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Turkish Attempted Coup Backgrounders: Who Is Imam Gulen and Why Is He America's Largest Charter School Operator?
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Screenshot 2016-07-15 16.25.11

There’s a coup attempt going on in Turkey by the military. But Erdogan, the long time big man, is also blaming his former ally, Imam Gulen’s cult, which controlled the test prep centers of Turkey and became the biggest operator of charter schools in the U.S. Here’s my 2014 Taki’s Magazine article on Gulen in case he proves relevant:

The Shadowy Imam of the Poconos
by Steve Sailer
January 01, 2014

And even if the military hasn’t aligned itself with Gulen, the way Erdogan aligned with Gulen to take down the military around 2012 and then Erdogan aligned with the military to take down Gulen around 2014, it’s still pretty informative about How Things Work in Turkey.

By the way, the FBI was aggressively raiding Gulen charter schools across America in 2014, looking to document how the cult skims money from local American taxpayers to finance their operations, but I haven’t heard much about it recently. My assumption would be that the CIA explained to the FBI that having local property taxpayers ripped off for a few hundred million per year is a cheap way to have a potential player in the Great Game of “Who Controls Constantinople?” (But I’m making that up, so don’t take my word for it.)

And here’s my more general 2013 article I wrote for Taki’s on the deep structures of Turkish politics:

The Byzantine Forces Behind Turkish Politics
by Steve Sailer
June 19, 2013

Also, remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which, for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?

I have this weird notion that the European Union would be more popular with Europeans if it tried harder to benefit Europeans than non-Europeans in, say, West Asia.

 
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  1. • Replies: @Anon
    @wren

    That Hillary, helping stage a coup before she's even in office. I think she just wants another notch on her broomstick.

  2. My hat off to you, Steve Sailer. You’ve been talking about Turkey for years.

    How does the government ignore such a resource. Oh yea. Well, regardless, well done, sir.

    • Replies: @Josh
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    He just happened to go there once. Pay attention. On the other hand, if this turns out to be cool, everyone to whom I ever mentioned gulen will think me pretty smart, so thanks for that, Steve.

  3. OK, who are the good guys… meaning, least Islamic guys?

    • Replies: @Cromwellforever
    @anon

    The militarists/Kemalists. In Turkey being a snooty, coastal blue stater who likes booze is associated with loving the military.

    Replies: @EdwardM

  4. the garage must wait

  5. Turkey: Give us this decade our decadely military coup.

  6. Steve did you get your garage cleaned?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Rise

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    Replies: @countenance, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @Anonym, @Jim Christian

  7. If this coup fails Erdogan will be even worse than before.

    • Agree: Barnard, NOTA
  8. Erdogan has been too independent and had been making nice with Putin. US/NATO want Turkey as a reliable bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War.

    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @utu
    @Anonymous

    2 days ago Guardian: Syrian rebels stunned as Turkey signals normalisation of Damascus relations https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/13/turkey-pm-greatest-goal-is-to-improve-relations-with-syria-and-iraq?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Why Erdogan has changed his policy by (1) restoring relations with Isarele, (2) restore relations with Russia, (3) accept Assad regime I do not know. But clearly it seems that by doing it he upset some powerful people.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  9. I’m sure the US government will make noises about “supporting the legitimately elected government”; they always do and don’t really have a choice.

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn’t we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn’t we welcome a return to those days?

    Or are we fearful that even an internal coup against an Islamist leader will stir up the crazies? OTOH, we might figure the crazies are, well, crazy and will act up no matter what, so we might as well have the more secular guys in charge … the guys we’re used to working with.

    I must say, this is quite a refreshing bit of old-timey international news compared to what we have been dealing with lately. It’s like mid-century modern international affairs.

    Speaking of which, how does Russia feel about this? Didn’t Putin and Erogan not get along? Could there be Russian support for this coup? Or American support? Or, even, in a charmingly Cold War-like bit of irony, support from both?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn’t we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn’t we welcome a return to those days?

    No, and no. The "secular" army officers are an extension of the same globalist regime that we are trying to throw out of power in the United States and Europe. We should support our nationalist brothers in Turkey.

    Replies: @Hepp, @Maj. Kong

    , @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    Both neocons and the State Dept./CIA hate Erdogan and want the military or someone else in charge. Erdogan is too independent and a populist. Gulen is a State/CIA asset and favorite. The military is also very pro-Israel.

    Fundamental US/NATO policy is to have Turkey as a bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War. Turkey was sort of like US/NATO's version of Cuba for Russia during the Cold War, but with a better and bigger military. Turkey hosted nukes aimed at Russia during the Cold War. Erdogan is too independent and won't play along, and US/NATO want Turkey back in this role to confront Russia. US/NATO also don't want a German-Turkish axis to arise that would dominate Europe and the Near East. Kemalist or Gulenist Turkey also makes Turkish accession into the EU more likely.

    So one's views on the coup depends on one's views on these matters, rather than on "Islamism".

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Neoconned, @Bill

    , @PV van der Byl
    @SteveO

    Erdogan blames the coup attempt on Gulenists (Islamist competitors) rather than secular Kemalists.

  10. @Paul Rise
    Steve did you get your garage cleaned?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    • Replies: @countenance
    @Steve Sailer

    Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps somebody would like to apply to be Mr. Sailer's intern or apprentice?
    If he's going to keep reviewing and approving all the comments himself, maybe there are some chores he wouldn't mind delegating?

    Replies: @Lagertha

    , @Anonym
    @Steve Sailer

    The approaching terrorism (or is that, iSteve event?) singularity means that your garage will, unfortunately, never be cleaned. Such is life.

    , @Jim Christian
    @Steve Sailer

    Events, yes Steve, and then there's the golf, The Open Championship where Phil is making his presence known. A nice distraction from the uglies of the past couple of days..

  11. Wahoo! Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That’s more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can’t even begin to imagine the refugee mess.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Wilkey

    "Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That’s more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can’t even begin to imagine the refugee mess."

    So this is a wonderful opportunity for the US to help out Europe and increase our own Diversity at the same time. When the secularists start persecuting the Islamists, we can take a few million religious refugees over here in the US and spread them all across the country, to Enrich us and our Children with Diversity for decades to come.

    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Wilkey

    That was my first deep state thought when I saw all those guys with five o'clock shadows and gold chains in the squares... How many more DJs and bouncers does Germany need?

    , @Louis Renault
    @Wilkey

    15 million hungry mouths to feed. Nine meals away from a different kind of riot.

    , @Bill
    @Wilkey

    It's not important to your point, but Istanbul is in Europe.

  12. Graham Fuller, the CIA guy you’ve blogged about before with ties to the Tsarnaevs and apparently sponsored their move to the US, also backed Gulen’s exile and move to the US.

  13. As the news was breaking I walked over to my Turkish colleague’s desk–he was listening on his iPhone to Turkish media–and he said point blank that it was Gulen’s guys. According to him Erdogan cleaned house a couple years ago but still about 1/4-1/3 of the army is pro-Gulen, including the Turkish equivalent of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (I think I impressed him with my iSteve-derived knowledge of Gulen because he was prepared to give a long backstory.)

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @everyday feminist

    That's something I'm finding difficult -- "pro-Gulen" -- and ~33% of the Turkish military feels this way?

    ...what's this guy's draw? It's like he's Kane from the Brotherhood of Nod.

    Replies: @everyday feminist

  14. I think it is safe to say you called this one again, Steve. “This country can’t be managed from Pennsylvania.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/07/15/erdogan-seeks-asylum-in-germany-report.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    @Bill Brasky

    Who ever denied Erdogan asylum in Germany has blood on their hands. Now that he has crushed the coup he will execute a lot of people, western politicians will ritualistically condemn him, but how seriously can he take them ?


    The one useful thing that western asylum policy can do is to allow rulers from African and Asian countries to escape and so prevent civil war or massive purges.

  15. Steve, you were soooo right about “Events” in your garage cleaning post!

    What crazy times. Just imagine how different the world might have turned out if Bush Jr did not attack Iraq.

  16. Well, it looks like the coup failed.

    The President and Secretary of State wouldn’t endorse a government which had actually been deposed.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Das

    I don't know, it kind of reeks of desperation. The situation is probably still ongoing.

    The same desperation that got Erdogan to call (via FaceTime in a curtained room lol) for unarmed citizens to take to the streets against tanks.

    The coup would probably succeed otherwise. Looks like the Turkish government's going to go for the sympathy card.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Das

    Are you sure?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692693/Turkish-military-launch-attempted-coup-depose-government.html

    Or are you just another outlet for the disgusting New York Times?

    Replies: @BB753

  17. a really interesting scenario would now be when the Turkish military, together with Iran and Russia (despite obvious conflict potential between the Turkish military and Russia) would stop the Syrian war within months, with a clear winner Assad.
    This whole year-long charade of this ridiculous war would come to an end. The essential lies the western mainstream lives with would pop like bubbles. It would be obvious that the whole war was all about Islamic world-reigning ambitions, nurtured by oil money and mass immigration to the West. It would be obvious that all this suffering in Syria was only possible because western countries would do anything, risk the lives of hundred of thousands of people, because they would admit that there is a little problem with Islam in its current (!) form. While moderate Islamist like Erdogan of course somehow support IS.
    And of course it would make the open border non-legal leadership from Merkel even more ridiculous.

  18. @Anonymous
    Erdogan has been too independent and had been making nice with Putin. US/NATO want Turkey as a reliable bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War.

    Replies: @utu

    2 days ago Guardian: Syrian rebels stunned as Turkey signals normalisation of Damascus relations https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/13/turkey-pm-greatest-goal-is-to-improve-relations-with-syria-and-iraq?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Why Erdogan has changed his policy by (1) restoring relations with Isarele, (2) restore relations with Russia, (3) accept Assad regime I do not know. But clearly it seems that by doing it he upset some powerful people.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @utu

    Erdogan also patched things up with Israel in the last few weeks.

    Replies: @Not Raul

  19. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Rise

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    Replies: @countenance, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @Anonym, @Jim Christian

    Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @countenance

    "Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school."

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    Replies: @Lot, @Neoconned, @NOTA

  20. Europe does not need Turkey. 2 Muslim countries Bosnia and Albania is already 2 too many. We don’t need any more Muslim countries to join the European continent. Turkey should stay with the MENAs.

    • Replies: @gzu
    @Jefferson

    " 2 Muslim countries Bosnia and Albania is already 2 too many. "

    Go swallow razors.

    Replies: @Jefferson

  21. Strangely related, but there may have been a coup in the Brexit movement that nobody noticed until now.

    “Lord Wolfson, chief executive of Next, said: “Any move to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands would be very dangerous for the economy.”

    It sounds, at first, like a curious thing for a Leave voter to say.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36796212

    • Replies: @gruff
    @Tex

    Look how fast his eyes blink. Lying weasel.

  22. How soon before Lindsay Graham and John McCain demand that the U.S. intervene militarily to restore democracy?

    • Replies: @Another Canadian
    @Daniel H

    Where? At the Cleveland convention?

  23. What the heck! I come in from mowing the lawn and I thought Steve was joking. Then I pulled up Drudge and couldn’t believe it.

    Unfortunately more turmoil in another muslim nation means Europe’s islamization will continue.

  24. Funny watching the cable news. They could not figure out the narrative until Obama came out and sided with the Islamist. The news suddenly shifted to pro-Islamist and anti-coup. Given Obama’s record, Erdoğan should probably leave the country.

  25. Andalou News is calling the rebels “Feto” which is apparently a reference to Gulen, and not Greek cheese.

    I find the whole charter school-military coup connection troubling.

    • Replies: @YT Wurlitzer
    @Tex

    Gullen's first name is Fethullah, so it stand for Fethullahist Terrorist Organization.

    But he's not a terrorist here. He's milking another gift Bill Clinton left behind: The New Market Tax Credit (NMTC). "Invest" in a charter school and get a 39% tax credit! Hence the philanthropic rush to fund them. Combined with the Immigration Act of 1990 creating EB-5 visas in which you "invest $1mil and get the whole family in. (From an alternet article in 2015.)

    Then there are the federal grants. Arne Duncan, on the very day the scum bag stepped down gave $249mil in grants to charters. No one seems to know exactly who is doing all this education and immigration business. Maybe this covers the CIA's bills as I'm sure they're doing similar scams on every nation they want to over throw or think they might need to overthrow, so a quarter billion is just pocket money.

    I find the connections troubling, too. This and what looks similarly troubling in the refugee resettlement industry.

  26. @countenance
    @Steve Sailer

    Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school.”

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jefferson


    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.
     
    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    Replies: @FX Enderby, @Neoconned, @Anonymous

    , @Neoconned
    @Jefferson

    There was a Catholic documentary called "Demographic Winter" I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It's now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don't buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. ...

    Replies: @bomag, @gruff, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @NOTA
    @Jefferson

    Garages are rotting in the fields, due to the latest immigration crackdown.

  27. Only thing I will say about this is that no one in PA thinks of Saylorsburg as “the heart of the Poconos”: it’s just a very small strip village with some surrounding spacious suburbs and a lot of small farms that have known better days. About a mile off the Appalachian Trail.

    The Poconos — which is just a further extension of the Appalachians about ten miles further north — is associated with recreation, honeymoon trips, getaways from NY, and the housing developments aka “ghetto in the woods” that were built in the ’90’s to relocate residents from NYC. Those didn’t work out very well.

    I have relatives in the area and you can occasionally see people presumably from Gülen’s compound — women with hijabs (tesettür) and men in black slacks and white shirts — in the local grocery and department stores: stocking up, I guess. There’s also a couple of ashrams in Saylorsburg. Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don’t Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @SPMoore8

    "Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don’t Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries."

    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?

    Replies: @Lot, @SPMoore8

  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SteveO
    I'm sure the US government will make noises about "supporting the legitimately elected government"; they always do and don't really have a choice.

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn't we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn't we welcome a return to those days?

    Or are we fearful that even an internal coup against an Islamist leader will stir up the crazies? OTOH, we might figure the crazies are, well, crazy and will act up no matter what, so we might as well have the more secular guys in charge ... the guys we're used to working with.

    I must say, this is quite a refreshing bit of old-timey international news compared to what we have been dealing with lately. It's like mid-century modern international affairs.

    Speaking of which, how does Russia feel about this? Didn't Putin and Erogan not get along? Could there be Russian support for this coup? Or American support? Or, even, in a charmingly Cold War-like bit of irony, support from both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @PV van der Byl

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn’t we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn’t we welcome a return to those days?

    No, and no. The “secular” army officers are an extension of the same globalist regime that we are trying to throw out of power in the United States and Europe. We should support our nationalist brothers in Turkey.

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Anonymous

    I tend to agree. The Muslim world should have their own culture and governments that reflect the values of the people. Forced secularization has not worked, either in the West or the Middle East.

    Secularism isn't going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Maj. Kong
    @Anonymous

    The nationalists, MHP, aren't in power right now. They aren't devoted to neo-ottomanism like Islamist Erdogan is, but they are highly anti-Kurd and anti-Armenian.

    I support giving Armenia what Wilson said they were getting. And carving our a nation for the Kurds. It's time for an end to Turkish Imperialism, and for Orthodox control of Constantinople.

    Replies: @Bill

  29. @utu
    @Anonymous

    2 days ago Guardian: Syrian rebels stunned as Turkey signals normalisation of Damascus relations https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/13/turkey-pm-greatest-goal-is-to-improve-relations-with-syria-and-iraq?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Why Erdogan has changed his policy by (1) restoring relations with Isarele, (2) restore relations with Russia, (3) accept Assad regime I do not know. But clearly it seems that by doing it he upset some powerful people.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Erdogan also patched things up with Israel in the last few weeks.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    I guess Erdogan got to clean his garage today, like the Brits did in Scotland in 1820.

  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SteveO
    I'm sure the US government will make noises about "supporting the legitimately elected government"; they always do and don't really have a choice.

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn't we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn't we welcome a return to those days?

    Or are we fearful that even an internal coup against an Islamist leader will stir up the crazies? OTOH, we might figure the crazies are, well, crazy and will act up no matter what, so we might as well have the more secular guys in charge ... the guys we're used to working with.

    I must say, this is quite a refreshing bit of old-timey international news compared to what we have been dealing with lately. It's like mid-century modern international affairs.

    Speaking of which, how does Russia feel about this? Didn't Putin and Erogan not get along? Could there be Russian support for this coup? Or American support? Or, even, in a charmingly Cold War-like bit of irony, support from both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @PV van der Byl

    Both neocons and the State Dept./CIA hate Erdogan and want the military or someone else in charge. Erdogan is too independent and a populist. Gulen is a State/CIA asset and favorite. The military is also very pro-Israel.

    Fundamental US/NATO policy is to have Turkey as a bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War. Turkey was sort of like US/NATO’s version of Cuba for Russia during the Cold War, but with a better and bigger military. Turkey hosted nukes aimed at Russia during the Cold War. Erdogan is too independent and won’t play along, and US/NATO want Turkey back in this role to confront Russia. US/NATO also don’t want a German-Turkish axis to arise that would dominate Europe and the Near East. Kemalist or Gulenist Turkey also makes Turkish accession into the EU more likely.

    So one’s views on the coup depends on one’s views on these matters, rather than on “Islamism”.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for providing the Erdogan perspective. But of course it depends on Islamism. BTW thank you for your use of quotes because it demonstrates your perfidy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    , @Neoconned
    @Anonymous

    I find the fears of a German/alliance interesting.

    So this is an Anglo/Franco/Yank attempt to stop a reversion to the old WW1 order?

    , @Bill
    @Anonymous

    Yeah. The other questions it raises are 1) why Turkey was being the US/neocon's poodle in Syria before and 2) why it has changed its mind now. Typically, one blames the evil dictator of the week for whatever one doesn't like in his country's policy. In reality world, though, dictators are the heads of coalitions and not infrequently do things to service their coalition partners. That Erdogan seems to have turned, suddenly, against the neocons, provoked a coup attempt, and is now vigorously cleansing Turkish politics of (Gulenist?) judges he doesn't like is pretty suggestive that something changed in the internal dynamics of the coalition he heads.

    I'm not sure it's a German-Turkish axis, only, that's in play. Putin would like there to be a German-Russian axis. His almost unbelievable restraint over the last several years has been a play to convince the Germans that he is a stable and reliable potential partner. My guess is that the US would like a German-Turkish axis a lot better than a German-Russian axis. I guess we are playing for neither, and it remains to be seen whether that is a feasible goal for us.

  31. I hope this coup succeeds. Erdogan has been a disaster. Some of his accomplishments:
    – Has been promoting Islamism contrary to the tradition of Ataturk.
    – Has been seeking to expand territorially contrary to the tradition Ataturk.
    – Ruined relations with Russia out of pure spite and frustration.
    – Helped spawn and nurture the ISIS Frankenstein monster.
    – Pissed off the Kurds.
    – Ruined Turkey’s fine reputation as a tourist hub.
    – Helped create the refugee crisis. Blackmailed Europe over the “refugees”.
    – Has been systematically destroying freedom of the press and such things in Turkey.
    – Significantly diminished Turkey’s reputation in NATO. Gave credence to the idea that Turkey has no place in NATO.

    Good luck to the conspirators.

  32. ” … remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?”

    Because Turkey is the conduit of the new labour force needed to replace the costly one that keeps making our lives difficult because they actually want to maintain their standard of living while their overlords want to rein in the costs of maintaining them. (?)

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @The Alarmist

    I'm happy to explain the strategic reasoning of Merkel and the EU.

    Feminism has led European women to not have enough children, so now Arab migrants are invited in order to rape them.

  33. Looks like the public is rejecting the coup, which probably means the Islamists will get stronger. Not that all the people want that, it’s just the way things seem to work over there.

    If Erdogan survives, but the military is against him, he has little choice but to turn to the Islamists to hold on.

  34. @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn’t we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn’t we welcome a return to those days?

    No, and no. The "secular" army officers are an extension of the same globalist regime that we are trying to throw out of power in the United States and Europe. We should support our nationalist brothers in Turkey.

    Replies: @Hepp, @Maj. Kong

    I tend to agree. The Muslim world should have their own culture and governments that reflect the values of the people. Forced secularization has not worked, either in the West or the Middle East.

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hepp

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Why do we want to "beat Islamism" again?

    What you slur as "terrorism" is merely the war tactic of an outgunned people fighting to defend their lands from Western invasion. We started this violence. We can end it by leaving them in peace.

    --same Anonymous

    Replies: @Hepp, @Warner, @biz

  35. @SPMoore8
    Only thing I will say about this is that no one in PA thinks of Saylorsburg as "the heart of the Poconos": it's just a very small strip village with some surrounding spacious suburbs and a lot of small farms that have known better days. About a mile off the Appalachian Trail.

    The Poconos -- which is just a further extension of the Appalachians about ten miles further north -- is associated with recreation, honeymoon trips, getaways from NY, and the housing developments aka "ghetto in the woods" that were built in the '90's to relocate residents from NYC. Those didn't work out very well.

    I have relatives in the area and you can occasionally see people presumably from Gülen's compound -- women with hijabs (tesettür) and men in black slacks and white shirts -- in the local grocery and department stores: stocking up, I guess. There's also a couple of ashrams in Saylorsburg. Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don't Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don’t Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries.”

    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jefferson


    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?
     
    There are a lot of Italians in Western and Central PA, KY, and WV compared to the Midwest or South, but fewer than on the East Coast. Commonly they came to work in coal mines and steel mills.
    , @SPMoore8
    @Jefferson

    As a matter of fact, yes; that town that Malcolm Gladwell wrote about is just a few miles away, Roseto, home of the famous Roseto effect (briefly, almost no heart attacks.) Demo composition: PA Dutch (naturally), plus Welsh, Cornish, Italian for the slate pits (slate mining used to be big there, hence the alternate name "Slate Belt"), plus some Slovaks (for some reason) and I have heard some mostly assimilated Slovak Romany. Asians, AA's, Latinos all uncommon.

  36. This coup was going well until Erdogan appeared on Apple’s FaceTime.

  37. @Wilkey
    Wahoo! Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That's more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can't even begin to imagine the refugee mess.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Louis Renault, @Bill

    “Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That’s more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can’t even begin to imagine the refugee mess.”

    So this is a wonderful opportunity for the US to help out Europe and increase our own Diversity at the same time. When the secularists start persecuting the Islamists, we can take a few million religious refugees over here in the US and spread them all across the country, to Enrich us and our Children with Diversity for decades to come.

  38. @Das
    Well, it looks like the coup failed.

    The President and Secretary of State wouldn't endorse a government which had actually been deposed.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I don’t know, it kind of reeks of desperation. The situation is probably still ongoing.

    The same desperation that got Erdogan to call (via FaceTime in a curtained room lol) for unarmed citizens to take to the streets against tanks.

    The coup would probably succeed otherwise. Looks like the Turkish government’s going to go for the sympathy card.

  39. Reading iSteve preps you for absolutely anything.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Cryptogenic

    Except cleaning the garage.

    , @gruff
    @Cryptogenic

    Steve's overarching message is this: Pay Attention.

    , @Broski
    @Cryptogenic

    I still haven't figured out how to make any money off all this esoteric knowledge.

    Replies: @yowza

  40. @anon
    OK, who are the good guys... meaning, least Islamic guys?

    Replies: @Cromwellforever

    The militarists/Kemalists. In Turkey being a snooty, coastal blue stater who likes booze is associated with loving the military.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Cromwellforever

    It's an interesting dynamic. Unfortunately the cosmopolitans will always be outvoted by the crazy Muslims, as well as heartland middle class types who co-opt them, hence democracy will always be a disaster for the country.

    Pakistan has a similar dynamic. Any Paki that I have ever met longs for the Musharraf days. Egypt too. And Thailand, where communist Buddhists substitute for communist Muslims.

    Iran was probably the same before the revolution. The MSM loves to talk about the educated, worldly Iranians who are yearning to be free of sharia, but they only talk to people in Tehran coffee bars and exiled elites. That country has the government it deserves.

  41. @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    Both neocons and the State Dept./CIA hate Erdogan and want the military or someone else in charge. Erdogan is too independent and a populist. Gulen is a State/CIA asset and favorite. The military is also very pro-Israel.

    Fundamental US/NATO policy is to have Turkey as a bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War. Turkey was sort of like US/NATO's version of Cuba for Russia during the Cold War, but with a better and bigger military. Turkey hosted nukes aimed at Russia during the Cold War. Erdogan is too independent and won't play along, and US/NATO want Turkey back in this role to confront Russia. US/NATO also don't want a German-Turkish axis to arise that would dominate Europe and the Near East. Kemalist or Gulenist Turkey also makes Turkish accession into the EU more likely.

    So one's views on the coup depends on one's views on these matters, rather than on "Islamism".

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Neoconned, @Bill

    Thanks for providing the Erdogan perspective. But of course it depends on Islamism. BTW thank you for your use of quotes because it demonstrates your perfidy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don't think it's something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Bill, @L Woods

    , @Bill
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Islamism is a shiny object. It flashes when you need distracting.

  42. Daily Mail seems already decide on which side they are:

    Title “coup to depose Islamist government ” – so Erdogan is officially islamist, right?

    Will this man be remembered like the hero of Tiananmen Square

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692870/Turkey-brink-Civil-War-Mobs-defiant-civilians-face-military-tanks-soldiers-seize-control-streets-coup.html

    or will he exemplify crazy suicidal mob of Islamists?

  43. @Das
    Well, it looks like the coup failed.

    The President and Secretary of State wouldn't endorse a government which had actually been deposed.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Are you sure?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692693/Turkish-military-launch-attempted-coup-depose-government.html

    Or are you just another outlet for the disgusting New York Times?

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Yeah, Erdogan looks finished. Wait and see.

  44. @everyday feminist
    As the news was breaking I walked over to my Turkish colleague's desk--he was listening on his iPhone to Turkish media--and he said point blank that it was Gulen's guys. According to him Erdogan cleaned house a couple years ago but still about 1/4-1/3 of the army is pro-Gulen, including the Turkish equivalent of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (I think I impressed him with my iSteve-derived knowledge of Gulen because he was prepared to give a long backstory.)

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    That’s something I’m finding difficult — “pro-Gulen” — and ~33% of the Turkish military feels this way?

    …what’s this guy’s draw? It’s like he’s Kane from the Brotherhood of Nod.

    • Replies: @everyday feminist
    @BenKenobi

    I can't claim to be an expert in byzantine Turkish politics (my, ahem, Dagestani colleague also in the conversation agreed with your assessment... iSteve really does prepare you everything!), I'm just relaying that from my n=1 observation, the Turk-on-the-street thinks it's Gulen at this point.

  45. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for providing the Erdogan perspective. But of course it depends on Islamism. BTW thank you for your use of quotes because it demonstrates your perfidy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    I guess I just can’t bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don’t think it’s something worth risking war with Russia over.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    I guess I just can’t bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don’t think it’s something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Seconded by the other Anonymous in this thread.

    , @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    Everything, and I mean everything, always comes down to sex and money.

    , @Bill
    @Anonymous

    The alt right's fear of headscarves particularly and female modesty generally is demented and ahistorical. It's mind-blowing, really, that someone who considers themselves on the right thinks that the fact that Muslim women wear headscarves and Western women don't counts in favor of the West. So, it's not that headscarves aren't worth fighting over, it's that we're on the wrong side.

    As an anonymous says, Islam has at least a partial solution to how the Satanic monster that is modernity can be resisted. We should be learning from it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @L Woods
    @Anonymous

    My reflex is to sympathize with the vestiges of Kemalism (which I can see as something of a model for the U.S. in certain respects), but upon reflection I have to agree. To emulate the West is to emulate depravity and decay at this point in history.

  46. @Jefferson
    @countenance

    "Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school."

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    Replies: @Lot, @Neoconned, @NOTA

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    • Replies: @FX Enderby
    @Lot

    This why we so, so desperately NEED a hugely expanded guest worker program to address our shortage of unskilled mestizo stoop labor.

    Go Mike Pence!

    , @Neoconned
    @Lot

    I noticed that when I was in L.A. last week.

    Lots of help wanted signs at restaurants and service industry crap.

    What they don't mention is that now that a lot of those Mexicans and Central Americans are quasi legalized and freeloading off welfare or now that they've moved on to gravy jobs nobody's there to do the service work. Asians don't need those jobs and Mexicans are apparently t9 lazy

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Anonymous
    @Lot


    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

     

    Oh no! Where is the world going? Perhaps Steve will have to save some money by not buying as many of those red plastic cups in order to pay a Mexican to do the job Steve won't do :-)
  47. @Jefferson
    @SPMoore8

    "Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don’t Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries."

    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?

    Replies: @Lot, @SPMoore8

    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?

    There are a lot of Italians in Western and Central PA, KY, and WV compared to the Midwest or South, but fewer than on the East Coast. Commonly they came to work in coal mines and steel mills.

  48. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hepp
    @Anonymous

    I tend to agree. The Muslim world should have their own culture and governments that reflect the values of the people. Forced secularization has not worked, either in the West or the Middle East.

    Secularism isn't going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Why do we want to “beat Islamism” again?

    What you slur as “terrorism” is merely the war tactic of an outgunned people fighting to defend their lands from Western invasion. We started this violence. We can end it by leaving them in peace.

    –same Anonymous

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Anonymous

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels. That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn't have much popular support without American bombing.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    , @Warner
    @Anonymous

    "their lands"

    How can it be "their lands" when there were no Muslims when it was "our lands."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @biz
    @Anonymous

    Bullshit. 'We' didn't 'start' this violence. Islam has been violently attacking the West and expanding via conquest, colonizing, raping, and killing all along the way, ever since its earliest days.

    If your 'we' refers to America, America's first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America's existence.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Cryptogenic

  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don't think it's something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Bill, @L Woods

    I guess I just can’t bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don’t think it’s something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Seconded by the other Anonymous in this thread.

  50. It seems the coup attempt is led by junior officers, the captain and major level, with perhaps a few colonels. This seems far more dangerous than a few general officers, reflecting widespread despair with the current government.

    Turkey lives in a dangerous neighborhood. Russia still has ambitions regarding Constantinople, Putin recently met with some Greek Orthodox patriarch with claims to Constantinople, IIRC. Turkey faces threats now from ISIS, given recent bombings by ISIS inside Turkey; as well as an exploding Kurdish insurgency that had been pacified by political deals. Meanwhile Turkey has lost access to the Iraqi market which despite the violence had been lucrative.

    Motive? Maybe Gulenist, more likely despair about an Islamist Erdogan picking up too many enemies and not having a clue regarding the danger, if Putin wanted to seize Constantinople, he could. The ISIS threat while not existential could provoke Putin to intervene, and Russia has historically had claims on Eastern Turkey.

    FWIW the successful coups in Africa seem to be led by people like Flight Lt. Jerry Rawlings, or Staff Sgt. Samuel K. Doe; often over pay and conditions as much as anything else. A coup attempt led by JUNIOR officers would be a shocking change from a general staff led coup.

    • Replies: @mts1
    @Whiskey

    If Putin/Russia seized Constantinople, what could they expect to do with it, practically? They then would occupy a muslim mega city of 15 million who may prove to be nearly impossible to boss around, even by a super power. Now you have your long sought-after warm water port, occupied by hostiles who everyone from China to Dar al Islam to NATO would be agitating. The Turks purged the Christians out of town 4 generations ago when it was half Orthodox - it's not like you can even suggest pushing out the muslim half of the residents and letting the remaining Christian half run the place anymore. Russia would have to take all of European and half of Asia Minor Turkey to make Constantinople workable, and who sees then doing that now? I'm looking for a win here, not a pyrrhic victory. Putin does not make pyrrhic moves, or any move that does not seem a sure win ahead of time. And he knows how to cut bait when needed.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

  51. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Das

    Are you sure?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692693/Turkish-military-launch-attempted-coup-depose-government.html

    Or are you just another outlet for the disgusting New York Times?

    Replies: @BB753

    Yeah, Erdogan looks finished. Wait and see.

  52. “Turkey: soldiers block a bridge in Istanbul lit in honour of victims of Nice

    https://twitter.com/B3zero/status/754063772004720640

    Gunfire on civilians at the same bridge just a few hours later:

    https://twitter.com/Third_Position/status/754103002403713024

  53. The line from Alexander Dugin:

    http://katehon.com/node/34944

    A coup attempt has taken place in Turkey

    At this moment the fate of the country is being decided. A military group occupied the state television building where they transmitted message of seizing power. According to the military, they are holding hostage commander-in-chief and the government was also arrested. Earlier, Prime Minister of Turkey Binali Yildirim made a statement that the attempt of the rebellion has failed

    In a Skype, which was broadcast on the air of CNN Turk, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused the supporters of Islamist leader Fetullaha Gülen in the organization of the coup. Fetullaha Gülen is residing in the United States, and cooperating with US intelligence agencies. Erdogan urged people to go out to the streets and prevent the coup. Where is Erdogan himself is currently unknown. Meanwhile, military helicopters attacked the presidential quarter in Ankara. In Ankara and Istanbul and other major cities, people go out to the streets, trying to stop the military vehicles.

    However, judging by the tanks in all cities of the country the Coup has the potential to end in the military’s victory. While not reported exactly who led the coup. Military answered that they intend to restore democratic rights and freedoms. Open the liberal rhetoric of evidence in favor of the coup Atlanticist orientation..

    The military coup has obvious geopolitical implications. It comes after a sharp reversal in the direction of Turkey and Russia changes on the Syrian issue the country’s leadership position. On the eve of Binali Yildirim said that Turkey intends to restore relations with official Damascus. In essence, this would mean a radical change of the whole geopolitical situation on the Syrian issue and the collapse of the US strategy in the region. Before that Erdogan removed from the country’s leadership of Ahmet Davutoglu, who set the US. Seeing that Erdogan went on to change geopolitical course, the United States decided to go for broke and use their networks of influence in military circles, to initiate a coup.

    We should expect reprisals against both the opposition, in favor of strengthening ties with Russia and Syria, as well as functionaries of the ruling party “Justice and Development”. The pro-Russian course will be frozen.

    • Replies: @jimbojones
    @Akira

    Interesting. Who knows, maybe Dugin is right. "Byzantine" is the word that comes to mind here.

  54. @Jefferson
    @SPMoore8

    "Beyond that the area is typical Whiteland: lots of American, Confederate, Don’t Tread on Me flags, also in various combinations, as well as gun stores in gas stations, furniture stores, and even bakeries."

    Are there a lot of Italians in this part of Pennsylvania?

    Replies: @Lot, @SPMoore8

    As a matter of fact, yes; that town that Malcolm Gladwell wrote about is just a few miles away, Roseto, home of the famous Roseto effect (briefly, almost no heart attacks.) Demo composition: PA Dutch (naturally), plus Welsh, Cornish, Italian for the slate pits (slate mining used to be big there, hence the alternate name “Slate Belt”), plus some Slovaks (for some reason) and I have heard some mostly assimilated Slovak Romany. Asians, AA’s, Latinos all uncommon.

  55. Damn, the first bit of good news all week turns out to be a dud.
    I was hoping we’d see Erdogan’s head on a pike.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Fidelios Automata

    Damn, the first bit of good news all week turns out to be a dud.
    I was hoping we’d see Erdogan’s head on a pike.


    Why? He appears to be loyal to the Turkish people.

    , @Simon in London
    @Fidelios Automata

    Given that the coup was launched immediately after news that Erdogan was backing off from hostility to Russia (and maybe even Syria), and that the Erdoganists are CIA backed, a successful coup by pro-US elements might well have made things even worse. There's some hope that a strong Erdogan might actually move things back towards stability and away from CIA/US State Dept policy of state destruction & chaos.

  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    By the way, the FBI was aggressively raiding Gulen charter schools across America in 2014, looking to document how the cult skims money from local American taxpayers to finance their operations, but I haven’t heard much about it recently. My assumption would be that the CIA explained to the FBI that having local property taxpayers ripped off for a few hundred million per year is a cheap way to have a potential player in the Great Game of “Who Controls Constantinople?” (But I’m making that up, so don’t take my word for it.)

    Sailer is hinting that this Gulenist coup is CIA-backed, or has the CIA’s blessing, correct?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

  57. FWIW the successful coups in Africa seem to be led by people like Flight Lt. Jerry Rawlings, or Staff Sgt. Samuel K. Doe; often over pay and conditions as much as anything else. A coup attempt led by JUNIOR officers would be a shocking change from a general staff led coup.

    Someone here recently asserted that it’s usually field-level officers who lead coups, because the upper ranks are full of political types who don’t lead men, and tend to be regime picks. It does at least fit the fact that many military/faux military dictators take on middle rank titles, like Col Quadaffy.

    It would also make sense for upper level officers sympathetic with or involved in a coup to work through proxies.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    @Svigor

    Re field-grade officers: Lieutenant Colonel seems to have been a critical rank in the Arab world. That was Qaddaffy's rank when he took power. He never promoted himself after that. Nasser was also a Lt. Colonel when he was part of the group that overthrew the Egyptian monarchy in 1962. Al-Assad was a Lt. Colonel in 1963 when he participted in a successful coup and was soon promoted to commander of the Syrian Air Force.

    Replies: @Anon

  58. @Anonymous

    By the way, the FBI was aggressively raiding Gulen charter schools across America in 2014, looking to document how the cult skims money from local American taxpayers to finance their operations, but I haven’t heard much about it recently. My assumption would be that the CIA explained to the FBI that having local property taxpayers ripped off for a few hundred million per year is a cheap way to have a potential player in the Great Game of “Who Controls Constantinople?” (But I’m making that up, so don’t take my word for it.)
     
    Sailer is hinting that this Gulenist coup is CIA-backed, or has the CIA's blessing, correct?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Do we even know that Gulen’s operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what’s currently going on in Turkey.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @Steve Sailer

    Stratfor says yes:

    https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/why-turkish-coup-will-likely-fail?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Don't feel bad, neither does anybody else on this thread.

    , @Federalist
    @Steve Sailer

    YOU have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey?! Then there's no hope for anyone else to understand.

    , @Lot
    @Steve Sailer

    I think the old secularist guard has been so fully jailed and persecuted that if they had the means for a coup, they would have moved years ago.

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Steve Sailer


    I have no idea what’s currently going on in Turkey.
     
    Byzantine intrigue continues to live up to its reputation. Always intriguing, always Byzantine.

    Some speculate that the coup is a charade, staged by Erdogan himself. You say, "... the way Erdogan aligned with Gulen to take down the military around 2012 and then Erdogan aligned with the military to take down Gulen around 2014..." So, it's plausible. Or a plausible conspiracy. Or plausibly conspiracist. Or something.

    These guys and their moves can make your head spin.

    It is also worth noting that the Turks long history of and excellence at this kind of machination is what has give rise to the default mindset in the entire Islamic world. That is, they think that conspiracy theories, and only conspiracy theories, can adequately explain human affairs.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/opinion/21iht-edcohen21.html?_r=0

  59. @Cryptogenic
    Reading iSteve preps you for absolutely anything.

    Replies: @Kylie, @gruff, @Broski

    Except cleaning the garage.

  60. Where is Erdogan himself is currently unknown.

    There might be a rental opening up soon in Saylorsburg, if Reciecup needs a place to crash.

  61. @Wilkey
    Wahoo! Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That's more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can't even begin to imagine the refugee mess.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Louis Renault, @Bill

    That was my first deep state thought when I saw all those guys with five o’clock shadows and gold chains in the squares… How many more DJs and bouncers does Germany need?

  62. @Anonymous
    @Hepp

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Why do we want to "beat Islamism" again?

    What you slur as "terrorism" is merely the war tactic of an outgunned people fighting to defend their lands from Western invasion. We started this violence. We can end it by leaving them in peace.

    --same Anonymous

    Replies: @Hepp, @Warner, @biz

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels. That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn’t have much popular support without American bombing.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hepp

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels.

    I don't think we can justifiably draw such a conclusion until we remove the variable of Western invasion, bombing, occupation, and ethnic cleansing (in Palestine) of their homelands.

    That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn’t have much popular support without American bombing.

    Violent interference in their homelands I take it is the contemplated means to defeat this as yet unquantified and probably minimal (see my preceding sentence) "craziness." Yet doing so by your admission strengthens it (increases support), and it also gives rise to reasonable, justifiable violent retaliation on the part of non-crazy, non-nihilist Muslims. In view of the above, I am not persuaded we should do anything at all to "defeat" them.

    , @Bill
    @Hepp

    Sure, but the nihilist faction has been funded by our bestest friends in the Middle East throughout the postwar period. Whether that faction would be of any importance at all without the monstrosities we maintain in power in the gulf states is pretty questionable.

  63. @Fidelios Automata
    Damn, the first bit of good news all week turns out to be a dud.
    I was hoping we'd see Erdogan's head on a pike.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Simon in London

    Damn, the first bit of good news all week turns out to be a dud.
    I was hoping we’d see Erdogan’s head on a pike.

    Why? He appears to be loyal to the Turkish people.

  64. is the UK Sky News live feed. Covering Turkey tonite.

  65. @Anonymous
    @Hepp

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Why do we want to "beat Islamism" again?

    What you slur as "terrorism" is merely the war tactic of an outgunned people fighting to defend their lands from Western invasion. We started this violence. We can end it by leaving them in peace.

    --same Anonymous

    Replies: @Hepp, @Warner, @biz

    “their lands”

    How can it be “their lands” when there were no Muslims when it was “our lands.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Warner

    How can it be “their lands” when there were no Muslims when it was “our lands.”

    Because North Africa, Palestine, Arabia, Somalia, Iran, and Afghanistan belong to them. Our lands are in Europe, North America, and Oceania.

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Anoni

  66. A Turkish protestor tried to re-enact the Tinanmen Square act of passive resistance against a tank and just got crushed. The video is out there but I won’t link to it. It looks like it’s outside an airport terminal.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Cagey Beast

    I saw it on Liveleak. You can see the bodily fluids splurt out. It's like if you took packets of ketchup, mustard, and tartar sauce and squished them with your palm against the table.

  67. Steve, at this rate, you should just give in, drive to Home Depot and pick up a couple of illegals, or you’re never gonna get your garage cleaned out.

  68. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman or the apocalypse"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

  69. @Akira
    The line from Alexander Dugin:

    http://katehon.com/node/34944

    A coup attempt has taken place in Turkey

    At this moment the fate of the country is being decided. A military group occupied the state television building where they transmitted message of seizing power. According to the military, they are holding hostage commander-in-chief and the government was also arrested. Earlier, Prime Minister of Turkey Binali Yildirim made a statement that the attempt of the rebellion has failed

    In a Skype, which was broadcast on the air of CNN Turk, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused the supporters of Islamist leader Fetullaha Gülen in the organization of the coup. Fetullaha Gülen is residing in the United States, and cooperating with US intelligence agencies. Erdogan urged people to go out to the streets and prevent the coup. Where is Erdogan himself is currently unknown. Meanwhile, military helicopters attacked the presidential quarter in Ankara. In Ankara and Istanbul and other major cities, people go out to the streets, trying to stop the military vehicles.

    However, judging by the tanks in all cities of the country the Coup has the potential to end in the military's victory. While not reported exactly who led the coup. Military answered that they intend to restore democratic rights and freedoms. Open the liberal rhetoric of evidence in favor of the coup Atlanticist orientation..

    The military coup has obvious geopolitical implications. It comes after a sharp reversal in the direction of Turkey and Russia changes on the Syrian issue the country’s leadership position. On the eve of Binali Yildirim said that Turkey intends to restore relations with official Damascus. In essence, this would mean a radical change of the whole geopolitical situation on the Syrian issue and the collapse of the US strategy in the region. Before that Erdogan removed from the country’s leadership of Ahmet Davutoglu, who set the US. Seeing that Erdogan went on to change geopolitical course, the United States decided to go for broke and use their networks of influence in military circles, to initiate a coup.

    We should expect reprisals against both the opposition, in favor of strengthening ties with Russia and Syria, as well as functionaries of the ruling party “Justice and Development”. The pro-Russian course will be frozen.

    Replies: @jimbojones

    Interesting. Who knows, maybe Dugin is right. “Byzantine” is the word that comes to mind here.

  70. Al Arabiya is reporting a statement from Gulen denouncing the coup and military meddling in domestic politics

  71. @Lot
    @Jefferson


    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.
     
    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    Replies: @FX Enderby, @Neoconned, @Anonymous

    This why we so, so desperately NEED a hugely expanded guest worker program to address our shortage of unskilled mestizo stoop labor.

    Go Mike Pence!

  72. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Rise

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    Replies: @countenance, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @Anonym, @Jim Christian

    Perhaps somebody would like to apply to be Mr. Sailer’s intern or apprentice?
    If he’s going to keep reviewing and approving all the comments himself, maybe there are some chores he wouldn’t mind delegating?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    Ha, ha very funny! No, I believe he will always remain a ''Corporation of One, '' as it is optimal: Lone entrepreneur/employee/assistant = perfection. At least, this was told to me by a Wharton School of Economics professor.

    I'm sure his wife feeds him, does the laundry, and keeps the household running. I still want them to go to my cabin in the wilderness; anytime they can - and, travel through Iceland, or better yet (considering jet-lag) go to Iceland on the way back to California! Iceland is wonderful in August.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  73. @Cromwellforever
    @anon

    The militarists/Kemalists. In Turkey being a snooty, coastal blue stater who likes booze is associated with loving the military.

    Replies: @EdwardM

    It’s an interesting dynamic. Unfortunately the cosmopolitans will always be outvoted by the crazy Muslims, as well as heartland middle class types who co-opt them, hence democracy will always be a disaster for the country.

    Pakistan has a similar dynamic. Any Paki that I have ever met longs for the Musharraf days. Egypt too. And Thailand, where communist Buddhists substitute for communist Muslims.

    Iran was probably the same before the revolution. The MSM loves to talk about the educated, worldly Iranians who are yearning to be free of sharia, but they only talk to people in Tehran coffee bars and exiled elites. That country has the government it deserves.

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

    Don’t feel bad, neither does anybody else on this thread.

  75. • Replies: @yowza
    @Jefferson

    Quick Turkey Primer courtesy of The War Nerd:

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4979793/1/

  76. OT: any sailerites in Cleveland for the convention? Let’s find a way to get in touch if so

  77. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

    YOU have no idea what’s currently going on in Turkey?! Then there’s no hope for anyone else to understand.

  78. @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    Both neocons and the State Dept./CIA hate Erdogan and want the military or someone else in charge. Erdogan is too independent and a populist. Gulen is a State/CIA asset and favorite. The military is also very pro-Israel.

    Fundamental US/NATO policy is to have Turkey as a bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War. Turkey was sort of like US/NATO's version of Cuba for Russia during the Cold War, but with a better and bigger military. Turkey hosted nukes aimed at Russia during the Cold War. Erdogan is too independent and won't play along, and US/NATO want Turkey back in this role to confront Russia. US/NATO also don't want a German-Turkish axis to arise that would dominate Europe and the Near East. Kemalist or Gulenist Turkey also makes Turkish accession into the EU more likely.

    So one's views on the coup depends on one's views on these matters, rather than on "Islamism".

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Neoconned, @Bill

    I find the fears of a German/alliance interesting.

    So this is an Anglo/Franco/Yank attempt to stop a reversion to the old WW1 order?

  79. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Gives new meaning to “Camel Back Mountain” in the Poconos.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @War for Blair Mountain

    I dunno about that, but if the give Brokeback mountain the same sort of Ghostbusters reboot, that could be interesting.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

  80. @BenKenobi
    @everyday feminist

    That's something I'm finding difficult -- "pro-Gulen" -- and ~33% of the Turkish military feels this way?

    ...what's this guy's draw? It's like he's Kane from the Brotherhood of Nod.

    Replies: @everyday feminist

    I can’t claim to be an expert in byzantine Turkish politics (my, ahem, Dagestani colleague also in the conversation agreed with your assessment… iSteve really does prepare you everything!), I’m just relaying that from my n=1 observation, the Turk-on-the-street thinks it’s Gulen at this point.

  81. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hepp
    @Anonymous

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels. That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn't have much popular support without American bombing.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels.

    I don’t think we can justifiably draw such a conclusion until we remove the variable of Western invasion, bombing, occupation, and ethnic cleansing (in Palestine) of their homelands.

    That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn’t have much popular support without American bombing.

    Violent interference in their homelands I take it is the contemplated means to defeat this as yet unquantified and probably minimal (see my preceding sentence) “craziness.” Yet doing so by your admission strengthens it (increases support), and it also gives rise to reasonable, justifiable violent retaliation on the part of non-crazy, non-nihilist Muslims. In view of the above, I am not persuaded we should do anything at all to “defeat” them.

  82. The word on the street is that the coup has failed. Some of the coup leaders have turned themselves in, but other military units are continuing to fight because they haven’t received orders to stand down.

    • Replies: @Louis Renault
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Coup leaders who give up? Who the hell does that? If so it sounds like a false flag coup with plenty of fireworks and the only casualties those opposed to Islamist who will be duly rounded up and given a fair trial over the weekend.

  83. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    My hat off to you, Steve Sailer. You've been talking about Turkey for years.

    How does the government ignore such a resource. Oh yea. Well, regardless, well done, sir.

    Replies: @Josh

    He just happened to go there once. Pay attention. On the other hand, if this turns out to be cool, everyone to whom I ever mentioned gulen will think me pretty smart, so thanks for that, Steve.

  84. @Lot
    @Jefferson


    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.
     
    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    Replies: @FX Enderby, @Neoconned, @Anonymous

    I noticed that when I was in L.A. last week.

    Lots of help wanted signs at restaurants and service industry crap.

    What they don’t mention is that now that a lot of those Mexicans and Central Americans are quasi legalized and freeloading off welfare or now that they’ve moved on to gravy jobs nobody’s there to do the service work. Asians don’t need those jobs and Mexicans are apparently t9 lazy

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Neoconned

    "now that a lot of those Mexicans and Central Americans are quasi legalized and freeloading off welfare or now that they’ve moved on to gravy jobs nobody’s there to do the service work. "

    In other words, it's about time you invited a few million new ones.

  85. @Warner
    @Anonymous

    "their lands"

    How can it be "their lands" when there were no Muslims when it was "our lands."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    How can it be “their lands” when there were no Muslims when it was “our lands.”

    Because North Africa, Palestine, Arabia, Somalia, Iran, and Afghanistan belong to them. Our lands are in Europe, North America, and Oceania.

    • Replies: @Louis Renault
    @Anonymous

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the "religion of peace"? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anoni
    @Anonymous

    Constantinople is always and eternally Christian. It will never be their lands. And of course there were Greeks on the coasts and the black sea until last century, and lots of Armenians as well. It is only the weakness of the West that allows Constantinople to remain under Muslim occupation.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

  86. Across the land, dust motes go on waiting in undusted garages. Someone should really do something about that.

  87. @Cagey Beast
    A Turkish protestor tried to re-enact the Tinanmen Square act of passive resistance against a tank and just got crushed. The video is out there but I won't link to it. It looks like it's outside an airport terminal.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I saw it on Liveleak. You can see the bodily fluids splurt out. It’s like if you took packets of ketchup, mustard, and tartar sauce and squished them with your palm against the table.

  88. @Jefferson
    @countenance

    "Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school."

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    Replies: @Lot, @Neoconned, @NOTA

    There was a Catholic documentary called “Demographic Winter” I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It’s now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don’t buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Neoconned

    This is a troll post.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. = good times.

    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @gruff
    @Neoconned

    Let's hope so.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward.

     

    Is that a way of saying wages are going to increase? You also forgot to mention that the real-estate profits are going to crash.

    Rising wages, falling housing prices. The future looks bleak for big business.

    Replies: @gruff

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Japanese style stagnation and deflation

     



    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com
    Why Is Deflation Bad?
    ...
    when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow

     

    Deflation is bad, mmkay.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @guest, @Neoconned

  89. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    @Jefferson


    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.
     
    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    Replies: @FX Enderby, @Neoconned, @Anonymous

    Unskilled illegals still cost $10-15 an hour in Southern California. The labor market here is current very tight, causing wages to rise pretty quickly.

    Oh no! Where is the world going? Perhaps Steve will have to save some money by not buying as many of those red plastic cups in order to pay a Mexican to do the job Steve won’t do 🙂

  90. For the first few hours after the coup was launched, NATO and US leaders were silent. That’s very strange.

    My guess is that the US govt, CIA, NATO, and Gulen jointly acted together to instigate the coup. They kept silent initially to see if the coup was succeeding. When it was clear that the coup was failing, only then did they take a stand against it.

    • Replies: @pink_point
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Well,

    this coup attempt comes in the wake of the airport bombing some days ago...
    which came in the wake of Erdogan shifting his focus on compromise and co-operation with Russia amd Syria.

    , @Paul Jolliffe
    @JohnnyWalker123

    JW123,

    Where did you see the source that our reactions were strangely silent for a few hours? I'm not disputing this, but I haven't seen that. If it is true, then I'd say your guess is probably right.

    I have not seen Hilary's reaction - I bet if our Deep State was involved, she would have been consulted, or at least informed, in advance. The trigger would have been the about-face on Turkey's relations with Syria and Assad's regime. Hilary's policy was to remove Assad. So, if Erdogan was no longer on board, he had to go. And go right away.

    I'll make a prediction - either Erdogan reverses course, or he doesn't last the year. A secularist "lone-nut" will take out "ReeceCup", leaving the Prime Minister puppet in charge.

  91. Most creative theory so far: Erdogan created this coup himself to get and excuse to get more power. Cui bono!

    If the coup had happened just 5 days from now it would have been the anniversary of the most famous failed coup of all time.

    • Replies: @mobi
    @anony-mouse


    Most creative theory so far: Erdogan created this coup himself to get and excuse to get more power. Cui bono!

    If the coup had happened just 5 days from now it would have been the anniversary of the most famous failed coup of all time.
     
    Erdogan tells Reuters he 'plans to clean up the army'.

    Coup within a coup?

    Byzantine!
    , @Hibernian
    @anony-mouse

    The Beer Hall Putsch ?

    Replies: @5371

  92. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The Gulen Compound is within easy walking distance of the Adirondack Trail. Areas such as the Pocono Mountains and The Ramapo Mountains in NJ are the last remaining living spaces for the Northeast Black Bear population away from Northeast suburban sprawl.

    Last year are Hindu-South Asian Rutgers student went on a Nature Hike on the Ramapo Mountain section of the Adirondack trail. Took out his iPhone and to photograph the nice 800 hundred pund male Black Bear who charged him moments later and killed.him…..and then ate him for lunch. Go Google the photo of the 800 pound Black Bear moments before Smokey the Bear had his lunchtime meal.

  93. Let’s get to the real news of the day: the Trump-Pence logo!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/donald-trump-mike-pence-campaign-logo/index.html

    (It is pretty bad though…)

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @everyday feminist

    I dunno...design-wise, it's very pre-columbian. I have some very old pottery with those sinuous, yet primitive branch/arms/talons/serpent-like graphics.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

    , @Bill
    @everyday feminist

    Reminds me of the Double Tree logo, if you know what I mean. Firing Lewandowski is not turning out well for Trump so far.

  94. If you don’t want Turkey in the EU, you want it to be more Islamist than Kemalist. The US had been strongly promoting the inclusion of Turkey into the EU until Erdogan and his Islamist direction.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    If you don’t want Turkey in the EU, you want it to be more Islamist than Kemalist. The US had been strongly promoting the inclusion of Turkey into the EU until Erdogan and his Islamist direction.

    Strongly agree. Also, Islam provides the Turkish people with an immune defense against globalist atomization and exploitation.

    We all really need to stop treating Islam as an enemy. The obsession is probably the biggest perceptual error in the Alt Right.

    --The other Anonymous in this thread

  95. @Wilkey
    Wahoo! Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That's more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can't even begin to imagine the refugee mess.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Louis Renault, @Bill

    15 million hungry mouths to feed. Nine meals away from a different kind of riot.

  96. @Svigor

    FWIW the successful coups in Africa seem to be led by people like Flight Lt. Jerry Rawlings, or Staff Sgt. Samuel K. Doe; often over pay and conditions as much as anything else. A coup attempt led by JUNIOR officers would be a shocking change from a general staff led coup.
     
    Someone here recently asserted that it's usually field-level officers who lead coups, because the upper ranks are full of political types who don't lead men, and tend to be regime picks. It does at least fit the fact that many military/faux military dictators take on middle rank titles, like Col Quadaffy.

    It would also make sense for upper level officers sympathetic with or involved in a coup to work through proxies.

    Replies: @PV van der Byl

    Re field-grade officers: Lieutenant Colonel seems to have been a critical rank in the Arab world. That was Qaddaffy’s rank when he took power. He never promoted himself after that. Nasser was also a Lt. Colonel when he was part of the group that overthrew the Egyptian monarchy in 1962. Al-Assad was a Lt. Colonel in 1963 when he participted in a successful coup and was soon promoted to commander of the Syrian Air Force.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @PV van der Byl

    Lt. Colonels in the US tend to be staffers whose job is to handle logistics. A mastery of logistics is vital if you want to stage a coup.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @PV van der Byl, @Hibernian

  97. @Anonymous
    @Warner

    How can it be “their lands” when there were no Muslims when it was “our lands.”

    Because North Africa, Palestine, Arabia, Somalia, Iran, and Afghanistan belong to them. Our lands are in Europe, North America, and Oceania.

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Anoni

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the “religion of peace”? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Louis Renault

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the “religion of peace”? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    The Romans were sojourners.

    Replies: @biz

  98. @JohnnyWalker123
    The word on the street is that the coup has failed. Some of the coup leaders have turned themselves in, but other military units are continuing to fight because they haven't received orders to stand down.

    Replies: @Louis Renault

    Coup leaders who give up? Who the hell does that? If so it sounds like a false flag coup with plenty of fireworks and the only casualties those opposed to Islamist who will be duly rounded up and given a fair trial over the weekend.

  99. The coup-ers made a couple mistakes. They should have killed Erdogan, and they should not have told people to stay indoors.

    People like street protests, and telling people to stay indoors while Erdogan tells them to leave means people assume mass gatherings are all against the coup.

    • Replies: @Lugash
    @Lot

    The Turkish army should have had non-lethal measures like teargas. Once the people surrounded and by passed the tanks they were useless.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

    I think the old secularist guard has been so fully jailed and persecuted that if they had the means for a coup, they would have moved years ago.

  101. @Lot
    The coup-ers made a couple mistakes. They should have killed Erdogan, and they should not have told people to stay indoors.

    People like street protests, and telling people to stay indoors while Erdogan tells them to leave means people assume mass gatherings are all against the coup.

    Replies: @Lugash

    The Turkish army should have had non-lethal measures like teargas. Once the people surrounded and by passed the tanks they were useless.

  102. @Tex
    Andalou News is calling the rebels "Feto" which is apparently a reference to Gulen, and not Greek cheese.

    https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/754090445471350784

    I find the whole charter school-military coup connection troubling.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer

    Gullen’s first name is Fethullah, so it stand for Fethullahist Terrorist Organization.

    But he’s not a terrorist here. He’s milking another gift Bill Clinton left behind: The New Market Tax Credit (NMTC). “Invest” in a charter school and get a 39% tax credit! Hence the philanthropic rush to fund them. Combined with the Immigration Act of 1990 creating EB-5 visas in which you “invest $1mil and get the whole family in. (From an alternet article in 2015.)

    Then there are the federal grants. Arne Duncan, on the very day the scum bag stepped down gave $249mil in grants to charters. No one seems to know exactly who is doing all this education and immigration business. Maybe this covers the CIA’s bills as I’m sure they’re doing similar scams on every nation they want to over throw or think they might need to overthrow, so a quarter billion is just pocket money.

    I find the connections troubling, too. This and what looks similarly troubling in the refugee resettlement industry.

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    If you don't want Turkey in the EU, you want it to be more Islamist than Kemalist. The US had been strongly promoting the inclusion of Turkey into the EU until Erdogan and his Islamist direction.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    If you don’t want Turkey in the EU, you want it to be more Islamist than Kemalist. The US had been strongly promoting the inclusion of Turkey into the EU until Erdogan and his Islamist direction.

    Strongly agree. Also, Islam provides the Turkish people with an immune defense against globalist atomization and exploitation.

    We all really need to stop treating Islam as an enemy. The obsession is probably the biggest perceptual error in the Alt Right.

    –The other Anonymous in this thread

    • Agree: Bill
  104. @Louis Renault
    @Anonymous

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the "religion of peace"? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the “religion of peace”? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    The Romans were sojourners.

    • Replies: @biz
    @Anonymous

    There were no Arabs or Muslims in those lands for an infinite amount of time before the Romans, and for 500 years after the Romans.

    There is really no such thing as a place where Arabs or Muslims are indigenous. Almost nowhere is "their" land. It was all conquered and colonized.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  105. @everyday feminist
    Let's get to the real news of the day: the Trump-Pence logo!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/donald-trump-mike-pence-campaign-logo/index.html

    (It is pretty bad though...)

    Replies: @Lagertha, @Bill

    I dunno…design-wise, it’s very pre-columbian. I have some very old pottery with those sinuous, yet primitive branch/arms/talons/serpent-like graphics.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lagertha


    design-wise, it’s very pre-columbian
     
    Indeed - vague yet clear enough, the flag. Could have been better - too much white space is wasted on both sides. But the suggestion that Hillary's Fedex logo is a stroke of genius while this one is abomination is definitely false.

    Logos and company names don't have as much influence as designers want you to believe. It's all mostly a matter of familiarity. The logo's fine.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    , @Lagertha
    @Lagertha

    ha, ha, haa...before I go to sleep: The logo does seem like an eye test with Trump & Pence stacked!
    I am forced to find my reading glasses at every moment these days - it sucks to be in your 50's!, and, this eye-test idea just popped into my head.

  106. @Tex
    Strangely related, but there may have been a coup in the Brexit movement that nobody noticed until now.

    "Lord Wolfson, chief executive of Next, said: "Any move to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands would be very dangerous for the economy."

    It sounds, at first, like a curious thing for a Leave voter to say."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36796212

    Replies: @gruff

    Look how fast his eyes blink. Lying weasel.

  107. @Anonymous
    @Warner

    How can it be “their lands” when there were no Muslims when it was “our lands.”

    Because North Africa, Palestine, Arabia, Somalia, Iran, and Afghanistan belong to them. Our lands are in Europe, North America, and Oceania.

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Anoni

    Constantinople is always and eternally Christian. It will never be their lands. And of course there were Greeks on the coasts and the black sea until last century, and lots of Armenians as well. It is only the weakness of the West that allows Constantinople to remain under Muslim occupation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anoni

    There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.

    Replies: @biz, @Pericles

    , @Anonymous
    @Anoni

    Genetically, the Turks are basically the same Anatolians that have been living there for millenia.

    Rivalry and antagonism between the West and Anatolia have always existed and predate when the Anatolians started speaking Turkish and adopted Islam. Do you think everything was hunky dory when they were Greek speaking Byzantines instead? Western Crusaders sacked Byzantium and saw them as heretics.

    Replies: @Pericles

  108. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps somebody would like to apply to be Mr. Sailer's intern or apprentice?
    If he's going to keep reviewing and approving all the comments himself, maybe there are some chores he wouldn't mind delegating?

    Replies: @Lagertha

    Ha, ha very funny! No, I believe he will always remain a ”Corporation of One, ” as it is optimal: Lone entrepreneur/employee/assistant = perfection. At least, this was told to me by a Wharton School of Economics professor.

    I’m sure his wife feeds him, does the laundry, and keeps the household running. I still want them to go to my cabin in the wilderness; anytime they can – and, travel through Iceland, or better yet (considering jet-lag) go to Iceland on the way back to California! Iceland is wonderful in August.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Lagertha

    While you guys can clean Big Steve's garage and wash his Rolls, I'd like to play a round of golf with the Sailer. A fair measure in peacetime, you discover quite a lot about a fella in the journey around a golf course. About their honor, their discipline, their humor, their taste in cigars and bourbon.

    That has value.

  109. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Do we even know that Gulen's operation was involved at all? Erdogan says they were, so I used that as an excuse to flog my old article. But I have no idea what's currently going on in Turkey.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous, @Federalist, @Lot, @PiltdownMan

    I have no idea what’s currently going on in Turkey.

    Byzantine intrigue continues to live up to its reputation. Always intriguing, always Byzantine.

    Some speculate that the coup is a charade, staged by Erdogan himself. You say, “… the way Erdogan aligned with Gulen to take down the military around 2012 and then Erdogan aligned with the military to take down Gulen around 2014…” So, it’s plausible. Or a plausible conspiracy. Or plausibly conspiracist. Or something.

    These guys and their moves can make your head spin.

    It is also worth noting that the Turks long history of and excellence at this kind of machination is what has give rise to the default mindset in the entire Islamic world. That is, they think that conspiracy theories, and only conspiracy theories, can adequately explain human affairs.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/opinion/21iht-edcohen21.html?_r=0

  110. Steve, have you seen any of the tank videos? You see people getting steamrolled and splattered on the pavement like puss-filled human zits.

  111. @Cryptogenic
    Reading iSteve preps you for absolutely anything.

    Replies: @Kylie, @gruff, @Broski

    Steve’s overarching message is this: Pay Attention.

  112. OT: Sam Harris spends several minutes talking about the ethics of HBD research (!) in a new interview with Dave Rubin (20:00 to around 26:00)

  113. @Neoconned
    @Jefferson

    There was a Catholic documentary called "Demographic Winter" I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It's now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don't buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. ...

    Replies: @bomag, @gruff, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    This is a troll post.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. = good times.

    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @bomag


    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.
     

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let 'em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @utu, @Neoconned, @PapayaSF

  114. @anony-mouse
    Most creative theory so far: Erdogan created this coup himself to get and excuse to get more power. Cui bono!

    If the coup had happened just 5 days from now it would have been the anniversary of the most famous failed coup of all time.

    Replies: @mobi, @Hibernian

    Most creative theory so far: Erdogan created this coup himself to get and excuse to get more power. Cui bono!

    If the coup had happened just 5 days from now it would have been the anniversary of the most famous failed coup of all time.

    Erdogan tells Reuters he ‘plans to clean up the army’.

    Coup within a coup?

    Byzantine!

  115. Hillary Clinton urges ‘calm and respect for laws!’.

  116. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha
    @everyday feminist

    I dunno...design-wise, it's very pre-columbian. I have some very old pottery with those sinuous, yet primitive branch/arms/talons/serpent-like graphics.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

    design-wise, it’s very pre-columbian

    Indeed – vague yet clear enough, the flag. Could have been better – too much white space is wasted on both sides. But the suggestion that Hillary’s Fedex logo is a stroke of genius while this one is abomination is definitely false.

    Logos and company names don’t have as much influence as designers want you to believe. It’s all mostly a matter of familiarity. The logo’s fine.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    Hillary's logo always makes me think of airports when I am in a hurry/late.
    Airports are also, uncomfortable spaces for probably, many, not just me these days! Ha, ha!

  117. @Jefferson
    @countenance

    "Hire some kid to do it, preferably one that attends a Gulen charter school."

    Steve lives in The San Fernando Valley, so he should hire a Mexican or Central American Illegal Immigrant to clean out his garage. He or she will do it for only $20 bucks.

    Replies: @Lot, @Neoconned, @NOTA

    Garages are rotting in the fields, due to the latest immigration crackdown.

  118. Perhaps what occurred in Turkey is similar to the 1820 Rebellion in Scotland (aka the Radical War), where government agents had actively fomented the unrest to bring radicals into the open.

  119. @Anonymous
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don't think it's something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Bill, @L Woods

    Everything, and I mean everything, always comes down to sex and money.

  120. @Steve Sailer
    @utu

    Erdogan also patched things up with Israel in the last few weeks.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    I guess Erdogan got to clean his garage today, like the Brits did in Scotland in 1820.

  121. @Anonymous
    @Lagertha


    design-wise, it’s very pre-columbian
     
    Indeed - vague yet clear enough, the flag. Could have been better - too much white space is wasted on both sides. But the suggestion that Hillary's Fedex logo is a stroke of genius while this one is abomination is definitely false.

    Logos and company names don't have as much influence as designers want you to believe. It's all mostly a matter of familiarity. The logo's fine.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    Hillary’s logo always makes me think of airports when I am in a hurry/late.
    Airports are also, uncomfortable spaces for probably, many, not just me these days! Ha, ha!

  122. @Anoni
    @Anonymous

    Constantinople is always and eternally Christian. It will never be their lands. And of course there were Greeks on the coasts and the black sea until last century, and lots of Armenians as well. It is only the weakness of the West that allows Constantinople to remain under Muslim occupation.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.

    • Replies: @biz
    @Anonymous

    Yes, because the majority Greek and Armenian population was ethnically cleansed from there. In 1900 Constantinopole had a Christian majority, to say nothing of 1500.

    Why are you such an apologist for Islamic colonialism and conquest??

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Pericles
    @Anonymous

    And in a hundred years, there might be no Islamic presence in Constantinople.

    MICA - Make Istanbul Constantinople Again.

  123. @wren
    Everything is so Byzantine these days.

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/13/new-ties-emerge-between-clinton-and-mysterious-islamic-cleric/

    Replies: @Anon

    That Hillary, helping stage a coup before she’s even in office. I think she just wants another notch on her broomstick.

  124. @bomag
    @Neoconned

    This is a troll post.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. = good times.

    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let ’em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @PiltdownMan

    According to my brother and my sons, Japan is still the master race. During some serious scheisse going on this week in US, France again, Turkey, South Sudan, Zika Olympics jitters...Japan goes full Pokemon. And, my "little boys" ran around the towns/states they're living in, to catch these childhood fuzzy friends - ok, it was just my youngest!

    "Who's got the power? A Heart So True - Our Courage Will Pulls Us Through...Gotta Catch 'Em All."

    Seriously, Sailer Squad, look into the Pokemon songs/Wiki stuff to understand that Japan knew what the "slow and locally-sourced" fad was before all of us Rubes. And, they know what young people want...every time, since the late 80's. Go Speed Racer.

    Replies: @yowza

    , @utu
    @PiltdownMan

    "But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let ‘em all in" - Money is a debt and somebody must pay interest on the money created as debt.

    , @Neoconned
    @PiltdownMan

    That's an interesting way of putting it but Japan is luckier than most nations in that they've been able to play off the USA as a market at the expense of our own employment. Look at Toyota and Honda.....

    I think most Japs are fatalistic like me.

    They understand J M Keynes famous quote "in the end we're all dead anyway."

    I think the Japanese are honorable to the end. They'd rather enjoy their lifestyle now and go out with a bang knowing Japan will be relegated to a third class nation in a few years.....

    I want to go down eiththem - but they're sacrificing future growth for more Keynesian flim flan of the moment.

    They know the score. We're entering a prolonged era of 1930s style beggarthy neigh or bullshit.

    I hope I die in peace long before the nuclear war that's coming happens.

    , @PapayaSF
    @PiltdownMan


    Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.
     
    It is, because Japan's Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, just like ours. It works to tax current workers to pay retired one as long as the population is growing, and the ratios are OK: say, 10-12 to 1 (10-12 workers supporting one retiree). It becomes a disaster when the ratio falls to nearly 1 to 1: in effect, each worker supporting his own retiree. And Japan is headed towards that.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @reiner Tor, @Neoconned

  125. @Lagertha
    @everyday feminist

    I dunno...design-wise, it's very pre-columbian. I have some very old pottery with those sinuous, yet primitive branch/arms/talons/serpent-like graphics.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

    ha, ha, haa…before I go to sleep: The logo does seem like an eye test with Trump & Pence stacked!
    I am forced to find my reading glasses at every moment these days – it sucks to be in your 50’s!, and, this eye-test idea just popped into my head.

  126. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anoni
    @Anonymous

    Constantinople is always and eternally Christian. It will never be their lands. And of course there were Greeks on the coasts and the black sea until last century, and lots of Armenians as well. It is only the weakness of the West that allows Constantinople to remain under Muslim occupation.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Genetically, the Turks are basically the same Anatolians that have been living there for millenia.

    Rivalry and antagonism between the West and Anatolia have always existed and predate when the Anatolians started speaking Turkish and adopted Islam. Do you think everything was hunky dory when they were Greek speaking Byzantines instead? Western Crusaders sacked Byzantium and saw them as heretics.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Anonymous

    And yet they look so different now. I wonder what a 23andme survey would tell us?

  127. @PV van der Byl
    @Svigor

    Re field-grade officers: Lieutenant Colonel seems to have been a critical rank in the Arab world. That was Qaddaffy's rank when he took power. He never promoted himself after that. Nasser was also a Lt. Colonel when he was part of the group that overthrew the Egyptian monarchy in 1962. Al-Assad was a Lt. Colonel in 1963 when he participted in a successful coup and was soon promoted to commander of the Syrian Air Force.

    Replies: @Anon

    Lt. Colonels in the US tend to be staffers whose job is to handle logistics. A mastery of logistics is vital if you want to stage a coup.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Anon

    True, Lt Col is the terminal rank for most career officers in the US. There are much fewer full Colonel positions available- about 1 for every 20 or so Lt Colonels.

    , @PV van der Byl
    @Anon

    Many LTCs are staff logistics officers. But many of those in the Army and Marine Corps are also battalion commanders, a line responsibility.

    Several flag rank soldiers have told me that battalion commander was the role they enjoyed most. A battalion is a big enough formation to be fairly "self-contained" and autonomous. Yet, still small enough that the commander knows all his officers and NCOs very well.

    , @Hibernian
    @Anon

    You're possibly confusing Lt. Colonels with Majors. Many Lt. Colonels ARE staff officers, but many others command battalions (often non-combat, support type.) Majors are almost all staff officers or XOs (deputy commanders.)

  128. @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn’t we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn’t we welcome a return to those days?

    No, and no. The "secular" army officers are an extension of the same globalist regime that we are trying to throw out of power in the United States and Europe. We should support our nationalist brothers in Turkey.

    Replies: @Hepp, @Maj. Kong

    The nationalists, MHP, aren’t in power right now. They aren’t devoted to neo-ottomanism like Islamist Erdogan is, but they are highly anti-Kurd and anti-Armenian.

    I support giving Armenia what Wilson said they were getting. And carving our a nation for the Kurds. It’s time for an end to Turkish Imperialism, and for Orthodox control of Constantinople.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Maj. Kong


    Orthodox control of Constantinople.
     
    We can dream. It's hard to see how that would work, though. There are very few Christians left in Constantinople. What would one do with the millions and millions of current residents?
  129. Der Spiegel (English article) followed Gülen movement because they have so many Turks in Germany.

    They said it was secretive, and they thought it was like a cult. Opinions seem to vary at other sources. Gülen himself is very reclusive.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/guelen-movement-accused-of-being-a-sect-a-848763.html

  130. @PiltdownMan
    @bomag


    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.
     

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let 'em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @utu, @Neoconned, @PapayaSF

    According to my brother and my sons, Japan is still the master race. During some serious scheisse going on this week in US, France again, Turkey, South Sudan, Zika Olympics jitters…Japan goes full Pokemon. And, my “little boys” ran around the towns/states they’re living in, to catch these childhood fuzzy friends – ok, it was just my youngest!

    “Who’s got the power? A Heart So True – Our Courage Will Pulls Us Through…Gotta Catch ‘Em All.”

    Seriously, Sailer Squad, look into the Pokemon songs/Wiki stuff to understand that Japan knew what the “slow and locally-sourced” fad was before all of us Rubes. And, they know what young people want…every time, since the late 80’s. Go Speed Racer.

    • Replies: @yowza
    @Lagertha


    According to my brother and my sons, Japan is still the master race. During some serious scheisse going on this week in US, France again, Turkey, South Sudan, Zika Olympics jitters…Japan goes full Pokemon. And, my “little boys” ran around the towns/states they’re living in, to catch these childhood fuzzy frie
     
    nds

    The game proves that the Japanese a race that follows rules at the expense of reality, and we have our share of aimless, pointless people here too.

    As an aside, we need to get out of Japan, and let them build their military again. Double for Germany. Wars have always been the most efficient means of world population control, as well as helping sift the wheat from the chaff, and Pokeman Go is scientific evidence that we are very overdue for a good outdoor beating of humanity's throw rug. Let's get this party started.
  131. Kaz says:

    The EU is not bashing on Greece out of spite. Greece would be a complete failed state without the EU subsidizing them.

    That aside, it’s clear that Greece cannot maintain a quality of services similar to more successful Western European nations without being subsidized. They should leave the EU and have their own currency.

    It’ll fuck things up for a while, but there the situation will never get better as is now, the Greeks just don’t have it in them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Kaz

    I agree Greeks have lived in full freeload mode by some years.
    Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary and Estonia receive €2000 or more per capita a year, too.

    Money is not given for nothing, it's given in return for infuence/obedience.

    Have you noticed who's the most afraid of Greece leaving the EU/Eurozone?
    It's not Greece, but their alleged "victims".

    , @Former Darfur
    @Kaz

    Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline. There are still a few superb Greek individuals-I know a Greek woman doctor who could have been a supermodel (except that her breasts are just a tad big) or a reasonably successful (but not Williams level) tennis pro-but the average modern Greek is a dumb-ass. The average Greek in the US is probably a little smarter than the average Greek over there, but not radically so.

    When American Greeks out-marry, they tend to marry well and have kids that are an improvement, so you have to give them credit for that. However, American Greeks are still relatively endogamous.

    This is based on a relatively limited sample size because I have never lived anywhere with a big Greek-American population. Those who do may have different observations.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Broski

  132. @JohnnyWalker123
    For the first few hours after the coup was launched, NATO and US leaders were silent. That's very strange.

    My guess is that the US govt, CIA, NATO, and Gulen jointly acted together to instigate the coup. They kept silent initially to see if the coup was succeeding. When it was clear that the coup was failing, only then did they take a stand against it.

    Replies: @pink_point, @Paul Jolliffe

    Well,

    this coup attempt comes in the wake of the airport bombing some days ago…
    which came in the wake of Erdogan shifting his focus on compromise and co-operation with Russia amd Syria.

  133. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Rise

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    Replies: @countenance, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @Anonym, @Jim Christian

    The approaching terrorism (or is that, iSteve event?) singularity means that your garage will, unfortunately, never be cleaned. Such is life.

  134. @Neoconned
    @Jefferson

    There was a Catholic documentary called "Demographic Winter" I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It's now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don't buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. ...

    Replies: @bomag, @gruff, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Let’s hope so.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @gruff

    It sounds great on paper but what will happen is that a lot of businesses will just shut down. Labor going up will be accompianed by price increases.

    So while it may look good on paper you'll basically have a bunch of unemployable retards/druggers/burnouts, etc who just won't work and who u will still support via prison costs, welfare, etc

    There will be a movement to bring Eugenics back albeit a more humane version.

    Like sterilization tied to welfare benefits.

    But the resistance to such a policy will be immense by those degenerates who want u to finance their bad habits and to clean up their mistakes.

    Mad Max we are not but it'll probably be much bleaker than what we have now.

    Replies: @gruff

  135. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kaz
    The EU is not bashing on Greece out of spite. Greece would be a complete failed state without the EU subsidizing them.

    That aside, it's clear that Greece cannot maintain a quality of services similar to more successful Western European nations without being subsidized. They should leave the EU and have their own currency.

    It'll fuck things up for a while, but there the situation will never get better as is now, the Greeks just don't have it in them.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Former Darfur

    I agree Greeks have lived in full freeload mode by some years.
    Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary and Estonia receive €2000 or more per capita a year, too.

    Money is not given for nothing, it’s given in return for infuence/obedience.

    Have you noticed who’s the most afraid of Greece leaving the EU/Eurozone?
    It’s not Greece, but their alleged “victims”.

  136. @PiltdownMan
    @bomag


    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.
     

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let 'em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @utu, @Neoconned, @PapayaSF

    “But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let ‘em all in” – Money is a debt and somebody must pay interest on the money created as debt.

  137. It’s all a cunning plan to get you back blogging again. There must be something under the pile of rubbish in your garage that the Deep State is desperate to keep hidden.

  138. I believe this ends comedically. Very roughly, this is like Californians trying to secede from the Union by pulling a coup on Jerry Brown. It’s not gonna work, for so many different reasons. One of which is life is too good there for a fucking coup.

    Here’s a vid of a lot of pissed off Turks yelling at a coupster because he damaged somebody’s Mercedes with his goddamned tank.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e30_1468641604

  139. @Lagertha
    @PiltdownMan

    According to my brother and my sons, Japan is still the master race. During some serious scheisse going on this week in US, France again, Turkey, South Sudan, Zika Olympics jitters...Japan goes full Pokemon. And, my "little boys" ran around the towns/states they're living in, to catch these childhood fuzzy friends - ok, it was just my youngest!

    "Who's got the power? A Heart So True - Our Courage Will Pulls Us Through...Gotta Catch 'Em All."

    Seriously, Sailer Squad, look into the Pokemon songs/Wiki stuff to understand that Japan knew what the "slow and locally-sourced" fad was before all of us Rubes. And, they know what young people want...every time, since the late 80's. Go Speed Racer.

    Replies: @yowza

    According to my brother and my sons, Japan is still the master race. During some serious scheisse going on this week in US, France again, Turkey, South Sudan, Zika Olympics jitters…Japan goes full Pokemon. And, my “little boys” ran around the towns/states they’re living in, to catch these childhood fuzzy frie

    nds

    The game proves that the Japanese a race that follows rules at the expense of reality, and we have our share of aimless, pointless people here too.

    As an aside, we need to get out of Japan, and let them build their military again. Double for Germany. Wars have always been the most efficient means of world population control, as well as helping sift the wheat from the chaff, and Pokeman Go is scientific evidence that we are very overdue for a good outdoor beating of humanity’s throw rug. Let’s get this party started.

  140. Will the Gulen schools stay open? Am I the only one worried about this?

  141. @gruff
    @Neoconned

    Let's hope so.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    It sounds great on paper but what will happen is that a lot of businesses will just shut down. Labor going up will be accompianed by price increases.

    So while it may look good on paper you’ll basically have a bunch of unemployable retards/druggers/burnouts, etc who just won’t work and who u will still support via prison costs, welfare, etc

    There will be a movement to bring Eugenics back albeit a more humane version.

    Like sterilization tied to welfare benefits.

    But the resistance to such a policy will be immense by those degenerates who want u to finance their bad habits and to clean up their mistakes.

    Mad Max we are not but it’ll probably be much bleaker than what we have now.

    • Replies: @gruff
    @Neoconned

    A shakeout is going to come one way or another.

  142. @Neoconned
    @Jefferson

    There was a Catholic documentary called "Demographic Winter" I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It's now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don't buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. ...

    Replies: @bomag, @gruff, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward.

    Is that a way of saying wages are going to increase? You also forgot to mention that the real-estate profits are going to crash.

    Rising wages, falling housing prices. The future looks bleak for big business.

    • Agree: gruff, This Is Our Home
    • Replies: @gruff
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    “It may appear to be the interest of the rulers, and the rich of a state, to force population [growth], and thereby lower the price of labour, and consequently the expense of fleets and armies, and the cost of manufactures for foreign sale; but every attempt of the kind should be carefully watched and strenuously resisted by the friends of the poor, particularly when it comes under the deceitful garb of benevolence, and is likely, on that account, to be cheerfully and cordially received by the common people.” – Thomas Malthus

  143. @Neoconned
    @Jefferson

    There was a Catholic documentary called "Demographic Winter" I saw a few years ago on the Catholic channel.

    One of the demographers who they interviewed was shaking scared talking about how even the Mexican birth relate had collapsed. It's now at replacement level.

    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward. They say robots will replace a lot of ppl but I don't buy it. I think labor will get real expensive and well just have more Japanese style stagnation and deflation. ...

    Replies: @bomag, @gruff, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Japanese style stagnation and deflation

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com
    Why Is Deflation Bad?

    when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow

    Deflation is bad, mmkay.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    The Japanese are astonishingly poor at exporting to the US on an individual level. There is a healthy demand here for a number of Japanese domestic market items that take a lot of work for an American to buy, and because the only real players are usually American-born Japanese, margins can be high.

    Good examples include Japanese made transformers for vacuum tube amplifiers, Japanese made guitars with American names made under license for the domestic market (Fender Japan, Gibson's Orville), and-although the Fast and Furious crowd has seen an expansion in recent years-Japanese used car engines and transmissions and Japanese made aftermarket parts for japanese cars.

    The Japanese in Japan are totally nonentrepreneurial at pursuing these markets. They simply are not interested in the money: round eye want one, he can get on JAL jet, is their thinking.

    Replies: @PV van der Byl

    , @guest
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Everybody knows price deflation isn't bad in itself, for instance they like it when shiny, new Apple gizmos get cheaper. But somehow they can never apply this to the economy as a whole. Because if we don't have economic growth and inflation bankers aren't getting enough of a cut, and that just can't happen.

    , @Neoconned
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Oh I agree but with all the white trash druggers and other assorted third world "chaff" you'll be paying for via welfare, prison, law enforcement expenses, etc. Don't be shocked if states start restricting interstate movement of citizens or travelling - the court's and the constitution be damned.

    The decentralized nature of the U.S. power structure is good for the divide and conquer elites - but it's also their downfall because it has the tendency to promote secession and regionalism when things go bad.

    Rents falling is good longer term but wages will stagnate not rise - business will just wilt away.

    A few ppl will see wage hikes but most will simply be unemployable and a burden on the taxpayer.

    In the Long run this is economy healing itself but in the meantime there's a lot of deflation and suffering - and our politicians and money winks are too greedy and stupid to use the Keynesian tools the Japanese used to keep their pplemployed

  144. @Cryptogenic
    Reading iSteve preps you for absolutely anything.

    Replies: @Kylie, @gruff, @Broski

    I still haven’t figured out how to make any money off all this esoteric knowledge.

    • Replies: @yowza
    @Broski


    I still haven’t figured out how to make any money off all this esoteric knowledge.
     
    That's easy. Renounce your citizenship, move to New Zealand, and get your real estate license, and profit! Thanks to what you read on isteve, New Zealand is the #1 white flight destination for well to do boomers.
  145. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US “launch codes”. That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don’t need the codes to make quite a mess…

    List of states with nuclear weapons:

    “…the United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey to deploy and store. This involves pilots and other staff of the “non-nuclear” NATO states practicing, handling, and delivering the U.S. nuclear bombs, and adapting non-U.S. warplanes to deliver U.S. nuclear bombs. However, since all U.S. nuclear weapons are protected with Permissive Action Links, the host states cannot arm the bombs without authorization codes from the U.S. Department of Defense…”

    Turkish Air Force:

    “…A total of 90 B61 nuclear bombs are hosted at the Incirlik Air Base, 40 of which are allocated for use by the Turkish Air Force in case of a nuclear conflict, but their use requires the approval of NATO…”

    • Replies: @yowza
    @anonymous


    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US “launch codes”. That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don’t need the codes to make quite a mess…
     
    I thought the "Missles of October" thing was Kruschev intimidating Kennedy into getting rid of our nukes in Turkey, back in the day, and Kenndy had fully complied, as demanded by Kroschev.

    Since they were fully removed back then, I'm not aware of any event or context that would have allowed us to put them back without a lot of soviet squawking. Did I miss something?

    Replies: @Discordiax

    , @Former Darfur
    @anonymous

    Any nuke can be cooked off or fizzle-yielded by crude methods and will make a huge mess, but that's equally true of hospital or structural testing radiation sources.

    The current US nukes are very well fitted for "surety". Anyone outside Amarillo trying to dismantle a physics package on most of them is probably going to kill themselves and make a big mess.....unless they have inside information, and that means they would have to have multiple penetration of our nuclear weapons design establishment, since it is quite well compartmentalized. And getting the weapon to detonate at rated yield, or anywhere remotely close, by hotwiring it is probably equally a nonstarter.

    That having been said: I know for a fact, from personal observation and meeting these people, that at least one of the key nuclear facilities (to wit, Kansas City's Honeywell FM&T, formerly Bendix, "the bomb plant") in the US has a fair number of naturalized US citizens from dozens of countries including Vietnam, Turkey, Germany, Russia, and China, and also some first generation offspring of immigrants from same. I don't know if Pantex has those, but I know they have a very substantial population of Mexican-Americans, some of whom are first gen or naturalized...so certainly for the former Soviet Union, planting a "No Way Out" mole would not have been beyond the realm of possibility: getting an adolescent Russian redocumented as a Mexican citizen of, say, German, Polish or Czech ancestry could have been done.

    Having one would be somewhat useful: having say two or three in the right positions could potentially give the opposing force largely total access, or at least sufficient that certain systems could be compromised.

    I'm guessing that the same is true in reverse: there certainly are ex-Soviets with nuclear weapons experience in the US today, I've never met one (or at least one who would admit to it) but the laws of probability are pretty good. I have met ex-Soviet and WarPac pilots, submariners and so forth. Our weapons people surely have learned much from this resource, although it's doubtful in the extreme that the Soviet/Russian nuclear weapons apparat has much to teach us in terms of bomb design: knowing how to render safe a Russian nuke and perhaps how to dismantle one for materials recovery would still be good skills to have. There are an order of magnitude more unaccounted for Soviet nukes than there are US ones in various places: for one thing, they lost a lot more submarines.

  146. @Neoconned
    @gruff

    It sounds great on paper but what will happen is that a lot of businesses will just shut down. Labor going up will be accompianed by price increases.

    So while it may look good on paper you'll basically have a bunch of unemployable retards/druggers/burnouts, etc who just won't work and who u will still support via prison costs, welfare, etc

    There will be a movement to bring Eugenics back albeit a more humane version.

    Like sterilization tied to welfare benefits.

    But the resistance to such a policy will be immense by those degenerates who want u to finance their bad habits and to clean up their mistakes.

    Mad Max we are not but it'll probably be much bleaker than what we have now.

    Replies: @gruff

    A shakeout is going to come one way or another.

  147. I think Russia wanted influence over there since the time of the czars and this desire was thwarted and stopped by Britain. To me it seems best to let Russia have a free hand over there. Make some order out of chaos.

  148. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting paragraph:

    Permissive Action Link

    “…In order to protect its NATO allies, the United States had stationed various nuclear weapons overseas; these weapons were thus at least under the partial control of the hosting allied state. This was especially concerning to Congress, as this lack of control was in violation of federal law. Added to this was the fact that some of the allies were considered potentially unstable—particularly West Germany and Turkey. There was considerable concern that in one of these countries the instructions of the civilian leadership of the host country could overrule the military.”

  149. LATEST: Gülenists donated heavily to Hillary Clinton (latest news): http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/13/new-ties-emerge-between-clinton-and-mysterious-islamic-cleric/

    A Turkish TV segment about Gülen’s vast and fortified residence in the Poconos:

  150. @Kaz
    The EU is not bashing on Greece out of spite. Greece would be a complete failed state without the EU subsidizing them.

    That aside, it's clear that Greece cannot maintain a quality of services similar to more successful Western European nations without being subsidized. They should leave the EU and have their own currency.

    It'll fuck things up for a while, but there the situation will never get better as is now, the Greeks just don't have it in them.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Former Darfur

    Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline. There are still a few superb Greek individuals-I know a Greek woman doctor who could have been a supermodel (except that her breasts are just a tad big) or a reasonably successful (but not Williams level) tennis pro-but the average modern Greek is a dumb-ass. The average Greek in the US is probably a little smarter than the average Greek over there, but not radically so.

    When American Greeks out-marry, they tend to marry well and have kids that are an improvement, so you have to give them credit for that. However, American Greeks are still relatively endogamous.

    This is based on a relatively limited sample size because I have never lived anywhere with a big Greek-American population. Those who do may have different observations.

    • Disagree: Romanian
    • Replies: @IHTG
    @Former Darfur

    Cool story bro.

    , @Broski
    @Former Darfur

    I question whether it was dysgenic breeding (low IQ members out reproducing high IQ members, as in the West since the advent of widespread welfare) so much as dysgenic mixing with other groups. Sicilians, Portuguese, and Greeks all used to be roughly as white as, say, Parisians. That they darkened to an olive tone after the advent of Muhammad's conquest philosophy cum religion is not a coincidence.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

  151. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Clearly, the real reason the US has to declare war on ISIS is we have to store 100 nuclear weapons about 300 miles from the ISIS capital for some reason related to the politics of the overall situation… ?

    “America’s Nuclear Weapons in Europe Are the Nuclear Elephant in the Room”, William M. Arkin, Vice News, March 31, 2016:

    “…The nuclear weapons still deployed in southeast Turkey, about 300 miles from the Islamic State capital of Raqqa, Syria, are an absurd anachronism, and according to Kristensen, millions of dollars are now being spent to improve the security of the US-Turkish airbase at Incirlik.”

    Though maybe not enough $ to keep the airbase/bombs secure from the Turkish air force…

    I wonder whose side the Turkish pilots at Incirlik are on and what their relationship is right now with the US AF people there? Funny how fast and how large things can change, like with the Iranian air force / USAF relations (which were really tight before the Iranian revolution, then a year later US military personnel are dying in the Iranian desert).

  152. Judging from the mess in Ankara, it appears that the Turkish army officer corps is not required to read Edward Luttwak’s “Coup d’Etat.”

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    @Twinkie

    A superb book! It should be required reading for all iSteve readers. I'm still amazed that Luttwak was just 26 when he wrote it.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @PV van der Byl
    @Twinkie

    I just came across this:

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/16/why-turkeys-coup-detat-failed-erdogan/

  153. @Jefferson
    https://youtu.be/-ooV6e7b5d4

    Replies: @yowza

    Quick Turkey Primer courtesy of The War Nerd:

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4979793/1/

  154. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Labor is going to become an expensive commodity going forward.

     

    Is that a way of saying wages are going to increase? You also forgot to mention that the real-estate profits are going to crash.

    Rising wages, falling housing prices. The future looks bleak for big business.

    Replies: @gruff

    “It may appear to be the interest of the rulers, and the rich of a state, to force population [growth], and thereby lower the price of labour, and consequently the expense of fleets and armies, and the cost of manufactures for foreign sale; but every attempt of the kind should be carefully watched and strenuously resisted by the friends of the poor, particularly when it comes under the deceitful garb of benevolence, and is likely, on that account, to be cheerfully and cordially received by the common people.” – Thomas Malthus

  155. @PiltdownMan
    @bomag


    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.
     

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let 'em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @utu, @Neoconned, @PapayaSF

    That’s an interesting way of putting it but Japan is luckier than most nations in that they’ve been able to play off the USA as a market at the expense of our own employment. Look at Toyota and Honda…..

    I think most Japs are fatalistic like me.

    They understand J M Keynes famous quote “in the end we’re all dead anyway.”

    I think the Japanese are honorable to the end. They’d rather enjoy their lifestyle now and go out with a bang knowing Japan will be relegated to a third class nation in a few years…..

    I want to go down eiththem – but they’re sacrificing future growth for more Keynesian flim flan of the moment.

    They know the score. We’re entering a prolonged era of 1930s style beggarthy neigh or bullshit.

    I hope I die in peace long before the nuclear war that’s coming happens.

    • Agree: JL
  156. @anonymous
    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US "launch codes". That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don't need the codes to make quite a mess...

    List of states with nuclear weapons:


    "...the United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey to deploy and store. This involves pilots and other staff of the "non-nuclear" NATO states practicing, handling, and delivering the U.S. nuclear bombs, and adapting non-U.S. warplanes to deliver U.S. nuclear bombs. However, since all U.S. nuclear weapons are protected with Permissive Action Links, the host states cannot arm the bombs without authorization codes from the U.S. Department of Defense..."

     

    Turkish Air Force:


    "...A total of 90 B61 nuclear bombs are hosted at the Incirlik Air Base, 40 of which are allocated for use by the Turkish Air Force in case of a nuclear conflict, but their use requires the approval of NATO..."

     

    Replies: @yowza, @Former Darfur

    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US “launch codes”. That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don’t need the codes to make quite a mess…

    I thought the “Missles of October” thing was Kruschev intimidating Kennedy into getting rid of our nukes in Turkey, back in the day, and Kenndy had fully complied, as demanded by Kroschev.

    Since they were fully removed back then, I’m not aware of any event or context that would have allowed us to put them back without a lot of soviet squawking. Did I miss something?

    • Replies: @Discordiax
    @yowza

    What we pulled out of Turkey in the Cuban Missile Crisis deal were nuclear missiles. The bombs at Incirclik (sp) are air-dropped (or maybe now guided?) bombs.

  157. @anonymous
    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US "launch codes". That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don't need the codes to make quite a mess...

    List of states with nuclear weapons:


    "...the United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey to deploy and store. This involves pilots and other staff of the "non-nuclear" NATO states practicing, handling, and delivering the U.S. nuclear bombs, and adapting non-U.S. warplanes to deliver U.S. nuclear bombs. However, since all U.S. nuclear weapons are protected with Permissive Action Links, the host states cannot arm the bombs without authorization codes from the U.S. Department of Defense..."

     

    Turkish Air Force:


    "...A total of 90 B61 nuclear bombs are hosted at the Incirlik Air Base, 40 of which are allocated for use by the Turkish Air Force in case of a nuclear conflict, but their use requires the approval of NATO..."

     

    Replies: @yowza, @Former Darfur

    Any nuke can be cooked off or fizzle-yielded by crude methods and will make a huge mess, but that’s equally true of hospital or structural testing radiation sources.

    The current US nukes are very well fitted for “surety”. Anyone outside Amarillo trying to dismantle a physics package on most of them is probably going to kill themselves and make a big mess…..unless they have inside information, and that means they would have to have multiple penetration of our nuclear weapons design establishment, since it is quite well compartmentalized. And getting the weapon to detonate at rated yield, or anywhere remotely close, by hotwiring it is probably equally a nonstarter.

    That having been said: I know for a fact, from personal observation and meeting these people, that at least one of the key nuclear facilities (to wit, Kansas City’s Honeywell FM&T, formerly Bendix, “the bomb plant”) in the US has a fair number of naturalized US citizens from dozens of countries including Vietnam, Turkey, Germany, Russia, and China, and also some first generation offspring of immigrants from same. I don’t know if Pantex has those, but I know they have a very substantial population of Mexican-Americans, some of whom are first gen or naturalized…so certainly for the former Soviet Union, planting a “No Way Out” mole would not have been beyond the realm of possibility: getting an adolescent Russian redocumented as a Mexican citizen of, say, German, Polish or Czech ancestry could have been done.

    Having one would be somewhat useful: having say two or three in the right positions could potentially give the opposing force largely total access, or at least sufficient that certain systems could be compromised.

    I’m guessing that the same is true in reverse: there certainly are ex-Soviets with nuclear weapons experience in the US today, I’ve never met one (or at least one who would admit to it) but the laws of probability are pretty good. I have met ex-Soviet and WarPac pilots, submariners and so forth. Our weapons people surely have learned much from this resource, although it’s doubtful in the extreme that the Soviet/Russian nuclear weapons apparat has much to teach us in terms of bomb design: knowing how to render safe a Russian nuke and perhaps how to dismantle one for materials recovery would still be good skills to have. There are an order of magnitude more unaccounted for Soviet nukes than there are US ones in various places: for one thing, they lost a lot more submarines.

  158. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Gives new meaning to "Camel Back Mountain" in the Poconos.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I dunno about that, but if the give Brokeback mountain the same sort of Ghostbusters reboot, that could be interesting.

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @The most deplorable one

    Camel Back Mountain is one of the mountains used for skiing. I almost became quadraplegic learning how to ski there.


    Not too long ago, homes were inexpensive and taxes were low in the Poconos. These days, the White Natives have to compete with the Ottoman Empire for living and breeding space.

  159. @Broski
    @Cryptogenic

    I still haven't figured out how to make any money off all this esoteric knowledge.

    Replies: @yowza

    I still haven’t figured out how to make any money off all this esoteric knowledge.

    That’s easy. Renounce your citizenship, move to New Zealand, and get your real estate license, and profit! Thanks to what you read on isteve, New Zealand is the #1 white flight destination for well to do boomers.

    • Agree: Broski
  160. @Anonymous
    @Anoni

    There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.

    Replies: @biz, @Pericles

    Yes, because the majority Greek and Armenian population was ethnically cleansed from there. In 1900 Constantinopole had a Christian majority, to say nothing of 1500.

    Why are you such an apologist for Islamic colonialism and conquest??

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @biz

    You've never heard of Lawrence of Arabia? The Western powers in conflict with the Ottoman Empire didn't just stir up the Greeks and Armenians to revolt. They also stirred up the Arabs and even promoted Jihadism among them to get them to revolt against their Ottoman rulers.

  161. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Japanese style stagnation and deflation

     



    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com
    Why Is Deflation Bad?
    ...
    when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow

     

    Deflation is bad, mmkay.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @guest, @Neoconned

    The Japanese are astonishingly poor at exporting to the US on an individual level. There is a healthy demand here for a number of Japanese domestic market items that take a lot of work for an American to buy, and because the only real players are usually American-born Japanese, margins can be high.

    Good examples include Japanese made transformers for vacuum tube amplifiers, Japanese made guitars with American names made under license for the domestic market (Fender Japan, Gibson’s Orville), and-although the Fast and Furious crowd has seen an expansion in recent years-Japanese used car engines and transmissions and Japanese made aftermarket parts for japanese cars.

    The Japanese in Japan are totally nonentrepreneurial at pursuing these markets. They simply are not interested in the money: round eye want one, he can get on JAL jet, is their thinking.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    @Former Darfur

    It also sounds like a large number of entrepreneurial opportunities for round-eyes willing to travel to Japan to source quality components. And sell them, perhaps, via Amazon.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

  162. biz says:
    @Anonymous
    @Hepp

    Secularism isn’t going to beat Islamism, because secularists are afraid of deaths. You need religious Muslims who reject terrorism and confrontation to defeat the savages.

    Why do we want to "beat Islamism" again?

    What you slur as "terrorism" is merely the war tactic of an outgunned people fighting to defend their lands from Western invasion. We started this violence. We can end it by leaving them in peace.

    --same Anonymous

    Replies: @Hepp, @Warner, @biz

    Bullshit. ‘We’ didn’t ‘start’ this violence. Islam has been violently attacking the West and expanding via conquest, colonizing, raping, and killing all along the way, ever since its earliest days.

    If your ‘we’ refers to America, America’s first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America’s existence.

    • Replies: @Divine Right
    @biz

    "If your ‘we’ refers to America, America’s first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America’s existence."

    The US was an inspiring imperial power from the start. Less than 25 years after the US Constitution was ratified, it was already trying to conquer Canada by military force - War of 1812.

    , @Cryptogenic
    @biz

    A common argument made by liberals and Muslims is that if we had never invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, Tunisian guys in Nice wouldn't have run people over. Duh!

    If this are correct and we're just reaping what we've sown, isn't that a great reason to NOT let Muslims into your country? And I thought refugees and foreign Muslims were crucial assets without which any modern western society can't possibly hope to thrive.

    Which is it? Punishment or blessing?

    Let us recapitulate: Muslims are peaceful people who will save your economy after they are done killing you for your meddling and for not giving them jobs even though that's why you imported them in the first place, to do the jobs your own citizens refuse to do. The terrorists in western countries are the same sort of people that Muslims are fleeing from by moving to new cities where these terrorists seem to show up in again. And also, NAXALT.

    That is the sum of the leftist argument as far as I understand it.

  163. biz says:
    @Anonymous
    @Louis Renault

    The Romans were in North Africa and Palestine for centuries before the spread of Islam. What religion were they? How did they decide to join the “religion of peace”? Perhaps a plebiscite by secret ballot, no?

    The Romans were sojourners.

    Replies: @biz

    There were no Arabs or Muslims in those lands for an infinite amount of time before the Romans, and for 500 years after the Romans.

    There is really no such thing as a place where Arabs or Muslims are indigenous. Almost nowhere is “their” land. It was all conquered and colonized.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @biz

    You've never heard of the Roman emperor Philip the Arab?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Arab

  164. Yo Sails, it’s all about the Q-rating nowadays, the newbies have no idea what a “Compassionate Conservative” you are.

    BTW I think I look more Jewish than you and I have a Fro.

  165. Erdogan’s triumphant return from the airport really inspires confidence. I wonder where he was planning to flee to? Camp David, the Negev desert, Fairfax VA, Entebbe, Cairo, Brussels, Staten Island, the Poconos.

    Where would his Plan B have taken him? Possibly to S. California to clean-out some guy’s garage?

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Trelane

    I really believe Steve's writing "I Really Have to Take a Day Off to Clean Out the Garage" was a code word for Erdogan to clean out the Gulenists.

  166. @Fidelios Automata
    Damn, the first bit of good news all week turns out to be a dud.
    I was hoping we'd see Erdogan's head on a pike.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Simon in London

    Given that the coup was launched immediately after news that Erdogan was backing off from hostility to Russia (and maybe even Syria), and that the Erdoganists are CIA backed, a successful coup by pro-US elements might well have made things even worse. There’s some hope that a strong Erdogan might actually move things back towards stability and away from CIA/US State Dept policy of state destruction & chaos.

  167. @Whiskey
    It seems the coup attempt is led by junior officers, the captain and major level, with perhaps a few colonels. This seems far more dangerous than a few general officers, reflecting widespread despair with the current government.

    Turkey lives in a dangerous neighborhood. Russia still has ambitions regarding Constantinople, Putin recently met with some Greek Orthodox patriarch with claims to Constantinople, IIRC. Turkey faces threats now from ISIS, given recent bombings by ISIS inside Turkey; as well as an exploding Kurdish insurgency that had been pacified by political deals. Meanwhile Turkey has lost access to the Iraqi market which despite the violence had been lucrative.

    Motive? Maybe Gulenist, more likely despair about an Islamist Erdogan picking up too many enemies and not having a clue regarding the danger, if Putin wanted to seize Constantinople, he could. The ISIS threat while not existential could provoke Putin to intervene, and Russia has historically had claims on Eastern Turkey.

    FWIW the successful coups in Africa seem to be led by people like Flight Lt. Jerry Rawlings, or Staff Sgt. Samuel K. Doe; often over pay and conditions as much as anything else. A coup attempt led by JUNIOR officers would be a shocking change from a general staff led coup.

    Replies: @mts1

    If Putin/Russia seized Constantinople, what could they expect to do with it, practically? They then would occupy a muslim mega city of 15 million who may prove to be nearly impossible to boss around, even by a super power. Now you have your long sought-after warm water port, occupied by hostiles who everyone from China to Dar al Islam to NATO would be agitating. The Turks purged the Christians out of town 4 generations ago when it was half Orthodox – it’s not like you can even suggest pushing out the muslim half of the residents and letting the remaining Christian half run the place anymore. Russia would have to take all of European and half of Asia Minor Turkey to make Constantinople workable, and who sees then doing that now? I’m looking for a win here, not a pyrrhic victory. Putin does not make pyrrhic moves, or any move that does not seem a sure win ahead of time. And he knows how to cut bait when needed.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    @mts1

    Why does he ever need to cut bait if he only makes a move when it seems like a sure win?

    Replies: @Simon in London

  168. I’m glad that somebody had the guts to try this in Turkey; but unfortunately it probably will fail/has failed already, since the cards are stacked against them. Even if this coup attempt fails, however, it’s still much better than nothing because it keeps the Erdoganist Islamists off-balance and also lets the world know that they do NOT represent the whole of the Turkish nation.

  169. Seems like a fake coup staged by Erdogan to consolidate power.

  170. @mts1
    @Whiskey

    If Putin/Russia seized Constantinople, what could they expect to do with it, practically? They then would occupy a muslim mega city of 15 million who may prove to be nearly impossible to boss around, even by a super power. Now you have your long sought-after warm water port, occupied by hostiles who everyone from China to Dar al Islam to NATO would be agitating. The Turks purged the Christians out of town 4 generations ago when it was half Orthodox - it's not like you can even suggest pushing out the muslim half of the residents and letting the remaining Christian half run the place anymore. Russia would have to take all of European and half of Asia Minor Turkey to make Constantinople workable, and who sees then doing that now? I'm looking for a win here, not a pyrrhic victory. Putin does not make pyrrhic moves, or any move that does not seem a sure win ahead of time. And he knows how to cut bait when needed.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

    Why does he ever need to cut bait if he only makes a move when it seems like a sure win?

    • Replies: @Simon in London
    @Hhsiii

    I don't actually recall Putin 'cutting bait' - abandoning an ally, say. That's much more a US thing. Putin seems much more about not making mistaken actions in the first place. The mistakes he has made tend to be of inaction/lack of foresight, eg he seemed genuinely surprised when the USA used the distraction of the Sochi Winter Olympics to launch the coup in Ukraine. He sometimes underestimates the perfidy of his opponents, but I can't recall him making an over-reckless move then having to row back. Taking on Chechnya early on looked risky, but he seems to have made it work by his own lights with the whole Kadyrov thing.

  171. @Hhsiii
    @mts1

    Why does he ever need to cut bait if he only makes a move when it seems like a sure win?

    Replies: @Simon in London

    I don’t actually recall Putin ‘cutting bait’ – abandoning an ally, say. That’s much more a US thing. Putin seems much more about not making mistaken actions in the first place. The mistakes he has made tend to be of inaction/lack of foresight, eg he seemed genuinely surprised when the USA used the distraction of the Sochi Winter Olympics to launch the coup in Ukraine. He sometimes underestimates the perfidy of his opponents, but I can’t recall him making an over-reckless move then having to row back. Taking on Chechnya early on looked risky, but he seems to have made it work by his own lights with the whole Kadyrov thing.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  172. @Former Darfur
    @Kaz

    Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline. There are still a few superb Greek individuals-I know a Greek woman doctor who could have been a supermodel (except that her breasts are just a tad big) or a reasonably successful (but not Williams level) tennis pro-but the average modern Greek is a dumb-ass. The average Greek in the US is probably a little smarter than the average Greek over there, but not radically so.

    When American Greeks out-marry, they tend to marry well and have kids that are an improvement, so you have to give them credit for that. However, American Greeks are still relatively endogamous.

    This is based on a relatively limited sample size because I have never lived anywhere with a big Greek-American population. Those who do may have different observations.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Broski

    Cool story bro.

  173. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Rise

    No.

    Events, dear boy, events. (As British PM Harold McMillan may or may not have said in response to a question about what themes would dominate his term in office.)

    Replies: @countenance, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @Anonym, @Jim Christian

    Events, yes Steve, and then there’s the golf, The Open Championship where Phil is making his presence known. A nice distraction from the uglies of the past couple of days..

  174. @Anon
    @PV van der Byl

    Lt. Colonels in the US tend to be staffers whose job is to handle logistics. A mastery of logistics is vital if you want to stage a coup.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @PV van der Byl, @Hibernian

    True, Lt Col is the terminal rank for most career officers in the US. There are much fewer full Colonel positions available- about 1 for every 20 or so Lt Colonels.

  175. @Lagertha
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    Ha, ha very funny! No, I believe he will always remain a ''Corporation of One, '' as it is optimal: Lone entrepreneur/employee/assistant = perfection. At least, this was told to me by a Wharton School of Economics professor.

    I'm sure his wife feeds him, does the laundry, and keeps the household running. I still want them to go to my cabin in the wilderness; anytime they can - and, travel through Iceland, or better yet (considering jet-lag) go to Iceland on the way back to California! Iceland is wonderful in August.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    While you guys can clean Big Steve’s garage and wash his Rolls, I’d like to play a round of golf with the Sailer. A fair measure in peacetime, you discover quite a lot about a fella in the journey around a golf course. About their honor, their discipline, their humor, their taste in cigars and bourbon.

    That has value.

  176. @Daniel H
    How soon before Lindsay Graham and John McCain demand that the U.S. intervene militarily to restore democracy?

    Replies: @Another Canadian

    Where? At the Cleveland convention?

  177. @yowza
    @anonymous


    I may be a bit out of date, but historically the Turkish air force was provided with US nuclear bombs that required US “launch codes”. That have maybe 60-90. In the right hands you probably don’t need the codes to make quite a mess…
     
    I thought the "Missles of October" thing was Kruschev intimidating Kennedy into getting rid of our nukes in Turkey, back in the day, and Kenndy had fully complied, as demanded by Kroschev.

    Since they were fully removed back then, I'm not aware of any event or context that would have allowed us to put them back without a lot of soviet squawking. Did I miss something?

    Replies: @Discordiax

    What we pulled out of Turkey in the Cuban Missile Crisis deal were nuclear missiles. The bombs at Incirclik (sp) are air-dropped (or maybe now guided?) bombs.

  178. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @The most deplorable one
    @War for Blair Mountain

    I dunno about that, but if the give Brokeback mountain the same sort of Ghostbusters reboot, that could be interesting.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    Camel Back Mountain is one of the mountains used for skiing. I almost became quadraplegic learning how to ski there.

    Not too long ago, homes were inexpensive and taxes were low in the Poconos. These days, the White Natives have to compete with the Ottoman Empire for living and breeding space.

  179. @Anon
    @PV van der Byl

    Lt. Colonels in the US tend to be staffers whose job is to handle logistics. A mastery of logistics is vital if you want to stage a coup.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @PV van der Byl, @Hibernian

    Many LTCs are staff logistics officers. But many of those in the Army and Marine Corps are also battalion commanders, a line responsibility.

    Several flag rank soldiers have told me that battalion commander was the role they enjoyed most. A battalion is a big enough formation to be fairly “self-contained” and autonomous. Yet, still small enough that the commander knows all his officers and NCOs very well.

  180. @SteveO
    I'm sure the US government will make noises about "supporting the legitimately elected government"; they always do and don't really have a choice.

    But secretly, in our heart of hearts, in the place where we only whisper our deepest wishes and dreams, didn't we like Turkey better when it was ruled by secular army officers? Wouldn't we welcome a return to those days?

    Or are we fearful that even an internal coup against an Islamist leader will stir up the crazies? OTOH, we might figure the crazies are, well, crazy and will act up no matter what, so we might as well have the more secular guys in charge ... the guys we're used to working with.

    I must say, this is quite a refreshing bit of old-timey international news compared to what we have been dealing with lately. It's like mid-century modern international affairs.

    Speaking of which, how does Russia feel about this? Didn't Putin and Erogan not get along? Could there be Russian support for this coup? Or American support? Or, even, in a charmingly Cold War-like bit of irony, support from both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @PV van der Byl

    Erdogan blames the coup attempt on Gulenists (Islamist competitors) rather than secular Kemalists.

  181. @Twinkie
    Judging from the mess in Ankara, it appears that the Turkish army officer corps is not required to read Edward Luttwak's "Coup d'Etat."

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @PV van der Byl

    A superb book! It should be required reading for all iSteve readers. I’m still amazed that Luttwak was just 26 when he wrote it.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @PV van der Byl


    Twinkie: Judging from the mess in Ankara, it appears that the Turkish army officer corps is not required to read Edward Luttwak’s “Coup d’Etat.”

     


    PV van der Byl: A superb book! It should be required reading for all iSteve readers. I’m still amazed that Luttwak was just 26 when he wrote it.
     

    The book is, of course, copyrighted, and therefore, not free online, and so it is best to buy a copy or borrow it from your library.

    For those who are curious about its contents, here is a contemporary review by the British Marxist historian E.J. Hobsbawn, as well as some excerpts.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1969/08/21/how-to-plot-your-takeover/


    http://www.subliminal.org/news/coup.html

  182. @Former Darfur
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    The Japanese are astonishingly poor at exporting to the US on an individual level. There is a healthy demand here for a number of Japanese domestic market items that take a lot of work for an American to buy, and because the only real players are usually American-born Japanese, margins can be high.

    Good examples include Japanese made transformers for vacuum tube amplifiers, Japanese made guitars with American names made under license for the domestic market (Fender Japan, Gibson's Orville), and-although the Fast and Furious crowd has seen an expansion in recent years-Japanese used car engines and transmissions and Japanese made aftermarket parts for japanese cars.

    The Japanese in Japan are totally nonentrepreneurial at pursuing these markets. They simply are not interested in the money: round eye want one, he can get on JAL jet, is their thinking.

    Replies: @PV van der Byl

    It also sounds like a large number of entrepreneurial opportunities for round-eyes willing to travel to Japan to source quality components. And sell them, perhaps, via Amazon.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @PV van der Byl

    There is, but you have to pay a high entry cost in learning fluent and idiomatic Japanese, among other things.

  183. In my opinion Obama directed his muslim loving CIA director to take out Erdogan. Obama’s goal is to be the leader of the new Ottoman empire and Erdogan was getting too close.

  184. @Anonymous
    @SteveO

    Both neocons and the State Dept./CIA hate Erdogan and want the military or someone else in charge. Erdogan is too independent and a populist. Gulen is a State/CIA asset and favorite. The military is also very pro-Israel.

    Fundamental US/NATO policy is to have Turkey as a bulwark against Russia like it was during the Cold War. Turkey was sort of like US/NATO's version of Cuba for Russia during the Cold War, but with a better and bigger military. Turkey hosted nukes aimed at Russia during the Cold War. Erdogan is too independent and won't play along, and US/NATO want Turkey back in this role to confront Russia. US/NATO also don't want a German-Turkish axis to arise that would dominate Europe and the Near East. Kemalist or Gulenist Turkey also makes Turkish accession into the EU more likely.

    So one's views on the coup depends on one's views on these matters, rather than on "Islamism".

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Neoconned, @Bill

    Yeah. The other questions it raises are 1) why Turkey was being the US/neocon’s poodle in Syria before and 2) why it has changed its mind now. Typically, one blames the evil dictator of the week for whatever one doesn’t like in his country’s policy. In reality world, though, dictators are the heads of coalitions and not infrequently do things to service their coalition partners. That Erdogan seems to have turned, suddenly, against the neocons, provoked a coup attempt, and is now vigorously cleansing Turkish politics of (Gulenist?) judges he doesn’t like is pretty suggestive that something changed in the internal dynamics of the coalition he heads.

    I’m not sure it’s a German-Turkish axis, only, that’s in play. Putin would like there to be a German-Russian axis. His almost unbelievable restraint over the last several years has been a play to convince the Germans that he is a stable and reliable potential partner. My guess is that the US would like a German-Turkish axis a lot better than a German-Russian axis. I guess we are playing for neither, and it remains to be seen whether that is a feasible goal for us.

  185. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for providing the Erdogan perspective. But of course it depends on Islamism. BTW thank you for your use of quotes because it demonstrates your perfidy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    Islamism is a shiny object. It flashes when you need distracting.

  186. @Wilkey
    Wahoo! Turkey has 80 million people, 15 million of them in Istanbul, which is extremely close to Europe. That's more than Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. If a civil war starts in Turkey you can't even begin to imagine the refugee mess.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Louis Renault, @Bill

    It’s not important to your point, but Istanbul is in Europe.

  187. @JohnnyWalker123
    For the first few hours after the coup was launched, NATO and US leaders were silent. That's very strange.

    My guess is that the US govt, CIA, NATO, and Gulen jointly acted together to instigate the coup. They kept silent initially to see if the coup was succeeding. When it was clear that the coup was failing, only then did they take a stand against it.

    Replies: @pink_point, @Paul Jolliffe

    JW123,

    Where did you see the source that our reactions were strangely silent for a few hours? I’m not disputing this, but I haven’t seen that. If it is true, then I’d say your guess is probably right.

    I have not seen Hilary’s reaction – I bet if our Deep State was involved, she would have been consulted, or at least informed, in advance. The trigger would have been the about-face on Turkey’s relations with Syria and Assad’s regime. Hilary’s policy was to remove Assad. So, if Erdogan was no longer on board, he had to go. And go right away.

    I’ll make a prediction – either Erdogan reverses course, or he doesn’t last the year. A secularist “lone-nut” will take out “ReeceCup”, leaving the Prime Minister puppet in charge.

  188. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline.”

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @anonymous

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

  189. @Maj. Kong
    @Anonymous

    The nationalists, MHP, aren't in power right now. They aren't devoted to neo-ottomanism like Islamist Erdogan is, but they are highly anti-Kurd and anti-Armenian.

    I support giving Armenia what Wilson said they were getting. And carving our a nation for the Kurds. It's time for an end to Turkish Imperialism, and for Orthodox control of Constantinople.

    Replies: @Bill

    Orthodox control of Constantinople.

    We can dream. It’s hard to see how that would work, though. There are very few Christians left in Constantinople. What would one do with the millions and millions of current residents?

  190. @Hepp
    @Anonymous

    I pretty much agree, but there is also a nihilist faction in the Middle East that just wants to kill. ISIS theology says that they are in a permanent state of war with the infidels. That level of craziness will always be trying to push and conquer and needs to be defeated, but they wouldn't have much popular support without American bombing.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill

    Sure, but the nihilist faction has been funded by our bestest friends in the Middle East throughout the postwar period. Whether that faction would be of any importance at all without the monstrosities we maintain in power in the gulf states is pretty questionable.

  191. @everyday feminist
    Let's get to the real news of the day: the Trump-Pence logo!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/donald-trump-mike-pence-campaign-logo/index.html

    (It is pretty bad though...)

    Replies: @Lagertha, @Bill

    Reminds me of the Double Tree logo, if you know what I mean. Firing Lewandowski is not turning out well for Trump so far.

  192. @Anonymous
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don't think it's something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Bill, @L Woods

    The alt right’s fear of headscarves particularly and female modesty generally is demented and ahistorical. It’s mind-blowing, really, that someone who considers themselves on the right thinks that the fact that Muslim women wear headscarves and Western women don’t counts in favor of the West. So, it’s not that headscarves aren’t worth fighting over, it’s that we’re on the wrong side.

    As an anonymous says, Islam has at least a partial solution to how the Satanic monster that is modernity can be resisted. We should be learning from it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bill

    Women in the rich, sophisticated Turkish resort town I visited in 2009 dressed like Jackie Kennedy.

  193. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…Since they were fully removed back then, I’m not aware of any event or context that would have allowed us to put them back without a lot of soviet squawking. Did I miss something?”

    I probably should have written something like arming codes, not launch codes, which perhaps has a misleading connotation, I was just being general.

    Incirlik Air Base:

    “…Incirlik Air Base has a U.S. Air Force complement of about five thousand airmen, with several hundred airmen from the Royal Air Force and Turkish Air Force also present, as of late 2002. The primary unit stationed at Incirlik Air Base is the 39th Air Base Wing (39 ABW) of the U.S. Air Force. Incirlik Air Base has one 3,048 m (10,000 ft)-long runway, located among about 57 hardened aircraft shelters. The base is one of six NATO sites in Europe which hold tactical nuclear weapons.”

    Incirlik is in southern Turkey and might be the US airbase with the longest history of sustained combat operations (Not positive of that, I wonder if anyone really keeps track, but it seems likely.):

    Operation Northern Watch:

    “…charged with enforcing… no-fly zone… mission began on 1 January 1997…

    …Coalition aircraft flew patrols on an average of 18 days per month, and were usually fired upon. The most common threat was from anti-aircraft guns. Despite Saddam Hussein offering a $14,000 reward for downing a Coalition aircraft, no warplanes were shot down…

    …The final combat air patrol occurred on 17 March 2003 (from the Incirlik Air Base). Six weeks later the operation concluded…

    …A grand total of 36,000 sorties were flown during Operation Northern Watch, and 40,000 personnel had been deployed at some point during the operation. Operation Northern Watch was the longest combat operation in the history of the European Command.

    From the air base link, which seems to have started as a UFO base (recon balloons), heh heh:

    “…Project 119L, a public U.S. Air Force weather balloon launching program served as a cover story (misinformation) for the true objective of the Incirlik Air Base: to mount strategic reconnaissance missions over the Soviet Union….

    …began flying… U-2… reconnaissance missions… nonstop flights back and forth between Incirlik and a NATO Air Base at the Norwegian town Bodø starting in 1958…

    …reconnaissance flights operated… as far east as Afghanistan… …the main U-2 flight base in this entire region…

    …The Lebanon crisis of 1958…

    …Iraq’s 1990 invasion… controlled 140 aircraft and opened a northern front, forcing Iraq to split its defenses…

    …oversaw Operation Provide Comfort (OPC), the effort to provide humanitarian relief to millions of Kurdish refugees …”Operation Quick Transit” evacuated thousands of Kurds…

    …Operation Northern Watch (ONW)… January 1997 with the task to enforce the U.N.-sanctioned no-fly zone…

    …39th Air and Space Expeditionary Wing was activated at Incirlik AB… Incirlik’s tent city, Hodja Village, became the USAF’s largest such “temporary” facility…

    …Incirlik served as a main hub for missions in support for the war in Afghanistan…

    …Incirlik was part of what was described as the largest troop movement in U.S. history…

    …Turkish Government… begin allowing USAF UAVs and USAF combat planes to fly combat sorties against ISIL in neighboring Syria out of Incirlik Air base. Ankara formally signed a deal July 29, 2015 with the United States over the use of Turkey’s Incirlik air base in the U.S.-led coalition’s campaign against the Islamic State…

    …On 25 April 2016, the German Federal Armed Forces announced they would commit 65 million Euro to establish a permanent presence at Incirlik, as part of Germany’s commitment to the fight against ISIL.”

    Some people have probably had the thought “if only the EU could all work like this!”

  194. Turkish PM Yildirim said: “Any country that protects Fethullah Gulen will be an enemy to Turkey.” As we know from reading this blog he resides in Pennsylvania. The local authorities have cut off power at Incirlik Air Base. Maybe this weekend’s events will mark Turkey’s final decisive break from the West. Of course, being Erodogan, he might just use that threat to demand major concessions from Merkel and company with regard to EU membership.

  195. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Japanese style stagnation and deflation

     



    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com
    Why Is Deflation Bad?
    ...
    when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow

     

    Deflation is bad, mmkay.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @guest, @Neoconned

    Everybody knows price deflation isn’t bad in itself, for instance they like it when shiny, new Apple gizmos get cheaper. But somehow they can never apply this to the economy as a whole. Because if we don’t have economic growth and inflation bankers aren’t getting enough of a cut, and that just can’t happen.

  196. @Jefferson
    Europe does not need Turkey. 2 Muslim countries Bosnia and Albania is already 2 too many. We don't need any more Muslim countries to join the European continent. Turkey should stay with the MENAs.

    Replies: @gzu

    ” 2 Muslim countries Bosnia and Albania is already 2 too many. ”

    Go swallow razors.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @gzu

    "Go swallow razors."

    You first Ahmed.

  197. Turkey closed and cut power to Incirlik Air Base.

  198. Also, remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which, for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?

    Showing your ignorance of Europe, again.
    Germany spent a lot of money (tens if not hundreds of billion Euros) helping Greece. So, obviously they don’t want the Greek government keep on doing what they did up to the crisis. The few billion Euros spent on the refugee crisis were nothing in comparison.

    & they are not really inviting the Turkey into the EU, either, definitely not a Turkey under Erdogan.

    BTW, the ‘coup’ failed easily (& seemingly only very few troops were involved). Looks very much like Erdogan’s Reichstag fire.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @bossel

    Your understanding of the Eurozone's problems is lacking just as much as Merkel's understanding of it.

    , @Sean
    @bossel

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690120/Turkey-coup-claims-Erdogan-claimed-asylum-Germany-rejected-Merkel


    https://www.unz.com/mhudson/the-financial-invasion-of-greece/
    The IMF says it will not reduce Greece’s debt by a single penny. It will keep the debt in place. The problem is the way that the European central banks keep their balance sheets, if it breaks down Greece’s debt owed to the IMF then the countries Germany, France, and other countries whose banks are bailed out will have to take a loss and they refuse to lose a single penny. So the IMF has not made a creative proposal. It has repeated what it said a year ago without changing a single word. It says okay, we’re going to keep every penny of debt in place but we’re going to give you a fudging number. We’re only going to charge you 1.5% interest and you won’t have to pay the debt for 25 years. So you get a debt mark [ ] you won’t have to pay interests for 25 years and we’ll charge you only a little bit of interest.

    There’s only one kicker. You’re going to have to cancel your pensions, write them down, impose austerity, privatize your government, and you’re going to have to shrink your economy so that it will shrink by about 1, 2, 3% a year so that the 1.5% interest that we’re charging as little as it is, is going to absorb all the income growth you have. Every penny of growth of have from the next 25 years you’ll have to end up paying the German banks.

     


    & they are not really inviting the Turkey into the EU, either, definitely not a Turkey under Erdogan.
     
    Erdogan abolished the death penalty simply because the EU demanded it. "Britain has long supported Turkey under Erdogan's accession to the EU so has Germany, France and the US of course . See 14/6/16 'Britain clears path to further Turkey EU membership talks' - FT.com The same site reported earlier this year that the French president made concessions over over Turkey’s EU membership http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7527ff94-ed31-11e5-bb79-2303682345c8.

    The US wants Turkey in the EU, and Cameron the British pm until the other day has said for years he also supports Turkeys accession. Recently Cameron said it wasn't going to happen any time but that was obviously for the referendum. The essential point had been conceded and no country would object but Greece. It was coming, and still is. French banks have loaned money toitally which it has no intention of paying back and so the Paris financial establishment needs Gernany to shore up Italy. The French elite are going to press ahead with what will be sold as their cunning plan to prevent Germany dominating Europe while Merkel continues with a Kulturkampf /soft power blitzkrieg. The Germans run the EU and they want the Turks in with them, and the French establishment agree to everything!.

    Was it Greece or Turkey who fought on the side of Germany; to know that is to understand that some countries are natural enemies and must come into conflictt again and again. In WW1 Germany and Turkey faced Britain and Russia (Turkey's natural enemy). Germany ended up in a war against the Soviets and capitalist Britain in WW2. Now Germany, which is again trying to re-order Europe, has yet again discovered that Britain is a tougher nut to crack than the failed states of the continent.
  199. @anony-mouse
    Most creative theory so far: Erdogan created this coup himself to get and excuse to get more power. Cui bono!

    If the coup had happened just 5 days from now it would have been the anniversary of the most famous failed coup of all time.

    Replies: @mobi, @Hibernian

    The Beer Hall Putsch ?

    • Replies: @5371
    @Hibernian

    No, 1944. It also happened almost on the anniversary of a successful one in 1936, but that too experienced some ups and downs along the way.

  200. @Twinkie
    Judging from the mess in Ankara, it appears that the Turkish army officer corps is not required to read Edward Luttwak's "Coup d'Etat."

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @PV van der Byl

  201. @Anon
    @PV van der Byl

    Lt. Colonels in the US tend to be staffers whose job is to handle logistics. A mastery of logistics is vital if you want to stage a coup.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @PV van der Byl, @Hibernian

    You’re possibly confusing Lt. Colonels with Majors. Many Lt. Colonels ARE staff officers, but many others command battalions (often non-combat, support type.) Majors are almost all staff officers or XOs (deputy commanders.)

  202. @PiltdownMan
    @bomag


    Japanese style stagnation and deflation. …

    The Japanese live pretty well and have a nice country. We should should have some policies that bring that here.
     

    The Japanese have done a great job of trading off endless economic and population growth for a stable, high income society with life-long job security (mostly) that people can build their lives around in the ways that they have been long used to and thus helps them preserve Japanese culture and society.

    This is actually a huge accomplishment, and one that economists would do well to study closely. Instead, economic theorists in the West mostly decry Japan for not pursuing growth at all costs, and for not allowing inward labor mobility i.e. open borders immigration. Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    What really gets my goat is that neo-classical economic theory is, by now, actually quite well equipped with good analytical tools to further our understanding of all these non-orthodox choices for economic development and social choice in industrially advanced countries. But practicing economists remain stuck on the old formula. Keep total World GDP growing and let 'em all in, never mind what happens to the middle class.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @utu, @Neoconned, @PapayaSF

    Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.

    It is, because Japan’s Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, just like ours. It works to tax current workers to pay retired one as long as the population is growing, and the ratios are OK: say, 10-12 to 1 (10-12 workers supporting one retiree). It becomes a disaster when the ratio falls to nearly 1 to 1: in effect, each worker supporting his own retiree. And Japan is headed towards that.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @PapayaSF

    Three words: Soylent Green teriyaki.

    Will useless eaters make good eatin'? They will, if Weyland-Yutani gets the recipe right.

    , @reiner Tor
    @PapayaSF

    Depends on how high the pensions are. In Japan they are very low.

    Replies: @PapayaSF

    , @Neoconned
    @PapayaSF

    I use to think them printing the money would be the end of the global economy but global investors seem fine with negative rates at the moment....

  203. Interesting take on the “coup”:

  204. Turkish Attempted Coup Backgrounders: Who Is Imam Gulen and Why Is He America’s Largest Charter School Operator?

    Or in America in the first place?

  205. @Former Darfur
    @Kaz

    Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline. There are still a few superb Greek individuals-I know a Greek woman doctor who could have been a supermodel (except that her breasts are just a tad big) or a reasonably successful (but not Williams level) tennis pro-but the average modern Greek is a dumb-ass. The average Greek in the US is probably a little smarter than the average Greek over there, but not radically so.

    When American Greeks out-marry, they tend to marry well and have kids that are an improvement, so you have to give them credit for that. However, American Greeks are still relatively endogamous.

    This is based on a relatively limited sample size because I have never lived anywhere with a big Greek-American population. Those who do may have different observations.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Broski

    I question whether it was dysgenic breeding (low IQ members out reproducing high IQ members, as in the West since the advent of widespread welfare) so much as dysgenic mixing with other groups. Sicilians, Portuguese, and Greeks all used to be roughly as white as, say, Parisians. That they darkened to an olive tone after the advent of Muhammad’s conquest philosophy cum religion is not a coincidence.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Broski

    I agree that's probably a lot of it.

  206. From the comment thread on spectator.co.uk

    Kingbingo wites:

    Erdogan arranged the coup himself.

    Do we seriously believe that a coup planned for months fell apart in just a few hours, yet the following morning Erdogan identified 2,745 Judges that were involved and had them arrested.

    He even called this coup “a gift from Allah” – Tells you all.

  207. @Bill Brasky
    I think it is safe to say you called this one again, Steve. "This country can't be managed from Pennsylvania."

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/07/15/erdogan-seeks-asylum-in-germany-report.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

    Replies: @AKAHorace

    Who ever denied Erdogan asylum in Germany has blood on their hands. Now that he has crushed the coup he will execute a lot of people, western politicians will ritualistically condemn him, but how seriously can he take them ?

    The one useful thing that western asylum policy can do is to allow rulers from African and Asian countries to escape and so prevent civil war or massive purges.

  208. @Bill
    @Anonymous

    The alt right's fear of headscarves particularly and female modesty generally is demented and ahistorical. It's mind-blowing, really, that someone who considers themselves on the right thinks that the fact that Muslim women wear headscarves and Western women don't counts in favor of the West. So, it's not that headscarves aren't worth fighting over, it's that we're on the wrong side.

    As an anonymous says, Islam has at least a partial solution to how the Satanic monster that is modernity can be resisted. We should be learning from it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Women in the rich, sophisticated Turkish resort town I visited in 2009 dressed like Jackie Kennedy.

  209. The “coup” looks fake to me, it looks like elements of the Turk military were duped by their own Erdogan appointed “chain of command” with the purpose of creating a pretext to remove all the secular and minority oposition elements within the government.

    “Turks taking to the streets to disarm tanks”

    I saw small groups less than 30 people taking tanks, nothing like the “day without a Mexican” numbers or even approaching the Turk peace rallies which got blown up by radicals, I don’t even think the tanks were armed, I think the troops were deployed on legit orders.

    This “coup” is as fake as the US DOJ investigation of Fathullah Gulen coup funding investigation or Clinton Foundation donation investigations.

    BTW the are no State Dept Commications from the Erdo-Regime requesting a rebellion coup/ criminal murder conspiracy investigation into the Gulen group, and there will be no independent EU investigation into the killings of police offers and the convenient vaporization of the helicopter pilot that did it. (How did Abdul Sixpack get a missile armed chopper, and whom exactly got vaporized, and who was out that night? And who deployed the tanks, and keeps the keys?)

    In fact by Monday AM the alleged “perps” will all be disappeared and nobody in the military alive will be able to say who ordered whom to do what when, and all of Erdogans opposition and corruption and finance investigations will be disappeared along with the not mullah half of the judiciary.

    There will be No federal indictments or investigation, no extradition requests.

    One other notable observation, no women coup protestors.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Smitty

    Normally I dislike conspiracy theories, but this one might make some sense.

  210. The coup was staged and fake. This had nothing to do with Gulen which sounds like a cooked up story for popular consumption. The whole coup was so badly managed and amateurishly executed. It sounds impossible that Turkish military officers (who have a reasonable degree of competence) would do such a thing, particularly when they know that the price of failure is certain death.

    Also, have they named a single officer at the top of this coup plot? Or even a group? Who are these mysterious men who hatched this plot? How is it that we don’t have a single name? Ever heard of a coup without a single main plotter or an elite group of plotters?

    This is further confirmed by the following story: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-16/erdogans-counter-coup-begins-turkey-purges-2745-judges-prosecutors-arrests-hundreds

    This is the false flag that Erdogan needed to expand his powers and basically become dictator for life.

    Erdogan won’t just destroy the country, he will end up destroying the military. In a bizarre sort of way, this will only strengthen the power of Russia in that region as Turkey’s military cannot really act as a counterweight to Russia any more. Without NATO, they would collapse in a shooting war with the Russkies in a day.

  211. @PapayaSF
    @PiltdownMan


    Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.
     
    It is, because Japan's Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, just like ours. It works to tax current workers to pay retired one as long as the population is growing, and the ratios are OK: say, 10-12 to 1 (10-12 workers supporting one retiree). It becomes a disaster when the ratio falls to nearly 1 to 1: in effect, each worker supporting his own retiree. And Japan is headed towards that.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @reiner Tor, @Neoconned

    Three words: Soylent Green teriyaki.

    Will useless eaters make good eatin’? They will, if Weyland-Yutani gets the recipe right.

  212. @Hibernian
    @anony-mouse

    The Beer Hall Putsch ?

    Replies: @5371

    No, 1944. It also happened almost on the anniversary of a successful one in 1936, but that too experienced some ups and downs along the way.

  213. @biz
    @Anonymous

    There were no Arabs or Muslims in those lands for an infinite amount of time before the Romans, and for 500 years after the Romans.

    There is really no such thing as a place where Arabs or Muslims are indigenous. Almost nowhere is "their" land. It was all conquered and colonized.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You’ve never heard of the Roman emperor Philip the Arab?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Arab

  214. @Anonymous
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough about whether or not women in Turkey have to wear headscarves and are free to blow dozens of guys before they get married, and don't think it's something worth risking war with Russia over.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Bill, @L Woods

    My reflex is to sympathize with the vestiges of Kemalism (which I can see as something of a model for the U.S. in certain respects), but upon reflection I have to agree. To emulate the West is to emulate depravity and decay at this point in history.

  215. @biz
    @Anonymous

    Yes, because the majority Greek and Armenian population was ethnically cleansed from there. In 1900 Constantinopole had a Christian majority, to say nothing of 1500.

    Why are you such an apologist for Islamic colonialism and conquest??

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You’ve never heard of Lawrence of Arabia? The Western powers in conflict with the Ottoman Empire didn’t just stir up the Greeks and Armenians to revolt. They also stirred up the Arabs and even promoted Jihadism among them to get them to revolt against their Ottoman rulers.

  216. @bossel

    Also, remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which, for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?
     
    Showing your ignorance of Europe, again.
    Germany spent a lot of money (tens if not hundreds of billion Euros) helping Greece. So, obviously they don't want the Greek government keep on doing what they did up to the crisis. The few billion Euros spent on the refugee crisis were nothing in comparison.

    & they are not really inviting the Turkey into the EU, either, definitely not a Turkey under Erdogan.


    BTW, the 'coup' failed easily (& seemingly only very few troops were involved). Looks very much like Erdogan's Reichstag fire.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sean

    Your understanding of the Eurozone’s problems is lacking just as much as Merkel’s understanding of it.

  217. @PapayaSF
    @PiltdownMan


    Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.
     
    It is, because Japan's Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, just like ours. It works to tax current workers to pay retired one as long as the population is growing, and the ratios are OK: say, 10-12 to 1 (10-12 workers supporting one retiree). It becomes a disaster when the ratio falls to nearly 1 to 1: in effect, each worker supporting his own retiree. And Japan is headed towards that.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @reiner Tor, @Neoconned

    Depends on how high the pensions are. In Japan they are very low.

    • Replies: @PapayaSF
    @reiner Tor


    Depends on how high the pensions are. In Japan they are very low.
     
    A quick Google indicates the average payout is about $514/month. Add in bureaucratic overhead, and to me that seems like a substantial burden for each taxpayer.
  218. @Smitty
    The "coup" looks fake to me, it looks like elements of the Turk military were duped by their own Erdogan appointed "chain of command" with the purpose of creating a pretext to remove all the secular and minority oposition elements within the government.

    "Turks taking to the streets to disarm tanks"

    I saw small groups less than 30 people taking tanks, nothing like the "day without a Mexican" numbers or even approaching the Turk peace rallies which got blown up by radicals, I don't even think the tanks were armed, I think the troops were deployed on legit orders.

    This "coup" is as fake as the US DOJ investigation of Fathullah Gulen coup funding investigation or Clinton Foundation donation investigations.

    BTW the are no State Dept Commications from the Erdo-Regime requesting a rebellion coup/ criminal murder conspiracy investigation into the Gulen group, and there will be no independent EU investigation into the killings of police offers and the convenient vaporization of the helicopter pilot that did it. (How did Abdul Sixpack get a missile armed chopper, and whom exactly got vaporized, and who was out that night? And who deployed the tanks, and keeps the keys?)

    In fact by Monday AM the alleged "perps" will all be disappeared and nobody in the military alive will be able to say who ordered whom to do what when, and all of Erdogans opposition and corruption and finance investigations will be disappeared along with the not mullah half of the judiciary.

    There will be No federal indictments or investigation, no extradition requests.

    One other notable observation, no women coup protestors.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Normally I dislike conspiracy theories, but this one might make some sense.

  219. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Neoconned



    Japanese style stagnation and deflation

     



    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com
    Why Is Deflation Bad?
    ...
    when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow

     

    Deflation is bad, mmkay.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @guest, @Neoconned

    Oh I agree but with all the white trash druggers and other assorted third world “chaff” you’ll be paying for via welfare, prison, law enforcement expenses, etc. Don’t be shocked if states start restricting interstate movement of citizens or travelling – the court’s and the constitution be damned.

    The decentralized nature of the U.S. power structure is good for the divide and conquer elites – but it’s also their downfall because it has the tendency to promote secession and regionalism when things go bad.

    Rents falling is good longer term but wages will stagnate not rise – business will just wilt away.

    A few ppl will see wage hikes but most will simply be unemployable and a burden on the taxpayer.

    In the Long run this is economy healing itself but in the meantime there’s a lot of deflation and suffering – and our politicians and money winks are too greedy and stupid to use the Keynesian tools the Japanese used to keep their pplemployed

  220. @Trelane
    Erdogan's triumphant return from the airport really inspires confidence. I wonder where he was planning to flee to? Camp David, the Negev desert, Fairfax VA, Entebbe, Cairo, Brussels, Staten Island, the Poconos.

    Where would his Plan B have taken him? Possibly to S. California to clean-out some guy's garage?

    Replies: @BB753

    I really believe Steve’s writing “I Really Have to Take a Day Off to Clean Out the Garage” was a code word for Erdogan to clean out the Gulenists.

  221. @biz
    @Anonymous

    Bullshit. 'We' didn't 'start' this violence. Islam has been violently attacking the West and expanding via conquest, colonizing, raping, and killing all along the way, ever since its earliest days.

    If your 'we' refers to America, America's first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America's existence.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Cryptogenic

    “If your ‘we’ refers to America, America’s first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America’s existence.”

    The US was an inspiring imperial power from the start. Less than 25 years after the US Constitution was ratified, it was already trying to conquer Canada by military force – War of 1812.

  222. Akira says: • Website

    So before the Usual False Flaggots get started with Hollywood scenarios and inter-dimensional lizards, we should ask: Who benefits?

    Alexander Dugin was in Ankara the day before the coup. This is because the Turkish Eurasianist factions are heavily involved in the reorientation of Turkish policy. The day before the coup Erdogan and Obama were caving on Syria and accepting the Russian position. Everything was going amazingly well from the Russian point of view. Obama was giving up Al-Nusra and Erdogan was negotiating a complete geopolitical reorientation. Putin isn’t actually a Bond villain, and he wouldn’t risk a coup when he is getting everything he wants at the negotiating table.

    So we can see very clearly what direction outside and inside support for this coup would have been coming from.

  223. @PapayaSF
    @PiltdownMan


    Alarm bells are constantly sounded about the aging Japanese population, and how it will fall to a mere 100 million in a few decades, about 3/4 of its peak level—as if that is an unthinkable disaster.
     
    It is, because Japan's Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, just like ours. It works to tax current workers to pay retired one as long as the population is growing, and the ratios are OK: say, 10-12 to 1 (10-12 workers supporting one retiree). It becomes a disaster when the ratio falls to nearly 1 to 1: in effect, each worker supporting his own retiree. And Japan is headed towards that.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @reiner Tor, @Neoconned

    I use to think them printing the money would be the end of the global economy but global investors seem fine with negative rates at the moment….

  224. There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.

    If Muslims thought that way, there’d be no Muslim presence to speak of in Constantinople.

    It sounds great on paper but bla bla bla

    I’ll take my chances, thanks.

    The Japanese are astonishingly poor at exporting to the US on an individual level. There is a healthy demand here for a number of Japanese domestic market items that take a lot of work for an American to buy, and because the only real players are usually American-born Japanese, margins can be high.

    Japanese game devs routinely extrude sheisse ports of their console games, if they bother to extrude them at all.

    Erdogan’s triumphant return from the airport really inspires confidence. I wonder where he was planning to flee to? Camp David, the Negev desert, Fairfax VA, Entebbe, Cairo, Brussels, Staten Island, the Poconos.

    Merkel’s flat.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Svigor

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690120/Turkey-coup-claims-Erdogan-claimed-asylum-Germany-rejected-Merkel

    It is not about a particular leader of Turkey, secular or Erdogan. Germany, Merkel or not, is a natural ally of Turkey.

  225. @reiner Tor
    @PapayaSF

    Depends on how high the pensions are. In Japan they are very low.

    Replies: @PapayaSF

    Depends on how high the pensions are. In Japan they are very low.

    A quick Google indicates the average payout is about $514/month. Add in bureaucratic overhead, and to me that seems like a substantial burden for each taxpayer.

  226. @bossel

    Also, remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which, for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?
     
    Showing your ignorance of Europe, again.
    Germany spent a lot of money (tens if not hundreds of billion Euros) helping Greece. So, obviously they don't want the Greek government keep on doing what they did up to the crisis. The few billion Euros spent on the refugee crisis were nothing in comparison.

    & they are not really inviting the Turkey into the EU, either, definitely not a Turkey under Erdogan.


    BTW, the 'coup' failed easily (& seemingly only very few troops were involved). Looks very much like Erdogan's Reichstag fire.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sean

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690120/Turkey-coup-claims-Erdogan-claimed-asylum-Germany-rejected-Merkel

    https://www.unz.com/mhudson/the-financial-invasion-of-greece/
    The IMF says it will not reduce Greece’s debt by a single penny. It will keep the debt in place. The problem is the way that the European central banks keep their balance sheets, if it breaks down Greece’s debt owed to the IMF then the countries Germany, France, and other countries whose banks are bailed out will have to take a loss and they refuse to lose a single penny. So the IMF has not made a creative proposal. It has repeated what it said a year ago without changing a single word. It says okay, we’re going to keep every penny of debt in place but we’re going to give you a fudging number. We’re only going to charge you 1.5% interest and you won’t have to pay the debt for 25 years. So you get a debt mark [ ] you won’t have to pay interests for 25 years and we’ll charge you only a little bit of interest.

    There’s only one kicker. You’re going to have to cancel your pensions, write them down, impose austerity, privatize your government, and you’re going to have to shrink your economy so that it will shrink by about 1, 2, 3% a year so that the 1.5% interest that we’re charging as little as it is, is going to absorb all the income growth you have. Every penny of growth of have from the next 25 years you’ll have to end up paying the German banks.

    & they are not really inviting the Turkey into the EU, either, definitely not a Turkey under Erdogan.

    Erdogan abolished the death penalty simply because the EU demanded it. “Britain has long supported Turkey under Erdogan’s accession to the EU so has Germany, France and the US of course . See 14/6/16 ‘Britain clears path to further Turkey EU membership talks’ – FT.com The same site reported earlier this year that the French president made concessions over over Turkey’s EU membership http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7527ff94-ed31-11e5-bb79-2303682345c8.

    The US wants Turkey in the EU, and Cameron the British pm until the other day has said for years he also supports Turkeys accession. Recently Cameron said it wasn’t going to happen any time but that was obviously for the referendum. The essential point had been conceded and no country would object but Greece. It was coming, and still is. French banks have loaned money toitally which it has no intention of paying back and so the Paris financial establishment needs Gernany to shore up Italy. The French elite are going to press ahead with what will be sold as their cunning plan to prevent Germany dominating Europe while Merkel continues with a Kulturkampf /soft power blitzkrieg. The Germans run the EU and they want the Turks in with them, and the French establishment agree to everything!.

    Was it Greece or Turkey who fought on the side of Germany; to know that is to understand that some countries are natural enemies and must come into conflictt again and again. In WW1 Germany and Turkey faced Britain and Russia (Turkey’s natural enemy). Germany ended up in a war against the Soviets and capitalist Britain in WW2. Now Germany, which is again trying to re-order Europe, has yet again discovered that Britain is a tougher nut to crack than the failed states of the continent.

  227. @Svigor

    There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.
     
    If Muslims thought that way, there'd be no Muslim presence to speak of in Constantinople.

    It sounds great on paper but bla bla bla
     
    I'll take my chances, thanks.

    The Japanese are astonishingly poor at exporting to the US on an individual level. There is a healthy demand here for a number of Japanese domestic market items that take a lot of work for an American to buy, and because the only real players are usually American-born Japanese, margins can be high.
     
    Japanese game devs routinely extrude sheisse ports of their console games, if they bother to extrude them at all.

    Erdogan’s triumphant return from the airport really inspires confidence. I wonder where he was planning to flee to? Camp David, the Negev desert, Fairfax VA, Entebbe, Cairo, Brussels, Staten Island, the Poconos.
     
    Merkel's flat.

    Replies: @Sean

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690120/Turkey-coup-claims-Erdogan-claimed-asylum-Germany-rejected-Merkel

    It is not about a particular leader of Turkey, secular or Erdogan. Germany, Merkel or not, is a natural ally of Turkey.

  228. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    "...Like southern Italy, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Spain, Greece is a good example of dysgenic decline."

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Anonymous

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.


    Being a really smart Greek would be really frustrating, since you have to deal with mostly stupid people in comparison every day. But you cannot really understand that your congeners are mostly stupid until you are older, if at all. After all was not Greece the greatest nation of Antiquity?

    My attitude is that so long as we have Americans that can fill most of the appliations programming billets out there, let's hire them over equally (but no more) qualified Greeks, and when and if we have notch for the "genuinely really great" programmers over what we have, we'll consider Greek applicants and others from overseas, but their employers have to pay them the average yearly income of a boarded neurosurgeon in New York, plus another ten or fifteen percent for the privilege of the visa to the US Treasury.

    Replies: @iSteveFan

  229. @biz
    @Anonymous

    Bullshit. 'We' didn't 'start' this violence. Islam has been violently attacking the West and expanding via conquest, colonizing, raping, and killing all along the way, ever since its earliest days.

    If your 'we' refers to America, America's first foreign war was with the Barbary States, because they were kidnapping and enslaving our sailors, a mere decade into America's existence.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Cryptogenic

    A common argument made by liberals and Muslims is that if we had never invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, Tunisian guys in Nice wouldn’t have run people over. Duh!

    If this are correct and we’re just reaping what we’ve sown, isn’t that a great reason to NOT let Muslims into your country? And I thought refugees and foreign Muslims were crucial assets without which any modern western society can’t possibly hope to thrive.

    Which is it? Punishment or blessing?

    Let us recapitulate: Muslims are peaceful people who will save your economy after they are done killing you for your meddling and for not giving them jobs even though that’s why you imported them in the first place, to do the jobs your own citizens refuse to do. The terrorists in western countries are the same sort of people that Muslims are fleeing from by moving to new cities where these terrorists seem to show up in again. And also, NAXALT.

    That is the sum of the leftist argument as far as I understand it.

  230. @Anonymous
    @anonymous

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.

    Being a really smart Greek would be really frustrating, since you have to deal with mostly stupid people in comparison every day. But you cannot really understand that your congeners are mostly stupid until you are older, if at all. After all was not Greece the greatest nation of Antiquity?

    My attitude is that so long as we have Americans that can fill most of the appliations programming billets out there, let’s hire them over equally (but no more) qualified Greeks, and when and if we have notch for the “genuinely really great” programmers over what we have, we’ll consider Greek applicants and others from overseas, but their employers have to pay them the average yearly income of a boarded neurosurgeon in New York, plus another ten or fifteen percent for the privilege of the visa to the US Treasury.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @Former Darfur


    After all was not Greece the greatest nation of Antiquity?
     
    That was over 2200 years and several invasions and occupations ago. Not to mention thousands of years of foot traffic crisscrossing the place. To say their gene pool has been diluted is an understatement.
  231. @PV van der Byl
    @Former Darfur

    It also sounds like a large number of entrepreneurial opportunities for round-eyes willing to travel to Japan to source quality components. And sell them, perhaps, via Amazon.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    There is, but you have to pay a high entry cost in learning fluent and idiomatic Japanese, among other things.

  232. @Broski
    @Former Darfur

    I question whether it was dysgenic breeding (low IQ members out reproducing high IQ members, as in the West since the advent of widespread welfare) so much as dysgenic mixing with other groups. Sicilians, Portuguese, and Greeks all used to be roughly as white as, say, Parisians. That they darkened to an olive tone after the advent of Muhammad's conquest philosophy cum religion is not a coincidence.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    I agree that’s probably a lot of it.

  233. @Former Darfur
    @Anonymous

    The number of really sharp Greek CS PhDs in the US (from Greece), across all age groups but in particular young people, is _way_ out of line with the size of the country (seems similar in related fields as well). It looks like a significant ongoing brain-drain effect.

    Those seats should be reserved for Americans. Send them back to Greece.


    Being a really smart Greek would be really frustrating, since you have to deal with mostly stupid people in comparison every day. But you cannot really understand that your congeners are mostly stupid until you are older, if at all. After all was not Greece the greatest nation of Antiquity?

    My attitude is that so long as we have Americans that can fill most of the appliations programming billets out there, let's hire them over equally (but no more) qualified Greeks, and when and if we have notch for the "genuinely really great" programmers over what we have, we'll consider Greek applicants and others from overseas, but their employers have to pay them the average yearly income of a boarded neurosurgeon in New York, plus another ten or fifteen percent for the privilege of the visa to the US Treasury.

    Replies: @iSteveFan

    After all was not Greece the greatest nation of Antiquity?

    That was over 2200 years and several invasions and occupations ago. Not to mention thousands of years of foot traffic crisscrossing the place. To say their gene pool has been diluted is an understatement.

  234. Speaking of great Turkish conspiracy theories, Fethullah Gulen claims Erdogan staged his own coup.

  235. @The Alarmist

    " ... remind me again why Chancellor Merkel has been financially pounding hell out Greece, which for all its sins, is part of the European Union, while cozying up to and inviting into the E.U. Turkey, which is not?"
     
    Because Turkey is the conduit of the new labour force needed to replace the costly one that keeps making our lives difficult because they actually want to maintain their standard of living while their overlords want to rein in the costs of maintaining them. (?)

    Replies: @Pericles

    I’m happy to explain the strategic reasoning of Merkel and the EU.

    Feminism has led European women to not have enough children, so now Arab migrants are invited in order to rape them.

  236. @Neoconned
    @Lot

    I noticed that when I was in L.A. last week.

    Lots of help wanted signs at restaurants and service industry crap.

    What they don't mention is that now that a lot of those Mexicans and Central Americans are quasi legalized and freeloading off welfare or now that they've moved on to gravy jobs nobody's there to do the service work. Asians don't need those jobs and Mexicans are apparently t9 lazy

    Replies: @Pericles

    “now that a lot of those Mexicans and Central Americans are quasi legalized and freeloading off welfare or now that they’ve moved on to gravy jobs nobody’s there to do the service work. ”

    In other words, it’s about time you invited a few million new ones.

  237. @Anonymous
    @Anoni

    There is no Western presence to speak of in Instanbul. Get over it.

    Replies: @biz, @Pericles

    And in a hundred years, there might be no Islamic presence in Constantinople.

    MICA – Make Istanbul Constantinople Again.

  238. @Anonymous
    @Anoni

    Genetically, the Turks are basically the same Anatolians that have been living there for millenia.

    Rivalry and antagonism between the West and Anatolia have always existed and predate when the Anatolians started speaking Turkish and adopted Islam. Do you think everything was hunky dory when they were Greek speaking Byzantines instead? Western Crusaders sacked Byzantium and saw them as heretics.

    Replies: @Pericles

    And yet they look so different now. I wonder what a 23andme survey would tell us?

  239. @PV van der Byl
    @Twinkie

    A superb book! It should be required reading for all iSteve readers. I'm still amazed that Luttwak was just 26 when he wrote it.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Twinkie: Judging from the mess in Ankara, it appears that the Turkish army officer corps is not required to read Edward Luttwak’s “Coup d’Etat.”

    PV van der Byl: A superb book! It should be required reading for all iSteve readers. I’m still amazed that Luttwak was just 26 when he wrote it.

    The book is, of course, copyrighted, and therefore, not free online, and so it is best to buy a copy or borrow it from your library.

    For those who are curious about its contents, here is a contemporary review by the British Marxist historian E.J. Hobsbawn, as well as some excerpts.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1969/08/21/how-to-plot-your-takeover/

    http://www.subliminal.org/news/coup.html

  240. @gzu
    @Jefferson

    " 2 Muslim countries Bosnia and Albania is already 2 too many. "

    Go swallow razors.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “Go swallow razors.”

    You first Ahmed.

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