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The Epistemology of 9/11 Narratives
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According to Nielsen, 37.5 million viewers, presumably including the great majority of journalists, watched the second presidential debate between George W. Bush and Al Gore on October 11, 2000 in which Bush denounced the racial profiling of Arab air travelers by airport security trying to prevent skyjackings:

You can see Gore nod at Bush’s anti- Flying While Arab racial profiling ploy with professional respect, “Well played, sir, you bastard.”

This bit immediately followed the highlight of the debate for Bush, when Al Gore brought up James Byrd, the Emmett Till-Rodney King of the era, a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas, in order to promote a Hate Crimes law. Bush responded that the three murderers are going to be executed by the state of Texas so [tiny smirk], he doesn’t see how much more punishment they can be subjected to after they are dead:

And yet, eleven months later, virtually no journalist remembered this moment or connected the dots.

Indeed, the new Bush Administration followed through strongly on the candidate’s promise, appointing Democrat Norman Mineta to be transportation secretary. Mineta repeatedly explained that any heightened scrutiny of Arab air travelers was tantamount to his having been interned in 1942 for being Japanese-American. Mineta launched a well publicized inquiry into racial profiling by disparate impact at the Detroit airport in June 2001. From UPI:

U.S. looks for profiling at airport

UPI ARCHIVES JUNE 5, 2001

ROMULUS, Mich., June 5 — The federal government is investigating complaints that Arab-American airline passengers are unfairly targeted for security screenings at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.

The U.S. Department of Transportation began Monday a three-week survey at Metro Airport to determine whether minority groups are singled out for additional searches of their baggage. …

“While the security procedures are not based on the race, ethnicity, religion or gender of passengers, we also want to assure that in practice, the system does not disproportionately select members of any particular minority group,” said spokesman Norman Mineta.

For at least the last decade, Arab Americans and African Americans have complained that they are unfairly subjected to searches by airport security officers and U.S. Customs agents.

“Airline profiling continues to be a challenge for the Arab-American community,” says Imad Hamad, director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. “We have been witnessing a lot of complaints, and it has been alarming.”

Racial profiling and religious harassment are the most severe forms of discrimination faced by local Arab Americans, according to a recent report released by the Michigan Advisory Committee to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission in the United States. About 200,000 Arab Americans live in Metro Detroit, one of the largest concentrations in the United States.

Researchers in the federal study will collect data such as race, religion, national origin, gender and citizenship of passengers boarding Northwest Airlines flights leaving Metro Airport. The Department of Transportation expects to survey more than 300 flights and about 40,000 passengers through June 29, except Sundays.

Hamad and other Arab-American community leaders are urging members of their community and other minorities to participate in the study.

“Maybe the results … will get officials to wake up and smell the coffee and put an end to this selective treatment of Arab Americans,” Hamad said.

Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

On September 21, 2001, Mineta sent a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from practicing racial profiling; or subjecting Middle Eastern or Muslim passengers to a heightened degree of pre-flight scrutiny. He stated that it was illegal for the airlines to discriminate against passengers based on their race, color, national or ethnic origin or religion. Subsequently, administrative enforcement actions were brought against three different airlines based on alleged contraventions of these rules, resulting in multimillion-dollar settlements. He showed his intention “absolutely not” to implement racial screenings in reply to the question from Steve Kroft on 60 Minutes right after 9-11. He later recalled his decision “was the right thing (and) constitutional”, based on his own experience as one of Japanese-Americans, those who had “lost the most basic human rights” by being discriminated against and interned during the Pacific War.

So too bad for the 3000 and their loved ones, but Mineta lived happily ever after:

The Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport in San Jose was named after him in November 2001 when Mineta was serving as Secretary of Transportation. … He left office as the longest-serving Secretary of Transportation in history.

An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press. Instead, there is an intractably vast abundance of news, countless facts which people can’t be expected to remember unless it fits into a well-worn narrative, usually about who or what is Good and who or what is bad.

For example, if racial profiling pushed by George W. Bush had contributed to 9/11, you’d never ever hear the end of it. After all, we all know, racial profiling is bad and 9/11 was bad, so of course racial profiling caused 9/11. Who could ever forget that?

In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE. Being against racial profiling is good but Bush was bad, so how can you fit the fact that Bush was against racial profiling into your narrative. Further, being against racial profiling is good while 9/11 was bad, so how can bad things flow from good things?

Thus, out of the billions of words written about 9/11, there have been very, very few references to this counter-narrative narrative. If I do a google search for:

bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

I get 12 hits, half of them by me.

 
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  1. I was not aware that James Byrd was a criminal.

    Can you offer some proof of this?

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @anon


    Byrd worked sporadically as a vacuum salesman but struggled with alcoholism, and spent a few years in prison for petty theft.
     
    https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/james-byrd-jr

    A fact not to be found on Wikipedia, evidently. But biography.com isn't exactly The Daily Stormer.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    , @mulga mumblebrain
    @anon

    He was Black, wasn't he?

    , @AceDeuce
    @anon

    He was a convicted felon, and knew at least one of his accused killers from prison.

  2. “Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door.”

    Where else have we seen people double down on being wrong? Hmmmm….

    • Agree: Paul Jolliffe
  3. As soon as bush said Islam means “peace” I knew we were going to take an L on the so called war on terror…….never would have guessed it would be on september eleven …..funny old world .

    • Agree: Malcolm X-Lax
  4. OT: Another Sailer-type MtF is going to enter an MMA competition. This guy also used to be special forces and is only the second ever in professional MMA history after Fallon Fox who beat the ever living shit out of one female opponent. I wonder if history will repeat itself with this fight.

    https://www.outsports.com/platform/amp/2021/9/10/22666320/alana-mclaughlin-celine-provost-mma-combate-global-transgender-athlete-fallon-fox-miami

    Alana McLaughlin’s road to her MMA debut has been a study in patience.

    The South Carolinian was scheduled to fight fellow debutante Celine Provost of France on Combate Global’s Aug. 6 card, making her the first transgender woman to step on the professional MMA stage since Fallon Fox’s last bout seven years ago.

    The 38-year-old steps into competition having battled through growing up young and queer in “the Buckle of the Bible Belt,” as she said during an appearance on The Trans Sporter Room podcast. She also waded through six years in the U.S. Army special forces, including a tour of duty in Afghanistan.

    ‘waded through’. As if people join special forces by accident as if it was foisted upon him. To join special forces during a war is to say at some level ‘Yeah, I don’t like these low chances I have to kill somebody in regular infantry’ as much as it is about anything else.

    It’s almost like these guys are united by personality types low in empathy for others or concern about their opinions, rather like a kind of hyper-masculine psychology rather than a ‘female brain’. It does intrigue me if these guys are more likely to desire to be a woman (Maybe a high sex drive from high testosterone producing more intense paraphilia) or if they’re just the kinds of guys who are likely to not care about what other people think of them or imposing on others. (Like insisting they let be fight women for money)

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Altai

    Would you be willing to guess that hyper-aggressive males, like those in prison for murder or the sadistic killers in special forces, are just crazy maniacs?

    I want to admire intense masculinity, but not mental illness. Where would you go to observe the nice balance between aggression and restraint in a man? Probably not MMA. Those guys, and many of the people watching them, need to find another outlet for their violence that doesn't involve beating someone in the head. God help us that there are "women" who also participate in this.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @Mike Tre
    @Altai

    I perused a couple other articles about this freak, and the references to his "special forces" background are purposely vague. He was a medic and claims to have performed amputations. The Army likes to tout the Rangers as "special forces" if indeed that's the unit he was assigned to, but that's a bit sensational in my observation. He comes across to me a typical army enlistee, meaning unexceptional.

    As to your comment:

    "It’s almost like these guys are united by personality types low in empathy for others or concern about their opinions, rather like a kind of hyper-masculine psychology rather than a ‘female brain’.:

    Really? Because what you just described is exactly what I experience when dealing with female CSR's at the doctor's office, in line to check out at a store, and or at restaurants.


    "It does intrigue me if these guys are more likely to desire to be a woman (Maybe a high sex drive from high testosterone producing more intense paraphilia)"

    You are a very astute commenter here, but this is nonsense. High T men are the men who protect their women from harm, not the other way around. Like I have said before, the vastly larger number of spergs who want to be and attempt to transition into women are never heard about in the news because that doesn't assert the anti (white)masculine narrative being pushed so hard. The media loves pushing the "high T (in white men) bad" meme. High T white men built western civilization and established chivalry, not medium T desk warmers.

    Further, this binary assertion that high T is the sole cause of transsexualism is nonsense. I would assert that high T levels are probably the last thing that lead to transsexualism. Drug abuse, sexual abuse, significant neglect, pathological attention seeking, fashion victimization have much more to do with it.

    Everyday you can find dozens of new videos of black women brawling in stores and schools. You cannot say that about white men. They have vastly less T than white men, and that is pretty strong evidence against the high T = violence myth.

  5. Like Biden, Bush lost patience with us.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous

    Bush and Biden - They hate us for our freedom.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Anonymous


    Like Biden, Bush lost patience with us.
     
    To have patience with the West is old stuff now. The hip stuff is to have patience with the world. One of the most stunning things in this context is how the Bidens became hip. Here you can study how strong narratives are. - And that they are not based on formal logic they have a logic of their own).
  6. At the time, the media reaction to the debates was dominated by the idea that Al Gore was “too aggressive” (argumentative, frequently interrupting Bush) in the first one and “too passive” in the second one. There was virtually no discussion of any of the issues that were actually discussed, although Saturday Night Live did ridicule Gore’s frequent references to a Social Security “lockbox.”

    Incidentally, the USS Cole attack occurred on October 12, 2000. There was a major riot on the West Bank on the same day, so the two incidents got lumped together into the “Middle East in turmoil” category. Osama bin Laden’s name appeared frequently in the news over the next few days, but he remained obscure to most Americans until 9/11.

    His name first came to widespread public attention in the United States following the embassy bombings in Africa in August 1998. This attack prompted the Wag the Dog-esque airstrikes in Afghanistan and Sudan just three days after Bill Clinton admitted that he had an “inappropriate” (but technically non-sexual) relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

    There’s a funny clip of Clinton pronouncing “Usama” bin Laden’s name as You-sah-ma bin Lay-den.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    @Stan Adams

    Back in February of 1993 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (still languishing in Gitmo) financed an attempt to TOPPLE one of the towers. Mercifully the attempt failed. Eight years or so later the same crowd finished the job, this time by hijacking passenger aircraft and making like kamikaze pilots. By then Bill Clinton, who had just assumed office a month prior to the first attack, was gone. Leaving aside the controversies surrounding what was actually done, it was left up to the Bush administration to take action on the domestic front--which was something that should have been done eight years before.

    The failure of the Clinton administration to take some kind of action after the first attack remains the single greatest failure of his administration.

    Replies: @epebble

  7. To misquote Conquest, the simplest explanation is that our government is run by a cabal of our enemies.

    Bush spent 8 years trying to peal off a few female Democrat votes, or maybe he just was that wet naturally.

  8. And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I’d estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I’ve found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World’s Worst Guests.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    the World’s Worst Guests
     
    Interestingly, I believe Osama bin Laden was actually asked to leave Afghanistan - or could have been - because he arguably broke hospitality rules by making trouble for his hosts. (Not that he really did, but whatever).
    , @Benny Meyer
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Uh do you know how bad white supremacy can harm a Person of Color and make them defend theyselves in even odd ways?

    People of Color are tired and are through being accommodating

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQ1v1AxHKc

    Watch the very end to see how strong the ally ship is.

    Replies: @Polistra

    , @Change that Matters
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Second paragraph is spot on.

    , @Abolish_public_education
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I was only half paying attention to the TV, but the reporter narrated something about how great it was that some marooned Americans had finally gotten out of Afghanistan. The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase.

    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California's favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.

    Replies: @Thea, @AceDeuce

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    ... they are the World’s Worst Guests.
     
    At least since Egil gouged out Armod's eye.

    https://sacred-texts.com/neu/egil/egil75.htm
    https://sacred-texts.com/neu/egil/egil76.htm
    , @Deadite
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    After 911 I expected immigration to tighten up. It never did. Instead Bush expanded it more than Clinton had (I now think of Clinton as slightly better than Bush, but only because he had Newt to work with).

    I also expected heads to roll. Anyone remember how Bush promoted Tenant instead of canning his ass?

    The deep state was in operation even then.

  9. I get 12 hits, half of them by me.

    Hey, you shouldn’t Google yourself. Someone might think you’re up to something.

  10. What was the declared motive for those white supremacists who murdered James Byrd? I just looked at the wikipedia page for the murder, but couldn’t see anything about motive. Why did James Byrd accept a ride from these flamboyant white supremacists, whose racial views were literally tattooed all over their bodies? Was it really just another drug deal gone bad? Pure hatred for the color of Byrd’s skin (that’s the conclusion you’d have to draw from the wikipedia page)? One of the murderers, who was eventually executed by the state, claimed to have been repeatedly raped by Blacks in jail before the murder, so, was it revenge for those rapes? You write that James Byrd was a criminal, but that information is not on the wikipedia page for his murder. What sort of criminal was he, and is there a better source of information about him and his murder than wikipedia?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Byrd’s murder was in every newspaper and TV news program for months after the murder. Again and again it was stated and confirmed that Byrd and his murderers had been in the same state prison for years. And all knew each other. Only felons, not misdeamants are sent to state prison.

    Since Byrd was in state prison he was a felon.

    Every time an ignorant MAN OF UNZ cites wikepedia the more contempt and disdain I have for him.

    At least the MSM reported the truth that James Byrd was a career criminal at the time of his death.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    , @Anonymous
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Yeah, I remember that. Apparently one of the murderers knew Byrd in prison and this was payback for something or other.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    , @AceDeuce
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Here's the testimony of one of the draggers of the nagger: (Funny, I remember it from back then but it's been memory holed. Wonder why?

    https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1999/09/18/defendant-says-friend-killed-dragging-victim/


    Lawrence Russell Brewer took the stand in his own defense Friday and blamed the brutal dragging death of a black man on a co-defendant. Sobbing, the former leader of a racist prison gang told the jury: "I didn't mean to cause his death."

    It was the first testimony by one of the three men charged with killing James Byrd Jr.

    Brewer admitted he was in the pickup truck with co-defendants Shawn Berry and John William King when Byrd was dragged to his death in June 1998. But he said it was Berry who slashed Byrd's throat, then chained him to the back of the truck and dragged him for three miles along a bumpy country road, shredding and dismembering his body.

    (SNIP)

    As the defense began its case Friday, Brewer, 32, testified that Byrd was riding with the three defendants in the pickup when Berry stopped to take some steroids. King lit a cigarette, he said, and Byrd walked around the truck and said, "Let me smoke with you white boys."

    Next, Brewer said, he heard some glass break and saw King and Byrd fighting.

    "I don't know what to do," Brewer testified. "When I go around the corner of the truck, I tried to kick Byrd in his side."

    Brewer said he tried to break it up. "That's when I heard snapping of Shawn's knife. He popped it open . . . Shawn came around and I guess cut his (Byrd's) throat.
     

    Funny, the nigro, who was drunk and, according to his family, an aggressive drunk, goes up to three White ex-cons, tough guys who hated nigros, and called them "White boys".

    If a drunk White Man called three nigbo the "N" word, I wonder if anyone would care if he was killed.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

  11. One thing that Mineta did notice was that Dick Cheney didn’t want the airliner approaching the Pentagon to be shot down.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Trelane

    Steve doesn't notice things like that.

  12. I left off the last two words and found this from the 2004 election:
    https://spectator.org/49691_bush-black-and-white/

    [MORE]

    As pictures of the 19 hijackers flashed across the screen, the tape would play: “Arab Americans are racially profiled in what’s called secret evidence,” swing voters would hear Bush say. “People are stopped. And we’ve got to do something about that.” Another commercial could question the Bush-endorsed post-September 11 policy over at the FBI that emphatically denied that they would look for “individuals of any particular religion or from any particular country.”

    Fortunately for Republicans, Democrats would never dare stalk such a sacred cow….

  13. Via Steve’s Twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1436409650451304450

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    Message below:

    Running the Option
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    You Really Don’t Want to Get Ventilated
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    Your Odds …
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 15, 2020

    The Parking Lot Solution
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 12, 2020

    —————————————————

    STRATEGY: SINO CAVITATION

    WINNER: U.S.

    • Thanks: Thea
    • Replies: @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid
     
    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge -- if you don't know what that looks like you weren't a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @El Dato, @dearieme, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican



    Still don’t really understand why we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid.
     
    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    Nonsense. Yglesias is an idiot. More people died from cancer in 1941 then at Pearl Harbor, but that didn't mean the reaction to Pearl Harbor was an overreaction.

    And, no, we haven't underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    Replies: @El Dato, @J.Ross, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @Feryl
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Actually the "under-reacted" part pertains to the fact that the virus originated from a lab doing "novel" research. Said lab is associated with both America and China*, and Fauci has close ties to said lab. A cover up, no accountability, and even the media and tech companies suppressed knowledge of the lab.

    The very elites who caused this mess now have an excuse for a "reset" involving creeping crypto commie social engineering (meanwhile we can't secure helicopters in Afghanistan** and can't secure the Mexican border).

    *I'm beginning to think a good chunk or "our" leaders are China symps.
    **Is Biden, a Clintonite figure of the neo-lib era when we sold out to China, intentionally fubaring our foreign policy to benefit China?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

  14. I believe, sure as I’m sittin’ here, that most Americans really care. They’re tolerant people. They’re good, tolerant people. It’s the very few that create most of the crises, and we just have to find them and deal with them.

    I wonder what George Bush meant by this?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    "I wonder what George Bush meant by this?"

    Bush II was an underachieving alcoholic before he became the PNAC puppet. He is quite sensitive and emotional and probably was the victim of some kind of abuse when he was a child. He has a tendency to be unguarded in his words and facial expressions.

    "It's the very few that create most of the crises"

    He was projecting here; he was speaking about his family and the elite networks that surrounded him. Bush II's mother, America's Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley. Knowing what he came from, I had some sympathy for Bush II.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @Anonymous

  15. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    the World’s Worst Guests

    Interestingly, I believe Osama bin Laden was actually asked to leave Afghanistan – or could have been – because he arguably broke hospitality rules by making trouble for his hosts. (Not that he really did, but whatever).

  16. Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off…

    Camels and tents come to mind, but then, only the camel wants the camel in the tent. He also sees what you’re eating, and wants some of that.

    Oh, and call Prof. Harden. HBD has slipped into National Geographic’s Almanac 2020, in a chapter titled “The Science of Us”:

    “Culture does not make people. People make culture.” —Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (p. 253)

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  17. Steve, of course you are right about the righteousness of non-profiling.

    But if you read the articles of our host, Ron Unz, you may hesitate in blaming the 19 Arab hijackers for all 3000 deaths. They can fairly be held responsible for the deaths of the passengers and crew of the planes they hijacked as well as people on the floos of the buildings that were struck – a few hundred people. But could some other party be responsible for the other deaths? Perhaps this other party should be held responsible for all the deaths and even facilitated the hijackings partly through a policy of non-profiling?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Balaji


    you may hesitate in blaming the 19 Arab hijackers for all 3000 deaths. They can fairly be held responsible for the deaths of the passengers and crew of the planes they hijacked
     
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Do you blame Waleed Al Shehri who the FBI named as one of the Hijackers?

    Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

    The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

    Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

     

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm


    Or does he, like the other three, get a pass for doing a great Lazarus act?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
  18. The REAL REASON that 9/11 happened.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/09/bush-administration-ignored-september-11-warnings.html

    More Evidence Indicates the Bush Administration Ignored September 11 Warnings

    In a New York Times op-ed, reporter Kurt Eichenwald writes of the presidential briefings that came before the well-known August 6 warning “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.,” concluding that “the administration’s reaction to what Mr. Bush was told in the weeks before that infamous briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed.” That included a warning from the CIA on May 1 that “a group presently in the United States” was planning to strike and one on June 22 that an attack could be “imminent.”

    As the 9/11 Commission noted, “There were more than 40 intelligence articles in the PDBS [Presidential Daily Briefings] from January 21 to September 11 that related to Bin Laden.” In a section of the report called “The Drumbeat Begins,” the Commission highlights a late June briefing that alerts to the “high probability of near-term ‘spectacular’ terrorist attacks resulting in numerous casualties … including a ‘severe blow’ against U.S. and Israeli ‘interests’ during the next two weeks.” But whereas the Commission report describes the threat of attacks worldwide, Eichenwald’s exclusive intel specifically cites a domestic threat, one with “dramatic consequences.”

    However, as Eichenwald writes, the administration was much more concerned with Iraq:

    See the below video.

    “500 Days”: Author Kurt Eichenwald’s New Book on How Bush Admin Ignored Warnings Before 9/11

    TLDR: 9/11 primarily happened to the incompetence, laziness, and irresponsibility of Bush and his administration members.

    • Agree: JerseyJeffersonian
  19. This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel’s Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.

    Or is the narrative now that the 9/11 hijackers, while Arab (15 of the 19 were Saudi), were all on Mossad’s payroll?

    Hats off to Ron Unz. He is a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew*, as demonstrated by his ability to have this website broadcast multiple contradictory narratives at once in a manner far more systematic than merely an ‘unorganized spectrum of opinions’. The WN groups that hate Jews have been thoroughly confused and conquered by RUnzie Baby.

    *That is a specific type of Jew, ya know. A Confuse and Conquer Jew.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Thomm

    That's because you are assuming there you will only find a single "narrative" at Unz or that event X may only fit into a single one.

    Meanwhile you can probably find about a dozen different narratives in the bookstore.

    Today, there is an article at RT.com bemoaning that the TLAs didn't inflitrate Bin Laden's outfit harder ( 9/11: The spies inside Al-Qaeda who could have prevented the attacks) mentioning people I have never heard of, which is in contradiction with the narrative that Bin Laden didn't do it, while Peter Lance wrote whole books about how Bin Laden had infilitrated the CIA, but linking events to 9/11 that go from interesting - infighting in the NY FBI trying to cover up the story of gay 'mafia cleaner' boffing his FBI handler - to the frankly bizarre - Terry Nichols building the first bomb for the '96 WTC attack or TWA 800 actually brought down by a bomb.

    You are supposed to handle that. Level up!

    , @Ed Case
    @Thomm

    The narrative is:
    There were no planes, no Arabs, no hijackings, and 3 buildings in Manhattan were demoed by pros while people were still inside 2 of the buildings.
    It appears the most reasonable conclusion, all the other theories require magical thinking.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Thomm

    , @Sean
    @Thomm


    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel’s Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.
     
    Be that as it may, or may not, the official narrative has Saudis led by bin Laden doing 9/11. So Steve has an excellent point inasmuch why is their no memory among the public that Bush opposed airport security paying close attention to Arabs?

    On the other hand, his father when president received an 89% approval rating, the highest presidential job approval rating ever, after the war to expel Saddam's forces from Kuwait. I think Bush the younger's approval rating was affected by a perception that 9/11 happening showed he had not done a great job. The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Colin Wright

  20. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    Uh do you know how bad white supremacy can harm a Person of Color and make them defend theyselves in even odd ways?

    People of Color are tired and are through being accommodating

    Watch the very end to see how strong the ally ship is.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Benny Meyer

    https://i.ibb.co/8K6V12s/Screenshot-20210819-195405-NYPost.jpg

  21. Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

    On September 21, 2001, Mineta sent a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from practicing racial profiling; or subjecting Middle Eastern or Muslim passengers to a heightened degree of pre-flight scrutiny. He stated that it was illegal for the airlines to discriminate against passengers based on their race, color, national or ethnic origin or religion. Subsequently, administrative enforcement actions were brought against three different airlines based on alleged contraventions of these rules, resulting in multimillion-dollar settlements.

    In the spirit clarity, maybe it is best if rather than referring to “Democrat Norman Mineta, longest serving Secretary of Transportation”, we simply refer to him as “unindicted terrorism conspirator Noman Mineta”.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Almost Missouri

    “In the spirit clarity, maybe it is best if rather than referring to “Democrat Norman Mineta, longest serving Secretary of Transportation”, we simply refer to him as “unindicted terrorism conspirator Noman Mineta”.

    No, that would not compute. You must relish narrative spin as much as iSteve.

  22. bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    It may be better to target Muslim Aliens rather than Arab-Americans while profiling for terrorists. I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists). I sure hope if we have a problem with an African, Asian or Hispanic nation/Non-State Actor someday, we will not racially profile African-Americans, Asian-Americans or Hispanic-Americans but do profile African-Aliens, Asian-Aliens and Hispanic-Aliens.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @epebble


    I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists
     
    Maj. Nidal Hasan was born in the USA.  But other than that, you appear to be right; the major cases are of Pakistani and Afghan descent.  (One more reason not to accept even ONE Afghan "refugee".)
    , @gandydancer
    @epebble


    I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists).
     
    I am. Particularly, as is usual with most crime, if you don't inflate the total of the category "Americans" with blacks.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  23. Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

    So too bad for the 3000 and their loved ones, but Mineta lived happily ever after:

    Have there been any major domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11?

    The primary reason for the 9/11 attacks wasn’t PC and lack of racial profiling. If that was the main issue, we would’ve experienced more attacks in the last two decades (during which PC and anti-profiling has been quite strong).

    The primary reason for 9/11 was that Bush (and the rest of his administration) was lazy, stupid, and feckless. When Bush was elected in 2000, Democrats said he was too stupid to be president…. and they were proven right various times from the beginning of the Bush administration (9/11) through the middle (Iraq, Katrina) and through the end (the 2008 financial collapse).

    When seen from that perspective, 9/11 was just one of many of Bush’s blunders. Yet instead of offering critical coverage, our media fawned over the man up through 2005 (Hurricane Katrina). That was the first time when he faced any significant hostile media. Our media revealed themselves to be nothing more than sycophants. We used to criticize the Soviet Union for their “state-owned media,” but the U.S. media transformed into something akin to that during the Bush administration.

    While I’m no fan of Clinton-Gore, electing Al Gore was the responsible decision in 2000. Voting for Bush shows us how retarded American voters can be at times. It’s unfortunate, but the public was dimwitted to vote for a man of limited IQ and even more limited work ethic.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @JohnnyWalker123


    ...electing Al Gore was the responsible decision in 2000.
     
    You are a loon. Nominating Bush was a bad decision, but electing Gore was no cure for that. Trump was pretty crappy, too, but Biden't was similarly not the cure.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyWalker123


    for a man of limited IQ
     
    Bush was smarter than Gore or Kerry.

    ...and even more limited work ethic.
     
    The last thing I want in a president is work ethic. Obama spent far too little time on the links.
  24. The number of Saudi students coming here actually rose in 2002 and the next few years. They couldn’t have just reduced it for one year for show even.

  25. It’s amazing that this material is out there and yet you got only those 12 hits and 1/2 by you. (Were the other 6 Ann Coulter?) Americans have extremely poor political memories, as they just don’t want to have to pay attention to any of this. Witness Joe Biden in the Presidency – I truly though when the press (back when they weren’t COMPLETELY 1-sided) reported on his blatant plagiarism, that that was the end of at least one dumbass D’s career. Nope.

    Maybe google was just “having a hard time” with this search.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah... anyone remember Saddam's Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  26. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    Second paragraph is spot on.

    • Agree: bomag
  27. Arab hijackers or no Arab hijackers, the World Trade Center towers(1,2 and 7) were blown-up.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Thanks: utu
    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  28. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1436409650451304450

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    Message below:

    Running the Option
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    You Really Don't Want to Get Ventilated
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    Your Odds ...
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 15, 2020

    The Parking Lot Solution
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 12, 2020

    —————————————————

    STRATEGY: SINO CAVITATION

    WINNER: U.S.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FickleImpassionedAmericancrayfish-max-1mb.gif

    Replies: @Cato, @gandydancer, @Feryl

    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid

    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge — if you don’t know what that looks like you weren’t a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan, Escher
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Cato

    "We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house."

    I remember disinfecting every switch in the house, from lights to cooker. Then every tap. Early days, precautionary principle. I have sufficient disposable plastic gloves to last for a few years. Now used for painting, car work etc.

    Replies: @Cato

    , @El Dato
    @Cato


    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.
     
    It feels like that, but it's more an effect of being hit with something new while being in ignorance of what it actually is.



    If the delta had come full out immediately, hospitals would have been a scene out of "Outbreak" even before everyone had set up the audio system for the politician, had found sources of PPE and jotted down "tricks that will work and not kill the patient outright".

    lucky_lucky_anime_girl.jpg

    But ignorance continues, we don't know half of anything.

    Data: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34438440/#affiliation-3

    Population susceptibility at [2020]'s end was 69.0% (63.6 - 75.4%), indicating that roughly one third of the US population had been infected. Community infectious rates, the percentage of people harbouring a contagious infection, rose above 0.8% (0.6 - 1.0%) before the end of the year, and were as high as 2.4% in some major metropolitan areas. In contrast, the infection fatality rate fell to 0.3% by year's end.
     
    This is for the US. Latest IFR estimate at 0.3% ... "worse than expected at the start of the pandemic".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwL3rkTDpXM

    A quick shufti brings up these numbers for Germany Estimating effective infection fatality rates during the course of the COVID-19 pandemic in Germany, June 21, 2021:

    The risk of death among persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is estimated to increase substantially with increasing age by each of the four considered studies, which is also supported by the number of observed deaths per age group in Germany. However, estimates from the literature show larger discrepancies; as for example in age group 80+, the IFR estimate from [12] is given by 5.60% [4.30%; 7.40%], while the corresponding IFR estimate from [6] is as large as 15.61% [12.20%; 19.50%]. On the other hand, for the age group 60-79 the IFR estimate from [5] is approximately 1%, while the other studies yield larger estimates for this age group ranging from 2.49% in [6] to 3.89% in [12]. Furthermore, Table 1 gives estimates of resulting population-averaged infection fatality rates for Germany, which are derived under the assumption that the risk of infection with SARS-CoV-2 is independent of age and time (see assumption (a)). Population-averaged estimates for Germany range from 0.756% [0.717%; 0.796%] by [5] to 1.687% [1.407%; 2.139%] by [6], reflecting the uncertainty regarding age-specific IFR.
     
    , @dearieme
    @Cato

    When did you start taking Vitamin D and zinc?

    Replies: @Cato

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cato


    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household.
     
    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    Replies: @Cato

  29. 9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged “War on Terror” (which continues through today). This “War on Terror” has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush’s Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America’s population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties

    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.

    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That’s ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion

    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. “War on Terror” has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly “People of Color.” Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren’t American civilians, but all the foreigners who’ve been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending “War on Terror.”

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566

    “This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog,” the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: “This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq.”

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I was speaking out against any war in Iraq from more than a year before and a long war in Afghanistan from 9/26/2001. But ... the Lancet was faked. There is no way that hired Iraqi researchers went door to door in randomly chosen neighborhoods in Iraq in 2006 and asked prying questions. That was a good way to get a hole drilled in your head in 2006:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/updated-depressing-news-of-day/

    "The more I think about the mechanics of carrying out the survey on the street without getting killed, the more I suspect that the Iraqi interviewers didn’t actually implement the purely random survey design that the American professors from MIT and Johns Hopkins dreamed up for them. It would be nuts to to let luck determine which streets you’d choose, as the report claims they did. You’d want to only go where you knew you’d be safe. Then you’d tell the Americans you did exactly what they told you to do."

    Replies: @El Dato, @Corvinus, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @Uncle Dan
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “estimated”

    Replies: @gandydancer, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @J.Ross
    @JohnnyWalker123

    We normally say that murder numbers are gold because you can't fake a body, but this atrocious estimating is a case of deaths not borne out by a pound of flesh.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @Anonymous
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia and Afghanistan are pretty much the worse places on earth, but you cannot blame all of that on the War on Terror.

    Libya should be blamed on the War on Libya. Totally different war!

    Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia are partially war on terror, partially on their utterly insane population and a good chunk on Islam.

    Iraq and Syria, part war on terror, part British and French foreign offices after WW1. They are artificial entities entirely. They were never going to work. Not when minority tribal groups ran them. Sooner or later, an attempted near genocidal war was coming.

    Replies: @mulga mumblebrain

    , @HammerJack
    @JohnnyWalker123


    That’s ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.
     
    We'd probably have to borrow some money.
    , @gandydancer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That's an immense wall of crap. More Japs died after Pearl Harbor than Americans. More Germans, too. We're supposed to feel bad about that?

    , @Colin Wright
    @JohnnyWalker123

    '...According to the Lancet study...'

    But The Lancet has no credibility.

  30. In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE.

    Western morality says you are Good if you achieve good ends with good motivation. (Mother Theresa) Conversely, you are Evil if you do bad things with bad intent. (Hitler)

    But the other two cases that make up most of reality just confuse people: I.e., achieving good things with “bad” motivations (e.g. the incedible advances wrought by “greedy” capitalists); and doing harm with good intentions (e.g. missionaries spreading smallpox or most do-gooder social engineering projects).

    People are designed to understand the world in terms of morality tales in which good/bad and cause/effect are aligned. They work hard to confirm reality into these templates. But if they can’t, they tend to just ignore the facts that won’t fit.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous, AceDeuce
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Hypnotoad666

    Strong heuristics.

    People can barely suss out why the milk isn't in the fridge drawer today. This will stay so - "make sense of" algorithms generally take exponential time in the number of variables and large amounts of short-term memory - if you succeed in specifying what a solution even looks like. We have barely moved into formalizing causality.

    Baconian method are other heuristics, which leads us to the deliciousy named "Baconian Probabilities" (Measuring Assurance Case Confidence using Baconian Probabilities), which are not probabilities. Anyway, something that is good to know exists.

    From Wikipedia, Bacon has this to caution about:

    - Idols of the Tribe (Idola tribus): This is humans' tendency to perceive more order and regularity in systems than truly exists, and is due to people following their preconceived ideas about things.

    - Idols of the Cave (Idola specus): This is due to individuals' personal weaknesses in reasoning due to particular personalities, likes and dislikes.

    - Idols of the Marketplace (Idola fori): This is due to confusion in the use of language and taking some words in science to have a different meaning than their common usage.

    - Idols of the Theatre (Idola theatri): This is the following of academic dogma and not asking questions about the world.

    More on this here.

    Everything is better with Bacon and Bayes.

  31. The vast majority of people are incapable of assimilating info unless it’s presented to them in a Narrative Approved News article or TV News expose.

    Most folk are incapable of critical thought. Doing this sort of research and drawing their own conclusions is scary and weird to them.

    Careful there Steve, that’s dangerous thinking you’re a doin’. Best to let the experts tells us what to think.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
  32. Well, there are lots of ultra-bizarre tidbits about 9/11, from apparently unusual “mafia murders” of people who might have seen something, to “Israeli art students” apparently doing a “hush hush art project” photographed in WTC with ceiling panels removed and boxes of what might be explosive cord stacked to the ceiling to (apparently only marginally unusual) stock movement regarding airlines on that very day. And then there are those excessively numeros NORAD manoeuvers coincidentally happening on 9/11. Then there was the side of the Pentagon that was hit having been reinforced recently. Plus the fact that 9/11 took place coincidentally on 9-11. Then the destruction of any dot-connecting evidence in the military prior to 9/11, etc. etc.

    Do these point to some big item conspiracy or just pure chance events made significant through the look-elsewhere effect?

    On September 21, 2001, Mineta sent a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from practicing racial profiling; or subjecting Middle Eastern or Muslim passengers to a heightened degree of pre-flight scrutiny.

    If that rank psychotic decision had been made on September 1st for some reason, bricks would have been shat. Or more probably it might have been studiously ignored by MSM but shown as extremely relevant by “truthers”.

    Foucault’s Pendulum indeed.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @El Dato

    Yeah, I remember an unusual amount of military air activity over my hometown (several waves of fighter jets doing obnoxious low-flying maneuvers from afternoon until twilight) on 9/10/01. There was an NAS base like 20-30 miles away. The loud engines somewhat disrupted “meet the teacher night” for about 15 minutes, and I went outside to watch the jets with my sister and some other kids. The next day when my Math teacher flipped on the tv to show us the events, after being annoyed by the dumb kids in my class laughing because they didn’t get what was going on, I immediately thought about the previous night’s jets. I was too young to consider my observation remotely suspicious or sinister, but I still recognized the coincidence.

  33. @Achmed E. Newman
    It's amazing that this material is out there and yet you got only those 12 hits and 1/2 by you. (Were the other 6 Ann Coulter?) Americans have extremely poor political memories, as they just don't want to have to pay attention to any of this. Witness Joe Biden in the Presidency - I truly though when the press (back when they weren't COMPLETELY 1-sided) reported on his blatant plagiarism, that that was the end of at least one dumbass D's career. Nope.

    Maybe google was just "having a hard time" with this search.

    Replies: @El Dato

    Yeah… anyone remember Saddam’s Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?

    • Thanks: Polistra
    • LOL: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @El Dato


    Yeah… anyone remember Saddam’s Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?
     
    The FBI blamed it on a Fort Detrick scientist who committed suicide.


    https://abcnews.go.com/images/US/bruce_ivins_080806_mn.jpg
    Greenwald: The FBI’s Strange Anthrax Investigation Sheds Light On COVID Lab-Leak Theory And Fauci’s Emails

    https://www.nationandstate.com/2021/06/03/greenwald-the-fbis-strange-anthrax-investigation-sheds-light-on-covid-lab-leak-theory-and-faucis-emails/
     

    Replies: @El Dato

  34. Anon[311] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, your “12-results” 10-word-long search is ridiculous. You designed it so it would only find your pages. Just remove the quotes and you get a zillion results. The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you. And most writers would not include “Mineta” in this discussion, whose contribution at any rate was after the fact and was not in any way a binding regulatory communication.

    However, you’d make a good SEO consultant. They construct unlikely searches like this to prove to their customers that their pages are now coming up on Google’s top results page. It’s not hard to do this in considerably fewer than 10 words. The problem is that the searches are not popular enough to result in any traffic.

    • Agree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you.

    The quotes require that the writers have quoted George W. Bush in the 2nd presidential debate.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @gandydancer
    @Anon


    In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE...
    Thus, out of the billions of words written about 9/11, there have been very, very few references to this counter-narrative narrative. If I do a google search for:

    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    I get 12 hits, half of them by me.
     
    You object to Sailer's search, and claim to come up with "a zillion results" by relaxing them, but you point to exactly none that make the connection between the Bush/Mineta anti-racial profiling campaign and 9/11. So your response is an irrelevant distraction. Try again.
  35. and here we are. TROP website has tallied 40K muslim attacks since 9/11. huh

  36. Jorge Videla [AKA "the banality of stevil"] says:

    the narratives aren’t the result of stupidity steve. they’re kayfabe. they’re written by two tiny overlapping obscenely powerful minorities, the haute bourgeoisie and jews.

    you’re shtick is just piling up facts and making jokes. maybe you should have a grand narrative and not be a postmodern skeptic of all grand narratives.

    here’s the correct narrative: the small homogeneous social democracy (democratic national socialism) is the ultimate achievement of politics. if it’s not iceland, it’s crap.

    all of the media narratives are merely means of obscuring this fact. mass media is propaganda and distraction for an illigitmate and hostile ruling class. nothing more.

  37. Steve, you meant Flying While Arab (not White).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Christopher Paul

    Thanks.

  38. I like to think that Gore’s nod also meant, “I can see my side will win even if I lose.”

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  39. Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that’s a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that’s asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It’s in the double digits). It’s all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2...
     
    ...by an oppressive fascist government. As a Democrat, Mineta conveniently leaves this part out.


    Derb apparently follows Guy Kawasaki's advice to post often but never read the comments. Yet he sometimes reads Steve's comments. We wonder if he was present for the "chaos":


    'Chaos' at Book Revue in Huntington as store gives away rest of its books after closure

    , @Dieter Kief
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Philosophical errors in public debates = Not a serious country
     
    Dr. Freud talked about nothing so often as about the - gap - between man's ability to think and his ability to act reasonably. Freud did even label this gap - like so many before him (Schopenhauer, Goethe, John Stuart Mill, Oscar Wile (Bunbury is the play about this gap... - as is Cosi Fan Tutte the Opera about this gap) ... - Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte, The Bible...). But I think Freud's label (rationalizations (neurotic defense mechanisms) - let me assume that Freuds labels are the most concise. The simplest in a way too. Freud says: People say all kinds of things - rational things at first look, but beware! - And he's right: Beware - not least when people say rational things.

    Steve is taking this gap into sharp inspection too while looking at the deformations of the public discourse***. As have others (***Jürgen Habermas, Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson).

    To close this gap would be - well is - one of the big tasks the education system and the journals etc. in the West face.
    Peter Boghossian and others (Steve Sailer, Jordan B. Peterson. The Unz Review as the platform of free controversies in Jefferson's spirit) are thus more important than they seem to be.

    The East has not produced this kind of public self-reflection. That's why - in such contexts - we should not follow him. Mineta's case is no coincidence.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Sean

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that’s a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK.
     
    You are absolutely correct. Just- it's the same with the whole (literate) world.
    , @Deadite
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    To the upper reaches of the deep state, that isn’t a bug. It’s a feature.

    Debat, discussion of ancient and modern philosophies, and. It the trash that has replaced it, and the desire to drive logic and true historical knowledge out of the classroom make for a subservient people.

    That we lose creativity along the way, well, who cares if there’s another app available on my iPhone?

    , @Deadite
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    😬

    , @Sick of Orcs
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    No government school is going to teach its citizens how to think or be self-sufficient.

  40. @Christopher Paul
    Steve, you meant Flying While Arab (not White).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

  41. Inquisitor: Steve, what makes you so confident that Saudis flying airplanes caused the destruction of lower Manhattan?

    Steve: Well, the passport found on the street is proof.

    Inquisitor: Are you referring to the passport of Satam al-Suqami which fluttered down from the crash site?

    Steve: Yes, that was a miraculous event that proved Saudi nationals flew passenger airplanes into the towers.

    Inquisitor: Good point Steve. Thank you.

  42. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    I was only half paying attention to the TV, but the reporter narrated something about how great it was that some marooned Americans had finally gotten out of Afghanistan. The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase.

    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California’s favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.

    • Replies: @Thea
    @Abolish_public_education


    The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase
     
    Maybe our leaders are really right wing MRA white sharia promoters who just pretend to be woke leftists.

    Like 4D chess.

    , @AceDeuce
    @Abolish_public_education


    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California’s favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.
     
    And the strongest voice in DC against Jap interment, who almost prevailed in stopping it before being overruled, was mean ol' J. Edgar Hoover.
  43. @Anon
    Steve, your "12-results" 10-word-long search is ridiculous. You designed it so it would only find your pages. Just remove the quotes and you get a zillion results. The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you. And most writers would not include "Mineta" in this discussion, whose contribution at any rate was after the fact and was not in any way a binding regulatory communication.

    However, you'd make a good SEO consultant. They construct unlikely searches like this to prove to their customers that their pages are now coming up on Google's top results page. It's not hard to do this in considerably fewer than 10 words. The problem is that the searches are not popular enough to result in any traffic.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @gandydancer

    The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you.

    The quotes require that the writers have quoted George W. Bush in the 2nd presidential debate.

    • Thanks: Polistra
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Here's how I interpret this post: "Nobody but Steve has been smart enough to notice this. Proof: Nobody has used this particular direct quote from Bush on the web in this context."

    My point: You can"notice" this by paraphrasing what he said then, or by a direct quote from the campaign trail when he was harping on the same point. For instance, these guys managed to notice the same thing without quoting the debate:

    https://civilrights.org/2001/10/24/racial-profiling-and-the-september-11-attacks/

    I got this with "bush 9/11 profiling"," and there's a lot more there.

    The words "debate,," "2000," and "mindsets" are unnecessary. You should remove the quotes to allow for paraphrasing or variations from other occasions. At that point, "Arab-Americans" has synonyms you don't want to exclude, and it really isn't necessary given the search term "9/11," as my search showed, so you get rid of it. "Racially" could be "ethnically": Get rid of it. "Are" is on the stoplist and isn't considered in searches: Get rid of it. If you get too much noise from, say "culinarily profiled," use Google's Boolean search operators and list up only the possibilities you want, or the exclusion operator to exclude.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  44. @El Dato
    Well, there are lots of ultra-bizarre tidbits about 9/11, from apparently unusual "mafia murders" of people who might have seen something, to "Israeli art students" apparently doing a "hush hush art project" photographed in WTC with ceiling panels removed and boxes of what might be explosive cord stacked to the ceiling to (apparently only marginally unusual) stock movement regarding airlines on that very day. And then there are those excessively numeros NORAD manoeuvers coincidentally happening on 9/11. Then there was the side of the Pentagon that was hit having been reinforced recently. Plus the fact that 9/11 took place coincidentally on 9-11. Then the destruction of any dot-connecting evidence in the military prior to 9/11, etc. etc.

    Do these point to some big item conspiracy or just pure chance events made significant through the look-elsewhere effect?

    On September 21, 2001, Mineta sent a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from practicing racial profiling; or subjecting Middle Eastern or Muslim passengers to a heightened degree of pre-flight scrutiny.
     
    If that rank psychotic decision had been made on September 1st for some reason, bricks would have been shat. Or more probably it might have been studiously ignored by MSM but shown as extremely relevant by "truthers".

    Foucault's Pendulum indeed.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    Yeah, I remember an unusual amount of military air activity over my hometown (several waves of fighter jets doing obnoxious low-flying maneuvers from afternoon until twilight) on 9/10/01. There was an NAS base like 20-30 miles away. The loud engines somewhat disrupted “meet the teacher night” for about 15 minutes, and I went outside to watch the jets with my sister and some other kids. The next day when my Math teacher flipped on the tv to show us the events, after being annoyed by the dumb kids in my class laughing because they didn’t get what was going on, I immediately thought about the previous night’s jets. I was too young to consider my observation remotely suspicious or sinister, but I still recognized the coincidence.

    • Thanks: El Dato
  45. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    … they are the World’s Worst Guests.

    At least since Egil gouged out Armod’s eye.

    https://sacred-texts.com/neu/egil/egil75.htm
    https://sacred-texts.com/neu/egil/egil76.htm

  46. @Benny Meyer
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Uh do you know how bad white supremacy can harm a Person of Color and make them defend theyselves in even odd ways?

    People of Color are tired and are through being accommodating

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQ1v1AxHKc

    Watch the very end to see how strong the ally ship is.

    Replies: @Polistra

    • LOL: Dnought
  47. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2…

    …by an oppressive fascist government. As a Democrat, Mineta conveniently leaves this part out.

    Derb apparently follows Guy Kawasaki’s advice to post often but never read the comments. Yet he sometimes reads Steve’s comments. We wonder if he was present for the “chaos”:

    ‘Chaos’ at Book Revue in Huntington as store gives away rest of its books after closure

  48. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah... anyone remember Saddam's Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Yeah… anyone remember Saddam’s Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?

    The FBI blamed it on a Fort Detrick scientist who committed suicide.


    Greenwald: The FBI’s Strange Anthrax Investigation Sheds Light On COVID Lab-Leak Theory And Fauci’s Emails

    https://www.nationandstate.com/2021/06/03/greenwald-the-fbis-strange-anthrax-investigation-sheds-light-on-covid-lab-leak-theory-and-faucis-emails/

    • Thanks: El Dato
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Anonymous

    Good to hear that Gleen is still on the case.

    Yes, I more or less remember that show. Ivins, as bio-savvy dude, committed suicide in the most painful way, by ingesting paracetamol to bust his liver.

    Ivins was also smeared as some anime perv lusting after sorority girls. Really bizarre.

    The FBI actually had to find out new science about anthrax bacterium, insofar as apparently it creates a silica surface when hibernating, giving the impression of having been created at an official US lab instead of Ivins' home. That's what I remember in any case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.1137


    In 2002, as part of the FBI investigation, scientists at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, used electron microscopy to analyse the composition of the spores. The results were finally made public last month. They found silicon and oxygen in the spore coat, but not on the most external layer, the exosporium. The location of the silicon, the FBI says, suggests that it was incorporated naturally into the structures during growth, not added as a final coating to weaponize them.

    But other experts disagree with the conclusion. "I don't think the guys at Sandia understand that the exosporium is not some kind of brick wall," says Stuart Jacobsen, a research chemist based in Dallas, Texas, who is an expert on the preparation and properties of fine-grained powders and has followed the case closely. "It's more like a chain-link fence." Decades ago, a study found that the exosporium is porous to various small molecules.
     

    Well, maybe he DID do it.

    Replies: @El Dato

  49. Anon[167] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you.

    The quotes require that the writers have quoted George W. Bush in the 2nd presidential debate.

    Replies: @Anon

    Here’s how I interpret this post: “Nobody but Steve has been smart enough to notice this. Proof: Nobody has used this particular direct quote from Bush on the web in this context.”

    My point: You can”notice” this by paraphrasing what he said then, or by a direct quote from the campaign trail when he was harping on the same point. For instance, these guys managed to notice the same thing without quoting the debate:

    https://civilrights.org/2001/10/24/racial-profiling-and-the-september-11-attacks/

    I got this with “bush 9/11 profiling”,” and there’s a lot more there.

    The words “debate,,” “2000,” and “mindsets” are unnecessary. You should remove the quotes to allow for paraphrasing or variations from other occasions. At that point, “Arab-Americans” has synonyms you don’t want to exclude, and it really isn’t necessary given the search term “9/11,” as my search showed, so you get rid of it. “Racially” could be “ethnically”: Get rid of it. “Are” is on the stoplist and isn’t considered in searches: Get rid of it. If you get too much noise from, say “culinarily profiled,” use Google’s Boolean search operators and list up only the possibilities you want, or the exclusion operator to exclude.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Anon

    Are you and Anon[311] the same person? Because you and he both do the same obnoxiously stupid thing. Again, here is what Steve wrote:


    In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE...
    Thus, out of the billions of words written about 9/11, there have been very, very few references to this counter-narrative narrative. If I do a google search for:

    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    I get 12 hits, half of them by me.
     
    You object to Sailer's search, and come up with "a lot" of results. But then you make the mistake of providing an example... which on examination turns out to be some moron complaining, like, Mineta, about "racial profiling" of Arabs after 9/11. What STEVE looked for is evidence of anyone making the connection between the Bush/Mineta anti-racial profiling campaign and 9/11 happening. Try again, or admit failure and irrelevance.
  50. @Anonymous
    Like Biden, Bush lost patience with us.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Dieter Kief

    Bush and Biden – They hate us for our freedom.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Mr. Anon

    https://i.postimg.cc/Dy24JgVy/guild-navigator-joe-biden.png

    "The Spice must flow!"

    , @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s funny, ‘cause it’s true.

  51. @Anonymous
    Like Biden, Bush lost patience with us.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Dieter Kief

    Like Biden, Bush lost patience with us.

    To have patience with the West is old stuff now. The hip stuff is to have patience with the world. One of the most stunning things in this context is how the Bidens became hip. Here you can study how strong narratives are. – And that they are not based on formal logic they have a logic of their own).

  52. @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid
     
    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge -- if you don't know what that looks like you weren't a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @El Dato, @dearieme, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    “We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house.”

    I remember disinfecting every switch in the house, from lights to cooker. Then every tap. Early days, precautionary principle. I have sufficient disposable plastic gloves to last for a few years. Now used for painting, car work etc.

    • Replies: @Cato
    @YetAnotherAnon

    When Ebola mutates to be transmittable pneumonically (predicted to kill 90% of the world population) we will both have the skill set to get through that crisis.

  53. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    Philosophical errors in public debates = Not a serious country

    Dr. Freud talked about nothing so often as about the – gap – between man’s ability to think and his ability to act reasonably. Freud did even label this gap – like so many before him (Schopenhauer, Goethe, John Stuart Mill, Oscar Wile (Bunbury is the play about this gap… – as is Cosi Fan Tutte the Opera about this gap) … – Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte, The Bible…). But I think Freud’s label (rationalizations (neurotic defense mechanisms) – let me assume that Freuds labels are the most concise. The simplest in a way too. Freud says: People say all kinds of things – rational things at first look, but beware! – And he’s right: Beware – not least when people say rational things.

    Steve is taking this gap into sharp inspection too while looking at the deformations of the public discourse***. As have others (***Jürgen Habermas, Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson).

    To close this gap would be – well is – one of the big tasks the education system and the journals etc. in the West face.
    Peter Boghossian and others (Steve Sailer, Jordan B. Peterson. The Unz Review as the platform of free controversies in Jefferson’s spirit) are thus more important than they seem to be.

    The East has not produced this kind of public self-reflection. That’s why – in such contexts – we should not follow him. Mineta’s case is no coincidence.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Dieter Kief

    We at least have "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s "Rational Reasoning about Why She's a Witch" scene.

    I would have put it into the Robert E. Lee time capsule Mark II instead of stupid Kente Cloth and the photo of a Black Ballerina performing in front of the graffiti-soaked pedestal.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    , @Sean
    @Dieter Kief

    Japanese are conformist by nature.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

    The 442nd Infantry Regiment was an infantry regiment of the United States Army. The regiment is best known as the most decorated in U. S. military history and as a fighting unit composed almost entirely of second-generation American soldiers of Japanese ancestry (Nisei) who fought in World War II. Beginning in 1944, the regiment fought primarily in the European Theatre,[3] in particular Italy, southern France, and Germany.
     

    What sets the West apart is its creativeness. Andreas Wagner's ‘landscape thinking’ that enables an exploration of possibility. Wagner sees a parallel between genetics and innovation inasmuch as one must go into the maladaptive hell of the valley before reaching a new peak. Bush did that, although his 'valley' was to be kind and caring, while the' peak' attained was a stoic and relentless application of armed force as the default option. Now we are back in the valley. Though a master of rhetoric that created to opposite impression, Trump was extremely cautious about actually taking military action. Biden has continues that policy, but it will not survive future events.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  54. @Thomm
    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel's Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.

    Or is the narrative now that the 9/11 hijackers, while Arab (15 of the 19 were Saudi), were all on Mossad's payroll?


    Hats off to Ron Unz. He is a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew*, as demonstrated by his ability to have this website broadcast multiple contradictory narratives at once in a manner far more systematic than merely an 'unorganized spectrum of opinions'. The WN groups that hate Jews have been thoroughly confused and conquered by RUnzie Baby.


    *That is a specific type of Jew, ya know. A Confuse and Conquer Jew.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Ed Case, @Sean

    That’s because you are assuming there you will only find a single “narrative” at Unz or that event X may only fit into a single one.

    Meanwhile you can probably find about a dozen different narratives in the bookstore.

    Today, there is an article at RT.com bemoaning that the TLAs didn’t inflitrate Bin Laden’s outfit harder ( 9/11: The spies inside Al-Qaeda who could have prevented the attacks) mentioning people I have never heard of, which is in contradiction with the narrative that Bin Laden didn’t do it, while Peter Lance wrote whole books about how Bin Laden had infilitrated the CIA, but linking events to 9/11 that go from interesting – infighting in the NY FBI trying to cover up the story of gay ‘mafia cleaner’ boffing his FBI handler – to the frankly bizarre – Terry Nichols building the first bomb for the ’96 WTC attack or TWA 800 actually brought down by a bomb.

    You are supposed to handle that. Level up!

  55. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:

    Another point about George W. Bush:

    Anyone who can remember his eight years of misrule will, surely, recall his many, many persistent and blatant attempts either to proclaim a so-called “amnesty” for illegal immigrants – which in reality, of course, is merely a reward and prize for successfully breaking the law and evading justice – and attempt after attempt to force through ‘open borders’ legislation. Of course in doing these things he was merely getting brownie points from the trendy neolibs and neocons who ruled the ‘intellectual’ roost at the time.

    Anyhow, this perfidy and stupidity was more or less thwarted and stymied by the good ol fashioned yeoman American middle class. They got wind of the flatulence emanating from the White House, and with every immigrationist parp emitted by the more intellectual end of the Bush alimentary canal besieged Congress and White House switchboards with the gist of ‘ if you do this, I’ll never vote Republican again’.
    This ‘peasants revolt’ had the desired effect, and Bush was cowed from doing what he so dearly wished ….

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Anonymous

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/real-message-of-the-bush-amnesty/


    If George Bush’s amnesty for between 8 million and 14 million illegal aliens is enacted, you can kiss the old America goodbye.
     
  56. @Hypnotoad666

    In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE.
     
    Western morality says you are Good if you achieve good ends with good motivation. (Mother Theresa) Conversely, you are Evil if you do bad things with bad intent. (Hitler)

    But the other two cases that make up most of reality just confuse people: I.e., achieving good things with "bad" motivations (e.g. the incedible advances wrought by "greedy" capitalists); and doing harm with good intentions (e.g. missionaries spreading smallpox or most do-gooder social engineering projects).

    People are designed to understand the world in terms of morality tales in which good/bad and cause/effect are aligned. They work hard to confirm reality into these templates. But if they can't, they tend to just ignore the facts that won't fit.

    Replies: @El Dato

    Strong heuristics.

    People can barely suss out why the milk isn’t in the fridge drawer today. This will stay so – “make sense of” algorithms generally take exponential time in the number of variables and large amounts of short-term memory – if you succeed in specifying what a solution even looks like. We have barely moved into formalizing causality.

    Baconian method are other heuristics, which leads us to the deliciousy named “Baconian Probabilities” (Measuring Assurance Case Confidence using Baconian Probabilities), which are not probabilities. Anyway, something that is good to know exists.

    From Wikipedia, Bacon has this to caution about:

    Idols of the Tribe (Idola tribus): This is humans’ tendency to perceive more order and regularity in systems than truly exists, and is due to people following their preconceived ideas about things.

    Idols of the Cave (Idola specus): This is due to individuals’ personal weaknesses in reasoning due to particular personalities, likes and dislikes.

    Idols of the Marketplace (Idola fori): This is due to confusion in the use of language and taking some words in science to have a different meaning than their common usage.

    Idols of the Theatre (Idola theatri): This is the following of academic dogma and not asking questions about the world.

    More on this here.

    Everything is better with Bacon and Bayes.

  57. @Dieter Kief
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Philosophical errors in public debates = Not a serious country
     
    Dr. Freud talked about nothing so often as about the - gap - between man's ability to think and his ability to act reasonably. Freud did even label this gap - like so many before him (Schopenhauer, Goethe, John Stuart Mill, Oscar Wile (Bunbury is the play about this gap... - as is Cosi Fan Tutte the Opera about this gap) ... - Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte, The Bible...). But I think Freud's label (rationalizations (neurotic defense mechanisms) - let me assume that Freuds labels are the most concise. The simplest in a way too. Freud says: People say all kinds of things - rational things at first look, but beware! - And he's right: Beware - not least when people say rational things.

    Steve is taking this gap into sharp inspection too while looking at the deformations of the public discourse***. As have others (***Jürgen Habermas, Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson).

    To close this gap would be - well is - one of the big tasks the education system and the journals etc. in the West face.
    Peter Boghossian and others (Steve Sailer, Jordan B. Peterson. The Unz Review as the platform of free controversies in Jefferson's spirit) are thus more important than they seem to be.

    The East has not produced this kind of public self-reflection. That's why - in such contexts - we should not follow him. Mineta's case is no coincidence.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Sean

    We at least have “Monty Python and the Holy Grail”‘s “Rational Reasoning about Why She’s a Witch” scene.

    I would have put it into the Robert E. Lee time capsule Mark II instead of stupid Kente Cloth and the photo of a Black Ballerina performing in front of the graffiti-soaked pedestal.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @El Dato

    I push the sigh & smile button also known as the Mark Twain memorial button for wisdom & humor. Never forget to laugh, when being confronted with the world's absurdities - - -

    Replies: @JMcG

  58. @Thomm
    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel's Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.

    Or is the narrative now that the 9/11 hijackers, while Arab (15 of the 19 were Saudi), were all on Mossad's payroll?


    Hats off to Ron Unz. He is a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew*, as demonstrated by his ability to have this website broadcast multiple contradictory narratives at once in a manner far more systematic than merely an 'unorganized spectrum of opinions'. The WN groups that hate Jews have been thoroughly confused and conquered by RUnzie Baby.


    *That is a specific type of Jew, ya know. A Confuse and Conquer Jew.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Ed Case, @Sean

    The narrative is:
    There were no planes, no Arabs, no hijackings, and 3 buildings in Manhattan were demoed by pros while people were still inside 2 of the buildings.
    It appears the most reasonable conclusion, all the other theories require magical thinking.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Ed Case

    To get the "no planes" idea working you must posit magical tech.

    Basically be inside a Hideo Kojima game.


    It appears the most reasonable conclusion
     
    A "conclusion" is not a "narrative" and as "narrative" that one is horsepucky.
    , @Thomm
    @Ed Case


    There were no planes, no Arabs,
     
    Yes, so then why this article about Arabs being profiled or not? That should not matter at all, if Arabs were not the perps.

    Replies: @Ed Case

  59. That is most interesting. Clinton maybe and Bush the Younger certainly could have taken Osama Bin Laden out in the years before 9/11, but after his declaration of war against the Saud family dictatorship and America and terror attacks against US Embassies. The CIA assassination’ of bin Laden would have risked the deaths of innocent people including children collaterally. Even risking stopping innocent Muslims at airport security checks was considered egregious. Bush said those things because he thought that was the mood of the country.

    Like the time when George Bush and Dick Cheney decided against invading Iraq and toppling Saddam Hussein. Remember that? . Bad move in retrospect, it caused 9/11, because Saddam remaining in power after he was kicked out of Kuwait, meant Saudi Arabia had to have an American army stationed in it to to prevent Saddam’s Iraq getting any funny ideas about doing to Saudi Arabia what he had done to Kuwait in 1990. But the ordinary Saudi Arabians were outraged at the Saud family dictatorship that styles itself Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques having invited, needed, infidels to protect Islam’s most sacred land from other Sunni Muslims (who ruled Iraq under Saddam).

    The upshot of all this kind and caring policy by the US was a terrorist attack killing thousands in NYC and a sudden switch by everyone to not caring very much about innocent Muslim deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Sean


    The CIA assassination’ of bin Laden would have risked the deaths of innocent people including children collaterally. Even risking stopping innocent Muslims at airport security checks was considered egregious. Bush said those things because he thought that was the mood of the country.
     
    Wasn't there egregious cruise-missiling during Clinton (in particular, in Sudan directly after the dick event) that nobody gave a toss about?

    Maybe they were not really "the mood of the country" but rather "the mood of the political opponents" and "the mood of the new writers in the press office". And maybe "the mood of the people behind the curtain".

    Reminder that security services were training hard and assessing the scenario of someone getting ahold of planes, with "Bin Laden" named. Training suspiciously hard, actually:

    This video appears in no search results at YouTube or Duck Duck Go and hasn't been upload officially by Corbett either

    https://youtu.be/gWjTRlwbM6U?t=1025

    At 17:00
  60. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that’s a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK.

    You are absolutely correct. Just- it’s the same with the whole (literate) world.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  61. @Dieter Kief
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Philosophical errors in public debates = Not a serious country
     
    Dr. Freud talked about nothing so often as about the - gap - between man's ability to think and his ability to act reasonably. Freud did even label this gap - like so many before him (Schopenhauer, Goethe, John Stuart Mill, Oscar Wile (Bunbury is the play about this gap... - as is Cosi Fan Tutte the Opera about this gap) ... - Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte, The Bible...). But I think Freud's label (rationalizations (neurotic defense mechanisms) - let me assume that Freuds labels are the most concise. The simplest in a way too. Freud says: People say all kinds of things - rational things at first look, but beware! - And he's right: Beware - not least when people say rational things.

    Steve is taking this gap into sharp inspection too while looking at the deformations of the public discourse***. As have others (***Jürgen Habermas, Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson).

    To close this gap would be - well is - one of the big tasks the education system and the journals etc. in the West face.
    Peter Boghossian and others (Steve Sailer, Jordan B. Peterson. The Unz Review as the platform of free controversies in Jefferson's spirit) are thus more important than they seem to be.

    The East has not produced this kind of public self-reflection. That's why - in such contexts - we should not follow him. Mineta's case is no coincidence.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Sean

    Japanese are conformist by nature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

    The 442nd Infantry Regiment was an infantry regiment of the United States Army. The regiment is best known as the most decorated in U. S. military history and as a fighting unit composed almost entirely of second-generation American soldiers of Japanese ancestry (Nisei) who fought in World War II. Beginning in 1944, the regiment fought primarily in the European Theatre,[3] in particular Italy, southern France, and Germany.

    What sets the West apart is its creativeness. Andreas Wagner’s ‘landscape thinking’ that enables an exploration of possibility. Wagner sees a parallel between genetics and innovation inasmuch as one must go into the maladaptive hell of the valley before reaching a new peak. Bush did that, although his ‘valley’ was to be kind and caring, while the’ peak’ attained was a stoic and relentless application of armed force as the default option. Now we are back in the valley. Though a master of rhetoric that created to opposite impression, Trump was extremely cautious about actually taking military action. Biden has continues that policy, but it will not survive future events.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Sean


    Japanese are conformist by nature.
     
    The nature part may be completed with nurture too (ok - this is stating the obvious).

    But - (some) Asians are indeed very interested in understanding better what kinds of theoretical blind spots their - öh culture (one has to read both words worth the same emphasis to get this passage right: their culture) - what kind of blind spots their culture is suffering from (they do study those books about self-reflection/ and dialog-based open discourses (Dialogizität . s. Gadamer's Truth and Method) and intersubjectivity even (Habermas Theory of Communicative Action et. al. of his (numerous) books.
    Habermas is big in China too. - The hardest nut to crack for the Chinese intellectual elite will be this kind of self-reflective social theories and their - moral foundation, books like John Steuart Mill's On Liberty or - on a lesser scale: Jonathan Haidt's and Greg Lukianoff's The Coddling of the American Mind and Haidt's The Righteous Mind.
  62. @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid
     
    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge -- if you don't know what that looks like you weren't a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @El Dato, @dearieme, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    It feels like that, but it’s more an effect of being hit with something new while being in ignorance of what it actually is.

    [MORE]

    If the delta had come full out immediately, hospitals would have been a scene out of “Outbreak” even before everyone had set up the audio system for the politician, had found sources of PPE and jotted down “tricks that will work and not kill the patient outright”.

    lucky_lucky_anime_girl.jpg

    But ignorance continues, we don’t know half of anything.

    Data: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34438440/#affiliation-3

    Population susceptibility at [2020]’s end was 69.0% (63.6 – 75.4%), indicating that roughly one third of the US population had been infected. Community infectious rates, the percentage of people harbouring a contagious infection, rose above 0.8% (0.6 – 1.0%) before the end of the year, and were as high as 2.4% in some major metropolitan areas. In contrast, the infection fatality rate fell to 0.3% by year’s end.

    This is for the US. Latest IFR estimate at 0.3% … “worse than expected at the start of the pandemic”.

    A quick shufti brings up these numbers for Germany Estimating effective infection fatality rates during the course of the COVID-19 pandemic in Germany, June 21, 2021:

    The risk of death among persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is estimated to increase substantially with increasing age by each of the four considered studies, which is also supported by the number of observed deaths per age group in Germany. However, estimates from the literature show larger discrepancies; as for example in age group 80+, the IFR estimate from [12] is given by 5.60% [4.30%; 7.40%], while the corresponding IFR estimate from [6] is as large as 15.61% [12.20%; 19.50%]. On the other hand, for the age group 60-79 the IFR estimate from [5] is approximately 1%, while the other studies yield larger estimates for this age group ranging from 2.49% in [6] to 3.89% in [12]. Furthermore, Table 1 gives estimates of resulting population-averaged infection fatality rates for Germany, which are derived under the assumption that the risk of infection with SARS-CoV-2 is independent of age and time (see assumption (a)). Population-averaged estimates for Germany range from 0.756% [0.717%; 0.796%] by [5] to 1.687% [1.407%; 2.139%] by [6], reflecting the uncertainty regarding age-specific IFR.

  63. @epebble
    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    It may be better to target Muslim Aliens rather than Arab-Americans while profiling for terrorists. I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists). I sure hope if we have a problem with an African, Asian or Hispanic nation/Non-State Actor someday, we will not racially profile African-Americans, Asian-Americans or Hispanic-Americans but do profile African-Aliens, Asian-Aliens and Hispanic-Aliens.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @gandydancer

    I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists

    Maj. Nidal Hasan was born in the USA.  But other than that, you appear to be right; the major cases are of Pakistani and Afghan descent.  (One more reason not to accept even ONE Afghan “refugee”.)

  64. @anon
    I was not aware that James Byrd was a criminal.

    Can you offer some proof of this?

    Replies: @gandydancer, @mulga mumblebrain, @AceDeuce

    Byrd worked sporadically as a vacuum salesman but struggled with alcoholism, and spent a few years in prison for petty theft.

    https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/james-byrd-jr

    A fact not to be found on Wikipedia, evidently. But biography.com isn’t exactly The Daily Stormer.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @gandydancer

    From the link.


    "Following Byrd’s death, his family established the James Byrd Foundation for Racial Healing, which ...offers scholarships to people of color"
     
    Shouldn't an organisation for Racial Healing offer scholarships to poor people of any race?

    It's all so tiresome.


    Sean - if I were an Army bigwig I'd make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals - wouldn't you? You want to both make them more pro-American AND encourage other Japanese Americans - even those interned.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  65. @Sean
    That is most interesting. Clinton maybe and Bush the Younger certainly could have taken Osama Bin Laden out in the years before 9/11, but after his declaration of war against the Saud family dictatorship and America and terror attacks against US Embassies. The CIA assassination' of bin Laden would have risked the deaths of innocent people including children collaterally. Even risking stopping innocent Muslims at airport security checks was considered egregious. Bush said those things because he thought that was the mood of the country.

    Like the time when George Bush and Dick Cheney decided against invading Iraq and toppling Saddam Hussein. Remember that? . Bad move in retrospect, it caused 9/11, because Saddam remaining in power after he was kicked out of Kuwait, meant Saudi Arabia had to have an American army stationed in it to to prevent Saddam's Iraq getting any funny ideas about doing to Saudi Arabia what he had done to Kuwait in 1990. But the ordinary Saudi Arabians were outraged at the Saud family dictatorship that styles itself Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques having invited, needed, infidels to protect Islam's most sacred land from other Sunni Muslims (who ruled Iraq under Saddam).

    The upshot of all this kind and caring policy by the US was a terrorist attack killing thousands in NYC and a sudden switch by everyone to not caring very much about innocent Muslim deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Replies: @El Dato

    The CIA assassination’ of bin Laden would have risked the deaths of innocent people including children collaterally. Even risking stopping innocent Muslims at airport security checks was considered egregious. Bush said those things because he thought that was the mood of the country.

    Wasn’t there egregious cruise-missiling during Clinton (in particular, in Sudan directly after the dick event) that nobody gave a toss about?

    Maybe they were not really “the mood of the country” but rather “the mood of the political opponents” and “the mood of the new writers in the press office”. And maybe “the mood of the people behind the curtain”.

    Reminder that security services were training hard and assessing the scenario of someone getting ahold of planes, with “Bin Laden” named. Training suspiciously hard, actually:

    This video appears in no search results at YouTube or Duck Duck Go and hasn’t been upload officially by Corbett either

    At 17:00

    • Thanks: bomag
  66. @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous

    Bush and Biden - They hate us for our freedom.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous

    “The Spice must flow!”

  67. anonymous[114] • Disclaimer says:

    James Byrd, the Emmett Till-Rodney King of the era, a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas, in order to promote a Hate Crimes law.

    Typical Steve Sailer behavior. You just have to mention the murder victim had a criminal record (petty theft) despite any lack of relevance with his murder because pure evil racism couldn’t possibly exist.

    On June 7, 1998, Byrd, age 49, accepted a ride from Shawn Berry (age 23), Lawrence Brewer (age 31), and John King (age 23). Berry, who was driving, was acquainted with Byrd from around town. Instead of taking Byrd home, the three men took Byrd to a remote county road out of town, beat him severely, spray-painted his face,[18] urinated and defecated on him,[19] and chained him by his ankles to their pickup truck before dragging him for about three miles (five kilometers). Brewer later claimed that Byrd’s throat had been slashed by Berry before he was dragged. However, forensic evidence suggests that Byrd had been attempting to keep his head up while being dragged, and an autopsy suggested that Byrd was alive during much of the dragging. Byrd died about halfway along the route of his dragging, when his right arm and head were severed as his body hit a culvert.[2] While almost all of Byrd’s ribs were fractured, his brain and skull were found intact, further suggesting that he maintained consciousness while he was being dragged.[20]

    Berry, Brewer, and King dumped the mutilated remains of Byrd’s body in front of an African-American church on Huff Creek Road, then drove off to a barbecue.[21] A motorist found Byrd’s decapitated remains the following morning.[22] Along the area where Byrd was dragged, police found a wrench with “Berry” written on it. They also found a lighter that was inscribed with “Possum”, which was King’s prison nickname.[21] The police found 81 places that included portions of Byrd’s remains.[21][23]

    • Agree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @anonymous

    The only response is to hand the trio to Marcellus Wallace.

    , @bomag
    @anonymous

    Narrative maintenance.

  68. @gandydancer
    @anon


    Byrd worked sporadically as a vacuum salesman but struggled with alcoholism, and spent a few years in prison for petty theft.
     
    https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/james-byrd-jr

    A fact not to be found on Wikipedia, evidently. But biography.com isn't exactly The Daily Stormer.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    From the link.

    “Following Byrd’s death, his family established the James Byrd Foundation for Racial Healing, which …offers scholarships to people of color”

    Shouldn’t an organisation for Racial Healing offer scholarships to poor people of any race?

    It’s all so tiresome.

    Sean – if I were an Army bigwig I’d make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals – wouldn’t you? You want to both make them more pro-American AND encourage other Japanese Americans – even those interned.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I’d make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals –

    They did. The Fighting 442nd of Japanese Americans was famous when I was a kid as the most decorated unit of WWII in Europe.

    Replies: @JMcG, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  69. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    I was speaking out against any war in Iraq from more than a year before and a long war in Afghanistan from 9/26/2001. But … the Lancet was faked. There is no way that hired Iraqi researchers went door to door in randomly chosen neighborhoods in Iraq in 2006 and asked prying questions. That was a good way to get a hole drilled in your head in 2006:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/updated-depressing-news-of-day/

    “The more I think about the mechanics of carrying out the survey on the street without getting killed, the more I suspect that the Iraqi interviewers didn’t actually implement the purely random survey design that the American professors from MIT and Johns Hopkins dreamed up for them. It would be nuts to to let luck determine which streets you’d choose, as the report claims they did. You’d want to only go where you knew you’d be safe. Then you’d tell the Americans you did exactly what they told you to do.”

    • Agree: JMcG, Dnought, HammerJack
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Steve Sailer

    In any case, a DU baby is not a Good Thing.

    What was I saying. NURSE! Oh yeah:

    Remember the "vaccination drive to find out the whereabouts of Bin Laden" which made polio drives unpalatable in Pakistan?

    He Led the CIA to bin Laden—and Unwittingly Fueled a Vaccine Backlash: Pakistani doctor's role in health campaign sparked local suspicions that efforts to fight polio were part of a Western plot.


    In his native Pakistan, Dr. Shakil Afridi is considered a traitor by many people for helping the Central Intelligence Agency track down and kill Osama bin Laden. In the United States, he is hailed as a hero.
     
    Yes, he stars sometimes on "The Simpsons", doesn't he?

    In global health circles, his story is a cautionary tale about the consequences that can spiral out of control when health professionals get too close to intelligence operations.
     
    Stay away from security people. They WILL burn you.

    More than three years after U.S. Navy SEALs raided bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, it remains unclear whether Afridi knew he was working for the CIA when he led a hepatitis B vaccination campaign that helped U.S. agents learn where bin Laden was hiding.
     
    Why not ask ISI?

    The Abbottabad report says that in January 2011, four months before the raid on bin Laden's compound, Kate asked Afridi to launch a hepatitis B vaccination campaign in areas near Abbottabad, a military garrison town about 100 miles (160 kilometers) west of Peshawar.

    This campaign encompassed Bilal Town, a wealthy suburb where a three-story white house surrounded by 20-foot-high (6-meter) walls drew the curiosity of neighbors. Locals had nicknamed it the "Waziristan Kothi" (the Waziristan Apartment) because its inhabitants kept to themselves and were widely believed to have fled from a blood feud in their native Waziristan, a common occurrence among the tribes along the Afghan border.

    By then, a disgruntled former Pakistani army officer had tipped off the CIA that a prominent al Qaeda militant might be living behind the towering walls of the Waziristan Kothi.

    For U.S. forces, launching a raid on the suspected hideout held many risks. The Pakistani military could shoot down the helicopters or attack the Navy SEALs on the ground. The possibility of a bombing run was ruled out early because there would be no way of collecting a DNA sample from the rubble to prove that bin Laden had been killed.
     

    Well, we still don't have that now, do we.

    Another narrative of the "killing of Bin Laden" tells about Pashtun operators unloaded by a single helicopter into a reasonably well-known local merchant's compound, aggressively milling around a bit, getting back into the helicopter, taking off, then being blown to pink mist mid-air and that's all folks with no Bin Laden or SEAL team seen by anyone nearby, so one might wonder what that NA article is all about.

    , @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press. Instead, there is an intractably vast abundance of news, countless facts which people can’t be expected to remember unless it fits into a well-worn narrative, usually about who or what is Good and who or what is bad.“

    Lol, which you invariably contribute, right?

    “Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door.“

    So that is Bad, based on your interpretation of the facts, in which case, your analysis is Good. Yet, it comes down to Who/Whom.

    Replies: @Gabe Ruth

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Steve Sailer

    You're right. I don't think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe. Therefore, to the extent that the survey data is distorted, it's an UNDERESTIMATE of the true number of people killed. If they walked down the unsafe streets with a high mortality rate, they would've found an even higher death rate.

    The above doesn't even take into account families who were totally annihilated or forced to flee after numerous deaths. If you included that, the number of deaths would've been even higher.

    To the extent that the Lancet Survey is "faked," it's an underestimate.

    I'd lastly mention that the Lancet study excluded the death toll from Fallujah. Mostly because the numbers were too extreme. To the extent that the authors of this study distorted the results, they pushed the numbers in a conservative direction. If they had wanted to inflate the death toll, they would've included Fallujah.

    By the way, the Lancet Survey was later somewhat corroborated by the 2007/2008 ORB London survey. While that survey found larger numbers, it was conducted at a later date too. The ORB figures indicate that Lancet might've underestimated the death toll in Iraq. See below.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB International, an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007.[2][3] In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.

    On 28 January 2008, ORB published an update based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken September 20 to 24, 2007. As a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.[4][5
     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  70. @Thomm
    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel's Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.

    Or is the narrative now that the 9/11 hijackers, while Arab (15 of the 19 were Saudi), were all on Mossad's payroll?


    Hats off to Ron Unz. He is a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew*, as demonstrated by his ability to have this website broadcast multiple contradictory narratives at once in a manner far more systematic than merely an 'unorganized spectrum of opinions'. The WN groups that hate Jews have been thoroughly confused and conquered by RUnzie Baby.


    *That is a specific type of Jew, ya know. A Confuse and Conquer Jew.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Ed Case, @Sean

    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel’s Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.

    Be that as it may, or may not, the official narrative has Saudis led by bin Laden doing 9/11. So Steve has an excellent point inasmuch why is their no memory among the public that Bush opposed airport security paying close attention to Arabs?

    On the other hand, his father when president received an 89% approval rating, the highest presidential job approval rating ever, after the war to expel Saddam’s forces from Kuwait. I think Bush the younger’s approval rating was affected by a perception that 9/11 happening showed he had not done a great job. The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Sean


    which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia
     
    Wasn't that a goal of much of Washington for many decades, or since the Shah fell at least? Bush et al thought it a feature, not a bug. I think they believed some Iraqis would dispose of Saddam, which is common for failed dictators.

    Replies: @Sean

    , @Colin Wright
    @Sean

    'The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.'

    Don't think our support for the Zionist entity had anything to do with that? Bin Laden was just blowing smoke about that part?

    Replies: @Sean

  71. @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid
     
    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge -- if you don't know what that looks like you weren't a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @El Dato, @dearieme, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    When did you start taking Vitamin D and zinc?

    • Replies: @Cato
    @dearieme

    Never did. We missed that somehow. But among the crazy stuff I remember: the virus was said to survive longest on glass and metal, so these became the surfaces we disinfected most thoroughly. Now, of course, we are supposed to worry only about aerosols.

  72. @YetAnotherAnon
    @gandydancer

    From the link.


    "Following Byrd’s death, his family established the James Byrd Foundation for Racial Healing, which ...offers scholarships to people of color"
     
    Shouldn't an organisation for Racial Healing offer scholarships to poor people of any race?

    It's all so tiresome.


    Sean - if I were an Army bigwig I'd make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals - wouldn't you? You want to both make them more pro-American AND encourage other Japanese Americans - even those interned.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I’d make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals –

    They did. The Fighting 442nd of Japanese Americans was famous when I was a kid as the most decorated unit of WWII in Europe.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Steve Sailer

    They were also put into the line in Italy alongside the famous 92nd Division (Buffalo Soldiers) in order to make up for that unit’s very poor performance. It’s amusing to watch Wikipedia’s changing entry on the 92nd Division. Pretty soon it will stand alongside the Tuskegee airmen as one of America’s preeminent fighting units of WWII.
    I think of that every time I reject their pleas for funding.

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Steve Sailer

    SHAEF was a German American, and they as a group presumably received many times more decorations. But there are no memorials for German American internment (albeit much smaller), or for the civilian victims at Hamburg and Dresden.

    On the other hand, the Japanese are constantly reminded of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Manzanar, that they were actually victims in WW2.

    Why this insultingly bogus narrative?

    There are other reason obviously. But till this day the U.S.-Japan Security Treaty (1960) has lasted longer than any other alliance between two great powers formed after the 1648 Peace of Westphalia.

    Post WW2, the Cold War immediately turned hot in Asia and Japan was on the front lines of the Korean War, making them indispensable allies against China and Soviet Union. MacArthur never spent a day in Korea and directed the war entirely from Tokyo.

    Replies: @Dube

  73. @Sean
    @Dieter Kief

    Japanese are conformist by nature.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

    The 442nd Infantry Regiment was an infantry regiment of the United States Army. The regiment is best known as the most decorated in U. S. military history and as a fighting unit composed almost entirely of second-generation American soldiers of Japanese ancestry (Nisei) who fought in World War II. Beginning in 1944, the regiment fought primarily in the European Theatre,[3] in particular Italy, southern France, and Germany.
     

    What sets the West apart is its creativeness. Andreas Wagner's ‘landscape thinking’ that enables an exploration of possibility. Wagner sees a parallel between genetics and innovation inasmuch as one must go into the maladaptive hell of the valley before reaching a new peak. Bush did that, although his 'valley' was to be kind and caring, while the' peak' attained was a stoic and relentless application of armed force as the default option. Now we are back in the valley. Though a master of rhetoric that created to opposite impression, Trump was extremely cautious about actually taking military action. Biden has continues that policy, but it will not survive future events.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Japanese are conformist by nature.

    The nature part may be completed with nurture too (ok – this is stating the obvious).

    But – (some) Asians are indeed very interested in understanding better what kinds of theoretical blind spots their – öh culture (one has to read both words worth the same emphasis to get this passage right: their culture) – what kind of blind spots their culture is suffering from (they do study those books about self-reflection/ and dialog-based open discourses (Dialogizität . s. Gadamer’s Truth and Method) and intersubjectivity even (Habermas Theory of Communicative Action et. al. of his (numerous) books.
    Habermas is big in China too. – The hardest nut to crack for the Chinese intellectual elite will be this kind of self-reflective social theories and their – moral foundation, books like John Steuart Mill’s On Liberty or – on a lesser scale: Jonathan Haidt’s and Greg Lukianoff’s The Coddling of the American Mind and Haidt’s The Righteous Mind.

  74. @El Dato
    @Dieter Kief

    We at least have "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s "Rational Reasoning about Why She's a Witch" scene.

    I would have put it into the Robert E. Lee time capsule Mark II instead of stupid Kente Cloth and the photo of a Black Ballerina performing in front of the graffiti-soaked pedestal.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    I push the sigh & smile button also known as the Mark Twain memorial button for wisdom & humor. Never forget to laugh, when being confronted with the world’s absurdities – – –

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Dieter Kief

    Good advice Dieter- thank you.

  75. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I was speaking out against any war in Iraq from more than a year before and a long war in Afghanistan from 9/26/2001. But ... the Lancet was faked. There is no way that hired Iraqi researchers went door to door in randomly chosen neighborhoods in Iraq in 2006 and asked prying questions. That was a good way to get a hole drilled in your head in 2006:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/updated-depressing-news-of-day/

    "The more I think about the mechanics of carrying out the survey on the street without getting killed, the more I suspect that the Iraqi interviewers didn’t actually implement the purely random survey design that the American professors from MIT and Johns Hopkins dreamed up for them. It would be nuts to to let luck determine which streets you’d choose, as the report claims they did. You’d want to only go where you knew you’d be safe. Then you’d tell the Americans you did exactly what they told you to do."

    Replies: @El Dato, @Corvinus, @JohnnyWalker123

    In any case, a DU baby is not a Good Thing.

    What was I saying. NURSE! Oh yeah:

    Remember the “vaccination drive to find out the whereabouts of Bin Laden” which made polio drives unpalatable in Pakistan?

    He Led the CIA to bin Laden—and Unwittingly Fueled a Vaccine Backlash: Pakistani doctor’s role in health campaign sparked local suspicions that efforts to fight polio were part of a Western plot.

    In his native Pakistan, Dr. Shakil Afridi is considered a traitor by many people for helping the Central Intelligence Agency track down and kill Osama bin Laden. In the United States, he is hailed as a hero.

    Yes, he stars sometimes on “The Simpsons”, doesn’t he?

    In global health circles, his story is a cautionary tale about the consequences that can spiral out of control when health professionals get too close to intelligence operations.

    Stay away from security people. They WILL burn you.

    More than three years after U.S. Navy SEALs raided bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, it remains unclear whether Afridi knew he was working for the CIA when he led a hepatitis B vaccination campaign that helped U.S. agents learn where bin Laden was hiding.

    Why not ask ISI?

    The Abbottabad report says that in January 2011, four months before the raid on bin Laden’s compound, Kate asked Afridi to launch a hepatitis B vaccination campaign in areas near Abbottabad, a military garrison town about 100 miles (160 kilometers) west of Peshawar.

    This campaign encompassed Bilal Town, a wealthy suburb where a three-story white house surrounded by 20-foot-high (6-meter) walls drew the curiosity of neighbors. Locals had nicknamed it the “Waziristan Kothi” (the Waziristan Apartment) because its inhabitants kept to themselves and were widely believed to have fled from a blood feud in their native Waziristan, a common occurrence among the tribes along the Afghan border.

    By then, a disgruntled former Pakistani army officer had tipped off the CIA that a prominent al Qaeda militant might be living behind the towering walls of the Waziristan Kothi.

    For U.S. forces, launching a raid on the suspected hideout held many risks. The Pakistani military could shoot down the helicopters or attack the Navy SEALs on the ground. The possibility of a bombing run was ruled out early because there would be no way of collecting a DNA sample from the rubble to prove that bin Laden had been killed.

    Well, we still don’t have that now, do we.

    Another narrative of the “killing of Bin Laden” tells about Pashtun operators unloaded by a single helicopter into a reasonably well-known local merchant’s compound, aggressively milling around a bit, getting back into the helicopter, taking off, then being blown to pink mist mid-air and that’s all folks with no Bin Laden or SEAL team seen by anyone nearby, so one might wonder what that NA article is all about.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  76. @anonymous

    James Byrd, the Emmett Till-Rodney King of the era, a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas, in order to promote a Hate Crimes law.
     
    Typical Steve Sailer behavior. You just have to mention the murder victim had a criminal record (petty theft) despite any lack of relevance with his murder because pure evil racism couldn't possibly exist.

    On June 7, 1998, Byrd, age 49, accepted a ride from Shawn Berry (age 23), Lawrence Brewer (age 31), and John King (age 23). Berry, who was driving, was acquainted with Byrd from around town. Instead of taking Byrd home, the three men took Byrd to a remote county road out of town, beat him severely, spray-painted his face,[18] urinated and defecated on him,[19] and chained him by his ankles to their pickup truck before dragging him for about three miles (five kilometers). Brewer later claimed that Byrd's throat had been slashed by Berry before he was dragged. However, forensic evidence suggests that Byrd had been attempting to keep his head up while being dragged, and an autopsy suggested that Byrd was alive during much of the dragging. Byrd died about halfway along the route of his dragging, when his right arm and head were severed as his body hit a culvert.[2] While almost all of Byrd's ribs were fractured, his brain and skull were found intact, further suggesting that he maintained consciousness while he was being dragged.[20]

    Berry, Brewer, and King dumped the mutilated remains of Byrd's body in front of an African-American church on Huff Creek Road, then drove off to a barbecue.[21] A motorist found Byrd's decapitated remains the following morning.[22] Along the area where Byrd was dragged, police found a wrench with "Berry" written on it. They also found a lighter that was inscribed with "Possum", which was King's prison nickname.[21] The police found 81 places that included portions of Byrd's remains.[21][23]
     

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag

    The only response is to hand the trio to Marcellus Wallace.

  77. @epebble
    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    It may be better to target Muslim Aliens rather than Arab-Americans while profiling for terrorists. I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists). I sure hope if we have a problem with an African, Asian or Hispanic nation/Non-State Actor someday, we will not racially profile African-Americans, Asian-Americans or Hispanic-Americans but do profile African-Aliens, Asian-Aliens and Hispanic-Aliens.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @gandydancer

    I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists).

    I am. Particularly, as is usual with most crime, if you don’t inflate the total of the category “Americans” with blacks.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    Oh wait, you might be confusing "workplace shootings."

  78. @JohnnyWalker123

    Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

     


    So too bad for the 3000 and their loved ones, but Mineta lived happily ever after:

     

    Have there been any major domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11?

    The primary reason for the 9/11 attacks wasn't PC and lack of racial profiling. If that was the main issue, we would've experienced more attacks in the last two decades (during which PC and anti-profiling has been quite strong).

    The primary reason for 9/11 was that Bush (and the rest of his administration) was lazy, stupid, and feckless. When Bush was elected in 2000, Democrats said he was too stupid to be president.... and they were proven right various times from the beginning of the Bush administration (9/11) through the middle (Iraq, Katrina) and through the end (the 2008 financial collapse).

    When seen from that perspective, 9/11 was just one of many of Bush's blunders. Yet instead of offering critical coverage, our media fawned over the man up through 2005 (Hurricane Katrina). That was the first time when he faced any significant hostile media. Our media revealed themselves to be nothing more than sycophants. We used to criticize the Soviet Union for their "state-owned media," but the U.S. media transformed into something akin to that during the Bush administration.

    While I'm no fan of Clinton-Gore, electing Al Gore was the responsible decision in 2000. Voting for Bush shows us how retarded American voters can be at times. It's unfortunate, but the public was dimwitted to vote for a man of limited IQ and even more limited work ethic.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @Reg Cæsar

    …electing Al Gore was the responsible decision in 2000.

    You are a loon. Nominating Bush was a bad decision, but electing Gore was no cure for that. Trump was pretty crappy, too, but Biden’t was similarly not the cure.

  79. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1436409650451304450

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    Message below:

    Running the Option
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    You Really Don't Want to Get Ventilated
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    Your Odds ...
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 15, 2020

    The Parking Lot Solution
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 12, 2020

    —————————————————

    STRATEGY: SINO CAVITATION

    WINNER: U.S.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FickleImpassionedAmericancrayfish-max-1mb.gif

    Replies: @Cato, @gandydancer, @Feryl

    Still don’t really understand why we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid.

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Nonsense. Yglesias is an idiot. More people died from cancer in 1941 then at Pearl Harbor, but that didn’t mean the reaction to Pearl Harbor was an overreaction.

    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @gandydancer

    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.

    AT 02:17:30

    https://youtu.be/u2w4CGmTQOw?t=8247

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    The worst aspect of the fallout from Covid was when we had to send brave young men and women to the country that used to be Sweden for 24-hour burial and cremation work.

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer


    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.
     
    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  80. An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press. Instead, there is an intractably vast abundance of news, countless facts which people can’t be expected to remember unless it fits into a well-worn narrative, usually about who or what is Good and who or what is bad.

    This is a common human trait. People experience fireworks when they come across certain facts. They assume that’s because those facts are important for the world, but usually it is because those facts, if not taken literally, mean something to them.

    Take the people who went deranged at Trump’s election. If, after their life, they were to make a list of the most difficult events for them, would it really even feature in the top 1000? Or did he just function like a fetish doll for all of their serious and difficult personal challenges?

    • Agree: El Dato, Alden
  81. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican



    Still don’t really understand why we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid.
     
    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    Nonsense. Yglesias is an idiot. More people died from cancer in 1941 then at Pearl Harbor, but that didn't mean the reaction to Pearl Harbor was an overreaction.

    And, no, we haven't underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    Replies: @El Dato, @J.Ross, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.

    AT 02:17:30

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @El Dato


    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.
     
    Don't presume to inform me about things I know far better than you. There is no such thing as "the reaction*, merely a complex web of reactions and further reactions. It's your attempt to deflect from my point that appears to be squid ink.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @El Dato

  82. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1436409650451304450

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    Message below:

    Running the Option
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    You Really Don't Want to Get Ventilated
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 24, 2020

    Your Odds ...
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 15, 2020

    The Parking Lot Solution
    STEVE SAILER • APRIL 12, 2020

    —————————————————

    STRATEGY: SINO CAVITATION

    WINNER: U.S.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FickleImpassionedAmericancrayfish-max-1mb.gif

    Replies: @Cato, @gandydancer, @Feryl

    Actually the “under-reacted” part pertains to the fact that the virus originated from a lab doing “novel” research. Said lab is associated with both America and China*, and Fauci has close ties to said lab. A cover up, no accountability, and even the media and tech companies suppressed knowledge of the lab.

    The very elites who caused this mess now have an excuse for a “reset” involving creeping crypto commie social engineering (meanwhile we can’t secure helicopters in Afghanistan** and can’t secure the Mexican border).

    *I’m beginning to think a good chunk or “our” leaders are China symps.
    **Is Biden, a Clintonite figure of the neo-lib era when we sold out to China, intentionally fubaring our foreign policy to benefit China?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Feryl

    "**Is Biden, a Clintonite figure of the neo-lib era"

    Biden is a skull-headed, disposable stooge for the cabal of American and European billionaires who are currently imposing the Chinese model on the West. Australia is the beta test. The Aussies allowed the Funnel Web Crisis to grow and bloom like an oily black flower in their midst; how exactly can they stop the gang of mannish Anglo Saxon women and soft-face men in their government from herding them into the detention camps where I have no legal right to operate the snack bar concessions?

  83. @Anonymous
    @El Dato


    Yeah… anyone remember Saddam’s Anthrax? Did they ever catch the guy? Maybe he was shifted to gain-of-function research?
     
    The FBI blamed it on a Fort Detrick scientist who committed suicide.


    https://abcnews.go.com/images/US/bruce_ivins_080806_mn.jpg
    Greenwald: The FBI’s Strange Anthrax Investigation Sheds Light On COVID Lab-Leak Theory And Fauci’s Emails

    https://www.nationandstate.com/2021/06/03/greenwald-the-fbis-strange-anthrax-investigation-sheds-light-on-covid-lab-leak-theory-and-faucis-emails/
     

    Replies: @El Dato

    Good to hear that Gleen is still on the case.

    Yes, I more or less remember that show. Ivins, as bio-savvy dude, committed suicide in the most painful way, by ingesting paracetamol to bust his liver.

    Ivins was also smeared as some anime perv lusting after sorority girls. Really bizarre.

    The FBI actually had to find out new science about anthrax bacterium, insofar as apparently it creates a silica surface when hibernating, giving the impression of having been created at an official US lab instead of Ivins’ home. That’s what I remember in any case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.1137

    In 2002, as part of the FBI investigation, scientists at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, used electron microscopy to analyse the composition of the spores. The results were finally made public last month. They found silicon and oxygen in the spore coat, but not on the most external layer, the exosporium. The location of the silicon, the FBI says, suggests that it was incorporated naturally into the structures during growth, not added as a final coating to weaponize them.

    But other experts disagree with the conclusion. “I don’t think the guys at Sandia understand that the exosporium is not some kind of brick wall,” says Stuart Jacobsen, a research chemist based in Dallas, Texas, who is an expert on the preparation and properties of fine-grained powders and has followed the case closely. “It’s more like a chain-link fence.” Decades ago, a study found that the exosporium is porous to various small molecules.

    Well, maybe he DID do it.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @El Dato

    I remember someone telling me he had done some Internet Research and compared the Anthrax Mailer's handwriting with publicly available writing by certain "candidates of interest" and there wouldn't be a match for Iving's handwriting but a very good match form some other guy working at USAMRIID not mentioned by FBI.

    Also, some non-white person styling himself the victim of "structural racism" at USAMRIID and coming across as quite disgruntled and ready to push the button. I need to find back that article.

  84. The Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport in San Jose was named after him in November 2001 when Mineta was serving as Secretary of Transportation. … He left office as the longest-serving Secretary of Transportation in history.

    What happened to the convention of naming things only after the person is dead?

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @The Alarmist


    What happened to the convention of naming things only after the person is dead?
     
    Long dead, if it was ever really a convention. I saw a video yesterday on The Big (Boston) Dig where some congressvermin got his name on a highway while he was in position to get money into the project. The connecting highway between Hwy 280 and 101 at SFO was renamed after a former San Francisco Supervisor and then (I think he was not yet a judge) State Congressvermin. Etc., etc. It pays better if the honoree can reward you.
  85. @El Dato
    @Anonymous

    Good to hear that Gleen is still on the case.

    Yes, I more or less remember that show. Ivins, as bio-savvy dude, committed suicide in the most painful way, by ingesting paracetamol to bust his liver.

    Ivins was also smeared as some anime perv lusting after sorority girls. Really bizarre.

    The FBI actually had to find out new science about anthrax bacterium, insofar as apparently it creates a silica surface when hibernating, giving the impression of having been created at an official US lab instead of Ivins' home. That's what I remember in any case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.1137


    In 2002, as part of the FBI investigation, scientists at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, used electron microscopy to analyse the composition of the spores. The results were finally made public last month. They found silicon and oxygen in the spore coat, but not on the most external layer, the exosporium. The location of the silicon, the FBI says, suggests that it was incorporated naturally into the structures during growth, not added as a final coating to weaponize them.

    But other experts disagree with the conclusion. "I don't think the guys at Sandia understand that the exosporium is not some kind of brick wall," says Stuart Jacobsen, a research chemist based in Dallas, Texas, who is an expert on the preparation and properties of fine-grained powders and has followed the case closely. "It's more like a chain-link fence." Decades ago, a study found that the exosporium is porous to various small molecules.
     

    Well, maybe he DID do it.

    Replies: @El Dato

    I remember someone telling me he had done some Internet Research and compared the Anthrax Mailer’s handwriting with publicly available writing by certain “candidates of interest” and there wouldn’t be a match for Iving’s handwriting but a very good match form some other guy working at USAMRIID not mentioned by FBI.

    Also, some non-white person styling himself the victim of “structural racism” at USAMRIID and coming across as quite disgruntled and ready to push the button. I need to find back that article.

  86. @Sean
    @Thomm


    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel’s Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.
     
    Be that as it may, or may not, the official narrative has Saudis led by bin Laden doing 9/11. So Steve has an excellent point inasmuch why is their no memory among the public that Bush opposed airport security paying close attention to Arabs?

    On the other hand, his father when president received an 89% approval rating, the highest presidential job approval rating ever, after the war to expel Saddam's forces from Kuwait. I think Bush the younger's approval rating was affected by a perception that 9/11 happening showed he had not done a great job. The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Colin Wright

    which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia

    Wasn’t that a goal of much of Washington for many decades, or since the Shah fell at least? Bush et al thought it a feature, not a bug. I think they believed some Iraqis would dispose of Saddam, which is common for failed dictators.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Ralph L

    One reason for Bush the Elder and Scowcroft deciding against overthrowing Saddam was that it might lead to the Shia majority in Saddam's Sunni supremacist state wanting to join with Iran, and Iraq under Saddam was a bulwark against Revolutionary Iran's designs on Saudi Arabia. It's a good point that the Mullahs' Iran was seen as the main threat to the Saud family dictatorship, but I am not sure that there were grounds for continuing to think so after Saddam attempted to annex Kuwait. Saddam's Iraq had a larger population with lots of Sunnis plus a long border with Saudi Arabia. So though lacking his previous wherewithal, Saddam could pursue semi conventional infiltration methods against the regime in Saudi Arabia. I don't think the US really wanted to have an army stationed in Saudi Arabia, but they underestimated the trouble it would cause for the Saudi ruling family regime.

    According to Adnan Khashoggi, America's original mistake was so heavily arming the Shah's Iran. While the US saw the Iran pre Islamic revolution Iran as the America's cop on the ME beat, when all was said and done Iran was not Arab or Sunni and Arab countries all profoundly feared it. I think the Neocon explanation for supporting Israel was that Israel functions as a cop on the ME beat. The adversary trying to control the oil resources of the ME was the Soviet Union, and when that threat became defunct, Islamic Revolutionary Iran became an extremely convenient substitute. There is a lot of 'tail wagging the dog' in these relationships, none more than the one with Israel.

  87. @Altai
    OT: Another Sailer-type MtF is going to enter an MMA competition. This guy also used to be special forces and is only the second ever in professional MMA history after Fallon Fox who beat the ever living shit out of one female opponent. I wonder if history will repeat itself with this fight.

    https://www.outsports.com/platform/amp/2021/9/10/22666320/alana-mclaughlin-celine-provost-mma-combate-global-transgender-athlete-fallon-fox-miami

    Alana McLaughlin’s road to her MMA debut has been a study in patience.

    The South Carolinian was scheduled to fight fellow debutante Celine Provost of France on Combate Global’s Aug. 6 card, making her the first transgender woman to step on the professional MMA stage since Fallon Fox’s last bout seven years ago.

    ...

    The 38-year-old steps into competition having battled through growing up young and queer in “the Buckle of the Bible Belt,” as she said during an appearance on The Trans Sporter Room podcast. She also waded through six years in the U.S. Army special forces, including a tour of duty in Afghanistan.
     
    'waded through'. As if people join special forces by accident as if it was foisted upon him. To join special forces during a war is to say at some level 'Yeah, I don't like these low chances I have to kill somebody in regular infantry' as much as it is about anything else.

    It's almost like these guys are united by personality types low in empathy for others or concern about their opinions, rather like a kind of hyper-masculine psychology rather than a 'female brain'. It does intrigue me if these guys are more likely to desire to be a woman (Maybe a high sex drive from high testosterone producing more intense paraphilia) or if they're just the kinds of guys who are likely to not care about what other people think of them or imposing on others. (Like insisting they let be fight women for money)

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Mike Tre

    Would you be willing to guess that hyper-aggressive males, like those in prison for murder or the sadistic killers in special forces, are just crazy maniacs?

    I want to admire intense masculinity, but not mental illness. Where would you go to observe the nice balance between aggression and restraint in a man? Probably not MMA. Those guys, and many of the people watching them, need to find another outlet for their violence that doesn’t involve beating someone in the head. God help us that there are “women” who also participate in this.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @stillCARealist

    After Altai's mention of Fallon Fox I looked him up and noticed that he'd lost once, to an actual woman. I found the video on YouTube and quite enjoyed seeing her beat him up.

  88. @Steve Sailer
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I’d make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals –

    They did. The Fighting 442nd of Japanese Americans was famous when I was a kid as the most decorated unit of WWII in Europe.

    Replies: @JMcG, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    They were also put into the line in Italy alongside the famous 92nd Division (Buffalo Soldiers) in order to make up for that unit’s very poor performance. It’s amusing to watch Wikipedia’s changing entry on the 92nd Division. Pretty soon it will stand alongside the Tuskegee airmen as one of America’s preeminent fighting units of WWII.
    I think of that every time I reject their pleas for funding.

  89. @Dieter Kief
    @El Dato

    I push the sigh & smile button also known as the Mark Twain memorial button for wisdom & humor. Never forget to laugh, when being confronted with the world's absurdities - - -

    Replies: @JMcG

    Good advice Dieter- thank you.

  90. @bombthe3gorgesdam
    What was the declared motive for those white supremacists who murdered James Byrd? I just looked at the wikipedia page for the murder, but couldn't see anything about motive. Why did James Byrd accept a ride from these flamboyant white supremacists, whose racial views were literally tattooed all over their bodies? Was it really just another drug deal gone bad? Pure hatred for the color of Byrd's skin (that's the conclusion you'd have to draw from the wikipedia page)? One of the murderers, who was eventually executed by the state, claimed to have been repeatedly raped by Blacks in jail before the murder, so, was it revenge for those rapes? You write that James Byrd was a criminal, but that information is not on the wikipedia page for his murder. What sort of criminal was he, and is there a better source of information about him and his murder than wikipedia?

    Replies: @Alden, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    Byrd’s murder was in every newspaper and TV news program for months after the murder. Again and again it was stated and confirmed that Byrd and his murderers had been in the same state prison for years. And all knew each other. Only felons, not misdeamants are sent to state prison.

    Since Byrd was in state prison he was a felon.

    Every time an ignorant MAN OF UNZ cites wikepedia the more contempt and disdain I have for him.

    At least the MSM reported the truth that James Byrd was a career criminal at the time of his death.

    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @Alden

    Well, if you have such great contempt for me because I referred to a wikipedia page, why not set me straight with a link to a better source of information? I plainly stated in my comment that I found wikipedia lacking as a useful source on this subject.

  91. No Muslims in America…no 9/11

    No Muslims in America…no 1993 attack on the TT..

    No Muslims in America…no Pakistani Muslim sentencing 601…Infowars Owen Shoyer makes 601…to Federal Prison..

    It’s called counterfactual epistemology….

  92. @Balaji
    Steve, of course you are right about the righteousness of non-profiling.

    But if you read the articles of our host, Ron Unz, you may hesitate in blaming the 19 Arab hijackers for all 3000 deaths. They can fairly be held responsible for the deaths of the passengers and crew of the planes they hijacked as well as people on the floos of the buildings that were struck - a few hundred people. But could some other party be responsible for the other deaths? Perhaps this other party should be held responsible for all the deaths and even facilitated the hijackings partly through a policy of non-profiling?

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    you may hesitate in blaming the 19 Arab hijackers for all 3000 deaths. They can fairly be held responsible for the deaths of the passengers and crew of the planes they hijacked

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Do you blame Waleed Al Shehri who the FBI named as one of the Hijackers?

    Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

    The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

    Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

    Or does he, like the other three, get a pass for doing a great Lazarus act?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.

  93. @Altai
    OT: Another Sailer-type MtF is going to enter an MMA competition. This guy also used to be special forces and is only the second ever in professional MMA history after Fallon Fox who beat the ever living shit out of one female opponent. I wonder if history will repeat itself with this fight.

    https://www.outsports.com/platform/amp/2021/9/10/22666320/alana-mclaughlin-celine-provost-mma-combate-global-transgender-athlete-fallon-fox-miami

    Alana McLaughlin’s road to her MMA debut has been a study in patience.

    The South Carolinian was scheduled to fight fellow debutante Celine Provost of France on Combate Global’s Aug. 6 card, making her the first transgender woman to step on the professional MMA stage since Fallon Fox’s last bout seven years ago.

    ...

    The 38-year-old steps into competition having battled through growing up young and queer in “the Buckle of the Bible Belt,” as she said during an appearance on The Trans Sporter Room podcast. She also waded through six years in the U.S. Army special forces, including a tour of duty in Afghanistan.
     
    'waded through'. As if people join special forces by accident as if it was foisted upon him. To join special forces during a war is to say at some level 'Yeah, I don't like these low chances I have to kill somebody in regular infantry' as much as it is about anything else.

    It's almost like these guys are united by personality types low in empathy for others or concern about their opinions, rather like a kind of hyper-masculine psychology rather than a 'female brain'. It does intrigue me if these guys are more likely to desire to be a woman (Maybe a high sex drive from high testosterone producing more intense paraphilia) or if they're just the kinds of guys who are likely to not care about what other people think of them or imposing on others. (Like insisting they let be fight women for money)

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Mike Tre

    I perused a couple other articles about this freak, and the references to his “special forces” background are purposely vague. He was a medic and claims to have performed amputations. The Army likes to tout the Rangers as “special forces” if indeed that’s the unit he was assigned to, but that’s a bit sensational in my observation. He comes across to me a typical army enlistee, meaning unexceptional.

    As to your comment:

    “It’s almost like these guys are united by personality types low in empathy for others or concern about their opinions, rather like a kind of hyper-masculine psychology rather than a ‘female brain’.:

    Really? Because what you just described is exactly what I experience when dealing with female CSR’s at the doctor’s office, in line to check out at a store, and or at restaurants.

    “It does intrigue me if these guys are more likely to desire to be a woman (Maybe a high sex drive from high testosterone producing more intense paraphilia)”

    You are a very astute commenter here, but this is nonsense. High T men are the men who protect their women from harm, not the other way around. Like I have said before, the vastly larger number of spergs who want to be and attempt to transition into women are never heard about in the news because that doesn’t assert the anti (white)masculine narrative being pushed so hard. The media loves pushing the “high T (in white men) bad” meme. High T white men built western civilization and established chivalry, not medium T desk warmers.

    Further, this binary assertion that high T is the sole cause of transsexualism is nonsense. I would assert that high T levels are probably the last thing that lead to transsexualism. Drug abuse, sexual abuse, significant neglect, pathological attention seeking, fashion victimization have much more to do with it.

    Everyday you can find dozens of new videos of black women brawling in stores and schools. You cannot say that about white men. They have vastly less T than white men, and that is pretty strong evidence against the high T = violence myth.

  94. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    And of course, more than half of all foreign born Muslims in the US came here in 2000 or later. I'd estimate we have at least another half million who just got here or are on the way from Afghanistan alone. Probably many more.

    Muslims have a reputation as gracious hosts, and I've found them to be kind and hospitable in their home countries. But as 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Manchester, Rotherham, Paris, Cologne, the Swedish rape epidemic, San Bernardino, the Pulse nightclub, and countless other events have proven, they are the World's Worst Guests.

    Replies: @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Benny Meyer, @Change that Matters, @Abolish_public_education, @Reg Cæsar, @Deadite

    After 911 I expected immigration to tighten up. It never did. Instead Bush expanded it more than Clinton had (I now think of Clinton as slightly better than Bush, but only because he had Newt to work with).

    I also expected heads to roll. Anyone remember how Bush promoted Tenant instead of canning his ass?

    The deep state was in operation even then.

  95. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    To the upper reaches of the deep state, that isn’t a bug. It’s a feature.

    Debat, discussion of ancient and modern philosophies, and. It the trash that has replaced it, and the desire to drive logic and true historical knowledge out of the classroom make for a subservient people.

    That we lose creativity along the way, well, who cares if there’s another app available on my iPhone?

  96. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    😬

  97. And don’t forget that Bush appointed Condoleezza Rice as his national security advisor, who later said nobody could ever have imagined hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings, even though the idea had been part of a Tom Clancy novel.

    So then this utterly incompetent National Security Advisor who let down the president so badly was then promoted to Secretary of State.

    Bush was then advised to reinstate torture in the form of waterboarding, a crime for which the United States had previously executed foreigners.

    But then, as Bush later said, “I am the decider.”

    Unfortunately.

    Bush was without a doubt the worst president in American history–until Trump dethroned him. There is a good case to argue that Bush ought to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein.

    I don’t always agree with iSteve, but he is right about Bush Jr.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Jonathan Mason

    even though the idea had been part of a Tom Clancy novel

    The crashing into a building part, but not the hijacking (perp was already the pilot of the plane). Still, it was a stupid thing for her to claim. If we had perfect airline security, they would have done something else. We were just lucky it was only 3,000 dead.

    It is hard to imagine now how Al Gore & co. could have been worse, but I'm sure they would have tried.

    , @gandydancer
    @Jonathan Mason


    Bush was without a doubt the worst president in American history–until Trump dethroned him. There is a good case to argue that Bush ought to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein.
     
    Recentism. Blatant, obvious, puerile recentism. Also TDS. Trump wasn't good, but he was better than, say, Obama OR Bush. Either Bush.

    My candidate for "recent" worst is LBJ.

  98. @Ed Case
    @Thomm

    The narrative is:
    There were no planes, no Arabs, no hijackings, and 3 buildings in Manhattan were demoed by pros while people were still inside 2 of the buildings.
    It appears the most reasonable conclusion, all the other theories require magical thinking.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Thomm

    To get the “no planes” idea working you must posit magical tech.

    Basically be inside a Hideo Kojima game.

    It appears the most reasonable conclusion

    A “conclusion” is not a “narrative” and as “narrative” that one is horsepucky.

    • Agree: gandydancer
  99. @Anonymous
    Another point about George W. Bush:

    Anyone who can remember his eight years of misrule will, surely, recall his many, many persistent and blatant attempts either to proclaim a so-called "amnesty" for illegal immigrants - which in reality, of course, is merely a reward and prize for successfully breaking the law and evading justice - and attempt after attempt to force through 'open borders' legislation. Of course in doing these things he was merely getting brownie points from the trendy neolibs and neocons who ruled the 'intellectual' roost at the time.

    Anyhow, this perfidy and stupidity was more or less thwarted and stymied by the good ol fashioned yeoman American middle class. They got wind of the flatulence emanating from the White House, and with every immigrationist parp emitted by the more intellectual end of the Bush alimentary canal besieged Congress and White House switchboards with the gist of ' if you do this, I'll never vote Republican again'.
    This 'peasants revolt' had the desired effect, and Bush was cowed from doing what he so dearly wished ....

    Replies: @El Dato

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/real-message-of-the-bush-amnesty/

    If George Bush’s amnesty for between 8 million and 14 million illegal aliens is enacted, you can kiss the old America goodbye.

  100. Trump’s presidency was threatened, and effectively hamstrung, by allegations which were obviously (and eventually admitted by the accusers) to be completely false. “Good data crowded out in the need to know Is Coffee Good For You” and “Sapir-Whorfing away inconvenient facts” are perfectly good theses, which are not strengthened by pretending that flat-out newsmedia lying is not a major (and an increasing) problem. I would have replied sooner but forty-three different hospitals had to reject me, and that took forever. I am Bryan Williams, and, let me tell you, it’s better than being that little creep Jeffrey Toobin, but still nothing like what Kurt Eichenwald has to go through every day with his condition.

  101. @Jonathan Mason
    And don't forget that Bush appointed Condoleezza Rice as his national security advisor, who later said nobody could ever have imagined hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings, even though the idea had been part of a Tom Clancy novel.

    So then this utterly incompetent National Security Advisor who let down the president so badly was then promoted to Secretary of State.

    Bush was then advised to reinstate torture in the form of waterboarding, a crime for which the United States had previously executed foreigners.

    But then, as Bush later said, "I am the decider."

    Unfortunately.

    Bush was without a doubt the worst president in American history--until Trump dethroned him. There is a good case to argue that Bush ought to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein.

    I don't always agree with iSteve, but he is right about Bush Jr.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @gandydancer

    even though the idea had been part of a Tom Clancy novel

    The crashing into a building part, but not the hijacking (perp was already the pilot of the plane). Still, it was a stupid thing for her to claim. If we had perfect airline security, they would have done something else. We were just lucky it was only 3,000 dead.

    It is hard to imagine now how Al Gore & co. could have been worse, but I’m sure they would have tried.

  102. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican



    Still don’t really understand why we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid.
     
    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    Nonsense. Yglesias is an idiot. More people died from cancer in 1941 then at Pearl Harbor, but that didn't mean the reaction to Pearl Harbor was an overreaction.

    And, no, we haven't underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    Replies: @El Dato, @J.Ross, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The worst aspect of the fallout from Covid was when we had to send brave young men and women to the country that used to be Sweden for 24-hour burial and cremation work.

  103. @gandydancer
    @epebble


    I am not aware of many Arab-American terrorists (at least in a ratio larger than American terrorists).
     
    I am. Particularly, as is usual with most crime, if you don't inflate the total of the category "Americans" with blacks.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Oh wait, you might be confusing “workplace shootings.”

  104. There is a pretty interesting account of 9/11 in today’s Daily Mail based on contemporaneous diary entries by Piers Morgan published in book form–Morgan was the editor of a wide circulation daily tabloid in London at the time of 9/11.

    Naturally Morgan, on hearing of the bombing, immediately fingered Bin Laden as he had been (alledgedly) responsible for prior attempts to destroy the World Trade Center.

    WEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER

    President Bush looked and sounded completely stunned today, close to tears and almost foaming with anger. He is not the kind of man to take this lightly. ‘We will crush this new, deadly enemy,’ he said ominously.

    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.

    THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER

    An amazing photograph came in today of a New York fireman going up the towers after the planes had struck wide-eyed, frightened. I rang Andy Lines, our US correspondent over there, and told him to drop everything and find that guy if he is still alive.

    FRIDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER

    Andy found the fireman. He’d traced his station from the number on his helmet, gone down there and gently asked if the man in the photo had made it. ‘Sure, Mike’s upstairs asleep,’ came the reply. Andy went up and found Mike Kehoe lying on the floor. He woke to tell us his amazing story of incredible heroism. ‘I just did my job,’ he said. Yeah, right.

    Bush is playing to type now, saying he wants Bin Laden’s ‘head on a platter’. Our leader article today urged a note of caution. These are scary times, and it worries me that we have this trigger-happy Texan in charge of our response. It really does.

    [Interesting that Bush’s choice of that phrase from the King James Bible casts himself in the role of King Herod, and Bin Laden as John the Baptist!]

    MONDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER

    Bush is out of control, declaring: ‘There’s an old poster out West that said: “Wanted, dead or alive” – Bin Laden’s the prime suspect and I want justice.’ He thinks he’s John Wayne.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978209/In-extract-book-Insider-PIERS-MORGAN-recalls-watching-9-11-unfold.html

    It doesn’t seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq and the hanging of Saddam Hussein, but apparently he received calls from Tony Blair’s director of communications Alistair Campbell saying “When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them”, which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush’s poodle.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Jonathan Mason


    It doesn’t seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq
     
    In spite of all the The Economist covers of Saddam being "weapons of mass destruction" tier evil with Clinton (NB the "weapons of mass destruction" construction -- did that exist before Gulf War II?), it needed the Anthrax to get that one going.

    "When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them”, which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush’s poodle.
     
    T'was show. Lying is Campbell's job description. One may remember Blair productions' Freudian "Saddam can launch missiles in 45 minutes" (you know, "sexing up the evidence") as obtained from a cab driver) and the guy (David Kelly) who insisted that there were no such weapons and somehow (improbably) suicided himself in the woods by cutting his veins after a good fat hounding by UK Sturm & Drang "press" (they didn't accuse him of antisemitism back in those times though, so he was spared that particular ignominy).

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @gandydancer
    @Jonathan Mason

    Morgan:


    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.
     
    We all saw the jumpers, but if Morgan didn't see the bodies on TV he thinks they vanished into a wormhole.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  105. @Jonathan Mason
    There is a pretty interesting account of 9/11 in today's Daily Mail based on contemporaneous diary entries by Piers Morgan published in book form--Morgan was the editor of a wide circulation daily tabloid in London at the time of 9/11.

    Naturally Morgan, on hearing of the bombing, immediately fingered Bin Laden as he had been (alledgedly) responsible for prior attempts to destroy the World Trade Center.

    WEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER

    President Bush looked and sounded completely stunned today, close to tears and almost foaming with anger. He is not the kind of man to take this lightly. ‘We will crush this new, deadly enemy,’ he said ominously.

    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.

    THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER

    An amazing photograph came in today of a New York fireman going up the towers after the planes had struck wide-eyed, frightened. I rang Andy Lines, our US correspondent over there, and told him to drop everything and find that guy if he is still alive.

    FRIDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER

    Andy found the fireman. He’d traced his station from the number on his helmet, gone down there and gently asked if the man in the photo had made it. ‘Sure, Mike’s upstairs asleep,’ came the reply. Andy went up and found Mike Kehoe lying on the floor. He woke to tell us his amazing story of incredible heroism. ‘I just did my job,’ he said. Yeah, right.

    Bush is playing to type now, saying he wants Bin Laden’s ‘head on a platter’. Our leader article today urged a note of caution. These are scary times, and it worries me that we have this trigger-happy Texan in charge of our response. It really does.

    [Interesting that Bush's choice of that phrase from the King James Bible casts himself in the role of King Herod, and Bin Laden as John the Baptist!]

    MONDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER

    Bush is out of control, declaring: ‘There’s an old poster out West that said: “Wanted, dead or alive” - Bin Laden’s the prime suspect and I want justice.’ He thinks he’s John Wayne.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978209/In-extract-book-Insider-PIERS-MORGAN-recalls-watching-9-11-unfold.html

    It doesn't seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq and the hanging of Saddam Hussein, but apparently he received calls from Tony Blair's director of communications Alistair Campbell saying "When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them", which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush's poodle.

    Replies: @El Dato, @gandydancer

    It doesn’t seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq

    In spite of all the The Economist covers of Saddam being “weapons of mass destruction” tier evil with Clinton (NB the “weapons of mass destruction” construction — did that exist before Gulf War II?), it needed the Anthrax to get that one going.

    “When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them”, which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush’s poodle.

    T’was show. Lying is Campbell’s job description. One may remember Blair productions’ Freudian “Saddam can launch missiles in 45 minutes” (you know, “sexing up the evidence”) as obtained from a cab driver) and the guy (David Kelly) who insisted that there were no such weapons and somehow (improbably) suicided himself in the woods by cutting his veins after a good fat hounding by UK Sturm & Drang “press” (they didn’t accuse him of antisemitism back in those times though, so he was spared that particular ignominy).

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @El Dato


    ...the “weapons of mass destruction” construction — did that exist before Gulf War II?
     
    Guernica, 1937. Wikipedia is good for some things. But, yes, I gather that we agree that at some point it became an attempt to steal sizzle from nuclear bombs for infinitely less-scary things.

    Replies: @Ralph L

  106. I can’t prove it (the profile is top-secret) but I’ll bet that Arab-Americans wishing to avoid airport profiling could simply wear a travel sport coat. These are anti-wrinkle, washable, comfortable, and inexpensive. The pockets are quite convenient; I don’t know what I would do without the pockets; it’s like a woman’s handbag. Mineta’s ancestors, by contrast, would not have avoided FDR’s internment by wearing a sport coat; they were interned because they were decent, and the sport coat would have made them appear even more decent.

  107. @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    I believe, sure as I'm sittin' here, that most Americans really care. They're tolerant people. They're good, tolerant people. It's the very few that create most of the crises, and we just have to find them and deal with them.
     
    I wonder what George Bush meant by this?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “I wonder what George Bush meant by this?”

    Bush II was an underachieving alcoholic before he became the PNAC puppet. He is quite sensitive and emotional and probably was the victim of some kind of abuse when he was a child. He has a tendency to be unguarded in his words and facial expressions.

    “It’s the very few that create most of the crises”

    He was projecting here; he was speaking about his family and the elite networks that surrounded him. Bush II’s mother, America’s Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley. Knowing what he came from, I had some sympathy for Bush II.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @SunBakedSuburb


    Bush II’s mother, America’s Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley.
     
    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me. But, for the record, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVHg-XVzGo

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    , @Anonymous
    @SunBakedSuburb

    That salacious piece of gossip simply cannot be true:

    George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to Aleister Crowley's grandson.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  108. @Feryl
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Actually the "under-reacted" part pertains to the fact that the virus originated from a lab doing "novel" research. Said lab is associated with both America and China*, and Fauci has close ties to said lab. A cover up, no accountability, and even the media and tech companies suppressed knowledge of the lab.

    The very elites who caused this mess now have an excuse for a "reset" involving creeping crypto commie social engineering (meanwhile we can't secure helicopters in Afghanistan** and can't secure the Mexican border).

    *I'm beginning to think a good chunk or "our" leaders are China symps.
    **Is Biden, a Clintonite figure of the neo-lib era when we sold out to China, intentionally fubaring our foreign policy to benefit China?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    **Is Biden, a Clintonite figure of the neo-lib era”

    Biden is a skull-headed, disposable stooge for the cabal of American and European billionaires who are currently imposing the Chinese model on the West. Australia is the beta test. The Aussies allowed the Funnel Web Crisis to grow and bloom like an oily black flower in their midst; how exactly can they stop the gang of mannish Anglo Saxon women and soft-face men in their government from herding them into the detention camps where I have no legal right to operate the snack bar concessions?

  109. So Steve still believes the official government-sponsored conspiracy theory about 9/11? Yikes.

  110. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    “estimated”

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Uncle Dan


    "estimated"
     
    Clarifying what I take it to be what you were pointing out, the quote was

    "...estimated 654,965 excess deaths..."
     
    and the "estimate" was both made and reported by mathematical/statistical illiterates.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Uncle Dan

    Yes, estimated. Sort of how we estimate lots of things from public polling/sampling.

    It's not physically possible to count every person, especially in a war zone.

  111. @Abolish_public_education
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I was only half paying attention to the TV, but the reporter narrated something about how great it was that some marooned Americans had finally gotten out of Afghanistan. The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase.

    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California's favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.

    Replies: @Thea, @AceDeuce

    The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase

    Maybe our leaders are really right wing MRA white sharia promoters who just pretend to be woke leftists.

    Like 4D chess.

  112. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    We normally say that murder numbers are gold because you can’t fake a body, but this atrocious estimating is a case of deaths not borne out by a pound of flesh.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @J.Ross

    Fine. Cut the numbers in half. Cut them in 10. Still atrocious.

    The Muslims have suffered exponentially more from American aggression than we've suffered from their terrorism.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @J.Ross

    Fine. Divide the number in 2. Divide it in 10. It's still astronomically larger than the number killed on 9/11.

    By the way, the U.S. has spent $8 trillion on its "War on Terror." Given that America spent HALF that sum on WWII and killed such a massive number of people during that conflict, the above referenced "War on Terror" numbers are totally plausible. Especially given how much more powerful bombs and munitions have gotten since then.

    https://www.brown.edu/news/2021-09-01/costsofwar

    The problem with the above-referenced "War on Terror" numbers isn't that they're fake. The problem is that those numbers are politically incorrect.

    Most Americans are invested in a narrative that promotes themselves as victims and Muslims as aggressors. Most posters here are invested in a broader narrative of White victimization and Non-White perfidy. That's why the above numbers are politically incorrect. All of that contradicts the narrative.

  113. a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas,

    He was an alcoholic with sticky fingers. Quite functionally irrelevant to what happened to him on the last day of his life.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Art Deco


    [Byrd Jr.] was an alcoholic with sticky fingers. Quite functionally irrelevant to what happened to him on the last day of his life.
     
    Sailer says he was "a black criminal". Anonymous[299] says "Apparently one of the murderers knew Byrd in prison and this was payback for something or other." Someone else claimed something along the same lines. Biography.com says he spent YEARS in prison for "petty theft". Wikipedia says nada about his record, if any -- just a family man and vacuum cleaner salesman, iirc. Now, if I were betting I'd guess he was a more serious criminal than you imply (you don't generally get years in prison for shoplifting, though that may be the charge after the plea deal), but that he may well have been killed for being black. However this disagreement requires more than your ipse dixit to clear up.
  114. @Ed Case
    @Thomm

    The narrative is:
    There were no planes, no Arabs, no hijackings, and 3 buildings in Manhattan were demoed by pros while people were still inside 2 of the buildings.
    It appears the most reasonable conclusion, all the other theories require magical thinking.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Thomm

    There were no planes, no Arabs,

    Yes, so then why this article about Arabs being profiled or not? That should not matter at all, if Arabs were not the perps.

    • Replies: @Ed Case
    @Thomm


    Yes, so then why this article about Arabs being profiled or not? That should not matter at all, if Arabs were not the perps.
     
    Because while Arabs got the blame, they still weren't profiled after the attacks.

    The Conditioning is that combatting perceived Racial Prejudice is a bigger issue than preventing plane hijackings.
  115. @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous

    Bush and Biden - They hate us for our freedom.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous

    It’s funny, ‘cause it’s true.

  116. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia and Afghanistan are pretty much the worse places on earth, but you cannot blame all of that on the War on Terror.

    Libya should be blamed on the War on Libya. Totally different war!

    Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia are partially war on terror, partially on their utterly insane population and a good chunk on Islam.

    Iraq and Syria, part war on terror, part British and French foreign offices after WW1. They are artificial entities entirely. They were never going to work. Not when minority tribal groups ran them. Sooner or later, an attempted near genocidal war was coming.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
    @Anonymous

    They are all part of the Oded Yinon War on Israel's neighbours, as outlined in Kivunim magazine in 1982. A campaign in the 3500 year war of Judaism against the rest.

  117. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I was speaking out against any war in Iraq from more than a year before and a long war in Afghanistan from 9/26/2001. But ... the Lancet was faked. There is no way that hired Iraqi researchers went door to door in randomly chosen neighborhoods in Iraq in 2006 and asked prying questions. That was a good way to get a hole drilled in your head in 2006:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/updated-depressing-news-of-day/

    "The more I think about the mechanics of carrying out the survey on the street without getting killed, the more I suspect that the Iraqi interviewers didn’t actually implement the purely random survey design that the American professors from MIT and Johns Hopkins dreamed up for them. It would be nuts to to let luck determine which streets you’d choose, as the report claims they did. You’d want to only go where you knew you’d be safe. Then you’d tell the Americans you did exactly what they told you to do."

    Replies: @El Dato, @Corvinus, @JohnnyWalker123

    “An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press. Instead, there is an intractably vast abundance of news, countless facts which people can’t be expected to remember unless it fits into a well-worn narrative, usually about who or what is Good and who or what is bad.“

    Lol, which you invariably contribute, right?

    “Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door.“

    So that is Bad, based on your interpretation of the facts, in which case, your analysis is Good. Yet, it comes down to Who/Whom.

    • Replies: @Gabe Ruth
    @Corvinus

    Sounds like you need a reboot brother

    Replies: @Corvinus

  118. @bombthe3gorgesdam
    What was the declared motive for those white supremacists who murdered James Byrd? I just looked at the wikipedia page for the murder, but couldn't see anything about motive. Why did James Byrd accept a ride from these flamboyant white supremacists, whose racial views were literally tattooed all over their bodies? Was it really just another drug deal gone bad? Pure hatred for the color of Byrd's skin (that's the conclusion you'd have to draw from the wikipedia page)? One of the murderers, who was eventually executed by the state, claimed to have been repeatedly raped by Blacks in jail before the murder, so, was it revenge for those rapes? You write that James Byrd was a criminal, but that information is not on the wikipedia page for his murder. What sort of criminal was he, and is there a better source of information about him and his murder than wikipedia?

    Replies: @Alden, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    Yeah, I remember that. Apparently one of the murderers knew Byrd in prison and this was payback for something or other.

    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @Anonymous

    Interesting, thank you. Wikipedia says the murderers were performing all sorts of theatrics in the courtroom, heiling hitler and boasting that they were proud of what they had done. But if they were so proud of the gruesome murder they had committed, it must have been motivated by something other than simple hatred for the color of Byrd's skin. These boys must have seen thousands of blacks in their lives, but they decided to murder only one, Byrd, and in such a way as to make "an example" of him by leaving his decapitated corpse on a Black church's doorstep. Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that's Google 2021 for you.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @mulga mumblebrain

  119. @Almost Missouri

    Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

    On September 21, 2001, Mineta sent a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from practicing racial profiling; or subjecting Middle Eastern or Muslim passengers to a heightened degree of pre-flight scrutiny. He stated that it was illegal for the airlines to discriminate against passengers based on their race, color, national or ethnic origin or religion. Subsequently, administrative enforcement actions were brought against three different airlines based on alleged contraventions of these rules, resulting in multimillion-dollar settlements.
     

     
    In the spirit clarity, maybe it is best if rather than referring to "Democrat Norman Mineta, longest serving Secretary of Transportation", we simply refer to him as "unindicted terrorism conspirator Noman Mineta".

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “In the spirit clarity, maybe it is best if rather than referring to “Democrat Norman Mineta, longest serving Secretary of Transportation”, we simply refer to him as “unindicted terrorism conspirator Noman Mineta”.

    No, that would not compute. You must relish narrative spin as much as iSteve.

  120. @Stan Adams
    At the time, the media reaction to the debates was dominated by the idea that Al Gore was "too aggressive" (argumentative, frequently interrupting Bush) in the first one and "too passive" in the second one. There was virtually no discussion of any of the issues that were actually discussed, although Saturday Night Live did ridicule Gore's frequent references to a Social Security "lockbox."

    Incidentally, the USS Cole attack occurred on October 12, 2000. There was a major riot on the West Bank on the same day, so the two incidents got lumped together into the "Middle East in turmoil" category. Osama bin Laden's name appeared frequently in the news over the next few days, but he remained obscure to most Americans until 9/11.

    His name first came to widespread public attention in the United States following the embassy bombings in Africa in August 1998. This attack prompted the Wag the Dog-esque airstrikes in Afghanistan and Sudan just three days after Bill Clinton admitted that he had an "inappropriate" (but technically non-sexual) relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

    There's a funny clip of Clinton pronouncing "Usama" bin Laden's name as You-sah-ma bin Lay-den.

    Replies: @Prester John

    Back in February of 1993 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (still languishing in Gitmo) financed an attempt to TOPPLE one of the towers. Mercifully the attempt failed. Eight years or so later the same crowd finished the job, this time by hijacking passenger aircraft and making like kamikaze pilots. By then Bill Clinton, who had just assumed office a month prior to the first attack, was gone. Leaving aside the controversies surrounding what was actually done, it was left up to the Bush administration to take action on the domestic front–which was something that should have been done eight years before.

    The failure of the Clinton administration to take some kind of action after the first attack remains the single greatest failure of his administration.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Prester John

    some kind of action

    They arrested, tried and sentenced Ramzi Yousef, the architect of the attack. He is serving a Life sentence in Colorado.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef#1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing

    What else would you have recommended?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  121. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican



    Still don’t really understand why we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid.
     
    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    Nonsense. Yglesias is an idiot. More people died from cancer in 1941 then at Pearl Harbor, but that didn't mean the reaction to Pearl Harbor was an overreaction.

    And, no, we haven't underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    Replies: @El Dato, @J.Ross, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Looked like an utter wall of crap and still does. If you didn't mean what you said that's on you.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  122. @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    we overreacted so much to 3,000 dead on 9/11 and underreacted so much to 200x (and counting!) fatalities from Covid
     
    We overreacted to 3,000 dead on 9/11 because it was the biggest PTSD-generator since the JFK assassination. We saw the jumpers, and we saw the office workers staggering out of the clouds of dust covered with a crusty layer of gray ash. Suppressed rage and thirsting for revenge -- if you don't know what that looks like you weren't a conscious adult in the USA on 2001/09/11.

    The neocons exploited our horror and got what they wanted, and for that they deserve one of the higher circles of hell, but all of us were hungering for justice to roll down like waters.

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household. We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house. Our masks were disinfected with alcohol every time we took them off. When walking in the woods, we would veer off the trail to keep six feet from those coming from the opposite direction. We stopped seeing the friends who previously had come for dinner.

    True, we relaxed over time as we understood more about the true sources of danger, but the fact is that we dramatically over-reacted in those early stages of Covid.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @El Dato, @dearieme, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household.

    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    • Replies: @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    "LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing."

    Those words were Yglesias', not yours.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  123. “There is little cultural overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home. But in their disdain for pluralism, in their disregard for human life, in their determination to defile national symbols, they are children of the same foul spirit.”

    —George W. Bush, in a speech remembering the heroes of 911 in Pennsylvania, and in the context of January 6

    Do some NOTICING, Mr. Sailer, rather than remain cagey.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Corvinus

    In a spirit of reconciliation Biden should now issue George W Bush an official pardon for his war crimes and erect a statue to him in Wall St. In recognition of his good work in bailing out the banking industry which collapsed just before he was disinaugurated.

  124. • Thanks: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/Peter_Nimitz/status/1436710799171489796

    Replies: @Anonymous, @vinteuil

  125. @Thomm
    @Ed Case


    There were no planes, no Arabs,
     
    Yes, so then why this article about Arabs being profiled or not? That should not matter at all, if Arabs were not the perps.

    Replies: @Ed Case

    Yes, so then why this article about Arabs being profiled or not? That should not matter at all, if Arabs were not the perps.

    Because while Arabs got the blame, they still weren’t profiled after the attacks.

    The Conditioning is that combatting perceived Racial Prejudice is a bigger issue than preventing plane hijackings.

  126. Apologies if anyone said this. I haven’t read the whole thread.

    The media were in a pickle, assuming any of them remembered Bush’s “don’t profile Arabs” remark. While 9/11 was a shock, they kept their top goal, the Great Replacement, in mind, and chose strategies to further it. I’m sure you here’s a word for that. I’d much appreciate it if someone told me, They could not say “not profiling Arabs caused 9/11,” because the rubes would be vindicated and the normies would start to think both that different behavior from members of a group justified treating the group differently and that we not only have a right to defend ourselves from hostile foreigners but are justified in being frightened of black street crime.

    [MORE]

    On the other hand, lots of them live and work in NYC and DC, the top targets for any big attack. They do not think that that a people’s innate characteristics interact with culture to cause people to act in certain ways. Also, a people’s innate temperament strongly influences what cultural traits they adopt. The media are progressives, quite possibly the core of the ideology, and they think external circumstances alone cause people to do stuff. They honestly think that “radical Islam” comes from imams and can be countered with being nicer and showing that Muslims can integrate into the west. But hardcore Muslims have another idea of what converting Muslims to western ways: corrupting, leafing astray, causing apostasy, in their eyes, we turn good Muslims into bad Muslims. Especially that we corrupt women, turning them into barren, drunken sluts. Just like (their image) western women. Not to mention, Muslims probably have an inferiority complex, because westerners did the industrial and scientific revolutions. That’s driven them deep into “well, you may be rich and powerful, and those of us who are rich are only so because they live over the oil that powers your civilization, but we are spiritually superior” encouraging muslim ‘s to dive deeper into religion. If they weren’t smart enough to live over a sea of oil, their only real shot at escaping poverty is western education. It is really no surprise that so many terrorists were engineers by education.

    That’s a cultural explanation, but the proof that there are bio social causes is the Iranians do not become suicide bombers.

    Oh, back to media, they think that Muslims can be integrated into western culture, with free women and Pride month. That Muslims do not want that is often, and hilariously, blamed on their villains du jour, white conservatives. After the Tsarnaev bombing, online progs were saying, “oh sure, they were Muslims, but it is the fault of white conservatives, because the are the same sort of people” not realizing that nationalism and religion tend to be particular, not universal, so the conservatives in the US are heavily geared toward preserving the liberal values of yesteryear.

    Dammit, back to media for real this time. Come on brain! They live in New York, and when the government said that trashing the Taliban would bring Muslims back into the the fold, in the subsidiary tame minority role that blacks and Hispanics have in the progressive project, they were all in. When the government and neocons lied that Iraq was involved in 9/11 and was close to nuclear bombs, the media were not technically savvy, and, in their minds, we’re not lying, they were merely “reporting what the government and ‘experts’ told them.” That a war drives ratings was gravy. Iraq 2 serves as absolute proof that the media lies in lockstep. That they did so for a Republican president is mere coincidence. He was serving their interests and Israel’s.

    None of that could be fixed by “hey guys, we just profile Arabs at airports, and keep them from immigrwting!” which would have been the responsible, patriotic thing to do.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Rob

    You tell good stories. Fiction, of course, but good stories none the less.

    Replies: @Rob

  127. @Anonymous
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Yeah, I remember that. Apparently one of the murderers knew Byrd in prison and this was payback for something or other.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Interesting, thank you. Wikipedia says the murderers were performing all sorts of theatrics in the courtroom, heiling hitler and boasting that they were proud of what they had done. But if they were so proud of the gruesome murder they had committed, it must have been motivated by something other than simple hatred for the color of Byrd’s skin. These boys must have seen thousands of blacks in their lives, but they decided to murder only one, Byrd, and in such a way as to make “an example” of him by leaving his decapitated corpse on a Black church’s doorstep. Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that’s Google 2021 for you.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    "... Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that’s Google 2021 for you."

    Wikipedia's article is in fact not very good. The three men convicted who were convicted gave varying accounts. Shawn Berry (life in prison) gave his version to Dan Rather. Lawrence Brewer (executed 2011) testified at his trial. John King (executed 2019) gave his version in a couple of letters excerpted here.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    , @mulga mumblebrain
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Heroes of yours, are they?

  128. @El Dato
    @gandydancer

    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.

    AT 02:17:30

    https://youtu.be/u2w4CGmTQOw?t=8247

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.

    Don’t presume to inform me about things I know far better than you. There is no such thing as “the reaction*, merely a complex web of reactions and further reactions. It’s your attempt to deflect from my point that appears to be squid ink.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @gandydancer

    Lads, lads, settle down.

    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @El Dato
    @gandydancer


    things I know far better than you
     
    I have heard many tihings but people telling others over the Internet that "they know things far better" (as a matter of course) are probably the worst from the bottom drawer of lousiness.

    Don't do that. Or get hired by the NYT, they need people who know better.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  129. @Rob
    Apologies if anyone said this. I haven’t read the whole thread.

    The media were in a pickle, assuming any of them remembered Bush’s “don’t profile Arabs” remark. While 9/11 was a shock, they kept their top goal, the Great Replacement, in mind, and chose strategies to further it. I’m sure you here’s a word for that. I’d much appreciate it if someone told me, They could not say “not profiling Arabs caused 9/11,” because the rubes would be vindicated and the normies would start to think both that different behavior from members of a group justified treating the group differently and that we not only have a right to defend ourselves from hostile foreigners but are justified in being frightened of black street crime.

    On the other hand, lots of them live and work in NYC and DC, the top targets for any big attack. They do not think that that a people’s innate characteristics interact with culture to cause people to act in certain ways. Also, a people’s innate temperament strongly influences what cultural traits they adopt. The media are progressives, quite possibly the core of the ideology, and they think external circumstances alone cause people to do stuff. They honestly think that “radical Islam” comes from imams and can be countered with being nicer and showing that Muslims can integrate into the west. But hardcore Muslims have another idea of what converting Muslims to western ways: corrupting, leafing astray, causing apostasy, in their eyes, we turn good Muslims into bad Muslims. Especially that we corrupt women, turning them into barren, drunken sluts. Just like (their image) western women. Not to mention, Muslims probably have an inferiority complex, because westerners did the industrial and scientific revolutions. That’s driven them deep into “well, you may be rich and powerful, and those of us who are rich are only so because they live over the oil that powers your civilization, but we are spiritually superior” encouraging muslim ‘s to dive deeper into religion. If they weren’t smart enough to live over a sea of oil, their only real shot at escaping poverty is western education. It is really no surprise that so many terrorists were engineers by education.

    That’s a cultural explanation, but the proof that there are bio social causes is the Iranians do not become suicide bombers.

    Oh, back to media, they think that Muslims can be integrated into western culture, with free women and Pride month. That Muslims do not want that is often, and hilariously, blamed on their villains du jour, white conservatives. After the Tsarnaev bombing, online progs were saying, “oh sure, they were Muslims, but it is the fault of white conservatives, because the are the same sort of people” not realizing that nationalism and religion tend to be particular, not universal, so the conservatives in the US are heavily geared toward preserving the liberal values of yesteryear.

    Dammit, back to media for real this time. Come on brain! They live in New York, and when the government said that trashing the Taliban would bring Muslims back into the the fold, in the subsidiary tame minority role that blacks and Hispanics have in the progressive project, they were all in. When the government and neocons lied that Iraq was involved in 9/11 and was close to nuclear bombs, the media were not technically savvy, and, in their minds, we're not lying, they were merely “reporting what the government and ‘experts’ told them.” That a war drives ratings was gravy. Iraq 2 serves as absolute proof that the media lies in lockstep. That they did so for a Republican president is mere coincidence. He was serving their interests and Israel’s.

    None of that could be fixed by “hey guys, we just profile Arabs at airports, and keep them from immigrwting!” which would have been the responsible, patriotic thing to do.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    You tell good stories. Fiction, of course, but good stories none the less.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Corvinus

    Thanks?

  130. @Alden
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Byrd’s murder was in every newspaper and TV news program for months after the murder. Again and again it was stated and confirmed that Byrd and his murderers had been in the same state prison for years. And all knew each other. Only felons, not misdeamants are sent to state prison.

    Since Byrd was in state prison he was a felon.

    Every time an ignorant MAN OF UNZ cites wikepedia the more contempt and disdain I have for him.

    At least the MSM reported the truth that James Byrd was a career criminal at the time of his death.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Well, if you have such great contempt for me because I referred to a wikipedia page, why not set me straight with a link to a better source of information? I plainly stated in my comment that I found wikipedia lacking as a useful source on this subject.

    • Agree: gandydancer
  131. @The Alarmist

    The Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport in San Jose was named after him in November 2001 when Mineta was serving as Secretary of Transportation. … He left office as the longest-serving Secretary of Transportation in history.
     
    What happened to the convention of naming things only after the person is dead?

    Replies: @gandydancer

    What happened to the convention of naming things only after the person is dead?

    Long dead, if it was ever really a convention. I saw a video yesterday on The Big (Boston) Dig where some congressvermin got his name on a highway while he was in position to get money into the project. The connecting highway between Hwy 280 and 101 at SFO was renamed after a former San Francisco Supervisor and then (I think he was not yet a judge) State Congressvermin. Etc., etc. It pays better if the honoree can reward you.

  132. @Trelane
    One thing that Mineta did notice was that Dick Cheney didn't want the airliner approaching the Pentagon to be shot down.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    Steve doesn’t notice things like that.

  133. @stillCARealist
    @Altai

    Would you be willing to guess that hyper-aggressive males, like those in prison for murder or the sadistic killers in special forces, are just crazy maniacs?

    I want to admire intense masculinity, but not mental illness. Where would you go to observe the nice balance between aggression and restraint in a man? Probably not MMA. Those guys, and many of the people watching them, need to find another outlet for their violence that doesn't involve beating someone in the head. God help us that there are "women" who also participate in this.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    After Altai’s mention of Fallon Fox I looked him up and noticed that he’d lost once, to an actual woman. I found the video on YouTube and quite enjoyed seeing her beat him up.

  134. @Prester John
    @Stan Adams

    Back in February of 1993 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (still languishing in Gitmo) financed an attempt to TOPPLE one of the towers. Mercifully the attempt failed. Eight years or so later the same crowd finished the job, this time by hijacking passenger aircraft and making like kamikaze pilots. By then Bill Clinton, who had just assumed office a month prior to the first attack, was gone. Leaving aside the controversies surrounding what was actually done, it was left up to the Bush administration to take action on the domestic front--which was something that should have been done eight years before.

    The failure of the Clinton administration to take some kind of action after the first attack remains the single greatest failure of his administration.

    Replies: @epebble

    some kind of action

    They arrested, tried and sentenced Ramzi Yousef, the architect of the attack. He is serving a Life sentence in Colorado.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef#1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing

    What else would you have recommended?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @epebble


    What else would you have recommended?
     
    Deport all his compatriots.

    Replies: @epebble

  135. @Jonathan Mason
    There is a pretty interesting account of 9/11 in today's Daily Mail based on contemporaneous diary entries by Piers Morgan published in book form--Morgan was the editor of a wide circulation daily tabloid in London at the time of 9/11.

    Naturally Morgan, on hearing of the bombing, immediately fingered Bin Laden as he had been (alledgedly) responsible for prior attempts to destroy the World Trade Center.

    WEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER

    President Bush looked and sounded completely stunned today, close to tears and almost foaming with anger. He is not the kind of man to take this lightly. ‘We will crush this new, deadly enemy,’ he said ominously.

    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.

    THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER

    An amazing photograph came in today of a New York fireman going up the towers after the planes had struck wide-eyed, frightened. I rang Andy Lines, our US correspondent over there, and told him to drop everything and find that guy if he is still alive.

    FRIDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER

    Andy found the fireman. He’d traced his station from the number on his helmet, gone down there and gently asked if the man in the photo had made it. ‘Sure, Mike’s upstairs asleep,’ came the reply. Andy went up and found Mike Kehoe lying on the floor. He woke to tell us his amazing story of incredible heroism. ‘I just did my job,’ he said. Yeah, right.

    Bush is playing to type now, saying he wants Bin Laden’s ‘head on a platter’. Our leader article today urged a note of caution. These are scary times, and it worries me that we have this trigger-happy Texan in charge of our response. It really does.

    [Interesting that Bush's choice of that phrase from the King James Bible casts himself in the role of King Herod, and Bin Laden as John the Baptist!]

    MONDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER

    Bush is out of control, declaring: ‘There’s an old poster out West that said: “Wanted, dead or alive” - Bin Laden’s the prime suspect and I want justice.’ He thinks he’s John Wayne.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978209/In-extract-book-Insider-PIERS-MORGAN-recalls-watching-9-11-unfold.html

    It doesn't seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq and the hanging of Saddam Hussein, but apparently he received calls from Tony Blair's director of communications Alistair Campbell saying "When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them", which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush's poodle.

    Replies: @El Dato, @gandydancer

    Morgan:

    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.

    We all saw the jumpers, but if Morgan didn’t see the bodies on TV he thinks they vanished into a wormhole.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @gandydancer

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  136. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    "I wonder what George Bush meant by this?"

    Bush II was an underachieving alcoholic before he became the PNAC puppet. He is quite sensitive and emotional and probably was the victim of some kind of abuse when he was a child. He has a tendency to be unguarded in his words and facial expressions.

    "It's the very few that create most of the crises"

    He was projecting here; he was speaking about his family and the elite networks that surrounded him. Bush II's mother, America's Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley. Knowing what he came from, I had some sympathy for Bush II.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @Anonymous

    Bush II’s mother, America’s Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley.

    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me. But, for the record, there’s this:

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @gandydancer


    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me.
     
    That's "black magician", as in "practitioner of black magic".  The word "black" doesn't always pertain to race.

    Pertinent to this is a joke making the rounds:

    The words "black paint" are now racist.  Instead you have to say, "Toby, please paint the fence."

    Replies: @gandydancer

  137. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer


    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.
     
    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Looked like an utter wall of crap and still does. If you didn’t mean what you said that’s on you.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer

    You still haven't addressed your public stupidity—I just wanna help you :)

    Replies: @gandydancer

  138. @JohnnyWalker123

    Rather than learn from the events of 9/11 and at least lock the barn door after the horse had run off, Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door. From Mineta’s Wikipedia page:

     


    So too bad for the 3000 and their loved ones, but Mineta lived happily ever after:

     

    Have there been any major domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11?

    The primary reason for the 9/11 attacks wasn't PC and lack of racial profiling. If that was the main issue, we would've experienced more attacks in the last two decades (during which PC and anti-profiling has been quite strong).

    The primary reason for 9/11 was that Bush (and the rest of his administration) was lazy, stupid, and feckless. When Bush was elected in 2000, Democrats said he was too stupid to be president.... and they were proven right various times from the beginning of the Bush administration (9/11) through the middle (Iraq, Katrina) and through the end (the 2008 financial collapse).

    When seen from that perspective, 9/11 was just one of many of Bush's blunders. Yet instead of offering critical coverage, our media fawned over the man up through 2005 (Hurricane Katrina). That was the first time when he faced any significant hostile media. Our media revealed themselves to be nothing more than sycophants. We used to criticize the Soviet Union for their "state-owned media," but the U.S. media transformed into something akin to that during the Bush administration.

    While I'm no fan of Clinton-Gore, electing Al Gore was the responsible decision in 2000. Voting for Bush shows us how retarded American voters can be at times. It's unfortunate, but the public was dimwitted to vote for a man of limited IQ and even more limited work ethic.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @Reg Cæsar

    for a man of limited IQ

    Bush was smarter than Gore or Kerry.

    …and even more limited work ethic.

    The last thing I want in a president is work ethic. Obama spent far too little time on the links.

  139. @epebble
    @Prester John

    some kind of action

    They arrested, tried and sentenced Ramzi Yousef, the architect of the attack. He is serving a Life sentence in Colorado.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef#1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing

    What else would you have recommended?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What else would you have recommended?

    Deport all his compatriots.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @epebble
    @Reg Cæsar

    If there was a way, I agree. At least, we could have stopped giving new Visas. His compatriots are "renowned" for their talent in unconventional warfare.

    This is their Machiavelli making his prediction:

    When ISI will defeat America with America's help in Afghanistan - Hamid Gul
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y9F2i0UAJU

  140. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Looked like an utter wall of crap and still does. If you didn't mean what you said that's on you.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    You still haven’t addressed your public stupidity—I just wanna help you 🙂

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    What I've addressed is YOUR verbal logorrhea and gonorrhea, which disqualifies you from being taken seriously when your purport to pronounce on anyone else's "stupidity". But, keep digging. No sign of it yet, but maybe you'll eventually say something amusing instead of merely cretinous. I don't want to squelch ambition.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  141. @gandydancer
    @El Dato


    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.
     
    Don't presume to inform me about things I know far better than you. There is no such thing as "the reaction*, merely a complex web of reactions and further reactions. It's your attempt to deflect from my point that appears to be squid ink.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @El Dato

    Lads, lads, settle down.

    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.
     
    And I think that's what I said. But it's perpendicular to my point that the number of American deaths from the WuFlu is (unless we learn more about ChiCom intent than is now evident) irrelevant to the appropriateness of our reaction to 9/11. 3000 American deaths is certainly sufficient to justify killing any number of Taliban, or any number of Hirohito's minions. That the Taliban hosted bin Laden is proof positive that the lesson of WWII has worn off, so it should be repeated as often as is necessary and prudent. (Of course, Bush etc. flubbed it. But that's a different question.)
    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You are being terribly American-centric but I don't blame you. The Japanese struck at Pearl simultaneously as with British and Dutch colonies.

    The Western historians never bothered to translate this but its call 南方作戦 Southern Operation Nanpo Sakusen
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南方作戦(なんぽうさくせん)
    https://imgur.com/guwSW2V
    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen
    https://imgur.com/KoceYh1

    Replies: @J.Ross, @gandydancer

  142. “An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press.”

    Where exactly would the Jussie Smollett, Jena 6, Duke Lacrosse, and the Rolling Stone/University of Virginia frat boys (to name just a few) stories fit on this spectrum? Are these examples of outright hoaxes which the media promoted, perhaps unknowing that they were indeed in fact hoaxes, but in a couple of instances, some of the MSM were very much aware that they were indeed hoaxes? These stories in fact were nationally promoted because as said before, they fit a predetermined Narrative, namely, white people are evil, and POCs are good. Thus the motives were pure, even if the facts were not there. And ultimately, can’t one reasonably conclude that these are examples of hoaxes that the MSM actively promoted?

    Funny how many of these hoax like stories are actively promoted by the MSM for quite a few news cycles, and when the facts finally come to light, the MSM basically drops the stories as if they never happened, consigning them to the memory hole. Until the next story comes along (whites bad, POCs good) that can fit the Narrative if nationally promoted.

  143. @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @Anonymous

    Interesting, thank you. Wikipedia says the murderers were performing all sorts of theatrics in the courtroom, heiling hitler and boasting that they were proud of what they had done. But if they were so proud of the gruesome murder they had committed, it must have been motivated by something other than simple hatred for the color of Byrd's skin. These boys must have seen thousands of blacks in their lives, but they decided to murder only one, Byrd, and in such a way as to make "an example" of him by leaving his decapitated corpse on a Black church's doorstep. Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that's Google 2021 for you.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @mulga mumblebrain

    “… Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that’s Google 2021 for you.”

    Wikipedia’s article is in fact not very good. The three men convicted who were convicted gave varying accounts. Shawn Berry (life in prison) gave his version to Dan Rather. Lawrence Brewer (executed 2011) testified at his trial. John King (executed 2019) gave his version in a couple of letters excerpted here.

    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @James B. Shearer

    Wow, thank you very much, James, for the links and information. Even after scanning it, I'm still not sure what happened and why between Byrd and his murderers. Seems like race was at least a partial motive, but not the full story. What an unusual story.

  144. @El Dato
    @Jonathan Mason


    It doesn’t seem like Morgan had personally predicted that this event would lead to the invasion of Iraq
     
    In spite of all the The Economist covers of Saddam being "weapons of mass destruction" tier evil with Clinton (NB the "weapons of mass destruction" construction -- did that exist before Gulf War II?), it needed the Anthrax to get that one going.

    "When all the right-wing hawks in Washington start saying we have to go after Saddam, that’s when we’re going to need you on our side, when we’re trying to restrain them”, which I think is pretty interesting considering that history has generally regarded Blair as Bush’s poodle.
     
    T'was show. Lying is Campbell's job description. One may remember Blair productions' Freudian "Saddam can launch missiles in 45 minutes" (you know, "sexing up the evidence") as obtained from a cab driver) and the guy (David Kelly) who insisted that there were no such weapons and somehow (improbably) suicided himself in the woods by cutting his veins after a good fat hounding by UK Sturm & Drang "press" (they didn't accuse him of antisemitism back in those times though, so he was spared that particular ignominy).

    Replies: @gandydancer

    …the “weapons of mass destruction” construction — did that exist before Gulf War II?

    Guernica, 1937. Wikipedia is good for some things. But, yes, I gather that we agree that at some point it became an attempt to steal sizzle from nuclear bombs for infinitely less-scary things.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @gandydancer

    In the DoD world, WMD were once denoted as NBC: nuclear, biological, chemical.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  145. @gandydancer
    @SunBakedSuburb


    Bush II’s mother, America’s Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley.
     
    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me. But, for the record, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVHg-XVzGo

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me.

    That’s “black magician”, as in “practitioner of black magic”.  The word “black” doesn’t always pertain to race.

    Pertinent to this is a joke making the rounds:

    The words “black paint” are now racist.  Instead you have to say, “Toby, please paint the fence.”

    • Thanks: gandydancer
    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Mr. Rational


    That’s “black magician”, as in “practitioner of black magic”.
     
    That didn't occur to me. But it's not like you can be sure in these circles, where it's common to assert that Jews (even blue-eyed Ashkenazi ones) aren't White.

    I didn't watch the video, btw. Just ran across it.
  146. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer

    You still haven't addressed your public stupidity—I just wanna help you :)

    Replies: @gandydancer

    What I’ve addressed is YOUR verbal logorrhea and gonorrhea, which disqualifies you from being taken seriously when your purport to pronounce on anyone else’s “stupidity”. But, keep digging. No sign of it yet, but maybe you’ll eventually say something amusing instead of merely cretinous. I don’t want to squelch ambition.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer


    when your purport to pronounce on anyone else’s “stupidity”
     
    Ahem. This you?

    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.
     
    You still don’t understand. Gandy, you’re a maroon. An angry maroon. No internet for you until you smarten up, young man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NYFq7ZJg4c
  147. @Corvinus
    “There is little cultural overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home. But in their disdain for pluralism, in their disregard for human life, in their determination to defile national symbols, they are children of the same foul spirit."

    —George W. Bush, in a speech remembering the heroes of 911 in Pennsylvania, and in the context of January 6

    Do some NOTICING, Mr. Sailer, rather than remain cagey.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    In a spirit of reconciliation Biden should now issue George W Bush an official pardon for his war crimes and erect a statue to him in Wall St. In recognition of his good work in bailing out the banking industry which collapsed just before he was disinaugurated.

    • Agree: El Dato
  148. @gandydancer
    @Jonathan Mason

    Morgan:


    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.
     
    We all saw the jumpers, but if Morgan didn't see the bodies on TV he thinks they vanished into a wormhole.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Jonathan Mason

    Morgan:


    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.
     
    You:

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.
     
    Jeez. Why do I have to repeat this? We saw the jumpers. They landed on the sidewalk. Don't tell me no one took pictures. Did Morgan publish those? If not then your contention is bullshit.

    I believe there were maybe 1000 bodies not "found". That means a lot were. It's not actually customary to publish pictures of body parts in popular newspapers. But I'm sure Morgan was offered some. What's freakish is his current lying, but it's not in the slightest degree unusual from him.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  149. @Uncle Dan
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “estimated”

    Replies: @gandydancer, @JohnnyWalker123

    “estimated”

    Clarifying what I take it to be what you were pointing out, the quote was

    “…estimated 654,965 excess deaths…”

    and the “estimate” was both made and reported by mathematical/statistical illiterates.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @gandydancer

    Yes, because Lancet employs "illiterates."

    Replies: @gandydancer

  150. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cato


    We underreacted to Covid?? Not in my household.
     
    LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.

    Replies: @Cato

    “LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.”

    Those words were Yglesias’, not yours.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Cato


    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    “LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.”

    Those words were Yglesias’, not yours.
     
    Nope. Here's the relevant part of Errican's post:

    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:
    [tweet]

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.
     
    If he wrote the last two sentences (and it certainly appears that he did) then he's responsible for the sentence before that. Who else? They're after and outside Yglesias’ tweet.

    Replies: @Cato

  151. Nothing new but it bears to repeat the basics:

    A newly declassified pre-9/11 report exposes Al-Qaeda ‘sleeper’ cells across US, so why was the intelligence not acted on?

    Richard Clarke also wasn’t informed of Hazmi and Midhar’s entry to the US, despite Agency chief George Tenet calling him at the White House several times a day and meeting with him in person every other day to discuss intelligence on Al-Qaeda “in microscopic detail”. Had he been told at any point prior to 9/11, even a week before, he believes the attacks could’ve been averted – a view shared by numerous senior FBI officials.

    Clarke contends this decision was made at the highest levels of the CIA, and has pointed to a far more sinister explanation than mere internecine rivalry – Langley was using them in a secret operation of some kind.

  152. @gandydancer
    @El Dato


    Pearl Harbor *was the reaction*. The rest is, as they say, history and squid ink.
     
    Don't presume to inform me about things I know far better than you. There is no such thing as "the reaction*, merely a complex web of reactions and further reactions. It's your attempt to deflect from my point that appears to be squid ink.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @El Dato

    things I know far better than you

    I have heard many tihings but people telling others over the Internet that “they know things far better” (as a matter of course) are probably the worst from the bottom drawer of lousiness.

    Don’t do that. Or get hired by the NYT, they need people who know better.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @El Dato

    You pointed me at a video of a lecture by a guy who admits that he doesn't know if Roosevelt knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl, but intimates anyway that the BBs were lined up the way they were to make the attack effective. Did you even know that before I just told you?

    And he offers as evidence that Roosevelt wanted war with the Japs that Roosevelt told Churchill he wanted to go to war with Germany. Things which are different are not the same.

    The Jap economy was 15% of the US economy. No one really thought they would be as dumb as they were,

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  153. @Reg Cæsar
    @epebble


    What else would you have recommended?
     
    Deport all his compatriots.

    Replies: @epebble

    If there was a way, I agree. At least, we could have stopped giving new Visas. His compatriots are “renowned” for their talent in unconventional warfare.

    This is their Machiavelli making his prediction:

    When ISI will defeat America with America’s help in Afghanistan – Hamid Gul

  154. @anon
    I was not aware that James Byrd was a criminal.

    Can you offer some proof of this?

    Replies: @gandydancer, @mulga mumblebrain, @AceDeuce

    He was Black, wasn’t he?

  155. @dearieme
    @Cato

    When did you start taking Vitamin D and zinc?

    Replies: @Cato

    Never did. We missed that somehow. But among the crazy stuff I remember: the virus was said to survive longest on glass and metal, so these became the surfaces we disinfected most thoroughly. Now, of course, we are supposed to worry only about aerosols.

  156. @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @Anonymous

    Interesting, thank you. Wikipedia says the murderers were performing all sorts of theatrics in the courtroom, heiling hitler and boasting that they were proud of what they had done. But if they were so proud of the gruesome murder they had committed, it must have been motivated by something other than simple hatred for the color of Byrd's skin. These boys must have seen thousands of blacks in their lives, but they decided to murder only one, Byrd, and in such a way as to make "an example" of him by leaving his decapitated corpse on a Black church's doorstep. Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that's Google 2021 for you.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @mulga mumblebrain

    Heroes of yours, are they?

  157. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Cato

    "We threw our clothes into the washing machine as we returned home from work. Our groceries were delivered and kept in the garage for 24 hours before being brought into the house."

    I remember disinfecting every switch in the house, from lights to cooker. Then every tap. Early days, precautionary principle. I have sufficient disposable plastic gloves to last for a few years. Now used for painting, car work etc.

    Replies: @Cato

    When Ebola mutates to be transmittable pneumonically (predicted to kill 90% of the world population) we will both have the skill set to get through that crisis.

  158. @Anonymous
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia and Afghanistan are pretty much the worse places on earth, but you cannot blame all of that on the War on Terror.

    Libya should be blamed on the War on Libya. Totally different war!

    Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia are partially war on terror, partially on their utterly insane population and a good chunk on Islam.

    Iraq and Syria, part war on terror, part British and French foreign offices after WW1. They are artificial entities entirely. They were never going to work. Not when minority tribal groups ran them. Sooner or later, an attempted near genocidal war was coming.

    Replies: @mulga mumblebrain

    They are all part of the Oded Yinon War on Israel’s neighbours, as outlined in Kivunim magazine in 1982. A campaign in the 3500 year war of Judaism against the rest.

  159. Here’s the ology of 9/11 epistemology.

    https://sp.rmbl.ws/s8/2/v/6/p/e/v6pec.caa.mp4?u=0&b=0

    Take the pill.

  160. @Art Deco
    a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas,

    He was an alcoholic with sticky fingers. Quite functionally irrelevant to what happened to him on the last day of his life.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    [Byrd Jr.] was an alcoholic with sticky fingers. Quite functionally irrelevant to what happened to him on the last day of his life.

    Sailer says he was “a black criminal”. Anonymous[299] says “Apparently one of the murderers knew Byrd in prison and this was payback for something or other.” Someone else claimed something along the same lines. Biography.com says he spent YEARS in prison for “petty theft”. Wikipedia says nada about his record, if any — just a family man and vacuum cleaner salesman, iirc. Now, if I were betting I’d guess he was a more serious criminal than you imply (you don’t generally get years in prison for shoplifting, though that may be the charge after the plea deal), but that he may well have been killed for being black. However this disagreement requires more than your ipse dixit to clear up.

  161. @Mr. Rational
    @gandydancer


    Black? Sounds like lunacy to me.
     
    That's "black magician", as in "practitioner of black magic".  The word "black" doesn't always pertain to race.

    Pertinent to this is a joke making the rounds:

    The words "black paint" are now racist.  Instead you have to say, "Toby, please paint the fence."

    Replies: @gandydancer

    That’s “black magician”, as in “practitioner of black magic”.

    That didn’t occur to me. But it’s not like you can be sure in these circles, where it’s common to assert that Jews (even blue-eyed Ashkenazi ones) aren’t White.

    I didn’t watch the video, btw. Just ran across it.

  162. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    What I've addressed is YOUR verbal logorrhea and gonorrhea, which disqualifies you from being taken seriously when your purport to pronounce on anyone else's "stupidity". But, keep digging. No sign of it yet, but maybe you'll eventually say something amusing instead of merely cretinous. I don't want to squelch ambition.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    when your purport to pronounce on anyone else’s “stupidity”

    Ahem. This you?

    And, no, we haven’t underreacted to the Wuhan Flu. Quite the opposite.

    You still don’t understand. Gandy, you’re a maroon. An angry maroon. No internet for you until you smarten up, young man.

    [MORE]

  163. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @gandydancer

    Lads, lads, settle down.

    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.

    And I think that’s what I said. But it’s perpendicular to my point that the number of American deaths from the WuFlu is (unless we learn more about ChiCom intent than is now evident) irrelevant to the appropriateness of our reaction to 9/11. 3000 American deaths is certainly sufficient to justify killing any number of Taliban, or any number of Hirohito’s minions. That the Taliban hosted bin Laden is proof positive that the lesson of WWII has worn off, so it should be repeated as often as is necessary and prudent. (Of course, Bush etc. flubbed it. But that’s a different question.)

  164. @Jonathan Mason
    @gandydancer

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Morgan:

    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.

    You:

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.

    Jeez. Why do I have to repeat this? We saw the jumpers. They landed on the sidewalk. Don’t tell me no one took pictures. Did Morgan publish those? If not then your contention is bullshit.

    I believe there were maybe 1000 bodies not “found”. That means a lot were. It’s not actually customary to publish pictures of body parts in popular newspapers. But I’m sure Morgan was offered some. What’s freakish is his current lying, but it’s not in the slightest degree unusual from him.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    I won't substantiate this but I'm certain I have seen and may even have some copies of images like this; I believe there are also brief video images of people with minor injuries in the various famous videos, ie, bloodied. At the same time that the Satanic pedophiles who despise freedom and knowledge threw the election, they shut down many valuable web sites, among them Best Gore, which, like 4chan, was both unpleasant and often necessary. It can't be checked but I believe Best Gore had IX/XI stuff. Morgan sounds less like he's deliberately lying for some purpose and more like he's being a goldfish-memory airhead vomiting false conclusions from whatever is right in front of him at that moment. Of course people had minor injuries in a block-wide cascade of glass, stone, and metal.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  165. @Cato
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    "LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing."

    Those words were Yglesias', not yours.

    Replies: @gandydancer


    “LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.”

    Those words were Yglesias’, not yours.

    Nope. Here’s the relevant part of Errican’s post:

    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:
    [tweet]

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    If he wrote the last two sentences (and it certainly appears that he did) then he’s responsible for the sentence before that. Who else? They’re after and outside Yglesias’ tweet.

    • Replies: @Cato
    @gandydancer

    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia's words, which I quoted in my post. I couldn't make head or tail of what JIE said. Or maybe you know what this means?


    in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.
     

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @gandydancer

  166. @El Dato
    @gandydancer


    things I know far better than you
     
    I have heard many tihings but people telling others over the Internet that "they know things far better" (as a matter of course) are probably the worst from the bottom drawer of lousiness.

    Don't do that. Or get hired by the NYT, they need people who know better.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    You pointed me at a video of a lecture by a guy who admits that he doesn’t know if Roosevelt knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl, but intimates anyway that the BBs were lined up the way they were to make the attack effective. Did you even know that before I just told you?

    And he offers as evidence that Roosevelt wanted war with the Japs that Roosevelt told Churchill he wanted to go to war with Germany. Things which are different are not the same.

    The Jap economy was 15% of the US economy. No one really thought they would be as dumb as they were,

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @gandydancer

    You may be outraged to find that, the man who signed the Declaration of War against the United States, Kishi Nobusuke, whose grandson, would go on to become the Japanese Prime Minister, Abe Shinzo, and America's closest Asian ally.

    (This is akin to Göring's grandson become the German Chancellor).

    Or that Abe just paid visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, where Tojo Hideki is enshrined.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#War_criminals

    But this is simply the case. World War II was with China and Russia against Germany and Japan, now it's the other way around.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  167. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    "I wonder what George Bush meant by this?"

    Bush II was an underachieving alcoholic before he became the PNAC puppet. He is quite sensitive and emotional and probably was the victim of some kind of abuse when he was a child. He has a tendency to be unguarded in his words and facial expressions.

    "It's the very few that create most of the crises"

    He was projecting here; he was speaking about his family and the elite networks that surrounded him. Bush II's mother, America's Grandma throughout the reign of Bush I, was quite likely the daughter of famed black magician Aleister Crowley. Knowing what he came from, I had some sympathy for Bush II.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @Anonymous

    That salacious piece of gossip simply cannot be true:

    George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to Aleister Crowley’s grandson.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    "George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to be Aleister Crowley’s grandson."

    But he certainly has the evil in him to make it plausible.

    I used to think that being stupid and being evil were sort of mutually exclusive qualities, that you couldn't be both stupid and evil at the same time. But GWB proved me wrong on that score, and wildly so. Now in the era of Antifa and BLM, I see the combo almost daily.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  168. @Anonymous
    @SunBakedSuburb

    That salacious piece of gossip simply cannot be true:

    George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to Aleister Crowley's grandson.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to be Aleister Crowley’s grandson.”

    But he certainly has the evil in him to make it plausible.

    I used to think that being stupid and being evil were sort of mutually exclusive qualities, that you couldn’t be both stupid and evil at the same time. But GWB proved me wrong on that score, and wildly so. Now in the era of Antifa and BLM, I see the combo almost daily.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It's simpler than that, because a stupid person is predisposed to evil in all those situations where his stupidity limits his understanding of possibilities and consequences, eg, hitting your kid because he's misbehaving in public.

  169. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1436733791754727424

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1436722630153932802

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1436780229062762497

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    • Agree: J.Ross
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @MEH 0910

    Most likely, those whom Dubya is in full chimp poo-flinging mode against are loyal Republican Party voters, and even activists. Likely some of them were even dumb enough to campaign for Bush and even demonstrate for him in the disputed 2000 election.

    , @vinteuil
    @MEH 0910

    What utter scum the criminal Bush family is now and has long been.

    Compared to them, the criminal Biden family is a band of wannabe arrivistes.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  170. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/Peter_Nimitz/status/1436710799171489796

    Replies: @Anonymous, @vinteuil

    Most likely, those whom Dubya is in full chimp poo-flinging mode against are loyal Republican Party voters, and even activists. Likely some of them were even dumb enough to campaign for Bush and even demonstrate for him in the disputed 2000 election.

    • Agree: gandydancer
  171. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @gandydancer

    Lads, lads, settle down.

    I think we can all agree that ultimately, Pearl Harbor was a reaction to Admiral Perry.

    Replies: @gandydancer, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    You are being terribly American-centric but I don’t blame you. The Japanese struck at Pearl simultaneously as with British and Dutch colonies.

    The Western historians never bothered to translate this but its call 南方作戦 Southern Operation Nanpo Sakusen
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南方作戦(なんぽうさくせん)

    View post on imgur.com


    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The taking of the Western Empires' Asian colonies was one of the most impressive military feats in history and a stunning illustration of momentum. The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen
     
    You've got cause and effect backasswards. There was zero chance of Japan invading the USSR. They'd been bloodied twice already, and had quite enough of the Bear. Anyway, don't mistake the existence of staff busywork for proof of intent. We still had a Color Plan to sortie the US Fleet to the Philippines, but everyone knew it was a non-starter in '41. (Except Churchill., who somehow thought that a force of a couple BB/BC was something other than contemptible.)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  172. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    "George W. Bush simply does not have the intelligence to be Aleister Crowley’s grandson."

    But he certainly has the evil in him to make it plausible.

    I used to think that being stupid and being evil were sort of mutually exclusive qualities, that you couldn't be both stupid and evil at the same time. But GWB proved me wrong on that score, and wildly so. Now in the era of Antifa and BLM, I see the combo almost daily.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    It’s simpler than that, because a stupid person is predisposed to evil in all those situations where his stupidity limits his understanding of possibilities and consequences, eg, hitting your kid because he’s misbehaving in public.

  173. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You are being terribly American-centric but I don't blame you. The Japanese struck at Pearl simultaneously as with British and Dutch colonies.

    The Western historians never bothered to translate this but its call 南方作戦 Southern Operation Nanpo Sakusen
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南方作戦(なんぽうさくせん)
    https://imgur.com/guwSW2V
    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen
    https://imgur.com/KoceYh1

    Replies: @J.Ross, @gandydancer

    The taking of the Western Empires’ Asian colonies was one of the most impressive military feats in history and a stunning illustration of momentum. The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @J.Ross


    The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.
     
    I understand that that's just shorthand, but it wasn't any brilliance by Zhukov that resulted in the discouraging result for the Kwantung Army that when they massed all their available artillery for a Big Push on the Khalkin Gol that the Soviet Artillery fired back at 10:1 using guns that theirs couldn't even reach. And the Japs had thought they had the railhead advantage, too.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  174. It has been a while since the Bush/Gore presidential debates, but I specifically remember George W. Bush saying that under his presidency the US was going to get out of the nation-building business and allow people to build their own nations. Oh, George, how could you?

    This video podcast by Russell Brand very nicely sums up the nonsense that we were fed in the months after 9/11. If you had listened to the politicians, it was clear that going after Osama bin Laden was always secondary to promoting the rights and careers of women in Afghanistan.

    The quotations from George W. Bush are particularly ghoulish in light of what is now going on in Afghanistan and I feel really bad for the young women born since 9/11 in Afghanistan who have been given expectation for all of their young lives that will probably never be fulfilled.

    Americans and Brits have such short memories that they never hold their politicians to account for their crimes, but for what it is worth, Bush & Blair can burn in hell!

  175. @gandydancer
    @Jonathan Mason

    Morgan:


    The weirdest thing about this is that there are no pictures of anyone covered in blood, or any dead bodies. Everyone either survived intact or got pulverised. Freakish.
     
    You:

    Morgan was the editor of a popular newspaper at the time. If there had been photographs he would have published them.
     
    Jeez. Why do I have to repeat this? We saw the jumpers. They landed on the sidewalk. Don't tell me no one took pictures. Did Morgan publish those? If not then your contention is bullshit.

    I believe there were maybe 1000 bodies not "found". That means a lot were. It's not actually customary to publish pictures of body parts in popular newspapers. But I'm sure Morgan was offered some. What's freakish is his current lying, but it's not in the slightest degree unusual from him.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I won’t substantiate this but I’m certain I have seen and may even have some copies of images like this; I believe there are also brief video images of people with minor injuries in the various famous videos, ie, bloodied. At the same time that the Satanic pedophiles who despise freedom and knowledge threw the election, they shut down many valuable web sites, among them Best Gore, which, like 4chan, was both unpleasant and often necessary. It can’t be checked but I believe Best Gore had IX/XI stuff. Morgan sounds less like he’s deliberately lying for some purpose and more like he’s being a goldfish-memory airhead vomiting false conclusions from whatever is right in front of him at that moment. Of course people had minor injuries in a block-wide cascade of glass, stone, and metal.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @J.Ross

    I did a search for "9/11 bodies" or somesuch on ddg, and while I did turn up a gore site they admitted that they weren't sure the pics were all from 9/11. There was one very bloody woman sitting up and being attended to on the images page, but that led to a url that gave me an get-outta-here vibe and I did. But indeed there were fewer clear body shots than I expected. However, except for shots of the jumper bodies I expect there were mostly just a lot of parts covered in dust. A pancaking skyscraper would be expected to be a pretty good blender of its contents. Separately I noted that the Wikipedia article on a couple of the flights mention things like a femur or a passenger id'd from DNA. among other things. And then there's the pictures of people coming down the stairs as the firemen went up. I'm not sure what "goldfish memory" means, but I'm sure you're right. What those two are saying/implying doesn't make a bit of sense.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  176. @gandydancer
    @El Dato

    You pointed me at a video of a lecture by a guy who admits that he doesn't know if Roosevelt knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl, but intimates anyway that the BBs were lined up the way they were to make the attack effective. Did you even know that before I just told you?

    And he offers as evidence that Roosevelt wanted war with the Japs that Roosevelt told Churchill he wanted to go to war with Germany. Things which are different are not the same.

    The Jap economy was 15% of the US economy. No one really thought they would be as dumb as they were,

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    You may be outraged to find that, the man who signed the Declaration of War against the United States, Kishi Nobusuke, whose grandson, would go on to become the Japanese Prime Minister, Abe Shinzo, and America’s closest Asian ally.

    (This is akin to Göring’s grandson become the German Chancellor).

    Or that Abe just paid visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, where Tojo Hideki is enshrined.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#War_criminals

    But this is simply the case. World War II was with China and Russia against Germany and Japan, now it’s the other way around.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Why would I be more upset about the PM than Hirohito not being hung? Nah, I'm, not outraged. Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan's attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch, but by the time Obama attacked him is should have been water under the bridge. The Game of Nations isn't patty-cake, history is red of tooth and claw on all sides, and certain kinds of international "law" are bunkum. And the original post whining about dead Arabs was puerile.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  177. The ADL released its 20 year report on Antisemitic conspiracy theories related to 9/11. It seriously reads like a who’s who on Unz’s website.

    https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/antisemitic-conspiracies-about-911-endure-20-years-later

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Anon

    Not clicking on an ADL link, but let's just say that Ron's ethos is "Let a thousand flowers bloom." At least I think they're flowers and I think that's blooming that they're doing.

  178. @Ralph L
    @Sean


    which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia
     
    Wasn't that a goal of much of Washington for many decades, or since the Shah fell at least? Bush et al thought it a feature, not a bug. I think they believed some Iraqis would dispose of Saddam, which is common for failed dictators.

    Replies: @Sean

    One reason for Bush the Elder and Scowcroft deciding against overthrowing Saddam was that it might lead to the Shia majority in Saddam’s Sunni supremacist state wanting to join with Iran, and Iraq under Saddam was a bulwark against Revolutionary Iran’s designs on Saudi Arabia. It’s a good point that the Mullahs’ Iran was seen as the main threat to the Saud family dictatorship, but I am not sure that there were grounds for continuing to think so after Saddam attempted to annex Kuwait. Saddam’s Iraq had a larger population with lots of Sunnis plus a long border with Saudi Arabia. So though lacking his previous wherewithal, Saddam could pursue semi conventional infiltration methods against the regime in Saudi Arabia. I don’t think the US really wanted to have an army stationed in Saudi Arabia, but they underestimated the trouble it would cause for the Saudi ruling family regime.

    According to Adnan Khashoggi, America’s original mistake was so heavily arming the Shah’s Iran. While the US saw the Iran pre Islamic revolution Iran as the America’s cop on the ME beat, when all was said and done Iran was not Arab or Sunni and Arab countries all profoundly feared it. I think the Neocon explanation for supporting Israel was that Israel functions as a cop on the ME beat. The adversary trying to control the oil resources of the ME was the Soviet Union, and when that threat became defunct, Islamic Revolutionary Iran became an extremely convenient substitute. There is a lot of ‘tail wagging the dog’ in these relationships, none more than the one with Israel.

  179. @Corvinus
    @Rob

    You tell good stories. Fiction, of course, but good stories none the less.

    Replies: @Rob

    Thanks?

  180. @gandydancer
    @El Dato


    ...the “weapons of mass destruction” construction — did that exist before Gulf War II?
     
    Guernica, 1937. Wikipedia is good for some things. But, yes, I gather that we agree that at some point it became an attempt to steal sizzle from nuclear bombs for infinitely less-scary things.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    In the DoD world, WMD were once denoted as NBC: nuclear, biological, chemical.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Ralph L


    In the DoD world, WMD were once denoted as NBC: nuclear, biological, chemical.
     
    Still are. https://www.weaponsystems.net/system/310-Leclerc
    But this is when the subject is filtration and decontamination.
    As weapons one of those is not remotely the same as the others.
  181. @Steve Sailer
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I’d make sure that a Japanese-American regiment that actually fought got pots of medals –

    They did. The Fighting 442nd of Japanese Americans was famous when I was a kid as the most decorated unit of WWII in Europe.

    Replies: @JMcG, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    SHAEF was a German American, and they as a group presumably received many times more decorations. But there are no memorials for German American internment (albeit much smaller), or for the civilian victims at Hamburg and Dresden.

    On the other hand, the Japanese are constantly reminded of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Manzanar, that they were actually victims in WW2.

    Why this insultingly bogus narrative?

    There are other reason obviously. But till this day the U.S.-Japan Security Treaty (1960) has lasted longer than any other alliance between two great powers formed after the 1648 Peace of Westphalia.

    Post WW2, the Cold War immediately turned hot in Asia and Japan was on the front lines of the Korean War, making them indispensable allies against China and Soviet Union. MacArthur never spent a day in Korea and directed the war entirely from Tokyo.

    • Replies: @Dube
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    MacArthur never spent a day in Korea and directed the war entirely from Tokyo.

    He watched closely the landing at Inchon.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdpaa-mil.sites.crmforce.mil%2FdpaaFamWebInCampaignInchon&psig=AOvVaw0Ra9KmtVle5MgYjJScq55L&ust=1631561803822000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJDvzMCX-vICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  182. @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “An epistemological point I try to make is that there really isn’t all that much Fake News in terms of outright hoaxes in the press. Instead, there is an intractably vast abundance of news, countless facts which people can’t be expected to remember unless it fits into a well-worn narrative, usually about who or what is Good and who or what is bad.“

    Lol, which you invariably contribute, right?

    “Mineta responded to 3,000 Americas being murdered on his watch by airliners under his purview by burning down the barn door.“

    So that is Bad, based on your interpretation of the facts, in which case, your analysis is Good. Yet, it comes down to Who/Whom.

    Replies: @Gabe Ruth

    Sounds like you need a reboot brother

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Gabe Ruth

    Sportsball is on the boob tube today and tonight. That will recharge the batteries, and then it’s back to the salt mines showing how the world truly works since I’ve figured it all out.

  183. @anon
    I was not aware that James Byrd was a criminal.

    Can you offer some proof of this?

    Replies: @gandydancer, @mulga mumblebrain, @AceDeuce

    He was a convicted felon, and knew at least one of his accused killers from prison.

  184. @Gabe Ruth
    @Corvinus

    Sounds like you need a reboot brother

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Sportsball is on the boob tube today and tonight. That will recharge the batteries, and then it’s back to the salt mines showing how the world truly works since I’ve figured it all out.

  185. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Steve Sailer

    SHAEF was a German American, and they as a group presumably received many times more decorations. But there are no memorials for German American internment (albeit much smaller), or for the civilian victims at Hamburg and Dresden.

    On the other hand, the Japanese are constantly reminded of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Manzanar, that they were actually victims in WW2.

    Why this insultingly bogus narrative?

    There are other reason obviously. But till this day the U.S.-Japan Security Treaty (1960) has lasted longer than any other alliance between two great powers formed after the 1648 Peace of Westphalia.

    Post WW2, the Cold War immediately turned hot in Asia and Japan was on the front lines of the Korean War, making them indispensable allies against China and Soviet Union. MacArthur never spent a day in Korea and directed the war entirely from Tokyo.

    Replies: @Dube

    • Thanks: gandydancer
    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Dube

    Right, my source for that is here


    A popular criticism of MacArthur was that he never spent a night in Korea, and directed the war from the safety of Tokyo.[267]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Fighting_around_the_38th_Parallel_(January%E2%80%93June_1951)

    But my point is rather that Japs were the biggest winner of the Korean War — the Americans were flying supplies into Japan, and from an economic standpoint it didn't make sense for the cargo planes to come back empty. That's how Japan Inc. got their first post-War jump start. All the way until Michael Crichton wrote Rising Sun.

    To this day US-Japan Alliance is a cornerstone of American foreign policy. To the point that they are considered to become the "Sixth Eye", not even the Frogs and Jerrys are privy to
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Japan_Alliance
    https://thediplomat.com/2021/04/integrating-japan-into-an-expanded-five-eyes-alliance/

    This is part of the reason why the likes of Mineta can get away with shameless narrative.

    Replies: @gandydancer

  186. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/Peter_Nimitz/status/1436710799171489796

    Replies: @Anonymous, @vinteuil

    What utter scum the criminal Bush family is now and has long been.

    Compared to them, the criminal Biden family is a band of wannabe arrivistes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @vinteuil

    I don’t see how this country can survive the Bush Family, Obama, the Clintons and Biden on top of Pelosi and McConnell, Schumer and Romney. I really do not.

  187. @J.Ross
    @JohnnyWalker123

    We normally say that murder numbers are gold because you can't fake a body, but this atrocious estimating is a case of deaths not borne out by a pound of flesh.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123

    Fine. Cut the numbers in half. Cut them in 10. Still atrocious.

    The Muslims have suffered exponentially more from American aggression than we’ve suffered from their terrorism.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Muslims have suffered exponentially more from American aggression than we’ve suffered from their terrorism.
     
    So your argument is that after 9/11 we should have done nothing to the Taliban because we deserved it.

    I'm not seeing the limiting principle here.

    As between Carthage and Rome I don't know that either had Right on its side.
    But I know which one stopped annoying the other.
    If I were Roman I would have preferred the way it came out.
    Which side are you on?

  188. @gandydancer
    @Uncle Dan


    "estimated"
     
    Clarifying what I take it to be what you were pointing out, the quote was

    "...estimated 654,965 excess deaths..."
     
    and the "estimate" was both made and reported by mathematical/statistical illiterates.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Yes, because Lancet employs “illiterates.”

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Yes, because Lancet employs “illiterates.”
     
    Was that "estimate" from Lancet? LOL!

    I see you're volunteering to self-identify as a mathematical illiterate as well.

    Hint: Do a search for the phrase "significant figures". Or ponder the meaning of "estimating" a large integer to an accuracy of 1.

    Jeez, you're a moron. And a bootlicker, too.

  189. @Uncle Dan
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “estimated”

    Replies: @gandydancer, @JohnnyWalker123

    Yes, estimated. Sort of how we estimate lots of things from public polling/sampling.

    It’s not physically possible to count every person, especially in a war zone.

  190. @vinteuil
    @MEH 0910

    What utter scum the criminal Bush family is now and has long been.

    Compared to them, the criminal Biden family is a band of wannabe arrivistes.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I don’t see how this country can survive the Bush Family, Obama, the Clintons and Biden on top of Pelosi and McConnell, Schumer and Romney. I really do not.

  191. @James B. Shearer
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    "... Wish it was easier to find details/information on this case instead of propaganda, but that’s Google 2021 for you."

    Wikipedia's article is in fact not very good. The three men convicted who were convicted gave varying accounts. Shawn Berry (life in prison) gave his version to Dan Rather. Lawrence Brewer (executed 2011) testified at his trial. John King (executed 2019) gave his version in a couple of letters excerpted here.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Wow, thank you very much, James, for the links and information. Even after scanning it, I’m still not sure what happened and why between Byrd and his murderers. Seems like race was at least a partial motive, but not the full story. What an unusual story.

  192. @bombthe3gorgesdam
    What was the declared motive for those white supremacists who murdered James Byrd? I just looked at the wikipedia page for the murder, but couldn't see anything about motive. Why did James Byrd accept a ride from these flamboyant white supremacists, whose racial views were literally tattooed all over their bodies? Was it really just another drug deal gone bad? Pure hatred for the color of Byrd's skin (that's the conclusion you'd have to draw from the wikipedia page)? One of the murderers, who was eventually executed by the state, claimed to have been repeatedly raped by Blacks in jail before the murder, so, was it revenge for those rapes? You write that James Byrd was a criminal, but that information is not on the wikipedia page for his murder. What sort of criminal was he, and is there a better source of information about him and his murder than wikipedia?

    Replies: @Alden, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    Here’s the testimony of one of the draggers of the nagger: (Funny, I remember it from back then but it’s been memory holed. Wonder why?

    https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1999/09/18/defendant-says-friend-killed-dragging-victim/

    Lawrence Russell Brewer took the stand in his own defense Friday and blamed the brutal dragging death of a black man on a co-defendant. Sobbing, the former leader of a racist prison gang told the jury: “I didn’t mean to cause his death.”

    It was the first testimony by one of the three men charged with killing James Byrd Jr.

    Brewer admitted he was in the pickup truck with co-defendants Shawn Berry and John William King when Byrd was dragged to his death in June 1998. But he said it was Berry who slashed Byrd’s throat, then chained him to the back of the truck and dragged him for three miles along a bumpy country road, shredding and dismembering his body.

    (SNIP)

    As the defense began its case Friday, Brewer, 32, testified that Byrd was riding with the three defendants in the pickup when Berry stopped to take some steroids. King lit a cigarette, he said, and Byrd walked around the truck and said, “Let me smoke with you white boys.”

    Next, Brewer said, he heard some glass break and saw King and Byrd fighting.

    “I don’t know what to do,” Brewer testified. “When I go around the corner of the truck, I tried to kick Byrd in his side.”

    Brewer said he tried to break it up. “That’s when I heard snapping of Shawn’s knife. He popped it open . . . Shawn came around and I guess cut his (Byrd’s) throat.

    Funny, the nigro, who was drunk and, according to his family, an aggressive drunk, goes up to three White ex-cons, tough guys who hated nigros, and called them “White boys”.

    If a drunk White Man called three nigbo the “N” word, I wonder if anyone would care if he was killed.

    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
    @AceDeuce

    Very interesting, thanks for the info. Seems like Byrd badly misjudged how dangerous these "white boys" were and paid dearly for disrespecting them by using that racial epithet. The steroids and the shame of being repeatedly raped in prison by Blacks might also have contributed to their violent reaction.

  193. @Sean
    @Thomm


    This article directly contradicts the TUR narrative that Israel’s Mossad was the mastermind of 9/11.

    If that is the case, then Arabs should not have been profiled at all, since they were neither the masterminds of nor executors of the attack.
     
    Be that as it may, or may not, the official narrative has Saudis led by bin Laden doing 9/11. So Steve has an excellent point inasmuch why is their no memory among the public that Bush opposed airport security paying close attention to Arabs?

    On the other hand, his father when president received an 89% approval rating, the highest presidential job approval rating ever, after the war to expel Saddam's forces from Kuwait. I think Bush the younger's approval rating was affected by a perception that 9/11 happening showed he had not done a great job. The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Colin Wright

    ‘The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.’

    Don’t think our support for the Zionist entity had anything to do with that? Bin Laden was just blowing smoke about that part?

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Colin Wright

    Saudi Arabian oil wealth was known to be the greatest prize in the world and the Saud family regime kept that wealth under US control. The Saud family dictatorship was threatened by radical nationalism among countries where the bulk of the Arab population lived, having been been cut off from the oil wealth (creation of 'countries' like Kuwait). Originally, American support of Israel had everything to do with a belief it could keep Arab nationalism under control.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

  194. @Anon
    The ADL released its 20 year report on Antisemitic conspiracy theories related to 9/11. It seriously reads like a who’s who on Unz’s website.

    https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/antisemitic-conspiracies-about-911-endure-20-years-later

    Replies: @HammerJack

    Not clicking on an ADL link, but let’s just say that Ron’s ethos is “Let a thousand flowers bloom.” At least I think they’re flowers and I think that’s blooming that they’re doing.

  195. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    That’s ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    We’d probably have to borrow some money.

  196. @Abolish_public_education
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I was only half paying attention to the TV, but the reporter narrated something about how great it was that some marooned Americans had finally gotten out of Afghanistan. The video showed a bunch of hajib-wearing travelers deplaning down the mobile staircase.

    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California's favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.

    Replies: @Thea, @AceDeuce

    Mineta should remind Americans that the leading voice for putting guys like him in prison camps was progressive hero and California’s favorite son (but still non-canceled) Earl Warren.

    And the strongest voice in DC against Jap interment, who almost prevailed in stopping it before being overruled, was mean ol’ J. Edgar Hoover.

  197. @gandydancer
    @Cato


    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    “LOL. It appears you didn’t understand my post. Read the whole thing.”

    Those words were Yglesias’, not yours.
     
    Nope. Here's the relevant part of Errican's post:

    Via Steve’s Twitter feed:
    [tweet]

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    Unless I’m mistaken, in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.
     
    If he wrote the last two sentences (and it certainly appears that he did) then he's responsible for the sentence before that. Who else? They're after and outside Yglesias’ tweet.

    Replies: @Cato

    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia’s words, which I quoted in my post. I couldn’t make head or tail of what JIE said. Or maybe you know what this means?

    in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cato


    I couldn’t make head or tail of what JIE said.
     
    My comment tongue-in-cheek suggested that both Yglesias now, and Sailer in April 2020, are/were in favor of military against China for unleashing COVID-19 on the world, with Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.

    To understand my original comment, some basic things helpful to know:

    1) Analogies. Yglesias compared the American response to 9/11 to an unspecified underreaction to “fatalities from Covid”—leaving the ‘rhetorical possibility’ that Yglesias advocates military/violent action against whoever is responsible for unleashing COVID-19.

    2) Steve was very unhappy and freaked out about COVID-19 in spring 2020. By then it was known to have originated in China and that the Chinese government tried to cover up the outbreak.

    3) U.S. military operations usually have two-word “nicknames” often related to the objective itself (e.g., Desert Shield). My invented “Drop Dragon” strongly implies “collapse China”.

    4) In context of the above points, the April 2020 iSteve headlines I selected have a threatening vibe, e.g. “Ventilated”—slang for being shot to death, “The Parking Lot Solution”—harkening to the phrase “glass parking lot” meaning an area/nation flattened by nuclear strikes.

    5) Steve’s blog is oft remarked to be read by important people who would never admit it: I imagined an ‘alt-timeline’ scenario that Pentagon brass would receive Steve’s ‘message’ and act on it.

    6) Below the dashed line, to make it all exceedingly obvious, I posted a reference to the Cold War movie War Games (in which a military supercomputer goes rogue and contemplates nuclear first strike scenarios between geopolitical foes) with Sailer’s and Yglesias’s presumably preferred action of SINO CAVITATION (i.e. China hollowing/collapse) resulting in a U.S. military victory.

    It seems a number of commenters here (not you, necessarily) are ‘autistic’ literalists constrained by Overton Window thinking, so some of my comments go over their heads.

    Here’s another example, when I suggested that globalist Will Wilkinson’s concept of “convergence”, if all possibilities are considered, could unwittingly be advocating genocide committed by First World nations to solve global inequality, a strategy I dubbed Macrophage Rapid Convergence:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/a-theory-about-why-judge-bazelon-could-empathize-with-criminals/#comment-3146401 (#96)

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @gandydancer
    @Cato


    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia’s words, which I quoted in my post.
     
    The words you quoted in the post I responded to were DIE's, not Yglesias'. Followed by your declaration that "the words" were Y's, not DIE's. Why so cryptic?
  198. @J.Ross
    @JohnnyWalker123

    We normally say that murder numbers are gold because you can't fake a body, but this atrocious estimating is a case of deaths not borne out by a pound of flesh.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123

    Fine. Divide the number in 2. Divide it in 10. It’s still astronomically larger than the number killed on 9/11.

    By the way, the U.S. has spent \$8 trillion on its “War on Terror.” Given that America spent HALF that sum on WWII and killed such a massive number of people during that conflict, the above referenced “War on Terror” numbers are totally plausible. Especially given how much more powerful bombs and munitions have gotten since then.

    https://www.brown.edu/news/2021-09-01/costsofwar

    The problem with the above-referenced “War on Terror” numbers isn’t that they’re fake. The problem is that those numbers are politically incorrect.

    Most Americans are invested in a narrative that promotes themselves as victims and Muslims as aggressors. Most posters here are invested in a broader narrative of White victimization and Non-White perfidy. That’s why the above numbers are politically incorrect. All of that contradicts the narrative.

  199. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I was speaking out against any war in Iraq from more than a year before and a long war in Afghanistan from 9/26/2001. But ... the Lancet was faked. There is no way that hired Iraqi researchers went door to door in randomly chosen neighborhoods in Iraq in 2006 and asked prying questions. That was a good way to get a hole drilled in your head in 2006:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/updated-depressing-news-of-day/

    "The more I think about the mechanics of carrying out the survey on the street without getting killed, the more I suspect that the Iraqi interviewers didn’t actually implement the purely random survey design that the American professors from MIT and Johns Hopkins dreamed up for them. It would be nuts to to let luck determine which streets you’d choose, as the report claims they did. You’d want to only go where you knew you’d be safe. Then you’d tell the Americans you did exactly what they told you to do."

    Replies: @El Dato, @Corvinus, @JohnnyWalker123

    You’re right. I don’t think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe. Therefore, to the extent that the survey data is distorted, it’s an UNDERESTIMATE of the true number of people killed. If they walked down the unsafe streets with a high mortality rate, they would’ve found an even higher death rate.

    The above doesn’t even take into account families who were totally annihilated or forced to flee after numerous deaths. If you included that, the number of deaths would’ve been even higher.

    To the extent that the Lancet Survey is “faked,” it’s an underestimate.

    I’d lastly mention that the Lancet study excluded the death toll from Fallujah. Mostly because the numbers were too extreme. To the extent that the authors of this study distorted the results, they pushed the numbers in a conservative direction. If they had wanted to inflate the death toll, they would’ve included Fallujah.

    By the way, the Lancet Survey was later somewhat corroborated by the 2007/2008 ORB London survey. While that survey found larger numbers, it was conducted at a later date too. The ORB figures indicate that Lancet might’ve underestimated the death toll in Iraq. See below.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties

    On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB International, an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007.[2][3] In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.

    On 28 January 2008, ORB published an update based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken September 20 to 24, 2007. As a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.[4][5

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    You’re right. I don’t think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe.

    Or the hired workers sat at home and made up results.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  200. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Steve Sailer

    You're right. I don't think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe. Therefore, to the extent that the survey data is distorted, it's an UNDERESTIMATE of the true number of people killed. If they walked down the unsafe streets with a high mortality rate, they would've found an even higher death rate.

    The above doesn't even take into account families who were totally annihilated or forced to flee after numerous deaths. If you included that, the number of deaths would've been even higher.

    To the extent that the Lancet Survey is "faked," it's an underestimate.

    I'd lastly mention that the Lancet study excluded the death toll from Fallujah. Mostly because the numbers were too extreme. To the extent that the authors of this study distorted the results, they pushed the numbers in a conservative direction. If they had wanted to inflate the death toll, they would've included Fallujah.

    By the way, the Lancet Survey was later somewhat corroborated by the 2007/2008 ORB London survey. While that survey found larger numbers, it was conducted at a later date too. The ORB figures indicate that Lancet might've underestimated the death toll in Iraq. See below.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB International, an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007.[2][3] In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.

    On 28 January 2008, ORB published an update based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken September 20 to 24, 2007. As a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.[4][5
     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    You’re right. I don’t think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe.

    Or the hired workers sat at home and made up results.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    THAT'S CONSPIRACY THEORY! YOU'RE DOUBTING DEMOCRACY! WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT UNMONITORED UNCHECKED LOW LEVEL BUREAUCRATS IN INFAMOUSLY CORRUPT CITIES WERE NOT NAKEDLY HONEST AT ALL TIMES? AND, PER TRADITION, GAKKRZ RUSSKIYI, TOTES ADORBS.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  201. @anonymous

    James Byrd, the Emmett Till-Rodney King of the era, a black criminal murdered by three white criminals in Bush’s Texas, in order to promote a Hate Crimes law.
     
    Typical Steve Sailer behavior. You just have to mention the murder victim had a criminal record (petty theft) despite any lack of relevance with his murder because pure evil racism couldn't possibly exist.

    On June 7, 1998, Byrd, age 49, accepted a ride from Shawn Berry (age 23), Lawrence Brewer (age 31), and John King (age 23). Berry, who was driving, was acquainted with Byrd from around town. Instead of taking Byrd home, the three men took Byrd to a remote county road out of town, beat him severely, spray-painted his face,[18] urinated and defecated on him,[19] and chained him by his ankles to their pickup truck before dragging him for about three miles (five kilometers). Brewer later claimed that Byrd's throat had been slashed by Berry before he was dragged. However, forensic evidence suggests that Byrd had been attempting to keep his head up while being dragged, and an autopsy suggested that Byrd was alive during much of the dragging. Byrd died about halfway along the route of his dragging, when his right arm and head were severed as his body hit a culvert.[2] While almost all of Byrd's ribs were fractured, his brain and skull were found intact, further suggesting that he maintained consciousness while he was being dragged.[20]

    Berry, Brewer, and King dumped the mutilated remains of Byrd's body in front of an African-American church on Huff Creek Road, then drove off to a barbecue.[21] A motorist found Byrd's decapitated remains the following morning.[22] Along the area where Byrd was dragged, police found a wrench with "Berry" written on it. They also found a lighter that was inscribed with "Possum", which was King's prison nickname.[21] The police found 81 places that included portions of Byrd's remains.[21][23]
     

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag

    Narrative maintenance.

  202. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    That’s an immense wall of crap. More Japs died after Pearl Harbor than Americans. More Germans, too. We’re supposed to feel bad about that?

  203. @Anon
    Steve, your "12-results" 10-word-long search is ridiculous. You designed it so it would only find your pages. Just remove the quotes and you get a zillion results. The quotes require that writers have used the exact same wording as you. And most writers would not include "Mineta" in this discussion, whose contribution at any rate was after the fact and was not in any way a binding regulatory communication.

    However, you'd make a good SEO consultant. They construct unlikely searches like this to prove to their customers that their pages are now coming up on Google's top results page. It's not hard to do this in considerably fewer than 10 words. The problem is that the searches are not popular enough to result in any traffic.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @gandydancer

    In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE…
    Thus, out of the billions of words written about 9/11, there have been very, very few references to this counter-narrative narrative. If I do a google search for:

    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    I get 12 hits, half of them by me.

    You object to Sailer’s search, and claim to come up with “a zillion results” by relaxing them, but you point to exactly none that make the connection between the Bush/Mineta anti-racial profiling campaign and 9/11. So your response is an irrelevant distraction. Try again.

  204. @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Here's how I interpret this post: "Nobody but Steve has been smart enough to notice this. Proof: Nobody has used this particular direct quote from Bush on the web in this context."

    My point: You can"notice" this by paraphrasing what he said then, or by a direct quote from the campaign trail when he was harping on the same point. For instance, these guys managed to notice the same thing without quoting the debate:

    https://civilrights.org/2001/10/24/racial-profiling-and-the-september-11-attacks/

    I got this with "bush 9/11 profiling"," and there's a lot more there.

    The words "debate,," "2000," and "mindsets" are unnecessary. You should remove the quotes to allow for paraphrasing or variations from other occasions. At that point, "Arab-Americans" has synonyms you don't want to exclude, and it really isn't necessary given the search term "9/11," as my search showed, so you get rid of it. "Racially" could be "ethnically": Get rid of it. "Are" is on the stoplist and isn't considered in searches: Get rid of it. If you get too much noise from, say "culinarily profiled," use Google's Boolean search operators and list up only the possibilities you want, or the exclusion operator to exclude.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Are you and Anon[311] the same person? Because you and he both do the same obnoxiously stupid thing. Again, here is what Steve wrote:

    In contrary, the high likelihood that George W. Bush’s anti-racial profiling campaign contributed to 9/11 … well, DOES NOT COMPUTE…
    Thus, out of the billions of words written about 9/11, there have been very, very few references to this counter-narrative narrative. If I do a google search for:

    bush debate 2000 “Arab-Americans are racially profiled” 9/11 mineta

    I get 12 hits, half of them by me.

    You object to Sailer’s search, and come up with “a lot” of results. But then you make the mistake of providing an example… which on examination turns out to be some moron complaining, like, Mineta, about “racial profiling” of Arabs after 9/11. What STEVE looked for is evidence of anyone making the connection between the Bush/Mineta anti-racial profiling campaign and 9/11 happening. Try again, or admit failure and irrelevance.

  205. @JohnnyWalker123
    @gandydancer

    Yes, because Lancet employs "illiterates."

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Yes, because Lancet employs “illiterates.”

    Was that “estimate” from Lancet? LOL!

    I see you’re volunteering to self-identify as a mathematical illiterate as well.

    Hint: Do a search for the phrase “significant figures”. Or ponder the meaning of “estimating” a large integer to an accuracy of 1.

    Jeez, you’re a moron. And a bootlicker, too.

  206. @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    I won't substantiate this but I'm certain I have seen and may even have some copies of images like this; I believe there are also brief video images of people with minor injuries in the various famous videos, ie, bloodied. At the same time that the Satanic pedophiles who despise freedom and knowledge threw the election, they shut down many valuable web sites, among them Best Gore, which, like 4chan, was both unpleasant and often necessary. It can't be checked but I believe Best Gore had IX/XI stuff. Morgan sounds less like he's deliberately lying for some purpose and more like he's being a goldfish-memory airhead vomiting false conclusions from whatever is right in front of him at that moment. Of course people had minor injuries in a block-wide cascade of glass, stone, and metal.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    I did a search for “9/11 bodies” or somesuch on ddg, and while I did turn up a gore site they admitted that they weren’t sure the pics were all from 9/11. There was one very bloody woman sitting up and being attended to on the images page, but that led to a url that gave me an get-outta-here vibe and I did. But indeed there were fewer clear body shots than I expected. However, except for shots of the jumper bodies I expect there were mostly just a lot of parts covered in dust. A pancaking skyscraper would be expected to be a pretty good blender of its contents. Separately I noted that the Wikipedia article on a couple of the flights mention things like a femur or a passenger id’d from DNA. among other things. And then there’s the pictures of people coming down the stairs as the firemen went up. I’m not sure what “goldfish memory” means, but I’m sure you’re right. What those two are saying/implying doesn’t make a bit of sense.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    You're not sure what, uh, that term, uh, [EYE WIDENING] means [eyes normal]? Well, uh, actually, I'm not sure I, uh, exactly, [EYE WIDENING] remember [eyes normal].

  207. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @gandydancer

    You may be outraged to find that, the man who signed the Declaration of War against the United States, Kishi Nobusuke, whose grandson, would go on to become the Japanese Prime Minister, Abe Shinzo, and America's closest Asian ally.

    (This is akin to Göring's grandson become the German Chancellor).

    Or that Abe just paid visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, where Tojo Hideki is enshrined.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#War_criminals

    But this is simply the case. World War II was with China and Russia against Germany and Japan, now it's the other way around.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Why would I be more upset about the PM than Hirohito not being hung? Nah, I’m, not outraged. Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan’s attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch, but by the time Obama attacked him is should have been water under the bridge. The Game of Nations isn’t patty-cake, history is red of tooth and claw on all sides, and certain kinds of international “law” are bunkum. And the original post whining about dead Arabs was puerile.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @gandydancer

    Hirohito not being hung? Preservation of the Emperor and kokutai 国体 national polity was part of the deal.

    Otherwise Downfall would have taken place and with no guarantee of ending the war in 1945 (even after the 2 bombs and Soviet entry)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

    Their post-War treatment was significantly more lenient than for Germans (with the support of Chiang Kai-Shek). No partition, no de-nazification, no violent repatriation of civilians.

    You might not care about Yasukuni Shrine but that is a significant issue in CJK relations. But as my handle implies I respect the Japs for being based, since the opposite leads to Merkel's Boner which leads to disaster for everyone.

    Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan’s attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch

    There's a little more to this


    Crypto AG had already earlier been accused of rigging its machines in collusion with intelligence agencies such as NSA, GCHQ, and the German Federal Intelligence Service (BND), enabling the agencies to read the encrypted traffic produced by the machines.[4][16] Suspicions of this collusion were aroused in 1986 following US president Ronald Reagan's announcement on national television that, through interception of diplomatic communications between Tripoli and the Libyan embassy in East Berlin, he had irrefutable evidence that Muammar Gaddafi of Libya was behind the West Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986. President Reagan then ordered the bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi in retaliation. There is no conclusive evidence that there was an intercepted Libyan message.[citation needed]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG#Compromised_machines

    Replies: @gandydancer

  208. @Colin Wright
    @Sean

    'The major mistake was by his father and Brent Scowcroft in not ousting Saddam. which by necessitating a US army remaining in Saudi Arabia, created bin Laden as a terrorist leader.'

    Don't think our support for the Zionist entity had anything to do with that? Bin Laden was just blowing smoke about that part?

    Replies: @Sean

    Saudi Arabian oil wealth was known to be the greatest prize in the world and the Saud family regime kept that wealth under US control. The Saud family dictatorship was threatened by radical nationalism among countries where the bulk of the Arab population lived, having been been cut off from the oil wealth (creation of ‘countries’ like Kuwait). Originally, American support of Israel had everything to do with a belief it could keep Arab nationalism under control.

    • Troll: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Sean

    The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Sean

    , @Colin Wright
    @Sean

    Zionism.

    Replies: @Sean

  209. @Cato
    @gandydancer

    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia's words, which I quoted in my post. I couldn't make head or tail of what JIE said. Or maybe you know what this means?


    in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.
     

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @gandydancer

    I couldn’t make head or tail of what JIE said.

    My comment tongue-in-cheek suggested that both Yglesias now, and Sailer in April 2020, are/were in favor of military against China for unleashing COVID-19 on the world, with Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.

    To understand my original comment, some basic things helpful to know:

    [MORE]

    1) Analogies. Yglesias compared the American response to 9/11 to an unspecified underreaction to “fatalities from Covid”—leaving the ‘rhetorical possibility’ that Yglesias advocates military/violent action against whoever is responsible for unleashing COVID-19.

    2) Steve was very unhappy and freaked out about COVID-19 in spring 2020. By then it was known to have originated in China and that the Chinese government tried to cover up the outbreak.

    3) U.S. military operations usually have two-word “nicknames” often related to the objective itself (e.g., Desert Shield). My invented “Drop Dragon” strongly implies “collapse China”.

    4) In context of the above points, the April 2020 iSteve headlines I selected have a threatening vibe, e.g. “Ventilated”—slang for being shot to death, “The Parking Lot Solution”—harkening to the phrase “glass parking lot” meaning an area/nation flattened by nuclear strikes.

    5) Steve’s blog is oft remarked to be read by important people who would never admit it: I imagined an ‘alt-timeline’ scenario that Pentagon brass would receive Steve’s ‘message’ and act on it.

    6) Below the dashed line, to make it all exceedingly obvious, I posted a reference to the Cold War movie War Games (in which a military supercomputer goes rogue and contemplates nuclear first strike scenarios between geopolitical foes) with Sailer’s and Yglesias’s presumably preferred action of SINO CAVITATION (i.e. China hollowing/collapse) resulting in a U.S. military victory.

    It seems a number of commenters here (not you, necessarily) are ‘autistic’ literalists constrained by Overton Window thinking, so some of my comments go over their heads.

    Here’s another example, when I suggested that globalist Will Wilkinson’s concept of “convergence”, if all possibilities are considered, could unwittingly be advocating genocide committed by First World nations to solve global inequality, a strategy I dubbed Macrophage Rapid Convergence:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/a-theory-about-why-judge-bazelon-could-empathize-with-criminals/#comment-3146401 (#96)

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    ...Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.
     
    That no one noticed that you were saying this isn't a case of what you are saying going over anyone's head, but a case of no one other than you hearing, and being convinced by, the voices in your head. Out here in the real world it's lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions to what those voices are saying. Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    that you didn't mean it. You may think you have, but your brain is broken.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  210. Anonymous[304] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    @Colin Wright

    Saudi Arabian oil wealth was known to be the greatest prize in the world and the Saud family regime kept that wealth under US control. The Saud family dictatorship was threatened by radical nationalism among countries where the bulk of the Arab population lived, having been been cut off from the oil wealth (creation of 'countries' like Kuwait). Originally, American support of Israel had everything to do with a belief it could keep Arab nationalism under control.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

    The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Anonymous

    'The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.'

    Sean's a Zionist. It's foolish to assume he's arguing in good faith.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    , @Sean
    @Anonymous

    Israel was small but from the begining proved formidable: a humiliation for the Arabs. Originally Britain was in the Middle East in order to protect the Suez route to India (which in reality had ceased to pay after the opium trade with China declined). The Western powers were lobbied by commercial oil interests against the creation of a large Arab state after WW2, because they thought such a powerful entity would be too strong and difficult to deal with.

    Giving Israel to the Jews was a part of the divide and rule policy against Arabs; the Arab countries surrounding Palestine wanted to grab its territory in order to add to their own. Separating the oil wealth of the region from the population, and diverting the bulk of the population into squabbling states was the policy. Israel both diverted the Arabs and set them against one another. In the event of Israel not having come into existence: the Saud family dictatorship would have had very serious problems staying in power in Saudi Arabia.

  211. @Ralph L
    @gandydancer

    In the DoD world, WMD were once denoted as NBC: nuclear, biological, chemical.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    In the DoD world, WMD were once denoted as NBC: nuclear, biological, chemical.

    Still are. https://www.weaponsystems.net/system/310-Leclerc
    But this is when the subject is filtration and decontamination.
    As weapons one of those is not remotely the same as the others.

  212. @JohnnyWalker123
    @J.Ross

    Fine. Cut the numbers in half. Cut them in 10. Still atrocious.

    The Muslims have suffered exponentially more from American aggression than we've suffered from their terrorism.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    The Muslims have suffered exponentially more from American aggression than we’ve suffered from their terrorism.

    So your argument is that after 9/11 we should have done nothing to the Taliban because we deserved it.

    I’m not seeing the limiting principle here.

    As between Carthage and Rome I don’t know that either had Right on its side.
    But I know which one stopped annoying the other.
    If I were Roman I would have preferred the way it came out.
    Which side are you on?

  213. @Cato
    @gandydancer

    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia's words, which I quoted in my post. I couldn't make head or tail of what JIE said. Or maybe you know what this means?


    in April at the height of the China Virus 2020 Spring Lockdown, Steve gave a reverse-chrono sequential coded nod to the Pentagon for operation Drop Dragon.
     

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @gandydancer

    All I said was that I was responding to Yglesia’s words, which I quoted in my post.

    The words you quoted in the post I responded to were DIE’s, not Yglesias’. Followed by your declaration that “the words” were Y’s, not DIE’s. Why so cryptic?

  214. @Jonathan Mason
    And don't forget that Bush appointed Condoleezza Rice as his national security advisor, who later said nobody could ever have imagined hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings, even though the idea had been part of a Tom Clancy novel.

    So then this utterly incompetent National Security Advisor who let down the president so badly was then promoted to Secretary of State.

    Bush was then advised to reinstate torture in the form of waterboarding, a crime for which the United States had previously executed foreigners.

    But then, as Bush later said, "I am the decider."

    Unfortunately.

    Bush was without a doubt the worst president in American history--until Trump dethroned him. There is a good case to argue that Bush ought to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein.

    I don't always agree with iSteve, but he is right about Bush Jr.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @gandydancer

    Bush was without a doubt the worst president in American history–until Trump dethroned him. There is a good case to argue that Bush ought to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein.

    Recentism. Blatant, obvious, puerile recentism. Also TDS. Trump wasn’t good, but he was better than, say, Obama OR Bush. Either Bush.

    My candidate for “recent” worst is LBJ.

  215. @Sean
    @Colin Wright

    Saudi Arabian oil wealth was known to be the greatest prize in the world and the Saud family regime kept that wealth under US control. The Saud family dictatorship was threatened by radical nationalism among countries where the bulk of the Arab population lived, having been been cut off from the oil wealth (creation of 'countries' like Kuwait). Originally, American support of Israel had everything to do with a belief it could keep Arab nationalism under control.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

    Zionism.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Colin Wright

    Of course the influence of international Jewry supporting Zionism was an important factor in the support for the foundation of Israel after WW1, but the Balfour declaration was in aid of Brritain winning the war. Post WW1 and even more so post WW2 there was an enduring strategic imperative of keeping control of Arab oil. There could be a greatly increased importance of Saudi Arabia if CO2 fracking becomes a thing.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  216. @Anonymous
    @Sean

    The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Sean

    ‘The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.’

    Sean’s a Zionist. It’s foolish to assume he’s arguing in good faith.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Colin Wright


    Sean’s a Zionist. It’s foolish to assume he’s arguing in good faith.
     
    You're a moron, which is why you think that's a counterargument.
  217. @Anonymous
    @Sean

    The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Sean

    Israel was small but from the begining proved formidable: a humiliation for the Arabs. Originally Britain was in the Middle East in order to protect the Suez route to India (which in reality had ceased to pay after the opium trade with China declined). The Western powers were lobbied by commercial oil interests against the creation of a large Arab state after WW2, because they thought such a powerful entity would be too strong and difficult to deal with.

    Giving Israel to the Jews was a part of the divide and rule policy against Arabs; the Arab countries surrounding Palestine wanted to grab its territory in order to add to their own. Separating the oil wealth of the region from the population, and diverting the bulk of the population into squabbling states was the policy. Israel both diverted the Arabs and set them against one another. In the event of Israel not having come into existence: the Saud family dictatorship would have had very serious problems staying in power in Saudi Arabia.

  218. @JohnnyWalker123
    9/11 offered Bush the opportunity to start a prolonged "War on Terror" (which continues through today). This "War on Terror" has killed a huge number of foreigners.

    According to the Lancet study, as of June 2006, Bush's Iraq War killed over 650,000 Iraqis (see below excerpt). 2.5% of the Iraqi population was killed. For comparison, 9/11 (which triggered the Iraq War for some reason) killed roughly 0.001% of America's population. Yet for some reason, you hear endlessly about 9/11, but never about all the people that America killed overseas. Very odd....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties


    The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006.
     
    That number has risen to 2.4 million (!!!) deaths (see below excerpt). Which is absolutely amazing. That's ~800x the death toll of 9/11. Imagine if 800 9/11s happened in America. 800.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion


    But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

     


    Taking ORB’s estimate of 1.033 million killed by June 2007, then applying a variation of Just Foreign Policy’s methodology from July 2007 to the present using revised figures from Iraq Body Count, we estimate that 2.4 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 as a result of our country’s illegal invasion, with a minimum of 1.5 million and a maximum of 3.4 million.

     

    The above statistics are only for Iraq. Not our other wars in the Middle East, such as Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc. All those other countries have been decimated by America too.

    The U.S. "War on Terror" has created 37 million refugees in the Middle East. See below video.

    37 million!!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2rF_T9om8

    These truly are astronomical numbers. Yet for some odd reason, nobody in America has paid any price for all these deaths. Not politicians, not troops, not media personalities. Nobody.

    Most of the people responsible for starting these wars happened to be White male Republicans, while the people who died were over overwhelmingly "People of Color." Yet for some odd reason, no one (not even the most extreme of liberals) has tried to hold anyone accountable for these war crimes. The idea of sending Bush&Cheney to War Crimes tribunals has been dismissed as fanciful.

    On 9/11, we should reflect on the fact that the true victims of 9/11 really aren't American civilians, but all the foreigners who've been slaughtered/maimed/orphaned/widowed by our nonsensical, never ending "War on Terror."

    See the below video for the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at our Commander-in-Chief during his last visit there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFH7C3vkK4

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-ducks-two-shoes-hurled-by-iraqi-016566


    "This is a gift from the Iraqis. This is the farewell kiss, you dog," the journalist shouted (in Arabic), Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times reported in a pool report to the White House press corps.

    Myers reported that the man threw the second shoe and added: "This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq."
     

    That shoe thrower should have a statue built for him in Washington DC.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Uncle Dan, @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @HammerJack, @gandydancer, @Colin Wright

    ‘…According to the Lancet study…’

    But The Lancet has no credibility.

  219. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You are being terribly American-centric but I don't blame you. The Japanese struck at Pearl simultaneously as with British and Dutch colonies.

    The Western historians never bothered to translate this but its call 南方作戦 Southern Operation Nanpo Sakusen
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南方作戦(なんぽうさくせん)
    https://imgur.com/guwSW2V
    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen
    https://imgur.com/KoceYh1

    Replies: @J.Ross, @gandydancer

    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen

    You’ve got cause and effect backasswards. There was zero chance of Japan invading the USSR. They’d been bloodied twice already, and had quite enough of the Bear. Anyway, don’t mistake the existence of staff busywork for proof of intent. We still had a Color Plan to sortie the US Fleet to the Philippines, but everyone knew it was a non-starter in ’41. (Except Churchill., who somehow thought that a force of a couple BB/BC was something other than contemptible.)

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @gandydancer

    That may be. But the Soviets increased manpower on the Far East from June to December 1941, from 650,000 to 1,200,000 (yes, during Barbarossa)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen#Soviet_response

    And bear in mind that Unit 731 was based in Northern Manchuria

  220. @J.Ross
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The taking of the Western Empires' Asian colonies was one of the most impressive military feats in history and a stunning illustration of momentum. The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.

    I understand that that’s just shorthand, but it wasn’t any brilliance by Zhukov that resulted in the discouraging result for the Kwantung Army that when they massed all their available artillery for a Big Push on the Khalkin Gol that the Soviet Artillery fired back at 10:1 using guns that theirs couldn’t even reach. And the Japs had thought they had the railhead advantage, too.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @gandydancer

    White Anglo Anglos at their height absolutely took for granted that they could conquer the United States of Mexico, so they sent Smedley Darlington Butler (Medal of Honor, Medal of Honor, etc) to do like the last ten miles and fifty hours of like logistics (cos why even prep), and he toured Mexico disguised weakly as a tourist (having previously had a thoroughly mixed experience fighting a Mexican general who anticipated some Vietnamese and really Italian wisdom), and he came back with the unsettling verdict that actually Mexico cannot be conquered. Everyone takes the conquest of Russia for granted until they try it. carat but the Mongols redditspace The Mongols are a lot more complex and competent than any Westerner gives them credit for. They sent spies two years in advance. They knew the weather at almanac level before they gave "pferd vor."

  221. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cato


    I couldn’t make head or tail of what JIE said.
     
    My comment tongue-in-cheek suggested that both Yglesias now, and Sailer in April 2020, are/were in favor of military against China for unleashing COVID-19 on the world, with Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.

    To understand my original comment, some basic things helpful to know:

    1) Analogies. Yglesias compared the American response to 9/11 to an unspecified underreaction to “fatalities from Covid”—leaving the ‘rhetorical possibility’ that Yglesias advocates military/violent action against whoever is responsible for unleashing COVID-19.

    2) Steve was very unhappy and freaked out about COVID-19 in spring 2020. By then it was known to have originated in China and that the Chinese government tried to cover up the outbreak.

    3) U.S. military operations usually have two-word “nicknames” often related to the objective itself (e.g., Desert Shield). My invented “Drop Dragon” strongly implies “collapse China”.

    4) In context of the above points, the April 2020 iSteve headlines I selected have a threatening vibe, e.g. “Ventilated”—slang for being shot to death, “The Parking Lot Solution”—harkening to the phrase “glass parking lot” meaning an area/nation flattened by nuclear strikes.

    5) Steve’s blog is oft remarked to be read by important people who would never admit it: I imagined an ‘alt-timeline’ scenario that Pentagon brass would receive Steve’s ‘message’ and act on it.

    6) Below the dashed line, to make it all exceedingly obvious, I posted a reference to the Cold War movie War Games (in which a military supercomputer goes rogue and contemplates nuclear first strike scenarios between geopolitical foes) with Sailer’s and Yglesias’s presumably preferred action of SINO CAVITATION (i.e. China hollowing/collapse) resulting in a U.S. military victory.

    It seems a number of commenters here (not you, necessarily) are ‘autistic’ literalists constrained by Overton Window thinking, so some of my comments go over their heads.

    Here’s another example, when I suggested that globalist Will Wilkinson’s concept of “convergence”, if all possibilities are considered, could unwittingly be advocating genocide committed by First World nations to solve global inequality, a strategy I dubbed Macrophage Rapid Convergence:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/a-theory-about-why-judge-bazelon-could-empathize-with-criminals/#comment-3146401 (#96)

    Replies: @gandydancer

    …Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.

    That no one noticed that you were saying this isn’t a case of what you are saying going over anyone’s head, but a case of no one other than you hearing, and being convinced by, the voices in your head. Out here in the real world it’s lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions to what those voices are saying. Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    that you didn’t mean it. You may think you have, but your brain is broken.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer


    Out here in the real world it’s lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions ...
     
    Well sure, if you’re an angry maroon, it would be hard for you to catch allusions. Look, you're stupid, that's not a crime in itself, but it's silly to get mad at me just because you're an autistic literalist:

    Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    that you didn’t mean it.
     

    Replies: @gandydancer

  222. @gandydancer
    @J.Ross

    I did a search for "9/11 bodies" or somesuch on ddg, and while I did turn up a gore site they admitted that they weren't sure the pics were all from 9/11. There was one very bloody woman sitting up and being attended to on the images page, but that led to a url that gave me an get-outta-here vibe and I did. But indeed there were fewer clear body shots than I expected. However, except for shots of the jumper bodies I expect there were mostly just a lot of parts covered in dust. A pancaking skyscraper would be expected to be a pretty good blender of its contents. Separately I noted that the Wikipedia article on a couple of the flights mention things like a femur or a passenger id'd from DNA. among other things. And then there's the pictures of people coming down the stairs as the firemen went up. I'm not sure what "goldfish memory" means, but I'm sure you're right. What those two are saying/implying doesn't make a bit of sense.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    You’re not sure what, uh, that term, uh, [EYE WIDENING] means [eyes normal]? Well, uh, actually, I’m not sure I, uh, exactly, [EYE WIDENING] remember [eyes normal].

  223. @gandydancer
    @J.Ross


    The decision to not invade the USSR at that time was because they had tried it earlier and gotten rocked by Zhukov.
     
    I understand that that's just shorthand, but it wasn't any brilliance by Zhukov that resulted in the discouraging result for the Kwantung Army that when they massed all their available artillery for a Big Push on the Khalkin Gol that the Soviet Artillery fired back at 10:1 using guns that theirs couldn't even reach. And the Japs had thought they had the railhead advantage, too.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    White Anglo Anglos at their height absolutely took for granted that they could conquer the United States of Mexico, so they sent Smedley Darlington Butler (Medal of Honor, Medal of Honor, etc) to do like the last ten miles and fifty hours of like logistics (cos why even prep), and he toured Mexico disguised weakly as a tourist (having previously had a thoroughly mixed experience fighting a Mexican general who anticipated some Vietnamese and really Italian wisdom), and he came back with the unsettling verdict that actually Mexico cannot be conquered. Everyone takes the conquest of Russia for granted until they try it. carat but the Mongols redditspace The Mongols are a lot more complex and competent than any Westerner gives them credit for. They sent spies two years in advance. They knew the weather at almanac level before they gave “pferd vor.”

  224. @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    ...Sailer uncharacteristically having gone so far as to advocate (in ‘code’ through his real-life article headlines) a first-strike nuclear attack on China.
     
    That no one noticed that you were saying this isn't a case of what you are saying going over anyone's head, but a case of no one other than you hearing, and being convinced by, the voices in your head. Out here in the real world it's lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions to what those voices are saying. Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    that you didn't mean it. You may think you have, but your brain is broken.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Out here in the real world it’s lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions …

    Well sure, if you’re an angry maroon, it would be hard for you to catch allusions. Look, you’re stupid, that’s not a crime in itself, but it’s silly to get mad at me just because you’re an autistic literalist:

    Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.

    that you didn’t mean it.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    If you think that that is an "allusion" then you are a delusional cretin. But we already knew that.

  225. @Colin Wright
    @Sean

    Zionism.

    Replies: @Sean

    Of course the influence of international Jewry supporting Zionism was an important factor in the support for the foundation of Israel after WW1, but the Balfour declaration was in aid of Brritain winning the war. Post WW1 and even more so post WW2 there was an enduring strategic imperative of keeping control of Arab oil. There could be a greatly increased importance of Saudi Arabia if CO2 fracking becomes a thing.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Sean

    'Of course the influence of international Jewry supporting Zionism was an important factor in the support for the foundation of Israel after WW1, but the Balfour declaration was in aid of Brritain winning the war...'

    You are aware that the victorious powers at Versailles only agreed to support 'a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine' after Chaim Weizmann assured all and sundry that under no circumstances would this be construed to mean support for an independent Jewish state?

    Zionism has a long and ancient history of lies, each lie building upon the lies that preceded it.

  226. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    You’re right. I don’t think they walked down random streets. They walked down streets that were safe.

    Or the hired workers sat at home and made up results.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    THAT’S CONSPIRACY THEORY! YOU’RE DOUBTING DEMOCRACY! WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT UNMONITORED UNCHECKED LOW LEVEL BUREAUCRATS IN INFAMOUSLY CORRUPT CITIES WERE NOT NAKEDLY HONEST AT ALL TIMES? AND, PER TRADITION, GAKKRZ RUSSKIYI, TOTES ADORBS.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @J.Ross

    They were doctors, not "low-level bureaucrats."

  227. @AceDeuce
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Here's the testimony of one of the draggers of the nagger: (Funny, I remember it from back then but it's been memory holed. Wonder why?

    https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1999/09/18/defendant-says-friend-killed-dragging-victim/


    Lawrence Russell Brewer took the stand in his own defense Friday and blamed the brutal dragging death of a black man on a co-defendant. Sobbing, the former leader of a racist prison gang told the jury: "I didn't mean to cause his death."

    It was the first testimony by one of the three men charged with killing James Byrd Jr.

    Brewer admitted he was in the pickup truck with co-defendants Shawn Berry and John William King when Byrd was dragged to his death in June 1998. But he said it was Berry who slashed Byrd's throat, then chained him to the back of the truck and dragged him for three miles along a bumpy country road, shredding and dismembering his body.

    (SNIP)

    As the defense began its case Friday, Brewer, 32, testified that Byrd was riding with the three defendants in the pickup when Berry stopped to take some steroids. King lit a cigarette, he said, and Byrd walked around the truck and said, "Let me smoke with you white boys."

    Next, Brewer said, he heard some glass break and saw King and Byrd fighting.

    "I don't know what to do," Brewer testified. "When I go around the corner of the truck, I tried to kick Byrd in his side."

    Brewer said he tried to break it up. "That's when I heard snapping of Shawn's knife. He popped it open . . . Shawn came around and I guess cut his (Byrd's) throat.
     

    Funny, the nigro, who was drunk and, according to his family, an aggressive drunk, goes up to three White ex-cons, tough guys who hated nigros, and called them "White boys".

    If a drunk White Man called three nigbo the "N" word, I wonder if anyone would care if he was killed.

    Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Very interesting, thanks for the info. Seems like Byrd badly misjudged how dangerous these “white boys” were and paid dearly for disrespecting them by using that racial epithet. The steroids and the shame of being repeatedly raped in prison by Blacks might also have contributed to their violent reaction.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  228. @Dube
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    MacArthur never spent a day in Korea and directed the war entirely from Tokyo.

    He watched closely the landing at Inchon.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdpaa-mil.sites.crmforce.mil%2FdpaaFamWebInCampaignInchon&psig=AOvVaw0Ra9KmtVle5MgYjJScq55L&ust=1631561803822000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJDvzMCX-vICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Right, my source for that is here

    A popular criticism of MacArthur was that he never spent a night in Korea, and directed the war from the safety of Tokyo.[267]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Fighting_around_the_38th_Parallel_(January%E2%80%93June_1951)

    But my point is rather that Japs were the biggest winner of the Korean War — the Americans were flying supplies into Japan, and from an economic standpoint it didn’t make sense for the cargo planes to come back empty. That’s how Japan Inc. got their first post-War jump start. All the way until Michael Crichton wrote Rising Sun.

    To this day US-Japan Alliance is a cornerstone of American foreign policy. To the point that they are considered to become the “Sixth Eye”, not even the Frogs and Jerrys are privy to
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Japan_Alliance
    https://thediplomat.com/2021/04/integrating-japan-into-an-expanded-five-eyes-alliance/

    This is part of the reason why the likes of Mineta can get away with shameless narrative.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    To this day US-Japan Alliance is a cornerstone of American foreign policy. To the point that they are considered to become the “Sixth Eye”, not even the Frogs and Jerrys are privy to.
     
    Five Eyes: A 75-year-old intelligence alliance between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. So, Brits and ex-Brits. And no Krauts, Frogs, or Japs, unless you really think the Turks are really ever getting into the EU.

    You can file the "popular criticism of MacArthur" alongside those of Trump. Wikipedia!

    The photo doesn't lie. Fraudulent photo tech wasn't quite Photoshop then.

  229. @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Why would I be more upset about the PM than Hirohito not being hung? Nah, I'm, not outraged. Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan's attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch, but by the time Obama attacked him is should have been water under the bridge. The Game of Nations isn't patty-cake, history is red of tooth and claw on all sides, and certain kinds of international "law" are bunkum. And the original post whining about dead Arabs was puerile.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Hirohito not being hung? Preservation of the Emperor and kokutai 国体 national polity was part of the deal.

    Otherwise Downfall would have taken place and with no guarantee of ending the war in 1945 (even after the 2 bombs and Soviet entry)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

    Their post-War treatment was significantly more lenient than for Germans (with the support of Chiang Kai-Shek). No partition, no de-nazification, no violent repatriation of civilians.

    You might not care about Yasukuni Shrine but that is a significant issue in CJK relations. But as my handle implies I respect the Japs for being based, since the opposite leads to Merkel’s Boner which leads to disaster for everyone.

    Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan’s attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch

    There’s a little more to this

    Crypto AG had already earlier been accused of rigging its machines in collusion with intelligence agencies such as NSA, GCHQ, and the German Federal Intelligence Service (BND), enabling the agencies to read the encrypted traffic produced by the machines.[4][16] Suspicions of this collusion were aroused in 1986 following US president Ronald Reagan’s announcement on national television that, through interception of diplomatic communications between Tripoli and the Libyan embassy in East Berlin, he had irrefutable evidence that Muammar Gaddafi of Libya was behind the West Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986. President Reagan then ordered the bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi in retaliation. There is no conclusive evidence that there was an intercepted Libyan message.[citation needed]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG#Compromised_machines

    • Replies: @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Not seeing that there's anything in the Wikipedia quote that I need to rebut. These are the same sort of people who still insist that there is "no conclusive evidence" that Trump didn't collude with the Russians.

    As to Hirohito, I suggest that publically naming him and his as a target and following up might have concentrated the minds of Emperor-supporters around tossing him and replacing him with some blameless juvenile in an attempt to appease the round eyes. He may not have cared how many of his minions were killed, but enthusiasm for dying for the Emperor was not all that it's been cracked up to be. See the comments somewhere on this thread (iirc) about Arabs escaping the social pressure to retaliate by blaming the US Air Force rather than ground troops for dead relatives. Japs are humans, too, and things could maybe have been wrapped up before the "deal" and the Bombs with the right incentives.

  230. @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    THAT'S CONSPIRACY THEORY! YOU'RE DOUBTING DEMOCRACY! WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT UNMONITORED UNCHECKED LOW LEVEL BUREAUCRATS IN INFAMOUSLY CORRUPT CITIES WERE NOT NAKEDLY HONEST AT ALL TIMES? AND, PER TRADITION, GAKKRZ RUSSKIYI, TOTES ADORBS.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    They were doctors, not “low-level bureaucrats.”

  231. @Colin Wright
    @Anonymous

    'The State of Israel was quite poor, underpopulated and weak for its first 20 years or so and controlling Arab nationalism was far beyond its powers. France and the UK and the USA could not control Arab nationalism. A poor country of two million Jews wasn’t going to do it.'

    Sean's a Zionist. It's foolish to assume he's arguing in good faith.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Sean’s a Zionist. It’s foolish to assume he’s arguing in good faith.

    You’re a moron, which is why you think that’s a counterargument.

    • Troll: Colin Wright
  232. @gandydancer
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In the meantime they aborted a planned invasion of USSR, Kantokuen
     
    You've got cause and effect backasswards. There was zero chance of Japan invading the USSR. They'd been bloodied twice already, and had quite enough of the Bear. Anyway, don't mistake the existence of staff busywork for proof of intent. We still had a Color Plan to sortie the US Fleet to the Philippines, but everyone knew it was a non-starter in '41. (Except Churchill., who somehow thought that a force of a couple BB/BC was something other than contemptible.)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    That may be. But the Soviets increased manpower on the Far East from June to December 1941, from 650,000 to 1,200,000 (yes, during Barbarossa)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen#Soviet_response

    And bear in mind that Unit 731 was based in Northern Manchuria

  233. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @gandydancer


    Out here in the real world it’s lunacy to expect anyone to catch allusions ...
     
    Well sure, if you’re an angry maroon, it would be hard for you to catch allusions. Look, you're stupid, that's not a crime in itself, but it's silly to get mad at me just because you're an autistic literalist:

    Nor have you yet explained why anyone would think that when you wrote

    Interesting point from Yglesias about American underreaction to COVID.
     
    that you didn’t mean it.
     

    Replies: @gandydancer

    If you think that that is an “allusion” then you are a delusional cretin. But we already knew that.

  234. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Dube

    Right, my source for that is here


    A popular criticism of MacArthur was that he never spent a night in Korea, and directed the war from the safety of Tokyo.[267]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Fighting_around_the_38th_Parallel_(January%E2%80%93June_1951)

    But my point is rather that Japs were the biggest winner of the Korean War — the Americans were flying supplies into Japan, and from an economic standpoint it didn't make sense for the cargo planes to come back empty. That's how Japan Inc. got their first post-War jump start. All the way until Michael Crichton wrote Rising Sun.

    To this day US-Japan Alliance is a cornerstone of American foreign policy. To the point that they are considered to become the "Sixth Eye", not even the Frogs and Jerrys are privy to
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Japan_Alliance
    https://thediplomat.com/2021/04/integrating-japan-into-an-expanded-five-eyes-alliance/

    This is part of the reason why the likes of Mineta can get away with shameless narrative.

    Replies: @gandydancer

    To this day US-Japan Alliance is a cornerstone of American foreign policy. To the point that they are considered to become the “Sixth Eye”, not even the Frogs and Jerrys are privy to.

    Five Eyes: A 75-year-old intelligence alliance between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. So, Brits and ex-Brits. And no Krauts, Frogs, or Japs, unless you really think the Turks are really ever getting into the EU.

    You can file the “popular criticism of MacArthur” alongside those of Trump. Wikipedia!

    The photo doesn’t lie. Fraudulent photo tech wasn’t quite Photoshop then.

  235. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @gandydancer

    Hirohito not being hung? Preservation of the Emperor and kokutai 国体 national polity was part of the deal.

    Otherwise Downfall would have taken place and with no guarantee of ending the war in 1945 (even after the 2 bombs and Soviet entry)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

    Their post-War treatment was significantly more lenient than for Germans (with the support of Chiang Kai-Shek). No partition, no de-nazification, no violent repatriation of civilians.

    You might not care about Yasukuni Shrine but that is a significant issue in CJK relations. But as my handle implies I respect the Japs for being based, since the opposite leads to Merkel's Boner which leads to disaster for everyone.

    Khaddafi blew up the nightclub and airliner, and Reagan’s attack on him was fully justified no matter the by-catch

    There's a little more to this


    Crypto AG had already earlier been accused of rigging its machines in collusion with intelligence agencies such as NSA, GCHQ, and the German Federal Intelligence Service (BND), enabling the agencies to read the encrypted traffic produced by the machines.[4][16] Suspicions of this collusion were aroused in 1986 following US president Ronald Reagan's announcement on national television that, through interception of diplomatic communications between Tripoli and the Libyan embassy in East Berlin, he had irrefutable evidence that Muammar Gaddafi of Libya was behind the West Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986. President Reagan then ordered the bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi in retaliation. There is no conclusive evidence that there was an intercepted Libyan message.[citation needed]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG#Compromised_machines

    Replies: @gandydancer

    Not seeing that there’s anything in the Wikipedia quote that I need to rebut. These are the same sort of people who still insist that there is “no conclusive evidence” that Trump didn’t collude with the Russians.

    As to Hirohito, I suggest that publically naming him and his as a target and following up might have concentrated the minds of Emperor-supporters around tossing him and replacing him with some blameless juvenile in an attempt to appease the round eyes. He may not have cared how many of his minions were killed, but enthusiasm for dying for the Emperor was not all that it’s been cracked up to be. See the comments somewhere on this thread (iirc) about Arabs escaping the social pressure to retaliate by blaming the US Air Force rather than ground troops for dead relatives. Japs are humans, too, and things could maybe have been wrapped up before the “deal” and the Bombs with the right incentives.

  236. @Sean
    @Colin Wright

    Of course the influence of international Jewry supporting Zionism was an important factor in the support for the foundation of Israel after WW1, but the Balfour declaration was in aid of Brritain winning the war. Post WW1 and even more so post WW2 there was an enduring strategic imperative of keeping control of Arab oil. There could be a greatly increased importance of Saudi Arabia if CO2 fracking becomes a thing.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Of course the influence of international Jewry supporting Zionism was an important factor in the support for the foundation of Israel after WW1, but the Balfour declaration was in aid of Brritain winning the war…’

    You are aware that the victorious powers at Versailles only agreed to support ‘a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine’ after Chaim Weizmann assured all and sundry that under no circumstances would this be construed to mean support for an independent Jewish state?

    Zionism has a long and ancient history of lies, each lie building upon the lies that preceded it.

  237. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Strange to say, but a very damaging hole in American education is not sufficient STEM (though that's a yuge problem) but a lack of any sort of serious philosophical training. Nobody in our government has been taught the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of how to THINK. Forget about historiography, that's asking waaay too much.

    Exhibit A, Norman Mineta, whose reasoning is:

    1. My people (meaning the Japanese, not the Americans) were singled out in WW2,
    2. Arab Americans (who, historically speaking, got to America last Tuesday and have contributed nothing to the country, nor have they made any meaningful sacrifices or contributions) are being singled out,
    therefore
    3. It is the Greatest Evil in the World to single people out, except for White People.

    How many philosophical errors and fallacies can you find in this line of thought? (HINT: It's in the double digits). It's all emotionalism, tribalism, and sentimental babbling.

    Not a serious country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dieter Kief, @Bardon Kaldian, @Deadite, @Deadite, @Sick of Orcs

    No government school is going to teach its citizens how to think or be self-sufficient.

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