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A new play about the Lehman Brothers financial firm, from its founding in Alabama by Jewish immigrants in 1855 to its extinction in 2008 that helped set off the Great Financial Crash, has opened in New York to tap into the upscale market pioneered by Hamilton. It is directed by Sam Mendes, director of American Beauty with Kevin Spacey, and stars three British actors, including Simon Russell Beale who played Beria in The Death of Stalin, as the original three Lehman brothers and many others. Ben Brantley raves in the New York Times:

The script by the Italian playwright Stefano Massini, exquisitely adapted into English by Ben Power, follows the blossoming of a small Alabama clothing store in the 1840s, founded by three immigrant Jewish brothers from Bavaria, into an international powerhouse of the stock exchange, before its world-rattling collapse in 2008. …

This is Henry Lehman, a young man from Bavaria, who has just set foot on American soil for the first time. As brought to life by Mr. Beale, one of the finest classical actors alive, Henry is radiant with astonishment, trepidation and a sense of infinite possibilities. His name has already been changed (from Heyum) by a New York customs official; the journey of endlessly becoming, reflecting that of millions of arrivals to the United States then and now, has begun.

It’s a moment that will feel achingly familiar to anyone who ever arrived in New York from somewhere else to be someone else. It registers as so deeply personal that it may take you a moment to realize that Mr. Beale, as Henry, is speaking in the third person, not the first.

And how he and his fellow actors speak has the resonance of a work by Homer or Virgil, in which specific acts and thoughts are always juxtaposed against a sense of eternity — of time past, present and to come. Here is how Henry concludes the beginning of that opening scene:

“He took a deep breath, picked up his suitcase and walking quickly, despite not knowing where to go, like so many others he stepped into the magical music box called America.” And by then, you have a sensory grasp of just what that world is.

The play is generally pro capitalism and pro Lehman Brothers.

The NYT review doesn’t mention any complicating moral factors in the Lehman’s triumphant arrival in the Southern cotton trade such as, oh, you know, slavery in Alabama in the 1840s.

Rich guys in the audience all loved it.

Here’s Jonathan Leaf’s review in The New Criterion.

Tickets are all sold out but they were in the $500 range.

 
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  1. Lehman descendants, from your link. To these look like health people?

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Daniel H

    This sort of post is just mean and hateful, as well as dumb since there's no subtext or thought to it other than ridiculing people for their physical appearance. I wish Steve didn't let posts like this go through.

    Replies: @Daniel H

    , @Ed
    @Daniel H

    Healthy enough to have a kid. I think Steve posted a story last year about some elite WASP family where the three sons are all gay. No kids in the offing there.

    , @Desiderius
    @Daniel H

    Yes.

  2. Really rubbing it in, aren’t they.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Daniel H


    Really rubbing it in, aren’t they.
     
    How so?
  3. More Lehman descendants. Physiognomy reveals truths.

    • Replies: @trelane
    @Daniel H

    The guy on the far left has MFA issues as clear as the ears on my head and just as impossible to ignore.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Daniel H

    Isn’t the guy on the far left the guy who played Elliott Schwartz in Breaking Bad? You know, guy who was Walter White’s college buddy who screwed him out of his share of the business he co-founded, ending up rich and married to Walt’s ex-girlfriend while Walt ended up as a lowly high school teacher.

  4. The FT gave it a good review when it opened in London last year.

  5. … Henry is radiant with astonishment, trepidation and a sense of infinite possibilities. His name has already been changed (from Heyum) …

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @the one they call Desanex

    Americans are boring dullards.
    Only foreigners who come here from other places are radiant and astonished and stuff. Jews are double radiant,but others can be radiant and astonished too. Like Somalians confronting the limitless horizon of the flush toilet. They are astonished by the shits magical disappearance.
    They sense the infinite possibilities of the door knob.

  6. I suppose it’s only a matter of time.

    From the people who brought you “Death of KlingFilm”

    GOLDMAN SACHS:THE OPERA

  7. If it’s not a musical, I think I’ll pass.

  8. Was Henry Lehman played by a black?

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    @James Bowery

    "Was Henry Lehman played by a black?"

    Retro-negrofication is only for the goyim- woke from the dead.

  9. This did well in the UK although it’s Broadway run only lasted for a month due to a poor review by the NYT.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_(play)

  10. I just see missed opportunities. It seems to me this story is more compelling with a more diverse cast, this is American, after all.

  11. Mentioning slavery would bring up all those nasty books by Minister Farrakhan.

  12. “He took a deep breath, picked up his suitcase and walking quickly, despite not knowing where to go, like so many others he stepped into the magical music box called America.”

    Yuk.

  13. Sam Mendes ain’t no fool. To put it excruciatingly kindly, no one ever went broke practicing the kind of hagiography on display here.

    Sorry I don’t know the Hebrew word for “hagiography”– or even the Yiddish. But I’m sure someone here can help with that.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @M. Hartley


    Sorry I don’t know the Hebrew word for “hagiography”– or even the Yiddish. But I’m sure someone here can help with that.
     
    Probably the same word as used for "history".

    Replies: @FPD72

    , @Desiderius
    @M. Hartley

    As Barnum said, there’s a sucker born every minute, but it turned out that the economy needed a higher rate so the Jews decided to start producing their fair share too.

  14. This has been done before — write an insider-ish play about Wall Street, open it off-Broadway or out-of-town, and let the word spread as the Wall Street crowd demands to see it because, hey, it’s about them.

    “Other People’s Money” did the same thing back in the day, opening at the Minetta Lane Theater down in the Village.

    They made that one into a film:

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Justice Duvall

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-01-13-ca-524-story.html


    The film version of “Other People’s Money,” which will be the director’s 26th feature, is also notable for addressing, or rather sidestepping, another, more controversial, issue–the charges of anti-Semitism that greeted Sterner’s play during its initial New York run. The playwright’s protagonist, a Jewish corporate takeover artist, was named Larry Garfinkle, not Garfield. As played by the New York stage actor Kevin Conway in the Off-Broadway production, the portrayal of Garfinkle raised questions among some critics and audiences who found Conway’s performance to be larger-than-life–uncomfortably so. Some reviewers called Conway’s Garfinkle a Wall Street Jackie Mason–a performance more akin to stand-up comedy than straight theater, one that emphasized the character’s ethnicity and loaded Sterner’s play with potentially anti-Semitic “Merchant of Venice” overtones.

    Critic Mel Gussow wrote in his review of the play in the New York Times: “One might legitimately ask whether it is necessary for the author to have a character that reinforces an ethnic stereotype.”

    While Conway disputed any charges of anti-Semitism in his performance with an interview with the New York Times, it nonetheless was a portrayal that surprised even the play’s author, who had originally turned down the actor as not right for the role during an earlier regional theater run.

    “The character that I had in my head was not the character that Kevin had in his head,” acknowledged Sterner, who added a cautionary postscript to the play’s published text: “The character of Garfinkle can be played in many ways. The one way he should not be played is overly, coarsely, ‘ethnic.’ ”

    “I wrote that note because I was afraid that what Kevin had originated other actors would try to copy,” said Sterner in an interview with the New York Times. “I did not want the play to become controversial about what it is not about. It’s not about Garfinkle’s being Jewish, it’s about his doing good or not.”

    Although the film version of “Other People’s Money” originally retained the name of Garfinkle for the protagonist–and indeed the cast and crew’s scripts carried the printed word “Garfinkle” crossed out with “Garfield” penciled in–Jewison is quick to dismiss any suggestion of capitulation.

    “Who changed the name? I changed it,” says the director, who had met with the Off-Broadway actor after the play first opened. “I said ‘You have to be careful, man, not to overdo it.’ It’s not important that Larry Garfinkle is Jewish. Boone Pickens isn’t Jewish. Jimmy Goldsmith is, as are nine out of the 12 top corporate raiders in America, but there are three others that aren’t. What does it matter, anyway? This isn’t about religion.”

    Adds DeVito: “Garfinkle? Garfield? John Garfield is my favorite actor.”

    When pressed for further explanation, DeVito shrugs, “I’m obviously not Jewish, but my wife (actress Rhea Perlman) is and so I guess my kids are Jewish. Look, we’re not laying into any big ethnic thing here. You don’t look at me and think Norwegian. I’m Italian. But to play this guy as a Jewish arbitrager, don’t you think that would be like playing a gangster movie with only Italians? It’s kind of an ethnic slur.”
     
  15. “… to its extinction in 2008 that helped set off the Great Financial Crash ….”

    Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine. The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm’s longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others.

    A remake of Fiddler on the Roof, with Tevye being rewritten as Hank Paulson, seems a bit too off the mark and a bit unsympathetic: How about a remake of Annie, but with Daddy Warbucks rewritten as Hank Paulson so the goyim can cheer him on?

    • Replies: @bomag
    @The Alarmist


    The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm’s longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others
     
    Indeed.

    I was taught that gov't is a neutral arbiter. Somewhere along the way it became a blatant racket on behalf of ethnic and business groups. Maybe it has always been that way in some fashion, but it seems that something has been lost.
    , @Father O'Hara
    @The Alarmist

    How about Streetcar Named Desire,with Paulson as Blanche Dubois.
    " I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."

    , @anon
    @The Alarmist

    >Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine.

    Huh? Lehman's bankruptcy was central in the climax. Bear Stearns, six months prior, seems more analogous to canary in coalmine.

  16. It’s nice to know the fantastically wealthy decadent elite are enjoying such a celebration of American decline. I mean Lehman was an immigrant and Trump hates them and Lehman was pro-investment banker too! Hell he invented it. That’s grand.

  17. It is directed by Sam Mendes, director of American Beauty with Kevin Spacey, and stars three British actors, including Simon Russell Beale……

    The World according to Broadway.

    The founding fathers of The United States of America? Black

    The founding fathers of Lehman Brothers? British

    Got it.

  18. Shermy [AKA "Zippity Dooo"] says:

    The Lehman’s actually OWNED slaves!

    What puzzles me about the play, and the NYT is, why not at least mention something as morally transgressive as profiting off the slave trade? It’s not like Lehman’s evil deeds aren’t easily verifiable from a casual search on the internet. Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of “the tricky Jew,” so why do they do it?

    Hayem Lehman owning a black slave girl, is historically important.

    What was his personal relationship with his slaves? Did it go so far as to be… Jeffersonian? Were there any little mulatto Lehman’s running about in the South back in the day? Maybe an enterprising reporter could dig deeper to find out for us. Perhaps a Lehman Bros play in the future can be mulatto-infused, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, historically accurate.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Shermy

    Zippity, They were offering long term employment, with benefits, to recently arrive immigrants who also often had their names changed. Google: Kunta Kinte for an example

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    , @reiner Tor
    @Shermy


    Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of “the tricky Jew,” so why do they do it?
     
    Because most people won't search Google to find out anything about these issues. So by omitting it from their articles, they are omitting it from the minds of their readers.
  19. “the resonance of Homer or Virgil!’ Wow! No fooling? Is the NYT’s new motto ‘all the hyperbole that fits?’

  20. I’ll just have to wait until it comes out in DVD to the library, hopefully in a series starring Matt Damon, The Lehman Identity, The Lehman Supremacy, and The Lehman Ultimatum. (That last one involves the 2 Lehman brothers having it out with the House Appropriations Committee. It’s not as dull as it sounds, as there’s still shooting, riding motorcycles down stairways, and that stringy-haired Euro chick.)

    Peak Stupidity on the apprehending of Jason Bourne: Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3.

  21. OT: Trump administration doubles H2-B visas:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-administration-nearly-doubles-H-2B-guest-13746943.php

    The Winning! Does it ever stop?

    • Replies: @216
    @Mr. Anon

    Recall that Trump imported visa workers into Mar-a-Lago, even during worse economic conditions than the present, on the excuse that somehow they couldn't find people to work a facility that only caters to rich people.

    What's going on is the traditional GOP business preference for lower labor costs, as it has been GOP congressmen lobbying the admin for more visas. Its the same logic used against minimum wage increases (though that is an artificial price floor, rather than either a demand increase or supply reduction)

    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It's as legally close to "helot" as the law provides.

    What almost no one is going to admit is that employers are largely giving up on drawing additional (read: underclass Black) workers off of the sidelines. The secular decline in teenagers working is also apparent.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Daniel H
    @Mr. Anon

    Yep. Cuckin' out. At this point I turn my back on President Trump, and I encourage others to do so too. Don't get sucked into that mug's game of "but he's still better than the alternative....". Many of us have been playing that for 40 years - Ford, Reagan, Bushes, Dole, Romney - and losing all the while. Walk away, and support someone who won't yield, and if in the meanwhile the whole damned edifice comes down, so be it. Easier to rebuild. What collapses will be the rot anyway. Let nature takes it's course.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Mr. Anon

    I'm with HER now - IMPEACH!

  22. Ed says:

    The German and Sephardic Jews that settled in the USA in the 19th century and before were quite conservative at the time. I really can’t think of a concerted abolitionist movement among US Jews at the time. At least nothing approaching the zealotry that gripped many Northern Protestants. I could be mistaken but if one polled Jews during the onset of the civil war I think a slight majority would have supported the Confederacy.

    Fast forward 150 years and the vast majority of Jews are extremely liberal.

    At any rate the great Jewish families of the time , including the owners of the NYT, had links to slavery, through trade and ownership.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Ed

    You don’t need to fast forward 150 years to find pro-black Jews. They helped found the NAACP in 1910.

  23. @M. Hartley
    Sam Mendes ain't no fool. To put it excruciatingly kindly, no one ever went broke practicing the kind of hagiography on display here.

    Sorry I don't know the Hebrew word for "hagiography"-- or even the Yiddish. But I'm sure someone here can help with that.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Desiderius

    Sorry I don’t know the Hebrew word for “hagiography”– or even the Yiddish. But I’m sure someone here can help with that.

    Probably the same word as used for “history”.

    • Replies: @FPD72
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s a combination of the Hebrew words for “holy” (qedosh) and “writing” (kethive).

  24. “He took a deep breath, picked up his suitcase and walking quickly, despite not knowing where to go, like so many others he stepped into the magical music box called America.”

    I’m keeping a list of all the things that America supposedly is.

    An idea.

    A hope.

    A promise.

    A shining city on a hill.

    And now……….a magical music box.

    • LOL: vinteuil
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Mr. Anon

    Eventually, outdoor toilet.
    " He picked up his suitcase and walked quickly into the great outdoor toilet that is America."

    Replies: @Kaganovitch

  25. @Shermy
    The Lehman’s actually OWNED slaves!

    What puzzles me about the play, and the NYT is, why not at least mention something as morally transgressive as profiting off the slave trade? It’s not like Lehman’s evil deeds aren’t easily verifiable from a casual search on the internet. Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of "the tricky Jew," so why do they do it?

    Hayem Lehman owning a black slave girl, is historically important.

    What was his personal relationship with his slaves? Did it go so far as to be... Jeffersonian? Were there any little mulatto Lehman’s running about in the South back in the day? Maybe an enterprising reporter could dig deeper to find out for us. Perhaps a Lehman Bros play in the future can be mulatto-infused, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, historically accurate.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    Zippity, They were offering long term employment, with benefits, to recently arrive immigrants who also often had their names changed. Google: Kunta Kinte for an example

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Buffalo Joe


    Zippity, They were offering long term employment, with benefits, to recently arrive immigrants who also often had their names changed. Google: Kunta Kinte for an example.
     
    They had to. There was cotton and tobacco rotting in the fields.
  26. @Shermy
    The Lehman’s actually OWNED slaves!

    What puzzles me about the play, and the NYT is, why not at least mention something as morally transgressive as profiting off the slave trade? It’s not like Lehman’s evil deeds aren’t easily verifiable from a casual search on the internet. Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of "the tricky Jew," so why do they do it?

    Hayem Lehman owning a black slave girl, is historically important.

    What was his personal relationship with his slaves? Did it go so far as to be... Jeffersonian? Were there any little mulatto Lehman’s running about in the South back in the day? Maybe an enterprising reporter could dig deeper to find out for us. Perhaps a Lehman Bros play in the future can be mulatto-infused, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, historically accurate.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    It’s bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women – it’s unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation – these must have been the household staff. It’s not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There’s some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers – they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t. As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman’s sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect [owning slaves] of their life either way.
     
    If they had been gentiles, you can damn well be sure that it would have.

    Also - "that aspect of their life". Hah! Very nice. Not "their moral turpitude", or "their racist transgression" just "that aspect of their life".

    Slavery - it's a lifestyle!

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jack D


    Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence,
     
    No, this is more complicated. It seems this was - or could have been- the president's brother: https://www.amren.com/features/2012/12/did-jefferson-sleep-with-his-slave/
    https://www.amren.com/news/2009/06/rescuing_jeffer/
    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    It’s not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants.
     
    It's not at all surprising that a successful Jewish family owned slaves.

    There’s some evidence that slaves actually got treated better
     
    What is the evidence you are referring to?

    It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t.
     
    It's a surprising and unwelcome revelation to most Jews, given the hagiography they promote among themselves and to others.
    , @reiner Tor
    @Jack D

    Certainly the idea that the Lehmans raped their household slaves is not very interesting. (Even if they slept with those girls, it wasn't necessarily rape: I have heard of hypergamy and the idea that a slave girl might actually be receptive to the advances of her master, and that she might actually like it.)


    It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t. As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way.
     
    It's interesting that they left out that angle. They keep talking about the plight of blacks in the South (or anywhere else), but then here we have a play dealing with that historical era and place, and nary a word comes up.

    Replies: @Jack D

  27. Not only do I not understand these people, it’s pretty clear they hate us. Tough to reconcile us staying together.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @TWS


    Not only do I not understand these people, it’s pretty clear they hate us.
     
    What do you mean? What information caused you to make this observation?
  28. Name change at immigration check through was commom. Witness the clothing company in the Bronx of Genaro, Genaro and Ting. The third brother in line, when asked his name, nodded to his brother and said “Sam Ting as his.”

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Buffalo Joe

    Huh? Dude, I believe you mangled a fairly good joke:
    Man walks down Manhattan street,sees a sign saying,"Marvin Greenbergs Chinese Laundry."
    Curious he enters and asks to meet Mr. Greenberg. A small Chinese man comes out to greet him.
    "Youre Marvin Greenberg? How?"
    "I in line at immeegration. Man ask fellow in front of me what name. He say Marvin Greenberg. He then ask my name. I tell him. Sam Ting..."

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  29. @Ed
    The German and Sephardic Jews that settled in the USA in the 19th century and before were quite conservative at the time. I really can’t think of a concerted abolitionist movement among US Jews at the time. At least nothing approaching the zealotry that gripped many Northern Protestants. I could be mistaken but if one polled Jews during the onset of the civil war I think a slight majority would have supported the Confederacy.

    Fast forward 150 years and the vast majority of Jews are extremely liberal.

    At any rate the great Jewish families of the time , including the owners of the NYT, had links to slavery, through trade and ownership.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    You don’t need to fast forward 150 years to find pro-black Jews. They helped found the NAACP in 1910.

  30. It is interesting to notice the pandering to conservatives in Jonathan Leaf’s review. He knows who reads the New Criterion, and he portrays the message of the play as a challenge to the anti-capitalists of “academia.”

  31. It is directed by Sam Mendes, director of American Beauty with Kevin Spacey,…………..

    Ah, yes, American Beauty – another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!

    Unsurprisingly, the movie was written by a homosexual – the same guy who created the SJW vampire series True Blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Blood

    And to those who don’t think there is an underlying agenda to this kind of degenerate trash, get a load of this (from that same Wikipedia article):

    True Blood was the subject of a Sesame Street sketch parody titled “True Mud” (2010), featuring puppet versions of Sookie, Bill, Lafayette, Sam, Tara, and Sheriff Dearborn. In the skit, Muppet Sookie struggles to fulfill Muppet Bill’s pleas for a pint of “True Mud”, as the other characters speculate whether or not he is a “grouch”.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Mr. Anon


    Ah, yes, American Beauty – another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!
     
    Right. That's why I never watched it.

    Replies: @RationalExpressions

    , @ThreeCranes
    @Mr. Anon


    "about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal."
     
    Funny isn't it? How the focus of the Frankfurt School's critique of American life in the 1960's was the stultifying, "alienating" lifestyle that manufacturing imposed on the mind of the citizen in a technological state. Where did that go? I don't hear Jewish intellectuals taking that line at all these days. I guess when you become a lawyer, Wall Street titan or software wizard some of that revolution of the lumpenproles stuff becomes less compelling.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  32. @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect [owning slaves] of their life either way.

    If they had been gentiles, you can damn well be sure that it would have.

    Also – “that aspect of their life”. Hah! Very nice. Not “their moral turpitude”, or “their racist transgression” just “that aspect of their life”.

    Slavery – it’s a lifestyle!

    • Agree: RationalExpressions
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon


    Also – “that aspect of their life”. Hah! Very nice. Not “their moral turpitude”, or “their racist transgression” just “that aspect of their life”.
     
    What is the Torah's position on slavery?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

  33. OT: Check out the shirt worn by fighter Sheena Star at Bare Knuckle Fighting Championships in Biloxi, Mississippi last night.

  34. @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I’m convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I’d be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I’ve never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it’s pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it’s clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It’s a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I’m not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it — if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bill P


    if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery
     
    Which blame?

    https://ijr.com/no-one-was-talking-about-these-uncomfortable-muhammad-ali-quotes-about-race/


    “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

    — 1974 response when asked for his impression of Africa, after Ali returned to the United States from Zaire, where he fought George Foreman.
     

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Anonymous
    @Bill P


    I’d be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.
     
    It probably would have risks causing unrest among the servants, too, unless the woman was well cared for. But even then, it would mean that the white man would have been taking a woman away from black men. Not good for interracial relations on the farm or plantation.
    , @Anon
    @Bill P

    White Southern planters kept White mistresses. They also screwed their White maids.

    It was their young sons, who had no money for mistresses and no outlets for premarital sex, who screwed the black help.

    Typically, it wasn't rape. Black women have always been known as being extremely randy types, eager for a roll in the hay.

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Bill P

    The idea isn’t silly, and there’s plenty of DNA evidence it happened (why do you think the average black American is 20-30 percent European?)

    Some wives tolerated it, some probably complained but no doubt the husbands probably went behind their back. In French-influenced parts of the South they had the French attitude towards affairs/mistresses.

    Also before the 1850s the South was kinda wild...the least religious part of the country.

    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sam Coulton

  35. 216 says:
    @Mr. Anon
    OT: Trump administration doubles H2-B visas:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-administration-nearly-doubles-H-2B-guest-13746943.php

    The Winning! Does it ever stop?

    Replies: @216, @Daniel H, @Achmed E. Newman

    Recall that Trump imported visa workers into Mar-a-Lago, even during worse economic conditions than the present, on the excuse that somehow they couldn’t find people to work a facility that only caters to rich people.

    What’s going on is the traditional GOP business preference for lower labor costs, as it has been GOP congressmen lobbying the admin for more visas. Its the same logic used against minimum wage increases (though that is an artificial price floor, rather than either a demand increase or supply reduction)

    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It’s as legally close to “helot” as the law provides.

    What almost no one is going to admit is that employers are largely giving up on drawing additional (read: underclass Black) workers off of the sidelines. The secular decline in teenagers working is also apparent.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @216


    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It’s as legally close to “helot” as the law provides.
     
    Apparently, 80% of the H-2B visas to to people from Mexico or Central American A lot of them probably just overstay their visa, and disappear into the shadows.

    Replies: @216

  36. @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence,

    No, this is more complicated. It seems this was – or could have been- the president’s brother: https://www.amren.com/features/2012/12/did-jefferson-sleep-with-his-slave/
    https://www.amren.com/news/2009/06/rescuing_jeffer/

  37. @Mr. Anon
    OT: Trump administration doubles H2-B visas:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-administration-nearly-doubles-H-2B-guest-13746943.php

    The Winning! Does it ever stop?

    Replies: @216, @Daniel H, @Achmed E. Newman

    Yep. Cuckin’ out. At this point I turn my back on President Trump, and I encourage others to do so too. Don’t get sucked into that mug’s game of “but he’s still better than the alternative….”. Many of us have been playing that for 40 years – Ford, Reagan, Bushes, Dole, Romney – and losing all the while. Walk away, and support someone who won’t yield, and if in the meanwhile the whole damned edifice comes down, so be it. Easier to rebuild. What collapses will be the rot anyway. Let nature takes it’s course.

  38. @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren’t enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren’t enough of them.
     
    Jews had a disproportionate role in it.

    Replies: @Hunsdon

    , @Alden
    @Jack D

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south. The went to San Francisco before the civil
    War The Schulzbergers of the New York Timed were originally southerners. The wife was a founder of the Daughters of the Confederacy.

    In the 18th and first half of the 19th century there were more Jews in the south east than in the north. Bernard Baruch’s family owned thousands of acres of prime southern farmland and hundreds of slaves. The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews. Jewish American history didn’t start with the Ellis island communists crusaders and founders of NAACP.

    No reason to get so defensive. At least you are aware there’s been Jews in America since the earliest years, unlike so many Ellis Island communists

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Kaganovitch, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Bill P
    @Jack D

    There were a lot more than a couple thousand Jews in the states during the Civil War. More like 150,000.

    I'm not arguing that Jews bore any special responsibility for slavery, but they certainly didn't earn any special status as champions of black slaves at the time, either. Abolitionism was a fundamentally Christian movement, and that fact is seldom noted today.

    , @Father O'Hara
    @Jack D

    I understand that the big Enchilada jew,Judah Benjamin,was pure hell on his slaves and treated them in an abominable way,a way very few whites would.
    I may have the wrong jew.Anyone?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @OFWHAP
    @Jack D


    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.
     
    Sally was 1/4 black and was the half-sister of Thomas Jefferson's late wife.

    Replies: @Jack D

  39. @Buffalo Joe
    @Shermy

    Zippity, They were offering long term employment, with benefits, to recently arrive immigrants who also often had their names changed. Google: Kunta Kinte for an example

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Zippity, They were offering long term employment, with benefits, to recently arrive immigrants who also often had their names changed. Google: Kunta Kinte for an example.

    They had to. There was cotton and tobacco rotting in the fields.

    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
  40. @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery

    Which blame?

    https://ijr.com/no-one-was-talking-about-these-uncomfortable-muhammad-ali-quotes-about-race/

    “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

    — 1974 response when asked for his impression of Africa, after Ali returned to the United States from Zaire, where he fought George Foreman.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The movie “Soul Power” is instructive on that score. Way more than Ali came back saying that.

    https://youtu.be/8OprNgiOq-I

  41. @M. Hartley
    Sam Mendes ain't no fool. To put it excruciatingly kindly, no one ever went broke practicing the kind of hagiography on display here.

    Sorry I don't know the Hebrew word for "hagiography"-- or even the Yiddish. But I'm sure someone here can help with that.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Desiderius

    As Barnum said, there’s a sucker born every minute, but it turned out that the economy needed a higher rate so the Jews decided to start producing their fair share too.

  42. Somebody on a chan wrote a satire of “Alita: Battle Angel” (a fighting robot made to look like an approachable girl) as a SJBA —

    Anonymous
    04/07/19(Sun)15:29:46 No.112556691

    Yesterday an organic man told me he admired my hands. It took only a few seconds but this brief interaction crystallized the structural oppression that People of Machinery (PoM) face in every facet of our lives. An organic may ask what’s wrong with that, why not be happy that people praise our cybernetic bodies, but this only perpetuates the systematic devaluation of PoM reinforced by the unexamined organic privilege. If this young man had taken a moment to interrogate the thought process that led to him “just admiring my hands,” might he have desisted from this statement? Might he have reflected on the history of instrumentalization – the history of objectification, of colonization of the mechanical by the organic? Organic social structures have long charted the mechanical and the cybernetic as a colonizing force. Machines are described in manuals, blueprints, schematics, organic engineers creating these documents with the same zeal of 15th century cartographers, whose drawn interpretations of Earth’s geography opened the door to untold suffering by indigenous peoples. Every cybernetic body existed in the imagination before it existed in reality, and PoM are thus the indigenous people of the human noosphere, dwellers on the frontier of human imagination. But through institutionalized prejudice, outright violence and a withering storm of microggressions, microaggressions running the gamut from the awkward remark to the grope to the simple wide-eyed downward glance that PoM know every bit as intimately as their optimum lubrication schedule, we continue to suffer. “I was just admiring your hands.” Organics don’t “just” admire, they gape, they gawk, they exploit, they destroy, they deny maintenance, they grind into scrap and melt down. The unexamined words of an organic are never “just,” the presence of organic bodies encircling and limiting cybernetic bodies is injustice made manifest to the greatest degree of physical immediacy.

  43. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:

    Henry is radiant with astonishment, trepidation and a sense of infinite possibilities. His name has already been changed (from Heyum) by a New York customs official.

    I call BS. This is just more defamation of Americans by Jews. Apocryphal Jewish victimology. Random custom officials didn’t just unilaterally change the names of new arrivals. What a coincidence that this American customs official happened to choose a name common in German-speaking countries for this arrival from Germany!

    • Agree: Daniel H
  44. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren’t enough of them.

    Jews had a disproportionate role in it.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @Anonymous

    Jack D refuses to believe that Jews can punch above their weight, at anything.

  45. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    I’d be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    It probably would have risks causing unrest among the servants, too, unless the woman was well cared for. But even then, it would mean that the white man would have been taking a woman away from black men. Not good for interracial relations on the farm or plantation.

  46. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    It’s not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants.

    It’s not at all surprising that a successful Jewish family owned slaves.

    There’s some evidence that slaves actually got treated better

    What is the evidence you are referring to?

    It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t.

    It’s a surprising and unwelcome revelation to most Jews, given the hagiography they promote among themselves and to others.

  47. @The Alarmist

    "... to its extinction in 2008 that helped set off the Great Financial Crash ...."
     
    Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine. The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm's longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others.

    A remake of Fiddler on the Roof, with Tevye being rewritten as Hank Paulson, seems a bit too off the mark and a bit unsympathetic: How about a remake of Annie, but with Daddy Warbucks rewritten as Hank Paulson so the goyim can cheer him on?

    Replies: @bomag, @Father O'Hara, @anon

    The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm’s longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others

    Indeed.

    I was taught that gov’t is a neutral arbiter. Somewhere along the way it became a blatant racket on behalf of ethnic and business groups. Maybe it has always been that way in some fashion, but it seems that something has been lost.

  48. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H
    Really rubbing it in, aren't they.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Really rubbing it in, aren’t they.

    How so?

  49. @Mr. Anon
    OT: Trump administration doubles H2-B visas:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-administration-nearly-doubles-H-2B-guest-13746943.php

    The Winning! Does it ever stop?

    Replies: @216, @Daniel H, @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m with HER now – IMPEACH!

  50. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    Logic does not apply

    Who ran the missippi plantations that were known for treating Black slaves badly

    Who ran slave ship companies

    Who ran slave plantations in latin America

    These questions need to be answered

    P.s. I don’t know the answer..but I remember reading about a few deep south jewish plantation owners and in latin America

  51. The Lehman Bros finance company stock brokers arrived in New Orleans in 1801. They were Germans fleeing the French invasions of the German states. They soon became the 2nd largest ave brokers in the south.

    In 1851 they relocated to San Francisco for the Gold Rush and later to New York.

    That’s the finance company that flourigshec more than 100 years and went bust during the mortgage meltdow

    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Alden

    From Wikipedia on Lehman Brothers:

    In 1844, 23-year-old Henry Lehman,[13] the son of a Jewish cattle merchant, immigrated to the United States from Rimpar, Bavaria.[14] He settled in Montgomery, Alabama,[13] where he opened a dry-goods store, "H. Lehman".[15] In 1847, following the arrival of his brother Emanuel Lehman, the firm became "H. Lehman and Bro."[16] With the arrival of their youngest brother, Mayer Lehman, in 1850, the firm changed its name again and "Lehman Brothers" was founded.[15][17]

    , @Anonymous
    @Alden


    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company
     
    What are you getting at?
    , @Hibernian
    @Alden

    You have Lazard Freres confused with Lehman Brothers.

  52. OT for anybody that’s interested and has money :

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @donut

    I am pleased that you are a fan of Gun Jesus.

  53. @Daniel H
    Lehman descendants, from your link. To these look like health people?

    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i2b3lxtbKWUY/v3/800x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @Ed, @Desiderius

    This sort of post is just mean and hateful, as well as dumb since there’s no subtext or thought to it other than ridiculing people for their physical appearance. I wish Steve didn’t let posts like this go through.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    @Sam Malone

    Yeah, you're right. I'm ashamed.

  54. @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south. The went to San Francisco before the civil
    War The Schulzbergers of the New York Timed were originally southerners. The wife was a founder of the Daughters of the Confederacy.

    In the 18th and first half of the 19th century there were more Jews in the south east than in the north. Bernard Baruch’s family owned thousands of acres of prime southern farmland and hundreds of slaves. The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews. Jewish American history didn’t start with the Ellis island communists crusaders and founders of NAACP.

    No reason to get so defensive. At least you are aware there’s been Jews in America since the earliest years, unlike so many Ellis Island communists

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Alden


    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south.
     
    Do you have a book to recommend or other references to learn about this history?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Kaganovitch, @Ed

    , @Kaganovitch
    @Alden

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds.

    This is sheer fantasy. The population of Savannah in 1860 , on the eve of the Civil War was 22,000 and change per
    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/savannah-population/

    The Jewish population of Savannah in 1860 was approx. 345 " An 1850s listing of pew assignments in Mickve Israel bears the names of 45 male members, as many as half of which belonged to first-generation German arrivals. The Jewish community doubled in size during the 1850s, reaching approximately 345 by 1860." Per
    https://www.isjl.org/georgia-savannah-encyclopedia.html.

    So off by a factor of 20 or so.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Alden


    The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews.
     
    The "Bible thumpers" were in the hills, where there were few if any Jews. That whole movement grew from the Great Awakening, which wasn't a Southern thing.

    The planters used the OT to justify their cult of multiracialism and diversity. Otherwise, they weren't especially religious compared to others. Certainly not to the Bible-thumping English abolitionists.
  55. In Texas a tranny associated with a library children’s event, Drag Queen Story Hour, has been outed as a registered sex offender and pedophile. This is not to be confused with the last time this happened, about a week ago.
    If only we have been given some kind of indication …

    https://www.infowars.com/bombshell-another-drag-queen-story-hour-member-exposed-as-pedophile-report-says/

    First pedophile:
    https://abc13.com/drag-queen-storytime-reader-once-charged-with-assault/5197176/

  56. Our only hope is white people realizing that all these stupid career-ending sudden death rules only apply to them.

    https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/whitefish-bay-school-district-students-asking-for-n-word-pass

    “If your child experiences this type of behavior while at school, please contact your school principal or complete the following form”

    https://docs.google.com/a/wfbschools.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeFKQ9Of0PetdWtcBtWL2BSBJR053LZQLIU2LOAGuaqQ6nkng/viewform?c=0&w=1

  57. @the one they call Desanex

    ... Henry is radiant with astonishment, trepidation and a sense of infinite possibilities. His name has already been changed (from Heyum) ...
     
    https://i.imgur.com/H45YFyg.jpg

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    Americans are boring dullards.
    Only foreigners who come here from other places are radiant and astonished and stuff. Jews are double radiant,but others can be radiant and astonished too. Like Somalians confronting the limitless horizon of the flush toilet. They are astonished by the shits magical disappearance.
    They sense the infinite possibilities of the door knob.

  58. @The Alarmist

    "... to its extinction in 2008 that helped set off the Great Financial Crash ...."
     
    Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine. The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm's longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others.

    A remake of Fiddler on the Roof, with Tevye being rewritten as Hank Paulson, seems a bit too off the mark and a bit unsympathetic: How about a remake of Annie, but with Daddy Warbucks rewritten as Hank Paulson so the goyim can cheer him on?

    Replies: @bomag, @Father O'Hara, @anon

    How about Streetcar Named Desire,with Paulson as Blanche Dubois.
    ” I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.”

  59. @Mr. Anon

    “He took a deep breath, picked up his suitcase and walking quickly, despite not knowing where to go, like so many others he stepped into the magical music box called America."
     
    I'm keeping a list of all the things that America supposedly is.

    An idea.

    A hope.

    A promise.

    A shining city on a hill.

    And now..........a magical music box.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    Eventually, outdoor toilet.
    ” He picked up his suitcase and walked quickly into the great outdoor toilet that is America.”

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
    @Father O'Hara

    We need a COL button

  60. @Justice Duvall
    This has been done before -- write an insider-ish play about Wall Street, open it off-Broadway or out-of-town, and let the word spread as the Wall Street crowd demands to see it because, hey, it's about them.

    "Other People's Money" did the same thing back in the day, opening at the Minetta Lane Theater down in the Village.

    They made that one into a film:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOTlqs_j4IE

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-01-13-ca-524-story.html

    The film version of “Other People’s Money,” which will be the director’s 26th feature, is also notable for addressing, or rather sidestepping, another, more controversial, issue–the charges of anti-Semitism that greeted Sterner’s play during its initial New York run. The playwright’s protagonist, a Jewish corporate takeover artist, was named Larry Garfinkle, not Garfield. As played by the New York stage actor Kevin Conway in the Off-Broadway production, the portrayal of Garfinkle raised questions among some critics and audiences who found Conway’s performance to be larger-than-life–uncomfortably so. Some reviewers called Conway’s Garfinkle a Wall Street Jackie Mason–a performance more akin to stand-up comedy than straight theater, one that emphasized the character’s ethnicity and loaded Sterner’s play with potentially anti-Semitic “Merchant of Venice” overtones.

    Critic Mel Gussow wrote in his review of the play in the New York Times: “One might legitimately ask whether it is necessary for the author to have a character that reinforces an ethnic stereotype.”

    While Conway disputed any charges of anti-Semitism in his performance with an interview with the New York Times, it nonetheless was a portrayal that surprised even the play’s author, who had originally turned down the actor as not right for the role during an earlier regional theater run.

    “The character that I had in my head was not the character that Kevin had in his head,” acknowledged Sterner, who added a cautionary postscript to the play’s published text: “The character of Garfinkle can be played in many ways. The one way he should not be played is overly, coarsely, ‘ethnic.’ ”

    “I wrote that note because I was afraid that what Kevin had originated other actors would try to copy,” said Sterner in an interview with the New York Times. “I did not want the play to become controversial about what it is not about. It’s not about Garfinkle’s being Jewish, it’s about his doing good or not.”

    Although the film version of “Other People’s Money” originally retained the name of Garfinkle for the protagonist–and indeed the cast and crew’s scripts carried the printed word “Garfinkle” crossed out with “Garfield” penciled in–Jewison is quick to dismiss any suggestion of capitulation.

    “Who changed the name? I changed it,” says the director, who had met with the Off-Broadway actor after the play first opened. “I said ‘You have to be careful, man, not to overdo it.’ It’s not important that Larry Garfinkle is Jewish. Boone Pickens isn’t Jewish. Jimmy Goldsmith is, as are nine out of the 12 top corporate raiders in America, but there are three others that aren’t. What does it matter, anyway? This isn’t about religion.”

    Adds DeVito: “Garfinkle? Garfield? John Garfield is my favorite actor.”

    When pressed for further explanation, DeVito shrugs, “I’m obviously not Jewish, but my wife (actress Rhea Perlman) is and so I guess my kids are Jewish. Look, we’re not laying into any big ethnic thing here. You don’t look at me and think Norwegian. I’m Italian. But to play this guy as a Jewish arbitrager, don’t you think that would be like playing a gangster movie with only Italians? It’s kind of an ethnic slur.”

  61. DHS Secretary Nielsen is out. Trump and Miller are overhauling DHS in response to the migrant crisis.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @IHTG

    Stephen Miller is in charge:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1115020825273470977

  62. @IHTG
    DHS Secretary Nielsen is out. Trump and Miller are overhauling DHS in response to the migrant crisis.

    Replies: @IHTG

    Stephen Miller is in charge:

  63. @Daniel H
    More Lehman descendants. Physiognomy reveals truths.

    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/irr1_5VF5yMM/v1/800x-1.jpg

    Replies: @trelane, @Hapalong Cassidy

    The guy on the far left has MFA issues as clear as the ears on my head and just as impossible to ignore.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @trelane

    What are MFA issues?

    Replies: @trelane

  64. Anon[232] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    White Southern planters kept White mistresses. They also screwed their White maids.

    It was their young sons, who had no money for mistresses and no outlets for premarital sex, who screwed the black help.

    Typically, it wasn’t rape. Black women have always been known as being extremely randy types, eager for a roll in the hay.

  65. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @trelane
    @Daniel H

    The guy on the far left has MFA issues as clear as the ears on my head and just as impossible to ignore.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    What are MFA issues?

    • Replies: @trelane
    @Anonymous

    minor facial anomalies

  66. OT: Dem staffer who doxxed 5 Republicans during the Kavanaugh hearings pleaded guilty recently. Nice to see that there is some justice left in this country.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/ex-democrat-staffer-pleads-guilty-to-doxxing-republican-senators_2869147.html

  67. @216
    @Mr. Anon

    Recall that Trump imported visa workers into Mar-a-Lago, even during worse economic conditions than the present, on the excuse that somehow they couldn't find people to work a facility that only caters to rich people.

    What's going on is the traditional GOP business preference for lower labor costs, as it has been GOP congressmen lobbying the admin for more visas. Its the same logic used against minimum wage increases (though that is an artificial price floor, rather than either a demand increase or supply reduction)

    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It's as legally close to "helot" as the law provides.

    What almost no one is going to admit is that employers are largely giving up on drawing additional (read: underclass Black) workers off of the sidelines. The secular decline in teenagers working is also apparent.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It’s as legally close to “helot” as the law provides.

    Apparently, 80% of the H-2B visas to to people from Mexico or Central American A lot of them probably just overstay their visa, and disappear into the shadows.

    • Replies: @216
    @Mr. Anon

    I don't know the statistics on that, but I recall that the normal practice of H-2B was to have the same workers return every year, which was called the "returning worker exemption" to the H-2B cap. This masked the size of the visa holding population. If you have a guarantee to return next year, there is a strong incentive to follow the visa policy.


    What is happening now with "asylum" is that a case takes several years to work its way through the immigration "judges", and they are handed a "notice to appear" along with an EAD (Employment Authorization Document) or a "permiso".

    That "permiso" creates facts on the ground, but in some senses granting these is better than having illegals because they can sue employers.

    My guess is that most visa overstayers are granted a B Visa for travel, and then just never leave.

  68. @Anonymous
    @trelane

    What are MFA issues?

    Replies: @trelane

    minor facial anomalies

  69. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bill P


    if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery
     
    Which blame?

    https://ijr.com/no-one-was-talking-about-these-uncomfortable-muhammad-ali-quotes-about-race/


    “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

    — 1974 response when asked for his impression of Africa, after Ali returned to the United States from Zaire, where he fought George Foreman.
     

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The movie “Soul Power” is instructive on that score. Way more than Ali came back saying that.

  70. @Mr. Anon

    It is directed by Sam Mendes, director of American Beauty with Kevin Spacey,..............
     
    Ah, yes, American Beauty - another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!

    Unsurprisingly, the movie was written by a homosexual - the same guy who created the SJW vampire series True Blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Blood

    And to those who don't think there is an underlying agenda to this kind of degenerate trash, get a load of this (from that same Wikipedia article):


    True Blood was the subject of a Sesame Street sketch parody titled "True Mud" (2010), featuring puppet versions of Sookie, Bill, Lafayette, Sam, Tara, and Sheriff Dearborn. In the skit, Muppet Sookie struggles to fulfill Muppet Bill's pleas for a pint of "True Mud", as the other characters speculate whether or not he is a "grouch".
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @ThreeCranes

    Ah, yes, American Beauty – another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!

    Right. That’s why I never watched it.

    • Replies: @RationalExpressions
    @Jim Don Bob

    That and hearing it used the anti-conservative trope of the right wing bigoted homophobes turning out to be homosexuals (never saw that coming!) kept me away too.

  71. @Bill P
    @Jack D

    The idea that white patriarch slave masters were screwing female slaves on a regular basis is kind of silly. What I'm convinced was really going on was junior getting it on with the slave girls, and it was fully consensual, as it usually is between lustful youths.

    I'd be highly surprised if white southern wives would tolerate their husbands having affairs with the help.

    As for differences between Christians and Jews in treatment of slaves, as far as I know the antebellum American South was the one place in the Western world where Jews were legal, social and political equals with white Christians (I've never seen or heard of an example of serious antebellum Southern anti-Semitism), so they probably treated their slaves pretty much the same as their Christian neighbors.

    Incidentally, it's pretty annoying to me when Jews bash the South and pretend that they had nothing to do with it when it's clear (and documented) that most American Jews supported the Confederacy and slavery before the Civil War. It's a pretty shameless example of historical amnesia. I'm not going to single out Jews for being part of that society (some of my ancestors were Southern slave owners), but be honest about it -- if contemporary white Christians should bear any blame for black slavery so should Jews.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @Anon, @S. Anonyia

    The idea isn’t silly, and there’s plenty of DNA evidence it happened (why do you think the average black American is 20-30 percent European?)

    Some wives tolerated it, some probably complained but no doubt the husbands probably went behind their back. In French-influenced parts of the South they had the French attitude towards affairs/mistresses.

    Also before the 1850s the South was kinda wild…the least religious part of the country.

    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @S. Anonyia


    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.
     
    Female hypergamy is a sufficient explanation.
    , @Sam Coulton
    @S. Anonyia

    You can't have consensual sex between a slave and a non-slave, for the same reason you can't between a child and an adult or between a prison warden and an inmate. Absence of force isn't the same thing as consent.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Bill P, @reiner Tor

  72. According to the book Statesmen of the Lost Cause, a goodly percentage of the large plantation owners were transplants from the North. Some of the biggest plantations were founded during the decades immediately preceding the Civil War. They were located in the then frontier “western” states of Mississippi and Louisiana.

    The new owners, eager to cash in on the cotton boon, bought huge tracts of wilderness forest cheaply. Too impatient to actually clear and till the forest, they simply burnt the trees as they stood. The cotton was then planted between the still standing trees, which, now stripped bare of foliage, allowed ample sunlight to penetrate to the understory. After three to five years of intensive cotton cultivation, the soil was depleted and the owner simply pulled up stakes and moved further west.

    These guys were exploitive in the worst sense. They felt no sense of proprietorship or kinship with the soil. They wanted to get rich fast. This attitude brought them into conflict with the old gentry of the Carolinas and Virginia. This schism persisted right up to the outbreak of the Civil War, with the–as I said above–often Northern educated or northern transplanted men of the western wilderness supporting plans for a radical break with the busy-body North while the coastal Old Southern tobacco and indigo planters counseled a more cautious and diplomatic course.

    On numerous points, this is an inversion of the popularly accepted history.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ThreeCranes


    These guys were exploitive in the worst sense. They felt no sense of proprietorship or kinship with the soil. They wanted to get rich fast. This attitude brought them into conflict with the old gentry of the Carolinas and Virginia.
     
    Can you recommend some books about this?

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

  73. @Alden
    The Lehman Bros finance company stock brokers arrived in New Orleans in 1801. They were Germans fleeing the French invasions of the German states. They soon became the 2nd largest ave brokers in the south.

    In 1851 they relocated to San Francisco for the Gold Rush and later to New York.

    That’s the finance company that flourigshec more than 100 years and went bust during the mortgage meltdow

    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company

    Replies: @Flip, @Anonymous, @Hibernian

    From Wikipedia on Lehman Brothers:

    In 1844, 23-year-old Henry Lehman,[13] the son of a Jewish cattle merchant, immigrated to the United States from Rimpar, Bavaria.[14] He settled in Montgomery, Alabama,[13] where he opened a dry-goods store, “H. Lehman”.[15] In 1847, following the arrival of his brother Emanuel Lehman, the firm became “H. Lehman and Bro.”[16] With the arrival of their youngest brother, Mayer Lehman, in 1850, the firm changed its name again and “Lehman Brothers” was founded.[15][17]

  74. @Mr. Anon

    It is directed by Sam Mendes, director of American Beauty with Kevin Spacey,..............
     
    Ah, yes, American Beauty - another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!

    Unsurprisingly, the movie was written by a homosexual - the same guy who created the SJW vampire series True Blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Blood

    And to those who don't think there is an underlying agenda to this kind of degenerate trash, get a load of this (from that same Wikipedia article):


    True Blood was the subject of a Sesame Street sketch parody titled "True Mud" (2010), featuring puppet versions of Sookie, Bill, Lafayette, Sam, Tara, and Sheriff Dearborn. In the skit, Muppet Sookie struggles to fulfill Muppet Bill's pleas for a pint of "True Mud", as the other characters speculate whether or not he is a "grouch".
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @ThreeCranes

    “about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal.”

    Funny isn’t it? How the focus of the Frankfurt School’s critique of American life in the 1960’s was the stultifying, “alienating” lifestyle that manufacturing imposed on the mind of the citizen in a technological state. Where did that go? I don’t hear Jewish intellectuals taking that line at all these days. I guess when you become a lawyer, Wall Street titan or software wizard some of that revolution of the lumpenproles stuff becomes less compelling.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @ThreeCranes

    Yes, apparently liberal urban BOBOs are not stultified, despite the fact that they lead materialist, comfortable - one might even say "privileged" - lives. Neither are they conformists, despite all mostly believing the same things.

  75. @Mr. Anon
    @M. Hartley


    Sorry I don’t know the Hebrew word for “hagiography”– or even the Yiddish. But I’m sure someone here can help with that.
     
    Probably the same word as used for "history".

    Replies: @FPD72

    It’s a combination of the Hebrew words for “holy” (qedosh) and “writing” (kethive).

  76. @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren’t enough of them.
     
    Jews had a disproportionate role in it.

    Replies: @Hunsdon

    Jack D refuses to believe that Jews can punch above their weight, at anything.

  77. @Mr. Anon
    @216


    From a partisan standpoint, H-2B is superior to H-1B because the latter coverts to a green card, the former does not. It’s as legally close to “helot” as the law provides.
     
    Apparently, 80% of the H-2B visas to to people from Mexico or Central American A lot of them probably just overstay their visa, and disappear into the shadows.

    Replies: @216

    I don’t know the statistics on that, but I recall that the normal practice of H-2B was to have the same workers return every year, which was called the “returning worker exemption” to the H-2B cap. This masked the size of the visa holding population. If you have a guarantee to return next year, there is a strong incentive to follow the visa policy.

    What is happening now with “asylum” is that a case takes several years to work its way through the immigration “judges”, and they are handed a “notice to appear” along with an EAD (Employment Authorization Document) or a “permiso”.

    That “permiso” creates facts on the ground, but in some senses granting these is better than having illegals because they can sue employers.

    My guess is that most visa overstayers are granted a B Visa for travel, and then just never leave.

  78. @donut
    OT for anybody that's interested and has money :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw-__BwhecQ

    Replies: @Hunsdon

    I am pleased that you are a fan of Gun Jesus.

  79. @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    There were a lot more than a couple thousand Jews in the states during the Civil War. More like 150,000.

    I’m not arguing that Jews bore any special responsibility for slavery, but they certainly didn’t earn any special status as champions of black slaves at the time, either. Abolitionism was a fundamentally Christian movement, and that fact is seldom noted today.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
  80. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect [owning slaves] of their life either way.
     
    If they had been gentiles, you can damn well be sure that it would have.

    Also - "that aspect of their life". Hah! Very nice. Not "their moral turpitude", or "their racist transgression" just "that aspect of their life".

    Slavery - it's a lifestyle!

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Also – “that aspect of their life”. Hah! Very nice. Not “their moral turpitude”, or “their racist transgression” just “that aspect of their life”.

    What is the Torah’s position on slavery?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Anonymous

    There were slaves in almost all societies throughout history. Although slavery is illegal almost everywhere, there are more slaves on the planet now than there ever have been in the past. The percentage of people living in slavery is lower than in the past.

    There are many types of slavery. The most benign were some types of serfdom in which the serfs had some rights, but did not have the freedom of movement etc. and were beholden to a vassal lord. The work units of Communist countries was the same thing. A friend of mine was forbidden to study in the US in the 1980s because her work unit leader wouldn’t let her go, until her well connected father put some pressure on the guy.

  81. @Sam Malone
    @Daniel H

    This sort of post is just mean and hateful, as well as dumb since there's no subtext or thought to it other than ridiculing people for their physical appearance. I wish Steve didn't let posts like this go through.

    Replies: @Daniel H

    Yeah, you’re right. I’m ashamed.

  82. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    The Lehman Bros finance company stock brokers arrived in New Orleans in 1801. They were Germans fleeing the French invasions of the German states. They soon became the 2nd largest ave brokers in the south.

    In 1851 they relocated to San Francisco for the Gold Rush and later to New York.

    That’s the finance company that flourigshec more than 100 years and went bust during the mortgage meltdow

    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company

    Replies: @Flip, @Anonymous, @Hibernian

    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company

    What are you getting at?

  83. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    @Jack D

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south. The went to San Francisco before the civil
    War The Schulzbergers of the New York Timed were originally southerners. The wife was a founder of the Daughters of the Confederacy.

    In the 18th and first half of the 19th century there were more Jews in the south east than in the north. Bernard Baruch’s family owned thousands of acres of prime southern farmland and hundreds of slaves. The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews. Jewish American history didn’t start with the Ellis island communists crusaders and founders of NAACP.

    No reason to get so defensive. At least you are aware there’s been Jews in America since the earliest years, unlike so many Ellis Island communists

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Kaganovitch, @Reg Cæsar

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south.

    Do you have a book to recommend or other references to learn about this history?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

    , @Kaganovitch
    @Anonymous

    If he had , he would have read it himself rather than make stuff up.

    , @Ed
    @Anonymous

    He’s embellishing a bit. I’ve not read one book on the subject but have read the subject touched upon in various books. The beginning of Trust about the NYT family goes into the Southern roots of the family. The mother of the Adolph Ochs was a resolute confederate from Kentucky, she remained one until she died. There are books about Lehman and Goldman founders

    Jews in the South were no different than their WASP neighbors. They also spanned the economic spectrum. Some were wealthy merchants others were traveling the backroads selling their wares eking out a living.

    I’m reading Chernow’s Grant bio and he has a bit on Grant’s infamous order 15 that barred Jews from Tennessee due to speculation in the area he controlled. The thing is at the time there was an immediate backlash. It was not popular and nearly drew Congressional sanction if Grant did not rescind the order. Even his own wife chastised him for issuing it.

    I know it disappoints many on this board but American anti-semitism is minute compared to the European variety.

    Replies: @Jack D

  84. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia
    @Bill P

    The idea isn’t silly, and there’s plenty of DNA evidence it happened (why do you think the average black American is 20-30 percent European?)

    Some wives tolerated it, some probably complained but no doubt the husbands probably went behind their back. In French-influenced parts of the South they had the French attitude towards affairs/mistresses.

    Also before the 1850s the South was kinda wild...the least religious part of the country.

    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sam Coulton

    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.

    Female hypergamy is a sufficient explanation.

  85. Massini the Italian who wrote it is very much Pro-Zionist. He speaks Hebrew for a start. Nothing unusual there………..
    Oh, and one of the first plays he directed was the Diary of Ann Frank. Yes, the 1951 Biro masterpiece.

    https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2018/07/12/on-stage-the-saga-of-the-lehman-brothers-is-a-parable-of-america

  86. @Anonymous
    @Alden


    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south.
     
    Do you have a book to recommend or other references to learn about this history?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Kaganovitch, @Ed

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  87. Anonymous[863] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes
    According to the book Statesmen of the Lost Cause, a goodly percentage of the large plantation owners were transplants from the North. Some of the biggest plantations were founded during the decades immediately preceding the Civil War. They were located in the then frontier "western" states of Mississippi and Louisiana.

    The new owners, eager to cash in on the cotton boon, bought huge tracts of wilderness forest cheaply. Too impatient to actually clear and till the forest, they simply burnt the trees as they stood. The cotton was then planted between the still standing trees, which, now stripped bare of foliage, allowed ample sunlight to penetrate to the understory. After three to five years of intensive cotton cultivation, the soil was depleted and the owner simply pulled up stakes and moved further west.

    These guys were exploitive in the worst sense. They felt no sense of proprietorship or kinship with the soil. They wanted to get rich fast. This attitude brought them into conflict with the old gentry of the Carolinas and Virginia. This schism persisted right up to the outbreak of the Civil War, with the--as I said above--often Northern educated or northern transplanted men of the western wilderness supporting plans for a radical break with the busy-body North while the coastal Old Southern tobacco and indigo planters counseled a more cautious and diplomatic course.

    On numerous points, this is an inversion of the popularly accepted history.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    These guys were exploitive in the worst sense. They felt no sense of proprietorship or kinship with the soil. They wanted to get rich fast. This attitude brought them into conflict with the old gentry of the Carolinas and Virginia.

    Can you recommend some books about this?

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @Anonymous

    The book I cited, Statesmen of the Lost Cause by Burton J. Hendrick, (1939) is available on Amazon here. Five of six reviewers gave it five stars, overall, 4.8.

    Here's a sample, "One is often tempted to think of the American Civil War only in terms of the generals of both sides, and the two presidents. However, there were many more people who were involved in trying to bring their side's view to being. In this case, we are treated to the men who oversaw the efforts of the bureaucracy of the Confederate States of America."

    and

    "Hendricks in 1939 gives us the definitive coverage of the political figures of the Southern Confederacy. The writing is crisp, and the content is apt."

    https://www.amazon.com/Statesmen-lost-cause-Jefferson-cabinet/dp/B0006AOORE/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2F5XGJSA4TDEJ&keywords=statesmen+of+the+lost+cause&qid=1554723500&s=books&sprefix=statesmen+of+the+lost+%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-1-catcorr

    Replies: @Anonymous

  88. @The Alarmist

    "... to its extinction in 2008 that helped set off the Great Financial Crash ...."
     
    Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine. The more fascinating story is how the former CEO of Goldman Sachs insinuated himself into a position where he could dispatch two of that firm's longer standing rivals and neuter a number of others.

    A remake of Fiddler on the Roof, with Tevye being rewritten as Hank Paulson, seems a bit too off the mark and a bit unsympathetic: How about a remake of Annie, but with Daddy Warbucks rewritten as Hank Paulson so the goyim can cheer him on?

    Replies: @bomag, @Father O'Hara, @anon

    >Lehman played a relatively small part in the GFC; it was more like a canary in a coal mine.

    Huh? Lehman’s bankruptcy was central in the climax. Bear Stearns, six months prior, seems more analogous to canary in coalmine.

  89. @Alden
    The Lehman Bros finance company stock brokers arrived in New Orleans in 1801. They were Germans fleeing the French invasions of the German states. They soon became the 2nd largest ave brokers in the south.

    In 1851 they relocated to San Francisco for the Gold Rush and later to New York.

    That’s the finance company that flourigshec more than 100 years and went bust during the mortgage meltdow

    Lehman’s a common German name. There probably was a German immigrant named Lehman to Alabama in the 1850s. But that family had nothing to do with the Lehman Broa finiancial company

    Replies: @Flip, @Anonymous, @Hibernian

    You have Lazard Freres confused with Lehman Brothers.

  90. @Daniel H
    More Lehman descendants. Physiognomy reveals truths.

    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/irr1_5VF5yMM/v1/800x-1.jpg

    Replies: @trelane, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Isn’t the guy on the far left the guy who played Elliott Schwartz in Breaking Bad? You know, guy who was Walter White’s college buddy who screwed him out of his share of the business he co-founded, ending up rich and married to Walt’s ex-girlfriend while Walt ended up as a lowly high school teacher.

  91. @Jim Don Bob
    @Mr. Anon


    Ah, yes, American Beauty – another in a long line of movies about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal. How novel. How daring!
     
    Right. That's why I never watched it.

    Replies: @RationalExpressions

    That and hearing it used the anti-conservative trope of the right wing bigoted homophobes turning out to be homosexuals (never saw that coming!) kept me away too.

  92. @ThreeCranes
    @Mr. Anon


    "about the hypocrisy, depravity, and stultifying boredom of middle-class american suburban life. The unbearable oppression of being normal."
     
    Funny isn't it? How the focus of the Frankfurt School's critique of American life in the 1960's was the stultifying, "alienating" lifestyle that manufacturing imposed on the mind of the citizen in a technological state. Where did that go? I don't hear Jewish intellectuals taking that line at all these days. I guess when you become a lawyer, Wall Street titan or software wizard some of that revolution of the lumpenproles stuff becomes less compelling.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Yes, apparently liberal urban BOBOs are not stultified, despite the fact that they lead materialist, comfortable – one might even say “privileged” – lives. Neither are they conformists, despite all mostly believing the same things.

  93. @Alden
    @Jack D

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south. The went to San Francisco before the civil
    War The Schulzbergers of the New York Timed were originally southerners. The wife was a founder of the Daughters of the Confederacy.

    In the 18th and first half of the 19th century there were more Jews in the south east than in the north. Bernard Baruch’s family owned thousands of acres of prime southern farmland and hundreds of slaves. The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews. Jewish American history didn’t start with the Ellis island communists crusaders and founders of NAACP.

    No reason to get so defensive. At least you are aware there’s been Jews in America since the earliest years, unlike so many Ellis Island communists

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Kaganovitch, @Reg Cæsar

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds.

    This is sheer fantasy. The population of Savannah in 1860 , on the eve of the Civil War was 22,000 and change per
    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/savannah-population/

    The Jewish population of Savannah in 1860 was approx. 345 ” An 1850s listing of pew assignments in Mickve Israel bears the names of 45 male members, as many as half of which belonged to first-generation German arrivals. The Jewish community doubled in size during the 1850s, reaching approximately 345 by 1860.” Per
    https://www.isjl.org/georgia-savannah-encyclopedia.html.

    So off by a factor of 20 or so.

  94. @Anonymous
    @Alden


    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south.
     
    Do you have a book to recommend or other references to learn about this history?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Kaganovitch, @Ed

    If he had , he would have read it himself rather than make stuff up.

  95. @Father O'Hara
    @Mr. Anon

    Eventually, outdoor toilet.
    " He picked up his suitcase and walked quickly into the great outdoor toilet that is America."

    Replies: @Kaganovitch

    We need a COL button

  96. @S. Anonyia
    @Bill P

    The idea isn’t silly, and there’s plenty of DNA evidence it happened (why do you think the average black American is 20-30 percent European?)

    Some wives tolerated it, some probably complained but no doubt the husbands probably went behind their back. In French-influenced parts of the South they had the French attitude towards affairs/mistresses.

    Also before the 1850s the South was kinda wild...the least religious part of the country.

    The myth about it is that it was largely rape- no doubt it was mostly consensual since a slave having an affair with the master would probably get better treatment/assignments for herself and her family.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sam Coulton

    You can’t have consensual sex between a slave and a non-slave, for the same reason you can’t between a child and an adult or between a prison warden and an inmate. Absence of force isn’t the same thing as consent.

    • LOL: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Sam Coulton

    Child and adult,no. The others,yes.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sam Coulton

    , @Bill P
    @Sam Coulton

    That's a logical fallacy.

    Replies: @Sam Coulton

    , @reiner Tor
    @Sam Coulton

    Legally, you can define it that way. But in reality, we know that children and slaves and prison inmates also have minds. With prepubescent children the issue is that such a child has no idea what sexuality is (even if you show them pornography), so I don't think it's possible for a child to ever truly want sexual contacts with anyone.

    But adolescents very much have sexuality, so it's not at all inconceivable for them to actually want to have a sexual relation with an adult, even if (or in some cases: because of) the adult in question has power over them. And I don't think it's possible to deny that prison inmates often want or even initiate such sexual contacts, for a number of reasons, and similarly it's pretty likely that slaves also often wanted or initiated or tried to initiate such contacts.

    Replies: @Sam Coulton

  97. @Sam Coulton
    @S. Anonyia

    You can't have consensual sex between a slave and a non-slave, for the same reason you can't between a child and an adult or between a prison warden and an inmate. Absence of force isn't the same thing as consent.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Bill P, @reiner Tor

    Child and adult,no. The others,yes.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Father O'Hara

    Prepubescent children don't have sexuality, so they don't want sexual relations with anyone, not with adults, other children, animals, or objects. Adolescents and all the rest do have sexuality, so it's possible for them to want to have sex or any form of sexual contact with adults or other adolescents. It doesn't mean that legally or socially we have to condone the behavior of adults who engage in such relationships, but that it's an objective description of reality that sometimes such relations are consensual.

    It goes without saying that legally and socially we might censure sexual contacts between prison wards and inmates, too, regardless of whether the inmates in question wanted them or not.

    , @Sam Coulton
    @Father O'Hara

    Gay prison inmate detected.

  98. @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    I understand that the big Enchilada jew,Judah Benjamin,was pure hell on his slaves and treated them in an abominable way,a way very few whites would.
    I may have the wrong jew.Anyone?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Father O'Hara

    I don't think they had OSHA inspectors on the plantations scoring them for level of cruelty, so any evidence is likely to be highly subjective and perhaps shaded by the writer's like or dislike for the slave master in question (and/or the slave master's ethnic group). Slavery was an inherently cruel institution, especially once the economy shifted to cotton. In old Virginye, it was not uncommon for at least some slaves to be trained as artisans and craftsmen - their higher productivity usually ended up being shared in some informal way between master and slave. But down de river, what they needed most of all was strong backs to pick cotton and lots of them and there were few opportunities for slaves to have some kind of side gig so you wouldn't have to go 'round dressed in rags.

  99. @Sam Coulton
    @S. Anonyia

    You can't have consensual sex between a slave and a non-slave, for the same reason you can't between a child and an adult or between a prison warden and an inmate. Absence of force isn't the same thing as consent.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Bill P, @reiner Tor

    That’s a logical fallacy.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    @Bill P

    Pedophile detected.

  100. @Buffalo Joe
    Name change at immigration check through was commom. Witness the clothing company in the Bronx of Genaro, Genaro and Ting. The third brother in line, when asked his name, nodded to his brother and said "Sam Ting as his."

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    Huh? Dude, I believe you mangled a fairly good joke:
    Man walks down Manhattan street,sees a sign saying,”Marvin Greenbergs Chinese Laundry.”
    Curious he enters and asks to meet Mr. Greenberg. A small Chinese man comes out to greet him.
    “Youre Marvin Greenberg? How?”
    “I in line at immeegration. Man ask fellow in front of me what name. He say Marvin Greenberg. He then ask my name. I tell him. Sam Ting…”

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Father O'Hara

    Father, short form so roughed up a bit, not mangled. Ok, dude?

  101. @Shermy
    The Lehman’s actually OWNED slaves!

    What puzzles me about the play, and the NYT is, why not at least mention something as morally transgressive as profiting off the slave trade? It’s not like Lehman’s evil deeds aren’t easily verifiable from a casual search on the internet. Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of "the tricky Jew," so why do they do it?

    Hayem Lehman owning a black slave girl, is historically important.

    What was his personal relationship with his slaves? Did it go so far as to be... Jeffersonian? Were there any little mulatto Lehman’s running about in the South back in the day? Maybe an enterprising reporter could dig deeper to find out for us. Perhaps a Lehman Bros play in the future can be mulatto-infused, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, historically accurate.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    Omission by the NYT only propagates the negative Jewish stereotype of “the tricky Jew,” so why do they do it?

    Because most people won’t search Google to find out anything about these issues. So by omitting it from their articles, they are omitting it from the minds of their readers.

  102. @Jack D
    @Shermy

    It's bad enough that Leftists have lurid rape fantasies of white men raping black women - it's unseemly on the right, even if you project your fantasies onto the Joos. Unlike Jefferson for which there is DNA evidence, you have zero evidence that Herr Lehmann was sleeping with the help.

    The entire Lehman family apparently owned a total of 7 slaves, so they were not exactly running a cotton plantation - these must have been the household staff. It's not at all surprising that a successful Southern family at that time had a few household servants. If this was up north, they would have been Irish indentured servants instead and it would have been pretty much the same relationship. There's some evidence that slaves actually got treated better, for the same reason you treat your own car better than you do a rental car. Jews in the South were not Civil Rights time travelers - they had the same attitude toward slavery as their Christian neighbors. It's not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn't. As far as I can tell, this play doesn't really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way. If you want to write an imaginary lurid account of the Lehman's sexual adventures with the household help, write your own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Bill P, @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    Certainly the idea that the Lehmans raped their household slaves is not very interesting. (Even if they slept with those girls, it wasn’t necessarily rape: I have heard of hypergamy and the idea that a slave girl might actually be receptive to the advances of her master, and that she might actually like it.)

    It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t. As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way.

    It’s interesting that they left out that angle. They keep talking about the plight of blacks in the South (or anywhere else), but then here we have a play dealing with that historical era and place, and nary a word comes up.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @reiner Tor

    As far as I can tell, the play is about the great arc that an immigrant dynasty experienced, from a tiny dry goods store in some muddy Alabama town (Montgomery BTW was founded by a Sephardic Jew as a trading post with the Indians) to a position at the pinnacle of global finance (and then a great fall from the heights). Bringing the Lehman family servants into this narrative would just have been a distraction. Maybe if it was a story about Judah Benjamin, it would have been strange to omit his plantation but the Lehman family owned a handful of household slaves, the same as any other Southern family in their economic bracket at the time - they would have only distracted from the main point of the play. In the end it's an artistic decision - write your own play if you want to have the Lehman family slaves in it.

    Speaking of Benjamin, contrary to Father O'hara's slander, here is what Pierce Butler, the author of the standard biography on Benjamin, said in 1906, before it became PC to depict plantations as other than concentration camps: His slaves had

    “none but kindly memories, and romantic legends of the days of glory
    on the old place."
     

    https://books.google.com/books?id=zrl2AAAAMAAJ&q=kindly+memories#v=snippet&q=kindly%20memories&f=false


    I'd be interested to see what Father O'hara's sources were for his slander on Benjamin or did he just pull it out of his *ss? I am always amazed how thinly sourced some of the anti-Semitic crap on unz.com is - people are certainly entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts. If you say that the population of Savannah was 1/3 Jewish you are just making shit up to suit your prejudices and fantasies. The whole "Jews ran the slave trade" thing was originated by Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. WNs and Black Muslims don't agree on much, but I guess Jew hatred is one area of mutual agreement.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  103. Well. You should like these guys. Seeing as they’re so pro-free-market and pro-slavery. You hate socialists and blacks. So you must be pro-these guys.

  104. @Sam Coulton
    @S. Anonyia

    You can't have consensual sex between a slave and a non-slave, for the same reason you can't between a child and an adult or between a prison warden and an inmate. Absence of force isn't the same thing as consent.

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Bill P, @reiner Tor

    Legally, you can define it that way. But in reality, we know that children and slaves and prison inmates also have minds. With prepubescent children the issue is that such a child has no idea what sexuality is (even if you show them pornography), so I don’t think it’s possible for a child to ever truly want sexual contacts with anyone.

    But adolescents very much have sexuality, so it’s not at all inconceivable for them to actually want to have a sexual relation with an adult, even if (or in some cases: because of) the adult in question has power over them. And I don’t think it’s possible to deny that prison inmates often want or even initiate such sexual contacts, for a number of reasons, and similarly it’s pretty likely that slaves also often wanted or initiated or tried to initiate such contacts.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    @reiner Tor

    Pedophile detected.

  105. @Daniel H
    Lehman descendants, from your link. To these look like health people?

    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i2b3lxtbKWUY/v3/800x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @Ed, @Desiderius

    Healthy enough to have a kid. I think Steve posted a story last year about some elite WASP family where the three sons are all gay. No kids in the offing there.

  106. @Father O'Hara
    @Sam Coulton

    Child and adult,no. The others,yes.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sam Coulton

    Prepubescent children don’t have sexuality, so they don’t want sexual relations with anyone, not with adults, other children, animals, or objects. Adolescents and all the rest do have sexuality, so it’s possible for them to want to have sex or any form of sexual contact with adults or other adolescents. It doesn’t mean that legally or socially we have to condone the behavior of adults who engage in such relationships, but that it’s an objective description of reality that sometimes such relations are consensual.

    It goes without saying that legally and socially we might censure sexual contacts between prison wards and inmates, too, regardless of whether the inmates in question wanted them or not.

  107. Ed says:
    @Anonymous
    @Alden


    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south.
     
    Do you have a book to recommend or other references to learn about this history?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Kaganovitch, @Ed

    He’s embellishing a bit. I’ve not read one book on the subject but have read the subject touched upon in various books. The beginning of Trust about the NYT family goes into the Southern roots of the family. The mother of the Adolph Ochs was a resolute confederate from Kentucky, she remained one until she died. There are books about Lehman and Goldman founders

    Jews in the South were no different than their WASP neighbors. They also spanned the economic spectrum. Some were wealthy merchants others were traveling the backroads selling their wares eking out a living.

    I’m reading Chernow’s Grant bio and he has a bit on Grant’s infamous order 15 that barred Jews from Tennessee due to speculation in the area he controlled. The thing is at the time there was an immediate backlash. It was not popular and nearly drew Congressional sanction if Grant did not rescind the order. Even his own wife chastised him for issuing it.

    I know it disappoints many on this board but American anti-semitism is minute compared to the European variety.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ed

    So a factor of 20 is embellishing "a bit"?

    Regarding Grant, it's true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  108. Kind of interesting Russian Jews contributed to America becoming more liberal and Israel becoming more right wing.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @Ed

    Pre-Soviet vs Post-Soviet! But the Russian Jews who headed for Ottoman Syria and the British Mandate of Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th century weren't all that different from their American counterparts at first. The eradication of Jewish Marxism in Israel (which included both a formally Soviet-aligned communist party and a larger independent but USSR-sympathetic socialist party) was a decades-long process. Although they were a clear minority by the time the country declared independence, they remained a powerful faction for some time. There's an Israeli right-wing author named Amnon Lord who has written some interesting, somewhat conspiratorial articles about Marxist subversion in Israel during the 1950s.

    , @Jack D
    @Ed

    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis. It was a generational thing - the Ellis Island Jews left Russia when socialism represented modernity and opposition to reactionary (and anti-Semitic) Czarist rule and they had a fond view of it. (Communism also represented liberation from the stifling ways of the shtetl and rabbinic restrictions). Outright Communism has lost favor (though socialism is making a bit of a comeback) but American Jews have never shifted from the Leftist orientation their great grandparents arrived with. Given the warm welcome they are given by many on the right, who accuse them of everything up to and including killing Christian children to make matzoh, you can understand why they might not have ever switched sides even as their economic prosperity increased.

    OTOH, by the time the Russian Jews left the Soviet Union they had been thru 60 years of Communist rule (which in its later guises took a distinctly anti-Semitic turn) and were highly allergic to Leftism of any kind.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  109. @Ed
    Kind of interesting Russian Jews contributed to America becoming more liberal and Israel becoming more right wing.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Jack D

    Pre-Soviet vs Post-Soviet! But the Russian Jews who headed for Ottoman Syria and the British Mandate of Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th century weren’t all that different from their American counterparts at first. The eradication of Jewish Marxism in Israel (which included both a formally Soviet-aligned communist party and a larger independent but USSR-sympathetic socialist party) was a decades-long process. Although they were a clear minority by the time the country declared independence, they remained a powerful faction for some time. There’s an Israeli right-wing author named Amnon Lord who has written some interesting, somewhat conspiratorial articles about Marxist subversion in Israel during the 1950s.

  110. @Anonymous
    @ThreeCranes


    These guys were exploitive in the worst sense. They felt no sense of proprietorship or kinship with the soil. They wanted to get rich fast. This attitude brought them into conflict with the old gentry of the Carolinas and Virginia.
     
    Can you recommend some books about this?

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    The book I cited, Statesmen of the Lost Cause by Burton J. Hendrick, (1939) is available on Amazon here. Five of six reviewers gave it five stars, overall, 4.8.

    Here’s a sample, “One is often tempted to think of the American Civil War only in terms of the generals of both sides, and the two presidents. However, there were many more people who were involved in trying to bring their side’s view to being. In this case, we are treated to the men who oversaw the efforts of the bureaucracy of the Confederate States of America.”

    and

    “Hendricks in 1939 gives us the definitive coverage of the political figures of the Southern Confederacy. The writing is crisp, and the content is apt.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ThreeCranes

    Thank you.

  111. reading the Leaf review, I’m reminded that I have a great grandfather first name Bernie (my name too, though i don’t use it) who was a “cotton broker” in Dallas/Ft. Worth. What are the chances he was a MOT? If I took one of those genetic tests, would it determine?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @nglaer

    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  112. @Father O'Hara
    @Buffalo Joe

    Huh? Dude, I believe you mangled a fairly good joke:
    Man walks down Manhattan street,sees a sign saying,"Marvin Greenbergs Chinese Laundry."
    Curious he enters and asks to meet Mr. Greenberg. A small Chinese man comes out to greet him.
    "Youre Marvin Greenberg? How?"
    "I in line at immeegration. Man ask fellow in front of me what name. He say Marvin Greenberg. He then ask my name. I tell him. Sam Ting..."

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Father, short form so roughed up a bit, not mangled. Ok, dude?

    • Agree: Hibernian
  113. Stop Valorizing The Money-Grubbing Scottish Bankers!

    Stop Valorizing The Money-Grubbing Jew Bankers!

    Dammit!

    Alexander Hamilton And The Lehman Brothers Were Money-Grubbing Globalizer Banker Rats!

    The Koch Brothers Can Phuck Off Too!

  114. @Daniel H
    Lehman descendants, from your link. To these look like health people?

    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i2b3lxtbKWUY/v3/800x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @Ed, @Desiderius

    Yes.

  115. @Father O'Hara
    @Jack D

    I understand that the big Enchilada jew,Judah Benjamin,was pure hell on his slaves and treated them in an abominable way,a way very few whites would.
    I may have the wrong jew.Anyone?

    Replies: @Jack D

    I don’t think they had OSHA inspectors on the plantations scoring them for level of cruelty, so any evidence is likely to be highly subjective and perhaps shaded by the writer’s like or dislike for the slave master in question (and/or the slave master’s ethnic group). Slavery was an inherently cruel institution, especially once the economy shifted to cotton. In old Virginye, it was not uncommon for at least some slaves to be trained as artisans and craftsmen – their higher productivity usually ended up being shared in some informal way between master and slave. But down de river, what they needed most of all was strong backs to pick cotton and lots of them and there were few opportunities for slaves to have some kind of side gig so you wouldn’t have to go ’round dressed in rags.

  116. @Ed
    @Anonymous

    He’s embellishing a bit. I’ve not read one book on the subject but have read the subject touched upon in various books. The beginning of Trust about the NYT family goes into the Southern roots of the family. The mother of the Adolph Ochs was a resolute confederate from Kentucky, she remained one until she died. There are books about Lehman and Goldman founders

    Jews in the South were no different than their WASP neighbors. They also spanned the economic spectrum. Some were wealthy merchants others were traveling the backroads selling their wares eking out a living.

    I’m reading Chernow’s Grant bio and he has a bit on Grant’s infamous order 15 that barred Jews from Tennessee due to speculation in the area he controlled. The thing is at the time there was an immediate backlash. It was not popular and nearly drew Congressional sanction if Grant did not rescind the order. Even his own wife chastised him for issuing it.

    I know it disappoints many on this board but American anti-semitism is minute compared to the European variety.

    Replies: @Jack D

    So a factor of 20 is embellishing “a bit”?

    Regarding Grant, it’s true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    Regarding Grant, it’s true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.
     
    The reversal of a wartime order intended to curb the illegal black market trading in Southern cotton by Jews--trading that aided the enemies of the Union when Union soldiers were being killed by those enemies--is indicative of the massive power of the Jewish lobby despite their small numbers, even back then.

    Replies: @Jack D

  117. @reiner Tor
    @Sam Coulton

    Legally, you can define it that way. But in reality, we know that children and slaves and prison inmates also have minds. With prepubescent children the issue is that such a child has no idea what sexuality is (even if you show them pornography), so I don't think it's possible for a child to ever truly want sexual contacts with anyone.

    But adolescents very much have sexuality, so it's not at all inconceivable for them to actually want to have a sexual relation with an adult, even if (or in some cases: because of) the adult in question has power over them. And I don't think it's possible to deny that prison inmates often want or even initiate such sexual contacts, for a number of reasons, and similarly it's pretty likely that slaves also often wanted or initiated or tried to initiate such contacts.

    Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Pedophile detected.

  118. @Father O'Hara
    @Sam Coulton

    Child and adult,no. The others,yes.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sam Coulton

    Gay prison inmate detected.

  119. @Bill P
    @Sam Coulton

    That's a logical fallacy.

    Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Pedophile detected.

  120. @nglaer
    reading the Leaf review, I'm reminded that I have a great grandfather first name Bernie (my name too, though i don't use it) who was a "cotton broker" in Dallas/Ft. Worth. What are the chances he was a MOT? If I took one of those genetic tests, would it determine?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.
     
    Many Jewish Southerners were Sephardic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  121. You’ve got me convinced. we need a new revolution against all the trash given us by the sexual revolution and the likes of Kevin Spacey (he’s in trouble these days, isn’t he?) and Alan Ball. Never heard of the guy before this thread, but he strikes me as one of the Devil’s demons.

  122. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @nglaer

    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.

    Many Jewish Southerners were Sephardic.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    Many Jewish Southerners were Sephardic.
     
    Newport's sure were. Including Emma Lazarus. When her grandfather co-founded the NY Stock Exchange with four other Jews (and 20 or so other men), only one of them was Ashkenazi. Stephen Birmingham had a good book on the Sephardi. I can't judge its veracity, but it's a fun read.

    The Sephardic Jews in Rhode Island asked for, and got, a loophole in the marriage law there to allow their avuncular marriages. It's still on the books:

    RHODE ISLAND AND CONSANGUINEOUS JEWISH MARRIAGES

    In Rhode Island, Jews Can Marry Their Relatives!
  123. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Ed

    So a factor of 20 is embellishing "a bit"?

    Regarding Grant, it's true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Regarding Grant, it’s true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.

    The reversal of a wartime order intended to curb the illegal black market trading in Southern cotton by Jews–trading that aided the enemies of the Union when Union soldiers were being killed by those enemies–is indicative of the massive power of the Jewish lobby despite their small numbers, even back then.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    This was the text of Grant's order:


    The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
     
    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Germ Theory of Disease

  124. @reiner Tor
    @Jack D

    Certainly the idea that the Lehmans raped their household slaves is not very interesting. (Even if they slept with those girls, it wasn't necessarily rape: I have heard of hypergamy and the idea that a slave girl might actually be receptive to the advances of her master, and that she might actually like it.)


    It’s not some kind of delicious revelation of Jewish hypocrisy that Southern Jews once owned slaves. No one has ever claimed that they didn’t. As far as I can tell, this play doesn’t really concern itself with that aspect of their life either way.
     
    It's interesting that they left out that angle. They keep talking about the plight of blacks in the South (or anywhere else), but then here we have a play dealing with that historical era and place, and nary a word comes up.

    Replies: @Jack D

    As far as I can tell, the play is about the great arc that an immigrant dynasty experienced, from a tiny dry goods store in some muddy Alabama town (Montgomery BTW was founded by a Sephardic Jew as a trading post with the Indians) to a position at the pinnacle of global finance (and then a great fall from the heights). Bringing the Lehman family servants into this narrative would just have been a distraction. Maybe if it was a story about Judah Benjamin, it would have been strange to omit his plantation but the Lehman family owned a handful of household slaves, the same as any other Southern family in their economic bracket at the time – they would have only distracted from the main point of the play. In the end it’s an artistic decision – write your own play if you want to have the Lehman family slaves in it.

    Speaking of Benjamin, contrary to Father O’hara’s slander, here is what Pierce Butler, the author of the standard biography on Benjamin, said in 1906, before it became PC to depict plantations as other than concentration camps: His slaves had

    “none but kindly memories, and romantic legends of the days of glory
    on the old place.”

    https://books.google.com/books?id=zrl2AAAAMAAJ&q=kindly+memories#v=snippet&q=kindly%20memories&f=false

    I’d be interested to see what Father O’hara’s sources were for his slander on Benjamin or did he just pull it out of his *ss? I am always amazed how thinly sourced some of the anti-Semitic crap on unz.com is – people are certainly entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts. If you say that the population of Savannah was 1/3 Jewish you are just making shit up to suit your prejudices and fantasies. The whole “Jews ran the slave trade” thing was originated by Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. WNs and Black Muslims don’t agree on much, but I guess Jew hatred is one area of mutual agreement.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    The point they’re making is that it is now mandatory to shoehorn slavery into all other pieces of that period, but that somehow Jews are exempt.

    Bidenesque.

    Replies: @Jack D

  125. @Ed
    Kind of interesting Russian Jews contributed to America becoming more liberal and Israel becoming more right wing.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Jack D

    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis. It was a generational thing – the Ellis Island Jews left Russia when socialism represented modernity and opposition to reactionary (and anti-Semitic) Czarist rule and they had a fond view of it. (Communism also represented liberation from the stifling ways of the shtetl and rabbinic restrictions). Outright Communism has lost favor (though socialism is making a bit of a comeback) but American Jews have never shifted from the Leftist orientation their great grandparents arrived with. Given the warm welcome they are given by many on the right, who accuse them of everything up to and including killing Christian children to make matzoh, you can understand why they might not have ever switched sides even as their economic prosperity increased.

    OTOH, by the time the Russian Jews left the Soviet Union they had been thru 60 years of Communist rule (which in its later guises took a distinctly anti-Semitic turn) and were highly allergic to Leftism of any kind.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis.
     
    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot, who publicly stated that he'd sooner vote for Joseph Stalin than for Donald Trump?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

  126. @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    Regarding Grant, it’s true that there was an immediate backlash, but in order to have a backlash you have to have a frontlash first.
     
    The reversal of a wartime order intended to curb the illegal black market trading in Southern cotton by Jews--trading that aided the enemies of the Union when Union soldiers were being killed by those enemies--is indicative of the massive power of the Jewish lobby despite their small numbers, even back then.

    Replies: @Jack D

    This was the text of Grant’s order:

    The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.

    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.
     
    On what grounds was it obviously unconstitutional?
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    You're quite the busy beaver these days, rushing around on every thread, damming up all the leaks. Lots and lots and lots of explanations, sooo many things to correct and explain...

    (Wanders off, whistling Robert Johnson's "Hellhound on My Trail")

  127. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @TWS
    Not only do I not understand these people, it's pretty clear they hate us. Tough to reconcile us staying together.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Not only do I not understand these people, it’s pretty clear they hate us.

    What do you mean? What information caused you to make this observation?

  128. @Jack D
    @reiner Tor

    As far as I can tell, the play is about the great arc that an immigrant dynasty experienced, from a tiny dry goods store in some muddy Alabama town (Montgomery BTW was founded by a Sephardic Jew as a trading post with the Indians) to a position at the pinnacle of global finance (and then a great fall from the heights). Bringing the Lehman family servants into this narrative would just have been a distraction. Maybe if it was a story about Judah Benjamin, it would have been strange to omit his plantation but the Lehman family owned a handful of household slaves, the same as any other Southern family in their economic bracket at the time - they would have only distracted from the main point of the play. In the end it's an artistic decision - write your own play if you want to have the Lehman family slaves in it.

    Speaking of Benjamin, contrary to Father O'hara's slander, here is what Pierce Butler, the author of the standard biography on Benjamin, said in 1906, before it became PC to depict plantations as other than concentration camps: His slaves had

    “none but kindly memories, and romantic legends of the days of glory
    on the old place."
     

    https://books.google.com/books?id=zrl2AAAAMAAJ&q=kindly+memories#v=snippet&q=kindly%20memories&f=false


    I'd be interested to see what Father O'hara's sources were for his slander on Benjamin or did he just pull it out of his *ss? I am always amazed how thinly sourced some of the anti-Semitic crap on unz.com is - people are certainly entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts. If you say that the population of Savannah was 1/3 Jewish you are just making shit up to suit your prejudices and fantasies. The whole "Jews ran the slave trade" thing was originated by Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. WNs and Black Muslims don't agree on much, but I guess Jew hatred is one area of mutual agreement.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The point they’re making is that it is now mandatory to shoehorn slavery into all other pieces of that period, but that somehow Jews are exempt.

    Bidenesque.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Does the fact that it's a 3 person cast (all three being Lehman Brothers in each generation) change your answer? I haven't read the script or seen the play (nor the 5 hour long Italian radio drama that it is based on) but I would be willing to bet that slavery is mentioned in there somewhere. But the 3 person format did not lend itself to bringing any non-Lehman characters onto the stage. Not just the family slaves but literally no one else appears on the stage except for the 3 main characters. Maybe in unzian terms this was a secret conspiracy to hide the shameful imaginary sexual relationship between Hayum Lehman and his helpless slave girls and just another manifestation of the double standards that are applied to the Joos, but I would say that it makes sense given the format of the play and had nothing to do with the Lehman Brother's religious faith.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Steve Sailer

  129. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes
    @Anonymous

    The book I cited, Statesmen of the Lost Cause by Burton J. Hendrick, (1939) is available on Amazon here. Five of six reviewers gave it five stars, overall, 4.8.

    Here's a sample, "One is often tempted to think of the American Civil War only in terms of the generals of both sides, and the two presidents. However, there were many more people who were involved in trying to bring their side's view to being. In this case, we are treated to the men who oversaw the efforts of the bureaucracy of the Confederate States of America."

    and

    "Hendricks in 1939 gives us the definitive coverage of the political figures of the Southern Confederacy. The writing is crisp, and the content is apt."

    https://www.amazon.com/Statesmen-lost-cause-Jefferson-cabinet/dp/B0006AOORE/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2F5XGJSA4TDEJ&keywords=statesmen+of+the+lost+cause&qid=1554723500&s=books&sprefix=statesmen+of+the+lost+%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-1-catcorr

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Thank you.

  130. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    This was the text of Grant's order:


    The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
     
    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.

    On what grounds was it obviously unconstitutional?

  131. @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    The point they’re making is that it is now mandatory to shoehorn slavery into all other pieces of that period, but that somehow Jews are exempt.

    Bidenesque.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Does the fact that it’s a 3 person cast (all three being Lehman Brothers in each generation) change your answer? I haven’t read the script or seen the play (nor the 5 hour long Italian radio drama that it is based on) but I would be willing to bet that slavery is mentioned in there somewhere. But the 3 person format did not lend itself to bringing any non-Lehman characters onto the stage. Not just the family slaves but literally no one else appears on the stage except for the 3 main characters. Maybe in unzian terms this was a secret conspiracy to hide the shameful imaginary sexual relationship between Hayum Lehman and his helpless slave girls and just another manifestation of the double standards that are applied to the Joos, but I would say that it makes sense given the format of the play and had nothing to do with the Lehman Brother’s religious faith.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    No, there obviously should be no mention of slavery unless it is integral to the story. Just like Israel should get to have all the walls it wants.

    We’d just like to share the same privileges.

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    I'm sure slavery is mentioned somewhere in the lengthy play. I was just struck by how it's not mentioned at all in the fairly capacious New York Times review. In this Age of Antiquarianism concerning blacks, it's striking to leave out all mention of it.

  132. @Jack D
    @Bill P

    While Southern Jews were no different from their neighbors in their view on slavery, keep in mind that the Jewish population of the South in the pre-Civil War period was a tiny % of the population. The idea that Jews somehow dominated or took a leading role in the slave trade is impossible simply because there weren't enough of them. Before the 1840s when the German Jews like Lehman start showing up, the entire Jewish population of the US was a couple of thousand people.

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alden, @Bill P, @Father O'Hara, @OFWHAP

    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.

    Sally was 1/4 black and was the half-sister of Thomas Jefferson’s late wife.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @OFWHAP

    She was also said to resemble his late wife. You can see why he might have been attracted to her. OTOH, their relationship may have begun when she was as young as 14, which sounds kind of icky even allowing for the natural attraction. As I have mentioned before, some of their kids (or at least the kids of Sally and some Jefferson male) were so white that they "crossed the color line" when they moved to the North.

    At that time, it was the custom in Virginia planter circles that each guest at a dinner party have his own personal servant/slave stand behind him and wait on him. Many guests at Jefferson's table noted the resemblance between Jefferson and the (Hemings) manservant standing behind him and those who were not familiar with the ways of the South found it mind boggling to see Jefferson and what looked pretty much like a younger version of himself as his slave. But Southerners (slave and free) sort of took it for granted. In later life the Hemings offspring spoke very fondly and matter of factly of the man they called Father.

  133. @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon


    Also – “that aspect of their life”. Hah! Very nice. Not “their moral turpitude”, or “their racist transgression” just “that aspect of their life”.
     
    What is the Torah's position on slavery?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    There were slaves in almost all societies throughout history. Although slavery is illegal almost everywhere, there are more slaves on the planet now than there ever have been in the past. The percentage of people living in slavery is lower than in the past.

    There are many types of slavery. The most benign were some types of serfdom in which the serfs had some rights, but did not have the freedom of movement etc. and were beholden to a vassal lord. The work units of Communist countries was the same thing. A friend of mine was forbidden to study in the US in the 1980s because her work unit leader wouldn’t let her go, until her well connected father put some pressure on the guy.

  134. @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Does the fact that it's a 3 person cast (all three being Lehman Brothers in each generation) change your answer? I haven't read the script or seen the play (nor the 5 hour long Italian radio drama that it is based on) but I would be willing to bet that slavery is mentioned in there somewhere. But the 3 person format did not lend itself to bringing any non-Lehman characters onto the stage. Not just the family slaves but literally no one else appears on the stage except for the 3 main characters. Maybe in unzian terms this was a secret conspiracy to hide the shameful imaginary sexual relationship between Hayum Lehman and his helpless slave girls and just another manifestation of the double standards that are applied to the Joos, but I would say that it makes sense given the format of the play and had nothing to do with the Lehman Brother's religious faith.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Steve Sailer

    No, there obviously should be no mention of slavery unless it is integral to the story. Just like Israel should get to have all the walls it wants.

    We’d just like to share the same privileges.

  135. Henry is radiant with astonishment, trepidation and a sense of infinite possibilities. His name has already been changed (from Heyum) by a New York customs official

    What cultural insensitivity, anglicizing his name like that. It’s almost like the customs official wanted to give him a step up.

  136. @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Does the fact that it's a 3 person cast (all three being Lehman Brothers in each generation) change your answer? I haven't read the script or seen the play (nor the 5 hour long Italian radio drama that it is based on) but I would be willing to bet that slavery is mentioned in there somewhere. But the 3 person format did not lend itself to bringing any non-Lehman characters onto the stage. Not just the family slaves but literally no one else appears on the stage except for the 3 main characters. Maybe in unzian terms this was a secret conspiracy to hide the shameful imaginary sexual relationship between Hayum Lehman and his helpless slave girls and just another manifestation of the double standards that are applied to the Joos, but I would say that it makes sense given the format of the play and had nothing to do with the Lehman Brother's religious faith.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Steve Sailer

    I’m sure slavery is mentioned somewhere in the lengthy play. I was just struck by how it’s not mentioned at all in the fairly capacious New York Times review. In this Age of Antiquarianism concerning blacks, it’s striking to leave out all mention of it.

  137. @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    This was the text of Grant's order:


    The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
     
    Grant was a plain spoken man and not a legal scholar but even he should have been able to see that an expulsion order targeting Americans on the basis of religion was unconstitutional even in wartime conditions and even if most (or even all) of the black marketeers were Jewish.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You’re quite the busy beaver these days, rushing around on every thread, damming up all the leaks. Lots and lots and lots of explanations, sooo many things to correct and explain…

    (Wanders off, whistling Robert Johnson’s “Hellhound on My Trail”)

  138. @OFWHAP
    @Jack D


    Even Jefferson seems to have started messing around with Sally after his wife died.
     
    Sally was 1/4 black and was the half-sister of Thomas Jefferson's late wife.

    Replies: @Jack D

    She was also said to resemble his late wife. You can see why he might have been attracted to her. OTOH, their relationship may have begun when she was as young as 14, which sounds kind of icky even allowing for the natural attraction. As I have mentioned before, some of their kids (or at least the kids of Sally and some Jefferson male) were so white that they “crossed the color line” when they moved to the North.

    At that time, it was the custom in Virginia planter circles that each guest at a dinner party have his own personal servant/slave stand behind him and wait on him. Many guests at Jefferson’s table noted the resemblance between Jefferson and the (Hemings) manservant standing behind him and those who were not familiar with the ways of the South found it mind boggling to see Jefferson and what looked pretty much like a younger version of himself as his slave. But Southerners (slave and free) sort of took it for granted. In later life the Hemings offspring spoke very fondly and matter of factly of the man they called Father.

  139. @Jack D
    @Ed

    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis. It was a generational thing - the Ellis Island Jews left Russia when socialism represented modernity and opposition to reactionary (and anti-Semitic) Czarist rule and they had a fond view of it. (Communism also represented liberation from the stifling ways of the shtetl and rabbinic restrictions). Outright Communism has lost favor (though socialism is making a bit of a comeback) but American Jews have never shifted from the Leftist orientation their great grandparents arrived with. Given the warm welcome they are given by many on the right, who accuse them of everything up to and including killing Christian children to make matzoh, you can understand why they might not have ever switched sides even as their economic prosperity increased.

    OTOH, by the time the Russian Jews left the Soviet Union they had been thru 60 years of Communist rule (which in its later guises took a distinctly anti-Semitic turn) and were highly allergic to Leftism of any kind.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis.

    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot, who publicly stated that he’d sooner vote for Joseph Stalin than for Donald Trump?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Mr. Anon

    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession. Trump was trying to drag the GOP that direction too. Doesn’t seem to have made much headway.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot...
     
    I think Jack was referring to the straight ones.
  140. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis.
     
    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot, who publicly stated that he'd sooner vote for Joseph Stalin than for Donald Trump?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession. Trump was trying to drag the GOP that direction too. Doesn’t seem to have made much headway.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession.
     
    What did he mean by this?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Desiderius

  141. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    @Mr. Anon

    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession. Trump was trying to drag the GOP that direction too. Doesn’t seem to have made much headway.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession.

    What did he mean by this?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    What did he mean by this?
     
    What does Desiderius mean by anything? I think he might be the last person to ask.
    , @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    Favoring the interests of capital vs the interests of labor, say as regards to immigration policy.

    Many such cases.

  142. They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession.

    Nonsense. Gessen and Ioffe are hardly “right”. Nor is Boot for that matter.

  143. @James Bowery
    Was Henry Lehman played by a black?

    Replies: @Lockean Proviso

    “Was Henry Lehman played by a black?”

    Retro-negrofication is only for the goyim- woke from the dead.

  144. @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession.
     
    What did he mean by this?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Desiderius

    What did he mean by this?

    What does Desiderius mean by anything? I think he might be the last person to ask.

  145. @Alden
    @Jack D

    Savanah Ga was about 1/3 Jewish in the 17 and 18 hundreds. New Orleans always had a large Jewish population. Jews always were way way over represented in slave ownership, as high as 70% percent of Jews owned slaves. Lehman Bros arrived in New Orkeans 1801 and soon became the 2nd largest slave broker in the south. The went to San Francisco before the civil
    War The Schulzbergers of the New York Timed were originally southerners. The wife was a founder of the Daughters of the Confederacy.

    In the 18th and first half of the 19th century there were more Jews in the south east than in the north. Bernard Baruch’s family owned thousands of acres of prime southern farmland and hundreds of slaves. The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews. Jewish American history didn’t start with the Ellis island communists crusaders and founders of NAACP.

    No reason to get so defensive. At least you are aware there’s been Jews in America since the earliest years, unlike so many Ellis Island communists

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Kaganovitch, @Reg Cæsar

    The OT bible thumper southern brand of Protestant was very comfortable with real live OT Jews.

    The “Bible thumpers” were in the hills, where there were few if any Jews. That whole movement grew from the Great Awakening, which wasn’t a Southern thing.

    The planters used the OT to justify their cult of multiracialism and diversity. Otherwise, they weren’t especially religious compared to others. Certainly not to the Bible-thumping English abolitionists.

  146. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    Ex-Soviet Jews in America (and Israel) are as right wing as Israelis.
     
    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot, who publicly stated that he'd sooner vote for Joseph Stalin than for Donald Trump?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

    You mean like Masha Gessen or Julia Ioffe?

    Or Max Boot…

    I think Jack was referring to the straight ones.

  147. @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    They’ve stayed right while we’ve moved left due to our dispossession.
     
    What did he mean by this?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Desiderius

    Favoring the interests of capital vs the interests of labor, say as regards to immigration policy.

    Many such cases.

  148. @Anonymous
    @Jack D


    Yes, Ashkenazi Jews usually have very distinct markers and if you had Jewish ancestry at the great grandfather level, it would probably show up on 23 and me.
     
    Many Jewish Southerners were Sephardic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Many Jewish Southerners were Sephardic.

    Newport’s sure were. Including Emma Lazarus. When her grandfather co-founded the NY Stock Exchange with four other Jews (and 20 or so other men), only one of them was Ashkenazi. Stephen Birmingham had a good book on the Sephardi. I can’t judge its veracity, but it’s a fun read.

    The Sephardic Jews in Rhode Island asked for, and got, a loophole in the marriage law there to allow their avuncular marriages. It’s still on the books:

    RHODE ISLAND AND CONSANGUINEOUS JEWISH MARRIAGES

    In Rhode Island, Jews Can Marry Their Relatives!

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