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Uh-Oh: "The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit" -- Putting the DIE in Diversity Inclusion Equity
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The improvement in jetliner safety among U.S. commercial airliners since the 20th century is remarkable. Looking at this list of airliner fatalities, it appears that exactly one passenger has been killed in a big U.S.-owned Boeing or Airbus jetliner in the 20 years since the last catastrophic American passenger jetliner crash (in Queens in 2001).

But, you’ll be glad to know, some people are working on fixing that unbroken problem.

From the New York Times news section:

The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit

Airlines are struggling to find enough pilots and to diversify a profession that has been very resistant to change.

By Niraj Chokshi
April 23, 2022

It’s been a half-century since airlines started hiring women and people of color to fly passenger planes, allowing a handful of pioneering pilots into the flight deck.

In the decades since, commercial aviation has grown exponentially, democratizing travel and rewiring how Americans live, work and play. But one part of the industry has remained mostly the same. Piloting is stubbornly monolithic: About 95 percent of airline pilots in the U.S. today are male. Nearly as many are white.

Zakiya Percy is one of a small and growing number of people trying to change that.

Similarly, few black women used to write op-eds, and thus the crucial topic of hair-touching was criminally under-op-edisized. Obviously, we need more Zakiyas piloting jetliners in order to change the status quo. What was so bad about a few hundred, or a few thousand, passengers dying annually?

… Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks. The cost of training and the toll of discrimination can be discouraging, too. Now there’s urgency for the industry to act. Pilots are in short supply, and if airlines want to make the most of the thriving recovery from the pandemic, they will have to learn to foster lasting change.

“The pilot shortage for the industry is real,” Scott Kirby, the chief executive of United Airlines, told analysts and reporters on Thursday. “Most airlines are simply not going to be able to realize their capacity plans because there simply aren’t enough pilots, at least not for the next five-plus years.”

In other words, the CEO at United wants to pay lower salaries to pilots, so he’s willing to increase your risk of dying.

People are flying a lot these days, and pilots are not enthusiastic about their current pay in this inflationary era. I’ve been on a trip (which is why blogging has been slow — more about my trip later) and the outbound flight was notably delayed by the flight crew not showing up on time. I’d presume this was due to a mechanical problem, except the gate crew did not mention that reason.

I was reminded of when I got stuck in Ireland an extra day in June 1994 because the night before was the first game of the World Cup soccer tournament and little Ireland beat mighty Italy, the defending champion, on a fluke kick. I can attest that there was much celebrating in Ireland that night, and two days later the newspaper implied that the Aer Lingus crew had been still too drunk to fly the next day.

But, at least jetliners aren’t crashing.

Airlines have started to do more to diversify. …

As air travel became more popular in the 1970s and 1980s, airline advertisements almost exclusively depicted pilots as white men, with some exceptions in publications directed at Black consumers, said Alan Meyer, a history professor at Auburn University who is working on a book on the slow pace of racial integration in airline flight decks.

“It just continues to reinforce this image,” Dr. Meyer said. “This simultaneously plays into this often subconscious association between whiteness and maleness and technical competence.”

… Two years and about \$100,000. That’s what it takes, in most cases, to gather the experience necessary to qualify to become a commercial airline pilot.

In the winter of 2009, a Bombardier turboprop crashed, probably due to flight crew errors, killing virtually all aboard. The co-pilot, a 24-year-old woman, was being paid \$16k per year according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

Congressmen, who fly a lot, responded by raising the standards for passenger jet pilots. In the 13 years since, American passenger jetliner safety has been remarkably good.

But, higher safety standards have disparate impact.

After all, what have white American men ever accomplished in the field of aviation? I mean, besides the Wright Brothers, the DC-3, the Battle of Midway, the 707, and Apollo 11?

… Historically, the armed forces offered a less-expensive path into the field. But the military has long struggled with pilot diversity and shortages, too. Still, the Air Force has slowly improved diversity among active duty pilots: Today, about 8 percent of those pilots are women and about 13 percent are nonwhite. While nowhere near reflective of the American public, those figures are still better than the numbers for commercial airlines.

But the reason for racial inequality among pilots that is most commonly cited by experts and instructors is perhaps the most apparent: A lack of role models and exposure has played a central role in keeping many women and people of color out the field.

Similarly, there weren’t any blacks allowed in the NBA until 1950, so that’s why there are so few now.

Seriously, there are obvious tradeoffs with the airlines’ goal of not having to pay pilots as much, such as more planes crashing. But when the airline PR people frame the issue as discrimination against People of Intersectionality, such as Zakiya, the NYT goes brain-dead, even though NYT subscribers tend to fly a lot.

I bet Tucker Carlson flies a lot too.

I want to thank everybody who has contributed to my April fundraiser so far.

Here are nine ways for you to contribute to the April fundraiser:

First: Most banks now allow fee-free money transfers via Zelle.

Zelle is really a good system: easy to use and the fees are nonexistent.

If you have a Wells Fargo bank account, you can transfer money to me (with no fees) via Wells Fargo SurePay/Zelle. Just tell WF SurePay/Zelle to send the money to my ancient AOL email address steveslrAT aol.com — replace the AT with the usual @). (Non-tax deductible.) Please note, there is no 2.9% fee like with Paypal or Google Wallet, so this is good for large contributions.

Zelle contributions are not tax deductible.

Second: if you have a Chase bank account (or even other bank accounts), you can transfer money to me (with no fees) via Chase QuickPay/Zelle (FAQ). Just tell Chase QuickPay/Zelle to send the money to my ancient AOL email address (steveslrATaol.com — replace the AT with the usual @). If Chase asks for the name on my account, it’s StevenSailer with an n at the end of Steven. (Non-tax deductible.) There is no 2.9% fee like with Paypal or Google Wallet, so this is also good for large contributions.

Third, Zelle might work with other banks too. Here’s a Zelle link for CitiBank. And Bank of America.

Fourth: You can use Paypal (non-tax deductible) by going to the page on my old blog here. Paypal accepts most credit cards. Contributions can be either one-time only, monthly, or annual. (Monthly is nice.)

Fifth: You can mail a non-tax deductible donation to:

Steve Sailer
P.O Box 4142
Valley Village, CA 91617

I have no idea why somebody carefully hung this empty picture frame from a tree alongside the Fryman Canyon hiking trail, but I appreciate it, like I appreciate your support.

Sixth: You can make a tax deductible contribution via VDARE by clicking here.

Please don’t forget to click my name at the VDARE site so the money goes to me: first, click on “Earmark your donation,” then click on “Steve Sailer:”

This is not to say that you shouldn’t click on John’s fund too, but, please, make sure there’s a blue dot next to my name.

VDARE has been kiboshed from use of Paypal for being, I dunno, EVIL. But you can give via credit cards, Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin, check, money order, or stock.

Note: the VDARE site goes up and down on its own schedule, so if this link stops working, please let me know.

Seventh: send money via the Paypal-like Google Wallet to my Gmail address (that’s isteveslrATgmail .com — replace the AT with a @). (Non-tax deductible.)

Eight: You can send me Bitcoin. Bitcoin payments are not tax deductible.

Here’s my Bitcoin address:

1EkuvRNR86uJzpopquxdnmF23iA3vzdDuc

Here’s the OCR

Please let me know if this works, ideally by sending me Bitcoin. Or let me know what else you’d like to send me.

If you’re sending to a crypto address that belongs to another Coinbase user who has opted into Instant sends in their privacy settings, you can send your funds instantly to them with no transaction fees. This transaction will not be sent on chain, and is similar to sending to an email address.

Learn more about sending and receiving crypto.

Send off-chain funds

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Computer

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Obsolete: Below are links to two Coinbase pages of mine. But these don’t work anymore. I will try to fix them. This first is if you want to enter a U.S. dollar-denominated amount to pay me.

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This second is if you want to enter a Bitcoin-denominated amount. (Remember one Bitcoin is currently worth many U.S. dollars.)

Pay With Bitcoin (denominated in Bitcoins)

Ninth: I added Square [which is now Block] as a fundraising medium, although I’m vague on how it works. If you want to use Square, send me an email telling me how much to send you an invoice for. Or, if you know an easier way for us to use Square, please let me know.

 
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  1. Well, there’s the example of Atlas Air Flight 3591, which crashed near Houston in 2019. The proximate cause of the crash was pilot error by First Officer Jules Aska of Antigua, who appears to have been a consistent screwup who lied about his inexperience and repeated failures to complete training programs. But hey, he was diverse!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Air_Flight_3591

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Thanks: Paul Jolliffe
  2. Is Barbara Billingsley still around? Someone has to translate the Diverse Pilots’ passenger greetings.

  3. Total intolerance of lying, omission, deception and fanatic uncompromising truth telling is needed to change this insane PC world.

    In other words, we must be able to report ship and airline accidents due to affirmative action pilots. We must be able to report performance testing of “diverse” pilots. Ideally we should prove the dangers of affirmative action and thus abolish it altogether.

    https://sincerity.net/never-criticize-quotas/

    Affirmative Action & Quotas can’t be criticized. Thus “Diversity is strength” is unfalsifiable!

    Affirmative action diversity admissions and hires must never be criticized. Thus we cannot tell the damages caused by affirmative action, airline accidents, inept policing, physical weakness at army, etc.
    Affirmative Action & Quotas can never end: No matter how costly, unjust, damaging, or deadly1, They are not falsifiable within the Overton window of permitted discourse.

    Thus, for the truth to be known, we must insist on free #TrueSpeech, freedom to speak #HateFacts.

    “Affirmative action is that form of discrimination that discriminates against people because they are member of a more successful ethnic or racial group” [The Affirmative Action Hoax]2.(Video3)

    • Agree: Pop Warner, Kylie
    • Replies: @bomag
  4. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe inducing black guys to be pilots could be a good thing.
    Reasonably smart white guys with a pull towards edginess may see being a pilot as a cool way to make a living.
    Reasonably smart black guys may be pushed/pulled into “higher academic” BS.
    Maybe they see pilots as glorified bus drivers.
    (No slur there… I could not and would not attempt to drive an urban bus.)
    Being a pilot seems to involve combining intellectual stuff with tactile/kinetic stuff that blacks tend to be good at, on average.
    Diverting black dudes who aren’t really into a “science” career from “grievance studies” into flying might be a big win/win.

  5. J.Ross says:

    OT reports of massive famine migration out of Ethiopea (which in a complete surprise is suffering yet another famine) and Somalia (which probably wasn’t even trying). QUANGO aid stations help “refugee” weaponized-migration terrorists with food and supplies so that Western Europe can be totally destroyed.
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/famine-crisis-in-ethiopia-is-growing-as-worlds-attention-turns-to-ukraine-sask-born-aid-worker/

  6. Midnights says:

    I’m surprised they can still use the word ‘Cockpit’ to be honest.

    • Agree: bomag
  7. • Replies: @Charon
  8. Charon says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nypost/status/1517854873060098048

    Wikipedia periodically reviews articles and says: this is not anything people need to know about! So instead of revising them they just remove them completely.

    Job done ✔

  9. I suspect our NYT writer doesn’t really grasp how important technical competence is to flying safely.

    • Agree: Moses
  10. I frequently listen to a radio scanner… the two channels I listen to most are the 6/9 Precinct dispatch in Lower Manhattan (you get a very real sense of the crime situation), and LaGuardia Tower frequency (you get a good sense of aviation traffic during the pandemic).

    On the LGA frequency, not only are the vast majority of pilots white males, but so are the air traffic controllers. There are a couple of white female air traffic controllers, but as far as I can tell, no blacks, hispanics, south indians, or asians.

    On the other hand, there seem to be no white male dispatchers on the NYPD frequency. Most are black women, with a few hispanics and south indian males thrown in.

    Of course, I’m just using tone, vocabulary, and pronunciation to determine sex and race… but I’d wager that’s pretty accurate.

    Being an air traffic controller seems to me to be a difficult, stressful job that requires excellent spatial awareness. Police dispatcher? In NYC, incompetence may be desirable.

  11. iIn other words, the CEO at United wants to pay lower salaries to pilots, so he’s willing to increase your risk of dying.

    Steve, they need pilots BADLY, probably the most in 50 years or since the beginning of commercial aviation. BUT, they ARE paying very, very well and almost throwing money at the pilots.

  12. (Continued because Unz software keeps putting in [MORE] tags:)

    However, that doesn’t mean the airline corporate people aren’t the same woke Big Biz cowards you will see at the top of very big company. That’s what they are up to, the same old same old as all Big Biz – got to work with Big Gov, you know, after all, you might need more “CARES” Act money again some day.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  13. J.Ross says:

    Somewhat on-topic: what do the local aviation experts think about the Germans acquiring Chinooks?

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    , @Reg Cæsar
  14. They can get plenty of White men pilots and they are. It’s the best time to be in the business as it ever has, and young men know it’s a very quick career path compared to only 10 years ago, much less 20. Right now, the regional airlines are hurting for Captains in particular. The Kung Flu Panic 1-year lull in hiring First Officers ending a year ago means not enough have the airline (FAR Part 121) hours to upgrade.

    That crash on approach into Buffalo was a De Havilland Dash-8 (great airplane!) Yes it was crew error. There was also a factor of erroneous training, and the FAA was involved in that. The girl had commuted from Seattle overnight (not sure if it was the previous night), but that’s just what pilots do sometimes.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Adam Smith
  15. “Similarly, there weren’t any blacks allowed in the NBA until 1950, so that’s why there are so few now.”

    Steve, you sho’ ‘nuf one sly-ass muthafucka.

  16. The word on the streets and on the lips of pollsters is that Australia is about to re-elect a gender-conservative government that commands, if not demands, that only sperm combined with ovum may produce progeny!

    Along with that extreme spit-inflected invective, this full of hatred re-elected government, which is prepared to go along with bombing half the world if whatever idiot president yank’s elect says so, has also determined that chicks with dicks aren’t chicks, and also demanded respect for all points of view!

    Will the 5 eyes “alliance” continue or will Australia become a political outcast that only 98% of the earth’s population can agree with?

    Agree or disagree? State your position in comments.

    (Really hope Elon buys Youtube too and frees the comments)

  17. “But the reason for racial inequality among pilots that is most commonly cited by experts and instructors is perhaps the most apparent: A lack of role models and exposure has played a central role in keeping many women and people of color out the field.”

    Where is Captain Chris Rock when we need him?

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  18. Alden says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Pay is relative to where they live. Memphis NOLA airports relatively cheap cost of housing and living. East and west coasts airports high cost of living. There’s also increment raises. There are many many jobs such as teaching where it takes 10 years to go from the starting salary to the highest. Airline work is one of those jobs.

    Decades ago the airlines and the Pilots unions came to an agreement. Same pay and small raises to existing pilots but much lower pay to new comers. Who would get increment raises but would never achieve what the existing pilots made.

    Now the older higher paid pilots have retired. The unionized supermarkets did the same thing.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  19. That was no fluke, Ray always delivered in the big games

  20. Alden says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    When employers start screaming about labor shortages it means they plan to import even more non White immigrants to do the job.

  21. Desmond Tutu once joked that whenever he was flying with South African Airways, he could not help feeling a bit relieved when he heard that the captain was still speaking with an Afrikaans accent.

  22. Seriously, there are obvious tradeoffs with the airlines’ goal of not having to pay pilots as much, such as more planes crashing. But when the airline PR people frame the issue as discrimination against People of Intersectionality, such as Zakiya, the NYT goes brain-dead, even though NYT subscribers tend to fly a lot.

    You’re appealing to a higher class of readership than your own having a sense of self-preservation? Or you’re pretending to appeal to that class for your readership to spit on. Or something else?

    The higher class don’t read you. Your entre to the wider smorgasboard of elite readership is via Coulter. Already you’re tainted.

    The lower class readership are already aquainted with how much every system and institute of our former nations have been turned against us, why would you think we’d be especially tuned by collective capital’s fight against unionless pilots?

    Pilots, like the rest of us, need a hard working union in our corner. But: left vs right, blue vs red, spurious extreme vs instinctive reaction -> great TV

    Repeat, recycle, refresh.

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
  23. Unit472 says:

    Seems not only airline pilots but truck drivers, railroad crew even snowplow and school bus drivers are in short supply these days.

    The Air Force used to churn out a lot more pilots when we still had hundreds of KC-135’s to refuel the hundreds of B-52 , B-1’s C-5s , C-141 etc the military operated but now that we only operate a few dozen B-52’s. B-2s , B-1’s and C-17s the supply of ex-military. multi-engined jet pilots has shrunk too. It maybe the airlines don’t want ex fighter pilots as civil airliner pilots for the same reason J.B. Hunt doesn’t recruit failed NASCAR wannabes as truck drivers.

    The one thing that all these jobs do have in common is that you absolutely, positively have to show up on time and be ready and able to work your scheduled flight or trip. That may eliminate or scare off a lot of contemporary Americans who, while eager to make the money, are not so keen about taking on the responsibility of delivering people or goods to where they have to go after a brutal microaggression has hurt their feelings.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Anon
  24. usNthem says:

    It sure is comforting to know the FAA prioritizes having zakiyas on (I’m pretty sure that is the correct term) the flight deck rather than competence, skill and passenger safety. The last thing you want to see when boarding an aircraft are joggers or women in the cockpit.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  25. Here is a picture of the author. I am sure he has my interests as an American at heart.

  26. @Anonymous

    ‘…Diverting black dudes who aren’t really into a “science” career from “grievance studies” into flying might be a big win/win.’

    I no longer feel a need for solutions that will help blacks to ‘win.’ The Year of George ended that.

  27. Danindc says:

    Air Disasters is a great show that will re-enact crashes and give the cause and what was learned. There aren’t many black pilots overall but a few show up in this show.

    Do black people even want to push this initiative? Poll them anonymously.

    It reminds me of the black girl in the Bronx classroom who answered the question “what would happen if all the white peoples were gone” that “we’d be in big trouble.”

    If you were boarding flight and saw two black women in cockpit what would you do? My advice…”I left my baby at the gate!!”

  28. Ralph L says:

    How can they be short of pilots after a year+ of shutdowns? Did a big chunk of them retire early?

    Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks.

    So that’s the problem! Airplanes need more and better mirrors.

  29. I would have no hesitation whatsoever to fly with a black female pilot who has landed an F-18 on a carrier at night in bad weather.

  30. Not to worry.
    Before you know it, all those wymnx with penises will be second careering out of the Air Force. By then, passing for black will be a given in all of the ESG fields.
    Rest assured. Your pilot will be a throbbing sack of testosterone, with a few extra gallons in the ol’ IQ tank.

    BTW are there any reliable stats on attention spans for your basic, wack-job trannies?

  31. @International Jew

    Nor would any rational person (assuming no other relevant facts not in evidence), but the practical reality is that once an institution starts focusing on diversity in addition to competence in hiring, it always leads to reduced competence.

  32. In other words, the CEO at United wants to pay lower salaries to pilots, so he’s willing to increase your risk of dying.

    Bingo!

    BTW, you’ll know you’re screwed when a barely understandable Captain Gupta makes her pre-flight welcome announcement.

  33. Mike Tre says:

    Niraj Chokshi:

    My best friend is a pilot for United. He is guaranteed 70 flight hours a month (around 12k-14k per month) plus he can pick up more flights. The airline also offers lots of increased pay incentives. Two years ago they paid 1000’s of their pilots full pay just to stay home during the beginning of the kovid hysteria.

    While I am happy that my friend makes this kind of money (his road was a long and difficult one), I am not really shedding any tears for the commercial airline pilot workforce as a group. They make more and more money while flying becomes more and more of a negative experience.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  34. OT – Simon Tisdall in the Guardian – “we need to start WW3 now or face a catastrophe – namely Russia winning

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/the-awful-truth-is-dawning-putin-may-win-in-ukraine-the-result-would-be-catastrophe

    Sending weapons and best wishes is not enough. Conferring last week, western leaders debated providing security guarantees for Ukraine after the war. All well and good. But this war is happening now. Who will guarantee Ukraine’s survival in the possibly decisive next few weeks? Who, if push comes to shove, will move beyond training missions and provide direct, in-country military support?

    Good job Russia didn’t take that view over Iraq, Libya, Syria or Kosovo.

  35. tactile/kinetic stuff that blacks tend to be good at

    I could see that coming into its own in situations that call for improvization. Like outmaneuvering another plane when you both want to land on the same runway.

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Dmon
  36. “My first wife was ‘tarded, she’s a pilot now.”

    • LOL: megabar
  37. Arclight says:

    Articles like this always make me groan because although the writer likes to talk about the ‘struggles’ and ‘need for change’ to embrace diversity in a given industry that requires high levels of competence, I bet no one in any position of authority is the least bit concerned about it and are all too aware of why they lack the desired level of diversity.

    Just as transmania is a social contagion in which massive change is demanded of society to solve a non-existent problem, so is the cult of diversity uber alles. The default assumption that any profession that lacks proportional racial representation is in dire need of change is absurd and some cases extremely dangerous.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber, bomag
  38. @Achmed E. Newman

    My understanding is that the pay is bad, unless you are working for a big airline like United. (It’s almost like Hollywood or academia.) So, not only is the training expensive, one also has to spend a number of years making almost no money.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  39. pyrrhus says:

    Soon this will be yet another reason to not fly anywhere…

  40. Thea says:

    Fire related deaths increased after that Sotomayor ruling. Yes

  41. @Anonymous

    Being a pilot seems to involve combining intellectual stuff with tactile/kinetic stuff that blacks tend to be good at, on average.

    Anon, I sure hope that was deadpan.

    You want smarts, great spatial skills, calm nerves … and for flying around five hundred people, three days a week … conscientiousness.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  42. Travis says:

    Sadly the airlines fired hundreds of employees just last year for refusing to get inoculated with experimental non-sterilizing vaccines. Now they lack pilots , due to their own self destructive mandates and pushing pilots into early retirement to reduce their costs. Now they will find it difficult to find new pilots due to the decline in the number of whites under the age of 40.

    The number of potential white pilots has shrunk significantly since 1990, as the under 40 white population has declined by 30% since 1990. Back in 1990 we had 120 million whites under the age of 40. Today just 87 million whites are in this age cohort.

    The majority of white Americans are too old to be pilots. The number of potential white pilots under the age of 40 is declining rapidly each year. Twenty years ago we had 52 million whites under the age of 20. Today we have just 41 million whites under the age of 20, a decline of 20% in twenty years. The pool of potential white pilots is shrinking as the pool of non-whites increases. The airlines will have little choice but to select non-whites as pilots in the near future as we see the continued decline in the number of white Americans. We are running out of white people in America. The decline in the absolute number of whites is accelerating as white fertility continues to decline.

    • Agree: notsaying
  43. Separate airlines!

    Let’s just have “White Guy Air” and “Black Girl Air” and customers can choose.

    • Agree: Ben tillman, Slugsmagee
    • Thanks: Hangnail Hans
    • LOL: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Prester John
    , @AnotherDad
    , @res
  44. There are a whole lot more black mechanics now, maybe 1/3 of them actual Africans. We all know that it’s the White guys who are just plain better at that sort of work – by a long shot.

    I don’t think this will result in any more crashes right now, necessarily. What it means is there is a lack of ability “on the line” for these guys (still almost all guys) to figure out some problems quickly – it reverts to the usual deferrals (all legal) or quick R/R (remove/replace) and hoping for the problem to clear.

    It’s the hangar maintenance where you need the really detail-oriented guys as inspectors – again, you’re better off going White. They will see these electrical connecters that aren’t secured well and things like that which will often result in problems on the line at random times.

    The gist of it is, the passengers will suffer more delays from this, and the airlines will seem more “shoddy”.

    • Thanks: bomag
  45. TNC says:

    Plane crashes are certainly dramatic but I promise you that a plane load of people a day are smoked by medical diversity which is getting more and more real by the day

  46. Trinity says:

    I have seen Blacks literally fall asleep standing up.

  47. @AnotherDad

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/stupid-plane-tricks-2716623/

    When Michael Jordan grows up he is going to fly a 747 full of passengers under the Golden Gate bridge.

  48. All I could think of was the old saying “you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs”, with visions of airplanes as eggs falling from the sky. God give me strength!

  49. megabar says:

    Airline CEOs must realize that commercial liner crashes would be bad for their bottom lines.

    Therefore, a push for DIE pilots reveals that these people really believe this stuff.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @bomag
  50. Anonymous[101] • Disclaimer says:

    They hate your guts and want you dead.

    We see the same trend in many crucial fields. Your loved ones will die sooner than they needed to. Cures will not be found. Surgeries will go bad. And your loved ones will die in plane crashes that never needed to happen.

    So what? What are you gonna do about it? We all know the answer. Nothing. Well-behaved yuppies can’t handle this type of social conflict. They just give in and act as toadies to power. But the power in question wants them dead.

  51. Jack D says:
    @Polistra

    Meanwhile, what? Two aging dictators met with each other two weeks ago? Lukashenko is Putin’s last friend in the world. Putin keeps his security blanket (the nuclear football) close at all time. The American President has his own. They are terrifying and yet at the same time worthless because neither one dares to use it.

  52. usNthem says:
    @International Jew

    Based on that criteria, you’ll never have any concerns.

  53. mousey says:

    The sophistication of modern airline aviation would absolutely allow a remote pilot to be used for take-off and landing. During flight, the auto-pilot is used anyway. The only concern I have is if this was to be implemented, no decision makers would have skin in the game. I was fairly confident the pilots on the flights I have taken do not want to die and will use all their knowledge and skills to ensure this. If you have only remote pilots and mechanics making decisions, their focus won’t be as acute. It will be reduced to rule followers, and all of us have seen how bad this can be when TSA security and flight attendants are in rule enforcing mode and not accounting for current circumstances.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  54. Gamecock says:

    Zakiya Percy is one of a small and growing number of people trying to change that.

    Interviewer: So, Ms Percy, why do you want this job?

    Percy: I want to get rid of half your pilots.

    Interviewer: Wha? (chokes on coffee) Not the thrill of operating a large machine? Being up in the sky? Camaraderie?

    Percy: Camaraderie?!?! Hmmph. I hate your pilots. They are all white men.

    Interviewer: You know, pilots are hard to come by these days.

    Percy: Your problem, not mine.

    Interviewer: Ms Percy, do you know who Colin Kaepernick is?

  55. @AnotherDad

    Note that this is not an article titled “Feminists launch new female piloted airline” or “Black exec launches ‘Black Air’.”

    Articles like this–even in the way they are written–poke at the core of minoritarianism.

    Even the person piloting your airplane is not something that people should have a say in–even at a long remove–through the hiring standards and pipeline an airline uses and the airline people choose to fly. No “piloting” is a blob of goodies and women and “people of color” want their “fair share” of that blob. You–the customer? You *must* sit still and take it.

    This is the essence of minoritarianism:

    “You can not have your own stuff.” “You must let us loot you!”

    It’s omnipresent, from the whining about “restricted” country clubs, to demands for school busing, to not enough women in STEM, to “borders are racist!” You can not work or even exist for yourself–with your own people, with your own norms and culture. Same idea as the communists locking people into the “communist paradise” … just a bit more subtle and low key.

    “You must sit still let us loot you!”

    Minoritarianism is the ideology of the rapist, the parasite.

  56. If there’s a shortage of pilots it’s probably because it’s very expensive to train pilots, and of course the airlines are not taking on people as trainee pilots.

    A bit like doctoring, where the United States fills the gaps by importing doctors trained at the expense of taxpayers overseas.

    I would agree with whoever said that being an airline pilot is like being a glorified bus driver.

    Obviously the technical and theoretical knowledge and motor skills required is much, much greater, but once you have mastered it, then you would be looking at a future of 30 years of bus driving, only working horrific shifts and hours and traveling through multiple time zones, and eating horrific airline food, and sleeping in hotels, so not so great for a family man or even a dog owner.

    Far more bus drivers than airline pilots are killed in the line of duty, not in the USA, but in mountainous third world countries where torrential rain and landslides mess up the roads.

    • Thanks: Old Prude
  57. anonymous[770] • Disclaimer says:

    The color of the cockpit is a serious issue for Biden and liberals. It’s not simply about increasing diversity. Commercial pilots hold a lot of power in the middle of a political crisis. If the 2024 election is perceived to be fraudulent then conservative white commercial pilots will decide not to work. If enough of them don’t show up to work then commercial air travel will be mostly grounded.

    I am surprised liberals and the Biden White House haven’t tried to ease the way for pilots in South America to transfer certifications to the US and start flying domestic US routes.

  58. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The girl had commuted from Seattle overnight (not sure if it was the previous night), but that’s just what pilots do sometimes.

    She was making \$16k/yr (at that time, at least, flying a regional jet was a sort of semi-unpaid apprenticeship in order to get the necessary # of flight hours in order to get a real job with a national carrier) and couldn’t afford to stay in hotel so she had slept in the terminal the night before. That was not really conducive to being at your best the next day.

    The main blame goes to the pilot, who was an old white guy of the type who Steve thinks will keep us safe. He had failed 5 prior check rides and spent his time flirting with the copilot. The plane’s automated systems (the “stick shaker” and then the “stick pusher”) were begging him to put the nose down which anyone who has ever had a flying lesson or even played flight sim knows is the way to recover from a stall but he overrode the systems and tried to pull up, which only worsens the stall.

    Very often you will buy a ticket on a major carrier – let’s say you are flying Buffalo-Paris and you think that United is flying you the whole way. But the first leg of the flight – Buffalo to Newark – will be labelled as “United Express” or something like that and if you read the fine print on your ticket, you are not really flying on United at all. They have subcontracted the first leg of your flight to some 2nd level operator like “Air Wisconsin”.

  59. Corvinus says:

    “But, you’ll be glad to know, some people are working on fixing that unbroken problem”

    Classic iSteve fear porn. Must be the home stretch of tin cup narratives. I have a Sailerian hunch he was inspired by one of his alleged fan boys, because he already addressed this “issue”—Fox News’ Tucker Carlson, for example, claimed training more minority candidates would lead to lower aviation standards and “get people killed.”

    So somehow with more darkies and womyn in the cockpit of a jumbo jet, we can undoubtedly expect a rise in crashes. No proof required, just speculation. And if there is an accident involving a newly trained, bet your life that Mr. Sailer will be there for his unparalleled brand of NOTICING.

    “In other words, the CEO at United wants to pay lower salaries to pilots, so he’s willing to increase your risk of dying”

    Sweeping generalization. Of course, Occam’s Razor applies here to refute this notion—the same level of training by instructors, the same accreditation put forth, coupled with regular maintenance checks on the ground, will continue to result in the high safety record of airplane travel in the States.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084390214/few-women-of-color-are-pilots-united-airlines-flight-school-is-changing-that

    Furthermore, the larger issue that Mr. Sailer ought to be addressing from a populist position are the factors for the shortage of pilots.

    https://skift.com/2022/03/15/u-s-airlines-grapple-with-having-no-easy-fixes-for-pilot-shortages/amp/

    “There is an enormous pool of qualified candidates that will make excellent pilots that haven’t had the opportunity to go to flight school because it costs money,” United Chief Financial Officer Gerry Laderman said Tuesday. United and partner J.P. Morgan will partially the cover the cost of training but, even with that help, expenses total more than \$70,000.

    Many have blamed the U.S. shortage on the high training costs and low wages new pilots often receive at airlines. Carriers are working to address the latter through new labor contracts and hiring bonuses and retention incentives. Pilots at United affiliate CommutAir recently ratified a contract with a 32 percent wage increase for first officers.”

  60. Back when I was a glider pilot, I was told that the reason there were so few women around — and we would have loved to have fly-babes join the party — was that once a woman has experienced a scary moment in flying, she is done.

    See, the whole point of flying is that you have the cojones to deal with scary emergencies. Because that’s what it takes to be a maaan. See Sully Sullenberger.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  61. Trinity says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Once in the air the plane nearly flies itself.

  62. Jack D says:

    The only thing that is missing from Steve’s premise is any statistical evidence that black pilots or female pilots are worse than white male pilots. Is there any?

    Chances are that even in an era of greater DIEversity, at least one of the pilots in the cockpit will still be a white male.

    Plus modern jets have highly automated systems that work MOST of the time. The way modern planes get into trouble is usually that (A) some important sensor has gone bad or some unusual condition (e.g. icing, engine failure) has occurred and (B) there is usually a textbook solution even after the bad condition has occurred, but BOTH pilots are unable to figure out what is really wrong and/or apply the proper solution.

    So, before you get to the point where Shawnikra is going to kill you, there have to be two major failures ahead of her. As long as there is at least one competent pilot in the cockpit, your chances are pretty good.

  63. anon[659] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s always good to see Steve get passionate about an issue (strangely, it seems that leading all public intellectuals for a quarter-century in analyzing the real reasons for Western decline leads to a certain detached tone much of the time).

    But let’s face it: we always knew this particular intersection of affirmative action and transportation safety, two longstanding interests of this columnist, was coming. I’m surprised the Air Force has managed to get to 8% women in piloting. Just that must require significant compromise and it isn’t even an overt black issue.

  64. @Anonymous

    Coolness under pressure and humility/cooperation when dealing with co-pilots also seem pretty integral to the job.

    Don’t need the kinds of people doing the job who feel they have something to prove.

  65. Seneca44 says:

    “the outbound flight was notably delayed by the flight crew not showing up on time”

    The last three flights I have taken in 2022 have all been delayed because they could not get the luggage on the plane in time! Had to wait an hour at a moderately sized French airport for baggage because they only had two guys in the entire baggage department. I could have walked the 100 feet to the plane and retrieved my own bag in about five minutes. Good help is hard to find…

  66. “Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks.”

    Similarly, before the blues and jazz were invented, it was impossible to see oneself in their numbers. That’s why blues and jazz don’t exist and rock & roll, which appropriated the ideas of blues and jazz, is so popular, male and white.

    I guess what I’m saying is if I can’t see myself in a Gucci tracksuit, sipping Cristal in a jacuzzi in the back of a Lamborghini, it’s because of systemic racism and I’m going shoot up this place until I manifest my dreams.

  67. @Jack D

    So, before you get to the point where Shawnikra is going to kill you, there have to be two major failures ahead of her. As long as there is at least one competent pilot in the cockpit, your chances are pretty good.

    Plus the pilots have checklists for everything, so it’s not like they have to remember how to deal with all situations. Right engine goes out – pull out the Engine Failure Checklist and start going through it.

    This is just more of the Whitey be keepin’ de Black peepul down explanation for why blacks don’t do complicated things as well as whites. I worry about POC doctors more than POC pilots, because there is usually no white co-doctor to straighten things out.

    • Agree: James Speaks
    • Replies: @Ralph L
    , @HammerJack
  68. Danindc says:

    “The main blame goes to the pilot, who was an old white guy of the type who Steve thinks will keep us safe”

    Yes, stupid Sailer…he thinks they’ll keep us 100% safe when it’s really 99.9999. Gtfo

  69. Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks

    This stupid cope always makes me laugh. How often do you actually get a good view of the cockpit crew? When I’m getting off the plane, I’m usually concerned about getting the hell off instead of the crew’s demographics.

    This viewpoint operates on the assumption that Oppressed Americans are so retarded, if they don’t see someone who looks like them in a certain field, they assume it means they “aren’t allowed.” These are children we are dealing with. Ignorant children think like this. It seems that white men are the only actual adults in the room, which is why they’re able to become pilots instead of whiny children with a pulpit.

    “This simultaneously plays into this often subconscious association between whiteness and maleness and technical competence.”

    It’s subconscious because it’s true, and I’m sick of pretending otherwise. Git gud or stop complaining, boy

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  70. If “diversity” is real, why can’t researchers identify a single skill or aptitude that one group has significantly more of than another group?

    How are female black pilots inherently different from white male pilots? Inquiring minds want to know the stereotyping embraced.

    “Diversity” and “equity” are counterfeit civil rights.

  71. @Jack D

    Way go to Polistra, you managed to pry an off-topic comment out of the laconic Jack D, holder of strong opinions on, and expert in, every subject under the sun. Jack has only 3 of the 24 comments (as of 8am Pacific) on this thread. The strong, silent type, that Jack.

    Agree: Johann Ricke

  72. LP5 says:

    Self-flying planes can’t be too far away.
    McKinsey or some other clever firm will propose that to deal with pilot shortages.
    Seriously, keep them far away.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  73. @Achmed E. Newman

    This topic is perhaps best debated by “da guys” (yes, mainly) over at Professional Pilots Rumor Network (pprune.org). It appears un-Woke thoughts can be discussed over there, but the moderation they have going does not suffer fools (persons without deep knowledge about flying airplanes).

    That said, the impression I have is that there are three tracks to becoming an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) in the US. The first is to build up flying hours in the armed services. The second is to build up flying hours (at very low pay) as teaching weenies like me to fly an airplane, and I helped one guy that way. The third is to enroll at an institution such as Embry-Riddel Aeronautical University, which is kind of like paying medical school tuition out of your own pocket for a profession that may not pay quite as well as being a doctor, but YMMV.

    Part of this system may be working at low pay for a Regional Carrier — used to be turbo-props but most of them fly those regional jets. I guess the theory is that a very low time aspiring airline pilot risks only killing themself, a student pilot weenie and maybe a couple of people living in cheap rental housing surrounding the airport. A somewhat more experienced regional-carrier pilot is only in charge of a small aircraft. The big jets of the major carriers are only piloted by guys with a lot of flying time.

    Carriers of our major first-world trading partners don’t do that. Some of them (cough, Lufthansa, cough), run their own flight academies, putting by US standards low flight time graduates of those academies into the seat of a highly automated Airbus. There has been a great deal of discussion at pprune.org about the pros and cons of that approach, including the low-time pilots at the controls of Air France flight 447 that crashed when the automatics on an A-340 Airbus “threw up its robotic hands and went offline” in a thunderstorm.

    Then there are the second and third world national airlines (are we no longer allowed to say third world outside of iSteve these days?, OK, developing countries). There has been tons of discussion and arguments offered at pprune.org about the 737Max tragedies, which yes, involved a hardware failure just as with AF447 along with, yes, a serious design flaw with that plane and also second and third world air crews.

    The 737Max accidents are different from the AF447 Airbus accident because 1) reasons and 2) there were two crashes. I guess it is sort of like the “one bite rule” of being a dog owner. If you get sued a first time for your dog biting a neighbor, the defense in court is “I had no idea my dog bites people!” If you get sued a second time, you better hope you have enough insurance and even then, you might be in serious financial trouble. Airbus got the one crash to sort out the problem and fix it, either by modifying their airplanes or issuing new training procedures. Boeing having two crashes and then Donald Trump bowed to public pressure to in turn pressure the FAA to ground the MAX put the hurt on Boeing.

    As far as Boeing, I don’t want to hear yet another weenie say that “the MAX was an old design on which Boeing cut corners and should have come up with an entirely new design.” Let’s leave Boeing’s liability at the aviation version of the one-bite rule for dogs.

    That said, there was a lot of discussion over at pprune.org on whether a US airline pilot would have had the presence of mind to flip off the correct switches to prevent a MAX from crashing, and there was indeed a senior, training captain of a second-world airline who saved one of the MAX’s that way, indeed the same airplane that crashed on a later flight. It was pretty second-worldly of that airline, however, that they didn’t gather all of their other pilots in a come-to-Jesus-before-Jesus-comes-for-you session with that training captain to spread the word on this near crash. They were also pretty lackadaisical from a maintenance standpoint about checking the gizmo (an angle-of-attack indicator — the vane-on-a-stick attached to the nose you may have seen looking out the window waiting to board your plane).

    There was a lot of discussion about whether or not you can get away with a third-world, second-world, or Lufthansa shake-and-bake academy graduate because planes or so heavily automated these days. Airlines tend to take a don’t-scare-the-passengers approach of not telling their customers more than they need to know, and it appeared Boeing took a don’t-scare-the-airline-crew approach to not telling pilots what they needed to know after the first MAX crash.

  74. Steve isn’t it time you went out and got yourself a real job instead of continually begging for money on the Internet?

    • Replies: @Danindc
  75. Steve,
    I’ll donate money if you make a blog post on this article that was posted in the Unz Review aggregated news links…
    https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/ball-testicle-tanning-far-right-tucker-carlson-1339809/
    …and call Steven Pinker “stale pale balls Pinker”.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  76. Mike Tre says:
    @Jack D

    “Lukashenko is Putin’s last friend in the world.”

    Did Putin tell you this in a Zoom therapy session?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  77. But the military has long struggled with pilot diversity and shortages, too

    This reminds me of the following scene from Office Space

  78. Jomoga says:

    I’ll support this when they press for greater white representation in the NBA.

  79. Dmon says:
    @International Jew

    LOL. Looking forward to Steve’s 2024 column on the dramatic rise in “air rage” incidents and fly-by shootings.

  80. This project (and thread) should end well.

  81. @Jack D

    But the first leg of the flight – Buffalo to Newark – will be labelled as “United Express” or something like that

    In what I’m sure is not a coincidence, this particular flight was a connecting flight and it went from Newark to Buffalo.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  82. Jack D says:
    @William Badwhite

    I am not going to allow the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin to sprinkle their bullshit into other threads. It would be one thing if they were trolling but they really believe that Putin is the sort of stronk white leader that the West needs.

    Peak Putin was perhaps circa 2010 – he had made lucrative gas pipeline deals with Germany, had the ex-German Chancellor Schroeder on his payroll (and who knows what Kompromat he had on Merkel from her E. German days), did topless rides on a horse to show off his physique, etc. He should have quite while he was ahead, but there is no retirement scheme for aging dictators. Since the first invasion of Donetsk it has all gone bad – shooting down civilian airliner, sanctions, the rigged Olympics, etc. but he has only doubled down on failure as time have taken their toll on his mind and body.

    At least he has an excuse. What is the Putinist’s excuse?

  83. Jack D says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Yes, that one was Colgan Air (now out of business – these regional carriers come and go because the majors rig their contracts to be ALMOST profitable but not enough to keep the regionals in business when there is a downturn) flying as “Continental Connection”. The planes BTW are always painted as “Continental Connection” or “United Express” or whatever, thus furthering the illusion that you are flying on a major carrier.

    It should be understood that the regional carriers are in part a byproduct of the airline pilots unions – the majors would fly their own routes but then their pilot’s union would demand that the regional pilots get major airline wages which are not feasible on a 40 seat jet.

  84. tyrone says:
    @Jack D

    Lukashenko is Putin’s last friend in the world.

    …..what’s Steven Seagal ,chopped liver?…..OK maybe a little.

  85. We were all warned about this very situation by Ayn Rand in “Atlas Shrugged”, its real and it’s here.

    • Thanks: Muggles
  86. @Corvinus

    On the other hand, isn’t the definition of insanity repeating the same action but expecting a different outcome?

    How many times do you want to repeat the same pattern of aggressively promoting minority hires and experiencing poor results? If you hire your pilots, doctors, or anything else on the basis of skin color rather than aptitude and proficiency, you will see a decline in performance.

    What’s hard to figure out about that? And worse: unlike as with the tax professional or whatever, in this case, as a practical matter the consumer cannot avoid putting himself at the mercy of the minority hire, and the results may prove fatal.

  87. Rich says:
    @Jack D

    He was “flirting” with the co-pilot? Are you seriously disturbed? Is that what you picked up from the black box? Old White guys invented flight, Copernicus. They’ve been involved in aviation since day 1. Have you ever driven in or around black neighborhoods? They can’t even pilot a Cadillac, let alone a jet. I don’t think I’ve ever met a decent black driver, that high yellow named Hamilton who raced cars out of England is probably the only decent race car driver they ever produced. Maybe that’s the plan, get all the young mulattoes and train them to fly? Trouble is, the White genes they inherit aren’t usually all that top-notch, either. The type of White person who ends up with black children is usually on the low end of White intelligence levels. The smarter blacks are usually from the upper classes in Africa, and they become doctors or bankers, not pilots.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @mikeInThe716
    , @Jack D
  88. ‘…On Tuesday, the company vowed to enact racial quotas when hiring pilots.

    “Over the next decade, United will train 5,000 pilots who will be guaranteed a job with United, after they complete the requirements of the Aviate program — and our plan is for half of them to be women and people of color,” United CEO Scott Kirby said in a media release…’

    If they actually follow through with this, this seems reasonably likely to result in more marginal pilots, and therefore, a greater likelihood of a crash.

  89. @Polistra

    Can we not do this? Pretend the Russia/Ukraine thing has much of anything to do with what ails the US, the West?

    I’m as guilty–probably more so–in taking the bait. Let’s all just … not? It’s a thought.

    Steve, still suggesting a regular daily/weekly “War-on-the-other-side-of-the-world” thread to soak up everyone’s–apparently passionate–feelings about “over there”.**

    **Passionate feelings about Korea, Taiwan, Tibet, East Timor, Burmese tribal whatever, Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Nogorno Karabakh, the Kurds, Sunnis +Shia, Yemen, Somaliland, Eritrea, South Sudan, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Congo, Western Sahara, Algeria, Libya, Lebanon and of course the always fertile Israel/Palestine … could be aired as well.

  90. 3g4me says:
    @AnotherDad

    @20 Another Dad: Well said. Which is why you do NOT compromise with such evil. You don’t try to debate or reason with those who hate you and want you dead. You separate from them – and until one can do so proudly in meatspace, you do so intellectually and socially. So you don’t debate (online or in person) people who think things can be worked out, or voting matters. You don’t watch their tv or movies or read their books. You don’t join their clubs. You don’t socialize with neighbors who parrot their anti-White slurs. You don’t send your children to their schools. You don’t invite relatives to dinner who swim in the anti-White sea. Knowing who your people are is insufficient. Everything you do ought to be through the prism of “What is best for my people?”

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
  91. Sam McGowan says: • Website

    I am a retired professional pilot; my career dates back to 1975 when I left the military and ended in 2011 when I was prescribed medication that the FAA doesn’t approve for pilots. During that time I knew and flew with several female pilots and knew a mere handful of black pilots. Some of the female pilots were competent, some were not. I had one once try to kill us I believe – she left the rudder lock in on our airplane. Later on she almost did kill herself when she took off in a light plane with the rear stick tied with the seatbelt. I understand the airplane went straight up then straight down. I knew one woman – who later got on with the airlines – who couldn’t land. When I was instructing, I had a female student who was excellent, but after I turned her over to my other instructor she freaked out while flying solo one day due to confusion over a radio frequency and had to be talked down by a tower controller. I recall once reading an article about the higher accident rate among young women in Air Force pilot training – they seemed to have a tendency to fly into high terrain.

    I can’t comment on black pilots. Although I’ve known a few, I’ve never flown with one. The Houston Atlas crash is a good example of how race becomes a factor in pilot training. Wait a minute, I did fly with an African pilot in simulator training. He worked for the government in an African nation. The man was so bad that the instructor had to keep backing the simulator up so he could get an acceptable landing and be signed off as competent for his US licence. How he got one is beyond me.

    • Thanks: J.Ross
  92. Anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    The first female pilot:

    airline advertisements almost exclusively depicted pilots as white men, with some exceptions in publications directed at Black consumers

    I wonder, do black flyers want black pilots? From what I’ve seen, well-off black professional athletes, musicians, and actors seem weirdly to prefer white managers, accountants, and lawyers. I’d bet that they prefer white doctors also.

    Here’s Emil Kirkegaard on women in the police and military:

    As women increasingly are hired into traditionally male jobs via affirmative action laws or indirect pressure via media, we see more and more incompetence. This is true whether it is academia, the military or the police. Here’s a funny example from Norway a few years ago. The Norwegian navy was recruiting more women and celebrating their great success …

    [Fast forward: frigate staffed with three female navigators collides with an oil tanker and sinks]

    Interestingly, the apparently only male navigator on board, the commanding officer, was asleep when the mistakes were made. The Navy is hiding the names of who were where, so we can only guess at whether everybody involved was a woman, but according to the numbers above, where 4 out of 5 were women, and knowing the CO was asleep, it would appear 100% were female.

    https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2022/01/too-many-women-in-the-wrong-places-norwegian-navy-edition/

    KIrkegaard goes on to dig up research showing that you don’t want women as navigators.

  93. JimDandy says:
    @Corvinus

    Thanks. And while we’re at it, we need a lot more black female neurosurgeons, too. Not someday–NOW!

  94. @Jack D

    I am not going to allow the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin to sprinkle their bullshit into other threads.

    Well hopefully Art Deco doesn’t object to you horning in on his self-appointed hall monitor role.

    It would be one thing if they were trolling but they really believe that Putin is the sort of stronk white leader that the West needs.

    More mind-reading.

    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
    , @Jack D
  95. What up, passengers, this is Zakiya,
    Yo pilot from here to Korea.
    Korea my goal,
    ’Cause Korea got Seoul!
    We gone make it, I guaran-damn-tee ya!

    • Thanks: Gary in Gramercy
  96. @J.Ross

    OT reports of massive famine migration out of Ethiopea (which in a complete surprise is suffering yet another famine) and Somalia (which probably wasn’t even trying). QUANGO aid stations help “refugee” weaponized-migration terrorists with food and supplies so that Western Europe can be totally destroyed.

    Thanks Mr. Ross. This is only about 5 orders of magnitude more important than Putin’s War in Ukraine.

    My kids’/grandkids’/posterity’s future–already severely degraded from what it should have been–is utterly dependent on whether America/the West is able to regain sanity and destroy the “nation of immigrants” yappers, or whether we get buried by Steve’s “World’s Most Important Graph”.

    • Agree: bomag, Paul Jolliffe
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  97. Anon[698] • Disclaimer says:

    Some background on the career path of a typical Big Plane Long Distance Airline Pilot. This covers the civilian path only.

    1) get a private plane license as a teenager
    2) build hours through either teaching flying or flying some low rent cargo at night to sh*tty airports in nowhereville ( this used to be flying paper checks at night but that gig is over )
    3) once one has accumulated thousands of hours plus gained all sorts of advanced certificates, then maybe one can get extremely lucky and snag a co-pilot spot at a regional airline ( that \$16k/year gig)
    4) after a few years of flying the regional airline and getting super lucky with seniority, one claws up to being a Pilot at the regional airline. All the time you are accumulating hours and trying to up your certifications and networking like a cheap whore……
    5) Finally, a spot opens up at a real airline for the bottom of the barrel co-pilot position flying some regional sized airliner on some sh*thole Route. 100 others apply for the same spot – those with most flight hours, most certs, and a bunch of other hard data driven experience get a chance to try.
    6) a few years and thousands of flight hours later – a senior pilot retires and there is a chain reaction of promotions. If you lucked out in seniority and flight hours – you get bumped up to maybe flying the Atlanta- Chicago – Minneapolis route.

    And more of this until ….

    • Replies: @Alden
  98. bomag says:
    @Jack D

    Peak Putin was perhaps circa 2010….

    Seems to be a thing with the dictator class; roughly eight years of beneficial rule, then the deluge.

    Reminds me of the Enoch Powell adage: “all political lives… end in failure.”

  99. Obviously, if the Great God Diversity is more important than protecting children from sexual exploitation, it’s also more important than airline safety.

  100. Danindc says:
    @Joe Walker

    Joe there needs to be an outlet for sane and curious men on the internet. Don’t begrudge Steve or his followers. You have Reddit and Bill Kristol. Fair is fair.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Thanks: Inquiring Mind
  101. @William Badwhite

    He is. If Putin were eligible to run for President of the USA, he’d have my vote.
    And no, he didn’t shoot down any civilian airliners. Ukie psychos did that.

  102. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I am not going to allow the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin to sprinkle their bullshit into other threads.

    Your own peculiar monomania on the subject of the war in Ukraine has not gone unnoticed, either. You have been banging on about what a great lot the Ukrainians are forever.

    (At least, it seems like forever, anyway.)

    It would be one thing if they were trolling but they really believe that Putin is the sort of stronk white leader that the West needs.

    Do you really believe the Ukrainians are the sort of people the West needs?

    As bad as Putin has been, the conduct of the Ukrainians has been such that they have managed to make Putin seem like a bargain in comparison. It has become obvious by now there isn’t a lie they won’t tell or an atrocity they won’t commit in an effort to put the Russians in a bad light and drag the West into the misfortune they themselves largely created.

    Before this war started, I would have thought it impossible for anyone to make Putin look good. The Ukrainians, however, have managed to pull it off. Impressive.

  103. Tucker says:

    This article reminded me of an incident that I read about that happened several years ago – which involved Ann Coulter.

    If memory serves me correctly, Coulter was boarding a commercial airplane and the door to the cockpit was open and she glanced in and saw one or two of these ‘Affirmative Acti0n’ black pilots sitting in the pilot’s seats. Apparently, Coulter had previously enjoyed a few cocktails in the airport lounge – and freaked out. and loudly announced to the flight crew that she had no desire or intention to board a plane and, risk her life, that was being piloted by AA hired pilots.

    As I recall, she got off the plane and b0oked another flight.

    As a side note, I can vaguely remember only one incident where I boarded a plane (it was a smaller plane, one of those puddle jumpers) and was shocked to see that one of the pilots was black. The other pilot was White, so I crossed my fingers and buckled myself in – still very uneasy and unsure of whether I was making a mistake that would cost me my life. So, I fully share the same concerns as Ann Coulter – as should every other individual who decides to fly commercially.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  104. bomag says:
    @SiNCERITY.net

    That’s the thing that has made DIE-ing feasible: installed and tested excuse-making protocols.

    You can point out that the emperor has no clothes, but an accepted explanation has been generated and installed in a critical mass of our media outlets.

  105. Many many years ago I heard, “if there isn’t at least one White man at the controls of your flight, get off!”

    The Navy EP-3 off Hainan Island in 2001 would have gone down without a man’s muscle at the yoke.

  106. @megabar

    Airline CEOs must realize that commercial liner crashes would be bad for their bottom lines.

    It won’t be bad for their bottom lines if everyone can be forced to do it at the same time, so that competition and customer choice cannot reward the better and punish the worse.

    This is why it must be done by diktat from The New York Times editorial desk or the Federal executive rather than through old fashioned innovation, competition, and improvement.

    • Agree: Mike Tre, HammerJack
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @megabar
    , @Rob
  107. US commuter airlines pay 30k/yr for first officers and about 38k/yr for captains. With the routes they fly, it’s much harder to build hours since you’re doing turnarounds in cleaveland or whatever every 70 minutes of flight time while a 60 year old United captain is booking 14 hours per landing going from LAX to Singapore.

    Emirates will pay the same white boy US pilot 300k starting. I know guys who have gotten offers from Chinese airlines equalling 450k/yr. For guys who just got their ATP. It seems the rest of the world vastly prefers to have a clean cut white man with a drawling voice in the cockpit and is willing to pay a premium for it. The hard-ass standards for airman qualification both under the DoD and FAA mean that native grown airmen are a major commodity more corrupt countries will pay a big premium to get their hands on.

    So does United et al allocate higher salaries? Invest in synthetic trainers or a network of farm schools to help pilots avoid starting out 240k in debt while making 30k a year? Even push Boeing to automate and innovate so the second seat isn’t necessary?

    Naw, just cut standards and higher woke agitators, what could go wrong?

    I will say I have seen more women entering the pipeline over the last 10 years, and most of them have been absolute smokeshow dimepiece South American bombshells, so maybe it’s not all bad.

    • Thanks: Alden, Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  108. Why is there such a shortage of black male midwives?

    It seems to me like the shortage of black female pilots is only an issue (for a few people) because this is seen as a very well paid, glamorous, and somewhat prestigious job rather than as an occupation that is extremely stressful and tedious at the same time.

    I suspect that the majority of airline pilots come from reasonably well-off families who are helping them out financially during their student years, and probably that does work against black men and women becoming airline pilots.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  109. Perhaps the Airlines could have a little video display on the check-in desk. Just so we can check that Your Pilot Today; Shitavious Washington isn’t a Dane.
    You can’t trust these Danes.

    It does present a problem for the airlines. Do they heavily promote the DIE versity of their cockpits and win Wokel points, or do they keep their mouths shut and actually sell tickets?

  110. JimDandy says:
    @Jack D

    Lukashenko is Putin’s last friend in the world.

    Now you’re just being a meanie, Jack. How do you think the not-deposed leader of Syria feels when you say things like that? And what about that lil blonde gal causing all the fuss in France?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  111. @LP5

    Self-flying planes can’t be too far away.
    McKinsey or some other clever firm will propose that to deal with pilot shortages.
    Seriously, keep them far away.

    Self flying planes are already here. Have been for a while.

    Being an aircraft pilot is a significantly more mentally challenging task than driving a car because of three dimensions and the raft of the systems required for that 3rd dimension–and managing the other two without steerable wheels and brakes.

    But keeping track of the operation of 100 systems instead of 10 and following a course is something that computers do really, really well. And once you’re up flying the sky is well … sky! (My dad let me take the yoke and fly on several occasions, long before i was allowed behind the wheel of our Ford.)

    While on the ground you have gal right in front who keeps stepping on/off the brake like she’s looking to turn somewhere? and the guy up ahead at the liquor store whose itching to bolt into traffic, and even on your suburban street, there’s the kid running in his front yard and “where did his ball go?” and the girl glued to her cell phone who looks like she’s about to step off the curb. Much more “human” and complicated interpretation.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  112. @Almost Missouri

    This is why it must be done by diktat from The New York Times editorial desk or the Federal executive rather than through old fashioned innovation, competition, and improvement.

    Spot on.

    The essence of minoritarianism. You must not be allowed to choose. You must not be allowed to say “no”.

    • Agree: Alden
  113. Anonymous[658] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Incorrect. Its more akin to Passing in football or Free throw shooting, both hand eye coordination where blacks struggle relative to whites far less the intense concentration and sangfroid when problems arise.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  114. @Jack D

    the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin

  115. @Rich

    “Flirting” may be too strong a word. But yes, the male pilot was chit-chatting with the female co-pilot below 10K feet, in icing conditions, during landing prep. And when this pilot-idiot got into a stall situation, he panicked, made the stall worse and flew into the ground.

    • Replies: @Rich
  116. @Colin Wright

    the consumer cannot avoid putting himself at the mercy of the minority hire

    If customer can select his seat, meal, etc. online then he should be able select a choice of crew. Pilot “Maverick” Mitchell would sellout every time.

    For that matter, it’s ridiculous how school districts get away with dispatching kids to schools that nobody wants to attend, assigning them to credentialed babysitters who parents wouldn’t entrust to watch their pets, etc. Only the most hands-on, politically savvy moms (I once met one) are able to successfully navigate their kids through that veritable mine field.

  117. SafeNow says:

    I boarded a major carrier, looked to my left into the open cockpit door, and there in the left seat sat a black pilot. The diminutive DEI part of my brain swelled with joy. Short-lived. When he came on the intercom, he couldn’t wait to say that he had put the ATC audio on channel whatever, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other passenger-hostile wisecracks occurred during the flight. There are some people you expect to be serious, and not sarcastic, and not manifest a hostile attitude; my surgeon and airline pilot come to mind.

    The comments above have focused on technical expertise. I am adding to that the question of emotional mindset. Ever since Tenerife, much attention has focused on intra-cockpit cooperation. A commenter above suggested, don’ t worry, LeMichael will be crewing with Skip. But what if LeMichael has an attitude? It will be suppressed during training, but my worry is that it will re-emerge later.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  118. Military aviation is up a creek as well, although not as bad as civil flying, and appearing to be making significant course corrections. The Streetfighter program with the USAF is looking to return street to seat training times far aviators down to about 14 months, currently it can easily run to 36 months, often with weeks in between flights so your skills degrade. We were training business majors to fly F4s in 14 months during Vietnam, and the complexity and workload on a F4 pilot dwarfs what modern aviators have to contend with, so it’s definitely possible. That drop in training time reduces your overall service requirement significantly, which is the big drawback to military aviation.

    Ideally, we would see a big expansion of the Air National Guard, maybe even at the expense of the active Air Force, since you can afford 3 guard squadrons for every one active squadron. Then we would have a much larger pool of the highest trained pilots available mostly full time for airliner work, who can’t be poached by other countries. And when a real shooting war kicks off you would be able to crew and operate 3x as many aircraft than under the current model.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  119. @AnotherDad

    ADad…we’re getting a little worried about you. Seriously, what’s this obsession you have with minotaurs?!

  120. @Achmed E. Newman

    “(Continued because Unz software keeps putting in [MORE] tags:)”

    Unz software doesn’t place MORE tags – the bloggers do that as a form of censorship, especially when a commenter is more perceptive and interesting than the blogger. The MORE tag is a badge of honor, a far greater honor than those old gold boxed comments bestowed upon servile blogger buttlickers.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  121. Jack D says:
    @Rich

    Renslow drew laughter from Shaw with flirty comments like “Whee! This is fun,” during takeoff, and a warning not to be “dyslexic” when getting orders from air traffic control. He also mimicked accents of southern controllers.

    At another point, Shaw quipped, “I’m assuming we’re only going to land once.”

    Throughout the flight, Renslow and Shaw appeared to violate the “sterile cockpit” rule, which forbids all extraneous conversation to keep pilots focused on their tasks.

    https://nypost.com/2009/05/13/blabbing-their-way-to-icy-doom/

    • Replies: @Rich
  122. AceDeuce says:

    Then there’s Auburn Calloway, the negro FedEx pilot, who, fearing he was going to be fired, hitched a ride on a FedEx plane headed back to Memphis (HQ), and hijacked the aircraft to crash it, hoping to make the crash look like an accident so his “fambly” could get insurance money. To that end, he brought hammers and a spear gun to attack his (White) colleagues inflight.

    He had been a pilot in the Navy, who basically schitt canned him after cutting him all kinds of slack-although Calloway claimed “racism”. He was fired from a civilian pilot job after that for cause, although he claimed it was “racism”, and now was going to be fired from FedEx for cause, although he blamed “racism”.

    Spoiler Alert: The three White aircrew, the only people on board beside the nigro, fought off Calloway’s sneak attack, and, although all three men were horrifically injured, landed the plane after securing Calloway. Pure heroism on their part.

    The Cuckipedia article below makes no mention of Calloway’s race or his (many) racism claims.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

  123. prosa123 says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I would agree with whoever said that being an airline pilot is like being a glorified bus driver.

    I was about to say that you cannot compare airline pilots with city bus drivers because the pilots make far higher pay, but on second thought ….

  124. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve piloted a Beech 18S into Kwigillingok (GGV) (PAGG) in limited visibility with a gusting 30-knot crosswind, which my father, who began his naval aviation career flying Iron Hand missions over North Viet Nam, said was one hell of a stunt.
    Women, even dumb blondes, can fly airplanes. If they want to.

  125. Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks.

    The flight decks are locked. You can’t see anybody in them. Thanks to disasters like this:

    [MORE]

    • LOL: duncsbaby
  126. The very name “cockpit” reeks of toxic white masculinity. I suggest they change the name to “c*ntpit”.

  127. Joe862 says:

    Isn’t this because most pilots get trained in the military and most military pilots are white guys?

  128. @Inquiring Mind

    I used to read the PRUNE forum, I.Q. I will just tell you this: Right now, someone who wants to fly for a living is almost guaranteed multiple jobs coming at regional airlines at decent pay, with very decent sign-on bonuses too.

    It’s a different world from 8 years ago. Right now, getting a loan for flight school for \$75,000 or \$120,000 is an almost no-risk proposition*. The airlines, interrupted for a year by the Panic, were/are giving job offers to people that still need 500 hours, and the hiring minimums are very low now! They are as low as what works for the FAA, with the right seat requiring at least a restricted ATP, whilst before the legislation due to Colgan Air 3407 only required a commercial certificate which is a minimum of 250 hours (pretty low) and even lower for pilots out of certain flight schools.**

    As for the MAX, well, I’m not gonna say that was a good design on the MCAS system by any means, but I’ve talked to a number of Southwest pilots who said the erroneous activations of the system were handled by a number of pilots with no problem.

    .

    * That is assuming the guy has gotten a 1st class medial cert. (don’t need it early on, but you want to make sure you have no problems) and maybe done 10 or 20 hours to make sure it’s his thing (both interest-wise and capability-wise).

    ** That doesn’t mean the airlines couldn’t get people with multiple thousand of hours anyway. The hours of various sorts (multi-engine, turbine, etc.) go up and down depending on supply and demand.

    • Replies: @George Taylor
  129. @Jonathan Mason

    I suspect that the majority of airline pilots come from reasonably well-off families who are helping them out financially during their student years.

    The majority have traditionally come out of military careers. Their financial help has indeed come from “reasonably well-off families”– unrelated ones.

  130. @SafeNow

    that he had put the ATC audio on channel whatever, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other passenger-hostile wisecracks occurred during the flight.

    United? As far as I know they’re the only US carrier that makes the ATC available to the passengers. If you think he was being hostile (as opposed to merely unfunny) you should file a complaint. Likely nothing will happen this time but it will make it ways to the right people in the flight department.

    LeMichael will be crewing with Skip. But what if LeMichael has an attitude?

    First officers have a “Do Not Pair” option when making their schedules to avoid specific captains. If a captain has enough DNP’s that logistics become difficult action ranging from a conversation with the chief pilot to suspension to termination (rare) is taken. The pilots union usually doesn’t object because the FO’s are in the union too and nobody likes flying with assholes.

  131. @Jack D

    The main blame goes to the pilot, who was an old white guy of the type who Steve thinks will keep us safe. He had failed 5 prior check rides and spent his time flirting with the copilot.

    First off 47 isn’t “old” … what i’d give to be a young strapping 47 again?

    Secondly, if he actually was flirting with the co-pilot that is not an argument for women pilots, it’s an argument against them.

    Men’s primary interest in women is sexual. When i meet a woman the first thing i notice is that she’s a woman. Then it’s on to all the other stuff–which includes how shapely and sexually appealing she is. That’s just the way it is. If you don’t like it … go back two billion years and cook up some other method of reproduction. (Sex won because it–the gene mixing and competition to do gene mixing–is so powerful.)

    When men are around attractive women, sex will always be “taking up space”. In the office, that’s usually harmless. Just some wasted cycles. But in a critical dynamic environment–flying a plane, combat–it can be a lethal distraction.

    Feminists can–and will–whine that men should “behave better” or something. Sorry, that’s just how men “are”–are going to behave. And the truth is if men didn’t have sexual interest in women … they would have no interest at all. Absent sex, women–and the stuff they are interested in–is simply not very interesting to us. Without the desire for sex/children/family … men would be doing their cool stuff and women would be living in caves and gathering berries. (Of course, without sexual reproduction neither sex would be the way we are, nor even exist.)

    If women want the protection, competence, genius, creativity, hard work and productivity of white guys … the best course is just leave us to do our “guy stuff” how we want to do it. (And offer us something valuable–sex/children/family and we’ll happily share what we produce with you.)

  132. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    Your oh-so-knowing snarky schtick amuses nobody but yourself, you stupid, prating ass-hat. People come here because they are interested in what Steve has to say. Nobody is interested in what you have to say, because you are a brainwashed idiot.

  133. “… killing virtually all aboard. ..”

    What’s the word “virtually” doing in there? In fact all 49 aboard were killed. Plus one unfortunate guy on the ground.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  134. @Jack D

    I am not going to allow the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin to sprinkle their bullshit

    I’m not a Putin fanboy or anything but I do have to call you out on that mixed metaphor.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  135. Jack D says:
    @William Badwhite

    For the nth time, this is not mind reading. This is called making reasonable inference’s from people’s words and deeds. It is something that normal humans do every day. It is something that jurors are asked to do all the time. If the law requires “malice” for the conviction of a certain crime, very rarely does the perp announce, “I am about to do this crime with malice aforethought”. Instead we infer malice from the fact that the perp drove to the victim’s house and kicked the door in and then shot 2 people, even if he never says a word about his state of mind. Maybe to the autists of unz, this seems like a mind reading trick.

    • Thanks: William Badwhite
  136. @Jack D

    You are wrong about one detail, and I was wrong about one, though yours wasn’t so pertinent. This was NOT a regional jet but a turboprop*. I’d recalled the girl was the Captain but stand corrected per the 300 page NTSB report. (The NTSB is full of decent people, engineers and such, who want to LEARN, rather than the FAA which is full of bureacrats who often just want to be a pain in the ass “to make a difference”.) I recommend this report to anyone who wants to learn about everything about the crash.

    \$16/hour wasn’t much, even in ’09. However, people like the job and want to do it. That was the market at that time. As for that hotel stay, I know personally that pilots are notorius cheap-asses**, no matter how much they make. The Seattle commute was bad, but that was her choice and same with getting a room or not, or a crash pad.

    About the stall recovery: Of course pitching down, getting the plane flying again, and recovering smoothly is the method. An airplane is an airplane. HOWEVER, there were airlines training people to not lose 100 ft in the stall (in the simulator), people who would fail otherwise. These were people who thought they knew better, but do you argue or question people who teach on a plane that is far bigger than anything you’ve ever flown? This went on for years, and the law of primacy can take over.

    Next, there was ice on the plane. I have not read that full NTSB report yet, but I’d read elsewhere that the Captain was worried about the icing and then thought he’d had a tail stall. That would inhibit the horizontal stab from doing it’s job to keep the plane pitched right, and it would nose down. (I know, the shaker went off, and then the pusher, but it’s not like they’d train them for a tail stall from icing.). Yeah, that guy screwed up. The girl put the flaps up when it was a bad time to do so.

    As for your last paragraph, no offense, Jack, but no shit. I know way more about this business than you do, and you do know a good bit.

    .

    * To iSteve, yeah, it was technically a Bombardier, as they bought De Havilland.

    ** I know of pilots who have slept in jet bridges to save a buck, going down into the plane to listen to Rush Limbaugh on the ADF, until the next crew comes to kick (this particular guy) out, haha!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  137. Mr. Anon says:

    Why all this talk of pilot shortages just now? If it’s s demographic thing (old white guys aging out), why weren’t airlines concerned about it years ago?

    Whatever the cause, I’m sure it has nothing to do with possible heart problems caused by COVID vaccines, and certainly no respectable news organization would even bother to ever consider such a preposterous idea.

    As to the Holy Trinity of “Diversity, Inclusion, Equity”, when it comes to representation on TV, we must just be about there. A casual perusal of TV commercials would lead one to believe that the United States has the demographics of South Africa, rather than those that it actually has.

  138. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “On the other hand, isn’t the definition of insanity repeating the same action but expecting a different outcome?“

    Right, because there is a ton of data out there that demonstrates clearly that a Shitavious or Sheniqua behind the wheel of a Boeing jetliner is a threat to safety. As I correctly stated, it’s fear porn.

    • LOL: JimDandy
  139. I was reminded of when I got stuck in Ireland an extra day in June 1994 because the night before was the first game of the World Cup soccer tournament and little Ireland beat mighty Italy, the defending champion, on a fluke kick.

    Italy hosted in 1990 but finished third, as West Germany defeated Argentina 1-0. Also, this game was played Saturday, June 18, at Giants Stadium, the day after the famous OJ Simpson car chase and Game 5 of the NBA Finals at Madison Square Garden.

    Also, whoever from FIFA who decided to place Ireland and Italy in a group that would play most of its games in New Jersey was a genius.

    Skip to 0:46 if you’re impatient

  140. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    I guess we shouldn’t allow men in the cockpit (isn’t that a dirty word?) at all. Women don’t think with their dicks because they don’t have any. We could just as well have all female pilots and then we wouldn’t have this problem. Or maybe we could do Taliban style single sex piloting or maybe have a curtain down the middle of the cockpit?

    I am a red blooded heterosexual male and if an attractive female lawyer comes into a conference room I take note of that (not that many female lawyers are attractive) briefly but then I move on to the business at hand and interact with her on a professional level only, especially since I am a married man and especially since my clients are not paying me to flirt with opposing counsel. I have known guys with uncontrollable Harvey Weinstein type urges and it tends to get them in trouble professionally, especially nowadays where the slightest remark or touch could get you in “Me Too” trouble. (And don’t even THINK of touching your Black Female co-pilot’s hair! ) In the old days, it would be laughed off – “Oh, that so-and-so, he’s a real horndog. Those Italian/Black/ whatever men really go for the females.” But not anymore. The safest course is to say NOTHING in a professional setting. If you want to pick up women, do it on the internet – that’s how everyone does it nowadays anyway, from what I understand.

    FAA requirements require a “sterile cockpit” – not only are you not supposed to flirt, you’re not supposed to be chit chatting with the other pilot, male or female, about golf course design or anything extraneous.

  141. Muggles says:
    @AnotherDad

    Note that this is not an article titled “Feminists launch new female piloted airline” or “Black exec launches ‘Black Air’.”

    This sentence reminded me of something.

    Every few months in the news or Wall St. Journal or even on Fake News TV there is some big tout by someone breathlessly announcing the start up of some new black/female/DIE business which will “solve” some nonexistent problem of non White, non Male ownership/management/production of produce or service X, Y, or Z. Only White Men don’t need “role models” to slave away for years on some new idea or service. But everyone else does/

    Sometimes it is banking real estate, investment management, or often some entertainment oriented thing. Film/video production, etc. These are so common we hardly notice it. But usually fronted in the Big Announcement by some black, Hispanic or female entertainer or athlete who is supposedly involved.These often come during black/female/gay month as part of the propaganda effort.

    When that actually happens the Big Name is used as an advertising shill. Until said DIE venture silently and quietly disappears. I have on rare occasion read in the WSJ of the subsequent sale or merger of said “pioneering” business ventures.

    Some brave MBA student should catalog and track the performance of said ventures. How many per X unit of time, how many failed, how soon, how many are still around?

    Money is green (in the US) and cares little about DIE. Asians and Jews, to mention two, don’t have publicity events bragging about being “role models” and “new opportunities” for those groups. Why should they? Nor do MBAs from North Dakota State/

    My guess is that venture capitalists and bankers avoid these tokens like the plague. Unless fishing for new money from idiot liberals.

    Easy to put a DIE face in your ads. Now let’s see who gets the profits? How many investors are DIE types?

  142. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I certain defer to your greater knowledge of the aviation industry and I quite well understood that you already knew what I was saying in the last paragraph – that was really meant for the other readers and not for you. It’s really quite confusing that you get on a plane that says DELTA or AMERICAN in big letters on the plane but somehow you’re not really flying on Delta or American at all.

    Regarding people making \$16k/ year (less than a bus driver even then) being HAPPY to make that kind of money, the only reason they “liked their jobs” is because it was understood to be a stepping stone to getting a job with a major carrier where you could make much, much more.* If you told people, “this is it, you’re gonna make \$16k/yr flying a regional turboprop and that’s all you are ever going to make,” then I don’t think they would have gotten many takers. But unpaid/low paid apprenticeships have been around since the dawn of skilled trades – you can view them as exploitation by employers or as a fair trade.

    *actually I do know one guy who banked a ton of \$ in the tech industry but he really loved flying so he took a job as a regional pilot for the love of flying and not for the shitty pay. He would have done it for free. But most people need the income.

  143. Rich says:
    @Jack D

    Is that what you call “flirting”? If that’s how you “flirt” you must be a lonely guy. That’s what’s known as “small talk”. Nothing you quoted even slightly resembles flirting. Go out in the world and find pilots, or truck drivers, who don’t talk to each other, maybe even joke about accents or remark how much fun they’re having. You are clueless.

  144. Anonymous[260] • Disclaimer says:

    With Stingers and Javelins available for sale on Telegram I don’t think commercial air travel will be a thing in the near future.

  145. @Corvinus

    behind the wheel of a Boeing jetliner

    Oh Corky, bless your heart.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Mr. Anon
  146. AceDeuce says:
    @Jack D

    The major airlines bought up smaller/regional airlines after Carter deregulated the industry in the 70s, to ensure control of them. They kinda/sorta belong to the major airline, but it’s complicated. In general if you have a 4-digit flight number, it’s a regional.

    Additionally, the airlines outsource much of their maintenance anymore-I mean, they have been for some time, but are pushing the envelope more and more to save costs.

    For a textbook example of how this kind of cheaping out, dumbing down, and buck passing can play out in the real world as a disaster, read about this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481

  147. @Achmed E. Newman

    As for the MAX, well, I’m not gonna say that was a good design on the MCAS system by any means, but I’ve talked to a number of Southwest pilots who said the erroneous activations of the system were handled by a number of pilots with no problem.

    I have a female first cousin whose a pilot for one the world’s largest airlines. She was flying the MAX prior to it’s grounding. I of course asked her about it and she said their pilots knew about the issues. FYI she came up the ranks the hard way. Started out by getting four year professional pilot degree in the eighties. Many years of instructor pilot, ferry work etc. Started with the airlines in the 727, then 737 and currently the 777. Suffered through several furloughs over the course of her career but certainly paying off now

  148. Anonymous[293] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    The “worker shortage” meme from the Wall Street-worshiping modern Left is now stale, you can’t just bully people into believing that any more. Boris is importing dot Indians because of a “shortage in qualified IT/programming” (“Unplug the router for 15 seconds”). News flash, lots of men who are able to do the job would like the idea of being pilots, but when you make it another Diverse mongrelized profession with metastatic bureaucracy (as opposed to clear and intelligible requirements) they’ll lose interest. It is not surprising that the women-run economy, typified by obedience, manners-minding and social harmony, can’t do team cohesion so well any more.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  149. Classic Steve, delivered with aplomb. I was worried his softheadedness over Ukraine and mRNA was the beginning of an endless downward spiral that increased in intensity when he picked up that unwholesome, deviant dog near the Disney compound in Burbank.

  150. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    Per Judge Smails famous decree, put that steering wheel over here where it belongs

  151. @Jack D

    Jack, for a guy who claims to be a high IQ guy sometimes you seem like a verbal autistic.

    I specifically wrote:

    When men are around attractive women, sex will always be “taking up space”. In the office, that’s usually harmless. Just some wasted cycles. But in a critical dynamic environment–flying a plane, combat–it can be a lethal distraction.

    Highlighted some key verbiage just for you.

    As to this flight, I heard about it at the time, but my knowledge is confined to the wikipedia and Daily News articles. Based on that, I’d say the fundamental problem was that the pilot was bozo who was sub-par and should not have been flying, coupled with poor training. (Which, BTW, is a “Wall Street” and “Washington” caused problem not an airline pilots union problem.)

    But it does seem like there was a flirtatious man-woman dynamic going on. Run the exact same scenario again even with these two … probably 80% of the time?–it’s ok (a landing). Run it with a male co-pilot … do you get better odds? I’d bet you do. 90% ok? 95%?

    Sex is distracting. Maybe for 90% it’s not significantly distracting to affect performance 99.9% of the time. But then you have the 10% where it’s not distracting 95% of the time. And then … some crazy shit happens … while you’re in the 5% of that 10% and you’ve got a real problem. That’s called “math”.

    And don’t get me started on the issues in combat.

    That tediously specific enough for you?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  152. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, the city of Altadena is mass hiring negro recent ex-cons for their critical fire department. Fires in Altadena can get damn-ass nasty!

    The firefighters serving who were never incarcerated must be overjoyed to share their working domicile with recently former ex-cons. I’d imagine the fairly recent dumbing down of firefighter tests in Southern California greases the wheels for this program to take full effect.

    My take is, if it equates to rich silly liberals at worst dying by fire, or at least losing everything they love, let’s get this negro recent ex-con fireman enrollment plan ramped up an’ shit!

    https://abc7.com/altadena-formerly-incarcerated-firefighters-graduate-second-chance/11783963/?ex_cid=TA_KABC_FB&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR31KEarsY9tFOSSDqdW1gKwfRAttE1XTcDRvdwFUz8LWXzgQlmCgks3Xtk

  153. It would seem to me that the insurance companies underwriting these expensive aircraft would not be onboard with affirmative action incompetents costing them money, not to mention the airlines themselves that will be sued civilly for malfeasance. This BS won’t “fly.”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  154. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Yeah, the pilots even get hassled if they quip something about Brandon to the cabin. Of course that wouldn’t happen in the alternative, if mildly intoning “Blacks Lives Matters” or “Slava Ukraini” which is the direction FAA sterility protocols probably run these days. The passengers should be required to observe government behavior injunctions to stay sterile in their seats so that there is no unsightly bad climate/populism the next time “Allahu Akbar” soars proudly over the intercom

  155. Black women INVENTED aviation!
    Tandeleo Breckenridg was a young black woman who worked for the Wright family.
    Tandeleo was well known for her smarts,and used her math ability to help the local farmers. But her real love,flying,she kept to herself,as it might raise problems with the white folks. They might think she was getting too big for her britches,you might say. Britches get stitches,the red necks said.

    One day Rev. Wright confessed to her that his two boys,Wilbur and Orville,were dullards.
    “What will become of them?,” he sobbed.
    Tandeleo saw her chance,her one chance in life.
    “Reveren,your boys can become successful …and rich!”
    ” What kind of fool nonsense is that?” he cried.
    ” Listen to me.”
    The reverend was taken aback by her assertiveness,but he knew her to be trustwofthy.
    “Go on.”
    ” In Europe there is much talk of making flying machines! It can be done. Your boys have a special ability,A feel for mechanics, I know they can do it! They can build the first flying machine!”
    “My boys…can do that? I had no idea.”
    ” Leave everything to me. You’ll see. Your sons will be great men someday. Just leave it to me…”

    • LOL: James of Africa
  156. My cousin was a Captain for a Major American Carrier (hint). He retired at 60 which I believe was the mandatory retirement age. One day before your birthday ok to pilot a Boeing 747, next day shut you down. So any qualified, experienced pilot over 60 can’t fly passenger planes.His daughter is a pilot for a large American carrier. He lived long enough to see her flying Boeings. Not more than 10 minutes from my house, Continental flight 3407 crashed into a neighborhood, killing all 50 passengers on the plane and one guy in his house. Miraculously his wife and daughter escaped from the house with non live threatening injuries. The two pilots would have made more money working at a fast food store than as pilots. They slept in airports between flights. So blacks don’t fly planes. Meh, they don’t drive so well either. Black airlines for black passengers.Take it out of their reparations.

  157. Jacobite2 says:

    As a Paleo-American, I’ve concluded that the most important difference between us early Boomers and younger generations is that we’ve not only lived through a lot of recent American history ourselves, but were also exposed to an accurate version of earlier US history in school. That being said, a list of white male aviation pioneers that left out Charles Lindbergh is hard to ignore. Not only did Lindbergh popularize US aviation like no one else, but his personal destruction on 9/11/41 was the first major instance of the politics of personal destruction (and still the most influential ‘cancellation’) in US history. Historically illiterate Americans can’t understand what the public crucifixion of “The Lone Eagle” and “The Most Admired Man in America” meant — it was a message that speech which ‘Hollywood’, ‘radio networks, ‘newspapers’, ‘Wall Street’, and all the other euphemisms for you-know-whos, objects to, will be suppressed no matter how popular or influential the speaker might be. Anne Morrow Lindbergh’s description of the personal effects on her family made it plain that nobody from that moment on, would ever speak publicly without self-censoring first. Today, the news blackout on the conflict between the Russian rulers of Russia and the non-Ukrainian rules of Ukraine which blew up with the coup of 2014 is near-total. Just the most recent replay of the ‘meme’ which has been retroactively imposed on history since the Diaspora Uprising of 115-117 A.D. through the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.

    • Thanks: Old Prude
  158. Muggles says:

    While I don’t want to “trigger” any 9/11 Truthers here (please don’t bring that up) it occurred to me while reading the comments above that no one mentioned the Arab hijackers on those four aircraft.

    Those pilots had no prior experience but evidently went to American flight schools to train.

    While their flights were fairly short (as planned) they appeared to have no reportable problems during those flights. Until deviation from original flight paths.

    These rump airliner pilots weren’t college grads (I assume) but were pretty bright. The thugs on board were not.

    So basically amateurs with minimal flight training could and did fly well enough for their mission.

    That is hardly a role model for DIE pilots (these guys were MENA males) and only one flight for each, but still they managed their mission. Muslim pilots seem to be a danger (minor statistically) for intentionally crashing their jets, though one German depressive did so on that charter flight out of Barcelona. So far no Christians want to crash for the Glory of Jesus.

    There are undoubtedly DIE type pilots (most from military) who are as good as the rest. But when you are sorting out people for high skill jobs with many lives at stake, you want to have the best possible odds over time. DIE pilots should be held to very high standards like the rest.

    Recruiting based solely on DIE criteria is a terrible idea. Like your brain surgeon, you want the best selected on merit only.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  159. prosa123 says:
    @AnotherDad

    Troll. Or lunatic. Or both.
    Men work with women all the time and are not constantly thinking about boning them.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon, bomag
  160. Anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

  161. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:

    The never-ending problem for the racial industrial complex?

    In every important endeavor, White people… are awesome.

    There’s just… no getting around it.

    You can’t deconstruct excellence that is inherent, and socially interwoven.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  162. Ralph L says:

    Has any BIPOC or female aspiring pilot tried suing after being rejected? That’s about the only way we’ll see statistics on how many apply and pass/fail. They must have realized they didn’t have a case–or their lawyers did.

    If management actually believed in DIE and weren’t just signaling virtue, they would have been quietly fudging their hiring long before St. Floyd’s martyrdom.

  163. Alden says:
    @prosa123

    I’ve been reading another Dad’s comments for years. Almost every comment is about sex. Or women. I don’t think he’s a Dad at all. Or ever been married or had a long term relationships with a woman. He writes about women from the prospective of a man who really doesn’t know any women. Or works with women. Or has many interactions with women.

    I’m pretty sure he learned about sex and women from henrymakow.com

    • Agree: prosa123
  164. @prosa123

    Men work with women all the time and are not constantly thinking about boning them.

    I think AD was saying that all/most men check out women sexually upon first meeting them. I didn’t hear him saying they are “constantly thinking about boning them. “.

  165. Jack D says:
    @Muggles

    I hope you are joking.

    The hardest part of flying is the landing and the takeoff, in that order. The 9/11 hijackers did neither.

    By all accounts they were TERRIBLE students. Of course they were not very motivated. When it came time to study things like takeoffs and landings, they were not really interested because they knew that they wouldn’t be doing any.

  166. @Jack D

    FAA requirements require a “sterile cockpit”

    That’s for flying under 10,000 ft, Jack.* A relaxed and humorous Captain is a good thing for the communication in the cockpit. I read only part of that NTSB report, but I’d trust it over the NY Post. If you find something flirty, let me know which page or paste it in here.

    OTOH, golf course design is a big no-no, no matter what altitude you’re at, even on the 14 hours great circle routes across to Asia.

    .

    * That is, unless cruising lower than 10,000 ft. msl, in which case the sterile cockpit rule doesn’t apply either.

  167. Alfa158 says:

    Sometimes the flight crew will be late because there are mandatory standards on how long a crew can fly for, and also on how long they have to be rested before flying again. The crew might have been late because they couldn’t show up for duty until the mandatory rest period was over.
    I vaguely recall an air crash where the incoming leg of the flight was behind schedule. If the crew didn’t push it, the next leg would have to be canceled because the crew wouldn’t have time to finish it before their max time on duty was exceeded, and as a result Mistakes Were Made. Maybe someone here remembers the specifics.

    • Replies: @mondofreak
  168. But, higher safety standards have disparate impact.

    Standards are racist.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  169. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    But then you have the 10% where it’s not distracting 95% of the time.

    What they need to do is find that 10% and get them jobs in another industry where their sex craziness won’t kill people. Or train them with electric shocks or something.

    I’m guessing that if there had been a male copilot, the guy would have just blabbed about something else – the girls that he picked up last weekend or something.

    BTW, one of the strange features of the airline industry is that pilots and copilots (and the rest of the crew) are randomly assigned so very often they’ve even met each other until they walk onto the plane, especially on large airlines where there are thousands of pilots.. The airlines do this because it’s hard enough to schedule 1 pilot at a time let alone a pair, but I wonder if there would be better teamwork if pilots worked as regular teams?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  170. @Buffalo Joe

    It’s been 65 y/o for the last ~10 years, Joe, just for your info. Before that, yes, 60.

  171. Coemgen says:
    @prosa123

    Men work with women all the time and are not constantly thinking about boning them.

    You are, of course, referring to unattractive women.

    Attractive women—well, that’s a whole different ball game.

  172. @Jack D

    That’s true Jack, about meeting for the first time – it’s got to happen like that. However, that’s what “standardization” is all about. As for teamwork, most fly trips together for a day to 5 days, and longer on those big freighters in which they go off for 16 day stretches.

    The flight attendants stick together for trips, usually, but they only sometimes stick together with the same pilots on said trips.

  173. https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/legacy-of-a-lie-the-crash-of-atlas-air-flight-3591-519a3a7bd6ec
    the disoriented first officer panicked and flew his plane into the ground.

    First Officer Conrad Jules Aska was born in the tiny Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda
    First he failed to complete training at two different airlines. Then at Trans State Airlines, he failed an oral exam on the ERJ-145, then failed a check ride in May 2014, followed by a failed line check in August, after which he resigned. In May 2017 at Mesa Airlines he failed to upgrade to captain.

    The Atlas Air check airman who failed First Officer Aska on his Boeing 767 type rating examination told the NTSB that Aska lacked situational awareness, “overcontrolled the airplane,” was “very nervous,” “did not work well with the other pilot,” and forgot to perform emergency checklists. Aska was constantly behind his airplane and its actions would catch him by surprise. When confronted with something unexpected, he would panic and start pushing the wrong buttons.

    According to three instructors at [Mesa Airlines], Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something. His ability to fly the plane manually was weak, but he wasn’t any better with the automation, because he struggled to use the flight management computer. Like the check airman at Atlas, they stated that Aska had poor situational awareness and didn’t understand what his airplane was doing. One Mesa Airlines check airman said that Aska’s piloting ability was among the worst he had ever seen.

  174. There is a long, proud tradition of female pilots screwing up royally, going back to famed aviatrix Amelia Earhart. Such noted personalities as Kara S. Hultgreen and Jessica Dubroff have flown off into the wild blue yonder, as well.

    There are, of course, cases in the annals of aviation where a lady captain died, but not through her own incompetence.

    [MORE]

    Candi Kubeck, the captain of the ill-fated ValuJet 592, was such a woman. She died one day after her 35th birthday. She started out as an air traffic controller, then joined Eastern Airlines as a scab, then moved over to ValuJet after Eastern crashed and burned. (The union harassment continued even after her death.)

    In the spring of 1996 the rapidly-expanding ValuJet hired a company called SabreTech to perform maintenance on two old MD-80s it had just purchased from a European airline. As part of the refurbishment process, SabreTech removed the expired chemical oxygen generators from the aircraft. Apparently, no one at SabreTech was aware of the flammability of such devices. No one attached safety caps to prevent them from discharging accidentally.

    The cannisters sat around the SabreTech warehouse for a while until, one day, one of the higher-ups ordered the place to be tidied up in anticipation of an inspection tour by a prospective major customer. The employees in the mailroom figured that since the cannisters had been removed from aircraft owned by ValuJet, technically they were ValuJet property, and so they should be shipped off to the ValuJet home base in Atlanta. The stock clerk put the cannisters in a box, sealed the boxes with duct tape, wrote “Oxy Containers – Empty [sic]” on the boxes, drove out to the Miami airport, and put them on a ValuJet plane bound for Atlanta.

    The first officer approved the mislabeled cargo, thus dooming himself, his lady captain, and everyone else aboard the aircraft to a horrible death.

    At some point shortly before or during takeoff one or more of the cannisters ignited. The fire began in the cargo hold and spread rapidly, burning through the cabin floor. Within minutes the plane was a flaming inferno flying over the Everglades. The pilots attempted to return to MIA but, evidently, succumbed to the fire and/or the smoke. The plane went into a near-vertical dive (consistent with Kubeck’s body being slumped over the controls) and plunged into the muck.

    The rescuers didn’t find any body parts larger than a knee. They found a small piece of torn flesh that had once been attached to the first officer. Nobody ever turned up so much as a flake of skin from Kubeck’s body.

  175. possumman says:
    @Anonymous

    Planes fly on a schedule not CPT

  176. possumman says:
    @Jack D

    Planes fly on a schedule not CPT

  177. Anonymous[345] • Disclaimer says:
    @Herp McDerp

    It’s probably OK to have affirmative action with pilots of cargo planes.

    • Replies: @Escher
    , @Negrolphin Pool
  178. “….in the 20 years since the last catastrophic American passenger jetliner crash (in Queens in 2001).”

    That was Flight 587, which came down in my neighborhood (Belle Harbor, Queens) on November 12, 2001, killing four neighbors and destroying several houses, which was almost certainly a terrorist attack.

    “Remembering Flight 587”

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2010/11/remembering-flight-587.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @acementhead
  179. Coemgen says:

    147 comments into a blog post that has nothing to do with Putin:

    Ctrl+F putin has 25 hits.

    C’mon people, just put your “I stand with Ukraine” bumper sticker next to your Ukraine flag bumper sticker over your BLM and “Stop Asian Hate” and “Hate has no home here” and “Biden/Harris 2020” stickers and stop bothering the rest of us.

    • Agree: vinteuil
  180. Anon[609] • Disclaimer says:

    I recently had a flight from the US to the UK and back.

    At Heathrow Airport, I noticed a Middle Eastern airline (I forgot which one) and also a Singaporean airline. I’m making an educated guess that the pilots of those planes were non-Caucasian. I saw all the flight attendants exit the Middle Eastern airline: all female, all Middle Eastern.

    I’m not aware of any flying disasters from those two airlines.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  181. Ralph L says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    I worry about POC doctors more than POC pilots, because there is usually no white co-doctor to straighten things out.

    I worry about how idiot-proof is all the medical technology and testing that doctors depend on and non-doctors operate. My sister got instructions recently from a WoC homecare nurse who was so obese, she couldn’t walk straight through a doorway. LPN, heal thyself.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  182. @Stan Adams

    https://autojosh.com/100m-f-35-fighter-jet-crashed-by-u-s-female-pilot-on-her-first-flight-recovered-from-china-sea/

    \$100m F-35 Fighter Jet Crashed By U.S Female Pilot On Her First Flight Recovered From China Sea

    It became known after the crash that the world’s first female F-35 pilot was behind the cockpit of the US Navy’s fifth generation fighter.

    According to sources, the unsuccessful attempt was her first flight from the deck of an aircraft carrier.

  183. res says:
    @Herp McDerp

    Great example for this thread. Thanks.

  184. Right_On says:

    Was it not the world’s first woman F-35 pilot who trashed a \$100 million stealth fighter jet thanks to a botched landing on the USS Carl Vinson?

    Perhaps it’s just a malicious rumor . . .

  185. @John Pepple

    OK, respectfully, and for also Anon Geology guy and about 10 other people about to comment, NO, your understanding is about 8 years old. Regional pilots are making good money (not \$30k/yr for F/O and not \$38/yr for Captain, as per the geologist). There is bonus money, Captain pay starts at \$70/hr* or more now.

    F/O’s are upgrading to Captain as soon as they get the required time, as opposed to 10 years back when they could be an F/O for 8 years at a regional. Now, too, not just Captains, but even F/O’s are getting major airline jobs within a few years, not 15, as 10 years back.

    No Reg, the doors are usually not closed on the ground – that is a Chinese thing, though …

    No, AceDuece, some regionals are wholly owned while others make contracts freelance – Skywest, one of the biggest, has contracts with all 3 major “legacy” carriers – American, United, and Delta. Also, it was that way, but due to the 3 big mergers (of 6 legacy carriers into 3) there are too many flights for that flight # scheme. From my observation, any 4-digit flight # starting with 1 or 2 is a major airline flight.

    I’ve even seen a US-China flight with a 3-digit flight number, which is just not right, IMO. They used to be 2 digits, such as the old Northwest 11 Detroit to Tokyo and 12 back. (Usually aviation stuff is east is odd and west is even, so I dunno why that way.) As I recall one airline’s Flight 1 was New York JFK to LAX – makes sense, as it’s probably the busiest route.

    .

    * It can be converted very nicely based on 1,000 credit hours per year to \$70K/yr, and so on.

    • Thanks: GeologyAnonMk5
  186. res says:
    @AnotherDad

    Imagine the disparate impact lawsuits.

  187. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    This was a short-term bug this morning, JSOM, as even for 100 words, it’d do the [MORE] tag. It went away.

    I did suspect for a minute that Ron Unz programmed that in for me, but then I remembered I’m on his Ignore list (either mentally, or setting-wise). He wants to HEAR NOTHINK, NOTHINK, Hogan, about China’s starving and imprisoned LOCKDOWNed people in Shanghai and elsewhere.

    See, China knows how to do Totalitarianism RIGHT and DEFEAT a virus cold! America’s response was “haphazard” cause, Federalism and shit. That’s the story, and he’s, well, if not sticking to it, never, never gonna admit he was dead wrong, that’s for damn sure.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Dmon
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  188. I must be a sexist and a racist because if I saw two black women pilots in the cockpit I would probably have to get off the plane; that, or I’d have to be heavily sedated.

  189. AceDeuce says:
    @J.Ross

    There’s about 20-25 foreign countries that already have them.

  190. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    That was Flight 587, which came down in my neighborhood (Belle Harbor, Queens) on November 12, 2001, killing four neighbors and destroying several houses, which was almost certainly a terrorist attack.

    “Remembering Flight 587”

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  191. @Tucker

    Tucker, the Ann Coulter story has me even more amazed that this otherwise smart lady still supports Affirmative Action. Is that not a huge contradiction? What’s her deal on this?

    Now, you brought up a funny story of mine: This was about 15 years back. A friend doesn’t fly much, and he told me he was heading out on the first leg on an ERJ-135/145 (the smaller ones before the 170s/175s/190s that look like mini Airbuses). “Oh, that one”, I told him “is called the ‘Jungle Jet’ because it’s made down there in Brazil”. (Embraer). There was nothing racial to that, it’s just a nickname, like “Baby Bus” or “Whale” as the controllers call the Airbus 319 and called 747, respectively.

    He told me afterwards that he climbed up the air-stairs and, to be friendly said to the flight attendant “hey, is this the Jungle Jet?” Yeah, well that flight attendant and both pilots were black. Haha! The paying customer is always right.

    PS: No, Alden, pay does not vary with location. Pilots big for their base, based on seniority. The only time I’ve heard of extra money was for NYC, do to it being a shitshow.

  192. @AnotherDad

    I once read that airline travel has about the same accident rate as driving your car.

    Same accident rate as driving, get out-of-here you tell me? Yeah, per hour, you in your car and the pilots of the big jets have accidents at about the same rate.

    Per mile, jets are 10-times safer, but a jet goes about 10 times faster than your car. So on a per hour rate, about the same. Which suggests that if the engineers have wrung out the wings falling off/wheels falling off as a hazard in a plane/car, you are down to the irreducible human lapses, which at a per-hour rate are about the same.

    iSteve had that fact that the US airlines have not had a multi-fatality accident in 18 years, so flying has to be safer than driving. On the other hand, cars are improving with radar to automatically slam on the brakes if you are about to run into something, stability control that pulses the brakes to steer the car in a way that you don’t spin out on a slick road and so on.

  193. @Achmed E. Newman

    I never call it a “Jungle Jet”, which is a stupid name. It is properly called an Embraer.

    I never know how to pronounce it, though. Is it “ehm-BRAY-er”, which rhymes with “prayer”? Or is it “ehm-bray-AIR “, which rhymes with scare?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  194. @J.Ross

    Somewhat on-topic: what do the local aviation experts think about the Germans acquiring Chinooks?

    The tribe or the weather phenomenon? Is that an effect of “climate change”?

    • Replies: @additionalMike
  195. Alden says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I didn’t write pay varies with location. I wrote the cost of housing varies with location.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  196. @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Jim Bob, Tuskegee Airmen were fighter pilots and didn’t come back to commercial airline jobs, but the US trained thousands of pilots and few came back to airline jobs. I was a very young foreman on a blast furnace rebuild and I had two ironworkers that flew in WWII in my crew. One flew from a carrier, the other a B-17 in Europe. They had enough flying. Commercial pilots spend nights on the road and start very early in the morning. Good pay doesn’t always mean a great job. Stay safe.

  197. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “Standards are racist“

    Citations are required showing exactly how the airline training criteria has markedly changed across the board for future new pilots of color. Perhaps our intrepid host could throw you a lifeline.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  198. @Achmed E. Newman

    Cutting immigration is the most effective affirmative action policy of all. Why are all those black people holed up in frosty urban jungles on and near the Great Lakes? Because we cut off the flow of huddled white masses a century ago, and those cities needed warm bodies in their factories. Especially once we started sending our own young men in the opposite direction.

    • Replies: @Alden
  199. @Corvinus

    Citations are required showing exactly how the airline training criteria has [sic] markedly changed…

    Criteria don’t have to change. They merely have to exist. Disparate impact, you know.

  200. ‘Morning motherf***ers, this yo’ Captain speaking.
    We gon’ fly off to our destination in a minute.
    We gon’ fly at a altitude way the f*** up there.
    An’ we gon’ arrive whenever I goddam feel like it, proly about 20, 30 minutes late.
    Don’t be smokin’ no shit in the bathrooms or nothin,’ or walkin around the aisles like fools.
    If them yellow cups fall down out the ceilin’ put yo’s on and f*** everbody else.
    If we gon’ crash put your head down between yo’ legs and kiss yo ass goodbye.
    Looks like a lovely day and smooth flying out there today so I might jus’ put on autopilot and take me a nap.
    Okay, enjoy the ride and thanks for flying Diversity Airline. Peace out!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan
    , @Malla
  201. @Mike Tre

    LOL.

    https://uscnpm.org/2022/04/19/chinese-public-opinion-war-in-ukraine/

    Between March 28 and April 5, 2022, the Carter Center China Focus conducted a survey of Chinese public opinion regarding Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Results demonstrate that 75% of respondents agree that supporting Russia in Ukraine is China’s national interest, and that roughly 60% of respondents support China mediating an end to the conflict. By examining the individual correlates of these positions, we demonstrate that higher education, more consumption of state media, and more consumption of social media are correlated with higher support for Russia.

  202. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “The “worker shortage” meme”

    It’s not a meme, it’s been well documented. Let’s sod you should pay closer attention to Econ 101.

    “News flash, lots of men who are able to do the job would like the idea of being pilots, but when you make it another Diverse mongrelized profession with metastatic bureaucracy (as opposed to clear and intelligible requirements) they’ll lose interest.”

    So you didn’t make the cut and are now on full display with a digital temper tantrum.

    “ It is not surprising that the women-run economy”

    Citations required.

  203. @Jack D

    Jack, Continental flt 3407, Newark to Buffalo operated by Commair crashed 10 minutes from my house in nearby Clarence Center,NY. There is now a small memorial park there at the crash site. My neighbor, six houses away died in that crash. She was flying home with a pregnant co-worker that was the daughter of a friend of mine. My wife shared office space at our HS with the woman who house was demolished killing her husband. The plane iced up. The stall alarm sounded. Both pilots were sleeping with the plane on auto pilot. They instinctively pulled back on the yoke. The correct proceedure was to push forward to gain air speed and lift. Tired, poorly paid younsters flying a plane full of passengers. We went to three funeral services. When the daughters of the homeowner killed by the plane tried and failed to eulogize their dad I totally lost it. I have no use for most politicians but Schumer got training rules changed. Both pilots could have made more pay working for minimum wage at 40 hours a week.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    , @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  204. Danindc says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    It’s criminal we pay teachers more money than pilots in this country.

  205. @Mike Tre

    It isn’t the pilot who gets to decide who to hand a boarding pass to, nor decide how tightly to space the passenger seating.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  206. Polistra says:
    @Jack D

    The point of the post was simply that the entourage was all white males.

    You know, in relation to the blog post at hand.

    Sorry, didn’t mean to trigger anyone.

  207. Alden says:
    @Anon

    And after 20, 22 24 years at age 40 to 45 a pilot finally has a middle class salary.

  208. @mousey

    The sophistication of modern airline aviation would absolutely allow a remote pilot to be used for take-off and landing.

    Remote piloting has already been done with guys in Nevada flying drones over Iraq. It works pretty well except for the pesky part about take off and landing where the 2-3 second satellite transmission delay makes dealing with things like abrupt runway crosswinds too difficult and drone goes BOOM.

    Flying is pretty boring, until it isn’t and then you want a guy with ice water in his veins like Neil Armstrong, not some guy who passed his check ride after “remedial education” after failing it the first 5 times.

    It’s like going to the doctor. I want an old white/asian guy who has seen everything, not some 20 something POC PA.

  209. Alden says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I’ve sometimes thought about that. Most people think the 1920s immigration restrictions were the best thing for America. Because it kept out a lot of Europeans who were not Anglo Protestants.

    But was it really a good thing? The businesses began importing the dumbest most primitive blacks from the south to fill the jobs the immigrants had formerly worked.

    The restrictions happened about 93 years ago. And look what happened to our great cities suburbs and small towns as the blacks from cities like Chicago are relocated all over Illinois Wisconsin and Iowa. Or from Los Angeles to Riverside and other counties.

    What’s worse, an orthodox or catholic Slav with an IQ of 99 or a black American with an IQ of 80? What’s worse, the orthodox and Catholic Churches especially the parish grade schools that churned our productive citizens or the black Protestant lecherous con man thieving political preachers and the public schools that were helpless against the onslaught of primitive black kids?

    There’s nothing to be done about it 100 years later but it’s something to think about.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Midnights
  210. @GeologyAnonMk5

    US commuter airlines pay 30k/yr for first officers and about 38k/yr for captains.

    You can make triple that being a store manager at Kroger.

  211. @JimDandy

    Hey, hey, hey, this is airplane thread!

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  212. @Anonymous

    A certain level of math and technical skills must be learned to be a commericial pilot and a certain level of IQ is necessary to gain them, which would leave behind 85% of whites and and over 95% of blacks. Blacks with the necessary intelligence for that challenge alredy have no fail AA jobs waiting for them.

    Talk to any commercial pilot sometime, not just airline pilots, and ask them what they have to face each year in a simulator to keep that licence.

    I suspect my betters are calculating that airliners will be fully automatic soon and pilots will be lawn jockeys, so why not hire incompetents? They will be flying privately so it’s not a problem.

  213. megabar says:
    @Almost Missouri

    > It won’t be bad for their bottom lines if everyone can be forced to do it at the same time, so that competition and customer choice cannot reward the better and punish the worse.

    A lot of air travel is discretionary.

  214. Hibernian says:
    @Unit472

    It maybe the airlines don’t want ex fighter pilots as civil airliner pilots for the same reason J.B. Hunt doesn’t recruit failed NASCAR wannabes as truck drivers.

    I think historically some fighter pilots have become airline pilots.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
  215. Rich says:
    @mikeInThe716

    What’s in it for you guys to go after the experienced pilot who probably flew in these conditions scores of times? Is it your contention that females don’t belong in the cockpit because they’re a distraction? Are you related to the deceased co-pilot? Do you work for the insurance company? It’s common practice for experienced pilots to speak to each other when flying. Knock it off.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    , @Jack D
  216. J.Ross says:
    @Meretricious

    Jay Fink’s Black Rock enforces corporate woke with de facto monopoly control of loans and octopus shareholding. The public doesn’t matter, the market doesn’t matter, the actuarial tables don’t matter. If you depend on any of the processes Black Rock controls, you do what the Fink says.

    • Replies: @SFG
  217. The corrollary to this will be the government making all road trips over two hours driving time mandatory flight (global warming! flying is carbon neutral!–Tyler Cowen has actually said this), so everybody gets equal opportunity exposure to the sistahs’ aeronautical skillz.

    The rich will continue to take timeshare/charter jets piloted by competent ex-military white guys. Recucklicans will continue to sternly lecture us that it’s not about race but about recognizing the proper contours of the 14th Amendment. They will champion what will be known to history as the “Romney Compromise,” whereby the airlines will be able to staff a randomly chosen 40% of domestic flights and 20% of international flights with crews selected without regard to race or gender.

  218. “Niraj Chokshi.” Fine, founding-stock American name.

  219. @Corvinus

    “The “worker shortage” meme”

    It’s not a meme, it’s been well documented. Let’s sod you should pay closer attention to Econ 101.

    Econ 101 teaches that there is no such thing as a generic shortage. Just shortages at particular price points.

    Supply will catch up to demand when it pays to do so.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  220. Jack D says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    I am so sorry. It’s one thing to read about these things but it’s a whole different thing when it touches you personally. It really brings home the consequences of negligence. It’s not so abstract when that box with someone you know and love in it is in front of you.

    Corporate America will kill people when there’s money to be made. It’s not that they WANT to kill people, it’s just that they don’t want to let safety get in the way of the money making. The only thing that stops them is if, through the legal system, you make the cost of doing the wrong thing higher than the cost of doing the right thing because while morality means nothing to them, cost is something that they understand.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
  221. Mr. Anon says:
    @William Badwhite

    The idiot known as “Corvinus” knows no more about airplanes than he does about any facet of everyday life. He is a moron.

  222. A few years ago, for some reason, the YouTube algorithm started putting videos of women piloting big jets on my home screen. Many of them are made by (United Arab) Emirates Airlines, but there are quite a few others, too. It seems to be a category.

    • Replies: @beavertales
  223. @Corvinus

    ‘Right, because there is a ton of data out there that demonstrates clearly that a Shitavious or Sheniqua behind the wheel of a Boeing jetliner is a threat to safety. As I correctly stated, it’s fear porn.’

    It’s certainly a pretty good bet. What odds are you offering?

  224. J.Ross says:

    OT a good example of old-fashioned 4chan. Anonymous remembers a possible scam (text below more tag) and checks into it. Another anon finds that, while the scam itself was probably successful and scrubbed, publicly available evidence speaks to the character of the alleged scammer.
    https://postimg.cc/VSgwzJtT
    https://postimg.cc/Q9C2s0h9

    [MORE]

    …Anonymous (ID: 8O1Nu1yS)
    The Ijeoma Ukenta Scam
    04/24/22(Sun)22:07:23 No.374546963
    >around July 2021 black lady makes a video of a white lady wigging out in a Victoria Secret.
    >No actual evidence of assualt but her video claims there was
    >Black lady creates go gofundme so she can get a lawyer even though you don’t need to pay money to press charges if you were assaulted.
    >Ijeoma Ukenta’s name is now scrubbed from the internet.
    For some reason I was thinking about this black chick who put together a gofundme campaign because she said this white girl assaulted her in Victoria Secret and no one helped her. She filmed the incident of the famous “Victoria Secret Karen” where the white girl completely wigs out and the black girl follows her around while accusing her of assaulting her (video never shows an actual assault)

    So she sets up this gofundme claiming she’ll use the money for legal action even though it does not cost anyone money to file a police report related to an assault.

    She ends up bringing in over 100k.

    Then everything goes dark. Her name Ijeoma Ukenta is nearly scrubbed from the internet, at one point i remember there being heaps of reddit posts with this black chicks name in the post, she even made a bunch of tik tok follow ups, but now they are all gone.

    No updates on anything Clearly she just took the money, but I’m curious as to why no one is poking around, i feel like this girl pulled off a pretty decent scam and successfully memory holed it?

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  225. From the Greatest Generation to the most diverse generation.

  226. I wonder if our Dear Leader would care to comment on this rash of suicides aboard the USS Washington,which is in port for overhaul?

  227. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I believe there was a documentary about black pilots,it was called “Soul Plane.”

  228. Mr. Anon says:

    Anything that results in fewer people flying is a win for the ruling class. They want fewer people flying. Ultimately they want no people flying – not the hoi-polloi anyway. They of course will still be flying……………private, and with pilots who look much as pilots have always looked.

  229. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks for the link.

    This is something I have long advocated. If you are a conservative, the professoriate are, essentially, your enemy. And they are not an irrelevant enemy either. All the crazy ideas which have moved into the mainstream started out as some academic obsession somewhere.

    This is actually an effective way to fight a leftwing power-block. Abolish tenure. Undermine their livelihoods. Make them devote resources to protecting their own jobs and force them to admit what it is they really want – a sinecure (that’s bound to endear them to their deeply indebted, gig-economy students). This is good news. Finally, some conservatives might be learning how to play the game.

    • Disagree: Abolish_public_education
  230. Lurker says:

    After all, what have white American men ever accomplished in the field of aviation? I mean, besides the Wright Brothers

    The Wright Bruthas surely?

    The DC-3

    The DC-3 were a group of long forgotten and unjustly accused/jailed Black freedom fighters in Washington.

    the Battle of Midway

    Two groups of high-spirited teens clashing in the eponymous mall.

    the 707

    The number of arrests after the aforementioned Battle of Midway.

    Apollo 11

    A dead aspiring rapper.

    • LOL: HammerJack
  231. Mr. Anon says:
    @Stan Adams

    The pilots attempted to return to MIA but, evidently, succumbed to the fire and/or the smoke.

    MIA – really not a good airport code.

  232. AceDeuce says:
    @Hibernian

    I think historically some fighter pilots have become airline pilots.

    Many.

    Sully was a fighter pilot in the Air Force.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  233. Anon[168] • Disclaimer says:
    @Unit472

    I think the main problem is that working class white men couldn’t afford to have as many as 2 kids per family a generation ago. If white men are having fewer offspring because they’re too underpaid, it will eventually catch up with businesses that need those guys to do jobs competently.

    • Agree: 3g4me
  234. Anon[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    In other words, you’re advocating for a 3rd-world airline, just like a 3rd-world country. Look at the crashes in 3rd world countries. A high number of crashes come from one person in the cockpit screwing up, to the point where it is unrecoverable — i.e, 200 people meet a horrific end.

    Unrelated, I always thought it was funny that the movie Flight (starring Denzel Washington) came out only a few years after Sully landed on the Hudson (blatantly doing something only a White or NE Asian pilot could do). It was kind of like the Delta version of Hidden Figures — a particularly nicely-timed piece of propaganda from the tribe.

  235. Anon7 says:

    Fewer than one percent of pilots are black women. But they have help now.

    100 Pairs of Wings Project

    The 100 Pairs of Wings Project aims to send 100 African American women to the Lt. Col. Luke Weathers Flight Academy, a part of the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals by the year 2035. As the aviation industry faces a shortage of pilots, we encourage dreamers of every hue to join us. In this remarkable age of widening opportunity, fewer than 150 women of African descent fly for the regional, military, corporate, cargo, or major airlines combined. The 100 Pairs of Wings project will increase their representation in the aviation industry.

    The 100 Pairs of Wings Project will accept its first class beginning November 2022.

    The Jet Black Foundation

  236. anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:

    Surprised this has not been brought up. This is from Marc Andreessen, one of the more influential VC’s in Silicon Valley. 2020-2021 basically red-pilled the majority of talent in tech. The NE establishment is terrified.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Polistra
    , @Reg Cæsar
  237. @J.Ross

    The Globohomo Spider is taking advantage of the chaos and disruption to commodity exports from Ukraine and Russia which are crucial to global food production. I wonder if Putin is taking a gratuity for the timing of his invasion? Is there any place in the world free from the poisoned web of Globohomo?

  238. @Jim Don Bob

    It only takes one incompetent, but determined, person in your cockpit, and all can be lost.

    https://tailstrike.com/database/01-june-2009-air-france-447/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  239. @Corvinus

    “It’s been well documented”

    I can’t figure this worker shortage out. COVID related government payments dried up in 2021. Why aren’t people returning to work? There’s also staffing problems at hospitals, particularly nurses. Having recently spent way too many hours in the creepy confines of a local hospital I noticed strange small brown women standing in for the preferred white ones. One of the few white ones left confided in me: They — the optimal white broads — decided against volunteering for the Great mRNA/DNA Experiment. So they quit and hit the road for the few medical systems in the country that don’t require the clot-shot.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    , @Corvinus
  240. @Inquiring Mind

    Entertaining and informative discussion. I’d only add by way of (relatively trivial) correction that “second world” doesn’t mean “junior first world” rather it refers to the (former) communist bloc.

    The term is fairly obsolete now and yeah, we’re not even supposed to say “third world” any more. So I say it all the time.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  241. @Midnights

    “Flight deck” is now preferred.

  242. @AnotherDad

    Of course, without sexual reproduction neither sex would be the way we are, nor even exist.

    You sure about this?

    Reproductive Strategies of Whiptail Lizards

    As for the other stuff, I’m on board with Hank:

    In another fashion, so is Vladimir:

    [MORE]

  243. J.Ross says:

    OT Diversity doesn’t have to be stupid, but with our ruling caste, it’s sure to be. Coen-brothers-movie-worthy federal #^\[email protected]
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcgirt-v-oklahoma-native-american-reservation-fbi-supreme-court-tulsa-pd-systemic-racial-injustice-crime-policing

    The McGirt ruling revived six historical Native American reservations in Oklahoma. Within those borders, the state can’t prosecute crimes by or against Natives. Thousands of cases have shifted to the feds, with the FBI as lead detective. The Oklahoma field office, Director Christopher Wray said last year, “now has the FBI’s largest investigative responsibility.”

    So what happens to less serious cases, say, if a white thief steals a Cherokee’s car? “Well . . . yeah, nothing,” Mr. Gray says. “That’s an issue that we understand is there, but not only do we not have the capacity to work the single car theft, the small property thefts, the U.S. Attorney’s Office doesn’t have the capacity to try those or even any misdemeanor cases.”

  244. J.Ross says:
    @anonymous

    Zuckerberg is reliably an empty suit but Andreessen is consistently fascinating whenever he talks.

  245. @HammerJack

    I’d only add by way of (relatively trivial) correction that “second world” doesn’t mean “junior first world” rather it refers to the (former) communist bloc.

    And the Third World consisted of those outside the two blocs. The first country with the Third World label was Switzerland.

    For example, going by the historical definition, nations such as Finland, Sweden, Ireland, and Switzerland were not aligned with either NATO or the Communist Bloc, and so were Third World countries.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/third-world-countries

    It’s not hard to understand– the learning curve is quite steep.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  246. @J.Ross

    That is a pretty funny premise for a Coen Bros. movie.

  247. @Anon

    Zemeckis is Polish Catholic and Denzel was great in “Flight.”

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Dingo bay rum
    , @anon
  248. Polistra says:
    @anonymous

    2020-2021 basically red-pilled the majority of talent in tech.

    Appears to have swayed a few notables, at any rate.

    The NE establishment is terrified.

    Unlikely.

  249. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Both pilots were sleeping with the plane on auto pilot.

    How could they have fallen asleep on such a short flight?

  250. J.Ross says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    “Ehn-brah-air.”
    I looked it up because I remembered something about Portuguese “r” being pretty funky, but that’s not the case with a medial Brazilian r. The m turning to n though …

  251. @Alden

    Sorry. I misinterpreted this:

    Pay is relative to where they live.

  252. @Nicholas Stix

    “…which was almost certainly a terrorist attack.”

    Flight 587 crash was 100% certainly caused by incompetent pilots. There was no terrorism involved.

    The NTSB investigated and they got it right(they almost always do).

    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR0404.pdf

    Probable Cause

    The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs

  253. @Jean-Baptiste Moquelin

    So, technically, she became the first female submarine commander that day.

  254. Back in the 1970’s when I was a callow yoof rather than a callow old fart, I was in some West African country, Gambia? Ghana? was sitting on a plane at airport when the rear door was opened and the black pilot in the bemedaled and braided uniform of a Marx Brothers movie marched up the aisle into the cockpit. I was gathering my shit to get off when the guy next to me told me not to worry, the white guy who was actually going to fly the plane boarded before the passengers and we’d just seen a show.

    Can we assume the same sensibility in Lagos on the Chesapeake?

    • LOL: Jim Bob Lassiter
    • Replies: @James Speaks
    , @Reg Cæsar
  255. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Point taken, but it does seem to me that those things can be learned (although you need the right mindset to learn them).
    I was never so great at basketball or free throws as a kid, but I have learned decades later that I can get better at free throws in fifteen minutes at Chuck E Cheese. Way better. Way better than I was just previously.
    I think it is an issue of realizing the mind is in control of the body.
    But now take something where it is a trope that blacks pretty much always win: the sprint.
    Crucial to sprinting is that you have to remain still until the PRECISE moment the gun fires, and then go all out.
    That is all about MENTAL control.
    False starts happen, but they aren’t so common.
    The black guys who win in sprinting have genetic advantages, and they built their muscles and neurons via training, but it is the mind that determines whether you go on precisely the GO signal.
    But you need to train the mind to be good at that stuff.

  256. @Travis

    Most airlines have eliminated the vaccine mandates. Maybe they will rehire the pilots they fired 6 months ago.

  257. SFG says:
    @J.Ross

    Yeah, with the move to index funds blackrock, fidelity, and vanguard own everything.

    I think the biggest offender is blackrock. I do wonder if a boycott with people moving to an acknowledged right wing company would do any good. Can’t be that hard to run an index fund, though the expense ratio would be higher than Vanguard’s. Tricky part would be the initial capital stake…is Peter Thiel reading this?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  258. Mike Tre says:
    @AnotherDad

    “Putin’s War in Ukraine.”

    Spoken like AnotherJackD

  259. Spud Boy says:

    …the reason for racial inequality among pilots that is most commonly cited by experts and instructors is perhaps the most apparent: A lack of role models and exposure…”

    What a crock.

    As if black women are not aware there are this things called airplanes, flown by individuals called pilots.

    • Agree: bomag
  260. Coemgen says:
    @Joe Stalin

    What would be nice to see is a contrast-and-compare of the Chinese propaganda with the western “I stand with Ukraine” propaganda.

  261. My brother flew the smaller commercial. They operate like the baseball minor leagues, paying peanuts so the pilots can hang onto hope of getting called to the show.

  262. Big Mama gon’ show you how to melt steel beams with jet fuel, y’all! Or fry trying.

    Anyway, once again this is not uncharted waters for darkest Africa. A few years back a black South African Air Force student pilot and his brand new Pilatus training aircraft disappeared during the first solo flight of his training. Wreckage was found with the body of the trainee. It appears that he suffered a panic attack and attempted an emergency landing without radioing what he was up to. The crash landing was okay, but then he hit an abandoned brick structure on some random farm. The cadet had been allowed to stay in training despite failing practically every task, he black, yo! Most pilots and air crew or technicians are white men.

    Another incident involved the black air crew of an Air Force Oryx helicopter (a copy of the French Puma made under license by the old SA government) on a training flight. Passing close to a highway they decided to perform an illegal landing to buy fast food at a gas station. On takeoff the pilot tried some fancy move and wrecked the helicopter, the crew survived with minor injuries.

    • Thanks: bomag
  263. bomag says:
    @megabar

    …these people really believe this stuff.

    A good chunk them don’t, but they go along, carrying the belief that there are enough safeguards in the system to keep performance from falling too much.

    There’s been enough technical progress to make the job easier — more routine — less performance critical; thus the call to lower standards has a chance to work, but riding such a tiger often does not end well.

  264. bomag says:
    @Corvinus

    In Corvinus fashion, I will point out that there is no data that clearly demonstrates that putting an upland gorilla behind the control stick of a Boeing jetliner is a threat to safety. As I correctly stated, I am in a position to correctly state what is correct.

    • LOL: acementhead
  265. @SFG

    After the revolution, My clean-up of Treasury, second only to the week I spend fixing Justice, will focus on just why the Fed, whose role, such as it is, is to be the regulator and lender of last resort to the Banks, got into the business of sharing money and advance information with the Investment Houses. I’d jail a couple of hundred people for fraud and conspiracy and reduce a couple of tens of thousands to Penury. Week three would be fixing homeland security…

    • Agree: bomag
  266. @Ralph L

    My sister got instructions recently from a WoC homecare nurse who was so obese, she couldn’t walk straight through a doorway. LPN, heal thyself.

    And the instructions were wrong?

  267. @SunBakedSuburb

    Having recently spent way too many hours in the creepy confines of a local hospital I noticed strange small brown women standing in for the preferred white ones.

    If you had actually plucked up courage to speak to the small brown women you would very likely have discovered that they were Filipinas, who is culture had been Americanized as a result of their country being invaded by the US more than 100 years ago.

    One of the few white ones left confided in me: They — the optimal white broads — decided against volunteering for the Great mRNA/DNA Experiment.

    It seems odd that if you spoke to one of the few white women left that she would not have left herself if she believed that the vaccines mostly distributed in the United States were harmful.

    Nursing has suffered from shortages for some years in the US, due partly to the retirement of most baby boom nurses, also due to many states now requiring a 4-year bachelor’s degree to be a registered nurse, which is an expensive qualification to obtain.

    Also many areas of nursing require working long hours, weekends, holidays, and nights, and often involves mandatory overtime, none of which helps with recruitment.

    Hence many nurses will jump at lower paid jobs like working in a doctor’s office or as a school nurse, or in a health department, so as to get better working hours, with the result that it is difficult to recruit to nurses for shift work in hospitals.

    Nurses are pretty used to mandatory vaccinations and having to wear face masks when dealing with infectious respiratory diseases.

  268. There will be no safety concerns with this, because the meaning of “safety” will be redefined. A future NY Times article: “Captain Sh’anteeka safely crashed the plane, killing only 0.0001% of the nation’s population”.

  269. Coemgen says:

    Nursing has suffered from shortages for some years in the US, due partly to the retirement of most baby boom nurses, also due to many states now requiring a 4-year bachelor’s degree to be a registered nurse, which is an expensive qualification to obtain.

    Hm, if there’s a lack of candidates for nursing jobs in the U.S., why do so many nursing baccalaureate programs have such low acceptance rates?

    For example,

    The University of Massachusetts Amherst

    “Admission to the Nursing Major is highly competitive, as we are limited by the availability of clinical placements for students. Acceptance to the University does not guarantee admission to the Nursing Major. The typical accepted student in the Nursing Major has a 4.1 GPA (weighted and recalculated), an average SAT score of 1360, and an average ACT score of 28. The approximate acceptance rate for Nursing applicants is 12%.” [source]

  270. Escher says:
    @Anonymous

    Or pilots of cargo cults.

  271. @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, I think it goes like this.

    First World was the US and its peer trading partners, whether or not they were part of NATO or made a big deal of their neutrality such as Sweden or Switzerland. Essentially countries with reliable electricity, indoor plumbing, at least where most visitors would go, absence of endemic infectious or parasitical disease.

    Second World was the Communist Block, which back in the day, Soviet Union and China were regarded as part of the same thing even if they had their dirty laundry of serious disagreements not aired in public.

    Third World was the largely impoverished and underdeveloped, often recently independent from colonial countries.

    Countries such as say, Argentina, India, Korea (back in the day) were “developing countries”? OK, OK, Third World was largely sub-Saharan Africa — were there notable third world locations outside of that region? Maybe in Central Asia? Perhaps the more undeveloped regions in South America? Caribbean?

  272. Gamecock says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    putting by US standards low flight time graduates of those academies into the seat of a highly automated Airbus. There has been a great deal of discussion at pprune.org about the pros and cons of that approach, including the low-time pilots at the controls of Air France flight 447 that crashed when the automatics on an A-340 Airbus “threw up its robotic hands and went offline” in a thunderstorm.

    Airbus used to be notorious for not releasing control. Several serious accidents occurred because the software thought it knew better than the pilot. In fact, it crashed on its air show debut in 1988. When the pilot brought it down for a low approach at the airport, he had to tell the plane he was landing. As he completed the flyby, and tried to power up and raise the flaps and gear, the plane said, “No, you are landing.” It sailed into the trees. 3 on board were killed.

    Videos on youtube.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  273. @J.Ross

    Until the DeSantinistas reclaimed it last week, wasn’t the “Special District” occupied by Disney World near Orlando, FL functionally the same as an Indian Reservation?

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  274. @Anonymous

    “Remembering Flight 587”

    Before any evidence was in, while telling the public not to jump to any conclusions, the FAA and NTSB jumped to the conclusion that the crash had not been caused by a terrorist attack. For five days following the crash, the panicky feds floated a different, entirely speculative theory each day, as to what had caused the crash. Birds in the turbine. The wake from the previous plane. The First Officer’s overuse of the tail rudder.

    Whatever the truth may have been, the feds’ panic gave away that they were convinced that the crash was a terrorist attack.

    Eventually, the feds settled on First Officer Sten Molin as fall guy, claiming that his overuse of the rudder on takeoff caused the tail assembly to fall off.

    If that were the case, why don’t such accidents happen all the time? And if Molin was the problem, why was that Airbus model soon taken out of circulation?…

    The A300 Airbus exploded over Belle Harbor, Queens, killing 260 passengers and crew members, and five people on the ground. Federal officials immediately assumed that mechanical failure had caused the crash, though they had no evidence to support that conclusion, and used the mainstream media to float several different theories. The theory they settled on a few days after the crash, required the public to take one leap of faith after another. Over two dozen eyewitnesses to the crash, however, have refused to take the leap. The witnesses say they saw the jet on fire before its tail broke off, and it went into a fatal spiral; they have largely been ignored by federal officials and the media.

    If explosions preceded the tail’s breaking off, a bomb begins to look more plausible as the cause of the crash….

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2010/11/remembering-flight-587.html

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @S
  275. @Corvinus

    So somehow with more darkies and womyn in the cockpit of a jumbo jet, we can undoubtedly expect a rise in crashes. No proof required, just speculation.

    If standards are maintained, then things should be fine. But of course, standards will be lowered because that is what our elites demand when they don’t get the outcome they like. And then when more crashes are the result, they will blame it on systemic racism rather than their own lowering of standards.

  276. @Polistra

    “Meanwhile, in Another Country…”

    You mean in a still serious country?

  277. @Midnights

    With two women piloting the plane it’s not the cockpit. It’s the box office.

    • LOL: Midnights
  278. Jack D says:
    @HammerJack

    Slightly OT – here a a classic flat spin (best known from the movie Top Gun ) which is rarely filmed because it is usually unrecoverable, especially if one engine is out:

    This is believed to be a Russian Su-34 shot down recently over Ukraine (or perhaps it was “mechanical trouble”). Su-34s are believed to cost in the range of \$40 to \$50 million each. Pilots ejected.

  279. Dmon says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You have to give the Chinese credit for clear, consistent thinking though.
    Problem 1 – For political reasons, we have to lockdown half the country.
    Problem 2 – For economic reasons, we have to keep cranking out cheap shit.
    Solution – Lock ’em down at work.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/04/shanghais-plan-to-reboot-the-supply-chain-will-hit-workers-the-hardest/

    “Some factories have been able to continue operations while minimizing the risk of COVID outbreaks by operating with workers shut inside a “closed loop,” meaning that they have to remain inside a plant, eating there and in some cases reportedly sleeping on the floor, for days or even weeks at a time.”

    You can see why TPTB are so impatient to get rid of all these useless eaters and get to the robot stage.
    And now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  280. @Steve Sailer

    What does being polish catholic have to do with it being propaganda??

  281. I will make one small case for diversity in the cockpit — You don’t normally think “NY Jew” and “flyboy” in the same sentence but my dad was a test pilot and hangar rat right out of high school, then a transport pilot and flight mechanic in WWII. (He planned to stay in aviation after the war but fate had other things in store).

    I do understand that passengers want their pilot to look like Peter Graves or James Arness, not Woody Allen or Gene Wilder. Fortunately my father did have a kind of Robert Vaughnish look.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  282. Surprised you didn’t mention Denzel Washington’s 2012 movie, “Flight”, in which Denzel saves the day while his white co-pilot panics (maybe someone else in the comments has). I always took it to be an in-kind contribution to the Obama election campaign – Obama/Denzel saves the country/flight that is totally turned upside down and gets attacked for it.

  283. @Rich

    “What’s in it for you guys to go after the experienced pilot who probably flew in these conditions scores of times? ..”

    So why did he crash the plane this time?

  284. Mr Mox says:

    267 posts and still no Dino & Foster? Here goes:

    • LOL: 36 ulster
  285. @Jack D

    “… The only thing that stops them is if, through the legal system, you make the cost of doing the wrong thing higher than the cost of doing the right thing ..”

    There are alternatives to contingency fee lawsuits if that is what you are referring to.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  286. JimDandy says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    I’d get on a plane piloted by that POC any time.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  287. Cido says:
    @AnotherDad

    Absent sex, women–and the stuff they are interested in–is simply not very interesting to us. Without the desire for sex/children/family … men would be doing their cool stuff and women would be living in caves and gathering berries.

    Women have different interests from men. There are obvious differences from the interest of makeup and clothes by women, to the interests in cars and sports by men. The recognition of those innocous issues generally are not looked as prejudices.
    But, it’s bad to say nowadays that men are more interested in noble issues like science, technology,politics or any intellectual pursuits than women.
    I ask myself how many commentators here in isteve are women ? Of course, because as a “far right” blog, it’s only interesting for white men. But even in more general places, like the mainstream news comment sections, the majority of commentators are men.
    On broad intellectual achievements like Wikipedia, even in the English version, has fewer than 15% of the contributions from women.
    Often, people say this occours because of prejudices…

  288. There’s another seemingly harmless cloud on the horizon, certainly in the UK – the increasing (although pumped up by media, it seems nonetheless to be real) popularity of women’s sports like rugby and soccer, traditionally male games which attract traditionally male women (and traditionally male behaviour).

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3209281/top-female-footie-stars-caught-up-in-pub-brawl-after-one-flirted-with-anothers-girlfriend-during-gay-pride-booze-up/

    “A court heard how trouble flared when Millwall’s Frankie Strugnell started flirting with teammate Leah Jones. Leah’s girlfriend, Arsenal defender Jemma Rose, then lost her temper and a fight broke out at the Montagu Pyke pub in Soho, central London. It spilled on to the street where football coach Anna Rains was punched hard in the face, splitting her eyebrow.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/apr/24/uk-government-to-launch-in-depth-review-of-womens-football-in-summer

    The sports minister Nigel Huddleston has confirmed that the government will launch an in-depth review of domestic women’s football this summer with the aim of helping it close the gap with the men’s game.

    The review comes as the women’s game gears up for a high-profile summer, with England hosting the Euros and the final being held at Wembley. More than 350,000 of the 700,000 tickets available for the tournament had been sold during pre-sales and a public ballot window, which means that the tournament has already past the record of 240,045 tickets sold for Euro 2017 in the Netherlands.

    In a statement issued on Saturday evening, Huddleston said: “Women’s football is a growing force. The 2019 World Cup captured the hearts and minds of the nation, and with greater participation, employment and visibility in the media, I am confident that Euro 2022 will inspire more women and girls to get into our national game as we work towards parity across all sport.

    “Despite these positive signs for the game, it is clear that an assessment of the value of the women’s and girl’s game is needed, to ensure it is properly financed for the long-term.”

    But it’s women’s rugby, the male game of male games, which is really worrying. At least female soccer players look like athletes. Rugby forwards are more based on bulk and upper body strength, which women can find attractive in men, but which very few men find attractive in women.

    Sex symbol Sebastien Chabal. England rugby captain Will Carling managed to attract Princess Diana.

    England’s rugby women beat Ireland’s rugby women 69-0 on the weekend.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61207601

    England produced another dominant Women’s Six Nations victory as they beat Ireland 69-0 in front of a second successive record crowd. Depleted Ireland’s brave defence kept England to two tries in the first half.

    The Red Roses came out stronger after the break, rewarding the crowd with another nine tries to set up a Grand Slam decider in France on Saturday. The 15,836 Welford Road fans surpassed the record of 14,689 for a ticketed England home game set in Gloucester.

    Who are these people watching women’s rugby? I remember taking my daughter to an England Women’s cricket game, and the crowd was about 80, most of whom were related to the players. Is it something to be proud of, having the biggest, toughest women?

    Here’s Englands player of the match – Marlie Packer. I’m sure her family and friends love her, but I think Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle need have little fear about their princes straying.

  289. @Danindc

    Both labor groups are unionized, in sectors of the economy that are dominated by government regulations (pub ed @100%). The pay scales aren’t criminal, but rather, the products of the gov’s organized crime racket.

  290. Jack D says:
    @Known Fact

    He planned to stay in aviation after the war but fate had other things in store

    I have heard stories that a lot of Jewish guys who were military pilots during WWII were unable to get airline jobs after the war. A lot of people here scoff at the idea that there was ever such a thing as anti-Jewish discrimination in America or that it only involved country club membership and not anything important (if there was discrimination, how did the Jews get to be so rich?) but up until the late 1950s it was quite common in corporate America and did not disappear completely until it was made illegal in the the ’60s.

    Here is an interesting story of another Jewish-American WWII pilot.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/nyregion/bomber-pilot-christmas-trees.html

    The answer to his question of how did he get to be so rich is that, frozen out of getting a job as an airline pilot, he invented the artificial Christmas tree. His story strikes some other familiar notes for Greatest Generation American Jews – despite being a Communist in his youth, he became a wealthy industrialist.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
  291. @Jack D

    The artificial Christmas Tree! This is reminiscent of the long list of beloved Christmas songs penned by Jews. Anyway I can assure you that my father was not frozen out of aviation, he bizarrely stumbled onto another line of work and became a business success and technical innovator in that field. He was an incredibly handy guy in numerous ways.

    The wider point that strikes me about the pressure for aviation “diversity” is that you see the same playbook in various professions and disciplines. White men painstakingly build a compendium of know-how over decades, generations, even centuries — then when all the hard work has been done, women and minorities swoop in to demand their seat at the table.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  292. Jack D says:
    @Rich

    It’s common practice for experienced pilots to speak to each other when flying.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterile_flight_deck_rule

    If they do this below 10,000 ft it is a violation of FAA rules. Sure if you are in level flight at altitude (or even climbing above 10,000 ft with the plane on autopilot) and flight conditions are normal then it’s OK for the pilots to chit chat – there’s not much else for them to do and if they had to sit there in silence for 5 or 6 hours they might go nuts from boredom. But Colgan 3407 was on final approach and the wings were icing up. Not a good time to be shooting the breeze.

  293. @Coemgen

    why do so many nursing baccalaureate programs have such low acceptance rates?

    I am so sick and tired of credentials, licenses, i.e. restrictions on labor competition that are imposed by the government, in collusion with special interests.

    [We] don’t need physicians with 4+ years of training after medical school (itself a racket).

    We don’t need nurses — glorified orderlys — with four-year degrees (PhDs!).

    (We don’t need schoolteachers with MAs and 12 credits of continuing education each year.)

    All this progressivist interference accomplishes is to protect the incomes of established practitioners at the expense of consumers (and taxpayers).

    • Disagree: notsaying
    • Replies: @notsaying
    , @acementhead
  294. bomag says:
    @Alden

    The world wasn’t in a position to supply many White Protestants circa 1924 onward.

    As Steve has noted, internal and external immigrants tend to gravitate to the places with generous public assistance. We would probably have gotten the same internal migrants plus more foreign grifters.

    When it comes to productive workers, we should raise up our own; or do without.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  295. @PiltdownMan

    Emirates entered the business to grow big quick.

    Like a new, well-heeled, upstart restaurant poaching chefs and short-order cooks, Emirates lured a lot of pilots away from established airlines in order to put Dubai on the map.

    They also wanted to poach lucrative routes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  296. @Alden

    Most people think the 1920s immigration restrictions were the best thing for America.

    It was good for the whitest states, as it hastened the assimilation of the immigrants already here. It was good for the blackest states, too, as it hastened the departure of their blacks. (The black percentage of South Carolina and Mississippi is about half what it was in 1900 or 1850.)

    For the big urban states, it was a mixed bag.

    What’s worse, an orthodox or catholic Slav with an IQ of 99 or a black American with an IQ of 80?

    In the 1920s, the Klan actively recruited Slovaks in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin to fight the alien Irish, French, and Germans in the area. The Slovaks, you see, being Lutheran, were more American.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Corvinus
  297. @GeologyAnonMk5

    Alternately we could scale down to an air force that country actually needs and could afford.

    • Replies: @GeologyAnonMk5
  298. @Jack D

    Plus modern jets have highly automated systems that work MOST of the time.

    The joke is that pilots are overpaid every day of their careers except one. But they make up for it all on that day.

    • Replies: @Recently Based
  299. @Coemgen

    I think the requirements at that University are higher than normal, and probably they are aiming at producing future managers.

    Prerequisites in subjects like microbiology, biochemistry, and math weed out a lot of candidates.

    I don’t think high schoolers these days learn a lot of mental arithmetic agility of the type necessary to be able to calculate, or at least verify and check, things like dosages of drugs and intravenous infusion rates.

    Girls who cannot calculate the correct dosage of ivermectin for a Chihuahua using paper and pencil, which is not particularly difficult for anybody with mathematical or scientific bent, will probably not make the cut.

    Also above average vocabulary, literacy, and reading skills are fairly important to be able to understand and use medical terminology, discuss medical conditions with doctors, take down verbal orders from doctors over the phone and write them down correctly, read medical and lab reports, and to distinguish between drugs that have similar but different names.

    I would think that the high school grade point averages required would depend a lot on the overall quality of education in high schools in a particular state.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  300. @Anon

    In other words, you’re advocating for a 3rd-world airline, just like a 3rd-world country.

    Third-world airlines might help bring about our return to a First-world society. Until corrected (with stats and sources), I’ll assume male pilots have larger families than most men, while female pilots have smaller ones than most women.

    Intersectionality– AA restricted to those both female and minority– now works in our favor!

    Just remember to take your vacations by boat, train, or automobile.

  301. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Slovaks, you see, being Lutheran, were more American.

    This is sort of the exception that proves the rule. Most Slavs are not Protestant. Blacks BTW ARE Protestant so the Klan didn’t look JUST at religion.

    I don’t think the ’24 Immigration Act had as big an impact as many here think. Starting in ’29, the Depression made immigration unfavorable anyway and then there was WWII and the Cold War. Maybe there would have been more European immigration from ’24 to ’29 but after that it would have mostly dried up anyway. After WWI, the Soviet Union was mostly closed off anyway although I recently came across documents related to one of my wife’s relatives getting family members out of the USSR (Ukraine) in the 1920s, so it was not completely impossible at that point.

    • Agree: Goddard
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  302. @Coemgen

    Thank God that the Philippines has schools that can train to that high a standard at 10% of the cost.

    • Agree: Coemgen
  303. @Achmed E. Newman

    For some reason I thought the Dash 8 was made by Bombardier. Thanks. ☮

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  304. @Achmed E. Newman

    “That’s the story, and he’s, well, if not sticking to it, never, never gonna admit he was dead wrong, that’s for damn sure.”

    Speaking of stuffing more vaj into the cockpit: inability to admit error is deeply feminine, whilst admitting error is masculine. Take note, Ron, Steve, and the various and assorted Vax Covidiots round these parts…. viz:

    300K total covid deaths February 2021.
    900K total covid deaths February 2022.

    There is no vaccine for a coronavirus, it is unobtainium, Q.E.D.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  305. Brutusale says:
    @Coemgen

    A lack of nursing school instructors. Why would a nursing BS go to grad school for a MS in nursing to make \$90K-\$100K with the added student loan debt when she could immediately go to work as a nurse and start at \$82K, the current starting salary at my girlfriend’s hospital?

  306. @Anonymous

    High altitude mix Purple Drank.

  307. Rob says:

    Just the name “cockpit” is exclusionary to transfolx whose genitals are neither properly “cocks” nor “pits.” Perhaps we should start referring to it as the cockpiteverythinginbetween?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  308. @Adam Smith

    B0mbardier bought De Havilland, Adam. That must have been a while back, so one can call it either way, I guess – like a 717, which is purely a Douglas Long Beach-built aircraft but has the B717 designation due to Boeing buying up that part of McDonnell Douglas.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  309. @Jack D

    Blacks BTW ARE Protestant so the Klan didn’t look JUST at religion.

    In the townships I researched, there was a single black family which was accepted, or at least tolerated. The ’20s Klan was little more than a money-making scam, and in the far north there was no money in targeting blacks. In small cities and towns, the trick was to rile up local businessmen about the Roman threat. In Minneapolis it would have been Jews, but there the Klan wasn’t necessary. The existing powers structure already took care of that.

  310. @Rob

    For anybody who questions my use of the term “cockpit” my answer is “what are you thinking of? Get your mind out of the gutter!”

  311. @beavertales

    Emirates entered the business to grow big quick.

    And to buy into the Premier League.

    They weren’t the last.

  312. @Brutusale

    Right, Brutusale! It’s a scam to get more bodies into the Nursing schools for longer – a jobs program for Nursing PhDs. The nurse in my family has only an Associates and the RN. She just doesn’t want to go back to school, but is worried for the case in which she were to change jobs.

    I ran into a guy who’s a professor at the Nursing School nearby who told me that they’ve been trying to push this mandatory BSN for employment for 50 years! It may really be taking now, as the hospitals keep telling nurses that, but we’re not sure.

    There’s not a damn thing you’re gonna learn in those 2 additional years and \$20,000* that will help you be a better nurse. The Associates program included basic medical stuff of which 90% is usually forgotten, as with Doctors, and then a decent amount of clinical training. She had to work with other women to get through that, and she hated that because the marks can be subjective, and they can be vindictive. (In one class, the lady just didn’t like her, and if she hadn’t withdrawn, she’d have failed her soon enough.)

    .

    * It’s not expensive where we live, but the opportunity costs could add up to 5 x as much – and that’s at part time money. That’s not to mention the aggravation with school.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  313. Rob says:
    @Almost Missouri

    There’s also the matter of first class tickets being so pricy. It might be worth it to sell five fewer coach tickets if one guy upgrades to first class. I don’t know this is true, but it’s where I’d bet.

  314. @bomag

    As Steve has noted, internal and external immigrants tend to gravitate to the places with generous public assistance.

    Where was this available in 1924?

    • Replies: @bomag
  315. notsaying says:
    @Abolish_public_education

    It took every bit of knowledge, experience and strength they had — and more — for hospital doctors and nurses with Covid patients to keep them alive over the past two years. Some patients did die of course but most are still with us. I am sure that their training — ALL of it — had a lot to do with that.

    A registered nurse is far from being a glorified orderly.

    How many public school systems require all their teachers to have Masters degrees? I have never heard of that.

    • LOL: Liberty Mike
  316. The diversity insanity never ends.

  317. notsaying says:
    @Brutusale

    Salaries for most nurse practitioners are higher than \$100,000. In 2021 the bottom 25% made less than \$99,500. Median was around \$120,000 and the top 10% made around \$163,000.

    Not everyone goes for the Masters but it seems like the extra education would pay off.

    https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291171.htm

  318. @J.Ross

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-me-defend-myself-against-karen

    Here’s a link to her youtube channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/c/MAMAAFRICAMUSLIMAH275/videos

    Pretty lucrative scam.

    (You’re using the wrong image link if you want your images to show up here on Unz.)

    • Thanks: J.Ross
  319. @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, Achmed. Apparently De Havilland Canada was bought by Bombardier Aerospace in 1992 (from Boeing). In November 2018, Viking Air’s holding company, Longview Aviation Capital, announced the acquisition of the Q400 program, along with the rights to the de Havilland name and trademark.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  320. Jack D says:
    @Known Fact

    The Christmas decoration business is, believe it or not, a Jewish dominated business. I once, many years ago, had a case involving a company called Mr. Christmas. I think the owner called the company Mr. Christmas because Mr. Rabinowitz would not have had the same ring.

    In Philadelphia, the leading vendor of Christmas decorations is called Kindy’s, which is short for Kinderman.

    Up to the 1970s, making and wholesaling Christmas decorations was the sort of light manufacturing and distribution that was a popular niche among Jews in the Northeast, along with garment manufacturing. You didn’t need huge capital like for a steel mill or auto factory. I knew another Jewish guy who had a paintbrush factory for the same reasons. You just had to be nimble and keep up with the latest trends and fashions. Eventually this type of manufacturing moved mostly to China and the Jews either retired or transitioned to be importers rather than manufacturers.

    The tradition of Jews selling souvenirs to Christian pilgrims has deep roots:

    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/jewish-souvenir-vendors-wear-yellow-stars-of-david-in-rome-protest-436316

  321. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “It was good for the whitest states, as it hastened the assimilation of the immigrants already here”

    Not good for those whites who were Eastern and Southern European descent.

    “the 1920s, the Klan actively recruited Slovaks in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin to fight the alien Irish, French, and Germans in the area.”

    Not alien, just competitors for gimme dats and free stuff.

    “The Slovaks, you see, being Lutheran, were more American.”

    According to Who/Whom?

  322. Jack D says:
    @James B. Shearer

    Government lawsuits have the same effect:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/business/boeing-settlement-justice-department.html

    If Boeing had taken the \$2.5 billion fine into account in advance, then saving \$1 million/ aircraft by not having to pay the customers to retrain their pilots on how to properly operate the 737 Max with a not-secret MCAS system wouldn’t have seemed like a good way to save money. For \$2.5 billion they could have even put dual angle of attack sensors on each plane and a warning light/turned off the MCAS if the sensors disagreed.

    My Jamaican carpenter used to tell me that “the cheapest is the dearest” (dearest meaning most expensive in Britspeak). Because when you try to cheap out it always ends up costing you MORE in the end.

    You have to take into account the TOTAL LONG TERM costs of any action (including the subsequent fines and lawsuits and punitive damages) and not just the 5 cents/ share you are going to book on your next quarterly financials by positioning the gas tank directly behind the bumper. Unfortunately, corporate compensation is most often tied to the latter so the guys running the company have perverse incentives.

  323. anarchyst says:
    @Gamecock

    Airbus has always had its flight systems defer to the on-board computers. In fact, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to manually fly the plane beyond accepted flight parameters as the computers will not allow it, even if doing so would prevent an accident or crash.
    This is not the case with Boeing aircraft which can be flown beyond the normal flight parameters without difficulty.
    It would appear that the European philosophy is to not trust their pilots…

  324. Alfa158 says:
    @Jean-Baptiste Moquelin

    To be fair, I would hold off on judging her at fault until an investigation. The first female F-14 pilot, Kara Hultgreen, died in a crash in 1994 and in that case it was determined to be her error. She had struggled to get and remain qualified for carrier operations, and in the fatal crash she screwed up on the approach, flaming out one engine then responded the wrong way to the emergency.
    In the case of the recent F-35 crashes they may have been glitches in the aircraft’s highly automated systems or sensors. The plane has something like 90 million lines of software code and the plane started flying before completing validation. Apparently the final approach and trap in the F-35 is done hands-off by the automated systems with the pilot just riding along. More recently a Japanese F-35 flown by an experienced male pilot simply descended into the ground during a night flight.
    I would withhold judgment on the F-35 pilots until the crashes have been studied.

  325. Rob says:

    I forget who said it, (not this thread) but an isteve commenter said that the price of getting our country back will be admitting that we were wrong about unions. He didn’t say how to get Congress to give unions some power, though.

    A very strong case can be made that specialized careers in industries with very few employers need unions. If there are two manufacturers in your state that employ Swiss machinists, you’ve put years of apprenticeship into the skills required. But your employer can say, “Jim Bob, Swiss machinist jobs pay so well that there’s been a glut of people looking to make \$60/hour in manufacturing jobs. So, we’re cutting your rate from \$60/hour to &20, or you can take early retirement (so we can get rid of a defined benefit pensioner cheaply) Then, that dude is out his comfortable retirement, some dude who has put years into the apprenticeship is looking at a much lower return on his time invested. It’s not like a college degree that will catapult you into a middle-class profession protected by government regulation. It doesn’t give you the “management experience” that the pro-man class has convinced itself is 100% portable, though it certainly is not.

    Piloting commercial jets works the same way, except there are about 5 carriers in the country. There are regional airlines, but you buy a United ticket, but in the fine print will be, “this flight is not operated or owned by United. It is a HappiSkies Inc, a United Affiliate airline. But United gets the ticket price, so who knows what they pay their rinky-dink pilots. Remember a few years back, some airline was all, “with simulator “experience” we can turn any unemployed bum into a fully qualified pilot who’ll accept 10 bucks an hour”? That was pure union-busting. So are black pilots. That, or they are expecting to hire African pilots as immigrant scabs.

    [MORE]

    American workers have a very crabs-in-a-bucket mentality toward people with high-paying jobs. I think it’s because someone making 30 grand a year can see how much better (he thinks) his life would be if he made 40. But to anyone below, I dunno, 250k a year, if they aren’t math-y, has to work kinda hard to remember that a billion is a 1,000 million. But the people pulling in a million a year are not working for a salary of \$1,000,000/year. They own something that produces returns. Sometimes passive returns. It’s somewhat confounded in people’s minds because many very rich people do have jobs. Often managing their money and some friends’ money. But it’s just like their “meritocratic” high-end degrees. J. Kushner went to Harvard, but he’s not Harvard material. When I read that his father stiffed Harvard on 6 of his 10 years of annual donations after Jared graduated, I smiled. Bet they demand lump-sums now. Kinda surprised Harvard didn’t arrange a late-breaking cheating scandal to strip Kushner’s degree. Harvard admins are not Harvard material, either.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Jack D
  326. AceDeuce says:
    @Jack D

    …how to properly operate the 737 Max with a not-secret MCAS system wouldn’t have seemed like a good way to save money. For \$2.5 billion they could have even put dual angle of attack sensors on each plane ….

    I think that the Max has always had 2 AOA sensors. The issue was that only one of them was wired to MCAS.

  327. @Corvinus

    So essentially you are agreeing with me that there is a shortage of workers for a number of reasons.

    If there is a “shortage”, why aren’t wages rising rapidly? And if they are, why would you want to stop them?

  328. @notsaying

    How many public school systems require [MA]?

    None that I’ve heard of, but they will give a raise (i.e. more spending) to a teacher who acquires one. As if a babysitter with a graduate degree sits better than a 14 year old who’s still in eighth grade.

    I’m not buying that line about our heroic, licensed, healthcare professionals. Your bias is that had they not intervened, that the patients would have died. My bias is that the intervention either did nothing to affect the patient’s outcome (e.g. he would have survived anyway or his cancer still would have killed him), or else the treatment itself killed him.

    • Replies: @notsaying
  329. @Bill Jones

    Lagos on the Chesapeake

    Nice.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  330. @Gary in Gramercy

    Aw c’mon, Gary in G! Basic posting etiquette means you’ve got to show the clip!

  331. @Inquiring Mind

    No. If you were to speed, e.g., the FHP could ticket you. Happened to a friend.

  332. @International Jew

    I am not going to allow the guys with the hard ons for strong man Putin to sprinkle their bullshit

    I’m not a Putin fanboy or anything but I do have to call you out on that mixed metaphor.

    Maybe he’s suggesting a connection between Putinphilia and Coprophilia.

  333. @Rob

    Sigh… (and I don’t do that often here).

    But United gets the ticket price, so who knows what they pay their rinky-dink pilots.

    For the umpteenth time, they get paid pretty good right now (I gave some numbers) – not stupid-high like a Captain of a 777, but very decent, and they are not rinky-dink. They fly to the same Part 121 rules as the majors.

    Speaking of the major airlines, no, there are not just 5. There are only 3 “legacy” carriers, Delta (that used to be Delta and Northwest), American (that used to be American and US Air), and United (that used to be United and Continental) – the mergers all happened from ~ 15 to 10 years back. Then, there are Southwest, Alaska, Hawaiian, Spirit, Allegiant, Jet Blue, and Frontier. These companies have LOTS of planes, from 160 (Allegiant, the smallest of these ones) to 750 (Southwest, largest) Just because they don’t go overseas and some don’t have anything but coach seats doesn’t mean they aren’t pretty big.

    Then there are UPS and FedEx, as far as pilots go, not passengers, of course.

    This is not at all to question your point on unions.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  334. @Achmed E. Newman

    Spirit and JetBlue go overseas. So does Frontier.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  335. @Abolish_public_education

    I am so sick and tired of credentials, licenses, i.e. restrictions on labor competition that are imposed by the government, in collusion with special interests.

    I am also. Have been for decades.

    The economic damage done by government mandates for hugely excessive ‘education’ is vast. Aviation is, I think, about the only government controlled area where excessive education is not required(until a few years ago when the US required ATPL for an airline F/O. That’s bullshit.) Let the market decide I say.

    “All professions are conspiracies against the laity.” George Bernhard Shaw, The Doctor’s Dilemma.

    https://quotlr.com/archive/quote/38690
    https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1460249

    • Disagree: notsaying
  336. Jack D says:
    @Rob

    The major airlines are highly unionized and the pilots union is very powerful. No plane flies without a pilot and you can’t hire pilots off the street corner like assembly line workers. So when the pilots go on strike, nothing moves. Even if there was only 1 airline, they would still be powerful. Pilots like safety but they also like the fact that you need years of training plus 1,500 hours of flight time to be an Air Transport Pilot – cuts down on competition that way. So I don’t know what your point is.

    In the US, until very recently the majors were able to hire people whose training had been paid for by someone else – the military or the student himself.

    In Europe for a while now, airlines have been hiring “ab initio” pilots. The Luftwaffe not being what it once was, they don’t have a big source of military trained pilots. This means that they DO hire you off of the street corner and they pay to send you to pilot school in exchange for your agreement to fly for them for some period (which generally means your whole career*). After they train you (a 2 year process), first you have to gain your 1,500 hours as a flight instructor or something not involving carrying passengers (another 2 years) and then you have to work for their regional subsidiary for a while. From street corner to the cockpit of a 7×7 or Airbus takes many years so while they are paid nicely it’s like being a doctor – you have to put in a lot of years at no or low pay before you start to make the big bucks and then you are done at 65 no matter what kind of shape you are in.

    Oddly enough, the European carriers usually do their ab initio training in the US. Flight schools are usually somewhere where it doesn’t snow a lot like Florida or Arizona.

    *One of the quirks of the pilot system is that you don’t take your seniority with you to another airline and the most senior guys get their pick of flights. So switching jobs sends you to the bottom of the seniority ladder and instead of flights to Paris you get the red-eye from Omaha to Cleveland.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Rob
  337. @Jack D

    “… Because when you try to cheap out it always ends up costing you MORE in the end.”

    No, it sometimes ends up costing you more in the end. Boeing probably was cheap in dozens of ways on that plane but we are only hearing about the case where it didn’t work. Because the design was stupid in ways that had nothing to with saving money.

  338. Rob says:
    @Jack D

    Sure, Jack, that’s best for the corporations owners, but owners chose the board of directors and participate in any profit distributions. They don’t make decisions like, “what kind of tilt sensor failsafe does each plane need?” Executives make those decisions. Executives are paid in stock options, plus salary and bonuses. The option is to buy at a particular price on a certain date. I don’t know how long they have to hold stock before they can sell it, but I’ll bet the FEC will accept “I sold it immediately to build a better-diversified portfolio” as a reason for you to sell the very day you exercise your option, especially if you do it every time you can exercise an option.

    It’s not even clear who the stockholders should want to be held to account. Little fish jump when big fish tell them to. Who was the highest-up person who decided “saving a million/plane is worthwhile”? Did his boss give him verbal instructions to “cut corners on safety precautions if you have to”? Plus, it is probably Boeing customers who balk at higher prices for safety systems. Who is to say that they would not have bought a plane that is less safe overall had the 737-MAX been more expensive?

    I think we need a solution for regulators being too cozy with the nominally regulated. No one needs to do something so crass as bribe the current FAA commissioner. He’s a bright guy, he knows the former commissioner works 10 hours a month as a \$400k/year “consultant.” He can figure out that if he makes industry even happier, he could be looking at \$500k/year. I don’t know how far down in the hierarchy cushy post-retirement gigs for FAA personnel go, but I’ll bet it is pretty far. If I were Boeing or an airline, I’d pay former FAA employees who worked on regulating plane safety very well indeed.

    I think that system needs to be ended. It is almost worst to be corrupt on spec as to take bribes on a fee-for-service basis. The same applies to former Congresscritters. Perhaps Congress and bureaucrats should be paid a lot more in exchange for not taking paying gigs with corporations they were in a position to help out. If corporate America throws a fit, and they will, require them to pay the same rates for all the former regulators for the same length of time, regardless of whether they were happy with their regulatory decisions. Perhaps, though, the government should pay competitively with the private sector?

    [MORE]

    I remember my AP government class had a section on the “Iron Triangle” or maybe “Golden Triangle” of former generals working for defense contractors in retirement. Maybe it was to make citizens aware of the problem, but it certainly made people who wanted to work in government aware of the opportunity.

    On another note, you know how deferred gratification correlates at something like, I want to say, 0.8? It occurred to me that jobs can get smarter applicants and deter dumber ones by rear-loading compensation. There is the matter of trust. Do you think the organization will be around in x years to make good on the promise? But governments usually will be. Does the high pension relative to income encourage better (smarter) people to become police? Also, the lower your discount rate, the better retiring after twenty years looks. Maybe the same applies to teachers? Not that teachers or cops ate extremely bright, but we’d get even dumber people in both occupations if it weren’t for the good pensions.

    To tie this to the post, a lot of the pathway to becoming a pilot is tough and doesn’t pay well. Years in the military don’t pay well, though my dad says that while military members don’t get paid much, the military covers a lot of living expenses, so smart people in the military can invest a huge chunk of their salaries. I do wonder, though, if they pay a lot more of the living expenses of doctors than they do for most other people, especially non-officers. Is the long and low-paying path to making the money of a major passenger airline a way that ensures pilots are smarter than if the path were more well-compensated?

    Everyone old enough remembers that teachers were smarter when they were younger, but that was mostly because the employment opportunities for middle-class+ women were so limited. I think smart women having better opportunities than they used to is behind teachers becoming so CRT-pushing. Their logic goes something like, “people say blacks are stupid, but they said I was stupid, but I got a college degree, so I must be smart. Therefore, everyone people say is dumb is not really dumb.” I’m pretty sure that math made the current educrats, especially the minority ones, feel dumb when they were in school, so they ideologically believe that everyone has equal mathematical ability. This is probably especially common amongst female educators, as girls are faster calculators, and male mathematical superiority starts after grade school.

  339. @Jonathan Mason

    Thanks. I think I recall JetBlue going to Europe, but I don’t mean over the Gulf of Mexico to Cancun or to Central America. Only the guys with the widebodies go to Asia or from the US far into Europe or way down into S. America.

    None of the airlines besides those 3 legacy ones and Hawaiian have widebodies. They have a much greater range. (Although the 757, best airliner every built, can do a lot too if you want it to. I don’t think any of the ones I mentioned have 75’s.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  340. @Jack D

    Pretty good take on things this time, Jack.

    My only quibble is that, yes, without an ATP, you still can carry passengers, including for hire. With a Commercial certificate, you can fly corporate (as big an airplane as it happens to be, even a 747 for some Sheik), charter, or skydivers. I’m not sure the last ones can be considered passengers – some call them “meat bombs”.

    One can get a Commercial license with 250 hours, or even less in an appropriate flight school, and someone with the right luck and access to airplanes could get that many hours in less than a year.

    As I keep on saying, it’s very, very good right now.

    .

    PS: Florida is flying heaven not because of no snow. It’s just visual conditions almost all the time – those T-storms come in at 3P and are gone by 5P very often. Then, it’s flat as a pancake so, in the days before GPS and terrain databases, if you got low to scud run and lost, it’s be a very unlucky day if you hit an antenna. In states with mountains, if you get lost scud-running it’s your lucky day if you don’t hit the rocks.

    Florida is also skydive heaven, simple because of the warm weather and visual conditions too.

    Oh, and on the east coast you could be at 3,000 ft, and almost be in gliding distance (for engine failure) from an airport all the way from Fernandina to Miami!

  341. Rob says:
    @Jack D

    You don’t see how an airline requiring pilots to work for that airline for their entire career opens the door for even a little exploitation on the part of the airline?

    You’re a lawyer. Did you work for a firm? Were you a partner? Do you see that if your firm could require a lawyer to work for them for his entire career, then that firm would not have to offer the lawyers who cannot work for someone else partnerships?

    If you had an employee who could not work for anyone else, are you sure you would pay him market rates?

    Did you not read the comment about the copilot who was making less than a full-time minimum wage salary? You don’t think airlines would do that again if they could?

    Trapped employees need unions because they are slaves otherwise.

    Look at it the other way if your self-interest prevents you from understanding the point. When a corporation is legally required to pay all the employees union wages, is it possible that the unions would extract more from the corporation than the employees would get paid in a free market?

    When there is not a free labor market, then free-market principles do not apply. There need to be lots of employers for employees to experience a free market in which to sell their labor.

    When there is not a free labor market, workers need unions. You seriously cannot understand the point?

    I would be perfectly happy with large corporations being broken up into lots, maybe 15-20, competing companies so that labor is sold on a free market, and goods and services are sold in a free market. Yet, companies like mergers. Why? Why do they like mergers, if not to capture some of the economic surpluses that would otherwise go to workers and consumers? If twenty companies are not enough to free up the market, split each one into two more.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  342. @Jonathan Mason

    For once, I will agree with you JM. My daughter just completed a BS in nursing and she had to learn an astonishing ton of stuff. I was talking to her today about some med my dog was taking and she knew all about it. The profession has changed and so have the requirements, prodded no doubt by the trial lawyers.

  343. Hibernian says:
    @AceDeuce

    I think with the exception of a few extreme hell raisers, the selection for ability to think on your feet, react to emergencies, etc., would at least make up for the grater difference from what they flew in the service, if not more than make up for it. Maybe a little extra transition training required, which would be worth it or more than worth it. Another poster used the analogy of NASCAR drivers drivign for JB Hunt. Maybe with the exception of the most extreme risk takers, they’d be the best ones.

    • Agree: 36 ulster
    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  344. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @HammerJack

    It only takes one incompetent, but determined, person in your cockpit, and all can be lost.

    I had just as shitty a flight as this one, going from Rio to NYC.

    Except for the crash. But imagine rightfully believing you were going to crash for about 6 full hours.

    The pilots were stupid fucking assholes. Never seen the likes of them before or since. Violations galore during the flight, on a MAJOR CARRIER! I could have got them fired, but it was too complicated.

    Anyway, if these were the same guys, they had it coming…

  345. Hibernian says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    Wouldn’t an overuse of the rudder, extreme enough to cause the rudder to fall off, create instability, and cause a crash that way, first? Wouldn’t the Captain tell the First Officer, “You’re over using the rudder?”

  346. @AnotherDad

    You’ve read your Ayn Rand.

    (I have, too. She may have a nut in real life, but she correctly identified the parasitic classes.)

  347. Jack D says:
    @Rob

    As I explained, yes the airlines are a cartel that exist to screw the passengers but then pilot’s union (and the other airline unions) are a labor cartel that exists to screw the airlines. The cumulative return on equity of the US airline industry over the last 80 years is zero. When things are good, the labor cartel puts the squeeze on them to give them all the profits in the form of higher wages and when things are bad (oil price shock, Covid, recession, etc.) , nobody makes any money. Every once in a while the government throw some bail0ut money in. As a matter of fact, in the long run no one has ever made any money carrying passengers, not railroads, not mass transit, etc. In the end the government has to subsidize it so that people can get around. If buses are profitable it’s only because they ride for (almost) free on the highways.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Thanks: Johann Ricke, bomag
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  348. Wouldn’t an overuse of the rudder, extreme enough to cause the rudder to fall off, create instability, and cause a crash that way, first?

    No, obviously not. The NTSB investigated. They had the flight data recorder. They got it right.

    Wouldn’t the Captain tell the First Officer, “You’re over using the rudder?”

    Yes a competent captain would say that, or better still say ” I have control”. That is why I said in my comment at April 25, 2022 at 8:41 am GMT *

    “Flight 587 crash was 100% certainly caused by incompetent pilots.”

    Note the plural; it was an incompetent captain paired with an incompetent co-pilot(F/O). It is the PIC’s job to ensure safe completion of the flight NO MATTER WHAT. That means that even an uncontemplated emergency can often be overcome by a highly skilled pilot when it will not be by a below average or even average pilot. And no Super Sully did not do a magnificent job; he made a number of serious errors which I have previously listed.

    *https://www.unz.com/isteve/uh-oh-the-end-of-the-all-male-all-white-cockpit/#comment-5308526

  349. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian

    Wouldn’t an overuse of the rudder, extreme enough to cause the rudder to fall off, create instability, and cause a crash that way, first? Wouldn’t the Captain tell the First Officer, “You’re over using the rudder?”

    Good engineering, that is, over-engineering of parts that, if they fail, means unrecoverable catastrophe, should be baked into the tail rudder. You shouldn’t be able to snap it in the course of fairly normal flying. Or even unusual flying for a period of time. It’s not like they were in a power dive at 30,000 feet. But even if if they were, I would expect the rudder to remain intact.

    The fact that the rudder could snap that easily, via a simple misjudgment, on an aircraft that large, is kind of terrifying. I would deem it unacceptable, to say the least. It means any misguided pilot can inadvertantly plop that plane at any time. I had no idea that’s what they claimed happened. Probably because of no public outrage, I guess.

  350. @Herp McDerp

    I called Atlas Air a few months ago to congratulate them on their stunning and brave commitment to diversity, citing 3591. I asked how many qualified pilots were brushed aside to put Aska in the right seat, later admitting that such antics could be quite entertaining, in a Roman Colosseum sense, from a safe distance.

    Another point is that Aska’s limited abilites may have brought a new phenomenon to the fore: clear air spacial disorientation.

    Big jets need PiCs, not PoCs.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  351. @Anonymous

    It might have worked out good in Houston or the 31C approach to Chicago Midway. But you don’t want a 767 catching even a piece of your house. Keep in mind, it’s the same plane that hit the WTC, and the PiC PoC had it doing about the same speed on impact.

  352. @AnotherDad

    While I agree with your “War-on-the-other-side-of-the-world thread” suggestion, the Ukraine war is different because unlike those other wars, this one has potential to go nuclear in big way thereby rendering every other problem—and perhaps civilization itself—irrelevant. The potential isn’t huge, maybe only 1% to 10% (but that’s still a couple of orders of magnitude bigger than it would have been under the less idiotic and psychopathic politicians of only 30 years ago), but if it happens, the consequences are huge, so it warrants taking seriously.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  353. @Anon

    ‘…I’m not aware of any flying disasters from those two airlines.’

    Just so long as they’re not black.

  354. @Anonymous

    One Seven Zero, I am not going to look up the accident report, but the flight was scheduled to land after 11pm, may have been delayed due to weather. These two pilots slept in airports between flights, overworked, under paid. You tell me truthfully you couldn’t fall asleep in an hour.Stay safe.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
  355. @Almost Missouri

    that’s still a couple of orders of magnitude bigger than it would have been under the less idiotic and psychopathic politicians of only 30 years ago

    Or only 30 months ago.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  356. @Jack D

    As I explained, yes the airlines are a cartel that exist to screw the passengers but then pilot’s union (and the other airline unions) are a labor cartel that exists to screw the airlines. The cumulative return on equity of the US airline industry over the last 80 years is zero. When things are good, the labor cartel puts the squeeze on them to give them all the profits in the form of higher wages and when things are bad (oil price shock, Covid, recession, etc.) , nobody makes any money. Every once in a while the government throw some bail0ut money in. As a matter of fact, in the long run no one has ever made any money carrying passengers, not railroads, not mass transit, etc.

    Precisely. That is why Warren Buffett doesn’t invest in airlines. It’s like the old joke about how you become a millionaire. You start out a billionaire and buy an airline.

  357. @Bill Jones

    Lagos on the Chesapeake

    Just to the west of the state of Bidafra.

  358. @anonymous

    The NE establishment is terrified.

    “The NE [Asian] establishment is terrified.”

    我为你修好了。

  359. ZOG says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    More and more, it’s looking like DeSantis’s nomination to lose. He is not only a few decades younger than Trump, but he is much smarter and savvier. Trump is finished as a political force, anyway. He had his moment and he blew it.

  360. notsaying says:
    @Abolish_public_education

    Let me get this straight: You think it is better to stay home than to go to a hospital because no one and nothing there can make you better — but medical treatment can make things worse.

    Would you stay home if your appendix was ready to burst or if you had a broken leg with the bone poking out?

    How about pharmaceuticals? Do they all either do nothing or hurt you, too?

    Do seatbelts save lives or do they also do nothing or hurt you?

    Is there anything we can do to help others or ourselves or is everything futile except for the times when people make things worse?

    This is a whole new and unfamiliar perspective to me. How far can you take it or is it limitless?

  361. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You don’t HAVE to fly wide bodies over the Atlantic. For a while, Norwegian Air was flying 737s on transatlantic routes.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285883/norwegian-discontinues-boeing-737-trans-atlantic-service-in-mid-sep-2019/

    They stopped doing this for economic and not technical reasons.

    Admittedly these routes were right at the edge of what was possible and included only the shortest possible transatlantic routes – Ireland to New England or NY. Top range for a 737-800 is around 3500 statute miles and Shannon to Stewart is around 3000 miles. There are even longer range 737s.

    But they were not just single aisle aircraft (that’s old school – 707s flew this route for decades) but 2 engine. Under the modern ETOPS-180 rule, you can be up to 3 hours away from a diverted landing on a 2 engine plane and there’s nowhere over the north Atlantic where you are more than 3 hours away from an emergency landing.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  362. duncsbaby says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    We need to start fast-tracking green cards to all Haitians crossing the Rio Grande who have some piloting experience.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  363. @Buffalo Joe

    “…fall asleep ..”

    The accident report can be found here . There is no suggestion that the pilots fell asleep. It seems they were talking most of the flight. Often about “nonpertinent” things.

    It appears the stall warning system was set to activate at a higher speed than usual because of possible icing conditions. But the pilots didn’t adjust their airspeed appropriately or notice they were approaching the warning speed. The warning then activated (and the autopilot disconnected) although the airplane was not near stalling (as icing was only having a minimal effect on aircraft performance). The captain (pilot flying) increased power but also pulled up (exactly the wrong thing to do). This caused a stall. The stick pusher activated and attempted to push the nose down but the captain continued to pull up overriding the stick pusher and soon crashing the airplane. The first officer wasn’t helpful and in fact raised the flaps without orders which made things worse but probably not in a decisive way.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  364. duncsbaby says:
    @Pat Hannagan

    I liked one or two songs by the Rakes way back in the mid noughties. I think I downloaded their debut off of emusic circa 2005. I can’t believe they’re getting much sleep after pubs and clubs though. The song’s title reminds me of this song by another hard-driving new-wave type rock band from Britain who ultimately didn’t attain world conquest (late 80’s era):

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  365. @Hibernian

    Hibernian

    I replied to this comment but for some reason my comment* now numbered 367 did not ‘attach’ to yours.

    * https://www.unz.com/isteve/uh-oh-the-end-of-the-all-male-all-white-cockpit/#comment-5309815

  366. @Jack D

    I know all this, Jack. That’s why I said they can barely get into Europe, and it’s from those NE locations that are so much closer. In fact, the older 737 variants could not make it across this country even. They were meant to do what regional jets do, as the DC-9 was too.

    The narrow-bodied Airbuses are doing those shorter transatlantic routes too, but as I said, the 757 can do it all better. As for the technical capability, pilots who’ve flown both tell me the 737 long-range versions (-900’s, I think) just cannot do a good job as the 757 on those long trans-con. flights (say, Atlanta to Seattle). They can’t get up at the efficient altitude right away, but have to step climb. Been on one loaded up like this which I thought would never get off the ground. From start of rotation to wheels off the ground took over 1,000 ft! (Part of this is that they have to avoid tail strikes.). It is a pig, Jack!

    The 757, the -200, that is, loaded down with x-country fuel and full of people, still climbs like a rocket right on up into the mid 30 thousands, and can get in and out of short fields. It’s what Delta airlines takes into hot/high places like Bogota, Columbia.

    BTW, “technical” (really meaning “performance”) reasons turn into economic reasons. They are one and the same in these cases. You can’t go with this weight so you take off 3 rows of seats, advertise much more leg room etc… maybe you will make as much money, maybe not.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  367. @Negrolphin Pool

    Well, Mr. Pool, don’t leave us hanging. What did the Atlas Air employee on the other end of the phone reply back with?

    I know someone who knew the jumpseater on that flight. It was ridiculous how that First Officer was let to keep flying.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Negrolphin Pool
  368. Midnights says:
    @Alden

    A drive around modern Highland Park/Detroit/Hamtramck’s ruination of what used to be the second largest Polish ancestral city in the United States (behind Chicago) will give you that answer in short order. Go during the day though before the natives awaken. So anytime before 3pm, although Hamtramck is Arabic more than black nowadays, so you might be a tad safer there.

  369. bomag says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    It spooled up ten years later.

  370. S says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    The witnesses say they saw the jet on fire before its tail broke off, and it went into a fatal spiral; they have largely been ignored by federal officials and the media.

    Declaring it was a mechanical issue instead of terrorism may have been as much an effort to retain the public confidence in the airlines (too big to be allowed to fail?) as it was about retaining the public’s confidence in the government’s ability to protect it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  371. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Everything you say is true but 99% of passengers don’t even notice – all they care about is the ticket price. And all the airlines really care about are their costs. So if the narrow body costs 9 cents /seat mile and the wide body costs 11 cents/ seat mile, they are going to go with the narrow. Remember that airlines are nickel and diming people now by charging them for water and such, so saving 2 cents/seat mile is HUUGE for them.

    This is not to mention that having your whole airline on the same platform makes things a lot simpler – Southwest operates only 737’s and it’s a much easier airline to run than Delta with 20 different planes that you have to maintain and match pilots with, etc.

    Yes, originally before there were Embraers and such, 737s were regional, 727s with 3 engines were for longer routes and 707s were transatlantic and cross country. That’s ancient history but Boeing keeps making the 737 because it’s cheaper than doing a clean sheet design.

  372. @S

    Lockheed engineers assumed that the decision to blame the horrific 1979 O’Hare crash of loaded DC-10 on American Airlines rather than McDonnell-Douglas was AA taking the fall to keep their expensive investment in DC-10s viable.

    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  373. @Steve Sailer

    As I recall, Steve, the reason that engine departed the aircraft was failure of one or more big pins that kept it in its proper place on the pylon. Douglas said that the AA mechanics had cracked these pins due to installation error, while anyone could say, well, Douglas should have designed the pins or their mating parts such that they could take some banging around during engine installation.

    To me, you’re never going to get to the bottom of an argument like that. Perhaps the political decision you stated took care of it.

  374. @Jack D

    Agreed on all this, Jack.

    As to the nickeling and diming, that comes from the age of the internet from what I’ve heard from airline people. See, once you shop on expedia or what-have-you for price alone (as you stated), it’s the basic fare and tax that expedia goes by. If the bags are free, etc, and you are not nickling and diming customers, then the basic fare will need to include that, and you will lose out on the internet.

    So, make the basic fare as low as possible, and yeah, \$25/bag and whatever else you can think of. That’s especially the case for the Spirits and Ryan Airs and such.

  375. @Jack D

    BTW, Delta may not have 20 types (I’ll count later), but they should not have gotten rid of those 777s. The Airbus 350 cannot do what the triple-7 can, internationally. They have to bump passengers for freight (the freight pays more!) and make secondary fuel stops when they can’t take off from Jo-burg with the full load, etc.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid, on the part of Delta, who I think is partial to Airbus. (However, I’d heard they were waiting for 737-MAX prices to go down, and they want to pick up a bunch of them.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Bill Jones
  376. @Bill Jones

    That’s fair. Another benefit of the ANG model is its significantly harder to randomly bomb the shit out of some random country on a politicians whim, since they take longer to activate and mobilize, and there are political costs to activating them. Not really an issue in a no shit war as you will usually have enough Indications and Warnings to increase your readiness level before zero hour. But would cut down on the recreational bomb tossing a bit.

    Would also make Americans more conscious of how often we use military force. “Why can’t I get a flight anywhere?”
    “All the airline pilots got called back their guard units and activated so we could bomb bumfuckistan” etc etc

  377. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_fleet#Current_fleet

    They list 17 types but for example they list the A330-200, -300 and -900 as 3 separate types so it’s fewer depending on how you count.

    20 was just my ballpark estimate from memory so I think I came reasonably close. Whatever it is, it’s a lot of different types and it must represent a significant challenge to maintain and match pilots to all these different aircraft*.

    * For others reading this, pilots have to be “type rated” to fly a turbojet. It’s not like a truck driver’s license where you can drive any make or model truck. However, the modern trend is to make the cockpits identical so that one type rating covers a bunch of different models – almost all the Airbus share a single type rating. If you are type rated for an A320 you can also fly an A318, A319 and A321 because all of the controls and displays are highly similar and behave in the same way. Part of the reason why Boeing took such elaborate steps to conceal MCAS was so that the Max could share a type rating with the existing 737 fleet.

  378. @Hibernian

    This has been covered in different threads. Lots of fighter guys working for the airlines now. There are overlaps/exceptions, but generally speaking guys that end up in fighters are better pilots than guys in transports and bombers. The transition isn’t difficult at all.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/langewiesche-what-really-brought-down-the-boeing-737-max/#comment-3455181

  379. bomag says:
    @notsaying

    LOL

    There is a defensible line of argument that our health care system is overpriced and overused for the outcomes.

    That doesn’t mean we abandon it completely.

    Also doesn’t mean to apply maximum and gratuitous firepower to every ailment.

  380. @notsaying

    Trauma treatment, e.g. setting a broken leg (putting it back together!) is one thing, but prescription meds, and the prognoses that serve to justify them, are highly questionable, due to:

    • Statistical bias: good outcomes from placebo get counted towards the med’s effectiveness.

    • Time bias: Someone who was always going to die at time ‘t’ hasn’t actually lived “longer”, i.e. due to treatment. The extra [few] years is the time-difference between when serious disease would normally be recognized (i.e. patient presents obvious symptoms) and when modern test methods (setting aside false positives) can now recognize it (i.e. early detection).

    • Treatment bias: Doctor doesn’t get paid to do nothing.

  381. bomag says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    From the link:

    Also contributing were systemic deficiencies in the aviation industry’s selection and performance measurement practices, which failed to address the first officer’s aptitude-related deficiencies and maladaptive stress response.

    Pay any price; bear any burden…

  382. @James B. Shearer

    James, I stand corrected. This tragedy was a very big deal here in WNY. While the pilots were not asleep, that was discussed around here, they apparently were not paying close attention to the flight.Thank you.

  383. @Achmed E. Newman

    I was just about to switch to Spanish by necessity before she terminó la llamada.

    In seriousness, I hope the jumpseater’s family sues them into the swamp.

  384. @James Speaks

    Stolen from the Z-man who so names his Baltimore home.

  385. @Achmed E. Newman

    (However, I’d heard they were waiting for 737-MAX prices to go down, and they want to pick up a bunch of them.)

    You’ll be able pick up as many as you want from a broad selection of third world airports pretty soon.
    May require some cosmetic touch-ups.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  386. Brutusale says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The girlfriend has a former colleague teaching at a local college where she was taking some courses while trying to decide between an NP or a Masters. She keeps bugging my girl to finish her degree and come teach as her retirement position.

  387. anon[585] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Zemeckis is a Lithuanian surname – his father was Lithuanian, mother was Italian. You’re right about the Catholic part.

  388. anonymous[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    If there’s any consolation, the non-White and non-Japanese pilots will lead to relatively quick deaths, even if more numerous and needless.

    The female version of Sully will put it 90 degrees into the ground, ignoring a possible river landing.

    The African version of Japanese Flight 123 won’t try to pull off an unsuccessful miracle over the course of an hour. They’ll simply kill everyone in 2-3 minutes.

    Realistically, these pilots will be foisted onto regional airlines in the hinterlands — “Oh well, a few deplorables were killed.” The parasites in the media will simply ignore it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  389. Moses says:

    What gender and color are the pilots flying politician and billionaire private jets? Oprah’s? Anyone know?

  390. Moses says:
    @Anonymous

    Got my private license years ago.

    Piloting requires strong math, spatial skills and ability to understand the interaction of different forces acting on an aircraft, i.e. basic physics.

    For example, I learned to calculate which direction to point the aircraft so that it traveled where I wanted it to go in a crosswind. We used a paper calculator for the vector math.

    Piloting also requires strict adherence to checklists and protocols. Staying cool under pressure vital — super easy to lose control if you panic.

    Everone knows the Schwartze population mean for these qualities way to the left of Whites.

    As another commenter pointed out, any Schwartze with the ability to be a good pilot has a way easier more lucrative AA job waiting for him.

    I would be scared as hell to board an aircraft piloted by 2 Schwartzes.

    You can bet the elite have White men piloting their Gulfstream IVs.

  391. Moses says:
    @International Jew

    First woman Navy carrier pilot made an error, crashed and died.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen

    Crash on USS Carl Vinson reportedly another woman pushed into flight operations for political purposes:

    7 sailors hurt. F-35 sank in South China Sea. Had to recover it so CCP didn’t.

    Women have many strengths, but flying off carriers ain’t one of them.

    Sailors reportedly so pissed off about it they leaked the vid. Currently under prosecution.

  392. @anonymous

    Members of the House of Representatives fly all over the place. It was a regional airline crash near Buffalo in 2009 that led Congress to raise standards for pilots that this article is complaining about.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  393. @duncsbaby

    Love it!

    This guy’s voice reminds me so much of some band right on the tip of my brain, it pains me to seek it, I’m reaching but can’t quite grasp it.

    Cheers mate, really appreciate it.

    There’s nothing in this world for me.
    Work. School. Death.

    Imagine if people finally realised that these were the real 3 principles of modern existence.

    I first heard of the Rakes with their brilliant remix of Gang of Four

    No escape from society. The body is good business. Sell out maintain the interest. Remember Lot’s wife. Renounce all sin and vice.

  394. peterike says:

    Too many posts to read through, so don’t know if anyone mentioned this. But this Person of Color pilot doesn’t seem too bright.

    https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/egyptair-flight-ms804-fatal-crash-caused-by-pilot-mohamed-said-ali-ali-shoukairs-cigarette/

  395. Malla says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Check this out. Air Zimbabwe pilot announcement. A MUST WATCH!!! This will be what you will be hearing in your American airlines in the future, if you are stupid enough to fly.

    Air Zimbabwe “Captain” Mazoota’s announcement !! Hilarious !!! A MUST LISTEN….!

  396. @Hibernian

    Entire tail assemblies had fallen off airliners previously, but the plane never immediately dropped like a rock, unlike with Fl 587.

  397. @Steve Sailer

    Members of the House of Representatives fly all over the place.

    Not only do they fly all over the place, they fly frequently, sometimes weekly back to their districts, especially House members who start campaigning (raising money) for the next election as soon as they are sworn in. Congress generally meets only Tuesday through Thursday so members can get home and press the flesh.

    Congress also has its own private reserved parking at Reagan National. It used to be out in the open and you could sometimes see staffers carrying golf clubs.

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