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The Capitol Hill Crime Wave: Liberals Getting Mugged in Reality
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Screenshot 2015-10-21 02.37.29

In the New York Times, veteran columnist Thomas B. Edsall writes:

Crimes Without Punishment?
OCT. 21, 2015

Thomas B. Edsall

Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., is one of the most liberal neighborhoods in the country. In 2012, President Obama won Ward 6, which includes Capitol Hill, with 87.3 percent of the vote.

The Hill has remained firmly Democratic even as African-Americans have moved out and white professionals have moved in. In 2000, Ward 6 was 64 percent African-American; by 2010, with gentrification rapidly increasing, the black population had fallen to 43 percent.

Over the past six months, the neighborhood, where the crime rate is surging, has become a case study in the conflict between those calling for more lenient policies toward criminals and those who see arrest, prosecution and jail as the most effective deterrents of crime.

Capitol Hill, where I live, is, in effect, a test case in the national debate over high incarceration rates, the elimination of mandatory sentencing, the decriminalization of lesser offenses, including drug possession, and President Obama’s recent decision to grant clemency to federal inmates convicted of nonviolent drug offenses.

Nationally, advocates of leniency appear to have gained the upper hand. Public figures from Hillary Clinton to Ta-Nehisi Coates, a recent recipient of a MacArthur Foundation “genius” grant, have argued that unnecessarily harsh sentencing has damaged the prospects of black men. …

Some prominent conservatives have also voiced support for sentencing reform. The organization Right on Crime – backed by Newt Gingrich, Grover Norquist and Jeb Bush — contends that prisons are not the solution for every type of offender. …

That may be what’s happening on the national level but locally, it gets complicated, especially in more liberal neighborhoods.

A 22.3 percent increase in violent crime over the past year on Capitol Hill is driving the debate. From mid-October 2013 to mid-October 2014, there were 298 such crimes: robberies, assaults with a deadly weapon, rape and murder. For the same period in 2014-2015, there were 364 such crimes, according to the Metropolitan District Police.

Conservatives believe increased violence stems from the reluctance of police officers to aggressively enforce the law in the wake of the rioting in Ferguson, Mo. in August, 2014 and in Baltimore last April after the deaths of Michael Brown and Freddie Gray — the so-called “Ferguson effect.”

Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging,” Holly O’Byrne, a paramedic, told The Washington Post, noting that “The drug is a game changer.”

The results of the spike in crime are reverberating across the Capitol Hill neighborhood. On the local listserv, newhilleast – an email network of residents who live within a few blocks of the United States Capitol — a single subject line crops up repeatedly: “DC’s Reign Of Terror.”

A small sampling of recent day-in, day-out neighborhood crime highlighted on the listserv includes a midafternoon sexual assault on a mother by an intruder who “violently beat and assaulted her while she worked from home”; a flash mob attack on a local 7-Eleven; and the videotaped beating of a 69-year-old man by a 19-year-old at a subway exit.

… The escalation in crime has revealed a split within the generally progressive community of Capitol Hill.

On one side are those demanding tougher arrest and prosecution policies: “The biggest problem is that prosecutors are not prosecuting,” said Denise Krepp in an interview. Krepp, a former Obama administration appointee and now an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, is especially angry about random assaults. (There are 299 Advisory Neighborhood Districts in the city and each one elects a commissioner.)

In the Oct. 1 issue of the Hill, a newspaper covering Congress and the surrounding area, Krepp wrote:

Every morning, neighbors greet each other as they walk their dogs or walk to the metro to get to work. Our small-town life was horribly disrupted when an elderly neighbor was hit by an individual a third of his age. It was 8 a.m., the sun was shining, and out of the blue he was clocked in the face. The police call this type of assault a “simple assault.” My neighbor sustained dark black bruises but no stitches were required.

In the interview, Krepp described her view of how laws should be enforced: “If you hit one of my residents, you are going to jail. You don’t get a free swing at someone.”

Capitol Hill is more or less the neighborhood where pundit Matthew Yglesias was the victim of two black males Polar Bear Hunting on 5/15/2011.

On the other side are those who believe that it is more important to address the social, racial and economic factors behind crime.

“I actually think we should care why these individuals are committing these crimes. If we don’t know why then how will we prevent it? In other words, we need to understand the cause not just focus on the symptom,” Ned Malone wrote on newhilleast.

Sarah A. Spurgeon posted a comment there that reflects the complexity of the issue of crime for many Hill residents:

These mostly juvenile offenders are engaging in violent crime because they can without any serious repercussions, plain and simple. While I agree we need to address deep rooted social issues, like economic inequality and institutional racism, that may be the fundamental source of these crimes, the more immediate reason they are engaging in violent crime is because the deterrent is so low. So yes, while we need to continue to invest in addressing social problems — and it should be noted that DC has many, many services and social programs that can be taken advantage of — there are more expedient and effective measures for this recent surge in violent crime. Our political leaders must have the courage to increase the immediate and sustained penalties for juveniles and others who engage in violent, criminal behavior. No, we cannot arrest our way out of this problem, but we can ensure there are meaningful consequences for those who are arrested. Currently, it appears that those who rob by force (i.e., via assault or with a gun) are released to their guardians and are never prosecuted.

Richard Lukas, another resident, takes a more aggressive posture on the listserv: “We are being terrorized by a small percentage of ‘irrational actors’.”

What can be done? “Nothing.” Public officials, Lukas argues,

are loathe to address publicly what we all know privately: There is a very active segment of marauding at-risk youths who find satisfaction from terrorizing people on a daily basis.

Daniel Chao, a Democratic congressional staffer and an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, made several points in an interview: “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.” He noted that poor people in public housing on the Hill are “living in constant fear of crime,” reluctant to report offenses because the person arrested is often back on the streets within hours. Chao believes the police “are doing everything they can, but they catch people and next day they are released.”

One of the more outspoken contributors to newhilleast is Margaret Holwill, a 40-year Hill resident who is angered by the fact that teenagers’ records are secret. She writes on the listserv that juvenile “records would certainly have affected the court being able to hold defendants pending trial. It would absolutely make a difference in any possible plea bargains. And sentences. It would get cold-blooded criminals off our streets.”

On the listserv, she voiced her disagreement with Ta-Nehisi Coates:

Oh, please. Ta-Nehisi Coates fixates on mass incarceration for which he blames the system but ignores the community members who simply walked away from responsibility for the children they sired or family members they could have influenced.

As I’ve been saying since the 2000s, the Democrats have their work cut out for them. Maintaining a Coalition of the Fringes isn’t easy, especially when the most colorful and entitled-feeling element in the coalition are African-Americans. The Democrats have benefited from positioning the Republicans as the White Party while stirring up anti-white animus. But the Democrats’ danger is becoming the Black Party. If you are an Asian, say, and you have to choose who to cast your lot with, the White Party or the Black Party, is your choice really that difficult?

The Democrats have benefited from the decline of the crime problem. But it’s recent explosion precisely in places where Democrats are pandering hardest to blacks — e.g., St. Louis, Baltimore, and Capitol Hill — indicates the problems Democrats will face in future decades keeping their black constituents from driving out their nonblack sympathizers.

 
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  1. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The case of one Kevin Sutherland, publically butchered to death, in a packed, passive metro train car, in a grotesque form of ‘inflight entertainment’ by one Jasper Spires, is apposite here.
    Sutherland, geeky milquetoast that he was, was her stereotypical, liberal, totem-pole worshipping Democrat young political staffer on the make.
    If you are at all interested, Sutherland’s twitter account is still extant, giving a ghostly insight into his beliefs and passions.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Anonymous

    That was a tragic case. I doubt politics was on his mind when he gasped his last breath but I wonder how his parents feel? Did their politics change any? I suspect not if it changed they'd probably argue for more government intervention & understanding.

    A few weeks after that a young Deloitte analyst was mowed down in a hail of bullets as he exited a cab near a Metro station. Got caught in a crossfire taking place in a nearby affordable housing complex.

    DC is kind of unique in that black criminality is spilling over to gentrified areas with increasing frequency. Should be interesting how things progress from here.

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He's still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @AndrewR, @ben tillman

    , @DCThrowback
    @Anonymous

    There were 10 people in the car, including Sutherland. Other than that, your take is accurate.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Anonymous

    There was also also a New York Times reporter who was murdered in DC several years ago: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/08/AR2006010801179_pf.html

  2. Edsall doesn’t mention him, but Rahm Emanuel, Chicago mayor and former Obama chief of staff, recently caused a stir by endorsing the Ferguson Effect as an explanation for crime trends in Chicago. He embodies Edsall’s thesis that there is a national/local disconnect on these issues.

    I’m not sure Ferguson has much to do with what’s going on in Chicago, however. 2015 just seems like a random fluctuation much like 2012 was. There’s frankly not much a mayor can do about it.

    • Replies: @Muse
    @timothy


    2015 just seems like a random fluctuation much like 2012 was. There’s frankly not much a mayor can do about it.
     
    Wrong!

    Fewer Cops, liberal policies such as reduced sentencing guidelines, lenient parole boards and judges have caused nightmare problems on Chicago's Northside. Looks just like DC.

    Read about it here: http://www.cwbchicago.com/
  3. If I were a cop in that particular area, I would spend my day at Dunkin Donuts. Let them write their little essays back and forth to one another, as if that will solve the problem. Unbelievable, how this mass insanity of early release and non prosecution of violent criminals has quickly taken over peoples psyche.

    My community is presently experiencing the highest rate of heroin overdoses in New York city and at the same time New York has led the way in less or no punishment and early release od drug convicted felons.

    Anyone know where Ta-Nehisi Coates’ lives. I am sure he is well protected.

    • Replies: @midtown
    @Jill

    It's my understanding that Coates is living in Paris now. (You might notice that Paris is not in Africa, by the way.) As for the criminal justice reform, there are aspects I could get behind, such as restoring the vote to felons since they have paid their time. But yeah, the early release stuff is so obviously going to be bad. Why can't liberals see it? It's times like these when I really do think that liberalism is a mental disorder.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Jill

    Coates lives in Paris now, 150 meters away from Simon Kuper.

  4. How any self-respecting white person can call themselves a Democrat is beyond me. The Republicans might not care about white people but at least they aren’t openly hostile to us and our safety.

  5. I’m going to make some popcorn and happily watch as the left literally starts murdering each other in celebration of their destruction of America.

  6. Assume that you have two teams.

    One way to win is you can score enough points to win and run a defensive strategy to prevent the other team from scoring as much, while running out the clock. The second way is to keep scoring points while doing an average job on preventing the other side from scoring, and assume that when the whistle blows, you are heavily favoured to win.

    To use a money analogy, you can either be careful with your money, or have a massive source of income.

    The Republicans are the ones playing a defensive game (my American friend tells me this is called _Prevent Defense_), while the Dems are going whole hog on scoring points.

    I see no way the current Republican party can win without structural changes to their party.

  7. While visiting my son in DC a few weeks ago, some of these scumbags broke into my wife’s car. Guess i shouldn’t be surprised. Back to the late 80s, I guess.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Anonymous


    Back to the late 80s, I guess.
     
    Well, it is Back to the Future Day.
  8. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Any *white person using the term “institutionalized racism” in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It’s ok for minorities to use it. Grievance posturing in support of your own tribe is healthy and normal. It’s posturing on behalf of other tribes against your own that’s worthy of black fists to white faces.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Anonymous

    Structural racism is a wonderful thing, because it can plug any gaps in your social theories. Rich black kids do worse in school than poor white kids? Middle class black kids joining gangs? Black teenagers being murdered in terrifying numbers by other black teenagers? Black cops just as inclined to beat suspects as white cops? Structural racism is the magic theory-spakle that can salvage your "it's all the fault of racist whites" theory.

    , @anonymous-antiskynetist
    @Anonymous

    As Steve is always making clear, it's "posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own" as tactics in a class war internal to white society: a civil war. The Yankee-Cowboy War, Carl Oglesby once called it.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    Any *white person using the term “institutionalized racism” in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It’s ok for minorities to use it.

     

    You might want to be a bit more careful and nuanced in your statements. The problem isn't that institutional racism isn't a real phenomenon; it's that it is something practiced not by Whites but against Whites.

    Replies: @Bob

  9. I must reluctantly say that you’re probably wrong, Steve.

    There is no bottom to that liberal ethno-masochism.

    Dead souls who believe in nothing have no motivation even to defend themselves.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Shouting Thomas

    With the True Believers there certainly is no bottom. But how many self-described "progressives" or Democrats truly believe in the Equality religion and how many are just going along because they've never really bothered to think critically about the prevailing "progressive" ideology? I think we are going to see a large number of non-ideologue lefties reading the writing on the wall. Besides the maniacally frenzied rate at which the SJW wing of the left has been picking up steam in recent years, there is also an increasing abundance of high quality non-leftoid writing that clearly details the absolute insanity of the left. It's becoming increasingly impossible to be a self-respecting white leftist.

    Or maybe this is wishful thinking...

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

  10. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging,” Holly O’Byrne, a paramedic, told The Washington Post, noting that “The drug is a game changer.”

    Over a hundred years ago people were saying that various drugs back then were putting blacks into wild manic rages. Nothing has changed since then. Nobody ever seems to learn anything but the wheel has to be re-invented every thirty years or so. The Coates faction wants special privileges to be accorded blacks and thus be given less incarceration because they realize blacks will never be able to alter their behavior so therefore the behavior should be accepted. Get mugged and robbed? Just deal with it and move on, like the Roman saying ‘When encountering the barbarians, if you value your life give them everything you have’. Nowadays you’re supposed to just give them your phone and wallet and get down on your hands and knees and beg them not to hurt you.

    • Replies: @Alice
    @anonymous

    Is there research on if it's literally true? The long term evolutionary adaptation to alcohol took place where, geographically? The fertile crescent? Not in sub saharan Africa, right?

    During the 90s, I knew a great number of people in college dorms who cooked their own crack. All men, of course. The whites and asians said it made them feel like their ego was the biggest it had ever felt. What happens when blacks feel that way?

    What if the blacks have no natural genetic defense to that feeling while other groups do have some?

    The qat chewing and dope smoking Muslims from Africa are another question...

    , @Luke Lea
    @anonymous


    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging . . .
     
    What they don't bother to tell you is that it is the reporters and editorial writers who are obviously taking these new drugs. How else explain Ferguson, Baltimore, etc..?
    , @pyrrhus
    @anonymous

    You beat me to it....There is always some trendy new excuse for the genetically violent nature of Africans, but nothing has changed.

  11. While I agree we need to address deep rooted social issues, like economic inequality and institutional racism, that may be the fundamental source of these crimes…

    It may be the source…but maybe not. I suppose it is a little glimmer of hope that they are not making it a categorical statement.

  12. Time for a review of Derb’s ‘The Talk’. All the kids I know wouldn’t even consider such behavior even if there were no consequences.

  13. “I actually think we should care why these individuals are committing these crimes. If we don’t know why then how will we prevent it? In other words, we need to understand the cause not just focus on the symptom,” Ned Malone wrote on newhilleast.

    Maybe Trayvon (who will be played by Ryan Gosling in the film) likes punching out elderly white people because he’s a violent racist, and maybe he knew he’d get away with it because he knows about the local de-policing, and because he knew he’d get a slap on the wrist if he did wind up caught.

    Because he’s a violent black bully (would the universe implode if a liberal used that term?) and black racist (ditto) who likes punching down on the elderly of other races.

    Maybe that’s it, Ned.

    Or maybe he did it because he loves watching effeminate white men ask “whhyyyyyyyy?”

    Daniel Chao, a Democratic congressional staffer and an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, made several points in an interview: “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.” He noted that poor people in public housing on the Hill are “living in constant fear of crime,” reluctant to report offenses because the person arrested is often back on the streets within hours. Chao believes the police “are doing everything they can, but they catch people and next day they are released.”

    Bla bla bla. When you can’t tell the truth, you lie instead. Gov’t can’t guarantee everyone a job. Gov’t can’t guarantee that everyone wants a job. What they can guarantee is that they’ll prosecute the people they catch committing violent crimes. Gov’t can handle providing deterrent; the “underlying causes,” not so much. But sure, go with learned helplessness Chao, it’s the Democrat Party way.

  14. n the interview, Krepp described her view of how laws should be enforced: “If you hit one of my residents, you are going to jail. You don’t get a free swing at someone.”

    The solution is right in front of you. What do you think the enforcement and jail sentence looks like a for a “racially motivated hate crime” assault?

  15. “…keeping their black constituents from driving out their nonblack sympathizers.”

    as the white population falls, as well as its relative political power, nonblacks will feel less of a pull towards the anti white party. as the power of the anti white party grows, nonblacks will feel more of a push to the white party.

  16. These cliches about ‘at risk’ youth are laughable save for the fact that the crimes they commit are no joke. These feral black youth are too ‘far gone’ to be redeemable by the time they reach puberty. They may have low IQs but they are smart enough to have figured out they have no future, that they are too stupid to hold any but the most menial job and, in their world, being a thug has more status than being a jerk with a low wage job. A $15 per hour minimum wage is not going to entice these guys to work at McDonalds when being a predator offers unlimited leisure time and black females are willing to share their bodies and welfare state benefits with these louts so they have no need to behave or work.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  17. Here’s a question though:

    How do the Republicans unit a coalition of:

    Asians, who prefer gun control and bigger government
    Evangelicals, who are a huge chunk of the Republican base and care deeply about the party upholding Christian values
    Traditionalist/rural Americans, who care deeply about having guns and limited government (some overlap between 2 and 3, obviously)

    For instance, who’s a Republican candidate that could unite a coalition of concerned Asians who aren’t sure if Hillary will sell out their interests to shield black criminals from consequence with the rest of the Republican base?

    Trump is the more forward-looking GOP candidate but I’m not sure his share of the electorate will stand up if Rubio can rally the traditional GOP base. In Rubio vs Clinton, where do these minority, non-black voters go?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Ian B.


    Asians, who prefer gun control and bigger government
     
    If that's what they want, they don't need the Republican Party, but Delta Air Lines, which inherited Northwest Orient's extensive route system to Asia. Home to Asia, I might add.
    , @Chris Mallory
    @Ian B.

    Why are you worried about Asians? They make up less than 5% of the US population, most of them are located in the deep blue states of California and Hawaii. They are a non-entity when it comes to national politics.

  18. Ylesias’s incident is not Capitol Hill – that would be Bloomingdale, which at the time was substantially less gentrified than the Hill. I used to live in the neighborhood to the east, which was not gentrified at the time (thus my ability to buy a home there) but now has the Union Market, Whole Foods, Trader Joe’s, and Harris Teeter. Prior to all that a group known as the Black Hebrews used to stand on the streetcorner two blocks from my house and spout racial hate speech all day long in terms that had they been whites directed at blacks would have resulted in civil rights marches.

    Prior to that I rented on Capitol Hill, which is a wonderful neighborhood despite the rather foolish perceptions of many of its residents on politics, race, and crime. There are still multiple subsidized housing projects in that neighborhood and I am sure the encroachment of more and more whites into what were black areas for a generation or more has engendered more resentment and opportunities for random crime.

    Most urban dwellers know that a lot of the random violence is directed at people who look like easy marks rather than those who aren’t afraid to look potential criminals in the eye and give the impression you belong on that sidewalk as much as them. Capitol Hill is filled with people that look like marks.

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    @Arclight

    "Most urban dwellers know that a lot of the random violence is directed at people who look like easy marks rather than those who aren’t afraid to look potential criminals in the eye and give the impression you belong on that sidewalk as much as them. Capitol Hill is filled with people that look like marks."

    This.

    If they think that you might actually snap and go off on them, they won't mess with you.

    Replies: @conatus

  19. I love that quote “an economy that does not perform for a group of people”…I am reminded of one of the satanic proverbs (or maybe it’s a commandment, anyway, a revered rule) : PASS THE BUCK. And there are various style points subsidiary to that, it’s never your fault, but if it has to be your fault there was a physical cause for mental derangement( i.e. Twinkie defense and many more)…then better it not be you even deranged but another person, and better another person who is not present and/or now dead, incapacitated, or otherwise poorly placed to counteract your narrative (“the absent are always at fault”)…and better than even an absent person is to blame an animal (“the dog ate my homework “) or an inanimate object (in one of Saki’s stories, I should probably google it, I want to say it’s “The Schartz-Metterklume Method”, anyways a woman blames the inanimate object “‘My luggage seems to have gone astray’. In actuality her luggage had behaved with perfect rectitude.”(fake quotes from memory)).
    Which returns us to “an economy that does not perform for a group of people”…look how assiduously “a group of people” are kept from receiving blame, not only are “a group of people” not named or specified, but we have found an inanimate object THE ECONOMY to take the blame for them. The personified economy is said to perform, at first I was thinking “how can it perform without consciousness?” but then I realized cars and computer programs are said to perform, but then I thought, cars and computer programs do the same things over and over, analogous to plays and songs, whereas the economy is more like a flux and you never see the same one twice…but they must make THE ECONOMY perform to give it free agency and guilty blame rather than bring up how a “group of people” perform lest some conclude ” a group of people sucks.” And no doubt Mister Chao didn’t even have to watch where he put his feet, his utterance came forth spontaneously, when you know how to dance it does not appear strenuous.

  20. @Shouting Thomas
    I must reluctantly say that you're probably wrong, Steve.

    There is no bottom to that liberal ethno-masochism.

    Dead souls who believe in nothing have no motivation even to defend themselves.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    With the True Believers there certainly is no bottom. But how many self-described “progressives” or Democrats truly believe in the Equality religion and how many are just going along because they’ve never really bothered to think critically about the prevailing “progressive” ideology? I think we are going to see a large number of non-ideologue lefties reading the writing on the wall. Besides the maniacally frenzied rate at which the SJW wing of the left has been picking up steam in recent years, there is also an increasing abundance of high quality non-leftoid writing that clearly details the absolute insanity of the left. It’s becoming increasingly impossible to be a self-respecting white leftist.

    Or maybe this is wishful thinking…

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    @AndrewR

    You be delusional, bro. The bar for "crazy" just gets higher and higher. I see intelligent formerly moderate democrats who are old enough to know better (i.e. remember the Cold War and the 1970s) seriously backing Bernie Sanders.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  21. There are two issues here that should be, but usually are not, kept separate. One is policing. The other is sentencing. Both common sense and the experience of cities like New York suggest that aggressive policing deters crime. On the other hand, it’s much less clear that criminals are deterred much by long prison sentences, as opposed to short prison sentences or alternative forms of punishment. And spending a bunch of time locked up with other criminals naturally breeds recidivism.

    Criminological research finds that criminals are deterred primarily by swiftness and certainty of punishment, and not by severity of punishment. In other words, if would-be criminals are confident that they’ll get caught and punished for committing crimes, they’re much less likely to commit crimes. But, would-be criminals being rather short-sighted (or, as economists would say, having a “high time preference”), knowing that they’ll be locked up for 10 years rather than 1 makes little difference to them.

    So it’s possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration, while at the same time support more aggressive policing and decry the effects of the riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, et al. and movements like Black Lives Matter in making police officers reticent to do their jobs.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Troy

    You are ignoring that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. While in prison or jail they can only hurt one another not innocent victims on the street. Whether or not imprisonment deters or rehabilitates we know for damned sure it at least temporarily reduces the capacity of prisoners to hurt those not in prison.

    Replies: @SEATAF

    , @AnotherDad
    @Troy



    So it’s possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration,
     
    You point about criminal incentives probably has some merit.

    But--Jus' sayin' has already said it, but it bears repeating--long sentences keep them off the street, prevent them from hurting citizens. It's almost certain that the substantial crime reduction that has followed the "lock 'em up" strategy, is mostly simply from keeping more thugs off the street.

    ~~~
    There's this constant chatter about all these "black men" being locked up, as if "black men" were some sort of interchangeable commodity, and if we just had jobs or something then they'd be fine. This is nonsense. I know a small smattering of black men and they are doing normal man stuff--holding down jobs, running small businesses, taking care of their families. They are not in prison ... because they aren't criminals!

    The reality is that most black men in prison are there because they are garbage--bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society. There's a certain percentage of men who are just born that way--or at least born leaning that way. It's probably a few percent of white men, it's a much higher percentage--10 or 15 or even 20%, depending on your bar--of black men, for evolutionary reasons that are pretty easy to discern.

    Personally, i prefer death or *exile*--you've proven you won't obey the rules of this society ... you're out!--for this garbage. But long incarceration while a thug is in his thug prime is the next best thing.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Troy

    The solution is to teach the ex-cons liberal arts, per Catherine Rampell:
    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/656952489036677120

    Replies: @Ed, @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman

  22. And now Republicans and Democrats, led by the trustworthy Charles Schumer, are pushing a bill to end mandatory minimum sentencing. The real problem with such a bill, besides the thousands of extra Americans who will die as a result, is that once the mandatory minimums are gone we will never, ever get the ever more extremist Democrats to go along with reinstating them when they prove to have worked. That’ll be a boon for Republican campaigns – “Democrats weak on crime, again!” – but it’ll suck for those victimized in the interim.

  23. Street black orcs assaulting the Leftoid Elite that seeks the extermination of my people kinda makes me smile.

    • Replies: @MKP
    @Anonymous

    Me too, and there ain't no "kinda" about it. Hit 'em hard, boys, and don't stop once they fall down.

    I'm tired of everyone playing for keeps except those who DON'T want to eradicate my family and my people.

  24. I have an Asian friend who hates Trump because he feels personally slighted by the Donald’s immigration comments. “He’s talking to ME” he insists. While that’s complete bullshit, and he’s a low information voter, I wouldn’t discount the immigration issue upsetting Asians. By the way, my friend also lives in a vibrantly diverse area and has had his crib robbed by the local Norwegians. But he feels they can be controlled. White nativists, maybe not so much.

  25. Video of Heather MacDonald’s recent testimony before Congress: http://goo.gl/uV4zKg

    Maybe Trump will appoint her to his administration.

  26. I wonder if the gentrification of city centers that the last 20 years of lower crime has allowed will help prevent a return to 1970s – 80s crime levels. I have no data to back this, but seems like the victims then were mostly blue collar blacks and whites, so politicians didn’t do as much. Now that the “beautiful people” in places like DC are facing a crime wave, will we see a quicker response?

    Out here in the suburban hinterlands, knuckle dragging reactionaries like myself don’t have to worry too much about crime; the police blotter in the local paper mainly consists of DUI arrests and people stupid enough to smoke weed in their cars. But our progressive overlords live in cities, and have spread out to former no go zones like Brooklyn. So they should have a greater interest is keeping crime down. DeBlasio made a point of bragging about crime being down in NYC this summer, and there have been lots of articles in the NYT about increasing crime. Is that an indication things won’t be allowed to get out of hand?

  27. As I’ve been saying since the 2000s, the Democrats have their work cut out for them. Maintaining a Coalition of the Fringes isn’t easy, especially when the most colorful and entitled-feeling element in the coalition are African-Americans.

    This is what Hispanics are for. Once the Cultural Marxist party can win without an energized black community, they are going to rapidly lose interest in black issues. Affirmative Action won’t go away. What will go away is giving a long, attentive hearing to Ta’s blathering.

  28. Disingenuous much? One can have the same discussion (societal factors, the right sentencing, treatment of juveniles) about violent crime, of course, but it seems to me that Edsall is misrepresenting the reform movement.

    Just goes to show that old white men have all the same fears and prejudices no matter their political leanings.

  29. @Anonymous
    The case of one Kevin Sutherland, publically butchered to death, in a packed, passive metro train car, in a grotesque form of 'inflight entertainment' by one Jasper Spires, is apposite here.
    Sutherland, geeky milquetoast that he was, was her stereotypical, liberal, totem-pole worshipping Democrat young political staffer on the make.
    If you are at all interested, Sutherland's twitter account is still extant, giving a ghostly insight into his beliefs and passions.

    Replies: @Ed, @DCThrowback, @Dave Pinsen

    That was a tragic case. I doubt politics was on his mind when he gasped his last breath but I wonder how his parents feel? Did their politics change any? I suspect not if it changed they’d probably argue for more government intervention & understanding.

    A few weeks after that a young Deloitte analyst was mowed down in a hail of bullets as he exited a cab near a Metro station. Got caught in a crossfire taking place in a nearby affordable housing complex.

    DC is kind of unique in that black criminality is spilling over to gentrified areas with increasing frequency. Should be interesting how things progress from here.

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He’s still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Ed

    If that's not evidence that cultural marxism is a mental disorder, IDK what is

    , @AndrewR
    @Ed

    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/19/what_i_learned_from_getting_shot/

    Wow... Exactly what you'd expect from a self-hating white almost murdered by black yoofs for nothing.

    Mental illness is the only way to describe it.

    , @ben tillman
    @Ed


    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He’s still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.
     
    I think it's more likely that (like Yglesias) he's a Leftist, not a liberal. Big difference.
  30. Just this morning on WBUR (Boston University’s NPR news radio station) the chief justice of the Mass. Supreme Court was lauded for once again mouthing that standard liberal misunderstanding of cause and effect which goes something as follows:

    “For thirty years we have had mandatory minimum jail sentences. As a result many violent offenders are currently imprisoned. Just coincidentally, during that same period of time violent crime rates have been declining. Now violent crime rates are approaching record lows. Since they are it’s time to eliminate mandatory minimum sentences and get those violent offenders back out on the street again.”

    How can one possibly explain to someone this devoid of common sense that there is a flaw in his reasoning? The simple answer is one can’t. Until such a person is nearly beaten to death or actually killed by the thugs he wants to hug, he will not get it. There’s an e.e. cummings poem to this effect about a young American who finally does get it just as he’s killed in WW II by a Japanese bomb made with scrap metal from the old Chicago El.

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    The old saw is "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged," but modern liberals are so delusional I don't think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.

    It's an interesting intellectual dynamic. Orwell talked about changing language to eliminate the ability to think thoughts contrary to INGSOC. Modern progressives have tied up so much of their self-image in being opposed to certain attitudes that they can't CrimeThink even when confronted with direct and painful personal experience. No change to the language needed, just some stroking of the vanity.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Harry Baldwin

  31. @Anonymous
    The case of one Kevin Sutherland, publically butchered to death, in a packed, passive metro train car, in a grotesque form of 'inflight entertainment' by one Jasper Spires, is apposite here.
    Sutherland, geeky milquetoast that he was, was her stereotypical, liberal, totem-pole worshipping Democrat young political staffer on the make.
    If you are at all interested, Sutherland's twitter account is still extant, giving a ghostly insight into his beliefs and passions.

    Replies: @Ed, @DCThrowback, @Dave Pinsen

    There were 10 people in the car, including Sutherland. Other than that, your take is accurate.

  32. This was an encouraging article. All white progressives deserve to be violently assaulted by blacks. It’s cosmic justice.

  33. There is a very active segment of marauding at-risk youths who find satisfaction from terrorizing people on a daily basis.

    Funny how it’s still the “youths” that are “at risk”.

  34. From 1932 to 1968 the Democrats were able to keep white segregationists and blacks together in 1 party. To keep guilty white liberals and blacks together in 1 party is a much easier task.

  35. The organization Right on Crime – backed by Newt Gingrich, Grover Norquist and Jeb Bush —

    Okay, that there tells me everything I need to know.

    Conservatives believe increased violence stems from the reluctance of police officers to aggressively enforce the law in the wake of the rioting in Ferguson, Mo. in August, 2014. . .

    I think it was less the rioting itself than the realization that government was on the side of the rioters.

    Krepp, a former Obama administration appointee and now an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, is especially angry about random assaults.

    Random: a term used by liberals to describe crimes in which a black expresses his hatred of whites by picking out one at random to assault or murder.

    There is a very active segment of marauding at-risk youths

    These youths are not particularlly “at risk.” It’s the white people they encounter who are at risk.

    “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.”

    Perhaps it would help the at-risk youths if having been arrested for randomly assaulting whites gave them points toward hiring, like being a veteran.

    • Replies: @e
    @Harry Baldwin

    “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.”

    As one commenter pointed out, yeah, sure, lack of jobs...you mean the unfilled service sector jobs in DC that the libs say "immigrants" rush to fill?

    Isn't it funny how the excuse makers for these thugs, faced with such a retort, add "jobs WITH A FUTURE"? Entry level, service sector jobs are okay for whites but NOT for these vibrant youth.

  36. If you are an Asian, say, and you have to choose who to cast your lot with, the White Party or the Black Party, is your choice really that difficult?

    Those in the USA who control the apparatus of socialization (a diffuse group spread across fields like education, entertainment, media; not a single cabal) have the deck stacked. They train young people in the doctrines of White Moral Inferiority and Black Moral Superiority. Their power seems as strong as ever right now. If and only if the power of this apparatus falters and fails can what you say come to pass.

    This is why immigrants tend to assimilate more to Black norms than White ones. How many Asians are into Hip-Hop culture vs. Country Music culture?

    So it was that Asians, and every other Nonwhite group, voted by such a lopsided margin for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

    • Replies: @NickG
    @Hail

    ...and yes, my stuff is full of typos!

  37. This is just an illustration of how grotesque the entire argument is. Whether 298 violent crimes in the last year, or 364 violent crimes in the last year: that much crime in that little space is utter collapse of civilization.

    I coincidentally just finished a run through my neighborhood, roughly the size of the Capitol Hill District, crisscrossing it back and forth for about 2 1/2 miles. I’m not aware of a single violent crime in the entire neighborhood since I moved here (obviously the demographics and character of the neighborhood are quite different). This should be the norm: arguing how many hundreds of violent crimes are acceptable in that space (or that can be overlooked in the name of XXX political viewpoint) is simply insane. The Overton Window on this issue is so skewed, it is simply preposterous to even discuss it. Just move away.

    joeyjoejoe

  38. This is essentially what Melissa Harris Perry said on her show recently, as the democratic party becomes more aligned with Blacks and minority issues the whites will leave the party. I think of the Bernie rally where the all white crowd was treated to their hero pushed off the stage by BLM. The looks on the faces in the crowd was disgust. One can only hope this has some impact on elections to come.

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    @Frank

    It was disgust at themselves, at their own privilege. White liberals may act racist as all hell, move to the toniest white towns and send their kids to the whitest schools they can find, but they will never question the moral superiority of black Americans. That is the third rail of leftwing politics, here and everywhere.

  39. @Harry Baldwin
    The organization Right on Crime – backed by Newt Gingrich, Grover Norquist and Jeb Bush --

    Okay, that there tells me everything I need to know.

    Conservatives believe increased violence stems from the reluctance of police officers to aggressively enforce the law in the wake of the rioting in Ferguson, Mo. in August, 2014. . .

    I think it was less the rioting itself than the realization that government was on the side of the rioters.

    Krepp, a former Obama administration appointee and now an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, is especially angry about random assaults.

    Random: a term used by liberals to describe crimes in which a black expresses his hatred of whites by picking out one at random to assault or murder.

    There is a very active segment of marauding at-risk youths

    These youths are not particularlly "at risk." It's the white people they encounter who are at risk.

    “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.”

    Perhaps it would help the at-risk youths if having been arrested for randomly assaulting whites gave them points toward hiring, like being a veteran.

    Replies: @e

    “the underlying issue is a lack of jobs, an economy that does not perform for a group of people.”

    As one commenter pointed out, yeah, sure, lack of jobs…you mean the unfilled service sector jobs in DC that the libs say “immigrants” rush to fill?

    Isn’t it funny how the excuse makers for these thugs, faced with such a retort, add “jobs WITH A FUTURE”? Entry level, service sector jobs are okay for whites but NOT for these vibrant youth.

  40. Three states have conceal carry without need of a license: Vermont, Arizona and Alaska. Washington, DC needs to immediately implement this and open carry. Start an ad campaign in other states: “DC: Shoot’em Dead like the Old West!”

    Then tell the Black residents: “Obama thinks you’re his sons, So Act Civilized Boy!”

    Any Cosmopolitans got a problem with that?

  41. @Anonymous
    The case of one Kevin Sutherland, publically butchered to death, in a packed, passive metro train car, in a grotesque form of 'inflight entertainment' by one Jasper Spires, is apposite here.
    Sutherland, geeky milquetoast that he was, was her stereotypical, liberal, totem-pole worshipping Democrat young political staffer on the make.
    If you are at all interested, Sutherland's twitter account is still extant, giving a ghostly insight into his beliefs and passions.

    Replies: @Ed, @DCThrowback, @Dave Pinsen

    There was also also a New York Times reporter who was murdered in DC several years ago: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/08/AR2006010801179_pf.html

  42. Say Trump becomes president, and African Americans come back into the GOP fold over his trade and immigration policies, plus his personal style. That would present an interesting situation. Would the Dems become the tough-on-crime party?

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, I like your comments on the whole, but this one is really silly. Blacks will NEVER return to the Republican fold. The blacks who were Republican were really mulattos, quadroons and octoroons who were already "free persons of color," or enslaved children of slave masters who felt guilty and supported them (yes, this happened a lot more than Skip Gates wants to admit). This buffer class benefited from patronage jobs from the end of the Civil War well into the 20th century. These were the black Republicans.

    The masses of blacks who became fervent New Deal Dems were the mostly or 100% African types who were the descendants of field hands and they were not Republicans. They never voted. The only party they've ever known has been the Dem party, and they rule it now. The Democratic party is truly the BlackLivesMatter party.

    Yes, some black men admire Trump's style. But that's as far as it goes. And I think that's great - I think he's actually got a good chance of creating a new political coalition, working class whites, middle class whites, and whatever non-whites (Asians, Hispanics) have the sense to see where their interests lie. I think he's also more likely to split the Jewish vote than any candidate since Reagan.

    , @Redpillyummy
    @Dave Pinsen

    Trump wouldn't win the votes of feral, welfare-dependent blacks. He'll only get the vote of employed middle class blacks who are honestly worried about competition from third world immigrants. That crowd is already in favor of tough-on-crime policies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  43. @Troy
    There are two issues here that should be, but usually are not, kept separate. One is policing. The other is sentencing. Both common sense and the experience of cities like New York suggest that aggressive policing deters crime. On the other hand, it's much less clear that criminals are deterred much by long prison sentences, as opposed to short prison sentences or alternative forms of punishment. And spending a bunch of time locked up with other criminals naturally breeds recidivism.

    Criminological research finds that criminals are deterred primarily by swiftness and certainty of punishment, and not by severity of punishment. In other words, if would-be criminals are confident that they'll get caught and punished for committing crimes, they're much less likely to commit crimes. But, would-be criminals being rather short-sighted (or, as economists would say, having a "high time preference"), knowing that they'll be locked up for 10 years rather than 1 makes little difference to them.

    So it's possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration, while at the same time support more aggressive policing and decry the effects of the riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, et al. and movements like Black Lives Matter in making police officers reticent to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'..., @AnotherDad, @Dave Pinsen

    You are ignoring that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. While in prison or jail they can only hurt one another not innocent victims on the street. Whether or not imprisonment deters or rehabilitates we know for damned sure it at least temporarily reduces the capacity of prisoners to hurt those not in prison.

    • Replies: @SEATAF
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    I don't believe @Troy is missing anything. Of course imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. That's not really the issue. The issue is that we have only so much money to spend on lowering crime. Prisons incapacitate criminals, but so do cops. So which offers the best ROI: prisons or cops? You obviously need both, but you can go too heavy on one. The cost of imprisoning two or three people in a year is about the same as employing a full-time cop. And most would-be criminals don't mess with cops directly. No one sane tries to burglarize the White House. No one sane tries to rob an on-duty and armed Officer Friendly. Read Stuntz.

    Replies: @Troy, @Anonym

  44. If you are an Asian, say, and you have to choose who to cast your lot with, the White Party or the Black Party, is your choice really that difficult?

    Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched. “Stale, pale, male” is kryptonite to cool.

  45. “A 22.3 percent increase in violent crime over the past year on Capitol Hill is driving the debate. From mid-October 2013 to mid-October 2014, there were 298 such crimes: robberies, assaults with a deadly weapon, rape and murder. For the same period in 2014-2015, there were 364 such crimes, according to the Metropolitan District Police.”

    What is it like to be an editor at the New York Times? I imagine you get a desk, with a cup of blue and red pencils. Is a calculator also one of the tools of your trade? Apparently not, for the editor of this article did not verify that 364/298 = 1.2214765, an increase of 22.1 percent, not 22.3 percent.

    Carlos, buy all your editors a calculator! With your bulk purchase, you can get them for less than a dollar apiece.
    http://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/reviews/dollar_calcs.htm

  46. @anonymous

    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging,” Holly O’Byrne, a paramedic, told The Washington Post, noting that “The drug is a game changer.”
     
    Over a hundred years ago people were saying that various drugs back then were putting blacks into wild manic rages. Nothing has changed since then. Nobody ever seems to learn anything but the wheel has to be re-invented every thirty years or so. The Coates faction wants special privileges to be accorded blacks and thus be given less incarceration because they realize blacks will never be able to alter their behavior so therefore the behavior should be accepted. Get mugged and robbed? Just deal with it and move on, like the Roman saying 'When encountering the barbarians, if you value your life give them everything you have'. Nowadays you're supposed to just give them your phone and wallet and get down on your hands and knees and beg them not to hurt you.

    Replies: @Alice, @Luke Lea, @pyrrhus

    Is there research on if it’s literally true? The long term evolutionary adaptation to alcohol took place where, geographically? The fertile crescent? Not in sub saharan Africa, right?

    During the 90s, I knew a great number of people in college dorms who cooked their own crack. All men, of course. The whites and asians said it made them feel like their ego was the biggest it had ever felt. What happens when blacks feel that way?

    What if the blacks have no natural genetic defense to that feeling while other groups do have some?

    The qat chewing and dope smoking Muslims from Africa are another question…

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I still remember when Matthew Yglesias got whacked upside the head, then for some odd reason he decided to frame the event as some sort of urban living love affair? There is intellectualism and then there is click-bait pseudo intellectualism for urban 20 something consumption. This is exactly why liberals always get in trouble with everyone who has a healthy level of down-to-earthness. Really, no one cares about waxing poetic about thug attacks. That really is kind of spergy and disingenuous.

  48. What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth

    • Replies: @MKP
    @Tiny Duck


    What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth
     
    I doubt your experience with "the white youth" is as extensive or expansive as you believe it to be. Sniveling 28 year-old swipples are not "the white youth" in any meaningful or useful sense. And 13-year old white kids in rapidly changing middle America are far more perceptive than you think they are.

    But if we're so awful, it should be a relatively easy matter to find the "back" button on your browser.
    , @ben tillman
    @Tiny Duck


    What planet are you guys from?
     
    Planet Perspicacity.
    , @Marty
    @Tiny Duck

    Bullshit. In '02 an 18-year old said to me on Telegraph Avenue (regarding blacks): "they think they're invincible."

  49. @Jill
    If I were a cop in that particular area, I would spend my day at Dunkin Donuts. Let them write their little essays back and forth to one another, as if that will solve the problem. Unbelievable, how this mass insanity of early release and non prosecution of violent criminals has quickly taken over peoples psyche.

    My community is presently experiencing the highest rate of heroin overdoses in New York city and at the same time New York has led the way in less or no punishment and early release od drug convicted felons.

    Anyone know where Ta-Nehisi Coates' lives. I am sure he is well protected.

    Replies: @midtown, @Dave Pinsen

    It’s my understanding that Coates is living in Paris now. (You might notice that Paris is not in Africa, by the way.) As for the criminal justice reform, there are aspects I could get behind, such as restoring the vote to felons since they have paid their time. But yeah, the early release stuff is so obviously going to be bad. Why can’t liberals see it? It’s times like these when I really do think that liberalism is a mental disorder.

  50. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    Some prominent c̶o̶n̶s̶e̶r̶v̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶s cuckservatives have also voiced support for sentencing reform. The organization Right on Crime – backed by Newt Gingrich, Grover Norquist and Jeb Bush — contends that prisons are not the solution for every type of offender. …

  51. @Arclight
    Ylesias's incident is not Capitol Hill - that would be Bloomingdale, which at the time was substantially less gentrified than the Hill. I used to live in the neighborhood to the east, which was not gentrified at the time (thus my ability to buy a home there) but now has the Union Market, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and Harris Teeter. Prior to all that a group known as the Black Hebrews used to stand on the streetcorner two blocks from my house and spout racial hate speech all day long in terms that had they been whites directed at blacks would have resulted in civil rights marches.

    Prior to that I rented on Capitol Hill, which is a wonderful neighborhood despite the rather foolish perceptions of many of its residents on politics, race, and crime. There are still multiple subsidized housing projects in that neighborhood and I am sure the encroachment of more and more whites into what were black areas for a generation or more has engendered more resentment and opportunities for random crime.

    Most urban dwellers know that a lot of the random violence is directed at people who look like easy marks rather than those who aren't afraid to look potential criminals in the eye and give the impression you belong on that sidewalk as much as them. Capitol Hill is filled with people that look like marks.

    Replies: @DCThrowback

    “Most urban dwellers know that a lot of the random violence is directed at people who look like easy marks rather than those who aren’t afraid to look potential criminals in the eye and give the impression you belong on that sidewalk as much as them. Capitol Hill is filled with people that look like marks.”

    This.

    If they think that you might actually snap and go off on them, they won’t mess with you.

    • Replies: @conatus
    @DCThrowback

    Yeah, I agree totally, I lived there over twenty years 71' to 93'. I was armed with poor boy, judgement proof, caulk smeared,overalls and later two dogs, one black one white.
    That worked for me, the bros would ask themselves "Why screw with this cracker?" when you can intimidate the crap out of the guy wearing Blucher shoes and a suit.
    For most of the years I lived there the the topic de jour of the residents was crime. 'Did you hear what happened to so and so....a guy climbed a tree in their front yard and raped their daughter in her bedroom!!!" "Hey they had a twelve year old climb in over the broken transom and let the burglars in."
    Capitol Hill was a great place in the 70s with an excess of eccentrics, anonymity and not much status-izing. Now it is wealthy, conformist and sporting a very tight tight sphincter. These days it is an extension of greater Panem, the Capitol city of the US, that tells the rest of us what to do. Like in the Hunger Games, Panem et circenses(Bread and circuses or for us.....Bud and NFL)

  52. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Say Trump becomes president, and African Americans come back into the GOP fold over his trade and immigration policies, plus his personal style. That would present an interesting situation. Would the Dems become the tough-on-crime party?

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @Redpillyummy

    Dave, I like your comments on the whole, but this one is really silly. Blacks will NEVER return to the Republican fold. The blacks who were Republican were really mulattos, quadroons and octoroons who were already “free persons of color,” or enslaved children of slave masters who felt guilty and supported them (yes, this happened a lot more than Skip Gates wants to admit). This buffer class benefited from patronage jobs from the end of the Civil War well into the 20th century. These were the black Republicans.

    The masses of blacks who became fervent New Deal Dems were the mostly or 100% African types who were the descendants of field hands and they were not Republicans. They never voted. The only party they’ve ever known has been the Dem party, and they rule it now. The Democratic party is truly the BlackLivesMatter party.

    Yes, some black men admire Trump’s style. But that’s as far as it goes. And I think that’s great – I think he’s actually got a good chance of creating a new political coalition, working class whites, middle class whites, and whatever non-whites (Asians, Hispanics) have the sense to see where their interests lie. I think he’s also more likely to split the Jewish vote than any candidate since Reagan.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  53. OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can’t go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Zach

    Blacks can't feel any connection with their ancestral homeland because living in a white society has brought them so many benefits, and accustomed them to a level of civilisation that would otherwise be unimaginable to them. It's a demonstration of where they'd be now if their ancestors hadn't sold them as slaves.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Zach

    At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I think he's doing that black thing where they think their experience is unique to being black. I'm such a mixed-up mutt of white ancestry that there's no ancestral home for me either, nowhere where I'd be inspired to say, "These are my people." I felt comfortable visiting England, but none of my ancestors were English.

    My kids have it even more so since my wife is Jewish. My son went to Israel on a Birthright trip, had a good time, but felt precisely nothing. It was weird for him to go to the Wailing Wall and see all the Jews overcome with emotion, while he was thinking, "Okay, old wall. Got it."

    , @Dew
    @Zach

    "abundance of black bodies", "the comfort of being around black bodies"...

    Oh boy, I see Coates influence in this. Just say "black people" or Africans darn it.

    "the complexity of black lives"

    Flattery will get you nowhere.

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Zach

    What a whiner. Most white Americans can't "go home" either. My ancestors left England and Switzerland 200 years ago. No one in Norfolk England is going to care if I show up and start telling them Henry Richardson was my great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

    , @Half Canadian
    @Zach

    This is a problem that some white Americans have as well. My own ancestors were expelled from Britain (indentured servants), and those for whom my family can trace, where their hovels are is now pavement or council housing.
    This Greek family is an anomaly in the US.

  54. @Ed
    @Anonymous

    That was a tragic case. I doubt politics was on his mind when he gasped his last breath but I wonder how his parents feel? Did their politics change any? I suspect not if it changed they'd probably argue for more government intervention & understanding.

    A few weeks after that a young Deloitte analyst was mowed down in a hail of bullets as he exited a cab near a Metro station. Got caught in a crossfire taking place in a nearby affordable housing complex.

    DC is kind of unique in that black criminality is spilling over to gentrified areas with increasing frequency. Should be interesting how things progress from here.

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He's still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @AndrewR, @ben tillman

    If that’s not evidence that cultural marxism is a mental disorder, IDK what is

  55. @AndrewR
    @Shouting Thomas

    With the True Believers there certainly is no bottom. But how many self-described "progressives" or Democrats truly believe in the Equality religion and how many are just going along because they've never really bothered to think critically about the prevailing "progressive" ideology? I think we are going to see a large number of non-ideologue lefties reading the writing on the wall. Besides the maniacally frenzied rate at which the SJW wing of the left has been picking up steam in recent years, there is also an increasing abundance of high quality non-leftoid writing that clearly details the absolute insanity of the left. It's becoming increasingly impossible to be a self-respecting white leftist.

    Or maybe this is wishful thinking...

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

    You be delusional, bro. The bar for “crazy” just gets higher and higher. I see intelligent formerly moderate democrats who are old enough to know better (i.e. remember the Cold War and the 1970s) seriously backing Bernie Sanders.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Captain Tripps

    Sanders does seem to be pretty economically illiterate but he doesn't strike me as evil so I don't know why you bring up the cold war.

    He is against the big banks and corporations so that makes him at least somewhat ok in my book, although he pissed me off by completely acquiescing to the BLM thugs

    Replies: @Boomstick, @Captain Tripps

  56. What most of the braindead people here are forgetting is that prior to Home Rule DC was ruled by Maryland and Virginia lawmakers who wanted nothing more than to keep the blacks firmly within the District (and out of their states). Now that they have their own government they want to gentrify the ghettos. At the same time, young dumb government employees don’t want to commute an hour to get to work, and DC has lots of decent housing stock.

  57. @Frank
    This is essentially what Melissa Harris Perry said on her show recently, as the democratic party becomes more aligned with Blacks and minority issues the whites will leave the party. I think of the Bernie rally where the all white crowd was treated to their hero pushed off the stage by BLM. The looks on the faces in the crowd was disgust. One can only hope this has some impact on elections to come.

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

    It was disgust at themselves, at their own privilege. White liberals may act racist as all hell, move to the toniest white towns and send their kids to the whitest schools they can find, but they will never question the moral superiority of black Americans. That is the third rail of leftwing politics, here and everywhere.

  58. @Ed
    @Anonymous

    That was a tragic case. I doubt politics was on his mind when he gasped his last breath but I wonder how his parents feel? Did their politics change any? I suspect not if it changed they'd probably argue for more government intervention & understanding.

    A few weeks after that a young Deloitte analyst was mowed down in a hail of bullets as he exited a cab near a Metro station. Got caught in a crossfire taking place in a nearby affordable housing complex.

    DC is kind of unique in that black criminality is spilling over to gentrified areas with increasing frequency. Should be interesting how things progress from here.

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He's still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @AndrewR, @ben tillman

    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/19/what_i_learned_from_getting_shot/

    Wow… Exactly what you’d expect from a self-hating white almost murdered by black yoofs for nothing.

    Mental illness is the only way to describe it.

  59. If by “Asian” you mean people from the sub-continent, you can forget it about a turn to the Republican Party. Middlesex County NJ and other such places are infested with large communities of Indians and Pakis. They are almost to a man Democrat. these people learned very fast that the key to American politics is ethnic solidarity and machine politics. They are completely and unashamedly focused on what can the taxpayers of this country do for me and my people.

    As to Washington, it’s apparent that Black Americans are so useless as employees that Ethiopians, Somali’s and other foreign blacks have been imported to fill the low wage service jobs. From pumping gas to counter work at your local RiteAide, you encounter actual Africans. Why no one writes about this I don’t know.

  60. The Operative Words in this article is Violent Crimes….not purse snatching or theft from an locked or locked car, but assaults upon the person. Battery, assault, armed robbery and especially rape and sexual assault are life changing and opinion changing. The problem is in the prosecution and sentencing. In Cleveland the Fugitive of the Week is a 20 year old male released on $3500 bond in May , that’s a payment of $350 to go free before trial. He was granted a two week extension while on bond. He never showed up on trial date and now he is wanted in the shooting of a woman. The woman was hit when he allegedly fired into a crowd with a AK-47. In May his charges included carrying a concealed weapon, assault and weapon possession as a felon, oh yeah, a previous felony. Cleveland entered into a Consent Degree with the DOJ. They just finished naming the 12 members to the Oversight Committee. Among their recommendations was a ban against Bias Policing or Profiling. They provided law enforcement with a list of people that would fit under their umbrella. The usual list of racial and minority markers, but then one commissioner, while putting on his size 30 yellow shoes, added Age Bias. Another commissioner, while putting on her red sponge nose added LGBT. So another commissioner, while pulling on his bald-pate wig, added age bias, the homeless and the mentally disabled. The Commission, before piling into their little car, added that the police must file a report recording what category each person they stop, question or arrest, fits into. Good luck with that. There are a number of great coffee shops and bagel joints in Cleveland. Police response is bound to go down.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Buffalo Joe

    Thanks for the laugh at the end there. Comedy gold!

  61. @Ian B.
    Here's a question though:

    How do the Republicans unit a coalition of:

    Asians, who prefer gun control and bigger government
    Evangelicals, who are a huge chunk of the Republican base and care deeply about the party upholding Christian values
    Traditionalist/rural Americans, who care deeply about having guns and limited government (some overlap between 2 and 3, obviously)

    For instance, who's a Republican candidate that could unite a coalition of concerned Asians who aren't sure if Hillary will sell out their interests to shield black criminals from consequence with the rest of the Republican base?

    Trump is the more forward-looking GOP candidate but I'm not sure his share of the electorate will stand up if Rubio can rally the traditional GOP base. In Rubio vs Clinton, where do these minority, non-black voters go?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Chris Mallory

    Asians, who prefer gun control and bigger government

    If that’s what they want, they don’t need the Republican Party, but Delta Air Lines, which inherited Northwest Orient‘s extensive route system to Asia. Home to Asia, I might add.

  62. @Anonymous
    Any *white person using the term "institutionalized racism" in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It's ok for minorities to use it. Grievance posturing in support of your own tribe is healthy and normal. It's posturing on behalf of other tribes against your own that's worthy of black fists to white faces.

    Replies: @NOTA, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @ben tillman

    Structural racism is a wonderful thing, because it can plug any gaps in your social theories. Rich black kids do worse in school than poor white kids? Middle class black kids joining gangs? Black teenagers being murdered in terrifying numbers by other black teenagers? Black cops just as inclined to beat suspects as white cops? Structural racism is the magic theory-spakle that can salvage your “it’s all the fault of racist whites” theory.

  63. @Anonymous
    Any *white person using the term "institutionalized racism" in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It's ok for minorities to use it. Grievance posturing in support of your own tribe is healthy and normal. It's posturing on behalf of other tribes against your own that's worthy of black fists to white faces.

    Replies: @NOTA, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @ben tillman

    As Steve is always making clear, it’s “posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own” as tactics in a class war internal to white society: a civil war. The Yankee-Cowboy War, Carl Oglesby once called it.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antiskynetist


    As Steve is always making clear, it’s “posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own” as tactics in a class war internal to white society
     
    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  64. @Jill
    If I were a cop in that particular area, I would spend my day at Dunkin Donuts. Let them write their little essays back and forth to one another, as if that will solve the problem. Unbelievable, how this mass insanity of early release and non prosecution of violent criminals has quickly taken over peoples psyche.

    My community is presently experiencing the highest rate of heroin overdoses in New York city and at the same time New York has led the way in less or no punishment and early release od drug convicted felons.

    Anyone know where Ta-Nehisi Coates' lives. I am sure he is well protected.

    Replies: @midtown, @Dave Pinsen

    Coates lives in Paris now, 150 meters away from Simon Kuper.

  65. @Anonymous
    While visiting my son in DC a few weeks ago, some of these scumbags broke into my wife's car. Guess i shouldn't be surprised. Back to the late 80s, I guess.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    Back to the late 80s, I guess.

    Well, it is Back to the Future Day.

  66. “Some prominent conservatives have also voiced support for sentencing reform. The organization Right on Crime – backed by Newt Gingrich, Grover Norquist and Jeb Bush — contends that prisons are not the solution for every type of offender. …”

    Indeed. Corporal and capital punishment, if we had the fortitude to use them, would be better solutions for many offenders.

    Perhaps the District could “outsource” its criminal law enforcement and corrections functions to Singapore. That would clean up street crime in a trice.

  67. My basic theory on rising crime rates along side gentrification is the population of ideal victims is increasing.

  68. “Maintaining a Coalition of the Fringes** isn’t easy, especially when the most colorful and entitled-feeling element in the coalition are African-Americans.”

    Gotta love the SoothSailer with his trademark phrase**. The observable reality is that conservatives, using his own metric of “colorful and entitled-feeling elements”, have their own rag-tag crew of tattered outsiders, which includes the race baiters, the neo-reactionaries,
    “reboot” fanatics, da Joo conspiracy theorists, and multiple shades of “victim groups” who blame “elites” for their woes, as if they are impotent politically and economically to make wholesale changes to American institutions and apparatus.

    “Dead souls who believe in nothing have no motivation even to defend themselves.”

    Assuming that those groups have “dead” souls and “no motivation”. Thanks, empty rhetoric.

    “Those in the USA who control the apparatus of socialization (a diffuse group spread across fields like education, entertainment, media; not a single cabal) have the deck stacked. They train young people in the doctrines of White Moral Inferiority and Black Moral Superiority.”

    So, I imagine with that you are willing to make a concerted effort to deprogram those sad saps, right? Should you undertake this daunting task, how do you propose to make changes?

  69. @Dave Pinsen
    Say Trump becomes president, and African Americans come back into the GOP fold over his trade and immigration policies, plus his personal style. That would present an interesting situation. Would the Dems become the tough-on-crime party?

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @Redpillyummy

    Trump wouldn’t win the votes of feral, welfare-dependent blacks. He’ll only get the vote of employed middle class blacks who are honestly worried about competition from third world immigrants. That crowd is already in favor of tough-on-crime policies.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Redpillyummy


    Trump wouldn’t win the votes of feral, welfare-dependent blacks
     
    They have votes? What happened to felon disenfranchisement?
  70. @Troy
    There are two issues here that should be, but usually are not, kept separate. One is policing. The other is sentencing. Both common sense and the experience of cities like New York suggest that aggressive policing deters crime. On the other hand, it's much less clear that criminals are deterred much by long prison sentences, as opposed to short prison sentences or alternative forms of punishment. And spending a bunch of time locked up with other criminals naturally breeds recidivism.

    Criminological research finds that criminals are deterred primarily by swiftness and certainty of punishment, and not by severity of punishment. In other words, if would-be criminals are confident that they'll get caught and punished for committing crimes, they're much less likely to commit crimes. But, would-be criminals being rather short-sighted (or, as economists would say, having a "high time preference"), knowing that they'll be locked up for 10 years rather than 1 makes little difference to them.

    So it's possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration, while at the same time support more aggressive policing and decry the effects of the riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, et al. and movements like Black Lives Matter in making police officers reticent to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'..., @AnotherDad, @Dave Pinsen

    So it’s possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration,

    You point about criminal incentives probably has some merit.

    But–Jus’ sayin’ has already said it, but it bears repeating–long sentences keep them off the street, prevent them from hurting citizens. It’s almost certain that the substantial crime reduction that has followed the “lock ’em up” strategy, is mostly simply from keeping more thugs off the street.

    ~~~
    There’s this constant chatter about all these “black men” being locked up, as if “black men” were some sort of interchangeable commodity, and if we just had jobs or something then they’d be fine. This is nonsense. I know a small smattering of black men and they are doing normal man stuff–holding down jobs, running small businesses, taking care of their families. They are not in prison … because they aren’t criminals!

    The reality is that most black men in prison are there because they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society. There’s a certain percentage of men who are just born that way–or at least born leaning that way. It’s probably a few percent of white men, it’s a much higher percentage–10 or 15 or even 20%, depending on your bar–of black men, for evolutionary reasons that are pretty easy to discern.

    Personally, i prefer death or *exile*–you’ve proven you won’t obey the rules of this society … you’re out!–for this garbage. But long incarceration while a thug is in his thug prime is the next best thing.

  71. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Troy

    You are ignoring that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. While in prison or jail they can only hurt one another not innocent victims on the street. Whether or not imprisonment deters or rehabilitates we know for damned sure it at least temporarily reduces the capacity of prisoners to hurt those not in prison.

    Replies: @SEATAF

    I don’t believe is missing anything. Of course imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. That’s not really the issue. The issue is that we have only so much money to spend on lowering crime. Prisons incapacitate criminals, but so do cops. So which offers the best ROI: prisons or cops? You obviously need both, but you can go too heavy on one. The cost of imprisoning two or three people in a year is about the same as employing a full-time cop. And most would-be criminals don’t mess with cops directly. No one sane tries to burglarize the White House. No one sane tries to rob an on-duty and armed Officer Friendly. Read Stuntz.

    • Replies: @Troy
    @SEATAF

    Right, it's true that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners, but I'm not convinced it's worth the costs. First, the financial costs: aggressive policing is not prohibitively costly, but mass incarceration is.

    Second, the recidivism costs: our re-offending rate is so high that it’s plausible that criminals are actually made more likely to re-offend by our current prison system. There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. Indeed, although conservatives tend to oppose non-traditional forms of criminal justice such as victim-offender reconciliation programs, these have better rehabilitation credentials precisely because they incorporate ideas embraced by conservatives in other contexts: forcing criminals to take responsibility for their crimes rather than blaming society for them. Posters on this thread have rightly decried the way in which anti-racist progressives encourage this harmful mentality, but throwing prisoners in badly managed jails with other resentful criminals also encourages it.

    Third, the moral costs: our current incarceration practices are cruel. Even if we ignore corruption and abuses by prison guards, the violence prisoners do to each other is itself a substantial moral cost – especially considering that even in the best justice system innocent people do go to jail, and petty criminals often live alongside hardened criminals. If imprisonment is necessary, then we may have to live with this cruelty, but if it is not necessary, then we should avoid it. By contrast, aggressive policing is much less cruel. Progressive hand-wringing notwithstanding, being occasionally stopped and frisked is not a great hardship.

    AnotherDad writes: The reality is that most black men in prison are there because they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society.

    There are social systems in which the large majority of black men, like the large majority of all people, are able to live productive, largely nonviolent lives. Traditional African social systems did not have mass incarceration, but they had much lower rates of (intra-tribal) violence than the current level of African-American crime. Pre-1960s America did not have mass incarceration, but it had a lower level of black crime than America has had since. There will likely always be some racial differences in crime rates, but better policing, stronger families, and smarter rehabilitation practices could bring the black crime rate down to much lower levels than they are currently at.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    , @Anonym
    @SEATAF

    It's probably a more effective use of money to imprison 3 criminally prone people than to employ one policeman. A policeman won't do much to prevent crime, whereas a career criminal will perform a lot of criminal acts in a year, which will in turn tie up police resources in trying to solve the crime, or at least take statements etc. Those crimes also make life hell for law abiders.

    The most effective way to lower the cost of policing would be to improve the demographics of your area over time. This is basically how gentrification works. It's amusing how liberals use gentrification to improve cities but the thought of paying for one way tickets back to Africa would be teh raycism.

  72. @Anonymous
    Street black orcs assaulting the Leftoid Elite that seeks the extermination of my people kinda makes me smile.

    Replies: @MKP

    Me too, and there ain’t no “kinda” about it. Hit ’em hard, boys, and don’t stop once they fall down.

    I’m tired of everyone playing for keeps except those who DON’T want to eradicate my family and my people.

  73. @Hail

    If you are an Asian, say, and you have to choose who to cast your lot with, the White Party or the Black Party, is your choice really that difficult?
     
    Those in the USA who control the apparatus of socialization (a diffuse group spread across fields like education, entertainment, media; not a single cabal) have the deck stacked. They train young people in the doctrines of White Moral Inferiority and Black Moral Superiority. Their power seems as strong as ever right now. If and only if the power of this apparatus falters and fails can what you say come to pass.

    This is why immigrants tend to assimilate more to Black norms than White ones. How many Asians are into Hip-Hop culture vs. Country Music culture?

    So it was that Asians, and every other Nonwhite group, voted by such a lopsided margin for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

    Replies: @NickG

    …and yes, my stuff is full of typos!

  74. “It’s probably a few percent of white men, it’s a much higher percentage–10 or 15 or even 20%, depending on your bar–of black men, for evolutionary reasons that are pretty easy to discern.”

    Hopefully you won’t teach your son to blatantly lie. White men who are in prison fit your own metric, “they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society”. You can’t honestly put in the qualifier “black” and apply your metric, and then completely ignore that metric when discussing white thugs.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Corvinus

    Thugs, black or white, should be dealt with.

    The problem is "disparate impact". The percentage of blacks that need to be "dealt with" as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today's American society.

    In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.

    That's why what is good for one group is not so good for another. Laws for one people would be brutal or ludicrous if applied to others. Gun control, for example, probably does make sense in Singapore, yet no white man with self-respect could tolerate it. Paternity and child support laws good for Whites would be a horrific burden applied to Blacks, and so they generally aren't.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

  75. I love reading “liberalism is a mental disorder” over and over again. It definitely doesn’t make the persons stating it sound like Internet trolls and worthless spergs.

  76. @Tiny Duck
    What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth

    Replies: @MKP, @ben tillman, @Marty

    What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth

    I doubt your experience with “the white youth” is as extensive or expansive as you believe it to be. Sniveling 28 year-old swipples are not “the white youth” in any meaningful or useful sense. And 13-year old white kids in rapidly changing middle America are far more perceptive than you think they are.

    But if we’re so awful, it should be a relatively easy matter to find the “back” button on your browser.

  77. @SEATAF
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    I don't believe @Troy is missing anything. Of course imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. That's not really the issue. The issue is that we have only so much money to spend on lowering crime. Prisons incapacitate criminals, but so do cops. So which offers the best ROI: prisons or cops? You obviously need both, but you can go too heavy on one. The cost of imprisoning two or three people in a year is about the same as employing a full-time cop. And most would-be criminals don't mess with cops directly. No one sane tries to burglarize the White House. No one sane tries to rob an on-duty and armed Officer Friendly. Read Stuntz.

    Replies: @Troy, @Anonym

    Right, it’s true that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners, but I’m not convinced it’s worth the costs. First, the financial costs: aggressive policing is not prohibitively costly, but mass incarceration is.

    Second, the recidivism costs: our re-offending rate is so high that it’s plausible that criminals are actually made more likely to re-offend by our current prison system. There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. Indeed, although conservatives tend to oppose non-traditional forms of criminal justice such as victim-offender reconciliation programs, these have better rehabilitation credentials precisely because they incorporate ideas embraced by conservatives in other contexts: forcing criminals to take responsibility for their crimes rather than blaming society for them. Posters on this thread have rightly decried the way in which anti-racist progressives encourage this harmful mentality, but throwing prisoners in badly managed jails with other resentful criminals also encourages it.

    Third, the moral costs: our current incarceration practices are cruel. Even if we ignore corruption and abuses by prison guards, the violence prisoners do to each other is itself a substantial moral cost – especially considering that even in the best justice system innocent people do go to jail, and petty criminals often live alongside hardened criminals. If imprisonment is necessary, then we may have to live with this cruelty, but if it is not necessary, then we should avoid it. By contrast, aggressive policing is much less cruel. Progressive hand-wringing notwithstanding, being occasionally stopped and frisked is not a great hardship.

    AnotherDad writes: The reality is that most black men in prison are there because they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society.

    There are social systems in which the large majority of black men, like the large majority of all people, are able to live productive, largely nonviolent lives. Traditional African social systems did not have mass incarceration, but they had much lower rates of (intra-tribal) violence than the current level of African-American crime. Pre-1960s America did not have mass incarceration, but it had a lower level of black crime than America has had since. There will likely always be some racial differences in crime rates, but better policing, stronger families, and smarter rehabilitation practices could bring the black crime rate down to much lower levels than they are currently at.

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Troy

    "There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. "

    Why don't you find that way, and then tell us about it? It's surely better for society to demand a proven technique for reforming criminals before changing from a system that has demonstrably worked at reducing crime to 1950's levels.

    I doubt that there is some magic prison policy bullet for reducing recidivism is a serious way. By the time most inmates hit prison they've been bad actors for a decade or two, and that during their formative adolescent years. The culture of criminality has been ingrained. They aren't going to be taught some magical technique to make them not be violent criminals. They'll age out of it, maybe, in a decade or three.

    A quick look at the stats for victim-offender reconciliation programs shows no particularly huge effect--in Texas in the 2000's the recidivism rate was something like 18% with vs. 27% without, numbers that could easily be accounted for by selection bias or simply random chance.

    Crime, and black crime, was lower in the 1950's because culture was very different. You can't have a libertarian/libertine culture that celebrates drugs and violence, low levels of punishment for crime, and a low crime rate. Unless you change culture in a radical way--and good luck with that--high levels of incarceration are the only plausible way to keep the crime rate down.

    Replies: @Troy

  78. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Just this morning on WBUR (Boston University's NPR news radio station) the chief justice of the Mass. Supreme Court was lauded for once again mouthing that standard liberal misunderstanding of cause and effect which goes something as follows:

    "For thirty years we have had mandatory minimum jail sentences. As a result many violent offenders are currently imprisoned. Just coincidentally, during that same period of time violent crime rates have been declining. Now violent crime rates are approaching record lows. Since they are it's time to eliminate mandatory minimum sentences and get those violent offenders back out on the street again."

    How can one possibly explain to someone this devoid of common sense that there is a flaw in his reasoning? The simple answer is one can't. Until such a person is nearly beaten to death or actually killed by the thugs he wants to hug, he will not get it. There's an e.e. cummings poem to this effect about a young American who finally does get it just as he's killed in WW II by a Japanese bomb made with scrap metal from the old Chicago El.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    The old saw is “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged,” but modern liberals are so delusional I don’t think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.

    It’s an interesting intellectual dynamic. Orwell talked about changing language to eliminate the ability to think thoughts contrary to INGSOC. Modern progressives have tied up so much of their self-image in being opposed to certain attitudes that they can’t CrimeThink even when confronted with direct and painful personal experience. No change to the language needed, just some stroking of the vanity.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Boomstick


    but modern liberals are so delusional I don’t think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.
     
    Those aren't liberals. They're progressives.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Boomstick

    The old saw is “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged”

    Yeah, I think that old saw has been retired. Liberals now take pride in that fact that they've been mugged or assaulted by blacks and they're still liberal. Being victimized by black criminals offers a great opportunity to prove you're no fair-weather friend to blacks. "I validate the moral supremacy of blacks even when they're kicking me in the head! In your face, racist right-wing scum!"

    Their whole identity has gotten so bound up in hating the badwhites that to change would cause an identity collapse.

  79. @Troy
    There are two issues here that should be, but usually are not, kept separate. One is policing. The other is sentencing. Both common sense and the experience of cities like New York suggest that aggressive policing deters crime. On the other hand, it's much less clear that criminals are deterred much by long prison sentences, as opposed to short prison sentences or alternative forms of punishment. And spending a bunch of time locked up with other criminals naturally breeds recidivism.

    Criminological research finds that criminals are deterred primarily by swiftness and certainty of punishment, and not by severity of punishment. In other words, if would-be criminals are confident that they'll get caught and punished for committing crimes, they're much less likely to commit crimes. But, would-be criminals being rather short-sighted (or, as economists would say, having a "high time preference"), knowing that they'll be locked up for 10 years rather than 1 makes little difference to them.

    So it's possible, and indeed reasonable, to support sentencing reform and oppose mass incarceration, while at the same time support more aggressive policing and decry the effects of the riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, et al. and movements like Black Lives Matter in making police officers reticent to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'..., @AnotherDad, @Dave Pinsen

    The solution is to teach the ex-cons liberal arts, per Catherine Rampell:

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Dave Pinsen

    Suspected killer of NYC cop was given a sentence of rehab because he was a non-violent perp. Prosecutors wanted 6 years. Coates, liberals etc. are going to get people killed.

    http://nypost.com/2015/10/21/judge-defends-sending-accused-cop-killer-to-rehab-instead-of-jail/

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Dave Pinsen

    "@crampell" sounds like a feminine hygiene remedy. Over the counter.

    , @ben tillman
    @Dave Pinsen


    Want to keep ex-cons from returning to prison? Give them a liberal arts education.
     
    Or turn them into newts. Very few newts in prison!

    This is a stupid conflation of correlation with causation, which was presumably your point.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  80. @Zach
    OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can't go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Harry Baldwin, @Dew, @Peter Akuleyev, @Half Canadian

    Blacks can’t feel any connection with their ancestral homeland because living in a white society has brought them so many benefits, and accustomed them to a level of civilisation that would otherwise be unimaginable to them. It’s a demonstration of where they’d be now if their ancestors hadn’t sold them as slaves.

  81. @Dave Pinsen
    @Troy

    The solution is to teach the ex-cons liberal arts, per Catherine Rampell:
    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/656952489036677120

    Replies: @Ed, @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman

    Suspected killer of NYC cop was given a sentence of rehab because he was a non-violent perp. Prosecutors wanted 6 years. Coates, liberals etc. are going to get people killed.

    http://nypost.com/2015/10/21/judge-defends-sending-accused-cop-killer-to-rehab-instead-of-jail/

  82. @Dave Pinsen
    @Troy

    The solution is to teach the ex-cons liberal arts, per Catherine Rampell:
    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/656952489036677120

    Replies: @Ed, @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman

    “@crampell” sounds like a feminine hygiene remedy. Over the counter.

  83. @Boomstick
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    The old saw is "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged," but modern liberals are so delusional I don't think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.

    It's an interesting intellectual dynamic. Orwell talked about changing language to eliminate the ability to think thoughts contrary to INGSOC. Modern progressives have tied up so much of their self-image in being opposed to certain attitudes that they can't CrimeThink even when confronted with direct and painful personal experience. No change to the language needed, just some stroking of the vanity.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Harry Baldwin

    but modern liberals are so delusional I don’t think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.

    Those aren’t liberals. They’re progressives.

  84. @Redpillyummy
    @Dave Pinsen

    Trump wouldn't win the votes of feral, welfare-dependent blacks. He'll only get the vote of employed middle class blacks who are honestly worried about competition from third world immigrants. That crowd is already in favor of tough-on-crime policies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Trump wouldn’t win the votes of feral, welfare-dependent blacks

    They have votes? What happened to felon disenfranchisement?

  85. Oh Steve Sailer, you know how they’re going to solve this dilemma.

    AFFH, i.e. 21st century Negro removal.

  86. @timothy
    Edsall doesn't mention him, but Rahm Emanuel, Chicago mayor and former Obama chief of staff, recently caused a stir by endorsing the Ferguson Effect as an explanation for crime trends in Chicago. He embodies Edsall's thesis that there is a national/local disconnect on these issues.

    I'm not sure Ferguson has much to do with what's going on in Chicago, however. 2015 just seems like a random fluctuation much like 2012 was. There's frankly not much a mayor can do about it.

    Replies: @Muse

    2015 just seems like a random fluctuation much like 2012 was. There’s frankly not much a mayor can do about it.

    Wrong!

    Fewer Cops, liberal policies such as reduced sentencing guidelines, lenient parole boards and judges have caused nightmare problems on Chicago’s Northside. Looks just like DC.

    Read about it here: http://www.cwbchicago.com/

  87. @Ian B.
    Here's a question though:

    How do the Republicans unit a coalition of:

    Asians, who prefer gun control and bigger government
    Evangelicals, who are a huge chunk of the Republican base and care deeply about the party upholding Christian values
    Traditionalist/rural Americans, who care deeply about having guns and limited government (some overlap between 2 and 3, obviously)

    For instance, who's a Republican candidate that could unite a coalition of concerned Asians who aren't sure if Hillary will sell out their interests to shield black criminals from consequence with the rest of the Republican base?

    Trump is the more forward-looking GOP candidate but I'm not sure his share of the electorate will stand up if Rubio can rally the traditional GOP base. In Rubio vs Clinton, where do these minority, non-black voters go?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Chris Mallory

    Why are you worried about Asians? They make up less than 5% of the US population, most of them are located in the deep blue states of California and Hawaii. They are a non-entity when it comes to national politics.

  88. @Dave Pinsen
    @Troy

    The solution is to teach the ex-cons liberal arts, per Catherine Rampell:
    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/656952489036677120

    Replies: @Ed, @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman

    Want to keep ex-cons from returning to prison? Give them a liberal arts education.

    Or turn them into newts. Very few newts in prison!

    This is a stupid conflation of correlation with causation, which was presumably your point.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @ben tillman

    Honestly, I didn't even bother reading the article, as the premise sounded so ludicrous. But the subtext seems to be Ms. Qin thinking: "Hey, if 90 IQ corrections officers and 100 IQ probation officers are making a living off of this, college-educated Chinese-speakers like me ought to get a piece too."

  89. This has the potential for some really ugly blowback. A big chunk of the ruling class and their kids and hangers-on are living in urban areas that have been made livable by low crime rates. If crime comes back up as a major issue, and those people are genuinely scared of the mostly black and Hispanic criminals, they will be capable of justifying pretty-much limitless nastiness in their response. However much I don’t enjoy watching them use urban crime to bash rednecks for owning guns, I think I might prefer it to seeing just how much nastier and more brutal the U.S. police and prison system become when the current crop of powerful people get genuinely scared.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    @NOTA

    I don't believe there will be blowback from the Left and their associates. Too many have drank so deeply from the well of PC/MC you could beat them into a wheelchair and they'd still blame themselves or society for what happened.

    Sure they fear Blacks and Mexican thugs, but if you notice they are not the sort that support 3 Strikes, mandatory sentencing, etc. Instead they'll weep over a black thug getting shot dead by a homeowner or cop. Selective outrage is their game.

    Personally I hope their precious minorities rip them a new one, it couldn't happen to a more deserving group that has done it's best to wreck havoc across the country with their idiot ideas.

  90. @Zach
    OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can't go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Harry Baldwin, @Dew, @Peter Akuleyev, @Half Canadian

    At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I think he’s doing that black thing where they think their experience is unique to being black. I’m such a mixed-up mutt of white ancestry that there’s no ancestral home for me either, nowhere where I’d be inspired to say, “These are my people.” I felt comfortable visiting England, but none of my ancestors were English.

    My kids have it even more so since my wife is Jewish. My son went to Israel on a Birthright trip, had a good time, but felt precisely nothing. It was weird for him to go to the Wailing Wall and see all the Jews overcome with emotion, while he was thinking, “Okay, old wall. Got it.”

  91. @Anonymous
    Any *white person using the term "institutionalized racism" in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It's ok for minorities to use it. Grievance posturing in support of your own tribe is healthy and normal. It's posturing on behalf of other tribes against your own that's worthy of black fists to white faces.

    Replies: @NOTA, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @ben tillman

    Any *white person using the term “institutionalized racism” in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It’s ok for minorities to use it.

    You might want to be a bit more careful and nuanced in your statements. The problem isn’t that institutional racism isn’t a real phenomenon; it’s that it is something practiced not by Whites but against Whites.

    • Replies: @Bob
    @ben tillman

    Only in the legally mandated and binding sense.

  92. When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @thinkingabout it


    Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.
     
    Oh, yeah? How are Thor and Ares doing these days?
    , @Dave Pinsen
    @thinkingabout it

    Worshipping Jesus didn't stop El Cid or Charles Martel from kicking ass.

    , @CCR
    @thinkingabout it


    When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.
     

    He was also a delusional parasite.
  93. @Ed
    @Anonymous

    That was a tragic case. I doubt politics was on his mind when he gasped his last breath but I wonder how his parents feel? Did their politics change any? I suspect not if it changed they'd probably argue for more government intervention & understanding.

    A few weeks after that a young Deloitte analyst was mowed down in a hail of bullets as he exited a cab near a Metro station. Got caught in a crossfire taking place in a nearby affordable housing complex.

    DC is kind of unique in that black criminality is spilling over to gentrified areas with increasing frequency. Should be interesting how things progress from here.

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He's still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @AndrewR, @ben tillman

    Brian Beutler of the New Republic, nearly died after getting shot during a robbery a few years ago in DC. He’s still a committed liberal, still an apologist for black criminality.

    I think it’s more likely that (like Yglesias) he’s a Leftist, not a liberal. Big difference.

  94. @Tiny Duck
    What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth

    Replies: @MKP, @ben tillman, @Marty

    What planet are you guys from?

    Planet Perspicacity.

  95. @anonymous-antiskynetist
    @Anonymous

    As Steve is always making clear, it's "posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own" as tactics in a class war internal to white society: a civil war. The Yankee-Cowboy War, Carl Oglesby once called it.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    As Steve is always making clear, it’s “posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own” as tactics in a class war internal to white society

    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ben tillman


    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

     

    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  96. Pre-1960s America did not have mass incarceration, but it had a lower level of black crime than America has had since.

    Pre-1960s America also had extensive segregation in many states. Black crime against white peepul was much lower in those states.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  97. @Buffalo Joe
    The Operative Words in this article is Violent Crimes....not purse snatching or theft from an locked or locked car, but assaults upon the person. Battery, assault, armed robbery and especially rape and sexual assault are life changing and opinion changing. The problem is in the prosecution and sentencing. In Cleveland the Fugitive of the Week is a 20 year old male released on $3500 bond in May , that's a payment of $350 to go free before trial. He was granted a two week extension while on bond. He never showed up on trial date and now he is wanted in the shooting of a woman. The woman was hit when he allegedly fired into a crowd with a AK-47. In May his charges included carrying a concealed weapon, assault and weapon possession as a felon, oh yeah, a previous felony. Cleveland entered into a Consent Degree with the DOJ. They just finished naming the 12 members to the Oversight Committee. Among their recommendations was a ban against Bias Policing or Profiling. They provided law enforcement with a list of people that would fit under their umbrella. The usual list of racial and minority markers, but then one commissioner, while putting on his size 30 yellow shoes, added Age Bias. Another commissioner, while putting on her red sponge nose added LGBT. So another commissioner, while pulling on his bald-pate wig, added age bias, the homeless and the mentally disabled. The Commission, before piling into their little car, added that the police must file a report recording what category each person they stop, question or arrest, fits into. Good luck with that. There are a number of great coffee shops and bagel joints in Cleveland. Police response is bound to go down.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Thanks for the laugh at the end there. Comedy gold!

  98. @Tiny Duck
    What planet are you guys from?

    Literally, no one outside of you weirdos thinks these kinds of things.

    Certainly not the white youth

    Replies: @MKP, @ben tillman, @Marty

    Bullshit. In ’02 an 18-year old said to me on Telegraph Avenue (regarding blacks): “they think they’re invincible.”

  99. Mr. Sailer, of all people, I can’t believe that you are underestimating the stupid party.

  100. @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    Any *white person using the term “institutionalized racism” in a non-ironic fashion deserves to be clocked in the face, repeatedly. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    *It’s ok for minorities to use it.

     

    You might want to be a bit more careful and nuanced in your statements. The problem isn't that institutional racism isn't a real phenomenon; it's that it is something practiced not by Whites but against Whites.

    Replies: @Bob

    Only in the legally mandated and binding sense.

  101. @Boomstick
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    The old saw is "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged," but modern liberals are so delusional I don't think a single mugging is enough to get the message. See Matt Yglesias.

    It's an interesting intellectual dynamic. Orwell talked about changing language to eliminate the ability to think thoughts contrary to INGSOC. Modern progressives have tied up so much of their self-image in being opposed to certain attitudes that they can't CrimeThink even when confronted with direct and painful personal experience. No change to the language needed, just some stroking of the vanity.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Harry Baldwin

    The old saw is “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged”

    Yeah, I think that old saw has been retired. Liberals now take pride in that fact that they’ve been mugged or assaulted by blacks and they’re still liberal. Being victimized by black criminals offers a great opportunity to prove you’re no fair-weather friend to blacks. “I validate the moral supremacy of blacks even when they’re kicking me in the head! In your face, racist right-wing scum!”

    Their whole identity has gotten so bound up in hating the badwhites that to change would cause an identity collapse.

  102. From PBS, average sentence served in state prison for various violent crimes:

    Rape: 65 months

    Homicide: 71 months

    Kidnapping: 52 months

    Robbery: 44 months

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dope/etc/match.html

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The truth is that this problem will never be solved in DC because of two simple truths that will never change:

    (1) DC local law (and federal laws to boot) go as far as any in the country at effectively preventing the citizens of the District from taking any action on their own behalf to improve the community. If you don’t believe me, go try and open a new store, food shop or raise a concern with 311 or a police officer about a hazard, danger or other potential problem/improvement you note. In short, the Government’s #1 priority is to make sure it is in charge of everything and that you know it, potential businesses and their “campaign contributions” know it, and the rest of the country knows it.

    and

    (2) The DC Government, having sole authority over all aspects of life, does absolutely nothing. Literally, I would be surprised if the average employee puts in more than 5-6 hours of productive work a week (getting paid for at least 40 of course and likely more). I have never in my life scene a culture so perfectly and ardently dedicated to not working, being unhelpful and generally adverse to productivity and self-improvement. If the DC outsiders (those not born here) were to all leave at once, I am quite sure the city would look like the opening scene of “I am Legend”. Having moved from NYC, I also noted right away that the police force, though apparently very large and incredibly expensive, is virtually invisible. I almost never see a police officer around and when I do, he is almost always following or proceeding an important politician or foreign dignitary around town. I am quite sure, as the news reflects, that I would be on my own in the event I needed one (hopefully any crime against me will be caught on camera so that the news story — if not justice on my behalf — could be thorough and complete). Certain police with some exceptions, also seem to be very anti-white person (which i suppose is understandable because it is white people who usually keep them running around all day and night — they rarely interact with the black perps who always seem to be “at large” or under “suspect description.” In any event…the city of DC is gorgeous visually and well built structurally (by private construction firms)…I had no idea how poorly it was run until I moved here. It’s a travesty of epic proportions.

    In light of these two unfortunate realities, it would seem that any good idea, even one with great potential to be effective is dead on arrival.

  104. @NOTA
    This has the potential for some really ugly blowback. A big chunk of the ruling class and their kids and hangers-on are living in urban areas that have been made livable by low crime rates. If crime comes back up as a major issue, and those people are genuinely scared of the mostly black and Hispanic criminals, they will be capable of justifying pretty-much limitless nastiness in their response. However much I don't enjoy watching them use urban crime to bash rednecks for owning guns, I think I might prefer it to seeing just how much nastier and more brutal the U.S. police and prison system become when the current crop of powerful people get genuinely scared.

    Replies: @rod1963

    I don’t believe there will be blowback from the Left and their associates. Too many have drank so deeply from the well of PC/MC you could beat them into a wheelchair and they’d still blame themselves or society for what happened.

    Sure they fear Blacks and Mexican thugs, but if you notice they are not the sort that support 3 Strikes, mandatory sentencing, etc. Instead they’ll weep over a black thug getting shot dead by a homeowner or cop. Selective outrage is their game.

    Personally I hope their precious minorities rip them a new one, it couldn’t happen to a more deserving group that has done it’s best to wreck havoc across the country with their idiot ideas.

  105. @Zach
    OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can't go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Harry Baldwin, @Dew, @Peter Akuleyev, @Half Canadian

    “abundance of black bodies”, “the comfort of being around black bodies”…

    Oh boy, I see Coates influence in this. Just say “black people” or Africans darn it.

    “the complexity of black lives”

    Flattery will get you nowhere.

  106. @thinkingabout it
    When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen, @CCR

    Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    Oh, yeah? How are Thor and Ares doing these days?

  107. @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antiskynetist


    As Steve is always making clear, it’s “posturing in behalf of other tribes against your own” as tactics in a class war internal to white society
     
    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar


    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.
     
    I'm not interested in complimenting White people. The truth isn't always pretty.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

  108. @Troy
    @SEATAF

    Right, it's true that imprisonment incapacitates prisoners, but I'm not convinced it's worth the costs. First, the financial costs: aggressive policing is not prohibitively costly, but mass incarceration is.

    Second, the recidivism costs: our re-offending rate is so high that it’s plausible that criminals are actually made more likely to re-offend by our current prison system. There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. Indeed, although conservatives tend to oppose non-traditional forms of criminal justice such as victim-offender reconciliation programs, these have better rehabilitation credentials precisely because they incorporate ideas embraced by conservatives in other contexts: forcing criminals to take responsibility for their crimes rather than blaming society for them. Posters on this thread have rightly decried the way in which anti-racist progressives encourage this harmful mentality, but throwing prisoners in badly managed jails with other resentful criminals also encourages it.

    Third, the moral costs: our current incarceration practices are cruel. Even if we ignore corruption and abuses by prison guards, the violence prisoners do to each other is itself a substantial moral cost – especially considering that even in the best justice system innocent people do go to jail, and petty criminals often live alongside hardened criminals. If imprisonment is necessary, then we may have to live with this cruelty, but if it is not necessary, then we should avoid it. By contrast, aggressive policing is much less cruel. Progressive hand-wringing notwithstanding, being occasionally stopped and frisked is not a great hardship.

    AnotherDad writes: The reality is that most black men in prison are there because they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society.

    There are social systems in which the large majority of black men, like the large majority of all people, are able to live productive, largely nonviolent lives. Traditional African social systems did not have mass incarceration, but they had much lower rates of (intra-tribal) violence than the current level of African-American crime. Pre-1960s America did not have mass incarceration, but it had a lower level of black crime than America has had since. There will likely always be some racial differences in crime rates, but better policing, stronger families, and smarter rehabilitation practices could bring the black crime rate down to much lower levels than they are currently at.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    “There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. ”

    Why don’t you find that way, and then tell us about it? It’s surely better for society to demand a proven technique for reforming criminals before changing from a system that has demonstrably worked at reducing crime to 1950’s levels.

    I doubt that there is some magic prison policy bullet for reducing recidivism is a serious way. By the time most inmates hit prison they’ve been bad actors for a decade or two, and that during their formative adolescent years. The culture of criminality has been ingrained. They aren’t going to be taught some magical technique to make them not be violent criminals. They’ll age out of it, maybe, in a decade or three.

    A quick look at the stats for victim-offender reconciliation programs shows no particularly huge effect–in Texas in the 2000’s the recidivism rate was something like 18% with vs. 27% without, numbers that could easily be accounted for by selection bias or simply random chance.

    Crime, and black crime, was lower in the 1950’s because culture was very different. You can’t have a libertarian/libertine culture that celebrates drugs and violence, low levels of punishment for crime, and a low crime rate. Unless you change culture in a radical way–and good luck with that–high levels of incarceration are the only plausible way to keep the crime rate down.

    • Replies: @Troy
    @Boomstick

    I agree that culture is a huge part of it, and I think we should try to change that, even if it's not easy. And I agree that no method will be a magic bullet; the best we can do is find one that works better than what we have currently.

    You write,

    It’s surely better for society to demand a proven technique for reforming criminals before changing from a system that has demonstrably worked at reducing crime to 1950′s levels.

    I would be cautious about drawing causal conclusions from this correlation. There are a lot of causal factors going into the recent reduction in crime, and it's hard to know how much of a role greater incarceration played.

    The data that I've seen do suggest to me that victim-offender reconciliation programs have lower recidivism rates, although I agree with you that we should be cautious of factors like selection bias. But I wouldn't suggest that we just switch wholesale to VORPs or any other method right now. Rather what I'd like to see is more experimenting with alternative methods like VORPs and careful tracking of their effects, followed by increased implementation if they are successful.

  109. @SEATAF
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    I don't believe @Troy is missing anything. Of course imprisonment incapacitates prisoners. That's not really the issue. The issue is that we have only so much money to spend on lowering crime. Prisons incapacitate criminals, but so do cops. So which offers the best ROI: prisons or cops? You obviously need both, but you can go too heavy on one. The cost of imprisoning two or three people in a year is about the same as employing a full-time cop. And most would-be criminals don't mess with cops directly. No one sane tries to burglarize the White House. No one sane tries to rob an on-duty and armed Officer Friendly. Read Stuntz.

    Replies: @Troy, @Anonym

    It’s probably a more effective use of money to imprison 3 criminally prone people than to employ one policeman. A policeman won’t do much to prevent crime, whereas a career criminal will perform a lot of criminal acts in a year, which will in turn tie up police resources in trying to solve the crime, or at least take statements etc. Those crimes also make life hell for law abiders.

    The most effective way to lower the cost of policing would be to improve the demographics of your area over time. This is basically how gentrification works. It’s amusing how liberals use gentrification to improve cities but the thought of paying for one way tickets back to Africa would be teh raycism.

  110. The difference between DC and any other city in America, as far as I am concerned, is that while the others have the right to destroy themselves if that’s what their idiot electorates want, the city of Washington does not have the right to do so, because it is the seat of government for all of the nation and not just its residents. Home rule was a stupid idea from the get go.

    The Founding Fathers should have made the Vice President the Mayor-In-Chief of the DC local government and provided for its administration by some nationally representative body, with locals having a minimal control. Those chafing under such rule should simply move out.

  111. @Corvinus
    “It’s probably a few percent of white men, it’s a much higher percentage–10 or 15 or even 20%, depending on your bar–of black men, for evolutionary reasons that are pretty easy to discern.”

    Hopefully you won’t teach your son to blatantly lie. White men who are in prison fit your own metric, “they are garbage–bad, nasty, thuggish garbage, unfit to live in civilized society”. You can’t honestly put in the qualifier “black” and apply your metric, and then completely ignore that metric when discussing white thugs.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    Thugs, black or white, should be dealt with.

    The problem is “disparate impact”. The percentage of blacks that need to be “dealt with” as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today’s American society.

    In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.

    That’s why what is good for one group is not so good for another. Laws for one people would be brutal or ludicrous if applied to others. Gun control, for example, probably does make sense in Singapore, yet no white man with self-respect could tolerate it. Paternity and child support laws good for Whites would be a horrific burden applied to Blacks, and so they generally aren’t.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    @Former Darfur

    "... sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist."

    I have often thought that the behavioral problems of thuggish youth are not unlike those of pet cats. An unaltered tomcat, for example, impregnates every female in reach (the females are constantly either pregnant or nursing), repeatedly gets into fights with other tomcats, and "marks" his territory by micturating on various objects within it.

    Do we not see the same pattern amongst the underclass? They procreate prolifically and irresponsibly, engage in violence (mainly directed at each other) and mark their territories with gang graffiti.

    All these behaviors, whether feline or human, are caused by an overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect. The remedy is not mere sterilization, but rather castration and spaying, which remove not only the ability to procreate but also the hormonal furor that accompanies it. We perform these operations routinely on companion animals, which are thereby rendered tractable. If society intends to make pampered pets of the most vicious elements of the underclass, the least it can do is to spay and neuter them.

  112. @ben tillman
    @Dave Pinsen


    Want to keep ex-cons from returning to prison? Give them a liberal arts education.
     
    Or turn them into newts. Very few newts in prison!

    This is a stupid conflation of correlation with causation, which was presumably your point.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Honestly, I didn’t even bother reading the article, as the premise sounded so ludicrous. But the subtext seems to be Ms. Qin thinking: “Hey, if 90 IQ corrections officers and 100 IQ probation officers are making a living off of this, college-educated Chinese-speakers like me ought to get a piece too.”

  113. @thinkingabout it
    When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen, @CCR

    Worshipping Jesus didn’t stop El Cid or Charles Martel from kicking ass.

  114. @Captain Tripps
    @AndrewR

    You be delusional, bro. The bar for "crazy" just gets higher and higher. I see intelligent formerly moderate democrats who are old enough to know better (i.e. remember the Cold War and the 1970s) seriously backing Bernie Sanders.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Sanders does seem to be pretty economically illiterate but he doesn’t strike me as evil so I don’t know why you bring up the cold war.

    He is against the big banks and corporations so that makes him at least somewhat ok in my book, although he pissed me off by completely acquiescing to the BLM thugs

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @AndrewR

    I'm not so sure Sanders isn't evil, or dream of being evil. He honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and was a regular traveler to Nicaragua and Cuba. The sorts of people who make those trips are usually sympathetic to the goals of the evil people who run them, though the may not advertise that.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/425839/bernie-sanders-documentary-eugene-debs

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

    , @Captain Tripps
    @AndrewR

    What does it mean to be "against" the big banks and corporations? If you mean he advocates ever greater government control of those organizations, with him -- coincidentally! -- in the driver's seat of government, then no, he's not against them in any meaningful sense.

    The thing about Socialists is that they promise all kinds of fun and free stuff, which is why they get elected, especially by the young and/ or dumb. It's when they have to deliver on those very expensive promises that all the evil starts. I'm sure Bernie thinks he's the nicest guy in the world, and Lenin called himself the greatest humanitarian. That was before the mass liquidations, of course.

  115. @DCThrowback
    @Arclight

    "Most urban dwellers know that a lot of the random violence is directed at people who look like easy marks rather than those who aren’t afraid to look potential criminals in the eye and give the impression you belong on that sidewalk as much as them. Capitol Hill is filled with people that look like marks."

    This.

    If they think that you might actually snap and go off on them, they won't mess with you.

    Replies: @conatus

    Yeah, I agree totally, I lived there over twenty years 71′ to 93′. I was armed with poor boy, judgement proof, caulk smeared,overalls and later two dogs, one black one white.
    That worked for me, the bros would ask themselves “Why screw with this cracker?” when you can intimidate the crap out of the guy wearing Blucher shoes and a suit.
    For most of the years I lived there the the topic de jour of the residents was crime. ‘Did you hear what happened to so and so….a guy climbed a tree in their front yard and raped their daughter in her bedroom!!!” “Hey they had a twelve year old climb in over the broken transom and let the burglars in.”
    Capitol Hill was a great place in the 70s with an excess of eccentrics, anonymity and not much status-izing. Now it is wealthy, conformist and sporting a very tight tight sphincter. These days it is an extension of greater Panem, the Capitol city of the US, that tells the rest of us what to do. Like in the Hunger Games, Panem et circenses(Bread and circuses or for us…..Bud and NFL)

  116. @Zach
    OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can't go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Harry Baldwin, @Dew, @Peter Akuleyev, @Half Canadian

    What a whiner. Most white Americans can’t “go home” either. My ancestors left England and Switzerland 200 years ago. No one in Norfolk England is going to care if I show up and start telling them Henry Richardson was my great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

  117. @anonymous

    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging,” Holly O’Byrne, a paramedic, told The Washington Post, noting that “The drug is a game changer.”
     
    Over a hundred years ago people were saying that various drugs back then were putting blacks into wild manic rages. Nothing has changed since then. Nobody ever seems to learn anything but the wheel has to be re-invented every thirty years or so. The Coates faction wants special privileges to be accorded blacks and thus be given less incarceration because they realize blacks will never be able to alter their behavior so therefore the behavior should be accepted. Get mugged and robbed? Just deal with it and move on, like the Roman saying 'When encountering the barbarians, if you value your life give them everything you have'. Nowadays you're supposed to just give them your phone and wallet and get down on your hands and knees and beg them not to hurt you.

    Replies: @Alice, @Luke Lea, @pyrrhus

    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging . . .

    What they don’t bother to tell you is that it is the reporters and editorial writers who are obviously taking these new drugs. How else explain Ferguson, Baltimore, etc..?

  118. @Boomstick
    @Troy

    "There are almost surely better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than our current system. "

    Why don't you find that way, and then tell us about it? It's surely better for society to demand a proven technique for reforming criminals before changing from a system that has demonstrably worked at reducing crime to 1950's levels.

    I doubt that there is some magic prison policy bullet for reducing recidivism is a serious way. By the time most inmates hit prison they've been bad actors for a decade or two, and that during their formative adolescent years. The culture of criminality has been ingrained. They aren't going to be taught some magical technique to make them not be violent criminals. They'll age out of it, maybe, in a decade or three.

    A quick look at the stats for victim-offender reconciliation programs shows no particularly huge effect--in Texas in the 2000's the recidivism rate was something like 18% with vs. 27% without, numbers that could easily be accounted for by selection bias or simply random chance.

    Crime, and black crime, was lower in the 1950's because culture was very different. You can't have a libertarian/libertine culture that celebrates drugs and violence, low levels of punishment for crime, and a low crime rate. Unless you change culture in a radical way--and good luck with that--high levels of incarceration are the only plausible way to keep the crime rate down.

    Replies: @Troy

    I agree that culture is a huge part of it, and I think we should try to change that, even if it’s not easy. And I agree that no method will be a magic bullet; the best we can do is find one that works better than what we have currently.

    You write,

    It’s surely better for society to demand a proven technique for reforming criminals before changing from a system that has demonstrably worked at reducing crime to 1950′s levels.

    I would be cautious about drawing causal conclusions from this correlation. There are a lot of causal factors going into the recent reduction in crime, and it’s hard to know how much of a role greater incarceration played.

    The data that I’ve seen do suggest to me that victim-offender reconciliation programs have lower recidivism rates, although I agree with you that we should be cautious of factors like selection bias. But I wouldn’t suggest that we just switch wholesale to VORPs or any other method right now. Rather what I’d like to see is more experimenting with alternative methods like VORPs and careful tracking of their effects, followed by increased implementation if they are successful.

  119. @Zach
    OT: White Americans may soon discover they really can't go home again. However, one Daily Beast writer tells us that that was never a possibility for American Blacks.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/african-americans-can-t-go-home.html?ref=yfp

    African-Americans Can’t Go ‘Home’
    A trip to a friend’s wedding on the ancestral homeland in Greece made me realize: If I tried to do that, I’d have nowhere to go.

    Earlier this month, I attended a wedding on a remote Greek island about five hours outside of Athens. I know, my life sounds pretty awful; but the trip was more than a vacation under clear blue seas among sandy beaches. The wedding was held at the bride’s ancestral home, where distant relatives greeted them with open arms. As an African American, I did not anticipate my friend’s connectedness to a foreign land and culture to be such an alien sensation for me—and in many ways I hoped it would not have been—but during this weeklong sojourn the scale of my disconnectedness to a foreign land weighed heavily on me.

    The wedding party was an eclectic, global crowd with representatives from all across the world, and we all gathered in a tiny villa and then an even tinier Greek Orthodox church to witness the marriage of two wonderful people. A new union was building upon the cultural and familial foundations that generation upon generation of forefathers had created. We all felt the significance of the moment.

    As with most weddings the father of the bride said it best. At one point during his speech, he thanked his daughter and new son-in-law for selecting his ancestral home as their wedding site. He spoke about how his family has had a recorded history on this island dating back to the first census, conducted by its former Venetian occupiers, more than 500 years ago. (He could tell you the name and location of one of his ancestors from the 16th century!) The father’s family had come to America more than 100 years ago, yet the connection to the island had never ceased. Fighting off tears, he told the newlyweds how this wedding, this union, and this joyous return home had meant more to him than words could ever express.

    I remember listening to his speech and fighting off my own emotions, wondering if America’s black community—my community—could experience emotions similar to those of the father of the bride. At that moment, I knew that there was not a place in the world that I—and probably countless other black Americans—could return to and have an emotional connection that was similar to the man’s standing before me.

    I knew I could come close to that feeling, while still missing the mark. My family has a documented history in Charleston, South Carolina since the beginning of the 19th century, and we’ve been in Prattville, Alabama since the 1840s, so I can see how a significant familial event in either location could elicit a groundswell of emotion from my parents. Yet black Americans have always had that natural American desire that is a yearning for a connectedness to an ancestral homeland that can enhance our American narrative of success and survival. But when we search for that foreign connection we inevitably will fall short.

    As far back as the 1820s, free people of color had gone to Africa to escape American oppression and “return” to their “homeland.” But upon their arrival, most behaved as colonizers, not returning sons. They had returned as black Americans in search of freedom and opportunity, and not as Africans with a desire to reconnect with long lost family members. They had been away for too long, their ancestors kidnapped and terminally severed from their villages and homelands. In the intervening centuries, new American customs had become too rooted in their psyche.

    The severity of black America’s disconnection to Africa should not be lost to Americans, but by most accounts it certainly is. Still today, racist voices will continue to proclaim that black Americans should go back to Africa. But if black Americans were in fact to return to Africa as racist terrorists such as Dylann Roof, who killed nine African Americans at Emanuel AME Church, have advocated, where would we go? The reality is that as a people, few, if any, black Americans could find their authentic homeland. No matter how much we may yearn for an ancestral homeland like other immigrants, America is the only place where that connection can be established.

    Of course, countless Americans regardless of race will have difficulty tracing their family history for hundreds of years, but there is a vast difference between losing or forgetting something and the feeling of having something taken away. And there is a difference between knowing the country you come from—and often the precise village—and being able to identify only the continent of your ancestors.

    Even now I have friends and family members who are visiting Africa in search of a connection, but we are all tourists who just so happen to have a greater euphoria and comfort around an abundance of black bodies than the average American. We are not returning home in the same way my friend’s family did for this wedding.

    Regularly, the comfort of being around black bodies in foreign lands can mask itself as a connection for black Americans. But for me, I felt the lack of an authentic connection sharply as I observed the depth of emotion the wedding family attached to its homeland. I wondered if it would ever be possible for me, my family, or other black Americans to feel the same way.

    The severity of black Americans’ disconnect with Africa is hard for others, and even myself, to comprehend because it lacks any similar, modern analog. America should reacquaint itself with this experience of its black citizens so that all of us can have a greater understanding of the complexity of black lives and how we fit into the various foundations of this nation.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Harry Baldwin, @Dew, @Peter Akuleyev, @Half Canadian

    This is a problem that some white Americans have as well. My own ancestors were expelled from Britain (indentured servants), and those for whom my family can trace, where their hovels are is now pavement or council housing.
    This Greek family is an anomaly in the US.

  120. @thinkingabout it
    When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen, @CCR

    When will you sheeple realize that your Lawd Gawd Jesus Christ is the root cause of this moronic tendency within your elites to worship the same people who ruthlessly prey upon them?

    A half-baked cult that preaches tolerance, cheek turning and hating the sin while loving the sinner is obviously going to result in dummies who praise their rapist / mugger / burglar.

    Kick Christianity out of your lives. Start challenging people who use Jesus as a paragon of virtue. He was a weakling, an embarrassment.

    He was also a delusional parasite.

  121. @AndrewR
    @Captain Tripps

    Sanders does seem to be pretty economically illiterate but he doesn't strike me as evil so I don't know why you bring up the cold war.

    He is against the big banks and corporations so that makes him at least somewhat ok in my book, although he pissed me off by completely acquiescing to the BLM thugs

    Replies: @Boomstick, @Captain Tripps

    I’m not so sure Sanders isn’t evil, or dream of being evil. He honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and was a regular traveler to Nicaragua and Cuba. The sorts of people who make those trips are usually sympathetic to the goals of the evil people who run them, though the may not advertise that.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/425839/bernie-sanders-documentary-eugene-debs

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    @Boomstick

    The 20th century was one long struggle against totalitarian socialist ideologies. It was bloody and horrible, but at least it should've been definitive. If there is one thing we should all be able to agree on at this late date, is that the earth is round and socialism is intrinsically dysfunctional and evil. Okay, sure, socialism was a nice idea that seemed like it could pan out back in the 1840s. But at the distance of centuries of experience, millions of corpses and devastated nations and economies, how is it that a guy can present himself as a candidate for president of the world's largest economy once again waving the same banner of socialism that seemed fresh and new in 1920, and less so ever since? To be so willfully ignorant of history and cause and effect is to be fundamentally evil.
    The fact that he honeymooned in the world's largest tyranny is unsurprising. How are we electing guys like Diblasio and Sanders?

    Replies: @Rob McX

  122. @Reg Cæsar
    @ben tillman


    It may appear to be internal, but it is the result of external influence.

     

    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.

    I’m not interested in complimenting White people. The truth isn’t always pretty.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @ben tillman

    The problem isn't blacks, mestizos, orientals, Jews or anyone else. The problem is white people who can't face reality. Solve that and the other issues are all easily fixable.

    The white race has to want to live, to survive as a people, and it has to want it bad enough to be willing to do the one thing people through the ages have most resisted: to think, to think rationally, and to act on its own rational conclusions.

    No one else has to be exterminated or even brutalized as a people. In fact, survival of the white race, as a race, will benefit all the other races. If whites go extinct, a massive die-off is absolutely guaranteed. The world's population will plunge to 1600-1800 AD levels and probably in thirty years. Another disease, like AIDS or Ebola, will spring up in Africa, and it will depopulate the continent: even if it doesn't African blacks on their own can only subsistence farm, which won't feed more than a couple hundred million people, and even that only when with the remnants of white technology they've exterminated the lions, leopards, crocs, rhinos, and all other African wildlife. Japan and perhaps Korea and Taiwan will hold on to "western style" technology and society, along with perhaps isolated pockets in China, but the rest of Asia will return to being as it was before the fifteenth century. Ten thousand years of technology will go away.

  123. @AndrewR
    @Captain Tripps

    Sanders does seem to be pretty economically illiterate but he doesn't strike me as evil so I don't know why you bring up the cold war.

    He is against the big banks and corporations so that makes him at least somewhat ok in my book, although he pissed me off by completely acquiescing to the BLM thugs

    Replies: @Boomstick, @Captain Tripps

    What does it mean to be “against” the big banks and corporations? If you mean he advocates ever greater government control of those organizations, with him — coincidentally! — in the driver’s seat of government, then no, he’s not against them in any meaningful sense.

    The thing about Socialists is that they promise all kinds of fun and free stuff, which is why they get elected, especially by the young and/ or dumb. It’s when they have to deliver on those very expensive promises that all the evil starts. I’m sure Bernie thinks he’s the nicest guy in the world, and Lenin called himself the greatest humanitarian. That was before the mass liquidations, of course.

  124. @Boomstick
    @AndrewR

    I'm not so sure Sanders isn't evil, or dream of being evil. He honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and was a regular traveler to Nicaragua and Cuba. The sorts of people who make those trips are usually sympathetic to the goals of the evil people who run them, though the may not advertise that.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/425839/bernie-sanders-documentary-eugene-debs

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

    The 20th century was one long struggle against totalitarian socialist ideologies. It was bloody and horrible, but at least it should’ve been definitive. If there is one thing we should all be able to agree on at this late date, is that the earth is round and socialism is intrinsically dysfunctional and evil. Okay, sure, socialism was a nice idea that seemed like it could pan out back in the 1840s. But at the distance of centuries of experience, millions of corpses and devastated nations and economies, how is it that a guy can present himself as a candidate for president of the world’s largest economy once again waving the same banner of socialism that seemed fresh and new in 1920, and less so ever since? To be so willfully ignorant of history and cause and effect is to be fundamentally evil.
    The fact that he honeymooned in the world’s largest tyranny is unsurprising. How are we electing guys like Diblasio and Sanders?

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Captain Tripps

    I can't see socialism and capitalism as an either/or situation. In every country in in the world, state interference in the in citizens' lives is somewhere on a sliding scale, between state ownership of everything at the one end and the complete economic freedom that libertarians dream of at the other. Most "capitalist" countries are halfway across the spectrum.

    I don't think either of these extremes has ever existed in reality. In communist countries, a black market always emerged by itself as an underground counterpart to the "controlled economy".

    Nor was there ever a complete "free market economy". In a situation where the state is weak (or hasn't yet emerged), the strong and greedy grab more for themselves, kin loyalty trumps economic interests, etc.

    When you see all the big corporate bosses joining the open-borders SJWs in clamouring for more immigration, you can see that capitalism as it now stands is out to destroy us.

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

  125. @Former Darfur
    @Corvinus

    Thugs, black or white, should be dealt with.

    The problem is "disparate impact". The percentage of blacks that need to be "dealt with" as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today's American society.

    In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.

    That's why what is good for one group is not so good for another. Laws for one people would be brutal or ludicrous if applied to others. Gun control, for example, probably does make sense in Singapore, yet no white man with self-respect could tolerate it. Paternity and child support laws good for Whites would be a horrific burden applied to Blacks, and so they generally aren't.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    “… sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.”

    I have often thought that the behavioral problems of thuggish youth are not unlike those of pet cats. An unaltered tomcat, for example, impregnates every female in reach (the females are constantly either pregnant or nursing), repeatedly gets into fights with other tomcats, and “marks” his territory by micturating on various objects within it.

    Do we not see the same pattern amongst the underclass? They procreate prolifically and irresponsibly, engage in violence (mainly directed at each other) and mark their territories with gang graffiti.

    All these behaviors, whether feline or human, are caused by an overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect. The remedy is not mere sterilization, but rather castration and spaying, which remove not only the ability to procreate but also the hormonal furor that accompanies it. We perform these operations routinely on companion animals, which are thereby rendered tractable. If society intends to make pampered pets of the most vicious elements of the underclass, the least it can do is to spay and neuter them.

  126. Mr. Mitchell—

    “The problem is “disparate impact”. The percentage of blacks that need to be “dealt with” as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today’s American society.”

    Why is it impossible? I mean, how can people just be so dense!

    “In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.”

    Eugenics. It ain’t for breakfast, anymore.

    Crawfudmuir—“Do we not see the same pattern amongst the underclass? They procreate prolifically and irresponsibly, engage in violence (mainly directed at each other) and mark their territories with gang graffiti.”

    We also see this same pattern amongst capitalists, some of whom are white males. You know, the ones that are the engines of civilization. They have affairs and illegitimate children, rob people blind through laws or the watering down of legislation that benefit themselves and their their cronies, and create empires of vast paper illusion. This perpetual, vicious conduct is similar to that of the “underclass”. So, using your own metric, society ought to spay and neuter them as well. Certainly these behaviors also caused by an “overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect”.

    Praytell, how do you plan to implement this noble endeavor of castration? How will you convince the general public that this course of action is necessary? Perhaps Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes will provide you with inspiration. After all, three generations of imbeciles is enough.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Corvinus

    Personally, I favor eugenics for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but most especially in bed.

    Why people tend to get upset when I casually mention my approval of eugenic policies (as I frequently do) is something I just don't get. I don't advocate killing people. I don't advocate abortion, I don't even favor involuntary sterilization or neutering/spaying of anyone not convicted of serious violent or antisocial crime.

    I do believe there should be incentives for people whose progeny are very likely to have miserable lives and to make the lives of others even more miserable, to not create such progeny in the first place. Given the immense toll such people inflict on society the incentives can be pretty big, relatively speaking.

    We now have the tools to pretty effectively determine who is going to have children who are not going to be an asset to society, just as we can predict whose children are likely to have serious health problems, and we can do something about it.

    If we choose to not do it, we are morally culpable for the results. Oliver Wendell Holmes was in fact exactly right.

    , @Crawfurdmuir
    @Corvinus

    'We also see this same pattern amongst capitalists, some of whom are white males. You know, the ones that are the engines of civilization. They have affairs and illegitimate children, rob people blind through laws or the watering down of legislation that benefit themselves and their their cronies, and create empires of vast paper illusion. This perpetual, vicious conduct is similar to that of the “underclass”. So, using your own metric, society ought to spay and neuter them as well. Certainly these behaviors also caused by an “overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect”.'

    Putting aside your vulgar-Marxist attempt to equate "capitalists" with lumpenprole street criminals, surely you must admit that weakness of intellect is not characteristic of the successful capitalist. Such people rise to economic heights precisely because they are intelligent. Society's failure to inculcate the old aristocratic virtues of aretē and philotimia in its natural leadership class explains their transgressions. They, unlike the naturally stupid and vicious, at least have the capacity to learn those virtues.

    Instituting a program to spay or neuter low-IQ street criminals would be a relatively simple proposition. Administer an IQ test to every person arrested for a felony. Offer those with IQs below (say) 95 the following options: 1) castration/spaying, followed by suitable post-operative care and release, or 2) a long prison sentence, perhaps even execution (depending upon the severity of the offense). If this provided inadequate inducement, even offering a bonus of some sort for choosing option #1 might be considered. This would be especially desirable with juvenile offenders, so as to provide especial incentive to nip their procreative faculties, as it were, in the bud.

  127. Couldn’t happen to better folk.

  128. @Corvinus
    Mr. Mitchell—

    “The problem is “disparate impact”. The percentage of blacks that need to be “dealt with” as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today’s American society.”

    Why is it impossible? I mean, how can people just be so dense!

    “In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.”

    Eugenics. It ain't for breakfast, anymore.

    Crawfudmuir—“Do we not see the same pattern amongst the underclass? They procreate prolifically and irresponsibly, engage in violence (mainly directed at each other) and mark their territories with gang graffiti.”

    We also see this same pattern amongst capitalists, some of whom are white males. You know, the ones that are the engines of civilization. They have affairs and illegitimate children, rob people blind through laws or the watering down of legislation that benefit themselves and their their cronies, and create empires of vast paper illusion. This perpetual, vicious conduct is similar to that of the “underclass”. So, using your own metric, society ought to spay and neuter them as well. Certainly these behaviors also caused by an “overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect”.

    Praytell, how do you plan to implement this noble endeavor of castration? How will you convince the general public that this course of action is necessary? Perhaps Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes will provide you with inspiration. After all, three generations of imbeciles is enough.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @Crawfurdmuir

    Personally, I favor eugenics for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but most especially in bed.

    Why people tend to get upset when I casually mention my approval of eugenic policies (as I frequently do) is something I just don’t get. I don’t advocate killing people. I don’t advocate abortion, I don’t even favor involuntary sterilization or neutering/spaying of anyone not convicted of serious violent or antisocial crime.

    I do believe there should be incentives for people whose progeny are very likely to have miserable lives and to make the lives of others even more miserable, to not create such progeny in the first place. Given the immense toll such people inflict on society the incentives can be pretty big, relatively speaking.

    We now have the tools to pretty effectively determine who is going to have children who are not going to be an asset to society, just as we can predict whose children are likely to have serious health problems, and we can do something about it.

    If we choose to not do it, we are morally culpable for the results. Oliver Wendell Holmes was in fact exactly right.

  129. @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar


    Because white people are not responsible for what they think. Not much of a compliment there, Ben.
     
    I'm not interested in complimenting White people. The truth isn't always pretty.

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    The problem isn’t blacks, mestizos, orientals, Jews or anyone else. The problem is white people who can’t face reality. Solve that and the other issues are all easily fixable.

    The white race has to want to live, to survive as a people, and it has to want it bad enough to be willing to do the one thing people through the ages have most resisted: to think, to think rationally, and to act on its own rational conclusions.

    No one else has to be exterminated or even brutalized as a people. In fact, survival of the white race, as a race, will benefit all the other races. If whites go extinct, a massive die-off is absolutely guaranteed. The world’s population will plunge to 1600-1800 AD levels and probably in thirty years. Another disease, like AIDS or Ebola, will spring up in Africa, and it will depopulate the continent: even if it doesn’t African blacks on their own can only subsistence farm, which won’t feed more than a couple hundred million people, and even that only when with the remnants of white technology they’ve exterminated the lions, leopards, crocs, rhinos, and all other African wildlife. Japan and perhaps Korea and Taiwan will hold on to “western style” technology and society, along with perhaps isolated pockets in China, but the rest of Asia will return to being as it was before the fifteenth century. Ten thousand years of technology will go away.

  130. @Captain Tripps
    @Boomstick

    The 20th century was one long struggle against totalitarian socialist ideologies. It was bloody and horrible, but at least it should've been definitive. If there is one thing we should all be able to agree on at this late date, is that the earth is round and socialism is intrinsically dysfunctional and evil. Okay, sure, socialism was a nice idea that seemed like it could pan out back in the 1840s. But at the distance of centuries of experience, millions of corpses and devastated nations and economies, how is it that a guy can present himself as a candidate for president of the world's largest economy once again waving the same banner of socialism that seemed fresh and new in 1920, and less so ever since? To be so willfully ignorant of history and cause and effect is to be fundamentally evil.
    The fact that he honeymooned in the world's largest tyranny is unsurprising. How are we electing guys like Diblasio and Sanders?

    Replies: @Rob McX

    I can’t see socialism and capitalism as an either/or situation. In every country in in the world, state interference in the in citizens’ lives is somewhere on a sliding scale, between state ownership of everything at the one end and the complete economic freedom that libertarians dream of at the other. Most “capitalist” countries are halfway across the spectrum.

    I don’t think either of these extremes has ever existed in reality. In communist countries, a black market always emerged by itself as an underground counterpart to the “controlled economy”.

    Nor was there ever a complete “free market economy”. In a situation where the state is weak (or hasn’t yet emerged), the strong and greedy grab more for themselves, kin loyalty trumps economic interests, etc.

    When you see all the big corporate bosses joining the open-borders SJWs in clamouring for more immigration, you can see that capitalism as it now stands is out to destroy us.

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    @Rob McX

    'What people with lots of money do' is not the definition of Capitalism. When you see corporate folks eagerly calling for more immigration, they are attempting to subvert the supply boundary on labor -- which is what sets the true price of labor. It's not that capitalism is "out to destroy" anyone, just that power and money are always attracted to one another. Those with money have discovered that they can manipulate the labor market by subverting immigration law and paying off those who hold the levers of power. I see that as more an indictment of those in power (who were, after all, ELECTED to represent their constituent interests, unlike the 'corporate bosses'.) When power is for sale, the seller is more culpable than the buyer.

    If you are of voting age and fail to see the distinct moral and civilizational ideology that is socialistic thinking, and how it differs from the private choice model of liberal capitalism, you have a fair bit of reading to do. They are not in any way ends of a "spectrum" (as socialists want us to believe), they are profoundly different ways of regarding the relationship of the individual to the society. While capitalist and socialist ideologies can often co-exist temporarily in the same economy, they are completely distinct orientations to the problems of society. In general it is simply a transitional phase between liberal capitalist and oppressive socialist, as more and more of the proper roles of individual "private choice" become absorbed by the "social good" concerns of Leviathan.
    You know you have transitioned into a fully socialist society when the most reliable path to wealth is a career in government.

  131. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “The Democrats have benefited from the decline of the crime problem. But it’s recent explosion precisely in places where Democrats are pandering hardest to blacks — e.g., St. Louis, Baltimore, and Capitol Hill — indicates the problems Democrats will face in future decades keeping their black constituents from driving out their nonblack sympathizers.”

    Section 8.

    Send blacks to Republican or white working class communities and blame them for ‘racism’.

  132. @anonymous

    Police officers and other public officials in the District of Columbia also point to a new volatile class of synthetic street drugs: “They can go from half asleep to combative and raging,” Holly O’Byrne, a paramedic, told The Washington Post, noting that “The drug is a game changer.”
     
    Over a hundred years ago people were saying that various drugs back then were putting blacks into wild manic rages. Nothing has changed since then. Nobody ever seems to learn anything but the wheel has to be re-invented every thirty years or so. The Coates faction wants special privileges to be accorded blacks and thus be given less incarceration because they realize blacks will never be able to alter their behavior so therefore the behavior should be accepted. Get mugged and robbed? Just deal with it and move on, like the Roman saying 'When encountering the barbarians, if you value your life give them everything you have'. Nowadays you're supposed to just give them your phone and wallet and get down on your hands and knees and beg them not to hurt you.

    Replies: @Alice, @Luke Lea, @pyrrhus

    You beat me to it….There is always some trendy new excuse for the genetically violent nature of Africans, but nothing has changed.

  133. @Rob McX
    @Captain Tripps

    I can't see socialism and capitalism as an either/or situation. In every country in in the world, state interference in the in citizens' lives is somewhere on a sliding scale, between state ownership of everything at the one end and the complete economic freedom that libertarians dream of at the other. Most "capitalist" countries are halfway across the spectrum.

    I don't think either of these extremes has ever existed in reality. In communist countries, a black market always emerged by itself as an underground counterpart to the "controlled economy".

    Nor was there ever a complete "free market economy". In a situation where the state is weak (or hasn't yet emerged), the strong and greedy grab more for themselves, kin loyalty trumps economic interests, etc.

    When you see all the big corporate bosses joining the open-borders SJWs in clamouring for more immigration, you can see that capitalism as it now stands is out to destroy us.

    Replies: @Captain Tripps

    ‘What people with lots of money do’ is not the definition of Capitalism. When you see corporate folks eagerly calling for more immigration, they are attempting to subvert the supply boundary on labor — which is what sets the true price of labor. It’s not that capitalism is “out to destroy” anyone, just that power and money are always attracted to one another. Those with money have discovered that they can manipulate the labor market by subverting immigration law and paying off those who hold the levers of power. I see that as more an indictment of those in power (who were, after all, ELECTED to represent their constituent interests, unlike the ‘corporate bosses’.) When power is for sale, the seller is more culpable than the buyer.

    If you are of voting age and fail to see the distinct moral and civilizational ideology that is socialistic thinking, and how it differs from the private choice model of liberal capitalism, you have a fair bit of reading to do. They are not in any way ends of a “spectrum” (as socialists want us to believe), they are profoundly different ways of regarding the relationship of the individual to the society. While capitalist and socialist ideologies can often co-exist temporarily in the same economy, they are completely distinct orientations to the problems of society. In general it is simply a transitional phase between liberal capitalist and oppressive socialist, as more and more of the proper roles of individual “private choice” become absorbed by the “social good” concerns of Leviathan.
    You know you have transitioned into a fully socialist society when the most reliable path to wealth is a career in government.

  134. @Corvinus
    Mr. Mitchell—

    “The problem is “disparate impact”. The percentage of blacks that need to be “dealt with” as a percentage of the overall population is probably an order of magnitude higher than the number of whites. Therefore, this alone makes sufficiently powerful action impossible in today’s American society.”

    Why is it impossible? I mean, how can people just be so dense!

    “In a similar vein, sterilizing all white men under 85 IQ would benefit the white race hugely. Sterilizing all blacks in America under 85 IQ would mean at least 40% of them, and to do it in Africa would be literally genocide-certain tribes would literally cease to exist.”

    Eugenics. It ain't for breakfast, anymore.

    Crawfudmuir—“Do we not see the same pattern amongst the underclass? They procreate prolifically and irresponsibly, engage in violence (mainly directed at each other) and mark their territories with gang graffiti.”

    We also see this same pattern amongst capitalists, some of whom are white males. You know, the ones that are the engines of civilization. They have affairs and illegitimate children, rob people blind through laws or the watering down of legislation that benefit themselves and their their cronies, and create empires of vast paper illusion. This perpetual, vicious conduct is similar to that of the “underclass”. So, using your own metric, society ought to spay and neuter them as well. Certainly these behaviors also caused by an “overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect”.

    Praytell, how do you plan to implement this noble endeavor of castration? How will you convince the general public that this course of action is necessary? Perhaps Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes will provide you with inspiration. After all, three generations of imbeciles is enough.

    Replies: @Former Darfur, @Crawfurdmuir

    ‘We also see this same pattern amongst capitalists, some of whom are white males. You know, the ones that are the engines of civilization. They have affairs and illegitimate children, rob people blind through laws or the watering down of legislation that benefit themselves and their their cronies, and create empires of vast paper illusion. This perpetual, vicious conduct is similar to that of the “underclass”. So, using your own metric, society ought to spay and neuter them as well. Certainly these behaviors also caused by an “overabundance of sex hormones in tandem with a relative weakness of intellect”.’

    Putting aside your vulgar-Marxist attempt to equate “capitalists” with lumpenprole street criminals, surely you must admit that weakness of intellect is not characteristic of the successful capitalist. Such people rise to economic heights precisely because they are intelligent. Society’s failure to inculcate the old aristocratic virtues of aretē and philotimia in its natural leadership class explains their transgressions. They, unlike the naturally stupid and vicious, at least have the capacity to learn those virtues.

    Instituting a program to spay or neuter low-IQ street criminals would be a relatively simple proposition. Administer an IQ test to every person arrested for a felony. Offer those with IQs below (say) 95 the following options: 1) castration/spaying, followed by suitable post-operative care and release, or 2) a long prison sentence, perhaps even execution (depending upon the severity of the offense). If this provided inadequate inducement, even offering a bonus of some sort for choosing option #1 might be considered. This would be especially desirable with juvenile offenders, so as to provide especial incentive to nip their procreative faculties, as it were, in the bud.

  135. We already let the bleeding hearts try this in the 60s and 70s. Society and poverty are too blame. Punishment is wrong and primitive. We need to address the causes and rehabilitate, blah, blah, blah. And it was a disaster. How could anyone argue otherwise? Yet rather than learning from history, people are starting down this familiar and dangerous path: the jails are too black, everyone’s in there for smoking weed, mandatory minimums and three strikes are unfair, police brutality, etc. A lot of the sentencing laws actually are unfair and inflexible and ideally we would rely on the discretion and wisdom of judges to give appropriate sentences. But the courts are too infested with radicals, so such laws are an unfortunate necessity. Similarly, I’m uncomfortable with a lot of the police practices, but what the hell do you expect in Baltimore and other places? Again, an unfortunate necessity.

  136. “Why people tend to get upset when I casually mention my approval of eugenic policies (as I frequently do) is something I just don’t get. I don’t advocate killing people. I don’t advocate abortion, I don’t even favor involuntary sterilization or neutering/spaying of anyone not convicted of serious violent or antisocial crime.”

    Exactly why you don’t get it. You only have an inkling as to whether or not if the offspring of criminals willor will not be potential assets.

    “We now have the tools to pretty effectively determine who is going to have children who are not going to be an asset to society, just as we can predict whose children are likely to have serious health problems, and we can do something about it.”

    Praytell, what are those tools you speak of? Moreover, if said tools are that efficient, and the markers abundantly clear regarding those individuals likely to commit henious acts, then doing something about it means more than sterilizing men and women who are in prison. It means sterilizing their entire families to get at the true root of the problem. Regardless of your twisted sense of morality and justice, your proposal will fall on deaf ears.

    “Putting aside your vulgar-Marxist attempt to equate capitalists with lumpenprole street criminals…”

    There is no Marxist effort on my part, just factual information offered. White collar crime committed by capitalists is an affront to natural law.

    “…surely you must admit that weakness of intellect is not characteristic of the successful capitalist.”

    The successful capitalist that used illegal means to accomplish his/her goals, knowing full well that their conduct was illegal, is a clear example of weakness of intellect.

    “Such people rise to economic heights precisely because they are intelligent.”

    And some, using that intelligence, to break numerous laws to ensure they get to that mountaintop is infinitely more dangerous than the average street thug. Therefore, employing your own rationale, the capitalist who commits such vile acts must pay the price–no future offspring.

    “Society’s failure to inculcate the old aristocratic virtues of aret and philotimia in its natural leadership class explains their transgressions.”

    There is observably no such thing as “natural leadership class”. Moreover, there is no love of honor, just avarice by thieves.

    “They, unlike the naturally stupid and vicious, at least have the capacity to learn those virtues.”

    There is observably no such thing as the “naturally stupid and vicious”. And giving a pass to white collar criminals is notably hypocritical.

    “Instituting a program to spay or neuter low-IQ street criminals would be a relatively simple proposition”.

    A proposition with scant support, so your plan is nothing more than mental masturbation. See, you are being inconsistent in your approach. You are making an exception for white collar criminals on the assumption that they have the ability and willingness to change their ways. Nay, these individuals who hatched a plan to bilk investors or Joe Q. Public hundreds of thousands of dollars represent a depraved indifference to humanity, and therefore, like the street thug, must pay the ultimate price–snip, snip. There are no second chances. Otherwise, you are merely putting a band-aid to the gushing wound.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    @Corvinus

    "There is no Marxist effort on my part, just factual information offered. White collar crime committed by capitalists is an affront to natural law."

    You seem to equate capitalism with white-collar crime. The vast majority of capitalists are honest people and succeed by honest dealing. It is a hoary Marxist trope to equate capitalists with criminals.

    "The successful capitalist that used illegal means to accomplish his/her goals, knowing full well that their conduct was illegal, is a clear example of weakness of intellect."

    Weakness of morals, perhaps - not of intellect. They are two different qualities.

    "There is observably no such thing as the “naturally stupid and vicious”. And giving a pass to white collar criminals is notably hypocritical."

    Do you admit that there is such a thing as the natural distribution of IQ? There most certainly is a difference between the IQ 85 street thug and the IQ 130+ fraudster.

    I do not give a pass to the latter - execution might be appropriate for such a person, as was formerly practiced (as in the cases of Dr. William Dodd or Henry Fauntleroy. However, spaying or neutering a high-IQ criminal would serve no eugenic purpose, as it would in the case of low-IQ criminals.

    Criminality on the part of the intelligent results from a failing in their education; criminality on the part of the stupid results from their ineducability.

    , @Crawfurdmuir
    @Corvinus

    "There is observably no such thing as “natural leadership class”. Moreover, there is no love of honor, just avarice by thieves."

    Then, you disagree with Thomas Jefferson, who wrote:

    "The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government?"

  137. @Corvinus
    “Why people tend to get upset when I casually mention my approval of eugenic policies (as I frequently do) is something I just don’t get. I don’t advocate killing people. I don’t advocate abortion, I don’t even favor involuntary sterilization or neutering/spaying of anyone not convicted of serious violent or antisocial crime.”

    Exactly why you don’t get it. You only have an inkling as to whether or not if the offspring of criminals willor will not be potential assets.

    “We now have the tools to pretty effectively determine who is going to have children who are not going to be an asset to society, just as we can predict whose children are likely to have serious health problems, and we can do something about it.”

    Praytell, what are those tools you speak of? Moreover, if said tools are that efficient, and the markers abundantly clear regarding those individuals likely to commit henious acts, then doing something about it means more than sterilizing men and women who are in prison. It means sterilizing their entire families to get at the true root of the problem. Regardless of your twisted sense of morality and justice, your proposal will fall on deaf ears.

    "Putting aside your vulgar-Marxist attempt to equate capitalists with lumpenprole street criminals..."

    There is no Marxist effort on my part, just factual information offered. White collar crime committed by capitalists is an affront to natural law.

    “...surely you must admit that weakness of intellect is not characteristic of the successful capitalist.”

    The successful capitalist that used illegal means to accomplish his/her goals, knowing full well that their conduct was illegal, is a clear example of weakness of intellect.

    "Such people rise to economic heights precisely because they are intelligent."

    And some, using that intelligence, to break numerous laws to ensure they get to that mountaintop is infinitely more dangerous than the average street thug. Therefore, employing your own rationale, the capitalist who commits such vile acts must pay the price--no future offspring.

    "Society's failure to inculcate the old aristocratic virtues of aret and philotimia in its natural leadership class explains their transgressions."

    There is observably no such thing as "natural leadership class". Moreover, there is no love of honor, just avarice by thieves.

    "They, unlike the naturally stupid and vicious, at least have the capacity to learn those virtues."

    There is observably no such thing as the "naturally stupid and vicious". And giving a pass to white collar criminals is notably hypocritical.

    "Instituting a program to spay or neuter low-IQ street criminals would be a relatively simple proposition".

    A proposition with scant support, so your plan is nothing more than mental masturbation. See, you are being inconsistent in your approach. You are making an exception for white collar criminals on the assumption that they have the ability and willingness to change their ways. Nay, these individuals who hatched a plan to bilk investors or Joe Q. Public hundreds of thousands of dollars represent a depraved indifference to humanity, and therefore, like the street thug, must pay the ultimate price--snip, snip. There are no second chances. Otherwise, you are merely putting a band-aid to the gushing wound.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir, @Crawfurdmuir

    “There is no Marxist effort on my part, just factual information offered. White collar crime committed by capitalists is an affront to natural law.”

    You seem to equate capitalism with white-collar crime. The vast majority of capitalists are honest people and succeed by honest dealing. It is a hoary Marxist trope to equate capitalists with criminals.

    “The successful capitalist that used illegal means to accomplish his/her goals, knowing full well that their conduct was illegal, is a clear example of weakness of intellect.”

    Weakness of morals, perhaps – not of intellect. They are two different qualities.

    “There is observably no such thing as the “naturally stupid and vicious”. And giving a pass to white collar criminals is notably hypocritical.”

    Do you admit that there is such a thing as the natural distribution of IQ? There most certainly is a difference between the IQ 85 street thug and the IQ 130+ fraudster.

    I do not give a pass to the latter – execution might be appropriate for such a person, as was formerly practiced (as in the cases of Dr. William Dodd or Henry Fauntleroy. However, spaying or neutering a high-IQ criminal would serve no eugenic purpose, as it would in the case of low-IQ criminals.

    Criminality on the part of the intelligent results from a failing in their education; criminality on the part of the stupid results from their ineducability.

  138. @Corvinus
    “Why people tend to get upset when I casually mention my approval of eugenic policies (as I frequently do) is something I just don’t get. I don’t advocate killing people. I don’t advocate abortion, I don’t even favor involuntary sterilization or neutering/spaying of anyone not convicted of serious violent or antisocial crime.”

    Exactly why you don’t get it. You only have an inkling as to whether or not if the offspring of criminals willor will not be potential assets.

    “We now have the tools to pretty effectively determine who is going to have children who are not going to be an asset to society, just as we can predict whose children are likely to have serious health problems, and we can do something about it.”

    Praytell, what are those tools you speak of? Moreover, if said tools are that efficient, and the markers abundantly clear regarding those individuals likely to commit henious acts, then doing something about it means more than sterilizing men and women who are in prison. It means sterilizing their entire families to get at the true root of the problem. Regardless of your twisted sense of morality and justice, your proposal will fall on deaf ears.

    "Putting aside your vulgar-Marxist attempt to equate capitalists with lumpenprole street criminals..."

    There is no Marxist effort on my part, just factual information offered. White collar crime committed by capitalists is an affront to natural law.

    “...surely you must admit that weakness of intellect is not characteristic of the successful capitalist.”

    The successful capitalist that used illegal means to accomplish his/her goals, knowing full well that their conduct was illegal, is a clear example of weakness of intellect.

    "Such people rise to economic heights precisely because they are intelligent."

    And some, using that intelligence, to break numerous laws to ensure they get to that mountaintop is infinitely more dangerous than the average street thug. Therefore, employing your own rationale, the capitalist who commits such vile acts must pay the price--no future offspring.

    "Society's failure to inculcate the old aristocratic virtues of aret and philotimia in its natural leadership class explains their transgressions."

    There is observably no such thing as "natural leadership class". Moreover, there is no love of honor, just avarice by thieves.

    "They, unlike the naturally stupid and vicious, at least have the capacity to learn those virtues."

    There is observably no such thing as the "naturally stupid and vicious". And giving a pass to white collar criminals is notably hypocritical.

    "Instituting a program to spay or neuter low-IQ street criminals would be a relatively simple proposition".

    A proposition with scant support, so your plan is nothing more than mental masturbation. See, you are being inconsistent in your approach. You are making an exception for white collar criminals on the assumption that they have the ability and willingness to change their ways. Nay, these individuals who hatched a plan to bilk investors or Joe Q. Public hundreds of thousands of dollars represent a depraved indifference to humanity, and therefore, like the street thug, must pay the ultimate price--snip, snip. There are no second chances. Otherwise, you are merely putting a band-aid to the gushing wound.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir, @Crawfurdmuir

    “There is observably no such thing as “natural leadership class”. Moreover, there is no love of honor, just avarice by thieves.”

    Then, you disagree with Thomas Jefferson, who wrote:

    “The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government?”

  139. “You seem to equate capitalism with white-collar crime. The vast majority of capitalists are honest people and succeed by honest dealing. It is a hoary Marxist trope to equate capitalists with criminals.”

    You need to improve your reading comprehension skills. There are instances in which capitalists commit white-collar crime. In those specific instances, using your own rationale, when felonies are committed, and convictions obtained, there must be a price to paid for their abject dishonesty. You also have this knack for projection. I am not a Marxist–your characterization is most troubling. And your rabid offense to capitalism, while laudable, ought to be tempered by those individuals who claim that those “honest people” are actually crony capitalists, a most wretched form.

    “Weakness of morals, perhaps – not of intellect. They are two different qualities.”

    There is no “perhaps”. A white collar criminal, with their high level of intelligence, knows right from wrong compared to other groups. Willingly employing unscrupulous means to get ahead requires execution and savvy, which are two characteristics of intellect. Besides, I thought that high IQ types, with their extreme levels of education, would have been repeatedly exposed to the “aristocratic virtues of aretē and philotimia”. Therefore, your argument that high IQ types would suffer from “weakness of morals” holds no water.

    ”Do you admit that there is such a thing as the natural distribution of IQ? There most certainly is a difference between the IQ 85 street thug and the IQ 130+ fraudster.”

    There is no difference. Both engage in criminality. Both are deserving, using your own metrics, of having their balls lopped off or their fallopian tubes severed as a result of their crimes.

    “However, spaying or neutering a high-IQ criminal would serve no eugenic purpose, as it would in the case of low-IQ criminals.”

    It most definitively would serve a eugenic purpose, as you clearly stated you believe in a natural distribution of IQ. Using your own rationale, high-IQ criminal would pass their desirable traits to their offspring, making it more likely their children will engage in similar behavior.

    “I do not give a pass to the latter – execution might be appropriate for such a person.”

    Why? You stated that these individuals are able to be “saved”, since they have the capacity to “(re)learn those virtues”. Now you are proposing to execute them for their crimes? You are being wildly inconsistent.

    “Criminality on the part of the intelligent results from a failing in their education; criminality on the part of the stupid results from their ineducability.”

    Those who are intelligent failed miserably in their education by consciously making a decision to outright break the law to commit fraud against their fellow citizens. Furthermore, if you are of the belief the stupid commits crime because they are unable to be educated, then your plan to only spay/neuter criminals woefully falls short of its noble intentions. Might as well expand eugenics to include any and all deemed “stupid” on the sole basis of on an IQ test.

    Your inhumanity is approaching legendary status. That is something not to be proud of.

  140. Best line: “an economy that does not perform for a group of people.”

    Didn’t people used to perform economically? Now we expect the economy to perform for them…

  141. Then, you disagree with Thomas Jefferson, who wrote:

    “The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government?”

    Here is what Jefferson meant by “natural aristocracy”. Nature has determined that certain people will have more talents and virtue than others. Now, who are those people? NOT an aristocracy of blood ties and family bonds, but an aristocracy of farmer-philosophers. Well, agrarian intellectuals have been replaced by their white and blue collar brethren. Virtue, wisdom, ability–these traits are found among all classes, all races, all ethnic groups, and among men and women.

    What consists of “virtue, wisdom, ability” depends on who one talks to.

  142. ‘I thought that high IQ types, with their extreme levels of education, would have been repeatedly exposed to the “aristocratic virtues of aretē and philotimia”. ‘

    In today’s educational system? Don’t be ridiculous. The problem is precisely that they are not. An elite that has no morality is not an aristocracy, but a nomenklatura. The latter is what we increasingly have.

    ‘Using your own rationale, high-IQ criminal would pass their desirable traits to their offspring, making it more likely their children will engage in similar behavior.’

    You’re arguing against yourself here. High-IQ individuals do pass their desirable traits (high capacity for learning) on to their offspring. However, they do not pass what they have learned (immoral behavior) on to them. Acquired characteristics are not hereditary. In recent history, only Marxists (like Lysenko) seem to have believed that they are.

    ‘You stated that these individuals [i.e., white-collar criminals] are able to be “saved”, since they have the capacity to “(re)learn those virtues”.’

    I never said that I believed that white-collar criminals could be :saved” or could “re-learn” virtues. What I said was that they had failed to learn them. I don’t believe in rehabilitation. However, spaying or neutering would not render such people less harmful and would certainly not accomplish any eugenic goal. The idea of spaying or neutering low-IQ criminals is to render them tractable, their criminality being the result of animal instinct, red in tooth and claw, prevailing over the higher faculty of reason. White-collar crime does not have the same origins, hence the same remedy will not work both for it and for violent street thuggery.

    Deterrent punishment is more likely to discourage the intelligent from offending than it is the unintelligent. This is why the upper and middle classes show relatively tendency to commit crimes. They are already deterred from doing so. It is the lower class that is not. Look at the social origins of our prison population – it is overwhelmingly drawn from the lower orders.

    ‘Nature has determined that certain people will have more talents and virtue than others. Now, who are those people? NOT an aristocracy of blood ties and family bonds, but an aristocracy of farmer-philosophers. Well, agrarian intellectuals have been replaced by their white and blue collar brethren. Virtue, wisdom, ability–these traits are found among all classes, all races, all ethnic groups, and among men and women.’

    An aristocracy of merit will sooner or later become one of blood, because native intelligence is, after all, native (inborn), and as the evidence shows, largely hereditary. See Galton, Terman, etc. The mechanisms of assortative mating are more conducive than ever to this. An intelligent man is more likely to meet and marry an intelligent woman today, while both are attending a selective university, than he would have been in the past, when members of the then-elites found suitable spouses at debutante balls or through introductions facilitated by the Social Register.

    Education has been broadened to an extent that its benefits have reached just about all who are educable. The prospect of plucking some diamond-in-the-rough from a slum today is much slimmer than it would have been a century, or even half-a-century, ago. Its potential for general uplift of social conditions is therefore much less than it has been in the past (see Tyler Cowen). The underclass (from which the vast majority of criminals come) is also the stupid class. Controlling the lower orders is the principal task of the police; removing not only their capacity to reproduce, but the sex hormones that, unchecked by higher faculties, drive their misbehavior, would be the social benefit of gelding and spaying them.

  143. “ I n t o d a y s e d u c a t i o n a l s y s t e m ? D o n ‘t b e r i d i c u l o u s .
    T h e p r o b l e m i s p r e c i s e l y t h a t t h e y a r e n o t . A n e l i t e
    t h a t h a s n o m o r a l i t y i s n o t a n a r i s t o c r a c y , b u t a
    n o m e n k l a t u r a . T h e l a t t e r i s w h a t w e i n c r e a s i n g l y h a v e .

    You are making the assumption that today’s elite overall is devoid of morality. SOME fit that description. And one need only look at world history regarding the “aristocracy”. In general, they obtained their wealth, status, and power not by talent and virtue alone, but through ruthlessness and cruelty, which are in-born traits.

    “ Y o u’ r e a r g u i n g a g a i n s t y o u r s e l f h e r e . H i g h – I Q i n d i v i d u a l s d o p a s s t h e i r d e s i r a b l e t r a i t s ( h i g h c a p a c i t y f o r l e a r n i n g ) o n t o
    t h e i r o f f s p r i n g . H o w e v e r , t h e y d o n o t p a s s w h a t t h e y h a v e
    l e a r n e d ( i m m o r a l b e h a v i o r ) o n t o t h e m .”

    Immoral behavior is in-born for the lower classes, but a learned phenomenon for the upper classes? Sir, you have a thorough disconnect. Those high-IQ individuals also pass on their undesirable traits to their offspring–hot-headedness, greed, lack of concern for the well-being of others. These personality characteristics are in-born and are found in all populations.

    “I n e v e r s a i d t h a t I b e l i e v e d t h a t w h i t e – c o l l a r c r i m i n a l s c o u l d b e s a v e d o r c o u l d r e – l e a r n v i r t u e s . W h a t I s a i d w a s t h a t t h e y h a d f a i l e d t o l e a r n t h e m.”

    If you believe that today’s high IQ individuals failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong, then they must not be that bright after all, and thus, akin to the lower social classes, engage in “animialistic” behaviors. Furthermore, you need to carefully discern what you wrote. You stated spaying or neutering a high-IQ criminal would serve no eugenic purpose compared to low-IQ criminals. You are indeed “saving” them from a similar fate.

    “W h i t e – c o l l a r c r i m e d o e s n o t h a v e t h e s a m e o r i g i n s , h e n c e t h e s a m e r e m e d y w i l l n o t w o r k b o t h f o r i t a n d f o r v i o l e n t s t r e e t t h u g g e r y .”

    Patently false. White-collar is the result of a person’s innate qualities and environmental conditions similar to violent street thuggery.

    “ D e t e r r e n t p u n i s h m e n t i s m o r e l i k e l y t o d i s c o u r a g e
    t h e i n t e l l i g e n t f r o m o f f e n d i n g t h a n i t i s t h e
    u n i n t e l l i g e n t . T h i s i s w h y t h e u p p e r a n d m i d d l e c l a s s e s s h o w r e l a t i v e l y t e n d e n c y t o c o m m i t c r i m e s . T h e y a r e
    a l r e a d y d e t e r r e d f r o m d o i n g s o . I t i s t h e l o w e r c l a s s
    t h a t i s n o t .”

    Given the fact that white-collar crime, which is the topic of conversation here, not general offenses committed by “high IQ” or “low IQ” types, has been steadily rising for the past decade, with major national and international prosecutions of said criminals, your assertion is inaccurate.

    “L o o k a t t h e s o c i a l o r i g i n s o f o u r p r i s o n p o p u l a t i o n. I t i s o v e r w h e l m i n g l y d r a w n f r o m t h e l o w e r o r d e r s .”

    You are making the same categorical error as Terman. He had concluded that the average IQ of nearly two dozen children in a California orphanage was exclusively the result of them being brought up by “inferior social classes”, without taking into consideration that living without parents in an institution would invariably impact a child’s intellectual and social development.

    “ A n a r i s t o c r a c y o f m e r i t w i l l s o o n e r o r l a t e r b e c o m e
    o n e o f b l o o d , b e c a u s e n a t i v e i n t e l l i g e n c e i s , a f t e r a l l , n a t i v e ( i n b o r n ) , a n d a s t h e e v i d e n c e s h o w s , l a r g e l y
    h e r e d i t a r y . S e e G a l t o n , T e r m a n , e t c .”

    You had just proposed our current education system is inferior; therefore, by this admission, this “aristocracy of merit” cannot legitimately become “one of blood”. Moreover, meta-analysis of dozens of studies regarding IQ demonstrates thoroughly that IQ is a combination of heredity and environment. It is the toadies of either side of the argument that seek to discount opposing research.

    “T h e u n d e r c l a s s ( f r o m w h i c h t h e v a s t m a j o r i t y o f
    c r i m i n a l s c o m e ) i s a l s o t h e s t u p i d c l a s s . C o n t r o l l i n g
    t h e l o w e r o r d e r s i s t h e p r i n c i p a l t a s k o f t h e p o l i c e ;
    r e m o v i n g n o t o n l y t h e i r c a p a c i t y t o r e p r o d u c e , b u t t h e s e x h o r m o n e s t h a t , u n c h e c k e d b y h i g h e r f a c u l t i e s ,
    d r i v e t h e i r m i s b e h a v i o r , w o u l d b e t h e s o c i a l b e n e f i t o f g e l d i n g a n d s p a y i n g t h e m .”

    There is also observably no such thing as “the stupid class”. Again, who determines this IQ Maginot line? How is this “gelding and spaying them” policy implemented? How do you propose to handle the inevitable backlash? Exactly why your plan is NOT going anywhere, nor should it. You have the liberty to propose and advocate for its advancement, just be prepared to be summarily dismissed. The smell of your elitism on this particular matter induces nausea.

  144. ‘Immoral behavior is in-born for the lower classes, but a learned phenomenon for the upper classes? Sir, you have a thorough disconnect. Those high-IQ individuals also pass on their undesirable traits to their offspring–hot-headedness, greed, lack of concern for the well-being of others. These personality characteristics are in-born and are found in all populations.’

    Morality is learnt. Instinct is inborn. There is a difference between conscious violation of the moral law, which the intelligent fraudster commits, and reversion to instinct such as is committed by the street thug, who overpowers and kills, steals, or rapes his victim as would a ravening beast. The remedies for the two classes of criminals are as different as the nature of their offenses.

    ‘If you believe that today’s high IQ individuals failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong, then they must not be that bright after all, and thus, akin to the lower social classes, engage in “animialistic” behaviors.’

    I never said that “today’s high IQ individuals” failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong – only that very small percentage of them that were white-collar criminals.

    ‘You had just proposed our current education system is inferior; therefore, by this admission, this “aristocracy of merit” cannot legitimately become “one of blood”. ‘

    Again you misstate what I wrote, which is that our current educational system does not inculcate the aristocratic virtues. However, it is, at least at the level of the selective universities, quite successful at training bright young people in scientific and technical disciplines. Character formation is badly neglected, but that does not mean that the educational system does not excel in other fields, particularly those in which high intelligence is a requisite for success.

    ‘Given the fact that white-collar crime, which is the topic of conversation here, not general offenses committed by “high IQ” or “low IQ” types, has been steadily rising for the past decade, with major national and international prosecutions of said criminals, your assertion is inaccurate.’

    Again, look at the demographics of our prison populations. General criminality was the subject of my initial comment; it was you who brought up white collar crime, and even though it may have been rising for the past decade as you assert, it still accounts for a tiny minority of those found guilty of crimes in general. Your introduction of it is a distraction from the issue of criminality as a whole, which is overwhelmingly a problem of the underclass.

    Look at Table 14 in the linked document:

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf

    This breaks down the number of state prisoners by offense, sex, race, and age. Of the listed offenses, “fraud” is the only category in which persons convicted of white-collar crime could possibly be listed. Of a total of 1,314,900 inmates, only 26,300 were convicted of fraud. That’s approximately 2%.

    ‘There is also observably no such thing as “the stupid class”. Again, who determines this IQ Maginot line? How is this “gelding and spaying them” policy implemented? How do you propose to handle the inevitable backlash?’

    I’ve already proposed the parameters for IQ in my original comment. Furthermore, I’ve suggested that the castration or spaying be an option for the convict to choose as an alternative to a sentence of lengthy incarceration or death. Those that choose to be incarcerated or executed in preference to neutering would of course get their wish. A simple operation, performed under suitable anaesthesia, followed by post-operative care, and a much-abbreviated period of imprisonment, might prove an attractive option to a decade or two in the slammer, or execution. No one would be compelled to elect it.

    The proposal is a way of dealing with the complaint of “mass incarceration” of which we hear so much lately. If you don’t like mass incarceration, and you don’t like my proposal, how do you propose to deal with the violent, animalistic crime for which the majority of criminals are incarcerated?

    ‘The smell of your elitism on this particular matter induces nausea.’

    Well, then, go worship at the porcelain altar. You may not like “elitism,” but hierarchy is nevertheless the natural order of human society. As my old friend Mel Bradford once wrote:

    “Let us have no foolishness, indeed. Equality as a moral or political imperative, pursued as an end in itself – Equality, with the capital “E” – is the antonym of every legitimate conservative principle. Contrary to most Liberals, new and old, it is nothing less than sophistry to distinguish between equality of opportunity (equal starts in the ‘race of life’) and equality of condition (equal results). For only those who are equal can take equal advantage of a given circumstance. And there is no man equal to any other, except perhaps in the special, and politically untranslatable, understand- ing of the Deity. Not intellectually or physically or economically or even morally. Not equal! Such is, of course, the genuinely self-evident pr0position.”

  145. “Morality is learnt. Instinct is inborn. There is a difference between conscious violation of the moral law, which the intelligent fraudster commits, and reversion to instinct such as is committed by the street thug, who overpowers and kills, steals, or rapes his victim as would a ravening beast. The remedies for the two classes of criminals are as different as the nature of their offenses.”

    You are purposely being obtuse. Both the white collar criminal and the street thug act on impulse to knowingly and willfully break the law. They share the common in-born tendency—lack of self-control. Both overpower their intended victims, one with physical force, and one with mental acumen. Their techniques, while markedly different, achieve the same desired result.

    “I never said that “today’s high IQ individuals” failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong – only that very small percentage of them that were white-collar criminals.”

    White collar criminals, which are today’s high IQ individuals, failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong. That is the essence of your statement.

    “Character formation is badly neglected…”

    The urge to be thought superior and excellence of any kind are distinctly embedded in the teaching practices in and programs of universities. What is most dishonorable is your insistence that such phenomenon is significantly lacking.

    “Your introduction of it is a distraction from the issue of criminality as a whole, which is overwhelmingly a problem of the underclass”

    Actually, my example exposed your inconsistent argument—criminals, regardless of their social class origins, their rates of occurrence or recidivism, share inherent traits. Your document, while a credible source, is meaningless in this particular circumstance.

    “I’ve already proposed the parameters for IQ in my original comment.”

    Yes, we know about YOUR proposal. Alas, I surmise you are not a policy maker or a wheeler-dealer, so, as I asserted earlier, your plan is impotent.

    “If you don’t like mass incarceration, and you don’t lie my proposal, how do you propose to deal with the violent, animalistic crime for which the majority of criminals are incarcerated?”

    I’m quite fond of mass incarceration for those who earned such a reward for their misdeeds, I just find your proposal most uncivilized. Regarding how to handle those individuals who commit heinous crimes, well now, I would have to take time away from writing my memoirs. There is simply not enough precious digital ink to spill on that poser.

    “You may not like “elitism,” but hierarchy is nevertheless the natural order of human society.”

    That natural order in a number of instances has been artificially created by man. Your vaunted aristocracy is proof positive.

    “As my old friend Mel Bradford once wrote…”

    The vanguard against natural rights. ‘Nuff said.

  146. ‘Both the white collar criminal and the street thug act on impulse to knowingly and willfully break the law. They share the common in-born tendency—lack of self-control.’

    White-collar criminals commit crimes of the intellect – they must scheme and plan, and in many cases defer gratification for extraordinary lengths of time. It is absurd to characterize their behavior as identical with that of some thug having a 2-digit IQ who observes a naive tourist passing by and decides on the spur of the moment to mug him, or is moved by the sight of a pretty woman to knock her down and rape her.

    As the prison population demographics demonstrate, it is offenses of the latter type that make up the great majority of crimes, and which the measures I propose would deal. Different types of crimes, in any event, require different remedies.

    ‘White collar criminals, which are today’s high IQ individuals, failed to learn the essentials of right and wrong. That is the essence of your statement.’

    Do you seriously claim that ALL of today’s high-IQ individuals are white-collar criminals? That appears to be what you believe – and is quite contrary to fact (very few high-IQ individuals are criminals) – but it is in any event not what I wrote. Furthermore, one cannot be said to have ‘failed to learn’ that which he was never taught.

    ‘The urge to be thought superior and excellence of any kind are distinctly embedded in the teaching practices in and programs of universities. What is most dishonorable is your insistence that such phenomenon is significantly lacking.’

    The “urge to be thought superior and excellence of any kind” are not the same as the aristocratic virtues, which I have previously named – aretē (the capacity for disinterested judgment) and philotimia (love of and adherence to honorable behavior) are. And most certainly the cultivation of those virtues is lacking in today’s educational system. How many colleges today have compulsory chapel, where students might at least occasionally hear exhortations to moral behavior? Those days are long past.

    ‘That natural order in a number of instances has been artificially created by man. Your vaunted aristocracy is proof positive.’

    If it keeps being created by man, in place after place, and time after time, how is it “artificial”? It is a recurrent manifestation of mankind’s inherently unequal character, and quite natural. Even the Marxist paradise of the Soviet Union, founded on the principles of egalitarianism, developed an elite class – the nomenklatura. Every human society beyond the most primitive has been characterized by hierarchy. It is in our nature. There is much truth in the verse of an old Anglican hymn –

    “The rich man in his castle,
    The poor man at his gate,
    God made them high and lowly,
    And ordered their estate.”

    Elites are inevitable. Our aim, therefore, should not be to cast down or eliminate the elite, for another will quickly develop in its place. Rather we should seek to inculcate virtue in those who compose the elite.

  147. “White-collar criminals commit crimes of the intellect – they must scheme and plan, and in many cases defer gratification for extraordinary lengths of time. It is absurd to characterize their behavior as identical with that of some thug having a 2-digit IQ who observes a naive tourist passing by and decides on the spur of the moment to mug him, or is moved by the sight of a pretty woman to knock her down and rape her.”

    Again, in both cases, their temperamental distinctions of lacking guilt, remorse or shame are at the impetus for their crimes. Indeed, their behavior is radically different, which you are fixated upon like a schoolboy’s first crush. It is their COMMON in-born trait that causes the behavior. Regardless of how you spin it, this fact bears out. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension.

    “Do you seriously claim that ALL of today’s high-IQ individuals are white-collar criminals?”

    Now you are floundering by resorting to a strawman. I never directly or indirectly made that claim. I’m not going down your rabbit hole.

    “The “urge to be thought superior and excellence of any kind” are not the same as the aristocratic virtues, which I have previously named – aretē (the capacity for disinterested judgment) and philotimia (love of and adherence to honorable behavior) are. “

    

Arete, in its basic sense, means “excellence of any kind”. Philotimia refers to the “urge to be thought superior”.

    “How many colleges today have compulsory chapel, where students might at least occasionally hear exhortations to moral behavior?”


    Recall that public universities are bound to separation of church and state. Those who attend higher learning facilities are fully capable of attending mass or church services on their own volition. Obviously you were not paying close attention to the word of the Lord when you were of college age.

    
Here is what has historically occurred with people who characterized themselves as “elites” or “aristocrats”–they sit atop their power structure dominating institutions within their isolated network and ostracize those who do not live up to their “gentlemanly conduct”. Along the way, in order to preserve their status against those who intellectually challenges their artificially created hierarchy under the guise of “the natural order of things”, these “elites” or “aristocrats” become corrupt, creating societies predicated on preconceived notions of the “haves” and “have nots”, putting forth hoops so few are able to jump through. Their ambition and discipline are the tools used achieve and preserve that status, most assuredly, in some cases for nefarious purposes. Such is the nature of HUMANITY.

    Now, do not get me wrong, there is a pecking order regarding people who possess specific abilities, from high finance to sports to literature. “Elitism” in this regard is recognized as desirable. However, it is when “elitism” becomes noxious and toxic to society at large when those individuals who, at the higher end of the spectrum who, for a host of reasons, are inclined to use their natural abilities to erect barriers to ensure those on the “bottom” remain there. Recall how the Tidewater plantation owners would use their position to raise taxes at the expense of Piedmont farmers. Both owned property. However, the Tidewater “elite” made it virtually impossible for Piedmont farmers who exhorted virtue and honor from economically ascending. Why? Piedmont farmers were deemed “unsophisticated” and “ill-prepared” to handle the daily affairs of government; thus, the Tidewater “elite” took great pains to keep the “riff raff” out.

    “If it keeps being created by man, in place after place, and time after time, how is it “artificial”?”

    You just said it, created by man.

    “Elites are inevitable. Our aim, therefore, should not be to cast down or eliminate the elite, for another will quickly develop in its place. Rather we should seek to inculcate virtue in those who compose the elite.”

    Something that makes actual sense from you. You probably ought to stop with that line and not ruin the moment.

  148. ‘It is their COMMON in-born trait that causes the behavior. Regardless of how you spin it, this fact bears out. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension.’

    There is a distinction between learned and instinctual behavior. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension.

    Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies reflect instinctual behavior. Those who commit such offenses are bound only by the law of the jungle. Even assuming that ‘white collar crime’ means behavior that causes anyone real damage, such as fraud, and does not refer to some extremely recondite violation, such as ‘insider trading’ (which is not even precisely defined in statute), it is far too complex a behavior to be anything but the product of ratiocination. The offender must learn something even to possess the capacity to commit it.

    ‘Arete, in its basic sense, means “excellence of any kind”. Philotimia refers to the “urge to be thought superior”.’

    In the moral sense, aretē means “goodness, virtue:- also character for virtue, reputation, merit.” Philotimia means “love of honour.” See Liddell and Scott.

    ‘Recall that public universities are bound to separation of church and state.’

    State universities are largely recent entities of no great distinction. My earlier remarks referred to ‘selective universities’ – e.g., Harvard and Yale (founded by Puritan divines); Oxford and Cambridge (founded by the pre-Reformation church). Once they were dedicated to moral instruction and character formation, but this long ago ceased to be among their purposes.

    ‘Here is what has historically occurred with people who characterized themselves as “elites” or “aristocrats”… Their ambition and discipline are the tools used achieve and preserve that status, most assuredly, in some cases for nefarious purposes. Such is the nature of HUMANITY.’

    So, for good or for bad, what leads elites to achieve and preserve their status is “the nature of humanity” – you thus acknowledge that it is not artificial, but quite natural. The nature of humanity is the material with which we have to work. We should seek to inculcate virtue in those who compose the elite, recognizing that they are going to be the elite regardless. And this implies also that those on the bottom of the social and economic ladder are going to be in that position in any event, as well – and for equally good reason.

    All this is off on a significant tangent from my original suggestion, which proposed a way of dealing with the vast majority of criminals: those that are prone to impulsive physical violence, characterized by low intelligence, and of underclass origins. Rendering such specimens tractable and docile by the same means we use for that purpose with companion animals could relieve the unrelenting chaos and bloodshed of our inner cities, in the bargain paying an eugenic dividend. Nothing you have written rebuts this point.

    Wouldn’t you rather have a lower class that made itself useful to the extent its limited intellectual capacities permitted, rather than being a source of inordinate cost to the taxpayers, and a constant threat to domestic tranquillity?

  149. “Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies reflect instinctual behavior.”

    I will make your statement infinitely more accurate—> Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies, similar to impulsive actions to commit fraud and laundering, reflect instinctual behavior predicated by an individual’s predispositions.

    “Those who commit such offenses are bound only by the law of the jungle.”

    Precisely why the white collar criminal, using their guile and guts to hatch and execute a plan they knowingly will destroy the financial viability of their victims is a clear-cut example of a “law of the jungle” mentality.

    “Even assuming that ‘white collar crime’ means behavior that causes anyone real damage…”

    Millions of dollars siphoned off, in some cases leading to bankruptcy for families and businesses, is “real damage”. Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    “…it is far too complex a behavior to be anything but the product of ratiocination.”

    Exactly why the white collar criminal, compared to the street thug, is inherently more dangerous to civilized society when their prolific schemes to extract funds reaches out to a wide audience.

    “In the moral sense, aretē means “goodness, virtue:- also character for virtue, reputation, merit.” Philotimia means “love of honour.” See Liddell and Scott.”

    A cursory search on the Internet and my own resources revealed that the definitions I offered for those two concepts are clearly relevant.

    “Once they were dedicated to moral instruction and character formation, but this long ago ceased to be among their purposes.”

    Blatantly false. https://hbr.org/2006/01/the-discipline-of-building-character

    “So, for good or for bad, what leads elites to achieve and preserve their status is “the nature of humanity” – you thus acknowledge that it is not artificial, but quite natural.”

    It is observably true that some people are more naturally “talented” or “gifted” than others. However, I clearly delineated how and why those inherent abilities are subjectively critiqued and applied.

    “We should seek to inculcate virtue in those who compose the elite, recognizing that they are going to be the elite regardless.”

    They may have been born into the elite, but there are numerous occasions where the in-born talents and abilities of offspring significantly lack compared to their parents or siblings and therefore fail to measure up to that “worthy” status.

    “And this implies also that those on the bottom of the social and economic ladder are going to be in that position in any event, as well – and for equally good reason.”

    You are trapped in the same pit that Terman fell into. Tsk, tsk, a man of your alleged intellect should have been more careful to watch where you are going.

    “Wouldn’t you rather have a lower class that made itself useful to the extent its limited intellectual capacities permitted…”



    Another assumption. Sir, are you done yet with repeatedly making categorical errors? You are like a bull in a china shop when it comes to stating the same thing over and over and over and over again, as if your rationale will be magically be strengthened. Heaven help us.

    “The nature of humanity is the material with which we have to work.”

    I will make your statement infinitely more accurate—> The nature of humanity is the material with which we are born with, yet every person has the capacity and means to maximize our inherent abilities and minimize our in-born flaws through laborious efforts, however great or few the returns in that investment of time and energy. Whether we are able to overcome familial or environmental hazards along the way is the true test of a person’s character.

    “Rendering such specimens tractable and docile by the same means we use for that purpose with companion animals could relieve the unrelenting chaos and bloodshed of our inner cities, in the bargain paying an eugenic dividend. Nothing you have written rebuts this point.”

    It’s not a lie, unless you believe it—George Costanza

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

  150. To come back to my initial point, certain types of crimes are akin to the behavior of sexually entire animals – driven by raging hormones. Thus a tomcat will get into fights, impregnate every female he can, and mark his territory by micturating upon objects in it. These behaviors are driven by testosterone and can be quelled by removing the source of that secretion. My suggestion is that similar behaviors, frequently to be observed amongst the criminal underclass, might be quelled by similar measures.

    So-called white-collar crime, while it is serious, is both comparatively rare and is not the product of hormonal furore triumphing over reason, but rather of reason itself, untrammeled by moral precept. It does not have the same causes and therefore cannot be remedied by the same measures. Do you seriously maintain that Bernie Madoff’s behavior would as appropriately be remedied by castration as would that of an adolescent thug dealing drugs, cutting up his rivals, and begetting bastard children in the slums?

    ‘“Even assuming that ‘white collar crime’ means behavior that causes anyone real damage…”

    ‘Millions of dollars siphoned off, in some cases leading to bankruptcy for families and businesses, is “real damage”. Are you done embarrassing yourself?’

    My observation about the nebulous definition of ‘insider trading’ and the lack of real damage from it was prompted by the recent overturning of a number of insider reading convictions obtained by Preet Bharara, the U.S. District Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and his subsequent dropping of charges against seven defendants. The court found that his charges overreached the law. See:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbobelian/2015/10/23/as-preet-bharara-drops-seven-insider-trading-charges-some-enforcement-might-move-out-of-new-york/

    U.S. District Attorneys are rarely rebuked by the courts for their legal theories, and drop charges only when they are convinced that they cannot prevail in court. The matter of fact is that ‘insider trading’ has been an ill-defined offense and its nature has been repeatedly litigated because of this. One point about all of these cases has been that it’s very hard to identify a real victim in any of them. In many cases charges of insider trading resemble those of ‘economic crimes’ did under the old Soviet Union. Someone has made money, and therefore must be punished!

    ‘They may have been born into the elite, but there are numerous occasions where the in-born talents and abilities of offspring significantly lack compared to their parents or siblings and therefore fail to measure up to that “worthy” status.’

    The historical record is littered with formerly elite families that became extinct or fell from their elite status into decadence and decrepitude for this reason. Such will be the fate of those to whom you refer, just as it has always been. That, too, is natural.

    ‘The nature of humanity is the material with which we are born with, yet every person has the capacity and means to maximize our inherent abilities and minimize our in-born flaws through laborious efforts, however great or few the returns in that investment of time and energy. Whether we are able to overcome familial or environmental hazards along the way is the true test of a person’s character.’

    It’s pretty hard to overcome those hazards if one has an IQ of 85 – and IQ has been shown over and over again to be largely beyond the influence of training or other environmental change. Moreover IQ is about 80% genetically determined. Mr. Sailer has published voluminous information on this point.

    The extension of public education in the past lifted many people out of poverty. By now it has picked almost all the low-hanging fruit and the potential for further improvement through education of those that remain in the underclass is quite limited. Look at the failure of Head Start and similar programs to yield the improvements promised by their advocates. Of course, inner-city schools continue to fail despite being bottomless pits into which the taxpayers’ money has been poured for decades. Today’s underclass represents the genetic dregs of society, and any realistic approach to dealing with its social pathologies must recognize that.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Crawfurdmuir

    “To come back to my initial point, certain types of crimes are akin to the behavior of sexually entire animals – driven by raging hormones. Thus a tomcat will get into fights, impregnate every female he can, and mark his territory by micturating upon objects in it. These behaviors are driven by testosterone and can be quelled by removing the source of that secretion. My suggestion is that similar behaviors, frequently to be observed amongst the criminal underclass, might be quelled by similar measure.”

    Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “So-called white-collar crime, while it is serious, is both comparatively rare and is not the product of hormonal furore triumphing over reason, but rather of reason itself, untrammeled by moral precept. It does not have the same causes and therefore cannot be remedied by the same measures.

    Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “Do you seriously maintain that Bernie Madoff’s behavior would as appropriately be remedied by castration as would that of an adolescent thug dealing drugs, cutting up his rivals, and begetting bastard children in the slums?”

    Yes, since criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “My observation about the nebulous definition of ‘insider trading’ and the lack of real damage...”



    Now you have resorted to attack white collar criminality as being the essence of machinations of overzealous prosecutors and vague statutes. Your defense of the elite, while noble, falls woefully short on logic and reason in light of the observable financial carnage.

    www.therichest.com/business/the-10-most-notorious-white-collar-crimes

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    “Moreover IQ is about 80% genetically determined. Mr. Sailer has published voluminous information on this point.”

    The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood.

    According to this study, a child’s intelligence is 40% genetically determined.

    www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293861/Thank-parents-youre-smart-Up-40-childs-intelligence-inherited-researchers-claim.html

    According to this study, evidence suggests that differences in intelligence are determined by culture.

    blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-heritability-of-intelligence-not-what-you-think/

    Meta-analysis of dozens of studies has also confirmed intelligence is affected by genes and environment, with neither part dominating the other part.

    
Fact being, there is significant controversy in the scientific community regarding intelligence, its causes, and its results.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    “Today’s underclass represents the genetic dregs of society, and any realistic approach to dealing with its social pathologies must recognize that.”

    You enjoy painting broad generalizations. It's not a desirable trait.

  151. @Crawfurdmuir
    To come back to my initial point, certain types of crimes are akin to the behavior of sexually entire animals - driven by raging hormones. Thus a tomcat will get into fights, impregnate every female he can, and mark his territory by micturating upon objects in it. These behaviors are driven by testosterone and can be quelled by removing the source of that secretion. My suggestion is that similar behaviors, frequently to be observed amongst the criminal underclass, might be quelled by similar measures.

    So-called white-collar crime, while it is serious, is both comparatively rare and is not the product of hormonal furore triumphing over reason, but rather of reason itself, untrammeled by moral precept. It does not have the same causes and therefore cannot be remedied by the same measures. Do you seriously maintain that Bernie Madoff's behavior would as appropriately be remedied by castration as would that of an adolescent thug dealing drugs, cutting up his rivals, and begetting bastard children in the slums?

    '“Even assuming that ‘white collar crime’ means behavior that causes anyone real damage…”

    'Millions of dollars siphoned off, in some cases leading to bankruptcy for families and businesses, is “real damage”. Are you done embarrassing yourself?'

    My observation about the nebulous definition of 'insider trading' and the lack of real damage from it was prompted by the recent overturning of a number of insider reading convictions obtained by Preet Bharara, the U.S. District Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and his subsequent dropping of charges against seven defendants. The court found that his charges overreached the law. See:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbobelian/2015/10/23/as-preet-bharara-drops-seven-insider-trading-charges-some-enforcement-might-move-out-of-new-york/

    U.S. District Attorneys are rarely rebuked by the courts for their legal theories, and drop charges only when they are convinced that they cannot prevail in court. The matter of fact is that 'insider trading' has been an ill-defined offense and its nature has been repeatedly litigated because of this. One point about all of these cases has been that it's very hard to identify a real victim in any of them. In many cases charges of insider trading resemble those of 'economic crimes' did under the old Soviet Union. Someone has made money, and therefore must be punished!

    'They may have been born into the elite, but there are numerous occasions where the in-born talents and abilities of offspring significantly lack compared to their parents or siblings and therefore fail to measure up to that “worthy” status.'

    The historical record is littered with formerly elite families that became extinct or fell from their elite status into decadence and decrepitude for this reason. Such will be the fate of those to whom you refer, just as it has always been. That, too, is natural.

    'The nature of humanity is the material with which we are born with, yet every person has the capacity and means to maximize our inherent abilities and minimize our in-born flaws through laborious efforts, however great or few the returns in that investment of time and energy. Whether we are able to overcome familial or environmental hazards along the way is the true test of a person’s character.'

    It's pretty hard to overcome those hazards if one has an IQ of 85 - and IQ has been shown over and over again to be largely beyond the influence of training or other environmental change. Moreover IQ is about 80% genetically determined. Mr. Sailer has published voluminous information on this point.

    The extension of public education in the past lifted many people out of poverty. By now it has picked almost all the low-hanging fruit and the potential for further improvement through education of those that remain in the underclass is quite limited. Look at the failure of Head Start and similar programs to yield the improvements promised by their advocates. Of course, inner-city schools continue to fail despite being bottomless pits into which the taxpayers' money has been poured for decades. Today's underclass represents the genetic dregs of society, and any realistic approach to dealing with its social pathologies must recognize that.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “To come back to my initial point, certain types of crimes are akin to the behavior of sexually entire animals – driven by raging hormones. Thus a tomcat will get into fights, impregnate every female he can, and mark his territory by micturating upon objects in it. These behaviors are driven by testosterone and can be quelled by removing the source of that secretion. My suggestion is that similar behaviors, frequently to be observed amongst the criminal underclass, might be quelled by similar measure.”

    Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “So-called white-collar crime, while it is serious, is both comparatively rare and is not the product of hormonal furore triumphing over reason, but rather of reason itself, untrammeled by moral precept. It does not have the same causes and therefore cannot be remedied by the same measures.

    Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “Do you seriously maintain that Bernie Madoff’s behavior would as appropriately be remedied by castration as would that of an adolescent thug dealing drugs, cutting up his rivals, and begetting bastard children in the slums?”

    Yes, since criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “My observation about the nebulous definition of ‘insider trading’ and the lack of real damage…”



    Now you have resorted to attack white collar criminality as being the essence of machinations of overzealous prosecutors and vague statutes. Your defense of the elite, while noble, falls woefully short on logic and reason in light of the observable financial carnage.

    http://www.therichest.com/business/the-10-most-notorious-white-collar-crimes

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    “Moreover IQ is about 80% genetically determined. Mr. Sailer has published voluminous information on this point.”

    The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood.

    According to this study, a child’s intelligence is 40% genetically determined.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293861/Thank-parents-youre-smart-Up-40-childs-intelligence-inherited-researchers-claim.html

    According to this study, evidence suggests that differences in intelligence are determined by culture.

    blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-heritability-of-intelligence-not-what-you-think/

    Meta-analysis of dozens of studies has also confirmed intelligence is affected by genes and environment, with neither part dominating the other part.

    
Fact being, there is significant controversy in the scientific community regarding intelligence, its causes, and its results.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    “Today’s underclass represents the genetic dregs of society, and any realistic approach to dealing with its social pathologies must recognize that.”

    You enjoy painting broad generalizations. It’s not a desirable trait.

  152. “Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.”

    There is a lot of resemblance between the violence and promiscuity of a tomcat and that of a street thug. There is not, on the other hand, much resemblance between the physical aggressiveness of the street thug and the scheming of the white-collar criminal. If you can’t see this you are simply obtuse.

    The Turks and Arabs had a practice of making eunuchs of their male slaves. These specimens were not known for their violence, and sexual activity on their part in any normal sense was of course completely curtailed. However, their propensity for scheming and intrigue was well known. It is thus reasonable to assume that while neutering violent street criminals would be remedial, doing so with persons guilty of non-violent crimes of ingenuity and manipulation would do no good.

    You seem obsessed with white-collar crime, though it is but a tiny fraction of all crime committed, as shown by the demographics of the prison population; and, indeed, most of the crime categorized as fraud in those reports is not what you seem to have in mind, but is rather made up of such straightforward low-level offenses as check forgery, misappropriation of credit card data, and identity theft. The ten large-scale white collar criminals listed in your link above represent a microscopic number as against the total number of criminals, many of whose offenses were not against property but rather against life or bodily integrity. The remedy I propose is designed to deal with such offenders, who are much more numerous.

    “Fact being, there is significant controversy in the scientific community regarding intelligence, its causes, and its results.”

    To be sure, we must still contend with Richard Lewontin, Leon Kamin, and the late Stephen Jay Gould, along with all their followers, for whom the ideology of Marx and Engels always trumps the science of Darwin and Galton, wherever the former may come into conflict with the latter.

    I do not “defend” the existence of an elite any more than I defend the law of gravity. I just accept the inevitability of both. The hierarchical nature of human societies is as natural as that of a bees’ nest or an ant colony.

  153. “There is a lot of resemblance between the violence and promiscuity of a tomcat and that of a street thug. There is not, on the other hand, much resemblance between the physical aggressiveness of the street thug and the scheming of the white-collar criminal. If you can’t see this you are simply obtuse.”

    Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    Stated in another way–Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies, similar to impulsive actions to commit fraud and laundering, reflect instinctual behavior predicated by an individual’s predispositions.

    Again, in both cases, their temperamental distinctions of lacking guilt, remorse or shame are at the impetus for their crimes. Indeed, their behavior is radically different, which you are fixated upon like a schoolboy’s first crush. It is their COMMON in-born trait that causes the behavior. Regardless of how you spin it, this fact bears out. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension.

    “You seem obsessed with white-collar crime…”

    Not any more obsessed with your insistence that street thugs ought to have their balls or fallopian tubes removed by force. Oklahoma’s Habitual Criminal Sterilization Act (1935) was declared unconstitutional. The exception for white collar crimes is what was chiefly behind the ruling. The Court unanimously held that the Act violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, because white-collar crimes like embezzlement were excluded from the Act’s jurisdiction. Justice William O. Douglas concluded that:

    Oklahoma makes no attempt to say that he who commits larceny by trespass or trick or fraud has biologically inheritable traits which he who commits embezzlement lacks. We have not the slightest basis for inferring that that line has any significance in eugenics, nor that the inheritability of criminal traits follows the neat legal distinctions which the law has marked between those two offenses. In terms of fines and imprisonment, the crimes of larceny and embezzlement rate the same under the Oklahoma code. Only when it comes to sterilization are the pains and penalties of the law different. The equal protection clause would indeed be a formula of empty words if such conspicuously artificial lines could be drawn.

    Checkmate.

    “The ten large-scale white collar criminals listed in your link above represent a microscopic number as against the total number of criminals…”

    Precisely why the white collar criminal, using their guile and guts to hatch and execute a plan they knowingly will destroy the financial viability of their victims is a clear-cut example of a “law of the jungle” mentality and decided evidence that they represent a distinct threat to civilization compared to street thugs.

    “To be sure, we must still contend with Richard Lewontin, Leon Kamin, and the late Stephen Jay Gould, along with all their followers, for whom the ideology of Marx and Engels…”

    
Please stop with the Cultural Marxism meme. It only cheapens your otherwise flimsy arguments.

    “The hierarchical nature of human societies is as natural as that of a bees’ nest or an ant colony.”

    It is observably true that some people are more naturally “talented” or “gifted” than others. However, I clearly delineated how and why those inherent abilities are subjectively critiqued and applied.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

  154. “Stated in another way–Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies, similar to impulsive actions to commit fraud and laundering, reflect instinctual behavior predicated by an individual’s predispositions.”

    Fraud is not a crime of impulse. It is a crime of premeditation, often lengthy.

    If you can find a white collar criminal whose IQ is 85, I’d be happy to advocate his or her neutering. However, it usually takes at least some intelligence to be a white collar criminal. The idea is to deal with the impulsive violence and sexual aggression of the underclass, which is in any event a vastly more common source of crime than the ratiocination of the con-man.

    The 1935 Oklahoma statute to which you refer provided for sterilization (not neutering) and its defenders’ arguments were apparently based on eugenic grounds, as noted in the passage of Douglas’s opinion which you quoted:

    “Oklahoma makes no attempt to say that he who commits larceny by trespass or trick or fraud has biologically inheritable traits which he who commits embezzlement lacks. We have not the slightest basis for inferring that that line has any significance in eugenics, nor that the inheritability of criminal traits follows the neat legal distinctions which the law has marked between those two offenses.”

    The eugenic aspect of neutering street thugs, as with tomcats, bulls and stallions, is less important than is the operation’s potential for simply rendering them tractable and docile. The Douglas opinion is not applicable to this, because sterilization is not the same as neutering. Sterilization (vasectomy or tubal ligation) does not remove the source of the sex hormones that lie behind the violent and aggressive behavior curtailed by castration or spaying.

    White collar criminals do not typically exhibit physical violence and aggression. These are the behaviors that neutering modifies. Therefore neutering would be of little or no value in modifying the kind of misbehavior that white-collar criminals do typically exhibit. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension. Are YOU done embarrassing yourself?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Crawfurdmuir

    “Fraud is not a crime of impulse. It is a crime of premeditation, often lengthy.”

    The impulse to commit fraud, similar to the impulse to commit a street crime, is predicated equally on the perpetrator’s in-born tendencies.

    “The idea is to deal with the impulsive violence and sexual aggression of the underclass, which is in any event a vastly more common source of crime than the ratiocination of the con-man.”

    It is irrelevant regarding what is and what is not common. Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “The Douglas opinion is not applicable to this, because sterilization is not the same as neutering. Sterilization (vasectomy or tubal ligation) does not remove the source of the sex hormones that lie behind the violent and aggressive behavior curtailed by castration or spaying.”

    This precedence can assuredly be applied to neutering; the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment would be violated once again since white-collar crimes would be excluded. Your point is therefore moot.

    “White collar criminals do not typically exhibit physical violence and aggression. These are the behaviors that neutering modifies.”

    Rather, white collar criminals exhibit guile and cunning, which is infinitely more dangerous to society, since they tirelessly work in secret to game the system.

    “Therefore neutering would be of little or no value in modifying the kind of misbehavior that white-collar criminals do typically exhibit.”

    Neutering white collar criminals would be of tremendous value, as it would allay their overt aggression to brutally fame and fortune at the expense of others. Alas, sterilizing and neutering criminals is unconstitutional. Take it up with your Congresscritter.

    "Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension. Are YOU done embarrassing yourself?"

    They say imitation is a form of flattery. Please, by all means, keep up your charade.

  155. @Crawfurdmuir
    "Stated in another way–Impulsive murders, rapes, and violent robberies, similar to impulsive actions to commit fraud and laundering, reflect instinctual behavior predicated by an individual’s predispositions."

    Fraud is not a crime of impulse. It is a crime of premeditation, often lengthy.

    If you can find a white collar criminal whose IQ is 85, I'd be happy to advocate his or her neutering. However, it usually takes at least some intelligence to be a white collar criminal. The idea is to deal with the impulsive violence and sexual aggression of the underclass, which is in any event a vastly more common source of crime than the ratiocination of the con-man.

    The 1935 Oklahoma statute to which you refer provided for sterilization (not neutering) and its defenders' arguments were apparently based on eugenic grounds, as noted in the passage of Douglas's opinion which you quoted:

    "Oklahoma makes no attempt to say that he who commits larceny by trespass or trick or fraud has biologically inheritable traits which he who commits embezzlement lacks. We have not the slightest basis for inferring that that line has any significance in eugenics, nor that the inheritability of criminal traits follows the neat legal distinctions which the law has marked between those two offenses."

    The eugenic aspect of neutering street thugs, as with tomcats, bulls and stallions, is less important than is the operation's potential for simply rendering them tractable and docile. The Douglas opinion is not applicable to this, because sterilization is not the same as neutering. Sterilization (vasectomy or tubal ligation) does not remove the source of the sex hormones that lie behind the violent and aggressive behavior curtailed by castration or spaying.

    White collar criminals do not typically exhibit physical violence and aggression. These are the behaviors that neutering modifies. Therefore neutering would be of little or no value in modifying the kind of misbehavior that white-collar criminals do typically exhibit. Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension. Are YOU done embarrassing yourself?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Fraud is not a crime of impulse. It is a crime of premeditation, often lengthy.”

    The impulse to commit fraud, similar to the impulse to commit a street crime, is predicated equally on the perpetrator’s in-born tendencies.

    “The idea is to deal with the impulsive violence and sexual aggression of the underclass, which is in any event a vastly more common source of crime than the ratiocination of the con-man.”

    It is irrelevant regarding what is and what is not common. Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “The Douglas opinion is not applicable to this, because sterilization is not the same as neutering. Sterilization (vasectomy or tubal ligation) does not remove the source of the sex hormones that lie behind the violent and aggressive behavior curtailed by castration or spaying.”

    This precedence can assuredly be applied to neutering; the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment would be violated once again since white-collar crimes would be excluded. Your point is therefore moot.

    “White collar criminals do not typically exhibit physical violence and aggression. These are the behaviors that neutering modifies.”

    Rather, white collar criminals exhibit guile and cunning, which is infinitely more dangerous to society, since they tirelessly work in secret to game the system.

    “Therefore neutering would be of little or no value in modifying the kind of misbehavior that white-collar criminals do typically exhibit.”

    Neutering white collar criminals would be of tremendous value, as it would allay their overt aggression to brutally fame and fortune at the expense of others. Alas, sterilizing and neutering criminals is unconstitutional. Take it up with your Congresscritter.

    “Why on earth you refuse to admit this observable truth is, I admit, beyond my comprehension. Are YOU done embarrassing yourself?”

    They say imitation is a form of flattery. Please, by all means, keep up your charade.

  156. “Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.”

    Blah, blah, blah. The above is nothing but empty flannel-mouthing and repeating it contributes nothing to the discussion. Physical and sexual aggression are directly linked to the gonads; a large variety of other behaviors, including criminal scheming and intrigue, are not. You haven’t refuted this point.

    “This precedence [sic] can assuredly be applied to neutering; the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment would be violated once again since white-collar crimes would be excluded. Your point is therefore moot.”

    Equal protection of the laws does not prohibit making the punishment fit the crime, or treating a mental illness with a therapy appropriate to it. Different punishments fit different crimes, and different treatments are needed to remedy different illnesses. Suum cuique.

    We know that neutering reduces an organism’s propensities for physical violence and sexual aggression, whether that organism be a tomcat, a bull, or a human. There is ample empirical evidence for that point. There is no such evidence that it reduces the propensity for “guile and cunning.” Indeed, the record of the court eunuchs under the Ottoman sultans or the Manchu emperors suggests that it has none.

    White-collar criminals (if indeed they have committed a straightforward fraud or forgery, and not merely violated some crypto-Bolshevik regulation that criminalizes normal capitalist activity) are deserving of punishment. However it would most likely not do any good to neuter them, based on ample historical observation.

    As for constitutionality – it hardly seems to matter any more even to the principle officers of government. The Constitution is to Americans what the Queen is to Englishmen – formulaically revered, and without authority in practice. To invoke it in a theoretical discussion of this type is an hollow trope.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Crawfurdmuir

    “The above is nothing but empty flannel-mouthing and repeating it contributes nothing to the discussion.”


    It bears repeating because you outright refuse to admit your significant error in logic. Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “There is no such evidence that it reduces the propensity for “guile and cunning.”

    Guile and cunning are manifestations of AGGRESSION, whether it be physically, sexually, or cognitively induced. Cutting off the balls or fallopian tubes of a white collar criminal will significantly curtail his or her propensity to act aggressively, whether overtly displayed or covertly undertaken. A meta-analysis from 2002 analyzed 20 separate studies and concluded low levels of serotonin are significantly correlated with aggressive behaviors, regardless of the type of crime. There is a relationship between serotonin and antisocial behavior, which is a COMMON trait among street thugs and white collar criminals. In other words, BOTH groups have the inherent trait to be impulsive, to antagonize, to manipulate, or to treat others with callous indifference. Their actions, however, may be violent or nonviolent, but their biological underpinnings are SIMILAR IN NATURE. There is growing evidence between brain abnormalities and some types of criminal behavior, but multiple brain regions, complex chemical interactions, and environmental factors all contribute.

    “Different punishments fit different crimes, and different treatments are needed to remedy different illnesses.”

    Except the Supreme Court clearly delineated that the punishment had to have been EXACTLY SIMILAR considering the context of the law. There cannot be any exclusion. Your point is moot.

    “However it would most likely not do any good to neuter them, based on ample historical observation.”

    You are exclusively focusing on animalistic instincts related to physical and sexual aggression, rather than reasonably taking into account other biological and social factors. Repeatedly stating this criteria is the SOLE basis why street thugs commit their heinous acts demonstrates abject ignorance and cruelty to reason. Multiple factors are in play.

    “As for constitutionality – it hardly seems to matter any more even to the principle officers of government. The Constitution is to Americans what the Queen is to Englishmen – formulaically revered, and without authority in practice.”

    That is observably false. The rule of law and and how it is interpreted is under the purview of judges. There will always be intense debate over their decisions. Regardless, the process is orderly and recognized by the citizens of a country as the appropriate means to mete out punishment and justice.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

  157. @Crawfurdmuir
    "Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point."

    Blah, blah, blah. The above is nothing but empty flannel-mouthing and repeating it contributes nothing to the discussion. Physical and sexual aggression are directly linked to the gonads; a large variety of other behaviors, including criminal scheming and intrigue, are not. You haven't refuted this point.

    "This precedence [sic] can assuredly be applied to neutering; the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment would be violated once again since white-collar crimes would be excluded. Your point is therefore moot."

    Equal protection of the laws does not prohibit making the punishment fit the crime, or treating a mental illness with a therapy appropriate to it. Different punishments fit different crimes, and different treatments are needed to remedy different illnesses. Suum cuique.

    We know that neutering reduces an organism's propensities for physical violence and sexual aggression, whether that organism be a tomcat, a bull, or a human. There is ample empirical evidence for that point. There is no such evidence that it reduces the propensity for "guile and cunning." Indeed, the record of the court eunuchs under the Ottoman sultans or the Manchu emperors suggests that it has none.

    White-collar criminals (if indeed they have committed a straightforward fraud or forgery, and not merely violated some crypto-Bolshevik regulation that criminalizes normal capitalist activity) are deserving of punishment. However it would most likely not do any good to neuter them, based on ample historical observation.

    As for constitutionality - it hardly seems to matter any more even to the principle officers of government. The Constitution is to Americans what the Queen is to Englishmen - formulaically revered, and without authority in practice. To invoke it in a theoretical discussion of this type is an hollow trope.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “The above is nothing but empty flannel-mouthing and repeating it contributes nothing to the discussion.”


    It bears repeating because you outright refuse to admit your significant error in logic. Criminal activity, whether white collar or street crime, is the direct result of shared biological underpinnings and social manifestations. You have yet to refute this point.

    “There is no such evidence that it reduces the propensity for “guile and cunning.”

    Guile and cunning are manifestations of AGGRESSION, whether it be physically, sexually, or cognitively induced. Cutting off the balls or fallopian tubes of a white collar criminal will significantly curtail his or her propensity to act aggressively, whether overtly displayed or covertly undertaken. A meta-analysis from 2002 analyzed 20 separate studies and concluded low levels of serotonin are significantly correlated with aggressive behaviors, regardless of the type of crime. There is a relationship between serotonin and antisocial behavior, which is a COMMON trait among street thugs and white collar criminals. In other words, BOTH groups have the inherent trait to be impulsive, to antagonize, to manipulate, or to treat others with callous indifference. Their actions, however, may be violent or nonviolent, but their biological underpinnings are SIMILAR IN NATURE. There is growing evidence between brain abnormalities and some types of criminal behavior, but multiple brain regions, complex chemical interactions, and environmental factors all contribute.

    “Different punishments fit different crimes, and different treatments are needed to remedy different illnesses.”

    Except the Supreme Court clearly delineated that the punishment had to have been EXACTLY SIMILAR considering the context of the law. There cannot be any exclusion. Your point is moot.

    “However it would most likely not do any good to neuter them, based on ample historical observation.”

    You are exclusively focusing on animalistic instincts related to physical and sexual aggression, rather than reasonably taking into account other biological and social factors. Repeatedly stating this criteria is the SOLE basis why street thugs commit their heinous acts demonstrates abject ignorance and cruelty to reason. Multiple factors are in play.

    “As for constitutionality – it hardly seems to matter any more even to the principle officers of government. The Constitution is to Americans what the Queen is to Englishmen – formulaically revered, and without authority in practice.”

    That is observably false. The rule of law and and how it is interpreted is under the purview of judges. There will always be intense debate over their decisions. Regardless, the process is orderly and recognized by the citizens of a country as the appropriate means to mete out punishment and justice.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

  158. “Except the Supreme Court clearly delineated that the punishment had to have been EXACTLY SIMILAR considering the context of the law. There cannot be any exclusion. Your point is moot.”

    The Supreme Court has never found that punishments must be exactly similar for all crimes. Different punishments may be imposed for different crimes, and routinely are.

    In any event, what I proposed long ago in this exchange was to offer certain of those convicted of certain offenses the option of spaying or neutering followed by early release, as an alternative to a long prison sentence or execution.

    The option would not be offered to those convicted of other offenses, because it would probably not do them any good. If anyone could complain of unequal treatment it would be those not offered the option.

    It is true that I do not propose to offer the option to those convicted of non-violent crimes, because experience shows that spaying and neutering are specifically remedial for physical violence and sexual aggression, but not for other types of undesirable behavior. This is a point that you have not refuted.

    “That is observably false. The rule of law and and how it is interpreted is under the purview of judges. There will always be intense debate over their decisions. Regardless, the process is orderly and recognized by the citizens of a country as the appropriate means to mete out punishment and justice.”

    Legal positivism long ago became the ruling legal philosophy in this country. We were not talking about anything so nebulous as “the rule of law,” but specifically about the U.S. Constitution. That document at present has no more meaning than what the judges say it has. Its actual words, the original intent of the Framers, or the original meaning the document had for the electorate at the time it was ratified are all as naught. That is why the Constitution is to Americans as the Queen is to Englishmen – formulaically revered and without authority in practice. Judges will do what they please and call it constitutional.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Crawfurdmuir

    “The Supreme Court has never found that punishments must be exactly similar for all crimes.”

    The Douglas opinion was specific in that the punishments offered were disparate. Your protests are meaningless given this historic ruling.

    “In any event, what I proposed long ago in this exchange was to offer certain of those convicted of certain offenses the option of spaying or neutering followed by early release, as an alternative to a long prison sentence or execution.”

    As was accurately stated, the Douglas opinion would find your plan unconstitutional. It’s a moot point.

    “...because experience shows that spaying and neutering are specifically remedial for physical violence and sexual aggression, but not for other types of undesirable behavior.”

    You are exclusively focusing on animalistic instincts related to physical and sexual aggression, rather than reasonably taking into account other biological and social factors. Repeatedly stating this criteria is the SOLE basis why street thugs commit their heinous acts demonstrates abject ignorance and cruelty to reason. Multiple factors are in play.

    “Serotonin is not a secretion of the gonads. It is secreted by the enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal tract.”

    
YOU are fixated on gonads. I would not be going around telling the world of your fetish. The point I was making that you conveniently ignored in reference to serotonin is that, besides the specific hormonal cause you listed, there are other factors that lead to aggression. In my haste, I made it appear that serotonin and the gonads are intricately linked. Now, serotonin is also synthesized in serotonergic neurons of the central nervous system. Again, there is a relationship between serotonin and antisocial behavior, which is a COMMON trait among street thugs and white collar criminals. In other words, BOTH groups have the inherent trait to be impulsive, to antagonize, to manipulate, or to treat others with callous indifference.

    “Does this not implicitly contradict your claim that “cutting off the balls or fallopian tubes of a white collar criminal will significantly curtail his or her propensity to act aggressively, whether overtly displayed or covertly undertaken”?”

    No, since I am actually recognizing, unlike yourself, that there are also other mitigating circumstances involving aggression.

    “That document at present has no more meaning than what the judges say it has.”



    Exactly the lame, whining excuse that conservatives and liberals make when judgements are rendered that diametrically oppose their principles.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    The rule of law, constitutions--both were created by human beings. They are subject to competing interpretations. Judges refer to the law and invariably employ their own personal beliefs to craft legal decisions. We may applaud or lambaste them. It goes with the territory. The Constitution has explicit meaning today, that is indisputable. Now, WHAT that meaning entails is at the heart of fierce debate.

    “Its actual words, the original intent of the Framers, or the original meaning the document.”



    That "original intent" was immediately called into question, compliments of the Federalists vs. Democratic-Republicans. Their debate still rages on today. There will always be the argument among the strict and loose constructivists, between historical, textual, structural, doctrinal, ethical, and prudential interpretations of the Constitution. Such is the nature of humans.

  159. “A meta-analysis from 2002 analyzed 20 separate studies and concluded low levels of serotonin are significantly correlated with aggressive behaviors, regardless of the type of crime. There is a relationship between serotonin and antisocial behavior, which is a COMMON trait among street thugs and white collar criminals.”

    Serotonin is not a secretion of the gonads. It is secreted by the enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal tract.

    Does this not implicitly contradict your claim that “cutting off the balls or fallopian tubes of a white collar criminal will significantly curtail his or her propensity to act aggressively, whether overtly displayed or covertly undertaken”?

  160. @Crawfurdmuir
    "Except the Supreme Court clearly delineated that the punishment had to have been EXACTLY SIMILAR considering the context of the law. There cannot be any exclusion. Your point is moot."

    The Supreme Court has never found that punishments must be exactly similar for all crimes. Different punishments may be imposed for different crimes, and routinely are.

    In any event, what I proposed long ago in this exchange was to offer certain of those convicted of certain offenses the option of spaying or neutering followed by early release, as an alternative to a long prison sentence or execution.

    The option would not be offered to those convicted of other offenses, because it would probably not do them any good. If anyone could complain of unequal treatment it would be those not offered the option.

    It is true that I do not propose to offer the option to those convicted of non-violent crimes, because experience shows that spaying and neutering are specifically remedial for physical violence and sexual aggression, but not for other types of undesirable behavior. This is a point that you have not refuted.

    "That is observably false. The rule of law and and how it is interpreted is under the purview of judges. There will always be intense debate over their decisions. Regardless, the process is orderly and recognized by the citizens of a country as the appropriate means to mete out punishment and justice."

    Legal positivism long ago became the ruling legal philosophy in this country. We were not talking about anything so nebulous as "the rule of law," but specifically about the U.S. Constitution. That document at present has no more meaning than what the judges say it has. Its actual words, the original intent of the Framers, or the original meaning the document had for the electorate at the time it was ratified are all as naught. That is why the Constitution is to Americans as the Queen is to Englishmen - formulaically revered and without authority in practice. Judges will do what they please and call it constitutional.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “The Supreme Court has never found that punishments must be exactly similar for all crimes.”

    The Douglas opinion was specific in that the punishments offered were disparate. Your protests are meaningless given this historic ruling.

    “In any event, what I proposed long ago in this exchange was to offer certain of those convicted of certain offenses the option of spaying or neutering followed by early release, as an alternative to a long prison sentence or execution.”

    As was accurately stated, the Douglas opinion would find your plan unconstitutional. It’s a moot point.

    “…because experience shows that spaying and neutering are specifically remedial for physical violence and sexual aggression, but not for other types of undesirable behavior.”

    You are exclusively focusing on animalistic instincts related to physical and sexual aggression, rather than reasonably taking into account other biological and social factors. Repeatedly stating this criteria is the SOLE basis why street thugs commit their heinous acts demonstrates abject ignorance and cruelty to reason. Multiple factors are in play.

    “Serotonin is not a secretion of the gonads. It is secreted by the enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal tract.”

    
YOU are fixated on gonads. I would not be going around telling the world of your fetish. The point I was making that you conveniently ignored in reference to serotonin is that, besides the specific hormonal cause you listed, there are other factors that lead to aggression. In my haste, I made it appear that serotonin and the gonads are intricately linked. Now, serotonin is also synthesized in serotonergic neurons of the central nervous system. Again, there is a relationship between serotonin and antisocial behavior, which is a COMMON trait among street thugs and white collar criminals. In other words, BOTH groups have the inherent trait to be impulsive, to antagonize, to manipulate, or to treat others with callous indifference.

    “Does this not implicitly contradict your claim that “cutting off the balls or fallopian tubes of a white collar criminal will significantly curtail his or her propensity to act aggressively, whether overtly displayed or covertly undertaken”?”

    No, since I am actually recognizing, unlike yourself, that there are also other mitigating circumstances involving aggression.

    “That document at present has no more meaning than what the judges say it has.”



    Exactly the lame, whining excuse that conservatives and liberals make when judgements are rendered that diametrically oppose their principles.

    Are you done embarrassing yourself?

    The rule of law, constitutions–both were created by human beings. They are subject to competing interpretations. Judges refer to the law and invariably employ their own personal beliefs to craft legal decisions. We may applaud or lambaste them. It goes with the territory. The Constitution has explicit meaning today, that is indisputable. Now, WHAT that meaning entails is at the heart of fierce debate.

    “Its actual words, the original intent of the Framers, or the original meaning the document.”



    That “original intent” was immediately called into question, compliments of the Federalists vs. Democratic-Republicans. Their debate still rages on today. There will always be the argument among the strict and loose constructivists, between historical, textual, structural, doctrinal, ethical, and prudential interpretations of the Constitution. Such is the nature of humans.

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