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"The Left Case Against Open Borders"
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From American Affairs:

The Left Case against Open Borders
by Angela Nagle

… If Trump is for immigration controls, then the Left will demand the opposite. And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

While no serious political party of the Left is offering concrete proposals for a truly borderless society, by embracing the moral arguments of the open-borders Left and the economic arguments of free market think tanks, the Left has painted itself into a corner. If “no human is illegal!,” as the protest chant goes, the Left is implicitly accepting the moral case for no borders or sovereign nations at all. But what implications will unlimited migration have for projects like universal public health care and education, or a federal jobs guarantee? And how will progressives convincingly explain these goals to the public?

During the 2016 Democratic primary campaign, when Vox editor Ezra Klein suggested open borders policies to Bernie Sanders, the senator famously showed his vintage when he replied, “Open borders? No. That’s a Koch brothers proposal.”1 This momentarily confused the official narrative, and Sanders was quickly accused of “sounding like Donald Trump.” Beneath the generational differences revealed in this exchange, however, is a larger issue. The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds. In the heightened emotions of America’s public debate on migration, a simple moral and political dichotomy prevails. It is “right-wing” to be “against immigration” and “left-wing” to be “for immigration.” But the economics of migration tell a different story.

This article has generated a lot of angry responses from Nagle’s former allies on the left about how Nobody is for Open Borders, so why is Nagle even mentioning this?

Here’s the Current Year’s conventional wisdom on Open Borders:

We’re not for Open Borders. That’s silly. Practically nobody is for Open Borders.

We’re just against everybody who is against Open Borders, you hateful racist xenophobic nativists.

Screenshot 2018-11-21 17.06.21

 
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  1. I don’t know why this is getting so much publicity. It’s actually pretty poor in a lot of ways. (She completely discounts that ethnic conflict does not have to be a conspiracy of working class groups being ‘pitted’ against each other and freely decide that their ethnic conflict is more important than class conflict, see for example, Northern Ireland.) David Goodhart is the best in terms of a Leftist critique of open borders. Also I don’t know what planet the author is on, but the Ireland on her planet also a country of very high immigration as well as emigration.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Altai

    Is Goodhart's book "The Road to Somewhere" any good?

    Replies: @Edward

    , @King Baeksu
    @Altai


    (She completely discounts that ethnic conflict does not have to be a conspiracy of working class groups being ‘pitted’ against each other and freely decide that their ethnic conflict is more important than class conflict, see for example, Northern Ireland.)
     
    Intraracial ethnic conflict is one thing and interracial conflict is something else. Unfortunately, human tribalism based on race, religion or a combination of both often trumps mere economic class solidarity, and it seems our ruling elites know this all too well. The more racial and religious conflicts there are within a society, the easier it is for them to divide and rule.
  2. Until they find a nail their gaslighting hammer can’t drive (Kavanaugh was close but no cigar), they’ll be sticking with it. For everyone’s sake, that hammer needs to be broken in a million pieces.

    • Replies: @Russell Upvittles
    @Desiderius

    "Gaslighting hammer"?
    As far as metaphors go, this is the front half of a Corvette welded onto a Ford dualie rear end. Nice work!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Coemgen, @Desiderius

  3. I’m not against abortion, I’m just opposed to anyone getting an abortion.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Considering that the legalization of abortion saved the USA from the terrible crime wave attributable to the millions of black lives prevented from birth, it must be considered one of the very few pieces of 1960s/70s American cultural revolution measures which was actually beneficial rather than baleful in its effect.

    Replies: @anonymous, @anon

  4. This is the same chick who wrote “kill all normies,” a largely dream-based takedown of the so-called at-right. Our elites, whether they’re defending the mutilation of children while demanding that you cry over staged child photographs, or babblingly drunkenly about UFOs while demanding that you lose your job if you fail a drug test, are so indefensibly stupid that anyone who properly researches any topic from any starting point will come away hating them.
    >lefty allies flee at the first sign of thoughtcrime
    No one could have foreseen this.
    ———
    Know who likes open borders? Obama generals:
    The Pentagon announced all active-duty troops sent to the U.S. southern border ahead of a migrant caravan’s arrival will begin to drawdown, just as that caravan of asylum-seeking refugees began to arrive at a port of entry in Tijuana, Mexico.

    Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, who runs the mission out of Texas, told Politico that the troops sent by President Trump to back up existing border enforcement “should be home by Christmas.” He also said troop numbers would rapidly fall after “engineer and logistics troops” finish fortifying entry ports and base camps along the U.S.-Mexico border.

    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”

    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-troops-to-leave-us-mexico-border-just-as-migrant-caravan-arrives

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @J.Ross

    Why doesn't Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.

    Replies: @anon, @Harry Baldwin

    , @istevefan
    @J.Ross


    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”
     
    So despite Trump delivering a record budge for the military, the brass is not on board with the agenda of America first. Add to this Trump's failure to attract Jews despite moving the embassy to Jerusalem and nuking the Iran deal. And then there is criminal justice reform for the demographic that will vote 90 percent against Trump.

    Meanwhile the true believers are still waiting for the thing they keep chanting for at Trump's rallies.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @LondonBob

    , @Anonymous
    @J.Ross


    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.
     
    Are they not good for the Mexican Economy?
  5. And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

    Robert Bartley (1937-2003), editorial page editor of the Wall Street Journal for 30+ years, was in favor of open borders to the point of proposing a Constitutional amendment.

    In a July 2, 2001 Wall Street Journal editorial, Bartley reminded readers that “during the immigration debate of 1984 we [WSJ] suggested an ultimate goal to guide passing policies–a constitutional amendment: ‘There shall be open borders.‘”

    It would be hard to find anyone who thinks the Wall Street Journal is other than mainstream, whether today, 2001, or 1984.

    It’s much more likely that the definition of “mainstream liberal discourse” has changed decidedly over the past 35 years.

    • Replies: @Altan Goldman
    @Forbes

    One should recognize that The Wall Street Journal is a tool of he oligarchs for the oligarchs par excellence just like the rest of the MSM.

    Replies: @IHTG

  6. I’d rather be a hammer than a nail?

    And, quoted from somewhere else, “As God is my witness, I thought Communists could fly.”

  7. Okay, so which item from the Bill of Rights did you want to keep?
    https://www.whec.com/news/proposed-state-law-would-require-ny-pistol-owners-open-up-social-media-and-online-searches/5151962/

    New Yorkers applying for handgun licenses or renewing existing licenses could potentially have to submit to a state review of their social media histories and internet searches under a proposed new state law.
    The law would empower State Police to investigate for “commonly known profane slurs or biased language used to describe the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person.”

    If you’ve ever called anyone a retard in an online discussion this law says you’re a terrorist. It’s not just racism, it’s literally anything they can find. If you don’t think that trannies are women, they’ll take your guns.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    @J.Ross

    They may not get this pushed through now, but it’s a clear portent of the future.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    , @istevefan
    @J.Ross

    Weren't we told that the 14th Amendment is written in stone and that Trump or Congress cannot do anything to modify or clarify it short of passing a new amendment? Yet we have a myriad of laws and regulations doing just that with the 2nd Amendment. And from the sound of your post, it looks like the 2A will continue to be narrowed without the hassle of passing a new amendment.

    So why can one amendment, an item in the Bill of Rights no less, be tweaked with laws and regulations while another amendment is untouchable?

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Tiny Duck

    , @anonymous
    @J.Ross

    Yes,,,also, a few days after the election, the Democrat who Democrat Cuomo II appointed to investigate (Democrat ) state Comptroller Schneiderman announces that no charges will be forthcoming...and today, Cuomo II announces that he "loves" Upstate New York.

    Jesus wept.

    , @M. Hartley
    @J.Ross

    Good, important find. Thanks.

  8. @Altai
    I don't know why this is getting so much publicity. It's actually pretty poor in a lot of ways. (She completely discounts that ethnic conflict does not have to be a conspiracy of working class groups being 'pitted' against each other and freely decide that their ethnic conflict is more important than class conflict, see for example, Northern Ireland.) David Goodhart is the best in terms of a Leftist critique of open borders. Also I don't know what planet the author is on, but the Ireland on her planet also a country of very high immigration as well as emigration.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUNEwHsVqDU

    Replies: @Forbes, @King Baeksu

    Is Goodhart’s book “The Road to Somewhere” any good?

    • Replies: @Edward
    @Forbes

    I would recommend it. As someone who is generally very socially liberal, fairly pro-immigration if stringent guest-worker conditions are met, and who voted Remain in the EU referendum (what am I doing here, you may ask!), it was an eye-opener for me.

    I didn’t update my views all that much, but it did illustrate very well the fact that people who hold my views are in a minority. Hence why I think reversing the result of the EU referendum would be a disaster.

    Replies: @LostHopeless

  9. The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds.

    She makes a lot of sense. Illegal immigration was encouraged by business and devastated the lower middle class. If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration. And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @L Woods
    @Cato

    Ironically (and hilariously hypocritically), the left is doing what they were so fond for so long of accusing the right of doing: bamboozling the proletariat into acting against their material interests in exchange for immaterial social status.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Cato

    And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    That's all the left is offering the white proletariat. The non-white element is getting all sorts of benefits and privileges.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    , @dfordoom
    @Cato


    If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration.
     
    If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose immigration. Legal immigration is a much bigger threat than illegal immigration.
  10. We need immigrants , more and more of them.
    In Colorado, we have full unemployment in most sectors and there are many job vacancies.
    We are a nation of Immigrants and Diversity is our Strength.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Mike Krauthammer

    Tiny Duck impersonations continue. Weak beer though.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

  11. I’ve seen bountiful posters pasted all over the cities in Australia from Socialists groups saying that exact spiel: Nobody is illegal, open borders for all. I suppose in one sense the traditional leftist agenda is against it, but radical free thinkers (morons) like Ocasio-Cortez will pump the boat full of holes until it sinks I suppose.

    • Replies: @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    @Tusk

    Australia has free trade, and almost no manufacturing.

    Yet an 18-year-old Australian soldier earns almost twice as much as an 18-year-old American soldier.

    Why?

    Australia has a chronic shortage of unskilled workers, because Australia has no illegal immigration.

    Australian employers are forced to compete for scarce unskilled workers by paying high wages.

    Stopping the immigration of unskilled workers is vastly more important than import tariffs.

    Note:
    Base salary of an Australian soldier is $36,246 (49,990 Australian dollars).
    Base salary of an American soldier is $19,659.

    , @dfordoom
    @Tusk


    I’ve seen bountiful posters pasted all over the cities in Australia from Socialists groups saying that exact spiel: Nobody is illegal, open borders for all. I suppose in one sense the traditional leftist agenda is against it
     
    The leftists who support open borders (and identity politics) are useful idiots for the bankers and billionaires.

    There's nothing remotely left-wing about open borders or identity politics. Open borders and identity politics are anti-leftist ideas.
  12. @Mike Krauthammer
    We need immigrants , more and more of them.
    In Colorado, we have full unemployment in most sectors and there are many job vacancies.
    We are a nation of Immigrants and Diversity is our Strength.

    Replies: @Forbes

    Tiny Duck impersonations continue. Weak beer though.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Forbes

    I thought the “full unemployment” bit was quite good.

    Replies: @M. Hartley

  13. @J.Ross
    Okay, so which item from the Bill of Rights did you want to keep?
    https://www.whec.com/news/proposed-state-law-would-require-ny-pistol-owners-open-up-social-media-and-online-searches/5151962/

    New Yorkers applying for handgun licenses or renewing existing licenses could potentially have to submit to a state review of their social media histories and internet searches under a proposed new state law.
    The law would empower State Police to investigate for "commonly known profane slurs or biased language used to describe the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person."
     
    If you've ever called anyone a retard in an online discussion this law says you're a terrorist. It's not just racism, it's literally anything they can find. If you don't think that trannies are women, they'll take your guns.

    Replies: @L Woods, @istevefan, @anonymous, @M. Hartley

    They may not get this pushed through now, but it’s a clear portent of the future.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @L Woods

    Liberty is on Death Row. I blame soybeans, cigarettes, and beer.

  14. And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

    With some very big differences. The libertarians believed in freedom of association– absolutely, not selectively, as Southerners did– that alms must be voluntary, that immigrants and everyone else must pull his own weight.

    With these policies in force, the borders would be open to a mostly closed environment. This is so far from what the Left believes that the two “open borders” policies might as well be on different planets.

    Come to think of it, the Moon has open borders. How’s their immigration situation?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Reg Cæsar


    Come to think of it, the Moon has open borders. How’s their immigration situation?
     
    Not a prime destination.

    It’s got a few humorously nasty denizens and some tragic dirt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T6tL0UdmY4
  15. @Cato

    The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds.

     

    She makes a lot of sense. Illegal immigration was encouraged by business and devastated the lower middle class. If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration. And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    Replies: @L Woods, @Harry Baldwin, @dfordoom

    Ironically (and hilariously hypocritically), the left is doing what they were so fond for so long of accusing the right of doing: bamboozling the proletariat into acting against their material interests in exchange for immaterial social status.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  16. Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    • Replies: @King Baeksu
    @trelane

    It seems you haven't read Nagle's article, which notes that there is plenty of "high-IQ" migration to the West today. This "brain drain" often negatively impacts the developing world, but it also drives down wages for the native, educated middle classes of the West.

    Unfettered low-skilled migration unfairly impacts minority and uneducated workers in the West, while mass high-skilled migration also unfairly impacts its educated workers. There is a reason why strong majorities in the West favor reduced overall levels of migration, but our elites in their infinite wisdom have decided that they "know better" and choose to ignore popular opinion for now.

    Replies: @M. Hartley

    , @Lurker
    @trelane

    The second test would be a step up for voter ID though.

    , @anon
    @trelane

    there are lots of people from India that can beat 110 or 120 IQ, do you want a country full of them?

    i dont

    , @Anonymous
    @trelane


    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.
     
    Is it wise to import alien races who are more clever than you?

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @bomag

    , @Saxon
    @trelane

    It would be a terrible idea and Lee Kuan Yew's experience in running Singapore even though it was 3/4 his own people will tell you why.

    Also, these high IQ foreign people will still want to bring in their low IQ co-ethnics and will agitate for that, as well as agitate for special treatment for themselves.

  17. Very good post. Traditional pro-Labor Democrats always opposed unchecked immigration. It along with offshoring eviscerated Labor’s political influence, which ultimately is going to erode the social safety net for all of us.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @istevefan
    @JLK

    I know an older guy who is a lifelong democrat and union member. His views are straight out of the Truman administration. He was complaining that too many of his union friends were voting GOP. I told him how the democrats abandoned labor and were no longer the party of Truman. I told him they were catering to immigrants, freaks and the loony left. He acknowledged they were catering to the immigrants, BUT he blamed the union workers. He thinks the democrats were forced to cater to immigrants since the white union voters abandoned them.

    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?

    Replies: @Rosie, @John Pepple

  18. @Desiderius
    Until they find a nail their gaslighting hammer can’t drive (Kavanaugh was close but no cigar), they’ll be sticking with it. For everyone’s sake, that hammer needs to be broken in a million pieces.

    Replies: @Russell Upvittles

    “Gaslighting hammer”?
    As far as metaphors go, this is the front half of a Corvette welded onto a Ford dualie rear end. Nice work!

    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Russell Upvittles

    I had to read that “gaslighting hammer”sentence about four times before I could figure it out.

    , @Coemgen
    @Russell Upvittles

    Hello, my name is Coemgen (that's Kevin for those who don't know how to use a search engine—I'm speaking to you TD) and I am a schadenfreude-aholic. I can't wait to see the day when I am the last YT on earth and all TDs are crying beriberi.

    OT: I probably should take my own advice and use a search engine but has anyone else noticed that the "hate hoax" phenomenon seems to be a variety of Munchausen's Syndrome (complete with a by proxy component)?

    , @Desiderius
    @Russell Upvittles

    https://youtu.be/ws-_syszg84

    The allusion is to the saying that if all one has is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

  19. Being against open borders is inherently racist

    the only way the world will improve is if white mem are out of power

    Yeah I said it

    • LOL: Coemgen
    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    @Tiny Duck

    Just like these paradise the poc of the world are so desperately trying to escape to gain entry to the white homelands. You wouldn't last a day mongrel.

  20. @Altai
    I don't know why this is getting so much publicity. It's actually pretty poor in a lot of ways. (She completely discounts that ethnic conflict does not have to be a conspiracy of working class groups being 'pitted' against each other and freely decide that their ethnic conflict is more important than class conflict, see for example, Northern Ireland.) David Goodhart is the best in terms of a Leftist critique of open borders. Also I don't know what planet the author is on, but the Ireland on her planet also a country of very high immigration as well as emigration.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUNEwHsVqDU

    Replies: @Forbes, @King Baeksu

    (She completely discounts that ethnic conflict does not have to be a conspiracy of working class groups being ‘pitted’ against each other and freely decide that their ethnic conflict is more important than class conflict, see for example, Northern Ireland.)

    Intraracial ethnic conflict is one thing and interracial conflict is something else. Unfortunately, human tribalism based on race, religion or a combination of both often trumps mere economic class solidarity, and it seems our ruling elites know this all too well. The more racial and religious conflicts there are within a society, the easier it is for them to divide and rule.

  21. @J.Ross
    This is the same chick who wrote "kill all normies," a largely dream-based takedown of the so-called at-right. Our elites, whether they're defending the mutilation of children while demanding that you cry over staged child photographs, or babblingly drunkenly about UFOs while demanding that you lose your job if you fail a drug test, are so indefensibly stupid that anyone who properly researches any topic from any starting point will come away hating them.
    >lefty allies flee at the first sign of thoughtcrime
    No one could have foreseen this.
    ---------
    Know who likes open borders? Obama generals:
    The Pentagon announced all active-duty troops sent to the U.S. southern border ahead of a migrant caravan’s arrival will begin to drawdown, just as that caravan of asylum-seeking refugees began to arrive at a port of entry in Tijuana, Mexico.

    Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, who runs the mission out of Texas, told Politico that the troops sent by President Trump to back up existing border enforcement “should be home by Christmas.” He also said troop numbers would rapidly fall after “engineer and logistics troops” finish fortifying entry ports and base camps along the U.S.-Mexico border.

    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”

    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-troops-to-leave-us-mexico-border-just-as-migrant-caravan-arrives

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @istevefan, @Anonymous

    Why doesn’t Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @anon
    @Charles Erwin Wilson


    Why doesn’t Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.
     
    i was wondering this too

    after all his mlitary worship and his support of increased military spending they still stab him in the back
    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Probably have to get down to the colonel level. Obama purged the military of top brass who were not compliant with his views, for example Gen. Carter Ham., who was relieved as head of U.S. Africa Command after only a year and a half because he disagreed with orders not to mount a rescue mission in response to the attack in Benghazi.

  22. istevefan says:
    @J.Ross
    Okay, so which item from the Bill of Rights did you want to keep?
    https://www.whec.com/news/proposed-state-law-would-require-ny-pistol-owners-open-up-social-media-and-online-searches/5151962/

    New Yorkers applying for handgun licenses or renewing existing licenses could potentially have to submit to a state review of their social media histories and internet searches under a proposed new state law.
    The law would empower State Police to investigate for "commonly known profane slurs or biased language used to describe the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person."
     
    If you've ever called anyone a retard in an online discussion this law says you're a terrorist. It's not just racism, it's literally anything they can find. If you don't think that trannies are women, they'll take your guns.

    Replies: @L Woods, @istevefan, @anonymous, @M. Hartley

    Weren’t we told that the 14th Amendment is written in stone and that Trump or Congress cannot do anything to modify or clarify it short of passing a new amendment? Yet we have a myriad of laws and regulations doing just that with the 2nd Amendment. And from the sound of your post, it looks like the 2A will continue to be narrowed without the hassle of passing a new amendment.

    So why can one amendment, an item in the Bill of Rights no less, be tweaked with laws and regulations while another amendment is untouchable?

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @istevefan

    Excellent point.

    , @Tiny Duck
    @istevefan

    False equivalency
    The 14th deals with people

    The 2nd deals with things

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @M. Hartley

  23. @trelane
    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Replies: @King Baeksu, @Lurker, @anon, @Anonymous, @Saxon

    It seems you haven’t read Nagle’s article, which notes that there is plenty of “high-IQ” migration to the West today. This “brain drain” often negatively impacts the developing world, but it also drives down wages for the native, educated middle classes of the West.

    Unfettered low-skilled migration unfairly impacts minority and uneducated workers in the West, while mass high-skilled migration also unfairly impacts its educated workers. There is a reason why strong majorities in the West favor reduced overall levels of migration, but our elites in their infinite wisdom have decided that they “know better” and choose to ignore popular opinion for now.

    • Replies: @M. Hartley
    @King Baeksu

    They can ignore popular opinion because they wield the means for changing popular opinion.

  24. istevefan says:
    @J.Ross
    This is the same chick who wrote "kill all normies," a largely dream-based takedown of the so-called at-right. Our elites, whether they're defending the mutilation of children while demanding that you cry over staged child photographs, or babblingly drunkenly about UFOs while demanding that you lose your job if you fail a drug test, are so indefensibly stupid that anyone who properly researches any topic from any starting point will come away hating them.
    >lefty allies flee at the first sign of thoughtcrime
    No one could have foreseen this.
    ---------
    Know who likes open borders? Obama generals:
    The Pentagon announced all active-duty troops sent to the U.S. southern border ahead of a migrant caravan’s arrival will begin to drawdown, just as that caravan of asylum-seeking refugees began to arrive at a port of entry in Tijuana, Mexico.

    Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, who runs the mission out of Texas, told Politico that the troops sent by President Trump to back up existing border enforcement “should be home by Christmas.” He also said troop numbers would rapidly fall after “engineer and logistics troops” finish fortifying entry ports and base camps along the U.S.-Mexico border.

    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”

    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-troops-to-leave-us-mexico-border-just-as-migrant-caravan-arrives

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @istevefan, @Anonymous

    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”

    So despite Trump delivering a record budge for the military, the brass is not on board with the agenda of America first. Add to this Trump’s failure to attract Jews despite moving the embassy to Jerusalem and nuking the Iran deal. And then there is criminal justice reform for the demographic that will vote 90 percent against Trump.

    Meanwhile the true believers are still waiting for the thing they keep chanting for at Trump’s rallies.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @istevefan

    And blacks voting against him despite record low unemployment. What we're actually discovering is the specific limits of media lying.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    , @LondonBob
    @istevefan

    The GOP got 17/18 percent of the Jewish vote despite Trump aligning US foreign policy in MENA even more in Israel's interests than any President before.

    Replies: @M. Hartley, @International Jew

  25. istevefan says:
    @JLK
    Very good post. Traditional pro-Labor Democrats always opposed unchecked immigration. It along with offshoring eviscerated Labor's political influence, which ultimately is going to erode the social safety net for all of us.

    Replies: @istevefan

    I know an older guy who is a lifelong democrat and union member. His views are straight out of the Truman administration. He was complaining that too many of his union friends were voting GOP. I told him how the democrats abandoned labor and were no longer the party of Truman. I told him they were catering to immigrants, freaks and the loony left. He acknowledged they were catering to the immigrants, BUT he blamed the union workers. He thinks the democrats were forced to cater to immigrants since the white union voters abandoned them.

    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @istevefan


    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?
     
    If labor abandoned the Democrats, I can only imagine it was because of their failure to move right on social issues as the voters demanded.

    Of course, that's the charitable view. More likely, Democrat donors forced them to redirect their fire toward the White working and middle classes and away from the plutocracy.

    Replies: @Simple Psuedonym

    , @John Pepple
    @istevefan

    The Democrats abandoned labor over issues relating to blacks and the Vietnam War. In the 1960s, Democrats began pushing for changes for blacks, but it often meant more crime in the neighborhoods of the white working class as blacks moved in. The Democrats could have tried to deal directly with this issue, but they decided to be soft on crime instead, seeing criminals as victims of the society, and this meant seeing working-class whites as racists.

    As for Vietnam, the white working class had no interest in being anti-war, or if they did, they didn't like the anti-military and anti-American tone the Democrats began adopting. I heard a certain chant a lot in college back in the late 1960s and early 1970s:

    Same enemy, same fight,
    Workers and students must unite.

    But they never did unite and instead went off in separate directions.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  26. Lots of people will say they don’t actually want unlimited immigration. But then get them to discuss, even in the vaguest terms, where the line should be drawn and they’ll run a mile.

    Between them the true believers, virtue signalers and the plain scared ensure that no rational debate happens.

    • Replies: @M. Hartley
    @Lurker

    There is also the fact that the argument is always framed in terms of "immigrants are good" vs "immigrants are bad".

    If I can show you one or two good immigrants, it proves that immigrants are good. If you try and show one or two bad ones, it means that you are a Racist Nazi.

    You never ever hear them addressing the question of whether or not 100 million immigrants are good or not.

    , @SWVirginian
    @Lurker

    'Lots of people will say they don’t actually want unlimited immigration. But then get them to discuss, even in the vaguest terms, where the line should be drawn and they’ll run a mile."

    Amen, Brother.

    http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/rd-immigration-advocates-are-there-any-limits

  27. @Cato

    The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds.

     

    She makes a lot of sense. Illegal immigration was encouraged by business and devastated the lower middle class. If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration. And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    Replies: @L Woods, @Harry Baldwin, @dfordoom

    And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    That’s all the left is offering the white proletariat. The non-white element is getting all sorts of benefits and privileges.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Harry Baldwin

    They really aren't. Look who benefits from Affirmative Action. Not theblack proles, but the talentedtenth. Of course, the real beneficiaries are the "white" elite at the top. AA lets them posture about doing something for blacks while the person who pays the bill for that benefit is a marginal white person, who might have been competition for them.

    It's why I now support reparations with an immediate end to ALL affirmative action. At least with reparations the black proles will get something, and the white elite will pay something.

    Replies: @Lowe

  28. @L Woods
    @J.Ross

    They may not get this pushed through now, but it’s a clear portent of the future.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    Liberty is on Death Row. I blame soybeans, cigarettes, and beer.

  29. @Russell Upvittles
    @Desiderius

    "Gaslighting hammer"?
    As far as metaphors go, this is the front half of a Corvette welded onto a Ford dualie rear end. Nice work!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Coemgen, @Desiderius

    I had to read that “gaslighting hammer”sentence about four times before I could figure it out.

  30. @istevefan
    @J.Ross

    Weren't we told that the 14th Amendment is written in stone and that Trump or Congress cannot do anything to modify or clarify it short of passing a new amendment? Yet we have a myriad of laws and regulations doing just that with the 2nd Amendment. And from the sound of your post, it looks like the 2A will continue to be narrowed without the hassle of passing a new amendment.

    So why can one amendment, an item in the Bill of Rights no less, be tweaked with laws and regulations while another amendment is untouchable?

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Tiny Duck

    Excellent point.

  31. @trelane
    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Replies: @King Baeksu, @Lurker, @anon, @Anonymous, @Saxon

    The second test would be a step up for voter ID though.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  32. @istevefan
    @JLK

    I know an older guy who is a lifelong democrat and union member. His views are straight out of the Truman administration. He was complaining that too many of his union friends were voting GOP. I told him how the democrats abandoned labor and were no longer the party of Truman. I told him they were catering to immigrants, freaks and the loony left. He acknowledged they were catering to the immigrants, BUT he blamed the union workers. He thinks the democrats were forced to cater to immigrants since the white union voters abandoned them.

    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?

    Replies: @Rosie, @John Pepple

    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?

    If labor abandoned the Democrats, I can only imagine it was because of their failure to move right on social issues as the voters demanded.

    Of course, that’s the charitable view. More likely, Democrat donors forced them to redirect their fire toward the White working and middle classes and away from the plutocracy.

    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    @Rosie

    Similar to the environmental movement. Bribed the leadership who promptly sold out their supporters. It's an evolutionary strategy. Crypsis cooption, the entropy of endless mass immigration to weaken healthy productive nations and races and allow for extraction of resources from productive industry, labor, agriculture

  33. @Tiny Duck
    Being against open borders is inherently racist

    the only way the world will improve is if white mem are out of power

    Yeah I said it

    Replies: @Simple Psuedonym

    Just like these paradise the poc of the world are so desperately trying to escape to gain entry to the white homelands. You wouldn’t last a day mongrel.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  34. @Rosie
    @istevefan


    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?
     
    If labor abandoned the Democrats, I can only imagine it was because of their failure to move right on social issues as the voters demanded.

    Of course, that's the charitable view. More likely, Democrat donors forced them to redirect their fire toward the White working and middle classes and away from the plutocracy.

    Replies: @Simple Psuedonym

    Similar to the environmental movement. Bribed the leadership who promptly sold out their supporters. It’s an evolutionary strategy. Crypsis cooption, the entropy of endless mass immigration to weaken healthy productive nations and races and allow for extraction of resources from productive industry, labor, agriculture

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  35. @istevefan
    @J.Ross


    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”
     
    So despite Trump delivering a record budge for the military, the brass is not on board with the agenda of America first. Add to this Trump's failure to attract Jews despite moving the embassy to Jerusalem and nuking the Iran deal. And then there is criminal justice reform for the demographic that will vote 90 percent against Trump.

    Meanwhile the true believers are still waiting for the thing they keep chanting for at Trump's rallies.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @LondonBob

    And blacks voting against him despite record low unemployment. What we’re actually discovering is the specific limits of media lying.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @J.Ross

    Blexit proved to be utter nonsense, that said there is a value to not having blacks vote against you, but this is limited.

  36. @J.Ross
    Okay, so which item from the Bill of Rights did you want to keep?
    https://www.whec.com/news/proposed-state-law-would-require-ny-pistol-owners-open-up-social-media-and-online-searches/5151962/

    New Yorkers applying for handgun licenses or renewing existing licenses could potentially have to submit to a state review of their social media histories and internet searches under a proposed new state law.
    The law would empower State Police to investigate for "commonly known profane slurs or biased language used to describe the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person."
     
    If you've ever called anyone a retard in an online discussion this law says you're a terrorist. It's not just racism, it's literally anything they can find. If you don't think that trannies are women, they'll take your guns.

    Replies: @L Woods, @istevefan, @anonymous, @M. Hartley

    Yes,,,also, a few days after the election, the Democrat who Democrat Cuomo II appointed to investigate (Democrat ) state Comptroller Schneiderman announces that no charges will be forthcoming…and today, Cuomo II announces that he “loves” Upstate New York.

    Jesus wept.

  37. Regardless of what one thinks of open borders, and regardless of what one thinks of the welfare state, it is blindingly obvious the combining them is totally insane.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Rex Little
    @lhtness


    Regardless of what one thinks of open borders, and regardless of what one thinks of the welfare state, it is blindingly obvious the combining them is totally insane.
     
    My generation of libertarians understood this. It saddens me that today's don't seem to. Even if open borders is a libertarian ideal in principle, it makes no sense to pursue it until another libertarian ideal--elimination of the welfare state--has been achieved.

    And in practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly if you let a bunch of people in who want to vote it back.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  38. Yawn. The American left doesn’t have anything to do with “labor” or the “working class”. It’s ideologically Jewish minoritarianism–and justifying abusive state power for the same–end-to-end. That’s been mostly true for darn near 50 years, and the transition was complete at least 20-25 years ago.

    Discovering, now, that left policies are hostile to people in the working class … just marks you as a an embarassment, a credulous rube who doesn’t understand who is calling the shots and what their agenda is.

    • Agree: utu, J.Ross, Mr. Rational
  39. @Tusk
    I've seen bountiful posters pasted all over the cities in Australia from Socialists groups saying that exact spiel: Nobody is illegal, open borders for all. I suppose in one sense the traditional leftist agenda is against it, but radical free thinkers (morons) like Ocasio-Cortez will pump the boat full of holes until it sinks I suppose.

    Replies: @Pittsburgh Thatcherite, @dfordoom

    Australia has free trade, and almost no manufacturing.

    Yet an 18-year-old Australian soldier earns almost twice as much as an 18-year-old American soldier.

    Why?

    Australia has a chronic shortage of unskilled workers, because Australia has no illegal immigration.

    Australian employers are forced to compete for scarce unskilled workers by paying high wages.

    Stopping the immigration of unskilled workers is vastly more important than import tariffs.

    Note:
    Base salary of an Australian soldier is $36,246 (49,990 Australian dollars).
    Base salary of an American soldier is $19,659.

  40. @istevefan
    @J.Ross

    Weren't we told that the 14th Amendment is written in stone and that Trump or Congress cannot do anything to modify or clarify it short of passing a new amendment? Yet we have a myriad of laws and regulations doing just that with the 2nd Amendment. And from the sound of your post, it looks like the 2A will continue to be narrowed without the hassle of passing a new amendment.

    So why can one amendment, an item in the Bill of Rights no less, be tweaked with laws and regulations while another amendment is untouchable?

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Tiny Duck

    False equivalency
    The 14th deals with people

    The 2nd deals with things

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Tiny Duck

    No, actually both involve POC.

    , @M. Hartley
    @Tiny Duck

    Can't wait to set you loose on the Ten Commandments..

  41. the left supposedly was for the working man but all this immigration does is lower the price of wages

  42. @trelane
    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Replies: @King Baeksu, @Lurker, @anon, @Anonymous, @Saxon

    there are lots of people from India that can beat 110 or 120 IQ, do you want a country full of them?

    i dont

    • Agree: Mr. Rational, Carol
  43. Borders form naturally. If open borders happens at the nation state level, you’d better believe borders are going to re-form spontaneously around some other organizational unit.

    Here’s what this will look like in practice. Open borders, if implemented, will totally collapse the welfare state and severely damage things that require high-trust societies to work well. Public education, public health, public safety, etc., will all become total train wrecks, and things like health care will start to work really poorly even if you have money and are using private insurance. Things like social security, unemployment insurance, etc., will be fully or partially defunded, out of necessity. Of course we already have semi-open borders, and this is already happening.

    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum. They will have some way of being choosy about their members, and will compete to recruit a relatively high functioning cohort. This cohort will fund the organization (think tithes not taxes) and in return will get things like education and health care. The organization will only give these services to members, however.
    Voila, you now have a pseudo-border.

    I’m not sure what exact form this will have but I would have to guess they will take the form of religious organizations. They will need to have some way of screening out the rabble and the leeches, instead of actively seeking them out as they currently do.

    Anyway that’s the future. Parallel states, or states within-a-state, whatever you want to call it. Exciting times.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Flip
    @SimpleSong

    Sort of like the Mormon Church, I suppose.

    , @M. Hartley
    @SimpleSong

    You have just described, in some detail, what happens when a society is made over by the Chosen People.

    , @Ximenes
    @SimpleSong


    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum.
     
    No they won't, the federal government will. Then it will be mission accomplished and you will see the borders closed-- just like they were in the Soviet Union.
  44. Does the President have authority to set the number of legal immigrants?

    How is that number determined? Under what law?

    I cannot believe it is untouchable.
    It is just another public policy. Like painting lane stripes on roads.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Sarah Toga

    No. The current law is Immigration Act of 1990 (Pub.L. 101–649, 104 Stat. 4978, enacted November 29, 1990). Also known as Title 8 of USC Chapter 12: Immigration and Nationality.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-104/pdf/STATUTE-104-Pg4978.pdf

  45. @istevefan
    @JLK

    I know an older guy who is a lifelong democrat and union member. His views are straight out of the Truman administration. He was complaining that too many of his union friends were voting GOP. I told him how the democrats abandoned labor and were no longer the party of Truman. I told him they were catering to immigrants, freaks and the loony left. He acknowledged they were catering to the immigrants, BUT he blamed the union workers. He thinks the democrats were forced to cater to immigrants since the white union voters abandoned them.

    So we ended up in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion about what came first. Did the democrats abandon labor for other demographics, or did labor abandon the democrats forcing them to go all in on immigrants?

    Replies: @Rosie, @John Pepple

    The Democrats abandoned labor over issues relating to blacks and the Vietnam War. In the 1960s, Democrats began pushing for changes for blacks, but it often meant more crime in the neighborhoods of the white working class as blacks moved in. The Democrats could have tried to deal directly with this issue, but they decided to be soft on crime instead, seeing criminals as victims of the society, and this meant seeing working-class whites as racists.

    As for Vietnam, the white working class had no interest in being anti-war, or if they did, they didn’t like the anti-military and anti-American tone the Democrats began adopting. I heard a certain chant a lot in college back in the late 1960s and early 1970s:

    Same enemy, same fight,
    Workers and students must unite.

    But they never did unite and instead went off in separate directions.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @John Pepple

    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  46. @J.Ross
    This is the same chick who wrote "kill all normies," a largely dream-based takedown of the so-called at-right. Our elites, whether they're defending the mutilation of children while demanding that you cry over staged child photographs, or babblingly drunkenly about UFOs while demanding that you lose your job if you fail a drug test, are so indefensibly stupid that anyone who properly researches any topic from any starting point will come away hating them.
    >lefty allies flee at the first sign of thoughtcrime
    No one could have foreseen this.
    ---------
    Know who likes open borders? Obama generals:
    The Pentagon announced all active-duty troops sent to the U.S. southern border ahead of a migrant caravan’s arrival will begin to drawdown, just as that caravan of asylum-seeking refugees began to arrive at a port of entry in Tijuana, Mexico.

    Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, who runs the mission out of Texas, told Politico that the troops sent by President Trump to back up existing border enforcement “should be home by Christmas.” He also said troop numbers would rapidly fall after “engineer and logistics troops” finish fortifying entry ports and base camps along the U.S.-Mexico border.

    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”

    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-troops-to-leave-us-mexico-border-just-as-migrant-caravan-arrives

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @istevefan, @Anonymous

    Migrants started arriving in Tijuana by the hundreds late last week, with Mexican officials worrying about how to house the influx of migrants.

    Are they not good for the Mexican Economy?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational, bomag
  47. Anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @trelane
    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Replies: @King Baeksu, @Lurker, @anon, @Anonymous, @Saxon

    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Is it wise to import alien races who are more clever than you?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @Anonymous

    The West is inviting both an immigrant underclass and an overclass, which are equally problematic.

    , @bomag
    @Anonymous

    Yes, it seems high IQ foreigners help engineer things to bring in the lower quintiles of their brethren.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  48. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    The article sounds more like a right liberal case against open borders. Real, sincere leftists are revolutionaries who regard world communism as their ultimate goal. That’s why they’re for open borders. They support open borders in principle as an end in itself, and even if it has bad effects on workers somewhere, it is regarded as positive by stoking class consciousness and promoting revolution. The author suggests that closed borders would better serve the Left’s aims, without noting that the Left’s ultimate aim is a borderless world of global communism. Moreover, no rightist could sincerely believe the author’s argument here, because no rightist wishes to further the Left’s aim of global communism.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  49. I loved Angela Nagle’s book, “Kill All Normies,” and I love her even more after reading this article.

    But about E-Verify, which the federal government describes as “is an Internet-based system that compares information from your Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, to U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Social Security Administration (SSA) records to confirm that you are authorized to work in the United States.” In other words it is something the American people don’t understand.

    Far more effective would be a biometric Social Security card to replace the current one made out of cardboard. It would be issued to every American citizen as a form of national ID, and a slightly different version would be issued to noncitizens who are legally in the country and authorized to work. You would be required to carry it on your person whenever you are working and to present it whenever you apply for a job. It would also be used in other situations in which currently a driver’s license is used: to open a bank account, cash a check, register to vote, etc..

    Now that’s an idea the public could get behind!

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Luke Lea

    How could Persons of Color afford such a thing? Also, you've obviously never heard "National ID, it's the Mark Of The Beast" idiots.

    , @Flip
    @Luke Lea

    I think it works that way in a lot of countries.

  50. • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    “Trade unions for inclusion of refugees”
     
    Trade union leaderships betrayed their own members decades ago by embracing identity politics and environmentalism and similar nonsense. Ordinary trade unionists never did support that sort of stupidity.

    Why did the leaderships betray their own members? Mostly likely they were simply bribed to do so. The corporate sector wanted trade unions neutralised and I'm sure they were happy to pay labour leaders for selling out.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  51. Anonymous[964] • Disclaimer says:

    Actually, the article is wrong right from the first paragraph.

    Basically, it’s the big business loving free market *right* – as typified by Soros, The Economist, Tony Blair etc who are the biggest shills in advocated uncontrolled immigration, and not the ‘left’.

    This is a very very important realisation to make, not least because of the enormous money power backing the pro immigration right, but of the truly terrifying influence the worthies brainless bastards of The Economist have on the delineation of state policy, not in the least by some very foolish and gullible politicians wishing to appear ‘clever’ for the admiration of Economist writers.

  52. Anonymous[964] • Disclaimer says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    I'm not against abortion, I'm just opposed to anyone getting an abortion.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Considering that the legalization of abortion saved the USA from the terrible crime wave attributable to the millions of black lives prevented from birth, it must be considered one of the very few pieces of 1960s/70s American cultural revolution measures which was actually beneficial rather than baleful in its effect.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Yes, this is true.

    Also, I just "notice" that urban White Libs like to have their own areas look, smell and feel nice and that entails things like

    Urban renewal..... negro removal

    White Libs who vote 100% for Obama, Dems have ethnically cleansed poor Black African Americans of the Chicago South Lakefront - tearing out virtually every last single concrete basketball court and putting in things like sail boat basins, prairie restoration projects.

    There is a brewing conflict between White park nature lovers and the Black Obama/Melanie Hopkins Black political elite that has grabbed a huge chunk of Chicago lakefront park in Jackson park for an Obama Presidential Center including a 27 story high rise - this precious parkland was given to the Obama foundation for free and tax payers are being hit up for $500 million to build the damn thing.

    , @anon
    @Anonymous

    So why does the United States have the highest incarceration rates in the world, both in absolute numbers and relative numbers, you racist?

  53. @Tiny Duck
    @istevefan

    False equivalency
    The 14th deals with people

    The 2nd deals with things

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @M. Hartley

    No, actually both involve POC.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  54. @Luke Lea
    I loved Angela Nagle's book, "Kill All Normies," and I love her even more after reading this article.

    But about E-Verify, which the federal government describes as "is an Internet-based system that compares information from your Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, to U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Social Security Administration (SSA) records to confirm that you are authorized to work in the United States." In other words it is something the American people don't understand.

    Far more effective would be a biometric Social Security card to replace the current one made out of cardboard. It would be issued to every American citizen as a form of national ID, and a slightly different version would be issued to noncitizens who are legally in the country and authorized to work. You would be required to carry it on your person whenever you are working and to present it whenever you apply for a job. It would also be used in other situations in which currently a driver's license is used: to open a bank account, cash a check, register to vote, etc..

    Now that's an idea the public could get behind!

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Flip

    How could Persons of Color afford such a thing? Also, you’ve obviously never heard “National ID, it’s the Mark Of The Beast” idiots.

  55. “We’re just against everybody who is against Open Borders, you hateful racist xenophobic nativists.”

    We’re not for open borders: Its just that bringing the world to the American Way is easier than spreading the American Way to the world.

  56. @Forbes

    And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.
     
    Robert Bartley (1937-2003), editorial page editor of the Wall Street Journal for 30+ years, was in favor of open borders to the point of proposing a Constitutional amendment.

    In a July 2, 2001 Wall Street Journal editorial, Bartley reminded readers that "during the immigration debate of 1984 we [WSJ] suggested an ultimate goal to guide passing policies--a constitutional amendment: 'There shall be open borders.'"

    It would be hard to find anyone who thinks the Wall Street Journal is other than mainstream, whether today, 2001, or 1984.

    It's much more likely that the definition of "mainstream liberal discourse" has changed decidedly over the past 35 years.

    Replies: @Altan Goldman

    One should recognize that The Wall Street Journal is a tool of he oligarchs for the oligarchs par excellence just like the rest of the MSM.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @Altan Goldman

    Is, or was?

    The WSJ is the most mainstream organ today where one can find intellectual interpretations and defenses of Trumpism, which is supremely important for the future of politics in the United States.

  57. @Reg Cæsar

    And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

     

    With some very big differences. The libertarians believed in freedom of association-- absolutely, not selectively, as Southerners did-- that alms must be voluntary, that immigrants and everyone else must pull his own weight.

    With these policies in force, the borders would be open to a mostly closed environment. This is so far from what the Left believes that the two "open borders" policies might as well be on different planets.

    Come to think of it, the Moon has open borders. How's their immigration situation?

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Come to think of it, the Moon has open borders. How’s their immigration situation?

    Not a prime destination.

    It’s got a few humorously nasty denizens and some tragic dirt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  58. @istevefan
    @J.Ross


    Buchanan also confirmed that the Pentagon rejected a Department of Homeland Security request for “armed force to back up Border Patrol agents in the event of a violent confrontation,” describing the request as a “law enforcement task.”
     
    So despite Trump delivering a record budge for the military, the brass is not on board with the agenda of America first. Add to this Trump's failure to attract Jews despite moving the embassy to Jerusalem and nuking the Iran deal. And then there is criminal justice reform for the demographic that will vote 90 percent against Trump.

    Meanwhile the true believers are still waiting for the thing they keep chanting for at Trump's rallies.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @LondonBob

    The GOP got 17/18 percent of the Jewish vote despite Trump aligning US foreign policy in MENA even more in Israel’s interests than any President before.

    • Replies: @M. Hartley
    @LondonBob

    Because, as important as their little mideast enterprise is, the trashing and subjugation of the United States is even more important. Control of the U.S. facilitates almost everything.

    , @International Jew
    @LondonBob

    It was like that with Jews in your country and the Labor Party. Now British Jews are 2/3 Tory. Give it time, it'll happen here too.

    Replies: @istevefan

  59. @Altan Goldman
    @Forbes

    One should recognize that The Wall Street Journal is a tool of he oligarchs for the oligarchs par excellence just like the rest of the MSM.

    Replies: @IHTG

    Is, or was?

    The WSJ is the most mainstream organ today where one can find intellectual interpretations and defenses of Trumpism, which is supremely important for the future of politics in the United States.

  60. @J.Ross
    @istevefan

    And blacks voting against him despite record low unemployment. What we're actually discovering is the specific limits of media lying.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    Blexit proved to be utter nonsense, that said there is a value to not having blacks vote against you, but this is limited.

  61. @Russell Upvittles
    @Desiderius

    "Gaslighting hammer"?
    As far as metaphors go, this is the front half of a Corvette welded onto a Ford dualie rear end. Nice work!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Coemgen, @Desiderius

    Hello, my name is Coemgen (that’s Kevin for those who don’t know how to use a search engine—I’m speaking to you TD) and I am a schadenfreude-aholic. I can’t wait to see the day when I am the last YT on earth and all TDs are crying beriberi.

    OT: I probably should take my own advice and use a search engine but has anyone else noticed that the “hate hoax” phenomenon seems to be a variety of Munchausen’s Syndrome (complete with a by proxy component)?

  62. Having well-known Lefties making the case against open borders is real progress. We need everyone to break out of the death spiral we’re trapped in, not just a few internet geniuses who claim to have had everything figured out all along.

  63. @Forbes
    @Mike Krauthammer

    Tiny Duck impersonations continue. Weak beer though.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    I thought the “full unemployment” bit was quite good.

    • Replies: @M. Hartley
    @Ben tillman

    Good catch. It flew right by me.

  64. @SimpleSong
    Borders form naturally. If open borders happens at the nation state level, you'd better believe borders are going to re-form spontaneously around some other organizational unit.

    Here's what this will look like in practice. Open borders, if implemented, will totally collapse the welfare state and severely damage things that require high-trust societies to work well. Public education, public health, public safety, etc., will all become total train wrecks, and things like health care will start to work really poorly even if you have money and are using private insurance. Things like social security, unemployment insurance, etc., will be fully or partially defunded, out of necessity. Of course we already have semi-open borders, and this is already happening.

    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum. They will have some way of being choosy about their members, and will compete to recruit a relatively high functioning cohort. This cohort will fund the organization (think tithes not taxes) and in return will get things like education and health care. The organization will only give these services to members, however.
    Voila, you now have a pseudo-border.

    I'm not sure what exact form this will have but I would have to guess they will take the form of religious organizations. They will need to have some way of screening out the rabble and the leeches, instead of actively seeking them out as they currently do.

    Anyway that's the future. Parallel states, or states within-a-state, whatever you want to call it. Exciting times.

    Replies: @Flip, @M. Hartley, @Ximenes

    Sort of like the Mormon Church, I suppose.

  65. @Luke Lea
    I loved Angela Nagle's book, "Kill All Normies," and I love her even more after reading this article.

    But about E-Verify, which the federal government describes as "is an Internet-based system that compares information from your Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, to U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Social Security Administration (SSA) records to confirm that you are authorized to work in the United States." In other words it is something the American people don't understand.

    Far more effective would be a biometric Social Security card to replace the current one made out of cardboard. It would be issued to every American citizen as a form of national ID, and a slightly different version would be issued to noncitizens who are legally in the country and authorized to work. You would be required to carry it on your person whenever you are working and to present it whenever you apply for a job. It would also be used in other situations in which currently a driver's license is used: to open a bank account, cash a check, register to vote, etc..

    Now that's an idea the public could get behind!

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Flip

    I think it works that way in a lot of countries.

  66. @J.Ross
    Okay, so which item from the Bill of Rights did you want to keep?
    https://www.whec.com/news/proposed-state-law-would-require-ny-pistol-owners-open-up-social-media-and-online-searches/5151962/

    New Yorkers applying for handgun licenses or renewing existing licenses could potentially have to submit to a state review of their social media histories and internet searches under a proposed new state law.
    The law would empower State Police to investigate for "commonly known profane slurs or biased language used to describe the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person."
     
    If you've ever called anyone a retard in an online discussion this law says you're a terrorist. It's not just racism, it's literally anything they can find. If you don't think that trannies are women, they'll take your guns.

    Replies: @L Woods, @istevefan, @anonymous, @M. Hartley

    Good, important find. Thanks.

  67. @Anonymous
    @trelane


    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.
     
    Is it wise to import alien races who are more clever than you?

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @bomag

    The West is inviting both an immigrant underclass and an overclass, which are equally problematic.

  68. @Ben tillman
    @Forbes

    I thought the “full unemployment” bit was quite good.

    Replies: @M. Hartley

    Good catch. It flew right by me.

  69. @King Baeksu
    @trelane

    It seems you haven't read Nagle's article, which notes that there is plenty of "high-IQ" migration to the West today. This "brain drain" often negatively impacts the developing world, but it also drives down wages for the native, educated middle classes of the West.

    Unfettered low-skilled migration unfairly impacts minority and uneducated workers in the West, while mass high-skilled migration also unfairly impacts its educated workers. There is a reason why strong majorities in the West favor reduced overall levels of migration, but our elites in their infinite wisdom have decided that they "know better" and choose to ignore popular opinion for now.

    Replies: @M. Hartley

    They can ignore popular opinion because they wield the means for changing popular opinion.

  70. @Lurker
    Lots of people will say they don't actually want unlimited immigration. But then get them to discuss, even in the vaguest terms, where the line should be drawn and they'll run a mile.

    Between them the true believers, virtue signalers and the plain scared ensure that no rational debate happens.

    Replies: @M. Hartley, @SWVirginian

    There is also the fact that the argument is always framed in terms of “immigrants are good” vs “immigrants are bad”.

    If I can show you one or two good immigrants, it proves that immigrants are good. If you try and show one or two bad ones, it means that you are a Racist Nazi.

    You never ever hear them addressing the question of whether or not 100 million immigrants are good or not.

  71. @Tiny Duck
    @istevefan

    False equivalency
    The 14th deals with people

    The 2nd deals with things

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @M. Hartley

    Can’t wait to set you loose on the Ten Commandments..

  72. @SimpleSong
    Borders form naturally. If open borders happens at the nation state level, you'd better believe borders are going to re-form spontaneously around some other organizational unit.

    Here's what this will look like in practice. Open borders, if implemented, will totally collapse the welfare state and severely damage things that require high-trust societies to work well. Public education, public health, public safety, etc., will all become total train wrecks, and things like health care will start to work really poorly even if you have money and are using private insurance. Things like social security, unemployment insurance, etc., will be fully or partially defunded, out of necessity. Of course we already have semi-open borders, and this is already happening.

    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum. They will have some way of being choosy about their members, and will compete to recruit a relatively high functioning cohort. This cohort will fund the organization (think tithes not taxes) and in return will get things like education and health care. The organization will only give these services to members, however.
    Voila, you now have a pseudo-border.

    I'm not sure what exact form this will have but I would have to guess they will take the form of religious organizations. They will need to have some way of screening out the rabble and the leeches, instead of actively seeking them out as they currently do.

    Anyway that's the future. Parallel states, or states within-a-state, whatever you want to call it. Exciting times.

    Replies: @Flip, @M. Hartley, @Ximenes

    You have just described, in some detail, what happens when a society is made over by the Chosen People.

  73. @LondonBob
    @istevefan

    The GOP got 17/18 percent of the Jewish vote despite Trump aligning US foreign policy in MENA even more in Israel's interests than any President before.

    Replies: @M. Hartley, @International Jew

    Because, as important as their little mideast enterprise is, the trashing and subjugation of the United States is even more important. Control of the U.S. facilitates almost everything.

  74. @Harry Baldwin
    @Cato

    And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    That's all the left is offering the white proletariat. The non-white element is getting all sorts of benefits and privileges.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    They really aren’t. Look who benefits from Affirmative Action. Not theblack proles, but the talentedtenth. Of course, the real beneficiaries are the “white” elite at the top. AA lets them posture about doing something for blacks while the person who pays the bill for that benefit is a marginal white person, who might have been competition for them.

    It’s why I now support reparations with an immediate end to ALL affirmative action. At least with reparations the black proles will get something, and the white elite will pay something.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    @TomSchmidt

    Your proposal ignores that, legally, affirmative action has nothing to do with making reparations for black slavery or any other historical wrong. It is justified on the principle that racial diversity is a public good.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  75. Wow, the Establishment does listen! And all it took was Brexit, Orban, Trump, the 5-Star/League coalition government in Italy, the rise of the AfD in Germany and the Czechs, Poles and Austrians going rogue.

    Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Cagey Beast

    It's funny how Hillary Clinton, the Guardian, the NYT and the editors at the National Interest all came to the same conclusion, within about 48 hours of one another. Trump's election was more than two years ago but they all realise on the same day that the concerns of White voters are not always pathological?

    Why the Announcement of a Looming White Minority Makes Demographers Nervous
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html

    , @King Baeksu
    @Cagey Beast

    Hillary Clinton: “There are solutions to migration that do not require clamping down on the press, on your political opponents and trying to suborn the judiciary, or seeking financial and political help from Russia to support your political parties and movements.”

    If you asked this insane woman the sum of two plus two, she would give a three-sentence reply, insist the answer was five and then call you a deplorable racist if you disagreed.

  76. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    The immigration invasion issues seems hopeless. But, then again New York City criminal anarchy, racial atrocities seemed hopeless when I lived there in NYC 1985-92 – so many terrible atrocities like the Central Park wilding mob, gang rapists who have now all been freed and given huge tax payer payouts. There was an atrocity of a White tourist from Utah riding the NYC subway to attend the US Open Tennis tournament and some typical “youths” attacked his mother, he defended his mother and the punks murdered him with a knife. Then they casually went to a dance club to dance the night away. They were captured, I don’t know what happened to them.

    The event that made NYC hit bottom and come back up was the anti Jewish pogrom in Crown Heights Brooklyn where a mob of Black “youths” led by none other than Rev. Al Sharpton randomly attacked Jewish people and murdered one Jewish guy Yankel Rosenbaum August 19 to 21, 1991.

    The current Black African American mayor at the time David Dinkins had been elected on a platform to improve race relations to

    “Bring people together” same as Obama.

    Dinkins basically ordered the New York City police to stand down and let the Blacks riot. This proved even too much for New York City’s “Yellow Dog Democrats” including Jewish Liberal voters and Rudolph Guliani was elected NYC Mayor and civilization was restored.

    I thought the Islamic extremist terrorists attacks/slaughters on the World Trade Center in 1993 and 2001 would have a similar change on our nation’s suicidal immigration policies – I thought the fact that ugly, hateful Saudi Islamists like Mohamed Ata being given student visas to attend flight school in Florida – then hi jacking our airplanes, murdering the crew and deliberately crashing the planes in to our/NYC office buildings I thought that event would do what the Crown Heights Brooklyn pogrom did:

    Change our open borders immigration policies.

    But, for some reason the Islamist illegal alien terrorist attacks in 1993, 2001 on New York City didn’t change our immigration policies and instead the Neo Conservative Israeli lobby just spun these attacks as justification for endless US wars/interventions against secular Arabs in Iraq, Syria, Libya etc.

    I guess the key here was the Illegal alien Islamist terrorist attacks on the WTC in 1993, 2001 targeted the American nation as a whole, as opposed to targeting Jewish people like the Crown Heights Brooklyn pogrom.

    If mass 3rd world immigration starts targeting Jewish people in a murderous way, then things will change.

    Anyway, our open borders immigration policies do seem hopeless, but so did just general life in New York City 1985-92. So must have life seemed hopeless under the worst forms of Communism in Eastern Europe – now Eastern Europe looks and sounds great.

  77. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Considering that the legalization of abortion saved the USA from the terrible crime wave attributable to the millions of black lives prevented from birth, it must be considered one of the very few pieces of 1960s/70s American cultural revolution measures which was actually beneficial rather than baleful in its effect.

    Replies: @anonymous, @anon

    Yes, this is true.

    Also, I just “notice” that urban White Libs like to have their own areas look, smell and feel nice and that entails things like

    Urban renewal….. negro removal

    White Libs who vote 100% for Obama, Dems have ethnically cleansed poor Black African Americans of the Chicago South Lakefront – tearing out virtually every last single concrete basketball court and putting in things like sail boat basins, prairie restoration projects.

    There is a brewing conflict between White park nature lovers and the Black Obama/Melanie Hopkins Black political elite that has grabbed a huge chunk of Chicago lakefront park in Jackson park for an Obama Presidential Center including a 27 story high rise – this precious parkland was given to the Obama foundation for free and tax payers are being hit up for $500 million to build the damn thing.

  78. @lhtness
    Regardless of what one thinks of open borders, and regardless of what one thinks of the welfare state, it is blindingly obvious the combining them is totally insane.

    Replies: @Rex Little

    Regardless of what one thinks of open borders, and regardless of what one thinks of the welfare state, it is blindingly obvious the combining them is totally insane.

    My generation of libertarians understood this. It saddens me that today’s don’t seem to. Even if open borders is a libertarian ideal in principle, it makes no sense to pursue it until another libertarian ideal–elimination of the welfare state–has been achieved.

    And in practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly if you let a bunch of people in who want to vote it back.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Rex Little


    And in practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly if you let a bunch of people in who want to vote it back.
     
    In practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly because most people would vote to restore it. Most people want the welfare state. That's something libertarians don't seem able to grasp. Libertarians are a tiny tiny minority ludicrously out of touch with the real world and real people. They're a cult, rather like Scientologists except more irritating.
  79. @SimpleSong
    Borders form naturally. If open borders happens at the nation state level, you'd better believe borders are going to re-form spontaneously around some other organizational unit.

    Here's what this will look like in practice. Open borders, if implemented, will totally collapse the welfare state and severely damage things that require high-trust societies to work well. Public education, public health, public safety, etc., will all become total train wrecks, and things like health care will start to work really poorly even if you have money and are using private insurance. Things like social security, unemployment insurance, etc., will be fully or partially defunded, out of necessity. Of course we already have semi-open borders, and this is already happening.

    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum. They will have some way of being choosy about their members, and will compete to recruit a relatively high functioning cohort. This cohort will fund the organization (think tithes not taxes) and in return will get things like education and health care. The organization will only give these services to members, however.
    Voila, you now have a pseudo-border.

    I'm not sure what exact form this will have but I would have to guess they will take the form of religious organizations. They will need to have some way of screening out the rabble and the leeches, instead of actively seeking them out as they currently do.

    Anyway that's the future. Parallel states, or states within-a-state, whatever you want to call it. Exciting times.

    Replies: @Flip, @M. Hartley, @Ximenes

    At some point, you will see non-state organizations filling the vacuum.

    No they won’t, the federal government will. Then it will be mission accomplished and you will see the borders closed– just like they were in the Soviet Union.

  80. anon[100] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @J.Ross

    Why doesn't Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.

    Replies: @anon, @Harry Baldwin

    Why doesn’t Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.

    i was wondering this too

    after all his mlitary worship and his support of increased military spending they still stab him in the back

  81. @LondonBob
    @istevefan

    The GOP got 17/18 percent of the Jewish vote despite Trump aligning US foreign policy in MENA even more in Israel's interests than any President before.

    Replies: @M. Hartley, @International Jew

    It was like that with Jews in your country and the Labor Party. Now British Jews are 2/3 Tory. Give it time, it’ll happen here too.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @International Jew


    Give it time, it’ll happen here too.
     
    That is the problem. We don't have the time.

    Replies: @notanon

  82. Thanks to Steve for sharing this article.

    I have seen right-wingers try to present the left-wing argument against open borders, but this was written by a real left-winger.

    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.

    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.

    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.

    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article

    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.

    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.

    In any case, this is the sort of thinking that a real paleo liberal would come up with.

    This is one of two recent articles I have seen making the paleo liberal case. The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Paleo Liberal


    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.
     
    yeah this too

    rents are thru the roof where i'm at and of course apartment owners love it
    , @AnotherDad
    @Paleo Liberal


    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.
    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.
    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.
    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article
    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.
    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.
     
    Good comment Paleo.

    The plain--brutally obvious--fact is that mass immigration works against pretty much *every* value that the left claims to value: income equality, decent wages, affordable housing, good schools, gender equality, community, all the environmental stuff, from low impact living, transit, to open space, habitat and species preservation.

    Your #3 is particularly on point. The change in housing affordability in any coastal metropolis, or other "hot" city is striking and is the item that has most stalled or reduced real living standards. It is particularly notable because it turned what used to be America's great living standard strength--cheap land, expansive affordable housing--on its head.

    But you can run down the list of whatever "liberals" are babbling about and mass immigration is working against it.

    Yet ... "diversity", gleeful nation breaking trumps all else. One doesn't have to be a genius to see it--and figure out the agenda and motivation. Anti-nationalism is the immutable core value.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Paleo Liberal


    The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.
     
    Author or title?
  83. Who doesn’t look at 100 Antifa dudes and see at least 92 hurt boys brought up by single mothers?

    Where else could the helpless rage be coming from? When interviewed, they seem genuinely terrified of the “right”, as if the right has some comic book super hero destiny they must stop at all costs. It’s almost a drama queen hysteria. Is this why they are so terrified of the dreaded white male? (And in particular, middle aged white male?) Have they been overhearing a lifetime of mommy’s complaints about absent daddy?

    Obama’s strange dropping of “mommy issues” comment struck me as being window into Obama. It certainly has no bearing on Trump.

    Perhaps the desire to dilute the white male, in particular, by immigration, is associated with the breakdown of the family more than any genuine “values”.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Marat

    well, all the dysfunctional, male druggies and losers, in general, during my children's HS years were all products of single moms....and, I am talking about mostly white guys. Neurotic, crazy and angry - 3 of them are already dead, so your assumption that this makes up Antifa is correct: no well adjusted, healthy, rational, kind young man would salivate at attacking innocent, random people, accusing them of racism/Nazism, etc. It is insane, and, these people should be locked up. At least with advanced facial recognition, many are being destroyed, one by one, by a silent army that is simply, smarter than they are - hahaa, it is sort of a video game: who can capture and "kill" as many Antifa as possible!

  84. If I watched this farce from a safe distance, I’d shake my head and make some sort of comment about human stupidity. But since I and my children and descendants will live with the demographic reality, I’m just too disgusted and heartsick.

    Knowing about HBD just makes it worse. Inviting people to the New World on the condition that they work or starve gets you one thing in the generations down the line. Selecting people with IQs of 85, who already have the language and culture that they want, who have their hands out, who want to be pampered and given free everything, will get you an entirely different result.

    The Left and the Democrats who support them are the worst traitors in American history.

    I’ll get back to snarky comments next time.

    • Replies: @Marat
    @Anon7

    Maybe the more accurate term is dependant rather than the preferred term immigrant.

  85. Nagle wrote,

    “The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war….”

    I’ve noticed immigration enthusiasts have a couple new explanations (like how snake-oil is a panacea) about why immigration is good for blue-collar Americans.

    It goes like this: Immigrants are unskilled and don’t speak english very well. Someone needs to oversee them and/or interact with the public. Enter the American worker who is not threatened by unskilled non-english speakers. They also say that without immigrant workers, some industry sectors operating on thin margins and in a labor market simply wouldnt have enough workers PERIOD and would go under thereby destroying any and all jobs US workers held in that sector.

    color me skeptical. Is there any down-side to immigration? Or is it all cloudless glory?

  86. @Paleo Liberal
    Thanks to Steve for sharing this article.

    I have seen right-wingers try to present the left-wing argument against open borders, but this was written by a real left-winger.

    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.

    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.

    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.

    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article

    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.

    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.

    In any case, this is the sort of thinking that a real paleo liberal would come up with.

    This is one of two recent articles I have seen making the paleo liberal case. The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.

    Replies: @anon, @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.

    yeah this too

    rents are thru the roof where i’m at and of course apartment owners love it

  87. @Paleo Liberal
    Thanks to Steve for sharing this article.

    I have seen right-wingers try to present the left-wing argument against open borders, but this was written by a real left-winger.

    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.

    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.

    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.

    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article

    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.

    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.

    In any case, this is the sort of thinking that a real paleo liberal would come up with.

    This is one of two recent articles I have seen making the paleo liberal case. The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.

    Replies: @anon, @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.
    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.
    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.
    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article
    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.
    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.

    Good comment Paleo.

    The plain–brutally obvious–fact is that mass immigration works against pretty much *every* value that the left claims to value: income equality, decent wages, affordable housing, good schools, gender equality, community, all the environmental stuff, from low impact living, transit, to open space, habitat and species preservation.

    Your #3 is particularly on point. The change in housing affordability in any coastal metropolis, or other “hot” city is striking and is the item that has most stalled or reduced real living standards. It is particularly notable because it turned what used to be America’s great living standard strength–cheap land, expansive affordable housing–on its head.

    But you can run down the list of whatever “liberals” are babbling about and mass immigration is working against it.

    Yet … “diversity”, gleeful nation breaking trumps all else. One doesn’t have to be a genius to see it–and figure out the agenda and motivation. Anti-nationalism is the immutable core value.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad


    One doesn’t have to be a genius to see it–and figure out the agenda and motivation. Anti-nationalism is the immutable core value.
     
    Not quite, AnotherDad. The agenda and motivation isn't anti-nationalism per se; it is anti-yournationalism.

    Ask these alien migrants or some of the people promoting their migration into the West if they support the mass movement of aliens into their countries of origin or "ancestral homelands" and see what response you get.
  88. The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. )
    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs, even if they themselves have to immigrate to other states. Yet they will still resent having to make those choices. But it has always been the case that individuals do not have total control of their destiny, and fear and resent that fact.
    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration. It only grants authority over uniform rules of naturalization. The 10 th Amendment states that which is not an enumerated power is left to the States, and the people.
    If only we would pay attention to that old rag, we might make some progress on this issue!

    • Replies: @anon
    @Taxhonestyguy


    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
     
    plus your new refrigerator spies on you
    , @notanon
    @Taxhonestyguy


    It also expands productivity
     
    importing cheap labor lowers productivity

    lowers the cost of goods and services
     
    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500...
     
    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity.
     
    if it wasn't self-serving GOPe nonsense

    The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs
     
    no they don't - this is from one of those fake GOPe studies where the bottom 10% of the working white population get displaced and they take the new *average* (i.e after the bottom 10% has been removed) and then say the average income etc went up as a result of immigration and not because they took the bottom 10% out of the calculation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Taxhonestyguy


    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. ) For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 350 in their money.
     
    It can also increase demand for goods and services.

    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon said law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs
     
    Could you substantiate this "fact" with some empirical and theoretical evidence?
    , @bomag
    @Taxhonestyguy


    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration.
     
    It allows us to petition the gov't for redress of grievances.

    increasing the supply of labor... also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services...
     
    As far as it meets the assumptions. Problem is, many immigrants don't participate in the labor force in a substantial way. In my area, for every worker we get roughly five hanger-ons that live off the one, and whatever welfare/crime they can exploit.

    Economists seem a little too proud about winning the immigration debate while our highways clog; the grid becomes less reliable; more locks are put on their doors; public space shrinks; etc.

    Replies: @notanon

  89. @Lurker
    Lots of people will say they don't actually want unlimited immigration. But then get them to discuss, even in the vaguest terms, where the line should be drawn and they'll run a mile.

    Between them the true believers, virtue signalers and the plain scared ensure that no rational debate happens.

    Replies: @M. Hartley, @SWVirginian

    ‘Lots of people will say they don’t actually want unlimited immigration. But then get them to discuss, even in the vaguest terms, where the line should be drawn and they’ll run a mile.”

    Amen, Brother.

    http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/rd-immigration-advocates-are-there-any-limits

  90. @Anon7
    If I watched this farce from a safe distance, I’d shake my head and make some sort of comment about human stupidity. But since I and my children and descendants will live with the demographic reality, I’m just too disgusted and heartsick.

    Knowing about HBD just makes it worse. Inviting people to the New World on the condition that they work or starve gets you one thing in the generations down the line. Selecting people with IQs of 85, who already have the language and culture that they want, who have their hands out, who want to be pampered and given free everything, will get you an entirely different result.

    The Left and the Democrats who support them are the worst traitors in American history.

    I’ll get back to snarky comments next time.

    Replies: @Marat

    Maybe the more accurate term is dependant rather than the preferred term immigrant.

  91. Bernie Sanders, the senator famously showed his vintage when he replied, “Open borders? No. That’s a Koch brothers proposal.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Sean

    That may be the moment Sanders lost.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Sean

  92. @TomSchmidt
    @Harry Baldwin

    They really aren't. Look who benefits from Affirmative Action. Not theblack proles, but the talentedtenth. Of course, the real beneficiaries are the "white" elite at the top. AA lets them posture about doing something for blacks while the person who pays the bill for that benefit is a marginal white person, who might have been competition for them.

    It's why I now support reparations with an immediate end to ALL affirmative action. At least with reparations the black proles will get something, and the white elite will pay something.

    Replies: @Lowe

    Your proposal ignores that, legally, affirmative action has nothing to do with making reparations for black slavery or any other historical wrong. It is justified on the principle that racial diversity is a public good.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Lowe

    Legally, ever since Bakke, what you write is true. It got started with the sentiment from LBJ:
    ''You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, 'You are free to compete with all the others,' and still justly believe that you have been completely fair."

    It's doubtful we can get rid of AA now, even with people like Elizabeth Warren exploiting it for points as an American Indian. So we will be stuck with an arbitrary transfer from unnamed white people to AA recipients for the benefit of protecting other white people from competition.

    Replies: @anon

  93. @International Jew
    @LondonBob

    It was like that with Jews in your country and the Labor Party. Now British Jews are 2/3 Tory. Give it time, it'll happen here too.

    Replies: @istevefan

    Give it time, it’ll happen here too.

    That is the problem. We don’t have the time.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @istevefan

    Jewish voters in the UK didn't change their opinions and most still support mass immigration and globohomo - they only shifted from voting "Left" to "Right" (which in the UK is mostly meaningless in policy terms) over the Left becoming too anti-Israel (as a result of the Muslim immigration they originally supported).

    i expect the same thing will happen in the US as more Muslims get elected to public office but if the shift is just SJW to GOPe then it doesn't help.

    Replies: @istevefan

  94. @Taxhonestyguy
    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. )
    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs, even if they themselves have to immigrate to other states. Yet they will still resent having to make those choices. But it has always been the case that individuals do not have total control of their destiny, and fear and resent that fact.
    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration. It only grants authority over uniform rules of naturalization. The 10 th Amendment states that which is not an enumerated power is left to the States, and the people.
    If only we would pay attention to that old rag, we might make some progress on this issue!

    Replies: @anon, @notanon, @Anonymous, @bomag

    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.

    plus your new refrigerator spies on you

  95. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @J.Ross

    Why doesn't Trump dismiss Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan and replace him with a patriot? What is the downside? Because after a sequence of dismissals, eventually you will arrive at an American patriot.

    Replies: @anon, @Harry Baldwin

    Probably have to get down to the colonel level. Obama purged the military of top brass who were not compliant with his views, for example Gen. Carter Ham., who was relieved as head of U.S. Africa Command after only a year and a half because he disagreed with orders not to mount a rescue mission in response to the attack in Benghazi.

  96. Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @(((They))) Live

    She was born in the US when her parents were living there.

    , @Anonymous
    @(((They))) Live


    Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something
     
    Isn't Nagle an Ashkenazi surname?

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

  97. Leave it to the Clintons to try to adopt popular ideas of the opposition. Remember welfare reform? Super predaters? Hillary, the dried up old gasbag could win on an anti immigration, America First platform. Its not like it would violate any of her principles.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @anon

    Yes, her first statement after the Black Lives Matter sniper finished his work was to say, basically, that he had a point. Will she be tweeting out the 14 words during the next election if a White Nationalist sniper carries out a massacre in a key swing state?

  98. @Cagey Beast
    Wow, the Establishment does listen! And all it took was Brexit, Orban, Trump, the 5-Star/League coalition government in Italy, the rise of the AfD in Germany and the Czechs, Poles and Austrians going rogue.

    Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @King Baeksu

    It’s funny how Hillary Clinton, the Guardian, the NYT and the editors at the National Interest all came to the same conclusion, within about 48 hours of one another. Trump’s election was more than two years ago but they all realise on the same day that the concerns of White voters are not always pathological?

    Why the Announcement of a Looming White Minority Makes Demographers Nervous
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html

  99. @(((They))) Live
    Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Anonymous

    She was born in the US when her parents were living there.

  100. @anon
    Leave it to the Clintons to try to adopt popular ideas of the opposition. Remember welfare reform? Super predaters? Hillary, the dried up old gasbag could win on an anti immigration, America First platform. Its not like it would violate any of her principles.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Yes, her first statement after the Black Lives Matter sniper finished his work was to say, basically, that he had a point. Will she be tweeting out the 14 words during the next election if a White Nationalist sniper carries out a massacre in a key swing state?

    • Agree: Desiderius
  101. @Russell Upvittles
    @Desiderius

    "Gaslighting hammer"?
    As far as metaphors go, this is the front half of a Corvette welded onto a Ford dualie rear end. Nice work!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Coemgen, @Desiderius

    The allusion is to the saying that if all one has is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

  102. @Sarah Toga
    Does the President have authority to set the number of legal immigrants?

    How is that number determined? Under what law?

    I cannot believe it is untouchable.
    It is just another public policy. Like painting lane stripes on roads.

    Replies: @epebble

    No. The current law is Immigration Act of 1990 (Pub.L. 101–649, 104 Stat. 4978, enacted November 29, 1990). Also known as Title 8 of USC Chapter 12: Immigration and Nationality.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-104/pdf/STATUTE-104-Pg4978.pdf

  103. @John Pepple
    @istevefan

    The Democrats abandoned labor over issues relating to blacks and the Vietnam War. In the 1960s, Democrats began pushing for changes for blacks, but it often meant more crime in the neighborhoods of the white working class as blacks moved in. The Democrats could have tried to deal directly with this issue, but they decided to be soft on crime instead, seeing criminals as victims of the society, and this meant seeing working-class whites as racists.

    As for Vietnam, the white working class had no interest in being anti-war, or if they did, they didn't like the anti-military and anti-American tone the Democrats began adopting. I heard a certain chant a lot in college back in the late 1960s and early 1970s:

    Same enemy, same fight,
    Workers and students must unite.

    But they never did unite and instead went off in separate directions.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.
     
    Class, snobbery, and perceptions of morality are tied up in political identity. If "most Republicans" see working class White people as racist, they don't share a political identity with them.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  104. @Cagey Beast
    Wow, the Establishment does listen! And all it took was Brexit, Orban, Trump, the 5-Star/League coalition government in Italy, the rise of the AfD in Germany and the Czechs, Poles and Austrians going rogue.

    Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @King Baeksu

    Hillary Clinton: “There are solutions to migration that do not require clamping down on the press, on your political opponents and trying to suborn the judiciary, or seeking financial and political help from Russia to support your political parties and movements.”

    If you asked this insane woman the sum of two plus two, she would give a three-sentence reply, insist the answer was five and then call you a deplorable racist if you disagreed.

  105. @Marat
    Who doesn’t look at 100 Antifa dudes and see at least 92 hurt boys brought up by single mothers?

    Where else could the helpless rage be coming from? When interviewed, they seem genuinely terrified of the “right”, as if the right has some comic book super hero destiny they must stop at all costs. It’s almost a drama queen hysteria. Is this why they are so terrified of the dreaded white male? (And in particular, middle aged white male?) Have they been overhearing a lifetime of mommy’s complaints about absent daddy?

    Obama’s strange dropping of “mommy issues” comment struck me as being window into Obama. It certainly has no bearing on Trump.

    Perhaps the desire to dilute the white male, in particular, by immigration, is associated with the breakdown of the family more than any genuine “values”.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    well, all the dysfunctional, male druggies and losers, in general, during my children’s HS years were all products of single moms….and, I am talking about mostly white guys. Neurotic, crazy and angry – 3 of them are already dead, so your assumption that this makes up Antifa is correct: no well adjusted, healthy, rational, kind young man would salivate at attacking innocent, random people, accusing them of racism/Nazism, etc. It is insane, and, these people should be locked up. At least with advanced facial recognition, many are being destroyed, one by one, by a silent army that is simply, smarter than they are – hahaa, it is sort of a video game: who can capture and “kill” as many Antifa as possible!

  106. @Sean

    Bernie Sanders, the senator famously showed his vintage when he replied, “Open borders? No. That’s a Koch brothers proposal.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b2-QWMokSc

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    That may be the moment Sanders lost.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Paleo Liberal

    It was the moment, or one of the moments, that Sanders showed he didn't have the spine to lead the country, but the real moment he lost is when the DNC decided that Hillary was going to win, and that occurred several months earlier.

    , @Sean
    @Paleo Liberal


    https://www.microsoft.com/itshowcase/Article/Content/997/Creating-an-immigration-workflow-management-solution-with-Dynamics-365
    To manage immigration and travel issues for visa-dependent employees, Microsoft created a streamlined solution based on configurable Dynamics 365 features. The solution manages complex immigration workflows, smartly creates and reuses forms and documents, and integrates with 12 partner systems. It helps the immigration team optimize its processes and lets our employees spend more time on their important strategic work.
     
    Saunders got disrupted in Seattle, and that is the stronghold of one of the hugely profitable firms that Saunders thought, and still thinks, should stop underpaying its workers and start paying some TAX. Seattle and San Francisco are big on black lives matter as a way of attacking the real left.

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/313331
    Amazon paid zero U.S. income tax for 2017, primarily due to its legal action of taking advantage of tax credits and breaks on executive stock options. Here's how Amazon reduced its tax burden to zero, and could even get a refund:

    Tax credits. While tax deductions reduce your taxable income, tax credits can directly put money in your pocket at tax time. Amazon receives tax credits for research and development on new products, on services such as Alexa, Amazon Go and on technologies like computer vision. Aaccording to FactSet data reported by Recode, Amazon spent $22.6 billion on R&D in 2017, which is more than any other U.S. company last year (followed by Alphabet, Intel, Microsoft and Apple).
     

  107. “People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.”

    Something Nagle really needs to ponder

    I’d bet good money that Angela Nagle is a distant relation of Burke which IMO makes her left wing BS even worse. SAD

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @(((They))) Live


    “People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.”

    Something Nagle really needs to ponder
     

    Who wrote that?

    I’d bet good money that Angela Nagle is a distant relation of Burke which IMO makes her left wing BS even worse. SA
     
    Nagle is an Ashkenazi surname, isn't it?
  108. @Taxhonestyguy
    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. )
    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs, even if they themselves have to immigrate to other states. Yet they will still resent having to make those choices. But it has always been the case that individuals do not have total control of their destiny, and fear and resent that fact.
    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration. It only grants authority over uniform rules of naturalization. The 10 th Amendment states that which is not an enumerated power is left to the States, and the people.
    If only we would pay attention to that old rag, we might make some progress on this issue!

    Replies: @anon, @notanon, @Anonymous, @bomag

    It also expands productivity

    importing cheap labor lowers productivity

    lowers the cost of goods and services

    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500…

    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity.

    if it wasn’t self-serving GOPe nonsense

    The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs

    no they don’t – this is from one of those fake GOPe studies where the bottom 10% of the working white population get displaced and they take the new *average* (i.e after the bottom 10% has been removed) and then say the average income etc went up as a result of immigration and not because they took the bottom 10% out of the calculation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @notanon


    importing cheap labor lowers productivity
     
    By definition, cheaper labor inputs translate to higher productivity.

    Replies: @notanon

  109. @istevefan
    @International Jew


    Give it time, it’ll happen here too.
     
    That is the problem. We don't have the time.

    Replies: @notanon

    Jewish voters in the UK didn’t change their opinions and most still support mass immigration and globohomo – they only shifted from voting “Left” to “Right” (which in the UK is mostly meaningless in policy terms) over the Left becoming too anti-Israel (as a result of the Muslim immigration they originally supported).

    i expect the same thing will happen in the US as more Muslims get elected to public office but if the shift is just SJW to GOPe then it doesn’t help.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @notanon

    Point taken.

  110. @Lowe
    @TomSchmidt

    Your proposal ignores that, legally, affirmative action has nothing to do with making reparations for black slavery or any other historical wrong. It is justified on the principle that racial diversity is a public good.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    Legally, ever since Bakke, what you write is true. It got started with the sentiment from LBJ:
    ”You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘You are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.”

    It’s doubtful we can get rid of AA now, even with people like Elizabeth Warren exploiting it for points as an American Indian. So we will be stuck with an arbitrary transfer from unnamed white people to AA recipients for the benefit of protecting other white people from competition.

    • Replies: @anon
    @TomSchmidt

    It’s doubtful we can get rid of AA now, even with people like Elizabeth Warren exploiting it for points as an American Indian.

    Warren is descended from American Indians and other heritage Americans. If anyone deserves to benefit from a quota, she does.

  111. @Anonymous
    @trelane


    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.
     
    Is it wise to import alien races who are more clever than you?

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @bomag

    Yes, it seems high IQ foreigners help engineer things to bring in the lower quintiles of their brethren.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @bomag

    Why would they do otherwise? On what planet is it normal to favor clever strangers over your dim kinsfolk?

  112. @bomag
    @Anonymous

    Yes, it seems high IQ foreigners help engineer things to bring in the lower quintiles of their brethren.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Why would they do otherwise? On what planet is it normal to favor clever strangers over your dim kinsfolk?

    • Agree: bomag
  113. @Anonymous
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Considering that the legalization of abortion saved the USA from the terrible crime wave attributable to the millions of black lives prevented from birth, it must be considered one of the very few pieces of 1960s/70s American cultural revolution measures which was actually beneficial rather than baleful in its effect.

    Replies: @anonymous, @anon

    So why does the United States have the highest incarceration rates in the world, both in absolute numbers and relative numbers, you racist?

  114. @Paleo Liberal
    @Sean

    That may be the moment Sanders lost.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Sean

    It was the moment, or one of the moments, that Sanders showed he didn’t have the spine to lead the country, but the real moment he lost is when the DNC decided that Hillary was going to win, and that occurred several months earlier.

  115. Anonymous [AKA "Bill R."] says:

    I don’t know any on the right who advocates for closed borders. We are against ILLEGAL immigration. These people wishing to jump the border illegally need to go back home and get in line BEHIND those who are trying to come here the right way.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    I don’t know any on the right who advocates for closed borders. We are against ILLEGAL immigration.
     
    There speaks the voice of cuckservatism. There's nothing wrong with population replacement and the destruction of society as long as it's done legally.
  116. @Paleo Liberal
    Thanks to Steve for sharing this article.

    I have seen right-wingers try to present the left-wing argument against open borders, but this was written by a real left-winger.

    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.

    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.

    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.

    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article

    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.

    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.

    In any case, this is the sort of thinking that a real paleo liberal would come up with.

    This is one of two recent articles I have seen making the paleo liberal case. The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.

    Replies: @anon, @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

    The other is an article in Atlantic about how the Democrats are abandoning the white working class, which was once the core of the party.

    Author or title?

  117. @Paleo Liberal
    @Sean

    That may be the moment Sanders lost.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Sean

    https://www.microsoft.com/itshowcase/Article/Content/997/Creating-an-immigration-workflow-management-solution-with-Dynamics-365
    To manage immigration and travel issues for visa-dependent employees, Microsoft created a streamlined solution based on configurable Dynamics 365 features. The solution manages complex immigration workflows, smartly creates and reuses forms and documents, and integrates with 12 partner systems. It helps the immigration team optimize its processes and lets our employees spend more time on their important strategic work.

    Saunders got disrupted in Seattle, and that is the stronghold of one of the hugely profitable firms that Saunders thought, and still thinks, should stop underpaying its workers and start paying some TAX. Seattle and San Francisco are big on black lives matter as a way of attacking the real left.

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/313331
    Amazon paid zero U.S. income tax for 2017, primarily due to its legal action of taking advantage of tax credits and breaks on executive stock options. Here’s how Amazon reduced its tax burden to zero, and could even get a refund:

    Tax credits. While tax deductions reduce your taxable income, tax credits can directly put money in your pocket at tax time. Amazon receives tax credits for research and development on new products, on services such as Alexa, Amazon Go and on technologies like computer vision. Aaccording to FactSet data reported by Recode, Amazon spent $22.6 billion on R&D in 2017, which is more than any other U.S. company last year (followed by Alphabet, Intel, Microsoft and Apple).

  118. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    @Paleo Liberal


    I found it to be the best economic analysis of the left-wing case against massive immigration.
    First, the law of supply and demand. If there are more workers, the wages go down.
    Second, the social impacts. When foreigners are brought in, the workers are too divided.
    There are a couple of strong left-wing arguments against immigration NOT in this article
    A. The cost of housing increases when there are far more people, making life more difficult for those of us who are not filthy rich.
    B. The environmental consequences of mass immigration, pointed out so well by Gaylord Nelson.
     
    Good comment Paleo.

    The plain--brutally obvious--fact is that mass immigration works against pretty much *every* value that the left claims to value: income equality, decent wages, affordable housing, good schools, gender equality, community, all the environmental stuff, from low impact living, transit, to open space, habitat and species preservation.

    Your #3 is particularly on point. The change in housing affordability in any coastal metropolis, or other "hot" city is striking and is the item that has most stalled or reduced real living standards. It is particularly notable because it turned what used to be America's great living standard strength--cheap land, expansive affordable housing--on its head.

    But you can run down the list of whatever "liberals" are babbling about and mass immigration is working against it.

    Yet ... "diversity", gleeful nation breaking trumps all else. One doesn't have to be a genius to see it--and figure out the agenda and motivation. Anti-nationalism is the immutable core value.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    One doesn’t have to be a genius to see it–and figure out the agenda and motivation. Anti-nationalism is the immutable core value.

    Not quite, AnotherDad. The agenda and motivation isn’t anti-nationalism per se; it is anti-yournationalism.

    Ask these alien migrants or some of the people promoting their migration into the West if they support the mass movement of aliens into their countries of origin or “ancestral homelands” and see what response you get.

  119. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @Taxhonestyguy
    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. )
    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs, even if they themselves have to immigrate to other states. Yet they will still resent having to make those choices. But it has always been the case that individuals do not have total control of their destiny, and fear and resent that fact.
    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration. It only grants authority over uniform rules of naturalization. The 10 th Amendment states that which is not an enumerated power is left to the States, and the people.
    If only we would pay attention to that old rag, we might make some progress on this issue!

    Replies: @anon, @notanon, @Anonymous, @bomag

    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. ) For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 350 in their money.

    It can also increase demand for goods and services.

    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon said law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs

    Could you substantiate this “fact” with some empirical and theoretical evidence?

  120. @(((They))) Live
    Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Anonymous

    Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something

    Isn’t Nagle an Ashkenazi surname?

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    @Anonymous

    Not in Ireland its not

    its not a common name in Ireland mainly found in Cork AFAIK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano_Nagle

    Irelands most famous Nagle

  121. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @(((They))) Live
    “People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.”

    Something Nagle really needs to ponder

    I'd bet good money that Angela Nagle is a distant relation of Burke which IMO makes her left wing BS even worse. SAD

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.”

    Something Nagle really needs to ponder

    Who wrote that?

    I’d bet good money that Angela Nagle is a distant relation of Burke which IMO makes her left wing BS even worse. SA

    Nagle is an Ashkenazi surname, isn’t it?

  122. @notanon
    @Taxhonestyguy


    It also expands productivity
     
    importing cheap labor lowers productivity

    lowers the cost of goods and services
     
    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500...
     
    offset by lower wages and higher housing costs

    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity.
     
    if it wasn't self-serving GOPe nonsense

    The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs
     
    no they don't - this is from one of those fake GOPe studies where the bottom 10% of the working white population get displaced and they take the new *average* (i.e after the bottom 10% has been removed) and then say the average income etc went up as a result of immigration and not because they took the bottom 10% out of the calculation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    importing cheap labor lowers productivity

    By definition, cheaper labor inputs translate to higher productivity.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Anonymous

    nope - it increases profitability for the employer but that's not the same thing

    1) importing people to do work with lower than average productivity automatically lowers average productivity - it's like if you had a group of people with an average height of 6' and then add additional people who were all 5' - the average height of the group goes down

    2) longer term the availability of cheap labor reduces the incentive to tech up low productivity work

    Replies: @Anonymous

  123. @TomSchmidt
    @Lowe

    Legally, ever since Bakke, what you write is true. It got started with the sentiment from LBJ:
    ''You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, 'You are free to compete with all the others,' and still justly believe that you have been completely fair."

    It's doubtful we can get rid of AA now, even with people like Elizabeth Warren exploiting it for points as an American Indian. So we will be stuck with an arbitrary transfer from unnamed white people to AA recipients for the benefit of protecting other white people from competition.

    Replies: @anon

    It’s doubtful we can get rid of AA now, even with people like Elizabeth Warren exploiting it for points as an American Indian.

    Warren is descended from American Indians and other heritage Americans. If anyone deserves to benefit from a quota, she does.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  124. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    @John Pepple

    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.

    Class, snobbery, and perceptions of morality are tied up in political identity. If “most Republicans” see working class White people as racist, they don’t share a political identity with them.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    No, it’s not.

    That’s why they’ve flipped to the Ds.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  125. @Taxhonestyguy
    The argument that increasing the supply of labor drives down the cost of labor is only one side of the equation. It also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services, except those services dominated by government (eg education health care, the military etc. )
    For example, a high end refrigerator that cost your parents $500 in their money now costs you $1000 in your money, but adjusted for inflation it is 3500 in their money.
    If you believe in supply side economics to justify tax cuts, you shouldn’t abandon Says law when it comes to labor and productivity. The fact is, and always has been, that those who lose low paying jobs to immigrant labor often acquire better jobs, even if they themselves have to immigrate to other states. Yet they will still resent having to make those choices. But it has always been the case that individuals do not have total control of their destiny, and fear and resent that fact.
    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration. It only grants authority over uniform rules of naturalization. The 10 th Amendment states that which is not an enumerated power is left to the States, and the people.
    If only we would pay attention to that old rag, we might make some progress on this issue!

    Replies: @anon, @notanon, @Anonymous, @bomag

    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration.

    It allows us to petition the gov’t for redress of grievances.

    increasing the supply of labor… also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services…

    As far as it meets the assumptions. Problem is, many immigrants don’t participate in the labor force in a substantial way. In my area, for every worker we get roughly five hanger-ons that live off the one, and whatever welfare/crime they can exploit.

    Economists seem a little too proud about winning the immigration debate while our highways clog; the grid becomes less reliable; more locks are put on their doors; public space shrinks; etc.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @bomag


    Economists seem a little too proud about winning the immigration debate
     
    they didn't really - some oligarchs paid some economic think tanks for BS studies which the oligarch's media then massively promoted and economists went along with it cos they didn't want to be called racist - it's all a scam.
  126. @Forbes
    @Altai

    Is Goodhart's book "The Road to Somewhere" any good?

    Replies: @Edward

    I would recommend it. As someone who is generally very socially liberal, fairly pro-immigration if stringent guest-worker conditions are met, and who voted Remain in the EU referendum (what am I doing here, you may ask!), it was an eye-opener for me.

    I didn’t update my views all that much, but it did illustrate very well the fact that people who hold my views are in a minority. Hence why I think reversing the result of the EU referendum would be a disaster.

    • Replies: @LostHopeless
    @Edward

    Are you one of those guys who are A-OK with legal immigration as long as the gravy train keeps running (on time) but care not one whiff about the dissolving local ethnic pool of the host nation?

    That is to say make Canada like the UK as long as only "skilled immigrants" come in? I work in tech in the US and know very well how even alphabet soup visas for supposedly "skilled" workers also get abused by people coming in from very low trust countries with a penchant for "gaming" the system and exploiting the loopholes. Do you care about the pagan customs they bring with them and how that will play out politically once they get their lobby up and running in the power centers. Check center for immigration studies and the fabulous work they've done in opposition to highly placed corporate lobbies like "immigration voice" and the likes to check for the numbers.

    For you and other "libertarian" minded people here, I'd genuinely like to know if for you a nation is nothing more than a factory floor (oops, wrong analogy, was more apt in the 70s) or say an investment bank? Is racial homogeneity and the high trust culture it inspires nothing for guys like you?

    Canada will cease to be white majority in the urban centers in say 2 decades at max. You will then see the dynamics that made India, Nigeria and China (all vastly different but still low trust societies with Nigeria < India < China) such wonderful places to live and work play out. It is probably then you'd realize that no matter how much the "muh IQ" and "muh skillz" crowd (like you) tries to downplay the Trojan threat to the white race here, the damage would be real and permanent and plain as day for all to see

  127. @notanon
    @istevefan

    Jewish voters in the UK didn't change their opinions and most still support mass immigration and globohomo - they only shifted from voting "Left" to "Right" (which in the UK is mostly meaningless in policy terms) over the Left becoming too anti-Israel (as a result of the Muslim immigration they originally supported).

    i expect the same thing will happen in the US as more Muslims get elected to public office but if the shift is just SJW to GOPe then it doesn't help.

    Replies: @istevefan

    Point taken.

  128. @Anonymous
    @(((They))) Live


    Angela Nagle is claiming to be the child of immigrants, was she born in the UK and then moved back to Ireland or something
     
    Isn't Nagle an Ashkenazi surname?

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

    Not in Ireland its not

    its not a common name in Ireland mainly found in Cork AFAIK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano_Nagle

    Irelands most famous Nagle

  129. @Anonymous
    @notanon


    importing cheap labor lowers productivity
     
    By definition, cheaper labor inputs translate to higher productivity.

    Replies: @notanon

    nope – it increases profitability for the employer but that’s not the same thing

    1) importing people to do work with lower than average productivity automatically lowers average productivity – it’s like if you had a group of people with an average height of 6′ and then add additional people who were all 5′ – the average height of the group goes down

    2) longer term the availability of cheap labor reduces the incentive to tech up low productivity work

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @notanon


    1) importing people to do work with lower than average productivity automatically lowers average productivity
     
    But that isn't what you wrote. You wrote that the labor inputs were less expensive.
  130. @bomag
    @Taxhonestyguy


    The US Constitution does not authorize the federal government to centrally plan immigration.
     
    It allows us to petition the gov't for redress of grievances.

    increasing the supply of labor... also expands productivity and lowers the cost of goods and services...
     
    As far as it meets the assumptions. Problem is, many immigrants don't participate in the labor force in a substantial way. In my area, for every worker we get roughly five hanger-ons that live off the one, and whatever welfare/crime they can exploit.

    Economists seem a little too proud about winning the immigration debate while our highways clog; the grid becomes less reliable; more locks are put on their doors; public space shrinks; etc.

    Replies: @notanon

    Economists seem a little too proud about winning the immigration debate

    they didn’t really – some oligarchs paid some economic think tanks for BS studies which the oligarch’s media then massively promoted and economists went along with it cos they didn’t want to be called racist – it’s all a scam.

  131. @Cato

    The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds.

     

    She makes a lot of sense. Illegal immigration was encouraged by business and devastated the lower middle class. If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration. And really, if all the left can offer the proletariat is a feeling of moral superiority (AKA anti-racism) then they are not offering much.

    Replies: @L Woods, @Harry Baldwin, @dfordoom

    If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose illegal immigration.

    If you are on the side of the proletariat, you should oppose immigration. Legal immigration is a much bigger threat than illegal immigration.

  132. @Tusk
    I've seen bountiful posters pasted all over the cities in Australia from Socialists groups saying that exact spiel: Nobody is illegal, open borders for all. I suppose in one sense the traditional leftist agenda is against it, but radical free thinkers (morons) like Ocasio-Cortez will pump the boat full of holes until it sinks I suppose.

    Replies: @Pittsburgh Thatcherite, @dfordoom

    I’ve seen bountiful posters pasted all over the cities in Australia from Socialists groups saying that exact spiel: Nobody is illegal, open borders for all. I suppose in one sense the traditional leftist agenda is against it

    The leftists who support open borders (and identity politics) are useful idiots for the bankers and billionaires.

    There’s nothing remotely left-wing about open borders or identity politics. Open borders and identity politics are anti-leftist ideas.

  133. @Anonymous
    "Trade unions for inclusion of refugees"

    https://www.etuc.org/en/pressrelease/trade-unions-inclusion-refugees


    "Trade unionists unite in Rome for refugees' rights"

    https://www.education4refugees.org/updates/257-trade-unionists-unite-in-rome-for-refugees-rights

    Replies: @dfordoom

    “Trade unions for inclusion of refugees”

    Trade union leaderships betrayed their own members decades ago by embracing identity politics and environmentalism and similar nonsense. Ordinary trade unionists never did support that sort of stupidity.

    Why did the leaderships betray their own members? Mostly likely they were simply bribed to do so. The corporate sector wanted trade unions neutralised and I’m sure they were happy to pay labour leaders for selling out.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @dfordoom

    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  134. @Rex Little
    @lhtness


    Regardless of what one thinks of open borders, and regardless of what one thinks of the welfare state, it is blindingly obvious the combining them is totally insane.
     
    My generation of libertarians understood this. It saddens me that today's don't seem to. Even if open borders is a libertarian ideal in principle, it makes no sense to pursue it until another libertarian ideal--elimination of the welfare state--has been achieved.

    And in practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly if you let a bunch of people in who want to vote it back.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    And in practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly if you let a bunch of people in who want to vote it back.

    In practice, if somehow the welfare state was eliminated, it would return very quickly because most people would vote to restore it. Most people want the welfare state. That’s something libertarians don’t seem able to grasp. Libertarians are a tiny tiny minority ludicrously out of touch with the real world and real people. They’re a cult, rather like Scientologists except more irritating.

  135. @Anonymous
    I don’t know any on the right who advocates for closed borders. We are against ILLEGAL immigration. These people wishing to jump the border illegally need to go back home and get in line BEHIND those who are trying to come here the right way.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    I don’t know any on the right who advocates for closed borders. We are against ILLEGAL immigration.

    There speaks the voice of cuckservatism. There’s nothing wrong with population replacement and the destruction of society as long as it’s done legally.

  136. We’ve got open borders now, and have had for at least 40 years. Supported by both political parties. The majority of white and black America have supported open borders as well, out of racist hatred by most blacks and out of a goopy, maudlin sense of self-congratulation among most whites. Both groups will reap the punishments of their emotional positions, good and hard. Might as well abolish ICE, it’s pretty much useless.

  137. @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    Most Republicans in the ruling class saw working class whites as racist too. It’s more about class and snobbery than ideology or political identity.
     
    Class, snobbery, and perceptions of morality are tied up in political identity. If "most Republicans" see working class White people as racist, they don't share a political identity with them.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    No, it’s not.

    That’s why they’ve flipped to the Ds.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Desiderius

    Who has flipped to the Ds?

    Replies: @Desiderius

  138. @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    “Trade unions for inclusion of refugees”
     
    Trade union leaderships betrayed their own members decades ago by embracing identity politics and environmentalism and similar nonsense. Ordinary trade unionists never did support that sort of stupidity.

    Why did the leaderships betray their own members? Mostly likely they were simply bribed to do so. The corporate sector wanted trade unions neutralised and I'm sure they were happy to pay labour leaders for selling out.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Desiderius


    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.
     
    Yes, class feelings certainly would have been a factor.

    Although I suspect that the extent to which union leaders were drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy has been somewhat exaggerated.

    In any case those labour leaders who were upper class were sincere believers in the cause of socialism (whatever the reasons may have been that led them to those beliefs). And then in the late 60s and the 70s they suddenly lost interest in the class struggle and started pushing an agenda that was anti-working class. I'm still inclined to believe that many were bribed.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  139. @Desiderius
    @dfordoom

    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.

    Yes, class feelings certainly would have been a factor.

    Although I suspect that the extent to which union leaders were drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy has been somewhat exaggerated.

    In any case those labour leaders who were upper class were sincere believers in the cause of socialism (whatever the reasons may have been that led them to those beliefs). And then in the late 60s and the 70s they suddenly lost interest in the class struggle and started pushing an agenda that was anti-working class. I’m still inclined to believe that many were bribed.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @dfordoom


    the extent to which union leaders were drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy has been somewhat exaggerated
     
    Over the last generation or two it’s been far worse - they’ve been drawn from those who’ve aspired to join those ranks at the expense of their brothers.

    Your naïveté regarding the Labour old bulls is touching. Tory democracy in drag.
  140. Luke Ford critiques Nagle when (in June 2017) when she went on Chapo Traphouse and mainly called on the MSM to do more to expose the Alt-Right:

  141. @trelane
    Open borders with an IQ test would be amazing if the minimum admissible score was 110 or 120. What we have today is open borders based on whether the immigrant can fog-up a mirror held in front of his mouth. Two very different tests.

    Replies: @King Baeksu, @Lurker, @anon, @Anonymous, @Saxon

    It would be a terrible idea and Lee Kuan Yew’s experience in running Singapore even though it was 3/4 his own people will tell you why.

    Also, these high IQ foreign people will still want to bring in their low IQ co-ethnics and will agitate for that, as well as agitate for special treatment for themselves.

  142. @dfordoom
    @Desiderius


    The labor leaders (sic) were a different class than the laborers themselves. Same with the British Labour Party.
     
    Yes, class feelings certainly would have been a factor.

    Although I suspect that the extent to which union leaders were drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy has been somewhat exaggerated.

    In any case those labour leaders who were upper class were sincere believers in the cause of socialism (whatever the reasons may have been that led them to those beliefs). And then in the late 60s and the 70s they suddenly lost interest in the class struggle and started pushing an agenda that was anti-working class. I'm still inclined to believe that many were bribed.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    the extent to which union leaders were drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy has been somewhat exaggerated

    Over the last generation or two it’s been far worse – they’ve been drawn from those who’ve aspired to join those ranks at the expense of their brothers.

    Your naïveté regarding the Labour old bulls is touching. Tory democracy in drag.

  143. @notanon
    @Anonymous

    nope - it increases profitability for the employer but that's not the same thing

    1) importing people to do work with lower than average productivity automatically lowers average productivity - it's like if you had a group of people with an average height of 6' and then add additional people who were all 5' - the average height of the group goes down

    2) longer term the availability of cheap labor reduces the incentive to tech up low productivity work

    Replies: @Anonymous

    1) importing people to do work with lower than average productivity automatically lowers average productivity

    But that isn’t what you wrote. You wrote that the labor inputs were less expensive.

  144. @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    No, it’s not.

    That’s why they’ve flipped to the Ds.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Who has flipped to the Ds?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    Rich snobs.

  145. @Anonymous
    @Desiderius

    Who has flipped to the Ds?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Rich snobs.

  146. @Edward
    @Forbes

    I would recommend it. As someone who is generally very socially liberal, fairly pro-immigration if stringent guest-worker conditions are met, and who voted Remain in the EU referendum (what am I doing here, you may ask!), it was an eye-opener for me.

    I didn’t update my views all that much, but it did illustrate very well the fact that people who hold my views are in a minority. Hence why I think reversing the result of the EU referendum would be a disaster.

    Replies: @LostHopeless

    Are you one of those guys who are A-OK with legal immigration as long as the gravy train keeps running (on time) but care not one whiff about the dissolving local ethnic pool of the host nation?

    That is to say make Canada like the UK as long as only “skilled immigrants” come in? I work in tech in the US and know very well how even alphabet soup visas for supposedly “skilled” workers also get abused by people coming in from very low trust countries with a penchant for “gaming” the system and exploiting the loopholes. Do you care about the pagan customs they bring with them and how that will play out politically once they get their lobby up and running in the power centers. Check center for immigration studies and the fabulous work they’ve done in opposition to highly placed corporate lobbies like “immigration voice” and the likes to check for the numbers.

    For you and other “libertarian” minded people here, I’d genuinely like to know if for you a nation is nothing more than a factory floor (oops, wrong analogy, was more apt in the 70s) or say an investment bank? Is racial homogeneity and the high trust culture it inspires nothing for guys like you?

    Canada will cease to be white majority in the urban centers in say 2 decades at max. You will then see the dynamics that made India, Nigeria and China (all vastly different but still low trust societies with Nigeria < India < China) such wonderful places to live and work play out. It is probably then you'd realize that no matter how much the "muh IQ" and "muh skillz" crowd (like you) tries to downplay the Trojan threat to the white race here, the damage would be real and permanent and plain as day for all to see

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