The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
The Class War Is Over: American Workers Lost
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the New York Times news section:

Economic Antidote for a Shrinking America: Immigrants

Eight in 10 workers at Yardbird Southern Table and Bar in Miami were born abroad. “The idea that legal immigrants are taking jobs away from residents of the U.S. is just not reality,” the head of its parent company said.

By Patricia Cohen, Aug. 22, 2019

MIAMI — After finishing a particularly satisfying dinner at a Coral Gables restaurant with his wife, Pedro Martinez quietly slipped around to the back alley where the kitchen is.

Presumably not the Hall of Fame pitching Pedro Martinez.

“Whatever you’re making, I’ll give you a raise,” Mr. Martinez whispered when the back door swung open. An executive at 50 Eggs, a restaurant group based in Miami, he is always ready with a stack of business cards for occasions like this.

And rising wages for the unskilled is a Bad Thing because … well, just think of the poor Economy.

More immigrants have streamed into South Florida than to most American cities, and for decades, employers have relied on them to wash dishes, put up drywall and care for grandmothers. Still, there are not enough to fill Miami’s relentless boomtown demand for workers.

As unemployment rates nationwide have sunk to record lows, filching workers — from kitchens and construction sites, warehouses and Walmarts, truck cabs and nursing homes — has become routine. In cities like Miami that are magnets for immigrants, newcomers have filled some job openings, but employers across several industries and states insist that many more are needed for their businesses to function, let alone grow.

The economic impact is just one facet of an immigration debate that vibrates with political and moral import, challenging ideas about America’s identity and culture. But it is also one that can be examined more dispassionately by looking at the numbers.

And the numbers, most economists say, indicate that there is plenty of room. Immigrants make the country richer, they argue.

Ask not what the Economy can do for you, ask what you can do for our fragile, endangered Economy.

“Without immigration, we shrink as a nation,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office who has advised Republican presidential candidates and now leads the conservative American Action Forum.

That’s because growth is driven by two ingredients: the size of the work force and how efficiently those workers produce things.

Sailer’s Law of Inequality Journalism: News stories in the prestige press about the causes of inequality and/or stagnating wages will not include the text string “migra,” as in “immigration” or “migrants.”

Sailer’s Law of Immigration Journalism: Articles about immigration’s effect on The Economy will not include the text string “per capita.”

 
Hide 296 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. snorlax says:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congress/democratic-lawmaker-illegal-immigrants-needed-to-mow-our-beautiful-lawns

    Democratic Rep. Tom Malinowski, who is running for a second term in New Jersey’s swing 7th District, told constituents this week that illegal immigrants are needed to mow “our beautiful lawns” and perform menial jobs rejected by tech-focused teenagers.

  2. Daniel H says:

    The endless race to the bottom. I’m sure Patricia Cohen doesn’t imagine herself there.

    Pedro Martinez. “Whatever you’re making, I’ll give you a raise,”

    40 year old kitchen worker: “I earn $9.50 per hour…”

    Pedro Martinez. “OK, I will offer you $9.75….I’m a man of my word…”

    Such an exchange would stir George Will’s neocon heart.

    • LOL: bomag, TWS
  3. Henry8 says:

    The United states has a feudal economy.

    All of the money made here comes from rents, in one form or another.

    Because of this, the only way to grow the economy is by increasing the number of renters in it. The more serfs you have working the land(or renting the apartments, or purchasing insurance on installments, or creating data for zuckerburg et al to sell, etc) the larger the GDP.

    The number of “landlords” (or big data, or big insurance, etc) can stay the same, since economies of scale, barriers to entry, etc remain high. Some of these barriers are legal, but many are intellectual, ie based on having a certain minimal intellegence.

    This is the source of inequality in the U.S. It is endemic, chronic, and perpetual. Primarily because iq cannot be distributed.

    The only real question is, where will you and your children end up? The manor house or the stable?

  4. Without immigration, we shrink as a nation,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office ….

    Depending on how you define ‘nation.’ By Holtz-Eakin’s standard, we can fix this in short order by importing more Somalis, Sub-Saharan Africans, and Indians (dot, not feather).

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  5. guest says:

    Economists say the numbers say there’s room. Are economists geographers now? Or demographers? Which “room” metaphor are we using? Job room? Who talks like that?

    Imagine for the sake of argument 7 billion people fit into the U.S. and the Economy at least supports them without mass starvation. Would it still be America?

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @Lurker
  6. Economic Antidote for a Shrinking America: Buying Overseas’ Territories

    • LOL: HammerJack
  7. AMW says:

    Due to composition effects, immigration can increase the incomes of both native workers and the immigrants themselves while lowering income per capita in the US.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @obwandiyag
  8. peterike says:

    Sailer’s Law of Immigration Journalism: Articles about immigration’s effect on The Economy will not include the text string “per capita.”

    They also don’t understand the concept of cause and effect.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    , @getaclue
  9. Kronos says:

    Minimum wage today, minimum wage tomorrow, and minimum wage FOREVER!

    Keep in mind, these two have led the Democratic Party for the last 40+ years.

  10. Whiskey says: • Website

    Yes we lost bigly.

    That is because post Korean War we live in a defacto hereditary aristocracy.

    Women of course love aristocracy and do very well in them. During the medieval and early modern era it was almost a certainty that republics repressed female freedom particularly economically in guilds and such and aristocracy liberated them.

    Women win with hereditary rule as they can just trade up to their true sex market value . Men win with more equal rule as they band together to restrict sex market freedom. Few men win in a free sex market and mist women win in such a market.

    The increased freedom and consumer market power of women explains the fall of the West. No further input is need ed

  11. 216 says: • Website

    It sucks, the nationalist Right has basically been routed here.

    We can’t solve immigration without political chemotherapy: a depression.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @J.Ross
  12. perhaps more accurate:

    the class war is over, and the working class lost.

    america was the last place on earth where the working class could avoid getting crushed, and accumulate some wealth, and even vote and have their votes matter once in a while.

    no more. latin america style serfdom from now on.

  13. L Woods says:

    how efficiently those workers produce things.

    Uhh…you think the quality of the human capital we’re importing might have something to do with that figure?

  14. black sea says:

    In other words, low-wage workers in Miami are experiencing increases in income and employment opportunities courtesy of the labor market, and this is a bad thing? Whatever happened to the “Fight for $15”?

    The Grey Lady can’t seem to make up her mind.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
  15. @The Alarmist

    I had to fight every step of the way to have a family. Low wages and no capital for new engineering was the basic reason.

    This included, housing, schools, social workers looking for trouble, and peer groups misinforming the kids. They’ve grown up, some have had children, all seem to have stable marriages, but that’s because their parents fought tooth and nail for them. The US wasn’t that way in the 1950s; having children was supported. The US became that way as the result of considerable effort by the Federal government, the media, and “activist” groups.

    If “they” didn’t want a “shrinking population”, “they” wouldn’t harass parents and children.

    Counterinsurency

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
  16. L Woods says:
    @216

    Did the last recession solve it?

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  17. Anonymous[237] • Disclaimer says:

    If elites want new workers, why can’t workers get new elites?

    It seems it’s easier for elites to find people who will work for less than for the people to find elites who will pay more.

  18. Some nations have blood and soil.
    We get The Economy!

  19. @Henry's Cat

    Trump wants to buy Greenland so Trump Properties can sell Greenland real estate to wealthy Chinese and Hindus….it ain’t for the Native Born White American Working Class….

    • Replies: @By-tor
    , @Jim Don Bob
  20. JoeMac says:

    Here is prominent immigration economist Giovanni Perri…
    https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/impact-immigration-wages-unskilled-workers

    Current research already shows very little local wage effects. Card (2001, 2009) found that immigration may change the relative supply of dropouts to high school graduates across metro areas but that such a shift does not seem to have a significant effect on their relative wages. Lewis (2011) explains the lack of a relative wage effects at the local level by showing that immigration may increase the intensity of dropout workers and thus induce the choice of dropout-efficient production techniques that demand more dropout workers that then offsets the increased supply of such workers. Peri (2012) further shows that firms in states with many immigrants choose techniques more efficient in the use of noncollege workers that offsets the anticipated negative wage impacts with productivity gains. In other words, firms change their production techniques to take account of immigrant labor that can then attenuate immigration’s potential negative impact on wages.

    Rather than firms changing in response to immigrants, native workers could also change their behavior by specializing in other specific tasks that are different than those undertaken by immigrants. Recent research looks at the skills distribution of workers across productive tasks rather than by education group (Autor 2015). Peri and Sparber (2009) show that immigrants increased the relative supply of manual tasks in some U.S. states among noncollege-educated workers but that native decisions to shift to nonmanual tasks over time attenuated the potentially negative wage effects. This may also explain the imperfect substitution between immigrants and natives who are both noncollege workers (Ottaviano and Peri 2012).

    Immigrants do not cause much of a local negative wage effect. Empirical studies do not find that local immigrant inflows depress wages of noncollege- or college-educated workers by location. Basso and Peri (2016) look at all 722 continental U.S. commuting zones that are local labor markets. They show a correlation between changes in immigrants as a share of the workforce and the percentage change of wages for noncollege- and college-educated workers for the 1970 to 2010 period. The correlation is positive and significant in both cases, which demonstrates that larger inflows of immigrants are somewhat associated with higher wages. The positive association is stronger for college-educated workers and is small, but positive, for noncollege workers. Further statistical analysis reveals an insignificant correlation of immigration.

    Steve, there is a large academic literature studying the effect of low wage/skilled immigration on low wage/skilled Americans, and it is not consistent with your views. Yet I never see you seriously deal with it.

    Also, brows Noah Smith’s twitter feed on this for many top notch papers and discussion consistently showing this effect. I’d like to see a conversation between the two of you on immigration.

    However, a more interesting analysis from Giovanni would be the distributional impact of low skilled labor on American workers. How much do the benefits accrue to the poor v. working classes v. middle classes v. upper classes, etc.? I suspect the truth is that the effect of immigration on living standards of the bottom is null or marginal, but very large for those further at the top. The result is an immigration policy that does little or nothing for those at the bottom but creates a servant class for those at the top.

    Also, what does the literature say on the effects of immigration on housing prices and residential density for those on the bottom? Those at the top wall themselves off through segregation and zoning restrictions, but what of those at the bottom? And what of school funding? And what other similar “class” based effects might occur which we might research in the literature that is separate from the labor market.

  21. notsaying says:

    I looked up “American action forum libertarian” and it looks like this is a Koch Brothers-funded group. The Koch Brothers are for open borders and cheap labor, a double-whammy against American workers.

    It is interesting to see that the New York Times is referencing a Koch Brothers-related organization that they would normally disagree with in this immigration article.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  22. J.Ross says:
    @216

    Routed? What did the chamber of commerce Republicans win? Trump enjoyed a far less brutal midterm judgment than almost any of his recent predecessors, and the Republicans who did get removed were largely anti-Trump. National consciousness is increasing every day, aided by bone-headed echo chamber propaganda like this article (and like Democrats destroying themselves over climate change).
    And if all else fails we can always directly illustrate to “economists” the downsides of living in the mestizosphere.

    • Replies: @216
  23. @Kronos

    Before them, we were ruled by these … you tell me which is worse.

    BTW, one reason they understate actual inflation is so you feel like you are getting ahead. You should google what 1967 minimum wage is in today’s dollars ($1.40 then is $10.29 now).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Kronos
    , @Bubba
    , @Hhsiii
  24. “The idea that legal immigrants are taking jobs away from residents of the U.S. is just not reality,” the head of its parent company said.

    And what motivation would the CEO of a company employing unskilled workers possibly have to lie about the need for more unskilled workers?

    “the idea that fossil fuels companies contribute to pollution is just not reality” the CEO of Exxon Mobil said.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  25. Dr. X says:

    There aren’t enought native-born white people to take jobs because native born white women, under the influence of Jewish feminists, have chosen to prevent pregnancy or to abort healthy pregnancies so that they can be lawyers and astronauts and cops, thus killing off tens of thousands of years of evolutionary progress that produced the white race.

    When they’re 9o years old and childless, the brown immigrants paid minimum wage to care for them by in nursing homes will let them lay in their own feces and steal their meds. Just rewards…

  26. Henry8 says:

    “That’s because growth is driven by two ingredients: the size of the work force and how efficiently those workers produce things.”

    That’s not correct.

    “Economic growth” is defined by the production function, which is the efficiency of how a given quantity of labor AND a given quantity of capital interact.

    The problem with the united states (and humanity as whole) is that while, in the modern era, capital is highly fungible, labor is not.

    Specifically, “quality” labor is always in short supply. There will always be a ton of busboys, fry cooks, and the like, but much fewer people who can actually run the place.

    What this means is that, when capital is mobile, it always tends to aggregate to those who can most use it. This is because the people who can run things, in the long run, demand to own what they are making possible to exist. And the people who can’t run things end up just being happy to be there, doing whatever they are told, because there are plenty more where they came from.

    This is why the U.S. has a feudal style economy. Most american labor is so fungible that is essentially serfdom. This is also why so many area in america (ie california) have feudal style governments; zuckerberg et al are using them to pay modern day “feudal dues” (welfare, medical care, etc) to his “subjects”. In this case though, instead of being land ownership based, it is IQ based, an economic caste system not based on family legacy but intellegence.

    That’s why the elites support immigration…1,000,000 additional low iq guatamalans in the L.A. basin are no more a threat to Mark zuckerberg than 1,000,000 donkeys. And he can always tell his chief donkey, gavin newsome, to handle them.

  27. notsaying says:

    Here’s some interesting facts from a NumbersUSA email I just received today. There’s more disagreement about our immigration policies — and the push from the Democratic Party, special interest groups and cheap labor Republicans for even more immigrants — than you might think:

    Immigration is the #1 issue in America. The Gallup Poll found that more Americans list immigration as their top issue than any other. Immigration is more important to a majority of Americans than issues such as health care, guns, and foreign policy.

    NOBODY on any side of this issue is satisfied with our current immigration system. Both the Harvard/Harris poll and Pulse Opinion found that an absolute majority of voters want to cut immigration by half or more!

    Surprising to some, perhaps, is Harvard’s finding that a majority of Republicans AND of Democrats want 50% cuts or more. Even more surprising, more than a third of Democrats want to cut legal immigration by 75% or more. [emphasis added]

    There’s been a lot in the news about immigration lately. Whatever I have seen about immigration restriction has been negative, as it usually is. Some of it was connected with recent shootings, which of course are terrible in themselves and also terrible because they give immigration restrictionist views look bad.

    All of which is to say, despite Trump’s promises I haven’t felt hopeful about getting our immigration numbers down. But the studies mentioned in the NumbersUSA email give me new hope. It is amazing to see that over one-third of Democrats want to cut legal immigration 75% or more. I hope future immigration studies back these studies up. I wish I could provide links to the studies but there weren’t any in the email.

    I wonder what the Democratic Party thinks about all their people who want to cut legal immigration by over 75%?

  28. @black sea

    I’m also struck by how periodic “Wal-Mart has workers on public assistance which is terrible” articles sit beside “we need more immigrants to do menial jobs and it shouldn’t matter if they’re on public assistance, racist” articles. A half-decent politician should be able to run rings around traditional democrat economic talking points.

    • Replies: @Corn
  29. 216 says: • Website
    @J.Ross

    Public sympathy for immigration is the highest ever recorded under Gallup.

    Some of the most effective right-wing accounts are deplatformed.

    The sole GOP achivement is a corporate tax cut.

  30. Andrew M says:

    Sailer’s Law of Population Growth Journalism: articles about the benefits of population growth always state that the population can only grow through immigration. Any talk of pro-natal policy is taboo.

  31. Paul says:

    The class war is over, and the rich have run off with the loot.

  32. Henry8 says:
    @notsaying

    “I wonder what the Democratic Party thinks about all their people who want to cut legal immigration by over 75%?”

    A lot of them are blacks and more settled latinos, who are being de/re gentrified by the newcomers. Both newer latino immmigrants from different cultures, but also asians.

    The democratic party thinks that the best strategy to deal with this is distracting them by claiming trump is a racist. This is because “trump is a putin puppet” was mostly a white/jewish thing, and it lumps all non white people from all countries into the same group as any nonwhite people in the U.S. ie trumps dislike of immigration is really a dislike of you.

  33. A serious argument could be made that, beyond a certain point, economic growth is actually a bad thing. Full stop.

    Arguably the advantage that the Eastern European countries have at the moment is simply that they’re poorer. So fewer immigrants want to move there, and the native people have less capacity to spoil their landscapes with malls and gorge themselves on junk food. Despite all the nastiness and dysfunction of Soviet Communism, it looks like capitalism will turn out to be even more destructive in the long term.

    Someone should make a meme for this:

    Broke: supporting socialism because it works

    Woke: opposing socialism because it doesn’t work

    Bespoke: supporting socialism because it doesn’t work

  34. @peterike

    Or supply and demand. And, needless to say, we must never, ever use the term “per capita” in any article mentioning crime or race. That would be unthinkable in the Current Year.

  35. @Bigdicknick

    Right? It’s amazing how people are cherry-picked for expert testimony so long as they say what the NYT wants us to hear.

  36. @notsaying

    Unfortunately, it’s almost always been the case that majorities have opposed increased immigration. Hasn’t mattered much.

  37. Presumably not the Hall of Fame pitching Pedro Martinez.

    Or any of the 486 other Pedros Martinez in the US:

    http://howmanyofme.com/people/Pedro_Martinez/

    This site may be less than perfectly accurate, though. It estimates that there is only one Sanjay Gupta in the country. But the one on CNN says there are 400.

    Also,

    There are 11 people in the U.S. named Steven Sailer.

  38. notsaying says:

    More from the New York Times article —

    I am completely uninterested in having the middle class of this country turn over their personal chores to a new group of servants working for a minimum wage or close to it:

    And many tasks that most people previously did themselves — mowing lawns, polishing nails, picking up takeout, driving — are now contracted out because there is labor to do them.

    “The middle class is afforded some luxuries that only the affluent could afford in the past because of immigration,” said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute’s office at New York University School of Law. “If people are prepared to adjust their needs, we don’t need as many immigrants.”

    I’m also uninterested in providing employers with more cheap labor. Americans will do almost any job outside of agriculture. For agriculture-related jobs, we do need to import workers. So I say get those wages up and hire Americans:

    “In every market that we’re in, we’re dealing with staffing shortages,” said Pilar Carvajal, the founder and chief executive of Innovation Senior Management, which manages seven assisted-living centers in Florida. Entry-level workers in the area make from $10 to $12 an hour — the same as a dishwasher and slightly more than a farmworker.

    She has turned away business, declining to manage properties in Fort Myers. “It’s a staffing void,” she confided during a visit to a memory care center in Broward County. Employment agencies won’t even return phone calls.

    “Thank God we have immigrants coming in,” she said. “We’re hiring them as fast as they come.”

    What are the cheap labor employers going to do when minimum wage rises substantially above $7.25 an hour, which I think will happen. What if it gets to be $12-$15 an hour, then what will they do? For that matter, what will Americans do? There will be a lot more rewards for employers to use illegal workers who will take less than a much-improved US minimum wage.

  39. Declane says:

    Apparently asking such questions as “what happens to all those immigrants in Florida once the final baby boomer gasps his last breath at the casino?” is Simply Not Done.

  40. Anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:

  41. @The Alarmist

    Hampden-Sydney, Wabash, and Morehouse are the last remaining all-male four-year schools in the US. They have been for decades, though, so they seem quite willing to hold on.

    How do women view these schools?

    • Replies: @Drew
    , @sayless
  42. Daniel H says:
    @notsaying

    I’m also uninterested in providing employers with more cheap labor. Americans will do almost any job outside of agriculture. For agriculture-related jobs, we do need to import workers.

    Bullshit. Raise the wages. Field work is hard. Very hard, but plenty of men (and women) would do the work for $25.00 per hour.

    Raise the damn wages.

  43. @notsaying

    I’m also uninterested in providing employers with more cheap labor. Americans will do almost any job outside of agriculture. For agriculture-related jobs, we do need to import workers.

    Why this particular consession?

    Labor itself is a crop, one which farmers (and their wives) have never had a problem growing their own in the past.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @216
  44. @notsaying

    Muzaffar Chishti…Pilar Carvajal

    I very much resent being lectured by foreigners.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  45. Work life is actually pretty fantastic for many Americans including myself. I work in IT, I earn enough to be considered the “professional class”. My job has lots of downsides but comparing myself to a career food service worker or restaurant manager, I have an amazing work life, and I know it, and so do many other Americans. This OP is excessively pessimistic.

    Other American workers, not in the professional class like myself, do have hard unfortunate lives deserving of sympathy. But that clearly isn’t just immigration. The modern economy would cause problems for some regardless. Immigration causes some problems and contributes some benefits as well. I am skeptical of the economic arguments against immigration.

    My main objection to immigration is “identity” concerns which are suppressed and taboo. Normal humans have a need to feel that some piece of them and their legacy and identity is going to thrive and grow beyond their own lifespan. When people see their identity and “who they perceive that they are” growing and thriving they are happy, and when they see their identity and legacy dying or being undermined and destroyed, they are sad and depressed. Several Native American tribes experienced deep and lasting depression when they realized their identities were being undermined and destroyed. Academia and the University system is rooted in this idea of never-ending legacy and identities. In the political sphere, I see this dominant attitude of “asymmetrical multiculturalism”, where foreign identities grow and thrive, and the recent and soon to be former majority identities of the US and Europe fade away and die. Immigration is a key piece of this. I don’t believe that this is fair or reasonable.

    • Agree: Aft
  46. OFF TOPIC

    VDARE Trending On Twitter

    Immigration is the issue that put Trump in the White House

    Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration lowers wages, displaces US workers, increases income inequality, harms the environment and destroys cultural integrity.

  47. Daniel H says:
    @snorlax

    Republicans are gleeful that Democrats like Malinowski run interference for them. But then, there is no essential difference between the two parties. Just the sex issues.

    • Replies: @Prester John
  48. Hopscotch says:

    The “doing jobs we won’t do” myth is covered extensively on this site. But it is rarely discussed that the illusion of immigrant upward mobility is largely kept alive by a shit ton of consumer debt. I suspect this is why so many businesses are pro-immigrant, even when they do not directly rely on immigrant labor. While real wages have stayed stagnant, immigrants still buy lots and lots of stuff on credit. Easy consumer credit is probably a more potent allure, than a minimum wage job.

    This infographic is from 2010, but still illustrates the trend nicely.

  49. Anon7 says:
    @snorlax

    F*** that guy. My (depression era) dad got me started at age seven with the idea that I could make money with our creaky old push mower. Who needs some measly “allowance” (government handout) when you can make as much money as there is daylight?

    Eventually, I bought a yacht with my lawnmower money. Okay, it was a Sunfish, but still, it was beautiful. Also, girls like to go for boat rides.

    A lost era.

  50. Kronos says:
    @The Alarmist

    All seem pretty bad. In terms of “good ole boy” social networks Millennial social connections are the worst. Everyone is flat ass broke (in student debt bigly) and we can’t help each other out. Also, the diversity peeps are the best Judas snitches out there. They often snitch to the boss about gossip and stuff. But if you exclude them, you might be labeled racist.

    In many ways, diversity is meant to protect boomers who can’t afford to retire. Their diversity underlings are too incompetent to take over and thus not a threat. Thus they stay put.

    MeToo is partially a Gen X/Millennial strategy to get rid of the old wood on top. Like how Sailer pointed out, Harvey Weinstein types used to die from heart attacks by age 60+. But now, they can live for a LONG time. Sexual assault allegations can help make way for the younger people.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  51. @Reg Cæsar

    Or any of the 486 other Pedros Martinez in the US:

    http://howmanyofme.com/people/Pedro_Martinez/

    This site may be less than perfectly accurate, though. It estimates that there is only one Sanjay Gupta in the country. But the one on CNN says there are 400.

    Yeah, I think you can pretty much dismiss that site. There are more than 486 people named Pedro Martinez in my small town alone. (And 39 Sanjay Guptas.)

    But our lawns are beautiful. (And our motels fully staffed.)

    • Replies: @Lurker
  52. @William Badwhite

    The Wash Post has “Democracy Dies in Darkness” as its tagline (neglecting to add “We Supply the Darkness”) so I think the NYT should adopt:

    “Thank God we have immigrants coming in”

    It’s no accident that when the Times does run an article about the 1950s, when somehow the USA did just fine without 50 million immigrants, they always focus on something negative they can drum up, or just fabricate as usual.

  53. Anon7 says:

    Capitalism is the most powerful tool ever invented for the efficient utilization of resources. Unfortunately, you have to be careful what resources you make available to it.

    Capitalism in America has rewired itself to make efficient use of cheap legal and illegal immigrant labor and excessive outsourcing. It’s a real problem now: we need to starve the capitalist beast for a while, and force it to go back to using American labor.

    At the same time, legacy Americans need to rewire themselves and their children to reject the “sit on the couch and wait for a fair and equal government handout” (a recipe for depression if there ever was one) viewpoint and adopt the “make hay in the beautiful American sunshine” viewpoint.

    Life’s a’ wasting!!

  54. @Reg Cæsar

    I checked, there are 5 people in the U.S. with my name. That means the other four are responsible for any bad shit you might dredge up on Google.

  55. @notsaying

    We are completely ignored.

    And we are kept quiet for fear of being called racist xenophobic Trumpists.

    Surprised?

  56. 216 says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Fruit/Vegetable crops require large amounts of harvest labor, but not much else during the rest of the growing season.

    So latifundium have normally used migrant labor, or occasionally convict labor.

    H-2A visa is uncapped. So any farmer that whines about rotting crops is full of it. (But if you read this blog you already know that)

  57. @Daniel H

    Pedro Martinez. “Whatever you’re making, I’ll give you a raise,”

    40 year old kitchen worker: “I earn $9.50 per hour…”

    Pedro Martinez. “OK, I will offer you $9.75….I’m a man of my word…”

    Scarface is all you need. It explains everything.

    Old school Miami job interview.

  58. Anon[185] • Disclaimer says:

    I wish Democrats would recognize their current ideology has drifted very far away from the original pro-worker Democratic political philosophy, and what they actually are now are 19th-century Whigs. Whigs were pro-immigration because they were pro-business and they wanted all that cheap labor.

  59. @Reg Cæsar

    Or any of the 486 other Pedros Martinez in the US:

    There are probably 50,000 Pedro Martinez’s in Washington Heights alone.

  60. anon215 says:

    I was surprised to see the author’s last name is Cohen. You don’t see names like that very often in this sort of article. 🙂

    • LOL: Lurker
  61. @Clifford Brown

    Scarface is all you need. It explains everything.

    Does it explain Asians too? This one is Vietnamese/Korean, right? So hard to keep all the third-world people straight, but I suppose after the white people are gone, there will just be a Hebrew overclass with all the ‘little brown ones’ forever at each others’ throats.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7384845/Cal-State-Fullerton-stabbing-suspect-ARRESTED-three-day-manhunt.html

    Haven’t looked, but I’m presuming the NYT is blaming this one on a combination of 1619, white privilege, and not enough immigrants. J/K–the NYT doesn’t cover immigrant crime.

  62. Just a continuation of the 1619 project. Cheap labor is “who we are”.

  63. @snorlax

    mestizo indentured servants are a human right.

  64. Flip says:

    Welcome to Brazil 2.0. A lower class mixed race population ruled over by a hostile elite. Little rule of law, poor governmental finances, and (soon) a weak currency.

  65. @notsaying

    “Innovation Senior Management, which manages assisted-living centers in Florida. Workers make from $10-$12 an hour…”

    I look forward to the coming days when Baby Boomers will be rotting in the fields.

    • LOL: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  66. @AMW

    Due to composition effects, immigration can increase the incomes of both native workers and the immigrants themselves while lowering income per capita in the US.

    That’s true in theory, but it clearly is not what has happened.

    Most workers in the US are in competition with immigrants, and what we’ve seen is general wage stagnation–though mostly at the low end. Labor has lost about 10% of their share of the pie over the last generation to capital.

    The bottom line:
    — almost all of the gains from immigration have gone to immigrants themselves
    — those that have not have gone to capital–the owners of capital; and a bit to natives in better protected high-income occupations by way of cheaper services (nanny, maid, gardener, roofer, waiter, dishwasher, etc.)
    — the costs have been borne by American workers, via lower wages, higher taxes for less services and higher housing

    But the *really* big costs are the externalities:
    — much higher housing prices, especially for house in neighborhood with “good schools”
    — more congestion and crowding
    — direct loss of territory–including a lot of really prime special territory, like lots of parts of California
    — much higher prices for positional goods–house on the lake, house at the beach
    — more social contention/irritation
    and especially …
    — reduced social cohesion loss of community and national fellow feeling
    — reduced family formation–direct loss of children and descendants–from wage and housing price pressures
    — an overall dumber, less productive and prosperous, less law-abiding, less conscientious, more balkanized quasi-“nation” left to our descendants.

    Clearly a big win for Americans.

  67. @Kronos

    Oh my God I remember that book!

    • Replies: @Kronos
  68. @notsaying

    These polls–asking regular people what they think and publishing that–are anti-Semitic.

  69. After finishing a particularly satisfying dinner at a Coral Gables restaurant with his wife, Pedro Martinez quietly slipped around to the back alley where the kitchen is.

    Pedro Martinez = Rezoned armpit.

    Coral Gables =

    Global Acres
    Legal Cobras
    Cargo Labels

  70. @Clifford Brown

    Except you forgot the most important scene:

  71. I have read:

    The Bible (both versions)
    The Bhagavad Gita
    The Dhammapada
    The Koran
    The American Founding Documents (Declaration, Federalist Papers, Constitution)
    Paine’s “The Rights of Man”
    Marx’s “The Communist Manifesto”
    The “I Ching”
    Melville, Hugo, Conrad, Cervantes, Eliot, Shakespeare, etc.

    In all of these I have never seen discussed or valorized: GDP

    Gross (who cares what happens to you or you or you – what’s the total take for “us”, meaning me and a few friends?)

    Domestic(ated) – as in animals, like, you know, cows or sheep.

    Product(ion) – as in, show business – stay entertained; sleeeeeeep.

    These monsters are going to destroy us all.

  72. Kaz says:
    @notsaying

    Jeez imagine if Republicans ran on a platform that wasn’t informed by religious lunacy and worshipping rich people that hate them..

    They could have a chance!

  73. J.Ross says:
    @notsaying

    Have you seen Stefan Molyneux’s special series on SoCal (speaking of which, did I miss Steve reacting to it?), the first episode shows a black lady yelling at the Los Angeles City Council at LA’s properly Hollywoodish City Hall about how letting in new people is unfair to the people you already have.

  74. indocon says:

    Most of these articles look like repeat of the same storyline, simply change names, location, maybe origin of immigrants, and the industry employing them. What I look for is the opinion trend in the NYT comments, for this specific article I see about 40:60 split for our side, not bad but need north of 80:20 for NYT to notice. This specific common caught my eye:

    “@Joshua Krause Then the simple solution is to tax the rich and corporations to pay for those, rather than relying on the uncontrolled breeding of serfs.”

    By those the commenter means SS and Medicare. That I really think it’s a trade off that will get enough votes from both sides of voters….significant tax increase in both income and wealth ons per rich, coupled with significant immigration restriction. In today’s political climate as long as you are not in a heavily one party district, I can see this kind of a view get traction on both sides actually.

  75. OFF TOPIC

    Teen shot in home invasion on same day as MS ICE raid. Family believes it was targeted

    by Alissa Zhu, Mississippi Clarion Ledger Published 5:00 a.m. CT Aug. 16, 2019

    The night of Aug. 7, three men broke into a Canton home, believing the inhabitants were away.

    The family was home, including five children. They were held at gunpoint, WAPT-TV reported.

    While a 19-year-old defended his family, he was shot multiple times in the arm and abdomen.

    Brayan Geovani Fuentes-Agustin remains hospitalized. His mother, Sandra Agustin Matias, said he has an infection from the wound in his stomach and he has been suffering from high fevers.

    The teen is going to be in the hospital for six weeks, Attorney Ali said.

    The law firm has set up a GoFundMe page to raise money for the family, to help pay for medical bills as well as to help them move.

    The mother stated “had it not been for the raids the robbers would not have went to their home because they knew a lot of Hispanics were arrested that day and most likely their homes would be empty,” according to the GoFundMe page.

    “As immigration lawyers, we see this all the time. Individuals are scared — especially that are undocumented, or that have not completed the legalization process — to come forward,” she said.

    One man has been arrested for the shooting, Ali said, and two more suspects remain at large.

    According to Canton police Chief Otha Brown, 21-year-old Rondarius Blackmon was arrested the following day, WLBT-TV reported.

    🙂

  76. @Henry8

    But where’s Africa’s Norman Borlaug?

    The number of landlords may stay the same tomorrow, but in the next recession it will contract. Under the strain of dwindling resources without sufficient innovation supporting the survival of the tenants, it will contract further until it asphyxiates like an iron corset around the kwashiorkor-bloated stomachs of those same rentiers’ grandchildren.

    Our elites have the time preference of rabid dogs. They are derelict and need to be replaced if not dropped to the deck from the crow’s nest.

  77. @Daniel H

    Such an exchange would stir George Will’s neocon heart.

    Right before a honest American citizen drives a wooden stake through George Will’s vampire heart. George Will is a parasite, sucking the life out of the American Body Politic.

  78. Anonymous[334] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Soon to be a ‘Pantaleo effect’?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/nyregion/daniel-pantaleo-nypd-police-officers.html

    Choice excerpt:

    A few officers said they supported Mr. O’Neill’s decision. “I can’t be the only person who watched that video and read about the injuries to that man’s neck and was embarrassed that people in my profession were supporting a bad cop who did a bad job,” said one female sergeant in Manhattan.

    She added that the escalation of the Garner arrest that led to the chokehold is indicative of the longstanding macho culture in the department. “I promise you, Eric Garner would be alive today if they’d sent two women to arrest him,” she said.

    A friendly reminder of what Mr. Garner looked like:
    https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs.abcnews.com%2Fimages%2FUS%2Fgty_eric_garner_4_kb_141203_16x9_992.jpg&f=1

    https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fthesource.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F07%2FEV6FXHMLY7SJXQS5V5OC347PSE.jpg&f=1

    Garner, who was 6-foot-3 and weighed 350 pounds

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  79. istevefan says:

    That’s because growth is driven by two ingredients: the size of the work force and how efficiently those workers produce things.

    Exhibit one, how we harvest radishes in the USA:

    Exhibit two, how they harvest radishes in the Netherlands:

    PS. See how they lay paver roadways in the Netherlands:

    • Replies: @newrouter
    , @Moses
    , @black sea
  80. Bubba says:
    @The Alarmist

    Is that from National Lampoon?

    • Replies: @Flip
  81. Apparently, our betters at the NYT think we should care about the Rohingya:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/world/asia/rohingya-myanmar-repatriation.html

    This is literally the last situation on Earth that any real, Heritage American should care about.

    Don’t both with the comments, you’ll lose brain cells trying to process the poz.

  82. ATBOTL says:

    How Mississippi, where chicken is a multi-billion dollar business, repeatedly balked at getting tougher on illegal immigration

    https://www.djournal.com/mississippi-today/how-mississippi-where-chicken-is-a-multi-billion-dollar-business/article_8e4bc66b-bd00-5d71-a282-a60220cfb3e9.html

  83. Sad to say, but a number of your newer (i.e. appeared the last couple of years) comment guests will be totally on board with this article you linked.

    On the other hand, you are the best writer on the World Wide Web these days. You should be in Trump’s cabinet.

  84. newrouter says:
    @istevefan

    > remember the farmworkers like these Oxnard workers, who harvest the food that we eat. #WeFeedYou #Calor #Ovetime4FarmWorkers<

    Do you have the video of the Oxnard workers planting the radish seeds?

  85. 30 paragraphs in: “significantly higher wages might attract more native born (i.e. citizens) to the service jobs that many immigrants occupy…” but then some owner will make less money.

  86. Moses says:
    @istevefan

    You…you mean…the crops do not rot in the fields without Mexican labor in the Netherlands?

    Amazing. Next you will be telling me the Dutch wash their own dishes, mow their own lawns, roof their own homes.

    Crazy talk.

  87. @AnotherDad

    You left out the most important externality: The immigrants take political power from the natives.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  88. @Henry8

    Bull. If you own a share of a company you own a share of its profits. When my children were babies I put aside some money each year in their name. Their return has been about 9% compounded over 25 years. Do you think that Google (Alphabet) collects some of that rent? You can own it in America and get it for yourself or your children.

    It has been exactly as Vanguard founder Boogle predicted:

    Paraphrase – put some money away each year, do not look at it or its performance do not trade or time the market. 10 or 20 years later look and you will be stupefied by how it has grown to.

    NO, everyone has to spend every cent that they get the second they get it on toys and luxuries, and not participate in American capitalism. Then they complain that others get the benefit of economic growth.

  89. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t understand the “per capita” part. Can someone help me out? Immigration, economy, per capita?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  90. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/sports/football/football-safety-touch-flag-helmets.html

    Because of concussion risk, even in football-crazy Texas many high schools are starting to switch to 7-on-7 touch football. Problem solved, right?

    Uh … apparently it’s a slaughterhouse out there on the touch football field, and helmets are starting to be required.

    It’s not your father’s touch football any longer, apparently. In what way, specifically? Nearly all the players seem to be black, judging from the photos the New York Times used. Apparently if you get a bunch of black youths running around, snitches get stiches, or something like that.

    In general, how long does football have? White parents are opting out. Will there be an NBA-style black-gladiators-in-the-colosseum-entertaining-white-guys transformation, or will the insurance costs kill off even that?

  91. Axilon says:

    Next time you want to kill, pluck and gut chickens, let me know. I can get you a job. Just make sure you have your social security card handy. When the 700 or so employees in that Mississippi chicken plant were routed out (some may even have been legal), the plant shut down. Other such plants have closed for the same reason in other states, because people who go through America’s public schools sure aren’t going to apply for that shit. Now, when I was just out of high school I did shovel French fries in a processing plant in eastern Washington and load potatoes in 100+ degree heat into boxcars. I even had the chance to get a job choking chickens. Didn’t take it. Quickly went to college.
    Because we b0omers are on the downturn in age and health, we’re going to need caretakers. You know anyone over the age of 18 who’s gone to our public schools who want to take those jobs at minimum wage? It will be foreign workers, mostly legal because they WILL BE NEEDED, who will be taking care of your sorry flabby ass when you can’t control your own shit. Get used to it, Buster.

  92. Kronos says:
    @Henry8

    The infamous FIRE sector.

    Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate.

  93. Rember when overpopulation was a problem? Pepperidge farms remembers.

    THE ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION REPORT

    The Report of The Commission on Population Growth and the American Future
    [foreward by Richard Nixon]

    One of the most serious challenges to human destiny in the last third of this century will be the growth of the population. Whether man’s response to that challenge will be a cause for pride or for despair in the year 2000 will depend very much on what we do today.


    Chapter 13: Immigration

    The economic problems exacerbated by illegal aliens are manifold and affect the labor market and social services. It is often profitable for employers to hire illegal aliens for low wages and under poor working conditions; these workers will not risk discovery of their unlawful status by complaining or organizing. Thus, illegal aliens (who usually take unskilled or low-skilled positions) not only deprive citizens and permanent resident aliens of jobs, but also depress the wage scale and working conditions

    The Commission believes that it is imperative for this country to address itself, first, to the problems of its own disadvantaged and poor. The flow of immigrants should be closely regulated until this country can provide adequate social and economic opportunities for all its present members

    the Commission believes that an effectively implemented and flexible labor certification program is necessary to ensure that immigrants do not compete with residents for work

    The Commission recommends that Congress immediately consider the serious situation of illegal immigration and pass legislation which will impose civil and criminal sanctions on employers of illegal border-crossers or aliens in an immigration status in which employment is not authorized.

    Some Commissioners felt that the number of immigrants should be gradually decreased, about 10 percent a year for five years. This group was concerned with the inconsistency of planning for population stabilization for our country and at the same time accepting large numbers of immigrants each year.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  94. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    dont you dare tillman…. reeducation camps are brutal…if not defended yet

  95. Yet another example of, if they could do math, they wouldn’t be a reporter.

  96. @Henry8

    White Male, 69 and still able,
    Seeks employment on lawn or at table.
    I’m a straight Christian guy
    So I guess I shall die
    ‘Midst the dung in the stable of Babel.

  97. bomag says:
    @snorlax

    illegal immigrants are needed…

    “To save our lawns, we had to burn the country down.”

  98. @Anonymous

    A woman was in charge, right?

  99. “Economists” keep forgetting to tell us this important fact: Our GDP may have grown, but our GDP Per Capita has actually gone DOWN substantially from 2000.

    US GDP in 2000: $10.28 Trillion
    Population in 2000: 282 million
    GDP Per Capita in 2000: $36,450
    In today’s dollars: $62,054

    US GDP in 2018: $20.50 Trillion
    US population in 2018: 327 million
    GDP Per Capita in 2018: $54,541

    So on average, we are $7,500 poorer in 2018 than in 2000. And since all the gains have gone disproportionately to the top 1%, the average American is far worse off than that.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  100. @JoeMac

    Academic economists have been arguing over the 1980 Mariel Boatlift for 15 years without ever noticing what else was going on at the time in Miami, rendering their studies non-ceteris paribus: the most notorious Cocaine Boom in the history of the world.

    Also, brows Noah Smith’s twitter feed on this for many top notch papers and discussion consistently showing this effect. I’d like to see a conversation between the two of you on immigration.

    Noah Smith blocks me from seeing his Twitter.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @El Dato
    , @KL
  101. “by Patricia Cohen”

    No further questions, your honor.

  102. @Axilon

    Don’t be a jackass — actually, too late for that. I’m not a boomer, and it’s not my responsibility to ensure poorly managed businesses have cheap foreign labor, with the beautiful caveat I’m supposed to be grateful to them I have the chance to subsidize poor immigrants with my tax money while the companies keep the profit. My nation is worth much more to me than cheap chicken. I would say you’re a troll, but I have met a few people in real life who think like you. And every one has been a parasite on this great land.

  103. Kronos says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    I found it in a old used junk store a few years back. I also found this.

  104. black sea says:
    @istevefan

    Or we could just skip the radishes entirely.

  105. @Daniel H

    The best solution for this kind of work is to mechanized it.

  106. eah says:

    We still need more immigrants.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @Kronos
  107. eah says:
    @eah

    If “white men” in America won’t do the work, no one else will either — so we need immigrants — or refugees — ‘the more the better’.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    , @Anonymous
  108. @Whiskey

    Few men win in a free sex market and mist women win in such a market.

    That is not mathematically possible.

  109. eah says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Noah Smith blocks me from seeing his Twitter.

    This is only effective when/if you are logged-in to your own account, right? — you can try to use Twitter search: leave all fields blank except “From these accounts”, and enter the handle of the account you want to view — perhaps an ‘incognito’ window when you are logged-in — ?

    This may also work: Next, head to TwitRSS.me. This is a free service that converts any Twitter feed into an RSS feed.

  110. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s only one riposte to this bullshit:

    “Schaeffer’s Number”.

    (See iSteve passim).

  111. MG says:
    @JoeMac

    G. Perri is a shill for the immivasion lobby. Check who funds him. Also see Norm Matloff’s rebuttals.

  112. @JoeMac

    So, in low wage areas of the economy immigration helps to keep wages low, and employers use novel technologies to perpetuate this state of affairs, while taxpayers, many of whom are themselves on low incomes, subsidise these employers?

  113. Hhsiii says:
    @The Alarmist

    Got me looking these books up. I remember the Preppy Handbook came first. Yup, 1980.

    Lisa Birnbach was main author of that. Yup, as Steve would guess: Jewish. Went to a day prep school in New York. Dad a diamond dealer who’d been in the Irgun. I’m sure some of this was observation of old school WASPs, but some was just prep girl fashion misapprehended as WASP.

    One of the main authors of the Yuppie Hadbook, Marissa Piesman, also Jewish. More a knockoff. She’s written some fiction since, and is a lawyer in NY. Yuppie was never had any particular religious affiliation, but it had an air of condecension to it, like the wasp preppies became yuppies and lost their soul, or something. The Preppy Handbook seems much less dated, of course.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  114. El Dato says:
    @black sea

    The Grey Lady can’t seem to make up her mind.

    Agenda-led journalism.

  115. Kronos says:
    @Hhsiii

    Maybe they’ll make a second edition.

    This one is fake though.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  116. @Counterinsurgency

    Why should the rentiers and their tame government support the natives’ having children, with that long, costly 20-year gestation period, when they can just import workers and consumers?

    You think you’re living in a country. They think you and everyone like you is a worker on their plantation.

    • Agree: BB753, sayless
  117. El Dato says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Noah Smith blocks me from seeing his Twitter.

    7 year olds with Internet access.

  118. Svigor says:

    Imagine being Jewish the New York Times’ target audience, and thinking your long-term prospects were good.

    LoL.

  119. OT

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-22/pakistani-actress-visits-uk-town-says-its-being-home

    Commenting on her first trip to Bradford, Mehwish Hayat said the town was “like a mini Pakistan for me. I feel like I am actually in my own country,” she added.

  120. @black sea

    “Fight For $15” isn’t supposed to actually pass, it’s economic virtue signaling.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  121. The Preppy Handbook seems much less dated, of course.

    Preppy never goes out of style.

    Lisa Birnbach was main author of that. Yup, as Steve would guess: Jewish. Went to a day prep school in New York.

    I used to see a few jewish folk, including her, at J.G. Melon (UES, of course), but I was more focussed on the Burger and my G&T to give them much thought.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
  122. @Axilon

    People like you are the reason why America is dying.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
  123. @Kronos

    Now, now, some commenters don’t like it when you point out longer lifespans have helped screw up the economy.

  124. @Anon

    Per capita= per person.

    • Replies: @Anon
  125. @Liberals are people who can't do math

    Check your math on the 2018 Nominal per capita, because it works out closer to $63k per capita.

    Anyway, if you use the official statistics, which are pretty much what every analyst quotes to me while telling me everything is coming up roses, because they don’t have the skills to unwind and find the truth, those suggest per capita Real GDP is $10k higher from 2000 to 2018 ($47k in 2000 vs. 57k in 2018) … of course the official stats now presented are in “Chained 2012 Dollars” for the purposes of comparison.

    Nevertheless, when you look under the hood at methodologies used to massage the official stats, your conclusion that we are poorer is spot on, while most of the financial wizards think we are getting richer … yeah, we’re getting richer … that’s why consumer debt is getting bigger while savings are getting smaller over time.

  126. Tusk says:

    Immigrants (by the sounds of it) doing the job American’s just wont do: losing packages!

  127. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Per capita= per person.

    LOL! I know that, and I have a dictionary, Google, and click-to-look-up.

    That’s because growth is driven by two ingredients: the size of the work force and how efficiently those workers produce things.

    Sailer’s Law of Immigration Journalism: Articles about immigration’s effect on The Economy will not include the text string “per capita.”

    So … if the work force grows via immigration, then … per capita … wage growth is … ???

    I don’t understand what Steve is getting at with his Law of Immigration Journalism.

    • Replies: @Anon
  128. @Axilon

    Your caretakers were supposed to be your descendants. But if you had any, they probably aren’t interested in taking care of the selfish prick bugman who produced them. I’m gratified to know you will one day (soon?) die alone of sepsis in the “care” of some West Indian nursing staff. Eat shit, you deserve it.

    As for the poor slaughterhouse owners and their labor needs, fuck them. Americans are so overfed it is disgusting, and still you demand ever more cheap fried chicken. You all can stand to go on a diet. Eight years of President Yang’s bread lines would improve the lot of you, frankly.

  129. Old Prude says:
    @Axilon

    Yeah. I need sullen Somali girl in a hajib inserting my catheter. “Hey! That hurts!” “I know.”

  130. @216

    In the “old days” in America, much short-term harvest labor was simply done by locals, especially kids. Nowadays we lock our kids inside air-conditioned prisons disguised as “schools.” It was a lot easier to use local labor when local people weren’t totally tied down to jobs or school. Yay modern capitalism!

    Either way, if you raise the wages, you’ll get more American field workers.

  131. TTSSYF says:
    @L Woods

    It was a major recession, not a depression, but even an extended depression is not going to solve it. This country is past the tipping point, and it’s only going to pick up steam until, like osmosis, it reaches equilibrium with the source countries.

  132. @Anon

    Whigs weren’t pro-immigration!

    I will quote Wikipedia:

    Aside from the Whig economic program, various other issues confronted the Whig Party. Temperance never became a purely partisan issue between Whigs and Democrats, but Whigs tended to be more favorable to state prohibition laws than were Democrats.[147] Similarly, opinions on immigration did not break down strictly on party lines, but Whigs tended to have less favorable views towards immigration, partly because most recent immigrants aligned with the Democratic Party.[148] In the mid-1840s, a group of Whigs unsuccessfully pushed a bill that would have implemented new paperwork requirements for naturalization and monitored the movements of immigrants in the United States more closely. The unwillingness of Whig leaders to push for more far-reaching changes, such as an extension of the five-year naturalization period, encouraged some Whigs to join nativist third parties.[149]

    • Replies: @Logan
  133. TTSSYF says:
    @Axilon

    How did this country get by with very little immigration, to say nothing of Third World immigration, before the immigration laws were changed in 1965? You think maybe — just maybe — some of our native-born might want to “kill, pluck, and gut chickens”, “shovel French fries”, “load potatoes in 100+ degree heat”, or be “caretakers” to Boomers (love the way you disparge honest hard work) if we hadn’t flooded the country with millions of lower IQ immigrants from the Third World for the past 50+ years, as we went from a nation of about 220 million to one of over 330 million? Besides — how do you know what any of us did when first entering the job market? I assure you, more than a few of us endured grueling, low-paying jobs when first starting out, even if we were planning on going to college, “quickly” or not so quickly. I speak from experience, but I’m not whining about it as you are. I didn’t need the motivation to go to college (always knew I was going), but the low-paying, entry-level jobs I did in high school or summers between years in college served as reinforcement. Unlike you, I believed then and now that they were good learning experiences and not to be looked down on.

    And how would you know whether anyone here has a “sorry flabby ass” who won’t be able to “control their own shit”? I despise that kind of presumption (but then, that’s typical of Lefties, with their unshakeable belief in their moral superiority). The level of venom toward your fellow citizens is really something to behold. As one commenter replied, people like you are why the country is dying.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon, Moses
    • Replies: @Moses
  134. Dr. X says:
    @Daniel H

    Agree. If I could make $25 an hour working on a farm I’d be doing it right now. And I have three college degrees…

  135. Drew says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    My younger brother went to Wabash on a scholarship, and ended up working as an RA in one of the dorms. He told me that the dorms tended to be full of girls on the weekends. It turned out that townie girls and students’ girlfriends really liked being in a male-dominant social scene

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  136. @Massimo Heitor

    Economics arguments should weigh the benefits vs the costs.

    Notice the NYT article did not discuss the costs.

    Think of it as woke economics in action.

  137. istevefan says:
    @JoeMac

    Rather than firms changing in response to immigrants, native workers could also change their behavior by specializing in other specific tasks that are different than those undertaken by immigrants.

    That’s shorthand for “learn to code.” They’ve been selling that snake oil for 30 some years. Almost any area that a native can specialize in can be off-shored, or can be taken over by special visas granted to such workers. There are exceptions, but it’s tough to specialize and take on the debt load of training when there is little certainty your new field won’t be the next to be upended by foreign scab labor, or offshoring to China.

  138. Corn says:
    @Moral Stone

    Someone else somewhere else online pointed out something similar a few years ago:

    Democrats: X percentage of Walmart employees are on Medicaid. How shameful!

    Also Democrats: let’s pass universal healthcare and then ALL Americans will be on Medicaid!

  139. istevefan says:
    @eah

    and white men don’t want them.

    I often hear people in debates over foreign workers taking jobs exclaim, “White men don’t want them,” or “White men don’t want to work hard in the sun,” or something similar. But it’s always White men. Over 66% of American’s aren’t White men. But apparently they don’t factor into this.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Daniel H
  140. Aft says:
    @JoeMac

    One of the smarter posts here. But the last two paragraph effects tend to dominate (public benefits and net fiscal impact, racial tensions and cultural disunity, strong distributional impact of who bears the costs, long term change in populace and voter base).

    Short-term “living standards” is very different than longer-term living standards (goodbye public schools, hello lower IQ voters and incompatible cultures and personalities). These shifts erase public goods and the level of trust and civility very quickly.

  141. Aft says:
    @Axilon

    It’s almost like we don’t have things called automation, technology, and innovation to handle these things. Cheap labor must be the only way. Surely automation of low-skill mechanical tasks is an utter impossibility.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  142. mmack says:
    @Henry8

    Henry8,

    The fat-ass extra from The Sopranos who’s now the Governor of Silly-nois is working overtime to keep those landlords rolling in dough:

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/illinois-governor-signs-law-to-protect-immigrant-renters-557794271.html

    Thank goodness people can still live ten to an apartment in Chicago, Aurora, or Joliet with no fear of deportation.

  143. TWS says:
    @Henry8

    I wish I had not used my one agree as an lol. This deserves full agreement and amplification. The reason they want more serfs is more money.

  144. Anonymous[418] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    If “white men” in America won’t do the work, no one else will either

    What do you mean?

    • Replies: @eah
  145. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I look forward to the coming days when Baby Boomers will be rotting in the fields.

    Oh my God, that was too good.

  146. ATBOTL says:
    @The Alarmist

    Boomers are the enemy. They can’t die fast enough.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @TTSSYF
  147. News flash:

    Satan welcomes the soul of his faithful servant David Koch.
    After 79 years of devoted service to Lucifer, the demons of Hell have prepared a special welcome for Mr. Koch.

    Press Secretary Baghdad Bob said: “Because of Koch’s work in improving the environment and working conditions of the earth, Koch is being given the title Lord David, and will be in charge of recruiting immigrants for eternal careers in the Workers Paradise of Hades.”

    • LOL: Daniel H
  148. Jack D says:
    @Redneck farmer

    That’s not true. It has passed in a few places – you can tell which ones because the McDonalds in those cities all have electronic self-ordering kiosks (and less efficient business have started to close).

    Look for more self-checkout stands, etc. too. The next holy grail is not needing to check out at all on an item by item basis – one way or another the store will keep track of what you have purchased and when you are done shopping you just walk out of the store and your purchases will get charged to your card. This is to the extent that we have retail stores at all. Mostly Amazon will have its robots deliver the stuff to you.

    The replacement for $15/hr illegal aliens is not going to be American humans, it’s going to be automation. Unemployment is low already. I know people here scoff at “jobs Americans won’t do” but talk to business owners – this is real. And paying more is not a realistic alternative if those wages put you out of business. Now maybe this is a good thing, but it’s not going back to the old way no matter what.

  149. istevefan says:
    @Jack D

    The replacement for $15/hr illegal aliens is not going to be American humans, it’s going to be automation. Unemployment is low already.

    Please explain this to those who advocate for ever more immigration.

  150. @Intelligent Dasein

    The playwright Shaw looked at this in more detail, and decided polygamy was the solution. He was also a firm believer in eugenic breeding.

    Shaw said that women would rather be one of 10 wives to a great man than the only wife to a loser. Therefore the great man should have as many wives as he could support and were willing to marry him. The result would be a better society, because the men with the better genes would produce more offspring.

    • Agree: jim jones
  151. Related:
    Los Angeles-based Nigerians scamming elderly Japanese women:
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/nigeria-romance-scam-arrests/index.html

    Scams Americans just won’t run.

  152. @Jack D

    Now maybe this is a good thing, but it’s not going back to the old way no matter what.

    I think this will be both good and bad. The cashier, like the switchboard operator before him, will be out of a job and will need to find another one in order to survive. At the same time, future generations will no longer spend any time of their life being a cashier, just like no one today spends any time being a switchboard operator. Can one spend a lifetime working those jobs and feel accomplished? I don’t know.

    But then comes the realization that to some, or many, or even most people there’s no better prospect in life than being a cashier. And then things become complicated.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  153. @Paleo Liberal

    I’m aware of the theory, but I think anybody can easily see why that would never work in practice.

    • Replies: @bomag
  154. @istevefan

    The purpose of non-White immigration, whether legal or illegal, is not to improve the economy, it is to erase, degrade, and hopefully eliminate White people.

    It is quite clear that Patricia COHEN understands this, you should too.

  155. Does this mean we have dirty dishes rotting in the fields?

    • LOL: By-tor
  156. @JoeMac

    Rather than firms changing in response to immigrants, native workers could also change their behavior by specializing in other specific tasks that are different than those undertaken by immigrants.

    There are no such tasks.

  157. @JoeMac

    Immigrants do not cause much of a local negative wage effect. Empirical studies do not find that local immigrant inflows depress wages of noncollege- or college-educated workers by location. Basso and Peri (2016) look at all 722 continental U.S. commuting zones that are local labor markets. They show a correlation between changes in immigrants as a share of the workforce and the percentage change of wages for noncollege- and college-educated workers for the 1970 to 2010 period. The correlation is positive and significant in both cases, which demonstrates that larger inflows of immigrants are somewhat associated with higher wages.

    And from this they conclude that the effect is the cause, and the cause is the effect. Immigration is the result, not the cause, of higher wages.

  158. SafeNow says:

    “What happens…once the final boomer gasps his last breath?”

    Ask the family of the fellow killed yesterday by poor elevator maintenance. Ask the passengers of the Delta flight delayed yesterday for 18 hours. Idiocracy is “what happens.”

  159. @JoeMac

    Steve, there is a large academic literature studying the effect of low wage/skilled immigration on low wage/skilled Americans, and it is not consistent with your views. Yet I never see you seriously deal with it.

    First, it’s BS. The depressive effect of immigration on wages is an inarguable FACT that follows ineluctably from the fact that the immigrants do not proportionally — i.e., per capita — increase the aggregate capital to which labor is applied.

    Second, the depressive effect on wages is only about number 7 on the list of reasons why immigration is a disaster for the natives.

    How you can be bamboozled by “research” and “literature” when the claim can be refuted in one sentence? There is nothing to research. It’s an economic law.

  160. By-tor says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    No, NATO member Denmark’s Greenland is to be re-militarized for the US’ new intermediate range nuclear-tipped cruise missiles which will be used to attack Russia ( and China ). The US was obvioulsy lying about why it just left the 1987 INF Treaty with Russia. The flight time to Murmansk for these previously banned missiles will be minutes. They can also be used to attack the larger cities of NE Russia. It is not about hotels nor ‘jobs’ at all. It never is with the US.

  161. Lurker says:
    @guest

    Would it still be America?

    Of course, even more so than now because: non-white majority.

  162. @AnotherDad

    In 1999 I left my job as a science professor at Podunk University (not a real place, but there is a real Podunk, Iowa). I was earning in the low 30s at the time. That was with a PhD. My students were going to make one that I with a BS degree. So I left, studied for a certification exam and went to NYC for the dot-coms. I had taken a few CS classes along the way, and I had done a little science programming.

    About a year later I had a job making $70k. 9 months after that I was out of a job.

    Right now I am making $70/hour as a consultant. No benefits, no sick days, no vacation. Adjusting for inflation and benefits, I am doing no better with almost 20 years’ experience than I was with almost 1 year experience.

    I lost my last permanent job, where I was being paid very little money, because they wanted to move my job offshore. I lost another job because the company wanted a cheaper H1-B.

    At one point “learn to code “ was good advice. These days, at best it allows me to survive.

  163. J.Ross says:

    David Koch is dead and it sounds like Angel Has Fallen might be the one piece of mainsteam mass media to tell the truth about the Russia hoax.

  164. J.Ross says:
    @JoeMac

    Rather than firms changing in response to immigrants, native workers could also change their behavior by specializing in other specific tasks that are different than those undertaken by immigrants.

    They said this about automation in the 80s. The only coherent meaning of this condescending sophistry is “you should become a successful entrepreneur,” which is a child’s idea of advice, and mathematically not possible for almost all of the affected group.

    • Replies: @guest
  165. J.Ross says:
    @istevefan

    The same people say that it’s justice because whites used to keep those jobs for themselves.

  166. Lurker says:
    @Mr McKenna

    There are more than 486 people named Pedro Martinez in my small town alone. (And 39 Sanjay Guptas.)

    You are indeed blessed.

  167. Corn says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I can’t recall the exact quote but I think Shaw pithily stated, “Most women would rather have half a millionaire than all of a janitor “ or something to that effect.

    I’m torn on polygamy. I’ve heard the argument that polygamy is good eugenics before and there may be something to it. On the other hand(as Steve has written over the years) I do think monogamy brings out more peaceful, stable, and democratic societies. I’d hate to give that up.

    Plus I’m very shy and awkward. I know damn well I’d be a loser in a polygamous sexual market.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Anon
  168. Abacus says:
    @notsaying

    I was in an agriculture-based machine company 25 years ago I attended an agriculture show in Atlanta, and even then, there were displays of machines and equipment that could do pretty much anything you could imagine to replace humans on most farms. From picking fruit, to crop management, to cow milking, to collecting and rendering chickens.

    Democrats wanted to keep slavery in the 19th century, and worked 150 years to get slavery back in the 21st.

    Having a slave mow my middle class lawn is equivalent to the introduction of the fully operating washing machine of the 40’s

  169. istevefan says:
    @JoeMac

    Steve, there is a large academic literature studying the effect of low wage/skilled immigration on low wage/skilled Americans, and it is not consistent with your views. Yet I never see you seriously deal with it.

    George Borjas of Harvard has been researching immigration and wages for 30 years. Here is an op-ed he wrote.

    Somebody’s lower wage is always somebody else’s higher profit. In this case, immigration redistributes wealth from those who compete with immigrants to those who use immigrants—from the employee to the employer. And the additional profits are so large that the economic pie accruing to all natives actually grows. I estimate the current “immigration surplus”—the net increase in the total wealth of the native population—to be about$50 billion annually. But behind that calculation is a much larger shift from one group of Americans to another: The total wealth redistribution from the native losers to the native winners is enormous, roughly a half-trillion dollars a year. Immigrants, too, gain substantially; their total earnings far exceed what their income would have been had they not migrated.

    When we look at the overall value of immigration, there’s one more complicating factor: Immigrants receive government assistance at higher rates than natives. The higher cost of all the services provided to immigrants and the lower taxes they pay (because they have lower earnings) inevitably implies that on a year-to-year basis immigration creates a fiscal hole of at least $50 billion—a burden that falls on the native population.

    What does it all add up to? The fiscal burden offsets the gain from the $50 billion immigration surplus, so it’s not too farfetched to conclude that immigration has barely affected the total wealth of natives at all. Instead, it has changed how the pie is split, with the losers—the workers who compete with immigrants, many of those being low-skilled Americans—sending a roughly $500 billion check annually to the winners. Those winners are primarily their employers. And the immigrants themselves come out ahead, too. Put bluntly, immigration turns out to be just another income redistribution program.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  170. @ATBOTL

    And what does your tattoo say?

  171. Kronos says:
    @Axilon

    If you paid workers $35 an hour like back in the 1970s (according to Sailer) it wouldn’t be a problem. People migrated away from labor type jobs because the money sucked. The “free trade” deals with NAFTA and China that sacrificed labor’s pay for stock profits took care of that.

    In Oregon laborers are being payed $ 20 to plant/look after hemp plants (they’re quite a cash crop.)

    So far there isn’t a “Big Marijuana” firm (it’s still illegal on the federal level) to offshore production overseas.

  172. @notsaying

    Immigration is only libertarian when it pays for itself. It doesn’t. Here or anywhere else in the West.

    Has anyone done a cost analysis (I was going to say “cost/benefit”) of immigrants to countries with higher standards or restricted numbers? Is there a net benefit?

    Or are the sample sizes too small?

  173. @JoeMac

    Steve, there is a large academic literature studying the effect of low wage/skilled immigration on low wage/skilled Americans, and it is not consistent with your views. Yet I never see you seriously deal with it.

    Joe —

    Yes, there’s a large academic literature–attempting to repeal the law of supply and demand–to gin up some sort of “no, really it’s good for you too” fig leaf for immigration, because it’s in the interest of capital and the super-state (business, rich guys, goodthinkers, TPTB … the folks with $$$ and the folks who approve reaseach $$$).

    But the serious literature all says basically the same thing: immigration doesn’t do anything for native Amerians. The net benefits mostly go to the immigrants. What it does to the natives is shift income to the rich–the owners of capital–at the expense of the working classes, especially the unskilled.

    And the raw facts are well known: Incomes at the bottom have more or less stalled the last couple generations, while those at the top have risen dramatically. Labor (i.e. wages) have decreased as a share of the economy.

    ~~~

    Lewis (2011) explains the lack of a relative wage effects at the local level by showing that immigration may increase the intensity of dropout workers and thus induce the choice of dropout-efficient production techniques that demand more dropout workers that then offsets the increased supply of such workers. Peri (2012) further shows that firms in states with many immigrants choose techniques more efficient in the use of noncollege workers that offsets the anticipated negative wage impacts with productivity gains. In other words, firms change their production techniques to take account of immigrant labor that can then attenuate immigration’s potential negative impact on wages.

    Do you even understand what this means?

    It means if you want to fix your broken driveway, instead of having one guy–making $30/hr–with a loader/backhoe with jackhammer attachment break it up and dump it into his dump truck … your contractor will have six Mexicans with sledgehammers smash it up, shovel up the debris and wheelbarrow the pieces over into some trailers behind their beat pickups.

    I.e. … joining the 3rd world.

    You want this–peachy. Let’s separate–and you and bozo Noah Smith can have it for your nation.

  174. Kronos says:
    @Aft

    The the thing is, automation means no payroll government revenue and no social security contributions to keep the Boomers high rolling.

    https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/259/MI0002259324.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

  175. @notsaying

    The sad thing is Trump really didn’t actually put the $100 bill in his wallet He picked it up, toyed with it, to garner the attention and cheers of millions … then let it slip back onto the ground.

    “Racist!” “Nazi!” Trump is actually well to the left of the American people on immigration.

    When are we going to get someone who actually mirrors merely what the American people already think. Much less someone willing to do the plain speaking about what “nation of immigrants” must mathematically eventually mean–i.e. turning your nation into a shithole.

  176. njguy73 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Name me one polygamous society that has achieved a standard of living and a level of intellectual accomplishment comparable to what the West has achieved in the Common Era.

    Take your time.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Daniel H
  177. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:

    Our Gross Domestic Penis is 2 billion inches! Beat that u loosers! Hahaha!

    But how many inches per capita (male)?

    You never mind that! Not important!

  178. @Drew

    Thanks.

    A prof at U of St Thomas let out in a talk at a local church that there is a very quiet trend toward admissions discrimination in favor of men. It seems that the numerical dominance of female students is unpopular with prospective female students. After all, there are already women’s colleges, some prestigious, if that’s what they wanted.

    Allowing the imbalance to continue, never mind grow, leads to what the speaker called a “death spiral”.

    But note that this discrimination is quiet. Very quiet.

    I’d like to think that the paucity of men in higher education is the result of wise young fellows choosing more remunerative paths such as plumbing and auto mechanics. But that may be optimistic.

    • Replies: @Lot
  179. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    What do you mean?

    Umm, maybe you should ask her?

    But I would say if you want to portray a job as one “Americans won’t do”, and so we need to import people to do that job, you shouldn’t pick “white men” as your archetypical “Americans” who won’t do that job since they are closer to the top of the economic pyramid than the bottom — if you want to push immigrants or refugees for such work perhaps it’s better to pick a group closer to the bottom as your archetypical “Americans” who don’t want to do that job — does that make sense? — but then we have “record low black unemployment”, so there’s that problem.

    Anyway, I was being sarcastic — I can’t help myself because I can’t take articles like this seriously — or women like her.

  180. Kronos says:
    @eah

    My house is on fire, therefore I need more wood.

  181. @Axilon

    Next time you want to kill, pluck and gut chickens, let me know. I can get you a job…

    Comments like this are just silly.

    Supply and demand. We didn’t have a big supply of foreign labor when i was a kid, and yet … there was meat! (Even though ag yields were much lower and the standard of living was much lower … even without all the computerization and automation we have now … there was meat!)

    What would happen if we effectively cut off immigration:
    — A bunch of Americans would be employed at the much higher wages required to get Americans to pluck chickens.
    — Chicken will cost more, people will eat a bit less.
    — Chicken processors will employ even more mechanization/automation.

    Believe it or not … if the rest of the world did not exist there would still be an American economy.
    Believe it or not … there’s a world economy even though we don’t have any foreign workers coming in from Mars.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Corn
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Anonymous
  182. Corn says:
    @AnotherDad

    Damn right. Years ago someone wrote an article on VDare about meatpacking plants in the Midwest or Great Plains. These plants were often unionized, safety standards were thus higher, and people were often hired in at the inflation adjusted 2019 equivalent of $18-20 per hour. Back in the ‘70s and ‘80s. It was hard dirty work but for that pay and the benefits Americans did compete for those jobs.

    Then in the 80s and 90s the meatpacking firms started bringing in immigrants. Wages fell or stayed stagnant, unions weakened, the work got more dangerous and entire small towns in the Midwest and Great Plains have become Mexicanized…… or beyond! Last I heard Beardstown, IL had a population of francophone West or Central Africans.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
  183. sayless says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    How do women view these all-male schools

    I suppose they’re all private?

    It would be good if there were more of them. Under present circumstances I suspect all-male four-year schools can more readily set academic standards as they please; fewer diversity-and-gender courses, more academic activity reflecting meritocracy, objectivity, /Protestant/ work ethic, rationality, the kind of culture that would make Dean Baquet and the current chancellor of the New York City school system start bucking.

    Venues where men can be with other men simplex, or boys with other boys are evaporating, so there’s that too. Even the Boy Scouts are admitting girls now.

    Morehouse and the others may be the last best hope for the humanities and people in academia who are interested in ideas.

  184. I don’t believe it in this here Raceracerace alldeliblongday magazine, an article on class.

    The Pope is shitting in the woods.

  185. One thing that would be amusing is if it weren’t so annoying and pathetic is that the immigration boosters assert both:

    — immigrants aren’t taking American jobs or lowering American’s wages

    and

    — if we don’t have more immigrants no one will do these jobs!–crops, chicken, motel rooms, old people will be rotting in the fields!

    These two things just can not be true with any concept of a “market” or any concept of “supply and demand” setting prices. You can say they’ll be a “shortage” of workers for X and ergo the price of X will rise. But that’s just an implicit admission that in fact, yes, immigrants are lowering American’s wages.

    If the job category was say “quantum singularity warp drive maintainence engineer” and there really was absolutely no American with the skills or able to acquire the skills, and we needed to import the guy from Zeta Reticuli … ok, there’s an argument. But we’re talking about framing 2x4s, hanging dryway, mowing lawns, cleaning motel rooms, washing dishes and plucking, f–king, chickens. I think Americans have those skills–i’ve done almost all of them myself–and are ergo in those labor markets. We are just haggling about the price.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  186. @AnotherDad

    Speaking of supply and demand, what’s with India?

    Another day, another two dollars:

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  187. Jack D says:
    @istevefan

    Cost/benefit analysis is a very inexact science and subject to political manipulation. If the Corps of Engineers wants to or doesn’t want to build a particular dam or something, it’s very easy for them to pull numbers out of their ass and say that the thing is net positive or net negative . No one has a magic crystal ball and by changing various weights and assumptions in your model you can forecast widely different results, all equally justifiable (or equally speculative). You can conjure up “recreational value” and attach any number you want to it, even if its a vast expanse of concrete where no one wants to recreate.

    Immigration is the same -it’s fundamentally a political question and is not going to get settled by “science” or “economics”. That being said, anti-immigrant proponents need to understand that everything, even immigration, has both pluses and minuses (and there is more than tacos on the plus side even if you refuse to admit it). Even a monster like Stalin did some things that were positive for Russia. A little humility would go a long way, but it’s hard to maintain humility in the face of the other side’s arrogance when they are maintaining a position that is just as absolutist in the other direction. No one wants to be the one who blinks first and admits that the other side has a point too.

  188. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    This is not really true. Let’s take a very simplified economy where there were only two jobs possible – say programmer and chicken plucker. Programmers have a marginal productivity of $40/hr and make $30 (the employer keeps $10 as profit). Chicken pluckers have a marginal productivity of $20/hr and make $15. Let’s say that there’s a high demand for coders so that everyone who wants a coding job and can do the work already has such a job. One day all the pluckers are deported to their native Slobovia. The employers put up “Help Wanted – Chicken Plucker – $15/hr” signs up. No one responds. They raise it a bit, still no bites. They can’t raise it past $20 or they will be losing money on each chicken they sell. They try raising the price of chicken but people switch to other foods. They are not going to get a single employee until they start paying $30+/hr (plus because chicken plucker is less pleasant work). At $35/hr, chicken costs more than beef so hardly anyone buys chicken anymore. The employer as a practical matter can’t get chicken pluckers at any price that will allow him to stay in business. Now maybe that’s the breaks of a market economy – there are things like lobster that were once cheap and now are very rare and only consumed by the prosperous. Maybe chicken will be one of those things (again – chicken was once a luxury food). But when the chicken processor says “If you send the Slobovians home I will have to close my processing plant” he’s not lying.

  189. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Growth != “wage growth”

  190. @Whiskey

    Our hyper competitive rat race capitalist system has absolutely nothing to do with an aristocracy. Aristocracies actually have a pretty good track record, and their elites are not quite as decadent or predatory as ours. Aristocracies tend to be good for both the poor and artsy types.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  191. Aquinas73 says:

    We need to abolish public schools as widely as possible. Cut all foreign aid. Bring all the troops home and gut military spending. I would try a 2/3 cut. Eliminate all unconstitutional federal departments, including the IRS.

    Abolish the income tax, and promote a move towards trying to eliminate property taxes by allowing private voluntary companies to offer services like any other natural (non-coercive) exchange.

    Repeal all executive orders and enforce the Constitution on Congress and the Judiciary. Order them to repeal all unconstitutional statutory law. Instruct the states to encourage citizens to build savings in gold silver and use some in exchange for goods and services.

    Plan a 15 to 20 years phasing out of Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare: beginning with allowing working people to opt out. Payroll withholding would become voluntary and completely nonbinding. Withdraw all enforcement of payroll withholding on private companies and citizens.

    Stop tax subsidies for all businesses in this country, including farming. All subsidies eliminated. The government no longer chooses who will succeed and who will fail.

    Allow the phasing out and elimination of the Federal Reserve and central banking.

    Publicly encourage private charity and assistance to the poor. Remind citizens that the Federal government is phasing out all activity of this kind and turning it over to citizen action and state governments.

    Remove all public officials who belong to secret societies that profess beliefs counter to Christendom and the Constitution. Skull and Bones would top the list.

    Outlaw these secret societies.

    Stop federal funding of everything including abortion and even churches and religious organizations.

    Stop funding of the United Nations and withdraw completely. Abolish and withdraw from all international treaties and trade agreements that violate the Constitution and work against the interests of families and the country.

    Outlaw microchip implantation of human beings. Outlaw coercive policies of biometric data: finger/retinal scans and involuntary DNA collection of those who have not been convicted of a felony.

    Abolish the National Guard and instruct the states to examine their history and law to reconstitute their Militia. Abolish all federal gun control laws and instruct the states to follow the Constitution in these matters.

    Encourage the states to simply collect excise taxes and encourage them to remove cameras from public streets and stoplights.

    Instruct the states to de-militarize their police. Remind them that the Constitution only mandates Sheriffs departments at the county level. Encourage phasing out local and state police.

    Verbally encourage private initiative and domestic build up for greater independence and also energy competition; let the market choose energy.

    Use American courts to curb pollution and genuine environmental dangers. Remind the courts they can punish crime but cannot socially engineer society or tell business how to run.

    Explore the possibility of outlawing third party payments masquerading as health insurance. Remind entrepreneurs that insurance is for accidents and catastrophic medical conditions. Remind health practitioners of the Hippocratic oath.

    This is all a start on a long road. It could happen, but it was very late 100 years ago, I guess.

    In short, America needs to return to the Faith of the early Catholic Church and the Middle Ages. The state should profess the Catholic Faith and help gut a corrupt church that is no longer Catholic and does not have a Catholic Pope.

    Even Murray Rothbard, the great libertarian economist, knew the greatness of the Church, and how she built the west.

    Material things are good, but they are not what moves a healthy society through time and holds it together. Freedom begins with a relationship with the True God, humanly personified in our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Let’s work to strive for eternal life in heaven. It is worth all the effort.

  192. @Kronos

    Not sure if intentional, but with the i-pod this one is pretty outdated too. Looks like circa 2007.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  193. bomag says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    …that would never work in practice.

    There are plenty of extant examples: Middle East; Africa; hook-up culture in the West.

    • Replies: @Herbert West
  194. Muggles says:

    So are all of the able bodied Americans who were on welfare now gainfully employed? Is this why immigrants are “needed” to stave off economic stagnation?

    Somehow I missed that headline No More Able Bodied on Welfare Rolls, Jobs Need Filling.

  195. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    That’s great but it already happened that a California garlic farm that offered more money was able to hire Americans and make a profit.

  196. guest says:
    @J.Ross

    Biologically not possible, because most people aren’t smart enough. Unless collecting pop cans or selling boiled peanuts by the side of the road is what we mean by entrepreneur.

  197. J.Ross says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Chinese have snobbery but they’re also mercilessly pragmatic (party members caught cheating on their taxes are executed). While the Chinese great living standard improvement has not been even across the board, they tried to make it as democratic as possible, and its execution probably represents the outer limit of human possibility. Indians on the other hand have maximal unjustified snobbery and nothing else.

    • Agree: BB753
  198. guest says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    And the loser males? What would they do?

    Funny thing, Shaw was a socialist, but here he sounds laissez-faire. Harems result from free sexual competition between males. Monogamy is forced redistribution of you-know-what.

    Also, why should we care what women would rather have? They have not proven themselves to be responsible executives of their own desires.

  199. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    There was an article about UNC having affirmation action for men about 15 years ago.

  200. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    The low level of immigration requires me to use AC rather than have a team of robed coolies follow me around fanning me with feathered palms like the maharaja I was born to be.

    Outrageous!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  201. @Intelligent Dasein

    I guess we’re back in “80% of men rated below-average by women” country. You can’t do exact maths on who wins and who loses in the sexual marketplace because winning means different things to men and women.

    Most women ‘win’ in that they can get a man into bed. But that’s not all they want, hence the number of women moaning about online dates who just want to get in their pants. Very few men consider this a problem.

    Only a minority of men can get lots of women into bed, and pick and choose which they’ll have a relationship with.

    “You’ve had lots of lovely women
    Now you turn your gaze to me
    Weighing the beauty and the imperfection
    To see if I’m worthy”

    Few men would write “you’ve slept with all the guys, I really hope you want a long-term relationship with me”.

  202. @njguy73

    That one is too easy.

    The “common era” generally refers to the past 2019 years.
    During the majority of that time, the most prosperous, most technologically advanced and most culturally advanced place on the planet was China, which was, until a few decades ago, polygamist.

    I am not advocating polygamy, merely stating what Shaw said.

    However, anyone who thinks European civilization was the most advanced civilization in the world for more than the past few centuries is delusional. China was greatly advanced at times when most of Europe consisted of barbarian tribes.

    During the Middle Ages, the polygamist Islamic societies were also more advanced than Europe.

    Nor has Europe been completely monogamist. While the European kings didn’t have official concubines, they had ladies who were, in effect, concubines. It has been claimed that all white people are descendants of Charlemagne, just to name one prolific example. This may not be true, but he did get around.

    • Replies: @BB753
  203. MarkinLA says:
    @Axilon

    You remind me of the guy I know who sells expensive bottles of wine to high end restaurants. He was crying that we NEED this valuable cheap labor so that the poor restaurateur could continue to stay in business. Yes without 10 dollar an hour dishwashers and other low income people behind the fancy door he wouldn’t be able to sell his 300 dollar bottle of wine with the 300 do9llar dinner tab in his West Los Angeles restaurant before he goes home to his multimillion dollar Hollywood Hills home.

    No, I have to go to the grocery store and watch that dishwasher pay for his groceries with his EBT card. Unfortunately for him, his case of beer isn’t allowed and he had to pay with cash for that.

  204. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D

    You screwed up your argument when you said there were only two jobs. If there are only two jobs then there is only one thing to eat – chicken. There is no other alternative.

    • Replies: @Anony_LOL
  205. BB753 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Have you ever heard of the Roman Empire, or of its eastern offshoot, Byzantium (which held up until 1453), or of the advances in technology during the Late Middle Ages and its continuation, the Renaissance? I guess not.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  206. @War for Blair Mountain

    Instapundit linked to this today: https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/11/the-tyranny-of-myopia/

    Best line: “…every single institution in the United States is either actively malicious toward the American people, or a complete scam—and often both.”

  207. Sean says:

    Hmm. State of the Unions the The New Yorker’s Caleb Crain on what happened to America’s labor movement, but doesn’t mention immigration. He does mention that organised labour tends to increase voter turnout for Democrats.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  208. J.Ross says:
    @Sean

    No kidding, because the only thing an American labor union does is political water-carrying work that ought to be or is illegal. Phone-manning, rallies, get out the vote, door to door, pressure. Screw your salary, forget your rights, accept whatever management wants, but did I mention I am illegally and baselessly ordering you to vote Democrat and to not open your mouth if you think otherwise. I have met so many Republican tradesmen who complain about completely undisguised Democratic party organizing (and often, it’s their main problem with unions).

  209. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    You’re not going to miss it if the maharajah can no longer afford hot and cold running servants (though HE will). BUT, you are going to miss it if you can’t afford to eat chicken anymore or can’t even get it because all the processing plants have closed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Johann Ricke
  210. @Jack D

    Excellent example.

    BUT, I don’t care if chicken costs $10 a pound if we can get rid of the 40 million illegals who probably cost us the best part of a trillion dollars a year.

    The chicken factory owner only profits because he fobs off the social costs (welfare, more traffic, higher housing costs, etc.) on the middle class.

    How about we have a 30 year pause like we did from 1930 and 1960 and see how that works.

  211. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @adreadline

    I think this will be both good and bad. The cashier, like the switchboard operator before him, will be out of a job and will need to find another one in order to survive. At the same time, future generations will no longer spend any time of their life being a cashier, just like no one today spends any time being a switchboard operator. Can one spend a lifetime working those jobs and feel accomplished? I don’t know.

    But then comes the realization that to some, or many, or even most people there’s no better prospect in life than being a cashier. And then things become complicated.

    Making it unprofitable not to make at least the majority of US branded appliances and consumer durable goods in the US would create a few million jobs for 95-110 IQ people.

    When supermarkets were union, cashier was a nearly middle class job. Those union cashiers were efficient and accurate, they had to be.

  212. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Maybe some businesses SHOULD go out of business. The artificially cheap chicken, no longer available, will force consumos to spend their money on other goods and services. Chicken will become more expensive, people will eat less chicken, but also more rural people will keep chickens as a hobby business and smaller momsicle and popsicle chicken plants will do well providing more upscale product. And more people will look into eating other fowl.

    Throttling illegal mestizo availability has had the effect of causing the local Jack-In-The-Box franchise operator out here to hire negroes, many of whom are surly, inattentive and convey a vibe that makes me mistrust their food. I’ve quit going to the JITB out here at night, and where once they were busy on third shift even the drunks won’t go there much any more. JITB will wind up shutting down at night, as White Castle had to when they were in this market, or upping the pay at night substantially. This will create opportunities and enticements for other operators to stay open later.

    Tight labor markets are good for workers. Loose labor benefits people who do not spend money in our city or state.

  213. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    There will always be chicken available at a price. It will be a higher price, but that won’t kill me.
    Americans die of overweight , not starvation.

    And if the wholesale price of chicken tripled, how much would retail at a fried chicken joint go up? Real estate is their biggest cost , not the chicken itself. Labor is second.

    Maybe if chicken gets high enough, white Overland Park residents will go out in front of the Darth Vader building or out by the Micro Center and poach geese. Good exercise for them and it would reduce the mounds of green goose shit everywhere. You just walk into the flock and when the bull goose comes after you it gets a camshaft in the neck.

  214. Hhsiii says:
    @The Alarmist

    Ha, I still have a burger at JG every few months.

  215. anon[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Your model assumes that there are plenty jobs for programmers, so none of them need work. And there is no one else in the economy, so there are no unemployed. Why build such unreal conditions into your model? This tells us nothing about what immigration is doing to our wages in real America today, where we have high unemployment and many college grads who cannot get programning jobs.
    I was in Moscow ID for a weekend and noticed that, unlike Seattle, almost all of the menial labor help there are white Americans. The hotel maids, waiters, cashiers, etc., all white.
    Employers in Seattle will swear that they need immigrants to do these type of jobs because Americans will not do them. The truth is Seattle employers simpy will not pay a living wage for these jobs, given the cost of living in the area compared to Moscow, ID.

  216. @Jack D

    BUT, you are going to miss it if you can’t afford to eat chicken anymore or can’t even get it because all the processing plants have closed.

    That’s a good variant of the crops will rot in the fields. Of course, we know that the assembly of computers in China makes them *more* affordable, not less. Similarly, the processing of meats abroad makes them cheaper, which is why there are so many products that say, more or less, “caught/grown in the US, processed in China”.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  217. @Jack D

    This is not really true. Let’s take a very simplified economy where there were only two jobs possible – say programmer and chicken plucker…

    No, what i said is true.

    What you are pointing out is also true. The wages of chicken pluckers must rise to the point that some American wants to take the job. And if that price makes chicken processors install more automation equipment–so be it. And in theory, that drives chicken prices so high no one want’s to buy chicken and the chicken industry goes away.

    But back in the real world, that’s nonsense. American’s are not all making $30/hr coding. We have lots and lots of them making minimum and near minimum wage; or out of the workforce. All you have to do is raise wages packing plant wages back to where they once were in relative terms. As i pointed out, you and i had meat when we were kids, when agriculture was actually less efficient, packing plants were less efficient (required more labor per chicken) and people were overall poorer.

    But when the chicken processor says “If you send the Slobovians home I will have to close my processing plant” he’s not lying.

    Depends on how he means it.

    If he means “if you send my Slobovians home but let my competitor Bob’s Chicken hire his illegal Mexicans … i’ll have to close” sure. He’s probably not lying. The US must enforce the law *everywhere*, otherwise in low-margin comodity industries the law obeyers get screwed by the law-breakers.

    But if he means “if you send my Slobovians and everyone else home and all chicken processors don’t have immigrant cheap labor … i’ll have to close” then either
    — he’s lying
    or
    — he’s just a poor businessman who has more dependence on cheap labor than his competition and is unable to operate as efficiently as his competition.

    In that case–good riddance! I want businessmen go out of business when they suck. I want businesses that can deploy modern equipment to become more productive per unit labor. That is how living standards rise. It’s a good thing.

  218. @BB753

    Your pointless sarcasm is only exceeded by your ignorance.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but through at least the end of the Ming Dynasty, China was the most advanced place on earth in science and culture. Yes, including the Byzantine Empire.

    Chinese were making multi-stage rockets using gunpowder before Europeans “discovered” gunpowder, and the European “discovery” of gunpowder was just taking what the Chinese already had.

    Chinese had the printing press centuries before Europeans.

    If you read the great thinkers of the 17th Century, which was at one of the greatest times of scientific expansion of any time and place in history, you would know they considered Chinese science and technology to be superior.

    Not to mention Chinese medicines were far advanced compared to western medicine until around the 20th century. Unless you think bloodletting really is an advanced medical procedure. Western studies have shown that acupuncture and reflexology have a number of medical uses, and Chinese herbal medicine is quite sophisticated.

    As far as culture, I’ve been to the National Palace Museum in Taipei several times. Nothing in Europe could compare to Chinese art until the past few centuries.

    Nor was European music anywhere near as sophisticated as Chinese music until at least the time of Bach, maybe later.

    I could not possibly judge Chinese poetry.

    As far as European philosophers, Bertrand Russel wrote about the problems with European philosophy in medieval times.

    All Westerners should be proud of the amazing advances of Western science, technology and culture over about the past 500 years. There is nothing comparable in human history. However, at the time these started, Europeans borrowed heavily from Arabic and Asian cultures to get started. Those cultures were ahead of our own. It took centuries to pass everyone else.

    Knowing that is a cautionary tale. The Chinese are determined to regain the lead they lost in the 18th and 19th Centuries. They are doing all sorts of things, fair and foul, to regain the lead. If we are complacent and simply assume we cannot be caught and passed, we are simply repeating the mistakes of Qing Dynasty China.

  219. Kronos says:
    @S. Anonyia

    I’m assuming it was a fake spoof around 2007. I looked it up and there never was a true second edition.

  220. Daniel H says:
    @njguy73

    …….to what the West has achieved in the Common Era.

    Better: Christian Era.

  221. Daniel H says:
    @istevefan

    But it’s always White men. Over 66% of American’s aren’t White men. But apparently they don’t factor into this.

    White liberals have hated white working class men since 1968. That was the year that the white working class turned it’s collective back on the Democrat party and voted for either Nixon or Wallace. This infuriated liberals and they have been on a vendetta since. And though the working class is not majority white men anymore liberals cannot get beyond their blind rage and hate of white working men. They blame the white working class for racism, war (vietnam and others since), right to lifers, Christianity, oil, homophobia, misogyny, anti-semitism, police brutality, Islamophobia, Nixon, Reagan, Trump, you name it. All that they hold dear they believe that the powerful (ha!) white working class is determined to oppose and undermine, and therefore they feel justified, even gleeful over the prospect of immiserating the white working class.

    This summer was the 50th anniversary of that arch-typical left, liberal propagandist film Easy Rider. I recall reading an interview of Terry Southern, the screenwriter of the film and a determined 60s liberal. He stated that he purposely hammed it up with his characterization of evil southern cops/red necks because he hated the white working class so much and blamed them for all that went wrong in the late 60s. White liberals really, really hate you.

    • Agree: Counterinsurgency
  222. @Jack D

    Just to be clear Jack, i do understand your artificial model.

    But the part of it that is incorrect is this:

    Programmers have a marginal productivity of $40/hr and make $30 (the employer keeps $10 as profit). Chicken pluckers have a marginal productivity of $20/hr and make $15.

    The marginal productivity simply is not fixed, because the price of software and chicken is not fixed. Again … supply and demand.

    In your model, what happens without immigrants is that chicken immediately gets scarce and its price rises. Chicken processors then start offering something over $30 to get people to quit programming and process chicken. (Exactly what they have to offer will depend on people’s preferences. Some might rather process chicken for $30, but i’d guess most won’t.)

    There are now some number of people–well paid–processing chicken, and that same number fewer people programming. So programmers are now in slightly more demand and get a bit more–say $31/hr.

    If labor is substituable *at all* that’s what happens. Again … supply and demand. It is simply impossible to claim “shortage” and “immigration doesn’t lower wages”.

    ~

    To get to the scenario where immigration really addressed an actual “shortage”, you’d need a category of labor that truly had a complete barrier–the natives really could not do the work. My “quantum singularly warp drive maintenance engineer” was a poke at that. But no such job exists.

    There’s only one job** i know of where there really is this intractable barrier–child bearing. We’ve seen situations at various times on the frontier where the sex skew was extreme, and they specifically imported women for a job the natives really couldn’t do. (“Here Come the Brides”) If American women all die off from checking-my-phone-wasting-disease … even I would be in favor of some–very selective–immigration to address the problem. (With of course a ban on smart phones.)

    ** I guess there are actually two such jobs, the other being “child siring”. If there ever were isolated female populations requiring such assistance, i’m sure they had plenty of volunteers.

  223. Moses says:
    @TTSSYF

    Can confirm that menial labor jobs reinforced my desire to attend college. It also gave me an appreciation for the work that blue collar ppl do.

    Lifting 100lb bags of cement and stacking lumber outside all day in summer heat has a way of focusing the mind.

    Same for working in a cookie factory.

    Depressing wages for most vulnerable in our society so rich can have cheaper services was a really bad idea. It will not end well.

    • Agree: black sea, Logan
  224. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    In the true words of the Right Honourable Boris Johnson MP, Her Majesty’s Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Realms and Dominions etc, “Fuck Business”.

  225. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:

    No doubt the ante bellum ‘slave power’ in the old south complained bitterly that the southern economy would ‘collapse’ if plantation labor had the temerity to be paid wages.

    “You’ll have to stuff your pipe with lettuce!
    “You won’t be able to afford that cotton shirt on your back!”

    Etc etc etc – and, no doubt, the gullible *actually* believed the shills.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  226. BB753 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    OK, but take back your ignorant statement that Europe was inhabited by savage tribes until four centuries back. Your penance: a visit to the Chartres (12th century) and Borges (13th century) cathedrals in France.
    Your vaunted Chinamen didn’t even come close in terms of architecture and art, not to mention spirituality and music.
    Now tell me, who are the Chinese Aristotle and Archimedes?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  227. TTSSYF says:
    @ATBOTL

    Who is or isn’t a Boomer is arbitrary designation; regardless, going with that classification — there are plenty of people between 40 and late 50s who technically are not Boomers but are part of the system and have been for years. There are enough of them and have been, for over a decade, to have changed things if they/you wanted. Instead, your generation and the one coming up behind you seem to be doubling down on stupid. Don’t blame anyone over 60 (“Boomers”) for the current state of affairs when your generation is rallying behind the likes of the desiccated Biden or the demonstrably failed Leftism of Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg and can’t get enough of the Squabs.

  228. @Corn

    The polygamy vs monogamy vs other arrangements debate is a very serious one with long-term consequences for any society. There are serious arguments on all sides that merit discussion.

    Bottom line–women _cannot_ be allowed in the room when the discussion is held.

    They would choose “whatever I want, whenever I want, as many alphas as I want” every time.

    • Disagree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  229. @Corn

    The NY Times also did an article about meat packing plants wages being stagnant for 30 years due to immigrants and how they destroyed the unions.

    Many jobs paid more in 1980 than today. My Father was a teamster , earning $15 an hour in 1980 with 2 weeks paid vacation , full health care coverage etc.. He earned about $34,000 per year in 1980 which would be 95,000 in 2015 dollars. After 20 years he qualified for a pension. My father passed away , my mother has been collecting his pension for the last decade.

    Today warehouse workers earn $14 per hour, no over-Time is available, workers are usually restricted to 35 hours to avoid getting benefits and no pension is available.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Jack D
  230. @Stebbing Heuer

    You think you’re living in a country. They think you and everyone like you is a worker on their plantation.

    That’s it? And so it always was and always will be? Are you not seeking to perpetuate this situation?

    Counterinsurgency

  231. @bomag

    None of which are remotely eugenic.

  232. getaclue says:
    @peterike

    They “understand” fine. They are paid propagandists and liars.

  233. @Daniel H

    Which is why a multi-party system is long overdue.

    Maybe Justin Amash is a harbinger of things to come?

  234. @Paleo Liberal

    “If you read the great thinkers of the 17th Century, which was at one of the greatest times of scientific expansion of any time and place in history, you would know they considered Chinese science and technology to be superior.”

    If the “great thinkers” did indeed say that, it’s because they were speaking from ignorance. The Chinese still believed the earth was flat until Europeans explained to them differently, over 1800 years after the Greeks figured out how to calculate its circumference. Obviously the notion of a heliocentric solar system was unknown to China as well. European mathematics was already far advanced from anything in China, as were those inventions we “copied”, despite having a centuries head start in developing gunpowder weapons, China imported cannons and handguns from Europe, not the other way around—which should indicate their relative quality. Bluntly, Europeans had nothing to learn from China by the time they came into direct contact.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  235. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corn

    I’d be a loser in a polygamous sexual market.

    Well, it may actually be a market: (nsfw)

    [MORE]

  236. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    “Made in China” chicken. What could go wrong?

    They sell frozen tuna from China that always remain a bright pink – the color never fades. What’s the secret? They gas the fillets with carbon monoxide that bonds to the hemoglobin so it never oxidizes. The fish could be totally spoiled and it will still look like you pulled it out of the water 5 minutes ago.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  237. @JoeMac

    Do you think magicians can really turn a glass of water into a dove, or a bunch of flowers? How can you spot a sleight of hand there, and yet miss the more brazen deception of

    such a shift does not seem to have a significant effect on their relative wages

    Do these Cato Institute studies (conducted by nebbish mohel-chewed relatives of think-tank higher-ups, rather than Toltec peasants, for some inexplicable reason) ever concern themselves with people who aren’t earning wages, their numbers, and the number of people out of the labor force that wouldn’t be and wouldn’t have been– if we weren’t importing all of Central America, just because you feel a deep pang of inferiority when some working-class schlubwhite (who- GASP- hasn’t ever taken a seminar in Homosex Studies!) unclogs your toilet?

  238. @Stebbing Heuer

    Sierra Hotel:

    Please disregard my previous comment.

    Your post sounds remarkably like a middle manager dressing down a subordinate for saying something that is not PC. You are neither, which makes you a fool.

    Counterinsurgency

  239. @BB753

    I didn’t say all of Europe was inhabited by primitive tribes until 4 centuries ago. I said large sections of Europe were inhabited by barbarian tribes at times during the Common Era, including the Goths, the Visigoths, etc. More recently the Sami in northern Scandinavia were not particularly modern until a relatively short time ago.

    As far as Archimedes and Aristotle, those were before the Common Era. Around 500 BCE, give or take a few centuries, there were a rash of great thinkers in Athens, but also in a city in India (the Buddha among others) and in China. China had a number of great philosophers, the most famous being the Master Kung (Confucius) and the Old Master (Lao Tzu), who founded the Confucian and Taoist schools respectively. There was also the Legalist school, which gave rise to the Civil Service examinations. China instituted the Civil Service examinations during the Han Dynasty, about 2000 years ago.

    As far as art, architecture and spirituality, you merely show you know nothing about any of those. For example, perhaps the greatest artist in the history of the planet was Fan Kuan, who lived a very short life from 990-1020 CE. Fan and his contemporaries Li Cheng and Guan Tong, the Three Great Artists of the Song Dynasty, produced the greatest art the world has ever seen. Like I said in an earlier post, I have had the pleasure of visiting the Imperial Palace Museum in Taipei on several occasions, and I got to see some of the originals of the great Song Dynasty paintings. Far superior to anything the West was doing at the time.

    Architecture? Sorry, but the cathedrals with their flying buttresses were not as sophisticated as one might think. I will say the Roman Empire produced some of the most sophisticated architecture of its time, because the Roman engineers were among the best in the world at the time so the Roman structures were structurally sound and often ingenious. The Chinese were certainly no slouches, building quite a few great palaces, temples, etc which have stood the test of time. Not to mention the greatest engineering feat of pre-modern times, the Great Wall.

    Music? Different people like different types of music. As I mentioned in a previous post, Chinese music was more intricate and sophisticated than Western music until at least the time of Bach. I’ve heard traditional Chinese music. I’ve heard Gregorian chants. Sorry, the Chinese music was more sophisticated.

    One could argue that the finest music ever written was written by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc up to Stravinsky. As far as popular music goes, I will gladly state that the Beatles, the Doors, The Beach Boys, the Mothers, Jimi Hendrix, etc wrote music far superior to the best Chinese music of the time, with such catchy lyrics as “Da Dao MeiDiGuoJuYi”. (“Destroy American Hegonomy”). But, sad to say, for most of the past few thousand years China had superior music.

  240. @Paleo Liberal

    I made a mistake in this last post.

    The museum in Taipei is the National Palace Museum.

    I have to say, the second best art museum I have ever visited is the Louvre in Paris. The collection in the Louvre can’t match the National Palace Museum.

  241. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:

    Just out of interest; Just how do the Japanese staff their chicken plants and allied unskilled industries?

  242. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D

    Rising wages have nothing to do with automated check-out stations. This is typical of the lying done by business. There is no wage that can compete with a machine that once purchased only requires a little bit of electricity and monthly maintenance.

    The companies make up this lie that they will need to lay off the counter staff because they cannot afford it in order to keep the press repeating this nonsense that we need wages so low that their employees also qualify for food stamps.

    If a business can only stay in business if it’s employees are on welfare then the business should go under.

  243. Jack D says:

    The Chinese were certainly no slouches, building quite a few great palaces, temples, etc which have stood the test of time.

    This is literally not true. For whatever reason, the Chinese preferred to build in wood, even their greatest palaces and temples. At best, these are like the Ship of Theseus, where every single board and nail has been replaced as it rotted and yet it’s the same temple. At worst, it’s like the Temple of Heaven in Beijing, which was struck by lightning and burnt to the ground in 1889. They built it back exactly the same (with timbers from Washington) but it’s not the original. The Chinese have a different concept of “original” than we do.

  244. MarkinLA says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    If you read the great thinkers of the 17th Century, which was at one of the greatest times of scientific expansion of any time and place in history, you would know they considered Chinese science and technology to be superior.

    Then why aren’t the names of these great scientists common knowledge in every math and science textbook? Why are units of measurement all given European names. Modern science was invented in Europe. Sure China had it’s geniuses and more than a few Chinese were probably the smartest living man in the world, yet very little seems to have extended to present day.

    Europe had the first university in 1088 (Bologna) which spread throughout Europe. That continuity of learning was why the Renaissance happened in Europe and not China.

    • Agree: BB753
  245. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Capitalism has an amazing ability to re-route around obstacles but the capability is not infinite. Higher labor costs have real world consequences that can’t just be hand waved away. Of course the world will not end but it does change the mix of goods and services that are available and affordable. Sometimes these are merely luxury goods and it’s hard to be be sympathetic to the rich guy who has to cut down on his snuff consumption but other times goods that were once staple goods become unaffordable luxuries or completely unavailable. This is not to say that this should be the tail that wags the dog but those who completely dismiss such concerns are not being honest either.

  246. MarkinLA says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Sorry, but the cathedrals with their flying buttresses were not as sophisticated as one might think

    Wrong, what makes them architechturally significant is not the flying buttresses but the height of the ceilings and the large distances spanned. The flying buttresses were a solution to the problem of how to build something with such high ceilings.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  247. BB753 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Comparing the Aristotelian encyclopedic body of knowledge to the scribblings of Confucius and Lao Tze is insulting. Not to mention the Stoics and Epicurean schools which were active during your funny common era time reference.
    For your interest, the Western Roman empire fell in 476 common era (A.D. for those of us traditional – minded), and the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) fell in 1453, AD. By that time, the Western part of Europe was as developed as China, boasting universities, scientific enquiry, and building structures the Chinese could only dream of. Not to mention the arts, literature, etc. France, Venetia, Florence, the Holy Roman Empire, Castille, Aragon, Portugal, Holland, were superpowers, and England was no slouch.
    Stop reading Chinese communist propaganda and start educating yourself about your own culture!

  248. Jack D says:
    @Prodigal son

    If warehouse workers earned $95K per year plus pension and healthcare, how could Jeff Bezos afford a private island? Please, have pity. Think of the billionaires.

  249. Jack D says:
    @Prodigal son

    Seriously, even if not a single immigrant had been let in, the situation in 1980 was not going to be permanent. Immigration was just one of many factors that changed the balance of power between workers and corporations. Industrial jobs were eliminated due to automation and imports. The power of the unions was broken as corporations moved south. The union movement discredited itself with corruption. More women came into the workforce and the population grew by natural increase. Information technology gave corporations an advantage. Etc. Your father’s situation was a kind of high water mark for the working man. Even then, only a small % of unionized blue collar workers made that kind of $. Average wages in 1989 were $12,500 – he was earning almost triple the average. He hit the jackpot in the contest for blue collar jobs. It’s like asking why it isn’t ALWAYS 70 and sunny in Boston in January because it was that way once.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  250. @Herbert West

    As I have said, over and over again, the West went through a period of scientific and cultural advancement starting soon after the Mongol Hordes and the Black Death had passed which was unprecedented in human history, and which continues to this day.

    What I said is that for most of the past 2000 years, China was more advanced scientifically and culturally than the West.

    It would be foolish to ignore that much of the mathematical and scientific knowledge came from points east. The great advances would not have been possible without algebra from the Arabs, some of which the Arabs had borrowed from India, or gunpowder from China.

    Of course, the greatest contribution of Westerners to science and technology was the Scientific Method. It seems obvious to scientists these says, but it was truly revolutionary. It is also clear whenever I get into any discussions dealing with science on this forum that few non-scientists have a clue what it really means.

    As for the idea that once we took everything we could learn from the Chinese we had nothing to learn from the Chinese, that is tautological but still incorrect. We are still learning from pre-modern Chinese knowledge. For example, acupuncture is a very effective treatment for some ailments. My dog couldn’t walk until we took him to a veterinary acupuncturist. Now he can run. As I said in earlier posts, acupuncture, reflexology and other treatments were centuries ahead of the leeches and bleeding used by Western medicine until recently. The Germ Theory is less than 200 years old. Western medicine could not, and did not, surpass Chinese medicine until that time. I think once vaccines became common in the West we passed China by miles. Even so, many of the most important vaccines are only decades old.

    It is clear that the folks arguing with me about the achievements of Chinese science and technology and culture simply have no idea about anything the Chinese did over the past few thousand years. In some cases, not even modern Chinese history. For example, one poster said I was spouting ChiCom propaganda because I referred to artwork in the National Palace Museum in Taipei. Which was set up by Chiang Kai-Shek and his followers. Uh, yeah, I guess if you think the National Palace Museum is a Communist museum, it shows a very deep understanding of China/s

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @MarkinLA
  251. Logan says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I’ve read the other responses to this comment and both sides have good points.

    For most of human history the Chinese led in civilization and technology, in most areas. Architecture was of course a great exception. Nothing comparable to medieval cathedrals in China.

    China seems to have developed many of the great inventions (stirrup, gunpowder, compass, printing, etc.). But they were never able to use them anywhere nearly as effectively as Europeans.

    It was Europeans who developed truly heavy cavalry using stirrups and then made that development obsolete with artillery and volley fire musketry.

    It was Europeans who used the compass to explore the world and colonize it. The Ming were far ahead in the early 1500s but gave up such efforts entirely. Which is kind of my point.

    Europeans took printing as invented (kind of) by the Chinese and used it to launch an intellectual revolution. The Chinese had it, but never exploited it effectively.

    All things considered, I think the Chinese were well ahead till the 1500s, but from what I’ve been able to deduce their inventiveness then fell off a cliff, not only by comparison with the explosive developments in Europe, but even compared to their own previous record. I have no idea why this happened.

    Although possibly here’s a partial answer.

    If you read the great thinkers of the 17th Century, which was at one of the greatest times of scientific expansion of any time and place in history, you would know they considered Chinese science and technology to be superior.

    Never crossed the mind of any Chinese of the time that they had anything at all to learn from any other people. Not a wise attitude.

  252. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    One thing we could learn from the Chinese is the danger of being arrogant. The Chinese were once the arrogant ones – their attitude was that they had the superior civilization and people from the West were just another type of barbarian from whom nothing could be learned. What could you learn from such smelly uncivilized people with their strange food, clothing and drink? It was obvious that China was the advanced civilization and these people were primitive who knew nothing of culture and the arts, etc. They had crude superstitious beliefs and knew nothing of about proper objects of worship.

    Then one day the gun boats showed up and began firing and the Chinese realized that they had no defenses and they were in deep shit from the barbarians. How was that even possible? How did we get to this point? But by then it was too late.

    • Agree: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Paleo Liberal
  253. Logan says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    It is important to note that the Whig/Democrat disagreements were not about immigration, they were about naturalization.

    There were almost no restrictions at all on immigration, as opposed to naturalization, until quite late in the 19th century. Long after the Whigs imploded over slavery.

  254. Logan says:
    @Jack D

    Even then they consoled themselves for too long with the notion that while these southern barbarians might have learned a few tricks technologically, they were far behind China in “true civilization.”

    Compare and contrast the Chinese and Japanese responses to the realization they’d fallen far behind the West.

    The Chinese simply denied the fact for most of a century.

    The Japanese faced the truth and did something about it. Not that all their choices as to what to copy from the West were wise ones. Imperialistic expansionism, for instance, didn’t work out all that well for them.

  255. Irene says:

    To add insult to injury, homes ownership will be out of reach and they will be renting from the same exploiter class.

    • Agree: byrresheim
  256. @Jack D

    JackD, this is exactly the point I am hoping to make. To say I agree with this 100% doesn’t even begin to show how important I think this point is.

    The fact of the matter is this:
    On the Chinese Calendar, this is the year 4717. That dates from when the Yellow Emperor ascended the throne. Europeans were primitive tribes at that point, as was most of the planet. The only other civilizations were in India, the Middle East and Egypt. It was about 2000+ years later when civilization hit Athens, and even that was only a very small part of Europe, and in many ways was an offshoot of Middle Eastern and North African civilizations.

    China had about 1/4 the population of the earth. The average IQ is about 105, or higher than any other major group of people. They had a 2000+ year head start on the Europeans. They fell asleep at the wheel, and the West took over.

    The first Chinese leader to really have a plan to take things back was Mao, and he was as short sighted and arrogant as his predecessors. It wasn’t until Mao died that China could start a REAL plan for world domination.

    What did the Chinese do?
    1. They sent as many Chinese abroad to study as possible, to get the Western knowledge.
    2. They invited Western scholars into China to teach. (My father taught in China on a Fulbright Fellowship in the early 1980s).
    3. Massive amounts of money spent on science research. I once went to the shipping floor of a company in the US that made scientific instruments. Every single shipment was to China.
    4. Trade policies designed for an imbalance of trade, to increased the industrial capacity of China.
    5. Monopolies on certain things, such as rare earth metals. They are now trying for a monopoly iin 5G technology.
    6. Intellectual property theft. Believe it or not, two different Chinese immigrants who set up software companies in the US told me they would ONLY hire Americans, and NEVER Chinese, because they knew they could trust the Americans not to steal their intellectual property.

    We are now a little over 40 years into the Chinese plan for world domination. Until recently, that was a taboo subject in American politics. Businessmen run our country, businessmen look for their quarterly profits, and a master plan for world domination hurts the quarterly profits. In 2016 both Trump and Sanders finally addressed the issue.

    I think Trump made a number of both strategic and tactical errors in his dealings with the Chinese.
    His biggest strategic errors were (1) refusing to work with Sanders when Sanders offered to work with him, and (2) not working hard enough to gain the support of American trade unions.

    Why were those strategic errors so costly?

    The Chinese are playing a long game. American politics is a short game. The Chinese know that a trade war with the US would hurt China more than the US. The Chinese are betting that the trade war will hurt Trump’s popularity, and then the American voters will turn out Trump. I think the Chinese are hoping for Biden.

    If Trump had the support of the anti-globalist wing of the Democratic Party, and of the trade unions, then it would be far easier to wage a trade war with China. The Chinese would know that if Trump lost, they would have to deal with Sanders or Warren or some other anti-globalist who would continue the trade war.

    Note that the Chinese have specifically targeted the Midwest in the trade war. The Chinese are betting that if they can cause pain to the Midwest, then Trump will be gone.

  257. Daniel H says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I said large sections of Europe were inhabited by barbarian tribes at times during the Common Era,

    Knock it with this Common Era bullshit. None of us here feel the need to kiss the broad backside of Jewish sensitivities, presumptions and insecurities.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  258. @Daniel H

    The post I replied to specifically said “common era”. I was replying to that. Too bad if it offends your Nazi sensibilities. Oh, the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!

    • Replies: @Daniel H
  259. MarkinLA says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    For example, acupuncture is a very effective treatment for some ailments.

    Everybody that tried acupuncture, myself included, never saw any improvement. Chinese medicine is little more than shamanism since it depends mostly on the placebo effect. Sure western medicine was in a bad state in the middle ages but things like surgeries and other advanced treatments existed in antiquity and were lost. I haven’t heard of surgery being a significant part of Chinese medicine like it is for modern medicine. With all their advanced technology, why didn’t that become part of their medicine?

    Something is lacking in Chinese culture as all their brilliant moments seem to have died and never been developed further. You could go back to any great civilization and point to some place in time when that society was at the pinnacle of science and technology in the region but the civilization collapsed and there is nothing left of it but speculation by historians. Of all the places in the world China should have been the place least likely for that to occur yet it seems to be a characteristic of China.

  260. Daniel H says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Deploying an inept phrase as “Common Era” is as stupid (and micro-aggressive) as deploying latinx, they, herstory, chairperson, etc……..

    It’s a small thing, but not insignificant.

    Do you really have to go full Nazi on me?

    • Agree: Herbert West
  261. TTSSYF says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    An IQ of 105 vs. 100 is not that big a deal. All other things being equal, you probably wouldn’t notice any difference in the work place between a person with an IQ of 105 vs. one with an IQ of 100. Other factors would come into play as to how successful the person was (i.e., good work ethic, honesty, good-naturedness, etc.). The difference lies in the spread of the bell curves; i.e., the Chinese have a greater percentage of their populations centered around 105 than Americans do around a center of 100.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  262. Corvinus says:

    Let’s get this straight. The President…is going to order…U.S. companies…to immediately end…all ties to China…with the President choosing…who U.S. companies…are able to sell to.

    Is that not “socialist”?

  263. Corvinus says:
    @Justvisiting

    “Bottom line–women _cannot_ be allowed in the room when the discussion is held.”

    According to Who/Whom?

    “They would choose “whatever I want, whenever I want, as many alphas as I want” every time.”

    You sound bitter, gamma.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Justvisiting
  264. BB753 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    ” It was about 2000+ years later when civilization hit Athens, and even that was only a very small part of Europe, and in many ways was an offshoot of Middle Eastern and North African civilizations.”

    Have you ever heard about the Minoan (2700 BC) and Mycenaean Civilizations (1600 BC). Perhaps you should educate yourself about Western Civilization, which is obviously foreign to you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenaean_Greece

    Do you realize that historical data are not accurate? Anyway, let’s do some math: 2,700 +2, 019= 4,719 Before Present Time for the Minoans. It beats the ascent of your precious Yellow Emperor by two years (4717, Chinese calendar).
    My penance this time for your ignorance is to visit the palace of Knossos in Crete. On your dime and barefoot.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  265. MarkinLA says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    It seems the Yellow Emperor is really just a myth. In your list of ancient civilizations, you left out the Minoans.

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/history/chinese-and-taiwanese-history-biographies/yellow-emperor

  266. Kronos says:
    @Jack D

    Don’t forget the rising US dollar. It made things super cheap to buy abroad.

  267. Kronos says:
    @TTSSYF

    IQ: 105

    IQ: 95

    IQ: 85

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  268. @MarkinLA

    Agree that the flying buttresses made the high ceilings and large spanned distances possible. They also did something else that was very important: they made cathedral windows possible.

    These windows depend for their effect on large surface areas and on sunlight shining through them. The flying buttresses made it possible to have both high ceilings and large spanned distances possible. A domed or arched roof produces “side thrust”, a force parallel to the ground. That force tends to knock over the walls. Roman and Byzantine stone structures with arched roofs contained side thrust with very thick walls. These walls also kept the structures’ interior temperatures at a comfortable level most times of year. However, the thick walls meant no sunshine through the vert small windows, which were in what amounted to tunnels through the wall.

    The flying buttresses amounted to towers that supported the roof. The buttresses are thick, but only in the direction of the roof’s side thrust, so that windows can be put into the spaced between the buttresses. Nice solution to an age old religious architecture puzzle: how do you make a big open space for the congregation, one not interrupted by pillars and not in semi-gloom and not a budget buster that requires Imperial funding for its construction (as the Hagia Sophia did). [1]

    Medieval construction guilds did astonishing things with stone. In some of the cathedrals, interior columns are so thin that they are visibly bent by compression force. One doesn’t usually think of stone as bending (except over geological time), and the architect probably had a close call with that pillar, but there it is.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] Gordon.
    _Structures_
    Get the hardback if you can find it, the pictures are much better.

    • Agree: jim jones
  269. @Paleo Liberal

    Suggest you (and anybody else interested in this topic) read:
    William H. McNeil
    _A World History_
    Get the hardback if you can.

    McNeil even managed to predict our current problems, at least in general terms. One of the few who did.

    Counterinsurgency

  270. KL says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Immigrants hurt employment of poor, of low-skilled U.S. workers, largely African-Americans. By lowering unskilled wages, they lower the cost of golf course landscaping, housing construction, and baseball stadium cleaning. In other words, they create consumer surplus for educated white guys.

    Is @Steve Sailer arguing against his own economic self-interest to favor poor African-Americans over poor Mexicans?

  271. TTSSYF says:
    @Kronos

    That is about as stupid and irrelevant a reply as one could imagine…probably comes from the left-side of the bell curve.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  272. @Massimo Heitor

    Wait until the “downside” you so airily describe/dismiss has you landing on your ass on the sidewalk when you are inevitably replaced by a (dot) Indian who is willing to work much harder for much less. You’ll discover rather quickly how easy it is to replace tech drones such as yourself, especially as systems are all but becoming self-sufficient in effectively running themselves. Apart from that, your arrogance is quite amusing.

  273. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    What would happen if we effectively cut off immigration:
    — A bunch of Americans would be employed at the much higher wages required to get Americans to pluck chickens.

    The problem is, AnotherDad, that many Americans are lazy and don’t want to work these jobs, even at supposedly “higher wages.”

    • Replies: @Herbert West
  274. Anony_LOL says:
    @MarkinLA

    A wonderful retort that well illustrates the fallacy of extrapolating simple toy models beyond their limits.

  275. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Gammas need loving too.

    More importantly, civilization depend on a mix of alphas, betas and gammas breeding.
    Otherwise, all alphas doing the seminating gives you Chechnya.

    We should weed out the stupid, antisocial, criminal, and those with defects that can be passed on.
    Humans are a herd animal like any other and happiness comes from health, individually and collectively. However we can do it humanely. We can provide decent lives for most people.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  276. @Jack D

    The Vietnamese are complaining the China is labeling some stuff made in China “Made in Vietnam” to escape tariffs.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/06/10/vietnam-alleges-china-faking-made-vietnam-skirt-us-tariffs/1408023001/

  277. @Corvinus

    I have never been bitter about anything–we are speaking different languages–which is exactly my point.

  278. The class war was not lost because it was never waged : the American worker always bought the Calvinist idea he was to be among the privileged of this world relatively to all other peoples of the Earth in exchange for his siding with the owners of big fortunes against the rest of humanity, as workers more qualified than elsewhere on earth but preferably as mercenaries. The American worker by setting foot on American soil renounced class war for individualism, in other words he betrayed, and as a result he got betrayed in his turn once as a useful voluntary idiot his date of utility had passed.

  279. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    The class war was not lost because it was never waged : the American worker always bought the Calvinist idea he was to be among the privileged of this world relatively to all other peoples of the Earth in exchange for his siding with the owners of big fortunes against the rest of humanity, as workers more qualified than elsewhere on earth but preferably as mercenaries. The American worker by setting foot on American soil renounced class war for individualism, in other words he betrayed, and as a result he got betrayed in his turn once as a useful voluntary idiot his date of utility had passed.

    My family of Eastern European Catholic rowhouse south Chicago steel mill, brick plant, and aircraft workers would call bullshit on that if anyone had the balls to tell that to them to their face.

  280. Kronos says:
    @TTSSYF

    Probably yes, but unfortunately not…

    When you work in manufacturing or agriculture you see quite a few people all over the IQ spectrum. I’ve met employees who fell for the silliest hacker scams imaginable.

  281. Kronos says:
    @BB753

    Oh relax, does it REALLY matter if the dates are off a little bit? China has remained a powerhouse for thousands of years. The Manchu’s and Opium Wars were important but relatively minor setbacks.

    Even when the dragon “fell asleep” in terms of technological and cultural stagnation, Napoleon noted:

    “China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will move the world.”

    Just imagine how often Western civilization (and the US for that matter) has fell off the wagon. True, before World War 1 Europe controlled 80 of the Earth’s land mass. But it wasn’t politically sustainable for very long. The Han Chinese have been in the game for a LONG time.

    • Replies: @BB753
  282. @Anonymous

    That’s actually not a problem unless you are a cheap, fat fuck who doesn’t want to pay more than $10 for the 4000 calories of fried chicken you eat every day, which is probable.

    I’ve never seen an American in danger of starving yet.

  283. BB753 says:

    The class war was lost after Reagan’s amnesty. Thanks, Ronnie!

  284. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “We should weed out the stupid, antisocial, criminal, and those with defects that can be passed on.”

    You just say that civilization depends on a “mix of alphas, betas, and gammas breeding”. Do not gammas according to the subscribers of the social-sexual hierarchy possess those undesirable traits? Seems to me you are being hypocritical. Moreover, who made you God regarding this “weeding out” process?

    “My family of Eastern European Catholic…”

    You have to go back.

  285. BB753 says:
    @Kronos

    ” The Han Chinese have been in the game for a LONG time.”

    So have Europeans. What’s your point?

    • Replies: @Kronos
  286. Richard B says:

    “Still, there are not enough to fill Miami’s relentless boomtown demand for workers.”

    What does it matter?

    Miami’s going to be under water in a few years anyway.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/miami-luxury-real-estate-market-home-sales-sea-levels-underwater-2019-3

    In their anxiety to destroy the host population of America globalists rarely think very carefully.

    That the Movers and Shakers today, our “Thought Leaders” are incapable of clear thinking and careful planning does not bode well for our future.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  287. Richard B says:
    @Richard B

    “That the Movers and Shakers today, our “Thought Leaders” are incapable of clear thinking and careful planning does not bode well for our future.”

    Or theirs.

  288. Kronos says:
    @BB753

    They’ve been able to manage a civilization in the tens of millions for thousands of years. It’s a much larger scale than any European model to date. (Adjusted for population growth.)

    • Replies: @BB753
  289. BB753 says:
    @Kronos

    Quantity over quality.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS