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From Quartz:

Trump is quietly swamping visa applicants in extra paperwork

REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE

For H-1B visa petitioners, Trump=more paperwork.
Ana Campoy

January 11, 2018

The H-1B visa, which allows American companies to hire skilled foreign workers, from engineers to fashion models, is under siege.

Last year, Trump’s “Buy American and Hire American” executive order suggested that H-1Bs should be more difficult to get. Congress and the Trump administration have been mulling ways to limit the visa’s availability to Indian workers. But obtaining an H-1B visa has already quietly become more cumbersome since Donald Trump became president, not through any change in the law, but through bureaucracy.

One indicator of that is a spike in “requests for evidence,” which are notices the US Citizen and Immigration Services department sends to H-1B applicants requesting more information. Such requests, known as RFEs, are a routine part of the visa process. Their purpose is to ensure that the agency (USCIS) only grants visas to people who meet the criteria. But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants say they are now getting unwarranted requests, and in bigger numbers, than in the past.

The data back their claims, at least in terms of volume. From last January to November, the office issued around 40% more RFEs than in all of 2016, and 65% more than in all of 2015, USCIS data shows.

It’s almost as if it matters whose side the President is on.

 
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  1. But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants

    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Moses


    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    I am amazed how many immigration lawyers are foreigners, immigrants and offspring of immigrants. Pisses me off! They are so arrogant they don't bother with an Anglo first name or Anglo nickname.

    Replies: @guest

    , @whorefinder
    @Moses


    Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    As a Remora-American, I am insulted you would compare me to a lawyer. An outrage, I say sir!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Stephen Marle
    @Moses


    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    I think that the Justice Department should do whatever it can in changing and clarifying legal ethics such that judges take a closer look at immigration attorneys.

    A common pattern that I've noticed in newspaper articles about immigrants from Central America is that the authorities say that an illegal alien in her initial interview gave as her reason for coming of greater economic opportunity. But then an immigration attorney gets hold of her and she suddenly is talking about witnessing murders left and right in her community, gang members threatening her and her family, and so on. And a refugee application is made.

    You'd think that something so traumatic would not have been forgotten in the initial interview.

    Someone, maybe Justice, should be keeping track of immigration attorneys: If every single one of their clients files for refugee status with a story that differs from the initial intake interview, a judge should bring in the attorney for a talk. If this continues, the attorney should be barred from immigration cases. Remember, the State Department, even under President Obama, has declined almost all refugee applications for Central American countries, and they all have stable, operating governments. The local consular officials know the local conditions, and they should be making the calls on site. There are ways to deal with any dangers there without coming to the U.S.

    And in the end, if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, move to a safer city in your own country. Don't cross multiple international borders and travel 1,000 miles illegally. If I'm feeling unsafe in Watts, do I move to Canada? I think Torrance would be sufficient.
    , @Thomm
    @Moses


    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    Of course. It would be far better to just abolish H1-B altogether. If tech companies need a foreign worker, they can either a) work through the O-1 visa if the applicant is qualified enough, or b) outsource the job to the applicant's country of origin.
  2. I thought D’s were in favor of more government?

    • Replies: @guest
    @whorefinder

    Not if it means more dogs and firehoses turned on numinous protesters, more abstinence education, more foreign wars for oil interests (wars for tranny rights would be fine, however), or more immigration paperwork.

  3. And in the 5D chess, asymmetric warfare news…. Isn’t the Trump Administration also doing this to the refugee racketeers?

  4. @Moses

    But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants
     
    Well there's our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    Replies: @Clyde, @whorefinder, @Stephen Marle, @Thomm

    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    I am amazed how many immigration lawyers are foreigners, immigrants and offspring of immigrants. Pisses me off! They are so arrogant they don’t bother with an Anglo first name or Anglo nickname.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Clyde

    That is the least surprising thing in the world.

    That the native population doesn't at least tease them about it (leaving them to cry amongst the farmland) is surprising, I guess.

  5. But obtaining an H-1B visa has already quietly become more cumbersome since Donald Trump became president, not through any change in the law, but through bureaucracy.

    Well Obama never did anything lile that now did he?

  6. “swamping”

    Trump’s inside their head.

  7. @Moses

    But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants
     
    Well there's our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    Replies: @Clyde, @whorefinder, @Stephen Marle, @Thomm

    Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    As a Remora-American, I am insulted you would compare me to a lawyer. An outrage, I say sir!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @whorefinder


    As a Remora-American, I am insulted you would compare me to a lawyer. An outrage, I say sir!
     
    And as a Cremora-American, I must remind you that we are capable of violent reaction:

    http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/cremora-fireballs.asp

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61k743mQBxL._SX355_.jpg

  8. I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    You can also show all H1b visas/job title/salary for a given company.

    I was surprised to learn there were so many h1bs in my relatively small city.

    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    @27 year old

    That is a great site (although in an angry way). Thanks 27 year old.

    , @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    , @J.Ross
    @27 year old

    This is fantastic. Imagine targeting information so that residents of a not-too-successful community, who had not known about H1B's all around them, are informed of job opportunities they never had a fair shot at.

    , @Anon
    @27 year old

    If I'm reading this correctly, my medium-sized city is trying to fill 151 positions and offering salaries with a median amount of 62K per year. Frankly, there would be a lot of native US citizens happy to fill these jobs, which are mostly upper-class jobs from what I can tell. They're advertising for scientists, programmers, and medical people. They want brains.

    Replies: @bomag

  9. I’m not jumping up and down in excitement just yet. There is an annual quota of ~100,000 H1B visas that is greatly oversubscribed. It doesn’t matter if the process of obtaining them becomes more burdensome than before if this doesn’t lead to an actual reduction in the number of Indians obtaining them each year. I mean, I gratuitously like that they have to put up with more bullshit and perhaps lose some hair as part of the process, but so long as the numbers coming over here each year don’t go down, what difference does it make? Wake me up if at the end of the fiscal year we’ve actually go H1b visas left unclaimed.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    @Felix...

    If they can slow down renewals so that fewer H-1Bs stay from year to year waiting for green cards and instead just go home, that's a great improvement.

  10. California, at the urging of the ACLU and the Women’s League of Voters, has decided that it is too much effort for an applicant for a drivers license to also have to fill out a voter’s registration card. So, from now on, when you apply for a drivers license, you are automatically enrolled as a voter. They have previously determined that it is wrong to ask about the applicant’s citizenship. California is swamped in leftist bilge water.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    @Buffalo Joe

    "So, from now on, when you apply for a drivers license, you are automatically enrolled as a voter."

    What is needed is someone who can explain to the illegals that they don't have to vote for the Democratic candidate presented to them; they can elect their own candidate. Then things will start to change.

    , @yourbunnywrote
    @Buffalo Joe

    How will this work with the TSA's new ID requirements. The new drivers licensees that will be valid to fly or take Amtrak require proof of citizenship to acquire.......

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I know someone who got an RFE whose H1b was ultimately approved, so I assumed the increase in RFEs was mostly Kabuki or Potemkin or whatever the appropriate metaphor is. An attempt to create the appearance of a Trumpian regime at USCIS. Lo and behold, from the same article:

    USCIS approved more than 90% of the H1B applications it processed in fiscal 2017, but that rate dipped below 85% in the first two months of fiscal 2018.

    Dr. Evil voice: five……percent fewer approvals….

    In fairness, appearances matter, as I believe we’ve seen in the diminished number of border crossings.

  12. @Moses

    But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants
     
    Well there's our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    Replies: @Clyde, @whorefinder, @Stephen Marle, @Thomm

    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    I think that the Justice Department should do whatever it can in changing and clarifying legal ethics such that judges take a closer look at immigration attorneys.

    A common pattern that I’ve noticed in newspaper articles about immigrants from Central America is that the authorities say that an illegal alien in her initial interview gave as her reason for coming of greater economic opportunity. But then an immigration attorney gets hold of her and she suddenly is talking about witnessing murders left and right in her community, gang members threatening her and her family, and so on. And a refugee application is made.

    You’d think that something so traumatic would not have been forgotten in the initial interview.

    Someone, maybe Justice, should be keeping track of immigration attorneys: If every single one of their clients files for refugee status with a story that differs from the initial intake interview, a judge should bring in the attorney for a talk. If this continues, the attorney should be barred from immigration cases. Remember, the State Department, even under President Obama, has declined almost all refugee applications for Central American countries, and they all have stable, operating governments. The local consular officials know the local conditions, and they should be making the calls on site. There are ways to deal with any dangers there without coming to the U.S.

    And in the end, if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, move to a safer city in your own country. Don’t cross multiple international borders and travel 1,000 miles illegally. If I’m feeling unsafe in Watts, do I move to Canada? I think Torrance would be sufficient.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  13. OT rumored Han Solo movie spoilers
    http://boards.4chan.org/tv/thread/93945946
    Last Star Wars movie spoiler thread proved pretty accurate. If this one is true then they’re not out of the woods yet.
    tldr Han cannot do anything right and is saved and outshone at every turn by an entirely new Mary Sue character. We never learn how he met and came to befriend a large inarticulate dog, which was probably the one smart move.

    • Replies: @guest
    @J.Ross

    Why do they keep casting Emilia Clarke? She can't act and won't be showing tits or ass in a Disney Star Wars film, so what's the point?

    There's a reason Hollywood used to segregate movie and t.v. talent.

  14. Doesn’t this article put the lie to the previous iSteve post of an anonymous Reddit post on H1Bs?

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/trump-administration-sweating-the-small-stuff-on-immigration/

    Anyway, the typical scenario is that every year, a stack of visas goes in for renewal and about a week later they come back stamped [APPROVED]. Very easy. At the start of this year, instead of coming back approved, each application came back with a huge list of questions and requests for documentation about why the applicants were being paid so little. The lawyers were confused and assembled a huge pile of documentation for each applicant and sent it back. Every single application then came back with either more questions or a denial. EVERY SINGLE ONE is either in limbo or denied (you must go back!). I’ve heard this from multiple sources, including several who had their visas held up.

    As a result of this, our company’s HR department has quietly decided (I heard this through the grapevine talking to several department heads) to no longer hire employees that need sponsorship. I’ve talked with recruiters and with people I know in several other companies in the area and I’ve heard similar stories everywhere. Pretty much unless you’re making 120k a year on a visa, you’re going to get yanked. …

    This seems like an urban legend born from a grain of truth, which truth is expressed in the Quartz article linked here.

    Rather than outright denials and insurmountable paperwork, there is more and annoying paperwork, and perhaps some companies with urgent deadlines deciding to concel applications on their side.

    The data back their claims, at least in terms of volume. From last January to November, the office issued around 40% more RFEs than in all of 2016, and 65% more than in all of 2015, USCIS data shows.

    For those awaiting work permits and the companies wanting to hire them, an RFE is bad news. While it doesn’t necessarily derail a petition, it makes the process longer and more expensive. Rounding up the documents to address USCIS concerns, submitting them, and awaiting an answer can take two to three months, says Diane Rish, associate director of government relations at the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Stephen Marle

    I don't trust the Reddit post. It is anecdotal with little to no prove. Just one guy's unsubstantiated claim.

    If you read the Quartz article, it says the REFs only really increased by 20%, and that 90% of H1B applications still eventually got approved in 2017.

  15. @27 year old
    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    You can also show all H1b visas/job title/salary for a given company.

    I was surprised to learn there were so many h1bs in my relatively small city.

    Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is..., @Thomm, @J.Ross, @Anon

    That is a great site (although in an angry way). Thanks 27 year old.

  16. It’s just all smoke and mirrors. The end result is basically unchanged. From the article:

    H-1B hopefuls will also be watching approval rates. USCIS approved more than 90% of the H1B applications it processed in fiscal 2017, but that rate dipped below 85% in the first two months of fiscal 2018.

  17. @Stephen Marle
    Doesn't this article put the lie to the previous iSteve post of an anonymous Reddit post on H1Bs?

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/trump-administration-sweating-the-small-stuff-on-immigration/

    Anyway, the typical scenario is that every year, a stack of visas goes in for renewal and about a week later they come back stamped [APPROVED]. Very easy. At the start of this year, instead of coming back approved, each application came back with a huge list of questions and requests for documentation about why the applicants were being paid so little. The lawyers were confused and assembled a huge pile of documentation for each applicant and sent it back. Every single application then came back with either more questions or a denial. EVERY SINGLE ONE is either in limbo or denied (you must go back!). I’ve heard this from multiple sources, including several who had their visas held up.

    As a result of this, our company’s HR department has quietly decided (I heard this through the grapevine talking to several department heads) to no longer hire employees that need sponsorship. I’ve talked with recruiters and with people I know in several other companies in the area and I’ve heard similar stories everywhere. Pretty much unless you’re making 120k a year on a visa, you’re going to get yanked. …
     
    This seems like an urban legend born from a grain of truth, which truth is expressed in the Quartz article linked here.

    Rather than outright denials and insurmountable paperwork, there is more and annoying paperwork, and perhaps some companies with urgent deadlines deciding to concel applications on their side.

    The data back their claims, at least in terms of volume. From last January to November, the office issued around 40% more RFEs than in all of 2016, and 65% more than in all of 2015, USCIS data shows.

    For those awaiting work permits and the companies wanting to hire them, an RFE is bad news. While it doesn’t necessarily derail a petition, it makes the process longer and more expensive. Rounding up the documents to address USCIS concerns, submitting them, and awaiting an answer can take two to three months, says Diane Rish, associate director of government relations at the American Immigration Lawyers Association.
     

    Replies: @anon

    I don’t trust the Reddit post. It is anecdotal with little to no prove. Just one guy’s unsubstantiated claim.

    If you read the Quartz article, it says the REFs only really increased by 20%, and that 90% of H1B applications still eventually got approved in 2017.

  18. I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn’t have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Wilkey

    "I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. "

    Not at all. Those scam artists (many with fake degrees) actually ruin US economy because of their shoddy code. Most of them work for body shops like Infosys, Tata,..etc. that get contracts from large and medium companies. When they have done their damage they move on to prey on another companies. Indians are famous for latching to successful companies and ruined them. If they are so good how come there is not even one notable software/hardware product built by Indians. Not even one! Here is a list of Western companies ruined by Indians compiled many years ago. I am sure the list is much longer now.


    Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
    AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
    AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
    Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
    Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
    Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
    Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
    Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
    Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
    Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
    Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
    ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
    Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
    Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
    Dell - call center (closed in India)
    Delta call centers (closed in India)
    Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
    GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
    HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!
    HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
    Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
    JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
    Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
    Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
    Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
    MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
    MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.
    PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
    PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.
    Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
    Qantas - See AirBus above
    Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
    Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
    SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
    Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
    Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
    State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
    State of Texas failed IBM project.
    Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
    UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
    Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.
    United - call center (closed in India)
    Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
    Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
    World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Anonymous

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Wilkey

    In addition to all that, Wilkey, the immigration bureaucracy has got to start finding the visa overstayers and deporting them with no additional entry allowed. It's not mostly some tourists who didn't catch their flights home in time.

    Do you know that it is very easy for the Chinese people to get 10-year tourist visas now? This is to match the same from the Chinese, but they take this stuff seriously over there. Sure, you're not supposed to stay 10 years straight (the visa would say "multiple entries" with a 10 year expiration date and maybe 3 months or 6 max per stay).

    Think about this: If nobody comes looking for some Chinaman (or Chinawoman) who doesn't return after the 3 months, do you seriously think he even can be found after 10 years living in a Chinatown somewhere. The thing about our country now is, since we have large groups of foreigners living here, anyone who is not legally here can blend in and not be found easily, simply based on the "they all look the same" syndrome, which is very much true.

    Try being a westerner in China and deciding you're gonna flout immigration law. It's not just that it's taken seriously, but there are no "Americatowns", "Enlgishtowns" or just general "RoundEyetowns". You've got no place to hide.

    Yeah, it ain't fair.

    , @Stephen Marle
    @Wilkey


    I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue.
     
    Do these H1Bs go back to India at some point, or is the H1B more of a soft green card with a real green card and naturalization waiting down the line for most of them?

    From what I've heard, there are plenty of while males 40 years old and up who can do that work, but they want more money and reasonable work hours, and they creep out the 30-something managers just by being old, and by giving them lip if they feel their experience gives them a relevant take on things.

    In theory, any employment visa has to be advertised for qualified citizens. I wonder if they do that, but just lowball the salary? That's an abuse. If they advertise in the Dunkustown Gazette, that's an abuse.

    One way to attack H1Bs would be for someone (an out of work 50-year-old programmer?) to aggregate all programmer job postings in Silicon Valley, etc., that seem to be insincere H1B ads, and get qualified older American programmers to go in for interviews and report back. The strategy would be to ask for twice the stated salary. Then the aggregation site would watch for cancellations of the ads and then repostings. Establish a pattern of insincere ads, qualified Americans, cancelled postings, new postings for the same job, etc. In other words, never let these fake job ads go unanswered by American citizens, no matter what the offered salary.

    Maybe report to the immigration people in an aggregated manner all such ads and the company names. Make it impossible for companies to comply with the requirement to seek American programmers and get the visa. State could tell companies, "We've been informed that qualified citizens exist and have contacted you, but that the offered salary is way, way out of line with the market. What do you have to say to that? H1B exists to fill jobs for which there are no citizens, not to fill jobs more cheaply. By the way, please direct all future renewals to Department X rather than to the normal address. We want to take a closer look at them."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @guest
    @Wilkey

    The most sympathetic? Eh. What's the difference between zero sympathy and as close as possible to zero without technically being zero sympathy?

    , @nebulafox
    @Wilkey

    Easy way to prevent abuse of immigrants and native workers alike: a law stating that an H1-B or H2-B visa is required to have financial compensation on par with the local average salary for an American worker, on pain of fines and imprisonment for the employer. In Silicon Valley, that will mean six digits, and that will dampen corporate enthusiasm for the visa programs.

    Replies: @Thomm

  19. @whorefinder
    @Moses


    Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    As a Remora-American, I am insulted you would compare me to a lawyer. An outrage, I say sir!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    As a Remora-American, I am insulted you would compare me to a lawyer. An outrage, I say sir!

    And as a Cremora-American, I must remind you that we are capable of violent reaction:

    http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/cremora-fireballs.asp

  20. @Moses

    But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants
     
    Well there's our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    Replies: @Clyde, @whorefinder, @Stephen Marle, @Thomm

    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.

    Of course. It would be far better to just abolish H1-B altogether. If tech companies need a foreign worker, they can either a) work through the O-1 visa if the applicant is qualified enough, or b) outsource the job to the applicant’s country of origin.

  21. @Felix...
    I'm not jumping up and down in excitement just yet. There is an annual quota of ~100,000 H1B visas that is greatly oversubscribed. It doesn't matter if the process of obtaining them becomes more burdensome than before if this doesn't lead to an actual reduction in the number of Indians obtaining them each year. I mean, I gratuitously like that they have to put up with more bullshit and perhaps lose some hair as part of the process, but so long as the numbers coming over here each year don't go down, what difference does it make? Wake me up if at the end of the fiscal year we've actually go H1b visas left unclaimed.

    Replies: @(((Owen)))

    If they can slow down renewals so that fewer H-1Bs stay from year to year waiting for green cards and instead just go home, that’s a great improvement.

  22. @27 year old
    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    You can also show all H1b visas/job title/salary for a given company.

    I was surprised to learn there were so many h1bs in my relatively small city.

    Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is..., @Thomm, @J.Ross, @Anon

    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for ‘wage suppression’ reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    • Replies: @anon
    @Thomm

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    I don't remember anyone actually ever saying that, but OK.

    The point I think he was trying to make, though, is that they're not all in Silicon Valley. I looked up my city, and there were a bunch of applications (that were accepted) for jobs like "physical therapist" for around $40,000. Don't you imagine they could probably have found a few of those in America?

    Replies: @Sandmich, @MaMu1977

    , @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Anon, @Thomm, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    , @bomag
    @Thomm


    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.
     
    Since when are "innumerate WNs" the critics one should answer regarding H1-b?

    Wage growth has been markedly stagnant, in no small part due to immigration; H1-b's effects cascade through the system like anything else.

    Replies: @Thomm, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Thomm

    You have never demonstrated any knowledge of mathematics here. So - tell us - how much math have you had? Tell us why we should be impressed by your claims to be so much smarter than everyone else, you idiot blowhard.

    , @Ozymandias
    @Thomm

    "So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage."

    Yes, what has the WNs up in arms is the loss of those coveted minimum wage jobs. What piercing insight you possess.

    Replies: @Thomm

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Thomm


    innumerate
     
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey
    I'm by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn't have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stephen Marle, @guest, @nebulafox

    “I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. ”

    Not at all. Those scam artists (many with fake degrees) actually ruin US economy because of their shoddy code. Most of them work for body shops like Infosys, Tata,..etc. that get contracts from large and medium companies. When they have done their damage they move on to prey on another companies. Indians are famous for latching to successful companies and ruined them. If they are so good how come there is not even one notable software/hardware product built by Indians. Not even one! Here is a list of Western companies ruined by Indians compiled many years ago. I am sure the list is much longer now.

    Adaptec – Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
    AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
    AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
    Apple – R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
    Australia’s National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
    Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
    Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
    Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
    Caymas – Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
    Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
    Circuit City – Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
    ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
    Computer Associates – Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
    Deloitte – 2010 – this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
    Dell – call center (closed in India)
    Delta call centers (closed in India)
    Fannie Mae – Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
    GM – Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
    HP – Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can’t compete with Apple’s tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for ‘Asian’ talent!
    HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
    Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
    JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas – which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
    Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
    Medicare – Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
    Microsoft – Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it’s lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
    MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
    MyNines – A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America’s VC $ down the drain.
    PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
    PepsiCo – Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi’ watch.
    Polycom – Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
    Qantas – See AirBus above
    Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
    Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
    SAP – Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
    Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
    Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
    State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
    State of Texas failed IBM project.
    Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
    UK’s NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
    Union Bank of California – Cancelled Finacle project run by India’s InfoSys in 2011.
    United – call center (closed in India)
    Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
    Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
    World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @Anonymous

    And you haven't even touched on the stench and the overcrowding. Anytime I read comments approving or merely accepting, even begrudgingly, the H1-B racket as involving smart, productive people who contribute I know this person has no actual experience of the Santa Clara Valley or even the technology sector writ large.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    You left out by far the most important one (at least to people of a certain age): Commodore.

  24. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I would prefer the IT firms simply move these jobs to where their workers are, than moving them all here. People bring with them their cultural baggage. It’s not just the workers coming in, they bring the wives, the kids, the parents, the siblings, the whole freaking village, and their freaking weird language and culture, which the libtards are telling them to hang on to.

    Much of the west coast is already like China or India wherever you go, with English being the 3rd or 4th language. These people are rude, loud, pushy, selfish, can’t drive, can’t speak English, annoying as heck. If I want to be around rude pushy Chinese or Indian people all day I’d move to China or India. But the corporatocracy is making sure I don’t even need to move anymore, they’ll just bring China and India to me, turning us into United States of MexChindia.

    Can we please for Pete’s sake go back to our separate worlds? End the H1b altogether! We need a 20 year moratorium on immigration.

  25. @Wilkey
    I'm by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn't have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stephen Marle, @guest, @nebulafox

    In addition to all that, Wilkey, the immigration bureaucracy has got to start finding the visa overstayers and deporting them with no additional entry allowed. It’s not mostly some tourists who didn’t catch their flights home in time.

    Do you know that it is very easy for the Chinese people to get 10-year tourist visas now? This is to match the same from the Chinese, but they take this stuff seriously over there. Sure, you’re not supposed to stay 10 years straight (the visa would say “multiple entries” with a 10 year expiration date and maybe 3 months or 6 max per stay).

    Think about this: If nobody comes looking for some Chinaman (or Chinawoman) who doesn’t return after the 3 months, do you seriously think he even can be found after 10 years living in a Chinatown somewhere. The thing about our country now is, since we have large groups of foreigners living here, anyone who is not legally here can blend in and not be found easily, simply based on the “they all look the same” syndrome, which is very much true.

    Try being a westerner in China and deciding you’re gonna flout immigration law. It’s not just that it’s taken seriously, but there are no “Americatowns”, “Enlgishtowns” or just general “RoundEyetowns”. You’ve got no place to hide.

    Yeah, it ain’t fair.

  26. @27 year old
    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    You can also show all H1b visas/job title/salary for a given company.

    I was surprised to learn there were so many h1bs in my relatively small city.

    Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is..., @Thomm, @J.Ross, @Anon

    This is fantastic. Imagine targeting information so that residents of a not-too-successful community, who had not known about H1B’s all around them, are informed of job opportunities they never had a fair shot at.

  27. @Wilkey
    I'm by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn't have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stephen Marle, @guest, @nebulafox

    I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue.

    Do these H1Bs go back to India at some point, or is the H1B more of a soft green card with a real green card and naturalization waiting down the line for most of them?

    From what I’ve heard, there are plenty of while males 40 years old and up who can do that work, but they want more money and reasonable work hours, and they creep out the 30-something managers just by being old, and by giving them lip if they feel their experience gives them a relevant take on things.

    In theory, any employment visa has to be advertised for qualified citizens. I wonder if they do that, but just lowball the salary? That’s an abuse. If they advertise in the Dunkustown Gazette, that’s an abuse.

    One way to attack H1Bs would be for someone (an out of work 50-year-old programmer?) to aggregate all programmer job postings in Silicon Valley, etc., that seem to be insincere H1B ads, and get qualified older American programmers to go in for interviews and report back. The strategy would be to ask for twice the stated salary. Then the aggregation site would watch for cancellations of the ads and then repostings. Establish a pattern of insincere ads, qualified Americans, cancelled postings, new postings for the same job, etc. In other words, never let these fake job ads go unanswered by American citizens, no matter what the offered salary.

    Maybe report to the immigration people in an aggregated manner all such ads and the company names. Make it impossible for companies to comply with the requirement to seek American programmers and get the visa. State could tell companies, “We’ve been informed that qualified citizens exist and have contacted you, but that the offered salary is way, way out of line with the market. What do you have to say to that? H1B exists to fill jobs for which there are no citizens, not to fill jobs more cheaply. By the way, please direct all future renewals to Department X rather than to the normal address. We want to take a closer look at them.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Stephen Marle

    In addition those H1B needs to be tested on the skills they claim they are good at. And the test needs to be administered by white Americans, not another Indian. I have yet to see Indians good at anything besides spelling bees.

  28. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    I don’t remember anyone actually ever saying that, but OK.

    The point I think he was trying to make, though, is that they’re not all in Silicon Valley. I looked up my city, and there were a bunch of applications (that were accepted) for jobs like “physical therapist” for around $40,000. Don’t you imagine they could probably have found a few of those in America?

    • Replies: @Sandmich
    @anon

    The smallish "bedroom" community where I live has one H1-B, an "interior designer" jotted down for ~$22,000/yr, which is around a buck more an hour than the state minimum wage But, to your point, it smells like a scam to me.

    , @MaMu1977
    @anon

    "Physical therapist", from H1-B to English, probably means "hand job dispenser". If the approved applicant is a decent-looking East or West Asian chick, confirm the latter.

  29. Good news for India. More work for low-paid workers to fill out forms. Just a delay, nothing more

  30. @Stephen Marle
    @Wilkey


    I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue.
     
    Do these H1Bs go back to India at some point, or is the H1B more of a soft green card with a real green card and naturalization waiting down the line for most of them?

    From what I've heard, there are plenty of while males 40 years old and up who can do that work, but they want more money and reasonable work hours, and they creep out the 30-something managers just by being old, and by giving them lip if they feel their experience gives them a relevant take on things.

    In theory, any employment visa has to be advertised for qualified citizens. I wonder if they do that, but just lowball the salary? That's an abuse. If they advertise in the Dunkustown Gazette, that's an abuse.

    One way to attack H1Bs would be for someone (an out of work 50-year-old programmer?) to aggregate all programmer job postings in Silicon Valley, etc., that seem to be insincere H1B ads, and get qualified older American programmers to go in for interviews and report back. The strategy would be to ask for twice the stated salary. Then the aggregation site would watch for cancellations of the ads and then repostings. Establish a pattern of insincere ads, qualified Americans, cancelled postings, new postings for the same job, etc. In other words, never let these fake job ads go unanswered by American citizens, no matter what the offered salary.

    Maybe report to the immigration people in an aggregated manner all such ads and the company names. Make it impossible for companies to comply with the requirement to seek American programmers and get the visa. State could tell companies, "We've been informed that qualified citizens exist and have contacted you, but that the offered salary is way, way out of line with the market. What do you have to say to that? H1B exists to fill jobs for which there are no citizens, not to fill jobs more cheaply. By the way, please direct all future renewals to Department X rather than to the normal address. We want to take a closer look at them."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    In addition those H1B needs to be tested on the skills they claim they are good at. And the test needs to be administered by white Americans, not another Indian. I have yet to see Indians good at anything besides spelling bees.

  31. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Do these H1Bs go back to India at some point…”

    They marry (usually arranged by the parents; having an H1B is one of the first things listed in the classifieds in the Indian papers where people in search of an arrangement post such things) and then have kids in the US, etc..

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @anonymous

    Yep. My Indian ex-boyfriend did exactly this. Student visa, H1B with a job, arranged marriage, green card, American kids, eventually he and his wife became citizens.

  32. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @27 year old
    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.

    You can also show all H1b visas/job title/salary for a given company.

    I was surprised to learn there were so many h1bs in my relatively small city.

    Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is..., @Thomm, @J.Ross, @Anon

    If I’m reading this correctly, my medium-sized city is trying to fill 151 positions and offering salaries with a median amount of 62K per year. Frankly, there would be a lot of native US citizens happy to fill these jobs, which are mostly upper-class jobs from what I can tell. They’re advertising for scientists, programmers, and medical people. They want brains.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anon


    They’re advertising for scientists, programmers, and medical people. They want brains.
     
    Sort of, but when you are advertising for a complete cardiology unit in Pikeville KY at almost a half mil a year per job, maybe we should think twice about what we are doing.

    Surprising how many relatively average jobs were advertised, and especially jobs by gov't agencies. It's become an easy advertising outlet.

    So we have the specter of tax money being used to further the immigration tsunami in service to job slots that are largely optional; just funded slots the bureaucrat class doesn't want to lose.

  33. Man’s inhumanity to man. Kafkaesque.

    By the way, someone needs to make a horror film for a high-IQ audience about being attacked by paperwork.

  34. @whorefinder
    I thought D's were in favor of more government?

    Replies: @guest

    Not if it means more dogs and firehoses turned on numinous protesters, more abstinence education, more foreign wars for oil interests (wars for tranny rights would be fine, however), or more immigration paperwork.

  35. @Clyde
    @Moses


    Well there’s our problem right there. Lawyers feed off immigration. Like remoras.
     
    I am amazed how many immigration lawyers are foreigners, immigrants and offspring of immigrants. Pisses me off! They are so arrogant they don't bother with an Anglo first name or Anglo nickname.

    Replies: @guest

    That is the least surprising thing in the world.

    That the native population doesn’t at least tease them about it (leaving them to cry amongst the farmland) is surprising, I guess.

  36. @J.Ross
    OT rumored Han Solo movie spoilers
    http://boards.4chan.org/tv/thread/93945946
    Last Star Wars movie spoiler thread proved pretty accurate. If this one is true then they're not out of the woods yet.
    tldr Han cannot do anything right and is saved and outshone at every turn by an entirely new Mary Sue character. We never learn how he met and came to befriend a large inarticulate dog, which was probably the one smart move.

    Replies: @guest

    Why do they keep casting Emilia Clarke? She can’t act and won’t be showing tits or ass in a Disney Star Wars film, so what’s the point?

    There’s a reason Hollywood used to segregate movie and t.v. talent.

  37. @Wilkey
    I'm by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn't have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stephen Marle, @guest, @nebulafox

    The most sympathetic? Eh. What’s the difference between zero sympathy and as close as possible to zero without technically being zero sympathy?

  38. “… lawyers who represent H-1B applicants say they are now getting unwarranted requests, and in bigger numbers, than in the past.”

    Are they charging flat-fee or billable hours? If the former, they’re annoyed that Trump is cutting into their margins. If the latter, they’re feeling the heat from clients (likely the sponsoring company, not the immigrant). In either case this is a good thing.

  39. @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Autochthon

    Thomm does not realize that. Because he is innumerate, as he accuses others of being.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Autochthon

    It's possible that $120,00 is divided still more. Do Indians remit money back to thier families in India, as many Mexicans do?

    Replies: @Autochthon

    , @Thomm
    @Autochthon


    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of?
     
    Irrelevant. Non-tech people like schoolteachers, waitresses, etc. earn less than that even in San Jose.

    The point is (which was extremely clear) is that H1-Bs in Silicon Valley are not suppressing wages there. They are paid almost the same as what an American would be paid for the same job. The WN narrative of how they are 'suppressing wages across the entire sector' is entirely false, based on this data.

    H1-B should still be abolished, but for other reasons.

    Replies: @anon

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Autochthon

    Y


    ou do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of?
     
    Solution: open defecation.
  40. @Anonymous
    @Wilkey

    "I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. "

    Not at all. Those scam artists (many with fake degrees) actually ruin US economy because of their shoddy code. Most of them work for body shops like Infosys, Tata,..etc. that get contracts from large and medium companies. When they have done their damage they move on to prey on another companies. Indians are famous for latching to successful companies and ruined them. If they are so good how come there is not even one notable software/hardware product built by Indians. Not even one! Here is a list of Western companies ruined by Indians compiled many years ago. I am sure the list is much longer now.


    Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
    AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
    AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
    Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
    Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
    Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
    Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
    Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
    Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
    Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
    Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
    ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
    Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
    Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
    Dell - call center (closed in India)
    Delta call centers (closed in India)
    Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
    GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
    HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!
    HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
    Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
    JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
    Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
    Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
    Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
    MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
    MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.
    PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
    PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.
    Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
    Qantas - See AirBus above
    Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
    Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
    SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
    Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
    Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
    State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
    State of Texas failed IBM project.
    Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
    UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
    Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.
    United - call center (closed in India)
    Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
    Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
    World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Anonymous

    And you haven’t even touched on the stench and the overcrowding. Anytime I read comments approving or merely accepting, even begrudgingly, the H1-B racket as involving smart, productive people who contribute I know this person has no actual experience of the Santa Clara Valley or even the technology sector writ large.

  41. @Anon
    @27 year old

    If I'm reading this correctly, my medium-sized city is trying to fill 151 positions and offering salaries with a median amount of 62K per year. Frankly, there would be a lot of native US citizens happy to fill these jobs, which are mostly upper-class jobs from what I can tell. They're advertising for scientists, programmers, and medical people. They want brains.

    Replies: @bomag

    They’re advertising for scientists, programmers, and medical people. They want brains.

    Sort of, but when you are advertising for a complete cardiology unit in Pikeville KY at almost a half mil a year per job, maybe we should think twice about what we are doing.

    Surprising how many relatively average jobs were advertised, and especially jobs by gov’t agencies. It’s become an easy advertising outlet.

    So we have the specter of tax money being used to further the immigration tsunami in service to job slots that are largely optional; just funded slots the bureaucrat class doesn’t want to lose.

  42. @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    Since when are “innumerate WNs” the critics one should answer regarding H1-b?

    Wage growth has been markedly stagnant, in no small part due to immigration; H1-b’s effects cascade through the system like anything else.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @bomag

    bomag,

    That is a broader issue. Frankly, women's entry into the workforce and the massive affirmative action they receive has depressed wages even more than immigration (but the two effects are cumulative).

    But the primary objection about H1-Bs, is inaccurate. H1-B is perhaps the #4 or #5 issue in the list of immigration problems worth addressing.

    It should still be abolished for other reasons, but 'wage suppression in tech' is not one of them.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @bomag

    Thomm's schtick is to abuse white working class people, hence the "innumerate WN" stuff. Debating him is pointless, very reminiscent of Corvinus in fact.

    At least the Duck is sort-of funny and Nick Diaz is unremittingly and entertainingly hostile.

  43. I have to disagree to you on the first part about the H1Bs but as to your second point- ‘Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue.’

    The Sup. Court has agreed to review Trump’s ability under US code 1182 to ban immigrants -the so-called ‘Muslim ban’- by executive order and will render a decision in June. If (a rather big if IMO) The Sup. Court upholds Trump’s authority and overrules the 9th Circuit et al. he should immediately issue an executive order imposing an indefinite hold on the diversity visa and chain migration of non-nuclear family members. On illegal immigration it should be deport, deport, deport and I don’t see a resolution to the DACAites by then either.

    Here’s what US Code 1182 days- ‘Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, the president may, by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.’ )

  44. “It’s almost as if it matters whose side the President is on.”

    Lois Lerner may not have been prosecuted, but she certainly was studied. How do you like them apples, Barky?

  45. But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants say they are now getting unwarranted requests, and in bigger numbers, than in the past.

    What lawyers are they talking about? Lawyers who represent H-1B applicants? Or lawyers who represent the employers of H-1B applicants? (Not that I particularly care). When you get down to it, these are the kind of lawyers the article is talking about:

    They are complaining that their bogus employee searches, designed to not find an american applicant, are now being challenged. I’d like to see a lot more than “malicious compliance” brought to bear against these scammers; I’d like to see actual criminal prosecutions.

  46. @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Anon, @Thomm, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Thomm does not realize that. Because he is innumerate, as he accuses others of being.

  47. @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    You have never demonstrated any knowledge of mathematics here. So – tell us – how much math have you had? Tell us why we should be impressed by your claims to be so much smarter than everyone else, you idiot blowhard.

  48. @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Anon, @Thomm, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    It’s possible that $120,00 is divided still more. Do Indians remit money back to thier families in India, as many Mexicans do?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @Mr. Anon

    It really depends upon individual circumstances. Because most Hindoo invaders are socioeconomically well-off compared to the mestizoids invaders. Whereas Paco and Taco are more often than not squat Guatemalans from the pueblo with no prospects and a life of abject poverty and misery, Ramakrishnaguthraguptanathan is as often as not the kid who was bright or conniving enough, and from.a wealthy enough caste and family, to get into the Indian Institute of Technology, then either scam a gig with E-Infochips or Wipro Technologies – or a spot in an American graduate school (or both) – and then extend the sponsorship via continued gigs on the H1-B racket or student visas and their ridiculous "apprenticeship" allowances until he gets the golden ring (in this case a green card). If he was originally a broke but bright and scrappy kid who aced qualifying exams and scored scholarships then he may send some dough back to the clan, but usually they are doing just fine: he came to America for the gullible and exploitable natives, cash and prizes, real estate, infrastructure, relative lack of corruption and overpopulation – not because he had no prospects in India....

  49. @anonymous
    "Do these H1Bs go back to India at some point..."

    They marry (usually arranged by the parents; having an H1B is one of the first things listed in the classifieds in the Indian papers where people in search of an arrangement post such things) and then have kids in the US, etc..

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    Yep. My Indian ex-boyfriend did exactly this. Student visa, H1B with a job, arranged marriage, green card, American kids, eventually he and his wife became citizens.

  50. @Buffalo Joe
    California, at the urging of the ACLU and the Women's League of Voters, has decided that it is too much effort for an applicant for a drivers license to also have to fill out a voter's registration card. So, from now on, when you apply for a drivers license, you are automatically enrolled as a voter. They have previously determined that it is wrong to ask about the applicant's citizenship. California is swamped in leftist bilge water.

    Replies: @Ozymandias, @yourbunnywrote

    “So, from now on, when you apply for a drivers license, you are automatically enrolled as a voter.”

    What is needed is someone who can explain to the illegals that they don’t have to vote for the Democratic candidate presented to them; they can elect their own candidate. Then things will start to change.

  51. @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Anon, @Thomm, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of?

    Irrelevant. Non-tech people like schoolteachers, waitresses, etc. earn less than that even in San Jose.

    The point is (which was extremely clear) is that H1-Bs in Silicon Valley are not suppressing wages there. They are paid almost the same as what an American would be paid for the same job. The WN narrative of how they are ‘suppressing wages across the entire sector’ is entirely false, based on this data.

    H1-B should still be abolished, but for other reasons.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Thomm

    They are paid almost the same as what an American would be paid for the same job. The WN narrative of how they are ‘suppressing wages across the entire sector’ is entirely false, based on this data.

    All right. How can you write this and call other people "innumerate"?

    The question isn't whether they're driving wages down, exactly, as much as whether they're preventing them from going up.

    If I had a farm, and I was paying people five dollars an hour to pick fruit, then, as the economy improved and people had more opportunities, I would eventually run out of people willing to do that, and I'd have to pay them more.

    But suppose I could just hire as many Mexicans as I wanted to pick fruit for four dollars an hour. But I agreed to keep on some of the old American workers at five dollars an hour, just because I'm a nice guy.

    Now, it's true that I didn't actually decrease the Americans' wages, but I also didn't increase them, which I would have had to if I hadn't had the option to bring in cheaper replacements for them.

    Even the term "suppressing" wages, by itself, suggests preventing something from rising, rather than pushing it down.

  52. @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    “So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.”

    Yes, what has the WNs up in arms is the loss of those coveted minimum wage jobs. What piercing insight you possess.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Ozymandias

    You didn't understand the comments (since WNs have room-temperature IQs).

    The endless WN whining is that 'H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for". The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.

    This claim is patently not true, as per the data. You were too dense to grasp even this basic point.

    The most you can claim is that the H1-B is paid $125K for the job that the American might get paid $140K for (even that is not true, because those jobs will be given to women for affirmative action reasons).

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe, @Anonymous

  53. @Buffalo Joe
    California, at the urging of the ACLU and the Women's League of Voters, has decided that it is too much effort for an applicant for a drivers license to also have to fill out a voter's registration card. So, from now on, when you apply for a drivers license, you are automatically enrolled as a voter. They have previously determined that it is wrong to ask about the applicant's citizenship. California is swamped in leftist bilge water.

    Replies: @Ozymandias, @yourbunnywrote

    How will this work with the TSA’s new ID requirements. The new drivers licensees that will be valid to fly or take Amtrak require proof of citizenship to acquire…….

  54. @Mr. Anon
    @Autochthon

    It's possible that $120,00 is divided still more. Do Indians remit money back to thier families in India, as many Mexicans do?

    Replies: @Autochthon

    It really depends upon individual circumstances. Because most Hindoo invaders are socioeconomically well-off compared to the mestizoids invaders. Whereas Paco and Taco are more often than not squat Guatemalans from the pueblo with no prospects and a life of abject poverty and misery, Ramakrishnaguthraguptanathan is as often as not the kid who was bright or conniving enough, and from.a wealthy enough caste and family, to get into the Indian Institute of Technology, then either scam a gig with E-Infochips or Wipro Technologies – or a spot in an American graduate school (or both) – and then extend the sponsorship via continued gigs on the H1-B racket or student visas and their ridiculous “apprenticeship” allowances until he gets the golden ring (in this case a green card). If he was originally a broke but bright and scrappy kid who aced qualifying exams and scored scholarships then he may send some dough back to the clan, but usually they are doing just fine: he came to America for the gullible and exploitable natives, cash and prizes, real estate, infrastructure, relative lack of corruption and overpopulation – not because he had no prospects in India….

  55. @anon
    @Thomm

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    I don't remember anyone actually ever saying that, but OK.

    The point I think he was trying to make, though, is that they're not all in Silicon Valley. I looked up my city, and there were a bunch of applications (that were accepted) for jobs like "physical therapist" for around $40,000. Don't you imagine they could probably have found a few of those in America?

    Replies: @Sandmich, @MaMu1977

    The smallish “bedroom” community where I live has one H1-B, an “interior designer” jotted down for ~$22,000/yr, which is around a buck more an hour than the state minimum wage But, to your point, it smells like a scam to me.

  56. But lawyers who represent H-1B applicants say they are now getting unwarranted requests, and in bigger numbers, than in the past.

    If you are representing an H-1B holder, or a company using H-1B visas, you’d certainly call the requests “unwarranted”.If you’re charging a flat fee, it messes up your cost structure, and if you’re billing for service, it makes the H-1B more expensive.

    Also, what if the bigger numbers is just because someone is actually reading the applications, rather than rubber-stamping them?

  57. @Thomm
    @27 year old


    I found this site: http://h1bdata.info

    You can show all the H1b visas issued for employers in a given city, including what employer, what job title and what salary.
     
    This site is very informative.

    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.

    The median salary in Silicon Valley is around $120,000. Sure, it may be replacing American workers who might get $150,000, but the H1-B median in Silicon Valley is still $120,000.

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    The program should still be abolished, but not for 'wage suppression' reasons (which is obviously not nearly as significant as some innumerate people think).

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Ozymandias, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    innumerate

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  58. @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of? That after the tax man takes between one half and one third of that money, one must still service the mortgage on a modest house worth $2,000,000.00 or pay comparable and endlessly increasing rents (around $2,000.00 per month at minimum for a one bedroom flat in bad neighbourhood)? I could go on, but the data are ubiquitous and easily discovered for the interested.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Anon, @Thomm, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Y

    ou do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of?

    Solution: open defecation.

  59. @bomag
    @Thomm


    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.
     
    Since when are "innumerate WNs" the critics one should answer regarding H1-b?

    Wage growth has been markedly stagnant, in no small part due to immigration; H1-b's effects cascade through the system like anything else.

    Replies: @Thomm, @YetAnotherAnon

    bomag,

    That is a broader issue. Frankly, women’s entry into the workforce and the massive affirmative action they receive has depressed wages even more than immigration (but the two effects are cumulative).

    But the primary objection about H1-Bs, is inaccurate. H1-B is perhaps the #4 or #5 issue in the list of immigration problems worth addressing.

    It should still be abolished for other reasons, but ‘wage suppression in tech’ is not one of them.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Thomm


    It should still be abolished for other reasons, but ‘wage suppression in tech’ is not one of them.
     
    A lot of immigration falls under the "broken window" phenomenon. Economists will patiently explain how this or that level of immigration is not large enough to affect a labor market, just like an economist will patiently explain that a broken window does not affect the selling price of a house since it only costs $50 to repair.

    The psychological aspects can make all the difference in a market. One case of mad cow disease sends the connected futures market into the tank. The marginal actors in any market set the tone.
  60. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm
    @Autochthon


    You do realise $120,000.00 in San José barely gets one a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of?
     
    Irrelevant. Non-tech people like schoolteachers, waitresses, etc. earn less than that even in San Jose.

    The point is (which was extremely clear) is that H1-Bs in Silicon Valley are not suppressing wages there. They are paid almost the same as what an American would be paid for the same job. The WN narrative of how they are 'suppressing wages across the entire sector' is entirely false, based on this data.

    H1-B should still be abolished, but for other reasons.

    Replies: @anon

    They are paid almost the same as what an American would be paid for the same job. The WN narrative of how they are ‘suppressing wages across the entire sector’ is entirely false, based on this data.

    All right. How can you write this and call other people “innumerate”?

    The question isn’t whether they’re driving wages down, exactly, as much as whether they’re preventing them from going up.

    If I had a farm, and I was paying people five dollars an hour to pick fruit, then, as the economy improved and people had more opportunities, I would eventually run out of people willing to do that, and I’d have to pay them more.

    But suppose I could just hire as many Mexicans as I wanted to pick fruit for four dollars an hour. But I agreed to keep on some of the old American workers at five dollars an hour, just because I’m a nice guy.

    Now, it’s true that I didn’t actually decrease the Americans’ wages, but I also didn’t increase them, which I would have had to if I hadn’t had the option to bring in cheaper replacements for them.

    Even the term “suppressing” wages, by itself, suggests preventing something from rising, rather than pushing it down.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  61. @Wilkey
    I'm by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. But Trump needs to slow immigration using everything in his power until the Democrats and the cheap labor lobby (but I repeat myself) come to the table willing to make genuine compromises on the issue. We need real enforcement, a real reduction in other forms of legal immigration, and we need to make it easier to kick out people who are here illegally. We shouldn't have to spend ten years in court every time we try to deport an illegal alien.

    Cut refugees to zero, cut the diversity lottery to zero, slow the issuance of visas in every way possible, and refuse to give visas to any country (including China) that refuses to take back its deportees. Silicon Valley needs to learn that if it wants its H-1B visas that its going to have to be willing to side with conservatives instead of joining in an open borders free-for-all.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stephen Marle, @guest, @nebulafox

    Easy way to prevent abuse of immigrants and native workers alike: a law stating that an H1-B or H2-B visa is required to have financial compensation on par with the local average salary for an American worker, on pain of fines and imprisonment for the employer. In Silicon Valley, that will mean six digits, and that will dampen corporate enthusiasm for the visa programs.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @nebulafox


    Easy way to prevent abuse of immigrants and native workers alike: a law stating that an H1-B or H2-B visa is required to have financial compensation on par with the local average salary for an American worker, on pain of fines and imprisonment for the employer.
     
    Of course. But better yet would be to abolish H-1 outright and only accept those who can come on an O-1.

    That said, Silicon Valley H1-Bs do average about $125,000, as per the website above, so they are not 'depressing tech wages' to a significant degree, given that H1-Bs are usually in junior jobs that pay around that anyway.
  62. @bomag
    @Thomm


    But it completely destroys the narrative of innumerate WNs.
     
    Since when are "innumerate WNs" the critics one should answer regarding H1-b?

    Wage growth has been markedly stagnant, in no small part due to immigration; H1-b's effects cascade through the system like anything else.

    Replies: @Thomm, @YetAnotherAnon

    Thomm’s schtick is to abuse white working class people, hence the “innumerate WN” stuff. Debating him is pointless, very reminiscent of Corvinus in fact.

    At least the Duck is sort-of funny and Nick Diaz is unremittingly and entertainingly hostile.

  63. @Anonymous
    @Wilkey

    "I’m by far the most sympathetic to people coming here on H-1B visas. They at least produce quite a bit of value for the US economy. "

    Not at all. Those scam artists (many with fake degrees) actually ruin US economy because of their shoddy code. Most of them work for body shops like Infosys, Tata,..etc. that get contracts from large and medium companies. When they have done their damage they move on to prey on another companies. Indians are famous for latching to successful companies and ruined them. If they are so good how come there is not even one notable software/hardware product built by Indians. Not even one! Here is a list of Western companies ruined by Indians compiled many years ago. I am sure the list is much longer now.


    Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
    AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
    AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
    Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
    Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
    Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
    Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
    Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
    Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
    Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
    Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
    ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
    Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
    Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
    Dell - call center (closed in India)
    Delta call centers (closed in India)
    Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
    GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
    HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!
    HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
    Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
    JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
    Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
    Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
    Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
    MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
    MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.
    PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
    PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.
    Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
    Qantas - See AirBus above
    Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
    Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
    SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
    Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
    Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
    State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
    State of Texas failed IBM project.
    Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
    UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
    Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.
    United - call center (closed in India)
    Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
    Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
    World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Anonymous

    You left out by far the most important one (at least to people of a certain age): Commodore.

  64. @nebulafox
    @Wilkey

    Easy way to prevent abuse of immigrants and native workers alike: a law stating that an H1-B or H2-B visa is required to have financial compensation on par with the local average salary for an American worker, on pain of fines and imprisonment for the employer. In Silicon Valley, that will mean six digits, and that will dampen corporate enthusiasm for the visa programs.

    Replies: @Thomm

    Easy way to prevent abuse of immigrants and native workers alike: a law stating that an H1-B or H2-B visa is required to have financial compensation on par with the local average salary for an American worker, on pain of fines and imprisonment for the employer.

    Of course. But better yet would be to abolish H-1 outright and only accept those who can come on an O-1.

    That said, Silicon Valley H1-Bs do average about $125,000, as per the website above, so they are not ‘depressing tech wages’ to a significant degree, given that H1-Bs are usually in junior jobs that pay around that anyway.

  65. @Ozymandias
    @Thomm

    "So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage."

    Yes, what has the WNs up in arms is the loss of those coveted minimum wage jobs. What piercing insight you possess.

    Replies: @Thomm

    You didn’t understand the comments (since WNs have room-temperature IQs).

    The endless WN whining is that ‘H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for”. The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.

    This claim is patently not true, as per the data. You were too dense to grasp even this basic point.

    The most you can claim is that the H1-B is paid $125K for the job that the American might get paid $140K for (even that is not true, because those jobs will be given to women for affirmative action reasons).

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    @Thomm



    The endless WN whining is that ‘H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for”. The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.
     
    I don't know any WN's, but ordinary Americans object to the various kinds of wage suppression.

    There is one complaint that Mexican labor is below the minimum wage, and we have to pay healthcare and school costs for both the Mexican laborer's family and kids as well as for the unemployed American and his baby mama and her kids.

    Another complaint is that H1 b skilled labor such as tech workers work for less than comparable American workers. So a Ph.D. physicist from abroad working in oil and gas in the USA makes less than an IT guy with a bachelor's degree working for an oil and gas company in the same city.
    , @Anonymous
    @Thomm

    "The endless WN whining is that ‘H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for”

    I've never heard this nonsense from anyone besides you. If you're hearing it endlessly, it's probably coming from your mirror.

  66. Isn’t this a wee bit like what was done by Lois Lerner’s IRS, when the agency targeted conservative groups that were seeking certification?
    I’m not complaining about whatever tactics might be employed to discourage alien invaders, just sayin’ that bureaucratic intransigence is a powerful glue in the gears of state.
    #BuildtheWall
    #TacoCurtain

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    @Macumazahn


    Isn’t this a wee bit like what was done by Lois Lerner’s IRS, when the agency targeted conservative groups that were seeking certification?
     
    No. Lois Lerner was harassing people adopting kids or holding up paperwork for conservative groups.

    Actually reading H1-b applications is the legal requirement of the agency. Also, there is the requirement that the applicant establish that he cannot find an American which is supposed to be a fairly high bar to protect American workers. Whereas the tax exempt status of little Tea Party groups is really only concerned with whether the group makes any money, which is a low bar designed to protect the free speech of American citizens.
  67. @Thomm
    @Ozymandias

    You didn't understand the comments (since WNs have room-temperature IQs).

    The endless WN whining is that 'H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for". The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.

    This claim is patently not true, as per the data. You were too dense to grasp even this basic point.

    The most you can claim is that the H1-B is paid $125K for the job that the American might get paid $140K for (even that is not true, because those jobs will be given to women for affirmative action reasons).

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe, @Anonymous

    The endless WN whining is that ‘H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for”. The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.

    I don’t know any WN’s, but ordinary Americans object to the various kinds of wage suppression.

    There is one complaint that Mexican labor is below the minimum wage, and we have to pay healthcare and school costs for both the Mexican laborer’s family and kids as well as for the unemployed American and his baby mama and her kids.

    Another complaint is that H1 b skilled labor such as tech workers work for less than comparable American workers. So a Ph.D. physicist from abroad working in oil and gas in the USA makes less than an IT guy with a bachelor’s degree working for an oil and gas company in the same city.

  68. @Macumazahn
    Isn't this a wee bit like what was done by Lois Lerner's IRS, when the agency targeted conservative groups that were seeking certification?
    I'm not complaining about whatever tactics might be employed to discourage alien invaders, just sayin' that bureaucratic intransigence is a powerful glue in the gears of state.
    #BuildtheWall
    #TacoCurtain

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    Isn’t this a wee bit like what was done by Lois Lerner’s IRS, when the agency targeted conservative groups that were seeking certification?

    No. Lois Lerner was harassing people adopting kids or holding up paperwork for conservative groups.

    Actually reading H1-b applications is the legal requirement of the agency. Also, there is the requirement that the applicant establish that he cannot find an American which is supposed to be a fairly high bar to protect American workers. Whereas the tax exempt status of little Tea Party groups is really only concerned with whether the group makes any money, which is a low bar designed to protect the free speech of American citizens.

  69. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Congress is full of WN! Who knew?

    “Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas To Pay Low Wages To Immigrants:
    This drafted executive order could actually mean higher wages for both foreign workers and Americans working in Silicon Valley.”
    , Norm Matloff:

    “…Congress’s own commissioned report found that H-1B workers “received lower wages, less senior job titles, smaller signing bonuses and smaller pay and compensation increases than would be typical for the work they actually did.”…

    …Salaries of software engineers are basically flat, rising at 2 percent or so per year for established workers…

    …And while Silicon Valley wages appear high on the surface, they come nowhere near matching the astronomical local real estate prices.

    Another dirty little secret in all this is that the H-1B program is an enabler of rampant age discrimination… Age is actually one of the core issues in H-1B. Mind you, we are talking about age 35 as being “old” here… Almost all the H-1Bs are young, and younger is cheaper. And young H-1Bs are even cheaper than young Americans…

    ..Age gives employers an excuse to shun American applicants, on the grounds that a given job opening requires only three to five years of experience, rendering the Americans “overqualified.”…

    … The data show that the Silicon Valley firms do indeed underpay their H-1Bs, and individual examples of abuse by household-name firms are disturbing…

    …The industry especially asserts a need to hire H-1Bs with a PhD, citing the fact that 50 percent of computer science doctorates in the U.S. are granted to foreign students…

    …it simply doesn’t pay for an American student… to pursue doctoral study, as the salary premium for a doctorate is too small… That small wage premium is due to the flooding of the market by foreign applicants, something correctly forecast (with approbation) by the National Science Foundation years ago. …We actually have a surplus of computer science PhDs; 11.3 percent of them are involuntarily working in a non-computer science field…

    …research performed at the University of Michigan and Rutgers University… shows that the former foreign students now in the U.S. workforce tend to be weaker than their American peers…

    …current law requires only that they pay the average wage…”

    Of course, it helps that they can’t easily change jobs; many work for contract shops and thus don’t have direct pension, health, and other costs for the company they contract to; everyone dangles the plum of US citizenship in front of them; and of couse by know many of their managers are ethnically the same and they all know how to play the “Scramble for America” game.

  70. @Thomm
    @Ozymandias

    You didn't understand the comments (since WNs have room-temperature IQs).

    The endless WN whining is that 'H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for". The exact numbers may vary, but that is the WN complaint.

    This claim is patently not true, as per the data. You were too dense to grasp even this basic point.

    The most you can claim is that the H1-B is paid $125K for the job that the American might get paid $140K for (even that is not true, because those jobs will be given to women for affirmative action reasons).

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe, @Anonymous

    “The endless WN whining is that ‘H1-Bs are paid $15,000 to do what an American worker would get paid $125,000 for”

    I’ve never heard this nonsense from anyone besides you. If you’re hearing it endlessly, it’s probably coming from your mirror.

  71. @Thomm
    @bomag

    bomag,

    That is a broader issue. Frankly, women's entry into the workforce and the massive affirmative action they receive has depressed wages even more than immigration (but the two effects are cumulative).

    But the primary objection about H1-Bs, is inaccurate. H1-B is perhaps the #4 or #5 issue in the list of immigration problems worth addressing.

    It should still be abolished for other reasons, but 'wage suppression in tech' is not one of them.

    Replies: @bomag

    It should still be abolished for other reasons, but ‘wage suppression in tech’ is not one of them.

    A lot of immigration falls under the “broken window” phenomenon. Economists will patiently explain how this or that level of immigration is not large enough to affect a labor market, just like an economist will patiently explain that a broken window does not affect the selling price of a house since it only costs $50 to repair.

    The psychological aspects can make all the difference in a market. One case of mad cow disease sends the connected futures market into the tank. The marginal actors in any market set the tone.

  72. @anon
    @Thomm

    So much for the myth that all H1-Bs, are paid minimum wage.

    I don't remember anyone actually ever saying that, but OK.

    The point I think he was trying to make, though, is that they're not all in Silicon Valley. I looked up my city, and there were a bunch of applications (that were accepted) for jobs like "physical therapist" for around $40,000. Don't you imagine they could probably have found a few of those in America?

    Replies: @Sandmich, @MaMu1977

    “Physical therapist”, from H1-B to English, probably means “hand job dispenser”. If the approved applicant is a decent-looking East or West Asian chick, confirm the latter.

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