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U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard Arson Suspect Acquitted
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During the Mostly Peaceful Protests of 2020, the most catastrophic disaster in the United States was the complete destruction of the U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard, a small aircraft carrier, by fire in San Diego harbor, which cost taxpayers several billion dollars.

iSteve commenter Jenner Ickham Errican writes:

Speaking of seamen, as mentioned in the previous thread, the White man, Ryan Mays, originally accused of setting the Bonhomme Richard fire, has been acquitted. A Black man, Elijah McGovern, was also an intial suspect but was inexplicably not investigated further despite there being much stronger circumstantial evidence he was the one.

Back when Mays was charged, Steve wrote:

https://www.unz.com/isteve/white-sailor-charged-in-the-bon-homme-richard-arson/

The article goes into the case against Mays in depth, which so far doesn’t sound overwhelming by the standards of reasonable doubt in a civilian courtroom, but perhaps it is by the standards of military justice (…) maybe this guy is a dick with a chaotic personality whom everybody hates for good reasons, but may not, technically speaking, have done it.

It could be worse than mere incompetence: It looks like the Navy could have intentionally framed White suspect Mays for racial reasons. Because the excuses given for not going after the real suspect are ridiculous:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/2022-09-27/alternative-suspect-navy-arson
Investigators say the fire began July 12, 2020, around 8 a.m. in the ship’s lower vehicle storage area, or “lower V.”

Miya Polion, a former petty officer 3rd class on the Bonhomme Richard, testified Tuesday she saw a tall, dark-skinned sailor in blue coveralls running from the lower V ramp, across the upper vehicle storage area and up the ramp to the ship’s hangar bay just after 8 a.m. Mays is White.

“I never stopped looking at him because it was kind of weird to be running on the ship,” Polion said during testimony Tuesday. She reported this to NCIS when investigators began searching for witnesses, she said.

Who is NCIS Special Agent Maya Kamat?

NCIS Special Agent Maya Kamat investigated the other sailor until he left he Navy in the spring of 2021, she said, which is when investigators re-focused on Mays.

During questioning, Kamat said the sailor explained the Google searches found on his phone were related to a novel he was writing with a second man about a dragon living on a ship. Kamat said she saw the manuscript for the novel and a conversation about the story on the messaging app Discord with the sailor’s writing partner.

She also said the sailor declined to put investigators in touch with his writing partner and they did not pursue the issue further.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/fate-of-accused-arsonist-in-the-uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-now-in-hands-of-military-judge/509-adecaaee-5364-4ca2-aedd-ce1cf27fe5fc

In regards to the testimony from eyewitness Velasco, defense attorneys grilled Velasco on the stand about why it took him so long to identify Mays and why his story had changed since fingering Mays since the fire.

While on the stand, Velasco said that at first he wasn’t sure it was Mays and he didn’t want to name any names when he was first asked about what he witnessed that day.

Velasco said it wasn’t until his superior Betz said Mays liked to wear the same coveralls that Velasco said the person he saw the day of the fire was wearing.

Velasco also admitted that he told others that he thought the fire was likely caused by electrical issues and that he wasn’t sure that it was Mays at first.

Velasco said special agents “pressured” him during the investigation and that he was “scared” during the dozen or so interviews.

“Didn’t you tell investigators that you were not sure that the person you saw was white,” asked Mays’ defense attorney.

“Yes, sir,” testified Velasco.

In an unusual turn, it was the defense that called the Navy’s top special agent in charge of the investigation to the stand.

The agent, Maya Kamat, testified that agents had another suspect in the days and weeks after the fire.

That suspect, “Sailor E.M.,” [real name: Elijah McGovern, see USNI article below] was seen “sprinting” from the Lower V at around 8:03 the morning of the fire.

Special Agent Kamat testified that she interviewed E.M. – CBS 8 is not using the sailor’s real name due to the fact that he was never charged with the crime – and that she found that he had searched the internet 15 minutes before the fire for “heat scales, fire white.”

When asked about the Google search, E.M. told Kamat that he was doing research for a novel he was writing about fire-breathing dragons. Kamat testified that she read portions of his novel and it started on a burnt-down warship named the “TB3R.”

Kamat also testified that during a search of E.M.’s phone, investigators found a diagram on the phone that he drew a year prior depicting three phases of a fire.

Adding to it, the defense called a handwriting expert who examined writing on a portable toilet that was on the pier next to the Bonhomme Richard. The message, “I lit the ship on fire,” was found to have similarities with handwriting samples from E.M.. Mays on the other hand was ruled out from writing the message because he was in the brig when the handwriting was found.

Despite the leads, Kamat testified that the Navy’s investigation into E.M. stopped after he was discharged from the Navy and it no longer had jurisdiction. Kamat also testified that E.M. was ruled out as a suspect.

According to Mays’s defense team consultant, Gary Barthel, the U.S. Attorney’s Office decided against pursuing criminal charges against suspect E.M., leaving the Navy without the authority to continue its investigation.

In response, the Navy opted to pursue its case against Mays.

https://news.usni.org/2022/08/19/attorneys-argue-over-graffiti-confessions-alternative-suspects-in-bonhomme-richard-fire-criminal-hearing

 
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  1. So, if I’d killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I’d be home free?

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Graveldips

    So it would seem.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    , @botazefa
    @Graveldips


    I'd be home free
     
    Yes, if you're Black. The DoJ needs to answer why they declined to prosecute the Navy's prime suspect. "But but but George Floyd" is not an acceptable answer.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @fish, @Lurker

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Graveldips

    Apparently yes, and furthermore it would be entirely reasonable for the Navy to prosecute some rando (white) enlisted man in your stead.

    Welcome to WokeWorld: Military Edition.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @Art Deco
    @Graveldips

    If you were on land, no. The local police and prosecutor could investigate. I think civilian agencies could investigate if you were in the territorial waters or on the high seas.

    , @HorriblyDepressed
    @Graveldips

    They would delay your discharge once you became a suspect. I imagine this has happened before. It would be interesting to research the question.

    Replies: @Polistra

    , @Bill Jones
    @Graveldips

    That one leapt out at me too.
    I call bullshit.
    black privilege strikes again.

  2. There was a story the other day Elizabeth Holmes has requested a new trial on the grounds that the prosecution intimidated the witnesses against her. She got turned down at the first hearing.

    Isn’t intimidating witnesses what prosecutors are employed to do?

    Any way it looks like she is finally going to get sentenced and incarcerated next month. Is there a betting site where they have odds on how long she actually has to remain locked up? Is she going to be in the joint where they have murderers and similar hard criminals? Chicks with dicks?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There was a story the other day Elizabeth Holmes has requested a new trial on the grounds that the prosecution intimidated the witnesses against her. She got turned down at the first hearing.
     
    She requested a new trial on the grounds that "I'm just a girl" and that the prosecutor was "being mean to me".
    , @SaneClownPosse
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Probably will never be incarcerated anywhere.

    If they pretend that she is inside, it will be a country club "prison", similar to where Martha Stewart was "incarcerated".

    The Board of Directors for Lizzie's con were all made guys, upper echelon of the MIC criminal conspiracy.

  3. Anon[255] • Disclaimer says:

    If the Navy no longer has authority … could the FBI take up the case?

    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?

    • Replies: @fish
    @Anon

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?


    Because there’s an election in 6 weeks…..

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Anon


    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.
     
    Two years ago, half the country and a good deal of the World went completely batsh*t insane over a low-life ex-con who died of a drug overdose in Minneapolis.

    I don't find any kind of institutional craziness so hard to believe anymore.
    , @George
    @Anon

    They did not pursue the case against the Black sailor for the same reason they did not pursue the case against the white sailor, no evidence. The navy has a history of trying to blame fires on arson based on dubious confessions, the navy claimed the sailor confessed. USS Miami's destruction was pinned on a civilian janitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#2012_fire

    A nuclear-trained surface warfare officer who later became a Navy lawyer and then judge, Capt. Angela Tang is known for being thorough.

    “Given the state of the evidence presented to me, I do not believe there is a reasonable likelihood of conviction at trial. Therefore I do not recommend referral of these charges even though there is probable cause to support them,” Tang wrote in her findings.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/bonhomme-richard-fire-safety-lapses

    The Navy did not have an adequate system to fight and prevent the fire.
    Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 1 - The Timeline | What's Going on With Shipping?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyMLckaPEkM

  4. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    So it would seem.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Paul Jolliffe

    If you are a member of a protected class, you are all set in today’s navy, apparently.

    Of course, to be fair to the U.S. Navy, their standards of justice are no different than those of most big city D.A.’s, especially New York City, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

    “Blame whites today, blame whites tomorrow, blame whites forever . . .”

  5. As circumstantial as the evidence is against the negro, it’s pretty clear he’s the most viable suspect. But alas, negroes are a protected species and cannot be charged with any crimes, no matter how disastrous. The American taxpayer, once again, fits the bill for negro dysfunction.

    • Agree: fish, HammerJack, Bernie
    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Mike Tre

    "... it’s pretty clear he’s the most viable suspect. .."

    I haven't been following the case. Is there even clear evidence the fire was deliberately set and not accidental? Some poor guy in Texas was executed for what could very well have been an accidental fire.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Mike Tre

    Of all the heroes of 2020, Saint George, of course, soars above all. But George Floyd is hardly a mere mortal man, but more an ethereal being who came down upon this earth--doing some home invasion robberies and drug dealing--to sacrifice his life, to cleanse us all of our original 1619 sin of racism.

    But as mortal men go--you gotta give it up for Elijah McGovern. Burning out a $1.2 billion dollar light carrier and sending it to the scrap heap.... that's beats the pants off burning our a McDonalds or some car lot in Kenosha. And he got away with it! Scot free.

    Elijah McGovern really should be 2020 BLM activist of the year!

    ~~~

    Of course, we're talking about the Negro Leagues here.

    There's no challenge to the 2020 big kahuna of wreckers. Funding this useless--but for creating a pandemic--"gain of function" research on the Yunnan cave bat virus, in China, seeing it leak, peddling useless to destructive pandemic advice, being able to buy off and silence scientists questioning your narrative by threating their funding ... and yet being slathered with slobbering praise, as if some oracle of wisdom, by the press. The overall 2020 wrecker--trillions of damages--is untouched.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Veteran Aryan

  6. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    I’d be home free

    Yes, if you’re Black. The DoJ needs to answer why they declined to prosecute the Navy’s prime suspect. “But but but George Floyd” is not an acceptable answer.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @botazefa

    As his holy prophet Martin Looter Kang Jr (pbuh) reminds us, black people have an eternal right to rule over white devils because of slavery and Jim Crow.

    , @fish
    @botazefa

    But but but George Floyd” is not an acceptable answer.


    Sorry but it kinda looks like that’s a perfectly acceptable answer!

    , @Lurker
    @botazefa


    “But but but George Floyd” is not an acceptable answer.
     
    But, unfortunately, it is in real life.
  7. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    Apparently yes, and furthermore it would be entirely reasonable for the Navy to prosecute some rando (white) enlisted man in your stead.

    Welcome to WokeWorld: Military Edition.

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Almost Missouri

    Oh come on, it makes more sense than you’re willing to admit. How do I know? Well, take the article on the acquittal from the Union Tribune. It’s by a writer named Dyer. And Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-30/sailor-acquitted-of-arson-in-san-diego-navy-ship-fire

    Replies: @AceDeuce

  8. Can you shout fire in a crowded theater if you see a black guy setting it on fire?

    • Replies: @Bernie
    @JimDandy

    Only if you want a 20-year sentence for hate crimes ....

  9. During questioning, Kamat said the sailor explained the Google searches found on his phone were related to a novel he was writing with a second man about a dragon living on a ship. Kamat said she saw the manuscript for the novel and a conversation about the story on the messaging app Discord with the sailor’s writing partner.

    She also said the sailor declined to put investigators in touch with his writing partner and they did not pursue the issue further.

    This sounds like a really bad episode of NCIS

    • Replies: @Half Canadian
    @AndrewR

    Was that writing partner Chinese?

  10. @Paul Jolliffe
    @Graveldips

    So it would seem.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    If you are a member of a protected class, you are all set in today’s navy, apparently.

    Of course, to be fair to the U.S. Navy, their standards of justice are no different than those of most big city D.A.’s, especially New York City, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

    “Blame whites today, blame whites tomorrow, blame whites forever . . .”

  11. A member of the protected race committed arson as part of a book writing exercise to see what the response of the fire brigade would be to a fire breathing dragon aboard ship? That’s less of a defense than “racism!”, but certainly, knowing a few E4s from years ago, more believable than a guy getting dissed by some girl and setting fire to the ship he lives on.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Louis Renault

    https://twitter.com/mrgavinedwards/status/1575317295257337856

  12. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri
    @Graveldips

    Apparently yes, and furthermore it would be entirely reasonable for the Navy to prosecute some rando (white) enlisted man in your stead.

    Welcome to WokeWorld: Military Edition.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Oh come on, it makes more sense than you’re willing to admit. How do I know? Well, take the article on the acquittal from the Union Tribune. It’s by a writer named Dyer. And Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-30/sailor-acquitted-of-arson-in-san-diego-navy-ship-fire

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    @anonymous


    Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?
     
    An aircraft carrier, obviously, supports aviation operations. The aviation units on board (squadrons) are permanently based on land at a Naval air base--San Diego, Norfolk, Pensacola, etc. They deploy on a carrier for several months, and then that unit leaves and another similar one comes on for their deployment. Usually three squadrons rotate on 6 month stints. You find yourself coming back a year after you left the last one.

    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.

    "Ship's company", by contrast, are the people directly assigned to that ship. Most of them don't have anything to do with the aviation side of things. (some do directly support it, of course) They steer the ship, maintain its systems, cook the meals, do the laundry, issues supplies, etc. They're like the hotel staff.

    Replies: @Anon

  13. U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard Arson Suspect Acquitted …

    … because of course he is.

    Was there ever any doubt?

  14. OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @New Dealer

    Oh, come on, there are also plenty of nice, wholesome white gay bathhouse characters.

    , @AceDeuce
    @New Dealer


    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.
     
    RE: Dahmer. I lived in Milwaukee-in fact, not too long after the Dahmer murders. This series is revisionist BS. The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject, is still around, and has been criticizing the new TV series for it's inaccuracies. The nigro "neighbor" you mention , Glenda Cleveland, did not live in the same building as Dahmer, and per Schwartz, probably never even met him. Extreme liberties have been taken with the actual story.

    BTW, I believe in Schwartz's original edition of the book, she had an appendix at the end, in which she listed the criminal records of all the victims. Most had extensive criminal records of their own.

    In fact, while living in that craphole area, Dahmer was mugged more than once.

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Ian Smith
    @New Dealer

    Dahmer seems to have been one of those relatively rare gays with jungle fever a lá Milo.

    , @Muggles
    @New Dealer

    I found it amusing to learn that Netflix had originally tagged this series with some kind of "LGBQT+" label. So if you subscribe to Netflix you can watch this category of material all day long.

    However the Powers That Be involving this process quickly learned that despite the solid fact that Dahmer was exclusively gay and all of his victims were gay, and he often picked them up in gay bars, etc. These Labeling People demanded that Netflix take this series out of their "Gay" category.

    Why? Evidently it makes gays, et. al., look bad. Gay serial killers preying on other gays doesn't fit their Will and Grace stereotype.

    This is one of the special dangers of this labeling by interest groups (self proclaimed, always). They demand "recognition" but further demand, when they get it, that only "positive" things can be so labeled.

    I had to hunt for a photo, for instance, in some online "news" feature mentioning that the perp who ran down some well known NYC actress, 65, with an electric bike in downtown NYC and bugged out, leaving her to die. He was black, which I suspected. Now facing manslaughter and leaving the scene charges.

    Actress was of course White. Perp a young black male with no license to drive or registration for the e-bike. Had the victim been less famous ("beloved" was how the article described her) there probably would have been little or no investigation.

    Just imagine the fuss had the racial info had been the reverse. "White punk mows down beloved Black actress!"

    No surprise for most iSteve readers, this kind of hidden anti-White racism.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @J.Ross
    @New Dealer

    As you write, Something Noah's Ark is thrown from the Daily Show to the gaping maw of the whale because he reduced viewership by three fouths.

  15. @New Dealer
    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AceDeuce, @Ian Smith, @Muggles, @J.Ross

    Oh, come on, there are also plenty of nice, wholesome white gay bathhouse characters.

    • LOL: fish
  16. Well, well, well….a negro. Who’d a’ thunk it?

    Despite the propaganda longtime TV show (which sucks), NCIS (back when I was in, they were just NIS) was always a fking joke. They couldn’t “catch” their tallywhackers in their zippers. Now that it’s been diversified, I have no doubt it’s much worse.

  17. “Round up the usual suspects.”

  18. @New Dealer
    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AceDeuce, @Ian Smith, @Muggles, @J.Ross

    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    RE: Dahmer. I lived in Milwaukee-in fact, not too long after the Dahmer murders. This series is revisionist BS. The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject, is still around, and has been criticizing the new TV series for it’s inaccuracies. The nigro “neighbor” you mention , Glenda Cleveland, did not live in the same building as Dahmer, and per Schwartz, probably never even met him. Extreme liberties have been taken with the actual story.

    BTW, I believe in Schwartz’s original edition of the book, she had an appendix at the end, in which she listed the criminal records of all the victims. Most had extensive criminal records of their own.

    In fact, while living in that craphole area, Dahmer was mugged more than once.

    • Replies: @fish
    @AceDeuce

    There’s a reason that this sort of “prolefeed” is gravy hosed to the slow witted.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @AceDeuce


    The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject...
     
    Right before the Dahmer story broke, a couple of Milwaukee reporters had published a book about Wisconsin's most notorious killers, Ed Gein of course being the most prominent.

    These two were thus well-placed to do a book on Dahmer, and indeed were among the first to do so. Anne Schwartz didn't have a co-author, so I don't think she was one of them. Do you recognize this other book?
  19. I would guess the Navy brass were afraid of giving other blacks the idea of mutiny through sabotage.

    Is a 1.2B dollar ship worth the life of a sailor? Yes. Do we have to make hard choices sometimes? Yes. Can we live with ourselves? That’s what we do.

  20. @New Dealer
    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AceDeuce, @Ian Smith, @Muggles, @J.Ross

    Dahmer seems to have been one of those relatively rare gays with jungle fever a lá Milo.

  21. NCIS functions for the Navy about the same way the FBI does for civilian Washington: keep the graft flowing, protect the Brass, frame the little guys. And now we have the Race Card thrown in as well.

    The prosecution must have been monumentally incompetent not to get a conviction, but that is Affirmative Action for you, so incompetent they can’t even win when the fix is in.

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @theMann

    Derek Butler, the name of the judge, sounds like it could be black.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  22. In response {to its inability to prosecute the actual arsonist}, the Navy opted to pursue its case against Mays.

    This is Kafka-esque – we can’t prosecute the actual guilty person so we’ll prosecute an innocent person instead. Because SOMEONE must be prosecuted. Perfect bureaucratic logic. Kafka with a racial twist!

    If the case against the innocent person fails, well we did our job. If the innocent person is convicted, well we did our job too. No one can fault us for not doing our job.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Dvnjbbgc
    @Jack D

    An under-the-streetlight prosecution, for those who fear the dark.

  23. The entire government of the United States is completely corrupted. There is no saving it.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Yancey Ward

    "The entire government of the United States is completely corrupted. There is no saving it."

    If that were true the guy would have been convicted.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward

  24. OT: What a 15 ft storm surge looks like, taken by a camera on a 65′ tall pole in the barrier island town of Fort Myers Beach, most of which no longer exists:

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks.


    camera on a 65′ tall pole
     
    Can that camera really be on a 65' pole? It's lower than the power lines. And looks about even with the buildings' 3rd floors. I ask because the waves on top of the surge often submerge the camera, which would suggest 50' waves, which seems high on a 15' surge. But I've never been in a hurricane, so maybe.

    It's also impressive that the camera kept on recording/transmitting through the storm. Presumably battery power, but maybe the owner had to scale the pole afterwards to get recorded footage.

    Most of Florida is barely above sea level. The coastal towns that are getting hit in the news stories (e.g., Ft. Myers, Naples) are like 1-3m above sea level per Wiki, so yeah, a 15' surge means you're going under. It's surprising that Florida isn't scoured clear by the sea more often.

    Replies: @Bill

  25. I think the FBI could have opened an investigation into this McGovern fellow. Too busy chasing down nooses.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Art Deco

    Too busy trying to frame white supremists, (instead of pursuing child trafficking).

  26. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    If you were on land, no. The local police and prosecutor could investigate. I think civilian agencies could investigate if you were in the territorial waters or on the high seas.

  27. This is similar to what happened when a turret on the USS Iowa blew up. The Navy blamed two of the dead sailors for being homos. You obviously can’t do that anymore so charging a white guy is the next best thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jim Don Bob

    IIRC, they initially blamed Clayton Hartwig, not anyone else. It was the NIS contention that Hartwig was out of sorts after his chum Kendall Pruitt got married, so committed suicide in a theatrical way. (The two had had a falling out of some sort). Hartwig's family said the thesis was nonsense, as did Pruitt. (Hartwig was killed in the blast, Pruitt was not).

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Ralph L
    @Jim Don Bob

    I suspect the Navy didn't want to lay the blame on their leftover WWII powder bags for the guns. The battleships were month-balled a year or two later. The dead can't sue for libel.

  28. Anon[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA ‘Deck’) on a DDG, and you can’t really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don’t want to be there– they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It’s a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems– one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can’t help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I’m down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain’s mate. It’s a shit job. The 1st Lt and ‘Boats’ (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief’s mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it’s just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good– so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you’re outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a ’round up the usual suspects’ type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it’s even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Anon

    Jeez, you know slut-shaming isn't allowed in public. No woman is allowed to feel bad about anything she's done, ever.

    Replies: @tyrone

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Anon

    I guess someone's got to say it, so it might as well be me...

    "The United States Navy- 200 years of tradition, unencumbered by progress!"

    Rules for seamen:

    "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it!".

    And for our cousins across the pond-

    "The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!"

    Thanks for the interesting info on Navy life.

    Replies: @Lurker, @Gordo, @36 ulster

    , @AnotherDad
    @Anon

    Thanks 375. That was very informative and I'm a tiny bit smarter now. Appreciate posts like that.

    , @AKAHorace
    @Anon


    On an Amphib it’s even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.
     
    This sounds interesting, but I don't understand it. I would be grateful if you explained this in more detail

    Replies: @anon

    , @anonymous
    @Anon


    Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I’m down 3 sailors.
     
    What's it like on submarines with women?
    , @MM
    @Anon

    Yeah, Deck sounds like it dates back to pressing everyone stupid enough to be caught in the taverns, or given a choice between the noose and the navy.
    All the men without skills were "landsmen", paid the worst because they had no relevant skills. Some got handy enough to move to other areas, but some of them never did get those skills.

  29. @Jim Don Bob
    This is similar to what happened when a turret on the USS Iowa blew up. The Navy blamed two of the dead sailors for being homos. You obviously can't do that anymore so charging a white guy is the next best thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Ralph L

    IIRC, they initially blamed Clayton Hartwig, not anyone else. It was the NIS contention that Hartwig was out of sorts after his chum Kendall Pruitt got married, so committed suicide in a theatrical way. (The two had had a falling out of some sort). Hartwig’s family said the thesis was nonsense, as did Pruitt. (Hartwig was killed in the blast, Pruitt was not).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    The culprits were a group of junior officers who were loading the guns with nonstandard charges in an experiment to see if they could increase the range of the projectiles. None of them received any serious punishment for this.

    It's the same in every military. Officers look after each other. Ordinary servicemen pay the price.

  30. Reading between the lines, I get the impression that the Navy forced the other suspect to leave the service so that they would no longer have jurisdiction and wouldn’t be stuck with a politically embarrassing prosecution.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  31. @Jim Don Bob
    This is similar to what happened when a turret on the USS Iowa blew up. The Navy blamed two of the dead sailors for being homos. You obviously can't do that anymore so charging a white guy is the next best thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Ralph L

    I suspect the Navy didn’t want to lay the blame on their leftover WWII powder bags for the guns. The battleships were month-balled a year or two later. The dead can’t sue for libel.

  32. @Emil Nikola Richard
    There was a story the other day Elizabeth Holmes has requested a new trial on the grounds that the prosecution intimidated the witnesses against her. She got turned down at the first hearing.

    Isn't intimidating witnesses what prosecutors are employed to do?

    Any way it looks like she is finally going to get sentenced and incarcerated next month. Is there a betting site where they have odds on how long she actually has to remain locked up? Is she going to be in the joint where they have murderers and similar hard criminals? Chicks with dicks?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @SaneClownPosse

    There was a story the other day Elizabeth Holmes has requested a new trial on the grounds that the prosecution intimidated the witnesses against her. She got turned down at the first hearing.

    She requested a new trial on the grounds that “I’m just a girl” and that the prosecutor was “being mean to me”.

  33. @botazefa
    @Graveldips


    I'd be home free
     
    Yes, if you're Black. The DoJ needs to answer why they declined to prosecute the Navy's prime suspect. "But but but George Floyd" is not an acceptable answer.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @fish, @Lurker

    As his holy prophet Martin Looter Kang Jr (pbuh) reminds us, black people have an eternal right to rule over white devils because of slavery and Jim Crow.

  34. @theMann
    NCIS functions for the Navy about the same way the FBI does for civilian Washington: keep the graft flowing, protect the Brass, frame the little guys. And now we have the Race Card thrown in as well.

    The prosecution must have been monumentally incompetent not to get a conviction, but that is Affirmative Action for you, so incompetent they can't even win when the fix is in.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Derek Butler, the name of the judge, sounds like it could be black.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @anonymous


    Derek Butler, the name of the judge, sounds like it could be black.
     
    Looks white to me:
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R_GzUOR-_gA/maxresdefault.jpg

    Trial begins for Navy sailor accused in USS Bonhomme Richard arson in San Diego
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_GzUOR-_gA
    Sep 19, 2022

    The trial against the Navy sailor accused of setting a fire that destroyed the USS Bonhomme Richard in San Diego began Monday morning.

    Seaman Recruit Ryan Sawyer Mays, 21, faces charges of arson and willful hazarding of a vessel for allegedly setting the blaze that began July 12, 2020, and burned for several days while the warship was docked at Naval Base San Diego.

    Prosecutors have alleged that Mays was "disgruntled" with the Navy after dropping out of the SEAL training program.

    Monday, Seaman Mays told the judge he has chosen a bench trial and wants a military judge, rather than a jury, to determine his fate.

    "It was a mischievous act of defiance gone wrong," was the first sentence of the prosecution's opening statement.
     

  35. @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    Jeez, you know slut-shaming isn’t allowed in public. No woman is allowed to feel bad about anything she’s done, ever.

    • Replies: @tyrone
    @Ralph L


    slut-shaming isn’t allowed in public.
     
    ........yeah but this is iSteve comments........the moral here is DON'T LET YOUR DAUGHTERS JOIN THE MILITARY!..........or sons
  36. Cop story that will put a smile even on Steve Sailer.

    [13:30]

  37. @New Dealer
    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AceDeuce, @Ian Smith, @Muggles, @J.Ross

    I found it amusing to learn that Netflix had originally tagged this series with some kind of “LGBQT+” label. So if you subscribe to Netflix you can watch this category of material all day long.

    However the Powers That Be involving this process quickly learned that despite the solid fact that Dahmer was exclusively gay and all of his victims were gay, and he often picked them up in gay bars, etc. These Labeling People demanded that Netflix take this series out of their “Gay” category.

    Why? Evidently it makes gays, et. al., look bad. Gay serial killers preying on other gays doesn’t fit their Will and Grace stereotype.

    This is one of the special dangers of this labeling by interest groups (self proclaimed, always). They demand “recognition” but further demand, when they get it, that only “positive” things can be so labeled.

    I had to hunt for a photo, for instance, in some online “news” feature mentioning that the perp who ran down some well known NYC actress, 65, with an electric bike in downtown NYC and bugged out, leaving her to die. He was black, which I suspected. Now facing manslaughter and leaving the scene charges.

    Actress was of course White. Perp a young black male with no license to drive or registration for the e-bike. Had the victim been less famous (“beloved” was how the article described her) there probably would have been little or no investigation.

    Just imagine the fuss had the racial info had been the reverse. “White punk mows down beloved Black actress!”

    No surprise for most iSteve readers, this kind of hidden anti-White racism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Muggles

    The reason for the categorization has less to do with the property’s subject matter than the creator credit of Ryan Murphy, whose metier is almost(?) entirely tabloid gay fashion-mag trash (yes, I realize the existence vs. essence question-begging since said trash may precede the alphabet category fundamentally, thus ol’ Jeff from the chocolate factory was intrinsically LGBTQ heritage, etc.)

    What would be funny: Netflix dropping the indirect euphemisms and providing a “White Mass Murderers” category since that’s all that women want to watch.

  38. @Yancey Ward
    The entire government of the United States is completely corrupted. There is no saving it.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “The entire government of the United States is completely corrupted. There is no saving it.”

    If that were true the guy would have been convicted.

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
    @James B. Shearer

    He was aquitted by the military jury, not the government.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

  39. @Mike Tre
    As circumstantial as the evidence is against the negro, it's pretty clear he's the most viable suspect. But alas, negroes are a protected species and cannot be charged with any crimes, no matter how disastrous. The American taxpayer, once again, fits the bill for negro dysfunction.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @AnotherDad

    “… it’s pretty clear he’s the most viable suspect. ..”

    I haven’t been following the case. Is there even clear evidence the fire was deliberately set and not accidental? Some poor guy in Texas was executed for what could very well have been an accidental fire.

  40. Anonymous[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @Jim Don Bob

    IIRC, they initially blamed Clayton Hartwig, not anyone else. It was the NIS contention that Hartwig was out of sorts after his chum Kendall Pruitt got married, so committed suicide in a theatrical way. (The two had had a falling out of some sort). Hartwig's family said the thesis was nonsense, as did Pruitt. (Hartwig was killed in the blast, Pruitt was not).

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The culprits were a group of junior officers who were loading the guns with nonstandard charges in an experiment to see if they could increase the range of the projectiles. None of them received any serious punishment for this.

    It’s the same in every military. Officers look after each other. Ordinary servicemen pay the price.

  41. @AndrewR

    During questioning, Kamat said the sailor explained the Google searches found on his phone were related to a novel he was writing with a second man about a dragon living on a ship. Kamat said she saw the manuscript for the novel and a conversation about the story on the messaging app Discord with the sailor’s writing partner.

    She also said the sailor declined to put investigators in touch with his writing partner and they did not pursue the issue further.
     
    This sounds like a really bad episode of NCIS

    Replies: @Half Canadian

    Was that writing partner Chinese?

  42. Besides the trial fiasco, the whole mess was another black eye for the Navy. The fire fighting was completely bungled and it seems nobody knew how to fight a ship fire. It took hours to get water on the fire, by which time it was completely out of control. Twenty officers got administrative punishments, all the way up to a Vice Admiral. There has been a steady series of these incidents illustrating the growing incompetence of the military leadership. BTW, I too was puzzled by the Navy’s failure to follow up on the second suspect until I learned of his race, which explained the matter.

    • Agree: SOL, AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Charlotte
    @Dutch Boy

    There was evidently no effective command of the firefighting efforts; somewhat reminiscent of the Uvalde response, actually. We seem to be seeing more and more cases of leadership failure across the board.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/19/uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-spread-wildly-due-to-repeated-failures-investigation-finds/

    Replies: @epebble, @Gordo

  43. @botazefa
    @Graveldips


    I'd be home free
     
    Yes, if you're Black. The DoJ needs to answer why they declined to prosecute the Navy's prime suspect. "But but but George Floyd" is not an acceptable answer.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @fish, @Lurker

    But but but George Floyd” is not an acceptable answer.

    Sorry but it kinda looks like that’s a perfectly acceptable answer!

  44. @AceDeuce
    @New Dealer


    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.
     
    RE: Dahmer. I lived in Milwaukee-in fact, not too long after the Dahmer murders. This series is revisionist BS. The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject, is still around, and has been criticizing the new TV series for it's inaccuracies. The nigro "neighbor" you mention , Glenda Cleveland, did not live in the same building as Dahmer, and per Schwartz, probably never even met him. Extreme liberties have been taken with the actual story.

    BTW, I believe in Schwartz's original edition of the book, she had an appendix at the end, in which she listed the criminal records of all the victims. Most had extensive criminal records of their own.

    In fact, while living in that craphole area, Dahmer was mugged more than once.

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar

    There’s a reason that this sort of “prolefeed” is gravy hosed to the slow witted.

  45. OT – meanwhile, the descent of America into farcical clown-world continues in other ways too:

    Vermont girls’ high school volleyball team are barred from their OWN locker room after complaining about transgender student who uses it and ‘who made inappropriate remark to them’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11269869/Vermont-girls-high-school-volleyball-team-barred-locker-room-transgender-student.html

    Boy pretending to be girl uses girl’s locker-room, makes vulgar comment to the actual girls, they complain about it, and then THEY are banned from using the room.

    • Replies: @theMann
    @Mr. Anon

    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase "ridden out of town on a rail" has come to this.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @AnotherDad
    @Mr. Anon



    Vermont girls’ high school volleyball team are barred from their OWN locker room after complaining about transgender student who uses it and ‘who made inappropriate remark to them’
     
    Boy pretending to be girl uses girl’s locker-room, makes vulgar comment to the actual girls, they complain about it, and then THEY are banned from using the room.
     
    Thanks Mr. Anon,

    Minoritarianism is a cancer. Separation is the cure.

    We need separation ASAP.

  46. @anonymous
    @Almost Missouri

    Oh come on, it makes more sense than you’re willing to admit. How do I know? Well, take the article on the acquittal from the Union Tribune. It’s by a writer named Dyer. And Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-30/sailor-acquitted-of-arson-in-san-diego-navy-ship-fire

    Replies: @AceDeuce

    Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?

    An aircraft carrier, obviously, supports aviation operations. The aviation units on board (squadrons) are permanently based on land at a Naval air base–San Diego, Norfolk, Pensacola, etc. They deploy on a carrier for several months, and then that unit leaves and another similar one comes on for their deployment. Usually three squadrons rotate on 6 month stints. You find yourself coming back a year after you left the last one.

    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.

    “Ship’s company”, by contrast, are the people directly assigned to that ship. Most of them don’t have anything to do with the aviation side of things. (some do directly support it, of course) They steer the ship, maintain its systems, cook the meals, do the laundry, issues supplies, etc. They’re like the hotel staff.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Anon
    @AceDeuce


    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.
     
    Is one group Air Force and the other group Navy?

    Replies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo

  47. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    They would delay your discharge once you became a suspect. I imagine this has happened before. It would be interesting to research the question.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @HorriblyDepressed

    What this resembles is the Air Force Academy fiasco. The superintendent swore that the person responsible for the racist messages would be held accountable, no ifs ands or buts.

    Then when the inevitable came to pass, the media dropped the story completely and the negro was permitted to transfer out, no harm done! Can't prosecute even if we wanted to, because he's no longer enrolled!

    Of course no one was ever required to state that last bit, because no one dared ask about it. These stories are so commonplace nowadays that they no longer make the news, except in carefully curated fashion as in the current case.

  48. Miya Polion, a former petty officer 3rd class on the Bonhomme Richard…

    NCIS Special Agent Maya Kamat…

    To make you laugh, I’d play the fool for you…

  49. @Emil Nikola Richard
    There was a story the other day Elizabeth Holmes has requested a new trial on the grounds that the prosecution intimidated the witnesses against her. She got turned down at the first hearing.

    Isn't intimidating witnesses what prosecutors are employed to do?

    Any way it looks like she is finally going to get sentenced and incarcerated next month. Is there a betting site where they have odds on how long she actually has to remain locked up? Is she going to be in the joint where they have murderers and similar hard criminals? Chicks with dicks?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @SaneClownPosse

    Probably will never be incarcerated anywhere.

    If they pretend that she is inside, it will be a country club “prison”, similar to where Martha Stewart was “incarcerated”.

    The Board of Directors for Lizzie’s con were all made guys, upper echelon of the MIC criminal conspiracy.

  50. @AceDeuce
    @New Dealer


    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.
     
    RE: Dahmer. I lived in Milwaukee-in fact, not too long after the Dahmer murders. This series is revisionist BS. The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject, is still around, and has been criticizing the new TV series for it's inaccuracies. The nigro "neighbor" you mention , Glenda Cleveland, did not live in the same building as Dahmer, and per Schwartz, probably never even met him. Extreme liberties have been taken with the actual story.

    BTW, I believe in Schwartz's original edition of the book, she had an appendix at the end, in which she listed the criminal records of all the victims. Most had extensive criminal records of their own.

    In fact, while living in that craphole area, Dahmer was mugged more than once.

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar

    The top crime reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, at the time, Anne Schwartz, who was the first reporter on the scene when he was caught and who wrote the first book on the subject…

    Right before the Dahmer story broke, a couple of Milwaukee reporters had published a book about Wisconsin’s most notorious killers, Ed Gein of course being the most prominent.

    These two were thus well-placed to do a book on Dahmer, and indeed were among the first to do so. Anne Schwartz didn’t have a co-author, so I don’t think she was one of them. Do you recognize this other book?

  51. @Graveldips
    So, if I'd killed my commander and hidden his body the day before my discharge, I'd be home free?

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe, @botazefa, @Almost Missouri, @Art Deco, @HorriblyDepressed, @Bill Jones

    That one leapt out at me too.
    I call bullshit.
    black privilege strikes again.

  52. Anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Muggles
    @New Dealer

    I found it amusing to learn that Netflix had originally tagged this series with some kind of "LGBQT+" label. So if you subscribe to Netflix you can watch this category of material all day long.

    However the Powers That Be involving this process quickly learned that despite the solid fact that Dahmer was exclusively gay and all of his victims were gay, and he often picked them up in gay bars, etc. These Labeling People demanded that Netflix take this series out of their "Gay" category.

    Why? Evidently it makes gays, et. al., look bad. Gay serial killers preying on other gays doesn't fit their Will and Grace stereotype.

    This is one of the special dangers of this labeling by interest groups (self proclaimed, always). They demand "recognition" but further demand, when they get it, that only "positive" things can be so labeled.

    I had to hunt for a photo, for instance, in some online "news" feature mentioning that the perp who ran down some well known NYC actress, 65, with an electric bike in downtown NYC and bugged out, leaving her to die. He was black, which I suspected. Now facing manslaughter and leaving the scene charges.

    Actress was of course White. Perp a young black male with no license to drive or registration for the e-bike. Had the victim been less famous ("beloved" was how the article described her) there probably would have been little or no investigation.

    Just imagine the fuss had the racial info had been the reverse. "White punk mows down beloved Black actress!"

    No surprise for most iSteve readers, this kind of hidden anti-White racism.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The reason for the categorization has less to do with the property’s subject matter than the creator credit of Ryan Murphy, whose metier is almost(?) entirely tabloid gay fashion-mag trash (yes, I realize the existence vs. essence question-begging since said trash may precede the alphabet category fundamentally, thus ol’ Jeff from the chocolate factory was intrinsically LGBTQ heritage, etc.)

    What would be funny: Netflix dropping the indirect euphemisms and providing a “White Mass Murderers” category since that’s all that women want to watch.

  53. Don’t they have, like, a zillion cameras or other sensors to monitor everything on a multibillion-dollar warship? An average middle class home has about a dozen sensors nowadays. Framing someone for a crime because someone saw him running won’t even get a misdemeanor conviction for shoplifting at our municipal court. The news report on the case said, investigations found so many mistakes (attributable to incompetence) that the investigators gave up viewing it as a crime. BTW, U.S. Navy has been playing bumper ships for a while now in clear weather during peacetime on open oceans. Occam’s razor suggests incompetence than malice.

  54. @Mike Tre
    As circumstantial as the evidence is against the negro, it's pretty clear he's the most viable suspect. But alas, negroes are a protected species and cannot be charged with any crimes, no matter how disastrous. The American taxpayer, once again, fits the bill for negro dysfunction.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @AnotherDad

    Of all the heroes of 2020, Saint George, of course, soars above all. But George Floyd is hardly a mere mortal man, but more an ethereal being who came down upon this earth–doing some home invasion robberies and drug dealing–to sacrifice his life, to cleanse us all of our original 1619 sin of racism.

    But as mortal men go–you gotta give it up for Elijah McGovern. Burning out a $1.2 billion dollar light carrier and sending it to the scrap heap…. that’s beats the pants off burning our a McDonalds or some car lot in Kenosha. And he got away with it! Scot free.

    Elijah McGovern really should be 2020 BLM activist of the year!

    ~~~

    Of course, we’re talking about the Negro Leagues here.

    There’s no challenge to the 2020 big kahuna of wreckers. Funding this useless–but for creating a pandemic–“gain of function” research on the Yunnan cave bat virus, in China, seeing it leak, peddling useless to destructive pandemic advice, being able to buy off and silence scientists questioning your narrative by threating their funding … and yet being slathered with slobbering praise, as if some oracle of wisdom, by the press. The overall 2020 wrecker–trillions of damages–is untouched.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @AnotherDad

    Hey, how's the hurricane situation? Seeing your recent and continuous posting, I gather that the waters must have miraculously parted around the AnotherHousehold. AnotherMoses?

    Either that, or the media are overstating the hurricane ...

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Veteran Aryan
    @AnotherDad


    The overall 2020 wrecker–trillions of damages–is untouched.
     
    Not the biggest mass murderer of all time, but in the top five and climbing.
  55. Yes, the guy who really did it was Black!

    They didn’t prosecute him because he was Black!

    They prosecuted another guy who was White, because they needed to prosecute somebody, somebody who wasn’t Black!

    Fortunately, the White guy, who had nothing to do with it, was rightfully acquitted.

    The only reason he was indicted was because he was a suitable White scapegoat for the actual Black! perpetrator who really lit that ship on fire.

    We get it.

    Now, can we get on with why in hell the United States should have anything at all to do with what is going on between the Ukraine and Russia?

  56. @anonymous
    @theMann

    Derek Butler, the name of the judge, sounds like it could be black.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Derek Butler, the name of the judge, sounds like it could be black.

    Looks white to me:

    [MORE]

    Trial begins for Navy sailor accused in USS Bonhomme Richard arson in San Diego

    Sep 19, 2022

    The trial against the Navy sailor accused of setting a fire that destroyed the USS Bonhomme Richard in San Diego began Monday morning.

    Seaman Recruit Ryan Sawyer Mays, 21, faces charges of arson and willful hazarding of a vessel for allegedly setting the blaze that began July 12, 2020, and burned for several days while the warship was docked at Naval Base San Diego.

    Prosecutors have alleged that Mays was “disgruntled” with the Navy after dropping out of the SEAL training program.

    Monday, Seaman Mays told the judge he has chosen a bench trial and wants a military judge, rather than a jury, to determine his fate.

    “It was a mischievous act of defiance gone wrong,” was the first sentence of the prosecution’s opening statement.

  57. @Jim Don Bob
    OT: What a 15 ft storm surge looks like, taken by a camera on a 65' tall pole in the barrier island town of Fort Myers Beach, most of which no longer exists:

    https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1575666161525497856

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Thanks.

    camera on a 65′ tall pole

    Can that camera really be on a 65′ pole? It’s lower than the power lines. And looks about even with the buildings’ 3rd floors. I ask because the waves on top of the surge often submerge the camera, which would suggest 50′ waves, which seems high on a 15′ surge. But I’ve never been in a hurricane, so maybe.

    It’s also impressive that the camera kept on recording/transmitting through the storm. Presumably battery power, but maybe the owner had to scale the pole afterwards to get recorded footage.

    Most of Florida is barely above sea level. The coastal towns that are getting hit in the news stories (e.g., Ft. Myers, Naples) are like 1-3m above sea level per Wiki, so yeah, a 15′ surge means you’re going under. It’s surprising that Florida isn’t scoured clear by the sea more often.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Almost Missouri

    60' is a tall utility pole, so that part is plausible, if maybe not quite right. But the camera need not be attached at the top. If the camera is surveilling something on the ground, the top seems kind of high. It's a bit misleading to say "on a 65' [sic?] pole" when it's not at the top, though.

  58. @AnotherDad
    @Mike Tre

    Of all the heroes of 2020, Saint George, of course, soars above all. But George Floyd is hardly a mere mortal man, but more an ethereal being who came down upon this earth--doing some home invasion robberies and drug dealing--to sacrifice his life, to cleanse us all of our original 1619 sin of racism.

    But as mortal men go--you gotta give it up for Elijah McGovern. Burning out a $1.2 billion dollar light carrier and sending it to the scrap heap.... that's beats the pants off burning our a McDonalds or some car lot in Kenosha. And he got away with it! Scot free.

    Elijah McGovern really should be 2020 BLM activist of the year!

    ~~~

    Of course, we're talking about the Negro Leagues here.

    There's no challenge to the 2020 big kahuna of wreckers. Funding this useless--but for creating a pandemic--"gain of function" research on the Yunnan cave bat virus, in China, seeing it leak, peddling useless to destructive pandemic advice, being able to buy off and silence scientists questioning your narrative by threating their funding ... and yet being slathered with slobbering praise, as if some oracle of wisdom, by the press. The overall 2020 wrecker--trillions of damages--is untouched.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Veteran Aryan

    Hey, how’s the hurricane situation? Seeing your recent and continuous posting, I gather that the waters must have miraculously parted around the AnotherHousehold. AnotherMoses?

    Either that, or the media are overstating the hurricane …

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Almost Missouri


    Hey, how’s the hurricane situation? Seeing your recent and continuous posting, I gather that the waters must have miraculously parted around the AnotherHousehold. AnotherMoses?
     
    Since you asked ...

    We're still up here at AnotherDaughter's in the Seattle burbs. Beautiful day 75 here on the back deck. (We fly-drive down starting next week.)

    But neighbors reported Thursday "your house is fine". We took a "direct hit", but being on the Atlantic side ... the hurricane had 200 miles of land travel and lost its "zest". Our sustained winds peaked 60ish. Neighbor gal across the canal sent us a pic--the water up about 4th and maybe only an inch below our dock/sea wall. (It had gone over theirs.) The power is out, but otherwise I think things are ok. (Haven't heard from them in a day.)

    We were on the right side of the sandbar for this one. Ergo I can post away.
  59. Bonhomme Richard sounds like he might have had slaves, so they would have had to sink his ship sooner or later anyway.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @International Jew

    Bonhomme Richard has always sounded to me like either a porn star or a member of The Monkees band from the 1960s.


    https://www.monkeeslivealmanac.com/uploads/7/8/9/5/7895731/5391063_orig.jpg

    The Bonhomme Richard Reunion Tour 1986

    Replies: @njguy73

  60. @Ralph L
    @Anon

    Jeez, you know slut-shaming isn't allowed in public. No woman is allowed to feel bad about anything she's done, ever.

    Replies: @tyrone

    slut-shaming isn’t allowed in public.

    ……..yeah but this is iSteve comments……..the moral here is DON’T LET YOUR DAUGHTERS JOIN THE MILITARY!……….or sons

  61. @Mr. Anon
    OT - meanwhile, the descent of America into farcical clown-world continues in other ways too:

    Vermont girls' high school volleyball team are barred from their OWN locker room after complaining about transgender student who uses it and 'who made inappropriate remark to them'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11269869/Vermont-girls-high-school-volleyball-team-barred-locker-room-transgender-student.html
     
    Boy pretending to be girl uses girl's locker-room, makes vulgar comment to the actual girls, they complain about it, and then THEY are banned from using the room.

    Replies: @theMann, @AnotherDad

    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase “ridden out of town on a rail” has come to this.

    • Agree: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @theMann


    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase “ridden out of town on a rail” has come to this.
     
    I've thought about the beatdowns. At the HS level, these perverts invading the girls locker room and waving their dicks around would seem to be the sort of thing would get some fathers, brothers and boyfriends to apply a reality check.

    But here's the gist of it:

    Under minoritarianism, the state police power is used to not to protect the community and enforce its civilized norms but to punishpeople for enforcing civilized norms and protecting the community

    Minoritarianism is the ideology of turning the state against the community and nation it is suppose to serve.

    Replies: @Ralph L

  62. OT: New Biden administration slogan – Build Black Better!

    “It is our lowest income communities and our communities of color that are most impacted by these extreme conditions and impacted by issues that are not of their own making,” Harris claimed. “And so we have to address this in a way that is about giving resources based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we also need to fight for equity, understanding not everyone starts out at the same place.”

    Kamala Harris, talking about how the Biden adminstration intends to help Floridians after Hurricane Ian

  63. @International Jew
    Bonhomme Richard sounds like he might have had slaves, so they would have had to sink his ship sooner or later anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Bonhomme Richard has always sounded to me like either a porn star or a member of The Monkees band from the 1960s.


    The Bonhomme Richard Reunion Tour 1986

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I don't know if people are being facetious. I don't know if people actually know this, but here goes:

    The USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) was named after the frigate that John Paul Jones (not to be confused with the Led Zep bassist) commanded in the Revolutionary War. The ship was named in honor of Ben Franklin, who wrote "Poor Richard's Almanac." "Bonhomme Richard" is French for "Good Man Richard."

    Franklin did own slaves for several years but in 1774 established an abolitionist society.

    I'll bet some people here thought Bonhomme Richard was the brother of Maurice and Henri.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @scrivener3

  64. @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    I guess someone’s got to say it, so it might as well be me…

    “The United States Navy- 200 years of tradition, unencumbered by progress!”

    Rules for seamen:

    “If it moves, salute it. If it doesn’t move, paint it!”.

    And for our cousins across the pond-

    “The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!”

    Thanks for the interesting info on Navy life.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @CharleszMartel

    “If it moves, salute it. If it doesn’t move, paint it!”

    British Army has the same saying.

    , @Gordo
    @CharleszMartel


    “The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!”
     
    To be fair the lash went out in 1881 and the rum ration in 1970. Sodomy…..
    , @36 ulster
    @CharleszMartel

    Nelson did away with one of those three. David Owen (Labour, of course) did away with the rum (grog).

  65. @James B. Shearer
    @Yancey Ward

    "The entire government of the United States is completely corrupted. There is no saving it."

    If that were true the guy would have been convicted.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward

    He was aquitted by the military jury, not the government.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Yancey Ward

    "He was aquitted by the military jury, not the government."

    It was a judge only trial which is apparently a defense option. He was acquitted by the judge.

  66. @Almost Missouri
    @AnotherDad

    Hey, how's the hurricane situation? Seeing your recent and continuous posting, I gather that the waters must have miraculously parted around the AnotherHousehold. AnotherMoses?

    Either that, or the media are overstating the hurricane ...

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Hey, how’s the hurricane situation? Seeing your recent and continuous posting, I gather that the waters must have miraculously parted around the AnotherHousehold. AnotherMoses?

    Since you asked …

    We’re still up here at AnotherDaughter’s in the Seattle burbs. Beautiful day 75 here on the back deck. (We fly-drive down starting next week.)

    But neighbors reported Thursday “your house is fine”. We took a “direct hit”, but being on the Atlantic side … the hurricane had 200 miles of land travel and lost its “zest”. Our sustained winds peaked 60ish. Neighbor gal across the canal sent us a pic–the water up about 4th and maybe only an inch below our dock/sea wall. (It had gone over theirs.) The power is out, but otherwise I think things are ok. (Haven’t heard from them in a day.)

    We were on the right side of the sandbar for this one. Ergo I can post away.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  67. @Buzz Mohawk
    @International Jew

    Bonhomme Richard has always sounded to me like either a porn star or a member of The Monkees band from the 1960s.


    https://www.monkeeslivealmanac.com/uploads/7/8/9/5/7895731/5391063_orig.jpg

    The Bonhomme Richard Reunion Tour 1986

    Replies: @njguy73

    I don’t know if people are being facetious. I don’t know if people actually know this, but here goes:

    The USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) was named after the frigate that John Paul Jones (not to be confused with the Led Zep bassist) commanded in the Revolutionary War. The ship was named in honor of Ben Franklin, who wrote “Poor Richard’s Almanac.” “Bonhomme Richard” is French for “Good Man Richard.”

    Franklin did own slaves for several years but in 1774 established an abolitionist society.

    I’ll bet some people here thought Bonhomme Richard was the brother of Maurice and Henri.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @njguy73

    Thanks. The ship's name is a good one with a fine history. No denigration intended.

    Replies: @Dvnjbbgc

    , @scrivener3
    @njguy73

    We have not yet begun to fight. JPJ

  68. @Anon
    If the Navy no longer has authority … could the FBI take up the case?

    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?

    Replies: @fish, @Mr. Anon, @George

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?

    Because there’s an election in 6 weeks…..

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  69. @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    Thanks 375. That was very informative and I’m a tiny bit smarter now. Appreciate posts like that.

  70. The complete destruction of the U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard may have cost the taxpayers several billion dollars, and according to Steve was the most catastrophic disaster of 2020. But it pales in comparison to the billions of wasted dollars we have sent to the Ukraine in 2022. The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion. The destruction of the Bonhomme Richard had multiple causes and the failure of the navy to put out a fire is one of the reasons for its destruction….But sending $41 billion dollars to the Ukraine is more difficult to understand yet is supported by the majority of our congress and politicians from both parties.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Anon7
    @Travis

    When the time comes to replace all of the weapons and ammunition expended in Ukraine, the weapons manufacturers will profit.

    When the war is over, the United States will pay to rebuild Ukraine, and all those companies will profit.

    All of these companies contribute heavily to the election campaigns of both parties.

    , @Anonymous
    @Travis


    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.
     
    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  71. @Dutch Boy
    Besides the trial fiasco, the whole mess was another black eye for the Navy. The fire fighting was completely bungled and it seems nobody knew how to fight a ship fire. It took hours to get water on the fire, by which time it was completely out of control. Twenty officers got administrative punishments, all the way up to a Vice Admiral. There has been a steady series of these incidents illustrating the growing incompetence of the military leadership. BTW, I too was puzzled by the Navy's failure to follow up on the second suspect until I learned of his race, which explained the matter.

    Replies: @Charlotte

    There was evidently no effective command of the firefighting efforts; somewhat reminiscent of the Uvalde response, actually. We seem to be seeing more and more cases of leadership failure across the board.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/19/uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-spread-wildly-due-to-repeated-failures-investigation-finds/

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Charlotte

    leadership failure across the board.

    It is not just leadership. What we are seeing is general incompetence. As the skilled cohort fade away and are replaced by poorly educated/trained/motivated, these incidents will be the new normal. U.S. Navy has been banging other ships, grounding surface ships/submarines etc., in peacetime and good weather indicating general loss of Seamanship.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Newport_News_(SSN-750)#Collision_with_Japanese_ship
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_grounding
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_USS_Port_Royal_grounding
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Guardian_(MCM-5)#January_2013_grounding
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_and_USS_New_Orleans_collision
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke-class_destroyer#USS_Porter_and_MV_Otowasan_collision
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_and_Alnic_MC_collision

    , @Gordo
    @Charlotte

    In a refit there is a very much reduced crew and critical systems like fire detection and firefighting are often (nearly always) out if service for repair or replacement at one time or another.

  72. @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    On an Amphib it’s even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    This sounds interesting, but I don’t understand it. I would be grateful if you explained this in more detail

    • Replies: @anon
    @AKAHorace

    Sure. Deck is in charge of the weatherdecks so anywhere exposed to the elements. On the Wasp-class ships, they carry LCACs and Amtracks for amphibious assault and technically any operation where the ship launches watercraft is run by Deck. So the ship floods partially, allowing water into the well deck, then the LCACs or Amtracks swim out, then you pump out the water and sail on while the Marines go do whatever on their excursion. Above the well decks are the vehicle decks, which are also technically open to the weather as they are open to the well deck since you just drive the vehicles down from their into the well.

    The sterngate keeps the sea out normally when you aren't flooded, thats like the transom on the back of the well deck, and it lays down when you're deploying for amphibious attack. I've never been billeted on a Wasp-class but everything I've heard is that the process of partially flooding your very expensive warship with seawater, innundating everything in salt and whatever else, and getting it all over the huge pumps and hydraulics needed to manipulate the sterngate makes a maintenance nightmare, especially since Deck is just BMs, whose only real in-rate specialty is to be coxswains and helmsmen, so don't have any engineering training.

    Deck is much bigger on an amphib also. On a DDG or CG it's just a division, under the operations department, run by an Ensign. On an Amphib it's it's own department with a couple internal divisions, and I think usually an O-4 running the show, and they have a special billet called 'Bosun' that's a prior enlisted officer to assist the 1st LT since it's an order of magnitude more complicated than the Deck operations on a destroyer or cruiser.

  73. @Art Deco
    I think the FBI could have opened an investigation into this McGovern fellow. Too busy chasing down nooses.

    Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin

    Too busy trying to frame white supremists, (instead of pursuing child trafficking).

  74. @Mr. Anon
    OT - meanwhile, the descent of America into farcical clown-world continues in other ways too:

    Vermont girls' high school volleyball team are barred from their OWN locker room after complaining about transgender student who uses it and 'who made inappropriate remark to them'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11269869/Vermont-girls-high-school-volleyball-team-barred-locker-room-transgender-student.html
     
    Boy pretending to be girl uses girl's locker-room, makes vulgar comment to the actual girls, they complain about it, and then THEY are banned from using the room.

    Replies: @theMann, @AnotherDad

    Vermont girls’ high school volleyball team are barred from their OWN locker room after complaining about transgender student who uses it and ‘who made inappropriate remark to them’

    Boy pretending to be girl uses girl’s locker-room, makes vulgar comment to the actual girls, they complain about it, and then THEY are banned from using the room.

    Thanks Mr. Anon,

    Minoritarianism is a cancer. Separation is the cure.

    We need separation ASAP.

    • Agree: Gordo
  75. @Travis
    The complete destruction of the U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard may have cost the taxpayers several billion dollars, and according to Steve was the most catastrophic disaster of 2020. But it pales in comparison to the billions of wasted dollars we have sent to the Ukraine in 2022. The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion. The destruction of the Bonhomme Richard had multiple causes and the failure of the navy to put out a fire is one of the reasons for its destruction....But sending $41 billion dollars to the Ukraine is more difficult to understand yet is supported by the majority of our congress and politicians from both parties.

    Replies: @Anon7, @Anonymous

    When the time comes to replace all of the weapons and ammunition expended in Ukraine, the weapons manufacturers will profit.

    When the war is over, the United States will pay to rebuild Ukraine, and all those companies will profit.

    All of these companies contribute heavily to the election campaigns of both parties.

  76. @Charlotte
    @Dutch Boy

    There was evidently no effective command of the firefighting efforts; somewhat reminiscent of the Uvalde response, actually. We seem to be seeing more and more cases of leadership failure across the board.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/19/uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-spread-wildly-due-to-repeated-failures-investigation-finds/

    Replies: @epebble, @Gordo

  77. @HorriblyDepressed
    @Graveldips

    They would delay your discharge once you became a suspect. I imagine this has happened before. It would be interesting to research the question.

    Replies: @Polistra

    What this resembles is the Air Force Academy fiasco. The superintendent swore that the person responsible for the racist messages would be held accountable, no ifs ands or buts.

    Then when the inevitable came to pass, the media dropped the story completely and the negro was permitted to transfer out, no harm done! Can’t prosecute even if we wanted to, because he’s no longer enrolled!

    Of course no one was ever required to state that last bit, because no one dared ask about it. These stories are so commonplace nowadays that they no longer make the news, except in carefully curated fashion as in the current case.

  78. @Anon
    If the Navy no longer has authority … could the FBI take up the case?

    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?

    Replies: @fish, @Mr. Anon, @George

    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.

    Two years ago, half the country and a good deal of the World went completely batsh*t insane over a low-life ex-con who died of a drug overdose in Minneapolis.

    I don’t find any kind of institutional craziness so hard to believe anymore.

  79. @botazefa
    @Graveldips


    I'd be home free
     
    Yes, if you're Black. The DoJ needs to answer why they declined to prosecute the Navy's prime suspect. "But but but George Floyd" is not an acceptable answer.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @fish, @Lurker

    “But but but George Floyd” is not an acceptable answer.

    But, unfortunately, it is in real life.

  80. @CharleszMartel
    @Anon

    I guess someone's got to say it, so it might as well be me...

    "The United States Navy- 200 years of tradition, unencumbered by progress!"

    Rules for seamen:

    "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it!".

    And for our cousins across the pond-

    "The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!"

    Thanks for the interesting info on Navy life.

    Replies: @Lurker, @Gordo, @36 ulster

    “If it moves, salute it. If it doesn’t move, paint it!”

    British Army has the same saying.

  81. @AceDeuce
    @anonymous


    Dyer is identified as someone who “spent ten tears enlisted in the Navy and served as ship’s company on two aircraft carriers.” Wiki says that “ship’s company” means all the personnel, officers and enlisted, on a ship. Get it? Why does this seeming triviality bother me so much?
     
    An aircraft carrier, obviously, supports aviation operations. The aviation units on board (squadrons) are permanently based on land at a Naval air base--San Diego, Norfolk, Pensacola, etc. They deploy on a carrier for several months, and then that unit leaves and another similar one comes on for their deployment. Usually three squadrons rotate on 6 month stints. You find yourself coming back a year after you left the last one.

    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.

    "Ship's company", by contrast, are the people directly assigned to that ship. Most of them don't have anything to do with the aviation side of things. (some do directly support it, of course) They steer the ship, maintain its systems, cook the meals, do the laundry, issues supplies, etc. They're like the hotel staff.

    Replies: @Anon

    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.

    Is one group Air Force and the other group Navy?

    • Replies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo
    @Anon

    No, both Navy. The navy has a HUGE air force. F-18s are Navy (and USMC). F-15s and F-16s are Chair Force.

  82. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @Travis
    The complete destruction of the U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard may have cost the taxpayers several billion dollars, and according to Steve was the most catastrophic disaster of 2020. But it pales in comparison to the billions of wasted dollars we have sent to the Ukraine in 2022. The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion. The destruction of the Bonhomme Richard had multiple causes and the failure of the navy to put out a fire is one of the reasons for its destruction....But sending $41 billion dollars to the Ukraine is more difficult to understand yet is supported by the majority of our congress and politicians from both parties.

    Replies: @Anon7, @Anonymous

    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.

    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Anonymous



    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.
     
    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.
     
    Never assume building the Wall had anything to do with cost. $41 billion for Ukraine is a tiny sliver in the US federal budget < 1%. A very solid $25 billion Wall would be even less.

    The Wall isn't the least bit expensive and unlike most all other it starts saving money immediately.

    We don't have the Wall because a big tranche of our "American" "elites" do not want to have a Wall, because they want the illegal flow to continue.


    "Biden's" open border policy is far and away the biggest disaster of 2022.

    It will cost something like Ukraine just straight up. Processing, transporting, dumping, housing, feeding, welfaring these invaders is not cheap.

    But the down the road costs are staggering--they will be net tax easters costing 100s of billions in their lifetimes. Their descendants will push that to trillions and then trillions more in declined productivity and increased costs. And by degrading the future genome of the nation and increasing social friction ... the future America will be poorer by tens of trillions.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

  83. @njguy73
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I don't know if people are being facetious. I don't know if people actually know this, but here goes:

    The USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) was named after the frigate that John Paul Jones (not to be confused with the Led Zep bassist) commanded in the Revolutionary War. The ship was named in honor of Ben Franklin, who wrote "Poor Richard's Almanac." "Bonhomme Richard" is French for "Good Man Richard."

    Franklin did own slaves for several years but in 1774 established an abolitionist society.

    I'll bet some people here thought Bonhomme Richard was the brother of Maurice and Henri.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @scrivener3

    Thanks. The ship’s name is a good one with a fine history. No denigration intended.

    • Replies: @Dvnjbbgc
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Good Man Dick. Mays loves deck.

  84. @Yancey Ward
    @James B. Shearer

    He was aquitted by the military jury, not the government.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “He was aquitted by the military jury, not the government.”

    It was a judge only trial which is apparently a defense option. He was acquitted by the judge.

  85. anonymous[168] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I’m down 3 sailors.

    What’s it like on submarines with women?

  86. @Anon
    @AceDeuce


    Those aviation personnel, including their own support people, are essentially tenants, like in a long term hotel, they handle the air ops and they come and they go as described above.
     
    Is one group Air Force and the other group Navy?

    Replies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo

    No, both Navy. The navy has a HUGE air force. F-18s are Navy (and USMC). F-15s and F-16s are Chair Force.

  87. @Charlotte
    @Dutch Boy

    There was evidently no effective command of the firefighting efforts; somewhat reminiscent of the Uvalde response, actually. We seem to be seeing more and more cases of leadership failure across the board.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/19/uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-spread-wildly-due-to-repeated-failures-investigation-finds/

    Replies: @epebble, @Gordo

    In a refit there is a very much reduced crew and critical systems like fire detection and firefighting are often (nearly always) out if service for repair or replacement at one time or another.

  88. @CharleszMartel
    @Anon

    I guess someone's got to say it, so it might as well be me...

    "The United States Navy- 200 years of tradition, unencumbered by progress!"

    Rules for seamen:

    "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it!".

    And for our cousins across the pond-

    "The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!"

    Thanks for the interesting info on Navy life.

    Replies: @Lurker, @Gordo, @36 ulster

    “The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!”

    To be fair the lash went out in 1881 and the rum ration in 1970. Sodomy…..

  89. History will demand how the hell did we not simply grab pieces of garbage like Stetchin and Strzokkin and decapitate them and then frame some black dude and let the “Justice” department spin itself into inaction to avoid prosecuting a black? You have the whole freaking case right there like a novel and here we are mumbling about what might have happened.

  90. @New Dealer
    OFF TOPIC. Watched some of the Dahmer series on Netflix. Everything is bleared, smeared with race, and wears race smudge and bears race smell.

    According to Monster: The Jeff Dahmer Story, there are three categories of people: cold and ignorant whites; warm and wise blacks; and the nobly suffering allies of blacks such as the deaf, immigrants, and gays. There are more affirmative action box-checks in this teleplay than memorably distinct personalities.

    You may have not have known that mass murderer, torturer, and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was white, had white parents, and went to school with other white kids. Whiteness caused him. He is the perfect occasion for bursts of righteous anger by antiracist blacks from all walks of life. Finally, a black felon gets to murder Dahmer in prison (although he was not morally culpable because he was supposedly deranged by the junk food served there, of course), closing the black circle.

    Scene 1, Episode 1 opens with a tv news report in the background about five white Milwaukee cops beating up a black undercover cop. Then pulls back to show a lady we will learn is the brave black neighbor of Dahmer’s who knew it was him all along and complained about him to the police but they did nothing. That she did complain I think is true, and the failure of the police I think was abhorrent, but the frame is false: the neighbor could have been white, and it is not the whiteness of the (multiracial) police that kept Dahmer safe, but rather their average intelligence, overwork, laziness, inexperience in interpreting gay boyfriend squabbles, human imperfection, etc. that kept Dahmer safe. Plainfield, Wisconsin was all white, but Dahmer-adjacent Ed Gein long escaped detection as well. Same goes for John Wayne Gacy in all-white Norridge, Illinois.

    It’s technically well-done, entertaining except for the race mania, and it both arouses and satisfies morbid curiosity with detailed gore. But the superfluous love, love, love black, and the hate, hate, hate white is an evil that cannot be tolerated. Stop with the genocidal propaganda, Netflix bosses!

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AceDeuce, @Ian Smith, @Muggles, @J.Ross

    As you write, Something Noah’s Ark is thrown from the Daily Show to the gaping maw of the whale because he reduced viewership by three fouths.

  91. @Anon
    I was 1st LT (division officer in charge of OD-O1 AKA 'Deck') on a DDG, and you can't really use race to clear up whodunnit. Undesignated, and especially SEAL drops like this kid, are always, always problem children. Understandably. They don't want to be there-- they signed up to do SEAL stuff and are chipping paint and checking life vests 18 hours a day. It's a shit deal, and people who was out in A-school should just be admin discharged, not foisted off on the rest of the fleet as an underhanded recruiting technique.

    Deck is the receiving point for most of these kids, as we are the only division with a fairly large need for totally untrained grunt labor. To make sure that the young ensign in charge leaves his tour with completely grey hair, we also have the largest proportion of females of any division on the ship, except maybe Supply. Two problems-- one, Deck work is physical, often back-breakingly so. And they can't help much with that. Secondly, obviously they are getting ploughed by the entire boat, so the female sailors are sort of always trickling in, starting drama between the 3-4 dimwits who are screwing them, getting pregnant and removed from the ship, then usually one guy gets a sex assault charge and the other guy gets a frat charge and now I'm down 3 sailors.

    There is zero reward of incentive for being a deck seaman or boatswain's mate. It's a shit job. The 1st Lt and 'Boats' (BMC) have some cachet in the wardroom and chief's mess as they have the biggest division by far, and those are two of the oldest and most esteemed historical billets in the Navy, but for the guys below the top two, it's just a mess. None of the skills they learn are particularly useful outside of the Navy, they have a brutal day job and they are also watchstanders (helm and obvious boatswainsmate of the watch) so they add 4-5 hours on the bridge after they have worked all day. Most of their job just involves making the ship look good-- so painting, cleaning, and chipping rust. And the Captain will demand these capriciously, often to make the ship look good by surging Deck for 48 -72 hours straight before a portcall even though the paint etc we are applying is going to slough off right afterward because we were going through rainsqualls while applying it. About the only upside of the job is you're outside almost all day, and in the rare healthy Deck Division there is a sort of commraderie of suffering.

    Whenever NCIS was onboard (an unnerving amount) regardless of what happened, they always come around to Deck and start asking questions. Very much a 'round up the usual suspects' type deal, and unfortunately, with good reason. On an Amphib it's even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @CharleszMartel, @AnotherDad, @AKAHorace, @anonymous, @MM

    Yeah, Deck sounds like it dates back to pressing everyone stupid enough to be caught in the taverns, or given a choice between the noose and the navy.
    All the men without skills were “landsmen”, paid the worst because they had no relevant skills. Some got handy enough to move to other areas, but some of them never did get those skills.

  92. @Anon
    If the Navy no longer has authority … could the FBI take up the case?

    Is the Navy really so woke that it won’t pursue a case against a black sailer who destroyed a mini aircraft carrier? I find that hard to believe.

    Why isn’t there at least one Congressman asking about this?

    Replies: @fish, @Mr. Anon, @George

    They did not pursue the case against the Black sailor for the same reason they did not pursue the case against the white sailor, no evidence. The navy has a history of trying to blame fires on arson based on dubious confessions, the navy claimed the sailor confessed. USS Miami’s destruction was pinned on a civilian janitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#2012_fire

    A nuclear-trained surface warfare officer who later became a Navy lawyer and then judge, Capt. Angela Tang is known for being thorough.

    “Given the state of the evidence presented to me, I do not believe there is a reasonable likelihood of conviction at trial. Therefore I do not recommend referral of these charges even though there is probable cause to support them,” Tang wrote in her findings.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/bonhomme-richard-fire-safety-lapses

    The Navy did not have an adequate system to fight and prevent the fire.
    Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 1 – The Timeline | What’s Going on With Shipping?

  93. @Almost Missouri
    @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks.


    camera on a 65′ tall pole
     
    Can that camera really be on a 65' pole? It's lower than the power lines. And looks about even with the buildings' 3rd floors. I ask because the waves on top of the surge often submerge the camera, which would suggest 50' waves, which seems high on a 15' surge. But I've never been in a hurricane, so maybe.

    It's also impressive that the camera kept on recording/transmitting through the storm. Presumably battery power, but maybe the owner had to scale the pole afterwards to get recorded footage.

    Most of Florida is barely above sea level. The coastal towns that are getting hit in the news stories (e.g., Ft. Myers, Naples) are like 1-3m above sea level per Wiki, so yeah, a 15' surge means you're going under. It's surprising that Florida isn't scoured clear by the sea more often.

    Replies: @Bill

    60′ is a tall utility pole, so that part is plausible, if maybe not quite right. But the camera need not be attached at the top. If the camera is surveilling something on the ground, the top seems kind of high. It’s a bit misleading to say “on a 65′ [sic?] pole” when it’s not at the top, though.

  94. What is motivating the authorities to charge the wrong man? Are their careers going to suffer if they charge and convict the other guy? I’d think a failed prosecution is worse for your career. It often seems like decisions are made based on “optics” when nobody is watching and nobody cares. Nobody but Steve is paying attention to this case.

  95. Ahh yes…E.M.; a member of our Revolutionary Amphibious Dindoo, RAD, special mission unit. The day of the rope won’t be long coming…

  96. @Jack D

    In response {to its inability to prosecute the actual arsonist}, the Navy opted to pursue its case against Mays.
     
    This is Kafka-esque - we can't prosecute the actual guilty person so we'll prosecute an innocent person instead. Because SOMEONE must be prosecuted. Perfect bureaucratic logic. Kafka with a racial twist!

    If the case against the innocent person fails, well we did our job. If the innocent person is convicted, well we did our job too. No one can fault us for not doing our job.

    Replies: @Dvnjbbgc

    An under-the-streetlight prosecution, for those who fear the dark.

  97. A black sailer? Is he related to Steve?

  98. @Buzz Mohawk
    @njguy73

    Thanks. The ship's name is a good one with a fine history. No denigration intended.

    Replies: @Dvnjbbgc

    Good Man Dick. Mays loves deck.

  99. @njguy73
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I don't know if people are being facetious. I don't know if people actually know this, but here goes:

    The USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) was named after the frigate that John Paul Jones (not to be confused with the Led Zep bassist) commanded in the Revolutionary War. The ship was named in honor of Ben Franklin, who wrote "Poor Richard's Almanac." "Bonhomme Richard" is French for "Good Man Richard."

    Franklin did own slaves for several years but in 1774 established an abolitionist society.

    I'll bet some people here thought Bonhomme Richard was the brother of Maurice and Henri.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @scrivener3

    We have not yet begun to fight. JPJ

  100. @theMann
    @Mr. Anon

    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase "ridden out of town on a rail" has come to this.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase “ridden out of town on a rail” has come to this.

    I’ve thought about the beatdowns. At the HS level, these perverts invading the girls locker room and waving their dicks around would seem to be the sort of thing would get some fathers, brothers and boyfriends to apply a reality check.

    But here’s the gist of it:

    Under minoritarianism, the state police power is used to not to protect the community and enforce its civilized norms but to punishpeople for enforcing civilized norms and protecting the community

    Minoritarianism is the ideology of turning the state against the community and nation it is suppose to serve.

    • Agree: Bernie, 36 ulster
    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @AnotherDad

    The Daily Mail reported today that two people in the crowd who shut up a heckler (of Andrew) in the Queen's Edinburgh funeral procession have been arrested for assault. The Scots have "fiscals" (DA), one of whom will decide whether to prosecute or not. The DM disabled online comments on the article, which is unusual for them.

  101. @Anonymous
    @Travis


    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.
     
    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.

    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.

    Never assume building the Wall had anything to do with cost. $41 billion for Ukraine is a tiny sliver in the US federal budget < 1%. A very solid $25 billion Wall would be even less.

    The Wall isn't the least bit expensive and unlike most all other it starts saving money immediately.

    We don't have the Wall because a big tranche of our "American" "elites" do not want to have a Wall, because they want the illegal flow to continue.

    “Biden’s” open border policy is far and away the biggest disaster of 2022.

    It will cost something like Ukraine just straight up. Processing, transporting, dumping, housing, feeding, welfaring these invaders is not cheap.

    But the down the road costs are staggering–they will be net tax easters costing 100s of billions in their lifetimes. Their descendants will push that to trillions and then trillions more in declined productivity and increased costs. And by degrading the future genome of the nation and increasing social friction … the future America will be poorer by tens of trillions.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @AnotherDad

    "The Wall isn't the least bit expensive and unlike most all other it starts saving money immediately."

    Not really, it is more for show since most illegal immigrants don't sneak across the border. More effective would be making it illegal to hire illegals. What's the current status of e-verify?

    To answer my own question it appears e-verify is largely voluntary. Make it mandatory.

  102. @AnotherDad
    @Anonymous



    The $41 billion we gave to Ukraine this year was far more catastrophic to our nation than the destruction of a single 25 year-old Naval Ship valued at $1.2 billion.
     
    And yet Steve seems to support this largesse.

    We could have built two Walls on our border with that kind of money. Or given it directly to Israel spread over ten years.
     
    Never assume building the Wall had anything to do with cost. $41 billion for Ukraine is a tiny sliver in the US federal budget < 1%. A very solid $25 billion Wall would be even less.

    The Wall isn't the least bit expensive and unlike most all other it starts saving money immediately.

    We don't have the Wall because a big tranche of our "American" "elites" do not want to have a Wall, because they want the illegal flow to continue.


    "Biden's" open border policy is far and away the biggest disaster of 2022.

    It will cost something like Ukraine just straight up. Processing, transporting, dumping, housing, feeding, welfaring these invaders is not cheap.

    But the down the road costs are staggering--they will be net tax easters costing 100s of billions in their lifetimes. Their descendants will push that to trillions and then trillions more in declined productivity and increased costs. And by degrading the future genome of the nation and increasing social friction ... the future America will be poorer by tens of trillions.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “The Wall isn’t the least bit expensive and unlike most all other it starts saving money immediately.”

    Not really, it is more for show since most illegal immigrants don’t sneak across the border. More effective would be making it illegal to hire illegals. What’s the current status of e-verify?

    To answer my own question it appears e-verify is largely voluntary. Make it mandatory.

  103. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @AKAHorace
    @Anon


    On an Amphib it’s even worse, as they also have to police the entire vehicle bays and well decks, despite not having any Hull Techs or Enginemen who are actually trained to maintain that type of equipment. At least on the destroyer we only had to deal with topside spaces and the flight deck.
     
    This sounds interesting, but I don't understand it. I would be grateful if you explained this in more detail

    Replies: @anon

    Sure. Deck is in charge of the weatherdecks so anywhere exposed to the elements. On the Wasp-class ships, they carry LCACs and Amtracks for amphibious assault and technically any operation where the ship launches watercraft is run by Deck. So the ship floods partially, allowing water into the well deck, then the LCACs or Amtracks swim out, then you pump out the water and sail on while the Marines go do whatever on their excursion. Above the well decks are the vehicle decks, which are also technically open to the weather as they are open to the well deck since you just drive the vehicles down from their into the well.

    The sterngate keeps the sea out normally when you aren’t flooded, thats like the transom on the back of the well deck, and it lays down when you’re deploying for amphibious attack. I’ve never been billeted on a Wasp-class but everything I’ve heard is that the process of partially flooding your very expensive warship with seawater, innundating everything in salt and whatever else, and getting it all over the huge pumps and hydraulics needed to manipulate the sterngate makes a maintenance nightmare, especially since Deck is just BMs, whose only real in-rate specialty is to be coxswains and helmsmen, so don’t have any engineering training.

    Deck is much bigger on an amphib also. On a DDG or CG it’s just a division, under the operations department, run by an Ensign. On an Amphib it’s it’s own department with a couple internal divisions, and I think usually an O-4 running the show, and they have a special billet called ‘Bosun’ that’s a prior enlisted officer to assist the 1st LT since it’s an order of magnitude more complicated than the Deck operations on a destroyer or cruiser.

    • Thanks: AKAHorace
  104. @AnotherDad
    @theMann


    It stops in one day when parents start applying some beatdowns. A Country the coined the phrase “ridden out of town on a rail” has come to this.
     
    I've thought about the beatdowns. At the HS level, these perverts invading the girls locker room and waving their dicks around would seem to be the sort of thing would get some fathers, brothers and boyfriends to apply a reality check.

    But here's the gist of it:

    Under minoritarianism, the state police power is used to not to protect the community and enforce its civilized norms but to punishpeople for enforcing civilized norms and protecting the community

    Minoritarianism is the ideology of turning the state against the community and nation it is suppose to serve.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    The Daily Mail reported today that two people in the crowd who shut up a heckler (of Andrew) in the Queen’s Edinburgh funeral procession have been arrested for assault. The Scots have “fiscals” (DA), one of whom will decide whether to prosecute or not. The DM disabled online comments on the article, which is unusual for them.

  105. @Louis Renault
    A member of the protected race committed arson as part of a book writing exercise to see what the response of the fire brigade would be to a fire breathing dragon aboard ship? That's less of a defense than "racism!", but certainly, knowing a few E4s from years ago, more believable than a guy getting dissed by some girl and setting fire to the ship he lives on.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  106. @JimDandy
    Can you shout fire in a crowded theater if you see a black guy setting it on fire?

    Replies: @Bernie

    Only if you want a 20-year sentence for hate crimes ….

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  107. anon[226] • Disclaimer says:

    “Not really, it is more for show since most illegal immigrants don’t sneak across the border. ”

    From what I’ve read its about half with the other half visa overstayers or others who were granted temporary permission to stay and then just didn’t leave. The ‘wall’ done right is a very effective tool, as the experience in the San Diego sector shows. (It’s double and tripple layer mostly chainlink with barbed wire caps there). Even NPR had to admit in a 2006 story that illegal crossings are down dramatically there. And contrary to popular belief, this wall there was constructed on some pretty rugged terrain.

    Of course a wall is just a tool. It requires manning and illumination and patrolling.

  108. An LHA is not a ‘small aircraft carrier’, though it can be used as such in a pinch, with VSTOL jets. It’s primary purpose is to put Marine boots ashore.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @stari_momak

    LHA stands for Landing Helicopter Assault. Helicopters are in fact aircraft, so it is by any measure an aircraft carrier, and like you said it’s mission is to support amphibious landings.

    Replies: @stari_momak

  109. Long ago, my brother, who was a teenager at the time, was under the impression that if he pulled over his corvette and walked away in a parking lot, after a cop started chasing him for speeding, he was home free. The police informed him that he was still getting a ticket.

    It would seem the Navy does not operate on a similar premise.

    “We declined to pursue charges because the fireman who’s writing is similar to the text in a potty reading”I burned down the ship” who was writing a novel about a fire breathing dragon burning down a ship……quit the navy.”

    But whatever, its because he was black.

  110. @stari_momak
    An LHA is not a 'small aircraft carrier', though it can be used as such in a pinch, with VSTOL jets. It's primary purpose is to put Marine boots ashore.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    LHA stands for Landing Helicopter Assault. Helicopters are in fact aircraft, so it is by any measure an aircraft carrier, and like you said it’s mission is to support amphibious landings.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
    @Mike Tre

    The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA. The 'H' does indeed stand for Helicopter and the 'D' stands for Dock...because these ships can carry three hovercraft or various other combinations of amphibious assault vehicles.

    As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet that worked for decades at Long Beach Naval Shipyard (a place that as a non-nuke facility often was tasked with repairing numerous amphibious assault hips), I can tell you no one thinks of them as 'small carriers'. The US did, during WWII, have 'small aircraft carriers', escort carriers, whose primary mission was to provide air support capability to convoys and surface battle groups. That's not what the primary task of 'Gator Freighter' is.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anon

  111. @Mike Tre
    @stari_momak

    LHA stands for Landing Helicopter Assault. Helicopters are in fact aircraft, so it is by any measure an aircraft carrier, and like you said it’s mission is to support amphibious landings.

    Replies: @stari_momak

    The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA. The ‘H’ does indeed stand for Helicopter and the ‘D’ stands for Dock…because these ships can carry three hovercraft or various other combinations of amphibious assault vehicles.

    As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet that worked for decades at Long Beach Naval Shipyard (a place that as a non-nuke facility often was tasked with repairing numerous amphibious assault hips), I can tell you no one thinks of them as ‘small carriers’. The US did, during WWII, have ‘small aircraft carriers’, escort carriers, whose primary mission was to provide air support capability to convoys and surface battle groups. That’s not what the primary task of ‘Gator Freighter’ is.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @stari_momak

    "The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA."

    That's nice, but I was replying specifically to your statement where you said an LHA isn't an aircraft carrier.

    "As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet..."

    Well, as a former Marine who did 2 westpacs in 99 and 01, and spent 14 months at sea, I can tell you the common name we used for the LHA's Peleliu and Belleau Wood was "helo-carrier." I was on LPD's both floats: The Ogden the first time and the Cleveland the second time.

    I mean, they have the word "helicopter" in their name. They carry aircraft. You don't like the term mini, fine, but it's not inaccurate. They are for all intents and purposes aircraft carriers, regardless of their amphibious capabilities.

    , @Anon
    @stari_momak

    One interesting conspiracy theory I've heard is that the Navy backed the F-35 program despite having a general policy of not liking joint-service jets after the F-111 debacle, because the Marine's F-35B brings the LHAs and LHDs much closer to parity to our old CVLs than they were with only AV-8s onboard.

    So a bunch of Admirals gaslit the Marines about Guadacanal and how we couldn't promise it wouldn't happen again and how they really needed to dedicate their entire aviation budget for the foreseeable future to a STOVL stealth fighter in case they needed to operate Henderson Field style again, but the Navy's endgame was just to turn the gators into baby carriers, and effectively take control of a large percentage of the overall Marine Air Wings and use them for DCA and Sea Control. It's no secret that the Navy in general thinks the entire amphibious assault mission is increasingly quixotic and would much rather have the significant assets dedicated to it be devoted to regular blue-water-brawling type assets.

    I don't know if that's how it actually went down at the Pentagon but I thought it was an interesting theory, and certainly the LHAs and LHDs now are much more capable due to the F-35B than they were previously, especially in the context of regular Navy priorities IE sinking enemy fleets.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  112. @stari_momak
    @Mike Tre

    The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA. The 'H' does indeed stand for Helicopter and the 'D' stands for Dock...because these ships can carry three hovercraft or various other combinations of amphibious assault vehicles.

    As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet that worked for decades at Long Beach Naval Shipyard (a place that as a non-nuke facility often was tasked with repairing numerous amphibious assault hips), I can tell you no one thinks of them as 'small carriers'. The US did, during WWII, have 'small aircraft carriers', escort carriers, whose primary mission was to provide air support capability to convoys and surface battle groups. That's not what the primary task of 'Gator Freighter' is.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anon

    “The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA.”

    That’s nice, but I was replying specifically to your statement where you said an LHA isn’t an aircraft carrier.

    “As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet…”

    Well, as a former Marine who did 2 westpacs in 99 and 01, and spent 14 months at sea, I can tell you the common name we used for the LHA’s Peleliu and Belleau Wood was “helo-carrier.” I was on LPD’s both floats: The Ogden the first time and the Cleveland the second time.

    I mean, they have the word “helicopter” in their name. They carry aircraft. You don’t like the term mini, fine, but it’s not inaccurate. They are for all intents and purposes aircraft carriers, regardless of their amphibious capabilities.

  113. Anon[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @stari_momak
    @Mike Tre

    The Bonhomme Richard was an LHD not an LHA. The 'H' does indeed stand for Helicopter and the 'D' stands for Dock...because these ships can carry three hovercraft or various other combinations of amphibious assault vehicles.

    As a Navy vet and son of a Navy vet that worked for decades at Long Beach Naval Shipyard (a place that as a non-nuke facility often was tasked with repairing numerous amphibious assault hips), I can tell you no one thinks of them as 'small carriers'. The US did, during WWII, have 'small aircraft carriers', escort carriers, whose primary mission was to provide air support capability to convoys and surface battle groups. That's not what the primary task of 'Gator Freighter' is.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anon

    One interesting conspiracy theory I’ve heard is that the Navy backed the F-35 program despite having a general policy of not liking joint-service jets after the F-111 debacle, because the Marine’s F-35B brings the LHAs and LHDs much closer to parity to our old CVLs than they were with only AV-8s onboard.

    So a bunch of Admirals gaslit the Marines about Guadacanal and how we couldn’t promise it wouldn’t happen again and how they really needed to dedicate their entire aviation budget for the foreseeable future to a STOVL stealth fighter in case they needed to operate Henderson Field style again, but the Navy’s endgame was just to turn the gators into baby carriers, and effectively take control of a large percentage of the overall Marine Air Wings and use them for DCA and Sea Control. It’s no secret that the Navy in general thinks the entire amphibious assault mission is increasingly quixotic and would much rather have the significant assets dedicated to it be devoted to regular blue-water-brawling type assets.

    I don’t know if that’s how it actually went down at the Pentagon but I thought it was an interesting theory, and certainly the LHAs and LHDs now are much more capable due to the F-35B than they were previously, especially in the context of regular Navy priorities IE sinking enemy fleets.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    But it's really the MV-22B that is important because it is the MEU elements that justify the LHs. The Marines aboard the Iwo Jima got to Kabul to assist the evacuation aboard their Ospreys. F/A-18s from the Reagan provided air cover (one of those aviators being my relative by marriage). F-35Bs weren't needed.
    Incidentally, I have a friend who, along with his brother, both aeronautical engineers with subsidiaries of United Technologies, worked on the F-35 project from its inception to completion. Both say it was the VTOL requirement the Marines wanted that caused all the delays and cost over-runs the program experienced. Neither the Navy nor Air needed or wanted that capability.
    Incidentally the second, I have a close relative, Marine aviator, qualified in the F-35B who, when he resigned his commission was offered a $35,000 bonus to stay in another six years. When he said no and kept saying no, the bonus was eventually raised to $210,000. I've heard that so many Marine pilots are getting out that the Marines may have to reduce their procurement of the F-35B -- they don't have enough qualified pilots to fly it. That goes along with the Corps bleeding senior NCOs, an even more devastating loss.

    Replies: @Anon

  114. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @stari_momak

    One interesting conspiracy theory I've heard is that the Navy backed the F-35 program despite having a general policy of not liking joint-service jets after the F-111 debacle, because the Marine's F-35B brings the LHAs and LHDs much closer to parity to our old CVLs than they were with only AV-8s onboard.

    So a bunch of Admirals gaslit the Marines about Guadacanal and how we couldn't promise it wouldn't happen again and how they really needed to dedicate their entire aviation budget for the foreseeable future to a STOVL stealth fighter in case they needed to operate Henderson Field style again, but the Navy's endgame was just to turn the gators into baby carriers, and effectively take control of a large percentage of the overall Marine Air Wings and use them for DCA and Sea Control. It's no secret that the Navy in general thinks the entire amphibious assault mission is increasingly quixotic and would much rather have the significant assets dedicated to it be devoted to regular blue-water-brawling type assets.

    I don't know if that's how it actually went down at the Pentagon but I thought it was an interesting theory, and certainly the LHAs and LHDs now are much more capable due to the F-35B than they were previously, especially in the context of regular Navy priorities IE sinking enemy fleets.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    But it’s really the MV-22B that is important because it is the MEU elements that justify the LHs. The Marines aboard the Iwo Jima got to Kabul to assist the evacuation aboard their Ospreys. F/A-18s from the Reagan provided air cover (one of those aviators being my relative by marriage). F-35Bs weren’t needed.
    Incidentally, I have a friend who, along with his brother, both aeronautical engineers with subsidiaries of United Technologies, worked on the F-35 project from its inception to completion. Both say it was the VTOL requirement the Marines wanted that caused all the delays and cost over-runs the program experienced. Neither the Navy nor Air needed or wanted that capability.
    Incidentally the second, I have a close relative, Marine aviator, qualified in the F-35B who, when he resigned his commission was offered a $35,000 bonus to stay in another six years. When he said no and kept saying no, the bonus was eventually raised to $210,000. I’ve heard that so many Marine pilots are getting out that the Marines may have to reduce their procurement of the F-35B — they don’t have enough qualified pilots to fly it. That goes along with the Corps bleeding senior NCOs, an even more devastating loss.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous

    For sure the Osprey is an underappreciated game changer in Naval Aviation, but CH-53 to MV-22B isn't really a total capability rewrite in the way that an AV-8B to a F-35B is in terms of MAW makeup. Plus, Marine Hornets have been getting scavenged by Big Navy for at least a decade as the Navy's Hornets got trapped out, pushing VFMA squadrons onto real actual carriers for the first time since, what, Vietnam? That was another interesting transition the media missed... You had a shit load of very senior Marine Aviators with 10 total traps in their logbooks, and those from the last 2 weeks of Advanced, decades ago for them, and then were suddenly expected to become carrier proficient. I'm surprised it worked out as well as it did, frankly. Especially since the Corps had a lot of ancient C models without MFDs or anything.

    Yeah the VTOL was a significant problem according to the popular literature regarding the F-35 but thats in some ways a facile analysis. The Yak-141 was a major design influence from the very beginning of the program, so much so that Lockheed actually acquired one to work out the lift fan dynamics as exhaust ducting ala the Harrier is obviously not stealthy. Really the blank sheet design's first influences were the Yak-141, for both Boeing and Lockheed (but especially Lockheed) during the competition. What's interesting is to compare total product buys and which came online first. I don't think it's a coincidence that the B variant was first to IOP, and is also mega popular with foreign sales... to foreign allied Navies. They basically *only* have stuff we would roughly lump in with LHAs/LHDs/CVLs and not true super carriers, and the B works great for them.

    In a Taiwan Strait Shootout situation, the Navy had just had the A-12 blow up in their face, the Sea Raptor was never going to work with the state of RAM technology at the time, and we had retired the A-6 and F-14 way ahead of their useful lifespans and were stuck with the bug and superbug both of which, while very, very nasty WVR due to their crazy nose-point ability at super high Alpha, are seriously compromised as true Air Dominance Fighters in a strategic sense, mostly by range and signature. So the Navy sidled into the F-35 program, took a paltry buy of F-35Cs (smallest production variant by a massive margin) and encouraged allies and the Marines to go all in on the B so that all the Japanese 'Helicopter Destroyers' and our Amphibs and the Brit flattops would all be capable of slinging off a supersonic stealth fighter with CEC and IRST. What's interesting is how the Navy really did not buy in themselves. Our F-35C buy is paltry compared to USAF and USMC investment, clearly showing NAVAIR is holding out for the F-XX and figured the Navy would just sit out the 5th generation of fighter design (as... why would you bother as the Sea Service when locked in land wars with no IADS or DCA during the entire development and IOC period of the F-35) and invest heavily in the 6th gen, when the big war at sea was likely to go down.

    For as much Hype as Chinas' military buildup gets, in 2005 before they really kicked it off, we could readily respond with 2 flattops to a Taiwan Strait situation, flying entirely severely compromised 4th gen fighters. In 2022 we can immediately respond with 6 flattops in day one or two of war, loaded for bear with supersonic stealth fighters. And that was a result of zero US Navy dollars invested, but more the finesse move with the F-35B. As a Navy man I like to think that this was an elaborate well thought out scheme by the gold braid boys but either way, it's a major boon to our seapower in the region and I'm very grateful for it.

    Everyone is getting bled out of the fixed wing community in the military. It's bad. Starting pay at Envoy (the United pilot training regional pipeline) has increased 300% in 24 months. United Captains are pulling down easy 220k, flying less than 1/2 time now. Overtime is 3x regular rate, and everyone is pulling overtime. Mostly this is due to ATP requirements after the 'miracle on the Hudson'. Tell any kid you care about with good vision to go to flight school. I know I've been out of the game for 8 years and I get a call every other day telling me to suit up again.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  115. @CharleszMartel
    @Anon

    I guess someone's got to say it, so it might as well be me...

    "The United States Navy- 200 years of tradition, unencumbered by progress!"

    Rules for seamen:

    "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it!".

    And for our cousins across the pond-

    "The Royal Navy- 400 years of Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash!"

    Thanks for the interesting info on Navy life.

    Replies: @Lurker, @Gordo, @36 ulster

    Nelson did away with one of those three. David Owen (Labour, of course) did away with the rum (grog).

  116. @AnotherDad
    @Mike Tre

    Of all the heroes of 2020, Saint George, of course, soars above all. But George Floyd is hardly a mere mortal man, but more an ethereal being who came down upon this earth--doing some home invasion robberies and drug dealing--to sacrifice his life, to cleanse us all of our original 1619 sin of racism.

    But as mortal men go--you gotta give it up for Elijah McGovern. Burning out a $1.2 billion dollar light carrier and sending it to the scrap heap.... that's beats the pants off burning our a McDonalds or some car lot in Kenosha. And he got away with it! Scot free.

    Elijah McGovern really should be 2020 BLM activist of the year!

    ~~~

    Of course, we're talking about the Negro Leagues here.

    There's no challenge to the 2020 big kahuna of wreckers. Funding this useless--but for creating a pandemic--"gain of function" research on the Yunnan cave bat virus, in China, seeing it leak, peddling useless to destructive pandemic advice, being able to buy off and silence scientists questioning your narrative by threating their funding ... and yet being slathered with slobbering praise, as if some oracle of wisdom, by the press. The overall 2020 wrecker--trillions of damages--is untouched.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Veteran Aryan

    The overall 2020 wrecker–trillions of damages–is untouched.

    Not the biggest mass murderer of all time, but in the top five and climbing.

  117. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anon

    But it's really the MV-22B that is important because it is the MEU elements that justify the LHs. The Marines aboard the Iwo Jima got to Kabul to assist the evacuation aboard their Ospreys. F/A-18s from the Reagan provided air cover (one of those aviators being my relative by marriage). F-35Bs weren't needed.
    Incidentally, I have a friend who, along with his brother, both aeronautical engineers with subsidiaries of United Technologies, worked on the F-35 project from its inception to completion. Both say it was the VTOL requirement the Marines wanted that caused all the delays and cost over-runs the program experienced. Neither the Navy nor Air needed or wanted that capability.
    Incidentally the second, I have a close relative, Marine aviator, qualified in the F-35B who, when he resigned his commission was offered a $35,000 bonus to stay in another six years. When he said no and kept saying no, the bonus was eventually raised to $210,000. I've heard that so many Marine pilots are getting out that the Marines may have to reduce their procurement of the F-35B -- they don't have enough qualified pilots to fly it. That goes along with the Corps bleeding senior NCOs, an even more devastating loss.

    Replies: @Anon

    For sure the Osprey is an underappreciated game changer in Naval Aviation, but CH-53 to MV-22B isn’t really a total capability rewrite in the way that an AV-8B to a F-35B is in terms of MAW makeup. Plus, Marine Hornets have been getting scavenged by Big Navy for at least a decade as the Navy’s Hornets got trapped out, pushing VFMA squadrons onto real actual carriers for the first time since, what, Vietnam? That was another interesting transition the media missed… You had a shit load of very senior Marine Aviators with 10 total traps in their logbooks, and those from the last 2 weeks of Advanced, decades ago for them, and then were suddenly expected to become carrier proficient. I’m surprised it worked out as well as it did, frankly. Especially since the Corps had a lot of ancient C models without MFDs or anything.

    [MORE]

    Yeah the VTOL was a significant problem according to the popular literature regarding the F-35 but thats in some ways a facile analysis. The Yak-141 was a major design influence from the very beginning of the program, so much so that Lockheed actually acquired one to work out the lift fan dynamics as exhaust ducting ala the Harrier is obviously not stealthy. Really the blank sheet design’s first influences were the Yak-141, for both Boeing and Lockheed (but especially Lockheed) during the competition. What’s interesting is to compare total product buys and which came online first. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the B variant was first to IOP, and is also mega popular with foreign sales… to foreign allied Navies. They basically *only* have stuff we would roughly lump in with LHAs/LHDs/CVLs and not true super carriers, and the B works great for them.

    In a Taiwan Strait Shootout situation, the Navy had just had the A-12 blow up in their face, the Sea Raptor was never going to work with the state of RAM technology at the time, and we had retired the A-6 and F-14 way ahead of their useful lifespans and were stuck with the bug and superbug both of which, while very, very nasty WVR due to their crazy nose-point ability at super high Alpha, are seriously compromised as true Air Dominance Fighters in a strategic sense, mostly by range and signature. So the Navy sidled into the F-35 program, took a paltry buy of F-35Cs (smallest production variant by a massive margin) and encouraged allies and the Marines to go all in on the B so that all the Japanese ‘Helicopter Destroyers’ and our Amphibs and the Brit flattops would all be capable of slinging off a supersonic stealth fighter with CEC and IRST. What’s interesting is how the Navy really did not buy in themselves. Our F-35C buy is paltry compared to USAF and USMC investment, clearly showing NAVAIR is holding out for the F-XX and figured the Navy would just sit out the 5th generation of fighter design (as… why would you bother as the Sea Service when locked in land wars with no IADS or DCA during the entire development and IOC period of the F-35) and invest heavily in the 6th gen, when the big war at sea was likely to go down.

    For as much Hype as Chinas’ military buildup gets, in 2005 before they really kicked it off, we could readily respond with 2 flattops to a Taiwan Strait situation, flying entirely severely compromised 4th gen fighters. In 2022 we can immediately respond with 6 flattops in day one or two of war, loaded for bear with supersonic stealth fighters. And that was a result of zero US Navy dollars invested, but more the finesse move with the F-35B. As a Navy man I like to think that this was an elaborate well thought out scheme by the gold braid boys but either way, it’s a major boon to our seapower in the region and I’m very grateful for it.

    Everyone is getting bled out of the fixed wing community in the military. It’s bad. Starting pay at Envoy (the United pilot training regional pipeline) has increased 300% in 24 months. United Captains are pulling down easy 220k, flying less than 1/2 time now. Overtime is 3x regular rate, and everyone is pulling overtime. Mostly this is due to ATP requirements after the ‘miracle on the Hudson’. Tell any kid you care about with good vision to go to flight school. I know I’ve been out of the game for 8 years and I get a call every other day telling me to suit up again.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Anon

    Great comment. Thanks.

    It would be even better with a glossary of the acronyms. ;-)

  118. @Anon
    @Anonymous

    For sure the Osprey is an underappreciated game changer in Naval Aviation, but CH-53 to MV-22B isn't really a total capability rewrite in the way that an AV-8B to a F-35B is in terms of MAW makeup. Plus, Marine Hornets have been getting scavenged by Big Navy for at least a decade as the Navy's Hornets got trapped out, pushing VFMA squadrons onto real actual carriers for the first time since, what, Vietnam? That was another interesting transition the media missed... You had a shit load of very senior Marine Aviators with 10 total traps in their logbooks, and those from the last 2 weeks of Advanced, decades ago for them, and then were suddenly expected to become carrier proficient. I'm surprised it worked out as well as it did, frankly. Especially since the Corps had a lot of ancient C models without MFDs or anything.

    Yeah the VTOL was a significant problem according to the popular literature regarding the F-35 but thats in some ways a facile analysis. The Yak-141 was a major design influence from the very beginning of the program, so much so that Lockheed actually acquired one to work out the lift fan dynamics as exhaust ducting ala the Harrier is obviously not stealthy. Really the blank sheet design's first influences were the Yak-141, for both Boeing and Lockheed (but especially Lockheed) during the competition. What's interesting is to compare total product buys and which came online first. I don't think it's a coincidence that the B variant was first to IOP, and is also mega popular with foreign sales... to foreign allied Navies. They basically *only* have stuff we would roughly lump in with LHAs/LHDs/CVLs and not true super carriers, and the B works great for them.

    In a Taiwan Strait Shootout situation, the Navy had just had the A-12 blow up in their face, the Sea Raptor was never going to work with the state of RAM technology at the time, and we had retired the A-6 and F-14 way ahead of their useful lifespans and were stuck with the bug and superbug both of which, while very, very nasty WVR due to their crazy nose-point ability at super high Alpha, are seriously compromised as true Air Dominance Fighters in a strategic sense, mostly by range and signature. So the Navy sidled into the F-35 program, took a paltry buy of F-35Cs (smallest production variant by a massive margin) and encouraged allies and the Marines to go all in on the B so that all the Japanese 'Helicopter Destroyers' and our Amphibs and the Brit flattops would all be capable of slinging off a supersonic stealth fighter with CEC and IRST. What's interesting is how the Navy really did not buy in themselves. Our F-35C buy is paltry compared to USAF and USMC investment, clearly showing NAVAIR is holding out for the F-XX and figured the Navy would just sit out the 5th generation of fighter design (as... why would you bother as the Sea Service when locked in land wars with no IADS or DCA during the entire development and IOC period of the F-35) and invest heavily in the 6th gen, when the big war at sea was likely to go down.

    For as much Hype as Chinas' military buildup gets, in 2005 before they really kicked it off, we could readily respond with 2 flattops to a Taiwan Strait situation, flying entirely severely compromised 4th gen fighters. In 2022 we can immediately respond with 6 flattops in day one or two of war, loaded for bear with supersonic stealth fighters. And that was a result of zero US Navy dollars invested, but more the finesse move with the F-35B. As a Navy man I like to think that this was an elaborate well thought out scheme by the gold braid boys but either way, it's a major boon to our seapower in the region and I'm very grateful for it.

    Everyone is getting bled out of the fixed wing community in the military. It's bad. Starting pay at Envoy (the United pilot training regional pipeline) has increased 300% in 24 months. United Captains are pulling down easy 220k, flying less than 1/2 time now. Overtime is 3x regular rate, and everyone is pulling overtime. Mostly this is due to ATP requirements after the 'miracle on the Hudson'. Tell any kid you care about with good vision to go to flight school. I know I've been out of the game for 8 years and I get a call every other day telling me to suit up again.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Great comment. Thanks.

    It would be even better with a glossary of the acronyms. 😉

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