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The Push and Pull Dynamics of White Flight: A Study of the Bronx Between 1950 and 1980
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One of the biggest events in recent American history to be almost completely memoryholed is what happened to white ethnic urban neighborhoods due to racial integration in the second half of the 20th Century. Tens of millions of living Americans have first hand memories of these enormous events, but nobody wants to hear from them. This is particularly peculiar, since many of the children and grandchildren of the victims are bright people, some with jobs in the media.

I finally found a rare historical account, “The Push and Pull Dynamics of White Flight: A Study of the Bronx Between 1950 and 1980” published in the Bronx County Historical Society Journal in 2009. The author simply interviewed her own mother and several of her mother’s oldest friends, plus the archivist of the Bronx County Historical Society, about what it was like growing up in the Bronx Before Integration (i.e., it was nice), and then What Happened.

In Ms. Roby’s simple model, the Pull is the undeniable appeal of moving to the suburbs as automobiles and highways become more abundant. The Push is blacks and Puerto Ricans moving in, and the subsequent rise in crime and decline in quality of life.

 
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  1. My Ukranian grandmother to this day still holds a grudge and speaks bitterly of what has become of Camden, NJ where she grew up.

  2. Being able to speak openly and honestly about black and brown (that includes South Asians and Muslims like the UK and parts of Canada have found out) criminality is key. We have to fight very hard to be able to do it. If that gets through, it appeals to people’s base instinct for their own safety and security and that of their children. It needs to be massively known that blacks commit 50% of murders, non-Swedes commit 90% or whatever it is of rapes, etc. etc.

    • Agree: anonymous1963
  3. Ed says:

    Many journalists should spend some time reading or watching the archives of their employers. I remember watching a NBC report from the early 60s about DC blacks. They went over the issues among the poor, single homes, early sexualization (the std rate among junior high blacks was higher than adult whites evidently) and crime.

  4. I always thought the post-apocalyptic street punk aesthetic so prominent in 1980’s sci-fi was kind of goofy, but I am literally starting to see people dress like Escape From New York in my neighborhood.

    Things are weird.

  5. nobody wants to hear from them

    Well, there’s fiction. In the happy ending to Philip Roth’s The Plot Against America, Newark’s Jewish neighborhood narrowly escapes destruction. But reading it, I was struck by the politically incorrect thought that in the ensuing decades of real life, that destruction did occur. And it wasn’t fictional fascists that did it.

    For a nonfictional account, there’s Philly War Zone.

    • Replies: @sayless
    @International Jew

    Also see The Black Panthers in Dorchester: A Forgotten History by Devlin Hilton, about the violent ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community there. It's an article, discusses a book called The Death of an American Jewish Community. Well-written, quite sad.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Alden, @Nicholas Stix

  6. Tom Wolfe described this in Bonfire of the Vanities, pp. 36-38 of the paperback version. Just go to Amazon, click “Look Inside”, and type “Bronx” in the search field. 5th one down.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Dave Pinsen

    My read of this coming as someone who grew up there, Wolfe was remarkably insightful and prescient in his description of the Bronx and NY. I later knew someone who was an assistant DA in the Bronx about the time of Bonfire and I asked him about Bonfire and the Bronx DA part and he said Wolfe got the dynamics pretty right.

  7. E. Michael Jones , “The Slaughter of Cities: Urban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing”
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2023854.The_Slaughter_of_Cities

    E. Michael Jones Books Removed by Amazon on June 20

  8. Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse (hitherto the Jewish Mecca) to Co-Op City and then in turn being driven out of Co-Op City by the usual suspects!

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Dan Hayes


    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse
     
    Absorbing 2013 exploration from New York magazine on the how the destruction of the Bronx may have influenced Stanley Kubrick’s themes of recurring (lost) pasts and parallel timelines in The Shining:

    ‘I Know What The Shining Is Really About’: Inside the Crowded Cult at the Overlook Hotel


    This is what I had: The Shining was nothing if not a story of childhood fears, an attempt to come to terms with being born into a fallen, increasingly terrifying world. Far from Kubrick’s supposed hermetically sealed standoffishness, the film was a desperately interior work, the closest the director ever got to autobiography. It was his memoir film, a preteen action-adventure story with Danny, the boy who could “shine”—see what others could not—serving as a stand-in for the boyhood Kubrick.

    I turned up a clue, what Bill Blakemore would call “a confirmer,” at the Majestic Court apartments at 2715 Grand Concourse, where Kubrick lived in his teenage years. None of the Dominican and Chinese people in the building’s once stately, now tatty, dimly lit lobby had heard of Kubrick, but the great director’s presence was palpable. Opposite the elevator was a series of sectioned windows. Each of the center panels bore a gilt-edged likeness to Louis XIV–era figures. The Barry Lyndon connective could not be ignored. There seemed no way the young Kubrick could have missed the paintings while heading to see yet another dream-life double bill at the nearby, resplendent Loew’s Paradise, now home to the World Changers Church, Creflo and Taffi Dollar, Pastors.
     


    My visit to P.S. 3 on Lafontaine Avenue proved unsatisfying. The school was built in 1995; no one knew of an earlier incarnation of P.S. 3. However, a simple Internet search led to a July 18, 2012, Daily News article detailing a six-alarm fire on Walton Avenue, not far from Yankee Stadium. With 28 firefighters injured, the paper reported, the fire recalled another blaze on October 12, 1977, during the second game of the World Series. With the Yanks trailing the Dodgers 2-0 in the first inning, Howard Cosell commented on a shot from the aerial camera. “There it is, ladies and gentlemen,” Cosell famously if mythically intoned, “the Bronx is burning.” The 1977 fire, the News wrote, “began in the vacant P.S. 3 at 158th Street and Melrose.”

    Funny how a seemingly stray factoid can forge the way to theoretical cornucopia. In the memorable early scene in The Shining, Danny eats a bowl of ice cream given him by Scatman Crothers’s character, Dick Hallorann, the kindly Overlook Hotel chef. Aware that Hallorann is also possessed with the gift of “shining,” Danny asks if there is “something bad” at the Overlook. Hallorann grimaces. He knows Danny’s “shining” ability far exceeds his own, so he cannot lie. Choosing his words carefully, Hallorann explains that many things have gone on at the hotel through the years, “and not all of them was good.” By way of explanation, Hallorann says, “When something happens, it can leave a trace of itself behind … say, like, if someone burns toast.”

    From there, it was easy enough to put together. Like the Overlook, the South Bronx was a realm of ghosts. If you could “shine,” which Hallorann says is seeing “things that haven’t happened yet” and “things that happened a long time ago,” then you’d gain access to the entire, terrible tableau: the European immigrants in their apartments thinking finally they were safe from the knock on the door, then the faces on the streets changed color, the fear of the unknown set in, leading to the moving vans bound for Jersey, Long Island, and the rest. Then they’d come, the agents of the insurance-mad landlords, the hooded arsonists stepping from the darkness with the can of kerosene they splashed across the lobby floor. A lit match flew across space, the flames shot up, and sirens filled the air. Between 1970 and 1980, more than 300,000 souls disappeared from the census rolls, a whole city of phantoms.

    There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood. Even behind the stone walls of his Childwickbury Manor, he kept up with the New York media and events in his hometown. He couldn’t fail to notice stories about the Savage Skulls marching down Fox Street. How far-fetched is it to assume he was aware of the fire at P.S. 3, where he spent the most terrible of his pre-Graflex years? As a boy, he was a die-hard Yankees fan, sitting in the bleachers to be near his idol, Joe DiMaggio, whom he’d later photograph for Look. In 1999, the two sons of the Bronx would die within hours of each other. He was still a follower of the sport, so it made sense that Kubrick would have had no small interest in a ­Dodgers-Yankees World Series.

    Kubrick was gone before the terror started, but still, this was his world, these were his streets. Now they were being burned to ashes, one more bit of the past being gouged away, just the way the world of his forefathers had vanished from Europe—the hideous cycle of history spinning, a circle closing shut, one more mordant har-de-har of the human condition.
     

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Nicholas Stix

    , @Anon
    @Dan Hayes

    Jews of that era had a curse to say to other Jews they had problems with:

    "May your neighborhood change"

  9. One of the biggest events in recent American history to be almost completely memoryholed is what happened to white ethnic urban neighborhoods due to racial integration in the second half of the 20th Century.

    Yep. My personal feeling is that if some now deceased tinpot dictator had rammed through a scheme to “integrate” minority Martians with majority Earthlings, we’d be reading academic studies and popular books warning of the evils of unintended consequences, legislative and ideological mischief, the whole ball of wax. The dictator would be as vilified as Pol Pot; his social engineering trashed as much as Stalin’s collectivization. There’d be movies about how not to achieve “social justice”.

  10. Sounds identical to what happened in London between 1970-2010(everything seems to happen a little later in Britain than it does in the States) most of the inner London areas saw a huge decline in their white population, that has slowed down in the last 10 years as many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be “quaint” and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there but what remains notable is that there are very few white families that remain there once their kids have entered school age and so the areas remain roughly split 50/50 between immigrant families and mostly childless white middle class.

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place, yes the space advantages are great but then in both cities one is only a short drive or rail journey away from some breath taking forests and river valleys. By abandoning the cities for the countryside whites have effectively made the cities less appealing as they have not managed to hold onto what made them great in the first place, the communities, the cultural life, the variety that only a big city can bring. We should have been more like the Spanish and the Germans, in those countries one can still find many large cities with largely native inhabitants, they are great places.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Oliver Elkington

    Anglo-Saxons aren't that city-oriented. The English aristocracy typically spent just the summers in their London townhouses and the other 9 months of the year on their country estates.

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington, @HunInTheSun, @Nikolai Vladivostok

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Oliver Elkington

    Welfare* + public transport-dependent underclass = abandonment of the cities.

    *"The Dole" to you

    Germany and Spain (and the rest of non-Visegrad Europe) were formerly smart enough not to import a violent welfare-dependent underclass. Sadly, Merkel, the EU and US pressure have overturned this, and so continental European cities will increasingly resemble those of the US and UK. Let us hope that the Visegrad countries can hold out until the insane New World Order collapses.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Oliver Elkington

    "many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be “quaint” and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there"

    Young people are still drawn to London as a place to kick off a career, esp in law or the City, and they have to live somewhere, I'm not sure how important the architecture is. Most of London is still Victorian terracing. The very pretty mews cottages are unaffordable unless you're a City whizz.

    Places like Brixton and Clapham are being recolonised by young white graduates (as Notting Hill has been). The people driven out in the sixties were families and older people.

    Everyone leaves London when they have kids, those who don't end up childless.

    Some of the worst of the London underclass (i.e. the ones that no one will rent to without a YUGE government subsidy, no longer available after the 2015 eugenic welfare reforms - no benefits for any kids after #2) have been shipped out to places like Barnsley and Bradford.

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18554517.ross-kemp-hundreds-homeless-moved-bradford/


    TV presenter Ross Kemp has revealed that hundreds of homeless are being sent to Bradford by other councils to save money or because they have not got enough space to house them.

    The actor’s programme, being shown on ITV tonight at 7.30pm, reveals that nearly 300 households from 31 districts, including from London, Kent and Essex, had been moved to Bradford over the last two years.

    Ross Kemp said: “We are living in the middle of a housing crisis, with a shortfall of some four million homes. Local authorities are having to look outside their boroughs to find accommodation.”

    The programme found vulnerable families who agreed to be moved by local councils, sometimes many miles away from loved ones, in order to keep a roof over their heads.
     

    , @HammerJack
    @Oliver Elkington


    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place
     
    Being held up at gunpoint, your wife raped and your kid's head bashed in will open your eyes right quick.
  11. The old man used to tell me that the zoot suiters would travel in packs and beat up and rob GIs and sailors. The zoot suit riots were the whites fighting back. It was good seeing the clip.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @flyingtiger

    The zoot suiters hung around the main train station and attacked the servicemen as they left.

  12. The reality is this.

    Up through the 50s, it was acceptable for Whites to engage in collective violence to defend their turf. That’s why neighborhoods stayed White for a very long time.

    1906 Atlanta race riot.

    Springfield race riot of 1908

    The Springfield race riot of 1908 were events of mass racial violence committed against African Americans by a mob of about 5,000 white Americans and European immigrants in Springfield, Illinois, between August 14 and 16, 1908. Two black men had been arrested as suspects in a rape, and attempted rape and murder. The alleged victims were two young white women and the father of one of them. When a mob seeking to lynch the men discovered the sheriff had transferred them out of the city, the whites furiously spread out to attack black neighborhoods, murdered black citizens on the streets, and destroyed black businesses and homes. The state militia was called out to quell the rioting.

    1919 Chicago riot.

    Tulsa race riots.

    Zoot Suit riots.

    Article from Jared Taylor’s American Renaissance.

    https://www.amren.com/news/2019/02/negrophobia-race-riots-in-america-mark-bauerlein/

    When Whites Hunted Blacks

    From the period after the War Between the States until the 1940s, race riots meant whites attacking blacks, usually in black areas. The last such riot took place in Detroit on June 20, 1943, when white mobs fought blacks in various parts of town, and even launched motorized raiding parties into black neighborhoods. Twenty-five blacks and nine whites died, in a culmination of tensions that arose from a sharp increase in the black population.

    There was a famous movie made called “Birth of a Nation.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation

    the film portrays African-Americans (many of whom are played by white actors in blackface) as unintelligent and sexually aggressive toward white women. The film presents the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) as a heroic force necessary to preserve American values and a white supremacist social order.

    Here’s what President Woodrow Wilson thought of the film.

    Wilson said of the film, “It is like writing history with lightning. And my only regret is that it is all so terribly true.”

    Jewish groups didn’t like the film. They protested it.

    So what changed in America?

    During the 60s and 70s, the US govt introduced aggressive measures to integrate schools (such as busing). The govt also banned racially restrictive covenants.

    Whites who fought back with violence went to jail.

    Or were suppressed by the police.

    Sometimes the troops had to be sent in.

    So it wasn’t just push/pull.

    It was the govt taking strong action to suppress White collective action.

    Whites had their hands tied behind their backs by the courts, cops, military, politicians, media. So Whites couldn’t fight back anymore. So Whites did the practical thing and fled. Simple as that.

    Let me offer you 2 choices.

    1. Live in a grimy urban neighborhood. Get into lots of street brawls with violent Blacks. Risk getting thrown in jail and spending years behind bars. Constantly get denounced by the politicians and media.

    2. Flee to beautiful suburbs and live an idyllic existence.

    Which choice would you select? Choose carefully.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Tulsa race riots.
     
    Most of what you hear from the MSM about the Tulsa Riot is false.

    The Tulsa Riot was caused by armed Blacks who marched to the courthouse in an attempt to protect a Black man who was accused of assaulting a White woman:


    In Greenwood, rumors began to fly—in particular, a report that whites were storming the courthouse. Shortly after 10 pm, a second, larger group of approximately 75 armed black men decided to go to the courthouse. They offered their support to the sheriff, who declined their help. According to witnesses, a white man is alleged to have told one of the armed black men to surrender his pistol. The man refused, and a shot was fired. That first shot may have been accidental, or meant as a warning; it was a catalyst for an exchange of gunfire.[15]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre#Stand-off_at_the_courthouse

    If the armed Blacks had not intervened, there likely would have been no riot.And Blacks did most of the killing on the first day of the riot:

    Day one death toll:

    Whites: 10

    Blacks: 2

    The stories about aeroplanes firebombing black-owned properties is utter crap.And the high numbers of deaths that you see people tossing around (100 to 300) are just pulled out of thin air. The official tally from The Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921 is 39 deaths(counting a stillborn infant), 26 Blacks and 13 Whites, which is quite a distance from the mass slaughter of legend:

    https://www.okhistory.org/research/forms/freport.pdf


    Zoot Suit riots.
     
    The Plan of San Diego is more interesting:

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the "return of land to Mexicans." It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.

     


    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to "free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control" (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.
     

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of "North American" men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @baythoven

  13. Someone might consider taking an oral history now, before these people die off.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @SFG


    Someone might consider taking an oral history now, before these people die off.
     
    Who's going to fund this?
  14. @Oliver Elkington
    Sounds identical to what happened in London between 1970-2010(everything seems to happen a little later in Britain than it does in the States) most of the inner London areas saw a huge decline in their white population, that has slowed down in the last 10 years as many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be "quaint" and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there but what remains notable is that there are very few white families that remain there once their kids have entered school age and so the areas remain roughly split 50/50 between immigrant families and mostly childless white middle class.

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place, yes the space advantages are great but then in both cities one is only a short drive or rail journey away from some breath taking forests and river valleys. By abandoning the cities for the countryside whites have effectively made the cities less appealing as they have not managed to hold onto what made them great in the first place, the communities, the cultural life, the variety that only a big city can bring. We should have been more like the Spanish and the Germans, in those countries one can still find many large cities with largely native inhabitants, they are great places.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Almost Missouri, @YetAnotherAnon, @HammerJack

    Anglo-Saxons aren’t that city-oriented. The English aristocracy typically spent just the summers in their London townhouses and the other 9 months of the year on their country estates.

    • Agree: Oliver Elkington
    • Replies: @Oliver Elkington
    @Steve Sailer

    You have a strong point there, it is still the case in the UK now with most upper class English having a "town" and country house though 9 months are now typically spent working in London as they are less likely to lounge around these days, though for a period from the 19th century until the 1970s the white working class did have a strong presence in London but obviously they found the rural counties too tempting.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    , @HunInTheSun
    @Steve Sailer

    Germanics have always had an uneasy relationship with big cities.

    , @Nikolai Vladivostok
    @Steve Sailer

    This goes a long way back. When the Ango-Saxons arrived in England, they ignored large, developed Romano-Celtic cities like London and instead settled in many small villages.

  15. @JohnnyWalker123
    The reality is this.

    Up through the 50s, it was acceptable for Whites to engage in collective violence to defend their turf. That's why neighborhoods stayed White for a very long time.

    1906 Atlanta race riot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yyPjFpa3hQ

    Springfield race riot of 1908

    The Springfield race riot of 1908 were events of mass racial violence committed against African Americans by a mob of about 5,000 white Americans and European immigrants in Springfield, Illinois, between August 14 and 16, 1908. Two black men had been arrested as suspects in a rape, and attempted rape and murder. The alleged victims were two young white women and the father of one of them. When a mob seeking to lynch the men discovered the sheriff had transferred them out of the city, the whites furiously spread out to attack black neighborhoods, murdered black citizens on the streets, and destroyed black businesses and homes. The state militia was called out to quell the rioting.

     

    1919 Chicago riot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUzeZYFzTPg

    Tulsa race riots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-vFlEZU6s

    Zoot Suit riots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncqN1R-evYQ

    Article from Jared Taylor's American Renaissance.

    https://www.amren.com/news/2019/02/negrophobia-race-riots-in-america-mark-bauerlein/
     

    When Whites Hunted Blacks
     

    From the period after the War Between the States until the 1940s, race riots meant whites attacking blacks, usually in black areas. The last such riot took place in Detroit on June 20, 1943, when white mobs fought blacks in various parts of town, and even launched motorized raiding parties into black neighborhoods. Twenty-five blacks and nine whites died, in a culmination of tensions that arose from a sharp increase in the black population.

     
    There was a famous movie made called "Birth of a Nation."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmBEA12R-9U

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation

    the film portrays African-Americans (many of whom are played by white actors in blackface) as unintelligent and sexually aggressive toward white women. The film presents the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) as a heroic force necessary to preserve American values and a white supremacist social order.
     
    Here's what President Woodrow Wilson thought of the film.

    Wilson said of the film, "It is like writing history with lightning. And my only regret is that it is all so terribly true."
     
    Jewish groups didn't like the film. They protested it.

    So what changed in America?

    During the 60s and 70s, the US govt introduced aggressive measures to integrate schools (such as busing). The govt also banned racially restrictive covenants.

    Whites who fought back with violence went to jail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDqf0B2_j1A

    Or were suppressed by the police.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgM9sX7deOs

    Sometimes the troops had to be sent in.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WbLGlIzW88

    So it wasn't just push/pull.

    It was the govt taking strong action to suppress White collective action.

    Whites had their hands tied behind their backs by the courts, cops, military, politicians, media. So Whites couldn't fight back anymore. So Whites did the practical thing and fled. Simple as that.

    Let me offer you 2 choices.

    1. Live in a grimy urban neighborhood. Get into lots of street brawls with violent Blacks. Risk getting thrown in jail and spending years behind bars. Constantly get denounced by the politicians and media.

    2. Flee to beautiful suburbs and live an idyllic existence.

    Which choice would you select? Choose carefully.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Tulsa race riots.

    Most of what you hear from the MSM about the Tulsa Riot is false.

    The Tulsa Riot was caused by armed Blacks who marched to the courthouse in an attempt to protect a Black man who was accused of assaulting a White woman:

    In Greenwood, rumors began to fly—in particular, a report that whites were storming the courthouse. Shortly after 10 pm, a second, larger group of approximately 75 armed black men decided to go to the courthouse. They offered their support to the sheriff, who declined their help. According to witnesses, a white man is alleged to have told one of the armed black men to surrender his pistol. The man refused, and a shot was fired. That first shot may have been accidental, or meant as a warning; it was a catalyst for an exchange of gunfire.[15]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre#Stand-off_at_the_courthouse

    If the armed Blacks had not intervened, there likely would have been no riot.And Blacks did most of the killing on the first day of the riot:

    Day one death toll:

    Whites: 10

    Blacks: 2

    The stories about aeroplanes firebombing black-owned properties is utter crap.And the high numbers of deaths that you see people tossing around (100 to 300) are just pulled out of thin air. The official tally from The Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921 is 39 deaths(counting a stillborn infant), 26 Blacks and 13 Whites, which is quite a distance from the mass slaughter of legend:

    https://www.okhistory.org/research/forms/freport.pdf

    Zoot Suit riots.

    The Plan of San Diego is more interesting:

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the “return of land to Mexicans.” It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.

    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to “free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control” (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of “North American” men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Sure, a lot of the official narrative is misstated.

    My point mostly is this.

    Back in the old days (pre-60s), Whites were allowed to fight back. Now they aren't allowed to fight back.

    That's why Whites flee Black crime and violence.

    Meanwhile in Israel, the local Jews aren't just allowed to fight back, they're encouraged. Not surprisingly, the local Palestinians and African migrants are scared of Jews.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA&t=481s

    Interestingly, Jews were pivotal in pushing for Civil Rights back in the 60s.

    It's also interesting to note that the US gives $3 billion/yr in aid to Israel.

    Nancy Pelosi loves Israel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVEUshl0Z6Q

    , @baythoven
    @syonredux


    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the “return of land to Mexicans.” It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed...
     
    HA HA HA HA HA. As if that crackpot scheme might otherwise have had some chance of success. Wikipedia History does provide some amusement. "The Plan of San Diego." Sounds impressive, though one fantasizing a puffed-up image of earlier Mexican presence and power might be a bit let down to find it refers not to the California city, but to a dusty little south Texas backwater.
  16. fnn says:

    Gov. Adlai Stevenson called up the National Guard to suppress anti-black riots in Cicero, Il in 1951. While not passing any judgment, it’s interesting to point out that Cicero was run (continuously) by a GOP machine founded by Al Capone and led by his successors until 2002. On the South Side of Chicago, the Trumbull Park Homes housing project in South Deering was the scene of anti-black riots and bombings for several years in the 1950s. The resistance was successful, the area would not be integrated until the collapse of the steel industry in the 1980s. There were no fatalities, the highly skilled bombers presumably got their training courtesy of the US military during WW2 and/or the Korean War.

  17. @Steve Sailer
    @Oliver Elkington

    Anglo-Saxons aren't that city-oriented. The English aristocracy typically spent just the summers in their London townhouses and the other 9 months of the year on their country estates.

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington, @HunInTheSun, @Nikolai Vladivostok

    You have a strong point there, it is still the case in the UK now with most upper class English having a “town” and country house though 9 months are now typically spent working in London as they are less likely to lounge around these days, though for a period from the 19th century until the 1970s the white working class did have a strong presence in London but obviously they found the rural counties too tempting.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Oliver Elkington

    What do you think of Glasgow?

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington

  18. @syonredux
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Tulsa race riots.
     
    Most of what you hear from the MSM about the Tulsa Riot is false.

    The Tulsa Riot was caused by armed Blacks who marched to the courthouse in an attempt to protect a Black man who was accused of assaulting a White woman:


    In Greenwood, rumors began to fly—in particular, a report that whites were storming the courthouse. Shortly after 10 pm, a second, larger group of approximately 75 armed black men decided to go to the courthouse. They offered their support to the sheriff, who declined their help. According to witnesses, a white man is alleged to have told one of the armed black men to surrender his pistol. The man refused, and a shot was fired. That first shot may have been accidental, or meant as a warning; it was a catalyst for an exchange of gunfire.[15]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre#Stand-off_at_the_courthouse

    If the armed Blacks had not intervened, there likely would have been no riot.And Blacks did most of the killing on the first day of the riot:

    Day one death toll:

    Whites: 10

    Blacks: 2

    The stories about aeroplanes firebombing black-owned properties is utter crap.And the high numbers of deaths that you see people tossing around (100 to 300) are just pulled out of thin air. The official tally from The Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921 is 39 deaths(counting a stillborn infant), 26 Blacks and 13 Whites, which is quite a distance from the mass slaughter of legend:

    https://www.okhistory.org/research/forms/freport.pdf


    Zoot Suit riots.
     
    The Plan of San Diego is more interesting:

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the "return of land to Mexicans." It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.

     


    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to "free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control" (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.
     

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of "North American" men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @baythoven

    Sure, a lot of the official narrative is misstated.

    My point mostly is this.

    Back in the old days (pre-60s), Whites were allowed to fight back. Now they aren’t allowed to fight back.

    That’s why Whites flee Black crime and violence.

    Meanwhile in Israel, the local Jews aren’t just allowed to fight back, they’re encouraged. Not surprisingly, the local Palestinians and African migrants are scared of Jews.

    Interestingly, Jews were pivotal in pushing for Civil Rights back in the 60s.

    It’s also interesting to note that the US gives $3 billion/yr in aid to Israel.

    Nancy Pelosi loves Israel.

    • Agree: Gordo
  19. @Oliver Elkington
    @Steve Sailer

    You have a strong point there, it is still the case in the UK now with most upper class English having a "town" and country house though 9 months are now typically spent working in London as they are less likely to lounge around these days, though for a period from the 19th century until the 1970s the white working class did have a strong presence in London but obviously they found the rural counties too tempting.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    What do you think of Glasgow?

    • Replies: @Oliver Elkington
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it's white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you'll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don't know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @JohnnyWalker123, @Wilkey, @YetAnotherAnon

  20. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Oliver Elkington

    What do you think of Glasgow?

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it’s white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you’ll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don’t know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Oliver Elkington

    When David Niven served in the British army, he judged Glasgow to be the absolute pits! Sincerely glad to learn that it has improved in the interim!

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Oliver Elkington

    Please keep commenting. We need more knowledgeable British posters on here.

    , @Wilkey
    @Oliver Elkington


    Glasgow...it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don’t know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.
     
    This would be Glasgow in an "independent" Scotland run by the Scottish "Nationalist" Party and the EU? That Scotland?

    In that Scotland whites in Glasgow have been turned into a minority in the first week of independence.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Oliver Elkington

    "I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it’s white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million."

    That's because 90% of immigrants head for England and Wales. But there were still enough to commit the worst racist murder in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald

    "Found the locals there very friendly"

    Are you English? If so that's cheerful news, not been there for yonks and generally try to get out asap, heading for the A84. Great chippies though, battered haggis! Be interesting to know more about being an Englishman in Glasgow.

    Scotland has twice the homicide rate of the UK, and it's concentrated in the Central Belt, tending towards the Glasgow end. A lot of gang-related stuff, Dublin style feuds between crime families.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/scot-charged-murder-dutch-criminal-22183352

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington

  21. Thanks, that was quite an interesting read. I wonder what will happen to NYC in the near future – the virus has disrupted quite a few things. I know some people who are trying to move away, and if that momentum builds the 70s Bronx might become a reality again but this time for most of the city.

  22. “In particular, he was struck by the loud music that his neighbors played at all hours of the night and their tendency to throw garbage out of their windows.”

    Yeah, that’ll sink a neighborhood every time. But Puerto Ricans operate under the remarkable belief that they saved the Bronx.

  23. E. Michael Jones: The Slaughter of Cities.

  24. There was “Common Ground” with Jane Curtin. Here’s the Howard Stern interview:

  25. @Dan Hayes
    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse (hitherto the Jewish Mecca) to Co-Op City and then in turn being driven out of Co-Op City by the usual suspects!

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon

    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse

    Absorbing 2013 exploration from New York magazine on the how the destruction of the Bronx may have influenced Stanley Kubrick’s themes of recurring (lost) pasts and parallel timelines in The Shining:

    ‘I Know What The Shining Is Really About’: Inside the Crowded Cult at the Overlook Hotel

    This is what I had: The Shining was nothing if not a story of childhood fears, an attempt to come to terms with being born into a fallen, increasingly terrifying world. Far from Kubrick’s supposed hermetically sealed standoffishness, the film was a desperately interior work, the closest the director ever got to autobiography. It was his memoir film, a preteen action-adventure story with Danny, the boy who could “shine”—see what others could not—serving as a stand-in for the boyhood Kubrick.

    I turned up a clue, what Bill Blakemore would call “a confirmer,” at the Majestic Court apartments at 2715 Grand Concourse, where Kubrick lived in his teenage years. None of the Dominican and Chinese people in the building’s once stately, now tatty, dimly lit lobby had heard of Kubrick, but the great director’s presence was palpable. Opposite the elevator was a series of sectioned windows. Each of the center panels bore a gilt-edged likeness to Louis XIV–era figures. The Barry Lyndon connective could not be ignored. There seemed no way the young Kubrick could have missed the paintings while heading to see yet another dream-life double bill at the nearby, resplendent Loew’s Paradise, now home to the World Changers Church, Creflo and Taffi Dollar, Pastors.

    [MORE]

    My visit to P.S. 3 on Lafontaine Avenue proved unsatisfying. The school was built in 1995; no one knew of an earlier incarnation of P.S. 3. However, a simple Internet search led to a July 18, 2012, Daily News article detailing a six-alarm fire on Walton Avenue, not far from Yankee Stadium. With 28 firefighters injured, the paper reported, the fire recalled another blaze on October 12, 1977, during the second game of the World Series. With the Yanks trailing the Dodgers 2-0 in the first inning, Howard Cosell commented on a shot from the aerial camera. “There it is, ladies and gentlemen,” Cosell famously if mythically intoned, “the Bronx is burning.” The 1977 fire, the News wrote, “began in the vacant P.S. 3 at 158th Street and Melrose.”

    Funny how a seemingly stray factoid can forge the way to theoretical cornucopia. In the memorable early scene in The Shining, Danny eats a bowl of ice cream given him by Scatman Crothers’s character, Dick Hallorann, the kindly Overlook Hotel chef. Aware that Hallorann is also possessed with the gift of “shining,” Danny asks if there is “something bad” at the Overlook. Hallorann grimaces. He knows Danny’s “shining” ability far exceeds his own, so he cannot lie. Choosing his words carefully, Hallorann explains that many things have gone on at the hotel through the years, “and not all of them was good.” By way of explanation, Hallorann says, “When something happens, it can leave a trace of itself behind … say, like, if someone burns toast.”

    From there, it was easy enough to put together. Like the Overlook, the South Bronx was a realm of ghosts. If you could “shine,” which Hallorann says is seeing “things that haven’t happened yet” and “things that happened a long time ago,” then you’d gain access to the entire, terrible tableau: the European immigrants in their apartments thinking finally they were safe from the knock on the door, then the faces on the streets changed color, the fear of the unknown set in, leading to the moving vans bound for Jersey, Long Island, and the rest. Then they’d come, the agents of the insurance-mad landlords, the hooded arsonists stepping from the darkness with the can of kerosene they splashed across the lobby floor. A lit match flew across space, the flames shot up, and sirens filled the air. Between 1970 and 1980, more than 300,000 souls disappeared from the census rolls, a whole city of phantoms.

    There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood. Even behind the stone walls of his Childwickbury Manor, he kept up with the New York media and events in his hometown. He couldn’t fail to notice stories about the Savage Skulls marching down Fox Street. How far-fetched is it to assume he was aware of the fire at P.S. 3, where he spent the most terrible of his pre-Graflex years? As a boy, he was a die-hard Yankees fan, sitting in the bleachers to be near his idol, Joe DiMaggio, whom he’d later photograph for Look. In 1999, the two sons of the Bronx would die within hours of each other. He was still a follower of the sport, so it made sense that Kubrick would have had no small interest in a ­Dodgers-Yankees World Series.

    Kubrick was gone before the terror started, but still, this was his world, these were his streets. Now they were being burned to ashes, one more bit of the past being gouged away, just the way the world of his forefathers had vanished from Europe—the hideous cycle of history spinning, a circle closing shut, one more mordant har-de-har of the human condition.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes, HammerJack
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    If you've got 15 minutes to kill, check this out. Pretty interesting stuff, and it's an autism soother.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1v9EKLQD_g

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    "There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood."

    Wrong. Kubrick completely left the Bronx behind him.

    Vulture/New York Magazine is such garbage. Stanley Kubrick is one of the most overrated directors of all time. He lacked any humanity. It's good that he disavowed Spartacus, because the humanity of Kirk Douglas and Dalton Trumbo saved the picture from Kubrick, just as Douglas, Calder Willingham, and Jim Thompson saved Paths of Glory from him, and Peter Sellers saved Strangelove from him.

    This mook's reasoning reminds me of Louis Farrakhan and his "numerology."

  26. You’ll find A pretty good description of a lower-middle-class Bronx Jewish neighborhood and how it was destroyed on pages 850-894 of The Power Broker, chapters called One Mile, andOneMile Aftermath.

    There’s further tale in the book of the destruction of Scandinavian Sunset Park in Brooklyn, but not as in-depth.

    Caro has gone out of his way to make the case that Moses hated blacks and built parks without bus access, and kept temperatures in pools near black neighborhoods lower than other pools, on the idea that blacks (because of lower body fat percentages?) would avoid colder pools, so explicit segregation was not necessary. However, when talking about theBronx it’s more important to show The deleterious effects of Moses’roads, so the road building destroys the southern edge of the neighborhood, causing cheap property, filled by non-Jews who engage in crime against Jews, and eventually the whole neighborhood flips.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @TomSchmidt

    According to Caro, both Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson were completely irredeemable. Maybe true for LBJ, but definitely not true for Moses!

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    , @anonymous
    @TomSchmidt

    Marshall Berman wrote a whole book inspired by Moses' destruction of the Bronx, "All That Is Solid Melts Into Air".

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Obee

    , @Obee
    @TomSchmidt

    Even Caro gives little credence to the swimming pool story. The pool in question was in Italian Harlem. To believe it you would have to believe all these refugees from Naples and Palermo liked bathing in waters with the temperature of the Baltic.

    At the time Jones Beach and the Southern State Parkway of the low Bridges was built the black population of NYC was under 5%. Moses told his great friend Al Smith that he desired to keep riff raff from Jones Beach. Smith replied, “People like me.” Meaning of course white ethnics who were in the vast majority of the City’s lower orders.

    Moses disliked many people starting with Eleanore Roosevelt. Blacks were way down the list.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  27. At first it was pull, then push. When my wife’s parents were looking for a home after WWII, housing was in extremely short supply in the city of Philadelphia, its population swollen by war workers. Even getting a rental was hard. There were few existing houses for sale and no room to build new ones – the city was fully built up. However, just outside the city there was farmland on which new housing developments were now being built. True, it was inconvenient – you had to drive to work, drive to shopping, drive everywhere. Not only did you need one car for Dad to drive to work, you needed another one for Mom to drive the kids around and do errands. There weren’t even sidewalks.

    But the houses were cheap and affordable with a VA mortgage and available – they sprung up like mushrooms and were yours for the asking – you didn’t need to wait for someone to die for a house to become available. And the houses were brand new – no creaky floors and sticky windows. Yes they were shoddily built but since they were on cheap farmland everyone got an ample yard, much bigger than any yard in the city. You weren’t right on top of your neighbors. Every house was free standing. You didn’t have to listen to your neighbor’s family quarrels thru the party wall.

    Later, more and more blacks were moving into the city and eventually they made things unlivable for the remaining whites – my wife’s grandparents ended up being the last white people on their block and eventually had to move to the suburbs in their old age.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @Jack D

    Urbanists tend to discount the genuine appeal of suburban life to lots of young families in the post-war period. Due to their own preferences for city life, they often assume that urban life is inherently superior, and that people would naturally choose to live in cities unless driven out by their own racial fears (unfounded of course), their addiction to automobile culture, etc.

    Actually, for a lot of anodyne reasons, many parents with young kids simply consider the suburban environment more suitable for families with children. Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.

    At different phases of one's life, different kinds of housing environments make sense.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jim Don Bob, @TomSchmidt

  28. @International Jew

    nobody wants to hear from them
     
    Well, there's fiction. In the happy ending to Philip Roth's The Plot Against America, Newark's Jewish neighborhood narrowly escapes destruction. But reading it, I was struck by the politically incorrect thought that in the ensuing decades of real life, that destruction did occur. And it wasn't fictional fascists that did it.

    For a nonfictional account, there's Philly War Zone.

    Replies: @sayless

    Also see The Black Panthers in Dorchester: A Forgotten History by Devlin Hilton, about the violent ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community there. It’s an article, discusses a book called The Death of an American Jewish Community. Well-written, quite sad.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @sayless

    That's where Meir Kahane, and the Jewish Defense League, Got their start, defending the Jews of Dorchester.

    , @Alden
    @sayless

    I’ve read that book. Author wrote a lot about the wealthy civil rights Jews who lived in the wealthy suburbs helping destroy Jewish Boston neighborhoods as well as goy Boston neighborhoods.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @sayless

    Thanks for heads-up! Heartbreaking story. I didn't know the Panthers wreaked their racial terrorism in Boston, too.

  29. This is Norman Rockwell’s address on the 1900 Census. It’s in Sugar Hill on Manhattan, but a short stroll from what would be Yankee Stadium. He went to high school in Mamaroneck, and his sons were born in New Rochelle. (H/T Carl Reiner, for making it famous.)

    So white flight may have been going on for a long time. Of course, they may have been fleeing other whites.

    The Push and Pull Dynamics of White Flight

    These big white beasts are magnificent, but they don’t fly:

  30. @Oliver Elkington
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it's white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you'll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don't know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @JohnnyWalker123, @Wilkey, @YetAnotherAnon

    When David Niven served in the British army, he judged Glasgow to be the absolute pits! Sincerely glad to learn that it has improved in the interim!

    • LOL: Oliver Elkington
  31. @TomSchmidt
    You'll find A pretty good description of a lower-middle-class Bronx Jewish neighborhood and how it was destroyed on pages 850-894 of The Power Broker, chapters called One Mile, andOneMile Aftermath.

    There's further tale in the book of the destruction of Scandinavian Sunset Park in Brooklyn, but not as in-depth.

    Caro has gone out of his way to make the case that Moses hated blacks and built parks without bus access, and kept temperatures in pools near black neighborhoods lower than other pools, on the idea that blacks (because of lower body fat percentages?) would avoid colder pools, so explicit segregation was not necessary. However, when talking about theBronx it's more important to show The deleterious effects of Moses'roads, so the road building destroys the southern edge of the neighborhood, causing cheap property, filled by non-Jews who engage in crime against Jews, and eventually the whole neighborhood flips.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @anonymous, @Obee

    According to Caro, both Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson were completely irredeemable. Maybe true for LBJ, but definitely not true for Moses!

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Dan Hayes

    I don't get that sense about Moses. Of course, his attitudes towards blacks are likely to get things named after him renamed. But there is real admiration in Caro for what Moses achieved over the winter of 33-34 as Parks Commissioner for NYC, for how he put together (on a shoestring budget) the financing for the Henry Hudson Parkway, for the artistic and not-cheapest-quality approach taken at Jones Beach, spending a lot to make it beautiful, not just cinder-block present.

    He does structure the book like a morality play, the good reformer who gets burned, becomes a master politician, and falls from grace eventually. We like that story; we've read it since Icarus.

  32. @Steve Sailer
    @Oliver Elkington

    Anglo-Saxons aren't that city-oriented. The English aristocracy typically spent just the summers in their London townhouses and the other 9 months of the year on their country estates.

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington, @HunInTheSun, @Nikolai Vladivostok

    Germanics have always had an uneasy relationship with big cities.

  33. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Dan Hayes


    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse
     
    Absorbing 2013 exploration from New York magazine on the how the destruction of the Bronx may have influenced Stanley Kubrick’s themes of recurring (lost) pasts and parallel timelines in The Shining:

    ‘I Know What The Shining Is Really About’: Inside the Crowded Cult at the Overlook Hotel


    This is what I had: The Shining was nothing if not a story of childhood fears, an attempt to come to terms with being born into a fallen, increasingly terrifying world. Far from Kubrick’s supposed hermetically sealed standoffishness, the film was a desperately interior work, the closest the director ever got to autobiography. It was his memoir film, a preteen action-adventure story with Danny, the boy who could “shine”—see what others could not—serving as a stand-in for the boyhood Kubrick.

    I turned up a clue, what Bill Blakemore would call “a confirmer,” at the Majestic Court apartments at 2715 Grand Concourse, where Kubrick lived in his teenage years. None of the Dominican and Chinese people in the building’s once stately, now tatty, dimly lit lobby had heard of Kubrick, but the great director’s presence was palpable. Opposite the elevator was a series of sectioned windows. Each of the center panels bore a gilt-edged likeness to Louis XIV–era figures. The Barry Lyndon connective could not be ignored. There seemed no way the young Kubrick could have missed the paintings while heading to see yet another dream-life double bill at the nearby, resplendent Loew’s Paradise, now home to the World Changers Church, Creflo and Taffi Dollar, Pastors.
     


    My visit to P.S. 3 on Lafontaine Avenue proved unsatisfying. The school was built in 1995; no one knew of an earlier incarnation of P.S. 3. However, a simple Internet search led to a July 18, 2012, Daily News article detailing a six-alarm fire on Walton Avenue, not far from Yankee Stadium. With 28 firefighters injured, the paper reported, the fire recalled another blaze on October 12, 1977, during the second game of the World Series. With the Yanks trailing the Dodgers 2-0 in the first inning, Howard Cosell commented on a shot from the aerial camera. “There it is, ladies and gentlemen,” Cosell famously if mythically intoned, “the Bronx is burning.” The 1977 fire, the News wrote, “began in the vacant P.S. 3 at 158th Street and Melrose.”

    Funny how a seemingly stray factoid can forge the way to theoretical cornucopia. In the memorable early scene in The Shining, Danny eats a bowl of ice cream given him by Scatman Crothers’s character, Dick Hallorann, the kindly Overlook Hotel chef. Aware that Hallorann is also possessed with the gift of “shining,” Danny asks if there is “something bad” at the Overlook. Hallorann grimaces. He knows Danny’s “shining” ability far exceeds his own, so he cannot lie. Choosing his words carefully, Hallorann explains that many things have gone on at the hotel through the years, “and not all of them was good.” By way of explanation, Hallorann says, “When something happens, it can leave a trace of itself behind … say, like, if someone burns toast.”

    From there, it was easy enough to put together. Like the Overlook, the South Bronx was a realm of ghosts. If you could “shine,” which Hallorann says is seeing “things that haven’t happened yet” and “things that happened a long time ago,” then you’d gain access to the entire, terrible tableau: the European immigrants in their apartments thinking finally they were safe from the knock on the door, then the faces on the streets changed color, the fear of the unknown set in, leading to the moving vans bound for Jersey, Long Island, and the rest. Then they’d come, the agents of the insurance-mad landlords, the hooded arsonists stepping from the darkness with the can of kerosene they splashed across the lobby floor. A lit match flew across space, the flames shot up, and sirens filled the air. Between 1970 and 1980, more than 300,000 souls disappeared from the census rolls, a whole city of phantoms.

    There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood. Even behind the stone walls of his Childwickbury Manor, he kept up with the New York media and events in his hometown. He couldn’t fail to notice stories about the Savage Skulls marching down Fox Street. How far-fetched is it to assume he was aware of the fire at P.S. 3, where he spent the most terrible of his pre-Graflex years? As a boy, he was a die-hard Yankees fan, sitting in the bleachers to be near his idol, Joe DiMaggio, whom he’d later photograph for Look. In 1999, the two sons of the Bronx would die within hours of each other. He was still a follower of the sport, so it made sense that Kubrick would have had no small interest in a ­Dodgers-Yankees World Series.

    Kubrick was gone before the terror started, but still, this was his world, these were his streets. Now they were being burned to ashes, one more bit of the past being gouged away, just the way the world of his forefathers had vanished from Europe—the hideous cycle of history spinning, a circle closing shut, one more mordant har-de-har of the human condition.
     

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Nicholas Stix

    If you’ve got 15 minutes to kill, check this out. Pretty interesting stuff, and it’s an autism soother.

  34. Any neighborhood is nice before blacks move in. And awful afterwards.

  35. @Oliver Elkington
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it's white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you'll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don't know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @JohnnyWalker123, @Wilkey, @YetAnotherAnon

    Please keep commenting. We need more knowledgeable British posters on here.

    • Thanks: Oliver Elkington
  36. @Steve Sailer
    @Oliver Elkington

    Anglo-Saxons aren't that city-oriented. The English aristocracy typically spent just the summers in their London townhouses and the other 9 months of the year on their country estates.

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington, @HunInTheSun, @Nikolai Vladivostok

    This goes a long way back. When the Ango-Saxons arrived in England, they ignored large, developed Romano-Celtic cities like London and instead settled in many small villages.

  37. @Oliver Elkington
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it's white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you'll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don't know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @JohnnyWalker123, @Wilkey, @YetAnotherAnon

    Glasgow…it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don’t know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    This would be Glasgow in an “independent” Scotland run by the Scottish “Nationalist” Party and the EU? That Scotland?

    In that Scotland whites in Glasgow have been turned into a minority in the first week of independence.

  38. @SFG
    Someone might consider taking an oral history now, before these people die off.

    Replies: @Gordo

    Someone might consider taking an oral history now, before these people die off.

    Who’s going to fund this?

  39. @Oliver Elkington
    Sounds identical to what happened in London between 1970-2010(everything seems to happen a little later in Britain than it does in the States) most of the inner London areas saw a huge decline in their white population, that has slowed down in the last 10 years as many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be "quaint" and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there but what remains notable is that there are very few white families that remain there once their kids have entered school age and so the areas remain roughly split 50/50 between immigrant families and mostly childless white middle class.

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place, yes the space advantages are great but then in both cities one is only a short drive or rail journey away from some breath taking forests and river valleys. By abandoning the cities for the countryside whites have effectively made the cities less appealing as they have not managed to hold onto what made them great in the first place, the communities, the cultural life, the variety that only a big city can bring. We should have been more like the Spanish and the Germans, in those countries one can still find many large cities with largely native inhabitants, they are great places.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Almost Missouri, @YetAnotherAnon, @HammerJack

    Welfare* + public transport-dependent underclass = abandonment of the cities.

    *”The Dole” to you

    Germany and Spain (and the rest of non-Visegrad Europe) were formerly smart enough not to import a violent welfare-dependent underclass. Sadly, Merkel, the EU and US pressure have overturned this, and so continental European cities will increasingly resemble those of the US and UK. Let us hope that the Visegrad countries can hold out until the insane New World Order collapses.

  40. @Jack D
    At first it was pull, then push. When my wife's parents were looking for a home after WWII, housing was in extremely short supply in the city of Philadelphia, its population swollen by war workers. Even getting a rental was hard. There were few existing houses for sale and no room to build new ones - the city was fully built up. However, just outside the city there was farmland on which new housing developments were now being built. True, it was inconvenient - you had to drive to work, drive to shopping, drive everywhere. Not only did you need one car for Dad to drive to work, you needed another one for Mom to drive the kids around and do errands. There weren't even sidewalks.

    But the houses were cheap and affordable with a VA mortgage and available - they sprung up like mushrooms and were yours for the asking - you didn't need to wait for someone to die for a house to become available. And the houses were brand new - no creaky floors and sticky windows. Yes they were shoddily built but since they were on cheap farmland everyone got an ample yard, much bigger than any yard in the city. You weren't right on top of your neighbors. Every house was free standing. You didn't have to listen to your neighbor's family quarrels thru the party wall.

    Later, more and more blacks were moving into the city and eventually they made things unlivable for the remaining whites - my wife's grandparents ended up being the last white people on their block and eventually had to move to the suburbs in their old age.

    Replies: @black sea

    Urbanists tend to discount the genuine appeal of suburban life to lots of young families in the post-war period. Due to their own preferences for city life, they often assume that urban life is inherently superior, and that people would naturally choose to live in cities unless driven out by their own racial fears (unfounded of course), their addiction to automobile culture, etc.

    Actually, for a lot of anodyne reasons, many parents with young kids simply consider the suburban environment more suitable for families with children. Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.

    At different phases of one’s life, different kinds of housing environments make sense.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @black sea

    "Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city."

    Does that really happen in the States? I can't imagine a couple approaching their 60s moving back to London or Birmingham, having left it to raise kids.

    I know people who have flats in London for weekend visits, theatres, proms, but they've all kept their homes elsewhere. Much more common are the retired couple kicking around a four or five bedroomed property.

    Replies: @black sea

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @black sea

    Well said. There is a real hatred of suburbia by many of the elite and by urban planners who think everything should be like the Paris of their imagination - you walk to the baker, say hello to the butcher, have an expresso at the sidewalk cafe, etc. And so you end up with new apartment buildings with retail on the first floor in an attempt to recreate this. Problem is that unless the retail serves the people very nearby, it will fail because there is little to no parking.

    I talked to a German guy at a conference who I knew had been brought to Cincinatti with his family to work for several years at corporate HQ. I gently asked him how he liked the US, expecting to hear some kind of rant about racism, etc. Instead, he said he and his family loved it. They had a nice house with a yard, they had enough money for a second car, and his son loved American girls.

    , @TomSchmidt
    @black sea

    There's a different sort of discounting with commuting. The book Happy City talks about people who spend more time commuting to get either a lower priced house or a larger house at the same price. The initial benefit of the cheaper/larger house is one that soon becomes hedonically adjusted away, as people adapt to the new situation. Meanwhile, the ongoing stress of commuting exacts its daily toll.

    One good thing about COVID is the number of people who've discovered how much that commute sucks. One bad thing is the number of companies that have discovered that they do not have to have people in office to do work; the next thing they'll discover is that they don't have to pay people sitting in expensive suburbs to do the work when they can pay people in flyover states a lower salary, but a boost to the flyover people. Then they'll outsource the jobs to Poland or Ukraine, and eventually India.

    Until that all happens, however, the stress of car commuting is gone from a good portion of the USA, and that is a good thing.

  41. anonymous[622] • Disclaimer says:
    @TomSchmidt
    You'll find A pretty good description of a lower-middle-class Bronx Jewish neighborhood and how it was destroyed on pages 850-894 of The Power Broker, chapters called One Mile, andOneMile Aftermath.

    There's further tale in the book of the destruction of Scandinavian Sunset Park in Brooklyn, but not as in-depth.

    Caro has gone out of his way to make the case that Moses hated blacks and built parks without bus access, and kept temperatures in pools near black neighborhoods lower than other pools, on the idea that blacks (because of lower body fat percentages?) would avoid colder pools, so explicit segregation was not necessary. However, when talking about theBronx it's more important to show The deleterious effects of Moses'roads, so the road building destroys the southern edge of the neighborhood, causing cheap property, filled by non-Jews who engage in crime against Jews, and eventually the whole neighborhood flips.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @anonymous, @Obee

    Marshall Berman wrote a whole book inspired by Moses’ destruction of the Bronx, “All That Is Solid Melts Into Air”.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @anonymous

    Thanks, I'll need to read that.

    , @Obee
    @anonymous

    The evil of the Cross Bronx Expressway is oversold. By the 1950s the South Bronx was a minority slum pushing north against the ethnics. Just over the Bridge Jersey beckoned. The last to leave, say by the late 60s, were the Concourse Jews. None of these folks were likely to remain Cross Bronx or no Cross Bronx.

    In comparison The Narrows Bridge Approach obliterated parts of Bay Ridge. Nonetheless Bay Ridge and Dyker Hgts. et Alia continued and improved to this day.

    Moses Title I Slum Clearance did not concentrate on minority neighborhoods. Cadman Plaza, Fort Greene, San Juan, Rockaway Park, South Village were not Harlem. Lower Manhattan Expressway would have not affected blacks. If anyone would have been affected by a sunken Fifth Avenue through Washington Square it was the rich of lower Fifth and Washington Square West.

    Replies: @Raz

  42. @Oliver Elkington
    Sounds identical to what happened in London between 1970-2010(everything seems to happen a little later in Britain than it does in the States) most of the inner London areas saw a huge decline in their white population, that has slowed down in the last 10 years as many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be "quaint" and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there but what remains notable is that there are very few white families that remain there once their kids have entered school age and so the areas remain roughly split 50/50 between immigrant families and mostly childless white middle class.

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place, yes the space advantages are great but then in both cities one is only a short drive or rail journey away from some breath taking forests and river valleys. By abandoning the cities for the countryside whites have effectively made the cities less appealing as they have not managed to hold onto what made them great in the first place, the communities, the cultural life, the variety that only a big city can bring. We should have been more like the Spanish and the Germans, in those countries one can still find many large cities with largely native inhabitants, they are great places.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Almost Missouri, @YetAnotherAnon, @HammerJack

    “many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be “quaint” and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there”

    Young people are still drawn to London as a place to kick off a career, esp in law or the City, and they have to live somewhere, I’m not sure how important the architecture is. Most of London is still Victorian terracing. The very pretty mews cottages are unaffordable unless you’re a City whizz.

    Places like Brixton and Clapham are being recolonised by young white graduates (as Notting Hill has been). The people driven out in the sixties were families and older people.

    Everyone leaves London when they have kids, those who don’t end up childless.

    Some of the worst of the London underclass (i.e. the ones that no one will rent to without a YUGE government subsidy, no longer available after the 2015 eugenic welfare reforms – no benefits for any kids after #2) have been shipped out to places like Barnsley and Bradford.

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18554517.ross-kemp-hundreds-homeless-moved-bradford/

    TV presenter Ross Kemp has revealed that hundreds of homeless are being sent to Bradford by other councils to save money or because they have not got enough space to house them.

    The actor’s programme, being shown on ITV tonight at 7.30pm, reveals that nearly 300 households from 31 districts, including from London, Kent and Essex, had been moved to Bradford over the last two years.

    Ross Kemp said: “We are living in the middle of a housing crisis, with a shortfall of some four million homes. Local authorities are having to look outside their boroughs to find accommodation.”

    The programme found vulnerable families who agreed to be moved by local councils, sometimes many miles away from loved ones, in order to keep a roof over their heads.

  43. @Oliver Elkington
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it's white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million. Founds the locals there very friendly and not at all pretentious like in Edinburgh(which i think is more like posher parts of London and you'll probably agree though almost entirely civilised with no ghettos in evidence) the main problem with Glasgow is that it feels a bit crumbly in parts, i think the London government has neglected the city, maybe it might fare better if Scotland becomes independent, but i don't know, anyway i think it is a city with a lot of potential.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @JohnnyWalker123, @Wilkey, @YetAnotherAnon

    “I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it’s white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million.”

    That’s because 90% of immigrants head for England and Wales. But there were still enough to commit the worst racist murder in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald

    “Found the locals there very friendly”

    Are you English? If so that’s cheerful news, not been there for yonks and generally try to get out asap, heading for the A84. Great chippies though, battered haggis! Be interesting to know more about being an Englishman in Glasgow.

    Scotland has twice the homicide rate of the UK, and it’s concentrated in the Central Belt, tending towards the Glasgow end. A lot of gang-related stuff, Dublin style feuds between crime families.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/scot-charged-murder-dutch-criminal-22183352

    • Replies: @Oliver Elkington
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yes am English, people in Glasgow usually appreciate having visitors from England as they don't get that many English tourists(when i was there i maybe heard no more than a dozen English accents in the 5 days i was there) so will not see tourists as a nuisance compared to somewhere like Barcelona or Cornwall which tend to get full of English visitors which annoys the locals understandardly. Great haggis indeed! it was always an underrated dish, healthier i think than a burger and with a richer flavour it is a shame that the English have not taken up the haggis as enthusiastically as they have taken up the doner Kebab. Youre right there are some very grim suburbs i passed through on the train in Glasgow, gentrification still feels at least 40 years away across many of them.

  44. @black sea
    @Jack D

    Urbanists tend to discount the genuine appeal of suburban life to lots of young families in the post-war period. Due to their own preferences for city life, they often assume that urban life is inherently superior, and that people would naturally choose to live in cities unless driven out by their own racial fears (unfounded of course), their addiction to automobile culture, etc.

    Actually, for a lot of anodyne reasons, many parents with young kids simply consider the suburban environment more suitable for families with children. Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.

    At different phases of one's life, different kinds of housing environments make sense.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jim Don Bob, @TomSchmidt

    “Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.”

    Does that really happen in the States? I can’t imagine a couple approaching their 60s moving back to London or Birmingham, having left it to raise kids.

    I know people who have flats in London for weekend visits, theatres, proms, but they’ve all kept their homes elsewhere. Much more common are the retired couple kicking around a four or five bedroomed property.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yes, it happens with some frequency. Suburban life is really geared toward families with kids, and is less appealing once the kids are grown. Obviously people making such a move are selective about the neighborhoods they choose to relocate to. I won't bore you with the anecdotes, but it's fairly common.

  45. @Oliver Elkington
    Sounds identical to what happened in London between 1970-2010(everything seems to happen a little later in Britain than it does in the States) most of the inner London areas saw a huge decline in their white population, that has slowed down in the last 10 years as many hipsters have found the period Victorian architecture of the small homes to be "quaint" and so some of those areas have even seen an increase in British people living there but what remains notable is that there are very few white families that remain there once their kids have entered school age and so the areas remain roughly split 50/50 between immigrant families and mostly childless white middle class.

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place, yes the space advantages are great but then in both cities one is only a short drive or rail journey away from some breath taking forests and river valleys. By abandoning the cities for the countryside whites have effectively made the cities less appealing as they have not managed to hold onto what made them great in the first place, the communities, the cultural life, the variety that only a big city can bring. We should have been more like the Spanish and the Germans, in those countries one can still find many large cities with largely native inhabitants, they are great places.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Almost Missouri, @YetAnotherAnon, @HammerJack

    What i never understand was why whites in both London and NY were so eager to abandon these great cities in the first place

    Being held up at gunpoint, your wife raped and your kid’s head bashed in will open your eyes right quick.

    • Agree: Alden
  46. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Oliver Elkington

    "I like Glasgow, somehow it is managed to retain it’s white working class majority despite being a major city of nearly a million."

    That's because 90% of immigrants head for England and Wales. But there were still enough to commit the worst racist murder in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald

    "Found the locals there very friendly"

    Are you English? If so that's cheerful news, not been there for yonks and generally try to get out asap, heading for the A84. Great chippies though, battered haggis! Be interesting to know more about being an Englishman in Glasgow.

    Scotland has twice the homicide rate of the UK, and it's concentrated in the Central Belt, tending towards the Glasgow end. A lot of gang-related stuff, Dublin style feuds between crime families.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/scot-charged-murder-dutch-criminal-22183352

    Replies: @Oliver Elkington

    Yes am English, people in Glasgow usually appreciate having visitors from England as they don’t get that many English tourists(when i was there i maybe heard no more than a dozen English accents in the 5 days i was there) so will not see tourists as a nuisance compared to somewhere like Barcelona or Cornwall which tend to get full of English visitors which annoys the locals understandardly. Great haggis indeed! it was always an underrated dish, healthier i think than a burger and with a richer flavour it is a shame that the English have not taken up the haggis as enthusiastically as they have taken up the doner Kebab. Youre right there are some very grim suburbs i passed through on the train in Glasgow, gentrification still feels at least 40 years away across many of them.

  47. @Dan Hayes
    @TomSchmidt

    According to Caro, both Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson were completely irredeemable. Maybe true for LBJ, but definitely not true for Moses!

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    I don’t get that sense about Moses. Of course, his attitudes towards blacks are likely to get things named after him renamed. But there is real admiration in Caro for what Moses achieved over the winter of 33-34 as Parks Commissioner for NYC, for how he put together (on a shoestring budget) the financing for the Henry Hudson Parkway, for the artistic and not-cheapest-quality approach taken at Jones Beach, spending a lot to make it beautiful, not just cinder-block present.

    He does structure the book like a morality play, the good reformer who gets burned, becomes a master politician, and falls from grace eventually. We like that story; we’ve read it since Icarus.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  48. @anonymous
    @TomSchmidt

    Marshall Berman wrote a whole book inspired by Moses' destruction of the Bronx, "All That Is Solid Melts Into Air".

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Obee

    Thanks, I’ll need to read that.

  49. Anon[815] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Tom Wolfe described this in Bonfire of the Vanities, pp. 36-38 of the paperback version. Just go to Amazon, click "Look Inside", and type "Bronx" in the search field. 5th one down.

    Replies: @Anon

    My read of this coming as someone who grew up there, Wolfe was remarkably insightful and prescient in his description of the Bronx and NY. I later knew someone who was an assistant DA in the Bronx about the time of Bonfire and I asked him about Bonfire and the Bronx DA part and he said Wolfe got the dynamics pretty right.

  50. @Dan Hayes
    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse (hitherto the Jewish Mecca) to Co-Op City and then in turn being driven out of Co-Op City by the usual suspects!

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon

    Jews of that era had a curse to say to other Jews they had problems with:

    “May your neighborhood change”

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  51. @sayless
    @International Jew

    Also see The Black Panthers in Dorchester: A Forgotten History by Devlin Hilton, about the violent ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community there. It's an article, discusses a book called The Death of an American Jewish Community. Well-written, quite sad.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Alden, @Nicholas Stix

    That’s where Meir Kahane, and the Jewish Defense League, Got their start, defending the Jews of Dorchester.

  52. @black sea
    @Jack D

    Urbanists tend to discount the genuine appeal of suburban life to lots of young families in the post-war period. Due to their own preferences for city life, they often assume that urban life is inherently superior, and that people would naturally choose to live in cities unless driven out by their own racial fears (unfounded of course), their addiction to automobile culture, etc.

    Actually, for a lot of anodyne reasons, many parents with young kids simply consider the suburban environment more suitable for families with children. Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.

    At different phases of one's life, different kinds of housing environments make sense.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jim Don Bob, @TomSchmidt

    Well said. There is a real hatred of suburbia by many of the elite and by urban planners who think everything should be like the Paris of their imagination – you walk to the baker, say hello to the butcher, have an expresso at the sidewalk cafe, etc. And so you end up with new apartment buildings with retail on the first floor in an attempt to recreate this. Problem is that unless the retail serves the people very nearby, it will fail because there is little to no parking.

    I talked to a German guy at a conference who I knew had been brought to Cincinatti with his family to work for several years at corporate HQ. I gently asked him how he liked the US, expecting to hear some kind of rant about racism, etc. Instead, he said he and his family loved it. They had a nice house with a yard, they had enough money for a second car, and his son loved American girls.

  53. Raymond Wolters, in his books about desegregation of schools, has some Real Talk.

    I remember reading the “lauded” book, The Origins of the Urban Crisis, by “eminent” historian Thomas Sugrue, and being stunned that he never actually discussed crime, only the (presumably irrational) fears of crime. That was a big turning point in my realization that the Respectable People are very willing to straight-up lie on behalf of their cause.

    VDare, discussing Paul Kersey’s book on Detroit, describes the transition between 1943 (last white-on-black riot in Detroit) and 1967 (white flight after black-on-white riot).

    https://vdare.com/posts/we-almost-saved-detroit-the-crime-crackdown-of-1961
    https://vdare.com/articles/learn-whitey-learn-paul-kersey-s-escape-from-detroit

  54. The Chicago Public Schools boycott, also known as Freedom Day, was a mass boycott and demonstration against the segregationist policies of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS) on October 22, 1963.[1] More than 200,000 students stayed out of school, and tens of thousands of Chicagoans joined in a protest that culminated in a march to the office of the Chicago Board of Education.

    Although Brown v. Board of Education prohibited racial segregation in schools, in 1963, Chicago’s public schools continued to be segregated as a result of residential segregation.[3] This was exacerbated by the migration of more black Americans from the Southern United States to Chicago during the Jim Crow era.[4] School boundary lines were drawn specifically to preserve racial segregation, even as predominantly black schools grew overcrowded.[4] Classes were held in hallways, and there were not enough books for all of the students.[4] Some schools held double shifts, meaning students attended less than a full day of class.[5] Rather than send black students to underpopulated white schools, CPS Superintendent Benjamin Willis instituted the use of mobile classrooms; 625[6] aluminium trailers parked in the parking lots and playgrounds of overcrowded schools.[1] Rosie Simpson of Englewood, Chicago, coined the term “Willis Wagons” to describe the mobile classrooms. At one high school, these trailers were used to maintain segregation within the school; black students’ classes were held in Willis Wagons, while white students went to class in the school.[4]

    The Chicago Tribune reported that 224,770 students were absent from CPS, amounting to 47 percent of the student population.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools_boycott

    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Joe Stalin

    Between the upper class Protestants and Irish Polish Italian German and other Catholics there was a huge percentage of kids who attended catholic and private schools in Chicago. The boycotters were black public school students led by Jew civil rights activists.

    White Public school Protestant families were already fleeing to the suburbs because they didn’t have the private schools and ethnic solidarity that allowed the Catholics to hold on longer.

    It’s not just vicious dangerous black bullies in schools. Entire neighborhoods were destroyed by the Black Plague in just 10 years by robbery, rape, murder, assault and battery with great bodily injury , noise, and general nastiness the Black Plague brings wherever it goes.

    , @fnn
    @Joe Stalin


    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.
     
    North Siders, who in those days tended to have little experience with blacks. It wasn't like the media (even the then conservative Chicago Tribune) was going to tell them the truth.
    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Joe Stalin

    "So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago."

    What on Earth is that supposed to mean? Which "White students"? What "climate"?

  55. @black sea
    @Jack D

    Urbanists tend to discount the genuine appeal of suburban life to lots of young families in the post-war period. Due to their own preferences for city life, they often assume that urban life is inherently superior, and that people would naturally choose to live in cities unless driven out by their own racial fears (unfounded of course), their addiction to automobile culture, etc.

    Actually, for a lot of anodyne reasons, many parents with young kids simply consider the suburban environment more suitable for families with children. Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city.

    At different phases of one's life, different kinds of housing environments make sense.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jim Don Bob, @TomSchmidt

    There’s a different sort of discounting with commuting. The book Happy City talks about people who spend more time commuting to get either a lower priced house or a larger house at the same price. The initial benefit of the cheaper/larger house is one that soon becomes hedonically adjusted away, as people adapt to the new situation. Meanwhile, the ongoing stress of commuting exacts its daily toll.

    One good thing about COVID is the number of people who’ve discovered how much that commute sucks. One bad thing is the number of companies that have discovered that they do not have to have people in office to do work; the next thing they’ll discover is that they don’t have to pay people sitting in expensive suburbs to do the work when they can pay people in flyover states a lower salary, but a boost to the flyover people. Then they’ll outsource the jobs to Poland or Ukraine, and eventually India.

    Until that all happens, however, the stress of car commuting is gone from a good portion of the USA, and that is a good thing.

  56. Obee says:
    @TomSchmidt
    You'll find A pretty good description of a lower-middle-class Bronx Jewish neighborhood and how it was destroyed on pages 850-894 of The Power Broker, chapters called One Mile, andOneMile Aftermath.

    There's further tale in the book of the destruction of Scandinavian Sunset Park in Brooklyn, but not as in-depth.

    Caro has gone out of his way to make the case that Moses hated blacks and built parks without bus access, and kept temperatures in pools near black neighborhoods lower than other pools, on the idea that blacks (because of lower body fat percentages?) would avoid colder pools, so explicit segregation was not necessary. However, when talking about theBronx it's more important to show The deleterious effects of Moses'roads, so the road building destroys the southern edge of the neighborhood, causing cheap property, filled by non-Jews who engage in crime against Jews, and eventually the whole neighborhood flips.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @anonymous, @Obee

    Even Caro gives little credence to the swimming pool story. The pool in question was in Italian Harlem. To believe it you would have to believe all these refugees from Naples and Palermo liked bathing in waters with the temperature of the Baltic.

    At the time Jones Beach and the Southern State Parkway of the low Bridges was built the black population of NYC was under 5%. Moses told his great friend Al Smith that he desired to keep riff raff from Jones Beach. Smith replied, “People like me.” Meaning of course white ethnics who were in the vast majority of the City’s lower orders.

    Moses disliked many people starting with Eleanore Roosevelt. Blacks were way down the list.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Obee

    Deja Vu Again. In high school I worked in that Italian East Harlem swimming pool (Thomas Jefferson). During daytime, pool clients were blacks and Puerto Ricans. At dusk the pool was racially/ethnically cleansed by and for the local Italian Stallions. BTW, at that time I never heard any rumors of purposeful low water temperature. Anyway, it couldn't be done since pool waters were neither heated nor refrigerated!

    OT. I had already known that Moses was enraptured with Al Smith. I was unaware that he disliked Eleanor Roosevelt although I should have known since he was not a big FDR fan!

  57. That report was so sad. I grew up in Detroit (b 1961, left in 1979) in the same neighborhood my parents grew up in. I did not realize at the time that I was living in a society/culture/place that was steadily and precipitously declining. I know now that my attitude of “Fuck ’em!! towards almost everything, to this very day, has strong roots in watching a wonderful place destroyed before my own growing eyes. All we held dear was demolished a piece at a time. Makes me want to cry.

  58. @YetAnotherAnon
    @black sea

    "Many of these same parents, once they become empty-nesters with greater financial resources, move into smaller dwellings in the city."

    Does that really happen in the States? I can't imagine a couple approaching their 60s moving back to London or Birmingham, having left it to raise kids.

    I know people who have flats in London for weekend visits, theatres, proms, but they've all kept their homes elsewhere. Much more common are the retired couple kicking around a four or five bedroomed property.

    Replies: @black sea

    Yes, it happens with some frequency. Suburban life is really geared toward families with kids, and is less appealing once the kids are grown. Obviously people making such a move are selective about the neighborhoods they choose to relocate to. I won’t bore you with the anecdotes, but it’s fairly common.

  59. @Joe Stalin

    The Chicago Public Schools boycott, also known as Freedom Day, was a mass boycott and demonstration against the segregationist policies of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS) on October 22, 1963.[1] More than 200,000 students stayed out of school, and tens of thousands of Chicagoans joined in a protest that culminated in a march to the office of the Chicago Board of Education.

    Although Brown v. Board of Education prohibited racial segregation in schools, in 1963, Chicago's public schools continued to be segregated as a result of residential segregation.[3] This was exacerbated by the migration of more black Americans from the Southern United States to Chicago during the Jim Crow era.[4] School boundary lines were drawn specifically to preserve racial segregation, even as predominantly black schools grew overcrowded.[4] Classes were held in hallways, and there were not enough books for all of the students.[4] Some schools held double shifts, meaning students attended less than a full day of class.[5] Rather than send black students to underpopulated white schools, CPS Superintendent Benjamin Willis instituted the use of mobile classrooms; 625[6] aluminium trailers parked in the parking lots and playgrounds of overcrowded schools.[1] Rosie Simpson of Englewood, Chicago, coined the term "Willis Wagons" to describe the mobile classrooms. At one high school, these trailers were used to maintain segregation within the school; black students' classes were held in Willis Wagons, while white students went to class in the school.[4]

    The Chicago Tribune reported that 224,770 students were absent from CPS, amounting to 47 percent of the student population.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools_boycott
     
    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgj7JKY3nP4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjNtJWMJ2V4

    Replies: @Alden, @fnn, @Nicholas Stix

    Between the upper class Protestants and Irish Polish Italian German and other Catholics there was a huge percentage of kids who attended catholic and private schools in Chicago. The boycotters were black public school students led by Jew civil rights activists.

    White Public school Protestant families were already fleeing to the suburbs because they didn’t have the private schools and ethnic solidarity that allowed the Catholics to hold on longer.

    It’s not just vicious dangerous black bullies in schools. Entire neighborhoods were destroyed by the Black Plague in just 10 years by robbery, rape, murder, assault and battery with great bodily injury , noise, and general nastiness the Black Plague brings wherever it goes.

  60. @flyingtiger
    The old man used to tell me that the zoot suiters would travel in packs and beat up and rob GIs and sailors. The zoot suit riots were the whites fighting back. It was good seeing the clip.

    Replies: @Alden

    The zoot suiters hung around the main train station and attacked the servicemen as they left.

  61. @sayless
    @International Jew

    Also see The Black Panthers in Dorchester: A Forgotten History by Devlin Hilton, about the violent ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community there. It's an article, discusses a book called The Death of an American Jewish Community. Well-written, quite sad.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Alden, @Nicholas Stix

    I’ve read that book. Author wrote a lot about the wealthy civil rights Jews who lived in the wealthy suburbs helping destroy Jewish Boston neighborhoods as well as goy Boston neighborhoods.

  62. Obee says:
    @anonymous
    @TomSchmidt

    Marshall Berman wrote a whole book inspired by Moses' destruction of the Bronx, "All That Is Solid Melts Into Air".

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Obee

    The evil of the Cross Bronx Expressway is oversold. By the 1950s the South Bronx was a minority slum pushing north against the ethnics. Just over the Bridge Jersey beckoned. The last to leave, say by the late 60s, were the Concourse Jews. None of these folks were likely to remain Cross Bronx or no Cross Bronx.

    In comparison The Narrows Bridge Approach obliterated parts of Bay Ridge. Nonetheless Bay Ridge and Dyker Hgts. et Alia continued and improved to this day.

    Moses Title I Slum Clearance did not concentrate on minority neighborhoods. Cadman Plaza, Fort Greene, San Juan, Rockaway Park, South Village were not Harlem. Lower Manhattan Expressway would have not affected blacks. If anyone would have been affected by a sunken Fifth Avenue through Washington Square it was the rich of lower Fifth and Washington Square West.

    • Replies: @Raz
    @Obee

    Type of housing and ethnicity affected this. South Bronx mostly apartment bldgs. Bay Ridge had private homes along with apartment bldgs. Tony Manero (John Travolta) of Saturday Night Fever set in mid to late 70's Bay Ridge lived in a private home.

    Italians of that and an era more likely in NY to live in private homes than Jews and more likely to stay. Parts of North East Bronx still Italians in private homes.

  63. @syonredux
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Tulsa race riots.
     
    Most of what you hear from the MSM about the Tulsa Riot is false.

    The Tulsa Riot was caused by armed Blacks who marched to the courthouse in an attempt to protect a Black man who was accused of assaulting a White woman:


    In Greenwood, rumors began to fly—in particular, a report that whites were storming the courthouse. Shortly after 10 pm, a second, larger group of approximately 75 armed black men decided to go to the courthouse. They offered their support to the sheriff, who declined their help. According to witnesses, a white man is alleged to have told one of the armed black men to surrender his pistol. The man refused, and a shot was fired. That first shot may have been accidental, or meant as a warning; it was a catalyst for an exchange of gunfire.[15]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre#Stand-off_at_the_courthouse

    If the armed Blacks had not intervened, there likely would have been no riot.And Blacks did most of the killing on the first day of the riot:

    Day one death toll:

    Whites: 10

    Blacks: 2

    The stories about aeroplanes firebombing black-owned properties is utter crap.And the high numbers of deaths that you see people tossing around (100 to 300) are just pulled out of thin air. The official tally from The Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921 is 39 deaths(counting a stillborn infant), 26 Blacks and 13 Whites, which is quite a distance from the mass slaughter of legend:

    https://www.okhistory.org/research/forms/freport.pdf


    Zoot Suit riots.
     
    The Plan of San Diego is more interesting:

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the "return of land to Mexicans." It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.

     


    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to "free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control" (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.
     

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of "North American" men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @baythoven

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the “return of land to Mexicans.” It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed…

    HA HA HA HA HA. As if that crackpot scheme might otherwise have had some chance of success. Wikipedia History does provide some amusement. “The Plan of San Diego.” Sounds impressive, though one fantasizing a puffed-up image of earlier Mexican presence and power might be a bit let down to find it refers not to the California city, but to a dusty little south Texas backwater.

  64. fnn says:
    @Joe Stalin

    The Chicago Public Schools boycott, also known as Freedom Day, was a mass boycott and demonstration against the segregationist policies of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS) on October 22, 1963.[1] More than 200,000 students stayed out of school, and tens of thousands of Chicagoans joined in a protest that culminated in a march to the office of the Chicago Board of Education.

    Although Brown v. Board of Education prohibited racial segregation in schools, in 1963, Chicago's public schools continued to be segregated as a result of residential segregation.[3] This was exacerbated by the migration of more black Americans from the Southern United States to Chicago during the Jim Crow era.[4] School boundary lines were drawn specifically to preserve racial segregation, even as predominantly black schools grew overcrowded.[4] Classes were held in hallways, and there were not enough books for all of the students.[4] Some schools held double shifts, meaning students attended less than a full day of class.[5] Rather than send black students to underpopulated white schools, CPS Superintendent Benjamin Willis instituted the use of mobile classrooms; 625[6] aluminium trailers parked in the parking lots and playgrounds of overcrowded schools.[1] Rosie Simpson of Englewood, Chicago, coined the term "Willis Wagons" to describe the mobile classrooms. At one high school, these trailers were used to maintain segregation within the school; black students' classes were held in Willis Wagons, while white students went to class in the school.[4]

    The Chicago Tribune reported that 224,770 students were absent from CPS, amounting to 47 percent of the student population.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools_boycott
     
    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgj7JKY3nP4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjNtJWMJ2V4

    Replies: @Alden, @fnn, @Nicholas Stix

    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.

    North Siders, who in those days tended to have little experience with blacks. It wasn’t like the media (even the then conservative Chicago Tribune) was going to tell them the truth.

  65. @Joe Stalin

    The Chicago Public Schools boycott, also known as Freedom Day, was a mass boycott and demonstration against the segregationist policies of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS) on October 22, 1963.[1] More than 200,000 students stayed out of school, and tens of thousands of Chicagoans joined in a protest that culminated in a march to the office of the Chicago Board of Education.

    Although Brown v. Board of Education prohibited racial segregation in schools, in 1963, Chicago's public schools continued to be segregated as a result of residential segregation.[3] This was exacerbated by the migration of more black Americans from the Southern United States to Chicago during the Jim Crow era.[4] School boundary lines were drawn specifically to preserve racial segregation, even as predominantly black schools grew overcrowded.[4] Classes were held in hallways, and there were not enough books for all of the students.[4] Some schools held double shifts, meaning students attended less than a full day of class.[5] Rather than send black students to underpopulated white schools, CPS Superintendent Benjamin Willis instituted the use of mobile classrooms; 625[6] aluminium trailers parked in the parking lots and playgrounds of overcrowded schools.[1] Rosie Simpson of Englewood, Chicago, coined the term "Willis Wagons" to describe the mobile classrooms. At one high school, these trailers were used to maintain segregation within the school; black students' classes were held in Willis Wagons, while white students went to class in the school.[4]

    The Chicago Tribune reported that 224,770 students were absent from CPS, amounting to 47 percent of the student population.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools_boycott
     
    So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgj7JKY3nP4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjNtJWMJ2V4

    Replies: @Alden, @fnn, @Nicholas Stix

    “So the White students and presumably their parents were quite complicit in supporting the climate that eventually drove them out of Chicago.”

    What on Earth is that supposed to mean? Which “White students”? What “climate”?

  66. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Dan Hayes


    Not mentioned in this study was how the Jews were driven out of the Grand Concourse
     
    Absorbing 2013 exploration from New York magazine on the how the destruction of the Bronx may have influenced Stanley Kubrick’s themes of recurring (lost) pasts and parallel timelines in The Shining:

    ‘I Know What The Shining Is Really About’: Inside the Crowded Cult at the Overlook Hotel


    This is what I had: The Shining was nothing if not a story of childhood fears, an attempt to come to terms with being born into a fallen, increasingly terrifying world. Far from Kubrick’s supposed hermetically sealed standoffishness, the film was a desperately interior work, the closest the director ever got to autobiography. It was his memoir film, a preteen action-adventure story with Danny, the boy who could “shine”—see what others could not—serving as a stand-in for the boyhood Kubrick.

    I turned up a clue, what Bill Blakemore would call “a confirmer,” at the Majestic Court apartments at 2715 Grand Concourse, where Kubrick lived in his teenage years. None of the Dominican and Chinese people in the building’s once stately, now tatty, dimly lit lobby had heard of Kubrick, but the great director’s presence was palpable. Opposite the elevator was a series of sectioned windows. Each of the center panels bore a gilt-edged likeness to Louis XIV–era figures. The Barry Lyndon connective could not be ignored. There seemed no way the young Kubrick could have missed the paintings while heading to see yet another dream-life double bill at the nearby, resplendent Loew’s Paradise, now home to the World Changers Church, Creflo and Taffi Dollar, Pastors.
     


    My visit to P.S. 3 on Lafontaine Avenue proved unsatisfying. The school was built in 1995; no one knew of an earlier incarnation of P.S. 3. However, a simple Internet search led to a July 18, 2012, Daily News article detailing a six-alarm fire on Walton Avenue, not far from Yankee Stadium. With 28 firefighters injured, the paper reported, the fire recalled another blaze on October 12, 1977, during the second game of the World Series. With the Yanks trailing the Dodgers 2-0 in the first inning, Howard Cosell commented on a shot from the aerial camera. “There it is, ladies and gentlemen,” Cosell famously if mythically intoned, “the Bronx is burning.” The 1977 fire, the News wrote, “began in the vacant P.S. 3 at 158th Street and Melrose.”

    Funny how a seemingly stray factoid can forge the way to theoretical cornucopia. In the memorable early scene in The Shining, Danny eats a bowl of ice cream given him by Scatman Crothers’s character, Dick Hallorann, the kindly Overlook Hotel chef. Aware that Hallorann is also possessed with the gift of “shining,” Danny asks if there is “something bad” at the Overlook. Hallorann grimaces. He knows Danny’s “shining” ability far exceeds his own, so he cannot lie. Choosing his words carefully, Hallorann explains that many things have gone on at the hotel through the years, “and not all of them was good.” By way of explanation, Hallorann says, “When something happens, it can leave a trace of itself behind … say, like, if someone burns toast.”

    From there, it was easy enough to put together. Like the Overlook, the South Bronx was a realm of ghosts. If you could “shine,” which Hallorann says is seeing “things that haven’t happened yet” and “things that happened a long time ago,” then you’d gain access to the entire, terrible tableau: the European immigrants in their apartments thinking finally they were safe from the knock on the door, then the faces on the streets changed color, the fear of the unknown set in, leading to the moving vans bound for Jersey, Long Island, and the rest. Then they’d come, the agents of the insurance-mad landlords, the hooded arsonists stepping from the darkness with the can of kerosene they splashed across the lobby floor. A lit match flew across space, the flames shot up, and sirens filled the air. Between 1970 and 1980, more than 300,000 souls disappeared from the census rolls, a whole city of phantoms.

    There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood. Even behind the stone walls of his Childwickbury Manor, he kept up with the New York media and events in his hometown. He couldn’t fail to notice stories about the Savage Skulls marching down Fox Street. How far-fetched is it to assume he was aware of the fire at P.S. 3, where he spent the most terrible of his pre-Graflex years? As a boy, he was a die-hard Yankees fan, sitting in the bleachers to be near his idol, Joe DiMaggio, whom he’d later photograph for Look. In 1999, the two sons of the Bronx would die within hours of each other. He was still a follower of the sport, so it made sense that Kubrick would have had no small interest in a ­Dodgers-Yankees World Series.

    Kubrick was gone before the terror started, but still, this was his world, these were his streets. Now they were being burned to ashes, one more bit of the past being gouged away, just the way the world of his forefathers had vanished from Europe—the hideous cycle of history spinning, a circle closing shut, one more mordant har-de-har of the human condition.
     

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Nicholas Stix

    “There is almost no chance that Stanley Kubrick, then in the midst of preparing The Shining, did not know about what was happening in his old neighborhood.”

    Wrong. Kubrick completely left the Bronx behind him.

    Vulture/New York Magazine is such garbage. Stanley Kubrick is one of the most overrated directors of all time. He lacked any humanity. It’s good that he disavowed Spartacus, because the humanity of Kirk Douglas and Dalton Trumbo saved the picture from Kubrick, just as Douglas, Calder Willingham, and Jim Thompson saved Paths of Glory from him, and Peter Sellers saved Strangelove from him.

    This mook’s reasoning reminds me of Louis Farrakhan and his “numerology.”

  67. @sayless
    @International Jew

    Also see The Black Panthers in Dorchester: A Forgotten History by Devlin Hilton, about the violent ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community there. It's an article, discusses a book called The Death of an American Jewish Community. Well-written, quite sad.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Alden, @Nicholas Stix

    Thanks for heads-up! Heartbreaking story. I didn’t know the Panthers wreaked their racial terrorism in Boston, too.

  68. Raz says:
    @Obee
    @anonymous

    The evil of the Cross Bronx Expressway is oversold. By the 1950s the South Bronx was a minority slum pushing north against the ethnics. Just over the Bridge Jersey beckoned. The last to leave, say by the late 60s, were the Concourse Jews. None of these folks were likely to remain Cross Bronx or no Cross Bronx.

    In comparison The Narrows Bridge Approach obliterated parts of Bay Ridge. Nonetheless Bay Ridge and Dyker Hgts. et Alia continued and improved to this day.

    Moses Title I Slum Clearance did not concentrate on minority neighborhoods. Cadman Plaza, Fort Greene, San Juan, Rockaway Park, South Village were not Harlem. Lower Manhattan Expressway would have not affected blacks. If anyone would have been affected by a sunken Fifth Avenue through Washington Square it was the rich of lower Fifth and Washington Square West.

    Replies: @Raz

    Type of housing and ethnicity affected this. South Bronx mostly apartment bldgs. Bay Ridge had private homes along with apartment bldgs. Tony Manero (John Travolta) of Saturday Night Fever set in mid to late 70’s Bay Ridge lived in a private home.

    Italians of that and an era more likely in NY to live in private homes than Jews and more likely to stay. Parts of North East Bronx still Italians in private homes.

  69. @Obee
    @TomSchmidt

    Even Caro gives little credence to the swimming pool story. The pool in question was in Italian Harlem. To believe it you would have to believe all these refugees from Naples and Palermo liked bathing in waters with the temperature of the Baltic.

    At the time Jones Beach and the Southern State Parkway of the low Bridges was built the black population of NYC was under 5%. Moses told his great friend Al Smith that he desired to keep riff raff from Jones Beach. Smith replied, “People like me.” Meaning of course white ethnics who were in the vast majority of the City’s lower orders.

    Moses disliked many people starting with Eleanore Roosevelt. Blacks were way down the list.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Deja Vu Again. In high school I worked in that Italian East Harlem swimming pool (Thomas Jefferson). During daytime, pool clients were blacks and Puerto Ricans. At dusk the pool was racially/ethnically cleansed by and for the local Italian Stallions. BTW, at that time I never heard any rumors of purposeful low water temperature. Anyway, it couldn’t be done since pool waters were neither heated nor refrigerated!

    OT. I had already known that Moses was enraptured with Al Smith. I was unaware that he disliked Eleanor Roosevelt although I should have known since he was not a big FDR fan!

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