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The Birth of Manspreading
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Here’s a mandatory school assembly at Beverly Hills HS in 1968 with Lou Reed of the Velvet Underground (far right) and student council president Mickey Kaus (far left) discussing Today’s Youth with the school psychoanalyst and school music teacher. Mickey seems more galvanized by the topic than does Lou.

This yearbook photo is a good illustration of Tom Wolfe’s recurrent theme that the 1960s saw a revolution in how American men crossed their legs. The two older men have one knee tightly crossed over the other in the polite, don’t-take-up-much-room fashion of mid-Century America, while the Sixties People, Lou (b. 1942) and especially Mickey (b. 1951), have their legs akimbo, as Wolfe would say, e.g., from Bonfire of the Vanities:

Both Andriutti and Caughey were sitting with their legs crossed in the same fashion. The left ankle was resting on top of the right knee, as if they were such studs, they couldn’t have crossed their legs any farther if they had wanted to. This was the accepted sitting posture of Homicide, the most manly of the six bureaus of the District Attorney’s Office. … Kramer looked at Andriutti and Caughey, sitting there with their mighty thighs akimbo.

Nowadays, of course, either crossing the leg with the ankle on the knee or not crossing them in the same configuration is known as Manspreading. But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s.

 
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  1. Kaus is nine years younger than reed but looks ten years older in the photo. He also looks like he could be a homicide detective.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yeah, Kaus's got the suit and tie; was that the sartorial choice for a seventeen year old talking to the Man in 1968?

    Reed seems more dressed for the occasion, but a twenty six year old New York musician, who I didn't think was that famous in 1968, speaking for high school students, seems a bit out of place.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @Redneck farmer
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And Reed the perp he's after.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Reed looks like he’s staring at an invisible smart phone.

    Replies: @dr kill, @anon

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    The older men look like the pianist and vibraphonist in a jazz combo.

    Or maybe two of the Zombies:

    https://www.billboard.com/files/styles/landscape_768/public/media/the-zombies-1965-billboard-1548.jpg

    Or half of Chad and Jeremy:


    https://img.discogs.com/RZ71UQGn8RexmmnBfNwTt8K1mvs=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-337229-1423884096-7678.jpeg.jpg

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike

  2. Mickey Kaus’s new email newsletter was really picking up steam, and then he fell into a Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy hole.

  3. Feminists are next to demand that men stand when a lady enters the room, give up their seats for a lady, remove their hats, and put their coats over mud puddles.

  4. Lou Reed was famous for a long time.

    The Velvet Underground didn’t sell many records, but everyone who bought one went out and started a band.

    Lou Reed’s best friend was Penn Jillette when the latter was on Broadway. Even if you aren’t a fan of Penn generally speaking, you should listen to his podcast right after Lou died.

  5. If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    • Agree: BB753, Redneck farmer, NickG
    • LOL: jim jones
    • Replies: @anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Ha!

    As for you and your old non-verbal communication professor - you're both right.

    ("Non-verbal communication professor" - he picked the wrong career, eh? Or was it a correspondence course?)

    , @slumber_j
    @Buzz Mohawk


    I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.
     
    It doesn't squish your stuff: your stuff rides on top.

    I'm just old enough at 54 that I'm on the cusp of that transition: I know people who cross their legs the old way and people who do it the new way. In my experience it's very much a class-driven phenomenon.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @BenKenobi
    @Buzz Mohawk


    a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere
     
    That's right! You don't keep a Ferrari in the garage.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Yipe, I'm squishing my social construct!

    , @LazarusL
    @Buzz Mohawk

    In obedience to the feminist commandment that "Thou shalt not empathize with mankind as with womankind," feminists seem determined not to understand that having a bag filled with testicles suspended between one's legs makes sitting with the knees primly pressed together rather uncomfortable.

  6. Can’t only arms be akimbo?

    https://www.wordnik.com/words/akimbo

    And doesn’t proper manspreading leave an unobstructed view of the groin to deliver the message memorably attributed to one of the low-rent gigolos of Raymond Chandler… “here’s what you don’t necessarily have to do without.”?

  7. I’m inclined to think that women have long been particularly taught not to sit with their legs apart, for obvious reasons in dress- and skirt-wearing days, and that “manspreading” may in part be the result of men’s being (relatively) free of that injunction. Still, I ride the commuter train almost every day, and I think many of what some women think of as an act of male dominance is simply a result of inconsiderateness or outright selfishness. Plenty of men, and some women, take up more room than they are obviously entitled to, and as I am a man myself I can’t ascribe that to any sort of misogyny. I am reminded that Anthony M. Ludovici, a very interesting anti-modernist kook, always insisted that skirts were the only suitable attire for men, as they tended to keep the testes cooler than pants, which in his view suited women’s bodies much better.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Tono Bungay

    ...pants, which in his view suited women’s bodies much better.

    Any man who needs to have it explained to him why skirts and dresses are preferable on a woman is hopeless.

  8. Crossed legs are seen as effeminate. This was true at my school in the 1980s. Boys who did this would be mocked.

    Actually, now that I think of it, the ‘accepted’ way of crossing your legs was in a ‘T’ with one leg perpendicular to the other. That wasn’t considered effeminate. But like ‘manspreading’ it also took up a lot of space.

    • Replies: @old man
    @Anonymous

    I agree. Crossing legs is sign of femininity. If you sit in a T or with open legs when no one is near, is your own business. If it is crowded, other rules apply. If lesbo-feminists-sjw don't like it they should just go somewhere else.

    Replies: @Jack D

  9. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Kaus is nine years younger than reed but looks ten years older in the photo. He also looks like he could be a homicide detective.

    Replies: @bomag, @Redneck farmer, @Dave Pinsen, @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, Kaus’s got the suit and tie; was that the sartorial choice for a seventeen year old talking to the Man in 1968?

    Reed seems more dressed for the occasion, but a twenty six year old New York musician, who I didn’t think was that famous in 1968, speaking for high school students, seems a bit out of place.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @bomag

    The student body at Beverly Hills High School was probably hipper than average. I still have to assume at least half of them had never heard of the Velvet Underground.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  10. School psychoanalyst???

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Prosa123

    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.


    ....

    As an aside, there were other psychological currents of course--cognitive-behavioral therapy (which had influences from Stoicism its exponents freely admitted to), for instance, never got popular with cultural types, but is actually used now.

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @Abe

    , @Anon
    @Prosa123

    I remember school psychologists, not psychoanalysts, but maybe Beverly Hills High just had to outdo the LAUSD with title inflation. School psychologists were usually women, and they gave the IQ tests, which were rebranded as “vocational counseling tests” when IQ started to become a little less popular, but had not yet become toxic. Vocational counseling was kind of like a modern day mentalist act: The counselor knew your IQ and what jobs it matched, and the jobs of your family and your expressed interests, and she just matched things up and recomended a couple of jobs ... or college (in the days before universal college attendance).

    , @Colin Wright
    @Prosa123

    'School psychoanalyst???'

    It is Beverly Hills High.

    , @J.Ross
    @Prosa123

    There's an informative and tragically dated film treatment of this boomerism with music by the great Lalo Schifrin, it's called Pretty Maids All in a Row.

    , @dvorak
    @Prosa123


    School psychoanalyst???
     
    Psychoanalysis was the most important Scientific Fad of the mid-20th century. The best and brightest fell for it, with few second thoughts.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Kronos

  11. It’s 40+ years ahead of schedule but Lou Reed is striking the “Oh GOD this conversation is boring! Well, better check my iPhone.” pose in that shot.

  12. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Kaus is nine years younger than reed but looks ten years older in the photo. He also looks like he could be a homicide detective.

    Replies: @bomag, @Redneck farmer, @Dave Pinsen, @Reg Cæsar

    And Reed the perp he’s after.

  13. @Prosa123
    School psychoanalyst???

    Replies: @SFG, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @J.Ross, @dvorak

    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

    ….

    As an aside, there were other psychological currents of course–cognitive-behavioral therapy (which had influences from Stoicism its exponents freely admitted to), for instance, never got popular with cultural types, but is actually used now.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    @SFG

    How can you abandon Freud? Barak Obama and Richard Michael Daley are textbook examples of Freudian theory.

    , @Abe
    @SFG


    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

     

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    Replies: @Jack D, @SFG, @Kronos, @JackOH

  14. A lot of guys used the liberation movements of the 60s to run amok and sleep around. It’s part of the reason women’s lib started up in the 70s.

    I was inspired by your movie of the swinging pendula to wonder if some of the differing arrangements over the years have to do with cycles of reaction and reaction to reaction having different lengths. I mean, 50 years ago the left was for free speech and sexual license and the right for propriety and restraint, now the left is for speech codes and affirmative consent (but only for men of course) and the right for free speech and, well, either going back to the 50s or sleeping around depending on who you talk to.

  15. @Buzz Mohawk
    If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    Replies: @anon, @slumber_j, @BenKenobi, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @LazarusL

    Ha!

    As for you and your old non-verbal communication professor – you’re both right.

    (“Non-verbal communication professor” – he picked the wrong career, eh? Or was it a correspondence course?)

  16. I guess Kaus was hosting, or we might say presenting

  17. “But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s.”

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than “60’s self-liberation”.** Mr. Sailer’s NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy.

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis–That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be ‘with the people.’ They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few ‘mans’ and ‘likes’ and ‘digs’ into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried…But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, ‘We’ve got masculinity to spare.’ We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would.”

    **The author of this piece notes “As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro.” He also state that “[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them…”

    Paging Whiskey…

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Corvinus


    When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried
     
    Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights - maybe the other prosecutors do too?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Disordered Always
    @Corvinus

    Same difference.
    Negro-styles were and are loved by loveless feminazis, and are promoted by them since Elvis and the Beatles. That is, until they saw that these Negro attitudes don't work on whites (they become soft, haughty, creepy, or redneck, no in-betweens), and with feminazis who did go full black now mostly stuck with mixed-race babies with few good/rich fathers. Thus now these feminazis are promoting local soyboys to feed from and cuck on, while bringing in the wealthier browns from abroad - and divorcing them as well, continuing the cycle of deteste-fication.
    Before, with both segregation and elite-culture, each race had its own beauty and posture standards, which changed according to fashion but remained on certain averages (i.e. pants mostly for males). White masculinity was both more diverse and less effeminate, it did not have to compete with black excess testosterone, or suave exotic browns; the latter also did not have to compete with rich white "Mad Men", who stuck to white women, thus kept their own cultures' standards.
    Obesity (descending from softness) and jeans (from a phony movie-manhood) also helped. Perhaps also TV, as mass media has both universalized and accentuated different aesthetics. Thus, ankle over knee became valid, it's physically harder and relatively effete to do knee over knee now.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Whiskey
    @Corvinus

    Crossing ones legs or not is trivial. What is really going on is the rage White women have against White men. They no longer need male income so only the sexiest will do. The rest of us they'd rather gulag real or virtual.

    The most low level pro athlete has a hotter girlfriend than Bill Gates and Zuckerberg combined. Which shows how much male provision matters ... None. And how repulsive male intelligence really is.

    Both men would have bailed much hotter if they'd acted like a Black pimp.

    White women are in a constant rage over the lack of sexy dominance in their men. No billionaire bondage lovers or sparkly gay vampires in sight.

    The rage drives the complaints not vice versa

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Anon
    @Corvinus

    Is this the J O'Meara, author of The Homo And the Negro, who shows us how alternative culture and thinking has filtered through into Emericus Durden’s Philosophical Fight Club, chaos magick, and even the bizarre phenomena of ‘meme magic’?

    How could his authority on anything ever be suspect?

    , @anon
    @Corvinus

    Reprinted with a whole book's worth of similar stuff:

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Era-Mad-Ordeal-Civility/dp/1940933358/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?

    "Understanding this spirited book will help you understand the mentality of the hostile elite that has been corrupting our culture for generations. And understanding is a critical step in trying to take back our own culture."-Edmund Connelly

    , @Lugash
    @Corvinus


    Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types
     
    In mau-mauing the flak catchers he describes how one of the flak catchers does the backwards chair pose.

    Personally I can't do the knee-knee without my leg shooting off at a 45 degree angle and looking goofy. I've got narrow hips, so I think bio mechanics are against me.

    The other reason knee-knee is dumb is that it tends to expose a patch of pasty white shin.

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    , @prosa123
    @Corvinus

    When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried

    Not many men actually have muscular legs. Go in any gym and the squat racks are full of people doing barbell curls rather than squatting.
    One could argue that today's increasingly overweight men have trouble doing knee-over-knee leg crosses, but men tend to pack on the avoirdupois on their abdomens rather than legs.

  18. @Buzz Mohawk
    If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    Replies: @anon, @slumber_j, @BenKenobi, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @LazarusL

    I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    It doesn’t squish your stuff: your stuff rides on top.

    I’m just old enough at 54 that I’m on the cusp of that transition: I know people who cross their legs the old way and people who do it the new way. In my experience it’s very much a class-driven phenomenon.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @slumber_j

    Maybe it had something to do with the growing popularity of jeans, which tended (especially in their form then) not to allow as much movement and comfort as other pants.

    I am of the third way, propping an ankle or calf on a knee. It is said this came about among horsemen wearing stirrups, but I don't know.

    I have also heard something to the effect that what is best for your knees and overall structure is to sit with both feet on the ground, no stress on joints. I even remember high jumper Dwight Stones talking about that in a TV interview with Tom Snyder or somebody in the 1970s.

    Whatever, I find the polite (higher class you say?) leg crossing to be rather feminine for a man and uncomfortable for me.

    Replies: @SFG, @Kronos, @Chrisnonymous

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @slumber_j

    It's a physique phenomenon. If you have short/thick thighs, you will not be able to cross your legs like that. So, someone with a length diameter ratio like Jared Taylor's can easily loop one leg over the other but if you're built like Mike Tyson you'd have to be tied in that position.

  19. https://archive.org/stream/TheOrdealOfCivilityFreudJohnMurrayCuddihy/The%20Ordeal%20Of%20Civility_%20Freud%2C%20-%20John%20Murray%20Cuddihy_djvu.txt

    Resistance to “the primary rule” of psychoanalytic candor (the “ethic of honesty”) Reich believed, took the form of character resistance : the defenses against insight into the infantile sources in the id of the patient’s current pathology anchored themselves in the very physiology of the body, in “stiff upper lips,” in the tendency to “grin and bear it,” in evasive movements of the eyes, in shielding the genitalia by crossing the legs, in—the last stronghold of retreating anxiety—a rigid pelvis. […]

    The analogy here to Reich’s namesake and heir—Charles Reich—is “no accident.” In Reich II Charles), the masculine genitality of Reich I’s thirties protest has been tenderized into the soft androgeny of the American seventies, where ingenuous green shoots of “the green¬ing of America” make their way up through the civilities of the Gentile Gesellschaft of “consciousness II.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Sean

    Thank you. I was just thinking Cuddihy might have some thoughts on that photo a la The Ordeal of Civiility.

  20. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Kaus is nine years younger than reed but looks ten years older in the photo. He also looks like he could be a homicide detective.

    Replies: @bomag, @Redneck farmer, @Dave Pinsen, @Reg Cæsar

    Reed looks like he’s staring at an invisible smart phone.

    • Replies: @dr kill
    @Dave Pinsen

    That's what I was thinking, hating on being there, texting LOLGF to his boyz.

    , @anon
    @Dave Pinsen

    His publicists always claimed he was ahead of his time.

  21. @slumber_j
    @Buzz Mohawk


    I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.
     
    It doesn't squish your stuff: your stuff rides on top.

    I'm just old enough at 54 that I'm on the cusp of that transition: I know people who cross their legs the old way and people who do it the new way. In my experience it's very much a class-driven phenomenon.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Anti-Gnostic

    Maybe it had something to do with the growing popularity of jeans, which tended (especially in their form then) not to allow as much movement and comfort as other pants.

    I am of the third way, propping an ankle or calf on a knee. It is said this came about among horsemen wearing stirrups, but I don’t know.

    I have also heard something to the effect that what is best for your knees and overall structure is to sit with both feet on the ground, no stress on joints. I even remember high jumper Dwight Stones talking about that in a TV interview with Tom Snyder or somebody in the 1970s.

    Whatever, I find the polite (higher class you say?) leg crossing to be rather feminine for a man and uncomfortable for me.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I liked to believe that crossing your legs in the wider stance reflected America's greater masculinity and space vis-a-vis Europe (which is why feminists are getting rid of it now), but like you say, it was probably just a fashion thing.

    , @Kronos
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I’ve seen guys in skinny jeans and can’t help but remember this animation.

    https://youtu.be/nbyseLJinQc

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I have actually large muscular thighs, so I understand where Dave Pinsen is coming from. However, as prosa123 points out, most men don't have actually large muscular thighs.

    I am partial to your point about clothing. It is not only jeans, but the cut of the clothes. Jeans from the 1950s were looser, and trousers in the 1960s tighter.

    Crossing knee over knee is actually comfortable if your body and clothes allow it. (I remember doing it at a younger age.) The McLaughlin Group's opening always showed Pat Buchanan in this pose. As another commenter pointed out, the pose can expose an unsightly segment of bare leg, but Pat always wore appropriately long formal male stockings. This is another clothing change--somehow, men switched over to socks that only came up to the bottom of the calf. Long stockings are better for both suits and deadlifts, so they should be embraced by men. Like do many things pale, stale, and male, I think they died a death of California--that is, they didn't look cool with casual clothes like surfer shorts. Montgomery looked cool wearing them with a hot weather uniform in Africa, but since those uniforms are out of fashion even in the military, only the nerdiest Boy Scouts will be seen wearing that fashion now. I admit. I recall one national Jamboree where the troops from large cities had blacks Scouts that wore their long socks down around their ankles.

  22. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried

    Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?"

    To emulate blacks, as the CounterCurrents author suggests? Is that what you do, too?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Chrisnonymous, @prosa123

  23. Anon[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prosa123
    School psychoanalyst???

    Replies: @SFG, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @J.Ross, @dvorak

    I remember school psychologists, not psychoanalysts, but maybe Beverly Hills High just had to outdo the LAUSD with title inflation. School psychologists were usually women, and they gave the IQ tests, which were rebranded as “vocational counseling tests” when IQ started to become a little less popular, but had not yet become toxic. Vocational counseling was kind of like a modern day mentalist act: The counselor knew your IQ and what jobs it matched, and the jobs of your family and your expressed interests, and she just matched things up and recomended a couple of jobs … or college (in the days before universal college attendance).

  24. @Buzz Mohawk
    If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    Replies: @anon, @slumber_j, @BenKenobi, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @LazarusL

    a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere

    That’s right! You don’t keep a Ferrari in the garage.

  25. @SFG
    @Prosa123

    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.


    ....

    As an aside, there were other psychological currents of course--cognitive-behavioral therapy (which had influences from Stoicism its exponents freely admitted to), for instance, never got popular with cultural types, but is actually used now.

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @Abe

    How can you abandon Freud? Barak Obama and Richard Michael Daley are textbook examples of Freudian theory.

  26. I don’t buy it. It may be an affectation on some peoples’ parts but I did that since I was a kid because my legs just can’t do the tradition knee over knee thing. Some combination of thigh size and maybe joint orientation relative to something. If you have skinny legs and it’s easy to do, fine. For some of us anything but at least a slight spread (or ankle rests on knee) doesn’t work

    • Replies: @95Theses
    @Erik L

    I'm with you. It has nothing to do with asserting dominance (like marking territory) – it's all about what's most comfortable. The presence of male genitalia may have something to do with needing more room, but I also find leaning back on the rear legs of a four-legged chair comfortable, too – because it takes the stress off my back. How could dominance be read into that? And why should any of the above comfort positions bother another human being in a public context? That any mental energy is being expended on how men sit is beyond silly and not worth my time.

    And while I have yet to be womansplained concerning the manner in which I choose to sit, if and when that should happen I already have some readymade responses sure to get the veins bulging in Miss Busybody's neck. And a layer of icing in the form of the most condescending chortle I can muster. ツ

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  27. @Buzz Mohawk
    If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    Replies: @anon, @slumber_j, @BenKenobi, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @LazarusL

    Yipe, I’m squishing my social construct!

  28. I find the old Jean-Luc Picard posture to be the most comfortable for me after attaining my full adult height. Placing an ankle on the knee cuts off circulation to my foot and puts too much torque on my hip. I’m built kind of like Glacius from Killer Instinct—I’m 6’2″ and about 4’6″ of that is leg. I don’t consider it an unmanly pose due to the overall manliness of the form it’s adapted to.

  29. @Prosa123
    School psychoanalyst???

    Replies: @SFG, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @J.Ross, @dvorak

    ‘School psychoanalyst???’

    It is Beverly Hills High.

  30. One needs to have skinny legs to be able to sit with them crossed. With their wider hips it’s a woman’s way of sitting, legs crossed like that, rather than a man’s. Seems kind of faggy, anyway.

  31. @Buzz Mohawk
    @slumber_j

    Maybe it had something to do with the growing popularity of jeans, which tended (especially in their form then) not to allow as much movement and comfort as other pants.

    I am of the third way, propping an ankle or calf on a knee. It is said this came about among horsemen wearing stirrups, but I don't know.

    I have also heard something to the effect that what is best for your knees and overall structure is to sit with both feet on the ground, no stress on joints. I even remember high jumper Dwight Stones talking about that in a TV interview with Tom Snyder or somebody in the 1970s.

    Whatever, I find the polite (higher class you say?) leg crossing to be rather feminine for a man and uncomfortable for me.

    Replies: @SFG, @Kronos, @Chrisnonymous

    I liked to believe that crossing your legs in the wider stance reflected America’s greater masculinity and space vis-a-vis Europe (which is why feminists are getting rid of it now), but like you say, it was probably just a fashion thing.

  32. I was always taught that men are to cross their legs ankle on knee. Crossing knee over knee is how women cross their legs. But my father could be an odd man at times. Knee on knee is fine for men, if done properly.

    I wonder if tight seats in theaters, churches, and other spaces had anything to do with why men crossed their legs more. Go into an old theater or auditorium and one of the first things you notice is that the seats were a bit narrower, which makes a huge difference for taller men. Crossing your legs knee over knee (in as masculine a manner as possible) buys back a little more room.

    Also, the change in clothing preferences. I don’t think that it’s all that much harder to cross your legs while wearing jeans, but it just looks a little…weird. Like a Dodge Neon at a country club. It only looks right when you’re wearing nicer clothing.

  33. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    Same difference.
    Negro-styles were and are loved by loveless feminazis, and are promoted by them since Elvis and the Beatles. That is, until they saw that these Negro attitudes don’t work on whites (they become soft, haughty, creepy, or redneck, no in-betweens), and with feminazis who did go full black now mostly stuck with mixed-race babies with few good/rich fathers. Thus now these feminazis are promoting local soyboys to feed from and cuck on, while bringing in the wealthier browns from abroad – and divorcing them as well, continuing the cycle of deteste-fication.
    Before, with both segregation and elite-culture, each race had its own beauty and posture standards, which changed according to fashion but remained on certain averages (i.e. pants mostly for males). White masculinity was both more diverse and less effeminate, it did not have to compete with black excess testosterone, or suave exotic browns; the latter also did not have to compete with rich white “Mad Men”, who stuck to white women, thus kept their own cultures’ standards.
    Obesity (descending from softness) and jeans (from a phony movie-manhood) also helped. Perhaps also TV, as mass media has both universalized and accentuated different aesthetics. Thus, ankle over knee became valid, it’s physically harder and relatively effete to do knee over knee now.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Disordered Always

    "Negro-styles were and are loved by loveless feminazis, and are promoted by them since Elvis and the Beatles. That is, until they saw that these Negro attitudes don’t work on whites (they become soft, haughty, creepy, or redneck, no in-betweens), and with feminazis who did go full black now mostly stuck with mixed-race babies with few good/rich fathers."

    Is that you, Whiskey?

    "Before, with both segregation and elite-culture, each race had its own beauty and posture standards, which changed according to fashion but remained on certain averages (i.e. pants mostly for males).

    Does not the human race matter most?

    "White masculinity was both more diverse and less effeminate, it did not have to compete with black excess testosterone, or suave exotic browns; the latter also did not have to compete with rich white “Mad Men”, who stuck to white women, thus kept their own cultures’ standards."

    There is no such thing as "white masculinity", just "masculinity".

  34. The fact that this trivia takes up space and time, is of significance of the diversion and distraction tactics of the Central Controllers. Just like a magic act. Who gives a shit what “feminists” say. For one thing they are agitprop Cultural Marxists, are not feminine and could not care less about women’s anything. They simply want to destroy all culture, burn it to the ground and rebuild it to suit their exclusive view.

    A real Nothing Burger, this is.

  35. My career as an altar boy ended abruptly because I tended to manspread when sitting down and facing the flock during mass.

  36. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    Crossing ones legs or not is trivial. What is really going on is the rage White women have against White men. They no longer need male income so only the sexiest will do. The rest of us they’d rather gulag real or virtual.

    The most low level pro athlete has a hotter girlfriend than Bill Gates and Zuckerberg combined. Which shows how much male provision matters … None. And how repulsive male intelligence really is.

    Both men would have bailed much hotter if they’d acted like a Black pimp.

    White women are in a constant rage over the lack of sexy dominance in their men. No billionaire bondage lovers or sparkly gay vampires in sight.

    The rage drives the complaints not vice versa

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Whiskey

    "What is really going on is the rage White women have against White men."

    Only in your mind is this phenomenon occurring.

  37. @Dave Pinsen
    @Corvinus


    When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried
     
    Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights - maybe the other prosecutors do too?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?”

    To emulate blacks, as the CounterCurrents author suggests? Is that what you do, too?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Corvinus

    You know me so well.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Corvinus

    Blacks usually lift weights in prison. Malt liquor, marijuana, crack, skirt-chasing, fleeing the cops--none of these are conducive to a weightlifting regimen. Go to most gyms and they'll look like our military's special forces units.

    Replies: @Anon, @Corvinus

    , @prosa123
    @Corvinus

    In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity. You'll see blacks in gyms, but not in any disproportionate numbers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

  38. The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions. Women would bring them coffee and sex and pansies need not apply. A lot of white radicals copied black mannerisms (or Cuban Communist ones) and black and Cuban revolutionaries were especially macho. In the Sixties Generation, crossing your legs knee on knee came to be seen as effeminate and no respectable teenage boy was going to be seen to do anything remotely effeminate.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    No, they were drifting on masculinity momentum, but definitely deconstructing, and getting into new territory. The women were bringing them coffee because that was a deeply established and not yet re-examined practice.
    A more interesting thing is what happened with gender roles one and two generations back, when it was largely confirmed that society doesn't want men except insofar as it finds itself needing them.

    , @SafeNow
    @Jack D

    In my H.S., the football coach instructed his players not to sit in class with crossed legs. (The definite article dates me; there was only 1 football coach.)

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D

    Stokely Carmichael told an audience that the place of women in the movement was prone.

    It was meant as a joke, but for a long time it was true.

    , @dfordoom
    @Jack D


    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions.
     
    That was more like the last gasp of the Old Left. Leftists who still believed in stuff like socialism. For about 20 years starting from the late 60s the Left got infiltrated by feminists, homosexuals, drug-addled hippies, greenies, etc. and became more and more anti-socialist and pro-capitalist.

    1968 was a transitional period in the transformation of the old school socialist Left into the identity politics Left of today. Even in the late 70s there were still hardcore communists and Trotskyists around (I used to know a couple of Trotskyists back then).

    It was a gradual transformation with the purging of the actual communists and socialists largely completed by the end of the 90s.

    Of course even back in the 30s Orwell used to rail against the sandal-wearing vegetarian Pansy Left.
  39. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    Is this the J O’Meara, author of The Homo And the Negro, who shows us how alternative culture and thinking has filtered through into Emericus Durden’s Philosophical Fight Club, chaos magick, and even the bizarre phenomena of ‘meme magic’?

    How could his authority on anything ever be suspect?

  40. Was there a bigger douchebag than Lou Reed?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @pontius

    Ben Shapiro...?

    Steve Jobs...?

    Wait! Gavin Newsome. Definitely Gavin Newsome.

    (So many contenders, really....)

  41. @Prosa123
    School psychoanalyst???

    Replies: @SFG, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @J.Ross, @dvorak

    There’s an informative and tragically dated film treatment of this boomerism with music by the great Lalo Schifrin, it’s called Pretty Maids All in a Row.

  42. @Jack D
    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions. Women would bring them coffee and sex and pansies need not apply. A lot of white radicals copied black mannerisms (or Cuban Communist ones) and black and Cuban revolutionaries were especially macho. In the Sixties Generation, crossing your legs knee on knee came to be seen as effeminate and no respectable teenage boy was going to be seen to do anything remotely effeminate.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @dfordoom

    No, they were drifting on masculinity momentum, but definitely deconstructing, and getting into new territory. The women were bringing them coffee because that was a deeply established and not yet re-examined practice.
    A more interesting thing is what happened with gender roles one and two generations back, when it was largely confirmed that society doesn’t want men except insofar as it finds itself needing them.

  43. anon[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    Reprinted with a whole book’s worth of similar stuff:

    “Understanding this spirited book will help you understand the mentality of the hostile elite that has been corrupting our culture for generations. And understanding is a critical step in trying to take back our own culture.”-Edmund Connelly

  44. Not a lot of people know it, but Germany went to war for Lederhosen space

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Sean

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he's only got one ball.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @Sean

  45. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types

    In mau-mauing the flak catchers he describes how one of the flak catchers does the backwards chair pose.

    Personally I can’t do the knee-knee without my leg shooting off at a 45 degree angle and looking goofy. I’ve got narrow hips, so I think bio mechanics are against me.

    The other reason knee-knee is dumb is that it tends to expose a patch of pasty white shin.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Lugash


    In mau-mauing the flak catchers he describes how one of the flak catchers does the backwards chair pose.
     
    I remember doing that backwards chair thing in the 1980s. I can't, for the life of me, recall why.
  46. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m trying to imagine the lesbian harpies in the women’s studies department who initiated this whole issue. Why did they notice men’s sitting postures? Why did they fixate on it? Why did they assign moral value to it and designate one of the postures as morally evil?
    I’m not trying to imagine their arguments. I’m trying to imagine what variety of mental illness they must have to think about this at all.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @anon

    Taking up two seats on the subway for no good reason is really annoying.

    An academic feminist's job, pretty much, is to take all the annoying features of life and pin them on male supremacy. Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it's hard.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    , @anon
    @anon

    Why did they notice men’s sitting postures?

    Penis envy.

    Why did they fixate on it?

    Penis envy.

    Why did they assign moral value to it and designate one of the postures as morally evil?

    Penis envy.

    I’m not trying to imagine their arguments. I’m trying to imagine what variety of mental illness they must have to think about this at all.

    Envy is an emotion. They don't think at all.

  47. @Corvinus
    "But it’s little remembered that this was a product of the self-liberation movements of the 1960s."

    Debatable. Apparently, it is connected to something other than "60's self-liberation".** Mr. Sailer's NOTICING is four years too late.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/06/mad-manspreading

    "And inconvenience is what it’s about. As a longtime subway rider, I can assure you it’s about accommodating increasingly obese Americans on trains, not another feminazi castration ploy....

    In fact, around that very time, as the ’60s of Mad Men deflated into the “let it all hang out” kulcha of the ’70s, Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types — analysis--That was the pimp look, the look of hip and supercool and so fine. The white bureaucrats, and the black ones, too, walked in trying to look as earthy and rugged as they could, in order to be 'with the people.' They tried to walk in like football players, like they had a keg of beer between their legs. They rounded their shoulders over so it made their necks look bigger. They thickened up their voices and threw a few 'mans' and 'likes' and 'digs' into their conversations. When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried...But the pimp-style aristocrats had taken the manhood thing through so many numbers that it was beginning to come out through the other side. To them, by now, being hip was striking poses that were so cool, so languid, they were almost feminine. It was like saying, 'We’ve got masculinity to spare.' We’ve been through so much shit, we’re so confident of our manhood, we’re so hip and so suave and wise in the ways of the street, that we can afford to be refined and not sit around here trying to look like a bunch of stud brawlers. So they would not only cross their legs, they’d cross them further than a woman would."

    **The author of this piece notes "As usual, the Real Men are fake men, trying to mock up a facsimile of manhood by imitating the negro." He also state that "[t]here has always been a segment of the White community that, consciously or not, emulated negro culture — they’re called “White trash.” Now, we may take their side on occasion, or support them to some extent, being as they are our fellow Whites, or our fellow men, but we help them best by leading and instructing them..."

    Paging Whiskey...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Disordered Always, @Whiskey, @Anon, @anon, @Lugash, @prosa123

    When they sat down, they gave it that Honcho wide-open spread . . . as if the muscles in their thighs were so big and stud-like that they couldn’t cross their legs all the way if they tried

    Not many men actually have muscular legs. Go in any gym and the squat racks are full of people doing barbell curls rather than squatting.
    One could argue that today’s increasingly overweight men have trouble doing knee-over-knee leg crosses, but men tend to pack on the avoirdupois on their abdomens rather than legs.

  48. @Buzz Mohawk
    @slumber_j

    Maybe it had something to do with the growing popularity of jeans, which tended (especially in their form then) not to allow as much movement and comfort as other pants.

    I am of the third way, propping an ankle or calf on a knee. It is said this came about among horsemen wearing stirrups, but I don't know.

    I have also heard something to the effect that what is best for your knees and overall structure is to sit with both feet on the ground, no stress on joints. I even remember high jumper Dwight Stones talking about that in a TV interview with Tom Snyder or somebody in the 1970s.

    Whatever, I find the polite (higher class you say?) leg crossing to be rather feminine for a man and uncomfortable for me.

    Replies: @SFG, @Kronos, @Chrisnonymous

    I’ve seen guys in skinny jeans and can’t help but remember this animation.

  49. @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?"

    To emulate blacks, as the CounterCurrents author suggests? Is that what you do, too?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Chrisnonymous, @prosa123

    You know me so well.

  50. @Dave Pinsen
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Reed looks like he’s staring at an invisible smart phone.

    Replies: @dr kill, @anon

    That’s what I was thinking, hating on being there, texting LOLGF to his boyz.

  51. The pseudo-event of Adlai Stevenson being photographed with a perforated shoe sole wouldn’t have occurred under the new regime, I guess.

  52. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Kaus is nine years younger than reed but looks ten years older in the photo. He also looks like he could be a homicide detective.

    Replies: @bomag, @Redneck farmer, @Dave Pinsen, @Reg Cæsar

    The older men look like the pianist and vibraphonist in a jazz combo.

    Or maybe two of the Zombies:

    Or half of Chad and Jeremy:

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    @Reg Cæsar

    The guy sesond from left reminds me of Earl Warren.

    https://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax/files/2e/2ea82ec2-24ff-416a-89a8-8cc1c4114bc4.jpg

  53. @SFG
    @Prosa123

    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.


    ....

    As an aside, there were other psychological currents of course--cognitive-behavioral therapy (which had influences from Stoicism its exponents freely admitted to), for instance, never got popular with cultural types, but is actually used now.

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @Abe

    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Abe

    Psychoanalysis was the whitest, most "Jewish" thing imaginable and has no place on the colorful Woke Left. It is, like many Jewish thing, the diametric opposite of black culture. Blacks are into self-esteem and too much self reflection tends to dent self esteem.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @SFG
    @Abe

    I don't think you could do an alt-right takeover of, say, clinical psychology. People going into that are (a) interested in helping people (b) have better verbal skills than anything else, ceteris paribus and (c) predominantly female (and of course all these things correlate). As such they are not going to be good converts to either ethnonationalism or classical liberalism.

    (Locking away your political opponents isn't a Foucaultian nightmare, it's a Soviet one, and quite real. They had the diagnosis of 'sluggishly progressing schizophrenia'.)

    But...you have a really, really good point that philosophies like Stoicism, where your thoughts create your emotions, have strong conservative implications. (This was later incorporated into rational-emotive therapy by Albert Ellis and cognitive-behavioral therapy by Aaron Beck--both with parentheses so they'll make bad alt-right poster boys, though Ellis in particular was very much a raunchy 60s figure and I could see the IDW picking him up. They both cited their Stoic inspirations BTW.)

    The key insight is that, of course, you don't have to get triggered if you don't want to. Instead of saying, "it's really horrible that someone touched my hair and so I have to get depressed about racism everywhere", you could say, "why does someone touching my hair make me feel depressed? Does that really mean they're trying to oppress me? If they notice I'm black, does that mean they necessarily hold all the other negative stereotypes about black people?"

    Now there are genuine cases of PTSD from war, rape, etc. where people have unwanted, intrusive thoughts and hyperreactions they genuinely can't control, but from what I know about the literature you generally try to slowly desensitize people, not avoid the triggers altogether.

    The thing is that SJWism is both a mental illness and not. By which I mean it's maladaptive on an individual level, but if you can get everyone else to feel guilty and terrified of offending you (and can back it up with the Twitter mob), it's an effective means of exercising power.

    Here's an article from the Atlantic pointing out that SJWs are engaging in emotional reasoning (with one of the authors being Jonathan Haidt, of moral foundation fame):

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/


    So: here's my most actionable suggestion, and any meme warriors better with image macros are welcome to take it up. You've got a picture of your chunky SJW of choice going 'CALLED ME FAT. I'M TRIGGERED. GOING TO EAT A CAN OF ICE CREAM' versus some chunky neckbeard going 'CALLED ME FAT. WORDS DON'T AFFECT MY WEIGHT. I CAN IGNORE THEM OR GO EXERCISE.'

    Something like that, I'm no meme warrior. But I think Stoic memes (given the classical Greek heritage) could be a good way of injecting some self-reliance into the youth. It would be good for the country, too.

    you could use CBT and RET's Jewish origins in more moderate settings where you don't want to appear racist.

    , @Kronos
    @Abe

    “I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack.”

    Might be better (and much easier) to takeover those institutions once the pensions blowup. They’ll utilize so much political capital in a vain attempt to save pensions that they’ll become a spent political force.

    , @JackOH
    @Abe

    Abe, buddy, this is a truly great comment. You sound like you've had political experience, or you have really strong native political instincts.

    When our gracious host, Ron Unz, starts his nationwide Unzianite political training seminars, I'd really like to hear you limn the last 50-some years of our misbegotten politics through the lens of the guilt trip. Maybe 40 minutes, with 20 minutes for Q & A. I think it would click with folks. (I actually believe a lot of folks here have been successfully and very wrongly guilted by our bad politics into believing they're bad persons. They're not.)

    Ron, what about weekend and nationwide political training seminars with speakers suited to your style of thinking? Scholarly, disinterested in the best sense of the term, and reality-based. Friday night through Sunday morning at a local Quality Inn or equivalent. Maybe $300 for the package, two nights plus the speakers, and toss in a signed copy of your book for good measure.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  54. @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?"

    To emulate blacks, as the CounterCurrents author suggests? Is that what you do, too?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Chrisnonymous, @prosa123

    Blacks usually lift weights in prison. Malt liquor, marijuana, crack, skirt-chasing, fleeing the cops–none of these are conducive to a weightlifting regimen. Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Chrisnonymous


    Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units.
     
    Paging Twinkie ...
    , @Corvinus
    @Chrisnonymous

    "Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units."

    Actually, our military is buff.

    https://www.bodyfortress.com/news/get-fit-with-the-military-workout-plan

    https://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/weights-and-pt-workouts

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/6-week-navy-seal-workout-routine

    Replies: @Anon, @Stan Adams

  55. @Reg Cæsar
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    The older men look like the pianist and vibraphonist in a jazz combo.

    Or maybe two of the Zombies:

    https://www.billboard.com/files/styles/landscape_768/public/media/the-zombies-1965-billboard-1548.jpg

    Or half of Chad and Jeremy:


    https://img.discogs.com/RZ71UQGn8RexmmnBfNwTt8K1mvs=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-337229-1423884096-7678.jpeg.jpg

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike

    The guy sesond from left reminds me of Earl Warren.

  56. @Buzz Mohawk
    @slumber_j

    Maybe it had something to do with the growing popularity of jeans, which tended (especially in their form then) not to allow as much movement and comfort as other pants.

    I am of the third way, propping an ankle or calf on a knee. It is said this came about among horsemen wearing stirrups, but I don't know.

    I have also heard something to the effect that what is best for your knees and overall structure is to sit with both feet on the ground, no stress on joints. I even remember high jumper Dwight Stones talking about that in a TV interview with Tom Snyder or somebody in the 1970s.

    Whatever, I find the polite (higher class you say?) leg crossing to be rather feminine for a man and uncomfortable for me.

    Replies: @SFG, @Kronos, @Chrisnonymous

    I have actually large muscular thighs, so I understand where Dave Pinsen is coming from. However, as prosa123 points out, most men don’t have actually large muscular thighs.

    I am partial to your point about clothing. It is not only jeans, but the cut of the clothes. Jeans from the 1950s were looser, and trousers in the 1960s tighter.

    Crossing knee over knee is actually comfortable if your body and clothes allow it. (I remember doing it at a younger age.) The McLaughlin Group’s opening always showed Pat Buchanan in this pose. As another commenter pointed out, the pose can expose an unsightly segment of bare leg, but Pat always wore appropriately long formal male stockings. This is another clothing change–somehow, men switched over to socks that only came up to the bottom of the calf. Long stockings are better for both suits and deadlifts, so they should be embraced by men. Like do many things pale, stale, and male, I think they died a death of California–that is, they didn’t look cool with casual clothes like surfer shorts. Montgomery looked cool wearing them with a hot weather uniform in Africa, but since those uniforms are out of fashion even in the military, only the nerdiest Boy Scouts will be seen wearing that fashion now. I admit. I recall one national Jamboree where the troops from large cities had blacks Scouts that wore their long socks down around their ankles.

  57. @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "Wolfe mentions in Bonfire of the Vanities that Kramer and works out with weights – maybe the other prosecutors do too?"

    To emulate blacks, as the CounterCurrents author suggests? Is that what you do, too?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Chrisnonymous, @prosa123

    In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity. You’ll see blacks in gyms, but not in any disproportionate numbers.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @prosa123

    The blacks are all working out fo' free in the prison gym. They don't need to pay for no gym memberships.

    , @Corvinus
    @prosa123

    "In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity."

    LOL, no. It is a human activity for those men and women who seek to lose weight and/or get ripped.

    Replies: @Jack D

  58. @Sean
    Not a lot of people know it, but Germany went to war for Lederhosen space


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/15/11/4A368B5200000578-5504525-image-m-56_1521112041852.jpg

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he’s only got one ball.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Chrisnonymous


    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he’s only got one ball.
     
    Goebbels too, cause they're very small...
    , @SFG
    @Chrisnonymous

    There was actually no evidence for that, or the other one being in the Albert Hall. Apparently it was a rumor British intelligence liked to spread about the enemies of Great Britain...there was also a (doctored) picture going around supposedly showing he'd been circumcised.

    , @Sean
    @Chrisnonymous

    Hate to think what would have happened if he had a full set.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  59. @prosa123
    @Corvinus

    In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity. You'll see blacks in gyms, but not in any disproportionate numbers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

    The blacks are all working out fo’ free in the prison gym. They don’t need to pay for no gym memberships.

  60. @Abe
    @SFG


    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

     

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    Replies: @Jack D, @SFG, @Kronos, @JackOH

    Psychoanalysis was the whitest, most “Jewish” thing imaginable and has no place on the colorful Woke Left. It is, like many Jewish thing, the diametric opposite of black culture. Blacks are into self-esteem and too much self reflection tends to dent self esteem.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Blacks are into self-esteem and too much self reflection tends to dent self esteem.
     
    In their case, understandably.
  61. @Abe
    @SFG


    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

     

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    Replies: @Jack D, @SFG, @Kronos, @JackOH

    I don’t think you could do an alt-right takeover of, say, clinical psychology. People going into that are (a) interested in helping people (b) have better verbal skills than anything else, ceteris paribus and (c) predominantly female (and of course all these things correlate). As such they are not going to be good converts to either ethnonationalism or classical liberalism.

    (Locking away your political opponents isn’t a Foucaultian nightmare, it’s a Soviet one, and quite real. They had the diagnosis of ‘sluggishly progressing schizophrenia’.)

    But…you have a really, really good point that philosophies like Stoicism, where your thoughts create your emotions, have strong conservative implications. (This was later incorporated into rational-emotive therapy by Albert Ellis and cognitive-behavioral therapy by Aaron Beck–both with parentheses so they’ll make bad alt-right poster boys, though Ellis in particular was very much a raunchy 60s figure and I could see the IDW picking him up. They both cited their Stoic inspirations BTW.)

    The key insight is that, of course, you don’t have to get triggered if you don’t want to. Instead of saying, “it’s really horrible that someone touched my hair and so I have to get depressed about racism everywhere”, you could say, “why does someone touching my hair make me feel depressed? Does that really mean they’re trying to oppress me? If they notice I’m black, does that mean they necessarily hold all the other negative stereotypes about black people?”

    Now there are genuine cases of PTSD from war, rape, etc. where people have unwanted, intrusive thoughts and hyperreactions they genuinely can’t control, but from what I know about the literature you generally try to slowly desensitize people, not avoid the triggers altogether.

    The thing is that SJWism is both a mental illness and not. By which I mean it’s maladaptive on an individual level, but if you can get everyone else to feel guilty and terrified of offending you (and can back it up with the Twitter mob), it’s an effective means of exercising power.

    Here’s an article from the Atlantic pointing out that SJWs are engaging in emotional reasoning (with one of the authors being Jonathan Haidt, of moral foundation fame):

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

    So: here’s my most actionable suggestion, and any meme warriors better with image macros are welcome to take it up. You’ve got a picture of your chunky SJW of choice going ‘CALLED ME FAT. I’M TRIGGERED. GOING TO EAT A CAN OF ICE CREAM’ versus some chunky neckbeard going ‘CALLED ME FAT. WORDS DON’T AFFECT MY WEIGHT. I CAN IGNORE THEM OR GO EXERCISE.’

    Something like that, I’m no meme warrior. But I think Stoic memes (given the classical Greek heritage) could be a good way of injecting some self-reliance into the youth. It would be good for the country, too.

    you could use CBT and RET’s Jewish origins in more moderate settings where you don’t want to appear racist.

  62. @Prosa123
    School psychoanalyst???

    Replies: @SFG, @Anon, @Colin Wright, @J.Ross, @dvorak

    School psychoanalyst???

    Psychoanalysis was the most important Scientific Fad of the mid-20th century. The best and brightest fell for it, with few second thoughts.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @dvorak

    Or as the great Sir Peter Medawar put it "the most stupendous intellectual confidence trick of the 20th century".

    , @Kronos
    @dvorak

    Behaviorism was another tar pit.

  63. @Dave Pinsen
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Reed looks like he’s staring at an invisible smart phone.

    Replies: @dr kill, @anon

    His publicists always claimed he was ahead of his time.

  64. @anon
    I'm trying to imagine the lesbian harpies in the women's studies department who initiated this whole issue. Why did they notice men's sitting postures? Why did they fixate on it? Why did they assign moral value to it and designate one of the postures as morally evil?
    I'm not trying to imagine their arguments. I'm trying to imagine what variety of mental illness they must have to think about this at all.

    Replies: @Anon, @anon

    Taking up two seats on the subway for no good reason is really annoying.

    An academic feminist’s job, pretty much, is to take all the annoying features of life and pin them on male supremacy. Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it’s hard.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Anon


    Taking up two seats on the subway for no good reason is really annoying.
     
    Is there a *good* reason to occupy two seats?

    Fat-assed lard: bad reason.
    Manspreading: bad reason.
    Creeper no one wants to sit next to: bad reason.
  65. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    I'm trying to imagine the lesbian harpies in the women's studies department who initiated this whole issue. Why did they notice men's sitting postures? Why did they fixate on it? Why did they assign moral value to it and designate one of the postures as morally evil?
    I'm not trying to imagine their arguments. I'm trying to imagine what variety of mental illness they must have to think about this at all.

    Replies: @Anon, @anon

    Why did they notice men’s sitting postures?

    Penis envy.

    Why did they fixate on it?

    Penis envy.

    Why did they assign moral value to it and designate one of the postures as morally evil?

    Penis envy.

    I’m not trying to imagine their arguments. I’m trying to imagine what variety of mental illness they must have to think about this at all.

    Envy is an emotion. They don’t think at all.

  66. @Chrisnonymous
    @Corvinus

    Blacks usually lift weights in prison. Malt liquor, marijuana, crack, skirt-chasing, fleeing the cops--none of these are conducive to a weightlifting regimen. Go to most gyms and they'll look like our military's special forces units.

    Replies: @Anon, @Corvinus

    Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units.

    Paging Twinkie …

  67. @Jack D
    @Abe

    Psychoanalysis was the whitest, most "Jewish" thing imaginable and has no place on the colorful Woke Left. It is, like many Jewish thing, the diametric opposite of black culture. Blacks are into self-esteem and too much self reflection tends to dent self esteem.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Blacks are into self-esteem and too much self reflection tends to dent self esteem.

    In their case, understandably.

  68. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Men and women are built differently, and leg crossing is esier for women. Not having junk to squash is a secondary, pelvic structure is primary. A woman has to be truly fat indeed to have problems crossing her legs. I used to be “chubby” and it was very uncomfortable for me then and still is, I’m a lot thinner now.

  69. @Chrisnonymous
    @Sean

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he's only got one ball.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @Sean

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he’s only got one ball.

    Goebbels too, cause they’re very small…

  70. @Chrisnonymous
    @Sean

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he's only got one ball.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @Sean

    There was actually no evidence for that, or the other one being in the Albert Hall. Apparently it was a rumor British intelligence liked to spread about the enemies of Great Britain…there was also a (doctored) picture going around supposedly showing he’d been circumcised.

  71. @Anon
    @anon

    Taking up two seats on the subway for no good reason is really annoying.

    An academic feminist's job, pretty much, is to take all the annoying features of life and pin them on male supremacy. Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it's hard.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    Taking up two seats on the subway for no good reason is really annoying.

    Is there a *good* reason to occupy two seats?

    Fat-assed lard: bad reason.
    Manspreading: bad reason.
    Creeper no one wants to sit next to: bad reason.

  72. @Erik L
    I don't buy it. It may be an affectation on some peoples' parts but I did that since I was a kid because my legs just can't do the tradition knee over knee thing. Some combination of thigh size and maybe joint orientation relative to something. If you have skinny legs and it's easy to do, fine. For some of us anything but at least a slight spread (or ankle rests on knee) doesn't work

    Replies: @95Theses

    I’m with you. It has nothing to do with asserting dominance (like marking territory) – it’s all about what’s most comfortable. The presence of male genitalia may have something to do with needing more room, but I also find leaning back on the rear legs of a four-legged chair comfortable, too – because it takes the stress off my back. How could dominance be read into that? And why should any of the above comfort positions bother another human being in a public context? That any mental energy is being expended on how men sit is beyond silly and not worth my time.

    And while I have yet to be womansplained concerning the manner in which I choose to sit, if and when that should happen I already have some readymade responses sure to get the veins bulging in Miss Busybody’s neck. And a layer of icing in the form of the most condescending chortle I can muster. ツ

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @95Theses


    It has nothing to do with asserting dominance – it’s all about what’s most comfortable.
     
    I think being comfortable is dominance -asserting.
  73. @Jack D
    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions. Women would bring them coffee and sex and pansies need not apply. A lot of white radicals copied black mannerisms (or Cuban Communist ones) and black and Cuban revolutionaries were especially macho. In the Sixties Generation, crossing your legs knee on knee came to be seen as effeminate and no respectable teenage boy was going to be seen to do anything remotely effeminate.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @dfordoom

    In my H.S., the football coach instructed his players not to sit in class with crossed legs. (The definite article dates me; there was only 1 football coach.)

  74. @dvorak
    @Prosa123


    School psychoanalyst???
     
    Psychoanalysis was the most important Scientific Fad of the mid-20th century. The best and brightest fell for it, with few second thoughts.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Kronos

    Or as the great Sir Peter Medawar put it “the most stupendous intellectual confidence trick of the 20th century”.

    • Agree: jim jones
  75. @bomag
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yeah, Kaus's got the suit and tie; was that the sartorial choice for a seventeen year old talking to the Man in 1968?

    Reed seems more dressed for the occasion, but a twenty six year old New York musician, who I didn't think was that famous in 1968, speaking for high school students, seems a bit out of place.

    Replies: @anonymous

    The student body at Beverly Hills High School was probably hipper than average. I still have to assume at least half of them had never heard of the Velvet Underground.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    Inviting the Velvet Underground was pretty much 100% student body president Mickey Kaus's idea.

  76. I commuted by bus for about thirty years. Almost everyone who did this was young, male, and black.

  77. @Jack D
    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions. Women would bring them coffee and sex and pansies need not apply. A lot of white radicals copied black mannerisms (or Cuban Communist ones) and black and Cuban revolutionaries were especially macho. In the Sixties Generation, crossing your legs knee on knee came to be seen as effeminate and no respectable teenage boy was going to be seen to do anything remotely effeminate.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @dfordoom

    Stokely Carmichael told an audience that the place of women in the movement was prone.

    It was meant as a joke, but for a long time it was true.

  78. @anonymous
    @bomag

    The student body at Beverly Hills High School was probably hipper than average. I still have to assume at least half of them had never heard of the Velvet Underground.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Inviting the Velvet Underground was pretty much 100% student body president Mickey Kaus’s idea.

  79. But what caused this shift from crosslegged to openlegged?

    John Wayne? The high-class socialite movies of Clark Gable and Carey Grant presented an image of how a man should behave, but the boom in cowboy movies in the 50s gave an alternative look to manhood.

    Footage of 50s James Dean ‘in character’ as a cowboy. There is a flash of his 40s style host crossing his legs @0:11 (Hey kids, don’t drive fast)

    The shift from public venues like movie theaters and church to TV viewing at home, where there was nobody to judge you. I think furniture got bigger and more comfortable.

    The break down of discipline in the public schools.

    The shift from public transportation to the automobile. The term manspreading is 21st NYC lingo which of course the rest of the US has to be familiar with to be current. But cross-legged sitting is hard in a car, which began taking over transportation while manspreading is rude on public transportation.

    The female complaint about manspreading might indicate the demographic change in NYC. As NYC became more White and Asian ‘Beckies’ were emboldened in their complaints about fellow passengers, which they would never make in the 70s and 80s.

    Busing? Maybe those ubiquitous yellow school buses with their long flat bench seating and limited leg room made leg spreading tempting and easy.

  80. Sort of off topic, sort of on: NYT caught with its pants down again. And the supposed mechanism of the alleged offense is so preposterous I had to see if perhaps Sabrina Rubin Erdely was the author.

    It’s just one of those things that’s never once happened in all of human history (friends get together to guide someone’s tool into someone else’s hand) but which feminists just know has to be real.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nyt-kavanaugh-bombshell-goes-bust-after-2020-dems-use-it-to-call-for-impeachment

  81. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    From Reason.com:

    reason: Let’s get to the most important thing. You got the Velvet Underground to play at your high school. What was your high school and what year are we talking about?

    Kaus: I went to Beverly Hills High School, something I can never mention on the campaign trail. It’s like death. Beverly Hills High School is just like Scarsdale west. It has a few movie stars, but it’s basically a very good rich Jewish high school. At least it was when I went there.

    This was the early days of pot in 1968, I guess, or ’67. I went to the Shrine Auditorium and saw this group, the Velvet Underground. What Jonathan Richman says about them is true: They’re four people dressed in black standing there very formally making these incredible sounds. They’re like this infernal machine of sound. How the hell did they make that much sound? And they were very charismatic. The songs were truthful and I thought Lou Reed was charismatic and I just loved them.

    I was student body president at the time, and I decided: Why not try to get these guys to come to the high school? They were in town so I called up the Whiskey A-Go-Go. They transferred me to the motel where they were staying. I called them at the motel. This was the day after they recorded their third album. Their manager, who was a totally crazy man, swore to the school’s vice principal that there were no drug references in any of their songs. “I’m Waiting for My Man” is just about a homosexual pick-up, nothing to do with drugs. And she bought this, and I later got to distract her while they were singing “Heroin” on the stage.

    So they showed up. You remember, they were a failed band, right? So they were desperate to have an audience.

    They’d just finished the album the night before. I don’t think they’d gone to sleep. Maybe some drugs were involved, I don’t know. They played very well. Then we had a panel discussion with the Velvet Underground, the school psychiatrist, me, and the leader of the school marching band. I wish I had a film of this. Lou Reed and the psychiatrist got into this incredible pissing match. The psychiatrist said, “I did like your music but it’s too loud. It hurts lab rats.” And Lou Reed said, “If I was a lab rat, maybe I’d care,” or something. They just hated each other and they were all jerks, Lou Reed and everybody else. It was considered a disaster because they weren’t getting along; we were supposed to have sweetness and light and there was contention. But in retrospect, it was a neat thing.

    https://reason.com/2010/07/19/mickey-kaus-interview/

    Kaus added some details and corrections later in his Daily Caller blog:

    In 1968 I got the Velvet Underground to play at a mandatory student assembly at my high school in Beverly Hills, California. Nick Gillespie of Reason asked me about it a few years ago–the account is at the end of [an] interview.

    A couple of amendations: 1) I don’t think I would have described the Velvets’ songs as “truthful,’ not that they aren’t. Must be mistranscribed. 2) There was only one VU member who could have been called a “jerk.” Sterling Morrison, Maureen Tucker and Doug Yule were very nice. Lou Reed claimed early on in the discussion that his music was based on a 13 tone Tibetan scale, or something like that, and it went downhill from there. Admittedly, he was mildly provoked by the school psychiatrist; 3) They played “Pale Blue Eyes” and “I Can’t Stand It.” During lunch hour they played “Heroin” and “Sister Ray.” Steve Wasserman was disciplined for getting up and dancing. 4) In order to get the assembly approved by the school authorities I had to write up a little page-long pitch, which if I remember right described their songs as the “expression of apocalyptic nihilism.” It must be hilarious now. I should try to find it. For some reason, they approved the assembly, after the Velvets’ manager Stephen Sesnick assured the Girls’ Vice Principal that there were no drug references in any of their songs. 5) Why did they do it? My impression was that Sesnick wanted to connect with “the kids.” 6) Years later, I’m told, Lou Reed denied this event ever happened.

    https://dailycaller.com/2013/10/28/lou-reed-at-beverly-high/

  82. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    More:

    The Twelve Strangest Velvet Underground Concerts Ever Given

    :
    :

    8. Beverly Hills High School, Late October-November 1968: Believe it or not, the Velvet Underground did play at this most famed and ritzy of American high schools sometime in the fall of 1968, probably while recording their third album and playing a few gigs in Los Angeles.

    Though exact date hasn’t been pinned down, we have proof it takes place, the damning evidence being a photo in the Beverly Hills High School 1968-69 yearbook of the band sitting amiably onstage with what look like various school officials and students. The quartet’s haircuts and wardrobe make it virtually certain that this must have taken place in the fall of 1968, so similar are they to promo pictures of the group taken during this time.

    The Velvets seem unlikely candidates to play for teenagers at one of the most affluent public high schools in the United States, but apparently it wasn’t not wholly atypical of the programs staged in the building’s auditorium.

    That same year saw famous novelist James Baldwin and Malcolm X’s cousin Hakim Jamal, one-time president of the Malcolm X Organization of Afro-American Unity Inc., speak to students at the same facility. A few years later, the house band of Father Yod’s hippie cult The Source Family gave a concert on the institution’s outdoor grounds.

    More conventionally, pop-rock hitmakers Three Dog Night and early country-rock pioneers Poco (then called Pogo) also played at the high school during this semester.

    “I don’t remember that at all,” admitted an incredulous Doug Yule when shown the yearbook pictures. “That makes me think maybe I was abducted by aliens or something!”

    http://www.richieunterberger.com/vucon.html

    Yule’s “I don’t remember it” might have morphed into Mickey’s “I heard Lou denied it” via a trick of memory.

  83. @slumber_j
    @Buzz Mohawk


    I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.
     
    It doesn't squish your stuff: your stuff rides on top.

    I'm just old enough at 54 that I'm on the cusp of that transition: I know people who cross their legs the old way and people who do it the new way. In my experience it's very much a class-driven phenomenon.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Anti-Gnostic

    It’s a physique phenomenon. If you have short/thick thighs, you will not be able to cross your legs like that. So, someone with a length diameter ratio like Jared Taylor’s can easily loop one leg over the other but if you’re built like Mike Tyson you’d have to be tied in that position.

  84. @95Theses
    @Erik L

    I'm with you. It has nothing to do with asserting dominance (like marking territory) – it's all about what's most comfortable. The presence of male genitalia may have something to do with needing more room, but I also find leaning back on the rear legs of a four-legged chair comfortable, too – because it takes the stress off my back. How could dominance be read into that? And why should any of the above comfort positions bother another human being in a public context? That any mental energy is being expended on how men sit is beyond silly and not worth my time.

    And while I have yet to be womansplained concerning the manner in which I choose to sit, if and when that should happen I already have some readymade responses sure to get the veins bulging in Miss Busybody's neck. And a layer of icing in the form of the most condescending chortle I can muster. ツ

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    It has nothing to do with asserting dominance – it’s all about what’s most comfortable.

    I think being comfortable is dominance -asserting.

  85. @Anonymous
    Crossed legs are seen as effeminate. This was true at my school in the 1980s. Boys who did this would be mocked.

    Actually, now that I think of it, the 'accepted' way of crossing your legs was in a 'T' with one leg perpendicular to the other. That wasn't considered effeminate. But like 'manspreading' it also took up a lot of space.

    Replies: @old man

    I agree. Crossing legs is sign of femininity. If you sit in a T or with open legs when no one is near, is your own business. If it is crowded, other rules apply. If lesbo-feminists-sjw don’t like it they should just go somewhere else.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @old man

    "Signs" are (often) culturally driven and change over time. I would bet you that the two older guys in the picture were WWII or Korean vets and (rightly) did not see themselves as the least bit feminine because they were crossing their legs in a style that was once seen as appropriate for both genders. These were guys who might have nailed the enemy at 500 yards or gutted them with their bayonets so they didn't need to depend on phony body language signals to convey their masculinity.

    Despite the arguments about your junk getting in the way, there is no anatomical reason why men can't do this (as this photo perfectly illustrates). Manspreading is supposed to send the message "my junk is so enormous that I can't even cross my legs" but it's a phony macho message. The knee cross is only "feminine" because insecure black influenced 60s culture decided that it was feminine. If you cross your arms is that feminine or masculine? Neither because both men and women have similar skeletal anatomy.

    Replies: @Marquandian Hero

  86. @Lugash
    @Corvinus


    Tom Wolfe had noticed the phenomenon, and gave it its classic — though unknown to these man-o-sphere types
     
    In mau-mauing the flak catchers he describes how one of the flak catchers does the backwards chair pose.

    Personally I can't do the knee-knee without my leg shooting off at a 45 degree angle and looking goofy. I've got narrow hips, so I think bio mechanics are against me.

    The other reason knee-knee is dumb is that it tends to expose a patch of pasty white shin.

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    In mau-mauing the flak catchers he describes how one of the flak catchers does the backwards chair pose.

    I remember doing that backwards chair thing in the 1980s. I can’t, for the life of me, recall why.

  87. @dvorak
    @Prosa123


    School psychoanalyst???
     
    Psychoanalysis was the most important Scientific Fad of the mid-20th century. The best and brightest fell for it, with few second thoughts.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Kronos

    Behaviorism was another tar pit.

  88. @Tono Bungay
    I'm inclined to think that women have long been particularly taught not to sit with their legs apart, for obvious reasons in dress- and skirt-wearing days, and that "manspreading" may in part be the result of men's being (relatively) free of that injunction. Still, I ride the commuter train almost every day, and I think many of what some women think of as an act of male dominance is simply a result of inconsiderateness or outright selfishness. Plenty of men, and some women, take up more room than they are obviously entitled to, and as I am a man myself I can't ascribe that to any sort of misogyny. I am reminded that Anthony M. Ludovici, a very interesting anti-modernist kook, always insisted that skirts were the only suitable attire for men, as they tended to keep the testes cooler than pants, which in his view suited women's bodies much better.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    …pants, which in his view suited women’s bodies much better.

    Any man who needs to have it explained to him why skirts and dresses are preferable on a woman is hopeless.

  89. Steve,

    In the not so distant future will “Mau Mauing the Flak Catchers” be the best chronicle of that time’s prevailing lunacy?

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Dan Hayes

    In many ways it’s been ongoing for the last 50+ years. Black welfare jokes emerge from an eternal spring of observable material. (Though SJWs try and kill anyone who uses them.)

    https://pics.me.me/how-to-get-welfare-1-be-black-2-collect-welfare-51257131.png

  90. @Abe
    @SFG


    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

     

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    Replies: @Jack D, @SFG, @Kronos, @JackOH

    “I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack.”

    Might be better (and much easier) to takeover those institutions once the pensions blowup. They’ll utilize so much political capital in a vain attempt to save pensions that they’ll become a spent political force.

  91. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    In the not so distant future will "Mau Mauing the Flak Catchers" be the best chronicle of that time's prevailing lunacy?

    Replies: @Kronos

    In many ways it’s been ongoing for the last 50+ years. Black welfare jokes emerge from an eternal spring of observable material. (Though SJWs try and kill anyone who uses them.)

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  92. @old man
    @Anonymous

    I agree. Crossing legs is sign of femininity. If you sit in a T or with open legs when no one is near, is your own business. If it is crowded, other rules apply. If lesbo-feminists-sjw don't like it they should just go somewhere else.

    Replies: @Jack D

    “Signs” are (often) culturally driven and change over time. I would bet you that the two older guys in the picture were WWII or Korean vets and (rightly) did not see themselves as the least bit feminine because they were crossing their legs in a style that was once seen as appropriate for both genders. These were guys who might have nailed the enemy at 500 yards or gutted them with their bayonets so they didn’t need to depend on phony body language signals to convey their masculinity.

    Despite the arguments about your junk getting in the way, there is no anatomical reason why men can’t do this (as this photo perfectly illustrates). Manspreading is supposed to send the message “my junk is so enormous that I can’t even cross my legs” but it’s a phony macho message. The knee cross is only “feminine” because insecure black influenced 60s culture decided that it was feminine. If you cross your arms is that feminine or masculine? Neither because both men and women have similar skeletal anatomy.

    • Replies: @Marquandian Hero
    @Jack D

    Agree. Both my Dad (b. 1945) and late grandfather (b. 1910) cross/crossed their legs without any social censure. I have fairly long legs, as did they, and don't find that the junk gets in the way, although I find it distinctly more comfortable to cross right over left than left over right. I tend to cross with my shin just above the sock resting on my left knee. I can do it closer, but although it, again, does not cause discomfort, it does make it rather too warm.


    Also anecdotally agree with the poster above who suggested this may be class related. We lived in a grittier and increasingly diverse suburb for a bit while my parents were recovering their full time employment during the early 90s recession. Those kids--of all races-- gave me a hard time when I occssionally crossed my legs, suggesting it was gay to do so (this would be c. 5th or 6th grade). After my parents both got full time jobs again, we moved to a 95% white, much richer town and the subject never came up. Not once.

  93. @Jack D
    @old man

    "Signs" are (often) culturally driven and change over time. I would bet you that the two older guys in the picture were WWII or Korean vets and (rightly) did not see themselves as the least bit feminine because they were crossing their legs in a style that was once seen as appropriate for both genders. These were guys who might have nailed the enemy at 500 yards or gutted them with their bayonets so they didn't need to depend on phony body language signals to convey their masculinity.

    Despite the arguments about your junk getting in the way, there is no anatomical reason why men can't do this (as this photo perfectly illustrates). Manspreading is supposed to send the message "my junk is so enormous that I can't even cross my legs" but it's a phony macho message. The knee cross is only "feminine" because insecure black influenced 60s culture decided that it was feminine. If you cross your arms is that feminine or masculine? Neither because both men and women have similar skeletal anatomy.

    Replies: @Marquandian Hero

    Agree. Both my Dad (b. 1945) and late grandfather (b. 1910) cross/crossed their legs without any social censure. I have fairly long legs, as did they, and don’t find that the junk gets in the way, although I find it distinctly more comfortable to cross right over left than left over right. I tend to cross with my shin just above the sock resting on my left knee. I can do it closer, but although it, again, does not cause discomfort, it does make it rather too warm.

    Also anecdotally agree with the poster above who suggested this may be class related. We lived in a grittier and increasingly diverse suburb for a bit while my parents were recovering their full time employment during the early 90s recession. Those kids–of all races– gave me a hard time when I occssionally crossed my legs, suggesting it was gay to do so (this would be c. 5th or 6th grade). After my parents both got full time jobs again, we moved to a 95% white, much richer town and the subject never came up. Not once.

  94. Lou Reed and Micky Kaus in the same class? Reminds me of Barbara Streisand and Bobby Fischer in the same class. In 40 years, what we will be pointing out about high school classes in LA? I don’t think it is going to be a Lou Reed and a Micky Kaus or a World Chess Champion and a super annoying singer. I wonder.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ibound1

    Reed is a decade older than Kaus and was there as a guest speaker, presumably recruited by class president Kaus because the old white guys in the photo probably had no idea who he was back then.

  95. @Buzz Mohawk
    If that were a video instead of a photo, maybe all four would be crossing and uncrossing their legs with different frequency. Then occasionally they all would cross and uncross at the same time before going back into apparent chaos, like billiard balls on strings.

    No lateral knocking, just legs of different lengths.

    Groovy.

    All seriousness aside, my old non-verbal communication professor said manspreading is a display of masculinity, a showing off of equipment instinctive to men everywhere. I say it is just more comfortable not to squish your stuff.

    Replies: @anon, @slumber_j, @BenKenobi, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @LazarusL

    In obedience to the feminist commandment that “Thou shalt not empathize with mankind as with womankind,” feminists seem determined not to understand that having a bag filled with testicles suspended between one’s legs makes sitting with the knees primly pressed together rather uncomfortable.

  96. @Chrisnonymous
    @Sean

    Yeah, Hitler can cross his legs, but he's only got one ball.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @Sean

    Hate to think what would have happened if he had a full set.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Sean

    12 million!

  97. @Chrisnonymous
    @Corvinus

    Blacks usually lift weights in prison. Malt liquor, marijuana, crack, skirt-chasing, fleeing the cops--none of these are conducive to a weightlifting regimen. Go to most gyms and they'll look like our military's special forces units.

    Replies: @Anon, @Corvinus

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Corvinus

    I'm not sure what you're trying to say, or in what way you think you are contradicting the previous commenter.

    , @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    A younger acquaintance of mine has bulked up considerably since joining the Marines. (Sadly, he’s gone overboard on the tats.)

    Fitness model Greg Plitt, a former Army Ranger, appeared on the covers of dozens of muscle magazines:
    https://i.ibb.co/Kj1n39z/494340-C3-C883-43-B3-A350-39571118-E547.jpg

    He died (at 37) while trying to outrun a speeding train at a photo shoot for an energy-drink advertisement.

    Brawn over brains...

    Replies: @Jack D

  98. @prosa123
    @Corvinus

    In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity. You'll see blacks in gyms, but not in any disproportionate numbers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

    “In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity.”

    LOL, no. It is a human activity for those men and women who seek to lose weight and/or get ripped.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others. One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns, like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it.

    Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?

    Replies: @Corvinus

  99. @Disordered Always
    @Corvinus

    Same difference.
    Negro-styles were and are loved by loveless feminazis, and are promoted by them since Elvis and the Beatles. That is, until they saw that these Negro attitudes don't work on whites (they become soft, haughty, creepy, or redneck, no in-betweens), and with feminazis who did go full black now mostly stuck with mixed-race babies with few good/rich fathers. Thus now these feminazis are promoting local soyboys to feed from and cuck on, while bringing in the wealthier browns from abroad - and divorcing them as well, continuing the cycle of deteste-fication.
    Before, with both segregation and elite-culture, each race had its own beauty and posture standards, which changed according to fashion but remained on certain averages (i.e. pants mostly for males). White masculinity was both more diverse and less effeminate, it did not have to compete with black excess testosterone, or suave exotic browns; the latter also did not have to compete with rich white "Mad Men", who stuck to white women, thus kept their own cultures' standards.
    Obesity (descending from softness) and jeans (from a phony movie-manhood) also helped. Perhaps also TV, as mass media has both universalized and accentuated different aesthetics. Thus, ankle over knee became valid, it's physically harder and relatively effete to do knee over knee now.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Negro-styles were and are loved by loveless feminazis, and are promoted by them since Elvis and the Beatles. That is, until they saw that these Negro attitudes don’t work on whites (they become soft, haughty, creepy, or redneck, no in-betweens), and with feminazis who did go full black now mostly stuck with mixed-race babies with few good/rich fathers.”

    Is that you, Whiskey?

    “Before, with both segregation and elite-culture, each race had its own beauty and posture standards, which changed according to fashion but remained on certain averages (i.e. pants mostly for males).

    Does not the human race matter most?

    “White masculinity was both more diverse and less effeminate, it did not have to compete with black excess testosterone, or suave exotic browns; the latter also did not have to compete with rich white “Mad Men”, who stuck to white women, thus kept their own cultures’ standards.”

    There is no such thing as “white masculinity”, just “masculinity”.

  100. @Whiskey
    @Corvinus

    Crossing ones legs or not is trivial. What is really going on is the rage White women have against White men. They no longer need male income so only the sexiest will do. The rest of us they'd rather gulag real or virtual.

    The most low level pro athlete has a hotter girlfriend than Bill Gates and Zuckerberg combined. Which shows how much male provision matters ... None. And how repulsive male intelligence really is.

    Both men would have bailed much hotter if they'd acted like a Black pimp.

    White women are in a constant rage over the lack of sexy dominance in their men. No billionaire bondage lovers or sparkly gay vampires in sight.

    The rage drives the complaints not vice versa

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “What is really going on is the rage White women have against White men.”

    Only in your mind is this phenomenon occurring.

  101. @Corvinus
    @Chrisnonymous

    "Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units."

    Actually, our military is buff.

    https://www.bodyfortress.com/news/get-fit-with-the-military-workout-plan

    https://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/weights-and-pt-workouts

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/6-week-navy-seal-workout-routine

    Replies: @Anon, @Stan Adams

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, or in what way you think you are contradicting the previous commenter.

  102. @Ibound1
    Lou Reed and Micky Kaus in the same class? Reminds me of Barbara Streisand and Bobby Fischer in the same class. In 40 years, what we will be pointing out about high school classes in LA? I don't think it is going to be a Lou Reed and a Micky Kaus or a World Chess Champion and a super annoying singer. I wonder.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Reed is a decade older than Kaus and was there as a guest speaker, presumably recruited by class president Kaus because the old white guys in the photo probably had no idea who he was back then.

  103. @Corvinus
    @prosa123

    "In my experience weight training is a predominately white activity."

    LOL, no. It is a human activity for those men and women who seek to lose weight and/or get ripped.

    Replies: @Jack D

    There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others. One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns, like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it.

    Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    "There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others."

    Sure. But weight training is an activity enjoyed by all races and ethnic groups. In other words, it is a human activity. Pray tell, what are your metrics as far as indicating it is "predominately white"?

    "One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns..."

    First, we are all racist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt4-6Nypn8

    Second, sometimes those patterns which are NOTICED are just a tad bit convoluted.

    "like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it."

    Like most white guys?

    "Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?"

    It is still is a thing.

    https://www.askmen.com/grooming/appearance/why-men-should-get-manicures-and-pedicures.html

    https://www.gq.com/story/waht-you-need-to-know-about-male-pedicure

    Replies: @Anon

  104. @Corvinus
    @Chrisnonymous

    "Go to most gyms and they’ll look like our military’s special forces units."

    Actually, our military is buff.

    https://www.bodyfortress.com/news/get-fit-with-the-military-workout-plan

    https://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/weights-and-pt-workouts

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/6-week-navy-seal-workout-routine

    Replies: @Anon, @Stan Adams

    A younger acquaintance of mine has bulked up considerably since joining the Marines. (Sadly, he’s gone overboard on the tats.)

    Fitness model Greg Plitt, a former Army Ranger, appeared on the covers of dozens of muscle magazines:

    He died (at 37) while trying to outrun a speeding train at a photo shoot for an energy-drink advertisement.

    Brawn over brains…

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Stan Adams

    Usain Bolt going at maximum speed can do 27 mph (for a few dozen yards). Unless it was a very slow moving train he was not going to outrun it no matter how hopped up on fitness drinks he was.

    Magazine covers like this always looked like they had a homoerotic vibe to them but maybe it's just me and my homophobic, manspreading generation and the fitness fans who look at these books are not one bit gay. What do I know?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  105. @Sean

    https://archive.org/stream/TheOrdealOfCivilityFreudJohnMurrayCuddihy/The%20Ordeal%20Of%20Civility_%20Freud%2C%20-%20John%20Murray%20Cuddihy_djvu.txt

    Resistance to “the primary rule” of psychoanalytic candor (the “ethic of honesty”) Reich believed, took the form of character resistance : the defenses against insight into the infantile sources in the id of the patient’s current pathology anchored themselves in the very physiology of the body, in “stiff upper lips,” in the tendency to “grin and bear it,” in evasive movements of the eyes, in shielding the genitalia by crossing the legs, in—the last stronghold of retreating anxiety—a rigid pelvis. [...]

    The analogy here to Reich’s namesake and heir—Charles Reich—is “no accident.” In Reich II Charles), the masculine genitality of Reich I’s thirties protest has been tenderized into the soft androgeny of the American seventies, where ingenuous green shoots of “the green¬ing of America” make their way up through the civilities of the Gentile Gesellschaft of “consciousness II.
     

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Thank you. I was just thinking Cuddihy might have some thoughts on that photo a la The Ordeal of Civiility.

  106. @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others. One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns, like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it.

    Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others.”

    Sure. But weight training is an activity enjoyed by all races and ethnic groups. In other words, it is a human activity. Pray tell, what are your metrics as far as indicating it is “predominately white”?

    “One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns…”

    First, we are all racist.

    Second, sometimes those patterns which are NOTICED are just a tad bit convoluted.

    “like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it.”

    Like most white guys?

    “Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?”

    It is still is a thing.

    https://www.askmen.com/grooming/appearance/why-men-should-get-manicures-and-pedicures.html

    https://www.gq.com/story/waht-you-need-to-know-about-male-pedicure

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Corvinus


    First, we are all racist.
     
    No, first catch your hare.

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511EVG03PPL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

  107. It takes just one photo from before this to kill this story or this narrative. Ready to go there?

  108. I am 100% in favor of women spreading their legs. It’ s good thing.

  109. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    "There are a lot of things that are human activities but are enjoyed more by some races/classes/genders than others."

    Sure. But weight training is an activity enjoyed by all races and ethnic groups. In other words, it is a human activity. Pray tell, what are your metrics as far as indicating it is "predominately white"?

    "One of the weird things that we do around here (which is almost extinct in the rest of society because noticing is racist) is to take note of these patterns..."

    First, we are all racist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt4-6Nypn8

    Second, sometimes those patterns which are NOTICED are just a tad bit convoluted.

    "like how working on a garbage truck is a human activity but for some reason mostly guys want to do it."

    Like most white guys?

    "Does anyone remember when it was a thing for well groomed (not gay) men to get manicures with clear nail polish?"

    It is still is a thing.

    https://www.askmen.com/grooming/appearance/why-men-should-get-manicures-and-pedicures.html

    https://www.gq.com/story/waht-you-need-to-know-about-male-pedicure

    Replies: @Anon

    First, we are all racist.

    No, first catch your hare.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anon

    Hannah was also the inventor of clickbait, in 1747.

    Chapter 3 was entitled:


    Read this Chapter, and you will find how expensive a French Cook's Sauce is.
     
    This is the exact format of clickbait used today. She was also plagued by people pirating her book.
    As a security measure, her book were signed (meaning that she literally signed each one, with a pen).
    Everything old is new again.
    , @Corvinus
    @Anon

    "No, first catch your hare."

    https://wordhistories.net/2017/07/03/first-catch-your-hare-origin/

    And, yes, we are all racist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YTBjM4jnSk

    Replies: @Anon

  110. @Abe
    @SFG


    Yeah, that was a thing back then. Lefties were really into psychoanalysis through about 1980 or so, but it hung around into the 90s among older people on the Upper West Side. Just watch any old Woody Allen movie.

    I remember thinking how stupid it was as a kid, and how glad I would be when the left-wing intellectuals finally got around to ditching Freud. Oh God was I wrong.

     

    PAUL BLART MALL COP could not have come in on a better segue(way) .

    I 100% agree with your sentiment, but for the past year or so have been unable to stop toying with the idea that the most effective, not to mention humane, way for us alt-right types to launch our counter-reformation would be to pluck some lightly-guarded, yet extremely pivotal, domain of the humanities or professions and turn it into a strongpoint from which to launch our counterattack. And no domain strikes me as more ripe for the plucking than the psychological helping professions.

    The darker side of my id dreams of the day we’ll be able to rewrite the DSM to label SJWism for the mental disease it is; but being an Enlightenment guy at heart who doesn’t really want to live in a Foucaultian nightmare where political opponents are locked away in mental hospitals, I’ll settle for the revival of certain key post-war psychoanalytic concepts.

    For example, anyone else remember the once ubiquitous notion of the ‘guilt trip’, where the whole point was to alleviate personal feelings of guilt, helplessness, and ennui by pointing out the opportunism of those trying to engender the feelings of guilt? How small a step, then, from getting everyone to recognize what a guilt trip is and why it’s bad to then swatting away reparations talk and Michael Brown worship because, you know man, those things seem awfully like a guilt trip you’re trying to lay on me?

    Replies: @Jack D, @SFG, @Kronos, @JackOH

    Abe, buddy, this is a truly great comment. You sound like you’ve had political experience, or you have really strong native political instincts.

    When our gracious host, Ron Unz, starts his nationwide Unzianite political training seminars, I’d really like to hear you limn the last 50-some years of our misbegotten politics through the lens of the guilt trip. Maybe 40 minutes, with 20 minutes for Q & A. I think it would click with folks. (I actually believe a lot of folks here have been successfully and very wrongly guilted by our bad politics into believing they’re bad persons. They’re not.)

    Ron, what about weekend and nationwide political training seminars with speakers suited to your style of thinking? Scholarly, disinterested in the best sense of the term, and reality-based. Friday night through Sunday morning at a local Quality Inn or equivalent. Maybe $300 for the package, two nights plus the speakers, and toss in a signed copy of your book for good measure.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @JackOH

    JackOH:

    The problem would be to get a venue. Remember vdare has been shunted out while American Renaissance was forced to a Tennessee government facility. But let's see how Chairman Ron would use his native ingenuity to handle any such potential problem.

    Replies: @JackOH

  111. @Anon
    @Corvinus


    First, we are all racist.
     
    No, first catch your hare.

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511EVG03PPL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

    Hannah was also the inventor of clickbait, in 1747.

    Chapter 3 was entitled:

    Read this Chapter, and you will find how expensive a French Cook’s Sauce is.

    This is the exact format of clickbait used today. She was also plagued by people pirating her book.
    As a security measure, her book were signed (meaning that she literally signed each one, with a pen).
    Everything old is new again.

  112. @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    A younger acquaintance of mine has bulked up considerably since joining the Marines. (Sadly, he’s gone overboard on the tats.)

    Fitness model Greg Plitt, a former Army Ranger, appeared on the covers of dozens of muscle magazines:
    https://i.ibb.co/Kj1n39z/494340-C3-C883-43-B3-A350-39571118-E547.jpg

    He died (at 37) while trying to outrun a speeding train at a photo shoot for an energy-drink advertisement.

    Brawn over brains...

    Replies: @Jack D

    Usain Bolt going at maximum speed can do 27 mph (for a few dozen yards). Unless it was a very slow moving train he was not going to outrun it no matter how hopped up on fitness drinks he was.

    Magazine covers like this always looked like they had a homoerotic vibe to them but maybe it’s just me and my homophobic, manspreading generation and the fitness fans who look at these books are not one bit gay. What do I know?

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    Yes, it was a silly, stupid death. Darwin Award-level idiocy.

    Muscle mags are definitely ultra-homo. Always have been.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefcake_magazine

    In another comment, someone claimed that whites frequent gyms more than blacks. Maybe, but it is indisputable that gays frequent gyms more than anybody.

    A number of the highest-earning gay muscle models have dropped dead of heart attacks in their late 20s and early 30s.

    Many gay men are complete and total hedonists. Without families to support, they spend all of their free time “having fun.” Life becomes an endless whirl of cheap sex, hard drugs, and strong booze. Addiction and alcoholism abound - as do STDs, of course. And once they hit middle age and their hard bodies start to sag, many of them end up lonely and miserable.

    Everything in gay culture is surface-oriented. The soul languishes, atrophies, and dies.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  113. @JackOH
    @Abe

    Abe, buddy, this is a truly great comment. You sound like you've had political experience, or you have really strong native political instincts.

    When our gracious host, Ron Unz, starts his nationwide Unzianite political training seminars, I'd really like to hear you limn the last 50-some years of our misbegotten politics through the lens of the guilt trip. Maybe 40 minutes, with 20 minutes for Q & A. I think it would click with folks. (I actually believe a lot of folks here have been successfully and very wrongly guilted by our bad politics into believing they're bad persons. They're not.)

    Ron, what about weekend and nationwide political training seminars with speakers suited to your style of thinking? Scholarly, disinterested in the best sense of the term, and reality-based. Friday night through Sunday morning at a local Quality Inn or equivalent. Maybe $300 for the package, two nights plus the speakers, and toss in a signed copy of your book for good measure.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    JackOH:

    The problem would be to get a venue. Remember vdare has been shunted out while American Renaissance was forced to a Tennessee government facility. But let’s see how Chairman Ron would use his native ingenuity to handle any such potential problem.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @Dan Hayes

    So, Dan, if you book now for Ron's ripping good seminar, I can save you 20%. LOL!!

    Your concern is 100% correct. Plus, a failed seminar prejudices subsequent efforts.

    One solution is complete humility and complete transparency. Tell the Quality Inn folks or other innkeeper-conference room people who you are, what you write about, the type of attendees you expect, that you plan on inviting local pols and other civic types, and that you're not looking for trouble, etc.

    Let the innkeeper-conference room people decide whether they want us. Serious.

    Norman Finkelstein, whose writing has appeared on these pages, spoke at a local college campus a year or two ago. He spoke, got interviewed, and left. Nothing else happened.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  114. @Jack D
    @Stan Adams

    Usain Bolt going at maximum speed can do 27 mph (for a few dozen yards). Unless it was a very slow moving train he was not going to outrun it no matter how hopped up on fitness drinks he was.

    Magazine covers like this always looked like they had a homoerotic vibe to them but maybe it's just me and my homophobic, manspreading generation and the fitness fans who look at these books are not one bit gay. What do I know?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Yes, it was a silly, stupid death. Darwin Award-level idiocy.

    Muscle mags are definitely ultra-homo. Always have been.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefcake_magazine

    In another comment, someone claimed that whites frequent gyms more than blacks. Maybe, but it is indisputable that gays frequent gyms more than anybody.

    A number of the highest-earning gay muscle models have dropped dead of heart attacks in their late 20s and early 30s.

    Many gay men are complete and total hedonists. Without families to support, they spend all of their free time “having fun.” Life becomes an endless whirl of cheap sex, hard drugs, and strong booze. Addiction and alcoholism abound – as do STDs, of course. And once they hit middle age and their hard bodies start to sag, many of them end up lonely and miserable.

    Everything in gay culture is surface-oriented. The soul languishes, atrophies, and dies.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "Many gay men are complete and total hedonists."

    Including Milo Y., the darling of the Alt Right?

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/01/08/response-to-vox-day

    How about Jack Donovan, another staunch Alt Righter?

    https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/jack-donovan-philosophical-fascists-of-the-gay-alt-right.html

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  115. @Jack D
    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions. Women would bring them coffee and sex and pansies need not apply. A lot of white radicals copied black mannerisms (or Cuban Communist ones) and black and Cuban revolutionaries were especially macho. In the Sixties Generation, crossing your legs knee on knee came to be seen as effeminate and no respectable teenage boy was going to be seen to do anything remotely effeminate.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @dfordoom

    The New Left (and this is hard to believe in these Woke Days) was originally very macho, sexist and homophobic. Manly men were going to lead the Revolution, just as they had led all past Revolutions.

    That was more like the last gasp of the Old Left. Leftists who still believed in stuff like socialism. For about 20 years starting from the late 60s the Left got infiltrated by feminists, homosexuals, drug-addled hippies, greenies, etc. and became more and more anti-socialist and pro-capitalist.

    1968 was a transitional period in the transformation of the old school socialist Left into the identity politics Left of today. Even in the late 70s there were still hardcore communists and Trotskyists around (I used to know a couple of Trotskyists back then).

    It was a gradual transformation with the purging of the actual communists and socialists largely completed by the end of the 90s.

    Of course even back in the 30s Orwell used to rail against the sandal-wearing vegetarian Pansy Left.

  116. @pontius
    Was there a bigger douchebag than Lou Reed?

    Replies: @Autochthon

    Ben Shapiro…?

    Steve Jobs…?

    Wait! Gavin Newsome. Definitely Gavin Newsome.

    (So many contenders, really….)

  117. @Dan Hayes
    @JackOH

    JackOH:

    The problem would be to get a venue. Remember vdare has been shunted out while American Renaissance was forced to a Tennessee government facility. But let's see how Chairman Ron would use his native ingenuity to handle any such potential problem.

    Replies: @JackOH

    So, Dan, if you book now for Ron’s ripping good seminar, I can save you 20%. LOL!!

    Your concern is 100% correct. Plus, a failed seminar prejudices subsequent efforts.

    One solution is complete humility and complete transparency. Tell the Quality Inn folks or other innkeeper-conference room people who you are, what you write about, the type of attendees you expect, that you plan on inviting local pols and other civic types, and that you’re not looking for trouble, etc.

    Let the innkeeper-conference room people decide whether they want us. Serious.

    Norman Finkelstein, whose writing has appeared on these pages, spoke at a local college campus a year or two ago. He spoke, got interviewed, and left. Nothing else happened.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @JackOH

    JackOH:

    Thanks for your response.

    I believe that there were instances in which both Brimelow and Taylor were eventually denied service after initially leveling/warning the venue about potential problems. There was one instance where Taylor was eventually denied service by a hitherto "hard nosed" DC hotel after very serious threats to the hotel's staff (BTW why didn't the FBI get on this case?).

    I also believe that when some time ago Finkelstein spoke at Columbia University (?) it was only under the tightest security.

    BTW Finkelstein seems to have been dropped from the UR. Too bad!

    Replies: @JackOH

  118. @JackOH
    @Dan Hayes

    So, Dan, if you book now for Ron's ripping good seminar, I can save you 20%. LOL!!

    Your concern is 100% correct. Plus, a failed seminar prejudices subsequent efforts.

    One solution is complete humility and complete transparency. Tell the Quality Inn folks or other innkeeper-conference room people who you are, what you write about, the type of attendees you expect, that you plan on inviting local pols and other civic types, and that you're not looking for trouble, etc.

    Let the innkeeper-conference room people decide whether they want us. Serious.

    Norman Finkelstein, whose writing has appeared on these pages, spoke at a local college campus a year or two ago. He spoke, got interviewed, and left. Nothing else happened.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    JackOH:

    Thanks for your response.

    I believe that there were instances in which both Brimelow and Taylor were eventually denied service after initially leveling/warning the venue about potential problems. There was one instance where Taylor was eventually denied service by a hitherto “hard nosed” DC hotel after very serious threats to the hotel’s staff (BTW why didn’t the FBI get on this case?).

    I also believe that when some time ago Finkelstein spoke at Columbia University (?) it was only under the tightest security.

    BTW Finkelstein seems to have been dropped from the UR. Too bad!

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @Dan Hayes

    Dan, thanks. I learned something---and it ain't good.

    If a heckler's veto or thug's veto can effectively pre-empt our freedom-of-assembly/free speech mojo, well, we're in serious trouble.

    A onetime salesman, I'm seeing mainstreamability in a lot of the stuff we talk about here. I've suggested an unobjectionable, broad-based public demonstration, Jobs for Geeks or Million Geek March, to galvanize interest in some of that mainstreamable stuff among Democrat and Republican participants. There's no interest here.

    Thanks again for your reply.

  119. @Anon
    @Corvinus


    First, we are all racist.
     
    No, first catch your hare.

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511EVG03PPL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Corvinus

    “No, first catch your hare.”

    https://wordhistories.net/2017/07/03/first-catch-your-hare-origin/

    And, yes, we are all racist.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Corvinus


    I'm racist (Full)
     
    That you're racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn't imply anything about anyone else.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  120. @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    Yes, it was a silly, stupid death. Darwin Award-level idiocy.

    Muscle mags are definitely ultra-homo. Always have been.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefcake_magazine

    In another comment, someone claimed that whites frequent gyms more than blacks. Maybe, but it is indisputable that gays frequent gyms more than anybody.

    A number of the highest-earning gay muscle models have dropped dead of heart attacks in their late 20s and early 30s.

    Many gay men are complete and total hedonists. Without families to support, they spend all of their free time “having fun.” Life becomes an endless whirl of cheap sex, hard drugs, and strong booze. Addiction and alcoholism abound - as do STDs, of course. And once they hit middle age and their hard bodies start to sag, many of them end up lonely and miserable.

    Everything in gay culture is surface-oriented. The soul languishes, atrophies, and dies.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Many gay men are complete and total hedonists.”

    Including Milo Y., the darling of the Alt Right?

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/01/08/response-to-vox-day

    How about Jack Donovan, another staunch Alt Righter?

    https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/jack-donovan-philosophical-fascists-of-the-gay-alt-right.html

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    Many ≠ all

    Replies: @Corvinus

  121. @Sean
    @Chrisnonymous

    Hate to think what would have happened if he had a full set.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    12 million!

  122. @Dan Hayes
    @JackOH

    JackOH:

    Thanks for your response.

    I believe that there were instances in which both Brimelow and Taylor were eventually denied service after initially leveling/warning the venue about potential problems. There was one instance where Taylor was eventually denied service by a hitherto "hard nosed" DC hotel after very serious threats to the hotel's staff (BTW why didn't the FBI get on this case?).

    I also believe that when some time ago Finkelstein spoke at Columbia University (?) it was only under the tightest security.

    BTW Finkelstein seems to have been dropped from the UR. Too bad!

    Replies: @JackOH

    Dan, thanks. I learned something—and it ain’t good.

    If a heckler’s veto or thug’s veto can effectively pre-empt our freedom-of-assembly/free speech mojo, well, we’re in serious trouble.

    A onetime salesman, I’m seeing mainstreamability in a lot of the stuff we talk about here. I’ve suggested an unobjectionable, broad-based public demonstration, Jobs for Geeks or Million Geek March, to galvanize interest in some of that mainstreamable stuff among Democrat and Republican participants. There’s no interest here.

    Thanks again for your reply.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  123. @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "Many gay men are complete and total hedonists."

    Including Milo Y., the darling of the Alt Right?

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/01/08/response-to-vox-day

    How about Jack Donovan, another staunch Alt Righter?

    https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/jack-donovan-philosophical-fascists-of-the-gay-alt-right.html

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Many ≠ all

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "Many ≠ all"

    You're being evasive. I thought only SJW's are elusive. The Alt Right stands for Western Civilization and Christendom. While Milo and Jack are fierce advocates for the West, their lifestyles directly contradict a fundamental tenet of Alt Right thought. Yet, these two individuals are considered "allies". Will they be expendable if and when this great revolution comes and liberals are thrown out of helicopters? Are they simple "useful idiots"? How do you justify their inclusion in the Alt Right if they willingly flaunt their homosexuality which runs counter to the Bible regarding sodomy?

    Lucy has some 'explainin' to do...

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Anonymous

  124. @Corvinus
    @Anon

    "No, first catch your hare."

    https://wordhistories.net/2017/07/03/first-catch-your-hare-origin/

    And, yes, we are all racist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YTBjM4jnSk

    Replies: @Anon

    I’m racist (Full)

    That you’re racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn’t imply anything about anyone else.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anon

    "That you’re racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn’t imply anything about anyone else."

    You're trying to be philosophical here, but it comes across as psycho-babble. Clear up your thoughts in your head, then lucidly articulate them in digital form.

    Replies: @Anon

  125. @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    Many ≠ all

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Many ≠ all”

    You’re being evasive. I thought only SJW’s are elusive. The Alt Right stands for Western Civilization and Christendom. While Milo and Jack are fierce advocates for the West, their lifestyles directly contradict a fundamental tenet of Alt Right thought. Yet, these two individuals are considered “allies”. Will they be expendable if and when this great revolution comes and liberals are thrown out of helicopters? Are they simple “useful idiots”? How do you justify their inclusion in the Alt Right if they willingly flaunt their homosexuality which runs counter to the Bible regarding sodomy?

    Lucy has some ‘explainin’ to do…

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    I don’t speak for the “alt-right.”

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Broken clocks being right twice a day, you ask a serious question.

    Many people who are of mixed race, part Jewish, married to same, or who are in some personal deviant situation, are both productive and are politically “correct” in the true sense. Yet, it’s clear to me that white, non Jewish, straight functional people need at least one country, one polity, that is without exception theirs alone. Just as Meir Kahane correctly stated Israel should be for all Jews and only Jews.

    The real “final solution” is not mass murder but something globalists and equalitarianism hate worse: separate countries.

    In Highpoppalorumland, horny young white males can bang all the willing Japanese tourist girls they want, liberal reform Jews can marry in or out, there are mulattos and mestizos and whatnot, everyone gets along, except when they don’t. In the Northwest American (or Aryan, a misnomer since Iranians are not allowed) Republic, any nonwhite, Jew, homosexual, or open advocate of same found there will not be found anywhere ever again. But the sign at the border says so.

    Infidels are not allowed in Mecca. Women are not allowed on Mount Athos. Men were not allowed in the Barbizon Hotel.

    Live with it.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  126. @Anon
    @Corvinus


    I'm racist (Full)
     
    That you're racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn't imply anything about anyone else.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “That you’re racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn’t imply anything about anyone else.”

    You’re trying to be philosophical here, but it comes across as psycho-babble. Clear up your thoughts in your head, then lucidly articulate them in digital form.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Corvinus


    You’re trying
     
    Argumentum ad hominem non argumentum est.
  127. @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "Many ≠ all"

    You're being evasive. I thought only SJW's are elusive. The Alt Right stands for Western Civilization and Christendom. While Milo and Jack are fierce advocates for the West, their lifestyles directly contradict a fundamental tenet of Alt Right thought. Yet, these two individuals are considered "allies". Will they be expendable if and when this great revolution comes and liberals are thrown out of helicopters? Are they simple "useful idiots"? How do you justify their inclusion in the Alt Right if they willingly flaunt their homosexuality which runs counter to the Bible regarding sodomy?

    Lucy has some 'explainin' to do...

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Anonymous

    I don’t speak for the “alt-right.”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "I don’t speak for the “alt-right.”"

    Yet you back them up. Regardless, you remain evasive.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  128. @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    I don’t speak for the “alt-right.”

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “I don’t speak for the “alt-right.””

    Yet you back them up. Regardless, you remain evasive.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus

    All fags are gay, but not all gays are fags.

  129. @Corvinus
    @Anon

    "That you’re racist and full (having first caught your hare, one hopes) doesn’t imply anything about anyone else."

    You're trying to be philosophical here, but it comes across as psycho-babble. Clear up your thoughts in your head, then lucidly articulate them in digital form.

    Replies: @Anon

    You’re trying

    Argumentum ad hominem non argumentum est.

  130. @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "I don’t speak for the “alt-right.”"

    Yet you back them up. Regardless, you remain evasive.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    All fags are gay, but not all gays are fags.

  131. Anonymous[160] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    @Stan Adams

    "Many ≠ all"

    You're being evasive. I thought only SJW's are elusive. The Alt Right stands for Western Civilization and Christendom. While Milo and Jack are fierce advocates for the West, their lifestyles directly contradict a fundamental tenet of Alt Right thought. Yet, these two individuals are considered "allies". Will they be expendable if and when this great revolution comes and liberals are thrown out of helicopters? Are they simple "useful idiots"? How do you justify their inclusion in the Alt Right if they willingly flaunt their homosexuality which runs counter to the Bible regarding sodomy?

    Lucy has some 'explainin' to do...

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Anonymous

    Broken clocks being right twice a day, you ask a serious question.

    Many people who are of mixed race, part Jewish, married to same, or who are in some personal deviant situation, are both productive and are politically “correct” in the true sense. Yet, it’s clear to me that white, non Jewish, straight functional people need at least one country, one polity, that is without exception theirs alone. Just as Meir Kahane correctly stated Israel should be for all Jews and only Jews.

    The real “final solution” is not mass murder but something globalists and equalitarianism hate worse: separate countries.

    In Highpoppalorumland, horny young white males can bang all the willing Japanese tourist girls they want, liberal reform Jews can marry in or out, there are mulattos and mestizos and whatnot, everyone gets along, except when they don’t. In the Northwest American (or Aryan, a misnomer since Iranians are not allowed) Republic, any nonwhite, Jew, homosexual, or open advocate of same found there will not be found anywhere ever again. But the sign at the border says so.

    Infidels are not allowed in Mecca. Women are not allowed on Mount Athos. Men were not allowed in the Barbizon Hotel.

    Live with it.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anonymous

    "Many people who are of mixed race, part Jewish, married to same, or who are in some personal deviant situation..."

    Are you implying that racing mixing is a "deviant situation"? If yes, you are making a wild generalization.

    "Yet, it’s clear to me that white, non Jewish, straight functional people need at least one country, one polity, that is without exception theirs alone."

    Clear to you, indeed. You assuredly entitled to your own opinion. Of course, it is up to the citizens of that country to determine who is and who is not part of their nation.

    "Just as Meir Kahane correctly stated Israel should be for all Jews and only Jews."

    What type of Jews?

    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/types-of-jews

    "The real “final solution” is not mass murder but something globalists and equalitarianism hate worse: separate countries."

    First, that is an assumption on your part regarding globalists and equalitarians about what they hate. Second, we do have separate countries. As I correctly stated earlier, citizens make their own decisions for their posterity, as to who and who is not part of their nation.

    "In Highpoppalorumland, horny young white males can bang all the willing Japanese tourist girls they want, liberal reform Jews can marry in or out, there are mulattos and mestizos and whatnot, everyone gets along, except when they don’t.

    "In the Northwest American (or Aryan, a misnomer since Iranians are not allowed) Republic, any nonwhite, Jew, homosexual, or open advocate of same found there will not be found anywhere ever again. But the sign at the border says so.

    "Infidels are not allowed in Mecca"

    With Muslims of any race and ethnicity allowed. Of course, your example is a religious in nature, not a nation-state issue.

    "Women are not allowed on Mount Athos".

    Non-Orthodox males must secure permission. According to Dr. Graham Speake, author of Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise, a 10th Century charter says nothing about women because "everyone knew that women were not allowed in men's monasteries". In other words, at that period of time, it was a cultural issue.

    "Men were not allowed in the Barbizon Hotel."

    That would be a a cultural-social issue reflective of the times.

    "Live with it".

    You really should be virtue signaling on your soapbox to the general public about how race mixing and "separate nations" ought to be part of our future. You can be the modern day Paul Revere.

  132. @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Broken clocks being right twice a day, you ask a serious question.

    Many people who are of mixed race, part Jewish, married to same, or who are in some personal deviant situation, are both productive and are politically “correct” in the true sense. Yet, it’s clear to me that white, non Jewish, straight functional people need at least one country, one polity, that is without exception theirs alone. Just as Meir Kahane correctly stated Israel should be for all Jews and only Jews.

    The real “final solution” is not mass murder but something globalists and equalitarianism hate worse: separate countries.

    In Highpoppalorumland, horny young white males can bang all the willing Japanese tourist girls they want, liberal reform Jews can marry in or out, there are mulattos and mestizos and whatnot, everyone gets along, except when they don’t. In the Northwest American (or Aryan, a misnomer since Iranians are not allowed) Republic, any nonwhite, Jew, homosexual, or open advocate of same found there will not be found anywhere ever again. But the sign at the border says so.

    Infidels are not allowed in Mecca. Women are not allowed on Mount Athos. Men were not allowed in the Barbizon Hotel.

    Live with it.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Many people who are of mixed race, part Jewish, married to same, or who are in some personal deviant situation…”

    Are you implying that racing mixing is a “deviant situation”? If yes, you are making a wild generalization.

    “Yet, it’s clear to me that white, non Jewish, straight functional people need at least one country, one polity, that is without exception theirs alone.”

    Clear to you, indeed. You assuredly entitled to your own opinion. Of course, it is up to the citizens of that country to determine who is and who is not part of their nation.

    “Just as Meir Kahane correctly stated Israel should be for all Jews and only Jews.”

    What type of Jews?

    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/types-of-jews

    “The real “final solution” is not mass murder but something globalists and equalitarianism hate worse: separate countries.”

    First, that is an assumption on your part regarding globalists and equalitarians about what they hate. Second, we do have separate countries. As I correctly stated earlier, citizens make their own decisions for their posterity, as to who and who is not part of their nation.

    “In Highpoppalorumland, horny young white males can bang all the willing Japanese tourist girls they want, liberal reform Jews can marry in or out, there are mulattos and mestizos and whatnot, everyone gets along, except when they don’t.

    “In the Northwest American (or Aryan, a misnomer since Iranians are not allowed) Republic, any nonwhite, Jew, homosexual, or open advocate of same found there will not be found anywhere ever again. But the sign at the border says so.

    “Infidels are not allowed in Mecca”

    With Muslims of any race and ethnicity allowed. Of course, your example is a religious in nature, not a nation-state issue.

    “Women are not allowed on Mount Athos”.

    Non-Orthodox males must secure permission. According to Dr. Graham Speake, author of Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise, a 10th Century charter says nothing about women because “everyone knew that women were not allowed in men’s monasteries”. In other words, at that period of time, it was a cultural issue.

    “Men were not allowed in the Barbizon Hotel.”

    That would be a a cultural-social issue reflective of the times.

    “Live with it”.

    You really should be virtue signaling on your soapbox to the general public about how race mixing and “separate nations” ought to be part of our future. You can be the modern day Paul Revere.

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