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The Extinction of the Tomboy
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On Twitter, a mother writes:

One of the many infuriating things about how gender identity ideology is permeating society, is that a happy, confident, tomboy girl like my daughter comes home from day camp confused & sad b/c people keep asking her “Are you sure you’re a girl? Are you really a boy?” She’s now afraid to get her hair cut because she feels it will make people think she’s a boy, when all she wants is to be herself — a girl with stereotypically masculine interests & hobbies & personal style. Genderism is regressive & is crowding out true individuality & self acceptance.

We used to have millions of tomboys.

E.g., it’s pretty common in classic American children’s novels by women for the author stand-in to be a tomboy, such as Jo in Little Women, Laura in Little House on the Prairie, and Scout in To Catch a Mockingbird.

But now we have gender ideology.

It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”

A big reason for this insanity is that we’ve let high IQ masculine men who like to dress up in women’s lingerie and masturbate in front of the mirror claim that their fetish is an identity: they could always tell that they were different from the other boys. Yeah, they felt the other boys were their inferiors as they became the World’s Greatest Athlete or the quarterback of the Harvard football team.

The complete lack of pushback against autogynephilic he-men claiming to have always suspected they were really girls — after all, Bruce Jenner must have felt less than 100% masculine compared to some of his 1976 US Olympic teammates such as boxers Sugar Ray Leonard and Michael and Leon Spinks. So, if you can’t compete with the girliest girl in you class for girliness, that proves you are really a boy and something must be done about it.

 
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  1. This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity. As in Airstrip One, everything has to have a category, and all categories must come with a straightforward judgment. Their inability to think forces them to crush the very things they wanted to protect.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @J.Ross

    Brilliant comment, sir. I can't prove it, but I think the "totalitarians" originate in our agenda- and careerist-driven academy, and probably amounts to something like intellectual malpractice.

    Our intellectual elites are so hungry to make names for themselves and grab a steady academic job, they're willing to create phony-baloney fixity and depth and substance to trivial behavioral variations--such as tomboy behavior. Call it the revenge of the four-eyed geeks who got beaten up in gym class.

    My sister wore baseball caps and jeans with the cuffs rolled up the ankles on occasion when she was a young teenager in the late 1950s. You know what that tomboy outfit meant? Nothing. My sister has little sports talent, and she's a genuine woman who ended a friendship with another woman who turned out to be a dyke on the make.

    , @AceDeuce
    @J.Ross


    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity.
     
    Ironically, Penn has a young daughter who now claims she's a male, and he has gone full "totalitarian" batschitt crazy in support of her insanity.

    LOL--I kinda like when sneering assholes like him (who is, of course, a very smart guy) who have no respect for anybody or anything--Mister skeptic, hard-edged rational cynic, get tripped up and made to look like a fool over something like pretending their mentally AFU girl is really a boy.

    Replies: @njguy73

    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @J.Ross

    Unfortunately, even Mr. Rational, Penn Jillette, has lost his mind over the trans hoax/psyop:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/and-a-child-shall-mislead-them/

    There’s an old saying I just coined: “When you laugh at God, He laughs back and best.” Because now Jillette—Mr. “no pseudoscience,” Mr. “no cults or flimflam”—has become the spokesperson for the biggest pseudoscientific cultlike flimflam of the 21st century. The guy who’s spent a career deconstructing magic (“no, the bouquet of flowers didn’t actually become a rabbit; it was sleight of hand”) is now a true believer that a girl can actually become a boy overnight, by the sheer power of mentalism!

    Abracagender!

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @J.Ross, @mc23

  2. We used to have millions of tomboys.

    If my upbringing was representative, a pretty unusual type. Off hand, I can remember one or two. I can find the one with this intertubes thingy. She’s been married close to 30 years and has a son born when she was about 35. She’s been in the same line of work since age 22 and had only 3 or 4 employers in that time. She’s a golf pro.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You must have lived under a rock. As with everything, there are differences of degree. Think of the field hockey team. (Maybe your school didn't have one.)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack P

  3. In 2008 in Poland I took my 8 year old daughter to a football session which a couple of her friends went to. She was the only girl. This made a huge impression on all the Mothers who afterwards crowded around her to praise her. (Not much praise for my male parenting though – never mind).

    I’d expect exactly the same kind of thing back in 1990 in UK. Poland is generally 15 -20 years behind W Europe in most cultural attitudes (at least in Warsaw).

  4. We still have women tennis pros but it might not be long before every single one of the top ten is going to be a Russian.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    A Russian Boy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpPrXGFU4Hw

    , @Muggles
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    We still have women tennis pros but it might not be long before every single one of the top ten is going to be a Russian.
     
    Or a "trans female."

    If this madness continues it will be rare for a real woman to excel in any competitive sport other than say, gymnastics.

    Some sports federations are waking up to this. The NCAA is now edging around this Woke mania.

    The federal government mandates "equal funding" for collegiate sports for educational institutions which receive federal grants and federal subsidized scholarships. Real women are now pushing back against the "Identity females" who otherwise will crowd them out for top ranks.

    I predict this will soon be before the Supreme Court. The Woke Dems will have to decide between actual feminist equality or Magical Thinking freaks.

    (As an aside, I'm wondering if women's "movement" groups required their paid employees or volunteers to get the Wuhan flu vax? The "Your Body, Your Life" crowd. Did they apply this slogan to mandatory vaccinations for COVID? Somehow I suspect they did not...)
  5. There’s also the partial tomboy, likes to hang out with boys and some boyish things, but is feminine in all other respects and has also girlfriends ( in the pre-LGBTI sense).

    • Agree: Hibernian
  6. I remember guys really liking tomboys in the 70s. Such girls often started dating earlier because it was easy for guys to talk to them and they were cool because they liked sports. I find it odd that an assertive tomboy-type could be confused by transgender nonsense. Too bad if it’s true because this means the loss of the kind of woman who would thrive as the mother of sons.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Unintended Consequence

    I agree with you and don’t think assertive, athletic tomboys are fooled by the transgender nonsense (unless they are groomed into by parents at a young age).

    I know a few female to male transgenders and they weren’t tomboys prior to transition. More like dorky chubby girls obsessed with anime, Tumblr, and fan fiction. These women were not masculine at all, despite playing video games and having an unkempt appearance. Very sensitive types, possibly on the spectrum. From what I’ve seen on Twitter where transgenders of both varieties tend to congregate, this is typical.

    If there are fewer tomboys now it’s because of social media or the overall feminization of the culture rather than transgenderism being trendy among the wackier segments of the population.

  7. Funny how this new liberation theology aligns so closely with Iranian government policy.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  8. @J.Ross
    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity. As in Airstrip One, everything has to have a category, and all categories must come with a straightforward judgment. Their inability to think forces them to crush the very things they wanted to protect.

    Replies: @JackOH, @AceDeuce, @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Brilliant comment, sir. I can’t prove it, but I think the “totalitarians” originate in our agenda- and careerist-driven academy, and probably amounts to something like intellectual malpractice.

    Our intellectual elites are so hungry to make names for themselves and grab a steady academic job, they’re willing to create phony-baloney fixity and depth and substance to trivial behavioral variations–such as tomboy behavior. Call it the revenge of the four-eyed geeks who got beaten up in gym class.

    My sister wore baseball caps and jeans with the cuffs rolled up the ankles on occasion when she was a young teenager in the late 1950s. You know what that tomboy outfit meant? Nothing. My sister has little sports talent, and she’s a genuine woman who ended a friendship with another woman who turned out to be a dyke on the make.

    • Thanks: J.Ross
  9. The other reason is smart phones and social media led teenage girls to be some of the biggest consumers and producers on the internet.

    It won’t be the extinction of Tom Boys or lesbians, it will be a great culling this generation of Tom Boys and lesbians (Or girls who proclaims a lesbian identity) with daddy issues.

    We talk, though maybe not enough, about psychopaths and their impact on society, maybe we should talk about the other people on the cluster B spectrum.

    The lack of pushback is because ordinary people are… ordinary, they don’t feel the need to affiliate as ‘ordinary people’ we declared this evil and so any group with enough sense of ‘ingroupness’ will prosper to greater or lesser damage to the interests of the ordinaries.

    If Steve was recognised enough by the members of this tribes who have macro-affiliated as what we’re more and more describing as the ‘woke’, would he say what he says? Now try being some teenage girl who has the pesky habit of not just going along with things, if anyone even notices what you have to say.

  10. @J.Ross
    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity. As in Airstrip One, everything has to have a category, and all categories must come with a straightforward judgment. Their inability to think forces them to crush the very things they wanted to protect.

    Replies: @JackOH, @AceDeuce, @Bard of Bumperstickers

    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity.

    Ironically, Penn has a young daughter who now claims she’s a male, and he has gone full “totalitarian” batschitt crazy in support of her insanity.

    LOL–I kinda like when sneering assholes like him (who is, of course, a very smart guy) who have no respect for anybody or anything–Mister skeptic, hard-edged rational cynic, get tripped up and made to look like a fool over something like pretending their mentally AFU girl is really a boy.

    • Agree: Daniel H, Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @njguy73
    @AceDeuce

    He named that daughter Moxie CrimeFighter Jillette. She wasn't going to learn to code, or open a yoga studio in a strip mall, or become an accounts payable manager.

    I think celebrities give their kids weird names to ensure that their kids can't be anything other than kids of celebrities.

  11. @J.Ross
    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity. As in Airstrip One, everything has to have a category, and all categories must come with a straightforward judgment. Their inability to think forces them to crush the very things they wanted to protect.

    Replies: @JackOH, @AceDeuce, @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Unfortunately, even Mr. Rational, Penn Jillette, has lost his mind over the trans hoax/psyop:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/and-a-child-shall-mislead-them/

    There’s an old saying I just coined: “When you laugh at God, He laughs back and best.” Because now Jillette—Mr. “no pseudoscience,” Mr. “no cults or flimflam”—has become the spokesperson for the biggest pseudoscientific cultlike flimflam of the 21st century. The guy who’s spent a career deconstructing magic (“no, the bouquet of flowers didn’t actually become a rabbit; it was sleight of hand”) is now a true believer that a girl can actually become a boy overnight, by the sheer power of mentalism!

    Abracagender!

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    I had not heard that. Very disappointing.

    He has always been one of my favorites precisely because of his "no bullshit" routine. Guess not anymore.

    , @J.Ross
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Live long enough to see people you admire turn to mush ...

    , @mc23
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    You can rationalize anything given enough words.

  12. Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    • Thanks: BB753
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Jonathan Mason

    I was about to mention George/Georgina, but you beat me to it.

    Enid Blyton would be doing hard time if she was alive today. She doesn't seem to have written one book that wouldn't be offensive to the sensibilities of today's moral guardians.

    Wikipedia on some of her stories:


    Sambo, the black doll of the title, is hated by his owner and other toys owing to his "ugly black face", and runs away. A shower of "magic rain" washes his face clean, after which he is welcomed back home with his now pink face. Jamaica Kincaid also considers the Noddy books to be "deeply racist" because of the blonde children and the black golliwogs.
     

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @jsm

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Jonathan Mason


    ... but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

     

    Around age 10, I inherited a bunch of those books from a cousin who had lived in the UK when he was a bit younger and was going off to college. I spent a happy year or so devouring English children's literature, Enid Blyton, the Biggles series, and all the rest. George wasn't the only tomboy character Enid Blyton wrote into her books, there was one called Bill in her Malory Towers girls boarding school series. There may have been others.

    I was curious and looked it up, and alas, it looks like that over in the UK, they've been noticed already in recent years and written off as repressed gender identity cases—who would have been better off in the modern era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/apr/03/the-literary-tomboy-enid-blyton-shakespeare

    The tomboy, as an idea, has slipped out of use as research and discourse around gender has progressed; as a term, it is too vague and limited. There are numerous reasons why someone assigned female at birth would not adhere to conservative gender roles. The idea of a tomboy fails to take into account the more contemporary idea of gender as a spectrum rather than a rigid binary. It also fails to acknowledge that for some, presenting as masculine is a fashion choice or a phase while for others it is the expression of their gender identity.
     


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7182793/New-stage-Enid-Blyton-classic-features-transgender-character.html

    A stage production of Enid Blyton's Malory Towers is to feature a nonbinary actor because producers believe a character in the classic books may be transgender.

    Blyton's children's series Malory Towers, written and published between 1946 and 1951, is set at a boarding school for girls in Cornwall.

    But Emma Rice, the woman behind a new stage version of the books, says the 'tomboy' character Bill may have been transgender, so is casting nonbinary actor Vinnie Heaven in the part.
     

    PS: Back in the day, the illustrators understood that a tomboy wasn't a boy, and were quite skilled in how they drew the character.

    https://i.imgur.com/hSauCNf.jpg

    , @DCThrowback
    @Jonathan Mason

    George Fayne in the Nancy Drew mystery series played the same role; the athletic tomboy.

    https://nancydrew.fandom.com/wiki/George_Fayne

    , @TelfoedJohn
    @Jonathan Mason

    A good modern kids story would be a tomboy and her gang trying to defeat some evil gender doctor trying to mutilate them. Maybe JK Rowling can write it.

    Replies: @Mike_from_SGV

    , @Che Guava
    @Jonathan Mason

    The series was still popular in Singapore many years later. I think Blyton's Secret Seven series also had a tomboy character, but not as much of a stand-out as George.

    On the subject, I saw a good French film simply titled Tomboy last year.

    It was made in the last three or so years.

    The good and surprising thing was that, although the protagonist was very serious about being a tomboy, there was absolutely no 'gender' message, except that she was a little worried that puberty was about to prevent her passing as a boy.

    The depressing thing was that, AFAIR, she, her parents, and her very girly younger sister were the only French people in the film, even though it is set in France.

    Still, recommended to those who like quiet and slightly melancholy cinema.

  13. Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female “counseling” industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it’s even stranger that you’re not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don’t think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don’t really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    • Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Jack D

    This is a good observation, but while they are clearly two different processes, they are connected under a political umbrella. Steve wrote about gay-lesbian differences years ago (in National Review, no less, when that magazine was worth something), and it’s true gay men and lesbians don’t have much in common, but the political drivers of Revolution use both. Similarly, the ex-men are not much up for psychology, but they benefit from spearheading a coalition that includes millions of sad girls fearful of puberty and joined with the aforesaid homo lobby.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @DCThrowback
    @Jack D

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2020/11/26/review-of-the-transgender-industrial-complex-by-scott-howard/

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D

    The nature of sexual fetishes is such that, if autogynephilia is psychologically related to fetishism (as seems likely), it is unlikely to be driving the current transgender craze.

    The high-achieving men like Steve's MBA classmate may be pushing society to accept transgendering, but not pushing girls to be transgender.

    From various "third sex" cultural institutions around the world, I think we can conclude that some small rate of cross-gender identification is normal and related to organic psychological deviations distinct from homosexuality.

    The current transgender phenomenon seems to me to be not one thing but overlapping and reinforcing trends:

    (1) A small cadre of Bruce Jenner types who actively try to change society through activism and law and draw attention to transgenderism through their fame.
    (2) A small number of authentic from-youth cross-gender-identifying individuals who have been receiving a lot attention relative to their tiny demographic and whose existence is used to defend perverse manipulative aspects of the current craze.
    (3) A group of deviants with sexual fetishes who now self-identify as transgender in order to justify their kinks. To me these are distinct from Bruce Jenner types as Bruce Jenner decided to live entirely as a woman, while some "transgenders" seem to be little more than transvestites. I met a guy once who inexplicably had gotten breast implants even though he was still sporting a thick manly beard and basically wore men's clothes--obviously not in the same category as Bruce Jenner.

    The movement then perpetuates itself through media exposure and dissembling by psychologists, political ideologues, and activists, and creates influence on young people, leading to...

    (4) Young homosexuals who are led to confuse their sexual preferences for gender identity.
    (5) Young people with weak personalities and atypical interests who are pressured to question their gender identity. These are your used-to-be-tomboys.
    (6) Young people whose brains have been hacked by the Internet and ubiquity of screens and images, and also especially of exposure to images of ourselves, which is somewhat novel in evolutionary time. From primates and non-sexual aspects of human behavior, I think we can conclude that humans--especially males--have a built-in mechanism to be aroused by others' arousal. Pornography doesn't simply operate at the level of "image of female nudity leads to sexual arousal." A lot of modern pornography focuses on images of male arousal and male genitalia and seeing women manipulating them. Somehow, this is not a turn-off, although logically you would think it would be a turn-off to witness women "choosing" other males "rather than" the viewer--in a sense being cuckolded by the actress. I think this counter-intuitive aspect of porn must be related to (a) the fact that human females' fertility cycles are relatively hidden compared to other mammals, and (b) the human ability to develop a theory of mind, which allows us to mentally inhabit scenes that we see instead of just experiencing them as pure viewers. It's my contention that some young people get overwhelmed by the constant stream of images and over-stimulation/over-use of "theory of mind" mechanisms such that the distinctions between desiring and being desired, for example, or between analyzing others' facial attractiveness or masculinity/femininity and analyzing our own start to be broken down, leading to confusion about gender.
    (7) People with small minds who suffer the hobgoblin of consistency. As Eric Kauffman has recently shown, LGBTQ self-identity has been increasing, although probably as a form of social signaling. However, if you identify as "queer" for social reasons, it might prompt you to consider whether your gender is accurate.

    , @Pixo
    @Jack D

    The autogyns are the high energy, high income, high-IQ leaders of the movement. They zero in and destroy anyone who publicly oppose trannymania.

    I agree the actual tranny-grooming is done by nutty leftist women in “helping professions” who are more numerous and actually in charge of children, unlike the engineer-economist-programmer-military autogyn type.

    , @West reanimator
    @Jack D

    The Pritzker mutant is a billionaire and has been shoveling money into every trans advocacy program for years.

    , @JimDandy
    @Jack D

    Admiral Levine and General Milley were teammates on their high school football team. One opted to become a woman and the other is a barely-closeted mincing fruit.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    , @James N. Kennett
    @Jack D


    Autogynephiles are strange and it’s even stranger that you’re not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don’t think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.
     
    I agree. Noticing the importance of autogynephilia in late-life M2F transitions is a brilliant observation; however I do not think it has much to do with adolescent F2Ms, except that it prepared the way by promoting transgender ideas in general and made it a career-limiting move not to give trans campaigners everything that they ask for.

    The extinction of tomboys has occurred not only in popular culture, but also among medical professionals who specialise in gender identity:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10231507/NHSs-gender-service-children-believes-girls-dont-like-pink-transgender.html


    Dr David Bell, a consultant psychiatrist who worked at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, which runs the UK's only gender identity development service for children, has said the department had a 'rigid, binary construction of gender'.

    And that the service's 'only acceptable explanation' for children who are 'unwilling or unable to conform to gender stereotypes' is that they are transgender.

    ...

    At the time, he concluded that ‘children’s needs are being met in a woeful, inadequate manner and some will live on with the damaging consequences’.

    Dr Bell described the service's work as a 'gateway to puberty blockers', adding that around 98 per cent of teens who received the treatment later took cross-sex hormones.

    He summarised the service's 'construction of gender' as 'if you don't like pink ribbons and dollies you are not really a girl' and claimed the centre is pushing drugs and even surgery on children as 'a form of conversion therapy'.
     

    , @MEH 0910
    @Jack D

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1549079718246449152

  14. I seem to recall Lionel Shriver making the same point about tomboys some years back, citing herself as an example. I knew a few tomboys growing up and generally it seemed to be with athletic girls that enjoyed sports with contact. The two that I still know something of are both married with kids.

    My youngest son has a girl in his class who when they were in like 7 decided she wanted her hair cut short, to wear boys clothes, and play little league baseball instead of softball, all of which she still does to the point that she wore a suit to a formal event when all the other girls were in dresses. Given her mother’s politics I was concerned there would be some kind of announcement about a name change/pronouns but it appears they are sensible about letting this young girl do what she wants in terms of appearance and activities without forcing anything else on her. I think she’s probably gay, but from a social aspect it seems like she has normal friendships with her classmates and no one really thinks twice about it.

  15. Anon[376] • Disclaimer says:

    When I was younger I used to be attracted to “gamine” young women, like some of Audrey Hepburn’s looks, and also to women with strong facial features like the French ye-ye Françoise Hardy. But I’ve noticed that now I’m turned off by any look that “facial feminization” surgery could achieve on a guy, even if I’m sure the person is really female. Also, tall women now turn me off. And petite hands are a turn on.

    • Replies: @mc23
    @Anon

    Was at an 80's dance party recently, a mix of old and young. One conspicuous tranny trying to look respectable but the size of Bruce Jenner. Noticed several younger women who if dressed differently could have passed for guys. Sad to wonder if they were trannies or just mannish looking. Made me think if I was a young man I would certainly be looking for much more feminine features and characteristics then I actually did at the time.

    I dated one tomboy. She was slender, taller than most men and dressed in shapeless clothes could have passed casually as a man. She tried to be feminine at times but it was total fail, painful actually. If she was feminine she would have been a bombshell. She had curves galore, a great body. She liked men but being odd drove them away. I broke down and went out with her. After a while I realized I wasn’t cut out for a life time of makeup sex. I wonder with the current madness how some people would try and categorize her.

    She eventually married and had a very pretty daughter who acted just like her mother.

  16. It’s To Kill a Mockingbird, not “Catch” a Mockingbird.

  17. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:

    Remember when anorexic teenage girls were finding “pro-ana” online subcultures that validated their mental illness, and it was another scary corner of the Internet that parents couldn’t understand or control, and that was Bad?

    But then teenage girls found analogous communities grooming them for transgenderism instead — supportive, affirming safe spaces away from their judgemental, uncomprehending parents — and that is Good.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  18. It’s not tomboys who are having these problems, it’s the mentally ill and confused. Same thing with lesbianism.

    Tomboys just find sports and male activities more appealing. Also the elaborate arts of femininity are too daunting and cumbersome for the active and boisterous girl. Why waste \$ on make up when you’re saving for new hockey skates?

    • Replies: @Jack P
    @stillCARealist

    You're probably right. Tomboy girls now have tons of sports to play and friends to make in those sports. There are a few high level female athletes who now call themselves "non-binary" or "transgender" (there's a "non-binary" on the Canadian women's soccer team), but it's a tiny number overall. Will that change? Who knows. But it's possible that your athletic daughter's teammates form a similar group that can insulate her from suggestions that she's really a boy.

  19. Supposedly another thing that is disappearing are butch lesbians because they are pushed the same direction as tomboys.

  20. Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex? How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    • Replies: @Guest007
    @Henry Canaday

    Do you really think that private schools do not have homosexual students, bisexual students, queer students? If anything the elite college prep private schools probably have more rather than less.

    Replies: @Henry Canaday

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Henry Canaday


    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex?
     
    Who wants to bring up self-mutilation and multiple murder in the confessional? It's easier to avoid it altogether.

    How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?
     
    Likewise, rainbow flags at churches are a Protestant thing. (Reform Jews are essentially Protestants without Jesus. Premessianic Presbyterians.)

    The closest thing to a rainbow church in the large and highly diverse Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis is St Joan of Arc's in the latter city.

    https://www.saintjoanofarc.org/

    (Ever wonder why there is no religious domain suffix analogous to .org, .gov, or .mil?)

    They don't seem to realize-- or, more accurately, care-- that their patroness would have had the lot of them burnt at the stake. Jan Hus was too much for her to take.

    Joan of Arc's Letter to the Hussites

    Could Joan be called a tomboy? (Yet Tom, i.e., Thomas, was a doubter; Joan was anything but.)

    Replies: @Ganderson, @Ed

    , @ex-banker
    @Henry Canaday

    I know a couple (devout Catholic) whose daughter was allowed to change her name/pronoun in a Catholic day prep school behind their back. The school actually ended up introducing the daughter to a family that effectively took her in, so she could have a "safe" space.

    I've also heard rumblings that an all-boys Catholic school in the area has begun admitting FTMs. It's becoming very hard to distance kids from it. Homeschooling seems like the only option going forward.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Arclight
    @Henry Canaday

    From my personal experience it's overwhelmingly a public school thing. It's also trendy for high schoolers to claim they are bisexual when they are not. To some extent I think it's due to public schools being large enough that even though you are deliberately trying to set yourself apart you will still have some level of support because there will be other kids pulling the same thing. In a smaller school doing this will definitely grab attention but in an isolating way.

    Replies: @Ed

  21. Anon[376] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Thomas Edsall a couple of days ago in the NYT:

    In an email, Petrocik described some of the key points:

    The marriage gap far exceeds the gender gap. That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/20/opinion/gender-gap-partisanship-politics.html

    • Thanks: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Anon


    That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.
     
    I wonder if "unmarried women" for this purpose extends to those who are technically married but are de facto estranged because they can't get along with their husband.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @JR Ewing
    @Anon

    The Life of Julia

  22. Amy Wax is one third of the way towards raising a \$300,000 legal defense war chest for use against the current attempt to de-tenure-ize and fire her.

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/amy-wax-legal-defense-fund

  23. @Henry Canaday
    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex? How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    Replies: @Guest007, @Reg Cæsar, @ex-banker, @Arclight

    Do you really think that private schools do not have homosexual students, bisexual students, queer students? If anything the elite college prep private schools probably have more rather than less.

    • Replies: @Henry Canaday
    @Guest007

    I'm sure what you say is true, but these eccentricities are not the same as mutilating yourself. Andrew Sullivan, for example, seems to want to protect the unmutilated gay franchise.

    Replies: @Guest007

  24. anonymous[492] • Disclaimer says:

    The ‘tomboy gf’ [girlfriend] is one of the top male fantasy themes for young men on one of the key driving cultural forums of our time (believe it or not), 4chan /pol/, as below

    It’s clear that the tomboy is seen as a uniquely and traditional *feminine* type … see the last meme comment below where she is described as ‘secretly a sub’, i.e., secretly a submissive in private under the physically-forward tomboy surface

    It’s common to see a wistful note on 4chan of, ‘tfw no tomboy gf’, ‘the feeling when you have no tomboy girlfriend’

  25. My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”. She came from a large German family in Queens– working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was “despite” or “because”, but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Reg Cæsar

    The woman I know who had the most children (I once saw 10 of them in one place--it was 13) was the mother of an old friend of mine. The friend reported her mother didn't really like children very much but she really liked being pregnant.

    Replies: @Sick n' Tired

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ha, Reg, my Mom would not tell me for a while why my Dad didn't want me to get a Tandy leather set. She finally told me that it was because he thought it was a girl's thing. (i.e., that he thought it would make me gay. Who knows?)

    Totally unrelated to much, besides those Tandy leather kits, the next time I saw one was when I was doing surveying work in a State Hospital - mental patients. One patient sold me a leather change holder for a buck. He really didn't do a quality job. However, quality control and even becoming gay were likely the least of the guy's problems.

    Replies: @Truth

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Reg Cæsar


    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”.
     
    Whaa? They seemed pretty military to me when I was a kid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK63c_ve9G4

    I remember the cool ultra-realistic water guns we had as children that came from Europe: Beretta Model 12 SMG, Walther SMG, the Mattel Dick Tracy pump shotgun (Had a built in cap gun and the forearm was the water pump) and the most wonderful of all, an Armalite AR-10 water gun.

    , @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    "This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?"

    Could you please elaborate?

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Ed Case

    , @Veteran Aryan
    @Reg Cæsar


    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”.
     
    Action figures, damn you! ACTION. FIGURES.

    My aunt and uncle once gave us barbie dolls for Christmas just so they could take pictures of our faces when we opened them. Fifty years later, they still like to show me that picture. Later they gave us Johnny West action figures to which we were a lot more receptive.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then. The focus went from armies of men fighting, to dressing up a single man (or a few) with kit items and having them fight each other, rather than setting up entire battles.Boys don't play with toy armies anymore, for the most part.

    I'm not sure what changed, to cause the shift.

    http://www.sierratoysoldier.com/images/newsletter/soldier-header.jpg

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @J.Ross

    , @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    My mother wanted to get me a Cabbage Patch kid but my grandmother wouldn't hear of it. No grandson of hers was going to play with a doll!

    The weird thing is that I already had a bunch of stuffed animals. Judging by old family photos I must have had a hundred of them. So what difference would it have made?

    Incidentally, I never had any G.I. Joe action figures, even though I watched the show religiously.



    https://i.ibb.co/Jtd54sS/1987-1988.jpg

  26. My theory: most of them were just girls who liked sports. They stood out because not as many girls played sports. Today there are many more opportunities for girls’ sports and we don’t think there is anything unusual about an athletic girl.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @prosa123

    Yeah, my girlfriend was one of those girls who liked sports. Swimming and volleyball brought her into contact with predatory lesbians, which she didn't enjoy at all.

    Replies: @Truth, @Barnard, @Jack P

  27. The open encouragement of mental illness is one of the most distressing parts of the Leftist narrative, and I hope that parents decide to make a statement at the voting booth (or mail drop) this fall.

    It’s just terrible to treat children this way, and it’s stressful for parents. Since we’re giving personal examples, my daughter (born in the early ’90’s) preferred legging-style pants over dresses as a little girl, mostly because it gets pretty cold around here for six months out of the year. Pink and mauve didn’t really seem like tomboy colors to me. She also preferred a short ‘bob’ hair style.

    I received one or two coworker comments to the effect that she looked like a boy, which never occurred to me. What people might have said in the current climate I’d rather not think about.

    As soon as she got to public school in kindergarten, and she saw the way other girls wore their hair, the long blonde hair came out.

    My son sometimes played with Barbie dolls, which I’m sure would have triggered today’s Leftists. The fact that he used them because they were just the right size to play ogres attacking his eye-wateringly accurate Playmobil castle wouldn’t have meant anything, I suppose. Beheading was a typical penalty.

  28. @Henry Canaday
    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex? How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    Replies: @Guest007, @Reg Cæsar, @ex-banker, @Arclight

    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex?

    Who wants to bring up self-mutilation and multiple murder in the confessional? It’s easier to avoid it altogether.

    How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    Likewise, rainbow flags at churches are a Protestant thing. (Reform Jews are essentially Protestants without Jesus. Premessianic Presbyterians.)

    The closest thing to a rainbow church in the large and highly diverse Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis is St Joan of Arc’s in the latter city.

    https://www.saintjoanofarc.org/

    (Ever wonder why there is no religious domain suffix analogous to .org, .gov, or .mil?)

    They don’t seem to realize– or, more accurately, care– that their patroness would have had the lot of them burnt at the stake. Jan Hus was too much for her to take.

    Joan of Arc’s Letter to the Hussites

    Could Joan be called a tomboy? (Yet Tom, i.e., Thomas, was a doubter; Joan was anything but.)

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Reg Cæsar

    St. Joan’s been that way for a long time. I took a girl to mass there back in the early 80’s. Can anyone say “ulterior motive”? Didn’t work, though.

    , @Ed
    @Reg Cæsar

    I was a member of a wedding party where the service was conducted at a Protestant church in Bethesda, MD. I forget the denomination, the wedding was in April yet the church was plastered with rainbow flags, pics of church staff attending gay pride marches and other gay pride stuff.

    It’s crazy.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mike_from_SGV

  29. @Jonathan Mason
    Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @PiltdownMan, @DCThrowback, @TelfoedJohn, @Che Guava

    I was about to mention George/Georgina, but you beat me to it.

    Enid Blyton would be doing hard time if she was alive today. She doesn’t seem to have written one book that wouldn’t be offensive to the sensibilities of today’s moral guardians.

    Wikipedia on some of her stories:

    Sambo, the black doll of the title, is hated by his owner and other toys owing to his “ugly black face”, and runs away. A shower of “magic rain” washes his face clean, after which he is welcomed back home with his now pink face. Jamaica Kincaid also considers the Noddy books to be “deeply racist” because of the blonde children and the black golliwogs.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Rob McX

    Yes, I had a collection of golliwog figurines of jazz musicians circa 1960 that I was very proud of, and had no idea that these were insulting to black people, but that is hardly the point.

    The golliwog, with its stereotypically crude features, was a popular childhood toy across Europe and the USA during the 1800s and 1900s. It originated in a children’s story book, The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls, written by American author Florence Kate Upton in 1895.

    In the story, two dolls, Peg and Sara Jane, are let loose in a toy shop where they encounter Golliwog, ‘the blackest gnome’, dressed in red trousers, red bow tie and blue coat. He was visually crude, with a black face, unruly hair, thick lips and wide eyes.

    Golliwog was, in fact, a caricature of the American minstrels; white men who blacked up to perform songs in a manner that was itself a caricature.

    Upton’s book was hugely popular in Britain and she went on to write twelve more stories, in which Golliwog became the main character.

    The golliwog quickly became a staple character in children’s books, gradually transformed from the original ugly but lovable creature of Upton's stories into a stereotypical villain, mean-spirited and devious.

    The golliwog is now probably best remembered in Britain as the brand logo for Robertson’s jams. It first appeared on product labels and advertising material in 1910 and was immediately hugely popular. Robertson’s capitalised on this with marketing campaigns, producing a range of ‘Golly’ badges that were collected in exchange for coupons from their jams and marmalades.

    Around 1990 Robertson's got rid of the golliwog symbols, because activists complained about the dubious racial history of the toy.

    So the connection between white men dressing up as black men in a demeaning manner, and the logos on Robertson's jams, is a pretty thin one, and certainly not one that we children in the 1950s and 60s were in any sense aware of.

    Nor was Enid Blyton, I am sure, and I don't think she ever traveled to America. However Mr Robertson of jam and marmalade fame did get his idea of the golliwog symbol after a trip to the US.

    During the 1950s and '60s, they were very few black people in England, in spite of the arrival of some people from the West Indies to work in the London underground railway and on the buses.

    Most people's first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire. For example my (white) parents met in Nigeria, and during the 1950s my father was offered, but did not take up, a sales job in Jamaica.

    So at the time, the golliwog was something that was associated much more with Robertson's jam then with black people. It must have done a lot for jam sales in the days before TV advertising, because the jams were very popular, but there was nothing special about them except that you could collect the paper gollies tucked under the label and then mail them in to exchange for enamel badges and jazz musicians, which kept children enthusiastically consuming jam.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Carol, @Anonymous

    , @jsm
    @Rob McX

    Sambo is a little Indian boy.

    There are no tigers in Africa.

  30. @prosa123
    My theory: most of them were just girls who liked sports. They stood out because not as many girls played sports. Today there are many more opportunities for girls' sports and we don't think there is anything unusual about an athletic girl.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Yeah, my girlfriend was one of those girls who liked sports. Swimming and volleyball brought her into contact with predatory lesbians, which she didn’t enjoy at all.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Brutusale

    Speaking of that Brutey, I'm a little disappointed with you. You're really going to have to start picking better boyfriends for her...

    https://www.foxnews.com/sports/giants-gabe-kapler-resumes-protest-anthem-memorial-day-report

    , @Barnard
    @Brutusale

    Former WNBA player Candice Wiggins was essentially bullied out of the WNBA for being straight. When she talked about it, there was a backlash in an attempt to get her to back down.

    https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736405/candice-wiggins-calls-wnba-culture-harmful-says-was-bullied

    , @Jack P
    @Brutusale

    Those aren't even sports known for having lots of lesbians. As a parent you'd think swimming and volleyball are pretty wholesome.

  31. Battle of the Network Tomboys: Judy Norton-Taylor vs. Kristy McNichol

    • Thanks: SOL
  32. @Jonathan Mason
    Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @PiltdownMan, @DCThrowback, @TelfoedJohn, @Che Guava

    … but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    Around age 10, I inherited a bunch of those books from a cousin who had lived in the UK when he was a bit younger and was going off to college. I spent a happy year or so devouring English children’s literature, Enid Blyton, the Biggles series, and all the rest. George wasn’t the only tomboy character Enid Blyton wrote into her books, there was one called Bill in her Malory Towers girls boarding school series. There may have been others.

    I was curious and looked it up, and alas, it looks like that over in the UK, they’ve been noticed already in recent years and written off as repressed gender identity cases—who would have been better off in the modern era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2017/apr/03/the-literary-tomboy-enid-blyton-shakespeare

    The tomboy, as an idea, has slipped out of use as research and discourse around gender has progressed; as a term, it is too vague and limited. There are numerous reasons why someone assigned female at birth would not adhere to conservative gender roles. The idea of a tomboy fails to take into account the more contemporary idea of gender as a spectrum rather than a rigid binary. It also fails to acknowledge that for some, presenting as masculine is a fashion choice or a phase while for others it is the expression of their gender identity.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7182793/New-stage-Enid-Blyton-classic-features-transgender-character.html

    A stage production of Enid Blyton’s Malory Towers is to feature a nonbinary actor because producers believe a character in the classic books may be transgender.

    Blyton’s children’s series Malory Towers, written and published between 1946 and 1951, is set at a boarding school for girls in Cornwall.

    But Emma Rice, the woman behind a new stage version of the books, says the ‘tomboy’ character Bill may have been transgender, so is casting nonbinary actor Vinnie Heaven in the part.

    PS: Back in the day, the illustrators understood that a tomboy wasn’t a boy, and were quite skilled in how they drew the character.

  33. @Jonathan Mason
    Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @PiltdownMan, @DCThrowback, @TelfoedJohn, @Che Guava

    George Fayne in the Nancy Drew mystery series played the same role; the athletic tomboy.

    https://nancydrew.fandom.com/wiki/George_Fayne

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  34. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    This is a good observation, but while they are clearly two different processes, they are connected under a political umbrella. Steve wrote about gay-lesbian differences years ago (in National Review, no less, when that magazine was worth something), and it’s true gay men and lesbians don’t have much in common, but the political drivers of Revolution use both. Similarly, the ex-men are not much up for psychology, but they benefit from spearheading a coalition that includes millions of sad girls fearful of puberty and joined with the aforesaid homo lobby.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @John Milton’s Ghost

    and it’s true gay men and lesbians don’t have much in common

    See Yale Kramer: the psychodynamics are quite different. They're alike in wishing to challenge and undermine the common life. (I've never noticed in meat space misogyny on the part of male homosexuals or misandry on the part of lesbians).

  35. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @DCThrowback

    Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  36. Peppermint Pattys

    There was another Patty in the strip who was unceremoniously dumped because Schulz wanted to get the new character’s name before anyone else did.


    Her last name is Reichert, and she lived next door to Schroeder. A German neighborhood!

    The first Patty wasn’t quite as girly as Sally, but way more so than Lucy or Violet. (Violet was kind of a toned-down, less abusive version of Lucy. She didn’t last long, either, but unlike Patty, occasionally showed up later.)

    The second Patty is the only one with a name longer– and clumsier– than “Charlie Brown”. (She calls him “Chuck”, and Marcie calls her “sir”, so name length is an underlying issue in the strip.) It would be just Charlie Brown’s luck that the only two girls who find him attractive live on the other side of the city. Familiarity breeds contempt.

    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    The character wasn't dumped, she just faded away. Her chum was Violet. Violet was snobbish, which Lucy was not. She lacked Lucy's alpha characteristics. Both characters antedated Lucy, who was based on Mrs. Schulz. They never entirely disappeared.


    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    He wasn't because they didn't and they weren't written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.
    See, for example, this

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080461/

    A cinema feature during which Marcie and Peppermint Patty are competing for the same boy (the running gag being that PP never realizes it's Marcie and only Marcie in which he takes an interest).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @VivaLaMigra

    , @Truth
    @Reg Cæsar


    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?
     
    That's...kind of... The whole point, Old Sport.
  37. @Rob McX
    @Jonathan Mason

    I was about to mention George/Georgina, but you beat me to it.

    Enid Blyton would be doing hard time if she was alive today. She doesn't seem to have written one book that wouldn't be offensive to the sensibilities of today's moral guardians.

    Wikipedia on some of her stories:


    Sambo, the black doll of the title, is hated by his owner and other toys owing to his "ugly black face", and runs away. A shower of "magic rain" washes his face clean, after which he is welcomed back home with his now pink face. Jamaica Kincaid also considers the Noddy books to be "deeply racist" because of the blonde children and the black golliwogs.
     

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @jsm

    Yes, I had a collection of golliwog figurines of jazz musicians circa 1960 that I was very proud of, and had no idea that these were insulting to black people, but that is hardly the point.

    The golliwog, with its stereotypically crude features, was a popular childhood toy across Europe and the USA during the 1800s and 1900s. It originated in a children’s story book, The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls, written by American author Florence Kate Upton in 1895.

    In the story, two dolls, Peg and Sara Jane, are let loose in a toy shop where they encounter Golliwog, ‘the blackest gnome’, dressed in red trousers, red bow tie and blue coat. He was visually crude, with a black face, unruly hair, thick lips and wide eyes.

    Golliwog was, in fact, a caricature of the American minstrels; white men who blacked up to perform songs in a manner that was itself a caricature.

    Upton’s book was hugely popular in Britain and she went on to write twelve more stories, in which Golliwog became the main character.

    The golliwog quickly became a staple character in children’s books, gradually transformed from the original ugly but lovable creature of Upton’s stories into a stereotypical villain, mean-spirited and devious.

    The golliwog is now probably best remembered in Britain as the brand logo for Robertson’s jams. It first appeared on product labels and advertising material in 1910 and was immediately hugely popular. Robertson’s capitalised on this with marketing campaigns, producing a range of ‘Golly’ badges that were collected in exchange for coupons from their jams and marmalades.

    Around 1990 Robertson’s got rid of the golliwog symbols, because activists complained about the dubious racial history of the toy.

    So the connection between white men dressing up as black men in a demeaning manner, and the logos on Robertson’s jams, is a pretty thin one, and certainly not one that we children in the 1950s and 60s were in any sense aware of.

    Nor was Enid Blyton, I am sure, and I don’t think she ever traveled to America. However Mr Robertson of jam and marmalade fame did get his idea of the golliwog symbol after a trip to the US.

    During the 1950s and ’60s, they were very few black people in England, in spite of the arrival of some people from the West Indies to work in the London underground railway and on the buses.

    Most people’s first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire. For example my (white) parents met in Nigeria, and during the 1950s my father was offered, but did not take up, a sales job in Jamaica.

    So at the time, the golliwog was something that was associated much more with Robertson’s jam then with black people. It must have done a lot for jam sales in the days before TV advertising, because the jams were very popular, but there was nothing special about them except that you could collect the paper gollies tucked under the label and then mail them in to exchange for enamel badges and jazz musicians, which kept children enthusiastically consuming jam.

    • Thanks: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Over time (like Aunt Jemima in the US) the Robertson's golliwog became more stylized and less explicitly racist.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZED5ZWsAARw_n?format=jpg&name=small

    He's literally black and his "Afro" hair has been reduced to a few small bumps so it's hard to think of him as anything but a cartoon character. But still not good enough for current sensibilities.

    At least the golly was just a mascot. In the case of Aunt Jemima it was the name of the product. The products (pancake mix and syrup) are now called "Pearl Milling Company" and instead of a picture of Aunt Jemima (who in recent years looked kind of like a black lady business executive instead of a cook anyway) there is a picture of a old brick mill. Yeah, nothing like a picture of a building to inspire brand loyalty and identification. Discarding your 130 year old trademark is a GREAT idea. Maybe Coca-Cola could change its name to Atlanta Bottling Company - that would be an equally good idea.

    Replies: @JackOH

    , @Carol
    @Jonathan Mason

    Oh dear, "Golliwogs" was the original name of Creedence Clearwater when they were gigging in NorCal.

    Fogerty was really into the Negrophilia, wasn't he.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason


    Most people’s first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire.
     
    Many Brit’s still secretly love their golliwogs.

    They are cute little guys…

    https://youtu.be/s2pniymmkpg
  38. @Rob McX
    @Jonathan Mason

    I was about to mention George/Georgina, but you beat me to it.

    Enid Blyton would be doing hard time if she was alive today. She doesn't seem to have written one book that wouldn't be offensive to the sensibilities of today's moral guardians.

    Wikipedia on some of her stories:


    Sambo, the black doll of the title, is hated by his owner and other toys owing to his "ugly black face", and runs away. A shower of "magic rain" washes his face clean, after which he is welcomed back home with his now pink face. Jamaica Kincaid also considers the Noddy books to be "deeply racist" because of the blonde children and the black golliwogs.
     

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @jsm

    Sambo is a little Indian boy.

    There are no tigers in Africa.

  39. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    The nature of sexual fetishes is such that, if autogynephilia is psychologically related to fetishism (as seems likely), it is unlikely to be driving the current transgender craze.

    The high-achieving men like Steve’s MBA classmate may be pushing society to accept transgendering, but not pushing girls to be transgender.

    From various “third sex” cultural institutions around the world, I think we can conclude that some small rate of cross-gender identification is normal and related to organic psychological deviations distinct from homosexuality.

    The current transgender phenomenon seems to me to be not one thing but overlapping and reinforcing trends:

    [MORE]

    (1) A small cadre of Bruce Jenner types who actively try to change society through activism and law and draw attention to transgenderism through their fame.
    (2) A small number of authentic from-youth cross-gender-identifying individuals who have been receiving a lot attention relative to their tiny demographic and whose existence is used to defend perverse manipulative aspects of the current craze.
    (3) A group of deviants with sexual fetishes who now self-identify as transgender in order to justify their kinks. To me these are distinct from Bruce Jenner types as Bruce Jenner decided to live entirely as a woman, while some “transgenders” seem to be little more than transvestites. I met a guy once who inexplicably had gotten breast implants even though he was still sporting a thick manly beard and basically wore men’s clothes–obviously not in the same category as Bruce Jenner.

    The movement then perpetuates itself through media exposure and dissembling by psychologists, political ideologues, and activists, and creates influence on young people, leading to…

    (4) Young homosexuals who are led to confuse their sexual preferences for gender identity.
    (5) Young people with weak personalities and atypical interests who are pressured to question their gender identity. These are your used-to-be-tomboys.
    (6) Young people whose brains have been hacked by the Internet and ubiquity of screens and images, and also especially of exposure to images of ourselves, which is somewhat novel in evolutionary time. From primates and non-sexual aspects of human behavior, I think we can conclude that humans–especially males–have a built-in mechanism to be aroused by others’ arousal. Pornography doesn’t simply operate at the level of “image of female nudity leads to sexual arousal.” A lot of modern pornography focuses on images of male arousal and male genitalia and seeing women manipulating them. Somehow, this is not a turn-off, although logically you would think it would be a turn-off to witness women “choosing” other males “rather than” the viewer–in a sense being cuckolded by the actress. I think this counter-intuitive aspect of porn must be related to (a) the fact that human females’ fertility cycles are relatively hidden compared to other mammals, and (b) the human ability to develop a theory of mind, which allows us to mentally inhabit scenes that we see instead of just experiencing them as pure viewers. It’s my contention that some young people get overwhelmed by the constant stream of images and over-stimulation/over-use of “theory of mind” mechanisms such that the distinctions between desiring and being desired, for example, or between analyzing others’ facial attractiveness or masculinity/femininity and analyzing our own start to be broken down, leading to confusion about gender.
    (7) People with small minds who suffer the hobgoblin of consistency. As Eric Kauffman has recently shown, LGBTQ self-identity has been increasing, although probably as a form of social signaling. However, if you identify as “queer” for social reasons, it might prompt you to consider whether your gender is accurate.

  40. @DCThrowback
    @Jack D

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2020/11/26/review-of-the-transgender-industrial-complex-by-scott-howard/

    Replies: @Jack D

    Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.“

    He’s just following your lead. After all, you relish pointing out the “inherent flaws” of your fellow citizens, the blacks. Maybe it’s time for you to do some soul searching?

    Replies: @Jack D

  41. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    The autogyns are the high energy, high income, high-IQ leaders of the movement. They zero in and destroy anyone who publicly oppose trannymania.

    I agree the actual tranny-grooming is done by nutty leftist women in “helping professions” who are more numerous and actually in charge of children, unlike the engineer-economist-programmer-military autogyn type.

    • Agree: Kylie
  42. @Reg Cæsar

    Peppermint Pattys
     
    There was another Patty in the strip who was unceremoniously dumped because Schulz wanted to get the new character's name before anyone else did.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Patty_in_a_red_dress.jpg

    Her last name is Reichert, and she lived next door to Schroeder. A German neighborhood!

    The first Patty wasn't quite as girly as Sally, but way more so than Lucy or Violet. (Violet was kind of a toned-down, less abusive version of Lucy. She didn't last long, either, but unlike Patty, occasionally showed up later.)

    The second Patty is the only one with a name longer-- and clumsier-- than "Charlie Brown". (She calls him "Chuck", and Marcie calls her "sir", so name length is an underlying issue in the strip.) It would be just Charlie Brown's luck that the only two girls who find him attractive live on the other side of the city. Familiarity breeds contempt.

    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Truth

    The character wasn’t dumped, she just faded away. Her chum was Violet. Violet was snobbish, which Lucy was not. She lacked Lucy’s alpha characteristics. Both characters antedated Lucy, who was based on Mrs. Schulz. They never entirely disappeared.

    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    He wasn’t because they didn’t and they weren’t written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.
    See, for example, this

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080461/

    A cinema feature during which Marcie and Peppermint Patty are competing for the same boy (the running gag being that PP never realizes it’s Marcie and only Marcie in which he takes an interest).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco


    He wasn’t because they didn’t and they weren’t written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.
     
    Granted, but the "sir" business was still creepy, and unnecessary. Someone should have pointed it out.

    Gay is misremembered as meaning "happy", when it was really more of "happy-go-lucky", a hybrid of "happy" and "silly". It was this combination that probably inspired the Parisians to give the term its present usage.

    Note that it's only in the most "homophobic" cultures that male friends feel free to hold hands in public.
    , @VivaLaMigra
    @Art Deco


    (the running gag being that PP never realizes it’s Marcie and only Marcie in which [sic] he takes an interest).
     
    It would be "...in whom he takes an interest...." Are you a "which" or a who/whom? If you're a human being rather than an animal or an inanimate object, you're entitled to the latter pair of nominative and objective relative pronouns. If you're using "which" simply because you don't know the difference between "who" and "whom" then shame on you. There is just as much of a difference between "who" and "whom" as between "he" and "him" or "she" and "her."
  43. @Jack D
    @DCThrowback

    Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.“

    He’s just following your lead. After all, you relish pointing out the “inherent flaws” of your fellow citizens, the blacks. Maybe it’s time for you to do some soul searching?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    You omitted to reverentially capitalize Blacks. This will be noted in your dossier, Comrade.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  44. @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    The character wasn't dumped, she just faded away. Her chum was Violet. Violet was snobbish, which Lucy was not. She lacked Lucy's alpha characteristics. Both characters antedated Lucy, who was based on Mrs. Schulz. They never entirely disappeared.


    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    He wasn't because they didn't and they weren't written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.
    See, for example, this

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080461/

    A cinema feature during which Marcie and Peppermint Patty are competing for the same boy (the running gag being that PP never realizes it's Marcie and only Marcie in which he takes an interest).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @VivaLaMigra

    He wasn’t because they didn’t and they weren’t written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.

    Granted, but the “sir” business was still creepy, and unnecessary. Someone should have pointed it out.

    Gay is misremembered as meaning “happy”, when it was really more of “happy-go-lucky”, a hybrid of “happy” and “silly”. It was this combination that probably inspired the Parisians to give the term its present usage.

    Note that it’s only in the most “homophobic” cultures that male friends feel free to hold hands in public.

  45. @Jonathan Mason
    @Rob McX

    Yes, I had a collection of golliwog figurines of jazz musicians circa 1960 that I was very proud of, and had no idea that these were insulting to black people, but that is hardly the point.

    The golliwog, with its stereotypically crude features, was a popular childhood toy across Europe and the USA during the 1800s and 1900s. It originated in a children’s story book, The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls, written by American author Florence Kate Upton in 1895.

    In the story, two dolls, Peg and Sara Jane, are let loose in a toy shop where they encounter Golliwog, ‘the blackest gnome’, dressed in red trousers, red bow tie and blue coat. He was visually crude, with a black face, unruly hair, thick lips and wide eyes.

    Golliwog was, in fact, a caricature of the American minstrels; white men who blacked up to perform songs in a manner that was itself a caricature.

    Upton’s book was hugely popular in Britain and she went on to write twelve more stories, in which Golliwog became the main character.

    The golliwog quickly became a staple character in children’s books, gradually transformed from the original ugly but lovable creature of Upton's stories into a stereotypical villain, mean-spirited and devious.

    The golliwog is now probably best remembered in Britain as the brand logo for Robertson’s jams. It first appeared on product labels and advertising material in 1910 and was immediately hugely popular. Robertson’s capitalised on this with marketing campaigns, producing a range of ‘Golly’ badges that were collected in exchange for coupons from their jams and marmalades.

    Around 1990 Robertson's got rid of the golliwog symbols, because activists complained about the dubious racial history of the toy.

    So the connection between white men dressing up as black men in a demeaning manner, and the logos on Robertson's jams, is a pretty thin one, and certainly not one that we children in the 1950s and 60s were in any sense aware of.

    Nor was Enid Blyton, I am sure, and I don't think she ever traveled to America. However Mr Robertson of jam and marmalade fame did get his idea of the golliwog symbol after a trip to the US.

    During the 1950s and '60s, they were very few black people in England, in spite of the arrival of some people from the West Indies to work in the London underground railway and on the buses.

    Most people's first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire. For example my (white) parents met in Nigeria, and during the 1950s my father was offered, but did not take up, a sales job in Jamaica.

    So at the time, the golliwog was something that was associated much more with Robertson's jam then with black people. It must have done a lot for jam sales in the days before TV advertising, because the jams were very popular, but there was nothing special about them except that you could collect the paper gollies tucked under the label and then mail them in to exchange for enamel badges and jazz musicians, which kept children enthusiastically consuming jam.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Carol, @Anonymous

    Over time (like Aunt Jemima in the US) the Robertson’s golliwog became more stylized and less explicitly racist.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZED5ZWsAARw_n?format=jpg&name=small

    He’s literally black and his “Afro” hair has been reduced to a few small bumps so it’s hard to think of him as anything but a cartoon character. But still not good enough for current sensibilities.

    At least the golly was just a mascot. In the case of Aunt Jemima it was the name of the product. The products (pancake mix and syrup) are now called “Pearl Milling Company” and instead of a picture of Aunt Jemima (who in recent years looked kind of like a black lady business executive instead of a cook anyway) there is a picture of a old brick mill. Yeah, nothing like a picture of a building to inspire brand loyalty and identification. Discarding your 130 year old trademark is a GREAT idea. Maybe Coca-Cola could change its name to Atlanta Bottling Company – that would be an equally good idea.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @Jack D

    Jack D, you're being sarcastic, right?

    I'm missing something for sure. The Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians. Huh? I didn't see any offense either intended or implied in using Aunt Jemima or that Cream of Wheat guy as product identifiers. I'm not seeing Americans of Greek and Turkish ancestry getting worked up about Spartans and Trojans as mascots and team names. Should they be?

    What are we supposed to do about suburban developments named Chippewa Trail, Navajo Run, Mahoning Acres? Serious.

    Replies: @Jack D

  46. Gender cultists actively mock people who bring up tomboys, which they claim is a “red herring.”

    As fas as I can tell, their official position on tomboys is either

    A) Girls who like boy stuff and girls who are really boys on the inside are two entirely separate phenomena which can be easily distinguished, and only hate-filled bigots pretend to get them confused; or

    B) Tomboys never existed — all those so-called tomboys of the past were actually trans. Pumping them full of hormones and cutting off their breasts would have allowed them to live full lives that were tragically denied to them. (That would have been news to my mom, who bragged about being a tomboy as a kid but went on to become a normal, well-adjusted woman.)

  47. Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. “Pass the damn ham, Ma’am.” Haha! I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    Regarding tomboys, I have known a few. There is one I know well, a tomboy of the Peppermint Patty style in her youth but still pretty then, who is very nice woman. I’ve really thought she leans lesbian at times, but all I got is her attendance and photography of women’s BBBall. She never got married.

    This kind of behavior before puberty should be nothing to worry about. It might very well indicate that she will become a much more agreeable wife than those early-on girly-girls. After puberty, well, parents better be very careful to not let her do something drastic and stupid.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?


    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Barnard, @Marat

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed E. Newman wrote:


    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. “Pass the damn ham, Ma’am.” Haha! I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.
     
    Harper Lee was a libertarian conservative.

    Read Go Set a Watchman, which was the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird. Lee makes clear that she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government, and that coercive government action in general would not solve the problem. GSAW also paints a pretty unflattering picture of Blacks: Lee clearly thinks the problems are partly the fault of Blacks themselves.

    ** SPOILER ALERT **

    There are three main, symapthetic characters in GSAW who express political views: Jean Louise ("Scout") who is clearly a stand-in for the author, Scout's Uncle Jack, and, of course, Atticus Finch.

    The supposed conflict in GSAW hinges on Atticus allowing a blatant racist to speak at a meeting of the local Citizens Council (for those too young to have lived through the times, the Citizens Councils were local groups that opposed forced integration of the South).

    But in the resolution, Atticus explains that even jerks are entitled to freedom of speech.

    I'm not just inferring Lee's political views. She gives both Atticus and Uncle Jack dialogue in which they lay out their Jeffersonian/states-rights/limited-government views.

    And Scout herself states very clearly that she disapproves of the Supreme Court decision (presumably Brown vs. the Board) forcing the South to integrate.

    I.e., the three main characters who express political views in the novel are all libertarian conservatives.

    It's not hard to see why Lee was pushed to re-write GSAW to produce TKAM: GSAW would not have played well in either North or South -- too balanced for either rabid racists or forced integrationists.

    And TKAM is indeed a more readable book, though, arguably, less serious.

    There are also points where GSAW is a bit ham-handed in laying out the author's political views: for example, Scout pretends to have trouble grasping Atticus' political views, even though they are essentially her own (and, of course, Harper Lee's).

    In the end, Scout (and presumably Lee) does want the South to move faster to deal with race than Atticus thinks is feasible. But Atticus' view is treated as a reasonable concern.

    And Uncle Jack credibly presents the view that the race issue is putting stresses on the American Republic that the Republic cannot survive.

    In short, Go Set a Watchman is a pretty good book, while a bit didactic in overtly pushing a conservative-libertarian viewpoint.

    Why did most of the reviews focus on the issue of Atticus supposedly being a racist? Because the reviewers really, truly cannot read, rather like those who think that Huckleberry Finn is a racist novel (hint to idiots: the only sane person in Huck Finn is the slave Jim -- maybe that says something?).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SFG

  48. @Brutusale
    @prosa123

    Yeah, my girlfriend was one of those girls who liked sports. Swimming and volleyball brought her into contact with predatory lesbians, which she didn't enjoy at all.

    Replies: @Truth, @Barnard, @Jack P

    Speaking of that Brutey, I’m a little disappointed with you. You’re really going to have to start picking better boyfriends for her…

    https://www.foxnews.com/sports/giants-gabe-kapler-resumes-protest-anthem-memorial-day-report

  49. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    The woman I know who had the most children (I once saw 10 of them in one place–it was 13) was the mother of an old friend of mine. The friend reported her mother didn’t really like children very much but she really liked being pregnant.

    • Replies: @Sick n' Tired
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    My family knew a lady like that, she wasn't a very good mother to the kids she popped out, but liked being pregnant. She used it as an excuse to not have to do much of anything.

  50. @Reg Cæsar

    Peppermint Pattys
     
    There was another Patty in the strip who was unceremoniously dumped because Schulz wanted to get the new character's name before anyone else did.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Patty_in_a_red_dress.jpg

    Her last name is Reichert, and she lived next door to Schroeder. A German neighborhood!

    The first Patty wasn't quite as girly as Sally, but way more so than Lucy or Violet. (Violet was kind of a toned-down, less abusive version of Lucy. She didn't last long, either, but unlike Patty, occasionally showed up later.)

    The second Patty is the only one with a name longer-- and clumsier-- than "Charlie Brown". (She calls him "Chuck", and Marcie calls her "sir", so name length is an underlying issue in the strip.) It would be just Charlie Brown's luck that the only two girls who find him attractive live on the other side of the city. Familiarity breeds contempt.

    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Truth

    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    That’s…kind of… The whole point, Old Sport.

  51. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “Always good to throw in a few gratuitous anti-Semitic references. A really good way to get taken seriously by mainstream readers.“

    He’s just following your lead. After all, you relish pointing out the “inherent flaws” of your fellow citizens, the blacks. Maybe it’s time for you to do some soul searching?

    Replies: @Jack D

    You omitted to reverentially capitalize Blacks. This will be noted in your dossier, Comrade.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    I see you are now working for Mossad.

  52. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    Ha, Reg, my Mom would not tell me for a while why my Dad didn’t want me to get a Tandy leather set. She finally told me that it was because he thought it was a girl’s thing. (i.e., that he thought it would make me gay. Who knows?)

    Totally unrelated to much, besides those Tandy leather kits, the next time I saw one was when I was doing surveying work in a State Hospital – mental patients. One patient sold me a leather change holder for a buck. He really didn’t do a quality job. However, quality control and even becoming gay were likely the least of the guy’s problems.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If he's still alive, please give him a hearty hug and a kiss on the cheek, and thank him for saving you...

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e3/4c/50/e34c5093b5d17c7fd5f61fdac9e43c5c.jpg

  53. @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    You omitted to reverentially capitalize Blacks. This will be noted in your dossier, Comrade.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    I see you are now working for Mossad.

  54. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ha, Reg, my Mom would not tell me for a while why my Dad didn't want me to get a Tandy leather set. She finally told me that it was because he thought it was a girl's thing. (i.e., that he thought it would make me gay. Who knows?)

    Totally unrelated to much, besides those Tandy leather kits, the next time I saw one was when I was doing surveying work in a State Hospital - mental patients. One patient sold me a leather change holder for a buck. He really didn't do a quality job. However, quality control and even becoming gay were likely the least of the guy's problems.

    Replies: @Truth

    If he’s still alive, please give him a hearty hug and a kiss on the cheek, and thank him for saving you…

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  55. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Over time (like Aunt Jemima in the US) the Robertson's golliwog became more stylized and less explicitly racist.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZED5ZWsAARw_n?format=jpg&name=small

    He's literally black and his "Afro" hair has been reduced to a few small bumps so it's hard to think of him as anything but a cartoon character. But still not good enough for current sensibilities.

    At least the golly was just a mascot. In the case of Aunt Jemima it was the name of the product. The products (pancake mix and syrup) are now called "Pearl Milling Company" and instead of a picture of Aunt Jemima (who in recent years looked kind of like a black lady business executive instead of a cook anyway) there is a picture of a old brick mill. Yeah, nothing like a picture of a building to inspire brand loyalty and identification. Discarding your 130 year old trademark is a GREAT idea. Maybe Coca-Cola could change its name to Atlanta Bottling Company - that would be an equally good idea.

    Replies: @JackOH

    Jack D, you’re being sarcastic, right?

    I’m missing something for sure. The Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians. Huh? I didn’t see any offense either intended or implied in using Aunt Jemima or that Cream of Wheat guy as product identifiers. I’m not seeing Americans of Greek and Turkish ancestry getting worked up about Spartans and Trojans as mascots and team names. Should they be?

    What are we supposed to do about suburban developments named Chippewa Trail, Navajo Run, Mahoning Acres? Serious.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @JackOH

    Sorry I forgot the sarc tag.

    I really don't know what to do with Indian place names. OTOH you are supposed to say "We are living on the unceded territory of the Lenni Lenape tribe" or something every time you open a meeting but OTOH you are not allowed to have sports teams named after Indians. I'm still trying to figure out why "colored people" is bad but "people of color" is good. Maybe you need to be a real Native American in order to understand this. Maybe you could write to Liz Warren and ask her to explain it. Address to her in "City of Football Team".

  56. @Jonathan Mason
    @Rob McX

    Yes, I had a collection of golliwog figurines of jazz musicians circa 1960 that I was very proud of, and had no idea that these were insulting to black people, but that is hardly the point.

    The golliwog, with its stereotypically crude features, was a popular childhood toy across Europe and the USA during the 1800s and 1900s. It originated in a children’s story book, The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls, written by American author Florence Kate Upton in 1895.

    In the story, two dolls, Peg and Sara Jane, are let loose in a toy shop where they encounter Golliwog, ‘the blackest gnome’, dressed in red trousers, red bow tie and blue coat. He was visually crude, with a black face, unruly hair, thick lips and wide eyes.

    Golliwog was, in fact, a caricature of the American minstrels; white men who blacked up to perform songs in a manner that was itself a caricature.

    Upton’s book was hugely popular in Britain and she went on to write twelve more stories, in which Golliwog became the main character.

    The golliwog quickly became a staple character in children’s books, gradually transformed from the original ugly but lovable creature of Upton's stories into a stereotypical villain, mean-spirited and devious.

    The golliwog is now probably best remembered in Britain as the brand logo for Robertson’s jams. It first appeared on product labels and advertising material in 1910 and was immediately hugely popular. Robertson’s capitalised on this with marketing campaigns, producing a range of ‘Golly’ badges that were collected in exchange for coupons from their jams and marmalades.

    Around 1990 Robertson's got rid of the golliwog symbols, because activists complained about the dubious racial history of the toy.

    So the connection between white men dressing up as black men in a demeaning manner, and the logos on Robertson's jams, is a pretty thin one, and certainly not one that we children in the 1950s and 60s were in any sense aware of.

    Nor was Enid Blyton, I am sure, and I don't think she ever traveled to America. However Mr Robertson of jam and marmalade fame did get his idea of the golliwog symbol after a trip to the US.

    During the 1950s and '60s, they were very few black people in England, in spite of the arrival of some people from the West Indies to work in the London underground railway and on the buses.

    Most people's first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire. For example my (white) parents met in Nigeria, and during the 1950s my father was offered, but did not take up, a sales job in Jamaica.

    So at the time, the golliwog was something that was associated much more with Robertson's jam then with black people. It must have done a lot for jam sales in the days before TV advertising, because the jams were very popular, but there was nothing special about them except that you could collect the paper gollies tucked under the label and then mail them in to exchange for enamel badges and jazz musicians, which kept children enthusiastically consuming jam.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Carol, @Anonymous

    Oh dear, “Golliwogs” was the original name of Creedence Clearwater when they were gigging in NorCal.

    Fogerty was really into the Negrophilia, wasn’t he.

  57. @Henry Canaday
    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex? How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    Replies: @Guest007, @Reg Cæsar, @ex-banker, @Arclight

    I know a couple (devout Catholic) whose daughter was allowed to change her name/pronoun in a Catholic day prep school behind their back. The school actually ended up introducing the daughter to a family that effectively took her in, so she could have a “safe” space.

    I’ve also heard rumblings that an all-boys Catholic school in the area has begun admitting FTMs. It’s becoming very hard to distance kids from it. Homeschooling seems like the only option going forward.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @ex-banker

    The business model of the Catholic school was to provide education at a modest price through the use of those who did not have dependents and lived communally. The model failed with the demographic collapse of the religious orders. The scale of it in some orders was astonishing. The diocesan priesthood saw a 60% decline in annual ordinations between 1965 and 2000. Ordinations among the religious orders declined by 90%. As for women religious, I had a conversation with a woman in 2001 who told me that the number of women taking their vows each year and entering her order declined by 97%.

    What the dioceses and religious orders did was to turn Catholic schools into schools for the children of the professional-managerial bourgeoisie. The lay teachers are not schooled in matters religious and the parents aren't the sort of people who pay much attention to clergymen. See the catastrophe at Charlottte (NC) Catholic High School in 2014. I knew a devout graduate of Franciscan University of Steubenville who lasted one year as a Catholic schoolteacher. He went to work in a call center after that.

    Homeschool co-operatives may work for some Catholic parents. The Catholic schools are another failed business model.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  58. “We used to have millions of tomboys.”

    Quite the exaggeration, Mr. Sailer. More like hundreds of thousands back in the day. Nonetheless, tomboys in American society are doing quite well, thank you very little.

    http://ladyfashioniser.com/how-to-dress-like-a-tomboy/

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18362758/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/opinion/tomboys-culture.html

    It was an understandable counter to the somewhat limiting message of the earlier tomboy era, which implied that while masculinity was good for boys and girls, femininity was bad for both. But it also edged out a certain kind of acceptable masculinity in young girls, and came with its own confinements — namely the idea that girls could be strong, so long as they were also pretty. Their inherent flaws aside, ideally, both identities should be able to coexist. But having spent the last year writing a book about the history, science and psychology of tomboys, I’m acutely aware of how modern girls who resemble the tomboys of my youth are now underrepresented…But we shouldn’t let the old-school tomboys in pop culture fade away in the process. The pop star Billie Eilish offers a refreshing twist: Through her affinity for oversize hoodies and pants and her confident, offbeat swagger, she provides girls an alternative to the overtly sexualized pop singer. I’d like to see even more of this — the return of Jo and her descendants, alongside the representations of strong, feminine girls and nonbinary and trans people. Girls who claim all the traditional traits of masculinity they want, girls who fix motorcycles or play drums or wear short hair.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/tomboy-is-anachronistic-but-the-concept-still-has-something-to-teach-us/2019/06/28/b295375a-96ae-11e9-8d0a-5edd7e2025b1_story.html

    The term “tomboy” has long sounded alarms among conservative parenting factions for its perceived association with lesbianism and departure from traditional femininity, but it’s come under scrutiny in progressive circles, too, with some critics arguing that it upholds the essentialist notion that anatomy largely determines children’s behaviors and inclinations. The author of a 2017 New York Times essay who wrote that her daughter was more a tomboy than a transboy sparked debate around gender-nonconforming children, and the argument about this trope has also unfolded across Facebook communities and clinical studies .

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/opinion/my-daughter-is-not-transgender-shes-a-tomboy.html

    https://medium.com/@adeyinkaadegbenro/why-girls-become-tomboys-9a8e08daee6b

    Subconsciously, over the years, my identity as a tomboy developed. It didn’t hit the brakes even when I got enrolled in an all-girls boarding school for 5 years. In fact, it made it worse. By then, I had become a full-blown tomboy. I only started to shed the tomboy identity little by little in my third year of university up until now. Currently, depending on who is asked if I am a tomboy. The answer would be one of yes, no and partially. Recently I got curious about my development as a kid and it got me asking myself what made me develop this identity. After doing some research about what triggers it in girls, I found answers I didn’t see coming.

    “But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.””

    You seem prone to exaggeration in this piece, Mr. Sailer. Is it close to rattling the tin cup again?

    • Troll: AKAHorace
  59. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    The Pritzker mutant is a billionaire and has been shoveling money into every trans advocacy program for years.

  60. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    Admiral Levine and General Milley were teammates on their high school football team. One opted to become a woman and the other is a barely-closeted mincing fruit.

    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    That would be Belmont Hill; an all boys prep school. I think the young Romneys went there too.

    Replies: @JimDandy

  61. The Extinction of the Tomboy

    It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”

    From the Twitter feed of the talented Tatsuya Ishida.

    • Thanks: BB753, Veteran Aryan, AKAHorace
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Big Gender. Good phrasing.

    , @Corvinus
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Welcome to the world of strawman.

    , @SFG
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That webcomic apparently started out as a fratboyish New Atheist sex joke comic, went radical feminist in the early 2010s as he felt guilty, and then went anti-trans Christian in 2019. Apparently he annoyed and alienated all his fans with the flip-flops.

    Enjoy it while you can, just don’t be too surprised if he turns into a neocon in 7 years.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @J.Ross
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It's okay, it's not Stonetoss, and if you like your material queer yet trad, GPrime85 says it in about a quarter the panels.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  62. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    Sigh,

    First they came to destroy the Boyscouts and they (Feminists, Homoterm, Js that see the American Boyscouts as looking too much like the Hitler Youth)

    Then they moved on to all male College Fraternities – by definition a “Fraternity” is all male, if it’s Co-Ed it’s not a fraternity.

    Then the lunatics decided they would rule the entire asylum, destroy everything traditional American including Tom Boys.

    Sigh

    Remember the best defense is a good offense.

    I highly recommend reading, studying and putting in to practice Saul Alynsky”s “Rules for Radicals”.

    Make it personal – identify real enemies, traitors and punish them in effective ways, most can be legal.

    Learn to Dox.

    I’ve been doxed and I have doxed.

    It’s better to have doxed and lost than to never have doxed.

    How come nobody has ever got personal with George Soros.

    Victor Orban did – he gave all Soros OGOs out of Hungary.

    J Ryan
    The Political Cesspool

  63. Good thing she came of age in the old world, eh?

  64. @Henry Canaday
    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex? How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?

    Replies: @Guest007, @Reg Cæsar, @ex-banker, @Arclight

    From my personal experience it’s overwhelmingly a public school thing. It’s also trendy for high schoolers to claim they are bisexual when they are not. To some extent I think it’s due to public schools being large enough that even though you are deliberately trying to set yourself apart you will still have some level of support because there will be other kids pulling the same thing. In a smaller school doing this will definitely grab attention but in an isolating way.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Arclight

    There’s a tweet going around this week that cites a study that reveals that although young people that identify as lgbt has soared in the past 20 years. The % of young people that claim to have had participated in same sex acts has remained flat.

  65. @Achmed E. Newman
    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. "Pass the damn ham, Ma'am." Haha! I don't particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    Regarding tomboys, I have known a few. There is one I know well, a tomboy of the Peppermint Patty style in her youth but still pretty then, who is very nice woman. I've really thought she leans lesbian at times, but all I got is her attendance and photography of women's BBBall. She never got married.

    This kind of behavior before puberty should be nothing to worry about. It might very well indicate that she will become a much more agreeable wife than those early-on girly-girls. After puberty, well, parents better be very careful to not let her do something drastic and stupid.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @PhysicistDave

    I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?

    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Art Deco

    Are you under the impression that To Kill a Mockingbird was a documentary? Perhaps the internet let you down, Art. It's a novel!

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it's more likely that that you'd have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it's a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I want to relate this to a book by S. Carolinian writer Robert Conroy named The Prince of Tides, a story that, fictionally (Art), took place in the Low Country only about 25 years* later than To Kill a Mockingbird did in Southern Miss - I recall Hattiesburg. The Conway book was also made into a movie.

    In this case I haven't read the book, but in the movie, the escaped convicts who rape the twin teenage girls and the narrator Tom (Nick Nolte in the movie) are White guys. Now, that's plausible too, but I'd bet my money on black were it a true story. I did not think of it when I saw the movie long ago, but now I can see that making the rapists White guys is going along with an agenda. Does anyone know if they are White or black in the novel? I have had no luck finding out, and NO, Art, wikipedia will not help you on this.

    .

    * Late 1950s to mid 1960s for the part of The Prince of Tides I'm mentioning, as it's the mid 1980s when the narrator is a 30-something y/o up in NY City vs. mid 1930s for To Kill a Mockingbird.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Barnard
    @Art Deco


    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?
     
    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.
     
    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    , @Marat
    @Art Deco

    Agree. And the shadow relationship between the kids and Boo Radley. Scout’s recognition of Boo was by far the most poignant moment of the entire novel, from a child’s POV.

  66. @Jonathan Mason
    Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @PiltdownMan, @DCThrowback, @TelfoedJohn, @Che Guava

    A good modern kids story would be a tomboy and her gang trying to defeat some evil gender doctor trying to mutilate them. Maybe JK Rowling can write it.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_SGV
    @TelfoedJohn

    Or we could use a new genre of anti-woke horror movies. "HR Convention Chainsaw Massacre". "D.I.E."

  67. @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Jack D

    This is a good observation, but while they are clearly two different processes, they are connected under a political umbrella. Steve wrote about gay-lesbian differences years ago (in National Review, no less, when that magazine was worth something), and it’s true gay men and lesbians don’t have much in common, but the political drivers of Revolution use both. Similarly, the ex-men are not much up for psychology, but they benefit from spearheading a coalition that includes millions of sad girls fearful of puberty and joined with the aforesaid homo lobby.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    and it’s true gay men and lesbians don’t have much in common

    See Yale Kramer: the psychodynamics are quite different. They’re alike in wishing to challenge and undermine the common life. (I’ve never noticed in meat space misogyny on the part of male homosexuals or misandry on the part of lesbians).

  68. I asked one of my friends a little while ago whether tomboys are still legal. We’re unsure.

    One of my favorite movies is Always, the no-doubt sappy tale with aerial firefighters Richard Dreyfuss, John Goodman and Holly Hunter. Hunter’s role is classic endearing tomboy, though the trailer pushes the more girly side.

    Critics said meh but that’s their problem

    Always

  69. To the article, remember ‘some people say, is not the same as all people say.’ The MSM has run with these gender ideas, not too much the general public. And the quarterback of the Harvard football team about 12 years back was Ryan Fitzpatrick, who played for at least 10 NFL teams and earned abot 70 million dollars.

  70. Or maybe they’re just trying to sterilize little kids for varied reasons such as climate change hysteria (which is really Bertrand Russell-style depopulation re-branded), self-hatred or just some kind of Munchhausen Syndrome. Notice, also, that white kids seem to be the exclusive targets. Try this shit in the hood and Shaneequa will be waiting for you in the parking lot, with an eye-watering pair of scissors.

  71. @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?


    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Barnard, @Marat

    Are you under the impression that To Kill a Mockingbird was a documentary? Perhaps the internet let you down, Art. It’s a novel!

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it’s more likely that that you’d have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it’s a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I want to relate this to a book by S. Carolinian writer Robert Conroy named The Prince of Tides, a story that, fictionally (Art), took place in the Low Country only about 25 years* later than To Kill a Mockingbird did in Southern Miss – I recall Hattiesburg. The Conway book was also made into a movie.

    In this case I haven’t read the book, but in the movie, the escaped convicts who rape the twin teenage girls and the narrator Tom (Nick Nolte in the movie) are White guys. Now, that’s plausible too, but I’d bet my money on black were it a true story. I did not think of it when I saw the movie long ago, but now I can see that making the rapists White guys is going along with an agenda. Does anyone know if they are White or black in the novel? I have had no luck finding out, and NO, Art, wikipedia will not help you on this.

    .

    * Late 1950s to mid 1960s for the part of The Prince of Tides I’m mentioning, as it’s the mid 1980s when the narrator is a 30-something y/o up in NY City vs. mid 1930s for To Kill a Mockingbird.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it’s more likely that that you’d have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it’s a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I don't know what you fancy her 'agenda' is. She's a lawyer's daughter who presents a miscarriage of justice. I have news for you. Courts can be hit and miss and Southern society was systematically unfair in unsightly ways.

    https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-American-Criminal-Justice/dp/0674051750

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  72. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”.

    Whaa? They seemed pretty military to me when I was a kid.

    I remember the cool ultra-realistic water guns we had as children that came from Europe: Beretta Model 12 SMG, Walther SMG, the Mattel Dick Tracy pump shotgun (Had a built in cap gun and the forearm was the water pump) and the most wonderful of all, an Armalite AR-10 water gun.

  73. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The Extinction of the Tomboy
     

    It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”
     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIETWVsAArgOL.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIGDMVEAAgDWF.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIHi4VIAIZyeC.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBII1UVUAE8pUp.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVGVJXQUEAAa0tM.jpg

    From the Twitter feed of the talented Tatsuya Ishida.

    https://twitter.com/TatsuyaIshida9/status/1535806847050911744

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Corvinus, @SFG, @J.Ross

    Big Gender. Good phrasing.

  74. @Brutusale
    @prosa123

    Yeah, my girlfriend was one of those girls who liked sports. Swimming and volleyball brought her into contact with predatory lesbians, which she didn't enjoy at all.

    Replies: @Truth, @Barnard, @Jack P

    Former WNBA player Candice Wiggins was essentially bullied out of the WNBA for being straight. When she talked about it, there was a backlash in an attempt to get her to back down.

    https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736405/candice-wiggins-calls-wnba-culture-harmful-says-was-bullied

  75. Amazingly, children’s literature used not to mention sex at all.

  76. @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?


    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Barnard, @Marat

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?

    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Barnard

    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    I think your memory is off here. "It's a sin to kill a mockingbird" was something the father said during dinner table conversation, later explained by the across the street neighbor. It was during a discussion of hunting birds. The newspaper editorial said something to the effect that it was wrong to shoot cripples. (The convicted Tom Robinson was shot to death in an escape attempt from a state prison). The subsequent simile ("it would be like killing a mockingbird") was the daughter's answer to her father on the subject of whether or not Boo Radley's dispatch of Robert E. Lee Ewell would be made public. The sheriff had told her father in no uncertain terms that the police report would be falsified to protect Boo Radley's privacy. ("I am still Sheriff of Maycomb County. And Bob Ewell fell on his knife").

    , @Art Deco
    @Barnard

    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    Pretty badly if I understand correctly. Your point is what?

  77. @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?


    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Barnard, @Marat

    Agree. And the shadow relationship between the kids and Boo Radley. Scout’s recognition of Boo was by far the most poignant moment of the entire novel, from a child’s POV.

  78. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Art Deco

    Are you under the impression that To Kill a Mockingbird was a documentary? Perhaps the internet let you down, Art. It's a novel!

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it's more likely that that you'd have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it's a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I want to relate this to a book by S. Carolinian writer Robert Conroy named The Prince of Tides, a story that, fictionally (Art), took place in the Low Country only about 25 years* later than To Kill a Mockingbird did in Southern Miss - I recall Hattiesburg. The Conway book was also made into a movie.

    In this case I haven't read the book, but in the movie, the escaped convicts who rape the twin teenage girls and the narrator Tom (Nick Nolte in the movie) are White guys. Now, that's plausible too, but I'd bet my money on black were it a true story. I did not think of it when I saw the movie long ago, but now I can see that making the rapists White guys is going along with an agenda. Does anyone know if they are White or black in the novel? I have had no luck finding out, and NO, Art, wikipedia will not help you on this.

    .

    * Late 1950s to mid 1960s for the part of The Prince of Tides I'm mentioning, as it's the mid 1980s when the narrator is a 30-something y/o up in NY City vs. mid 1930s for To Kill a Mockingbird.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it’s more likely that that you’d have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it’s a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I don’t know what you fancy her ‘agenda’ is. She’s a lawyer’s daughter who presents a miscarriage of justice. I have news for you. Courts can be hit and miss and Southern society was systematically unfair in unsightly ways.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Art Deco

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable - see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it's more likely that there'd be more to it - hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).

    Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  79. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    “This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?”

    Could you please elaborate?

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @BB753

    It's a handy excuse for not having to put out.

    So, just have sex enough times to get pregnant, then you're off the hook (so to speak) for 9-12 more months until you have to go through the sex act again in another attempt to get pregnant. Rinse and repeat.

    , @Ed Case
    @BB753

    It's about the sensation of giving birth with [some] lesbians.
    They'll have kid after kid, but they won't show them any love.
    Mental problems get passed down to the next generation.

  80. I read the book twenty years ago and didn’t remember that specific storyline. I just checked my copy and briefly thumbed through it. It’s 567 pages long. I came across an attempted rape scene involving young girls and their mom. Three prison escapees try to rape the mom but are thwarted by insects and animals (the book has a strong strain of magic realism.) The escapees are not identified racially.

    To your larger point, yes there is an agenda at play in the work of Conroy and Lee (also that of Capote, Erskine Caldwell, Carson McCullers, etc, etc,–even Faulkner.) These and other Southern writers would not have been groomed/published/publicized by the New York literati otherwise.

  81. OT: Biden Administration is allowing illegals to use their arrest warrants as an ID for boarding aircraft in the US. That is absolutely vile and crazy. These people shouldn’t even be in the country.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tsa-chief-says-1000-illegal-immigrants-allowed-board-planes-warrants-id

  82. our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth.

    “Our” society? This wasn’t a grassroots movement. It’s being pushed on our children by the Awesome Smart Clowns you told us to worship. The same clowns who pushed the damaging Covid lockdowns (the ones you cheerled for like a desperate college girl).

    A big reason for this insanity is that we’ve let high IQ masculine men who like to dress up in women’s lingerie … claim that their fetish is an identity:

    Well that’s what well-behaved yuppies do Steve, they submit, they obey, they don’t cause trouble. You know, the SWPL clowns you worship, the White people have no loyalty to other Whites but somehow want the benefits of living in a White society.

    At least they aren’t déclassé rednecks. They just castrate their children as ordered.

  83. I dunno about “Scout”. She was MORE than just a Tomboy.

  84. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The Extinction of the Tomboy
     

    It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”
     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIETWVsAArgOL.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIGDMVEAAgDWF.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIHi4VIAIZyeC.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBII1UVUAE8pUp.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVGVJXQUEAAa0tM.jpg

    From the Twitter feed of the talented Tatsuya Ishida.

    https://twitter.com/TatsuyaIshida9/status/1535806847050911744

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Corvinus, @SFG, @J.Ross

    Welcome to the world of strawman.

  85. @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    "This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?"

    Could you please elaborate?

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Ed Case

    It’s a handy excuse for not having to put out.

    So, just have sex enough times to get pregnant, then you’re off the hook (so to speak) for 9-12 more months until you have to go through the sex act again in another attempt to get pregnant. Rinse and repeat.

    • Agree: BB753
  86. @Emil Nikola Richard
    We still have women tennis pros but it might not be long before every single one of the top ten is going to be a Russian.

    Replies: @Truth, @Muggles

    A Russian Boy!

  87. Growing up, I was close with a cousin who was very much a tomboy. Today, she’s married, has five kids, and runs her own business. She’s also super woke. I wonder if it ever occurs to her that if she was that same child now, her teachers would be encouraging her to transition. No family of her own, just a mutilated body.

    • Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @Veteran Aryan

    Does this mean wokeness has a genetic component? Meaning, those Whites who flirt with queerness (say girls always trying to outcompete boys) grow up to be liberals.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

  88. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”.

    Action figures, damn you! ACTION. FIGURES.

    My aunt and uncle once gave us barbie dolls for Christmas just so they could take pictures of our faces when we opened them. Fifty years later, they still like to show me that picture. Later they gave us Johnny West action figures to which we were a lot more receptive.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Veteran Aryan

    The first time I heard that "action figures are just dolls" line, I was about 12 years old, I owned all of the GI Joe toys, and I was PISSED. BE GONE SATAN!

    Now I can see that, yeah, they're just dolls for boys, even with the swivel arm grip.

  89. @ex-banker
    @Henry Canaday

    I know a couple (devout Catholic) whose daughter was allowed to change her name/pronoun in a Catholic day prep school behind their back. The school actually ended up introducing the daughter to a family that effectively took her in, so she could have a "safe" space.

    I've also heard rumblings that an all-boys Catholic school in the area has begun admitting FTMs. It's becoming very hard to distance kids from it. Homeschooling seems like the only option going forward.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The business model of the Catholic school was to provide education at a modest price through the use of those who did not have dependents and lived communally. The model failed with the demographic collapse of the religious orders. The scale of it in some orders was astonishing. The diocesan priesthood saw a 60% decline in annual ordinations between 1965 and 2000. Ordinations among the religious orders declined by 90%. As for women religious, I had a conversation with a woman in 2001 who told me that the number of women taking their vows each year and entering her order declined by 97%.

    What the dioceses and religious orders did was to turn Catholic schools into schools for the children of the professional-managerial bourgeoisie. The lay teachers are not schooled in matters religious and the parents aren’t the sort of people who pay much attention to clergymen. See the catastrophe at Charlottte (NC) Catholic High School in 2014. I knew a devout graduate of Franciscan University of Steubenville who lasted one year as a Catholic schoolteacher. He went to work in a call center after that.

    Homeschool co-operatives may work for some Catholic parents. The Catholic schools are another failed business model.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Art Deco


    The business model of the Catholic school was to provide education at a modest price through the use of those who did not have dependents and lived communally. The model failed with the demographic collapse of the religious orders.
    ...

    Homeschool co-operatives may work for some Catholic parents. The Catholic schools are another failed business model.
     
    Good summary Art. I'm skeptical of any sort of "Catholic school" solution. While not the debacle of mainline Protestantism, the Catholics are not really standing athwart the world. And the sort of people who can afford Catholic school now are not diligent in demanding they do so.

    Primary and secondary teachers are generally not the sort of people who bother to think about questions like "how did we get here?", "what is civilization?" and "what is required to reproduce it?" And if they do, their answers tend to be very ho-hum and conformist.

    The only solution I can see is school choice. The school choices right now are insufficient, but if any actual parentally driven market was created, parents would quickly start seeing better options.

    However, as your Charlotte Catholic example shows, even this is insufficient without rolling back at least some of the minoritarian totalitarian--"Civil Rights"--project. Minoritarianism is simply a totalitarian ideology that brooks no dissent. If you can't dissent from its narrative, then all "alternative education" projects are going to fail. (Home schooling only sort of works because they can't "civil rights" their way into your home to boss you around--yet.)
  90. One thing I always wondered about: before the Fall, in the 1950s and earlier, why were tomboys more approved of than sissies? Not all feminine boys were gay.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    @SFG

    There's a stat out there that says a full 25% of sissy boys grow up to become normal heterosexuals. But with trannymania these poor lads are being directed to the scalpel. Now, it's bad enough for a gay to have his private parts chopped off, how much worse must it be for a normal lad to have them severed?

  91. @Barnard
    @Art Deco


    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?
     
    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.
     
    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    I think your memory is off here. “It’s a sin to kill a mockingbird” was something the father said during dinner table conversation, later explained by the across the street neighbor. It was during a discussion of hunting birds. The newspaper editorial said something to the effect that it was wrong to shoot cripples. (The convicted Tom Robinson was shot to death in an escape attempt from a state prison). The subsequent simile (“it would be like killing a mockingbird”) was the daughter’s answer to her father on the subject of whether or not Boo Radley’s dispatch of Robert E. Lee Ewell would be made public. The sheriff had told her father in no uncertain terms that the police report would be falsified to protect Boo Radley’s privacy. (“I am still Sheriff of Maycomb County. And Bob Ewell fell on his knife”).

  92. @Guest007
    @Henry Canaday

    Do you really think that private schools do not have homosexual students, bisexual students, queer students? If anything the elite college prep private schools probably have more rather than less.

    Replies: @Henry Canaday

    I’m sure what you say is true, but these eccentricities are not the same as mutilating yourself. Andrew Sullivan, for example, seems to want to protect the unmutilated gay franchise.

    • Replies: @Guest007
    @Henry Canaday

    A few links.

    Sidwell Friends

    https://www.sidwell.edu/about/news/news-detail/~board/homepage-news-panel/post/point-of-pride

    “I fully admit I’m learning a lot about things,” Sass says. “Through this group I’m learning about the experience of young trans-people and how we can be more supportive of them. Another thing I’m cognizant of is that the experience of LGBTQIA+ people can vary quite a bit by their socioeconomic status, race, immigrant status, and cultural background. And PA Pride is a great place to learn.”

    Harvard Westlake,

    https://hwchronicle.com/49281/features/transforming-the-policy-students-and-faculty-reflect-on-the-experiences-of-transgender-people-on-campus/

    Uriah Celaya ’18, who identifies as transgender, remembered when his French teacher Simona Ghirlanda asked to talk to him after class. Nervous to speak with her, Celaya tried to recall what he could have done wrong.

    The Dalton School

    https://www.dalton.org/about/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/community-and-commitment

    Spectrum Club
    is a community-wide discussion and support group. The club is a safe space within the Dalton community and provides resources for anyone dealing with the issues that its members target. GLASS attempts, with the help of students and faculty, regardless of sexual orientation, to raise awareness and combat homophobia within the Dalton community and the larger society through discussions, assemblies, speakers, and films. Participating in the club or attending a meeting does not mean that a student or faculty member is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, but a supporter of its mission.

    TheRamaz School (rated number one Jewish private school in NYC.

    https://www.the-rampage.org/5738/features/lgbtq-in-ramaz-and-its-policies/

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.” According to Eshel, some Yeshivot that have a full inclusion policy are: The Frisch School, Shalhevet High School, Ma’ayanot Yeshiva High School for Girls, Beth Tfiloh Dahan Community School, and SAR High School. Other schools have partial inclusion policies, such as Robert M. Beren Academy, DRS – Hebrew Academy of Long Beach, Katz Yeshiva High School, Columbus Torah Academy, and Kohelet Yeshiva High School


    Remember, data and facts are always easier to deal with than memes and tropes.

    Replies: @Ed, @kaganovitch

  93. @Barnard
    @Art Deco


    You mean life was better when blatantly innocent men were sent to prison?
     
    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    The racial angle was a modest part of the story, btw. It was mostly about family and friends.
     
    Good grief, the racial angle is directly tied into the title of the book. It comes from the newspaper editors comments about how executing Tom Robinson would be like killing an innocent mockingbird.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    How are the January 6th protesters doing?

    Pretty badly if I understand correctly. Your point is what?

  94. @Henry Canaday
    @Guest007

    I'm sure what you say is true, but these eccentricities are not the same as mutilating yourself. Andrew Sullivan, for example, seems to want to protect the unmutilated gay franchise.

    Replies: @Guest007

    A few links.

    Sidwell Friends

    https://www.sidwell.edu/about/news/news-detail/~board/homepage-news-panel/post/point-of-pride

    “I fully admit I’m learning a lot about things,” Sass says. “Through this group I’m learning about the experience of young trans-people and how we can be more supportive of them. Another thing I’m cognizant of is that the experience of LGBTQIA+ people can vary quite a bit by their socioeconomic status, race, immigrant status, and cultural background. And PA Pride is a great place to learn.”

    Harvard Westlake,

    https://hwchronicle.com/49281/features/transforming-the-policy-students-and-faculty-reflect-on-the-experiences-of-transgender-people-on-campus/

    Uriah Celaya ’18, who identifies as transgender, remembered when his French teacher Simona Ghirlanda asked to talk to him after class. Nervous to speak with her, Celaya tried to recall what he could have done wrong.

    The Dalton School

    https://www.dalton.org/about/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/community-and-commitment

    Spectrum Club
    is a community-wide discussion and support group. The club is a safe space within the Dalton community and provides resources for anyone dealing with the issues that its members target. GLASS attempts, with the help of students and faculty, regardless of sexual orientation, to raise awareness and combat homophobia within the Dalton community and the larger society through discussions, assemblies, speakers, and films. Participating in the club or attending a meeting does not mean that a student or faculty member is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, but a supporter of its mission.

    TheRamaz School (rated number one Jewish private school in NYC.

    https://www.the-rampage.org/5738/features/lgbtq-in-ramaz-and-its-policies/

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.” According to Eshel, some Yeshivot that have a full inclusion policy are: The Frisch School, Shalhevet High School, Ma’ayanot Yeshiva High School for Girls, Beth Tfiloh Dahan Community School, and SAR High School. Other schools have partial inclusion policies, such as Robert M. Beren Academy, DRS – Hebrew Academy of Long Beach, Katz Yeshiva High School, Columbus Torah Academy, and Kohelet Yeshiva High School

    Remember, data and facts are always easier to deal with than memes and tropes.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Guest007

    These are not catholic schools and are nominally religious. In fact at most of the schools listed the religious affiliation is little more than branding.

    Replies: @Guest007

    , @kaganovitch
    @Guest007

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.”

    Speaking of data/facts, you misread that. That is the mission of Eshel (LGBT org.) not of Ramaz School. Per the article Ramaz doesn't have a formal policy on inclusion yet though they seem to be leaning that way.

    Replies: @Guest007

  95. Speaking of extinction. Kunstler is a must read today.
    His choice of resting place is perfect.

    “Worse is better,” V. Lenin used to explain to his Bolshevik cohorts in their vicious pursuit of power. And is there any question now that this is the same operational formula of the shadowy crew behind “Joe Biden” in its mission to turn the American Republic into a branch-office of the Schwabenklausian trans-human techno-tyranny?

    “Joe B” is doing his part to personally make things worse by taking Paxlovid, the Pfizer wonder drug that wondrously amps up Covid-19 symptoms and extends the course of the illness — as recently admitted by that other eminent, double-boosted Covid-19 sufferer, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the sage of US public health. If White House doctors follow the CDC’s treatment protocol they’ll soon put “JB” on remdesivir. Naturally, it kills him. State funeral… boo hoo… “46” is entombed under the Wilmington Amtrak station….

    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/people-get-ready-2/

  96. @JackOH
    @Jack D

    Jack D, you're being sarcastic, right?

    I'm missing something for sure. The Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians. Huh? I didn't see any offense either intended or implied in using Aunt Jemima or that Cream of Wheat guy as product identifiers. I'm not seeing Americans of Greek and Turkish ancestry getting worked up about Spartans and Trojans as mascots and team names. Should they be?

    What are we supposed to do about suburban developments named Chippewa Trail, Navajo Run, Mahoning Acres? Serious.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Sorry I forgot the sarc tag.

    I really don’t know what to do with Indian place names. OTOH you are supposed to say “We are living on the unceded territory of the Lenni Lenape tribe” or something every time you open a meeting but OTOH you are not allowed to have sports teams named after Indians. I’m still trying to figure out why “colored people” is bad but “people of color” is good. Maybe you need to be a real Native American in order to understand this. Maybe you could write to Liz Warren and ask her to explain it. Address to her in “City of Football Team”.

  97. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Reg Cæsar

    The woman I know who had the most children (I once saw 10 of them in one place--it was 13) was the mother of an old friend of mine. The friend reported her mother didn't really like children very much but she really liked being pregnant.

    Replies: @Sick n' Tired

    My family knew a lady like that, she wasn’t a very good mother to the kids she popped out, but liked being pregnant. She used it as an excuse to not have to do much of anything.

  98. @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The agenda is that, though the story is not completely implausible, it’s more likely that that you’d have your Emmitt Till scenario, i.e., with a bit more to it. Yes, as I wrote, it’s a very good book in terms of the writing, with a great description of the old South in better times.

    I don't know what you fancy her 'agenda' is. She's a lawyer's daughter who presents a miscarriage of justice. I have news for you. Courts can be hit and miss and Southern society was systematically unfair in unsightly ways.

    https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-American-Criminal-Justice/dp/0674051750

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable – see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it’s more likely that there’d be more to it – hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).

    Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable – see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it’s more likely that there’d be more to it – hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    I'll let my family know I have it on your authority that I have it in for them.

    That aside, the character Ewell was a lumpenproletarian. You have an irreducible population of them just about anywhere. He was also a cuss who beat his children. There's an irreducible population of such people too. He was also placed in a society hot-headed enough to sustain a certain amount of mob violence against prisoners that was not to be found in, say, New England. He was placed there by the daughter of a man who included criminal practice in his book of business. That's all terribly implausible.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  99. @Anon
    OT

    Thomas Edsall a couple of days ago in the NYT:


    In an email, Petrocik described some of the key points:

    The marriage gap far exceeds the gender gap. That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.
     

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/20/opinion/gender-gap-partisanship-politics.html

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @JR Ewing

    That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.

    I wonder if “unmarried women” for this purpose extends to those who are technically married but are de facto estranged because they can’t get along with their husband.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Hypnotoad666


    I wonder if “unmarried women” for this purpose extends to those who are technically married but are de facto estranged because they can’t get along with their husband.
     
    Yes, it’s always worth drilling down further in data sets and seeing what you discover. Remember when Steve correlated some of Cherry’s findings with locations of American Indian reservations and pretty much destroyed Cheddy’s conclusions?

    Personally, I would like to know what percentage of black Americans in the 1% made their wealth via routes that did not require much cognitive ability, such as entertainment, music, and athletics. In addition I’d always like to know what percentage of blacks in any survey or study had all four grandparents born in the United States.

    Groups are always composed of subgroups, all the way down.
  100. @Anon
    OT

    Thomas Edsall a couple of days ago in the NYT:


    In an email, Petrocik described some of the key points:

    The marriage gap far exceeds the gender gap. That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.
     

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/20/opinion/gender-gap-partisanship-politics.html

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @JR Ewing

    The Life of Julia

  101. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @J.Ross

    Unfortunately, even Mr. Rational, Penn Jillette, has lost his mind over the trans hoax/psyop:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/and-a-child-shall-mislead-them/

    There’s an old saying I just coined: “When you laugh at God, He laughs back and best.” Because now Jillette—Mr. “no pseudoscience,” Mr. “no cults or flimflam”—has become the spokesperson for the biggest pseudoscientific cultlike flimflam of the 21st century. The guy who’s spent a career deconstructing magic (“no, the bouquet of flowers didn’t actually become a rabbit; it was sleight of hand”) is now a true believer that a girl can actually become a boy overnight, by the sheer power of mentalism!

    Abracagender!

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @J.Ross, @mc23

    I had not heard that. Very disappointing.

    He has always been one of my favorites precisely because of his “no bullshit” routine. Guess not anymore.

  102. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @J.Ross

    Unfortunately, even Mr. Rational, Penn Jillette, has lost his mind over the trans hoax/psyop:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/and-a-child-shall-mislead-them/

    There’s an old saying I just coined: “When you laugh at God, He laughs back and best.” Because now Jillette—Mr. “no pseudoscience,” Mr. “no cults or flimflam”—has become the spokesperson for the biggest pseudoscientific cultlike flimflam of the 21st century. The guy who’s spent a career deconstructing magic (“no, the bouquet of flowers didn’t actually become a rabbit; it was sleight of hand”) is now a true believer that a girl can actually become a boy overnight, by the sheer power of mentalism!

    Abracagender!

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @J.Ross, @mc23

    Live long enough to see people you admire turn to mush …

  103. I did a Google image search for “Fish of the Week” (did you know that there is such a thing?) and sure enough, there is only one female amongst a plethora of male Fish of the Week winners. Thus, rare. Good for her! – – but personally I would not want a girlfriend who is a fish-of-the-week winner.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @SafeNow

    Congrats on being someone who would not settle for just any girl-friend! Although if you think the one in the picture is not attractive, maybe you are not interested in girl-friends at all ..... just saying ....

    That being said, a lot of what is going on here is "equity." Lots of liberal men, and the women who imitate the opinions of liberal men because, well, conservative men at the same level are not really interested in them, are very very angry that effeminate boys, over the years, have been bullied and mistreated and subjected to violence - all of which is, to be sure, wrong ----

    while tomboys have gotten treated well, in comparison, even getting starring roles in novels and films, and having been more often treated well than having been mocked, as every single effeminate boy is mocked (or, usually, worse).

    The proponents of "equity" hate that.

    It is fine to be angered that boys who were not as rough and tumble as other boys were mistreated, but it is wrong to take that anger out on tomboys and to tell them they have no right to consider themselves girls, that they too are really boys. It is very very wrong! But that is the misogynistic thinking of so many "gender-fluid" liberal intellectuals.

    We need to recognize differences among us without seeking vengeance, as the proponents of "equity" so often do.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @SafeNow

    I wouldn’t want a girlfriend who was a fish of any kind.

    I much prefer humans.

  104. @Unintended Consequence
    I remember guys really liking tomboys in the 70s. Such girls often started dating earlier because it was easy for guys to talk to them and they were cool because they liked sports. I find it odd that an assertive tomboy-type could be confused by transgender nonsense. Too bad if it's true because this means the loss of the kind of woman who would thrive as the mother of sons.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    I agree with you and don’t think assertive, athletic tomboys are fooled by the transgender nonsense (unless they are groomed into by parents at a young age).

    I know a few female to male transgenders and they weren’t tomboys prior to transition. More like dorky chubby girls obsessed with anime, Tumblr, and fan fiction. These women were not masculine at all, despite playing video games and having an unkempt appearance. Very sensitive types, possibly on the spectrum. From what I’ve seen on Twitter where transgenders of both varieties tend to congregate, this is typical.

    If there are fewer tomboys now it’s because of social media or the overall feminization of the culture rather than transgenderism being trendy among the wackier segments of the population.

  105. @SFG
    One thing I always wondered about: before the Fall, in the 1950s and earlier, why were tomboys more approved of than sissies? Not all feminine boys were gay.

    Replies: @Daniel H

    There’s a stat out there that says a full 25% of sissy boys grow up to become normal heterosexuals. But with trannymania these poor lads are being directed to the scalpel. Now, it’s bad enough for a gay to have his private parts chopped off, how much worse must it be for a normal lad to have them severed?

  106. Considering another post about “eye-wateringly” why is the term “tom-boy”? Why not “tomasina-boy” or “tom-girl”?

  107. @SafeNow
    https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article12911579.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Fish-of-the-Week-perchjpeg.jpg

    I did a Google image search for “Fish of the Week” (did you know that there is such a thing?) and sure enough, there is only one female amongst a plethora of male Fish of the Week winners. Thus, rare. Good for her! - - but personally I would not want a girlfriend who is a fish-of-the-week winner.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet, @Paleo Liberal

    Congrats on being someone who would not settle for just any girl-friend! Although if you think the one in the picture is not attractive, maybe you are not interested in girl-friends at all ….. just saying ….

    That being said, a lot of what is going on here is “equity.” Lots of liberal men, and the women who imitate the opinions of liberal men because, well, conservative men at the same level are not really interested in them, are very very angry that effeminate boys, over the years, have been bullied and mistreated and subjected to violence – all of which is, to be sure, wrong —-

    while tomboys have gotten treated well, in comparison, even getting starring roles in novels and films, and having been more often treated well than having been mocked, as every single effeminate boy is mocked (or, usually, worse).

    The proponents of “equity” hate that.

    It is fine to be angered that boys who were not as rough and tumble as other boys were mistreated, but it is wrong to take that anger out on tomboys and to tell them they have no right to consider themselves girls, that they too are really boys. It is very very wrong! But that is the misogynistic thinking of so many “gender-fluid” liberal intellectuals.

    We need to recognize differences among us without seeking vengeance, as the proponents of “equity” so often do.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @middle-aged vet

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uFf2DLTHmLc

  108. @SafeNow
    https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article12911579.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Fish-of-the-Week-perchjpeg.jpg

    I did a Google image search for “Fish of the Week” (did you know that there is such a thing?) and sure enough, there is only one female amongst a plethora of male Fish of the Week winners. Thus, rare. Good for her! - - but personally I would not want a girlfriend who is a fish-of-the-week winner.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet, @Paleo Liberal

    I wouldn’t want a girlfriend who was a fish of any kind.

    I much prefer humans.

  109. Seems like the classic “tomboy” was thrown under the bus, long before the tranny nonsense.

    I’d say, once Jewish 2nd wave “oppression!” feminism replaced the goy tomboy and Protestant church lady feminism. These were not women who wanted to play baseball or study physics. They were whiny or bitchy verbalist Jewish gals who were annoyed their mother’s were all “my son the doctor”, while wanting them to marry a nice Jewish boy and pop out some kids.

    Tomboys (by existing) are a rebuke to the blank slate “social construction” stuff and blaming the (goy) patriarchy for all these women’s unhappiness and are not generally hostile to men. So unless they were willing to be lesbians and really join the sisterhood, there wasn’t much use for this whole (goyish) tomboy thing.

    ~~

    BTW–solidly hetero–tomboys can a lot of fun. They are more interested in doing sports and outdoorsy stuff that guys like, they are more interested in material world (science/tech) subjects guys enjoy–so often more interesting to talk to–and skewing toward higher testosterone levels they generally have a higher sex drive. And they aren’t BPD nut jobs. Plenty of good sex, better activities and conversation together … and you’re probably less likely to end up being divorce raped.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    When I give it a bit of thought the "tomboy" is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes--enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills--well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those "male" genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Hibernian

  110. @Veteran Aryan
    @Reg Cæsar


    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were “dolls”.
     
    Action figures, damn you! ACTION. FIGURES.

    My aunt and uncle once gave us barbie dolls for Christmas just so they could take pictures of our faces when we opened them. Fifty years later, they still like to show me that picture. Later they gave us Johnny West action figures to which we were a lot more receptive.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    The first time I heard that “action figures are just dolls” line, I was about 12 years old, I owned all of the GI Joe toys, and I was PISSED. BE GONE SATAN!

    Now I can see that, yeah, they’re just dolls for boys, even with the swivel arm grip.

  111. People seem rather chuffed over NASA selecting a Latinx immigrant as a flight director:

    When she arrived in the U.S. her goal was “not to starve.”

    Now she’s overseeing
    @NASA
    ’s next trip to the moon.

    Because of the perseverance and ingenuity of immigrants, in our country, the sky is no limit

    I’m just disappointed that she’s so hideously White….

    • Replies: @epebble
    @syonredux

    Women are doing well at NASA.

    https://women.nasa.gov/

    Replies: @BB753

    , @Joe Stalin
    @syonredux

    Getting America to the moon was von Braun's aim when he arrived.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiH-ZTUJ0II

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @syonredux

    NASA is big on diversity-worship, that is primarily why she got the gig. The actual technical work is done by white and asian men.

  112. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The Extinction of the Tomboy
     

    It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”
     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIETWVsAArgOL.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIGDMVEAAgDWF.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIHi4VIAIZyeC.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBII1UVUAE8pUp.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVGVJXQUEAAa0tM.jpg

    From the Twitter feed of the talented Tatsuya Ishida.

    https://twitter.com/TatsuyaIshida9/status/1535806847050911744

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Corvinus, @SFG, @J.Ross

    That webcomic apparently started out as a fratboyish New Atheist sex joke comic, went radical feminist in the early 2010s as he felt guilty, and then went anti-trans Christian in 2019. Apparently he annoyed and alienated all his fans with the flip-flops.

    Enjoy it while you can, just don’t be too surprised if he turns into a neocon in 7 years.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @SFG


    That webcomic apparently started out as a fratboyish New Atheist sex joke comic
     
    Sinfest. I’m familiar with the webcomic from reading it in the ‘aughts.

    It is very good, poking fun at all manner of godless debauchery/sin and religiosity, but with sympathy and good humor, and some poignancy. No one ‘perspective’ was spared, except perhaps (due to his Asian heritage?) the aloofly benign Asian 'mystical dragon' minor character. The artwork was/is excellent—Ishida is a master of character expression and cinematic framing.

  113. re Peppermint Patty: if Charles Schulz included you in the Peanuts gang, you are more organic to nature and America than any man wearing a dress.

  114. OT Steve Bannon sentenced for a “crime” that pretty much everyone in DC has committed without any sign of interest from the collapsing law scam.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @J.Ross

    J. Ross, I just heard that, too. I didn't follow Trump's acolytes at all to speak of. Bannon seemed to me the most skin-blisteringly honest man out there telling us the obvious. America's elites don't care a fig about America or Americans. It's all about money and power, and the rest of us are just dunnage.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Hibernian
    @J.Ross

    Contempt of Congress is a National Sport.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  115. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The Extinction of the Tomboy
     

    It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”
     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIETWVsAArgOL.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIGDMVEAAgDWF.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBIHi4VIAIZyeC.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVBII1UVUAE8pUp.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVGVJXQUEAAa0tM.jpg

    From the Twitter feed of the talented Tatsuya Ishida.

    https://twitter.com/TatsuyaIshida9/status/1535806847050911744

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Corvinus, @SFG, @J.Ross

    It’s okay, it’s not Stonetoss, and if you like your material queer yet trad, GPrime85 says it in about a quarter the panels.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @J.Ross

    Mr. Ross, have you ever been diagnosed with autism?

    Replies: @J.Ross

  116. @syonredux
    People seem rather chuffed over NASA selecting a Latinx immigrant as a flight director:

    When she arrived in the U.S. her goal was “not to starve.”

    Now she’s overseeing
    @NASA
    ’s next trip to the moon.

    Because of the perseverance and ingenuity of immigrants, in our country, the sky is no limit

     

    https://twitter.com/NatImmForum/status/1549789765620342784


    I'm just disappointed that she's so hideously White....

    https://img.youtube.com/vi/vUuUyYqI83Q/maxresdefault.jpg

    Replies: @epebble, @Joe Stalin, @Mike_from_SGV

    Women are doing well at NASA.

    https://women.nasa.gov/

    • Replies: @BB753
    @epebble

    Yeah, because NASA is just a front for the industrial -military establishment and DARPA. Not much rocketeering or space exploration going on. Just 20 % of NASA activity has anything to do with space.
    Ask Dennis Bushnell!
    https://www.nasa.gov/content/how-will-we-work-in-2025/

  117. @middle-aged vet
    @SafeNow

    Congrats on being someone who would not settle for just any girl-friend! Although if you think the one in the picture is not attractive, maybe you are not interested in girl-friends at all ..... just saying ....

    That being said, a lot of what is going on here is "equity." Lots of liberal men, and the women who imitate the opinions of liberal men because, well, conservative men at the same level are not really interested in them, are very very angry that effeminate boys, over the years, have been bullied and mistreated and subjected to violence - all of which is, to be sure, wrong ----

    while tomboys have gotten treated well, in comparison, even getting starring roles in novels and films, and having been more often treated well than having been mocked, as every single effeminate boy is mocked (or, usually, worse).

    The proponents of "equity" hate that.

    It is fine to be angered that boys who were not as rough and tumble as other boys were mistreated, but it is wrong to take that anger out on tomboys and to tell them they have no right to consider themselves girls, that they too are really boys. It is very very wrong! But that is the misogynistic thinking of so many "gender-fluid" liberal intellectuals.

    We need to recognize differences among us without seeking vengeance, as the proponents of "equity" so often do.

    Replies: @SafeNow

  118. @SFG
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That webcomic apparently started out as a fratboyish New Atheist sex joke comic, went radical feminist in the early 2010s as he felt guilty, and then went anti-trans Christian in 2019. Apparently he annoyed and alienated all his fans with the flip-flops.

    Enjoy it while you can, just don’t be too surprised if he turns into a neocon in 7 years.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That webcomic apparently started out as a fratboyish New Atheist sex joke comic

    Sinfest. I’m familiar with the webcomic from reading it in the ‘aughts.

    It is very good, poking fun at all manner of godless debauchery/sin and religiosity, but with sympathy and good humor, and some poignancy. No one ‘perspective’ was spared, except perhaps (due to his Asian heritage?) the aloofly benign Asian ‘mystical dragon’ minor character. The artwork was/is excellent—Ishida is a master of character expression and cinematic framing.

  119. Was trying to remember the term “tomboy” last night. That area of memory had not been accessed in a very long time. It came up after various “tom-something” attempts. Came about when thinking about a gender neutral youth (observed behavior indicated around ninth grade) that I had encountered earlier this year.

    Schrodinger’s gender. An observer must “open the box” [drop the individual’s pants, sexual assault on a special victim] to observe the actual gender.

    Puberty blockers are neutering children, same as a pet cat or dog. They will never be a real male, or a real female. Neutered, androgynous beings, ready to accept a fake identity and populate a Brave New World.

    I imagine that neutered teenagers might be easier to handle for “educators”, that could be a reason for the push by “educators” for gender nonsense.

  120. @J.Ross
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It's okay, it's not Stonetoss, and if you like your material queer yet trad, GPrime85 says it in about a quarter the panels.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Mr. Ross, have you ever been diagnosed with autism?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I have actually passed through a real multi-day evaluation suffering only the psych accusation of "anxiety."

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  121. @J.Ross
    OT Steve Bannon sentenced for a "crime" that pretty much everyone in DC has committed without any sign of interest from the collapsing law scam.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Hibernian

    J. Ross, I just heard that, too. I didn’t follow Trump’s acolytes at all to speak of. Bannon seemed to me the most skin-blisteringly honest man out there telling us the obvious. America’s elites don’t care a fig about America or Americans. It’s all about money and power, and the rest of us are just dunnage.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @JackOH

    Yeah, his defense team bet the house on either glory in posterity or sane jurors, they literally didn't cross or call, and they say they'll win on appeal. Eric Holder spent like his whole term in DC in "Contempt of Congress." It's a fake thing like "negotiating with a foreign power" (which Kerry clearly did in Iran).

    Replies: @JackOH

  122. @AnotherDad
    Seems like the classic "tomboy" was thrown under the bus, long before the tranny nonsense.

    I'd say, once Jewish 2nd wave "oppression!" feminism replaced the goy tomboy and Protestant church lady feminism. These were not women who wanted to play baseball or study physics. They were whiny or bitchy verbalist Jewish gals who were annoyed their mother's were all "my son the doctor", while wanting them to marry a nice Jewish boy and pop out some kids.

    Tomboys (by existing) are a rebuke to the blank slate "social construction" stuff and blaming the (goy) patriarchy for all these women's unhappiness and are not generally hostile to men. So unless they were willing to be lesbians and really join the sisterhood, there wasn't much use for this whole (goyish) tomboy thing.

    ~~

    BTW--solidly hetero--tomboys can a lot of fun. They are more interested in doing sports and outdoorsy stuff that guys like, they are more interested in material world (science/tech) subjects guys enjoy--so often more interesting to talk to--and skewing toward higher testosterone levels they generally have a higher sex drive. And they aren't BPD nut jobs. Plenty of good sex, better activities and conversation together ... and you're probably less likely to end up being divorce raped.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    When I give it a bit of thought the “tomboy” is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes–enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills–well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those “male” genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @AnotherDad


    When I give it a bit of thought the “tomboy” is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes–enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills–well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those “male” genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.
     
    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either "male" or "female" as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?

    I'm not sure which is more annoying. Your attempts to tell us what is "male" or "female," implying that we're defective if we don't conform to your narrow preconceptions, or wokesters telling us we get to choose whether we male or female.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Hibernian
    @AnotherDad

    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism. I went to college with a lot of them at Iowa State. Environment (post birth) as well as heredity and very early (in the womb) environment.

    Replies: @Rosie, @njguy73

  123. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then. The focus went from armies of men fighting, to dressing up a single man (or a few) with kit items and having them fight each other, rather than setting up entire battles.Boys don’t play with toy armies anymore, for the most part.

    I’m not sure what changed, to cause the shift.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @PiltdownMan


    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then.
     
    Exactly. Sorry but G.I. Joe was lame and faggy. What normal guy wants to play with a doll--even a soldier doll?

    The tradition is army men--plural--and setting up a battle.

    When I was a kid less than a buck would buy you a bag of 100 soldiers. Our guys--green--had mostly guys carrying or shooting M1s, and some guys with bazookas or prone with a BAR. I know the Germans--gray--had some guys with potato mashers and I'm sure a bunch of other positions that I can't remember.

    Then we'd go to one of the sand piles at the houses being built and build roads, dig tunnels and stage battles. I don't have any of these soldiers now. Though i'm sure I'd find some if I jackhammered through the driveway/patios/basements of houses in my old neighborhood.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @J.Ross
    @PiltdownMan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk0i0yTPJBY
    I have a set I haven't painted yet of 90's Russians squaring off against Chechens. I am toying with the idea of buying one of those sets of extra Risk pieces and very carefully painting one period-appropriate contrast color.

  124. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666
    @Anon


    That is, unmarried women are among the most Democratically inclined group in the society. The marriage gap (among women) approaches the racial gap.
     
    I wonder if "unmarried women" for this purpose extends to those who are technically married but are de facto estranged because they can't get along with their husband.

    Replies: @Anon

    I wonder if “unmarried women” for this purpose extends to those who are technically married but are de facto estranged because they can’t get along with their husband.

    Yes, it’s always worth drilling down further in data sets and seeing what you discover. Remember when Steve correlated some of Cherry’s findings with locations of American Indian reservations and pretty much destroyed Cheddy’s conclusions?

    Personally, I would like to know what percentage of black Americans in the 1% made their wealth via routes that did not require much cognitive ability, such as entertainment, music, and athletics. In addition I’d always like to know what percentage of blacks in any survey or study had all four grandparents born in the United States.

    Groups are always composed of subgroups, all the way down.

  125. @Veteran Aryan
    Growing up, I was close with a cousin who was very much a tomboy. Today, she's married, has five kids, and runs her own business. She's also super woke. I wonder if it ever occurs to her that if she was that same child now, her teachers would be encouraging her to transition. No family of her own, just a mutilated body.

    Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Does this mean wokeness has a genetic component? Meaning, those Whites who flirt with queerness (say girls always trying to outcompete boys) grow up to be liberals.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Girls trying to outcompete boys has nothing to do with queerness whatsoever. It is either simply a personality trait (some people are naturally more assertive/competitive than others, women included) or a kind of very heterosexual challenge to find a worthy male.

    Calling such things “queerness” is just as silly as the gender woo babble from the left.

  126. @syonredux
    People seem rather chuffed over NASA selecting a Latinx immigrant as a flight director:

    When she arrived in the U.S. her goal was “not to starve.”

    Now she’s overseeing
    @NASA
    ’s next trip to the moon.

    Because of the perseverance and ingenuity of immigrants, in our country, the sky is no limit

     

    https://twitter.com/NatImmForum/status/1549789765620342784


    I'm just disappointed that she's so hideously White....

    https://img.youtube.com/vi/vUuUyYqI83Q/maxresdefault.jpg

    Replies: @epebble, @Joe Stalin, @Mike_from_SGV

    Getting America to the moon was von Braun’s aim when he arrived.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Joe Stalin

    Getting America to the moon was von Braun’s aim when he arrived.

    And yet without Katherine Johnson he would have been toast. Makes you think.

  127. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Art Deco

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable - see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it's more likely that there'd be more to it - hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).

    Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable – see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it’s more likely that there’d be more to it – hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    I’ll let my family know I have it on your authority that I have it in for them.

    That aside, the character Ewell was a lumpenproletarian. You have an irreducible population of them just about anywhere. He was also a cuss who beat his children. There’s an irreducible population of such people too. He was also placed in a society hot-headed enough to sustain a certain amount of mob violence against prisoners that was not to be found in, say, New England. He was placed there by the daughter of a man who included criminal practice in his book of business. That’s all terribly implausible.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Art Deco


    I’ll let my family know I have it on your authority that I have it in for them.
     
    You ought to do that.

    I simply said the racial angle of the book was part of an agenda. I have no doubt about that. It's also a significant part of the story. That's in an otherwise very good novel which I enjoyed.
  128. @Art Deco
    We used to have millions of tomboys.

    If my upbringing was representative, a pretty unusual type. Off hand, I can remember one or two. I can find the one with this intertubes thingy. She's been married close to 30 years and has a son born when she was about 35. She's been in the same line of work since age 22 and had only 3 or 4 employers in that time. She's a golf pro.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    You must have lived under a rock. As with everything, there are differences of degree. Think of the field hockey team. (Maybe your school didn’t have one.)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Hibernian

    Most certainly had a field hockey team and my sister was on it.

    My office mate of many years played field hockey. She's a girly-girl by default.

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Hibernian

    , @Jack P
    @Hibernian

    My school had a field hockey team. Loved the game days when they wore their skirts to school.

  129. @Art Deco
    @ex-banker

    The business model of the Catholic school was to provide education at a modest price through the use of those who did not have dependents and lived communally. The model failed with the demographic collapse of the religious orders. The scale of it in some orders was astonishing. The diocesan priesthood saw a 60% decline in annual ordinations between 1965 and 2000. Ordinations among the religious orders declined by 90%. As for women religious, I had a conversation with a woman in 2001 who told me that the number of women taking their vows each year and entering her order declined by 97%.

    What the dioceses and religious orders did was to turn Catholic schools into schools for the children of the professional-managerial bourgeoisie. The lay teachers are not schooled in matters religious and the parents aren't the sort of people who pay much attention to clergymen. See the catastrophe at Charlottte (NC) Catholic High School in 2014. I knew a devout graduate of Franciscan University of Steubenville who lasted one year as a Catholic schoolteacher. He went to work in a call center after that.

    Homeschool co-operatives may work for some Catholic parents. The Catholic schools are another failed business model.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    The business model of the Catholic school was to provide education at a modest price through the use of those who did not have dependents and lived communally. The model failed with the demographic collapse of the religious orders.

    Homeschool co-operatives may work for some Catholic parents. The Catholic schools are another failed business model.

    Good summary Art. I’m skeptical of any sort of “Catholic school” solution. While not the debacle of mainline Protestantism, the Catholics are not really standing athwart the world. And the sort of people who can afford Catholic school now are not diligent in demanding they do so.

    Primary and secondary teachers are generally not the sort of people who bother to think about questions like “how did we get here?”, “what is civilization?” and “what is required to reproduce it?” And if they do, their answers tend to be very ho-hum and conformist.

    The only solution I can see is school choice. The school choices right now are insufficient, but if any actual parentally driven market was created, parents would quickly start seeing better options.

    However, as your Charlotte Catholic example shows, even this is insufficient without rolling back at least some of the minoritarian totalitarian–“Civil Rights”–project. Minoritarianism is simply a totalitarian ideology that brooks no dissent. If you can’t dissent from its narrative, then all “alternative education” projects are going to fail. (Home schooling only sort of works because they can’t “civil rights” their way into your home to boss you around–yet.)

  130. @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then. The focus went from armies of men fighting, to dressing up a single man (or a few) with kit items and having them fight each other, rather than setting up entire battles.Boys don't play with toy armies anymore, for the most part.

    I'm not sure what changed, to cause the shift.

    http://www.sierratoysoldier.com/images/newsletter/soldier-header.jpg

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @J.Ross

    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then.

    Exactly. Sorry but G.I. Joe was lame and faggy. What normal guy wants to play with a doll–even a soldier doll?

    The tradition is army men–plural–and setting up a battle.

    When I was a kid less than a buck would buy you a bag of 100 soldiers. Our guys–green–had mostly guys carrying or shooting M1s, and some guys with bazookas or prone with a BAR. I know the Germans–gray–had some guys with potato mashers and I’m sure a bunch of other positions that I can’t remember.

    Then we’d go to one of the sand piles at the houses being built and build roads, dig tunnels and stage battles. I don’t have any of these soldiers now. Though i’m sure I’d find some if I jackhammered through the driveway/patios/basements of houses in my old neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @AnotherDad

    I remember "green army men" as being small and not very stable when you tried to move them around.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  131. @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    When I give it a bit of thought the "tomboy" is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes--enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills--well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those "male" genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Hibernian

    When I give it a bit of thought the “tomboy” is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes–enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills–well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those “male” genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.

    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either “male” or “female” as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?

    I’m not sure which is more annoying. Your attempts to tell us what is “male” or “female,” implying that we’re defective if we don’t conform to your narrow preconceptions, or wokesters telling us we get to choose whether we male or female.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Rosie


    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either “male” or “female” as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?
     
    No. I'm not any sort of problem.

    You're just one of those tedious "feminist" cranks who gets all wound up whenever someone makes or uses completely normal, well understood, i.e. stereotypical--categorizations regarding sexual differences. (Racial ones, you're happy with ... sexual ones, Rosie mad!)

    Boys do like to run around outside more. Boys do like to do more physical play--and sports. Doesn't mean those traits are is limited to one sex. AnotherMom likes to camp and hike (more "liked" for the camping). My boy does "get out there" a lot--good chance he's out camping with some buddies now. One my girls also--though to a lesser extent. But if you survey who's jacked up to "get out there" on a given weekend, it will skew male.

    Furthermore, categorization wasn't even the point of the comment. It was that those are particularly useful traits for male side of the "farmer" or "hunter" livelihood so "tomboy" seems to be a kind of goyishe type where those traits are well expressed in a girl. (Which of course does not mean there can't be Jewish outdoor and sports loving tomboys.)

    This is all ho-hum. Normal people get it and don't have a problem with it. You're just a crank. And doing--very stereotypical--tedious female finger waging.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Bel Riose

  132. @J.Ross
    OT Steve Bannon sentenced for a "crime" that pretty much everyone in DC has committed without any sign of interest from the collapsing law scam.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Hibernian

    Contempt of Congress is a National Sport.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Hibernian

    Contempt of Congress is a National Sport.

    Little has changed since Mark Twain wrote "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress."

  133. @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    When I give it a bit of thought the "tomboy" is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes--enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills--well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those "male" genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Hibernian

    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism. I went to college with a lot of them at Iowa State. Environment (post birth) as well as heredity and very early (in the womb) environment.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Hibernian


    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism.
     
    So true. Contra AD, farming has always been a joint enterprise, with women going out and doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/7n8zieejcBLcSCd98

    (That’s me right smack in the middle between Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash.)

    , @njguy73
    @Hibernian

    In the 1930s, six-on-six girls basketball was huge in Iowa. Several books have been written about it. Here's one.

    https://www.abebooks.com/9780803282995/Dance-Iowa-History-Six-Player-Girls-0803282990/plp

    Replies: @Jack P

  134. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @Veteran Aryan

    Does this mean wokeness has a genetic component? Meaning, those Whites who flirt with queerness (say girls always trying to outcompete boys) grow up to be liberals.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    Girls trying to outcompete boys has nothing to do with queerness whatsoever. It is either simply a personality trait (some people are naturally more assertive/competitive than others, women included) or a kind of very heterosexual challenge to find a worthy male.

    Calling such things “queerness” is just as silly as the gender woo babble from the left.

  135. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @J.Ross

    Unfortunately, even Mr. Rational, Penn Jillette, has lost his mind over the trans hoax/psyop:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/and-a-child-shall-mislead-them/

    There’s an old saying I just coined: “When you laugh at God, He laughs back and best.” Because now Jillette—Mr. “no pseudoscience,” Mr. “no cults or flimflam”—has become the spokesperson for the biggest pseudoscientific cultlike flimflam of the 21st century. The guy who’s spent a career deconstructing magic (“no, the bouquet of flowers didn’t actually become a rabbit; it was sleight of hand”) is now a true believer that a girl can actually become a boy overnight, by the sheer power of mentalism!

    Abracagender!

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @J.Ross, @mc23

    You can rationalize anything given enough words.

  136. @Reg Cæsar
    My mother objected to us playing with G.I. Joes because they were "dolls". She came from a large German family in Queens-- working-class Trumps, if you will. The women were quite tough, yet expected their men to be tougher.

    No idea if it was "despite" or "because", but it was the quietest and most unassuming of the girls who went dyke in her old age. Yet only one of her many siblings had had more children.

    This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Achmed E. Newman, @Joe Stalin, @BB753, @Veteran Aryan, @PiltdownMan, @Stan Adams

    My mother wanted to get me a Cabbage Patch kid but my grandmother wouldn’t hear of it. No grandson of hers was going to play with a doll!

    The weird thing is that I already had a bunch of stuffed animals. Judging by old family photos I must have had a hundred of them. So what difference would it have made?

    Incidentally, I never had any G.I. Joe action figures, even though I watched the show religiously.

    [MORE]

  137. @Anon
    When I was younger I used to be attracted to “gamine” young women, like some of Audrey Hepburn’s looks, and also to women with strong facial features like the French ye-ye Françoise Hardy. But I’ve noticed that now I’m turned off by any look that “facial feminization” surgery could achieve on a guy, even if I’m sure the person is really female. Also, tall women now turn me off. And petite hands are a turn on.

    Replies: @mc23

    Was at an 80’s dance party recently, a mix of old and young. One conspicuous tranny trying to look respectable but the size of Bruce Jenner. Noticed several younger women who if dressed differently could have passed for guys. Sad to wonder if they were trannies or just mannish looking. Made me think if I was a young man I would certainly be looking for much more feminine features and characteristics then I actually did at the time.

    I dated one tomboy. She was slender, taller than most men and dressed in shapeless clothes could have passed casually as a man. She tried to be feminine at times but it was total fail, painful actually. If she was feminine she would have been a bombshell. She had curves galore, a great body. She liked men but being odd drove them away. I broke down and went out with her. After a while I realized I wasn’t cut out for a life time of makeup sex. I wonder with the current madness how some people would try and categorize her.

    She eventually married and had a very pretty daughter who acted just like her mother.

  138. I always thought Sugar Ray Leonard came across as a little effemminate.

    I will give you Leon Spinks though.

  139. Anonymous[181] • Disclaimer says:

    A big reason for this insanity is that we’ve let high IQ masculine men who like to dress up in women’s lingerie

    Why are you so worked up about this Steve? It is good to eliminate gender barriers in sports. It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    In any case, the solution is to eliminate the whole conceptual framework of gender:”man,” “woman”.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Anonymous


    It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.
     
    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people's sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, women are well aware that we are physically weaker than you, and we're not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that you have this inexplicable need to humiliate.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Bel Riose

  140. @Art Deco
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah, of course they can, but it was the evil Dad, Mr. Ewell, who I found somewhat unbelievable – see, you have that anti-Southern White man bit ingrained in you, Art, but not everyone does. In the real world, it’s more likely that there’d be more to it – hence I brought up Emmitt Till (seems like that was just yesterday, from reading iSteve posts).Indeed it was a great book, as I wrote, but the racial angle was a major part of the story.

    I'll let my family know I have it on your authority that I have it in for them.

    That aside, the character Ewell was a lumpenproletarian. You have an irreducible population of them just about anywhere. He was also a cuss who beat his children. There's an irreducible population of such people too. He was also placed in a society hot-headed enough to sustain a certain amount of mob violence against prisoners that was not to be found in, say, New England. He was placed there by the daughter of a man who included criminal practice in his book of business. That's all terribly implausible.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ll let my family know I have it on your authority that I have it in for them.

    You ought to do that.

    I simply said the racial angle of the book was part of an agenda. I have no doubt about that. It’s also a significant part of the story. That’s in an otherwise very good novel which I enjoyed.

  141. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    @Rob McX

    Yes, I had a collection of golliwog figurines of jazz musicians circa 1960 that I was very proud of, and had no idea that these were insulting to black people, but that is hardly the point.

    The golliwog, with its stereotypically crude features, was a popular childhood toy across Europe and the USA during the 1800s and 1900s. It originated in a children’s story book, The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls, written by American author Florence Kate Upton in 1895.

    In the story, two dolls, Peg and Sara Jane, are let loose in a toy shop where they encounter Golliwog, ‘the blackest gnome’, dressed in red trousers, red bow tie and blue coat. He was visually crude, with a black face, unruly hair, thick lips and wide eyes.

    Golliwog was, in fact, a caricature of the American minstrels; white men who blacked up to perform songs in a manner that was itself a caricature.

    Upton’s book was hugely popular in Britain and she went on to write twelve more stories, in which Golliwog became the main character.

    The golliwog quickly became a staple character in children’s books, gradually transformed from the original ugly but lovable creature of Upton's stories into a stereotypical villain, mean-spirited and devious.

    The golliwog is now probably best remembered in Britain as the brand logo for Robertson’s jams. It first appeared on product labels and advertising material in 1910 and was immediately hugely popular. Robertson’s capitalised on this with marketing campaigns, producing a range of ‘Golly’ badges that were collected in exchange for coupons from their jams and marmalades.

    Around 1990 Robertson's got rid of the golliwog symbols, because activists complained about the dubious racial history of the toy.

    So the connection between white men dressing up as black men in a demeaning manner, and the logos on Robertson's jams, is a pretty thin one, and certainly not one that we children in the 1950s and 60s were in any sense aware of.

    Nor was Enid Blyton, I am sure, and I don't think she ever traveled to America. However Mr Robertson of jam and marmalade fame did get his idea of the golliwog symbol after a trip to the US.

    During the 1950s and '60s, they were very few black people in England, in spite of the arrival of some people from the West Indies to work in the London underground railway and on the buses.

    Most people's first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire. For example my (white) parents met in Nigeria, and during the 1950s my father was offered, but did not take up, a sales job in Jamaica.

    So at the time, the golliwog was something that was associated much more with Robertson's jam then with black people. It must have done a lot for jam sales in the days before TV advertising, because the jams were very popular, but there was nothing special about them except that you could collect the paper gollies tucked under the label and then mail them in to exchange for enamel badges and jazz musicians, which kept children enthusiastically consuming jam.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Carol, @Anonymous

    Most people’s first hand knowledge of black people was through the touring West Indian cricket team, who were highly regarded. Either that, or they had traveled or worked overseas in the days of waning empire.

    Many Brit’s still secretly love their golliwogs.

    They are cute little guys…

  142. @Rosie
    @AnotherDad


    When I give it a bit of thought the “tomboy” is a classical goyish archetype.

    Basically, you have useful male farmer/hunter traits/genes–enjoying the outdoors, physicality and good spatial skills–well expressed in a girl, probably due to a convergence of those “male” genes coupled with high testosterone exposure in the womb.
     
    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either "male" or "female" as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?

    I'm not sure which is more annoying. Your attempts to tell us what is "male" or "female," implying that we're defective if we don't conform to your narrow preconceptions, or wokesters telling us we get to choose whether we male or female.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either “male” or “female” as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?

    No. I’m not any sort of problem.

    You’re just one of those tedious “feminist” cranks who gets all wound up whenever someone makes or uses completely normal, well understood, i.e. stereotypical–categorizations regarding sexual differences. (Racial ones, you’re happy with … sexual ones, Rosie mad!)

    Boys do like to run around outside more. Boys do like to do more physical play–and sports. Doesn’t mean those traits are is limited to one sex. AnotherMom likes to camp and hike (more “liked” for the camping). My boy does “get out there” a lot–good chance he’s out camping with some buddies now. One my girls also–though to a lesser extent. But if you survey who’s jacked up to “get out there” on a given weekend, it will skew male.

    Furthermore, categorization wasn’t even the point of the comment. It was that those are particularly useful traits for male side of the “farmer” or “hunter” livelihood so “tomboy” seems to be a kind of goyishe type where those traits are well expressed in a girl. (Which of course does not mean there can’t be Jewish outdoor and sports loving tomboys.)

    This is all ho-hum. Normal people get it and don’t have a problem with it. You’re just a crank. And doing–very stereotypical–tedious female finger waging.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @AnotherDad


    And doing–very stereotypical–tedious female finger waging.
     
    Oh, but it is you who are tedious, and apparently incapable of learning how to be civil without a good deal of finger-wagging.

    Normal people get it and don’t have a problem with it.
     
    You are not normal, AD. You are a fist-shaking, irrelevant reactionary who who doesn't understand what normal people do and do not have a problem with. Go pick a random woman off the street and start spouting off your nonsense about loving the outdoors being "male" and note the reaction.

    I suggest your very own neighborhood. Take a look around and you're liable to find a woman working in her garden while her husband and his "useful" farmer genes are sitting on the couch in the AC watching a ballgame of some sort.

    Seriously, I don’t much mind stereotypes, so long as they're accurate or at least plausibly non-retarded. You constantly bang on about how men "built everything." Of course, you have, in the meantime, chopped down innumerable acres of virgin forest and paved over much of the planet in concrete and ugly blacktop parking lots. But please go on and tell me more about men's love of the pristine wilderness.

    Replies: @Bel Riose

    , @Bel Riose
    @AnotherDad

    Well said, AD.

    Rosie is indeed a feminist crank -- one always on the lookout for an opportunity to finger-wag and scold.

    I read your original comment in the spirit with which you undoubtedly intended it to be read. And trust me -- so did everyone else here.

    Except for our resident feminist lunatic.

  143. @AnotherDad
    @Rosie


    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either “male” or “female” as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?
     
    No. I'm not any sort of problem.

    You're just one of those tedious "feminist" cranks who gets all wound up whenever someone makes or uses completely normal, well understood, i.e. stereotypical--categorizations regarding sexual differences. (Racial ones, you're happy with ... sexual ones, Rosie mad!)

    Boys do like to run around outside more. Boys do like to do more physical play--and sports. Doesn't mean those traits are is limited to one sex. AnotherMom likes to camp and hike (more "liked" for the camping). My boy does "get out there" a lot--good chance he's out camping with some buddies now. One my girls also--though to a lesser extent. But if you survey who's jacked up to "get out there" on a given weekend, it will skew male.

    Furthermore, categorization wasn't even the point of the comment. It was that those are particularly useful traits for male side of the "farmer" or "hunter" livelihood so "tomboy" seems to be a kind of goyishe type where those traits are well expressed in a girl. (Which of course does not mean there can't be Jewish outdoor and sports loving tomboys.)

    This is all ho-hum. Normal people get it and don't have a problem with it. You're just a crank. And doing--very stereotypical--tedious female finger waging.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Bel Riose

    And doing–very stereotypical–tedious female finger waging.

    Oh, but it is you who are tedious, and apparently incapable of learning how to be civil without a good deal of finger-wagging.

    Normal people get it and don’t have a problem with it.

    You are not normal, AD. You are a fist-shaking, irrelevant reactionary who who doesn’t understand what normal people do and do not have a problem with. Go pick a random woman off the street and start spouting off your nonsense about loving the outdoors being “male” and note the reaction.

    I suggest your very own neighborhood. Take a look around and you’re liable to find a woman working in her garden while her husband and his “useful” farmer genes are sitting on the couch in the AC watching a ballgame of some sort.

    Seriously, I don’t much mind stereotypes, so long as they’re accurate or at least plausibly non-retarded. You constantly bang on about how men “built everything.” Of course, you have, in the meantime, chopped down innumerable acres of virgin forest and paved over much of the planet in concrete and ugly blacktop parking lots. But please go on and tell me more about men’s love of the pristine wilderness.

    • Replies: @Bel Riose
    @Rosie

    You really are a lunatic.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  144. @Anonymous

    A big reason for this insanity is that we’ve let high IQ masculine men who like to dress up in women’s lingerie
     
    Why are you so worked up about this Steve? It is good to eliminate gender barriers in sports. It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    In any case, the solution is to eliminate the whole conceptual framework of gender:”man,” “woman”.

    Replies: @Rosie

    It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people’s sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, women are well aware that we are physically weaker than you, and we’re not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that you have this inexplicable need to humiliate.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Rosie

    Rosie wrote to Anonymous:


    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people’s sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?
     
    Rosie, Anonymous was being facetious. Read again what he wrote:

    Why are you so worked up about this Steve? It is good to eliminate gender barriers in sports. It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    In any case, the solution is to eliminate the whole conceptual framework of gender:”man,” “woman”.
     
    He would not have made the final comment about eliminating the concept of man and woman had he been serious.

    He's just pushing the current insanity to its ultimate limit, to point out how insane it is.

    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers. But not in terms of sports that hinge on raw physical strength.

    All sane people know this.

    But a significant fraction of the population today is not (or pretends not to be -- I suspect the latter) sane.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    , @Bel Riose
    @Rosie

    "It is good that women learn that they cannot compete with men."

    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks to deny this?

    What is it that impels you to seek to undermine science and physical reality, and insist that women are just as capable as men of being police officers, firefighters, Army Rangers, and Navy Seals? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, men are well aware that women are physically weaker than us, and we’re not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that feminists like you have this inexplicable need to put us, our loved ones, and our country at risk by insisting otherwise.

    Replies: @Rosie

  145. @Hibernian
    @AnotherDad

    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism. I went to college with a lot of them at Iowa State. Environment (post birth) as well as heredity and very early (in the womb) environment.

    Replies: @Rosie, @njguy73

    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism.

    So true. Contra AD, farming has always been a joint enterprise, with women going out and doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/7n8zieejcBLcSCd98

    (That’s me right smack in the middle between Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash.)

  146. @Achmed E. Newman
    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. "Pass the damn ham, Ma'am." Haha! I don't particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    Regarding tomboys, I have known a few. There is one I know well, a tomboy of the Peppermint Patty style in her youth but still pretty then, who is very nice woman. I've really thought she leans lesbian at times, but all I got is her attendance and photography of women's BBBall. She never got married.

    This kind of behavior before puberty should be nothing to worry about. It might very well indicate that she will become a much more agreeable wife than those early-on girly-girls. After puberty, well, parents better be very careful to not let her do something drastic and stupid.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @PhysicistDave

    Achmed E. Newman wrote:

    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. “Pass the damn ham, Ma’am.” Haha! I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.

    Harper Lee was a libertarian conservative.

    Read Go Set a Watchman, which was the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird. Lee makes clear that she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government, and that coercive government action in general would not solve the problem. GSAW also paints a pretty unflattering picture of Blacks: Lee clearly thinks the problems are partly the fault of Blacks themselves.

    ** SPOILER ALERT **

    There are three main, symapthetic characters in GSAW who express political views: Jean Louise (“Scout”) who is clearly a stand-in for the author, Scout’s Uncle Jack, and, of course, Atticus Finch.

    The supposed conflict in GSAW hinges on Atticus allowing a blatant racist to speak at a meeting of the local Citizens Council (for those too young to have lived through the times, the Citizens Councils were local groups that opposed forced integration of the South).

    But in the resolution, Atticus explains that even jerks are entitled to freedom of speech.

    I’m not just inferring Lee’s political views. She gives both Atticus and Uncle Jack dialogue in which they lay out their Jeffersonian/states-rights/limited-government views.

    And Scout herself states very clearly that she disapproves of the Supreme Court decision (presumably Brown vs. the Board) forcing the South to integrate.

    I.e., the three main characters who express political views in the novel are all libertarian conservatives.

    It’s not hard to see why Lee was pushed to re-write GSAW to produce TKAM: GSAW would not have played well in either North or South — too balanced for either rabid racists or forced integrationists.

    And TKAM is indeed a more readable book, though, arguably, less serious.

    There are also points where GSAW is a bit ham-handed in laying out the author’s political views: for example, Scout pretends to have trouble grasping Atticus’ political views, even though they are essentially her own (and, of course, Harper Lee’s).

    In the end, Scout (and presumably Lee) does want the South to move faster to deal with race than Atticus thinks is feasible. But Atticus’ view is treated as a reasonable concern.

    And Uncle Jack credibly presents the view that the race issue is putting stresses on the American Republic that the Republic cannot survive.

    In short, Go Set a Watchman is a pretty good book, while a bit didactic in overtly pushing a conservative-libertarian viewpoint.

    Why did most of the reviews focus on the issue of Atticus supposedly being a racist? Because the reviewers really, truly cannot read, rather like those who think that Huckleberry Finn is a racist novel (hint to idiots: the only sane person in Huck Finn is the slave Jim — maybe that says something?).

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman, SOL
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @PhysicistDave


    she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government
     
    So her view of the Raw Deal is the opposite of her neighbors' view of the New Deal.
    , @SFG
    @PhysicistDave

    According to the new definition of racism, not working to redress systemic inequities makes you a racist, so anyone to the right of the wine is a racist. Meritocracy is a cover for racism, as is colorblindness. So they are applying the new definition as it is.

  147. @Rosie
    @Anonymous


    It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.
     
    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people's sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, women are well aware that we are physically weaker than you, and we're not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that you have this inexplicable need to humiliate.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Bel Riose

    Rosie wrote to Anonymous:

    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people’s sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?

    Rosie, Anonymous was being facetious. Read again what he wrote:

    Why are you so worked up about this Steve? It is good to eliminate gender barriers in sports. It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    In any case, the solution is to eliminate the whole conceptual framework of gender:”man,” “woman”.

    He would not have made the final comment about eliminating the concept of man and woman had he been serious.

    He’s just pushing the current insanity to its ultimate limit, to point out how insane it is.

    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers. But not in terms of sports that hinge on raw physical strength.

    All sane people know this.

    But a significant fraction of the population today is not (or pretends not to be — I suspect the latter) sane.

    • Agree: Prester John
    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
    @PhysicistDave


    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers.
     
    Link, please.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  148. @PhysicistDave
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed E. Newman wrote:


    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. “Pass the damn ham, Ma’am.” Haha! I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.
     
    Harper Lee was a libertarian conservative.

    Read Go Set a Watchman, which was the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird. Lee makes clear that she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government, and that coercive government action in general would not solve the problem. GSAW also paints a pretty unflattering picture of Blacks: Lee clearly thinks the problems are partly the fault of Blacks themselves.

    ** SPOILER ALERT **

    There are three main, symapthetic characters in GSAW who express political views: Jean Louise ("Scout") who is clearly a stand-in for the author, Scout's Uncle Jack, and, of course, Atticus Finch.

    The supposed conflict in GSAW hinges on Atticus allowing a blatant racist to speak at a meeting of the local Citizens Council (for those too young to have lived through the times, the Citizens Councils were local groups that opposed forced integration of the South).

    But in the resolution, Atticus explains that even jerks are entitled to freedom of speech.

    I'm not just inferring Lee's political views. She gives both Atticus and Uncle Jack dialogue in which they lay out their Jeffersonian/states-rights/limited-government views.

    And Scout herself states very clearly that she disapproves of the Supreme Court decision (presumably Brown vs. the Board) forcing the South to integrate.

    I.e., the three main characters who express political views in the novel are all libertarian conservatives.

    It's not hard to see why Lee was pushed to re-write GSAW to produce TKAM: GSAW would not have played well in either North or South -- too balanced for either rabid racists or forced integrationists.

    And TKAM is indeed a more readable book, though, arguably, less serious.

    There are also points where GSAW is a bit ham-handed in laying out the author's political views: for example, Scout pretends to have trouble grasping Atticus' political views, even though they are essentially her own (and, of course, Harper Lee's).

    In the end, Scout (and presumably Lee) does want the South to move faster to deal with race than Atticus thinks is feasible. But Atticus' view is treated as a reasonable concern.

    And Uncle Jack credibly presents the view that the race issue is putting stresses on the American Republic that the Republic cannot survive.

    In short, Go Set a Watchman is a pretty good book, while a bit didactic in overtly pushing a conservative-libertarian viewpoint.

    Why did most of the reviews focus on the issue of Atticus supposedly being a racist? Because the reviewers really, truly cannot read, rather like those who think that Huckleberry Finn is a racist novel (hint to idiots: the only sane person in Huck Finn is the slave Jim -- maybe that says something?).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SFG

    she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government

    So her view of the Raw Deal is the opposite of her neighbors’ view of the New Deal.

  149. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @J.Ross

    Mr. Ross, have you ever been diagnosed with autism?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I have actually passed through a real multi-day evaluation suffering only the psych accusation of “anxiety.”

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @J.Ross

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68P1O9uOqGU

  150. @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    "This may be the reason homoeroticism carries on genetically. What better way to avoid the natural sex act than by frequent pregnancy?"

    Could you please elaborate?

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Ed Case

    It’s about the sensation of giving birth with [some] lesbians.
    They’ll have kid after kid, but they won’t show them any love.
    Mental problems get passed down to the next generation.

  151. @JackOH
    @J.Ross

    J. Ross, I just heard that, too. I didn't follow Trump's acolytes at all to speak of. Bannon seemed to me the most skin-blisteringly honest man out there telling us the obvious. America's elites don't care a fig about America or Americans. It's all about money and power, and the rest of us are just dunnage.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Yeah, his defense team bet the house on either glory in posterity or sane jurors, they literally didn’t cross or call, and they say they’ll win on appeal. Eric Holder spent like his whole term in DC in “Contempt of Congress.” It’s a fake thing like “negotiating with a foreign power” (which Kerry clearly did in Iran).

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @J.Ross

    Thanks. Bannon seems like a decent, ballsy guy who's willing to stick his neck and his wallet out to do the right thing. I hope he and his family come out of this okay.

    The non-success of his "populist-nationalist" vibe sort of increased my conviction that our Big Capital/Internationalist overlords have done a super bang-up job of turning us all into fungible labor and consumption units. I guess I don't like that much.

  152. @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then. The focus went from armies of men fighting, to dressing up a single man (or a few) with kit items and having them fight each other, rather than setting up entire battles.Boys don't play with toy armies anymore, for the most part.

    I'm not sure what changed, to cause the shift.

    http://www.sierratoysoldier.com/images/newsletter/soldier-header.jpg

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @J.Ross

    I have a set I haven’t painted yet of 90’s Russians squaring off against Chechens. I am toying with the idea of buying one of those sets of extra Risk pieces and very carefully painting one period-appropriate contrast color.

  153. @TelfoedJohn
    @Jonathan Mason

    A good modern kids story would be a tomboy and her gang trying to defeat some evil gender doctor trying to mutilate them. Maybe JK Rowling can write it.

    Replies: @Mike_from_SGV

    Or we could use a new genre of anti-woke horror movies. “HR Convention Chainsaw Massacre”. “D.I.E.”

  154. @syonredux
    People seem rather chuffed over NASA selecting a Latinx immigrant as a flight director:

    When she arrived in the U.S. her goal was “not to starve.”

    Now she’s overseeing
    @NASA
    ’s next trip to the moon.

    Because of the perseverance and ingenuity of immigrants, in our country, the sky is no limit

     

    https://twitter.com/NatImmForum/status/1549789765620342784


    I'm just disappointed that she's so hideously White....

    https://img.youtube.com/vi/vUuUyYqI83Q/maxresdefault.jpg

    Replies: @epebble, @Joe Stalin, @Mike_from_SGV

    NASA is big on diversity-worship, that is primarily why she got the gig. The actual technical work is done by white and asian men.

  155. high IQ masculine men who like to dress up in women’s lingerie and masturbate in front of the mirror

    Steve we don’t need to know everything about you

  156. @PhysicistDave
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed E. Newman wrote:


    Thanks, I really liked the depiction of Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird. “Pass the damn ham, Ma’am.” Haha! I don’t particularly agree with the agenda of that novel, but Harper Lee could really write.
     
    Harper Lee was a libertarian conservative.

    Read Go Set a Watchman, which was the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird. Lee makes clear that she thought Blacks were getting a raw deal but that she also thought that the matter needed to be settled by Southerners themselves, not by the federal government, and that coercive government action in general would not solve the problem. GSAW also paints a pretty unflattering picture of Blacks: Lee clearly thinks the problems are partly the fault of Blacks themselves.

    ** SPOILER ALERT **

    There are three main, symapthetic characters in GSAW who express political views: Jean Louise ("Scout") who is clearly a stand-in for the author, Scout's Uncle Jack, and, of course, Atticus Finch.

    The supposed conflict in GSAW hinges on Atticus allowing a blatant racist to speak at a meeting of the local Citizens Council (for those too young to have lived through the times, the Citizens Councils were local groups that opposed forced integration of the South).

    But in the resolution, Atticus explains that even jerks are entitled to freedom of speech.

    I'm not just inferring Lee's political views. She gives both Atticus and Uncle Jack dialogue in which they lay out their Jeffersonian/states-rights/limited-government views.

    And Scout herself states very clearly that she disapproves of the Supreme Court decision (presumably Brown vs. the Board) forcing the South to integrate.

    I.e., the three main characters who express political views in the novel are all libertarian conservatives.

    It's not hard to see why Lee was pushed to re-write GSAW to produce TKAM: GSAW would not have played well in either North or South -- too balanced for either rabid racists or forced integrationists.

    And TKAM is indeed a more readable book, though, arguably, less serious.

    There are also points where GSAW is a bit ham-handed in laying out the author's political views: for example, Scout pretends to have trouble grasping Atticus' political views, even though they are essentially her own (and, of course, Harper Lee's).

    In the end, Scout (and presumably Lee) does want the South to move faster to deal with race than Atticus thinks is feasible. But Atticus' view is treated as a reasonable concern.

    And Uncle Jack credibly presents the view that the race issue is putting stresses on the American Republic that the Republic cannot survive.

    In short, Go Set a Watchman is a pretty good book, while a bit didactic in overtly pushing a conservative-libertarian viewpoint.

    Why did most of the reviews focus on the issue of Atticus supposedly being a racist? Because the reviewers really, truly cannot read, rather like those who think that Huckleberry Finn is a racist novel (hint to idiots: the only sane person in Huck Finn is the slave Jim -- maybe that says something?).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SFG

    According to the new definition of racism, not working to redress systemic inequities makes you a racist, so anyone to the right of the wine is a racist. Meritocracy is a cover for racism, as is colorblindness. So they are applying the new definition as it is.

  157. @Jonathan Mason
    Indeed. The Famous Five series of 21 books by Enid Blyton were favorite reading of millions of children in post war Britain.

    The stories featured four children and a dog. There were two boys and two girls, but one of the two girls, Georgina, was a tomboy known as George who always dressed as a boy and had boyish interests.

    To the best of my memory this was totally accepted and nobody ever voiced an idea that she was a transsexual.

    To my mind, the character played the two important roles. Firstly she was an embodiment of the authors desire to break free of the restrictions of femininity and let girls have fun, and secondly, since the Famous Five frequently went on camping trips, a second girl was needed to share a tent to keep things decent, and not have a little girl put in a tent on her own.

    In the books George is frequently mistaken for a boy by the villains.

    Anyway, a whole generation of children grew up reading about a tomboy girl and never thought anything of it. After all, it was a story, so there had to be some poetic license. Nobody really believed that four children could go camping on their own for weeks on end, even with a dog to protect them, and assist the police to capture jewel thieves and kidnappers.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @PiltdownMan, @DCThrowback, @TelfoedJohn, @Che Guava

    The series was still popular in Singapore many years later. I think Blyton’s Secret Seven series also had a tomboy character, but not as much of a stand-out as George.

    On the subject, I saw a good French film simply titled Tomboy last year.

    It was made in the last three or so years.

    The good and surprising thing was that, although the protagonist was very serious about being a tomboy, there was absolutely no ‘gender’ message, except that she was a little worried that puberty was about to prevent her passing as a boy.

    The depressing thing was that, AFAIR, she, her parents, and her very girly younger sister were the only French people in the film, even though it is set in France.

    Still, recommended to those who like quiet and slightly melancholy cinema.

  158. @J.Ross
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I have actually passed through a real multi-day evaluation suffering only the psych accusation of "anxiety."

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  159. @epebble
    @syonredux

    Women are doing well at NASA.

    https://women.nasa.gov/

    Replies: @BB753

    Yeah, because NASA is just a front for the industrial -military establishment and DARPA. Not much rocketeering or space exploration going on. Just 20 % of NASA activity has anything to do with space.
    Ask Dennis Bushnell!
    https://www.nasa.gov/content/how-will-we-work-in-2025/

  160. @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You must have lived under a rock. As with everything, there are differences of degree. Think of the field hockey team. (Maybe your school didn't have one.)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack P

    Most certainly had a field hockey team and my sister was on it.

    My office mate of many years played field hockey. She’s a girly-girl by default.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Art Deco

    Hockey is only seen as only a woman's sport in places that like or have ice hockey.

    Which is why men's teams from those places are generally useless.

    Watch some of the men's matches at international games, also 'lympics, it is real, though Pakistanis often lose their tempers, and hit opposing players in the face.

    , @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    The whole point of this thread is that a tomboy is not a lesbian or a tranny, generally. And I think you missed that point.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  161. @Art Deco
    @Hibernian

    Most certainly had a field hockey team and my sister was on it.

    My office mate of many years played field hockey. She's a girly-girl by default.

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Hibernian

    Hockey is only seen as only a woman’s sport in places that like or have ice hockey.

    Which is why men’s teams from those places are generally useless.

    Watch some of the men’s matches at international games, also ‘lympics, it is real, though Pakistanis often lose their tempers, and hit opposing players in the face.

  162. Anon[567] • Disclaimer says:

    Tomboys and the celebration thereof is a slippery slope. You guys ever considered that? You guys are hopeless. In genuine traditional societies with gender-defined roles, are tomboys a thing?

    Considering the pro-tomboy responses of many of you redpilled sorts, including those of you seeing a Jew behind all society’s ills, it seems inevitable we’d end up in the current state of affairs. You guys just want to blame Jews and Blacks for Angloid pathologies.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    "In genuine traditional societies with gender-defined roles, are tomboys a thing?"

    They are in "Little Women," "Little House on the Prairie," and "To Kill a Mockingbird."

    Replies: @Anon

  163. @Reg Cæsar
    @Henry Canaday


    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex?
     
    Who wants to bring up self-mutilation and multiple murder in the confessional? It's easier to avoid it altogether.

    How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?
     
    Likewise, rainbow flags at churches are a Protestant thing. (Reform Jews are essentially Protestants without Jesus. Premessianic Presbyterians.)

    The closest thing to a rainbow church in the large and highly diverse Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis is St Joan of Arc's in the latter city.

    https://www.saintjoanofarc.org/

    (Ever wonder why there is no religious domain suffix analogous to .org, .gov, or .mil?)

    They don't seem to realize-- or, more accurately, care-- that their patroness would have had the lot of them burnt at the stake. Jan Hus was too much for her to take.

    Joan of Arc's Letter to the Hussites

    Could Joan be called a tomboy? (Yet Tom, i.e., Thomas, was a doubter; Joan was anything but.)

    Replies: @Ganderson, @Ed

    St. Joan’s been that way for a long time. I took a girl to mass there back in the early 80’s. Can anyone say “ulterior motive”? Didn’t work, though.

  164. @AceDeuce
    @J.Ross


    This is a really great find, Steve. Penn & Teller once observed (in their great First Amendment sketch) that the one thing totalitarians could not stand was ambiguity.
     
    Ironically, Penn has a young daughter who now claims she's a male, and he has gone full "totalitarian" batschitt crazy in support of her insanity.

    LOL--I kinda like when sneering assholes like him (who is, of course, a very smart guy) who have no respect for anybody or anything--Mister skeptic, hard-edged rational cynic, get tripped up and made to look like a fool over something like pretending their mentally AFU girl is really a boy.

    Replies: @njguy73

    He named that daughter Moxie CrimeFighter Jillette. She wasn’t going to learn to code, or open a yoga studio in a strip mall, or become an accounts payable manager.

    I think celebrities give their kids weird names to ensure that their kids can’t be anything other than kids of celebrities.

  165. All you guys bemoaning the loss of tomboys are cool with girlbosses, right? You sound like a bunch of HRC voters.

    Tomboys are fun, but so is booze and cocaine.

  166. @Hibernian
    @AnotherDad

    Rural/small town girls tend towards tomboyism. I went to college with a lot of them at Iowa State. Environment (post birth) as well as heredity and very early (in the womb) environment.

    Replies: @Rosie, @njguy73

    In the 1930s, six-on-six girls basketball was huge in Iowa. Several books have been written about it. Here’s one.

    https://www.abebooks.com/9780803282995/Dance-Iowa-History-Six-Player-Girls-0803282990/plp

    • Replies: @Jack P
    @njguy73

    The recent ESPN documentary on Title IX was full of leftist propaganda, but some of the history was actually pretty interesting. Apparently in the 1970's, Iowa girls basketball players routinely wore makeup and fixed their hair before games.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  167. @JimDandy
    @Jack D

    Admiral Levine and General Milley were teammates on their high school football team. One opted to become a woman and the other is a barely-closeted mincing fruit.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    That would be Belmont Hill; an all boys prep school. I think the young Romneys went there too.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Ganderson

    Her parents, Melvin and Lillian Levine, were both lawyers.

    So what's going on there? A culture of British-boys-boardingschool-buggery?

    Replies: @Ganderson

  168. @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    The character wasn't dumped, she just faded away. Her chum was Violet. Violet was snobbish, which Lucy was not. She lacked Lucy's alpha characteristics. Both characters antedated Lucy, who was based on Mrs. Schulz. They never entirely disappeared.


    Was Schulz aware of how dykish PP and Marcie came across?

    He wasn't because they didn't and they weren't written that way. That was a retrospective imposition.
    See, for example, this

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080461/

    A cinema feature during which Marcie and Peppermint Patty are competing for the same boy (the running gag being that PP never realizes it's Marcie and only Marcie in which he takes an interest).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @VivaLaMigra

    (the running gag being that PP never realizes it’s Marcie and only Marcie in which [sic] he takes an interest).

    It would be “...in whom he takes an interest….” Are you a “which” or a who/whom? If you’re a human being rather than an animal or an inanimate object, you’re entitled to the latter pair of nominative and objective relative pronouns. If you’re using “which” simply because you don’t know the difference between “who” and “whom” then shame on you. There is just as much of a difference between “who” and “whom” as between “he” and “him” or “she” and “her.”

  169. Thanks for this, Steve. I feel sorry for that girl’s mother, but even more sorry for the girl. Yet another example of the madness within which we have become immersed.

    “How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world…”. Huxley was right.

  170. @Guest007
    @Henry Canaday

    A few links.

    Sidwell Friends

    https://www.sidwell.edu/about/news/news-detail/~board/homepage-news-panel/post/point-of-pride

    “I fully admit I’m learning a lot about things,” Sass says. “Through this group I’m learning about the experience of young trans-people and how we can be more supportive of them. Another thing I’m cognizant of is that the experience of LGBTQIA+ people can vary quite a bit by their socioeconomic status, race, immigrant status, and cultural background. And PA Pride is a great place to learn.”

    Harvard Westlake,

    https://hwchronicle.com/49281/features/transforming-the-policy-students-and-faculty-reflect-on-the-experiences-of-transgender-people-on-campus/

    Uriah Celaya ’18, who identifies as transgender, remembered when his French teacher Simona Ghirlanda asked to talk to him after class. Nervous to speak with her, Celaya tried to recall what he could have done wrong.

    The Dalton School

    https://www.dalton.org/about/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/community-and-commitment

    Spectrum Club
    is a community-wide discussion and support group. The club is a safe space within the Dalton community and provides resources for anyone dealing with the issues that its members target. GLASS attempts, with the help of students and faculty, regardless of sexual orientation, to raise awareness and combat homophobia within the Dalton community and the larger society through discussions, assemblies, speakers, and films. Participating in the club or attending a meeting does not mean that a student or faculty member is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, but a supporter of its mission.

    TheRamaz School (rated number one Jewish private school in NYC.

    https://www.the-rampage.org/5738/features/lgbtq-in-ramaz-and-its-policies/

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.” According to Eshel, some Yeshivot that have a full inclusion policy are: The Frisch School, Shalhevet High School, Ma’ayanot Yeshiva High School for Girls, Beth Tfiloh Dahan Community School, and SAR High School. Other schools have partial inclusion policies, such as Robert M. Beren Academy, DRS – Hebrew Academy of Long Beach, Katz Yeshiva High School, Columbus Torah Academy, and Kohelet Yeshiva High School


    Remember, data and facts are always easier to deal with than memes and tropes.

    Replies: @Ed, @kaganovitch

    These are not catholic schools and are nominally religious. In fact at most of the schools listed the religious affiliation is little more than branding.

    • Replies: @Guest007
    @Ed

    The original comment was about religious and private schools. However, college prep private schools are some of the most progressive out of all schools. If one wants to find a school that does not tolerate homosexual, bi, queer, or trans students, one will have to look at the schools attached to evangelical churches that are non-college prep

  171. Ed says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Henry Canaday


    Is anyone tracking how often students at Catholic or other private schools are mutilating themselves to pretend they are a different sex?
     
    Who wants to bring up self-mutilation and multiple murder in the confessional? It's easier to avoid it altogether.

    How much of this is a public-school thing, like mass shootings?
     
    Likewise, rainbow flags at churches are a Protestant thing. (Reform Jews are essentially Protestants without Jesus. Premessianic Presbyterians.)

    The closest thing to a rainbow church in the large and highly diverse Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis is St Joan of Arc's in the latter city.

    https://www.saintjoanofarc.org/

    (Ever wonder why there is no religious domain suffix analogous to .org, .gov, or .mil?)

    They don't seem to realize-- or, more accurately, care-- that their patroness would have had the lot of them burnt at the stake. Jan Hus was too much for her to take.

    Joan of Arc's Letter to the Hussites

    Could Joan be called a tomboy? (Yet Tom, i.e., Thomas, was a doubter; Joan was anything but.)

    Replies: @Ganderson, @Ed

    I was a member of a wedding party where the service was conducted at a Protestant church in Bethesda, MD. I forget the denomination, the wedding was in April yet the church was plastered with rainbow flags, pics of church staff attending gay pride marches and other gay pride stuff.

    It’s crazy.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Ed

    Mainline congregations are largely social clubs run by late-middle-aged women who make up the church elders and, nowadays, the celebrants as well. If the celebrant is male, he's usually the sort of fellow who has no male friends or the sort of fellow who has scads of male friends (most of whom tend to behave like teenage girls).

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @Ed

    The white liberal protestant crackup before our very eyes.

  172. @Arclight
    @Henry Canaday

    From my personal experience it's overwhelmingly a public school thing. It's also trendy for high schoolers to claim they are bisexual when they are not. To some extent I think it's due to public schools being large enough that even though you are deliberately trying to set yourself apart you will still have some level of support because there will be other kids pulling the same thing. In a smaller school doing this will definitely grab attention but in an isolating way.

    Replies: @Ed

    There’s a tweet going around this week that cites a study that reveals that although young people that identify as lgbt has soared in the past 20 years. The % of young people that claim to have had participated in same sex acts has remained flat.

  173. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

    Autogynephiles are strange and it’s even stranger that you’re not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don’t think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    I agree. Noticing the importance of autogynephilia in late-life M2F transitions is a brilliant observation; however I do not think it has much to do with adolescent F2Ms, except that it prepared the way by promoting transgender ideas in general and made it a career-limiting move not to give trans campaigners everything that they ask for.

    The extinction of tomboys has occurred not only in popular culture, but also among medical professionals who specialise in gender identity:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10231507/NHSs-gender-service-children-believes-girls-dont-like-pink-transgender.html

    Dr David Bell, a consultant psychiatrist who worked at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, which runs the UK’s only gender identity development service for children, has said the department had a ‘rigid, binary construction of gender’.

    And that the service’s ‘only acceptable explanation’ for children who are ‘unwilling or unable to conform to gender stereotypes’ is that they are transgender.

    At the time, he concluded that ‘children’s needs are being met in a woeful, inadequate manner and some will live on with the damaging consequences’.

    Dr Bell described the service’s work as a ‘gateway to puberty blockers’, adding that around 98 per cent of teens who received the treatment later took cross-sex hormones.

    He summarised the service’s ‘construction of gender’ as ‘if you don’t like pink ribbons and dollies you are not really a girl’ and claimed the centre is pushing drugs and even surgery on children as ‘a form of conversion therapy’.

  174. Not at all surprised, it’s clearly just the ‘in’ thing to do. Have some friends with a son that claims he is bisexual even though he has a girlfriend and having known him since he was only a few years old, he’s a totally normal straight young man with typical interests. His mom humors him figuring it’s just a passing phase, but his dad outright calls BS on it. Interestingly, from conversations about other political/current topics, I wouldn’t say this kid could be considered to be on the left on any other issue.

  175. @Ed
    @Guest007

    These are not catholic schools and are nominally religious. In fact at most of the schools listed the religious affiliation is little more than branding.

    Replies: @Guest007

    The original comment was about religious and private schools. However, college prep private schools are some of the most progressive out of all schools. If one wants to find a school that does not tolerate homosexual, bi, queer, or trans students, one will have to look at the schools attached to evangelical churches that are non-college prep

  176. @stillCARealist
    It's not tomboys who are having these problems, it's the mentally ill and confused. Same thing with lesbianism.

    Tomboys just find sports and male activities more appealing. Also the elaborate arts of femininity are too daunting and cumbersome for the active and boisterous girl. Why waste $ on make up when you're saving for new hockey skates?

    Replies: @Jack P

    You’re probably right. Tomboy girls now have tons of sports to play and friends to make in those sports. There are a few high level female athletes who now call themselves “non-binary” or “transgender” (there’s a “non-binary” on the Canadian women’s soccer team), but it’s a tiny number overall. Will that change? Who knows. But it’s possible that your athletic daughter’s teammates form a similar group that can insulate her from suggestions that she’s really a boy.

  177. @PhysicistDave
    @Rosie

    Rosie wrote to Anonymous:


    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people’s sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?
     
    Rosie, Anonymous was being facetious. Read again what he wrote:

    Why are you so worked up about this Steve? It is good to eliminate gender barriers in sports. It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.

    In any case, the solution is to eliminate the whole conceptual framework of gender:”man,” “woman”.
     
    He would not have made the final comment about eliminating the concept of man and woman had he been serious.

    He's just pushing the current insanity to its ultimate limit, to point out how insane it is.

    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers. But not in terms of sports that hinge on raw physical strength.

    All sane people know this.

    But a significant fraction of the population today is not (or pretends not to be -- I suspect the latter) sane.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers.

    Link, please.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Veteran Aryan

    Veteran Aryan wrote to me:



    PhysicistDave: Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers.
     
    Veteran Aryan: Link, please.
     
    Oh, c'mon!

    I know a number of women in the fields of engineering, accounting, and architecture who are above the average in their field.

    Don't you?

    If you don't, you need to get out more and meet the ladies, old fellow!

    Please note that the phrase "can compete with" does not mean "are superior to." It just means that they can hold their own, compete in the field without humiliating themselves.

    E.g., there are guys who "can compete with" Michael Phelps. That does not mean they will win. It means it will be an actual competition.

    If you actually do not know that there really are women who are more than minimally competent in the fields I listed... well, giving you a link would not help.

    There is such a thing as "invincible ignorance."
  178. @Brutusale
    @prosa123

    Yeah, my girlfriend was one of those girls who liked sports. Swimming and volleyball brought her into contact with predatory lesbians, which she didn't enjoy at all.

    Replies: @Truth, @Barnard, @Jack P

    Those aren’t even sports known for having lots of lesbians. As a parent you’d think swimming and volleyball are pretty wholesome.

  179. @Ed
    @Reg Cæsar

    I was a member of a wedding party where the service was conducted at a Protestant church in Bethesda, MD. I forget the denomination, the wedding was in April yet the church was plastered with rainbow flags, pics of church staff attending gay pride marches and other gay pride stuff.

    It’s crazy.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mike_from_SGV

    Mainline congregations are largely social clubs run by late-middle-aged women who make up the church elders and, nowadays, the celebrants as well. If the celebrant is male, he’s usually the sort of fellow who has no male friends or the sort of fellow who has scads of male friends (most of whom tend to behave like teenage girls).

    • Agree: Mike_from_SGV
    • LOL: kaganovitch
  180. @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You must have lived under a rock. As with everything, there are differences of degree. Think of the field hockey team. (Maybe your school didn't have one.)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack P

    My school had a field hockey team. Loved the game days when they wore their skirts to school.

  181. @Emil Nikola Richard
    We still have women tennis pros but it might not be long before every single one of the top ten is going to be a Russian.

    Replies: @Truth, @Muggles

    We still have women tennis pros but it might not be long before every single one of the top ten is going to be a Russian.

    Or a “trans female.”

    If this madness continues it will be rare for a real woman to excel in any competitive sport other than say, gymnastics.

    Some sports federations are waking up to this. The NCAA is now edging around this Woke mania.

    The federal government mandates “equal funding” for collegiate sports for educational institutions which receive federal grants and federal subsidized scholarships. Real women are now pushing back against the “Identity females” who otherwise will crowd them out for top ranks.

    I predict this will soon be before the Supreme Court. The Woke Dems will have to decide between actual feminist equality or Magical Thinking freaks.

    (As an aside, I’m wondering if women’s “movement” groups required their paid employees or volunteers to get the Wuhan flu vax? The “Your Body, Your Life” crowd. Did they apply this slogan to mandatory vaccinations for COVID? Somehow I suspect they did not…)

  182. @Rosie
    @AnotherDad


    And doing–very stereotypical–tedious female finger waging.
     
    Oh, but it is you who are tedious, and apparently incapable of learning how to be civil without a good deal of finger-wagging.

    Normal people get it and don’t have a problem with it.
     
    You are not normal, AD. You are a fist-shaking, irrelevant reactionary who who doesn't understand what normal people do and do not have a problem with. Go pick a random woman off the street and start spouting off your nonsense about loving the outdoors being "male" and note the reaction.

    I suggest your very own neighborhood. Take a look around and you're liable to find a woman working in her garden while her husband and his "useful" farmer genes are sitting on the couch in the AC watching a ballgame of some sort.

    Seriously, I don’t much mind stereotypes, so long as they're accurate or at least plausibly non-retarded. You constantly bang on about how men "built everything." Of course, you have, in the meantime, chopped down innumerable acres of virgin forest and paved over much of the planet in concrete and ugly blacktop parking lots. But please go on and tell me more about men's love of the pristine wilderness.

    Replies: @Bel Riose

    You really are a lunatic.

    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Bel Riose

    You can ignore commenters -- I say that as a guy whose comments ferment over three days and who believes in free speech absolutism. There's commenters I vehemently disagree with but I'd never block them because they produce good content half the time. Recently several commenters I had thought of as trolls proved themselves repeatedly to be producers of good content. And there are some who never have anything to say. Those you can block.

    Replies: @Rosie

  183. @AnotherDad
    @Rosie


    You are part of the problem that the Twitter mom was complaining about, AD.

    You seem to have a need to categorize everything as either “male” or “female” as if nothing, such as a love of the outdoors, can possibly be neutral. Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?
     
    No. I'm not any sort of problem.

    You're just one of those tedious "feminist" cranks who gets all wound up whenever someone makes or uses completely normal, well understood, i.e. stereotypical--categorizations regarding sexual differences. (Racial ones, you're happy with ... sexual ones, Rosie mad!)

    Boys do like to run around outside more. Boys do like to do more physical play--and sports. Doesn't mean those traits are is limited to one sex. AnotherMom likes to camp and hike (more "liked" for the camping). My boy does "get out there" a lot--good chance he's out camping with some buddies now. One my girls also--though to a lesser extent. But if you survey who's jacked up to "get out there" on a given weekend, it will skew male.

    Furthermore, categorization wasn't even the point of the comment. It was that those are particularly useful traits for male side of the "farmer" or "hunter" livelihood so "tomboy" seems to be a kind of goyishe type where those traits are well expressed in a girl. (Which of course does not mean there can't be Jewish outdoor and sports loving tomboys.)

    This is all ho-hum. Normal people get it and don't have a problem with it. You're just a crank. And doing--very stereotypical--tedious female finger waging.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Bel Riose

    Well said, AD.

    Rosie is indeed a feminist crank — one always on the lookout for an opportunity to finger-wag and scold.

    I read your original comment in the spirit with which you undoubtedly intended it to be read. And trust me — so did everyone else here.

    Except for our resident feminist lunatic.

  184. It’s ridiculous that our society used to say to its Peppermint Pattys: “You’re a girl who doesn’t like dolls but likes baseball? Cool.” But now our culture says, “You don’t like dolls? You must have been mis-assigned your gender at birth. You need puberty blockers, testosterone, and, at minimum, top surgery.”

    This is exactly why Second Wave Feminists “attacked” transsexualism; it assumes/reinforces/medicalizes “traditional patriarchal stereotypes”: only girls like dolls/you don’t like dolls/you must be a boy.

    See Janice Raymond: The Transsexual Empire: Creation of the Shemale. (great Roger Corman title).

    Today, women like this, Camille Paglia, or J. K. Rowling are called “TERFs” and cancelled.

    BTW, how is this consistent with “there are more than 2 genders” as well? Yes, I know, the Left cares nought for consistency (a phallocentric White supremacist value)

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  185. @J.Ross
    @JackOH

    Yeah, his defense team bet the house on either glory in posterity or sane jurors, they literally didn't cross or call, and they say they'll win on appeal. Eric Holder spent like his whole term in DC in "Contempt of Congress." It's a fake thing like "negotiating with a foreign power" (which Kerry clearly did in Iran).

    Replies: @JackOH

    Thanks. Bannon seems like a decent, ballsy guy who’s willing to stick his neck and his wallet out to do the right thing. I hope he and his family come out of this okay.

    The non-success of his “populist-nationalist” vibe sort of increased my conviction that our Big Capital/Internationalist overlords have done a super bang-up job of turning us all into fungible labor and consumption units. I guess I don’t like that much.

  186. @Art Deco
    @Hibernian

    Most certainly had a field hockey team and my sister was on it.

    My office mate of many years played field hockey. She's a girly-girl by default.

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Hibernian

    The whole point of this thread is that a tomboy is not a lesbian or a tranny, generally. And I think you missed that point.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Hibernian

    No, you missed my point.

  187. @AnotherDad
    @PiltdownMan


    G.I. Joe, which was introduced when I was in first grade, was quite a departure from the toy soldiers that a few generations of boys played with for the fifty or hundred years before then.
     
    Exactly. Sorry but G.I. Joe was lame and faggy. What normal guy wants to play with a doll--even a soldier doll?

    The tradition is army men--plural--and setting up a battle.

    When I was a kid less than a buck would buy you a bag of 100 soldiers. Our guys--green--had mostly guys carrying or shooting M1s, and some guys with bazookas or prone with a BAR. I know the Germans--gray--had some guys with potato mashers and I'm sure a bunch of other positions that I can't remember.

    Then we'd go to one of the sand piles at the houses being built and build roads, dig tunnels and stage battles. I don't have any of these soldiers now. Though i'm sure I'd find some if I jackhammered through the driveway/patios/basements of houses in my old neighborhood.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    I remember “green army men” as being small and not very stable when you tried to move them around.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Hibernian

    I remember “green army men” as being small and not very stable when you tried to move them around.



    I'm reluctant to speak in praise of 'Perfidious Albion' to a Hibernian but the Brits had us beat all hollow in the toy soldier department. My late aunt, God rest her soul, used to send me toy soldiers from Great Britain and they were orders of magnitude better than the green army men. They had cavalry too, as I recall.

  188. I’ve had a life-long interest in the study done decades ago on the Kennedy clan. The upshot? Children do not compete for social roles and identities in a family (I’m guessing that it would cause too much turmoil). Instead, they choose roles not yet taken.

    There’s a pattern. The first son is usually the “performer”. The second son is usually the “charmer”. The third son has a harder time of it; perhaps he becomes the family “buffoon”, etc.

    This was the case in our family. I was the first-born son … the “performer”. My younger brother folded into the role of the “charmer”. These roles have persisted over decades without change.

    The same pattern was observable in my wife’s family. The first-born son was the “performer”, eventually becoming a VP in a major corporation and the CEO of another. His younger brother was a “charmer” … although at times we thought he confused that with being the family “buffoon”. These roles have persisted over decades without change.

    There is a similar pattern among girls. My mother comes from a family of six girls. The first daughter was “beautiful”. The second was “smart”. The third was “bashful and warm”. The fourth (my mother) was “sickly”. The fifth was “batshit crazy”. The sixth was done with the lot. She became a chronically unhappy feminist and lesbian.

    Other patterns I’ve noticed. When a father doesn’t have a first-born son … or has a first-born son who’s a disappointment, there is a good chance that he will raise a daughter as a performing “son”.

    This happened decades ago to one of my girlfriends. This is also the case for one of our daughters-in-law, who is career oriented in extremis with a senior position in a major IT company. Nonetheless, she eventually had a daughter (one for the experience, I suppose). She insisted that to follow in her mother’s footsteps, all presents for our granddaughter had to be “boy-toys” and all of her clothes had to be “blue”.

    I could go on and on with examples of families and children following similar, predictable patterns in adopting life-long roles. But readers might object that this no longer applies in the “modern” world in which ALL women are encouraged to be “masculinized performers” at the expense of maternal dispositions. Today, anything goes!

    Consider: the craziness associated with the “trans” movement might be the outcome of the lack of meaningful roles for females as today’s families struggle for survival against feminist memes. This long-sought goal of abolishing womanhood was definitively expressed in a recent statement made by Secretary of State Anthony Blinken:

    “The Supreme Court has eliminated an established right [to abortion] that has been an essential component of women’s liberty for half a century – a right that has safeguarded women’s ability to participate fully and equally [qua men] in society.”

    The biggest surprise! Women tolerate this lack of toleration in everything maternal in the face of realizing that, regardless of their efforts, they can never become “men” … as radical feminists so haplessly prove on a daily basis.

  189. @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    The whole point of this thread is that a tomboy is not a lesbian or a tranny, generally. And I think you missed that point.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    No, you missed my point.

  190. @Anon
    Tomboys and the celebration thereof is a slippery slope. You guys ever considered that? You guys are hopeless. In genuine traditional societies with gender-defined roles, are tomboys a thing?

    Considering the pro-tomboy responses of many of you redpilled sorts, including those of you seeing a Jew behind all society's ills, it seems inevitable we'd end up in the current state of affairs. You guys just want to blame Jews and Blacks for Angloid pathologies.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    “In genuine traditional societies with gender-defined roles, are tomboys a thing?”

    They are in “Little Women,” “Little House on the Prairie,” and “To Kill a Mockingbird.”

    • Thanks: Hibernian, S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Louisa M. Alcott and Harper Lee are perfect examples of what I complained of. In fact, I did not include it in my comment but I had Alcott's "Jo" in my head. Other, more traditional societies do not produce such authors or the kind of girl-heroes they wrote about.

    It wasn't inevitable that we would end up where we are at, but there is a through line from Anglo-Saxon bourgeois liberalism (particularly of the Northeastern US variety) to the current zeitgeist. It's the No Country for Old Men line, "if the rule you followed brought you to this..."

    Laura Ingalls Wilder was conflicted, not a strident feminist, but consider the life of her daughter.

    And these ladies have cast a long shadow. Much of current YA and Fantasy is basically tomboy coming of age tales.

    In many situations in which girls want to be one of the guys it was always try hard and tiresome.

    Replies: @Rosie

  191. @Jack D
    Is there any evidence that M to Fs like Admiral Levine are the ones who are pushing girls to become boys? Or it being pushed by a largely female "counseling" industry?

    Autogynephiles are strange and it's even stranger that you're not allowed to mention that this is why they are wearing dresses, but I don't think this has anything to do with those who are pushing little tomboy girls to become boys.

    We lump gays and lesbians together but they don't really have much in common and neither do M to Fs and F to Ms.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost, @DCThrowback, @Chrisnonymous, @Pixo, @West reanimator, @JimDandy, @James N. Kennett, @MEH 0910

  192. @Bel Riose
    @Rosie

    You really are a lunatic.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    You can ignore commenters — I say that as a guy whose comments ferment over three days and who believes in free speech absolutism. There’s commenters I vehemently disagree with but I’d never block them because they produce good content half the time. Recently several commenters I had thought of as trolls proved themselves repeatedly to be producers of good content. And there are some who never have anything to say. Those you can block.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @J.Ross


    There’s commenters I vehemently disagree with but I’d never block them because they produce good content half the time.
     
    Lol my achin' sides. You block me not because I don't have anything worthwhile to say, but because you know perfectly well I am correct and you don't like it, because your agenda here is to spread contempt for women. You miss the good ole days when other commenters would pile on and attempt to bully me off this site, poor baby.
  193. @Rosie
    @Anonymous


    It is good that women lean that they cannot compete with men.
     
    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks this way? What is it that impels you to seek to undermine other people's sense of self-worth? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, women are well aware that we are physically weaker than you, and we're not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that you have this inexplicable need to humiliate.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Bel Riose

    “It is good that women learn that they cannot compete with men.”

    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks to deny this?

    What is it that impels you to seek to undermine science and physical reality, and insist that women are just as capable as men of being police officers, firefighters, Army Rangers, and Navy Seals? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, men are well aware that women are physically weaker than us, and we’re not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that feminists like you have this inexplicable need to put us, our loved ones, and our country at risk by insisting otherwise.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Bel Riose


    What is it that impels you to seek to undermine science and physical reality, and insist that women are just as capable as men of being police officers, firefighters, Army Rangers, and Navy Seals? What do you get out of it?
     
    Are you talking to me personally, because I have never said anything remotely like that ever in my entire life. It appears it is you who are out of touch with reality.
  194. Why has it ever been acceptable for a girl to be a “tomboy?” To me, that’s the female counterpart to a feminine male i.e. a “sissy.” Yet, girls always get a pass with these things. Why? Some people like to even give their daughters boyish nicknames like “Joe” or “Billy.” Why is that cute? We don’t call our sons Dolly or Corina…unless perhaps jokingly.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Chris Young

    Tomboyism is more common among little girls than effeminacy is among little boys and less often linked to adult homosexuality, according to Richard Green's tracking study in the 20th Century.

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

    , @John Johnson
    @Chris Young

    Why has it ever been acceptable for a girl to be a “tomboy?” To me, that’s the female counterpart to a feminine male i.e. a “sissy.” Yet, girls always get a pass with these things. Why? Some people like to even give their daughters boyish nicknames like “Joe” or “Billy.” Why is that cute? We don’t call our sons Dolly or Corina…unless perhaps jokingly.

    Some girls are more interested in boy things. So what? I really don't see the big deal. I used to hang out with a tomboy as a kid and she was a lot of fun. Today she would probably be given hormones for wanting to do boy stuff.

    Gender really isn't what liberals or conservatives want it to be. Some girls want to ride dirtbikes but also put on lipstick. Some boys want to play house but also shoot bb guns.

    Both liberals and conservatives want to put children in neat little boxes. Conservatives want to believe we can turn any girl into a proper young Christian woman and liberals want to believe that tomboys are potential activists that need to be fixed.

  195. @Ed
    @Reg Cæsar

    I was a member of a wedding party where the service was conducted at a Protestant church in Bethesda, MD. I forget the denomination, the wedding was in April yet the church was plastered with rainbow flags, pics of church staff attending gay pride marches and other gay pride stuff.

    It’s crazy.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mike_from_SGV

    The white liberal protestant crackup before our very eyes.

  196. @Chris Young
    Why has it ever been acceptable for a girl to be a "tomboy?" To me, that's the female counterpart to a feminine male i.e. a "sissy." Yet, girls always get a pass with these things. Why? Some people like to even give their daughters boyish nicknames like "Joe" or "Billy." Why is that cute? We don't call our sons Dolly or Corina...unless perhaps jokingly.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @John Johnson

    Tomboyism is more common among little girls than effeminacy is among little boys and less often linked to adult homosexuality, according to Richard Green’s tracking study in the 20th Century.

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
    @Steve Sailer

    So this is the problem with it? That it is more linked to adult homosexuality? So you give a pass to girls being gender non-conforming but not to boys because of how homophobic you are? This is cruel, biased, and stupid. Double-standards never make for coherent moral arguments.

    Replies: @John Johnson

  197. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:

    No, “To Catch a Mockingbird” was that show with Chris “Have a seat” Hansen

  198. @njguy73
    @Hibernian

    In the 1930s, six-on-six girls basketball was huge in Iowa. Several books have been written about it. Here's one.

    https://www.abebooks.com/9780803282995/Dance-Iowa-History-Six-Player-Girls-0803282990/plp

    Replies: @Jack P

    The recent ESPN documentary on Title IX was full of leftist propaganda, but some of the history was actually pretty interesting. Apparently in the 1970’s, Iowa girls basketball players routinely wore makeup and fixed their hair before games.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jack P

    Iowa HS girls in the 1970s played a more feminine version of basketball with 6 players, a little like Australian netball.

    Replies: @Che Guava

  199. I saw my 12 year old niece’s Facebook profile. She looks like a tomboy to me and was doing tomboy activities. I haven’t seen her since she was a baby…she lives far away and I’m not close with my brother. As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Jay Fink

    Jay Fink wrote:


    As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.
     
    Maybe she feels she has to, simply to make clear that she is okay with being a girl.

    Of course, that too is sad, but would not reflect badly on her.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    , @Jack P
    @Jay Fink

    A 12 year old shouldn't be on Facebook at all, let alone using pronouns. If there's a way you can try to reach out to your brother, you should.

  200. @Guest007
    @Henry Canaday

    A few links.

    Sidwell Friends

    https://www.sidwell.edu/about/news/news-detail/~board/homepage-news-panel/post/point-of-pride

    “I fully admit I’m learning a lot about things,” Sass says. “Through this group I’m learning about the experience of young trans-people and how we can be more supportive of them. Another thing I’m cognizant of is that the experience of LGBTQIA+ people can vary quite a bit by their socioeconomic status, race, immigrant status, and cultural background. And PA Pride is a great place to learn.”

    Harvard Westlake,

    https://hwchronicle.com/49281/features/transforming-the-policy-students-and-faculty-reflect-on-the-experiences-of-transgender-people-on-campus/

    Uriah Celaya ’18, who identifies as transgender, remembered when his French teacher Simona Ghirlanda asked to talk to him after class. Nervous to speak with her, Celaya tried to recall what he could have done wrong.

    The Dalton School

    https://www.dalton.org/about/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/community-and-commitment

    Spectrum Club
    is a community-wide discussion and support group. The club is a safe space within the Dalton community and provides resources for anyone dealing with the issues that its members target. GLASS attempts, with the help of students and faculty, regardless of sexual orientation, to raise awareness and combat homophobia within the Dalton community and the larger society through discussions, assemblies, speakers, and films. Participating in the club or attending a meeting does not mean that a student or faculty member is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, but a supporter of its mission.

    TheRamaz School (rated number one Jewish private school in NYC.

    https://www.the-rampage.org/5738/features/lgbtq-in-ramaz-and-its-policies/

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.” According to Eshel, some Yeshivot that have a full inclusion policy are: The Frisch School, Shalhevet High School, Ma’ayanot Yeshiva High School for Girls, Beth Tfiloh Dahan Community School, and SAR High School. Other schools have partial inclusion policies, such as Robert M. Beren Academy, DRS – Hebrew Academy of Long Beach, Katz Yeshiva High School, Columbus Torah Academy, and Kohelet Yeshiva High School


    Remember, data and facts are always easier to deal with than memes and tropes.

    Replies: @Ed, @kaganovitch

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.”

    Speaking of data/facts, you misread that. That is the mission of Eshel (LGBT org.) not of Ramaz School. Per the article Ramaz doesn’t have a formal policy on inclusion yet though they seem to be leaning that way.

    • Replies: @Guest007
    @kaganovitch

    But most of the other Jewish day schools seemed to be very tolerate of all of the alphabet soup of sexual identitites. The original claim was that the LGBT+ was a public school thing which could not be farther from the truth.
    Even Georgetown Visitation in DC seems to be supporting lesbian students.

    https://wtop.com/dc/2019/05/catholic-girls-school-in-dc-adopts-policy-contrary-to-church-teaching/

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  201. @Jack P
    @njguy73

    The recent ESPN documentary on Title IX was full of leftist propaganda, but some of the history was actually pretty interesting. Apparently in the 1970's, Iowa girls basketball players routinely wore makeup and fixed their hair before games.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Iowa HS girls in the 1970s played a more feminine version of basketball with 6 players, a little like Australian netball.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, netball is not Australian. Like so many other sports and games, it is English.

    In Bangkok, I was surprised to see a large sports field filled with netball games, so it is not only popular in former Brit. colonies. Also somewhat popular in Japan.

    This is tangential to the topic, but large and wealthy sporting bodies, N.B.A., soccer, both types of rugby, cricket, baseball, etc., spend a lot of money to eliminate sports designed for and popular for participation by women.

    As only one example of many, I know that many men also play softball, but very few women play baseball. Yet MLB is trying to force the IOC to eliminate women's softball as an Olympic sport.

  202. Growing up, Tomboys had quite a nice vibe, especially to geeks like me. They were far more approachable, and the short hair looked quite attractive.
    Will be a shame if current societal perversions destroy the lives of these girls.

    • Thanks: Rosie
    • Replies: @Jack P
    @Escher

    Plus they tend to clean up well late teens and on. We might need a few more feminine-ish sports. I don't know much about netball, but I like the increasing popularity of beach volleyball. Europe has beach handball, which works too.

  203. @Joe Stalin
    @syonredux

    Getting America to the moon was von Braun's aim when he arrived.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiH-ZTUJ0II

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Getting America to the moon was von Braun’s aim when he arrived.

    And yet without Katherine Johnson he would have been toast. Makes you think.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  204. @Hibernian
    @J.Ross

    Contempt of Congress is a National Sport.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Contempt of Congress is a National Sport.

    Little has changed since Mark Twain wrote “It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.”

    • Thanks: Hibernian
  205. @Hibernian
    @AnotherDad

    I remember "green army men" as being small and not very stable when you tried to move them around.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    I remember “green army men” as being small and not very stable when you tried to move them around.

    I’m reluctant to speak in praise of ‘Perfidious Albion’ to a Hibernian but the Brits had us beat all hollow in the toy soldier department. My late aunt, God rest her soul, used to send me toy soldiers from Great Britain and they were orders of magnitude better than the green army men. They had cavalry too, as I recall.

  206. @Veteran Aryan
    @PhysicistDave


    Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers.
     
    Link, please.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Veteran Aryan wrote to me:

    PhysicistDave: Yes, we all know that women can compete with men in terms of being accountants, chefs, architects, and engineers.

    Veteran Aryan: Link, please.

    Oh, c’mon!

    I know a number of women in the fields of engineering, accounting, and architecture who are above the average in their field.

    Don’t you?

    If you don’t, you need to get out more and meet the ladies, old fellow!

    Please note that the phrase “can compete with” does not mean “are superior to.” It just means that they can hold their own, compete in the field without humiliating themselves.

    E.g., there are guys who “can compete with” Michael Phelps. That does not mean they will win. It means it will be an actual competition.

    If you actually do not know that there really are women who are more than minimally competent in the fields I listed… well, giving you a link would not help.

    There is such a thing as “invincible ignorance.”

  207. @Jay Fink
    I saw my 12 year old niece's Facebook profile. She looks like a tomboy to me and was doing tomboy activities. I haven't seen her since she was a baby...she lives far away and I'm not close with my brother. As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Jack P

    Jay Fink wrote:

    As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.

    Maybe she feels she has to, simply to make clear that she is okay with being a girl.

    Of course, that too is sad, but would not reflect badly on her.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @PhysicistDave

    That's true. It was just the politically correct jargon I didn't like. The she/her was a relief, a lot better than they/them or non-binary. He/him would have been horrifying to see.

  208. @PhysicistDave
    @Jay Fink

    Jay Fink wrote:


    As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.
     
    Maybe she feels she has to, simply to make clear that she is okay with being a girl.

    Of course, that too is sad, but would not reflect badly on her.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    That’s true. It was just the politically correct jargon I didn’t like. The she/her was a relief, a lot better than they/them or non-binary. He/him would have been horrifying to see.

  209. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack P

    Iowa HS girls in the 1970s played a more feminine version of basketball with 6 players, a little like Australian netball.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    Steve, netball is not Australian. Like so many other sports and games, it is English.

    In Bangkok, I was surprised to see a large sports field filled with netball games, so it is not only popular in former Brit. colonies. Also somewhat popular in Japan.

    This is tangential to the topic, but large and wealthy sporting bodies, N.B.A., soccer, both types of rugby, cricket, baseball, etc., spend a lot of money to eliminate sports designed for and popular for participation by women.

    As only one example of many, I know that many men also play softball, but very few women play baseball. Yet MLB is trying to force the IOC to eliminate women’s softball as an Olympic sport.

  210. @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    That would be Belmont Hill; an all boys prep school. I think the young Romneys went there too.

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Her parents, Melvin and Lillian Levine, were both lawyers.

    So what’s going on there? A culture of British-boys-boardingschool-buggery?

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    HER? It’s a bleeping all boys school!

    Replies: @JimDandy

  211. Anon[567] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    "In genuine traditional societies with gender-defined roles, are tomboys a thing?"

    They are in "Little Women," "Little House on the Prairie," and "To Kill a Mockingbird."

    Replies: @Anon

    Louisa M. Alcott and Harper Lee are perfect examples of what I complained of. In fact, I did not include it in my comment but I had Alcott’s “Jo” in my head. Other, more traditional societies do not produce such authors or the kind of girl-heroes they wrote about.

    It wasn’t inevitable that we would end up where we are at, but there is a through line from Anglo-Saxon bourgeois liberalism (particularly of the Northeastern US variety) to the current zeitgeist. It’s the No Country for Old Men line, “if the rule you followed brought you to this…”

    Laura Ingalls Wilder was conflicted, not a strident feminist, but consider the life of her daughter.

    And these ladies have cast a long shadow. Much of current YA and Fantasy is basically tomboy coming of age tales.

    In many situations in which girls want to be one of the guys it was always try hard and tiresome.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Anon


    In many situations in which girls want to be one of the guys it was always try hard and tiresome.
     
    Of course it would appear that way to you because you are ideologically committed to the idea that boys and girls are radically different creatures with little or nothing in common. It is as stupid in its own way as radical blank slate we're-all-the-same-theory.

    My hypothesis: the more different you believe males and females to be, by nature, the dumber you are. I wouldn’t expect a perfect correlation, but certainly a strong one.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49845849_Gender_Nonconformity_Intelligence_and_Sexual_Orientation

    Intelligent men who are contemptuous of women have, I suspect, a strong preference for the girliest girls, who are cute but not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. The unfortunate result is that they think women are frivolous airheads to be avoided as much as possible.
  212. @JimDandy
    @Ganderson

    Her parents, Melvin and Lillian Levine, were both lawyers.

    So what's going on there? A culture of British-boys-boardingschool-buggery?

    Replies: @Ganderson

    HER? It’s a bleeping all boys school!

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Ganderson

    It's a brave new world, G-dawg.

    Replies: @Ganderson

  213. What I have observed about conservative Society and how people behave in general is that there is a much stronger societal prejudice against little boys that are sissies compared to little girls that are tomboys.

    The same conservative parents that are protesting gender-theory and complaining about the media trying to turn their tomboy daughters into boys, and saying that it is ok for them to be tomboys, would *not* find it ok if their sons were sissies.

    Most conservative fathers would be ok if their daughters were tomboys, and some of them would even like it as their daughers could talk sports with them or go to the ball game. But those same consevative fathers would be mortified if their sons wanted to wear dresses, or play wiith dolls.

    Conservative parents of gender non-coforming daughters would encourage their daughters to not transition into boys, true. But they would be accepting of their gender non-conforming daughters. But when it comes to gender non-conforming boys, not only would they not want them to transition, they would *also* want them to act like boys, and force them to. Gender non-cornformity is ok in girl, but parents have a huge, huge problem with gender non-conforming boys. The same parents that are ok with their daughters wearing pants and a baseball cap would never, ever allow their son to wear a dress in public. Ever.

    That’s a double-standard. So there is a strong element of hypocrisy here.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Zero Philosopher

    Coud it be that there's a difference between boys and girls?

  214. @Steve Sailer
    @Chris Young

    Tomboyism is more common among little girls than effeminacy is among little boys and less often linked to adult homosexuality, according to Richard Green's tracking study in the 20th Century.

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

    So this is the problem with it? That it is more linked to adult homosexuality? So you give a pass to girls being gender non-conforming but not to boys because of how homophobic you are? This is cruel, biased, and stupid. Double-standards never make for coherent moral arguments.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Zero Philosopher

    Boys need to be toughed up for their own good. It's a mean world and too many boys are raised by single moms that basically let them grow up to be wimps. It sets them back and makes it harder for them to attract the opposite sex. A lot of White men are having a hard time because they didn't have a dad that toughened them up and taught them discipline.

    But with that said you can only toughen them up so much. If they are show homosexual or feminine tendencies at an early age then you can't turn them into Troy Aikman with the right environment.

    My wife knows someone whose middle boy at 5 wanted a dress and a vacuum for Christmas. Just let it go. There are Christian conservative families that want to normalize these kids but at that level there is nothing that can be done. You can toughen up average boys but that is not average. Finding a balance can be difficult since there are so many conflicting messages. Conservatives believe all boys can be turned into baseball players. Liberals think boys should be turned into gender neutral planet serving egalitarians. Nature shrugs at both and gives children DNA upon conception that can defy both expectations.

  215. @Jay Fink
    I saw my 12 year old niece's Facebook profile. She looks like a tomboy to me and was doing tomboy activities. I haven't seen her since she was a baby...she lives far away and I'm not close with my brother. As masculine as she looked I saw she identified herself as she/her. It made me sad that a member of my family is using those woke gender pronouns, especially at such a young age.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Jack P

    A 12 year old shouldn’t be on Facebook at all, let alone using pronouns. If there’s a way you can try to reach out to your brother, you should.

  216. @Bel Riose
    @Rosie

    "It is good that women learn that they cannot compete with men."

    Seriously, what sort of pathetic, mean-spirited soul thinks to deny this?

    What is it that impels you to seek to undermine science and physical reality, and insist that women are just as capable as men of being police officers, firefighters, Army Rangers, and Navy Seals? What do you get out of it?

    Anyway, men are well aware that women are physically weaker than us, and we’re not particularly bothered by it. Though we are very bothered that feminists like you have this inexplicable need to put us, our loved ones, and our country at risk by insisting otherwise.

    Replies: @Rosie

    What is it that impels you to seek to undermine science and physical reality, and insist that women are just as capable as men of being police officers, firefighters, Army Rangers, and Navy Seals? What do you get out of it?

    Are you talking to me personally, because I have never said anything remotely like that ever in my entire life. It appears it is you who are out of touch with reality.

  217. @J.Ross
    @Bel Riose

    You can ignore commenters -- I say that as a guy whose comments ferment over three days and who believes in free speech absolutism. There's commenters I vehemently disagree with but I'd never block them because they produce good content half the time. Recently several commenters I had thought of as trolls proved themselves repeatedly to be producers of good content. And there are some who never have anything to say. Those you can block.

    Replies: @Rosie

    There’s commenters I vehemently disagree with but I’d never block them because they produce good content half the time.

    Lol my achin’ sides. You block me not because I don’t have anything worthwhile to say, but because you know perfectly well I am correct and you don’t like it, because your agenda here is to spread contempt for women. You miss the good ole days when other commenters would pile on and attempt to bully me off this site, poor baby.

  218. @Escher
    Growing up, Tomboys had quite a nice vibe, especially to geeks like me. They were far more approachable, and the short hair looked quite attractive.
    Will be a shame if current societal perversions destroy the lives of these girls.

    Replies: @Jack P

    Plus they tend to clean up well late teens and on. We might need a few more feminine-ish sports. I don’t know much about netball, but I like the increasing popularity of beach volleyball. Europe has beach handball, which works too.

  219. @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Louisa M. Alcott and Harper Lee are perfect examples of what I complained of. In fact, I did not include it in my comment but I had Alcott's "Jo" in my head. Other, more traditional societies do not produce such authors or the kind of girl-heroes they wrote about.

    It wasn't inevitable that we would end up where we are at, but there is a through line from Anglo-Saxon bourgeois liberalism (particularly of the Northeastern US variety) to the current zeitgeist. It's the No Country for Old Men line, "if the rule you followed brought you to this..."

    Laura Ingalls Wilder was conflicted, not a strident feminist, but consider the life of her daughter.

    And these ladies have cast a long shadow. Much of current YA and Fantasy is basically tomboy coming of age tales.

    In many situations in which girls want to be one of the guys it was always try hard and tiresome.

    Replies: @Rosie

    In many situations in which girls want to be one of the guys it was always try hard and tiresome.

    Of course it would appear that way to you because you are ideologically committed to the idea that boys and girls are radically different creatures with little or nothing in common. It is as stupid in its own way as radical blank slate we’re-all-the-same-theory.

    My hypothesis: the more different you believe males and females to be, by nature, the dumber you are. I wouldn’t expect a perfect correlation, but certainly a strong one.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49845849_Gender_Nonconformity_Intelligence_and_Sexual_Orientation

    Intelligent men who are contemptuous of women have, I suspect, a strong preference for the girliest girls, who are cute but not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. The unfortunate result is that they think women are frivolous airheads to be avoided as much as possible.

  220. @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    HER? It’s a bleeping all boys school!

    Replies: @JimDandy

    It’s a brave new world, G-dawg.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    I know, but I don’t have to like it…

    Replies: @JimDandy

  221. @kaganovitch
    @Guest007

    Their mission “is to create a future for Orthodox lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, and their families.”

    Speaking of data/facts, you misread that. That is the mission of Eshel (LGBT org.) not of Ramaz School. Per the article Ramaz doesn't have a formal policy on inclusion yet though they seem to be leaning that way.

    Replies: @Guest007

    But most of the other Jewish day schools seemed to be very tolerate of all of the alphabet soup of sexual identitites. The original claim was that the LGBT+ was a public school thing which could not be farther from the truth.
    Even Georgetown Visitation in DC seems to be supporting lesbian students.

    https://wtop.com/dc/2019/05/catholic-girls-school-in-dc-adopts-policy-contrary-to-church-teaching/

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Guest007

    I don't disagree with your larger point, just taking issue with your characterization of Ramaz.

  222. @JimDandy
    @Ganderson

    It's a brave new world, G-dawg.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    I know, but I don’t have to like it…

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Ganderson

    Not yet.

  223. @Guest007
    @kaganovitch

    But most of the other Jewish day schools seemed to be very tolerate of all of the alphabet soup of sexual identitites. The original claim was that the LGBT+ was a public school thing which could not be farther from the truth.
    Even Georgetown Visitation in DC seems to be supporting lesbian students.

    https://wtop.com/dc/2019/05/catholic-girls-school-in-dc-adopts-policy-contrary-to-church-teaching/

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    I don’t disagree with your larger point, just taking issue with your characterization of Ramaz.

  224. @Ganderson
    @JimDandy

    I know, but I don’t have to like it…

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Not yet.

  225. @Chris Young
    Why has it ever been acceptable for a girl to be a "tomboy?" To me, that's the female counterpart to a feminine male i.e. a "sissy." Yet, girls always get a pass with these things. Why? Some people like to even give their daughters boyish nicknames like "Joe" or "Billy." Why is that cute? We don't call our sons Dolly or Corina...unless perhaps jokingly.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @John Johnson

    Why has it ever been acceptable for a girl to be a “tomboy?” To me, that’s the female counterpart to a feminine male i.e. a “sissy.” Yet, girls always get a pass with these things. Why? Some people like to even give their daughters boyish nicknames like “Joe” or “Billy.” Why is that cute? We don’t call our sons Dolly or Corina…unless perhaps jokingly.

    Some girls are more interested in boy things. So what? I really don’t see the big deal. I used to hang out with a tomboy as a kid and she was a lot of fun. Today she would probably be given hormones for wanting to do boy stuff.

    Gender really isn’t what liberals or conservatives want it to be. Some girls want to ride dirtbikes but also put on lipstick. Some boys want to play house but also shoot bb guns.

    Both liberals and conservatives want to put children in neat little boxes. Conservatives want to believe we can turn any girl into a proper young Christian woman and liberals want to believe that tomboys are potential activists that need to be fixed.

  226. @Zero Philosopher
    @Steve Sailer

    So this is the problem with it? That it is more linked to adult homosexuality? So you give a pass to girls being gender non-conforming but not to boys because of how homophobic you are? This is cruel, biased, and stupid. Double-standards never make for coherent moral arguments.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Boys need to be toughed up for their own good. It’s a mean world and too many boys are raised by single moms that basically let them grow up to be wimps. It sets them back and makes it harder for them to attract the opposite sex. A lot of White men are having a hard time because they didn’t have a dad that toughened them up and taught them discipline.

    But with that said you can only toughen them up so much. If they are show homosexual or feminine tendencies at an early age then you can’t turn them into Troy Aikman with the right environment.

    My wife knows someone whose middle boy at 5 wanted a dress and a vacuum for Christmas. Just let it go. There are Christian conservative families that want to normalize these kids but at that level there is nothing that can be done. You can toughen up average boys but that is not average. Finding a balance can be difficult since there are so many conflicting messages. Conservatives believe all boys can be turned into baseball players. Liberals think boys should be turned into gender neutral planet serving egalitarians. Nature shrugs at both and gives children DNA upon conception that can defy both expectations.

  227. @Zero Philosopher
    What I have observed about conservative Society and how people behave in general is that there is a much stronger societal prejudice against little boys that are sissies compared to little girls that are tomboys.

    The same conservative parents that are protesting gender-theory and complaining about the media trying to turn their tomboy daughters into boys, and saying that it is ok for them to be tomboys, would *not* find it ok if their sons were sissies.

    Most conservative fathers would be ok if their daughters were tomboys, and some of them would even like it as their daughers could talk sports with them or go to the ball game. But those same consevative fathers would be mortified if their sons wanted to wear dresses, or play wiith dolls.

    Conservative parents of gender non-coforming daughters would encourage their daughters to not transition into boys, true. But they would be accepting of their gender non-conforming daughters. But when it comes to gender non-conforming boys, not only would they not want them to transition, they would *also* want them to act like boys, and force them to. Gender non-cornformity is ok in girl, but parents have a huge, huge problem with gender non-conforming boys. The same parents that are ok with their daughters wearing pants and a baseball cap would never, ever allow their son to wear a dress in public. Ever.

    That's a double-standard. So there is a strong element of hypocrisy here.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Coud it be that there’s a difference between boys and girls?

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