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https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574849994062020609

Radek Sikorski was the Foreign Minister of Poland from 2007-2014 in Donald Tusk’s center-right government. His wife is journalist Anne Applebaum.

He also retweeted:

Sikorski attributing it to the U.S. could be disinformation to cover up a Polish operation? Of course, speculation rapidly gets lost in a wilderness of mirrors.

Personally, I don’t know who did it nor why. It is interesting comparing coverage in the Washington Post and New York Times. The Washington Beltway’s hometown paper writes:

European leaders blame Russian ‘sabotage’ after Nord Stream explosions

By Meg Kelly, Michael Birnbaum and Mary Ilyushina
Updated September 27, 2022 at 4:53 p.m. EDT|Published September 27, 2022 at 6:37 a.m. EDT

BERLIN — European leaders said Tuesday they believed dual explosions that damaged pipelines built to carry Russian natural gas to Europe were deliberate, and some officials blamed the Kremlin, suggesting the blasts were intended as a threat to the continent.

In contrast, the New York Times was more cautious in how it structured its headline and first two paragraphs:

Pipeline Breaks Look Deliberate, Europeans Say, Exposing Vulnerability

The leaks in the Nord Stream under the Baltic Sea heightened fears of shortages because of the clash with Russia, and showed how vital infrastructure could be at risk.

By Melissa Eddy
Sept. 27, 2022
Updated 7:22 p.m. ET

BERLIN — Explosions under the Baltic Sea and the rupture of major natural gas pipelines from Russia to Germany appeared to be a deliberate attack, officials across Europe said on Tuesday, deepening uncertainty about European energy security amid soaring prices and fears of running short of fuel over the winter.

Three separate leaks erupted from the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines, which were already caught up in the conflict over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, sending swirling streams of methane to the surface of waters off Denmark and Sweden. Top Polish and Ukrainian leaders blamed Moscow, while Russian state media suggested U.S. or Ukrainian involvement.

My long term impression is that’s a general pattern: the Post will usually play up the American deep state’s angle. The Times will be respectful of the deep state’s spin, but not quite as beholden to the home team.

 
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  1. His wife is journalist Anne Applebaum.

    No further explanation necessary

    • Thanks: Angharad, JimDandy
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Pop Warner

    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don't think so!

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Prester John

    , @BosTex
    @Pop Warner

    I googled Anne Applebaum and I feel bad for the guy.

    Jack: as far her being a diver: no way, the nose wouldn’t fit in the mask.

    (Not making an anti-Semitic observation: the broad has a big nose).

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy

    , @Pilfgrable
    @Pop Warner

    Until this happened (The blabbing by the Polish politico), I thought that Applebaum was just a historian. Now I just tossed a book of hers about Eastern Europe into the recycling bin. Life's too short to read neocon warmongers.

  2. It sure does…

    • Replies: @BG Jack D. Ripper
    @usNthem

    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Diversity Heretic

    , @JimDandy
    @usNthem

    I'm actually very glad to hear it sounds concerning.

  3. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    The world’s nations ate learning that its best to have as little to do with America as possible. We are dirty and we cheat.

    • Agree: Inverness
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anon

    Sources? Russian Telegram? Are these the same American ships that sank the Moskva? Remember, nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @Richard B

    , @Ron Unz
    @Anon


    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?
     
    I'd say we've begun mistreating our NATO "allies" even worse than the USSR did the members of the Warsaw Pact. Our total media control allows us to do this, but at some point it may stop working.

    It may be a very difficult winter for many Europeans.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @clifford brown, @Paul Rise

    , @JimDandy
    @Anon

    I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now.


    Well, in fairness, we are a vassal state.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Anon


    I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now.
     
    We have been for awhile. We're not the only ones. But our hands are far from clean.
  4. The US government is a threat to of all humanity. Literal terrorists.

    • Thanks: Paul Jolliffe
    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @clifford brown

    At the Common Ground Fair, Veteran's for Peace were giving out bumper stickers "US Militarism Fuels Climate Crisis."

    I took one, cut out the word "Climate" and stuck the rest of it on my guitar case.

  5. Sabotage for sure but who did it? It’s arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Trelane


    Cui bono?
     
    The culprit obviously wanted to block Germany from doing any gas for peace deal that might alter its current policy of industrial suicide. UK, Poland, or Ukraine wouldn't act without the Big Dog's approval. The U.S. is suspect #1.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Trelane

    Trelane asked:


    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It’s arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?
     
    Standard detective analysis: motive, method, opportunity.

    US and Ukraine had motive. It's not clear Ukraine had method -- Ukraine doe snot border on the Baltic and has no navy to speak of.

    One other key point: if Ukraine did it, why not take responsibility? Why not brag about it?

    But it's easy to see why the US would not take responsibility -- this is a clear-cut act of war.

    I don't know who did it. But I do know where the evidence points.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    , @Colin Wright
    @Trelane

    'Cui bono?'

    No one. Biden's handlers may imagine they will -- but they won't either, not in the end.

  6. Either way this is more than concerning. This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil. There is no scenario in which they are not, no matter whose side you are on and even if you are not on a side.

    • Agree: AKAHorace, duncsbaby
    • Replies: @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.
     
    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn't what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @PhysicistDave, @SonarBaltic, @Mr. Anon

  7. I wonder how long it will take before the “Poland started WW2 brigade shows up.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    @Anon

    Po' lil Germany dindu nuffin.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin

  8. If somebody would seriously disable the Norwegian->Germany pipelines, it’s all over for Europe.

    NATO may have to dust-off the old WWI strategy of maintaining a blockade athwart the sea of Jutland to keep malicious Russians bottled up in the Baltic, that is, if the Russians are responsible for this incident and inclined to do more damage.

  9. Let’s establish an odds line, that will coalesce around whom the consensus will name the culprit (not necessarily THE culprit). I predict the consensus will blame it on the Russians. But Russians are clumsy with everything, could they have pulled this off without leaving definite evidence that it was they that did it? Something to consider, though, back in the 1980s the Swedes were always getting worked up over alleged trespass of Russian submarines on their territorial waters, but nothing was ever proved that Russia was trespassing. Could Russians be much better at submarining than we have all anticipated?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Daniel H

    They would truly be the masters of submarining to submarine there, it's too shallow. And right under US ships? (When they could just turn the damn thing off?) But I agree that the lyingpress filth will soon confidently declare it could only have been evil Russians.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    , @Pericles
    @Daniel H


    back in the 1980s the Swedes were always getting worked up over alleged trespass of Russian submarines on their territorial waters, but nothing was ever proved that Russia was trespassing.

     

    Possibly excepting Russian sub U137 running aground near a Swedish naval base in Karlskrona (1981).
  10. @Anon
    Hi from Tennessee. I'm afraid our nation are the new "bad guys" globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    The world's nations ate learning that its best to have as little to do with America as possible. We are dirty and we cheat.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Unz, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon

    Sources? Russian Telegram? Are these the same American ships that sank the Moskva? Remember, nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.

    • Troll: Polistra, Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan
    @Jack D

    OT,but the Jews are mad because Jeffrey Dahmers Netflix movie was tagged " LGBQT+."😮

    , @Richard B
    @Jack D


    nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.
     

    Nothing happens unless Israel/USA (same thing) denies it.
     
    FIFY

    This has Mossad/CIA (same thing) written all over it.

  11. If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.

    • Disagree: Inverness
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.
     
    That's my take. If the US did it, it seems stupid.

    I get that without Nordstream the Russians can only continue to export to the West through the pipeline through Ukraine--ergo they must keep supplying Ukraine.

    But the downside--pretty huge--is if there is not enough gas--even if the Russians simply decide to cut it off--the freezing Germans will be blaming the US.

    ~~~

    What's ridiculous here is the dependency. You don't let yourself be dependent upon one particular potentially hostile foreign country for something as basic as energy. If you don't have adequate resources yourself, then be dependent on a fungible commodity--i.e. oil--that you can get from multiple sources.

    But also get you head out of your ass and work to mitigate your dependency. But instead of building out a nuclear infrastructure like the French, the Germans are shutting their nukes down. They aren't "green".

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring, but the US, under the Wall Street--"it's just a big marketplace!"--regime has done this too. GM not being about to build pickups with chips from China (or maybe it's Taiwan, don't know). But producing something as basic as a working truck being upended by nonsense going on in the China-sphere. C'mon.

    Fortunately, we're just in a better situation energy wise.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Mr. Anon, @Cagey Beast

    , @AndrewR
    @Cagey Beast

    Hostility towards the US is nothing new in Germany. I take no joy in predicting that I don't see Germans throwing off their shackles no matter how hard the whippings get.

  12. I heard Shaun Thompson (WIND-AM @ 560) blame the Russkies today for blowing up the pipeline today, so we can have fun from any direction!

    https://560theanswer.com/radioshow/shaun-thompson

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Joe Stalin

    Sean Thompson the purported half Italian half Norwegian who is almost certainly half Italian and half Irish.

  13. This was an act of barbarism no doubt perpetrated by the Collective West in order to bring Germany to its knees so that it would have no choice but to adopt a war footing. Russia always stood ready to resume gas flows through Nordstream 1 and 2 whenever the sanctions were lifted. Whoever did this was opposed to de-escalation, and it was certainly not Russia. Russia had no reason to bomb the pipelines that it could have simply shut off at any time had it wanted the gas to stop.

    And the monstrous thing about this is that the innocent of Europe will suffer. When shortages, skyrocketing energy bills, hunger, and cold start biting into Europe this winter, it will be the most vulnerable who suffer the worst. The poor, the old, children, the handicapped, the sick. Can you imagine European babies starving and freezing in the dark? That’s what the bastards who did this have destined these innocent souls to.

    We are all Russians today. Every good man, everywhere in the world, no matter his nation or cause, now knows that Russia is leading the effort against the barbarians in the West who want only to kill, steal, and destroy. It is now Russia, and those who stand with her, who are the last best hope of humanity.

    Steve Sailer, quite characteristically, is firmly on the side of the Real Nation!™ of Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Yes - as you point out, it makes no sense for Moscow to have committed this act of sabotage since they could always stop the flow at any time anyway, and in fact we all know they very much wanted to resume use of the pipeline when the sanctions are rolled back (I'm just kidding, we all know these sanctions are NEVER being lifted in our lifetimes, whether that's a few more months or 35 years).

    Nor is ruining the pipeline in the interest of the European nations which would like, someday, to see relative normality resume so that at least some of their energy could be supplied from Russia again.

    This does though clearly serve the interests of the uni-party warmongers in Washington by removing the possibility of Germany 'losing its nerve' over the winter, or sometime next year, and beginning to counsel for de-escalation and some kind of pathway for everyone to put their guns back in their holsters. It makes me think of how Cortes, I believe, burned his ships once his men landed in the New World, cutting off their alternative course of simply going back home and forcing them to commit to his agenda of exploring the dangerous interior.

    I'm glad that Steve is apparently concerned at, and taking seriously, the extreme aggression, recklessness and illegality of what it seems quite like the US just did.

  14. This is an attack by a NATO country on Russian infrastructure. This is a major escalation. Some sort of Russian response is inevitable.

    The main victim is Germany. Can they submit to this aggression?

    • Replies: @216
    @bob sykes

    Germans could start fracking, they could reopen their nuclear plants.

    But they won't, they will just morally preen over Redstan like they always do.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  15. Who Will Rid Me of This Meddlesome Pipeline?
    By JIM GERAGHTY
    September 27, 2022 9:28 AM

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/who-will-rid-me-of-this-meddlesome-pipeline/

  16. Sikorski attributing it to the U.S. could be disinformation to cover up a Polish operation?

    More likely just stereotypical Polish stupidity and Sikorski blabbering when he’s not supposed to.

    • Agree: Passing By
  17. The booklet containing the great Polish diplomats is shorter than the one of Jewish sports legends in Airplane!.

    • Replies: @Dube
    @Che Blutarsky

    The booklet containing the great Polish diplomats is short....

    Your list? Don't skip the 15th century, certainly including the author of The Accomplished Senator.

  18. No Steve, for the love of all that is holy, not another Ukraine related post .

    “Putin Fanbois” “Hasbara Trolls” “Ukronazi Plants”.

    Arghhhhhhhhhhh!

    Please add a post: Russia – Ukraine: who DGAF?

    • Replies: @kr0827
    @BosTex

    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

    Replies: @BosTex

  19. @Jack D
    @Anon

    Sources? Russian Telegram? Are these the same American ships that sank the Moskva? Remember, nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @Richard B

    OT,but the Jews are mad because Jeffrey Dahmers Netflix movie was tagged ” LGBQT+.”😮

  20. The US Navy ran an “exercise” a few months ago in the vicinity of the Nordstream explosions that involved explosive ordinance units and underwater drones and mines:

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Anonymous

    in June 2022, the US and NATO carried out an extensive "training" exercise near Bornholm Island in exact area where Nordstream was sabotaged. One of the major "achievements" of the operation was the collection of over 200 hours of undersea data - data which included precision mapping of the exact location of the Nordstream pipelines.

    Four weeks ago the UK trained Ukrainian specialists in the use of underwater drones. The Royal Navy article on the training operation (joint with US Navy) stated that the UK gave "six of the underwater drones to Ukraine" https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2022/august/26/20220826-royal-navy-divers-train-ukrainians-to-hunt-for-mines-with-underwater-drones

    Dozens of Ukrainian Navy personnel will be taught to use the underwater drones over the coming months, with the first tranche having already begun their training. Captain Ben Vickery Royal Navy, Captain of Royal Navy Diving and Mine Warfare, said he was struck by the passion and commitment with which the Ukrainians had thrown themselves into learning how to operate the underwater drones. “These incredible, motivated and very professional sailors have thrown themselves into the task and have made incredible progress gaining an excellent level of proficiency."

    the UK drones given to Ukraine can deploy up to 100 meters. This is deep enough to hit the Nordstream pipelines which are said to be about 100 meters deep (and a little shallower near Bornholm Island)

  21. Radek Sikorski MEP Retweeted:

    • Agree: Trelane
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    , @aNewBanner
    @MEH 0910

    I feel like if this is a operation by USG, then there should have been news stories on these pipelines in the recent past to prepare the general public, with these news stories provided by reputable sources. (The president doesn’t count.)

  22. @Pop Warner

    His wife is journalist Anne Applebaum.
     
    No further explanation necessary

    Replies: @Jack D, @BosTex, @Pilfgrable

    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don’t think so!

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don’t think so!
     
    Alternative hypothesis: One of our SEAL teams finally got to put its BUDs training to use with some actual underwater demolition.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Brutusale

    , @Prester John
    @Jack D

    She wrote "Red Famine", a detailed account of the Holodomor, so when it comes to the Ukraine you know whose side she is on. It has to be said though that in the process she called out the NYT and the feckless Walter Duranty.

  23. It stretches, to near the breaking point, the meaning of the word “journalist” to include Anne Applebaum within its scope. She is a warmonger – one who knows that the pen is mightier than the sword.

    • Agree: Father Coughlin
  24. @MEH 0910
    Radek Sikorski MEP Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

    Replies: @Jack D, @aNewBanner

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn’t even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @epebble
    @Jack D

    If this was a U.S. operation (I am not convinced), Biden would be only peripherally involved.

    My guess is this is a dissident group within Russia opposed to war. It could even be some terrorists who want to throw a wrench into the works and see how the machine breaks.

    , @MEH 0910
    @Jack D

    Biden Completely Lost on Stage During Global Fund Speech
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0GknlycPA
    Sep 22, 2022


    YIKES... President Joe Biden seemed to be wandering around on stage AGAIN after wrapping up his speech at the Global Fund on Wednesday.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Jack D

    lol. u mad, fed?

    , @Yancey Ward
    @Jack D

    Damn Russians even clever enough to get Biden to say this in public so they could record it and load it to Youtube 6 months ago!

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Jack D


    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn’t even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.
     
    He's told what to say by Actual Presidents Ron Klain and Tony Blinken and Jill Biden, with guidance from Victoria Nuland and the Kagan clan.

    He doesn't need to remember what he said months afterward.

    But we do.

    , @duncsbaby
    @Jack D

    Not just Russians, but Americans who don't want to be led into World War III by the malignant Uncle J0e and his Democrat puppeteers.

  25. @usNthem
    It sure does…

    Replies: @BG Jack D. Ripper, @JimDandy

    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    @BG Jack D. Ripper


    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.
     
    But maybe not necessarily far from the strategic missile silos. They are all located in the booniest of boondocks and are certainly the prime target of a Russian nuclear response.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    @BG Jack D. Ripper

    You might want to review some of the literature regarding the effects of radioactive fallout.

  26. The Polacks have been a nightmare throughout this whole thing, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they did it.

    Speaking of nightmares, there’s alleged peacenik Roger Waters, who just had one of his dreadful performances cancelled by Poland. Waters may try to rewrite history, but during his Us + Them tour in 2017, he frequently ran memes on stage of Putin performing sex on Trump. Is this consistent with a desire for peace? Is Waters doing “culture work” for MI6 and the Integrity Initiative? I don’t think there’s any doubt.

    When the zeitgeist declared it cool to depict Putin as a monster, long before 2/22, Waters was 100% on board and contributed to it. Now he’s mortified that we’re on the precipice of a nuclear war that he helped instigate.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Bragadocious


    Is Waters doing “culture work” for MI6 and the Integrity Initiative?
     
    I wouldn't be surprised. British soap operas are being used by the state as vessels for propaganda.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joaed2Yn87o

    Replies: @Father Coughlin

  27. @Trelane
    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It's arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Colin Wright

    Cui bono?

    The culprit obviously wanted to block Germany from doing any gas for peace deal that might alter its current policy of industrial suicide. UK, Poland, or Ukraine wouldn’t act without the Big Dog’s approval. The U.S. is suspect #1.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Hypnotoad666

    It's popular to talk about the UK as a junior partner, if not a vassal state, of the US, but there is literally no difference between them in terms of foreign policy. Really, all the Anglo countries can be thought of as one single country, with each subunit having some domestic autonomy.

    The US of course is "first among equals," given that it makes up the majority of the Anglosphere in every sense except land mass, but it doesn't make sense to say the UK would need US approval for this any more than my right hand needs my left hand's approval to do anything.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Whereismyhandle

  28. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    If this was a U.S. operation (I am not convinced), Biden would be only peripherally involved.

    My guess is this is a dissident group within Russia opposed to war. It could even be some terrorists who want to throw a wrench into the works and see how the machine breaks.

  29. @Jack D
    @Pop Warner

    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don't think so!

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Prester John

    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don’t think so!

    Alternative hypothesis: One of our SEAL teams finally got to put its BUDs training to use with some actual underwater demolition.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Hypnotoad666

    But by the order of whom? Neocons, of course.

    Your cattle have pleased their masters well.

    I have to admit it. Gentile whites don't deserve your respect. It's your world - for now.

    , @Brutusale
    @Hypnotoad666

    This was a perfect situation for the Special Boat Service, a capable group that flies under the radar when compared to the publicity-hound SEALS.

  30. • Replies: @Workforlivn
    @Anonymous

    https://www.submarinecablemap.com/
    Glass houses

  31. Some links:

    From February 2022: https://www.unz.com/mhudson/americas-real-adversaries-are-its-european-and-other-allies/

    I have no idea how credible this account is but I’ll post it anyway: https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1574758898086694912

    Three little pigs: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572340065506033664

    Blaming this on Russia feels right down there with “OMG Assad gassed his own people!” Deep state gonna deep state I guess.

    Some more that have been making the rounds in case you missed them:
    https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/patrick-goodenough/state-dept-if-russia-invades-ukraine-one-way-or-another
    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490792461979078662

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Matthew Kelly

    This, Russia had no motive, they want people to buy Russian gas through the Russian pipeline, it was recently stopped not by Putin but by Scholz, plus if Russia did want something like this, they had only to push a button and switch the line off from their end, no need to deploy needed men to blow stuff up where it could alarm Western Europeans.

  32. This Seems Concerning

    Concerning what?

    • Agree: BosTex
    • LOL: Inverness
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Polistra



    This Seems Concerning
     
    Concerning what?
     
    Concerning whom?
  33. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    Biden Completely Lost on Stage During Global Fund Speech

    Sep 22, 2022

    YIKES… President Joe Biden seemed to be wandering around on stage AGAIN after wrapping up his speech at the Global Fund on Wednesday.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/charliespiering/status/1575137731470032897

  34. @Buzz Mohawk
    Either way this is more than concerning. This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil. There is no scenario in which they are not, no matter whose side you are on and even if you are not on a side.

    Replies: @clifford brown, @Reg Cæsar

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin’s draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th “Attacks”.

    • Thanks: Abe, Inverness
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @clifford brown

    My Google News feed had literally NOTHING on this story (but it had something on Tom Brady and Gisselle getting along better). This coordinated MSM silence speaks volumes of course about who did this.

    Luckily, our man Tucker was all over it. One highlight at about the 5:45 mark is Victoria Nuland on tape during congressional testimony pledging that "one way or another" the U.S. would put an end to Nordstream II.

    https://youtu.be/-Zeadc4pQAw

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @James Braxton
    @clifford brown

    No court of law has found fraud in the Donbas elections, therefore this sort of election denialism by NPR and their ilk should be flagged as misinformation.

    Replies: @hhsiii

    , @tyrone
    @clifford brown


    not covering the explosion
     
    .......a bit of a tell ,wouldn't you say.
    , @Tex
    @clifford brown


    MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th “Attacks”.
     
    So they've gone from riots to attacks? Give it a few months and it'll be the "January 6th Massacre."

    The narrative is self-reinforcing. When the neocons get their war with Russia, they left will invoke January 6th as the reason they must clamp down on Trump Extremists (the 20s version of 5th Columnists). Enemy without, enemy within.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @clifford brown

    Thank you for your reply. It captures the spirit of my comment perfectly. I feel the same way: This reminds of the lead-ups to WWI and I think to WWII and others as well.

    I am not a good student of history, so here I am careful not to claim too much, but it seems to me that this event is the kind of thing that has lead to bigger, "unnecessary" wars in the past -- and I wonder if that was the actual intent on the part of the perpetrators.

    Whoever they are, they don't care about the consequences, or they are too stupid or crazy or deluded by their own philosophy to envision what those consequences might be. This is a terrible thing.

    As far as the media coverage goes in America, that is not surprising and may even be a clue...

  35. @Hypnotoad666
    @Trelane


    Cui bono?
     
    The culprit obviously wanted to block Germany from doing any gas for peace deal that might alter its current policy of industrial suicide. UK, Poland, or Ukraine wouldn't act without the Big Dog's approval. The U.S. is suspect #1.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    It’s popular to talk about the UK as a junior partner, if not a vassal state, of the US, but there is literally no difference between them in terms of foreign policy. Really, all the Anglo countries can be thought of as one single country, with each subunit having some domestic autonomy.

    The US of course is “first among equals,” given that it makes up the majority of the Anglosphere in every sense except land mass, but it doesn’t make sense to say the UK would need US approval for this any more than my right hand needs my left hand’s approval to do anything.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @AndrewR

    Seriously, "Anglo" countries. The idea that a bunch of WASPs are running our foreign policy is beyond childish. You know exactly who runs the show and it's not Anglo Christians.

    Do better.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Whereismyhandle
    @AndrewR

    Glenn Greenwald is right that the British are the worst and most pathetic warmongers.

    Something to do with losing an empire and coping by trying to be the most insane outpost of the American Empire, one imagines.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Sam Malone

  36. This is why I’m not a fan of pushing the neocon “Putler bad, Ruskies so incompetent,” mantra. It just gives them fuel. As if that would demoralize the Russians? Huh? No.

    Our politicians need to feel like we are critiquing them, not cheering them on.

    The current boys & girls in control don’t understand how dangerous this is. They aren’t Henry Kissinger or George Kennan.


  37. Cute

  38. @Anon
    Hi from Tennessee. I'm afraid our nation are the new "bad guys" globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    The world's nations ate learning that its best to have as little to do with America as possible. We are dirty and we cheat.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Unz, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon

    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    I’d say we’ve begun mistreating our NATO “allies” even worse than the USSR did the members of the Warsaw Pact. Our total media control allows us to do this, but at some point it may stop working.

    It may be a very difficult winter for many Europeans.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Ron Unz

    Quibble: "begun"?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly

    , @clifford brown
    @Ron Unz

    The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Rob

    , @Paul Rise
    @Ron Unz

    How much methane and other greenhouse gas has been released by these breaks?

    In all likelihood the late winter in northern Europe at least will be much warmer than normal. I wonder how hot the spring will be?

  39. Neocons now dominate Dems and the American dog is learning much from the Israeli tail. Wag, wag, wag.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  40. It’s difficult to imagine a motive for Russia doing this. Nordstream 2 was largely financed by Gazprom to sell russian gas into Europe. It isn’t being used now and Europe is ostensibly boycotting russian gas anyway (even if they aren’t really), so blowing it up doesn’t interrupt Europe’s gas supply. And, anyway, if the Russians wanted to do that they could just shut off the flow from their side. Presumably they would want to preserve the infrastructure, which they themselves helped pay for at great expense, for the day when they could again start selling Europe gas openly.

    Who would want to sabotage the pipeline? I don’t know – maybe an entity that wants to preclude an peace settlement in Ukraine, hobble European industry, and expand the market in LNG. Who that would be, I have no idea.

    Nah, it must have been Russia afterall. Putin is a crazy Russian, and crazy Russians just can’t stop themselves from doing crazy russian things. Putin must have cleared some time in his busy schedule of haranging his subjects about the need to mobilize for the 2nd Great Patriotic War against the Fourth Reich of Ukrainian Nazis , and mourning his ever growing circle of unfortunate and accident-prone cronies, to sabotage one of his own governments most valuable economic assets.

    • Agree: Sam Malone
  41. Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    [MORE]

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Rob McX

    Someone asked /pol/ to rate her. The first comment was "as a white woman, she's a 4. As a black woman she's a 9"

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Rob McX

    She looks like a post-op tranny.

    , @fish
    @Rob McX

    …… a bargain at $10 a month.


    You’re mistaken my friend…..I was just repulsed and it didn’t cost me a dime.

    Sure…I’m a little queasy but……

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Rob McX


    Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.
     
    In other words, Czech her out.

    "Czech (Doležal): Nickname For A Lazy Man From The Past Participle Of The Verb Doležet ‘To Stay In Bed’. This Surname Is Also Found In Slovakia."

    Source: Dictionary of American Family Names ©2013, Oxford University Press

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=dolezal#:~:text=Czech%20(Dole%C5%BEal)%3A%20nickname%20for,is%20also%20found%20in%20Slovakia.
     

    , @Yancey Ward
    @Rob McX

    Damn, that Putin is evil!

    , @IHTG
    @Rob McX

    In the words of Zero HP Lovecraft: "She could lose weight."

  42. @Polistra

    This Seems Concerning
     
    Concerning what?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    This Seems Concerning

    Concerning what?

    Concerning whom?

  43. If Russia did it:
    –it’s a way for Putin to lock his successor into conflict with the West
    –it’s a warning against Norway and the West (on the very day that a new gas pipeline from Norway to Poland opened, giving Poland gas independence)
    –it’s a signal that “we’re all in now”

    If the West did it:
    –it’s a warning to Putin that we can also hit him hard (i.e., don’t use nukes)
    –it’s a way to make sure Russia doesn’t back down, so that we can finish it off once and for all. It seemed we beat them fair and square in the Cold War… now they want a rematch?

    A minor episode in Russian history I came across today:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide

    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
    @Yarro1

    Or, if the West did it:

    It’s a desperate, spiteful dick move which furthers no Western strategic interest and makes NATO members seriously question what they have gotten themselves into, when their own alliance is doing more damage to its members and wannabe members than to Russia.

  44. It could well have been Poland — Poland has the means and motive, and their own pipeline alternative they want Germany to sign on to — but it could not have been done without US permission, especially with the Kearsarge right there.
    Or maybe there were three catastrophic ruptures at the same time because of climate change.

    • Replies: @BosTex
    @J.Ross

    Thanks.

    I think the Poles just demanded reparations from Germany for Second World War damage?

    Intramural NATO dispute easily foisted onto the Russians, perhaps?

    Seems like an insanely evil and stupid act, no matter who did it.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross

    Or maybe the methane is just sea cows...

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sea+cow&ia=images&iax=images

    Time for great whites to switch to soy!!

  45. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    Someone asked /pol/ to rate her. The first comment was “as a white woman, she’s a 4. As a black woman she’s a 9”

  46. @Ron Unz
    @Anon


    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?
     
    I'd say we've begun mistreating our NATO "allies" even worse than the USSR did the members of the Warsaw Pact. Our total media control allows us to do this, but at some point it may stop working.

    It may be a very difficult winter for many Europeans.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @clifford brown, @Paul Rise

    Quibble: “begun”?

    • Replies: @Matthew Kelly
    @J.Ross

    I suspect that's Mr. Unz being polite. Kissinger's old quote demonstrates that our awful treatment of allies is not a recent thing.

  47. @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don’t think so!
     
    Alternative hypothesis: One of our SEAL teams finally got to put its BUDs training to use with some actual underwater demolition.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Brutusale

    But by the order of whom? Neocons, of course.

    Your cattle have pleased their masters well.

    I have to admit it. Gentile whites don’t deserve your respect. It’s your world – for now.

  48. @Ron Unz
    @Anon


    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?
     
    I'd say we've begun mistreating our NATO "allies" even worse than the USSR did the members of the Warsaw Pact. Our total media control allows us to do this, but at some point it may stop working.

    It may be a very difficult winter for many Europeans.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @clifford brown, @Paul Rise

    The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @clifford brown

    'The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.'

    I can imagine. They think the idea is to not have a war.

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly

    , @Rob
    @clifford brown

    From the POV of (non-Confederate) US, hasn’t every war we’ve fought (pre-Jewish ascendency) turned out swimmingly for us? Why would they not want a war?

    Europeans? Every time two European countries fought, one lost. They didn’t have tons of immigrant cannon fodder, so they lost sons and brothers. World Wars I and II destroyed their Empires and shattered any cultural confidence they had. This is both good, in that there’s less “let’s kill some Frenchmen for Der Kaiser,” and bad, in that there’s less of “let’s not give our country away to random backwash for imperial silliness.”

    On Mr. Anne Applebaum’s idea, what is the (certainly specious) reasoning that Nordstream 2 would let the Rush Inns push around Poland?

    “If” blowing up Nordstream 2 was us and if it gets the Germans to realize that their only real option is buying nuclear power from France, it could be the most environmentally friendly thing the Biden administration will do. They should buy from the French because realistically, who is better at it? Look at the engineering behind BMW’s laser beam headlights and say if you think they are the best choice for nuclear engineering.

    Wonder if Alternative for Deutschland will propose a) building nuclear capacity, or at least not breaking more of it, or b) trying Angela Merkel for genocide when “Syrian” migrants start freezing to death. Seriously, winter has historically been a harsh selection pressure in Europe.

    Over/under on the real international crisis? Girls in Persia want to let their hair down! I’m sure everyone in the White House wants to conquer the country to stop mandatory hair covering. Maybe after the midterms. A Republican Congress elected to curb crime and inflation will of course use their mandate and goodwill to give a lame duck D nation-building in the Mideast. We didn’t end two wars for nothing!

  49. @MEH 0910
    Radek Sikorski MEP Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

    Replies: @Jack D, @aNewBanner

    I feel like if this is a operation by USG, then there should have been news stories on these pipelines in the recent past to prepare the general public, with these news stories provided by reputable sources. (The president doesn’t count.)

  50. @Matthew Kelly
    Some links:

    From February 2022: https://www.unz.com/mhudson/americas-real-adversaries-are-its-european-and-other-allies/

    I have no idea how credible this account is but I'll post it anyway: https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1574758898086694912

    Three little pigs: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572340065506033664

    Blaming this on Russia feels right down there with "OMG Assad gassed his own people!" Deep state gonna deep state I guess.

    Some more that have been making the rounds in case you missed them:
    https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/patrick-goodenough/state-dept-if-russia-invades-ukraine-one-way-or-another
    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490792461979078662

    Replies: @J.Ross

    This, Russia had no motive, they want people to buy Russian gas through the Russian pipeline, it was recently stopped not by Putin but by Scholz, plus if Russia did want something like this, they had only to push a button and switch the line off from their end, no need to deploy needed men to blow stuff up where it could alarm Western Europeans.

    • Agree: Thirdtwin
  51. Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that’s necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @PiltdownMan

    PiltdownMan asked:


    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that’s necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?
     

    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.

    I'm assuming you are asking if a spark could have caused the breaks.

    Now, once the gas breaks the surface, oh yeah, it will burn. I'd think the fire would be self-sustaining once started.

    Should make quite a show.

    Might be a good idea, in fact: methane is an intense greenhouse gas, much worse than CO2. Burn methane and you just get CO2 and water.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Herbert R. Tarlek, Jr.
    @PiltdownMan

    Do these things catch fire?

    This is essentially the aquatic version of the Darvaza gas crater. I'm not a petroleum engineer or anything, but I see no reason that this couldn't catch fire, at least above the surface of the water where large amounts of free oxygen are available. It's essentially a giant version of a burner on your gas stove that's been turned on, but with no pilot light--yet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater

  52. Der Spiegel is reporting that the CIA warned the German government a few weeks ago about possible attacks on the NS1 and NS2 pipelines:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/damage-nord-stream-pipelines-unprecedented-may-have-been-sabotaged

    Well, their actual words were “It’d be a real shame if anything was to happen to your pipeline.”

  53. Don’t be a child, Steve. The Poles would never carry out such an operation without US – sorry, neocon – approval.

    Don’t make a fool of yourself. Covid was bad enough.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  54. @AndrewR
    @Hypnotoad666

    It's popular to talk about the UK as a junior partner, if not a vassal state, of the US, but there is literally no difference between them in terms of foreign policy. Really, all the Anglo countries can be thought of as one single country, with each subunit having some domestic autonomy.

    The US of course is "first among equals," given that it makes up the majority of the Anglosphere in every sense except land mass, but it doesn't make sense to say the UK would need US approval for this any more than my right hand needs my left hand's approval to do anything.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Whereismyhandle

    Seriously, “Anglo” countries. The idea that a bunch of WASPs are running our foreign policy is beyond childish. You know exactly who runs the show and it’s not Anglo Christians.

    Do better.

    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You know I know who's running the show, and you know I didn't imply otherwise. You're being purposefully obtuse.

    Do better.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

  55. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    lol. u mad, fed?

  56. Poland, “The hyena of Europe” (Churchill), is the culprit. They are openly gloating about it.

    It’s clearly a casus belli from a NATO member.

    Goal: Force the routing of irreplaceable Russian natural gas shipments through existing pipelines in Poland and Ukraine so these two countries can earn lucrative transit fees (and “leak”, i.e. steal, natural gas along the routes). If Russia refuses additional deliveries through these two countries’ pipelines, blame cruel Russia for deaths by freezing in Europe this coming winter.

    NordStream bypasses these two countries’ natural gas (European trans-shipment) pipelines altogether.

    Russia could–and should–justifiably retaliate by destroying the undersea natural gas pipelines of other NATO members, i.e., Norway and Britain.

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
  57. My favorite “dumb Pollack” joke:

    “Nordstream’s only logic was for Putin to be able to blackmail or wage war on Eastern Europe with impunity.”

    • Agree: Rob
  58. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    She looks like a post-op tranny.

  59. @Buzz Mohawk
    Either way this is more than concerning. This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil. There is no scenario in which they are not, no matter whose side you are on and even if you are not on a side.

    Replies: @clifford brown, @Reg Cæsar

    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.

    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn’t what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan
    @Reg Cæsar

    I wonder if Russia has frogmen/UDT capable of helping the Polish line " break"?

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Cæsar wrote to Buzz Mohawk:


    [Buzz] This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.

    [Reg] On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn’t what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

     

    Nordstream 1 took two hits; Nordstream 2 also took a hit -- within the same 24-hour period. And the Swedes say they detected underwater explosions.

    A coincidence which stretches credulity -- not one in a thousand chance.

    Somebody did this. On purpose.

    The Russian response will be... educational.
    , @SonarBaltic
    @Reg Cæsar


    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn’t what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was.
     
    Yep, when the nuclear Armageddon commences we can all mock the Russkie hypersonic missile engineering and hypersonic glide vehicle MIRVs.

    At least for 9 minutes or so.

    Reg Cæsar = 🤡
    , @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar


    On the other hand, maybe it just burst.
     
    It's not even being used right now. NS2 has never been used. Presumably it has some positive pressure of natgas in it just to provide some blanket pressure. The Swedes and Danes seem to think it was ruptured with explosives. The acoustic signature of a high-order explosion would be different than that of an over-pressure event.
  60. @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    My Google News feed had literally NOTHING on this story (but it had something on Tom Brady and Gisselle getting along better). This coordinated MSM silence speaks volumes of course about who did this.

    Luckily, our man Tucker was all over it. One highlight at about the 5:45 mark is Victoria Nuland on tape during congressional testimony pledging that “one way or another” the U.S. would put an end to Nordstream II.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Thanks: Richard B, Abe, Mark G.
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Hypnotoad666

    Bingo. The same Jews media that stops the presses if Putin sneezes is dead silent about this game changing terrorist attack. We know EXACTLY who did it.

  61. @Jack D
    @Anon

    Sources? Russian Telegram? Are these the same American ships that sank the Moskva? Remember, nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @Richard B

    nothing happens unless Moscow denies it.

    Nothing happens unless Israel/USA (same thing) denies it.

    FIFY

    This has Mossad/CIA (same thing) written all over it.

  62. @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    No court of law has found fraud in the Donbas elections, therefore this sort of election denialism by NPR and their ilk should be flagged as misinformation.

    • Thanks: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @James Braxton

    No court of law found OJ guilty.

    Is that like “no true Scotsmen…”. What court of law is hearing this “Donbas elections, fair or unfair” lawsuit? Are they accepting amicus briefs?

  63. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    …… a bargain at $10 a month.

    You’re mistaken my friend…..I was just repulsed and it didn’t cost me a dime.

    Sure…I’m a little queasy but……

  64. In the “requires further research” file: there are claims that there were 19 P-8s running sub-hunting patterns off the coast of the US overnight (US time), and 2 off the cost of Airstrip One. The ones off the UK had fighter escort.

    This could be a situation where the US Death Machine and its satrapies ‘flood the zone’ with spoofed radar signatures as a misdirection – so that the Evil Rooooskies worry about their submarines being detected – although the P8’s no good for ASuW if the enemy is submerged.

    OR it could be that the Death Machine literally thinks that it was too urgent a situation to bother trying to make their Poseidons less amenable to tracking.

    For context: there has never been a situation where 19 Poseidons were in the air at the same time (they only went into service in 2012).

    It’s pretty much a straight (DEEP) shot from the likely ‘home base’ of the Evil Rooooskies’ new sub (the Belgorod); the Belgorod can sit stationary on the sea floor as required, and carries the Poseidon submarine drone, which is said (by the Evil Rooooskies) to be capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

    US-tards claim that the submarine drone is either propaganda or ‘just a research vessel’… the same people claimed the same thing about Belgorod right up until literally two weeks before it entered sea trials. So…

    The Belgorod is quite specifically designed as a “second strike” platform: take the straight shot to the US West Coast, and launch some number of nuclear submarine drones… so if I was the US, I would have all my P8s in the sky about now as well… hoping that “my” Poseidons (the plane) could detect “Putin’s” Poseidons (the submarine drones).

    For context: screencap of date and time of post (Oz time)

  65. @Anonymous
    The US Navy ran an "exercise" a few months ago in the vicinity of the Nordstream explosions that involved explosive ordinance units and underwater drones and mines:

    https://twitter.com/VelociTom/status/1574768132069130240

    Replies: @Travis

    in June 2022, the US and NATO carried out an extensive “training” exercise near Bornholm Island in exact area where Nordstream was sabotaged. One of the major “achievements” of the operation was the collection of over 200 hours of undersea data – data which included precision mapping of the exact location of the Nordstream pipelines.

    Four weeks ago the UK trained Ukrainian specialists in the use of underwater drones. The Royal Navy article on the training operation (joint with US Navy) stated that the UK gave “six of the underwater drones to Ukrainehttps://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2022/august/26/20220826-royal-navy-divers-train-ukrainians-to-hunt-for-mines-with-underwater-drones

    Dozens of Ukrainian Navy personnel will be taught to use the underwater drones over the coming months, with the first tranche having already begun their training. Captain Ben Vickery Royal Navy, Captain of Royal Navy Diving and Mine Warfare, said he was struck by the passion and commitment with which the Ukrainians had thrown themselves into learning how to operate the underwater drones. “These incredible, motivated and very professional sailors have thrown themselves into the task and have made incredible progress gaining an excellent level of proficiency.”

    the UK drones given to Ukraine can deploy up to 100 meters. This is deep enough to hit the Nordstream pipelines which are said to be about 100 meters deep (and a little shallower near Bornholm Island)

  66. @BosTex
    No Steve, for the love of all that is holy, not another Ukraine related post .

    “Putin Fanbois” “Hasbara Trolls” “Ukronazi Plants”.

    Arghhhhhhhhhhh!

    Please add a post: Russia - Ukraine: who DGAF?

    Replies: @kr0827

    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

    • Replies: @BosTex
    @kr0827

    Silly goose: have a sense of humor.

    You will see, there is a joker in the deck called: “HA”: he’ll be here shortly denouncing any one who thinks Ukraine is a corrupt hellhole as a “Putin Fanboi”.

    Shortly after that: Jack D will be accused of being a “Hasbara Troll” (Jack is the most Jewish man since Moses…)

    Shortly after that: someone will say that HA is a
    paid Ukronazi stooge sitting in his grandmother’s basement in Dubuque, IA in the pay of CIA, Mossad and MI6. He is definitely not American!

    At the end of day, no clarity will be achieved, everyone will walk away with the same opinions they had before and then iSteve will add another Ukraine post in a few days that will generate 406 comments with same results.

  67. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    In other words, Czech her out.

    “Czech (Doležal): Nickname For A Lazy Man From The Past Participle Of The Verb Doležet ‘To Stay In Bed’. This Surname Is Also Found In Slovakia.”

    Source: Dictionary of American Family Names ©2013, Oxford University Press

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=dolezal#:~:text=Czech%20(Dole%C5%BEal)%3A%20nickname%20for,is%20also%20found%20in%20Slovakia.

    • LOL: Jim Bob Lassiter
  68. @AndrewR
    @Hypnotoad666

    It's popular to talk about the UK as a junior partner, if not a vassal state, of the US, but there is literally no difference between them in terms of foreign policy. Really, all the Anglo countries can be thought of as one single country, with each subunit having some domestic autonomy.

    The US of course is "first among equals," given that it makes up the majority of the Anglosphere in every sense except land mass, but it doesn't make sense to say the UK would need US approval for this any more than my right hand needs my left hand's approval to do anything.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Whereismyhandle

    Glenn Greenwald is right that the British are the worst and most pathetic warmongers.

    Something to do with losing an empire and coping by trying to be the most insane outpost of the American Empire, one imagines.

    • Agree: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Whereismyhandle

    Since long before it lost its empire, Britain's primary foreign policy goal has been to prevent the rise of a dominant power in Continental Europe. Hence, it's in their interest to drive a wedge between Germany and Russia. Consistent with that, NATO's first secretary general, the Briton Hastings Ismay, famously described the alliance's purpose as: "keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.".

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @Sam Malone
    @Whereismyhandle

    The British press, most especially the tabloids, are indeed once again reminding us all that they are the slime of the earth, with the insane levels of absolute hatred and venomous ad-hominem and ludicrous exaggeration they've unleashed since February (VLAD THE BUTCHER!!! MAD VLAD *SMILES* AS HE ORDERS MORE CIVILIANS TORTURED!!!!!!, and on and on and on).

    The quality papers are obviously not so crude, but I believe every one of them is 100% on board with the obsessive war drum-beating, the near-total lack of nuance, and a studied uninterest in the recent history of Russia's security concerns being routinely disregarded and in fact deliberately trampled over by the US since the 1990s. Their determination to maintain the war fever with twisted half-truths and the suppression of inconvenient narratives is unsurprising but repulsive.

    But British aggression and arrogance and jingoism, and their skill at lying and deceit and propaganda, certainly precede the loss of the empire which began in 1947. During WWI and WWII the Brits (or rather the creatures in Whitehall and Westminster and Fleet Street and The City that ruled them and molded their thoughts) were absolute masters at creating untruthful but rousing propaganda which succeeded in motivating their own public, and also were skilled in directing propaganda at the enemy which confused and demoralized his troops. And of course in both wars they were highly successful in conducting lobbying efforts and dirty tricks operations and propaganda stunts in the neutral and powerful United States which won over the public and government.

  69. @Bragadocious
    The Polacks have been a nightmare throughout this whole thing, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did it.

    Speaking of nightmares, there's alleged peacenik Roger Waters, who just had one of his dreadful performances cancelled by Poland. Waters may try to rewrite history, but during his Us + Them tour in 2017, he frequently ran memes on stage of Putin performing sex on Trump. Is this consistent with a desire for peace? Is Waters doing "culture work" for MI6 and the Integrity Initiative? I don't think there's any doubt.

    When the zeitgeist declared it cool to depict Putin as a monster, long before 2/22, Waters was 100% on board and contributed to it. Now he's mortified that we're on the precipice of a nuclear war that he helped instigate.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    Is Waters doing “culture work” for MI6 and the Integrity Initiative?

    I wouldn’t be surprised. British soap operas are being used by the state as vessels for propaganda.

    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
    @Rob McX

    Waters has Daddy issues anyway
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Four

  70. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.
     
    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn't what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @PhysicistDave, @SonarBaltic, @Mr. Anon

    I wonder if Russia has frogmen/UDT capable of helping the Polish line ” break”?

  71. There is only one scenario that is credible for the Russians having done this- that the Russians intend to blow up the western owned pipelines from the North Sea and North Africa as a “provoked” tat for tit. I don’t put much odds on this scenario being true, but there it is.

    This was either eco-terrorism, or it was the US doing it, or approving it being done. I think that covers 90% of the probability distribution.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  72. @BG Jack D. Ripper
    @usNthem

    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Diversity Heretic

    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.

    But maybe not necessarily far from the strategic missile silos. They are all located in the booniest of boondocks and are certainly the prime target of a Russian nuclear response.

  73. Biden insinuated in February, Nuland the month prior. So why now? Well, just today the “Baltic Pipe” was inaugurated (bringing gas from Norway to Poland). But the volumes are disparate, 55bcm annually for Nord, and only 10 bcm for the Pipe. Thus, the concurrent timing is not so much a matter of replacement having arrived. Rather, the reason for the concurrent timing is that it manifests in-your-faceness, a US specialty; you see, Putin, WE control energy in Europe, and you don’t, just look at today’s bookends.

    Meanwhile, Gazprom, sole Nord shareholder, has lost its asset. In other words, the US has destroyed a Russian asset not by proxy, but directly. Putin would need to prove it. The Baltic Sea is only around 50 yards deep on average, and Putin could send divers down, but whatever they might find would be ridiculed as Russian disinformation. The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @SafeNow


    The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.
     
    And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state's involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    , @Kratoklastes
    @SafeNow


    Putin would need to prove it.
     
    In what forum, and to what end?

    If the Russian Federation uses this as a casus belli, it won't be seeking UN Security Council approval. The US has a veto, and would not abstain. The US does not recognise the ICC or the ICJ as having jurisdiction.

    What will happen will be the 'old-fashioned' way à la 1939, adapted for 'working from home': kind of like 'shuttle diplomacy' by Zoom.

    Blinken (and Macron, and Scholz) will plead innocence and ignorance; Lavrov will make it clear that it is the position of the Russian Federation that they are all lying, as befits representatives of the Empire of Lies and that the Russian Federation is unwilling to negotiate further because the Empire of Lies is institutionally недоговороспособны ("non-agreement-capable").

    Lavrov will further elaborate: the спецоперация ("special operation") in Ukraine is now a counter-terrorism action similar to the one that US conducted in Afghanistan (the US made it clear that it was going into Afghanistan whether it got UNSC backing or not).

    To reprise Dubya: in the War on Terrrrrrrrr, the entire world is the battlespace.

    Welcome to "Reap What You Sow, Motherfuckers".

    The US Death Machine had its high-V bullshitting retards confect a new "international rules-based order" that ignored established international legal norms - on invasion, torture, imprisonment-without-trial, extrajudicial assassination and a bunch of other things.

    "Them thar new rules" are going to comprise the putative legal basis for Russia's actions.

    Replies: @Jack D

  74. @Trelane
    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It's arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Colin Wright

    Trelane asked:

    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It’s arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?

    Standard detective analysis: motive, method, opportunity.

    US and Ukraine had motive. It’s not clear Ukraine had method — Ukraine doe snot border on the Baltic and has no navy to speak of.

    One other key point: if Ukraine did it, why not take responsibility? Why not brag about it?

    But it’s easy to see why the US would not take responsibility — this is a clear-cut act of war.

    I don’t know who did it. But I do know where the evidence points.

    • Agree: Prester John
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @PhysicistDave

    You don't need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country's navy running interference while carrying it out.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @MEH 0910

  75. @J.Ross
    It could well have been Poland -- Poland has the means and motive, and their own pipeline alternative they want Germany to sign on to -- but it could not have been done without US permission, especially with the Kearsarge right there.
    Or maybe there were three catastrophic ruptures at the same time because of climate change.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Chrisnonymous

    Thanks.

    I think the Poles just demanded reparations from Germany for Second World War damage?

    Intramural NATO dispute easily foisted onto the Russians, perhaps?

    Seems like an insanely evil and stupid act, no matter who did it.

  76. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    Damn Russians even clever enough to get Biden to say this in public so they could record it and load it to Youtube 6 months ago!

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Yancey Ward

    HackD is spinning so hard for his Deep State masters here if you wrapped him wire he'd generate enough electricity to power a Tesla.

  77. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn’t even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    He’s told what to say by Actual Presidents Ron Klain and Tony Blinken and Jill Biden, with guidance from Victoria Nuland and the Kagan clan.

    He doesn’t need to remember what he said months afterward.

    But we do.

  78. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.
     
    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn't what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @PhysicistDave, @SonarBaltic, @Mr. Anon

    Reg Cæsar wrote to Buzz Mohawk:

    [Buzz] This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.

    [Reg] On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn’t what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Nordstream 1 took two hits; Nordstream 2 also took a hit — within the same 24-hour period. And the Swedes say they detected underwater explosions.

    A coincidence which stretches credulity — not one in a thousand chance.

    Somebody did this. On purpose.

    The Russian response will be… educational.

  79. @Anon
    Hi from Tennessee. I'm afraid our nation are the new "bad guys" globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    The world's nations ate learning that its best to have as little to do with America as possible. We are dirty and we cheat.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Unz, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon

    I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now.

    Well, in fairness, we are a vassal state.

  80. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1675074/Nord-Stream-news-leak-diveable-zone-russia-underwater-drones-expert/amp

    Russia has underwater drones capable of blowing up their pipelines according the the experts…The experts failed to mention that Ukraine also has underwater drones with the same ability to destroy the pipelines.
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/27/uk-to-give-ukraine-underwater-mine-clearing-drones-and-training

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    And how, pray tell, would the Ukrainians have managed to place their underwater drones in the Baltic Sea? It's a very long sea voyage to the area of the explosions via the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  81. @Trelane
    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It's arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Colin Wright

    ‘Cui bono?’

    No one. Biden’s handlers may imagine they will — but they won’t either, not in the end.

    • Agree: ic1000
  82. @Daniel H
    Let's establish an odds line, that will coalesce around whom the consensus will name the culprit (not necessarily THE culprit). I predict the consensus will blame it on the Russians. But Russians are clumsy with everything, could they have pulled this off without leaving definite evidence that it was they that did it? Something to consider, though, back in the 1980s the Swedes were always getting worked up over alleged trespass of Russian submarines on their territorial waters, but nothing was ever proved that Russia was trespassing. Could Russians be much better at submarining than we have all anticipated?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Pericles

    They would truly be the masters of submarining to submarine there, it’s too shallow. And right under US ships? (When they could just turn the damn thing off?) But I agree that the lyingpress filth will soon confidently declare it could only have been evil Russians.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    @J.Ross


    They would truly be the masters of submarining to submarine there, it’s too shallow.
     
    Some of the incidents in Sweden involved underwater tracked vehicles.
  83. @Whereismyhandle
    @AndrewR

    Glenn Greenwald is right that the British are the worst and most pathetic warmongers.

    Something to do with losing an empire and coping by trying to be the most insane outpost of the American Empire, one imagines.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Sam Malone

    Since long before it lost its empire, Britain’s primary foreign policy goal has been to prevent the rise of a dominant power in Continental Europe. Hence, it’s in their interest to drive a wedge between Germany and Russia. Consistent with that, NATO’s first secretary general, the Briton Hastings Ismay, famously described the alliance’s purpose as: “keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Dave Pinsen

    The fear a united Germany put into Britain in the 19th Century and 20th Century is rarely mentioned but cannot be overstated. German scientific and military accomplishments rivaled in that era and in many areas surpassed Britain, and with the the end of Napoleon and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire Germany could focus on its own unification, ironically which Napoleon's actions had precipitated. The U.K. was obsessive in disrupting German advancement, fearing the loss of its Empire and its European dominance from Germany rising to defeat it.

  84. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.
     
    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn't what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @PhysicistDave, @SonarBaltic, @Mr. Anon

    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn’t what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was.

    Yep, when the nuclear Armageddon commences we can all mock the Russkie hypersonic missile engineering and hypersonic glide vehicle MIRVs.

    At least for 9 minutes or so.

    Reg Cæsar = 🤡

  85. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    Damn, that Putin is evil!

  86. @PiltdownMan
    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that's necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Herbert R. Tarlek, Jr.

    PiltdownMan asked:

    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that’s necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?

    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.

    I’m assuming you are asking if a spark could have caused the breaks.

    Now, once the gas breaks the surface, oh yeah, it will burn. I’d think the fire would be self-sustaining once started.

    Should make quite a show.

    Might be a good idea, in fact: methane is an intense greenhouse gas, much worse than CO2. Burn methane and you just get CO2 and water.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @PhysicistDave


    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.
     
    I should have made my question clearer, PhysicistDave. Sorry about that.

    Do these underwater gas leaks burn when they reach the surface and mix with the air? Or is the natural gas/air mixture to dilute to reliably stay alight?

    Also, Is there any environmental advantage to now deliberately setting this leak aflame if it will burn? CO2 is less of a greenhouse gas than methane, IIRC.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @PhysicistDave

    OK, Physicist, but now Engineer, Dave, do you have an idea of how long this methane will be pouring out into the sea and the air? Besides being an act of war by (I would agree) the Potomac Regime, it's the tremendous waste that pissed me off about this too. Bear with me, because it's been a while since I've thought about some of this:

    Each of the 2 pipes* in the line are 45.4" ID with a thickness is 1.5". (i.e., Thin-Walled) The working pressure was to be 3.2 ksi.** I just read that the line had no flow, but 11 billion cubic feet of gas in it, ready for delivery. Based on the length and ID, that is ~40 million cubic ft of internal volume x 2 pipes so 80 million total, meaning the gas is at 130-140 atmospheres or ~2.o ksi pressure.

    This is the interesting part. With the simple Pr/t formula, I get a 30 ksi tangential stress in the steel pipe, were it not underwater under external pressure. Wiki says the depth is 260 - 360 ft, but that'd vary and that might be the deepest. Even in 300 ft of water, the external pressure would be only 10 atm, so pretty insignificant in lowering the stress or the flow rate out though a leak. (Also, the leak was mentioned to be in shallower water than that.)

    There's concrete casing around it that's not for structure but for weighing down the pipeline. This is also interesting, as that gas at its designed working pressure of 220 atm, has significant weight, but it and the steel must not be heavy enough against buoyancy. That'd be an easy calculation, but you can't get quite away with using the natural gas law - one interpolation has the density around 10-15 lbm/ft^3, so 120-180 lb per linear foot. The steel would be about 735 lb/ft. A 1 ft. plug of water the size of that pipe weighs (almost incompressible, so not much different than sea level) coincidentally about 700 lb. The pipe would barely sink with nothing in it and no casing. I assume they install these sealed to the ocean(?) (It looked as if that might be the case in some guy's video above.)

    All that was fun but neither here nor there, as far as the leak goes. It obviously depends on how big a hole the explosives made. Could the Russians let the gas back flow to save some of the gas? I do realize that's not the major point here.

    Finally, no, I doubt anyone in his right, non-virtual-signalling, mind really cares about this methane exacerbating the Climate Crisis™. That doesn't make the whole thing any less hypocritical in that sense though.


    .

    * Both NS1 and NS2 have a pair of pipes.

    ** What I know can't find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.

    Replies: @Paul Rise, @Jack D

  87. @clifford brown
    @Ron Unz

    The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Rob

    ‘The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.’

    I can imagine. They think the idea is to not have a war.

    • Replies: @Matthew Kelly
    @Colin Wright

    Yeah, I presume the "leaders" in the EU nations are about as sharp spoons. I wonder if this will red-pill any of them to just how effed up globohomo/GAE is (on the assumption this was a US job--of which I am, thus far, convinced).

    Will be interesting what the next few days brings.

    Of course, it was obvious Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself, yet nothing ever came of that obvious, bald-faced lie. So perhaps nothing will come of this too--they'll just blame it on the Russians and everything will carry on as usual.

  88. It’ll be interesting to see how much of the US media displays any skepticism concerning the official story.

  89. @kr0827
    @BosTex

    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

    Replies: @BosTex

    Silly goose: have a sense of humor.

    You will see, there is a joker in the deck called: “HA”: he’ll be here shortly denouncing any one who thinks Ukraine is a corrupt hellhole as a “Putin Fanboi”.

    Shortly after that: Jack D will be accused of being a “Hasbara Troll” (Jack is the most Jewish man since Moses…)

    Shortly after that: someone will say that HA is a
    paid Ukronazi stooge sitting in his grandmother’s basement in Dubuque, IA in the pay of CIA, Mossad and MI6. He is definitely not American!

    At the end of day, no clarity will be achieved, everyone will walk away with the same opinions they had before and then iSteve will add another Ukraine post in a few days that will generate 406 comments with same results.

    • LOL: Mark G.
  90. Whoever blew up the pipeline was obviously the same person who leaked the Supreme Court draft, sent the anthrax in 2002, and was the John Doe #2 whom 24 different witnesses saw with McVeigh but who doesn’t exist according to the FBI.

  91. Pipeline or subsea compressor station? If the former I have a different idea.

    The Germans and Russians agreed to blow out a minor section of the actual pipe before the West (USA/UK) did something more serious. Now the pipeline is out of the equation.

    Once we reach the denouement the broken pipe can be easily repaired.

    Followed by “Whoosh” the sound of life-sustaining methane flowing to Germany.

  92. @Anon
    I wonder how long it will take before the "Poland started WW2 brigade shows up.

    Replies: @Chris Mallory

    Po’ lil Germany dindu nuffin.

    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
    @Chris Mallory

    Correct. "Nuffin" that wasnt already well into the mix in the history of ideas for 50-150 years or more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism#History

  93. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    From Larry Johnson, former head of CIA operations and former State Dept. Office of Counterterrorism:

    https://sonar21.com/what-a-coincidence/

    WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!
    27 September 2022 by Larry Johnson 32 Comments

    On the very day the world learns about the sabotage of Russia’s Nordstream 1 and Nordstream 2, guess what else happened? Well, Ukrainians from the Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporhyzhia and Kherson oblasts voted in overwhelming numbers to become Russians. While that is a game changer that is not what I had in mind.

    How about this–Poland on Tuesday inaugurated a new pipeline that will transport gas from Norway through Denmark and the Baltic Sea? That is it!!! What a coincidence!! Or is it?

    There is at least one prominent Polish citizen who believes the United States merits praise for sabotaging the Nordstream pipelines. Former former Polish Defense Minister, Radek Sikorski, who happens to be married to Anne Appelbaum, an enthusiastic neo-con masquerading as a journalist, tweeted the following upon learning that the Nordstream lines were now “złamany” (Polish for”kaput”): “Thank you, USA.”

    But, perhaps that is a bit of deflection. Poland has longstanding animus towards Nordstream. In other words, Poland has a clear motive for backing the destruction of the Russian pipeline. More than a year ago -April 2021 to be precise–this appeared in print:

    Poland strongly opposes the development of Nord Stream 2, which will give Gazprom a subsea alternative route for supplying natural gas to Western European customers. At present, that gas has to pass through overland pipeline networks in Poland and Ukraine, bringing in valuable transit fees and providing both nations – which do not always have cordial relations with Russia – a measure of energy security.

    https://maritime-executive.com/article/poland-denies-provocative-naval-maneuvers-near-nord-stream-2

    One month later, Poland pitched a Kielbasi fit:

    Poland has reacted angrily to President Joe Biden’s decision to waive US sanctions on Nord Stream II, warning the move could threaten energy security across Central and Eastern Europe.

    “The information is definitely not positive from the security point of view, as we know perfectly that Nord Stream II is not only a business project – it is mostly a geopolitical project,” said Piotr Muller, a spokesman for the Polish government. . . .
    Announced following a phone-call between Joe Biden and Chancellor Angela Merkel, the US decision to lift sanctions was welcomed in Berlin, with Foreign Minister Heiko Maas noting that “it is an expression of the fact that Germany is an important partner for the US, one that it can count on in the future.”

    The highly controversial pipeline has met with vigorous opposition across Central and Eastern Europe, including in Poland and Ukraine where officials say the project would be used by the Kremlin as a geopolitical weapon, de-facto increase Europe’s dependence on Russian gas and threaten energy security in the Eastern half of the continent.

    https://kafkadesk.org/2021/05/21/poland-angered-by-us-president-bidens-nord-stream-ii-decision/

    Makes you wonder if there was some wheeling and dealing was going on between Washington and Warsaw. Given Warsaw’s critical location and role in ensuring U.S. and NATO military supplies is delivered to Ukraine, the Poles have a bit of leverage to push the United States to take out the pipelines or to help Poland take out the pipelines. Poland’s message to the United States was simple–reverse course on Nordstream and rupture the pipelines or you can find another way to move your military supplies to Ukraine.

    But wait, doesn’t this create some real problems for Germany? Sure. But Poland “don’t” (sic) care. There was this little incident called World War II and it seems that the Poles are still miffed at the Germans. If revenge is a dish best served cold, then this sucker is a frozen dinner:

    Poland’s top politician said Thursday that the government will seek equivalent of some $1.3 trillion in reparations from Germany for the Nazis’ World War II invasion and occupation of his country.

    Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of the Law and Justice party, announced the huge claim at the release of a long-awaited report on the cost to the country of years of Nazi German occupation as it marks 83 years since the start of World War II. . . .

    Germany’s Foreign Ministry said Thursday the government’s position remains “unchanged” in that “the question of reparations is concluded.”

    https://apnews.com/article/poland-germany-world-war-ii-warsaw-49b0cf77745a7b1cabfaa884c3bf0035

    With this new supply of Polish controlled natural gas, Germany is in a tough spot. Buy from Poland or buy from the United States. Either way, the Germans pay a premium while the United States and Poland make some bank.

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  94. Transponders off!

    • LOL: Kratoklastes
  95. @usNthem
    It sure does…

    Replies: @BG Jack D. Ripper, @JimDandy

    I’m actually very glad to hear it sounds concerning.

  96. @Yancey Ward
    @Jack D

    Damn Russians even clever enough to get Biden to say this in public so they could record it and load it to Youtube 6 months ago!

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    HackD is spinning so hard for his Deep State masters here if you wrapped him wire he’d generate enough electricity to power a Tesla.

  97. @Pop Warner

    His wife is journalist Anne Applebaum.
     
    No further explanation necessary

    Replies: @Jack D, @BosTex, @Pilfgrable

    I googled Anne Applebaum and I feel bad for the guy.

    Jack: as far her being a diver: no way, the nose wouldn’t fit in the mask.

    (Not making an anti-Semitic observation: the broad has a big nose).

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @BosTex

    That name always makes me think of this:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HU_4pf8BSQw

  98. @Dave Pinsen
    @Whereismyhandle

    Since long before it lost its empire, Britain's primary foreign policy goal has been to prevent the rise of a dominant power in Continental Europe. Hence, it's in their interest to drive a wedge between Germany and Russia. Consistent with that, NATO's first secretary general, the Briton Hastings Ismay, famously described the alliance's purpose as: "keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.".

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    The fear a united Germany put into Britain in the 19th Century and 20th Century is rarely mentioned but cannot be overstated. German scientific and military accomplishments rivaled in that era and in many areas surpassed Britain, and with the the end of Napoleon and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire Germany could focus on its own unification, ironically which Napoleon’s actions had precipitated. The U.K. was obsessive in disrupting German advancement, fearing the loss of its Empire and its European dominance from Germany rising to defeat it.

  99. @SafeNow
    Biden insinuated in February, Nuland the month prior. So why now? Well, just today the “Baltic Pipe” was inaugurated (bringing gas from Norway to Poland). But the volumes are disparate, 55bcm annually for Nord, and only 10 bcm for the Pipe. Thus, the concurrent timing is not so much a matter of replacement having arrived. Rather, the reason for the concurrent timing is that it manifests in-your-faceness, a US specialty; you see, Putin, WE control energy in Europe, and you don’t, just look at today’s bookends.

    Meanwhile, Gazprom, sole Nord shareholder, has lost its asset. In other words, the US has destroyed a Russian asset not by proxy, but directly. Putin would need to prove it. The Baltic Sea is only around 50 yards deep on average, and Putin could send divers down, but whatever they might find would be ridiculed as Russian disinformation. The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Kratoklastes

    The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.

    And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state’s involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Hypnotoad666

    'And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state’s involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!'

    Ah, JFK...

    Those were the days. That was when the question was whether you believed in conspiracy theories.

    Now it's a matter of which conspiracy theories you believe.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  100. @Cagey Beast
    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @AndrewR

    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.

    That’s my take. If the US did it, it seems stupid.

    I get that without Nordstream the Russians can only continue to export to the West through the pipeline through Ukraine–ergo they must keep supplying Ukraine.

    But the downside–pretty huge–is if there is not enough gas–even if the Russians simply decide to cut it off–the freezing Germans will be blaming the US.

    ~~~

    What’s ridiculous here is the dependency. You don’t let yourself be dependent upon one particular potentially hostile foreign country for something as basic as energy. If you don’t have adequate resources yourself, then be dependent on a fungible commodity–i.e. oil–that you can get from multiple sources.

    But also get you head out of your ass and work to mitigate your dependency. But instead of building out a nuclear infrastructure like the French, the Germans are shutting their nukes down. They aren’t “green”.

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring, but the US, under the Wall Street–“it’s just a big marketplace!”–regime has done this too. GM not being about to build pickups with chips from China (or maybe it’s Taiwan, don’t know). But producing something as basic as a working truck being upended by nonsense going on in the China-sphere. C’mon.

    Fortunately, we’re just in a better situation energy wise.

    • Replies: @petit bourgeois
    @AnotherDad

    Remember when Trump warned the Germans about being dependent on energy from Russia and they snickered at him?

    Bad Orange Man isn't some genius about International Relations; but for the Germans, common sense isn't so common. Some comeuppance is due, to the detriment of Western Europe.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @AnotherDad


    The German stupidity is particularly glaring,.....
     
    Russia is a big country with a lot of resources. It has, with a few interruptions, always sold those resources to countries that needed them. Prior to WWI, Germany (and presumably Austro-Hungary too) bought a lot of stuff from Russia - wheat, oil, etc. It's called international trade. There is nothing wrong with it, in principal. There was no problem with Germany buying gas from Russia either, until there was, on account of Ukraine. The Germans would have been wiser to have had a more diverse energy portfolio (including nuclear), but they're Germans - known for their smarts, not their wisdom.
    , @Cagey Beast
    @AnotherDad

    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Jack D

  101. The only thing “concerning” right now is that we need to have a “conversation” about the Atlanta Braves. Way more important than the escalation by the (((deep state))) towards Mutually Assured Destruction.

    Also, I don’t have the stomach for Doelzal. Can’t unsee that beast. I have to learn how to not click on the “More Below” tag the hard way.

  102. @Anonymous
    https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/4ab732c5-c16a-4bc1-ad6f-e8ca251697bc_1.4521459686635e81241363aa9e752521.jpeg

    Replies: @Workforlivn

  103. @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.
     
    That's my take. If the US did it, it seems stupid.

    I get that without Nordstream the Russians can only continue to export to the West through the pipeline through Ukraine--ergo they must keep supplying Ukraine.

    But the downside--pretty huge--is if there is not enough gas--even if the Russians simply decide to cut it off--the freezing Germans will be blaming the US.

    ~~~

    What's ridiculous here is the dependency. You don't let yourself be dependent upon one particular potentially hostile foreign country for something as basic as energy. If you don't have adequate resources yourself, then be dependent on a fungible commodity--i.e. oil--that you can get from multiple sources.

    But also get you head out of your ass and work to mitigate your dependency. But instead of building out a nuclear infrastructure like the French, the Germans are shutting their nukes down. They aren't "green".

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring, but the US, under the Wall Street--"it's just a big marketplace!"--regime has done this too. GM not being about to build pickups with chips from China (or maybe it's Taiwan, don't know). But producing something as basic as a working truck being upended by nonsense going on in the China-sphere. C'mon.

    Fortunately, we're just in a better situation energy wise.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Mr. Anon, @Cagey Beast

    Remember when Trump warned the Germans about being dependent on energy from Russia and they snickered at him?

    Bad Orange Man isn’t some genius about International Relations; but for the Germans, common sense isn’t so common. Some comeuppance is due, to the detriment of Western Europe.

  104. @Jack D
    @MEH 0910

    Biden said this last February. Old Joe doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast. But the Russians sure had this clip ready to roll.

    Replies: @epebble, @MEH 0910, @R.G. Camara, @Yancey Ward, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @duncsbaby

    Not just Russians, but Americans who don’t want to be led into World War III by the malignant Uncle J0e and his Democrat puppeteers.

  105. @J.Ross
    @Ron Unz

    Quibble: "begun"?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly

    I suspect that’s Mr. Unz being polite. Kissinger’s old quote demonstrates that our awful treatment of allies is not a recent thing.

  106. @Colin Wright
    @clifford brown

    'The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.'

    I can imagine. They think the idea is to not have a war.

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly

    Yeah, I presume the “leaders” in the EU nations are about as sharp spoons. I wonder if this will red-pill any of them to just how effed up globohomo/GAE is (on the assumption this was a US job–of which I am, thus far, convinced).

    Will be interesting what the next few days brings.

    Of course, it was obvious Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself, yet nothing ever came of that obvious, bald-faced lie. So perhaps nothing will come of this too–they’ll just blame it on the Russians and everything will carry on as usual.

  107. @Hypnotoad666
    @SafeNow


    The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.
     
    And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state's involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state’s involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!’

    Ah, JFK…

    Those were the days. That was when the question was whether you believed in conspiracy theories.

    Now it’s a matter of which conspiracy theories you believe.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Colin Wright

    “Now it’s a matter of which conspiracy theories you believe.“

    That’s easy. Jews are behind EVERY single bad thing our world. /sarcasm

  108. @BG Jack D. Ripper
    @usNthem

    I live in a very rural area, far from any major American city and military base. I have no kids. Nuclear apocalypse? Meh, more food for me. Let ‘er rip.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Diversity Heretic

    You might want to review some of the literature regarding the effects of radioactive fallout.

  109. @SafeNow
    Biden insinuated in February, Nuland the month prior. So why now? Well, just today the “Baltic Pipe” was inaugurated (bringing gas from Norway to Poland). But the volumes are disparate, 55bcm annually for Nord, and only 10 bcm for the Pipe. Thus, the concurrent timing is not so much a matter of replacement having arrived. Rather, the reason for the concurrent timing is that it manifests in-your-faceness, a US specialty; you see, Putin, WE control energy in Europe, and you don’t, just look at today’s bookends.

    Meanwhile, Gazprom, sole Nord shareholder, has lost its asset. In other words, the US has destroyed a Russian asset not by proxy, but directly. Putin would need to prove it. The Baltic Sea is only around 50 yards deep on average, and Putin could send divers down, but whatever they might find would be ridiculed as Russian disinformation. The facts will never be proven; add it to the long list of same.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Kratoklastes

    Putin would need to prove it.

    In what forum, and to what end?

    If the Russian Federation uses this as a casus belli, it won’t be seeking UN Security Council approval. The US has a veto, and would not abstain. The US does not recognise the ICC or the ICJ as having jurisdiction.

    What will happen will be the ‘old-fashioned’ way à la 1939, adapted for ‘working from home’: kind of like ‘shuttle diplomacy’ by Zoom.

    Blinken (and Macron, and Scholz) will plead innocence and ignorance; Lavrov will make it clear that it is the position of the Russian Federation that they are all lying, as befits representatives of the Empire of Lies and that the Russian Federation is unwilling to negotiate further because the Empire of Lies is institutionally недоговороспособны (“non-agreement-capable”).

    Lavrov will further elaborate: the спецоперация (“special operation”) in Ukraine is now a counter-terrorism action similar to the one that US conducted in Afghanistan (the US made it clear that it was going into Afghanistan whether it got UNSC backing or not).

    To reprise Dubya: in the War on Terrrrrrrrr, the entire world is the battlespace.

    Welcome to “Reap What You Sow, Motherfuckers“.

    The US Death Machine had its high-V bullshitting retards confect a new “international rules-based order” that ignored established international legal norms – on invasion, torture, imprisonment-without-trial, extrajudicial assassination and a bunch of other things.

    Them thar new rules” are going to comprise the putative legal basis for Russia’s actions.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes


    Lavrov will further elaborate: the спецоперация (“special operation”) in Ukraine is now a counter-terrorism action
     
    Special operation - it's a mouthwash! it's a cake frosting!

    The stated pretexts for the "special operation" have already changed at least 5 or 6 times so one or two more won't hurt.

    You forgot to mention that as a result of the "referendums" the Russian occupied areas of Ukraine are now part of the territory of Russia, so therefore Russia is now fighting a DEFENSIVE war on its own territory and Ukraine is the aggressor.

    Lavrov can use all the pretzel logic he wants but it's not going to change reality.
  110. @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.
     
    That's my take. If the US did it, it seems stupid.

    I get that without Nordstream the Russians can only continue to export to the West through the pipeline through Ukraine--ergo they must keep supplying Ukraine.

    But the downside--pretty huge--is if there is not enough gas--even if the Russians simply decide to cut it off--the freezing Germans will be blaming the US.

    ~~~

    What's ridiculous here is the dependency. You don't let yourself be dependent upon one particular potentially hostile foreign country for something as basic as energy. If you don't have adequate resources yourself, then be dependent on a fungible commodity--i.e. oil--that you can get from multiple sources.

    But also get you head out of your ass and work to mitigate your dependency. But instead of building out a nuclear infrastructure like the French, the Germans are shutting their nukes down. They aren't "green".

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring, but the US, under the Wall Street--"it's just a big marketplace!"--regime has done this too. GM not being about to build pickups with chips from China (or maybe it's Taiwan, don't know). But producing something as basic as a working truck being upended by nonsense going on in the China-sphere. C'mon.

    Fortunately, we're just in a better situation energy wise.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Mr. Anon, @Cagey Beast

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring,…..

    Russia is a big country with a lot of resources. It has, with a few interruptions, always sold those resources to countries that needed them. Prior to WWI, Germany (and presumably Austro-Hungary too) bought a lot of stuff from Russia – wheat, oil, etc. It’s called international trade. There is nothing wrong with it, in principal. There was no problem with Germany buying gas from Russia either, until there was, on account of Ukraine. The Germans would have been wiser to have had a more diverse energy portfolio (including nuclear), but they’re Germans – known for their smarts, not their wisdom.

  111. @PhysicistDave
    @PiltdownMan

    PiltdownMan asked:


    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that’s necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?
     

    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.

    I'm assuming you are asking if a spark could have caused the breaks.

    Now, once the gas breaks the surface, oh yeah, it will burn. I'd think the fire would be self-sustaining once started.

    Should make quite a show.

    Might be a good idea, in fact: methane is an intense greenhouse gas, much worse than CO2. Burn methane and you just get CO2 and water.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Achmed E. Newman

    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.

    I should have made my question clearer, PhysicistDave. Sorry about that.

    Do these underwater gas leaks burn when they reach the surface and mix with the air? Or is the natural gas/air mixture to dilute to reliably stay alight?

    Also, Is there any environmental advantage to now deliberately setting this leak aflame if it will burn? CO2 is less of a greenhouse gas than methane, IIRC.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @PiltdownMan

    PiltdownMan wrote to me:


    Do these underwater gas leaks burn when they reach the surface and mix with the air? Or is the natural gas/air mixture to dilute to reliably stay alight
     
    Well, it will not spontaneously combust: something would have have to light it.

    My guess is that, once lit, it would probably keep burning: you see the pictures, and there's an awful lot of this stuff bubbling up. But it is possible that one bubble breaks here and another breaks there and it is not continuous in one spot.

    I think we need a petroleum engineer or maybe a chemical engineer to give a definitive answer.

    Anyone around?

    PD also wrote:

    Also, Is there any environmental advantage to now deliberately setting this leak aflame if it will burn? CO2 is less of a greenhouse gas than methane, IIRC.
     
    Yeah, methane is a nasty greenhouse gas; CO2 is relatively mild.

    On the other hand, it is a very big planet: my guess is these leaks are a pretty small contribution on the global scale.

    Of course, it depends on what the Russians do: I assume they are turning off the gas on their end, which means the pipelines will eventually fill with seawater -- which is not good.

    This thing is going to be a real mess.

    Anyway, your and my guesses are in sync, but we need a petroleum engineer to give us definitive answers.
  112. @PhysicistDave
    @Trelane

    Trelane asked:


    Sabotage for sure but who did it? It’s arguably an act of war. Like the sinking of the Lusitania.

    Cui bono?
     
    Standard detective analysis: motive, method, opportunity.

    US and Ukraine had motive. It's not clear Ukraine had method -- Ukraine doe snot border on the Baltic and has no navy to speak of.

    One other key point: if Ukraine did it, why not take responsibility? Why not brag about it?

    But it's easy to see why the US would not take responsibility -- this is a clear-cut act of war.

    I don't know who did it. But I do know where the evidence points.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    You don’t need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country’s navy running interference while carrying it out.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Redneck farmer

    Redneck farmer wrote to me


    :You don’t need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country’s navy running interference while carrying it out.
     
    Well... you actually have to find the pipeline. And, then, I don't think it is as simple as just dropping a depth charge n the vicinity: you have to get pretty close.

    Could the Royal Navy do it? Sure. Any company that does deep-sea work? Probably.

    Zelensky? I don't think Ukraine today is up to running this kind of operation a few thousand miles (vai sea lanes) from home.

    Anyway, if Zelensky did it, why not take credit? It would be a morale booster.

    On the other hand, if the US Deep State did it, owning up to it publicly would almost guarantee Russian retaliation. And, from the Deep State viewpoint, having the Russians thinking that maybe it was Ukraine makes sense.

    Proof that the US did it?

    No.

    Circumstantial evidence?

    Pretty strong, I think.

    I note that, last I checked, the US has not disavowed responsibility.

    Replies: @Prester John

    , @MEH 0910
    @Redneck farmer

    https://twitter.com/gcochran99/status/1574793394051641344
    https://twitter.com/gcochran99/status/1574794636127657989

  113. @Che Blutarsky
    The booklet containing the great Polish diplomats is shorter than the one of Jewish sports legends in Airplane!.

    Replies: @Dube

    The booklet containing the great Polish diplomats is short….

    Your list? Don’t skip the 15th century, certainly including the author of The Accomplished Senator.

  114. @clifford brown
    @Ron Unz

    The Europeans seem to be legitimately shocked. The American media is treating this like a third tier story.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Rob

    From the POV of (non-Confederate) US, hasn’t every war we’ve fought (pre-Jewish ascendency) turned out swimmingly for us? Why would they not want a war?

    Europeans? Every time two European countries fought, one lost. They didn’t have tons of immigrant cannon fodder, so they lost sons and brothers. World Wars I and II destroyed their Empires and shattered any cultural confidence they had. This is both good, in that there’s less “let’s kill some Frenchmen for Der Kaiser,” and bad, in that there’s less of “let’s not give our country away to random backwash for imperial silliness.”

    On Mr. Anne Applebaum’s idea, what is the (certainly specious) reasoning that Nordstream 2 would let the Rush Inns push around Poland?

    “If” blowing up Nordstream 2 was us and if it gets the Germans to realize that their only real option is buying nuclear power from France, it could be the most environmentally friendly thing the Biden administration will do. They should buy from the French because realistically, who is better at it? Look at the engineering behind BMW’s laser beam headlights and say if you think they are the best choice for nuclear engineering.

    Wonder if Alternative for Deutschland will propose a) building nuclear capacity, or at least not breaking more of it, or b) trying Angela Merkel for genocide when “Syrian” migrants start freezing to death. Seriously, winter has historically been a harsh selection pressure in Europe.

    Over/under on the real international crisis? Girls in Persia want to let their hair down! I’m sure everyone in the White House wants to conquer the country to stop mandatory hair covering. Maybe after the midterms. A Republican Congress elected to curb crime and inflation will of course use their mandate and goodwill to give a lame duck D nation-building in the Mideast. We didn’t end two wars for nothing!

  115. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This thing is escalating, and whoever did hit the pipeline is evil.
     
    On the other hand, maybe it just burst. German engineering isn't what it used to be, and Russian engineering never was. Nord Stream may not be all that and a bag of сушки to begin with.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan, @PhysicistDave, @SonarBaltic, @Mr. Anon

    On the other hand, maybe it just burst.

    It’s not even being used right now. NS2 has never been used. Presumably it has some positive pressure of natgas in it just to provide some blanket pressure. The Swedes and Danes seem to think it was ruptured with explosives. The acoustic signature of a high-order explosion would be different than that of an over-pressure event.

  116. @Anon
    Hi from Tennessee. I'm afraid our nation are the new "bad guys" globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?

    The world's nations ate learning that its best to have as little to do with America as possible. We are dirty and we cheat.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Unz, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon

    I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now.

    We have been for awhile. We’re not the only ones. But our hands are far from clean.

  117. Is the pipeline fixable?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @TelfoedJohn

    Sure, but likely not instantly, so it's perhaps enough to persuade the Germans not to defect right now.

  118. @bob sykes
    This is an attack by a NATO country on Russian infrastructure. This is a major escalation. Some sort of Russian response is inevitable.

    The main victim is Germany. Can they submit to this aggression?

    Replies: @216

    Germans could start fracking, they could reopen their nuclear plants.

    But they won’t, they will just morally preen over Redstan like they always do.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @216

    Yes, this. The Germans haven't learned any lessons from this. They're just going to double down on their 'green' stupidity. (This really has become a surrogate religion for them, and like all religion it's not amenable to reason.)

  119. @Daniel H
    Let's establish an odds line, that will coalesce around whom the consensus will name the culprit (not necessarily THE culprit). I predict the consensus will blame it on the Russians. But Russians are clumsy with everything, could they have pulled this off without leaving definite evidence that it was they that did it? Something to consider, though, back in the 1980s the Swedes were always getting worked up over alleged trespass of Russian submarines on their territorial waters, but nothing was ever proved that Russia was trespassing. Could Russians be much better at submarining than we have all anticipated?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Pericles

    back in the 1980s the Swedes were always getting worked up over alleged trespass of Russian submarines on their territorial waters, but nothing was ever proved that Russia was trespassing.

    Possibly excepting Russian sub U137 running aground near a Swedish naval base in Karlskrona (1981).

  120. @TelfoedJohn
    Is the pipeline fixable?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Sure, but likely not instantly, so it’s perhaps enough to persuade the Germans not to defect right now.

  121. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    Who … did it? Who gains? Who profits? Who loses? I honestly can’t suss it out. It seems bad for Russia, Germany, the United States, and Ukraine. This is three dimensional chess with a triple bank shot thrown in.

    Has the media reported on how hard this would be? How deep is the pipeline? Could a small terrorist operation handle it, or is it nation-state difficult?

    Submarine fiber optic cables are more armored and buried near to the coasts and more vulnerable in open water. How about this pipeline?

    At any rate, I’m selling my stock in Space Elevator, Inc.: $500 trillion, and then a bomb could send it flying into the sun!

    • Replies: @clifford brown
    @Anon

    SPECTRE GAINS.

  122. @J.Ross
    @Daniel H

    They would truly be the masters of submarining to submarine there, it's too shallow. And right under US ships? (When they could just turn the damn thing off?) But I agree that the lyingpress filth will soon confidently declare it could only have been evil Russians.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    They would truly be the masters of submarining to submarine there, it’s too shallow.

    Some of the incidents in Sweden involved underwater tracked vehicles.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  123. @PiltdownMan
    @PhysicistDave


    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.
     
    I should have made my question clearer, PhysicistDave. Sorry about that.

    Do these underwater gas leaks burn when they reach the surface and mix with the air? Or is the natural gas/air mixture to dilute to reliably stay alight?

    Also, Is there any environmental advantage to now deliberately setting this leak aflame if it will burn? CO2 is less of a greenhouse gas than methane, IIRC.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    PiltdownMan wrote to me:

    Do these underwater gas leaks burn when they reach the surface and mix with the air? Or is the natural gas/air mixture to dilute to reliably stay alight

    Well, it will not spontaneously combust: something would have have to light it.

    My guess is that, once lit, it would probably keep burning: you see the pictures, and there’s an awful lot of this stuff bubbling up. But it is possible that one bubble breaks here and another breaks there and it is not continuous in one spot.

    I think we need a petroleum engineer or maybe a chemical engineer to give a definitive answer.

    Anyone around?

    PD also wrote:

    Also, Is there any environmental advantage to now deliberately setting this leak aflame if it will burn? CO2 is less of a greenhouse gas than methane, IIRC.

    Yeah, methane is a nasty greenhouse gas; CO2 is relatively mild.

    On the other hand, it is a very big planet: my guess is these leaks are a pretty small contribution on the global scale.

    Of course, it depends on what the Russians do: I assume they are turning off the gas on their end, which means the pipelines will eventually fill with seawater — which is not good.

    This thing is going to be a real mess.

    Anyway, your and my guesses are in sync, but we need a petroleum engineer to give us definitive answers.

  124. While Swedish media this year seldom miss an opportunity for another insane, frothing rant against Putin, the media Nordstream reports I’ve seen so far have been studiously neutral about causes. Also, the Swedish and Danish authorities seem suspiciously relaxed about what has happened. I mean, it’s not every day that a natural gas pipeline gets blown up right by your coast, yet little sign of armed forces getting out. It’s all quite curious.

    As I see it, with friends like these, who needs enemies?

  125. @Rob McX
    Totally OT, but a bit of light relief is in order. Rachel Dolezal is on OnlyFans, a bargain at $10 a month. Sneak preview here, for those with the stomach for it.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/27/17/62852007-11255187-image-a-14_1664297381344.jpg

    Replies: @AndrewR, @R.G. Camara, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Yancey Ward, @IHTG

    In the words of Zero HP Lovecraft: “She could lose weight.”

  126. @Redneck farmer
    @PhysicistDave

    You don't need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country's navy running interference while carrying it out.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @MEH 0910

    Redneck farmer wrote to me

    :You don’t need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country’s navy running interference while carrying it out.

    Well… you actually have to find the pipeline. And, then, I don’t think it is as simple as just dropping a depth charge n the vicinity: you have to get pretty close.

    Could the Royal Navy do it? Sure. Any company that does deep-sea work? Probably.

    Zelensky? I don’t think Ukraine today is up to running this kind of operation a few thousand miles (vai sea lanes) from home.

    Anyway, if Zelensky did it, why not take credit? It would be a morale booster.

    On the other hand, if the US Deep State did it, owning up to it publicly would almost guarantee Russian retaliation. And, from the Deep State viewpoint, having the Russians thinking that maybe it was Ukraine makes sense.

    Proof that the US did it?

    No.

    Circumstantial evidence?

    Pretty strong, I think.

    I note that, last I checked, the US has not disavowed responsibility.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    @PhysicistDave

    Last night Tucker aired two sets of comments made awhile back --one from Biden and the other from the ultra-neocon Victoria Nuland--both referring to the possibility of taking out the pipeline. Did they give the game away early? Dunno. If the US (read: Langley) did it, they probably used surrogates (UK? Poland?) but Russia knows who's really pushing the buttons, so they don't need an admission of responsibility from the US.

    My fear now is that they will retaliate. When/where is up to them--they've been at this game far longer than we have-- but am dreading what form it will take and how many will suffer.

  127. @James Braxton
    @clifford brown

    No court of law has found fraud in the Donbas elections, therefore this sort of election denialism by NPR and their ilk should be flagged as misinformation.

    Replies: @hhsiii

    No court of law found OJ guilty.

    Is that like “no true Scotsmen…”. What court of law is hearing this “Donbas elections, fair or unfair” lawsuit? Are they accepting amicus briefs?

  128. @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.
     
    That's my take. If the US did it, it seems stupid.

    I get that without Nordstream the Russians can only continue to export to the West through the pipeline through Ukraine--ergo they must keep supplying Ukraine.

    But the downside--pretty huge--is if there is not enough gas--even if the Russians simply decide to cut it off--the freezing Germans will be blaming the US.

    ~~~

    What's ridiculous here is the dependency. You don't let yourself be dependent upon one particular potentially hostile foreign country for something as basic as energy. If you don't have adequate resources yourself, then be dependent on a fungible commodity--i.e. oil--that you can get from multiple sources.

    But also get you head out of your ass and work to mitigate your dependency. But instead of building out a nuclear infrastructure like the French, the Germans are shutting their nukes down. They aren't "green".

    The German stupidity is particularly glaring, but the US, under the Wall Street--"it's just a big marketplace!"--regime has done this too. GM not being about to build pickups with chips from China (or maybe it's Taiwan, don't know). But producing something as basic as a working truck being upended by nonsense going on in the China-sphere. C'mon.

    Fortunately, we're just in a better situation energy wise.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Mr. Anon, @Cagey Beast

    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.
     
    Your comment just outlines precisely the problem.

    I happen to disagree with you on the core of the Ukraine issue. To me, the core problem is Putin's nostalgic pining for/entitled to "Great Russia" and sense of himself as the Czar, a big swinging dick, while most Ukrainians look at the rise in living standards in Poland and $$$ from the EU and want that. (I think that's all pretty obvious in fact.)

    But regardless ... why in heck would you want your energy supply to be dependent on ensuring "peace, order and good government" in some foreign nation--much less Ukraine, LOL.

    Sound energy policy != dependent upon a single foreign nation, relations with which depend upon their relationship with a 3rd nation.

    And if you're lucky and thread the needle on Ukraine this year, your energy is still dependent on not offending the Russians next year in ... Georgia, or Armenia or Belarus or the Balkans or Turkmenistan or some conflict with China or ... or ... You're a puppet.

    It's one thing where you have a dependency--say Germany depended upon France--that is part of a broad and deep interdependency. They can jack you around a little ... but have severe constraints. Worse if the inter-dependency. is weaker, say Germany with the US--then you start having to dance to their tune. Much worse when there is basically no reverse dependency on you by the foreign country (the only dependency Russia has on Germany is the desire to sell gas). Much less with a nation as politically chaotic as Russia with historical "issues" with your nation. Then if you are dependent, they can jack you around over whatever issue.

    Dependency--is bad. Single source dependency on something as vital as energy--you're not free.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    , @Jack D
    @Cagey Beast

    As AD says, your argument refutes itself - what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the "correct" policy (in your supplier's judgment) toward a 3rd country?

    2nd, Putin had no interest in "a neutral and federated Ukraine" - he wanted a Ukraine that was AT BEST Finlandized (instead he got a Finland that was NATO-ized, but never mind) but ideally a Russian puppet state - more like Belarus than Finland.

    At the beginning of this war, Roman Abramovich tried to set up negotiations between Zelensky and Putin as an "honest broker" since he (thought he) had good relationships with both men. Well - Putin slipped a bit of poison to Abramovich - not enough to kill him, just enough to make him really sick. The message was "I don't want any honest brokers. Don't try that 'honest broker" crap ever again." "Neutral" in the old Finland sense meant emasculated - the Finns were always very careful never to do anything that would piss off Moscow. Even their press was controlled such that insulting Moscow was not allowed.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Hunsdon

  129. @Redneck farmer
    @PhysicistDave

    You don't need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country's navy running interference while carrying it out.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @MEH 0910

  130. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @AndrewR

    Seriously, "Anglo" countries. The idea that a bunch of WASPs are running our foreign policy is beyond childish. You know exactly who runs the show and it's not Anglo Christians.

    Do better.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    You know I know who’s running the show, and you know I didn’t imply otherwise. You’re being purposefully obtuse.

    Do better.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @AndrewR

    Then be more clear when you write. Many readers actually still believe US foreign policy is run by a bunch of Ivy League WASPs.

  131. @Hypnotoad666
    @clifford brown

    My Google News feed had literally NOTHING on this story (but it had something on Tom Brady and Gisselle getting along better). This coordinated MSM silence speaks volumes of course about who did this.

    Luckily, our man Tucker was all over it. One highlight at about the 5:45 mark is Victoria Nuland on tape during congressional testimony pledging that "one way or another" the U.S. would put an end to Nordstream II.

    https://youtu.be/-Zeadc4pQAw

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Bingo. The same Jews media that stops the presses if Putin sneezes is dead silent about this game changing terrorist attack. We know EXACTLY who did it.

    • Agree: Father Coughlin
  132. @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    not covering the explosion

    …….a bit of a tell ,wouldn’t you say.

  133. @Cagey Beast
    If Washington did this, the German people will blame what happens to them this winter on America.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @AndrewR

    Hostility towards the US is nothing new in Germany. I take no joy in predicting that I don’t see Germans throwing off their shackles no matter how hard the whippings get.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  134. CIA/US military operation 100 percent.

    When do the bunkers in western Maryland and upstate New York open up. Doesn’t Russia have the largest strategic nuclear arsenal in the world?

  135. I think the culprit is the same guy who leaked the Dobbs opinion. They Supreme Court is on hiatus this week. Mere coincidence?

  136. @PhysicistDave
    @PiltdownMan

    PiltdownMan asked:


    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that’s necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?
     

    No, you need an oxidizing agent (like oxygen!) to burn. These pipelines are underwater. Water is not an oxidizing agent.

    I'm assuming you are asking if a spark could have caused the breaks.

    Now, once the gas breaks the surface, oh yeah, it will burn. I'd think the fire would be self-sustaining once started.

    Should make quite a show.

    Might be a good idea, in fact: methane is an intense greenhouse gas, much worse than CO2. Burn methane and you just get CO2 and water.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, Physicist, but now Engineer, Dave, do you have an idea of how long this methane will be pouring out into the sea and the air? Besides being an act of war by (I would agree) the Potomac Regime, it’s the tremendous waste that pissed me off about this too. Bear with me, because it’s been a while since I’ve thought about some of this:

    Each of the 2 pipes* in the line are 45.4″ ID with a thickness is 1.5″. (i.e., Thin-Walled) The working pressure was to be 3.2 ksi.** I just read that the line had no flow, but 11 billion cubic feet of gas in it, ready for delivery. Based on the length and ID, that is ~40 million cubic ft of internal volume x 2 pipes so 80 million total, meaning the gas is at 130-140 atmospheres or ~2.o ksi pressure.

    This is the interesting part. With the simple Pr/t formula, I get a 30 ksi tangential stress in the steel pipe, were it not underwater under external pressure. Wiki says the depth is 260 – 360 ft, but that’d vary and that might be the deepest. Even in 300 ft of water, the external pressure would be only 10 atm, so pretty insignificant in lowering the stress or the flow rate out though a leak. (Also, the leak was mentioned to be in shallower water than that.)

    There’s concrete casing around it that’s not for structure but for weighing down the pipeline. This is also interesting, as that gas at its designed working pressure of 220 atm, has significant weight, but it and the steel must not be heavy enough against buoyancy. That’d be an easy calculation, but you can’t get quite away with using the natural gas law – one interpolation has the density around 10-15 lbm/ft^3, so 120-180 lb per linear foot. The steel would be about 735 lb/ft. A 1 ft. plug of water the size of that pipe weighs (almost incompressible, so not much different than sea level) coincidentally about 700 lb. The pipe would barely sink with nothing in it and no casing. I assume they install these sealed to the ocean(?) (It looked as if that might be the case in some guy’s video above.)

    All that was fun but neither here nor there, as far as the leak goes. It obviously depends on how big a hole the explosives made. Could the Russians let the gas back flow to save some of the gas? I do realize that’s not the major point here.

    Finally, no, I doubt anyone in his right, non-virtual-signalling, mind really cares about this methane exacerbating the Climate Crisis™. That doesn’t make the whole thing any less hypocritical in that sense though.

    .

    * Both NS1 and NS2 have a pair of pipes.

    ** What I know can’t find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.

    • Replies: @Paul Rise
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The methane release here has every potential to increase temperatures in the near term, certainly in northern Europe. This has been obvious since Deepwater Horizon and the weather across the gulf coast the following summer.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What I know can’t find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.
     
    I can't tell you exactly but based upon the maps published, the leaks are in maybe the last 15% or so of the lines - almost at their landing point. Doing a rough approximation from google maps, maybe 90 miles from the terminus for Stream #2 and 125 miles for #1.

    https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/ENERGY/egpbkzkqqvq/

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  137. It was done directly or indirectly by the U.S., in practice perhaps by Poles or Ukrainians or who cares. Is it really a coincidence that it happened the same day that the Donbass referendum ended, with a majority of the people wanting to become Russian?

    (Of course, the few pro-Ukranians who lived in that region left long ago, and why would anyone want to be part of the Ukraine these days? Imagine if the “Ukraine won”, what will happen to these people, will all be deported to Russia, like the millions of Germans in Czechoslovakia were deported after WWII?).

  138. Russians are no better than Ukrainians or Anglo ZOG. But good people around the world share a common enemy with the Russian government. And I really am disgusted with Sailer for siding with the Jewish government of the breakaway Russian province known as Ukraine.

  139. @Ron Unz
    @Anon


    Hi from Tennessee. I’m afraid our nation are the new “bad guys” globally now. US ships were seen speeding away from the area and seismologists in Sweeden and Denmark detected a couple of explosions. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if China, Russia, or Iran destroyed a US pipeline?
     
    I'd say we've begun mistreating our NATO "allies" even worse than the USSR did the members of the Warsaw Pact. Our total media control allows us to do this, but at some point it may stop working.

    It may be a very difficult winter for many Europeans.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @clifford brown, @Paul Rise

    How much methane and other greenhouse gas has been released by these breaks?

    In all likelihood the late winter in northern Europe at least will be much warmer than normal. I wonder how hot the spring will be?

  140. @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don’t think so!
     
    Alternative hypothesis: One of our SEAL teams finally got to put its BUDs training to use with some actual underwater demolition.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Brutusale

    This was a perfect situation for the Special Boat Service, a capable group that flies under the radar when compared to the publicity-hound SEALS.

  141. @Achmed E. Newman
    @PhysicistDave

    OK, Physicist, but now Engineer, Dave, do you have an idea of how long this methane will be pouring out into the sea and the air? Besides being an act of war by (I would agree) the Potomac Regime, it's the tremendous waste that pissed me off about this too. Bear with me, because it's been a while since I've thought about some of this:

    Each of the 2 pipes* in the line are 45.4" ID with a thickness is 1.5". (i.e., Thin-Walled) The working pressure was to be 3.2 ksi.** I just read that the line had no flow, but 11 billion cubic feet of gas in it, ready for delivery. Based on the length and ID, that is ~40 million cubic ft of internal volume x 2 pipes so 80 million total, meaning the gas is at 130-140 atmospheres or ~2.o ksi pressure.

    This is the interesting part. With the simple Pr/t formula, I get a 30 ksi tangential stress in the steel pipe, were it not underwater under external pressure. Wiki says the depth is 260 - 360 ft, but that'd vary and that might be the deepest. Even in 300 ft of water, the external pressure would be only 10 atm, so pretty insignificant in lowering the stress or the flow rate out though a leak. (Also, the leak was mentioned to be in shallower water than that.)

    There's concrete casing around it that's not for structure but for weighing down the pipeline. This is also interesting, as that gas at its designed working pressure of 220 atm, has significant weight, but it and the steel must not be heavy enough against buoyancy. That'd be an easy calculation, but you can't get quite away with using the natural gas law - one interpolation has the density around 10-15 lbm/ft^3, so 120-180 lb per linear foot. The steel would be about 735 lb/ft. A 1 ft. plug of water the size of that pipe weighs (almost incompressible, so not much different than sea level) coincidentally about 700 lb. The pipe would barely sink with nothing in it and no casing. I assume they install these sealed to the ocean(?) (It looked as if that might be the case in some guy's video above.)

    All that was fun but neither here nor there, as far as the leak goes. It obviously depends on how big a hole the explosives made. Could the Russians let the gas back flow to save some of the gas? I do realize that's not the major point here.

    Finally, no, I doubt anyone in his right, non-virtual-signalling, mind really cares about this methane exacerbating the Climate Crisis™. That doesn't make the whole thing any less hypocritical in that sense though.


    .

    * Both NS1 and NS2 have a pair of pipes.

    ** What I know can't find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.

    Replies: @Paul Rise, @Jack D

    The methane release here has every potential to increase temperatures in the near term, certainly in northern Europe. This has been obvious since Deepwater Horizon and the weather across the gulf coast the following summer.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Paul Rise

    Maybe you missed that comment on the other thread in which I brought up the number 1 in 10,000,000,000. That is the additional proportion of methane (and other gasses) released if the whole pipeline full of it goes into the atmosphere. Let's just pick a number like 3% (out of my rear end) that is the atmosphere over northern Europe, and somehow that methane remained in that location, winds aloft be damned.

    You'd have an additional concentration of 1 in 300 million or so. Plus, the Earth's climate as modeled by an energy balance doesn't really operate on a localized level like that. If you went in another direction and burned all 11 billion cubic feet of the stuff, how much energy would you put into the atmosphere over northern Europe?

    I'll leave that to you, Paul, with some direction. Find the upper heating value of a cubic ft of natural gas, multiply that amount of energy by 11 billion, then work out how much warmer on average that would make a 3 mile (15,800 ft) layer of gas (just use nitrogen - that's nearly 80% of it) x the area of northern Europe. I'm guessing your change in F will have a few zeros in front of it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  142. @AndrewR
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You know I know who's running the show, and you know I didn't imply otherwise. You're being purposefully obtuse.

    Do better.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Then be more clear when you write. Many readers actually still believe US foreign policy is run by a bunch of Ivy League WASPs.

  143. I have no idea what is going on.

    Russia is famous for being gifted in “deception operations.” Deserved? Undeserved? I don’t know for sure, but there is the reputation. Zelensky’s team comes from the media production world, and they have the Great and the Good of the West entirely on board with them.

    I am broadly sympathetic to Russia, while hoping that JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union, and while hoping for a negotiated settlement that minimizes the death toll.

    I mostly refrain from commenting overly much because, as I indicated above, I had no idea what is actually going on.

    We’ll see, I guess. Eventually.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hunsdon

    JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union:


    The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.
     
    - Vladimir Putin

    I take him at his word.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hunsdon

  144. @Jack D
    @Pop Warner

    Anne Applebaum is a certified deep sea diver. Coincidence? I don't think so!

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Prester John

    She wrote “Red Famine”, a detailed account of the Holodomor, so when it comes to the Ukraine you know whose side she is on. It has to be said though that in the process she called out the NYT and the feckless Walter Duranty.

  145. @PhysicistDave
    @Redneck farmer

    Redneck farmer wrote to me


    :You don’t need a navy for an attack like this. Just a freighter with a crane.
    And it helps to have another country’s navy running interference while carrying it out.
     
    Well... you actually have to find the pipeline. And, then, I don't think it is as simple as just dropping a depth charge n the vicinity: you have to get pretty close.

    Could the Royal Navy do it? Sure. Any company that does deep-sea work? Probably.

    Zelensky? I don't think Ukraine today is up to running this kind of operation a few thousand miles (vai sea lanes) from home.

    Anyway, if Zelensky did it, why not take credit? It would be a morale booster.

    On the other hand, if the US Deep State did it, owning up to it publicly would almost guarantee Russian retaliation. And, from the Deep State viewpoint, having the Russians thinking that maybe it was Ukraine makes sense.

    Proof that the US did it?

    No.

    Circumstantial evidence?

    Pretty strong, I think.

    I note that, last I checked, the US has not disavowed responsibility.

    Replies: @Prester John

    Last night Tucker aired two sets of comments made awhile back –one from Biden and the other from the ultra-neocon Victoria Nuland–both referring to the possibility of taking out the pipeline. Did they give the game away early? Dunno. If the US (read: Langley) did it, they probably used surrogates (UK? Poland?) but Russia knows who’s really pushing the buttons, so they don’t need an admission of responsibility from the US.

    My fear now is that they will retaliate. When/where is up to them–they’ve been at this game far longer than we have– but am dreading what form it will take and how many will suffer.

  146. @Yarro1
    If Russia did it:
    --it's a way for Putin to lock his successor into conflict with the West
    --it's a warning against Norway and the West (on the very day that a new gas pipeline from Norway to Poland opened, giving Poland gas independence)
    --it's a signal that "we're all in now"

    If the West did it:
    --it's a warning to Putin that we can also hit him hard (i.e., don't use nukes)
    --it's a way to make sure Russia doesn't back down, so that we can finish it off once and for all. It seemed we beat them fair and square in the Cold War... now they want a rematch?

    A minor episode in Russian history I came across today:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide

    Replies: @Thirdtwin

    Or, if the West did it:

    It’s a desperate, spiteful dick move which furthers no Western strategic interest and makes NATO members seriously question what they have gotten themselves into, when their own alliance is doing more damage to its members and wannabe members than to Russia.

  147. Anybody remember the Tonkin Gulf? The USS Maddox? Anybody?

  148. @216
    @bob sykes

    Germans could start fracking, they could reopen their nuclear plants.

    But they won't, they will just morally preen over Redstan like they always do.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Yes, this. The Germans haven’t learned any lessons from this. They’re just going to double down on their ‘green’ stupidity. (This really has become a surrogate religion for them, and like all religion it’s not amenable to reason.)

    • Troll: Corvinus
  149. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1675074/Nord-Stream-news-leak-diveable-zone-russia-underwater-drones-expert/amp

    Russia has underwater drones capable of blowing up their pipelines according the the experts...The experts failed to mention that Ukraine also has underwater drones with the same ability to destroy the pipelines.
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/27/uk-to-give-ukraine-underwater-mine-clearing-drones-and-training

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    And how, pray tell, would the Ukrainians have managed to place their underwater drones in the Baltic Sea? It’s a very long sea voyage to the area of the explosions via the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Gdańsk perhaps.

  150. @Chris Mallory
    @Anon

    Po' lil Germany dindu nuffin.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin

    Correct. “Nuffin” that wasnt already well into the mix in the history of ideas for 50-150 years or more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism#History

  151. @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th “Attacks”.

    So they’ve gone from riots to attacks? Give it a few months and it’ll be the “January 6th Massacre.”

    The narrative is self-reinforcing. When the neocons get their war with Russia, they left will invoke January 6th as the reason they must clamp down on Trump Extremists (the 20s version of 5th Columnists). Enemy without, enemy within.

  152. I expect some sort of AUMF-type resolution against Russia before the 2022 midterms which makes any anti-war talk, like on UNZ, treason, and then have (((Christopher Wray’s))) FBI sic’ em. Of course they wouldn’t have the balls to just have Congress declare war on Russia and Belarus.

    • Agree: Wokechoke
  153. @Kratoklastes
    @SafeNow


    Putin would need to prove it.
     
    In what forum, and to what end?

    If the Russian Federation uses this as a casus belli, it won't be seeking UN Security Council approval. The US has a veto, and would not abstain. The US does not recognise the ICC or the ICJ as having jurisdiction.

    What will happen will be the 'old-fashioned' way à la 1939, adapted for 'working from home': kind of like 'shuttle diplomacy' by Zoom.

    Blinken (and Macron, and Scholz) will plead innocence and ignorance; Lavrov will make it clear that it is the position of the Russian Federation that they are all lying, as befits representatives of the Empire of Lies and that the Russian Federation is unwilling to negotiate further because the Empire of Lies is institutionally недоговороспособны ("non-agreement-capable").

    Lavrov will further elaborate: the спецоперация ("special operation") in Ukraine is now a counter-terrorism action similar to the one that US conducted in Afghanistan (the US made it clear that it was going into Afghanistan whether it got UNSC backing or not).

    To reprise Dubya: in the War on Terrrrrrrrr, the entire world is the battlespace.

    Welcome to "Reap What You Sow, Motherfuckers".

    The US Death Machine had its high-V bullshitting retards confect a new "international rules-based order" that ignored established international legal norms - on invasion, torture, imprisonment-without-trial, extrajudicial assassination and a bunch of other things.

    "Them thar new rules" are going to comprise the putative legal basis for Russia's actions.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Lavrov will further elaborate: the спецоперация (“special operation”) in Ukraine is now a counter-terrorism action

    Special operation – it’s a mouthwash! it’s a cake frosting!

    The stated pretexts for the “special operation” have already changed at least 5 or 6 times so one or two more won’t hurt.

    You forgot to mention that as a result of the “referendums” the Russian occupied areas of Ukraine are now part of the territory of Russia, so therefore Russia is now fighting a DEFENSIVE war on its own territory and Ukraine is the aggressor.

    Lavrov can use all the pretzel logic he wants but it’s not going to change reality.

  154. @Hunsdon
    I have no idea what is going on.

    Russia is famous for being gifted in "deception operations." Deserved? Undeserved? I don't know for sure, but there is the reputation. Zelensky's team comes from the media production world, and they have the Great and the Good of the West entirely on board with them.

    I am broadly sympathetic to Russia, while hoping that JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union, and while hoping for a negotiated settlement that minimizes the death toll.

    I mostly refrain from commenting overly much because, as I indicated above, I had no idea what is actually going on.

    We'll see, I guess. Eventually.

    Replies: @Jack D

    JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union:

    The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.

    – Vladimir Putin

    I take him at his word.

    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
    @Jack D

    JackD is doing ...
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance
    of ....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_power_(international_relations)#:~:text=The%20balance%20of%20power%20theory,power%20to%20dominate%20all%20others.

    ps State Dept. issues warning to US citizens to leave Russia immediately:
    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/moscow-russia-embassy/2022/09/28/id/1089408

    , @Hunsdon
    @Jack D

    Jack:

    My divorce was one of the greatest geopolitical catastrophes of my life. I'm not looking to remarry my ex-wife.

    Also, you neatly truncated my comment in your response. I didn't say you were entirely mistaken, I said I hoped you were entirely mistaken. From a less careful poster, I would assume it was simply an oversight.

  155. @Achmed E. Newman
    @PhysicistDave

    OK, Physicist, but now Engineer, Dave, do you have an idea of how long this methane will be pouring out into the sea and the air? Besides being an act of war by (I would agree) the Potomac Regime, it's the tremendous waste that pissed me off about this too. Bear with me, because it's been a while since I've thought about some of this:

    Each of the 2 pipes* in the line are 45.4" ID with a thickness is 1.5". (i.e., Thin-Walled) The working pressure was to be 3.2 ksi.** I just read that the line had no flow, but 11 billion cubic feet of gas in it, ready for delivery. Based on the length and ID, that is ~40 million cubic ft of internal volume x 2 pipes so 80 million total, meaning the gas is at 130-140 atmospheres or ~2.o ksi pressure.

    This is the interesting part. With the simple Pr/t formula, I get a 30 ksi tangential stress in the steel pipe, were it not underwater under external pressure. Wiki says the depth is 260 - 360 ft, but that'd vary and that might be the deepest. Even in 300 ft of water, the external pressure would be only 10 atm, so pretty insignificant in lowering the stress or the flow rate out though a leak. (Also, the leak was mentioned to be in shallower water than that.)

    There's concrete casing around it that's not for structure but for weighing down the pipeline. This is also interesting, as that gas at its designed working pressure of 220 atm, has significant weight, but it and the steel must not be heavy enough against buoyancy. That'd be an easy calculation, but you can't get quite away with using the natural gas law - one interpolation has the density around 10-15 lbm/ft^3, so 120-180 lb per linear foot. The steel would be about 735 lb/ft. A 1 ft. plug of water the size of that pipe weighs (almost incompressible, so not much different than sea level) coincidentally about 700 lb. The pipe would barely sink with nothing in it and no casing. I assume they install these sealed to the ocean(?) (It looked as if that might be the case in some guy's video above.)

    All that was fun but neither here nor there, as far as the leak goes. It obviously depends on how big a hole the explosives made. Could the Russians let the gas back flow to save some of the gas? I do realize that's not the major point here.

    Finally, no, I doubt anyone in his right, non-virtual-signalling, mind really cares about this methane exacerbating the Climate Crisis™. That doesn't make the whole thing any less hypocritical in that sense though.


    .

    * Both NS1 and NS2 have a pair of pipes.

    ** What I know can't find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.

    Replies: @Paul Rise, @Jack D

    What I know can’t find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.

    I can’t tell you exactly but based upon the maps published, the leaks are in maybe the last 15% or so of the lines – almost at their landing point. Doing a rough approximation from google maps, maybe 90 miles from the terminus for Stream #2 and 125 miles for #1.

    https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/ENERGY/egpbkzkqqvq/

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Thanks, Jack. That was some laziness on my part. I like maps, but I didn't go searching long for one that showed the whole pipeline - odd hour of the day. I see where Bornholm island is, and yes, that's most of the way down the line west.

  156. @J.Ross
    It could well have been Poland -- Poland has the means and motive, and their own pipeline alternative they want Germany to sign on to -- but it could not have been done without US permission, especially with the Kearsarge right there.
    Or maybe there were three catastrophic ruptures at the same time because of climate change.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Chrisnonymous

    Or maybe the methane is just sea cows…

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sea+cow&ia=images&iax=images

    Time for great whites to switch to soy!!

  157. @Anon
    Who … did it? Who gains? Who profits? Who loses? I honestly can’t suss it out. It seems bad for Russia, Germany, the United States, and Ukraine. This is three dimensional chess with a triple bank shot thrown in.

    Has the media reported on how hard this would be? How deep is the pipeline? Could a small terrorist operation handle it, or is it nation-state difficult?

    Submarine fiber optic cables are more armored and buried near to the coasts and more vulnerable in open water. How about this pipeline?

    At any rate, I’m selling my stock in Space Elevator, Inc.: $500 trillion, and then a bomb could send it flying into the sun!

    Replies: @clifford brown

    SPECTRE GAINS.

  158. @Jack D
    @Hunsdon

    JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union:


    The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.
     
    - Vladimir Putin

    I take him at his word.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hunsdon

  159. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What I know can’t find is how far the leaks are down the 759 mile or 767 mile (NS1/NS2) pipes. I was about to calculate how long it would take to flush the pipe with air or nitrogen, or whatever.
     
    I can't tell you exactly but based upon the maps published, the leaks are in maybe the last 15% or so of the lines - almost at their landing point. Doing a rough approximation from google maps, maybe 90 miles from the terminus for Stream #2 and 125 miles for #1.

    https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/ENERGY/egpbkzkqqvq/

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, Jack. That was some laziness on my part. I like maps, but I didn’t go searching long for one that showed the whole pipeline – odd hour of the day. I see where Bornholm island is, and yes, that’s most of the way down the line west.

  160. @clifford brown
    The US government is a threat to of all humanity. Literal terrorists.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    At the Common Ground Fair, Veteran’s for Peace were giving out bumper stickers “US Militarism Fuels Climate Crisis.”

    I took one, cut out the word “Climate” and stuck the rest of it on my guitar case.

  161. @Cagey Beast
    @AnotherDad

    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Jack D

    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.

    Your comment just outlines precisely the problem.

    I happen to disagree with you on the core of the Ukraine issue. To me, the core problem is Putin’s nostalgic pining for/entitled to “Great Russia” and sense of himself as the Czar, a big swinging dick, while most Ukrainians look at the rise in living standards in Poland and $$$ from the EU and want that. (I think that’s all pretty obvious in fact.)

    But regardless … why in heck would you want your energy supply to be dependent on ensuring “peace, order and good government” in some foreign nation–much less Ukraine, LOL.

    Sound energy policy != dependent upon a single foreign nation, relations with which depend upon their relationship with a 3rd nation.

    And if you’re lucky and thread the needle on Ukraine this year, your energy is still dependent on not offending the Russians next year in … Georgia, or Armenia or Belarus or the Balkans or Turkmenistan or some conflict with China or … or … You’re a puppet.

    It’s one thing where you have a dependency–say Germany depended upon France–that is part of a broad and deep interdependency. They can jack you around a little … but have severe constraints. Worse if the inter-dependency. is weaker, say Germany with the US–then you start having to dance to their tune. Much worse when there is basically no reverse dependency on you by the foreign country (the only dependency Russia has on Germany is the desire to sell gas). Much less with a nation as politically chaotic as Russia with historical “issues” with your nation. Then if you are dependent, they can jack you around over whatever issue.

    Dependency–is bad. Single source dependency on something as vital as energy–you’re not free.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @AnotherDad

    We may as well ask why people living near the Caribbean and Gulf would want to be dependent on hurricane preparedness. Geography decided for them. Germany not helping the US and EU monkey around in Ukraine would be far easier than preventing hurricane damage on the Gulf coast.

    If the Germans want a nearby source of cheap and reliable energy then they're dependent on Russian petroleum products. What other sources could compete with Russian pipeline fuels? If they wanted to opt out of that they could have scaled down their industries and gone hog wild with nuclear. They did neither.

  162. @PiltdownMan
    Idle questions.

    Do these things catch fire? A spark from a nearby boat is [probably all that's necessary. Is it better if the gas is burnt off? Or does it make no difference?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Herbert R. Tarlek, Jr.

    Do these things catch fire?

    This is essentially the aquatic version of the Darvaza gas crater. I’m not a petroleum engineer or anything, but I see no reason that this couldn’t catch fire, at least above the surface of the water where large amounts of free oxygen are available. It’s essentially a giant version of a burner on your gas stove that’s been turned on, but with no pilot light–yet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater

  163. @AnotherDad
    @Cagey Beast


    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.
     
    Your comment just outlines precisely the problem.

    I happen to disagree with you on the core of the Ukraine issue. To me, the core problem is Putin's nostalgic pining for/entitled to "Great Russia" and sense of himself as the Czar, a big swinging dick, while most Ukrainians look at the rise in living standards in Poland and $$$ from the EU and want that. (I think that's all pretty obvious in fact.)

    But regardless ... why in heck would you want your energy supply to be dependent on ensuring "peace, order and good government" in some foreign nation--much less Ukraine, LOL.

    Sound energy policy != dependent upon a single foreign nation, relations with which depend upon their relationship with a 3rd nation.

    And if you're lucky and thread the needle on Ukraine this year, your energy is still dependent on not offending the Russians next year in ... Georgia, or Armenia or Belarus or the Balkans or Turkmenistan or some conflict with China or ... or ... You're a puppet.

    It's one thing where you have a dependency--say Germany depended upon France--that is part of a broad and deep interdependency. They can jack you around a little ... but have severe constraints. Worse if the inter-dependency. is weaker, say Germany with the US--then you start having to dance to their tune. Much worse when there is basically no reverse dependency on you by the foreign country (the only dependency Russia has on Germany is the desire to sell gas). Much less with a nation as politically chaotic as Russia with historical "issues" with your nation. Then if you are dependent, they can jack you around over whatever issue.

    Dependency--is bad. Single source dependency on something as vital as energy--you're not free.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    We may as well ask why people living near the Caribbean and Gulf would want to be dependent on hurricane preparedness. Geography decided for them. Germany not helping the US and EU monkey around in Ukraine would be far easier than preventing hurricane damage on the Gulf coast.

    If the Germans want a nearby source of cheap and reliable energy then they’re dependent on Russian petroleum products. What other sources could compete with Russian pipeline fuels? If they wanted to opt out of that they could have scaled down their industries and gone hog wild with nuclear. They did neither.

  164. @BosTex
    @Pop Warner

    I googled Anne Applebaum and I feel bad for the guy.

    Jack: as far her being a diver: no way, the nose wouldn’t fit in the mask.

    (Not making an anti-Semitic observation: the broad has a big nose).

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy

    That name always makes me think of this:

  165. @Cagey Beast
    @AnotherDad

    The Germans could have happily continued to depend on Russian gas, as long as they helped ensure peace, order and good government in Ukraine. Instead they enthusiastically participated in the Great Game to turn Ukraine against Russia and toward the US/EU/NATO blob.

    If the Germans had worked for a neutral and federated Ukraine then cheap and reliable Russian gas would still be flowing.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Jack D

    As AD says, your argument refutes itself – what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country?

    2nd, Putin had no interest in “a neutral and federated Ukraine” – he wanted a Ukraine that was AT BEST Finlandized (instead he got a Finland that was NATO-ized, but never mind) but ideally a Russian puppet state – more like Belarus than Finland.

    At the beginning of this war, Roman Abramovich tried to set up negotiations between Zelensky and Putin as an “honest broker” since he (thought he) had good relationships with both men. Well – Putin slipped a bit of poison to Abramovich – not enough to kill him, just enough to make him really sick. The message was “I don’t want any honest brokers. Don’t try that ‘honest broker” crap ever again.” “Neutral” in the old Finland sense meant emasculated – the Finns were always very careful never to do anything that would piss off Moscow. Even their press was controlled such that insulting Moscow was not allowed.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Jack D

    " [...] what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country?"

    It's not about the danger of the Russians punishing Germany for having the wrong policy on Ukraine, it's about the US and EU systematically destabilising any Ukrainian government they deemed insufficiently pro-western. The Germans assisted in pushing Ukraine into civil war in 2014, thereby endangering the pipelines on which they depend. They also turned a blind eye to the rampant corruption and skimming Ukrainian politicians engaged in, including corruption involving the transiting of Russian fuels.

    , @Hunsdon
    @Jack D

    Hang on now a second, Jack. Didn't you just type a few minutes back that "Believe it or not, the Soviets (and the Putin regime) have always been very careful to observe the terms of bond covenants, contracts, etc. The last time they defaulted was on the Czarist bonds but they always paid their own."?

    I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how you square the circle of not much being " stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country" with the statement above.

    Replies: @Jack D

  166. @Rob McX
    @Bragadocious


    Is Waters doing “culture work” for MI6 and the Integrity Initiative?
     
    I wouldn't be surprised. British soap operas are being used by the state as vessels for propaganda.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joaed2Yn87o

    Replies: @Father Coughlin

    Waters has Daddy issues anyway
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Four

  167. @Jack D
    @Cagey Beast

    As AD says, your argument refutes itself - what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the "correct" policy (in your supplier's judgment) toward a 3rd country?

    2nd, Putin had no interest in "a neutral and federated Ukraine" - he wanted a Ukraine that was AT BEST Finlandized (instead he got a Finland that was NATO-ized, but never mind) but ideally a Russian puppet state - more like Belarus than Finland.

    At the beginning of this war, Roman Abramovich tried to set up negotiations between Zelensky and Putin as an "honest broker" since he (thought he) had good relationships with both men. Well - Putin slipped a bit of poison to Abramovich - not enough to kill him, just enough to make him really sick. The message was "I don't want any honest brokers. Don't try that 'honest broker" crap ever again." "Neutral" in the old Finland sense meant emasculated - the Finns were always very careful never to do anything that would piss off Moscow. Even their press was controlled such that insulting Moscow was not allowed.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Hunsdon

    ” […] what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country?”

    It’s not about the danger of the Russians punishing Germany for having the wrong policy on Ukraine, it’s about the US and EU systematically destabilising any Ukrainian government they deemed insufficiently pro-western. The Germans assisted in pushing Ukraine into civil war in 2014, thereby endangering the pipelines on which they depend. They also turned a blind eye to the rampant corruption and skimming Ukrainian politicians engaged in, including corruption involving the transiting of Russian fuels.

  168. @Jack D
    @Cagey Beast

    As AD says, your argument refutes itself - what could be stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the "correct" policy (in your supplier's judgment) toward a 3rd country?

    2nd, Putin had no interest in "a neutral and federated Ukraine" - he wanted a Ukraine that was AT BEST Finlandized (instead he got a Finland that was NATO-ized, but never mind) but ideally a Russian puppet state - more like Belarus than Finland.

    At the beginning of this war, Roman Abramovich tried to set up negotiations between Zelensky and Putin as an "honest broker" since he (thought he) had good relationships with both men. Well - Putin slipped a bit of poison to Abramovich - not enough to kill him, just enough to make him really sick. The message was "I don't want any honest brokers. Don't try that 'honest broker" crap ever again." "Neutral" in the old Finland sense meant emasculated - the Finns were always very careful never to do anything that would piss off Moscow. Even their press was controlled such that insulting Moscow was not allowed.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Hunsdon

    Hang on now a second, Jack. Didn’t you just type a few minutes back that “Believe it or not, the Soviets (and the Putin regime) have always been very careful to observe the terms of bond covenants, contracts, etc. The last time they defaulted was on the Czarist bonds but they always paid their own.”?

    I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around how you square the circle of not much being ” stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country” with the statement above.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hunsdon

    You see how this has already played out in real life - Putin didn't ever come out and say that Gazprom is defaulting on its contracts. It's just that there were "technical difficulties" with a turbine and then an "unfortunate accident" where someone (probably the Poles we think) blew a hole in the pipeline, etc. So you see they are not breaking their contract at all, it's just matters beyond their control have happened so that they are unable to deliver the gas, so sorry Germany.

  169. @Hunsdon
    @Jack D

    Hang on now a second, Jack. Didn't you just type a few minutes back that "Believe it or not, the Soviets (and the Putin regime) have always been very careful to observe the terms of bond covenants, contracts, etc. The last time they defaulted was on the Czarist bonds but they always paid their own."?

    I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how you square the circle of not much being " stupider than having your energy supply be dependent on having the “correct” policy (in your supplier’s judgment) toward a 3rd country" with the statement above.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You see how this has already played out in real life – Putin didn’t ever come out and say that Gazprom is defaulting on its contracts. It’s just that there were “technical difficulties” with a turbine and then an “unfortunate accident” where someone (probably the Poles we think) blew a hole in the pipeline, etc. So you see they are not breaking their contract at all, it’s just matters beyond their control have happened so that they are unable to deliver the gas, so sorry Germany.

  170. Concerning is not an adjective.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jim Don Bob


    Concerning is not an adjective.
     
    Yes it is:

    From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:


    concerning

    adjective

    Definition of concerning (Entry 2 of 2)

    : causing concern or worry : creating reason for concern : TROUBLING

    "... found the latest reports very concerning."

    "It's extremely concerning that drivers still choose to give their attention to things other than the road when they're behind the wheel," said [Texas Department of Transportation] Executive Director James Bass.

    — The Nueces County Record Star

    "… carbapenems should not be administered to patients with positive penicillin skin test results or a concerning history of a type I allergic response to penicillin."

    — Alan R. Salkind et al.

     

    If you're going to be pedantic in attacking Steve, I am going to be pedantic in defending him.

    (Don't take this the wrong way. I honestly can't recall what kind of commenter you are, and this is not personal. We just finished a nice dinner of champagne and my signature Chinook salmon steaks grilled on cedar planks, and I needed to read and write something. Have a nice day :) )

  171. @clifford brown
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWI never made any sense to me. This all seems similar. My initial reaction was that this attack was in response to the Donbas elections today.

    NPR covered this as the fifth story of the day after two other Russia stories, one on how the Donbas elections were rigged and everyone knows it, and the second about whether Europe should take in all of the Russian refugees fleeing Putin's draft. CNN has not mentioned it when I watched. MSNBC is not covering the explosion instead, of course, prattling on about January 6th "Attacks".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @James Braxton, @tyrone, @Tex, @Buzz Mohawk

    Thank you for your reply. It captures the spirit of my comment perfectly. I feel the same way: This reminds of the lead-ups to WWI and I think to WWII and others as well.

    I am not a good student of history, so here I am careful not to claim too much, but it seems to me that this event is the kind of thing that has lead to bigger, “unnecessary” wars in the past — and I wonder if that was the actual intent on the part of the perpetrators.

    Whoever they are, they don’t care about the consequences, or they are too stupid or crazy or deluded by their own philosophy to envision what those consequences might be. This is a terrible thing.

    As far as the media coverage goes in America, that is not surprising and may even be a clue…

  172. @Colin Wright
    @Hypnotoad666

    'And what a list that is! Include the Covid lab leak, who was sponsoring antifa during the 2020 riots, the 2020 late night ballot dumps, the deep state’s involvement in January 6, etc., etc. Hell, they are still refusing to release JFK docs!'

    Ah, JFK...

    Those were the days. That was when the question was whether you believed in conspiracy theories.

    Now it's a matter of which conspiracy theories you believe.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Now it’s a matter of which conspiracy theories you believe.“

    That’s easy. Jews are behind EVERY single bad thing our world. /sarcasm

  173. @Jim Don Bob
    Concerning is not an adjective.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Concerning is not an adjective.

    Yes it is:

    From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

    concerning

    adjective

    Definition of concerning (Entry 2 of 2)

    : causing concern or worry : creating reason for concern : TROUBLING

    “… found the latest reports very concerning.”

    “It’s extremely concerning that drivers still choose to give their attention to things other than the road when they’re behind the wheel,” said [Texas Department of Transportation] Executive Director James Bass.

    — The Nueces County Record Star

    “… carbapenems should not be administered to patients with positive penicillin skin test results or a concerning history of a type I allergic response to penicillin.”

    — Alan R. Salkind et al.

    If you’re going to be pedantic in attacking Steve, I am going to be pedantic in defending him.

    (Don’t take this the wrong way. I honestly can’t recall what kind of commenter you are, and this is not personal. We just finished a nice dinner of champagne and my signature Chinook salmon steaks grilled on cedar planks, and I needed to read and write something. Have a nice day 🙂 )

  174. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    And how, pray tell, would the Ukrainians have managed to place their underwater drones in the Baltic Sea? It's a very long sea voyage to the area of the explosions via the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Gdańsk perhaps.

  175. @Joe Stalin
    I heard Shaun Thompson (WIND-AM @ 560) blame the Russkies today for blowing up the pipeline today, so we can have fun from any direction!

    https://560theanswer.com/radioshow/shaun-thompson

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Sean Thompson the purported half Italian half Norwegian who is almost certainly half Italian and half Irish.

  176. @Paul Rise
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The methane release here has every potential to increase temperatures in the near term, certainly in northern Europe. This has been obvious since Deepwater Horizon and the weather across the gulf coast the following summer.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Maybe you missed that comment on the other thread in which I brought up the number 1 in 10,000,000,000. That is the additional proportion of methane (and other gasses) released if the whole pipeline full of it goes into the atmosphere. Let’s just pick a number like 3% (out of my rear end) that is the atmosphere over northern Europe, and somehow that methane remained in that location, winds aloft be damned.

    You’d have an additional concentration of 1 in 300 million or so. Plus, the Earth’s climate as modeled by an energy balance doesn’t really operate on a localized level like that. If you went in another direction and burned all 11 billion cubic feet of the stuff, how much energy would you put into the atmosphere over northern Europe?

    I’ll leave that to you, Paul, with some direction. Find the upper heating value of a cubic ft of natural gas, multiply that amount of energy by 11 billion, then work out how much warmer on average that would make a 3 mile (15,800 ft) layer of gas (just use nitrogen – that’s nearly 80% of it) x the area of northern Europe. I’m guessing your change in F will have a few zeros in front of it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, it's been over half an hour. I gots to know!

    Let me do this in SI: That 11 billion cubic feet of gas contains ~ 1.2 x 10^16 J of chemical energy. The specific heat of N2 is ~ 1 J/kg-C. The 3-mile thick atmosphere (I'm being conservative by picking that number) over 3% of the world has a volume of about 2 x 10^17 m^3 at a density that varies, but let's use .8 of its sea level density - that 3 miles up is a little over 1/2 an atmosphere - of about 1 kg/m^3.

    We've got 2 x 10^17 kg of nitrogen, of which it takes 1 J to heat up a kg by 1C. 1.2 x 10^16 J from the complete burning of all that NG would bring the temperature of that chunk of atmosphere up by about 0.05 C. OK, that's not as many zeros as I'd expected but it's no big heat wave either.

    This is all assuming the energy released stayed over the chunk of atmosphere with no additional heat transfer to space or land due to the slightly higher temperature - both not true.

  177. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Paul Rise

    Maybe you missed that comment on the other thread in which I brought up the number 1 in 10,000,000,000. That is the additional proportion of methane (and other gasses) released if the whole pipeline full of it goes into the atmosphere. Let's just pick a number like 3% (out of my rear end) that is the atmosphere over northern Europe, and somehow that methane remained in that location, winds aloft be damned.

    You'd have an additional concentration of 1 in 300 million or so. Plus, the Earth's climate as modeled by an energy balance doesn't really operate on a localized level like that. If you went in another direction and burned all 11 billion cubic feet of the stuff, how much energy would you put into the atmosphere over northern Europe?

    I'll leave that to you, Paul, with some direction. Find the upper heating value of a cubic ft of natural gas, multiply that amount of energy by 11 billion, then work out how much warmer on average that would make a 3 mile (15,800 ft) layer of gas (just use nitrogen - that's nearly 80% of it) x the area of northern Europe. I'm guessing your change in F will have a few zeros in front of it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, it’s been over half an hour. I gots to know!

    Let me do this in SI: That 11 billion cubic feet of gas contains ~ 1.2 x 10^16 J of chemical energy. The specific heat of N2 is ~ 1 J/kg-C. The 3-mile thick atmosphere (I’m being conservative by picking that number) over 3% of the world has a volume of about 2 x 10^17 m^3 at a density that varies, but let’s use .8 of its sea level density – that 3 miles up is a little over 1/2 an atmosphere – of about 1 kg/m^3.

    We’ve got 2 x 10^17 kg of nitrogen, of which it takes 1 J to heat up a kg by 1C. 1.2 x 10^16 J from the complete burning of all that NG would bring the temperature of that chunk of atmosphere up by about 0.05 C. OK, that’s not as many zeros as I’d expected but it’s no big heat wave either.

    This is all assuming the energy released stayed over the chunk of atmosphere with no additional heat transfer to space or land due to the slightly higher temperature – both not true.

  178. @MEH 0910
    @Jack D

    Biden Completely Lost on Stage During Global Fund Speech
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0GknlycPA
    Sep 22, 2022


    YIKES... President Joe Biden seemed to be wandering around on stage AGAIN after wrapping up his speech at the Global Fund on Wednesday.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  179. @Pop Warner

    His wife is journalist Anne Applebaum.
     
    No further explanation necessary

    Replies: @Jack D, @BosTex, @Pilfgrable

    Until this happened (The blabbing by the Polish politico), I thought that Applebaum was just a historian. Now I just tossed a book of hers about Eastern Europe into the recycling bin. Life’s too short to read neocon warmongers.

  180. Poland: “Let’s you and him fight.”

  181. @Intelligent Dasein
    This was an act of barbarism no doubt perpetrated by the Collective West in order to bring Germany to its knees so that it would have no choice but to adopt a war footing. Russia always stood ready to resume gas flows through Nordstream 1 and 2 whenever the sanctions were lifted. Whoever did this was opposed to de-escalation, and it was certainly not Russia. Russia had no reason to bomb the pipelines that it could have simply shut off at any time had it wanted the gas to stop.

    And the monstrous thing about this is that the innocent of Europe will suffer. When shortages, skyrocketing energy bills, hunger, and cold start biting into Europe this winter, it will be the most vulnerable who suffer the worst. The poor, the old, children, the handicapped, the sick. Can you imagine European babies starving and freezing in the dark? That's what the bastards who did this have destined these innocent souls to.

    We are all Russians today. Every good man, everywhere in the world, no matter his nation or cause, now knows that Russia is leading the effort against the barbarians in the West who want only to kill, steal, and destroy. It is now Russia, and those who stand with her, who are the last best hope of humanity.

    Steve Sailer, quite characteristically, is firmly on the side of the Real Nation!™ of Ukraine.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    Yes – as you point out, it makes no sense for Moscow to have committed this act of sabotage since they could always stop the flow at any time anyway, and in fact we all know they very much wanted to resume use of the pipeline when the sanctions are rolled back (I’m just kidding, we all know these sanctions are NEVER being lifted in our lifetimes, whether that’s a few more months or 35 years).

    Nor is ruining the pipeline in the interest of the European nations which would like, someday, to see relative normality resume so that at least some of their energy could be supplied from Russia again.

    This does though clearly serve the interests of the uni-party warmongers in Washington by removing the possibility of Germany ‘losing its nerve’ over the winter, or sometime next year, and beginning to counsel for de-escalation and some kind of pathway for everyone to put their guns back in their holsters. It makes me think of how Cortes, I believe, burned his ships once his men landed in the New World, cutting off their alternative course of simply going back home and forcing them to commit to his agenda of exploring the dangerous interior.

    I’m glad that Steve is apparently concerned at, and taking seriously, the extreme aggression, recklessness and illegality of what it seems quite like the US just did.

  182. @Whereismyhandle
    @AndrewR

    Glenn Greenwald is right that the British are the worst and most pathetic warmongers.

    Something to do with losing an empire and coping by trying to be the most insane outpost of the American Empire, one imagines.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Sam Malone

    The British press, most especially the tabloids, are indeed once again reminding us all that they are the slime of the earth, with the insane levels of absolute hatred and venomous ad-hominem and ludicrous exaggeration they’ve unleashed since February (VLAD THE BUTCHER!!! MAD VLAD *SMILES* AS HE ORDERS MORE CIVILIANS TORTURED!!!!!!, and on and on and on).

    The quality papers are obviously not so crude, but I believe every one of them is 100% on board with the obsessive war drum-beating, the near-total lack of nuance, and a studied uninterest in the recent history of Russia’s security concerns being routinely disregarded and in fact deliberately trampled over by the US since the 1990s. Their determination to maintain the war fever with twisted half-truths and the suppression of inconvenient narratives is unsurprising but repulsive.

    But British aggression and arrogance and jingoism, and their skill at lying and deceit and propaganda, certainly precede the loss of the empire which began in 1947. During WWI and WWII the Brits (or rather the creatures in Whitehall and Westminster and Fleet Street and The City that ruled them and molded their thoughts) were absolute masters at creating untruthful but rousing propaganda which succeeded in motivating their own public, and also were skilled in directing propaganda at the enemy which confused and demoralized his troops. And of course in both wars they were highly successful in conducting lobbying efforts and dirty tricks operations and propaganda stunts in the neutral and powerful United States which won over the public and government.

  183. @Jack D
    @Hunsdon

    JackD is entirely mistaken about a Putin desire to recreate the Soviet Union:


    The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.
     
    - Vladimir Putin

    I take him at his word.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hunsdon

    Jack:

    My divorce was one of the greatest geopolitical catastrophes of my life. I’m not looking to remarry my ex-wife.

    Also, you neatly truncated my comment in your response. I didn’t say you were entirely mistaken, I said I hoped you were entirely mistaken. From a less careful poster, I would assume it was simply an oversight.

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