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Trump's Tax Returns, Yet Again
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One of the more telling obsessions of the last four years has been the Democrats’ conviction that if they could just get their hands on even more of Trump’s old tax returns they could prove this reclusive, mysterious figure is NOT A REAL BILLIONAIRE.

Hillary, in-between bringing up Alicia Machado and the dispute between the clubhouse architect and the owner at the Trump Westchester country club where Hillary is a member, was always asking “Is he even a real billionaire?” At Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” speech to gay Wall Street donors, the musical highlight was Barbra Streisand singing a parody adaptation of “Send In The Clowns,” in which she began:

IS HE THAT RICH?
MAYBE HE’S POOR?
’TIL HE REVEALS HIS RETURNS
WHO CAN BE SURE?
WHO NEEDS THIS CLOWN?

One assumption behind the Democrats’ was that nobody is aware that Trump ran into financial trouble in the 1980s. But at the time, the hope that we’ll never have to hear again from this blowhard was wildly popular. For example, some David Letterman Top Ten Lists from 1990-1991:

Top 10 Signs that Trump Is in Trouble

June 6, 1990 …

9. Trump Shuttle now used to haul lumber.
8. Attracting a lower class of bimbo.
7. Recently asked advisors how they thought a “Battling Billionaire”
character would go over on the pro wrestling circuit.
6. Has been sucking up to Merv [Griffin]
5. This morning, he had himself evicted. …
3. Now does tacky embarrassing things on a much smaller scale.
2. Just got a paper route.
1. He now takes my calls.

Top 10 Things that Keep Donald Trump Awake at Night

June 22, 1990

10. Might have to borrow money from Merv.
9. Fear that if he sells Taj Mahal, new owner will turn it into a
tacky ostentatious eyesore. …
5. Other guys in the shelter snore.
4. Drunk houseboy Ernesto blasting car stereo while lifting weights
in garage at 2 a.m.

Top 10 Reasons for the Trump-Maples Break Up

September 24, 1991 …

9. Banks forced him to sell Marla as part of debt restructuring.
8. Shy, reclusive Trump feared marrying an ex-model might attract
attention.
7. Caught him stealing tips off other tables at restaurants. …
5. Philosophical differences about Dead Sea Scrolls. …
3. He found out she was lying when she said her father invented maple syrup.

 
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  1. I’m sure there’s all sorts of shenanigans in his tax returns because he’s a sleazeball. This is a fascinating look into the kinds of tax evasion and avoidance schemes tha the ultra wealthy engage in:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Lol, yes, the best example in New York just has to be a gentile.

    Next week, Mel Gibson as the prime example of 'Hollywood accounting'.
  2. He did become a Battling Billionaire on the pro wrestling circuit!

    • Replies: @Shermy

    He did become a Battling Billionaire on the pro wrestling circuit!
     
    That's right!!

    And he kicked the CRAP outta that big-mouthed announcer guy! I loved it!

    Just thinking about it makes me want to punch my wife!

    Not hard. Just on the arm.

  3. anonn says:

    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he’s not a billionaire, it’s to demonstrate that’s he’s a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they’d rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    • Agree: Guy De Champlagne
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    This is the kind of thing that people who have never had a business would say. It's not like having a W-2 job where you have income every year and you pay income tax every year. Some years, you lose money. Some years, you lose a lot of money, particularly when your industry is in a historic bust. When you lose a lot of money, you can carry forward some of those losses to offset taxable income in future years. This isn't tax evasion: this is a feature built into the tax code to acknowledge the volatile nature of business income.
    , @Tusk
    People know Amazon doesn't pay taxes and yet they still consume. It doesn't matter anymore, people are passive and generally go only as far as to complain on Twitter.
    , @Pericles
    Yeah, speaking of which, what happened to Hillary's billion-dollar tax free slush fund? Clinton Global Political Contribution Discreet Envelope Foundation or something like that?

    Wow, now you make me think of Huma and Weiner. Last I heard, the hero of the election is now tugging away in a halfway house. Those emails on his laptop, still unfortunately lost somewhere, like the Hudson River. Nostalgic.
    , @Anonymous
    Unless you support the police state and everything the government does why would you be against a person keeping his own money and spending it how he sees fit instead of funding a government whose decisions, laws, policies and institutions you disagree with 90% of the time. That’s neoconservative logic of not supporting big government but supporting the police who make it possible by enforcing liberal laws with violence.

    What his tax returns show is he as a real estate investor took hundreds of millions of dollars off in depreciation something everyone who owns a real property does. It’s not some big mystery.

    , @Endgame Napoleon
    It’s probably because they’re in real estate, paying mostly capital gains when they sell the properties, but all in that business is not wine and roses. When working in insurance, I saw multiple accounts of people with large real estate holdings. I talked to them frequently because of the constant payments of yearly premiums for paid-off rental properties. They have those constant, bigly chunks of money for insurance premiums going out, in addition to repairs and property taxes on all of those properties. They aren’t all rich, indeed, so it’s no big surprise to me if he’s not a high-flying billionaire as shown on TV.

    That’s not why I voted for him, anyway, and it won’t have anything to do with why I won’t vote for him in 2020. Billionaire or millionaire, Donald J. Trump promised to stop illegal immigration and to reduce the flow of legal immigration to reasonable numbers. He has not delivered at all, and his lack of timely delivery has not been under-budget.
    , @Prester John
    When all is said and done it will probably be "revealed" that everything Donnie did was legal. "The problem is not in our stars, dear Brutus, but in ourselves" , and the problem is not with Don Trump, but with the United States Tax Code.

    And nobody in Congress--NOBODY!--will dare lift a finger to change it. After all--it's how they perpetuate themselves in office.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. The rich, and many of the tech companies, avoid being liable for taxes through various schemes. These schemes may be morally questionable, but they are all legal.

    Tax evasion means not paying the taxes you owe. It has always been illegal.
    , @Olorin
    Found the lazy wagie.

    Dude, you have never owned a business. I can tell. You think about taxes like a Bernie Bro.
  4. Anon7 says:

    The fascination with Trump’s tax returns is yet another sign of the divide that endangers our country.

    Democrats mostly work for someone else (when they work at all), usually for a big entity like the government or a university or corporation. Their tax returns are so simple, 1040-EZ is overkill. But they’re still terrified of being audited and caught cheating. Cheating! What a nightmare!

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it.

    The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    I read that article, and it is supposition, guess work, and anti-Trump bias. Oh wait, that’s all you get from the NYT. Wasted my time again.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    Yep. The whole thing about Trump's tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.

    Democrats are fighting on several fronts against him. Still beating the Russiagate horse, and more insiduously, floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. Therefore, any means needed to get him out is moral. Ballots mysteriously found in car trunks, loosey-goosey voter registration rules, voter official hijinks in big cities in purple states, etc.
    , @Anon
    The tax code with written with the notion that the rainmakers should not be scalped. If the billionaires go under, then they will no longer be able to create the jobs that employ the little people. It's called don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Capitalism will die without it.
    , @Precious
    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it. The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    Exactly, no one demanding to look at his tax returns will be able to understand them if they do get a chance to read them. They are acting as if the IRS never looked at them.
    , @Anon
    What planet are the Dems on? EVEN I used losses from the 2000 crash to offset taxable income, thanks to a storefront tax preparer. Why do they think this is some kind of sinister manipulation? Are they really that finance-dumb?
  5. So, what can be agreed on by all is he’s he’s been successful as hosing banks and the IRS.

    Conclusion: He’s beaten evil at it’s own game.

    That’s good enough for me!

    I LOVE THE LITTLE BULLY!!!!!

    GO TRUMP!!!!

    • Replies: @Guy De Champlagne

    I LOVE THE LITTLE BULLY!!!!!

     

    The fact is that's a simply unconscionable sentiment in 2019.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Na-no.

    He’s a YUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEE bully!
  6. At least he has no chance of being elected President now.

  7. @Anon7
    The fascination with Trump’s tax returns is yet another sign of the divide that endangers our country.

    Democrats mostly work for someone else (when they work at all), usually for a big entity like the government or a university or corporation. Their tax returns are so simple, 1040-EZ is overkill. But they’re still terrified of being audited and caught cheating. Cheating! What a nightmare!

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it.

    The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    I read that article, and it is supposition, guess work, and anti-Trump bias. Oh wait, that’s all you get from the NYT. Wasted my time again.

    Yep. The whole thing about Trump’s tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.

    Democrats are fighting on several fronts against him. Still beating the Russiagate horse, and more insiduously, floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. Therefore, any means needed to get him out is moral. Ballots mysteriously found in car trunks, loosey-goosey voter registration rules, voter official hijinks in big cities in purple states, etc.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Anon7
    “The whole thing about Trump’s tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.”

    Right.

    “...any means needed to get him out is moral.”

    Very scary for our country.

    I was trying to get at the idea that Donald Trump challenges Democrats and Lefties on so many levels that you can’t even keep track of it. Rather than being intellectually curious, Democrats just want Trump locked up in the stocks in the town square so they can throw tomatoes at him.

    Trump is truly the poster child for “Think Different”; people who went straight from high school to university to white collar work in some big organization could learn something from him.

    , @Budd Dwyer
    Given what we have seen with the election of Trump that an unaccountable Deep State controls the U.S., and all institutions of influence are loyal servants of this unelected group, and politics is largely theater, how can we possibly return to normal after Trump? How can we have any trust in our government or have hope and faith in our country?

    But maybe things will be so unraveled by then that such questions will seem quaint and out of date.
    , @Anon
    "floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. "

    I agree with that idea. Fuck Congress and fuck the fake phony "elections."
  8. Anon[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7
    The fascination with Trump’s tax returns is yet another sign of the divide that endangers our country.

    Democrats mostly work for someone else (when they work at all), usually for a big entity like the government or a university or corporation. Their tax returns are so simple, 1040-EZ is overkill. But they’re still terrified of being audited and caught cheating. Cheating! What a nightmare!

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it.

    The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    I read that article, and it is supposition, guess work, and anti-Trump bias. Oh wait, that’s all you get from the NYT. Wasted my time again.

    The tax code with written with the notion that the rainmakers should not be scalped. If the billionaires go under, then they will no longer be able to create the jobs that employ the little people. It’s called don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Capitalism will die without it.

  9. J.Ross says: • Website

    It would be acceptable to be amused at how ridiculous the Democrats are if the law applied to them. As it is, pointing out their ridiculousness is not a defense against their next insanity, and they get infinite second chances on things like defaming law-abiding citizens, launching a pre-dawn SWAT style raid on an unarmed sexagenarian who had said he would not attempt to flee, costing millions of dollars investigating nothing (and now more money investigating nothing again), and punitive prison sentences for people who had nothing to do with the alleged basis of investigation.
    Our law enforcement institutions must not be allowed to pretend that punitive “investigation” is legitimate. Trump deserves everything they throw at him until he does something about this. If they were to stop on their own (assuming they possessed some shred of grace or humility) they would be admitting that they had no ideas. They will thump the Russia drum until a grown-up takes it forcibly away from them.

  10. The 1991 stuff re Marla Maples was funny.

  11. @Shermy
    So, what can be agreed on by all is he's he's been successful as hosing banks and the IRS.

    Conclusion: He's beaten evil at it's own game.

    That's good enough for me!

    I LOVE THE LITTLE BULLY!!!!!

    GO TRUMP!!!!

    I LOVE THE LITTLE BULLY!!!!!

    The fact is that’s a simply unconscionable sentiment in 2019.

  12. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    This is the kind of thing that people who have never had a business would say. It’s not like having a W-2 job where you have income every year and you pay income tax every year. Some years, you lose money. Some years, you lose a lot of money, particularly when your industry is in a historic bust. When you lose a lot of money, you can carry forward some of those losses to offset taxable income in future years. This isn’t tax evasion: this is a feature built into the tax code to acknowledge the volatile nature of business income.

    • Replies: @istevefan

    This is the kind of thing that people who have never had a business would say.
     
    I recall getting hammered with my S-Corp on taxes. The corporation would report a positive net income, and that income would then transfer via a K-1 form to my personal taxes which raised my AGI and tax liability. However, because my business was growing, I would leave the profits in the business to continue to reinvest. So I did not take out the profits at that time to allow me to pay my tax bill. I had to pay those taxes out of my personal funds.

    Of course there were other years during our startup where the corporation's losses allowed me to lower my AGI, and thus reduce my tax burden. So it cuts both ways. But to the average person they don't see this.
  13. @Anon7
    The fascination with Trump’s tax returns is yet another sign of the divide that endangers our country.

    Democrats mostly work for someone else (when they work at all), usually for a big entity like the government or a university or corporation. Their tax returns are so simple, 1040-EZ is overkill. But they’re still terrified of being audited and caught cheating. Cheating! What a nightmare!

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it.

    The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    I read that article, and it is supposition, guess work, and anti-Trump bias. Oh wait, that’s all you get from the NYT. Wasted my time again.

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it. The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    Exactly, no one demanding to look at his tax returns will be able to understand them if they do get a chance to read them. They are acting as if the IRS never looked at them.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    “They are acting as if the IRS never looked at them.”

    This.

    Also, Democrats are terrified of authority and want to stay as far back from the line between legal and illegal as possible. Businessmen like Trump actually pay money to get as close to the line between legal and illegal as possible, and sometimes you can’t tell where the line is without actually stepping over it now and then. Some law, like intellectual property law, doesn’t even mean anything until it has been litigated.

  14. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    People know Amazon doesn’t pay taxes and yet they still consume. It doesn’t matter anymore, people are passive and generally go only as far as to complain on Twitter.

  15. @Shermy
    So, what can be agreed on by all is he's he's been successful as hosing banks and the IRS.

    Conclusion: He's beaten evil at it's own game.

    That's good enough for me!

    I LOVE THE LITTLE BULLY!!!!!

    GO TRUMP!!!!

    Na-no.

    He’s a YUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEE bully!

  16. It would be more informative to see the tax returns of everybody given a green card in the past few years. How much have they paid to the U.S. Treasury? How many exemptions do they take, i.e., how many dependants? Of school age.

  17. The Top Ten Lists were generally pretty funny. The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell. I assume they were mostly due to his writers.

    • Replies: @jon

    The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell.
     
    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.
    , @Anon87
    Top Ten list was an awful, unfunny bit. Chris Elliot was really the only thing I've ever laughed at on Letterman.
  18. “Is he even a real billionaire?”

    I recall them bringing this up during the campaign. Trump announced he was worth $10 billion, many reporters suggested it was closer to $1 billion. And Hildy even questioned that. I felt it was silly because the people who were voting for Trump were not doing so because of his net worth, but because of the issues he promoted. It’s not as though I would have abandoned him if I found out his wealth was really $2 billion instead of $10 billion.

    The other excuse I hear about needing Trump’s taxes is to find the evidence that he has some loans from Russian banks through which they are controlling him.

  19. There are much worse things than being a tax-cheat. Like, for example, being a greedy, corrupt, deceitful, power-mad would-be tyrant, like Hillary Clinton.

  20. After reading the “big scoop,” this is clearly another 5D chess move by Trump. Steve Mnuchin has already committed to providing the President’s six most recent years of tax documents to a rabid Democrat House. Those documents likely prove that Trump is a multi-billionaire. By creating a tempest in a teapot over returns from the early 1990s, a media firestorm over which Trump actually lived through in Manhattan for a half decade, the media have once again proven themselves shills on a stage set by the President.

  21. @JerryC
    He did become a Battling Billionaire on the pro wrestling circuit!

    He did become a Battling Billionaire on the pro wrestling circuit!

    That’s right!!

    And he kicked the CRAP outta that big-mouthed announcer guy! I loved it!

    Just thinking about it makes me want to punch my wife!

    Not hard. Just on the arm.

  22. @Dave Pinsen
    This is the kind of thing that people who have never had a business would say. It's not like having a W-2 job where you have income every year and you pay income tax every year. Some years, you lose money. Some years, you lose a lot of money, particularly when your industry is in a historic bust. When you lose a lot of money, you can carry forward some of those losses to offset taxable income in future years. This isn't tax evasion: this is a feature built into the tax code to acknowledge the volatile nature of business income.

    This is the kind of thing that people who have never had a business would say.

    I recall getting hammered with my S-Corp on taxes. The corporation would report a positive net income, and that income would then transfer via a K-1 form to my personal taxes which raised my AGI and tax liability. However, because my business was growing, I would leave the profits in the business to continue to reinvest. So I did not take out the profits at that time to allow me to pay my tax bill. I had to pay those taxes out of my personal funds.

    Of course there were other years during our startup where the corporation’s losses allowed me to lower my AGI, and thus reduce my tax burden. So it cuts both ways. But to the average person they don’t see this.

  23. Re the “send in the clowns” lyrics , guess you have to have a New York accent to rhyme poor and sure

    • Replies: @Anon
    New Jersey. That's why they make Danny Devito say "hoors" all the time on Sunny
  24. Anon7 says:
    @Precious
    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it. The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    Exactly, no one demanding to look at his tax returns will be able to understand them if they do get a chance to read them. They are acting as if the IRS never looked at them.

    “They are acting as if the IRS never looked at them.”

    This.

    Also, Democrats are terrified of authority and want to stay as far back from the line between legal and illegal as possible. Businessmen like Trump actually pay money to get as close to the line between legal and illegal as possible, and sometimes you can’t tell where the line is without actually stepping over it now and then. Some law, like intellectual property law, doesn’t even mean anything until it has been litigated.

  25. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump’s past poverty is of interest to Democrats because it’s supposed to be the reason he became indebted to Russians.

  26. The left has gone full Underpants Gnomes on Trump’s Taxes. Try to follow their logic here:

    1) Trump always lost money, showing he’s a bad business man.
    2) Trump’s a tax cheat, because he didn’t pay taxes on his negative income.
    3) Profit… err, he’s in bed with the Russians.

  27. Anon7 says:
    @South Texas Guy
    Yep. The whole thing about Trump's tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.

    Democrats are fighting on several fronts against him. Still beating the Russiagate horse, and more insiduously, floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. Therefore, any means needed to get him out is moral. Ballots mysteriously found in car trunks, loosey-goosey voter registration rules, voter official hijinks in big cities in purple states, etc.

    “The whole thing about Trump’s tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.”

    Right.

    “…any means needed to get him out is moral.”

    Very scary for our country.

    I was trying to get at the idea that Donald Trump challenges Democrats and Lefties on so many levels that you can’t even keep track of it. Rather than being intellectually curious, Democrats just want Trump locked up in the stocks in the town square so they can throw tomatoes at him.

    Trump is truly the poster child for “Think Different”; people who went straight from high school to university to white collar work in some big organization could learn something from him.

  28. Paul says:

    Donald Trump was in a fortunate position during the real estate crash in that his creditors figured it would cost them more money to let him go broke than to bail him out.

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.
     
    The problem wasn't gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.
    , @William Badwhite

    Donald Trump was in a fortunate position during the real estate crash in that his creditors figured it would cost them more money to let him go broke than to bail him out.
     
    The old saw: "If you owe the bank a million dollars and can't pay, you're fu*&ed. If you owe the bank a hundred million and can't pay, the bank is fu*&ed".

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.
     
    Quite a few folks have made this mistake: "a casino, how hard could it be?" Its hard. Ask the Hooter's guy (Bob Brooks) that got cleaned out trying to run one. Smart people too - Texas Pacific Group and Apollo bought Harrah's and lost a ton on it.
  29. I have been in business for myself for most of my career. Frankly, I don’t care what happens to Trump, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, or any other billionaires; it doesn’t affect me personally one way or the other.

    What I do care about is demagogues using outliers like Trump’s run of bad luck in the late 80s to mid 90s as rationale for doing away with useful sections of the tax code that encourage business formation, risk taking, and yes, allow for companies to wipe the slate clean through bankruptcy proceedings if need be.

    I can very easily envision the innumerate doofii (doofuses?) in congress, both old and new, enacting a lot of bad legislation that will fall particularly hard on small business, stuff like a gross receipts tax, laws that make it easier to pierce the corporate veil and hold owners of shares in subchapter S corporations or LLCs personally liable for a business’ debts, elimination of legitimate write-offs, e.g. being able to expense certain capital expenditures the same year, etc. etc. Who cares if small business gets hurt? Ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette, and if it brings down the Bad Orange Man, who cares if a bunch of mom-and-pop businesses go under? They were probably Trump voters anyway.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Make the gross receipts tax graduated, aka progressive. 1% $100,000-$1,000,000,000. Basically, set it so the self-employed cover self-employment taxes, plus a little more, more for larger corporations.
    Watch all the progressive groups have a fit when their paymasters have them oppose it.
  30. @Paul
    Donald Trump was in a fortunate position during the real estate crash in that his creditors figured it would cost them more money to let him go broke than to bail him out.

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.

    The problem wasn’t gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.

    • Replies: @Travis
    Atlantic City is a small town, with a population of just 39,000 people. Back in the 80s when Atlantic City was booming the population was actually more Black than today, yet somehow Steve Wynn was able to make his fortune in the 80s with his Golden Nugget casino.

    The problem for Atlantic City came when neighboring Delaware and Pennsylvania started opening casinos. Pennsylvania now has more Casinos than New Jersey. The majority of the gamblers in Atlantic City have always been from Pennsylvania and still are today.

    in 2012, Pennsylvania surpassed New Jersey to become No. 2 behind Nevada in gambling revenues. Back in 2006 Atlantic City casinos has $6 billion in gambling revenues and Pennsylvania had not yet legalized casinos.. 6 years later Pennsylvania had $3.2 Billion in gambling revenue verse $3 Billion for Atlantic City. The reason Atlantic City failed is quite simple, dozens of new casinos opened in neighboring states. Philadelphia is more Black than Atlantic City yet 4 casinos have opened in Philadelphia since 2009 and are thriving at the expense of Atlantic City. It is quite clear that while NJ lost $3 billion in gambling revenues after Pennsylvania legalized casinos and now take in $3.2 billion in gambling revenues
    , @jon
    Having never been there, I always wondered why Atlantic City, with its seemingly better location, never seemed to take off like Vegas. This explains a lot, thanks:

    The problem wasn’t gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.
     
  31. In 2011 Donald Trump was roasted by Seth MacFarlane on Comedy Central. According to Jeffrey Ross, who works all of these, the only topic that was verboten was Trump lying about his wealth. Ross told a joke listed the things he and Trump had in common, one of which was that they both fantasize about Ivanka, and the joke was allowed.

  32. Paul says:

    Atlantic City does look depressing to me, other than right along the boardwalk. In Las Vegas, plenty of Asians show up on buses. However, the Asians who fly in from Hawaii seem to have plenty of money to throw around. And they would come in where I was working with pineapple to give out.

  33. Thanks to her and Bill’s grifting, they are close to being, if not actual billionaires, so of course they’d look down on a poseur like Trump.

  34. @Dave Pinsen

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.
     
    The problem wasn't gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.

    Atlantic City is a small town, with a population of just 39,000 people. Back in the 80s when Atlantic City was booming the population was actually more Black than today, yet somehow Steve Wynn was able to make his fortune in the 80s with his Golden Nugget casino.

    The problem for Atlantic City came when neighboring Delaware and Pennsylvania started opening casinos. Pennsylvania now has more Casinos than New Jersey. The majority of the gamblers in Atlantic City have always been from Pennsylvania and still are today.

    in 2012, Pennsylvania surpassed New Jersey to become No. 2 behind Nevada in gambling revenues. Back in 2006 Atlantic City casinos has $6 billion in gambling revenues and Pennsylvania had not yet legalized casinos.. 6 years later Pennsylvania had $3.2 Billion in gambling revenue verse $3 Billion for Atlantic City. The reason Atlantic City failed is quite simple, dozens of new casinos opened in neighboring states. Philadelphia is more Black than Atlantic City yet 4 casinos have opened in Philadelphia since 2009 and are thriving at the expense of Atlantic City. It is quite clear that while NJ lost $3 billion in gambling revenues after Pennsylvania legalized casinos and now take in $3.2 billion in gambling revenues

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    I blame Bruce Springsteen. After hearing "Atlantic City" who would want to go there?
    , @LondonBob
    How did legitimate businessman Steve Wynn make money in Atlantic City in the eighties?
  35. Anon[381] • Disclaimer says:

    Like his support is going to evaporate if he turns out to be insolvent. Yeah, right. I can imagine that he would be personally embarassed by his tax returns being released, but it will have zero political effect.

    A closely held, multi-business enterprise like his is going to have complex returns, but it’s not like he does them himself using Turbo Tax. The returns are done by professionals and the IRS checks them out, and may audit anything they want more information about.

    My prediction: The returns will have some tiny thread relating to … Russia. All hell will break out on web sites and social media realated to the “resistance.”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Hannity says (sigh) that Trump actually is fighting back against this, but he's doing it properly and without bombast, and reports on the completely illegal FISA warrants are coming soon.
    So while your prediction is right ("He visited Russia in the 90s! Proof!") we have to ... (sigh) trust the (sigh) plan.
  36. @Sgt. Joe Friday
    I have been in business for myself for most of my career. Frankly, I don't care what happens to Trump, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, or any other billionaires; it doesn't affect me personally one way or the other.

    What I do care about is demagogues using outliers like Trump's run of bad luck in the late 80s to mid 90s as rationale for doing away with useful sections of the tax code that encourage business formation, risk taking, and yes, allow for companies to wipe the slate clean through bankruptcy proceedings if need be.

    I can very easily envision the innumerate doofii (doofuses?) in congress, both old and new, enacting a lot of bad legislation that will fall particularly hard on small business, stuff like a gross receipts tax, laws that make it easier to pierce the corporate veil and hold owners of shares in subchapter S corporations or LLCs personally liable for a business' debts, elimination of legitimate write-offs, e.g. being able to expense certain capital expenditures the same year, etc. etc. Who cares if small business gets hurt? Ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette, and if it brings down the Bad Orange Man, who cares if a bunch of mom-and-pop businesses go under? They were probably Trump voters anyway.

    Make the gross receipts tax graduated, aka progressive. 1% $100,000-$1,000,000,000. Basically, set it so the self-employed cover self-employment taxes, plus a little more, more for larger corporations.
    Watch all the progressive groups have a fit when their paymasters have them oppose it.

  37. @Travis
    Atlantic City is a small town, with a population of just 39,000 people. Back in the 80s when Atlantic City was booming the population was actually more Black than today, yet somehow Steve Wynn was able to make his fortune in the 80s with his Golden Nugget casino.

    The problem for Atlantic City came when neighboring Delaware and Pennsylvania started opening casinos. Pennsylvania now has more Casinos than New Jersey. The majority of the gamblers in Atlantic City have always been from Pennsylvania and still are today.

    in 2012, Pennsylvania surpassed New Jersey to become No. 2 behind Nevada in gambling revenues. Back in 2006 Atlantic City casinos has $6 billion in gambling revenues and Pennsylvania had not yet legalized casinos.. 6 years later Pennsylvania had $3.2 Billion in gambling revenue verse $3 Billion for Atlantic City. The reason Atlantic City failed is quite simple, dozens of new casinos opened in neighboring states. Philadelphia is more Black than Atlantic City yet 4 casinos have opened in Philadelphia since 2009 and are thriving at the expense of Atlantic City. It is quite clear that while NJ lost $3 billion in gambling revenues after Pennsylvania legalized casinos and now take in $3.2 billion in gambling revenues

    I blame Bruce Springsteen. After hearing “Atlantic City” who would want to go there?

  38. @Guy De Champlagne
    I'm sure there's all sorts of shenanigans in his tax returns because he's a sleazeball. This is a fascinating look into the kinds of tax evasion and avoidance schemes tha the ultra wealthy engage in:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

    Lol, yes, the best example in New York just has to be a gentile.

    Next week, Mel Gibson as the prime example of ‘Hollywood accounting’.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Is all the money given to Israel or Jewish organisations tax deductible?
  39. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    Yeah, speaking of which, what happened to Hillary’s billion-dollar tax free slush fund? Clinton Global Political Contribution Discreet Envelope Foundation or something like that?

    Wow, now you make me think of Huma and Weiner. Last I heard, the hero of the election is now tugging away in a halfway house. Those emails on his laptop, still unfortunately lost somewhere, like the Hudson River. Nostalgic.

  40. “Drunk houseboy Ernesto blasting car stereo while lifting weights
    in garage at 2 a.m.”

    Hispanic with a hint of gay, I wonder how that would play today.

    • Replies: @George
    The kids today may not believe it but illegal alien household help hired by wealthy Gyno-Americans was fair game for Late Night comedians who were, to use a phrase I only remember hearing in the 21st century, punching up.

    Proto Beckies snagged for hiring illegal Hispanics to clean house instead of, possibly Black, Americans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Chavez
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannygate
  41. @Travis
    Atlantic City is a small town, with a population of just 39,000 people. Back in the 80s when Atlantic City was booming the population was actually more Black than today, yet somehow Steve Wynn was able to make his fortune in the 80s with his Golden Nugget casino.

    The problem for Atlantic City came when neighboring Delaware and Pennsylvania started opening casinos. Pennsylvania now has more Casinos than New Jersey. The majority of the gamblers in Atlantic City have always been from Pennsylvania and still are today.

    in 2012, Pennsylvania surpassed New Jersey to become No. 2 behind Nevada in gambling revenues. Back in 2006 Atlantic City casinos has $6 billion in gambling revenues and Pennsylvania had not yet legalized casinos.. 6 years later Pennsylvania had $3.2 Billion in gambling revenue verse $3 Billion for Atlantic City. The reason Atlantic City failed is quite simple, dozens of new casinos opened in neighboring states. Philadelphia is more Black than Atlantic City yet 4 casinos have opened in Philadelphia since 2009 and are thriving at the expense of Atlantic City. It is quite clear that while NJ lost $3 billion in gambling revenues after Pennsylvania legalized casinos and now take in $3.2 billion in gambling revenues

    How did legitimate businessman Steve Wynn make money in Atlantic City in the eighties?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.
    , @Travis
    very easily...he financed the construction of the Golden Nugget with Junk Bonds. The casino was built in 1980 for $140 million. He had purchased the land for $ 8 million. The hotel had 506 rooms and was the second-smallest casino hotel in Atlantic City in 1980 , yet earned the most profit of any Atlantic City casino from 1981-1985. By 1983, the Golden Nugget was the city’s top-earning property, with more than $275 million in revenues for the year. Considering that the hotel had cost $148, it was clear Wynn had scored an unqualified success. all the Atlantic City casinos were making big profits in the 80s, Steve Wynn was the most successful but the other operators all had large profits. From 1983-1989 Atlantic City casinos had higher gaming revenues than the Vegas Strip. Even Trump was earning money in Atlantic City, so much that he paid Penthouse $67 million for their Atlantic City lot next to the Trump Plaza Casino in 1988. Guccione had spent $9 million purchasing the land 0ver the previous 10 years and had begun constructing a casino when they ran out of financing. Trump tore down the structure and build a parking lot.

    Steve Wynn sold his Atlantic City Golden Nugget in 1987 for $450 Million which he used to fund the Mirage in Vegas, the first new build on the strip in 16 years.. the Mirage was the start of the vegas revival and resulted in a building boom on the strip.

    In 1985 Trump purchased a casino on the Bay in Atlantic City for $400 million from the Hilton Corporation, he called it Trump Castle, it went bankrupt in 1992...Trump reacquired full ownership of the Castle in a refinancing deal in December 1993. He then sold the property in 1996 to his new publicly traded company, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, for $500 million and named it Trump Marina. Trump Hotels and Resorts went bankrupt in 2004 and again in 2009. Trump Marina was sold for $35 Million in 2011 and is now the Golden Nugget. Trump resorts went bankrupt for the last time in 2009, which resulted in the closure of the Trump Plaza Casino and Carl Icahn took over the Taj Mahal, which was then sold to the Hard Rock casino for $50 Million. Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991. Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts purchased the Taj Mahal for $900 million in 1996. This was one way Trump was able to make money in Atlantic City as his shareholders all lost 100% of their equity. He used his public company to purchase his 3 individual casinos at top dollar. Then the publicly traded firms went Bankrupt.
  42. Don’t forget Spy magazine, which devoted part of every issue to Donald Trump, the “short-fingered vulgarian”, and his alleged financial house of cards, always about to collapse. I remember towards the end of Spy’s existence, with its perpetual Donald doomsaying, someone asked Trump about them, and he said, It’s not me that’s in trouble, it’s Spy. So yea, not big news.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Actually, "Stubby-fingered vulgarian." And I love how, as always, it's Spy that disappeared into insolvency, not the Don.
  43. jon says:
    @Mr. Anon
    The Top Ten Lists were generally pretty funny. The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell. I assume they were mostly due to his writers.

    The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell.

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started.
     
    I am certainly not too young (would that I were). I never saw his show in the 80s. First time I ever saw it was after he had taken the Late Night show on CBS. His monologues consisted mostly in mugging and reacting to his own jokes, which were few enough.

    I hear tell he was funny, but I never saw much evidence of it.
    , @South Texas Guy

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.
     
    Yep. Letterman was the man in the 80s, though even then he had a reputation as an asshole. It just only came out after his move to CBS. Ace of Spades had a good take on Letterman a few years back. Like me, Ace wrote that in the mid 90s he realized Letterman wasn't making jokes so much as that the joke was on him for watching. Say what you will about Leno's show, Jay was at least attempting to be funny.
  44. @George
    "Drunk houseboy Ernesto blasting car stereo while lifting weights
    in garage at 2 a.m."

    Hispanic with a hint of gay, I wonder how that would play today.

    The kids today may not believe it but illegal alien household help hired by wealthy Gyno-Americans was fair game for Late Night comedians who were, to use a phrase I only remember hearing in the 21st century, punching up.

    Proto Beckies snagged for hiring illegal Hispanics to clean house instead of, possibly Black, Americans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Chavez
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannygate

    • Replies: @George
    I couldn't find videos of Jay Leno, a white garage mechanic turned comedian, illegal immigrant bashing from decades ago but available for free on jstor is scholarly work on Jay Leno's illegal alien jokes:

    Pres Bush says deporting millions of illegal aliens is unrealistic. Isn't that what Mexico has already done?

    Great May Day marches or as Wal Mart calls it May Day May Day we have no cashiers.

    Gas is $3.85, it's cheaper to have illegal immigrants push your car.

    On a strike Leno said everything is closed except that big hole in the fence.

    Cinco de Mayo work stoppage (historical note probably no work was stopped) Leno said Sicko de Worko
    , @George
    Scholarly work on Jay Leno anti immigrant jokes:

    Did You Call in Mexican? The Racial Politics of Jay Leno Immigrant Jokes
    Otto Santa Ana

    Language in Society
    Vol. 38, No. 1 (Feb., 2009), pp. 23-45 (23 pages)
    Published by: Cambridge University Press

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/40207913?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Acbfc984bcc35131fb1cbd9de069c6248&seq=10#page_scan_tab_contents
  45. @Pericles
    Lol, yes, the best example in New York just has to be a gentile.

    Next week, Mel Gibson as the prime example of 'Hollywood accounting'.

    Is all the money given to Israel or Jewish organisations tax deductible?

  46. jon says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.
     
    The problem wasn't gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.

    Having never been there, I always wondered why Atlantic City, with its seemingly better location, never seemed to take off like Vegas. This explains a lot, thanks:

    The problem wasn’t gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    This isn't really an answer. I have been to Atlantic City, and I thought it had great unrealized potential. The answer is that there was and continues to be a failure in planning and development.

    The experience of seeing Donald the Pres makes me think that Donald the Real Estate Magnate was hampered by lack of vision, lack of tenacity, and a personality that made some people simply not want to cooperate with him.
  47. @LondonBob
    How did legitimate businessman Steve Wynn make money in Atlantic City in the eighties?

    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn’t believe him.

    • Replies: @Paul
    I was in the seedy El Cortez's restaurant downtown (Bugsy's joint before the Flamingo was built on the Strip) recently and there is a big picture of him on the wall.
    , @Paul
    Bugsy Siegel kept telling the Mob guys he needed more money to build the Flamingo. They suspected he was scamming them.
    , @reiner Tor
    Roulette wheels only make money if people are playing them. And then there's the obvious point that they have to make more money than the cost of running the casino, like salary for the croupier, cost of electricity, free drinks for the gamblers, etc.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Stock market, anyone?

    Every one of you who faithfully holds your "401k" or whatever, so happy now, is like the average schmo who goes on a weekend vacation and walks into a casino to play whatever glitzy game they have.

    You don't own the wheel.

    Your shares are just like chips stacked on green felt. If you get up from the table now, and go to the window and cash them in, you will be able to take your winnings home to Kansas -- at which point you should find a way to convert your worthless dollars into something, anything, of real value.

    Don't wait.

    -- Contrarian Bear
    , @South Texas Guy

    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel?
     
    Also, it's my understanding that in the 80s and 90s, Atlantic City was a much bigger deal with less competition from other gambling venues (in fact, I hear Foxwoods is fairly nice). And although roulette is a long-term winning proposition for a casino, I've read enough on gambling (and done it enough) to know that slots (video poker, etc.) are where the real money is made. It's a hell of a lot harder to double a C-note on a slot machine than it is do on a roulette wheel, at the craps table (best table game), blackjack - stay away from Carribbean Poker, Pai Gow and every other table game.
  48. Anonymous [AKA "John Warwick"] says:
    @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    Unless you support the police state and everything the government does why would you be against a person keeping his own money and spending it how he sees fit instead of funding a government whose decisions, laws, policies and institutions you disagree with 90% of the time. That’s neoconservative logic of not supporting big government but supporting the police who make it possible by enforcing liberal laws with violence.

    What his tax returns show is he as a real estate investor took hundreds of millions of dollars off in depreciation something everyone who owns a real property does. It’s not some big mystery.

    • Replies: @Carol
    Yes the scary thing is that they find out the current state of the US tax code.

    I mean, Congress probably has no idea ..
  49. @George
    The kids today may not believe it but illegal alien household help hired by wealthy Gyno-Americans was fair game for Late Night comedians who were, to use a phrase I only remember hearing in the 21st century, punching up.

    Proto Beckies snagged for hiring illegal Hispanics to clean house instead of, possibly Black, Americans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Chavez
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannygate

    I couldn’t find videos of Jay Leno, a white garage mechanic turned comedian, illegal immigrant bashing from decades ago but available for free on jstor is scholarly work on Jay Leno’s illegal alien jokes:

    Pres Bush says deporting millions of illegal aliens is unrealistic. Isn’t that what Mexico has already done?

    Great May Day marches or as Wal Mart calls it May Day May Day we have no cashiers.

    Gas is $3.85, it’s cheaper to have illegal immigrants push your car.

    On a strike Leno said everything is closed except that big hole in the fence.

    Cinco de Mayo work stoppage (historical note probably no work was stopped) Leno said Sicko de Worko

  50. @George
    The kids today may not believe it but illegal alien household help hired by wealthy Gyno-Americans was fair game for Late Night comedians who were, to use a phrase I only remember hearing in the 21st century, punching up.

    Proto Beckies snagged for hiring illegal Hispanics to clean house instead of, possibly Black, Americans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Chavez
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannygate

    Scholarly work on Jay Leno anti immigrant jokes:

    Did You Call in Mexican? The Racial Politics of Jay Leno Immigrant Jokes
    Otto Santa Ana

    Language in Society
    Vol. 38, No. 1 (Feb., 2009), pp. 23-45 (23 pages)
    Published by: Cambridge University Press

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/40207913?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Acbfc984bcc35131fb1cbd9de069c6248&seq=10#page_scan_tab_contents

  51. Paul says:

    I do not know what Donald Trump did wrong in the gaming business because I never worked at one of his casinos. Maybe he did not understand the comping system such as Room/Food/Beverage (RFB) to which high rollers are accustomed in Las Vegas. The gambling operators from places like Steubenville and Hot Springs who built Las Vegas knew the racket.

  52. @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.

    I was in the seedy El Cortez’s restaurant downtown (Bugsy’s joint before the Flamingo was built on the Strip) recently and there is a big picture of him on the wall.

  53. Budd Dwyer [AKA "Eddie Collins"] says:
    @South Texas Guy
    Yep. The whole thing about Trump's tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.

    Democrats are fighting on several fronts against him. Still beating the Russiagate horse, and more insiduously, floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. Therefore, any means needed to get him out is moral. Ballots mysteriously found in car trunks, loosey-goosey voter registration rules, voter official hijinks in big cities in purple states, etc.

    Given what we have seen with the election of Trump that an unaccountable Deep State controls the U.S., and all institutions of influence are loyal servants of this unelected group, and politics is largely theater, how can we possibly return to normal after Trump? How can we have any trust in our government or have hope and faith in our country?

    But maybe things will be so unraveled by then that such questions will seem quaint and out of date.

  54. @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.

    Bugsy Siegel kept telling the Mob guys he needed more money to build the Flamingo. They suspected he was scamming them.

  55. Wynn has been hounded with rumors of mafia ties dating back decades. New York mob figure Anthony (Tony Cakes) Castelbouno was busted for laundering narcotics proceeds through a Wynn casino in Atlantic City 35 years ago. A conversation between former Genovese crime family street boss Anthony (Fat Tony) Salerno and one-time Cleveland mafia consigliere John (Peanuts) Tronolone was intercepted by an FBI wire planted in Salerno’s East Harlem headquarters in 1982 where Tronolone requested Salerno use his sway with Wynn to “rein him in,” and aid in sale negotiations related to a piece of property Wynn owned on the Strip. More recently, Boston Goodfellas Darin (Nino) Buffalino and Charles (Good Time Charlie) Lightbody were overheard on a wire talking about how they had Wynn “on their side,” in Las Vegas.

    https://gangsterreport.com/steve-wynn-the-mob-casino-tycoon-walked-on-wild-side-in-early-days-building-his-gambling-kingdom/

    Was Trump oblivious to the nature of the casino business? There are interesting things in his background but we are being told to look the wrong way with the Russia stuff.

    • Replies: @Perplexed
    "Was Trump oblivious to the nature of the casino business? There are interesting things in his background but we are being told to look the wrong way with the Russia stuff."

    Very interesting things. Trump has been a government asset since the early 80s, helping to take down Russian money launderers and the New York Mafia's Five Families. One sting involved a casino in Atlantic City.

    Some Twitterati have extensive researched his role. If you look it up, note whom he worked with. Some of the names are relevant today. Surprise!

  56. Anon[136] • Disclaimer says:

    “If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they’d rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.”

    1) In that case, releasing Trump’s tax returns could be a serious own-goal. If Trump has to release his taxes, then why not pretty much everyone from celebrities to cable news employees and Wall Street hedge fund managers? And I’m being serious, too. If you’re involved in a high-profile position in society, what’s the argument against releasing your tax returns besides just “it’s none of your business”?

    2) Hillary is mad because she played by the rules (minus the hypocritical part about not releasing her health records) and Trump, comically, stiffed her like he did with all his creditors. Lol. He conned her and her overpaid latte-drinking college democrat campaign aides who were soooo confident releasing her taxes would make her look tuff next to Trump. I’m not too broken up about it. She had it coming.

    3) Hillary Clinton has also recently asked the Chinese to get Trump’s tax returns. Funny how treason is bad when only Trump is alleged (falsely) to have done it. Thank God this harpy didn’t get elected. Loser.

    4) Envy is a hell of a thing. Hillary made a mere $10 million in speaking fees from all the important people of the world in 2015, so I can imagine she’d get burned up by the prospect of a fake billionaire who sold freeze-dried steaks over the internet to deplorables also beating her in a farce of an election that was hers to lose among that same demographic. You see, Trump may or may not have money, but Hillary has money from important people, and that’s really what counts.

    5) If the 2016 election were a movie, it would be Trading Places (1983). An “important person” Hillary Clinton welcomes the uncouth street guy into her life as a joke (Jon Oliver: “Please run for office Trump. Do it.”) – confident that she’s read the situation rightly – and he later gets revenge and beats her at her own game with the help of a series of strange enablers, ruining her in the process. Huma is carried out on a stretcher asking what went wrong as Hillary stays behind demanding they turn those voting machines back on.

  57. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    It’s probably because they’re in real estate, paying mostly capital gains when they sell the properties, but all in that business is not wine and roses. When working in insurance, I saw multiple accounts of people with large real estate holdings. I talked to them frequently because of the constant payments of yearly premiums for paid-off rental properties. They have those constant, bigly chunks of money for insurance premiums going out, in addition to repairs and property taxes on all of those properties. They aren’t all rich, indeed, so it’s no big surprise to me if he’s not a high-flying billionaire as shown on TV.

    That’s not why I voted for him, anyway, and it won’t have anything to do with why I won’t vote for him in 2020. Billionaire or millionaire, Donald J. Trump promised to stop illegal immigration and to reduce the flow of legal immigration to reasonable numbers. He has not delivered at all, and his lack of timely delivery has not been under-budget.

  58. @jon
    Having never been there, I always wondered why Atlantic City, with its seemingly better location, never seemed to take off like Vegas. This explains a lot, thanks:

    The problem wasn’t gambling per se but Atlantic City, which is 44% black and a 2.5 hours from New York City. I think a lot of New Yorkers would prefer flying to Vegas than driving to Atlantic City. There are buses to Atlantic City, but riding along with penniless elderly Chinese immigrants who cash in their $10 in tokens and then get lunch at a church soup kitchen down there lacks a certain appeal.
     

    This isn’t really an answer. I have been to Atlantic City, and I thought it had great unrealized potential. The answer is that there was and continues to be a failure in planning and development.

    The experience of seeing Donald the Pres makes me think that Donald the Real Estate Magnate was hampered by lack of vision, lack of tenacity, and a personality that made some people simply not want to cooperate with him.

  59. I really don’t understand why the Dems/Left/Marxists think this is a winning strategy.

    The IRS is far and away one of the most despised institutions in the US. People love it when someone is able to stick it to them the way Trump did.

    If they were in Trump’s shoes most self-righteous libs would do exactly what he did and not lose a wink of sleep.

    Just a dumb strategy that won’t affect Trump’s base much.

  60. @Anonymous
    Unless you support the police state and everything the government does why would you be against a person keeping his own money and spending it how he sees fit instead of funding a government whose decisions, laws, policies and institutions you disagree with 90% of the time. That’s neoconservative logic of not supporting big government but supporting the police who make it possible by enforcing liberal laws with violence.

    What his tax returns show is he as a real estate investor took hundreds of millions of dollars off in depreciation something everyone who owns a real property does. It’s not some big mystery.

    Yes the scary thing is that they find out the current state of the US tax code.

    I mean, Congress probably has no idea ..

  61. @jon

    The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell.
     
    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started.

    I am certainly not too young (would that I were). I never saw his show in the 80s. First time I ever saw it was after he had taken the Late Night show on CBS. His monologues consisted mostly in mugging and reacting to his own jokes, which were few enough.

    I hear tell he was funny, but I never saw much evidence of it.

  62. Trump’s tax returns are the new Obama birth certificate.

    Just like Obama on the sly used the birth certificate as a tar baby distraction to keep his opponents away from effective political strategies, and make them look like kooks, (remember, Trump himself fell into the birth certificate trap), Trump himself, realizing what he did, set out to set such a trap for his political enemies.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.

    Roulette wheels only make money if people are playing them. And then there’s the obvious point that they have to make more money than the cost of running the casino, like salary for the croupier, cost of electricity, free drinks for the gamblers, etc.

  64. @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.

    Stock market, anyone?

    Every one of you who faithfully holds your “401k” or whatever, so happy now, is like the average schmo who goes on a weekend vacation and walks into a casino to play whatever glitzy game they have.

    You don’t own the wheel.

    Your shares are just like chips stacked on green felt. If you get up from the table now, and go to the window and cash them in, you will be able to take your winnings home to Kansas — at which point you should find a way to convert your worthless dollars into something, anything, of real value.

    Don’t wait.

    — Contrarian Bear

  65. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    In the documentary Born Rich Ivanka talks about how proud she is of her parents.

    (Ivanka, btw, comes off better than any of the other heirs and heiresses by a good distance).

    She says she remembers being a kid and her dad pointing to a homeless bum outside of Trump Tower and saying, “That man has more money than me.” She was confused but later realized it was because Donald was billions of dollars in debt.

    It’s funny when Trump’s enemies cast the word “delusional” at him of all things. Being unaware is not generally his problem.

  66. @Anon7
    The fascination with Trump’s tax returns is yet another sign of the divide that endangers our country.

    Democrats mostly work for someone else (when they work at all), usually for a big entity like the government or a university or corporation. Their tax returns are so simple, 1040-EZ is overkill. But they’re still terrified of being audited and caught cheating. Cheating! What a nightmare!

    They simply have no concept that to a business guy like Trump, the tax code is something you use teams of lawyers and accountants to get around and avoid, and even have changed to your specifications if you can afford it. It’s the big kid’s side of the playground. Trump has tried so many different kinds of businesses with so many different tax implications, ordinary people can’t conceive of it.

    The other half of the country understands this, and couldn’t care less about Trump’s tax returns, other than curiously.

    I read that article, and it is supposition, guess work, and anti-Trump bias. Oh wait, that’s all you get from the NYT. Wasted my time again.

    What planet are the Dems on? EVEN I used losses from the 2000 crash to offset taxable income, thanks to a storefront tax preparer. Why do they think this is some kind of sinister manipulation? Are they really that finance-dumb?

  67. @South Texas Guy
    Yep. The whole thing about Trump's tax returns is to cherry pick something to bludgeon him with.

    Democrats are fighting on several fronts against him. Still beating the Russiagate horse, and more insiduously, floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. Therefore, any means needed to get him out is moral. Ballots mysteriously found in car trunks, loosey-goosey voter registration rules, voter official hijinks in big cities in purple states, etc.

    “floating the idea that he may not leave office if voted out. ”

    I agree with that idea. Fuck Congress and fuck the fake phony “elections.”

  68. @Angular momentum
    Re the “send in the clowns” lyrics , guess you have to have a New York accent to rhyme poor and sure

    New Jersey. That’s why they make Danny Devito say “hoors” all the time on Sunny

  69. @Puremania
    Don’t forget Spy magazine, which devoted part of every issue to Donald Trump, the “short-fingered vulgarian”, and his alleged financial house of cards, always about to collapse. I remember towards the end of Spy’s existence, with its perpetual Donald doomsaying, someone asked Trump about them, and he said, It’s not me that’s in trouble, it’s Spy. So yea, not big news.

    Actually, “Stubby-fingered vulgarian.” And I love how, as always, it’s Spy that disappeared into insolvency, not the Don.

  70. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    When all is said and done it will probably be “revealed” that everything Donnie did was legal. “The problem is not in our stars, dear Brutus, but in ourselves” , and the problem is not with Don Trump, but with the United States Tax Code.

    And nobody in Congress–NOBODY!–will dare lift a finger to change it. After all–it’s how they perpetuate themselves in office.

  71. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. The rich, and many of the tech companies, avoid being liable for taxes through various schemes. These schemes may be morally questionable, but they are all legal.

    Tax evasion means not paying the taxes you owe. It has always been illegal.

  72. @LondonBob
    How did legitimate businessman Steve Wynn make money in Atlantic City in the eighties?

    very easily…he financed the construction of the Golden Nugget with Junk Bonds. The casino was built in 1980 for $140 million. He had purchased the land for $ 8 million. The hotel had 506 rooms and was the second-smallest casino hotel in Atlantic City in 1980 , yet earned the most profit of any Atlantic City casino from 1981-1985. By 1983, the Golden Nugget was the city’s top-earning property, with more than $275 million in revenues for the year. Considering that the hotel had cost $148, it was clear Wynn had scored an unqualified success. all the Atlantic City casinos were making big profits in the 80s, Steve Wynn was the most successful but the other operators all had large profits. From 1983-1989 Atlantic City casinos had higher gaming revenues than the Vegas Strip. Even Trump was earning money in Atlantic City, so much that he paid Penthouse $67 million for their Atlantic City lot next to the Trump Plaza Casino in 1988. Guccione had spent $9 million purchasing the land 0ver the previous 10 years and had begun constructing a casino when they ran out of financing. Trump tore down the structure and build a parking lot.

    Steve Wynn sold his Atlantic City Golden Nugget in 1987 for $450 Million which he used to fund the Mirage in Vegas, the first new build on the strip in 16 years.. the Mirage was the start of the vegas revival and resulted in a building boom on the strip.

    In 1985 Trump purchased a casino on the Bay in Atlantic City for $400 million from the Hilton Corporation, he called it Trump Castle, it went bankrupt in 1992…Trump reacquired full ownership of the Castle in a refinancing deal in December 1993. He then sold the property in 1996 to his new publicly traded company, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, for $500 million and named it Trump Marina. Trump Hotels and Resorts went bankrupt in 2004 and again in 2009. Trump Marina was sold for $35 Million in 2011 and is now the Golden Nugget. Trump resorts went bankrupt for the last time in 2009, which resulted in the closure of the Trump Plaza Casino and Carl Icahn took over the Taj Mahal, which was then sold to the Hard Rock casino for $50 Million. Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991. Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts purchased the Taj Mahal for $900 million in 1996. This was one way Trump was able to make money in Atlantic City as his shareholders all lost 100% of their equity. He used his public company to purchase his 3 individual casinos at top dollar. Then the publicly traded firms went Bankrupt.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991.
     
    Your history of Wynn, Trump, and AC was great, but there is one thing you left out that I find interesting. Trump didn't build the Taj Mahal. It was built by Resorts International, who owned the casino next door. They couldn't finish it, so they sold a majority interest in the company to Trump. A businessman then outbid Trump for the entire company, and the two of them fought it out. They came to a settlement where Trump would own the Taj Mahal and the businessman would own Resorts International. That businessman was none other than Merv Griffin, who made his money creating Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. I laugh at the thought of that old queen outfoxing Trump in Atlantic City.
  73. @LondonBob

    Wynn has been hounded with rumors of mafia ties dating back decades. New York mob figure Anthony (Tony Cakes) Castelbouno was busted for laundering narcotics proceeds through a Wynn casino in Atlantic City 35 years ago. A conversation between former Genovese crime family street boss Anthony (Fat Tony) Salerno and one-time Cleveland mafia consigliere John (Peanuts) Tronolone was intercepted by an FBI wire planted in Salerno’s East Harlem headquarters in 1982 where Tronolone requested Salerno use his sway with Wynn to “rein him in,” and aid in sale negotiations related to a piece of property Wynn owned on the Strip. More recently, Boston Goodfellas Darin (Nino) Buffalino and Charles (Good Time Charlie) Lightbody were overheard on a wire talking about how they had Wynn “on their side,” in Las Vegas.
     
    https://gangsterreport.com/steve-wynn-the-mob-casino-tycoon-walked-on-wild-side-in-early-days-building-his-gambling-kingdom/

    Was Trump oblivious to the nature of the casino business? There are interesting things in his background but we are being told to look the wrong way with the Russia stuff.

    “Was Trump oblivious to the nature of the casino business? There are interesting things in his background but we are being told to look the wrong way with the Russia stuff.”

    Very interesting things. Trump has been a government asset since the early 80s, helping to take down Russian money launderers and the New York Mafia’s Five Families. One sting involved a casino in Atlantic City.

    Some Twitterati have extensive researched his role. If you look it up, note whom he worked with. Some of the names are relevant today. Surprise!

  74. @jon

    The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell.
     
    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.

    Yep. Letterman was the man in the 80s, though even then he had a reputation as an asshole. It just only came out after his move to CBS. Ace of Spades had a good take on Letterman a few years back. Like me, Ace wrote that in the mid 90s he realized Letterman wasn’t making jokes so much as that the joke was on him for watching. Say what you will about Leno’s show, Jay was at least attempting to be funny.

    • Replies: @Mister.Baseball
    There's a reason Leno receives high praise from many as a top-tier stand up comic. He has the ability to walk into any room, read the crowd and modify his act accordingly and achieve consistent laughs. The same comics also know that doing a nightly monologue on a major network is difficult, even with a room of writers; and that Leno pulled off something mildly entertaining for so many years speaks of his talent as a stand up comedian.

    Now, as an interviewer? He had a brief window between being a terrible neophyte and an older man visibly disinterested in 99% of his guests where he was serviceable at it. Compared to his peers and some of the acts which have followed, he wasn't all that bad.

    Letterman was once a clever guy making fun of his whole format. Some of those 80s shows and bits (which I only saw after the fact) are really good. But the joke is thin and once Harvey Pekar called him out for being a fraud, and actually visibly angered Letterman, the joke was over. Moving to CBS, he remained for the rest of his career a jilted and bitter entertainer with no point of being in entertainment outside that the hipsters who grew up watching him became the taste-makers and declared him "forever cool".
  75. Reframed: who better than Trump to lead a bankrupt nation and turn the tables on the treasury bill holders, specifically China?

  76. @Steve Sailer
    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel? Okay, Bugsy Siegel told his partners in his Las Vegas Casino that he just having a run of bad luck, but they didn't believe him.

    How do you not make money owning a roulette wheel?

    Also, it’s my understanding that in the 80s and 90s, Atlantic City was a much bigger deal with less competition from other gambling venues (in fact, I hear Foxwoods is fairly nice). And although roulette is a long-term winning proposition for a casino, I’ve read enough on gambling (and done it enough) to know that slots (video poker, etc.) are where the real money is made. It’s a hell of a lot harder to double a C-note on a slot machine than it is do on a roulette wheel, at the craps table (best table game), blackjack – stay away from Carribbean Poker, Pai Gow and every other table game.

  77. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anon
    Like his support is going to evaporate if he turns out to be insolvent. Yeah, right. I can imagine that he would be personally embarassed by his tax returns being released, but it will have zero political effect.

    A closely held, multi-business enterprise like his is going to have complex returns, but it's not like he does them himself using Turbo Tax. The returns are done by professionals and the IRS checks them out, and may audit anything they want more information about.

    My prediction: The returns will have some tiny thread relating to ... Russia. All hell will break out on web sites and social media realated to the "resistance."

    Hannity says (sigh) that Trump actually is fighting back against this, but he’s doing it properly and without bombast, and reports on the completely illegal FISA warrants are coming soon.
    So while your prediction is right (“He visited Russia in the 90s! Proof!”) we have to … (sigh) trust the (sigh) plan.

  78. @Paul
    Donald Trump was in a fortunate position during the real estate crash in that his creditors figured it would cost them more money to let him go broke than to bail him out.

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.

    Donald Trump was in a fortunate position during the real estate crash in that his creditors figured it would cost them more money to let him go broke than to bail him out.

    The old saw: “If you owe the bank a million dollars and can’t pay, you’re fu*&ed. If you owe the bank a hundred million and can’t pay, the bank is fu*&ed”.

    He also saw the gambling (aka gaming) industry, something he knew nothing about and that I do having been in it, as an easy way to make money. He flopped in that.

    Quite a few folks have made this mistake: “a casino, how hard could it be?” Its hard. Ask the Hooter’s guy (Bob Brooks) that got cleaned out trying to run one. Smart people too – Texas Pacific Group and Apollo bought Harrah’s and lost a ton on it.

  79. @Mr. Anon
    The Top Ten Lists were generally pretty funny. The only funny thing about the Letterman show, as far as I could tell. I assume they were mostly due to his writers.

    Top Ten list was an awful, unfunny bit. Chris Elliot was really the only thing I’ve ever laughed at on Letterman.

  80. Anonymous[163] • Disclaimer says:

    Last cycle of Trump tax talk, someone here said he should leak the returns to MSM himself. Did he finally do this? The current story got no traction and seems to have placated his sometime cheerleaders from grumbling this week over Trump’s lack of accomplishment, on about every front aside from symbolic pro-lifer vanity issues. Berlusconi would’ve handled things this way, via old tax returns and Reliable Sources. Enstupidation is the new paradigm

  81. the entire gambit is retarded. in any serious way, at least. obama and his people, who weaponized the IRS, knew everything there was to know about trump’s taxes about 1 day after trump attacked obama. there’s nothing in there. how do we know? because the democrats would have known already and used it against him already. as i said about the mueller investigation, they have NOTHING on trump. he’s the cleanest president in the history of the united states. not one single person holding any other office has been as examined with an electron microscope as this guy.

    it’s very seriously, utterly retarded to think it could be any other way. anybody who thinks the democrats don’t know everything in those tax returns already is a clueless schlub.

    of course i understand the not serious reason for all this is to further damage trump. as a recent vdare article points out, nixon was impeached for attempting to do, what obama actually did, for 8 years. and what the democrats are doing now. this stuff is seriously illegal – unless you’re a democrat.

    also, once democrats start pulling their political opponent’s tax returns, and publishing them in national newspapers, trust in the IRS, and entire income tax paying process, will necessarily plummet. those are supposed to be confidential communications between each private citizen and the government. if there’s no expectation that stuff will be kept secret as agreed upon, then people start getting a lot more reluctant to file.

    democrats already circumvented hundreds of years of established law during the mueller investigation, ignoring attorney client privilege. they’ll now violate social contracts between the US federal government’s tax collecting authority and it’s interaction with it’s citizens.

    next, perhaps, will be violating medical privacy laws, or any other well established, bedrock grounded legal tradition, like due process, assumption of innocence, or other stupid ideas in the constitution. democrats will ignore any laws when necessary to win, while at the same time trying to force republicans to obey any barely applicable laws they can pull out of thin air.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    Agree!
    , @Olorin
    In my lifetime the Dems have always operated in a system where there are two different systems of law--one for them and their pets, and the other for everyone else. The party has been unified at least since the late 1950s by establishing, framing, and fleshing out a competing, jerry-rigged system of politicized law, entirely in their power and dedicated to demographic war.

    2020 is going to be about one issue:

    The rule of law as Logos (or Gnon or whatever you want to call it) honoring the Most High

    vs

    The rule of law as ethnic/group nepotism, mob rule, weaponized grievance and fuckery, talmudic disputation, and trying to weasel your way around the will of the Most High to prove how clever you are and beat the other guy

    It is literally the WWF smackdown of the millennium: Logos Folk versus those they are never allowed to criticize or even Notice.

    If there's one thing The Adversary hates, it's when the Logos Folk master his techniques then defeat him with them. That's why The Adversary gets so riled up and doubles down on illegal nonsense. Like demanding via his mouthpiece of Congress that the Attorney General of the United States commit crimes to produce information in specifically illegal ways--as determined by laws Congress itself passed.

    All in order that The Adversary might keep the narrative going in his headlines, crawl lines, and Twitterbot streams.

    What amazes me continually is that DJT is even bothering.

  82. @South Texas Guy

    Blasphemy. Maybe you are too young, but his show was the funniest thing on TV when he first got started. I think age, or maybe losing the battle to take over for Carson, diminished his later output, though.
     
    Yep. Letterman was the man in the 80s, though even then he had a reputation as an asshole. It just only came out after his move to CBS. Ace of Spades had a good take on Letterman a few years back. Like me, Ace wrote that in the mid 90s he realized Letterman wasn't making jokes so much as that the joke was on him for watching. Say what you will about Leno's show, Jay was at least attempting to be funny.

    There’s a reason Leno receives high praise from many as a top-tier stand up comic. He has the ability to walk into any room, read the crowd and modify his act accordingly and achieve consistent laughs. The same comics also know that doing a nightly monologue on a major network is difficult, even with a room of writers; and that Leno pulled off something mildly entertaining for so many years speaks of his talent as a stand up comedian.

    Now, as an interviewer? He had a brief window between being a terrible neophyte and an older man visibly disinterested in 99% of his guests where he was serviceable at it. Compared to his peers and some of the acts which have followed, he wasn’t all that bad.

    Letterman was once a clever guy making fun of his whole format. Some of those 80s shows and bits (which I only saw after the fact) are really good. But the joke is thin and once Harvey Pekar called him out for being a fraud, and actually visibly angered Letterman, the joke was over. Moving to CBS, he remained for the rest of his career a jilted and bitter entertainer with no point of being in entertainment outside that the hipsters who grew up watching him became the taste-makers and declared him “forever cool”.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    Yeah, the Harvey Pekar thing was a thing. Letterman knew that making guests feel uncomfortable would lead to news, if not ratings. Many guests referenced his A-hole ness.


    Moving to CBS, he remained for the rest of his career a jilted and bitter entertainer with no point of being in entertainment outside that the hipsters who grew up watching him became the taste-makers and declared him “forever cool”.
     
    I think that was the moment when there was a separation of funny and woke. Six months into CBS Letterman just didnt' have it anymore. And he was never a good standup. Leno from the mid 80s onward was regarded as the premiere stand up. Maybe even before. Not to beat this horse, but watch any Letterman interview, and look at his shoes. I'm not one of those types but you can't help but see the slip on loafers and light colored socks. Leno has probably never voted for a Republican in his life, but I'd take him in a foxhole over Letterman any day.
  83. @Travis
    very easily...he financed the construction of the Golden Nugget with Junk Bonds. The casino was built in 1980 for $140 million. He had purchased the land for $ 8 million. The hotel had 506 rooms and was the second-smallest casino hotel in Atlantic City in 1980 , yet earned the most profit of any Atlantic City casino from 1981-1985. By 1983, the Golden Nugget was the city’s top-earning property, with more than $275 million in revenues for the year. Considering that the hotel had cost $148, it was clear Wynn had scored an unqualified success. all the Atlantic City casinos were making big profits in the 80s, Steve Wynn was the most successful but the other operators all had large profits. From 1983-1989 Atlantic City casinos had higher gaming revenues than the Vegas Strip. Even Trump was earning money in Atlantic City, so much that he paid Penthouse $67 million for their Atlantic City lot next to the Trump Plaza Casino in 1988. Guccione had spent $9 million purchasing the land 0ver the previous 10 years and had begun constructing a casino when they ran out of financing. Trump tore down the structure and build a parking lot.

    Steve Wynn sold his Atlantic City Golden Nugget in 1987 for $450 Million which he used to fund the Mirage in Vegas, the first new build on the strip in 16 years.. the Mirage was the start of the vegas revival and resulted in a building boom on the strip.

    In 1985 Trump purchased a casino on the Bay in Atlantic City for $400 million from the Hilton Corporation, he called it Trump Castle, it went bankrupt in 1992...Trump reacquired full ownership of the Castle in a refinancing deal in December 1993. He then sold the property in 1996 to his new publicly traded company, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, for $500 million and named it Trump Marina. Trump Hotels and Resorts went bankrupt in 2004 and again in 2009. Trump Marina was sold for $35 Million in 2011 and is now the Golden Nugget. Trump resorts went bankrupt for the last time in 2009, which resulted in the closure of the Trump Plaza Casino and Carl Icahn took over the Taj Mahal, which was then sold to the Hard Rock casino for $50 Million. Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991. Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts purchased the Taj Mahal for $900 million in 1996. This was one way Trump was able to make money in Atlantic City as his shareholders all lost 100% of their equity. He used his public company to purchase his 3 individual casinos at top dollar. Then the publicly traded firms went Bankrupt.

    Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991.

    Your history of Wynn, Trump, and AC was great, but there is one thing you left out that I find interesting. Trump didn’t build the Taj Mahal. It was built by Resorts International, who owned the casino next door. They couldn’t finish it, so they sold a majority interest in the company to Trump. A businessman then outbid Trump for the entire company, and the two of them fought it out. They came to a settlement where Trump would own the Taj Mahal and the businessman would own Resorts International. That businessman was none other than

    [MORE]
    Merv Griffin, who made his money creating Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. I laugh at the thought of that old queen outfoxing Trump in Atlantic City.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Merv definitely outsmarted me on Jeopardy.
    , @Travis
    True , the Tak was under construction when Trump bought it from Resorts...but Trump owned a controlling interest in Resorts when they started building the Taj...he sold his controlling interest in Resorts to Merv in 1988 and then purchased the Taj from Resorts as part of the deal.

    Mr. Trump, held 94.7 percent of Resorts' class B shares, giving him 88 percent voting control. He had been trying to turn Resorts into a private company by acquiring its 5.7 million class A shares at $22 each. Mr. Griffin derailed that plan by offering $36 a share for the class A shares...Mr. Trump's camp sought to dispel any talk that he had backed down or that he could be branded the loser. His advisers said the developer had been mainly interested in keeping the Taj Mahal property all along and that it would be sold back to him at a very attractive price. Moreover, they said, Mr. Trump's class B shares would be acquired by Mr. Griffin at a substantial premium over the $135 a share that Mr. Trump paid. Sources close to Mr. Trump say his total investment in Resorts could yield a profit of $400 million.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/15/business/griffin-wins-resorts-in-deal-with-trump.html
  84. Ok, Atlantic City was mentioned. A special movie to me and my dad. Not necessarily casino related.

  85. @ScarletNumber

    Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991.
     
    Your history of Wynn, Trump, and AC was great, but there is one thing you left out that I find interesting. Trump didn't build the Taj Mahal. It was built by Resorts International, who owned the casino next door. They couldn't finish it, so they sold a majority interest in the company to Trump. A businessman then outbid Trump for the entire company, and the two of them fought it out. They came to a settlement where Trump would own the Taj Mahal and the businessman would own Resorts International. That businessman was none other than Merv Griffin, who made his money creating Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. I laugh at the thought of that old queen outfoxing Trump in Atlantic City.

    Merv definitely outsmarted me on Jeopardy.

  86. @Mister.Baseball
    There's a reason Leno receives high praise from many as a top-tier stand up comic. He has the ability to walk into any room, read the crowd and modify his act accordingly and achieve consistent laughs. The same comics also know that doing a nightly monologue on a major network is difficult, even with a room of writers; and that Leno pulled off something mildly entertaining for so many years speaks of his talent as a stand up comedian.

    Now, as an interviewer? He had a brief window between being a terrible neophyte and an older man visibly disinterested in 99% of his guests where he was serviceable at it. Compared to his peers and some of the acts which have followed, he wasn't all that bad.

    Letterman was once a clever guy making fun of his whole format. Some of those 80s shows and bits (which I only saw after the fact) are really good. But the joke is thin and once Harvey Pekar called him out for being a fraud, and actually visibly angered Letterman, the joke was over. Moving to CBS, he remained for the rest of his career a jilted and bitter entertainer with no point of being in entertainment outside that the hipsters who grew up watching him became the taste-makers and declared him "forever cool".

    Yeah, the Harvey Pekar thing was a thing. Letterman knew that making guests feel uncomfortable would lead to news, if not ratings. Many guests referenced his A-hole ness.

    Moving to CBS, he remained for the rest of his career a jilted and bitter entertainer with no point of being in entertainment outside that the hipsters who grew up watching him became the taste-makers and declared him “forever cool”.

    I think that was the moment when there was a separation of funny and woke. Six months into CBS Letterman just didnt’ have it anymore. And he was never a good standup. Leno from the mid 80s onward was regarded as the premiere stand up. Maybe even before. Not to beat this horse, but watch any Letterman interview, and look at his shoes. I’m not one of those types but you can’t help but see the slip on loafers and light colored socks. Leno has probably never voted for a Republican in his life, but I’d take him in a foxhole over Letterman any day.

  87. @prime noticer
    the entire gambit is retarded. in any serious way, at least. obama and his people, who weaponized the IRS, knew everything there was to know about trump's taxes about 1 day after trump attacked obama. there's nothing in there. how do we know? because the democrats would have known already and used it against him already. as i said about the mueller investigation, they have NOTHING on trump. he's the cleanest president in the history of the united states. not one single person holding any other office has been as examined with an electron microscope as this guy.

    it's very seriously, utterly retarded to think it could be any other way. anybody who thinks the democrats don't know everything in those tax returns already is a clueless schlub.

    of course i understand the not serious reason for all this is to further damage trump. as a recent vdare article points out, nixon was impeached for attempting to do, what obama actually did, for 8 years. and what the democrats are doing now. this stuff is seriously illegal - unless you're a democrat.

    also, once democrats start pulling their political opponent's tax returns, and publishing them in national newspapers, trust in the IRS, and entire income tax paying process, will necessarily plummet. those are supposed to be confidential communications between each private citizen and the government. if there's no expectation that stuff will be kept secret as agreed upon, then people start getting a lot more reluctant to file.

    democrats already circumvented hundreds of years of established law during the mueller investigation, ignoring attorney client privilege. they'll now violate social contracts between the US federal government's tax collecting authority and it's interaction with it's citizens.

    next, perhaps, will be violating medical privacy laws, or any other well established, bedrock grounded legal tradition, like due process, assumption of innocence, or other stupid ideas in the constitution. democrats will ignore any laws when necessary to win, while at the same time trying to force republicans to obey any barely applicable laws they can pull out of thin air.

    Agree!

  88. @ScarletNumber

    Trump built the Taj in 1990 , it went bankrupt in 1991.
     
    Your history of Wynn, Trump, and AC was great, but there is one thing you left out that I find interesting. Trump didn't build the Taj Mahal. It was built by Resorts International, who owned the casino next door. They couldn't finish it, so they sold a majority interest in the company to Trump. A businessman then outbid Trump for the entire company, and the two of them fought it out. They came to a settlement where Trump would own the Taj Mahal and the businessman would own Resorts International. That businessman was none other than Merv Griffin, who made his money creating Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. I laugh at the thought of that old queen outfoxing Trump in Atlantic City.

    True , the Tak was under construction when Trump bought it from Resorts…but Trump owned a controlling interest in Resorts when they started building the Taj…he sold his controlling interest in Resorts to Merv in 1988 and then purchased the Taj from Resorts as part of the deal.

    Mr. Trump, held 94.7 percent of Resorts’ class B shares, giving him 88 percent voting control. He had been trying to turn Resorts into a private company by acquiring its 5.7 million class A shares at $22 each. Mr. Griffin derailed that plan by offering $36 a share for the class A shares…Mr. Trump’s camp sought to dispel any talk that he had backed down or that he could be branded the loser. His advisers said the developer had been mainly interested in keeping the Taj Mahal property all along and that it would be sold back to him at a very attractive price. Moreover, they said, Mr. Trump’s class B shares would be acquired by Mr. Griffin at a substantial premium over the $135 a share that Mr. Trump paid. Sources close to Mr. Trump say his total investment in Resorts could yield a profit of $400 million.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/15/business/griffin-wins-resorts-in-deal-with-trump.html

  89. I expect that while Trump was taking depreciation allowances and strategically writing off losses on dogs to show tax losses, his personal cash flow wasn’t a problem for his trophy wives. The credit wasn’t cut off on either Fifth Avenue or Rodeo Drive.

  90. @anonn
    The obsession with the taxes is not to show that he's not a billionaire, it's to demonstrate that's he's a tax-evading cheat and liar. That 8 or 9 out of 10 years he pays no taxes at all. If the people really knew what the super rich get away with they'd rise up and guillotine the lot of these thieves, red and blue.

    Found the lazy wagie.

    Dude, you have never owned a business. I can tell. You think about taxes like a Bernie Bro.

  91. @prime noticer
    the entire gambit is retarded. in any serious way, at least. obama and his people, who weaponized the IRS, knew everything there was to know about trump's taxes about 1 day after trump attacked obama. there's nothing in there. how do we know? because the democrats would have known already and used it against him already. as i said about the mueller investigation, they have NOTHING on trump. he's the cleanest president in the history of the united states. not one single person holding any other office has been as examined with an electron microscope as this guy.

    it's very seriously, utterly retarded to think it could be any other way. anybody who thinks the democrats don't know everything in those tax returns already is a clueless schlub.

    of course i understand the not serious reason for all this is to further damage trump. as a recent vdare article points out, nixon was impeached for attempting to do, what obama actually did, for 8 years. and what the democrats are doing now. this stuff is seriously illegal - unless you're a democrat.

    also, once democrats start pulling their political opponent's tax returns, and publishing them in national newspapers, trust in the IRS, and entire income tax paying process, will necessarily plummet. those are supposed to be confidential communications between each private citizen and the government. if there's no expectation that stuff will be kept secret as agreed upon, then people start getting a lot more reluctant to file.

    democrats already circumvented hundreds of years of established law during the mueller investigation, ignoring attorney client privilege. they'll now violate social contracts between the US federal government's tax collecting authority and it's interaction with it's citizens.

    next, perhaps, will be violating medical privacy laws, or any other well established, bedrock grounded legal tradition, like due process, assumption of innocence, or other stupid ideas in the constitution. democrats will ignore any laws when necessary to win, while at the same time trying to force republicans to obey any barely applicable laws they can pull out of thin air.

    In my lifetime the Dems have always operated in a system where there are two different systems of law–one for them and their pets, and the other for everyone else. The party has been unified at least since the late 1950s by establishing, framing, and fleshing out a competing, jerry-rigged system of politicized law, entirely in their power and dedicated to demographic war.

    2020 is going to be about one issue:

    The rule of law as Logos (or Gnon or whatever you want to call it) honoring the Most High

    vs

    The rule of law as ethnic/group nepotism, mob rule, weaponized grievance and fuckery, talmudic disputation, and trying to weasel your way around the will of the Most High to prove how clever you are and beat the other guy

    It is literally the WWF smackdown of the millennium: Logos Folk versus those they are never allowed to criticize or even Notice.

    If there’s one thing The Adversary hates, it’s when the Logos Folk master his techniques then defeat him with them. That’s why The Adversary gets so riled up and doubles down on illegal nonsense. Like demanding via his mouthpiece of Congress that the Attorney General of the United States commit crimes to produce information in specifically illegal ways–as determined by laws Congress itself passed.

    All in order that The Adversary might keep the narrative going in his headlines, crawl lines, and Twitterbot streams.

    What amazes me continually is that DJT is even bothering.

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