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From the New York Times:

Torn Over Reopening Economy, Trump Says He Faces ‘Biggest Decision I’ve Ever Had to Make

The president suggested he wanted to move soon, but he also promised to listen to public health officials cautioning against relaxing restrictions prematurely.

Mr. President,in your extremis, there’s a way to finesse this decision so that you don’t have to decide wholly between Yes or No. Instead, say yes to the low risk of infection businesses and say no the the high risk businesses. Encourage American customers to demand more protection from infection and encourage American business to provide more.

 
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  1. Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Danindc
    It’s his biggest. It says so right there in the title.
    , @Rob (London)
    I think you're right, but how many Republican governors will want to go against his instructions? If red states enthusiastically re-open (or stay open, for the ones that haven't been hit hard yet), and suffer from new spikes in infections and deaths, what effect will that have on Trump's prospects?
    , @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    , @Hibernian
    His taking the lead is necessary. He needs to revise his recommendations. He has not issued orders except to the military and the civilian executive departments, AFAIK, and that should continue. The restrictions in Republican states such as Indiana are to a large extent because of his recommendations. Only a few states such as South dakota have held out against the hysteria.
  2. I really wish the president would keep his mouth shut. Since he talked about Hydrochloroquin and now, Zinc as being effective treatments, the MSM has reflexively proclaimed that they aren’t. Of course Trump is right and the mainstream media are putting innocents in harms way due to TDS. Maybe going forward he should take a cue from a classic Seinfeld episode and just say the opposite of what he really means in his press briefings.

    • Replies: @Steve Richter
    what I would like Trump to do is order hospitals and doctors to report daily on what treatments they are providing their virus patients and all of their vitals. Publish that info online. That way the public can see what works best to rid the body of the china virus.
    , @JosephB
    I keep hoping Trump would make a statement like "Drinking 3 quarts of Draino per day could exacerbate COVID symptoms. Don't do it."

    In the meantime, more zinc gluconate for me.
    , @MarkinLA
    He can't win no matter what he does. It seems like there is some central agency or group trying to figure out how to make everything Trump says look bad no matter what it is and all the MSM outlets parrot it within 20 minutes.

    If he hadn't mentioned it, the comments at the press conference would be "Hydrochloroquin seems to be having a good effect at helping patients with COVID-19. Why have you allowed people to die instead of alerting people to this life saving therapy?"
    , @anon
    Doctors were using it and hoarding it. So no one serious cares about TDS.

    Now Peter Navarro has distributed 29,000,000 doses, and if it works, great.

    If not, move on.

    I would guess it doesn't help that much, but maybe zinc does. And they can toss in some more placebos as they go along.

    Some of the other long shot treatments have much worse side effects, are more expensive, or aren't available to scale up.
  3. @Paleo Liberal
    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    It’s his biggest. It says so right there in the title.

  4. According to Pelosi, it’s no big deal.
    https://www.sott.net/article/432302-Criminal-Nancy-Pelosi-claims-theres-no-data-to-prove-small-businesses-need-more-emergency-funds

    But the Republicans are making sure the money is going where needed

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/david-stockman/republicans-are-now-good-for-exactly-nothing/

    EG
    ” $500,000,000 to Museums and Libraries (Who the hell knows how we are going to use it?)

    $720,000,000 to Social Security Admin (But get this – of this, only $200,000,000 is to benefit people. The rest is for admin costs.)

    $25,000,000 for Cleaning supplies for the Capitol Building (Seriously, it’s on page 136)

    Still reading through this crap?

    $7,500,000 to the Smithsonian for additional salaries (Wait a minute, what about the virus?)

    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts (See above)”

    • Replies: @Hibernian

    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts (See above)”
     
    This institution belatedly backed away from its insane decision to furlough musicians after being granted aid, only when the union complained.
  5. O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic …

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him ‘want to hang himself’ as 74-year-old slams ‘nihilistic’ society which respects nothing.

    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to ‘die on stage’.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html

    This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    • Agree: James Speaks
    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    Interesting. When my Millennial girlfriend hears "American Pie" she wants to hang herself--or strangle me for deliberately antagonizing her by playing it.
    , @anonymous
    " vowing instead to ‘die on stage’."

    I don't want to be in that audience...Rodale (sp. ?) was bad enough.
    , @Lot
    Agree.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk
    , @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.
    , @MBlanc46
    I hated that song. I don’t think that he should hang himself, but I do wish that his mother had had a headache the night he was conceived.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't usually support giving in to terroristic threats ...

    ... but, he's right, you know. I've been pushing the Government to Shut Down The Discos! since, like, 1977, and they finally got around to it just last month.

    Happy Easter, iStevers!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmUXntGlqFI
  6. Now that we’re a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.

    Perhaps the answer is somewhere between blind optimism and static retreat. A measured, nuanced approach (as what you offered) would seem the wisest path for a man who seems to battle nuance.

    • Replies: @James Speaks

    Now that we’re a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.
     
    And yet, so many of our leaders are consumed with hind thought and foreplay.
    , @James Speaks

    Now that we’re a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.
     
    And yet, so many of our leaders are consumed with hind thought and foreplay.
  7. @Paleo Liberal
    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    I think you’re right, but how many Republican governors will want to go against his instructions? If red states enthusiastically re-open (or stay open, for the ones that haven’t been hit hard yet), and suffer from new spikes in infections and deaths, what effect will that have on Trump’s prospects?

  8. OT, but I thought this was clever:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/07/coronavirus-ventilators-mississippi-medical-center-charles-robertson/2966719001/

    Old-fashioned Yankee ingenuity isn’t dead (though I doubt Dr. R would like to be called a Yankee…)

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Call it Southern Strategy then. :-)
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Add it to the museum.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1246006807723675649?s=21
  9. Mr. President, you should* stand before the American people and you should* utter this famous quatrain:

    ‘If your lungs are diseased,
    Self-quarantine please;
    If your health is ok,
    Go on about your day!’

    ~ Dr. Theodore Seuss

    * Entitled boomers love the word ‘should’, they love telling young, healthy people how to live their lives

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Be glad you grew up in an era where your elders couldn't beat the crap out of you. In the good old days, 'don't' was the word and the beatings for violating it were frequent and severe. Your Boomer grandparents and Gen X parents rebelled from this and ended up pumping out the sorry undisciplined Gen Snowflake.
    , @Anon
    I’d wager you have one of those big, oversized red and white stripped Cat-in-the-Hat hats.
  10. @SFG
    OT, but I thought this was clever:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/07/coronavirus-ventilators-mississippi-medical-center-charles-robertson/2966719001/

    Old-fashioned Yankee ingenuity isn't dead (though I doubt Dr. R would like to be called a Yankee...)

    Call it Southern Strategy then. 🙂

    • Agree: kikz
  11. As recently mentioned, if he wanted it, this is actually Trump’s biggest opportunity to enact the agenda he originally ran on: re-shoring, border control, clamp down on super-spreaders/predators, America first!

    But he’s too chickensh*t to take it.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    This would also have the perverse side effect of restoring a measure of Constitutionality, if anyone still cares about that.

    • Replies: @Not My Economy
    Yes.

    "Only those businesses who can document the steps they are taking to entirely re-localize their supply chain will be permitted to open. We will audit you against those steps in 6 months. Also, E-verify is now mandatory nationwide due to the virus. If you don't like this, enjoy being shut down and living on 1200 a month."
    , @BannedHipster
    How are the borders not completely closed and all immigration not stopped immediately?

    Mexico has closed their border with the USA and is deporting illegal immigrant Americans. Trump should follow their lead.

    https://www.newsweek.com/mexicans-will-block-southern-border-crossing-again-over-concerns-untested-americans-will-spread-1494572
    , @Lugash

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)
     
    Trump will still need to make some tough choices at the national level. Domestic and foreign air travel, allowing or blocking interstate travel.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    I've been horrified that the UK Government hasn't followed up the lack of protective equipment with a commitment to produce it domestically in future.

    Meanwhile

    Police have apologised after a man was threatened with spray and arrested as he dropped off food for vulnerable family members under lockdown.

    A neighbour used his mobile phone to film the moment a Greater Manchester Police (GMP) officer approached the man outside an address in Fallowfield on Friday.

    The footage shows the man tell the officer he is "picking up a plant at the same time" and then ask him: "Give me a ticket for what? You're a bored guy, there's groups of people all over the place."

    He refuses to give his details to the male officer and is then told he faces arrest for "breaking Covid guidelines" and is told to put his hands on his head. The officer then threatens to spray him if he does not comply.

    When handcuffs are placed on him the man becomes agitated and tells him the cuffs are hurting and pleads to him to "twist that top one around".

    He is then pushed against a car and told to lean over it, to which the man says: "You just keep saying things over and over again, you're not helping, you're not diluting the situation, you're making it worse. Because I come to drop some stuff off."

    A woman is then heard saying to the officer: "In the current situation, in the current pandemic, there's more pressing situations to be dealing with than coming over and bothering somebody going about his business on his own."

    The officer tells the woman: "Listen... you'll be next."
     
    There are some nasty buggers in the police, so they're truly reflecting the society from which they're recruited. Still, as long as they're not racist I guess it's OK. This is the force which was desperately trying to find white grooming gangs not so long ago, anything but target "vulnerable communities".
  12. Trump’s already decided to open the economy; he did weeks ago. But he had to wait until this epic panic blew over.

    I’ll never know what boogeyman the coronavirus represented to the fear-mongers. That is, unless spreading a fear of germs was part of a plan to make people more ethnocentric and nationalistic. In which case, maybe it was worth it.

  13. What will the consequence be for Americans who do not want to take vaccine?

    • Replies: @By-tor
    Yes, the Johns-Hopkins-Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Event 201's and US Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Dr. Anthony Fauci said on CNN that certificates of immunity from the somehow AIDS-infused coronavirus are something being considered before Americans can return to work. Notice: There's little chance of voting our way out of this putch by these tyrannical maniacs.

    https://theduran.com/fauci-proposes-immunity-certificates-to-those-who-have-gotten-over-coronavirus/

  14. But even if Trump announced an end to his advised restrictions , would states like New Jersey and California still keep their residents locked down ? We have no reason to believe that Governor Cuomo will end the Stay at Home order if Trump advises an end to his restrictions. Cuomo may be less likely to open New York if Trump advises him to end the restrictions. Democratic Governors banned hydroxychloroquine because Trump advocated this drug. they may well extend the restrictions if Trump advises an end to the restrictions.

    The Trump administration is not the reason Cuomo locked down New York and sent the National guard to quarantine New Rochelle. Trump did not order the governor of New Jersey to close all the State Parks. Can Trump force Nevada to open all their hotels and casinos ? Can he force Disney to open up their theme parks ? Can he force Cities to allow movie theaters to open again ? Will movie theaters bother to open anyway ?

    The non-binding guidelines issued by Trump to encourage Americans to stay home should be eliminated soon. Hopefully we will have adequate supplies of hydroxychloroquine in May and the governors will then start easing their stay at home orders. We also need Cuomo and other governors to end their bans on hydroxychloroquine so doctors have the freedom to prescribe this promising CV treatment.

    • Replies: @theMann
    Actually, Trump can do every one of those things. It is called enforcing the First Amendment to the Constitution.

    Just remember, every one of the lockdowns are 1) Unconstitutional, therefore illegal 2) immoral 3) and counterproductive, since staying inside is the worst possible response to the seasonal flu\cold\virus.


    Given the grotesquely illegal actions of the political class, medical fraud, medical incompetence, Gigantic deliberate lies on the part of the Media, and the truly catastrophic effects of mass unemployment, I doubt the lawsuits are ever going to stop. Which will be secondary to the rampaging of the Unemployed, coming soon to a city near you.
  15. Laugh . . .drama drama and more drama . . .

    The suspense has me in knots . . .

    an not at all. The crisis after crisis to bolster effectiveness is painfully transparaent an shallow. Tell me when the choice is mad to get real about economic valuations of the economy such tat debt and loans and overhead are not counted as profit or that deficit spending matters or that our trade imbalances are descriptive of hemorrhage or a choice is made to counter balance the health of the country against the health of merely WS, which by any accounting has operated with careless abandon — and that before 2007 nakedness.

    The nobel prize hedging is what it was before the election, after the election to this day . . . in my view a nonstarter.

    I am having a great time watching so called capitalists, libertarians fall of their proverbial foundations of economic policy.

    Being a capitalist is a rare are as being a conservative — we are a shrinking club.

  16. “If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)”

    Hey, States’ Rights Today, States’ Rights Forever!

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    Trump strikes me as someone who will go for it on fourth and long.
  17. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump only needs to instruct Americans on the data.

    #1 While anyone can be infected, mortality is greatly skewed to the elderly. The data across the states and the world is consistent. The median age of those dying is 80, and sometimes higher. Most states do not have any deaths for those under 40.

    #2 At this point in the disease cycle a disproportionate number of infections and deaths are related to health care centers, in particular nursing homes and hospitals. Residents / patients are getting ill and medical and Care staff are getting infected and spreading the disease into the community.

    Trump needs to announce a quarantine program for anyone working in nursing and medical work! Provide significant bonuses and put those on these front lines in quarantine for 4 weeks. Doing this will change everything about Covid-19 infections.

    Trump needs to be bold and data focused. Do that and ending lockdowns is the common sense thing to do.

  18. Did Trump ever issue a nationwide order? I understand everyone is looking to him to make the call, but as far as I know states and cities have made their own decisions.

    I don’t know about Steve’s theory. I can buy that certain businesses are lower risk, but ultimately it is the personal connections, habits, living situation of employees that are the risk factor of the disease. I think it’s exactly like “good schools”. Software engineering is lower risk than meatpacking… imagine that. The only business that I see as inherently high risk is healthcare, which is not up for debate about shutting down.

  19. @Almost Missouri
    As recently mentioned, if he wanted it, this is actually Trump's biggest opportunity to enact the agenda he originally ran on: re-shoring, border control, clamp down on super-spreaders/predators, America first!

    But he's too chickensh*t to take it.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    This would also have the perverse side effect of restoring a measure of Constitutionality, if anyone still cares about that.

    Yes.

    “Only those businesses who can document the steps they are taking to entirely re-localize their supply chain will be permitted to open. We will audit you against those steps in 6 months. Also, E-verify is now mandatory nationwide due to the virus. If you don’t like this, enjoy being shut down and living on 1200 a month.”

    • Agree: UK
  20. He really can’t make the call for individual states, for individual states have different rates of infection. I think he ought to leave this up to the individual governors in each state.

    • Agree: Spud Boy
  21. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:

    One of those strange hinge points in history where backing the wrong horse has serious consequences, eg, Mussolini choosing to ally with Germany rather than Britain, Saddam Hussein’s obstinate stupidity in not backing down over Kuwait, Merkel letting in (the eventual 20 million + bogus ‘refugee’ Asiatics – at least 20 million once chain migration runs its course).

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson’s romping home, (pre plague days), in last December’s UK General Election, was a case of backing the right horse.

    ‘Tis a fine line between triumph and disaster, that ancient Pompeian mosaic of the skull and watchglass perched on a carriage wheel, says it all.

    All I can say is that no politico can argue against morgues full of corpses – a real case of the dead having more vitality than the living.

    • Agree: vhrm
    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
  22. As far as I know Trump never issued a blanket command to ‘close the economy” and therefore he does not need to issue a blanket command to open it either.

    Obviously the federal government does have control over certain issues, for example it can issue “no fly” orders, close down sea and airports, close down government offices, parks, even perhaps federal highways. It can also command the military forces, customs, immigration, TSA, and so on.

    However, on 13th of March, 2020 Trump declared a national state of emergency over coronavirus.

    This allows the President to:

    1. Regulate all commerce and business transactions.
    2. Seize all privately-held gold stores.
    3. Take control of all media in the U.S.
    4. Basically capture all resources and manpower.
    5. Deploy the military inside the United States.
    6. Suspend the government of the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

    On February 15, 2019, President of the United States Donald Trump declared a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States (Proclamation 9844), citing the National Emergencies Act.

    As far as I know, this state of emergency has never been lifted either.

    As things stand, it appears that since we are under a double state of national emergency the President has the right to take such actions as commanding the US oil industry to cut production so as to boost world prices for oil, which would overrule antitrust legistlation.

    No doubt he has appointed a group of wise and judicious men and women to advise him on how such actions might benefit or harm the common weal and indeed the whole world, and merely watches Fox News for light entertainment and amusing polemics after a hard day at work.

    • Replies: @eD
    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.
    , @BenKenobi
    Despite all these "emergency powers" nothing will happen.

    Nothing ever happens.
    , @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1249418405951799309
  23. Either way he’s looking at another impeachment down the road.

  24. Anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    Why not simply:

    —Require masks on public transit. Possibly extend that to other venues.

    —Provide strong incentives for public establishments to provide automatic (no-touch) hand sanitizer dispensers at entrances, outside elevators, and at certain strategic locations inside.

    Wouldn’t that go far in flattening the curve, or even in completely eliminating the virus?

    • Replies: @Hail
    This, and a few other things on the margins (with the operative goal of protecting the vulnerable, the weakest among our people; not destroying the lives of the 98% in a coup d'etat-like nightmare) should have been where the measures stopped in mid-March. Instead, we surrendered to CoronaParanoia and the GreatCoronaDelusion that a maybe-bad-but-alas-unremarkable flu virus was Uncontrolled Ebola or Airborne HIV or the Black Plague.
  25. Michelle Malkin noted that many jobs, in and of themselves, would be low risk but for the work crews traveling together in a vehicle to the work site. Since many of these are ‘essential workers’ ( utility, sanitation, even firemen) it might make sense to have them use their own car for travel or use rental cars. Gas is cheap and the extra cost is a lot less than 3 weeks in ICU.

  26. Another idea would be to open a few states or cities on 4/15, and see what happens to their numbers over the next two weeks. You could do that with the promise that if the number of hospitalizations spikes, you’ll surge in medical help from states that are less affected.

  27. eD says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    As far as I know Trump never issued a blanket command to 'close the economy" and therefore he does not need to issue a blanket command to open it either.

    Obviously the federal government does have control over certain issues, for example it can issue "no fly" orders, close down sea and airports, close down government offices, parks, even perhaps federal highways. It can also command the military forces, customs, immigration, TSA, and so on.

    However, on 13th of March, 2020 Trump declared a national state of emergency over coronavirus.

    This allows the President to:

    1. Regulate all commerce and business transactions.
    2. Seize all privately-held gold stores.
    3. Take control of all media in the U.S.
    4. Basically capture all resources and manpower.
    5. Deploy the military inside the United States.
    6. Suspend the government of the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

    On February 15, 2019, President of the United States Donald Trump declared a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States (Proclamation 9844), citing the National Emergencies Act.

    As far as I know, this state of emergency has never been lifted either.

    As things stand, it appears that since we are under a double state of national emergency the President has the right to take such actions as commanding the US oil industry to cut production so as to boost world prices for oil, which would overrule antitrust legistlation.

    No doubt he has appointed a group of wise and judicious men and women to advise him on how such actions might benefit or harm the common weal and indeed the whole world, and merely watches Fox News for light entertainment and amusing polemics after a hard day at work.

    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yup. New York City's rent control apparatus was established in 1943 as a "temporary war time measure."
    , @Jack Armstrong
    According to the ‘pedia, there are over 30 NSOEs still in effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States

    An example:

    November 3, 1997 (Clinton) - Blocking Sudanese Government Property and Prohibiting Transactions With Sudan (Executive Order 13067)– established a trade embargo against Sudan, specifically targeting the Sudanese government.
     
    Don’t know what to think of that. I’m surprised that Sudan even has a government.
    , @Mr. Anon
    There is still an emergency executive order in effect concerning the Islamic Revolution in Iran, which happened over 40 years ago.
    , @Hail

    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.
     
    A lot of CoronaDissidents including the great Dr. Ron Paul are pointing to this. All too few are listening.

    All flu viruses pass. But the long-term losses of rights, the normalization and empowerment of media-directed and media-enforced paranoias that have the power to destroy people's lives (as by fiat), the radical empowering of Fauci-like "burn down the village in order to save it" commissars, the rise of "turn in your neighbors"-ism that has been reported, they may not pass so easily, and will have net effects far worse than the virus. There are big winners here, and none of them are us the people.

    I see no better, more convenient label for this series of maneuvers than: "The Corona Coup D'etat of 2020."

  28. @Almost Missouri
    As recently mentioned, if he wanted it, this is actually Trump's biggest opportunity to enact the agenda he originally ran on: re-shoring, border control, clamp down on super-spreaders/predators, America first!

    But he's too chickensh*t to take it.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    This would also have the perverse side effect of restoring a measure of Constitutionality, if anyone still cares about that.

    How are the borders not completely closed and all immigration not stopped immediately?

    Mexico has closed their border with the USA and is deporting illegal immigrant Americans. Trump should follow their lead.

    https://www.newsweek.com/mexicans-will-block-southern-border-crossing-again-over-concerns-untested-americans-will-spread-1494572

  29. Steve Sailer provides the perfect advice.

  30. eD says:

    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn’t planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I’m not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don’t think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn’t have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil’s constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the “deep state”, neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @utu
    ...the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth.... - Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.
    , @Jonathan Mason
    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.

    I am inclined to that point of view.

    But the problem is that we have become so expecting of continued lifespan, that as a Medicare society we find normal death hard to take.

    My parents were born in 1923 and 1925 and by 1944 both were orphans. My paternal grandmother died of TB before she was 30, (and she was a doctor's daughter) which would be unthinkable today.

    The Bible says the days of man are threescore years and ten, and that is the way it has always been until the last generation or two.

    I have a friend--I call him a friend, because I have chatted with him for 15 minutes or once or twice a week for the last couple of years, but we are not friend-friends.

    He is 70 years old and fit as a fiddle. He has a thriving dental practice and owns a large block of gold, which he obtained for free by means of removing gold dental fillings that the owners did not want to keep! He owns a number of patents. So he is an intelligent and ingenious fellow at the peak of his powers.

    Last time I saw him was 11 days ago, and he was expressing scepticism about corona virus and saying that most people did not have enough vitamin D3 and zinc and that if he was afflicted, he knew exactly how to dose himself to drive the virus out of his cells. (He can prescribe medications.)

    He was wearing a mask, gown, and gloves long before corona virus came along.

    Yesterday I heard that he is in the ICU in Gainesville with corona virus.

    I am as scared as shit now, even though I am two years younger. I want the government to suspend the constitution for ever to keep me alive and see my seven year old daughter graduate high school and not grow up as an orphan as my parents did.
    , @BB753
    Michael E. Jones is on the war path because of the closing of churches. He says the covid-19 scare is the same scam as Aids, perpetrated by the same actors.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/11385457/e-michael-jones-on-the-coronavirus-and-t_1
    , @Rosie

    The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want.
     
    The thing is, how do we know that's not the case? I suspect it will take years of number-crunching to sort out. Icertainly understand everyone's skepticism given establishment hostility to Trump but the question is whether the authorities did the right thing given the information they had available at the time, not whether subsequent events have vindicated them or not.

    At the end of the day, I got an extended (and much-needed) vacation from my life, and now I'm waiting for a big fat check that will probably go straight into the pockets of a local home improvement service. That's hardly let-them-eat-cake tier indifference and tyranny.

    All that said, I don't run a business, so maybe I just have the knowledge to understand people's hardships.

    , @Corvinus
    "Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet."

    Who are these "actual qualified researchers" you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    "The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want."

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites--whoever this group is in your mind--plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    Besides, I thought that the Covid-19 pandemic would finally bring globalism and immigration to its knees, and the Jewish banking cabal will come to a screeching halt!

    Thanks, E. Michael Jones!

    https://culturewars.com/news/the-coronavirus-and-the-culture-war


    “Just as the Black Death, which carried off 40 percent of Europe’s population in the mid-14th century, signaled the end of the Middle Ages in de Mattei’s eyes, so the coronavirus pandemic signals the end of the American Empire and the era of Globalization, as practiced by oligarchs like George Soros. Globalization is both the perpetrator and ultimate victim of the current crisis because it “destroys space and pulverizes distances.” But because God is in charge of history, Globalization finds itself subjected to the cunning of reason which has created “social distance, the isolation of the individual and quarantine,” all of which are “diametrically opposed to the ‘open society’ hoped for by George Soros.” De Mattei believes that the pandemic is bringing an end to “the world without borders.”
     
    "One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along."

    You are completely overgeneralizing here.

    "As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference."

    Which has been to the detriment of the America citizen. You can't be THAT ignorant...

    , @guest007
    The idea that Covid019 is the same as the average flu is an insult the first responders and healthcare who are the front lines. Quoting some unnamed researchers while ignoring the many posts on social media from nurses and physicians who are actually caring for patients is an insult to those care providers.

    There was never a flu that killed 2,000 people on a single day. Unless one can provide a site that the deaths in NYC are not really occuring, then people can assume that this is just another post from some insane truther.
    , @Mike1
    Many tens of millions of people not interacting has modified the initial hit. Is that really hard to understand?!
    The most frightening thing about this disease so far is that people really are as ignorant as they appear to be.
    , @anonymous jew
    Declaring the lockdown a success will depend in large part on the fate of Sweden. If Sweden doesn't change course it will set an example for the world that is too big to ignore. (Japan and Korea are also examples, but differences such as cultural practices, electronic tracking etc make them distinguishable from the West).
  31. @eD
    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.

    Yup. New York City’s rent control apparatus was established in 1943 as a “temporary war time measure.”

  32. The UK has a pretty good study of what are high risk activities and what are not. This is what we were meant to be following. A clear set of guidelines formed from that 2011 document with adjustments based on recent experience would be excellent.

  33. Once the data shows that sick and old people are no longer dying, we can all get back to business.

    • LOL: vhrm
  34. @Almost Missouri
    As recently mentioned, if he wanted it, this is actually Trump's biggest opportunity to enact the agenda he originally ran on: re-shoring, border control, clamp down on super-spreaders/predators, America first!

    But he's too chickensh*t to take it.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    This would also have the perverse side effect of restoring a measure of Constitutionality, if anyone still cares about that.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    Trump will still need to make some tough choices at the national level. Domestic and foreign air travel, allowing or blocking interstate travel.

    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    Interstate travel is permitted , as are all domestic flights and most international flight are not prohibited....you can still get a flight every European nation , no flights are prohibited for American citizens.

    You can book a flight today into Europe. Americans are free to drive into other states and move into other states and fly into other states today.

    Not really a tough choice to ban flights into China , since China had banned flights from America.
  35. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Was Sailer right?

  36. @Jonathan Mason
    As far as I know Trump never issued a blanket command to 'close the economy" and therefore he does not need to issue a blanket command to open it either.

    Obviously the federal government does have control over certain issues, for example it can issue "no fly" orders, close down sea and airports, close down government offices, parks, even perhaps federal highways. It can also command the military forces, customs, immigration, TSA, and so on.

    However, on 13th of March, 2020 Trump declared a national state of emergency over coronavirus.

    This allows the President to:

    1. Regulate all commerce and business transactions.
    2. Seize all privately-held gold stores.
    3. Take control of all media in the U.S.
    4. Basically capture all resources and manpower.
    5. Deploy the military inside the United States.
    6. Suspend the government of the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

    On February 15, 2019, President of the United States Donald Trump declared a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States (Proclamation 9844), citing the National Emergencies Act.

    As far as I know, this state of emergency has never been lifted either.

    As things stand, it appears that since we are under a double state of national emergency the President has the right to take such actions as commanding the US oil industry to cut production so as to boost world prices for oil, which would overrule antitrust legistlation.

    No doubt he has appointed a group of wise and judicious men and women to advise him on how such actions might benefit or harm the common weal and indeed the whole world, and merely watches Fox News for light entertainment and amusing polemics after a hard day at work.

    Despite all these “emergency powers” nothing will happen.

    Nothing ever happens.

    • Replies: @Uilleam yr Alban
    Nothing ever happens. Until it does.
  37. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    …the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth…. – Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    • Replies: @res

    the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth…. – Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.
     
    I still believe that left unchecked this would have ended up somewhere between the 1918 and 1968 flu pandemics (which includes your estimate towards the lower end). So flu is a reasonable comparison. Though comparison to a "typical" flu season is not IMHO. I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen. The lower end would not. Where the exact threshold should be I expect to be a topic of vigorous debate over the weeks, months, and perhaps years ahead.

    I gave more details in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814212
    This comment links to a study of annual flu mortality in the US since 1900:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814426

    https://ajph.aphapublications.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/apha/journals/content/ajph/2008/ajph.2008.98.issue-5/ajph.2007.119933/production/images/large/doshi_f2_rev3.jpeg
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die."

    Is that you, Dr. Scarfy?
    , @Inquiring Mind
    That sounds about right, that this virus is a "five-bagger."

    I think the shutdowns were justified, but people don't have to be such scolds (cough, Mr. Unz, cough) about it.

    The shutdowns are attenuating this to "no worse than the flu", so spare me all of the "soaring" and "skyrocketing" and "grim milestone" and "deaths in US exceed Italy" and "you have no idea how bad this is" drama (I am following the guidelines, as a reward, can anyone get "Corvinus" to self-attenuate as well?). It's bad enough being stuck at home to have to listen to the TV and read all of this on the Internet.

    , @Paul Mendez
    Even 250,000 dead (mostly old and sick) out of a population of 330,000,000 is sad but not that big a deal. About 2,800,000 die each year. So a 10% bump that will probably contribute to a drop in subsequent years.
  38. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.

    I am inclined to that point of view.

    But the problem is that we have become so expecting of continued lifespan, that as a Medicare society we find normal death hard to take.

    My parents were born in 1923 and 1925 and by 1944 both were orphans. My paternal grandmother died of TB before she was 30, (and she was a doctor’s daughter) which would be unthinkable today.

    The Bible says the days of man are threescore years and ten, and that is the way it has always been until the last generation or two.

    I have a friend–I call him a friend, because I have chatted with him for 15 minutes or once or twice a week for the last couple of years, but we are not friend-friends.

    He is 70 years old and fit as a fiddle. He has a thriving dental practice and owns a large block of gold, which he obtained for free by means of removing gold dental fillings that the owners did not want to keep! He owns a number of patents. So he is an intelligent and ingenious fellow at the peak of his powers.

    Last time I saw him was 11 days ago, and he was expressing scepticism about corona virus and saying that most people did not have enough vitamin D3 and zinc and that if he was afflicted, he knew exactly how to dose himself to drive the virus out of his cells. (He can prescribe medications.)

    He was wearing a mask, gown, and gloves long before corona virus came along.

    Yesterday I heard that he is in the ICU in Gainesville with corona virus.

    I am as scared as shit now, even though I am two years younger. I want the government to suspend the constitution for ever to keep me alive and see my seven year old daughter graduate high school and not grow up as an orphan as my parents did.

    • Replies: @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    You had a kid at 61?!?
    , @HammerJack
    You had a kid in your 60s?? What did you think the odds were of personally seeing her through high school, not to mention college?
    , @Paul Mendez
    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.
  39. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    Michael E. Jones is on the war path because of the closing of churches. He says the covid-19 scare is the same scam as Aids, perpetrated by the same actors.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/11385457/e-michael-jones-on-the-coronavirus-and-t_1

  40. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want.

    The thing is, how do we know that’s not the case? I suspect it will take years of number-crunching to sort out. Icertainly understand everyone’s skepticism given establishment hostility to Trump but the question is whether the authorities did the right thing given the information they had available at the time, not whether subsequent events have vindicated them or not.

    At the end of the day, I got an extended (and much-needed) vacation from my life, and now I’m waiting for a big fat check that will probably go straight into the pockets of a local home improvement service. That’s hardly let-them-eat-cake tier indifference and tyranny.

    All that said, I don’t run a business, so maybe I just have the knowledge to understand people’s hardships.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    All that said, I don’t run a business, so maybe I just have the knowledge to understand people’s hardships.
     
    I'm in the same boat. I have job security. I'm "essential."

    But I am seeing my favorite local, small businesses in danger of perishing because of rules that allow their larger competitors to continue. And that is obvious bullshit.

    Happy Easter.
  41. My own guess is that Trump will do a good job making this decision, or, really, decisions.

    The important thing isn’t that he gets it right at first, but that he adjusts his decisions to the facts at hand, as they come up.

    The thing I don’t like about most experts, and which has certainly impaired them here, is their rigidity in dealing with new and unexpected facts. They seem to have only too much commitment to ideas they’ve developed that may well not apply. They don’t seem to be fast, agile thinkers.

    Trump, though, for better and, sometimes, for worse, shoots from the hip by personality. He seems to change his mind on a dime if the facts themselves change. He ad libs all the time.

    Given the deep uncertainties about even the most basic facts here, there’s little anyone can do but engage in a long trial and error period as we try to recover from this. We need someone who can lead us down the best path of trial and error, making course corrections as facts arise. There isn’t one big decision, nor should there be; there will be many decisions. We need good jazz players, not good classical musicians.

    My expectation is that Trump will be well suited to this.

    • Agree: Rosie, Coemgen, AnonAnon
    • Replies: @HammerJack
    Largely persuasive, except for the fact that trump seldom thinks before he speaks. By this method he subverts his own potential, not to mention his own power.
  42. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    “Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.”

    Who are these “actual qualified researchers” you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    “The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want.”

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites–whoever this group is in your mind–plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    Besides, I thought that the Covid-19 pandemic would finally bring globalism and immigration to its knees, and the Jewish banking cabal will come to a screeching halt!

    Thanks, E. Michael Jones!

    https://culturewars.com/news/the-coronavirus-and-the-culture-war

    “Just as the Black Death, which carried off 40 percent of Europe’s population in the mid-14th century, signaled the end of the Middle Ages in de Mattei’s eyes, so the coronavirus pandemic signals the end of the American Empire and the era of Globalization, as practiced by oligarchs like George Soros. Globalization is both the perpetrator and ultimate victim of the current crisis because it “destroys space and pulverizes distances.” But because God is in charge of history, Globalization finds itself subjected to the cunning of reason which has created “social distance, the isolation of the individual and quarantine,” all of which are “diametrically opposed to the ‘open society’ hoped for by George Soros.” De Mattei believes that the pandemic is bringing an end to “the world without borders.”

    “One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.”

    You are completely overgeneralizing here.

    “As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference.”

    Which has been to the detriment of the America citizen. You can’t be THAT ignorant…

    • Replies: @Hibernian

    Who are these “actual qualified researchers” you speak about?
     
    A former Rockefeller University faculty member, for one.
    , @Hibernian
    Actual qualified researcher:

    Knut Wittkowski (30 years of recognized expertise in epidemiology; for almost twenty years he was the Head of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design, Center for Clinical & Translational Science at Rockefeller University in New York; PhD, Computer Science, Univ. of Stuttgart, 1985; PhD, Medical Biometry, Univ. of Tübingen, 1993)
    , @Mr. Anon

    Who are these “actual qualified researchers” you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?
     
    Here's twelve to start with, you yammering nitwit:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/12-experts-questioning-coronavirus-panic/5707532


    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites–whoever this group is in your mind–plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?
     
    The elites are - just that- the elites. The wealthy. The people who own everything, you prating ass.

    He is not paranoid. You are just stupid.

  43. @Jonathan Mason
    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.

    I am inclined to that point of view.

    But the problem is that we have become so expecting of continued lifespan, that as a Medicare society we find normal death hard to take.

    My parents were born in 1923 and 1925 and by 1944 both were orphans. My paternal grandmother died of TB before she was 30, (and she was a doctor's daughter) which would be unthinkable today.

    The Bible says the days of man are threescore years and ten, and that is the way it has always been until the last generation or two.

    I have a friend--I call him a friend, because I have chatted with him for 15 minutes or once or twice a week for the last couple of years, but we are not friend-friends.

    He is 70 years old and fit as a fiddle. He has a thriving dental practice and owns a large block of gold, which he obtained for free by means of removing gold dental fillings that the owners did not want to keep! He owns a number of patents. So he is an intelligent and ingenious fellow at the peak of his powers.

    Last time I saw him was 11 days ago, and he was expressing scepticism about corona virus and saying that most people did not have enough vitamin D3 and zinc and that if he was afflicted, he knew exactly how to dose himself to drive the virus out of his cells. (He can prescribe medications.)

    He was wearing a mask, gown, and gloves long before corona virus came along.

    Yesterday I heard that he is in the ICU in Gainesville with corona virus.

    I am as scared as shit now, even though I am two years younger. I want the government to suspend the constitution for ever to keep me alive and see my seven year old daughter graduate high school and not grow up as an orphan as my parents did.

    You had a kid at 61?!?

    • Replies: @anon
    You had a kid at 61?!?

    Apparently so. What of it?
    President Tyler fathered children in his 60's, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.
    , @Redneck farmer
    The man's a baller.
  44. It’s lose-lose for President Trump.
    If he stays the course and continues the lockdown, the economy shall sink him.
    If he reopens the economy, the surge in globalism-virus deaths shall sink him.
    Half-measures sound sensible, but they’ll satisfy no one – and today’s Americans are anything but sensible.

    From the Greatest Generation to the Weakest Generation in just 80 years. Once, Americans had the fortitude to endure privation and win wars. Now, they can’t even endure 30 days in their homes.
    Once, America could land a man on the Moon and return him safely to the Earth. Now, we can’t even send a man into low Earth orbit. But hey, we’ve got Facebook and Twitter, so it’s all good!

    • Troll: Hippopotamusdrome
  45. @eD
    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.

    According to the ‘pedia, there are over 30 NSOEs still in effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States

    An example:

    November 3, 1997 (Clinton) – Blocking Sudanese Government Property and Prohibiting Transactions With Sudan (Executive Order 13067)– established a trade embargo against Sudan, specifically targeting the Sudanese government.

    Don’t know what to think of that. I’m surprised that Sudan even has a government.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    I used to work at a university law library, and one of my responsibilities was as the clerk of government documents. These things came in periodically as House Documents, and I was charged with creating records for each of them, transcribing the Superintendent of Documents (SUDOC) numbers onto them, and shelving them in the stacks. Often, when the Deep State was particularly charged up with tormenting some other nation with these National Emergencies (seemingly this being their actual purpose, as they were almost never responding to any kind of genuine threat to the nation) they would just keep renewing them time after time.

    Reading Senate Hearings, another category of GovDocs for which I had responsibility, was all too often an unedifying experience, as they were demonstrative of the mediocrity and mendacity of the legislators. At least I got paid for this.
  46. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: U.S.A. has the sad distinction of having most number of cases and most deaths in the world. Total death count passed past Italy and may touch 20K today. The curve may be flattening, but shows no evidence of downward slope. We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time."

    Fake numbers because CDC and Drs. Poochy and Scarfy ordered hospitals to count every stiff as death by kungflu.

    #CoronaHoax
  47. Why do people hate me? Is it because I demand all the bling of civilization for none of the work? Because I kidnap innocent people into an impenetrable punishment system? Is it because I mishandled a plague, was caught on video deliberately spreading it, tried to grab all the protective gear of others to sell back to them, and then tried to cover for that by persecuting foreigners living in my territory?
    Naaaaaaaaaaaw, what it is, y’see, is these Russian hackers …

    The sentiments reflected in 4chan’s forum, researchers said, also were linked to conspiracy theories surrounding Asian people and coronavirus. One claim suggested that coronavirus is a bioweapon created by China’s government and transmitted by Chinese people.

    I missed that one, but there are hours of video of Chinese people spitting on groceries, doorknobs, and people, there’s Chinese people caught on camera buying up PPE from before it was known to be necessary, and there’s the now undisputed deadly dishonesty of the government, so, yeah, what about any of that is theoretical?

    “If we see violence [sic] and hateful rhetoric stemming from subcultural communities, we need to be able to track these communications in real time to see what they’re talking about,” said Alex Goldenberg, an analyst at the institute and one of the authors of the study.

    Though the racist sentiments may begin in smaller subcultures on 4chan, Goldenberg said they also make their way onto mainstream social media platforms, like Twitter, Instagram and Reddit.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/us/sinophobic-racism-rise-coronavirus-research-trnd/index.html

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    The ethnocentric Han cries out about racism as he calls you a stupid round-eye gwailo.
    , @Anonymous
    Misery loves company. When the Chinese realized the scale of this epidemic they tried to spread it to as many foreigners as possible so China wouldn't suffer the hit alone.

    It's similar to the old stories of AIDS-infected homosexuals taking jobs in hospital blood banks and deliberately contaminating the supplies.

    "It's your problem too damn it."
  48. @Lugash

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)
     
    Trump will still need to make some tough choices at the national level. Domestic and foreign air travel, allowing or blocking interstate travel.

    Interstate travel is permitted , as are all domestic flights and most international flight are not prohibited….you can still get a flight every European nation , no flights are prohibited for American citizens.

    You can book a flight today into Europe. Americans are free to drive into other states and move into other states and fly into other states today.

    Not really a tough choice to ban flights into China , since China had banned flights from America.

  49. There are opportunity costs to every choice. The lockdowns save lives, but also cost lives, more as time goes by. Lives saved from Covid19 prevention, suppression of influenza and other contagious diseases, fewer industrial and road accidents, and the like. Lives lost to less access to the health system for nonCovid19 issues, mental illness and suicide, drug addiction, depressed per capita income, impoverishment, homelessness, reduced education, and so on – some in the near term and more from knock-on effects over years.

    The worst mistake Trump could make would be to assign autistic economists to calculate the dollar costs and benefits of policy change, and try to sell that to the American people. It was already their use of the stupid Kaldor-Hicks criterion that led to the hollowing out of America by shifting production from the US to China. Kaldor-Hicks says that you should choose the policy that maximizes total country income, regardless of the distribution of the gain. The China sell-out did make America richer – but a few percent got very rich and most people were made worse off. Economists justify Kaldor-Hicks by pointing out that the winners could compensate the losers, but, ha ha, that never happens in real life.

    A much better metric, and one congenial to public relations, is life-life trade-offs. How many lives are saved by lockdown policy A, and how many lives are lost as a result of policy A; compared to policy B, etc.

    Epidemiologists are sophisticated about the comparative lives saved by alternative health policies, but are ignorant about and utterly silent about comparative lives lost in the entire system beyond the narrow contagious-disease domain. I think this is what bothers people intuitively about the shutdowns — they sense that tradeoff, but no one in the public arena is articulating it in a defensible manner – because they know that to make the argument in dollar terms would be odious and unpopular. Appropriate, wise, defensible, and more popular policies can be devised by the metric of life-life tradeoff.

    I want to scream this from the rooftops.

  50. We’re a country with a unique approach to individual freedom. That’s why we’re OK with 480,000 people a year dying from smoking; over 100,000 from other drugs and alcohol. That’s why we allow guns, giant SUVs to all, mountaineering and other things that serve no utilitarian purpose.

    How about this: let individuals decide for themselves. Government’s only role should be in facilitating that decision making. Allow job protection, extended leave, extend unemployment etc. But if an 80-year-old leukemia patient wants to attend a ball game, so be it. Maybe they’ve been given one month to live and their decision is more rational than any bureaucrat could know. That’s the whole point of our freedoms: we know what’s in our own best interest and should have the freedom to decide.

    The lockdown Nazis have taken over the world like the invasion of the body snatchers. I sort of get that – I’ve never had much faith in human nature. But I’m surprised by the reaction of so many here.

    Yes, if we let people decide for themselves more may die, and that’s OK. Don’t we still have our Constitution?

    • Agree: AnonAnon
    • Replies: @MB
    Beat me to it.
    Let individuals, localities, states decide.
    It's called freedom. If you don't want to go to work, the store, church, stay home. Lay low.
    Others might decide differently.
    It really isn't constitutionally the president's job to say yea or nay.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Spot on, I.J!

    (Did you change your handle back?)

  51. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    The idea that Covid019 is the same as the average flu is an insult the first responders and healthcare who are the front lines. Quoting some unnamed researchers while ignoring the many posts on social media from nurses and physicians who are actually caring for patients is an insult to those care providers.

    There was never a flu that killed 2,000 people on a single day. Unless one can provide a site that the deaths in NYC are not really occuring, then people can assume that this is just another post from some insane truther.

    • Troll: Hippopotamusdrome
    • Replies: @Anon87
    2 points:

    All I'm seeing of first responders are asinine Tik Tok videos of singing and dancing like morons. Not exactly MASH units.

    Aren't all deaths being recorded as corona deaths in NYC for the time being?
    , @Federalist

    first responders and healthcare who are the front lines.
     
    The front lines. LOL.
  52. This was never the way to deal with Corona in the first place. Trump does not have a difficult decision because another thirty days of this will demonstrate the the panic buyers were not panicing and that the theatre really is on fire and will burn to the ground. You don’t balance production, distribution, and finance on the head of a pin and then pull the pin. The Deep State is the majic that will deliver the worst of two options at the same time, permanent Corona and permanent depression.

  53. Here in Denmark we have had a partial lockdown for a month now.

    As I understand it, the mean incubation period for coronavirus is about five days. The time from the first symptoms till you are back on your feet – or not – is from a few days to several weeks.

    Now, if lockdown really is the silver bullet it is touted to be, should we not be seeing a more distinct drop in the number of new cases by now? To my layman eyes, the curves seem to follow the same bell-shape as “normal” respiratory infections seasons.

    My WAG is that common sense (avoid close contact and large gatherings) would have yielded the same results but without the many negative and costly side effects. Time will tell…

    • Replies: @Thoughts
    There's an episode of the X-Files called the 'Red Museum' which is a great analogy for Denmark/Sweden.

    Sweden is the Control Group and Denmark is the Experimental Group (or vice versa)

    I'd make a bet this was a conscious decision at the upper levels of power between the two nations or direct orders from the EU.
  54. @Jonathan Mason
    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.

    I am inclined to that point of view.

    But the problem is that we have become so expecting of continued lifespan, that as a Medicare society we find normal death hard to take.

    My parents were born in 1923 and 1925 and by 1944 both were orphans. My paternal grandmother died of TB before she was 30, (and she was a doctor's daughter) which would be unthinkable today.

    The Bible says the days of man are threescore years and ten, and that is the way it has always been until the last generation or two.

    I have a friend--I call him a friend, because I have chatted with him for 15 minutes or once or twice a week for the last couple of years, but we are not friend-friends.

    He is 70 years old and fit as a fiddle. He has a thriving dental practice and owns a large block of gold, which he obtained for free by means of removing gold dental fillings that the owners did not want to keep! He owns a number of patents. So he is an intelligent and ingenious fellow at the peak of his powers.

    Last time I saw him was 11 days ago, and he was expressing scepticism about corona virus and saying that most people did not have enough vitamin D3 and zinc and that if he was afflicted, he knew exactly how to dose himself to drive the virus out of his cells. (He can prescribe medications.)

    He was wearing a mask, gown, and gloves long before corona virus came along.

    Yesterday I heard that he is in the ICU in Gainesville with corona virus.

    I am as scared as shit now, even though I am two years younger. I want the government to suspend the constitution for ever to keep me alive and see my seven year old daughter graduate high school and not grow up as an orphan as my parents did.

    You had a kid in your 60s?? What did you think the odds were of personally seeing her through high school, not to mention college?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    I was more worried about living long enough so that she would be able to remember me.

    Now she is old enough to question my intelligence and make fun of me.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that's the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

  55. @Almost Missouri
    As recently mentioned, if he wanted it, this is actually Trump's biggest opportunity to enact the agenda he originally ran on: re-shoring, border control, clamp down on super-spreaders/predators, America first!

    But he's too chickensh*t to take it.

    If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)

    This would also have the perverse side effect of restoring a measure of Constitutionality, if anyone still cares about that.

    I’ve been horrified that the UK Government hasn’t followed up the lack of protective equipment with a commitment to produce it domestically in future.

    Meanwhile

    Police have apologised after a man was threatened with spray and arrested as he dropped off food for vulnerable family members under lockdown.

    A neighbour used his mobile phone to film the moment a Greater Manchester Police (GMP) officer approached the man outside an address in Fallowfield on Friday.

    The footage shows the man tell the officer he is “picking up a plant at the same time” and then ask him: “Give me a ticket for what? You’re a bored guy, there’s groups of people all over the place.”

    He refuses to give his details to the male officer and is then told he faces arrest for “breaking Covid guidelines” and is told to put his hands on his head. The officer then threatens to spray him if he does not comply.

    When handcuffs are placed on him the man becomes agitated and tells him the cuffs are hurting and pleads to him to “twist that top one around”.

    He is then pushed against a car and told to lean over it, to which the man says: “You just keep saying things over and over again, you’re not helping, you’re not diluting the situation, you’re making it worse. Because I come to drop some stuff off.”

    A woman is then heard saying to the officer: “In the current situation, in the current pandemic, there’s more pressing situations to be dealing with than coming over and bothering somebody going about his business on his own.”

    The officer tells the woman: “Listen… you’ll be next.”

    There are some nasty buggers in the police, so they’re truly reflecting the society from which they’re recruited. Still, as long as they’re not racist I guess it’s OK. This is the force which was desperately trying to find white grooming gangs not so long ago, anything but target “vulnerable communities”.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    Along with a mask of course, White men should carry at all times one of those little skullcap.

    Put it on if any police nearby and they will back away.
    , @Wielgus
    During lockdowns they are among the few allowed out and about, and this power must be going to the heads of certainly those of them who were authoritarians to start with.
  56. @candid_observer
    My own guess is that Trump will do a good job making this decision, or, really, decisions.

    The important thing isn't that he gets it right at first, but that he adjusts his decisions to the facts at hand, as they come up.

    The thing I don't like about most experts, and which has certainly impaired them here, is their rigidity in dealing with new and unexpected facts. They seem to have only too much commitment to ideas they've developed that may well not apply. They don't seem to be fast, agile thinkers.

    Trump, though, for better and, sometimes, for worse, shoots from the hip by personality. He seems to change his mind on a dime if the facts themselves change. He ad libs all the time.

    Given the deep uncertainties about even the most basic facts here, there's little anyone can do but engage in a long trial and error period as we try to recover from this. We need someone who can lead us down the best path of trial and error, making course corrections as facts arise. There isn't one big decision, nor should there be; there will be many decisions. We need good jazz players, not good classical musicians.

    My expectation is that Trump will be well suited to this.

    Largely persuasive, except for the fact that trump seldom thinks before he speaks. By this method he subverts his own potential, not to mention his own power.

  57. As others here note, since this is a federal republic with 50 states, the “lock-downs” are all being done by state governors. Of course the feds can mandate things like air travel and even whether or not and how federally operated agencies conduct their business. And places like banks.

    What I find of interest is that there is a duality about China. The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters). So “China is the Model” for dealing with the pandemic that started there. For the most part, the US has followed them though not as ruthlessly.

    Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told. Again no outside verification of China’s announcement; but a large number of non Chinese still live there and are not totally censored like their citizens in most cases. So they seem to be back to work.

    So if “China is the Model” then why are the Usual Media Suspects ragging on Trump because he and others, including many Dem state governors and some politicians of that stripe, want to get back to work ASAP? The Chinese have dealt with this longer than we have. If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life, with some add-ons, like face masks and reasonable social distancing, why can’t we? How much longer do we need to wait?

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer. So if China is to be copied and trusted, what’s the holdup? If not, how do we know the Chinese lock-down model even works?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told..."

    Actually, China recently in one province reimposed a second lockdown.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264413/coronavirus-news-china-henan-hubei-wuhan-covid-19-pandemic-second-wave-lockdown

    Now, in Wuhan, there is extensive testing despite relaxing its two-month lockdown. The U.S. does not have that capability as now.

    "If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life..."

    That has yet to happen yet. You are mischaracterizing the situation.

    "The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters)."

    That would be Fake News on your part.
    , @Corvinus
    "Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told..."

    Actually, China recently in one province reimposed a second lockdown.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264413/coronavirus-news-china-henan-hubei-wuhan-covid-19-pandemic-second-wave-lockdown

    Now, in Wuhan, there is extensive testing despite relaxing its two-month lockdown. The U.S. does not have that capability as now.

    "If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life..."

    That has yet to happen yet. You are mischaracterizing the situation.

    "The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters)."

    That would be Fake News on your part.
    , @Hail

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer.
     
    Gov. Northam, the full-blown CoronaPanic-pusher, is the same governor who came out in favor of post-birth abortions.

    On the theme of babies that Gov. Northam wants to make sure never get the chance -- Going on all past experience, his long-term shutdown orders, into summer and maybe fall, with their economic dislocation and ruination/serious-disruption of many-a prime-age, young, working-age man and woman's lives, will end up sapping the fertility rate, netting very likely more lost people, the statistically-should-have-been-born-but-never-were potential people, than the novel coronavirus' true victims will even come close to. This, friends, is CoronaParanoia in action.

    Governor Northam has converted to the CoronaReligion; its angry god demands its sacrifices in blood. Easter, which is tomorrow, is our greatest religious holiday and is about life, resurrection; but Gov. Northam and the rest of the clown-car governors have reverted to a more-primitive, blood sacrifice religion to appears their new god.

  58. I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.
     
    Hah. Well said. I for one will never celebrate the 4th of July again. Not that I did much anyway - it kind of became a dead letter after 911. But to do so now would be ridiculous.

    In 1776, the revolutionaries whom we honor on July 4th risked, and even sacrificed, their lives for liberty. Americans in 2020 sacrificed their liberty for an extra week on a ventillator.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    May I use this line on my blog, Federalist? (with attribution, of course)


    Your reply too, Mr. Anon. OK?

    , @The Alarmist
    They're already planning to cancel Independence Day in some parts of the US:

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/north-carolina/articles/2020-04-07/north-carolina-town-cancels-fourth-of-july-celebration

    https://www.timesheraldonline.com/2020/03/25/vallejos-fourth-of-july-parade-cancelled-because-of-covid-19/

    https://www.wect.com/2020/04/07/southport-cancels-its-fourth-july-festival/

    ad nauseum ...

    Democrat plans for Trump White House ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OLD6jeyBXw
  59. Here’s an interesting story out of France:

    French Police Turn Back Private Jet, Forcing Brits To Abandon Holiday Plans

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/france-forces-private-jet-turn-around-forcing-brits-abandon-lux-holiday

    French police have forced a private jet carrying a party of 10 would-be holidaymakers to return to London.

    It’s unclear from the story if these are NetJetters, execs with access to the company plane, or people wealthy enough to own the plane itself. There were seven men in their 40s and 50s and three women in their early 20s. Based on that I’m guessing we’re somewhere in NetJet/VPs with access to the company plane territory.

    Even so, they tried to make some phone calls and the police still ejected them from the country. So, it appears our new global police state is going to control folks fairly far up the chain.

    Of course, the immivader Africans and Muslims that are outside the system are still free to come and go as they please.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    My understanding is that the men were Eastern European. It has the air of successful coke wholesalers taking three 'escorts' for bit of R&R.

    Paper of Record


    "A source in French police said the organiser of the trip – a Croatian national working in finance and estate agency in the UK – had 'paid for everything'.

    He reportedly said to French police that 'I have money, let's talk' when they confronted him on the plane."
     

  60. Steve,

    I think your notion that there are safe and unsafe businesses may based on incorrect assumptions about superspreading events.

    I haven’t actually looked into the matter, but just from paying attention to the evening news, of the events in news reports that resulted in a large spread of infections in Japan, they are ALL social events–parties, concerts, dance clubs, etc.–which fits with the comments from the Austrian in the last post who said that spreading requires prolonged contact of 15 minutes or more. Note also that group social events are likely to result in people having to vocalize strongly in order to overcome background noise.

    Superspreading is probably a real thing. There is a paper in PubMed that found that 19% of those infected with the flu produced much more virus particles than others. That is a nice number because it basically fits the 80/20 model. There is also an animal study on finches that shows that those with higher levels of stress hormones survived viral infection at low rates and produced more viral particles.

    However, I don’t think we really know what causes superspreading. Is it social behavior? Is it the environment? Genetics? Is it even the people themselves, or are superspreading events a reflection of changes in the virus itself?

    Anyhow, I feel pretty good about going into public to conduct business. I’m guessing it’s less important to shut down certain types of businesses than for certain people to avoid parties and for everyone to be cognizant of their own hygiene.

  61. I think the constraints on the decisions that must be made are clearer than most people believe.

    First, the numbers must go down from their current peak by a significant amount before a decision to open up the economy to a degree can be made. I think that, from that time forward, the numbers can’t be allowed to go up by an appreciable amount; if they do, measures will be reimposed until they peak again and come down. The absolute numbers will be less important than the bends in the curve.

    There is no grand moral right or wrong here. Ultimately, there will be a tradeoff between lives lost to the disease and the misery of the unemployed. There’s no right or wrong answer to that question in terms of absolute numbers; it is imponderable. We will be guided instead by relative numbers, whether they are going up or down. The bends in the curve will allow us ultimately to find a set point of tolerance for this tradeoff.

  62. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    Many tens of millions of people not interacting has modified the initial hit. Is that really hard to understand?!
    The most frightening thing about this disease so far is that people really are as ignorant as they appear to be.

    • Replies: @Dmon
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&country=ITA+SWE+GBR+USA

    One of these things is not like the others. Hint - it's not Italy.
  63. “I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.”

    You can leave your house now. Feel free to take a drive or take a walk. It’s just that a great number of citizens in our fine nation, by way of their representatives in government at the local, state, and federal level, have enacted measures to safeguard our health. Now, if you feel differently, why not engage in civic activism? You have at your disposal the freedom of assembly. Employ it. Realize, however, that there are consequences, positive and negative, for exercising that liberty. In addition, we will have a better grasp of the “economic damage” to our economy a year from now as a result of Covid-19 protocols.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    No, you stupid asshat, governors issued ukases based on the unfounded fears of unelected technocrats.

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Feel free to take a drive or take a walk.

     

    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/Coronavirus-UK-1261279.jpg?r=1585321425395
  64. @eD
    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.

    There is still an emergency executive order in effect concerning the Islamic Revolution in Iran, which happened over 40 years ago.

  65. @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    Interesting. When my Millennial girlfriend hears “American Pie” she wants to hang herself–or strangle me for deliberately antagonizing her by playing it.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Interesting indeed. I personally hated the song, but back in the day it was useful in that it quickly got the girls in the mood to do shots.
  66. @Corvinus
    "I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom."

    You can leave your house now. Feel free to take a drive or take a walk. It's just that a great number of citizens in our fine nation, by way of their representatives in government at the local, state, and federal level, have enacted measures to safeguard our health. Now, if you feel differently, why not engage in civic activism? You have at your disposal the freedom of assembly. Employ it. Realize, however, that there are consequences, positive and negative, for exercising that liberty. In addition, we will have a better grasp of the "economic damage" to our economy a year from now as a result of Covid-19 protocols.

    No, you stupid asshat, governors issued ukases based on the unfounded fears of unelected technocrats.

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.

    • Thanks: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @adreadline
    Here's a WUSA9 news item (as in, a second-hand source) reporting what one can and cannot do during the Virginia stay-at-home order (to give one example). According to it, one is allowed to

    Engag(e) in outdoor exercises, such as walking, hiking, running, or biking while abiding by CDC social distancing guidelines.
     

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.
     
    Now, breathe into the bag... count to ten... here, squeeze the stress ball... I'll get a napkin and a glass of water for you...
  67. @Muggles
    As others here note, since this is a federal republic with 50 states, the "lock-downs" are all being done by state governors. Of course the feds can mandate things like air travel and even whether or not and how federally operated agencies conduct their business. And places like banks.

    What I find of interest is that there is a duality about China. The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters). So "China is the Model" for dealing with the pandemic that started there. For the most part, the US has followed them though not as ruthlessly.

    Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told. Again no outside verification of China's announcement; but a large number of non Chinese still live there and are not totally censored like their citizens in most cases. So they seem to be back to work.

    So if "China is the Model" then why are the Usual Media Suspects ragging on Trump because he and others, including many Dem state governors and some politicians of that stripe, want to get back to work ASAP? The Chinese have dealt with this longer than we have. If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life, with some add-ons, like face masks and reasonable social distancing, why can't we? How much longer do we need to wait?

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer. So if China is to be copied and trusted, what's the holdup? If not, how do we know the Chinese lock-down model even works?

    “Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told…”

    Actually, China recently in one province reimposed a second lockdown.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264413/coronavirus-news-china-henan-hubei-wuhan-covid-19-pandemic-second-wave-lockdown

    Now, in Wuhan, there is extensive testing despite relaxing its two-month lockdown. The U.S. does not have that capability as now.

    “If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life…”

    That has yet to happen yet. You are mischaracterizing the situation.

    “The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters).”

    That would be Fake News on your part.

  68. @SFG
    OT, but I thought this was clever:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/07/coronavirus-ventilators-mississippi-medical-center-charles-robertson/2966719001/

    Old-fashioned Yankee ingenuity isn't dead (though I doubt Dr. R would like to be called a Yankee...)

    Add it to the museum.

  69. @Muggles
    As others here note, since this is a federal republic with 50 states, the "lock-downs" are all being done by state governors. Of course the feds can mandate things like air travel and even whether or not and how federally operated agencies conduct their business. And places like banks.

    What I find of interest is that there is a duality about China. The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters). So "China is the Model" for dealing with the pandemic that started there. For the most part, the US has followed them though not as ruthlessly.

    Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told. Again no outside verification of China's announcement; but a large number of non Chinese still live there and are not totally censored like their citizens in most cases. So they seem to be back to work.

    So if "China is the Model" then why are the Usual Media Suspects ragging on Trump because he and others, including many Dem state governors and some politicians of that stripe, want to get back to work ASAP? The Chinese have dealt with this longer than we have. If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life, with some add-ons, like face masks and reasonable social distancing, why can't we? How much longer do we need to wait?

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer. So if China is to be copied and trusted, what's the holdup? If not, how do we know the Chinese lock-down model even works?

    “Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told…”

    Actually, China recently in one province reimposed a second lockdown.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264413/coronavirus-news-china-henan-hubei-wuhan-covid-19-pandemic-second-wave-lockdown

    Now, in Wuhan, there is extensive testing despite relaxing its two-month lockdown. The U.S. does not have that capability as now.

    “If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life…”

    That has yet to happen yet. You are mischaracterizing the situation.

    “The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters).”

    That would be Fake News on your part.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  70. @Federalist
    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.

    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.

    Hah. Well said. I for one will never celebrate the 4th of July again. Not that I did much anyway – it kind of became a dead letter after 911. But to do so now would be ridiculous.

    In 1776, the revolutionaries whom we honor on July 4th risked, and even sacrificed, their lives for liberty. Americans in 2020 sacrificed their liberty for an extra week on a ventillator.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    As Benjamin Franklin said:

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety...
    , @The Alarmist
    Yeah, about those ventilator thingies ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaq8HoEROU

    The problem with the Western World today is that it believes it can cheat death with pills and machines, when the best it can hope for ... at least for the foreseeable future ... is to delay it. It doesn't help that we talk about excess deaths, because in the long run nobody gets out alive.
  71. Hail says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Steve,

    Why not simply:

    —Require masks on public transit. Possibly extend that to other venues.

    —Provide strong incentives for public establishments to provide automatic (no-touch) hand sanitizer dispensers at entrances, outside elevators, and at certain strategic locations inside.

    Wouldn’t that go far in flattening the curve, or even in completely eliminating the virus?

    This, and a few other things on the margins (with the operative goal of protecting the vulnerable, the weakest among our people; not destroying the lives of the 98% in a coup d’etat-like nightmare) should have been where the measures stopped in mid-March. Instead, we surrendered to CoronaParanoia and the GreatCoronaDelusion that a maybe-bad-but-alas-unremarkable flu virus was Uncontrolled Ebola or Airborne HIV or the Black Plague.

  72. @eD
    There is sort of a big elephant in the room as to ending the lockdown.

    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the "its just the flu" crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet. Its unclear if this how thing was an amazing example of mass hysteria, a drill to prepare for the real epidemic that will happen in the future, that got way out of hand, or something more sinister. But governments are now faced with the realization that the world economy was just shut down because someone sneezed.

    So even if this wasn't planned this way originally, there will be a strong incentive to continue the lockdowns permanently, to shield government officials from pubic anger.

    Another possibility would be to 9-11 this, meaning lift some of the restrictions, but not all of them to keep the stuff they want to shut down permanently shut down. So we would see morning commutes to offices resume but the bars and churches will both remain closed. I'm not sure what would happen with the schools in this scenario, my wife just got word that there are no plans to reopen the schools where I live at least until September.

    However, if the elites really wanted to climb down from the tree (I don't think they do, but we will see), you release a figure one week that no one that week has died from the virus, it doesn't have to be accurate, that the lockdown was successful in defeating the virus, and now it will end and everything can reopen. The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want. Everyone is relieved and forgets the whole thing happen. But I think for something like this to work, our rulers have to really declare victory, and resist the temptation to be cute and only reopen the parts of civil society that they like. I think the resumption of in person church services is the key indicator, followed by the bars.

    As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike Trump, the Brazilian president was skeptical from the beginning and maintained his skepticism in public opinion, criticizing the lockdown, even criticizing governors from his own party. It made no difference whatsoever, Brazil locked own anyway. Brazil's constitution is modeled on that of the USA, and the needed powers were held by the state governors and the Brazilian version of the "deep state", neither of which a civilian federal president has any control over.

    Declaring the lockdown a success will depend in large part on the fate of Sweden. If Sweden doesn’t change course it will set an example for the world that is too big to ignore. (Japan and Korea are also examples, but differences such as cultural practices, electronic tracking etc make them distinguishable from the West).

    • Replies: @Hail
    As of last report, Sweden is doing fine and both deaths and cases are declining.

    Sweden sees just 77 new deaths from coronavirus and number of new infections drops by a quarter to just 544 as nation continues to resist lockdown
     
    You're right that Sweden is good evidence that the destructive, full-on shutdowns were wrong, always were wrong, unnecessary. So bizarre it all is that the "Corona Coup D'Etat" narrative cannot be dismissed so easily.

    OTOH, the words of a sage of old:


    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
     
  73. Here’s an anecdote from a UCLA ER doctor. He said in a meeting that there was a big spike in “coughing” as a reason for being hospitalized, their chief complaint. (When a person is admitted to a hospital, the forms require a “chief complaint”.) This occurred in December of last year. This could be checked by other hospitalists or data scientists.

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...
  74. @utu
    ...the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth.... - Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth…. – Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    I still believe that left unchecked this would have ended up somewhere between the 1918 and 1968 flu pandemics (which includes your estimate towards the lower end). So flu is a reasonable comparison. Though comparison to a “typical” flu season is not IMHO. I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen. The lower end would not. Where the exact threshold should be I expect to be a topic of vigorous debate over the weeks, months, and perhaps years ahead.

    I gave more details in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814212
    This comment links to a study of annual flu mortality in the US since 1900:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814426

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Interesting graphs. Thanks for the reference.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen.
     
    The problem isn't even just the "level" of the shutdowns but their character.

    In states run by Democrats, abortions are legal while church is frowned upon. And Lowes and Home Depot are allowed to remain open while local garden stores are forced into shut down. There is nothing that can justify the arbitrary and senseless nature of much of this shutdown.
  75. Hail says: • Website
    @eD
    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    Governments, both national and state, proclaimed that they had all sorts of dictatorial powers going back, in most cases, to World War 2 and these laws and orders were never removed from the books. They were just used so rarely, in the interest of allowing a civil society, that people just forgot they existed. One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along.

    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.

    A lot of CoronaDissidents including the great Dr. Ron Paul are pointing to this. All too few are listening.

    All flu viruses pass. But the long-term losses of rights, the normalization and empowerment of media-directed and media-enforced paranoias that have the power to destroy people’s lives (as by fiat), the radical empowering of Fauci-like “burn down the village in order to save it” commissars, the rise of “turn in your neighbors”-ism that has been reported, they may not pass so easily, and will have net effects far worse than the virus. There are big winners here, and none of them are us the people.

    I see no better, more convenient label for this series of maneuvers than: “The Corona Coup D’etat of 2020.”

    • Agree: Testing12
    • Replies: @Wielgus
    Truman declared a state of emergency of some kind in December 1950 when China joined in the Korean War. As far as I know it was never rescinded.
  76. @YetAnotherAnon
    I've been horrified that the UK Government hasn't followed up the lack of protective equipment with a commitment to produce it domestically in future.

    Meanwhile

    Police have apologised after a man was threatened with spray and arrested as he dropped off food for vulnerable family members under lockdown.

    A neighbour used his mobile phone to film the moment a Greater Manchester Police (GMP) officer approached the man outside an address in Fallowfield on Friday.

    The footage shows the man tell the officer he is "picking up a plant at the same time" and then ask him: "Give me a ticket for what? You're a bored guy, there's groups of people all over the place."

    He refuses to give his details to the male officer and is then told he faces arrest for "breaking Covid guidelines" and is told to put his hands on his head. The officer then threatens to spray him if he does not comply.

    When handcuffs are placed on him the man becomes agitated and tells him the cuffs are hurting and pleads to him to "twist that top one around".

    He is then pushed against a car and told to lean over it, to which the man says: "You just keep saying things over and over again, you're not helping, you're not diluting the situation, you're making it worse. Because I come to drop some stuff off."

    A woman is then heard saying to the officer: "In the current situation, in the current pandemic, there's more pressing situations to be dealing with than coming over and bothering somebody going about his business on his own."

    The officer tells the woman: "Listen... you'll be next."
     
    There are some nasty buggers in the police, so they're truly reflecting the society from which they're recruited. Still, as long as they're not racist I guess it's OK. This is the force which was desperately trying to find white grooming gangs not so long ago, anything but target "vulnerable communities".

    Along with a mask of course, White men should carry at all times one of those little skullcap.

    Put it on if any police nearby and they will back away.

  77. @J.Ross
    Why do people hate me? Is it because I demand all the bling of civilization for none of the work? Because I kidnap innocent people into an impenetrable punishment system? Is it because I mishandled a plague, was caught on video deliberately spreading it, tried to grab all the protective gear of others to sell back to them, and then tried to cover for that by persecuting foreigners living in my territory?
    Naaaaaaaaaaaw, what it is, y'see, is these Russian hackers ...

    The sentiments reflected in 4chan's forum, researchers said, also were linked to conspiracy theories surrounding Asian people and coronavirus. One claim suggested that coronavirus is a bioweapon created by China's government and transmitted by Chinese people.
     
    I missed that one, but there are hours of video of Chinese people spitting on groceries, doorknobs, and people, there's Chinese people caught on camera buying up PPE from before it was known to be necessary, and there's the now undisputed deadly dishonesty of the government, so, yeah, what about any of that is theoretical?

    "If we see violence [sic] and hateful rhetoric stemming from subcultural communities, we need to be able to track these communications in real time to see what they're talking about," said Alex Goldenberg, an analyst at the institute and one of the authors of the study.

    Though the racist sentiments may begin in smaller subcultures on 4chan, Goldenberg said they also make their way onto mainstream social media platforms, like Twitter, Instagram and Reddit.
     
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/us/sinophobic-racism-rise-coronavirus-research-trnd/index.html

    The ethnocentric Han cries out about racism as he calls you a stupid round-eye gwailo.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I am kind of sympathetic to the normie idea that we should suspend our Constitutional rights to accommodate Jewish mytho-historical claims because in the most denied denialist version they did undoubtedly suffer. The control group outcome demonstrating that we should never yield one inch on our rights, and the thing unbenighted sympathetic normies did not see coming, is that right behind the Jew waited patiently an infinite queue of peoples who never suffered at that level, but demand the same privilege. (Which is funny, because normally those people can't queue patiently.) The exemption from criticism and the sacralization (and the making into a legal matter) of a Great Humiliation is not a Jewish thing, it's an Earthian thing.
  78. @guest007
    The idea that Covid019 is the same as the average flu is an insult the first responders and healthcare who are the front lines. Quoting some unnamed researchers while ignoring the many posts on social media from nurses and physicians who are actually caring for patients is an insult to those care providers.

    There was never a flu that killed 2,000 people on a single day. Unless one can provide a site that the deaths in NYC are not really occuring, then people can assume that this is just another post from some insane truther.

    2 points:

    All I’m seeing of first responders are asinine Tik Tok videos of singing and dancing like morons. Not exactly MASH units.

    Aren’t all deaths being recorded as corona deaths in NYC for the time being?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >singing and dancing are not exactly ...
    Seriously though check out the original book and the Altman film.
    In fact, it's got a part interesting to race realists, a great example of clumsy propaganda aging poorly and exposing sloppy thinking of a period. In the earlier part of the civil rights era, before the Gratitude Riots, there was this liberal faith article that blacks would smoothly assimilate white society and not, like, freak out and try to kill everyone. Most of the book MASH has that subversive semi-secret ring of truth (which contributed to its popularity) but there's an aberrantly clumsy and unrealistic conversation in which a Negro doc and a Southern Boy (I think played in the movie by Tom Skerritt) agree over and over with each other -- not about how race ain't nothin but a color, but about how neither whites nor blacks have any reason to be violently angry at each other.
    , @guest007
    If the only thing you find are tik tok videos you must not be looking very hard. There are many stories of being with patients while they die from Covid-10.

    And no, not all deaths in NYC are being recorded as Covid-19 deaths. That is a myth created by truther trolls. Of course, if one does not care how many people die from Covid-19, it makes sense to minimize the deaths and call healthcare workers liars.
  79. Anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:

    WTF. There are good little sheep on both coasts still cowering in fear in lock down mode.

    Ignorance leads to slavery.

    Meanwhile my entire state has largely disobeyed the stay-at-home order and jumped toward outright normalcy after DR BIRX ADMITTED THE COVID DEATH STATS ARE PHONEY BALONEY PLASTIC BANANA early last week.

    Newsflash: She admitted it, you gullible doomerz. Anyone who isn’t a lazy slob can check the CDC classification instructions for themselves and see just how preposterously inflated any “covid-19 death” claims are. By design. By a wink wink nod nod bureaucratic directive.

    Of course lefties don’t watch Trump’s pressers and they have no idea that Birx spilled the frigging beans. They cower in a state of ignorant fear. They think covid is airborne! They think it kills children! They think surfers should be arrested by coast guard patrols!

    FUCK THESE IGNORANT ASSHOLES. It’s the same people who believed the Russia Hoax the Impeachment Hoax and every idiotic false flag event in history.

  80. Hail says: • Website
    @Muggles
    As others here note, since this is a federal republic with 50 states, the "lock-downs" are all being done by state governors. Of course the feds can mandate things like air travel and even whether or not and how federally operated agencies conduct their business. And places like banks.

    What I find of interest is that there is a duality about China. The left liberal media swallows CCCP propaganda whole hog (as some do here, including Chinese paid posters). So "China is the Model" for dealing with the pandemic that started there. For the most part, the US has followed them though not as ruthlessly.

    Now China for the past couple of weeks is back in business for the most part. So we are told. Again no outside verification of China's announcement; but a large number of non Chinese still live there and are not totally censored like their citizens in most cases. So they seem to be back to work.

    So if "China is the Model" then why are the Usual Media Suspects ragging on Trump because he and others, including many Dem state governors and some politicians of that stripe, want to get back to work ASAP? The Chinese have dealt with this longer than we have. If they and their hundreds of millions of people, mostly crammed into crowded cities, can safely resume normal life, with some add-ons, like face masks and reasonable social distancing, why can't we? How much longer do we need to wait?

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer. So if China is to be copied and trusted, what's the holdup? If not, how do we know the Chinese lock-down model even works?

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer.

    Gov. Northam, the full-blown CoronaPanic-pusher, is the same governor who came out in favor of post-birth abortions.

    On the theme of babies that Gov. Northam wants to make sure never get the chance — Going on all past experience, his long-term shutdown orders, into summer and maybe fall, with their economic dislocation and ruination/serious-disruption of many-a prime-age, young, working-age man and woman’s lives, will end up sapping the fertility rate, netting very likely more lost people, the statistically-should-have-been-born-but-never-were potential people, than the novel coronavirus’ true victims will even come close to. This, friends, is CoronaParanoia in action.

    Governor Northam has converted to the CoronaReligion; its angry god demands its sacrifices in blood. Easter, which is tomorrow, is our greatest religious holiday and is about life, resurrection; but Gov. Northam and the rest of the clown-car governors have reverted to a more-primitive, blood sacrifice religion to appears their new god.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    That guy is creepy. I actually think they are satanic or something - they actually make decisions that ruin the joy and purpose out of life for average people. I used to think it was just the side effects of misguided liberal policies, but it seems clear now that they actually want to make us suffer.

    Post Birth abortion is just evil - murder of a defenseless infant. I'm pro choice in the first trimester but post birth abortion is Satanic.
  81. @guest007
    The idea that Covid019 is the same as the average flu is an insult the first responders and healthcare who are the front lines. Quoting some unnamed researchers while ignoring the many posts on social media from nurses and physicians who are actually caring for patients is an insult to those care providers.

    There was never a flu that killed 2,000 people on a single day. Unless one can provide a site that the deaths in NYC are not really occuring, then people can assume that this is just another post from some insane truther.

    first responders and healthcare who are the front lines.

    The front lines. LOL.

    • Replies: @guest007
    How else would who describe an emergency department in Brooklyn where every person walking in has to be assumed to be positive for Covid-19 and requires the care providers to wear PPE that they do not normally wear.
  82. @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    You had a kid at 61?!?

    You had a kid at 61?!?

    Apparently so. What of it?
    President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course."

    And he produced 15 in total. Two of his grandkids are still living today.
    , @Wielgus
    So did Charlie Chaplin, although his relationships and marriages with much younger women were controversial.
    , @ben tillman

    President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.
     
    And he has two living grandsons.
  83. @Snowgrass
    Now that we're a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.

    Perhaps the answer is somewhere between blind optimism and static retreat. A measured, nuanced approach (as what you offered) would seem the wisest path for a man who seems to battle nuance.

    Now that we’re a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.

    And yet, so many of our leaders are consumed with hind thought and foreplay.

    • Disagree: James Speaks
  84. @Snowgrass
    Now that we're a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.

    Perhaps the answer is somewhere between blind optimism and static retreat. A measured, nuanced approach (as what you offered) would seem the wisest path for a man who seems to battle nuance.

    Now that we’re a month into this, we have the benefit of hindsight and forethought.

    And yet, so many of our leaders are consumed with hind thought and foreplay.

    • Agree: James Speaks
  85. Sweden is the example to follow. If it hasn’t been said already, and if there haven’t been changes of which I am not aware, please forgive me. The costs of this whole thing far outweigh the benefits, and it is well past time to put the panic behind us.

    Sweden’s curve is virtually identical to ours in the US, yet they have practiced the kind of nuanced measures Steve is now advocating. Maybe this should have been done by every country from the beginning.

    Click the link and then scroll down and study the curves people!

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/#001

    This is just one, little comment that might get lost in the many, but I wish I could shout it. My wife and I think about how this virus, and possible mutations, will most likely still be around after all this fuss. I’m wearing face masks and safety glasses and undressing in the basement and showering when I bother to go buy something. Only two times, because we don’t really need to, but we think of the others not so prepared.

    Maybe we have flattened the curve and gone over the rollercoaster peak of the curve for now — but that leaves the virus out there, and we could catch it in the future. Meanwhile, millions of people (but not us, fortunately) are unable to pay their bills and will end up in hock to the usual suspects. Every.Single.Time.

    Better, perhaps, I don’t know, to have let this thing run its course, those of us getting sick whose role it was to do so.

    Quarantines make sense. Sheltering weak, susceptible people makes sense. Even Steve’s sensible suggestion now that we avoid big crowd events makes sense. But destroying, killing, suffocating your entire world for this one, stupid thing is worse that wrong. It only leaves those of us who didn’t catch it vulnerable to get it later, to live with that thought indefinitely.

    Stupid.

    • Agree: Hail
  86. Anecdotally speaking, it looks like a lot of us people out here in flyover country had the disease in January and have developed herd immunity. A lady doctor at a hospital on the South Side of Chicago tests 500 people a day for antibody and finds 30 to 50 percent positive results.

    Should I ask why more is not being made of this? All due respect to Ron Unz and Dr. Cody, it’s probable that California is in the same situation. I’ll answer the question. There’s no constituency for the possibility of pre-existing immunities.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Southside of Chicago is part of Fly Over Land?
  87. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    Liberals are fussing because they’re bearing the burden of the deaths. Covid-19 is hitting our bigger cities harder, and they are filled with Democratic voters. Liberal politicians realize they’re seeing voters and supporters die. Liberals are terrified of Covid-19 because they don’t want to anger their voters. Cities cannot afford to keep their voting base afloat economically because most of them have little cash, and can’t even pay pensions. They can’t prevent their citizens from dying from Covid-19 except by drastic action. They can’t prevent their hospitals from being overwhelmed except by drastic quarantine.

    Our cities depend on the US Federal government to bail out their citizens financially. Liberals politicians want this cash without any ties to Trump as the benefactor. Liberals intend to use any more bailout packages as a chance to create more liberal legislation on the back of a pandemic. If they want to play politics, I say Trump should open up the economy again–quietly–and let cities take the brunt. He should dump the decision on big city mayors. Cities aren’t going to vote for him in 2020 anyway. They’re going to see either their death rates spike and hospitals crushed, or they’ll become poor from losing jobs. But if the government can’t give people money without Democratic strings attached, then it’s time to stop coddling cities and their huge masses of liberal voters. Let them take their losses–either in people or money. Trump should force big city mayors to make that choice, so any decision made by big city mayors will stick to big city Democratic mayors, and they’ll take the blame for the mess afterwards.

    Frankly, we’d have herd immunity in 1 month if we just let Covid-19 happen. We should have done this anyway, instead of trying to away hide from life and its burdens.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico

    "We should have done this anyway..."
     
    It is interesting how many people say this now but for some reason it never occurred to them to say it at the beginning of March. Hmm.

    I would welcome people producing links to where people were making these arguments a month or 6 weeks ago. But as I recall nobody was paying much attention. Including the doctors I work with.

    I feel differently every other day. But my feel today is that we (the US) could get away with under 1.5 million confirmed infections and 60,000 dead by June 1st. The numbers are trending that way. Then, whether it is warranted or not the lockdown will begin to lift mid-May. 5 years from now we will have forgotten about it as a nation like we did the Iraq War, Bin-Laden, and the 2008 finance meltdown. People will forget what year this happened.

    Other days it feels like the end of the world.
  88. “Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer.”

    Hail, for Governors Newsom, Northtam, and the rest it really only comes down to who will take the fall, them, or the Bad Orange Man. Someone is going to have to be the bad guy, and those governors are smart enough to ensure they ain’t him.

    When Trump finally “reopens the economy” they will have their boogeyman. These brave governors, the good guys, can then claim they did their utmost to save every possible life. With some truth to it, they will say they were forced to reopen by the heartless, cruel, killer in the White House.

  89. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    This disease poses zero (0) threat to children or adults of reproductive age.

    Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.

    When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.

    “But if one obese boomer’s life can be saved by ruining ALL of our children’s lives…” doesn’t fly. Shame on Steve and Greg Cochran.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @AnonAnon

    Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.

    When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.

    “But if one obese boomer’s life can be saved by ruining ALL of our children’s lives…” doesn’t fly. Shame on Steve and Greg Cochran.
     
    I’m out of Agrees but I agree 1000%.
    , @Corvinus
    "Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone."

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism. Besides, Chicken Little, there are benchmarks. Let us make gather data in 3 month increments. In one year, we shall find out more clearly if your doom and gloom scenario pans out.

    "When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point."

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.
  90. @Corvinus
    "I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom."

    You can leave your house now. Feel free to take a drive or take a walk. It's just that a great number of citizens in our fine nation, by way of their representatives in government at the local, state, and federal level, have enacted measures to safeguard our health. Now, if you feel differently, why not engage in civic activism? You have at your disposal the freedom of assembly. Employ it. Realize, however, that there are consequences, positive and negative, for exercising that liberty. In addition, we will have a better grasp of the "economic damage" to our economy a year from now as a result of Covid-19 protocols.

    Feel free to take a drive or take a walk.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.

    Like I said, feel free to take a drive or a walk...or even bike.

    Biking is up 52% over bridges in New York City.

    Biking is up an average of 151% on trails in Philadelphia.

    Park attendance is up 30% to 50% in the most popular state parks in Maine, although many have closed visitor centers, camping, and restroom facilities.

    Nationwide, trail usage has increased nearly 200% compared to last year, according to the Rails to Trails Conservancy.
  91. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    Mr. President, you should* stand before the American people and you should* utter this famous quatrain:

    'If your lungs are diseased,
    Self-quarantine please;
    If your health is ok,
    Go on about your day!'

    ~ Dr. Theodore Seuss

    * Entitled boomers love the word 'should', they love telling young, healthy people how to live their lives

    Be glad you grew up in an era where your elders couldn’t beat the crap out of you. In the good old days, ‘don’t’ was the word and the beatings for violating it were frequent and severe. Your Boomer grandparents and Gen X parents rebelled from this and ended up pumping out the sorry undisciplined Gen Snowflake.

  92. @Mr Mox
    Here in Denmark we have had a partial lockdown for a month now.

    As I understand it, the mean incubation period for coronavirus is about five days. The time from the first symptoms till you are back on your feet - or not - is from a few days to several weeks.

    Now, if lockdown really is the silver bullet it is touted to be, should we not be seeing a more distinct drop in the number of new cases by now? To my layman eyes, the curves seem to follow the same bell-shape as "normal" respiratory infections seasons.

    My WAG is that common sense (avoid close contact and large gatherings) would have yielded the same results but without the many negative and costly side effects. Time will tell...

    There’s an episode of the X-Files called the ‘Red Museum’ which is a great analogy for Denmark/Sweden.

    Sweden is the Control Group and Denmark is the Experimental Group (or vice versa)

    I’d make a bet this was a conscious decision at the upper levels of power between the two nations or direct orders from the EU.

    • Replies: @anonymous jew
    If there is some kind of Illuminati this is the last thing they would want. If Sweden's laissez faire policy succeeds it will set an example that will embarrass the world's elites. (And then Sweden will be overrun by Muslims, but I digress...)
  93. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Here's an interesting story out of France:

    French Police Turn Back Private Jet, Forcing Brits To Abandon Holiday Plans

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/france-forces-private-jet-turn-around-forcing-brits-abandon-lux-holiday


    French police have forced a private jet carrying a party of 10 would-be holidaymakers to return to London.
     
    It's unclear from the story if these are NetJetters, execs with access to the company plane, or people wealthy enough to own the plane itself. There were seven men in their 40s and 50s and three women in their early 20s. Based on that I'm guessing we're somewhere in NetJet/VPs with access to the company plane territory.

    Even so, they tried to make some phone calls and the police still ejected them from the country. So, it appears our new global police state is going to control folks fairly far up the chain.

    Of course, the immivader Africans and Muslims that are outside the system are still free to come and go as they please.

    My understanding is that the men were Eastern European. It has the air of successful coke wholesalers taking three ‘escorts’ for bit of R&R.

    Paper of Record

    “A source in French police said the organiser of the trip – a Croatian national working in finance and estate agency in the UK – had ‘paid for everything’.

    He reportedly said to French police that ‘I have money, let’s talk’ when they confronted him on the plane.”

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    I beg to differ. Of course they were daughters of the older men, out for a holiday.
  94. The New York Metro area will NEVER be able to re-open absent Wuhan-China-style government intervention (which will never happen.)

    The smart move is to re-open the South, the Sunbelt, and the Intermountain West and to develop policies that will allow these states to enforce strong quarantine and isolation policies against the mass exodus that will be coming from the NY Metro as it collapses into chaos and pandemonium.

  95. @HammerJack
    You had a kid in your 60s?? What did you think the odds were of personally seeing her through high school, not to mention college?

    I was more worried about living long enough so that she would be able to remember me.

    Now she is old enough to question my intelligence and make fun of me.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.
     
    https://media.tenor.com/images/a4e5e356fd534096442f47ab50a233a8/tenor.gif
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.
     
    The law of mortality has not been revoked.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you have some issues you need to come to terms with. I would recommend reexamining your casual dismissal of religion and God.

    There are plenty of theological sources I could pass on, all of them online, in the public domain, and free.
    , @HammerJack
    Thanks....good to know!
  96. @YetAnotherAnon
    I've been horrified that the UK Government hasn't followed up the lack of protective equipment with a commitment to produce it domestically in future.

    Meanwhile

    Police have apologised after a man was threatened with spray and arrested as he dropped off food for vulnerable family members under lockdown.

    A neighbour used his mobile phone to film the moment a Greater Manchester Police (GMP) officer approached the man outside an address in Fallowfield on Friday.

    The footage shows the man tell the officer he is "picking up a plant at the same time" and then ask him: "Give me a ticket for what? You're a bored guy, there's groups of people all over the place."

    He refuses to give his details to the male officer and is then told he faces arrest for "breaking Covid guidelines" and is told to put his hands on his head. The officer then threatens to spray him if he does not comply.

    When handcuffs are placed on him the man becomes agitated and tells him the cuffs are hurting and pleads to him to "twist that top one around".

    He is then pushed against a car and told to lean over it, to which the man says: "You just keep saying things over and over again, you're not helping, you're not diluting the situation, you're making it worse. Because I come to drop some stuff off."

    A woman is then heard saying to the officer: "In the current situation, in the current pandemic, there's more pressing situations to be dealing with than coming over and bothering somebody going about his business on his own."

    The officer tells the woman: "Listen... you'll be next."
     
    There are some nasty buggers in the police, so they're truly reflecting the society from which they're recruited. Still, as long as they're not racist I guess it's OK. This is the force which was desperately trying to find white grooming gangs not so long ago, anything but target "vulnerable communities".

    During lockdowns they are among the few allowed out and about, and this power must be going to the heads of certainly those of them who were authoritarians to start with.

  97. HA says:

    Trump has an easy out. This isn’t about saving lives vs. saving money. It’s about saving lives that will be lost to Covid-19 vs lives that will be lost from the shutdown. As large as the uncertainties are with the disease models, the economic models that predict just how many lives will be lost from the downturn are even more uncertain, but no serious person can deny that lives are being lost with each continuing day of shutdown. There’s no easy out here, which is precisely why he has an easy out.

    Sure, Democrats and the will try to portray him as evil. What else is new? I have two words for them: Oxiris Barbot. For every clueless #coronahoax right-winger who can’t tell the difference between linear and exponential, or else wants to believe that the “government of Sweden” is the “champion of Western man” (and I can find you clear examples of both kinds of such lunacy on these pages) there’s just as many if not more left-wingers who were urging us to go hug a China person and not give in to rumors. It’s not always a left-right issue — sometimes the problem is with human nature itself.

    Obviously, those who live in NYC and those who live in Butte, Montana will need solutions customized to each locale and set of lifestyles. But Trump doesn’t need to get mired in that. As long as he stresses the point that lives hang in the balance regardless of which way we go, he can weather this. So can we all.

    Uncertainty and doubt aren’t always bad for us — they can be exactly what allows us to simply flip a coin, pick a side, and get moving again:

    “Sometimes the road leads through dark places,
    Sometimes the darkness is your friend”

  98. @BenKenobi
    Despite all these "emergency powers" nothing will happen.

    Nothing ever happens.

    Nothing ever happens. Until it does.

  99. @Hail

    There actually have been a series of National Emergencies dating back, I think, to World War 2 that have been declared by the federal government and never been rescinded.
     
    A lot of CoronaDissidents including the great Dr. Ron Paul are pointing to this. All too few are listening.

    All flu viruses pass. But the long-term losses of rights, the normalization and empowerment of media-directed and media-enforced paranoias that have the power to destroy people's lives (as by fiat), the radical empowering of Fauci-like "burn down the village in order to save it" commissars, the rise of "turn in your neighbors"-ism that has been reported, they may not pass so easily, and will have net effects far worse than the virus. There are big winners here, and none of them are us the people.

    I see no better, more convenient label for this series of maneuvers than: "The Corona Coup D'etat of 2020."

    Truman declared a state of emergency of some kind in December 1950 when China joined in the Korean War. As far as I know it was never rescinded.

  100. @Travis
    But even if Trump announced an end to his advised restrictions , would states like New Jersey and California still keep their residents locked down ? We have no reason to believe that Governor Cuomo will end the Stay at Home order if Trump advises an end to his restrictions. Cuomo may be less likely to open New York if Trump advises him to end the restrictions. Democratic Governors banned hydroxychloroquine because Trump advocated this drug. they may well extend the restrictions if Trump advises an end to the restrictions.

    The Trump administration is not the reason Cuomo locked down New York and sent the National guard to quarantine New Rochelle. Trump did not order the governor of New Jersey to close all the State Parks. Can Trump force Nevada to open all their hotels and casinos ? Can he force Disney to open up their theme parks ? Can he force Cities to allow movie theaters to open again ? Will movie theaters bother to open anyway ?

    The non-binding guidelines issued by Trump to encourage Americans to stay home should be eliminated soon. Hopefully we will have adequate supplies of hydroxychloroquine in May and the governors will then start easing their stay at home orders. We also need Cuomo and other governors to end their bans on hydroxychloroquine so doctors have the freedom to prescribe this promising CV treatment.

    Actually, Trump can do every one of those things. It is called enforcing the First Amendment to the Constitution.

    Just remember, every one of the lockdowns are 1) Unconstitutional, therefore illegal 2) immoral 3) and counterproductive, since staying inside is the worst possible response to the seasonal flu\cold\virus.

    Given the grotesquely illegal actions of the political class, medical fraud, medical incompetence, Gigantic deliberate lies on the part of the Media, and the truly catastrophic effects of mass unemployment, I doubt the lawsuits are ever going to stop. Which will be secondary to the rampaging of the Unemployed, coming soon to a city near you.

    • Replies: @Travis
    Can Trump force the New Jersey Governor to open the schools ? Open the State Parks ? Open the Casinos ? Open bowling alleys and movie theaters ?

    Or will the governors appeal to the liberal courts and stop any Presidential orders ?
    Will the President send in troops to force New Jersey to open their beaches, parks and restaurants ?

  101. It is surprising how little is known about the virus, even the death rates differ between countries and states. The German study seems to indicate this is an HIV-like or herpes-like virus – once you get it in the system, it stays in your body and it can potentially flare up later on. This also makes it unlikely a vaccine can be developed any time soon. We probably have to learn to live with this – a lot of people have herpes-1 since childhood and they are functioning just fine. This also probably means there is no “true” immunity, let alone herd immunity.

    What the multi-trillion American bio-med industrial complex is doing is puzzling to me. Maybe instead of all that pork on the museums and what not they should have funded a decent study, maybe pay a few billions to those Germans to lure them in, if needed. Where is a new Manhattan project when you need it ?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    It is surprising how little is known about the virus,
     
    Isn't it, though?

    It's infuriating to me that we have dozens upon dozens of multiply redundant national and international health organzations, whose collective annual budget totals in the hundreds of billions, and yet they cannot seem to put together a decent study or develop a virus test that actually works correctly, and everything they do is counterproductive. Their one concrete recommendation---that everyone must stay locked in their homes---is effectively no different than what would have happened if we had all gotten sick anyway. What do you do when you're really sick? You don't go to work or socialize or spend money, you bum around the house until you feel better. Their cure is no different than the disease, and it cost us $6 trillion.

    This is a gigantic paper tiger moment for America and the other Western democracies. Their handling of this matter has been inept and bewildering at every turn.
  102. @utu
    ...the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth.... - Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    “If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.”

    Is that you, Dr. Scarfy?

  103. @anon
    OT: U.S.A. has the sad distinction of having most number of cases and most deaths in the world. Total death count passed past Italy and may touch 20K today. The curve may be flattening, but shows no evidence of downward slope. We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time.

    “We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time.”

    Fake numbers because CDC and Drs. Poochy and Scarfy ordered hospitals to count every stiff as death by kungflu.

    #CoronaHoax

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Right! And, from Anon:

    “We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time.”
     
    2,000 people dead, you mean. Did you remember to subtract out the lawyers?
  104. @Jonathan Mason
    I was more worried about living long enough so that she would be able to remember me.

    Now she is old enough to question my intelligence and make fun of me.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that's the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

  105. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I really wish the president would keep his mouth shut. Since he talked about Hydrochloroquin and now, Zinc as being effective treatments, the MSM has reflexively proclaimed that they aren’t. Of course Trump is right and the mainstream media are putting innocents in harms way due to TDS. Maybe going forward he should take a cue from a classic Seinfeld episode and just say the opposite of what he really means in his press briefings.

    what I would like Trump to do is order hospitals and doctors to report daily on what treatments they are providing their virus patients and all of their vitals. Publish that info online. That way the public can see what works best to rid the body of the china virus.

  106. @Jonathan Mason
    I was more worried about living long enough so that she would be able to remember me.

    Now she is old enough to question my intelligence and make fun of me.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that's the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

    The law of mortality has not been revoked.

    I’m not trying to be rude, but I think you have some issues you need to come to terms with. I would recommend reexamining your casual dismissal of religion and God.

    There are plenty of theological sources I could pass on, all of them online, in the public domain, and free.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    I think you are probably taking comments intended to be ironic as literal.

    I have a lot of respect for religion and its traditions and would like to be buried one day with the same ceremonies as my ancestors for hundreds of years.

    However, as a going concern, religion seems to have had better days. Note that today is Easter Sunday, one of the two biggest Christian festival days of the year, and all of the churches are closed due to the COVID pestilence. Nobody really believes in divine protection any more, or indeed in martrydom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSd2viF6zI
  107. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I really wish the president would keep his mouth shut. Since he talked about Hydrochloroquin and now, Zinc as being effective treatments, the MSM has reflexively proclaimed that they aren’t. Of course Trump is right and the mainstream media are putting innocents in harms way due to TDS. Maybe going forward he should take a cue from a classic Seinfeld episode and just say the opposite of what he really means in his press briefings.

    I keep hoping Trump would make a statement like “Drinking 3 quarts of Draino per day could exacerbate COVID symptoms. Don’t do it.”

    In the meantime, more zinc gluconate for me.

  108. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I really wish the president would keep his mouth shut. Since he talked about Hydrochloroquin and now, Zinc as being effective treatments, the MSM has reflexively proclaimed that they aren’t. Of course Trump is right and the mainstream media are putting innocents in harms way due to TDS. Maybe going forward he should take a cue from a classic Seinfeld episode and just say the opposite of what he really means in his press briefings.

    He can’t win no matter what he does. It seems like there is some central agency or group trying to figure out how to make everything Trump says look bad no matter what it is and all the MSM outlets parrot it within 20 minutes.

    If he hadn’t mentioned it, the comments at the press conference would be “Hydrochloroquin seems to be having a good effect at helping patients with COVID-19. Why have you allowed people to die instead of alerting people to this life saving therapy?”

    • Agree: Travis
  109. Related.

  110. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    ” vowing instead to ‘die on stage’.”

    I don’t want to be in that audience…Rodale (sp. ?) was bad enough.

  111. @Jonathan Mason
    I was more worried about living long enough so that she would be able to remember me.

    Now she is old enough to question my intelligence and make fun of me.

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that's the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.

    Thanks….good to know!

  112. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:

    Privileged moron on a SEPTA bus in Philly decides to argue with driver.
    When the SEPTA driver tells you to get off the bus, you’re getting off the bus – easy way or hard way, you get to choose. Until he calls the cops and they show up, then your options have narrowed.

    It’s not about the mask, it’s about disobeying the driver’s authoriteh and being a pain in the ass.

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/669953/shock-moment-passenger-dragged-off-philadelphia-bus-cops-face-mask/

    Utah tightens its borders just a little bit.

    https://www.abc4.com/news/drivers-entering-utah-will-need-to-complete-an-online-travel-declaration-form-starting-friday/

    Texas did the same thing earlier in the week.

    https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/check-points-at-louisiana-texas-border-open-sunday/289-a5531ce5-3921-475a-9126-092c9aebb6f1

  113. @Paleo Liberal
    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form “order” the economy open or closed or anything else.
    — First off, it’s of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    — Secondly, politically it’s stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening … he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors–i.e. the Democrat governors–own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And–free bonus–geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese–ergo globalist–created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats–though still way too late–in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has–properly–let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump’s desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn’t lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    — Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    — Preventatives–zinc, etc.
    — Treatments–hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    — Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation — jobs and money go to Americans.
    — Full immigration stop.
    — Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    — Ramp up deportation
    — No foreign students, student visas.
    — Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    — While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    — Build the Wall
    — Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones–which can be dual use with military, etc.–for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    — Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways–upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they’d like to see. Get America’s young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    — Repatriate all critical medical–medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    — Raise tariffs on China. China is “going to pay for it”.
    — Simply leave–resign from–any “international agreement” blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    — Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    — Fire all the “racism!”, “stigma!” and “quarantines don’t work” ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    — Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    — All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    — Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term … but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    — Enable on-line learning.
    — Create suites of certification tests.
    — Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don’t care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they “went to Harvard”. They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    — Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit–so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids … they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    — Vaccinations and such–all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats–sometimes the same people–gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    — 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else–no loopholes–none. Quacks like a duck–you pay. Try and do it overseas–you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it’s an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation–there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    • Replies: @Dano
    Sound and salient points. 6 will be tough since the impact on 401k's is unknown on that one. If there is some sort of protection there, it would be ok. Otherwise....tough to pull off but damn well worth a try.
    , @Reg Cæsar, @anon
    Daddy, do you know what this is?
    , @Jonathan Mason
    Anybody remember "small government"?
    , @36 ulster
    Wow! Best comment I've read on Unz so far, though that might not seem to be saying much; many of the others shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects. But really, AD, spot on.
    , @Anon
    “ — No foreign students, student visas.”
    Hell, yeah! I live near Stanford and that campus has been crawling with Chicom “princelings” for years. Get rid of ‘em! I’d be nice to see the Saudi “princes” go away, too.
  114. @Joe Stalin
    "If he wants to punt, he can just say, local governments know their local circumstances best, so each should make the call for their own. (NYC: lockdown forever; North Dakota: Free State)"

    Hey, States' Rights Today, States' Rights Forever!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDl8GqRxuw

    Trump strikes me as someone who will go for it on fourth and long.

    • Agree: Dano
  115. Just heard on the radio a good RadioLab story about serum therapy. Giving plasma (with its antibodies) from Covid-19 recovered people to currently sick people. About 1:3 ratio.
    Apparently it’s already happening in the US to a certain amount and they have links to places where you can possibly donate of you’ve already had Covid-19.

    Even short of a vaccine or hydroxychloroquine, etc this can really knock down mortality, though it’s not cheap.

    It also contains an affecting meditation on having people be ill and die in isolation. It’s from an oncologist involved in this.

    https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dispatch-3-shared-immunity

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Serum therapy is the one planned treatment where we'd be unlucky if it didn't work to some extent. Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we'd have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work. But there are thousands of existing drugs, so in aggregate we might well get lucky.
    , @Wielgus
    It's not cheap. That is exactly why the USA is so vulnerable to a health crisis, with a health service so profit-oriented and with many uninsured people.
    I read somewhere else on this site that just testing someone for Covid-19 costs over 3,000 dollars.
  116. Anonymous[530] • Disclaimer says:

    The rage of Bill Maher. Maher, one of the icons of liberalism, is actually what you would call a centrist. He has, for instance, openly condemned Islam, something that even Republicans are afraid to do.

    Here, Maher rants at liberals, who are all upset over calling this “China flu” on the grounds that it is racist. It is not racist because it is not condemning a race, but a culture. Furthermore, Maher argues, this is a life-and-death issue, and political sensibilities don’t matter when it comes to dealing with lifw-and-death issues. It is ok to say that SARS-COVID2 is from China, because it is from China.

    “We absolutely must say that this virus comes from China, and to put the blame solidly on China and their disgusting wet markets. Eating bats is bat shit crazy, and we need to put pressure on China to close their wet markets. What if they were selling nuclear weapons in those wet markets, what then? Would we still not tell them to close them because it might be seen as racist?”

    Maher over the last several years has been taking a brutal beating from liberals, because his liberalism is seen as too moderate and compromising for today’s liberal standards, which are far more extreme than they used to be.

  117. @anonymous jew
    We're a country with a unique approach to individual freedom. That's why we're OK with 480,000 people a year dying from smoking; over 100,000 from other drugs and alcohol. That's why we allow guns, giant SUVs to all, mountaineering and other things that serve no utilitarian purpose.

    How about this: let individuals decide for themselves. Government's only role should be in facilitating that decision making. Allow job protection, extended leave, extend unemployment etc. But if an 80-year-old leukemia patient wants to attend a ball game, so be it. Maybe they've been given one month to live and their decision is more rational than any bureaucrat could know. That's the whole point of our freedoms: we know what's in our own best interest and should have the freedom to decide.

    The lockdown Nazis have taken over the world like the invasion of the body snatchers. I sort of get that - I've never had much faith in human nature. But I'm surprised by the reaction of so many here.

    Yes, if we let people decide for themselves more may die, and that's OK. Don't we still have our Constitution?

    Beat me to it.
    Let individuals, localities, states decide.
    It’s called freedom. If you don’t want to go to work, the store, church, stay home. Lay low.
    Others might decide differently.
    It really isn’t constitutionally the president’s job to say yea or nay.

  118. @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.
  119. @Emslander
    Anecdotally speaking, it looks like a lot of us people out here in flyover country had the disease in January and have developed herd immunity. A lady doctor at a hospital on the South Side of Chicago tests 500 people a day for antibody and finds 30 to 50 percent positive results.

    Should I ask why more is not being made of this? All due respect to Ron Unz and Dr. Cody, it's probable that California is in the same situation. I'll answer the question. There's no constituency for the possibility of pre-existing immunities.

    The Southside of Chicago is part of Fly Over Land?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    Who in a clinic on the Chicago South Side has access to antibody tests right now?
    , @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    No.
    But it is the baddest part of town.
  120. @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it’s about!
    Asking, “Well do you know what it’s about?” is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Marty
    Okay, but I hated “At Seventeen” more.
    , @Known Fact
    Warrant's My Cherry Pie is worse than American Pie, but MacArthur Park -- with that damn cake -- is worse than either.
    , @Joe Joe
    I would rather listen to "American Pie" 100 times than listen to "Imagine" once :-(
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    The first part of his statement - that modern music is nihilistic nonsense - is unarguably true.

    The second part - I'll die on stage - is laughably stereotypical boomer nonsense.

    A real man, when he's fed up with the nihilistic society around him, either joins a monastery or becomes a mountain man.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-0qYjCHKTBs/maxresdefault.jpg
    , @Rex Little
    I'll add two more to the list of songs worse than American Pie: Donovan's "Sunshine Superman" and "Mellow Yellow". And at least American Pie spawned a great parody.
  121. @utu
    ...the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth.... - Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    That sounds about right, that this virus is a “five-bagger.”

    I think the shutdowns were justified, but people don’t have to be such scolds (cough, Mr. Unz, cough) about it.

    The shutdowns are attenuating this to “no worse than the flu”, so spare me all of the “soaring” and “skyrocketing” and “grim milestone” and “deaths in US exceed Italy” and “you have no idea how bad this is” drama (I am following the guidelines, as a reward, can anyone get “Corvinus” to self-attenuate as well?). It’s bad enough being stuck at home to have to listen to the TV and read all of this on the Internet.

  122. @Steve Sailer
    The Southside of Chicago is part of Fly Over Land?

    Who in a clinic on the Chicago South Side has access to antibody tests right now?

  123. @Black-hole creator
    It is surprising how little is known about the virus, even the death rates differ between countries and states. The German study seems to indicate this is an HIV-like or herpes-like virus - once you get it in the system, it stays in your body and it can potentially flare up later on. This also makes it unlikely a vaccine can be developed any time soon. We probably have to learn to live with this - a lot of people have herpes-1 since childhood and they are functioning just fine. This also probably means there is no "true" immunity, let alone herd immunity.

    What the multi-trillion American bio-med industrial complex is doing is puzzling to me. Maybe instead of all that pork on the museums and what not they should have funded a decent study, maybe pay a few billions to those Germans to lure them in, if needed. Where is a new Manhattan project when you need it ?

    It is surprising how little is known about the virus,

    Isn’t it, though?

    It’s infuriating to me that we have dozens upon dozens of multiply redundant national and international health organzations, whose collective annual budget totals in the hundreds of billions, and yet they cannot seem to put together a decent study or develop a virus test that actually works correctly, and everything they do is counterproductive. Their one concrete recommendation—that everyone must stay locked in their homes—is effectively no different than what would have happened if we had all gotten sick anyway. What do you do when you’re really sick? You don’t go to work or socialize or spend money, you bum around the house until you feel better. Their cure is no different than the disease, and it cost us $6 trillion.

    This is a gigantic paper tiger moment for America and the other Western democracies. Their handling of this matter has been inept and bewildering at every turn.

  124. By the way- what about Jews? Where the heck they are, with their archetypal hooked noses?

    Why do we have to read incessantly about some damn disease & nothing about Jewish malicious deeds & perversion that is, somehow, encoded in their DNA?

    Make Aunty-Semitism Great Again.

  125. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    Sound and salient points. 6 will be tough since the impact on 401k’s is unknown on that one. If there is some sort of protection there, it would be ok. Otherwise….tough to pull off but damn well worth a try.

  126. Trump should probably just make us do whatever Taiwan is doing.

  127. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

  128. @Jack Armstrong
    According to the ‘pedia, there are over 30 NSOEs still in effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States

    An example:

    November 3, 1997 (Clinton) - Blocking Sudanese Government Property and Prohibiting Transactions With Sudan (Executive Order 13067)– established a trade embargo against Sudan, specifically targeting the Sudanese government.
     
    Don’t know what to think of that. I’m surprised that Sudan even has a government.

    I used to work at a university law library, and one of my responsibilities was as the clerk of government documents. These things came in periodically as House Documents, and I was charged with creating records for each of them, transcribing the Superintendent of Documents (SUDOC) numbers onto them, and shelving them in the stacks. Often, when the Deep State was particularly charged up with tormenting some other nation with these National Emergencies (seemingly this being their actual purpose, as they were almost never responding to any kind of genuine threat to the nation) they would just keep renewing them time after time.

    Reading Senate Hearings, another category of GovDocs for which I had responsibility, was all too often an unedifying experience, as they were demonstrative of the mediocrity and mendacity of the legislators. At least I got paid for this.

  129. Steve for a guy allegedly so smart is amazingly gullible when he says death certificates are

    the most reliable indicators for the serverity of the Kung Flu. Read CDC directions.

    All deaths by persons tested to be positive Kung Flu or even SUSPECTED of having

    Kung Flu are to be reported as CAUSED BY KUNG FLU! Garbage in, garbage out.

    Steve is largely innumerate. The trillions of dollars printed out of thin air by the Fed to enable

    the self-enriching stock market and other parts of the Ponzi scheme of the USS Titanic

    are have bankrupted the US. Mainstream media hysteria promoted 24/7 is meant

    to create an instant unquestionable police state so the current parastic genocidal

    elite will not be overthrown.

    The American people including Steve are incredibly gullible. In 2001 they accepted

    that aluminum airplanes weighing thousands of POUNDS could destroy the concrete

    and steel Twin Towers weighing thousands of TONS by the burning of jet fuel whose

    burning point is below the melting point of steel. Hopeless.

  130. @Hail

    Some Dems (like the idiot VA governor) want to wait months longer.
     
    Gov. Northam, the full-blown CoronaPanic-pusher, is the same governor who came out in favor of post-birth abortions.

    On the theme of babies that Gov. Northam wants to make sure never get the chance -- Going on all past experience, his long-term shutdown orders, into summer and maybe fall, with their economic dislocation and ruination/serious-disruption of many-a prime-age, young, working-age man and woman's lives, will end up sapping the fertility rate, netting very likely more lost people, the statistically-should-have-been-born-but-never-were potential people, than the novel coronavirus' true victims will even come close to. This, friends, is CoronaParanoia in action.

    Governor Northam has converted to the CoronaReligion; its angry god demands its sacrifices in blood. Easter, which is tomorrow, is our greatest religious holiday and is about life, resurrection; but Gov. Northam and the rest of the clown-car governors have reverted to a more-primitive, blood sacrifice religion to appears their new god.

    That guy is creepy. I actually think they are satanic or something – they actually make decisions that ruin the joy and purpose out of life for average people. I used to think it was just the side effects of misguided liberal policies, but it seems clear now that they actually want to make us suffer.

    Post Birth abortion is just evil – murder of a defenseless infant. I’m pro choice in the first trimester but post birth abortion is Satanic.

  131. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    Daddy, do you know what

    [MORE]
    this is?

  132. @Cucksworth
    What will the consequence be for Americans who do not want to take vaccine?

    Yes, the Johns-Hopkins-Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Event 201’s and US Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Dr. Anthony Fauci said on CNN that certificates of immunity from the somehow AIDS-infused coronavirus are something being considered before Americans can return to work. Notice: There’s little chance of voting our way out of this putch by these tyrannical maniacs.

    https://theduran.com/fauci-proposes-immunity-certificates-to-those-who-have-gotten-over-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    That makes no sense. Not everyone will get kungflu, so not everyone will have immunity. And coronavirums - such as HIV - resist vaccination because they mutate too fast. After 35 years, still no vax for HIV. Dr. Poochy's idea is profoundly ignorant.
  133. @Steve Sailer
    The Southside of Chicago is part of Fly Over Land?

    No.
    But it is the baddest part of town.

  134. @Mr. Anon

    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.
     
    Hah. Well said. I for one will never celebrate the 4th of July again. Not that I did much anyway - it kind of became a dead letter after 911. But to do so now would be ridiculous.

    In 1776, the revolutionaries whom we honor on July 4th risked, and even sacrificed, their lives for liberty. Americans in 2020 sacrificed their liberty for an extra week on a ventillator.

    As Benjamin Franklin said:

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety…

  135. @vhrm
    Just heard on the radio a good RadioLab story about serum therapy. Giving plasma (with its antibodies) from Covid-19 recovered people to currently sick people. About 1:3 ratio.
    Apparently it's already happening in the US to a certain amount and they have links to places where you can possibly donate of you've already had Covid-19.

    Even short of a vaccine or hydroxychloroquine, etc this can really knock down mortality, though it's not cheap.


    It also contains an affecting meditation on having people be ill and die in isolation. It's from an oncologist involved in this.

    https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dispatch-3-shared-immunity

    Serum therapy is the one planned treatment where we’d be unlucky if it didn’t work to some extent. Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we’d have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work. But there are thousands of existing drugs, so in aggregate we might well get lucky.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we’d have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work.
     
    The trouble is this--that ivermectin kills the virus in the test tube, but so does alcohol. We know that it is safe to drink alcohol in vast quantities, but apparently you still can't get the blood level high enough to kill the virus without killing yourself first.
  136. @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    Okay, but I hated “At Seventeen” more.

  137. @Thoughts
    There's an episode of the X-Files called the 'Red Museum' which is a great analogy for Denmark/Sweden.

    Sweden is the Control Group and Denmark is the Experimental Group (or vice versa)

    I'd make a bet this was a conscious decision at the upper levels of power between the two nations or direct orders from the EU.

    If there is some kind of Illuminati this is the last thing they would want. If Sweden’s laissez faire policy succeeds it will set an example that will embarrass the world’s elites. (And then Sweden will be overrun by Muslims, but I digress…)

  138. @Anon87
    2 points:

    All I'm seeing of first responders are asinine Tik Tok videos of singing and dancing like morons. Not exactly MASH units.

    Aren't all deaths being recorded as corona deaths in NYC for the time being?

    >singing and dancing are not exactly …
    Seriously though check out the original book and the Altman film.
    In fact, it’s got a part interesting to race realists, a great example of clumsy propaganda aging poorly and exposing sloppy thinking of a period. In the earlier part of the civil rights era, before the Gratitude Riots, there was this liberal faith article that blacks would smoothly assimilate white society and not, like, freak out and try to kill everyone. Most of the book MASH has that subversive semi-secret ring of truth (which contributed to its popularity) but there’s an aberrantly clumsy and unrealistic conversation in which a Negro doc and a Southern Boy (I think played in the movie by Tom Skerritt) agree over and over with each other — not about how race ain’t nothin but a color, but about how neither whites nor blacks have any reason to be violently angry at each other.

  139. @BenKenobi
    The ethnocentric Han cries out about racism as he calls you a stupid round-eye gwailo.

    I am kind of sympathetic to the normie idea that we should suspend our Constitutional rights to accommodate Jewish mytho-historical claims because in the most denied denialist version they did undoubtedly suffer. The control group outcome demonstrating that we should never yield one inch on our rights, and the thing unbenighted sympathetic normies did not see coming, is that right behind the Jew waited patiently an infinite queue of peoples who never suffered at that level, but demand the same privilege. (Which is funny, because normally those people can’t queue patiently.) The exemption from criticism and the sacralization (and the making into a legal matter) of a Great Humiliation is not a Jewish thing, it’s an Earthian thing.

  140. @utu
    ...the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth.... - Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.

    Even 250,000 dead (mostly old and sick) out of a population of 330,000,000 is sad but not that big a deal. About 2,800,000 die each year. So a 10% bump that will probably contribute to a drop in subsequent years.

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
  141. @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    Warrant’s My Cherry Pie is worse than American Pie, but MacArthur Park — with that damn cake — is worse than either.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Jani Lane, frontman for Warrant and the fella who wrote Cherry Pie, came to deeply regret doing so.

    Here's a very honest take from the man himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR1xpknCHCQ
    , @The Alarmist
    What's your take on Winchester Cathedral ?
  142. @Jonathan Mason
    Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet.

    I am inclined to that point of view.

    But the problem is that we have become so expecting of continued lifespan, that as a Medicare society we find normal death hard to take.

    My parents were born in 1923 and 1925 and by 1944 both were orphans. My paternal grandmother died of TB before she was 30, (and she was a doctor's daughter) which would be unthinkable today.

    The Bible says the days of man are threescore years and ten, and that is the way it has always been until the last generation or two.

    I have a friend--I call him a friend, because I have chatted with him for 15 minutes or once or twice a week for the last couple of years, but we are not friend-friends.

    He is 70 years old and fit as a fiddle. He has a thriving dental practice and owns a large block of gold, which he obtained for free by means of removing gold dental fillings that the owners did not want to keep! He owns a number of patents. So he is an intelligent and ingenious fellow at the peak of his powers.

    Last time I saw him was 11 days ago, and he was expressing scepticism about corona virus and saying that most people did not have enough vitamin D3 and zinc and that if he was afflicted, he knew exactly how to dose himself to drive the virus out of his cells. (He can prescribe medications.)

    He was wearing a mask, gown, and gloves long before corona virus came along.

    Yesterday I heard that he is in the ICU in Gainesville with corona virus.

    I am as scared as shit now, even though I am two years younger. I want the government to suspend the constitution for ever to keep me alive and see my seven year old daughter graduate high school and not grow up as an orphan as my parents did.

    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.
     
    Yeah, my father was orphaned at 14, then moved in with his step mother, then she died, so he lived with her 2nd husband, then he died, so he went to live with an uncle, then he joined the navy. That was how it was back then. Then when the war ended he got a job in a bank in Nigeria. Free at last.
    , @The Alarmist
    That's one way to look at it.
  143. @Paleo Liberal
    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?

    His taking the lead is necessary. He needs to revise his recommendations. He has not issued orders except to the military and the civilian executive departments, AFAIK, and that should continue. The restrictions in Republican states such as Indiana are to a large extent because of his recommendations. Only a few states such as South dakota have held out against the hysteria.

  144. @Bill Jones
    According to Pelosi, it's no big deal.
    https://www.sott.net/article/432302-Criminal-Nancy-Pelosi-claims-theres-no-data-to-prove-small-businesses-need-more-emergency-funds

    But the Republicans are making sure the money is going where needed

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/david-stockman/republicans-are-now-good-for-exactly-nothing/

    EG
    " $500,000,000 to Museums and Libraries (Who the hell knows how we are going to use it?)

    $720,000,000 to Social Security Admin (But get this – of this, only $200,000,000 is to benefit people. The rest is for admin costs.)

    $25,000,000 for Cleaning supplies for the Capitol Building (Seriously, it’s on page 136)

    Still reading through this crap?

    $7,500,000 to the Smithsonian for additional salaries (Wait a minute, what about the virus?)

    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts (See above)"

    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts (See above)”

    This institution belatedly backed away from its insane decision to furlough musicians after being granted aid, only when the union complained.

  145. @Corvinus
    "Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet."

    Who are these "actual qualified researchers" you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    "The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want."

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites--whoever this group is in your mind--plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    Besides, I thought that the Covid-19 pandemic would finally bring globalism and immigration to its knees, and the Jewish banking cabal will come to a screeching halt!

    Thanks, E. Michael Jones!

    https://culturewars.com/news/the-coronavirus-and-the-culture-war


    “Just as the Black Death, which carried off 40 percent of Europe’s population in the mid-14th century, signaled the end of the Middle Ages in de Mattei’s eyes, so the coronavirus pandemic signals the end of the American Empire and the era of Globalization, as practiced by oligarchs like George Soros. Globalization is both the perpetrator and ultimate victim of the current crisis because it “destroys space and pulverizes distances.” But because God is in charge of history, Globalization finds itself subjected to the cunning of reason which has created “social distance, the isolation of the individual and quarantine,” all of which are “diametrically opposed to the ‘open society’ hoped for by George Soros.” De Mattei believes that the pandemic is bringing an end to “the world without borders.”
     
    "One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along."

    You are completely overgeneralizing here.

    "As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference."

    Which has been to the detriment of the America citizen. You can't be THAT ignorant...

    Who are these “actual qualified researchers” you speak about?

    A former Rockefeller University faculty member, for one.

  146. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    Anybody remember “small government”?

  147. @Paul Mendez
    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.

    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.

    Yeah, my father was orphaned at 14, then moved in with his step mother, then she died, so he lived with her 2nd husband, then he died, so he went to live with an uncle, then he joined the navy. That was how it was back then. Then when the war ended he got a job in a bank in Nigeria. Free at last.

  148. @Steve Sailer
    Serum therapy is the one planned treatment where we'd be unlucky if it didn't work to some extent. Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we'd have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work. But there are thousands of existing drugs, so in aggregate we might well get lucky.

    Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we’d have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work.

    The trouble is this–that ivermectin kills the virus in the test tube, but so does alcohol. We know that it is safe to drink alcohol in vast quantities, but apparently you still can’t get the blood level high enough to kill the virus without killing yourself first.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. Lots more drugs work in test tubes than work in bodies.

    It would be very nice if ivermectin worked in people against the WuFlu because it's pretty safe and there is a huge amount sitting on shelves in hospitals, pet shops, and farm supply stores.

    But the odds are very low for any single already approved drug. But there are lots of already approved drugs so it can't hurt to check.

  149. @Jonathan Mason

    Most of the other tests being done currently on common pharmaceutical like ivermectin, we’d have to be very lucky for any single one of them to work.
     
    The trouble is this--that ivermectin kills the virus in the test tube, but so does alcohol. We know that it is safe to drink alcohol in vast quantities, but apparently you still can't get the blood level high enough to kill the virus without killing yourself first.

    Right. Lots more drugs work in test tubes than work in bodies.

    It would be very nice if ivermectin worked in people against the WuFlu because it’s pretty safe and there is a huge amount sitting on shelves in hospitals, pet shops, and farm supply stores.

    But the odds are very low for any single already approved drug. But there are lots of already approved drugs so it can’t hurt to check.

    • Replies: @Thoughts
    The thing about Ivermectin and even Hydroxochloroquine is that both seem to me to be 'Anti-Parasite' drugs

    Which is awesomely strange but interesting

    So...

    As a layman pretending to be a Doctor...

    If Anti-Parasite drugs seem to make a dent in this disease, you could just take a lot of anti-parasite supplements along with zinc absorption supplements

    and a gin and tonic :)

    Maybe, just maybe, you'd be part of the asymptomatic group and not Boris
  150. @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    I would rather listen to “American Pie” 100 times than listen to “Imagine” once 🙁

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Or anything from Paul McCartney after 1966, when he died in a car wreck. Some of the Billy Shears stuff is decent, but certainly not "one and only", and absolutely not worthy of whisky and rye.
    , @BB753
    I find John Lennon's singing voice strident and obnoxious. In his later yeats, it almost became undistinguishable from Yoko Ono's vocals. I can't wait for a Yoko Ono covern of Imagine!

    https://youtu.be/ZBgwxnn45Ho

    https://youtu.be/kEGTV8usZsI

    I miss Jerry Lewis, America's greatest humorist since Danny Kaye! Yeah, I'm part French!
  151. @Corvinus
    "Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet."

    Who are these "actual qualified researchers" you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    "The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want."

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites--whoever this group is in your mind--plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    Besides, I thought that the Covid-19 pandemic would finally bring globalism and immigration to its knees, and the Jewish banking cabal will come to a screeching halt!

    Thanks, E. Michael Jones!

    https://culturewars.com/news/the-coronavirus-and-the-culture-war


    “Just as the Black Death, which carried off 40 percent of Europe’s population in the mid-14th century, signaled the end of the Middle Ages in de Mattei’s eyes, so the coronavirus pandemic signals the end of the American Empire and the era of Globalization, as practiced by oligarchs like George Soros. Globalization is both the perpetrator and ultimate victim of the current crisis because it “destroys space and pulverizes distances.” But because God is in charge of history, Globalization finds itself subjected to the cunning of reason which has created “social distance, the isolation of the individual and quarantine,” all of which are “diametrically opposed to the ‘open society’ hoped for by George Soros.” De Mattei believes that the pandemic is bringing an end to “the world without borders.”
     
    "One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along."

    You are completely overgeneralizing here.

    "As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference."

    Which has been to the detriment of the America citizen. You can't be THAT ignorant...

    Actual qualified researcher:

    Knut Wittkowski (30 years of recognized expertise in epidemiology; for almost twenty years he was the Head of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design, Center for Clinical & Translational Science at Rockefeller University in New York; PhD, Computer Science, Univ. of Stuttgart, 1985; PhD, Medical Biometry, Univ. of Tübingen, 1993)

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Actual qualified researcher"

    So are you suggesting the other medical experts from around the world are less qualified, or not even qualified to Dr. Wittkowski, when it comes to Covid-19 strategies? How is Dr. Wittkowski more qualified, or more "in tune", compared to his peers? Please explain.

    Regarding Dr Wolfgang Wodarg, let us fact check him. Use Google Translate.

    https://www.swr.de/wissen/dr-wodarg-versucht-corona-zu-verharmlosen-100.html

    https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/ohne-fundament-arzt-nennt-corona-massnahmen-panikmache,RtaPFlQ

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/faktencheck-wolfgang-wodarg-verbreitet-thesen-die-wichtige-tatsachen-ignorieren/25654104.html

  152. Trump can “reopen the country” all he wants, but he can’t magically reopen the schools, and if the schools want to stay closed due to an “abundance of caution” this will keep plenty of adults — and the economy — pinned to the mat.

    My entire district shut down around mid-March when one relative of one child in one school “showed symptoms.” So don’t hold your breath for an educational renaissance

  153. @Known Fact
    Warrant's My Cherry Pie is worse than American Pie, but MacArthur Park -- with that damn cake -- is worse than either.

    Jani Lane, frontman for Warrant and the fella who wrote Cherry Pie, came to deeply regret doing so.

    Here’s a very honest take from the man himself:

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    He "wrote" Cherry Pie? More like scrawled with a crayon, a dark moment amid the artistic brilliance of '80s hair-pop-metal. Whitesnake's Slide It In is catchy and wryly observant by comparison
  154. @Corvinus
    "Actual qualified researchers in the field of medicine have weighed in that the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth and this has leaked out over the internet."

    Who are these "actual qualified researchers" you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    "The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want."

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites--whoever this group is in your mind--plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    Besides, I thought that the Covid-19 pandemic would finally bring globalism and immigration to its knees, and the Jewish banking cabal will come to a screeching halt!

    Thanks, E. Michael Jones!

    https://culturewars.com/news/the-coronavirus-and-the-culture-war


    “Just as the Black Death, which carried off 40 percent of Europe’s population in the mid-14th century, signaled the end of the Middle Ages in de Mattei’s eyes, so the coronavirus pandemic signals the end of the American Empire and the era of Globalization, as practiced by oligarchs like George Soros. Globalization is both the perpetrator and ultimate victim of the current crisis because it “destroys space and pulverizes distances.” But because God is in charge of history, Globalization finds itself subjected to the cunning of reason which has created “social distance, the isolation of the individual and quarantine,” all of which are “diametrically opposed to the ‘open society’ hoped for by George Soros.” De Mattei believes that the pandemic is bringing an end to “the world without borders.”
     
    "One effect of the current situation that I think may actually wind up having a long term effect is that we found out or got confirmation that we were living in a police state all along."

    You are completely overgeneralizing here.

    "As for Trump, his only role in this has been too give too much credence to the medical establishment, but if he had done otherwise it wouldn’t make a difference."

    Which has been to the detriment of the America citizen. You can't be THAT ignorant...

    Who are these “actual qualified researchers” you speak about? How are they seemingly more credentialed compared to the professionals from dozens of nations who have offered evidence that Covid-19 is NOT the flu?

    Here’s twelve to start with, you yammering nitwit:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/12-experts-questioning-coronavirus-panic/5707532

    What specific evidence you have that demonstrates the elites–whoever this group is in your mind–plan on using lockdowns in the future whenever they desire? Is it not possible that you are being a tad bit paranoid?

    The elites are – just that- the elites. The wealthy. The people who own everything, you prating ass.

    He is not paranoid. You are just stupid.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
  155. @res

    the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth…. – Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.
     
    I still believe that left unchecked this would have ended up somewhere between the 1918 and 1968 flu pandemics (which includes your estimate towards the lower end). So flu is a reasonable comparison. Though comparison to a "typical" flu season is not IMHO. I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen. The lower end would not. Where the exact threshold should be I expect to be a topic of vigorous debate over the weeks, months, and perhaps years ahead.

    I gave more details in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814212
    This comment links to a study of annual flu mortality in the US since 1900:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814426

    https://ajph.aphapublications.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/apha/journals/content/ajph/2008/ajph.2008.98.issue-5/ajph.2007.119933/production/images/large/doshi_f2_rev3.jpeg

    Interesting graphs. Thanks for the reference.

  156. @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    I hated that song. I don’t think that he should hang himself, but I do wish that his mother had had a headache the night he was conceived.

  157. @anon
    You had a kid at 61?!?

    Apparently so. What of it?
    President Tyler fathered children in his 60's, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.

    “President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.”

    And he produced 15 in total. Two of his grandkids are still living today.

    • Replies: @Anon
    One of the great presidents.
  158. @YetAnotherAnon
    My understanding is that the men were Eastern European. It has the air of successful coke wholesalers taking three 'escorts' for bit of R&R.

    Paper of Record


    "A source in French police said the organiser of the trip – a Croatian national working in finance and estate agency in the UK – had 'paid for everything'.

    He reportedly said to French police that 'I have money, let's talk' when they confronted him on the plane."
     

    I beg to differ. Of course they were daughters of the older men, out for a holiday.

  159. @Ron Mexico
    "President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course."

    And he produced 15 in total. Two of his grandkids are still living today.

    One of the great presidents.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "One of the great presidents."

    Prolific, at least. He has the distinction of being the first of our presidents to have served in that role without having been elected to the position. Fillmore, AJohnson, Arthur, and Ford the others. Tyler had his cabinet resign on him very quickly in to the term and was soon expelled from the Whig Party. Lacking support from either Whigs or Dems, he chose to put his support behind a fellow Manifest Destiny-er, James Polk. Tyler had pretty much gotten the Texas Annexation deal done for Polk, which spurred Polk's 4 years of great national expansion.
  160. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    Mr. President, you should* stand before the American people and you should* utter this famous quatrain:

    'If your lungs are diseased,
    Self-quarantine please;
    If your health is ok,
    Go on about your day!'

    ~ Dr. Theodore Seuss

    * Entitled boomers love the word 'should', they love telling young, healthy people how to live their lives

    I’d wager you have one of those big, oversized red and white stripped Cat-in-the-Hat hats.

  161. @Joe Joe
    I would rather listen to "American Pie" 100 times than listen to "Imagine" once :-(

    Or anything from Paul McCartney after 1966, when he died in a car wreck. Some of the Billy Shears stuff is decent, but certainly not “one and only”, and absolutely not worthy of whisky and rye.

  162. @Mike1
    Many tens of millions of people not interacting has modified the initial hit. Is that really hard to understand?!
    The most frightening thing about this disease so far is that people really are as ignorant as they appear to be.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&country=ITA+SWE+GBR+USA

    One of these things is not like the others. Hint – it’s not Italy.

  163. @Anon7
    Here's an anecdote from a UCLA ER doctor. He said in a meeting that there was a big spike in "coughing" as a reason for being hospitalized, their chief complaint. (When a person is admitted to a hospital, the forms require a "chief complaint".) This occurred in December of last year. This could be checked by other hospitalists or data scientists.

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.

    Isn’t that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He’s just a corrupt Neocon pundit who’s spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn’t anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…

    • Disagree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations"

    ^Behold the last desperate consolation-prize sermon for the Chicken Littles and e-M.D.'s. With perfect edgelord pitch they wound up a chimerical Katrina + Chernobyl extinction event at Year Zero; instead we got the worldwide AARP equivalent of Toyota Prius "sudden unexpected acceleration." You are definitely right about being "smoked out" though.
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "One positive aspect of this horrible [sic] epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…"

    Oh yes, it most certainly has 🤣

    , @Emslander

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.
    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…
     
    Methinks thou doth protest too much.

    Herd immunity can protect smaller concentrated populations very effectively. You don't have to look at the whole state. Just look at Sacramento, for example.
    , @William Badwhite

    sn’t that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He’s just a corrupt Neocon pundit who’s spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism....One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…
     
    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson's theory.
    , @anon
    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fzo32b/ultimate_theory_all_the_pieces_put_together/

    That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.

    (Also, perhaps some current tests only detect one variant, and others detect both.)

    , @Anon7
    Thanks for your thoughtful comment. No, this was just brought up in a lab meeting by an actual overworked ER doc who said he had actually looked in an actual hospital database and filtered actual patient data and found this actual result.

    Here’s another possibility for you to consider. This outbreak might just be full of all kinds of “unknown unknowns” and your various ideas about this particular novel Coronavirus are just not applicable. The existence of a novel virus really does smoke out the dimwits, even the highly educated ones, no doubt.

    BTW, now that I have you on the line, Ron, why do you put it out on the internet that you have nice copies of Astounding and other science fiction magazines online, and then you fucking don’t allow people in the US to view them? I appreciate unz.com, but that really grinds my gears.
  164. Hail says: • Website
    @anonymous jew
    Declaring the lockdown a success will depend in large part on the fate of Sweden. If Sweden doesn't change course it will set an example for the world that is too big to ignore. (Japan and Korea are also examples, but differences such as cultural practices, electronic tracking etc make them distinguishable from the West).

    As of last report, Sweden is doing fine and both deaths and cases are declining.

    Sweden sees just 77 new deaths from coronavirus and number of new infections drops by a quarter to just 544 as nation continues to resist lockdown

    You’re right that Sweden is good evidence that the destructive, full-on shutdowns were wrong, always were wrong, unnecessary. So bizarre it all is that the “Corona Coup D’Etat” narrative cannot be dismissed so easily.

    OTOH, the words of a sage of old:

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    I had the impression some were hoping the Swedes were going to die like flies as nemesis for refusing to live like troglodytes.
  165. anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I really wish the president would keep his mouth shut. Since he talked about Hydrochloroquin and now, Zinc as being effective treatments, the MSM has reflexively proclaimed that they aren’t. Of course Trump is right and the mainstream media are putting innocents in harms way due to TDS. Maybe going forward he should take a cue from a classic Seinfeld episode and just say the opposite of what he really means in his press briefings.

    Doctors were using it and hoarding it. So no one serious cares about TDS.

    Now Peter Navarro has distributed 29,000,000 doses, and if it works, great.

    If not, move on.

    I would guess it doesn’t help that much, but maybe zinc does. And they can toss in some more placebos as they go along.

    Some of the other long shot treatments have much worse side effects, are more expensive, or aren’t available to scale up.

  166. @anon
    You had a kid at 61?!?

    Apparently so. What of it?
    President Tyler fathered children in his 60's, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.

    So did Charlie Chaplin, although his relationships and marriages with much younger women were controversial.

  167. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    “One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations”

    ^Behold the last desperate consolation-prize sermon for the Chicken Littles and e-M.D.’s. With perfect edgelord pitch they wound up a chimerical Katrina + Chernobyl extinction event at Year Zero; instead we got the worldwide AARP equivalent of Toyota Prius “sudden unexpected acceleration.” You are definitely right about being “smoked out” though.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    Loons, shills and crackpots have been a key part of this site's demographic ever since I became aware of its existence. I didn't know Ron Unz had imposed a sanity test.
  168. @vhrm
    Just heard on the radio a good RadioLab story about serum therapy. Giving plasma (with its antibodies) from Covid-19 recovered people to currently sick people. About 1:3 ratio.
    Apparently it's already happening in the US to a certain amount and they have links to places where you can possibly donate of you've already had Covid-19.

    Even short of a vaccine or hydroxychloroquine, etc this can really knock down mortality, though it's not cheap.


    It also contains an affecting meditation on having people be ill and die in isolation. It's from an oncologist involved in this.

    https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dispatch-3-shared-immunity

    It’s not cheap. That is exactly why the USA is so vulnerable to a health crisis, with a health service so profit-oriented and with many uninsured people.
    I read somewhere else on this site that just testing someone for Covid-19 costs over 3,000 dollars.

  169. @Hail
    As of last report, Sweden is doing fine and both deaths and cases are declining.

    Sweden sees just 77 new deaths from coronavirus and number of new infections drops by a quarter to just 544 as nation continues to resist lockdown
     
    You're right that Sweden is good evidence that the destructive, full-on shutdowns were wrong, always were wrong, unnecessary. So bizarre it all is that the "Corona Coup D'Etat" narrative cannot be dismissed so easily.

    OTOH, the words of a sage of old:


    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
     

    I had the impression some were hoping the Swedes were going to die like flies as nemesis for refusing to live like troglodytes.

    • Replies: @Hail

    some were hoping the Swedes were going to die like flies
     
    "Sweden is a CoronaHeretic stronghold!" "The CoronaGod demands blood-sacrifice! Swedes must pay!"
  170. @By-tor
    Yes, the Johns-Hopkins-Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Event 201's and US Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Dr. Anthony Fauci said on CNN that certificates of immunity from the somehow AIDS-infused coronavirus are something being considered before Americans can return to work. Notice: There's little chance of voting our way out of this putch by these tyrannical maniacs.

    https://theduran.com/fauci-proposes-immunity-certificates-to-those-who-have-gotten-over-coronavirus/

    That makes no sense. Not everyone will get kungflu, so not everyone will have immunity. And coronavirums – such as HIV – resist vaccination because they mutate too fast. After 35 years, still no vax for HIV. Dr. Poochy’s idea is profoundly ignorant.

  171. @Paul Mendez
    Being orphaned in early adulthood is no big deal. I would have found it quite liberating.

    That’s one way to look at it.

  172. That’s one eay to look at it.

  173. @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    “One positive aspect of this horrible [sic] epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…”

    Oh yes, it most certainly has 🤣

    • LOL: Federalist
  174. @Known Fact
    Warrant's My Cherry Pie is worse than American Pie, but MacArthur Park -- with that damn cake -- is worse than either.

    What’s your take on Winchester Cathedral ?

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Winchester Cathedral? It's bringin' me down
  175. @Anonymous
    "One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations"

    ^Behold the last desperate consolation-prize sermon for the Chicken Littles and e-M.D.'s. With perfect edgelord pitch they wound up a chimerical Katrina + Chernobyl extinction event at Year Zero; instead we got the worldwide AARP equivalent of Toyota Prius "sudden unexpected acceleration." You are definitely right about being "smoked out" though.

    Loons, shills and crackpots have been a key part of this site’s demographic ever since I became aware of its existence. I didn’t know Ron Unz had imposed a sanity test.

  176. @JimDandy
    Interesting. When my Millennial girlfriend hears "American Pie" she wants to hang herself--or strangle me for deliberately antagonizing her by playing it.

    Interesting indeed. I personally hated the song, but back in the day it was useful in that it quickly got the girls in the mood to do shots.

    • LOL: JimDandy
  177. @anonymous
    This disease poses zero (0) threat to children or adults of reproductive age.

    Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.


    When will Steve admit he's wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.


    "But if one obese boomer's life can be saved by ruining ALL of our children's lives..." doesn't fly. Shame on Steve and Greg Cochran.

    Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.

    When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.

    “But if one obese boomer’s life can be saved by ruining ALL of our children’s lives…” doesn’t fly. Shame on Steve and Greg Cochran.

    I’m out of Agrees but I agree 1000%.

  178. @Joe Joe
    I would rather listen to "American Pie" 100 times than listen to "Imagine" once :-(

    I find John Lennon’s singing voice strident and obnoxious. In his later yeats, it almost became undistinguishable from Yoko Ono’s vocals. I can’t wait for a Yoko Ono covern of Imagine!

    I miss Jerry Lewis, America’s greatest humorist since Danny Kaye! Yeah, I’m part French!

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Yes, thanks for mentioning the irritation triggered by Lennon's voice.

    I'm a Gen Xer and hence a bit young to be a Beatles fan, but I can see why they were such a big thing.

    But when I've tried to listen to them I find that Lennon's voice ruins a lot of their songs. If a voice were punchable, that's Lennon's voice.

    And don't get me started on 'Imagine', which might be the most worse-than-worthless song of the 20th century.
  179. @The Alarmist
    O/T, but this is way bigger than the Pandemic ...

    The day the music died: American Pie singer Don McLean says modern hits make him 'want to hang himself' as 74-year-old slams 'nihilistic' society which respects nothing.
    ...
    McLean added that he did not intend to retire, vowing instead to 'die on stage'.


     

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209733/Don-McLean-says-modern-hits-make-want-hang-himself.html
     This is serious. We need to ban the playing of all modern music now, lest we lose Mr. McLean to this scourge.

    I don’t usually support giving in to terroristic threats …

    … but, he’s right, you know. I’ve been pushing the Government to Shut Down The Discos! since, like, 1977, and they finally got around to it just last month.

    Happy Easter, iStevers!

    • LOL: The Alarmist
  180. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time."

    Fake numbers because CDC and Drs. Poochy and Scarfy ordered hospitals to count every stiff as death by kungflu.

    #CoronaHoax

    Right! And, from Anon:

    “We may be in for a daily loss of 2000 souls for a long time.”

    2,000 people dead, you mean. Did you remember to subtract out the lawyers?

  181. @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    The first part of his statement – that modern music is nihilistic nonsense – is unarguably true.

    The second part – I’ll die on stage – is laughably stereotypical boomer nonsense.

    A real man, when he’s fed up with the nihilistic society around him, either joins a monastery or becomes a mountain man.

  182. @anonymous jew
    We're a country with a unique approach to individual freedom. That's why we're OK with 480,000 people a year dying from smoking; over 100,000 from other drugs and alcohol. That's why we allow guns, giant SUVs to all, mountaineering and other things that serve no utilitarian purpose.

    How about this: let individuals decide for themselves. Government's only role should be in facilitating that decision making. Allow job protection, extended leave, extend unemployment etc. But if an 80-year-old leukemia patient wants to attend a ball game, so be it. Maybe they've been given one month to live and their decision is more rational than any bureaucrat could know. That's the whole point of our freedoms: we know what's in our own best interest and should have the freedom to decide.

    The lockdown Nazis have taken over the world like the invasion of the body snatchers. I sort of get that - I've never had much faith in human nature. But I'm surprised by the reaction of so many here.

    Yes, if we let people decide for themselves more may die, and that's OK. Don't we still have our Constitution?

    Spot on, I.J!

    (Did you change your handle back?)

  183. @res

    the “its just the flu” crowd came closest to the truth…. – Whatever yardstick you use to measure the distance between diseases, covid is far enough from a flu to justify very strong countermeasures. During a severe flu season when 60,000 Americans die 25 million or more show symptoms and many more are infected. If covid were allowed to spread like a flu that 25 millions would have symptoms then at least 250,000 would die.
     
    I still believe that left unchecked this would have ended up somewhere between the 1918 and 1968 flu pandemics (which includes your estimate towards the lower end). So flu is a reasonable comparison. Though comparison to a "typical" flu season is not IMHO. I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen. The lower end would not. Where the exact threshold should be I expect to be a topic of vigorous debate over the weeks, months, and perhaps years ahead.

    I gave more details in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814212
    This comment links to a study of annual flu mortality in the US since 1900:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/l-a-mayor-public-should-wear-masks-but-not-n95s/#comment-3814426

    https://ajph.aphapublications.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/apha/journals/content/ajph/2008/ajph.2008.98.issue-5/ajph.2007.119933/production/images/large/doshi_f2_rev3.jpeg

    I think the high end of this range would have justified the level of shutdowns we have seen.

    The problem isn’t even just the “level” of the shutdowns but their character.

    In states run by Democrats, abortions are legal while church is frowned upon. And Lowes and Home Depot are allowed to remain open while local garden stores are forced into shut down. There is nothing that can justify the arbitrary and senseless nature of much of this shutdown.

  184. @Rosie

    The story will be was the lockdown was effective, so now they can repeat the exercise anytime the elites want.
     
    The thing is, how do we know that's not the case? I suspect it will take years of number-crunching to sort out. Icertainly understand everyone's skepticism given establishment hostility to Trump but the question is whether the authorities did the right thing given the information they had available at the time, not whether subsequent events have vindicated them or not.

    At the end of the day, I got an extended (and much-needed) vacation from my life, and now I'm waiting for a big fat check that will probably go straight into the pockets of a local home improvement service. That's hardly let-them-eat-cake tier indifference and tyranny.

    All that said, I don't run a business, so maybe I just have the knowledge to understand people's hardships.

    All that said, I don’t run a business, so maybe I just have the knowledge to understand people’s hardships.

    I’m in the same boat. I have job security. I’m “essential.”

    But I am seeing my favorite local, small businesses in danger of perishing because of rules that allow their larger competitors to continue. And that is obvious bullshit.

    Happy Easter.

    • Thanks: Rosie
  185. @Steve Sailer
    Right. Lots more drugs work in test tubes than work in bodies.

    It would be very nice if ivermectin worked in people against the WuFlu because it's pretty safe and there is a huge amount sitting on shelves in hospitals, pet shops, and farm supply stores.

    But the odds are very low for any single already approved drug. But there are lots of already approved drugs so it can't hurt to check.

    The thing about Ivermectin and even Hydroxochloroquine is that both seem to me to be ‘Anti-Parasite’ drugs

    Which is awesomely strange but interesting

    So…

    As a layman pretending to be a Doctor…

    If Anti-Parasite drugs seem to make a dent in this disease, you could just take a lot of anti-parasite supplements along with zinc absorption supplements

    and a gin and tonic 🙂

    Maybe, just maybe, you’d be part of the asymptomatic group and not Boris

  186. @Mr. Anon
    No, you stupid asshat, governors issued ukases based on the unfounded fears of unelected technocrats.

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.

    Here’s a WUSA9 news item (as in, a second-hand source) reporting what one can and cannot do during the Virginia stay-at-home order (to give one example). According to it, one is allowed to

    Engag(e) in outdoor exercises, such as walking, hiking, running, or biking while abiding by CDC social distancing guidelines.

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.

    Now, breathe into the bag… count to ten… here, squeeze the stress ball… I’ll get a napkin and a glass of water for you…

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one's own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.
  187. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Feel free to take a drive or take a walk.

     

    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/Coronavirus-UK-1261279.jpg?r=1585321425395

    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.

    Like I said, feel free to take a drive or a walk…or even bike.

    Biking is up 52% over bridges in New York City.

    Biking is up an average of 151% on trails in Philadelphia.

    Park attendance is up 30% to 50% in the most popular state parks in Maine, although many have closed visitor centers, camping, and restroom facilities.

    Nationwide, trail usage has increased nearly 200% compared to last year, according to the Rails to Trails Conservancy.

    • Replies: @res
    If you are going to post a (slightly edited) quote from an article please include the link.
    https://salud-america.org/walking-and-biking-are-way-up-during-covid-19-revealing-big-inequities-in-open-spaces/

    P.S. For everyone else, note the headline (welcome to the influencers of Corvinus's world view).
    Walking and Biking Are Way Up During COVID-19, Revealing Big Inequities in Open Spaces
    , @Mr. Anon

    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.
     
    The backstory is that the authorities were behaving like officious tools, you officious tool.
  188. @anonymous
    This disease poses zero (0) threat to children or adults of reproductive age.

    Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.


    When will Steve admit he's wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.


    "But if one obese boomer's life can be saved by ruining ALL of our children's lives..." doesn't fly. Shame on Steve and Greg Cochran.

    “Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.”

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism. Besides, Chicken Little, there are benchmarks. Let us make gather data in 3 month increments. In one year, we shall find out more clearly if your doom and gloom scenario pans out.

    “When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point.”

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.

    • Replies: @Hail

    “Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.”

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism.
     
    That flippant remark displays sorely insufficient respect for Corona, Herr Corvinus.

    I thought you were pro-CoronaPanic? What's going on?
    , @res

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.
     
    It has been entertaining to watch the strange new respect iSteve has been getting from Corvinus since we started talking about COVID-19.
  189. @Hibernian
    Actual qualified researcher:

    Knut Wittkowski (30 years of recognized expertise in epidemiology; for almost twenty years he was the Head of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design, Center for Clinical & Translational Science at Rockefeller University in New York; PhD, Computer Science, Univ. of Stuttgart, 1985; PhD, Medical Biometry, Univ. of Tübingen, 1993)

    “Actual qualified researcher”

    So are you suggesting the other medical experts from around the world are less qualified, or not even qualified to Dr. Wittkowski, when it comes to Covid-19 strategies? How is Dr. Wittkowski more qualified, or more “in tune”, compared to his peers? Please explain.

    Regarding Dr Wolfgang Wodarg, let us fact check him. Use Google Translate.

    https://www.swr.de/wissen/dr-wodarg-versucht-corona-zu-verharmlosen-100.html

    https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/ohne-fundament-arzt-nennt-corona-massnahmen-panikmache,RtaPFlQ

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/faktencheck-wolfgang-wodarg-verbreitet-thesen-die-wichtige-tatsachen-ignorieren/25654104.html

  190. @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.
    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…

    Methinks thou doth protest too much.

    Herd immunity can protect smaller concentrated populations very effectively. You don’t have to look at the whole state. Just look at Sacramento, for example.

  191. There was a story in the LA Times just this morning that seems to confirm the idea that immuity had been established in California by December or January as a result of contacts with China. Rather than having coniption fits over the destruction of your high-cost shutdown until vaccine theory, accept good news where it appears, even from us fools out here in flyover country, which does include the South Side of Chicago by the way.

    Of course nobody’s flying now, so maybe nowhere is flyover country.

  192. @The Alarmist
    What's your take on Winchester Cathedral ?

    Winchester Cathedral? It’s bringin’ me down

  193. @Dano
    American Pie is the single worst song ever written-bar none, no exceptions.
    Pure, total and complete excrescence. And yes,why YES, I DO know what it's about!
    Asking, "Well do you know what it's about?" is the SIGNATURE of the Half-Wit.

    I’ll add two more to the list of songs worse than American Pie: Donovan’s “Sunshine Superman” and “Mellow Yellow”. And at least American Pie spawned a great parody.

  194. @BenKenobi
    Jani Lane, frontman for Warrant and the fella who wrote Cherry Pie, came to deeply regret doing so.

    Here's a very honest take from the man himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR1xpknCHCQ

    He “wrote” Cherry Pie? More like scrawled with a crayon, a dark moment amid the artistic brilliance of ’80s hair-pop-metal. Whitesnake’s Slide It In is catchy and wryly observant by comparison

  195. @Federalist
    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.

    May I use this line on my blog, Federalist? (with attribution, of course)

    Your reply too, Mr. Anon. OK?

    • Replies: @Federalist
    Of course. I would be honored.
  196. @Federalist

    first responders and healthcare who are the front lines.
     
    The front lines. LOL.

    How else would who describe an emergency department in Brooklyn where every person walking in has to be assumed to be positive for Covid-19 and requires the care providers to wear PPE that they do not normally wear.

  197. @Anon87
    2 points:

    All I'm seeing of first responders are asinine Tik Tok videos of singing and dancing like morons. Not exactly MASH units.

    Aren't all deaths being recorded as corona deaths in NYC for the time being?

    If the only thing you find are tik tok videos you must not be looking very hard. There are many stories of being with patients while they die from Covid-10.

    And no, not all deaths in NYC are being recorded as Covid-19 deaths. That is a myth created by truther trolls. Of course, if one does not care how many people die from Covid-19, it makes sense to minimize the deaths and call healthcare workers liars.

  198. @Wielgus
    I had the impression some were hoping the Swedes were going to die like flies as nemesis for refusing to live like troglodytes.

    some were hoping the Swedes were going to die like flies

    “Sweden is a CoronaHeretic stronghold!” “The CoronaGod demands blood-sacrifice! Swedes must pay!”

  199. @Corvinus
    "Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone."

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism. Besides, Chicken Little, there are benchmarks. Let us make gather data in 3 month increments. In one year, we shall find out more clearly if your doom and gloom scenario pans out.

    "When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point."

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.

    “Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone.”

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism.

    That flippant remark displays sorely insufficient respect for Corona, Herr Corvinus.

    I thought you were pro-CoronaPanic? What’s going on?

  200. @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    sn’t that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He’s just a corrupt Neocon pundit who’s spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism….One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…

    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson’s theory.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson’s theory.
     
    Well sure, but you left out the meat of my argument:

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn’t anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.
     
    So if California had acquired "herd immunity" back in 2019, why didn't anyone notice the many tens of thousands of surprising "flu deaths" needed to achieve that?

    VDH is just a scientifically-illiterate Neocon shill so he never thought of that. But since you're taking his side, why don't you answer the question?
  201. @Corvinus
    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.

    Like I said, feel free to take a drive or a walk...or even bike.

    Biking is up 52% over bridges in New York City.

    Biking is up an average of 151% on trails in Philadelphia.

    Park attendance is up 30% to 50% in the most popular state parks in Maine, although many have closed visitor centers, camping, and restroom facilities.

    Nationwide, trail usage has increased nearly 200% compared to last year, according to the Rails to Trails Conservancy.

    If you are going to post a (slightly edited) quote from an article please include the link.
    https://salud-america.org/walking-and-biking-are-way-up-during-covid-19-revealing-big-inequities-in-open-spaces/

    P.S. For everyone else, note the headline (welcome to the influencers of Corvinus’s world view).
    Walking and Biking Are Way Up During COVID-19, Revealing Big Inequities in Open Spaces

  202. @Corvinus
    "Collapsing the economy and society is catastrophic for everyone."

    Not if the overall goal is to rid the world once and for all immigration and globalism. Besides, Chicken Little, there are benchmarks. Let us make gather data in 3 month increments. In one year, we shall find out more clearly if your doom and gloom scenario pans out.

    "When will Steve admit he’s wrong and was wrong the entire time? It becomes criminal not to at some point."

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.

    It has been entertaining to watch the strange new respect iSteve has been getting from Corvinus since we started talking about COVID-19.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "It has been entertaining to watch the strange new respect iSteve has been getting from Corvinus since we started talking about COVID-19."

    You mischaracterized the situation. It's not respect, it's appreciation for Mr. Sailer on a particular issue--acknowledging Covid-19 is other than a hoax. But he remains NOTICING what he wants and not necessarily the things that should warrant attention.

    "If you are going to post a (slightly edited) quote..."

    But those facts show evidence that we are able to leave our house and celebrate our freedom, contrary to Hippo's remarks.

    "welcome to the influencers of Corvinus’s world view".

    And you know this definitively in what specific ways?

  203. @Jonathan Mason
    As far as I know Trump never issued a blanket command to 'close the economy" and therefore he does not need to issue a blanket command to open it either.

    Obviously the federal government does have control over certain issues, for example it can issue "no fly" orders, close down sea and airports, close down government offices, parks, even perhaps federal highways. It can also command the military forces, customs, immigration, TSA, and so on.

    However, on 13th of March, 2020 Trump declared a national state of emergency over coronavirus.

    This allows the President to:

    1. Regulate all commerce and business transactions.
    2. Seize all privately-held gold stores.
    3. Take control of all media in the U.S.
    4. Basically capture all resources and manpower.
    5. Deploy the military inside the United States.
    6. Suspend the government of the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

    On February 15, 2019, President of the United States Donald Trump declared a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States (Proclamation 9844), citing the National Emergencies Act.

    As far as I know, this state of emergency has never been lifted either.

    As things stand, it appears that since we are under a double state of national emergency the President has the right to take such actions as commanding the US oil industry to cut production so as to boost world prices for oil, which would overrule antitrust legistlation.

    No doubt he has appointed a group of wise and judicious men and women to advise him on how such actions might benefit or harm the common weal and indeed the whole world, and merely watches Fox News for light entertainment and amusing polemics after a hard day at work.

  204. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    Wow! Best comment I’ve read on Unz so far, though that might not seem to be saying much; many of the others shouldn’t be trusted with sharp objects. But really, AD, spot on.

    • Replies: @Anon
    What makes you so much better? You come here just to piss all over the other commenters without contributing anything? Please link to anything of value you have contributed here. Being an ignorant hateful demon is much worse than merely lacking intelligence -- and I don't see too much evidence of that here either.
  205. @Anon
    One of the great presidents.

    “One of the great presidents.”

    Prolific, at least. He has the distinction of being the first of our presidents to have served in that role without having been elected to the position. Fillmore, AJohnson, Arthur, and Ford the others. Tyler had his cabinet resign on him very quickly in to the term and was soon expelled from the Whig Party. Lacking support from either Whigs or Dems, he chose to put his support behind a fellow Manifest Destiny-er, James Polk. Tyler had pretty much gotten the Texas Annexation deal done for Polk, which spurred Polk’s 4 years of great national expansion.

    • Replies: @Manfred Arcane
    Also the only President to renounce US citizenship; he became a member of the Confederate Congress and, I believe, died before the end of the war.
  206. @Federalist
    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.
  207. @Intelligent Dasein

    Anyway 60 is the new 40 and that’s the whole point that I was making into my post. Nobody dies anymore. Dying is so passé.
     
    The law of mortality has not been revoked.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you have some issues you need to come to terms with. I would recommend reexamining your casual dismissal of religion and God.

    There are plenty of theological sources I could pass on, all of them online, in the public domain, and free.

    I think you are probably taking comments intended to be ironic as literal.

    I have a lot of respect for religion and its traditions and would like to be buried one day with the same ceremonies as my ancestors for hundreds of years.

    However, as a going concern, religion seems to have had better days. Note that today is Easter Sunday, one of the two biggest Christian festival days of the year, and all of the churches are closed due to the COVID pestilence. Nobody really believes in divine protection any more, or indeed in martrydom.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    However, as a going concern, religion seems to have had better days. Note that today is Easter Sunday, one of the two biggest Christian festival days of the year, and all of the churches are closed due to the COVID pestilence.
     
    Yes, but TPTB have ensured we get plenty of access to Porn Hub and abortion.
  208. @Ron Mexico
    "One of the great presidents."

    Prolific, at least. He has the distinction of being the first of our presidents to have served in that role without having been elected to the position. Fillmore, AJohnson, Arthur, and Ford the others. Tyler had his cabinet resign on him very quickly in to the term and was soon expelled from the Whig Party. Lacking support from either Whigs or Dems, he chose to put his support behind a fellow Manifest Destiny-er, James Polk. Tyler had pretty much gotten the Texas Annexation deal done for Polk, which spurred Polk's 4 years of great national expansion.

    Also the only President to renounce US citizenship; he became a member of the Confederate Congress and, I believe, died before the end of the war.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Thanks I didn't know that / or remember that if I ever read it before.
  209. @Mr. Anon

    I hope the government permits me to leave my house on the Fourth of July so that I can celebrate my freedom.
     
    Hah. Well said. I for one will never celebrate the 4th of July again. Not that I did much anyway - it kind of became a dead letter after 911. But to do so now would be ridiculous.

    In 1776, the revolutionaries whom we honor on July 4th risked, and even sacrificed, their lives for liberty. Americans in 2020 sacrificed their liberty for an extra week on a ventillator.

    Yeah, about those ventilator thingies …

    The problem with the Western World today is that it believes it can cheat death with pills and machines, when the best it can hope for … at least for the foreseeable future … is to delay it. It doesn’t help that we talk about excess deaths, because in the long run nobody gets out alive.

  210. @Jonathan Mason
    I think you are probably taking comments intended to be ironic as literal.

    I have a lot of respect for religion and its traditions and would like to be buried one day with the same ceremonies as my ancestors for hundreds of years.

    However, as a going concern, religion seems to have had better days. Note that today is Easter Sunday, one of the two biggest Christian festival days of the year, and all of the churches are closed due to the COVID pestilence. Nobody really believes in divine protection any more, or indeed in martrydom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSd2viF6zI

    However, as a going concern, religion seems to have had better days. Note that today is Easter Sunday, one of the two biggest Christian festival days of the year, and all of the churches are closed due to the COVID pestilence.

    Yes, but TPTB have ensured we get plenty of access to Porn Hub and abortion.

  211. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @36 ulster
    Wow! Best comment I've read on Unz so far, though that might not seem to be saying much; many of the others shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects. But really, AD, spot on.

    What makes you so much better? You come here just to piss all over the other commenters without contributing anything? Please link to anything of value you have contributed here. Being an ignorant hateful demon is much worse than merely lacking intelligence — and I don’t see too much evidence of that here either.

  212. @William Badwhite

    sn’t that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He’s just a corrupt Neocon pundit who’s spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism....One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can’t understand the simplest sort of math calculations…
     
    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson's theory.

    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson’s theory.

    Well sure, but you left out the meat of my argument:

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn’t anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.

    So if California had acquired “herd immunity” back in 2019, why didn’t anyone notice the many tens of thousands of surprising “flu deaths” needed to achieve that?

    VDH is just a scientifically-illiterate Neocon shill so he never thought of that. But since you’re taking his side, why don’t you answer the question?

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I wasn't "taking his side" I was making light of your ad hominem filled screed. I know exactly who Hanson is and agree he's been a Neocon clown for quite awhile and his whole "look what I just discovered" routine about things others have known for decades long since grew old. None of the preceding "VDH bad" contradicts anything he said about CV however.

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we're now expecting for the entire country. So you may want to go back and double-check your assumptions and your math before calling others "scientifically-illiterate".

    Here's a hint: nobody is using 1% as a fatality rate for those exposed. 1% is the rate they're using for people that develop symptoms, and most people think the 1% is now high. You also used NYC numbers ("if the same thing happened in CA..."). NYC is clearly an outlier and hundreds of comments on iSteve speculate as to the reason so we don't need to get into it here.

    Your "25mm for herd immunity" confuses exposure with those developing symptoms. Are you really arguing that without the lockdown CA would end up with 25mm CV cases? In a nation that as of today is reporting 560k cases?

  213. @AnotherDad

    Is this really Trump’s biggest decision, or is it the biggest decision for governors, mayors, etc. ?
     
    Holy cow! Spot on advice to Trump from a liberal.

    Trump should in no way shape or form "order" the economy open or closed or anything else.
    -- First off, it's of dubious constitutionality, trampling all over federalism.

    -- Secondly, politically it's stupid. As soon as Trump orders a particular nationwide opening ... he owns the bounce back infections and all the further attempts to suppress them. Trump owns the crisis.

    Let the governors--i.e. the Democrat governors--own their own lockdowns. Those who do well will benefit politically, those who let the epidemic spiral out of control or who keep their citizens locked down while people in other states are free, will pay the price. This is how federalism is supposed to work. (And--free bonus--geography and weather likely means Republicans governors will still be doing better at least for another month or so. And will do better again next fall and winter.)

    Trump has done a good job of pointing out this is a Chinese--ergo globalist--created monster. And that he was out in front of the Democrats--though still way too late--in cutting off China, while the Democrats were doing hug-a-Chinex and go-to-the-Chinese-New-Year-parade. He has--properly--let the governors react to their own local situation.

    I sure hope Trump's desire to be the biggest swinging dick, doesn't lead him to screw this up and own micromanaging this crisis.

    ~~

    Trump should concentrate his attention on the *national* elements of the crisis. Briefly:

    0) Push and relay medical advice / progress.
    -- Sick staying home, hygiene, masks, etc.
    -- Preventatives--zinc, etc.
    -- Treatments--hydroxychloroquine, etc.
    -- Vaccine progress.

    1) Be a nation -- jobs and money go to Americans.
    -- Full immigration stop.
    -- Mandatory E-verify. Jobs only for Americans.
    -- Ramp up deportation
    -- No foreign students, student visas.
    -- Border stays closed, enforcement lavishly funded.
    -- While closed, get border read for health checks (temp. virus checks) and quarantine.

    2) Infrastructure spending. (Which was promised in 2016!)
    -- Build the Wall
    -- Build quarantine facilities. (At border, at airports and larger scale ones--which can be dual use with military, etc.--for quarantining returning Americans during an epidemic outbreak.)
    -- Build 1st class national infrastructure. Especially highways--upgrade more highway to safer freeways; projects that improve safety and flow. Every state highway department (heck every person probably) has a list they'd like to see. Get America's young unemployed men outside *building* stuff this summer.

    3) Repatriate industry.
    -- Repatriate all critical medical--medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment. Work out reasonable, but ASAP timelines so industry knows the market will be there.
    -- Raise tariffs on China. China is "going to pay for it".
    -- Simply leave--resign from--any "international agreement" blah, blah, blah that gets in the way. We get into trade war. Deal with it. The US is the dumping ground market.

    4) Epidemic readiness.
    -- Reform CDC (or delete and start anew) to do its job.
    -- Fire all the "racism!", "stigma!" and "quarantines don't work" ntiwits. Seriously Trump should hire a director with a mandate to go through the whole staff and fire anyone and everyone who has shown themselves to be a useless PC nitwit. Clean house.
    -- Develop active group to detect outbreaks and order appropriate *fast* border closure and quarantining procedures.
    -- All the border/quarantine infrastructure noted above.
    -- Subsidize competitive vaccine development. Pay to have groups continually working on vaccines for common cold, flu and any outstanding diseases, so we always have groups experienced and ready if any new bug pops.

    ~~ somewhat longer term ... but no time like the present ~~

    5) Pop the education/education-debt bubble.
    The current college model is an expensive, inefficient legacy boat anchor. But worse, because of PC content a national cancer. Kill it.
    -- Enable on-line learning.
    -- Create suites of certification tests.
    -- Feds hire only off these certification tests. The don't care about a degree from X,Y,Z.
    (Seriously no is smart or educated because they "went to Harvard". They are smart and knowledgeable because they had the basic processing hardware and read and studied and worked problems or researched and wrote papers. None of this requires ivy covered buildings or actually sitting in the same room with professor X blabbing at you. It requires intelligence, reading and work.)

    5) Push eugenic American natality.
    -- Huge tax deduction. (Deduction, not credit--so mildly eugenic.) For young children. When a productive working middle class couple decides to have kids ... they should actually be leaving the tax rolls. All their money devoted to having kids. Idea is to raise natality and enable stay-at-home motherhood.
    -- Vaccinations and such--all covered for kids.

    6) Wall Street pays.
    Wall Street globalists, along with minoritarian open borders Democrats--sometimes the same people--gave us this crisis. They pay. And we cut them down to size.
    -- 1/2% transaction tax. Any asset sale or transaction pays. All swaps and everything else--no loopholes--none. Quacks like a duck--you pay. Try and do it overseas--you pay.
    1/2% is absolutely no barrier to actual finance of productive investment. But it's an ass kick to speculative bullshit.

    ~

    Trump wants to win and actually deliver for his voters and the nation--there you go.

    Stay out of micromanaging business across 50 states with wildly different infection rates, density and weather and instead enact a nationalist agenda that gets America back up running and makes life and the future better for Americans and their children and grandchildren.

    MAGA

    “ — No foreign students, student visas.”
    Hell, yeah! I live near Stanford and that campus has been crawling with Chicom “princelings” for years. Get rid of ‘em! I’d be nice to see the Saudi “princes” go away, too.

  214. @Ron Unz

    Well that screed was certainly a well-written and compelling refutation of Hanson’s theory.
     
    Well sure, but you left out the meat of my argument:

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn’t anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and “herd immunity” would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let’s say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of “the flu.” Strange that I didn’t read about it in my newspapers.
     
    So if California had acquired "herd immunity" back in 2019, why didn't anyone notice the many tens of thousands of surprising "flu deaths" needed to achieve that?

    VDH is just a scientifically-illiterate Neocon shill so he never thought of that. But since you're taking his side, why don't you answer the question?

    I wasn’t “taking his side” I was making light of your ad hominem filled screed. I know exactly who Hanson is and agree he’s been a Neocon clown for quite awhile and his whole “look what I just discovered” routine about things others have known for decades long since grew old. None of the preceding “VDH bad” contradicts anything he said about CV however.

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we’re now expecting for the entire country. So you may want to go back and double-check your assumptions and your math before calling others “scientifically-illiterate”.

    Here’s a hint: nobody is using 1% as a fatality rate for those exposed. 1% is the rate they’re using for people that develop symptoms, and most people think the 1% is now high. You also used NYC numbers (“if the same thing happened in CA…”). NYC is clearly an outlier and hundreds of comments on iSteve speculate as to the reason so we don’t need to get into it here.

    Your “25mm for herd immunity” confuses exposure with those developing symptoms. Are you really arguing that without the lockdown CA would end up with 25mm CV cases? In a nation that as of today is reporting 560k cases?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we’re now expecting for the entire country...Your “25mm for herd immunity” confuses exposure with those developing symptoms.
     
    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates. I assume you're just one of the ranting rightwingers who hangs around my website.

    You don't even seem to understand what "herd immunity" means. In California, it would probably mean something like 25M infections. It's utterly ridiculous to believe that the Coronavirus is only as dangerous as "the flu" but even "the flu" has a fatality rate of something like 0.1%. So under your really stupid theory, over 12K extra Californians would have died last year from "the flu." (Obviously the regular flu would have killed the usual number).

    Over the last couple of months, NY has been (very gradually) moving towards "herd immunity" as more and more people get infected. As a consequence, Coronavirus deaths have been running at well over 1,000/day in New York for the last week or so, which has attracted some media attention. Or do you believe that they're all "crisis actors."

    Since CA has twice the population of NY, achieving "herd immunity" during 2019 would have involved *vastly* larger death-spikes. So why didn't I hear about it in my newspapers?

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.
  215. @William Badwhite
    I wasn't "taking his side" I was making light of your ad hominem filled screed. I know exactly who Hanson is and agree he's been a Neocon clown for quite awhile and his whole "look what I just discovered" routine about things others have known for decades long since grew old. None of the preceding "VDH bad" contradicts anything he said about CV however.

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we're now expecting for the entire country. So you may want to go back and double-check your assumptions and your math before calling others "scientifically-illiterate".

    Here's a hint: nobody is using 1% as a fatality rate for those exposed. 1% is the rate they're using for people that develop symptoms, and most people think the 1% is now high. You also used NYC numbers ("if the same thing happened in CA..."). NYC is clearly an outlier and hundreds of comments on iSteve speculate as to the reason so we don't need to get into it here.

    Your "25mm for herd immunity" confuses exposure with those developing symptoms. Are you really arguing that without the lockdown CA would end up with 25mm CV cases? In a nation that as of today is reporting 560k cases?

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we’re now expecting for the entire country…Your “25mm for herd immunity” confuses exposure with those developing symptoms.

    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates. I assume you’re just one of the ranting rightwingers who hangs around my website.

    You don’t even seem to understand what “herd immunity” means. In California, it would probably mean something like 25M infections. It’s utterly ridiculous to believe that the Coronavirus is only as dangerous as “the flu” but even “the flu” has a fatality rate of something like 0.1%. So under your really stupid theory, over 12K extra Californians would have died last year from “the flu.” (Obviously the regular flu would have killed the usual number).

    Over the last couple of months, NY has been (very gradually) moving towards “herd immunity” as more and more people get infected. As a consequence, Coronavirus deaths have been running at well over 1,000/day in New York for the last week or so, which has attracted some media attention. Or do you believe that they’re all “crisis actors.”

    Since CA has twice the population of NY, achieving “herd immunity” during 2019 would have involved *vastly* larger death-spikes. So why didn’t I hear about it in my newspapers?

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Nice ad hominem filled screed Chicken Little. By the way, I think you need to learn the difference between science and math.

    I'll keep an eye out for your 125,000 CV deaths in CA.

    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates
     
    Says the guy that thinks 1% exposed to CV die.

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.
     
    I never said it was a hoax Boomer. I get that you're really old and scared of death, but try to calm down and stop acting like an old woman.
    , @William Badwhite
    I found this pic of you. Looking good

    http://www.quickmeme.com/img/cc/cceaebe67d07d81268ec6c4d4af586dce539332f0ae46809290e6847e367795e.jpg
  216. anon[681] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fzo32b/ultimate_theory_all_the_pieces_put_together/

    That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.

    (Also, perhaps some current tests only detect one variant, and others detect both.)

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect...That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.
     
    Sure, that's possible. But there's really zero evidence for that idiotic VDH theory about CA having acquired "herd immunity" during 2019. When a ranting Neocon with no scientific knowledge proposes a shocking scientific theory and is too ignorant to even consider its obvious flaws, I can't see why anyone would bother to take it seriously.

    It's pretty obvious where all this nonsense all came from. VDH and lots of rightwingers (including many commenters here) are always denouncing CA for being "totally dysfunctional" because it's so overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic and immigrant. So naturally CA would do the worst job of controlling the outbreak of a deadly new disease, especially if it came from China and so many Chinese people live here. A horrible plague in CA would allow them to gloat.

    But instead CA did the *best* job in America, and the federal government under Trump did the *worst* job. That's because although CA politics has lots of liberal-nonsense, the actual government leadership, both statewide and local, is really pretty competent. Also since CA is a one-party Democratic state, there aren't any bitter ideological wars to slow things down.

    So these empirical results on a top national issue make VDH and his friends at Hoover look totally ridiculous. And instead of admitting he was wrong, he comes up with a scientifically-illiterate theory to explain it away, which naturally goes over big at National Review and FoxNews (and some of the ignorant commenters here).
  217. @adreadline
    Here's a WUSA9 news item (as in, a second-hand source) reporting what one can and cannot do during the Virginia stay-at-home order (to give one example). According to it, one is allowed to

    Engag(e) in outdoor exercises, such as walking, hiking, running, or biking while abiding by CDC social distancing guidelines.
     

    And you are a craven, sniveling, vile knave.
     
    Now, breathe into the bag... count to ten... here, squeeze the stress ball... I'll get a napkin and a glass of water for you...

    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one’s own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.

    • Replies: @adreadline

    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one’s own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.
     
    I'm a craven sniveling knave for linking to a news item which contradicts what you said? Come on, man. It's bad unelected monarchs like Mr. Northram don't allow you to even take a breath of fresh air under the threat of execution, but what you're doing is also really not cool. Just saying.
  218. @Corvinus
    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.

    Like I said, feel free to take a drive or a walk...or even bike.

    Biking is up 52% over bridges in New York City.

    Biking is up an average of 151% on trails in Philadelphia.

    Park attendance is up 30% to 50% in the most popular state parks in Maine, although many have closed visitor centers, camping, and restroom facilities.

    Nationwide, trail usage has increased nearly 200% compared to last year, according to the Rails to Trails Conservancy.

    What is the backstory behind that photograph? It would provide context.

    The backstory is that the authorities were behaving like officious tools, you officious tool.

  219. @BB753
    I find John Lennon's singing voice strident and obnoxious. In his later yeats, it almost became undistinguishable from Yoko Ono's vocals. I can't wait for a Yoko Ono covern of Imagine!

    https://youtu.be/ZBgwxnn45Ho

    https://youtu.be/kEGTV8usZsI

    I miss Jerry Lewis, America's greatest humorist since Danny Kaye! Yeah, I'm part French!

    Yes, thanks for mentioning the irritation triggered by Lennon’s voice.

    I’m a Gen Xer and hence a bit young to be a Beatles fan, but I can see why they were such a big thing.

    But when I’ve tried to listen to them I find that Lennon’s voice ruins a lot of their songs. If a voice were punchable, that’s Lennon’s voice.

    And don’t get me started on ‘Imagine’, which might be the most worse-than-worthless song of the 20th century.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    I belong to the same generation. But my father exposed me to the Beatles since childhood, although older than Boomers, he liked their early 1960-164 work. I can also sing almost every Frank Sinatra song ever recorded, out of tune, lol. I used to be a great Frank Sinatra fan, now not so much. Funny how tastes change as you grow older. As for the Beatles, I can't stand them anymore, even though I used to like them, like almost everybody did. Yeah, Lennon was a good rhythm guitar player but he had an annoying voice, like Neil Young and the singer from Rush.
    Looking back, sixties music was overrated and will not pass the test of time, as popular music rarely ever does.
    It's nostalgia for old folks.
  220. @Anon
    Liberals are fussing because they're bearing the burden of the deaths. Covid-19 is hitting our bigger cities harder, and they are filled with Democratic voters. Liberal politicians realize they're seeing voters and supporters die. Liberals are terrified of Covid-19 because they don't want to anger their voters. Cities cannot afford to keep their voting base afloat economically because most of them have little cash, and can't even pay pensions. They can't prevent their citizens from dying from Covid-19 except by drastic action. They can't prevent their hospitals from being overwhelmed except by drastic quarantine.

    Our cities depend on the US Federal government to bail out their citizens financially. Liberals politicians want this cash without any ties to Trump as the benefactor. Liberals intend to use any more bailout packages as a chance to create more liberal legislation on the back of a pandemic. If they want to play politics, I say Trump should open up the economy again--quietly--and let cities take the brunt. He should dump the decision on big city mayors. Cities aren't going to vote for him in 2020 anyway. They're going to see either their death rates spike and hospitals crushed, or they'll become poor from losing jobs. But if the government can't give people money without Democratic strings attached, then it's time to stop coddling cities and their huge masses of liberal voters. Let them take their losses--either in people or money. Trump should force big city mayors to make that choice, so any decision made by big city mayors will stick to big city Democratic mayors, and they'll take the blame for the mess afterwards.

    Frankly, we'd have herd immunity in 1 month if we just let Covid-19 happen. We should have done this anyway, instead of trying to away hide from life and its burdens.

    “We should have done this anyway…”

    It is interesting how many people say this now but for some reason it never occurred to them to say it at the beginning of March. Hmm.

    I would welcome people producing links to where people were making these arguments a month or 6 weeks ago. But as I recall nobody was paying much attention. Including the doctors I work with.

    I feel differently every other day. But my feel today is that we (the US) could get away with under 1.5 million confirmed infections and 60,000 dead by June 1st. The numbers are trending that way. Then, whether it is warranted or not the lockdown will begin to lift mid-May. 5 years from now we will have forgotten about it as a nation like we did the Iraq War, Bin-Laden, and the 2008 finance meltdown. People will forget what year this happened.

    Other days it feels like the end of the world.

  221. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    Why do people hate me? Is it because I demand all the bling of civilization for none of the work? Because I kidnap innocent people into an impenetrable punishment system? Is it because I mishandled a plague, was caught on video deliberately spreading it, tried to grab all the protective gear of others to sell back to them, and then tried to cover for that by persecuting foreigners living in my territory?
    Naaaaaaaaaaaw, what it is, y'see, is these Russian hackers ...

    The sentiments reflected in 4chan's forum, researchers said, also were linked to conspiracy theories surrounding Asian people and coronavirus. One claim suggested that coronavirus is a bioweapon created by China's government and transmitted by Chinese people.
     
    I missed that one, but there are hours of video of Chinese people spitting on groceries, doorknobs, and people, there's Chinese people caught on camera buying up PPE from before it was known to be necessary, and there's the now undisputed deadly dishonesty of the government, so, yeah, what about any of that is theoretical?

    "If we see violence [sic] and hateful rhetoric stemming from subcultural communities, we need to be able to track these communications in real time to see what they're talking about," said Alex Goldenberg, an analyst at the institute and one of the authors of the study.

    Though the racist sentiments may begin in smaller subcultures on 4chan, Goldenberg said they also make their way onto mainstream social media platforms, like Twitter, Instagram and Reddit.
     
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/us/sinophobic-racism-rise-coronavirus-research-trnd/index.html

    Misery loves company. When the Chinese realized the scale of this epidemic they tried to spread it to as many foreigners as possible so China wouldn’t suffer the hit alone.

    It’s similar to the old stories of AIDS-infected homosexuals taking jobs in hospital blood banks and deliberately contaminating the supplies.

    “It’s your problem too damn it.”

  222. @anon
    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fzo32b/ultimate_theory_all_the_pieces_put_together/

    That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.

    (Also, perhaps some current tests only detect one variant, and others detect both.)

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect…That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.

    Sure, that’s possible. But there’s really zero evidence for that idiotic VDH theory about CA having acquired “herd immunity” during 2019. When a ranting Neocon with no scientific knowledge proposes a shocking scientific theory and is too ignorant to even consider its obvious flaws, I can’t see why anyone would bother to take it seriously.

    It’s pretty obvious where all this nonsense all came from. VDH and lots of rightwingers (including many commenters here) are always denouncing CA for being “totally dysfunctional” because it’s so overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic and immigrant. So naturally CA would do the worst job of controlling the outbreak of a deadly new disease, especially if it came from China and so many Chinese people live here. A horrible plague in CA would allow them to gloat.

    But instead CA did the *best* job in America, and the federal government under Trump did the *worst* job. That’s because although CA politics has lots of liberal-nonsense, the actual government leadership, both statewide and local, is really pretty competent. Also since CA is a one-party Democratic state, there aren’t any bitter ideological wars to slow things down.

    So these empirical results on a top national issue make VDH and his friends at Hoover look totally ridiculous. And instead of admitting he was wrong, he comes up with a scientifically-illiterate theory to explain it away, which naturally goes over big at National Review and FoxNews (and some of the ignorant commenters here).

    • Replies: @anon
    I haven't read the VDH theory, but I don't disagree with your criticism of it being plausible, and I agree the California response to COVID19 has been especially competent and successful.

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it's not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the "unexplained pneumonia" cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19, well before they would have been likely to catch it as part of the currently observed "wave" -- often before it was a known thing at all. There are a dozen or so stories of that kind just among my local neighborhoods on nextdoor.com! (Somewhere in CA.) Some of them (reported now) date back to December (IIRC).

    , @MarkinLA
    Not arguing in support of VDH but the claim that California did the "best" job sure does seem to be that way according to the CNN stats for cases per 100K and deaths per 100K. There are plenty of states with better stats than California.

    Maybe the reason why states like California look so much better than New York has less to do with what the government did than the natural spacing of the people. People in the northeast corridor live in tightly bunched apartments and townhouse and in California they live in detached houses so there is just more distance for the virus to travel to infect somebody else. Even your average restaurant probably see less people in an hour than in a place like NYC.

    , @MarkinLA
    Meant to it did NOT seem like California.
  223. @res

    LOL! Speaking truth, albeit cagey at times, about this REAL situation is not criminal.
     
    It has been entertaining to watch the strange new respect iSteve has been getting from Corvinus since we started talking about COVID-19.

    “It has been entertaining to watch the strange new respect iSteve has been getting from Corvinus since we started talking about COVID-19.”

    You mischaracterized the situation. It’s not respect, it’s appreciation for Mr. Sailer on a particular issue–acknowledging Covid-19 is other than a hoax. But he remains NOTICING what he wants and not necessarily the things that should warrant attention.

    “If you are going to post a (slightly edited) quote…”

    But those facts show evidence that we are able to leave our house and celebrate our freedom, contrary to Hippo’s remarks.

    “welcome to the influencers of Corvinus’s world view”.

    And you know this definitively in what specific ways?

    • LOL: res
  224. @Mr. Anon
    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one's own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.

    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one’s own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.

    I’m a craven sniveling knave for linking to a news item which contradicts what you said? Come on, man. It’s bad unelected monarchs like Mr. Northram don’t allow you to even take a breath of fresh air under the threat of execution, but what you’re doing is also really not cool. Just saying.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Not cool"?

    Idiot.
  225. @Manfred Arcane
    Also the only President to renounce US citizenship; he became a member of the Confederate Congress and, I believe, died before the end of the war.

    Thanks I didn’t know that / or remember that if I ever read it before.

  226. @Ron Unz

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we’re now expecting for the entire country...Your “25mm for herd immunity” confuses exposure with those developing symptoms.
     
    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates. I assume you're just one of the ranting rightwingers who hangs around my website.

    You don't even seem to understand what "herd immunity" means. In California, it would probably mean something like 25M infections. It's utterly ridiculous to believe that the Coronavirus is only as dangerous as "the flu" but even "the flu" has a fatality rate of something like 0.1%. So under your really stupid theory, over 12K extra Californians would have died last year from "the flu." (Obviously the regular flu would have killed the usual number).

    Over the last couple of months, NY has been (very gradually) moving towards "herd immunity" as more and more people get infected. As a consequence, Coronavirus deaths have been running at well over 1,000/day in New York for the last week or so, which has attracted some media attention. Or do you believe that they're all "crisis actors."

    Since CA has twice the population of NY, achieving "herd immunity" during 2019 would have involved *vastly* larger death-spikes. So why didn't I hear about it in my newspapers?

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.

    Nice ad hominem filled screed Chicken Little. By the way, I think you need to learn the difference between science and math.

    I’ll keep an eye out for your 125,000 CV deaths in CA.

    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates

    Says the guy that thinks 1% exposed to CV die.

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.

    I never said it was a hoax Boomer. I get that you’re really old and scared of death, but try to calm down and stop acting like an old woman.

  227. @theMann
    Actually, Trump can do every one of those things. It is called enforcing the First Amendment to the Constitution.

    Just remember, every one of the lockdowns are 1) Unconstitutional, therefore illegal 2) immoral 3) and counterproductive, since staying inside is the worst possible response to the seasonal flu\cold\virus.


    Given the grotesquely illegal actions of the political class, medical fraud, medical incompetence, Gigantic deliberate lies on the part of the Media, and the truly catastrophic effects of mass unemployment, I doubt the lawsuits are ever going to stop. Which will be secondary to the rampaging of the Unemployed, coming soon to a city near you.

    Can Trump force the New Jersey Governor to open the schools ? Open the State Parks ? Open the Casinos ? Open bowling alleys and movie theaters ?

    Or will the governors appeal to the liberal courts and stop any Presidential orders ?
    Will the President send in troops to force New Jersey to open their beaches, parks and restaurants ?

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    The US government claims that even stuff that hasn't entered interstate commerce is under their control; try to make a NEW machine gun in your state and tell the BATF that you haven't violated the law because it hasn't entered interstate commerce.

    "Will the President send in troops to force New Jersey to open their beaches, parks and restaurants ?"

    The US Marines invading the beaches of the People's Republic of NJ would undoubtedly be welcomed with open arms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIb0vmUGcyM
  228. @Ron Unz

    As far as the meat of your argument goes, you came up with 125,00 extra deaths in CA alone (assuming enough exposed to get to herd immunity). This is at least double the deaths we’re now expecting for the entire country...Your “25mm for herd immunity” confuses exposure with those developing symptoms.
     
    Look, Hoaxers like you are clearly just scientific illiterates. I assume you're just one of the ranting rightwingers who hangs around my website.

    You don't even seem to understand what "herd immunity" means. In California, it would probably mean something like 25M infections. It's utterly ridiculous to believe that the Coronavirus is only as dangerous as "the flu" but even "the flu" has a fatality rate of something like 0.1%. So under your really stupid theory, over 12K extra Californians would have died last year from "the flu." (Obviously the regular flu would have killed the usual number).

    Over the last couple of months, NY has been (very gradually) moving towards "herd immunity" as more and more people get infected. As a consequence, Coronavirus deaths have been running at well over 1,000/day in New York for the last week or so, which has attracted some media attention. Or do you believe that they're all "crisis actors."

    Since CA has twice the population of NY, achieving "herd immunity" during 2019 would have involved *vastly* larger death-spikes. So why didn't I hear about it in my newspapers?

    Hoaxers like you are just a total bunch of retards.

    I found this pic of you. Looking good

  229. anon[597] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect...That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.
     
    Sure, that's possible. But there's really zero evidence for that idiotic VDH theory about CA having acquired "herd immunity" during 2019. When a ranting Neocon with no scientific knowledge proposes a shocking scientific theory and is too ignorant to even consider its obvious flaws, I can't see why anyone would bother to take it seriously.

    It's pretty obvious where all this nonsense all came from. VDH and lots of rightwingers (including many commenters here) are always denouncing CA for being "totally dysfunctional" because it's so overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic and immigrant. So naturally CA would do the worst job of controlling the outbreak of a deadly new disease, especially if it came from China and so many Chinese people live here. A horrible plague in CA would allow them to gloat.

    But instead CA did the *best* job in America, and the federal government under Trump did the *worst* job. That's because although CA politics has lots of liberal-nonsense, the actual government leadership, both statewide and local, is really pretty competent. Also since CA is a one-party Democratic state, there aren't any bitter ideological wars to slow things down.

    So these empirical results on a top national issue make VDH and his friends at Hoover look totally ridiculous. And instead of admitting he was wrong, he comes up with a scientifically-illiterate theory to explain it away, which naturally goes over big at National Review and FoxNews (and some of the ignorant commenters here).

    I haven’t read the VDH theory, but I don’t disagree with your criticism of it being plausible, and I agree the California response to COVID19 has been especially competent and successful.

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it’s not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the “unexplained pneumonia” cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19, well before they would have been likely to catch it as part of the currently observed “wave” — often before it was a known thing at all. There are a dozen or so stories of that kind just among my local neighborhoods on nextdoor.com! (Somewhere in CA.) Some of them (reported now) date back to December (IIRC).

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it’s not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the “unexplained pneumonia” cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19
     
    Well possibly, but I'm really very skeptical. The Coronavirus is such a gigantic story right now that it's easy to imagine lots of people thinking back to when they were sick last year and imagining that they might have had it. They're certainly not lying, but it's just human psychology.

    Here's another reason the VDH California "herd immunity" theory is so totally ridiculous. Every now and then, they've discovered that a small outbreak among local police, fire, or TSA workers, and naturally tested all of them. But each time only a couple were found to have been infected, meaning that 98% or so have never been exposed. Imagine CA having "herd immunity" while 98% of the individuals most likely to be infected haven't been.

    Incidentally, Godfree Roberts, one of the writers here, regularly promotes PRC propaganda, and he favorably cited the VDH theory ("Stanford researchers"), then became quite embarrassed when I explained just who VDH was and why the theory didn't make any sense:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831499

    Roberts has been repeatedly promoting the notion of a 2019 Coronavirus outbreak in the US, and I ridiculed his theory as rather transparent and extremely poor quality PRC propaganda:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3788148
  230. @Travis
    Can Trump force the New Jersey Governor to open the schools ? Open the State Parks ? Open the Casinos ? Open bowling alleys and movie theaters ?

    Or will the governors appeal to the liberal courts and stop any Presidential orders ?
    Will the President send in troops to force New Jersey to open their beaches, parks and restaurants ?

    The US government claims that even stuff that hasn’t entered interstate commerce is under their control; try to make a NEW machine gun in your state and tell the BATF that you haven’t violated the law because it hasn’t entered interstate commerce.

    “Will the President send in troops to force New Jersey to open their beaches, parks and restaurants ?”

    The US Marines invading the beaches of the People’s Republic of NJ would undoubtedly be welcomed with open arms.

  231. @adreadline

    Oh, how magnanimous of bossman Northam to permit his subjects such liberties.

    How about just going about one’s own damned business unmolested?

    Perhaps you are a craven sniveling knave too.
     
    I'm a craven sniveling knave for linking to a news item which contradicts what you said? Come on, man. It's bad unelected monarchs like Mr. Northram don't allow you to even take a breath of fresh air under the threat of execution, but what you're doing is also really not cool. Just saying.

    “Not cool”?

    Idiot.

  232. @anon
    You had a kid at 61?!?

    Apparently so. What of it?
    President Tyler fathered children in his 60's, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.

    President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.

    And he has two living grandsons.

    • Replies: @BB753
    No small feat in those pre-Viagra days!
  233. @anon
    I haven't read the VDH theory, but I don't disagree with your criticism of it being plausible, and I agree the California response to COVID19 has been especially competent and successful.

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it's not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the "unexplained pneumonia" cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19, well before they would have been likely to catch it as part of the currently observed "wave" -- often before it was a known thing at all. There are a dozen or so stories of that kind just among my local neighborhoods on nextdoor.com! (Somewhere in CA.) Some of them (reported now) date back to December (IIRC).

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it’s not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the “unexplained pneumonia” cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19

    Well possibly, but I’m really very skeptical. The Coronavirus is such a gigantic story right now that it’s easy to imagine lots of people thinking back to when they were sick last year and imagining that they might have had it. They’re certainly not lying, but it’s just human psychology.

    Here’s another reason the VDH California “herd immunity” theory is so totally ridiculous. Every now and then, they’ve discovered that a small outbreak among local police, fire, or TSA workers, and naturally tested all of them. But each time only a couple were found to have been infected, meaning that 98% or so have never been exposed. Imagine CA having “herd immunity” while 98% of the individuals most likely to be infected haven’t been.

    Incidentally, Godfree Roberts, one of the writers here, regularly promotes PRC propaganda, and he favorably cited the VDH theory (“Stanford researchers”), then became quite embarrassed when I explained just who VDH was and why the theory didn’t make any sense:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831499

    Roberts has been repeatedly promoting the notion of a 2019 Coronavirus outbreak in the US, and I ridiculed his theory as rather transparent and extremely poor quality PRC propaganda:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3788148

    • Replies: @anon
    Maybe you are right that it was not here in December. If the "ADE theory" I linked to is true, maybe here in CA we're only experiencing our *first* variant, so the effect is relatively light... and when the second one hits later, we'll be in trouble. Maybe in NYC they're in worse shape already, since they're already experiencing their second variant. (Speculation, but can it be ruled out? Are enough viral genomes being collected and published that something like this would be noticed?)

    (OTOH if our local R0 < 1, maybe we'll escape the second variant for the time being.)

  234. @ben tillman

    President Tyler fathered children in his 60’s, up to the age of 70. With his second wife, of course.
     
    And he has two living grandsons.

    No small feat in those pre-Viagra days!

  235. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Yes, thanks for mentioning the irritation triggered by Lennon's voice.

    I'm a Gen Xer and hence a bit young to be a Beatles fan, but I can see why they were such a big thing.

    But when I've tried to listen to them I find that Lennon's voice ruins a lot of their songs. If a voice were punchable, that's Lennon's voice.

    And don't get me started on 'Imagine', which might be the most worse-than-worthless song of the 20th century.

    I belong to the same generation. But my father exposed me to the Beatles since childhood, although older than Boomers, he liked their early 1960-164 work. I can also sing almost every Frank Sinatra song ever recorded, out of tune, lol. I used to be a great Frank Sinatra fan, now not so much. Funny how tastes change as you grow older. As for the Beatles, I can’t stand them anymore, even though I used to like them, like almost everybody did. Yeah, Lennon was a good rhythm guitar player but he had an annoying voice, like Neil Young and the singer from Rush.
    Looking back, sixties music was overrated and will not pass the test of time, as popular music rarely ever does.
    It’s nostalgia for old folks.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    What makes the Beatles and the 60s stand out is just how much garbage is out there now. If the 60s won't stand the test of time the 90s, 00s, and 10s will be gone long before that.
  236. @Ron Unz

    This supports the idea that California had massive early exposure to Covid-19, triggering herd immunity.
     
    Isn't that the totally crackpot theory of Victor Davis Hanson, who has zero background in science or medicine? He's just a corrupt Neocon pundit who's spent the last two decades ranting about Islamo-Fascism. So when did he suddenly become an expert on contagious diseases?

    Right now, NY is getting an extra 1,000-1,500 deaths each day from the Coronavirus outbreak, which has only infected a fairly small fraction of the NY population. If the same thing had happened last year to everyone in California, why didn't anyone notice it?

    California has 40M people, and "herd immunity" would kick in after maybe 25M had been infected. Let's say the Coronavirus fatality rate is only 0.5% rather than the 1% most believe use. That still means 125K Californians would have died last year of "the flu." Strange that I didn't read about it in my newspapers.

    One positive aspect of this horrible epidemic is that its really smoked out quite a lot of loons, shills, and crackpots, plus dimwits who can't understand the simplest sort of math calculations...

    Thanks for your thoughtful comment. No, this was just brought up in a lab meeting by an actual overworked ER doc who said he had actually looked in an actual hospital database and filtered actual patient data and found this actual result.

    Here’s another possibility for you to consider. This outbreak might just be full of all kinds of “unknown unknowns” and your various ideas about this particular novel Coronavirus are just not applicable. The existence of a novel virus really does smoke out the dimwits, even the highly educated ones, no doubt.

    BTW, now that I have you on the line, Ron, why do you put it out on the internet that you have nice copies of Astounding and other science fiction magazines online, and then you fucking don’t allow people in the US to view them? I appreciate unz.com, but that really grinds my gears.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    BTW, now that I have you on the line, Ron, why do you put it out on the internet that you have nice copies of Astounding and other science fiction magazines online, and then you fucking don’t allow people in the US to view them?
     
    Unfortunately, they're still under copyright...
  237. anon[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mainly I just wanted to point out that speculative theory I linked to (it’s not my theory, BTW). If something like it is true, it could explain some weird apparent facts like the “unexplained pneumonia” cases attributed to vaping last year, and the many anecdotes of people who think they had something like a mild case of COVID19
     
    Well possibly, but I'm really very skeptical. The Coronavirus is such a gigantic story right now that it's easy to imagine lots of people thinking back to when they were sick last year and imagining that they might have had it. They're certainly not lying, but it's just human psychology.

    Here's another reason the VDH California "herd immunity" theory is so totally ridiculous. Every now and then, they've discovered that a small outbreak among local police, fire, or TSA workers, and naturally tested all of them. But each time only a couple were found to have been infected, meaning that 98% or so have never been exposed. Imagine CA having "herd immunity" while 98% of the individuals most likely to be infected haven't been.

    Incidentally, Godfree Roberts, one of the writers here, regularly promotes PRC propaganda, and he favorably cited the VDH theory ("Stanford researchers"), then became quite embarrassed when I explained just who VDH was and why the theory didn't make any sense:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831499

    Roberts has been repeatedly promoting the notion of a 2019 Coronavirus outbreak in the US, and I ridiculed his theory as rather transparent and extremely poor quality PRC propaganda:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3788148

    Maybe you are right that it was not here in December. If the “ADE theory” I linked to is true, maybe here in CA we’re only experiencing our *first* variant, so the effect is relatively light… and when the second one hits later, we’ll be in trouble. Maybe in NYC they’re in worse shape already, since they’re already experiencing their second variant. (Speculation, but can it be ruled out? Are enough viral genomes being collected and published that something like this would be noticed?)

    (OTOH if our local R0 < 1, maybe we'll escape the second variant for the time being.)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The fashion industry links New York and Milan, with a lot of socializing people going back and forth between the two cities. Maybe New York got hit by the Italian variant, while the West Coast got the less dangerous East Asian version?
  238. @anon
    Maybe you are right that it was not here in December. If the "ADE theory" I linked to is true, maybe here in CA we're only experiencing our *first* variant, so the effect is relatively light... and when the second one hits later, we'll be in trouble. Maybe in NYC they're in worse shape already, since they're already experiencing their second variant. (Speculation, but can it be ruled out? Are enough viral genomes being collected and published that something like this would be noticed?)

    (OTOH if our local R0 < 1, maybe we'll escape the second variant for the time being.)

    The fashion industry links New York and Milan, with a lot of socializing people going back and forth between the two cities. Maybe New York got hit by the Italian variant, while the West Coast got the less dangerous East Asian version?

  239. @Anon7
    Thanks for your thoughtful comment. No, this was just brought up in a lab meeting by an actual overworked ER doc who said he had actually looked in an actual hospital database and filtered actual patient data and found this actual result.

    Here’s another possibility for you to consider. This outbreak might just be full of all kinds of “unknown unknowns” and your various ideas about this particular novel Coronavirus are just not applicable. The existence of a novel virus really does smoke out the dimwits, even the highly educated ones, no doubt.

    BTW, now that I have you on the line, Ron, why do you put it out on the internet that you have nice copies of Astounding and other science fiction magazines online, and then you fucking don’t allow people in the US to view them? I appreciate unz.com, but that really grinds my gears.

    BTW, now that I have you on the line, Ron, why do you put it out on the internet that you have nice copies of Astounding and other science fiction magazines online, and then you fucking don’t allow people in the US to view them?

    Unfortunately, they’re still under copyright…

  240. @BB753
    I belong to the same generation. But my father exposed me to the Beatles since childhood, although older than Boomers, he liked their early 1960-164 work. I can also sing almost every Frank Sinatra song ever recorded, out of tune, lol. I used to be a great Frank Sinatra fan, now not so much. Funny how tastes change as you grow older. As for the Beatles, I can't stand them anymore, even though I used to like them, like almost everybody did. Yeah, Lennon was a good rhythm guitar player but he had an annoying voice, like Neil Young and the singer from Rush.
    Looking back, sixties music was overrated and will not pass the test of time, as popular music rarely ever does.
    It's nostalgia for old folks.

    What makes the Beatles and the 60s stand out is just how much garbage is out there now. If the 60s won’t stand the test of time the 90s, 00s, and 10s will be gone long before that.

    • Agree: BB753
  241. @Ron Unz

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect...That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.
     
    Sure, that's possible. But there's really zero evidence for that idiotic VDH theory about CA having acquired "herd immunity" during 2019. When a ranting Neocon with no scientific knowledge proposes a shocking scientific theory and is too ignorant to even consider its obvious flaws, I can't see why anyone would bother to take it seriously.

    It's pretty obvious where all this nonsense all came from. VDH and lots of rightwingers (including many commenters here) are always denouncing CA for being "totally dysfunctional" because it's so overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic and immigrant. So naturally CA would do the worst job of controlling the outbreak of a deadly new disease, especially if it came from China and so many Chinese people live here. A horrible plague in CA would allow them to gloat.

    But instead CA did the *best* job in America, and the federal government under Trump did the *worst* job. That's because although CA politics has lots of liberal-nonsense, the actual government leadership, both statewide and local, is really pretty competent. Also since CA is a one-party Democratic state, there aren't any bitter ideological wars to slow things down.

    So these empirical results on a top national issue make VDH and his friends at Hoover look totally ridiculous. And instead of admitting he was wrong, he comes up with a scientifically-illiterate theory to explain it away, which naturally goes over big at National Review and FoxNews (and some of the ignorant commenters here).

    Not arguing in support of VDH but the claim that California did the “best” job sure does seem to be that way according to the CNN stats for cases per 100K and deaths per 100K. There are plenty of states with better stats than California.

    Maybe the reason why states like California look so much better than New York has less to do with what the government did than the natural spacing of the people. People in the northeast corridor live in tightly bunched apartments and townhouse and in California they live in detached houses so there is just more distance for the virus to travel to infect somebody else. Even your average restaurant probably see less people in an hour than in a place like NYC.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    There are plenty of states with better stats than California.
     
    Sure, but most of those states haven't really been hit yet, which is a huge factor in an exponentially-spreading disease with a very long infection-to-death period. California was ground-zero of the Coronavirus back when nobody even realized New York had much of a problem. Now the situation is entirely reversed, and NY will probably end up with 30-40x the per capita deaths.

    Take Michigan. It's first death was less than a month ago, but its exponential growth means it now vies with NY and NJ for the hardest-hit state.

    Maybe North Dakota and Wyoming will never have a serious outbreak. Who knows? But for most of the larger states, let's wait another month or two before ranking the winners and losers.
  242. @Achmed E. Newman
    May I use this line on my blog, Federalist? (with attribution, of course)


    Your reply too, Mr. Anon. OK?

    Of course. I would be honored.

  243. @Ron Unz

    One possible explanation: an infection by two variants of the virus, at different times, combined with an antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) effect...That is, an initial infection late last year, widespread but rarely causing serious cases, followed by a later one (now) with a slightly variant virus, which triggers this ADE effect, making both viruses much deadlier.
     
    Sure, that's possible. But there's really zero evidence for that idiotic VDH theory about CA having acquired "herd immunity" during 2019. When a ranting Neocon with no scientific knowledge proposes a shocking scientific theory and is too ignorant to even consider its obvious flaws, I can't see why anyone would bother to take it seriously.

    It's pretty obvious where all this nonsense all came from. VDH and lots of rightwingers (including many commenters here) are always denouncing CA for being "totally dysfunctional" because it's so overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic and immigrant. So naturally CA would do the worst job of controlling the outbreak of a deadly new disease, especially if it came from China and so many Chinese people live here. A horrible plague in CA would allow them to gloat.

    But instead CA did the *best* job in America, and the federal government under Trump did the *worst* job. That's because although CA politics has lots of liberal-nonsense, the actual government leadership, both statewide and local, is really pretty competent. Also since CA is a one-party Democratic state, there aren't any bitter ideological wars to slow things down.

    So these empirical results on a top national issue make VDH and his friends at Hoover look totally ridiculous. And instead of admitting he was wrong, he comes up with a scientifically-illiterate theory to explain it away, which naturally goes over big at National Review and FoxNews (and some of the ignorant commenters here).

    Meant to it did NOT seem like California.

  244. @MarkinLA
    Not arguing in support of VDH but the claim that California did the "best" job sure does seem to be that way according to the CNN stats for cases per 100K and deaths per 100K. There are plenty of states with better stats than California.

    Maybe the reason why states like California look so much better than New York has less to do with what the government did than the natural spacing of the people. People in the northeast corridor live in tightly bunched apartments and townhouse and in California they live in detached houses so there is just more distance for the virus to travel to infect somebody else. Even your average restaurant probably see less people in an hour than in a place like NYC.

    There are plenty of states with better stats than California.

    Sure, but most of those states haven’t really been hit yet, which is a huge factor in an exponentially-spreading disease with a very long infection-to-death period. California was ground-zero of the Coronavirus back when nobody even realized New York had much of a problem. Now the situation is entirely reversed, and NY will probably end up with 30-40x the per capita deaths.

    Take Michigan. It’s first death was less than a month ago, but its exponential growth means it now vies with NY and NJ for the hardest-hit state.

    Maybe North Dakota and Wyoming will never have a serious outbreak. Who knows? But for most of the larger states, let’s wait another month or two before ranking the winners and losers.

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