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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

A Little Learning
Steve Sailer

September 28, 2022

At least since the 2002 book IQ and the Wealth of Nations by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen, social scientists have been publishing rankings of countries by average cognitive test scores and pointing out how closely these figures correlate with gross domestic product per capita.

The mere existence of this data causes outrage among the growing numbers of science denialists, who are increasingly calling for banning all scientific research touching upon differences in cognitive capabilities among populations.

On the other hand, investors want to know these numbers because they are closely linked to national prosperity. So, I’ll present below my three-part graph of the World Bank’s “Harmonized Learning Outcomes” for 174 countries.

Two main types of cognitive exams contribute to the various lists: IQ and school achievement.

Here’s the bottom of the barrel of this huge graph of the World Bank’s database of school achievement test scores:

Note that the number of datapoints behind the World Bank’s estimates down at the bottom of the graph tend to be few. Niger’s score, 2.7 standard deviations behind the world’s most learned country (try to guess — the answer isn’t surprising) is based on two regional reading tests over the 2000 to 2017 period. On the other hand, if you had to guess who’d come in last, choosing the country with the world’s highest birthrate sounds about right.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. That graph raises more questions than answers.

    For starters, how did Albania score lower than El Salvador, and why is Albania color coded as middle eastern instead of European?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    Judgement call.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Corvinus

    , @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    They're trying to say cousin marriage without saying Islam?

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @AndrewR

    If you visit Albania you will understand immediately how they scored lower than El Salvador. Any Serb could probably explain this to you in more detail.

    Speaking of which, the fact that Tesla was "pure Serb" is kind of meaningless. There is a lot of genetic diversity among Serbs, given that for centuries it was a religious identity, not a linguistic or political identity. Some of the smartest people I have known are Serbs, and yet in Austria and Germany a lot of Serb immigrants seem to cluster towards the lower IQ side of the spectrum. There must be a lot of variation in that population.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Hodag
    @AndrewR

    The opening scene in the first Borat movie was shot in Albania.

  2. What we really need is a country ranking based on a decadence index.

    • Replies: @theMann
    @The Alarmist

    Or a wickedness index.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  3. @AndrewR
    That graph raises more questions than answers.

    For starters, how did Albania score lower than El Salvador, and why is Albania color coded as middle eastern instead of European?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hodag

    Judgement call.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Steve Sailer

    Because they act that way? A lot of Albanian behavior seems closer to the Persian Gulf than the rest of the Adriatic.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    Speaking about judgement calls…

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/29/politics/trump-special-master-request-doj-inventory/index.html

    You really need to wake up here.

  4. Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Daniel H

    The Caribbean islands are all different. T&T has a high-IQ Indian population, reasonably honest government, plus some of the same oil deposit which made Venezuela rich (magic dirt indeed), so they can afford projects & education. They're pretty much the best one. At the opposite end is Haiti, and in the middle are places like Bermuda or Barbados. Even several of the USVI you never hear about have pretty good government and low crime.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Daniel H


    We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American* the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.
     

    However nearby Guyana has the same population mix and is ranked very low. Trinidad and Tobago has been oil rich for decades, but Guyana has only just started to get oil revenues from a major offshore oilfield developed by Exxon. They (locals in Guyana) are talking about Guyana becoming the Dubai of South America.

    Or will Guyana become The Beverly Hillbilly of South America? Time will tell.

    * Actually English-and-Creole-speaking West Indian black. I don't know where you get the idea that they are African Americans. South-American Africans?

    Replies: @prosa123

    , @Bill Jones
    @Daniel H

    African-Americans in Trinidad?

    When I was there I saw about two, both of them tourists.

    , @martin_2
    @Daniel H

    T & T had the benefit of being in the British Empire. This is possibly the principal reason it is doing reasonably well now.

    , @epebble
    @Daniel H

    We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    Unfortunately, reality is a bit more mixed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Trinidad_and_Tobago

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/20201023_UNODC_Intentional_homicides_by_country_-_highest_rates_and_most_populous_countries.png

    , @TelfoedJohn
    @Daniel H

    Small island black countries always do well. T&T, Bermuda, Barbados, Bahamas. Any bigger and the problems start appearing. Jamaica is bad, and Haiti is worse.

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Daniel H

    I always associate it with V.S. Naipaul and his essay on Michael X and the black power killings in the 1970's. John and Yoko thought so highly of the cult that they gifted Michael X with a grand piano!

    , @Jugon
    @Daniel H

    After researching I found out the homicide rate in Trinidad and Tobago is more than 30 people per 100 000.seems like it's place where trigger happy gangs run loose and settlements are racially polarized.

  5. Being a sports fan, Steve, where do you stand on the Battle of the Golden West?

    The Mighty Parramatta Eels vs the up and coming future of Australia, Penrith Panthers, 3rd time Superbowl attendees going for back to back premierships

    Neither club have a policy on Ukraine and neither have made statements on world wide love of jewry, and all that entails, both clubs are card carrying, 100% committed to Struggle Street Oz.

    That version of Oz all too real, struggling to pay rent, struggling to doff its cap to passing roadshow’s of elite transgenders, hoping to eat, choosing between food and electricity or gas.

    The Oz forgone in Keating’s Bannana Republic Revolution when he and Hawke sold us out to the USA and the forces of International Kleptocracy.

    We had to choose between Oz as White Nationalist entirely focused upon representing her own people and Oz, an Economy of world Renown!

    What a choice!

    Of course the polls returned The Economy while the people starved!

    Anyway, no matter what has passed, and what will come, Steve, who will you be with this Sunday?

    Parra or Penrith?

    Here’s some thinking music…

  6. It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Foreign Expert


    The Philippines and some African countries, for example.
     
    Agreed, it could be interesting, only I'd note that Filipinos are often tri-lingual from childhood, and most African countries speak their colonial language along with various tribal tongues.

    That said, I'm still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Foreign Expert


    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.
     
    The Dutch and the Scandinavians would probably come at the top of the table. The United States would surely be at the very bottom followed by French Canadians.
    , @Graham
    @Foreign Expert

    Many people in west-central Africa speak four or five languages as a matter of course, particularly in the so-called fragmentation zone, where many small language communities overlap. Language is one of the few mental faculties facilitated by a particular part of the brain, which means that it is less correlated with general intelligence than other capabilities like mathematical skill.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Pincher Martin

    , @Erik Sieven
    @Foreign Expert

    at least in Germany African immigrants are often more quick to learn the language than immigrants from East Asia.

  7. Thanks to Steve for the great blog piece. There are some technical concerns regarding the last sentence in the following paragraph:

    “How good is Singapore’s 575? Well, that’s 0.63 standard deviations higher than the U.S. So the median Singaporean student would score at about the 74th percentile in the U.S., which is a noticeable difference but not immense, rather like the difference between whites and Hispanics in America. On the other hand, the gaps in the normal probability distribution become bigger at the right edge of the bell curve, so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    The first problem is that 100 is the “pooled standard deviation” across students in all countries, even though there are discernible differences in the standard deviations calculated within each country. This small correction matters quite a bit when estimating the probability density in the upper tail, that is, “higher percentage of whiz kids”. If Singapore has a lower standard deviation of test results, then it can have a higher mean but a lower percentage of “whiz kids”.

    The second problem is even more technical. The normal-distribution assumption is ok in the middle range of the true distribution but becomes strained and unrealistic in the upper and lower tails. The data does not actually look exactly normal in those extreme regions. Obvious example: the percentage of students in the lower tail getting negative scores (which is impossible) is strictly positive under exact normality. The upper tail is also not exactly normal.

    In summary, the prediction of a higher percentage of whiz kids in Singapore is implied by naïve application of normal distribution theory but is not a reliable prediction.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch, Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Peter Johnson


    This could be because IQ drives school performance—an unpopular but reasonable view.

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter. For example, in the U.S., federal NAEP scores dropped sharply when schools switched to remote learning during the pandemic.
     

    Steve is going out of his way to deliberately water down the obvious. Rudimentary principles of HBD, backed by mountains of data, teach that: (a) Academic success is highly determined by IQ; (b) IQ is highly determined by genetics; and (c) Mean genetic IQ is highly determined by race (I.e., East Asian>White>Hispanic>Black). The 147-country data set confirms these facts exactly (allowing for the usual statistical variations and noise arising from different sample sizes, testing protocols, and whatnot). But the article ignores genetics entirely and merely notes that IQ exists, while being totally agnostic as to why it might vary between countries. The article's "alternative" hypothesis that differences are due to schools simply not being "strong" where scores are low is the exact opposite of race realism.

    I don't mean to rag on Steve excessively for avoiding controversy. But if you can't say this stuff out loud in Taki Magazine, where can you?

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Steve Sailer

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Johnson

    "so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    SHWIZZATT!! The Iron Zippo of Slang Nazi zips into action!

    The correct expression is "wiz kids" as in "wizards". A "whiz kid" would be someone who can squirt his pee at prodigious lengths.

    An interesting talent in its own right to be sure, but I'll be hanging over at Yenching with the actual wiz kids, thankee very much.

    And with that little bit of tendentious tedium, Slang Nazi snaps his Zippo shut, scoots out the French window, over the balcony and into the passenger seat of a waiting Miata convertible, and vanishes into the night.... Ugh. Lamppost, dammit. Stupid blood alcohol levels.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  8. OT — an Irish anon has:
    [Indian] Doctor, a cardiologist no less, pushed the vaccines on tel[evision]. His ultra fit dad died from a SURPRISE! heart attack, and now he says the va[ccines] must be halted since they “cause unprecedented harm.”

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @J.Ross


    Vaccine Damage Payment Scheme: Covid-19
    – in Westminster Hall at 4:26 pm on 6th September 2022.
     
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2022-09-06c.61.0&s=speaker%3A11791#g76.0

    "My constituent Jamie Scott was a fit 44-year-old when he had his AstraZeneca covid-19 vaccination on 23 April 2021. He woke with a headache on 3 May, then experienced vomiting and impaired speech. He was taken to hospital by ambulance where he had multiple operations and was in a coma for more than four weeks. His wife Kate was told by doctors that he may not survive and that if he did, he would likely be severely disabled. The couple have two young children. Jamie was diagnosed with a cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, or CVST, and subsequently with vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia, or VITT. I am pleased to say that he has recovered somewhat, but he is still unable to return to the life he led before. His consultant’s opinion in December was very clear:

    “It is very highly likely that the vaccine was responsible for the development of his symptoms (with no other possible explanation for the development of the symptoms).”

    Jamie and Kate Scott are here today listening to me describe what happened to them, because their lives were changed utterly last year when Jamie did as the Government urged him to do and received a vaccination. I should make it clear that neither I nor they are making any argument against vaccination, but we are arguing that the relatively tiny number of people who are injured by state-advocated vaccination should be properly looked after."
     
  9. @AndrewR
    That graph raises more questions than answers.

    For starters, how did Albania score lower than El Salvador, and why is Albania color coded as middle eastern instead of European?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hodag

    They’re trying to say cousin marriage without saying Islam?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    Albania is still a nominally Islamic country, although communism seems to have done away with most if not all of the genuine adherence.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @The Alarmist

  10. Bloody Hell Steve, where did you get that graph of where we in the UK get our lovely male military age refugees from?

    I’ll bet they’re planning how to boost my pension even as I write this.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Gordo

    I’ll bet they’re planning how to boost my pension even as I write this.

    'Boost' as in raise or 'boost' as in steal?

  11. @The Alarmist
    What we really need is a country ranking based on a decadence index.

    Replies: @theMann

    Or a wickedness index.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @theMann

    USA #1 on both counts

  12. @AndrewR
    That graph raises more questions than answers.

    For starters, how did Albania score lower than El Salvador, and why is Albania color coded as middle eastern instead of European?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hodag

    If you visit Albania you will understand immediately how they scored lower than El Salvador. Any Serb could probably explain this to you in more detail.

    Speaking of which, the fact that Tesla was “pure Serb” is kind of meaningless. There is a lot of genetic diversity among Serbs, given that for centuries it was a religious identity, not a linguistic or political identity. Some of the smartest people I have known are Serbs, and yet in Austria and Germany a lot of Serb immigrants seem to cluster towards the lower IQ side of the spectrum. There must be a lot of variation in that population.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I think Tesla is both overrated & underrated.

    He is overrated because some New Agey lunatics started, somewhere in the 1980s, to depict him as someone almost super-human in mental capabilities. This was adorned with weird stories about his telepathic communication with aliens, mysterious secret weapons he had supposedly invented & similar poppycock.

    On the other hand, backlash ensued among real electrical engineers who were irritated by such balderdash & relegated him to just one among many figures in the field of electrical engineering.

    To conclude:

    * he was not a scientist, but an inventor
    * he is even not the most influential figure in electrical engineering, this place rightfully belonging to Charles Steinmetz
    * but his four great inventions definitely place him in the company of 30–40 greatest inventors of all times, so it is sad to see his posthumous reputation going up and down so wildly
    * he was, in many senses, a modern inventor, i.e. scientifically educated, while most other inventors were just empiricists without any theoretical knowledge.

    So, my opinion would be: he is wildly overrated in popular culture; he is somehow underrated among his (modern) colleagues.

    Replies: @Dutch Boy

  13. @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    Judgement call.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Corvinus

    Because they act that way? A lot of Albanian behavior seems closer to the Persian Gulf than the rest of the Adriatic.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Redneck farmer

    One Hindu Nationalist reader of the past had complex theories about IQ, but his theory that Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @YetAnotherAnon, @Pixo

  14. anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:

    Is there a direct link to the ranking of all 176 countries? I can’t find it on the World Bank website.

    Among the giga-countries, India’s 399 is based on India trying out the PISA in one northern and one southern state in 2009, bombing it, getting depressed, and never taking an international test again.

    India planned to return to PISA by testing students in Chandigarh, a special city serving as the joint capital for two states with a GDP per capita similar to the national capital. The students in 2000 were being trained to do well (“Chandigarh schools to now train new students for Pisa”).

    At the last minute, India pulled out of PISA 2022 in July citing the pandemic effect on schooling.

    India, which is not a member of the OECD, had last participated in Pisa in 2009, when it had ranked 73rd among 74 countries, above only Kyrgyzstan.

    Minister of state for education Annapurna Devi told the Lok Sabha on Monday that the government had taken a relook at its decision to participate in Pisa 2022 because of the impact of Covid-induced school closure on learning levels.

    https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/central-government-cries-off-global-test-for-teenagers/cid/1875585

    Clearly, Indians are sensitive about this test. I think deep down they understand the test could reveal their country doesn’t have the potential to become developed within the timespan of the 21st century. However, there is no country yearning more to become a superpower than India.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    It's not unreasonable for India to bail out of PISA until it's over the effects of covid on schooling. I hope India has been getting better at schooling its children since 2009.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Craken

    , @Muggles
    @anonymous

    India is huge but has a well deserved reputation for cheating on all kinds of tests.

    It is endemic there.

    However with many professional or Western educational type of tests I suspect they are monitoring the testing pretty thoroughly. Or have to do that to get reciprocal recognition.

    The fact that nations can game this system (in these essays) is a major flaw. Small poor countries can test only the best schools. Likewise China and other places can test only in regions where affluence is high and schools are better. Or where less advanced ethnics/tribes are not schooled much if at all, so are deliberately excluded.

    Only a truly randomly chosen population to be tested would be very accurate. With outside test protocols administered by non locals.

    In the US you have a lot of average students, some very good, and many from inner cities can't read at all, or barely. English or anything else. Math, forget it.

    The only real 'systemic racism' practiced in the US is in inner city/big city school districts where subpar barely literate teachers process herds of semi literate and/or lazy/stupid students through to get meaningless degrees showing that they somehow "graduated." Though many don't even do that well.

    You have to discount the majority non White school results by about 15-25% or more. Unless they are mainly non jungle Asians with employed parents.

    A simple test would be to ask students to read an entire page from Charles Dickens or Mark Twain. If they can understand the words and get most of the pronunciation right. How many could read an entire full page without running out of the room, crying?

  15. The Phillipines is kind of a tragedy. The East Asian country that can’t. On paper they have a lot of advantages – English speaking population available to work for low wages, proximity to dynamic markets, American legal traditions, etc. I’ve met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is. A genetic ceiling makes a lot of sense. Indonesia (395) and other countries with a lot of Malayo-Polynesian populations seem to also hit this ceiling.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Peter Akuleyev


    I’ve met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is.
     
    I think it's because these businessmen have deluded themselves into thinking the Philippines are a fancy Asian country when the reality is that they are a jungle Asian country.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Nay, given that Malays and Indos are the same race as Pinoys , the only factor in the wealth of these Nations is whose colonies they were. Brits and Dutch just make far better masters than Americans.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

  16. Ghana’s extremely poor ranking is a bit of a surprise, given that it’s often held up as one of the more successful sub-Saharan nations and seems to be a bit less dysfunctional than its neighbors.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Patrick1982

    Ghana hasn't taken any primary school tests, just secondary schools. It could be that Ghana is doing better at primary schooling.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Patrick1982

    Steve's mention of Ghana ...


    The authors in Nature draw an important distinction between “schooling” and “learning.” For example, they commend Ghana, which is often considered to have the best government in West Africa, for extending primary and even secondary education to almost all children. Yet, so far, little learning seems to be going on in the classrooms of Ghana, which ranks second-to-last in test performance.
     
    ... is evidence for what I think: A bunch of these African scores are actually way higher than their capability. I believe they are unrepresentative samples.

    For instance eSwantini (Swaziland). Economically it's exceptionally well to do for Africa, heavily tied to the much richer South Africa. But realistically mostly it's a dump--a big Swazi sugar plantation, with Swazis doing stoop labor. No way in hell the average Swazi kid is actually performing within a standard deviation of the average American kid--at the level of Bulgarian or Uruguayan. No, a bunch of them simply aren't regularly in school, or didn't sit for whatever test.

    Ghana--by being well enough run to actually have almost all kids in school--is actually much more representative of what an average African--or at least West African--nation is capable of with the sort of normal schooling a well run but normal West African country could do.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  17. @anonymous
    Is there a direct link to the ranking of all 176 countries? I can't find it on the World Bank website.

    Among the giga-countries, India’s 399 is based on India trying out the PISA in one northern and one southern state in 2009, bombing it, getting depressed, and never taking an international test again.
     
    India planned to return to PISA by testing students in Chandigarh, a special city serving as the joint capital for two states with a GDP per capita similar to the national capital. The students in 2000 were being trained to do well ("Chandigarh schools to now train new students for Pisa").

    At the last minute, India pulled out of PISA 2022 in July citing the pandemic effect on schooling.

    India, which is not a member of the OECD, had last participated in Pisa in 2009, when it had ranked 73rd among 74 countries, above only Kyrgyzstan.

    Minister of state for education Annapurna Devi told the Lok Sabha on Monday that the government had taken a relook at its decision to participate in Pisa 2022 because of the impact of Covid-induced school closure on learning levels.

    https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/central-government-cries-off-global-test-for-teenagers/cid/1875585
     
    Clearly, Indians are sensitive about this test. I think deep down they understand the test could reveal their country doesn't have the potential to become developed within the timespan of the 21st century. However, there is no country yearning more to become a superpower than India.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Muggles

    It’s not unreasonable for India to bail out of PISA until it’s over the effects of covid on schooling. I hope India has been getting better at schooling its children since 2009.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    If other developing countries are going ahead with PISA 2022 then the comparison with other developing countries will be fair. It shows India doesn't want to face the results.

    , @Craken
    @Steve Sailer

    A few years ago I came across an estimate that 45% of India's children were malnourished. That seemed shockingly high, much higher than the average in black Africa, so I figured it was a case of some NGOs exaggerating the problem to raise its profile & their funding. When I did some further reading, it turned out that 45% was a good approximation of the number of children who were measurably, physically stunted. A nation with a declining birth rate and which is doubling its per capita income every 12 years certainly *could* do better. I wonder how much of this particular failure arises from the caste system. In any case, both issues, caste and undernourishment, likely depress average IQ. Additionally, southern India has a 20% rate of cousin marriage--the area of prevalence corresponding to the area covered by the Dravidian language family. Strangely, this area also has an unusually low birth rate. The highest birth rates are generally found in areas of high outbreeding (95%+), like north-central India.

    Replies: @Danindc

  18. @Redneck farmer
    @Steve Sailer

    Because they act that way? A lot of Albanian behavior seems closer to the Persian Gulf than the rest of the Adriatic.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    One Hindu Nationalist reader of the past had complex theories about IQ, but his theory that Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.

    • Replies: @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Steve Sailer

    Caste complicates things in India a lot - in one sense "India" is made up of many peoples with, at least until VERY recently, no interbreeding. Plus groups like Jains who are very bright.

    I doubt the wealthy Indians paying £30 for a meal in our marble-clad hotel did much breeding with the people living under tarpaulins a couple of hundred yards away.

    , @Pixo
    @Steve Sailer

    “ Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.”

    Or course it does, but probably more than 5 points in the worst cases.

    There’s two levels of Islamic degradation of the human brain. The first is full conversion, like Albania and Pakistan.

    Then, less bad than full Islamification, is conquest and temporary dhimmitude. Look at Spain v France, Greece v Italy. The period of Islamic occupation sapped the IQ of the Spanish and Greeks compared to their non-occupied neighbors.

    North Africa during Roman times and even the dark ages was just as rich and cultured as Europe, and what is now Turkey, Greece, and the Levant were the richest and most literate corners of the world. Islam raped and pillaged them into permanent backwaters.

  19. @theMann
    @The Alarmist

    Or a wickedness index.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    USA #1 on both counts

  20. @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    They're trying to say cousin marriage without saying Islam?

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Albania is still a nominally Islamic country, although communism seems to have done away with most if not all of the genuine adherence.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    But their family relations are wierd, they still have blood feuds.

    , @The Alarmist
    @AndrewR

    Albania was a far better country when Enver Hoxha was calling the shots.

  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Redneck farmer

    One Hindu Nationalist reader of the past had complex theories about IQ, but his theory that Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @YetAnotherAnon, @Pixo

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    • Replies: @Batman
    @Hannah Katz

    Same is true for Nigerians in America. Only the smartest make it here, so you might be tricked into thinking it's a smart country because the sample is very unrepresentative. What's worse is all the Nigerians in America are absolutely miserable people because they felt like (and were) an Albert Einstein intellectual God with their 115 IQ in the home country because they lived among among hundreds of millions of people who are effectively mentally retarded.

    Replies: @International Jew

    , @Pixo
    @Hannah Katz

    Hindu migration is ultra selective and their kids regress to the mean far worse than any other US population. They nonetheless get shunted off to college where their downward mobility makes them resentful of White America.

    NE Asian migration is much preferable than S Asian for this reason. Ultimately becoming a little more like S Korea or Japan has its upsides. If India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have any redeeming qualities I am unaware of them.

    Replies: @sb

    , @ic1000
    @Hannah Katz

    > I wonder if those wonder kids [first-generation Indian-Americans] will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    It's likely that they will revert to their group's mean, e.g. the mean of the population comprised of their recent ancestors. The mean for Brahmin-descended kids will be different from the mean for Dalit-descended kids.

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Hannah Katz


    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area...
     
    A lot of Indian immigrants are medical doctors who are married to female doctors, and their children usually do well at school as their parents help them with sciences and make them turn off the TV.
    , @International Jew
    @Hannah Katz


    I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.
     
    My now long experience with Indians in the SF Bay area is that the kids are more, not less, impressive than the parents.

    Replies: @ForeverCARealist

    , @AnotherDad
    @Hannah Katz


    Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.
     
    Everyone here at Steve's joint--anyone HBD aware--should have firm understand that India is simply not a one-people nation like say Sweden (was) or Japan or even mostly a big sprawling ethnic group like China, or even a tribal conglomeration like Nigeria.

    There simply is no such thing as an "Indian" like there is a "Swede" or "Han Chinese".

    Indian had something like 40,000 distinct endogamous groups. (You can't even come up with a credible estimate.) My best friend from grad school and his wife are both middle-class Marathi Brahmins, from the same area ... but slightly different sorts of Marathi Brahmins who would not have been an acceptable match (don't ask me) even a generation earlier.

    In Europe, even under feudalism there were ... two castes. Nobility and commoners. Our priestly class--unlike their Brahmins--didn't even (normally) breed. And the nobility was constantly refreshed by nobility snapping up pretty girls from the gentry. And gentry being elevated to nobility by this or that service. Basically, even under feudalism European genes were highly mobile.

    To conceptualize India, think of something more like having 40,000 different groups like the Jews--each insisting on keeping themselves tribally distinct, even from other very similar peoples in the same social class in the same area. But without the Jews' religious hostility--instead everyone on the same page, religiously but the religion supporting/justifying the tribal endogamy. And then at the bottom an untouchable group everyone else thinks is beneath them to breed with like blacks in America--except even more strict ideas about purity and contamination.

    Indians in America have some variance (ex. the Sikhs). But most of the ones you find in the coastal and tech heavy areas of the US in neighborhoods with "good schools" are super-heavily selected--often US grad school--and from small high-caste groups, most of them Brahmins.

    And correspondingly their "regression to the mean" is only plausibly toward the mean of their parent's caste group. And even that is mitigated by the screen of who comes here and who they marry. These people have essentially nothing to do with whatever the nominal mean "Indian IQ" is.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  22. Pro tip: read TakiMag on an iPhone and turn Reader Mode on. It’s intolerable otherwise because of ads, including animations and popups.

    • Agree: TWS
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Graham

    Ads? Pop-ups? Are you using a good browser?

    Replies: @Graham

  23. @Patrick1982
    Ghana's extremely poor ranking is a bit of a surprise, given that it's often held up as one of the more successful sub-Saharan nations and seems to be a bit less dysfunctional than its neighbors.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad

    Ghana hasn’t taken any primary school tests, just secondary schools. It could be that Ghana is doing better at primary schooling.

  24. @AndrewR
    That graph raises more questions than answers.

    For starters, how did Albania score lower than El Salvador, and why is Albania color coded as middle eastern instead of European?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hodag

    The opening scene in the first Borat movie was shot in Albania.

  25. @Peter Akuleyev
    @AndrewR

    If you visit Albania you will understand immediately how they scored lower than El Salvador. Any Serb could probably explain this to you in more detail.

    Speaking of which, the fact that Tesla was "pure Serb" is kind of meaningless. There is a lot of genetic diversity among Serbs, given that for centuries it was a religious identity, not a linguistic or political identity. Some of the smartest people I have known are Serbs, and yet in Austria and Germany a lot of Serb immigrants seem to cluster towards the lower IQ side of the spectrum. There must be a lot of variation in that population.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    I think Tesla is both overrated & underrated.

    He is overrated because some New Agey lunatics started, somewhere in the 1980s, to depict him as someone almost super-human in mental capabilities. This was adorned with weird stories about his telepathic communication with aliens, mysterious secret weapons he had supposedly invented & similar poppycock.

    On the other hand, backlash ensued among real electrical engineers who were irritated by such balderdash & relegated him to just one among many figures in the field of electrical engineering.

    To conclude:

    * he was not a scientist, but an inventor
    * he is even not the most influential figure in electrical engineering, this place rightfully belonging to Charles Steinmetz
    * but his four great inventions definitely place him in the company of 30–40 greatest inventors of all times, so it is sad to see his posthumous reputation going up and down so wildly
    * he was, in many senses, a modern inventor, i.e. scientifically educated, while most other inventors were just empiricists without any theoretical knowledge.

    So, my opinion would be: he is wildly overrated in popular culture; he is somehow underrated among his (modern) colleagues.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    @Bardon Kaldian

    "while most other inventors were just empiricists without any theoretical knowledge." That was Tesla's opinion of Edison, whose trial and error, non-theoretical methods Tesla thought foolish.

  26. On the other hand, if you had to guess who’d come in last, choosing the country with the world’s highest birthrate sounds about right.

    And vice versa, I’m guessing, with S. Korea pretty high up there, for example. Hello, Dysgenics. Goodbye, First World. Thanks, Welfare State, Feminism, and political cuckoldry!

    Then again, what exactly are those in the “high learning” countries learning? The 3 R’s: Racial guilt and Radical sexual Roles?

  27. @J.Ross
    OT -- an Irish anon has:
    [Indian] Doctor, a cardiologist no less, pushed the vaccines on tel[evision]. His ultra fit dad died from a SURPRISE! heart attack, and now he says the va[ccines] must be halted since they "cause unprecedented harm."

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1574986541302104065

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    Vaccine Damage Payment Scheme: Covid-19
    – in Westminster Hall at 4:26 pm on 6th September 2022.

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2022-09-06c.61.0&s=speaker%3A11791#g76.0

    “My constituent Jamie Scott was a fit 44-year-old when he had his AstraZeneca covid-19 vaccination on 23 April 2021. He woke with a headache on 3 May, then experienced vomiting and impaired speech. He was taken to hospital by ambulance where he had multiple operations and was in a coma for more than four weeks. His wife Kate was told by doctors that he may not survive and that if he did, he would likely be severely disabled. The couple have two young children. Jamie was diagnosed with a cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, or CVST, and subsequently with vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia, or VITT. I am pleased to say that he has recovered somewhat, but he is still unable to return to the life he led before. His consultant’s opinion in December was very clear:

    “It is very highly likely that the vaccine was responsible for the development of his symptoms (with no other possible explanation for the development of the symptoms).”

    Jamie and Kate Scott are here today listening to me describe what happened to them, because their lives were changed utterly last year when Jamie did as the Government urged him to do and received a vaccination. I should make it clear that neither I nor they are making any argument against vaccination, but we are arguing that the relatively tiny number of people who are injured by state-advocated vaccination should be properly looked after.”

  28. @Steve Sailer
    @Redneck farmer

    One Hindu Nationalist reader of the past had complex theories about IQ, but his theory that Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @YetAnotherAnon, @Pixo

    Caste complicates things in India a lot – in one sense “India” is made up of many peoples with, at least until VERY recently, no interbreeding. Plus groups like Jains who are very bright.

    I doubt the wealthy Indians paying £30 for a meal in our marble-clad hotel did much breeding with the people living under tarpaulins a couple of hundred yards away.

  29. Doesn’t mass 3rd World immigration make national bell curves asymmetrical in the West? Likewise, countries on the lower half two thirds keep losing much of the right tail of theirs, so bright schoolkids ultimately don’t contribute to their native economies. How many bell curves can you overlay before it becomes unintelligible?

    The Highlands in 1500 might have been affected by fetal alcohol syndrome.

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    @Ralph L

    When you "overlay many bell curves" you just get another approximate bell curve. The mean and variance are a mixture of the component distribution values.

  30. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    Albania is still a nominally Islamic country, although communism seems to have done away with most if not all of the genuine adherence.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @The Alarmist

    But their family relations are wierd, they still have blood feuds.

  31. @Graham
    Pro tip: read TakiMag on an iPhone and turn Reader Mode on. It's intolerable otherwise because of ads, including animations and popups.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Ads? Pop-ups? Are you using a good browser?

    • Replies: @Graham
    @J.Ross

    It detects ad blockers and fuzzes the text out.

  32. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m shocked at the low rankings of Israel and Armenia.
    These facts alone seriously undermine my credence of the efficacy of this particular series of tests.
    It is patently obvious that the Ashkenazim and the Armenians are amongst the most naturally intellectually gifted of all the ethnicities on this planet.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @Anonymous

    No, the Ashkenazim and the Armenians scored high, but out of habit haggled with the test-takers to get the scores down.

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Anonymous

    La Griffe explained that same point to me in an email exchange I had with him a while back.

    Basically, you have to adjust for all the low IQ Arabs (Mostly Muslims) in Israel. He assumed that they had the same IQ as their genetically indistinguishable cousins across the border (IQ 70, IIRC- this was 20-some odd years ago). Some large percentage of the population.

    Ashkenazi were 122 or 115- the weighted average was in the mid to low 90's.

    Basically, having large amounts of low-IQ people in your data set (and country) has negative consequences in intelligence of the country and GDP per capita.

    Who'd a thunk it?

    , @Ian Smith
    @Anonymous

    Israel is 20% Arab.

    , @Nachum
    @Anonymous

    Less than half (I think about 49%) of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazim. Throw in 20% Arab and you have less than 40% Ashkenazi. Which is still a higher percentage of Ashkenazim than any other country, of course, so maybe it's still weird, but not as weird as it would be for a 100% Ashkenazi country.

  33. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    The Caribbean islands are all different. T&T has a high-IQ Indian population, reasonably honest government, plus some of the same oil deposit which made Venezuela rich (magic dirt indeed), so they can afford projects & education. They’re pretty much the best one. At the opposite end is Haiti, and in the middle are places like Bermuda or Barbados. Even several of the USVI you never hear about have pretty good government and low crime.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @J.Ross

    Bermuda is not in the Caribbean.

  34. No. They don’t ‘get on well’.

    The entire nation is seething pot of ethnic hatred between the Indians and blacks.
    The blacks are responsible for many attacks and assaults on the Indians. The Indians are not shy of replying in kind.
    It is a nasty, dangerous unpleasant place.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    In 2000 when I was 43, I was shooting baskets at a YMCA in a famous blue county when the gym director suggested I play a one-on-one game against a 20-year old guy who was about 6’4” and coal-black. He introduced him to me as a member of the Trinidad & Tobago Olympic team. The kid couldn’t play a lick, and I won 11-2.

  35. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    Albania is still a nominally Islamic country, although communism seems to have done away with most if not all of the genuine adherence.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @The Alarmist

    Albania was a far better country when Enver Hoxha was calling the shots.

  36. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    Same is true for Nigerians in America. Only the smartest make it here, so you might be tricked into thinking it’s a smart country because the sample is very unrepresentative. What’s worse is all the Nigerians in America are absolutely miserable people because they felt like (and were) an Albert Einstein intellectual God with their 115 IQ in the home country because they lived among among hundreds of millions of people who are effectively mentally retarded.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Batman


    Nigerians in America. Only the smartest make it here, so you might be tricked into thinking it’s a smart country
     
    Nah, no danger of that in my case.
  37. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    It's not unreasonable for India to bail out of PISA until it's over the effects of covid on schooling. I hope India has been getting better at schooling its children since 2009.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Craken

    If other developing countries are going ahead with PISA 2022 then the comparison with other developing countries will be fair. It shows India doesn’t want to face the results.

  38. Italy’s new leader gives an off-the-cuff speech that’s more intelligent than any US President has given in the past 50 years, and only starts reading to provide a Chesterson quote accurately.

    https://twitter.com/coloradotravis/status/1574376290060496897

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  39. “Yet for most of Western Europe, whether one country outscores another tends to depend more upon the quantity and quality of its immigrants than upon slight differences between the natives.”

    Take a look-see at Israel’s position on the bar graph. If we define Israel’s native population as “God’s chosen people”, i.e. Jews, which are not my words or presumption by the way, perhaps a perishable thought or two could occur regarding the Jewish elite’s obsession with importing the worlds detritus to the US.

  40. @Peter Akuleyev
    The Phillipines is kind of a tragedy. The East Asian country that can't. On paper they have a lot of advantages - English speaking population available to work for low wages, proximity to dynamic markets, American legal traditions, etc. I've met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is. A genetic ceiling makes a lot of sense. Indonesia (395) and other countries with a lot of Malayo-Polynesian populations seem to also hit this ceiling.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Thelma Ringbaum

    I’ve met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is.

    I think it’s because these businessmen have deluded themselves into thinking the Philippines are a fancy Asian country when the reality is that they are a jungle Asian country.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Blame Avi Halaby!

  41. @Steve Sailer
    @Redneck farmer

    One Hindu Nationalist reader of the past had complex theories about IQ, but his theory that Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @YetAnotherAnon, @Pixo

    “ Islam knocked 5 points off average IQ seemed pretty plausible.”

    Or course it does, but probably more than 5 points in the worst cases.

    There’s two levels of Islamic degradation of the human brain. The first is full conversion, like Albania and Pakistan.

    Then, less bad than full Islamification, is conquest and temporary dhimmitude. Look at Spain v France, Greece v Italy. The period of Islamic occupation sapped the IQ of the Spanish and Greeks compared to their non-occupied neighbors.

    North Africa during Roman times and even the dark ages was just as rich and cultured as Europe, and what is now Turkey, Greece, and the Levant were the richest and most literate corners of the world. Islam raped and pillaged them into permanent backwaters.

  42. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    Hindu migration is ultra selective and their kids regress to the mean far worse than any other US population. They nonetheless get shunted off to college where their downward mobility makes them resentful of White America.

    NE Asian migration is much preferable than S Asian for this reason. Ultimately becoming a little more like S Korea or Japan has its upsides. If India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have any redeeming qualities I am unaware of them.

    • Replies: @sb
    @Pixo

    Much the same in Australia .
    I'd say that NE Asians often wish to become (more)Western whereas South Asians just want to be rich.

  43. On the other hand, if you had to guess who’d come in last, choosing the country with the world’s highest birthrate sounds about right.

    Not just family size but also the generation time matter in birth rates. If two populations are tending to have 2.4 children per woman per lifetime but one of them has the average age at which a woman has a child at 25 and another at 30, that will over time have a big impact on the rate of population growth.

    Modern ever higher demands of longer and longer education time to final employment level tend to frustrate family formation (And by waiting longer tend to make it even harder in the modern atomised world where outside school and work you don’t tend to meet a lot of people organically or go to parties much, online dating has become normal and destigmatised because of this) and push it off until a person feels ‘settled’ and in their final employment and salary stage.

  44. The mere existence of this data causes outrage among the growing numbers of science denialists, who are increasingly calling for banning all scientific research touching upon differences in cognitive capabilities among populations.

    FIFY Steve!

  45. @Foreign Expert
    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Jonathan Mason, @Graham, @Erik Sieven

    The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    Agreed, it could be interesting, only I’d note that Filipinos are often tri-lingual from childhood, and most African countries speak their colonial language along with various tribal tongues.

    That said, I’m still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @HammerJack


    That said, I’m still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..
     
    English is based on Old Germanic languages plus a lot of Latin (now Romance) language(s).

    I'm not a linguist but I understand that the grammar is somewhat non standard but the structure of the grammar is pretty flexible. English easily adopts useful idioms and words from other languages and it doesn't have to be spoken correctly or exactly.

    It is not tonal like many Asian ones.

    Also, it is the modern language of science and trade (and computers) and is so widespread that teaching it is a valuable asset for nearly everyone. Also, many countries have local dialects or tribal languages and variations whereas English can be learned by all and these differences don't matter as much.

    In the ancient world, Greek and Latin were similar in dominance. Don't know about India/China but probably Hindi/Urdu and Mandarin were pretty dominant. China more varied. Mongolian spread for a while but Arabic became much more widespread despite invasions.

    Spanish is pretty popular and can be easily incorporated, usually, into English.

    A lot of small country languages will eventually die out. Latvian anyone?

    Replies: @Graham

  46. I’ve never seen an IQ denialist provide a clear answer about the issue of height:

    “All the variation of every trait is caused by poverty oppression,” they say.

    OK, but Japanese and Netherlanders are very different in average height. How can there be no genetic component to average height difference in these two wealthy countries? Why can’t IQ be similar to that?

    Crickets.

  47. Last on the List

    The name at the bottom goes unheard;
    a racial slur must remain unslurred.
    The reason why one must
    not mention the dumbest?
    Its name is too much like the n-word.

  48. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    > I wonder if those wonder kids [first-generation Indian-Americans] will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    It’s likely that they will revert to their group’s mean, e.g. the mean of the population comprised of their recent ancestors. The mean for Brahmin-descended kids will be different from the mean for Dalit-descended kids.

    • Agree: Inverness
  49. Steve makes mention of Ghana’s education system, which is obviously not working. Shoving kids into a classroom and having an adult in front droning on is no guarantee of learning.

    From my own personal experience, it’s not as if the education systems in East Asia are that much better. A lot of teaching is still essentially the traditional ‘show and tell’, expecting the students to get it after a few repetitions, which, to their credit, most manage to do so, but the thinking steps are not made explicit, and many students never quite manage to master thinking skills.

    So nowadays I teach by asking the students whenever we approach a problem, “what’s your first step? why is that your first step? What data did you use?” etc etc etc. The students hate it initially, because it’s so contrary to how they had been taught for the majority of their school lives, but they always realised eventually how important this process is. But out of my whole department, I’m the only one who teaches this way (I get great results, usually value-added considering their predicted grades).

    And this is in Singapore, the highest scoring nation! I think there’s still a lot of unrealised gains for the taking, IQ aside.

  50. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    It's not unreasonable for India to bail out of PISA until it's over the effects of covid on schooling. I hope India has been getting better at schooling its children since 2009.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Craken

    A few years ago I came across an estimate that 45% of India’s children were malnourished. That seemed shockingly high, much higher than the average in black Africa, so I figured it was a case of some NGOs exaggerating the problem to raise its profile & their funding. When I did some further reading, it turned out that 45% was a good approximation of the number of children who were measurably, physically stunted. A nation with a declining birth rate and which is doubling its per capita income every 12 years certainly *could* do better. I wonder how much of this particular failure arises from the caste system. In any case, both issues, caste and undernourishment, likely depress average IQ. Additionally, southern India has a 20% rate of cousin marriage–the area of prevalence corresponding to the area covered by the Dravidian language family. Strangely, this area also has an unusually low birth rate. The highest birth rates are generally found in areas of high outbreeding (95%+), like north-central India.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @Craken

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Hypnotoad666, @epebble, @Anon

  51. Apparently, the dumbest countries aren’t dumb enough to be convinced that contracepting and aborting themselves out of existence is a spiffy idea. You don’t suppose the “smart” countries got that dumb idea from all that schooling they get?

    • Agree: kaganovitch
  52. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American* the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    However nearby Guyana has the same population mix and is ranked very low. Trinidad and Tobago has been oil rich for decades, but Guyana has only just started to get oil revenues from a major offshore oilfield developed by Exxon. They (locals in Guyana) are talking about Guyana becoming the Dubai of South America.

    Or will Guyana become The Beverly Hillbilly of South America? Time will tell.

    * Actually English-and-Creole-speaking West Indian black. I don’t know where you get the idea that they are African Americans. South-American Africans?

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Jonathan Mason

    However nearby Guyana has the same population mix and is ranked very low.

    Guyana has long sent many immigrants to the US, so there might be a brain-drain factor.

  53. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area…

    A lot of Indian immigrants are medical doctors who are married to female doctors, and their children usually do well at school as their parents help them with sciences and make them turn off the TV.

  54. @Foreign Expert
    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Jonathan Mason, @Graham, @Erik Sieven

    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    The Dutch and the Scandinavians would probably come at the top of the table. The United States would surely be at the very bottom followed by French Canadians.

  55. I do enjoy the satire that Steve sneaks into these pieces.

    Even in generally honest America,

    Keep em coming!

  56. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    African-Americans in Trinidad?

    When I was there I saw about two, both of them tourists.

  57. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    T & T had the benefit of being in the British Empire. This is possibly the principal reason it is doing reasonably well now.

  58. Would be interesting to compare scores over time for Western nations against percentage of the population that is foreign born.

  59. ‘such and such thing lowers performance on intelligence tests’

    yes, but it keeps them reproducing. so you have to ask yourself, which is more important to you. being a little smarter, at the expense of being the last person in your family ever. or being a little less smart, at the benefit of being one person of many in a long, unbroken chain of humans.

    since dumb people will inherit the earth, it’s a judgment call. note that i don’t subscribe to the breeder hypothesis – while probably a real effect, it’s too small to make a difference. at some point there probably will be a cohort of high intelligence humans who are very horny as well. swamped by billions of dumb third worlders who have just as much sex.

  60. Jason Riley had a column in today’s Wall Street Journal about how The College Board is introducing a new AP test. You have already guessed the subject matter – – black studies.

    I once read that Chinese-American kids are inclined to attend after-school tutoring programs because, in part, the schools are neighborhood-close. I wonder if this co-factor is operative in Singapore, etc.

    A wealth of research shows that studying is more effective if done in different places. (“scaffolding”) Imagine how well the Singapore kid would do if he didn’t live in such a small apartment.

    My most effective teacher in high school was world history: “Copy the blackboards!” Every morning the teacher arrived early, and totally filled the four blackboards. It took the students in each class half the period to copy these longhand into notebooks. The second half of the period consisted of discussion…themes and extrapolations from what they had just copied. His belief was that before you could have discussions, you had to have a knowledge base to discuss.

  61. If we’re looking at the relationship between test scores and per capita income, then the story of these results is Vietnam.

    The Asian country scored as high as any of the Scandinavian countries and yet its per capita income ranks #140 for nominal and #108 for PPP – that’s lower than Brazil, Indonesia, South Africa, Ukraine, Peru and even Egypt for both categories.

    It’s possible that Vietnam is gaming the results by limiting the number and range of Vietnamese children who are tested, just as China has done for certain international tests. I haven’t looked closely at the study, so I can’t be sure. But even so, it’s impressive.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Pincher Martin

    Vietnam is gaming the results

    What for? Is there a prize for coming first on list?

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

  62. This is meaningless. You simply don’t compare, say, India and Palau.

    The entire stuff is a joke.

    Other than stereotypes we all know: east Asians are the success in robotic existence & Africans are a cognitive shithole.

  63. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I think Tesla is both overrated & underrated.

    He is overrated because some New Agey lunatics started, somewhere in the 1980s, to depict him as someone almost super-human in mental capabilities. This was adorned with weird stories about his telepathic communication with aliens, mysterious secret weapons he had supposedly invented & similar poppycock.

    On the other hand, backlash ensued among real electrical engineers who were irritated by such balderdash & relegated him to just one among many figures in the field of electrical engineering.

    To conclude:

    * he was not a scientist, but an inventor
    * he is even not the most influential figure in electrical engineering, this place rightfully belonging to Charles Steinmetz
    * but his four great inventions definitely place him in the company of 30–40 greatest inventors of all times, so it is sad to see his posthumous reputation going up and down so wildly
    * he was, in many senses, a modern inventor, i.e. scientifically educated, while most other inventors were just empiricists without any theoretical knowledge.

    So, my opinion would be: he is wildly overrated in popular culture; he is somehow underrated among his (modern) colleagues.

    Replies: @Dutch Boy

    “while most other inventors were just empiricists without any theoretical knowledge.” That was Tesla’s opinion of Edison, whose trial and error, non-theoretical methods Tesla thought foolish.

  64. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    My now long experience with Indians in the SF Bay area is that the kids are more, not less, impressive than the parents.

    • Replies: @ForeverCARealist
    @International Jew

    That was my experience too. The parents were smart, but were held back by India's disgusting (the word every Westerner who's been to India uses) civilization.
    The kids got the benefit of good genes and Western hygiene.
    I didn't care for the tribalism, however.

  65. @Ralph L
    Doesn't mass 3rd World immigration make national bell curves asymmetrical in the West? Likewise, countries on the lower half two thirds keep losing much of the right tail of theirs, so bright schoolkids ultimately don't contribute to their native economies. How many bell curves can you overlay before it becomes unintelligible?

    The Highlands in 1500 might have been affected by fetal alcohol syndrome.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson

    When you “overlay many bell curves” you just get another approximate bell curve. The mean and variance are a mixture of the component distribution values.

  66. @Anonymous
    I'm shocked at the low rankings of Israel and Armenia.
    These facts alone seriously undermine my credence of the efficacy of this particular series of tests.
    It is patently obvious that the Ashkenazim and the Armenians are amongst the most naturally intellectually gifted of all the ethnicities on this planet.

    Replies: @njguy73, @CharleszMartel, @Ian Smith, @Nachum

    No, the Ashkenazim and the Armenians scored high, but out of habit haggled with the test-takers to get the scores down.

    • LOL: kaganovitch
  67. What a piece of garbage.
    Here’s Singapore.
    Ethnic groups (2020)[1]
    74.3% Chinese
    13.5% Malay
    9.0% Indian
    3.2% Others

    In other words, it’s less than 3/4 trs Chinese and has lots of lower IQ Malays and and Indians. Yet, it scores higher than Japan, a very homogeneous East Asian nation. The conclusion is obvious: the Singapore Government are fiddling the scores to their own advantage. Others are doing the same.

    To proponents of East Asian IQ superiority, the results must be perplexing. China has a score of 441, below Kenya and Gabon. Shurely shome mishtake !

  68. As expected, Poland scored higher than the U.K. and Germany,
    and much higher than the U.S. and France.Poor performances
    by Russia, Italy, and Israel have been noted.

    Poland and Japan are becoming soulmates, located on
    the western and eastern flanks of Russia. Japan is a very high
    performer in Asia and Poland is a very high performer in
    Europe, although with a much smaller population and
    extremely hostile neighbors, Poland obviously could not be
    expected to achieve as much as Japan. However, being a nation
    of storytellers, Poland on a per capita basis has produced more
    Nobel laureates in literature than either the U.S. or Russia.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anon 2

    Poland, unlike the UK, hasn't got a large number of "minority" children.

  69. @Jonathan Mason
    @Daniel H


    We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American* the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.
     

    However nearby Guyana has the same population mix and is ranked very low. Trinidad and Tobago has been oil rich for decades, but Guyana has only just started to get oil revenues from a major offshore oilfield developed by Exxon. They (locals in Guyana) are talking about Guyana becoming the Dubai of South America.

    Or will Guyana become The Beverly Hillbilly of South America? Time will tell.

    * Actually English-and-Creole-speaking West Indian black. I don't know where you get the idea that they are African Americans. South-American Africans?

    Replies: @prosa123

    However nearby Guyana has the same population mix and is ranked very low.

    Guyana has long sent many immigrants to the US, so there might be a brain-drain factor.

  70. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Peter Akuleyev


    I’ve met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is.
     
    I think it's because these businessmen have deluded themselves into thinking the Philippines are a fancy Asian country when the reality is that they are a jungle Asian country.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Blame Avi Halaby!

  71. @International Jew
    @Hannah Katz


    I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.
     
    My now long experience with Indians in the SF Bay area is that the kids are more, not less, impressive than the parents.

    Replies: @ForeverCARealist

    That was my experience too. The parents were smart, but were held back by India’s disgusting (the word every Westerner who’s been to India uses) civilization.
    The kids got the benefit of good genes and Western hygiene.
    I didn’t care for the tribalism, however.

  72. We are not a serious country.

    Singapore’s prime minister was Senior Wrangler at Cambridge.

    People who were NOT Senior Wrangler:
    Those who have achieved second place, known as Second Wranglers, include Alfred Marshall, James Clerk Maxwell, J. J. Thomson, Lord Kelvin, William Clifford, and William Whewell.

    Those who have finished between third and 12th include Archibald Hill, Karl Pearson and William Henry Bragg (third), George Green, G. H. Hardy, and Alfred North Whitehead (fourth), Adam Sedgwick (fifth), John Venn (sixth), Bertrand Russell, Nevil Maskelyne and Sir James Timmins Chance (seventh), Thomas Malthus (ninth), and John Maynard Keynes and William Henry Fox Talbot (12th).

    Imagine one of our trust fund political scions achieving that. Hunter Biden? Malia Obama? Chelsea Clinton? George P. Bush? I quite literally cannot imagine it.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Thanks: Rob McX
  73. @Pincher Martin
    If we're looking at the relationship between test scores and per capita income, then the story of these results is Vietnam.

    The Asian country scored as high as any of the Scandinavian countries and yet its per capita income ranks #140 for nominal and #108 for PPP - that's lower than Brazil, Indonesia, South Africa, Ukraine, Peru and even Egypt for both categories.

    It's possible that Vietnam is gaming the results by limiting the number and range of Vietnamese children who are tested, just as China has done for certain international tests. I haven't looked closely at the study, so I can't be sure. But even so, it's impressive.

    Replies: @epebble

    Vietnam is gaming the results

    What for? Is there a prize for coming first on list?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @epebble

    No, but prestige to some of these countries matters a great deal. Government authorities in communist countries want to be considered competent, since advancement in the party is often determined by the image of success more than by actual success.

    But I want to restate that I don't actually know that Vietnam is either cheating or gaming the results. I just raised it as a possibility.

  74. @Anonymous
    I'm shocked at the low rankings of Israel and Armenia.
    These facts alone seriously undermine my credence of the efficacy of this particular series of tests.
    It is patently obvious that the Ashkenazim and the Armenians are amongst the most naturally intellectually gifted of all the ethnicities on this planet.

    Replies: @njguy73, @CharleszMartel, @Ian Smith, @Nachum

    La Griffe explained that same point to me in an email exchange I had with him a while back.

    Basically, you have to adjust for all the low IQ Arabs (Mostly Muslims) in Israel. He assumed that they had the same IQ as their genetically indistinguishable cousins across the border (IQ 70, IIRC- this was 20-some odd years ago). Some large percentage of the population.

    Ashkenazi were 122 or 115- the weighted average was in the mid to low 90’s.

    Basically, having large amounts of low-IQ people in your data set (and country) has negative consequences in intelligence of the country and GDP per capita.

    Who’d a thunk it?

  75. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    Unfortunately, reality is a bit more mixed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Trinidad_and_Tobago

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
  76. @Anonymous
    I'm shocked at the low rankings of Israel and Armenia.
    These facts alone seriously undermine my credence of the efficacy of this particular series of tests.
    It is patently obvious that the Ashkenazim and the Armenians are amongst the most naturally intellectually gifted of all the ethnicities on this planet.

    Replies: @njguy73, @CharleszMartel, @Ian Smith, @Nachum

    Israel is 20% Arab.

  77. @Patrick1982
    Ghana's extremely poor ranking is a bit of a surprise, given that it's often held up as one of the more successful sub-Saharan nations and seems to be a bit less dysfunctional than its neighbors.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad

    Steve’s mention of Ghana …

    The authors in Nature draw an important distinction between “schooling” and “learning.” For example, they commend Ghana, which is often considered to have the best government in West Africa, for extending primary and even secondary education to almost all children. Yet, so far, little learning seems to be going on in the classrooms of Ghana, which ranks second-to-last in test performance.

    … is evidence for what I think: A bunch of these African scores are actually way higher than their capability. I believe they are unrepresentative samples.

    For instance eSwantini (Swaziland). Economically it’s exceptionally well to do for Africa, heavily tied to the much richer South Africa. But realistically mostly it’s a dump–a big Swazi sugar plantation, with Swazis doing stoop labor. No way in hell the average Swazi kid is actually performing within a standard deviation of the average American kid–at the level of Bulgarian or Uruguayan. No, a bunch of them simply aren’t regularly in school, or didn’t sit for whatever test.

    Ghana–by being well enough run to actually have almost all kids in school–is actually much more representative of what an average African–or at least West African–nation is capable of with the sort of normal schooling a well run but normal West African country could do.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    Kenya 455
    China 441

    Looking forward to the Ken Burns special on the Old Kenyan Space Program.

  78. @Craken
    @Steve Sailer

    A few years ago I came across an estimate that 45% of India's children were malnourished. That seemed shockingly high, much higher than the average in black Africa, so I figured it was a case of some NGOs exaggerating the problem to raise its profile & their funding. When I did some further reading, it turned out that 45% was a good approximation of the number of children who were measurably, physically stunted. A nation with a declining birth rate and which is doubling its per capita income every 12 years certainly *could* do better. I wonder how much of this particular failure arises from the caste system. In any case, both issues, caste and undernourishment, likely depress average IQ. Additionally, southern India has a 20% rate of cousin marriage--the area of prevalence corresponding to the area covered by the Dravidian language family. Strangely, this area also has an unusually low birth rate. The highest birth rates are generally found in areas of high outbreeding (95%+), like north-central India.

    Replies: @Danindc

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Danindc

    They're smart enough. The snakes in India are even smarter

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Danindc


    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

     

    Agreed. They make Pentecostals look like Rhodes Scholars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGRpwOb4s4E
    , @epebble
    @Danindc

    I don't know how to parse that logic. People die when they are around dangerous animals. 100,000 Americans die from ingesting poison every year. Are we dumb?

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-deaths-overwhelm-us-morgues

    Replies: @Danindc

    , @Anon
    @Danindc

    I’d like to see the gender breakdown on that. It could be a toilet issue. They don’t have indoor toilets, so they go outside. The women cannot be seen “doing it”, so they have to go at night, walking far from the small villages, and one of the issues is they get bitten by snakes.

    There is a Brahmin activist —forget his name— that has been doing a lot of work about the toilets and the plight of widows. Don’t have time to check, but he (toilet activist) might be featured in this video:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xWQFj7kmxRQ

  79. @Foreign Expert
    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Jonathan Mason, @Graham, @Erik Sieven

    Many people in west-central Africa speak four or five languages as a matter of course, particularly in the so-called fragmentation zone, where many small language communities overlap. Language is one of the few mental faculties facilitated by a particular part of the brain, which means that it is less correlated with general intelligence than other capabilities like mathematical skill.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Graham

    Having 10,000 word vocabularies in 4 languages is impresssive, but much less impressive than having a 60,000 word vocabulary in one language (the floor for Shakespeare for example). The latter requires a much higher IQ.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    , @Pincher Martin
    @Graham

    I've met several multilingual Africans and only one would I describe as above average in smarts. He was a Ghanian muslim who spoke excellent English, excellent Mandarin Chinese, excellent Arabic, some French, as well as a couple of African dialects. I met him in Taiwan, where his Mandarin was already good enough that he would soon graduate from a Taiwanese university, and his Arabic was good enough that he would immediately after his graduation be hired by the unofficial equivalent of the Saudi embassy to represent them on the island.

    But most Africans' multilingual abilities include several pidgin languages and they do not have high verbal ability in any of them, including the language of their parents. Their multilingual ability, therefore, is less about general intelligence than it is a situational response by individuals living in areas where multiple languages are used in the marketplace and by their neighbors.

  80. @J.Ross
    @Graham

    Ads? Pop-ups? Are you using a good browser?

    Replies: @Graham

    It detects ad blockers and fuzzes the text out.

  81. @anonymous
    Is there a direct link to the ranking of all 176 countries? I can't find it on the World Bank website.

    Among the giga-countries, India’s 399 is based on India trying out the PISA in one northern and one southern state in 2009, bombing it, getting depressed, and never taking an international test again.
     
    India planned to return to PISA by testing students in Chandigarh, a special city serving as the joint capital for two states with a GDP per capita similar to the national capital. The students in 2000 were being trained to do well ("Chandigarh schools to now train new students for Pisa").

    At the last minute, India pulled out of PISA 2022 in July citing the pandemic effect on schooling.

    India, which is not a member of the OECD, had last participated in Pisa in 2009, when it had ranked 73rd among 74 countries, above only Kyrgyzstan.

    Minister of state for education Annapurna Devi told the Lok Sabha on Monday that the government had taken a relook at its decision to participate in Pisa 2022 because of the impact of Covid-induced school closure on learning levels.

    https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/central-government-cries-off-global-test-for-teenagers/cid/1875585
     
    Clearly, Indians are sensitive about this test. I think deep down they understand the test could reveal their country doesn't have the potential to become developed within the timespan of the 21st century. However, there is no country yearning more to become a superpower than India.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Muggles

    India is huge but has a well deserved reputation for cheating on all kinds of tests.

    It is endemic there.

    However with many professional or Western educational type of tests I suspect they are monitoring the testing pretty thoroughly. Or have to do that to get reciprocal recognition.

    The fact that nations can game this system (in these essays) is a major flaw. Small poor countries can test only the best schools. Likewise China and other places can test only in regions where affluence is high and schools are better. Or where less advanced ethnics/tribes are not schooled much if at all, so are deliberately excluded.

    Only a truly randomly chosen population to be tested would be very accurate. With outside test protocols administered by non locals.

    In the US you have a lot of average students, some very good, and many from inner cities can’t read at all, or barely. English or anything else. Math, forget it.

    The only real ‘systemic racism’ practiced in the US is in inner city/big city school districts where subpar barely literate teachers process herds of semi literate and/or lazy/stupid students through to get meaningless degrees showing that they somehow “graduated.” Though many don’t even do that well.

    You have to discount the majority non White school results by about 15-25% or more. Unless they are mainly non jungle Asians with employed parents.

    A simple test would be to ask students to read an entire page from Charles Dickens or Mark Twain. If they can understand the words and get most of the pronunciation right. How many could read an entire full page without running out of the room, crying?

  82. anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    No. They don't 'get on well'.

    The entire nation is seething pot of ethnic hatred between the Indians and blacks.
    The blacks are responsible for many attacks and assaults on the Indians. The Indians are not shy of replying in kind.
    It is a nasty, dangerous unpleasant place.

    Replies: @anonymous

    In 2000 when I was 43, I was shooting baskets at a YMCA in a famous blue county when the gym director suggested I play a one-on-one game against a 20-year old guy who was about 6’4” and coal-black. He introduced him to me as a member of the Trinidad & Tobago Olympic team. The kid couldn’t play a lick, and I won 11-2.

  83. @HammerJack
    @Foreign Expert


    The Philippines and some African countries, for example.
     
    Agreed, it could be interesting, only I'd note that Filipinos are often tri-lingual from childhood, and most African countries speak their colonial language along with various tribal tongues.

    That said, I'm still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..

    Replies: @Muggles

    That said, I’m still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..

    English is based on Old Germanic languages plus a lot of Latin (now Romance) language(s).

    I’m not a linguist but I understand that the grammar is somewhat non standard but the structure of the grammar is pretty flexible. English easily adopts useful idioms and words from other languages and it doesn’t have to be spoken correctly or exactly.

    It is not tonal like many Asian ones.

    Also, it is the modern language of science and trade (and computers) and is so widespread that teaching it is a valuable asset for nearly everyone. Also, many countries have local dialects or tribal languages and variations whereas English can be learned by all and these differences don’t matter as much.

    In the ancient world, Greek and Latin were similar in dominance. Don’t know about India/China but probably Hindi/Urdu and Mandarin were pretty dominant. China more varied. Mongolian spread for a while but Arabic became much more widespread despite invasions.

    Spanish is pretty popular and can be easily incorporated, usually, into English.

    A lot of small country languages will eventually die out. Latvian anyone?

    • Replies: @Graham
    @Muggles

    A couple of points from an ex-linguist: complexity in a language tends to pop up in one place if it’s low in another. Yes, English is inflexionally simple, but has thousands of phrasal verb constructions (like ‘put up with’, tolerate, versus ‘put up’, accommodate); and when to use the word ‘the’ is far more complicated than we native speakers realise (which is one reason why the English of Russians, who don’t have ‘the’ in their language, can sound odd); and there are many other subtleties that make English hard to learn for speakers of non-Germanic tongues.

    Secondly, even if language complexity does vary greatly (not counting creoles, which tend to be simpler), which I doubt, we have to account for Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament, becoming the lingua Franca of the eastern Roman Empire. It is inflexionally very complicated, and almost every verb is irregular: ‘phero’, I carry, ‘oiso’, I shall carry, ‘enenka’, I carried.

  84. @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Probably true. Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Replies: @Batman, @Pixo, @ic1000, @Jonathan Mason, @International Jew, @AnotherDad

    Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.

    Everyone here at Steve’s joint–anyone HBD aware–should have firm understand that India is simply not a one-people nation like say Sweden (was) or Japan or even mostly a big sprawling ethnic group like China, or even a tribal conglomeration like Nigeria.

    There simply is no such thing as an “Indian” like there is a “Swede” or “Han Chinese”.

    Indian had something like 40,000 distinct endogamous groups. (You can’t even come up with a credible estimate.) My best friend from grad school and his wife are both middle-class Marathi Brahmins, from the same area … but slightly different sorts of Marathi Brahmins who would not have been an acceptable match (don’t ask me) even a generation earlier.

    In Europe, even under feudalism there were … two castes. Nobility and commoners. Our priestly class–unlike their Brahmins–didn’t even (normally) breed. And the nobility was constantly refreshed by nobility snapping up pretty girls from the gentry. And gentry being elevated to nobility by this or that service. Basically, even under feudalism European genes were highly mobile.

    To conceptualize India, think of something more like having 40,000 different groups like the Jews–each insisting on keeping themselves tribally distinct, even from other very similar peoples in the same social class in the same area. But without the Jews’ religious hostility–instead everyone on the same page, religiously but the religion supporting/justifying the tribal endogamy. And then at the bottom an untouchable group everyone else thinks is beneath them to breed with like blacks in America–except even more strict ideas about purity and contamination.

    Indians in America have some variance (ex. the Sikhs). But most of the ones you find in the coastal and tech heavy areas of the US in neighborhoods with “good schools” are super-heavily selected–often US grad school–and from small high-caste groups, most of them Brahmins.

    And correspondingly their “regression to the mean” is only plausibly toward the mean of their parent’s caste group. And even that is mitigated by the screen of who comes here and who they marry. These people have essentially nothing to do with whatever the nominal mean “Indian IQ” is.

    • Thanks: BosTex
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @AnotherDad

    Or: India is proof that diversity is a problem.

  85. The Z-man’s take on events under the Baltic crystalize matters nicely.
    https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=28354

  86. Why is China ranked so low? Does that make sense?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @JohnnyWalker123

    No, but rural poverty is still a real thing in China, even decades after the country began its economic modernization. So I wouldn't be surprised if China was in the high 400s, much like Russia and Belarus.

  87. @Graham
    @Foreign Expert

    Many people in west-central Africa speak four or five languages as a matter of course, particularly in the so-called fragmentation zone, where many small language communities overlap. Language is one of the few mental faculties facilitated by a particular part of the brain, which means that it is less correlated with general intelligence than other capabilities like mathematical skill.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Pincher Martin

    Having 10,000 word vocabularies in 4 languages is impresssive, but much less impressive than having a 60,000 word vocabulary in one language (the floor for Shakespeare for example). The latter requires a much higher IQ.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Peter Akuleyev

    True. But I doubt many of these multilingual Africans know even ten thousand words in multiple languages. Most of them just know the basic grammar and perhaps a couple thousand words (if that) in languages related to their own. Then they might know one or possibly two European tongues to a lesser degree.

  88. @Graham
    @Foreign Expert

    Many people in west-central Africa speak four or five languages as a matter of course, particularly in the so-called fragmentation zone, where many small language communities overlap. Language is one of the few mental faculties facilitated by a particular part of the brain, which means that it is less correlated with general intelligence than other capabilities like mathematical skill.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Pincher Martin

    I’ve met several multilingual Africans and only one would I describe as above average in smarts. He was a Ghanian muslim who spoke excellent English, excellent Mandarin Chinese, excellent Arabic, some French, as well as a couple of African dialects. I met him in Taiwan, where his Mandarin was already good enough that he would soon graduate from a Taiwanese university, and his Arabic was good enough that he would immediately after his graduation be hired by the unofficial equivalent of the Saudi embassy to represent them on the island.

    But most Africans’ multilingual abilities include several pidgin languages and they do not have high verbal ability in any of them, including the language of their parents. Their multilingual ability, therefore, is less about general intelligence than it is a situational response by individuals living in areas where multiple languages are used in the marketplace and by their neighbors.

  89. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Graham

    Having 10,000 word vocabularies in 4 languages is impresssive, but much less impressive than having a 60,000 word vocabulary in one language (the floor for Shakespeare for example). The latter requires a much higher IQ.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    True. But I doubt many of these multilingual Africans know even ten thousand words in multiple languages. Most of them just know the basic grammar and perhaps a couple thousand words (if that) in languages related to their own. Then they might know one or possibly two European tongues to a lesser degree.

  90. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    Small island black countries always do well. T&T, Bermuda, Barbados, Bahamas. Any bigger and the problems start appearing. Jamaica is bad, and Haiti is worse.

  91. @J.Ross
    @Daniel H

    The Caribbean islands are all different. T&T has a high-IQ Indian population, reasonably honest government, plus some of the same oil deposit which made Venezuela rich (magic dirt indeed), so they can afford projects & education. They're pretty much the best one. At the opposite end is Haiti, and in the middle are places like Bermuda or Barbados. Even several of the USVI you never hear about have pretty good government and low crime.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Bermuda is not in the Caribbean.

  92. Anon[744] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Hurricane Ian. Remember all those bankers who fled the crime of New York to move to Florida? Well, Florida has great weather until it doesn’t, and then it really, really doesn’t. I bet all those finance people will go running back to New York, except this time their fangs will be out for the mayor, the police chief, and the DA. If you check Wiki, Florida gets hit by a major hurricane of Category 4 or 5, about every 6.5 years. People keep having to relearn this. Florida has had 8 hurricanes in the last 18 years of Category 3 or higher, once every 2.25 years.

    Living in a hurricane zone is a great destroyer of personal wealth, which people put much time and effort into accumulating. If you have lived on the Florida coast for 20 years, your house on average may have been seriously damaged or wiped out 3 times in a row. I’m surprised any insurer will cover your house unless you’re at least 20 miles inland.

  93. Oh, Papa Homer, you are so learned.

    Learn’d, son. It’s pronounced learn’d

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBFFoHATx8

  94. @AnotherDad
    @Patrick1982

    Steve's mention of Ghana ...


    The authors in Nature draw an important distinction between “schooling” and “learning.” For example, they commend Ghana, which is often considered to have the best government in West Africa, for extending primary and even secondary education to almost all children. Yet, so far, little learning seems to be going on in the classrooms of Ghana, which ranks second-to-last in test performance.
     
    ... is evidence for what I think: A bunch of these African scores are actually way higher than their capability. I believe they are unrepresentative samples.

    For instance eSwantini (Swaziland). Economically it's exceptionally well to do for Africa, heavily tied to the much richer South Africa. But realistically mostly it's a dump--a big Swazi sugar plantation, with Swazis doing stoop labor. No way in hell the average Swazi kid is actually performing within a standard deviation of the average American kid--at the level of Bulgarian or Uruguayan. No, a bunch of them simply aren't regularly in school, or didn't sit for whatever test.

    Ghana--by being well enough run to actually have almost all kids in school--is actually much more representative of what an average African--or at least West African--nation is capable of with the sort of normal schooling a well run but normal West African country could do.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Kenya 455
    China 441

    Looking forward to the Ken Burns special on the Old Kenyan Space Program.

    • LOL: Pincher Martin
  95. @epebble
    @Pincher Martin

    Vietnam is gaming the results

    What for? Is there a prize for coming first on list?

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    No, but prestige to some of these countries matters a great deal. Government authorities in communist countries want to be considered competent, since advancement in the party is often determined by the image of success more than by actual success.

    But I want to restate that I don’t actually know that Vietnam is either cheating or gaming the results. I just raised it as a possibility.

  96. @JohnnyWalker123
    Why is China ranked so low? Does that make sense?

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    No, but rural poverty is still a real thing in China, even decades after the country began its economic modernization. So I wouldn’t be surprised if China was in the high 400s, much like Russia and Belarus.

  97. @Peter Johnson
    Thanks to Steve for the great blog piece. There are some technical concerns regarding the last sentence in the following paragraph:

    “How good is Singapore’s 575? Well, that’s 0.63 standard deviations higher than the U.S. So the median Singaporean student would score at about the 74th percentile in the U.S., which is a noticeable difference but not immense, rather like the difference between whites and Hispanics in America. On the other hand, the gaps in the normal probability distribution become bigger at the right edge of the bell curve, so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    The first problem is that 100 is the “pooled standard deviation” across students in all countries, even though there are discernible differences in the standard deviations calculated within each country. This small correction matters quite a bit when estimating the probability density in the upper tail, that is, “higher percentage of whiz kids”. If Singapore has a lower standard deviation of test results, then it can have a higher mean but a lower percentage of “whiz kids”.

    The second problem is even more technical. The normal-distribution assumption is ok in the middle range of the true distribution but becomes strained and unrealistic in the upper and lower tails. The data does not actually look exactly normal in those extreme regions. Obvious example: the percentage of students in the lower tail getting negative scores (which is impossible) is strictly positive under exact normality. The upper tail is also not exactly normal.

    In summary, the prediction of a higher percentage of whiz kids in Singapore is implied by naïve application of normal distribution theory but is not a reliable prediction.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    This could be because IQ drives school performance—an unpopular but reasonable view.

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter. For example, in the U.S., federal NAEP scores dropped sharply when schools switched to remote learning during the pandemic.

    Steve is going out of his way to deliberately water down the obvious. Rudimentary principles of HBD, backed by mountains of data, teach that: (a) Academic success is highly determined by IQ; (b) IQ is highly determined by genetics; and (c) Mean genetic IQ is highly determined by race (I.e., East Asian>White>Hispanic>Black). The 147-country data set confirms these facts exactly (allowing for the usual statistical variations and noise arising from different sample sizes, testing protocols, and whatnot). But the article ignores genetics entirely and merely notes that IQ exists, while being totally agnostic as to why it might vary between countries. The article’s “alternative” hypothesis that differences are due to schools simply not being “strong” where scores are low is the exact opposite of race realism.

    I don’t mean to rag on Steve excessively for avoiding controversy. But if you can’t say this stuff out loud in Taki Magazine, where can you?

    • Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Hypnotoad666

    What is so obvious about Finns being smart? Ever seen one?

    Dutch and Flemish, sure are most bright. But HBD tells us they suck to Eesti peasants. Really?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Hypnotoad666

    But on a global level, it's hardly implausible that there can exist bigger differences in the effectiveness of schools than we see within the US. For example, Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico score much worse on the federal NAEP in Spanish on a special version of the NAEP written for and validated upon Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico than they do on the NAEP in English in the states. This probably has something to do with how bad and corrupt the public school system is in Puerto Rico.

    So I'm not going to rule out differences in quantity and quality of schooling around the world as a contributory factor in test score differences.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  98. @Gordo
    Bloody Hell Steve, where did you get that graph of where we in the UK get our lovely male military age refugees from?

    I’ll bet they’re planning how to boost my pension even as I write this.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    I’ll bet they’re planning how to boost my pension even as I write this.

    ‘Boost’ as in raise or ‘boost’ as in steal?

    • Agree: Gordo
  99. @Danindc
    @Craken

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Hypnotoad666, @epebble, @Anon

    They’re smart enough. The snakes in India are even smarter

  100. @Danindc
    @Craken

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Hypnotoad666, @epebble, @Anon

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Agreed. They make Pentecostals look like Rhodes Scholars.

  101. It is a very surprising rating, for anyone who knows about national stereotypes. Singapore, ok. Korea, ok too, these folks are top crammers.

    That is, if you are not American you would me mighty surprised that Eestonia and Finland come as somehow kings of smartness. This should translate in some form of human achievement, right? Who are the Finnish geniuses? They are all Swedes.

    Who are the Eesti geniuses? There aint any since their OstSee German Masters were eaten by the local peasants. Estonians in USSR had a reputations of slowpokes, not geniuses.

    So the test perhaps measured some other thing than intellect, may be obedience.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Thelma Ringbaum

    Linus Torvald? The guys who made Nokia kings of cell phones in the 1990s? The sniper who shot 500 Russians? Sibelius?

    Replies: @epebble, @Thelma Ringbaum

  102. @Hypnotoad666
    @Peter Johnson


    This could be because IQ drives school performance—an unpopular but reasonable view.

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter. For example, in the U.S., federal NAEP scores dropped sharply when schools switched to remote learning during the pandemic.
     

    Steve is going out of his way to deliberately water down the obvious. Rudimentary principles of HBD, backed by mountains of data, teach that: (a) Academic success is highly determined by IQ; (b) IQ is highly determined by genetics; and (c) Mean genetic IQ is highly determined by race (I.e., East Asian>White>Hispanic>Black). The 147-country data set confirms these facts exactly (allowing for the usual statistical variations and noise arising from different sample sizes, testing protocols, and whatnot). But the article ignores genetics entirely and merely notes that IQ exists, while being totally agnostic as to why it might vary between countries. The article's "alternative" hypothesis that differences are due to schools simply not being "strong" where scores are low is the exact opposite of race realism.

    I don't mean to rag on Steve excessively for avoiding controversy. But if you can't say this stuff out loud in Taki Magazine, where can you?

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Steve Sailer

    What is so obvious about Finns being smart? Ever seen one?

    Dutch and Flemish, sure are most bright. But HBD tells us they suck to Eesti peasants. Really?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Thelma Ringbaum


    What is so obvious about Finns being smart?
     
    "Smart" is relative. Because Finns are European, it's obvious they will score below Northwest Asians, above Middle Easterners and South Americans, and way above Africans. This is the same pattern of scores for these same ethnicities that exists even when they are all living in the same country. Ethnicity is the big driver of relative scores, not a person's country of residence.

    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia are tops within Europe, that doesn't tell us much that is interesting. After all, someone has to be first and last within the relatively narrow band of European scores.

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Reg Cæsar

  103. @Thelma Ringbaum
    It is a very surprising rating, for anyone who knows about national stereotypes. Singapore, ok. Korea, ok too, these folks are top crammers.

    That is, if you are not American you would me mighty surprised that Eestonia and Finland come as somehow kings of smartness. This should translate in some form of human achievement, right? Who are the Finnish geniuses? They are all Swedes.

    Who are the Eesti geniuses? There aint any since their OstSee German Masters were eaten by the local peasants. Estonians in USSR had a reputations of slowpokes, not geniuses.

    So the test perhaps measured some other thing than intellect, may be obedience.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Linus Torvald? The guys who made Nokia kings of cell phones in the 1990s? The sniper who shot 500 Russians? Sibelius?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Steve Sailer

    Linus is a Swede from Finland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish-speaking_population_of_Finland#Notable_Swedish-speakers_from_Finland

    , @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Steve Sailer

    All Swedes, not Finns, with the possible exception of the sniper. Who could have been a cryptoswede.

    Imagine, no Finn lady found to be Linus wifey, she also is a Swede.

    So, the alien elites of Finland are doing well for thenselves. Finnish peasants are functional ,Ok. What does the PISA test really measure? I doubt they exclude all the Finns from the tests . There are not enough Swedes there for that.

    It is like, in a Moscow jewish school number fifty seven, all kids are math geniuses. Rest of russian kids are ok folks, perhaps less disciplined than the Finns. What would a general test across Russia show? It shows Russians are generally less obedient than Finns. I can believe that. Thats not exactly the intellect though.

  104. @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Hypnotoad666

    What is so obvious about Finns being smart? Ever seen one?

    Dutch and Flemish, sure are most bright. But HBD tells us they suck to Eesti peasants. Really?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    What is so obvious about Finns being smart?

    “Smart” is relative. Because Finns are European, it’s obvious they will score below Northwest Asians, above Middle Easterners and South Americans, and way above Africans. This is the same pattern of scores for these same ethnicities that exists even when they are all living in the same country. Ethnicity is the big driver of relative scores, not a person’s country of residence.

    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia are tops within Europe, that doesn’t tell us much that is interesting. After all, someone has to be first and last within the relatively narrow band of European scores.

    • Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Hypnotoad666

    Well, if results of a test are surprising then there is some kind of cheating, or some kind of noise in the scoring method. Why a micro baltian state known for eating well, growing tall and being good at backetball scores better than a micro nordsee state that gave humanity a scientific revolution? Something is odd there.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666


    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia...
     
    Finland has five million people. You'd have to be from India or China to consider that a "microstate". The term is usually reserved for populations under six figures.

    Vatican City, by the way, isn't the smallest nation on earth it's not even the smallest in the city of Rome.



    Enjoy a rare World Cup qualifying match between two real microstates:


    https://youtu.be/b6MRt7JwQLg
  105. @Hypnotoad666
    @Peter Johnson


    This could be because IQ drives school performance—an unpopular but reasonable view.

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter. For example, in the U.S., federal NAEP scores dropped sharply when schools switched to remote learning during the pandemic.
     

    Steve is going out of his way to deliberately water down the obvious. Rudimentary principles of HBD, backed by mountains of data, teach that: (a) Academic success is highly determined by IQ; (b) IQ is highly determined by genetics; and (c) Mean genetic IQ is highly determined by race (I.e., East Asian>White>Hispanic>Black). The 147-country data set confirms these facts exactly (allowing for the usual statistical variations and noise arising from different sample sizes, testing protocols, and whatnot). But the article ignores genetics entirely and merely notes that IQ exists, while being totally agnostic as to why it might vary between countries. The article's "alternative" hypothesis that differences are due to schools simply not being "strong" where scores are low is the exact opposite of race realism.

    I don't mean to rag on Steve excessively for avoiding controversy. But if you can't say this stuff out loud in Taki Magazine, where can you?

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Steve Sailer

    But on a global level, it’s hardly implausible that there can exist bigger differences in the effectiveness of schools than we see within the US. For example, Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico score much worse on the federal NAEP in Spanish on a special version of the NAEP written for and validated upon Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico than they do on the NAEP in English in the states. This probably has something to do with how bad and corrupt the public school system is in Puerto Rico.

    So I’m not going to rule out differences in quantity and quality of schooling around the world as a contributory factor in test score differences.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Steve Sailer


    But on a global level, it’s hardly implausible that there can exist bigger differences in the effectiveness of schools than we see within the US.
     
    If NAEP scores are independent of IQ then why do they function essentially as a proxy for IQ? They're like the SAT -- you can say the "A" stands for "achievement" (and it's partly true) but the scores are still overwhelmingly determined by IQ.

    Of course schooling must also have some effect on NAEP scores. But at present it just seems like circular analysis -- schools are assumed to be weak because the kids have low test scores, and the low test scores are assumed to result from weak schooling. To test the schooling hypothesis you'd want to compare scores in places with "weak" schools and "strong" students, and vice versa. I don't know how you would do this internationally, but I know that in the U.S. school funding has zero impact on test scores.

    As to Puerto Rico, you'd want to compare the IQs of the Spanish-speaking PR residents vs. the English-speaking US resident of PR descent. My guess is that would easily explain any NAEP score difference. At this point, living in PR (if you're not a hedge fund manager) is one big IQ test: if you are still living there instead of Florida or New York, you failed the test.
  106. @Danindc
    @Craken

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Hypnotoad666, @epebble, @Anon

    I don’t know how to parse that logic. People die when they are around dangerous animals. 100,000 Americans die from ingesting poison every year. Are we dumb?

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-deaths-overwhelm-us-morgues

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @epebble

    Good point. Yes, probably. It’s an insanely high number though. I was shocked.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

  107. @Steve Sailer
    @Thelma Ringbaum

    Linus Torvald? The guys who made Nokia kings of cell phones in the 1990s? The sniper who shot 500 Russians? Sibelius?

    Replies: @epebble, @Thelma Ringbaum

  108. @Steve Sailer
    @Thelma Ringbaum

    Linus Torvald? The guys who made Nokia kings of cell phones in the 1990s? The sniper who shot 500 Russians? Sibelius?

    Replies: @epebble, @Thelma Ringbaum

    All Swedes, not Finns, with the possible exception of the sniper. Who could have been a cryptoswede.

    Imagine, no Finn lady found to be Linus wifey, she also is a Swede.

    So, the alien elites of Finland are doing well for thenselves. Finnish peasants are functional ,Ok. What does the PISA test really measure? I doubt they exclude all the Finns from the tests . There are not enough Swedes there for that.

    It is like, in a Moscow jewish school number fifty seven, all kids are math geniuses. Rest of russian kids are ok folks, perhaps less disciplined than the Finns. What would a general test across Russia show? It shows Russians are generally less obedient than Finns. I can believe that. Thats not exactly the intellect though.

  109. @Hypnotoad666
    @Thelma Ringbaum


    What is so obvious about Finns being smart?
     
    "Smart" is relative. Because Finns are European, it's obvious they will score below Northwest Asians, above Middle Easterners and South Americans, and way above Africans. This is the same pattern of scores for these same ethnicities that exists even when they are all living in the same country. Ethnicity is the big driver of relative scores, not a person's country of residence.

    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia are tops within Europe, that doesn't tell us much that is interesting. After all, someone has to be first and last within the relatively narrow band of European scores.

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Reg Cæsar

    Well, if results of a test are surprising then there is some kind of cheating, or some kind of noise in the scoring method. Why a micro baltian state known for eating well, growing tall and being good at backetball scores better than a micro nordsee state that gave humanity a scientific revolution? Something is odd there.

  110. Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter.

    Good training doesn’t increase one’s intelligence as much as enable more efficient use of it. The Ivies and similar schools once made dumb kids smart, but now concentrate on making smart kids dumb.

    inland Finland

    Inland Finland under bleedin’ Sweden:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, before the Russians showed up it was the Swedes who were the big bullies of northern Europe. (Ask the Danes about what the Swedes did to Scania)

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Reg Cæsar


    "What has Sweden got that Norway hasn't got?"

    "Good neighbours"
     
    I think P.J. O'Rourke heard that one in Norway.
  111. @Hypnotoad666
    @Thelma Ringbaum


    What is so obvious about Finns being smart?
     
    "Smart" is relative. Because Finns are European, it's obvious they will score below Northwest Asians, above Middle Easterners and South Americans, and way above Africans. This is the same pattern of scores for these same ethnicities that exists even when they are all living in the same country. Ethnicity is the big driver of relative scores, not a person's country of residence.

    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia are tops within Europe, that doesn't tell us much that is interesting. After all, someone has to be first and last within the relatively narrow band of European scores.

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Reg Cæsar

    If the micro states of Finland and Estonia…

    Finland has five million people. You’d have to be from India or China to consider that a “microstate”. The term is usually reserved for populations under six figures.

    Vatican City, by the way, isn’t the smallest nation on earth it’s not even the smallest in the city of Rome.

    Enjoy a rare World Cup qualifying match between two real microstates:

  112. @Reg Cæsar

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter.
     
    Good training doesn't increase one's intelligence as much as enable more efficient use of it. The Ivies and similar schools once made dumb kids smart, but now concentrate on making smart kids dumb.

    inland Finland
     
    Inland Finland under bleedin' Sweden:


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Swedish_Empire.svg/1168px-Swedish_Empire.svg.png

    Replies: @Anonymous, @YetAnotherAnon

    Yes, before the Russians showed up it was the Swedes who were the big bullies of northern Europe. (Ask the Danes about what the Swedes did to Scania)

  113. @Batman
    @Hannah Katz

    Same is true for Nigerians in America. Only the smartest make it here, so you might be tricked into thinking it's a smart country because the sample is very unrepresentative. What's worse is all the Nigerians in America are absolutely miserable people because they felt like (and were) an Albert Einstein intellectual God with their 115 IQ in the home country because they lived among among hundreds of millions of people who are effectively mentally retarded.

    Replies: @International Jew

    Nigerians in America. Only the smartest make it here, so you might be tricked into thinking it’s a smart country

    Nah, no danger of that in my case.

  114. @Foreign Expert
    It would be interesting to rank countries on their ability to learn foreign languages. Some countries seem to punch above their weight. The Philippines and some African countries, for example.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Jonathan Mason, @Graham, @Erik Sieven

    at least in Germany African immigrants are often more quick to learn the language than immigrants from East Asia.

  115. These just measure social conformity of the children and the literacy rate in the country (i.e. the extent of industrialization). Nothing related to intelligence and neither are these ranking designed to measure intelligence.

    Alleged “IQ tests” and other academic indicators are measuring literacy or social conformity, which is why people trying to do cross-country comparison for these tests is a indication of low intelligence, unless they know they are showing a correlate for exposure to modernization or industrialization of different populations.

    • Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Dmitry

    The obedience in kids may relate to intellect. But in a nonlinear way. If you do not have self control to stop your tabletop safety dance when the class starts, you will score very low. But at the top levels of intellect, which btw is also linked to sexual drive, kids will be bored with the stupid questions.

    So the tests likely show Finns being the most literate, mediocre, docile helots ( to their Swedish masters) in the World.

  116. @AnotherDad
    @Hannah Katz


    Indian kids have been dominating our local scholastic contests in the Austin area, which would at first seem to contradict the low score of the mother nation. Clearly they are sending us their best and brightest minds, and with like 1.4 billion minds to choose from, I guess it makes sense that some really smart ones can be found. I wonder if those wonder kids will revert to the mean in a generation or two.
     
    Everyone here at Steve's joint--anyone HBD aware--should have firm understand that India is simply not a one-people nation like say Sweden (was) or Japan or even mostly a big sprawling ethnic group like China, or even a tribal conglomeration like Nigeria.

    There simply is no such thing as an "Indian" like there is a "Swede" or "Han Chinese".

    Indian had something like 40,000 distinct endogamous groups. (You can't even come up with a credible estimate.) My best friend from grad school and his wife are both middle-class Marathi Brahmins, from the same area ... but slightly different sorts of Marathi Brahmins who would not have been an acceptable match (don't ask me) even a generation earlier.

    In Europe, even under feudalism there were ... two castes. Nobility and commoners. Our priestly class--unlike their Brahmins--didn't even (normally) breed. And the nobility was constantly refreshed by nobility snapping up pretty girls from the gentry. And gentry being elevated to nobility by this or that service. Basically, even under feudalism European genes were highly mobile.

    To conceptualize India, think of something more like having 40,000 different groups like the Jews--each insisting on keeping themselves tribally distinct, even from other very similar peoples in the same social class in the same area. But without the Jews' religious hostility--instead everyone on the same page, religiously but the religion supporting/justifying the tribal endogamy. And then at the bottom an untouchable group everyone else thinks is beneath them to breed with like blacks in America--except even more strict ideas about purity and contamination.

    Indians in America have some variance (ex. the Sikhs). But most of the ones you find in the coastal and tech heavy areas of the US in neighborhoods with "good schools" are super-heavily selected--often US grad school--and from small high-caste groups, most of them Brahmins.

    And correspondingly their "regression to the mean" is only plausibly toward the mean of their parent's caste group. And even that is mitigated by the screen of who comes here and who they marry. These people have essentially nothing to do with whatever the nominal mean "Indian IQ" is.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Or: India is proof that diversity is a problem.

  117. @Anonymous
    I'm shocked at the low rankings of Israel and Armenia.
    These facts alone seriously undermine my credence of the efficacy of this particular series of tests.
    It is patently obvious that the Ashkenazim and the Armenians are amongst the most naturally intellectually gifted of all the ethnicities on this planet.

    Replies: @njguy73, @CharleszMartel, @Ian Smith, @Nachum

    Less than half (I think about 49%) of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazim. Throw in 20% Arab and you have less than 40% Ashkenazi. Which is still a higher percentage of Ashkenazim than any other country, of course, so maybe it’s still weird, but not as weird as it would be for a 100% Ashkenazi country.

  118. @Muggles
    @HammerJack


    That said, I’m still astonished at the widespread adoption of English as a second language in various third-world places all around the globe. Places which were never even part of the British Empire..
     
    English is based on Old Germanic languages plus a lot of Latin (now Romance) language(s).

    I'm not a linguist but I understand that the grammar is somewhat non standard but the structure of the grammar is pretty flexible. English easily adopts useful idioms and words from other languages and it doesn't have to be spoken correctly or exactly.

    It is not tonal like many Asian ones.

    Also, it is the modern language of science and trade (and computers) and is so widespread that teaching it is a valuable asset for nearly everyone. Also, many countries have local dialects or tribal languages and variations whereas English can be learned by all and these differences don't matter as much.

    In the ancient world, Greek and Latin were similar in dominance. Don't know about India/China but probably Hindi/Urdu and Mandarin were pretty dominant. China more varied. Mongolian spread for a while but Arabic became much more widespread despite invasions.

    Spanish is pretty popular and can be easily incorporated, usually, into English.

    A lot of small country languages will eventually die out. Latvian anyone?

    Replies: @Graham

    A couple of points from an ex-linguist: complexity in a language tends to pop up in one place if it’s low in another. Yes, English is inflexionally simple, but has thousands of phrasal verb constructions (like ‘put up with’, tolerate, versus ‘put up’, accommodate); and when to use the word ‘the’ is far more complicated than we native speakers realise (which is one reason why the English of Russians, who don’t have ‘the’ in their language, can sound odd); and there are many other subtleties that make English hard to learn for speakers of non-Germanic tongues.

    Secondly, even if language complexity does vary greatly (not counting creoles, which tend to be simpler), which I doubt, we have to account for Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament, becoming the lingua Franca of the eastern Roman Empire. It is inflexionally very complicated, and almost every verb is irregular: ‘phero’, I carry, ‘oiso’, I shall carry, ‘enenka’, I carried.

  119. @Peter Johnson
    Thanks to Steve for the great blog piece. There are some technical concerns regarding the last sentence in the following paragraph:

    “How good is Singapore’s 575? Well, that’s 0.63 standard deviations higher than the U.S. So the median Singaporean student would score at about the 74th percentile in the U.S., which is a noticeable difference but not immense, rather like the difference between whites and Hispanics in America. On the other hand, the gaps in the normal probability distribution become bigger at the right edge of the bell curve, so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    The first problem is that 100 is the “pooled standard deviation” across students in all countries, even though there are discernible differences in the standard deviations calculated within each country. This small correction matters quite a bit when estimating the probability density in the upper tail, that is, “higher percentage of whiz kids”. If Singapore has a lower standard deviation of test results, then it can have a higher mean but a lower percentage of “whiz kids”.

    The second problem is even more technical. The normal-distribution assumption is ok in the middle range of the true distribution but becomes strained and unrealistic in the upper and lower tails. The data does not actually look exactly normal in those extreme regions. Obvious example: the percentage of students in the lower tail getting negative scores (which is impossible) is strictly positive under exact normality. The upper tail is also not exactly normal.

    In summary, the prediction of a higher percentage of whiz kids in Singapore is implied by naïve application of normal distribution theory but is not a reliable prediction.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    SHWIZZATT!! The Iron Zippo of Slang Nazi zips into action!

    The correct expression is “wiz kids” as in “wizards”. A “whiz kid” would be someone who can squirt his pee at prodigious lengths.

    An interesting talent in its own right to be sure, but I’ll be hanging over at Yenching with the actual wiz kids, thankee very much.

    And with that little bit of tendentious tedium, Slang Nazi snaps his Zippo shut, scoots out the French window, over the balcony and into the passenger seat of a waiting Miata convertible, and vanishes into the night…. Ugh. Lamppost, dammit. Stupid blood alcohol levels.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/whiz-kid


    a young person who is very smart and successful:

    They've taken on some financial whiz-kid.
     
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whiz%20kid

    whiz kid
    noun
    variants or less commonly whizz kid
    : a person who is unusually intelligent, clever, or successful especially at an early age

    Recent Examples on the Web

    Ethereum, launched in 2015 by a 21-year-old whiz kid named Vitalik Buterin, is about to swap proof-of-work mining for an alternative system known as proof of stake, which does not require energy-guzzling computers.
    WIRED, 20 Aug. 2022

    For Salt & Straw co-creator and ice cream whiz kid Tyler Malek, this lack of smell smelled like an opportunity.
    oregonlive, 15 July 2022

    Eleven, Queens of the Stone Age), drumming whiz kid Nandi Bushell, Chic’s Nile Rodgers, former Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic and producer Greg Kurstin.
    Gil Kaufman, Billboard, 17 June 2022

     

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  120. @Pixo
    @Hannah Katz

    Hindu migration is ultra selective and their kids regress to the mean far worse than any other US population. They nonetheless get shunted off to college where their downward mobility makes them resentful of White America.

    NE Asian migration is much preferable than S Asian for this reason. Ultimately becoming a little more like S Korea or Japan has its upsides. If India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have any redeeming qualities I am unaware of them.

    Replies: @sb

    Much the same in Australia .
    I’d say that NE Asians often wish to become (more)Western whereas South Asians just want to be rich.

  121. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Johnson

    "so Singapore has a much higher percentage of whiz kids than does the U.S.”

    SHWIZZATT!! The Iron Zippo of Slang Nazi zips into action!

    The correct expression is "wiz kids" as in "wizards". A "whiz kid" would be someone who can squirt his pee at prodigious lengths.

    An interesting talent in its own right to be sure, but I'll be hanging over at Yenching with the actual wiz kids, thankee very much.

    And with that little bit of tendentious tedium, Slang Nazi snaps his Zippo shut, scoots out the French window, over the balcony and into the passenger seat of a waiting Miata convertible, and vanishes into the night.... Ugh. Lamppost, dammit. Stupid blood alcohol levels.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/whiz-kid

    a young person who is very smart and successful:

    They’ve taken on some financial whiz-kid.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whiz%20kid

    whiz kid
    noun
    variants or less commonly whizz kid
    : a person who is unusually intelligent, clever, or successful especially at an early age

    Recent Examples on the Web

    Ethereum, launched in 2015 by a 21-year-old whiz kid named Vitalik Buterin, is about to swap proof-of-work mining for an alternative system known as proof of stake, which does not require energy-guzzling computers.
    WIRED, 20 Aug. 2022

    For Salt & Straw co-creator and ice cream whiz kid Tyler Malek, this lack of smell smelled like an opportunity.
    oregonlive, 15 July 2022

    Eleven, Queens of the Stone Age), drumming whiz kid Nandi Bushell, Chic’s Nile Rodgers, former Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic and producer Greg Kurstin.
    Gil Kaufman, Billboard, 17 June 2022

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Sounds like some people could use a better editor.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

  122. @Reg Cæsar

    Alternatively, strong schools could make children smarter.
     
    Good training doesn't increase one's intelligence as much as enable more efficient use of it. The Ivies and similar schools once made dumb kids smart, but now concentrate on making smart kids dumb.

    inland Finland
     
    Inland Finland under bleedin' Sweden:


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Swedish_Empire.svg/1168px-Swedish_Empire.svg.png

    Replies: @Anonymous, @YetAnotherAnon

    “What has Sweden got that Norway hasn’t got?”

    “Good neighbours”

    I think P.J. O’Rourke heard that one in Norway.

  123. @Anon 2
    As expected, Poland scored higher than the U.K. and Germany,
    and much higher than the U.S. and France.Poor performances
    by Russia, Italy, and Israel have been noted.

    Poland and Japan are becoming soulmates, located on
    the western and eastern flanks of Russia. Japan is a very high
    performer in Asia and Poland is a very high performer in
    Europe, although with a much smaller population and
    extremely hostile neighbors, Poland obviously could not be
    expected to achieve as much as Japan. However, being a nation
    of storytellers, Poland on a per capita basis has produced more
    Nobel laureates in literature than either the U.S. or Russia.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    Poland, unlike the UK, hasn’t got a large number of “minority” children.

  124. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Danindc
    @Craken

    58,000 Indians die from snake bites every year. Every year! How smart can they be?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Hypnotoad666, @epebble, @Anon

    I’d like to see the gender breakdown on that. It could be a toilet issue. They don’t have indoor toilets, so they go outside. The women cannot be seen “doing it”, so they have to go at night, walking far from the small villages, and one of the issues is they get bitten by snakes.

    There is a Brahmin activist —forget his name— that has been doing a lot of work about the toilets and the plight of widows. Don’t have time to check, but he (toilet activist) might be featured in this video:

    • Thanks: Danindc
  125. @epebble
    @Danindc

    I don't know how to parse that logic. People die when they are around dangerous animals. 100,000 Americans die from ingesting poison every year. Are we dumb?

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-deaths-overwhelm-us-morgues

    Replies: @Danindc

    Good point. Yes, probably. It’s an insanely high number though. I was shocked.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Danindc

    Venomous snakes in India are far more poisonous and aggressive than their counterparts in the US. Combine that with the large rural and poor population of India, which numbers in the hundreds of millions, and often does not have immediate access to antivenoms, and the number of deaths by snakebite is not so surprising.

    The most poisonous snake in America is probably the coral snake and it almost never bites (10-15 cases a year). Even when it does bite, it is rarely fatal because its small fangs can't penetrate thick clothing. What's more, as poisonous as the coral snake is, its venom is still not as deadly as any of the Big Four in India.

    Most rattlesnakes in the US, which are the most common and widespread of the venomous snakes in North America and account for the most bites annually, can't kill a healthy person with their venom.

  126. @Danindc
    @epebble

    Good point. Yes, probably. It’s an insanely high number though. I was shocked.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Venomous snakes in India are far more poisonous and aggressive than their counterparts in the US. Combine that with the large rural and poor population of India, which numbers in the hundreds of millions, and often does not have immediate access to antivenoms, and the number of deaths by snakebite is not so surprising.

    The most poisonous snake in America is probably the coral snake and it almost never bites (10-15 cases a year). Even when it does bite, it is rarely fatal because its small fangs can’t penetrate thick clothing. What’s more, as poisonous as the coral snake is, its venom is still not as deadly as any of the Big Four in India.

    Most rattlesnakes in the US, which are the most common and widespread of the venomous snakes in North America and account for the most bites annually, can’t kill a healthy person with their venom.

  127. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    I always associate it with V.S. Naipaul and his essay on Michael X and the black power killings in the 1970’s. John and Yoko thought so highly of the cult that they gifted Michael X with a grand piano!

  128. @Steve Sailer
    @Hypnotoad666

    But on a global level, it's hardly implausible that there can exist bigger differences in the effectiveness of schools than we see within the US. For example, Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico score much worse on the federal NAEP in Spanish on a special version of the NAEP written for and validated upon Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico than they do on the NAEP in English in the states. This probably has something to do with how bad and corrupt the public school system is in Puerto Rico.

    So I'm not going to rule out differences in quantity and quality of schooling around the world as a contributory factor in test score differences.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    But on a global level, it’s hardly implausible that there can exist bigger differences in the effectiveness of schools than we see within the US.

    If NAEP scores are independent of IQ then why do they function essentially as a proxy for IQ? They’re like the SAT — you can say the “A” stands for “achievement” (and it’s partly true) but the scores are still overwhelmingly determined by IQ.

    Of course schooling must also have some effect on NAEP scores. But at present it just seems like circular analysis — schools are assumed to be weak because the kids have low test scores, and the low test scores are assumed to result from weak schooling. To test the schooling hypothesis you’d want to compare scores in places with “weak” schools and “strong” students, and vice versa. I don’t know how you would do this internationally, but I know that in the U.S. school funding has zero impact on test scores.

    As to Puerto Rico, you’d want to compare the IQs of the Spanish-speaking PR residents vs. the English-speaking US resident of PR descent. My guess is that would easily explain any NAEP score difference. At this point, living in PR (if you’re not a hedge fund manager) is one big IQ test: if you are still living there instead of Florida or New York, you failed the test.

  129. @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    Judgement call.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Corvinus

    Speaking about judgement calls…

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/29/politics/trump-special-master-request-doj-inventory/index.html

    You really need to wake up here.

  130. @Peter Akuleyev
    The Phillipines is kind of a tragedy. The East Asian country that can't. On paper they have a lot of advantages - English speaking population available to work for low wages, proximity to dynamic markets, American legal traditions, etc. I've met a lot of businessmen who think Philippines will be the next big thing. And it never is. A genetic ceiling makes a lot of sense. Indonesia (395) and other countries with a lot of Malayo-Polynesian populations seem to also hit this ceiling.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Thelma Ringbaum

    Nay, given that Malays and Indos are the same race as Pinoys , the only factor in the wealth of these Nations is whose colonies they were. Brits and Dutch just make far better masters than Americans.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Thelma Ringbaum

    Indonesia also underperforms fairly dramatically. Malaysia gets a boost from the large Han Chinese minority. The more Malay a region is, the poorer it is.

  131. @Dmitry
    These just measure social conformity of the children and the literacy rate in the country (i.e. the extent of industrialization). Nothing related to intelligence and neither are these ranking designed to measure intelligence.

    Alleged “IQ tests” and other academic indicators are measuring literacy or social conformity, which is why people trying to do cross-country comparison for these tests is a indication of low intelligence, unless they know they are showing a correlate for exposure to modernization or industrialization of different populations.

    Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum

    The obedience in kids may relate to intellect. But in a nonlinear way. If you do not have self control to stop your tabletop safety dance when the class starts, you will score very low. But at the top levels of intellect, which btw is also linked to sexual drive, kids will be bored with the stupid questions.

    So the tests likely show Finns being the most literate, mediocre, docile helots ( to their Swedish masters) in the World.

  132. On the other hand, if you had to guess who’d come in last

    Niger, please!

  133. @YetAnotherAnon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/whiz-kid


    a young person who is very smart and successful:

    They've taken on some financial whiz-kid.
     
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whiz%20kid

    whiz kid
    noun
    variants or less commonly whizz kid
    : a person who is unusually intelligent, clever, or successful especially at an early age

    Recent Examples on the Web

    Ethereum, launched in 2015 by a 21-year-old whiz kid named Vitalik Buterin, is about to swap proof-of-work mining for an alternative system known as proof of stake, which does not require energy-guzzling computers.
    WIRED, 20 Aug. 2022

    For Salt & Straw co-creator and ice cream whiz kid Tyler Malek, this lack of smell smelled like an opportunity.
    oregonlive, 15 July 2022

    Eleven, Queens of the Stone Age), drumming whiz kid Nandi Bushell, Chic’s Nile Rodgers, former Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic and producer Greg Kurstin.
    Gil Kaufman, Billboard, 17 June 2022

     

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Sounds like some people could use a better editor.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Sounds like you need to better educate yourself. The orthography of "Whiz Kids" has been in common usage for more than half a century. You can find it in the newspapers, books, TV shows, etc., dating back to at least the 1960s and probably as early as the 1940s.

    https://ia600308.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderPreview.php?id=whizkidsfounding00byrn&itemPath=%2F22%2Fitems%2Fwhizkidsfounding00byrn&server=ia600308.us.archive.org&page=cover_w500_h500.jpg

    These young men were not celebrated for their urination skills.

  134. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Sounds like some people could use a better editor.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Sounds like you need to better educate yourself. The orthography of “Whiz Kids” has been in common usage for more than half a century. You can find it in the newspapers, books, TV shows, etc., dating back to at least the 1960s and probably as early as the 1940s.

    These young men were not celebrated for their urination skills.

  135. The word “whiz” does not derive from “wizard.” It derives from the sound of something moving very fast as it passes — whizzz. A whiz kid thinks very fast.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Peter Johnson

    I must say, it always pleases my heart to see very smart people arguing about very silly things.

    Hotcha, y'all!!

    , @MEH 0910
    @Peter Johnson

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizzzer



    "Wizzer" redirects here. For other uses, see Whizzer (disambiguation).
     
    The Wizzzer or Wiz-z-zer is a gyrostat toy introduced by Mattel Toymakers in 1969, and introduced the spinning top to modern children. The "twist" (innovation) was the use of a super-spinning, high-tech bearing, that allowed the top to spin at very high speed and remain standing for a long period of time. This top did not rely on a string to attain high speed so it was easier to master than tops of old. Wizzers are not sold as scientific instruments, but may be used to demonstrate the conservation of angular momentum and gyroscope stability.
     
    1970 WIZZER Toy Commercial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRbCfXi1Nw

    70's Ads: Twin Mini Whizzer Mattel 1971
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qsSpW7m8bY

    70's Ads: Canned Whizzer Mattel 1971
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-nW2LOFBUA

  136. @Peter Johnson
    The word "whiz" does not derive from "wizard." It derives from the sound of something moving very fast as it passes --- whizzz. A whiz kid thinks very fast.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @MEH 0910

    I must say, it always pleases my heart to see very smart people arguing about very silly things.

    Hotcha, y’all!!

  137. @Thelma Ringbaum
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Nay, given that Malays and Indos are the same race as Pinoys , the only factor in the wealth of these Nations is whose colonies they were. Brits and Dutch just make far better masters than Americans.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Indonesia also underperforms fairly dramatically. Malaysia gets a boost from the large Han Chinese minority. The more Malay a region is, the poorer it is.

  138. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/29/us/middle-eastern-north-african-race-survey.html
    https://archive.ph/VmTuj

  139. @Peter Johnson
    The word "whiz" does not derive from "wizard." It derives from the sound of something moving very fast as it passes --- whizzz. A whiz kid thinks very fast.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @MEH 0910

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizzzer

    “Wizzer” redirects here. For other uses, see Whizzer (disambiguation).

    The Wizzzer or Wiz-z-zer is a gyrostat toy introduced by Mattel Toymakers in 1969, and introduced the spinning top to modern children. The “twist” (innovation) was the use of a super-spinning, high-tech bearing, that allowed the top to spin at very high speed and remain standing for a long period of time. This top did not rely on a string to attain high speed so it was easier to master than tops of old. Wizzers are not sold as scientific instruments, but may be used to demonstrate the conservation of angular momentum and gyroscope stability.

    1970 WIZZER Toy Commercial

    [MORE]

    70’s Ads: Twin Mini Whizzer Mattel 1971

    70’s Ads: Canned Whizzer Mattel 1971

  140. @Daniel H
    Trinidad and Tobago are performing well above their score. They are the 3rd most prosperous society in the Americas, after USA and Canada. And it makes sense. We never hear anything from Trinidad & Tobago. Nothing good, nothing bad. That is always a good sign.

    But what account for this? Well, half the population is African American the other half South Asian. Not a bad mix, they balance each other, they get along well, cooperate and create a decent society. Few of us here would be put out living in Trinidan & Tobago.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @Bill Jones, @martin_2, @epebble, @TelfoedJohn, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Jugon

    After researching I found out the homicide rate in Trinidad and Tobago is more than 30 people per 100 000.seems like it’s place where trigger happy gangs run loose and settlements are racially polarized.

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