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From The Hill:

White House physician Sean Conley said in a memo released by the press office that Trump did not require supplemental oxygen as of late Friday, but that doctors opted to initiate Remdesivir therapy.

“This afternoon, in consultation with specialists from Walter Reed and Johns Hopkins University, I recommended movement of the President up to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for further monitoring,” Conley wrote. “This evening I am happy to report that the President is doing very well. He is not requiring any supplemental oxygen, but in consultation with specialists we have elected to initiate Remdesivir therapy. He has completed his first dose and is resting comfortably.”

The use of Remdesivir means Trump is now on multiple therapeutics to treat his infection. Conley said earlier in the day that the president was given an experimental antibody injection developed by Regeneron. He is also taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin.

Here’s Regeneron’s 9/29 press release on the results of the first 275 patients in their clinical trial. As far as I understand it (not far), their antibody cocktail is like a synthetic version of the old practice of infusing new patients with blood plasma from recovered patients (which, unfortunately, hasn’t tested well so far).

REGN-COV2 is a combination of two monoclonal antibodies (REGN10933 and REGN10987) and was designed specifically to block infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

To develop REGN-COV2, Regeneron scientists evaluated thousands of fully-human antibodies produced by the company’s VelocImmune® mice, which have been genetically modified to have a human immune system, as well as antibodies identified from humans who have recovered from COVID-19. The two potent, virus-neutralizing antibodies that form REGN-COV2 bind non-competitively to the critical receptor binding domain of the virus’s spike protein, which diminishes the ability of mutant viruses to escape treatment and protects against spike variants that have arisen in the human population, as detailed in Science. Preclinical studies have shown that REGN-COV2 reduced the amount of virus and associated damage in the lungs of non-human primates.

I got treated with a cancer-fighting monoclonal antibody in a clinical trial back in 1997.

 
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  1. Well he’s been moved to a hospital because that’s what anxious doctors would demand. They don’t want to be in trouble for not doing enough if a 1 in 10,000 thing happens.

    By the way, isn’t it true most Presidents are over-treated? Doctors always want to “do something” with famous people, when patience might be the better course.

    I’d worry about them getting too aggressive with meds or putting him on a ventilator.

  2. Anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:

    OUTRAGEOUS. Holy crap. Remdesivir is a proven failure. And on top of the Regeneron fiasco this must be approaching outright malpractice.

    Investigate this white house doctor now.

    Trump’s white house doctor: Conley is a navy commander and a frigging OSTEOPATH. What the goddamn hell. He has no expertise in these matters.

    And he is administering an experimental antibody treatment to potus? Out of an abundance of caution?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-is-sean-conley-following-donald-trump-e2-80-99s-positive-coronavirus-test-his-personal-physician-a-bucks-county-native-will-be-in-the-spotlight/ar-BB19DGek

    Sorry. The best doctors in the world are not in the navy.

    So this guy Conley immediately administers an EXPERIMENTAL drug today —– even though Trump was not in any sort of dire straights. And coincidentally right afterwards Trump is suddenly shipping out to the hospital.

    Was there a big behind-the-scenes drama today? Kook doctor injected Trump with radical therapy?

    Also is Trump family so naive that they are not keeping at least one family member at his bedside at all times?

  3. Lot says:

    Remdesivir is only indicated and shown to be effective in severe COVID cases. However, that doesn’t mean Trump has a severe case. While not effective, it also isn’t harmful to mild COVID cases, with side effects mild and rare.

    ” A main study (NIAID-ACTT-1) involving 1,063 hospitalised patients with COVID-19 (120 with mild to moderate disease and 943 with severe disease) showed that Veklury [aka remdesivir] can speed up the recovery time in some patients, allowing them to spend less time in hospital or on treatment.

    The study showed that, in the overall study population, patients treated with Veklury recovered after about 11 days, compared with 15 days for patients given placebo (a dummy treatment). For patients with severe disease requiring supplemental oxygen, time to recovery was 12 days for patients given remdesivir, compared with 18 days for patients on placebo. However, no difference was seen in time to recovery in the subgroup of patients with severe disease who started remdesivir when they were already on mechanical ventilation or ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation). No difference was also observed in patients with mild/moderate disease not requiring supplemental oxygen: time to recovery was 5 days for both the remdesivir group and the placebo group.

    200 pages of info on the drug and COVID, and why the EU approved its use:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/assessment-report/veklury-epar-public-assessment-report_en.pdf

  4. Anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:

    People are talking about the weird typo in Trump’s tweet tonight: unusual capital i used as an l at the end of the word “well”… it really is a bizarre typo.

    Anyway so we have Trump’s quick video address before leaving for the hospital and also video of him strolling normally to the chopper etc. So there is solid proof that he was not extremely sick as of this afternoon.

    Good to know he’s not on oxygen tonight but why even mention it? WTH. Building a narrative?

    Really won’t be surprised if he’s intubated by the morning. Btw intubation is proven to be deadly wrong therapy for covid.

    Also Remdesivir has been proven noneffective.

    Of course the one proven effective and safe therapy is missing: hydroxychloroquine.

    We are through the looking glass here.

    We need a full accounting of the decision making and who is on the medical team besides Conley.

    WHAT ABOUT LEECHES? HAVE THEY TRIED THE LEECHES.

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
  5. U. Ranus says:

    Remdesivir … experimental antibody injection … zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin.

    Like I said:

    The real risk for Trump right now is iatrogenic damage.

  6. Anon[595] • Disclaimer says:

    It ain’t over until it’s over. Trump’s pretty healthy for a guy his age, and as we know from the Diamond Princess data, most people in their 60s and 70s aren’t going to die from Covid even if they get it.

  7. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve been thinking for a while that Trump could use a week off. The guy seems like he’s been burning the candle at both ends since he ran for office. His schedule would easily kick the ass of people 20 years younger. Maybe this is the only way he’ll relax and recharge for a bit, while the sharks give him a break for once.

    His performance with Biden seemed to lack preparation, probably because he’s a little exhausted. When you’re tired, you think less about finesse, and more about just telling your opponent to go fuck himself.

    He may have sleeping issues if they’re giving him melatonin, as well as digestive issues if he’s getting famotidine. I can’t believe the guy has his own chef, and can presumably hire a full time nutritionist, and apparently doesn’t take full advantage of it.

  8. Well hopefully he has better doctors than James Garfield.

  9. He has not tweeted since he announced his positive result which is the most worrying indicator.

    Don’t think it is a good sign he is on any medication let alone experimental therapies.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @Jack D
  10. polistra says:
    @Anonymous

    Investigate this white house doctor now.

    Trump’s white house doctor: What the goddamn hell. He has no expertise in these matters.

    Attention Everyone in Washington! Stop what you’re doing! You have no expertise and should be investigated at once! “Anonymous 115” on unz.com says so.

    • Troll: Craig Nelsen
  11. Gordo says:
    @Anonymous

    Also is Trump family so naive that they are not keeping at least one family member at his bedside at all times?

    Hope they are, and not that Kushner fellow either.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  12. Thomas says:
    @Anonymous

    Anyway so we have Trump’s quick video address before leaving for the hospital and also video of him strolling normally to the chopper etc. So there is solid proof that he was not extremely sick as of this afternoon.

    According to WaPo (FWIW), the decision was made in the White House for Trump to make that walk before his condition might have deteriorated enough for it to be an optics problem.

    A progression from (as far as we know) first symptoms to diagnosis to respiratory issues and hospitalization all within 24 hours is ominous. Trump is a notorious germophobe, so I can’t see him choosing to go to a hospital readily as a matter of preference. OTOH, maybe he is neurotically preoccupied and overreacting now that he is sick. I would expect that if his condition is bad, they’ll do everything they can to keep it under wraps as long as possible, and will probably fail at that.

    Personally, I think Trump’s his lack of moral leadership on this pandemic has been unconscionable. He refused to set any example by his own actions, even refusing to wear a mask out of vanity. And his constant “Power of Positive Thinking” minimizing of the situation and its seriousness has been disastrous. Beyond anything he’s had to do with the government’s objective response, he could’ve done a lot just by setting a better example. Part of the reason the U.S. appears to have done such a poor job managing this crisis is a significant proportion of the public doesn’t think it’s real or serious. And they don’t think so because their President hasn’t acted like it’s serious.

    This is chickens coming home to roost.

  13. polistra says:
    @Anonymous

    People are talking about the weird typo in Trump’s tweet tonight: unusual capital i used as an l at the end of the word “well”… it really is a bizarre typo.

    Typo signifying not just end of word but *End of Worrold!*

    Of course the one proven effective and safe therapy is missing: hydroxychloroquine.

    ROFL

    We are through the looking glass here.

    Um yeah. Some of us more than others

  14. Even if his condition is being exaggerated by the media (and his doctor?), this is still not welcome news. All very reminiscent of what happened with Boris Johnson a few months ago, and look at what he’s done to Britain since his ‘recovery’! I smell a rat …

  15. A progression from (as far as we know) first symptoms to diagnosis to respiratory issues and hospitalization all within 24 hours is ominous.

    What did you expect to happen? Trump sits around the White House watching Netflix with a bowl of ice cream?

    They are going to put him in a hospital to monitor his condition and give him advanced treatments.

    Trump will most likely beat the virus and win the election.

    Americans need a hero right now. Our bitter and resentful liberal media doesn’t get this.

  16. Anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe the commenter Lot has stock in Gilead?

    It’s not accurate to describe Remdesivir side effects as rare or mild. Wiki is straightforward with the real info. Acute respiratory failure is not a mild side effect. Also the efficacy claims are all FUDGE…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir

  17. J.Ross says:
    @RichardTaylor

    This. The truth is boring, inconsequential, and to do with bureaucratic caution. The newsmedia story is cinematic and emotional. NPR cued up a parallel story fitting their smarmy mood, about a mining executive who came down with black lung after having tried to fight regulations purporting to fight black lung. In their minds illness is divine punishment for disobeying the priesthood of holy bureaucrat doctors.

    • Agree: Old Prude, GeneralRipper
  18. J.Ross says:
    @Thomas

    >lack of moral leadership
    Yes, we all remember him hugging random Chinese people and calling on consumers to visit Chinese restaurants and refusing to impose travel restrictions.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Thomas
  19. J.Ross says:
    @Lot

    Remdisivir is their pet answer, mainly because it’s new and costs the same as an automobile. Millions have used hydroxychloroquine with zinc (which is out of copyright, abundant, and nearly free), including doctors using it prophylactically. I await one case of a person using hydroxychloroquine plus zinc correctly who got sick or died from WuFlu. So awaits Mehmet Oz, who is a real doctor as well as a celebrity by dint of Oprah.

  20. anon[363] • Disclaimer says:

    REGN-COV2 rapidly reduced viral load through Day 7 in seronegative patients (key virologic endpoint). The mean time-weighted-average change from baseline nasopharyngeal (NP) viral load through Day 7 in the seronegative group was a 0.60 log10 copies/mL greater reduction (p=0.03) in patients treated with high dose, and a 0.51 log10 copies/mL greater reduction (p=0.06) in patients treated with low dose, compared to placebo. In the overall population, there was a 0.51 log10 copies/mL greater reduction (p=0.0049) in patients treated with high dose, and a 0.23 log10 copies/mL greater reduction (p= 0.20) in patients treated with low dose, compared to placebo.

    https://investor.regeneron.com/news-releases/news-release-details/regenerons-regn-cov2-antibody-cocktail-reduced-viral-levels-and

    Its a bit dense, but it sounds like patients with initial antibody response don’t need it, but the high dose works well for those with no initial antibody response. Like they are done in 7 days?

    The point being that this is being tested on non hospitalized patients early in the disease course. Also, it sounds like the best outcomes are for those showing antibodies early. For th0se that don’t, (presumably Trump, imo), “REGN-COV2 rapidly reduced viral load through Day 7 in seronegative patients” it seems to be good stuff. The White House Doctor announced specialists were consulted.

    Trump should be getting the greatest and latest as early as possible. I had assumed that the 1% of the 1% were getting (and/or) hoarding the choicest plasma, which is a technique used starting over 100 years ago. One (among many) reasons the elites haven’t been struck down since last ski season. Plasma is a proven technique, but not practical for mass use. Once you get way behind the curve, nothing much works. Early on, most people don’t need anything. Sounds like they can determine who would benefit most from this intervention.

  21. @Thomas

    Dude, I hope you don’t live long enough to see a truly bad pandemic.

  22. @Thomas

    Rich, successful people often think they can beat anything via willpower.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  23. @Thomas

    You’re right, a goodly portion of the public doesn’t think it’s serious. Because it ISN’T. They get that.

    The virus has a low lethality rate. Hospitalizations and deaths are all that’s relevant and both are low. I would recommend you upgrade your info sources because it seems the media you’ve consumed has mislead you.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  24. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Thomas

    A progression from (as far as we know) first symptoms to diagnosis to respiratory issues and hospitalization all within 24 hours is ominous.

    If you had Trump’s symptoms and went to a hospital, they’d send you home. You really can’t draw any inferences based on the time frame between Trump’s diagnosis and admittance. A sitting President with a novel disease is a sample size of one.

    Personally, I think Trump’s his lack of moral leadership on this pandemic has been unconscionable. He refused to set any example by his own actions, even refusing to wear a mask out of vanity.

    Trump wore a mask when he felt it was appropriate (bear in mind that everyone he saw was frequently tested). No one wears a mask all the time. It’s difficult to breathe in one for extended periods; it gets hot; it’s harder for people to understand what you’re saying; and you can’t wear it when you eat and drink. The main difference between Trump and other public figures on mask wearing is he didn’t virtue signal about it. Fauci hung out at the baseball game without a mask on; politicians and reporters took theirs off when they thought the cameras stopped rolling, etc.

    Maybe Trump could have avoided getting COVID if he hadn’t been campaigning for reelection, but the election is pretty important: Dems have already intimated that if they win they’ll take steps to make sure they never lose again (e.g., packing the Supreme Court, adding DC and Puerto Rico as states, citizenship for illegal aliens). Leadership involves taking risks, and Trump risked his health to fight against that. Let’s hope he pulls through.

  25. Escher says:

    No mention of hydroxychloroquine?

  26. Anonymous[380] • Disclaimer says:

    Dumping the Remdesivir in seems like possibly a deliberate attempt to overload Trump’s immune system.

    Is he laying there alone in the hospital tonight with only gov employees in the building?

    The family should’ve had a game plan for protecting him from medical harm in this exact scenario. You cannot let evil or incompetent doctors kill/maim your loved ones. You have to have the brains and the balls to stop it cold.

    The Remdesivir is a total red flag. It’s big pharma quackery. But maybe Trump himself greenlighted both therapies he received today.

  27. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    I’m curious why HCQ wasn’t listed as one of the drugs Trump’s taking in his White House physician’s memo from Friday. Trump has said in the past that he’s taken it; isn’t it supposed to be helpful if taken with zinc and Zithromax early?

    • Replies: @gate666
    , @Nodwink
  28. St. Elsewhere or General hospital?

  29. Anonymous[334] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The main difference between Trump and other public figures on mask wearing is he didn’t virtue signal about it. Fauci hung out at the baseball game without a mask on; politicians and reporters took theirs off when they thought the cameras stopped rolling, etc.

    By “virtue signalling” do you mean “Leaders setting an example for the public”?

  30. anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas

    According to WaPo (FWIW), the decision was made in the White House for Trump to make that walk before his condition might have deteriorated enough for it to be an optics problem.

    The WaPo hates his guts, and they lie their asses off. Anyone unaware of that is a fucking moron.

    Hi, moron.

    Personally, I think Trump’s his lack of moral leadership on this pandemic has been unconscionable. He refused to set any example by his own actions, even refusing to wear a mask out of vanity. And his constant “Power of Positive Thinking” minimizing of the situation and its seriousness has been disastrous.

    Uh… he’s the President. He’s not your doctor, and he’s not your dad, you servile twit. He never spoke of “the Power of Positive Thinking” related to COVID, nor did he imply it, so why are you mentioning it, or putting it in quotes to obfuscate the fact that he never did, you lackluster homo?

    COVID has been a fluid situation, and experts do not agree on a number of aspects of the virus, as well as useful remedies, you brainless wonder.

    I keep reminding you slack-jawed left-wing goobs that Trump is just the President. He’s not a fucking King. He does not run your fucking world, by design, by the authors for the Constitution! He’s not allowed to run your wretched life for you! It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!

    That’s something most of you aimless floating turds will never grasp.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Thanks: GeneralRipper, Coemgen
    • LOL: Aeronerauk
  31. Curle says:

    “Part of the reason the U.S. appears to have done such a poor job managing this crisis”

    What crisis? In my county of >800,000 people we lose about one 80 year old per week dying. Is that a crisis?

  32. Polynikes says:
    @Anonymous

    I literally know nothing about medicine, so it could just be ignorance on my part, but I was a little surprised they didn’t start with the hydroxychloroquine right away given that’s what a lot of doctors have reported as using as a preventative measure. Trump also touted it over the newer experimental stuff.

    If they break out the ventilators we can start talking conspiracies.

    I’m surprised he doesn’t have (maybe he does?) a NY or FL based personal doctor whom he trusts for advice in times like these. I’d run as far away from beltway insider doctors as possible. Not that I fear some grand CIA association as much as I would just worry that their judgement is clouded by typical politics of the spotlight and their own reputation.

  33. @Anonymous

    Anonymous[115] wrote:

    And on top of the Regeneron fiasco this must be approaching outright malpractice.

    What do you mean by the “Regeneron fiasco”???

    Are you referring to the copay kickback charges concerning Eylea filed by the government against Regeneron?

    Because, at most, that seems to be a matter of malum prohibitum, not malum in se.

    It’s not clear that most ordinary people would conclude that Regeneron did anything wrong.

    In any case, it seems to relate to marketing and financial decisions by guys in the C-suite, not the quality of their pharmaceuticals.

    I’ve read through their report on their Covid-19 antibody product. Prima facie, it looks very successful — I think if I get Covid, I want it.

    Do you know something to the contrary about this particular product? Let us all know! Or are you anonymous because you have some financial interest here?

    Seriously, do you have any real information or are you just trolling at the expense of human lives???

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  34. @Thomas

    We need a moratorium on the intellectually lazy phrase “chickens coming home to roost” just as we also need a moratorium on the ethically and metaphysically-ignorant phrase “karma’s a bitch.”

    The behavior of chickens has absolutely no relation to the moral and political choices of humans.

    People who say “karma’s a bitch” cannot accurately explain what the concept of “karma” really is, and they cannot demonstrate empirically that it even exists, no more than I can demonstrate that a djinn exists. It’s also rather hilarious that the type of person inclined to the chickens/roost routine or the karma/bitch routine are also the ones who typically exclaim “I f!cking love SCIENCE!”

    We need to clear out all these noxious buzzwords and slogans and labels and -isms and -phobias and gotcha! points, or else no one will ever be able to think clearly ever again.

    • Troll: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @AndrewR
  35. astrolabe says:
    @Thomas

    Sometimes, as in a court, it is useful to have someone put forward the best arguments for the contrary point of view because it can crystallise how strong, or otherwise, they are. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  36. BB753 says:

    Is there evidence of foul play? I mean it’s not like the Democrats and their pals at the CIA lack the means to infect Trump with SARS-CoV-2 on the sly. Serious question.

  37. We need to call in Theranos!

  38. nebulafox says:

    Well, what did everybody expect? He’s in his 70s. He’s going to be more prone to illness than average. Trump’s got access to the best medical care in the world as the POTUS, so I suspect he’ll be OK, but it’s not like this should be shocking.

    As many have pointed out, both Biden and Trump have non-negligible chances of dying in office. Maybe having a political system dominated completely by geriatrics isn’t such a great idea after all.

    At least the latter day Soviets had the excuse of having 20 million+ people killed in WWII.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  39. AndrewR says:
    @Anonymous

    Don’t worry he has Mary there with him

  40. Altai says:

    So was Boris when he was infected, he also had some difficulty breathing. It seemed more like a precaution and he was fine in a few days. You can’t have the country’s political leader too far from all the medical assistance and equipment he might need.

    But Trump is older along with more risk factors like higher blood pressure and perhaps closer and deeper inhalation of the virus than Boris did.

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @Coag
  41. Nodwink says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    He’s not taking HCQ because that was just a ruse to boost stock prices for one of Trump’s dodgy mates. How anyone fell for that is incredible to me, so obvious.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    , @anon
  42. Franz says:

    Maybe having a political system dominated completely by geriatrics isn’t such a great idea after all.

    And there’s actually no reason for it besides.

    As conservatives have been repeated since the end of WWII, we have a Republic not a Democracy. This is proven every election cycle as American get, yet again, the opposite of what they vote for.

    So why is it the “Republic” chooses candidates out of such a narrow frequency band that most intelligent people ignore the candidates and stay home election day?

    Get youngsters like Jack Kennedy and Justin Trudeau. The bankers pick the candidates, the wonderful Phyllis Schlafly proved this as far back as 1964. If they want to play at democracy, even as an add-on, they’ve got to be a whole lot more convincing than this.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  43. @PhysicistDave

    Blackpillers have to blackpill.

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
  44. Neoconned says:
    @Anonymous

    Me wonders what ties this navy doc has with the spooks/NSA/DIA etc

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  45. I guess this is easier to explain than a Magic Bullet.

  46. What is striking, but perhaps not surprising, is the near absence of science reportage in the media about what has been learned about this disease in the last eight or nine months.

    Armies of doctors and research scientists around the world have been intently focused on on studying and have experience with (tens of) millions of cases.

    Yet I’ve seen little that describes the progress of the disease, variations in symptoms, tentative hypotheses about the wide variation in mortality between populations, and treatments and regimens typically followed. There’s been almost nothing. Everything is about it viewed through the lens of governance, policy and politics.

  47. We’ve had younger men in office since Ronald Reagan’s 2nd term, and I don’t think any of them have been hospitalized for anything serious since Mr. Reagan got shot 2 months into his 1st term in 1981. President Reagan was 4 years younger than Trump is now when that happened.

    It was more serious than this Kung Flu attack, as the medical science and technology was not the same as it is now 40 years ago. Reagan had lost 1/2 of his blood by one point, between in the ER and in surgury. The .22LR bullet cracked a rib, went into a lung, and was 1 in. from his heart. (Of the 6 shots John Hinkley fired, the last one, the only that hit Reagan, was fired as Hinkley was being wrestled to the ground by some labor union guy and was a ricochet off the Presidential Limo.)

    President Trump made his way to the hospital under his own power, as did Ronald Reagan on March 30th, 1981*. The difference between then and now was that America was still a civil country back then. Even Reagan’s bitterest political enemies would have wished him well. Even John Hinkley himself had wanted Reagan to win the 1980 election. He just wanted to shoot the President, whomever it was, to impress Jodie Foster. (He had gotten a foot away from President Jimmy Carter while he was checking out how easy this was.)

    How far we have fallen!

    .

    * Not only did he walk in, though he had been coughing up some bright red blood, but he made 3 or 4 jokes in there, even taking off his O2 mask to quip “I hope you are all Republicans.”

    • Agree: PiltdownMan, Adam Smith
  48. Sorsha says:
    @Lot

    Perhaps it is a window of opportunity to, once and for all, test and evaluate the known treatments.

  49. @Achmed E. Newman

    The news that the president had been shot was disheartening in 1981. My thoughts went back to how much better things had been better before 11/22/63 and how much they fell apart afterward.

    The reports of Reagan’s jokes with the surgeon “You’re not a Democrat are you?” were immensely encouraging and were central to the legend and success of Reagan.

  50. @Neoconned

    Me wonders what ties this navy doc has with the spooks/NSA/DIA etc

  51. LondonBob says:

    Speaking of Steve’s cancer, my mother mentioned the other day doctors in the US found a link between removal of tonsils, perhaps also adenoids, was a common theme of American adults who then had hodgkins lymphona, I know my father had both removed so just interested if Steve had the same?

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @Ali Choudhury
  52. nebulafox says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    My impression is that Reagan was also healthier than Trump, though, at least pre-Alzheimer’s. I don’t Trump’s egregiously unhealthy for his age, but he is overweight, and that does increase your chances of COVID developing complications.

    Again: what I really worry about is visible cognitive decline. And Biden’s even worse on this score.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Twinkie
  53. @Steve Sailer

    It was maybe not in the same calendar year, but the Pope got shot, Reagan got shot, John Lennon got shot, and worst of all, Zeppelin drummer John Bonham OD’d, all within a few months as I recall.

    Yes, Reagan lived up to that cowboy image. There’s no comparison between Donald Trump’s bluster and BS and the statesmanship of true tough guy Ronald Reagan.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @AnotherDad
  54. @nebulafox

    I agree, NF. Ronnie was in great shape at 70 y/o.

  55. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous

    I have read that Trump took a prophylactic course of HCQ in May and June and stopped. I imagine his doctors have put him on it again since there was anecdotal evidence it helped if taken early. I don’t think BoJo took it. Will be interesting to observe the different outcomes. Johnson was largely left to his own devices and it was only the alarm at his sudden deterioration that led Carrie Symond’s mum suggesting he go to hospital quickly, Trump seems better looked after.

    Of course nobody does polyclonal antibody therapy in a home setting. Too dangerous.

  56. Twinkie says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The public only found out much later, but this assassination attempt this tremendous damage to the vitality of President Reagan and he was not the same man afterwards. Unlike in movies, most handgun shot victims survive in the real world and, also unlike in movies, those who are shot and recover often have significantly degraded quality of life.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @SBaker
  57. @Dave Pinsen

    Maybe Trump could have avoided getting COVID ….

    Or maybe he couldn’t have avoided it in any case.

    So, was the Trojan Horse at the nomination presser, or did someone spike his debate podium?

    • Replies: @Dgjbv
    , @SBaker
  58. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    I am comfortable with Pence vs. Harris. I don’t wish death upon either Trump or Biden, but perhaps they could be temporarily incapacitated by the Coronavirus and the two VP candidates could duke it out in the election. Pence should win that comfortably.

  59. Garlic says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Reagan’s son, Ron Reagan Jr, wrote a book called Reagan at 100 for what would have been Reagan Sr’s 100th birthday.

    It gives a lot of interesting details on the assassination attempt I had never heard before.

    Hinckley was using explosive bullets, meant to detonate inside the target, which fortunately did not go off, but the medical staff were heroically risking their own lives in treating him.

    Reagan’s quip to the surgeon is well known: “I hope you’re all Republicans.”

    Less well known is the surgeon’s reply: “Mr. President, today we’re all Republicans.” He was in fact a liberal Democratic, but knew there was a time for partisanship and a time for putting differences aside.

    • Thanks: GreatSocialist
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  60. @gate666

    “it doesnt work”

    As proven by this Lancet study!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

    “The publication of the Surgisphere study by the Lancet meant well-controlled studies to definitely determine the drug’s (HCQ) efficacy in preventing or treating the virus were stopped prematurely.”

  61. @PiltdownMan

    Yes, and it isn’t helped by the social media platforms decisions to censor information that’s not in line with official policy positions (that sounds insane to me when I write it, but that’s where we are). By restricting information on science, there is nothing else for people to do than point fingers at each other and yell louder.

  62. Momus says:
    @Altai

    Boris nearly died; only exemplary nursing work saved him.

    He has nowhere near recovered.

    He looks to have aged 15 years.

  63. Old Prude says:
    @Thomas

    Trump has been right to treat the Bat Flu as an overblown hysteria. Like most, he’ll feel crappy for a while then get on with his life amongst the shrill pansies wearing their face diapers and looking like the jackasses they are.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  64. AndrewR says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Karma is simply the Dharmic version of Newton’s Third Law of Motion, or of Matthew 26:52.

    As Herman Cain’s death showed us, people who play with fire are more likely to be burned than people who don’t. Trump is only a few months younger than Cain was when the virus he almost certainly caught at Trump’s Tulsa rally finally took old Herman off to the great comedy club in the sky, where Jesus probably had the crowd rolling in laughter when the former pizza man showed up.

  65. AndrewR says:
    @Twinkie

    Outside of Indiana, Pence is known for absolutely nothing besides being Donald Trump’s obsequious lapdog who looks like Race Bannon. I don’t foresee him winning over many people who weren’t already leaning towards Trump.

    • Replies: @Corn
    , @epebble
    , @John Johnson
  66. Wishing a swift recovery for the President, but replacement candidates need to start warming up on the sidelines. I believe that only Tucker Carlson would be appropriate to lead the ticket.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  67. @Anonymous

    Also is Trump family so naive that they are not keeping at least one family member at his bedside at all times?

    Hopefully they wouldn’t “become distraught and jump out the window” like Secretary of Defense James Forrestal did at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1949 after a nervous breakdown followed Roswell and being included from the beginning of the deep state Majestic 12 program.

    https://www.ufodigest.com/article/new-clue-james-forrestals-mental-problems-were-ufo-related/

  68. AndrewR says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Lol how do you know “how much better things were” before JFK got killed? Weren’t you like four when that happened? Here I thought the Woke 8 Year Old meme was limited to the left, but apparently Steve Sailer wants us to know how politically sophisticated his awareness was when he was still learning how to use the potty

    • Troll: polistra
    • Replies: @Richard S
    , @anon
    , @Sam Malone
  69. Top rated comment on the Guardian, 222 likes

    “I don’t want Trump to die now. I want him to lose the election first.”

    https://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/144231663

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  70. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Oh, hell yes. It’s funny because I am far less ideologically sympathetic to what Pence represents, but Harris scares me in a way that nothing in American politics has before. The important overriding thing is keeping the managerial wannabe totalitarians out of the White House. Pence has a way better chance of beating Harris, so I would prefer that to Trump vs. Biden.

    Just please, if we do get President Pence, no more stupid Middle Eastern games. I don’t care deeply about abortion or gays or whatever, that is all I am concerned about.

    • Replies: @Flip
    , @Lockean Proviso
  71. Icy Blast says:

    The Remdesivir alone may kill him. If they put him on a “ventilator” he’s finished.

  72. Knowing Donny Trump, if he does survive this brush with the Trump virus, he’ll probably say it was the best thing that ever happened to him, and it cured his impotence or persistent erectile dysfunction.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  73. Gordo says:
    @LondonBob

    How difficult would it be to set up some grand database, perhaps with UK NHS data, and harvest the low hanging fruit?

  74. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Unlike in movies, most handgun shot victims survive in the real world and, also unlike in movies, those who are shot and recover often have significantly degraded quality of life.

    Back in the 80’s I worked with a black guy who lived in Southeast D.C. who had been shot with a handgun years prior. While the bullet didn’t hit any vital organs he told that he felt the wound every day, especially when it was cold or when the wind was blowing in a certain direction.

  75. Richard S says:
    @AndrewR

    He’s describing his reaction in 1981, cross referenced with his contextual knowledge of historical events.

    Like, you (presumably) weren’t around, but you can look back to 1914 and perceive that life was suddenly about to become a whole lot more “explodey” for European men? 🙂

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  76. Dgjbv says: • Website
    @The Alarmist

    Eleven people who set up the debate have covid

  77. Keypusher says:

    Entertaining to see Trump supporters going through the stages of grieving on this and the other thread. We’re almost through denial, now hitting anger.

    For people unsure of the political implications, Michael Tracey explains:

    Have Republicans ever considered that dopily going around spreading a dangerous contagion might be a political liability? As in, perhaps voters would prefer to live in a society with less virus rather than more. Just a theory. Could help explain any upcoming electoral wipeout.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
  78. @Anonymous

    Good comment., #285. I don’t know about the chef though. I have eaten fancy Italian food made by Chef Boyardee for weeks at a time, and my digestion actually became worse! (That could have been the increase in beer drinking that went with it, so YMMV.)

  79. Corn says:
    @AndrewR

    In a normal year I think Pence would get trounced. The country is tilting left thanks to immigrants and woke natives. I think Pence could pull it off against Biden/Harris though, if only barely.

    If Trump is dead or medically retired that may deflate the Trump Derangement Syndrome vote some. Plus I think the more honest Democrats know Biden isn’t all there. Harris is just plain unlikeable. She’d tear the Bill of Rights to shreds in the name of suppressing hate speech.

    A Pence win wouldn’t be guaranteed but I think he has a shot.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  80. @polistra

    Yeah, and a typo still beats “Dire Straights” out of #115. Don’t worry, Mr. #115, many of us here are homo

    [MORE]

    nym-error prone.

  81. @Garlic

    Yep, only one of these “Devastator” .22LR rounds exploded, Garlic. That was the 1st shot, the one that hit the Press Secretary Jim Brady. It exploded inside his head, I assume as it hit bone.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  82. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Trump’s doctor is named Dr Sean Patrick Conley? And a D.O.?

    Biden’s physician is Dr. Kevin O’Connor?

    On what planet does it make sense to have an Irish doctor?

    Call Jared and the Kushners immediately to get the best Jewish or Asian doctor flown in ASAP!!!!

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  83. Travis says:
    @Anonymous

    Famotidine (Pepsid AC) is an OTC remedy for heartburn. It is being tested against COVID
    Famotidine Use Is Associated With Improved Clinical Outcomes in Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7242191/

  84. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    Cain had previously fought a terrible bout of cancer.

  85. AndrewR says:
    @Richard S

    Learning history can be very illuminating, but the way Sailer wrote that line would undoubtedly make anyone who isn’t familiar with Sailer think that he was an adult in 1963 or at least close to it. No amount of studying can replace lived experience, and you should never imply that you have memories and experience which you don’t actually have.

    • Replies: @Aeronerauk
  86. nebulafox says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Whatever The Donald’s flaws, getting it up has not been one of them. Billy Bush: you cannot have your cake and eat it too, man.

  87. @Ali Choudhury

    Since Republicans are really bad at this let me help.

    Trump’s last words were:

    “My Most Fervent Wish Is That Judge Barrett Be Confirmed Before a New President Is Installed.”

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Thanks: adreadline, Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Lot
    , @Ron Mexico
  88. @Steve Sailer

    I was in a middle school that was 95% Black when Ronald Reagan was shot. The principal announced the news on the intercom and all of my fellow students began dancing and cheering. I sat in my seat and was terrified at their celebration. Our white teacher settled the kids down, but I could hear the din of jubilation coming from the other classrooms. It was surreal.

  89. @RichardTaylor

    I think the phony tough guy should have a little vitamin c and get plenty of sleep.
    Perhaps someone can bring Mr. Trump a big bowl of chicken soup or something.

    There is simply no need for an infusion of some weird, experimental cocktail containing “antibodies produced by the company’s VelocImmune® mice, which have been genetically modified to have a human immune system” to recover from a common cold.

    So much winning! drama.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  90. tyrone says:
    @Thomas

    “According to WAPO (FWIW)…….what it’s worth?…….not much ….and the rest of your comment …….not much.

  91. @Thomas

    ” His lack of moral leadership”

    Okay so here is a another German know-it-all, a “deutscher Besserwisser”, blabbering about DT’s lack of moral leadership, and of course we all know that the Krauts, the German so-called “Gutmenschen” have assumed the role of “Moral” leaders of the world, after haven proved their political wisdom over the last hundred years : “Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen”

    AJM “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz performer.

    • Replies: @Matra
    , @Supply and Demand
  92. @Achmed E. Newman

    https://www.firequest.com/devistator-ammo.html

    Fortunately, Hinckley didn’t use a larger, more effective round.

  93. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Senator Ron Johnson has tested positive for the coronavirus, his office announced on Saturday.

    The Wisconsin Republican “feels healthy and is not experiencing symptoms,” the senator’s office said.

    Johnson is the third GOP senator to test positive for Covid-19, after Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Thom Tillis of North Carolina.

  94. epebble says:
    @AndrewR

    Actually, if Pence effectively ends up being on the ticket (for President), it would improve the Republican chances tremendously. He would get nearly all Trump votes plus all NeverTrumper Republicans (like George Conway of Lincoln Project) Plus many independents and even some Democrats. It may also suppress some marginal Democrat voters without the strong urge to vote against Trump. (There may be a slight suppression of Trump voters who may lose enthusiasm for a non-Trump candidate). A few Biden voters may see this as a writing on the wall and think Biden may die too soon and it will be Harris Presidency and they would rather have Pence in that case.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  95. Breaking

    SpongeBob SquarePants almost dehydrated after testing positive for alcoholism

    Dr Pepper’s extremely concerned etcetera etcetera

    Thoughts and prayers

  96. Thomas says:
    @J.Ross

    A few more things have happened with this disease and its course since March, as well as the response of the public and public officials. Those are relevant too. Perhaps they’re more relevant, when you consider that we’ve been learning as we go. Well, most of us have.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  97. Thomas says:
    @The Real World

    The virus has a low lethality rate. Hospitalizations and deaths are all that’s relevant and both are low.

    Well the President is hospitalized now four weeks from an election he’s losing. That’s pretty relevant. The comparison to Hillary Clinton’s recorded collapse in September 2016 is almost too obvious to mention.

  98. Flip says:
    @nebulafox

    Harris putting in stricter gun controls could be what sets the country off.

  99. Anon[199] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m surprised they didn’t give him the steroid shot. That has proven to be a major help for a lot of people. Remdisivir doesn’t work well for most people, that’s good that they are also giving him Regeneron. They should give him the cocktail of drugs that doctors in Singapore and HK use to treat their patients that have proven to be very effective, all 3 are existing drugs and inexpensive, including something called Kaletra.

    Get well soon, Mr. President! God bless.

  100. @Thomas

    Sweden handled it correctly. Hiding in your home just prolongs things, especially with your immune system not being stimulated. Also face diapers suck. Literally if you doing any work out side, you’ll be sucking for air. Gotta live learn to live with this sucker. Now according to me that is the moral thing to do. Gosh deity work is a lot of fun. Who knew?

  101. @Thomas

    The comparison to Hillary Clinton’s recorded collapse in September 2016 is almost too obvious to mention.

    It’s nothing like that at all. In fact, it’s the exact opposite of that.

    Hillary Clinton was suffering from known, serious medical conditions which the Democrats were consistently lying about. When she collapsed in the street, the world got confirmation of what everyone suspected all along.

    Meanwhile, President Trump is going to handily survive his brush with a common cold virus the lethality of which the establishment has been wildly exaggerating for months on end. He’s going to look like a hero unless the Deep State utterly reverses course and says “we never really thought the virus was that dangerous.” Either that or they will try to assert that Trump leveraged his white privilege, and that all the poor bleggs who don’t receive Cadillac care at Walter Reed are dying off in a disparately impactful way. But Trump will preempt that move with his Platinum Plan and a few other goodies thrown in.

    Also, it seems like Biden has suspended his negative campaigning while Trump is ill, in a move that I think does him credit as a human being but which is likely to be politically deleterious to his cause. The low-info rabble that he is counting on to push him over the top are only sustained by a constant drumfire of negative campaigning, without which they will forget all about the election and may conclude that it happened already. The whole Democratic vote harvesting operation, upon which hung their only hopes, will be in disarray.

    After Trump himself beats corona, the calls to reopen the economy will be too pressing to ignore. The virus mongers in the global elite will have to back away from their insane power grab and many, many things will start to change.

  102. Polynikes says:
    @Anonymous

    Virtue signaling is “setting an example” for political purposes that you don’t actually believe in. In the case of masks, they are useless as a public policy tool for healthy people.

    Several good sites have aggregated the relevant studies but this is the latest and a nice summary: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

  103. @AndrewR

    No, that is wrong. Back to kindergarten wif you.

  104. TTSSYF says:
    @Anonymous

    No. I would think it means wearing a mask when the cameras are rolling but not wearing it when the cameras aren’t rolling, under the same set of circumstances. It is virtue signaling, because it indicates that the person doesn’t really believe in the effectiveness of masks. It is also shameless hypocrisy. But that’s no new revelation about the Left. They are shameless hypocrites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  105. Jack D says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    We are reduced to reading tea leaves. Trump’s last tweet was at 11:31PM last night (he tends to be a night tweeter). His sweet niece Mary tweeted back thusly:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjX9y06WsAEppaK?format=jpg&name=medium

    Don’t think it is a good sign he is on any medication let alone experimental therapies.

    You can expect that the doctors would try to treat the POTUS aggressively with all available therapies. And this is absolutely the right thing to do – the time to give anti-virals is as soon as possible after the virus is discovered, before it has a chance to vastly multiply in your body. By the time it has destroyed your lungs it’s too late. If given early, anti-virals shorten the course of the disease by several days and Trump needs every day between now and Election Day.

    • Replies: @anon
  106. anon[363] • Disclaimer says:

    FWIW….

    Interesting comment by CBS doctor that Trump’s biggest risk factor is that he is male. True that. Men have an approximate 10 year shorter life expectancy.

    Trump is taking Remdesivir, Gilead’s antiviral. It’s an expensive, IV administered antiviral. Maybe that’s why he went to the hospital.

    Trump took the most promising monoclonal antibody cocktail produced by Regeneron, before going to the hospital.

    So he only got diagnosed early Friday and has already got the best drugs available. Ordinary people would still be waiting for a test, and would be lucky to get a doctor’s appointment, and not be close to qualifying for hospital admission.

    Remdesivir has been around for a few years, and seems to help, but isn’t a silver bullet. It was used against Ebola, but they found something better.

    The Regeneron cocktail is new and promising. This is basically what I would want if I was in the early period of a symptomatic case. But I would still be waiting for test results.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  107. @Thomas

    A few more things have happened with this disease and its course since March, as well as the response of the public and public officials. Those are relevant too. Perhaps they’re more relevant, when you consider that we’ve been learning as we go. Well, most of us have.

    His point is that there is no reason to believe that the Democrats would have done a better job.

    Pelosi went and hugged Chinese in Chinatown.

    Biden called travel bans racist.

    De Blasio made fun of the whole thing by eating downtown.

    Of course the media doesn’t want any of us to remember that. Orange man done caused all of it!

    Perhaps they’re more relevant, when you consider that we’ve been learning as we go.

    Except that liberals keep telling us that we need to follow The Science(tm) and not ask questions, even though the people like myself that were asking questions early on were closer to reality than the politicians.

    Liberalism is fraud. If they really valued science then they wouldn’t have spent half a trillion on blank slate based programs that they continue to defend based on feelings.

  108. @DextersLabRat

    “Whether you think you can, or think you can’t, you’re right.” — Henry Ford

    But what the fuck did he ever accomplish?

    • Replies: @DextersLabRat
  109. @Anonymous

    The famotidine (Pepcid) is really for the COVID and possible cytokine inflammation. It is an antihistamine that also helps with the absorption of the other medicines. They give it to people having acute Anaphalaxis and allergic reactions in emergency situations.

  110. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    My guess is he is bemoaning the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act that were passed as a sort of homage to the dead President and all the consequences that happened because of them. Plenty of people are nostalgic about the 1950’s and detest all the turbulence and changes from Sixties onward.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  111. @AndrewR

    Outside of Indiana, Pence is known for absolutely nothing besides being Donald Trump’s obsequious lapdog who looks like Race Bannon. I don’t foresee him winning over many people who weren’t already leaning towards Trump.

    Pence would have a better chance than Trump.

    Moderate Democrats and independents aren’t happy with Biden. It’s very much a for or against Trump vote.

    Pence would get Trump’s voters plus people in the middle that are leaning against Trump but not excited about Biden or worse the possibility of Harris as president.

    Biden really messed up by picking Harris. It really made zero sense from a strategic point of view. He is simply weak and allowed the media to pressure him into choosing a Black woman even if she is mostly dot Indian and got her start in politics by bending over for a dirty old man (not disputed).

  112. @Lot

    The use of Remdesivir means Trump is now on multiple therapeutics to treat his infection. Conley said earlier in the day that the president was given an experimental antibody injection developed by Regeneron. He is also taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin.

    If he’s really not taking hydroxychloroquine right now–heck if he apparently hasn’t been taking it–i just can’t fathom it.

    The way Trump comes out of this better is by showing that Trump’s been right all along … which basically he has:
    — closing borders helps
    (Trump was too late, but compared to the establishment he was a bold man of action)
    — this isn’t the great plague; death rate will be <1% as Trump said early on
    — hydroychloroquine is a good–and cheap–therapy
    (millions around the world have been used it successfully to see this thing off)

    If he wasn't on hydroxychloroquine, or isn't taking it now it's a stupid own goal. More confusion and lack of focus like so much else we've seen.

    • Replies: @anon
  113. hhsiii says:

    Probably the vitamin d, melatonin and zinc will help some anyway.

    If he comes back strong it may give him a bounce in the polls. But I bet it won’t lead to any rethinking of lockdowns. They are waiting for Biden for that. 😉

  114. @BB753

    “Evidence” of foul play?

    This country is well past the point of believing anything about anything on the basis of “evidence.” That’s for trivial stuff like “how many positrons are there,” not stuff people care about. For that, you have a choice of conspiracies.

    When’s the last time someone said “Oh, thanks for that evidence, now I will change my mind.”

    Everything is a fucking conspiracy, the only choice is “Trump is faking to get sympathy/duck debate/4D chess campaign strategy” etc. OR “Trump was poisoned/got it naturally and now being poisoned in hospital/etc.”

    You’ll note that the feed on Democrat Twitter when from “I hope he dies, and soon” to “It’s a Trump trick” literally overnight. Politics mean “what determines your choice of conspiracy.”

    I must say, anyone who doesn’t assume a conspiracy simply “hasn’t been listening” (to use another worn out phrase) since, oh, at least JFK, or is one of Revulsky’s “high IQ idiots”.

    What I mean is, instead of political parties or ideologies, we have conspiracies, like the Romans rooted for the color of some chariot racer. In the 1300s everyone was either pro-Emperor or pro-Pope (Guelphs vs Ghibbelines), or argue whether God or Satan was responsible for something.

    Interesting question: can a democracy be run this way, with not two parties disagreeing on policy, but two incompatible and hostile worldviews. Perhaps, as some conservative might argue, people need to have prejudices which are taken for granted on all sides, and then everything else can be up for discussion.

    I think we are in a state that Nietzsche or Heidegger would call “nihilism.”

    • Replies: @BB753
  115. Thomas says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Trump wore a mask when he felt it was appropriate (bear in mind that everyone he saw was frequently tested). No one wears a mask all the time. It’s difficult to breathe in one for extended periods; it gets hot; it’s harder for people to understand what you’re saying; and you can’t wear it when you eat and drink. The main difference between Trump and other public figures on mask wearing is he didn’t virtue signal about it. Fauci hung out at the baseball game without a mask on; politicians and reporters took theirs off when they thought the cameras stopped rolling, etc.

    When I used the phrase “moral leadership,” what I meant more than anything was setting an example, which is what public figures should do. That’s different from virtue signaling. Virtue signaling is doing empty things to say “look how good a person I am.” Moral leadership is “we set a personal example for how you should act.” It has a purpose beyond simple vanity. That’s why FDR’s White House was known for terrible cuisine through the Depression and WWII (when rationing was in effect). There wasn’t a “some animals are more equal than others” exception made for the President despite the fact that amidst three terms of historic crises that saw him to the end of his life, FDR probably earned a few good meals.

    Populism in the political context used to mean that supposedly populist leaders might make, at a minimum, some gestures towards the actual experiences and sacrifices of their peoples’ lives. Nowadays, at least in the Trump era, there’s some merit to the argument that it’s degenerated into just pandering to the public’s basest instincts.

    Nobody likes wearing the damn masks. Nobody would choose to wear them. I’m grateful that in my profession, I don’t have to wear one for most of my work day, and I feel bad for people who have public-facing jobs in which they do. But it’s supposedly being done for a reason. My social circle is probably non-representative, but I know too many people who have had a cavalier attitude towards this pandemic from the beginning, and continue to do so, treating it as a conspiracy theory or else a nothingburger. Most of them are conservative to libertarian in their political outlook. Most of them support Trump. To the extent that this pandemic is continuing to slowly burn through this country, the individual choices and actions of what might be 20-35% of the public probably has a significant impact.

    Maybe Trump could have avoided getting COVID if he hadn’t been campaigning for reelection, but the election is pretty important: Dems have already intimated that if they win they’ll take steps to make sure they never lose again (e.g., packing the Supreme Court, adding DC and Puerto Rico as states, citizenship for illegal aliens). Leadership involves taking risks, and Trump risked his health to fight against that. Let’s hope he pulls through.

    I agree the election is pretty important and I hope Trump pulls through as well. Right now, he’s in the hospital four weeks from the end of an election in which he’s consistently been down in national polls 6-7% for months. After a long effort to paint Biden as a feeble old man and Trump as a vigorous fighter, Biden is still out on the trail and Trump will be out of action for who knows how long. Nice optics there. Reminds one of Hillary’s collapse in September 2016. This event has also put the pandemic back right in the forefront of public attention during the campaign and makes it the central issue of the election again, which hurts Trump in large part because of how deficient his moral leadership has been. Trump takes risks, with his health, with our country, with a lot of things. The problem is that he takes stupid and poorly-calculated risks that are driven more by his particular personality defects than by an effort to advance his cause.

    • Troll: Che Blutarsky
    • Replies: @peterike
    , @Mr. Anon
  116. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    As far as I understand it (not far), their antibody cocktail is like a synthetic version of the old practice of infusing new patients with blood plasma from recovered patients (which, unfortunately, hasn’t tested well so far).

    Not quite. Plasma contains only small amount of antibodies directed against any specific antigen. Of those, only a small proportion are neutralizing antibodies (those that prevent viral infections of healthy cells and help killing virus).

    Regeneron’s is a mix of two very potently neutralizing antibodies injected to concentrations exceeding those likely found in convalescent plasma by at least two orders of magnitude. The cocktail’s safety and efficacy is being tested in a randomized placebo-controlled trial, of which first data from 275 patients show very strong results (as expected).

    On top of that, there are also results of the trial of another neutralizing monoclonal antibody made by Lilly. That one was shown to reduce the need for inpatient admission by roughly 3-fold (highly significant; nothing else available yet is even close). Unless Trump is a very ill man or an exceptionally unlucky man, the antibodies alone should make him fine in a week. The remdesivir that he is now treated with is quite toxic but still holds some hope of helping to clear the virus by an independent mechanism. It’s very unlikely to hurt in the hospital setting.

  117. @nebulafox

    Agree with all the rest, but I must say this made me laugh out loud:

    “Trump’s got access to the best medical care in the world as the POTUS, so I suspect he’ll be OK”

    Yeah, it’s not like everyone from the CIA on down has been trying to get rid of him, or that they would be likely to engage in any foul play.

    When you announce you have the sniffles, and Twitter explodes with thousands of people wishing you were dead, only one of Revulsky’s “high IQ idiots” would sit back in the arms of the finest doctors and let medical science make things better.

  118. but I know too many people who have had a cavalier attitude towards this pandemic from the beginning, and continue to do so, treating it as a conspiracy theory or else a nothingburger. Most of them are conservative to libertarian in their political outlook. Most of them support Trump. To the extent that this pandemic is continuing to slowly burn through this country, the individual choices and actions of what might be 20-35% of the public probably has a significant impact.

    Trying to write off the whole problem as Trump supporters not wearing masks leaves too many unanswered questions.

    The worst hit areas in NY and Florida are solidly Democrat.

    In California the rural White areas that ignored the governor didn’t have massive outbreaks as predicted.

    Me thinks the media is not telling us everything. When Blacks and White leftists were protesting arm to arm the media didn’t seem that concerned. What else are they not telling us about certain groups?

  119. Thomas says:

    Update: Chris Christie becomes the latest Republican in Trump’s orbit to get sick. He was part of Trump’s debate prep team. He joins Trump, Melania, Hope Hicks, Kellyanne Conway, Bill Stepien (Trump’s campaign manager!), and three Senators (2 of whom are on the Judiciary Committee that is supposed to be holding confirmation hearings of Trump’s Supreme Court appointment to get a confirmation done in the next 4 weeks).

    “The Republican Party is sick” is a line you can expect to hear often in the next few weeks.

  120. Anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    He may very well be dead in a week, but Pence would be a much better candidate (conservative politics without the psychological baggage), so there is a potential silver lining here.

  121. @Thomas

    Personally, I think Trump’s his lack of moral leadership on this pandemic has been unconscionable. He refused to set any example by his own actions, even refusing to wear a mask out of vanity. And his constant “Power of Positive Thinking” minimizing of the situation and its seriousness has been disastrous. Beyond anything he’s had to do with the government’s objective response, he could’ve done a lot just by setting a better example. Part of the reason the U.S. appears to have done such a poor job managing this crisis is a significant proportion of the public doesn’t think it’s real or serious. And they don’t think so because their President hasn’t acted like it’s serious.

    Yeah, Trump was his usual self–bombast, incoherence, lack of sustained focus, vanity. Including some vanity with the masks.

    But let’s review the bidding:

    Trump closed off flights from China–against the whole “quarantines don’t work” PC nonsense of the globohomo medical establishment–at the time the Democrats were doing their usual “you’re all a bunch of racists” “go-hug-a-Chinaman” routine.

    ~

    The CDC–think “public sector establishment”–has been a disaster end-to-end:
    — not being prepared for a pandemic–medical supplies, quarantine capability, production capability on-shored
    — giving us racism and anti-quarantine lectures
    — the whole testing fiasco
    — the “you don’t need a mask twerp!” nonsense
    — not giving even the most obvious advice–masks, vitamin D, zinc, … humidification, what’s useful and reasonable in terms of rules. (i.e. killer golf, killer beaches, killer parks was stupid)

    You can say “Trump’s in charge” and it’s his job to manage. Fair point–heads should have rolled. But it’s a big public sector bureaucracy–i.e. full of Democrats, implementing the public sector establishments’ (i.e. the Democrats’) program. Turning these bureaucracies around is a “project”.
    Basically to fix it Trump would need a super-competent administrator who would go through person by person firing a bunch of time serving Democrats. In the middle of this pandemic.

    ~

    Trump was right on hydroxychloroquine. It had been used before on SARS v.1 with success and has proven effective across the world on this thing. (My guess is basically by being a zinc ionophore, but perhaps other effects as well.) (A relative–a doc in NYC–was visiting last week and told me he and lots of other docs were using it prophylactically last spring.)

    In contrast the Democrats and medical establishment trashed a well known, well tested, cheap drug–in some cases banning it’s use!–because … Trump touted it.

    ~

    Trump’s been more or less correct about the severity of the thing–which we’ve had a reasonable rough handle on since the Diamond Princess. It’s maybe 10X a bad flu season. Worst of my lifetime or at least the equivalent to the ’57 Asian flu. It isn’t the Plague of Justinian.

    Trump’s attitude–it’s a challenge, people will die, but we’re going to keep on trucking and get through this is the right attitude.

    In contrast … lots of shrieking hysterics and some downright stupid and damaging lockdown policies from Democrats.

    Summing up with a grade:

    Trump–with his randomness, vanity and all– C
    Democrats/public sector establishment– F

    • Agree: JMcG
  122. @Nodwink

    If that was a ruse, how come the media has not touted examples of lupus and arthritis patients who are dying despite hydroxichloriquine being part of their daily regimen? The only stories they could come up with were a few idiots taking too much of it and poisoning themselves or others.

    If there were examples of people taking it on a regular basis who still died of COVID they would certainly talk about it…

  123. Back in the day, it was simply called Walter Reed Hospital.

    WRNMMC?! Too much government.

    Also, Dr. Reed was associated with blatant, US imperialism, so ..

    Jack Kevorkian Military Hospital.

  124. @Dave Pinsen

    “Maybe Trump could have avoided getting COVID …”

    That’s the rational view. But here, under the brim of my tinfoil hat, I view the event last Saturday at the WH Rose Garden as the infection point. Before Trump formally announced his SCOTUS choice the air and surfaces of the area were misted with aerosolized Virus. Quite a few of the attendees tested positive so it must have been a particularly virulent strain. Trump’s enemies are ruthless, arrogant, and aided and abetted by the intelligence agencies and the corporate media.

  125. Anonymous[327] • Disclaimer says:

    Hard to know what to know.

    Does Trump even have the C?
    Who gave Trump the virus?
    Virus or something else on swab test?

    Is it faked/real so Shlomo Joe no have to debate?

    1st step in an event assassination?

  126. Thomas says:
    @AnotherDad

    That’s all well and good. Doesn’t address my point. Trump did one thing unambiguously right shutting down direct flights from China early in the outbreak… and perhaps that one thing only. And it turned out not to matter at all.

    Everything you said can be true. But he’s still hospitalized four weeks from an election he’s losing, with an expanding outbreak inside his campaign and party, thanks to a pandemic that’s the most important thing in the mind of an already voting public that widely perceives the President as having mismanaged. On this trajectory, four weeks from Tuesday night, we may be watching Biden and Harris declare victory with solid Congressional majorities (and maybe an open Supreme Court seat to fill as a bonus), and the wind of wokeism at their backs.

    I wonder if some of the people who comment on this blog will be hugging their knees, muttering to themselves “but it was just a bad flu… just a bad flu… just a bad flu… just a bad flu…”

  127. @AnotherDad

    Yes, doctors and nurses were using it prophylactically. I suspect that’s why the drug was downed by the media- they wanted it to be available for the “important” people plus lupus/autoimmune patients, so they said it didn’t work.

    I take HCQ because I had an old prescription on file for my mild juvenile arthritis. Hadn’t taken it since I was about 22, yet I was able to convince my doctor I needed it again. Nice side effect of a little weight loss. I’ve been all over the place during the pandemic; bars, restaurants, beaches, flying out to Wyoming for vacation during the height of the cases for area over the summer, and I still haven’t caught it. That’s despite being exposed to 3 known positive cases. I’ve had 3 tests for COVID, all negative, and even my antibody test was negative (I had THOUGHT I had it in March but turns out that actually was just the flu) I . Of course, I do wear a mask when it’s required by law.

  128. @YetAnotherAnon

    I reported it as “Hate Speech”, which it was, and it’s gone! But it was the top rated comment, so the Guardian commenters are a pretty hateful bunch.

  129. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    A whole bunch of Republican officials have been hit with this, not just Trump. The timing is way too suspicious. The Democrats must have planted a sick person in their midst deliberately right before the election and before Barrett’s confirmation hearings, hoping to delay it until after the election (which Democrats hope they’ll win). This is the sort of thing Democrats do. We’ve seen enough of Democrat behavior to know they will no longer behave like decent people.

  130. anon[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Hydroychloroquine is an anti inflammatory drug, which is a reasonable therapy.. It sounded good when doctors were writing prescriptions for themselves and hoarding it. It was also good as a placebo, which is seem to help. It was cheap, relatively plentiful, and safe. But it’s not very effective.

    But doctors are no longer self medicating with it. Back when the insiders were using it, Trump touted it. And now that insiders want monoclonal antibody cocktails and Remdesivir, so does Trump.

    If hydroychloroquine were all that was available, I would take it. But just because stupid, evil people hate it, doesn’t mean it is all that effective.

  131. @Thomas

    Part of the reason the U.S. appears to have done such a poor job managing this crisis is a significant proportion of the public doesn’t think it’s real or serious. And they don’t think so because their President hasn’t acted like it’s serious.

    The better job “managing this crisis” would have been an immediate closure of the border when this broke out in Wuhan and hard quarantine for any Americans coming home, or showing infection.

    The US is not prepared to do this–which is an obvious public health 101 capability to anyone who is even semi-literate in history and biology–because we have a traitorous minoritarian open-borders elite. (People who fundamentally aren’t Americans but cosmopolitan globalists.)

    Once the virus was here … the cake was pretty much baked.

    Some things were poorly done–the CDC a debacle of preparation and advice; Cuomo in NY killed lots of old people in nursing homes, etc. etc.

    But the main reason the virus has hit the US worse than most other 1st world nations is because
    — Americans are fatter than the rest of the developed world; with many, many more obese people
    — we have a large black population, which is both fatter and less healthy and–on average–will not follow direction (significant numbers won’t follow basic criminal laws, they aren’t going to obey public health guidelines)

    Any of these tedious “America doesn’t measure up to ” arguments that does not take into account the reality of American demographics is nonsense. Yeah, we aren’t doing as well as Germany … guess what–this place isn’t full of Germans!

  132. @Thomas

    Odd. I hear a Notre Dame professor has it, too. Was Amy Coney Barrett’s SC nomination press conference the super-spreader event? Did one of her 7 unmasked children unknowingly have it and pass it to all of the old Republicans and supporters there to watch the announcement? Presumably her children are in Catholic or private school, and most of them have resumed in-person classes, and right now the Midwest has more cases per capita than anywhere else. Maybe Hope Hicks, Trump, Melania, Kellyanne, Mike Lee, etc caught it then, were asymptomatic for awhile, and then they spread it to Trump’s debate prep team, too.

  133. @Twinkie

    Pence has little crossover appeal to people like me and the white suburban women who are extremely attracted to people like me.

  134. anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s maybe 10X a bad flu season. Worst of my lifetime or at least the equivalent to the ’57 Asian flu.

    It’s hard to know how bad Covid really is since the death figures may be skewed due to over-reporting. Doctors have been pressured to record Covid as the cause of death for anyone who dies who has the virus at the time of their death, even if something other than Covid was more reasonably the cause.
    The politicization of this issue corrupts the science work and makes the official pronouncements suspect.
    As a common voter I am less concerned with Covid, and more concerned with getting government I can trust (at least on some minimally acceptable level).
    It’s another reason to vote against Democrats.

  135. @Thomas

    Imagine the mind of a man who looks to remote secular human authority figures for “moral leadership.”

  136. @Steve Sailer

    “11/22/63”

    An event that pleased Allen Dulles. The JFK hit was a coup d’etat. It’s “silly” to think otherwise.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  137. anon[363] • Disclaimer says:

    The hospital was a good idea. It is a private, multi room suite with office facilities. He needs isolation, rest, and 5 days of Remdesivir IVs. He really needs this to be minor. Something equivalent to a serious, non fatal episode of flu would wreck what remains of his campaign.

    He might walk out of there on Wednesday, all smiles. As President and billionaire, its silly to think he isn’t getting whatever he and his handlers think best.

  138. @polistra

    But the main reason the virus has hit the US worse than most other 1st world nations

    This is simply an oft-repeated Big Lie. There are numerous Western nations with Death per 100,000 rates much worse than the US. The reason the absolute numbers are so high is because the US is the third most populous nation in the world and the world’s largest trade and business destination.

    Also, I don’t trust China and India’s numbers. If their numbers are as low as they say, there’s something else going on there than good policies, because India, for example, isn’t exactly known for its tight rein on its population’s hygenic practices.

    If you subtract out a couple outlying states — New York, NJ, Michigan, Louisiana, say, the US numbers for other states are pretty low, many on a par with low-rate European nations.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @polistra
  139. @Gordo

    “Hope they are, and not that Kushner fellow either.”

    Wasn’t some Roman God-Emperor suffocated with a pillow?

  140. JimB says:

    Trump has been attending rallies without a mask for months. Seems suspicious he becomes covid positive after contact with Democrat organizers of the presidential debate. Not only that, so do a bunch of Republican senators about to vote for Amy Coney Bennett. Maybe this is one of those arrows in Nancy Pelosi’s quiver. It is not beyond possibility that Democrats, like the Chinese, are engaged in biowarfare with their opponents when all other options seem to be failing. After all, they already fund murder and rioting. The DNC represent the purest form of evil ever to gain political power in this country. What will they resort to next, poisoning their political rivals?

    Putin says what?

  141. @Thomas

    If you’re saying Trump’s incoherence and problem with focus is an issue and may cause him to lose–no argument.

    Trump’s always pushing uphill against the media, and his incoherence–half-said, poorly-said thoughts–provide them ammunition.

    If you’re talking actual policy, i think his biggest failure has been not firing people and getting public health officials who would offer useful prevention advice. For example, vitamin-D deficiency during winter, and particularly among blacks, is an obvious problem in this with a dirt cheap solution. This ought to have been a blaring message. Trump should have been tweeting it out–and taking credit–“saving black lives”. Zinc’s another–known anti-viral. Should have been driven into everyman public consciousness.

    But this requires Trump to be a well-rounded thinker–which he is not. He really need public health officials to do their jobs well. And they did not.

  142. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, Reagan lived up to that cowboy image. There’s no comparison between Donald Trump’s bluster and BS and the statesmanship of true tough guy Ronald Reagan.

    Context is important. Reagan’s world was far more orderly than this one. In the press room, he only had to concern himself with Sam Donaldson, for gods sakes. The democrats weren’t hiding behind the bizarre mindset and actions of far-left sociopaths to invigorate their rise to power for its own sake, at the expense of our American way of life.

    Nobody even uses the word “citizen” anymore! We’re all “consumers”! How the hell are we to maintain a viable republic full of power mad “consumers”?

    Republicans don’t give a fuck about “statesmanship” in the middle of this unbridled shitshow!

    The Trump presidency is equivalent to republicans saying, “release the fucking hounds!”

    We did not release them to play frisbee, or lick your face.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  143. @Thomas

    refused to set any example by his own actions,

    Imagine an American People who didn’t look to the American President as a father figure doling out moral guidance. Was it ever so? I think yes.

  144. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    Looks like Our President is having a good time relaxing, meeting doctors and getting COVID updates.

  145. @PiltdownMan

    Exactly. Little to no mainstream reportage on the disease.

    Tons of reportage on how you must obey Big Sister or we’ll all die.

  146. teo toon says:
    @Anonymous

    Both meds are dangerous; dangerous enough to consider the White Coats to be the fifth assassination team to be activated against Trump.
    To Dr. Scott Atlas: Walter Reed doctors are endangering Trump’s life:

    If media reports are correct, the president is receiving 2 experimental drugs: the antibody cocktail, Regeneron, and the antiviral, Remdesivir.
    Aside from their individual adverse effects…
    THESE DRUGS HAVE NEVER BEEN STUDIED FOR THEIR COMBINED EFFECTS ON A PATIENT. AND NOW THAT PATIENT…THE FIRST PATIENT RECEIVING THEM…IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
    You know the adverse effects of Remdesivir, Scott. They’re more than worrisome. Acute kidney injury, for example. And this drug has only emergency authorization, and it’s explicitly for patients who are SEVERE COVID cases. Trump is not a severe case. What’s going on? Why are the Walter Reed doctors piling on?
    The other drug, Regeneron, the antibody cocktail, synthesized versions of mouse and human antibodies, is still in clinical trials. There is NO authorization for its use.

    …The other 4 hit teams: Deep Cover Sources Reveal Intelligence Information That Indicate Four Assassination Teams Have Been Dispatched to Take the Life of the President

    • Troll: Faraday's Bobcat
  147. @AnotherDad

    The CDC–think “public sector establishment”–has been a disaster end-to-end:
    — not being prepared for a pandemic–medical supplies, quarantine capability, production capability on-shored
    — giving us racism and anti-quarantine lectures

    I forgot about that part. The WHO, CDC and MSM telling us that quarantines don’t work cause racism.

    You have to wonder how many MSM articles from Feb/March will be scrubbed.

    Trump–with his randomness, vanity and all– C
    Democrats/public sector establishment– F

    I came up with a similar score.

    Trump – C-.

    Liberal establishment – F for skipping class and then showing up late to profess a love of The Science. They have been dragging an F in biology for decades.

    Ask any lib with a PhD about how nature would somehow grant an exception to humans when it comes to natural selection. They could have 2 PhDs and they will explode into a mess of emotion and total lack of answers.

    DO NOT engage the left in an academic environment. The vast majority know they are lying and have no interest in debating you. They will try to undermine you via unethical means.

  148. @Thomas

    ” four weeks from an election he’s losing”

    So just who say he is losing the election?

    You, a DT hating German know-it-all, a “deutscher Besserwisser” are the one who says this along with all of the insane leftist media and pundits. I say he is winning by a huge margin, and just because you neurotic German Besserwisser are going crazy with DTS does not mean that you are right, period.

    Germany right now is writhing in derangement with DTS, and the entire population is being brainwashed to the point of psychosis. I was in Germany, my German wife is a (ret) Gymnasium teacher, several months ago and in a conversation with an elderly couple they informed me that a “good” German must hate DT. This is lunacy.

    Yeah we know : “Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen”

    AJM “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet and pro Jazz artist.

    PS : To the uninitiated : A Gymnasium in Europe is a sort of junior college.

  149. anonymous[605] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Trump wore a mask when he felt it was appropriate (bear in mind that everyone he saw was frequently tested).

    Why even try defending Trump on this point? Trump wore a mask on some occasions after a lot of arm twisting. He didn’t want to do it because it didn’t look tough.

  150. Coag says:
    @Altai

    Doubtful Trump got a bigger dose of the virus than Boris, who got the virus when he visited a hospital to intentionally shake the hands of coronavirus patients.

  151. anonymous[605] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Uh… he’s the President. He’s not your doctor, and he’s not your dad, you servile twit. He never spoke of “the Power of Positive Thinking” related to COVID, nor did he imply it, so why are you mentioning it, or putting it in quotes to obfuscate the fact that he never did, you lackluster homo?

    This is a place for intelligent discussion. Scram.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  152. @AnotherDad

    — Americans are fatter than the rest of the developed world; with many, many more obese people
    — we have a large black population, which is both fatter and less healthy and–on average–will not follow direction (significant numbers won’t follow basic criminal laws, they aren’t going to obey public health guidelines)

    This is the unspoken factor that many of us were dreading. Are we to believe that Blacks are washing their hands after using the restroom? Liberals haven’t been able to get Blacks to throw away their garbage. Drive around a Black area and tell me I’m wrong. There is a youtube video where this White liberal female loses it and lectures a group of Blacks on littering. They laugh at her of course.

    Liberals are unable to control Blacks and yet White liberals think they are the best hope for them.

    Liberal outcomes in fact assume you can’t control them. We saw this during the breakout in Queens where they said nothing about behavior. It was all about what the system (read White people) was doing wrong.

    White liberals want to lecture other Whites on how they are poor at handling Blacks. They think we are immoral for not treating Blacks like helpless animals. Liberals also tell us that they believe in equality.

  153. @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, Reagan lived up to that cowboy image. There’s no comparison between Donald Trump’s bluster and BS and the statesmanship of true tough guy Ronald Reagan.

    Reagan fought the War … in Hollywood. (Granted there’s an official “poor eyesight” reason.)

    When the American people most needed Reagan to stand strong … he signed the Simpson-Mazzoli illegal alien amnesty.

    No argument Trump’s a big blustering bag of wind–often quite frustrating and annoying. However, at least his sentiments are on the side of the American people and he’s push back a bit against the our open-borders elite and actually made some small progress in areas like the refugee scam.

  154. @AnotherDad

    Any of these tedious “America doesn’t measure up to ” arguments that does not take into account the reality of American demographics is nonsense. Yeah, we aren’t doing as well as Germany … guess what–this place isn’t full of Germans!

    Someone should compared the Germanic areas of Texas to Germany.

    Am guessing that like “gun crime” there isn’t a drastic difference.

  155. Muggles says:
    @RichardTaylor

    When the former Shah of Iran died in a Florida hospital back in the 80s (I think) he had been suffering from cancer, after being booted from Tehran. .

    He had been moved around to various nations because the Iranians were threatening any country who took him in. Finally the US did.

    I asked my cardiologist about why someone so prominent (and rich) would die so quickly despite excellent medical care (first in Egypt, then Panama, then the US as I recall). Of course cancer can kill despite treatment.

    He told me something of note. He said that celebrities/famous people often get worse outcomes than normal people. Why? Because there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Debates between physicians occur and they either get over-treated, making them worse off, or undergo treatments so unusual or experimental that failure is likely. I pressed him on this and he said that doctors tend to fuss over these kinds of patients and the usual course of treatment is rarely followed completely.

    Hence, you and I might be more likely to survive than someone famous. Doctors are human and famously are often very opinionated about their decisions. Also with famous patients family members and their threats of bad publicity pressure treating physicians to take more risks than for others who are not in the public eye. Counter-intuitive.

    “Thoughts and prayers” may not help Trump much. The Woke Supremacists are spinning their prayer wheels for death (and posting online, their true God) faster than normal people can balance out. The Almighty has yet to chime in.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
  156. @Thomas

    They are evil, traitorous people but the people responsible for Democrat messaging are a whole lot smarter and a whole lot less dorky than you.

    People who are actually confident there guys is gonna win aren’t throwing up 3K words in message sections. Rofl dork.

  157. @Franz

    Along the lines of people getting more “conservative” as they age, there seems to be a “sweet spot” where someone is old enough to be wise without being an old fogey. In the old days, people didn’t live long enough to get much past that point, hence all those people you read about in the UK or the colonies who went to Oxford at 12, or took over the family business at 25, etc.

    The problems seems to be that what will all our scientific medicine and life-extension, the elite is increasing not so much mature as geriatric, and chooses “nice, safe” candidates like itself. It takes longer and longer to climb the greasy pole as well, with all those geezers in the way (hence, #MeToo).

    • Replies: @Franz
  158. Art Deco says:
    @AnotherDad

    Reagan fought the War … in Hollywood. (Granted there’s an official “poor eyesight” reason.)

    His wife was pregnant when he was due to register for Selective Service in October 1940 and he had dependent children from January of 1941 onward. Men with dependent children were initially exempt from conscription and remained so until the fall of 1943. He enlisted in April 1942 anyway. What’s your contention, that his vision problems were fake or that he found some string to pull to get a soft assignment?

  159. @PiltdownMan

    Why, it’s almost as if the lockdown/masking is the whole point. One might even suspect the whole “virus” thing is a hoax. I don’t have it, and I don’t know anyone who does.

    I now await scores of anonymous voices on the internet berating me with their tragic tales of people “they” “know” have died from it. There’s proof for yah!

    • Replies: @Keypusher
  160. anon[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nodwink

    He’s not taking HCQ because that was just a ruse to boost stock prices for one of Trump’s dodgy mates.

    Which stock price was boosted? Which dodgy mate benefited?

    I’m sure you recall that HCQ is so generic that it’s manufactured in India for pennies per dose…don’t you?

  161. @Lot

    Wrong.

    Remdisivir is indicated in early stages of symptomatic disease to lessen effects and shorten hospitalization.

  162. Thomas says:

    @AnotherDad

    The better job “managing this crisis” would have been an immediate closure of the border when this broke out in Wuhan and hard quarantine for any Americans coming home, or showing infection.

    The US is not prepared to do this–which is an obvious public health 101 capability to anyone who is even semi-literate in history and biology–because we have a traitorous minoritarian open-borders elite. (People who fundamentally aren’t Americans but cosmopolitan globalists.)

    Shutting down the borders would have been great. And a global pandemic would have been the perfect opportunity for Trump to make the case that immediate and vigorous executive action of that sort was necessary to protect the public from a threat from overseas that lined up perfectly with so many of the hazardous pre-conditions Trump had talked about during his successful campaign for president (i.e., open borders and China). When people talk about a “wartime presidency,” that’s what they mean: the executive making use of a national crisis both to expand their own power and to improve their political fortunes. Presidents have been doing that since Lincoln (the first Republican president).

    But Trump didn’t make that case! He didn’t even really try! And it wasn’t because of any “traitorous minoritarian open-borders elite.” It was because he didn’t really want to. It was because the economy and #stonks had completely taken over his thinking as the case for his Presidency and re-election (and probably was the primary concern of many of the people he personally talks to from his social circle). And possibly also because he feared the risks of personal failure and being seen as a loser if he made the case and got shot down by the media, the Democrats, and the courts.

    I’m not sympathetic to the argument that Trump, or any other president, is so constrained either by the Constitution or by the bureaucracy or by ostensible pre-conditions that they were unable to act in a crisis. Crises, ably managed, have been what have empowered presidents and the Executive Branch throughout the history of the Republic. That may be harmful to the Constitution and the separation of powers, especially over the long term, but it’s been good for presidents and their political fortunes.

    And, frankly, when presidents have made the bid for increased powers in a crisis, they’ve more often been successful than not. If Obama had been President and had sought to impose a strict quarantine on the country in a crisis like the current pandemic (assuming he had the desire to do so), not just externally but also, say, forcibly quarantining New York City, I believe he would have been successful. The opposition that Trump faced when he floated doing something similar, and any objections based on the law, would have mysteriously been absent. And that is not merely because Obama was the favored son of the establishment while Trump is not. If G.W. Bush had even tried, he probably would have been successful, albeit with probably greater opposition and a need to expend greater effort convincing the public. (Bush shut down air travel after 9/11, and ultimately managed to get the country into a war against another country that had had nothing to do with 9/11 18 months later just off of the residual empowerment he got from that crisis. That’s an example of using presidential power for nefarious ends, to be sure, but it’s an example of effectively using presidential power out of a crisis nevertheless.)

    Presidents who suddenly decided to be sticklers about the limits on their powers in a crisis include Buchanan and Hoover. Presidents who tested and flexed the limits of their powers include Lincoln, TR, FDR, G.W. Bush, and Obama, all of whom won reelection. Truman, who faced a famously close 1948 reelection bid (“Dewey Defeats Truman!”) and a whole host of crises in his Presidency (end of WWII, post-war recession, start of the Cold War, Korean War), said it: “the buck stops here.” Neither that phrase nor the sentiment is anything that would ever come from Trump. As a result, as things stand now, Trump’s chances of a similar incumbent underdog upset as the one Truman managed are slim and getting slimmer.

    And ultimately, when people talk about a president being “presidential,” one big thing they mean is rising to occasions, like national crises, and showing national leadership, even if much of it may be little more than showmanship. It doesn’t operate on a factual or functional level but on an emotional and moral level. Mincing over the finer points of who could or should have been in charge of the CDC or the FDA or whether this or that lower-level bureaucrat is to blame is missing the forest for the trees. The voters don’t care about that stuff, and it sounds to them like excuse-making. Ben Shapiro-style “facts and logic” or Paul Ryan-style numbers aren’t going to talk people out of these impressions they have of the candidates. A majority of New Yorkers still think Andrew Cuomo did a good job of managing the pandemic, no matter what about nursing homes.

    You can criticize this and say that free people ought not to be clamoring for leadership like this, but it’s just what people do. The existence of these human factors as decisive in a democracy are an objective reality. I think Trump dropped the ball badly on managing leadership in a national crisis. I think more likely than not, that’s the decisive impression that a decisive number of voters are going to have when they cast their vote. And I think Trump is probably going to lose as a result. I don’t welcome that outcome. Among other things, I’m building an AR-10 in my garage right now before the new Biden gun bans come down. But I think it’s what’s likely to happen.

    • Agree: epebble
  163. The doctors have reported that Trump was “fatigued” as well as being “energetic”.

    This makes me wonder why he is being treated with Melatonin, which is known to make people drowsy and groggy if the right dose is exceeded, and does not appear to be significant in treating Covid-19.

    I suppose one can assume that Trump is capable of reading the directions on a bottle, although some people have said he never reads anything. But at the age of 74, what might be an OK dose for a younger person, could be too much.

    And why is he not being treated by a specialist geriatrician?

  164. @Muggles

    Similar thing happened to Prince. He was just another guy with a drug problem but since he was PRINCE … he needed the secret sauce de luxe junkie de-juicing. Right? No, he didn’t, if he had gone to Hennepin County Medical Center he would have received first rate care.

    Also, Andy Warhol.

    p.s Trump‘s hospitalisation knocked the debate and RBG canonization out of the headlines.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
  165. @AnotherDad

    Ronald Reagan, along with millions of (mostly American) soldiers, sailors, airmen, and engineers/technicians, won the Cold War. That was a Big Deal, A.D., as I’m sure you know. This was after decades of hemming and hawing that we can’t win this, just contain them, let’s unilaterally disarm (Jimmy Carter years, though not the man himself), etc. The politicians were shocked when President Reagan called the USSR the “evil empire”. Do you remember that?

    Ronald Reagan had a great love for the American people. He had too much respect, or I should say trust, in the American people that were in the US Congress, unfortunately. He was suckered into both that 1986 amnesty bill signing (admitting later that it was one of his worst mistakes), which was supposed to be part of a deal of which the other end was control of the border, and the signing of budgets that did not have the cuts in the Socialist part of the budget in return for the increases in the defense budget*.

    Peak Stupidity has some comparisons between President Trump and President Reagan, which I started because Donnie himself compared himself favorably to Ronnie, in that usual blustering way. I disagree with the President on this issue:

    See “Ronnie vs. Donnie – Intro.”,
    “Ronnie vs. Donnie – 1: The Personalities”,
    “Ronnie vs. Donnie – 2: Foreign Policy”,
    “Ronnie vs. Donnie – 3: Domestic Policy”, and
    “Ronnie vs. Donnie: Conclusion”.

    .

    * Now I’d call it the warfare budget, but the defense budget at that time WAS still mostly for defense of the country.

  166. SBaker says:
    @Twinkie

    Keep in mind Cole Younger took 11 rounds from large caliber rifles and handguns during the Minnesota bank robbery in the late 19th century, survived 20 years in prison, and went on to become a professional speaker for a decade or so after that. He donated his farm in Blue Springs, Missouri where Blue Springs hospital now stands and my cousin is head of internal medicine.

  167. SBaker says:
    @The Alarmist

    I don’t know about President Trump, but I am certain there are people spreading the virus intentionally. People who have mild cases become biological vectors.

  168. Charlie says:

    Trump is unlikely to get the benefits of HCQ+ as it is not an NIH recommended therapeutic…

    The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 in hospitalized patients.

    In nonhospitalized patients, the Panel recommends against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial.

    The Panel recommends against the use of high-dose chloroquine (600 mg twice daily for 10 days) for the treatment of COVID-19.

    The Panel recommends against using hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat COVID-19, except in a clinical trial.

    https://files.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/guidelines/covid19treatmentguidelines.pdf

    The NIH does however love Remdesivir.

    For myself, not being the Leader of the Free World and definitely NOT A DOCTOR, I keep a tube of Ivermectin paste (Apple Flavored!) in the medicine cabinet and will dose myself at the first hint of Covid. There’s enough Ivermectin in a $10 tube for Trump and a half dozen of his closest allies.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  169. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    President Donald Trump’s doctor on Saturday painted a rosy picture of the president’s health as he remains hospitalized for coronavirus treatment. But that assessment was immediately contradicted by a person familiar with Trump’s condition, who said the president was administered supplemental oxygen on Friday at the White House.

    As well, Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, said the president went through a “very concerning” period Friday and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care.

    https://www.fox9.com/news/trump-administered-supplemental-oxygen-hours-after-being-diagnosed-with-covid-19

  170. utu says:
    @AnotherDad

    “Trump was right on hydroxychloroquine.” – Are you sure?

    Hydroxychloroquine No More Effective Than Placebo in Preventing COVID-19. (September 30, 2020)
    https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2020/september/hydroxychloroquine-no-more-effective-than-placebo-in-preventing-covid19

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  171. I think Trump dropped the ball badly on managing leadership in a national crisis. I think more likely than not, that’s the decisive impression that a decisive number of voters are going to have when they cast their vote.

    Quite so. Bermuda and Jamaica have had their economies devastated by Covid-19, and yet the governments of both were returned with landslide wins recently in general elections.

    Austerity moves in Bermuda included 10% pay cuts for all politicians, government employees, police, firemen, and prison officers, and the government still won in a landslide.

    The fact that they have the coronavirus fairly well under control could be a factor. Yesterday there Today there were 396 test results received by the Ministry of Health, and none were positive for COVID-19. Bermuda has had 181 total confirmed positive cases. Their status is as follows: there are 3 active cases, none of whom are in hospital.

    Jamaica’s Andrew Holness has taken the lead in calling for a Marshall plan for the whole Caribbean region (an idea also supported by various south American leaders and the Barbados PM), but one suspects that if it happens the funds will come from China rather than the US.

    Where is the US leadership in the region? Seemingly preoccupied with the threat to the United States from Venezuela, whose government is supposedly using narcotics to destroy America–like America is not capable of killing its own people with narcotics made in the USA.

    Even if an economy is destroyed, leaders who have integrity and the trust of their supporters can still win elections if they are honest about the Covid-19 virus.

    When you tell a lie every time you open your mouth, your credibility tends to suffer.

  172. @AndrewR

    What a jerky response. There’s a thing called reading, it helps you learn about the past even if you weren’t there yourself.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  173. @Thomas

    Latest news is he’s doing fine, which would have the exact opposite effect of Hillary’s stumble. Nobody will blame him for catching the virus and he’ll look like Superman if he sails through it fat and 74.

  174. Corvinus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “If you had Trump’s symptoms and went to a hospital, they’d send you home. You really can’t draw any inferences based on the time frame between Trump’s diagnosis and admittance. A sitting President with a novel disease is a sample size of one.”

    To the contrary.

    Kyle Griffin–More clean-up attempts from the White House. Dr. Conley now claims that he misspoke *twice* about basic facts during his earlier briefing.

    Seth Abramson–The problem: what we’re being told *isn’t* true. Trump’s medical records—per major media—have in the past been doctored. His medical records—per major media—have included false data. And his trip to Walter Reed in late ’19 was never explained because a condition was being hidden.

    “Trump wore a mask when he felt it was appropriate (bear in mind that everyone he saw was frequently tested).”

    Which was quite rare. It’s all about him, not the people around him. Currently, we have no information to suggest that President Trump was masked while he met with donors in New Jersey on Thursday. If in fact he received his diagnosis on Wednesday, then he was trying to extract funds from his supporters at their own peril.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-virus-spread-white-house/2020/10/02/38c5b354-04cc-11eb-b7ed-141dd88560ea_story.html#click=https://t.co/Ro0ueKnM0z

    “No one wears a mask all the time”.

    Yes, we do.

    “The main difference between Trump and other public figures on mask wearing is he didn’t virtue signal about it.”

    No, he just mocks people who do.

    “Maybe Trump could have avoided getting COVID if he hadn’t been campaigning for reelection…”

    You mean he ought to have taken the necessary precautions when he was campaigning, but that would project weakness on his part. Remember, everything to him is transactional.

    “Leadership involves taking risks, and Trump risked his health to fight against that.”

    Except he took unnecessary risks.

  175. @Thomas

    I agree but would put it this way: Trump avoids playing games that he doesn’t think he can win. But sometimes the president has to play games he is likely lose, for the good of the country. The obvious example is the riots. He made a calculation, probably correct, that a Federal crackdown on the riots would be spun against him. It shouldn’t have mattered. He should have cracked down and taken the heat. That’s what presidents are supposed to do.

    • Agree: Thomas
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Thomas
  176. Anon7 says:
    @Thomas

    @Thomas, thanks for writing; I don’t agree with you, but I appreciate a clear, forceful statement.

    I just wanted to talk about masks. On March 8th, Dr. Fauci made these definitive statements about wearing masks; start about 20 seconds in:

    Dr. Fauci: “In the United States, people should not be walking around wearing masks.”

    He also explains why they are of no use. If you look on the CDC website, published in May, you can find a summary of studies that concludes that wearing masks was not useful.

    This was the advice that President Trump was getting; this was the “science”.

    It will probably take years to figure out what really went on in the US during this pandemic. It probably is some combination of late protection of nursing homes in some states, the fact that a large percentage of the US population is older and much less healthy (more co-morbidities, more doctors pushing pills that palliate illness rather than encouraging patients to live in a healthy way) than in other parts of the world, and we have a far more diverse population than other countries in the world.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  177. Deleted due to duplication

    AJM

  178. @Corvinus

    Bullshit, you cannot know they were unnecessary risks. We’ll never know whether the virus got into him while he was jawboning without a mask at a rally, or during an emergency meeting concerning some critical issue where not all participants had time to don masks and wash their hands, or in a room that could not be completely sanitized. I could just as well take the position that he’s a hero for sacrificing his health to serve the country, and it would be equally as supported as your claim. And if he did get it during a campaign event, well, he can’t serve the country if he doesn’t win the election.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  179. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    LOL, are you kidding?

    N=125 total, divided in half is ~ 62. The reported infection rates are 6-6.5%. So, the comparison is between 3-4 people in each group. Talk about being underpowered. The people who did this study are illiterate morons.

    And only people with two-digits IQ would believe their garbage conclusions.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @utu
  180. @Anonymous

    By “virtue signalling” do you mean “Leaders setting an example for the public”?

    No, by “virtue signalling” we mean “Leaders setting an example for the public only when they’re on camera.”

  181. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Controlling an epidemic on a small island is a vastly different problem that controlling it in a vast continental nation of 50 states.

    Calling for ” a Marshall plan” is another name for calling for gib-me -dats. What brave leadership – to ask for a handout. I’ve never known any sort of African who was NOT in favor of receiving handouts.

    The Europeans had a reason for needing a Marshall Plan – they had just suffered a devastating war (while the US was intact). And were in the middle of a Cold War competition with the Soviets.

    Nothing has happened in the Caribbean that didn’t happen in the US. And sorry, invoking the Chinese is not going to get us to open our wallets. The Chinese can have the Caribbean, as far as I am concerned. We let the Soviets have Cuba and it only weakened them due to all the $ they wasted on Castro. “Owning” a Caribbean island is like owning a boat – it’s a hole in the water into which you pour money. Since they ended slavery you can’t even get them to grow sugar cane anymore.

    The entire Columbian discovery turned out to be a scheme for repopulating the Western Hemisphere with Africans. In the Caribbean this plan succeeded almost 100%. In N. America there was a brief interlude where Europeans dominated but that era is almost over.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  182. peterike says:
    @Thomas

    Moral leadership is “we set a personal example for how you should act.” It has a purpose beyond simple vanity. That’s why FDR’s White House was known for terrible cuisine through the Depression and WWII (when rationing was in effect)

    It’s telling that you pick one of the most demonic psychopaths ever to hold the office of President as you exemplar of moral leadership.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  183. peterike says:
    @Thomas

    Presidents who tested and flexed the limits of their powers include Lincoln, TR, FDR, G.W. Bush, and Obama, all of whom won reelection.

    That also happens to be an arguable list for five worst Presidents in American history, though Teddy might fall out of the top five. What you basically mean is that Presidents that go along with — call it what you will — the Deep State, New World Order, etc. manage to have their massive crimes ignored and shoved down the memory hole and get re-elected because few really knew what they were up to.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  184. Lot says:
    @Thomas

    “Trump did one thing unambiguously right shutting down direct flights from China early in the outbreak”

    He didn’t. He gets away with lying about this because antitrumpers will never say “We needed a China travel ban and you failed to do it.”

    US based airlines *voluntary* cancelled their Chinese flights.

    Even while China was in full lockdown mode and Wuhanese couldn’t travel by road, Chinese airlines were allowed to fly Wuhan to USA flights, and they did so.

    Many of us in March were posting links to flightaware and saying “WTF how is this flight from a pandemic epicenter being allowed to enter the USA?”

    • Thanks: Thomas
    • Replies: @Coemgen
    , @AnotherDad
  185. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Note to everyone: Quit citing the Washington Post as your reliable fact source on anything related to President Trump. The discussion here is about the President contracting COVID, not about you being a stupid asshole. Newspapers that declare eternal vigilant animosity against President Trump, at the expense of clear time-honored journalistic tenets are off the drawing board.

    Additionally, the NYT, which explicitly stated that they were incapable of reporting objectively about Trump because “the stakes were too high,” is also off the list of credible citations by their own declaration.

    Currently, and fior the next generation, they’re just a another Jewishly perverse fetid fan rag for godless Jewish mobsters, preaching lies to and for their tribe, and the common illiterate lowbrow plebes.

    They are the “Hustler Magazine” of Jewish journalism. Nothing more.

    Thanks in advance.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  186. Mr. Anon says:
    @Thomas

    Nobody likes wearing the damn masks. Nobody would choose to wear them. I’m grateful that in my profession, I don’t have to wear one for most of my work day, and I feel bad for people who have public-facing jobs in which they do. But it’s supposedly being done for a reason.

    The TSA fondling your junk is supposedly being done for a reason. Our now nineteen year-old war in Afghanistan is supposedly being done for a reason. Critical Race Theory indoctrination training is supposedly being done for a reason.

    I understand Liberal’s enthusaism for masks and for every other busy-body public health measure – they are brainwashed robots who believe everything they hear on NPR, at least they appear to me to be so. I even understand it among conservatives, given that conservatives in this country are mostly just watered-down liberals.

    But among the dissident right, I find it harder to fathom. A lot of people have no problem believing that government officials like Alex Vindman and Mike Pompeo are full of it when they tell us how it serves the interests of the American people to meddle in Ukraine or Syria. Or when Christopher Wray tells us that the greatest terrorist threat to America are the Proud Boys. Or when Eric Holder tells us that we need to have a “conversation on race”. But if Anthony Fauci tells us we must do whatever he says on that particular day – because science – they believe him.

    As to the issue of setting an example, consider the case of Anthony Fauci. When he threw out the first pitch at the Washington Nationals game, he was wearing a mask – while standing on the pitchers mound in an almost completely empty stadium. Of course he was seen not wearing it later, sitting next to a couple of friends in the stands, but we’ll ignore that for now. Now you can say he was setting an example. But I thought what Fauci stood for was SCIENCE!!!! and DATA!!!, and “following the science and the data”. But wearing a mask outdoors on a summer day when you’re sixty feet from the nearest person isn’t being all sciencey, it’s just putting on a show. His show isn’t supposed to be moral example. His show is supposed to be science.

  187. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jamaica’s Andrew Holness has taken the lead in calling for a Marshall plan for the whole Caribbean region (an idea also supported by various south American leaders and the Barbados PM), but one suspects that if it happens the funds will come from China rather than the US.

    The Caribbean doesn’t need a Marshall Plan. They need to improve the skill levels of their populace and remove impediments to doing business (e.g. reducing the quantum of street crime).

  188. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    @Dave Pinsen

    “No one wears a mask all the time”.

    Yes, we do.

    He wasn’t talking about your gimp mask.

    I suppose you are one of these people who wears a maks while driving alone in your car.

  189. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    The Caribbean states are middle income countries with passably civil political societies. The big problem therein with the quality of life is street crime.

  190. SLM says:
    @Anonymous

    Famotidine has been shown to improve outcomes of patients hospitalized with COVID.

  191. Imagine an alternate history in which Steve Sailer doesn’t get enrolled in a clinical trial and dies. He is no longer around to create a blog. As a result many of us never get red-pilled and have been tweeting for the last four years about orange Hitler destroying the republic and the planet.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  192. Thomas says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The TSA fondling your junk is supposedly being done for a reason. Our now nineteen year-old war in Afghanistan is supposedly being done for a reason. Critical Race Theory indoctrination training is supposedly being done for a reason.

    You’re all over the place here with a laundry list of unrelated issues that are off point.

    On point, as Orwell once said, “some things are true even though they’re in the Daily Telegraph.” After seven months, we can unambiguously say Operation “Just the Flu,” to convince anyone that COVID-19 is not that big a deal, is an unambiguous failure. The public doesn’t believe it and isn’t going to believe it anytime soon. They’re certainly not going to accept it in the next four weeks to the election. Anyone who wants to still debate how many case fatality rate angels can dance on the head of an R0 pin now is missing the point, and is having an argument with themselves.

    The pandemic is a political fact. The public perceives it as serious. It has the President in the hospital four weeks from an election he’s losing. It will be sidelining an increasing number of his staff and political allies for weeks. The political reality of the pandemic between now and the election is an unbreakable ring of steel from which no amount of flubroing will allow an escape.

    So yes, that’s a reason that the public will and does accept for masks, and they won’t be convinced of otherwise now. As noted, the attempts to do so have failed and the objective facts of their lives (whether caused by the disease itself or by the reactions thereto) keep confirming for them that it is a big deal.

    The President tried to act as if it wasn’t a big deal, against public perceptions, and probably mostly for reasons arising out of his own psychological idiosyncrasies and poor information management within his administration. He’s failed to convince the public of that view, and his own current personal circumstances are now further confirmatory evidence to the public that he was wrong. He had an alternative, which would have been to get out ahead of the public and take decisive leadership, as I said he should have. But he didn’t and he’s probably going to pay dearly for it.

    • Disagree: Travis
    • Replies: @BN
    , @Mr. Anon
  193. @peterike

    Swap out Teddy for Wilson; altho, OTOH, it was Teddy who was responsible for electing Wilson, so there’s that anyway. IIRC, a lot of Wilson’s dirty deeds were “for the duration” of the war, which itself was a false flag event.

  194. Thomas says:
    @Anon7

    just wanted to talk about masks. On March 8th, Dr. Fauci made these definitive statements about wearing masks; start about 20 seconds in:

    Basing current decisions and perceptions based on what was going on in March at this point merits the same response to Trump’s invocation of the decision to shut down flights from China: “what about since then?” Everyone has been learning about this disease as time has gone on. Adjusting expectations and decisions on the basis of new information should go without saying.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    , @Travis
  195. Carol says:
    @Anonymous

    Osteopaths seem to be respectable now. I was surprised too. Their courses are supposed to be equal in rigor to MD school, with some chiro-type woo thrown in.

    But they are the low scorers on the mcat. I mean you don’t choose the DO route if you can help it.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
  196. Keypusher says:
    @James O'Meara

    Does the President have it? Is the President sick?

  197. @Mr. Anon

    The problem is people treat SCIENCE as if it were a person, who says, declares, decides, etc.

    Science is a methodology, people use it, then tell us what happens. Science can be a valid method, but people can use it badly, or cheat, or lie about results (eg. Lancet on COVID).

    “Science says” really mean (if anything) “Some guy says science says.” Fauci, for example, is a liar and a stooge; nothing wrong with science itself.

    Christians learned the trick from the Jews: they call their god “God” as if that was his name; it insinuates that my god isn’t just my god or a god, but the only god, god as such; so your god was really my god all along. They pulled this trick on the Persians, as L. Guyot has documented here.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Anonymous
  198. anon[199] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump should’ve stayed on HCQ.

    I don’t get why they’re giving him Remdisivir. That shit barely makes a difference.

    Why didn’t they give him the steroid shot?

  199. Anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    Anonymous sources are saying he is doing much worse than the White House is letting on. Given that mendacity is the Trump style, the sources are more believable, and Pence better prepare to start campaigning. We need to keep the Dems out of the WH.

  200. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Faraday's Bobcat

    I agree but would put it this way: Trump avoids playing games that he doesn’t think he can win. But sometimes the president has to play games he is likely lose, for the good of the country. The obvious example is the riots. He made a calculation, probably correct, that a Federal crackdown on the riots would be spun against him. It shouldn’t have mattered. He should have cracked down and taken the heat. That’s what presidents are supposed to do.

    Trump made an off-handed comment during the debate about NYC being devastated in the last 6 months and maybe it’s never coming back. A truly horrific comment that should have been seized upon by all the media but was totally ignored. IMHO, 99% of the decimation of NYC has come from the COVID shutdown. While Di Blasio and Cuomo are responsible for the continuing draconian measures it was the President who initiated the COVID response and total shutdown. And he as U.S. President has a lot of the responsibility for the fate of America’s largest city. Even if it’s run by leftists trying to hurt Trump he can’t view the handling of it as a zero-sum, winner-take-all, high-stakes political game. If a leader has too much pride to be seen as capitulating then he can have his surrogates approach diplomatically and work to get things going. The average Joe has almost no say in who runs his local or state government yet he is one most hurt by the political poker.

  201. AndrewR says:
    @Sam Malone

    Unbunch your panties and read my reaponse to Sam. Your angry comment suggests you are highly autistic, like your idol. And I do not mean to hate here. Autists need love too. But Steve acting like he’s 100 years old is pretty cringe.

  202. Prosa123 says:
    @Jack Armstrong

    Prince suffered an overdose on his private jet and it made an emergency landing in Iowa. The local hospital wanted to keep him for a while but he refused and soon left. Given the circumstances the hospital could have kept him against his will, and probably would have done so with an average person, but he was a big celebrity and got his way.

  203. @nebulafox

    If we were to get a President Pence, he would come to believe that God wants him to make war on Iran, a vision reinforced by Israel lobbyists telling him so at every opportunity.

  204. AndrewR says:
    @anon

    I was born in the ’80s and I am nostalgic for real times I never knew. I am also nostalgic for fantastic times no one has ever known. Imagine 23nd century technology with 19th century demographics. LET’S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  205. Coemgen says:
    @Carol

    Osteopath? Perhaps the President prefers an outsider to the medical establishment as his personal provider. A brilliant insider may be apt to come up with a clever way of “ridding himself of this turbulent president.”

  206. BB753 says:
    @James O'Meara

    Nietzsche and Heidegger were all for nihilism, but not of the kind you think of.
    Our current nihilism runs deeper and comes from darker sources. Read Fr. Seraphim Rose’s Nihilism.

  207. BN says:
    @Thomas

    how do you factor the media in all this? Clearly they were going to attack no matter what course he took. Also, a sizeable amount of his base, which he still needs, have the same outlook towards the virus as he does. I have the same outlook. Sure, it’s real, but it’s not dangerous for most people. Most people have been propogandized into hysterics, conservatives included. The fact that Trump is in the hospital doesn’t change that. No president has ever faced opposition (in the media and elsewhere) like Trump, I don’t think that can be disputed. That factors into his ability to do the things you wanted him to do. “Failed to convince the public of that view” – do you not think the media plays a role in this? The daily case numbers plastered all over tv for months?

    • Agree: Travis
  208. @Charlie

    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

    Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in cell cultures.7 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.

    Ivermectin administration was reportedly consistent with hospital guidelines: a single dose of 200 µg/kg, with repeat dosing on Day 7 if the patient was still hospitalized (13 patients received a second dose). Ninety percent of the ivermectin group and 97% of the usual care group received hydroxychloroquine (the majority received hydroxychloroquine in conjunction with azithromycin).
    All-cause mortality was lower among the patients in the ivermectin group than among patients in the usual care group (OR 0.27; P = 0.03). The mortality benefit appeared to be limited to the subgroup of patients with severe disease.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    , @Charlie
  209. Anon7 says:
    @Thomas

    “Adjusting expectations and decisions on the basis of new information should go without saying.”

    Absolutely agree. Where’s all that new information, though?

    The CDC strikes me as one of those backwater government departments that can go for a decade or more without a crisis, and so they settle into a comfortable stasis where people fight over office space, affirmative action or whatever management philosophy is in fashion, salary and so forth.

    They know the enemies – Chickenpox, Diphtheria and tetanus and pertussis (DTaP), Hepatitis, HPV, measles and influenza. They know the solution – vaccines. The CDC spends almost half of its budget ($12 billion) on buying vaccines.

    It doesn’t attract the best talent.

    One of my favorite Biden ads is one where he effectively accuses Trump of killing 200k people with incompetence, adding that we now know (in the present) what he should have done (in the past), and so why didn’t he do it? Because Biden would certainly do it if he becomes President. Biden the 20/20 hindsight president.

    I think the best advice we now know is that there really is such a thing as Covid19, and if you are 1) old and or 2) are obese and or 3) have heart disease, respiratory disease or diabetes, then for God’s sake don’t go to a bar, restaurant, sports venue, health club that is packed with people, whether masks are worn or not. Because although some viruses just go away, this one doesn’t and until you can get a working vaccine you’re vulnerable, and I don’t like the chance of dying if you get it.

    If you’re not in those groups, then wear masks if they’re required or if you feel more comfortable, and don’t go visit grandma and grandpa, or your obese, diabetic uncle under any circumstances.

    Doesn’t everyone know this advice? Now, anyway.

    • Replies: @BB753
  210. Travis says:
    @Thomas

    There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles. https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
    • Thanks: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Anon7
  211. @Anonymous

    Read the links I posted in the comment to AnotherDad. It’s not just that Reagan was statesmanlike. He had a long-term strategy, worked out by his employees who were actually loyal to him. Sure, he couldn’t get everything done that he’d and we’d have liked.

    I don’t mind at all, #285, when Trump says all kinds of off-the-wall stuff. The problem is that he hardly ever follows through. Reagan was much more a man of his word, when the D’s (who’d run the whole show already for 3 decades in Congress, if you recall) wouldn’t block him. Trump had an R Senate and House for 2 years, for crying out loud. That was the time to get things done. What’d he do? He hired swamp people who worked against him, and he got distracted like a 6 week-old kitten by the stupid Russia thing. #CONCENTRATE!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  212. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes, sample was small : (4 of 64 [6.3%] vs 4 of 61 [6.6%]; P > .99). But quantify the probability based on that N=125 sample result that hydroxychloroquine is less than 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%… effective?

    Why hydroxychloroquine’s appeal endures despite evidence it doesn’t work for Covid-19
    https://medcitynews.com/2020/08/why-hydroxychloroquines-appeal-endures-despite-evidence-it-doesnt-work-for-covid-19/

    • Replies: @utu
  213. Art Deco says:
    @epebble

    He would get nearly all Trump votes plus all NeverTrumper Republicans (like George Conway of Lincoln Project)

    There are no NeverTrumper Republicans at street-level. It’s an undetectable demographic. The people you see are all opinion journalists who have no rapport with ordinary Republican voters. Some of them are living on endowment income and others are bought-and-paid-for by Pierre Omidyar, minions of Bezos and Sulzberger, and public broadcasting.

  214. @Achmed E. Newman

    oops, Reagan did have a GOP-majority Senate. So, there was that…

    (I was reading over my posts linked-to above on Ronnie vs. Donnie. I think you’d agree with it all.)

  215. Art Deco says:
    @anon

    Men have an approximate 10 year shorter life expectancy.

    For people Trump’s age, the gap in life expectancy between men and women is 1.85 years. The difference in life expectancy at birth is currently 5 years.

  216. @BB753

    I am not usually a big conspiracy guy.
    However, this has DeepState/Brennan’s fingerprints all over it.
    Trump, campaign higher-ups, judiciary committee members infected at ACB presentation?!
    Now, after all this time, when the worst is over?!
    Then you have Schumer suggesting last nite the hearings should be held back.
    The timing of this is all too convenient.

    One has to ask oneself two questions:
    1) could they do it?
    2)would they do it.
    Answers clearly yes to both.

    Tucker intimated as much the other nite, but got no takers.

    • Agree: BB753, Coemgen
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  217. Richard B says:
    @RichardTaylor

    I’d worry about them getting too aggressive with meds or putting him on a ventilator.

    I’d worry about them using this to change Covid to Coupvid.

    Since it’s not at all clear how many of them are on the other side, though it’s very clear not a few have been more than willing to make a mockery of their Hippocratic oath, it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility. And how would we know?

    Besides, most Americans are still, after everything, more than willing to believe whatever the media tells them.

  218. Franz says:
    @James O'Meara

    The problems seems to be that what will all our scientific medicine and life-extension, the elite is increasing not so much mature as geriatric, and chooses “nice, safe” candidates like itself.

    But this is an old problem.

    Lenny Bruce’s only funny routine, back in the early 60s, was about Kennedy as opposed to Ike. Bruce’s point was that Eisenhower was too old for insurance companies to issue a policy on (life expectancy then was 62). Why did people in the 50s have an uninsurable president? World War II guys have early nostalgia for their glory days?

    Bruce’s point actually has merit. Jack Kennedy had little kids he wanted to see grow; Ike was past all that. It might be better to have a guy who wants the near-future to be safe, sane and prosperous. An old geezer has a shorter time horizon, more likely to deal in abstractions. Little kids teething are as far from abstract as it gets.

    • Replies: @Marty
    , @Art Deco
    , @Anonymous
  219. Art Deco says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    An event that pleased Allen Dulles. The JFK hit was a coup d’etat. It’s “silly” to think otherwise.

    You fancy inductive reasoning is ‘silly’. The Pres. and Gov. Connolly were shot by Lee Harvey Oswald. He was a no account who worked for no one. The President himself was, like his successor, a mainstream Democrat (just less populist in his inclination). No one in any ‘deep state’ had a motive to replace one with the other.

  220. @AndrewR

    Who reading that comment would be unfamiliar with Steve? Why don’t you reach a little further, snarkpuss.

  221. Corvinus says:
    @Faraday's Bobcat

    Of course we know how Trump got Covid 19. He refused to take the necessary precautions. The risk is therefore greater to contract it. He’s no hero if he knew he had it and choose to continue with his daily schedule, and especially when his campaign rallies are notorious for not consistently following protocols.

  222. @YetAnotherAnon

    They have been using ivermectin in the Dominican Republic and some other Latin countries. It is very cheap, and it kills the virus in the test tube.

    The problem is the same as with alcohol, which also kills the virus. Taking enough to kill off the virus in the body will kill you too. However, it is possible that taking the maximum safe dose of ivermectin could slow the multiplication of the virus.

    • Replies: @Charlie
  223. Sparkon says:
    @Travis

    Yet, in spite of all those fantastic studies showing that masks don’t work, events at the Great Clips hair salon in Springfield, MO in May, 2020 proved that face masks were 100% effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 from two stylists who were infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and sick with the COVID-19 disease with symptoms, but went into work anyway.

    One stylist at the Springfield salon served customers for eight days while sick, but both stylists and their 139 customers were wearing masks, as per city and company policy, and not one of the 139 customers was infected, or tested positive.

    Masks work to stop the spread of COVID-19.

    From the CDC’s Morbidity and Morality Weekly Report for July 17, 2020:

    Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists After Exposure at a Hair Salon with a Universal Face Covering Policy — Springfield, Missouri, May 2020

    Real world events trump laboratory studies, and prove that face coverings are effective in preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, and the spread of COVID-19.

    • Replies: @Travis
    , @Mr. Anon
  224. @James O'Meara

    The problem is people treat SCIENCE as if it were a person, who says, declares, decides, etc.

    This is what we call True Science(tm).

    I also sometimes call it the Peoples Equality Science.

    It’s amusing that liberals will mock Christians for being faith based but then tell us to not ask questions and follow True Science.

    “Science says” really mean (if anything) “Some guy says science says.” Fauci, for example, is a liar and a stooge; nothing wrong with science itself.

    The other problem is that they take consensus as absence of bias.

    9/10 Sociologists say that gender is a social construct. Well it must be true then!

    They have a hard time understanding how a department can be biased or how self-selection can be a problem. The type of person that points out the biological realities of gender isn’t going to last in Sociology. This is why critical theory exists. It’s a filtering system for Whites that can think critically.

  225. @Lot

    “Trump did one thing unambiguously right shutting down direct flights from China early in the outbreak”

    He didn’t. He gets away with lying about this because antitrumpers will never say “We needed a China travel ban and you failed to do it.”

    US based airlines *voluntary* cancelled their Chinese flights.

    Even while China was in full lockdown mode and Wuhanese couldn’t travel by road, Chinese airlines were allowed to fly Wuhan to USA flights, and they did so.

    Lot, my credit to Trump was a bit sloppy, but you’re also off base here.

    What Trump did do was ban foreign nationals from coming in from China. (Or if they had recently visited China.) The US airlines then pulled their China flights. You’re correct Chinese airlines continued to fly into the US–which was insane.

    However, no Wuhanese were escaping by air to the US. Chinese citizens could not enter the US. What was possible was Americans–basically we’re talking about Chinese immigrants to America–could continue to fly back to the US on Chinese airlines. (Potentially bringing the virus with them.)

    The bottom line here:
    Quarantines do work, but they have to come in *early*. And you have to be willing to inflict pain on people–where people end up stranded overseas, or end up in some sort of quarantine camp you’ve setup on a military base.

    The US is politically unable to do this now, because a significant fraction of our elite are basically traitors–globalists not loyal to America or Americans. You’re get wails of “racism!” and “discrimination!” and “xenophobia!” from people who should be figuring out how to protect Americans.

  226. Marty says:
    @Franz

    So this was one of the early straw men? Kennedy over Ike, who’s not eligible?

    • Replies: @Franz
  227. Marty says:
    @Mr. Anon

    With respect, one can’t conclude that liberals “really believe” in the Vid’s danger if they’re still calling AIDS a “pandemic,” as they are, e.g. in PSA’s now on radio from the San Francisco Giants.

  228. @Art Deco

    The Caribbean doesn’t need a Marshall Plan. They need to improve the skill levels of their populace and remove impediments to doing business (e.g. reducing the quantum of street crime).

    Libertarian BS.

    As if Haitians just need to go to night school and stop robbing each other.

    What we really need to do is export race denying liberals and conservatives to these countries.

    The new White man’s burden. Go breed some mulattoes.

  229. Matra says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Okay so here is a another German know-it-all, , a “deutscher Besserwisser”

    I’ve been meeting Germans since early childhood, almost 40 yrs now, and I don’t think I’ve ever met one who was not a deutscher Besserwisser.

  230. Anon7 says:
    @Travis

    Thanks. Long before Covid19, I had a discussion with my dentist, who had happened to wear a mask on that day. He said that he wasn’t sure, but he was concerned he might be catching a cold and so he wore it for the same reason that surgeons wear masks, etc.

    He added that dentists don’t wear masks all the time because they don’t work to protect the wearer! He added that if they worked, then every dentist on earth would wear masks every day, because they spend their professional lives looking right into the open mouths of patients, and they’re exposed to everything.

    I knew one pediatric dentist who always wore a PAPR, a Powered Air Purifying Respirator device. This guy, who ran a very lucrative practice, always struck me as one smart son of a bitch. I think he knew what he was doing.

  231. @LondonBob

    My brother had Hodgkins. Had his appendix removed as a boy, not his tonsils.

  232. @Jonathan Mason

    Jamaica’s Andrew Holness has taken the lead in calling for a Marshall plan for the whole Caribbean region (an idea also supported by various south American leaders and the Barbados PM), but one suspects that if it happens the funds will come from China rather than the US.

    Where is the US leadership in the region?

    Why does the US need to be the leader anywhere but the US?

    We can’t even provide basic shelter for everyone but there is this globalist attitude that we must be off fixing other countries.

    The British are the ones the made a mess in the Caribbean through race denial. They can try to fix the area or go drink tea. I really don’t care.

    I saw a recently homeless couple yesterday. They looked like they were just kicked out of their home. Where is their Marshall plan?

    Do you realize how much money the US has dumped into the third world since WW2? Hint: The third world is not a bombed out Europe. West Germany would have recovered on its own. They were actually a world economic power within 6 years of being turned into rubble which is incredible.

  233. @James O'Meara

    …..ok, but clearly what I was implying in my post is that willpower doesn’t apply to a disease. Sometimes you just die and there’s nothing you can do about it.

  234. Travis says:
    @Sparkon

    Anecdotal evidence. This was not a double blind study. Need to observe if customers would get effected if they were masklass.

    If these paper masks from china work , why do hospitals waste billions of dollars purchasing N95 masks ? multiple studies indicate that cloth masks do not work. The CDC has always stated that masks do not stop transmission of the flu or other respiratory illnesses. Has the CDC been lying to us for decades ?

    • Replies: @utu
  235. Lot says:
    @Coemgen

    Just what I said:

    “ The restriction does not include immediate family members of American citizens and permanent residents.”

    The flights from China to USA on Chinese airlines never stopped, even when Delta etc cancelled all such flights.

    I guess saying Chinese tourists who weren’t related to a citizen or permanent resident couldn’t come was better than nothing.

    We could have had a policy: One single case in a nation, all air travel suspended. We not only failed to do that, we failed to suspend the daily Wuhan to LA flights.

    China canceled domestic Wuhan flights Jan 22:

    https://nypost.com/2020/01/22/china-halts-travel-from-wuhan-amid-outbreak-of-deadly-coronavirus/

    But Wuhan-USA flights kept on going:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/disaster-motion-flights-coronavirus-ravaged-countries-landed-us/story?id=70025470

  236. @HyperDupont

    Imagine an alternate history

    That “Imagine” is of a piece with John Lennon’s “Imagine”. Imagine there’s no God…

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
  237. Thomas says:
    @Faraday's Bobcat

    Trump has never faced the Kobayashi Maru test.

  238. @pepperinmono

    The timing of this is all too convenient

    October… Surprise!

  239. Charlie says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Except that Ivermectin is proving to be very effective as a treatment for all stages of COVID-19 at the standard dosage of 200 ug/kg. On Thursday’s COVID Update, Chris Martenson highlighted a study out of Bangladesh showing very good results, far better than Remdesivir. The study I think gave a single 6 mg dose of Ivermectin which is probably a little less then the standard 200 ug/mg.

    Peak Prosperity COVID Update, Oct 1 2020 (study starts at 8:00):

    Ivermectin works
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science&#8230;

    Ivermectin a Broad Spectrum Antiviral
    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/9/9/2100

    • Replies: @Clyde
  240. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @TTSSYF

    Have you ever done something to model good behavior to a child even though you knew it was a waste of time? Think of the left half of the bell curve here.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  241. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cloudbuster

    There are numerous Western nations with Death per 100,000 rates much worse than the US.

    There are only two nations that are comparable:

    U.S.A. 65
    Spain: 69
    Belgium: 87

    Unfortunately, at the current rate, U.S. will pass Spain this month and Belgium in January 2021 to be the worst.

    But there are likely genetic factors that give rise to strange phenomena like this:

    Covid-19 Death Statistics: (per 100,000)

    Eritrea: 0
    Burundi: 0.008
    Tanzania: 0.03
    Mozambique: 0.2
    Uganda: 0.2
    Rwanda 0.2
    Western Sahara: 0.2
    DRC: 0.3
    Benin: 0.3
    Burkina Faso: 0.3
    Niger: 0.3
    South Sudan: 0.4
    Nigeria: 0.5
    Ivory Coast:0. 5
    Guinea: 0.5
    Chad: 0.5
    Angola: 0.6
    Somalia: 0.6
    Mali: 0.6
    Togo: 0.6

  242. @Thomas

    Chris Christie is, after all, the original Fat Fuck, in the words of Tony Soprano. I only cared about the guy for a year or two. He’s a “conservative”, but only because he’s in New Jersey.

  243. @Art Deco

    I suppose you think John Hinckley Jr. acted alone. Jodie Foster set him up.

  244. @anonymous

    I don’t know how I missed this earlier, but EXCELLENT COMMENT, #285! It’s nice to see another real Constitutionalist among the few of us in the unz comments sections.

    Now, pick a handle. C’mon, man!

  245. @Chrisnonymous

    Speaking of Imagine where’s Imagine-piano-guy been for 2020? Did he visit George Floyd corner or Breonna’s house?

  246. polistra says:
    @Cloudbuster

    Agreed but I don’t know where that quote came from

  247. @anon

    But there are likely genetic factors that give rise to strange phenomena like this:

    Genetic factors my ass. This “phenomenon” is caused by African countries completely lacking the will let alone the ability to test, measure, and otherwise participate in the globalist Covid-19 theater of the absurd. Do you really think there’s a functioning healthcare infrastructure in Mozambique? Do you really think you can trust the accuracy of their publicly reported numbers on anything? Do you really think that the paltry few doctors and nurses working in the African wilds have the time or the inclination to give a rat’s ass about this common cold virus?

    No, of course not. And the fact that Covid-19 is not completely ravaging places like India and Africa, where you have hundreds of millions of desperately poor people crowded together and starving in filth and squalor and shitting in their own streets, is proof positive that the disease is simply not very dangerous.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @anon
  248. @Thomas

    Chris Christie becomes the latest Republican in Trump’s orbit to get sick. He was part of Trump’s debate prep team.

    Trump had debate prep??

  249. @Anonymous

    In the 1960s, if you had heart disease, this Irish doctor was one of the two feuding go-to guys in America. Both worked in Houston, Texas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denton_Cooley

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/rivalry-between-doctors-implant-first-artificial-heart-180971639/

  250. @Art Deco

    The Caribbean doesn’t need a Marshall Plan. They need to improve the skill levels of their populace and remove impediments to doing business (e.g. reducing the quantum of street crime).

    Their biggest business is tourism, which has been devastated this year. Do you think that if they reduce street crime in all-inclusive resorts that this will get the tens of thousands of AA and UA airline staff recently laid off, and all the cruise ships sailing again?

    Is it possible that there is some reason other than street crime that has devastated tourism and caused mass unemployment this year?

    Because the United States is the owner of the world’s main reserve currency, it can just print trillions of dollars to help out unemployed workers and businesses, but the economics of small islands that depend on foreign currency earnings to be able to buy imports–for example cars and motorbikes, olil and gas, which are not manufactured or mined in the Caribbean–is rather different, and they cannot simply print money.

    I would not be surprised if, due to inflation, the US mint soon issues a $1000 silver coin with Trump’s head on it.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  251. @Art Deco

    The Pres. and Gov. Connolly were shot by Lee Harvey Oswald.

    I agree. I think that anyone who doubts this should read Norman Mailer’s Oswalds Tale, which, for me anyway, makes a totally convincing case for Oswald as the assassin, based on his desire to impress the Cuban government enough for them to intercede so that he could get back his Russian residency visa, after he had been kicked out of that country.

    Oswald was a misfit in the US, and then transferred his skills to Russia, where he was also a misfit. That is about all there is to it, but even in the 50’s and early 60’s it was relatively unusual for American misfits to emigrate to Russia, which makes him an interesting case.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  252. @AnotherDad

    But the main reason the virus has hit the US worse than most other 1st world nations is because
    — Americans are fatter than the rest of the developed world; with many, many more obese people
    — we have a large black population, which is both fatter and less healthy and–on average–will not follow direction (significant numbers won’t follow basic criminal laws, they aren’t going to obey public health guidelines)

    We have more third-worlders in residence than we do black people, and they’re a primary reason why we not only don’t measure up to first-world nations, we’re no longer one ourselves.

  253. @Art Deco

    “No one in any ‘deep state’ had a motive to replace one with the other.”

    If anything the Deep State types preferred the Ivy League JFK to the Texan LBJ.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  254. @Jonathan Mason

    Without the tourist dollars pouring in, the Caribbean is nothing but a tropical wilderness. You can’t make any big capital investments there because a hurricane is going to come through every 10 or 20 years and wipe it all out, then you have to start over again. The islands themselves can’t really support anything above a subsistence-level society. There is a reason why, when Columbus landed there, he found nothing but naked savages barbequing one another.

  255. Q-ship says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Hopefully Trump’s physicians don’t pull a Dr. Bliss on him. As a physician, the last thing I want as a patient is “special” treatment.

  256. @astrolabe

    Sometimes, as in a court, it is useful to have someone put forward the best arguments for the contrary point of view because it can crystallise how strong, or otherwise, they are.

    That’s got a name – ‘steel-man’ argumentation (as opposed to ‘straw-man’ – which is much easier).

    Constructing the steel-man argument for an opposing point of view, takes a level of discipline that most people just don’t have, even if they wanted to do it and were cognitively capable of doing so (which most people aren’t).

    Failing (or refusing, or being incapable of) steel-manning key opposing points of view, increases the probability of error in one’s own point of view. It indicates that people link their sense of self-worth to their world-view, which is a bad thing to do because everyone has a flawed worldview (except me lol).

    Straw-man arguments are way more fun, because they make your interlocutor lose their shit.

  257. nebulafox says:
    @David In TN

    Everybody thinks the CIA has always been this far-right culture, but in reality, their political culture tends to lean very much toward Establishment norms, whatever they are at the time. It wasn’t uncommon to see VC flags in Langley at the height of the May 1970 protests while they simultaneously cooperated with right-wing Latin American caudillos.

  258. Sparkon says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    The first shot hit Pres. Kennedy in his throat after passing through the windshield of his limousine. It was fired from a position in front of the motorcade, probably from the grassy knoll south of the triple overpass between Main and Commerce, or opposite the stockade fence area, where another team of snipers was spotted on Nov. 22, 1963.

    The famous photograph Altgens 6 shows the bullet hole in the windshield, President Kennedy clutching at his throat, Jackie holding JFK’s arm, and Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the doorway of the Texas School Book Depository wearing the same distinctive rumpled plaid shirt he had on when arrested later at the Texas theater.

    After studying all the available evidence and building on the groundbreaking work of Sherry Fiester in her book “Enemy of the Truth, Myths, Forensics and the Kennedy Assassination” I believe that the person responsible for two frontal shots which struck President Kennedy was situated on the “South Knoll”. A more accurate description for this spot would be the northern edge of the Terminal Annex Building parking lot facing Dealey Plaza … This study focuses on the first of those two shots, the one Parkland Doctors described as an entry wound in the throat.

    http://www.jfksouthknollgunman.com/index.php/01-2-altgens/

    • Replies: @Matt Buckalew
  259. @PiltdownMan

    Yet I’ve seen little that describes the progress of the disease, variations in symptoms, tentative hypotheses about the wide variation in mortality between populations, and treatments and regimens typically followed.

    You’re searching against the tide, which is hard.

    There has been quite a lot of explanatory work, but it is not going to spontaneously force its way into your social media feed, and it’s going to be deliberately downregulated by social media’s pseudoAI ‘curators’ because it does not help keep eyeballs on screens.

    The causa vera for some differentials are fairly well understood for those who dare ask the question and actually seek an answer.

    Race/ethnicity, for example: dark skin means higher vulnerability to respiratory disease because of much greater rates of VitD deficiency, which specifically downregulates seasonal immunity. (In the UK, dark-skinned people are 4× more likely to die than whites).

    In the US, race is also a predictor of socioeconomic status, which in turn predicts metabolic dysfunction – cardiovascular disease, diabetes, pulmonary disease, insulinaemia and systemic inflammation… all of which generate immune compromise. Both of those things have been understood for over a generation, and are known to matter when it comes to vulnerability to this half-baked weak-ass virus.

    VitD: Cross-sectionally, levels of VitD defiency help explain differential death rates across Europe.

    In a reasonably large study VitD deficiency was associated with a 60% increased risk of infection, and a doubling of risk of hospitalisation.

    Giving COVID patients () a big VitD boost (through calcifediol – 25-hydroxyvitamin D – which boosts serum VitD very quickly because it doesn’t require processing by the liver), results in an reduction in ICU admission from ~50% to 2% (albeit in a small sample, but all patients were in the same region of the CURB65 severity scale).

    As it stands, seasonality is also well-understood (and along with Δtesting, is a sufficient explanator for the ‘second wave’ case-demic).

    The ‘dry tinder‘ effect almost explains all excess deaths this year: a lot of fragile elderly people who did not die in 2019 because of a mild 2019 flu season (e.g., in Sweden) were both more fragile (because a year older) and more vulnerable (because they were in retirement homes). Again: this is a question to which nobody wants an honest answer – but the answer is right there in the data.

    Add up the below-trend deaths in flu-season 2019, and the above-trend deaths in 2020, and you wind up at close to zero for almost every country.

    To give your search engine a chance to pre-empt the pseudoAI’s default (which is to feed you stuff to polarise you), it would be useful to get
     • Off-Guardian,
     • the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, and
     • Malcolm Kendrick
         into your browser history.

    (I know you mustn’t have been a regular reader of those sites, otherwise you would not think there was no evidence about the things you’ve mentioned).

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @Mr McKenna
  260. MBlanc46 says:
    @AnotherDad

    Well said, AD. The Right need to get over their Reagan worship. He was a globalist.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  261. @anon

    Is anyone in Black Africa even over 65? Do they record cause of death before the local witch doctor butchers the body for the local villagers to eat? Not even sure Coronavirus is even on Africa’s radar. They don’t have First World problems. Must be nice!

  262. @anon

    Also, the fat Africans in the US aren’t doing too good with Coronavirus. Not sure if that’s genetics or McDonalds and grape soda.

  263. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    If they had the same death rate as us, the piles of bodies would be very noticeable. They were very noticeable with Ebola which only killed in thousands.

    There have been no reports from Africa like this:

    Bodies pile up on streets in Ecuador as coronavirus spreads
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ecuador-bodies-streets-guayaquil-coronavirus-covid-19/

    Or:

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-california/story/2020-05-01/workers-bury-bodies-of-those-who-died-from-coronavirus-in-tijuana-municipal-cemetery

    With Ebola, there was this:
    Ebola bodies in Sierra Leone pile up

    As for genetics, see:
    The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthals
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
  264. Mr. Anon says:
    @Thomas

    You’re all over the place here with a laundry list of unrelated issues that are off point.

    Not at all. Those are pertinant, relevant, current examples of government hiding behind its purported expertise in order to sell us bad policies.

    On point, as Orwell once said, “some things are true even though they’re in the Daily Telegraph.” After seven months, we can unambiguously say Operation “Just the Flu,” to convince anyone that COVID-19 is not that big a deal, is an unambiguous failure. The public doesn’t believe it and isn’t going to believe it anytime soon.

    The public recently believed – instantly and almost as if by command – that there is a national epidemic of police officers murdering black men. It wasn’t true. It isn’t true. But it was sold to them by the same media megaphone that sold them the idea that COVID is the worst thing since the black death.

    I never said that COVID is “Just the Flu”. I said it is “Just the Asian Flu”. That pandemic, in 1957/58 killed about 0.065% of the U.S. population, which COVID is coming in on now. And COVID may actually be farther away from that, as the death numbers are almost certainly inflated. It was considered especially dangerous for pregnant women and children. Over 40% of the deaths from the Asian Flu were children aged 0-4. COVID predominantly kills the elderly. Excess mortality in the UK due to COVID (or attributed to COVID) is no worse than that due to the bad seasonal flu year of 1999/2000, when scaled for population. And yet this pandemic has been deemed so much worse than anything that has come before that we’re putting the World in an induced coma to deal with it. There is absolutely no sense to it. People believe what they believe about it because they have been systematically lied to about it’s danger.

    He had an alternative, which would have been to get out ahead of the public and take decisive leadership, as I said he should have. But he didn’t and he’s probably going to pay dearly for it.

    You mean he could have lied about it as enthusiastically as the media has done. If, back in March, Trump had enacted a national lockdown and mask-mandate – all the things that liberals now intimate he should have done – all the things that most Democratic governors have done – the media would be comparing him to Pol Pot. Liberals would be issueing Twitter-ukases calling for him to be tried for treason for destroying the Economy. Some of my own family members, who despise Trump and probably think he should be tried for murder for his handling of the pandemic, would now be saying many of the same things I am saying, because – Orange Man Bad.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  265. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sparkon

    Yet, in spite of all those fantastic studies showing that masks don’t work, events at the Great Clips hair salon in Springfield, MO in May, 2020 proved that face masks were 100% effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 from two stylists who were infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and sick with the COVID-19 disease with symptoms, but went into work anyway.

    No one is saying symptomatic sick people shouldn’t wear masks (they also shouldn’t go in to work). Hell, I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t wear a mask if they want to. I’m only saying the government should not compel people to wear one.

    If anything your anecdata only proves that masks work to stop people from hawking up big disease laden droplets. Since the kind of masks the general public are wearing don’t effectively stop aerosols, that indicates that even aerosols exhaled by sick people might not be be so infections. In which case, there isn’t much point for healthy people to wear masks.

    But I won’t go so far as you did, in claiming that the experience of two hair-stylists are the absolute proof justifying the expenditure of millions of dollars and the adoption of dehumanizing policies. I’ll only go so far as to say it’s interesting.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  266. BB753 says:
    @Anon7

    When you give people this sensible advice, people go nuts and call you a covid denialist. People like to be scared by this new virus which will wipe humanity out unless we follow whatever government officials in white coats tells us to do. Wear masks outside at all times: fine. Lock yourself up home for no good reason: great! But don’t start making sense or you’ll blow their minds. People are that stupid.

  267. Franz says:
    @Marty

    So this was one of the early straw men? Kennedy over Ike, who’s not eligible?

    No, only an observation, which I agree with, that younger folk are more suitable heads-of-state than people in their sunset years.

    History indicates age is sometimes okay, but usually associated with monarchies and dictators. Ferdinand Marcos, Queen Elizabeth and all that.

    But it’s only an observation. There’s no “physics of history” as Jerry Pournelle once noted.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  268. utu says:
    @Travis

    “This was not a double blind study.” – LOL, How do you do a double blind study on mask? Do subject need to be blind so they do not know they were a mask when looking into a mirror?

    Most anti-mask studies have flaws in them. For instance you send students in masks during flu season on campus where nobody wears masks. Since mask do not offer 100% protection eventually after several weeks the masked students get infected though later than the control group of not masked students. The masks are not just about individual protection but about reducing R0 and stopping the epidemic. You need to look at masks as anti-epidemic measure. When masking is universal (say 80%) then R0 can be significantly reduced. Furthermore universal masking reduces virus load by reducing injection of virus into the common environment by factor of 3.4 by the infected (1). The lower virus load leads to milder infection and lower infectivity (2). There is a hypothesis that masking might be equivalent to ‘variolation’ (3). This hypothesis may explain why we observe a reduction of IFR in the 2nd wave.

    (1) Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks
    https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003205

    (2)Masks Do More Than Protect Others During COVID-19: Reducing the Inoculum of SARS-CoV-2 to Protect the Wearer (Jul 2020)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7393808/

    (3) Facial Masking for Covid-19 — Potential for “Variolation” as We Await a Vaccine
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    , @Travis
  269. TTSSYF says:
    @Anonymous

    Absolutely I have and do. But it has to be something meaningful; otherwise, it’s like crying wolf when there is none. Masks have not been shown to be any more effective than using a clean tissue or handkerchief to cover your face if you have to cough or sneeze. Besides — it sounds like you’re acknowledging that Fauci was merely virtue signaling, since he wasn’t wearing the mask while seated in the stands with the cameras not on him. What about all of the people sitting with him? Shouldn’t he have continued to model good behavior to those with IQs one to three standard deviations to the left of the mean?

  270. TTSSYF says:
    @anonymous

    That was a highly intelligent response. Somewhat scatological, I’ll grant you, but intelligent and powerful. And it’s not your place to order anyone to “scram.” That’s entirely up to Steve.

  271. Charlie says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Interesting the NIH sites a study showing a large and statistically significant reduction in all-case mortality (Odds Ratio OR 0.27; P = 0.03) and then concludes…

    The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel recommends against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial.

  272. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    Your statement personifies the descent into modern anti-intellectualism. Bottom line? “Fake News” or “the media lies” is a farce, since it leads people like yourself to become patently ill-informed. How? Because all it takes is someone to utter that phrase, and the assumption becomes “true”. A person who desires to be informed delves into the matter by perusing several sources and by astutely investigating one’s own recency or confirmation biases. In this manner, the person is more likely to arrive at a more objective finding of the available facts.

    Unfortunately for you, anything that does not automatically fit into your crafted narrative as “fact” or “truth” becomes “Fake News”. So your mentality is no different than the “Jewish run media conglomerates who control the narrative” since you filter anything that dares to disrupt your world view.

    Stated in an another way, it is virtually impossible to engage in discourse with anyone who bitterly clings on this “Fake News” or “media lies” meme. Any fact brought in as an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time, and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this increasingly leads more people like yourself to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers and confirmation bias.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for you being duped. Consider your statement “and the common illiterate lowbrow plebes”, which is an indication you are part of a group of people who hold a false higher opinion of themselves, including their fellow whites. We as a species have this impulsive cognition–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. Your filters have to fall first. Otherwise, as you clearly demonstrated as part of this “holier than thou” group, you will simply go into shoot the messenger mode. So, when I used WaPO and NYT as sources, there was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in your brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness. It is Hulk Emotion on Steroids.

    Hopefully, you will learn from your own pattern of behavior and make the appropriate changes. It will be a long slog on your part, so I wish you well on your journey to recovery.

  273. Art Deco says:
    @Franz

    Life expectancy for men in 1955 was about 66.7 years, not 62 years. The probability in 1952 that a man of 62 would still be alive 8 years later was about 75%.

    From 1796 to the present, there has hardly been anyone more accomplished or more suitable for the office to stand as a candidate. It’s not that difficult to figure out why people voted for him.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  274. Art Deco says:
    @Franz

    No, only an observation, which I agree with, that younger folk are more suitable heads-of-state than people in their sunset years.

    There is no justification of that view from historical study.

  275. Art Deco says:
    @MBlanc46

    The Right need to get over their Reagan worship. He was a globalist.

    He was nothing of the kind.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  276. Sparkon says:
    @Mr. Anon

    there isn’t much point for healthy people to wear masks.

    In the first place, what guarantee is there that all people will faithfully don masks as soon as they begin to have symptoms?

    In the second place, studies show that many carriers of SARS-CoV-2 are entirely asymptomatic and never develop symptoms, while others are presymptomatic and develop symptoms later, but both categories harbor the virus, and are capable of passing it on to others.

    From the CDC:
    Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic

    By now it should be clear there is a small but noisy claque of never-maskers, who will use any excuse or rationalization to avoid wearing a mask, no matter what. And who would be surprised if some demented lunatics would still refuse to wear a mask even when sick, and willfully, if not gleefully, spread the disease to others?

    The Springfield case demonstrates that sick people will go to work, even during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this case, both stylists and their customers wore masks because it was company policy of Great Clips, and a city ordinance in Springfield, Missouri. Follow-up contact tracing was conducted by the Greene County Health Department in a systematic fashion, which elevates their results above the mere anecdotal, as I see it.

    But however you choose to characterize this case, the evidence should be “good enough” for the rational person to conclude that face masks are an effective barrier against the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, especially where both parties are wearing masks, even where social distancing may not be practicable.

    There are numerous laboratory studies demonstrating the ability of various common household fabrics to filter out droplets and some aerosols:

    https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

    I suggest that wearing a mask while maintaining social distancing — especially around anyone not wearing a mask — should offer reasonable protection against contracting COVID-19.

    Wear a mask, use a little common sense, and you’re good to go.

    Even the gauze masks worn during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic were recognized as being effective in preventing the spread of the disease, leading the Red Cross to proclaim:

    The man, woman, or child who will not wear a mask now is a dangerous slacker.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  277. @anon

    United Kingdom is also at 85, much worse than US.

    San Marino is at 128!

    US only recently caught up with Italy and is on par with Andorra as well.

    • Replies: @anon
  278. @anon

    Addendum to my other post.

    If you look at daily deaths, comparing European countries to the US, what it looks like is that the US “flattened the curve” pretty well:

    We’re dragging it out a little longer than some other countries, but here, as in the rest of the world, the virus is on its way out. Current daily deaths per 100k are at 0.22 and falling.

    As I said in my initial post, I see the difference here as more the difference between a large open federation of states vs. a collection of sovereign nations.

    If you break out the US by states, A) many states look as good or better than Europe, and B) it is very difficult to control population movement within the US.

    Particular lockdown and health policies don’t seem to make all that much of a difference.

    This idea that the US is some huge outlier is wrong.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Clyde
  279. @Achmed E. Newman

    “Fat fuck… spit… hey Achmed, whyncha’ look in the mirror some time you insensitive cocksucker.”

    – Chris Christie

    Heh!

    • LOL: Adam Smith, Clyde
  280. Polynikes says:
    @utu

    Those are studies that propose hypothesis (the third is just a ridiculous design). They have no reliable conclusions and in at least one case was rushed out to support the political decision to force masks on people. They’re more unscientific than most of those studies that show masks do not work.

    There’s a reason the cdc never advised making as a public policy solution prior to this “crisis:” there’s no real evidence supporting their viability.

    • Replies: @utu
  281. @Art Deco

    “He was a no account who worked for no one.”

    Lee Harvey Oswald was an operative in James Jesus Angleton’s false defector program. Oswald worked for Jesus.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  282. Thomas says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I never said that COVID is “Just the Flu”. I said it is “Just the Asian Flu”. That pandemic, in 1957/58 killed about 0.065% of the U.S. population, which COVID is coming in on now.

    Again, the problem with flubroing is that you’re locked into a single point of comparison: the flu and its mortality rate. What should be clear by now is that the biggest problem with COVID isn’t that it’s more lethal compared to a flu outbreak but its longer incubation time, higher transmissivity, consequently higher R0, and the fact that it’s now been allowed to become endemic. A flu outbreak would’ve burned itself out as the weather warmed up. This didn’t, and the opportunity to control or contain it was lost.

    Regardless, though, the public perception is what matters. As I said, in the next four weeks, nobody is going to convince the public to adopt your worldview that it’s all NBD, and they should vote accordingly. If you think it’s all a lie, fine. But if all you have against the media pushing that lie is an incoherent reality-TV celebrity who managed to fall into the presidency and who doesn’t have the personal discipline to invest in, for example, debate prep before he stands out in front of 60 million people, then unfortunately, you’re going to have to work within the assumptions of that lie as though it’s a fact whether you like it or not.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  283. @Sparkon

    Dude just get pussy. For you it will be trash pussy but any pussy will clear up your dorky conspiracy theorizing.

  284. Clyde says:
    @Charlie

    Ivermectin was discovered in 1975 and came into medical use in 1981.[7][8] It is on the World Health Organization’s List of Essential Medicines.[9]

    It is inexpensive and a generic drug

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Charlie
  285. Mr. Anon says:
    @Thomas

    Again, the problem with flubroing is that you’re locked into a single point of comparison: the flu and its mortality rate.

    That is the single most important thing about a disease. It doesn’t matter how rapidly a disease spreads if it is innocuous. This disease is no more deadly than viral pandemics over the last century, none of which caused us to euthanize our economy, trample on civil liberties, define a “new normal”, and generally run around as if our hair was on fire. The only thing different about this pandemic is how it is being responded to. And the response is disastrous – far worse than the disease.

    But if all you have against the media pushing that lie is an incoherent reality-TV celebrity who managed to fall into the presidency and who doesn’t have the personal discipline to invest in, for example, debate prep before he stands out in front of 60 million people, then unfortunately, you’re going to have to work within the assumptions of that lie as though it’s a fact whether you like it or not.

    That isn’t all we have. I don’t realy on Trump for anything. Who would rely on Trump for anything at this point? There are lots of doctors and scientists – many quite well known and respected – who are saying exactly what I am saying. And – No – I am not going to “work within the assumptions of that lie”. Things that are lies are lies, and should be treated as such.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  286. Mr. Anon says:
    @Kratoklastes

    VitD: Cross-sectionally, levels of VitD defiency help explain differential death rates across Europe.

    And effectively locking people up in thier homes, as Spain, Italy, and the UK did, and as Spain is doing again, sure isn’t going to help with that. In Australia, people have been arrested simply for being out-of-doors on the roof of their apartment buildings.

  287. vinteuil says:
    @Art Deco

    He [Reagan] was nothing of the kind [i.e., a globalist].

    Right. Things were different back in the 1980’s. Globalism, as we know and hate it today, was in its infancy, while its grandparents, Stalinism & Maoism, were still in the drivers seat in two of the world’s great powers.

    In the course of fighting the good fight against Stalinism & Maoism, Reagan signed off on some stuff that we can now see fed into what we now call globalism.

    Hindsight is better than foresight.

  288. If the president does die of this illness, maybe the USA will re-think it’s recent tendency to elect 70-year-old men to office.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  289. @Clyde

    The first few days of the first clinical trial in the jungle of ivermectin for the horrible tropical disease of river blindness might be the most miraculous-seeming in the history of medical research.

  290. Charlie says:
    @Clyde

    And you can buy it at your local farm supply though the NIH warns against it.

    I imagine most of these controversial Covid therapeutics are available OTC in our neighbor to the south. Anyone know what happens if you get caught with a vial of HCQ at the Tiajuana border?

    • Replies: @Clyde
  291. @Cloudbuster

    Border controls can do a lot of good, but the U.S. has very little infrastructure for controlling interstate traffic — California’s agricultural inspection checkpoint on I-10 at the border with Arizona is the only piece of infrastructure I can think of.

  292. @Adam Smith

    Yeah, dos fuckin’ eye-talian guys. Every time I’d watch the Sopranos and they’d have dinner, I’d get jealous. That is my favorite food, and Carmella makes a mean chicken catch-a-tory, almost as good as Chef Boyardee himself.

    (I’da splurged for a king-size Heath Bar myself. It’s just the taxpayers. Dey got plentya dough.)

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  293. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cloudbuster

    Per https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/, U.K.is 62. Where did you find 85?

    San Marino and Andorra are municipalities and can be ignored.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  294. utu says:
    @Polynikes

    There’s a reason the cdc never advised making as a public policy solution prior to this “crisis:” …

    Yes, the reason might be more complex and less scientific than we think. What if the universal masking was rejected as a viable policy by CDC and WHO because they were behind the policy of universal vaccination? The ties between the two organizations and the Big Pharma should no be overlooked. The CDC did not want to confuse people and give them another reason or excuse to avoid vaccination so CDC’s standard position was to de-emphasize the effectiveness of universal masking. This approach would be understandable for seasonal flu for which vaccines exist but the CDC carried this anti universal masking policy on the Covid-19 in its early stage when there was no vaccine nor treatment in sight. Taiwan and Japan did not make this mistake.

    But on September 16 CDC changed its tune:

    CDC director Robert Redfield said face masks may be more effective than a vaccine in preventing individual coronavirus infections
    https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-masks-better-than-vaccines-at-stopping-coronavirus-2020-9

    It is ironic that among the opponents to the universal masking there are many anti-vaxxers who now happen to be on the same side with the pro-vaccination Big Pharma.

  295. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sparkon

    In the first place, what guarantee is there that all people will faithfully don masks as soon as they begin to have symptoms?

    What guarantee is there that people wear their masks properly? Or change them or wash them regularly?

    In the second place, studies show that many carriers of SARS-CoV-2 are entirely asymptomatic and never develop symptoms, while others are presymptomatic and develop symptoms later, but both categories harbor the virus, and are capable of passing it on to others.

    From the CDC:
    Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic

    According to the abstract, this study – all based on reports from China – “supports the possibility” of asympotomatic transmission.

    Yeah – concrete evidence if ever there was any.

    By now it should be clear there is a small but noisy claque of never-maskers, who will use any excuse or rationalization to avoid wearing a mask, no matter what. And who would be surprised if some demented lunatics would still refuse to wear a mask even when sick, and willfully, if not gleefully, spread the disease to others?

    You know what? I’m sick of f**kwads like you throwing around terms like “anti-maskers”. I’ve got a term for people like you: anti-human. You people are anti-human.

    But however you choose to characterize this case, the evidence should be “good enough” for the rational person to conclude that face masks are an effective barrier against the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, especially where both parties are wearing masks, even where social distancing may not be practicable.

    I characterize it as “one hair salon”. Not exactly tremendous statistics.

    There are numerous laboratory studies demonstrating the ability of various common household fabrics to filter out droplets and some aerosols:

    https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

    You can find studies that purport to show the opposite – even on the CDC’s own website.

    In any event, given how politically contentious all the issues surrounding this virus are, I’m not especially interested in studies conducted after Jan. 1, 2020. Or are you one of these people who think that studies are really done in a completely disinterested way, independent of the desires of those doing them?

    I suggest that wearing a mask while maintaining social distancing — especially around anyone not wearing a mask — should offer reasonable protection against contracting COVID-19.

    You and your ilk are most welcome to stay the Hell away from me.

    Even the gauze masks worn during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic were recognized as being effective in preventing the spread of the disease, leading the Red Cross to proclaim:

    And is there any evidence that they were right? Gauze? Those were probably entirely useless.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  296. Thomas says:
    @Mr. Anon

    That is the single most important thing about a disease. It doesn’t matter how rapidly a disease spreads if it is innocuous.

    I dispute that mortality rate is the single most important thing about a disease, but even if it were, it’s far from the only important thing. A 100% fatal disease that spread poorly would be little bigger a problem than a rapidly-spreading innocuous disease. The problem is that COVID spreads widely and tenaciously, and is far from innocuous.

    That isn’t all we have. I don’t realy on Trump for anything. Who would rely on Trump for anything at this point? There are lots of doctors and scientists – many quite well known and respected – who are saying exactly what I am saying.

    You can personally do whatever you like. My central point is that this pandemic is having a significant effect on the election, at this point very likely a decisive one. Whatever you may believe are the medical or epidemiological facts of the disease, the political effect is an objective and unavoidable fact.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  297. Clyde says:
    @Charlie

    You are right. Ivermectin is in veterinary supplies. Ebay sellers are calling it a dewormer which is amusing
    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=INVERMECTIN&_sacat=0

    There is another dewormer/Panacur that is a folk cure for cancer. Combined with curcumin extract which is turmeric extract — https://www.mycancerstory.rocks/ —- “Joe Tippens Cures Terminal Cancer with Pet Medicine” —video look it up.

    Quercetin is easy to find and use as an HCQ substitute. It carries zinc across and into Covid virus

  298. Clyde says:
    @Cloudbuster

    Infections/Hospitalizations/Deaths —
    All three figures are fuzzy but daily deaths from Covid is the best measure for how any nation or state in America is doing. Daily new infections is just about utterly worthless bullshit and used to scare populations. More and inaccurate testing will get you more Covid infections and so called cases. The daily new deaths graph lags by 2-3 weeks, so they say.
    Daily deaths are way down in US and Europe compared to April-May peaks.

    Worldometer for Covid has the USA listed at number ten for Covid deaths per million population
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    • Replies: @anon
  299. Charlie says:

    Daily regimen..

    1000 mg quercetin
    50 mg zinc + 11 mg zinc lozenges now and then
    500-1000 mg vit C
    2000-3000 IU vit D

    I’ve been out and about and have certainly been exposed. Small inoculum and a healthy terrain equals no disease (do far).

  300. utu says:
    @utu

    From The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

    More about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine (Updated 30 August 2020)
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine/

    The hypothesis that the 4-aminoquinolines chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine may be beneficial in the treatment of COVID-19 is a weak one, based on poor mechanistic reasoning and inconsistent results of studies in vitro, in laboratory animals, and in humans.

  301. Mr. Anon says:
    @Thomas

    I dispute that mortality rate is the single most important thing about a disease…………

    Dispute away. And, yet, you are wrong.

    You can personally do whatever you like. My central point is that this pandemic is having a significant effect on the election, at this point very likely a decisive one. Whatever you may believe are the medical or epidemiological facts of the disease, the political effect is an objective and unavoidable fact.

    You are quite obviously right about that. And it is down to the media, and officialdom, having falsely scared the bejesus out of a large fraction of the electorate. I can not change the fact that they are scared witless. But I can – and do – rightly deny that they have any good reason to be so.

  302. Sparkon says:
    @Mr. Anon

    all based on reports from China –

    Wrong. See footnotes 5, 6, 18, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 30, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 40

    “You know what? I’m sick of f**kwads like you throwing around terms like “anti-maskers”. I’ve got a term for people like you: anti-human. You people are anti-human.”

    The pot calls the teacup black. Any sickness you have from any (bleep)-wads or bleep-words is entirely your own responsibility, as extravagant use of four-letter words in name calling is a hallmark of the low-brow set, who also suffer from poor reading comprehension.

    You could be carrying the disease and not even know it. It seems the anti-maskers have no understanding of The Golden Rule, along with no common courtesy, and no common sense.

    Meanwhile, evidence continues to grow that face coverings offer good protection against SARS-CoV-2:

    Masks May Reduce Viral Dose, Some Experts Say

    People wearing face coverings will take in fewer coronavirus particles, evidence suggests, making disease less severe.

    This blurb on the effectiveness of masks is from the University of California at San Francisco:

    Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

    There was an Anti-Mask League formed in San Francisco during the Spanish Flu pandemic. During the current COVID-19 pandemic, pushback against the anti-maskers has been mounting:

    Fed up with anti-maskers, mask advocates are demanding mandates, fines — and common courtesy.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  303. @anon

    My UK number is from here:

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom?view=total-deaths&tab=compare

    My very quick math using a UK population of ~67 million says the 85 checks out.

    And actually both Andorra and San Marino are sovereign states. If we can talk about Singapore, we can talk about them.

  304. Travis says:
    @utu

    https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses

    None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask ⁄ respirator use and protection against influenza infection.

    Meta-analysis indicated statistically significant superiority of N95 respirators over medical masks against laboratory-confirmed upper respiratory tract bacterial colonization, but not laboratory-confirmed influenza or other viral infections. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

  305. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Clyde

    death per million rankings now:

    Peru 989

    Belgium 867

    Bolivia 692
    Brazil 688
    Spain 686
    Chile 680
    Ecuador 659
    USA 648

    Latin America is hurting the most. Africa, Asia and Australia the least.

  306. Art Deco says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    In your imagination only.

    The real Lee Harvey Oswald was notable at age 24 for having failed at everything he ever did, for being adept at getting fired from his job, and for his bizarrely inflated self-image. He also carried a grudge against Gov. John Connolly (erstwhile Secretary of the Navy), whom he fancied had been responsible for him getting a dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps.

  307. Art Deco says:
    @Dave from Oz

    Why should we? Five of the last fifteen Presidents have lived past 90, two others have lived past 80, and three of those currently alive have > 25% chance of living past 90 and > 75% chance of living past 80. In regard to the others, one didn’t die of natural causes, three were heavy cigarette smokers much of their life, and one is still alive at age 59.

  308. Anonymous[492] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franz

    The irony here is that the US came closest to nuclear war under Kennedy than at any other time in the Cold War.

  309. Anonymous[492] • Disclaimer says:
    @James O'Meara

    I’ve encountered Christians who regard ‘science’ as just another rival religion, with its own assembly of priests, prophets, holy books, and the rest.

  310. @Corvinus

    Corvinus wrote:

    “No one wears a mask all the time”.

    Yes, we do.

    When you sleep? When you are in the shower? When you and your wife are…? (Okay, scratch that: I’m sure you and your wife don’t do that, and she probably would want you to wear a mask if you did!)

  311. Anonymous[243] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Flu is a cold country disease. This has to do with the mechanics of transmission. For infection to take place, water vapor with virus particles suspended has to travel from the lungs of the infected to the lungs of the uninfected. In hot weather, water vapor evaporates too quickly for this to happen. This is why African countries are not affected.

    And there is no contradiction between this and the fact that blacks in the US are being harder hit than whites. Because flu not a problem historically in Africa, blacks have little resistance to it and succumb quickly when infected.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  312. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    Because flu not a problem historically in Africa, blacks have little resistance to it and succumb quickly when infected.

    In re the typical black man in the United States, you have to walk back 7 or 8 generations before you arrive at a point where half of his pedigree was born in west Africa. They have what resistance there is to be had living in North America.

  313. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sparkon

    Hysterical ninnies like you should stop presuming to tell adults how to run their lives.

    So your piss-your-pants frightened over this epidemic? Fine. Stay at home, sit in your closet, and put a bag over your head. We’ll let you know when it’s safe to emerge, you wiener.

  314. @Kratoklastes

    Latecomer to your comment, just want to add my thanks.

    We can (and do) argue the specifics to death,
    but that’s a good sound overview imho.

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