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They Should Run PSAs Encouraging People to Call 911 if They Are Having a Heart Attack or Stroke
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Many people are probably not aware that hospitals are mostly pretty empty right now. This raises the danger that people with non-coronavirus health emergencies are trying to tough them out at home, and thus dying of something like a heart attack or stroke that might well be survivable with modern medical care. We could lose a lot of people that way. So, they should run public service announcements on TV telling you to call an ambulance if you have the following symptoms of heart attack or stroke.

Here’s another concern, although I don’t know what to do about it. Hospitals have been locking out family members of patients to prevent infections spreading. That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

 
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  1. …you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    Within reason.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/450/154/820.jpeg
    , @James Speaks
    We need a Thank you NOT button.
    , @miss marple
    Have I been transferred over to the dark web?
    , @Anonymous
    She could queefster an Isetta for sure, maybe even a first gen Honda Civic.
    , @AnotherDad
    One of the noteworthy aspects of modern life is that our "elites" insist on rubbing our noses in ugliness. In fact--unless we truly reject modern life and go Amish--more or less pinning our eyes open Clockwork Orange style and making us look--making their ugliness inescapable.
    , @ThreeCranes
    If this is what we were supposed to worship in the Earth Goddess cults then I think I’ll go see what that Sky God of Thunder and Lightning thing is all about.
  2. @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    • Agree: Lot
    • LOL: bomag
  3. I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist). I wasn’t allowed inside but was told the emergency room was virtually empty. No waiting, saw a doctor right away. Apparently they have never been this quiet.

    The parking lot was completely empty. I parked in the short term visitors section, didn’t even have to pay!

    While I waited in the car not a single other car or patient arrived.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Kim

    I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist).
     
    Why would you use "they" and "their" in this instance rather than "he" or "she"?

    Is the feminist training is so very strong or is it just that you have a very strong impulse to conform and submit, no matter what nonsense it requires you to produce?

  4. @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    We need a Thank you NOT button.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    She's a fair-skinned, blue-eyed strawberry blond. I thought that's what was in demand here.
  5. We walked by the local hospital today , Was strange to see signs along the roads and streets leading go to the hospital all stating that Visitors were not allowed.

    no visitors are permitted whatsoever. Does not matter the reason you need medical care , wives and husbands and children are banned from visiting their loved ones in the local hospital.

    This foolishness is very destructive and is not saving lives, but will increase the anxiety and stress of families.

    I suppose if the United States was able to manufacture enough masks and hydrochloroquine we would not be in this predicament.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Lugash

    I suppose if the United States was able to manufacture enough masks and hydrochloroquine we would not be in this predicament.
     
    For want of a cotton swab..
    , @Kyle
    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.
  6. Will extroverts and covidiots fall under negative selection and be wiped out in a population sweep due to covid19?

    Oh, and how old is the average case fatality?

    Imagine a disease immune to its host evolving immunity because it only kills the old.

    • Replies: @Travis
    In New York the median CV fatality is 73 years-old.
    Only 4% of the CV deaths are under the age of 50
  7. I wonder how many people don’t know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don’t see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Yes, it's been weird witnessing the ongoing stream of 'Omigod we're overwhelmed we've never seen anything like it we're working 120 hours a week' mainstream media profiles of critical care medical staff, and then to flip over to FB and see one hospital staff song-n-dance video after another.

    I'm sure there are some very busy hospitals, but the way the use of health care capacity has been warped during this COVID-19 crisis is remarkable.
    , @AnotherDad

    I wonder how many people don’t know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don’t see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.
     

    Far be it from me to suggest ... rationality!

    But why not have some hospitals be allowed to simply not take Covid-19--or for that matter any sort of "infectious disease"--patients and explicitly state they are ready to roll, not just for emergencies--trauma, heart attacks, strokes--but cancer treatment, joint replacements, general surgeries, gall bladders, etc. etc. etc.?

    Infectious disease is really it's own category. And really Covid-19 patients don't really need much of what's in hospitals. Set them up in empty college dorms or barracks of military bases--CPAP machines, oxygen concentrators, and stocked pharmacies with all the promising drugs.

    Let's get hospitals back in business so they can start killing people again and we can get this slumping death rate back up!

    , @stillCARealist
    the wait for a routine mammogram takes you to June 5 in my town. They're only taking people who have breast cancer or if the doctor says, "RIGHT NOW."

    Result? The imaging centers are empty. Why is this necessary? Those places are not hospitals.

    Also, dentists. They're the cleanest places in town, yet they're shut down for everything except emergencies. I should tell them that the coffee stains on my teeth are a serious emotional emergency for me.
  8. Sweden’s top doc explaining their approach and his view on the virus (very similar to Stanford guys). https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/

    The bullet points see there, but it’s worth the thirty min. interview. He’s a good listen. He touches on the strategy, ethics, lockdown, etc…

    One thing he mentions that I’ve been thinking about is that one thing that makes this a little worse than the flu is that it’s new (ie novel). Basically this is what would happen if the regular flu hit is for the first time and we didn’t know much about it or have vaccines for the old.

    • Agree: Jonathan Silber
  9. Reg, I can’t channel surf past the program “My 600 Pound Life” because I don’t want to see things like this. Who made that out of what and why?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Who made that out of what and why?
     
    I see that a German artist named Miriam Lenk made it out of fiberglass and plastic. Her style appears to have moved on from fat lady statues.

    https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Sculpture-cumulus/76429/327051/view

    https://www.saatchiart.com/account/artworks/76429
  10. It should be “but my suspicion”, Steve. As king of typos, I tend to catch these things.

    It’s been pretty sad to hear from a nurse family member how the friends and family can not visit the hospital. Some of the patients would have died with or without, but, man, it can be a bad deal having no loved ones around. Was this all a big mistake too?

    As for the PSA’s, who’s this “they” anyway? Maybe “they” should not have been making up some TV reports showing the hospitals overflowing in the first place.

    • Agree: Federalist
    • Replies: @Hail

    As for the PSA’s, who’s this “they” anyway? Maybe “they” should not have been making up some TV reports showing the hospitals overflowing in the first place.
     
    Scenario 1. A king orders a series of giant ditches dug. He organizes teams of peasants and others to fill in the ditches. Having filled in the ditches, the emergency ditch diggers are dismissed with applause and acclaim. But they've disrupted the soil of local farmland, threatening local farmers, and the kingdom with starvation. Quick, hire another team to bring in fresh soil from elsewhere. They do so. But they too, have built ditches, and some of them are blocking roads, disrupting the flow of goods of all kind. Now a third team can be called up to fill in those new ditches. All along, have the royal scribes to blare scare-stories about ditches. There could be a ditch coming for you at any time. Everyone has a part to play in the Fight Against Ditches! We're All in It Together.

    Scenario 2. Don't dig a series of giant ditches. End.

    , @Stealth
    That last paragraph is gold. It's shameful that they tried to bullshit everybody into believing that hospitals were overflowing with COVID-19 patients, when none of that was true. I wonder how long they were planning on keeping the charade going. I noticed that it was only after people started putting videos of the empty hospitals on Youtube that the media started reporting the truth. I don't know how anyone can deride conspiracy theorists when the press and the authorities are so dishonest.


    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/brooklyn-hospital-coronavirus-patients-deaths/index.html

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/us/detroit-hospital-workers-sinai-grace-coronavirus/index.html
  11. One daughter is a nurse at Cedars Sinai. She works in internal medicine and is not busy. Her BF is an ICU nurse at another hospital and he’s still working regular hours. He’s seen two CV-19 cases.

    I am one of those infrastructure “essential services” providers and have some official-looking letters to carry with me should I encounter a police roadblock. That won’t happen. I canceled a routine colonoscopy procedure though. There’s going to be a backlog on routine medicine and dentistry come July. And it’s probably as good a time as any to have a heart attack.

    Just some random observations from SoCal:

    * In Los Angeles, it is common to see a person wearing a mask while driving alone in a car with the windows rolled up.

    * In Buellton, it is uncommon to see anyone wearing a mask anywhere.

    * Rush hour traffic is slowing increasing throughout the Southland.

    * Mexicans never stopped working. I can’t tell if they’re Mexican Mexicans or American Mexicans, but the strawberries harvest in Oxnard, the home remodelling in San Marino, and landscaping goes on as usual. Good for them.

    * CalTrans and their contractors are running full blast to build and repair roads that would ordinarily be too congested to work on.

    * The News is impossible to listen to.

    * This a great time to own a sports car in Southern California.

    * Beach parking is closed all along the Gold Coast, but the surfers park along the 101 and surf anyway.

    This is a disaster for anyone who gets very sick from the virus and for almost all small retail businesses. But other things go on too.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
    I have an "essential employee" letter from the Extremely Large Online Retailer where i work but haven't had to show it and am sure I won't. Traffic in the NY area has unquestionably picked up a lot in the last couple weeks, every day is more than the day before. On my way into work this afternoon (I work nights) I ran into the first volume-related slowdown since before all this, it was quite minor but still a watershed moment of sorts.
  12. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s an actual PSA from LA:
    Masks Not Required on Los Angeles Trains, Buses & Subways
    LOS ANGELES COUNTY METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY

    UPDATING: Metro COVID-19 news and service information, April 17

    L.A. County has mandated face coverings for everyone when in public engaging in essential activities. While face coverings are not required to ride Metro, we recommend all transit riders wear face coverings and/or masks on our buses and trains as well.

    https://thesource.metro.net/2020/03/03/metro-coordinating-with-l-a-county-department-of-public-health-in-response-to-recent-reports-of-covid-19/

    🤦‍♂️

    • Replies: @unit472
    I suspect mandating a mask on public transit would cause enforcement issues. I saw a Twitter video of police having to physically remove one of the usual suspects from a bus in a city that did require masks. Wouldn't take many such incidents before one set off a larger social disturbance.
    , @Stan Adams
    When Miami-Dade County made mask-wearing mandatory on April 9, the emergency order explicitly mentioned public transportation:

    Persons working in or visiting grocery stores, restaurants, pharmacies, construction sites, public transit vehicles, vehicles for hire, and locations where social distancing measures are not possible shall wear facial coverings as defined by the CDC.
     
    MDT suspended all fares on March 22. Tri-Rail followed suit a few days later.

    In unincorporated Miami-Dade County, fast-food restaurants are still allowing customers to come inside to order. But in the city of Miami, those on foot have to use the drive-through. It's weird to see people standing in line behind cars.

    Supermarkets are tightly controlling access, with long lines stretching out into the parking lot. But discount department stores with grocery departments (such as Target and Wal-Mart) are still allowing normal ingress/egress.
  13. That has all sorts of dilemmas:

    1. Which is more probable – that of getting Covid in hospital or dying at home because of heart attack/stroke?

    2. If one has to assume, from the hospital perspective, all incoming patients are Covid positive (till proven otherwise), how well can they handle a heart attack/stroke victim as comorbid with Covid? e.g. How can the EMT administer, say, mouth to mouth resuscitation to a presumed Covid positive. Especially in the absence of robust PPE. Remember also, Covid tests are not readily available (have many days wait list).

    Considering the complexities, it may be easier to let sleeping dogs lie rather than burden healthcare workers with more trouble.

    • Replies: @Jmaie

    How can the EMT administer, say, mouth to mouth resuscitation to a presumed Covid positive
     
    EMT's haven't done direct mouth to mouth for a long time.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=cpr+mask&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS884US884&sxsrf=ALeKk00rT-kXs-1tGsZh9iv0k6buM1byjw:1587225505196&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=VgNX7NgenCBE0M%253A%252CVLn1Ean2d9p-hM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTXKnFA609NaH_dmVCNlljLP2rCBw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKoqnjq_LoAhXjoFsKHWzYCYAQ9QEwDnoECAoQTA#imgrc=GtbP-U1d8jZrRM
    , @Known Fact
    Heard today from a friend whose mom fell in assisted living, had to be taken to a CT hospital and now apparently has the virus. It might not be clear if she caught it at the hospital or beforehand at the home, which could really set off some alarm bells
  14. Hail says: • Website

    A “Simpsons” metaphor:

    Principal Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend!

    Lisa: But isn’t that a big short-sighted? What happens when we’re overrun by lizards?

    Principal Skinner: No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese Needle Snakes. They’ll wipe out the lizards.

    Lisa: But… Aren’t the snakes even worse?

    Principal Skinner: Yes. But we’re prepared for that. We’ve lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

    Lisa: But then we’re stuck with gorillas!

    Principal Skinner: No, that’s the beautiful part. When winter time rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

    Lisa: (Dejected groan)

    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
    https://imgur.com/gallery/3ziWl
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    DOCTOR WEIRDO: Think of it, Ellen -- a world full of frozen gorillas in winter time!

    ELLEN: That... would be wonderful...
  15. WuFlu is a new disease. How could family advocacy help? I get the feeling doctors are winging it.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    How could family advocacy help?
     
    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you're an inpatient. They'll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse--often far worse. It doesn't matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.
  16. OT:
    Nick Lowe Performs ‘(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding’ From Home | In My Room

    Nick Lowe played a handful of songs from his home in London for Rolling Stone‘s “In My Room,” an IGTV series in which musicians perform while in quarantine in wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Accompanied by his son, Roy, Lowe kicked off with the somber “Trombone,” a song he dropped last year off his EP, Starvation/Trombone. “I’ve been told time’s a healer,” he sings, strumming his acoustic guitar. “Still I can’t shake the love I lost.”

    Get the full story at: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nick-lowe-in-my-room-981816/

    • Thanks: Bubba
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don't love 'Rolling Stone' links around here.
    , @Rouetheday
    I suppose that, by the time this pandemic has ended, there will be a handful of Marie Provosts found who "...became the doggie's dinner..."
    , @Jack Armstrong
    Can’t find the link but the unplugged/live duet of Nick Lowe and Haven Monahan performing Nick’s " I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass" at the AmRen convention is truly moving.
    , @Glaivester
    He's being cruel to be kind.
  17. @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    Have I been transferred over to the dark web?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    It's Roxane Gay after her corona bleaching
  18. @Buffalo Joe
    Reg, I can't channel surf past the program "My 600 Pound Life" because I don't want to see things like this. Who made that out of what and why?

    Who made that out of what and why?

    I see that a German artist named Miriam Lenk made it out of fiberglass and plastic. Her style appears to have moved on from fat lady statues.

    https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Sculpture-cumulus/76429/327051/view

    https://www.saatchiart.com/account/artworks/76429

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    Lesbian.
  19. @Hail
    A "Simpsons" metaphor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9yruQM1ggc

    Principal Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend!

    Lisa: But isn't that a big short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

    Principal Skinner: No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese Needle Snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

    Lisa: But... Aren't the snakes even worse?

    Principal Skinner: Yes. But we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

    Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!

    Principal Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When winter time rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

    Lisa: (Dejected groan)
     
    • Replies: @Pericles
    A shot of snake blood and thus was humanity jump started.
    , @Hail
    This, at least, explains why that pesky Stone Age lasted so long.

    They ate the snake, got COVID9999bc, and cave-society patriarchs panicked and called for a shutdown of all hunting.

  20. Anonymous[111] • Disclaimer says:

    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they’re eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.
     
    That may be true for middling intellects. But if you are not of middling intellect, and you want your relative or loved-one to get better and live, it's better to be in the Hospital, advocating the case of the person you are there for. Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can't necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It's better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.
    , @jsm
    Screw you.

    I, too, have worked in the hospital for plenty of years. I've seen the mistakes. Made a few myself, AND SO HAVE YOU... and in some cases the family member pointed it out in time to save my patient the bad effects of a mis-administration and myself a black mark on my employment record.

    Not to mention the little children, already sick and miserable and terrified enough, being subjected to even more fear and trauma because Mommy's not allowed to come in with him into that scary room filled with strangers in scary masks.

    I'm perfectly happy to spend 30 seconds directing a family member to the cafeteria. And explaining things to the spouse who loves that man IS OUR JOB.

    Screw you and your efficiency.

    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    Well, you know, The Authorities always know best in all cases, and never flag in their diligence and insights. /s

    I had an emergency operation for a life-threatening case of peritonitis several years back, the origin of which was a botched operation for removal of kidney stones, one of which was too large to pass into the bladder, and of others detected in one of my kidneys. The surgeon employed laser lithotripsy to disintegrate the stones, but apparently during the procedure, they blasted through my abdominal wall, and punched a hole through my small intestine, thereby releasing intestinal fauna into what should have been a sterile cavity. Off to the races we went after a couple days at home, with me spiking a fever of about 104°, and at that point ill-suited to take charge of invoking emergency services. Fortunately, my wife (first instance) was there to take charge of getting me taken by the fire rescue crew to the hospital (fortunately, a different hospital). The first few days I was on morphine to control the pain, and hallucinating, so I rather doubt I could be much help in my own care. It was a good thing that my wife (second instance) was there to exercise vigilance on my behalf, and to glean information on my treatment and prognosis. The staff and doctors did a fine job, but it was a relief to me to know that she was there to oversee my care. Oddly enough, patient morale, part of healing, turns out to be important.

    So poot on your POV. Your attribution of God-like powers to the medicos is incorrect; to their family the patient is not just another "client", but someone about whom they care, and for whom they will go to bat, whether that is through information gathering, or through active intervention in the care regimen if they are concerned that it is not being pursued with demonstrable energy. Sometimes the staff and professionals, even with the best of intentions, could use family input to further tune their care.

    Maybe you should just get a job at the Division of Motor Vehicles, and liberate yourself from having to even simulate the pretense of fellow-feeling with the families of patients, stupid and emotional inconveniences that they evidently are to you.

    , @obwandiyag
    "I'm a nurse, goddamit! And I've worked too long and too hard to let you do this to me!"

    Yeah, all nurses want family out so they can neglect patients.
    , @captflee
    ROTFLOLATSM...highly efficient medical system. Do let me, or more likely, my great great great great great grandchild know when that happy day rolls around. Hell, get the annual deaths from medical misadventure below those from diabetes and I'll throw y'all a parade.

    Having over the last decade seen rather more of the inside of our local hospital than one would wish upon his most dire enemy, I suspect that the proportion of counterproductive family members is probably about the same as that of incompetent and/or indifferent hospital staff, so let's call that a wash.

    Last year, after my wife was transferred from the MICU to a step-down floor I made the serious error of leaving my wife's side for a little less than an hour to go home and feed the dogs. When I stepped off the elevator on my return trip, I could hear a myriad of alarms emanating from rooms up and down the corridor, including my wife's, as she was in distress, with oxygen sats spiraling downward.

    So, off I went to find a live body...hey, luckily not so hard to find with all the singing...we're all over on a parallel corridor, eating cake and celebrating somebody's special occasion. I am not more often than once a decade or so sorely tempted to smack a woman, and resisted the urge yet again, but did home in on an RN and using my best COMMAND VOICE hasten her to my wife's bedside.

    Seems that despite my repeated warnings, including placing a written one in bold six inch high letters on the highly visible white board in her room, stating her extreme allergy to a certain med, in my brief absence someone administered said med, with all too predictable results. When I discovered this, I must admit to momentarily losing my cool, tearing off my day pack and violently throwing it onto the floor. Oh, the Humanity! This apparently got the hospital po-lice sicced on me. Before they could defenestrate me and allow the staff to go ahead and kill my wife through neglect and numbskullery I was fortunately able to contact the patient advocate,who was able to defuse the situation with the cops and bring in a competent nurse, ending the crisis.

    Look, my professional life was spent among a wide slice of the IQ bell curve, albeit one with a strangely disproportionate right tail, so I don't doubt get that good help is damned hard to come by. Many of us have had to deal with the left halves of the intelligence and diligence curves, and can understand the frustration of repeatedly answering what seems to us stupid questions, and get that you have to maintain some professional detachment (the patient and family's existential crisis being merely a small slice of your long work day, not much different from the one before and the ones to follow), but one should still strive to be closer to the empathetic than to indifferent, no?

    I could not agree more with Mr. Anon's comment, and since that day have never left my wife alone in any sort of medical setting for more than a very few minutes. The number of nurses and physicians who have urged me to do so would, I hope, concern you. I just accept it as the way things are these days.

    That said, I hereby sing hosannas in praise of the majority of decent and competent hospital personnel who have shepherded us through her illnesses. If 50% of the ventilated do not survive, and we've gotten a favorable coin flip three times in a row, it's probably the staff and not pure luck.
    , @Hibernian
    Your kindness and compassion are just so overwhelming.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    111, "explaining the simplest things over and over" because no one can understand your accented, broken English!
  21. Problems of privacy aside, I wonder if our public health statistics are good enough for us to tease out, in retrospect, the number of non-coronavirus deaths that happened at home, that might have been avoided if the victims had called 911 and been treated in hospital. That’s probably a what-if question that’s beyond the theoretical scope of the level of detail that we record.

    An ancillary question is, how much have medical records that provide details of the cause of death improved since the old days when everything was done on paper forms? When a patient has died, no one really has any strong incentive to record much of anything, beyond the most basic cursory details before releasing the departed.

    Epidemiologists would likely know the answer and I’m hazarding a guess that they are frustrated, because, in the modern era, there are possibilities to record far more subtler levels of detail.

  22. @Hail
    A "Simpsons" metaphor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9yruQM1ggc

    Principal Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend!

    Lisa: But isn't that a big short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

    Principal Skinner: No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese Needle Snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

    Lisa: But... Aren't the snakes even worse?

    Principal Skinner: Yes. But we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

    Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!

    Principal Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When winter time rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

    Lisa: (Dejected groan)
     

    DOCTOR WEIRDO: Think of it, Ellen — a world full of frozen gorillas in winter time!

    ELLEN: That… would be wonderful…

  23. @James Speaks
    We need a Thank you NOT button.

    She’s a fair-skinned, blue-eyed strawberry blond. I thought that’s what was in demand here.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    So you're saying we're all Jews and POCs around here, is that it? Hmm.
  24. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    We walked by the local hospital today , Was strange to see signs along the roads and streets leading go to the hospital all stating that Visitors were not allowed.

    no visitors are permitted whatsoever. Does not matter the reason you need medical care , wives and husbands and children are banned from visiting their loved ones in the local hospital.

    This foolishness is very destructive and is not saving lives, but will increase the anxiety and stress of families.

    I suppose if the United States was able to manufacture enough masks and hydrochloroquine we would not be in this predicament.

    I suppose if the United States was able to manufacture enough masks and hydrochloroquine we would not be in this predicament.

    For want of a cotton swab..

  25. Anonymous[720] • Disclaimer says:

    Right now the healthcare system needs all the dead bodies they can get their hands on!

    The flu season is ending and tons of covid deaths need to be reclassified from some other source.

    Until the election blue state death tolls will keep spiking come hell or high water.

  26. @Covid-19 Explorer
    One daughter is a nurse at Cedars Sinai. She works in internal medicine and is not busy. Her BF is an ICU nurse at another hospital and he's still working regular hours. He's seen two CV-19 cases.

    I am one of those infrastructure "essential services" providers and have some official-looking letters to carry with me should I encounter a police roadblock. That won't happen. I canceled a routine colonoscopy procedure though. There's going to be a backlog on routine medicine and dentistry come July. And it's probably as good a time as any to have a heart attack.

    Just some random observations from SoCal:

    * In Los Angeles, it is common to see a person wearing a mask while driving alone in a car with the windows rolled up.

    * In Buellton, it is uncommon to see anyone wearing a mask anywhere.

    * Rush hour traffic is slowing increasing throughout the Southland.

    * Mexicans never stopped working. I can't tell if they're Mexican Mexicans or American Mexicans, but the strawberries harvest in Oxnard, the home remodelling in San Marino, and landscaping goes on as usual. Good for them.

    * CalTrans and their contractors are running full blast to build and repair roads that would ordinarily be too congested to work on.

    * The News is impossible to listen to.

    * This a great time to own a sports car in Southern California.

    * Beach parking is closed all along the Gold Coast, but the surfers park along the 101 and surf anyway.

    This is a disaster for anyone who gets very sick from the virus and for almost all small retail businesses. But other things go on too.

    I have an “essential employee” letter from the Extremely Large Online Retailer where i work but haven’t had to show it and am sure I won’t. Traffic in the NY area has unquestionably picked up a lot in the last couple weeks, every day is more than the day before. On my way into work this afternoon (I work nights) I ran into the first volume-related slowdown since before all this, it was quite minor but still a watershed moment of sorts.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Day before shutdown: almost empty roads.
    Yesterday: COVID-19 needs to carry off a bunch more oldsters.
  27. Heart Attack or Stroke

    Or, as we say nowadays, “complications of Covid-19 infection”

  28. @Prosa123
    I have an "essential employee" letter from the Extremely Large Online Retailer where i work but haven't had to show it and am sure I won't. Traffic in the NY area has unquestionably picked up a lot in the last couple weeks, every day is more than the day before. On my way into work this afternoon (I work nights) I ran into the first volume-related slowdown since before all this, it was quite minor but still a watershed moment of sorts.

    Day before shutdown: almost empty roads.
    Yesterday: COVID-19 needs to carry off a bunch more oldsters.

  29. @Jane Plain
    WuFlu is a new disease. How could family advocacy help? I get the feeling doctors are winging it.

    How could family advocacy help?

    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you’re an inpatient. They’ll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse–often far worse. It doesn’t matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don’t have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Well put. My brother-in-law had some bad experiences both personally and with his aged mother, in hospitals. Having someone looking out for you personally in a hospital environment is essential. Hospital staff are all too human and may ignore situations requite immediate attention.

    I'm reminded of the scene in the 1972 movie The Hospital where George C. Scott is asking the psychotic murdering physician how he arranged his crime.

    Murderer: I pushed the call button next to my bed.

    George C. Scott: Why did you do that?

    Murderer: To ensure at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted privacy.
    , @Known Fact
    A word of general caution, not COVID-related -- don't assume your loved one is out of the woods if they move out from the hospital to a "rehab facility." These can also be negligent and infection-prone. My dad had a terrific hospital nearby, but the rehab stints were an adventure
    , @Jane Plain
    I have indeed has experience w/aged relatives & hospitals and it's my impression that they do what they do, regardless.

    And sometimes an over-zealous advocate can have the opposite effect of what's intended.
    , @JMcG
    True. My father was intubated years ago. My family took turns sitting with him there. I would hold his hand and read. I noticed one night that he stopped squeezing my hand with his right hand, though he would with his left. I immediately told the nurse and then the doctor on the floor that I suspected that he had suffered a stroke. They couldn’t have cared less. I think they thought he’d die soon.
    Well, he came off the vent a few days later and lived another 7 years, paralyzed on his right side and unable to talk or read.
    That was in a premier teaching hospital in a region known for its health care infrastructure.
    Please God, you’ll not catch me in a hospital on my last day.
  30. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    Nick Lowe Performs '(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding' From Home | In My Room
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tP5GsNIOqQ

    Nick Lowe played a handful of songs from his home in London for Rolling Stone‘s “In My Room,” an IGTV series in which musicians perform while in quarantine in wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Accompanied by his son, Roy, Lowe kicked off with the somber “Trombone,” a song he dropped last year off his EP, Starvation/Trombone. “I’ve been told time’s a healer,” he sings, strumming his acoustic guitar. “Still I can’t shake the love I lost.”

    Get the full story at: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nick-lowe-in-my-room-981816/
     

    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don’t love ‘Rolling Stone’ links around here.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/steve_sailer/status/795808604041269248
    , @Anonymous

    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don’t love ‘Rolling Stone’ links around here.
     
    Sabrina Rubin Erdely ?

    Wikipedia says she was personally found liable for $2,000,000. It would be interesting to see if and how that got paid.
  31. @Reg Cæsar
    She's a fair-skinned, blue-eyed strawberry blond. I thought that's what was in demand here.

    So you’re saying we’re all Jews and POCs around here, is that it? Hmm.

  32. @trelane
    Will extroverts and covidiots fall under negative selection and be wiped out in a population sweep due to covid19?

    Oh, and how old is the average case fatality?

    Imagine a disease immune to its host evolving immunity because it only kills the old.

    In New York the median CV fatality is 73 years-old.
    Only 4% of the CV deaths are under the age of 50

    • Replies: @Jack D
    You're not going to find this in the stats, but median WHITE CV fatality age is more like 80. The younger deaths are disproportionately fat black people. They have trouble breathing on a good day. Probably a lot of those deaths are from unnecessarily ventilating them, which only makes things worse.

    Once you exclude old people and fat black people, deaths from CV are rare. Of course every one of those makes the news but the chances of a healthy white 25 year old dying from this are similar to their chances of being hit by lightning - they are not zero but they are extremely low. But we had to close all schools and universities for this.

  33. OT:


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren't many comedians who can make that claim.
    , @Jack Armstrong
    The pistol gesture is triggering.
  34. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    Nick Lowe Performs '(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding' From Home | In My Room
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tP5GsNIOqQ

    Nick Lowe played a handful of songs from his home in London for Rolling Stone‘s “In My Room,” an IGTV series in which musicians perform while in quarantine in wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Accompanied by his son, Roy, Lowe kicked off with the somber “Trombone,” a song he dropped last year off his EP, Starvation/Trombone. “I’ve been told time’s a healer,” he sings, strumming his acoustic guitar. “Still I can’t shake the love I lost.”

    Get the full story at: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nick-lowe-in-my-room-981816/
     

    I suppose that, by the time this pandemic has ended, there will be a handful of Marie Provosts found who “…became the doggie’s dinner…”

    • Replies: @Lot
    “ Marie Provosts found who “…became the doggie’s dinner…”“

    Maury Povich’s house often has doggie dinners.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/world/asia/dog-eaters-in-yulin-china-unbowed-by-global-derision.html
  35. @Mr McKenna
    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don't love 'Rolling Stone' links around here.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1251123517946544130

    Bob Dylan - I Contain Multitudes (Official Audio)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgEP8teNXwY
  36. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don't love 'Rolling Stone' links around here.

    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don’t love ‘Rolling Stone’ links around here.

    Sabrina Rubin Erdely ?

    Wikipedia says she was personally found liable for $2,000,000. It would be interesting to see if and how that got paid.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    You can't trust Wikipedia, Sabrina, or Rolling Stone.

    Jann Wenner paid her bill --chump change for him.

    What happened with the fraternity lawsuit though?
  37. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    She could queefster an Isetta for sure, maybe even a first gen Honda Civic.

  38. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:

    The ICUs are packed full of sick china-flu victims, the hallways are filled with the dead – they’re stacked like cord wood.
    One hundred million U.S citizens could potentially die of this horrible death thing, and you want malingers and ne’er-do-wells to block the ICU’s with their stupid heart attacks and strokes?
    This is crazy advice! we must flatten the curve because exponential something Death!

  39. • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Did she get it from Joe Exotic?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Hippo, check the zoo staff to see if any Chinese workers are missing. And in all seriousness, no one here can get tested for the virus, but a tiger can.
  40. • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    3,778 stiffs X $13,000 per kungflu stiff = $49 million

    It pays to retroactively deem ALL deaths as covums.

    Fake data, brought to you by Uncle Samantha.

    And you were excited about your $1,200 coronabonus 😂
  41. @Anonymous

    We love Nick Lowe but I hope you know why
    we don’t love ‘Rolling Stone’ links around here.
     
    Sabrina Rubin Erdely ?

    Wikipedia says she was personally found liable for $2,000,000. It would be interesting to see if and how that got paid.

    You can’t trust Wikipedia, Sabrina, or Rolling Stone.

    Jann Wenner paid her bill –chump change for him.

    What happened with the fraternity lawsuit though?

  42. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    If parents were completely honest, they’d tell you it’s really the only reason to have kids.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon


    my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    If parents were completely honest, they’d tell you it’s really the only reason to have kids.
     
    Parents who think that's the only reason to have kids might someday find themselves alone in a hospital with their kids nowhere around.
    , @Thatgirl
    As my husband likes to ask childless people "what are you going to do if you need a kidney?"
  43. Bit off subject. Here is a link to a very respectful, non-hysterical conversation between a Brit who hosts podcasts (pro lockdown) and a very senior Swedish epidemiologist. He explains the reasoning behind swedens very mild social distancing policies, he gives a predictions on Sweden’s eventual covid deaths, and he describes the problems with other countries approach. All in a matter of fact way. It is 35 minutes long and really worth the time.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden

    -UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
    -The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
    -This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
    -The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
    -The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
    -The paper was very much too pessimistic
    -Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
    -The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
    -The results will eventually be similar for all countries
    -Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
    -The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
    -“Certain” that at least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden have already had the disease

    • Replies: @res
    Thanks. That's a good video (both interviewer and Swedish expert being interviewed). I recommend going to YouTube where you can access a transcript and see comments.
    , @GermanReader2
    I do not think, that half of the population of the UK and Sweden has already had the disease. Even in the most (and earliest) affected town of Germany not more than 15 percent have tested positive for antibodies (and some virologists have said, that the tests have picked up antibodies for other coronaviruses)
  44. @jcd1974
    I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist). I wasn't allowed inside but was told the emergency room was virtually empty. No waiting, saw a doctor right away. Apparently they have never been this quiet.

    The parking lot was completely empty. I parked in the short term visitors section, didn't even have to pay!

    While I waited in the car not a single other car or patient arrived.

    I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist).

    Why would you use “they” and “their” in this instance rather than “he” or “she”?

    Is the feminist training is so very strong or is it just that you have a very strong impulse to conform and submit, no matter what nonsense it requires you to produce?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Thank you, Kim! That is a big pet peeve of mine, but it's too prevalent for me to make any corrections most times. That's except for the most egregious times: "There has been a recall, and a anyone who uses this brand douche should immediately return it for their money back." "The man suspected in the shooting was detained after returning to the scene to recover their gun."

    The feminists cowed Americans into the "their" thing years ago for use as the pronoun in cases of unknown sex. Now, a writer will use it even if he KNOWS the sex. It's getting pretty stupid.

    At elementary school, the kids are taught, via example, to use "people" when talking about "boys" or "girls".

    We have manuals at work that are very much safety related. They are written with the use of "their" for the singular, and it's confusing as hell sometimes, even when you know what the writers are up to. "Wait a minute - both of us are supposed to do this, or just the one?"
    , @Carol
    I've never understood the vague usage of "they/them" when gender is known and uncontested.

    It's confusing because it reads as if some new unknown players got involved.
  45. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    That may be true for middling intellects. But if you are not of middling intellect, and you want your relative or loved-one to get better and live, it’s better to be in the Hospital, advocating the case of the person you are there for. Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can’t necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It’s better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

    • Replies: @Kyle
    Unless you’re a doctor, when it comes to medicine you’re of middling intellect.
    , @William Badwhite

    Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can’t necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It’s better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.
     
    Exactly. Doctors and nurses often work 24-hour shifts so are exhausted at times, doctors often have illegible hand-writing, nurses are sometimes fairly low-IQ in addition to being exhausted. Johns Hopkins University published a study a few years ago claiming medical errors were the 3rd leading cause of death.

    https://hub.jhu.edu/2016/05/03/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death/

    Since its publication the Makary study has come under scrutiny and the real number is likely much lower:

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-medical-errors-really-the-third-most-common-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/

    The actual number isn't the point, the point is that the number is non-zero and in many cases the errors are basic things that someone merely paying attention would catch. A good friend of the Badwhites spent most of a month in reputable Florida hospital acting as an advocate for her father who was recovering from a stroke. There were at least 4 occasions where she caught an error (medication different from what was prescribed; correction medication but wrong dose, etc). Its unlikely any of these mistakes would have been fatal, but they were mistakes. Doctors and nurses are humans and thus can make mistakes.

  46. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1249467349989765120
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1251383695354638338

    https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/1248381445388689410
    https://twitter.com/shamblanderson/status/1251236802075254786

    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren’t many comedians who can make that claim.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren’t many comedians who can make that claim.
     
    It would be far more accurate to say there aren’t many comedy fans who would make your claim.
  47. @Rouetheday
    I suppose that, by the time this pandemic has ended, there will be a handful of Marie Provosts found who "...became the doggie's dinner..."

    “ Marie Provosts found who “…became the doggie’s dinner…”“

    Maury Povich’s house often has doggie dinners.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/world/asia/dog-eaters-in-yulin-china-unbowed-by-global-derision.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Maury Povich’s house often has doggie dinners.
     
    Wonder what his dad Shirley thought of that.
  48. They Should Run PSAs Encouraging People to Call 911 if They Are Having a Heart Attack or Stroke

    …or a bad hair day:

    Black Americans Pick Alternative Hairstyles in light of Social Distancing

  49. @Mr McKenna

    How could family advocacy help?
     
    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you're an inpatient. They'll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse--often far worse. It doesn't matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.

    Well put. My brother-in-law had some bad experiences both personally and with his aged mother, in hospitals. Having someone looking out for you personally in a hospital environment is essential. Hospital staff are all too human and may ignore situations requite immediate attention.

    I’m reminded of the scene in the 1972 movie The Hospital where George C. Scott is asking the psychotic murdering physician how he arranged his crime.

    Murderer: I pushed the call button next to my bed.

    George C. Scott: Why did you do that?

    Murderer: To ensure at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted privacy.

  50. At this stage, why is anyone paying any attention at all to the medical establishment? We were told that we had to crater the economy, throw ten million people out of work, and endure civil liberty infringements that Nazi Germany or the Stalinist USSR might have found slightly oppressive. And why? Well, we had to “flatten the curve,” or hospitals would be overwhelmed and, as John Derbyshire put it, we’d have to watch geezers on gurneys coughing their lungs out in hospital parking lots. Now, in what was supposed to have been the height of the epidemic, hospital ERs are nearly empty and hospital staff are being furloughed. And hospitals and doctors complain that they’re not seeing enough heart attacks and strokes. Madness!

    Get back to work, take off the mask (we’re not Asians), wash your hands, be careful around aged and already-sick persons, but otherwise, let dignity be restored to the people!

    • Replies: @theMann
    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.


    You know what "Medical Professionals" are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching "we can't use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah" even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech "you MUST have this vaccine" while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren't working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don't interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.


    And to top it all off, the "Medical Professionals" are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn't cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.


    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current "crisis". Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    , @Brás Cubas

    take off the mask (we’re not Asians)
     
    Ban hydroxychloroquine -- we're not trumpists.
    , @Jack D

    take off the mask (we’re not Asians)
     
    Yes, better to die than look Asian.
    , @Hail

    Well, we had to “flatten the curve,” or hospitals would be overwhelmed
     
    It's strange: (1) how little this was questioned, and (2) how wrong even this "swamped hospitals" thing turned out to be. As many commenters and Steve himself notes here, hospitals have never been emptier.

    It turns out that creating a top-down Panic has unpredictable consequences. This stunning insight should be noted and studied.

    Was anyone, in mid-March or thereabouts, predicting "empty hospitals" (except certain Crazy Corona Hoaxers™)?

    The whole thing feels in one sense like a giant, evil social experiment.

  51. PS: In the last couple years of his life, my father was hospitalized two or three times. He HATED hospitals (they are always poking you!) and would have died within 24 hours if my Mother was not there. We then made a deal that unless he fell down the stairs and broke his arm, we would let him die on the floor. Without loved ones and a Priest, hospitals are Hell. I cannot imagine the current situation. I truly hope the guilty pay for this. But who am I kidding?

    • Replies: @John Achterhof
    Along the line of what you wrote, it seems to me that a society well disposed to both life and death would regard hospitalization a resource for those who have a fighting chance to be restored to well-being - including some of its elderly. Perhaps this new factor of the virus has given those at the end of the road, exhausted of life and sick enough to die, who might otherwise follow without a thought the rut of their technocratic society, to consider the blessing to themselves, their family and their society of dying at home.
  52. @Barnard
    I wonder how many people don't know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don't see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.

    Yes, it’s been weird witnessing the ongoing stream of ‘Omigod we’re overwhelmed we’ve never seen anything like it we’re working 120 hours a week’ mainstream media profiles of critical care medical staff, and then to flip over to FB and see one hospital staff song-n-dance video after another.

    I’m sure there are some very busy hospitals, but the way the use of health care capacity has been warped during this COVID-19 crisis is remarkable.

    • Agree: Hail
  53. Wait, if the hospitals are not overwhelmed, why are we still on lockdown? Wasn’t that the whole point? Cause the hospitals would all be overwhelmed and preventable deaths and all that?

    Somebody, please, sanity check: Why are we on lockdown?

    • Replies: @Hail

    Somebody, please, sanity check: Why are we on lockdown?
     
    You are in the Twilight Zone.

    This episode's length is being determined, ad hoc, by members of the Corona Committee for Public Safety. But then it turns out they are actually aliens, They Live-style.

    "Don't touch that dial."

  54. @Diversity Heretic
    At this stage, why is anyone paying any attention at all to the medical establishment? We were told that we had to crater the economy, throw ten million people out of work, and endure civil liberty infringements that Nazi Germany or the Stalinist USSR might have found slightly oppressive. And why? Well, we had to "flatten the curve," or hospitals would be overwhelmed and, as John Derbyshire put it, we'd have to watch geezers on gurneys coughing their lungs out in hospital parking lots. Now, in what was supposed to have been the height of the epidemic, hospital ERs are nearly empty and hospital staff are being furloughed. And hospitals and doctors complain that they're not seeing enough heart attacks and strokes. Madness!

    Get back to work, take off the mask (we're not Asians), wash your hands, be careful around aged and already-sick persons, but otherwise, let dignity be restored to the people!

    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.

    You know what “Medical Professionals” are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching “we can’t use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah” even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech “you MUST have this vaccine” while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren’t working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don’t interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.

    And to top it all off, the “Medical Professionals” are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn’t cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.

    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current “crisis”. Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    • Disagree: Thea
    • Replies: @onetwothree
    What is it with cranks and Vitamin C?

    You can get all the Vitamin C you want, pal. Massive doses are available at Walmart for next to nothing. And if "they" outlaw it, you can always get lemons and quince preserves. Geez.
    , @njguy73
    I'll see your Lister and Pasteur and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?
    , @Thea
    Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter.

    Sure, mistakes get made and it is imperfect. On the balance, the overwhelming majority of people with access to medical professionals live longer and more comfortably than their ancestors without it.

    , @Jack D

    With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years
     
    First of all, I'm not sure that's true. Lots of cities are reporting considerable excess deaths vs. prior years. Sources?

    2nd, locking everyone in their house not only cuts down on Wuhan Virus transmission, but all other communicable diseases such as seasonal flu. The company that makes the internet connected fever thermometers says that fevers are WAY down all over the country vs. normal. It also improves air quality, reduces car accidents, work injuries, etc. In fact it is so good that we should just keep everyone locked up forever!
  55. @John Derbyshire
    https://imgur.com/gallery/3ziWl

    A shot of snake blood and thus was humanity jump started.

  56. … my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    Perhaps. What concerns me, however, is the high correlation between hospital visits and death even when we aren’t in a pandemic.

    Seriously. One of the bigger killers in America is bad medical care in hospitals:

    Using a weighted average of the 4 studies, a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year was associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the Global Trigger Tool and the incompleteness of medical records on which the Tool depends, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year. Serious harm seems to be 10- to 20-fold more common than lethal harm.

    source: https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/09000/A_New,_Evidence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx

  57. @I am Robert
    PS: In the last couple years of his life, my father was hospitalized two or three times. He HATED hospitals (they are always poking you!) and would have died within 24 hours if my Mother was not there. We then made a deal that unless he fell down the stairs and broke his arm, we would let him die on the floor. Without loved ones and a Priest, hospitals are Hell. I cannot imagine the current situation. I truly hope the guilty pay for this. But who am I kidding?

    Along the line of what you wrote, it seems to me that a society well disposed to both life and death would regard hospitalization a resource for those who have a fighting chance to be restored to well-being – including some of its elderly. Perhaps this new factor of the virus has given those at the end of the road, exhausted of life and sick enough to die, who might otherwise follow without a thought the rut of their technocratic society, to consider the blessing to themselves, their family and their society of dying at home.

  58. @miss marple
    Have I been transferred over to the dark web?

    It’s Roxane Gay after her corona bleaching

  59. @Mr. Anon
    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren't many comedians who can make that claim.

    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren’t many comedians who can make that claim.

    It would be far more accurate to say there aren’t many comedy fans who would make your claim.

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    It would be far more accurate to say there aren’t many comedy fans who would make your claim.
     
    And what do you consider to be funny?
  60. The only PSA needed is one that says,

    ‘Sorry folks. We were wrong about everything. We were completely overwhelmed by the moment and overreacted. Go back about your business, and use common sense–which of course means you should ignore us going forward.’

    • Agree: Federalist
  61. @Kim

    I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist).
     
    Why would you use "they" and "their" in this instance rather than "he" or "she"?

    Is the feminist training is so very strong or is it just that you have a very strong impulse to conform and submit, no matter what nonsense it requires you to produce?

    Thank you, Kim! That is a big pet peeve of mine, but it’s too prevalent for me to make any corrections most times. That’s except for the most egregious times: “There has been a recall, and a anyone who uses this brand douche should immediately return it for their money back.” “The man suspected in the shooting was detained after returning to the scene to recover their gun.”

    The feminists cowed Americans into the “their” thing years ago for use as the pronoun in cases of unknown sex. Now, a writer will use it even if he KNOWS the sex. It’s getting pretty stupid.

    At elementary school, the kids are taught, via example, to use “people” when talking about “boys” or “girls”.

    We have manuals at work that are very much safety related. They are written with the use of “their” for the singular, and it’s confusing as hell sometimes, even when you know what the writers are up to. “Wait a minute – both of us are supposed to do this, or just the one?”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Such people might be happier living among those whose languages don't [en]gender their pronouns. Tongues such as Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish, and Yoruba.

    English is the rare Indo-European language which lacks gender for nouns. You'd think they'd be happy with that. But, no, they want us to learn Spanish.


    (Personally, I like how Russian genders the verbs as well as the nouns: Уродливый человек ушел / Уродливая женщина ушла / Уродливое такси
    оставили )

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages

    From the sanest person in that insane documentary:

    Tiger King's Saff Didn't Care About Being Misgendered


    A lot of these "modern" errors were common four hundred years ago, too. What happened in the meantime is that various wordsmiths cracked down, some well (Johnson, Fowler), some not so well (Lowth), some controversially (Webster).
  62. @Diversity Heretic
    At this stage, why is anyone paying any attention at all to the medical establishment? We were told that we had to crater the economy, throw ten million people out of work, and endure civil liberty infringements that Nazi Germany or the Stalinist USSR might have found slightly oppressive. And why? Well, we had to "flatten the curve," or hospitals would be overwhelmed and, as John Derbyshire put it, we'd have to watch geezers on gurneys coughing their lungs out in hospital parking lots. Now, in what was supposed to have been the height of the epidemic, hospital ERs are nearly empty and hospital staff are being furloughed. And hospitals and doctors complain that they're not seeing enough heart attacks and strokes. Madness!

    Get back to work, take off the mask (we're not Asians), wash your hands, be careful around aged and already-sick persons, but otherwise, let dignity be restored to the people!

    take off the mask (we’re not Asians)

    Ban hydroxychloroquine — we’re not trumpists.

  63. Many people are probably not aware that hospitals are mostly pretty empty right now.

    Surprising. It’s almost like that’s intentional.

  64. Here’s another concern, although I don’t know what to do about it. Hospitals have been locking out family members of patients

    I poured gasoline and threw a lit match on it. Now there’s a fire but I don’t know what to do about it.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  65. “A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.”

    Huh? You’ve obviously never been in a hospital. Visitors have virtually nothing to do with a doctor’s or nurse’s schedule, and doctors and nurses spend very little time ‘treating’ the ill.

    Treating illness basically means laying in bed and waiting for it to go away. That process may be (usually is) aided by administration of drugs, but there is really very little that doctors and nurses actually do-other than prescribe, and administer, those drugs, then check on them 8, or 24 hours, later.

    “…explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.”

    Its usually the opposite-patients have to explain the same thing over and over to different individuals (nurse in training, then nurse. Resident, then doctor. Hospitalist resident, then hospitalist. Specialist resident, then specialist. Primary care resident, then primary care physician. Repeat as shifts change, and so on).

    Are you under the impression that if doctors had more time with patients, they would be at the bedside for hours at a time, doing something?

    joe

  66. “my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you”

    Just now I was phoned by an acquaintance. She had cared for her disabled brother over more than a decade (he was mentally disabled by epileptical attacks and couldn’t advocate for himself). Then he had to go to a hospital, and shortly after she was forbidden to visit him (Corona). When she was away, they stopped feeding him – and when she could visit him again, he already was extremely emaciated, unable to swallow and died shortly after. She made extreme efforts to get a doctor speaking to her and he simply told her that her brother with his particular health condition had reached the average age for such people and anyway had no quality of life, also he had told them that “he didn’t want to eat”.
    I now understand better why people don’t want to go into a hospital.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Anecdotal evidence from UK (promised I wouldn't be more specific) of a doctor telling elderly patients on a Covid-19 ward "we're not going to resuscitate you anyway, so why not sign this form to say you don't want to be resuscitated?".

    You definitely need a younger family member fighting your corner.
    , @Sol
    I hope he wasn't a registered organ donor.
  67. @Kim

    I had to take a relative to what is ordinarily a busy suburban hospital last weekend (they fell and broke their wrist).
     
    Why would you use "they" and "their" in this instance rather than "he" or "she"?

    Is the feminist training is so very strong or is it just that you have a very strong impulse to conform and submit, no matter what nonsense it requires you to produce?

    I’ve never understood the vague usage of “they/them” when gender is known and uncontested.

    It’s confusing because it reads as if some new unknown players got involved.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    I have this fight on Reddit all the time. Someone will refer to their "spouse" as "they". I will innocently ask if the poster is in a polyamorous relationship.
  68. @Anon
    Here’s an actual PSA from LA:
    Masks Not Required on Los Angeles Trains, Buses & Subways
    LOS ANGELES COUNTY METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY

    UPDATING: Metro COVID-19 news and service information, April 17

    L.A. County has mandated face coverings for everyone when in public engaging in essential activities. While face coverings are not required to ride Metro, we recommend all transit riders wear face coverings and/or masks on our buses and trains as well.

    https://thesource.metro.net/2020/03/03/metro-coordinating-with-l-a-county-department-of-public-health-in-response-to-recent-reports-of-covid-19/
     

    🤦‍♂️

    I suspect mandating a mask on public transit would cause enforcement issues. I saw a Twitter video of police having to physically remove one of the usual suspects from a bus in a city that did require masks. Wouldn’t take many such incidents before one set off a larger social disturbance.

  69. @Barnard
    I wonder how many people don't know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don't see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.

    I wonder how many people don’t know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don’t see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.

    Far be it from me to suggest … rationality!

    But why not have some hospitals be allowed to simply not take Covid-19–or for that matter any sort of “infectious disease”–patients and explicitly state they are ready to roll, not just for emergencies–trauma, heart attacks, strokes–but cancer treatment, joint replacements, general surgeries, gall bladders, etc. etc. etc.?

    Infectious disease is really it’s own category. And really Covid-19 patients don’t really need much of what’s in hospitals. Set them up in empty college dorms or barracks of military bases–CPAP machines, oxygen concentrators, and stocked pharmacies with all the promising drugs.

    Let’s get hospitals back in business so they can start killing people again and we can get this slumping death rate back up!

    • Thanks: Meretricious
    • Replies: @njguy73
    How about all the abandoned strip mills, big box stores, and office buildings which were unoccupied before Covid19?
  70. @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    One of the noteworthy aspects of modern life is that our “elites” insist on rubbing our noses in ugliness. In fact–unless we truly reject modern life and go Amish–more or less pinning our eyes open Clockwork Orange style and making us look–making their ugliness inescapable.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    Going Amish is looking better every day.
  71. @theMann
    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.


    You know what "Medical Professionals" are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching "we can't use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah" even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech "you MUST have this vaccine" while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren't working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don't interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.


    And to top it all off, the "Medical Professionals" are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn't cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.


    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current "crisis". Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    What is it with cranks and Vitamin C?

    You can get all the Vitamin C you want, pal. Massive doses are available at Walmart for next to nothing. And if “they” outlaw it, you can always get lemons and quince preserves. Geez.

  72. @Mr. Anon

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.
     
    That may be true for middling intellects. But if you are not of middling intellect, and you want your relative or loved-one to get better and live, it's better to be in the Hospital, advocating the case of the person you are there for. Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can't necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It's better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

    Unless you’re a doctor, when it comes to medicine you’re of middling intellect.

    • LOL: Meretricious
  73. @Reg Cæsar

    ...you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Within reason.



    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a97928_monument_5-fat-lady.jpg

    If this is what we were supposed to worship in the Earth Goddess cults then I think I’ll go see what that Sky God of Thunder and Lightning thing is all about.

  74. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    We walked by the local hospital today , Was strange to see signs along the roads and streets leading go to the hospital all stating that Visitors were not allowed.

    no visitors are permitted whatsoever. Does not matter the reason you need medical care , wives and husbands and children are banned from visiting their loved ones in the local hospital.

    This foolishness is very destructive and is not saving lives, but will increase the anxiety and stress of families.

    I suppose if the United States was able to manufacture enough masks and hydrochloroquine we would not be in this predicament.

    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.

    • Replies: @Federalist
    Yeah, but what's our MO?
    , @Sam Malone
    "MO" must be a term you recently heard and want to use it now as much as you can. But you don't understand how to use it correctly.
    , @Aeronerauk
    Hey, you know what they say, MO money MO problems.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Who cares about visitors in hospitals?
     
    That visitor in the hospital might be the only person there who really cares about the patient. The absence of visiting family in hospitals during this crisis might be one of the reasons for the abnormally high death-rates.

    And anyway, last time I checked, America is supposed to be a free democratic Republic, not a public-health-dictatorship.
  75. @AnotherDad
    One of the noteworthy aspects of modern life is that our "elites" insist on rubbing our noses in ugliness. In fact--unless we truly reject modern life and go Amish--more or less pinning our eyes open Clockwork Orange style and making us look--making their ugliness inescapable.

    Going Amish is looking better every day.

  76. @AnotherDad

    I wonder how many people don’t know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don’t see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.
     

    Far be it from me to suggest ... rationality!

    But why not have some hospitals be allowed to simply not take Covid-19--or for that matter any sort of "infectious disease"--patients and explicitly state they are ready to roll, not just for emergencies--trauma, heart attacks, strokes--but cancer treatment, joint replacements, general surgeries, gall bladders, etc. etc. etc.?

    Infectious disease is really it's own category. And really Covid-19 patients don't really need much of what's in hospitals. Set them up in empty college dorms or barracks of military bases--CPAP machines, oxygen concentrators, and stocked pharmacies with all the promising drugs.

    Let's get hospitals back in business so they can start killing people again and we can get this slumping death rate back up!

    How about all the abandoned strip mills, big box stores, and office buildings which were unoccupied before Covid19?

  77. @theMann
    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.


    You know what "Medical Professionals" are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching "we can't use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah" even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech "you MUST have this vaccine" while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren't working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don't interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.


    And to top it all off, the "Medical Professionals" are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn't cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.


    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current "crisis". Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    I’ll see your Lister and Pasteur and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ...and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?
     
    He got the highest honor our modern world has to bestow-- a Google doodle.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8OX0FNWANM


    I'm pretty sure 2020's wasn't the first of these, but can't seem to find an earlier one.
    , @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1235587876081012736?lang=en

    https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1245336209171374081
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

     

    LOL That crazy conspiracy theorist Ignaz Semmelweis? Didn't Snopes debunk him?


    Semmelweis's hypothesis...was largely ignored, rejected, or ridiculed. He was dismissed from the hospital for political reasons and harassed by the medical community in Vienna, being eventually forced to move to Budapest.
    ...
    His contemporaries, including his wife, believed he was losing his mind, and in 1865, nearly twenty years after his breakthrough, he was committed to the Landesirrenanstalt Döbling (provincial lunatic asylum). He died there of septic shock only 14 days later, possibly as the result of being severely beaten by guards.

     

  78. @Mr McKenna

    How could family advocacy help?
     
    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you're an inpatient. They'll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse--often far worse. It doesn't matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.

    A word of general caution, not COVID-related — don’t assume your loved one is out of the woods if they move out from the hospital to a “rehab facility.” These can also be negligent and infection-prone. My dad had a terrific hospital nearby, but the rehab stints were an adventure

    • Agree: Meretricious
  79. I’ve always loved those big hospital billboards on the interstate in South Florida with a digital display showing “Emergency room waiting time is currently XX minutes”

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Me too. Hey, the wait time is down to 15 minutes! Let's go!
  80. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    Screw you.

    I, too, have worked in the hospital for plenty of years. I’ve seen the mistakes. Made a few myself, AND SO HAVE YOU… and in some cases the family member pointed it out in time to save my patient the bad effects of a mis-administration and myself a black mark on my employment record.

    Not to mention the little children, already sick and miserable and terrified enough, being subjected to even more fear and trauma because Mommy’s not allowed to come in with him into that scary room filled with strangers in scary masks.

    I’m perfectly happy to spend 30 seconds directing a family member to the cafeteria. And explaining things to the spouse who loves that man IS OUR JOB.

    Screw you and your efficiency.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    All these medical "professionals" want is to be left alone in peace. So they can kill patients with greater efficiency. Is that asking so much? Let's get you ventilated now.
  81. @theMann
    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.


    You know what "Medical Professionals" are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching "we can't use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah" even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech "you MUST have this vaccine" while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren't working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don't interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.


    And to top it all off, the "Medical Professionals" are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn't cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.


    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current "crisis". Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter.

    Sure, mistakes get made and it is imperfect. On the balance, the overwhelming majority of people with access to medical professionals live longer and more comfortably than their ancestors without it.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter."

    Breathtaking ignorance. Infant mortality has declined steeply in the last 130 years. Throw out the dead babies, and our ancestors always averaged about 70- to 80-year lifespans.
  82. They should. However, this is absolutely the worst time to have any sort of medical emergency.

    Trauma, heart attack, stroke, appendicitis, diabetic coma, pulmonary embolism, trauma, kidney failure, bacterial pneumonia, cancer — you name it — it’s all being diagnosed and managed as COVID-19 (even with negative PCR results), and patients do not receive the standard of care.

    Huge amount of medical error/malpractice going on. Can you imagine if you had a heart attack, and the doctor convinces you that you have COVID-19, and you are put on a ventilator due to acute heart failure? That’s a death sentence right there.

  83. I don’t know about TV but there’s no PSA airtime available on radio, now that every single local company is emphasizing that my well-being is their number one concern in these challenging times. Plus one area dealership can reassuringly see to all my “new Cadillac needs” with a “no-contact” deal and delivery.

  84. @Travis
    In New York the median CV fatality is 73 years-old.
    Only 4% of the CV deaths are under the age of 50

    You’re not going to find this in the stats, but median WHITE CV fatality age is more like 80. The younger deaths are disproportionately fat black people. They have trouble breathing on a good day. Probably a lot of those deaths are from unnecessarily ventilating them, which only makes things worse.

    Once you exclude old people and fat black people, deaths from CV are rare. Of course every one of those makes the news but the chances of a healthy white 25 year old dying from this are similar to their chances of being hit by lightning – they are not zero but they are extremely low. But we had to close all schools and universities for this.

  85. @theMann
    Why have we ever been listening to these buffoons of the Medical Establishment? As a group, they are the most astounding collection of incompetents in any profession. Want a simple proof of this? With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years. Or another, obviously related, proof? Medical mistakes kill half a million people in the US every year.


    You know what "Medical Professionals" are? The people that locked up Lister and Pasteur while denying the germ theory of disease, despite the fact that the Microscope had been invented 200 years earlier. These are the people screeching "we can't use hydrochloroquinine because no double blind tests blah blah blah" even though their own eyes can confirm that the medication works: but at the same time screech "you MUST have this vaccine" while not even permitting double blind test on their ability to work, and despite the ever increasing mountain of evidence that many modern vaccines aren't working well at all. These are the people who are trying to Legally prevent you from using items as diverse as Vitamin C, Saw Palmetto, and a thousand other Supplements/preventatives, for hundreds of diseases, Because, don't interrupt their cash cows while they are killing you.


    And to top it all off, the "Medical Professionals" are people who are systematically engaging in massive medical fraud, claiming Covid-19 as a cause of death in cases where patients have died of Lung Cancer, Pneumonia, and Tuberculosis. Not to mention that these are the people who claim they couldn't cope with a low level seasonal Winter virus, even though these events occur once every eight years or so with amazing regularity.


    And these creatures, living at the corner of Fraud and Stupendous Shit-Ass incompetence, are a group we are expected to forfeit our Rights and Liberties to? Shame on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has bowed down in the current "crisis". Especially the lying, cowardly Politicians.

    With the hospitals emptied out, deaths for March 2020 were 15% LOWER than the average of March the last four years

    First of all, I’m not sure that’s true. Lots of cities are reporting considerable excess deaths vs. prior years. Sources?

    2nd, locking everyone in their house not only cuts down on Wuhan Virus transmission, but all other communicable diseases such as seasonal flu. The company that makes the internet connected fever thermometers says that fevers are WAY down all over the country vs. normal. It also improves air quality, reduces car accidents, work injuries, etc. In fact it is so good that we should just keep everyone locked up forever!

  86. @Diversity Heretic
    At this stage, why is anyone paying any attention at all to the medical establishment? We were told that we had to crater the economy, throw ten million people out of work, and endure civil liberty infringements that Nazi Germany or the Stalinist USSR might have found slightly oppressive. And why? Well, we had to "flatten the curve," or hospitals would be overwhelmed and, as John Derbyshire put it, we'd have to watch geezers on gurneys coughing their lungs out in hospital parking lots. Now, in what was supposed to have been the height of the epidemic, hospital ERs are nearly empty and hospital staff are being furloughed. And hospitals and doctors complain that they're not seeing enough heart attacks and strokes. Madness!

    Get back to work, take off the mask (we're not Asians), wash your hands, be careful around aged and already-sick persons, but otherwise, let dignity be restored to the people!

    take off the mask (we’re not Asians)

    Yes, better to die than look Asian.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Wtf? Right above you pointed out that it's not at all deadly for nearly everyone. "Deaths from CV are rare."
  87. @epebble
    That has all sorts of dilemmas:

    1. Which is more probable - that of getting Covid in hospital or dying at home because of heart attack/stroke?

    2. If one has to assume, from the hospital perspective, all incoming patients are Covid positive (till proven otherwise), how well can they handle a heart attack/stroke victim as comorbid with Covid? e.g. How can the EMT administer, say, mouth to mouth resuscitation to a presumed Covid positive. Especially in the absence of robust PPE. Remember also, Covid tests are not readily available (have many days wait list).

    Considering the complexities, it may be easier to let sleeping dogs lie rather than burden healthcare workers with more trouble.
    • Thanks: epebble
    • Replies: @epebble
    Thank you, I will get one of these. Now they should learn to use AED in a presumed Covid manner.
  88. @Anonymous

    my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    If parents were completely honest, they’d tell you it’s really the only reason to have kids.

    my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    If parents were completely honest, they’d tell you it’s really the only reason to have kids.

    Parents who think that’s the only reason to have kids might someday find themselves alone in a hospital with their kids nowhere around.

  89. @Barnard
    I wonder how many people don't know about empty hospitals. Nearly every city of any size has had a news report of a hospital furloughing workers. The people who don't see the news have most likely seen at least one TikTok video of nurses doing a dance routine. Maybe instead of this PSA they should start doing elective surgeries and screenings for serious illnesses again.

    the wait for a routine mammogram takes you to June 5 in my town. They’re only taking people who have breast cancer or if the doctor says, “RIGHT NOW.”

    Result? The imaging centers are empty. Why is this necessary? Those places are not hospitals.

    Also, dentists. They’re the cleanest places in town, yet they’re shut down for everything except emergencies. I should tell them that the coffee stains on my teeth are a serious emotional emergency for me.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    stillCA, I posted this a few days ago, but I had to see my doctor about a possible blood clot in my calf. I was told to call in when I reached the office. No one else there. Doc, in full garb checked and sent me for a sonogram. No one else there. Actually a good time to be sick or injured with a non life threatening illness or injury.
  90. Well, one fortunate thing is that what with all the virus cases crime in New York is almost nonexistent.
    Right?

  91. @John Derbyshire
    https://imgur.com/gallery/3ziWl

    This, at least, explains why that pesky Stone Age lasted so long.

    They ate the snake, got COVID9999bc, and cave-society patriarchs panicked and called for a shutdown of all hunting.

  92. @epebble
    That has all sorts of dilemmas:

    1. Which is more probable - that of getting Covid in hospital or dying at home because of heart attack/stroke?

    2. If one has to assume, from the hospital perspective, all incoming patients are Covid positive (till proven otherwise), how well can they handle a heart attack/stroke victim as comorbid with Covid? e.g. How can the EMT administer, say, mouth to mouth resuscitation to a presumed Covid positive. Especially in the absence of robust PPE. Remember also, Covid tests are not readily available (have many days wait list).

    Considering the complexities, it may be easier to let sleeping dogs lie rather than burden healthcare workers with more trouble.

    Heard today from a friend whose mom fell in assisted living, had to be taken to a CT hospital and now apparently has the virus. It might not be clear if she caught it at the hospital or beforehand at the home, which could really set off some alarm bells

    • Replies: @epebble
    Multiply the problem by thousands, and we have quite a veritable hell of a dilemma. I don't know what to do if I have a non-life threatening emergency, say, a minor fracture, that is not fixable by telemedicine. I know that most hospitals are universally PPE deficient, hence don't wan't to play the Russian roulette of picking up the virus while getting a fracture fixed.
  93. Spain to spray disinfectants over cities:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/spain-authorizes-military-planes-spray-disinfectants-over-cities

    It’s almost as if the governments of the World were doing everything in their power to vindicate Alex Jones.

    Now we’ll even have chem-trails.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    Didn't Alex Jones say in January, that the virus came from a lab? He was way ahead of the time.
  94. Anon[120] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve had a major heart attack and a couple of strokes in the last few years (in my 40’s). The stroke was particularly scary because you can feel it coming on. You feel it first in the head. Then— in my case— the whole right side of my body went numb. The first thought when it’s coming on is, “Oh shit, this is not good.” The second thought is about loved ones, death, and the afterlife.

    In the initial weeks of the quarantine I was having major chest pains or would feel the signs of a stroke coming on. My self-employment (LLC) was totally wiped out and not coming back. I was really stressed out. If not for the quarantine I would’ve called 911. Instead I fought it, mentally, physically, and with baby aspirin.

    But then I saw the lines at grocery stores, deserted streets, people wearing masks and a weird peace came over me. Like we’re all in this together. My stress evaporated like my 401k in March and was replaced with a sense of optimism. For the first time in a long time. I have to start over totally but knowing we’re all in this together has energized me.

    I haven’t had a recurrence of chest pains or feelings of an incipient stroke.

    • Thanks: GalenMD
    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "I have to start over totally but knowing we’re all in this together has energized me."

    Preach it, brother. Join us, the tens of millions of Americans not participating in coronahoax. We are Stronger Together, and together we will triumph over tyranny, ignorance, lies, and smug virtue-signalling.

    #CoronaHoax
  95. @Anonymous

    my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    If parents were completely honest, they’d tell you it’s really the only reason to have kids.

    As my husband likes to ask childless people “what are you going to do if you need a kidney?”

    • Replies: @Peterike
    “ As my husband likes to ask childless people “what are you going to do if you need a kidney?”

    What the hell kind of parent would take a kidney from their child?
    , @Paul Mendez
    I have two nieces, sisters, who have been estranged since college. That’s what I tell them.
  96. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1249467349989765120
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1251383695354638338

    https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/1248381445388689410
    https://twitter.com/shamblanderson/status/1251236802075254786

    The pistol gesture is triggering.

  97. Hail says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman
    It should be "but my suspicion", Steve. As king of typos, I tend to catch these things.

    It's been pretty sad to hear from a nurse family member how the friends and family can not visit the hospital. Some of the patients would have died with or without, but, man, it can be a bad deal having no loved ones around. Was this all a big mistake too?

    As for the PSA's, who's this "they" anyway? Maybe "they" should not have been making up some TV reports showing the hospitals overflowing in the first place.

    As for the PSA’s, who’s this “they” anyway? Maybe “they” should not have been making up some TV reports showing the hospitals overflowing in the first place.

    Scenario 1. A king orders a series of giant ditches dug. He organizes teams of peasants and others to fill in the ditches. Having filled in the ditches, the emergency ditch diggers are dismissed with applause and acclaim. But they’ve disrupted the soil of local farmland, threatening local farmers, and the kingdom with starvation. Quick, hire another team to bring in fresh soil from elsewhere. They do so. But they too, have built ditches, and some of them are blocking roads, disrupting the flow of goods of all kind. Now a third team can be called up to fill in those new ditches. All along, have the royal scribes to blare scare-stories about ditches. There could be a ditch coming for you at any time. Everyone has a part to play in the Fight Against Ditches! We’re All in It Together.

    Scenario 2. Don’t dig a series of giant ditches. End.

  98. @PiltdownMan

    Who made that out of what and why?
     
    I see that a German artist named Miriam Lenk made it out of fiberglass and plastic. Her style appears to have moved on from fat lady statues.

    https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Sculpture-cumulus/76429/327051/view

    https://www.saatchiart.com/account/artworks/76429

    Lesbian.

  99. Hail says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    At this stage, why is anyone paying any attention at all to the medical establishment? We were told that we had to crater the economy, throw ten million people out of work, and endure civil liberty infringements that Nazi Germany or the Stalinist USSR might have found slightly oppressive. And why? Well, we had to "flatten the curve," or hospitals would be overwhelmed and, as John Derbyshire put it, we'd have to watch geezers on gurneys coughing their lungs out in hospital parking lots. Now, in what was supposed to have been the height of the epidemic, hospital ERs are nearly empty and hospital staff are being furloughed. And hospitals and doctors complain that they're not seeing enough heart attacks and strokes. Madness!

    Get back to work, take off the mask (we're not Asians), wash your hands, be careful around aged and already-sick persons, but otherwise, let dignity be restored to the people!

    Well, we had to “flatten the curve,” or hospitals would be overwhelmed

    It’s strange: (1) how little this was questioned, and (2) how wrong even this “swamped hospitals” thing turned out to be. As many commenters and Steve himself notes here, hospitals have never been emptier.

    It turns out that creating a top-down Panic has unpredictable consequences. This stunning insight should be noted and studied.

    Was anyone, in mid-March or thereabouts, predicting “empty hospitals” (except certain Crazy Corona Hoaxers™)?

    The whole thing feels in one sense like a giant, evil social experiment.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Sweden has no good ski resorts, that is why it cannot achieve Herd Immunity. 'Flatten the curve or hospitals will be overwhelmed' was based on the dubious assumptions that the medical services of a modern nation state lack latent spare capacity, people would be using them for non COVID-19 related matters at the the same rate, and information provided by China was reliable. Still, there are hardly any fat people in South Korea, almost half of Americans are clinically obese so there are going to be a lot of deaths among US (and UK) whites in which metabolic syndrome will be a factor.

    That "at least 50% of the population of Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available" is dubious. Of course many are oblivious to nebulous and distant threats, but many are not, and a substantial part of the population watch the world news. It now seems clear that the advanced Nordic countries contain a large number of subtly altered their behavior to avoid infection. The same is true of the UK although to a lesser extent.

    Herd immunity (and hospital overwhelm) was never going to be that likely as a result of COVID-19 in a modern society in which people know about events on the other side of the world within hours (and resources can be reorganised for emergencies).

    The official Swedish government epidemiologist says the policy of Sweden is personal responsibility, and the government are definitely not trying to reach herd immunity. Given that Sweden has a low population density and relatively few multi person households, and in view of Swedes' high level of education and interest/engagement in international affairs and news (EG Greta) they really are badly placed for achieving herd immunity no matter what policy they adopted. Swedes are the last people to all go on acting as if nothing was happening during a global disaster until the government told them otherwise

  100. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    Nick Lowe Performs '(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding' From Home | In My Room
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tP5GsNIOqQ

    Nick Lowe played a handful of songs from his home in London for Rolling Stone‘s “In My Room,” an IGTV series in which musicians perform while in quarantine in wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Accompanied by his son, Roy, Lowe kicked off with the somber “Trombone,” a song he dropped last year off his EP, Starvation/Trombone. “I’ve been told time’s a healer,” he sings, strumming his acoustic guitar. “Still I can’t shake the love I lost.”

    Get the full story at: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nick-lowe-in-my-room-981816/
     

    Can’t find the link but the unplugged/live duet of Nick Lowe and Haven Monahan performing Nick’s ” I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass” at the AmRen convention is truly moving.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    For now we'll have to settle for Los Straitjackets' accompaniment:

    Nick Lowe – Full Concert, Live at First Avenue, 9/13/19 (The Current)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFIOlgwjdzc

    "Saint" Nick Lowe brought his Quality Rock and Roll Revue to First Avenue in Minneapolis on Friday, September 13, 2019. Backed by the mask-wearing surf rock band Los Straitjackets, Lowe delivered 90+ minutes of iconic classics from his catalog as a producer, solo artist and member of Rockpile. Watch the forefather of witty indie rock charm in First Avenue's hallowed Mainroom.
     

    Set List
    00:42 So It Goes
    03:55 Raging Eyes
    06:20 Without Love
    09:21 Nick Lowe introduction, dedication to Ian MacLagan
    11:08 You Inspire Me
    15:20 Shting-Shtang
    18:29 Raincoat in the River
    21:41 Somebody Cares for Me
    24:53 Tokyo Bay
    27:42 Kawanga!
    30:26 Calhoun Surf
    32:23 Venus
    35:30 My Heart Will Go On
    39:43 Run Chicken Run (Medley including Johnny B Goode, Misirlou, etc.)
    46:03 I Love the Sound of Breakng Glass
    47:42 Half a Boy and Half a Man
    50:56 Love Starvation
    54:20 Lay it On Me, Baby
    57:27 Blue on Blue
    01:01:05 Here Comes That Feeling
    01:04:06 Cruel to Be Kind
    01:08:29 Heart of the City
    01:13:50 I Knew the Bride (When She Used to Rock 'n' Roll)

    ENCORE
    01:21:15 Church Key
    01:23:40 When I Write The Book
    01:27:20 (What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding

    ENCORE
    01:33:56 Allison
     
  101. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    Well, you know, The Authorities always know best in all cases, and never flag in their diligence and insights. /s

    I had an emergency operation for a life-threatening case of peritonitis several years back, the origin of which was a botched operation for removal of kidney stones, one of which was too large to pass into the bladder, and of others detected in one of my kidneys. The surgeon employed laser lithotripsy to disintegrate the stones, but apparently during the procedure, they blasted through my abdominal wall, and punched a hole through my small intestine, thereby releasing intestinal fauna into what should have been a sterile cavity. Off to the races we went after a couple days at home, with me spiking a fever of about 104°, and at that point ill-suited to take charge of invoking emergency services. Fortunately, my wife (first instance) was there to take charge of getting me taken by the fire rescue crew to the hospital (fortunately, a different hospital). The first few days I was on morphine to control the pain, and hallucinating, so I rather doubt I could be much help in my own care. It was a good thing that my wife (second instance) was there to exercise vigilance on my behalf, and to glean information on my treatment and prognosis. The staff and doctors did a fine job, but it was a relief to me to know that she was there to oversee my care. Oddly enough, patient morale, part of healing, turns out to be important.

    So poot on your POV. Your attribution of God-like powers to the medicos is incorrect; to their family the patient is not just another “client”, but someone about whom they care, and for whom they will go to bat, whether that is through information gathering, or through active intervention in the care regimen if they are concerned that it is not being pursued with demonstrable energy. Sometimes the staff and professionals, even with the best of intentions, could use family input to further tune their care.

    Maybe you should just get a job at the Division of Motor Vehicles, and liberate yourself from having to even simulate the pretense of fellow-feeling with the families of patients, stupid and emotional inconveniences that they evidently are to you.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Thank you. Thanks a thousand times.
  102. @Jedi Night
    Wait, if the hospitals are not overwhelmed, why are we still on lockdown? Wasn't that the whole point? Cause the hospitals would all be overwhelmed and preventable deaths and all that?

    Somebody, please, sanity check: Why are we on lockdown?

    Somebody, please, sanity check: Why are we on lockdown?

    You are in the Twilight Zone.

    This episode’s length is being determined, ad hoc, by members of the Corona Committee for Public Safety. But then it turns out they are actually aliens, They Live-style.

    “Don’t touch that dial.”

  103. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    Nick Lowe Performs '(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding' From Home | In My Room
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tP5GsNIOqQ

    Nick Lowe played a handful of songs from his home in London for Rolling Stone‘s “In My Room,” an IGTV series in which musicians perform while in quarantine in wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Accompanied by his son, Roy, Lowe kicked off with the somber “Trombone,” a song he dropped last year off his EP, Starvation/Trombone. “I’ve been told time’s a healer,” he sings, strumming his acoustic guitar. “Still I can’t shake the love I lost.”

    Get the full story at: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nick-lowe-in-my-room-981816/
     

    He’s being cruel to be kind.

  104. @Hippopotamusdrome

    3,778 stiffs X $13,000 per kungflu stiff = $49 million

    It pays to retroactively deem ALL deaths as covums.

    Fake data, brought to you by Uncle Samantha.

    And you were excited about your $1,200 coronabonus 😂

  105. @Anon
    Here’s an actual PSA from LA:
    Masks Not Required on Los Angeles Trains, Buses & Subways
    LOS ANGELES COUNTY METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY

    UPDATING: Metro COVID-19 news and service information, April 17

    L.A. County has mandated face coverings for everyone when in public engaging in essential activities. While face coverings are not required to ride Metro, we recommend all transit riders wear face coverings and/or masks on our buses and trains as well.

    https://thesource.metro.net/2020/03/03/metro-coordinating-with-l-a-county-department-of-public-health-in-response-to-recent-reports-of-covid-19/
     

    🤦‍♂️

    When Miami-Dade County made mask-wearing mandatory on April 9, the emergency order explicitly mentioned public transportation:

    Persons working in or visiting grocery stores, restaurants, pharmacies, construction sites, public transit vehicles, vehicles for hire, and locations where social distancing measures are not possible shall wear facial coverings as defined by the CDC.

    MDT suspended all fares on March 22. Tri-Rail followed suit a few days later.

    In unincorporated Miami-Dade County, fast-food restaurants are still allowing customers to come inside to order. But in the city of Miami, those on foot have to use the drive-through. It’s weird to see people standing in line behind cars.

    Supermarkets are tightly controlling access, with long lines stretching out into the parking lot. But discount department stores with grocery departments (such as Target and Wal-Mart) are still allowing normal ingress/egress.

  106. @Mr. Anon

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.
     
    That may be true for middling intellects. But if you are not of middling intellect, and you want your relative or loved-one to get better and live, it's better to be in the Hospital, advocating the case of the person you are there for. Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can't necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It's better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

    Patients are often out of it, because they are injured, ill, or in pain, and can’t necessarily give accurate or even coherent answers to the medical personnel. It’s better if a relative or loved one is there to carefully explain the medical complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

    Exactly. Doctors and nurses often work 24-hour shifts so are exhausted at times, doctors often have illegible hand-writing, nurses are sometimes fairly low-IQ in addition to being exhausted. Johns Hopkins University published a study a few years ago claiming medical errors were the 3rd leading cause of death.

    https://hub.jhu.edu/2016/05/03/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death/

    Since its publication the Makary study has come under scrutiny and the real number is likely much lower:

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-medical-errors-really-the-third-most-common-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/

    The actual number isn’t the point, the point is that the number is non-zero and in many cases the errors are basic things that someone merely paying attention would catch. A good friend of the Badwhites spent most of a month in reputable Florida hospital acting as an advocate for her father who was recovering from a stroke. There were at least 4 occasions where she caught an error (medication different from what was prescribed; correction medication but wrong dose, etc). Its unlikely any of these mistakes would have been fatal, but they were mistakes. Doctors and nurses are humans and thus can make mistakes.

  107. @Hail

    Well, we had to “flatten the curve,” or hospitals would be overwhelmed
     
    It's strange: (1) how little this was questioned, and (2) how wrong even this "swamped hospitals" thing turned out to be. As many commenters and Steve himself notes here, hospitals have never been emptier.

    It turns out that creating a top-down Panic has unpredictable consequences. This stunning insight should be noted and studied.

    Was anyone, in mid-March or thereabouts, predicting "empty hospitals" (except certain Crazy Corona Hoaxers™)?

    The whole thing feels in one sense like a giant, evil social experiment.

    Sweden has no good ski resorts, that is why it cannot achieve Herd Immunity. ‘Flatten the curve or hospitals will be overwhelmed’ was based on the dubious assumptions that the medical services of a modern nation state lack latent spare capacity, people would be using them for non COVID-19 related matters at the the same rate, and information provided by China was reliable. Still, there are hardly any fat people in South Korea, almost half of Americans are clinically obese so there are going to be a lot of deaths among US (and UK) whites in which metabolic syndrome will be a factor.

    That “at least 50% of the population of Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available” is dubious. Of course many are oblivious to nebulous and distant threats, but many are not, and a substantial part of the population watch the world news. It now seems clear that the advanced Nordic countries contain a large number of subtly altered their behavior to avoid infection. The same is true of the UK although to a lesser extent.

    Herd immunity (and hospital overwhelm) was never going to be that likely as a result of COVID-19 in a modern society in which people know about events on the other side of the world within hours (and resources can be reorganised for emergencies).

    The official Swedish government epidemiologist says the policy of Sweden is personal responsibility, and the government are definitely not trying to reach herd immunity. Given that Sweden has a low population density and relatively few multi person households, and in view of Swedes’ high level of education and interest/engagement in international affairs and news (EG Greta) they really are badly placed for achieving herd immunity no matter what policy they adopted. Swedes are the last people to all go on acting as if nothing was happening during a global disaster until the government told them otherwise

  108. If you or anyone you know is going to a hospital these days, bring cell phone and charger. A friend’s father, aged 89, died in isolation, without wife of 60+ years by his side. Could not even reach her by phone. It was needless cruelty, but just part of Lockdown America. Two cheers for Sweden. . . .?

  109. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    “I’m a nurse, goddamit! And I’ve worked too long and too hard to let you do this to me!”

    Yeah, all nurses want family out so they can neglect patients.

  110. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:

    That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    Has immigration—and its consequence, “diversity”—increased the need for White people who are admittees in hospitals or nursing homes to have an outside relative to advocate for them?

    Has anti-White hate propaganda in the media and in academia also made this necessary?

    • Replies: @epebble
    I would blame it on utilization review (cost containment) rather than diversity. Many hospitals are afraid of being uncompensated/undercompensated.
  111. @Lot
    “ Marie Provosts found who “…became the doggie’s dinner…”“

    Maury Povich’s house often has doggie dinners.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/world/asia/dog-eaters-in-yulin-china-unbowed-by-global-derision.html

    Maury Povich’s house often has doggie dinners.

    Wonder what his dad Shirley thought of that.

  112. I am feeling fairly invincible since I had a stroke at 40 and a triple bypass at 62. I had quit smoking 5 years before the stroke so of course about a year after said stroke I started smoking again. Quit when I had the bypass. Still miss smoking but Mama didn’t raise no fool so I doubt I’ll ever pick it up again. Unless I come down with something terminal and then I’ll start again. Want to enjoy my remaining time. Might even have a drink or two as well.

    My only concern about dying during this global medical event is some bean counter will use my death to inflate stats on Wuhan Flu fatalities.

  113. @leterip
    Bit off subject. Here is a link to a very respectful, non-hysterical conversation between a Brit who hosts podcasts (pro lockdown) and a very senior Swedish epidemiologist. He explains the reasoning behind swedens very mild social distancing policies, he gives a predictions on Sweden’s eventual covid deaths, and he describes the problems with other countries approach. All in a matter of fact way. It is 35 minutes long and really worth the time.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden

    -UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
    -The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
    -This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
    -The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
    -The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
    -The paper was very much too pessimistic
    -Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
    -The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
    -The results will eventually be similar for all countries
    -Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
    -The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
    -“Certain” that at least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden have already had the disease

    Thanks. That’s a good video (both interviewer and Swedish expert being interviewed). I recommend going to YouTube where you can access a transcript and see comments.

  114. 140 hospitals furloughing workers in response to COVID-19

    up to date April 17

    https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.html

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Not surprising, since all non urgent stuff is canceled.

    My wife is a health care worker. Some workers are being redeployed to the Front. The rest have their hours cut. For my wife’s employer, they give people 1 or 2 paid days off each week. But, they can also let people home early. That is either vacation time or unpaid time.

    I can imagine that more financially strapped clinics and hospitals away from the Front will be laying people off.
  115. @Known Fact
    I've always loved those big hospital billboards on the interstate in South Florida with a digital display showing "Emergency room waiting time is currently XX minutes"

    Me too. Hey, the wait time is down to 15 minutes! Let’s go!

  116. @njguy73
    I'll see your Lister and Pasteur and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

    …and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

    He got the highest honor our modern world has to bestow– a Google doodle.

    I’m pretty sure 2020’s wasn’t the first of these, but can’t seem to find an earlier one.

  117. @jsm
    Screw you.

    I, too, have worked in the hospital for plenty of years. I've seen the mistakes. Made a few myself, AND SO HAVE YOU... and in some cases the family member pointed it out in time to save my patient the bad effects of a mis-administration and myself a black mark on my employment record.

    Not to mention the little children, already sick and miserable and terrified enough, being subjected to even more fear and trauma because Mommy's not allowed to come in with him into that scary room filled with strangers in scary masks.

    I'm perfectly happy to spend 30 seconds directing a family member to the cafeteria. And explaining things to the spouse who loves that man IS OUR JOB.

    Screw you and your efficiency.

    All these medical “professionals” want is to be left alone in peace. So they can kill patients with greater efficiency. Is that asking so much? Let’s get you ventilated now.

  118. @Jack D

    take off the mask (we’re not Asians)
     
    Yes, better to die than look Asian.

    Wtf? Right above you pointed out that it’s not at all deadly for nearly everyone. “Deaths from CV are rare.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
    So are auto accidents but I still wear my seat belt. This whole fiasco started (in part) because they lied to people and told them not to wear masks because they knew that we didn't have any domestic mask production capability anymore and wanted to conserve the remaining stock of masks for medical personnel. We've known for decades that a pandemic was possible (there have been a million Hollywood movies about it for one thing) and they couldn't even stockpile masks and gloves. The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.
  119. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    ROTFLOLATSM…highly efficient medical system. Do let me, or more likely, my great great great great great grandchild know when that happy day rolls around. Hell, get the annual deaths from medical misadventure below those from diabetes and I’ll throw y’all a parade.

    Having over the last decade seen rather more of the inside of our local hospital than one would wish upon his most dire enemy, I suspect that the proportion of counterproductive family members is probably about the same as that of incompetent and/or indifferent hospital staff, so let’s call that a wash.

    Last year, after my wife was transferred from the MICU to a step-down floor I made the serious error of leaving my wife’s side for a little less than an hour to go home and feed the dogs. When I stepped off the elevator on my return trip, I could hear a myriad of alarms emanating from rooms up and down the corridor, including my wife’s, as she was in distress, with oxygen sats spiraling downward.

    So, off I went to find a live body…hey, luckily not so hard to find with all the singing…we’re all over on a parallel corridor, eating cake and celebrating somebody’s special occasion. I am not more often than once a decade or so sorely tempted to smack a woman, and resisted the urge yet again, but did home in on an RN and using my best COMMAND VOICE hasten her to my wife’s bedside.

    Seems that despite my repeated warnings, including placing a written one in bold six inch high letters on the highly visible white board in her room, stating her extreme allergy to a certain med, in my brief absence someone administered said med, with all too predictable results. When I discovered this, I must admit to momentarily losing my cool, tearing off my day pack and violently throwing it onto the floor. Oh, the Humanity! This apparently got the hospital po-lice sicced on me. Before they could defenestrate me and allow the staff to go ahead and kill my wife through neglect and numbskullery I was fortunately able to contact the patient advocate,who was able to defuse the situation with the cops and bring in a competent nurse, ending the crisis.

    Look, my professional life was spent among a wide slice of the IQ bell curve, albeit one with a strangely disproportionate right tail, so I don’t doubt get that good help is damned hard to come by. Many of us have had to deal with the left halves of the intelligence and diligence curves, and can understand the frustration of repeatedly answering what seems to us stupid questions, and get that you have to maintain some professional detachment (the patient and family’s existential crisis being merely a small slice of your long work day, not much different from the one before and the ones to follow), but one should still strive to be closer to the empathetic than to indifferent, no?

    I could not agree more with Mr. Anon’s comment, and since that day have never left my wife alone in any sort of medical setting for more than a very few minutes. The number of nurses and physicians who have urged me to do so would, I hope, concern you. I just accept it as the way things are these days.

    That said, I hereby sing hosannas in praise of the majority of decent and competent hospital personnel who have shepherded us through her illnesses. If 50% of the ventilated do not survive, and we’ve gotten a favorable coin flip three times in a row, it’s probably the staff and not pure luck.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    My wife is a low level health care worker, but she always knows all the doctors and always finds out the doctors. I mean ALL the doctors. I remember a gathering once where she and the chief of surgery at a local hospital spent the whole gathering gossiping about various doctors and staff.

    What does that mean?

    It means she and her family always get the best possible treatment. The difference in treatment can be enormous.

    There was a time when she wasn’t working, and we lived in an area where she didn’t know the doctors etc. That was a nightmare. It actually took us a week to get my son’s broken leg treated. I wish I was making that up.

    So the quality of care one gets depends a lot on who is advocating for the patient, but also on who the patient or the advocate knows.
  120. @Achmed E. Newman
    Thank you, Kim! That is a big pet peeve of mine, but it's too prevalent for me to make any corrections most times. That's except for the most egregious times: "There has been a recall, and a anyone who uses this brand douche should immediately return it for their money back." "The man suspected in the shooting was detained after returning to the scene to recover their gun."

    The feminists cowed Americans into the "their" thing years ago for use as the pronoun in cases of unknown sex. Now, a writer will use it even if he KNOWS the sex. It's getting pretty stupid.

    At elementary school, the kids are taught, via example, to use "people" when talking about "boys" or "girls".

    We have manuals at work that are very much safety related. They are written with the use of "their" for the singular, and it's confusing as hell sometimes, even when you know what the writers are up to. "Wait a minute - both of us are supposed to do this, or just the one?"

    Such people might be happier living among those whose languages don’t [en]gender their pronouns. Tongues such as Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish, and Yoruba.

    English is the rare Indo-European language which lacks gender for nouns. You’d think they’d be happy with that. But, no, they want us to learn Spanish.

    (Personally, I like how Russian genders the verbs as well as the nouns: Уродливый человек ушел / Уродливая женщина ушла / Уродливое такси
    оставили )

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages

    From the sanest person in that insane documentary:

    Tiger King’s Saff Didn’t Care About Being Misgendered

    A lot of these “modern” errors were common four hundred years ago, too. What happened in the meantime is that various wordsmiths cracked down, some well (Johnson, Fowler), some not so well (Lowth), some controversially (Webster).

  121. @Jmaie

    How can the EMT administer, say, mouth to mouth resuscitation to a presumed Covid positive
     
    EMT's haven't done direct mouth to mouth for a long time.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=cpr+mask&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS884US884&sxsrf=ALeKk00rT-kXs-1tGsZh9iv0k6buM1byjw:1587225505196&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=VgNX7NgenCBE0M%253A%252CVLn1Ean2d9p-hM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTXKnFA609NaH_dmVCNlljLP2rCBw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKoqnjq_LoAhXjoFsKHWzYCYAQ9QEwDnoECAoQTA#imgrc=GtbP-U1d8jZrRM

    Thank you, I will get one of these. Now they should learn to use AED in a presumed Covid manner.

  122. @Known Fact
    Heard today from a friend whose mom fell in assisted living, had to be taken to a CT hospital and now apparently has the virus. It might not be clear if she caught it at the hospital or beforehand at the home, which could really set off some alarm bells

    Multiply the problem by thousands, and we have quite a veritable hell of a dilemma. I don’t know what to do if I have a non-life threatening emergency, say, a minor fracture, that is not fixable by telemedicine. I know that most hospitals are universally PPE deficient, hence don’t wan’t to play the Russian roulette of picking up the virus while getting a fracture fixed.

  123. @Anonymous

    That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Has immigration—and its consequence, “diversity”—increased the need for White people who are admittees in hospitals or nursing homes to have an outside relative to advocate for them?

    Has anti-White hate propaganda in the media and in academia also made this necessary?

    I would blame it on utilization review (cost containment) rather than diversity. Many hospitals are afraid of being uncompensated/undercompensated.

  124. My wife is a nurse who works primarily with stroke victims, although her floor has been converted to a COVID unit. One of her co-workers is convinced there are piles of bodies, metaphorically speaking, at the bottom of stairwells/bedsides etc due to social distancing.

    Considering the importance of time in treating strokes, I have no doubt there are more people either dead or permanently injured because of current circumstances than there otherwise would have been.

  125. @njguy73
    I'll see your Lister and Pasteur and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?


    [MORE]

  126. @Jack Armstrong
    Can’t find the link but the unplugged/live duet of Nick Lowe and Haven Monahan performing Nick’s " I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass" at the AmRen convention is truly moving.

    For now we’ll have to settle for Los Straitjackets’ accompaniment:

    Nick Lowe – Full Concert, Live at First Avenue, 9/13/19 (The Current)

    “Saint” Nick Lowe brought his Quality Rock and Roll Revue to First Avenue in Minneapolis on Friday, September 13, 2019. Backed by the mask-wearing surf rock band Los Straitjackets, Lowe delivered 90+ minutes of iconic classics from his catalog as a producer, solo artist and member of Rockpile. Watch the forefather of witty indie rock charm in First Avenue’s hallowed Mainroom.

    [MORE]

    Set List
    00:42 So It Goes
    03:55 Raging Eyes
    06:20 Without Love
    09:21 Nick Lowe introduction, dedication to Ian MacLagan
    11:08 You Inspire Me
    15:20 Shting-Shtang
    18:29 Raincoat in the River
    21:41 Somebody Cares for Me
    24:53 Tokyo Bay
    27:42 Kawanga!
    30:26 Calhoun Surf
    32:23 Venus
    35:30 My Heart Will Go On
    39:43 Run Chicken Run (Medley including Johnny B Goode, Misirlou, etc.)
    46:03 I Love the Sound of Breakng Glass
    47:42 Half a Boy and Half a Man
    50:56 Love Starvation
    54:20 Lay it On Me, Baby
    57:27 Blue on Blue
    01:01:05 Here Comes That Feeling
    01:04:06 Cruel to Be Kind
    01:08:29 Heart of the City
    01:13:50 I Knew the Bride (When She Used to Rock ‘n’ Roll)

    ENCORE
    01:21:15 Church Key
    01:23:40 When I Write The Book
    01:27:20 (What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding

    ENCORE
    01:33:56 Allison

    • Thanks: duncsbaby
    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Good set. I might have been tempted to replace a couple of also-rans with "Switchboard Susan" or "Cracking Up" or "Wish You Were Here".

    Or maybe "Stick it...."

    He has a heck of a catalog.

  127. @Kyle
    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.

    Yeah, but what’s our MO?

  128. @Mr McKenna

    How could family advocacy help?
     
    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you're an inpatient. They'll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse--often far worse. It doesn't matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.

    I have indeed has experience w/aged relatives & hospitals and it’s my impression that they do what they do, regardless.

    And sometimes an over-zealous advocate can have the opposite effect of what’s intended.

  129. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    Your kindness and compassion are just so overwhelming.

  130. @Stogumber
    "my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you"

    Just now I was phoned by an acquaintance. She had cared for her disabled brother over more than a decade (he was mentally disabled by epileptical attacks and couldn't advocate for himself). Then he had to go to a hospital, and shortly after she was forbidden to visit him (Corona). When she was away, they stopped feeding him - and when she could visit him again, he already was extremely emaciated, unable to swallow and died shortly after. She made extreme efforts to get a doctor speaking to her and he simply told her that her brother with his particular health condition had reached the average age for such people and anyway had no quality of life, also he had told them that "he didn't want to eat".
    I now understand better why people don't want to go into a hospital.

    Anecdotal evidence from UK (promised I wouldn’t be more specific) of a doctor telling elderly patients on a Covid-19 ward “we’re not going to resuscitate you anyway, so why not sign this form to say you don’t want to be resuscitated?“.

    You definitely need a younger family member fighting your corner.

  131. @njguy73
    I'll see your Lister and Pasteur and raise you Ignaz Semmelweis.

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

    LOL That crazy conspiracy theorist Ignaz Semmelweis? Didn’t Snopes debunk him?

    Semmelweis’s hypothesis…was largely ignored, rejected, or ridiculed. He was dismissed from the hospital for political reasons and harassed by the medical community in Vienna, being eventually forced to move to Budapest.

    His contemporaries, including his wife, believed he was losing his mind, and in 1865, nearly twenty years after his breakthrough, he was committed to the Landesirrenanstalt Döbling (provincial lunatic asylum). He died there of septic shock only 14 days later, possibly as the result of being severely beaten by guards.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The odd thing is that the other doctor to promote Semmelweis's handwashing hypothesis was one of the most popular men in America: Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr., a fashionable Massachusetts doctor and beloved humor writer. But nobody much paid attention to him either.
  132. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Hippo, check the zoo staff to see if any Chinese workers are missing. And in all seriousness, no one here can get tested for the virus, but a tiger can.

    • Replies: @epebble
    How and why they tested the Tiger. They didn't use a human test https://www.wired.com/story/tiger-coronavirus-bronx-zoo/
  133. @Anonymous
    I work in a hospital and I assure you in most cases its the other way round- most patient family members are focused on completely irrelevant crap like the food they're eating or some minor headache. Which in an acute illness setting is absolutely irrelevant.

    A highly efficient medical system would ban all family members from visiting, so that doctors and nurses can focus on the task of treating the ill, instead of assuaging sundry egos and explaining the simplest things over and over to middling intellects.

    111, “explaining the simplest things over and over” because no one can understand your accented, broken English!

  134. @stillCARealist
    the wait for a routine mammogram takes you to June 5 in my town. They're only taking people who have breast cancer or if the doctor says, "RIGHT NOW."

    Result? The imaging centers are empty. Why is this necessary? Those places are not hospitals.

    Also, dentists. They're the cleanest places in town, yet they're shut down for everything except emergencies. I should tell them that the coffee stains on my teeth are a serious emotional emergency for me.

    stillCA, I posted this a few days ago, but I had to see my doctor about a possible blood clot in my calf. I was told to call in when I reached the office. No one else there. Doc, in full garb checked and sent me for a sonogram. No one else there. Actually a good time to be sick or injured with a non life threatening illness or injury.

  135. @JerseyJeffersonian
    Well, you know, The Authorities always know best in all cases, and never flag in their diligence and insights. /s

    I had an emergency operation for a life-threatening case of peritonitis several years back, the origin of which was a botched operation for removal of kidney stones, one of which was too large to pass into the bladder, and of others detected in one of my kidneys. The surgeon employed laser lithotripsy to disintegrate the stones, but apparently during the procedure, they blasted through my abdominal wall, and punched a hole through my small intestine, thereby releasing intestinal fauna into what should have been a sterile cavity. Off to the races we went after a couple days at home, with me spiking a fever of about 104°, and at that point ill-suited to take charge of invoking emergency services. Fortunately, my wife (first instance) was there to take charge of getting me taken by the fire rescue crew to the hospital (fortunately, a different hospital). The first few days I was on morphine to control the pain, and hallucinating, so I rather doubt I could be much help in my own care. It was a good thing that my wife (second instance) was there to exercise vigilance on my behalf, and to glean information on my treatment and prognosis. The staff and doctors did a fine job, but it was a relief to me to know that she was there to oversee my care. Oddly enough, patient morale, part of healing, turns out to be important.

    So poot on your POV. Your attribution of God-like powers to the medicos is incorrect; to their family the patient is not just another "client", but someone about whom they care, and for whom they will go to bat, whether that is through information gathering, or through active intervention in the care regimen if they are concerned that it is not being pursued with demonstrable energy. Sometimes the staff and professionals, even with the best of intentions, could use family input to further tune their care.

    Maybe you should just get a job at the Division of Motor Vehicles, and liberate yourself from having to even simulate the pretense of fellow-feeling with the families of patients, stupid and emotional inconveniences that they evidently are to you.

    Thank you. Thanks a thousand times.

  136. @MEH 0910
    For now we'll have to settle for Los Straitjackets' accompaniment:

    Nick Lowe – Full Concert, Live at First Avenue, 9/13/19 (The Current)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFIOlgwjdzc

    "Saint" Nick Lowe brought his Quality Rock and Roll Revue to First Avenue in Minneapolis on Friday, September 13, 2019. Backed by the mask-wearing surf rock band Los Straitjackets, Lowe delivered 90+ minutes of iconic classics from his catalog as a producer, solo artist and member of Rockpile. Watch the forefather of witty indie rock charm in First Avenue's hallowed Mainroom.
     

    Set List
    00:42 So It Goes
    03:55 Raging Eyes
    06:20 Without Love
    09:21 Nick Lowe introduction, dedication to Ian MacLagan
    11:08 You Inspire Me
    15:20 Shting-Shtang
    18:29 Raincoat in the River
    21:41 Somebody Cares for Me
    24:53 Tokyo Bay
    27:42 Kawanga!
    30:26 Calhoun Surf
    32:23 Venus
    35:30 My Heart Will Go On
    39:43 Run Chicken Run (Medley including Johnny B Goode, Misirlou, etc.)
    46:03 I Love the Sound of Breakng Glass
    47:42 Half a Boy and Half a Man
    50:56 Love Starvation
    54:20 Lay it On Me, Baby
    57:27 Blue on Blue
    01:01:05 Here Comes That Feeling
    01:04:06 Cruel to Be Kind
    01:08:29 Heart of the City
    01:13:50 I Knew the Bride (When She Used to Rock 'n' Roll)

    ENCORE
    01:21:15 Church Key
    01:23:40 When I Write The Book
    01:27:20 (What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding

    ENCORE
    01:33:56 Allison
     

    Good set. I might have been tempted to replace a couple of also-rans with “Switchboard Susan” or “Cracking Up” or “Wish You Were Here”.

    Or maybe “Stick it….”

    He has a heck of a catalog.

  137. @Buffalo Joe
    Hippo, check the zoo staff to see if any Chinese workers are missing. And in all seriousness, no one here can get tested for the virus, but a tiger can.

    How and why they tested the Tiger. They didn’t use a human test https://www.wired.com/story/tiger-coronavirus-bronx-zoo/

  138. @Achmed E. Newman
    It should be "but my suspicion", Steve. As king of typos, I tend to catch these things.

    It's been pretty sad to hear from a nurse family member how the friends and family can not visit the hospital. Some of the patients would have died with or without, but, man, it can be a bad deal having no loved ones around. Was this all a big mistake too?

    As for the PSA's, who's this "they" anyway? Maybe "they" should not have been making up some TV reports showing the hospitals overflowing in the first place.

    That last paragraph is gold. It’s shameful that they tried to bullshit everybody into believing that hospitals were overflowing with COVID-19 patients, when none of that was true. I wonder how long they were planning on keeping the charade going. I noticed that it was only after people started putting videos of the empty hospitals on Youtube that the media started reporting the truth. I don’t know how anyone can deride conspiracy theorists when the press and the authorities are so dishonest.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/brooklyn-hospital-coronavirus-patients-deaths/index.html

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/us/detroit-hospital-workers-sinai-grace-coronavirus/index.html

    • Agree: Hail, Testing12
    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  139. GermanReader2 [AKA "GermanReader2_new"] says:
    @Mr. Anon
    Spain to spray disinfectants over cities:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/spain-authorizes-military-planes-spray-disinfectants-over-cities

    It's almost as if the governments of the World were doing everything in their power to vindicate Alex Jones.

    Now we'll even have chem-trails.

    Didn’t Alex Jones say in January, that the virus came from a lab? He was way ahead of the time.

  140. @Stogumber
    "my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you"

    Just now I was phoned by an acquaintance. She had cared for her disabled brother over more than a decade (he was mentally disabled by epileptical attacks and couldn't advocate for himself). Then he had to go to a hospital, and shortly after she was forbidden to visit him (Corona). When she was away, they stopped feeding him - and when she could visit him again, he already was extremely emaciated, unable to swallow and died shortly after. She made extreme efforts to get a doctor speaking to her and he simply told her that her brother with his particular health condition had reached the average age for such people and anyway had no quality of life, also he had told them that "he didn't want to eat".
    I now understand better why people don't want to go into a hospital.

    I hope he wasn’t a registered organ donor.

  141. GermanReader2 [AKA "GermanReader2_new"] says:
    @leterip
    Bit off subject. Here is a link to a very respectful, non-hysterical conversation between a Brit who hosts podcasts (pro lockdown) and a very senior Swedish epidemiologist. He explains the reasoning behind swedens very mild social distancing policies, he gives a predictions on Sweden’s eventual covid deaths, and he describes the problems with other countries approach. All in a matter of fact way. It is 35 minutes long and really worth the time.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden

    -UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
    -The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
    -This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
    -The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
    -The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
    -The paper was very much too pessimistic
    -Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
    -The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
    -The results will eventually be similar for all countries
    -Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
    -The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
    -“Certain” that at least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden have already had the disease

    I do not think, that half of the population of the UK and Sweden has already had the disease. Even in the most (and earliest) affected town of Germany not more than 15 percent have tested positive for antibodies (and some virologists have said, that the tests have picked up antibodies for other coronaviruses)

  142. @Thea
    Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter.

    Sure, mistakes get made and it is imperfect. On the balance, the overwhelming majority of people with access to medical professionals live longer and more comfortably than their ancestors without it.

    “Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter.”

    Breathtaking ignorance. Infant mortality has declined steeply in the last 130 years. Throw out the dead babies, and our ancestors always averaged about 70- to 80-year lifespans.

    • Disagree: Thea
    • Replies: @Thea
    So decreases in infant mortality had nothing to do with modern medicine? What a genius you are!

    Shall we pretend maternal mortality has stayed the same?

    , @Thea
    Infant mortality improvement was accomplished through.... magic? Or modern medicine? How about maternal mortality? It was the leading cause of women’s death until modern medicine.

    Having a living mother makes our lives worse?

    Your 70 year old ancestor walked around with a painful tooth abscess or a limp , blind or disfigured. This was more comfortable?

  143. They wouldn’t need PSAs if it weren’t for gullible dupes fanning the flames of Corona-hysteria, fed by easily falsified media reports of “hospitals overflowing” and “bodies piling up”. It is ironic that Candace Owens saw through this Gates-funded anti-Trump media hype job and our esteemed HBD high-IQ thought leaders fell for it hook-line-and-sinker. Coverage of Tucker Carlson’s opinions on the matter in this space have vanished as well – wonder why? Similar to the Iraq war, someone’s response to the coronavirus pandemic should be a litmus test on their objective independent thinking qualifications for decades to come.

    As a country we would apparently enthusiastically send 100s of thousands of young men to their deaths to stop overseas dictators, but hand the legal keys to our own freedom over to homegrown tyrants like the botox Gretchen witch and “report your neighbor” De Blasio in order to prevent a few thousand old people from possibly succumbing to China flu.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    It's like the unofficial retirement party for Boomer conservative intellectuals. Reminds me of when I stopped listening to talk radio.
  144. @Anon
    I’ve had a major heart attack and a couple of strokes in the last few years (in my 40’s). The stroke was particularly scary because you can feel it coming on. You feel it first in the head. Then— in my case— the whole right side of my body went numb. The first thought when it’s coming on is, “Oh shit, this is not good.” The second thought is about loved ones, death, and the afterlife.

    In the initial weeks of the quarantine I was having major chest pains or would feel the signs of a stroke coming on. My self-employment (LLC) was totally wiped out and not coming back. I was really stressed out. If not for the quarantine I would’ve called 911. Instead I fought it, mentally, physically, and with baby aspirin.

    But then I saw the lines at grocery stores, deserted streets, people wearing masks and a weird peace came over me. Like we’re all in this together. My stress evaporated like my 401k in March and was replaced with a sense of optimism. For the first time in a long time. I have to start over totally but knowing we’re all in this together has energized me.

    I haven’t had a recurrence of chest pains or feelings of an incipient stroke.

    “I have to start over totally but knowing we’re all in this together has energized me.”

    Preach it, brother. Join us, the tens of millions of Americans not participating in coronahoax. We are Stronger Together, and together we will triumph over tyranny, ignorance, lies, and smug virtue-signalling.

    #CoronaHoax

    • Replies: @Hail

    triumph over tyranny, ignorance, lies, and smug virtue-signalling.
     
    Will the Corona Revolution "devour its own children"?

    (Double meaning; the answer to both may be 'Yes.')
  145. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Why is that name not up there with the great benefactors of humanity?

     

    LOL That crazy conspiracy theorist Ignaz Semmelweis? Didn't Snopes debunk him?


    Semmelweis's hypothesis...was largely ignored, rejected, or ridiculed. He was dismissed from the hospital for political reasons and harassed by the medical community in Vienna, being eventually forced to move to Budapest.
    ...
    His contemporaries, including his wife, believed he was losing his mind, and in 1865, nearly twenty years after his breakthrough, he was committed to the Landesirrenanstalt Döbling (provincial lunatic asylum). He died there of septic shock only 14 days later, possibly as the result of being severely beaten by guards.

     

    The odd thing is that the other doctor to promote Semmelweis’s handwashing hypothesis was one of the most popular men in America: Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr., a fashionable Massachusetts doctor and beloved humor writer. But nobody much paid attention to him either.

  146. @Mr McKenna

    How could family advocacy help?
     
    Lucky you, not to have experience with hospitals! Advocacy makes all the difference if you're an inpatient. They'll pretty much ignore you otherwise, and worse--often far worse. It doesn't matter if the disease at hand is brand-new or as old as the hills. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you might as well pack it in.

    True. My father was intubated years ago. My family took turns sitting with him there. I would hold his hand and read. I noticed one night that he stopped squeezing my hand with his right hand, though he would with his left. I immediately told the nurse and then the doctor on the floor that I suspected that he had suffered a stroke. They couldn’t have cared less. I think they thought he’d die soon.
    Well, he came off the vent a few days later and lived another 7 years, paralyzed on his right side and unable to talk or read.
    That was in a premier teaching hospital in a region known for its health care infrastructure.
    Please God, you’ll not catch me in a hospital on my last day.

    • Agree: Meretricious
  147. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/steve_sailer/status/795808604041269248

    Bob Dylan – I Contain Multitudes (Official Audio)

  148. @Meretricious
    Wtf? Right above you pointed out that it's not at all deadly for nearly everyone. "Deaths from CV are rare."

    So are auto accidents but I still wear my seat belt. This whole fiasco started (in part) because they lied to people and told them not to wear masks because they knew that we didn’t have any domestic mask production capability anymore and wanted to conserve the remaining stock of masks for medical personnel. We’ve known for decades that a pandemic was possible (there have been a million Hollywood movies about it for one thing) and they couldn’t even stockpile masks and gloves. The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.

    • Agree: Mr. Anon
    • Disagree: botazefa
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.
     
    Not to mention gun control and global warming. Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC's mission to its 30% black workforce, which specializes in generating hot air.
  149. “you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you”

    Steve, I am sure you are right. The closest I ever came to getting killed was when a well-known hospital almost let my IV run dry. It was very late, but fortunately I was still up watching Saving Private Ryan and called for help in time. #SpielbergSavedMyLife

  150. @Thatgirl
    As my husband likes to ask childless people "what are you going to do if you need a kidney?"

    “ As my husband likes to ask childless people “what are you going to do if you need a kidney?”

    What the hell kind of parent would take a kidney from their child?

    • Agree: Testing12
    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    Before a healthy young person considers donating a kidney, remember that as you grow older your kidneys may not be functional at 100%. You may need two kidneys to be a healthy individual in your older years.

    And then who knows if you will qualify for a kidney transplant then.
  151. @Jack D
    So are auto accidents but I still wear my seat belt. This whole fiasco started (in part) because they lied to people and told them not to wear masks because they knew that we didn't have any domestic mask production capability anymore and wanted to conserve the remaining stock of masks for medical personnel. We've known for decades that a pandemic was possible (there have been a million Hollywood movies about it for one thing) and they couldn't even stockpile masks and gloves. The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.

    The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.

    Not to mention gun control and global warming. Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC’s mission to its 30% black workforce, which specializes in generating hot air.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    The CDC was also involved in motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence, obviously to the detriment of its supposed mission of countering infectious diseases.
  152. @Testing12
    They wouldn't need PSAs if it weren't for gullible dupes fanning the flames of Corona-hysteria, fed by easily falsified media reports of "hospitals overflowing" and "bodies piling up". It is ironic that Candace Owens saw through this Gates-funded anti-Trump media hype job and our esteemed HBD high-IQ thought leaders fell for it hook-line-and-sinker. Coverage of Tucker Carlson's opinions on the matter in this space have vanished as well - wonder why? Similar to the Iraq war, someone's response to the coronavirus pandemic should be a litmus test on their objective independent thinking qualifications for decades to come.

    As a country we would apparently enthusiastically send 100s of thousands of young men to their deaths to stop overseas dictators, but hand the legal keys to our own freedom over to homegrown tyrants like the botox Gretchen witch and "report your neighbor" De Blasio in order to prevent a few thousand old people from possibly succumbing to China flu.

    It’s like the unofficial retirement party for Boomer conservative intellectuals. Reminds me of when I stopped listening to talk radio.

    • Replies: @Hail
    I'd say it's not at all as simple as that.

    Two exmaples: Both Hunter Wallace (b.1980, I think) and Richard Spencer (b.1978), who needless to say are far from being "Boomer Conservative Intellectuals," are believers in, and pushers of, the Corona Panic, and actively anti-CoronaSkeptic. They believe, it appears, that it is a Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, that the media is right this time, and the skeptics are dangerous.

    Hunter Wallace on CoronaSkeptics:


    [Their] minds are hobbled by ignorance, greed and paranoid conspiracy theories and [they] have made a virtue out of selfishness and a fetish out of abstract individual liberty and taken it to an unreasonable and shockingly immoral extreme in a national emergency
     
    Meanwhile, Ramzpaul (b.1963), who by life station is a lot closer to being a 'Boomer' than the two aforementioned, is very consistently and strongly against the Corona Panic. He is a standardbearer CoronaSkeptic. (Btw, Ramzpaul was the median-age contestant in the Boomer Cup 2019, which the great Steve Sailer won.)

    Something about this has divided people along new lines. See here for some thoughts on "the Corona political dividing line," which cross-cuts the old. Will it last to Nov. 2020?

  153. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "I have to start over totally but knowing we’re all in this together has energized me."

    Preach it, brother. Join us, the tens of millions of Americans not participating in coronahoax. We are Stronger Together, and together we will triumph over tyranny, ignorance, lies, and smug virtue-signalling.

    #CoronaHoax

    triumph over tyranny, ignorance, lies, and smug virtue-signalling.

    Will the Corona Revolution “devour its own children”?

    (Double meaning; the answer to both may be ‘Yes.’)

  154. That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    I would have died for sure twice, and maybe three times under this policy.

    This is why the death rates are spiking full stop. We’ve put fantasists in charge of our institutions.

  155. @Carol
    I've never understood the vague usage of "they/them" when gender is known and uncontested.

    It's confusing because it reads as if some new unknown players got involved.

    I have this fight on Reddit all the time. Someone will refer to their “spouse” as “they”. I will innocently ask if the poster is in a polyamorous relationship.

  156. @Johann Ricke

    The Center for Disease Control was too worried about racial inequities or some crap to actually be worried about controlling diseases.
     
    Not to mention gun control and global warming. Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC's mission to its 30% black workforce, which specializes in generating hot air.

    The CDC was also involved in motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence, obviously to the detriment of its supposed mission of countering infectious diseases.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    That's worth keeping track of.


    CDC priorities:

    Social justice and racial inequities

    gun control and global warming.

    motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence,

    Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC’s mission to its 30% black workforce

    I bet it's up to 40% by now.
  157. @Kyle
    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.

    “MO” must be a term you recently heard and want to use it now as much as you can. But you don’t understand how to use it correctly.

  158. @Diversity Heretic
    The CDC was also involved in motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence, obviously to the detriment of its supposed mission of countering infectious diseases.

    That’s worth keeping track of.

    CDC priorities:

    Social justice and racial inequities

    gun control and global warming.

    motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence,

    Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC’s mission to its 30% black workforce

    I bet it’s up to 40% by now.

    • Replies: @res

    I bet it’s up to 40% by now.
     
    Probably not yet. 2018 data says 32.4%

    https://bestplacestowork.org/rankings/detail/HE39

    Also says 64.2% female. It is interesting to observe how much their staffing increased from 2005 (6,665) to 2017 (9,265). I wonder if that is some of the subtext behind the "Trump reducing CDC staff" controversy.

    The funny thing is, this paper says there were 11,223 people at the CDC in 2012:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23963253
    The paper indicates staff then was 27.2% black. That implies a rather dramatic hiring imbalance during Obama's second term. Who would have guessed?

    Table 1 of that paper indicated 10,036 of the employees were at headquarters (Atlanta).

    Perhaps the most interesting thing in that paper is:
    TABLE 3 Characteristics of the Most Common Scientific Occupational Classifications, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, First Quarter Calendar Year 2012

    There we learn that about 10% (7.8-11.4%) of Environmental Health Workers, Epidemiologists, and Laboratory Workers were black. While 39.1% of Public Health Managers were.

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.
  159. @Kyle
    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.

    Hey, you know what they say, MO money MO problems.

  160. Hail says: • Website
    @Bleuteaux
    It's like the unofficial retirement party for Boomer conservative intellectuals. Reminds me of when I stopped listening to talk radio.

    I’d say it’s not at all as simple as that.

    Two exmaples: Both Hunter Wallace (b.1980, I think) and Richard Spencer (b.1978), who needless to say are far from being “Boomer Conservative Intellectuals,” are believers in, and pushers of, the Corona Panic, and actively anti-CoronaSkeptic. They believe, it appears, that it is a Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, that the media is right this time, and the skeptics are dangerous.

    Hunter Wallace on CoronaSkeptics:

    [Their] minds are hobbled by ignorance, greed and paranoid conspiracy theories and [they] have made a virtue out of selfishness and a fetish out of abstract individual liberty and taken it to an unreasonable and shockingly immoral extreme in a national emergency

    Meanwhile, Ramzpaul (b.1963), who by life station is a lot closer to being a ‘Boomer’ than the two aforementioned, is very consistently and strongly against the Corona Panic. He is a standardbearer CoronaSkeptic. (Btw, Ramzpaul was the median-age contestant in the Boomer Cup 2019, which the great Steve Sailer won.)

    Something about this has divided people along new lines. See here for some thoughts on “the Corona political dividing line,” which cross-cuts the old. Will it last to Nov. 2020?

    • Replies: @Manfred Arcane
    Spencer is either a CIA plant or a sexually confused grifting poseur-- in other words, the Buckley of the Alt-Right. Wallace has also discredited himself completely over this, even deleting the columns of his former contributor Tony Martel as punishment for Martel's preaching of Corona Heresy.

    I think that the reasons for so many Alt-Right leaders' full embrace of the Corona Panic include their love of feeling superior to Trump and Red State America, their quasi-religious veneration of Math and Stats, their unfamiliarity with ordinary working life, and their hostility to religion. They are essentially Champagne Socialists with a racial twist--they think the white working class and middle class are vulgar, gullible morons who deserve to be protected but cannot be allowed to order their own lives, kind of like domestic livestock. Their dream world is a white atheist ethnostate where everyone has a guaranteed basic income doled out by Philosopher-Kings like them; thus, they have no problem with closing churches, forcing everyone to collect employment, or allowing "experts" like Fauci to override the Bill of Rights.

    , @Mr. Anon
    Hunter Wallace seems like a good guy, and his website by itself isn't half bad. But the comment following he attracts mostly seem to be rabid anti-semites, neo-nazis and flat-earth retards. Also, Wallace himself flits around from one political fad to another. He's alt-right, he's not alt-right, Trump's our guy, Trump isn't our guy, Yang is our guy, Yang isn't our guy, etc. Consequently, it's hard to take him seriously.

    It's not surprising that Spencer is onboard with the Corona panic, as he is an authoritarian, and probably an outright fascist. I guess the TRS guys are all onboard with it too. They seem to have pretty much drifted into the authoritarian camp too.

    The Boomer generation is, I believe, generally reckoned as 46' - 64', which would make Ramzpaul a definite Boomer, although a lot of the late Boomers actually have more in common with Gen-Xers, in terms of life-experience, than they do with the Woodstock generation.

  161. @Thatgirl
    As my husband likes to ask childless people "what are you going to do if you need a kidney?"

    I have two nieces, sisters, who have been estranged since college. That’s what I tell them.

  162. @Peterike
    “ As my husband likes to ask childless people “what are you going to do if you need a kidney?”

    What the hell kind of parent would take a kidney from their child?

    Before a healthy young person considers donating a kidney, remember that as you grow older your kidneys may not be functional at 100%. You may need two kidneys to be a healthy individual in your older years.

    And then who knows if you will qualify for a kidney transplant then.

  163. @Hail
    I'd say it's not at all as simple as that.

    Two exmaples: Both Hunter Wallace (b.1980, I think) and Richard Spencer (b.1978), who needless to say are far from being "Boomer Conservative Intellectuals," are believers in, and pushers of, the Corona Panic, and actively anti-CoronaSkeptic. They believe, it appears, that it is a Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, that the media is right this time, and the skeptics are dangerous.

    Hunter Wallace on CoronaSkeptics:


    [Their] minds are hobbled by ignorance, greed and paranoid conspiracy theories and [they] have made a virtue out of selfishness and a fetish out of abstract individual liberty and taken it to an unreasonable and shockingly immoral extreme in a national emergency
     
    Meanwhile, Ramzpaul (b.1963), who by life station is a lot closer to being a 'Boomer' than the two aforementioned, is very consistently and strongly against the Corona Panic. He is a standardbearer CoronaSkeptic. (Btw, Ramzpaul was the median-age contestant in the Boomer Cup 2019, which the great Steve Sailer won.)

    Something about this has divided people along new lines. See here for some thoughts on "the Corona political dividing line," which cross-cuts the old. Will it last to Nov. 2020?

    Spencer is either a CIA plant or a sexually confused grifting poseur– in other words, the Buckley of the Alt-Right. Wallace has also discredited himself completely over this, even deleting the columns of his former contributor Tony Martel as punishment for Martel’s preaching of Corona Heresy.

    I think that the reasons for so many Alt-Right leaders’ full embrace of the Corona Panic include their love of feeling superior to Trump and Red State America, their quasi-religious veneration of Math and Stats, their unfamiliarity with ordinary working life, and their hostility to religion. They are essentially Champagne Socialists with a racial twist–they think the white working class and middle class are vulgar, gullible morons who deserve to be protected but cannot be allowed to order their own lives, kind of like domestic livestock. Their dream world is a white atheist ethnostate where everyone has a guaranteed basic income doled out by Philosopher-Kings like them; thus, they have no problem with closing churches, forcing everyone to collect employment, or allowing “experts” like Fauci to override the Bill of Rights.

  164. @Hail
    I'd say it's not at all as simple as that.

    Two exmaples: Both Hunter Wallace (b.1980, I think) and Richard Spencer (b.1978), who needless to say are far from being "Boomer Conservative Intellectuals," are believers in, and pushers of, the Corona Panic, and actively anti-CoronaSkeptic. They believe, it appears, that it is a Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, that the media is right this time, and the skeptics are dangerous.

    Hunter Wallace on CoronaSkeptics:


    [Their] minds are hobbled by ignorance, greed and paranoid conspiracy theories and [they] have made a virtue out of selfishness and a fetish out of abstract individual liberty and taken it to an unreasonable and shockingly immoral extreme in a national emergency
     
    Meanwhile, Ramzpaul (b.1963), who by life station is a lot closer to being a 'Boomer' than the two aforementioned, is very consistently and strongly against the Corona Panic. He is a standardbearer CoronaSkeptic. (Btw, Ramzpaul was the median-age contestant in the Boomer Cup 2019, which the great Steve Sailer won.)

    Something about this has divided people along new lines. See here for some thoughts on "the Corona political dividing line," which cross-cuts the old. Will it last to Nov. 2020?

    Hunter Wallace seems like a good guy, and his website by itself isn’t half bad. But the comment following he attracts mostly seem to be rabid anti-semites, neo-nazis and flat-earth retards. Also, Wallace himself flits around from one political fad to another. He’s alt-right, he’s not alt-right, Trump’s our guy, Trump isn’t our guy, Yang is our guy, Yang isn’t our guy, etc. Consequently, it’s hard to take him seriously.

    It’s not surprising that Spencer is onboard with the Corona panic, as he is an authoritarian, and probably an outright fascist. I guess the TRS guys are all onboard with it too. They seem to have pretty much drifted into the authoritarian camp too.

    The Boomer generation is, I believe, generally reckoned as 46′ – 64′, which would make Ramzpaul a definite Boomer, although a lot of the late Boomers actually have more in common with Gen-Xers, in terms of life-experience, than they do with the Woodstock generation.

  165. @Kyle
    America’s MO right now is for everyone to stay home and not spread the virus. To me it makes perfect sense to ban visitors in hospitals. Our MO is to crush the infection. Some people are going to die. Anyone spreading the infection is prolonging the lockdown. Allegedly. Who cares about visitors in hospitals? That isn’t our MO. Our MO is to crush the infection.

    Who cares about visitors in hospitals?

    That visitor in the hospital might be the only person there who really cares about the patient. The absence of visiting family in hospitals during this crisis might be one of the reasons for the abnormally high death-rates.

    And anyway, last time I checked, America is supposed to be a free democratic Republic, not a public-health-dictatorship.

  166. @Anonymous

    Weird Al is still funny after forty years. There aren’t many comedians who can make that claim.
     
    It would be far more accurate to say there aren’t many comedy fans who would make your claim.

    It would be far more accurate to say there aren’t many comedy fans who would make your claim.

    And what do you consider to be funny?

  167. @Meretricious
    That's worth keeping track of.


    CDC priorities:

    Social justice and racial inequities

    gun control and global warming.

    motorcycle helmet laws and domestic violence,

    Note that political advocacy requires no scientific expertise. They tailored the CDC’s mission to its 30% black workforce

    I bet it's up to 40% by now.

    I bet it’s up to 40% by now.

    Probably not yet. 2018 data says 32.4%

    https://bestplacestowork.org/rankings/detail/HE39

    Also says 64.2% female. It is interesting to observe how much their staffing increased from 2005 (6,665) to 2017 (9,265). I wonder if that is some of the subtext behind the “Trump reducing CDC staff” controversy.

    The funny thing is, this paper says there were 11,223 people at the CDC in 2012:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23963253
    The paper indicates staff then was 27.2% black. That implies a rather dramatic hiring imbalance during Obama’s second term. Who would have guessed?

    Table 1 of that paper indicated 10,036 of the employees were at headquarters (Atlanta).

    Perhaps the most interesting thing in that paper is:
    TABLE 3 Characteristics of the Most Common Scientific Occupational Classifications, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, First Quarter Calendar Year 2012

    There we learn that about 10% (7.8-11.4%) of Environmental Health Workers, Epidemiologists, and Laboratory Workers were black. While 39.1% of Public Health Managers were.

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.
     
    The CDC is in Atlanta. Next question.
  168. @jill
    140 hospitals furloughing workers in response to COVID-19


    up to date April 17


    https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.html

    Not surprising, since all non urgent stuff is canceled.

    My wife is a health care worker. Some workers are being redeployed to the Front. The rest have their hours cut. For my wife’s employer, they give people 1 or 2 paid days off each week. But, they can also let people home early. That is either vacation time or unpaid time.

    I can imagine that more financially strapped clinics and hospitals away from the Front will be laying people off.

  169. @captflee
    ROTFLOLATSM...highly efficient medical system. Do let me, or more likely, my great great great great great grandchild know when that happy day rolls around. Hell, get the annual deaths from medical misadventure below those from diabetes and I'll throw y'all a parade.

    Having over the last decade seen rather more of the inside of our local hospital than one would wish upon his most dire enemy, I suspect that the proportion of counterproductive family members is probably about the same as that of incompetent and/or indifferent hospital staff, so let's call that a wash.

    Last year, after my wife was transferred from the MICU to a step-down floor I made the serious error of leaving my wife's side for a little less than an hour to go home and feed the dogs. When I stepped off the elevator on my return trip, I could hear a myriad of alarms emanating from rooms up and down the corridor, including my wife's, as she was in distress, with oxygen sats spiraling downward.

    So, off I went to find a live body...hey, luckily not so hard to find with all the singing...we're all over on a parallel corridor, eating cake and celebrating somebody's special occasion. I am not more often than once a decade or so sorely tempted to smack a woman, and resisted the urge yet again, but did home in on an RN and using my best COMMAND VOICE hasten her to my wife's bedside.

    Seems that despite my repeated warnings, including placing a written one in bold six inch high letters on the highly visible white board in her room, stating her extreme allergy to a certain med, in my brief absence someone administered said med, with all too predictable results. When I discovered this, I must admit to momentarily losing my cool, tearing off my day pack and violently throwing it onto the floor. Oh, the Humanity! This apparently got the hospital po-lice sicced on me. Before they could defenestrate me and allow the staff to go ahead and kill my wife through neglect and numbskullery I was fortunately able to contact the patient advocate,who was able to defuse the situation with the cops and bring in a competent nurse, ending the crisis.

    Look, my professional life was spent among a wide slice of the IQ bell curve, albeit one with a strangely disproportionate right tail, so I don't doubt get that good help is damned hard to come by. Many of us have had to deal with the left halves of the intelligence and diligence curves, and can understand the frustration of repeatedly answering what seems to us stupid questions, and get that you have to maintain some professional detachment (the patient and family's existential crisis being merely a small slice of your long work day, not much different from the one before and the ones to follow), but one should still strive to be closer to the empathetic than to indifferent, no?

    I could not agree more with Mr. Anon's comment, and since that day have never left my wife alone in any sort of medical setting for more than a very few minutes. The number of nurses and physicians who have urged me to do so would, I hope, concern you. I just accept it as the way things are these days.

    That said, I hereby sing hosannas in praise of the majority of decent and competent hospital personnel who have shepherded us through her illnesses. If 50% of the ventilated do not survive, and we've gotten a favorable coin flip three times in a row, it's probably the staff and not pure luck.

    My wife is a low level health care worker, but she always knows all the doctors and always finds out the doctors. I mean ALL the doctors. I remember a gathering once where she and the chief of surgery at a local hospital spent the whole gathering gossiping about various doctors and staff.

    What does that mean?

    It means she and her family always get the best possible treatment. The difference in treatment can be enormous.

    There was a time when she wasn’t working, and we lived in an area where she didn’t know the doctors etc. That was a nightmare. It actually took us a week to get my son’s broken leg treated. I wish I was making that up.

    So the quality of care one gets depends a lot on who is advocating for the patient, but also on who the patient or the advocate knows.

  170. Having spent altogether too much time in and around hospital wards and ICUs for someone my age in the past 10 years, I will say that this “no visitors under any circumstances” policy has made me resolve to not go to hospital unless I am so far gone I’m past fighting against the person dragging me.

    It’s inhumane, monstrous, and yes, dangerous.

    When I first read of people soberly recounting that they now had a policy to have families bid their farewells over FaceTime I did a double-take. Was this some kind of satire in poor taste? No, apparently, it’s some bugperson MD/MPH’s idea of how to practice medicine. If I were the dying person I hope I’d have enough vigor left in me to deliver one last good smack to the person dangling the device in my face. If I were the family on the other end, I might be driven to (fedpost redacted.)

    Sure, we want to get the contagion under control. But at what cost? Is this the society we truly want to become? Isn’t there some way to let people sign a waiver–certainly a wife or husband of 50 years would happily sign such a document, having already been exposed at home–so they can hold their loved one’s hand at the end of life?

    It makes me wonder what the true aim of these policies is. I think it’s that the medical people are afraid, they are losing control and they want to regain it, and they don’t care who they hurt in the process of doing so.

  171. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter."

    Breathtaking ignorance. Infant mortality has declined steeply in the last 130 years. Throw out the dead babies, and our ancestors always averaged about 70- to 80-year lifespans.

    So decreases in infant mortality had nothing to do with modern medicine? What a genius you are!

    Shall we pretend maternal mortality has stayed the same?

  172. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Without modern medicine our life expectancy would be decades shorter."

    Breathtaking ignorance. Infant mortality has declined steeply in the last 130 years. Throw out the dead babies, and our ancestors always averaged about 70- to 80-year lifespans.

    Infant mortality improvement was accomplished through…. magic? Or modern medicine? How about maternal mortality? It was the leading cause of women’s death until modern medicine.

    Having a living mother makes our lives worse?

    Your 70 year old ancestor walked around with a painful tooth abscess or a limp , blind or disfigured. This was more comfortable?

  173. @res

    I bet it’s up to 40% by now.
     
    Probably not yet. 2018 data says 32.4%

    https://bestplacestowork.org/rankings/detail/HE39

    Also says 64.2% female. It is interesting to observe how much their staffing increased from 2005 (6,665) to 2017 (9,265). I wonder if that is some of the subtext behind the "Trump reducing CDC staff" controversy.

    The funny thing is, this paper says there were 11,223 people at the CDC in 2012:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23963253
    The paper indicates staff then was 27.2% black. That implies a rather dramatic hiring imbalance during Obama's second term. Who would have guessed?

    Table 1 of that paper indicated 10,036 of the employees were at headquarters (Atlanta).

    Perhaps the most interesting thing in that paper is:
    TABLE 3 Characteristics of the Most Common Scientific Occupational Classifications, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, First Quarter Calendar Year 2012

    There we learn that about 10% (7.8-11.4%) of Environmental Health Workers, Epidemiologists, and Laboratory Workers were black. While 39.1% of Public Health Managers were.

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.

    The CDC is in Atlanta. Next question.

    • Replies: @res

    The CDC is in Atlanta. Next question.
     
    I know. But that does not explain the change from 27.2% black in 2012 to 32.4% in 2018. Especially when you consider that some of the occupations are more like 10% black.

    Though it is interesting how close those numbers are to the black % population in the Atlanta metro area in the last two censuses:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Atlanta#Metro_Atlanta

    Perhaps they have a mandate targeting that proportion?

    P.S. If you go look at my comment again you might notice that I specifically stated how many employees (about 90%) were at their headquarters in Atlanta.
  174. @Jim Don Bob

    P.S. It would be interesting to know what kind of hiring policies got them to 32.4% black.
     
    The CDC is in Atlanta. Next question.

    The CDC is in Atlanta. Next question.

    I know. But that does not explain the change from 27.2% black in 2012 to 32.4% in 2018. Especially when you consider that some of the occupations are more like 10% black.

    Though it is interesting how close those numbers are to the black % population in the Atlanta metro area in the last two censuses:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Atlanta#Metro_Atlanta

    Perhaps they have a mandate targeting that proportion?

    P.S. If you go look at my comment again you might notice that I specifically stated how many employees (about 90%) were at their headquarters in Atlanta.

  175. That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.

    Meh…

    I don’t what the research says, but speaking from the other side of the equation (a hospital worker dealing with families), I would say that families are often unable to identify what the real issues with and needs of their sick relative are.

    Presence of a relative might help by inducing empathy, but relative advocacy probably not.

    • Replies: @res

    I would say that families are often unable to identify what the real issues with and needs of their sick relative are.

    Presence of a relative might help by inducing empathy, but relative advocacy probably not.
     
    It is worth noting that commenters here are not a random sample of people. Your assertion might very well work differently for different types of people.

    In case it is not obvious, I have a big problem with "authorities" like doctors assuming I am as stupid as most people they deal with. And that becomes even worse on average when dealing with mid-tier authorities. At least most of the doctors are usually smart enough to figure it out if they take a few minutes to talk to me. Of course, for doctors, whether or not their egos allow them to admit anyone other than them knows anything is another matter.
  176. I went to an ER as a patient while I was in the USA recently. It was quite unnerving as the waiting area is filled with coughing patients and the actual facility is full of bored EMTs who are sitting around not practicing good social distancing or hygiene or PPE.

  177. @Chrisnonymous

    That’s sensible, buy my suspicion has long been you are less likely to die in the hospital if you have a loved one there a lot of the time advocating for you.
     
    Meh...

    I don't what the research says, but speaking from the other side of the equation (a hospital worker dealing with families), I would say that families are often unable to identify what the real issues with and needs of their sick relative are.

    Presence of a relative might help by inducing empathy, but relative advocacy probably not.

    I would say that families are often unable to identify what the real issues with and needs of their sick relative are.

    Presence of a relative might help by inducing empathy, but relative advocacy probably not.

    It is worth noting that commenters here are not a random sample of people. Your assertion might very well work differently for different types of people.

    In case it is not obvious, I have a big problem with “authorities” like doctors assuming I am as stupid as most people they deal with. And that becomes even worse on average when dealing with mid-tier authorities. At least most of the doctors are usually smart enough to figure it out if they take a few minutes to talk to me. Of course, for doctors, whether or not their egos allow them to admit anyone other than them knows anything is another matter.

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