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iSteve commenter Jack D on the next thing to stock up on:

I saw the doctor who recommended pulse oximeters on one of the morning shows today. He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. (Normal readings are 95%+ and generally you should receive supplemental oxygen if you are below 90%). They had been told “don’t go to the hospital unless you feel short of breath.” He couldn’t believe that these folks were even standing with such low readings but they were. He thought what was happening was that people’s bodies were gradually acclimating to the lack of oxygen so they didn’t notice it. By the time they came in, their lungs were badly damaged and most of them died despite being ventilated.

Hopefully by next winter most older people will have oximeters and will know to come in to the hospital (or be prescribed oxygen at home) long before they are down to unsustainable levels of blood oxygen. Or else there will be some quick and dirty method of guesstimating oxygen starvation even without an oximeter. Or else, for anyone who is over 65 or has risk factors, they will be prescribed oxygen as a standard treatment when they show symptoms of Wuhan Virus – there’s no harm in getting a little extra oxygen for a few days until you feel better.

Which leads me to believe that they are wasting their time furiously building respirators [ventilators?] right now and should be building oxygen concentrators and lots of oxygen tanks. Of course when the next wave hits, these will be in short supply. If you are not familiar, an oxygen concentrator is a device that separates oxygen from the air (actually what it does is it removes nitrogen from the air so what is left over is mostly oxygen) . Most are about the size and shape of a dehumidifier – you just plug it in and it outputs enough oxygen for one person. If you want to travel, it can fill an oxygen bottle for portable use but when you’re home you just hook your oxygen line directly to it. The advantage over bottled oxygen is that you never run out as long as you have power and you don’t need to get constant deliveries. If you are a serious prepper you may want to get yours now because you won’t be able to get one later.

How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea? I’ve heard conflicting advice.

 
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  1. Oxygen concentrators were discussed in this forum three or four weeks ago. Ebay keeps removing the listings for them for some reason. Are they prohibited or (being Chinese) just defective?

    One neat fact about them is that if you use them in a confined space they can deplete the oxygen in the available air.

    • Replies: @Cloudswrest
    The sellers I saw on Ebay won't sell you one (in America) unless you provide them with a prescription. Apparently they're not OTC in America.
  2. This is assuming that the hypoxemia was developing gradually until it was so severe it caused shortness of breath. It seems also possible that the lung condition was stable and then declined rapidly and quickly, leading to hypoxemia and shortness of breath. (Only significant because if that were the case, supplemental oxygen at home wouldn’t be that helpful.) Without knowing more about the lung pathology of the infection, it seems like it would be hard to say.

  3. ‘… How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea?’

    Crudity doesn’t normally appeal to me — but how about a CRAP machine for all stories explicitly or implicitly taking the Coronavirus seriously?

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    "taking the Coronavirus seriously"

    It's a real event but carries with it a psychological warfare component. Evil elites (Chinese and Western) using the pandemic to make bank from a vaccine or conduct society-altering exercises are capitalizing on the crisis. Or it's just the insidious Fu Manchu up to his old tricks.
    , @Achilles Wannabe
    Yours is a Crappy comment
  4. there’s no harm in getting a little extra oxygen

    • LOL: Kronos
  5. ” He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. ”

    Bull Shit .

    • Agree: Len, Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @hooodathunkit

    ” He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. ”

    Bull Shit .
     
    What's BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_(medical) doesn't list 'feel short of breath' as a symptom. The feeling of breathlessness is driven by CO2 levels, and if the lungs are functioning the CO2's removed. If the hemaglobin transfer is screwed up, yes you can get extremely low oxygen, normal or even great CO2 readings, and the person doesn't feel short of breath.

    So what's BS?
  6. That ship sailed a month ago Steve.

    I had already looked into it. Apparently you need a prescription for a genuine device, and the consumer grade models on Amazon are Asian-made, highly sketchy and deceptive in their labeling.

    They each also seemed to have 5-6 reviews in broken English (presumably Asian shills)

    The real deal O2 concentrator (not the portable kind) will set you back 600-700 bucks.

    Good luck on the black market…

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    ok.

    So, grandma has a breathing condition and has a high quality machine which she was properly prescribed. When she passes away, and her family then has all of her stuff, they can legally keep it, sell it or whatever, right?
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Apparently you need a prescription for a genuine device, and the consumer grade models on Amazon are Asian-made, highly sketchy and deceptive in their labeling."

    Are you saying that in the Land Of The Free you need a permit to buy a medical-grade concentrator?

    You can get one in the UK for £1400. A cheapo Chinese home one for a few hundred pounds.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Oxygen-concentrator-Philips-respironics-EverFlo-1-5l-96-o2/283850579701?hash=item4216d01ef5:g:~S0AAOSwXYxemaAT
  7. It’s been a long time, but my Air Force friends told me that as part of pilot training they would actually have to breathe a hypoxic mixture to see what their reaction was, because people’s reactions were idiosyncratic.

    Some people would feel euphoric, some people would get a terrible headache, some people would have other reactions. The idea was that they needed to know what their reaction was, so that if their oxygen failed on a mission and they started suddenly got a terrible headache while over Hanoi they could realize what was going on and fix the problem before they blacked out.

    Anyway, that’s what they told me, never had the eyesight to fly myself so maybe it’s not true. The one thing they would not feel is a feeling of suffocation or shortness of breath because, (not to keep beating this drum) that feeling is caused primarily by excess carbon dioxide, not lack of oxygen. That’s the danger of hypoxia–you are suffocating, but you don’t feel like you are suffocating.

    This is also part of the reason why doing things like climbing Everest are so dangerous. On top of Everest, you inhale much less oxygen, but you exhale the same amount of CO2 that you would at sea level. Breathing faster would help you stay oxygenated (somewhat–not as much as you would think, but it does help) but you don’t have a physiologic drive to hyperventilate because your CO2 elimination is normal.

    So if these guys walking in to the ED had hypoxia but not hypercarbia I wouldn’t expect them to feel short of breath–that’s not terribly surprising. The question is why would they be so hypoxic without being markedly hypercarbic; that is unusual. Oxygen has a lot more trouble diffusing across the alveolar membranes than CO2, so if this virus damages those membranes you might get bad hypoxia with relatively OK CO2.

  8. there’s no harm in getting a little extra oxygen for a few days until you feel better

    Stay safe out there and don’t suck too hard.

  9. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:

    This whole crisis has many people feeling like Grodin in MIDNIGHT RUN.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    One of the best scenes out of one of my favorite movies evah!

    Thanks.
  10. Just got my mom her Mother’s Day present–a pulse oximeter. Thanks!

  11. @Inverness
    Oxygen concentrators were discussed in this forum three or four weeks ago. Ebay keeps removing the listings for them for some reason. Are they prohibited or (being Chinese) just defective?

    One neat fact about them is that if you use them in a confined space they can deplete the oxygen in the available air.

    The sellers I saw on Ebay won’t sell you one (in America) unless you provide them with a prescription. Apparently they’re not OTC in America.

    • Replies: @Inverness
    Right, I heard that too, but I got mine without any trouble. Even 120v, but I haven't opened it up yet to confirm.

    Next time I'm choosing a career I think I'll choose one that people are required to use on pain of imprisonment. Neat little racket imho.
  12. “How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea? I’ve heard conflicting advice.”

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?

    • Replies: @AnonAnon

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?
     
    Ha! It’s fearporn 24/7 here. The question is, is it organic or are people on the payroll?

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/494106-officials-found-china-amplified-disinformation-about-coronavirus

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”

  13. CPAP machines keep the airpassage open during sleep apnea, no sure how that would help with corona. I did order an oximeter a few days ago from ebay, one of the few reputable ones that did not cost an arm and a leg ($30 bucks it was, only a markup of 100% or so). Out of stock now. Thanks for the advice. I also have an old Samsung phone with a built-in oximeter as a cross check.

    Funny how the masks seem to be continuously removed by ebay (you can still find them but “hidden” in other medical items). I think they are afraid of being sued. But there are plenty of sellers on other platforms who sell some off-brand masks only at a 500% mark-up or so. I managed to buy a couple of packs back in February, should be enough for now with “recycling”.

  14. The USS Comfort is goin’ home. The ship basically didnt do shit. At least the medics got a chance to chill out.
    Cough…

    • Replies: @Inverness
    A particularly scenic bit of health-care theatre.
  15. Again, the speculation that COVID-19 is acting upon hemoglobin needs to be considered by medical professionals.

  16. Oximeters are sold out on Amazon.

    I just ordered one for an elderly relative from a Chinese ebayer with a seasoned account for $16. No guarantees but probably your best bet to get one online without spending $50 or more.

    The US sellers who have them for under $30 all look scammy. One has sold hundreds of them the past few days on a new account with 3 feedbacks.

    The amazon sold out listings look the same and have reviews from 2019 and before.

    AliExpress says they cannot ship them to the USA.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    AliExpress says they cannot ship them to the USA.
     
    Try searching for an "oximetro". I kid you not.
  17. There are (or at least were) plenty of scammy listings on Amazon for oxygen concentrators. Typical one: new listing, few reviews, price too good to be true, and picture doesn’t match the product description. If you do find a legitimate site, they’ll ask for a prescription. The scam listings reminded me of the observation that spammers insert misspellings in their emails in order to screen out the careful so they don’t waste time. They want only good, careless prospects.

  18. Sleep Apnea machines can be had on craigslist for $150-$300 without a medical prescription – people on Craigslist don’t care to ask for such things. I bought one for my family. CPAP or BiPAP should do. A used one can be disinfected. Soak the hose and the water tank (for humidity) in the sink and let it run for a while by itself to flush out any infection. I definitely recommend getting one with a humidifier if you actual have to use it or your nasal passages will be severely dried out by using the machine. Also, get a variety of masks (full mouth and nose, or just nose – both around the nose and nasal pillow going only in nostrils) so you can figure out which mask you can tolerate the best. You will be severely hard pressed to sleep on your stomach with one – something would have to be rigged up like a bed with a hole in it for your face – but side sleeping is possible. A heated hose would be nice too but not as necessary as humidifier add on. If you can’t keep it on sleeping because you take it off at night automatically then you will have to use scotch tape wrapped around your face, head and the mask multiple ways. I believe there is a way to use them with oxygen but I am not sure how easy that is to do – it would probably involve home crafting.

    P.S. Coronavirus aside, if you have even mild sleep apnea this machine will slow cognitive decline and give you the best rest of your life, once you figure out how to tolerate it a full night.

  19. Well, it’s nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former “Coronavirus Skeptics” towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic “Flu Hoaxers” have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that “It’s Just the Flu!!!”

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    more convinced than ever that “It’s Just the Flu!!!”
     
    No need for exclamation points: the canonical version is "It's just the flu, bro".

    It's meant to be laconic. It's meant to be a counter to hysteria - flu-bro's don't have uteri in which to gestate fear-demons.

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC's latest 'antibody' test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests - certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:

    IF SARS-nCoV2 is as contagious as initially claimed,
    THEN a very large proportion of the population was already infected by the time lockdowns were put in place
    .
     
    .

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.

    At least the results of Coronageddon make sense - as opposed to the idea that increasing the Earth's mean annual temperature from 14.7°C to 16.2°C over a century can reliably be said to affect anything whatsoever... especially when the last half-century has seen temperature increases of about the same magnitude, and the fastest increase in living standards in human history.
    , @MattinLA
    Hey Ron, wasn't the New York City hospital system supposed to have "collapsed" by now, leading to tens of thousands of deaths? At least that's what you predicted a month ago! Oh, well, toss that one on the kook bonfire along with the fake moon landing stories, Kennedy conspiracies, Jews drinking Christian baby blood, etc. Etc.....
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Well, some of us here just want a more balanced approach to this story and problem. Let's weigh the costs of:

    1) Shutting down our country and others, killing tens of millions of jobs and livelihoods, and creating trillions more debt-dollars out of thin air,

    Against 2) The benefits of saving some lives, mostly vulnerable to begin with, and slowing down the spread of a respiratory virus with a mortality rate that appears to indeed be below one percent.

    The terms "Coronavirus Skeptics," "Flu Hoaxers" and "It's Just the Flu" sound like the kinds of things you have rightfully called out the CIA and others in Our American Pravda universe for using in the past. Like the terms "Conspiracy Theory" and "Conspiracy Theorist," they are the kinds of terms designed to throw a shadow on legitimately concerned people who question the mainstream narrative. They are beneath you; and this commenter, at least, does not fit into any of those categories.

    SARS-CoV-2 is not just the flu, but neither is it the Black Death. The actions we take, and the stories you write, should be balanced. You bear a responsibility as a public intellectual to carefully inform your readers and the growing portion of the public you reach. We need people like you to help us form our own opinions.

    , @Jack D
    If you are referring to me, I have not changed my views. Most people (at least 80%) will experience Wuhan Virus as a mild to moderate disease (or one which causes no symptoms at all). For around 20% of the victims, mainly (but not exclusively) folks who are older or who have pre-existing conditions, it can be more serious - those folks need to be watched closely if they become ill to make sure that their disease is not progressing further (although at present there is no clear agreement on what the best treatment is, but it's increasingly clear it's NOT mechanical ventilation in most cases).

    Somewhere around 1/2 to 1% of the infected, mainly from the most at risk groups, will die. Every year in the US, almost 1% of the population dies. So, at first glance it seems like Wuhan Virus could potentially double the normal mortality (if everyone got Wuhan Virus this year), which would be pretty serious. However, in my opinion there is a large (but not total) overlap between those who are dying of Wuhan Virus and those who were going to die anyway during the next 12 months from non-Wuhan flu, pneumonia or other causes, so the EXCESS mortality is not going to be anywhere close to 1%. Wuhan virus is also going to disproportionately kill (has killed) a large # of people who, while they might expect to live somewhat longer than 1 year, have very poor quality of life because they have Alzheimer's Disease or are otherwise senile or mentally disabled. While their deaths may be tragic, from a societal point of view it is no great loss (even from a personal point of view their families may be secretly relieved - the more secretly relieved they are, the greater their public show of grief) . This is going to result in a # of deaths comparable (both in # and in demographic profile) to that previously experience in bad flu years. Never in the past was the public health response to a new flu strain closing down the entire world economy.

    Given the lack of treatment options, other than keeping everyone locked up forever, I don't see the point of the lock ups. This disease is going to continue to spread until either there is a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved. Instead of all the Wuhan deaths being concentrated in one year, we may have succeeded in spreading them out over 2 or 3 years. What does "flattening the curve" accomplish if the area under the curve is the same? Previously the excuse was that we were going to run out of ventilators but now we see that they are worthless. We are not going to repeat this insanity of shutting down the whole economy again next time. This fiasco has already deeply strained our social and economic system (how deeply remains to be seen) and repeating it over and over would surely strain it to the breaking point. Chances are that when the virus returns next year, places like NYC that experienced the brunt of the first wave will experience it much less and other cities that were spared this time will have their own epidemics. So what did we really accomplish for all of this sacrifice?
    , @Glt
    My company recently had a very expensive mistake. Boss doubled down on the habits that resulted in the mistake. Very stressful, but seeing people double down on a more obvious issue with more severe consequences really drives home how hard admitting you are wrong can be. It is helping me stay sane at work.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    It depends how you are score the match as between the Alarmists and Skeptics.

    When judged against, say, the Imperial College model, which came up with 2.2M deaths based on 1% IFR and 81% infection rate, the Skeptics are looking good. IFR could end up being as low as one-third to one-tenth of that number.

    And the utility of the total lockdown policy as compared to the Swedish model is looking dubious.
    , @JosephB
    Ron, yes. It is nice to see people more aligned with reality. I haven't seen anyone talking about 2 million deaths by midsummer in quite some time.

    The constant spamming of threads with conspiracy theories that the US brought Corona to China has also died down.

    Happy times.
    , @Thoughts
    I've flipped from thinking it was a reasonably bad flu to a hoax. What you just wrote convinces me even more. I'm going outside to socialize.

    Kavanaugh, Russia Hoax, Impeachment, now the Flu...This is just the Deep state making another thing up to try to f-up the country
  20. He couldn’t believe that these folks were even standing with such low readings but they were. He thought what was happening was that people’s bodies were gradually acclimating to the lack of oxygen so they didn’t notice it.

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn’t look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn’t seem that far from normal, just to mom’s sharp eye.

    I can imagine that had she not come, and he had died, my niece could have gone to the bar and said, “Joe, pour me a strong one. I’m a widow!” “Sorry, K.C., but I can’t do that. Not till you’re 21.”

    He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. (Normal readings are 95%+ and generally you should receive supplemental oxygen if you are below 90%).

    They don’t seem too worried:


    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    Natives of the Himalayas and the Andes have two separate genetic mutations that adapt them to altitude. One people, I think the Andes Indians, have a mutation that produces more EPO, Erithropoetin, than flatlanders. Synthetic EPO is the drug that took over pro cycling in the late 90s. Danish Tour de France winner Bjarne Riis was nicknamed 'Mr. 60%' for his unnaturally high hematocrit count, the percentage of red blood cells in the blood. Some early EPO abusers died because their blood was so thick that when they sweated out moisture, their blood turned to sludge and they had heart attacks during races. Anyway, the Bolivians make it at naturally high levels to help them live at high elevations with more red blood cells in circulation.

    The Tibetans have a different genetic adaptation that increases their pulse rate over the norm so as to circulate and oxygenate blood through the lungs at a faster rate. I don't have that reference but it was an interesting study that illustrated different adaptations to similar circumstance.
    , @res

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn’t look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn’t seem that far from normal, just to mom’s sharp eye.
     
    Being a poorly controlled diabetic and not having a home blood glucose meter (they are cheap for occasional use, though the strips can become expensive if you use it a lot) seems like a terrible idea.

    Seriously, tell your niece to buy him one. For example:
    https://www.amazon.com/Care-Touch-Diabetes-Testing-Kit/dp/B07G783R7X
  21. “CPAP machines keep the airpassage open during sleep apnea, no sure how that would help with corona”.

    In sleep apnea, oxygen levels spike down multiple times per minute. The test for sleep apnea involves sleeping overnight with a pulse oximiter strapped to you with a memory recording all of the spikes down. Here is some rank speculation here: but if COVID had lowered a person’s baseline oxygenation, then preventing further spikes down would probably be important. I wonder if there are normal mild perturbations small enough that someone wouldn’t even be diagnosed with sleep apnea, but could become dangerous once you have CV? For that matter, most sleep apnea isn’t even treated in *vast* numbers of people, so maybe the option of not getting treated becomes more of a deadly gamble when you get CV?

    But regardless, if you look it up, multiple articles and medical/CDC documents have cited CPAP/BiPAP machines as possible earlier but still serious “pre-ventilator stage” treatments – because that is what they are for most other diseases that can lead to being on a ventilator. The only downside listed is that they aren’t a closed system so they still allow the Coronavirus to get out of your body and infect others – irrelevant for the patient but undesirable for the hospital and staff.

    As an aside – it would be pretty sad if Ventilators had been overprescribed because they are closed systems and don’t shoot out a CV aerosol when it looks like some countries have solved the CPAP aerosol problem with a simple plastic bucket thing over people’s heads. I haven’t read any hard evidence of this but it has been a vaguely implied possibility. This is the kind of so simple it’s silly but valuble discovery that takes time to filter through the medical establishment that is the silver lining in the delay fostered by the lockdown, even if most of us really are doomed to get CV in the end.

    • Replies: @res
    Do you know if the pulse oximeters on fitness bands are sensitive enough to test for sleep apnea?
    https://www.wareable.com/wearable-tech/pulse-oximeter-explained-fitbit-garmin-wearables-340
  22. @donut
    " He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. "

    Bull Shit .

    ” He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. ”

    Bull Shit .

    What’s BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_(medical) doesn’t list ‘feel short of breath’ as a symptom. The feeling of breathlessness is driven by CO2 levels, and if the lungs are functioning the CO2’s removed. If the hemaglobin transfer is screwed up, yes you can get extremely low oxygen, normal or even great CO2 readings, and the person doesn’t feel short of breath.

    So what’s BS?

    • Thanks: SOL
    • Replies: @donut
    That it has anything to do with the corona virus .
  23. @Reg Cæsar

    He couldn’t believe that these folks were even standing with such low readings but they were. He thought what was happening was that people’s bodies were gradually acclimating to the lack of oxygen so they didn’t notice it.

     

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn't look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn't seem that far from normal, just to mom's sharp eye.

    I can imagine that had she not come, and he had died, my niece could have gone to the bar and said, "Joe, pour me a strong one. I'm a widow!" "Sorry, K.C., but I can't do that. Not till you're 21."


    He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. (Normal readings are 95%+ and generally you should receive supplemental oxygen if you are below 90%).

     

    They don't seem too worried:

    https://www.cusco-native.com/images/images/banner/pc_cusco-native.jpg


    https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/print/u-g-P25GL80.jpg?w=550&h=550&p=0

    Natives of the Himalayas and the Andes have two separate genetic mutations that adapt them to altitude. One people, I think the Andes Indians, have a mutation that produces more EPO, Erithropoetin, than flatlanders. Synthetic EPO is the drug that took over pro cycling in the late 90s. Danish Tour de France winner Bjarne Riis was nicknamed ‘Mr. 60%’ for his unnaturally high hematocrit count, the percentage of red blood cells in the blood. Some early EPO abusers died because their blood was so thick that when they sweated out moisture, their blood turned to sludge and they had heart attacks during races. Anyway, the Bolivians make it at naturally high levels to help them live at high elevations with more red blood cells in circulation.

    The Tibetans have a different genetic adaptation that increases their pulse rate over the norm so as to circulate and oxygenate blood through the lungs at a faster rate. I don’t have that reference but it was an interesting study that illustrated different adaptations to similar circumstance.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    The Tibetans have a different genetic adaptation that increases their pulse rate over the norm so as to circulate and oxygenate blood through the lungs at a faster rate. I don’t have that reference but it was an interesting study that illustrated different adaptations to similar circumstance.
     
    It's believed the Tibetans acquired their high altitude adaptive gene by cross-breeding with archaic Denisovans.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/07/tibetans-inherited-high-altitude-gene-ancient-human

  24. @donut
    "How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea? I’ve heard conflicting advice."

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?

    Ha! It’s fearporn 24/7 here. The question is, is it organic or are people on the payroll?

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/494106-officials-found-china-amplified-disinformation-about-coronavirus

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”
     
    I hope they're at least partially responsible for the fulfilment of my attempt to implicate 5G (as mentioned in this comment on March 7th)

    I just proposed elsewhere that the following trope be spread as far as possible…

    Researchers just discovered that coronavirus can be transmitted over the internet – particularly on 4G or 5G devices, and even via email.
     
    Whether hilarity ensues or not, will be largely a function of how many toilet-paper-buying fucktards can be reached.
     
    I'm not sure if the '5G causes covid19' nonsense post-dates that comment (I know 5G hysteria was a thing before that date, but had not seen any link to covid19).

    If it does pre-date March 7th, then it goes into a long list of things I've 'invented' that already exist - starting with my 1974 invention of 'anti-splash' (putting a few sheets of toilet paper into the toilet bowl before taking a shit, to prevent splash-back).
    , @Inverness
    Ah, they're just thinking of Godflee.
  25. @hooodathunkit

    ” He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. ”

    Bull Shit .
     
    What's BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_(medical) doesn't list 'feel short of breath' as a symptom. The feeling of breathlessness is driven by CO2 levels, and if the lungs are functioning the CO2's removed. If the hemaglobin transfer is screwed up, yes you can get extremely low oxygen, normal or even great CO2 readings, and the person doesn't feel short of breath.

    So what's BS?

    That it has anything to do with the corona virus .

  26. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    more convinced than ever that “It’s Just the Flu!!!”

    No need for exclamation points: the canonical version is “It’s just the flu, bro“.

    It’s meant to be laconic. It’s meant to be a counter to hysteria – flu-bro’s don’t have uteri in which to gestate fear-demons.

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:

    IF SARS-nCoV2 is as contagious as initially claimed,
    THEN a very large proportion of the population was already infected by the time lockdowns were put in place
    .

    .

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.

    At least the results of Coronageddon make sense – as opposed to the idea that increasing the Earth’s mean annual temperature from 14.7°C to 16.2°C over a century can reliably be said to affect anything whatsoever… especially when the last half-century has seen temperature increases of about the same magnitude, and the fastest increase in living standards in human history.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:
     
    Well, things are obviously pretty horrible in NYC, and I'm not too surprised by the pretty high estimate of the infections there that just came out. But the implications aren't happy ones.

    According to the NYT, there have been over 19K "excess deaths" in NYC over the last six weeks, suggesting that the Coronavirus killed something like 0.22% of the total population during that period:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of complicating and conflicting factors, including issues of timing, but if you just naively combine that with the supposed infection rate, you get an IFR of above 1%. Frankly, that's roughly twice as high as I would have thought a few days ago.

    By contrast, the infection rates in Santa Clara County and LA were just totally ridiculous, and the studies terrible since they used non-random sampling. Given the NYC totals, if the CA infection rates were that high, deaths would have been 5-10x what they are.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    So I really had expected a higher infection rate in NYC, and the numbers from that study really aren't good news at all.
    , @dfordoom

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.
     
    Yep. It's the same psychology at work. Some people just love the idea of impending doom. It makes them feel really good and it makes them feel oddly virtuous as well. It's a kind of pseudo-scientific substitute for apocalyptic religious beliefs.
  27. @Mehen
    That ship sailed a month ago Steve.

    I had already looked into it. Apparently you need a prescription for a genuine device, and the consumer grade models on Amazon are Asian-made, highly sketchy and deceptive in their labeling.

    They each also seemed to have 5-6 reviews in broken English (presumably Asian shills)

    The real deal O2 concentrator (not the portable kind) will set you back 600-700 bucks.

    Good luck on the black market...

    ok.

    So, grandma has a breathing condition and has a high quality machine which she was properly prescribed. When she passes away, and her family then has all of her stuff, they can legally keep it, sell it or whatever, right?

  28. @AnonAnon

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?
     
    Ha! It’s fearporn 24/7 here. The question is, is it organic or are people on the payroll?

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/494106-officials-found-china-amplified-disinformation-about-coronavirus

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”

    I hope they’re at least partially responsible for the fulfilment of my attempt to implicate 5G (as mentioned in this comment on March 7th)

    I just proposed elsewhere that the following trope be spread as far as possible…

    Researchers just discovered that coronavirus can be transmitted over the internet – particularly on 4G or 5G devices, and even via email.

    Whether hilarity ensues or not, will be largely a function of how many toilet-paper-buying fucktards can be reached.

    I’m not sure if the ‘5G causes covid19‘ nonsense post-dates that comment (I know 5G hysteria was a thing before that date, but had not seen any link to covid19).

    If it does pre-date March 7th, then it goes into a long list of things I’ve ‘invented’ that already exist – starting with my 1974 invention of ‘anti-splash‘ (putting a few sheets of toilet paper into the toilet bowl before taking a shit, to prevent splash-back).

  29. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    Hey Ron, wasn’t the New York City hospital system supposed to have “collapsed” by now, leading to tens of thousands of deaths? At least that’s what you predicted a month ago! Oh, well, toss that one on the kook bonfire along with the fake moon landing stories, Kennedy conspiracies, Jews drinking Christian baby blood, etc. Etc…..

  30. @Lot
    Oximeters are sold out on Amazon.

    I just ordered one for an elderly relative from a Chinese ebayer with a seasoned account for $16. No guarantees but probably your best bet to get one online without spending $50 or more.

    The US sellers who have them for under $30 all look scammy. One has sold hundreds of them the past few days on a new account with 3 feedbacks.

    The amazon sold out listings look the same and have reviews from 2019 and before.

    AliExpress says they cannot ship them to the USA.

    AliExpress says they cannot ship them to the USA.

    Try searching for an “oximetro”. I kid you not.

  31. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    Well, some of us here just want a more balanced approach to this story and problem. Let’s weigh the costs of:

    1) Shutting down our country and others, killing tens of millions of jobs and livelihoods, and creating trillions more debt-dollars out of thin air,

    Against 2) The benefits of saving some lives, mostly vulnerable to begin with, and slowing down the spread of a respiratory virus with a mortality rate that appears to indeed be below one percent.

    The terms “Coronavirus Skeptics,” “Flu Hoaxers” and “It’s Just the Flu” sound like the kinds of things you have rightfully called out the CIA and others in Our American Pravda universe for using in the past. Like the terms “Conspiracy Theory” and “Conspiracy Theorist,” they are the kinds of terms designed to throw a shadow on legitimately concerned people who question the mainstream narrative. They are beneath you; and this commenter, at least, does not fit into any of those categories.

    SARS-CoV-2 is not just the flu, but neither is it the Black Death. The actions we take, and the stories you write, should be balanced. You bear a responsibility as a public intellectual to carefully inform your readers and the growing portion of the public you reach. We need people like you to help us form our own opinions.

    • Disagree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Ron's towards the vulnerable age, so he's going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have "a bad flu season" which means we've been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Disagree Buzz, as we need people like him to run a solid, almost bug-free web site, do that great software development that allows him to archive material that others want to memory hole, and be an incorruptible stalwart for free speech. That's all.

    Of course, the proprietor of this great site has every right to publish his own long conspiracy theories on everything, even if it's often nothing but anti-Americanism* at every step. The American Pravda stuff is entertaining and often has good, believable information that's contrary to the long-held narrative. However, my Dad told me to believe 1/2 of what you hear and 1/4 of what you read, and I take no exception on that with Mr. Unz's writings.

    As far as the Kung Flu, I take my side based on common sense and a little PERSPECTIVE, something in short demand from those who spend 1/2 their waking hours in front of the idiot plate or small-screen looking at numbers designed to scare and keep one tuned in as to a John Carpenter horror movie.


    .

    * I don't mean by that anti-American-Feral Gov't. I agree with usually anyone there. He and the Commie writers are plain anti- all things American.
  32. respirators [ventilators?]

    Yes, ventilators. For some reason I have brain freeze over these two words. A ventilator is the thing with the air hoses and the tube that they shove down your throat after they sedate you. A respirator is any device for filtering the air that you breath – technically N95 masks are respirators, though more often they refer to devices that consist of a rubber mask plus separate filter cartridges.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Basically, we are talking about having some version of what Hillary and Tenzing had:

    https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/centaur-wp/theengineer/prod/content/uploads/2017/06/08151848/Hillary_and_tenzing.jpg
  33. @Jack D

    respirators [ventilators?]
     
    Yes, ventilators. For some reason I have brain freeze over these two words. A ventilator is the thing with the air hoses and the tube that they shove down your throat after they sedate you. A respirator is any device for filtering the air that you breath - technically N95 masks are respirators, though more often they refer to devices that consist of a rubber mask plus separate filter cartridges.

    Basically, we are talking about having some version of what Hillary and Tenzing had:

    • Replies: @Jack D
    No, they have oxygen masks. I imagine that what they are wearing was adapted from the systems worn by pilots in the days before pressurized cabins. There are "power respirators" that have similar hoses but they just lead to fans and filters and don't involve carrying tanks of pure oxygen. There are also the air packs worn by fire fighters but their tanks are just filled with ( filtered) compressed air and not pure oxygen.
  34. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    If you are referring to me, I have not changed my views. Most people (at least 80%) will experience Wuhan Virus as a mild to moderate disease (or one which causes no symptoms at all). For around 20% of the victims, mainly (but not exclusively) folks who are older or who have pre-existing conditions, it can be more serious – those folks need to be watched closely if they become ill to make sure that their disease is not progressing further (although at present there is no clear agreement on what the best treatment is, but it’s increasingly clear it’s NOT mechanical ventilation in most cases).

    Somewhere around 1/2 to 1% of the infected, mainly from the most at risk groups, will die. Every year in the US, almost 1% of the population dies. So, at first glance it seems like Wuhan Virus could potentially double the normal mortality (if everyone got Wuhan Virus this year), which would be pretty serious. However, in my opinion there is a large (but not total) overlap between those who are dying of Wuhan Virus and those who were going to die anyway during the next 12 months from non-Wuhan flu, pneumonia or other causes, so the EXCESS mortality is not going to be anywhere close to 1%. Wuhan virus is also going to disproportionately kill (has killed) a large # of people who, while they might expect to live somewhat longer than 1 year, have very poor quality of life because they have Alzheimer’s Disease or are otherwise senile or mentally disabled. While their deaths may be tragic, from a societal point of view it is no great loss (even from a personal point of view their families may be secretly relieved – the more secretly relieved they are, the greater their public show of grief) . This is going to result in a # of deaths comparable (both in # and in demographic profile) to that previously experience in bad flu years. Never in the past was the public health response to a new flu strain closing down the entire world economy.

    Given the lack of treatment options, other than keeping everyone locked up forever, I don’t see the point of the lock ups. This disease is going to continue to spread until either there is a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved. Instead of all the Wuhan deaths being concentrated in one year, we may have succeeded in spreading them out over 2 or 3 years. What does “flattening the curve” accomplish if the area under the curve is the same? Previously the excuse was that we were going to run out of ventilators but now we see that they are worthless. We are not going to repeat this insanity of shutting down the whole economy again next time. This fiasco has already deeply strained our social and economic system (how deeply remains to be seen) and repeating it over and over would surely strain it to the breaking point. Chances are that when the virus returns next year, places like NYC that experienced the brunt of the first wave will experience it much less and other cities that were spared this time will have their own epidemics. So what did we really accomplish for all of this sacrifice?

    • Replies: @Inverness

    This fiasco has already deeply strained our social and economic system (how deeply remains to be seen) and repeating it over and over would surely strain it to the breaking point.
     
    Sounds like an irresistible temptation for the Chinese.
  35. You have seen the infomercials.

    These cost around $2400. Forget about it right now though.

  36. @Lockean Proviso
    Natives of the Himalayas and the Andes have two separate genetic mutations that adapt them to altitude. One people, I think the Andes Indians, have a mutation that produces more EPO, Erithropoetin, than flatlanders. Synthetic EPO is the drug that took over pro cycling in the late 90s. Danish Tour de France winner Bjarne Riis was nicknamed 'Mr. 60%' for his unnaturally high hematocrit count, the percentage of red blood cells in the blood. Some early EPO abusers died because their blood was so thick that when they sweated out moisture, their blood turned to sludge and they had heart attacks during races. Anyway, the Bolivians make it at naturally high levels to help them live at high elevations with more red blood cells in circulation.

    The Tibetans have a different genetic adaptation that increases their pulse rate over the norm so as to circulate and oxygenate blood through the lungs at a faster rate. I don't have that reference but it was an interesting study that illustrated different adaptations to similar circumstance.

    The Tibetans have a different genetic adaptation that increases their pulse rate over the norm so as to circulate and oxygenate blood through the lungs at a faster rate. I don’t have that reference but it was an interesting study that illustrated different adaptations to similar circumstance.

    It’s believed the Tibetans acquired their high altitude adaptive gene by cross-breeding with archaic Denisovans.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/07/tibetans-inherited-high-altitude-gene-ancient-human

  37. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    My company recently had a very expensive mistake. Boss doubled down on the habits that resulted in the mistake. Very stressful, but seeing people double down on a more obvious issue with more severe consequences really drives home how hard admitting you are wrong can be. It is helping me stay sane at work.

  38. @Cloudswrest
    The sellers I saw on Ebay won't sell you one (in America) unless you provide them with a prescription. Apparently they're not OTC in America.

    Right, I heard that too, but I got mine without any trouble. Even 120v, but I haven’t opened it up yet to confirm.

    Next time I’m choosing a career I think I’ll choose one that people are required to use on pain of imprisonment. Neat little racket imho.

  39. @Father O'Hara
    The USS Comfort is goin' home. The ship basically didnt do shit. At least the medics got a chance to chill out.
    Cough...

    A particularly scenic bit of health-care theatre.

  40. @Buzz Mohawk
    Basically, we are talking about having some version of what Hillary and Tenzing had:

    https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/centaur-wp/theengineer/prod/content/uploads/2017/06/08151848/Hillary_and_tenzing.jpg

    No, they have oxygen masks. I imagine that what they are wearing was adapted from the systems worn by pilots in the days before pressurized cabins. There are “power respirators” that have similar hoses but they just lead to fans and filters and don’t involve carrying tanks of pure oxygen. There are also the air packs worn by fire fighters but their tanks are just filled with ( filtered) compressed air and not pure oxygen.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm sorry. I meant in the general sense of the oxygen concentrators you were originally referring to. My father used one when sleeping during his last year or so. He lived in our old house at 7,800 feet.

    Mountain climbers' oxygen masks and bottles are neither concentrators nor respirators. Sorry for the confusion.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    BTW did you read about the actor Nick Cordero, who lost a leg due to clotting during oxygen treatment for COVID-19? They had him on an "EMCO" machine. Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation adds oxygen to the blood outside the body. It works like a heart-lung machine, and I don't think anybody will be buying one for home use.
  41. @AnonAnon

    How about we go on about our business and take our chances ?
     
    Ha! It’s fearporn 24/7 here. The question is, is it organic or are people on the payroll?

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/494106-officials-found-china-amplified-disinformation-about-coronavirus

    “U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly determined that Chinese operatives helped spread messages that aimed to spark alarm about the coronavirus pandemic starting in mid-March.”

    Ah, they’re just thinking of Godflee.

  42. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    It depends how you are score the match as between the Alarmists and Skeptics.

    When judged against, say, the Imperial College model, which came up with 2.2M deaths based on 1% IFR and 81% infection rate, the Skeptics are looking good. IFR could end up being as low as one-third to one-tenth of that number.

    And the utility of the total lockdown policy as compared to the Swedish model is looking dubious.

  43. @Buzz Mohawk
    Well, some of us here just want a more balanced approach to this story and problem. Let's weigh the costs of:

    1) Shutting down our country and others, killing tens of millions of jobs and livelihoods, and creating trillions more debt-dollars out of thin air,

    Against 2) The benefits of saving some lives, mostly vulnerable to begin with, and slowing down the spread of a respiratory virus with a mortality rate that appears to indeed be below one percent.

    The terms "Coronavirus Skeptics," "Flu Hoaxers" and "It's Just the Flu" sound like the kinds of things you have rightfully called out the CIA and others in Our American Pravda universe for using in the past. Like the terms "Conspiracy Theory" and "Conspiracy Theorist," they are the kinds of terms designed to throw a shadow on legitimately concerned people who question the mainstream narrative. They are beneath you; and this commenter, at least, does not fit into any of those categories.

    SARS-CoV-2 is not just the flu, but neither is it the Black Death. The actions we take, and the stories you write, should be balanced. You bear a responsibility as a public intellectual to carefully inform your readers and the growing portion of the public you reach. We need people like you to help us form our own opinions.

    Ron’s towards the vulnerable age, so he’s going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have “a bad flu season” which means we’ve been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Ron is about a year younger than I am. Steve is about a year older. I don't think either one has enjoyed my physical lifestyle though. And yes, I am bragging. I have to, because I am not as smart as either one of them.

    They can estimate the danger better than I can, but I don't have to worry about it as much. Maybe it evens out mathematically as an HBD equivalence. I bet they could figure that out too.
    , @Ron Unz

    Ron’s towards the vulnerable age, so he’s going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have “a bad flu season” which means we’ve been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.
     
    Not really. I'll freely admit I was getting pretty nervous about the situation in California six or seven weeks ago, but the prompt action by Dr. Sarah Cody changed everything:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    If you bother checking through my comment-archive, you'll see that I've repeatedly said that things are perfectly fine here in California and especially in the Bay Area, with low rates of infection or death. And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease, that's really an amazing accomplishment. Rates are also low in e.g. Texas, but they haven't really yet been "tested" there, so who knows what will eventually happen.

    And because we had the earliest lockdown, there's certainly no sense of panic. You see cars and people all around Palo Alto, though obviously much fewer than usual. For me, the biggest change/annoyance is that restaurants and coffee shops don't allow dine-in seating.

    Still, if stupid government action leads to many additional areas of the country being "another New York," tens of thousands of desperate refugees may flee here, which would restart the epidemic.

    The bottom line is that the new NYC study seems to suggest an IFR=1%, much higher than I have more recently believed. And an IFR=1% implies a couple of million American deaths absent a national lockdown or similarly effective measures. It's just math.
  44. @Jack D
    No, they have oxygen masks. I imagine that what they are wearing was adapted from the systems worn by pilots in the days before pressurized cabins. There are "power respirators" that have similar hoses but they just lead to fans and filters and don't involve carrying tanks of pure oxygen. There are also the air packs worn by fire fighters but their tanks are just filled with ( filtered) compressed air and not pure oxygen.

    I’m sorry. I meant in the general sense of the oxygen concentrators you were originally referring to. My father used one when sleeping during his last year or so. He lived in our old house at 7,800 feet.

    Mountain climbers’ oxygen masks and bottles are neither concentrators nor respirators. Sorry for the confusion.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    However, some concentrators offer the option of allowing you to use the concentrator's output to fill a bottle that you can use when you are not home or when the power is out. Although most supplemental oxygen users get by with nasal cannulas (the oxygen line just spritzes a little extra oxygen into your nostrils) rather than full face masks.
  45. @Jack D
    No, they have oxygen masks. I imagine that what they are wearing was adapted from the systems worn by pilots in the days before pressurized cabins. There are "power respirators" that have similar hoses but they just lead to fans and filters and don't involve carrying tanks of pure oxygen. There are also the air packs worn by fire fighters but their tanks are just filled with ( filtered) compressed air and not pure oxygen.

    BTW did you read about the actor Nick Cordero, who lost a leg due to clotting during oxygen treatment for COVID-19? They had him on an “EMCO” machine. Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation adds oxygen to the blood outside the body. It works like a heart-lung machine, and I don’t think anybody will be buying one for home use.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    ECMO is a last resort to pulling the plug on your ventilator, a Hail Mary. They have in effect temporarily written off your lungs, even if you pump air into them. If all you lose from the ECMO is your leg and not your life or your higher intellectual functions, you should consider yourself lucky. I assume that they are using it mostly for younger people who might actually have some chance of surviving and where it would be a bloody shame to lose someone so young.

    The point of getting oxygen early is to prevent you from getting to that point. However, it's not clear to me whether early oxygen will really stop the progress of the virus or the damage that it is causing to your lungs. But the lack of oxygen itself is damaging to your lungs and other organs. Eventually, if you are going to live, your immune system has to kick in and expel the virus and you have to live long enough for that to happen so if oxygen delays the time when you can no longer breath on your own you might have a better chance of winning the race between the virus and your immune system.

  46. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm sorry. I meant in the general sense of the oxygen concentrators you were originally referring to. My father used one when sleeping during his last year or so. He lived in our old house at 7,800 feet.

    Mountain climbers' oxygen masks and bottles are neither concentrators nor respirators. Sorry for the confusion.

    However, some concentrators offer the option of allowing you to use the concentrator’s output to fill a bottle that you can use when you are not home or when the power is out. Although most supplemental oxygen users get by with nasal cannulas (the oxygen line just spritzes a little extra oxygen into your nostrils) rather than full face masks.

  47. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    Ron, yes. It is nice to see people more aligned with reality. I haven’t seen anyone talking about 2 million deaths by midsummer in quite some time.

    The constant spamming of threads with conspiracy theories that the US brought Corona to China has also died down.

    Happy times.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  48. @Buzz Mohawk
    BTW did you read about the actor Nick Cordero, who lost a leg due to clotting during oxygen treatment for COVID-19? They had him on an "EMCO" machine. Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation adds oxygen to the blood outside the body. It works like a heart-lung machine, and I don't think anybody will be buying one for home use.

    ECMO is a last resort to pulling the plug on your ventilator, a Hail Mary. They have in effect temporarily written off your lungs, even if you pump air into them. If all you lose from the ECMO is your leg and not your life or your higher intellectual functions, you should consider yourself lucky. I assume that they are using it mostly for younger people who might actually have some chance of surviving and where it would be a bloody shame to lose someone so young.

    The point of getting oxygen early is to prevent you from getting to that point. However, it’s not clear to me whether early oxygen will really stop the progress of the virus or the damage that it is causing to your lungs. But the lack of oxygen itself is damaging to your lungs and other organs. Eventually, if you are going to live, your immune system has to kick in and expel the virus and you have to live long enough for that to happen so if oxygen delays the time when you can no longer breath on your own you might have a better chance of winning the race between the virus and your immune system.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The 44 year old ER doctor in Seattle who played for Northwestern U. in 1996 Rose Bowl recovered from being on an ECMO machine and is now home. But you may need that kind of rugged constitution.
  49. Scott Adams is also advocating the use of an oximeter.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Scott Adams has the same kind of granite we have. I kind of regretted our choice, but now I feel better. Thanks!
  50. The best thing about all the testing that we all want is how our government will finally have lots of our DNA. Imagine the good that will come from that.

  51. @ScarletNumber
    Scott Adams is also advocating the use of an oximeter.

    https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1253401528456474624

    Scott Adams has the same kind of granite we have. I kind of regretted our choice, but now I feel better. Thanks!

    • LOL: fish
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Regretted your choice, funny that. We did too after installing a pink granite.

    But why? Why did you regret it? What would you have done differently? I’m asking because I’m about to install new countertops as part of our current remodel in a different home and I was leaning towards a lighter, whiter tone. Seriously, I want to hear what you think.
  52. @Jack D
    ECMO is a last resort to pulling the plug on your ventilator, a Hail Mary. They have in effect temporarily written off your lungs, even if you pump air into them. If all you lose from the ECMO is your leg and not your life or your higher intellectual functions, you should consider yourself lucky. I assume that they are using it mostly for younger people who might actually have some chance of surviving and where it would be a bloody shame to lose someone so young.

    The point of getting oxygen early is to prevent you from getting to that point. However, it's not clear to me whether early oxygen will really stop the progress of the virus or the damage that it is causing to your lungs. But the lack of oxygen itself is damaging to your lungs and other organs. Eventually, if you are going to live, your immune system has to kick in and expel the virus and you have to live long enough for that to happen so if oxygen delays the time when you can no longer breath on your own you might have a better chance of winning the race between the virus and your immune system.

    The 44 year old ER doctor in Seattle who played for Northwestern U. in 1996 Rose Bowl recovered from being on an ECMO machine and is now home. But you may need that kind of rugged constitution.

  53. @Redneck farmer
    Ron's towards the vulnerable age, so he's going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have "a bad flu season" which means we've been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.

    Ron is about a year younger than I am. Steve is about a year older. I don’t think either one has enjoyed my physical lifestyle though. And yes, I am bragging. I have to, because I am not as smart as either one of them.

    They can estimate the danger better than I can, but I don’t have to worry about it as much. Maybe it evens out mathematically as an HBD equivalence. I bet they could figure that out too.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Ron is about a year younger than I am. Steve is about a year older.
     
    So, if Ron, Buzz and Steve walk into a bar together, at approximately the speed of light, who will get drunk first, who will tell the best joke and who will contract coronavirus?

    Keep in mind: Ron doesn't drink.

  54. @Buzz Mohawk
    Ron is about a year younger than I am. Steve is about a year older. I don't think either one has enjoyed my physical lifestyle though. And yes, I am bragging. I have to, because I am not as smart as either one of them.

    They can estimate the danger better than I can, but I don't have to worry about it as much. Maybe it evens out mathematically as an HBD equivalence. I bet they could figure that out too.

    Ron is about a year younger than I am. Steve is about a year older.

    So, if Ron, Buzz and Steve walk into a bar together, at approximately the speed of light, who will get drunk first, who will tell the best joke and who will contract coronavirus?

    Keep in mind: Ron doesn’t drink.

  55. @Buzz Mohawk
    Scott Adams has the same kind of granite we have. I kind of regretted our choice, but now I feel better. Thanks!

    Regretted your choice, funny that. We did too after installing a pink granite.

    But why? Why did you regret it? What would you have done differently? I’m asking because I’m about to install new countertops as part of our current remodel in a different home and I was leaning towards a lighter, whiter tone. Seriously, I want to hear what you think.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I would lean toward a lighter, whiter tone too. The man-made quartz materials have gotten better recently, and they are what I would look at now.

    Originally, we wanted something that looked like white marble, but marble itself is too soft and susceptible to staining and scratching. Man-made surfaces then (8 years ago) all looked too simple or fake (like a bunch of sand bonded together, which I think it kind of is) so we found the whitest granite we could, a Brazilian type called Alaska White. Picked out the slab at an Italian-American, family-owned local place and had their guys cut and install it.

    The problem is, that granite isn't really white, it just has white areas and looks like what Scott Adams has. It acts like camouflage, hiding every spill or spot of gunk that gets on it. It does have some cool, big hunks of quartz in it though.

    The only way to see if the surface is clean is to look at an angle with light reflecting off it. I hate that, but my wife still loves our granite (and she is very clean and keeps a clean house!)

    I would go for white quartz with a marble-like pattern in it. Best wishes for a beautiful remodel!
    , @L.AllenBivin
    Go with wood. It is beautiful and far more environmentally friendly. Isn't is a shame that people throw away stone countertops because the pattern or color goes out of fashion? I am not some green nazi, but the waste resulting from American housing fashion does me in.

    In different houses I have had oak, maple, and cherry counters. The cherry is the most beautiful and the oak is the most practical. The maple plank was less than ideal. Maple butcher block would have been fine but is more expensive than stone. Use waterlox to seal the counter and you are all set. If you want a water- or heat-proof surface, get an area covered with stainless steel. The best set up I have had is stainless in the sink and stovetop areas with oak everywhere else.
  56. @Anonymous
    This whole crisis has many people feeling like Grodin in MIDNIGHT RUN.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmelrncGRc

    One of the best scenes out of one of my favorite movies evah!

    Thanks.

  57. @Buzz Mohawk
    Well, some of us here just want a more balanced approach to this story and problem. Let's weigh the costs of:

    1) Shutting down our country and others, killing tens of millions of jobs and livelihoods, and creating trillions more debt-dollars out of thin air,

    Against 2) The benefits of saving some lives, mostly vulnerable to begin with, and slowing down the spread of a respiratory virus with a mortality rate that appears to indeed be below one percent.

    The terms "Coronavirus Skeptics," "Flu Hoaxers" and "It's Just the Flu" sound like the kinds of things you have rightfully called out the CIA and others in Our American Pravda universe for using in the past. Like the terms "Conspiracy Theory" and "Conspiracy Theorist," they are the kinds of terms designed to throw a shadow on legitimately concerned people who question the mainstream narrative. They are beneath you; and this commenter, at least, does not fit into any of those categories.

    SARS-CoV-2 is not just the flu, but neither is it the Black Death. The actions we take, and the stories you write, should be balanced. You bear a responsibility as a public intellectual to carefully inform your readers and the growing portion of the public you reach. We need people like you to help us form our own opinions.

    Disagree Buzz, as we need people like him to run a solid, almost bug-free web site, do that great software development that allows him to archive material that others want to memory hole, and be an incorruptible stalwart for free speech. That’s all.

    Of course, the proprietor of this great site has every right to publish his own long conspiracy theories on everything, even if it’s often nothing but anti-Americanism* at every step. The American Pravda stuff is entertaining and often has good, believable information that’s contrary to the long-held narrative. However, my Dad told me to believe 1/2 of what you hear and 1/4 of what you read, and I take no exception on that with Mr. Unz’s writings.

    As far as the Kung Flu, I take my side based on common sense and a little PERSPECTIVE, something in short demand from those who spend 1/2 their waking hours in front of the idiot plate or small-screen looking at numbers designed to scare and keep one tuned in as to a John Carpenter horror movie.

    .

    * I don’t mean by that anti-American-Feral Gov’t. I agree with usually anyone there. He and the Commie writers are plain anti- all things American.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I understand.
  58. @Kratoklastes

    more convinced than ever that “It’s Just the Flu!!!”
     
    No need for exclamation points: the canonical version is "It's just the flu, bro".

    It's meant to be laconic. It's meant to be a counter to hysteria - flu-bro's don't have uteri in which to gestate fear-demons.

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC's latest 'antibody' test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests - certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:

    IF SARS-nCoV2 is as contagious as initially claimed,
    THEN a very large proportion of the population was already infected by the time lockdowns were put in place
    .
     
    .

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.

    At least the results of Coronageddon make sense - as opposed to the idea that increasing the Earth's mean annual temperature from 14.7°C to 16.2°C over a century can reliably be said to affect anything whatsoever... especially when the last half-century has seen temperature increases of about the same magnitude, and the fastest increase in living standards in human history.

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:

    Well, things are obviously pretty horrible in NYC, and I’m not too surprised by the pretty high estimate of the infections there that just came out. But the implications aren’t happy ones.

    According to the NYT, there have been over 19K “excess deaths” in NYC over the last six weeks, suggesting that the Coronavirus killed something like 0.22% of the total population during that period:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of complicating and conflicting factors, including issues of timing, but if you just naively combine that with the supposed infection rate, you get an IFR of above 1%. Frankly, that’s roughly twice as high as I would have thought a few days ago.

    By contrast, the infection rates in Santa Clara County and LA were just totally ridiculous, and the studies terrible since they used non-random sampling. Given the NYC totals, if the CA infection rates were that high, deaths would have been 5-10x what they are.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    So I really had expected a higher infection rate in NYC, and the numbers from that study really aren’t good news at all.

    • Replies: @Thoughts
    But why is it Only New York?

    Why is it...that in the Most Liberal Stronghold....Why is that the only place reaching Pandemic Levels?

    That right there is a big Red Flag.

    London and New York are occupied territory. Nothing that comes out of those two places is to be taken as a serious De Facto, This Is Truth, Data Point

    The people of New York are the SpinMonsters. Spin is what they Do. Every aspect of life there is controlled by the SpinMonsters.

    There's two piles of data...one from unoccupied territory and one from occupied territory

    The data from unoccupied territory shows that this is a very easy-going little disease, assuming it even exists.
    , @Jack D

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.
     
    From that 2M you have to subtract those who were going to die anyway within say calendar 2020. There wold have been a very substantial overlap. (And in my book at least, you also have to subtract those people who were the living dead such as those living in the "memory wards" of nursing homes who could no longer even recognize their own children. This plague is a blessing for them and not a curse, though nursing home operators will sure miss their Medicare checks.) Also, does it make a difference if these same 2M are going to die from Wuhan Virus anyway, but as a result of destroying our economy, some of them are now going to die next winter instead of this winter so the numbers are spread out over several years?

    There never was going to be a "health-care collapse". While our dedicated health care professionals, by habit, fight every case of the virus, there's really not a lot they can do (until they figure out better treatment protocols) for the aged, so a lot of the diversion of health care resources and hooking up of 90 year olds to ventilators was futile and unnecessary. They could have skipped giving this care (and not scared everyone else away from hospitals even if they were having heart attacks) and the results would have been the same or possibly even better. We had a POLITICAL crisis not a health care crisis. All they needed to do was to say "we don't put anyone over 85 on a ventilator - they don't medically benefit from them", and instantly no health care collapse. If things got even worse, they could have also triaged other patients with little chance of recovery on a ventilator - the morbidly obese, the diabetic and so on. Ventilators sometimes work for individuals who were young and healthy when their disease began (and even then they often emerge quite damaged mentally and physically by their bout with the ventilator - someday they will be viewed as a primitive horror that our ancestors inflicted on the sick) but for others they are just a waste of resources.

    But wasting resources seems to be our society's specialty. We may not be good at much anymore, but we're the world champions in wasting money.
    , @obwandiyag
    You may be interested in this article, in which a highly conservative commentator takes on directly the Just-the-Fluers.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2020/04/23/flu-cranks/
  59. @Ron Unz
    Well, it's nice to see that Reality has now shifted a few of the former "Coronavirus Skeptics" towards a more sensible position.

    Unfortunately, lots of the fanatic "Flu Hoaxers" have redoubled their zealotry and seem more convinced than ever that "It's Just the Flu!!!"

    I’ve flipped from thinking it was a reasonably bad flu to a hoax. What you just wrote convinces me even more. I’m going outside to socialize.

    Kavanaugh, Russia Hoax, Impeachment, now the Flu…This is just the Deep state making another thing up to try to f-up the country

  60. @Ron Unz

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:
     
    Well, things are obviously pretty horrible in NYC, and I'm not too surprised by the pretty high estimate of the infections there that just came out. But the implications aren't happy ones.

    According to the NYT, there have been over 19K "excess deaths" in NYC over the last six weeks, suggesting that the Coronavirus killed something like 0.22% of the total population during that period:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of complicating and conflicting factors, including issues of timing, but if you just naively combine that with the supposed infection rate, you get an IFR of above 1%. Frankly, that's roughly twice as high as I would have thought a few days ago.

    By contrast, the infection rates in Santa Clara County and LA were just totally ridiculous, and the studies terrible since they used non-random sampling. Given the NYC totals, if the CA infection rates were that high, deaths would have been 5-10x what they are.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    So I really had expected a higher infection rate in NYC, and the numbers from that study really aren't good news at all.

    But why is it Only New York?

    Why is it…that in the Most Liberal Stronghold….Why is that the only place reaching Pandemic Levels?

    That right there is a big Red Flag.

    London and New York are occupied territory. Nothing that comes out of those two places is to be taken as a serious De Facto, This Is Truth, Data Point

    The people of New York are the SpinMonsters. Spin is what they Do. Every aspect of life there is controlled by the SpinMonsters.

    There’s two piles of data…one from unoccupied territory and one from occupied territory

    The data from unoccupied territory shows that this is a very easy-going little disease, assuming it even exists.

  61. @Redneck farmer
    Ron's towards the vulnerable age, so he's going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have "a bad flu season" which means we've been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.

    Ron’s towards the vulnerable age, so he’s going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have “a bad flu season” which means we’ve been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.

    Not really. I’ll freely admit I was getting pretty nervous about the situation in California six or seven weeks ago, but the prompt action by Dr. Sarah Cody changed everything:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    If you bother checking through my comment-archive, you’ll see that I’ve repeatedly said that things are perfectly fine here in California and especially in the Bay Area, with low rates of infection or death. And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease, that’s really an amazing accomplishment. Rates are also low in e.g. Texas, but they haven’t really yet been “tested” there, so who knows what will eventually happen.

    And because we had the earliest lockdown, there’s certainly no sense of panic. You see cars and people all around Palo Alto, though obviously much fewer than usual. For me, the biggest change/annoyance is that restaurants and coffee shops don’t allow dine-in seating.

    Still, if stupid government action leads to many additional areas of the country being “another New York,” tens of thousands of desperate refugees may flee here, which would restart the epidemic.

    The bottom line is that the new NYC study seems to suggest an IFR=1%, much higher than I have more recently believed. And an IFR=1% implies a couple of million American deaths absent a national lockdown or similarly effective measures. It’s just math.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease"

    😂

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    And all the young people donning masks - they clearly never read the raw fake statistics on kungflu mortality, because even the FAKE numbers show younguns are immune to HoaxCold.

    And all the people walking about with a mask pulled down around their necks - virtue signalling never felt so good.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.
    , @Mehen

    It’s just math.
     
    Telling...
  62. The statement that people with oximeter readings of 50% have no shortness of breath is ridiculous. They would be dead if the reading was accurate. Readings can be falsely low for several reasons: peripheral vasoconstriction most likely. I’m a retired physician, and I know what I’m talking about.

  63. @Ron Unz

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:
     
    Well, things are obviously pretty horrible in NYC, and I'm not too surprised by the pretty high estimate of the infections there that just came out. But the implications aren't happy ones.

    According to the NYT, there have been over 19K "excess deaths" in NYC over the last six weeks, suggesting that the Coronavirus killed something like 0.22% of the total population during that period:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of complicating and conflicting factors, including issues of timing, but if you just naively combine that with the supposed infection rate, you get an IFR of above 1%. Frankly, that's roughly twice as high as I would have thought a few days ago.

    By contrast, the infection rates in Santa Clara County and LA were just totally ridiculous, and the studies terrible since they used non-random sampling. Given the NYC totals, if the CA infection rates were that high, deaths would have been 5-10x what they are.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    So I really had expected a higher infection rate in NYC, and the numbers from that study really aren't good news at all.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    From that 2M you have to subtract those who were going to die anyway within say calendar 2020. There wold have been a very substantial overlap. (And in my book at least, you also have to subtract those people who were the living dead such as those living in the “memory wards” of nursing homes who could no longer even recognize their own children. This plague is a blessing for them and not a curse, though nursing home operators will sure miss their Medicare checks.) Also, does it make a difference if these same 2M are going to die from Wuhan Virus anyway, but as a result of destroying our economy, some of them are now going to die next winter instead of this winter so the numbers are spread out over several years?

    There never was going to be a “health-care collapse”. While our dedicated health care professionals, by habit, fight every case of the virus, there’s really not a lot they can do (until they figure out better treatment protocols) for the aged, so a lot of the diversion of health care resources and hooking up of 90 year olds to ventilators was futile and unnecessary. They could have skipped giving this care (and not scared everyone else away from hospitals even if they were having heart attacks) and the results would have been the same or possibly even better. We had a POLITICAL crisis not a health care crisis. All they needed to do was to say “we don’t put anyone over 85 on a ventilator – they don’t medically benefit from them”, and instantly no health care collapse. If things got even worse, they could have also triaged other patients with little chance of recovery on a ventilator – the morbidly obese, the diabetic and so on. Ventilators sometimes work for individuals who were young and healthy when their disease began (and even then they often emerge quite damaged mentally and physically by their bout with the ventilator – someday they will be viewed as a primitive horror that our ancestors inflicted on the sick) but for others they are just a waste of resources.

    But wasting resources seems to be our society’s specialty. We may not be good at much anymore, but we’re the world champions in wasting money.

  64. I am the septuagenarian with wife in nursing home. My wife also has had severe apnea for which

    for over 15 years she has used a CPAP. CPAPs are uncomfortable and require careful daily

    cleaning of numerous small parts to prevent unhygenic growths in the CPAP. Also

    CPAPs require deionized water which can be difficult to obtain on travels. Travelled

    to over 100 countries using the CPAP and later oxygen concentrators (for interstitial

    lung disease diagnosed later than apnea).

    Stationary oxygen concentrators are larger and cheaper than portable. cost around

    $1,100 and need electric power. Provide higher rates of oxygen than portable

    portable concentrators.

    [MORE]

    Portable oxygen concentrators are obviously much more expensive (often over

    $2,000). Can use battery or 110/220 current. However, airlines require

    portable concentrators running on batteries. Batteries last 2-3 hours depending

    on rate of oxygen supply and costs $500-600 EACH. We have five batteries

    for long flights (18 hours LAX to Singapore). Useful too for power outages.

    Have two stationary concentrators in case one fails. Portable concentrators

    are a pain due to frequent charging and delicate structure vulnerable to breaking

    upon being dropped.

    Stationary concentrator provided by nursing home is so big it is on rollers.

    Brought all our oxygen equipment to nursing home. extra stationary concentrators

    are for living room and patio time. Portable concentrators useful for wheelchair walks

    and batteries provide up to 15 hours of oxygen in case of power outage.

    HMOs give you cheap stationary oxygen concentrators with which you fill “portable” tanks with.

    Not allowed on airplanes. Have three pulse oximeters which we brought along when we

    travelled. Not always accurate.

  65. @Ron Unz

    Ron’s towards the vulnerable age, so he’s going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have “a bad flu season” which means we’ve been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.
     
    Not really. I'll freely admit I was getting pretty nervous about the situation in California six or seven weeks ago, but the prompt action by Dr. Sarah Cody changed everything:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    If you bother checking through my comment-archive, you'll see that I've repeatedly said that things are perfectly fine here in California and especially in the Bay Area, with low rates of infection or death. And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease, that's really an amazing accomplishment. Rates are also low in e.g. Texas, but they haven't really yet been "tested" there, so who knows what will eventually happen.

    And because we had the earliest lockdown, there's certainly no sense of panic. You see cars and people all around Palo Alto, though obviously much fewer than usual. For me, the biggest change/annoyance is that restaurants and coffee shops don't allow dine-in seating.

    Still, if stupid government action leads to many additional areas of the country being "another New York," tens of thousands of desperate refugees may flee here, which would restart the epidemic.

    The bottom line is that the new NYC study seems to suggest an IFR=1%, much higher than I have more recently believed. And an IFR=1% implies a couple of million American deaths absent a national lockdown or similarly effective measures. It's just math.

    “And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease”

    😂

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    And all the young people donning masks – they clearly never read the raw fake statistics on kungflu mortality, because even the FAKE numbers show younguns are immune to HoaxCold.

    And all the people walking about with a mask pulled down around their necks – virtue signalling never felt so good.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.

    • Troll: James Speaks, SOL
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie
     
    Actually, the "Coronavirus Conspiracy" is far broader than that. Here's part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:

    (1) Suppose the Coronavirus either doesn’t exist or isn’t particularly dangerous, with some sort of “conspiracy” going on to trick people into believing otherwise. That supposed conspiracy seems to include the US, China, Russia, Iran, Israel, and lots of other countries that never seem to agree on anything else. So who’s organizing the conspiracy? The Martians?

    (2) Let’s focus on China, which I believe has an extremely sober and competent government. They decided the virus was so dangerous that they shut down their entire economy and locked down 700 million Chinese to stamp it out. If the virus isn’t very dangerous, why did they do that?
     
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3843522
    , @Jack D
    I feel honored to be among such esteemed company!
    , @adreadline

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.
     
    Mateen, by the number of children you have, wouldn't you be Clevon? But you do rock an IQ supra 125. So you'd be Trevor. But Trevor is a low-sperm-count, childless beta male. What's going on?

    Also, using yellow laughing emojis makes you look like a fag, and your shit's all retarded.


    virtue signalling
     
    Unamerican. 🇺🇸
  66. Coronavirus® is a hoax, a scam perpetrated to cover for a global powergrab. There is no remarkable, broad threat to public health associated with Coronavirus®. Covid 19 is a virus that seems to infect and degrade a few people who are already is piss poor physical shape for one reason or another, or a bunch of reasons. In any case, contracting Covid 19 is unfortunate, but no big deal except for the stiffs, and everything is a big deal when you die, right? We still sell (and depend on the taxes from) tobacco cigarettes and cigars. We pay (or used to pay) to watch huge, fast men bash into each other, resulting in catastropic cumulative effect from concussion.

    Choose what you want to be afraid of, and what you want to avoid. Oh, I guess that would be too much to ask of the average person, r mayor, or governor…. Pity.

  67. @Ron Unz

    Ron’s towards the vulnerable age, so he’s going to be a good deal more paranoid than a lot of us. Also, every so often we have “a bad flu season” which means we’ve been hit with a really nasty strain. People tend to forget that.
     
    Not really. I'll freely admit I was getting pretty nervous about the situation in California six or seven weeks ago, but the prompt action by Dr. Sarah Cody changed everything:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    If you bother checking through my comment-archive, you'll see that I've repeatedly said that things are perfectly fine here in California and especially in the Bay Area, with low rates of infection or death. And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease, that's really an amazing accomplishment. Rates are also low in e.g. Texas, but they haven't really yet been "tested" there, so who knows what will eventually happen.

    And because we had the earliest lockdown, there's certainly no sense of panic. You see cars and people all around Palo Alto, though obviously much fewer than usual. For me, the biggest change/annoyance is that restaurants and coffee shops don't allow dine-in seating.

    Still, if stupid government action leads to many additional areas of the country being "another New York," tens of thousands of desperate refugees may flee here, which would restart the epidemic.

    The bottom line is that the new NYC study seems to suggest an IFR=1%, much higher than I have more recently believed. And an IFR=1% implies a couple of million American deaths absent a national lockdown or similarly effective measures. It's just math.

    It’s just math.

    Telling…

  68. @Kratoklastes

    more convinced than ever that “It’s Just the Flu!!!”
     
    No need for exclamation points: the canonical version is "It's just the flu, bro".

    It's meant to be laconic. It's meant to be a counter to hysteria - flu-bro's don't have uteri in which to gestate fear-demons.

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC's latest 'antibody' test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests - certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:

    IF SARS-nCoV2 is as contagious as initially claimed,
    THEN a very large proportion of the population was already infected by the time lockdowns were put in place
    .
     
    .

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.

    At least the results of Coronageddon make sense - as opposed to the idea that increasing the Earth's mean annual temperature from 14.7°C to 16.2°C over a century can reliably be said to affect anything whatsoever... especially when the last half-century has seen temperature increases of about the same magnitude, and the fastest increase in living standards in human history.

    I would be interested in the correlation between Corona-Doomers and Climate-Cultists (members of the Cult of St Gretchen of Asperg). Coronageddon has the same flimsy, poorly-conducted, doom-mongering empirical basis as Thermageddon.

    Yep. It’s the same psychology at work. Some people just love the idea of impending doom. It makes them feel really good and it makes them feel oddly virtuous as well. It’s a kind of pseudo-scientific substitute for apocalyptic religious beliefs.

  69. @Mehen
    That ship sailed a month ago Steve.

    I had already looked into it. Apparently you need a prescription for a genuine device, and the consumer grade models on Amazon are Asian-made, highly sketchy and deceptive in their labeling.

    They each also seemed to have 5-6 reviews in broken English (presumably Asian shills)

    The real deal O2 concentrator (not the portable kind) will set you back 600-700 bucks.

    Good luck on the black market...

    “Apparently you need a prescription for a genuine device, and the consumer grade models on Amazon are Asian-made, highly sketchy and deceptive in their labeling.”

    Are you saying that in the Land Of The Free you need a permit to buy a medical-grade concentrator?

    You can get one in the UK for £1400. A cheapo Chinese home one for a few hundred pounds.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Oxygen-concentrator-Philips-respironics-EverFlo-1-5l-96-o2/283850579701?hash=item4216d01ef5:g:~S0AAOSwXYxemaAT

  70. @Colin Wright
    '... How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea?'

    Crudity doesn't normally appeal to me -- but how about a CRAP machine for all stories explicitly or implicitly taking the Coronavirus seriously?

    “taking the Coronavirus seriously”

    It’s a real event but carries with it a psychological warfare component. Evil elites (Chinese and Western) using the pandemic to make bank from a vaccine or conduct society-altering exercises are capitalizing on the crisis. Or it’s just the insidious Fu Manchu up to his old tricks.

  71. @ThreeCranes
    Regretted your choice, funny that. We did too after installing a pink granite.

    But why? Why did you regret it? What would you have done differently? I’m asking because I’m about to install new countertops as part of our current remodel in a different home and I was leaning towards a lighter, whiter tone. Seriously, I want to hear what you think.

    I would lean toward a lighter, whiter tone too. The man-made quartz materials have gotten better recently, and they are what I would look at now.

    Originally, we wanted something that looked like white marble, but marble itself is too soft and susceptible to staining and scratching. Man-made surfaces then (8 years ago) all looked too simple or fake (like a bunch of sand bonded together, which I think it kind of is) so we found the whitest granite we could, a Brazilian type called Alaska White. Picked out the slab at an Italian-American, family-owned local place and had their guys cut and install it.

    The problem is, that granite isn’t really white, it just has white areas and looks like what Scott Adams has. It acts like camouflage, hiding every spill or spot of gunk that gets on it. It does have some cool, big hunks of quartz in it though.

    The only way to see if the surface is clean is to look at an angle with light reflecting off it. I hate that, but my wife still loves our granite (and she is very clean and keeps a clean house!)

    I would go for white quartz with a marble-like pattern in it. Best wishes for a beautiful remodel!

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Thanks for the input. We too thought that it was hard to tell if the granite counter top was really clean. Like you say, it acted like camouflage. The problem with the synthetic stone stuff is the binder is epoxy, I think. And while epoxy is amazing stuff, a hot pan can still char it. But I’ll look into the newer stuff which, as you say, doesn’t look so artificial.

    Cheers.
  72. Didn’t there used to be places called “oxygen bars” about 10-15 years ago?

    It was faddish for a while but I guess the fad wore out. Or were they regulated out of business by the FDA, etc. ?

    You would go inside, purchase some O2, breathe it in, get an energy boost (or some supposed benefit) for some fee. I never used one and don’t know anyone who did. Maybe someone on Unz here can enlighten us.

    If they still exist it would seem a good business to be in right now. Of course, it might also be full of sick people.

  73. @Reg Cæsar

    He couldn’t believe that these folks were even standing with such low readings but they were. He thought what was happening was that people’s bodies were gradually acclimating to the lack of oxygen so they didn’t notice it.

     

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn't look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn't seem that far from normal, just to mom's sharp eye.

    I can imagine that had she not come, and he had died, my niece could have gone to the bar and said, "Joe, pour me a strong one. I'm a widow!" "Sorry, K.C., but I can't do that. Not till you're 21."


    He said that people were coming in to the emergency room with 50% oxygen readings, which are equivalent to being on the top of Mt. Everest, but felt no shortness of breath. (Normal readings are 95%+ and generally you should receive supplemental oxygen if you are below 90%).

     

    They don't seem too worried:

    https://www.cusco-native.com/images/images/banner/pc_cusco-native.jpg


    https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/print/u-g-P25GL80.jpg?w=550&h=550&p=0

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn’t look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn’t seem that far from normal, just to mom’s sharp eye.

    Being a poorly controlled diabetic and not having a home blood glucose meter (they are cheap for occasional use, though the strips can become expensive if you use it a lot) seems like a terrible idea.

    Seriously, tell your niece to buy him one. For example:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    This happened nearly 20 years ago, and they're no longer together. Thanks anyway-- someone else may use the tip.
  74. @Ron Unz

    I will mention, but am loath to put too much trust in, NYC’s latest ‘antibody’ test results. They, along with other high positive rates for antibody tests – certainly tilt the field in favour of my prior:
     
    Well, things are obviously pretty horrible in NYC, and I'm not too surprised by the pretty high estimate of the infections there that just came out. But the implications aren't happy ones.

    According to the NYT, there have been over 19K "excess deaths" in NYC over the last six weeks, suggesting that the Coronavirus killed something like 0.22% of the total population during that period:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of complicating and conflicting factors, including issues of timing, but if you just naively combine that with the supposed infection rate, you get an IFR of above 1%. Frankly, that's roughly twice as high as I would have thought a few days ago.

    By contrast, the infection rates in Santa Clara County and LA were just totally ridiculous, and the studies terrible since they used non-random sampling. Given the NYC totals, if the CA infection rates were that high, deaths would have been 5-10x what they are.

    An IFR=1% means 2M American deaths if it sweeps across the country and infects (say) 200M people, perhaps quite a lot higher if there are secondary effects from a health-care collapse.

    So I really had expected a higher infection rate in NYC, and the numbers from that study really aren't good news at all.

    You may be interested in this article, in which a highly conservative commentator takes on directly the Just-the-Fluers.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2020/04/23/flu-cranks/

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    You may be interested in this article, in which a highly conservative commentator takes on directly the Just-the-Fluers.
     
    Yes, that WN blogger had been running lots of nice pieces against the crazy Flu Hoaxers, and I actually republished one or two of them in the last couple of weeks.

    Here's an excellent Financial Times chart courtesy of MoA, showing the total weekly deaths in Britain for nearly the last 50(!) years:

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/britainexessdeath2.jpg
  75. @Scott Novak
    "CPAP machines keep the airpassage open during sleep apnea, no sure how that would help with corona".

    In sleep apnea, oxygen levels spike down multiple times per minute. The test for sleep apnea involves sleeping overnight with a pulse oximiter strapped to you with a memory recording all of the spikes down. Here is some rank speculation here: but if COVID had lowered a person's baseline oxygenation, then preventing further spikes down would probably be important. I wonder if there are normal mild perturbations small enough that someone wouldn't even be diagnosed with sleep apnea, but could become dangerous once you have CV? For that matter, most sleep apnea isn't even treated in *vast* numbers of people, so maybe the option of not getting treated becomes more of a deadly gamble when you get CV?

    But regardless, if you look it up, multiple articles and medical/CDC documents have cited CPAP/BiPAP machines as possible earlier but still serious "pre-ventilator stage" treatments - because that is what they are for most other diseases that can lead to being on a ventilator. The only downside listed is that they aren't a closed system so they still allow the Coronavirus to get out of your body and infect others - irrelevant for the patient but undesirable for the hospital and staff.

    As an aside - it would be pretty sad if Ventilators had been overprescribed because they are closed systems and don't shoot out a CV aerosol when it looks like some countries have solved the CPAP aerosol problem with a simple plastic bucket thing over people's heads. I haven't read any hard evidence of this but it has been a vaguely implied possibility. This is the kind of so simple it's silly but valuble discovery that takes time to filter through the medical establishment that is the silver lining in the delay fostered by the lockdown, even if most of us really are doomed to get CV in the end.

    Do you know if the pulse oximeters on fitness bands are sensitive enough to test for sleep apnea?
    https://www.wareable.com/wearable-tech/pulse-oximeter-explained-fitbit-garmin-wearables-340

  76. @res

    My niece married a diabetic. After a few months, his mother came for a visit, and thought he didn’t look quite right. They went to the ER and found his blood sugar was over 700. But he didn’t seem that far from normal, just to mom’s sharp eye.
     
    Being a poorly controlled diabetic and not having a home blood glucose meter (they are cheap for occasional use, though the strips can become expensive if you use it a lot) seems like a terrible idea.

    Seriously, tell your niece to buy him one. For example:
    https://www.amazon.com/Care-Touch-Diabetes-Testing-Kit/dp/B07G783R7X

    This happened nearly 20 years ago, and they’re no longer together. Thanks anyway– someone else may use the tip.

  77. EXCLUSIVE: ‘I’ll live to be at least 150!’ DailyMailTV finds Michael Jackson’s oxygen rejuvenation chamber where he took naps in hopes of living ‘forever’ 10 years after his death

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7192525/Inside-Michael-Jacksons-100-000-oxygen-rejuvenation-chamber-used-combat-aging.html

  78. In other news the air that we are breathing is now the cleanest purest healthiest that many of us have ever experienced since the day we were born.

  79. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease"

    😂

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    And all the young people donning masks - they clearly never read the raw fake statistics on kungflu mortality, because even the FAKE numbers show younguns are immune to HoaxCold.

    And all the people walking about with a mask pulled down around their necks - virtue signalling never felt so good.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    Actually, the “Coronavirus Conspiracy” is far broader than that. Here’s part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:

    (1) Suppose the Coronavirus either doesn’t exist or isn’t particularly dangerous, with some sort of “conspiracy” going on to trick people into believing otherwise. That supposed conspiracy seems to include the US, China, Russia, Iran, Israel, and lots of other countries that never seem to agree on anything else. So who’s organizing the conspiracy? The Martians?

    (2) Let’s focus on China, which I believe has an extremely sober and competent government. They decided the virus was so dangerous that they shut down their entire economy and locked down 700 million Chinese to stamp it out. If the virus isn’t very dangerous, why did they do that?

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3843522

    • Replies: @James Speaks

    Actually, the “Coronavirus Conspiracy” is far broader than that. Here’s part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:
     
    You forgot to mention inter-galactic conspirators.
    , @Brás Cubas
    I agree with you (for now anyway, with the data currently available) that Corona is real. But I must repeat my remark of a previous comment (about China and its capacity for lying): your argument here is absolutely worthless.

    The Holocaust is, according to you, partly or completely a Hoax. And yet that Hoax is subscribed as fact by just as wide an array of countries as those you mention regarding Corona. Of course, Iran would have to be excluded regarding the Holocaust, but then again Belarus similarly would not be a part of the Corona alleged hoax.

    And, besides, why are you focusing on countries (which in practice means a certain number of bureaucrats and politicians who happened to achieve positions of power) and not on independent experts, who are people which should be heard in cases like this? Several experts disagree on some or all of the mainstream narrative on Corona. *All* the conspiracies you denounce regularly on your American Pravda series are widely accepted concepts which find opposition not in high circles of governments (with very few exceptions) but in dissident scholars.

    As I said, I agree with you about Corona (though not about the way to fight it) because the data you show *seems* to back your claims so far. But arguments like this one only weaken your case.
  80. @obwandiyag
    You may be interested in this article, in which a highly conservative commentator takes on directly the Just-the-Fluers.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2020/04/23/flu-cranks/

    You may be interested in this article, in which a highly conservative commentator takes on directly the Just-the-Fluers.

    Yes, that WN blogger had been running lots of nice pieces against the crazy Flu Hoaxers, and I actually republished one or two of them in the last couple of weeks.

    Here’s an excellent Financial Times chart courtesy of MoA, showing the total weekly deaths in Britain for nearly the last 50(!) years:

  81. @Ron Unz

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie
     
    Actually, the "Coronavirus Conspiracy" is far broader than that. Here's part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:

    (1) Suppose the Coronavirus either doesn’t exist or isn’t particularly dangerous, with some sort of “conspiracy” going on to trick people into believing otherwise. That supposed conspiracy seems to include the US, China, Russia, Iran, Israel, and lots of other countries that never seem to agree on anything else. So who’s organizing the conspiracy? The Martians?

    (2) Let’s focus on China, which I believe has an extremely sober and competent government. They decided the virus was so dangerous that they shut down their entire economy and locked down 700 million Chinese to stamp it out. If the virus isn’t very dangerous, why did they do that?
     
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3843522

    Actually, the “Coronavirus Conspiracy” is far broader than that. Here’s part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:

    You forgot to mention inter-galactic conspirators.

  82. CPAP won’t help, unfortunately. They don’t provide extra oxygen, only pressure – similar to the positive pressure used with ventilators (PEEP) that’s thought to be doing more harm than good right now.

    They look similar to oxygen supplementation equipment like nasal cannulae, but have a very different function.

  83. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease"

    😂

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    And all the young people donning masks - they clearly never read the raw fake statistics on kungflu mortality, because even the FAKE numbers show younguns are immune to HoaxCold.

    And all the people walking about with a mask pulled down around their necks - virtue signalling never felt so good.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.

    I feel honored to be among such esteemed company!

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "I feel honored to be among such esteemed company!"

    Twice you feigned expertise in subjects of which I am expert, twice you got it completely wrong - and it wasn't subtle or debatable. You're a conman.
  84. @Jack D
    I feel honored to be among such esteemed company!

    “I feel honored to be among such esteemed company!”

    Twice you feigned expertise in subjects of which I am expert, twice you got it completely wrong – and it wasn’t subtle or debatable. You’re a conman.

  85. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And since we started out as a national epicenter of this exponential-disease"

    😂

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie

    And all the young people donning masks - they clearly never read the raw fake statistics on kungflu mortality, because even the FAKE numbers show younguns are immune to HoaxCold.

    And all the people walking about with a mask pulled down around their necks - virtue signalling never felt so good.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.

    As we larp our way through Idiocracy, the actors are identifying far too strongly with their assigned characters.

    Mateen, by the number of children you have, wouldn’t you be Clevon? But you do rock an IQ supra 125. So you’d be Trevor. But Trevor is a low-sperm-count, childless beta male. What’s going on?

    Also, using yellow laughing emojis makes you look like a fag, and your shit’s all retarded.

    virtue signalling

    Unamerican. 🇺🇸

  86. just ordered my mother a few cases of Tonic water and vitamins , Zinc lozenges and some nicotine patches and gum. Prevention is the key to fighting this virus.

    Tonic water contains quinine. Andrew Cuomo and his wife took quinine to fight CV. Quinine is an antiviral similar hydroxychloroquine. They both help get zinc across cell membranes to stop virus replication within the cells. Tobacco users have much lower rates of CV infection , probably due to the nicotines effect on ACE2 receptors. So stock up on Quinine (tonic water) and nicotine lozenges.

  87. @ThreeCranes
    Regretted your choice, funny that. We did too after installing a pink granite.

    But why? Why did you regret it? What would you have done differently? I’m asking because I’m about to install new countertops as part of our current remodel in a different home and I was leaning towards a lighter, whiter tone. Seriously, I want to hear what you think.

    Go with wood. It is beautiful and far more environmentally friendly. Isn’t is a shame that people throw away stone countertops because the pattern or color goes out of fashion? I am not some green nazi, but the waste resulting from American housing fashion does me in.

    In different houses I have had oak, maple, and cherry counters. The cherry is the most beautiful and the oak is the most practical. The maple plank was less than ideal. Maple butcher block would have been fine but is more expensive than stone. Use waterlox to seal the counter and you are all set. If you want a water- or heat-proof surface, get an area covered with stainless steel. The best set up I have had is stainless in the sink and stovetop areas with oak everywhere else.

  88. @Buzz Mohawk
    I would lean toward a lighter, whiter tone too. The man-made quartz materials have gotten better recently, and they are what I would look at now.

    Originally, we wanted something that looked like white marble, but marble itself is too soft and susceptible to staining and scratching. Man-made surfaces then (8 years ago) all looked too simple or fake (like a bunch of sand bonded together, which I think it kind of is) so we found the whitest granite we could, a Brazilian type called Alaska White. Picked out the slab at an Italian-American, family-owned local place and had their guys cut and install it.

    The problem is, that granite isn't really white, it just has white areas and looks like what Scott Adams has. It acts like camouflage, hiding every spill or spot of gunk that gets on it. It does have some cool, big hunks of quartz in it though.

    The only way to see if the surface is clean is to look at an angle with light reflecting off it. I hate that, but my wife still loves our granite (and she is very clean and keeps a clean house!)

    I would go for white quartz with a marble-like pattern in it. Best wishes for a beautiful remodel!

    Thanks for the input. We too thought that it was hard to tell if the granite counter top was really clean. Like you say, it acted like camouflage. The problem with the synthetic stone stuff is the binder is epoxy, I think. And while epoxy is amazing stuff, a hot pan can still char it. But I’ll look into the newer stuff which, as you say, doesn’t look so artificial.

    Cheers.

  89. @Colin Wright
    '... How about a CPAP machine for sleep apnea?'

    Crudity doesn't normally appeal to me -- but how about a CRAP machine for all stories explicitly or implicitly taking the Coronavirus seriously?

    Yours is a Crappy comment

  90. @Ron Unz

    CoronaHoax unmasked all the innumerate imbeciles previously hiding in plain sight:

    Sailer
    Unz
    Alexander Turok
    Chrisnomymous
    Danand
    Elli
    Hebrew National
    Hodag
    Jack D (a longtime proven fraud)
    Reiner tor
    Twinkie
     
    Actually, the "Coronavirus Conspiracy" is far broader than that. Here's part of one of my comments from a couple of weeks ago:

    (1) Suppose the Coronavirus either doesn’t exist or isn’t particularly dangerous, with some sort of “conspiracy” going on to trick people into believing otherwise. That supposed conspiracy seems to include the US, China, Russia, Iran, Israel, and lots of other countries that never seem to agree on anything else. So who’s organizing the conspiracy? The Martians?

    (2) Let’s focus on China, which I believe has an extremely sober and competent government. They decided the virus was so dangerous that they shut down their entire economy and locked down 700 million Chinese to stamp it out. If the virus isn’t very dangerous, why did they do that?
     
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3843522

    I agree with you (for now anyway, with the data currently available) that Corona is real. But I must repeat my remark of a previous comment (about China and its capacity for lying): your argument here is absolutely worthless.

    The Holocaust is, according to you, partly or completely a Hoax. And yet that Hoax is subscribed as fact by just as wide an array of countries as those you mention regarding Corona. Of course, Iran would have to be excluded regarding the Holocaust, but then again Belarus similarly would not be a part of the Corona alleged hoax.

    And, besides, why are you focusing on countries (which in practice means a certain number of bureaucrats and politicians who happened to achieve positions of power) and not on independent experts, who are people which should be heard in cases like this? Several experts disagree on some or all of the mainstream narrative on Corona. *All* the conspiracies you denounce regularly on your American Pravda series are widely accepted concepts which find opposition not in high circles of governments (with very few exceptions) but in dissident scholars.

    As I said, I agree with you about Corona (though not about the way to fight it) because the data you show *seems* to back your claims so far. But arguments like this one only weaken your case.

    • Agree: Mehen
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    My analysis above was a bit incomplete, and I can foresee some rebuttals to it, so I would like to complement it.

    First off, I admit there is some difference between the Corona case and the Holocaust. The Holocaust narrative has a single plausible interested party (the Jews), whereas Corona apparently hasn't (that seems to be your point, which I confess to have missed in my previous comment). That goes for the other American Pravda stories as well.

    Thus, I am comparing slightly different cases as if they were identical, which they aren't.

    Still, there is some room for conspiracists. They could claim that there *may* be one or more interested parties in a false narrative in the case of Corona. They could also claim that maybe this pandemic started naturally but then some people saw an opportunity for profit and pushed a certain narrative forward.

    Alternatively, they could say that this is not a conspiracy after all, but simply a case of mass hysteria.

    Fortunately, I am siding strongly with the facts. Which so far indicate that there is something different going on.

  91. @Brás Cubas
    I agree with you (for now anyway, with the data currently available) that Corona is real. But I must repeat my remark of a previous comment (about China and its capacity for lying): your argument here is absolutely worthless.

    The Holocaust is, according to you, partly or completely a Hoax. And yet that Hoax is subscribed as fact by just as wide an array of countries as those you mention regarding Corona. Of course, Iran would have to be excluded regarding the Holocaust, but then again Belarus similarly would not be a part of the Corona alleged hoax.

    And, besides, why are you focusing on countries (which in practice means a certain number of bureaucrats and politicians who happened to achieve positions of power) and not on independent experts, who are people which should be heard in cases like this? Several experts disagree on some or all of the mainstream narrative on Corona. *All* the conspiracies you denounce regularly on your American Pravda series are widely accepted concepts which find opposition not in high circles of governments (with very few exceptions) but in dissident scholars.

    As I said, I agree with you about Corona (though not about the way to fight it) because the data you show *seems* to back your claims so far. But arguments like this one only weaken your case.

    My analysis above was a bit incomplete, and I can foresee some rebuttals to it, so I would like to complement it.

    First off, I admit there is some difference between the Corona case and the Holocaust. The Holocaust narrative has a single plausible interested party (the Jews), whereas Corona apparently hasn’t (that seems to be your point, which I confess to have missed in my previous comment). That goes for the other American Pravda stories as well.

    Thus, I am comparing slightly different cases as if they were identical, which they aren’t.

    Still, there is some room for conspiracists. They could claim that there *may* be one or more interested parties in a false narrative in the case of Corona. They could also claim that maybe this pandemic started naturally but then some people saw an opportunity for profit and pushed a certain narrative forward.

    Alternatively, they could say that this is not a conspiracy after all, but simply a case of mass hysteria.

    Fortunately, I am siding strongly with the facts. Which so far indicate that there is something different going on.

  92. @Achmed E. Newman
    Disagree Buzz, as we need people like him to run a solid, almost bug-free web site, do that great software development that allows him to archive material that others want to memory hole, and be an incorruptible stalwart for free speech. That's all.

    Of course, the proprietor of this great site has every right to publish his own long conspiracy theories on everything, even if it's often nothing but anti-Americanism* at every step. The American Pravda stuff is entertaining and often has good, believable information that's contrary to the long-held narrative. However, my Dad told me to believe 1/2 of what you hear and 1/4 of what you read, and I take no exception on that with Mr. Unz's writings.

    As far as the Kung Flu, I take my side based on common sense and a little PERSPECTIVE, something in short demand from those who spend 1/2 their waking hours in front of the idiot plate or small-screen looking at numbers designed to scare and keep one tuned in as to a John Carpenter horror movie.


    .

    * I don't mean by that anti-American-Feral Gov't. I agree with usually anyone there. He and the Commie writers are plain anti- all things American.

    I understand.

  93. @Jack D
    If you are referring to me, I have not changed my views. Most people (at least 80%) will experience Wuhan Virus as a mild to moderate disease (or one which causes no symptoms at all). For around 20% of the victims, mainly (but not exclusively) folks who are older or who have pre-existing conditions, it can be more serious - those folks need to be watched closely if they become ill to make sure that their disease is not progressing further (although at present there is no clear agreement on what the best treatment is, but it's increasingly clear it's NOT mechanical ventilation in most cases).

    Somewhere around 1/2 to 1% of the infected, mainly from the most at risk groups, will die. Every year in the US, almost 1% of the population dies. So, at first glance it seems like Wuhan Virus could potentially double the normal mortality (if everyone got Wuhan Virus this year), which would be pretty serious. However, in my opinion there is a large (but not total) overlap between those who are dying of Wuhan Virus and those who were going to die anyway during the next 12 months from non-Wuhan flu, pneumonia or other causes, so the EXCESS mortality is not going to be anywhere close to 1%. Wuhan virus is also going to disproportionately kill (has killed) a large # of people who, while they might expect to live somewhat longer than 1 year, have very poor quality of life because they have Alzheimer's Disease or are otherwise senile or mentally disabled. While their deaths may be tragic, from a societal point of view it is no great loss (even from a personal point of view their families may be secretly relieved - the more secretly relieved they are, the greater their public show of grief) . This is going to result in a # of deaths comparable (both in # and in demographic profile) to that previously experience in bad flu years. Never in the past was the public health response to a new flu strain closing down the entire world economy.

    Given the lack of treatment options, other than keeping everyone locked up forever, I don't see the point of the lock ups. This disease is going to continue to spread until either there is a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved. Instead of all the Wuhan deaths being concentrated in one year, we may have succeeded in spreading them out over 2 or 3 years. What does "flattening the curve" accomplish if the area under the curve is the same? Previously the excuse was that we were going to run out of ventilators but now we see that they are worthless. We are not going to repeat this insanity of shutting down the whole economy again next time. This fiasco has already deeply strained our social and economic system (how deeply remains to be seen) and repeating it over and over would surely strain it to the breaking point. Chances are that when the virus returns next year, places like NYC that experienced the brunt of the first wave will experience it much less and other cities that were spared this time will have their own epidemics. So what did we really accomplish for all of this sacrifice?

    This fiasco has already deeply strained our social and economic system (how deeply remains to be seen) and repeating it over and over would surely strain it to the breaking point.

    Sounds like an irresistible temptation for the Chinese.

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