The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"The Lehman Brothers" vs. Kate Smith
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out a curious aspect of the rave review in the New York Times for the new smash hit play in the tradition of Hamilton as being beloved by deep-pocketed Wall Streeters: The Lehman Trilogy. Even though the first act is about the Jewish immigrant Lehman Brothers arriving in Alabama in the 1840s and starting their eponymous business buying and selling with cotton plantations, the NYT review doesn’t mention anything about … you know … slavery.

Finally, somebody who has actually seen the play mentions that. From the Washington Post opinion page:

The hole at the heart of ‘The Lehman Trilogy’

By Richard Cohen
Columnist
April 8

The hottest ticket in New York at the moment is “The Lehman Trilogy.” Its limited run is sold out, but tickets are available from brokers. They can go for as much as $1,900 a seat, which, I know, is astronomical. But, take it from me, it’s well worth almost any price — mine was a gift. It is an astounding play with only one fault: It fails to mention that Henry, Emanuel and Mayer Lehman were slave owners.

The three brothers, immigrants from Germany, established their business in Montgomery, Ala., before the Civil War. They first had something like a general store, then branched into the trading of cotton, then coffee and, eventually, pure investment banking. By then, they had relocated to New York, where the firm of Lehman Brothers became a pillar of the financial community. Mayer’s son, Herbert Lehman, became governor of the state and later a U.S. senator.

Lehman Brothers, of course, collapsed in 2008. By then, the Lehmans were gone, and the firm had passed into the hands of traders — not bankers — none of whom was a descendant of the founding brothers. The play depicts how this happens, but before the end comes a marvelous beginning — an immigrant’s tale evoking the American Dream, which the Lehmans had gilded in gold. Lehmans would go on to fund the oil industry, Pan American World Airways, the rise of television, “Gone With the Wind,” “King Kong” and, on Broadway, “A Streetcar Named Desire” featuring Marlon Brando. The Lehmans had the touch.

The immensely informative playbill for the show tells us that the play’s author, the Italian Stefano Massini, “utilized his own background in the Jewish faith” to place religion at the center of the story. …

Maybe. But what of the morality of slavery? On this, the play is silent. You may wonder as you watch what the Lehmans were thinking as they went out to Alabama’s plantations to buy cotton — how they felt about slavery — but they never say. It was only after the show, later that night, when my curiosity interfered with sleep, that the Internet disclosed that the Lehmans had owned seven slaves. This hardly made them exceptional.

What to make of this? Should the playwright have acknowledged that the Lehmans owned slaves? I think so. But I have to appreciate that a play is an effort at miniaturization, of compression — this play has only three actors — and the introduction of slavery might well have taken the play in another direction.

… “The Lehman Trilogy” has gotten rapturous reviews but usually with no mention of the hole in its moral heart.

It’s not like the Lehman Brothers were Kate Smith … Have some perspective, people! The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery. They didn’t go so far as to sing songs.

 
Hide 99 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There’s a megaton of music on YouTube that’s free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don’t know how to manage their finances.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    It's not a musical, it's a drama.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon

    , @Anon
    @Anon

    Why do people buy BMWs instead of Toyotas? Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    Replies: @abigail_shapiro, @Hibernian, @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Colin Wright
    @Anon

    'What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There’s a megaton of music on YouTube that’s free, including work from many classic musicals...'

    Well, you know, white privilege. Well, umm, err...

    , @Lot
    @Anon

    Sounds like a better business than even Hamilton, paying only three actors versus a big cast and musicians.

    I’ve never been to a musical, do they have bands or just a good sound system to play the music?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jim Don Bob

    , @bomag
    @Anon

    A form of conspicuous consumption; akin to paying big money for a work of art that isn't that much better than something similar, or a bottle wine that doesn't offer a much better drinking experience than one off the shelf.

    , @Art Deco
    @Anon

    The sort of person for whom $3,800 is sofa change. Their circle of friends consists of people for whom $3,800 is sofa change. The production is conversation fodder.

    , @Wilkey
    @Anon

    "What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical?"

    It's a play about a famous investment banking family. New York is full up with financial industry guys who make $1,900 before their first coffee break and another $1,900 before their lunchtime Swedish massage.

    Even then $1,900 may be an exaggeration. It may be what scalpers are asking but not what people are paying. I looked at tickets when the theatre still had them and the best seats, iirc, were going for about $450 apiece. Pricy but not too unreasonable if you're a serious theatre afficiando. I seriously considered dropping $900 for a pair, but it will be around in my city soon enough, on tour or a regional production, and probably not for more than about $125 each. Since the performers don't have to sing or dance it shouldn't be hard to find actors to do it justice.

    , @Vinteuil
    @Anon


    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical?
     
    Contra Art Deco, it's not just guys for whom a few thousand dollars is pocket change.

    I know one, personally, who shelled out something like that for him & his...husband...to go to Hamilton.

    Gay. Jewish. Long-time DC think-tank employee. Never-Trumper.

    But not rich.
  2. We interrupt this post for the most informative headline of the year:

    Presbyterian College chaplain elected president of Presbyterian College Chaplains Association

    Can anyone beat that?

    Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope…?

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Reg Cæsar

    Presbyterian college chaplain is such a funny phrase,it puts one in mind of "Florida Man" the benighted hero of the internet.
    PRESBYTERIAN COLLEGE CHAPLAIN STRIPS NAKED,URINATES ON KINDERGARTEN TEACHER

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    , @Matthew Kelly
    @Reg Cæsar

    Q: You know what you call a guy who points out the obvious?
    A: A guy who points out the obvious.

  3. Cohen’s not getting invited to any more dinner parties after this one. The Jewish involvement in slavery is so extensive that they try to completely ignore the topic. Instead, we get Gene Hackman showing the world how Jews were out to fight for civil liberties against those evil Christians.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @jbwilson24


    Instead, we get Gene Hackman showing the world how Jews were out to fight for civil liberties against those evil Christians.
     
    Hackman used to tail along with a slightly older relative whose classmates and best friends were Donald O'Connor and Dick Van Dyke.

    I can't see either of them in such a role. Or their other classmate, Bobby Short, playing the Negro victim.
  4. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    It’s not a musical, it’s a drama.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    It’s not a musical, it’s a drama.
     
    Oh, it will be. If it's a hit.

    Broadway has been completely out of ideas for quite a long time. Why else do they redo cheesy movies?

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    , @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    I must have a gruesome imagination. All I could think of was these weird Yiddish guys in costumes from the 1800s dancing a hora to an accordion while yelping rap songs about interest rates. Urg.

  5. Yes, but its not like Kate Smith founded a financial powerhouse that advanced the cause of her people in the world’s dominant economy.

  6. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    Why do people buy BMWs instead of Toyotas? Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    • Replies: @abigail_shapiro
    @Anon

    go be poor somewhere else.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Anonymous

    , @Hibernian
    @Anon

    I've heard high end German cars are very durable, but I don't think they're as much more durable than mid level Japanese cars to justify the price.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alden

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anon


    Both cars offer a similar driving experience.
     
    No. They don't.
  7. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    ‘What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There’s a megaton of music on YouTube that’s free, including work from many classic musicals…’

    Well, you know, white privilege. Well, umm, err…

  8. OT – Steve has frequently brought up the hugely disproportionate crime committed by African immigrants to Australia. Aussie Senator Anning is on it.

    • Replies: @Curious Person
    @istevefan

    But the Economist told me that that was a myth

    , @Lot
    @istevefan

    As long as those Sudanese are solid on the JQ, they will have friends and admirers on Unz.com

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    , @captflee
    @istevefan

    And yet further OT... in other Oz news

    I see that a baby was snatched by dingo(es) from a camper on Fraser Island, though quickly rescued by its father. Now that seems a case where possession of a firearm might prove efficacious, as only the baby's weight slowed the canid(s) sufficiently to allow the father to catch them and regain his child.

    It does seem, though, that the dingo is several orders of magnitude less dangerous than the dindu.

    That said, 40 years ago Fraser Island was beaut, mate. I recall fondly one particular night, strolling up the beach from Eurong under a full moon, with the wind streaming in off the Coral Sea, a lanky sheila by my side, young, strong, and not a care in the world. Where are you now, Sue H?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6941459/Dingo-snatched-14-month-old-baby-euthanised-never-found.html

  9. Great post, Steve.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
  10. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    It's not a musical, it's a drama.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon

    It’s not a musical, it’s a drama.

    Oh, it will be. If it’s a hit.

    Broadway has been completely out of ideas for quite a long time. Why else do they redo cheesy movies?

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    @Reg Cæsar

    Will they use Kate Smith's songs?

  11. It’s not like the Lehman Brothers were Kate Smith … Have some perspective, people! The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery. They didn’t go so far as to sing songs.

    It’s never wrong when the Victimest People on earth ever do it.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  12. New film called SKIN by Israeli director Guy Nattiv. Looks promising.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Clifford Brown

    ... promising more blood libel and Magic Negros.

    , @bomag
    @Clifford Brown

    A film portraying White supremacists as crime-prone and violent.

    I'm sure it will be mandatory viewing in all institutions world-wide.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Clifford Brown

    Surely this is cultural appropriation. Only a white gentile can write and direct a film about skin-heads.

    Maybe Nattiv should make a movie about Baruch Goldstein.

  13. Are Alexander Hamilton’s connections with slavery mentioned in Hamilton?

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Dave Pinsen

    > Are Alexander Hamilton’s connections with slavery mentioned in Hamilton?

    Lin-Manuel anticipated Steve’s theme that the 21st is the Century of Childish Thoughts. Alexander is an Immigrant from the Caribbean, hence black, or blackish, or inspired/uplifted by blacks.

    In his biography, Chernow discusses whites’ omnipresent and justified fear of slave revolts on sugar plantation islands, and mandatory enrollment of all able-bodied (white) males in militias. No wonder Hamilton was eager to leave that miserable paradise, Chernow quite reasonably suggests.

    , @notanon
    @Dave Pinsen

    probably not and for the same reason - connections to slavery are only used as a weapon against the other team

  14. You may wonder as you watch what the Lehmans were thinking as they went out to Alabama’s plantations to buy cotton — how they felt about slavery — but they never say

    Brother Cohen would rather not speculate about Lehman Brothers comfort level:

  15. What a double standard. Seven slaves, but no mention of it. Kate Smith only owned three slaves, one of which she later sold to Jack Benny.

  16. …….and the introduction of slavery might well have taken the play in another direction.

    Good propagandists ( political/commercial) NEVER allow the narrative to be diverted. Good work Sam/Stefano.

  17. Turns out the song is a lament in the tradition of “Old Man River”, about blacks shouldering the burden and teaching whites joy (an early hint of that trope, beloved of the Narrative).

  18. @Anon
    @Anon

    Why do people buy BMWs instead of Toyotas? Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    Replies: @abigail_shapiro, @Hibernian, @Buzz Mohawk

    go be poor somewhere else.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @abigail_shapiro

    I understand he drives a Lexus.

    , @Anonymous
    @abigail_shapiro

    go be poor somewhere else.

    LOL.

    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don't have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  19. @jbwilson24
    Cohen's not getting invited to any more dinner parties after this one. The Jewish involvement in slavery is so extensive that they try to completely ignore the topic. Instead, we get Gene Hackman showing the world how Jews were out to fight for civil liberties against those evil Christians.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Instead, we get Gene Hackman showing the world how Jews were out to fight for civil liberties against those evil Christians.

    Hackman used to tail along with a slightly older relative whose classmates and best friends were Donald O’Connor and Dick Van Dyke.

    I can’t see either of them in such a role. Or their other classmate, Bobby Short, playing the Negro victim.

  20. It is an astounding play with only one fault

    I’m telling you, it’s not a bug! It’s a feature.

    Now be quiet already, Schmuel.

  21. @Reg Cæsar
    We interrupt this post for the most informative headline of the year:


    Presbyterian College chaplain elected president of Presbyterian College Chaplains Association

    Can anyone beat that?

    Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope...?

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Matthew Kelly

    Presbyterian college chaplain is such a funny phrase,it puts one in mind of “Florida Man” the benighted hero of the internet.
    PRESBYTERIAN COLLEGE CHAPLAIN STRIPS NAKED,URINATES ON KINDERGARTEN TEACHER

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Father O'Hara

    Where is that on Pornhub?

  22. A company founded by talented European immigrants of yesteryear and ultimately brought to ruin by untalented Mesoamerican immigrants of today.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @JimB

    I don't think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as 'Mesoamerican' immigrants, talented or untalented.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  23. @istevefan
    OT - Steve has frequently brought up the hugely disproportionate crime committed by African immigrants to Australia. Aussie Senator Anning is on it.

    https://twitter.com/fraser_anning/status/1118479041680400384

    Replies: @Curious Person, @Lot, @captflee

    But the Economist told me that that was a myth

  24. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    It's not a musical, it's a drama.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon

    I must have a gruesome imagination. All I could think of was these weird Yiddish guys in costumes from the 1800s dancing a hora to an accordion while yelping rap songs about interest rates. Urg.

  25. The financial crash in 2008 – it was a purification of Wall-Street. That was behind that curtain of the whole meltdown: The world got freed of the Slave-Trade bank it suffered so – innumerously -from.

  26. @Reg Cæsar
    We interrupt this post for the most informative headline of the year:


    Presbyterian College chaplain elected president of Presbyterian College Chaplains Association

    Can anyone beat that?

    Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope...?

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @Matthew Kelly

    Q: You know what you call a guy who points out the obvious?
    A: A guy who points out the obvious.

  27. @istevefan
    OT - Steve has frequently brought up the hugely disproportionate crime committed by African immigrants to Australia. Aussie Senator Anning is on it.

    https://twitter.com/fraser_anning/status/1118479041680400384

    Replies: @Curious Person, @Lot, @captflee

    As long as those Sudanese are solid on the JQ, they will have friends and admirers on Unz.com

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Lot

    Oh come on, you that's- uh, exactly right.

  28. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    Sounds like a better business than even Hamilton, paying only three actors versus a big cast and musicians.

    I’ve never been to a musical, do they have bands or just a good sound system to play the music?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Lot

    Live musicians in an orchestra pit.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Lot

    The Met Opera orchestra has over 70 musicians. Last time I was there they had five harp players.

  29. @Lot
    @Anon

    Sounds like a better business than even Hamilton, paying only three actors versus a big cast and musicians.

    I’ve never been to a musical, do they have bands or just a good sound system to play the music?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jim Don Bob

    Live musicians in an orchestra pit.

  30. @abigail_shapiro
    @Anon

    go be poor somewhere else.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Anonymous

    I understand he drives a Lexus.

  31. @Father O'Hara
    @Reg Cæsar

    Presbyterian college chaplain is such a funny phrase,it puts one in mind of "Florida Man" the benighted hero of the internet.
    PRESBYTERIAN COLLEGE CHAPLAIN STRIPS NAKED,URINATES ON KINDERGARTEN TEACHER

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Where is that on Pornhub?

  32. @Lot
    @istevefan

    As long as those Sudanese are solid on the JQ, they will have friends and admirers on Unz.com

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Oh come on, you that’s- uh, exactly right.

  33. “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” was a popular song written by Ray Henderson nee Brost and Lew Brown nee Brownstein.

    Undoubtedly the intent of the song’s writers was lift up the dark people. Sadly this noble hope was dashed when the song fell into the hands of Kate Smith and Paul Robeson.

    Brost and Brownstein did write the underappreciated ditty “Just Mo Reasons to Pull the Plug on De Box and Say Goodbye to Sportzball.” Perhaps it’ll be a hit someday soon.

  34. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    A form of conspicuous consumption; akin to paying big money for a work of art that isn’t that much better than something similar, or a bottle wine that doesn’t offer a much better drinking experience than one off the shelf.

  35. @Clifford Brown
    New film called SKIN by Israeli director Guy Nattiv. Looks promising.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uc30b4kZws

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @bomag, @Mr. Anon

    … promising more blood libel and Magic Negros.

  36. @Clifford Brown
    New film called SKIN by Israeli director Guy Nattiv. Looks promising.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uc30b4kZws

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @bomag, @Mr. Anon

    A film portraying White supremacists as crime-prone and violent.

    I’m sure it will be mandatory viewing in all institutions world-wide.

  37. @Anon
    @Anon

    Why do people buy BMWs instead of Toyotas? Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    Replies: @abigail_shapiro, @Hibernian, @Buzz Mohawk

    I’ve heard high end German cars are very durable, but I don’t think they’re as much more durable than mid level Japanese cars to justify the price.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hibernian

    Not any more. Back in the day, Mercedes diesel taxis would clatter around the 3rd world for a million miles. but modern Mercedes and BMWs are laden with electronics and gizmos that will break the second the warranty runs out and leave you with a giant repair bill. BMW 5 series loses the greatest % of its value of any car for this reason. Toyota/ Lexus have legendary reliability - nothing ever breaks.

    , @Alden
    @Hibernian

    They’re very durable, but repairs and parts cost a fortune. BMW seats are a lot less comfortable for long drives than the Mercedes. BMWs are easy for parallel right parking.

  38. @JimB
    A company founded by talented European immigrants of yesteryear and ultimately brought to ruin by untalented Mesoamerican immigrants of today.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I don’t think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as ‘Mesoamerican’ immigrants, talented or untalented.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    I don’t think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as ‘Mesoamerican’ immigrants, talented or untalented.
     
    He was referring to the borrowers of the mortgage debt that helped to blow up Lehman.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  39. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    The sort of person for whom $3,800 is sofa change. Their circle of friends consists of people for whom $3,800 is sofa change. The production is conversation fodder.

  40. The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn’t. Given the number and given their owners’ urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Art Deco

    there's a stat i saw (dunno if true) that a very large percentage of Jews in the old south owned a few household slaves - i assume for sabbath reasons.

    , @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    They didn't get rich off their 7 slaves, which as you surmise were probably their household staff. But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    , @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn’t. Given the number and given their owners’ urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.
     
    They were cotton traders in Alabama, dear fellow. They got rich off slavery.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Imbecile.

  41. Did they own slaves and work them harshly, cruelly, inhumanely? If so, terbul, terbul.

    But, did they buy and sell slaves using sophisticated futures analysis, such as this female will yield a dozen new hands in eleven years? If so, then they are to be congratulated for advancing our financial system.

  42. @Dave Pinsen
    Are Alexander Hamilton's connections with slavery mentioned in Hamilton?

    Replies: @ic1000, @notanon

    > Are Alexander Hamilton’s connections with slavery mentioned in Hamilton?

    Lin-Manuel anticipated Steve’s theme that the 21st is the Century of Childish Thoughts. Alexander is an Immigrant from the Caribbean, hence black, or blackish, or inspired/uplifted by blacks.

    In his biography, Chernow discusses whites’ omnipresent and justified fear of slave revolts on sugar plantation islands, and mandatory enrollment of all able-bodied (white) males in militias. No wonder Hamilton was eager to leave that miserable paradise, Chernow quite reasonably suggests.

  43. @Dave Pinsen
    Are Alexander Hamilton's connections with slavery mentioned in Hamilton?

    Replies: @ic1000, @notanon

    probably not and for the same reason – connections to slavery are only used as a weapon against the other team

  44. @Art Deco
    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn't. Given the number and given their owners' urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    Replies: @notanon, @Jack D, @syonredux, @obwandiyag

    there’s a stat i saw (dunno if true) that a very large percentage of Jews in the old south owned a few household slaves – i assume for sabbath reasons.

  45. @Lot
    @Anon

    Sounds like a better business than even Hamilton, paying only three actors versus a big cast and musicians.

    I’ve never been to a musical, do they have bands or just a good sound system to play the music?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jim Don Bob

    The Met Opera orchestra has over 70 musicians. Last time I was there they had five harp players.

  46. @Hibernian
    @Anon

    I've heard high end German cars are very durable, but I don't think they're as much more durable than mid level Japanese cars to justify the price.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alden

    Not any more. Back in the day, Mercedes diesel taxis would clatter around the 3rd world for a million miles. but modern Mercedes and BMWs are laden with electronics and gizmos that will break the second the warranty runs out and leave you with a giant repair bill. BMW 5 series loses the greatest % of its value of any car for this reason. Toyota/ Lexus have legendary reliability – nothing ever breaks.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  47. @Art Deco
    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn't. Given the number and given their owners' urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    Replies: @notanon, @Jack D, @syonredux, @obwandiyag

    They didn’t get rich off their 7 slaves, which as you surmise were probably their household staff. But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    Exactly.

    Now apply the same rule to plays produced by other Americans.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.
     
    And Deutsche Bank didn't actually commit any war crimes, they just helped finance the regime that did, so I assume you'd have no problem with a play about 1930s era DB that neglected to mention any of that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Inverness

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    The use of slave labor redistributed income from workers to proprietors. I doubt people making their living off of distribution and price arbitrage were seeing much of that.

    Replies: @syonredux

  48. @istevefan
    OT - Steve has frequently brought up the hugely disproportionate crime committed by African immigrants to Australia. Aussie Senator Anning is on it.

    https://twitter.com/fraser_anning/status/1118479041680400384

    Replies: @Curious Person, @Lot, @captflee

    And yet further OT… in other Oz news

    I see that a baby was snatched by dingo(es) from a camper on Fraser Island, though quickly rescued by its father. Now that seems a case where possession of a firearm might prove efficacious, as only the baby’s weight slowed the canid(s) sufficiently to allow the father to catch them and regain his child.

    It does seem, though, that the dingo is several orders of magnitude less dangerous than the dindu.

    That said, 40 years ago Fraser Island was beaut, mate. I recall fondly one particular night, strolling up the beach from Eurong under a full moon, with the wind streaming in off the Coral Sea, a lanky sheila by my side, young, strong, and not a care in the world. Where are you now, Sue H?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6941459/Dingo-snatched-14-month-old-baby-euthanised-never-found.html

  49. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    They didn't get rich off their 7 slaves, which as you surmise were probably their household staff. But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    Exactly.

    Now apply the same rule to plays produced by other Americans.

  50. @Hibernian
    @Anon

    I've heard high end German cars are very durable, but I don't think they're as much more durable than mid level Japanese cars to justify the price.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alden

    They’re very durable, but repairs and parts cost a fortune. BMW seats are a lot less comfortable for long drives than the Mercedes. BMWs are easy for parallel right parking.

  51. Kate Smith was probably the most financially successful lesbian in popular media until Jody Foster.

  52. It’s perfectly fine that the play doesn’t mention slavery. You shouldn’t have to drag that into every story. But you have to assume that the absence of its mention would be noticed a lot more if the subjects were considerably more gentile. If the Lehman brothers had been Lutheran the playwrite and producers would be catching hell.

    And the “limited run” bit seems quite the joke. If the play is a real hit it will be back soon enough, and maybe even go on tour. No reason to pay $1,900 unless YOU HAVE TO SEE IT NOW!

  53. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    “What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical?”

    It’s a play about a famous investment banking family. New York is full up with financial industry guys who make $1,900 before their first coffee break and another $1,900 before their lunchtime Swedish massage.

    Even then $1,900 may be an exaggeration. It may be what scalpers are asking but not what people are paying. I looked at tickets when the theatre still had them and the best seats, iirc, were going for about $450 apiece. Pricy but not too unreasonable if you’re a serious theatre afficiando. I seriously considered dropping $900 for a pair, but it will be around in my city soon enough, on tour or a regional production, and probably not for more than about $125 each. Since the performers don’t have to sing or dance it shouldn’t be hard to find actors to do it justice.

  54. @Clifford Brown
    New film called SKIN by Israeli director Guy Nattiv. Looks promising.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uc30b4kZws

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @bomag, @Mr. Anon

    Surely this is cultural appropriation. Only a white gentile can write and direct a film about skin-heads.

    Maybe Nattiv should make a movie about Baruch Goldstein.

  55. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    They didn't get rich off their 7 slaves, which as you surmise were probably their household staff. But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    And Deutsche Bank didn’t actually commit any war crimes, they just helped finance the regime that did, so I assume you’d have no problem with a play about 1930s era DB that neglected to mention any of that.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    I would assume that buying German government bonds was a pretty generalized practice among European banks except where it was prohibited by law or inhibited by exchange controls.

    , @Inverness
    @Mr. Anon

    Indeed, it's remarkable how contingent morality can be.

  56. @Art Deco
    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn't. Given the number and given their owners' urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    Replies: @notanon, @Jack D, @syonredux, @obwandiyag

    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn’t. Given the number and given their owners’ urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    They were cotton traders in Alabama, dear fellow. They got rich off slavery.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    I'm not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Anon, @syonredux, @Anonymous

  57. @Art Deco
    @JimB

    I don't think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as 'Mesoamerican' immigrants, talented or untalented.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I don’t think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as ‘Mesoamerican’ immigrants, talented or untalented.

    He was referring to the borrowers of the mortgage debt that helped to blow up Lehman.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    I don't think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Inverness

  58. The whole Lehman Brothers play business could make one wonder. Has there ever been a one man play about J.P. Morgan? Or Jakob Fugger? Maybe gentiles just don’t care that much about banking. At least not enough to lionize bankers. But write a play about Jewish investment bankers that appeals to the vanity of same, and put it on in a city full of Jewish investment bankers, and it’s a big deal. There certainly does seem to be a market for that.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    Boo hoo

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Mr. Anon

    Plays? Dunno, but have you ever heard of a movie called It's a Wonderful Life?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  59. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    They didn't get rich off their 7 slaves, which as you surmise were probably their household staff. But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    The use of slave labor redistributed income from workers to proprietors. I doubt people making their living off of distribution and price arbitrage were seeing much of that.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    The use of slave labor redistributed income from workers to proprietors. I doubt people making their living off of distribution and price arbitrage were seeing much of that.
     
    Pity the poor Lehman bros....struggling to make a living off trading cotton that was picked by slave labor....
  60. @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn’t. Given the number and given their owners’ urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.
     
    They were cotton traders in Alabama, dear fellow. They got rich off slavery.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Cotton is slavery you imbecile. Period. All non-imbeciles know this.

    Nobody's gonna be your google monkey. Especially when you are the only one who doesn't know common knowledge.

    Replies: @Patricus, @Art Deco

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.
     
    You are nobody's dear fellow.

    Twit.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.
     
    Don't get hissy.....

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.
     
    Dunno. The Lehman boys seem to have done all right for themselves....

    Lehman Brothers, a former Fortune 500 global financial services firm, was founded in 1850 in Montgomery, Alabama, by German Jewish immigrants Henry, Emanuel, and Mayer Lehman. Starting out as a general dry goods store in Montgomery, the business evolved into a cotton brokerage firm and opened an office in New York in 1858. Its activities were interrupted by the Civil War but resumed when the Lehman brothers moved to New York, where they helped establish the Cotton Exchange.


    Cotton was Alabama's main export crop in the 1850s, and the Lehmans agreed to accept the commodity from local planters in exchange for merchandise. This practice led the Lehmans to launch a separate business trading in cotton. Over the next several years, their cotton trading and brokerage business grew so much that in 1858 Emanuel Lehman opened an office in New York, which had become the nation's commodity trading center.

    http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-2160


    If poor Kate Smith can get un-personned for singing a song......
     


     

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    They got rich selling a product farmed with slave labor. It doesn't matter how "slim" their "profit margins" were. They obviously didn't get rich by selling at a loss.

    In my humble opinion the show may be honest in a certain respect: if it's told from their point of view then it may be honest in talking about slavery because they didn't give a rat's ass about slaves. It never crossed their minds.

    That's the mean-spirited point of view. The more forgiving possibility is that it may have troubled them a bit but they, like so many others, felt that it was a necessary evil and felt helpless to do anything about it.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  61. @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    I don’t think Richard Fuld and Joseph Gregory qualify as ‘Mesoamerican’ immigrants, talented or untalented.
     
    He was referring to the borrowers of the mortgage debt that helped to blow up Lehman.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I don’t think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    I don’t think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.
     
    You evidently misunderstood JimB's point. Unsurprising. You are stupid. You misunderstand a lot.
    , @Inverness
    @Art Deco

    Some might call that a trivial and pedantic objection, because there would always be someone to purchase rotten paper, up to and emphatically including the U.S. taxpayer especially where mortgage debt is concerned.

    There's more than enough blame to go around. The tragedy comes when the wealthy and powerful rig the system (and especially the laws) in their own favor. So to that extent I agree with you.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  62. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.
     
    And Deutsche Bank didn't actually commit any war crimes, they just helped finance the regime that did, so I assume you'd have no problem with a play about 1930s era DB that neglected to mention any of that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Inverness

    I would assume that buying German government bonds was a pretty generalized practice among European banks except where it was prohibited by law or inhibited by exchange controls.

  63. @Mr. Anon
    The whole Lehman Brothers play business could make one wonder. Has there ever been a one man play about J.P. Morgan? Or Jakob Fugger? Maybe gentiles just don't care that much about banking. At least not enough to lionize bankers. But write a play about Jewish investment bankers that appeals to the vanity of same, and put it on in a city full of Jewish investment bankers, and it's a big deal. There certainly does seem to be a market for that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Buzz Mohawk

    Boo hoo

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco

    One kind of play nobody has written is a play about old irrelevant librarian nobodies who try to make up for their meaningless lives by posting pedantic drivel on the internet.

    Like Rodney Dangerfield, you just can't get no respect.

  64. @Art Deco
    The Lehman Brothers just got rich off slavery.

    Unless they were trading slaves, no they didn't. Given the number and given their owners' urban occupation, its a reasonable wager those were household slaves.

    Replies: @notanon, @Jack D, @syonredux, @obwandiyag

    Imbecile.

  65. @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    I'm not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Anon, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    Cotton is slavery you imbecile. Period. All non-imbeciles know this.

    Nobody’s gonna be your google monkey. Especially when you are the only one who doesn’t know common knowledge.

    • Replies: @Patricus
    @obwandiyag

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves. There were plantation owners with hundreds, even thousands, of slaves but most cotton was produced by free men, women and children on small plots of land. After the war there were no slaves but cotton production soon surpassed pre war levels.

    Cotton is produced today with little slave labor, at least in the US.

    "Common knowledge"-- two of the dumbest words in English.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @obwandiyag

    , @Art Deco
    @obwandiyag

    No, cotton is cotton. It can be produced with slave labor, with free labor, and with high or low levels of mechanization.

    The consumer, the retail merchant, the garment manufacturer, the wholesale distributor, and the commodity broker are all implicated. The question is who is so implicated they get cited for a declict. Tough one.

    Replies: @obwandiyag

  66. @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    I don't think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Inverness

    I don’t think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.

    You evidently misunderstood JimB’s point. Unsurprising. You are stupid. You misunderstand a lot.

  67. @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    Boo hoo

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    One kind of play nobody has written is a play about old irrelevant librarian nobodies who try to make up for their meaningless lives by posting pedantic drivel on the internet.

    Like Rodney Dangerfield, you just can’t get no respect.

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  68. @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    I'm not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Anon, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.

    You are nobody’s dear fellow.

    Twit.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Mr. Anon

    I'm a fan.

  69. @Mr. Anon
    The whole Lehman Brothers play business could make one wonder. Has there ever been a one man play about J.P. Morgan? Or Jakob Fugger? Maybe gentiles just don't care that much about banking. At least not enough to lionize bankers. But write a play about Jewish investment bankers that appeals to the vanity of same, and put it on in a city full of Jewish investment bankers, and it's a big deal. There certainly does seem to be a market for that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Buzz Mohawk

    Plays? Dunno, but have you ever heard of a movie called It’s a Wonderful Life?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Plays? Dunno, but have you ever heard of a movie called It’s a Wonderful Life?
     
    Your point is apt. That is one. Of course, they weren't very good bankers.
  70. @Anon
    @Anon

    Why do people buy BMWs instead of Toyotas? Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    Replies: @abigail_shapiro, @Hibernian, @Buzz Mohawk

    Both cars offer a similar driving experience.

    No. They don’t.

  71. Couldn’t help but recall the play “Taking Sides” about the German conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler and his alleged ties with the Nazi regime. He was and remains the greatest conductor who ever lived (with all due respect to Toscanini). “Taking Sides” is something of a mirror image of “The Lehman Trilogy”, with the former devoted almost exclusively to Furtwängler’s alleged Nazi sympathies (he in fact despised them) as opposed to his artistry and the latter devoted to the Lehmans rise to prominence in America while devoid of any reference to slave holding (uh, a way of life in the antebellum South). In the former case, the fact that Furtwängler arranged to have Jewish musicians leave Germany is too inconvenient and doesn’t fit “the narrative”–ditto for the Lehmans as slave holders.

  72. @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    It’s not a musical, it’s a drama.
     
    Oh, it will be. If it's a hit.

    Broadway has been completely out of ideas for quite a long time. Why else do they redo cheesy movies?

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    Will they use Kate Smith’s songs?

  73. syonredux [AKA "dr syon"] says:
    @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    I'm not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Anon, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.

    Don’t get hissy…..

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Dunno. The Lehman boys seem to have done all right for themselves….

    Lehman Brothers, a former Fortune 500 global financial services firm, was founded in 1850 in Montgomery, Alabama, by German Jewish immigrants Henry, Emanuel, and Mayer Lehman. Starting out as a general dry goods store in Montgomery, the business evolved into a cotton brokerage firm and opened an office in New York in 1858. Its activities were interrupted by the Civil War but resumed when the Lehman brothers moved to New York, where they helped establish the Cotton Exchange.

    Cotton was Alabama’s main export crop in the 1850s, and the Lehmans agreed to accept the commodity from local planters in exchange for merchandise. This practice led the Lehmans to launch a separate business trading in cotton. Over the next several years, their cotton trading and brokerage business grew so much that in 1858 Emanuel Lehman opened an office in New York, which had become the nation’s commodity trading center.

    http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-2160

    If poor Kate Smith can get un-personned for singing a song……

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    Dunno.

    That's right, you don't know.


    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It's difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon

  74. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    But the cotton that they traded in was produced mostly with slave labor.

    The use of slave labor redistributed income from workers to proprietors. I doubt people making their living off of distribution and price arbitrage were seeing much of that.

    Replies: @syonredux

    The use of slave labor redistributed income from workers to proprietors. I doubt people making their living off of distribution and price arbitrage were seeing much of that.

    Pity the poor Lehman bros….struggling to make a living off trading cotton that was picked by slave labor….

  75. @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.
     
    Don't get hissy.....

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.
     
    Dunno. The Lehman boys seem to have done all right for themselves....

    Lehman Brothers, a former Fortune 500 global financial services firm, was founded in 1850 in Montgomery, Alabama, by German Jewish immigrants Henry, Emanuel, and Mayer Lehman. Starting out as a general dry goods store in Montgomery, the business evolved into a cotton brokerage firm and opened an office in New York in 1858. Its activities were interrupted by the Civil War but resumed when the Lehman brothers moved to New York, where they helped establish the Cotton Exchange.


    Cotton was Alabama's main export crop in the 1850s, and the Lehmans agreed to accept the commodity from local planters in exchange for merchandise. This practice led the Lehmans to launch a separate business trading in cotton. Over the next several years, their cotton trading and brokerage business grew so much that in 1858 Emanuel Lehman opened an office in New York, which had become the nation's commodity trading center.

    http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-2160


    If poor Kate Smith can get un-personned for singing a song......
     


     

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Dunno.

    That’s right, you don’t know.

    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    That’s right, you don’t know.

    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.
     
    .....And yet the Lehman bros prospered......

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.
     
    Are you stupid, or just a shameless liar?

    A guy who runs a hot-dog cart 12 hours a day doesn't make much money from selling any given hot-dog, but he makes ALL his money by selling hot-dogs. If a guy makes all his income from brokering slave-harvested cotton, then ALL of his income comes from that, no matter how small the mark-up might be on any given transaction.

    I don't know that the Lehman Brothers made all of their money from cotton, but given that King Cotton was Alabama's leading cash crop, they probably made a fair amount of it from cotton.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  76. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @abigail_shapiro
    @Anon

    go be poor somewhere else.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Anonymous

    go be poor somewhere else.

    LOL.

    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don’t have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don’t have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.
     
    Modern European cars are maintenance sluts. You would think that in exchange for the high initial price you would get a better built car but you don't. Reason is the buyers mostly don't care. They buy new and dump them in one to three years.

    Replies: @Jack D

  77. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    I'm not your dear fellow, twit.

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Anon, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    They got rich selling a product farmed with slave labor. It doesn’t matter how “slim” their “profit margins” were. They obviously didn’t get rich by selling at a loss.

    In my humble opinion the show may be honest in a certain respect: if it’s told from their point of view then it may be honest in talking about slavery because they didn’t give a rat’s ass about slaves. It never crossed their minds.

    That’s the mean-spirited point of view. The more forgiving possibility is that it may have troubled them a bit but they, like so many others, felt that it was a necessary evil and felt helpless to do anything about it.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    No, they get rich off of small-markups. Exactly what they're selling is immaterial. You could object that they're promoting vice, but cotton isn't crystal meth so there isn't some delict from participating in its distribution.

  78. @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    I don't think the mesoamerican immigrants put a gun to the heads of Fuld and Gregory and told them to buy mezzanine tranches of collateralized debt obligations.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Inverness

    Some might call that a trivial and pedantic objection, because there would always be someone to purchase rotten paper, up to and emphatically including the U.S. taxpayer especially where mortgage debt is concerned.

    There’s more than enough blame to go around. The tragedy comes when the wealthy and powerful rig the system (and especially the laws) in their own favor. So to that extent I agree with you.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Inverness


    Some might call that a trivial and pedantic objection,......
     
    If not for trivial and pedantic objections, Art Deco would have nothing to post at all.
  79. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    We discussed this the last time this play was discussed. If you want to introduce slavery into the Lehman story, write your own damn play.
     
    And Deutsche Bank didn't actually commit any war crimes, they just helped finance the regime that did, so I assume you'd have no problem with a play about 1930s era DB that neglected to mention any of that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Inverness

    Indeed, it’s remarkable how contingent morality can be.

  80. syonredux [AKA "dr syon"] says:
    @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    Dunno.

    That's right, you don't know.


    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It's difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon

    That’s right, you don’t know.

    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    …..And yet the Lehman bros prospered……

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    And they continued to prosper for another century in the business of finance and brokerage. Because their prosperity was not dependent on a particular production process.

  81. @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Cotton is slavery you imbecile. Period. All non-imbeciles know this.

    Nobody's gonna be your google monkey. Especially when you are the only one who doesn't know common knowledge.

    Replies: @Patricus, @Art Deco

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves. There were plantation owners with hundreds, even thousands, of slaves but most cotton was produced by free men, women and children on small plots of land. After the war there were no slaves but cotton production soon surpassed pre war levels.

    Cotton is produced today with little slave labor, at least in the US.

    “Common knowledge”– two of the dumbest words in English.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Patricus

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves.

    No.

    , @obwandiyag
    @Patricus

    Even Sailer calls you out for the imbecile liar you are.

  82. @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    I’m not your dear fellow, twit.
     
    You are nobody's dear fellow.

    Twit.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    I’m a fan.

  83. @Patricus
    @obwandiyag

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves. There were plantation owners with hundreds, even thousands, of slaves but most cotton was produced by free men, women and children on small plots of land. After the war there were no slaves but cotton production soon surpassed pre war levels.

    Cotton is produced today with little slave labor, at least in the US.

    "Common knowledge"-- two of the dumbest words in English.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @obwandiyag

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves.

    No.

  84. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @abigail_shapiro

    go be poor somewhere else.

    LOL.

    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don't have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don’t have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.

    Modern European cars are maintenance sluts. You would think that in exchange for the high initial price you would get a better built car but you don’t. Reason is the buyers mostly don’t care. They buy new and dump them in one to three years.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    No, they don't buy them at all. They lease them, typically for 3 years (which is also the length of the warranty) and don't worry about anything breaking. It's the future owners who have to deal with the repair bills. These cars take a massive hit in value when they come off lease because of the discount for the future repair bills and also because there's no prestige in driving a 4 yr old car.

  85. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Mr. Anon

    Plays? Dunno, but have you ever heard of a movie called It's a Wonderful Life?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Plays? Dunno, but have you ever heard of a movie called It’s a Wonderful Life?

    Your point is apt. That is one. Of course, they weren’t very good bankers.

  86. @Inverness
    @Art Deco

    Some might call that a trivial and pedantic objection, because there would always be someone to purchase rotten paper, up to and emphatically including the U.S. taxpayer especially where mortgage debt is concerned.

    There's more than enough blame to go around. The tragedy comes when the wealthy and powerful rig the system (and especially the laws) in their own favor. So to that extent I agree with you.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Some might call that a trivial and pedantic objection,……

    If not for trivial and pedantic objections, Art Deco would have nothing to post at all.

  87. @Anon
    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical? There's a megaton of music on YouTube that's free, including work from many classic musicals.

    Some people just don't know how to manage their finances.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @Lot, @bomag, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Vinteuil

    What sort of person spends $1,900 on a seat ticket for a musical?

    Contra Art Deco, it’s not just guys for whom a few thousand dollars is pocket change.

    I know one, personally, who shelled out something like that for him & his…husband…to go to Hamilton.

    Gay. Jewish. Long-time DC think-tank employee. Never-Trumper.

    But not rich.

  88. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    There are plenty of poor people driving Beemers, and plenty of rich people driving Hondas and Toyotas. If you are poor (and in my opinion if you don’t have serious stocks, assets and money in the bank then you are poor) one of the easiest ways to stay poor is by buying shitty expensive European cars with high maintenance and repair bills. The extra cost of ownership for those cars could easily pay for a couple of vacations.
     
    Modern European cars are maintenance sluts. You would think that in exchange for the high initial price you would get a better built car but you don't. Reason is the buyers mostly don't care. They buy new and dump them in one to three years.

    Replies: @Jack D

    No, they don’t buy them at all. They lease them, typically for 3 years (which is also the length of the warranty) and don’t worry about anything breaking. It’s the future owners who have to deal with the repair bills. These cars take a massive hit in value when they come off lease because of the discount for the future repair bills and also because there’s no prestige in driving a 4 yr old car.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  89. @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    Dunno.

    That's right, you don't know.


    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It's difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon

    It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.

    Are you stupid, or just a shameless liar?

    A guy who runs a hot-dog cart 12 hours a day doesn’t make much money from selling any given hot-dog, but he makes ALL his money by selling hot-dogs. If a guy makes all his income from brokering slave-harvested cotton, then ALL of his income comes from that, no matter how small the mark-up might be on any given transaction.

    I don’t know that the Lehman Brothers made all of their money from cotton, but given that King Cotton was Alabama’s leading cash crop, they probably made a fair amount of it from cotton.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mr. Anon

    Again, the use of slave labor is utile to the producer because he redistributes benefits from the worker to himself. This has some effect on the supply schedule for the product in question, so some part of the appropriated benefit will be transmitted to downstream parties. It only benefits the broker or distributor if the market dynamics allow for a higher mark-up. We can see, theoretically, the original producer will be willing to sell for a lower price, but by the same token, we should expect lower retail prices as well. The question at hand is how much of these is distributed to various intervening parties (who would be buying at lower prices and selling at lower prices).

  90. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Put it in graphs and equations how much surplus is transferred to downstream consumers of cotton from slave labor production v. free labor production. Then recall that distributional enterprises have slim profit margins.

    They got rich selling a product farmed with slave labor. It doesn't matter how "slim" their "profit margins" were. They obviously didn't get rich by selling at a loss.

    In my humble opinion the show may be honest in a certain respect: if it's told from their point of view then it may be honest in talking about slavery because they didn't give a rat's ass about slaves. It never crossed their minds.

    That's the mean-spirited point of view. The more forgiving possibility is that it may have troubled them a bit but they, like so many others, felt that it was a necessary evil and felt helpless to do anything about it.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    No, they get rich off of small-markups. Exactly what they’re selling is immaterial. You could object that they’re promoting vice, but cotton isn’t crystal meth so there isn’t some delict from participating in its distribution.

  91. @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    That’s right, you don’t know.

    The price of the cotton to the consumer or to the industrial concern purchasing supplies is going to be affected by the mode of production, so some indeterminate benefit is transmitted to these purchasers. It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.
     
    .....And yet the Lehman bros prospered......

    Replies: @Art Deco

    And they continued to prosper for another century in the business of finance and brokerage. Because their prosperity was not dependent on a particular production process.

  92. @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Cotton is slavery you imbecile. Period. All non-imbeciles know this.

    Nobody's gonna be your google monkey. Especially when you are the only one who doesn't know common knowledge.

    Replies: @Patricus, @Art Deco

    No, cotton is cotton. It can be produced with slave labor, with free labor, and with high or low levels of mechanization.

    The consumer, the retail merchant, the garment manufacturer, the wholesale distributor, and the commodity broker are all implicated. The question is who is so implicated they get cited for a declict. Tough one.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Blahblahblah. The story of cotton is the story of slavery. Everybody who is intelligent knows this. Even Sailer. And the story of you is of a phony idiot.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  93. I recall an episode of Bizarre Foods in which the host attends a Passover celebration hosted by Savannah’s oldest synagogue, which dated from the early part of the 19th century.

    “Oh, yeah,” I thought, “those early synagogue members making money trading in rice, sorghum, cotton and slaves.”

  94. @Patricus
    @obwandiyag

    Most cotton production, before the Civil War, was done by small family farmers with no slaves. There were plantation owners with hundreds, even thousands, of slaves but most cotton was produced by free men, women and children on small plots of land. After the war there were no slaves but cotton production soon surpassed pre war levels.

    Cotton is produced today with little slave labor, at least in the US.

    "Common knowledge"-- two of the dumbest words in English.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @obwandiyag

    Even Sailer calls you out for the imbecile liar you are.

  95. @Art Deco
    @obwandiyag

    No, cotton is cotton. It can be produced with slave labor, with free labor, and with high or low levels of mechanization.

    The consumer, the retail merchant, the garment manufacturer, the wholesale distributor, and the commodity broker are all implicated. The question is who is so implicated they get cited for a declict. Tough one.

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    Blahblahblah. The story of cotton is the story of slavery. Everybody who is intelligent knows this. Even Sailer. And the story of you is of a phony idiot.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @obwandiyag

    Slavery made cotton profitable where it otherwise might not have been, but that has turned out to be some damned expensive cotton for our society in the long run.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  96. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag
    @Art Deco

    Blahblahblah. The story of cotton is the story of slavery. Everybody who is intelligent knows this. Even Sailer. And the story of you is of a phony idiot.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Slavery made cotton profitable where it otherwise might not have been, but that has turned out to be some damned expensive cotton for our society in the long run.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    https://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/earl2.pdf


    There was wretched disruption during the war and after, but by 1872/73 production levels at 3.9 million bales exceeded that of every antebellum year bar two (record production was 4.86 million bales in 1859 / 60). You could have a robust cotton industry w/0 slave labor, but perhaps not as profitable or productive.

  97. @Mr. Anon
    @Art Deco


    It’s difficult to see how a broker or wholesale distributor appropriates much of any of this. They earn their living from small mark-ups.
     
    Are you stupid, or just a shameless liar?

    A guy who runs a hot-dog cart 12 hours a day doesn't make much money from selling any given hot-dog, but he makes ALL his money by selling hot-dogs. If a guy makes all his income from brokering slave-harvested cotton, then ALL of his income comes from that, no matter how small the mark-up might be on any given transaction.

    I don't know that the Lehman Brothers made all of their money from cotton, but given that King Cotton was Alabama's leading cash crop, they probably made a fair amount of it from cotton.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Again, the use of slave labor is utile to the producer because he redistributes benefits from the worker to himself. This has some effect on the supply schedule for the product in question, so some part of the appropriated benefit will be transmitted to downstream parties. It only benefits the broker or distributor if the market dynamics allow for a higher mark-up. We can see, theoretically, the original producer will be willing to sell for a lower price, but by the same token, we should expect lower retail prices as well. The question at hand is how much of these is distributed to various intervening parties (who would be buying at lower prices and selling at lower prices).

  98. @Anonymous
    @obwandiyag

    Slavery made cotton profitable where it otherwise might not have been, but that has turned out to be some damned expensive cotton for our society in the long run.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    https://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/earl2.pdf

    There was wretched disruption during the war and after, but by 1872/73 production levels at 3.9 million bales exceeded that of every antebellum year bar two (record production was 4.86 million bales in 1859 / 60). You could have a robust cotton industry w/0 slave labor, but perhaps not as profitable or productive.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS