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From the New York Times:

Yes, Rich Cities Are Getting Richer. But That’s Not the Whole Story.
Even with widening geographic inequality, economic activity is less concentrated in a few top metro areas than in the past.

By Jed Kolko
Feb. 19, 2020

… The places getting richer aren’t the places getting bigger.

The metropolitan areas with the most rapid per-person income growth since 1980 have had only modest population increases. Think of the Bay Area, Boston and Fairfield County in Connecticut. Conversely, most places with huge population gains have had only modest income growth. They’re not getting much richer. Think of places like Las Vegas, Phoenix and Orlando.

One basic factor that I call the Dirt Gap is that inland metro areas can typically expand almost 360 degrees, while coastal cities can expand roughly 180 degrees (or less in the case of the cities of San Francisco and Boston). This keeps land prices down in inland cities.

Another aspect is that coastlines are usually a really nice amenity, with the exception of the Gulf Coast where the hurricane threat is so large that the big cities tend to be located inland — e.g., Houston replaced Galveston as the metropolis of the Texas Gulf Coast after 6000 Galvestonians died in the 1900 hurricane. Houston is 45 miles inland and 45 feet above sea level. (And it still gets flooded a lot.)

In other words, in almost all cases, economically successful places in America have gotten bigger or richer but not both. (There are also plenty of metros that have had slow population growth and slow income growth, like Detroit, Cleveland, Oklahoma City and Rochester, N.Y.)

What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong? Does Dallas-Fort Worth just overwhelm everything in the region?

Those rare exceptions with big growth in both per-person income and population include Austin, Texas; Raleigh, N.C.; and Provo-Orem, Utah, as well as the smaller metros of Naples, Fla., and Fayetteville, Ark. (home of Walmart). But the largest of these, Austin, still ranked only 27th among metros in total income in 2018 even after many boom years.

Austin is still only the 30th largest metropolitan statistical area in the U.S., even though when I was at Rice U. in Houston in the 1970s, everybody agreed that Austin was the nicest city in Texas. It has some scenery compared to most of urban Texas being dead flat. Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.

Among the 10 metros with the largest economies today, not one is getting both much richer and much bigger. In fact, in the past year the three metros at the top — New York, Los Angeles and Chicago — all lost population.

 
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  1. I admit it Steve, your Bloomberg pun was much better than mine.

  2. At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg’s height. But I was sadly mistaken.

    Bloomberg is shorter than John McCain, who looked like a dwarf next to Obama. (Why do you think McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate? He didn’t want to be overshadowed – literally – by his VP nominee.) That’s why he wants Hillary as his running mate.

    If Bloomberg wanted to put an end to Trump’s taunts, he would surround himself with tall men. “I’m short, but so what? I’m the one telling all of these other guys what to do.” But he’ll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.

    Hell, Putin is 5’4″, and nobody questions his alpha cred. But that’s only because he can use his KGB telekinesis techniques to snap your neck from across the room.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg’s height.
     
    You mean like how Bloomberg is a good advocate for small business owners.

    Or how he got rich by shorting the market.


    https://youtu.be/8bfyS-S-IJs?t=53
    , @Pericles
    I'm expecting Bloomberg to ask Robert Reich to be his VP.
    , @Lurker

    But he’ll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.
     
    Or at least photo ops like this:

    https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GettyImages-1043366346-e1538402387372-714x476.jpg

    Stop and frisk?
  3. Sounds like people are moving to warmer climes, thanks to air conditioning. I read the other day Krasnodar and Sochi are the fastest growing Russian cities. I think there is also a tendency for people to forget how unpleasant very hot summers can be. My mother’s cousin taught in Provence, she went back to Sweden during the summer as she couldn’t take the heat.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Sochi has pretty nice sea and mountain geography, kind of like, what, Genoa or Seattle?
    , @dearieme
    We have a French friend who grew up in Provence. She couldn't bear the summers and moved to England where she spent her whole working life. She's now retired to northern France - climate much like southern England but near to family.

    At a party we met an Englishman who spends eight months of the year in southern Spain but returns to England to avoid the Spanish summer. How agreeable to be able to afford this.
  4. I would also guess that improved transport and communication technology means the need for industries to cluster has declined.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    And yet they do.
  5. I thought this post was going to be about Bloomberg.

    • LOL: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    Umm...and who would be American Snow White?
    , @Known Fact
    Me too -- or perhaps some new study questioning the conventional wisdom that tall people generally make more money
    , @Ozymandias
    Oh, come on! Steve would never stoop that low.
  6. @LondonBob
    Sounds like people are moving to warmer climes, thanks to air conditioning. I read the other day Krasnodar and Sochi are the fastest growing Russian cities. I think there is also a tendency for people to forget how unpleasant very hot summers can be. My mother's cousin taught in Provence, she went back to Sweden during the summer as she couldn't take the heat.

    Sochi has pretty nice sea and mountain geography, kind of like, what, Genoa or Seattle?

  7. @LondonBob
    I would also guess that improved transport and communication technology means the need for industries to cluster has declined.

    And yet they do.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    A lot of functions have been outsourced. Looking at finance almost all will have a head office in the City or Canary Wharf but then a lot will be outsourced to satellite offices from Belfast to Birmingham to Bournemouth, and those are just in the Britain rather than overseas. Information also allows big shot fund managers to set up shop in Surrey, the equivalent Conneticut, rather than have the hassle of commuting.
    , @Hemid
    As the practical need has plummeted, the signalling "need" has spiked.

    Wastefulness, rootlessness, and obedience are the corporate virtues.
  8. @Steve Sailer
    And yet they do.

    A lot of functions have been outsourced. Looking at finance almost all will have a head office in the City or Canary Wharf but then a lot will be outsourced to satellite offices from Belfast to Birmingham to Bournemouth, and those are just in the Britain rather than overseas. Information also allows big shot fund managers to set up shop in Surrey, the equivalent Conneticut, rather than have the hassle of commuting.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    More and more US hedge funds are moving to Florida.
  9. @IHTG
    I thought this post was going to be about Bloomberg.

    Umm…and who would be American Snow White?

  10. Large cities used to reduce population because of disease outbreaks; now it’s because people can’t afford children.
    A tech working on a piece of equipment told us she was glad she moved to Austin. She lived in Seattle before. The rent is less than half of what it was before, and the population isn’t “All tech guys from the Midwest in expensive cars (pretends to be driving while looking down at phone) and they’re dicks.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The rent is less than half of what it was before, and the population isn’t “All tech guys from the Midwest in expensive cars (pretends to be driving while looking down at phone) and they’re dicks.”
     
    Wouldn’t a man from the Midwest be about the best stock for an American woman to mate with?
  11. Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.

    Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville – the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they’re more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    "the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas"

    Many Scots-Irish migrated to Texas after the Civil War. The Comanche Wars predated the Civil War, but the mostly dirt-poor ex-Confederate soldiers joined the fight against the Comanche. Killing Indians instead of Yankees.
    , @Muggles
    >>Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville – the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they’re more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.<<

    Yes, my people are very dangerous. Just ask Hadrian and the Romans (if you could). I also have some German DNA so I don't like to roll until I have lots of tanks ready.
  12. OKC is an interesting question. Very cheap cost of living, major sports franchises that have done very well recently, lots of dillitante hydrocarbon princesses and princes to support eg an arts scene, amiable weather. They have a pleasant RiverWalk area and an amazing botanical park.
    OK has some pretty Byzantine liquor laws compared to eg Texas, and I think that has to be a factor in their de deficit of “cool”

  13. It also occurs to me that , despite the great wealth in our coastal cities, the most desirable neighborhoods were built long ago by much poorer ( and less diverse) people. Today’s mega rich either buy the homes of yesterday’s affluent, live in towers hundreds of feet above the street or build secluded estates. No new ‘neighborhoods’ are ever created. Is this because of the loss of social cohesion and trust in the new and more ‘diverse’ America that is the source of our strength?

    Odd that one can stand on the sidewalk a few feet from the homes of Gilded Age billionaires but try and get near the homes of today’s ( unless they bought a pre existing mansion). Even here you have people like Danielle Steel, who bought the Spreckel’s Mansion in San Francisco, planting an ugly 20 foot high hedge to conceal and block her home from the public.

  14. @LondonBob
    Sounds like people are moving to warmer climes, thanks to air conditioning. I read the other day Krasnodar and Sochi are the fastest growing Russian cities. I think there is also a tendency for people to forget how unpleasant very hot summers can be. My mother's cousin taught in Provence, she went back to Sweden during the summer as she couldn't take the heat.

    We have a French friend who grew up in Provence. She couldn’t bear the summers and moved to England where she spent her whole working life. She’s now retired to northern France – climate much like southern England but near to family.

    At a party we met an Englishman who spends eight months of the year in southern Spain but returns to England to avoid the Spanish summer. How agreeable to be able to afford this.

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @JMcG
    A really nice summer in Ireland is unparalleled; unfortunately it’s also vanishingly rare. I’ve been almost unbelievably fortunate with the weather there. The weather here in the eastern US seems to go straight from too cold and damp to too hot and humid. Sigh.
  15. @Stan Adams
    At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg's height. But I was sadly mistaken.

    Bloomberg is shorter than John McCain, who looked like a dwarf next to Obama. (Why do you think McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate? He didn't want to be overshadowed - literally - by his VP nominee.) That's why he wants Hillary as his running mate.

    If Bloomberg wanted to put an end to Trump's taunts, he would surround himself with tall men. "I'm short, but so what? I'm the one telling all of these other guys what to do." But he'll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.

    Hell, Putin is 5'4", and nobody questions his alpha cred. But that's only because he can use his KGB telekinesis techniques to snap your neck from across the room.

    At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg’s height.

    You mean like how Bloomberg is a good advocate for small business owners.

    Or how he got rich by shorting the market.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  16. The Universitycrats in the college towns of the Pioneer Valley (aka Happy Valley), Massachusetts seem to be doing well. There is, however, a lower order of servitors dwelling about who do not seem to be living as large.

    It is reflected in their politics.

  17. @Steve Sailer
    And yet they do.

    As the practical need has plummeted, the signalling “need” has spiked.

    Wastefulness, rootlessness, and obedience are the corporate virtues.

  18. In the same sense that Greenwich, Connecticut and the Harvard enrollment are barely growing.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Yeah, I don't know how to test the theory, but what is really going on here may be that the elite enclaves are walling and entrenching themselves, while torpedoing their rivals by diverting all the mass diversity that they welcome into the nation—but not into their zip code—toward their less organized competitors.

    So Boston and the Bay Area stay wealthy and relatively exclusive, but every step up in wealth in Phoenix and Orlando is offset by a no-English welfare mother and her violently procreative spawn. Ergo, those latter towns grow big but not up.
    , @Forbes
    In the same sense that Greenwich, Boston, NYC, SF have a defined city limit which constrains housing expansion/population growth--and helps keep real estate prices up, as demand exceeds supply. Income growth will, concomitantly,, increase under the same housing price discovery-supply exceeds demand phenomena.

    Unfortunately, journalists don't have a passing familiarity with Econ 101, much less the real world experience of observing the effects of scarcity and surplus.

    And WTF is the widening geographic inequality the NYT is talking about...

    People with bigger houses??
  19. @Stan Adams
    At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg's height. But I was sadly mistaken.

    Bloomberg is shorter than John McCain, who looked like a dwarf next to Obama. (Why do you think McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate? He didn't want to be overshadowed - literally - by his VP nominee.) That's why he wants Hillary as his running mate.

    If Bloomberg wanted to put an end to Trump's taunts, he would surround himself with tall men. "I'm short, but so what? I'm the one telling all of these other guys what to do." But he'll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.

    Hell, Putin is 5'4", and nobody questions his alpha cred. But that's only because he can use his KGB telekinesis techniques to snap your neck from across the room.

    I’m expecting Bloomberg to ask Robert Reich to be his VP.

    • Replies: @Sol
    Too bad Krugman is too tall.
  20. Anonymous[264] • Disclaimer says:

    Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.

    This is false and misleading, Steve. Scots Irish are highly cooperative. Witness their strong patriotism, high rates volunteerism in the military, and relatively low racial/ethnic chauvinism. Scots Irish may be “individualistic,” but they are also one of the most cooperative peoples on the planet.

    Perhaps “communal” or “communistic” was the word you were looking for.

    • Replies: @Fred C Dobbs
    They are cooperative in the foxhole. Not so much in the pub. I think they pretty much invented ".......Ohh yeah??? Well F*** You!!!!...." (and I say that as someone who is at least 1/4 Scots-Irish.)
  21. @IHTG
    I thought this post was going to be about Bloomberg.

    Me too — or perhaps some new study questioning the conventional wisdom that tall people generally make more money

  22. Paris has kept small because of a car ring that circle the city down to 105 km2. Wich makes it the most dense city in western world.

    Woke politician make everything they can to integrate the 2 millions parisians with the 9 millions people living outside.

    Paris also have 800 K people living in social housing. Without them the city would be one of the whitest and richest big city WW ….

  23. Dallas sells itself as having willed its way into existence through sheer chutzpah, despite having no inherent geographical reason for existence. The Trinity was never a navigable river (the chutzpah couldn’t quite make that happen). Dallas:
    * convinced the railroads to come through town
    * convinced the State Fair to settle in town
    * convinced the Federal Reserve to locate in town

    Thus it’s the Business Center of the Southwest which couldn’t have been predicted in 1900.

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.

    Corporations who are looking for:
    * lower cost of living thus lower payroll costs (e.g. South/ Sunbelt / Sand States)
    * no state income tax for the executives (Texas & Florida)
    * several flights a day to the branch offices anywhere in the U.S. in under four hours (Dallas or Chicago)?

    Find Dallas to be of the few places that satisfies all of those criteria.

    Neither Austin nor Oklahoma City was in the running to build another DFW airport decades ago, and even less so now.

    On top of being beautiful, Austin is also of course a College / Government town, thus Very Progressive and thus very attractive to tech companies who need someplace to put their SJW employees (who are better paid and not as concerned about Austin’s higher housing costs, as compared to the cubicle drones in Dallas-Fort Worth).

    Oklahoma is more firmly Red than the Texas metros, thus more attractive to Middle American Radicals, but less dominated by the Elite / Minority coalition than, say, Dallas.

    Dallas doesn’t have the humidity & hurricanes of Houston, though of course the summers are bad, along with hail, tornadoes, etc., and of course lacks natural beauty. But for the corporations and white collar workers who want Cheap Land, Low Taxes, Good Schools, etc. it ticks all the boxes.

    Frisco, Tex., as Steve has pointed out, is the high point of all this (at the moment), as the Republican Base settles there to raise kids.

    However, as Steve has also pointed out, the Vibrant Diversity which has already taken over the inner-ring suburbs e.g. Grand Prairie, Irving, Garland, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, etc., will eventually come for Frisco etc. too. It’s just a matter of time. But all that churn is good for the real estate business.

    Just Google “Inclusive Communities Project” for the Soros-type, Fed-supported NGO whose lawsuits ensure that every single suburban Whitopia in Texas is going to get the Diversity that it has coming… good and hard.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.
    , @Okie44
    I live in south central Oklahoma, near Oklahoma City, and when DFW airport opened in 1973, as an international hub airport, I remember it did seem like a kind of signal event, and it was a big part of what helped create the sense that “the metroplex” was on it’s way up, that it was a place that would grow and thrive.
    OKC has been helped a lot over the years by the presence of Tinker Air Force Base, which has provided a lot of good jobs due to other Air Force maintenance bases being consolidated into over the last 30 years or so.
    , @Desiderius
    My sister flipped her first house in Frisco to some Dot Indians establishing an exclusive enclave over a decade ago, nearly doubling her money. Dot Indians are a helluva lot more diverse than American blacks whose families have been here for centuries.
  24. Fayetteville, Arkansas, is a university town, progressive, vegan, intelligent, white, you name it. If you need to hire remote writers with the sensibility of New York City at a third the price, Fayetteville is the place.

  25. Isn’t this what you’d expect? In poorer areas developers buy up big houses and convert them into apartments. In richer areas they buy up apartments and convert them into mansions. What’s the point of being rich if you have to live in a 1,000 sq ft unit?

  26. @IHTG
    I thought this post was going to be about Bloomberg.

    Oh, come on! Steve would never stoop that low.

  27. @Stan Adams
    At first glance, I thought this post was going to include at least one joke about Bloomberg's height. But I was sadly mistaken.

    Bloomberg is shorter than John McCain, who looked like a dwarf next to Obama. (Why do you think McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate? He didn't want to be overshadowed - literally - by his VP nominee.) That's why he wants Hillary as his running mate.

    If Bloomberg wanted to put an end to Trump's taunts, he would surround himself with tall men. "I'm short, but so what? I'm the one telling all of these other guys what to do." But he'll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.

    Hell, Putin is 5'4", and nobody questions his alpha cred. But that's only because he can use his KGB telekinesis techniques to snap your neck from across the room.

    But he’ll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.

    Or at least photo ops like this:

    Stop and frisk?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Or stop and get frisky!
    , @Stan Adams
    Cute couple.

    The incident to which I was referring involved Sarkozy, not Macron. (Those French manlet politicans are hard to tell apart, aren't they?)

    https://www.cleveland.com/world/2009/09/claim_frances_nicolas_sarkozy.html

    PARIS -- From elevator shoes to step-up boxes behind podiums, and even his own tippy-toes, Nicolas Sarkozy and his handlers have tried to compensate for his height -- or lack thereof.

    Now, a factory worker's claim that she was chosen to stand near the French president during a photo shoot because she is short is making waves on the Internet -- and rankling Sarkozy's office.

    The brouhaha was sparked during a visit to an auto parts plant in Normandy last week in which Sarkozy laid out his support for industry and defended his controversial plan for a "carbon tax" to help the environment.

    About 20 employees in white work smocks were gathered to stand behind Sarkozy on a riser as he spoke to about 600 workers at the new Faurecia automotive parts production site in Caligny.

    "I've been told you were chosen on height criteria," a reporter for the Belgian TV network RTBF asked a dark-haired woman in the lineup. "Is that true?"

    "Yes, yes," she said.

    The reporter, Jean-Philippe Shaller, pressed on: "That you shouldn't be taller than the president?"

    "That's right," she replied, then nervously looked away as other white-suited employees looked on.
     
  28. Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas?

    Not sure about Austin proper, but the surrounding hill country is swamped with them. Austin was aesthetically pleasing up through the ’90s, and still is compared to most other Texas major cities. But its political leanings, high college student population, and increased congestion has made it less attractive to decent folk.

    Houston is only as big as it is because of job opportunities. Almost no one would want to live there otherwise.

  29. I’ve always thought this to be a significant advantage of London: it is a coastal port city, but it’s inland up a wriggly river so can expand pretty much 360 degrees into the countryside and with no mountains to impede that expansion. Best of both worlds.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Philadelphia is like that too, but it’s a dump.
  30. In fact, in the past year the three metros at the top — New York, Los Angeles and Chicago — all lost population.

    In fact, as of last year Chicago is no longer the nation’s third-largest metro! It’s Washington-Baltimore, and the SF-SJ Bay Area is coming up right behind.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area#List_of_combined_statistical_areas

    Some time in this new decade, Dallas and Houston will also pass Chicago, which will then be seventh or eighth, quite a comedown for the place that still likes to call itself the “Second City”.

    And when you consider that Baltimore hasn’t been growing at all, the rate for the Washington area is pretty scary. We also have to get used to the notion that the primary component of the Bay Area is SJ not SF, but I’m not really sure we should.

  31. @countenance
    In the same sense that Greenwich, Connecticut and the Harvard enrollment are barely growing.

    Yeah, I don’t know how to test the theory, but what is really going on here may be that the elite enclaves are walling and entrenching themselves, while torpedoing their rivals by diverting all the mass diversity that they welcome into the nation—but not into their zip code—toward their less organized competitors.

    So Boston and the Bay Area stay wealthy and relatively exclusive, but every step up in wealth in Phoenix and Orlando is offset by a no-English welfare mother and her violently procreative spawn. Ergo, those latter towns grow big but not up.

  32. coastlines are usually a really nice amenity

    Not after Glo Climate Change makes the sea level rise and floods it. Then again, the people with properties just inland from that will be the new beachfront and will make a killing.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_SGV
    This is why I want action against climate change and sea level rising. Keep the delusional leftists on the coasts, don't force them to move inland where I live.
  33. This time I got to search for “immig”, and I didn’t find it, just like Sailer never does. Immigration and kids of immigrants account for (almost?) all “American” population growth. They are economic emigrants, but not economic immigrants, that is, poor job prospects drive them out, but their value added is low, and their shear numbers depress their wages further. Combined, these facts mean that population growth is low wage population growth, so places that grow don’t get richer. Heavily-American cities do get richer.

  34. inland metro areas can typically expand almost 360 degrees

    That describes Minneapolis-St. Paul. Despite their horrific climate, the Twin Cities are a gigantic blob of humanity.

  35. What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong? Does Dallas-Fort Worth just overwhelm everything in the region?

    They’re clearly behind the times if their only major league franchise is the “Thunder”, and they think that’s “cool”. Come on, it wasn’t even cool anymore in 1979. Except in time-warped Florida for some reason.

    Dallas wised up and renamed its MLS team from the “Burn”, possibly the most ridiculous moniker ever in professional sports, to the staid “Dallas FC”. They were tired of being laughed at, I guess.

  36. @benjaminl
    Dallas sells itself as having willed its way into existence through sheer chutzpah, despite having no inherent geographical reason for existence. The Trinity was never a navigable river (the chutzpah couldn't quite make that happen). Dallas:
    * convinced the railroads to come through town
    * convinced the State Fair to settle in town
    * convinced the Federal Reserve to locate in town

    Thus it's the Business Center of the Southwest which couldn't have been predicted in 1900.

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.

    Corporations who are looking for:
    * lower cost of living thus lower payroll costs (e.g. South/ Sunbelt / Sand States)
    * no state income tax for the executives (Texas & Florida)
    * several flights a day to the branch offices anywhere in the U.S. in under four hours (Dallas or Chicago)?

    Find Dallas to be of the few places that satisfies all of those criteria.

    Neither Austin nor Oklahoma City was in the running to build another DFW airport decades ago, and even less so now.

    On top of being beautiful, Austin is also of course a College / Government town, thus Very Progressive and thus very attractive to tech companies who need someplace to put their SJW employees (who are better paid and not as concerned about Austin's higher housing costs, as compared to the cubicle drones in Dallas-Fort Worth).

    Oklahoma is more firmly Red than the Texas metros, thus more attractive to Middle American Radicals, but less dominated by the Elite / Minority coalition than, say, Dallas.

    Dallas doesn't have the humidity & hurricanes of Houston, though of course the summers are bad, along with hail, tornadoes, etc., and of course lacks natural beauty. But for the corporations and white collar workers who want Cheap Land, Low Taxes, Good Schools, etc. it ticks all the boxes.

    Frisco, Tex., as Steve has pointed out, is the high point of all this (at the moment), as the Republican Base settles there to raise kids.

    However, as Steve has also pointed out, the Vibrant Diversity which has already taken over the inner-ring suburbs e.g. Grand Prairie, Irving, Garland, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, etc., will eventually come for Frisco etc. too. It's just a matter of time. But all that churn is good for the real estate business.

    Just Google "Inclusive Communities Project" for the Soros-type, Fed-supported NGO whose lawsuits ensure that every single suburban Whitopia in Texas is going to get the Diversity that it has coming... good and hard.

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.

    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn’t be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark– Newark!– are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest’s Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they’re somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch– there is no in-between in which to build– decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    "Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug?"

    Because you don't want to have aeroplanes coming over your living room all the time creating engine noise? In Chicago, you can just tell "its your day" for the noise with plenty of traffic from the airports. Somedays it is peaceful with no airliners flying over.

    It also manifests itself in multipath television propagation. With the advent of digital HD television, your reception is killed whenever a plane flies nearby. I've been meaning to try a diversity TV antenna with two identical flat TV antennas with equal length coax feedlines into a CATV combiner to see if that will ameliorate the multipath effects.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    The inner city airports are indeed very convenient, Reg (Boston being another one), but for the older cities, especially coastal ones, there is no room to expand (for Boston, Reagan, and Giardia, it's the water too, even if you could buy up lots of expensive real estate.)

    I mean, in these places, there is no room to make the runways longer and keep clearways for the approaches and departures (noise is a whole 'nother issue). With those short runways, the heavy jets can not take off full of people and with enough fuel for Europe or, not to mention Asia. Boston is close enough for Europe for widebodies to get out, I think ...

    Those 757s (let's please not get into another argument over it, but it's A HELL OF AN AIRPLANE!) can do the trips to Europe, even from some of these short runways. Their short-field performance is excellent. However, the 75s are narrow-bodies, meaning the 1st class can be either very nice, but with only a few seats of the type taking up near 1/2 the cabin, or not as nice as those on the heavies. Those people sitting up front pay their share and more. You peons in steerage are covering some of the fuel, oil replenishment, and the blue juice, so eat your Chef Boy-ar-dee dinners and pipe down! ;-}

    The last thing is, with the United hub Denver being a great example, is that airport delays of most sorts are simply due to lack of runways. Atlanta has 5 || runways, with 2 for T/O and 3 for landings. When the weather is down, they can still get a lot of planes in, but even then, there are stoppages on the ground at the origins. That new (to me) airport in Denver has 6 long-ass runways, I think every one is a mile longer than the Reagan field 01/19. (OK, the length doesn't matter for this point.) Some of them don't even intersect - there is SO MUCH ROOM. I think I estimated the amount of concrete in the runways as about 2 MILLION yards^3 one time. I'm sure commenter Res can correct me, but I went ahead and found this - this is only for the one, longest runway (16,000 ft, i.e. over 3 statute miles long x 200 ft wide):


    The project scope included:

    890,000 square yards of 12 inches lime-treated sub-grade.
    890,000 square yards of 8 inches cement-treated base.
    865,000 square yards of 17 inch full strength concrete paving.

     

    I'm not sure what # 2 actually consists of, but even just the last portion gets you to over 400,000 cu-yards.

    DEN is so far out of town, you can only see Denver because it's the West, and there's not much haze. It must beat the heck out of the old Stapleton airport for getting as many planes in and out as you want. When it comes to concrete poured and soil leveled, it ought to be the 8th Wonder of the World, or whatever we are up to now.

    , @Forbes
    Actually, DIA is only 18 miles northeast of the old Stapleton airport. It was the early-mid 1980s proposal to build the replacement halfway to Kansas. IIRC, the initial site was about 60+ miles east of Denver. The Rocky Mountain ski resorts threw a fit--understandably so.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    Newark!– are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK.
     
    EWR is far easier to reach for anyone that is east of Manhattan. EWR is also far easier to traverse thanks to the monorail. The AirTrain at JFK has improved the situation there, but it is still not as convenient.

    Of course, becasue the EWR monorail is incredibly useful, the geniuses in government were making noise about shutting it down.

    Dulles is another national disaster. The terminal is like the portable trailers I attended 3rd grade in.

    , @B36
    "Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug?"

    It was a political feature: DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport. Of course, what used to be the boonies is otherwise now covered by corporate office buildings and upscale residential developments.
    , @AnotherDad

    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? ...

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.
     
    I've only been in Dulles for connection and thought the concourses were mediocre--tight, low celing, lame.

    But DIA is far and away my favorite place for connection. Big, light, airy concourses, easy to find out-of-the-way seating. Four huge N/S runways (and two more E/W). It handles huge traffic--a hub for United, Southwest, Frontier--easily. Excellent connections to the world. Easily expandable--if necessary they could push out north and build a D, E, F ... concourses. Huge economic win for Denver.

    All that's really required to build in the boonies is to build a fast train connection back into town--downtown and depending on the layout of your metro a few other places. Or express trains on existing metro lines. I think it doesn't happen as often as it should because there's a constituency of cab and shuttle companies that want to make a buck selling access, so you end up with low productivity employment. Done right you could even have Hong Kong experience, where you can check in luggage downtown--and it rides the train securely and you're done messing with it.

    ~~

    Of course, the more important solution ... lets stop importing more and more people and we won't need ever bigger and bigger infrastructure.
  37. Austin is achieving the double by attracting tech firms that can no longer function in overpriced & overtaxed California. Because the population surge was not planned for, traffic and other urban problems are rapidly becoming worse (1):

    Thinking of buying a house? Be ready to pay the price. The median list price for a home in Austin has increased more than 78 percent since December 2011, going from $210,000 to $375,000 in December of 2016 according to Zillow.

    A recent Texas A&M study said the city has the 10th worst traffic in the United States. The Texas Department of Transportation declared that the stretch of I-35 running through downtown Austin as being the second most congested roadway for regular drivers, and the most congested for truck drivers.

    PEACE 😇

    _______

    (1) https://www.sparefoot.com/moving/moving-to-austin-tx/why-you-shouldnt-move-to-austin/

  38. @countenance
    In the same sense that Greenwich, Connecticut and the Harvard enrollment are barely growing.

    In the same sense that Greenwich, Boston, NYC, SF have a defined city limit which constrains housing expansion/population growth–and helps keep real estate prices up, as demand exceeds supply. Income growth will, concomitantly,, increase under the same housing price discovery-supply exceeds demand phenomena.

    Unfortunately, journalists don’t have a passing familiarity with Econ 101, much less the real world experience of observing the effects of scarcity and surplus.

    And WTF is the widening geographic inequality the NYT is talking about…

    People with bigger houses??

  39. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    “Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug?”

    Because you don’t want to have aeroplanes coming over your living room all the time creating engine noise? In Chicago, you can just tell “its your day” for the noise with plenty of traffic from the airports. Somedays it is peaceful with no airliners flying over.

    It also manifests itself in multipath television propagation. With the advent of digital HD television, your reception is killed whenever a plane flies nearby. I’ve been meaning to try a diversity TV antenna with two identical flat TV antennas with equal length coax feedlines into a CATV combiner to see if that will ameliorate the multipath effects.

  40. The 50 worst cities in America. A lot of places that I would have kind of thought were good middle America places, but maybe not so much these days.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/13/50-worst-cities-to-live-in/35909271/

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Gainesville, FL, home of the Gators, has a high rate of poverty. I go there sometimes and I would never have guessed.

    Albuquerque has a lot of violent crime. When I went there many years ago, I thought it was rather charming.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Pretty sure that SLC and Albuquerque have meth trafficking issues feeding their crime issues. There was a reason that Breaking Bad was set in Albuquerque. Prescott, AZ is also known to have terrible issues with meth.

    Anything in the Rust Belt is considered terrible because we shipped all the jobs, industrial plants, and intellectual property to China decades ago, which is why say, Guangzhou is all shiny and new these days.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you're into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive. It's doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    No surprise Detroit is number one. They got so fed up with the hijinks of African-American mayors that they elected a white guy to try and fix it. He's actually making some progress. The other irony is that, in the Motor City, the roads are awful.

    It turns out that the pundits were wrong, the US can't stay wealthy by doing each other's laundry and writing each other fart apps for our smartphones.

    , @J.Ross
    >middle America
    They deliberately, programmatically destroyed that over decades, at the same time that they preserved de facto Apartheid suburbs for themselves.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "At least polygamy is legal."

    Multiple women does not seem ideal. I can barely handle one woman. Okay, I can't even handle one woman.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.
     
    Utah is the only state in which polygamy is unconstitutional.

    Or was, anyway.
  41. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    The inner city airports are indeed very convenient, Reg (Boston being another one), but for the older cities, especially coastal ones, there is no room to expand (for Boston, Reagan, and Giardia, it’s the water too, even if you could buy up lots of expensive real estate.)

    I mean, in these places, there is no room to make the runways longer and keep clearways for the approaches and departures (noise is a whole ‘nother issue). With those short runways, the heavy jets can not take off full of people and with enough fuel for Europe or, not to mention Asia. Boston is close enough for Europe for widebodies to get out, I think …

    Those 757s (let’s please not get into another argument over it, but it’s A HELL OF AN AIRPLANE!) can do the trips to Europe, even from some of these short runways. Their short-field performance is excellent. However, the 75s are narrow-bodies, meaning the 1st class can be either very nice, but with only a few seats of the type taking up near 1/2 the cabin, or not as nice as those on the heavies. Those people sitting up front pay their share and more. You peons in steerage are covering some of the fuel, oil replenishment, and the blue juice, so eat your Chef Boy-ar-dee dinners and pipe down! ;-}

    The last thing is, with the United hub Denver being a great example, is that airport delays of most sorts are simply due to lack of runways. Atlanta has 5 || runways, with 2 for T/O and 3 for landings. When the weather is down, they can still get a lot of planes in, but even then, there are stoppages on the ground at the origins. That new (to me) airport in Denver has 6 long-ass runways, I think every one is a mile longer than the Reagan field 01/19. (OK, the length doesn’t matter for this point.) Some of them don’t even intersect – there is SO MUCH ROOM. I think I estimated the amount of concrete in the runways as about 2 MILLION yards^3 one time. I’m sure commenter Res can correct me, but I went ahead and found this – this is only for the one, longest runway (16,000 ft, i.e. over 3 statute miles long x 200 ft wide):

    The project scope included:

    890,000 square yards of 12 inches lime-treated sub-grade.
    890,000 square yards of 8 inches cement-treated base.
    865,000 square yards of 17 inch full strength concrete paving.

    I’m not sure what # 2 actually consists of, but even just the last portion gets you to over 400,000 cu-yards.

    DEN is so far out of town, you can only see Denver because it’s the West, and there’s not much haze. It must beat the heck out of the old Stapleton airport for getting as many planes in and out as you want. When it comes to concrete poured and soil leveled, it ought to be the 8th Wonder of the World, or whatever we are up to now.

  42. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    Actually, DIA is only 18 miles northeast of the old Stapleton airport. It was the early-mid 1980s proposal to build the replacement halfway to Kansas. IIRC, the initial site was about 60+ miles east of Denver. The Rocky Mountain ski resorts threw a fit–understandably so.

  43. @LondonBob
    A lot of functions have been outsourced. Looking at finance almost all will have a head office in the City or Canary Wharf but then a lot will be outsourced to satellite offices from Belfast to Birmingham to Bournemouth, and those are just in the Britain rather than overseas. Information also allows big shot fund managers to set up shop in Surrey, the equivalent Conneticut, rather than have the hassle of commuting.

    More and more US hedge funds are moving to Florida.

    • Replies: @Tony
    What cities in Florida?
    , @Forbes
    That may be true, though historically Dallas has been #2 to NYC in hedge fund assets.
  44. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    Newark!– are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK.

    EWR is far easier to reach for anyone that is east of Manhattan. EWR is also far easier to traverse thanks to the monorail. The AirTrain at JFK has improved the situation there, but it is still not as convenient.

    Of course, becasue the EWR monorail is incredibly useful, the geniuses in government were making noise about shutting it down.

    Dulles is another national disaster. The terminal is like the portable trailers I attended 3rd grade in.

  45. @Jonathan Mason
    The 50 worst cities in America. A lot of places that I would have kind of thought were good middle America places, but maybe not so much these days.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/13/50-worst-cities-to-live-in/35909271/

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Gainesville, FL, home of the Gators, has a high rate of poverty. I go there sometimes and I would never have guessed.

    Albuquerque has a lot of violent crime. When I went there many years ago, I thought it was rather charming.

    Pretty sure that SLC and Albuquerque have meth trafficking issues feeding their crime issues. There was a reason that Breaking Bad was set in Albuquerque. Prescott, AZ is also known to have terrible issues with meth.

    Anything in the Rust Belt is considered terrible because we shipped all the jobs, industrial plants, and intellectual property to China decades ago, which is why say, Guangzhou is all shiny and new these days.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you’re into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive. It’s doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    No surprise Detroit is number one. They got so fed up with the hijinks of African-American mayors that they elected a white guy to try and fix it. He’s actually making some progress. The other irony is that, in the Motor City, the roads are awful.

    It turns out that the pundits were wrong, the US can’t stay wealthy by doing each other’s laundry and writing each other fart apps for our smartphones.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you’re into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive.
     
    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.

    It’s doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.
     
    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.

    https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79119_79147_82106---,00.html
    https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/10002.html

    A pile of snow in the Adirondacks or Alleganys beats an inch of ice all over Long Island. I can't imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "writing each other fart apps for our smartphones"

    Is this a market I can get into? And by writing do you mean jokes or skits or something?
    , @RAZ
    Read that the real reason Alb was chosen was for the incentives NM was willing to give for them to film there. But apparently it's not a stretch to think it's a place for meth production.

    My son was looking at an opportunity in Alb and I did caution him that there is some truth to Breaking Bad's depiction of Alb. I used to travel there years ago for work and liked going there since it was very different from anywhere else I was traveling.
  46. Today’s Daily Mail has an article about the 50 richest towns or cities in the US.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8025415/Americas-50-richest-towns-2020.html

    Looking through the list, the impression is that none of them are in a real sense a “city”, but are just affluent suburbs that are classified as cities for administrative reasons, but hardly in competition with New York, Berlin, Paris, and Milan as cities per se.

    They don’t have city amenities such as airports, parks, or world class museums.

    In fact I don’t think I have ever heard of any of them. Palm Beach, Florida did catch my eye, but this is just a wealthy beach suburb on strip of sand outside of the so-called Intrcoastal Waterway, and is separate from the much better known West Palm Beach on the mainland, which is also home to a lot of wealthy individuals such as D. Trump and formerly J. Epstein, but has an average income of less than 20% of the Palm Beach average.

    Garbage in, garbage out–that is what you get with statistics of this kind for the most part. It appears that the most affluent communities are linked with certain occupations, for example small enclaves inhabited by a concentration of highly paid software development in California and financiers and bankers in the area around New York.

    Many wealthy professional golfers and entertainers live in Florida, due to the fact that several PGA tournaments occur there, but even more due to the fact the the state has no state income tax. However their earnings have little effect in pulling up the overall average in Florida.

    On the other hand, if Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos came to live in my county in Florida, it would be on average the wealthiest county in the US.

    More useful statistics would look at the average pay for core community employees such as teachers, cops, nurses, supermarket cashiers and bank tellers since these occupations exist in every community that is any any real sense a community and should relate these figures to average home prices to give any useful information.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There's convenient data provided on personal income levels in the various metropolitan commuter belts. There are just shy of 400 belts defined by census enumerators, and these encompass about 85% of the total population. A current rank ordering of the top 40 would be thus:

    Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT
    Midland, TX
    San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA
    San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA
    Naples-Marco Island, FL
    Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH
    Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL
    New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA
    Barnstable Town, MA
    Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV *
    Casper, WY
    Napa, CA
    Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA
    Boulder, CO *
    Trenton-Princeton, NJ
    Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA
    Hartford-East Hartford-Middletown, CT
    Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR
    Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD
    Anchorage, AK
    Charlottesville, VA *
    Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA
    Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO *
    Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI
    Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD
    Santa Maria-Santa Barbara, CA
    Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA
    Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA
    Manchester-Nashua, NH
    Bismarck, ND
    Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI
    San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA
    Ocean City, NJ
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Norwich-New London, CT
    Madison, WI
    Urban Honolulu, HI
    Burlington-South Burlington, VT
    Ann Arbor, MI

    Per capita personal income in these belts ranges from 1.08x the national mean to 2.17x the national mean.

    Several of these it's a passable guess benefit from natural resource bonanzas which aren't necessarily manifest in the local standard of living (see Sioux Falls, Bismarck, Caspar, and Midland). For some, there listing as a distinct belt is puzzling, because they're cheek-by jowl with another belt or within ready commuting distance (Ann Arbor, Trenton, Boulder, Ocean City). Some don't have a core settlement of any size (Ocean City, Barnstable). These caveats aside, there are cities of every dimension on that list. Not every region is, however. The inverted - T which runs through the Sunbelt and the Plains isn't represented absent the hotspots created by extractive industries. Some researchers for one of the Federal Reserve Banks did produce a working papers some years back which claimed that this section of the country is out of sync with the business cycle in the rest of the country.
  47. @dearieme
    We have a French friend who grew up in Provence. She couldn't bear the summers and moved to England where she spent her whole working life. She's now retired to northern France - climate much like southern England but near to family.

    At a party we met an Englishman who spends eight months of the year in southern Spain but returns to England to avoid the Spanish summer. How agreeable to be able to afford this.

    A really nice summer in Ireland is unparalleled; unfortunately it’s also vanishingly rare. I’ve been almost unbelievably fortunate with the weather there. The weather here in the eastern US seems to go straight from too cold and damp to too hot and humid. Sigh.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  48. @Cowboy shaw
    I've always thought this to be a significant advantage of London: it is a coastal port city, but it's inland up a wriggly river so can expand pretty much 360 degrees into the countryside and with no mountains to impede that expansion. Best of both worlds.

    Philadelphia is like that too, but it’s a dump.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  49. @Jonathan Mason
    The 50 worst cities in America. A lot of places that I would have kind of thought were good middle America places, but maybe not so much these days.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/13/50-worst-cities-to-live-in/35909271/

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Gainesville, FL, home of the Gators, has a high rate of poverty. I go there sometimes and I would never have guessed.

    Albuquerque has a lot of violent crime. When I went there many years ago, I thought it was rather charming.

    >middle America
    They deliberately, programmatically destroyed that over decades, at the same time that they preserved de facto Apartheid suburbs for themselves.

  50. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    “Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug?”

    It was a political feature: DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport. Of course, what used to be the boonies is otherwise now covered by corporate office buildings and upscale residential developments.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport.
     
    Why can't each city have its own airport? Actually, they do.

    https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/

    http://meacham.com/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100527123924/http://www.arlingtontx.gov/aviation/
  51. @RichardTaylor

    Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.
     
    Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville - the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they're more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.

    “the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas”

    Many Scots-Irish migrated to Texas after the Civil War. The Comanche Wars predated the Civil War, but the mostly dirt-poor ex-Confederate soldiers joined the fight against the Comanche. Killing Indians instead of Yankees.

  52. @RichardTaylor

    Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.
     
    Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville - the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they're more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.

    >>Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville – the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they’re more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.<<

    Yes, my people are very dangerous. Just ask Hadrian and the Romans (if you could). I also have some German DNA so I don't like to roll until I have lots of tanks ready.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I also have some German DNA so I don't like to roll until I have lots of tanks ready.
     
    And some 88s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_18/36/37/41

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Flak18-36.jpg/600px-Flak18-36.jpg
  53. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Pretty sure that SLC and Albuquerque have meth trafficking issues feeding their crime issues. There was a reason that Breaking Bad was set in Albuquerque. Prescott, AZ is also known to have terrible issues with meth.

    Anything in the Rust Belt is considered terrible because we shipped all the jobs, industrial plants, and intellectual property to China decades ago, which is why say, Guangzhou is all shiny and new these days.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you're into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive. It's doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    No surprise Detroit is number one. They got so fed up with the hijinks of African-American mayors that they elected a white guy to try and fix it. He's actually making some progress. The other irony is that, in the Motor City, the roads are awful.

    It turns out that the pundits were wrong, the US can't stay wealthy by doing each other's laundry and writing each other fart apps for our smartphones.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you’re into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive.

    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.

    It’s doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.

    https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79119_79147_82106&#8212;,00.html
    https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/10002.html

    A pile of snow in the Adirondacks or Alleganys beats an inch of ice all over Long Island. I can’t imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.
     
    All of these activities require varying degree of spending on winter clothing and specialized equipment, even if one is able to find the items used. There are a lot of folks in those areas that don't have much money to spare. Free gear is usually worth what you pay for it.

    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.
     
    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

    I can’t imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.
     
    Nordic? No, there are plenty of public access trails. Alpine adult day tickets start around $50, which is significant for a lot of people.
  54. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Pretty sure that SLC and Albuquerque have meth trafficking issues feeding their crime issues. There was a reason that Breaking Bad was set in Albuquerque. Prescott, AZ is also known to have terrible issues with meth.

    Anything in the Rust Belt is considered terrible because we shipped all the jobs, industrial plants, and intellectual property to China decades ago, which is why say, Guangzhou is all shiny and new these days.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you're into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive. It's doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    No surprise Detroit is number one. They got so fed up with the hijinks of African-American mayors that they elected a white guy to try and fix it. He's actually making some progress. The other irony is that, in the Motor City, the roads are awful.

    It turns out that the pundits were wrong, the US can't stay wealthy by doing each other's laundry and writing each other fart apps for our smartphones.

    “writing each other fart apps for our smartphones”

    Is this a market I can get into? And by writing do you mean jokes or skits or something?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    I'd say the fart app market is pretty saturated:

    https://play.google.com/store/search?q=fart&c=apps&hl=en_US

    By writing, I meant, "learn to code."
  55. From Steve’s top article:

    >>even though when I was at Rice U. in Houston in the 1970s, everybody agreed that Austin was the nicest city in Texas.<<

    I graduated from there in the mid 70s. Wonder if we ever bumped into each other there?

    I lived off campus, mostly rode an old bike w/ backpack long before it was fashionable. Was poor and lived in the Hermann Park adjacent mostly black neighborhood w/ my hippie libertarian friends in our Waterhole commune. Not a typical Rice undergrad, but tuition was free.

    I agree w/ the comment re: Austin. Envied the UT students there. But also because they had co-eds. At Rice if you recall, males outnumbered females 4 to 1. Not so good. Plus some of them were lesbians, including a couple of subsequent Houston mayors. Better now, I'm told.

    • Replies: @c matt

    Envied the UT students there. But also because they had co-eds.
     
    I will have to give you that. I have never encountered a higher concentration of attractive women than the few square miles within N. Lamar Blvd., w. 15th street, I-35 and 38th Street.
  56. @Jonathan Mason
    The 50 worst cities in America. A lot of places that I would have kind of thought were good middle America places, but maybe not so much these days.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/13/50-worst-cities-to-live-in/35909271/

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Gainesville, FL, home of the Gators, has a high rate of poverty. I go there sometimes and I would never have guessed.

    Albuquerque has a lot of violent crime. When I went there many years ago, I thought it was rather charming.

    “At least polygamy is legal.”

    Multiple women does not seem ideal. I can barely handle one woman. Okay, I can’t even handle one woman.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  57. What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong?

    Only two things come from OKC.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    OK, I'll bite. What two things come from OKC?
    , @Art Deco
    Not a whole lot. Oklahoma had a demographic shake-out during the period running from 1930 to 1960, presumably a response to an acute problem (the Dustbowl, ca. 1935) and an abiding problem (labor release in agriculture). Since 1960, Oklahoma's share of the national population has remained between 1.2% and 1.3% of the total. There are five counties which house the state's three cities. The share of the state's population to be found in these five counties went from 12% in 1910 to 40% in 1960. It has in increments increased to 50% since 1960. Performance not spectacular, but certainly not under par.
  58. @SunBakedSuburb
    "writing each other fart apps for our smartphones"

    Is this a market I can get into? And by writing do you mean jokes or skits or something?

    I’d say the fart app market is pretty saturated:

    https://play.google.com/store/search?q=fart&c=apps&hl=en_US

    By writing, I meant, “learn to code.”

  59. @B36
    "Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug?"

    It was a political feature: DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport. Of course, what used to be the boonies is otherwise now covered by corporate office buildings and upscale residential developments.

    DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport.

    Why can’t each city have its own airport? Actually, they do.

    https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/

    http://meacham.com/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100527123924/http://www.arlingtontx.gov/aviation/

    • Replies: @B36
    Of course they do and they did. Sort of interesting history: there was an extreme rivalry between the 2 cities in the past that was played out in great part by their respective airports. When JFK made his ill fated Texas campaign swing, he stopped first in Fort Worth to speechify, spent the night at the Hilton, and the next morning was driven out to the Fort Worth airport (Great Southwest) to take off and fly, all of 10 minutes (literally), to Love Field (and then drive on by the School Book Depository). Politically he had to pay homage to both airports.

    It was in the aftermath of this that the cities came together to create DFW Airport, which is physically the size of Manhattan, is now the fourth busiest airport in the country, and which has turbocharged the growth of what by some measures is the now 4th largest metropolitan area in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas#United_States
  60. @Jonathan Mason
    The 50 worst cities in America. A lot of places that I would have kind of thought were good middle America places, but maybe not so much these days.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/13/50-worst-cities-to-live-in/35909271/

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Gainesville, FL, home of the Gators, has a high rate of poverty. I go there sometimes and I would never have guessed.

    Albuquerque has a lot of violent crime. When I went there many years ago, I thought it was rather charming.

    Like Salt Lake City has a high crime rate? At least polygamy is legal.

    Utah is the only state in which polygamy is unconstitutional.

    Or was, anyway.

  61. Did LA really lose population?

    A lot of immigrants there aren’t good about keeping their documents in order, and have a relatively high birth rate.

    LA may have lost documented population; but how busy is the sewage treatment plant?

    • LOL: Autochthon
  62. @Reg Cæsar

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you’re into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive.
     
    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.

    It’s doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.
     
    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.

    https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79119_79147_82106---,00.html
    https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/10002.html

    A pile of snow in the Adirondacks or Alleganys beats an inch of ice all over Long Island. I can't imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.

    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.

    All of these activities require varying degree of spending on winter clothing and specialized equipment, even if one is able to find the items used. There are a lot of folks in those areas that don’t have much money to spare. Free gear is usually worth what you pay for it.

    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.

    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

    I can’t imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.

    Nordic? No, there are plenty of public access trails. Alpine adult day tickets start around $50, which is significant for a lot of people.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Exactly. Snowmobiling is expensive. Alpine skiing is expensive if you have a family. I loved Nordic skiing when I did it, but it was cheap because I was young and single. None of the snow sports is cheap the way that basketball or soccer or cheap. At the pick up level anyway.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

     

    It's just water. Shoveling is good exercise. Builds up the arms and back.
  63. @Jonathan Mason
    Today's Daily Mail has an article about the 50 richest towns or cities in the US.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8025415/Americas-50-richest-towns-2020.html

    Looking through the list, the impression is that none of them are in a real sense a "city", but are just affluent suburbs that are classified as cities for administrative reasons, but hardly in competition with New York, Berlin, Paris, and Milan as cities per se.

    They don't have city amenities such as airports, parks, or world class museums.

    In fact I don't think I have ever heard of any of them. Palm Beach, Florida did catch my eye, but this is just a wealthy beach suburb on strip of sand outside of the so-called Intrcoastal Waterway, and is separate from the much better known West Palm Beach on the mainland, which is also home to a lot of wealthy individuals such as D. Trump and formerly J. Epstein, but has an average income of less than 20% of the Palm Beach average.

    Garbage in, garbage out--that is what you get with statistics of this kind for the most part. It appears that the most affluent communities are linked with certain occupations, for example small enclaves inhabited by a concentration of highly paid software development in California and financiers and bankers in the area around New York.

    Many wealthy professional golfers and entertainers live in Florida, due to the fact that several PGA tournaments occur there, but even more due to the fact the the state has no state income tax. However their earnings have little effect in pulling up the overall average in Florida.

    On the other hand, if Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos came to live in my county in Florida, it would be on average the wealthiest county in the US.

    More useful statistics would look at the average pay for core community employees such as teachers, cops, nurses, supermarket cashiers and bank tellers since these occupations exist in every community that is any any real sense a community and should relate these figures to average home prices to give any useful information.

    There’s convenient data provided on personal income levels in the various metropolitan commuter belts. There are just shy of 400 belts defined by census enumerators, and these encompass about 85% of the total population. A current rank ordering of the top 40 would be thus:

    Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT
    Midland, TX
    San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA
    San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA
    Naples-Marco Island, FL
    Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH
    Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL
    New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA
    Barnstable Town, MA
    Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV *
    Casper, WY
    Napa, CA
    Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA
    Boulder, CO *
    Trenton-Princeton, NJ
    Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA
    Hartford-East Hartford-Middletown, CT
    Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR
    Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD
    Anchorage, AK
    Charlottesville, VA *
    Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA
    Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO *
    Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI
    Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD
    Santa Maria-Santa Barbara, CA
    Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA
    Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA
    Manchester-Nashua, NH
    Bismarck, ND
    Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI
    San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA
    Ocean City, NJ
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Norwich-New London, CT
    Madison, WI
    Urban Honolulu, HI
    Burlington-South Burlington, VT
    Ann Arbor, MI

    Per capita personal income in these belts ranges from 1.08x the national mean to 2.17x the national mean.

    Several of these it’s a passable guess benefit from natural resource bonanzas which aren’t necessarily manifest in the local standard of living (see Sioux Falls, Bismarck, Caspar, and Midland). For some, there listing as a distinct belt is puzzling, because they’re cheek-by jowl with another belt or within ready commuting distance (Ann Arbor, Trenton, Boulder, Ocean City). Some don’t have a core settlement of any size (Ocean City, Barnstable). These caveats aside, there are cities of every dimension on that list. Not every region is, however. The inverted – T which runs through the Sunbelt and the Plains isn’t represented absent the hotspots created by extractive industries. Some researchers for one of the Federal Reserve Banks did produce a working papers some years back which claimed that this section of the country is out of sync with the business cycle in the rest of the country.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Ocean City NJ is fed by suburban Philadelphia money and by NYC money.
  64. @Redneck farmer
    More and more US hedge funds are moving to Florida.

    What cities in Florida?

    • Replies: @A123
    Hedge Funds and other specialty finance. That would be why "Naples-Marco Island, FL" is #5. There is virtually no land and the riff-raff is aggressively priced out.

    https://www.zillow.com/marco-island-fl/

    I believe this is where former DNC Chair, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, obtained her family wealth. Though I'm not 100% sure of that.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Redneck farmer
    Jupiter, for one. Local financial services guy on the radio spends about half the year down there. He was part of the group that lobbied them to move there 5-10 years ago.
  65. @Tony
    What cities in Florida?

    Hedge Funds and other specialty finance. That would be why “Naples-Marco Island, FL” is #5. There is virtually no land and the riff-raff is aggressively priced out.

    https://www.zillow.com/marco-island-fl/

    I believe this is where former DNC Chair, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, obtained her family wealth. Though I’m not 100% sure of that.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Lot
    Man are those south florida houses tacky and cheap looking, despite their high prices.

    The “global warming is a scam” message seems to have penetrated as they look about 8 inches above sea level.

    Southern California isn’t a model of tastefulness either, but not nearly so bad. Our local “rich old people island” is Coronado, and looks much nicer.
  66. @Redneck farmer
    More and more US hedge funds are moving to Florida.

    That may be true, though historically Dallas has been #2 to NYC in hedge fund assets.

  67. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.
     
    All of these activities require varying degree of spending on winter clothing and specialized equipment, even if one is able to find the items used. There are a lot of folks in those areas that don't have much money to spare. Free gear is usually worth what you pay for it.

    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.
     
    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

    I can’t imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.
     
    Nordic? No, there are plenty of public access trails. Alpine adult day tickets start around $50, which is significant for a lot of people.

    Exactly. Snowmobiling is expensive. Alpine skiing is expensive if you have a family. I loved Nordic skiing when I did it, but it was cheap because I was young and single. None of the snow sports is cheap the way that basketball or soccer or cheap. At the pick up level anyway.

  68. @Art Deco
    There's convenient data provided on personal income levels in the various metropolitan commuter belts. There are just shy of 400 belts defined by census enumerators, and these encompass about 85% of the total population. A current rank ordering of the top 40 would be thus:

    Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT
    Midland, TX
    San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA
    San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA
    Naples-Marco Island, FL
    Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH
    Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL
    New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA
    Barnstable Town, MA
    Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV *
    Casper, WY
    Napa, CA
    Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA
    Boulder, CO *
    Trenton-Princeton, NJ
    Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA
    Hartford-East Hartford-Middletown, CT
    Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR
    Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD
    Anchorage, AK
    Charlottesville, VA *
    Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA
    Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO *
    Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI
    Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD
    Santa Maria-Santa Barbara, CA
    Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA
    Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA
    Manchester-Nashua, NH
    Bismarck, ND
    Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI
    San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA
    Ocean City, NJ
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Norwich-New London, CT
    Madison, WI
    Urban Honolulu, HI
    Burlington-South Burlington, VT
    Ann Arbor, MI

    Per capita personal income in these belts ranges from 1.08x the national mean to 2.17x the national mean.

    Several of these it's a passable guess benefit from natural resource bonanzas which aren't necessarily manifest in the local standard of living (see Sioux Falls, Bismarck, Caspar, and Midland). For some, there listing as a distinct belt is puzzling, because they're cheek-by jowl with another belt or within ready commuting distance (Ann Arbor, Trenton, Boulder, Ocean City). Some don't have a core settlement of any size (Ocean City, Barnstable). These caveats aside, there are cities of every dimension on that list. Not every region is, however. The inverted - T which runs through the Sunbelt and the Plains isn't represented absent the hotspots created by extractive industries. Some researchers for one of the Federal Reserve Banks did produce a working papers some years back which claimed that this section of the country is out of sync with the business cycle in the rest of the country.

    Ocean City NJ is fed by suburban Philadelphia money and by NYC money.

  69. @The Alarmist

    What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong?
     
    Only two things come from OKC.

    OK, I’ll bite. What two things come from OKC?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lGs-tXWpR4
  70. @Reg Cæsar

    DFW had to be more or less exactly midway between the 2 cities because they are the equal owners of the airport.
     
    Why can't each city have its own airport? Actually, they do.

    https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/

    http://meacham.com/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100527123924/http://www.arlingtontx.gov/aviation/

    Of course they do and they did. Sort of interesting history: there was an extreme rivalry between the 2 cities in the past that was played out in great part by their respective airports. When JFK made his ill fated Texas campaign swing, he stopped first in Fort Worth to speechify, spent the night at the Hilton, and the next morning was driven out to the Fort Worth airport (Great Southwest) to take off and fly, all of 10 minutes (literally), to Love Field (and then drive on by the School Book Depository). Politically he had to pay homage to both airports.

    It was in the aftermath of this that the cities came together to create DFW Airport, which is physically the size of Manhattan, is now the fourth busiest airport in the country, and which has turbocharged the growth of what by some measures is the now 4th largest metropolitan area in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas#United_States

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.
  71. @Pericles
    I'm expecting Bloomberg to ask Robert Reich to be his VP.

    Too bad Krugman is too tall.

  72. @B36
    Of course they do and they did. Sort of interesting history: there was an extreme rivalry between the 2 cities in the past that was played out in great part by their respective airports. When JFK made his ill fated Texas campaign swing, he stopped first in Fort Worth to speechify, spent the night at the Hilton, and the next morning was driven out to the Fort Worth airport (Great Southwest) to take off and fly, all of 10 minutes (literally), to Love Field (and then drive on by the School Book Depository). Politically he had to pay homage to both airports.

    It was in the aftermath of this that the cities came together to create DFW Airport, which is physically the size of Manhattan, is now the fourth busiest airport in the country, and which has turbocharged the growth of what by some measures is the now 4th largest metropolitan area in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas#United_States

    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, … Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    • Replies: @B36
    I'd have to defer to that great Swedish American Texan Erik Jonsson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Erik_Jonsson
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    "Cincinnati" airport, CVG, is in a whole 'nother state, Steve - Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that's not why it's a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn't really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you're a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren't going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    , @Bubba
    Pittsburgh. Definitely Pittsburgh. Allegheny/US Air Airlines bankruptcies and it’s failure as a hub make it a giant, money losing white elephant. Yet Allegheny county officials want to spend another $1.1 billion to “modernize” it.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/08/18/pittsburgh-international-airport-terminal-pit-gates-american-airlines/stories/201708180107

    https://patch.com/pennsylvania/pittsburgh/inside-pittsburgh-airports-1-1-billion-new-terminal-project
    , @CJ
    Mirabel Airport outside Montreal flopped so badly that all passenger flights moved back to Dorval.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montreal-s-abandoned-mirabel-airport-too-costly-to-repurpose-1.1967712
    , @Stan Adams
    One such proposed facility was the Everglades Jetport. Located halfway between Miami and Naples, it would have been the largest airport in the world:
    https://www.nps.gov/bicy/learn/historyculture/miami-jetport.htm

    Of the six planned runways, only one was built before the project was nixed by the Nixon administration due to environmental concerns. It's still used today for training flights.

    Airport officials have considered other sites over the years. One area in particular, off of U.S. 27 near the Dade-Broward line, was given serious consideration in the late '80s. But all of the proposals have been defeated. The existing Miami International Airport, located a few miles west of downtown, has had to suffice.

    Completely landlocked, MIA has been considered obsolete since the 1960s. The terminal dates back to 1959, with the newer portions having been grafted onto the older structure like body parts on a Frankenstein.

    Even the rebuilt areas largely conform to the late-'50s footprint. The ceilings in the baggage-claim and ticketing areas are no higher than when Ike was in the White House. The boarding area seen in this clip dates back to the Carter administration. It has been extensively remodeled - the moldy carpets are gone and the old train cars have been completely replaced - but the basic layout is exactly the same. The roped-off escalators at 2:25 once lead to an outdoor "sun deck" that was closed when the wood rotted beyond repair:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reDpKCP4l7I

    Still, I have a sneaky admiration for the place. I've flown out of MIA so many times that I can navigate it in my sleep. Walking through the terminal, one can feel the ghosts of Eastern, Pan Am, National, Braniff, TWA, Northwest, USAir, and dozens of other long-dead carriers. (In some spots, one can still see the physical ticket counters that were in use when those airlines still ferried passengers.) And with so many international travelers - mostly Latin American, but many European - the opportunities for people-watching are endless.
  73. @Lurker

    But he’ll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.
     
    Or at least photo ops like this:

    https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GettyImages-1043366346-e1538402387372-714x476.jpg

    Stop and frisk?

    Or stop and get frisky!

  74. @Hippopotamusdrome


    coastlines are usually a really nice amenity

     

    Not after Glo Climate Change makes the sea level rise and floods it. Then again, the people with properties just inland from that will be the new beachfront and will make a killing.

    This is why I want action against climate change and sea level rising. Keep the delusional leftists on the coasts, don’t force them to move inland where I live.

  75. @Tony
    What cities in Florida?

    Jupiter, for one. Local financial services guy on the radio spends about half the year down there. He was part of the group that lobbied them to move there 5-10 years ago.

  76. @A123
    Hedge Funds and other specialty finance. That would be why "Naples-Marco Island, FL" is #5. There is virtually no land and the riff-raff is aggressively priced out.

    https://www.zillow.com/marco-island-fl/

    I believe this is where former DNC Chair, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, obtained her family wealth. Though I'm not 100% sure of that.

    PEACE 😇

    Man are those south florida houses tacky and cheap looking, despite their high prices.

    The “global warming is a scam” message seems to have penetrated as they look about 8 inches above sea level.

    Southern California isn’t a model of tastefulness either, but not nearly so bad. Our local “rich old people island” is Coronado, and looks much nicer.

  77. @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    I’d have to defer to that great Swedish American Texan Erik Jonsson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Erik_Jonsson

  78. I was in Austin regularly until about five years ago (my girlfriend lived there). We literally could not go to the parks because there was no place to … park. Hordes of Hindoos and other invaders (Silly Valley has chosen Austin as its beach-head for secondary facilities to pay employees less because of prohibitive costs of living – and, therefore, demanded salaries – near San José).

    Austin is now a shit-hole. The only nice thing about it is it is so close to Texas….

  79. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, and ice fishing are not expensive. Nor is curling, and least of all, snowshoeing.
     
    All of these activities require varying degree of spending on winter clothing and specialized equipment, even if one is able to find the items used. There are a lot of folks in those areas that don't have much money to spare. Free gear is usually worth what you pay for it.

    Western New York and western Michigan get along fine, with modest ski resorts and winter hunting.
     
    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

    I can’t imagine skiing is all that expensive in the UP, which really gets hammered with snow.
     
    Nordic? No, there are plenty of public access trails. Alpine adult day tickets start around $50, which is significant for a lot of people.

    I lived in both areas for decades. Snow removal is an annual, expensive pain in the ass.

    It’s just water. Shoveling is good exercise. Builds up the arms and back.

  80. @Forbes
    OK, I'll bite. What two things come from OKC?

    • Thanks: The Alarmist
  81. @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    “Cincinnati” airport, CVG, is in a whole ‘nother state, Steve – Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that’s not why it’s a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn’t really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you’re a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren’t going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Delta really treated Covington like a Ewe, if you catch my drift.
    , @JMcG
    OT- But still no report out on the Amazon freight plane that crashed in Texas a year ago. Strange.
    , @Desiderius
    It’s not that far as the crow flies.

    When we moved to the west side of Cincinnati my wife remarked that the planes looked like they were landing somewhere close and I chided her that the airport was all the way over in Kentucky. Sure enough next time we were looking at a map the airport was right across the river, maybe ten/fifteen miles at most.

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.

    Remarkable to go from podunk regional to major international and back in my lifetime.
    , @Prosa123
    That's similar to what happened in St. Louis. Back in the 1990's TWA, which operated a large hub at the airport, convinced the city to build a new runway at an exorbitant cost. Building it required acquiring and demolishing hundreds of residences and businesses. Soon after, American Airlines acquired TWA and greatly reduced operations at the hub. The new runway became unnecessary, and given its distance from the terminal building it gets minimal use.
  82. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer
    Large cities used to reduce population because of disease outbreaks; now it's because people can't afford children.
    A tech working on a piece of equipment told us she was glad she moved to Austin. She lived in Seattle before. The rent is less than half of what it was before, and the population isn't "All tech guys from the Midwest in expensive cars (pretends to be driving while looking down at phone) and they're dicks."

    The rent is less than half of what it was before, and the population isn’t “All tech guys from the Midwest in expensive cars (pretends to be driving while looking down at phone) and they’re dicks.”

    Wouldn’t a man from the Midwest be about the best stock for an American woman to mate with?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    From?

    No

    In?

    Yes

    We boil off the chaff.

  83. @benjaminl
    Dallas sells itself as having willed its way into existence through sheer chutzpah, despite having no inherent geographical reason for existence. The Trinity was never a navigable river (the chutzpah couldn't quite make that happen). Dallas:
    * convinced the railroads to come through town
    * convinced the State Fair to settle in town
    * convinced the Federal Reserve to locate in town

    Thus it's the Business Center of the Southwest which couldn't have been predicted in 1900.

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.

    Corporations who are looking for:
    * lower cost of living thus lower payroll costs (e.g. South/ Sunbelt / Sand States)
    * no state income tax for the executives (Texas & Florida)
    * several flights a day to the branch offices anywhere in the U.S. in under four hours (Dallas or Chicago)?

    Find Dallas to be of the few places that satisfies all of those criteria.

    Neither Austin nor Oklahoma City was in the running to build another DFW airport decades ago, and even less so now.

    On top of being beautiful, Austin is also of course a College / Government town, thus Very Progressive and thus very attractive to tech companies who need someplace to put their SJW employees (who are better paid and not as concerned about Austin's higher housing costs, as compared to the cubicle drones in Dallas-Fort Worth).

    Oklahoma is more firmly Red than the Texas metros, thus more attractive to Middle American Radicals, but less dominated by the Elite / Minority coalition than, say, Dallas.

    Dallas doesn't have the humidity & hurricanes of Houston, though of course the summers are bad, along with hail, tornadoes, etc., and of course lacks natural beauty. But for the corporations and white collar workers who want Cheap Land, Low Taxes, Good Schools, etc. it ticks all the boxes.

    Frisco, Tex., as Steve has pointed out, is the high point of all this (at the moment), as the Republican Base settles there to raise kids.

    However, as Steve has also pointed out, the Vibrant Diversity which has already taken over the inner-ring suburbs e.g. Grand Prairie, Irving, Garland, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, etc., will eventually come for Frisco etc. too. It's just a matter of time. But all that churn is good for the real estate business.

    Just Google "Inclusive Communities Project" for the Soros-type, Fed-supported NGO whose lawsuits ensure that every single suburban Whitopia in Texas is going to get the Diversity that it has coming... good and hard.

    I live in south central Oklahoma, near Oklahoma City, and when DFW airport opened in 1973, as an international hub airport, I remember it did seem like a kind of signal event, and it was a big part of what helped create the sense that “the metroplex” was on it’s way up, that it was a place that would grow and thrive.
    OKC has been helped a lot over the years by the presence of Tinker Air Force Base, which has provided a lot of good jobs due to other Air Force maintenance bases being consolidated into over the last 30 years or so.

  84. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:

    Fayetteville, Arkansas, is a university town, progressive, vegan, intelligent, white, you name it. If you need to hire remote writers with the sensibility of New York City at a third the price, Fayetteville is the place.

    OK this is advice for Carlos Slim and Jeff Bezos/Jorgensen who don’t need to make cash flow money on their “Journalism” ventures.

    Otherwise there’s no point in hiring these “progressive, vegan, intelligent” writers at any price. You can’t build a viable business around their productive output.

    Progressives have absolutely destroyed the writing business as an actual business (as opposed to a nonprofit).

    • Agree: Desiderius
  85. @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    Pittsburgh. Definitely Pittsburgh. Allegheny/US Air Airlines bankruptcies and it’s failure as a hub make it a giant, money losing white elephant. Yet Allegheny county officials want to spend another $1.1 billion to “modernize” it.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/08/18/pittsburgh-international-airport-terminal-pit-gates-american-airlines/stories/201708180107

    https://patch.com/pennsylvania/pittsburgh/inside-pittsburgh-airports-1-1-billion-new-terminal-project

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Pittsburg was a US Air hub, but they had PHL at the other side of the state. I guess it was not necessary. It is a nice terminal, but really dead. Cleveland is the same story as CVG (except without all the freight business). Once Continental merged with United, the flying at that former Continental hub went way, way down.

    It sounds like a Talking Heads song ... "Heard about Cinci, heard about Cleveland, heard about Pittsburg, P.A... you better know not to sit by the window ...."

  86. @Achmed E. Newman
    "Cincinnati" airport, CVG, is in a whole 'nother state, Steve - Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that's not why it's a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn't really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you're a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren't going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    Delta really treated Covington like a Ewe, if you catch my drift.

  87. @Bubba
    Pittsburgh. Definitely Pittsburgh. Allegheny/US Air Airlines bankruptcies and it’s failure as a hub make it a giant, money losing white elephant. Yet Allegheny county officials want to spend another $1.1 billion to “modernize” it.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/08/18/pittsburgh-international-airport-terminal-pit-gates-american-airlines/stories/201708180107

    https://patch.com/pennsylvania/pittsburgh/inside-pittsburgh-airports-1-1-billion-new-terminal-project

    Yeah, Pittsburg was a US Air hub, but they had PHL at the other side of the state. I guess it was not necessary. It is a nice terminal, but really dead. Cleveland is the same story as CVG (except without all the freight business). Once Continental merged with United, the flying at that former Continental hub went way, way down.

    It sounds like a Talking Heads song … “Heard about Cinci, heard about Cleveland, heard about Pittsburg, P.A… you better know not to sit by the window ….”

    • Replies: @Bubba
    Good one Achmed! Thanks for stirring up some old neurons with that Talking Heads reference. And please don’t let the spell correction software leave out the ‘h’ in “Pittsburgh”!

    Pittsburghese/Yinzers are very proud of that ‘h’!

    https://www.rmusentrymedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Franco-Harris-and-George-Washington-Statues.png
  88. @Achmed E. Newman
    "Cincinnati" airport, CVG, is in a whole 'nother state, Steve - Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that's not why it's a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn't really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you're a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren't going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    OT- But still no report out on the Amazon freight plane that crashed in Texas a year ago. Strange.

  89. @benjaminl
    Dallas sells itself as having willed its way into existence through sheer chutzpah, despite having no inherent geographical reason for existence. The Trinity was never a navigable river (the chutzpah couldn't quite make that happen). Dallas:
    * convinced the railroads to come through town
    * convinced the State Fair to settle in town
    * convinced the Federal Reserve to locate in town

    Thus it's the Business Center of the Southwest which couldn't have been predicted in 1900.

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.

    Corporations who are looking for:
    * lower cost of living thus lower payroll costs (e.g. South/ Sunbelt / Sand States)
    * no state income tax for the executives (Texas & Florida)
    * several flights a day to the branch offices anywhere in the U.S. in under four hours (Dallas or Chicago)?

    Find Dallas to be of the few places that satisfies all of those criteria.

    Neither Austin nor Oklahoma City was in the running to build another DFW airport decades ago, and even less so now.

    On top of being beautiful, Austin is also of course a College / Government town, thus Very Progressive and thus very attractive to tech companies who need someplace to put their SJW employees (who are better paid and not as concerned about Austin's higher housing costs, as compared to the cubicle drones in Dallas-Fort Worth).

    Oklahoma is more firmly Red than the Texas metros, thus more attractive to Middle American Radicals, but less dominated by the Elite / Minority coalition than, say, Dallas.

    Dallas doesn't have the humidity & hurricanes of Houston, though of course the summers are bad, along with hail, tornadoes, etc., and of course lacks natural beauty. But for the corporations and white collar workers who want Cheap Land, Low Taxes, Good Schools, etc. it ticks all the boxes.

    Frisco, Tex., as Steve has pointed out, is the high point of all this (at the moment), as the Republican Base settles there to raise kids.

    However, as Steve has also pointed out, the Vibrant Diversity which has already taken over the inner-ring suburbs e.g. Grand Prairie, Irving, Garland, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, etc., will eventually come for Frisco etc. too. It's just a matter of time. But all that churn is good for the real estate business.

    Just Google "Inclusive Communities Project" for the Soros-type, Fed-supported NGO whose lawsuits ensure that every single suburban Whitopia in Texas is going to get the Diversity that it has coming... good and hard.

    My sister flipped her first house in Frisco to some Dot Indians establishing an exclusive enclave over a decade ago, nearly doubling her money. Dot Indians are a helluva lot more diverse than American blacks whose families have been here for centuries.

  90. @Anonymous

    The rent is less than half of what it was before, and the population isn’t “All tech guys from the Midwest in expensive cars (pretends to be driving while looking down at phone) and they’re dicks.”
     
    Wouldn’t a man from the Midwest be about the best stock for an American woman to mate with?

    From?

    No

    In?

    Yes

    We boil off the chaff.

  91. @Achmed E. Newman
    "Cincinnati" airport, CVG, is in a whole 'nother state, Steve - Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that's not why it's a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn't really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you're a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren't going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    It’s not that far as the crow flies.

    When we moved to the west side of Cincinnati my wife remarked that the planes looked like they were landing somewhere close and I chided her that the airport was all the way over in Kentucky. Sure enough next time we were looking at a map the airport was right across the river, maybe ten/fifteen miles at most.

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.

    Remarkable to go from podunk regional to major international and back in my lifetime.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.
     
    If Cincinnati had had a little foresight about what was to come--both air travel and interstate highways--they could have found a good sized site off I-75, between Cincinnati and Dayton (e.g. south of the Armco Works in Middletown) that could have served both Cincinnati and Dayton suburbs well--SWORA--and been more desirable for airlines to keep up high levels of service.


    I think it's well past time for the airport in Covington to get a proper name. And now there's a local hero available.

    I propose CVG be renamed the "Nick Sandmann International Airport". But locals can call it "the Smirk".
  92. @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Pittsburg was a US Air hub, but they had PHL at the other side of the state. I guess it was not necessary. It is a nice terminal, but really dead. Cleveland is the same story as CVG (except without all the freight business). Once Continental merged with United, the flying at that former Continental hub went way, way down.

    It sounds like a Talking Heads song ... "Heard about Cinci, heard about Cleveland, heard about Pittsburg, P.A... you better know not to sit by the window ...."

    Good one Achmed! Thanks for stirring up some old neurons with that Talking Heads reference. And please don’t let the spell correction software leave out the ‘h’ in “Pittsburgh”!

    Pittsburghese/Yinzers are very proud of that ‘h’!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    So sorry 'bout that "h", Bubba!

    My spell-check didn't catch it, when I just tried it.
  93. @Muggles
    From Steve's top article:

    >>even though when I was at Rice U. in Houston in the 1970s, everybody agreed that Austin was the nicest city in Texas.<<

    I graduated from there in the mid 70s. Wonder if we ever bumped into each other there?

    I lived off campus, mostly rode an old bike w/ backpack long before it was fashionable. Was poor and lived in the Hermann Park adjacent mostly black neighborhood w/ my hippie libertarian friends in our Waterhole commune. Not a typical Rice undergrad, but tuition was free.

    I agree w/ the comment re: Austin. Envied the UT students there. But also because they had co-eds. At Rice if you recall, males outnumbered females 4 to 1. Not so good. Plus some of them were lesbians, including a couple of subsequent Houston mayors. Better now, I'm told.

    Envied the UT students there. But also because they had co-eds.

    I will have to give you that. I have never encountered a higher concentration of attractive women than the few square miles within N. Lamar Blvd., w. 15th street, I-35 and 38th Street.

  94. What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong? Does Dallas-Fort Worth just overwhelm everything in the region?

    State income tax?

    US marginal tax rates on productive people–before you crest the social security tax limit–are very steep. Piling a state income tax–almost all of which hit max quickly well below SS cap–is abusive.

    It’s appalling to me that in most solid red states the Republicans have not gotten rid of state income taxes … even though they basically target their own voters. (The welfare cases aren’t paying them, the criminals aren’t paying them, the illegals aren’t paying them, the Asian businessmen ….)

    Texas, Florida, even tiny (population) Wyoming and South Dakota are able to operate just fine without them. Republicans at least should get rid of them in their states, so their voters aren’t getting screwed–or have a little grace period–before the demographics turn against them.

    ~~

    OKC might be a fine place. But if you’re going to live with a South Plains climate, you might as well move across the Red, find yourself a nice whiteish community on one of those lakes (resevoirs) outside town and live without the state sticking its paw in your paycheck.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't know about Florida, but Texas counties have high property tax to make up for it, high for a southern State that is. You know I'd rather have neither, but it's gonna be one or the other, I'd rather see the property taxes be low. That is a tax on owning stuff vs. a tax on earning. If you want to live as a minimalist, to allow for affordable family formation, you do better paying less on your stuff every year ... forever ... and only going up...

    There's something still cool about being a Texan though.
  95. @Achmed E. Newman
    "Cincinnati" airport, CVG, is in a whole 'nother state, Steve - Kentucky. (Still, only about 20 minutes to downtown Cinci.)

    However, that's not why it's a bit of a white elephant. A hub doesn't really need to be right near any big city. Cincinnati was a big Delta Airlines hub. There was a 3rd parallel runway built 15 years or so back (not the 3rd runway, but the 4th, but making 3 N/S ones in parallel). That was bad timing, in that, once Delta merged with Northwest Airlines, they decided after a while* to cut the CVG flying down a lot, maybe down to 20% of the flying.

    However, that airport is becoming a BIG BIG freight hub now. Besides the DHL/former-Airborne stuff, with all their contract companies too, ATI is flying in there with Amazon stuff. Amazon is building a big freight facility with ramp space for 100 planes or so. So, the airline terminal has had big chunks of it torn down, but if you're a box, CVG is a great place to fly through!

    .

    * or already knew but weren't going to tell employees and the City of Cincinnati yet.

    That’s similar to what happened in St. Louis. Back in the 1990’s TWA, which operated a large hub at the airport, convinced the city to build a new runway at an exorbitant cost. Building it required acquiring and demolishing hundreds of residences and businesses. Soon after, American Airlines acquired TWA and greatly reduced operations at the hub. The new runway became unnecessary, and given its distance from the terminal building it gets minimal use.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  96. @The Alarmist

    What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong?
     
    Only two things come from OKC.

    Not a whole lot. Oklahoma had a demographic shake-out during the period running from 1930 to 1960, presumably a response to an acute problem (the Dustbowl, ca. 1935) and an abiding problem (labor release in agriculture). Since 1960, Oklahoma’s share of the national population has remained between 1.2% and 1.3% of the total. There are five counties which house the state’s three cities. The share of the state’s population to be found in these five counties went from 12% in 1910 to 40% in 1960. It has in increments increased to 50% since 1960. Performance not spectacular, but certainly not under par.

  97. @AnotherDad

    What’s Oklahoma City doing wrong? Does Dallas-Fort Worth just overwhelm everything in the region?
     
    State income tax?

    US marginal tax rates on productive people--before you crest the social security tax limit--are very steep. Piling a state income tax--almost all of which hit max quickly well below SS cap--is abusive.

    It's appalling to me that in most solid red states the Republicans have not gotten rid of state income taxes ... even though they basically target their own voters. (The welfare cases aren't paying them, the criminals aren't paying them, the illegals aren't paying them, the Asian businessmen ....)

    Texas, Florida, even tiny (population) Wyoming and South Dakota are able to operate just fine without them. Republicans at least should get rid of them in their states, so their voters aren't getting screwed--or have a little grace period--before the demographics turn against them.

    ~~

    OKC might be a fine place. But if you're going to live with a South Plains climate, you might as well move across the Red, find yourself a nice whiteish community on one of those lakes (resevoirs) outside town and live without the state sticking its paw in your paycheck.

    I don’t know about Florida, but Texas counties have high property tax to make up for it, high for a southern State that is. You know I’d rather have neither, but it’s gonna be one or the other, I’d rather see the property taxes be low. That is a tax on owning stuff vs. a tax on earning. If you want to live as a minimalist, to allow for affordable family formation, you do better paying less on your stuff every year … forever … and only going up…

    There’s something still cool about being a Texan though.

  98. @Muggles
    >>Certainly a lot of Germans near Austin. New Braunsfels, Fredericksburg, Kerrville – the whole Hill Country area. And yeah, they’re more organized and cooperative in a lot of ways. Compare that to some of the earlier Scots-Irish in Texas who actually wanted to fight Comanches in Texas.<<

    Yes, my people are very dangerous. Just ask Hadrian and the Romans (if you could). I also have some German DNA so I don't like to roll until I have lots of tanks ready.

    I also have some German DNA so I don’t like to roll until I have lots of tanks ready.

    And some 88s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_18/36/37/41

  99. @Lurker

    But he’ll probably go the Macron route and try to stage photo ops with midgets.
     
    Or at least photo ops like this:

    https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GettyImages-1043366346-e1538402387372-714x476.jpg

    Stop and frisk?

    Cute couple.

    The incident to which I was referring involved Sarkozy, not Macron. (Those French manlet politicans are hard to tell apart, aren’t they?)

    https://www.cleveland.com/world/2009/09/claim_frances_nicolas_sarkozy.html

    PARIS — From elevator shoes to step-up boxes behind podiums, and even his own tippy-toes, Nicolas Sarkozy and his handlers have tried to compensate for his height — or lack thereof.

    Now, a factory worker’s claim that she was chosen to stand near the French president during a photo shoot because she is short is making waves on the Internet — and rankling Sarkozy’s office.

    The brouhaha was sparked during a visit to an auto parts plant in Normandy last week in which Sarkozy laid out his support for industry and defended his controversial plan for a “carbon tax” to help the environment.

    About 20 employees in white work smocks were gathered to stand behind Sarkozy on a riser as he spoke to about 600 workers at the new Faurecia automotive parts production site in Caligny.

    “I’ve been told you were chosen on height criteria,” a reporter for the Belgian TV network RTBF asked a dark-haired woman in the lineup. “Is that true?”

    “Yes, yes,” she said.

    The reporter, Jean-Philippe Shaller, pressed on: “That you shouldn’t be taller than the president?”

    “That’s right,” she replied, then nervously looked away as other white-suited employees looked on.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    Mirabel Airport outside Montreal flopped so badly that all passenger flights moved back to Dorval.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montreal-s-abandoned-mirabel-airport-too-costly-to-repurpose-1.1967712

  101. @Desiderius
    It’s not that far as the crow flies.

    When we moved to the west side of Cincinnati my wife remarked that the planes looked like they were landing somewhere close and I chided her that the airport was all the way over in Kentucky. Sure enough next time we were looking at a map the airport was right across the river, maybe ten/fifteen miles at most.

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.

    Remarkable to go from podunk regional to major international and back in my lifetime.

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.

    If Cincinnati had had a little foresight about what was to come–both air travel and interstate highways–they could have found a good sized site off I-75, between Cincinnati and Dayton (e.g. south of the Armco Works in Middletown) that could have served both Cincinnati and Dayton suburbs well–SWORA–and been more desirable for airlines to keep up high levels of service.

    I think it’s well past time for the airport in Covington to get a proper name. And now there’s a local hero available.

    I propose CVG be renamed the “Nick Sandmann International Airport”. But locals can call it “the Smirk”.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Heh.

    It’s close enough to the river that a young Pete Rose could’ve taken the Anderson Ferry to the site. One imagines they visualized getting a new bridge and interstate (72? Nashville-Cincy-Pitt? ) out of the deal, but the timing didn’t work out with the airport’s heyday.
  102. @Reg Cæsar

    But most importantly (they say), Dallas and Fort Worth put aside their long-standing rivalry long enough to build D-FW Airport, which is the main reason for its success in the last decades with corporate relocations.
     
    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? Southwest took over Love Field in Dallas, and were so successful that Congress, thanks to Jim Wright, passed a law greatly restricting flights from Love, so the new DFW wouldn't be shamed.

    La Guardia and Newark-- Newark!-- are more popular than the wetland-destroying distant JFK. Haneda is where Delta (which inherited Northwest's Asian dominance) now lands in Tokyo, not Narita.

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    People like the convenience of their old airports, even if they're somewhat run down. Minneapolis and St Paul, which, unlike Dallas and Ft Worth actually touch-- there is no in-between in which to build-- decided to build their new airport on top of the old one. Smart move.

    They scotched plans to build in Hastings, nearly in Wisconsin. Any suburb would be too far from one city or the other, sparking jealousy.

    Why is an airport way out in the boonies a feature, rather than a bug? …

    Denver plowed Stapleton under rather than let it compete with the new airport halfway to Kansas. Who in his right mind would choose Dulles over Reagan, which is on the Metro? Heck, even BWI is more convenient to DC.

    I’ve only been in Dulles for connection and thought the concourses were mediocre–tight, low celing, lame.

    But DIA is far and away my favorite place for connection. Big, light, airy concourses, easy to find out-of-the-way seating. Four huge N/S runways (and two more E/W). It handles huge traffic–a hub for United, Southwest, Frontier–easily. Excellent connections to the world. Easily expandable–if necessary they could push out north and build a D, E, F … concourses. Huge economic win for Denver.

    All that’s really required to build in the boonies is to build a fast train connection back into town–downtown and depending on the layout of your metro a few other places. Or express trains on existing metro lines. I think it doesn’t happen as often as it should because there’s a constituency of cab and shuttle companies that want to make a buck selling access, so you end up with low productivity employment. Done right you could even have Hong Kong experience, where you can check in luggage downtown–and it rides the train securely and you’re done messing with it.

    ~~

    Of course, the more important solution … lets stop importing more and more people and we won’t need ever bigger and bigger infrastructure.

  103. @Steve Sailer
    Some of these monster airports tend to payoff: DFW, Denver, ... Have any been giant money-losing white elephants? The Cincinnati airport is extremely far out of town.

    One such proposed facility was the Everglades Jetport. Located halfway between Miami and Naples, it would have been the largest airport in the world:
    https://www.nps.gov/bicy/learn/historyculture/miami-jetport.htm

    Of the six planned runways, only one was built before the project was nixed by the Nixon administration due to environmental concerns. It’s still used today for training flights.

    Airport officials have considered other sites over the years. One area in particular, off of U.S. 27 near the Dade-Broward line, was given serious consideration in the late ’80s. But all of the proposals have been defeated. The existing Miami International Airport, located a few miles west of downtown, has had to suffice.

    Completely landlocked, MIA has been considered obsolete since the 1960s. The terminal dates back to 1959, with the newer portions having been grafted onto the older structure like body parts on a Frankenstein.

    Even the rebuilt areas largely conform to the late-’50s footprint. The ceilings in the baggage-claim and ticketing areas are no higher than when Ike was in the White House. The boarding area seen in this clip dates back to the Carter administration. It has been extensively remodeled – the moldy carpets are gone and the old train cars have been completely replaced – but the basic layout is exactly the same. The roped-off escalators at 2:25 once lead to an outdoor “sun deck” that was closed when the wood rotted beyond repair:

    Still, I have a sneaky admiration for the place. I’ve flown out of MIA so many times that I can navigate it in my sleep. Walking through the terminal, one can feel the ghosts of Eastern, Pan Am, National, Braniff, TWA, Northwest, USAir, and dozens of other long-dead carriers. (In some spots, one can still see the physical ticket counters that were in use when those airlines still ferried passengers.) And with so many international travelers – mostly Latin American, but many European – the opportunities for people-watching are endless.

  104. @AnotherDad

    Cincinnati traffic is relatively mild but it still takes 35 minutes to get there for non-crows.
     
    If Cincinnati had had a little foresight about what was to come--both air travel and interstate highways--they could have found a good sized site off I-75, between Cincinnati and Dayton (e.g. south of the Armco Works in Middletown) that could have served both Cincinnati and Dayton suburbs well--SWORA--and been more desirable for airlines to keep up high levels of service.


    I think it's well past time for the airport in Covington to get a proper name. And now there's a local hero available.

    I propose CVG be renamed the "Nick Sandmann International Airport". But locals can call it "the Smirk".

    Heh.

    It’s close enough to the river that a young Pete Rose could’ve taken the Anderson Ferry to the site. One imagines they visualized getting a new bridge and interstate (72? Nashville-Cincy-Pitt? ) out of the deal, but the timing didn’t work out with the airport’s heyday.

  105. @Anonymous

    Does Austin have more German-Americans than the other big cities in Texas? Germans tend to be more cooperative than Scots-Irish, who tend to be ornerier and more individualistic.
     
    This is false and misleading, Steve. Scots Irish are highly cooperative. Witness their strong patriotism, high rates volunteerism in the military, and relatively low racial/ethnic chauvinism. Scots Irish may be “individualistic,” but they are also one of the most cooperative peoples on the planet.

    Perhaps “communal” or “communistic” was the word you were looking for.

    They are cooperative in the foxhole. Not so much in the pub. I think they pretty much invented “…….Ohh yeah??? Well F*** You!!!!….” (and I say that as someone who is at least 1/4 Scots-Irish.)

  106. @Bubba
    Good one Achmed! Thanks for stirring up some old neurons with that Talking Heads reference. And please don’t let the spell correction software leave out the ‘h’ in “Pittsburgh”!

    Pittsburghese/Yinzers are very proud of that ‘h’!

    https://www.rmusentrymedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Franco-Harris-and-George-Washington-Statues.png

    So sorry ’bout that “h”, Bubba!

    My spell-check didn’t catch it, when I just tried it.

    • Thanks: Bubba
  107. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Pretty sure that SLC and Albuquerque have meth trafficking issues feeding their crime issues. There was a reason that Breaking Bad was set in Albuquerque. Prescott, AZ is also known to have terrible issues with meth.

    Anything in the Rust Belt is considered terrible because we shipped all the jobs, industrial plants, and intellectual property to China decades ago, which is why say, Guangzhou is all shiny and new these days.

    Also, winters in the Rust Belt are not fun unless you're into an outdoor activity, most of which are very expensive. It's doubly bad in the lake effect snow belts because dealing with the snowfall is an onerous burden for everyone.

    No surprise Detroit is number one. They got so fed up with the hijinks of African-American mayors that they elected a white guy to try and fix it. He's actually making some progress. The other irony is that, in the Motor City, the roads are awful.

    It turns out that the pundits were wrong, the US can't stay wealthy by doing each other's laundry and writing each other fart apps for our smartphones.

    Read that the real reason Alb was chosen was for the incentives NM was willing to give for them to film there. But apparently it’s not a stretch to think it’s a place for meth production.

    My son was looking at an opportunity in Alb and I did caution him that there is some truth to Breaking Bad’s depiction of Alb. I used to travel there years ago for work and liked going there since it was very different from anywhere else I was traveling.

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