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A preprint from China:

Indoor transmission of SARS-CoV-2
Hua Qian, Te Miao, Li LIU, Xiaohong Zheng, Danting Luo, Yuguo Li

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed

… It is essential to understand where and how SARS-CoV-2 is transmitted. Methods: Case reports were extracted from the local Municipal Health Commissions of 320 prefectural cities (municipalities) in China, not including Hubei province, between 4 January and 11 February 2020. We identified all outbreaks involving three or more cases and reviewed the major characteristics of the enclosed spaces in which the outbreaks were reported and associated indoor environmental issues. Results: Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. Conclusions: All identified outbreaks of three or more cases occurred in an indoor environment, which confirms that sharing indoor space is a major SARS-CoV-2 infection risk.

So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.

 
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  1. Fox News claims to have seen extensive evidence CV came from Wuhan Lab.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    • Replies: @trelane
    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It's coordinated. Why is anyone's guess.
    , @The Alarmist
    Yeah, that's usually how дезинформация works.
  2. Awesome, so the 24 hour techno man corral at Burning Man is back on??

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Unfortunately, no.

    https://www.theonion.com/no-one-makes-it-to-burning-man-festival-1819567043
    (2003 original)

    https://www.theonion.com/70-000-burning-man-attendees-die-of-dehydration-after-t-1828628664
    (2018 headline-only rehash likely written by someone in kindergarten in 2003)
  3. Anonymous[227] • Disclaimer says:

    The main thing is to make sure you avoid enclosed spaces that have Chinese people in them.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Not much evidence that in the US the Chinese are more infected. They might be less so because they know the drill.
  4. anon[308] • Disclaimer says:

    The response to this pandemic is going to go down in history as one of the most counterproductive embroglios in the history of man. Our leaders are the keystone cops. They make literally the worst possible calls at every turn. Insisting you should not wear masks when it’s the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that’s the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Shutting down the entire economy, dooming 2-5x as many people to deaths of despair through substance abuse and suicide as you save during the pandemic itself. Worse yet, the people saved have 4 years average life expectancy and the people doomed 40 years.

    You should have told everyone under 65 to make makeshift face coverings, use sensible precautions and, after a very brief “shutdown” to communicate the gravity of the situation to people, told them to go back to work. This whole thing is becoming an absurd farce.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Anon87
    It's a tipping point for sure. It's an in your face sign our leaders are anything but the best and brightest, and the US is sliding away from first world status.

    I went to the store today to pick up Rx for my parents. They had new stickers on the floor to tell you which direction the traffic flow should be. It was like an IQ test, that most people were failing. Combined with all the trash in the parking lot it was pretty depressing.
    , @Lot
    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines -

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications - ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.



    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.
    , @Elli
    Even without government orders, people will withdraw from going out and economic activity if they are afraid.

    See this article and graph, decline in restaurant reservations began 10 days before shut downs, steepened 5 days before.

    https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/lawmakers-want-to-reopen-america-but-it-may-not-so-be-easy/

    There are nursing homes, warehouses, factories, food processing plants where half the staff has quit.
    , @AnotherDad

    Insisting you should not wear masks when it’s the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that’s the worst thing you could do. -_-
     
    Telling you that wearing a mask is useless ...
    and
    that going to the beach is bad with that dangerous fresh, humid, salt air ...

    just a big f.u. to Americans.

    But let's be honest, our "cosmopolitan globalist" elites have been giving a big f.u. to Americans--louder and louder each year-- for 50+ with "nation of immigrants".
  5. In summary, there is no justification for closing National and state parks, golf courses, etc. Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.

    • Agree: Polynikes
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Getting people back to work may present complex issues, but the psychological lid will blow if hyperactive public officials try to keep the great outdoors locked down this summer
    , @Morton's toes
    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.

    https://www.rei.com/blog/news/social-distancing-when-outdoors

    Today at the regional park I go to I went past the main gate which I do not usually use. The main parking lot was about half full. But on the street right outside the main gate where surveillance access is presumably just a little bit less the cars were parked bumper to bumper for close to a mile on both sides of the road.
    , @Paul Jolliffe
    Barnard said:

    "Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing."

    Agreed, Barnard.

    But for Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan's Democratic Governor), this is no longer about "saving lives".

    No, it's now about saving political face (she's currently the third favorite on Election Betting Odds to be named Biden's VP candidate).

    It's also about showing how sympathetic she is to black victims: the city of Detroit (the blackest city in America) has many victims, but virtually all of them are dying with the conditions to which blacks are especially prone: diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, gross obesity, etc.

    So of course small boat owners can't take their private boats on to the Detroit River right now to fish for walleye - with no (as in NO) demonstrated risk of transmission, it would seem to be a stupid order on Whitmer's part.

    But fishing in small private boats is practically an all white activity, and if she didn't shut that down, her voting bloc might notice. And she can't have that.

    So, no boating or golf for us white men . . .

    (I hope she's humiliated in the next election. I will vote for anyone, and I mean anyone who opposes Gretchen Whitmer in the next election.)

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/10/whitmer-hits-reverse-no-motorized-boats-allowed-under-stay-home-order/5135504002/
    , @Polynikes
    And when they're done send them to notify the moron in Madison.
  6. @Anonymous
    The main thing is to make sure you avoid enclosed spaces that have Chinese people in them.

    Not much evidence that in the US the Chinese are more infected. They might be less so because they know the drill.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    Honest question: are you missing Chinese take-out?

    I am

    Desperately.
  7. @Lot
    Fox News claims to have seen extensive evidence CV came from Wuhan Lab.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228
    , @Kaz
    Now I'm getting spooked
    , @Bill
    Yeah, the modified limited hangout has now been activated, having been seeded weeks ago in less savory sources.
  8. The Great Outdoors – Trailer

    • Replies: @Redman
    Is that Morgan Freeman doing the voiceover?
    , @R.G. Camara
    John Candy playing against type, and doing it well (he usually played the annoying guy, although it he always played it as the guy not meaning to be annoying, just earnest, like Steve Carrell did in The Office and School for Schmucks).

    Dan Aykroyd doing his usual very-well-prepared, deeper-than-you-realize comedic job. (Aykroyd is one of those guys who will be recognized as a real comedic genius once he's gone).

    The film is an underrated classic.

    N.B.: It was Candy's untimely death that caused genius John Hughes to quit Hollywood.
  9. Now just a big hoax?

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    Here's the Times of Israel news story KMG cites from:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-israeli-prof-claims-simple-stats-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

  10. Steve, you are missing the whole point.

    Governors revel in the ability to punish ordinary people and make their lives even more miserable. Otherwise, why be in government in the first place?

    If they wanted lots of money they’d be on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. If they were really good at acting they’d be Robert Downey Jr’s co-star. But instead they want POWER. POWER to make ordinary people as miserable as possible.

    See: Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy: “What’s the point of being rich if ordinary people have nice things too?”

    Parks are for: cops, soldiers, bureaucrats, media people, the brother of the Governor, and other connected big shots, and the homeless who the media/government LOVE LOVE LOVE because it makes ordinary people that more miserable having to deal with them. After all if you were important dirt people deplorables, you’d have a set of bodyguards like Ahnold!

    Don’t worry though — Gavin Newsome has put much thought on the crisis. He’s giving an initial $125 million for illegals because of the virus.

    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    “Parks are for cops” might be my favourite Whiskey take ever
    , @Morris Applebaum IV
    The scary thing is that you might need to be more worried about power hungry people who want to make your life better. I agree that a significant number of politicians are psychopaths who get extremely excited about dominating people's lives.
    , @moshe
    Whiskey, please read my hopefully kind-hearted mockery/critique of your weltanschaunng that I published here yesterday. You're projecting what you think YOU would do if you had power unto those who do have power. But

    A - they don't have so much power

    B - they really aren't so bad

    C - if you were in their shoes, you wouldn't be as bad as you fantasize about being either

    D - unless you're having fun trolling, please take some chill pills according to the md recommended dosages, and no other drugs. It can't be fun to think that so many people HATE HATE HATE. They don't. And I know that you don't really HATE HATE HATE the average woman or Muslim or politician you come across either. I wish you happiness. Fears, paranoias and beliefs in large scale lethal persecutions can't be fun.
    , @Aardvark
    I couldn't believe how freakin' childish it seemed during one of the federal government shutdowns that the Feds scrounged up the resources to post a park ranger in the park to make sure no one used it. And the Washington Monument was closed?

    Meanwhile, they need to make stupid decisions to actually prolong this thing to get the max out of the crisis prior to freaking out about the loss of tax revenue.

    First they said masks don't work while healthcare workers were wearing masks; then they relented later and decided people should consider masks - also long after a lot them were sold out.

    Anything that smacks of working against the corona-chan has to be ridiculed... don't waste your time (or it's really dangerous) taking hydroxycholorquine or zinc... Governor Halfwit first threatened Doctors to not prescribe HCQ then turned around and begged for some to be provided to her state.

    Why people can't see the utter incompetency of government is beyond me.
  11. @Barnard
    In summary, there is no justification for closing National and state parks, golf courses, etc. Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.

    Getting people back to work may present complex issues, but the psychological lid will blow if hyperactive public officials try to keep the great outdoors locked down this summer

  12. This seems to represent some huge bias in exposure opportunities. What do you suppose the ratio of indoor to outdoor time in January in China might be? The population of winter campers and sunbathers had nobody to catch the virus from, while everybody else was packed together in their “homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous” environments.
    And I seem to recall reading on some blog or other that skiing, a pretty outdoorsy activity involving 6′ interpersonal margins, was the engine for global viral spread from Italy to Iceland.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas

    And I seem to recall reading on some blog or other that skiing, a pretty outdoorsy activity involving 6′ interpersonal margins, was the engine for global viral spread from Italy to Iceland.
     
    Resorts of the Year 2019: Best Nightlife in the West
    https://www.skimag.com/ski-resort-life/resorts-of-the-year-west-top-10-nightlife
    , @LemmusLemmus
    Skiing itself is outdoors, but "après-ski" (partying) is indoors. The Great Austrian Seeding of Europe has been traced to a few "ski huts" (clubs).
  13. @anon
    The response to this pandemic is going to go down in history as one of the most counterproductive embroglios in the history of man. Our leaders are the keystone cops. They make literally the worst possible calls at every turn. Insisting you should not wear masks when it's the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that's the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Shutting down the entire economy, dooming 2-5x as many people to deaths of despair through substance abuse and suicide as you save during the pandemic itself. Worse yet, the people saved have 4 years average life expectancy and the people doomed 40 years.

    You should have told everyone under 65 to make makeshift face coverings, use sensible precautions and, after a very brief "shutdown" to communicate the gravity of the situation to people, told them to go back to work. This whole thing is becoming an absurd farce.

    It’s a tipping point for sure. It’s an in your face sign our leaders are anything but the best and brightest, and the US is sliding away from first world status.

    I went to the store today to pick up Rx for my parents. They had new stickers on the floor to tell you which direction the traffic flow should be. It was like an IQ test, that most people were failing. Combined with all the trash in the parking lot it was pretty depressing.

  14. @Farenheit
    Awesome, so the 24 hour techno man corral at Burning Man is back on??

    Unfortunately, no.

    https://www.theonion.com/no-one-makes-it-to-burning-man-festival-1819567043
    (2003 original)

    https://www.theonion.com/70-000-burning-man-attendees-die-of-dehydration-after-t-1828628664
    (2018 headline-only rehash likely written by someone in kindergarten in 2003)

  15. Was the Mardi Gras spread from indoor or outdoor contact?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras - but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds... direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    There is also this outlandish but persistent conspiracy theory that in preCov times, people used to congregate[1] in medium-sized open-plan structures, where they would drink stupefiants while routinely standing less than 2m apart (TF???).

    Often, they would acquire these stupefiants by giving flimsy rectangular tokens to one of a small group of people (called 'tenders' for some reason). The 'tenders' would often give them small, round, unsanitary metallic tokens in addition to an unsanitary receptacle full of stupefiant.

    Now obviously, that whole story is just plain ridiculous. Only a wingnut tinfoil-hat numbnuts would find it plausible - I only mention it for completeness.

    [1] 'congregate' - according to these conspiracy nutcases, was a word in preCov English that meant 'get together in groups of more than 2, in a public place'.

  16. There was a cluster in Hokkaido (the northern island in Japan) back in February. My recollection is that epidemiologists linked it to the outdoors Sapporo Snow Festival. Like what may have happened with the ski resort infections, though, I guess it might not have been the outdoors bit but the huddling together in restaurants and shops bit that led to the spread.

  17. @trelane
    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It's coordinated. Why is anyone's guess.

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.

    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I’m sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how “agitated” all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let’s consider the plausibility of the “accidental Wuhan Lab Leak” theory. As I’ve repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    • Agree: AaronInMVD
    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch...
     
    As are the anti-Israel shills. We need a more comprehensive anti-Semitism that covers all the sons of שם‎, not just 3% of them.

    We Japhetites are dropping the ball.

    Derb might term it autohesperophobia.
    , @res
    Ron, have you looked into the genetic analysis of the Corona virus spread? The closest human genetic links to the bat source have some odd behavior in their network (connected rather than tree-like). I wonder if that might have some bearing on the bioweapon theory. Some details (and further links) in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3839443
    There is even more detail in my follow-on comment (a response to that) which has not made it out of moderation yet.

    If you know someone with academic credentials (to get the current GISAID data) this might be worth looking into.
    , @theMann
    Let me preface this with "I can't believe I am agreeing with Run Unz". Ok, got that out of the way.

    People produce antibodies upon exposure to disease and develop immunity. Most people, however, are incapable of developing " antibodies" to Media Lies. No matter how many times they are lied to, they still believe the next lie. Just in my lifetime we have had: Kennedy Assassination, Gulf of Tonkin, Tet Offensive, Nixon Impeachment, Alar Scare, Acid Rain, McMartin Preschool, Tawana Brawley, 9-11 (aka, The Big Enchilada), Nayirah Testimony, Kavanaugh Hearing, Trevon Martin, and aproximately one billion other Media Lies vomited forth upon us.

    And yet somehow THIS TIME everything we are told about CoronaFraud is the absolute truth.


    The mass of men are incapable of believing anything, unless it is a lie. And the terrible tragedy is that that remain incapable of believing anything but lies no matter how many times the lies are exposed to them.
    , @moshe
    Ron, I believe that you believe what you write. I also believe that it is super very wrong and that your money allows you to magnify it to the extent that it can (like 1/1000 can) cause actual harm to me personally (and to you too though you don't seem to acknowledge that).

    I also doubt that I can convince you away from your beliefs and I'm certain that I don't want to try.

    I do however have an interest in making a human contact with you (through videochat obv because you seem to really believe in Quarantinism) because I happen to enjoy real-life, non-print, interactions with people who hold beliefs that are so dissimilar to my own.

    If you share this interest, we can definitely WhatsApp or Zoom. It'd be fun.

    P.S. I say this as someone who has many very anti-zionistic friends and has even lived in Arab cities in the middle east. I genuinely enjoy human interactions and, perhaps perversely?, all the more so with people who holds views , beliefs or practices that are very foreign to me.

    Be well.

    , @utu

    Israeli TV says US intel warned IDF & NATO of coronavirus threat in NOVEMBER 2019, doubling down on claims dismissed by… US intel

    https://www.rt.com/news/486072-us-intelligence-israel-coronavirus/
    American intelligence passed an early warning about the coronavirus to Tel Aviv and NATO as far back as November, Israel’s Channel 12 claims, even after a top US medical intel officer dismissed a similar report just last week.

    The broadcaster aired a story on Thursday alleging that the US intelligence community shared classified information about a new viral outbreak in China with the Israeli military and senior NATO officials. With nobody willing to go on record to confirm the report, however, the story is based on murky anonymous sourcing, leaving it a mystery where the claim originated.

    “Still in November, the IDF held a first discussion regarding what impact this unknown disease would have were it to reach the Middle East. How would we be affected? How would it affect our neighbors?” the Channel 12 broadcast said, as cited by i24 News.
     

    So what is the purpose of this leak? We knew nothing about the disease. But yes the IDF held meetings about it already in November but only because Americans told us. Will China ask: How could you know it in November if we did not know? Or is it Russian/Chinese disinfo? Who planted it in Channel 12? Who owns Channel 12?
  18. @anon
    The response to this pandemic is going to go down in history as one of the most counterproductive embroglios in the history of man. Our leaders are the keystone cops. They make literally the worst possible calls at every turn. Insisting you should not wear masks when it's the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that's the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Shutting down the entire economy, dooming 2-5x as many people to deaths of despair through substance abuse and suicide as you save during the pandemic itself. Worse yet, the people saved have 4 years average life expectancy and the people doomed 40 years.

    You should have told everyone under 65 to make makeshift face coverings, use sensible precautions and, after a very brief "shutdown" to communicate the gravity of the situation to people, told them to go back to work. This whole thing is becoming an absurd farce.

    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines –

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications – ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.

    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.

    • Replies: @Kaz
    Why the heck is an ISP affected by this?

    Everything else makes sense sadly enough.
    , @HA
    "The Wuhan Depression is on:"

    How can we be sure? How do we know it's not just the media creating a panic in order to further their political agenda? They seem to be really laying it on thick -- isn't that proof that this is all just a hoax? How do we know these supposedly bankrupt firms aren't just groups of crisis actors? After all, I don't see millions of people dropping dead of poverty, so why all these drastic and costly measures to boost the economy on the part of the politicians?

    I mean, firms go bankrupt all the time. Downturms come and go. Shouldn't we learn to accept that as a part of life and stop striving for some ridiculously unnatural and disastrously unsustainable growth that we've come to expect?

    And what if the vast majority of people being driven into bankruptcy are people who were already on the verge of going under? If you look closely, I suspect you'll find that the vast majority of these people have some other economic issue already. And what if most of those being affected are part of some really whiny age-bracket that I don't care for? Why should we let that group of tantrum-throwing narcissists hog even more of the spotlight?

    Don't listen to all these so-called experts or their so-called projections. My hunches are far more trustworthy than they are, and anyone who disagrees with me is part of the con. That especially goes for you, Sailer.

    There's really nothing to see here. It's just a seasonal economic correction, bro.

    , @hhsiii
    Frontier was already heading towards bankruptcy. Their stock was trading at $2 a year ago.
    , @Polynikes
    The obvious question being, how much of this can be turned back on when these insane shelter in place orders are lifted? We won't see dramatic numbers like that on the upswing, I'd bet. I suppose the question is how long will the expansion last after we open things back up? How much will we expand? And will we contract right away again?

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.
     
    I read some stuff online (so the truthfulness is dubious) about how many of the AirBNB places are owned by people who act as "landlords" and constantly rent out multiple places as their job. Most of these guys are highly leveraged. In other words, AirBNB isn't running off the backs of people renting out their spare bedroom or house when they're gone for the weekend. Same way Uber drivers aren't people doing it in their spare time but as their actual jobs. If that's the case, I think you can expect widespread defaults of those properties. The question being: how many are out there and will it adversely affect the overall mortgage/property market?
  19. OT: confirmed iSteve lurker James O’Meara gave Sailer (and Scott Alexander, sorta) a shout-out in a recent article at North American Nü Right:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2020/04/like-father-like-son/

    • Replies: @res
    That was interesting. Thanks.

    Commenter newrouter gets a shout out as well. He should go read that.
  20. @Whiskey
    Steve, you are missing the whole point.

    Governors revel in the ability to punish ordinary people and make their lives even more miserable. Otherwise, why be in government in the first place?

    If they wanted lots of money they'd be on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. If they were really good at acting they'd be Robert Downey Jr's co-star. But instead they want POWER. POWER to make ordinary people as miserable as possible.

    See: Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy: "What's the point of being rich if ordinary people have nice things too?"

    Parks are for: cops, soldiers, bureaucrats, media people, the brother of the Governor, and other connected big shots, and the homeless who the media/government LOVE LOVE LOVE because it makes ordinary people that more miserable having to deal with them. After all if you were important dirt people deplorables, you'd have a set of bodyguards like Ahnold!

    Don't worry though -- Gavin Newsome has put much thought on the crisis. He's giving an initial $125 million for illegals because of the virus.

    “Parks are for cops” might be my favourite Whiskey take ever

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
  21. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.

    Public parks are closed, but I’ve been seeing a lot more people outside than usual for recreational purposes – walking, biking, jogging, walking dogs, etc.

    • Replies: @Marty
    It looks like whether a closure exists depends on what local gov’t thinks the citizenry will tolerate. In SF, the beach is open, the surfers are out, you just can’t park your car there. Same for Golden Gate Park, Chrissy Field, the Marina Green, and the Presidio. Across the bridge in Mill Valley, the tennis courts are closed but the Little League fields are in full use by high school kids practicing lacrosse and fathers pitching batting practice. The municipal golf course has all its parking blocked off but plenty of players, including teen groups of 5-6. Last night the cops chased everyone off at 7:00 p.m.
    , @Redman
    Do you live in a place where all the college kids are home? I do and see the same trend. They’re bored out of their minds and want to get out. I don’t blame them.
  22. @trelane
    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It's coordinated. Why is anyone's guess.

    Now I’m getting spooked

  23. @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch…

    As are the anti-Israel shills. We need a more comprehensive anti-Semitism that covers all the sons of שם‎, not just 3% of them.

    We Japhetites are dropping the ball.

    Derb might term it autohesperophobia.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Hemite Hypothesis advocated by Anglo-Semite:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gabriel_Seligman
  24. @Lot
    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines -

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications - ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.



    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.

    Why the heck is an ISP affected by this?

    Everything else makes sense sadly enough.

    • Replies: @Aardvark
    The experience I had from managing a spendthrift trust for a ne'er-do-well relative was that having cable actually had higher priority than paying the gas bill or rent (mysteriously, they understood keeping the electric on was necessary for cable). You need cable to be able to sit on your ass while working on broadening it.
  25. Does this control for which people you spend the most time with?

    For example, (pre-coronavirus) I spend about 60% of my day indoors with my family, and about 30% of my day indoors with a small group of coworkers.

    The other 10% is spent in some combination of being in my car by myself, at some public place such as a store or restaurant, and outdoors walking the dog, exercising, etc.

    It seems obvious that I would be much more likely to infect people inside at home or at work just based on the amount of extra time I would be with them in those environments.

    The question should be, how often do people infect total strangers indoors vs. outdoors given the same proximity.

  26. @Whiskey
    Steve, you are missing the whole point.

    Governors revel in the ability to punish ordinary people and make their lives even more miserable. Otherwise, why be in government in the first place?

    If they wanted lots of money they'd be on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. If they were really good at acting they'd be Robert Downey Jr's co-star. But instead they want POWER. POWER to make ordinary people as miserable as possible.

    See: Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy: "What's the point of being rich if ordinary people have nice things too?"

    Parks are for: cops, soldiers, bureaucrats, media people, the brother of the Governor, and other connected big shots, and the homeless who the media/government LOVE LOVE LOVE because it makes ordinary people that more miserable having to deal with them. After all if you were important dirt people deplorables, you'd have a set of bodyguards like Ahnold!

    Don't worry though -- Gavin Newsome has put much thought on the crisis. He's giving an initial $125 million for illegals because of the virus.

    The scary thing is that you might need to be more worried about power hungry people who want to make your life better. I agree that a significant number of politicians are psychopaths who get extremely excited about dominating people’s lives.

  27. @Barnard
    In summary, there is no justification for closing National and state parks, golf courses, etc. Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.

    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.

    https://www.rei.com/blog/news/social-distancing-when-outdoors

    Today at the regional park I go to I went past the main gate which I do not usually use. The main parking lot was about half full. But on the street right outside the main gate where surveillance access is presumably just a little bit less the cars were parked bumper to bumper for close to a mile on both sides of the road.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.
     
    Food--bring it along? (Or use a mask in the store just like you do at home.)
    Gas--self service.
    Piss--trees are everywhere.
  28. HA says:
    @Lot
    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines -

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications - ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.



    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.

    “The Wuhan Depression is on:”

    How can we be sure? How do we know it’s not just the media creating a panic in order to further their political agenda? They seem to be really laying it on thick — isn’t that proof that this is all just a hoax? How do we know these supposedly bankrupt firms aren’t just groups of crisis actors? After all, I don’t see millions of people dropping dead of poverty, so why all these drastic and costly measures to boost the economy on the part of the politicians?

    I mean, firms go bankrupt all the time. Downturms come and go. Shouldn’t we learn to accept that as a part of life and stop striving for some ridiculously unnatural and disastrously unsustainable growth that we’ve come to expect?

    And what if the vast majority of people being driven into bankruptcy are people who were already on the verge of going under? If you look closely, I suspect you’ll find that the vast majority of these people have some other economic issue already. And what if most of those being affected are part of some really whiny age-bracket that I don’t care for? Why should we let that group of tantrum-throwing narcissists hog even more of the spotlight?

    Don’t listen to all these so-called experts or their so-called projections. My hunches are far more trustworthy than they are, and anyone who disagrees with me is part of the con. That especially goes for you, Sailer.

    There’s really nothing to see here. It’s just a seasonal economic correction, bro.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Most original comment. Lampooning the lambasters.
    , @Polynikes
    I see the doomers are hunkered down and never giving in that they were wrong.

    Interesting strategy....
    , @Corvinus
    Thanks, Whiskey!
  29. @Reg Cæsar

    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch...
     
    As are the anti-Israel shills. We need a more comprehensive anti-Semitism that covers all the sons of שם‎, not just 3% of them.

    We Japhetites are dropping the ball.

    Derb might term it autohesperophobia.

    Hemite Hypothesis advocated by Anglo-Semite:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gabriel_Seligman

  30. @MEH 0910
    The Great Outdoors - Trailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbLVZM5t1I

    Is that Morgan Freeman doing the voiceover?

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    Sounds to me like the late great Don LaFontaine.

    Don LaFontaine: The Voice
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPMvj_xejg

    750,000 television spots, 5,000 movie trailers, 1 voice, Don LaFontaine has the most recognizable voice in the game right now. Here is the legend's story told by none other than the legend himself.

    R.I.P. Don LaFontaine (1940-2008)
     
  31. @Anonymous

    So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.
     
    Public parks are closed, but I've been seeing a lot more people outside than usual for recreational purposes - walking, biking, jogging, walking dogs, etc.

    It looks like whether a closure exists depends on what local gov’t thinks the citizenry will tolerate. In SF, the beach is open, the surfers are out, you just can’t park your car there. Same for Golden Gate Park, Chrissy Field, the Marina Green, and the Presidio. Across the bridge in Mill Valley, the tennis courts are closed but the Little League fields are in full use by high school kids practicing lacrosse and fathers pitching batting practice. The municipal golf course has all its parking blocked off but plenty of players, including teen groups of 5-6. Last night the cops chased everyone off at 7:00 p.m.

  32. @Anonymous

    So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.
     
    Public parks are closed, but I've been seeing a lot more people outside than usual for recreational purposes - walking, biking, jogging, walking dogs, etc.

    Do you live in a place where all the college kids are home? I do and see the same trend. They’re bored out of their minds and want to get out. I don’t blame them.

    • Replies: @BB753
    It's worse for children. Keeping a child indoors for extended perios of time is inhumane and unhealthy. Not to mention they must drive their parents out of their minds.
  33. @Redman
    Is that Morgan Freeman doing the voiceover?

    Sounds to me like the late great Don LaFontaine.

    Don LaFontaine: The Voice

    750,000 television spots, 5,000 movie trailers, 1 voice, Don LaFontaine has the most recognizable voice in the game right now. Here is the legend’s story told by none other than the legend himself.

    R.I.P. Don LaFontaine (1940-2008)

  34. @Steve Sailer
    Not much evidence that in the US the Chinese are more infected. They might be less so because they know the drill.

    Honest question: are you missing Chinese take-out?

    I am

    Desperately.

    • Replies: @anon

    are you missing Chinese take-out?I am
     
    Sure, if you miss eating stir fry 'pork' flavoured cardboard, or sawdust 'chicken' dumplings, or some other scraps the bug people can muster from a dumpster.
    You wont be eating the good chinese stuff like pangolin, or bat, or tiger dick or caged factory bred wolf or bear.
    No sir, you'll be eating shit, and paying money for it.
    Good luck.
    , @James Braxton
    Chinese food makes me feel like a sodium/msg bomb went off in my insides.

    Plus there is the constant suspicion that I am eating cat.
  35. @MEH 0910
    The Great Outdoors - Trailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbLVZM5t1I

    John Candy playing against type, and doing it well (he usually played the annoying guy, although it he always played it as the guy not meaning to be annoying, just earnest, like Steve Carrell did in The Office and School for Schmucks).

    Dan Aykroyd doing his usual very-well-prepared, deeper-than-you-realize comedic job. (Aykroyd is one of those guys who will be recognized as a real comedic genius once he’s gone).

    The film is an underrated classic.

    N.B.: It was Candy’s untimely death that caused genius John Hughes to quit Hollywood.

  36. @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    Ron, have you looked into the genetic analysis of the Corona virus spread? The closest human genetic links to the bat source have some odd behavior in their network (connected rather than tree-like). I wonder if that might have some bearing on the bioweapon theory. Some details (and further links) in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3839443
    There is even more detail in my follow-on comment (a response to that) which has not made it out of moderation yet.

    If you know someone with academic credentials (to get the current GISAID data) this might be worth looking into.

    • Replies: @e
    F0x is NOT reporting that the virus is a bioweapon.
    , @utu
    "...bearing on the bioweapon theory"

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3792676
    The stigma and fatwa awaiting any microbiologist who would pursue the hypothesis that the virus was lab created is so great that I must take any claims that the culprit virus is natural with a grain of salt.

    Otoh, I think it should not be too expensive to hire a postdoc outside of academia setting and have him go through the completed database of viruses including all versions of the covid-19 to get an impartial, outside of the academia and national research labs opinion about the likelihood of covid-19 being natural or not. This would require some detective work of looking into the precursor viruses that are considered natural whether indeed they are natural: who found them first and where and do they have their own precursors in nature or did they come ab nihilo.
     

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/a-viral-pandemic-or-a-crime-scene/#comment-3833474
    Crime scene? Disinformation campaign? Who is doing investigating and who is planting false leads? Who among the many homegrown Sherlock Holmeses is a witless patsy? How to be an objective witness when being a subject of the disinformation campaign?

    I strongly recommend reading on the Operation Infection that was a very successful KGB lead disinformation campaign in 1980’s. Articles were planted in a minor paper in the 2nd world country, scientist insinuating alternative narrative were sent to minor conferences, they gave interviews to 2nd rate news networks, then a major Soviet Block paper picked it up, then some 2nd rate paper in the West picked it up and soon people with right confirmation bias began to believe the story. Then in the 1980s they did not have internet so the process of seeding the story and whipping it up from the level of whispers to the storm took much longer.
     
    Czech microbiologist Sona Pekova in March:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL7okhbVzU&feature=youtu.be

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3832597
    Now go back to Sona Pekova, MD, PhD. What do you know about her? Yes, she is a microbiologist though her publications do not deal with viruses. Currently she is a head of the laboratory, expert supervisor at testing lab Tilia Laboratories in Czech Republic 20km North-West from Prague. They seems to be doing routine tests for human and animal genetics and diseases. The Tilia Laboratories must be a very small outfit as only three employees are listed. One of them is Miroslav Pek, MD who likely is Sona’s husband. He had a very interesting scholarship (?) and affiliations in the past:

    Miroslav Pek, MD
    2005 USMRICD, Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD, USA and USAMRIID, Fort Detrick, MD, USA
    2001 – 2003 Head of Epidemiology Department, Military Health Institute Prague
    2003 – 2013 Deputy Director, Military Health Institute Prague

    Now find out who and when did the interview with Sona? One commenter 1 week ago said that the interview was 3 weeks old. Which paper in Czech Republic first picked up the story (AE News) and who used that story in the next step (Dimsumdaily Hong Kong).
     
  37. I think some administrations forbid staying outside just to keep things manageable. If people stay outside they might want to buy something to drink or to eat. Others might start doing sport. Others might see many people in one day.
    When it people outside keep a safe distance and ideally be only together with only the people they live with than there there is no need for restrictions.

  38. @Roderick Spode
    OT: confirmed iSteve lurker James O’Meara gave Sailer (and Scott Alexander, sorta) a shout-out in a recent article at North American Nü Right:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2020/04/like-father-like-son/

    That was interesting. Thanks.

    Commenter newrouter gets a shout out as well. He should go read that.

  39. @HA
    "The Wuhan Depression is on:"

    How can we be sure? How do we know it's not just the media creating a panic in order to further their political agenda? They seem to be really laying it on thick -- isn't that proof that this is all just a hoax? How do we know these supposedly bankrupt firms aren't just groups of crisis actors? After all, I don't see millions of people dropping dead of poverty, so why all these drastic and costly measures to boost the economy on the part of the politicians?

    I mean, firms go bankrupt all the time. Downturms come and go. Shouldn't we learn to accept that as a part of life and stop striving for some ridiculously unnatural and disastrously unsustainable growth that we've come to expect?

    And what if the vast majority of people being driven into bankruptcy are people who were already on the verge of going under? If you look closely, I suspect you'll find that the vast majority of these people have some other economic issue already. And what if most of those being affected are part of some really whiny age-bracket that I don't care for? Why should we let that group of tantrum-throwing narcissists hog even more of the spotlight?

    Don't listen to all these so-called experts or their so-called projections. My hunches are far more trustworthy than they are, and anyone who disagrees with me is part of the con. That especially goes for you, Sailer.

    There's really nothing to see here. It's just a seasonal economic correction, bro.

    Most original comment. Lampooning the lambasters.

    • Agree: ic1000
  40. “So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.”

    True of all cold\flu viruses and epidemics. …………Pretty sure some of us were pointing that out two months ago.

  41. @Lot
    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines -

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications - ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.



    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.

    Frontier was already heading towards bankruptcy. Their stock was trading at $2 a year ago.

  42. @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    Let me preface this with “I can’t believe I am agreeing with Run Unz”. Ok, got that out of the way.

    People produce antibodies upon exposure to disease and develop immunity. Most people, however, are incapable of developing ” antibodies” to Media Lies. No matter how many times they are lied to, they still believe the next lie. Just in my lifetime we have had: Kennedy Assassination, Gulf of Tonkin, Tet Offensive, Nixon Impeachment, Alar Scare, Acid Rain, McMartin Preschool, Tawana Brawley, 9-11 (aka, The Big Enchilada), Nayirah Testimony, Kavanaugh Hearing, Trevon Martin, and aproximately one billion other Media Lies vomited forth upon us.

    And yet somehow THIS TIME everything we are told about CoronaFraud is the absolute truth.

    The mass of men are incapable of believing anything, unless it is a lie. And the terrible tragedy is that that remain incapable of believing anything but lies no matter how many times the lies are exposed to them.

    • Replies: @BigJimSportCamper
    Well put. The level of lies/propaganda (commercials are all in too) on the shitbox is mind boggling. I'm astounded and disgusted at the same time.
  43. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pheasant
    Honest question: are you missing Chinese take-out?

    I am

    Desperately.

    are you missing Chinese take-out?I am

    Sure, if you miss eating stir fry ‘pork’ flavoured cardboard, or sawdust ‘chicken’ dumplings, or some other scraps the bug people can muster from a dumpster.
    You wont be eating the good chinese stuff like pangolin, or bat, or tiger dick or caged factory bred wolf or bear.
    No sir, you’ll be eating shit, and paying money for it.
    Good luck.

    • LOL: Pheasant
  44. @res
    Ron, have you looked into the genetic analysis of the Corona virus spread? The closest human genetic links to the bat source have some odd behavior in their network (connected rather than tree-like). I wonder if that might have some bearing on the bioweapon theory. Some details (and further links) in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3839443
    There is even more detail in my follow-on comment (a response to that) which has not made it out of moderation yet.

    If you know someone with academic credentials (to get the current GISAID data) this might be worth looking into.

    F0x is NOT reporting that the virus is a bioweapon.

  45. @Whiskey
    Steve, you are missing the whole point.

    Governors revel in the ability to punish ordinary people and make their lives even more miserable. Otherwise, why be in government in the first place?

    If they wanted lots of money they'd be on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. If they were really good at acting they'd be Robert Downey Jr's co-star. But instead they want POWER. POWER to make ordinary people as miserable as possible.

    See: Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy: "What's the point of being rich if ordinary people have nice things too?"

    Parks are for: cops, soldiers, bureaucrats, media people, the brother of the Governor, and other connected big shots, and the homeless who the media/government LOVE LOVE LOVE because it makes ordinary people that more miserable having to deal with them. After all if you were important dirt people deplorables, you'd have a set of bodyguards like Ahnold!

    Don't worry though -- Gavin Newsome has put much thought on the crisis. He's giving an initial $125 million for illegals because of the virus.

    Whiskey, please read my hopefully kind-hearted mockery/critique of your weltanschaunng that I published here yesterday. You’re projecting what you think YOU would do if you had power unto those who do have power. But

    A – they don’t have so much power

    B – they really aren’t so bad

    C – if you were in their shoes, you wouldn’t be as bad as you fantasize about being either

    D – unless you’re having fun trolling, please take some chill pills according to the md recommended dosages, and no other drugs. It can’t be fun to think that so many people HATE HATE HATE. They don’t. And I know that you don’t really HATE HATE HATE the average woman or Muslim or politician you come across either. I wish you happiness. Fears, paranoias and beliefs in large scale lethal persecutions can’t be fun.

    • Troll: Inquiring Mind
  46. @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    Ron, I believe that you believe what you write. I also believe that it is super very wrong and that your money allows you to magnify it to the extent that it can (like 1/1000 can) cause actual harm to me personally (and to you too though you don’t seem to acknowledge that).

    I also doubt that I can convince you away from your beliefs and I’m certain that I don’t want to try.

    I do however have an interest in making a human contact with you (through videochat obv because you seem to really believe in Quarantinism) because I happen to enjoy real-life, non-print, interactions with people who hold beliefs that are so dissimilar to my own.

    If you share this interest, we can definitely WhatsApp or Zoom. It’d be fun.

    P.S. I say this as someone who has many very anti-zionistic friends and has even lived in Arab cities in the middle east. I genuinely enjoy human interactions and, perhaps perversely?, all the more so with people who holds views , beliefs or practices that are very foreign to me.

    Be well.

  47. So closing parks and beaches and telling people to stay indoors is probably not a good idea.

    Gee, I think I’ve commented that here more than a few times.

  48. @Lot
    Fox News claims to have seen extensive evidence CV came from Wuhan Lab.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    Yeah, that’s usually how дезинформация works.

  49. @Pestartzt
    This seems to represent some huge bias in exposure opportunities. What do you suppose the ratio of indoor to outdoor time in January in China might be? The population of winter campers and sunbathers had nobody to catch the virus from, while everybody else was packed together in their "homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous" environments.
    And I seem to recall reading on some blog or other that skiing, a pretty outdoorsy activity involving 6' interpersonal margins, was the engine for global viral spread from Italy to Iceland.

    And I seem to recall reading on some blog or other that skiing, a pretty outdoorsy activity involving 6′ interpersonal margins, was the engine for global viral spread from Italy to Iceland.

    Resorts of the Year 2019: Best Nightlife in the West
    https://www.skimag.com/ski-resort-life/resorts-of-the-year-west-top-10-nightlife

  50. @Anon
    Now just a big hoax?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTgjW6oPEg
  51. @Kaz
    Why the heck is an ISP affected by this?

    Everything else makes sense sadly enough.

    The experience I had from managing a spendthrift trust for a ne’er-do-well relative was that having cable actually had higher priority than paying the gas bill or rent (mysteriously, they understood keeping the electric on was necessary for cable). You need cable to be able to sit on your ass while working on broadening it.

  52. @Pheasant
    Honest question: are you missing Chinese take-out?

    I am

    Desperately.

    Chinese food makes me feel like a sodium/msg bomb went off in my insides.

    Plus there is the constant suspicion that I am eating cat.

  53. @Whiskey
    Steve, you are missing the whole point.

    Governors revel in the ability to punish ordinary people and make their lives even more miserable. Otherwise, why be in government in the first place?

    If they wanted lots of money they'd be on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. If they were really good at acting they'd be Robert Downey Jr's co-star. But instead they want POWER. POWER to make ordinary people as miserable as possible.

    See: Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy: "What's the point of being rich if ordinary people have nice things too?"

    Parks are for: cops, soldiers, bureaucrats, media people, the brother of the Governor, and other connected big shots, and the homeless who the media/government LOVE LOVE LOVE because it makes ordinary people that more miserable having to deal with them. After all if you were important dirt people deplorables, you'd have a set of bodyguards like Ahnold!

    Don't worry though -- Gavin Newsome has put much thought on the crisis. He's giving an initial $125 million for illegals because of the virus.

    I couldn’t believe how freakin’ childish it seemed during one of the federal government shutdowns that the Feds scrounged up the resources to post a park ranger in the park to make sure no one used it. And the Washington Monument was closed?

    Meanwhile, they need to make stupid decisions to actually prolong this thing to get the max out of the crisis prior to freaking out about the loss of tax revenue.

    First they said masks don’t work while healthcare workers were wearing masks; then they relented later and decided people should consider masks – also long after a lot them were sold out.

    Anything that smacks of working against the corona-chan has to be ridiculed… don’t waste your time (or it’s really dangerous) taking hydroxycholorquine or zinc… Governor Halfwit first threatened Doctors to not prescribe HCQ then turned around and begged for some to be provided to her state.

    Why people can’t see the utter incompetency of government is beyond me.

  54. @Barnard
    In summary, there is no justification for closing National and state parks, golf courses, etc. Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.

    Barnard said:

    “Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.”

    Agreed, Barnard.

    But for Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan’s Democratic Governor), this is no longer about “saving lives”.

    No, it’s now about saving political face (she’s currently the third favorite on Election Betting Odds to be named Biden’s VP candidate).

    It’s also about showing how sympathetic she is to black victims: the city of Detroit (the blackest city in America) has many victims, but virtually all of them are dying with the conditions to which blacks are especially prone: diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, gross obesity, etc.

    So of course small boat owners can’t take their private boats on to the Detroit River right now to fish for walleye – with no (as in NO) demonstrated risk of transmission, it would seem to be a stupid order on Whitmer’s part.

    But fishing in small private boats is practically an all white activity, and if she didn’t shut that down, her voting bloc might notice. And she can’t have that.

    So, no boating or golf for us white men . . .

    (I hope she’s humiliated in the next election. I will vote for anyone, and I mean anyone who opposes Gretchen Whitmer in the next election.)

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/10/whitmer-hits-reverse-no-motorized-boats-allowed-under-stay-home-order/5135504002/

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    Governor Whitmer is on Mr. Biden's short list?

    Please, oh, please, please, please, pick her, pick her.

    Mr. Trump's campaign ads would just write themselves.
  55. @Pestartzt
    This seems to represent some huge bias in exposure opportunities. What do you suppose the ratio of indoor to outdoor time in January in China might be? The population of winter campers and sunbathers had nobody to catch the virus from, while everybody else was packed together in their "homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous" environments.
    And I seem to recall reading on some blog or other that skiing, a pretty outdoorsy activity involving 6' interpersonal margins, was the engine for global viral spread from Italy to Iceland.

    Skiing itself is outdoors, but “après-ski” (partying) is indoors. The Great Austrian Seeding of Europe has been traced to a few “ski huts” (clubs).

  56. @anon
    The response to this pandemic is going to go down in history as one of the most counterproductive embroglios in the history of man. Our leaders are the keystone cops. They make literally the worst possible calls at every turn. Insisting you should not wear masks when it's the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that's the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Shutting down the entire economy, dooming 2-5x as many people to deaths of despair through substance abuse and suicide as you save during the pandemic itself. Worse yet, the people saved have 4 years average life expectancy and the people doomed 40 years.

    You should have told everyone under 65 to make makeshift face coverings, use sensible precautions and, after a very brief "shutdown" to communicate the gravity of the situation to people, told them to go back to work. This whole thing is becoming an absurd farce.

    Even without government orders, people will withdraw from going out and economic activity if they are afraid.

    See this article and graph, decline in restaurant reservations began 10 days before shut downs, steepened 5 days before.

    https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/lawmakers-want-to-reopen-america-but-it-may-not-so-be-easy/

    There are nursing homes, warehouses, factories, food processing plants where half the staff has quit.

  57. @Morton's toes
    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.

    https://www.rei.com/blog/news/social-distancing-when-outdoors

    Today at the regional park I go to I went past the main gate which I do not usually use. The main parking lot was about half full. But on the street right outside the main gate where surveillance access is presumably just a little bit less the cars were parked bumper to bumper for close to a mile on both sides of the road.

    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.

    Food–bring it along? (Or use a mask in the store just like you do at home.)
    Gas–self service.
    Piss–trees are everywhere.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    My own opinion is that there is a message between the lines of the REI post. It is not good public relations to be going on about your own business seemingly minimally affected while 99.9% of all of those around us are freaking out and suffering. Not going on trips requiring more than an hour of automobile travel is sort of the least we can be expected to do. Or something like that.

    Nobody wants to be reminded if the worst you have suffered is your fidelity index fund dropped a couple hundred thou.

    I just finished reading a thread where it was asserted without argument that unmasked customers should be turned away at the grocery store and that unmasked people off their property should be shot like they are doing in Manila. By posters who I recognized and who never before displayed any internet insanity.

    This is a useful text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Death-Government-Genocide-Murder-Since/dp/1560009276
  58. @anon
    The response to this pandemic is going to go down in history as one of the most counterproductive embroglios in the history of man. Our leaders are the keystone cops. They make literally the worst possible calls at every turn. Insisting you should not wear masks when it's the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that's the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Shutting down the entire economy, dooming 2-5x as many people to deaths of despair through substance abuse and suicide as you save during the pandemic itself. Worse yet, the people saved have 4 years average life expectancy and the people doomed 40 years.

    You should have told everyone under 65 to make makeshift face coverings, use sensible precautions and, after a very brief "shutdown" to communicate the gravity of the situation to people, told them to go back to work. This whole thing is becoming an absurd farce.

    Insisting you should not wear masks when it’s the best thing you can do. Forcing you to sit inside when that’s the worst thing you could do. -_-

    Telling you that wearing a mask is useless …
    and
    that going to the beach is bad with that dangerous fresh, humid, salt air …

    just a big f.u. to Americans.

    But let’s be honest, our “cosmopolitan globalist” elites have been giving a big f.u. to Americans–louder and louder each year– for 50+ with “nation of immigrants”.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  59. The great outdoors likely has many benefits. Interesting video on the potential benefits of walking in a Forrest. Real science not some Boulder, CO Shamen scam.

  60. @Barnard
    In summary, there is no justification for closing National and state parks, golf courses, etc. Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing.

    And when they’re done send them to notify the moron in Madison.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    The “moron in Madison” just opened golf courses on a limited basis.
  61. @AnotherDad

    REI says going outdoors is great provided you can get there without pitstops for buying gasoline, food, and taking a piss.
     
    Food--bring it along? (Or use a mask in the store just like you do at home.)
    Gas--self service.
    Piss--trees are everywhere.

    My own opinion is that there is a message between the lines of the REI post. It is not good public relations to be going on about your own business seemingly minimally affected while 99.9% of all of those around us are freaking out and suffering. Not going on trips requiring more than an hour of automobile travel is sort of the least we can be expected to do. Or something like that.

    Nobody wants to be reminded if the worst you have suffered is your fidelity index fund dropped a couple hundred thou.

    I just finished reading a thread where it was asserted without argument that unmasked customers should be turned away at the grocery store and that unmasked people off their property should be shot like they are doing in Manila. By posters who I recognized and who never before displayed any internet insanity.

    This is a useful text:

  62. @HA
    "The Wuhan Depression is on:"

    How can we be sure? How do we know it's not just the media creating a panic in order to further their political agenda? They seem to be really laying it on thick -- isn't that proof that this is all just a hoax? How do we know these supposedly bankrupt firms aren't just groups of crisis actors? After all, I don't see millions of people dropping dead of poverty, so why all these drastic and costly measures to boost the economy on the part of the politicians?

    I mean, firms go bankrupt all the time. Downturms come and go. Shouldn't we learn to accept that as a part of life and stop striving for some ridiculously unnatural and disastrously unsustainable growth that we've come to expect?

    And what if the vast majority of people being driven into bankruptcy are people who were already on the verge of going under? If you look closely, I suspect you'll find that the vast majority of these people have some other economic issue already. And what if most of those being affected are part of some really whiny age-bracket that I don't care for? Why should we let that group of tantrum-throwing narcissists hog even more of the spotlight?

    Don't listen to all these so-called experts or their so-called projections. My hunches are far more trustworthy than they are, and anyone who disagrees with me is part of the con. That especially goes for you, Sailer.

    There's really nothing to see here. It's just a seasonal economic correction, bro.

    I see the doomers are hunkered down and never giving in that they were wrong.

    Interesting strategy….

  63. @Lot
    The Wuhan Depression is on:

    Bankruptcy headlines -

    Filed yesterday: Frontier Communications - ISP with more than 10B in debt, 4 years ago stock was above 80, now 39 cents

    April 1: Whiting Petroleum files, asks court to convert 2.2 billion of its debt to equity.

    Verge of bankruptcy, likely preparing the filing right now:

    Houston based 778-location discounter Stage Stores, all stores shut, 87% of HQ staff laid off

    JC Penney: missed debt interest payment today, exploring bankruptcy according to many leaks

    Denbury Resources: Texas oil company, bonds due next year trading for 18 cents

    Macy’s: 125 planned additional store closures on top of the recent 100, hires debt restructuring firms

    Neiman Marcus

    Philly Fed Survey: about 25% of businesses have stopped operating in the region, another quarter have 30% or more revenue declines.

    Large apartment complex survey: 16% of renters have not made their latest rent payment, up from 9% the prior month.

    NY Fed Manufacturing Index, -78, even worse than expected, prior all time low was -38 in 2009. +10 is normal.

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    United: 90% of May and June flights cancelled.

    828,800 unemployment claims filed in Michigan from March 8 to April 4. Prior worst ever month was Jan 2009, at 77,000.



    Hotel revenue down 85.6% in week ending April 11. Hawaii is doing worst, down 94%. These figures may be too optimistic as they do not include hotels companies that have stopped operating completely.

    The obvious question being, how much of this can be turned back on when these insane shelter in place orders are lifted? We won’t see dramatic numbers like that on the upswing, I’d bet. I suppose the question is how long will the expansion last after we open things back up? How much will we expand? And will we contract right away again?

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.

    I read some stuff online (so the truthfulness is dubious) about how many of the AirBNB places are owned by people who act as “landlords” and constantly rent out multiple places as their job. Most of these guys are highly leveraged. In other words, AirBNB isn’t running off the backs of people renting out their spare bedroom or house when they’re gone for the weekend. Same way Uber drivers aren’t people doing it in their spare time but as their actual jobs. If that’s the case, I think you can expect widespread defaults of those properties. The question being: how many are out there and will it adversely affect the overall mortgage/property market?

    • Replies: @Lot
    AirBNB is very big in California and is a mix of full time pros and people just renting out their bedroom or single investment property.

    The worst practices are people who rent an apartment advertised as a long term rental and then list it on AirBNB, a heavily African and Asian immigrant business practice that can get the landlord in trouble with zoning and HOA rules. Such people lie on their rental applications and say they intend to live there.

    The Uber drivers I’ve talked with on rides seem to be about 50/50 full time versus side work. Full time you get near minimum wage, part time you can wait for surge pricing and get more like 30/hr. The wisdom on the big UberPeople message board is trying to do full time is unwise.
  64. Closing beaches and parks is not a good idea. Ya think? Nothing got me more disgusted and pissed at our idiot bag lady of a governor than closing out door spaces. That was just about proving she was top bitch and contrary to any notion of common sense

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  65. @theMann
    Let me preface this with "I can't believe I am agreeing with Run Unz". Ok, got that out of the way.

    People produce antibodies upon exposure to disease and develop immunity. Most people, however, are incapable of developing " antibodies" to Media Lies. No matter how many times they are lied to, they still believe the next lie. Just in my lifetime we have had: Kennedy Assassination, Gulf of Tonkin, Tet Offensive, Nixon Impeachment, Alar Scare, Acid Rain, McMartin Preschool, Tawana Brawley, 9-11 (aka, The Big Enchilada), Nayirah Testimony, Kavanaugh Hearing, Trevon Martin, and aproximately one billion other Media Lies vomited forth upon us.

    And yet somehow THIS TIME everything we are told about CoronaFraud is the absolute truth.


    The mass of men are incapable of believing anything, unless it is a lie. And the terrible tragedy is that that remain incapable of believing anything but lies no matter how many times the lies are exposed to them.

    Well put. The level of lies/propaganda (commercials are all in too) on the shitbox is mind boggling. I’m astounded and disgusted at the same time.

  66. @HA
    "The Wuhan Depression is on:"

    How can we be sure? How do we know it's not just the media creating a panic in order to further their political agenda? They seem to be really laying it on thick -- isn't that proof that this is all just a hoax? How do we know these supposedly bankrupt firms aren't just groups of crisis actors? After all, I don't see millions of people dropping dead of poverty, so why all these drastic and costly measures to boost the economy on the part of the politicians?

    I mean, firms go bankrupt all the time. Downturms come and go. Shouldn't we learn to accept that as a part of life and stop striving for some ridiculously unnatural and disastrously unsustainable growth that we've come to expect?

    And what if the vast majority of people being driven into bankruptcy are people who were already on the verge of going under? If you look closely, I suspect you'll find that the vast majority of these people have some other economic issue already. And what if most of those being affected are part of some really whiny age-bracket that I don't care for? Why should we let that group of tantrum-throwing narcissists hog even more of the spotlight?

    Don't listen to all these so-called experts or their so-called projections. My hunches are far more trustworthy than they are, and anyone who disagrees with me is part of the con. That especially goes for you, Sailer.

    There's really nothing to see here. It's just a seasonal economic correction, bro.

    Thanks, Whiskey!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Whiskey's obsessed with sex, not age. Your comment reveals more about you than about him.
  67. @trelane
    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It's coordinated. Why is anyone's guess.

    Yeah, the modified limited hangout has now been activated, having been seeded weeks ago in less savory sources.

  68. For what it’s worth, about half of New York State’s population lives south of the Tappan Zee Bridge, but approximately 90% of the cases are reported there.

    We’re overdue to get an inheritance check sent from an upstate law office, and I suspect they’re using this as an excuse for further delay.

    The county has about 1/15 the state’s rate of infection. Which is not much more than 1/30 of downstate’s.

  69. @Corvinus
    Thanks, Whiskey!

    Whiskey’s obsessed with sex, not age. Your comment reveals more about you than about him.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Whiskey’s obsessed with sex, not age."

    I didn't make any comment to the contrary. Rather, my "thanks" was a dig at HA's continuance of the "Covid-19 hoax", which is a conspiracy theory, which is something Whiskey knows all too well.

    "Your comment reveals more about you than about him."

    Right, that I, along with Mr. Sailer, are not falling for the narrative of the Coronavirus deniers.


  70. [MORE]

  71. @Polynikes
    And when they're done send them to notify the moron in Madison.

    The “moron in Madison” just opened golf courses on a limited basis.

  72. @Redman
    Do you live in a place where all the college kids are home? I do and see the same trend. They’re bored out of their minds and want to get out. I don’t blame them.

    It’s worse for children. Keeping a child indoors for extended perios of time is inhumane and unhealthy. Not to mention they must drive their parents out of their minds.

  73. @Polynikes
    The obvious question being, how much of this can be turned back on when these insane shelter in place orders are lifted? We won't see dramatic numbers like that on the upswing, I'd bet. I suppose the question is how long will the expansion last after we open things back up? How much will we expand? And will we contract right away again?

    AirBNB forced to pay 12% interest on its latest loan.
     
    I read some stuff online (so the truthfulness is dubious) about how many of the AirBNB places are owned by people who act as "landlords" and constantly rent out multiple places as their job. Most of these guys are highly leveraged. In other words, AirBNB isn't running off the backs of people renting out their spare bedroom or house when they're gone for the weekend. Same way Uber drivers aren't people doing it in their spare time but as their actual jobs. If that's the case, I think you can expect widespread defaults of those properties. The question being: how many are out there and will it adversely affect the overall mortgage/property market?

    AirBNB is very big in California and is a mix of full time pros and people just renting out their bedroom or single investment property.

    The worst practices are people who rent an apartment advertised as a long term rental and then list it on AirBNB, a heavily African and Asian immigrant business practice that can get the landlord in trouble with zoning and HOA rules. Such people lie on their rental applications and say they intend to live there.

    The Uber drivers I’ve talked with on rides seem to be about 50/50 full time versus side work. Full time you get near minimum wage, part time you can wait for surge pricing and get more like 30/hr. The wisdom on the big UberPeople message board is trying to do full time is unwise.

  74. @Reg Cæsar
    Whiskey's obsessed with sex, not age. Your comment reveals more about you than about him.

    “Whiskey’s obsessed with sex, not age.”

    I didn’t make any comment to the contrary. Rather, my “thanks” was a dig at HA’s continuance of the “Covid-19 hoax”, which is a conspiracy theory, which is something Whiskey knows all too well.

    “Your comment reveals more about you than about him.”

    Right, that I, along with Mr. Sailer, are not falling for the narrative of the Coronavirus deniers.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    my “thanks” was a dig at HA’s continuance of the “Covid-19 hoax”, which is a conspiracy theory,
     
    I'm fairly certain that HA was actually engaging in sarcasm, mocking the hoaxers.
  75. @res
    Ron, have you looked into the genetic analysis of the Corona virus spread? The closest human genetic links to the bat source have some odd behavior in their network (connected rather than tree-like). I wonder if that might have some bearing on the bioweapon theory. Some details (and further links) in this comment:
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/models-the-logic-of-failure/#comment-3839443
    There is even more detail in my follow-on comment (a response to that) which has not made it out of moderation yet.

    If you know someone with academic credentials (to get the current GISAID data) this might be worth looking into.

    “…bearing on the bioweapon theory”

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3792676
    The stigma and fatwa awaiting any microbiologist who would pursue the hypothesis that the virus was lab created is so great that I must take any claims that the culprit virus is natural with a grain of salt.

    Otoh, I think it should not be too expensive to hire a postdoc outside of academia setting and have him go through the completed database of viruses including all versions of the covid-19 to get an impartial, outside of the academia and national research labs opinion about the likelihood of covid-19 being natural or not. This would require some detective work of looking into the precursor viruses that are considered natural whether indeed they are natural: who found them first and where and do they have their own precursors in nature or did they come ab nihilo.

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/a-viral-pandemic-or-a-crime-scene/#comment-3833474
    Crime scene? Disinformation campaign? Who is doing investigating and who is planting false leads? Who among the many homegrown Sherlock Holmeses is a witless patsy? How to be an objective witness when being a subject of the disinformation campaign?

    I strongly recommend reading on the Operation Infection that was a very successful KGB lead disinformation campaign in 1980’s. Articles were planted in a minor paper in the 2nd world country, scientist insinuating alternative narrative were sent to minor conferences, they gave interviews to 2nd rate news networks, then a major Soviet Block paper picked it up, then some 2nd rate paper in the West picked it up and soon people with right confirmation bias began to believe the story. Then in the 1980s they did not have internet so the process of seeding the story and whipping it up from the level of whispers to the storm took much longer.

    Czech microbiologist Sona Pekova in March:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL7okhbVzU&feature=youtu.be

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3832597
    Now go back to Sona Pekova, MD, PhD. What do you know about her? Yes, she is a microbiologist though her publications do not deal with viruses. Currently she is a head of the laboratory, expert supervisor at testing lab Tilia Laboratories in Czech Republic 20km North-West from Prague. They seems to be doing routine tests for human and animal genetics and diseases. The Tilia Laboratories must be a very small outfit as only three employees are listed. One of them is Miroslav Pek, MD who likely is Sona’s husband. He had a very interesting scholarship (?) and affiliations in the past:

    Miroslav Pek, MD
    2005 USMRICD, Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD, USA and USAMRIID, Fort Detrick, MD, USA
    2001 – 2003 Head of Epidemiology Department, Military Health Institute Prague
    2003 – 2013 Deputy Director, Military Health Institute Prague

    Now find out who and when did the interview with Sona? One commenter 1 week ago said that the interview was 3 weeks old. Which paper in Czech Republic first picked up the story (AE News) and who used that story in the next step (Dimsumdaily Hong Kong).

    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for the links. There is a significant difference between providing the references and detailed analysis procedures for how to do something and vaguely noting that it is possible.

    I actually reproduced the paper analysis showing the network circa March 3rd with the bat genome included. My point was that it should be straightforward for someone with academic credentials (which I don't have, otherwise I would do it myself) to get the GISAID data and update the analysis by adding the bat genome (which I included) to the latest GSIAID data.
  76. @Paleo Liberal
    Was the Mardi Gras spread from indoor or outdoor contact?

    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras – but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds… direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    There is also this outlandish but persistent conspiracy theory that in preCov times, people used to congregate[1] in medium-sized open-plan structures, where they would drink stupefiants while routinely standing less than 2m apart (TF???).

    Often, they would acquire these stupefiants by giving flimsy rectangular tokens to one of a small group of people (called ‘tenders’ for some reason). The ‘tenders’ would often give them small, round, unsanitary metallic tokens in addition to an unsanitary receptacle full of stupefiant.

    Now obviously, that whole story is just plain ridiculous. Only a wingnut tinfoil-hat numbnuts would find it plausible – I only mention it for completeness.

    [1] ‘congregate’ – according to these conspiracy nutcases, was a word in preCov English that meant ‘get together in groups of more than 2, in a public place‘.

    • Replies: @anon
    Paleo Liberal
    Indoor or outdoor contact

    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras – but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds… direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    Dude, just say "both, and...." that completely answers Paleo's question.

    https://batonrougefamilyfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/3-1.jpg

    Reminds me, last year I was flying in the NE part of the US when a guy in front of me at the TSA interrogation point just said flat out "I'll open it" before his carry on went into the X-ray. He had pounds of beads, and apparently they look pretty odd on the 'scope. He was already in the "bon ton roulez" mindset.
  77. @utu
    "...bearing on the bioweapon theory"

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/#comment-3792676
    The stigma and fatwa awaiting any microbiologist who would pursue the hypothesis that the virus was lab created is so great that I must take any claims that the culprit virus is natural with a grain of salt.

    Otoh, I think it should not be too expensive to hire a postdoc outside of academia setting and have him go through the completed database of viruses including all versions of the covid-19 to get an impartial, outside of the academia and national research labs opinion about the likelihood of covid-19 being natural or not. This would require some detective work of looking into the precursor viruses that are considered natural whether indeed they are natural: who found them first and where and do they have their own precursors in nature or did they come ab nihilo.
     

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/a-viral-pandemic-or-a-crime-scene/#comment-3833474
    Crime scene? Disinformation campaign? Who is doing investigating and who is planting false leads? Who among the many homegrown Sherlock Holmeses is a witless patsy? How to be an objective witness when being a subject of the disinformation campaign?

    I strongly recommend reading on the Operation Infection that was a very successful KGB lead disinformation campaign in 1980’s. Articles were planted in a minor paper in the 2nd world country, scientist insinuating alternative narrative were sent to minor conferences, they gave interviews to 2nd rate news networks, then a major Soviet Block paper picked it up, then some 2nd rate paper in the West picked it up and soon people with right confirmation bias began to believe the story. Then in the 1980s they did not have internet so the process of seeding the story and whipping it up from the level of whispers to the storm took much longer.
     
    Czech microbiologist Sona Pekova in March:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL7okhbVzU&feature=youtu.be

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3832597
    Now go back to Sona Pekova, MD, PhD. What do you know about her? Yes, she is a microbiologist though her publications do not deal with viruses. Currently she is a head of the laboratory, expert supervisor at testing lab Tilia Laboratories in Czech Republic 20km North-West from Prague. They seems to be doing routine tests for human and animal genetics and diseases. The Tilia Laboratories must be a very small outfit as only three employees are listed. One of them is Miroslav Pek, MD who likely is Sona’s husband. He had a very interesting scholarship (?) and affiliations in the past:

    Miroslav Pek, MD
    2005 USMRICD, Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD, USA and USAMRIID, Fort Detrick, MD, USA
    2001 – 2003 Head of Epidemiology Department, Military Health Institute Prague
    2003 – 2013 Deputy Director, Military Health Institute Prague

    Now find out who and when did the interview with Sona? One commenter 1 week ago said that the interview was 3 weeks old. Which paper in Czech Republic first picked up the story (AE News) and who used that story in the next step (Dimsumdaily Hong Kong).
     

    Thanks for the links. There is a significant difference between providing the references and detailed analysis procedures for how to do something and vaguely noting that it is possible.

    I actually reproduced the paper analysis showing the network circa March 3rd with the bat genome included. My point was that it should be straightforward for someone with academic credentials (which I don’t have, otherwise I would do it myself) to get the GISAID data and update the analysis by adding the bat genome (which I included) to the latest GSIAID data.

    • Replies: @utu
    I agree and appreciate what you are doing. The question about possible synthetic origins of the virus and the implication of it being a bioweapon is so sensitive that no lab and no researcher will be allowed to elaborate on it unless he/she is a part of dis/information war that is conducted as we speak by intelligence services of main players: USA, China, Russia, Israel.

    "I would do it myself" - I wish you could. We are all laymen here unfortunately. I only know that the genetic distance in terms of mutations between viruses can be measured but I have no idea if the direction of the vector of mutation can be established to determine which one is mother and which one is daughter. I can imagine of a chimera virus that is created from merging fragments of several significantly different viruses that would require too many mutations to be a product of natural random mutations. Sona Pekova argument was that the intermediate stages would be not viable which is a similar argument to that used by some creationists. But who is Sona Pekova? I speculated how 'ancestors' of new synthetic virus could be introduced into the environment to cover tracks:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831693
    New virus makers could go around the problem altogether by creating the intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the natural environments (like bats and pangolins) and then having them discovered by a ‘friendly’ scientist and published and cataloged in the virus directory. So when the suspect new virus is studied, its natural antecedents would be waiting in the catalog to be found to show a plausible natural evolutionary path.
     
    Anyway, keep digging.
  78. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes
    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras - but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds... direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    There is also this outlandish but persistent conspiracy theory that in preCov times, people used to congregate[1] in medium-sized open-plan structures, where they would drink stupefiants while routinely standing less than 2m apart (TF???).

    Often, they would acquire these stupefiants by giving flimsy rectangular tokens to one of a small group of people (called 'tenders' for some reason). The 'tenders' would often give them small, round, unsanitary metallic tokens in addition to an unsanitary receptacle full of stupefiant.

    Now obviously, that whole story is just plain ridiculous. Only a wingnut tinfoil-hat numbnuts would find it plausible - I only mention it for completeness.

    [1] 'congregate' - according to these conspiracy nutcases, was a word in preCov English that meant 'get together in groups of more than 2, in a public place'.

    Paleo Liberal
    Indoor or outdoor contact

    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras – but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds… direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    Dude, just say “both, and….” that completely answers Paleo’s question.

    Reminds me, last year I was flying in the NE part of the US when a guy in front of me at the TSA interrogation point just said flat out “I’ll open it” before his carry on went into the X-ray. He had pounds of beads, and apparently they look pretty odd on the ‘scope. He was already in the “bon ton roulez” mindset.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    What is "bon ton roulez"? Is that Creole dialect?
  79. @Paul Jolliffe
    Barnard said:

    "Someone should notify the lunatic in Lansing."

    Agreed, Barnard.

    But for Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan's Democratic Governor), this is no longer about "saving lives".

    No, it's now about saving political face (she's currently the third favorite on Election Betting Odds to be named Biden's VP candidate).

    It's also about showing how sympathetic she is to black victims: the city of Detroit (the blackest city in America) has many victims, but virtually all of them are dying with the conditions to which blacks are especially prone: diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, gross obesity, etc.

    So of course small boat owners can't take their private boats on to the Detroit River right now to fish for walleye - with no (as in NO) demonstrated risk of transmission, it would seem to be a stupid order on Whitmer's part.

    But fishing in small private boats is practically an all white activity, and if she didn't shut that down, her voting bloc might notice. And she can't have that.

    So, no boating or golf for us white men . . .

    (I hope she's humiliated in the next election. I will vote for anyone, and I mean anyone who opposes Gretchen Whitmer in the next election.)

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/10/whitmer-hits-reverse-no-motorized-boats-allowed-under-stay-home-order/5135504002/

    Governor Whitmer is on Mr. Biden’s short list?

    Please, oh, please, please, please, pick her, pick her.

    Mr. Trump’s campaign ads would just write themselves.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    Inquiring Mind asked: "Governor Whitmer is on Mr. Biden's short list?"

    Kamala Harris is the favorite to win the VP nomination, but Whitmer is third (albeit fading now):

    https://electionbettingodds.com/DemVP2020.html
  80. @anon
    Paleo Liberal
    Indoor or outdoor contact

    What happens at Mardi Gras stays at Mardi Gras – but in the interests of SCIENCE, and as horrible as it sounds… direct exchange of precious bodily fluids is probably the most likely vector.

    Dude, just say "both, and...." that completely answers Paleo's question.

    https://batonrougefamilyfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/3-1.jpg

    Reminds me, last year I was flying in the NE part of the US when a guy in front of me at the TSA interrogation point just said flat out "I'll open it" before his carry on went into the X-ray. He had pounds of beads, and apparently they look pretty odd on the 'scope. He was already in the "bon ton roulez" mindset.

    What is “bon ton roulez”? Is that Creole dialect?

    • Replies: @anon
    What is “bon ton roulez”? Is that Creole dialect?

    Nah, that's me being lazy. I searched and what I meant to write is: "Laissez les bons temps rouler" mindset.

    But I reckon plenty of people would get "bon ton roulez" as close enough.
  81. @res
    Thanks for the links. There is a significant difference between providing the references and detailed analysis procedures for how to do something and vaguely noting that it is possible.

    I actually reproduced the paper analysis showing the network circa March 3rd with the bat genome included. My point was that it should be straightforward for someone with academic credentials (which I don't have, otherwise I would do it myself) to get the GISAID data and update the analysis by adding the bat genome (which I included) to the latest GSIAID data.

    I agree and appreciate what you are doing. The question about possible synthetic origins of the virus and the implication of it being a bioweapon is so sensitive that no lab and no researcher will be allowed to elaborate on it unless he/she is a part of dis/information war that is conducted as we speak by intelligence services of main players: USA, China, Russia, Israel.

    “I would do it myself” – I wish you could. We are all laymen here unfortunately. I only know that the genetic distance in terms of mutations between viruses can be measured but I have no idea if the direction of the vector of mutation can be established to determine which one is mother and which one is daughter. I can imagine of a chimera virus that is created from merging fragments of several significantly different viruses that would require too many mutations to be a product of natural random mutations. Sona Pekova argument was that the intermediate stages would be not viable which is a similar argument to that used by some creationists. But who is Sona Pekova? I speculated how ‘ancestors’ of new synthetic virus could be introduced into the environment to cover tracks:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831693
    New virus makers could go around the problem altogether by creating the intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the natural environments (like bats and pangolins) and then having them discovered by a ‘friendly’ scientist and published and cataloged in the virus directory. So when the suspect new virus is studied, its natural antecedents would be waiting in the catalog to be found to show a plausible natural evolutionary path.

    Anyway, keep digging.

    • Replies: @res

    but I have no idea if the direction of the vector of mutation can be established to determine which one is mother and which one is daughter.
     
    That's the hard part. Forster attempts to get at it by assuming the bat coronavirus genome is the original. Which seems reasonable.

    The problem is, as I go on about at some length in those other comments, that the geometry of the genetic network near the connection from the bat version to the human network is oddly complicated. When the geometry is a tree you can pretty much infer direction. When there are cycles it is harder.

    My hope is that increasing the number of genomes from 160 to over 3000 would clarify things. But most of the new data will probably be far from the origin, so perhaps not.

    Anyway, keep digging.
     
    Thanks. If James Thompson is able to interest some people in getting the data and looking at it I think we could learn something.

    The other way to attack this would be for someone to sequence more bat coronavirus genomes to see if we could narrow the gap with the human network. But that would be a job for the pros. And unlikely to happen for the reasons you note.
  82. @Inquiring Mind
    What is "bon ton roulez"? Is that Creole dialect?

    What is “bon ton roulez”? Is that Creole dialect?

    Nah, that’s me being lazy. I searched and what I meant to write is: “Laissez les bons temps rouler” mindset.

    But I reckon plenty of people would get “bon ton roulez” as close enough.

  83. @utu
    I agree and appreciate what you are doing. The question about possible synthetic origins of the virus and the implication of it being a bioweapon is so sensitive that no lab and no researcher will be allowed to elaborate on it unless he/she is a part of dis/information war that is conducted as we speak by intelligence services of main players: USA, China, Russia, Israel.

    "I would do it myself" - I wish you could. We are all laymen here unfortunately. I only know that the genetic distance in terms of mutations between viruses can be measured but I have no idea if the direction of the vector of mutation can be established to determine which one is mother and which one is daughter. I can imagine of a chimera virus that is created from merging fragments of several significantly different viruses that would require too many mutations to be a product of natural random mutations. Sona Pekova argument was that the intermediate stages would be not viable which is a similar argument to that used by some creationists. But who is Sona Pekova? I speculated how 'ancestors' of new synthetic virus could be introduced into the environment to cover tracks:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831693
    New virus makers could go around the problem altogether by creating the intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the natural environments (like bats and pangolins) and then having them discovered by a ‘friendly’ scientist and published and cataloged in the virus directory. So when the suspect new virus is studied, its natural antecedents would be waiting in the catalog to be found to show a plausible natural evolutionary path.
     
    Anyway, keep digging.

    but I have no idea if the direction of the vector of mutation can be established to determine which one is mother and which one is daughter.

    That’s the hard part. Forster attempts to get at it by assuming the bat coronavirus genome is the original. Which seems reasonable.

    The problem is, as I go on about at some length in those other comments, that the geometry of the genetic network near the connection from the bat version to the human network is oddly complicated. When the geometry is a tree you can pretty much infer direction. When there are cycles it is harder.

    My hope is that increasing the number of genomes from 160 to over 3000 would clarify things. But most of the new data will probably be far from the origin, so perhaps not.

    Anyway, keep digging.

    Thanks. If James Thompson is able to interest some people in getting the data and looking at it I think we could learn something.

    The other way to attack this would be for someone to sequence more bat coronavirus genomes to see if we could narrow the gap with the human network. But that would be a job for the pros. And unlikely to happen for the reasons you note.

  84. @Ron Unz

    ABC news and Washington Post have also recently released lab-leak stories like this, clearly from deep state sources. It’s coordinated. Why is anyone’s guess.
     
    The pro-Israel shills who hang around this website are certainly a totally brainless bunch, who just believe whatever nonsense they happen to see on FoxNews. After 9/11, I'm sure they all believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were close allies in the 9/11 attack. Frankly, one of the strongest indications that Israel may have been behind the Coronavirus outbreak is how "agitated" all the most notorious pro-Israel shills are on this issue.

    Let's consider the plausibility of the "accidental Wuhan Lab Leak" theory. As I've repeatedly pointed out:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.
     
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/?showcomments#comment-3753228

    Israeli TV says US intel warned IDF & NATO of coronavirus threat in NOVEMBER 2019, doubling down on claims dismissed by… US intel

    https://www.rt.com/news/486072-us-intelligence-israel-coronavirus/
    American intelligence passed an early warning about the coronavirus to Tel Aviv and NATO as far back as November, Israel’s Channel 12 claims, even after a top US medical intel officer dismissed a similar report just last week.

    The broadcaster aired a story on Thursday alleging that the US intelligence community shared classified information about a new viral outbreak in China with the Israeli military and senior NATO officials. With nobody willing to go on record to confirm the report, however, the story is based on murky anonymous sourcing, leaving it a mystery where the claim originated.

    “Still in November, the IDF held a first discussion regarding what impact this unknown disease would have were it to reach the Middle East. How would we be affected? How would it affect our neighbors?” the Channel 12 broadcast said, as cited by i24 News.

    So what is the purpose of this leak? We knew nothing about the disease. But yes the IDF held meetings about it already in November but only because Americans told us. Will China ask: How could you know it in November if we did not know? Or is it Russian/Chinese disinfo? Who planted it in Channel 12? Who owns Channel 12?

  85. @Inquiring Mind
    Governor Whitmer is on Mr. Biden's short list?

    Please, oh, please, please, please, pick her, pick her.

    Mr. Trump's campaign ads would just write themselves.

    Inquiring Mind asked: “Governor Whitmer is on Mr. Biden’s short list?”

    Kamala Harris is the favorite to win the VP nomination, but Whitmer is third (albeit fading now):

    https://electionbettingodds.com/DemVP2020.html

  86. @Corvinus
    "Whiskey’s obsessed with sex, not age."

    I didn't make any comment to the contrary. Rather, my "thanks" was a dig at HA's continuance of the "Covid-19 hoax", which is a conspiracy theory, which is something Whiskey knows all too well.

    "Your comment reveals more about you than about him."

    Right, that I, along with Mr. Sailer, are not falling for the narrative of the Coronavirus deniers.

    my “thanks” was a dig at HA’s continuance of the “Covid-19 hoax”, which is a conspiracy theory,

    I’m fairly certain that HA was actually engaging in sarcasm, mocking the hoaxers.

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