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Hot and Bothered: the Weird New Fetish for Historical Racism Porn
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One of the stranger developments of the last decade or two is the emergence of a widespread public taste for historical racism porn: the younger generation gets titillated in a quasi-sexual fashion by depictions of things in the past that set off their Warning: Problematic brain alarms. You can hear it in movie theaters with young audiences: in a period piece, when a bad person says something racist or sexist, the teens react with the same gasps and titters as 1970s teens did when an actress took her top off.

Not surprisingly, clickbait sites such as The Atlantic Monthly cater to this 21st Century fetish by searching out Inappropriately Fraught media moments from the past. For example, somebody at The Atlantic named Lenika Cruz met her content generation quota by reviving a Tsk-Tsk frenzy that had been launched in 2012 by Buzzfeed over fast food ads from around 1976:

‘Dinnertimin’ and ‘No Tipping’: How Advertisers Targeted Black Consumers in the 1970s
In an attempt to reach African American customers, many U.S. businesses began integrating their commercials—often by relying on fraught stereotypes.

But the way many agencies went about this demonstrates how little they understood about their target demographic—and the results, like so many vintage ads, appear deeply misguided to modern audiences. To McDonald’s, for example, appealing to African American consumers specifically meant, in part, ads such as “Makin’ it” and “Dinnertimin,’” which made extensive use of “g-dropping.”

SJW’s have been getting hot and bothered over this ad that ran in Ebony and Jet in August 1976 for the last three years. NPR’s CodeSwitch responded to this ad in 2014 with:

Wow. Just. Wow.

A few facts, however:

– Of course, these ads didn’t run in The Atlantic Monthly or Readers’ Digest, they ran in Ebony and Jet, black-owned and written magazines.

– This 1976 ad was almost certainly created by Burrell Communications, the black advertising firm founded in Chicago by Thomas J. Burrell that won the black advertising accounts for Coke and McDonalds in the early 1970s. (Burrell also handled advertising for Johnson Publishing’s Ebony and Jet.)

Mr. Burrell was a big deal in the marketing industry. I can recall the market research firm I worked for in Chicago in the early 1990s putting out a press release boasting that they had talked him into joining our Board of Directors.

– McDonald’s is not in the business of insulting black potential customers, as their huge sales to blacks demonstrate. They spend a lot on marketing research. If that’s the ad they ran in 1976 in Ebony and Jet, that is presumptively what Ebony and Jet readers found appealing at that moment.

– Black culture cycles through a lot of a verbal fashions. In 1976, the blacks who subscribed to Ebony and Jet tended to have been born in the South, where both races tended to drop their terminal Gs. This ad is a way to reassure them that McDonald’s was a friendly place where they wouldn’t be judged on their down home accents.

– Putting in writing that there’s “no tipping” at McDonald’s probably was appreciated by blacks who worried that maybe they were supposed to be tipping but weren’t. Part of the annoyance of the class system for people toward the bottom is that there are a lot of unwritten rules about practices like tipping, so putting things in writing like this is helpful to them. (Of course, SJWs want more things to go unwritten so they can feel even more superior.)

– Obviously, the Racism Porn aspect of this ad for contemporary SJWs is that they know that blacks tend, on average, to tip waitresses less, so it’s arousing for them to see any reference in writing to this empirical pattern. Mentioning it gets SJWs hot and bothered, and they — evidently — like that.

 
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  1. A close friend (who is also a partner in one of my businesses) and my brother both worked as waiters in college, at the same restaurant. The stories they told about waiting on blacks were absolutely nuts. With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all (assuming of course that the blacks in question didn’t just do the old dine-n-dash). I could not have done that job for one single day, believe me.
    They and the other servers also used to have holiday (e.g., Easter, Mother’s Day, etc.) big hat contests. They would all pony in some cash and whoever had the table with the lady with biggest, most ostentatious hat would get to keep all the money at the end of the shift. I really wish I could have seen some of those hats.

    • Replies: @Tarrou
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Yeah, things haven't changed. My SO tends bar in a black-majority town, and the tales are depressingly common. The slang is a bit funny too, the servers refer to blacks as "Canadians", another group known for not tipping. As in "Good luck, you just got sat a six-top of Canadians!". According to the staff there, blacks also send their food back to the kitchen at a rate at least five or ten times that of whites. FWIW, the second worst group is middle-aged white women in groups.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Brutusale, @Moderate Mom

    , @Jonathan Silber
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all...

    My experience waiting tables, too.

    Also, I tended bar for a while at a joint in Chicago that was frequented by black members of the local professional sports teams. Those guys would drink expensive cognac and tip change or nothing at all.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    , @ivvenalis
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    The elaborate hats worn by black church ladies were a running joke in the (very tame) newspaper comic strip "Curtis".

  2. advancedatheist [AKA "RedneckCryonicist"] says:

    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can’t earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers – “Welcome to McDonald’s. May I take your order?”

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @advancedatheist

    You must not have ordered at a fast food restaurant in a while.

    , @Truth
    @advancedatheist

    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can’t earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers"

    ...Or maybe they're hungry and it's quick?

    , @Sparkling Wiggle
    @advancedatheist

    Your comment reminded me of how black fast food employees combine "how may I help you" and "may I take your order?" into one run-on. This is how I'm almost always greeted at fast food restaurants:

    "Welcome to McDonald's, how may I take your order?"

    Accurately, please.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Stephen H.
    @advancedatheist

    African-Americans loves them some buttery seafood. I know, I waited tables at a big chain seafood place (rhymes w/ Dead Mobster) while in college and it's not exactly an inexpensive restaurant. But tipping? Ha! From blacks, it was a rarity, or meager when it did occur, like a $2 tip on $100 check.

    Get your own damn cheddar cheese biscuits!
    That's all I have to say now.

    , @Marty
    @advancedatheist

    Over the last ten years I've noticed that the black response to, "may I take your order?" is invariably "yeah, lemme getta ..." However many sub-varieties of U.S. blacks there are, this is common to all.

    , @Ed
    @advancedatheist

    You want haughty behavior, try waiting tables during Mother's Day or Easter. These days tend to bring out poorer African Americans to restaurants. Where they proceed to wreak all kinds of havoc by making staff run through hoops only to leave little in way of tips. "This isn't right!", "I wanted this not that!" They'd shriek.

    I remember servers would call out sick or dump their shifts on new unsuspecting servers.

    Replies: @Andrew Jackson

  3. And I’m sure today’s SJW’s would have been all over McDonald’s about these ads, had they been around back then when it was all goin’ down. Just like they would have marched with MLK. Had they been there.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @carol

    They will be complaining about today's McDonald's TV ads twenty years from now

    They always have a narrator with a deep African American voice, speaking current slang, but with perfect ennounciation ...like James Earl Jones trying to rapp with the youth..

    It's a very fine line.. they want to be hip and in touch with the trends...but a lot of the trends are not very uplifting...So they will always run the risk of being accused of exploitation.

  4. I’m lovin’ it!

    McDonald’s long slow slide down the diversity benefits hole that is. They went black, and they ain’t comin’ back.

    http://www.mcdonalds.com/365black/en/home.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ozymandias

    Subway has declined significantly as well, despite not actively appealing to blacks. Their most prominent ad campaign was the Jared guy thing, and it was an attempt to appeal to health conscious whites.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @countenance
    @Ozymandias

    That same article that Steve Sailer links to criticizes McDs for even doing 365BellCurve, because it hawks artery clogging "food" to blacks. Because racism.

  5. My wife is a waitress now and nothing has changed. The dread and despair waitresses feel when not knowing who get’s the honor of waiting on them. A few will surprise you and are appreciated, but it is sad that they stand out.

  6. EriK says:

    The President can drop a mean g when he wants to. Of course in a clean and articulate way.

    Slightly OT, a former black co-worker (and at one time briefly my boss) with a Phd (granted it was really an Edu.) used to celebrate Valentimes Day. No seriously, that’s the way she pronounced it. She was from Indianapolis originally, but had spent her schooling and work years in NY. She would be offended by dinnertimin now, but I bet she wouldn’t have been back in the day.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @EriK

    Did she attend a for-profit open access college? These cesspools are pumping out more PhDs and MBAs, etc. in a year than are produced by real colleges in a decade. Turn around and you are likely to bump into one. Probably teaching some diversity class or pseudo motivation seminar.

    Replies: @EriK

  7. jtgw says:

    This commenter says it all:

    “The purpose of an ad campaign isn’t to fit the sensitivity rubric of a professor’s race, class, and gender seminar 40 years into the future. Ads exist to sell product.

    The article omits the most important and interesting info: did these campaigns (no matter how clumsy) increase revenue in the demo? Given that McDonald’s has more locations, market share, and revenue by far than any other restarunt on Earth, I suspect the ads worked extraordinarily well.”

    • Replies: @Karl
    @jtgw

    >> Given that McDonald’s has more locations

    Try selling that story to Subway

  8. Fraught.

    “Employing “g-dropping” to appeal to African American audiences has a long history, from Aunt Jemima’s much-maligned “mammy” ads (which used lines like “Every bite is happyfyin’ light”) in the early 20th century to President Barack Obama’s controversial speech to the Congressional Black Caucus in 2011.”

    That’s really funny.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @C. Van Carter

    Hilarious! [instantly assuming serious countenance] But fraught. So, so fraught.

    These ads were blacks writing ad copy for blacks and were very successful. McDonald's opened franchises in black neighborhoods, with black franchisees, and could probably point to a significant portion of revenue generated having made its way into black hands. Now of course they've hit the wall of diminishing returns vis a vis black America, and their 365 Black thing is made a sinister brand by all those World Star McBeatdown videos. Fortunately for Brand Diversity, it's obscured by the company's bigger problems.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  9. Now here’s some historical pron for you. I believe it was someone here that mentioned the old P.F. Flyers shoe line called “Jigaboos.” Of course, that wasn’t a racist term at the time, it came to be one just as thug, vibrant, etc., or any other term used to describe blacks eventually becomes one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hkXdb81VU

    • Replies: @Will
    @Ozymandias

    The word used in the ad is "chickaboom," the rest you made up, and you, as you know, are pathetic.

    , @Bill B.
    @Ozymandias

    Eh?

    Thug comes from hindi meaning rogue and originally referred to a murderous sect of thieves who used to strangle their victims.

    The British imperial police eventually wiped them out in the 19th Century. There is a classic old police memoir of the anti-thugee campaign; I can't remember the title.

  10. Is it strange? To me it looks like liberals compensating for the failure of their negro-project.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @C. Van Carter

    Yes, they're searching for excuses now. The Magic One in the White House didn't change the world and now they need to blame it on racist cops, 40yr old McDonald's ads, the number of moons orbiting Jupiter or whatever.

    Steve is right though about the thrill kids get from "naughty" racism and sexism porn. Seinfeld recently pointed out how these are the new taboos, even if they're not understood:


    Seinfeld: Comedians Avoid Performing at Politically Correct Colleges
    "They just want to use these words. ‘That’s racist. That’s sexist. That’s prejudice.’ They don’t even know what they’re talking about"

    http://www.infowars.com/seinfeld-comedians-avoid-performing-at-politically-correct-colleges/

  11. I’m weirded out by the “blacks don’t tip” stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I’ve never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn’t take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes—one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn’t really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments—the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn’t matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one’s just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren’t cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It’s like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people—because those people aren’t restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it’s school/anthpological, it’s ok to watch what they’ve secretly wondered about.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    , @Sam Haysom
    @whorefinder

    For the record Pacman isn't a great example to use. The fight broke out when Pacman tried to reclaim the money he had used to make it rain. As someone who would always fish out the quarter I threw into a fountain I can identify with him and Veblen would have been proud I guess, but it certainly didn't demonstrate any big spending ways for old Pacman.

    It would be interesting to go to a fund raiser auction at a prominent black mega church and see if your theory is correct though.

    , @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    , @Jefferson
    @whorefinder

    Black people dominate the list of celebrities least likely to tip. Even Mixed Race types who are only partially Black like Tiger Woods and Dwayne Johnson for example are known for being bad tippers.

    The most generous celebrity tippers list are dominated by White guys like Johnny Depp and Russell Crowe.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @midtown
    @whorefinder

    For a year or so I delivered pizzas in a part of town that was probably about 60% black. The black/white difference was stark. Once, just for the sake of science, I kept a total based on race. The white average was $3.25; the black average was 72 cents. That was pretty normal. There were some blacks who tipped extravagantly well ($8-10) but they had to make up for the legions that didn't tip at all. Whether you had a good night or a bad one was entirely up to whether you got white customers. And it wasn't entirely socioeconomic; most very, very poor whites (trailer park residents) would still tip. To be fair, the tipping seemed to have gotten better toward the end -- not a lot, but fewer stiffs. I think some of them really didn't know you were supposed to tip a pizza driver (but most knew and just didn't).

    This area had several public housing projects in it and generally was low income, although there were some very affluent areas as well. But it got very busy around the first of the month with lots and lots of orders, but few tips. It also got very busy Feb-April, when the tax "refunds" came in. And after that, it died off. It was very depressing to know that so many people would burn through their tax returns within a couple months, and then be bankrupt again. Obviously they were getting through the rest of the year well enough, so they could save some of that. But no.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @whorefinder

    A friend once asked me if I knew why we needed WASPs....someone has to pay " full price"...add blacks to that list...nome sane?

    , @Auntie Analogue
    @whorefinder

    Well, whorefinder, your "when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive...with what I would expect" is dead wrong.

    Commenter (Comment No. 1) fredyetagain nailed it: blacks are stingy tippers, if they tip at all.

    Over the decades I waitressed in several restaurants and my experience is that the overwhelming majority of black diners either don't tip, or they leave a tip in an insulting low amount (under 50¢), and they often spread this out in small change all over the table top, forcing the server to hunt for each coin; or they leave their under-50¢ on a soiled plate - sometimes plopped or smushed into abandoned mashed potatoes or gravy or such.

    Further, in all my years of waitressing, not once did a table of Whites walk out without paying, while at least twice per weekend and at least once during the weekdays, black tables ordered everything that could fit on their tables, gobbled down as much as they could fit in their bellies, then waited for me to go to the kitchen to fetch another table's order, at which point they walked out without paying.

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, "Do you give free refills on soda?" And when you, the server, say, "There are no free refills of soda, only of iced tea," the blacks then order "Water with lemon," to which they add all of the sugar from their table's sweetener caddy, and then ask for even more sugar - or they just empty the sugar from the caddies on vacant nearby tables. Also, after being served their appetizers and again after being served their entrées, blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything - White diners rarely pull this kind of crap.

    Further, black diners steal silverware, glasses, ash trays, cloth napkins, china, sweeteners & sugar, entire sweetener caddies at rates vastly out of proportion to the rates at which White diners purloin such items.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered - and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of. They claim such absurdities as, "This isn't fettucine Alfredo the way my Mama make it," or that "I ain't payin' for this, 'cause it taste bad." If I had a buck for every time I had to summon my manager when "I ain't payin'" blacks pulled this move, I'd be rich. At least three times a week the manager had to call the police to come to prevent blacks from leaving without paying for what they'd ordered and had eaten most of.

    Moreover, black diners who pull all of these stunts are not just "teens," they're also the majority of chronologically adult blacks. Even Sunday brunch tables of black "church ladies" leave exceedingly stingy tips.

    I also cocktail waitressed and tended bar in nightclubs and bars whose clientele was multi-racial, and blacks seldom tip White cocktail waitresses or bartenders/barmaids. Black males do, however, feel free to paw, pinch and feel-up White cocktail waitresses - I got fed up with this and learned how to "accidentally" dump a tray of drinks on such black octopi: you should've been there to hear the black male low-&-cool on-the-make voice shift instantly into freak-out falsetto (I only retaliated thusly while working for a White male manager who understood what was going on and who more than had my back in every such instance, and who routinely barred ill-behave blacks from returning to the establishment).

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips - you're lucky if they leave you twelve percent. I can't speak for tipping behavior west of Missouri.

    Best tip I ever got came in 1995 from a White cowboy who was only visiting his friend (who was native to my city and was one of my regular customers) and seemed to have fallen in love with me at first sight. For a dinner of standard fare and two rounds of beers the cowboy left me sixty-five dollars and change. As I'd thought he'd made an error, I actually scooted out the door after him and only saw him as he began to motor off as passenger in his friend's car - the cowboy saw me, shook his head "no," and then nodded as he pointed at me, mouthing the words "No, that's for you!"

    Replies: @Twinkie, @whorefinder, @Beach

    , @anonymous
    @whorefinder

    In poorer cultures it is status seeking to be seen to spend alot of money. That is why poor people like clothes with huge labels, flashy cars, flashy jewelry, etc. Since tipping is not public except at gentleman's clubs, you would expect people from poorer cultures not to tip as well.

  12. You can safely ignore anything written by Gene Demby. Let’s see how long it takes him to lock his comments.

  13. The most fraught thing about that ad is that it shows an intact black nuclear family, and everyone is dressed well, albeit in goofy 70s fashions.

    I find it hilarious that McDonald’s zoomed in on the “no tipping” preferences of blacks and put it right there in the ad. And did blacks actually read ad copy in the 70s?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @peterike

    Also that McDonald's conspicuously didn't drop the "g" in "tipping".

  14. “Wow. Just. Wow.” = code for “I am a PC-styled moron, and I assume you are too.”

    Google image search for [McDonalds advertisements] shows they mostly don’t show people anymore, just the food.

    • Replies: @Hereward
    @Flemur

    "Wow just wow" is the 21st Century equivalent of "Well, I never!"

  15. In 1976, an advertisement could get away with portraying a relatively nuclear black family dining at the local McDonald’s. Not anymore. Today, the typical “family” eating at an urban McDonald’s consists of a Baby Mamma with her illegitimate brood of 2-3 kids donned in the ubiquitous gangsta attire and causing a ruckus.

    I also can’t remember the last time I actually sat down in a fast food restaurant to eat a meal. Considering the number of homeless people mulling about, drunk revellers, and World Star Hip Hop types itching for action, people just don’t really do that anymore. Especially after, say, 9 p.m. It’s something to avoid.

    Blacks today would also look at this advertisement and say that this particular family were “bougie”, especially the mother.

  16. The title of this post made me smile. Quite funny.

  17. “Fraught” is another contemporary SJW writer word of the month, like “trope” and “shameful” .

    • Replies: @Terrahawk
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    I have noticed that when the SJW's talk about anything old that is race related they act like Southern belles about to retire to their fainting couches.

    The whole reaction to things like this leave me with a troubled feeling. They show an utter lack of understanding of history, context, and critical thinking. Broad based thinking like that leads to very bad outcomes.

    Replies: @International Jew

  18. iSteveFan says:

    But the way many agencies went about this demonstrates how little they understood about their target demographic—and the results, like so many vintage ads, appear deeply misguided to modern audiences.

    Their target audience was 1976 Black America, not today’s. A lot of things would appear deeply misguided to modern audiences. Show old episodes of Leave it to Beaver or something similar that was targeted for a population that no longer exists, and see how much it resonates with much of today’s modern audiences. Just like SJWs judge historical figures by today’s standards, e.g. Andy Jackson, judging forty-year old commercials by contemporary speech rules is misguided at best.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    @iSteveFan

    Everything more than a generation back is a dark gulag to SJW's.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  19. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn’t work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    My guess would have been that, since people tip to reward good service, and given that it's easy for a white person to rub a black person the wrong way, it's natural that blacks would tend to undertip white servers. On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn't read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Alec Leamas

    , @whorefinder
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting idea. Black men do seem to shrink from challenge quickly and pound on observed servility just as quickly.

    , @black sea
    @Steve Sailer

    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip. I do remember college friends who worked at restaurants telling stories about black patrons ostentatiously presenting them with a tip at the end of meal for six or eight people with the words, "And this is for you."

    "This" turned out to be a five dollar bill.

    I also remember that all of them, including the most socially progressive ones, talked about how their spirits sank when they had to cover a table of black diners. On the other hand, I've read that Muhammad Ali is a famously big tipper, so there's that to consider.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Ed
    @Steve Sailer

    Nope bartenders at black clubs or black theme nights make little comparatively in tips. You'll often hear the DJ say, " don't forget your bartender!".

    I've witnessed a few testy exchanges between bartenders and black patrons who ran up bar bills and left no tips. Management tend give bartenders to do whatever they want in regards to customers compared to waiters.

    , @Ben H
    @Steve Sailer

    A person I know worked in a relatively upscale nightclub that certainly wasn't black but did have plenty of upscale black customers. For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule. I've seen black guys pay for drinks with $100 bill and not even tip a buck.

    Replies: @Justpassingby

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    U crazy! Black still do NOT tip bartenders!!!!

  20. @C. Van Carter
    Is it strange? To me it looks like liberals compensating for the failure of their negro-project.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Yes, they’re searching for excuses now. The Magic One in the White House didn’t change the world and now they need to blame it on racist cops, 40yr old McDonald’s ads, the number of moons orbiting Jupiter or whatever.

    Steve is right though about the thrill kids get from “naughty” racism and sexism porn. Seinfeld recently pointed out how these are the new taboos, even if they’re not understood:

    Seinfeld: Comedians Avoid Performing at Politically Correct Colleges
    “They just want to use these words. ‘That’s racist. That’s sexist. That’s prejudice.’ They don’t even know what they’re talking about”

    http://www.infowars.com/seinfeld-comedians-avoid-performing-at-politically-correct-colleges/

  21. @Ozymandias
    I'm lovin' it!

    McDonald's long slow slide down the diversity benefits hole that is. They went black, and they ain't comin' back.

    http://www.mcdonalds.com/365black/en/home.html

    Replies: @Anonymous, @countenance

    Subway has declined significantly as well, despite not actively appealing to blacks. Their most prominent ad campaign was the Jared guy thing, and it was an attempt to appeal to health conscious whites.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Anonymous

    The problem in both cases is competitors offering higher quality food.

  22. In a Google image search to gather the funniest photos of ‘blackface’ for my blog 2 days ago, no images of blackface appeared on sites I had heard of, except Wikipedia. Legitimate outlets shy away from using blakface graphics in any context.

    Why is this a red line when it is so important for The New York Times et al. to keep alive the memory of historical racism? Is a white man in black makeup the pictorial equivalent of the N-word?

  23. @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    You must not have ordered at a fast food restaurant in a while.

  24. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    For the record Pacman isn’t a great example to use. The fight broke out when Pacman tried to reclaim the money he had used to make it rain. As someone who would always fish out the quarter I threw into a fountain I can identify with him and Veblen would have been proud I guess, but it certainly didn’t demonstrate any big spending ways for old Pacman.

    It would be interesting to go to a fund raiser auction at a prominent black mega church and see if your theory is correct though.

  25. dan says:

    I should have emailed. but please comment on Charles Blow’s column ‘Black Dads are Doing Best of All’ in NYT. You can make short shrift of it much more quickly than I, and your take will be more interesting to boot.

    cheers.
    p.s. i couldn’t find a place to email you directly. apologies.

  26. @peterike
    The most fraught thing about that ad is that it shows an intact black nuclear family, and everyone is dressed well, albeit in goofy 70s fashions.

    I find it hilarious that McDonald's zoomed in on the "no tipping" preferences of blacks and put it right there in the ad. And did blacks actually read ad copy in the 70s?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Also that McDonald’s conspicuously didn’t drop the “g” in “tipping”.

  27. @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can’t earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers”

    …Or maybe they’re hungry and it’s quick?

  28. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    A close friend (who is also a partner in one of my businesses) and my brother both worked as waiters in college, at the same restaurant. The stories they told about waiting on blacks were absolutely nuts. With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all (assuming of course that the blacks in question didn't just do the old dine-n-dash). I could not have done that job for one single day, believe me.
    They and the other servers also used to have holiday (e.g., Easter, Mother's Day, etc.) big hat contests. They would all pony in some cash and whoever had the table with the lady with biggest, most ostentatious hat would get to keep all the money at the end of the shift. I really wish I could have seen some of those hats.

    Replies: @Tarrou, @Jonathan Silber, @ivvenalis

    Yeah, things haven’t changed. My SO tends bar in a black-majority town, and the tales are depressingly common. The slang is a bit funny too, the servers refer to blacks as “Canadians”, another group known for not tipping. As in “Good luck, you just got sat a six-top of Canadians!”. According to the staff there, blacks also send their food back to the kitchen at a rate at least five or ten times that of whites. FWIW, the second worst group is middle-aged white women in groups.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Tarrou

    I live across the river from Canada. There is a running conversation on talk radio about how poorly Canadians tip, ten percent seems to be the upper limit of their tips. I knew a gay construction worker who was the live in boyfriend of a surgeon. The doctor gave him a Cadillac Seville, then the top of the line Caddy, for his birthday. My wife and I refer to gays as Sevilles.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @Brutusale
    @Tarrou

    I have friends in the industry, and the term "Canadians" applied to black customers is a common usage. In restaurants on the Gulf Coast of Florida, one of the first things waitstaff try to glean is whether or not you're a real, no-tip Canadian.

    My poor nephew learned his lesson pretty quickly. The summer between his high school graduation and college he was slinging lobsters at a place on the Maine coast and making some serious coin in tips. Then he took a job at an Outback just outside Boston to make a few bucks while attending college in the city. His second table was an 8-top of blacks, whereupon he proceeded to listen to complaints about the steaks and ran around providing a steady stream of sugar water refills, all for a tip of ZERO.

    He said he looked around the restaurant, saw its demographic split, then walked into the kitchen and tossed his apron to the manager on the way out the back door.

    Replies: @Ed

    , @Moderate Mom
    @Tarrou

    Your SO must tend bar in Memphis, because the stories of black customers is legend here. Every server and bartender in town cheered when the COGIC convention departed for St. Louis. They hated having to serve tables knowing that there would be no tip and that they would constantly bitch that the food wasn't prepared correctly and then expect their meal to be comped. After they had devoured 90% of the food on the plate.

  29. So little progress. Nearly 40 years later and McDonald’s is still dropping g’s.

    I blame the Germans.

    Wikipedia:

    i’m lovin’ it is a branding campaign by McDonald’s Corporation. It was created by Heye & Partner, McDonald’s agency based in Unterhaching, Germany, near Munich, and a member of the DDB Worldwide Communications Group, Inc. It was the company’s first global advertising campaign and was launched in Munich, Germany on September 2, 2003, under the German title ich liebe es.

  30. This morning I finished watching the movie Caesar and Cleopatra, a 1945 British movie starring Claude Rains and Vivian Leigh.

    The movie included several scenes with a big, black, effeminate slave in Cleopatra’s court. I think he was supposed to be a eunuch. This character always was being frightened by something, and he always reacted by cowering, screaming and running away.

    He didn’t scream feets, don’t fail me now!, but that was the idea.

    So, this was a two-fer stereotype of blacks and homosexuals.

    Many of the characters in Cleopatra’s court seemed to be gay in this movie. They included even Cleopatra’s younger brother (and husband), Ptolemey, who was an effeminate boy, about 12 years old.

    I had the impression that the movie was full of inside jokes for British homosexuals during the WWII years.

  31. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/

    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.

    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper (“Don’t be that cheap customer”). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @Twinkie

    My late mother-in-law said that her Midwest tipping was 'one person, a quarter, two people, two quarters'. That became more generous when she moved west.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    "Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant."

    Twinkie, You're supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That's not being stingy, it's following traditional tipping etiquette.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    "And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings."

    You're obviously a wonderful human being. :)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Curle
    @Twinkie

    Good comment.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Simon in London
    @Twinkie

    American tipping culture makes me not want to go to the US. It seems to have inflated to the point now where it's supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.

    Replies: @David, @Andrew Jackson

    , @Deduction
    @Twinkie

    I'm British and find tipping weird. Yes, I'll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here's an idea restaurant owners - tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge....or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    Replies: @disambiguated, @International Jew, @Matra, @dfordoom

    , @ben tillman
    @Twinkie


    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example).
     
    That makes them good tippers since that's the proper way to tip.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  32. @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    Your comment reminded me of how black fast food employees combine “how may I help you” and “may I take your order?” into one run-on. This is how I’m almost always greeted at fast food restaurants:

    “Welcome to McDonald’s, how may I take your order?”

    Accurately, please.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Sparkling Wiggle

    I've heard that too. I think it might be something they're taught to say, though.

  33. Show old episodes of Leave it to Beaver or something similar that was targeted for a population that no longer exists, and see how much it resonates with much of today’s modern audiences.

    I dunno. Reruns of Sanford and Son leaving me gasping for air after laughing so hard. Red Foxx was a comic genius. Reruns of Amos ‘n’ Andy would be hugely profitable too.

    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    @Jacobite

    "Reruns of Amos ‘n’ Andy would be hugely profitable too."

    In the very early 90's I dated a young lady whose mom had acquired (on VHS) some of the old Amos n Andy episodes which she had watched as a young girl. We watched a few episodes together and I'll never forget the sheepish, guilty looks she would give us as Kingfish (really the show's major character, based on the episodes I saw) would mispronounce/misuse fancy words in his exaggerated minstrel show accent - and then the evident relief on her face when she saw us laughing our heads off. Yes, I too think the shows would be a hit, creating lots of wowjustwow-ing opportunities for the SJWs.

  34. @iSteveFan

    But the way many agencies went about this demonstrates how little they understood about their target demographic—and the results, like so many vintage ads, appear deeply misguided to modern audiences.
     
    Their target audience was 1976 Black America, not today's. A lot of things would appear deeply misguided to modern audiences. Show old episodes of Leave it to Beaver or something similar that was targeted for a population that no longer exists, and see how much it resonates with much of today's modern audiences. Just like SJWs judge historical figures by today's standards, e.g. Andy Jackson, judging forty-year old commercials by contemporary speech rules is misguided at best.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

    Everything more than a generation back is a dark gulag to SJW’s.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    Try 1/2 a generation.

  35. When Barack Obama speaks to a Keepin’ It Real audience, doesn’t he drop his terminal Gs?

    Wow. Just. Wow.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Jonathan Silber

    No, the "wow, just wow" is that you would (a) notice that and (b) remark on it.

  36. Cinematic Titanic had some fun with that once, when they were riffing on a Blaxploitation film called East Meets Watts. A white cop drops the n-word, and one of them did a GREAT spit-take…

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @The Only Catholic Unionist


    Cinematic Titanic had some fun with that once, when they were riffing on a Blaxploitation film called East Meets Watts.
     
    That was a great one. I saw CT live at the Lisner Auditorium in 2011.
  37. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    A close friend (who is also a partner in one of my businesses) and my brother both worked as waiters in college, at the same restaurant. The stories they told about waiting on blacks were absolutely nuts. With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all (assuming of course that the blacks in question didn't just do the old dine-n-dash). I could not have done that job for one single day, believe me.
    They and the other servers also used to have holiday (e.g., Easter, Mother's Day, etc.) big hat contests. They would all pony in some cash and whoever had the table with the lady with biggest, most ostentatious hat would get to keep all the money at the end of the shift. I really wish I could have seen some of those hats.

    Replies: @Tarrou, @Jonathan Silber, @ivvenalis

    With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all…

    My experience waiting tables, too.

    Also, I tended bar for a while at a joint in Chicago that was frequented by black members of the local professional sports teams. Those guys would drink expensive cognac and tip change or nothing at all.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Jonathan Silber

    We call Scottie "No tippin Pippen" around here. Wait..."tippin '"??????? Wow just wow.

  38. Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking:

    “What Jimmy didn’t know was that Rob was sick, a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious – a sickness of the mind”.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rob McX


    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.
     
    I'm quite sure that the classic "I want to be a woman" bit from Monty Python's Life of Brian has moved into the crimethink category.It is, after all, shockingly heteronormative:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA

    Replies: @Unladen Swallow

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Rob McX


    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking
     
    10x better with a riff trax:

    Opie and Anthony - Boys Beware - 60s PSA 1/2
    Opie and Anthony - Boys Beware - 60s PSA 2/2
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Rob McX

    And another one with commentary:
    Opie & Anthony Old PSA Videos

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Rob McX

    And the complementary "Girls Beware" verson. It has three tragic scenarios: murder, rape, and pregnant by boyfriend.

    Girls Beware - 1961 Social Guidance / Educational Film for Teenagers - Val73TV

  39. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    My guess would have been that, since people tip to reward good service, and given that it’s easy for a white person to rub a black person the wrong way, it’s natural that blacks would tend to undertip white servers. On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn’t read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @International Jew


    On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn’t read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.
     
    Blacks are worse tippers than whites controlling for variables such as income and education as well as server quality and server *race.* According to the Washington Post article I quoted earlier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/), about half of the black-white tipping difference can be explained by the following expectation gap:

    Our research indicates that black people tip less because they believe servers expect lower tips, and they underestimate the tip amounts that others leave. Whereas roughly 70 percent of whites identify the customary or expected restaurant tip to fall within 15-20 percent of the bill, only about 35 percent of blacks do. In addition, black respondents, on average, believe that the typical restaurant customer tips about 13.4 percent of the bill, while whites believe that the typical restaurant customer tips about 14.5 percent. Together, these differences in perceptions of “what is expected and typical” explain about half of the black-white difference in tipping.
     
    Of course, there is the other half of that gap:

    As important as public awareness campaigns about the restaurant tipping norm are, they are likely to only reduce the black-white difference in tipping by one-half. The complete elimination of this tipping difference requires a more complete understanding of its causes.

    To date, these additional causes remain elusive. Nevertheless, what we do know is that this interracial tipping difference exists – as do the negative, downstream effects of such differences: server prejudices and discriminatory behaviors. Failing to acknowledge and openly discuss this issue will only perpetuate a status quo that harms businesses and consumers alike.
     
    Interestingly, black servers receive lower tips from both white and black customers: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/soin.12056/abstract

    Our results indicate that both white and black restaurant customers discriminate against black servers by tipping them less than their white co-workers. Importantly, we find no evidence that this black tip penalty is the result of inter-racial differences in service skills possessed by black and white servers.
     
    , @Alec Leamas
    @International Jew

    I think it's more a confluence of two phenomena - the first is poor budgeting and overspending, which leaves little left for tipping, and the second is what I call "whitey on the hook" which is a public situation where blacks feel empowered to passively aggressively haze whites as an outlet for their racial resentments. Most often I've experienced it with black civil servants and the like who do things like ostentatiously wasting time while you're waiting for service, etc. In the restaurant/waiter context it can be expressed by running the waiter ragged with constant requests/demands, complaints, etc.

  40. That McDonalds ad was just being authentic in the decade of Shaft.

    • Replies: @Bob
    @Anon

    Hush yo' mouth!

  41. off/on topic:

    TNC uses all the standard tropes in his new posting:

    In the midst of such debates it is customary for pundits, politicians, and writers like me to sally forth with numbers to demonstrate the breadth and width of the great American carceral state.

    But what the numbers can’t convey is what the justice system does to the individual black body.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/the-brief-and-tragic-life-of-kalief-browder/395156/

    Carceral state.Black body.Always interesting to see how any discussion of the criminal justice system brings out TNC’s inner Foucault…..

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @syonredux

    Coates must be kicking himself that Applebaum beat him to writing this: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/troubled-waters-in-mckinney-texas/395150/?utm_source=SFTwitter

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Clifford Brown

    , @Bad memories
    @syonredux

    Of course it has nothing to do with the lack of civilizing influences from Roman times.

    Paging Peter Frost.

    , @ross
    @syonredux

    Aren't "width" and "breadth" the same thing? Is the Atlantic too cheap to pay for an editor for America's most foremost black intellectual?

    Replies: @Alfa158

  42. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    Black people dominate the list of celebrities least likely to tip. Even Mixed Race types who are only partially Black like Tiger Woods and Dwayne Johnson for example are known for being bad tippers.

    The most generous celebrity tippers list are dominated by White guys like Johnny Depp and Russell Crowe.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jefferson

    Tiger's archrival Phil Mickelson routinely leaves a $100 bill as a tip on a $20 breakfast tab. But I'd bet on Tiger to hold on to his money through old age more than I'd bet on Phil. (Of course, Phil would probably want to get it on this wager.)

  43. @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    African-Americans loves them some buttery seafood. I know, I waited tables at a big chain seafood place (rhymes w/ Dead Mobster) while in college and it’s not exactly an inexpensive restaurant. But tipping? Ha! From blacks, it was a rarity, or meager when it did occur, like a $2 tip on $100 check.

    Get your own damn cheddar cheese biscuits!
    That’s all I have to say now.

  44. There are two dozen or so historical sexist ads that are rehashed as clickbait over and over again.

    http://www.mommyish.com/2013/11/26/10-most-sexist-vintage-ads/

  45. Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    Sure does. I’d like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I’ll come out with it: the private clubs I’m familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count ’em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn’t know; I’ve been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @International Jew

    It could be that they were "progressive" clubs. If I remember correctly, I was in Lao PDR when I was told that the communists had ended tipping as it was associated with colonialism... Or I might be remembering George Orwell writing about the Spanish civil war... Either way, it is true that tipping is connected with servitude.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Deduction

    , @Matra
    @International Jew

    My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    I'll guess because it appears low brow and tacky.

    Replies: @Jacobite

    , @Mike
    @International Jew

    Having two kids that work at a country club, I can tell you the no tipping rule is due, mainly, to compensation law. My kids work at an hourly scale slightly above minimum wage. Your typical tipped position, such as a waiter, is only paid $2.13 per hour.

    Also, in the case of this country club, and others I'm pretty sure, there is no cash used on the premises. This helps keeps non-members away. You pay for everything on your account and settle up at the end of the month.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Jacobite, @Forbes

    , @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    , @Deckin
    @International Jew

    Many country clubs include a tip on the member's monthly bill.

    , @Moderate Mom
    @International Jew

    Our family belongs to a country club and eat there often. A 20% service charge (tip) is added to any food or bar tab automatically.

  46. @Rob McX
    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking:

    "What Jimmy didn't know was that Rob was sick, a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious - a sickness of the mind".

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    I’m quite sure that the classic “I want to be a woman” bit from Monty Python’s Life of Brian has moved into the crimethink category.It is, after all, shockingly heteronormative:

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    @syonredux

    I don't think so, yet, but it might because far fewer people in their teens and twenties know who or what Monty Python is today. BTW, Clint Eastwood got in trouble for making fun of you know who at the Spike Guy's Choice Awards, apparently the offending material will be excised from all the rebroadcasts according to Spike TV's senior vice president, you know the guy whose network caters to straight men. This controversy was compared to editing out jokes about the now deceased Paul Walker during a Justin Bieber roast that aired on Spike according to our social betters at Variety magazine.

  47. @syonredux
    off/on topic:

    TNC uses all the standard tropes in his new posting:

    In the midst of such debates it is customary for pundits, politicians, and writers like me to sally forth with numbers to demonstrate the breadth and width of the great American carceral state.
     

    But what the numbers can’t convey is what the justice system does to the individual black body.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/the-brief-and-tragic-life-of-kalief-browder/395156/


    Carceral state.Black body.Always interesting to see how any discussion of the criminal justice system brings out TNC's inner Foucault.....

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Bad memories, @ross

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @Dave Pinsen

    From the article in your link, "In 2009, McKinney was forced to settle a lawsuit alleging that it was blocking the development of affordable housing suitable for tenants with Section 8 vouchers in the more affluent western portion of the city. "

    Do the affluent portions of NY, Boston, SF, etc, etc, ever get called out on blocking Section 8 housing?

    Replies: @Jacobite

    , @Clifford Brown
    @Dave Pinsen

    Yoni Appelbaum, who wrote the magnum opus in The Atlantic on the racialized history of American community pools, is Ta-Nehisi Coates' protege. Allegedly, Coates pulled "Cynic" Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates' articles. Not sure I believe the story completely in light of how much TNC seems to limit open debate on his articles.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/07/152205683/from-commenter-to-columnist-the-atlantics-cynic

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @PB and J, @International Jew

  48. @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    Over the last ten years I’ve noticed that the black response to, “may I take your order?” is invariably “yeah, lemme getta …” However many sub-varieties of U.S. blacks there are, this is common to all.

  49. One of the stranger developments of the last decade or two is the emergence of a widespread public taste for historical racism porn: the younger generation gets titillated in a quasi-sexual fashion by depictions of things in the past that set off their Warning: Problematic brain alarms.

    Maybe all these super smart, switched-on and and socially conscious kiddies are going to remember these days and write a whole bunch of witty comedies of manners? Elaborate social rules and taboos can be the fuel for great theatre. Will they have a light touch like Moliere and Wilde or be darkly funny like Harold Pinter? Somewhere out there is a SJW tapping lines of dialogue into his (“or HER!!!!”) iPhone that will set an intellectual fire under us all. I can just feel it.

    “Muriel Blackwood and Doreen Busby have never recovered from your insane and corrosive sexual absolutism”

    No Man’s Land by Harold Pinter:

    Lena Dunham and Mattress Girl should do an updated version of that. Teach those two dead White males how its done.

  50. I don’t know anything about black tips in restaurants, but I was a cab driver in New York City (mostly in Manhattan) in the early 1970s, and blacks tipped much better than other people. For several months I kept a written record of every tip I received by race and by percent of the fare. Blacks tipped about 50% (really). The average was about 20%. East Asians were the worst tippers.

    I think blacks did it because most cab drivers refused to pick up blacks, so when somebody did pick them up, they were grateful and wanted to encourage the driver. Most of these black riders were people in their 30s or older going home from work late at night.

    The day I started work, an older black driver in the garage, a man in his 60s, told me, “Don’t pick up black people. It’s dangerous. Even if they look all right, they are probably going home to a black neighborhood and you don’t want to be there.” I’m white, he was black. I picked up blacks, he didn’t.

    • Replies: @ricpic
    @Ashkenazi1687

    Well, that's very noble of you, that you picked up blacks contrary to the black driver's advice. Noble and lucky, I might add. You didn't get mugged by your black customers, that's the lucky part. Plain dumb luck. You engaged in high risk behavior, didn't listen to the wise advice of a black driver who almost certainly had been mugged and robbed by blacks, and you got away with it. And you can barely keep from congratulating yourself on your noble attitude toward blacks. What a TOTAL FOOL.

    , @Anonymous
    @Ashkenazi1687

    25 years taxi experience will testify in re black taxi tipping...they do not tip well...if one is extremely personable and makes several showy gestures of benevolence, one can sometimes extract an okay tip BUT YEAH YOU REALLY GOT TO PRANCE...I am extremely personable, my other friends who were drivers reported far less success

  51. @syonredux
    off/on topic:

    TNC uses all the standard tropes in his new posting:

    In the midst of such debates it is customary for pundits, politicians, and writers like me to sally forth with numbers to demonstrate the breadth and width of the great American carceral state.
     

    But what the numbers can’t convey is what the justice system does to the individual black body.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/the-brief-and-tragic-life-of-kalief-browder/395156/


    Carceral state.Black body.Always interesting to see how any discussion of the criminal justice system brings out TNC's inner Foucault.....

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Bad memories, @ross

    Of course it has nothing to do with the lack of civilizing influences from Roman times.

    Paging Peter Frost.

  52. @syonredux
    off/on topic:

    TNC uses all the standard tropes in his new posting:

    In the midst of such debates it is customary for pundits, politicians, and writers like me to sally forth with numbers to demonstrate the breadth and width of the great American carceral state.
     

    But what the numbers can’t convey is what the justice system does to the individual black body.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/the-brief-and-tragic-life-of-kalief-browder/395156/


    Carceral state.Black body.Always interesting to see how any discussion of the criminal justice system brings out TNC's inner Foucault.....

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Bad memories, @ross

    Aren’t “width” and “breadth” the same thing? Is the Atlantic too cheap to pay for an editor for America’s most foremost black intellectual?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @ross

    "Most foremost" heh, I see what you did there.

  53. @Jefferson
    @whorefinder

    Black people dominate the list of celebrities least likely to tip. Even Mixed Race types who are only partially Black like Tiger Woods and Dwayne Johnson for example are known for being bad tippers.

    The most generous celebrity tippers list are dominated by White guys like Johnny Depp and Russell Crowe.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Tiger’s archrival Phil Mickelson routinely leaves a $100 bill as a tip on a $20 breakfast tab. But I’d bet on Tiger to hold on to his money through old age more than I’d bet on Phil. (Of course, Phil would probably want to get it on this wager.)

  54. @Anonymous
    @Ozymandias

    Subway has declined significantly as well, despite not actively appealing to blacks. Their most prominent ad campaign was the Jared guy thing, and it was an attempt to appeal to health conscious whites.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    The problem in both cases is competitors offering higher quality food.

  55. Perhaps in 25 years* today’s supposedly “racist” remarks will be commonplace. They may lose their power to shock or even just titillate in the same way that sexual references in popular culture lost theirs.

    *Sounding like Sandra Day O’Connor is an accident.

  56. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Cinematic Titanic had some fun with that once, when they were riffing on a Blaxploitation film called East Meets Watts. A white cop drops the n-word, and one of them did a GREAT spit-take...

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    Cinematic Titanic had some fun with that once, when they were riffing on a Blaxploitation film called East Meets Watts.

    That was a great one. I saw CT live at the Lisner Auditorium in 2011.

  57. Tipping requires empathy. Every study out there says blacks have low levels of empathy. Spending on yourself like a drunk sailor on shore leave, on the other hand, reeks of lack of impulse control. Blacks have low impulse control, drunk or otherwise.

    Probably most revealing was a segment in the British car show “Top Gear” where the host reviewed a Cadillac Escalade, pretty much concluded it was crap (in every meaningful way in terms of engineering, performance, quality compared to European SUVs), and then went out on a ride in the Escalade with a British black celebrity, hoping the black celebrity could clue him in on why the Escalade was so popular among blacks. The black celebrity was confused. Why wouldn’t one want the Escalade? It was big and ostentatious–no other black who saw you in it could not but be impressed. Most revealing, the black celebrity said that a black guy wouldn’t hesitate to purchase the Escalade even though he still lived with his mother, could only afford to fill it with gasoline more or less one gallon at a time, etc. None of that mattered. What mattered was that the black guy had the Escalade and every one he knew knew it.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @OsRazor

    During the school year you see a lot of Escalades at dropoff at Upper East Side private schools. I don't see black students getting out of them.

    Replies: @J, @Forbes

    , @Lot
    @OsRazor

    You cannot compare the Escalade to Euro makes. It is bigger inside than every single Euro brand SUV sold in the USA, and is on a truck rather than sedan frame. Of course, being much bigger, it will be less fun to drive.

    , @SEATAF
    @OsRazor

    To what studies do you refer, pray?

  58. @Jacobite

    Show old episodes of Leave it to Beaver or something similar that was targeted for a population that no longer exists, and see how much it resonates with much of today’s modern audiences.
     
    I dunno. Reruns of Sanford and Son leaving me gasping for air after laughing so hard. Red Foxx was a comic genius. Reruns of Amos 'n' Andy would be hugely profitable too.

    Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    “Reruns of Amos ‘n’ Andy would be hugely profitable too.”

    In the very early 90’s I dated a young lady whose mom had acquired (on VHS) some of the old Amos n Andy episodes which she had watched as a young girl. We watched a few episodes together and I’ll never forget the sheepish, guilty looks she would give us as Kingfish (really the show’s major character, based on the episodes I saw) would mispronounce/misuse fancy words in his exaggerated minstrel show accent – and then the evident relief on her face when she saw us laughing our heads off. Yes, I too think the shows would be a hit, creating lots of wowjustwow-ing opportunities for the SJWs.

  59. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    For a year or so I delivered pizzas in a part of town that was probably about 60% black. The black/white difference was stark. Once, just for the sake of science, I kept a total based on race. The white average was $3.25; the black average was 72 cents. That was pretty normal. There were some blacks who tipped extravagantly well ($8-10) but they had to make up for the legions that didn’t tip at all. Whether you had a good night or a bad one was entirely up to whether you got white customers. And it wasn’t entirely socioeconomic; most very, very poor whites (trailer park residents) would still tip. To be fair, the tipping seemed to have gotten better toward the end — not a lot, but fewer stiffs. I think some of them really didn’t know you were supposed to tip a pizza driver (but most knew and just didn’t).

    This area had several public housing projects in it and generally was low income, although there were some very affluent areas as well. But it got very busy around the first of the month with lots and lots of orders, but few tips. It also got very busy Feb-April, when the tax “refunds” came in. And after that, it died off. It was very depressing to know that so many people would burn through their tax returns within a couple months, and then be bankrupt again. Obviously they were getting through the rest of the year well enough, so they could save some of that. But no.

  60. iSteveFan says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    @syonredux

    Coates must be kicking himself that Applebaum beat him to writing this: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/troubled-waters-in-mckinney-texas/395150/?utm_source=SFTwitter

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Clifford Brown

    From the article in your link, “In 2009, McKinney was forced to settle a lawsuit alleging that it was blocking the development of affordable housing suitable for tenants with Section 8 vouchers in the more affluent western portion of the city. “

    Do the affluent portions of NY, Boston, SF, etc, etc, ever get called out on blocking Section 8 housing?

    • Replies: @Jacobite
    @iSteveFan

    I know it is a big issue in NYC inner suburbs like Rye and Scarsdale with the state pressuring them for more low income housing.

  61. I’m confused. Do black agencies have agency, or not?

  62. @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    My guess would have been that, since people tip to reward good service, and given that it's easy for a white person to rub a black person the wrong way, it's natural that blacks would tend to undertip white servers. On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn't read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Alec Leamas

    On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn’t read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.

    Blacks are worse tippers than whites controlling for variables such as income and education as well as server quality and server *race.* According to the Washington Post article I quoted earlier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/), about half of the black-white tipping difference can be explained by the following expectation gap:

    Our research indicates that black people tip less because they believe servers expect lower tips, and they underestimate the tip amounts that others leave. Whereas roughly 70 percent of whites identify the customary or expected restaurant tip to fall within 15-20 percent of the bill, only about 35 percent of blacks do. In addition, black respondents, on average, believe that the typical restaurant customer tips about 13.4 percent of the bill, while whites believe that the typical restaurant customer tips about 14.5 percent. Together, these differences in perceptions of “what is expected and typical” explain about half of the black-white difference in tipping.

    Of course, there is the other half of that gap:

    As important as public awareness campaigns about the restaurant tipping norm are, they are likely to only reduce the black-white difference in tipping by one-half. The complete elimination of this tipping difference requires a more complete understanding of its causes.

    To date, these additional causes remain elusive. Nevertheless, what we do know is that this interracial tipping difference exists – as do the negative, downstream effects of such differences: server prejudices and discriminatory behaviors. Failing to acknowledge and openly discuss this issue will only perpetuate a status quo that harms businesses and consumers alike.

    Interestingly, black servers receive lower tips from both white and black customers: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/soin.12056/abstract

    Our results indicate that both white and black restaurant customers discriminate against black servers by tipping them less than their white co-workers. Importantly, we find no evidence that this black tip penalty is the result of inter-racial differences in service skills possessed by black and white servers.

  63. Marty [AKA "mel belli"] says:

    Some stalwarts here may remember the Quincy Jones tipping story told to me by the former captain at Ernie’s, one of San Francisco’s premier continental restaurants of yesteryear. It was 1982, and the party was Jones, Steven Spielberg and a NYT reporter. They were discussing casting for Godfather III. The bill was around $300, and Spielberg was about to leave the tip. Jones stopped him, saying, “I’ll take care of him,” and slipping something into my friend’s hand. Turned out to be a single dolkar bill.

  64. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    A close friend (who is also a partner in one of my businesses) and my brother both worked as waiters in college, at the same restaurant. The stories they told about waiting on blacks were absolutely nuts. With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all (assuming of course that the blacks in question didn't just do the old dine-n-dash). I could not have done that job for one single day, believe me.
    They and the other servers also used to have holiday (e.g., Easter, Mother's Day, etc.) big hat contests. They would all pony in some cash and whoever had the table with the lady with biggest, most ostentatious hat would get to keep all the money at the end of the shift. I really wish I could have seen some of those hats.

    Replies: @Tarrou, @Jonathan Silber, @ivvenalis

    The elaborate hats worn by black church ladies were a running joke in the (very tame) newspaper comic strip “Curtis”.

  65. @Sparkling Wiggle
    @advancedatheist

    Your comment reminded me of how black fast food employees combine "how may I help you" and "may I take your order?" into one run-on. This is how I'm almost always greeted at fast food restaurants:

    "Welcome to McDonald's, how may I take your order?"

    Accurately, please.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I’ve heard that too. I think it might be something they’re taught to say, though.

  66. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    My late mother-in-law said that her Midwest tipping was ‘one person, a quarter, two people, two quarters’. That became more generous when she moved west.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Ivy

    I hope that story was not literal.

    Replies: @Ivy

  67. @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    It could be that they were “progressive” clubs. If I remember correctly, I was in Lao PDR when I was told that the communists had ended tipping as it was associated with colonialism… Or I might be remembering George Orwell writing about the Spanish civil war… Either way, it is true that tipping is connected with servitude.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    I just checked... I was remembering Homage to Catalonia...

    https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=8Y6yAAAAQBAJ

    Search "tips" if you want...

    , @Deduction
    @Chrisnonymous

    Yes.

    In my mind, you tip people lower than you. Like a homeless man who helps carry your bag at an Indian train station.

    You pay your equals. Like a taxi driver, or a waiter or anyone else with a job.

    American tipping culture is so obnoxious, so ostentatious.

  68. The people who are shocked by those 1976 vintage McDonalds ads have clearly never seen a 2015 vintage ad for Popeye’s Chicken.

  69. @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    I’ll guess because it appears low brow and tacky.

    • Replies: @Jacobite
    @Matra

    The members demand it. I wish the cheap bastards that run restaurants in America would follow the Europeans and just include the gratuity on the bill. I guess they don't want the bookkeeping hassle.

    I love English pubs because there is no tipping. Servers should be paid a living wage to begin with.

  70. @Jonathan Silber
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    With some exceptions, having a black at your table meant that you were going to be run ragged, and then under-tipped or not tipped at all...

    My experience waiting tables, too.

    Also, I tended bar for a while at a joint in Chicago that was frequented by black members of the local professional sports teams. Those guys would drink expensive cognac and tip change or nothing at all.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    We call Scottie “No tippin Pippen” around here. Wait…”tippin ‘”??????? Wow just wow.

  71. @C. Van Carter
    Fraught.

    "Employing “g-dropping” to appeal to African American audiences has a long history, from Aunt Jemima’s much-maligned “mammy” ads (which used lines like “Every bite is happyfyin’ light”) in the early 20th century to President Barack Obama’s controversial speech to the Congressional Black Caucus in 2011."

    That's really funny.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale

    Hilarious! [instantly assuming serious countenance] But fraught. So, so fraught.

    These ads were blacks writing ad copy for blacks and were very successful. McDonald’s opened franchises in black neighborhoods, with black franchisees, and could probably point to a significant portion of revenue generated having made its way into black hands. Now of course they’ve hit the wall of diminishing returns vis a vis black America, and their 365 Black thing is made a sinister brand by all those World Star McBeatdown videos. Fortunately for Brand Diversity, it’s obscured by the company’s bigger problems.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Dennis Dale

    I'm in Canada, so I wasn't even aware that McDonalds is heavily associated with Blacks in the US.

    I visited a location in New York a few years ago...staffed heavily by blacks, the service was shockingly surly. I just assumed it was a New York thing.

    I'm surprised the 'Canadian Observer' had such negative feeling towards MCD's. I've frequented the place 'after 9' many, many times without incident.

    The outlet near my home (in toronto) is pretty multicultural... But the service is pleasant..no problems to speak of.

    Even the black ladies are polite and friendly. (I think they would be viewed as freaks if they worked at a New York franchise!)

  72. Shotgun Football

    “It’s reasonable to ask if this sort of discursive world is one any sane citizen would choose to live in. Democratic culture—indeed, cultural activity of any kind—thrives on establishing standards and drawing distinctions; they furnish the elemental terms of debate for other equally crucial distinctions in civic life, beginning with the demarcation of the public and private spheres that Shirky announces the web has transformed into a dead letter.

    By contrast, to hail a cascade of unrefereed digital content as a breakthrough in creativity and critical thought is roughly akin to greeting news of a massive national egg recall by laying off the country’s food inspectors. This contradiction should be obvious in an age where the best-known persecutor of the media mainstream—excuse me, lamestream—is one Sarah Palin, who has also cannily harnessed the social media revolution to a classic one-to-many political broadcasting concern. (One might also gingerly suggest that Shirky’s own blogging output could have benefited from a healthy dose of filtration, given the sexist character of his now notorious, if forthrightly titled, blog offering “A Rant About Women.”)”
    http://www.thenation.com/article/158974/accelerated-grimace-cyber-utopianism

    All you need is a shotgun and a pigskin. The game is unrefereed and unbroadcast. Leggo of my Eggo!

  73. @Chrisnonymous
    @International Jew

    It could be that they were "progressive" clubs. If I remember correctly, I was in Lao PDR when I was told that the communists had ended tipping as it was associated with colonialism... Or I might be remembering George Orwell writing about the Spanish civil war... Either way, it is true that tipping is connected with servitude.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Deduction

    I just checked… I was remembering Homage to Catalonia…

    https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=8Y6yAAAAQBAJ

    Search “tips” if you want…

  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @carol
    And I'm sure today's SJW's would have been all over McDonald's about these ads, had they been around back then when it was all goin' down. Just like they would have marched with MLK. Had they been there.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They will be complaining about today’s McDonald’s TV ads twenty years from now

    They always have a narrator with a deep African American voice, speaking current slang, but with perfect ennounciation …like James Earl Jones trying to rapp with the youth..

    It’s a very fine line.. they want to be hip and in touch with the trends…but a lot of the trends are not very uplifting…So they will always run the risk of being accused of exploitation.

  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dennis Dale
    @C. Van Carter

    Hilarious! [instantly assuming serious countenance] But fraught. So, so fraught.

    These ads were blacks writing ad copy for blacks and were very successful. McDonald's opened franchises in black neighborhoods, with black franchisees, and could probably point to a significant portion of revenue generated having made its way into black hands. Now of course they've hit the wall of diminishing returns vis a vis black America, and their 365 Black thing is made a sinister brand by all those World Star McBeatdown videos. Fortunately for Brand Diversity, it's obscured by the company's bigger problems.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’m in Canada, so I wasn’t even aware that McDonalds is heavily associated with Blacks in the US.

    I visited a location in New York a few years ago…staffed heavily by blacks, the service was shockingly surly. I just assumed it was a New York thing.

    I’m surprised the ‘Canadian Observer’ had such negative feeling towards MCD’s. I’ve frequented the place ‘after 9’ many, many times without incident.

    The outlet near my home (in toronto) is pretty multicultural… But the service is pleasant..no problems to speak of.

    Even the black ladies are polite and friendly. (I think they would be viewed as freaks if they worked at a New York franchise!)

  76. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    A friend once asked me if I knew why we needed WASPs….someone has to pay ” full price”…add blacks to that list…nome sane?

  77. “Twinkie says:

    And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.”

    As Dave Barry wrote: “A man who is nice to you, and not nice to the waitress, is not a nice man.”

    “Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example).”

    I see nothing wrong with calculating the tip from the pre-tax amount, if it is calculated generously, although I have taken to mostly just calculating it from the total.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Mr. Anon

    Nice guys finish last. Chics dig jerks. And Chechens.

  78. @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    Well, whorefinder, your “when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive…with what I would expect” is dead wrong.

    Commenter (Comment No. 1) fredyetagain nailed it: blacks are stingy tippers, if they tip at all.

    Over the decades I waitressed in several restaurants and my experience is that the overwhelming majority of black diners either don’t tip, or they leave a tip in an insulting low amount (under 50¢), and they often spread this out in small change all over the table top, forcing the server to hunt for each coin; or they leave their under-50¢ on a soiled plate – sometimes plopped or smushed into abandoned mashed potatoes or gravy or such.

    Further, in all my years of waitressing, not once did a table of Whites walk out without paying, while at least twice per weekend and at least once during the weekdays, black tables ordered everything that could fit on their tables, gobbled down as much as they could fit in their bellies, then waited for me to go to the kitchen to fetch another table’s order, at which point they walked out without paying.

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, “Do you give free refills on soda?” And when you, the server, say, “There are no free refills of soda, only of iced tea,” the blacks then order “Water with lemon,” to which they add all of the sugar from their table’s sweetener caddy, and then ask for even more sugar – or they just empty the sugar from the caddies on vacant nearby tables. Also, after being served their appetizers and again after being served their entrées, blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything – White diners rarely pull this kind of crap.

    Further, black diners steal silverware, glasses, ash trays, cloth napkins, china, sweeteners & sugar, entire sweetener caddies at rates vastly out of proportion to the rates at which White diners purloin such items.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered – and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of. They claim such absurdities as, “This isn’t fettucine Alfredo the way my Mama make it,” or that “I ain’t payin’ for this, ’cause it taste bad.” If I had a buck for every time I had to summon my manager when “I ain’t payin’” blacks pulled this move, I’d be rich. At least three times a week the manager had to call the police to come to prevent blacks from leaving without paying for what they’d ordered and had eaten most of.

    Moreover, black diners who pull all of these stunts are not just “teens,” they’re also the majority of chronologically adult blacks. Even Sunday brunch tables of black “church ladies” leave exceedingly stingy tips.

    I also cocktail waitressed and tended bar in nightclubs and bars whose clientele was multi-racial, and blacks seldom tip White cocktail waitresses or bartenders/barmaids. Black males do, however, feel free to paw, pinch and feel-up White cocktail waitresses – I got fed up with this and learned how to “accidentally” dump a tray of drinks on such black octopi: you should’ve been there to hear the black male low-&-cool on-the-make voice shift instantly into freak-out falsetto (I only retaliated thusly while working for a White male manager who understood what was going on and who more than had my back in every such instance, and who routinely barred ill-behave blacks from returning to the establishment).

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips – you’re lucky if they leave you twelve percent. I can’t speak for tipping behavior west of Missouri.

    Best tip I ever got came in 1995 from a White cowboy who was only visiting his friend (who was native to my city and was one of my regular customers) and seemed to have fallen in love with me at first sight. For a dinner of standard fare and two rounds of beers the cowboy left me sixty-five dollars and change. As I’d thought he’d made an error, I actually scooted out the door after him and only saw him as he began to motor off as passenger in his friend’s car – the cowboy saw me, shook his head “no,” and then nodded as he pointed at me, mouthing the words “No, that’s for you!”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Auntie Analogue


    Well, whorefinder, your “when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive…with what I would expect” is dead wrong.
     
    The statistics on this topic is crystal clear: https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/reports/abstract-13851.html

    1.Tips from Blacks are, on average, lower than those from Whites;
    2.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping are not caused solely by race differences in socio-economic status;
    3.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping are evident among the middle-class as well as the lower-class;
    4.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping do not disappear when both groups get comparable service;
    5.Blacks tip less than Whites even when the server is Black;
    6.Blacks are much less familiar with the 15- to 20-percent restaurant tipping norm than are Whites;
    7.Blacks tip less than do Whites in many (but not all) other service contexts; and
    8.Asian-White and Hispanic-White differences in tipping are smaller, less robust, and have drawn less attention than Black-White differences in tipping.
     
    That is from Cornell University's The Center for Hospitality Research. My guess is that they struggled to find other factors, but consistently and persistently found a gap, which suggests at least half of the difference is racial.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered – and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of.
     
    I did not believe this until I saw it with my own eyes as an adult. I was eating at a fashionable Thai restaurant in a hip area. A professionally-dressed black couple came in, sat down next to my table, and proceeded to order multiple courses. They didn't talk - they just ate fast like they have been starving all their lives. They were done before I was, and I sat long before they did. Then to my great surprise the man pulled "There is something wrong with the food. It all tasted very bad. This is the worst Thai food we ever had."

    The server valiantly attempted to diffuse the situation, by apologizing profusely and asking for specifics ("Which one of the dishes was bad?"). The black male patron then got angry (or pretended to be angry) and said, "You are disrespecting me! I am not paying for this food! It was horrible and your service is totally disrespectful!" After several more minutes of shouting and arguing, the manager came and told them that they could leave without paying. Afterwards, the manager apologized to the rest of us around that table and brought us some extra dessert to make up for the disturbance.

    I was just speechless, as were several other patrons nearby.


    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips – you’re lucky if they leave you twelve percent.
     
    As I noted before, my wife's rich white Midwestern family is not made up of good tippers. My mother-in-law is absolutely the worst among the bunch. If the service is very good, she will tip 15% on the sub-total before taxes. Otherwise, probably 10%. I even saw her tip $1 (!) a few times to express her displeasure at the service. It made me feel terribly embarrassed to accompany them to restaurants (my father-in-law was more generous, but usually she paid bills).

    I typically tip 15% for mediocre to average service, 20% for good one, and 25-30% for excellent service, especially if the server is very accommodating toward my small children (who behave well - their mother and I do not tolerate misbehavior particularly in public). On a very rare occasion when I think the service is quite bad, I will do 10%, but I can count the number of times I did that with one hand over 30 years.

    By the way, by "bad" service I do not mean slow service. When I see one or two servers struggling with multiple tables, I don't judge them negatively for it (it's the restaurant management's fault for poor staffing). Bad service for me is when servers go out of their way to be impolite or condescending (in which case they are in the wrong line of work).

    , @whorefinder
    @Auntie Analogue

    Well done, young lady.

    I've seen the black male response to cocktail waitresses as well.. A good place to see it is in a poker room.

    One dude sat behind his friend, didn't play for 4 hours, yet demanded drinks from every waitress (which are free in poker rooms) , didn't tip (I watched him, I was card dead), and then pawed at them all---once, when he had a short, 5-minute conversation with a comely waitress, whenever it was his turn to talk, he deliberately leaned into her face and grabbed her waist. All in that brother-on-the-make voice you noted so well. He copped more feels in 5 minutes than some guys get in months. Of course, it was right after that that management cut him off from free drinks unless he started playing--which he did, and started losing badly, which made that falsetto-girlish black voice you mention come out.

    For blacks, it seems the choice is either Smoove B or freaking out like a twink gay guy who got mud on his Jimmy Choos. Dominance or submission.

    One of the secrets of blacks getting sex is just manhandling a woman you like and seeing if she says no. For blacks, unless there is a multiple yelling of nos, they assume yes. So the more "diversity" you get on campus, the more blacks will be confused at yes-meaning-yes. It's going to be a wild ride to the end.

    , @Beach
    @Auntie Analogue


    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, “Do you give free refills on soda?”
     

    ...blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Egxk5NICI
  79. An aquaintenance of mine, who worked as a waitress, told me that high-school kids on Prom night were some of the worst tippers, and they don’t order booze which makes the tab lower too. And that’s even for the kids whose parents given them money to take their date out to dinner. One prom night, she said, a whole bunch of them came in, filled up the whole restaurant, and barely left a couple of bucks between them. As they left, the wait-staff all told them: “F**k you. Don’t come back.”

    • Replies: @Deduction
    @Mr. Anon

    Ridiculous that this kind of thing happens.

    No tips. Pay the staff properly.

    Easy.

  80. @Ozymandias
    I'm lovin' it!

    McDonald's long slow slide down the diversity benefits hole that is. They went black, and they ain't comin' back.

    http://www.mcdonalds.com/365black/en/home.html

    Replies: @Anonymous, @countenance

    That same article that Steve Sailer links to criticizes McDs for even doing 365BellCurve, because it hawks artery clogging “food” to blacks. Because racism.

  81. @Rob McX
    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking:

    "What Jimmy didn't know was that Rob was sick, a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious - a sickness of the mind".

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking

    10x better with a riff trax:

    Opie and Anthony – Boys Beware – 60s PSA 1/2
    Opie and Anthony – Boys Beware – 60s PSA 2/2

  82. @Ivy
    @Twinkie

    My late mother-in-law said that her Midwest tipping was 'one person, a quarter, two people, two quarters'. That became more generous when she moved west.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I hope that story was not literal.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @Twinkie

    Sadly, yes. Things got a lot better later on.

  83. @Tarrou
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Yeah, things haven't changed. My SO tends bar in a black-majority town, and the tales are depressingly common. The slang is a bit funny too, the servers refer to blacks as "Canadians", another group known for not tipping. As in "Good luck, you just got sat a six-top of Canadians!". According to the staff there, blacks also send their food back to the kitchen at a rate at least five or ten times that of whites. FWIW, the second worst group is middle-aged white women in groups.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Brutusale, @Moderate Mom

    I live across the river from Canada. There is a running conversation on talk radio about how poorly Canadians tip, ten percent seems to be the upper limit of their tips. I knew a gay construction worker who was the live in boyfriend of a surgeon. The doctor gave him a Cadillac Seville, then the top of the line Caddy, for his birthday. My wife and I refer to gays as Sevilles.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Buffalo Joe


    I live across the river from Canada. There is a running conversation on talk radio about how poorly Canadians tip, ten percent seems to be the upper limit of their tips.
     
    And I've heard that in some places waiters call Blacks "Canadians" as a little inside joke that keeps the PC police away.
  84. @Rob McX
    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking:

    "What Jimmy didn't know was that Rob was sick, a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious - a sickness of the mind".

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    And another one with commentary:
    Opie & Anthony Old PSA Videos

  85. @Anon
    That McDonalds ad was just being authentic in the decade of Shaft.

    Replies: @Bob

    Hush yo’ mouth!

  86. @Rob McX
    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.

    This American Public Service Announcement from the 60s warns boys about being picked up by homosexuals when hitch-hiking:

    "What Jimmy didn't know was that Rob was sick, a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious - a sickness of the mind".

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    And the complementary “Girls Beware” verson. It has three tragic scenarios: murder, rape, and pregnant by boyfriend.

    Girls Beware – 1961 Social Guidance / Educational Film for Teenagers – Val73TV

  87. @Auntie Analogue
    @whorefinder

    Well, whorefinder, your "when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive...with what I would expect" is dead wrong.

    Commenter (Comment No. 1) fredyetagain nailed it: blacks are stingy tippers, if they tip at all.

    Over the decades I waitressed in several restaurants and my experience is that the overwhelming majority of black diners either don't tip, or they leave a tip in an insulting low amount (under 50¢), and they often spread this out in small change all over the table top, forcing the server to hunt for each coin; or they leave their under-50¢ on a soiled plate - sometimes plopped or smushed into abandoned mashed potatoes or gravy or such.

    Further, in all my years of waitressing, not once did a table of Whites walk out without paying, while at least twice per weekend and at least once during the weekdays, black tables ordered everything that could fit on their tables, gobbled down as much as they could fit in their bellies, then waited for me to go to the kitchen to fetch another table's order, at which point they walked out without paying.

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, "Do you give free refills on soda?" And when you, the server, say, "There are no free refills of soda, only of iced tea," the blacks then order "Water with lemon," to which they add all of the sugar from their table's sweetener caddy, and then ask for even more sugar - or they just empty the sugar from the caddies on vacant nearby tables. Also, after being served their appetizers and again after being served their entrées, blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything - White diners rarely pull this kind of crap.

    Further, black diners steal silverware, glasses, ash trays, cloth napkins, china, sweeteners & sugar, entire sweetener caddies at rates vastly out of proportion to the rates at which White diners purloin such items.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered - and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of. They claim such absurdities as, "This isn't fettucine Alfredo the way my Mama make it," or that "I ain't payin' for this, 'cause it taste bad." If I had a buck for every time I had to summon my manager when "I ain't payin'" blacks pulled this move, I'd be rich. At least three times a week the manager had to call the police to come to prevent blacks from leaving without paying for what they'd ordered and had eaten most of.

    Moreover, black diners who pull all of these stunts are not just "teens," they're also the majority of chronologically adult blacks. Even Sunday brunch tables of black "church ladies" leave exceedingly stingy tips.

    I also cocktail waitressed and tended bar in nightclubs and bars whose clientele was multi-racial, and blacks seldom tip White cocktail waitresses or bartenders/barmaids. Black males do, however, feel free to paw, pinch and feel-up White cocktail waitresses - I got fed up with this and learned how to "accidentally" dump a tray of drinks on such black octopi: you should've been there to hear the black male low-&-cool on-the-make voice shift instantly into freak-out falsetto (I only retaliated thusly while working for a White male manager who understood what was going on and who more than had my back in every such instance, and who routinely barred ill-behave blacks from returning to the establishment).

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips - you're lucky if they leave you twelve percent. I can't speak for tipping behavior west of Missouri.

    Best tip I ever got came in 1995 from a White cowboy who was only visiting his friend (who was native to my city and was one of my regular customers) and seemed to have fallen in love with me at first sight. For a dinner of standard fare and two rounds of beers the cowboy left me sixty-five dollars and change. As I'd thought he'd made an error, I actually scooted out the door after him and only saw him as he began to motor off as passenger in his friend's car - the cowboy saw me, shook his head "no," and then nodded as he pointed at me, mouthing the words "No, that's for you!"

    Replies: @Twinkie, @whorefinder, @Beach

    Well, whorefinder, your “when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive…with what I would expect” is dead wrong.

    The statistics on this topic is crystal clear: https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/reports/abstract-13851.html

    1.Tips from Blacks are, on average, lower than those from Whites;
    2.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping are not caused solely by race differences in socio-economic status;
    3.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping are evident among the middle-class as well as the lower-class;
    4.Black-White differences in restaurant tipping do not disappear when both groups get comparable service;
    5.Blacks tip less than Whites even when the server is Black;
    6.Blacks are much less familiar with the 15- to 20-percent restaurant tipping norm than are Whites;
    7.Blacks tip less than do Whites in many (but not all) other service contexts; and
    8.Asian-White and Hispanic-White differences in tipping are smaller, less robust, and have drawn less attention than Black-White differences in tipping.

    That is from Cornell University’s The Center for Hospitality Research. My guess is that they struggled to find other factors, but consistently and persistently found a gap, which suggests at least half of the difference is racial.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered – and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of.

    I did not believe this until I saw it with my own eyes as an adult. I was eating at a fashionable Thai restaurant in a hip area. A professionally-dressed black couple came in, sat down next to my table, and proceeded to order multiple courses. They didn’t talk – they just ate fast like they have been starving all their lives. They were done before I was, and I sat long before they did. Then to my great surprise the man pulled “There is something wrong with the food. It all tasted very bad. This is the worst Thai food we ever had.”

    The server valiantly attempted to diffuse the situation, by apologizing profusely and asking for specifics (“Which one of the dishes was bad?”). The black male patron then got angry (or pretended to be angry) and said, “You are disrespecting me! I am not paying for this food! It was horrible and your service is totally disrespectful!” After several more minutes of shouting and arguing, the manager came and told them that they could leave without paying. Afterwards, the manager apologized to the rest of us around that table and brought us some extra dessert to make up for the disturbance.

    I was just speechless, as were several other patrons nearby.

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips – you’re lucky if they leave you twelve percent.

    As I noted before, my wife’s rich white Midwestern family is not made up of good tippers. My mother-in-law is absolutely the worst among the bunch. If the service is very good, she will tip 15% on the sub-total before taxes. Otherwise, probably 10%. I even saw her tip $1 (!) a few times to express her displeasure at the service. It made me feel terribly embarrassed to accompany them to restaurants (my father-in-law was more generous, but usually she paid bills).

    I typically tip 15% for mediocre to average service, 20% for good one, and 25-30% for excellent service, especially if the server is very accommodating toward my small children (who behave well – their mother and I do not tolerate misbehavior particularly in public). On a very rare occasion when I think the service is quite bad, I will do 10%, but I can count the number of times I did that with one hand over 30 years.

    By the way, by “bad” service I do not mean slow service. When I see one or two servers struggling with multiple tables, I don’t judge them negatively for it (it’s the restaurant management’s fault for poor staffing). Bad service for me is when servers go out of their way to be impolite or condescending (in which case they are in the wrong line of work).

  88. Mike says: • Website
    @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    Having two kids that work at a country club, I can tell you the no tipping rule is due, mainly, to compensation law. My kids work at an hourly scale slightly above minimum wage. Your typical tipped position, such as a waiter, is only paid $2.13 per hour.

    Also, in the case of this country club, and others I’m pretty sure, there is no cash used on the premises. This helps keeps non-members away. You pay for everything on your account and settle up at the end of the month.

    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    @Mike

    When the $15 per hour minimum wage comes to LA I won't have to tip. Sweet!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Jacobite
    @Mike

    Always tip your caddy.

    , @Forbes
    @Mike

    The clubs I'm familiar with, the only cash paid--including tip--is to caddies, otherwise no cash is observed. Menus contain no prices, and all charges go on the monthly statement, i.e. guests are guests, and they don't pay.

  89. @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It’s a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That’s baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there’s No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It’s hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a “Guest Info” page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn’t mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Steve Sailer

    A lot of the arcane rules and standards of exclusive institutions seem to be designed to intimidate hoi polloi into staying away.

    , @syonredux
    @Steve Sailer


    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out.
     
    And, of course, the struggle to wend one's way through those barriers provided a lot of material for the 19th century social novel. For example, the aesthetic high point of William Dean Howells' The Rise of Silas Lapham occurs when nouveau riche Lapham is invited to dine with the Brahmin Corey family.Chapters 13 and 14 are consumed with the Lapham Family's attempts to capture the right tone for this important event.The chief trouble arises from the fact that etiquette books are quite precise on certain matters but are damnably vague on others:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor's door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,--a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,--was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.
     
    , @Jacobite
    @Steve Sailer

    Caddies excluded of course.

    , @NorthOfTheOneOhOne
    @Steve Sailer


    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there’s No Tipping at McDonalds.
     
    I think if you went back 20 years beyond that ad you'd find the same sort of advertising for McDonalds aimed at whites as well. My experience (both my parents) is that the Depression Era working class generation sort of resented having to tip.
    , @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    OK, I think I've figured it out. Private clubs ban tipping to avoid an "arms race" among the members.

    If you're a regular at an ordinary restaurant, you can ensure superior service and seating by becoming known as a generous tipper. Your benefits result in marginally worse service and seating to the other diners, but if they're not regulars they probably don't notice and anyway the restauranteur feels little obligation to them.

    But at a club, everyone is a regular! If some members are treated better than others, this will become quickly apparent and lead to either (a) resentment or (b) ever-escalating competition on tipping (which eventually leads back to (a)). And if you're the type that doesn't care much about restaurant service, imagine learning that it takes tipping to get a good tee time.

    Replies: @Lot, @Steve Sailer

  90. I was in a D’Angelo’s the other day. It is located on a well traveled road in a commercial area, albeit in close proximity to an area where people like to keep it real. However, I was going to see “Tomorrow Land” at a nearby ghettotron that let’s you put your own buttery like ambrosia on yer popcorn! And for that my friends, I’d walk through the gates of hell. The woman working the register was a standard issue abuela.

    Anyway, channeling my inner Mainer I ordered a lobster roll. Sure, not Red’s Eats, but the only game in town. She joked that I was rewarding myself. I opined somewhat pithily that, alas, there is no is rewarded in this life. She had a pretty good rejoinder that escapes me now. Anyway, I went to sit down and wait for my brown bag of buttery goodness.

    Next, this black woman walks in to the joint like she’s got the deed to it. She was donned in the dull, pastel blue, shapeless raiment of a home health care worker. Now, this woman who has climbed to the highest heights of the bed pan emptying profession procedes to interrogate the server in a condescending tone, infused with simmering aggression, and speaking in, of course, her subterranean ghetto dialect, over whether or not D’Angelo’ s was actually serving real lobster. Assured that it was, she then decided to mull her options for several minutes. In the interim, my industrious border hopping server finished preparing my lobster roll. Then, I did something I never do:

    I thanked her in Spanish.

    When I got the car I noted that I received about double the normal helping!

    Then, I headed to the ghettotron, stole a parking space, and got my popcorn.

    Quick movie review: “Tomorrow Land” starts out great and, frankly, Clooney was compelling and likable; however, it devolves into advocating a poorly fit and cobbled together A Small World multiracial fetishism and valuable life lessons about the value of positive thinking. It is schizophrenic in the it pines for the future of Hugo Gernsback and Ace Double science fiction novels, but promulgating a way forward that is untenable.

    I got to experience the small world utopia first hand at the ghettotron with this hispanic lady and her 4 kids chattering away behind me. In full disclosure, they were speaking English, so I guess there’s that a least. Also, I dumped a half pint of Majorska Blue into my extra large Diet Coke, so the world was Ok, if just for a little while.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Zabar's in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it's labeled "Zabster" salad.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Dude - I salute you! You do know how to go to the movies.

  91. @Mike
    @International Jew

    Having two kids that work at a country club, I can tell you the no tipping rule is due, mainly, to compensation law. My kids work at an hourly scale slightly above minimum wage. Your typical tipped position, such as a waiter, is only paid $2.13 per hour.

    Also, in the case of this country club, and others I'm pretty sure, there is no cash used on the premises. This helps keeps non-members away. You pay for everything on your account and settle up at the end of the month.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Jacobite, @Forbes

    When the $15 per hour minimum wage comes to LA I won’t have to tip. Sweet!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...


    When the $15 per hour minimum wage comes to LA I won’t have to tip. Sweet!
     
    Some LA unions are trying to exempt their members from this minimum. Speaks volumes, doesn't it?
  92. @yaqub the mad scientist
    @iSteveFan

    Everything more than a generation back is a dark gulag to SJW's.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Try 1/2 a generation.

  93. @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    A lot of the arcane rules and standards of exclusive institutions seem to be designed to intimidate hoi polloi into staying away.

  94. If I were a rude person, I certainly wouldn’t act that way when dealing with restaurant staff, not unless I’d already been served my last order and wasn’t coming back. Judging by what I’ve heard, it doesn’t take much – if any – provocation to make them spit in your food.

  95. @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out.

    And, of course, the struggle to wend one’s way through those barriers provided a lot of material for the 19th century social novel. For example, the aesthetic high point of William Dean Howells’ The Rise of Silas Lapham occurs when nouveau riche Lapham is invited to dine with the Brahmin Corey family.Chapters 13 and 14 are consumed with the Lapham Family’s attempts to capture the right tone for this important event.The chief trouble arises from the fact that etiquette books are quite precise on certain matters but are damnably vague on others:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor’s door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,–a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,–was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.

  96. @iSteveFan
    @Dave Pinsen

    From the article in your link, "In 2009, McKinney was forced to settle a lawsuit alleging that it was blocking the development of affordable housing suitable for tenants with Section 8 vouchers in the more affluent western portion of the city. "

    Do the affluent portions of NY, Boston, SF, etc, etc, ever get called out on blocking Section 8 housing?

    Replies: @Jacobite

    I know it is a big issue in NYC inner suburbs like Rye and Scarsdale with the state pressuring them for more low income housing.

  97. @Mr. Anon
    "Twinkie says:

    And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads."

    As Dave Barry wrote: "A man who is nice to you, and not nice to the waitress, is not a nice man."

    "Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example)."

    I see nothing wrong with calculating the tip from the pre-tax amount, if it is calculated generously, although I have taken to mostly just calculating it from the total.

    Replies: @Whiskey

    Nice guys finish last. Chics dig jerks. And Chechens.

  98. @Matra
    @International Jew

    My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    I'll guess because it appears low brow and tacky.

    Replies: @Jacobite

    The members demand it. I wish the cheap bastards that run restaurants in America would follow the Europeans and just include the gratuity on the bill. I guess they don’t want the bookkeeping hassle.

    I love English pubs because there is no tipping. Servers should be paid a living wage to begin with.

  99. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Looks like there’s something many blacks and whites agree on and that’s how blacks are portrayed in commercials. Years ago they weren’t portrayed with the proper gravitas. Nowadays dorky whites are being advised about their medical conditions by black doctors or otherwise being shown how things are done by the ultra-capable blacks.

    • Replies: @carol
    @anonymous

    Meanwhile PBS World channel runs endless films documenting the hapless and helpless Negroes of the world, who clearly need more help from Us.

  100. @Mike
    @International Jew

    Having two kids that work at a country club, I can tell you the no tipping rule is due, mainly, to compensation law. My kids work at an hourly scale slightly above minimum wage. Your typical tipped position, such as a waiter, is only paid $2.13 per hour.

    Also, in the case of this country club, and others I'm pretty sure, there is no cash used on the premises. This helps keeps non-members away. You pay for everything on your account and settle up at the end of the month.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Jacobite, @Forbes

    Always tip your caddy.

  101. @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    Caddies excluded of course.

  102. @OsRazor
    Tipping requires empathy. Every study out there says blacks have low levels of empathy. Spending on yourself like a drunk sailor on shore leave, on the other hand, reeks of lack of impulse control. Blacks have low impulse control, drunk or otherwise.

    Probably most revealing was a segment in the British car show "Top Gear" where the host reviewed a Cadillac Escalade, pretty much concluded it was crap (in every meaningful way in terms of engineering, performance, quality compared to European SUVs), and then went out on a ride in the Escalade with a British black celebrity, hoping the black celebrity could clue him in on why the Escalade was so popular among blacks. The black celebrity was confused. Why wouldn't one want the Escalade? It was big and ostentatious--no other black who saw you in it could not but be impressed. Most revealing, the black celebrity said that a black guy wouldn't hesitate to purchase the Escalade even though he still lived with his mother, could only afford to fill it with gasoline more or less one gallon at a time, etc. None of that mattered. What mattered was that the black guy had the Escalade and every one he knew knew it.

    Replies: @keypusher, @Lot, @SEATAF

    During the school year you see a lot of Escalades at dropoff at Upper East Side private schools. I don’t see black students getting out of them.

    • Replies: @J
    @keypusher

    Could be a car service instead of family owned vehicle.

    Replies: @keypusher

    , @Forbes
    @keypusher

    Absolutely car service--driven by the owner.

  103. Both races? Like, just two?

    I. Can’t. Even.

  104. These days you see way more White people in a Taco Bell commercial than you do in a McDonald’s commercial, which is funny because Taco Bell sells food that is influenced by the predominantly Brown country of Mexico while hamburgers are German in origin. Hamburgers are closer to European cuisine than burritos are.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Jefferson

    Taco Bell uses a calking gun to apply sour cream. There's nothing Mexican or German about that; that's Yankee ingenuity. And its ads feature whites, because that's where whites go when they are stoned.

  105. I think you all misunderstand the problem. Blacks think they should tip 15 cents. The idea of paying 15 cents per dollar, well that is too difficult to figure out.

  106. I wait tables at an upscale restaurant in Washington DC. There are few things that will make you hate black people more. I used to be a nice bien-pensant platitude-spewing liberal. I voted for Obama twice. Twice. Then I started waiting tables. And now? Well after Ferguson, let’s just say that I was relieved that I never became a cop. I’m sure that if I had, I would have shot a couple by now.

  107. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    I was in a D'Angelo's the other day. It is located on a well traveled road in a commercial area, albeit in close proximity to an area where people like to keep it real. However, I was going to see "Tomorrow Land" at a nearby ghettotron that let's you put your own buttery like ambrosia on yer popcorn! And for that my friends, I'd walk through the gates of hell. The woman working the register was a standard issue abuela.

    Anyway, channeling my inner Mainer I ordered a lobster roll. Sure, not Red's Eats, but the only game in town. She joked that I was rewarding myself. I opined somewhat pithily that, alas, there is no is rewarded in this life. She had a pretty good rejoinder that escapes me now. Anyway, I went to sit down and wait for my brown bag of buttery goodness.

    Next, this black woman walks in to the joint like she's got the deed to it. She was donned in the dull, pastel blue, shapeless raiment of a home health care worker. Now, this woman who has climbed to the highest heights of the bed pan emptying profession procedes to interrogate the server in a condescending tone, infused with simmering aggression, and speaking in, of course, her subterranean ghetto dialect, over whether or not D'Angelo' s was actually serving real lobster. Assured that it was, she then decided to mull her options for several minutes. In the interim, my industrious border hopping server finished preparing my lobster roll. Then, I did something I never do:

    I thanked her in Spanish.

    When I got the car I noted that I received about double the normal helping!

    Then, I headed to the ghettotron, stole a parking space, and got my popcorn.

    Quick movie review: "Tomorrow Land" starts out great and, frankly, Clooney was compelling and likable; however, it devolves into advocating a poorly fit and cobbled together A Small World multiracial fetishism and valuable life lessons about the value of positive thinking. It is schizophrenic in the it pines for the future of Hugo Gernsback and Ace Double science fiction novels, but promulgating a way forward that is untenable.

    I got to experience the small world utopia first hand at the ghettotron with this hispanic lady and her 4 kids chattering away behind me. In full disclosure, they were speaking English, so I guess there's that a least. Also, I dumped a half pint of Majorska Blue into my extra large Diet Coke, so the world was Ok, if just for a little while.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Zabar’s in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it’s labeled “Zabster” salad.

    • Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave - genX brother from another mother, I am not a NYC guy , living in the sticks, but, I agree, yeah, you usually can tell. I think the D'Angelo's stuff is probably a 70/30 mix. Having spent a lot of time scoffing down pure grade stuff in the ME MidCoast - the key is how chopped up it is. However, it was the only game in town and for $9.99 on sale, not worth getting worked up over and, really, to do so would be like ordering a "Super Steak Hamburger" at MickyD's and being upset it wasn't Kobe beef.

    Anyway - the thing that hit me the way blacks treat Hispanic and, presumably, white) service staff. It goes beyond the tipping issue. Seriously, it was horrible to watch. And, yes, the Hispanic river hopping lady and her issue are basically destroying the "America the Was"(tm), but, hell, she was working hard, seemed to share my fairly dour RC world view (rewarded it with an in crowd serving), and, yet, was treated as a piece of shit by a black woman who, let's face it, has been given every advantage in this world of ours, but was nursing an Atlas sized chip on her shoulder far greater than the Jewish show runner on Mad Men that Steve is always banging on about that will, alas, only get bigger every year as she gets older.

    Enjoy every lobster roll, even if it is probably not 100% lobster; at places where its real, e.g., Red's Eats or Larson's Lunch Box - that shit is the nectar of the gods!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Dave Pinsen


    Zabar’s in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it’s labeled “Zabster” salad.
     
    Don't tell them about egg cream! No egg, no cream!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  108. @ross
    @syonredux

    Aren't "width" and "breadth" the same thing? Is the Atlantic too cheap to pay for an editor for America's most foremost black intellectual?

    Replies: @Alfa158

    “Most foremost” heh, I see what you did there.

  109. Is it possible that country clubs simply include a 15% gratuity on their members dining bills?

    • Replies: @Muse
    @Auntie Analogue

    No.

    Many clubs make an appeal at the end of the year from all members to contribute to what used to be known as a Christmas, now end of year bonus for the house staff. Every board member knows if you are a cheapskate using this method.

    , @Anon
    @Auntie Analogue

    I belong to a club that has a no tipping policy, and they automatically add 15% to the bill. Same thing with the guys who clean your clubs after a round of golf. Makes it simple for you and equitable for the employees. Nothing wrong with giving an extra tip if someone has done something exceptionable, but it is not required. Why don't more restaurants do this?

  110. I think the quality of Black music in the 1970s is superior to the quality of Black music in the 21st Century.

    This is what typical 21st Century Black music sounds like. This is the type of music that appeals to the masses of lower IQ Americans who only vote in presidential elections but never in midterm elections. The people who like this song in the link tend to be Democratic voters.

    • Replies: @CJ
    @Jefferson

    The 1970s was a very good period for black pop music - Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Barry White, the Gamble and Huff Philadelphia International Records stuff with soul violins, and lots more. The contrast with today's paint-by-numbers sludge is stark.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

  111. @Jefferson
    These days you see way more White people in a Taco Bell commercial than you do in a McDonald's commercial, which is funny because Taco Bell sells food that is influenced by the predominantly Brown country of Mexico while hamburgers are German in origin. Hamburgers are closer to European cuisine than burritos are.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Taco Bell uses a calking gun to apply sour cream. There’s nothing Mexican or German about that; that’s Yankee ingenuity. And its ads feature whites, because that’s where whites go when they are stoned.

  112. @Ozymandias
    Now here's some historical pron for you. I believe it was someone here that mentioned the old P.F. Flyers shoe line called "Jigaboos." Of course, that wasn't a racist term at the time, it came to be one just as thug, vibrant, etc., or any other term used to describe blacks eventually becomes one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hkXdb81VU

    Replies: @Will, @Bill B.

    The word used in the ad is “chickaboom,” the rest you made up, and you, as you know, are pathetic.

  113. @anonymous
    Looks like there's something many blacks and whites agree on and that's how blacks are portrayed in commercials. Years ago they weren't portrayed with the proper gravitas. Nowadays dorky whites are being advised about their medical conditions by black doctors or otherwise being shown how things are done by the ultra-capable blacks.

    Replies: @carol

    Meanwhile PBS World channel runs endless films documenting the hapless and helpless Negroes of the world, who clearly need more help from Us.

  114. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    Interesting idea. Black men do seem to shrink from challenge quickly and pound on observed servility just as quickly.

  115. @Auntie Analogue
    @whorefinder

    Well, whorefinder, your "when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive...with what I would expect" is dead wrong.

    Commenter (Comment No. 1) fredyetagain nailed it: blacks are stingy tippers, if they tip at all.

    Over the decades I waitressed in several restaurants and my experience is that the overwhelming majority of black diners either don't tip, or they leave a tip in an insulting low amount (under 50¢), and they often spread this out in small change all over the table top, forcing the server to hunt for each coin; or they leave their under-50¢ on a soiled plate - sometimes plopped or smushed into abandoned mashed potatoes or gravy or such.

    Further, in all my years of waitressing, not once did a table of Whites walk out without paying, while at least twice per weekend and at least once during the weekdays, black tables ordered everything that could fit on their tables, gobbled down as much as they could fit in their bellies, then waited for me to go to the kitchen to fetch another table's order, at which point they walked out without paying.

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, "Do you give free refills on soda?" And when you, the server, say, "There are no free refills of soda, only of iced tea," the blacks then order "Water with lemon," to which they add all of the sugar from their table's sweetener caddy, and then ask for even more sugar - or they just empty the sugar from the caddies on vacant nearby tables. Also, after being served their appetizers and again after being served their entrées, blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything - White diners rarely pull this kind of crap.

    Further, black diners steal silverware, glasses, ash trays, cloth napkins, china, sweeteners & sugar, entire sweetener caddies at rates vastly out of proportion to the rates at which White diners purloin such items.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered - and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of. They claim such absurdities as, "This isn't fettucine Alfredo the way my Mama make it," or that "I ain't payin' for this, 'cause it taste bad." If I had a buck for every time I had to summon my manager when "I ain't payin'" blacks pulled this move, I'd be rich. At least three times a week the manager had to call the police to come to prevent blacks from leaving without paying for what they'd ordered and had eaten most of.

    Moreover, black diners who pull all of these stunts are not just "teens," they're also the majority of chronologically adult blacks. Even Sunday brunch tables of black "church ladies" leave exceedingly stingy tips.

    I also cocktail waitressed and tended bar in nightclubs and bars whose clientele was multi-racial, and blacks seldom tip White cocktail waitresses or bartenders/barmaids. Black males do, however, feel free to paw, pinch and feel-up White cocktail waitresses - I got fed up with this and learned how to "accidentally" dump a tray of drinks on such black octopi: you should've been there to hear the black male low-&-cool on-the-make voice shift instantly into freak-out falsetto (I only retaliated thusly while working for a White male manager who understood what was going on and who more than had my back in every such instance, and who routinely barred ill-behave blacks from returning to the establishment).

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips - you're lucky if they leave you twelve percent. I can't speak for tipping behavior west of Missouri.

    Best tip I ever got came in 1995 from a White cowboy who was only visiting his friend (who was native to my city and was one of my regular customers) and seemed to have fallen in love with me at first sight. For a dinner of standard fare and two rounds of beers the cowboy left me sixty-five dollars and change. As I'd thought he'd made an error, I actually scooted out the door after him and only saw him as he began to motor off as passenger in his friend's car - the cowboy saw me, shook his head "no," and then nodded as he pointed at me, mouthing the words "No, that's for you!"

    Replies: @Twinkie, @whorefinder, @Beach

    Well done, young lady.

    I’ve seen the black male response to cocktail waitresses as well.. A good place to see it is in a poker room.

    One dude sat behind his friend, didn’t play for 4 hours, yet demanded drinks from every waitress (which are free in poker rooms) , didn’t tip (I watched him, I was card dead), and then pawed at them all—once, when he had a short, 5-minute conversation with a comely waitress, whenever it was his turn to talk, he deliberately leaned into her face and grabbed her waist. All in that brother-on-the-make voice you noted so well. He copped more feels in 5 minutes than some guys get in months. Of course, it was right after that that management cut him off from free drinks unless he started playing–which he did, and started losing badly, which made that falsetto-girlish black voice you mention come out.

    For blacks, it seems the choice is either Smoove B or freaking out like a twink gay guy who got mud on his Jimmy Choos. Dominance or submission.

    One of the secrets of blacks getting sex is just manhandling a woman you like and seeing if she says no. For blacks, unless there is a multiple yelling of nos, they assume yes. So the more “diversity” you get on campus, the more blacks will be confused at yes-meaning-yes. It’s going to be a wild ride to the end.

  116. The best ad targeted at blacks of all time, Ice Cube rapping for St. Ides:

    get your girl in the mood quicka’
    get your jimmy thicka’

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @jon

    Note how Mr. Cube dropped his 'R's' in 'thicker' and 'quicker'.... appalling

  117. @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    My guess would have been that, since people tip to reward good service, and given that it's easy for a white person to rub a black person the wrong way, it's natural that blacks would tend to undertip white servers. On the other hand, that Washington Post piece Twinkie quoted (I didn't read any more than his quote) says blacks undertip black servers too.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Alec Leamas

    I think it’s more a confluence of two phenomena – the first is poor budgeting and overspending, which leaves little left for tipping, and the second is what I call “whitey on the hook” which is a public situation where blacks feel empowered to passively aggressively haze whites as an outlet for their racial resentments. Most often I’ve experienced it with black civil servants and the like who do things like ostentatiously wasting time while you’re waiting for service, etc. In the restaurant/waiter context it can be expressed by running the waiter ragged with constant requests/demands, complaints, etc.

  118. @Dave Pinsen
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Zabar's in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it's labeled "Zabster" salad.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @Reg Cæsar

    Dave – genX brother from another mother, I am not a NYC guy , living in the sticks, but, I agree, yeah, you usually can tell. I think the D’Angelo’s stuff is probably a 70/30 mix. Having spent a lot of time scoffing down pure grade stuff in the ME MidCoast – the key is how chopped up it is. However, it was the only game in town and for $9.99 on sale, not worth getting worked up over and, really, to do so would be like ordering a “Super Steak Hamburger” at MickyD’s and being upset it wasn’t Kobe beef.

    Anyway – the thing that hit me the way blacks treat Hispanic and, presumably, white) service staff. It goes beyond the tipping issue. Seriously, it was horrible to watch. And, yes, the Hispanic river hopping lady and her issue are basically destroying the “America the Was”(tm), but, hell, she was working hard, seemed to share my fairly dour RC world view (rewarded it with an in crowd serving), and, yet, was treated as a piece of shit by a black woman who, let’s face it, has been given every advantage in this world of ours, but was nursing an Atlas sized chip on her shoulder far greater than the Jewish show runner on Mad Men that Steve is always banging on about that will, alas, only get bigger every year as she gets older.

    Enjoy every lobster roll, even if it is probably not 100% lobster; at places where its real, e.g., Red’s Eats or Larson’s Lunch Box – that shit is the nectar of the gods!

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Just to clarify, the Zabar's stuff consisted 100% of crawfish tails, so it was obvious. And they just sold it in plastic containers on the shelf next to the shrimp salad, etc. - I don't think they sold any prepared lobster rolls.

  119. @Dave Pinsen
    @syonredux

    Coates must be kicking himself that Applebaum beat him to writing this: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/troubled-waters-in-mckinney-texas/395150/?utm_source=SFTwitter

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Clifford Brown

    Yoni Appelbaum, who wrote the magnum opus in The Atlantic on the racialized history of American community pools, is Ta-Nehisi Coates’ protege. Allegedly, Coates pulled “Cynic” Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates’ articles. Not sure I believe the story completely in light of how much TNC seems to limit open debate on his articles.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/07/152205683/from-commenter-to-columnist-the-atlantics-cynic

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Clifford Brown

    Nice to see an African American give a hand to a Jew for a change.

    , @PB and J
    @Clifford Brown

    Not his protege, I can assure you. "Cynic" stood out as an extremely erudite commenter (back 5 years ago when I regularly read the Atlantic online), the type who seems like he has a well-earned PhD in some humanities field.

    (EDIT - I looked at the NPR story and, yep, PhD candidate in History at Brandeis. Not that I'm prescient, rather that the details of his contributions heavily implied "I study original texts for a living.")

    But unlike Coates: (1) he never went the journalism route, (2) he offers no diversity to the staff at the Atlantic. Wait -- actually he DOES offer diversity, by having deep knowledge of a subject rather than being someone whose first talent is constructing wordcastles from whatever wet sand he is assigned.

    , @International Jew
    @Clifford Brown


    Allegedly, Coates pulled “Cynic” Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates’ articles.
     
    Wow, that's some meteoric ascent -- procrastinating grad student to MSM journalist.

    Steve, maybe you should nominate someone. Svigor would be a good fit for Ron.

  120. @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there’s No Tipping at McDonalds.

    I think if you went back 20 years beyond that ad you’d find the same sort of advertising for McDonalds aimed at whites as well. My experience (both my parents) is that the Depression Era working class generation sort of resented having to tip.

  121. @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    @Mike

    When the $15 per hour minimum wage comes to LA I won't have to tip. Sweet!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    When the $15 per hour minimum wage comes to LA I won’t have to tip. Sweet!

    Some LA unions are trying to exempt their members from this minimum. Speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

  122. @Dave Pinsen
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Zabar's in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it's labeled "Zabster" salad.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @Reg Cæsar

    Zabar’s in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it’s labeled “Zabster” salad.

    Don’t tell them about egg cream! No egg, no cream!

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Reg Cæsar

    Heh. I don't think they even have that.

  123. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    “Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.”

    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.
     
    Well, that may be, technically. But I do not feel that I was ill-served [pun intended] by my father's advice to tip generously. Waiters and waitresses live on tips, and the extra few percent doesn't mean as much to me as it does to them, so I always err on the more generous side.

    By the way, maybe Midwesterners tip parsimoniously because they are mostly Germans in ethnic origin. In Germany, Trinkgeld ("Drink money" = tipping) is not so generous or automatic. Typically it is "leftover" money rounded up to a moderate round number to reward good service (e.g. the bill is 8.75 DM, so leave 10 DM including Trinkgeld). At least that was the custom I learned when I was in Germany. The first time I left an American-sized tip, my German counterpart said "No, that's too much, we don't tip like that in Germany," and made me take back most of it.

    Well, whatever the reason, I dread going out to eat with my wife's folks at restaurants. Aside from what I see as unfairness of it, it's a rather bad scene getting in and out of their $80,000+ cars with them and seeing them leave a small tip. In the past, I even tried tipping separately, but my mother-in-law made such a scene of it, the embarrassment was even worse.

    My in-laws are great people in many ways, very proper, traditional, moral, hardworking, exceedingly law-abiding, and so on, but they can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money - she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the "room and board" from her parents, so to speak).

    Replies: @PB and J, @disambiguated, @JSM

  124. This is a fascinating comment thread. Restaurant threads are always interesting.

  125. @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    Many country clubs include a tip on the member’s monthly bill.

  126. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    “And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings.”

    You’re obviously a wonderful human being. 🙂

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    You’re obviously a wonderful human being. :)
     
    Thanks, but that remains to be seen. I expect a rather harsh judgment from the Old Mighty for my arrogance, violence, and excessive bloodthirstiness.

    But I have tried my best to be honorable, loyal, and fair to my fellow citizens (including, yes, people who serve me food and maids who clean my hotel rooms). I am very tribal in nature, and America is my tribe. To those outside my tribe, I apply what Thomas Friedman called "Hama rules." That's not very Christian of me, but nobody's perfect.

    Replies: @Moderate Mom

  127. @Ozymandias
    Now here's some historical pron for you. I believe it was someone here that mentioned the old P.F. Flyers shoe line called "Jigaboos." Of course, that wasn't a racist term at the time, it came to be one just as thug, vibrant, etc., or any other term used to describe blacks eventually becomes one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hkXdb81VU

    Replies: @Will, @Bill B.

    Eh?

    Thug comes from hindi meaning rogue and originally referred to a murderous sect of thieves who used to strangle their victims.

    The British imperial police eventually wiped them out in the 19th Century. There is a classic old police memoir of the anti-thugee campaign; I can’t remember the title.

  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve –

    Any ideas on what’s going on over at the NY Times / MSM when it comes to their Japan coverage?

    I’ve noticed a serious uptick in the number of articles on them, as well as a more…aggressive? Strident? tone w/r/t to the particular peculiarities of the Japanese…But your read on the Media is better than anyone’s, maybe I’m just imagining things.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/world/asia/biracial-beauty-queen-strives-for-change-in-mono-ethnic-japan.html?ref=topics

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/world/asia/in-japan-bid-to-stifle-media-is-working.html?referrer=&_r=0

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/business/international/in-japan-you-get-a-tax-break-and-a-side-of-lobster-and-beef.html?ref=topics

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    the particular peculiarities
     
    As opposed to the widely shared universal peculiarities? The particular genericisms?
    , @Nathan Wartooth
    @Anonymous

    I play their games, watch their shows and when I look at Japan's demographics, it is pretty easy to know why they hate them.

    They are apologetically Japanese. They don't take in migrants and their games and shows feature about 1% diversity. They are also successful and peaceful. So the media doesn't want anyone getting any ideas that maybe diversity isn't that great after all.

  129. @Anonymous
    Steve -

    Any ideas on what's going on over at the NY Times / MSM when it comes to their Japan coverage?

    I've noticed a serious uptick in the number of articles on them, as well as a more...aggressive? Strident? tone w/r/t to the particular peculiarities of the Japanese...But your read on the Media is better than anyone's, maybe I'm just imagining things.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/world/asia/biracial-beauty-queen-strives-for-change-in-mono-ethnic-japan.html?ref=topics

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/world/asia/in-japan-bid-to-stifle-media-is-working.html?referrer=&_r=0

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/business/international/in-japan-you-get-a-tax-break-and-a-side-of-lobster-and-beef.html?ref=topics

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Nathan Wartooth

    the particular peculiarities

    As opposed to the widely shared universal peculiarities? The particular genericisms?

  130. @EriK
    The President can drop a mean g when he wants to. Of course in a clean and articulate way.

    Slightly OT, a former black co-worker (and at one time briefly my boss) with a Phd (granted it was really an Edu.) used to celebrate Valentimes Day. No seriously, that's the way she pronounced it. She was from Indianapolis originally, but had spent her schooling and work years in NY. She would be offended by dinnertimin now, but I bet she wouldn't have been back in the day.

    Replies: @Curle

    Did she attend a for-profit open access college? These cesspools are pumping out more PhDs and MBAs, etc. in a year than are produced by real colleges in a decade. Turn around and you are likely to bump into one. Probably teaching some diversity class or pseudo motivation seminar.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @Curle

    Nope. State school.

  131. OT-

    A Child Moves From ‘She’ to ‘He’ With Confidence

    WNYC ran three reports today covering “Q Daily” Brooklyn’s transgender third grader.

    http://www.wnyc.org/story/child-goes-she-he-confidently/

    http://www.wnyc.org/story/how-schools-support-transgender-children/

    http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/creating-safe-spaces-transgender-kids/

  132. Speaking of weird fetishes for racism porn, ethnomasochism and SJW one upmanship that are the sign of the times.

    Perhaps Steve, being the former good parochial school boy, is unaware of the ultimate act of SJW ethnomasochism, watching interracial cuckold porn.

    If so check out the following

    https://www.google.com/search?q=phenomenon+interracial+cuckhold+porn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=phenomenon++interracial+cuckold+porn

    at 3,040,000 results something really weird is going on.

  133. People, please, let’s keep our eyes on the ball. This isn’t about tipping, or food quality. This is about overly educated, self-righteous people trying to outdo each other in the “Look How Outraged I Am At This Offensive Thing!” sweepstakes.

  134. @Jefferson
    I think the quality of Black music in the 1970s is superior to the quality of Black music in the 21st Century.

    This is what typical 21st Century Black music sounds like. This is the type of music that appeals to the masses of lower IQ Americans who only vote in presidential elections but never in midterm elections. The people who like this song in the link tend to be Democratic voters.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK2FqPNIT_U

    Replies: @CJ

    The 1970s was a very good period for black pop music – Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Barry White, the Gamble and Huff Philadelphia International Records stuff with soul violins, and lots more. The contrast with today’s paint-by-numbers sludge is stark.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @CJ

    The Cultural Marxists triumphed ghetto rap as a direct rejection of crossover 70's black soul's embrace of middle class values. A great way of poking their fingers in the eyes of the middle class was through the obvious sampling of classic soul by rappers who rejected any pretense to middle class expectations.

    A great example was the heavy sampling of The Emotion's, Earth Wind and Fire's girl group and backup singers, huge hit "Best of My Love" by B-Rock and the Bizz as "My Baby Daddy"

    http://www.whosampled.com/sample/4221/B-Rock-and-the-Bizz-My-Baby-Daddy-The-Emotions-Best-of-My-Love/

    Folks forget that back then Blacks were capable of writing monster hit records that would be played at both White and Black wedding receptions.

    By the early nineties major black acts, think even Whitney Houston, were not considered authentically black if they were guilty of not "Keeping It Real".

  135. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip. I do remember college friends who worked at restaurants telling stories about black patrons ostentatiously presenting them with a tip at the end of meal for six or eight people with the words, “And this is for you.”

    “This” turned out to be a five dollar bill.

    I also remember that all of them, including the most socially progressive ones, talked about how their spirits sank when they had to cover a table of black diners. On the other hand, I’ve read that Muhammad Ali is a famously big tipper, so there’s that to consider.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @black sea


    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip.
     
    Research seems to indicate the ignorance of tipping norms seems to explain about *half* of the white-black tipping gap. The other half is apparently "inexplicable" as of now.
  136. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    Good comment.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Curle


    Good comment.
     
    Thanks.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?
     
    I did not realize that until I began to frequent this blog. And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term (I still use "gay" in its proper sense - being frivolously cheerful).

    I once read the following passage about Tolkien from his grandson:

    I vividly remember going to church with him in Bournemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn't agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.
     
    Now *that* is a man after mine heart!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  137. @Anonymous
    Steve -

    Any ideas on what's going on over at the NY Times / MSM when it comes to their Japan coverage?

    I've noticed a serious uptick in the number of articles on them, as well as a more...aggressive? Strident? tone w/r/t to the particular peculiarities of the Japanese...But your read on the Media is better than anyone's, maybe I'm just imagining things.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/world/asia/biracial-beauty-queen-strives-for-change-in-mono-ethnic-japan.html?ref=topics

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/world/asia/in-japan-bid-to-stifle-media-is-working.html?referrer=&_r=0

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/business/international/in-japan-you-get-a-tax-break-and-a-side-of-lobster-and-beef.html?ref=topics

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Nathan Wartooth

    I play their games, watch their shows and when I look at Japan’s demographics, it is pretty easy to know why they hate them.

    They are apologetically Japanese. They don’t take in migrants and their games and shows feature about 1% diversity. They are also successful and peaceful. So the media doesn’t want anyone getting any ideas that maybe diversity isn’t that great after all.

  138. Ed says:
    @advancedatheist
    I suspect poor blacks love eating at fast food restaurants because they lack control over the rest of their lives. The restaurant employees give poor blacks the illusion of respect and importance that they simply can't earn from authority figures like cops, employers, landlords, creditors and social workers - "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Truth, @Sparkling Wiggle, @Stephen H., @Marty, @Ed

    You want haughty behavior, try waiting tables during Mother’s Day or Easter. These days tend to bring out poorer African Americans to restaurants. Where they proceed to wreak all kinds of havoc by making staff run through hoops only to leave little in way of tips. “This isn’t right!”, “I wanted this not that!” They’d shriek.

    I remember servers would call out sick or dump their shifts on new unsuspecting servers.

    • Replies: @Andrew Jackson
    @Ed

    The worst day is Valentines day at least where I currently work.

  139. @jon
    The best ad targeted at blacks of all time, Ice Cube rapping for St. Ides:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcZ3Fs9758E

    get your girl in the mood quicka'
    get your jimmy thicka'
     

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Note how Mr. Cube dropped his ‘R’s’ in ‘thicker’ and ‘quicker’…. appalling

  140. Ed says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    Nope bartenders at black clubs or black theme nights make little comparatively in tips. You’ll often hear the DJ say, ” don’t forget your bartender!”.

    I’ve witnessed a few testy exchanges between bartenders and black patrons who ran up bar bills and left no tips. Management tend give bartenders to do whatever they want in regards to customers compared to waiters.

  141. @Auntie Analogue
    @whorefinder

    Well, whorefinder, your "when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn’t jive...with what I would expect" is dead wrong.

    Commenter (Comment No. 1) fredyetagain nailed it: blacks are stingy tippers, if they tip at all.

    Over the decades I waitressed in several restaurants and my experience is that the overwhelming majority of black diners either don't tip, or they leave a tip in an insulting low amount (under 50¢), and they often spread this out in small change all over the table top, forcing the server to hunt for each coin; or they leave their under-50¢ on a soiled plate - sometimes plopped or smushed into abandoned mashed potatoes or gravy or such.

    Further, in all my years of waitressing, not once did a table of Whites walk out without paying, while at least twice per weekend and at least once during the weekdays, black tables ordered everything that could fit on their tables, gobbled down as much as they could fit in their bellies, then waited for me to go to the kitchen to fetch another table's order, at which point they walked out without paying.

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, "Do you give free refills on soda?" And when you, the server, say, "There are no free refills of soda, only of iced tea," the blacks then order "Water with lemon," to which they add all of the sugar from their table's sweetener caddy, and then ask for even more sugar - or they just empty the sugar from the caddies on vacant nearby tables. Also, after being served their appetizers and again after being served their entrées, blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything - White diners rarely pull this kind of crap.

    Further, black diners steal silverware, glasses, ash trays, cloth napkins, china, sweeteners & sugar, entire sweetener caddies at rates vastly out of proportion to the rates at which White diners purloin such items.

    Another thing blacks pull all the time is refusing to pay for what they ordered - and most often they pull this stunt for dishes they even ate most of. They claim such absurdities as, "This isn't fettucine Alfredo the way my Mama make it," or that "I ain't payin' for this, 'cause it taste bad." If I had a buck for every time I had to summon my manager when "I ain't payin'" blacks pulled this move, I'd be rich. At least three times a week the manager had to call the police to come to prevent blacks from leaving without paying for what they'd ordered and had eaten most of.

    Moreover, black diners who pull all of these stunts are not just "teens," they're also the majority of chronologically adult blacks. Even Sunday brunch tables of black "church ladies" leave exceedingly stingy tips.

    I also cocktail waitressed and tended bar in nightclubs and bars whose clientele was multi-racial, and blacks seldom tip White cocktail waitresses or bartenders/barmaids. Black males do, however, feel free to paw, pinch and feel-up White cocktail waitresses - I got fed up with this and learned how to "accidentally" dump a tray of drinks on such black octopi: you should've been there to hear the black male low-&-cool on-the-make voice shift instantly into freak-out falsetto (I only retaliated thusly while working for a White male manager who understood what was going on and who more than had my back in every such instance, and who routinely barred ill-behave blacks from returning to the establishment).

    All that said, the best White tippers are on the east coast, routinely tipping above fifteen percent. Here in the Midwest, Whites tend to be frugal with tips - you're lucky if they leave you twelve percent. I can't speak for tipping behavior west of Missouri.

    Best tip I ever got came in 1995 from a White cowboy who was only visiting his friend (who was native to my city and was one of my regular customers) and seemed to have fallen in love with me at first sight. For a dinner of standard fare and two rounds of beers the cowboy left me sixty-five dollars and change. As I'd thought he'd made an error, I actually scooted out the door after him and only saw him as he began to motor off as passenger in his friend's car - the cowboy saw me, shook his head "no," and then nodded as he pointed at me, mouthing the words "No, that's for you!"

    Replies: @Twinkie, @whorefinder, @Beach

    Also, upon being seated, the first question 95 out of 100 black tables ask of a server is, “Do you give free refills on soda?”

    …blacks also run you, the server, ragged with their endless stream of requests for extra dressing, extra bread, extra cheese, extra everything and anything

  142. @Flemur
    "Wow. Just. Wow." = code for "I am a PC-styled moron, and I assume you are too."

    Google image search for [McDonalds advertisements] shows they mostly don't show people anymore, just the food.

    Replies: @Hereward

    “Wow just wow” is the 21st Century equivalent of “Well, I never!

  143. @jtgw
    This commenter says it all:

    "The purpose of an ad campaign isn't to fit the sensitivity rubric of a professor's race, class, and gender seminar 40 years into the future. Ads exist to sell product.

    The article omits the most important and interesting info: did these campaigns (no matter how clumsy) increase revenue in the demo? Given that McDonald's has more locations, market share, and revenue by far than any other restarunt on Earth, I suspect the ads worked extraordinarily well."

    Replies: @Karl

    >> Given that McDonald’s has more locations

    Try selling that story to Subway

  144. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    "Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant."

    Twinkie, You're supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That's not being stingy, it's following traditional tipping etiquette.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.

    Well, that may be, technically. But I do not feel that I was ill-served [pun intended] by my father’s advice to tip generously. Waiters and waitresses live on tips, and the extra few percent doesn’t mean as much to me as it does to them, so I always err on the more generous side.

    By the way, maybe Midwesterners tip parsimoniously because they are mostly Germans in ethnic origin. In Germany, Trinkgeld (“Drink money” = tipping) is not so generous or automatic. Typically it is “leftover” money rounded up to a moderate round number to reward good service (e.g. the bill is 8.75 DM, so leave 10 DM including Trinkgeld). At least that was the custom I learned when I was in Germany. The first time I left an American-sized tip, my German counterpart said “No, that’s too much, we don’t tip like that in Germany,” and made me take back most of it.

    Well, whatever the reason, I dread going out to eat with my wife’s folks at restaurants. Aside from what I see as unfairness of it, it’s a rather bad scene getting in and out of their $80,000+ cars with them and seeing them leave a small tip. In the past, I even tried tipping separately, but my mother-in-law made such a scene of it, the embarrassment was even worse.

    My in-laws are great people in many ways, very proper, traditional, moral, hardworking, exceedingly law-abiding, and so on, but they can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money – she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the “room and board” from her parents, so to speak).

    • Replies: @PB and J
    @Twinkie

    The Germanic norm would appear to be, shall we say, "price-conscious" in regards to both goods and services. Whorefinder above was confused by not distinguishing between the two, assuming that paying high prices for goods implies willingness to pay lavishly for services as well.

    So a clarifying question is whether the in-laws, or tight-fisted Midwesterners more broadly, are inclined to order one of the more expensive items on the menu and then "save money" on the tip, or whether they tend to order cheaply as well (e.g. the other person who mentioned well-dressed pensioners ordering only water with their meal).

    Another question - how demanding are they in terms of service and food quality, e.g. sending a steak back if it's cooked to medium instead of medium rare as requested? Servers usually prefer (demanding, spendthrift) to (self-effacing, stingy); both are better than the dreaded (demanding, insultingly cheap) combination.

    You are of course completely correct in noting that a generous gratuity has far more utility to a hard-working server than to an upper-income customer, particularly once you understand that waitstaff make practically nothing from their employer in many states.

    , @disambiguated
    @Twinkie

    And now you know why they have $80,000.00+ cars and you don't.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @JSM
    @Twinkie

    "They can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money – she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the “room and board” from her parents, so to speak)."

    Ok, this is weird. You frequently remind us all how great you are, including what an excellent parent you are, as evidenced by how, you assure us, kind, hardworking, unselfish, unspoiled and talented your children are.

    But, since kids only get to be kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled when they have to*earn* their treats (i.e., the stuff not room and board) including working several jobs if that's what it takes, thereby coming to an understanding and respect of other people's hard work because they've done it themselves- and your German in-laws know this, which is why they were careful to be "stingy"- the fact that you criticise them for their good parenting wisdom makes me wonder just how great you and your kids really are.

    Something keeps making the old "protesteth too much" adage keep echoing in my head.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  145. @Jonathan Silber
    When Barack Obama speaks to a Keepin' It Real audience, doesn't he drop his terminal Gs?

    Wow. Just. Wow.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    No, the “wow, just wow” is that you would (a) notice that and (b) remark on it.

  146. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    "And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff – they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn’t make them lesser beings."

    You're obviously a wonderful human being. :)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You’re obviously a wonderful human being. 🙂

    Thanks, but that remains to be seen. I expect a rather harsh judgment from the Old Mighty for my arrogance, violence, and excessive bloodthirstiness.

    But I have tried my best to be honorable, loyal, and fair to my fellow citizens (including, yes, people who serve me food and maids who clean my hotel rooms). I am very tribal in nature, and America is my tribe. To those outside my tribe, I apply what Thomas Friedman called “Hama rules.” That’s not very Christian of me, but nobody’s perfect.

    • Replies: @Moderate Mom
    @Twinkie

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn't leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn't know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Andrew Jackson, @Harry Baldwin, @Twinkie

  147. @black sea
    @Steve Sailer

    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip. I do remember college friends who worked at restaurants telling stories about black patrons ostentatiously presenting them with a tip at the end of meal for six or eight people with the words, "And this is for you."

    "This" turned out to be a five dollar bill.

    I also remember that all of them, including the most socially progressive ones, talked about how their spirits sank when they had to cover a table of black diners. On the other hand, I've read that Muhammad Ali is a famously big tipper, so there's that to consider.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip.

    Research seems to indicate the ignorance of tipping norms seems to explain about *half* of the white-black tipping gap. The other half is apparently “inexplicable” as of now.

  148. @Curle
    @Twinkie

    Good comment.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Good comment.

    Thanks.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?

    I did not realize that until I began to frequent this blog. And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term (I still use “gay” in its proper sense – being frivolously cheerful).

    I once read the following passage about Tolkien from his grandson:

    I vividly remember going to church with him in Bournemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn’t agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.

    Now *that* is a man after mine heart!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term
     
    The gay slang "twink" is short for "twinkle toes", and has no connection to Hostess's famed guilty pleasure-- despite whatever "creamy filling" may suggest.

    Twinkies are renowned as much for their softness as for their color scheme. In Calvin and Hobbes, the bully Moe regularly called Calvin "Twinkie".

    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is "banana". But you won't avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?


    I still use “gay” in its proper sense – being frivolously cheerful
     
    Frivolous! Thus, "gay" for homo is at least half-right.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  149. I thought it was well known that midwesterners are cheap. My parents live in an Arizona retirement community that gets a lot of midwestern snowbirds. I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals. This is a community full of retired civil servants, too, so they have very nice pensions.

    • Replies: @Gallo-Roman
    @AnonAnon


    I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals.
     
    I don't understand this. Unless it's the sort of place where people usually order a bottle of wine with their dinner (and some people just don't drink alcohol), what are they supposed to be ordering to drink? Some flavor of HFCS Prole Pop? Wrong demographic.

    The notion that drinking "only" water with meals is some weird tightwad habit might go some way toward explaining our disturbing land whale problem, though.
    , @Anonymous
    @AnonAnon

    Most of these people probably grew up during the Depression and/or were raised with Depression era values that eschewed waste.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

  150. So many SJW trigger alerts. I’ve tried to counter the rising tide of mass insanity and always failed completely.
    It’s impossible to persuade even a single member of the majority, let alone all of them.
    The USA is not a whit better than the Jonestown cult or a Maoist commune, just with different orthodoxies.

  151. @CJ
    @Jefferson

    The 1970s was a very good period for black pop music - Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Barry White, the Gamble and Huff Philadelphia International Records stuff with soul violins, and lots more. The contrast with today's paint-by-numbers sludge is stark.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    The Cultural Marxists triumphed ghetto rap as a direct rejection of crossover 70’s black soul’s embrace of middle class values. A great way of poking their fingers in the eyes of the middle class was through the obvious sampling of classic soul by rappers who rejected any pretense to middle class expectations.

    A great example was the heavy sampling of The Emotion’s, Earth Wind and Fire’s girl group and backup singers, huge hit “Best of My Love” by B-Rock and the Bizz as “My Baby Daddy”

    http://www.whosampled.com/sample/4221/B-Rock-and-the-Bizz-My-Baby-Daddy-The-Emotions-Best-of-My-Love/

    Folks forget that back then Blacks were capable of writing monster hit records that would be played at both White and Black wedding receptions.

    By the early nineties major black acts, think even Whitney Houston, were not considered authentically black if they were guilty of not “Keeping It Real”.

  152. Blacks can be rude, sure, but you know what group are most infamous for their aggressive and hostile behavior? Middle Easterners, especially Arabs.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @JohnnyWalker123


    you know what group are most infamous for their aggressive and hostile behavior? Middle Easterners, especially Arabs.
     
    Antisemite. There, I said it.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  153. @syonredux
    @Rob McX


    Pretty much everything from more than twenty years ago will soon need a trigger warning. English sitcoms in particular made free and easy use of non-whites and homosexuals (who can forget Mr Humphreys in Are You Being Served??) for comic effect.
     
    I'm quite sure that the classic "I want to be a woman" bit from Monty Python's Life of Brian has moved into the crimethink category.It is, after all, shockingly heteronormative:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA

    Replies: @Unladen Swallow

    I don’t think so, yet, but it might because far fewer people in their teens and twenties know who or what Monty Python is today. BTW, Clint Eastwood got in trouble for making fun of you know who at the Spike Guy’s Choice Awards, apparently the offending material will be excised from all the rebroadcasts according to Spike TV’s senior vice president, you know the guy whose network caters to straight men. This controversy was compared to editing out jokes about the now deceased Paul Walker during a Justin Bieber roast that aired on Spike according to our social betters at Variety magazine.

  154. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    American tipping culture makes me not want to go to the US. It seems to have inflated to the point now where it’s supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.

    • Replies: @David
    @Simon in London

    Drinking with coworkers in London helped me see the good in tipping. Leaving a few bucks on the bar with every round beats rows of happy hour patrons standing meekly at a bar, holding out lengthwise-folded bank notes, silently requesting service from indifferent timeservers.

    Replies: @Deduction

    , @Andrew Jackson
    @Simon in London


    It seems to have inflated to the point now where it’s supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.
     
    In the last 25 years, the cost of eating at a restaurant has not kept pace with inflation in the United States. Immigrant labor, improved management techniques, and the cheaper ingredients used by the big chains are the main reasons for this.

    At the end of the day, if you want to be waited on by professional courteous staff, tip well. If you want to be waited on by the same ghetto trash who you find working in inner city McDonalds, tip accordingly. The economic incentives work themselves out in the long run. Good servers go where the good tips are and they make their living with fewer tables in their section.
  155. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave - genX brother from another mother, I am not a NYC guy , living in the sticks, but, I agree, yeah, you usually can tell. I think the D'Angelo's stuff is probably a 70/30 mix. Having spent a lot of time scoffing down pure grade stuff in the ME MidCoast - the key is how chopped up it is. However, it was the only game in town and for $9.99 on sale, not worth getting worked up over and, really, to do so would be like ordering a "Super Steak Hamburger" at MickyD's and being upset it wasn't Kobe beef.

    Anyway - the thing that hit me the way blacks treat Hispanic and, presumably, white) service staff. It goes beyond the tipping issue. Seriously, it was horrible to watch. And, yes, the Hispanic river hopping lady and her issue are basically destroying the "America the Was"(tm), but, hell, she was working hard, seemed to share my fairly dour RC world view (rewarded it with an in crowd serving), and, yet, was treated as a piece of shit by a black woman who, let's face it, has been given every advantage in this world of ours, but was nursing an Atlas sized chip on her shoulder far greater than the Jewish show runner on Mad Men that Steve is always banging on about that will, alas, only get bigger every year as she gets older.

    Enjoy every lobster roll, even if it is probably not 100% lobster; at places where its real, e.g., Red's Eats or Larson's Lunch Box - that shit is the nectar of the gods!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Just to clarify, the Zabar’s stuff consisted 100% of crawfish tails, so it was obvious. And they just sold it in plastic containers on the shelf next to the shrimp salad, etc. – I don’t think they sold any prepared lobster rolls.

  156. @Clifford Brown
    @Dave Pinsen

    Yoni Appelbaum, who wrote the magnum opus in The Atlantic on the racialized history of American community pools, is Ta-Nehisi Coates' protege. Allegedly, Coates pulled "Cynic" Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates' articles. Not sure I believe the story completely in light of how much TNC seems to limit open debate on his articles.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/07/152205683/from-commenter-to-columnist-the-atlantics-cynic

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @PB and J, @International Jew

    Nice to see an African American give a hand to a Jew for a change.

  157. @Reg Cæsar
    @Dave Pinsen


    Zabar’s in New York used to sell a lobster salad for years that was plainly crawfish salad. Everyone knew and no one cared, because it was great. Then some tourist or someone sued them, and now it’s labeled “Zabster” salad.
     
    Don't tell them about egg cream! No egg, no cream!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Heh. I don’t think they even have that.

  158. @Clifford Brown
    @Dave Pinsen

    Yoni Appelbaum, who wrote the magnum opus in The Atlantic on the racialized history of American community pools, is Ta-Nehisi Coates' protege. Allegedly, Coates pulled "Cynic" Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates' articles. Not sure I believe the story completely in light of how much TNC seems to limit open debate on his articles.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/07/152205683/from-commenter-to-columnist-the-atlantics-cynic

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @PB and J, @International Jew

    Not his protege, I can assure you. “Cynic” stood out as an extremely erudite commenter (back 5 years ago when I regularly read the Atlantic online), the type who seems like he has a well-earned PhD in some humanities field.

    (EDIT – I looked at the NPR story and, yep, PhD candidate in History at Brandeis. Not that I’m prescient, rather that the details of his contributions heavily implied “I study original texts for a living.”)

    But unlike Coates: (1) he never went the journalism route, (2) he offers no diversity to the staff at the Atlantic. Wait — actually he DOES offer diversity, by having deep knowledge of a subject rather than being someone whose first talent is constructing wordcastles from whatever wet sand he is assigned.

  159. @yaqub the mad scientist
    "Fraught" is another contemporary SJW writer word of the month, like "trope" and "shameful" .

    Replies: @Terrahawk

    I have noticed that when the SJW’s talk about anything old that is race related they act like Southern belles about to retire to their fainting couches.

    The whole reaction to things like this leave me with a troubled feeling. They show an utter lack of understanding of history, context, and critical thinking. Broad based thinking like that leads to very bad outcomes.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Terrahawk


    They show an utter lack of understanding of history, context, and critical thinking. Broad based thinking like that leads to very bad outcomes.
     
    Agreed. Wholesale destruction of old books is just over the horizon. It'll happen as libraries pare back their non-digital "materials".
  160. @Tarrou
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Yeah, things haven't changed. My SO tends bar in a black-majority town, and the tales are depressingly common. The slang is a bit funny too, the servers refer to blacks as "Canadians", another group known for not tipping. As in "Good luck, you just got sat a six-top of Canadians!". According to the staff there, blacks also send their food back to the kitchen at a rate at least five or ten times that of whites. FWIW, the second worst group is middle-aged white women in groups.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Brutusale, @Moderate Mom

    I have friends in the industry, and the term “Canadians” applied to black customers is a common usage. In restaurants on the Gulf Coast of Florida, one of the first things waitstaff try to glean is whether or not you’re a real, no-tip Canadian.

    My poor nephew learned his lesson pretty quickly. The summer between his high school graduation and college he was slinging lobsters at a place on the Maine coast and making some serious coin in tips. Then he took a job at an Outback just outside Boston to make a few bucks while attending college in the city. His second table was an 8-top of blacks, whereupon he proceeded to listen to complaints about the steaks and ran around providing a steady stream of sugar water refills, all for a tip of ZERO.

    He said he looked around the restaurant, saw its demographic split, then walked into the kitchen and tossed his apron to the manager on the way out the back door.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Brutusale

    Tipping is a reason restaurant insiders will give as to why sit down establishments are in short supply in black areas.

    They can't keep quality wait staff. Either applicants won't show up or do as your nephew quit after a short while.

    Replies: @AnAnon

  161. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    I’m British and find tipping weird. Yes, I’ll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here’s an idea restaurant owners – tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge….or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    • Replies: @disambiguated
    @Deduction

    By all means, please stay home, or go elsewhere.

    Replies: @Deduction, @Beach

    , @International Jew
    @Deduction

    Next time you dine in America, try this: ask to see the owner after your meal and, hopefully in the presence of the waiter too, say, "This was an excellent meal and the service was splendid too. I'd like to suggest you reward this fine gentleman [head-nod towards the waiter] with 25% of my tab."

    Should be interesting.

    You're absolutely right that tipping is patronizing. And how ironic that the USA, with its globetrotting pretentions to equality and the casting off of class distinctions, should be the world capital of tipping.

    For the record, I do tip: because I don't want to piss people off, and because as a conservative I value "settled expectations". But it is a stupid institution: inefficient as an incentive system, rife with free-riding, arbitrary and, yes, patronizing. In its absence, no waiters will starve. Their wages will rise to a market-clearing level as they do in the other 99% of jobs, where no one gets tipped.

    , @Matra
    @Deduction

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere

    Then there's the tax (or taxes) being added on top of the listed price. Two extra charges on top the listed price feels like false advertising to foreigners.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @dfordoom
    @Deduction

    "I’m British and find tipping weird."

    I'm Australian and it strikes me the same way. It's kind of demeaning.

  162. @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.
     
    Well, that may be, technically. But I do not feel that I was ill-served [pun intended] by my father's advice to tip generously. Waiters and waitresses live on tips, and the extra few percent doesn't mean as much to me as it does to them, so I always err on the more generous side.

    By the way, maybe Midwesterners tip parsimoniously because they are mostly Germans in ethnic origin. In Germany, Trinkgeld ("Drink money" = tipping) is not so generous or automatic. Typically it is "leftover" money rounded up to a moderate round number to reward good service (e.g. the bill is 8.75 DM, so leave 10 DM including Trinkgeld). At least that was the custom I learned when I was in Germany. The first time I left an American-sized tip, my German counterpart said "No, that's too much, we don't tip like that in Germany," and made me take back most of it.

    Well, whatever the reason, I dread going out to eat with my wife's folks at restaurants. Aside from what I see as unfairness of it, it's a rather bad scene getting in and out of their $80,000+ cars with them and seeing them leave a small tip. In the past, I even tried tipping separately, but my mother-in-law made such a scene of it, the embarrassment was even worse.

    My in-laws are great people in many ways, very proper, traditional, moral, hardworking, exceedingly law-abiding, and so on, but they can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money - she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the "room and board" from her parents, so to speak).

    Replies: @PB and J, @disambiguated, @JSM

    The Germanic norm would appear to be, shall we say, “price-conscious” in regards to both goods and services. Whorefinder above was confused by not distinguishing between the two, assuming that paying high prices for goods implies willingness to pay lavishly for services as well.

    So a clarifying question is whether the in-laws, or tight-fisted Midwesterners more broadly, are inclined to order one of the more expensive items on the menu and then “save money” on the tip, or whether they tend to order cheaply as well (e.g. the other person who mentioned well-dressed pensioners ordering only water with their meal).

    Another question – how demanding are they in terms of service and food quality, e.g. sending a steak back if it’s cooked to medium instead of medium rare as requested? Servers usually prefer (demanding, spendthrift) to (self-effacing, stingy); both are better than the dreaded (demanding, insultingly cheap) combination.

    You are of course completely correct in noting that a generous gratuity has far more utility to a hard-working server than to an upper-income customer, particularly once you understand that waitstaff make practically nothing from their employer in many states.

  163. At a relative’s party overhearing younger women discuss Mad Men as though it was a Ken Burns product, one exclaiming definitively that it was incomparably good to be a man in that time, I wanted to walk by and snort, “Vietnam.”

  164. @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.
     
    Well, that may be, technically. But I do not feel that I was ill-served [pun intended] by my father's advice to tip generously. Waiters and waitresses live on tips, and the extra few percent doesn't mean as much to me as it does to them, so I always err on the more generous side.

    By the way, maybe Midwesterners tip parsimoniously because they are mostly Germans in ethnic origin. In Germany, Trinkgeld ("Drink money" = tipping) is not so generous or automatic. Typically it is "leftover" money rounded up to a moderate round number to reward good service (e.g. the bill is 8.75 DM, so leave 10 DM including Trinkgeld). At least that was the custom I learned when I was in Germany. The first time I left an American-sized tip, my German counterpart said "No, that's too much, we don't tip like that in Germany," and made me take back most of it.

    Well, whatever the reason, I dread going out to eat with my wife's folks at restaurants. Aside from what I see as unfairness of it, it's a rather bad scene getting in and out of their $80,000+ cars with them and seeing them leave a small tip. In the past, I even tried tipping separately, but my mother-in-law made such a scene of it, the embarrassment was even worse.

    My in-laws are great people in many ways, very proper, traditional, moral, hardworking, exceedingly law-abiding, and so on, but they can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money - she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the "room and board" from her parents, so to speak).

    Replies: @PB and J, @disambiguated, @JSM

    And now you know why they have $80,000.00+ cars and you don’t.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @disambiguated


    And now you know why they have $80,000.00+ cars and you don’t.
     
    I don't have $80,000+ cars because I don't want one. I can afford multiple six-figure cars if I wanted to do so. I just don't see the point. I don't resent or envy those who have them either (I have acquaintances who have cars that cost $250K-$500K). I am not that into cars - they are just tools to me. I just want something 1) reliable, 2) nondescript (doesn't attract attention), and 3) has a good balance of acceleration, handling, and power (for possible evasive maneuvers, load-bearing, etc.).
  165. @Deduction
    @Twinkie

    I'm British and find tipping weird. Yes, I'll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here's an idea restaurant owners - tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge....or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    Replies: @disambiguated, @International Jew, @Matra, @dfordoom

    By all means, please stay home, or go elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Deduction
    @disambiguated

    I criticised an aspect of American culture. One that I abide by to be respectful, but still an American takes the criticism personally rather than engaging with the reasoning.

    No wonder all this PC nonsense is rooted in your country....

    'If you dont accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally, don't visit'...what a joke...

    Replies: @keypusher, @Ichneumon

    , @Beach
    @disambiguated

    No, he has a point. My sister (we're Americans) has complained about the requirement of tipping wait staff for years. Her attitude is: Isn't it enough that I'm paying $50 for a dinner, the ingredients of which probably cost a fraction of that - must I pay your employees, as well? She tips anyway, but it's always seemed something of a con to her that American restaurants are allowed to get away with employee "pay" of a couple of bucks an hour.

    I always tip 20%; the service would have to be abysmal for me to tip less. I'm not sure the European suggestion of simply adding the gratuity to the bill is right, either. I've been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants, because they're getting paid, whether they get around to you, or not. I remember an especially egregious Bahama experience of no less that four waitresses standing around polishing silverware, very slowly, while multiple tables were clearly waiting to have their orders taken.

    I don't look down on anyone I tip, nor do I consider tipping ostentatious. Americans are underpaid, starting with the minimum wage, which keeps everyone's pay above it lower than it should be, in a knock on effect. American service industries are quite happy to let customers pay their employees, so they don't have to. Until that changes, you're not scoring any culture points or showing service people any respect by not tipping.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Ichneumon

  166. @OsRazor
    Tipping requires empathy. Every study out there says blacks have low levels of empathy. Spending on yourself like a drunk sailor on shore leave, on the other hand, reeks of lack of impulse control. Blacks have low impulse control, drunk or otherwise.

    Probably most revealing was a segment in the British car show "Top Gear" where the host reviewed a Cadillac Escalade, pretty much concluded it was crap (in every meaningful way in terms of engineering, performance, quality compared to European SUVs), and then went out on a ride in the Escalade with a British black celebrity, hoping the black celebrity could clue him in on why the Escalade was so popular among blacks. The black celebrity was confused. Why wouldn't one want the Escalade? It was big and ostentatious--no other black who saw you in it could not but be impressed. Most revealing, the black celebrity said that a black guy wouldn't hesitate to purchase the Escalade even though he still lived with his mother, could only afford to fill it with gasoline more or less one gallon at a time, etc. None of that mattered. What mattered was that the black guy had the Escalade and every one he knew knew it.

    Replies: @keypusher, @Lot, @SEATAF

    You cannot compare the Escalade to Euro makes. It is bigger inside than every single Euro brand SUV sold in the USA, and is on a truck rather than sedan frame. Of course, being much bigger, it will be less fun to drive.

  167. @Curle
    @EriK

    Did she attend a for-profit open access college? These cesspools are pumping out more PhDs and MBAs, etc. in a year than are produced by real colleges in a decade. Turn around and you are likely to bump into one. Probably teaching some diversity class or pseudo motivation seminar.

    Replies: @EriK

    Nope. State school.

  168. @Ed
    @advancedatheist

    You want haughty behavior, try waiting tables during Mother's Day or Easter. These days tend to bring out poorer African Americans to restaurants. Where they proceed to wreak all kinds of havoc by making staff run through hoops only to leave little in way of tips. "This isn't right!", "I wanted this not that!" They'd shriek.

    I remember servers would call out sick or dump their shifts on new unsuspecting servers.

    Replies: @Andrew Jackson

    The worst day is Valentines day at least where I currently work.

  169. @Simon in London
    @Twinkie

    American tipping culture makes me not want to go to the US. It seems to have inflated to the point now where it's supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.

    Replies: @David, @Andrew Jackson

    Drinking with coworkers in London helped me see the good in tipping. Leaving a few bucks on the bar with every round beats rows of happy hour patrons standing meekly at a bar, holding out lengthwise-folded bank notes, silently requesting service from indifferent timeservers.

    • Replies: @Deduction
    @David

    That's a zero sum game you're playing. Like all forms of bribery.

  170. @Simon in London
    @Twinkie

    American tipping culture makes me not want to go to the US. It seems to have inflated to the point now where it's supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.

    Replies: @David, @Andrew Jackson

    It seems to have inflated to the point now where it’s supposed to be something like +25% on the list price.

    In the last 25 years, the cost of eating at a restaurant has not kept pace with inflation in the United States. Immigrant labor, improved management techniques, and the cheaper ingredients used by the big chains are the main reasons for this.

    At the end of the day, if you want to be waited on by professional courteous staff, tip well. If you want to be waited on by the same ghetto trash who you find working in inner city McDonalds, tip accordingly. The economic incentives work themselves out in the long run. Good servers go where the good tips are and they make their living with fewer tables in their section.

  171. @Auntie Analogue
    Is it possible that country clubs simply include a 15% gratuity on their members dining bills?

    Replies: @Muse, @Anon

    No.

    Many clubs make an appeal at the end of the year from all members to contribute to what used to be known as a Christmas, now end of year bonus for the house staff. Every board member knows if you are a cheapskate using this method.

  172. Lot says:

    My Midwestern German and Jewish family was strictly 15% rounded up to the nearest dollar, service good or bad, and I am the same. We also never order alcohol, except if the entire table wants a bottle of wine or sub $3 beers, never ask for extra anything, and never complain much less send food back. We’d be mortified to leave a penny less than 15%, and I am surprised to hear of upper class Midwesterners regularly going below 15%.

    I don’t want every meal to end with me casting judgment on how people with tough jobs handled their work, thus the invariable 15+ formula. I include tax however, so 16.2% of the pre tax amount.

    The awkward exception is if I am brought something free on the house, in which case the tip goes up by half its estimated value. This happens enough to me that I have a rule for it. Leaving nothing extra is ungrateful, but paying for all of it would encourage random unwanted items.

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @Lot

    Lot (comment #172) says that 16.2% of the pre-tax amount is the same as 15% of the after-tax amount. So what is the tax rate? Calling t the tax per $1 of meal, we have .15(1+t)=.162(1), from which t = (.162/.15) - 1 = 1.08 - 1 = .08 = 8% tax rate on restaurant meals.

  173. How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors. Tipwell and you believe your status obliges you to serve society as part and parcel of your social position. It is required service for the cultured well-to-do to spend some time giving away money on the local charity circuit and appearing in the society glossy mags each year.

    Cultures that believe their inferiors exist purely to benefit them do not tip well. Let his be lesson on who you decide to work and vote for.

    • Replies: @Greg Pandatshang
    @Muse

    Cultures that believe their inferiors exist purely to benefit them do not tip well ... cultures such as Canada?

    , @Anonymous
    @Muse

    "How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors."

    This notion that wait staff are our "social inferiors" is very strange to me.

    Many waiters and waitresses are very popular people with lots of friends. They often have very good personalities and are quite attractive. Many will grow up to be quite affluent eventually and it's not unusual for them to be from relatively well-off families.

    Replies: @Grumpy, @Ed

  174. • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @Truth

    It's only the lowered expectations and affirmative action for blacks that is doing that.

    Replies: @P

    , @Anonymous
    @Truth

    Face palm....

    You realize that having some sort of diploma, is likely a prerequisite to even getting into the US right?

    Keep em coming 'Truth'....always entertaining!

    Replies: @Truth

  175. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    A person I know worked in a relatively upscale nightclub that certainly wasn’t black but did have plenty of upscale black customers. For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule. I’ve seen black guys pay for drinks with $100 bill and not even tip a buck.

    • Replies: @Justpassingby
    @Ben H


    For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule.
     
    Their only experience in life is welfare or an NBA salary. They may think everyone is either on the first or getting the second.

    Replies: @Ben H

  176. sb says:

    Non Americans are always amazed as to why tipping is so accepted and so ubiquitous in the US .
    Well those of us from other English speaking countries anyway .
    It seems a poor substitute for paying proper wages and encourages anti egalitarianism and a rigid class basis for different occupations -you tip the barber but not the dentist right ?

    Still when we’re there we do it even if through gritted teeth -although apparently not Russell Crowe

    • Replies: @Andrew Jackson
    @sb


    Non Americans are always amazed as to why tipping is so accepted and so ubiquitous in the US .
    Well those of us from other English speaking countries anyway .
    It seems a poor substitute for paying proper wages and encourages anti egalitarianism and a rigid class basis for different occupations -you tip the barber but not the dentist right ?
     
    As an American waiter, I agree that tipping isn't necessarily the best system. Most Americans haven't even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don't really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is "bad") don't really understand that what's giving them "good" service isn't the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it's the fear of management, just like everywhere else.

    Also consider the fact that the tipping system creates the incentive for a server to work more tables than he can honestly handle. You'd rather get 15% on selling $1500 than 20% on selling $1000.

    Americans tend to be crude people who want crude service from someone who pretends to be their overly enthusiastic friend. Asians are the complete opposite, and if they know how to tip, are pretty much the ideal customers. Europeans are somewhere in between. That said, in the last couple years, Euros and Asians have gotten a lot better at tipping. I almost prefer to "roll the dice" and wait on them these days. Arabs are the worst. They tip like American ghetto blacks, but more consistently so. Jews run the gamut. I definitely don't mind when AIPAC is in town as long as you don't get too many of those reedy high-pitched neurotic sounding jews who tend to have a lot of special needs.

    Replies: @Ichneumon

  177. @keypusher
    @OsRazor

    During the school year you see a lot of Escalades at dropoff at Upper East Side private schools. I don't see black students getting out of them.

    Replies: @J, @Forbes

    Could be a car service instead of family owned vehicle.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @J

    They're not, though. Car services in New York mostly use Town Cars (and, increasingly, Toyota sedans) and Highlanders. The Highlander is a lot cheaper than the Escalade.

  178. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Truth
    Uh-Oh, Part XXXII...


    https://face2faceafrica.com/article/african-immigrants-in-america-education#.VXbgIDVRVok

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous

    It’s only the lowered expectations and affirmative action for blacks that is doing that.

    • Replies: @P
    @The most deplorable one

    Nah, immigrants from Africa are highly selected. The average IQ of black African immigrants to America may be 100 or more. I'd expect some regression to the mean in the second generation though.

    Replies: @Truth

  179. @Truth
    Uh-Oh, Part XXXII...


    https://face2faceafrica.com/article/african-immigrants-in-america-education#.VXbgIDVRVok

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Anonymous

    Face palm….

    You realize that having some sort of diploma, is likely a prerequisite to even getting into the US right?

    Keep em coming ‘Truth’….always entertaining!

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Anonymous


    You realize that having some sort of diploma, is likely a prerequisite to even getting into the US right?
     
    YOU REALIZE that having some sort of diploma is LIKELY a prerequisite...

    I'm taking it you learned your research skills at the University of of Zambia as well?

  180. @The most deplorable one
    @Truth

    It's only the lowered expectations and affirmative action for blacks that is doing that.

    Replies: @P

    Nah, immigrants from Africa are highly selected. The average IQ of black African immigrants to America may be 100 or more. I’d expect some regression to the mean in the second generation though.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @P

    I have never heard of any IQ test for Africans wanting to immigrate to the US. If you have a link as such, please share.

  181. The Escalade has an MSRP of $72,970. I don’t understand how so many blacks afford to drive these vehicles.

  182. @sb
    Non Americans are always amazed as to why tipping is so accepted and so ubiquitous in the US .
    Well those of us from other English speaking countries anyway .
    It seems a poor substitute for paying proper wages and encourages anti egalitarianism and a rigid class basis for different occupations -you tip the barber but not the dentist right ?

    Still when we're there we do it even if through gritted teeth -although apparently not Russell Crowe

    Replies: @Andrew Jackson

    Non Americans are always amazed as to why tipping is so accepted and so ubiquitous in the US .
    Well those of us from other English speaking countries anyway .
    It seems a poor substitute for paying proper wages and encourages anti egalitarianism and a rigid class basis for different occupations -you tip the barber but not the dentist right ?

    As an American waiter, I agree that tipping isn’t necessarily the best system. Most Americans haven’t even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don’t really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is “bad”) don’t really understand that what’s giving them “good” service isn’t the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it’s the fear of management, just like everywhere else.

    Also consider the fact that the tipping system creates the incentive for a server to work more tables than he can honestly handle. You’d rather get 15% on selling $1500 than 20% on selling $1000.

    Americans tend to be crude people who want crude service from someone who pretends to be their overly enthusiastic friend. Asians are the complete opposite, and if they know how to tip, are pretty much the ideal customers. Europeans are somewhere in between. That said, in the last couple years, Euros and Asians have gotten a lot better at tipping. I almost prefer to “roll the dice” and wait on them these days. Arabs are the worst. They tip like American ghetto blacks, but more consistently so. Jews run the gamut. I definitely don’t mind when AIPAC is in town as long as you don’t get too many of those reedy high-pitched neurotic sounding jews who tend to have a lot of special needs.

    • Replies: @Ichneumon
    @Andrew Jackson


    Most Americans haven’t even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don’t really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is “bad”) don’t really understand that what’s giving them “good” service isn’t the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it’s the fear of management, just like everywhere else.
     
    Here's one of the several things you're missing: Management deals with obvious incompetence or personality issues, sure, but seldom has the time to watch the servers as if issuing report cards (and often the way that management would like servers to perform isn't what customers actually want/appreciate).

    Tipping is a much more direct and meaningful feedback regarding customer satisfaction with the service, and although you're correct that the individual $8/$10 from a given "couple of yokels" (charming) isn't itself a huge incentive to bust your hump (or not), in aggregate a server's tips give him/her direct information about what makes for the most satisfied customers (e.g. "I tried refilling drinks more often and I'm taking home more tips now" or "Cindy keeps making more tips than I do, I'm going to ask her for pointers.").

    And the biggest upside for customers in a tip-for-service environment is that people who happen to not be cut out to be good servers get discouraged by poor tip take-homes and tend to drop out of the restaurant biz to go do something else, while outstanding servers make good money and stay on the job. It's a strong and automatic filter for competence, and while in theory management is able to do that as well, in practice a lot of places are reluctant to let anyone go as long as they show up on time and just don't commit egregious blunders (never mind that they're sub-mediocre at the job).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  183. One of the revealing things is how in white friendly culture, blacks are always assumed to have the virtues most prized by upper middle class white people rather than virtues that actual blacks consider important.

    So in any ‘general audience’ movie, black characters played by Morgan Freeman or whoever always have very strong self control, a cerebral outlook, are careful with money in general, have a strong work ethic and are immune to financial or any other corruption.

    In contrast actual blacks endorse the virtues of looking cool, being funny, spontaneous, emotional and sensual and scamming whenever possible.

  184. JSM says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, You’re supposed to tip from the pre-tax amount. That’s not being stingy, it’s following traditional tipping etiquette.
     
    Well, that may be, technically. But I do not feel that I was ill-served [pun intended] by my father's advice to tip generously. Waiters and waitresses live on tips, and the extra few percent doesn't mean as much to me as it does to them, so I always err on the more generous side.

    By the way, maybe Midwesterners tip parsimoniously because they are mostly Germans in ethnic origin. In Germany, Trinkgeld ("Drink money" = tipping) is not so generous or automatic. Typically it is "leftover" money rounded up to a moderate round number to reward good service (e.g. the bill is 8.75 DM, so leave 10 DM including Trinkgeld). At least that was the custom I learned when I was in Germany. The first time I left an American-sized tip, my German counterpart said "No, that's too much, we don't tip like that in Germany," and made me take back most of it.

    Well, whatever the reason, I dread going out to eat with my wife's folks at restaurants. Aside from what I see as unfairness of it, it's a rather bad scene getting in and out of their $80,000+ cars with them and seeing them leave a small tip. In the past, I even tried tipping separately, but my mother-in-law made such a scene of it, the embarrassment was even worse.

    My in-laws are great people in many ways, very proper, traditional, moral, hardworking, exceedingly law-abiding, and so on, but they can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money - she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the "room and board" from her parents, so to speak).

    Replies: @PB and J, @disambiguated, @JSM

    “They can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money – she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the “room and board” from her parents, so to speak).”

    Ok, this is weird. You frequently remind us all how great you are, including what an excellent parent you are, as evidenced by how, you assure us, kind, hardworking, unselfish, unspoiled and talented your children are.

    But, since kids only get to be kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled when they have to*earn* their treats (i.e., the stuff not room and board) including working several jobs if that’s what it takes, thereby coming to an understanding and respect of other people’s hard work because they’ve done it themselves- and your German in-laws know this, which is why they were careful to be “stingy”- the fact that you criticise them for their good parenting wisdom makes me wonder just how great you and your kids really are.

    Something keeps making the old “protesteth too much” adage keep echoing in my head.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JSM


    Ok, this is weird. You frequently remind us all how great you are, including what an excellent parent you are, as evidenced by how, you assure us, kind, hardworking, unselfish, unspoiled and talented your children are.
     
    That's right, everything I touch turns awesome due to my sheer awesomeness. Now BOW BEFORE ME!

    Okay, now that we have that understanding...

    But, since kids only get to be kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled when they have to*earn* their treats
     
    Since I subscribe to Aristotelian ethics, I tend to think that one can take something good to an excessive extent and thereby worsen it. You don't have to make your kids buy their own clothes with their work money to teach them to be "kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled." There is a good zone of balance between depriving your children and indulging them. And although I have emphasized hard work to my children, what I have emphasized even more to them is *service* to something greater than themselves - God, country, and their fellow citizens, especially those who are worse off.

    the fact that you criticise them for their good parenting wisdom makes me wonder just how great you and your kids really are.
     
    Oh, is that "the fact"? I don't think you "wonder" here. I think you got me pegged as one of those eeeevil Asian immigrants ever since I declined to take my American (and -born) wife and children "back" to Asia per your asinine suggestion. Be honest. It doesn't matter what I say or do. You have your opinion and you aren't going to change it.
  185. @Twinkie
    @Curle


    Good comment.
     
    Thanks.

    OT, have you ever considered a different pseudonymic handle? I get the meaning of the handle given your self-description, and I also understand you are married, but do you realize that homosexuals use a shortened version of your handle to refer to each other?
     
    I did not realize that until I began to frequent this blog. And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term (I still use "gay" in its proper sense - being frivolously cheerful).

    I once read the following passage about Tolkien from his grandson:

    I vividly remember going to church with him in Bournemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn't agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.
     
    Now *that* is a man after mine heart!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term

    The gay slang “twink” is short for “twinkle toes”, and has no connection to Hostess’s famed guilty pleasure– despite whatever “creamy filling” may suggest.

    Twinkies are renowned as much for their softness as for their color scheme. In Calvin and Hobbes, the bully Moe regularly called Calvin “Twinkie”.

    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is “banana”. But you won’t avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?

    I still use “gay” in its proper sense – being frivolously cheerful

    Frivolous! Thus, “gay” for homo is at least half-right.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is “banana”. But you won’t avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?
     
    True enough. I abhor this ridiculous sexualization (and in particular, homosexualization) of everything in today's mass culture. It's coarse and undignified. Some friendly rough banter is fine (and even cohesion-building) in locker rooms and barracks, but it's just everywhere now, even in mixed company.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  186. @Muse
    How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors. Tipwell and you believe your status obliges you to serve society as part and parcel of your social position. It is required service for the cultured well-to-do to spend some time giving away money on the local charity circuit and appearing in the society glossy mags each year.

    Cultures that believe their inferiors exist purely to benefit them do not tip well. Let his be lesson on who you decide to work and vote for.

    Replies: @Greg Pandatshang, @Anonymous

    Cultures that believe their inferiors exist purely to benefit them do not tip well … cultures such as Canada?

  187. Re tipping and race: I started driving for Uber on the side recently, and >90% of the time no one tips, as one of the features of the service is that it’s cashless. But two black women did tip me recently: a businesses executive type with a British accent, who I gave a ride to Newark airport from the city of Newark (about a 15 minute ride, though I helped her with her bags). She gave me 3 singles on a ~$15 fare, and mentioned something about not having more change.

    The other one is a chambermaid at a local hotel. I’ve given her (5 minute) rides to work twice, and each time she’s tipped me a single on a fare that was $7 with the 1.5x “surge” pricing. Nice lady. She said some recent Bangladeshi guests were very messy.

    I was surprised that folks like her use Uber, but she’s not a one-off: I’ve given people rides to their jobs at Home Depot and Staples, where the cost of their commute probably eats up an hour or two of their salaries.

    • Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway - Arunaa dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a "just the facts" approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who's dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying "International Marketing" at the local college - there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave - but she was actually pretty friendly.

    Replies: @Truth

    , @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway - Aruna' s dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a "just the facts" approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who's dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying "International Marketing" at the local college - there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave - but she was actually pretty friendly.

    , @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway - Arunas dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a "just the facts" approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who's dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying "International Marketing" at the local college - there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave - but she was actually pretty friendly.

  188. @disambiguated
    @Deduction

    By all means, please stay home, or go elsewhere.

    Replies: @Deduction, @Beach

    I criticised an aspect of American culture. One that I abide by to be respectful, but still an American takes the criticism personally rather than engaging with the reasoning.

    No wonder all this PC nonsense is rooted in your country….

    ‘If you dont accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally, don’t visit’…what a joke…

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @Deduction

    I am genuinely sorry. Most Americans are not like that.

    , @Ichneumon
    @Deduction

    I had a similar reaction to your post as did "disambiguated", and while I can't speak for him, I can explain why I was tempted to make a similar retort.

    It wasn't because you "criticised an aspect of American culture". It wasn't because I "took the criticism personally". It wasn't because I expect anyone to "accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally" (charming hyperbolic straw man you've got there...)

    It was because you came across as more than a bit of a condescending wanker, informing us benighted rubes of simple indisputable facts we had somehow failed to grasp until you came along to educate us (telling us how services "should" be paid, how tipping "is" akin to paying a busker, "is" patronizing, etc.), and implying that we're all too dim to have ever considered the possibility of an obvious alternative ("here's an idea restaurant owners...").

    And no, that's not taking anything personally, that's just being appalled at your apparent effrontery, and at the irony of you dismissing tipping as "patronizing" (no more so than getting paid by anyone for anything) in a post that itself seems drippingly patronizing.

    Still, I (and perhaps "disambiguated") would have let the post slide with a shrug of "everyone's entitled to their own supercilious opinion" were it not for the final line of, "It genuinely puts me off going", which almost seems to beg for a response of, "well then don't, which ought to make everyone happier if it bothers you as much as you make it out to and you're going to be vocally judgmental and disdainful about it".

    Perhaps that's not how you meant it, but that's how it sounded -- and your subsequent "PC" broad-brush seems to reveal the attitude is real, not just an accidental impression.

    Have you ever seen the scene with English Bob on the train in "Unforgiven"?

  189. @Chrisnonymous
    @International Jew

    It could be that they were "progressive" clubs. If I remember correctly, I was in Lao PDR when I was told that the communists had ended tipping as it was associated with colonialism... Or I might be remembering George Orwell writing about the Spanish civil war... Either way, it is true that tipping is connected with servitude.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Deduction

    Yes.

    In my mind, you tip people lower than you. Like a homeless man who helps carry your bag at an Indian train station.

    You pay your equals. Like a taxi driver, or a waiter or anyone else with a job.

    American tipping culture is so obnoxious, so ostentatious.

  190. @Mr. Anon
    An aquaintenance of mine, who worked as a waitress, told me that high-school kids on Prom night were some of the worst tippers, and they don't order booze which makes the tab lower too. And that's even for the kids whose parents given them money to take their date out to dinner. One prom night, she said, a whole bunch of them came in, filled up the whole restaurant, and barely left a couple of bucks between them. As they left, the wait-staff all told them: "F**k you. Don't come back."

    Replies: @Deduction

    Ridiculous that this kind of thing happens.

    No tips. Pay the staff properly.

    Easy.

  191. @AnonAnon
    I thought it was well known that midwesterners are cheap. My parents live in an Arizona retirement community that gets a lot of midwestern snowbirds. I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals. This is a community full of retired civil servants, too, so they have very nice pensions.

    Replies: @Gallo-Roman, @Anonymous

    I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals.

    I don’t understand this. Unless it’s the sort of place where people usually order a bottle of wine with their dinner (and some people just don’t drink alcohol), what are they supposed to be ordering to drink? Some flavor of HFCS Prole Pop? Wrong demographic.

    The notion that drinking “only” water with meals is some weird tightwad habit might go some way toward explaining our disturbing land whale problem, though.

  192. @JohnnyWalker123
    Blacks can be rude, sure, but you know what group are most infamous for their aggressive and hostile behavior? Middle Easterners, especially Arabs.

    Replies: @International Jew

    you know what group are most infamous for their aggressive and hostile behavior? Middle Easterners, especially Arabs.

    Antisemite. There, I said it.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @International Jew

    I actually wasn't referring to Jews.

    Here's a good post to read:

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/02/in-your-face-to-feel-your-pain.html


    The In-Your-Face to Feel-Your-Pain Gradient -- The Dane-Muslim cartoon controversy illuminates one of the less understood dynamics in the modern world, which I call the In-Your-Face to Feel-Your-Pain Gradient.

    All over the world, peoples differ in terms of how in-your-face they tend to be. The ultra-polite Japanese, for example, who might be the most sensitive people on earth to other people's emotional discomfort, are deeply distressed by the kind of brusque assertiveness that's common in South China. Thus the Japanese developed elaborate forms of business entertaining, while the South Chinese businessmen love to bargain aggressively when stone sober.

    But the particular gradient that's most relevant to us is the one that runs between the Middle East and Northwestern Europe. Northwestern Europe and its overseas offshoots are probably second only to Japan as being Feel-Your-Pain cultures where people don't like social friction and don't like to see others upset. In contrast, the Middle East is perhaps the most in-your-face place on Earth. Here's P.J. O'Rourke's memorable description in The Atlantic of a Red Cross attempt at food distribution during the 2003 Iraq Attaq:





    "I was outside Safwan [in Iraq] on March 28, on the roof of a Kuwait Red Crescent tractor-trailer full of food donations. Below, a couple of hundred shoving, shouldering, kneeing, kicking Iraqi men and boys were grabbing at boxes of food.

    Red Crescent volunteers provided the boxes, gingerly, to the mob. Each white carton would be grasped by three or four or five belligerents and pulled in three or four or five directions—tug-of-Congolese-civil-war.

    Every person in the mob seemed to be arguing with every other person. Giving in to impulses to push themselves forward and push others away, shouting Iraqis were propelled in circles. A short, plump, bald man sank in the roil. A small boy, red-faced and crying, was crushed between two bellowing fat men. An old man was trampled trying to join the fray.

    The Iraqis were snatching the food as if they were starving, but they couldn't have been starving or they wouldn't have been able to snatch so well. Most looked fully fed. Some were too fit and active. Everyone behind the trailer was expending a lot of calories at noon on a 90° day.

    Looking out, I saw irrigated patches in the desert, at about the same density as the patches on the uniform of a mildly diligent Boy Scout. The tomatoes were ripe. Nannies, billies, and kids browsed between garden plots. Goat bolognese was on offer, at least for some locals.

    There was no reason for people to clobber one another. Even assuming that each man in the riot—and each boy—was the head of a family, and assuming the family was huge, there was enough food in the truck. Mohammed al-Kandari, a doctor from the Kuwait Red Crescent Society, had explained this to the Iraqis when the trailer arrived. Al-Kandari was a forceful explainer. He resembled a beneficent version of Bluto in the Popeye comics, or Bluto in Animal House.

    Al-Kandari had persuaded the Iraqis to form ranks. They looked patient and grateful, the way we privately imagine the recipients of food donations looking when we're writing checks to charities. Then the trailer was opened, and everything went to hell.

    Al-Kandari marched through the donnybrook and slammed the trailer doors shut. He harangued the Iraqis. They lined up again. The trailer was opened, and everything went to hell.

    Al-Kandari waded in and closed the trailer doors again. He swung his large arms in parallel arcs at the Iraqis. "Line up!" he boomed; "Queue!" he thundered—the Arabic-speaking doctor speaking to Arabic-speakers in English, as if no Arabic word existed for the action.

    Al-Kandari took a pad of Post-it notes and a marker pen from his lab-coat pocket. "Numbers!" he said, still speaking English. "I will give you all numbers!" A couple of hundred shouldering, shoving Iraqi men and boys grabbed at the Post-it notes.

    The doctor gave up and opened the trailer doors. I climbed the ladder behind the truck cab to get a better view.

    Aid-seekers in England would queue automatically by needs, disabled war vets and nursing mothers first. Americans would bring lawn chairs and sleeping bags, camp out the night before, and sell their places to the highest bidders. Japanese would text-message one another, creating virtual formations, getting in line to get in line. Germans would await commands from a local official, such as the undersupervisor of the town clock. Even Italians know how to line up, albeit in an ebullient wedge. The happier parts of the world have capacities for self-organization so fundamental and obvious that they appear to be the pillars of civilization. But here—on the road to Ur, in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, where civilization has obtained for 5,000 years longer than it has, for example, at a Libertarian Party confab in Phoenix—nothing was supporting the roof.

    What I saw, however, wasn't anarchy... The Iraqis didn't try to climb into the tractor-trailer or break through its side doors. Red Crescent volunteers, coming and going from the back of the truck, were unmolested. Once an aid box was fully in an Iraqi's control and had been pulled free from the commotion, no one tried to take it. I saw four boxes being guarded by a young boy.

    I watched a confident gray-haired man push toward the trailer gate. He had wire-rimmed glasses on the end of his nose and a cigarette in the corner of his mouth. He dove for a box, his glasses flying, cigarette embers burning various gutras and dishdashahs. He disappeared for the better part of a minute. Then he came out on the other side of the throng, box under one arm and glasses somehow back on his face (but minus the cigarette). The gray-haired man looked around and delivered an open-handed whack to someone who, I guess, had indulged in a late hit.

    I stared at the rampage for an hour. Now and then I'd be noticed on the trailer roof. Whenever I caught someone's eye, I was greeted with a big, happy smile. The Iraqis were having fun."





    Now, this is not solely the fault of Islam. Non-Muslims in the Middle East are also quite brusque. For example, I used to work at a marketing research firm where the most brilliant executive was a Lebanese Christian immigrant, who was constantly upsetting lesser employees by pointing out their mistakes in no uncertain terms. I had to counsel employees that you had to grade Magid on the curve -- that I'd known a half dozen Lebanese (all of them Christians, I believe) and he was the most considerate one of the six, so by the standards of his Levantine upbringing, he was practically David Niven for grace and good manners. Similarly, Israeli Jews are remarkably in-your-face, so Islam isn't totally to blame for why Middle Easterners are the way they are. (It may play a role, though -- the Hindus of Bali are said to be a lot nicer on average than the Muslims in the rest of Indonesia.)

    In a culture like Iraq's where everyone is constantly asserting his and his family's rights at the top of his lungs, it's hard for anyone to have rights if anything is to get done. In a culture like England's where each individual is reticent about asserting his rights or the rights of his family or clan, it's much easier for everyone to have rights.

    You can see the problem that then develops when people from the in-your-face end of the gradient immigrate to the feel-your-pain countries. When immigrants bring their Middle Eastern hostility and assertiveness, the natives in the northwest are reluctant to vocally protest right back at them, because, well, it's just not done. They just give them That Look that causes their fellow Northwest Europeans to feel guilty that they've caused their neighbors discomfort. But it doesn't work on the Middle Easterners. They just see the failure of the natives to do anything substantial as proof of their bland white bread inferiority.

    But the truly catastrophic problem for the Northwesterners is that their empathy and politeness makes it very difficult for them to publicly discuss the problems that immigration of Middle Easterners causes for them. To say out loud, "Maybe we shouldn't let in more of these people," is seen as being rude toward the people we've already let in. The ones that are already there will get angry and cause a scene, which we just can't bear, so we'd better just not talk about immigration policy at all.

    Of course, that means the problem just keeps getting worse.

    Now, the Japanese get around this problem by not letting in immigrants at all, not even perfectly pleasant Filipinos. Instead, they build robots and program them to act like Japanese, which is a lot easier on the Japanese and their fragile emotions.

     

  193. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. And no offense is normally taken either.

  194. @Terrahawk
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    I have noticed that when the SJW's talk about anything old that is race related they act like Southern belles about to retire to their fainting couches.

    The whole reaction to things like this leave me with a troubled feeling. They show an utter lack of understanding of history, context, and critical thinking. Broad based thinking like that leads to very bad outcomes.

    Replies: @International Jew

    They show an utter lack of understanding of history, context, and critical thinking. Broad based thinking like that leads to very bad outcomes.

    Agreed. Wholesale destruction of old books is just over the horizon. It’ll happen as libraries pare back their non-digital “materials”.

  195. Did you see that College Humor bit about tipping?

  196. @ Steve Sailer,

    A friend of mine is a member at a private club and, as a guest, I once tried to leave a tip. I was quickly corrected and felt a bit embarrassed at being so uncouth. Then I remembered Ray Liotta doing the same thing in Goodfellas, and I recovered.

    I have read frequently of Phil Mickelson’s legendary tipping, in stark contrast to his main rival. I have also, inexplicably, heard people use Phil’s generosity as a sign of his phoniness.

    Lastly, Roy Williams, former WR for the Detroit Lions, was publicly exposed as a non-tipper. Apparently, he would regularly order pizza from the same place on certain nights and leave give no tip. He was a good enough sport to take the criticism, and volunteer to deliver pizzas for an evening to get an idea of how tedious it is.

  197. @Deduction
    @Twinkie

    I'm British and find tipping weird. Yes, I'll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here's an idea restaurant owners - tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge....or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    Replies: @disambiguated, @International Jew, @Matra, @dfordoom

    Next time you dine in America, try this: ask to see the owner after your meal and, hopefully in the presence of the waiter too, say, “This was an excellent meal and the service was splendid too. I’d like to suggest you reward this fine gentleman [head-nod towards the waiter] with 25% of my tab.”

    Should be interesting.

    You’re absolutely right that tipping is patronizing. And how ironic that the USA, with its globetrotting pretentions to equality and the casting off of class distinctions, should be the world capital of tipping.

    For the record, I do tip: because I don’t want to piss people off, and because as a conservative I value “settled expectations”. But it is a stupid institution: inefficient as an incentive system, rife with free-riding, arbitrary and, yes, patronizing. In its absence, no waiters will starve. Their wages will rise to a market-clearing level as they do in the other 99% of jobs, where no one gets tipped.

  198. @Lot
    My Midwestern German and Jewish family was strictly 15% rounded up to the nearest dollar, service good or bad, and I am the same. We also never order alcohol, except if the entire table wants a bottle of wine or sub $3 beers, never ask for extra anything, and never complain much less send food back. We'd be mortified to leave a penny less than 15%, and I am surprised to hear of upper class Midwesterners regularly going below 15%.

    I don't want every meal to end with me casting judgment on how people with tough jobs handled their work, thus the invariable 15+ formula. I include tax however, so 16.2% of the pre tax amount.

    The awkward exception is if I am brought something free on the house, in which case the tip goes up by half its estimated value. This happens enough to me that I have a rule for it. Leaving nothing extra is ungrateful, but paying for all of it would encourage random unwanted items.

    Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Lot (comment #172) says that 16.2% of the pre-tax amount is the same as 15% of the after-tax amount. So what is the tax rate? Calling t the tax per $1 of meal, we have .15(1+t)=.162(1), from which t = (.162/.15) – 1 = 1.08 – 1 = .08 = 8% tax rate on restaurant meals.

  199. @International Jew
    @JohnnyWalker123


    you know what group are most infamous for their aggressive and hostile behavior? Middle Easterners, especially Arabs.
     
    Antisemite. There, I said it.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    I actually wasn’t referring to Jews.

    Here’s a good post to read:

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/02/in-your-face-to-feel-your-pain.html

    [MORE]

    The In-Your-Face to Feel-Your-Pain Gradient — The Dane-Muslim cartoon controversy illuminates one of the less understood dynamics in the modern world, which I call the In-Your-Face to Feel-Your-Pain Gradient.

    All over the world, peoples differ in terms of how in-your-face they tend to be. The ultra-polite Japanese, for example, who might be the most sensitive people on earth to other people’s emotional discomfort, are deeply distressed by the kind of brusque assertiveness that’s common in South China. Thus the Japanese developed elaborate forms of business entertaining, while the South Chinese businessmen love to bargain aggressively when stone sober.

    But the particular gradient that’s most relevant to us is the one that runs between the Middle East and Northwestern Europe. Northwestern Europe and its overseas offshoots are probably second only to Japan as being Feel-Your-Pain cultures where people don’t like social friction and don’t like to see others upset. In contrast, the Middle East is perhaps the most in-your-face place on Earth. Here’s P.J. O’Rourke’s memorable description in The Atlantic of a Red Cross attempt at food distribution during the 2003 Iraq Attaq:

    “I was outside Safwan [in Iraq] on March 28, on the roof of a Kuwait Red Crescent tractor-trailer full of food donations. Below, a couple of hundred shoving, shouldering, kneeing, kicking Iraqi men and boys were grabbing at boxes of food.

    Red Crescent volunteers provided the boxes, gingerly, to the mob. Each white carton would be grasped by three or four or five belligerents and pulled in three or four or five directions—tug-of-Congolese-civil-war.

    Every person in the mob seemed to be arguing with every other person. Giving in to impulses to push themselves forward and push others away, shouting Iraqis were propelled in circles. A short, plump, bald man sank in the roil. A small boy, red-faced and crying, was crushed between two bellowing fat men. An old man was trampled trying to join the fray.

    The Iraqis were snatching the food as if they were starving, but they couldn’t have been starving or they wouldn’t have been able to snatch so well. Most looked fully fed. Some were too fit and active. Everyone behind the trailer was expending a lot of calories at noon on a 90° day.

    Looking out, I saw irrigated patches in the desert, at about the same density as the patches on the uniform of a mildly diligent Boy Scout. The tomatoes were ripe. Nannies, billies, and kids browsed between garden plots. Goat bolognese was on offer, at least for some locals.

    There was no reason for people to clobber one another. Even assuming that each man in the riot—and each boy—was the head of a family, and assuming the family was huge, there was enough food in the truck. Mohammed al-Kandari, a doctor from the Kuwait Red Crescent Society, had explained this to the Iraqis when the trailer arrived. Al-Kandari was a forceful explainer. He resembled a beneficent version of Bluto in the Popeye comics, or Bluto in Animal House.

    Al-Kandari had persuaded the Iraqis to form ranks. They looked patient and grateful, the way we privately imagine the recipients of food donations looking when we’re writing checks to charities. Then the trailer was opened, and everything went to hell.

    Al-Kandari marched through the donnybrook and slammed the trailer doors shut. He harangued the Iraqis. They lined up again. The trailer was opened, and everything went to hell.

    Al-Kandari waded in and closed the trailer doors again. He swung his large arms in parallel arcs at the Iraqis. “Line up!” he boomed; “Queue!” he thundered—the Arabic-speaking doctor speaking to Arabic-speakers in English, as if no Arabic word existed for the action.

    Al-Kandari took a pad of Post-it notes and a marker pen from his lab-coat pocket. “Numbers!” he said, still speaking English. “I will give you all numbers!” A couple of hundred shouldering, shoving Iraqi men and boys grabbed at the Post-it notes.

    The doctor gave up and opened the trailer doors. I climbed the ladder behind the truck cab to get a better view.

    Aid-seekers in England would queue automatically by needs, disabled war vets and nursing mothers first. Americans would bring lawn chairs and sleeping bags, camp out the night before, and sell their places to the highest bidders. Japanese would text-message one another, creating virtual formations, getting in line to get in line. Germans would await commands from a local official, such as the undersupervisor of the town clock. Even Italians know how to line up, albeit in an ebullient wedge. The happier parts of the world have capacities for self-organization so fundamental and obvious that they appear to be the pillars of civilization. But here—on the road to Ur, in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, where civilization has obtained for 5,000 years longer than it has, for example, at a Libertarian Party confab in Phoenix—nothing was supporting the roof.

    What I saw, however, wasn’t anarchy… The Iraqis didn’t try to climb into the tractor-trailer or break through its side doors. Red Crescent volunteers, coming and going from the back of the truck, were unmolested. Once an aid box was fully in an Iraqi’s control and had been pulled free from the commotion, no one tried to take it. I saw four boxes being guarded by a young boy.

    I watched a confident gray-haired man push toward the trailer gate. He had wire-rimmed glasses on the end of his nose and a cigarette in the corner of his mouth. He dove for a box, his glasses flying, cigarette embers burning various gutras and dishdashahs. He disappeared for the better part of a minute. Then he came out on the other side of the throng, box under one arm and glasses somehow back on his face (but minus the cigarette). The gray-haired man looked around and delivered an open-handed whack to someone who, I guess, had indulged in a late hit.

    I stared at the rampage for an hour. Now and then I’d be noticed on the trailer roof. Whenever I caught someone’s eye, I was greeted with a big, happy smile. The Iraqis were having fun.”

    Now, this is not solely the fault of Islam. Non-Muslims in the Middle East are also quite brusque. For example, I used to work at a marketing research firm where the most brilliant executive was a Lebanese Christian immigrant, who was constantly upsetting lesser employees by pointing out their mistakes in no uncertain terms. I had to counsel employees that you had to grade Magid on the curve — that I’d known a half dozen Lebanese (all of them Christians, I believe) and he was the most considerate one of the six, so by the standards of his Levantine upbringing, he was practically David Niven for grace and good manners. Similarly, Israeli Jews are remarkably in-your-face, so Islam isn’t totally to blame for why Middle Easterners are the way they are. (It may play a role, though — the Hindus of Bali are said to be a lot nicer on average than the Muslims in the rest of Indonesia.)

    In a culture like Iraq’s where everyone is constantly asserting his and his family’s rights at the top of his lungs, it’s hard for anyone to have rights if anything is to get done. In a culture like England’s where each individual is reticent about asserting his rights or the rights of his family or clan, it’s much easier for everyone to have rights.

    You can see the problem that then develops when people from the in-your-face end of the gradient immigrate to the feel-your-pain countries. When immigrants bring their Middle Eastern hostility and assertiveness, the natives in the northwest are reluctant to vocally protest right back at them, because, well, it’s just not done. They just give them That Look that causes their fellow Northwest Europeans to feel guilty that they’ve caused their neighbors discomfort. But it doesn’t work on the Middle Easterners. They just see the failure of the natives to do anything substantial as proof of their bland white bread inferiority.

    But the truly catastrophic problem for the Northwesterners is that their empathy and politeness makes it very difficult for them to publicly discuss the problems that immigration of Middle Easterners causes for them. To say out loud, “Maybe we shouldn’t let in more of these people,” is seen as being rude toward the people we’ve already let in. The ones that are already there will get angry and cause a scene, which we just can’t bear, so we’d better just not talk about immigration policy at all.

    Of course, that means the problem just keeps getting worse.

    Now, the Japanese get around this problem by not letting in immigrants at all, not even perfectly pleasant Filipinos. Instead, they build robots and program them to act like Japanese, which is a lot easier on the Japanese and their fragile emotions.

  200. The British imperial police eventually wiped them out in the 19th Century. There is a classic old police memoir of the anti-thugee campaign; I can’t remember the title.

    I guess I’m the designated Thuggee Movie Guy now: The Deceivers.

    Part of this may be explained by some blacks simply not knowing how tipping works or how much one is expected to tip.

    Maybe if whites stop tipping black servers, they’ll tell their families how it’s supposed to work.

  201. @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    The country club tipping thing is complicated:

    I remember causing a scandal at Olympia Fields when I was a guest there about 1991 by trying to give the guy who made my sandwich at the halfway house a one dollar tip. No tipping!

    But National Golf Links of America members tip their caddies so generously that Duke students fly in to the Hamptons for the weekend to loop.

    Complicatedness, I suppose, is kind of the point. It's a little bit like not clapping between movements of a Beethoven Symphony. That's baffling to newbies, so they start clapping and then get very self-conscious when only a few other evident newbies clap. And then they never come back to hear classical music.

    A lot of class barriers are these kind of semi-arbitrary rules that people from lower classes have a hard time figuring out. Probably a lot of nice church ladies who read Jet and Ebony were reassured to read that there's No Tipping at McDonalds.

    It's hard to remember how hard it was to look up stuff in the past. Nowadays most country clubs have a "Guest Info" page on their website that explains various rules, although I see that Olympia Fields (which will be hosting the U.S. Amateur later this year) doesn't mention tipping.

    Magazine ads in the past used to be very text-heavy with information because it information was in short supply. David Ogilvie the Scottish star of Madison Avenue copywriters used to make his typical ad a large picture and then below it about 300-400 words of text listing 8 or 10 bullet points of interesting information about the product.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux, @Jacobite, @NorthOfTheOneOhOne, @International Jew

    OK, I think I’ve figured it out. Private clubs ban tipping to avoid an “arms race” among the members.

    If you’re a regular at an ordinary restaurant, you can ensure superior service and seating by becoming known as a generous tipper. Your benefits result in marginally worse service and seating to the other diners, but if they’re not regulars they probably don’t notice and anyway the restauranteur feels little obligation to them.

    But at a club, everyone is a regular! If some members are treated better than others, this will become quickly apparent and lead to either (a) resentment or (b) ever-escalating competition on tipping (which eventually leads back to (a)). And if you’re the type that doesn’t care much about restaurant service, imagine learning that it takes tipping to get a good tee time.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @International Jew

    That's exactly right.

    , @Steve Sailer
    @International Jew

    Thanks. Makes sense.

    I guess caddies are in a different category because they serve only one or two at a time, for a long time, so it wouldn't be an arms race.

  202. @Brutusale
    @Tarrou

    I have friends in the industry, and the term "Canadians" applied to black customers is a common usage. In restaurants on the Gulf Coast of Florida, one of the first things waitstaff try to glean is whether or not you're a real, no-tip Canadian.

    My poor nephew learned his lesson pretty quickly. The summer between his high school graduation and college he was slinging lobsters at a place on the Maine coast and making some serious coin in tips. Then he took a job at an Outback just outside Boston to make a few bucks while attending college in the city. His second table was an 8-top of blacks, whereupon he proceeded to listen to complaints about the steaks and ran around providing a steady stream of sugar water refills, all for a tip of ZERO.

    He said he looked around the restaurant, saw its demographic split, then walked into the kitchen and tossed his apron to the manager on the way out the back door.

    Replies: @Ed

    Tipping is a reason restaurant insiders will give as to why sit down establishments are in short supply in black areas.

    They can’t keep quality wait staff. Either applicants won’t show up or do as your nephew quit after a short while.

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    @Ed

    And there is no possibility of just raising prices in that area? or would that be called racism.

    Replies: @Ed

  203. Agreed. Wholesale destruction of old books is just over the horizon.

    It’s amazing what you can get on Amazon for $.01 and $4 shipping. Anything un-PC excluded (try finding non-Marxist books about South Africa’s Bush War, for example. One book “sells” for $1k!).

  204. “Wow. Just. Wow.” The furor over these ads is just paternalistic whites feeling like they need to protect the helpless blacks against any perceived racism. They all into protectin the people from the man, if the people want it or not! Makes them look better? All the better!

  205. @OsRazor
    Tipping requires empathy. Every study out there says blacks have low levels of empathy. Spending on yourself like a drunk sailor on shore leave, on the other hand, reeks of lack of impulse control. Blacks have low impulse control, drunk or otherwise.

    Probably most revealing was a segment in the British car show "Top Gear" where the host reviewed a Cadillac Escalade, pretty much concluded it was crap (in every meaningful way in terms of engineering, performance, quality compared to European SUVs), and then went out on a ride in the Escalade with a British black celebrity, hoping the black celebrity could clue him in on why the Escalade was so popular among blacks. The black celebrity was confused. Why wouldn't one want the Escalade? It was big and ostentatious--no other black who saw you in it could not but be impressed. Most revealing, the black celebrity said that a black guy wouldn't hesitate to purchase the Escalade even though he still lived with his mother, could only afford to fill it with gasoline more or less one gallon at a time, etc. None of that mattered. What mattered was that the black guy had the Escalade and every one he knew knew it.

    Replies: @keypusher, @Lot, @SEATAF

    To what studies do you refer, pray?

  206. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Auntie Analogue
    Is it possible that country clubs simply include a 15% gratuity on their members dining bills?

    Replies: @Muse, @Anon

    I belong to a club that has a no tipping policy, and they automatically add 15% to the bill. Same thing with the guys who clean your clubs after a round of golf. Makes it simple for you and equitable for the employees. Nothing wrong with giving an extra tip if someone has done something exceptionable, but it is not required. Why don’t more restaurants do this?

  207. @Clifford Brown
    @Dave Pinsen

    Yoni Appelbaum, who wrote the magnum opus in The Atlantic on the racialized history of American community pools, is Ta-Nehisi Coates' protege. Allegedly, Coates pulled "Cynic" Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates' articles. Not sure I believe the story completely in light of how much TNC seems to limit open debate on his articles.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/07/152205683/from-commenter-to-columnist-the-atlantics-cynic

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @PB and J, @International Jew

    Allegedly, Coates pulled “Cynic” Appelbaum out of obscurity due to the lively and engaging comments he made to Ta-Nehisi Coates’ articles.

    Wow, that’s some meteoric ascent — procrastinating grad student to MSM journalist.

    Steve, maybe you should nominate someone. Svigor would be a good fit for Ron.

  208. Floyd Money Mayweather spent over $25 thousand dollars at an upscale restaurant in Las Vegas and left no tip at all.

    Black people hate tipping as much as they hate White people and the police.

  209. @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    OK, I think I've figured it out. Private clubs ban tipping to avoid an "arms race" among the members.

    If you're a regular at an ordinary restaurant, you can ensure superior service and seating by becoming known as a generous tipper. Your benefits result in marginally worse service and seating to the other diners, but if they're not regulars they probably don't notice and anyway the restauranteur feels little obligation to them.

    But at a club, everyone is a regular! If some members are treated better than others, this will become quickly apparent and lead to either (a) resentment or (b) ever-escalating competition on tipping (which eventually leads back to (a)). And if you're the type that doesn't care much about restaurant service, imagine learning that it takes tipping to get a good tee time.

    Replies: @Lot, @Steve Sailer

    That’s exactly right.

  210. @Deduction
    @Twinkie

    I'm British and find tipping weird. Yes, I'll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here's an idea restaurant owners - tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge....or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    Replies: @disambiguated, @International Jew, @Matra, @dfordoom

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere

    Then there’s the tax (or taxes) being added on top of the listed price. Two extra charges on top the listed price feels like false advertising to foreigners.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Matra


    Then there’s the tax (or taxes) being added on top of the listed price
     
    I was told it's actually illegal in Indiana to hide the sales tax that way. Hey, it keeps the rates down! VAT is usually double or more US sales tax.
  211. @David
    @Simon in London

    Drinking with coworkers in London helped me see the good in tipping. Leaving a few bucks on the bar with every round beats rows of happy hour patrons standing meekly at a bar, holding out lengthwise-folded bank notes, silently requesting service from indifferent timeservers.

    Replies: @Deduction

    That’s a zero sum game you’re playing. Like all forms of bribery.

  212. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @whorefinder
    I'm weirded out by the "blacks don't tip" stereotype (which, as someone whose never been a server/waiter, I've never experienced).

    It weirds me out because of the other black stereotypes of (1) blacks willing to pay what ever extra fees and add-ons that sellers throw onto merchandise, and never negotiate for a lower price (Malcolm Gladwell, please tells us why this is precisely why sellers shouldn't take advantage of this tendency) ; and (2) blacks actually proud/bragging of paying full-price for couture /high-end clothes---one episode of a black-female reality show I saw years ago actually had two ghetto-mommas screaming over whose wardrobe was more expensive.

    It would seem the stereotype for blacks is to be bizarrely proud of paying high prices because it displays that the price isn't really that high to them, and thus that they are rich. The Big Man syndrome. Like Donald Trump outfitting his lobbies in gold and bragging about how few people could afford to live at his apartments---the exclusivity/high prices are actually a feature, not a bug.

    So when I hear someone telling a war story about being a waiter and not getting a dime from blacks on tips, it doesn't jive (heh) with what I would expect. I would expect, based on other stereotypes, that blacks would try to outdo each other dropping the biggest tip and bragging how it didn't matter to them. Heck, the Pacman Jones-strip club incident (Google it) occurred because Pacman (an NFL star) and some NBA stars got into a fight about who could throw the most tips around a strip club.

    Anyone with an idea of if these stereotypes can be reconciled/made copacetic (heh again), love to hear it. Maybe one's just plain wrong, and the lefties can have one small notch in their belt.

    As a side note, since ads in the past weren't cramped from observing racial reality, Steve is right to compare this to titiliation. It's like in Circle of Friends where the kids get all excited about learning about the sexual habits of primitive people---because those people aren't restricted by the Catholic mores of Ireland, but it's school/anthpological, it's ok to watch what they've secretly wondered about.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sam Haysom, @Twinkie, @Jefferson, @midtown, @Buffalo Joe, @Auntie Analogue, @anonymous

    In poorer cultures it is status seeking to be seen to spend alot of money. That is why poor people like clothes with huge labels, flashy cars, flashy jewelry, etc. Since tipping is not public except at gentleman’s clubs, you would expect people from poorer cultures not to tip as well.

  213. Will a black guy tip more if in the presence of white company or taking out a white girl on a date?

  214. @Mike
    @International Jew

    Having two kids that work at a country club, I can tell you the no tipping rule is due, mainly, to compensation law. My kids work at an hourly scale slightly above minimum wage. Your typical tipped position, such as a waiter, is only paid $2.13 per hour.

    Also, in the case of this country club, and others I'm pretty sure, there is no cash used on the premises. This helps keeps non-members away. You pay for everything on your account and settle up at the end of the month.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Jacobite, @Forbes

    The clubs I’m familiar with, the only cash paid–including tip–is to caddies, otherwise no cash is observed. Menus contain no prices, and all charges go on the monthly statement, i.e. guests are guests, and they don’t pay.

  215. @keypusher
    @OsRazor

    During the school year you see a lot of Escalades at dropoff at Upper East Side private schools. I don't see black students getting out of them.

    Replies: @J, @Forbes

    Absolutely car service–driven by the owner.

  216. @Deduction
    @disambiguated

    I criticised an aspect of American culture. One that I abide by to be respectful, but still an American takes the criticism personally rather than engaging with the reasoning.

    No wonder all this PC nonsense is rooted in your country....

    'If you dont accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally, don't visit'...what a joke...

    Replies: @keypusher, @Ichneumon

    I am genuinely sorry. Most Americans are not like that.

  217. @J
    @keypusher

    Could be a car service instead of family owned vehicle.

    Replies: @keypusher

    They’re not, though. Car services in New York mostly use Town Cars (and, increasingly, Toyota sedans) and Highlanders. The Highlander is a lot cheaper than the Escalade.

  218. @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer

    OK, I think I've figured it out. Private clubs ban tipping to avoid an "arms race" among the members.

    If you're a regular at an ordinary restaurant, you can ensure superior service and seating by becoming known as a generous tipper. Your benefits result in marginally worse service and seating to the other diners, but if they're not regulars they probably don't notice and anyway the restauranteur feels little obligation to them.

    But at a club, everyone is a regular! If some members are treated better than others, this will become quickly apparent and lead to either (a) resentment or (b) ever-escalating competition on tipping (which eventually leads back to (a)). And if you're the type that doesn't care much about restaurant service, imagine learning that it takes tipping to get a good tee time.

    Replies: @Lot, @Steve Sailer

    Thanks. Makes sense.

    I guess caddies are in a different category because they serve only one or two at a time, for a long time, so it wouldn’t be an arms race.

  219. @Ben H
    @Steve Sailer

    A person I know worked in a relatively upscale nightclub that certainly wasn't black but did have plenty of upscale black customers. For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule. I've seen black guys pay for drinks with $100 bill and not even tip a buck.

    Replies: @Justpassingby

    For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule.

    Their only experience in life is welfare or an NBA salary. They may think everyone is either on the first or getting the second.

    • Replies: @Ben H
    @Justpassingby

    Actually the blacks on the team at the time were relatively middle class, for NBA guys. They were pretty normal, not flashy guys with mouths full of gold teeth, at least not the guys who came to that club. They were the kind of NBA guys who were happy to play in the Midwest, not in Miami or LA. Anyway my point was not that the NBA guys were bad tippers specifically, it was that the nightclub was the kind of more expensive place where blacks who had money were welcome to come, and in general, beyond a reasonable doubt, were bad tippers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  220. @P
    @The most deplorable one

    Nah, immigrants from Africa are highly selected. The average IQ of black African immigrants to America may be 100 or more. I'd expect some regression to the mean in the second generation though.

    Replies: @Truth

    I have never heard of any IQ test for Africans wanting to immigrate to the US. If you have a link as such, please share.

  221. @Anonymous
    @Truth

    Face palm....

    You realize that having some sort of diploma, is likely a prerequisite to even getting into the US right?

    Keep em coming 'Truth'....always entertaining!

    Replies: @Truth

    You realize that having some sort of diploma, is likely a prerequisite to even getting into the US right?

    YOU REALIZE that having some sort of diploma is LIKELY a prerequisite…

    I’m taking it you learned your research skills at the University of of Zambia as well?

  222. I recall reading in a NYT profile of Limbaugh how the reporter and Limbaugh went to some South Florida steakhouse where Limbaugh was a regular. The staff treated them like royalty. Then the reporter got the check because he was expensing it, for the story, etc. Limbaugh put up a fight but the reporter insisted on paying. The staff was crestfallen because, as the reporter later learned, Limbaugh routinely tipped $5,000 on a $500 check.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @manton

    Jerry Seinfeld is allegedly a generous tipper, although not in Rush's league.

    Philosophically I'm in line with Mr. Pink's views on tipping, but in practice I'm a lot like Twinkie.

  223. @Ashkenazi1687
    I don't know anything about black tips in restaurants, but I was a cab driver in New York City (mostly in Manhattan) in the early 1970s, and blacks tipped much better than other people. For several months I kept a written record of every tip I received by race and by percent of the fare. Blacks tipped about 50% (really). The average was about 20%. East Asians were the worst tippers.

    I think blacks did it because most cab drivers refused to pick up blacks, so when somebody did pick them up, they were grateful and wanted to encourage the driver. Most of these black riders were people in their 30s or older going home from work late at night.

    The day I started work, an older black driver in the garage, a man in his 60s, told me, "Don't pick up black people. It's dangerous. Even if they look all right, they are probably going home to a black neighborhood and you don't want to be there." I'm white, he was black. I picked up blacks, he didn't.

    Replies: @ricpic, @Anonymous

    Well, that’s very noble of you, that you picked up blacks contrary to the black driver’s advice. Noble and lucky, I might add. You didn’t get mugged by your black customers, that’s the lucky part. Plain dumb luck. You engaged in high risk behavior, didn’t listen to the wise advice of a black driver who almost certainly had been mugged and robbed by blacks, and you got away with it. And you can barely keep from congratulating yourself on your noble attitude toward blacks. What a TOTAL FOOL.

  224. @Twinkie
    @Ivy

    I hope that story was not literal.

    Replies: @Ivy

    Sadly, yes. Things got a lot better later on.

  225. @Justpassingby
    @Ben H


    For example players from the local NBA team would drink there on occasion. And the answer is no they do not tip at all, with individual exceptions proving the rule.
     
    Their only experience in life is welfare or an NBA salary. They may think everyone is either on the first or getting the second.

    Replies: @Ben H

    Actually the blacks on the team at the time were relatively middle class, for NBA guys. They were pretty normal, not flashy guys with mouths full of gold teeth, at least not the guys who came to that club. They were the kind of NBA guys who were happy to play in the Midwest, not in Miami or LA. Anyway my point was not that the NBA guys were bad tippers specifically, it was that the nightclub was the kind of more expensive place where blacks who had money were welcome to come, and in general, beyond a reasonable doubt, were bad tippers.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Ben H

    Has anybody done a study of the class background of black NBA players and football players? I'm wondering whether they now skew more toward Jordan-like stable backgrounds?

    Replies: @Ezra

  226. @Ed
    @Brutusale

    Tipping is a reason restaurant insiders will give as to why sit down establishments are in short supply in black areas.

    They can't keep quality wait staff. Either applicants won't show up or do as your nephew quit after a short while.

    Replies: @AnAnon

    And there is no possibility of just raising prices in that area? or would that be called racism.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @AnAnon

    Yes. A few months ago a hotel in the Charlotte area got in trouble for adding "service fees" during the weekend of a HBCU sporting tourney.

  227. @Ben H
    @Justpassingby

    Actually the blacks on the team at the time were relatively middle class, for NBA guys. They were pretty normal, not flashy guys with mouths full of gold teeth, at least not the guys who came to that club. They were the kind of NBA guys who were happy to play in the Midwest, not in Miami or LA. Anyway my point was not that the NBA guys were bad tippers specifically, it was that the nightclub was the kind of more expensive place where blacks who had money were welcome to come, and in general, beyond a reasonable doubt, were bad tippers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Has anybody done a study of the class background of black NBA players and football players? I’m wondering whether they now skew more toward Jordan-like stable backgrounds?

    • Replies: @Ezra
    @Steve Sailer

    I had a theory that the preponderance of players on the Dream team of working class (MJ, Magic, Robinson,Ewing) and country (Barkley, Malone, Pippen, Bird) backgrounds showed how bad things had gotten in the inner city in the 1980's. Mullin was the most ghetto of the bunch. It seems these days though, that NBA talent spotting has gotten so intense that the system pretty much brings talented players along whatever their family background.

  228. @AnonAnon
    I thought it was well known that midwesterners are cheap. My parents live in an Arizona retirement community that gets a lot of midwestern snowbirds. I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals. This is a community full of retired civil servants, too, so they have very nice pensions.

    Replies: @Gallo-Roman, @Anonymous

    Most of these people probably grew up during the Depression and/or were raised with Depression era values that eschewed waste.

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    @Anonymous


    I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals
     
    Lots of people order water because they're watching their waistlines and don't want empty calories. Others, sadly, can't drink alcohol anymore or are teetotalers. The other problem is that many restaurants can't be trusted to give you a good drink unless you order something they can't screw up or unless you are willing to settle for some mediocre house wine/beer.
  229. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Muse
    How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors. Tipwell and you believe your status obliges you to serve society as part and parcel of your social position. It is required service for the cultured well-to-do to spend some time giving away money on the local charity circuit and appearing in the society glossy mags each year.

    Cultures that believe their inferiors exist purely to benefit them do not tip well. Let his be lesson on who you decide to work and vote for.

    Replies: @Greg Pandatshang, @Anonymous

    “How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors.”

    This notion that wait staff are our “social inferiors” is very strange to me.

    Many waiters and waitresses are very popular people with lots of friends. They often have very good personalities and are quite attractive. Many will grow up to be quite affluent eventually and it’s not unusual for them to be from relatively well-off families.

    • Replies: @Grumpy
    @Anonymous

    It has never crossed my mind that servers were my "social inferiors," which I suppose is why tipping does not seem in the least bit patronizing to me. (I can think of plenty of other reasons to criticize the practice.) In fact, I'm a bit disturbed to see this attitude expressed here.

    , @Ed
    @Anonymous

    Yes but that's generally a thing among the American oriented elite. A wealthy Indian kid isn't going to spend summers waiting tables serving the great unwashed. It's considered unseemly in their culture. Most of the wealthy in the world are very contemptuous of others they deem as inferiors.

    Philanthropy among the elite is almost exclusively a Western European behavior. Bill Gates found this out during his giving pledge drive where he asks billionaires to pledge half their fortunes to philanthropy when they die. The Chinese billionaires thought he was crazy.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  230. @Deduction
    @Twinkie

    I'm British and find tipping weird. Yes, I'll do it, especially in the US, because it is the culture but if you get a service (waited food, in this instance) you should only pay once for it.

    Tipping is one step up from giving to a busker on the street. It is patronising, when institutionalised, to those who receive it.

    Here's an idea restaurant owners - tell your customers not to tip, factor in service to the bill and pay your staff the service charge....or even better, factor the service into the cost of the food and pay your staff more.

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere.

    It genuinely puts me off going.

    Replies: @disambiguated, @International Jew, @Matra, @dfordoom

    “I’m British and find tipping weird.”

    I’m Australian and it strikes me the same way. It’s kind of demeaning.

  231. @Anonymous
    @Muse

    "How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors."

    This notion that wait staff are our "social inferiors" is very strange to me.

    Many waiters and waitresses are very popular people with lots of friends. They often have very good personalities and are quite attractive. Many will grow up to be quite affluent eventually and it's not unusual for them to be from relatively well-off families.

    Replies: @Grumpy, @Ed

    It has never crossed my mind that servers were my “social inferiors,” which I suppose is why tipping does not seem in the least bit patronizing to me. (I can think of plenty of other reasons to criticize the practice.) In fact, I’m a bit disturbed to see this attitude expressed here.

  232. @Matra
    @Deduction

    American holidays are like dudget airlines. You are expected to pay (an unknowable amount) for every random interaction you have with an employee anywhere

    Then there's the tax (or taxes) being added on top of the listed price. Two extra charges on top the listed price feels like false advertising to foreigners.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Then there’s the tax (or taxes) being added on top of the listed price

    I was told it’s actually illegal in Indiana to hide the sales tax that way. Hey, it keeps the rates down! VAT is usually double or more US sales tax.

  233. @AnAnon
    @Ed

    And there is no possibility of just raising prices in that area? or would that be called racism.

    Replies: @Ed

    Yes. A few months ago a hotel in the Charlotte area got in trouble for adding “service fees” during the weekend of a HBCU sporting tourney.

  234. @Dave Pinsen
    Re tipping and race: I started driving for Uber on the side recently, and >90% of the time no one tips, as one of the features of the service is that it's cashless. But two black women did tip me recently: a businesses executive type with a British accent, who I gave a ride to Newark airport from the city of Newark (about a 15 minute ride, though I helped her with her bags). She gave me 3 singles on a ~$15 fare, and mentioned something about not having more change.

    The other one is a chambermaid at a local hotel. I've given her (5 minute) rides to work twice, and each time she's tipped me a single on a fare that was $7 with the 1.5x "surge" pricing. Nice lady. She said some recent Bangladeshi guests were very messy.

    I was surprised that folks like her use Uber, but she's not a one-off: I've given people rides to their jobs at Home Depot and Staples, where the cost of their commute probably eats up an hour or two of their salaries.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway – Arunaa dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a “just the facts” approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who’s dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying “International Marketing” at the local college – there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave – but she was actually pretty friendly.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911


    there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave –
     
    Hell if there's no doubt than why doesn't every black person do it. %100 chance of success is pretty good odds!

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

  235. @Dave Pinsen
    Re tipping and race: I started driving for Uber on the side recently, and >90% of the time no one tips, as one of the features of the service is that it's cashless. But two black women did tip me recently: a businesses executive type with a British accent, who I gave a ride to Newark airport from the city of Newark (about a 15 minute ride, though I helped her with her bags). She gave me 3 singles on a ~$15 fare, and mentioned something about not having more change.

    The other one is a chambermaid at a local hotel. I've given her (5 minute) rides to work twice, and each time she's tipped me a single on a fare that was $7 with the 1.5x "surge" pricing. Nice lady. She said some recent Bangladeshi guests were very messy.

    I was surprised that folks like her use Uber, but she's not a one-off: I've given people rides to their jobs at Home Depot and Staples, where the cost of their commute probably eats up an hour or two of their salaries.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway – Aruna’ s dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a “just the facts” approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who’s dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying “International Marketing” at the local college – there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave – but she was actually pretty friendly.

  236. @Dave Pinsen
    Re tipping and race: I started driving for Uber on the side recently, and >90% of the time no one tips, as one of the features of the service is that it's cashless. But two black women did tip me recently: a businesses executive type with a British accent, who I gave a ride to Newark airport from the city of Newark (about a 15 minute ride, though I helped her with her bags). She gave me 3 singles on a ~$15 fare, and mentioned something about not having more change.

    The other one is a chambermaid at a local hotel. I've given her (5 minute) rides to work twice, and each time she's tipped me a single on a fare that was $7 with the 1.5x "surge" pricing. Nice lady. She said some recent Bangladeshi guests were very messy.

    I was surprised that folks like her use Uber, but she's not a one-off: I've given people rides to their jobs at Home Depot and Staples, where the cost of their commute probably eats up an hour or two of their salaries.

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway – Arunas dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a “just the facts” approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who’s dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying “International Marketing” at the local college – there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave – but she was actually pretty friendly.

  237. @Anonymous
    @AnonAnon

    Most of these people probably grew up during the Depression and/or were raised with Depression era values that eschewed waste.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

    I never saw so many neatly (not expensively but neatly put together) dressed white people order water with their meals

    Lots of people order water because they’re watching their waistlines and don’t want empty calories. Others, sadly, can’t drink alcohol anymore or are teetotalers. The other problem is that many restaurants can’t be trusted to give you a good drink unless you order something they can’t screw up or unless you are willing to settle for some mediocre house wine/beer.

  238. RE: Let us now praise German tippers

    Normally, Germans just leave the the change. That being said, servers are actually compensated for their labor. Conversely, it is not cheap to eat out in Germany.

    True story – at my wife’s Oma’s 80th birthday, we were at a restaurant. There were 20 of us in the party and and 4 or 5 servers. I am sure the bill came to around 400 DM. Anyway, Oma, got bless her, was living with her heart in the 1940’s still. She tipped 5 DM – no really. No one found out until later when my sweigemutter inquired. They were taken aback.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Excuse me, for curiosity's sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven't been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn't sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  239. Ed says:
    @Anonymous
    @Muse

    "How you tip indicates your view your relationship with your social inferiors."

    This notion that wait staff are our "social inferiors" is very strange to me.

    Many waiters and waitresses are very popular people with lots of friends. They often have very good personalities and are quite attractive. Many will grow up to be quite affluent eventually and it's not unusual for them to be from relatively well-off families.

    Replies: @Grumpy, @Ed

    Yes but that’s generally a thing among the American oriented elite. A wealthy Indian kid isn’t going to spend summers waiting tables serving the great unwashed. It’s considered unseemly in their culture. Most of the wealthy in the world are very contemptuous of others they deem as inferiors.

    Philanthropy among the elite is almost exclusively a Western European behavior. Bill Gates found this out during his giving pledge drive where he asks billionaires to pledge half their fortunes to philanthropy when they die. The Chinese billionaires thought he was crazy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ed

    "Yes but that’s generally a thing among the American oriented elite. A wealthy Indian kid isn’t going to spend summers waiting tables serving the great unwashed. It’s considered unseemly in their culture. Most of the wealthy in the world are very contemptuous of others they deem as inferiors."

    This is interesting. I wouldn't think we'd want the elite of these non-Western countries coming to our country and taking our good job and becoming our new elite. It doesn't seem like it makes our country better, and instead would seem to only increase our growing inequality problem - not just in actual wealth, but also in attitude.

  240. @manton
    I recall reading in a NYT profile of Limbaugh how the reporter and Limbaugh went to some South Florida steakhouse where Limbaugh was a regular. The staff treated them like royalty. Then the reporter got the check because he was expensing it, for the story, etc. Limbaugh put up a fight but the reporter insisted on paying. The staff was crestfallen because, as the reporter later learned, Limbaugh routinely tipped $5,000 on a $500 check.

    Replies: @EriK

    Jerry Seinfeld is allegedly a generous tipper, although not in Rush’s league.

    Philosophically I’m in line with Mr. Pink’s views on tipping, but in practice I’m a lot like Twinkie.

  241. @Steve Sailer
    @Ben H

    Has anybody done a study of the class background of black NBA players and football players? I'm wondering whether they now skew more toward Jordan-like stable backgrounds?

    Replies: @Ezra

    I had a theory that the preponderance of players on the Dream team of working class (MJ, Magic, Robinson,Ewing) and country (Barkley, Malone, Pippen, Bird) backgrounds showed how bad things had gotten in the inner city in the 1980’s. Mullin was the most ghetto of the bunch. It seems these days though, that NBA talent spotting has gotten so intense that the system pretty much brings talented players along whatever their family background.

  242. @Tarrou
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Yeah, things haven't changed. My SO tends bar in a black-majority town, and the tales are depressingly common. The slang is a bit funny too, the servers refer to blacks as "Canadians", another group known for not tipping. As in "Good luck, you just got sat a six-top of Canadians!". According to the staff there, blacks also send their food back to the kitchen at a rate at least five or ten times that of whites. FWIW, the second worst group is middle-aged white women in groups.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Brutusale, @Moderate Mom

    Your SO must tend bar in Memphis, because the stories of black customers is legend here. Every server and bartender in town cheered when the COGIC convention departed for St. Louis. They hated having to serve tables knowing that there would be no tip and that they would constantly bitch that the food wasn’t prepared correctly and then expect their meal to be comped. After they had devoured 90% of the food on the plate.

  243. @International Jew

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.
     
    Sure does. I'd like to comment on the intersection of this piece, and a seemingly unrelated iSteve preoccupation, country clubs. My observation is that country clubs and other private clubs have a no-tipping policy. Why is that?

    Heck, I'll come out with it: the private clubs I'm familiar with have been mostly Jewish (um, about 3 of 4). So there you have it, the intersection of *three*, count 'em, iSteve preoccupations!

    Or is it that members give the staff big once-yearly bonuses, in lieu of tip? (I wouldn't know; I've been to those clubs as a guest, never as a member.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Matra, @Mike, @Steve Sailer, @Deckin, @Moderate Mom

    Our family belongs to a country club and eat there often. A 20% service charge (tip) is added to any food or bar tab automatically.

  244. @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    You’re obviously a wonderful human being. :)
     
    Thanks, but that remains to be seen. I expect a rather harsh judgment from the Old Mighty for my arrogance, violence, and excessive bloodthirstiness.

    But I have tried my best to be honorable, loyal, and fair to my fellow citizens (including, yes, people who serve me food and maids who clean my hotel rooms). I am very tribal in nature, and America is my tribe. To those outside my tribe, I apply what Thomas Friedman called "Hama rules." That's not very Christian of me, but nobody's perfect.

    Replies: @Moderate Mom

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn’t leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn’t know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Moderate Mom

    How much do you tip the housekeeping staff? 15% of a daily room rate would be difficult for many travelers to handle.

    Replies: @Beach, @Dave Pinsen, @Moderate Mom

    , @Andrew Jackson
    @Moderate Mom

    I don't understand tipping housekeeping. (A) If you don't tip each day, you will still have plenty of shampoo, soap, and clean towels and (B) it's menial work paid a menial wage by their employer. Would you tip your own house cleaner on top of what you agreed to pay her? That is nuts. That said I won't pretend that I've never heard of it being done, but it's generally not done as near as I can tell.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Moderate Mom

    If you stay at a hotel that requires valet parking, do you have to tip the valet every time he brings you your car? I am confused as to who expects a tip and who dies not when traveling. I'd rather not waste money when I'm not expected to. I'm not Rush Limbaugh, giving everyone $100 bills (so he says).

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/06/02/i_feel_your_pain_les_moonves

    Replies: @Moderate Mom

    , @Twinkie
    @Moderate Mom


    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn’t leave daily tips for housekeeping staff.
     
    Oh, my goodness. This was a source of so many arguments that I had with my wife.

    I always leave at least $5 each morning for the maid. My wife would absolutely refuse to do so ("It's her JOB!"). After I convinced her otherwise, she'd insist we do only $1 or $2. She eventually gave in, but took YEARS of arguments. I think what finally won her over was when, at one hotel, the maid left a note of thanks as well as lots of extra towels and bottled water (so we did not have to call for them). I told her, "SEE! Not only is it the right thing to do, but it also pays. Okay? From now on, we are going to tip the way my parents do."

    Once it became a habit, she stopped making a fuss about it. Now I only rarely point out to my wife, "Did you see that smile on the maid's face when she said hello? Now, aren't you glad we were nice and tipped her well?"

    Replies: @Brutusale

  245. @disambiguated
    @Deduction

    By all means, please stay home, or go elsewhere.

    Replies: @Deduction, @Beach

    No, he has a point. My sister (we’re Americans) has complained about the requirement of tipping wait staff for years. Her attitude is: Isn’t it enough that I’m paying $50 for a dinner, the ingredients of which probably cost a fraction of that – must I pay your employees, as well? She tips anyway, but it’s always seemed something of a con to her that American restaurants are allowed to get away with employee “pay” of a couple of bucks an hour.

    I always tip 20%; the service would have to be abysmal for me to tip less. I’m not sure the European suggestion of simply adding the gratuity to the bill is right, either. I’ve been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants, because they’re getting paid, whether they get around to you, or not. I remember an especially egregious Bahama experience of no less that four waitresses standing around polishing silverware, very slowly, while multiple tables were clearly waiting to have their orders taken.

    I don’t look down on anyone I tip, nor do I consider tipping ostentatious. Americans are underpaid, starting with the minimum wage, which keeps everyone’s pay above it lower than it should be, in a knock on effect. American service industries are quite happy to let customers pay their employees, so they don’t have to. Until that changes, you’re not scoring any culture points or showing service people any respect by not tipping.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Beach


    I’ve been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants
     
    The best service I ever had at restaurants and hotels were in Singapore and Tokyo (and by "the best," I do not mean "servile" - I mean courteous and *efficient*; the most servile were probably Dubai and India). Although the site/building is not physically attractive, the Ritz-Carlton in Singapore has the best staff I encountered anywhere in the globe. A close second would the staff at Park Hyatt in Shinjuku, Tokyo.

    The worst service? Well, I could name a lot, but I'll pick one that had the worst service-to-price ratio. Anguilla. I paid a decent four figure sum in dollars per night and received 1/2* (that's half a star) service. Slow. Impolite. Inefficient. Padded bills as an added insult. I loathe the Caribbean. Even St. Barts, a "white island," has its own inefficiency, snobbery, and celebrity problems (at least Anguilla is quiet).
    , @Ichneumon
    @Beach

    I hope your wife realizes that she's not paying $50 to the restaurant for the *ingredients*. You can buy those at the grocery store, but a bag of raw food isn't nearly as nice as what all you get in the restaurant experience (which includes expert preparation, ambiance, convenience, being always there for you when you suddenly decide to eat, etc.)

    As for the tipping system being a con, you'd pay for it one way or another -- if tipping didn't happen the meal prices would of course have to be inflated accordingly.

    The token amount the restaurant pays the servers is basically paying them to show up. You're paying them personally for the time and effort they expend serving you personally. So for the duration of your meal, essentially they're *your* employee.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  246. @Moderate Mom
    @Twinkie

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn't leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn't know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Andrew Jackson, @Harry Baldwin, @Twinkie

    How much do you tip the housekeeping staff? 15% of a daily room rate would be difficult for many travelers to handle.

    • Replies: @Beach
    @Anonymous

    I don't tip hotel housekeepers anything like 15% of the daily room rate. I put $5 on the dresser with "Maids - Thank You" on the note pad, every day that I stay in the hotel. It's a small token, but it makes a big difference to them, and I never have to ask for extra towels or anything - they leave double the usual amount.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Anonymous

    $1 per guest per night.

    , @Moderate Mom
    @Anonymous

    $5 every day, including the day I check out.

  247. @Moderate Mom
    @Twinkie

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn't leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn't know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Andrew Jackson, @Harry Baldwin, @Twinkie

    I don’t understand tipping housekeeping. (A) If you don’t tip each day, you will still have plenty of shampoo, soap, and clean towels and (B) it’s menial work paid a menial wage by their employer. Would you tip your own house cleaner on top of what you agreed to pay her? That is nuts. That said I won’t pretend that I’ve never heard of it being done, but it’s generally not done as near as I can tell.

  248. @Twinkie
    @whorefinder

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/whats-behind-racial-differences-in-restaurant-tipping/


    However, studies have consistently observed a reliable black-white tipping difference even after controlling for consumers’ socioeconomic status, including income and education, and after controlling for perceptions of service quality. This race difference in tipping is also observed regardless of whether the server is white or black.
     
    I was born in a non-tipping (East Asian) culture. The first time I sat at a restaurant in the U.S., my father made a point of explaining the whole tipping thing in the U.S. and then impressed upon me that I should be a good tipper ("Don't be that cheap customer"). Since then I have tipped very well, especially after I figured out the economics of wait staff compensation. And I also speak respectfully to the wait staff - they are my equals in rights and dignity as fellow human beings and American citizens; their lower income/status doesn't make them lesser beings. This is something I also stressed with my children. Because they have grown up affluently, I wanted to make sure that prosperity did not go to their heads.

    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example). It took me years to re-educate my wife to my way of tipping, which she thought, for a long time, quite extravagant.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Curle, @Simon in London, @Deduction, @ben tillman

    Oddly, though, my wife’s rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example).

    That makes them good tippers since that’s the proper way to tip.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @ben tillman


    That makes them good tippers since that’s the proper way to tip.
     
    There is what is (technically) right. And then there is what is good. The two are not always the same. I opt for good over right. In principle, it makes sense to base the tip on the pre-tax total. But in reality, that's nickel-and-diming the low wage people who do a difficult and unappreciated job. As I wrote before, the difference between a 15% tip and a 25% tip doesn't mean as much to me. It means a lot more to the wait staff who live on that tip.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  249. @Anonymous
    @Moderate Mom

    How much do you tip the housekeeping staff? 15% of a daily room rate would be difficult for many travelers to handle.

    Replies: @Beach, @Dave Pinsen, @Moderate Mom

    I don’t tip hotel housekeepers anything like 15% of the daily room rate. I put $5 on the dresser with “Maids – Thank You” on the note pad, every day that I stay in the hotel. It’s a small token, but it makes a big difference to them, and I never have to ask for extra towels or anything – they leave double the usual amount.

  250. Now I am curious if Blacks put more or less money in the poor box/church donations than other races. Especially considering the white flight from religion. Any data on that?

  251. @ben tillman
    @Twinkie


    Oddly, though, my wife's rich and prominent Midwestern family is made up of rather poor tippers (they take pains to calculate tips off the pre-tax total, for example).
     
    That makes them good tippers since that's the proper way to tip.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    That makes them good tippers since that’s the proper way to tip.

    There is what is (technically) right. And then there is what is good. The two are not always the same. I opt for good over right. In principle, it makes sense to base the tip on the pre-tax total. But in reality, that’s nickel-and-diming the low wage people who do a difficult and unappreciated job. As I wrote before, the difference between a 15% tip and a 25% tip doesn’t mean as much to me. It means a lot more to the wait staff who live on that tip.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie,

    Many lower wage employees are nickeled and dimed, so to speak. Many secretaries don't make a lot of money. Does anyone tip them during the day for the work they do? If a maid makes beds up in 30 rooms a day- is that possible? - and gets minimum wage plus $5 per room, that's over $200 a day, or about $50,000 a year. Is that what a maid should be paid, especially considering that so many higher skilled people are making considerably less?

    Also, you're apparently loaded (i.e., you can afford multiple 6-figure carso) so in your case the difference between a 15 and 20% tip or tipping someone $5 a day in a hotel, or whatever, certainly is negligible. However, as a general rule for everyone I don't think it makes a lot of sense.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  252. @Moderate Mom
    @Twinkie

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn't leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn't know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Andrew Jackson, @Harry Baldwin, @Twinkie

    If you stay at a hotel that requires valet parking, do you have to tip the valet every time he brings you your car? I am confused as to who expects a tip and who dies not when traveling. I’d rather not waste money when I’m not expected to. I’m not Rush Limbaugh, giving everyone $100 bills (so he says).

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/06/02/i_feel_your_pain_les_moonves

    • Replies: @Moderate Mom
    @Harry Baldwin

    I don't tip the valet when they park the car, but I do tip when they bring it back. Usually $3.

    The only time I get a little resentful on tipping is at high end hotels, where one person takes your bags out of the car and takes them to the lobby and then a different guy takes the bags from the lobby to the room. I tip both, but I'm not happy that I'm having to tip two different people to get my suitcase from Point A to Point B.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  253. @Buffalo Joe
    @Tarrou

    I live across the river from Canada. There is a running conversation on talk radio about how poorly Canadians tip, ten percent seems to be the upper limit of their tips. I knew a gay construction worker who was the live in boyfriend of a surgeon. The doctor gave him a Cadillac Seville, then the top of the line Caddy, for his birthday. My wife and I refer to gays as Sevilles.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    I live across the river from Canada. There is a running conversation on talk radio about how poorly Canadians tip, ten percent seems to be the upper limit of their tips.

    And I’ve heard that in some places waiters call Blacks “Canadians” as a little inside joke that keeps the PC police away.

  254. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    I was in a D'Angelo's the other day. It is located on a well traveled road in a commercial area, albeit in close proximity to an area where people like to keep it real. However, I was going to see "Tomorrow Land" at a nearby ghettotron that let's you put your own buttery like ambrosia on yer popcorn! And for that my friends, I'd walk through the gates of hell. The woman working the register was a standard issue abuela.

    Anyway, channeling my inner Mainer I ordered a lobster roll. Sure, not Red's Eats, but the only game in town. She joked that I was rewarding myself. I opined somewhat pithily that, alas, there is no is rewarded in this life. She had a pretty good rejoinder that escapes me now. Anyway, I went to sit down and wait for my brown bag of buttery goodness.

    Next, this black woman walks in to the joint like she's got the deed to it. She was donned in the dull, pastel blue, shapeless raiment of a home health care worker. Now, this woman who has climbed to the highest heights of the bed pan emptying profession procedes to interrogate the server in a condescending tone, infused with simmering aggression, and speaking in, of course, her subterranean ghetto dialect, over whether or not D'Angelo' s was actually serving real lobster. Assured that it was, she then decided to mull her options for several minutes. In the interim, my industrious border hopping server finished preparing my lobster roll. Then, I did something I never do:

    I thanked her in Spanish.

    When I got the car I noted that I received about double the normal helping!

    Then, I headed to the ghettotron, stole a parking space, and got my popcorn.

    Quick movie review: "Tomorrow Land" starts out great and, frankly, Clooney was compelling and likable; however, it devolves into advocating a poorly fit and cobbled together A Small World multiracial fetishism and valuable life lessons about the value of positive thinking. It is schizophrenic in the it pines for the future of Hugo Gernsback and Ace Double science fiction novels, but promulgating a way forward that is untenable.

    I got to experience the small world utopia first hand at the ghettotron with this hispanic lady and her 4 kids chattering away behind me. In full disclosure, they were speaking English, so I guess there's that a least. Also, I dumped a half pint of Majorska Blue into my extra large Diet Coke, so the world was Ok, if just for a little while.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Dude – I salute you! You do know how to go to the movies.

  255. @Beach
    @disambiguated

    No, he has a point. My sister (we're Americans) has complained about the requirement of tipping wait staff for years. Her attitude is: Isn't it enough that I'm paying $50 for a dinner, the ingredients of which probably cost a fraction of that - must I pay your employees, as well? She tips anyway, but it's always seemed something of a con to her that American restaurants are allowed to get away with employee "pay" of a couple of bucks an hour.

    I always tip 20%; the service would have to be abysmal for me to tip less. I'm not sure the European suggestion of simply adding the gratuity to the bill is right, either. I've been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants, because they're getting paid, whether they get around to you, or not. I remember an especially egregious Bahama experience of no less that four waitresses standing around polishing silverware, very slowly, while multiple tables were clearly waiting to have their orders taken.

    I don't look down on anyone I tip, nor do I consider tipping ostentatious. Americans are underpaid, starting with the minimum wage, which keeps everyone's pay above it lower than it should be, in a knock on effect. American service industries are quite happy to let customers pay their employees, so they don't have to. Until that changes, you're not scoring any culture points or showing service people any respect by not tipping.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Ichneumon

    I’ve been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants

    The best service I ever had at restaurants and hotels were in Singapore and Tokyo (and by “the best,” I do not mean “servile” – I mean courteous and *efficient*; the most servile were probably Dubai and India). Although the site/building is not physically attractive, the Ritz-Carlton in Singapore has the best staff I encountered anywhere in the globe. A close second would the staff at Park Hyatt in Shinjuku, Tokyo.

    The worst service? Well, I could name a lot, but I’ll pick one that had the worst service-to-price ratio. Anguilla. I paid a decent four figure sum in dollars per night and received 1/2* (that’s half a star) service. Slow. Impolite. Inefficient. Padded bills as an added insult. I loathe the Caribbean. Even St. Barts, a “white island,” has its own inefficiency, snobbery, and celebrity problems (at least Anguilla is quiet).

  256. @Moderate Mom
    @Twinkie

    My mother traveled on business frequently while I was growing up. One thing she taught me is that you always tip the housekeeping staff at hotels and do it every day. You leave a tip your first day as a thank you for the room being clean when you checked in and to ensure good service the coming day as well. Do that each day and you will always have plenty of shampoo, soap and clean towels.

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn't leave daily tips for housekeeping staff. When asked why I did it, I told them what my mother told me. They didn't know that they should, but it made sense to them and now all of them tip the housekeeping staff at hotels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Andrew Jackson, @Harry Baldwin, @Twinkie

    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn’t leave daily tips for housekeeping staff.

    Oh, my goodness. This was a source of so many arguments that I had with my wife.

    I always leave at least $5 each morning for the maid. My wife would absolutely refuse to do so (“It’s her JOB!”). After I convinced her otherwise, she’d insist we do only $1 or $2. She eventually gave in, but took YEARS of arguments. I think what finally won her over was when, at one hotel, the maid left a note of thanks as well as lots of extra towels and bottled water (so we did not have to call for them). I told her, “SEE! Not only is it the right thing to do, but it also pays. Okay? From now on, we are going to tip the way my parents do.”

    Once it became a habit, she stopped making a fuss about it. Now I only rarely point out to my wife, “Did you see that smile on the maid’s face when she said hello? Now, aren’t you glad we were nice and tipped her well?”

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Twinkie

    If you're tipping for comps and not for altruistic reasons, that tip money is better spent at the front desk. Read "Heads in Beds" by Jacob Tomsky.

  257. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ed
    @Anonymous

    Yes but that's generally a thing among the American oriented elite. A wealthy Indian kid isn't going to spend summers waiting tables serving the great unwashed. It's considered unseemly in their culture. Most of the wealthy in the world are very contemptuous of others they deem as inferiors.

    Philanthropy among the elite is almost exclusively a Western European behavior. Bill Gates found this out during his giving pledge drive where he asks billionaires to pledge half their fortunes to philanthropy when they die. The Chinese billionaires thought he was crazy.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “Yes but that’s generally a thing among the American oriented elite. A wealthy Indian kid isn’t going to spend summers waiting tables serving the great unwashed. It’s considered unseemly in their culture. Most of the wealthy in the world are very contemptuous of others they deem as inferiors.”

    This is interesting. I wouldn’t think we’d want the elite of these non-Western countries coming to our country and taking our good job and becoming our new elite. It doesn’t seem like it makes our country better, and instead would seem to only increase our growing inequality problem – not just in actual wealth, but also in attitude.

  258. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    And I refuse to let homosexuals hijack this or any other term
     
    The gay slang "twink" is short for "twinkle toes", and has no connection to Hostess's famed guilty pleasure-- despite whatever "creamy filling" may suggest.

    Twinkies are renowned as much for their softness as for their color scheme. In Calvin and Hobbes, the bully Moe regularly called Calvin "Twinkie".

    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is "banana". But you won't avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?


    I still use “gay” in its proper sense – being frivolously cheerful
     
    Frivolous! Thus, "gay" for homo is at least half-right.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is “banana”. But you won’t avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?

    True enough. I abhor this ridiculous sexualization (and in particular, homosexualization) of everything in today’s mass culture. It’s coarse and undignified. Some friendly rough banter is fine (and even cohesion-building) in locker rooms and barracks, but it’s just everywhere now, even in mixed company.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Twinkie

    "Twinkie says:

    @Reg Cæsar

    True enough. I abhor this ridiculous sexualization (and in particular, homosexualization) of everything in today’s mass culture. It’s coarse and undignified. Some friendly rough banter is fine (and even cohesion-building) in locker rooms and barracks, but it’s just everywhere now, even in mixed company."

    Quite true. Everything seems to be sexed-up now - even drive-time radio-ads. It's tawdry and repellent.

  259. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Dave Pinsen

    I did the UBER thing for a time, alas not much in the way of tips. UBER discourages it. However, fares, regardless of race/class, always seemed happy to get me as their driver, except Indians, dot, not feather, for some reason gave me crappy ratings; they come from a caste based system and it became clear to me that I was not obsequious enough.

    Anyway - Arunaa dissatisfaction with my demeanor aside, I adopted a "just the facts" approach which net me a 4.6 average. The best conversation I ever had was with a white sales guy from North Carolina who's dad was a truck driver. He was working for a tech recruiting firm with a churn rate worse than Enterprise.

    My first rider was a talented tenth type black chick studying "International Marketing" at the local college - there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave - but she was actually pretty friendly.

    Replies: @Truth

    there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave –

    Hell if there’s no doubt than why doesn’t every black person do it. %100 chance of success is pretty good odds!

    • Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Truth

    Because the man is keeping them down, obviously. Seriously, you are the worst troll ever.

    Replies: @Truth

  260. @JSM
    @Twinkie

    "They can be very stingy (as I mentioned in another thread, when my wife was growing up, they gave her no money – she had to work several jobs and pay for everything except for the “room and board” from her parents, so to speak)."

    Ok, this is weird. You frequently remind us all how great you are, including what an excellent parent you are, as evidenced by how, you assure us, kind, hardworking, unselfish, unspoiled and talented your children are.

    But, since kids only get to be kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled when they have to*earn* their treats (i.e., the stuff not room and board) including working several jobs if that's what it takes, thereby coming to an understanding and respect of other people's hard work because they've done it themselves- and your German in-laws know this, which is why they were careful to be "stingy"- the fact that you criticise them for their good parenting wisdom makes me wonder just how great you and your kids really are.

    Something keeps making the old "protesteth too much" adage keep echoing in my head.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Ok, this is weird. You frequently remind us all how great you are, including what an excellent parent you are, as evidenced by how, you assure us, kind, hardworking, unselfish, unspoiled and talented your children are.

    That’s right, everything I touch turns awesome due to my sheer awesomeness. Now BOW BEFORE ME!

    Okay, now that we have that understanding…

    But, since kids only get to be kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled when they have to*earn* their treats

    Since I subscribe to Aristotelian ethics, I tend to think that one can take something good to an excessive extent and thereby worsen it. You don’t have to make your kids buy their own clothes with their work money to teach them to be “kind and hardworking and unselfish and unspoiled.” There is a good zone of balance between depriving your children and indulging them. And although I have emphasized hard work to my children, what I have emphasized even more to them is *service* to something greater than themselves – God, country, and their fellow citizens, especially those who are worse off.

    the fact that you criticise them for their good parenting wisdom makes me wonder just how great you and your kids really are.

    Oh, is that “the fact”? I don’t think you “wonder” here. I think you got me pegged as one of those eeeevil Asian immigrants ever since I declined to take my American (and -born) wife and children “back” to Asia per your asinine suggestion. Be honest. It doesn’t matter what I say or do. You have your opinion and you aren’t going to change it.

  261. @disambiguated
    @Twinkie

    And now you know why they have $80,000.00+ cars and you don't.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    And now you know why they have $80,000.00+ cars and you don’t.

    I don’t have $80,000+ cars because I don’t want one. I can afford multiple six-figure cars if I wanted to do so. I just don’t see the point. I don’t resent or envy those who have them either (I have acquaintances who have cars that cost $250K-$500K). I am not that into cars – they are just tools to me. I just want something 1) reliable, 2) nondescript (doesn’t attract attention), and 3) has a good balance of acceleration, handling, and power (for possible evasive maneuvers, load-bearing, etc.).

  262. @Anonymous
    @Moderate Mom

    How much do you tip the housekeeping staff? 15% of a daily room rate would be difficult for many travelers to handle.

    Replies: @Beach, @Dave Pinsen, @Moderate Mom

    $1 per guest per night.

  263. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    RE: Let us now praise German tippers

    Normally, Germans just leave the the change. That being said, servers are actually compensated for their labor. Conversely, it is not cheap to eat out in Germany.

    True story - at my wife's Oma's 80th birthday, we were at a restaurant. There were 20 of us in the party and and 4 or 5 servers. I am sure the bill came to around 400 DM. Anyway, Oma, got bless her, was living with her heart in the 1940's still. She tipped 5 DM - no really. No one found out until later when my sweigemutter inquired. They were taken aback.

    Replies: @Romanian

    Excuse me, for curiosity’s sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven’t been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn’t sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Romanian

    "Romanian says:

    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Excuse me, for curiosity’s sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven’t been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn’t sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something."

    If your definition of "pretty old" is "someone who bought a beer 15 years ago", then you're going to be pretty depressed when you turn 40.

    Replies: @Romanian

  264. Hey maybe those commercials you guys hate are just showing white people and black people as they really are because they don’t want to embarrass white people…

  265. @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    A more common synonym for the ethnic use of Twinkie is “banana”. But you won’t avoid homoerotic allusions with that one, either, will you?
     
    True enough. I abhor this ridiculous sexualization (and in particular, homosexualization) of everything in today's mass culture. It's coarse and undignified. Some friendly rough banter is fine (and even cohesion-building) in locker rooms and barracks, but it's just everywhere now, even in mixed company.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Twinkie says:

    True enough. I abhor this ridiculous sexualization (and in particular, homosexualization) of everything in today’s mass culture. It’s coarse and undignified. Some friendly rough banter is fine (and even cohesion-building) in locker rooms and barracks, but it’s just everywhere now, even in mixed company.”

    Quite true. Everything seems to be sexed-up now – even drive-time radio-ads. It’s tawdry and repellent.

  266. @Romanian
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Excuse me, for curiosity's sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven't been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn't sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Romanian says:

    Excuse me, for curiosity’s sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven’t been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn’t sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something.”

    If your definition of “pretty old” is “someone who bought a beer 15 years ago”, then you’re going to be pretty depressed when you turn 40.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    @Mr. Anon

    That wasn't the point. The commenter also added


    True story – at my wife’s Oma’s 80th birthday
     
    So it stands to reason that his wife was 80 years old 15 years ago.

    God forbid, I don't want anyone to think I'm being ageist. Mr. Sailer himself is no spring chicken, as can be deduced from his anecdotes.

    Replies: @Matra, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

  267. @Anonymous
    @Moderate Mom

    How much do you tip the housekeeping staff? 15% of a daily room rate would be difficult for many travelers to handle.

    Replies: @Beach, @Dave Pinsen, @Moderate Mom

    $5 every day, including the day I check out.

  268. @Harry Baldwin
    @Moderate Mom

    If you stay at a hotel that requires valet parking, do you have to tip the valet every time he brings you your car? I am confused as to who expects a tip and who dies not when traveling. I'd rather not waste money when I'm not expected to. I'm not Rush Limbaugh, giving everyone $100 bills (so he says).

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/06/02/i_feel_your_pain_les_moonves

    Replies: @Moderate Mom

    I don’t tip the valet when they park the car, but I do tip when they bring it back. Usually $3.

    The only time I get a little resentful on tipping is at high end hotels, where one person takes your bags out of the car and takes them to the lobby and then a different guy takes the bags from the lobby to the room. I tip both, but I’m not happy that I’m having to tip two different people to get my suitcase from Point A to Point B.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Moderate Mom


    I don’t tip the valet when they park the car, but I do tip when they bring it back. Usually $3.
     
    I tip the valet both ways. Again, my wife thought this extravagant, but she certainly doesn't complain about how speedily our car materializes.
  269. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @ben tillman


    That makes them good tippers since that’s the proper way to tip.
     
    There is what is (technically) right. And then there is what is good. The two are not always the same. I opt for good over right. In principle, it makes sense to base the tip on the pre-tax total. But in reality, that's nickel-and-diming the low wage people who do a difficult and unappreciated job. As I wrote before, the difference between a 15% tip and a 25% tip doesn't mean as much to me. It means a lot more to the wait staff who live on that tip.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Twinkie,

    Many lower wage employees are nickeled and dimed, so to speak. Many secretaries don’t make a lot of money. Does anyone tip them during the day for the work they do? If a maid makes beds up in 30 rooms a day- is that possible? – and gets minimum wage plus $5 per room, that’s over $200 a day, or about $50,000 a year. Is that what a maid should be paid, especially considering that so many higher skilled people are making considerably less?

    Also, you’re apparently loaded (i.e., you can afford multiple 6-figure carso) so in your case the difference between a 15 and 20% tip or tipping someone $5 a day in a hotel, or whatever, certainly is negligible. However, as a general rule for everyone I don’t think it makes a lot of sense.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Many secretaries don’t make a lot of money. Does anyone tip them during the day for the work they do?
     
    Secretaries don't live on tips, maids do.

    Also, you’re apparently loaded (i.e., you can afford multiple 6-figure carso) so in your case the difference between a 15 and 20% tip or tipping someone $5 a day in a hotel, or whatever, certainly is negligible. However, as a general rule for everyone I don’t think it makes a lot of sense.
     
    I tipped that way before I became affluent - even when I was subsisting on ramen noodles as a Ph.D. student (I very rarely ate out back then or traveled). My father's line was, "If you can't afford to tip well, you can't afford eat where tips are expected."
  270. @Mr. Anon
    @Romanian

    "Romanian says:

    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Excuse me, for curiosity’s sake, when did this happen? Because DM haven’t been used in like 15 years. I hope it doesn’t sound impolite, but you must be pretty old. I can barely get my dad to google something."

    If your definition of "pretty old" is "someone who bought a beer 15 years ago", then you're going to be pretty depressed when you turn 40.

    Replies: @Romanian

    That wasn’t the point. The commenter also added

    True story – at my wife’s Oma’s 80th birthday

    So it stands to reason that his wife was 80 years old 15 years ago.

    God forbid, I don’t want anyone to think I’m being ageist. Mr. Sailer himself is no spring chicken, as can be deduced from his anecdotes.

    • Replies: @Matra
    @Romanian

    No, his "wife's Oma" (grandmother) was 80.

    , @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Romanian

    As noted by Matra - she wast mein frau's Oma, nicht mein. It was sometimes in the 90's. If you read any of my intermittent posts or google my handle (don't, really, find something more interesting to do) you'll find that I'm just another garden variety Gen-X'r. Kurt Cobain forever!!! Kidding.

    I think ye were thrown off by "her heart was living in the 40's still." It is a line I stole from the Saw Doctors and using it to intimate that how the Weltanshauung that many of us carry in our hearts (not heads) is merely a Polaroid picture of when we were young and we assume that the world is the same, when it is not. Hence, her tipping.

    Anyway, Oma was a great lady with a real big heart. Took, this Ami into her life without a question. She lived through what we would call hell, but, for her, well, Oma she walked through the rain and never got wet. Also, always had a big old Deutsche sized bier waiting for me.

    RIP.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  271. @Romanian
    @Mr. Anon

    That wasn't the point. The commenter also added


    True story – at my wife’s Oma’s 80th birthday
     
    So it stands to reason that his wife was 80 years old 15 years ago.

    God forbid, I don't want anyone to think I'm being ageist. Mr. Sailer himself is no spring chicken, as can be deduced from his anecdotes.

    Replies: @Matra, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    No, his “wife’s Oma” (grandmother) was 80.

  272. @Truth
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911


    there is no doubt her path with be cleared and prosperous from cradle to grave –
     
    Hell if there's no doubt than why doesn't every black person do it. %100 chance of success is pretty good odds!

    Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Because the man is keeping them down, obviously. Seriously, you are the worst troll ever.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    No, Duh Mann (not "the man") Is keepin' (strategic "g" drop there) y'all down.

    Duh man won't let a honkee do NUFFIN' nowadays.

    Duh man do be givin' duh Knee-grows all kinda shit doe, cuz he luv dem so much.

  273. @Romanian
    @Mr. Anon

    That wasn't the point. The commenter also added


    True story – at my wife’s Oma’s 80th birthday
     
    So it stands to reason that his wife was 80 years old 15 years ago.

    God forbid, I don't want anyone to think I'm being ageist. Mr. Sailer himself is no spring chicken, as can be deduced from his anecdotes.

    Replies: @Matra, @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    As noted by Matra – she wast mein frau’s Oma, nicht mein. It was sometimes in the 90’s. If you read any of my intermittent posts or google my handle (don’t, really, find something more interesting to do) you’ll find that I’m just another garden variety Gen-X’r. Kurt Cobain forever!!! Kidding.

    I think ye were thrown off by “her heart was living in the 40’s still.” It is a line I stole from the Saw Doctors and using it to intimate that how the Weltanshauung that many of us carry in our hearts (not heads) is merely a Polaroid picture of when we were young and we assume that the world is the same, when it is not. Hence, her tipping.

    Anyway, Oma was a great lady with a real big heart. Took, this Ami into her life without a question. She lived through what we would call hell, but, for her, well, Oma she walked through the rain and never got wet. Also, always had a big old Deutsche sized bier waiting for me.

    RIP.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    I miss the Deutsche Mark. That was real money, backed by a real government.

    Down with the Euro.

  274. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Truth

    Because the man is keeping them down, obviously. Seriously, you are the worst troll ever.

    Replies: @Truth

    No, Duh Mann (not “the man”) Is keepin’ (strategic “g” drop there) y’all down.

    Duh man won’t let a honkee do NUFFIN’ nowadays.

    Duh man do be givin’ duh Knee-grows all kinda shit doe, cuz he luv dem so much.

  275. @Moderate Mom
    @Harry Baldwin

    I don't tip the valet when they park the car, but I do tip when they bring it back. Usually $3.

    The only time I get a little resentful on tipping is at high end hotels, where one person takes your bags out of the car and takes them to the lobby and then a different guy takes the bags from the lobby to the room. I tip both, but I'm not happy that I'm having to tip two different people to get my suitcase from Point A to Point B.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I don’t tip the valet when they park the car, but I do tip when they bring it back. Usually $3.

    I tip the valet both ways. Again, my wife thought this extravagant, but she certainly doesn’t complain about how speedily our car materializes.

  276. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie,

    Many lower wage employees are nickeled and dimed, so to speak. Many secretaries don't make a lot of money. Does anyone tip them during the day for the work they do? If a maid makes beds up in 30 rooms a day- is that possible? - and gets minimum wage plus $5 per room, that's over $200 a day, or about $50,000 a year. Is that what a maid should be paid, especially considering that so many higher skilled people are making considerably less?

    Also, you're apparently loaded (i.e., you can afford multiple 6-figure carso) so in your case the difference between a 15 and 20% tip or tipping someone $5 a day in a hotel, or whatever, certainly is negligible. However, as a general rule for everyone I don't think it makes a lot of sense.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Many secretaries don’t make a lot of money. Does anyone tip them during the day for the work they do?

    Secretaries don’t live on tips, maids do.

    Also, you’re apparently loaded (i.e., you can afford multiple 6-figure carso) so in your case the difference between a 15 and 20% tip or tipping someone $5 a day in a hotel, or whatever, certainly is negligible. However, as a general rule for everyone I don’t think it makes a lot of sense.

    I tipped that way before I became affluent – even when I was subsisting on ramen noodles as a Ph.D. student (I very rarely ate out back then or traveled). My father’s line was, “If you can’t afford to tip well, you can’t afford eat where tips are expected.”

  277. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    @Romanian

    As noted by Matra - she wast mein frau's Oma, nicht mein. It was sometimes in the 90's. If you read any of my intermittent posts or google my handle (don't, really, find something more interesting to do) you'll find that I'm just another garden variety Gen-X'r. Kurt Cobain forever!!! Kidding.

    I think ye were thrown off by "her heart was living in the 40's still." It is a line I stole from the Saw Doctors and using it to intimate that how the Weltanshauung that many of us carry in our hearts (not heads) is merely a Polaroid picture of when we were young and we assume that the world is the same, when it is not. Hence, her tipping.

    Anyway, Oma was a great lady with a real big heart. Took, this Ami into her life without a question. She lived through what we would call hell, but, for her, well, Oma she walked through the rain and never got wet. Also, always had a big old Deutsche sized bier waiting for me.

    RIP.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I miss the Deutsche Mark. That was real money, backed by a real government.

    Down with the Euro.

  278. Slightly O/T but still in the vein of the general discussion:

    “While we’re on restaurants, I like French waiters and waitresses. The French, like most Europeans, recognise being a waiter as a proper job which commands respect. This is why you get older waiters who know their stuff, rather than our endless stream of often clueless 22-year-old Australians and Latvians who do it for a year or two. It’s also why the waiter-customer relationship is so different. French staff know the customer isn’t always right and I rather I enjoy their snootiness. The thing is, companies are always banging on authenticity and I’m pretty sure that the disdain my French waiter has for me is authentic. By contrast, the plastic, Americanised bonhomie of their British counterparts almost certainly isn’t. It also makes me a little nostalgic: not so very long ago we too had snooty waiting staff. Now, we have a second-rate imitation of American service.”

    Bien Sur!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11655310/France-is-better-than-Britain-but-were-scared-to-admit-it.html

  279. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ashkenazi1687
    I don't know anything about black tips in restaurants, but I was a cab driver in New York City (mostly in Manhattan) in the early 1970s, and blacks tipped much better than other people. For several months I kept a written record of every tip I received by race and by percent of the fare. Blacks tipped about 50% (really). The average was about 20%. East Asians were the worst tippers.

    I think blacks did it because most cab drivers refused to pick up blacks, so when somebody did pick them up, they were grateful and wanted to encourage the driver. Most of these black riders were people in their 30s or older going home from work late at night.

    The day I started work, an older black driver in the garage, a man in his 60s, told me, "Don't pick up black people. It's dangerous. Even if they look all right, they are probably going home to a black neighborhood and you don't want to be there." I'm white, he was black. I picked up blacks, he didn't.

    Replies: @ricpic, @Anonymous

    25 years taxi experience will testify in re black taxi tipping…they do not tip well…if one is extremely personable and makes several showy gestures of benevolence, one can sometimes extract an okay tip BUT YEAH YOU REALLY GOT TO PRANCE…I am extremely personable, my other friends who were drivers reported far less success

  280. @Twinkie
    @Moderate Mom


    Traveling with friends, I have been surprised how many didn’t leave daily tips for housekeeping staff.
     
    Oh, my goodness. This was a source of so many arguments that I had with my wife.

    I always leave at least $5 each morning for the maid. My wife would absolutely refuse to do so ("It's her JOB!"). After I convinced her otherwise, she'd insist we do only $1 or $2. She eventually gave in, but took YEARS of arguments. I think what finally won her over was when, at one hotel, the maid left a note of thanks as well as lots of extra towels and bottled water (so we did not have to call for them). I told her, "SEE! Not only is it the right thing to do, but it also pays. Okay? From now on, we are going to tip the way my parents do."

    Once it became a habit, she stopped making a fuss about it. Now I only rarely point out to my wife, "Did you see that smile on the maid's face when she said hello? Now, aren't you glad we were nice and tipped her well?"

    Replies: @Brutusale

    If you’re tipping for comps and not for altruistic reasons, that tip money is better spent at the front desk. Read “Heads in Beds” by Jacob Tomsky.

  281. @Andrew Jackson
    @sb


    Non Americans are always amazed as to why tipping is so accepted and so ubiquitous in the US .
    Well those of us from other English speaking countries anyway .
    It seems a poor substitute for paying proper wages and encourages anti egalitarianism and a rigid class basis for different occupations -you tip the barber but not the dentist right ?
     
    As an American waiter, I agree that tipping isn't necessarily the best system. Most Americans haven't even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don't really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is "bad") don't really understand that what's giving them "good" service isn't the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it's the fear of management, just like everywhere else.

    Also consider the fact that the tipping system creates the incentive for a server to work more tables than he can honestly handle. You'd rather get 15% on selling $1500 than 20% on selling $1000.

    Americans tend to be crude people who want crude service from someone who pretends to be their overly enthusiastic friend. Asians are the complete opposite, and if they know how to tip, are pretty much the ideal customers. Europeans are somewhere in between. That said, in the last couple years, Euros and Asians have gotten a lot better at tipping. I almost prefer to "roll the dice" and wait on them these days. Arabs are the worst. They tip like American ghetto blacks, but more consistently so. Jews run the gamut. I definitely don't mind when AIPAC is in town as long as you don't get too many of those reedy high-pitched neurotic sounding jews who tend to have a lot of special needs.

    Replies: @Ichneumon

    Most Americans haven’t even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don’t really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is “bad”) don’t really understand that what’s giving them “good” service isn’t the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it’s the fear of management, just like everywhere else.

    Here’s one of the several things you’re missing: Management deals with obvious incompetence or personality issues, sure, but seldom has the time to watch the servers as if issuing report cards (and often the way that management would like servers to perform isn’t what customers actually want/appreciate).

    Tipping is a much more direct and meaningful feedback regarding customer satisfaction with the service, and although you’re correct that the individual $8/$10 from a given “couple of yokels” (charming) isn’t itself a huge incentive to bust your hump (or not), in aggregate a server’s tips give him/her direct information about what makes for the most satisfied customers (e.g. “I tried refilling drinks more often and I’m taking home more tips now” or “Cindy keeps making more tips than I do, I’m going to ask her for pointers.”).

    And the biggest upside for customers in a tip-for-service environment is that people who happen to not be cut out to be good servers get discouraged by poor tip take-homes and tend to drop out of the restaurant biz to go do something else, while outstanding servers make good money and stay on the job. It’s a strong and automatic filter for competence, and while in theory management is able to do that as well, in practice a lot of places are reluctant to let anyone go as long as they show up on time and just don’t commit egregious blunders (never mind that they’re sub-mediocre at the job).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Ichneumon

    Thanks.

    This shows the advantage of having a huge number of comments. I'm 56 years old and now, on the 286th comment, I finally understand the point of tipping.

  282. @Ichneumon
    @Andrew Jackson


    Most Americans haven’t even really thought through the marginal incentives the tipping system creates. They may understand that you get what you pay for yet they don’t really understand the implications involved. A couple of yokels spending $50 on a meal at Applebees dangling a $10 tip (or maybe $8 if they think the service is “bad”) don’t really understand that what’s giving them “good” service isn’t the fear of losing $2 or even $10, it’s the fear of management, just like everywhere else.
     
    Here's one of the several things you're missing: Management deals with obvious incompetence or personality issues, sure, but seldom has the time to watch the servers as if issuing report cards (and often the way that management would like servers to perform isn't what customers actually want/appreciate).

    Tipping is a much more direct and meaningful feedback regarding customer satisfaction with the service, and although you're correct that the individual $8/$10 from a given "couple of yokels" (charming) isn't itself a huge incentive to bust your hump (or not), in aggregate a server's tips give him/her direct information about what makes for the most satisfied customers (e.g. "I tried refilling drinks more often and I'm taking home more tips now" or "Cindy keeps making more tips than I do, I'm going to ask her for pointers.").

    And the biggest upside for customers in a tip-for-service environment is that people who happen to not be cut out to be good servers get discouraged by poor tip take-homes and tend to drop out of the restaurant biz to go do something else, while outstanding servers make good money and stay on the job. It's a strong and automatic filter for competence, and while in theory management is able to do that as well, in practice a lot of places are reluctant to let anyone go as long as they show up on time and just don't commit egregious blunders (never mind that they're sub-mediocre at the job).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

    This shows the advantage of having a huge number of comments. I’m 56 years old and now, on the 286th comment, I finally understand the point of tipping.

  283. @Deduction
    @disambiguated

    I criticised an aspect of American culture. One that I abide by to be respectful, but still an American takes the criticism personally rather than engaging with the reasoning.

    No wonder all this PC nonsense is rooted in your country....

    'If you dont accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally, don't visit'...what a joke...

    Replies: @keypusher, @Ichneumon

    I had a similar reaction to your post as did “disambiguated”, and while I can’t speak for him, I can explain why I was tempted to make a similar retort.

    It wasn’t because you “criticised an aspect of American culture”. It wasn’t because I “took the criticism personally”. It wasn’t because I expect anyone to “accept every aspect of my country as perfect unconditionally” (charming hyperbolic straw man you’ve got there…)

    It was because you came across as more than a bit of a condescending wanker, informing us benighted rubes of simple indisputable facts we had somehow failed to grasp until you came along to educate us (telling us how services “should” be paid, how tipping “is” akin to paying a busker, “is” patronizing, etc.), and implying that we’re all too dim to have ever considered the possibility of an obvious alternative (“here’s an idea restaurant owners…”).

    And no, that’s not taking anything personally, that’s just being appalled at your apparent effrontery, and at the irony of you dismissing tipping as “patronizing” (no more so than getting paid by anyone for anything) in a post that itself seems drippingly patronizing.

    Still, I (and perhaps “disambiguated”) would have let the post slide with a shrug of “everyone’s entitled to their own supercilious opinion” were it not for the final line of, “It genuinely puts me off going”, which almost seems to beg for a response of, “well then don’t, which ought to make everyone happier if it bothers you as much as you make it out to and you’re going to be vocally judgmental and disdainful about it”.

    Perhaps that’s not how you meant it, but that’s how it sounded — and your subsequent “PC” broad-brush seems to reveal the attitude is real, not just an accidental impression.

    Have you ever seen the scene with English Bob on the train in “Unforgiven”?

  284. @Beach
    @disambiguated

    No, he has a point. My sister (we're Americans) has complained about the requirement of tipping wait staff for years. Her attitude is: Isn't it enough that I'm paying $50 for a dinner, the ingredients of which probably cost a fraction of that - must I pay your employees, as well? She tips anyway, but it's always seemed something of a con to her that American restaurants are allowed to get away with employee "pay" of a couple of bucks an hour.

    I always tip 20%; the service would have to be abysmal for me to tip less. I'm not sure the European suggestion of simply adding the gratuity to the bill is right, either. I've been on the receiving end of incredibly indifferent service in many European and Bahamian restaurants, because they're getting paid, whether they get around to you, or not. I remember an especially egregious Bahama experience of no less that four waitresses standing around polishing silverware, very slowly, while multiple tables were clearly waiting to have their orders taken.

    I don't look down on anyone I tip, nor do I consider tipping ostentatious. Americans are underpaid, starting with the minimum wage, which keeps everyone's pay above it lower than it should be, in a knock on effect. American service industries are quite happy to let customers pay their employees, so they don't have to. Until that changes, you're not scoring any culture points or showing service people any respect by not tipping.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Ichneumon

    I hope your wife realizes that she’s not paying $50 to the restaurant for the *ingredients*. You can buy those at the grocery store, but a bag of raw food isn’t nearly as nice as what all you get in the restaurant experience (which includes expert preparation, ambiance, convenience, being always there for you when you suddenly decide to eat, etc.)

    As for the tipping system being a con, you’d pay for it one way or another — if tipping didn’t happen the meal prices would of course have to be inflated accordingly.

    The token amount the restaurant pays the servers is basically paying them to show up. You’re paying them personally for the time and effort they expend serving you personally. So for the duration of your meal, essentially they’re *your* employee.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Ichneumon

    Exactly! Thank you.

    Too many people, like our saintly Twinkie, are only encouraging the incompetent. A good waiter has to have a mercenary sensibility, and he understands the logic of swift and personable service paying off in larger gratuities.

    The restaurant industry has been inundated by people with no business being in it, a large number being newly-divorced women with no real salable skills outside those of wife and mother. These are the people burying social media with memes of $15 wages for restaurant workers and 20% tips being the new normal. They want you to buy something for full price (their sullen and lackadaisical service) that has no value.

    Went to Portland, ME, the best eating and drinking town in New England, with my girlfriend this weekend to celebrate her birthday. Had late afternoon drinks with raw oysters and littlenecks at a new hotspot in town, and the girl wanted to come back after we had dinner for a dessert they had on the menu. After a lovely dinner in the house of a 4-time James Beard award winner, where a savvy server earned her 25% by dint of service and spot-on recommendations on the three best choices for charcuterie board, we went back to the first place for dessert.

    We sat at the bar and were greeted by a early 20ish proto-dyke (crewcut with shaved sides, multiple piercings and ink, wife beater and Doc Martens, none of which, the girl and I agreed, changed the fact that she was fairly attractive). We ordered drinks and the dessert the girl wanted, but the bartender told her that it was sold out. She fetched the menu for us to make a second choice and was off to make our martinis. The girl didn't really see anything else that she wanted, and when the bartender came back with out drinks, we told her we were going to think about it. After a bit, the girl decided, it being her birthday and all, that she wanted something sweet, and ordered something else, along with an espresso, while I had a nice tawny port.

    It was a nice end to a good day, and I asked for the check. The bartender said she was sorry that they were out of the dessert that the girl was obviously looking forward to having, and the check was on the house. We thanked her and I left her $25, about half of what the bill and tip would have been.

    For the price to the house of about $10 in alcohol and ingredients, this bartender put a nice tip in her pocket and earned good will. We will definitely go back, as the place is great, but Portland is full up with great places, and she gave us a reason to look at them first the next trip north.

  285. @Ichneumon
    @Beach

    I hope your wife realizes that she's not paying $50 to the restaurant for the *ingredients*. You can buy those at the grocery store, but a bag of raw food isn't nearly as nice as what all you get in the restaurant experience (which includes expert preparation, ambiance, convenience, being always there for you when you suddenly decide to eat, etc.)

    As for the tipping system being a con, you'd pay for it one way or another -- if tipping didn't happen the meal prices would of course have to be inflated accordingly.

    The token amount the restaurant pays the servers is basically paying them to show up. You're paying them personally for the time and effort they expend serving you personally. So for the duration of your meal, essentially they're *your* employee.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Exactly! Thank you.

    Too many people, like our saintly Twinkie, are only encouraging the incompetent. A good waiter has to have a mercenary sensibility, and he understands the logic of swift and personable service paying off in larger gratuities.

    The restaurant industry has been inundated by people with no business being in it, a large number being newly-divorced women with no real salable skills outside those of wife and mother. These are the people burying social media with memes of $15 wages for restaurant workers and 20% tips being the new normal. They want you to buy something for full price (their sullen and lackadaisical service) that has no value.

    Went to Portland, ME, the best eating and drinking town in New England, with my girlfriend this weekend to celebrate her birthday. Had late afternoon drinks with raw oysters and littlenecks at a new hotspot in town, and the girl wanted to come back after we had dinner for a dessert they had on the menu. After a lovely dinner in the house of a 4-time James Beard award winner, where a savvy server earned her 25% by dint of service and spot-on recommendations on the three best choices for charcuterie board, we went back to the first place for dessert.

    We sat at the bar and were greeted by a early 20ish proto-dyke (crewcut with shaved sides, multiple piercings and ink, wife beater and Doc Martens, none of which, the girl and I agreed, changed the fact that she was fairly attractive). We ordered drinks and the dessert the girl wanted, but the bartender told her that it was sold out. She fetched the menu for us to make a second choice and was off to make our martinis. The girl didn’t really see anything else that she wanted, and when the bartender came back with out drinks, we told her we were going to think about it. After a bit, the girl decided, it being her birthday and all, that she wanted something sweet, and ordered something else, along with an espresso, while I had a nice tawny port.

    It was a nice end to a good day, and I asked for the check. The bartender said she was sorry that they were out of the dessert that the girl was obviously looking forward to having, and the check was on the house. We thanked her and I left her $25, about half of what the bill and tip would have been.

    For the price to the house of about $10 in alcohol and ingredients, this bartender put a nice tip in her pocket and earned good will. We will definitely go back, as the place is great, but Portland is full up with great places, and she gave us a reason to look at them first the next trip north.

  286. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Tipping culture has a lot of arbitrary aspects to it.

    But hazarding a guess at a general theory, I would guess that the pleasantly servile affect of most waitresses doesn't work on many blacks. Probably a male waiter dressed like a car dealer with some gold and implicitly challenging the black male customer to prove himself would work better.

    How do bartenders in black clubs do for tips? Pretty well, I bet.

    Replies: @International Jew, @whorefinder, @black sea, @Ed, @Ben H, @Anonymous

    U crazy! Black still do NOT tip bartenders!!!!

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