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The 2022 zeitgeist is that when people demand “equity,” what they really want is your home equity. Whether BLM or Poland’s right wing populist government, they are all responding to the increasingly antiquarian Spirit of the Age: whether 1619 or 1939, the past demands expensive rectification.
From the Associated Press:
Poland demands US$1.3 trillion war reparations from Germany
Monika Scislowska
The Associated PressPublished Sept. 1, 2022 4:01 a.m. PDT
WARSAW, POLAND – Poland’s top politician said Thursday that the government will seek equivalent of some US$1.3 trillion in reparations from Germany for the Nazis’ Second World War invasion and occupation of his country.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of the Law and Justice party, announced the huge claim at the release of a long-awaited report on the cost to the country of years of Nazi German occupation as it marks 83 years since the start of Second World War.
Kaczynski and his identical twin brother were the child actor stars in a classic 1962 children’s movie. Although children are fascinated by identical twins, adults tend to find them creepy, so the two Kaczynskis tried not to be photographed together. The other Kaczynski died in a 2011 plane crash on the way to commemorate the Soviet massacre of the Polish officer corps at Katyn that, like Katyn, wiped out much of the Polish leadership. The surviving Kaczynski blames Putin for causing the crash.
I’m not exactly sure what that old history has to do with this new history, but it probably has something. In any case, it’s awfully iStevey.
… “We will turn to Germany to open negotiations on the reparations,” Kaczynski said, adding it will be a “long and not an easy path” but “one day will bring success.”
He insisted the move would serve “true Polish-German reconciliation” that would be based on “truth.”
He claimed the German economy is capable of paying the bill.
Germany argues compensation was paid to East Bloc nations in the years after the war while territories that Poland lost in the East as borders were redrawn were compensated with some of Germany’s pre-war lands. Berlin calls the matter closed.
Germany’s Foreign Ministry said Thursday the government’s position remains “unchanged” in that “the question of reparations is concluded.”
“Poland long ago, in 1953, waived further reparations and has repeatedly confirmed this waiver,” the ministry said in an emailed response to a Associated Press query about the new Polish report.
“This is a significant basis for today’s European order. Germany stands by its responsibility for World War II politically and morally.”
… Poland’s government rejects a 1953 declaration by the country’s then-communist leaders, under pressure from the Soviet Union, agreeing not to make any further claims on Germany.
An opposition lawmaker, Grzegorz Schetyna, says the report is just a “game in the internal politics” and insists Poland needs to build good relations with Berlin.
In a country where bullet holes from the war could still be seen on houses not so long ago, recent surveys have shown that Polish public opinion is roughly equally divided on the issue of reparations. Many families still keep alive memories of family members lost in the war.
Some 6 million of Poland’s citizens, including 3 million Jews, were killed in the war. Some of them were victims of the Soviet Red Army that invaded from the east.
High on my list of nightmare scenarios is that Germany demands back the westernmost 200 mile strip of Poland that Stalin gave the Poles in 1945 and ethnically cleansed all the Germans from.
My view is: Let’s let sleeping dogs lie.
After all, Poland is one of the world’s success stories over the last third of a century.
But that kind of thinking is less and less in tune with the times.
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Where’d they get such a crazy shakedown idea?
Germany confirms $28M settlement with Munich attack families
https://www.theweek.in/news/sports/2022/09/02/germany-confirms--28m-settlement-with-munich-attack-families.html
Germany gets back part of Poland, Poland gets back part of Ukraine. Maybe the Finns will ask for part of Karelia. Nah, the money is the ask with fewer propagation effects. But maybe not everyone thinks about it in those terms.
Pro tip for the Polski: just accuse the Germans of still being Nazis. They’ll fold like cheap suitcases. (Reg: is “suitcases” right?)
Suit, not suitcases.
Poland gets the western 200km of Ukraine, including Lemberg/Lvov and Germany gets back Silesia and East Prussia.
What could go wrong?
That’s true.
Correct.
In fact, what could be easier - the Russian Government should just sign over all Russian oil and gas fields to Poland in perpetuity. Job done !
Of course, the Polish Government can't say this to Russia at the present time- it would rile the Russian Government - and the Russian people even more. Even Polish idiots know when they're playing with fire. But the Russians speedily stopped sending gas to Europe through Poland via the Yamal pipeline.
However, eastward flows of gas from Germany to Poland via the pipeline have now stopped. Maybe, this dispute was the reason, although the article does not mention it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yamal-eastward-gas-flows-stop-nominations-point-nord-stream-1-restart-2022-09-02/
There are some additional and possibly more important factors at work here. Broadly, they combine to make an impression that Germany is hostile to Poland. The demand for reperarations is a response to that.
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its “rule of law” arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The “economic union” that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski “duck” party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland’s great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level…
Cue Norm on his last Letterman appearance.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxdcz-0tm8q0-cgNJ9RNUuq3UzGlOBJjSp
Being a former Islamic ruled country really leaves a mark in terms of work ethic and morals. Greeks to this day have the same relationship with their (formerly Turkish) government as moonshiners had with the US Federal government - the goal is to hide all your income from the revenuers. Various socialist governments set the retirement age at like age 50 for certain occupations.
Back in the day when they had the drachma it kinda sorta worked - Greece was a "cheap and cheerful" tourist destination. Maybe the toilets were just the hole in the ground type but dinner was only $5 due to the exchange rate. Yeah the restaurant was just some tables set up outdoors and the menu was that you would go into the kitchen and they would point to your choice of 2 or 3 big pots simmering on the stove - one kind of lamb stew or a different kind of lamb stew but isn't that really kind of charming and folkloric? The bright sunshine and the blue water made up for a lot of sins,
especially if you were from the cold gray north. Now that everything is in Euros, Greece is as expensive as Denmark but without Danish efficiency (thank God the EU can't take the sun away).
Greece shoulda ditched the Euro (Poland still has the zloty) but the EU has poured in massive amounts of money to keep them afloat. Free money - what's not to like for a corrupt 3rd worldish kind of place? The EU has its reasons - Greece is full of late model German cars - Mercedes for the rich, VWs for the not so rich. If it wasn't for all that EU money they would be riding around on donkeys and mopeds.Replies: @njguy73, @Reg Cæsar, @epebble
2008: $14,000
2021: $17,800
Poland is still getting EU aid of about 2% of GDP per year. The Polish economy has been fairly stagnant over the last 15 years.
Originally was Germany and France. But Germany soon took over both economically and politically. As was natural biggest economy biggest population.
“Impoverishing Italy Greece and Spain”. How it works. Those countries have a huge tourist and retirement home industry. How to lure tourists and retirement home buyers.
Just lower your currency against the dollar the pound the mark French and Swiss francs.
And the tourists will pour in. And your exports will soar because of the currency difference.
But now the € euro is the euro. And tourist economies can’t lower their currencies to attract more tourists and export more products.
There are many many benefits to a unified currency for Europe. And the EU.
But Germany’s dominance is more like the federal government dominance over American states. Which is exactly what the Kings of Prussia, Otto von Bismarck 2 Kaisers and Hitler wanted all along. The EU has weaponized environmentalism to destroy small and medium businesses all over Europe. Small businesses which are replaced by one of the many divisions of mega corporations.
German Socialism environmentalism and ruling Europe. Hitler and his Nazi party won.
The euro is a particularly--particularly destructive--issue. It's one of those "sounds cool!" deals in the march toward "ever closer union" that actually really doesn't make much sense.
There have been a few times during my life when various regions of the United States--the industrial Midwest, the oil-patch, etc.--have been out of sync economically and the "one size fits all" monetary policy from the Fed was sub-optimal, or even negative for one region or another. And in the US people ... flow rather easily. (I've lived--official residence--in six states--and one Canadian province. Lots of people do many more.) Europeans are much less like to move countries, because of issues with language, culture ... tribe. "Who we are."
Having separate currencies that move and adjust as economic conditions change is a good thing. And with payments now by bankcard and every caring around a smart phone (to tell you the price in Marks or Francs or Lira) the currency issue would be close to a non-issue as well.
Most importantly, people should be responsible for themselves. The Greeks screwed up Greece. No one else. But getting that message from a plunging Drachma, and finding yourself continually poorer in terms of buying a German car or Korean TV and being mad at the Greek government in power is the right messaging. Being hitched to a much stronger--German led--Euro, being plunged into recession and having the "you suck and need to work longer and harder" delivered by German politicians is a really stupid idea.
Bottom line: Again and again the EU creates tension rather than harmony because it fails--again and again--in the two most basic aspects of governance:
1) job #1 of the state is to protect the people from invasion
2) individuals and peoples should be responsible for themselves and govern themselves.Replies: @Jack D
Next, Hungary demands Romania give back Transylvania.
There are Hungarians in Transylvania who would support the idea. The history of that place is a kind of Rorschach test, to this American at least: Ask a Hungarian and he will tell you it really is part of Hungary; ask a Romanian and he will swear it is the opposite.
Meanwhile, Orbán’s government gives citizenship to the Hungarians whom the Treaty of Trianon put on the Romanian side of the border.
Anyway, while I agree that Poland asking for reparations is either theater or long-shot opportunism, someone asking for territories is not the same, especially when the demographics of the territory make it impossible to assimilate. Maybe it would be similar if Hungary were to demand the Hungarian-majority center of Romania or some theoretical compact territory on the border, but taking Transylvania means taking 6.7 million people, of which only 1.3 are Hungarians.
Orban already gave citizenship to the Hungarians in Romania, Romania was simply the first country among its neighbors to permit double citizenship and thereby allow it.Replies: @Anonymous
So what happens if Germany tells them to pound sand? Does Poland invade Germany? Why exclude Russia?
Why exclude Ukraine? - country of Nazis that took land away from Poland rather than gave it to them.
The Oligarchs seem to be doing pretty well there.
Their clueless cuckservative regime needs money badly, they have a fanatical hatred for Russia that will never end, so will keep pushing for more war with Russia, this will cause further economic problems thus these reparations tactics. This will not work because Germany also has economic problems now, but more importantly, Germany is increasingly becoming non white so having white people demanding money from an increasingly non white land is hopeless. They will be forced to become ever more dependent on the EU, which means that things like mass immigration and other destructive policies will be forced on them.
Poland is at deaths do0r, and these stupid Polish politicians are completely to blame for it.
I have no idea of the quality of this latest article I came across and its claim "Poland ‘will NOT get EU recovery funds,’ warns top EU parliament politician in latest attack; Left-wing Belgian MEP Guy Verhofstadt posted on social media that Poland will not receive EU funds no matter how much it contributes to Ukraine war aid" but it strikes me as plausible.
Their hatred for Russia, who killed a lot of Poles but left the country racially intact, blinds them to the much greater threat of the EU, which will make Poland a third world slum.
Churchill on the other bit of the Munich Agreement in 1938:Replies: @Alden
What for, so we’ve got more space for our Afro-Arab settlement zone? Total fantasy (though the head of Poland’s central bank claims to believe it’s a real danger: https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-central-bank-adam-glapinski-germany-design-poland-territory/ He’s either an idiot or just cynically panders to the concerns and fears of ignorant pensioners).
Anyway, Poland won’t get anything, Germany will be the sick man of Europe (or rather all of Europe will be sick) soon, given the economic consequences of the escalating energy costs, so no money for reparations.
I’m not sure either Germany or Poland has any weapons left to fight with each other.
Why exclude Ukraine? – country of Nazis that took land away from Poland rather than gave it to them.
The Oligarchs seem to be doing pretty well there.
How long till Tunisia sues Italy for Rome’s destruction of Carthage?
You are of course right that “Germany also has economic problems now” but I’m wondering if this is a move in the greater game of EU politics, where a major agenda item is ending the Polish ruling class, if not the country and its people (OK, the latter’s always an EU agenda for all the states in it).
I have no idea of the quality of this latest article I came across and its claim “Poland ‘will NOT get EU recovery funds,’ warns top EU parliament politician in latest attack; Left-wing Belgian MEP Guy Verhofstadt posted on social media that Poland will not receive EU funds no matter how much it contributes to Ukraine war aid” but it strikes me as plausible.
Germany already declined this one. obvious nonsense, a shakedown attempt well outside the bounds of reasonable payback. Germans have internalized this stuff, seemingly permanently, and have been willing to spend forever paying for what happened, but they’re not gonna just do any crazy old thing a few people demand. not sure how often Poland talks to Russia about similar historical concessions, but i’m sure the answer would always be F off, so like all shakedown stuff, it’s really about going after the much more wealthy targets who are also open to at least listening to your complaints, and allowing you to attack them in their own courts and legal system.
the bigger problem for Poland is that they got squashed between both the Axis and the Soviets, so they went thru a terrible time, but jewish groups are now demanding that Poland pay up to them, after it was Poland who went thru the worst situation back in those days. now that’s chutzpah. Poland has declined all recent jewish claims on payback, as they should.
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
Thanks.
Russian energy, presumably.
Isn’t Poland also selective about its role in the EU too? Cashing checks from Brussels is fine, but obeying EU diktats, not so much. So maybe it’s not so much about whether the EU is a worthless construct, as it is about whose selection of the construct’s worth predominates?
France? France was traditionally Poland’s ally for the purpose of bracketing Germany. And traditionally France will upstage Germany however it can, with or without allies.
Wouldn’t exporters favor a weaker currency than the euro? I suppose German exports are high enough quality to overcome the currency expense for their customers, while the Med countries’ exports are mainly agricultural and therefore fungible with other producers. OTOH Med exporters get privileged access to the EU market, which is the best arrangement for sellers of local perishables, so combining that with EU ag subsidies and other handouts looks like it’s still a pretty good deal for the Meds.
I mean, would Greece be building and exporting automobiles or gas turbines if it weren’t for the EU and euro?
The Greeks already invented Western Civilization. What more do we want of them?
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
“The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.”
Cue Norm on his last Letterman appearance.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxdcz-0tm8q0-cgNJ9RNUuq3UzGlOBJjSp
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
If Poland is no S. Korea economically, then Greece is not even N. Korea. It is corrupt and unproductive. Greece has the tourist sector and it has…. actually it doesn’t have anything else. Once you get past tourism there is no part of the Greek economy that is competitive. They produce a lot of olive oil but they love to consume olive oil (man do they – order eggs in Greece and they come swimming in grease (actually a pool of olive oil) so very little gets exported. Same deal with wine. Industry – fuggedaboutit. Who wants to work inside a hot factory all day – what do you think they are – Poles? If you are working in a factory all day then when would you sit outside and drink ouzo?
Being a former Islamic ruled country really leaves a mark in terms of work ethic and morals. Greeks to this day have the same relationship with their (formerly Turkish) government as moonshiners had with the US Federal government – the goal is to hide all your income from the revenuers. Various socialist governments set the retirement age at like age 50 for certain occupations.
Back in the day when they had the drachma it kinda sorta worked – Greece was a “cheap and cheerful” tourist destination. Maybe the toilets were just the hole in the ground type but dinner was only $5 due to the exchange rate. Yeah the restaurant was just some tables set up outdoors and the menu was that you would go into the kitchen and they would point to your choice of 2 or 3 big pots simmering on the stove – one kind of lamb stew or a different kind of lamb stew but isn’t that really kind of charming and folkloric? The bright sunshine and the blue water made up for a lot of sins,
especially if you were from the cold gray north. Now that everything is in Euros, Greece is as expensive as Denmark but without Danish efficiency (thank God the EU can’t take the sun away).
Greece shoulda ditched the Euro (Poland still has the zloty) but the EU has poured in massive amounts of money to keep them afloat. Free money – what’s not to like for a corrupt 3rd worldish kind of place? The EU has its reasons – Greece is full of late model German cars – Mercedes for the rich, VWs for the not so rich. If it wasn’t for all that EU money they would be riding around on donkeys and mopeds.
Here a NY Times piece on it from Feb '86:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/19/business/advertising-greece-campaign-is-set.html
And here's a Times piece seven months later:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/28/world/greece-is-reconsidering-the-price-of-tourism.htmlReplies: @Barnard, @Reg Cæsar
https://www.historyhit.com/app/uploads/2021/11/AristotleOnassis-1.jpg
Not to mention...
https://cdn.thegentlemansjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Taki-664x442-c-center.jpg
A few years back I went to a Glendi (Open House/Festival) at a local Greek Orthodox Church. A lady was showing us around the beautiful vestments worn by the Orthodox clergy. She casually commented that it is made of Italian fabric and is made on German made machinery. We all chuckled that Orthodox religious attire is made with Catholic cloth on Protestant machines.
https://i9h5i3z4.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Orthodox-clergymen.jpg
This has rather exposed the Poles’ real agenda. They not only want to sue the Germans, but the Russians as well – not only for occupying most of Poland in 1939 along with Germany, but the whole Soviet occupation from 1945 onwards. That would come to several mutiples of $1.3 trillion. But the Russians can afford it – their trade surplus is several hundred billion USD a year, after all
In fact, what could be easier – the Russian Government should just sign over all Russian oil and gas fields to Poland in perpetuity. Job done !
Of course, the Polish Government can’t say this to Russia at the present time- it would rile the Russian Government – and the Russian people even more. Even Polish idiots know when they’re playing with fire. But the Russians speedily stopped sending gas to Europe through Poland via the Yamal pipeline.
However, eastward flows of gas from Germany to Poland via the pipeline have now stopped. Maybe, this dispute was the reason, although the article does not mention it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yamal-eastward-gas-flows-stop-nominations-point-nord-stream-1-restart-2022-09-02/
It seems like Poland is rethinking being a junior member in the EU.
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
Nominal Polish GDP per capita
2008: $14,000
2021: $17,800
Poland is still getting EU aid of about 2% of GDP per year. The Polish economy has been fairly stagnant over the last 15 years.
Anyway, Poland won't get anything, Germany will be the sick man of Europe (or rather all of Europe will be sick) soon, given the economic consequences of the escalating energy costs, so no money for reparations.Replies: @anon
What’s up with Germany’s military ambition?
I hope Poland wins the case, not because it has merit (maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t) but because I like to see pathetic manipulatable white liberals taken to the cleaners. Any country that allows millions of mohommedans inside their borders deserves what they get. My working hypothesis is that the white woke types need to experience personal, financial, perhaps physical, harm before the woke fever can break.
“Their clueless cuckservative regime needs money badly, they have a fanatical hatred for Russia that will never end, so will keep pushing for more war with Russia…”
–excuse me? Partitioning Poland in cooperation with Nazi Germany? Katyn? 45 years of colonial occupation and negative elite selection? Poland wants to be left alone. They don’t want to think about Russia. They are sick and tired of that retarded Mongol empire. The largest country in the world, with a declining population and male life expectancy of 67 years, decides to invade its neighbor and throws away tens of thousands of soldiers, with the most primitive and basic first aid kits for the wounded. Gulags or a rainbow flag? If it has to be either / or, 90% of Poles will choose option #2, at least it’s a slower path to decline.
Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest tragedy of the 20th century.” What more needs to be said? It was “the evil empire” indeed, as Reagan famously said at the UN, and there are statues of Reagan in both Warsaw and Budapest.
Who needs money? Debt to GDP figures:
Greece: 193%
Italy 151%
EU: 88%
Germany: 69%
Poland: 54%
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp?continent=europe
“Isn’t Poland also selective about its role in the EU too? Cashing checks from Brussels is fine, but obeying EU diktats, not so much.”
–the point is that today’s EU is not the EU that Poland signed up for. And the checks increasingly are for what the EU thinks is important, not for what Poland needs. Money for highways, for example, is going to zero.
“Wouldn’t exporters favor a weaker currency than the euro?”
–The euro is much weaker than the old deutschmark used to be, which favors Germany, but stronger than the old lira or drachma, which hurts Italy and Greece.
“If Poland is no S. Korea economically, then Greece is not even N. Korea.”
–true! But Central Europe has been doing so well that now Czechia is richer than Spain (per capita PPP) and Poland has surpassed Portugal.
The real problem with the EU is not that it is a bad idea (it is great). The problem is Eurocrats trying to transform it into a state like other almost-nation states- which, of course, is impossible, because all peoples in the EU are historical nations with deep roots & identities.
Pope Woytila was right when he insisted that the EU should explicitly mention its Christian roots. It should not be just some kind of trade agreement; it should be something like an economically unified civilization.
But then, the French were vigorously opposed. They "proposed" that, then, European roots in Antiquity should be mentioned. The Pope was puzzled: of course, he said, it goes without saying, but if you insist, mention it along with Christianity. But the "secular bunch" then retreated that it wouldn't be necessary etc. etc.
So they subverted any effort to explicitly mention Christian civilization (of course that they didn't care for ancient Greece & Rome).
Nay, lets everyone get “his own”. If Poland wants to retrace same steps of 1939 it should be allowed to.
Maybe Europe is implementing it’s 1618 Project.
https://www.history.com/topics/reformation/thirty-years-war
There are buildings in the center of Warsaw (among the few that survived at all) that still have clearly visible pockmarks from bullets today.
https://blog.inyourpocket.com/poland/2018/07/warsaw-scars-of-the-uprising/
Someone shoulda given this advice to Putin. The arrangements that were peacefully achieved during and at the end of the Cold War were miraculous in that Europe (putting aside the Balkans where they are always fighting and even Yugoslavia lasted for almost 50 years after the war) in that there was no one killing and dying in European warfare for 70 years – a very long stretch by European standards. Putin too should have let sleeping dogs lie. Once you open the can of worms of border change then Ukraine is not the only worm. What about Kaliningrad? Karelia? Border change is a game that more than one can play.
As for Poland, demanding reparations is the kind of thing that “populist” politicians do. No politician in S. Korea or China ever reduced his popularity by condemning the Japanese or asking them for money. If you are a black leader in America, what is the downside with your black constituents when you demand reparations for slavery? I’m pretty sure that Kaczynski knows that Germany isn’t going to just write him a check for $1.5 trillion but what’s the harm in asking? The Polish man on the street is all for it – free money, righting of historical wrongs – what’s not to like?
As others point out, if Poland wants to talk about reparations then Germany will want to talk about borders. The last time Germany was pressed for massive reparations it caused a world war.
Jewish populist politician?
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/22/roma-compensation-holocaust-industry-jews-get-paid-and-other-victims-of-nazi-genocide-do-not-german-repentance-insincere-only-to-jews-gypsies-and-gypsy-genocide-knesebeck/
btw,
Jews Hate Poles More Than Jews Hate Germans.
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/29/yishai-sarid-jews-hate-poles-more-than-jews-hate-germans-and-germans-buy-jewish-forgiveness-jedwabne-exhumation-forbidden-pretext-destroyed-genocidal-nakba-naqba-wished-sarid/Replies: @Chriss
I don’t know I’d call Poland a ‘success story’ so much as the EU plowed a huge amount of money into it and it exported millions of surplus population to Britain, Ireland and the rest of the EU and that this happened after it’s industry was wrecked by entering a customs union with Germany right over the border.
Poland’s political landscape is pretty crappy with some of the most stupid, incompetent and corrupt politicians in Europe. The amount of terrible things they’d have done to Poland if not for EU regulations (IE, Franco-German standards of governance) stopping them. Well, look at what Zelensky is now doing in Ukraine with his ‘reforms’ under cover of war. Looting of the country and leaving it to it’s predators.
A low trust society to the bone.
Laterly Poland has been burning bridges in Europe as the innate personality and cultural differences between East and West become more clear. (That Eastward expansion of the EU was a mistake is something that the Germans have begun to tacitly accept, the German imagination of an Eastward sphere of influence for themselves has evaporated, never trust the neocons.) And most recently Poland, Lithuania and Estonia have been trying their best to escalate this war from a proxy war into a real NATO war, trying to get the Western powers to destroy Russia for them like the US got Ukraine to fight Russia for it.
So I’d be more worried about Poland stupidly starting WW3 than Germany.
But seriously? I know next to nothing about Polish politics--other than it has one of those "evil, Nazi" governments that Biden would denounce as corrupting "our democracy".
That means that compared to Western politicians who have been dutifully following the American ideology and selling out their people and destroying their nations ... the Polish guys are outstanding leaders, heroes of civilization.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666
As for Poland, demanding reparations is the kind of thing that “populist” politicians do.
Jewish populist politician?
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/22/roma-compensation-holocaust-industry-jews-get-paid-and-other-victims-of-nazi-genocide-do-not-german-repentance-insincere-only-to-jews-gypsies-and-gypsy-genocide-knesebeck/
btw,
Jews Hate Poles More Than Jews Hate Germans.
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/29/yishai-sarid-jews-hate-poles-more-than-jews-hate-germans-and-germans-buy-jewish-forgiveness-jedwabne-exhumation-forbidden-pretext-destroyed-genocidal-nakba-naqba-wished-sarid/
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/04/26/holocaust-peerless-polish-death-camp-lie-confronted-german-guilt-diffusion-rejected-and-then-endorsed-ihra/
Germans probably suffered more than anyone else during WWII.
When is Russia, America, England and International Jewry going to pay reparations to Germans??? MILLIONS of Germans BRUTALLY murdered during and after the war by “the good guys.” Poles brutally beat, murdered, and raped their share of displaced Germans as well. How many German POW suffered in the Rhine Meadow Camps?? How many had confessions beat out of them, their testicles crushed???
When is International Jewry going to pay Ukrainians for their prominent role in the Holodomor.
They voted for the mad bastard.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
But Poland and the near Soviet Union--Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltics--where much worse. Even regular old Russia, Russia was worse.
Also comparable, Yugoslavia, Hungry, Greece, Vietnam (French Indochina). And really bad but a lesser % of population--Indonesia (Dutch East Indies) and Philippines.
Germany was terrible, but a "less bad" place to be than on its "Eastern Front".
~~~
The lessons here are obvious:
-- War is bad.
-- Imperialism is bad.
-- The world is best off--and way, way more peaceful--with diverse peoples sorted into their correct one-peopleish nations with good, agreed-upon borders, managing their own affairs.
Simple lessons. Even I can figure this out. Unfortunately, we have "elites" who are very hostile to these simple, clear lessons and really do not want a better world.
“I don’t know I’d call Poland a ‘success story’ so much as the EU plowed a huge amount of money into it and it exported millions of surplus population to Britain, Ireland and the rest of the EU.”
Between 2004 and 2021 Poland received 143 billion euros (net) from the EU. During those 18 years, Poland’s cumulative GDP has been app. 9.1 trillion USD (world bank) call it 6.5 trillion EUR at a conservative 1.4 EUR / USD. The total net contribution of EU funds has been 2.2% of Poland’s GDP. Is that huge? With all the associated costs of EU bureaucracy and the legal “acquis communautaire” that come along with it? Poland would have been better off with a simple free trade treaty. And Greece, Portugal, even Spain got much bigger transfers in the 80’s and 90’s, and look at them now.
The surplus population has been returning, and there are also millions of Ukrainians working in Poland. For years before the war, Poland has been issuing more immigration work visas than any other European country.
Steve’s frequent repetition of this point shows that he is obviously writing for boomers.
What if Poland’s success over the last third of a century is related to the fact that it is not willing to let sleeping dogs lie?
So, what, therefore, is the purpose of the European federalism?
The whole point of the EU, despite the mealy mouthed duplicitous game most of Europe’s politicians talk, is the create a federal Europe, that is a ‘United States of Europe’ modelled on the United States of America.
The idea is that all differences of nationality merge into a common ‘European’ identity, and past disputes and emnities between the former nations dissolve away, and a ‘new’ Europe forges ahead ……
And Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" as their anthem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYkiI2QK0n8
As should have the CIA/NATO. Your view that the world was in a stable state of peace prior to 2022 that would have lasted indefinitely if Putin hadn’t ended it is naive if not dishonest.
Both Chiang and Mao waived claims to reparations from Japan for various reasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#World_War_II_Japan
Although de facto reparations were quite significant. Foremost, Chiang Kai-shek’s first battle to defend Taiwan in 1949 was commanded by a Japanese general,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_Nemoto#Battle_at_Kinmen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_China#Postwar_issues
PRC’s nationalistic saber-rattling against Japan is relatively recent. Many Chinese/Japanese regard the other as running dogs for Americans/Russians. In addition PRC has eclipsed Japan economically, so no longer needs aid from it.
Deng Xiaoping at state visit to Tokyo in 1978 giving 45° saikeirei 最敬礼 “the most respectful gesture”
Reparations, never enough, never soon enough. Which America will soon find out.
Jewish populist politician?
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/22/roma-compensation-holocaust-industry-jews-get-paid-and-other-victims-of-nazi-genocide-do-not-german-repentance-insincere-only-to-jews-gypsies-and-gypsy-genocide-knesebeck/
btw,
Jews Hate Poles More Than Jews Hate Germans.
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/07/29/yishai-sarid-jews-hate-poles-more-than-jews-hate-germans-and-germans-buy-jewish-forgiveness-jedwabne-exhumation-forbidden-pretext-destroyed-genocidal-nakba-naqba-wished-sarid/Replies: @Chriss
Poles have not been fooled by international organisations (such as the IHRA) that chauvinistically promote the memory of the Holocaust at the expense of others:
https://www.jewsandpolesdatabase.org/2022/04/26/holocaust-peerless-polish-death-camp-lie-confronted-german-guilt-diffusion-rejected-and-then-endorsed-ihra/
lol, you wish you were ruled by a party like PiS.
Not to be a jerk or anything, but this Great War was started over the alleged sovereignty of Poland which we happily transferred to the Soviet Union for reasons that I still do not understand.
Is Poland also seeking reparations from the other country that dismembered it in 1939? You know, the one that got to keep their conquered territory in 1945, instead of giving it up and then some to the new, west-shifted Poland.
Post-communist Poland may be a success story economically, but the neocon-fomented war in Ukraine has brought out their weaknesses. Despite a decades-long paucity of Jews compared to the previous 500 year coalition, Poles are fully vulnerable to Jewish-fomented Western cultural rot. Further, Jews resent both Poles and Western Ukrainians for the increase in anti-Jewish sentiment there in the National Socialist era (they hate Central and Eastern Ukrainians for the anti-Jewish sentiments they have always had). Jews of Zelensky’s ilk would like nothing better than for Poland to join rump -heh- Ukraine as a degenerate global headquarters for swindling and sex-trafficking White gentiles, while creating a new generation of Somalian and Congolese ‘Ukrainians’ and ‘Poles.’
And oh yeah, a reminder of a news story from a few years back: Jews want their own WW2 reparations, from Poland. Probably that’s Polish strategy here: make the infinitely susceptible Germans the ultimate payers.
But that story’s not covered much now, and as Jews have famously short memories, in keeping with the great goodwill of that overriding Jewish sentiment: ‘let bygones be bygones’, probably they’ve forgotten those reparation demands.
Invade the world, indict the world.
Pretty sure that check has expired by now Poland.
Sell them back East Prussia. Well the Polish part anyways.
Not to be a jerk or anything, but this Great War was started over the alleged sovereignty of Poland which we happily transferred to the Soviet Union for reasons that I still do not understand.
The great contradiction of WW2 that both conservatives and liberals don’t like discussing.
We are here to liberate you!!! Get out of Poland you damn Nazees!
Poland we are now handing you over to Stalin.
Patton was right the whole time. Might as well take on the USSR while we had troops on the ground. Would have created a free Poland and an end to loser Slav kings like Stalin and Putin.
As there are today in Budapest, not far from the prime minister’s residence.
In 1939, Poland foolishly insulted both Germany and the Russians. That didn’t work out well.
Obviously your pro-Russian views are coloring your picture of Poland as much as (or even more than) Polish anti-Russian feeling colors their view of Moscow. You don’t sound at all like an unbiased observer. If Poland is a low trust society then what is Russia? A SUPER low trust society?
Poland had a really bad mid-century (1939 to 1989) and you don’t recover overnight from that kind of damage. But a low trust society can be converted over time to a higher trust society. Taiwan and S. Korea were once low trust societies but now they are close to Western standards. Generally speaking Poland is moving in the right direction. Sometimes it is two steps forward and one step back but over time they progress. Poles are never quite going to be Germans but even Germans aren’t Germans anymore. I know that you will never admit it, but even Ukraine was moving in the right direction before Putin tried to “help” them. I visited both Poland and Ukraine and I had zero “low trust society” type problems. Zero cops asking for bribes, zero taxi drivers trying to cheat you on the fare, none of that kind of stuff. You could really see that they were making an effort to join the global economy and culture, especially in the bigger cities. They weren’t fully there yet but they were working on it.
I understand for some people here globo-homo culture is evil so Russian determination to reject it is the right and noble path but I don’t think that is really going to work out well for Russia and anyway that’s not what is really happening. Putin is just a mafioso larping as a nationalist.
Globohomo has worked insidiously and assiduously to destroy the particularly high-trust one-peopleish nations of the West and degrade them into low-trust multi-ethnic blobs. And while the real passion for destruction is white nations, globohomo aims the same "must have immigration!" propaganda at Japan, which would quickly destroy its unique non-Western very Japanese high-trust culture.
High trust is formed by having a common people with common norms and values. Period. People who understand each other and are "on the same team" winning or losing together--and sharing "posterity"--trust each other. People from different tribes, who win or lose separately do not.
J Ross posted the London underground video yesterday. Blacks blobs going all black on some queers with no intervention--because London no longer has "high trust", because London no longer has a common people, common culture, common norms, or civilized norms at all!
https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-broadway-isnt-diverse-enough-i-mean-its-too-white-i-_don/#comment-5521542
That's your globohomo.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
But my 50,000 foot take is more like Putin is larping as the Tsar. Not a Russian nationalist, but a Russian imperialist.
I realize there are legit--but very small scale for Russia--"people not their desired nation" issues in Ukraine. (Akin to Northern Ireland--a situation I understand a bit better.) But the real tell--as I've said before--is Chechnya. Putin fought a brutal war and leveled Grozny to keep the Chechens *in* Russia. Nationalist? LOL.
I'm an American nationalist, and if I was dictator in charge, I would not be invading Canada or Mexico, I would be kicking 100+ million odd people *out* of the United States. (Dumping their territory if that was required.)
Imperialist: We should have these folks, we should add those folks ...
Nationalist: No thanks.Replies: @Jack D
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
Excellent excellent post. Everyone should read it before jumping in with ignorant comments. The EU is Germany always was and will be for a long time.
Originally was Germany and France. But Germany soon took over both economically and politically. As was natural biggest economy biggest population.
“Impoverishing Italy Greece and Spain”. How it works. Those countries have a huge tourist and retirement home industry. How to lure tourists and retirement home buyers.
Just lower your currency against the dollar the pound the mark French and Swiss francs.
And the tourists will pour in. And your exports will soar because of the currency difference.
But now the € euro is the euro. And tourist economies can’t lower their currencies to attract more tourists and export more products.
There are many many benefits to a unified currency for Europe. And the EU.
But Germany’s dominance is more like the federal government dominance over American states. Which is exactly what the Kings of Prussia, Otto von Bismarck 2 Kaisers and Hitler wanted all along. The EU has weaponized environmentalism to destroy small and medium businesses all over Europe. Small businesses which are replaced by one of the many divisions of mega corporations.
German Socialism environmentalism and ruling Europe. Hitler and his Nazi party won.
“He insisted the move would serve “true Polish-German reconciliation” that would be based on “truth.”” When ever they say it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.
Precedent has been set though; West Germany paid the state of Israel 3 billion marks over 14 years beginning in 1952, and also paid the World Jewish Congress 450 million marks.Surprised that didn’t demand the lucre sooner post 1989.
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
Obviously, there is a whole bunch of both internal Polish politics and EU tensions–ex. stiffing Poland on EU funds–involved. Who likes getting jacked around?
The euro is a particularly–particularly destructive–issue. It’s one of those “sounds cool!” deals in the march toward “ever closer union” that actually really doesn’t make much sense.
There have been a few times during my life when various regions of the United States–the industrial Midwest, the oil-patch, etc.–have been out of sync economically and the “one size fits all” monetary policy from the Fed was sub-optimal, or even negative for one region or another. And in the US people … flow rather easily. (I’ve lived–official residence–in six states–and one Canadian province. Lots of people do many more.) Europeans are much less like to move countries, because of issues with language, culture … tribe. “Who we are.”
Having separate currencies that move and adjust as economic conditions change is a good thing. And with payments now by bankcard and every caring around a smart phone (to tell you the price in Marks or Francs or Lira) the currency issue would be close to a non-issue as well.
Most importantly, people should be responsible for themselves. The Greeks screwed up Greece. No one else. But getting that message from a plunging Drachma, and finding yourself continually poorer in terms of buying a German car or Korean TV and being mad at the Greek government in power is the right messaging. Being hitched to a much stronger–German led–Euro, being plunged into recession and having the “you suck and need to work longer and harder” delivered by German politicians is a really stupid idea.
Bottom line: Again and again the EU creates tension rather than harmony because it fails–again and again–in the two most basic aspects of governance:
1) job #1 of the state is to protect the people from invasion
2) individuals and peoples should be responsible for themselves and govern themselves.
Just $1.3 trillion?
And the Cathedral in a major American city, Chicago , has bullet holes on the wall. From a battle between 2 mafia factions during the 1930s.
And the Vatican still has bullet, spear and sword marks on the interior walls of some galleries from Carlos 1 and 6 1527 sack and occupation of Rome.
The house Daniel Boone lived in when he finally retired and died in has bullet marks on the walls from Indian attacks. And rifle port holes for defense. The house was built in the 1820s.
And I still have a scar on my left index finger from working in a college cafeteria in the 1980s to pay for my room and board. I was cutting a bunch of beef roasts, and I put that finger just a little too far underneath one. Got some nice stitches at the campus clinic.
I want reparations.
(And I worked for my useless degree, instead of borrowing taxpayer-guaranteed money.)Replies: @Rob McX, @SafeNow
BUT, I want the eastern Roman Empire back.
And, the lands Alexander seized, too. The lands not the peoples currently residing there unto.
1. Poland has been in conflict with the EU over disbursement of post-covid reconstruction funds. The EU has been imposing more and more conditions beyond its "rule of law" arguments. This is part and parcel of a creeping EU takeover of national functions and roles. The "economic union" that Poland has signed up for is long in the past. And the EU is seen as essentially a club under German direction, the EU commission president is a German. Ten or twenty years ago there was a sense in both Germany and Poland that a prosperous Poland would benefit Germany, as a stable neighbor and a reservoir of consumers. Perhaps Poland has become too strong and too competitive. And Poland will never allow a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, the shadows of Molotov-Ribbentrop are too dark. At the same time, the conflict over EU funding has aspects of an intervention in domestic Polish affairs. It has been made clear that if the electorate tosses the Kaczynski "duck" party in the upcoming elections, the funds will be disbursed.
2. Germany did not listen to years of warnings from Poland and the Baltics over its reliance on German energy. Essentially, the EU under German control gets to pick and choose where the EU must have unity, and where going it alone (cheap energy for its industry) is more convenient (for the Germans). Rather than admitting its error, and investigating its corrupt elites, Germany has been making a weak and insincere effort to help Ukraine since the start of the war. And while Poland has taken over two million Ukrainian refugees, the EU has not allocated a penny of new funding for this.
This is not about who started this war, who is more responsible for it, but about unity in the EU. If Germany can be selective about its role in the EU, then the EU is a worthless construct. The exit of the UK was a crucial blow, because there is now no counter-balance to German ambition to dominate and exploit EU structures.
3. The one size fits all euro currency arrangement has benefitted primarily German exporters, while impoverishing Spain, Italy and Greece. Ambrose Evans Pritchard has been banging on about this in the Telegraph for years. It is unbelievable that Greece is now poorer than Poland, and this is less because of Poland's great economic management (it is no Singapore or Korea) and more because of the structural corset of the EU and the euro, which choke off opportunities for countries like Greece.
In short, the move on reparations now is Poland taking the conflict with Germany to the next level...Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Ron Mexico, @Jack D, @anonymous, @Alden, @AnotherDad, @Wokechoke
Would enjoy watching the Bundeswehr invade Poland and flatten Warsaw tbh. Could rerun Molotov Ribbentrop thing.
I don’t know how they came up with the number, but just like what Putin is doing in Ukraine today, the damage that Germany (and Russia) did to Poland in lives and property is vast and incalculable. Not even $1.3 trillion will bring back the dead – 1/5 of their prewar population.
1) Stop murdering German expatriates, and return German territory stolen after WW I.
2) Ignore all reasonable German proposals and, after the British useless guarantee to Poland, become downright bellicose towards Germany. The Poles also would have had to ignore Roosevelt's admonition not to negotiate with Germany!
Most of us know the choice Poland made: Believe the useless British guarantee.
I submit that, had Poland chosen to hitch its wagon, as it were, to Germany's industrial locomotive in the late 1930's, we'd have a much different, better?, world today.
As to Poland's demand for blackm ahem "reparations", I'd say yeah, let's talk about that. First you compensate the families and inheritors of the 35,000 German expatriates you murdered, and all the property you stole from them. Let's see, 10,000,000 Euros per murder x 35,000 = 35 billion Euros.
Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.
Now then, you, Poland, let us have your claims, and justification plus PROOF, thereof.Replies: @Jack D, @Pixo, @John Johnson
Patton was just as much a sucker as anyone else. If not worse.
What happened to the property of the 3 million Polish Jews that were killed? it went to the Poles. Are the Poles going to repatriate Jewish property back to the heirs of those that lost it. They passed a law denying any Jewish claims to their land. Sounds like the value of that property Poles seized from their Jews alone is enough to compensate, and they got Danzig. Germany should tell Poland once they return all the Jewish land prior to WWII to the rightful heirs, they will discuss reparation, and ask for Danzig.
The Jewish property was confiscated by Germany during the war. Then confiscated after the war by Russia which occupied Poland and took what it wanted.
Therefore, Zionist organizations should demand Russia compensate descendants of Polish Jews for the property Russia acquired in 1945 and used until 1990.
Germany recovered very rapidly from far worse destruction, but Germans are Germans.
I have read accounts of GIs stationed in Germany in the early 1960s and they were astonished to reason that by the early 60s Germans seemed to be living better than their folks back in Ohio or Virginia.
But overall yes the W. Germans made a miraculous economic recovery due in part to their strong work ethic.Replies: @prosa123
Germany recovered very rapidly from far worse destruct, but Germans are Germans.
I have read accounts of GIs stationed in Germany in the early 1960s and they were astonished to reason that by the early 60s Germans seemed to be living better than their folks back in Ohio or Virginia.
Once you start giving money the spigot will never be turned off. Even today some Jewish organization or another tries to shakedown an obscure Czech or Swiss insurance company for purported policies left by long-gone Jews. And in the USA the 9/11 families are trying to squeeze the national assets of the impoverished Afghanistan government, $4 billion or so seized by the feds. The 9/11 families have already been compensated 2-3 times over by the US taxpayer and private insurance companies. C’mon.
The euro is a particularly--particularly destructive--issue. It's one of those "sounds cool!" deals in the march toward "ever closer union" that actually really doesn't make much sense.
There have been a few times during my life when various regions of the United States--the industrial Midwest, the oil-patch, etc.--have been out of sync economically and the "one size fits all" monetary policy from the Fed was sub-optimal, or even negative for one region or another. And in the US people ... flow rather easily. (I've lived--official residence--in six states--and one Canadian province. Lots of people do many more.) Europeans are much less like to move countries, because of issues with language, culture ... tribe. "Who we are."
Having separate currencies that move and adjust as economic conditions change is a good thing. And with payments now by bankcard and every caring around a smart phone (to tell you the price in Marks or Francs or Lira) the currency issue would be close to a non-issue as well.
Most importantly, people should be responsible for themselves. The Greeks screwed up Greece. No one else. But getting that message from a plunging Drachma, and finding yourself continually poorer in terms of buying a German car or Korean TV and being mad at the Greek government in power is the right messaging. Being hitched to a much stronger--German led--Euro, being plunged into recession and having the "you suck and need to work longer and harder" delivered by German politicians is a really stupid idea.
Bottom line: Again and again the EU creates tension rather than harmony because it fails--again and again--in the two most basic aspects of governance:
1) job #1 of the state is to protect the people from invasion
2) individuals and peoples should be responsible for themselves and govern themselves.Replies: @Jack D
There are at least four (and when you add NATO, five) major aspects to the EU, which are really separate and independent things that have gotten blurred together. The Founding Fathers had to deal with the same issues among the 13 original states and I think they came up with pretty good solutions. The colonies all shared a common language and culture to a greater extent so there can never be a United States of Europe but you can see why they would want to imitate the most successful republic in history.
1. A common market for goods – this is pretty much good all around – having goods flow freely is generally good for everyone – it leads to the lowest prices. It’s nice to be able to drive right across the border and not have to stop at customs.
2. A common market for labor (free flow of population) – a bit more questionable but the FFs said yes to some extent. Note that in the American system certain types of labor (those requiring “licenses”) don’t exactly flow freely.
3. A common currency. Nice not to have to be constantly changing money. Even with credit cards and ATMs, there are always (hidden) costs to changing money. Again the FFs opted for a central currency.
4. A common set of laws and a central legislature – again the FFs split the baby in half. You have 50 states each with their own (for example) criminal law and educational systems but there is also a central government making laws that supposedly concern national matters. The problem is that power tends to accumulate at the center so that the central gov. gets stronger and stronger over time.
5. A central military command – you can see this is necessary on the example of the fasces – a bundle of sticks that is bound together into an axe handle. Any stick by itself is weak and would break if you tried to use it as an axe handle but when you bind them all together they become strong.
My point is simply that the euro was a highly political project that is economically destructive--and ends up being politically destructive as well.
-- European countries are still very much separate nations with economies not necessarily in sync, nor with easy flow of people for a common monetary policy.
-- European counties are separate political entities, so moving monetary policy off and giving it to German bankers takes sovereignty and responsibly away from national peoples and in the process introduces cross-national hostility and grievance--ex. Greece and Germany--into this issue.
The Germans actually do a better job than many/most nations would do. Just like parents could often do a better job making a whole hosts of decisions than their children. But there is no long term substitute for "growing up" and being responsible for yourself. Having someone else dictate to you and then blaming them is not healthy for either party.
Surely some little corner of your soul, Mr iSteve, would like to see Poland invade Germany and give it a hell of a beating?
My deep roots are in Western Europe (my American heimat is Iowa) and I’m one of those people who think there is an East-West cline/divide that is part genetic and part cultural. Count me as a Westie partisan.
But seriously? I know next to nothing about Polish politics–other than it has one of those “evil, Nazi” governments that Biden would denounce as corrupting “our democracy”.
That means that compared to Western politicians who have been dutifully following the American ideology and selling out their people and destroying their nations … the Polish guys are outstanding leaders, heroes of civilization.
Well, it just happened (against all military logic). And it was a criminal slaughter and total destruction of Ukrainian forces.
Not a peep from the propaganda press.
The EU's main problem is that it is led by virtue signalling globalist idiots. There is only so much stupidity that people can bear before they demand change. This winter is going to be rough for the EU and as Germany's stock falls, the Eastern countries are going to feel less deferential.Replies: @Jack D
Off Topic Question:
At what point is this a Federally sanctioned foreign invasion, and when we satisfy the conditions required to define it as such, who are we supposed to shoot in the head to undermine this activity?
Whoever you want. It’s open season. But that means you have to be front and center. Why don’t you go ahead and show us how it’s done? Make sure to have video proof.
Well, the Poles had a choice:
1) Stop murdering German expatriates, and return German territory stolen after WW I.
2) Ignore all reasonable German proposals and, after the British useless guarantee to Poland, become downright bellicose towards Germany. The Poles also would have had to ignore Roosevelt’s admonition not to negotiate with Germany!
Most of us know the choice Poland made: Believe the useless British guarantee.
I submit that, had Poland chosen to hitch its wagon, as it were, to Germany’s industrial locomotive in the late 1930’s, we’d have a much different, better?, world today.
As to Poland’s demand for blackm ahem “reparations”, I’d say yeah, let’s talk about that. First you compensate the families and inheritors of the 35,000 German expatriates you murdered, and all the property you stole from them. Let’s see, 10,000,000 Euros per murder x 35,000 = 35 billion Euros.
Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.
Now then, you, Poland, let us have your claims, and justification plus PROOF, thereof.
Apparently, half of Prussia wasn’t enough.
I guess the Germans could work something out with the Russians to get this pesky thorn out of both their sides. Throw in the rabid Baltic chihuahuas for good measure.
There certainly is a divide, possibly due to the fact that the Eastern Bloc missed out on 40 or so years of anti-racist indoctrination (while being fed hogwash of another kind that was becoming increasingly irrelevant in the 70s and 80s). I hope Western Europe comes round to its Eastern counterpart’s way of thinking, rather than vice versa.
But seriously? I know next to nothing about Polish politics--other than it has one of those "evil, Nazi" governments that Biden would denounce as corrupting "our democracy".
That means that compared to Western politicians who have been dutifully following the American ideology and selling out their people and destroying their nations ... the Polish guys are outstanding leaders, heroes of civilization.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666
Correct.
For example, Poland has been probably the most like Hungary in standing up for its own culture and people in the face of globalist anti-White efforts to invade and change every European country.
Poland is part of the Central European Visegrád Group of nations with Hungary, Czech and Slovakia. The nonsense in the Ukraine, however, has brought about a rift: Poland is aligned with the western effort while Hungary does not so much stand for it. However, Hungary has welcomed refugees from the Ukraine, proving that the Hungarian people are not monsters and in fact are human beings willing to help fellow Europeans who are unwilling victims of globalism.
Germany confirms $28M settlement with Munich attack families
https://www.theweek.in/news/sports/2022/09/02/germany-confirms--28m-settlement-with-munich-attack-families.htmlReplies: @Barnard, @beavertales
Right, I assume they are pursuing this because the Germans are an easy and dumb target. If this was a legitimate tactic worthy of pursuing, they would have a stronger case for more money against the Russians. Of course that would be a total waste of time in the best scenario for the Poles.
Being a former Islamic ruled country really leaves a mark in terms of work ethic and morals. Greeks to this day have the same relationship with their (formerly Turkish) government as moonshiners had with the US Federal government - the goal is to hide all your income from the revenuers. Various socialist governments set the retirement age at like age 50 for certain occupations.
Back in the day when they had the drachma it kinda sorta worked - Greece was a "cheap and cheerful" tourist destination. Maybe the toilets were just the hole in the ground type but dinner was only $5 due to the exchange rate. Yeah the restaurant was just some tables set up outdoors and the menu was that you would go into the kitchen and they would point to your choice of 2 or 3 big pots simmering on the stove - one kind of lamb stew or a different kind of lamb stew but isn't that really kind of charming and folkloric? The bright sunshine and the blue water made up for a lot of sins,
especially if you were from the cold gray north. Now that everything is in Euros, Greece is as expensive as Denmark but without Danish efficiency (thank God the EU can't take the sun away).
Greece shoulda ditched the Euro (Poland still has the zloty) but the EU has poured in massive amounts of money to keep them afloat. Free money - what's not to like for a corrupt 3rd worldish kind of place? The EU has its reasons - Greece is full of late model German cars - Mercedes for the rich, VWs for the not so rich. If it wasn't for all that EU money they would be riding around on donkeys and mopeds.Replies: @njguy73, @Reg Cæsar, @epebble
In 1986, George Lois (yeah, that guy) created a campaign for Greek tourism where celebrities like Phil Rizzuto, Zsa Zsa Gabor, and Johnny Unitas stated their European ancestry and said “I’m going home to Greece.” Greece marketing itself as the birthplace of Western Civilization. Now there’s a campaign you couldn’t do today.
Here a NY Times piece on it from Feb ’86:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/19/business/advertising-greece-campaign-is-set.html
And here’s a Times piece seven months later:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/28/world/greece-is-reconsidering-the-price-of-tourism.html
Are Poles demanding reparations from Russia for an even longer and more destructive and bloody occupation?
This coming from you is hilarious. Your lack of self-awareness is staggering.
Back to your pet obsession. Is there any thread you won’t hijack?
“Poland is at deaths do0r, and these stupid Polish politicians are completely to blame for it.”
Their hatred for Russia, who killed a lot of Poles but left the country racially intact, blinds them to the much greater threat of the EU, which will make Poland a third world slum.
Churchill on the other bit of the Munich Agreement in 1938:
Those parts which Germany lost to Russia, Poland etc. have more importance for world culture than most historical cultures. I am, of course, aware that there was war; that human lives were lost; that Germany waged war of aggression … but, we should take this into account, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_K%C3%B6nigsberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Gda%C5%84sk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Silesia
Let's see:
1) 1933: Judea Declares War on Germany.
2) Between the wars, Poles murder German expatriates by the tens of thousands and refuses to talk to Germany to stop this and settle a number of other issues.
3) 1939, Germany marches into Poland to stop this massacre, and also address a number of other irritants.
4) 1939, Britain, France, and USA de facto, declare war on Germany.
5) 1941, the Soviet Union is poised to invade Germany and western Europe. (Icebreaker).
6) Germany executes a peremptory strike to stop this.
7) The USA aids and abets the Soviet Union's agression with millions of tons of war material.
And Germany is the aggressor/bad guy?
Has the world gone nuts? No need to answer, the answer is self evident.Replies: @John Johnson
After all, the Germans ARE supporting Nazis in the Ukraine….
“zero taxi drivers trying to cheat you on the fare, none of that kind of stuff”
You won’t like Italy south of Rome. Great place, but having to check every time you buy a ticket that you’ve been sold the right one at the right price gets a bit wearing beyond a week. Day 1 in Naples we’d asked for 4 tickets at 6 euros each, he gave us 1 euro tickets, pocketed 20 euros and we only found out when we were on the train. Not sure we ever got charged the same fare twice.
There are strict rules on how much a taxi can charge to and from the airport. These seem to be more of a starting amount in a bidding process.
“Some 6 million of Poland’s citizens, including 3 million Jews, were killed in the war.”
So how come Poland isn’t demanding the replacement of those 3 million Jews with another 3 million Jews?
Russia deserves reparations for the famous Sealed Train that was sent to them by the German government. How about a new Sealed Train packed with €1.917 trillion in Euro bonds?
But seriously? I know next to nothing about Polish politics--other than it has one of those "evil, Nazi" governments that Biden would denounce as corrupting "our democracy".
That means that compared to Western politicians who have been dutifully following the American ideology and selling out their people and destroying their nations ... the Polish guys are outstanding leaders, heroes of civilization.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666
Consider the source. Altai is some kind of pro-Russian partisan and Poles and Russians get along like cats and dogs even in the best of times. Right now when Russian-Polish tensions are especially high due to the war in Ukraine is not the best of times. You wouldn’t expect a cat to have anything nice to say about a dog even it is a pretty good dog to most people.
Regarding the East/West cline, for most of its history (except when it gets dragged east by Russia) Poland was a Western nation. Roman Catholic Church, Copernicus, Roman alphabet, etc.
As I wrote on twitter (with a bit of an addition or two)
The ruling part in Poland (PiS) is facing several issues that it is… not handling well (wild understatement).
Inflation
Energy
the poisoning of the Odra / Oder River (in Poland though PiS somehow is claiming that Germans may have sent poison… upstream….
And there are ongoing problems with the EU not liking PiS’s attempt to make the courts an arm of the governing party (so that courts will never rule against it).
There are more problems but that will do.
PiS is run by an old communist era fossil (Kaczyński) who hasn’t had a new thought in… many, many years.
Elections are next year and he wants to activate the base (mostly rural, mostly older, mostly less education) and talking about reparations from Germany is one of his go-to moves.
He’s done it several times before and it usually goes away on its own due to general disinterest among the electorate except for a few extreme rightwingers or the welfare dependent who hope for bigger government handouts (PiS is the “gibs” party it gets votes by promising government handouts).
As I said very, very few people in Poland care about this and Kaczyński knows it.
But seriously? I know next to nothing about Polish politics--other than it has one of those "evil, Nazi" governments that Biden would denounce as corrupting "our democracy".
That means that compared to Western politicians who have been dutifully following the American ideology and selling out their people and destroying their nations ... the Polish guys are outstanding leaders, heroes of civilization.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666
Does anyone remember a month ago when Steve did a post about how the upcoming August counteroffensive would be the big turning point in that war?
Well, it just happened (against all military logic). And it was a criminal slaughter and total destruction of Ukrainian forces.
Not a peep from the propaganda press.
The EU’s main problem is that it is led by virtue signalling globalist idiots. There is only so much stupidity that people can bear before they demand change. This winter is going to be rough for the EU and as Germany’s stock falls, the Eastern countries are going to feel less deferential.
If the Western press is a propaganda press, what is the Russian press and why should we believe their propaganda instead of Western propaganda?
And the castle in my village is still in ruins after being destroyed by cannon fire in 1643 during the English Civil War. But what were we talking about anyway?
For those concerned about European borders and justice, they should address a truly outrageous annexation. In 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland and seized half of its land while Soviet police massacred 22,000 influential Polish POWs and civilians. This area was invaded by Germany two years later, which formed Ukrainian paramilitary units that murdered over 100,000 Poles during the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
Entire Polish villages disappeared as Ukrainians massacred everyone to include women and children, who were buried in mass graves. After the war, the Polish regions of Volhynia and Eastern Galicia were formally annexed by Soviet Ukraine after 1.5 million Poles were forcibly deported. Over the next decade, another 1.5 million Poles were deported by Ukraine to ethically cleanse these regions (noted in yellow below).
The West did nothing about this brutality because it occurred within the powerful Soviet Union. However, that union broke up and Ukraine is weak and at odds with Russia. On July 22, 2016, the Parliament of Poland passed a resolution recognizing the massacres of ethnic Poles in Volhynia and Galicia as genocide. Poland is now part of NATO and American troops are based there. Thousands of Poles are still alive who were expelled from these regions. Homes and land were seized from millions of Poles. Ukrainian war criminals remain at large.
This raises several questions. If Poland demands a return of its territory or compensation for Poles, will powerful NATO support its demand? Will sanctions be imposed against Ukraine for this genocide and illegal seizure of Polish territory?
Informed people know these issues will never be addressed because NATO does not exist to protect member states, but is a proxy arm of America’s neocon empire trying to conquer the world. However, as Poland’s military grows stronger and Ukraine struggles, this issue may arise, and crafty Russia may support a return of Poland’s, Slovakia’s, and Romania’s seized territories! In fact, the UN recognizes Russia as the successor to the Soviet Union in regards to old international agreements. The Russia could announce that it was returning lands seized!
I doubt that is true. It really took the Germans a while to recover. In the early 1960s, folks in Ohio were driving big full sized Chevies and Fords. In the early ’60s a W. German is lucky if he can afford a VW Beetle . Not everyone can – for 55 million people they sell around 1 million cars a year. In the US they sell 6 million cars to 180 million people or almost twice as many per capita and again cars that are literally twice as big. Chevy alone sells more cars than the entire auto production of Germany.
But overall yes the W. Germans made a miraculous economic recovery due in part to their strong work ethic.
Consider, however, that those VW's were more suitable for German roads than big American cars would have been, and Germany had/has urban transit and intercity rail systems orders of magnitude better than anything in the US.
Blinken: US ‘deeply concerned’ by Polish bill blocking Holocaust victims from reclaiming property
Polish parliament earlier in the day barring Holocaust survivors and their descendants from reclaiming property seized by the country’s communist regime.
https://www.jns.org/blinken-blasts-polish-law-blocking-holocaust-victims-from-reclaiming-property/
But overall yes the W. Germans made a miraculous economic recovery due in part to their strong work ethic.Replies: @prosa123
In the early 1960s, folks in Ohio were driving big full sized Chevies and Fords. In the early ’60s a W. German is lucky if he can afford a VW Beetle . Not everyone can – for 55 million people they sell around 1 million cars a year. In the US they sell 6 million cars to 180 million people or almost twice as many per capita and again cars that are literally twice as big.
Consider, however, that those VW’s were more suitable for German roads than big American cars would have been, and Germany had/has urban transit and intercity rail systems orders of magnitude better than anything in the US.
Well, it just happened (against all military logic). And it was a criminal slaughter and total destruction of Ukrainian forces.
Not a peep from the propaganda press.
The EU's main problem is that it is led by virtue signalling globalist idiots. There is only so much stupidity that people can bear before they demand change. This winter is going to be rough for the EU and as Germany's stock falls, the Eastern countries are going to feel less deferential.Replies: @Jack D
Seriously, can you provide us with facts and figures about the “total destruction of Ukrainian forces”? Casualty counts? Satellite photos? War maps? What are your sources? The Russian Defense Ministry announced that a Ukrainian offensive had been launched, but it insisted it had failed, with its forces inflicting heavy Ukrainian casualties. “Enemy’s offensive attempt failed miserably,” it said. Why would you accept this at face value when they have lied 1,000 times about 1,000 different things? Even Putin doesn’t believe the Russian Defense Ministry anymore.
If the Western press is a propaganda press, what is the Russian press and why should we believe their propaganda instead of Western propaganda?
(Reg: is “suitcases” right?)
Suit, not suitcases.
The whole point of the EU, despite the mealy mouthed duplicitous game most of Europe's politicians talk, is the create a federal Europe, that is a 'United States of Europe' modelled on the United States of America.
The idea is that all differences of nationality merge into a common 'European' identity, and past disputes and emnities between the former nations dissolve away, and a 'new' Europe forges ahead ......Replies: @kaganovitch
The idea is that all differences of nationality merge into a ‘European’ identity, and past disputes and emnities between the former nations dissolve away, and a ‘new’ Europe forges ahead ……
And Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy” as their anthem
Jack, I don’t disagree with your parsing of powers but not sure the point.
My point is simply that the euro was a highly political project that is economically destructive–and ends up being politically destructive as well.
— European countries are still very much separate nations with economies not necessarily in sync, nor with easy flow of people for a common monetary policy.
— European counties are separate political entities, so moving monetary policy off and giving it to German bankers takes sovereignty and responsibly away from national peoples and in the process introduces cross-national hostility and grievance–ex. Greece and Germany–into this issue.
The Germans actually do a better job than many/most nations would do. Just like parents could often do a better job making a whole hosts of decisions than their children. But there is no long term substitute for “growing up” and being responsible for yourself. Having someone else dictate to you and then blaming them is not healthy for either party.
Indeed.
And I still have a scar on my left index finger from working in a college cafeteria in the 1980s to pay for my room and board. I was cutting a bunch of beef roasts, and I put that finger just a little too far underneath one. Got some nice stitches at the campus clinic.
I want reparations.
(And I worked for my useless degree, instead of borrowing taxpayer-guaranteed money.)
This has more to do with foreign policy than domestic policy. The US/UK have lots of influence on Polish foreign policy and are using this to put pressure on Germany for dragging its feet on the opposition to Russia.
And I still have a scar on my left index finger from working in a college cafeteria in the 1980s to pay for my room and board. I was cutting a bunch of beef roasts, and I put that finger just a little too far underneath one. Got some nice stitches at the campus clinic.
I want reparations.
(And I worked for my useless degree, instead of borrowing taxpayer-guaranteed money.)Replies: @Rob McX, @SafeNow
Don’t start, or whoever got your blood on their beef will want reparations too.
Is Poland also going to sue Russia for reparations?
Greece tried the same gig with Germany a few years ago. Maybe Germans would have been more amenable at the time if the Greeks had simultaneously made similar demands on Turkey.
Cheap Polish behavior. This play is getting old quick now, and the ulterior motives are all too plainly visible.
And that doesn’t even address the question of whether the alleged historical “truths” on which these demands rest withstand scrutiny.
--excuse me? Partitioning Poland in cooperation with Nazi Germany? Katyn? 45 years of colonial occupation and negative elite selection? Poland wants to be left alone. They don't want to think about Russia. They are sick and tired of that retarded Mongol empire. The largest country in the world, with a declining population and male life expectancy of 67 years, decides to invade its neighbor and throws away tens of thousands of soldiers, with the most primitive and basic first aid kits for the wounded. Gulags or a rainbow flag? If it has to be either / or, 90% of Poles will choose option #2, at least it's a slower path to decline.
Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire "the greatest tragedy of the 20th century." What more needs to be said? It was "the evil empire" indeed, as Reagan famously said at the UN, and there are statues of Reagan in both Warsaw and Budapest.
Who needs money? Debt to GDP figures:
Greece: 193%
Italy 151%
EU: 88%
Germany: 69%
Poland: 54%
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp?continent=europe
"Isn’t Poland also selective about its role in the EU too? Cashing checks from Brussels is fine, but obeying EU diktats, not so much."
--the point is that today's EU is not the EU that Poland signed up for. And the checks increasingly are for what the EU thinks is important, not for what Poland needs. Money for highways, for example, is going to zero.
"Wouldn’t exporters favor a weaker currency than the euro?"
--The euro is much weaker than the old deutschmark used to be, which favors Germany, but stronger than the old lira or drachma, which hurts Italy and Greece.
"If Poland is no S. Korea economically, then Greece is not even N. Korea."
--true! But Central Europe has been doing so well that now Czechia is richer than Spain (per capita PPP) and Poland has surpassed Portugal.Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
This is true in most statements.
The real problem with the EU is not that it is a bad idea (it is great). The problem is Eurocrats trying to transform it into a state like other almost-nation states- which, of course, is impossible, because all peoples in the EU are historical nations with deep roots & identities.
Pope Woytila was right when he insisted that the EU should explicitly mention its Christian roots. It should not be just some kind of trade agreement; it should be something like an economically unified civilization.
But then, the French were vigorously opposed. They “proposed” that, then, European roots in Antiquity should be mentioned. The Pope was puzzled: of course, he said, it goes without saying, but if you insist, mention it along with Christianity. But the “secular bunch” then retreated that it wouldn’t be necessary etc. etc.
So they subverted any effort to explicitly mention Christian civilization (of course that they didn’t care for ancient Greece & Rome).
Globohomo is certainly != “high trust” or “building high trust”. Rather it is the enemy of “high-trust”.
Globohomo has worked insidiously and assiduously to destroy the particularly high-trust one-peopleish nations of the West and degrade them into low-trust multi-ethnic blobs. And while the real passion for destruction is white nations, globohomo aims the same “must have immigration!” propaganda at Japan, which would quickly destroy its unique non-Western very Japanese high-trust culture.
High trust is formed by having a common people with common norms and values. Period. People who understand each other and are “on the same team” winning or losing together–and sharing “posterity”–trust each other. People from different tribes, who win or lose separately do not.
J Ross posted the London underground video yesterday. Blacks blobs going all black on some queers with no intervention–because London no longer has “high trust”, because London no longer has a common people, common culture, common norms, or civilized norms at all!
https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-broadway-isnt-diverse-enough-i-mean-its-too-white-i-_don/#comment-5521542
That’s your globohomo.
Around 1986 Jesse Jackson spoke in (I think) Trafalgar Square, London, to a huge crowd of white liberal types including me (although by then I'd learned a few things), but also a lot of Black Nationalist types. I remember seeing them giving a hard time verbally to various young women.
I remember that! World War III followed right after Germany paid a few hundred billion to Jews who said they “survived the holocaust.”
“Some 6 million of Poland’s citizens, including 3 million Jews, were killed in the war.”
Who do you think is really behind Poland’s demand for $1.3 trillion dollars reparations from Germany?
I don’t claim to understand Russia or Putin. (And I certainly don’t claim to understand this war–and based on the comments I’ve seen, neither does anyone else around here.)
But my 50,000 foot take is more like Putin is larping as the Tsar. Not a Russian nationalist, but a Russian imperialist.
I realize there are legit–but very small scale for Russia–“people not their desired nation” issues in Ukraine. (Akin to Northern Ireland–a situation I understand a bit better.) But the real tell–as I’ve said before–is Chechnya. Putin fought a brutal war and leveled Grozny to keep the Chechens *in* Russia. Nationalist? LOL.
I’m an American nationalist, and if I was dictator in charge, I would not be invading Canada or Mexico, I would be kicking 100+ million odd people *out* of the United States. (Dumping their territory if that was required.)
Imperialist: We should have these folks, we should add those folks …
Nationalist: No thanks.
But in the modern Russian context, "Russian World" is bigger than just Russia - it's a whole civilization which stands in opposition to Glob0-Homo World/America. Russian culture and civilization is so great and wonderful that it is not reserved just for people who live within the current borders of Russia. People anywhere, especially but not only Russian speakers and people who once lived within the borders of the USSR, could benefit by becoming part of Russian World (again) and rejecting Globo-Homo World. If the government of various bordering countries wants to join Globo-Homo World contrary to the best interest of its citizens (especially its Russian speaking citizens) it is the duty of Russia to help out those poor citizens.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Romanian
When is Russia, America, England and International Jewry going to pay reparations to Germans??? MILLIONS of Germans BRUTALLY murdered during and after the war by "the good guys." Poles brutally beat, murdered, and raped their share of displaced Germans as well. How many German POW suffered in the Rhine Meadow Camps?? How many had confessions beat out of them, their testicles crushed???
When is International Jewry going to pay Ukrainians for their prominent role in the Holodomor.Replies: @dearieme, @AnotherDad, @Jack D
Germans probably suffered more than anyone else during WWII.
They voted for the mad bastard.
Here a NY Times piece on it from Feb '86:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/19/business/advertising-greece-campaign-is-set.html
And here's a Times piece seven months later:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/28/world/greece-is-reconsidering-the-price-of-tourism.htmlReplies: @Barnard, @Reg Cæsar
They should have included Jimmy the Greek. How did they exclude him?
Globohomo has worked insidiously and assiduously to destroy the particularly high-trust one-peopleish nations of the West and degrade them into low-trust multi-ethnic blobs. And while the real passion for destruction is white nations, globohomo aims the same "must have immigration!" propaganda at Japan, which would quickly destroy its unique non-Western very Japanese high-trust culture.
High trust is formed by having a common people with common norms and values. Period. People who understand each other and are "on the same team" winning or losing together--and sharing "posterity"--trust each other. People from different tribes, who win or lose separately do not.
J Ross posted the London underground video yesterday. Blacks blobs going all black on some queers with no intervention--because London no longer has "high trust", because London no longer has a common people, common culture, common norms, or civilized norms at all!
https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-broadway-isnt-diverse-enough-i-mean-its-too-white-i-_don/#comment-5521542
That's your globohomo.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
People don’t intervene because they worry about being stabbed and because they know they could be monstered as racists.
Around 1986 Jesse Jackson spoke in (I think) Trafalgar Square, London, to a huge crowd of white liberal types including me (although by then I’d learned a few things), but also a lot of Black Nationalist types. I remember seeing them giving a hard time verbally to various young women.
Or just have Poland declare war on Germany to remove the clear Nazi element within that society, similar to Putin’s justification for starting war against Ukraine.
They voted for the mad bastard.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
Oh, there’s a load of poop in your pants, dearie.
At what point is this a Federally sanctioned foreign invasion, and when we satisfy the conditions required to define it as such, who are we supposed to shoot in the head to undermine this activity?
https://twitter.com/VenturaReport/status/1565353722007343107?s=20&t=HSTZeR0dIEPgtKd0yqu8FgReplies: @Corvinus
“At what point is this a Federally sanctioned foreign invasion, and when we satisfy the conditions required to define it as such, who are we supposed to shoot in the head to undermine this activity?“
Whoever you want. It’s open season. But that means you have to be front and center. Why don’t you go ahead and show us how it’s done? Make sure to have video proof.
And I still have a scar on my left index finger from working in a college cafeteria in the 1980s to pay for my room and board. I was cutting a bunch of beef roasts, and I put that finger just a little too far underneath one. Got some nice stitches at the campus clinic.
I want reparations.
(And I worked for my useless degree, instead of borrowing taxpayer-guaranteed money.)Replies: @Rob McX, @SafeNow
I can’t say we are blood brothers Buzz, but we are brothers, because I had my arms in the greasy pot sink at the college cafeteria to pay for my board. Tennessee Williams could not come up with a better metaphor than your roast-beef scar. I could have used that pot-sink time to do other things. But a plus-side is that I met a lot of good guys on the dish crew; Biden would look down his nose at them.
Being a former Islamic ruled country really leaves a mark in terms of work ethic and morals. Greeks to this day have the same relationship with their (formerly Turkish) government as moonshiners had with the US Federal government - the goal is to hide all your income from the revenuers. Various socialist governments set the retirement age at like age 50 for certain occupations.
Back in the day when they had the drachma it kinda sorta worked - Greece was a "cheap and cheerful" tourist destination. Maybe the toilets were just the hole in the ground type but dinner was only $5 due to the exchange rate. Yeah the restaurant was just some tables set up outdoors and the menu was that you would go into the kitchen and they would point to your choice of 2 or 3 big pots simmering on the stove - one kind of lamb stew or a different kind of lamb stew but isn't that really kind of charming and folkloric? The bright sunshine and the blue water made up for a lot of sins,
especially if you were from the cold gray north. Now that everything is in Euros, Greece is as expensive as Denmark but without Danish efficiency (thank God the EU can't take the sun away).
Greece shoulda ditched the Euro (Poland still has the zloty) but the EU has poured in massive amounts of money to keep them afloat. Free money - what's not to like for a corrupt 3rd worldish kind of place? The EU has its reasons - Greece is full of late model German cars - Mercedes for the rich, VWs for the not so rich. If it wasn't for all that EU money they would be riding around on donkeys and mopeds.Replies: @njguy73, @Reg Cæsar, @epebble
What happened to their flag of convenience? Lost to Liberia, Panama, and Norway? I mean, Greeks used to build the ships they licensed.Remember this guy?
Not to mention…
Here a NY Times piece on it from Feb '86:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/19/business/advertising-greece-campaign-is-set.html
And here's a Times piece seven months later:
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/28/world/greece-is-reconsidering-the-price-of-tourism.htmlReplies: @Barnard, @Reg Cæsar
I read his book, and liked his praise for Volkswagen’s “Think Small” campaign: they managed to sell a Nazi car in a Jewish town.
1) Stop murdering German expatriates, and return German territory stolen after WW I.
2) Ignore all reasonable German proposals and, after the British useless guarantee to Poland, become downright bellicose towards Germany. The Poles also would have had to ignore Roosevelt's admonition not to negotiate with Germany!
Most of us know the choice Poland made: Believe the useless British guarantee.
I submit that, had Poland chosen to hitch its wagon, as it were, to Germany's industrial locomotive in the late 1930's, we'd have a much different, better?, world today.
As to Poland's demand for blackm ahem "reparations", I'd say yeah, let's talk about that. First you compensate the families and inheritors of the 35,000 German expatriates you murdered, and all the property you stole from them. Let's see, 10,000,000 Euros per murder x 35,000 = 35 billion Euros.
Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.
Now then, you, Poland, let us have your claims, and justification plus PROOF, thereof.Replies: @Jack D, @Pixo, @John Johnson
Poland was murdering German expats in the same way as Ukraine was murdering Russians. Only in the mind of a dictator looking for phony pretexts to invade.
When is Russia, America, England and International Jewry going to pay reparations to Germans??? MILLIONS of Germans BRUTALLY murdered during and after the war by "the good guys." Poles brutally beat, murdered, and raped their share of displaced Germans as well. How many German POW suffered in the Rhine Meadow Camps?? How many had confessions beat out of them, their testicles crushed???
When is International Jewry going to pay Ukrainians for their prominent role in the Holodomor.Replies: @dearieme, @AnotherDad, @Jack D
LOL. No. Germany suffered terribly and probably lost something like 7-10% of its pre-war population.
But Poland and the near Soviet Union–Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltics–where much worse. Even regular old Russia, Russia was worse.
Also comparable, Yugoslavia, Hungry, Greece, Vietnam (French Indochina). And really bad but a lesser % of population–Indonesia (Dutch East Indies) and Philippines.
Germany was terrible, but a “less bad” place to be than on its “Eastern Front”.
~~~
The lessons here are obvious:
— War is bad.
— Imperialism is bad.
— The world is best off–and way, way more peaceful–with diverse peoples sorted into their correct one-peopleish nations with good, agreed-upon borders, managing their own affairs.
Simple lessons. Even I can figure this out. Unfortunately, we have “elites” who are very hostile to these simple, clear lessons and really do not want a better world.
Honestly, fuck you and your scare quotes. My father lost his parents and both of his sisters and his brother and 90% of his friends and everything he owned and six years of his life and much of his health and was one finger point away from going up the chimney at Auschwitz and for that he got like $300 a month, not hundreds of billions. Fuck you.
Not all those 3 million had any property.
The Jewish property was confiscated by Germany during the war. Then confiscated after the war by Russia which occupied Poland and took what it wanted.
Therefore, Zionist organizations should demand Russia compensate descendants of Polish Jews for the property Russia acquired in 1945 and used until 1990.
But my 50,000 foot take is more like Putin is larping as the Tsar. Not a Russian nationalist, but a Russian imperialist.
I realize there are legit--but very small scale for Russia--"people not their desired nation" issues in Ukraine. (Akin to Northern Ireland--a situation I understand a bit better.) But the real tell--as I've said before--is Chechnya. Putin fought a brutal war and leveled Grozny to keep the Chechens *in* Russia. Nationalist? LOL.
I'm an American nationalist, and if I was dictator in charge, I would not be invading Canada or Mexico, I would be kicking 100+ million odd people *out* of the United States. (Dumping their territory if that was required.)
Imperialist: We should have these folks, we should add those folks ...
Nationalist: No thanks.Replies: @Jack D
Maybe in the European context, “nationalist” and “imperialist” is not the same thing. The Danes don’t want everyone in Europe to be Danish.
But in the modern Russian context, “Russian World” is bigger than just Russia – it’s a whole civilization which stands in opposition to Glob0-Homo World/America. Russian culture and civilization is so great and wonderful that it is not reserved just for people who live within the current borders of Russia. People anywhere, especially but not only Russian speakers and people who once lived within the borders of the USSR, could benefit by becoming part of Russian World (again) and rejecting Globo-Homo World. If the government of various bordering countries wants to join Globo-Homo World contrary to the best interest of its citizens (especially its Russian speaking citizens) it is the duty of Russia to help out those poor citizens.
I'm not saying
a) nationalism itself never causes problems; it obviously does where in border regions are mixed and some might want this and some that
b) people with strong nationalist credentials haven't gone off on their imperial adventures; obvious they have Romans, Chinese ... Ottomans, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English, French, Russians, Americans, Germans, Italians, Japanese ...
What I'm saying is
a) nationalism and imperialism are distinct ideologies/behaviors and
b) it is mostly imperialism that causes problems.
As to Russia/Putin. A legit Russian nationalist could well think Crimea belongs to Russia and that ethnic Russians in Ukraine should be in Russia. Those would be the kind of issues where--because people are not properly sorted--nationalism (and aggressive attitudes) can lead to conflict.
A nationalist, but non-imperialist Hitler would have had some of those issues--and would have generated conflict. But it would not have led to the War--i.e. the big one. It was his imperialism that did that. Note that Europe became notable more peaceful after the War--mostly because of nukes and the US Army, but also because people were more properly sorted. Where they weren't quite--Northern Ireland, the Balkans--is where the big troubles popped up.
But as I said Chechnya's the "tell". Chechens are not Russians, and there's nothing positive about having them in Russia. They are negative for Russians. (And from what I've heard that's a general Russian opinion.) So, insisting that Chechnya stay in Russia is a "we are a big swinging dick" imperialist move. Not a nationalist one.
~~~
And again, if there's a lesson from 20th century history it is not "death to nationalists!" or "diversity is our greatest strength", "immigration, immigration, must have immigration!"--the officially approved Jewish lessons. That's just nonsense and doesn't reduce conflict at all, it grows contention and conflict.
The moral is something like "People do best in one-peopleish nations, behind agreed upon borders. This reduces conflict internally and externally and allows people to prosper and people of various nations to trade and have friendly relations with their neighbors."
Or "The ideology that can be universal and allow a peaceful world is nationalism that respects borders and other people's nationalisms."
Or ... "Good fences make good neighbors."Replies: @Twinkie, @Jack D
Their hatred for Russia, who killed a lot of Poles but left the country racially intact, blinds them to the much greater threat of the EU, which will make Poland a third world slum.
Churchill on the other bit of the Munich Agreement in 1938:Replies: @Alden
Well, Churchill, the pompous pontificator, war monger Zionist agent consider the source. I applaud the 1920s triumph of Poland over the soviet Russians who invaded and tried to seize Polish eastern territory. At least a few hundred thousands people were in Poland not the Soviet Union and not subject to the atrocities the Soviets inflicted in soviet territory.
It’s not just the dreaded SOR south of Rome, It’s all the way up to the northern border with train tickets. Rent a car if you plan to move around.,Or pick one town and stay in it for a couple weeks. Nicer than rushing around. And avoid the endless demands for more money because “ your ticket is not good for this seat”. Plus avoid the gauntlet of African Arab robbers and rapists in and around the train stations..
When is Russia, America, England and International Jewry going to pay reparations to Germans??? MILLIONS of Germans BRUTALLY murdered during and after the war by "the good guys." Poles brutally beat, murdered, and raped their share of displaced Germans as well. How many German POW suffered in the Rhine Meadow Camps?? How many had confessions beat out of them, their testicles crushed???
When is International Jewry going to pay Ukrainians for their prominent role in the Holodomor.Replies: @dearieme, @AnotherDad, @Jack D
Let’s say you and your three brothers rob a bank. Afterward, there is a shoot out with the cops. You and your brothers kill two cops but your three brothers all die in the shootout. Do the police owe you compensation because you suffered more?
The idea that “International Jewry” is somehow responsible for the Holodomor rather than Soviet Communists of all nationalities shows where your head is at. Why aren’t Georgians responsible? Stalin was Georgian. Who the hell talks anymore about “International Jewry”? Get back into your hole where you belong.
Hello!
I was glad to have a way to pay for things, and as you said there were some good guys there. Saturday morning was the most “interesting,” because I had to start at 6 AM cracking cases of eggs into buckets, which I then scrambled and cooked. I learned how to crack them in both hands simultaneously without getting any shells in. That’s one of the things I learned in college, LOL.
It’s good to hear from you! Glad you’re here!
@deariemie #99
“They voted for the mad bastard. ”
Actually, no. At no point before they assumed power – and control of the elections – did the National Socialists ever get a majority of the votes in a national election. Hitler was *appointed* chancellor under von Hindenburg.
Half of Poland sits on land that was stolen from Germany. That is more then enough compensation. Craziness like this makes me realize just how bad an ally Poles are. Chamberlain’s pledge to Poland in 1939 was such a colossal mistake. Poles are real lightning rods for trouble.
1) Stop murdering German expatriates, and return German territory stolen after WW I.
2) Ignore all reasonable German proposals and, after the British useless guarantee to Poland, become downright bellicose towards Germany. The Poles also would have had to ignore Roosevelt's admonition not to negotiate with Germany!
Most of us know the choice Poland made: Believe the useless British guarantee.
I submit that, had Poland chosen to hitch its wagon, as it were, to Germany's industrial locomotive in the late 1930's, we'd have a much different, better?, world today.
As to Poland's demand for blackm ahem "reparations", I'd say yeah, let's talk about that. First you compensate the families and inheritors of the 35,000 German expatriates you murdered, and all the property you stole from them. Let's see, 10,000,000 Euros per murder x 35,000 = 35 billion Euros.
Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.
Now then, you, Poland, let us have your claims, and justification plus PROOF, thereof.Replies: @Jack D, @Pixo, @John Johnson
“ Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.”
Conquered, not stolen, in wars that Germans sought the conquest and expulsion of Slavic lands, but failed on the field of battle.
“Ignore all reasonable German proposals”
The facial reasonableness of Hitler’s proposals had no value because Hitler did not respect treaties signed by sovereign governments of Germany. First he violated repeatedly the Treaty of Versailles, then he violated the Munich agreement by invading Czechoslovakia.
It almost seems that redrawing borders along ethnic lines was not just a German fad in those days.Replies: @International Jew
This moronic anti-Polish stuff here is beyond belief. What a bunch of foul, pathetic nonsense.
For the record, I don't blame Hitler for trashing Versailles, a treaty signed under duress blaming Germany for the Great War which it was hardly alone in starting, but was a "group project" of laughably bad decision making by Europe's "Great Powers".
But the Munich agreement was Hitler's agreement. And he got it claiming it was "the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe" ... and then five months later walked in and grabbed up the Czech rump--and stole the gold in its central bank.
If Britain and France had been ready, willing and able to invade right then a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided.
That any other leader should take Hitler as a serious negotiating partner after that is laughable.Replies: @Twinkie, @Chebyshev
But in the modern Russian context, "Russian World" is bigger than just Russia - it's a whole civilization which stands in opposition to Glob0-Homo World/America. Russian culture and civilization is so great and wonderful that it is not reserved just for people who live within the current borders of Russia. People anywhere, especially but not only Russian speakers and people who once lived within the borders of the USSR, could benefit by becoming part of Russian World (again) and rejecting Globo-Homo World. If the government of various bordering countries wants to join Globo-Homo World contrary to the best interest of its citizens (especially its Russian speaking citizens) it is the duty of Russia to help out those poor citizens.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Romanian
Jack, you’ve run me at this a few times, and while I’m aware of this Russian attitude–and indeed I think it has a great deal to do with what’s going on. But it simply doesn’t counter my point.
I’m not saying
a) nationalism itself never causes problems; it obviously does where in border regions are mixed and some might want this and some that
b) people with strong nationalist credentials haven’t gone off on their imperial adventures; obvious they have Romans, Chinese … Ottomans, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English, French, Russians, Americans, Germans, Italians, Japanese …
What I’m saying is
a) nationalism and imperialism are distinct ideologies/behaviors and
b) it is mostly imperialism that causes problems.
As to Russia/Putin. A legit Russian nationalist could well think Crimea belongs to Russia and that ethnic Russians in Ukraine should be in Russia. Those would be the kind of issues where–because people are not properly sorted–nationalism (and aggressive attitudes) can lead to conflict.
A nationalist, but non-imperialist Hitler would have had some of those issues–and would have generated conflict. But it would not have led to the War–i.e. the big one. It was his imperialism that did that. Note that Europe became notable more peaceful after the War–mostly because of nukes and the US Army, but also because people were more properly sorted. Where they weren’t quite–Northern Ireland, the Balkans–is where the big troubles popped up.
But as I said Chechnya’s the “tell”. Chechens are not Russians, and there’s nothing positive about having them in Russia. They are negative for Russians. (And from what I’ve heard that’s a general Russian opinion.) So, insisting that Chechnya stay in Russia is a “we are a big swinging dick” imperialist move. Not a nationalist one.
~~~
And again, if there’s a lesson from 20th century history it is not “death to nationalists!” or “diversity is our greatest strength”, “immigration, immigration, must have immigration!”–the officially approved Jewish lessons. That’s just nonsense and doesn’t reduce conflict at all, it grows contention and conflict.
The moral is something like “People do best in one-peopleish nations, behind agreed upon borders. This reduces conflict internally and externally and allows people to prosper and people of various nations to trade and have friendly relations with their neighbors.”
Or “The ideology that can be universal and allow a peaceful world is nationalism that respects borders and other people’s nationalisms.”
Or … “Good fences make good neighbors.”
This is a tough row to hoe because the Nationalist brand has already been spoiled by those who came before. I advise starting over with a new brand name.
TBH, except in the case of countries that are too small and weak to have imperialist ambitions, it's really hard to say where nationalism ends and imperialism begins - one follows from the other or at least it always has. If you think that being part of English speaking or Russian speaking or Chinese speaking culture (or French or German, etc.) is a great thing and that you are part of a nation that has a major historical role to play, you want your nation's culture (and maybe even its borders) to spread as far as possible. Even places that today we think of as being (relatively) small ethnostates - the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Poland, etc. once had their own imperial ambitions. At the very least, even tiny nationalist states like Israel want to have a little breathing room around their borders for safety if nothing else.
If today in Europe we have some small and peaceful ethnostates like Slovakia and Slovenia, these exist only because they are part of a larger (one might say imperial) security framework. As Twinkie points out, if these states are ethnically "pure" today it was only achieved with a lot of (imperialist) violence first.
Also, if you scratch below the surface a bit, there are still simmering ethnic tensions almost everywhere - Spain to outsiders may be a single ethnostate, united for the last 500 years but once you zoom in, there are Catalans, Basques, etc. who reject the larger ethnostate and want their own little ethnostates. We think of Italy as being one country but it is a recent creation and its national language is just one standardized dialect among the dozens that were (in many cases still are) spoken and if you ask people what they are, they might answer Sicilian or Sardinian and not Italian. Nationality is really fractal - as you zoom in, the same patterns repeat themselves at smaller and smaller scale. In Siena, the city is divided into 17 contrade (neighborhoods) and people are loyal to their contrada which has its own flag and symbols:
https://i2.wp.com/dreamdiscoveritalia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/map-of-contrade.png?w=562&ssl=1
While this looks like the map of Australia, the whole city of Siena is only 3 miles across and each contrada is only a few acres, but yet they are perfectly capable of having their own "nationalism" in relation to which any broader identity is "imperialist" - one man's nationalism is another man's imperialism.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Those innocent Polish lambs, you are aware that they also were a party to the Munich agreement, right, and that they made sure they too got their piece of Polish-settled flesh from Czechoslovakia?
It almost seems that redrawing borders along ethnic lines was not just a German fad in those days.
Thanks Pixo.
This moronic anti-Polish stuff here is beyond belief. What a bunch of foul, pathetic nonsense.
For the record, I don’t blame Hitler for trashing Versailles, a treaty signed under duress blaming Germany for the Great War which it was hardly alone in starting, but was a “group project” of laughably bad decision making by Europe’s “Great Powers”.
But the Munich agreement was Hitler’s agreement. And he got it claiming it was “the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe” … and then five months later walked in and grabbed up the Czech rump–and stole the gold in its central bank.
If Britain and France had been ready, willing and able to invade right then a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided.
That any other leader should take Hitler as a serious negotiating partner after that is laughable.
If Britain and France had shown more backbone in the aftermath of the destruction of Czechoslovakia, the conservative German generals who opposed Hitler's aggressive and risky foreign policy would have been strengthened greatly and will likely have changed history (then again, that'd have happened after the reoccupation of Rhineland too when the German generals were ready to quickly retreat across the river if the Allies showed an inkling of opposing it). But how would it have changed is difficult to assess.
In any case, Hitler was like a drunk gambler on a winning roll. He kept throwing the dice even though the chance that he would keep getting lucky diminished greatly with each throw.Replies: @Cking
"Czechoslovakia was never a “real country,” but actually a mini-empire, in which the Czechs plurality used various dishonest means to maintain total control over very large minorities of highly-discontented Germans, Slovaks, and other groups. After Hitler freed the Germans for Germany, the Slovaks and the others also escaped Czech rule and the “empire” fell apart, while Poland and Hungary grabbed back bits that the Czechs had stolen after WWI. The Czechs had previously been ruled by Germans for something like 1000 years, and the new Czech government naturally turned to Germany to protect them against their ravenous neighbors, though the details are disputed. According to all the evidence I’ve seen, Heydrich was quite popular among the Czechs, partly because he extended to them the social welfare benefits that Germans had long enjoyed under Hitler."Replies: @Cking
Being a former Islamic ruled country really leaves a mark in terms of work ethic and morals. Greeks to this day have the same relationship with their (formerly Turkish) government as moonshiners had with the US Federal government - the goal is to hide all your income from the revenuers. Various socialist governments set the retirement age at like age 50 for certain occupations.
Back in the day when they had the drachma it kinda sorta worked - Greece was a "cheap and cheerful" tourist destination. Maybe the toilets were just the hole in the ground type but dinner was only $5 due to the exchange rate. Yeah the restaurant was just some tables set up outdoors and the menu was that you would go into the kitchen and they would point to your choice of 2 or 3 big pots simmering on the stove - one kind of lamb stew or a different kind of lamb stew but isn't that really kind of charming and folkloric? The bright sunshine and the blue water made up for a lot of sins,
especially if you were from the cold gray north. Now that everything is in Euros, Greece is as expensive as Denmark but without Danish efficiency (thank God the EU can't take the sun away).
Greece shoulda ditched the Euro (Poland still has the zloty) but the EU has poured in massive amounts of money to keep them afloat. Free money - what's not to like for a corrupt 3rd worldish kind of place? The EU has its reasons - Greece is full of late model German cars - Mercedes for the rich, VWs for the not so rich. If it wasn't for all that EU money they would be riding around on donkeys and mopeds.Replies: @njguy73, @Reg Cæsar, @epebble
it doesn’t have anything else
A few years back I went to a Glendi (Open House/Festival) at a local Greek Orthodox Church. A lady was showing us around the beautiful vestments worn by the Orthodox clergy. She casually commented that it is made of Italian fabric and is made on German made machinery. We all chuckled that Orthodox religious attire is made with Catholic cloth on Protestant machines.
Are White Americans owed reparations by groups and individuals who have facilitated or participated in the immigration invasion of the homeland?
What could go wrong?Replies: @Peter Lund
Oh no, Lemberg is Austrian.
Germany pays Poland, Poland pays Israel. Israel pays…
Germany pays Israel. Israel pays…
America pays Israel. Israel pays…
The UK can expect a commensurately larger bill from its ex-colonies.
This moronic anti-Polish stuff here is beyond belief. What a bunch of foul, pathetic nonsense.
For the record, I don't blame Hitler for trashing Versailles, a treaty signed under duress blaming Germany for the Great War which it was hardly alone in starting, but was a "group project" of laughably bad decision making by Europe's "Great Powers".
But the Munich agreement was Hitler's agreement. And he got it claiming it was "the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe" ... and then five months later walked in and grabbed up the Czech rump--and stole the gold in its central bank.
If Britain and France had been ready, willing and able to invade right then a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided.
That any other leader should take Hitler as a serious negotiating partner after that is laughable.Replies: @Twinkie, @Chebyshev
Agree!
If Britain and France had shown more backbone in the aftermath of the destruction of Czechoslovakia, the conservative German generals who opposed Hitler’s aggressive and risky foreign policy would have been strengthened greatly and will likely have changed history (then again, that’d have happened after the reoccupation of Rhineland too when the German generals were ready to quickly retreat across the river if the Allies showed an inkling of opposing it). But how would it have changed is difficult to assess.
In any case, Hitler was like a drunk gambler on a winning roll. He kept throwing the dice even though the chance that he would keep getting lucky diminished greatly with each throw.
I'm not saying
a) nationalism itself never causes problems; it obviously does where in border regions are mixed and some might want this and some that
b) people with strong nationalist credentials haven't gone off on their imperial adventures; obvious they have Romans, Chinese ... Ottomans, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English, French, Russians, Americans, Germans, Italians, Japanese ...
What I'm saying is
a) nationalism and imperialism are distinct ideologies/behaviors and
b) it is mostly imperialism that causes problems.
As to Russia/Putin. A legit Russian nationalist could well think Crimea belongs to Russia and that ethnic Russians in Ukraine should be in Russia. Those would be the kind of issues where--because people are not properly sorted--nationalism (and aggressive attitudes) can lead to conflict.
A nationalist, but non-imperialist Hitler would have had some of those issues--and would have generated conflict. But it would not have led to the War--i.e. the big one. It was his imperialism that did that. Note that Europe became notable more peaceful after the War--mostly because of nukes and the US Army, but also because people were more properly sorted. Where they weren't quite--Northern Ireland, the Balkans--is where the big troubles popped up.
But as I said Chechnya's the "tell". Chechens are not Russians, and there's nothing positive about having them in Russia. They are negative for Russians. (And from what I've heard that's a general Russian opinion.) So, insisting that Chechnya stay in Russia is a "we are a big swinging dick" imperialist move. Not a nationalist one.
~~~
And again, if there's a lesson from 20th century history it is not "death to nationalists!" or "diversity is our greatest strength", "immigration, immigration, must have immigration!"--the officially approved Jewish lessons. That's just nonsense and doesn't reduce conflict at all, it grows contention and conflict.
The moral is something like "People do best in one-peopleish nations, behind agreed upon borders. This reduces conflict internally and externally and allows people to prosper and people of various nations to trade and have friendly relations with their neighbors."
Or "The ideology that can be universal and allow a peaceful world is nationalism that respects borders and other people's nationalisms."
Or ... "Good fences make good neighbors."Replies: @Twinkie, @Jack D
Well, that kind of “sorting” is a result of a distinctly unpeaceful process with enormous bloodshed.
As another examples, the Treaties of Westphalia were a pretty good sorting of this type, but resulted from thirty years of devastation of Central Europe. Was the sorting worth the rivers of blood required to create it? I don’t think one can say either way.
Maybe they should fix ’em? A bit of spackle, a lick of paint? It’s been 80 years, and they still haven’t patched up the holes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca6sBaNsluoReplies: @Jack D
Yeah, you can survive a holocaust but quotation marks are a bridge too far. Spare us the tired and trite recitation of your family history–no one knows if you made it up and frankly no one cares.
Using your numbers, though, the aggregate number appears to be over a trillion dollars you and your kind have extracted from Germany. Risible that you pretend it should pertain to just one person. Greedy too.
Anyway even that pales in comparison with what you’ve done to America–the very same country that saved your bacon. Now you’re rich, lazy, and spoiled–just like you all were before the war.
So where’s the damage? You’re sitting prettier than ever. And where’s that WW3 you so confidently predicted? I notice you ignored that part. Let me guess: you and yours are still working on it?
A surprising development in Poland today is that increasingly the Polish
and the Japanese see each other as long lost soulmates. Poland borders Russia
in the west and Japan borders Russia in the east, and both Poland and
Japan experienced a lot of unpleasantness in connection with Russia’s
military expansionism (esp. Poland), so the two countries have that in
common, particularly now in view of the newly resurgent Russia.
But over and above the accidents of geography, it turns out that there are
deeper similarities between the two civilizations. For example, both
countries are very homogenous. There are very few Africans in Poland,
although currently a 14-year-old singer Sara James, daughter of a
Nigerian father and a Polish mother, born and raised in a small town
in Poland, has caught the eye of Simon Cowell, and will be competing
in the final of America’s Got Talent in September. Needless to say,
Sara practically overnight became world famous.
On a deeper level, both Poland and Japan are repelled by the
everyday assertiveness of Westerners, which comes across as egomania.
When visiting Japan, my guide around Tokyo was a lovely educated Japanese
woman who told me she tried living in Britain and the U.S., but it seemed
to her like the Westerners she interacted with all took assertiveness
training classes. She couldn’t tolerate it, and returned to Japan. I have to agree
with her. Back in the ‘60s at least, the last decade when American women were
still actively looking for husbands, assertiveness was not seen as very endearing
in women. All this has changed in the ‘70s, the Me Decade, with Women’s Lib,
when ‘Looking out for No.1’ became the ruling slogan of the era, and was reinforced in
the ‘80s by the advent of the Yuppies.
On what planet? IME (over 20 years in Poland) Poles tend to be _far_ more assertive than run of the mill "westerners". I used to sometimes be in a position to help orient arriving Americans about what to expect in Poland and one of the first things was "stand up for yourself and learn how to be assertive or you'll end up with footprints all over your face".
Poland is the land of castles (and cathedrals) which the Japanese living
in Poland love because it reminds them of their own samurai past. The
Polish to this day in everyday language refer to each other as Pan (lit.
Lord) and Pani (lit. Lady). The distinction between ‘you’ and ‘thou’ is
still socially very strong, and is supported by verbs taking different
grammatical endings. Richard Feynman reportedly was determined
to learn Japanese but quickly lost interest once he found out that
in Japanese there are 5 or 6 levels of politeness which require different
grammatical structures. Similarly, in Polish there are several levels
of politeness depending on whom you’re addressing. All this involves
a great deal of nuance which has largely been lost in English. Americans
spend a lot of time and energy talking about gender and sex, but
you don’t see much discussion of love and friendship, and different
types and levels of each, as you do in Poland, and continental Europe
in general. Aristotle devoted several chapters of his Nicomachean Ethics
to friendship. There is nothing similar in the U.S., and as a result
human relationships in the U.S. seem rather coarse and devoid of nuance.
P.S. Visiting Poland, young women curtsied before me on two different
occasions, and I’m not that imposing. One of them actually had a doctorate.
I said to myself, “I could get used to that.”.
In both Japan and Poland it’s quite acceptable to dwell on sadness, and
its different expressions such as grief, nostalgia, wistfulness, homesickness, etc
Even in public, it’s okay to show a sad face along with different gradations
of melancholy. You don’t have to be cheerful and efficient 100% of the time.
Women don’t have to take antidepressants so they won’t cry in public.
University students can postpone exams if they feel indisposed. Human
weakness is understood and treated with compassion.
Finally, both the Japanese and the Polish have a genetic tendency toward
shyness. That’s probably why in Japan you see vending machines everywhere.
The Japanese often would rather buy a product from a vending machine than
face a human being. Humility is encouraged in both countries. Note that
Iga Światek, Poland’s tennis champion, may be world no.1, but still comes
across as modest, and sometimes even shy. On the positive side, you can’t be
charming without a certain degree of shyness. That’s why it’s so hard for
Americans, raised as they are in an assertive extroverted culture, to be charming.
It explains why American women, even a hundred years ago, long before
women’s lib, were often described by European visitors as mannish.
from … with love,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
The EU is a constant stream of Germany to Poland reparations.
I think you’re forgetting the Bolshevik Invasions that killed 20,000,000 people before Hitler confronted the Soviet Red Army. It’s like the Poles don’t know their own history, And now they’re in Ukraine fighting Russia in exchange for Galicia. https://www.voltairenet.org/article217841.html
I don't think you know Polish history.
It was actually the Poles that fought off the Soviets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
The Nazis never talked about that war nor did they talk about how the Poles once saved Germany from Muslims. All unwanted history.
After taking Poland in a brutal invasion the "anti-Communist" Hitler went and kidnapped Aryan looking Poland children and gave them to German families. What a guy. He actually went in and killed Poles that had killed Communists and took their children if they were Germanic looking. And he claimed the Jews lacked morality????
I really don't care if anyone wants to talk about Jewish influence in Weimar Germany or 1930s Poland. That doesn't justify kidnapping and killing children or killing anti-Communists. The guy was a deranged psychopath. He never needed to invade Poland. It was a gamble that the Allies would back them Poland and he lost the bet. Germany still beat France and yet Hitler decided to gamble again on the Soviet invasion after he stated that he wouldn't make the mistake of war of two fronts. Hitler was a war addict that wasn't going to stop until he was dead. Like Putin he probably knew he had Parkinson's and was going to go down as a warlord and never cared the whole time about Communism. If Communism didn't exist he would have campaigned on some other pretense.Replies: @Cking
If Britain and France had shown more backbone in the aftermath of the destruction of Czechoslovakia, the conservative German generals who opposed Hitler's aggressive and risky foreign policy would have been strengthened greatly and will likely have changed history (then again, that'd have happened after the reoccupation of Rhineland too when the German generals were ready to quickly retreat across the river if the Allies showed an inkling of opposing it). But how would it have changed is difficult to assess.
In any case, Hitler was like a drunk gambler on a winning roll. He kept throwing the dice even though the chance that he would keep getting lucky diminished greatly with each throw.Replies: @Cking
Again, people forget the Bolshevik Invasion of Europe at the time of Chamberlain’s pact with Hitler. France was terrified of the Red Army that was ready to invade Europe through Poland and wanted the German Army in France to protect her. It’s complicated.
Does anyone know what’s truly going on? Poland is marching into war with Russia. Big mistake. https://www.voltairenet.org/article217841.html
I'm not saying
a) nationalism itself never causes problems; it obviously does where in border regions are mixed and some might want this and some that
b) people with strong nationalist credentials haven't gone off on their imperial adventures; obvious they have Romans, Chinese ... Ottomans, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English, French, Russians, Americans, Germans, Italians, Japanese ...
What I'm saying is
a) nationalism and imperialism are distinct ideologies/behaviors and
b) it is mostly imperialism that causes problems.
As to Russia/Putin. A legit Russian nationalist could well think Crimea belongs to Russia and that ethnic Russians in Ukraine should be in Russia. Those would be the kind of issues where--because people are not properly sorted--nationalism (and aggressive attitudes) can lead to conflict.
A nationalist, but non-imperialist Hitler would have had some of those issues--and would have generated conflict. But it would not have led to the War--i.e. the big one. It was his imperialism that did that. Note that Europe became notable more peaceful after the War--mostly because of nukes and the US Army, but also because people were more properly sorted. Where they weren't quite--Northern Ireland, the Balkans--is where the big troubles popped up.
But as I said Chechnya's the "tell". Chechens are not Russians, and there's nothing positive about having them in Russia. They are negative for Russians. (And from what I've heard that's a general Russian opinion.) So, insisting that Chechnya stay in Russia is a "we are a big swinging dick" imperialist move. Not a nationalist one.
~~~
And again, if there's a lesson from 20th century history it is not "death to nationalists!" or "diversity is our greatest strength", "immigration, immigration, must have immigration!"--the officially approved Jewish lessons. That's just nonsense and doesn't reduce conflict at all, it grows contention and conflict.
The moral is something like "People do best in one-peopleish nations, behind agreed upon borders. This reduces conflict internally and externally and allows people to prosper and people of various nations to trade and have friendly relations with their neighbors."
Or "The ideology that can be universal and allow a peaceful world is nationalism that respects borders and other people's nationalisms."
Or ... "Good fences make good neighbors."Replies: @Twinkie, @Jack D
OK, I understand now what you are getting at. You want to tout the “Nationalist” brand of which you are a big fan and want to make sure that people don’t confuse it with the “Imperialist” brand – Imperialist brand margarine is fattening and no good for your cholesterol but Nationalist brand, made from the milk of happy cows, is positively good for you!
This is a tough row to hoe because the Nationalist brand has already been spoiled by those who came before. I advise starting over with a new brand name.
TBH, except in the case of countries that are too small and weak to have imperialist ambitions, it’s really hard to say where nationalism ends and imperialism begins – one follows from the other or at least it always has. If you think that being part of English speaking or Russian speaking or Chinese speaking culture (or French or German, etc.) is a great thing and that you are part of a nation that has a major historical role to play, you want your nation’s culture (and maybe even its borders) to spread as far as possible. Even places that today we think of as being (relatively) small ethnostates – the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Poland, etc. once had their own imperial ambitions. At the very least, even tiny nationalist states like Israel want to have a little breathing room around their borders for safety if nothing else.
If today in Europe we have some small and peaceful ethnostates like Slovakia and Slovenia, these exist only because they are part of a larger (one might say imperial) security framework. As Twinkie points out, if these states are ethnically “pure” today it was only achieved with a lot of (imperialist) violence first.
Also, if you scratch below the surface a bit, there are still simmering ethnic tensions almost everywhere – Spain to outsiders may be a single ethnostate, united for the last 500 years but once you zoom in, there are Catalans, Basques, etc. who reject the larger ethnostate and want their own little ethnostates. We think of Italy as being one country but it is a recent creation and its national language is just one standardized dialect among the dozens that were (in many cases still are) spoken and if you ask people what they are, they might answer Sicilian or Sardinian and not Italian. Nationality is really fractal – as you zoom in, the same patterns repeat themselves at smaller and smaller scale. In Siena, the city is divided into 17 contrade (neighborhoods) and people are loyal to their contrada which has its own flag and symbols:
While this looks like the map of Australia, the whole city of Siena is only 3 miles across and each contrada is only a few acres, but yet they are perfectly capable of having their own “nationalism” in relation to which any broader identity is “imperialist” – one man’s nationalism is another man’s imperialism.
and the Japanese see each other as long lost soulmates. Poland borders Russia
in the west and Japan borders Russia in the east, and both Poland and
Japan experienced a lot of unpleasantness in connection with Russia’s
military expansionism (esp. Poland), so the two countries have that in
common, particularly now in view of the newly resurgent Russia.But over and above the accidents of geography, it turns out that there are
deeper similarities between the two civilizations. For example, both
countries are very homogenous. There are very few Africans in Poland,
although currently a 14-year-old singer Sara James, daughter of a
Nigerian father and a Polish mother, born and raised in a small town
in Poland, has caught the eye of Simon Cowell, and will be competing
in the final of America’s Got Talent in September. Needless to say,
Sara practically overnight became world famous.On a deeper level, both Poland and Japan are repelled by the
everyday assertiveness of Westerners, which comes across as egomania.
When visiting Japan, my guide around Tokyo was a lovely educated Japanese
woman who told me she tried living in Britain and the U.S., but it seemed
to her like the Westerners she interacted with all took assertiveness
training classes. She couldn’t tolerate it, and returned to Japan. I have to agree
with her. Back in the ‘60s at least, the last decade when American women were
still actively looking for husbands, assertiveness was not seen as very endearing
in women. All this has changed in the ‘70s, the Me Decade, with Women’s Lib,
when ‘Looking out for No.1’ became the ruling slogan of the era, and was reinforced in
the ‘80s by the advent of the Yuppies.Replies: @cliff arroyo, @Anon 2
“On a deeper level, both Poland and Japan are repelled by the everyday assertiveness of Westerners”
On what planet? IME (over 20 years in Poland) Poles tend to be _far_ more assertive than run of the mill “westerners”. I used to sometimes be in a position to help orient arriving Americans about what to expect in Poland and one of the first things was “stand up for yourself and learn how to be assertive or you’ll end up with footprints all over your face”.
Yt’s at it again.
and the Japanese see each other as long lost soulmates. Poland borders Russia
in the west and Japan borders Russia in the east, and both Poland and
Japan experienced a lot of unpleasantness in connection with Russia’s
military expansionism (esp. Poland), so the two countries have that in
common, particularly now in view of the newly resurgent Russia.But over and above the accidents of geography, it turns out that there are
deeper similarities between the two civilizations. For example, both
countries are very homogenous. There are very few Africans in Poland,
although currently a 14-year-old singer Sara James, daughter of a
Nigerian father and a Polish mother, born and raised in a small town
in Poland, has caught the eye of Simon Cowell, and will be competing
in the final of America’s Got Talent in September. Needless to say,
Sara practically overnight became world famous.On a deeper level, both Poland and Japan are repelled by the
everyday assertiveness of Westerners, which comes across as egomania.
When visiting Japan, my guide around Tokyo was a lovely educated Japanese
woman who told me she tried living in Britain and the U.S., but it seemed
to her like the Westerners she interacted with all took assertiveness
training classes. She couldn’t tolerate it, and returned to Japan. I have to agree
with her. Back in the ‘60s at least, the last decade when American women were
still actively looking for husbands, assertiveness was not seen as very endearing
in women. All this has changed in the ‘70s, the Me Decade, with Women’s Lib,
when ‘Looking out for No.1’ became the ruling slogan of the era, and was reinforced in
the ‘80s by the advent of the Yuppies.Replies: @cliff arroyo, @Anon 2
Re: Poland and Japan as potential soulmates
Poland is the land of castles (and cathedrals) which the Japanese living
in Poland love because it reminds them of their own samurai past. The
Polish to this day in everyday language refer to each other as Pan (lit.
Lord) and Pani (lit. Lady). The distinction between ‘you’ and ‘thou’ is
still socially very strong, and is supported by verbs taking different
grammatical endings. Richard Feynman reportedly was determined
to learn Japanese but quickly lost interest once he found out that
in Japanese there are 5 or 6 levels of politeness which require different
grammatical structures. Similarly, in Polish there are several levels
of politeness depending on whom you’re addressing. All this involves
a great deal of nuance which has largely been lost in English. Americans
spend a lot of time and energy talking about gender and sex, but
you don’t see much discussion of love and friendship, and different
types and levels of each, as you do in Poland, and continental Europe
in general. Aristotle devoted several chapters of his Nicomachean Ethics
to friendship. There is nothing similar in the U.S., and as a result
human relationships in the U.S. seem rather coarse and devoid of nuance.
P.S. Visiting Poland, young women curtsied before me on two different
occasions, and I’m not that imposing. One of them actually had a doctorate.
I said to myself, “I could get used to that.”.
In both Japan and Poland it’s quite acceptable to dwell on sadness, and
its different expressions such as grief, nostalgia, wistfulness, homesickness, etc
Even in public, it’s okay to show a sad face along with different gradations
of melancholy. You don’t have to be cheerful and efficient 100% of the time.
Women don’t have to take antidepressants so they won’t cry in public.
University students can postpone exams if they feel indisposed. Human
weakness is understood and treated with compassion.
Finally, both the Japanese and the Polish have a genetic tendency toward
shyness. That’s probably why in Japan you see vending machines everywhere.
The Japanese often would rather buy a product from a vending machine than
face a human being. Humility is encouraged in both countries. Note that
Iga Światek, Poland’s tennis champion, may be world no.1, but still comes
across as modest, and sometimes even shy. On the positive side, you can’t be
charming without a certain degree of shyness. That’s why it’s so hard for
Americans, raised as they are in an assertive extroverted culture, to be charming.
It explains why American women, even a hundred years ago, long before
women’s lib, were often described by European visitors as mannish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca6sBaNsluoReplies: @Jack D
If you visit the historic center of Warsaw today it looks just like it did before the war but it was completely reconstructed because as you can see from the film it was largely burned out. In some cases there was nothing at all left to reconstruct and they built a brand new structure from pre-war photos to look exactly like the prewar building. I have to hand it to the Communists – it was all very well done and could not have been cheap:
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/30/
Once you get away from the center (for example to the former Jewish ghetto area) they just leveled everything and started fresh with Soviet style housing projects that are not very nice. They went so far as to relocate the street grid. When I was in Warsaw I wanted to visit Mila 18 which was the site of the Jewish Resistance HQ and the grave of many of the fighters – at the end of the war they just pushed the remnants of the building into a pile and put some dirt on top so that it’s just a mound. I had seen picture of this so I knew that it existed. So I went to #18 on Mila Street according to the map and it wasn’t there – there was just one of those housing projects. A very nice older Polish lady who had lived in Chicago and spoke English was out walking her little dog and when she saw that we were lost (the project looked perfectly safe but not the kind of place that attracts tourists) she insisted on making some phone calls until she could figure out where to send us – the real Mila 18 was a couple of blocks away where Mila St. used to be.
You might think that a mound of dirt is not very moving or worth a trip, but I found it to be so, more so than the formal ghetto monument which is a few blocks away.
ZZW-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Military_Union
ZOB-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Combat_Organization...Mila 18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtAxtfHuXHsSo much Prussian history destroyed in less than a decade. Maybe the Germans can buy it back someday.Replies: @nebulafox
After the war, the ZZW’s participation in the ghetto uprising was overlooked in favour of the ZOB, which brought together both socialists and communists, and which the far-right ZZW, closely linked to Betar, did not join[44]. One of the few Polish historians during the People’s Republic of Poland to mention the participation of the ŻZW in the uprising was Bernard Ber Mark in his monograph Walka i zagłada warszawskiego getta, published by the Ministry of Defence in Warsaw in 1959. The ZZW was directly forgotten because of its association with the Home Army and the right-wing political current it represented
ZZW-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Military_Union
ZOB-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Combat_Organization…Mila 18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_K%C3%B6nigsberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Gda%C5%84sk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_SilesiaReplies: @HdC
Germany fought a war of aggression? If you believe that you are insane.
Let’s see:
1) 1933: Judea Declares War on Germany.
2) Between the wars, Poles murder German expatriates by the tens of thousands and refuses to talk to Germany to stop this and settle a number of other issues.
3) 1939, Germany marches into Poland to stop this massacre, and also address a number of other irritants.
4) 1939, Britain, France, and USA de facto, declare war on Germany.
5) 1941, the Soviet Union is poised to invade Germany and western Europe. (Icebreaker).
6) Germany executes a peremptory strike to stop this.
7) The USA aids and abets the Soviet Union’s agression with millions of tons of war material.
And Germany is the aggressor/bad guy?
Has the world gone nuts? No need to answer, the answer is self evident.
WW2 Poles fight from the sewers. Don’t miss the Goliath land torpedoes!
Andrzej Wajda's greatness was built by the former rulers of the People's Republic of Poland for their immediate propaganda needs.
What is more, the quoted documents show that the director himself agreed to such a game and consciously participated in it.
What is worse, he engaged his talent in this game by making only such films as the rulers of the People's Republic of Poland expected of him. So who was and is Andrzej Wajda - a role model, an authority, an artist or a victim of politics or perhaps an eternal conformist?
In Andrzej Wajda's successive films, one can see the same track of historiosophical intentions - a constant criticism of the Polish "madness" of freedom and national aspirations. This criticism is sometimes taken to the extreme: in Lotna, Polish uhlans pound German tanks like idiots; in Kanal, insurgents literally and morally immerse themselves in cesspools ; in Ashes and Diamonds, patriots from the Home Army become murderers driven to crime by fatalism stemming from their mental bent. As if Polishness were a disease. From which one must be cured.
1) Stop murdering German expatriates, and return German territory stolen after WW I.
2) Ignore all reasonable German proposals and, after the British useless guarantee to Poland, become downright bellicose towards Germany. The Poles also would have had to ignore Roosevelt's admonition not to negotiate with Germany!
Most of us know the choice Poland made: Believe the useless British guarantee.
I submit that, had Poland chosen to hitch its wagon, as it were, to Germany's industrial locomotive in the late 1930's, we'd have a much different, better?, world today.
As to Poland's demand for blackm ahem "reparations", I'd say yeah, let's talk about that. First you compensate the families and inheritors of the 35,000 German expatriates you murdered, and all the property you stole from them. Let's see, 10,000,000 Euros per murder x 35,000 = 35 billion Euros.
Then we will have the return of all German territory stolen after the two WW.
Now then, you, Poland, let us have your claims, and justification plus PROOF, thereof.Replies: @Jack D, @Pixo, @John Johnson
Historical revisionism that ignores Hitler’s plans to turn the East into Greater Germany.
The Poles were never to be given autonomy and Hitler planned on starving most of Eastern Europe. St. Petersburg was just a preview of what was to come.
Hitler’s last offer to the Poles made them subjects to the German Empire. It is a myth that he only wanted a Danzig corridor. Just another myth created by his supporters.
Hiter was just plain full of s–t and planned on taking it all. It was Hitler that broke the Munich agreement.
“This is my last territorial demand in Europe”
Hitler lying in September 1938
Do you have any facts to substantiate your opinions?Replies: @John Johnson
I think you’re forgetting the Bolshevik Invasions that killed 20,000,000 people before Hitler confronted the Soviet Red Army. It’s like the Poles don’t know their own history, And now they’re in Ukraine fighting Russia in exchange for Galicia.
I don’t think you know Polish history.
It was actually the Poles that fought off the Soviets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
The Nazis never talked about that war nor did they talk about how the Poles once saved Germany from Muslims. All unwanted history.
After taking Poland in a brutal invasion the “anti-Communist” Hitler went and kidnapped Aryan looking Poland children and gave them to German families. What a guy. He actually went in and killed Poles that had killed Communists and took their children if they were Germanic looking. And he claimed the Jews lacked morality????
I really don’t care if anyone wants to talk about Jewish influence in Weimar Germany or 1930s Poland. That doesn’t justify kidnapping and killing children or killing anti-Communists. The guy was a deranged psychopath. He never needed to invade Poland. It was a gamble that the Allies would back them Poland and he lost the bet. Germany still beat France and yet Hitler decided to gamble again on the Soviet invasion after he stated that he wouldn’t make the mistake of war of two fronts. Hitler was a war addict that wasn’t going to stop until he was dead. Like Putin he probably knew he had Parkinson’s and was going to go down as a warlord and never cared the whole time about Communism. If Communism didn’t exist he would have campaigned on some other pretense.
Let's see:
1) 1933: Judea Declares War on Germany.
2) Between the wars, Poles murder German expatriates by the tens of thousands and refuses to talk to Germany to stop this and settle a number of other issues.
3) 1939, Germany marches into Poland to stop this massacre, and also address a number of other irritants.
4) 1939, Britain, France, and USA de facto, declare war on Germany.
5) 1941, the Soviet Union is poised to invade Germany and western Europe. (Icebreaker).
6) Germany executes a peremptory strike to stop this.
7) The USA aids and abets the Soviet Union's agression with millions of tons of war material.
And Germany is the aggressor/bad guy?
Has the world gone nuts? No need to answer, the answer is self evident.Replies: @John Johnson
Hilarious historical revisionism.
1) 1933: Judea Declares War on Germany.
You mean Jews around the world declare a boycott on German goods AFTER Hitler goes after them in Germany. They didn’t declare a military war as they had no state.
What did you expect them to do? If a South African Black dictator went after Whites would you be against a boycott?
1939, Germany marches into Poland to stop this massacre, and also address a number of other irritants.
Germany create a false flag event and drops over 500 tons of ordinance on Warsaw. Do tell how blowing up children is some act of self-defense.
You forgot:
2.5) Hitler lies and breaks the Munich agreement
3.5) Britain and France give Hitler a chance to withdraw his forces from Poland to avoid world war
5.5) Against the advice of his generals Hitler demands a war of extermination against the USSR, not a war of liberation. Another huge mistake as he could have easily turned the Baltics and Ukraine against the USSR. Instead he went on a killing spree in countries that wanted nothing to do with Communism.
5.6) Hitler orders the Siege of Leningrad and intentionally starves over 100 thousand women and children to death. Millions more were to starve under the hunger plan.
7.1 Hitler knows the war is lost and fights to the death knowing that millions of Germans will suffer under the Red Army if he doesn’t surrender to the West. He knows full well that the women will be raped and his remaining loyal soldiers will be sent off to horrifying deaths in Stalin’s gulags.
WHAT A GUY
When do we see the ads on teevee?
“Was YOUR country injured or killed? You may be entitled to reparations! Call Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, NOW. If you or a beloved country was injured, don’t be denied justice. There is no fee. Call NOW!!”
I don't think you know Polish history.
It was actually the Poles that fought off the Soviets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
The Nazis never talked about that war nor did they talk about how the Poles once saved Germany from Muslims. All unwanted history.
After taking Poland in a brutal invasion the "anti-Communist" Hitler went and kidnapped Aryan looking Poland children and gave them to German families. What a guy. He actually went in and killed Poles that had killed Communists and took their children if they were Germanic looking. And he claimed the Jews lacked morality????
I really don't care if anyone wants to talk about Jewish influence in Weimar Germany or 1930s Poland. That doesn't justify kidnapping and killing children or killing anti-Communists. The guy was a deranged psychopath. He never needed to invade Poland. It was a gamble that the Allies would back them Poland and he lost the bet. Germany still beat France and yet Hitler decided to gamble again on the Soviet invasion after he stated that he wouldn't make the mistake of war of two fronts. Hitler was a war addict that wasn't going to stop until he was dead. Like Putin he probably knew he had Parkinson's and was going to go down as a warlord and never cared the whole time about Communism. If Communism didn't exist he would have campaigned on some other pretense.Replies: @Cking
You must be Polish.
It almost seems that redrawing borders along ethnic lines was not just a German fad in those days.Replies: @International Jew
Poland was that two-bit thug that makes the mistake of tangling with a big-time gangster.
Nah, two at a time. That's twice two bits. Thugged one of them in the Battle of Britain, again in liberating the Netherlands, again in closing the Falaise Gap and again at Monte Cassino. Costly actions, in blood more than in pocket change. And had to stand aside and just watch the London Victory parade because the other big guy hung around till 1989.Replies: @International Jew
No I’m an actual anti-leftist that doesn’t ignore history.
I would never shake the hand of Stalin or any Communist.
Hitler made a deal with Stalin to split Poland in half.
He also sent Polish anti-Communists off to camps.
The Polish veterans that killed Communists should have been given awards.
Hitler instead stole their children. What a guy.
Poland was that two-bit thug that makes the mistake of tangling with a big-time gangster.
Nah, two at a time. That’s twice two bits. Thugged one of them in the Battle of Britain, again in liberating the Netherlands, again in closing the Falaise Gap and again at Monte Cassino. Costly actions, in blood more than in pocket change. And had to stand aside and just watch the London Victory parade because the other big guy hung around till 1989.
In the Polish/German exchange, here’s a legal detail (Google translate). No formal document renouncing reparations was ever executed by Poland. Even if it had been, it would not have been a sovereign act.
Background from Reuters.
I like patient examination of details.
This is a tough row to hoe because the Nationalist brand has already been spoiled by those who came before. I advise starting over with a new brand name.
TBH, except in the case of countries that are too small and weak to have imperialist ambitions, it's really hard to say where nationalism ends and imperialism begins - one follows from the other or at least it always has. If you think that being part of English speaking or Russian speaking or Chinese speaking culture (or French or German, etc.) is a great thing and that you are part of a nation that has a major historical role to play, you want your nation's culture (and maybe even its borders) to spread as far as possible. Even places that today we think of as being (relatively) small ethnostates - the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Poland, etc. once had their own imperial ambitions. At the very least, even tiny nationalist states like Israel want to have a little breathing room around their borders for safety if nothing else.
If today in Europe we have some small and peaceful ethnostates like Slovakia and Slovenia, these exist only because they are part of a larger (one might say imperial) security framework. As Twinkie points out, if these states are ethnically "pure" today it was only achieved with a lot of (imperialist) violence first.
Also, if you scratch below the surface a bit, there are still simmering ethnic tensions almost everywhere - Spain to outsiders may be a single ethnostate, united for the last 500 years but once you zoom in, there are Catalans, Basques, etc. who reject the larger ethnostate and want their own little ethnostates. We think of Italy as being one country but it is a recent creation and its national language is just one standardized dialect among the dozens that were (in many cases still are) spoken and if you ask people what they are, they might answer Sicilian or Sardinian and not Italian. Nationality is really fractal - as you zoom in, the same patterns repeat themselves at smaller and smaller scale. In Siena, the city is divided into 17 contrade (neighborhoods) and people are loyal to their contrada which has its own flag and symbols:
https://i2.wp.com/dreamdiscoveritalia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/map-of-contrade.png?w=562&ssl=1
While this looks like the map of Australia, the whole city of Siena is only 3 miles across and each contrada is only a few acres, but yet they are perfectly capable of having their own "nationalism" in relation to which any broader identity is "imperialist" - one man's nationalism is another man's imperialism.Replies: @Steve Sailer
The 17 neighborhoods of Siena sponsor a spectacular horse race downtown every summer. Jockeys are allowed to bribe and strike each other, which adds interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTbpH6356xIReplies: @Chriss
Andrzej Wajda’s film jugglery
Andrzej Wajda’s greatness was built by the former rulers of the People’s Republic of Poland for their immediate propaganda needs.
What is more, the quoted documents show that the director himself agreed to such a game and consciously participated in it.
What is worse, he engaged his talent in this game by making only such films as the rulers of the People’s Republic of Poland expected of him. So who was and is Andrzej Wajda – a role model, an authority, an artist or a victim of politics or perhaps an eternal conformist?
In Andrzej Wajda’s successive films, one can see the same track of historiosophical intentions – a constant criticism of the Polish “madness” of freedom and national aspirations. This criticism is sometimes taken to the extreme: in Lotna, Polish uhlans pound German tanks like idiots; in Kanal, insurgents literally and morally immerse themselves in cesspools ; in Ashes and Diamonds, patriots from the Home Army become murderers driven to crime by fatalism stemming from their mental bent. As if Polishness were a disease. From which one must be cured.
Nah, two at a time. That's twice two bits. Thugged one of them in the Battle of Britain, again in liberating the Netherlands, again in closing the Falaise Gap and again at Monte Cassino. Costly actions, in blood more than in pocket change. And had to stand aside and just watch the London Victory parade because the other big guy hung around till 1989.Replies: @International Jew
I have nothing against the Polish people; they acquitted themselves honorably. When I said “two-bit thugs” I was referring to the governments post Pilsudski.
Opinions are like assholes…
Do you have any facts to substantiate your opinions?
Do you have any facts to substantiate your opinions?What exactly do you take issue with? Or are you too lazy to read about WW2 outside of Unz?Hitler breaking the Munich agreement and the Nazi plans to eliminate Poland aren't disputed. The Nazis were insulted by the existence of Poland. They even blew up what remained of Warsaw on the way out.
https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-destruction-of-warsaw-the-nazi-plan-to-obliterate-a-citySo they knew that they were losing and destroyed even more of Warsaw as they retreated. All on orders from Hitler who had once described himself as the savior of Europe.
This moronic anti-Polish stuff here is beyond belief. What a bunch of foul, pathetic nonsense.
For the record, I don't blame Hitler for trashing Versailles, a treaty signed under duress blaming Germany for the Great War which it was hardly alone in starting, but was a "group project" of laughably bad decision making by Europe's "Great Powers".
But the Munich agreement was Hitler's agreement. And he got it claiming it was "the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe" ... and then five months later walked in and grabbed up the Czech rump--and stole the gold in its central bank.
If Britain and France had been ready, willing and able to invade right then a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided.
That any other leader should take Hitler as a serious negotiating partner after that is laughable.Replies: @Twinkie, @Chebyshev
There was justification for Hitler’s invasion of Czechoslovakia. Here’s part of a larger comment Ron made a couple of years ago:
“Czechoslovakia was never a “real country,” but actually a mini-empire, in which the Czechs plurality used various dishonest means to maintain total control over very large minorities of highly-discontented Germans, Slovaks, and other groups. After Hitler freed the Germans for Germany, the Slovaks and the others also escaped Czech rule and the “empire” fell apart, while Poland and Hungary grabbed back bits that the Czechs had stolen after WWI. The Czechs had previously been ruled by Germans for something like 1000 years, and the new Czech government naturally turned to Germany to protect them against their ravenous neighbors, though the details are disputed. According to all the evidence I’ve seen, Heydrich was quite popular among the Czechs, partly because he extended to them the social welfare benefits that Germans had long enjoyed under Hitler.”
Well your history is still not complete until you see the obvious; WWI and WWII were organized to kill Germans, period. Since Prince Edward, later King Edward VII, the ‘West’, International Financial Power, centered in the City of London, planned to destroy the German nation-state, break her up into pieces and annihilate the German people, because she was a rival to the British Imperial system. More than 20 million Germans were killed before, during, and after WWII. Germans were still being killed into the 1950’s. And neither wars could have happened without the Federal Reserve Bank system.
Somehow Poland became a dependency of Great Britain, and was a part of Edward’s plan, always abusing Germans within her borders and territories. 58,000 Germans were killed in Poland out of slander driven, fear mongering, ethnic competition. And Hitler did try to be conciliatory, initiating diplomatic overtures, but the Polish leadership were not going for it.
Now after the 1920 Bolshevik Invasion of Poland; how was it possible that the British and Poles did not see the Soviet Red Army on Poland’s 1939 border? Poland was eventually betrayed by Churchill and FDR, forced into the Soviet system of satellite states. Poland is now buddies with crazy ‘Z’ in exchange for Galicia. I don’t see this ending well, unless Poland and Germany will initiate rapprochement with Russia.
Poland goes to war against Russia at Voltaire
Who started WWII?
It isn’t what it was in 1939:
What a shame that the Nazis wanted to destroy it.
The loss of Konigsburg is even worse
So much Prussian history destroyed in less than a decade.
Maybe the Germans can buy it back someday.
Do you have any facts to substantiate your opinions?Replies: @John Johnson
Opinions are like assholes…
Do you have any facts to substantiate your opinions?
What exactly do you take issue with? Or are you too lazy to read about WW2 outside of Unz?
Hitler breaking the Munich agreement and the Nazi plans to eliminate Poland aren’t disputed.
The Nazis were insulted by the existence of Poland. They even blew up what remained of Warsaw on the way out.
https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-destruction-of-warsaw-the-nazi-plan-to-obliterate-a-city
So they knew that they were losing and destroyed even more of Warsaw as they retreated.
All on orders from Hitler who had once described himself as the savior of Europe.
I hope the Iraqi’s are working on their claim against the US.
"Czechoslovakia was never a “real country,” but actually a mini-empire, in which the Czechs plurality used various dishonest means to maintain total control over very large minorities of highly-discontented Germans, Slovaks, and other groups. After Hitler freed the Germans for Germany, the Slovaks and the others also escaped Czech rule and the “empire” fell apart, while Poland and Hungary grabbed back bits that the Czechs had stolen after WWI. The Czechs had previously been ruled by Germans for something like 1000 years, and the new Czech government naturally turned to Germany to protect them against their ravenous neighbors, though the details are disputed. According to all the evidence I’ve seen, Heydrich was quite popular among the Czechs, partly because he extended to them the social welfare benefits that Germans had long enjoyed under Hitler."Replies: @Cking
Yes, the Bolsheviks were raging through eastern Europe, the Baltics, and the Balkans. Pro-royalists soldiers from Czechoslovakia called ‘Whites’ attempted to free the Czar and the Royal family in Russia. Fear of the Bolsheviks was probably the reason the Czechs welcomed German administration. The Soviet Red Army were assembling on Poland’s border. No one demanded that the Bolsheviks stop their invasions. The presence of Bolshevik revolution in the Balkans and Stalin’s Red Army at Poland’s door, explains the pressure that informed Chamberlain’s perspective and 1938 “Peace in Our Time” declaration.
Thanks for clarification, IJ. And every page begins another book.
Not everybody. France had a large and powerful Communist Party that supported staying out of the war when the Germans and Soviets tacitly allied in 1939. The fate of the KPD in Germany should have indicated just how much Stalin was to be trusted, but ideology can work wonders in blinding people.
Part of the reason you didn’t see French intervention against the Third Reich was because French politics in the 1930s were so turbulent. Probably the biggest opportunity they had was in 1933, not 1936 or 1938, because Poland hadn’t signed a non-aggression pact with Berlin yet, but that’s using an abnormal level of historical hindsight: it wasn’t even clear that the Nazi dictatorship would last yet.
Germany had ANTIFA rioting (Jewish power) in Berlin to make their presence known. Berlin and Bavaria were declared Soviet States during the Weimar era. I agree the French government was about to break into pieces, under pressure from the Communists in the government, the citizenry and in the streets; hence the need for the German 'Invasion' of France PsyOp. Actually there for protection from the Red Army.
A pretext had to be developed to justify killing Germany; a PsyOp had to be developed. Because of all the complications The British, the Jews, the Bolsheviks, Communists, and Stalin's Red Army, the members of the Federal Reserve Bank, Wall St. the MSM was able to orchestrate a great PsyOp on the general public. All the 'patriotic and moralizations' were nonsense. The MSM had all kinds of buttons to push for war. Manufacturing consent was another thing.
No matter, all the while Imperium's imperatives, 'war because war is profitable', that is primitive accumulation, of land, real estate, Industry, manufactures, commodities, minerals, ores, and governments, that they don't have to pay for was realized by 1945. The Soviets kept the rest of Europe down. The British found themselves down and out. And the United States ruled the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtAxtfHuXHsSo much Prussian history destroyed in less than a decade. Maybe the Germans can buy it back someday.Replies: @nebulafox
Not a chance. Adenauer went out of his way to reinforce Western German, non-Prussian identities after the war. The man’s own opinions led the way. (“Here comes Asia”. Closes train window…) The actual refugees themselves remained distinctive even as they intermarried with the locals in western and southern Germany, but the descendants of the East Elbians assimilated into the local region, changing dialect and religion when necessary, and adopting the subculture of their “local” parent if they came from a mixed marriage.
It also helped that the process of eradicating Germany’s previously strong sense of regionalism had begun with the war generation under the Third Reich. For better or for worse, the Nazis destroyed what was left of the pre-1920s order and laid the foundations for the more unified, less regional, state-netted Germany to come.
Very good. I still say by order of the British Monarchy WWI and WWII were organized to kill Germans period. In 1919 Lenin, with 100’s of $millions of dollars from the US, began his first foreign policy mission by urging his followers, “the way to Paris and Berlin is through Warsaw” hence the beginning of WWII. The French and the Germans had to have heard that proclamation. The Poles were shocked in 1920 and should have been more concerned in 1939. Going on about Germany who tried to reason with the Poles is ad nauseum. The Poles were sacrificed by there own leadership. It’s never been confronted.
Germany had ANTIFA rioting (Jewish power) in Berlin to make their presence known. Berlin and Bavaria were declared Soviet States during the Weimar era. I agree the French government was about to break into pieces, under pressure from the Communists in the government, the citizenry and in the streets; hence the need for the German ‘Invasion’ of France PsyOp. Actually there for protection from the Red Army.
A pretext had to be developed to justify killing Germany; a PsyOp had to be developed. Because of all the complications The British, the Jews, the Bolsheviks, Communists, and Stalin’s Red Army, the members of the Federal Reserve Bank, Wall St. the MSM was able to orchestrate a great PsyOp on the general public. All the ‘patriotic and moralizations’ were nonsense. The MSM had all kinds of buttons to push for war. Manufacturing consent was another thing.
No matter, all the while Imperium’s imperatives, ‘war because war is profitable’, that is primitive accumulation, of land, real estate, Industry, manufactures, commodities, minerals, ores, and governments, that they don’t have to pay for was realized by 1945. The Soviets kept the rest of Europe down. The British found themselves down and out. And the United States ruled the world.
Germany confirms $28M settlement with Munich attack families
https://www.theweek.in/news/sports/2022/09/02/germany-confirms--28m-settlement-with-munich-attack-families.htmlReplies: @Barnard, @beavertales
Germany has given tens of billions to the state of Israel. Poles want in on the action, while denying Israelites’ claims of properties in Warsaw long lost in the war.
Again, people forget the Bolshevik Invasion of Europe at the time of Chamberlain’s pact with Hitler. France was terrified of the Red Army that was ready to invade Europe through Poland and wanted the German Army in France to protect her. It’s complicated.
What movie was that from?
Hitler is the one that made a deal with Stalin to split Poland.
Lenin had backed off on the idea of pushing the revolution through war into Germany after being stopped by Poland. There is no reason to believe that Stalin wanted a conventional war in the 1930s.
That was also when it was assumed that France alone could defeat Germany or the USSR and they would be backed by Britain and possibly the US. Hitler’s generals had long been against getting into a fight with France which is why Hitler started ignoring them after France was defeated so quickly. Hitler thought he was some war god and the generals were too conservative.
France was never terrified of the Red Army. Russia was viewed as a loser in WW1 that was only saved by a war of two fronts. It was assumed the Red Army would be worse due to the failed economics of Communism.
Stalin wanted easy gains. Going against a power like France was too risky. What they wanted was for KPD to take Germany by force and then surround France. But that fantasy was out after the Nazis took over.
Hitler was too greedy. If he had picked off easy gains and then went against Stalin then he could have kept Britain out of it. The British weren’t going to fight for the USSR. Chamberlain wanted Hitler to go east in the first place but not through Poland unless they had permission. Hitler was extremely vindictive about Poland and couldn’t resist invading. Germans viewed Poland as territory taken from them and a reminder that they lost WW1. Hitler gambled that the British wouldn’t actually back Poland and lost. Then after defeating France he couldn’t stop gambling. I also think at some point he really wanted to kill Slavs and Jews even if there wasn’t any tactical gain. He had to back off on the Commissar order because it made Soviet troops less likely to surrender. At the end of the war he chose to use troops to take Hungary instead of using them defensively. The best explanation is that he wanted their Jews.
Not a chance.
Not a chance what? That the Germans won’t buy it back someday?
No one believed that the Russians would get their asses kicked by the Japanese in a single naval battle.
No one believed that the Finns would kick the assess of the Russians in the Winter War.
No one believed that the Ukrainians would be fighting this long.
Don’t underestimate the ability of the Russians to overestimate themselves.
If their economy were to hit rock bottom they could make some quick cash by selling Kaliningrad. They sold us Alaska for a bargain. It’s entirely possible.
Russia has had negative population growth since 1994. They don’t need all this land.
>Not a chance what? That the Germans won’t buy it back someday?
There’s no interest for the same reason that the desperate hunt for teenage buck privates as “war criminals” earns much deserved scorn here. What would they do with it? People who remember East Prussia or Silesia are, quite literally, a dying breed. Russia was much worse off in the 1990s, and the Germans in far less vulnerable of a position. No interest then, either. You’ve got a better chance of Korean reunification.
(It’s not an exact analogue, but the descendants of the people who fled the north-IRC, Hyundai’s founder came from the north originally, to take one example-have long since stopped emotionally identifying with the place to the point of seriously desiring it back. The descendants of mainland refugees on Taiwan have also assimilated into the island’s subculture after decades of there being a real gap between them and the island natives, one that still has a lingering impact on Taiwanese military-civilian relations.)
The truth is that there were no ‘good guys’ in Europe before WWII. They were all a bunch of psychos.
Back in the early 1960s, in an almost perfect manner, the Polish government negotiated a settlement for property that had been nationalised and belonged to citizens of other countries, including Americans. I remember a lawyer who came to the Ministry on behalf of a client from New York, and it was to him that we showed a document certifying that Poland had settled the matter with the US. The document was signed on the American side by President John F. Kennedy and on the Polish side by Prime Minister Józef Cyrankiewicz. It showed that Poland had transferred 40 million dollars to the Americans to cover the claims of American citizens. This agreement was ratified by the US Congress and the Polish Sejm. The US government thus assumed any obligations that might still have arisen on the part of its citizens. I pointed out to the lawyer, who was not even aware of this agreement, the correct address for filing claims – the State Department in Washington. I am surprised that this is not remembered either in the US or in Poland, it must have been caused by the change of personnel in the ministries, but the documents, though dusty, should be available. Are the international agreements signed by JFK no longer valid? What I am currently reading about renewed claims from abroad seems to me a scandal. Why should we pay twice for something that has already been paid? After all, this would be an attempt to extort undue assets, downright robbery in broad daylight. Poland had such agreements with 14 countries. For example, we paid our obligations to the Swiss people with coal supplies, and we paid the United States in live cash. Today, if someone believes that some property is owed to them, they can always take legal action individually. It must also be remembered that this property – apart from its nominal value – was maintained, renovated and taxes were paid for it all these years after nationalisation, and all this should be taken into account in any valuation. In other countries which have followed a similar path to Poland, such as the Czech Republic, this problem does not arise at all.
(It's similar to the campaign against Switzerland in the 1990s. Also a politically isolated country with no powerful friends.)
A lot of current day international law is a descendant of highly useful feudal law: OK, we came to an agreement over X, so we’re done with X.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/447
Such as?
Law 447 is guided by a nationality criterion, one Jew is to seize the property of another Jew, just because he is also a Jew. – This would be a Talmudisation of the law, completely incompatible with our civilisation and a racial approach. Why can they claim and we cannot, in what are we inferior?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/447
“A lot of current day international law is a descendant of highly useful feudal law: OK, we came to an agreement over X, so we’re done with X.“
Such as?
The Jews are pushing this now because Poland is isolated politically and therefore perceived to be vulnerable to pressure from the U.S. That’s all. Talk of legalities is missing the point.
(It’s similar to the campaign against Switzerland in the 1990s. Also a politically isolated country with no powerful friends.)
I thought you were a Mensch, Buzz, what the hell? We need more nationalistic Romanians marrying Westerners to argue for our ethnic interests like unification with the R of Moldova.
Anyway, while I agree that Poland asking for reparations is either theater or long-shot opportunism, someone asking for territories is not the same, especially when the demographics of the territory make it impossible to assimilate. Maybe it would be similar if Hungary were to demand the Hungarian-majority center of Romania or some theoretical compact territory on the border, but taking Transylvania means taking 6.7 million people, of which only 1.3 are Hungarians.
Orban already gave citizenship to the Hungarians in Romania, Romania was simply the first country among its neighbors to permit double citizenship and thereby allow it.
EU trade zone opportunities are a separate argument from Eurozone macroeconomic weaknesses related to “Optimal Currency Areas” and how not being one results in divergent economic evolution. Stiglitza has a book on the eurozone, and Yanis Varoufakis has multiple ones (better than Stiglitz’s more remote perspective).
But in the modern Russian context, "Russian World" is bigger than just Russia - it's a whole civilization which stands in opposition to Glob0-Homo World/America. Russian culture and civilization is so great and wonderful that it is not reserved just for people who live within the current borders of Russia. People anywhere, especially but not only Russian speakers and people who once lived within the borders of the USSR, could benefit by becoming part of Russian World (again) and rejecting Globo-Homo World. If the government of various bordering countries wants to join Globo-Homo World contrary to the best interest of its citizens (especially its Russian speaking citizens) it is the duty of Russia to help out those poor citizens.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Romanian
I always appreciate your comments and the effort you put into them, but the ideas here are a hard pass for me. It is possible to dislike Globo-Homo and Russian imperialism as well. Russia is not some leading light of the world and while I can agree that some governments and people find profit in closer ties (the Tajiks, for instance, export a lot of labor there) and others are resisting Globo-Homo and having a hard time of it, I cannot blithely accept your civilizational interventionist angle. We have a joke here – “why do we prefer American imperialism to the Russian one? At least the Americans fuck us with lube and a condom”. Hasn’t aged well in the monkeypox era, but the underlying reality is still there. Neither is Russia some paragon of Christianity and racial conservatism.
Anyway, while I agree that Poland asking for reparations is either theater or long-shot opportunism, someone asking for territories is not the same, especially when the demographics of the territory make it impossible to assimilate. Maybe it would be similar if Hungary were to demand the Hungarian-majority center of Romania or some theoretical compact territory on the border, but taking Transylvania means taking 6.7 million people, of which only 1.3 are Hungarians.
Orban already gave citizenship to the Hungarians in Romania, Romania was simply the first country among its neighbors to permit double citizenship and thereby allow it.Replies: @Anonymous
Was that a smart move? What are the pros and cons?
Maybe we could have specifically excluded double citizenship with Hungary, but it would have been needlessly divisive and, despite what the detractors say, the government has erred on the side of constant appeasement of Romanian Hungarians and Hungary itself, so we would not seem bullies. That made us easily bullied.
Eventually, all of its neighbors introduced double citizenship, partly because of the same reasoning, but also because we had the largest minority of Hungarians and had set an example that could be used against them. We had cause to regret it because the Romanian Hungarian minority especially became very relevant to Hungarian politics, which attracted a lot of funding, political attention and political showmanship, like Orban's frequent visits and speeches like he owns the place, like the widely criticized speech in the Băile Tuşnad Summer University with the so-called racist comments recently.
It was necessary, because we wanted to maintain ties with our own diaspora, which was becoming larger. We knew it would, because we also intermarry a lot, so having the kids take Romanian citizenship as well was a priority for maintaining ties, keeping them in the Sunday language schools etc. We also have a good bit of migration to Romania, including through mixed marriages, and wanted to keep them here. We did not close our embassy in Damascus during the civil war because there are 30k mixed Romanian Syrian families there.
Maybe we could have specifically excluded double citizenship with Hungary, but it would have been needlessly divisive and, despite what the detractors say, the government has erred on the side of constant appeasement of Romanian Hungarians and Hungary itself, so we would not seem bullies. That made us easily bullied.
Eventually, all of its neighbors introduced double citizenship, partly because of the same reasoning, but also because we had the largest minority of Hungarians and had set an example that could be used against them. We had cause to regret it because the Romanian Hungarian minority especially became very relevant to Hungarian politics, which attracted a lot of funding, political attention and political showmanship, like Orban’s frequent visits and speeches like he owns the place, like the widely criticized speech in the Băile Tuşnad Summer University with the so-called racist comments recently.
Once I read Poland managed to keep the central bank out. I must have gotten some bad info. Because to be awake enough to fight off the global bankers, that government would have to know that the real people to sue would be the group that manufactured the war. THE BANKERS