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From The Atlantic:

The End of the Age of Paternity Secrets

A historian of fatherhood wonders whether the rapid embrace of consumer DNA testing will be seen as a positive development in the future.

ASHLEY FETTERS
1:19 PM ET

When Nara Milanich wrote Paternity: The Elusive Quest for the Father—a history of the scientific, legal, and social conceptions of fatherhood in Western civilization—she wasn’t expecting that her publicity tour would be full of interviewers asking her whether she’s done 23andMe. And, truth be told, she’s not that into the question. …

Paternity traces the long history of how society got here, to a place where biological paternity is a patently knowable fact that’s apparently fair game to ask a stranger about. As Milanich explains in the book, certainty of biological paternity is a relatively new concept in the long arc of human history.

Less so than the reviewer imagines.

Though it’s been known for centuries that every person has one biological father, the notion that this biological father could be determined by science first broke through in the early 20th century. Milanich’s book illustrates in detail how paternity testing became both a useful tool and a powerful weapon, depending on whose hands the technology landed in. …

An amusing restatement of today’s dominant “Who? Whom?” paradigm.

Maternity, Milanich notes early on in the book, tends to be a much less mysterious relationship than paternity, given the visible facts of pregnancy and birth.

True, but Queens of France were required to have VIP witnesses crowd into the royal bedroom to watch the birth of an heir to the throne. This was to prevent rumors that the would-be heir had been stillborn and a baby commandeered from somebody else had been substituted.

Historical novels about royalty are full of all sorts of variations on these themes, such as illegitimate children, impostors, and so forth and son.

Paternity, by contrast, is invisible, and until the 20th century and the advent of the earliest paternity testing, claims to fatherhood (and denials of fatherhood) were only as strong as the implicated parties’ insistence, and circumstantial evidence.

As a result, Milanich explains, for most of modern history, neither the public nor the courts made any distinction between legal and biological fatherhood.

Ehhhh … My impression is that the public gossiped endlessly about such matters, although the law would often try to impose some presumptions to make it less uncertain who would inherit.

When someone had a father, it was because a man had claimed fatherhood status and behaved as a father was expected to by providing care and shelter.

The husband of a wife was generally understood, by society and by most countries’ laws, to be the father of her children and thus responsible for providing for them—a rule that proved frustrating to some men when suspicions about their wife’s marital fidelity arose.

Okay, but other people have an interest in predictable inheritances, such as merchants selling to rich men’s heirs on credit.

The expectation for a husband to also necessarily be a father is why the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century.

Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.

The fascination with knowing paternal identity tends to be a strong and propulsive one. The once-murky nature of paternity provides the central tension of countless great works of fiction, for example. Even contemporary works such as Min Jin Lee’s National Book Award–nominated Pachinko and Elena Ferrante’s bestselling Neapolitan novels, as well as blockbuster musicals and TV shows such as Mamma Mia and Game of Thrones, rely on secret or unknown biological paternity as a plot device.

The potential for disjunction between apparent paternity and biological paternity is a massive theme in ancient literature as well: see Oedipus Rex and The Bible (Moses and Jesus).

The thing to remember about paternity testing, Milanich emphasized, is that it’s available to everyone, for uses both benign and less so. …

Paternity testing was also used to regulate Chinese immigration to America in the early 20th century, when immigrants were allowed by law to help their immediate families gain entry into the country. Before the implementation of blood testing, immigrants needed only to tell authorities that they had children who wanted to join them in the United States. When the country began testing for biological parentage between immigrants and their putative family members, it aimed to curb the practice of “paper kinship,” or the sale of immigration opportunities to people willing to pose as family members of immigrants already in the United States.

The US government using science to crack down on immigration fraud is presumably one of less benign uses.

 
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  1. Anon[178] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sure that people grasp that the math of Darwinian DNA transmission is going to be a very different thing in a population where people have no more than 2 kids. A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @J
    Faster. European average: 1.4 kids.
    , @Desiderius
    The consequences of smaller family sizes (such as dads treating daughters like sons) has been tragically under-analyzed/noticed.
    , @Corvinus
    "A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations."

    Curious as to what sources you are able to procure to back up your claim.
    , @BB753
    Lots of mtDNA lineages will disappear too! All those cat ladies, career women, and assorted feminists who reach menopause childless.
  2. In Maury we trust:

    • Replies: @Franz
    ...In Maury we trust

    ...Not to call a slut a slut?

    Ah the lucky stiffs who lived back when you still could! I mean in public with majority approval -- and good girls had to pretend they were leaving town "on a long visit to grandma's farm..." Nobody knows it's paradise till it's gone.
    , @Dan Hayes
    danand:

    White Trashdom In Action! And to think that these moronic spectacle participants make a world-wide spectacle of themselves without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!
    , @Reg Cæsar

    In Maury we trust:
     
    Maury's father was named Shirley. Dad was from Maine, though. Why is Maury getting vengeance by airing the dirty laundry of hillbillies?

    Probably because while this kind of thing goes on everywhere, very few are willing to expose themselves on TV.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    The trashiest, most pernicious person in that clip and on that show was the host, a creature who profited mightily by broadcasting -- and thereby promoting -- the image of white trash via the megaphone of mass media.
    , @Simon Tugmutton
    In Britain the same ecological telly-niche was filled until recently by The Jeremy Kyle Show, in which a succession of immoral halfwits, egged on by the aforesaid Kyle, aired their filthy laundry in public. To describe him as 'pond-life' is to insult bottom-feeders everywhere. Anyhow, his degrading spectacle was canned after one of the contestants, or victims, scragged himself after being humiliated on national TV.

    Nonetheless, our (((betters))) in telly-land are seeking new vehicles for this worm so that he can continue hosing excrement over what little is left of the noble and beautiful in British society.

    , @Anon
    As an longtime expat I often have Rip van Wrinkle experiences, noticing a massive change in US culture that to residents happened so gradually they didn't notice.

    Maury Povich's face is one of them! He looks so much older than when I last saw him, and so ... Jewish. Ultra Jewish. Isn't he Polish/Catholic? Nope, Wikipedia says Jewish. Age really brings out the Jew in males.
    , @njguy73
    This will do for Maury Povich what the fall of the Berlin Wall did for Yakov Smirnoff.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    This woman just likes to be on TV.
    , @68W58
    You know, it’s tempting to mock that contemptible woman and her slatternly behavior, but she is damning her kids. I seem to recall studies showing that children being raised by a man other than their father being subject to increased abuse, but also another that showed that kids raised without a father in the home at all doing even worse in terms of life outcomes (especially boys). This was something that didn’t need to be studied, it was simply understood and we had a sane social order that minimized such foolishness. But now even suggesting that she is anything other than a helpless victim of “capitalism” or “the patriarchy” or whatever other sinister force the babbling classes dream up is hate speech. How can we ever return to anything approaching sanity again?
  3. Before the implementation of blood testing, immigrants needed only to tell authorities that they had children who wanted to join them in the United States.

    How times change. Now they don’t even have to say “Let me in!”

  4. Historical novels about royalty are full of all sorts of variations on these themes, such as illegitimate children, impostors, and so forth and son.

    Lol.

  5. The French government banned paternity testing a few years ago. It puts the power of who should pay for the child in the woman’s hands. And we all know who these women will pick to pay for the kids they sired with irresponsible bad boys. The phrase “Alpha F*x, Beta Bux” exists for a reason.

    This article is the first in an orchestrated effort to bring France’s ban to the United States. While you sleep, feminists and their media lackeys plot. Stay alert or you’re gonna be signing 18 years monthly checks to support Chad’s kid.

    • Replies: @Walsh2
    I worked my way through law school as a court officer (bailiff). At times I was assigned to domestic court proceedings. The oddest paternity suit I saw, or heard of, went like this: Horny teenagers are double dating, one condom between them. The couple in the front seat uses condom as protection. Couple in the back seat uses the same condom. Unfortunately for the gentlemen in the front seat, his buddy in the back seat turned the condom inside out. Girl in the back seat gets pregnant - kid in the front seat is determined to be the father. And yep, he was on the hook. Families were fairly well off so it pretty much went away.
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    The phrase “Alpha F*x, Beta Bux” exists for a reason.
     
    It exists because idiots like you made it up, not because it's an actual thing. This description pertains to a very small subset of the population, for whom alone does it encapsulate a reality they repeatedly experience. Evidently it is the subset that you belong to, "sushi guy."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXJx8cq6Ae0
    , @Desiderius
    Pozfog rolling in!
  6. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    …In Maury we trust

    …Not to call a slut a slut?

    Ah the lucky stiffs who lived back when you still could! I mean in public with majority approval — and good girls had to pretend they were leaving town “on a long visit to grandma’s farm…” Nobody knows it’s paradise till it’s gone.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Indeed, Maury is a slut, and the guys who slept with her obviously lacked the inner fortitude to curb their own rutting instinct. It's in-born in those fellas not to say no. Shows a tremendous amount of in-born lechery.
  7. True, but Queens of France were required to have VIP witnesses crowd into the royal bedroom to watch the birth of an heir to the throne. This was to prevent rumors that the would-be heir had been stillborn and a baby commandeered from somebody else had been substituted.

    Something like this occurred in March of the Penguins. All the more ominous in Morgan Freeman’s voice.

    Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.

    Not to mention Cinderella. No father was mentioned for her or her stepsisters, leading one to assume Mom was widowed twice.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    I wonder if they had a swarm of VIP witnesses when the royal rugrat was being conceived?
    , @Olorin
    Perhaps my childhood was the less bucolic for it, but under my fathers' tutelage we never assumed that (in the conventional versions) Cinderella's stepmother had been WIDOWED twice.

    The mariticidal alternative possibility renders Cinderella's being chosen by a literal prince all the more noteworthy as a myth.

    Of course at our supper table we talked about things like shipwrecks and lifeboat cannibalism, wolves at Uralic weddings, military history, and industrial accidents. The opposite of the fragile modern school setting most kids grow up in.

    In the Grimm Brothers' version of the story, Aschenputtel, the father is the one who brings home the new wife and her two spawn, and they are vicious to the daughter of his first wife. Birds and trees help the girl, however, and wrap the tale up by eating the evil sisters' eyeballs at Aschenputtel's royal wedding.

    We had the Walter Crane version of the Grimm tales--both the Dover edition (early 1960s) and my grandfather's childhood first edition.

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19068/19068-h/19068-h.htm#illus-135
  8. The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage’s death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen’t cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Bonfire of the Bonobos.
    , @South Texas Guy

    Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones?
     
    I can't answer this definitively, but I can say that the one time I dated a rather plain, overweight woman, I was astounded by the number of times other guys hit on her in my presence. That never happened with the other girls I dated.

    So if I had to guess, I'd say yes. A pretty girl knows she's pretty, and would be more likely to have higher self esteem. Meaning that although she'd know she's desireable to other men, her best long-term bet is with you. The more plain, even ugly woman not having that self confidence, might be more likely to seek solace elsewhere during a rough patch in a relationship (happened to my cousin, boy was she a dog, but he was a callow virgin who knocked up his first lay).

    , @guest
    It wouldn't settle any bets on cheating habits. Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.

    Also, rich girls are better about "planned parenthood," ceteris paribus.
    , @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.
    , @L Woods
    I wouldn’t count on it. Denial of woman’s fundamental turpitude is the white man’s most reliable feature.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    Of all the women I've slept with, a high number, the only ones I knew to be married were black women. I have been with some white girls who were cheating on a boyfriend, however. None of my Asian conquests were married or dating someone else that I know of. There was one very attractive Filipino lady that tried to get with me and she was married.

    All three were one-nighters and I never met their husbands/boyfriends.

    My first wife (black) had a black girlfriend who would cheat on her husband every time he went out of town. She would even bring her boyfriend over to our house and we'd have dinner and drinks. No shame at all.

    I actually have a personal policy to NOT sleep with married women, (I don't care about boyfriends unless it is someone I know.) but when so many black men, knowing full well my wife was married to me (not black), attempted to get her to stray, I got a chip on my shoulder and decided to make an exception with married black women. That is still my policy today.

    So it is my opinion based on my data set that black men do the must cuckolding, and are also the most cuckolded (sometimes by me).
  9. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    danand:

    White Trashdom In Action! And to think that these moronic spectacle participants make a world-wide spectacle of themselves without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!
     
    One gets the impression that those two particular benefits would be especially valued by this woman.
    , @TomSchmidt
    White Trashdom?

    https://www.today.com/popculture/contestant-answers-apprentice-questions-wbna17861801

  10. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    In Maury we trust:

    Maury’s father was named Shirley. Dad was from Maine, though. Why is Maury getting vengeance by airing the dirty laundry of hillbillies?

    Probably because while this kind of thing goes on everywhere, very few are willing to expose themselves on TV.

  11. @Dan Hayes
    danand:

    White Trashdom In Action! And to think that these moronic spectacle participants make a world-wide spectacle of themselves without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!

    without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!

    One gets the impression that those two particular benefits would be especially valued by this woman.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  12. @Anon
    I'm not sure that people grasp that the math of Darwinian DNA transmission is going to be a very different thing in a population where people have no more than 2 kids. A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.

    Faster. European average: 1.4 kids.

  13. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    The trashiest, most pernicious person in that clip and on that show was the host, a creature who profited mightily by broadcasting — and thereby promoting — the image of white trash via the megaphone of mass media.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    White trash? What would Trump say about that?

    https://www.today.com/popculture/contestant-answers-apprentice-questions-wbna17861801
    , @anonymous
    If MoPo is trying to spread anti-white animus, he's doing a poor job. 9 out of 10 of the paternity testing segments feature POCs.
  14. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    Bonfire of the Bonobos.

  15. Mark Twain’s story, A Medieval Romance, is a hilarious take on this theme. It is available here: https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story/a-medieval-romance

  16. @Reg Cæsar

    True, but Queens of France were required to have VIP witnesses crowd into the royal bedroom to watch the birth of an heir to the throne. This was to prevent rumors that the would-be heir had been stillborn and a baby commandeered from somebody else had been substituted.
     
    Something like this occurred in March of the Penguins. All the more ominous in Morgan Freeman's voice.

    Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.
     
    Not to mention Cinderella. No father was mentioned for her or her stepsisters, leading one to assume Mom was widowed twice.

    I wonder if they had a swarm of VIP witnesses when the royal rugrat was being conceived?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I believe reading somewhere that King Louis XIV would inform his attendants the next morning, perhaps so the could keep track.
    , @nokangaroos
    For consummation, yes - to preclude the dame being returned "unused" (known to happen)
  17. So don’t marry Ashley Fetters if I want her to be the mother of MY children?

  18. The fascination with knowing paternal identity tends to be a strong and propulsive one.

    “Fathers can come and go, but mothers are here to stay.”

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Strong parental certainty is a necessary condition for keeping that stone from rolling.

    https://youtu.be/nXiQtD5gcHU

    It is so important that it spurs women to play hard to get to signal chastity.
  19. The concept of “stepchildren” not mainstream until the 20th century? Has Ms. Fetter never read a fairy tale? Cinderella? Snow White? The Juniper Tree? Wicked stepmothers were a recurring trope long before the 20th century.

    And of course male anxiety over being cuckolded is common to basically all civilised peoples. You see it in Shakespeare, but it’s recurrent in Chinese literature too (e.g. the early Qing-era smut novel, The Carnal Prayer Mat. I think there’s also an episode of brutal revenge taken on an adulterous wife and her lover in The Water Margin). I am sure it appears among uncivilised peoples too, only they don’t write novels and plays about it. I suppose fairy stories about changelings speak to that anxiety though.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    In earlier times, women died in childbirth by the cartload. Thus, stepmothers were the rule, not the exception. My favorite instance is found in the diaries of Gregorio Dati, a Florentine merchant of the late Middle Ages, who goes through some 4 wives, the death of each meriting a sentence or two amongst all the wool (and silk) accounting. Out of which unions 26 children survived for a while.
  20. Unfortunately, some of the iSteve incels can only fantasize about being cuckolded. This is part of your problem. If you were to have more realistic ambitions, you might become the one night stand that cucked the other guy. Don’t ever expect to be the main boyfriend not in this lifetime.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Women are Wonderful (tm).
    , @anonymous
    ? Any honest anecdotal assessment of the commenters here would conclude that most are middle aged and married with (usually several) kids.
    , @Whiskey
    That's the problem attitude right there. Typical of women. Oh sure a large male cohort deprived of women with no vested interest in the status quo and willing to follow any dude who promises to overthrow the current order and put them in top.

    Social pressure on these guys only goes so far and more than a few have toyed around with the idea of making them into a force.
  21. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    In Britain the same ecological telly-niche was filled until recently by The Jeremy Kyle Show, in which a succession of immoral halfwits, egged on by the aforesaid Kyle, aired their filthy laundry in public. To describe him as ‘pond-life’ is to insult bottom-feeders everywhere. Anyhow, his degrading spectacle was canned after one of the contestants, or victims, scragged himself after being humiliated on national TV.

    Nonetheless, our (((betters))) in telly-land are seeking new vehicles for this worm so that he can continue hosing excrement over what little is left of the noble and beautiful in British society.

  22. “Maternity…tends to be a much less mysterious relationship than paternity”

    Uh, ya think? A fact so obvious even a journalist can’t belabor it into obscurity.

    There’s a folk-saying: mother’s baby, father’s maybe. That’s all ye need know on the matter.

  23. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones?

    I can’t answer this definitively, but I can say that the one time I dated a rather plain, overweight woman, I was astounded by the number of times other guys hit on her in my presence. That never happened with the other girls I dated.

    So if I had to guess, I’d say yes. A pretty girl knows she’s pretty, and would be more likely to have higher self esteem. Meaning that although she’d know she’s desireable to other men, her best long-term bet is with you. The more plain, even ugly woman not having that self confidence, might be more likely to seek solace elsewhere during a rough patch in a relationship (happened to my cousin, boy was she a dog, but he was a callow virgin who knocked up his first lay).

    • Replies: @miss marple
    There's ugly then there's boobs. I knew I should've had a boob job. Absolutely.
    , @Old Prude
    The two wives who came on to me most obviously and heavily (no pun intended) were modestly attractive, but quite overweight women. If they had been lean, they would have been well above average in looks, and I might have been tempted, but then they probably wouldn't have bothered with scrawny old me.
    , @anon
    Two takes on the question. But I say if you want faithful and ugly, get yourself a pug. Would rather take my chances with a beautiful woman since beauty is not always only skin deep, and sometimes ugly is ugly down to the bone.

    https://youtu.be/Y1ZJiBHh-Yw

    If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife.
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    https://youtu.be/o1w0VCvSfJ0

    When you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch her eyes
    (Watch her eyes, baby watch her eyes)
    When you're in love with a beautiful woman, you look for lies
    (Keep lookin' for lies, baby keep lookin' for eyes)
    Cause everybody tempts her everybody tells her
    She's the most beautiful woman they know
  24. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    It wouldn’t settle any bets on cheating habits. Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.

    Also, rich girls are better about “planned parenthood,” ceteris paribus.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.
     
    As with a good golf swing, timing is everything. Only one member of the couple is privy to the (cuckoo?) clock.
  25. Mama’s baby, Papa’s maybe.

  26. Books like this, tracing the cultural history of X across time, are 100% of the time worthless. Unless they’re about higher culture. That is to say, intellectual history. Scibbles and bibbles. Stuff you can track through writing. Stuff everyone in their secret heart of hearts knows doesn’t actually exist. But not paternity.

    This sort of book smells like an excuse not to be thorough in your research. Because who could possibly study that much material? No one would expect you to. And no one is an expert on paternity throughout the ages, because that would be a stupid thing in which to develop expertise. So you’re free to be a mile wide and an inch deep.

    There will of course be experts in fields you touch upon who would quickly discover you’re full of crap. However, they’re not likely to be called upon to review your work. And if they should catch you out by themselves, no one has to listen. And you can shrug it off as a minor mistake.

    A minor mistake here might suggest mistakes elsewhere. What are the odds, though, that experts in ten fields are gonna get together and realize none of the book has any integrity? If some get together on a blog or whatever, what are the odds they’ll be heard?

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Dear Guest,
    Your thesis -- that this book is worthless -- sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what's bad about it. C'mon, give it a go. Or at least let us know what a bibble is.
  27. @Father O'Hara
    I wonder if they had a swarm of VIP witnesses when the royal rugrat was being conceived?

    I believe reading somewhere that King Louis XIV would inform his attendants the next morning, perhaps so the could keep track.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    Also, at least according to the TV show “Versailles”, the King’s valet apparently slept in the same room as he did, in a small bed in the corner. I’m guessing he probably kept good track of the King’s dalliances.
  28. In Massachusetts Bay Colony people remarried almost immediately when a spouse died. It was a physical necessity.

    • Replies: @william munny
    Right, and nearly everywhere else. I remember reading something written by a genealogist describing how difficult it can be to identify a parent because of how quickly people remarried after their spouse died. And it worked both ways.

    A woman/man dies and the surviving spouse remarries. A child pops up on the next census listed as a six year old. Who is the parent? Sometimes there are other documents or additional clues that can clear it up, and now DNA helps them sort this stuff out for people in the last two centuries or so by looking at who is whose cousin, but it gets murky fast.
    , @Ancient Briton
    Interesting to note in the PBS colonial era soap-opera Jamestown, the widowed young blonde beauty was shamed by her fellows for not remarrying quickly.
  29. Even with Secret Service interference, it seems that the National Enquirer could relatively cheaply and easily, by swiping a restaurant drinking cup, determine the father of Chelsea Clinton (or any other celebrity). And if challenged, the DNA proof would stand up on court. So why is there not, by now, a well established sub-species of “paternity journalism”? Public distaste for the subject? Legal impediments? Some non-obvious reason?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    “So why is there not, by now, a well established sub-species of “paternity journalism”? ”

    because it doesn’t serve the feminist agenda
    , @Grace Jones
    It doesn't work like that. First, there's no national database of DNA that would enable any random male to be picked out as the daddy. They'd have to begin by determining whether Bill is the father; and if he is not, by discovering someone who might have been by conventional means, then testing him. It would be a lot of work for not much reward.
  30. @guest
    Books like this, tracing the cultural history of X across time, are 100% of the time worthless. Unless they're about higher culture. That is to say, intellectual history. Scibbles and bibbles. Stuff you can track through writing. Stuff everyone in their secret heart of hearts knows doesn't actually exist. But not paternity.

    This sort of book smells like an excuse not to be thorough in your research. Because who could possibly study that much material? No one would expect you to. And no one is an expert on paternity throughout the ages, because that would be a stupid thing in which to develop expertise. So you're free to be a mile wide and an inch deep.

    There will of course be experts in fields you touch upon who would quickly discover you're full of crap. However, they're not likely to be called upon to review your work. And if they should catch you out by themselves, no one has to listen. And you can shrug it off as a minor mistake.

    A minor mistake here might suggest mistakes elsewhere. What are the odds, though, that experts in ten fields are gonna get together and realize none of the book has any integrity? If some get together on a blog or whatever, what are the odds they'll be heard?

    Dear Guest,
    Your thesis — that this book is worthless — sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what’s bad about it. C’mon, give it a go. Or at least let us know what a bibble is.

    • Replies: @guest
    I don't have any evidence, nor do I want it.

    "Bibbles" are things that rhyme with "scribbles." In the movie Amadeus, Mozart explains to a theater operator that he has an entire musical finished, but only in his head. This angers the man, who needs to rehearse by such-and-such date. Mozart explains thinking it is the important part, and the rest is just scribbling. Scribbling and bibbling. He rhymes like this because of his childlike sense of humor, or perhaps he's drunk.

    I think that's where my mind got the word bibble from.
    , @AnotherDad

    Your thesis — that this book is worthless — sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what’s bad about it. C’mon, give it a go.
     
    Well from the snippets the article's author offers, i can say that it appears to be cluelessly half-assed. How can anyone who's even clued into Western culture--much less thoroughly researched the topic--come up with this gem:

    The expectation for a husband to also necessarily be a father is why the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century.
     
  31. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    As an longtime expat I often have Rip van Wrinkle experiences, noticing a massive change in US culture that to residents happened so gradually they didn’t notice.

    Maury Povich’s face is one of them! He looks so much older than when I last saw him, and so … Jewish. Ultra Jewish. Isn’t he Polish/Catholic? Nope, Wikipedia says Jewish. Age really brings out the Jew in males.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Bob Dylan looks just like Adam Sandler now.

    There's a new Martin Scorsese documentary about Dylan's 1975 Rolling Thunder tour. It's quite good

    , @peterike

    Age really brings out the Jew in males.
     
    https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE4MDAzNDEwODY0NTM5MTUw/mick-jones-20881933-1-402.jpg

    http://ethnicelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/SPX-022654-Mick-Jones-400x589.jpg
  32. Paternity is often uncertain in the animal kingdom, even with birds which were always presumed to be faithful because they mated for life, before DNA testing showed otherwise.

  33. @South Texas Guy

    Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones?
     
    I can't answer this definitively, but I can say that the one time I dated a rather plain, overweight woman, I was astounded by the number of times other guys hit on her in my presence. That never happened with the other girls I dated.

    So if I had to guess, I'd say yes. A pretty girl knows she's pretty, and would be more likely to have higher self esteem. Meaning that although she'd know she's desireable to other men, her best long-term bet is with you. The more plain, even ugly woman not having that self confidence, might be more likely to seek solace elsewhere during a rough patch in a relationship (happened to my cousin, boy was she a dog, but he was a callow virgin who knocked up his first lay).

    There’s ugly then there’s boobs. I knew I should’ve had a boob job. Absolutely.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    I have had the same experience as South Texas Guy but I put it down to the woman being not my type but a real looker to other guys.

    Men's tastes differ a lot, so a woman who seems plain to one man can be irresistible to another.
    , @Desiderius
    Boob jobs are almost always counterproductive. The packaging always beats the goods.
  34. “the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century”

    “Ashley Fetters” doesn’t seem to know her own culture and history. The wicked stepmother is a staple of folk tales.

    This one is really Grim.

    https://www.grimmstories.com/en/grimm_fairy-tales/the_almond_tree

    “Then she was comforted and happy until the ninth month had passed, and then she bore a child as white as snow and as red as blood, and when she saw it her joy was so great that she died.

    Her husband buried her under the almond tree, and he wept sore; time passed, and he became less sad; and after he had grieved a little more he left off, and then he took another wife.

    His second wife bore him a daughter, and his first wife’s child was a son, as red as blood and as white as snow. Whenever the wife looked at her daughter she felt great love for her, but whenever she looked at the little boy, evil thoughts came into her heart, of how she could get all her husband’s money for her daughter, and how the boy stood in the way; and so she took great hatred to him…”

  35. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Dear Guest,
    Your thesis -- that this book is worthless -- sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what's bad about it. C'mon, give it a go. Or at least let us know what a bibble is.

    I don’t have any evidence, nor do I want it.

    “Bibbles” are things that rhyme with “scribbles.” In the movie Amadeus, Mozart explains to a theater operator that he has an entire musical finished, but only in his head. This angers the man, who needs to rehearse by such-and-such date. Mozart explains thinking it is the important part, and the rest is just scribbling. Scribbling and bibbling. He rhymes like this because of his childlike sense of humor, or perhaps he’s drunk.

    I think that’s where my mind got the word bibble from.

  36. anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:

    @RationalMale

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape. Wasn’t far from there to the idea of cuckservatives messing with national patrimony.
  37. @Father O'Hara
    I wonder if they had a swarm of VIP witnesses when the royal rugrat was being conceived?

    For consummation, yes – to preclude the dame being returned “unused” (known to happen)

  38. @Steve Sailer
    I believe reading somewhere that King Louis XIV would inform his attendants the next morning, perhaps so the could keep track.

    Also, at least according to the TV show “Versailles”, the King’s valet apparently slept in the same room as he did, in a small bed in the corner. I’m guessing he probably kept good track of the King’s dalliances.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Where did the Master of the Bedchamber sleep?
  39. @Foreign Expert
    In Massachusetts Bay Colony people remarried almost immediately when a spouse died. It was a physical necessity.

    Right, and nearly everywhere else. I remember reading something written by a genealogist describing how difficult it can be to identify a parent because of how quickly people remarried after their spouse died. And it worked both ways.

    A woman/man dies and the surviving spouse remarries. A child pops up on the next census listed as a six year old. Who is the parent? Sometimes there are other documents or additional clues that can clear it up, and now DNA helps them sort this stuff out for people in the last two centuries or so by looking at who is whose cousin, but it gets murky fast.

    • Replies: @Flip
    And a lot of times children's surnames were changed to the new stepfather's. (as with Gerald Ford and Bill Clinton)
    , @Thea
    If a man marries a widow that soon then this is a known risk he has agreed to take.

    A bit different than his long time wife secretly play away from home.
  40. @william munny
    Right, and nearly everywhere else. I remember reading something written by a genealogist describing how difficult it can be to identify a parent because of how quickly people remarried after their spouse died. And it worked both ways.

    A woman/man dies and the surviving spouse remarries. A child pops up on the next census listed as a six year old. Who is the parent? Sometimes there are other documents or additional clues that can clear it up, and now DNA helps them sort this stuff out for people in the last two centuries or so by looking at who is whose cousin, but it gets murky fast.

    And a lot of times children’s surnames were changed to the new stepfather’s. (as with Gerald Ford and Bill Clinton)

  41. You know what else is a new and harmful concept? Equality, abortions, the pill, universal suffrage, etc

    • Agree: TWS
  42. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    I’ve run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Any links for those 10% allegations? In most Western populations it's historically been much lower, maybe 1-2% per generation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4611233/

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/the-paternity-myth-the-rarity-of-cuckoldry/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Typical_births

    https://isogg.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Incidence_rates_of_NPEs

    "The actual cumulative incidence of NPEs is in the range was 10-12%, or, in other words, one in every ten men tested showed a non-paternal event in his ancestral male line. This translates to an incidence rate per generation of approximately 0.5%, markedly less that the 1-2% popularly quoted." (for a smallish Isle of Man sample)

    http://manxdna.co.uk/MYDNA5%20doc8.pdf
    , @Wency
    “10% of fathers”

    This is incorrect and highly overstated.

    It’s 10% of fathers who pursued a paternity test.

    It should be clear why this is not a representative sample. The real figure for false paternity is more like 1-3%.
    , @gcochran
    False. We know the real rates of false paternity, from the genetics: much lower, < 2% in every Western country. And it has been that way for hundreds of years, minimum.
    , @Old Prude
    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied "Too much trouble". That's not such a big deal if your life is already filled with lower-class trouble. I found his explanation a concise summary of my own musings and lack of activity on this front. (our wives found his answer hilarious).
    , @AnotherDad

    I’ve run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.
    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births
     
    Your statistics are rubbish. Western civilization was not the ghetto. If you're going to pass on ridiculous numbers, give us a cite.

    I don't have a cite, either. But i've read one or two articles indicating that DNA studies are showing that false paternity was in fact very very low--1-2%.

    Which is exactly what you'd expect from a healthy functioning society--i.e. with the social sanctions necessary to properly operate the monogamy you need to have a civlization--and the West was most certainly a functioning civilization in the before time.

    ~~

    Just from personal experience. Middle class people were ... middle class!

    Even a potential bastard child was (still is) a source of tremendous scandal, gossip amongst middle class people. (Heck, i think it's still a big scandal among lower class people, but sadly a bit more common now.) There's no way in hell it was 1/8 of births. Ridiculous on its face.
  43. @Anon
    As an longtime expat I often have Rip van Wrinkle experiences, noticing a massive change in US culture that to residents happened so gradually they didn't notice.

    Maury Povich's face is one of them! He looks so much older than when I last saw him, and so ... Jewish. Ultra Jewish. Isn't he Polish/Catholic? Nope, Wikipedia says Jewish. Age really brings out the Jew in males.

    Bob Dylan looks just like Adam Sandler now.

    There’s a new Martin Scorsese documentary about Dylan’s 1975 Rolling Thunder tour. It’s quite good

  44. the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century.

    Fetters is an effing fool.

  45. @Days of Broken Arrows
    The French government banned paternity testing a few years ago. It puts the power of who should pay for the child in the woman's hands. And we all know who these women will pick to pay for the kids they sired with irresponsible bad boys. The phrase "Alpha F*x, Beta Bux" exists for a reason.

    This article is the first in an orchestrated effort to bring France's ban to the United States. While you sleep, feminists and their media lackeys plot. Stay alert or you're gonna be signing 18 years monthly checks to support Chad's kid.

    I worked my way through law school as a court officer (bailiff). At times I was assigned to domestic court proceedings. The oddest paternity suit I saw, or heard of, went like this: Horny teenagers are double dating, one condom between them. The couple in the front seat uses condom as protection. Couple in the back seat uses the same condom. Unfortunately for the gentlemen in the front seat, his buddy in the back seat turned the condom inside out. Girl in the back seat gets pregnant – kid in the front seat is determined to be the father. And yep, he was on the hook. Families were fairly well off so it pretty much went away.

  46. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    I wouldn’t count on it. Denial of woman’s fundamental turpitude is the white man’s most reliable feature.

  47. @miss marple
    Unfortunately, some of the iSteve incels can only fantasize about being cuckolded. This is part of your problem. If you were to have more realistic ambitions, you might become the one night stand that cucked the other guy. Don't ever expect to be the main boyfriend not in this lifetime.

    Women are Wonderful ™.

  48. anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @miss marple
    Unfortunately, some of the iSteve incels can only fantasize about being cuckolded. This is part of your problem. If you were to have more realistic ambitions, you might become the one night stand that cucked the other guy. Don't ever expect to be the main boyfriend not in this lifetime.

    ? Any honest anecdotal assessment of the commenters here would conclude that most are middle aged and married with (usually several) kids.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Which we like to believe were conceived of our own emission.
  49. I’d like to think that finally, the boomer cons and associated Good People on the right will be forced to acknowledge the patently obvious: that woman is fundamentally unworthy of the lofty station of moral equality granted her by the modern West. But who am I kidding. Let’s just punch down at some internet beta instead!

    • Replies: @Grace Jones
    It takes two to tango.
    , @Desiderius
    They granted her a seat far above equality - she’s displaced the Heavenly Father from His throne!
  50. @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    Any links for those 10% allegations? In most Western populations it’s historically been much lower, maybe 1-2% per generation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4611233/

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/the-paternity-myth-the-rarity-of-cuckoldry/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Typical_births

    https://isogg.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Incidence_rates_of_NPEs

    “The actual cumulative incidence of NPEs is in the range was 10-12%, or, in other words, one in every ten men tested showed a non-paternal event in his ancestral male line. This translates to an incidence rate per generation of approximately 0.5%, markedly less that the 1-2% popularly quoted.” (for a smallish Isle of Man sample)

    http://manxdna.co.uk/MYDNA5%20doc8.pdf

    • Agree: ic1000
  51. @Anon
    I'm not sure that people grasp that the math of Darwinian DNA transmission is going to be a very different thing in a population where people have no more than 2 kids. A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.

    The consequences of smaller family sizes (such as dads treating daughters like sons) has been tragically under-analyzed/noticed.

    • Replies: @Up2Drew
    Wow. That’s beautifully simple, and I never really thought about it before.

    I have to be careful when I show my contempt for the false and agenda-driven media importance of female sports because if I'm talking to a guy whose little Morgan or Steffie plays soccer they get real edgy real fast.

    And, of course: Small white families.

    When guys only have one or two kids, all girls, they treat their daughters as sons.

    The more I think about this, the more I realize how much this social dynamic is feeding into the current narrative foolishness.
  52. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Also, at least according to the TV show “Versailles”, the King’s valet apparently slept in the same room as he did, in a small bed in the corner. I’m guessing he probably kept good track of the King’s dalliances.

    Where did the Master of the Bedchamber sleep?

  53. @anonymous
    @RationalMale

    Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape. Wasn’t far from there to the idea of cuckservatives messing with national patrimony.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Cuckoldry is, of course, objectively far worse than rape. The reason why it isn’t considered as such is because of who/whom, and because the taboo around rape is due to its violation of that holiest of holies, female power, not some utilitarian happiness calculus.
    , @Corvinus
    "Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape."

    You mean he made a false comparison. Roissy is a degenerate.

  54. @guest
    It wouldn't settle any bets on cheating habits. Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.

    Also, rich girls are better about "planned parenthood," ceteris paribus.

    Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.

    As with a good golf swing, timing is everything. Only one member of the couple is privy to the (cuckoo?) clock.

    • Replies: @Violetta
    As with a good golf swing, timing is everything. Only one member of the couple is privy to the (cuckoo?) clock.

    Not necessarily, it's quite possible for a knowledgeable and observant man to accurately ascertain the state of fertility of a woman.
  55. @william munny
    Right, and nearly everywhere else. I remember reading something written by a genealogist describing how difficult it can be to identify a parent because of how quickly people remarried after their spouse died. And it worked both ways.

    A woman/man dies and the surviving spouse remarries. A child pops up on the next census listed as a six year old. Who is the parent? Sometimes there are other documents or additional clues that can clear it up, and now DNA helps them sort this stuff out for people in the last two centuries or so by looking at who is whose cousin, but it gets murky fast.

    If a man marries a widow that soon then this is a known risk he has agreed to take.

    A bit different than his long time wife secretly play away from home.

  56. @Anon
    As an longtime expat I often have Rip van Wrinkle experiences, noticing a massive change in US culture that to residents happened so gradually they didn't notice.

    Maury Povich's face is one of them! He looks so much older than when I last saw him, and so ... Jewish. Ultra Jewish. Isn't he Polish/Catholic? Nope, Wikipedia says Jewish. Age really brings out the Jew in males.

    Age really brings out the Jew in males.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Just looks like a generic white guy. What am I missing?
  57. @miss marple
    There's ugly then there's boobs. I knew I should've had a boob job. Absolutely.

    I have had the same experience as South Texas Guy but I put it down to the woman being not my type but a real looker to other guys.

    Men’s tastes differ a lot, so a woman who seems plain to one man can be irresistible to another.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If you’re out of her league other guys assume it’s just about sex so why not take their own shot (for the same thing)? The girl will assume the same and often treat you accordingly (worse than the more attractive girl going for a ring).

    This sort of thing drove me nuts before I figured it out.
  58. Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.

    This – even stated strongly – stated in the center of the article and as secondary to the primary thrust, is understated. It deserves its own treatment.

    In times past death in childbirth or due to disease – was common. Men were left as widowers – often. Re-marriage, the imagination allows us to speculate with some confidence, was often substantially unhappy – a socially suitable spouse had to be produced quickly for a man – who was expected to work but who had a home to keep and children to raise.

    In times past – people, men and women, did a lot of dying, a lot more often. This was a force of nature that drove men and women together and created direct and societal pressures for them to cling together.

    That’s gone. We pound sand over everyone’s lack of commitment, but without nature’s Leviathan to scare us together we may just be experiencing a perfectly natural war of all-against-all. Our expectations may be too high.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    See:

    The book of Ruth
    , @guest
    You got it backwards, there. Nature is supposed to be each against all. Leviathan is artificial. If sexual cooperation flies the coop with the absence of struggle for survival, that's a civilizational problem, not a red in tooth and claw problem.

    This isn't some big secret, by the way. Sexual license going along with advanced civilization. But our expectations are not too high. We barely have any at all, relatively speaking. During the previous sexonomic compromise, everyone knew to associate single working women with potential sluttery. Because it's just obvious.

    By the way, I imagine primitive humans had not monogamous couples but harems or somesuch, where male competition would be dealt with by simple violence. Unless he was really, really sneaky. Our monogamy was a much later invention and existed prior to the abundance which made possible economically independent womanhood.

  59. @Days of Broken Arrows
    The French government banned paternity testing a few years ago. It puts the power of who should pay for the child in the woman's hands. And we all know who these women will pick to pay for the kids they sired with irresponsible bad boys. The phrase "Alpha F*x, Beta Bux" exists for a reason.

    This article is the first in an orchestrated effort to bring France's ban to the United States. While you sleep, feminists and their media lackeys plot. Stay alert or you're gonna be signing 18 years monthly checks to support Chad's kid.

    The phrase “Alpha F*x, Beta Bux” exists for a reason.

    It exists because idiots like you made it up, not because it’s an actual thing. This description pertains to a very small subset of the population, for whom alone does it encapsulate a reality they repeatedly experience. Evidently it is the subset that you belong to, “sushi guy.”

  60. Anonymous[136] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Even with Secret Service interference, it seems that the National Enquirer could relatively cheaply and easily, by swiping a restaurant drinking cup, determine the father of Chelsea Clinton (or any other celebrity). And if challenged, the DNA proof would stand up on court. So why is there not, by now, a well established sub-species of "paternity journalism"? Public distaste for the subject? Legal impediments? Some non-obvious reason?

    “So why is there not, by now, a well established sub-species of “paternity journalism”? ”

    because it doesn’t serve the feminist agenda

  61. @Dan Hayes
    danand:

    White Trashdom In Action! And to think that these moronic spectacle participants make a world-wide spectacle of themselves without getting reimbursed except for travel and over-night accommodations!
  62. @Buzz Mohawk
    The trashiest, most pernicious person in that clip and on that show was the host, a creature who profited mightily by broadcasting -- and thereby promoting -- the image of white trash via the megaphone of mass media.
  63. “Though it’s been known for centuries that every person has one biological father, the notion that this biological father could be determined by science first broke through in the early 20th century. ”

    How does one end up writing that sentence? Does her knowledge of history just fade before 1980? Could she not ask a friend or do a Google search? I suppose she is correct that it is some (large) number of centuries but does this imply that, as far as she knows, this was discovered by scientists in 1790?

    Or am I missing something? Did medieval people think they had multiple biological fathers?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    The dame has obvious issues but the fact remains that no people that allowed whoring around has ever BUILT a civilization. For whom, anyway?
    (= the fundamental error of the Greens)

    Assyrian temple prostitution is interesting but like some Polynesian customs probably more akin to Amish Rumspringa.
    - Jewish matrilineality is indicative of primitive origins (or resignation :P )
    Contrary to feminist belief while in Roman law "mater certa", the paterfamilias had to formally recognize the offspring (to weed out the Nubians, I suppose). Much the same in Sparta.
    As usual Germanic Law was the most sensible: Only the woman can commit adultery
    (hi feminists !) because the other results don´t matter. That, combined with primogeniture, kept women on their toes and bastards out of respectability (on the assumption the mother of someone who didn´t know his father was not premier choix either; usage of the term originates with Tacitus who noted the Bastarnae were so depraved BECAUSE they miscegenated).

    Can´t have that in this New Age of equaller-than-thou, of course - one more thing the French Revolution ruined for us; our lot is to watch the edifice crumble elegantly (more or less) :D
  64. @Days of Broken Arrows
    The French government banned paternity testing a few years ago. It puts the power of who should pay for the child in the woman's hands. And we all know who these women will pick to pay for the kids they sired with irresponsible bad boys. The phrase "Alpha F*x, Beta Bux" exists for a reason.

    This article is the first in an orchestrated effort to bring France's ban to the United States. While you sleep, feminists and their media lackeys plot. Stay alert or you're gonna be signing 18 years monthly checks to support Chad's kid.

    Pozfog rolling in!

  65. @Desiderius
    The consequences of smaller family sizes (such as dads treating daughters like sons) has been tragically under-analyzed/noticed.

    Wow. That’s beautifully simple, and I never really thought about it before.

    I have to be careful when I show my contempt for the false and agenda-driven media importance of female sports because if I’m talking to a guy whose little Morgan or Steffie plays soccer they get real edgy real fast.

    And, of course: Small white families.

    When guys only have one or two kids, all girls, they treat their daughters as sons.

    The more I think about this, the more I realize how much this social dynamic is feeding into the current narrative foolishness.

    • Replies: @Cybele
    I take it that you have no female offspring? Or offspring of any gender? Or a long-term relationship with a significant other?
    Sometimes you have to experience life before you can comment on it.
  66. Paternity testing is only a part of it. The practice of medicine will become increasingly dependent upon genetic testing and analysis, and that will include the parents. When that future arrives in the next decade or so, everyone who has modern health care will know the paternity score, and women smart enough to understand will need to change their behavior, because it will automatically come out.

    On the occasions that a married woman has propositioned me, I was alarmed to realize that, in the instances when I had met the husband, he kind of looked like me. Which would mean that the child I had with her would look like him. I was taller, more muscular, more authoritative and somewhat meaner. Women are always looking to trade up. After countless centuries, though, that’s going to be over.

    So we have that going for us.

    • LOL: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Don’t count those chickens yet. See France.
  67. @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    “10% of fathers”

    This is incorrect and highly overstated.

    It’s 10% of fathers who pursued a paternity test.

    It should be clear why this is not a representative sample. The real figure for false paternity is more like 1-3%.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    The problem is there are no DNA mass databases.
    The only useful multigenerational ones are on blood type and require matrix correction but give a reliable 10 to (extreme) 30% not biological paternity, all causes; of course this includes situations like remarriage that cannot be filtered out from the data.
  68. @miss marple
    Unfortunately, some of the iSteve incels can only fantasize about being cuckolded. This is part of your problem. If you were to have more realistic ambitions, you might become the one night stand that cucked the other guy. Don't ever expect to be the main boyfriend not in this lifetime.

    That’s the problem attitude right there. Typical of women. Oh sure a large male cohort deprived of women with no vested interest in the status quo and willing to follow any dude who promises to overthrow the current order and put them in top.

    Social pressure on these guys only goes so far and more than a few have toyed around with the idea of making them into a force.

  69. @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    False. We know the real rates of false paternity, from the genetics: much lower, < 2% in every Western country. And it has been that way for hundreds of years, minimum.

    • Replies: @ladderff
    Depending on how you define false paternity, two percent is not that low.
    , @L Woods
    Good thing nothing’s changed in hundreds of years.
  70. @Desiderius

    Only a small share of couplings result in offspring.
     
    As with a good golf swing, timing is everything. Only one member of the couple is privy to the (cuckoo?) clock.

    As with a good golf swing, timing is everything. Only one member of the couple is privy to the (cuckoo?) clock.

    Not necessarily, it’s quite possible for a knowledgeable and observant man to accurately ascertain the state of fertility of a woman.

  71. @gcochran
    False. We know the real rates of false paternity, from the genetics: much lower, < 2% in every Western country. And it has been that way for hundreds of years, minimum.

    Depending on how you define false paternity, two percent is not that low.

  72. @Desiderius
    Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape. Wasn’t far from there to the idea of cuckservatives messing with national patrimony.

    Cuckoldry is, of course, objectively far worse than rape. The reason why it isn’t considered as such is because of who/whom, and because the taboo around rape is due to its violation of that holiest of holies, female power, not some utilitarian happiness calculus.

    • Replies: @guest
    Rape taboo also comes from the same place as cuckoldry shame. The word used to mean abduction, as in having your woman taken from you. Obviously the meaning has shifted, but taboo is a Time Out of Mind thing, and residual feelings are still present within.
  73. @gcochran
    False. We know the real rates of false paternity, from the genetics: much lower, < 2% in every Western country. And it has been that way for hundreds of years, minimum.

    Good thing nothing’s changed in hundreds of years.

  74. @South Texas Guy

    Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones?
     
    I can't answer this definitively, but I can say that the one time I dated a rather plain, overweight woman, I was astounded by the number of times other guys hit on her in my presence. That never happened with the other girls I dated.

    So if I had to guess, I'd say yes. A pretty girl knows she's pretty, and would be more likely to have higher self esteem. Meaning that although she'd know she's desireable to other men, her best long-term bet is with you. The more plain, even ugly woman not having that self confidence, might be more likely to seek solace elsewhere during a rough patch in a relationship (happened to my cousin, boy was she a dog, but he was a callow virgin who knocked up his first lay).

    The two wives who came on to me most obviously and heavily (no pun intended) were modestly attractive, but quite overweight women. If they had been lean, they would have been well above average in looks, and I might have been tempted, but then they probably wouldn’t have bothered with scrawny old me.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Jack Sprat?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?
  75. @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied “Too much trouble”. That’s not such a big deal if your life is already filled with lower-class trouble. I found his explanation a concise summary of my own musings and lack of activity on this front. (our wives found his answer hilarious).

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Nothing to lose but the old ball and chain.
    , @Jim Don Bob

    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied “Too much trouble”.
     
    Very true. One woman at a time is quite enough trouble, and the financial downsides of straying are enormous.
  76. @Anon
    I'm not sure that people grasp that the math of Darwinian DNA transmission is going to be a very different thing in a population where people have no more than 2 kids. A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.

    “A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.”

    Curious as to what sources you are able to procure to back up your claim.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    This is something which is already observed in many societies with paternal family names.

    Let’s say we have a Mr Smith and an Mr Jones.

    If Mr Smith has sons and Mr Jones has only daughters, there will be no grandchildren with the surname Jones.

    If Mr Smith’s sons have no sons, there will be no great-grandchildren with the surname Smith.

    Over time a few surnames dominate.
    China and Korea have had family names far longer than Europeans.
    In S. Korea over half the population has one of 3 surnames: Kim, Lee and Park.
    In China certain surnames are dominate in certain regions of the country. I have sometimes been able to guess where a Chinese family is from by their surname.

    A famous example is Pitcairn Island. A small community, and they had only a few dozen family names at first. By now, about half the people on the island have the surname Christian— all are patrilineal descendants of First Mate Fletcher Christian.

    An exception is Japan, where a rich man with only daughters will often convince the second son of a rich family to marry his eldest daughter and take on the lady’s family name. That way the old family names survive while they get lost in Korea.

    Having a larger family increases the chance of the family name continuing, but doesn’t guarantee it.

    My late father had 3 kids, but 4 male grandchildren with his family name. Which means if any of the 4 have a male child, the name will continue.

    My father-in-law has 5 kids, but no male grandchildren with the family name. He has 2 grandsons born of daughters. His sons have no male heirs. But, the family name will live on. He was one of 16, yes 16, kids. Some of his brothers’ sons have sons.
  77. @Franz
    ...In Maury we trust

    ...Not to call a slut a slut?

    Ah the lucky stiffs who lived back when you still could! I mean in public with majority approval -- and good girls had to pretend they were leaving town "on a long visit to grandma's farm..." Nobody knows it's paradise till it's gone.

    Indeed, Maury is a slut, and the guys who slept with her obviously lacked the inner fortitude to curb their own rutting instinct. It’s in-born in those fellas not to say no. Shows a tremendous amount of in-born lechery.

  78. anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    The trashiest, most pernicious person in that clip and on that show was the host, a creature who profited mightily by broadcasting -- and thereby promoting -- the image of white trash via the megaphone of mass media.

    If MoPo is trying to spread anti-white animus, he’s doing a poor job. 9 out of 10 of the paternity testing segments feature POCs.

  79. @Desiderius
    Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape. Wasn’t far from there to the idea of cuckservatives messing with national patrimony.

    “Roissy wrote extensively on this topic, aptly comparing cuckoldry to rape.”

    You mean he made a false comparison. Roissy is a degenerate.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  80. @TheJester
    I've run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.

    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    I speculate that the upper-class versus lower-class disparity is due to the relative risks and costs of exposure to the female perpetrators. Women with husbands who have high place and status on the male Dominance Matrix have much more to lose with respect to wealth and social status than lower class women. There is also the expectation that upper-class women live more disciplined lives, which put and/or keep them in the upper-class in the place.

    I’ve run across these statistics across a number of Western countries from a number of sources. Years ago the studies started with blood tests and, naturally, have moved to DNA testing.
    On average, 10% of fathers on birth certificates are not the biological fathers. The breakdown by social class:

    30% for lower class births
    12.6 % for middle-class births
    1% for upper-class births

    Your statistics are rubbish. Western civilization was not the ghetto. If you’re going to pass on ridiculous numbers, give us a cite.

    I don’t have a cite, either. But i’ve read one or two articles indicating that DNA studies are showing that false paternity was in fact very very low–1-2%.

    Which is exactly what you’d expect from a healthy functioning society–i.e. with the social sanctions necessary to properly operate the monogamy you need to have a civlization–and the West was most certainly a functioning civilization in the before time.

    ~~

    Just from personal experience. Middle class people were … middle class!

    Even a potential bastard child was (still is) a source of tremendous scandal, gossip amongst middle class people. (Heck, i think it’s still a big scandal among lower class people, but sadly a bit more common now.) There’s no way in hell it was 1/8 of births. Ridiculous on its face.

  81. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Dear Guest,
    Your thesis -- that this book is worthless -- sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what's bad about it. C'mon, give it a go. Or at least let us know what a bibble is.

    Your thesis — that this book is worthless — sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what’s bad about it. C’mon, give it a go.

    Well from the snippets the article’s author offers, i can say that it appears to be cluelessly half-assed. How can anyone who’s even clued into Western culture–much less thoroughly researched the topic–come up with this gem:

    The expectation for a husband to also necessarily be a father is why the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century.

    • Replies: @guest
    Cinderella apparently wasn't considered mainstream. That's what folktale means, right? Tales most people have never heard?
  82. @Corvinus
    "A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations."

    Curious as to what sources you are able to procure to back up your claim.

    This is something which is already observed in many societies with paternal family names.

    Let’s say we have a Mr Smith and an Mr Jones.

    If Mr Smith has sons and Mr Jones has only daughters, there will be no grandchildren with the surname Jones.

    If Mr Smith’s sons have no sons, there will be no great-grandchildren with the surname Smith.

    Over time a few surnames dominate.
    China and Korea have had family names far longer than Europeans.
    In S. Korea over half the population has one of 3 surnames: Kim, Lee and Park.
    In China certain surnames are dominate in certain regions of the country. I have sometimes been able to guess where a Chinese family is from by their surname.

    A famous example is Pitcairn Island. A small community, and they had only a few dozen family names at first. By now, about half the people on the island have the surname Christian— all are patrilineal descendants of First Mate Fletcher Christian.

    An exception is Japan, where a rich man with only daughters will often convince the second son of a rich family to marry his eldest daughter and take on the lady’s family name. That way the old family names survive while they get lost in Korea.

    Having a larger family increases the chance of the family name continuing, but doesn’t guarantee it.

    My late father had 3 kids, but 4 male grandchildren with his family name. Which means if any of the 4 have a male child, the name will continue.

    My father-in-law has 5 kids, but no male grandchildren with the family name. He has 2 grandsons born of daughters. His sons have no male heirs. But, the family name will live on. He was one of 16, yes 16, kids. Some of his brothers’ sons have sons.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    My boys (soon two) were the second and third of their generation to bear my grandfather’s name in a family nearing one hundred members.

    The first is now in med school. All depends on who has the daughters.
    , @Flip
    I read that Cornelius Vanderbilt commented on his daughters' children that they were very nice but they weren't Vanderbilts.
    , @Corvinus
    You provided a social explanation, which was not required. What was mandated was a scientific explanation to the statement "A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.”
  83. @L Woods
    Cuckoldry is, of course, objectively far worse than rape. The reason why it isn’t considered as such is because of who/whom, and because the taboo around rape is due to its violation of that holiest of holies, female power, not some utilitarian happiness calculus.

    Rape taboo also comes from the same place as cuckoldry shame. The word used to mean abduction, as in having your woman taken from you. Obviously the meaning has shifted, but taboo is a Time Out of Mind thing, and residual feelings are still present within.

  84. @AnotherDad

    Your thesis — that this book is worthless — sounds interesting, and would be more interesting if you bothered to offer the slightest evidence of what’s bad about it. C’mon, give it a go.
     
    Well from the snippets the article's author offers, i can say that it appears to be cluelessly half-assed. How can anyone who's even clued into Western culture--much less thoroughly researched the topic--come up with this gem:

    The expectation for a husband to also necessarily be a father is why the notion of “stepchildren” didn’t really break into mainstream consciousness until the 20th century.
     

    Cinderella apparently wasn’t considered mainstream. That’s what folktale means, right? Tales most people have never heard?

  85. Ashley should write more about her hair.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    "Write" is not the word I would use.
    J.J. Bachofen "Das Mutterrecht" 1865 is one of those books all feminists claim to have read but I have yet to see one who understands it :D
  86. @Foreign Expert
    In Massachusetts Bay Colony people remarried almost immediately when a spouse died. It was a physical necessity.

    Interesting to note in the PBS colonial era soap-opera Jamestown, the widowed young blonde beauty was shamed by her fellows for not remarrying quickly.

  87. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    This will do for Maury Povich what the fall of the Berlin Wall did for Yakov Smirnoff.

  88. @Wency
    “10% of fathers”

    This is incorrect and highly overstated.

    It’s 10% of fathers who pursued a paternity test.

    It should be clear why this is not a representative sample. The real figure for false paternity is more like 1-3%.

    The problem is there are no DNA mass databases.
    The only useful multigenerational ones are on blood type and require matrix correction but give a reliable 10 to (extreme) 30% not biological paternity, all causes; of course this includes situations like remarriage that cannot be filtered out from the data.

  89. @Reg Cæsar

    True, but Queens of France were required to have VIP witnesses crowd into the royal bedroom to watch the birth of an heir to the throne. This was to prevent rumors that the would-be heir had been stillborn and a baby commandeered from somebody else had been substituted.
     
    Something like this occurred in March of the Penguins. All the more ominous in Morgan Freeman's voice.

    Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.
     
    Not to mention Cinderella. No father was mentioned for her or her stepsisters, leading one to assume Mom was widowed twice.

    Perhaps my childhood was the less bucolic for it, but under my fathers’ tutelage we never assumed that (in the conventional versions) Cinderella’s stepmother had been WIDOWED twice.

    The mariticidal alternative possibility renders Cinderella’s being chosen by a literal prince all the more noteworthy as a myth.

    Of course at our supper table we talked about things like shipwrecks and lifeboat cannibalism, wolves at Uralic weddings, military history, and industrial accidents. The opposite of the fragile modern school setting most kids grow up in.

    In the Grimm Brothers’ version of the story, Aschenputtel, the father is the one who brings home the new wife and her two spawn, and they are vicious to the daughter of his first wife. Birds and trees help the girl, however, and wrap the tale up by eating the evil sisters’ eyeballs at Aschenputtel’s royal wedding.

    We had the Walter Crane version of the Grimm tales–both the Dover edition (early 1960s) and my grandfather’s childhood first edition.

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19068/19068-h/19068-h.htm#illus-135

  90. @San Fernando Curt
    Ashley should write more about her hair.

    “Write” is not the word I would use.
    J.J. Bachofen “Das Mutterrecht” 1865 is one of those books all feminists claim to have read but I have yet to see one who understands it 😀

  91. Women simply do not possess the ability to empathize with men. It would never occur to this journal-ess that forcing a man to raise another man’s baby is one of the worst frauds that a human can commit.

    • Agree: L Woods, nokangaroos
    • Replies: @L Woods
    Normal female behavior is effectively tantamount to sociopathy.
  92. @Anon
    I'm not sure that people grasp that the math of Darwinian DNA transmission is going to be a very different thing in a population where people have no more than 2 kids. A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.

    Lots of mtDNA lineages will disappear too! All those cat ladies, career women, and assorted feminists who reach menopause childless.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Unfortunately, they usually manage to find some sucker at the 11th hour.
  93. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @South Texas Guy

    Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones?
     
    I can't answer this definitively, but I can say that the one time I dated a rather plain, overweight woman, I was astounded by the number of times other guys hit on her in my presence. That never happened with the other girls I dated.

    So if I had to guess, I'd say yes. A pretty girl knows she's pretty, and would be more likely to have higher self esteem. Meaning that although she'd know she's desireable to other men, her best long-term bet is with you. The more plain, even ugly woman not having that self confidence, might be more likely to seek solace elsewhere during a rough patch in a relationship (happened to my cousin, boy was she a dog, but he was a callow virgin who knocked up his first lay).

    Two takes on the question. But I say if you want faithful and ugly, get yourself a pug. Would rather take my chances with a beautiful woman since beauty is not always only skin deep, and sometimes ugly is ugly down to the bone.

    If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife.
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    When you’re in love with a beautiful woman, you watch her eyes
    (Watch her eyes, baby watch her eyes)
    When you’re in love with a beautiful woman, you look for lies
    (Keep lookin’ for lies, baby keep lookin’ for eyes)
    Cause everybody tempts her everybody tells her
    She’s the most beautiful woman they know

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Wise words from Even Stevens, the guy who wrote the second song:

    What would be your best piece of advice for a budding country songwriter?


    Get the heck out of town. We don’t need any more songwriters here. Whoops, maybe that was a little too revealing. Seriously, I guess I would suggest that out of quantity comes quality. Just write, write, write. You learn what not to do.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/life/2016/01/20/even-stevens-shares-songwriting-tales-new-memoir/79004266/
     
  94. @al-Gharaniq

    The fascination with knowing paternal identity tends to be a strong and propulsive one.
     
    "Fathers can come and go, but mothers are here to stay."

    Strong parental certainty is a necessary condition for keeping that stone from rolling.

    It is so important that it spurs women to play hard to get to signal chastity.

  95. @Paleo Liberal
    This is something which is already observed in many societies with paternal family names.

    Let’s say we have a Mr Smith and an Mr Jones.

    If Mr Smith has sons and Mr Jones has only daughters, there will be no grandchildren with the surname Jones.

    If Mr Smith’s sons have no sons, there will be no great-grandchildren with the surname Smith.

    Over time a few surnames dominate.
    China and Korea have had family names far longer than Europeans.
    In S. Korea over half the population has one of 3 surnames: Kim, Lee and Park.
    In China certain surnames are dominate in certain regions of the country. I have sometimes been able to guess where a Chinese family is from by their surname.

    A famous example is Pitcairn Island. A small community, and they had only a few dozen family names at first. By now, about half the people on the island have the surname Christian— all are patrilineal descendants of First Mate Fletcher Christian.

    An exception is Japan, where a rich man with only daughters will often convince the second son of a rich family to marry his eldest daughter and take on the lady’s family name. That way the old family names survive while they get lost in Korea.

    Having a larger family increases the chance of the family name continuing, but doesn’t guarantee it.

    My late father had 3 kids, but 4 male grandchildren with his family name. Which means if any of the 4 have a male child, the name will continue.

    My father-in-law has 5 kids, but no male grandchildren with the family name. He has 2 grandsons born of daughters. His sons have no male heirs. But, the family name will live on. He was one of 16, yes 16, kids. Some of his brothers’ sons have sons.

    My boys (soon two) were the second and third of their generation to bear my grandfather’s name in a family nearing one hundred members.

    The first is now in med school. All depends on who has the daughters.

  96. @Old Prude
    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied "Too much trouble". That's not such a big deal if your life is already filled with lower-class trouble. I found his explanation a concise summary of my own musings and lack of activity on this front. (our wives found his answer hilarious).

    Nothing to lose but the old ball and chain.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    And half of everything you own, plus possibly alimony and child support. Ask Tiger if that strange poontang was worth it.
  97. @Anon7
    Paternity testing is only a part of it. The practice of medicine will become increasingly dependent upon genetic testing and analysis, and that will include the parents. When that future arrives in the next decade or so, everyone who has modern health care will know the paternity score, and women smart enough to understand will need to change their behavior, because it will automatically come out.

    On the occasions that a married woman has propositioned me, I was alarmed to realize that, in the instances when I had met the husband, he kind of looked like me. Which would mean that the child I had with her would look like him. I was taller, more muscular, more authoritative and somewhat meaner. Women are always looking to trade up. After countless centuries, though, that's going to be over.

    So we have that going for us.

    Don’t count those chickens yet. See France.

  98. @Simplepseudonymichandle

    Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.
     
    This - even stated strongly - stated in the center of the article and as secondary to the primary thrust, is understated. It deserves its own treatment.

    In times past death in childbirth or due to disease - was common. Men were left as widowers - often. Re-marriage, the imagination allows us to speculate with some confidence, was often substantially unhappy - a socially suitable spouse had to be produced quickly for a man - who was expected to work but who had a home to keep and children to raise.

    In times past - people, men and women, did a lot of dying, a lot more often. This was a force of nature that drove men and women together and created direct and societal pressures for them to cling together.

    That's gone. We pound sand over everyone's lack of commitment, but without nature's Leviathan to scare us together we may just be experiencing a perfectly natural war of all-against-all. Our expectations may be too high.

    See:

    The book of Ruth

  99. “Should people have access to that information?”

    Yes!!!

    Not to sound like Heartiste but this article may as well be titled:

    Cuckolding: Much Ado About Nothing

  100. @Old Prude
    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied "Too much trouble". That's not such a big deal if your life is already filled with lower-class trouble. I found his explanation a concise summary of my own musings and lack of activity on this front. (our wives found his answer hilarious).

    A friend was once asked if he ever cheated on his wife and he replied “Too much trouble”.

    Very true. One woman at a time is quite enough trouble, and the financial downsides of straying are enormous.

  101. @Desiderius
    Nothing to lose but the old ball and chain.

    And half of everything you own, plus possibly alimony and child support. Ask Tiger if that strange poontang was worth it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I was referring to the previous comment’s observance about lower-class men being (much) more likely to step out.
  102. @Paleo Liberal
    This is something which is already observed in many societies with paternal family names.

    Let’s say we have a Mr Smith and an Mr Jones.

    If Mr Smith has sons and Mr Jones has only daughters, there will be no grandchildren with the surname Jones.

    If Mr Smith’s sons have no sons, there will be no great-grandchildren with the surname Smith.

    Over time a few surnames dominate.
    China and Korea have had family names far longer than Europeans.
    In S. Korea over half the population has one of 3 surnames: Kim, Lee and Park.
    In China certain surnames are dominate in certain regions of the country. I have sometimes been able to guess where a Chinese family is from by their surname.

    A famous example is Pitcairn Island. A small community, and they had only a few dozen family names at first. By now, about half the people on the island have the surname Christian— all are patrilineal descendants of First Mate Fletcher Christian.

    An exception is Japan, where a rich man with only daughters will often convince the second son of a rich family to marry his eldest daughter and take on the lady’s family name. That way the old family names survive while they get lost in Korea.

    Having a larger family increases the chance of the family name continuing, but doesn’t guarantee it.

    My late father had 3 kids, but 4 male grandchildren with his family name. Which means if any of the 4 have a male child, the name will continue.

    My father-in-law has 5 kids, but no male grandchildren with the family name. He has 2 grandsons born of daughters. His sons have no male heirs. But, the family name will live on. He was one of 16, yes 16, kids. Some of his brothers’ sons have sons.

    I read that Cornelius Vanderbilt commented on his daughters’ children that they were very nice but they weren’t Vanderbilts.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Anderson Cooper is crushed.
  103. @Paleo Liberal
    This is something which is already observed in many societies with paternal family names.

    Let’s say we have a Mr Smith and an Mr Jones.

    If Mr Smith has sons and Mr Jones has only daughters, there will be no grandchildren with the surname Jones.

    If Mr Smith’s sons have no sons, there will be no great-grandchildren with the surname Smith.

    Over time a few surnames dominate.
    China and Korea have had family names far longer than Europeans.
    In S. Korea over half the population has one of 3 surnames: Kim, Lee and Park.
    In China certain surnames are dominate in certain regions of the country. I have sometimes been able to guess where a Chinese family is from by their surname.

    A famous example is Pitcairn Island. A small community, and they had only a few dozen family names at first. By now, about half the people on the island have the surname Christian— all are patrilineal descendants of First Mate Fletcher Christian.

    An exception is Japan, where a rich man with only daughters will often convince the second son of a rich family to marry his eldest daughter and take on the lady’s family name. That way the old family names survive while they get lost in Korea.

    Having a larger family increases the chance of the family name continuing, but doesn’t guarantee it.

    My late father had 3 kids, but 4 male grandchildren with his family name. Which means if any of the 4 have a male child, the name will continue.

    My father-in-law has 5 kids, but no male grandchildren with the family name. He has 2 grandsons born of daughters. His sons have no male heirs. But, the family name will live on. He was one of 16, yes 16, kids. Some of his brothers’ sons have sons.

    You provided a social explanation, which was not required. What was mandated was a scientific explanation to the statement “A lot of male DNA gene lines will disappear very fast and be totally gone in just 3-4 generations.”

  104. How about any single mother filing for welfare benefits being required to identify the father, and prove it with his DNA test? Then the father can be forced to pay the benefits to the kid, including indentured servitude if necessary.

  105. @Old Prude
    The two wives who came on to me most obviously and heavily (no pun intended) were modestly attractive, but quite overweight women. If they had been lean, they would have been well above average in looks, and I might have been tempted, but then they probably wouldn't have bothered with scrawny old me.

    Jack Sprat?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?
     
    Marriage?

    (It's amazing the number of American women these days whose appearance is a walking adverstisement for their contempt for their husbands.)
    , @Reg Cæsar

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?
     
    Like a one and a zero, neither is a ten, but together they are.


    This book helps explain the phenomenon. Skinny people are usually "takers" who care about their own appearance, not their partners'. The other person's function is to make life easier. And not complain. "Givers" do both.


    https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9780/9708/9780970818102.jpg
  106. Anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike

    Age really brings out the Jew in males.
     
    https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE4MDAzNDEwODY0NTM5MTUw/mick-jones-20881933-1-402.jpg

    http://ethnicelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/SPX-022654-Mick-Jones-400x589.jpg

    Just looks like a generic white guy. What am I missing?

  107. @Simplepseudonymichandle

    Not exactly … countless spouses died and the surviving parent remarried: see Hamlet, for example.
     
    This - even stated strongly - stated in the center of the article and as secondary to the primary thrust, is understated. It deserves its own treatment.

    In times past death in childbirth or due to disease - was common. Men were left as widowers - often. Re-marriage, the imagination allows us to speculate with some confidence, was often substantially unhappy - a socially suitable spouse had to be produced quickly for a man - who was expected to work but who had a home to keep and children to raise.

    In times past - people, men and women, did a lot of dying, a lot more often. This was a force of nature that drove men and women together and created direct and societal pressures for them to cling together.

    That's gone. We pound sand over everyone's lack of commitment, but without nature's Leviathan to scare us together we may just be experiencing a perfectly natural war of all-against-all. Our expectations may be too high.

    You got it backwards, there. Nature is supposed to be each against all. Leviathan is artificial. If sexual cooperation flies the coop with the absence of struggle for survival, that’s a civilizational problem, not a red in tooth and claw problem.

    This isn’t some big secret, by the way. Sexual license going along with advanced civilization. But our expectations are not too high. We barely have any at all, relatively speaking. During the previous sexonomic compromise, everyone knew to associate single working women with potential sluttery. Because it’s just obvious.

    By the way, I imagine primitive humans had not monogamous couples but harems or somesuch, where male competition would be dealt with by simple violence. Unless he was really, really sneaky. Our monogamy was a much later invention and existed prior to the abundance which made possible economically independent womanhood.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Nature is supposed to be each against all.
     
    That’s ridiculous, one need only look at an ant colony.
  108. @anonymous
    ? Any honest anecdotal assessment of the commenters here would conclude that most are middle aged and married with (usually several) kids.

    Which we like to believe were conceived of our own emission.

  109. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Even with Secret Service interference, it seems that the National Enquirer could relatively cheaply and easily, by swiping a restaurant drinking cup, determine the father of Chelsea Clinton (or any other celebrity). And if challenged, the DNA proof would stand up on court. So why is there not, by now, a well established sub-species of "paternity journalism"? Public distaste for the subject? Legal impediments? Some non-obvious reason?

    It doesn’t work like that. First, there’s no national database of DNA that would enable any random male to be picked out as the daddy. They’d have to begin by determining whether Bill is the father; and if he is not, by discovering someone who might have been by conventional means, then testing him. It would be a lot of work for not much reward.

  110. @L Woods
    I’d like to think that finally, the boomer cons and associated Good People on the right will be forced to acknowledge the patently obvious: that woman is fundamentally unworthy of the lofty station of moral equality granted her by the modern West. But who am I kidding. Let’s just punch down at some internet beta instead!

    It takes two to tango.

  111. @ScarletNumber
    Jack Sprat?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?

    Marriage?

    (It’s amazing the number of American women these days whose appearance is a walking adverstisement for their contempt for their husbands.)

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yeah, a lot of early blooming chads (the only males that could be said to have any kind of real stake in the present order) end up bound to these wildebeests. I'd never go so far as to say there's justice in the universe, but sometimes karma shifts the needle a little bit.
    , @Anonymous
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/hollywoodplace/4864155101
  112. @guest
    You got it backwards, there. Nature is supposed to be each against all. Leviathan is artificial. If sexual cooperation flies the coop with the absence of struggle for survival, that's a civilizational problem, not a red in tooth and claw problem.

    This isn't some big secret, by the way. Sexual license going along with advanced civilization. But our expectations are not too high. We barely have any at all, relatively speaking. During the previous sexonomic compromise, everyone knew to associate single working women with potential sluttery. Because it's just obvious.

    By the way, I imagine primitive humans had not monogamous couples but harems or somesuch, where male competition would be dealt with by simple violence. Unless he was really, really sneaky. Our monogamy was a much later invention and existed prior to the abundance which made possible economically independent womanhood.

    Nature is supposed to be each against all.

    That’s ridiculous, one need only look at an ant colony.

    • Replies: @guest
    Well, yes, but we're talking about within Hobbes.
  113. @Desiderius

    Nature is supposed to be each against all.
     
    That’s ridiculous, one need only look at an ant colony.

    Well, yes, but we’re talking about within Hobbes.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Hobbes was (obviously) mistaken.
  114. @miss marple
    There's ugly then there's boobs. I knew I should've had a boob job. Absolutely.

    Boob jobs are almost always counterproductive. The packaging always beats the goods.

  115. @L Woods
    I’d like to think that finally, the boomer cons and associated Good People on the right will be forced to acknowledge the patently obvious: that woman is fundamentally unworthy of the lofty station of moral equality granted her by the modern West. But who am I kidding. Let’s just punch down at some internet beta instead!

    They granted her a seat far above equality – she’s displaced the Heavenly Father from His throne!

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Of course you're right, my mistake: my mind was stuck in the past.
  116. @AKAHorace
    I have had the same experience as South Texas Guy but I put it down to the woman being not my type but a real looker to other guys.

    Men's tastes differ a lot, so a woman who seems plain to one man can be irresistible to another.

    If you’re out of her league other guys assume it’s just about sex so why not take their own shot (for the same thing)? The girl will assume the same and often treat you accordingly (worse than the more attractive girl going for a ring).

    This sort of thing drove me nuts before I figured it out.

  117. @Jim Don Bob
    And half of everything you own, plus possibly alimony and child support. Ask Tiger if that strange poontang was worth it.

    I was referring to the previous comment’s observance about lower-class men being (much) more likely to step out.

  118. @guest
    Well, yes, but we're talking about within Hobbes.

    Hobbes was (obviously) mistaken.

    • Replies: @anon
    Hobbes was a liberal for all usage in Reaction/Monarchist/Whatever circles. Insofar he accepted plenty of the premises of liberalism just as his proposed foil Rousseau did.

    Under liberal narrative, things like family or your clan or your nationality or your race are social "constructs" imposed on you with the "true man" being some composite of homo economicus and the atomized man of modernity. An opposing view would be that the true man is a bit of his tribe and he needs to be separated from it forcefully.
  119. @Gimeiyo
    The concept of "stepchildren" not mainstream until the 20th century? Has Ms. Fetter never read a fairy tale? Cinderella? Snow White? The Juniper Tree? Wicked stepmothers were a recurring trope long before the 20th century.

    And of course male anxiety over being cuckolded is common to basically all civilised peoples. You see it in Shakespeare, but it's recurrent in Chinese literature too (e.g. the early Qing-era smut novel, The Carnal Prayer Mat. I think there's also an episode of brutal revenge taken on an adulterous wife and her lover in The Water Margin). I am sure it appears among uncivilised peoples too, only they don't write novels and plays about it. I suppose fairy stories about changelings speak to that anxiety though.

    In earlier times, women died in childbirth by the cartload. Thus, stepmothers were the rule, not the exception. My favorite instance is found in the diaries of Gregorio Dati, a Florentine merchant of the late Middle Ages, who goes through some 4 wives, the death of each meriting a sentence or two amongst all the wool (and silk) accounting. Out of which unions 26 children survived for a while.

  120. @Desiderius
    They granted her a seat far above equality - she’s displaced the Heavenly Father from His throne!

    Of course you’re right, my mistake: my mind was stuck in the past.

  121. @AnotherDad

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?
     
    Marriage?

    (It's amazing the number of American women these days whose appearance is a walking adverstisement for their contempt for their husbands.)

    Yeah, a lot of early blooming chads (the only males that could be said to have any kind of real stake in the present order) end up bound to these wildebeests. I’d never go so far as to say there’s justice in the universe, but sometimes karma shifts the needle a little bit.

  122. @Saul
    Women simply do not possess the ability to empathize with men. It would never occur to this journal-ess that forcing a man to raise another man's baby is one of the worst frauds that a human can commit.

    Normal female behavior is effectively tantamount to sociopathy.

  123. anon[255] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    Hobbes was (obviously) mistaken.

    Hobbes was a liberal for all usage in Reaction/Monarchist/Whatever circles. Insofar he accepted plenty of the premises of liberalism just as his proposed foil Rousseau did.

    Under liberal narrative, things like family or your clan or your nationality or your race are social “constructs” imposed on you with the “true man” being some composite of homo economicus and the atomized man of modernity. An opposing view would be that the true man is a bit of his tribe and he needs to be separated from it forcefully.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The ideal of the atomized man proves more false and pathetic by the day.

    Time to get real.

  124. @theMann
    The absolute determination of patrimony is not gong to reflect well upon women at all, potentially the last note of Marriage's death knell.

    This will result in a database of interesting, if unpleasant, knowledge. Do poor women cheat more than rich women? Do ugly girls cheat more than beautiful ones? And my personal favorite, do some Races just plain cheat more than others? And questions we cannot accurately determine, do smart women cheat more than stupid ones? (Because they are better at cheating when already pregnant.) What if all women cheat and some were formerly better liars about it? What if most women doen't cheat, let us hope for the best here?

    Oh Muse, do the Gods now withdraw all Love,
    When Truth now Chaos becomes?

    Of all the women I’ve slept with, a high number, the only ones I knew to be married were black women. I have been with some white girls who were cheating on a boyfriend, however. None of my Asian conquests were married or dating someone else that I know of. There was one very attractive Filipino lady that tried to get with me and she was married.

    All three were one-nighters and I never met their husbands/boyfriends.

    My first wife (black) had a black girlfriend who would cheat on her husband every time he went out of town. She would even bring her boyfriend over to our house and we’d have dinner and drinks. No shame at all.

    I actually have a personal policy to NOT sleep with married women, (I don’t care about boyfriends unless it is someone I know.) but when so many black men, knowing full well my wife was married to me (not black), attempted to get her to stray, I got a chip on my shoulder and decided to make an exception with married black women. That is still my policy today.

    So it is my opinion based on my data set that black men do the must cuckolding, and are also the most cuckolded (sometimes by me).

    • Replies: @BB753
    Hence the old joke: What's the most confusing day in the 'hood? Father's day.
  125. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    This woman just likes to be on TV.

  126. @danand
    In Maury we trust:

    https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

    You know, it’s tempting to mock that contemptible woman and her slatternly behavior, but she is damning her kids. I seem to recall studies showing that children being raised by a man other than their father being subject to increased abuse, but also another that showed that kids raised without a father in the home at all doing even worse in terms of life outcomes (especially boys). This was something that didn’t need to be studied, it was simply understood and we had a sane social order that minimized such foolishness. But now even suggesting that she is anything other than a helpless victim of “capitalism” or “the patriarchy” or whatever other sinister force the babbling classes dream up is hate speech. How can we ever return to anything approaching sanity again?

  127. @anon
    Hobbes was a liberal for all usage in Reaction/Monarchist/Whatever circles. Insofar he accepted plenty of the premises of liberalism just as his proposed foil Rousseau did.

    Under liberal narrative, things like family or your clan or your nationality or your race are social "constructs" imposed on you with the "true man" being some composite of homo economicus and the atomized man of modernity. An opposing view would be that the true man is a bit of his tribe and he needs to be separated from it forcefully.

    The ideal of the atomized man proves more false and pathetic by the day.

    Time to get real.

  128. @Erik L
    "Though it’s been known for centuries that every person has one biological father, the notion that this biological father could be determined by science first broke through in the early 20th century. "

    How does one end up writing that sentence? Does her knowledge of history just fade before 1980? Could she not ask a friend or do a Google search? I suppose she is correct that it is some (large) number of centuries but does this imply that, as far as she knows, this was discovered by scientists in 1790?

    Or am I missing something? Did medieval people think they had multiple biological fathers?

    The dame has obvious issues but the fact remains that no people that allowed whoring around has ever BUILT a civilization. For whom, anyway?
    (= the fundamental error of the Greens)

    Assyrian temple prostitution is interesting but like some Polynesian customs probably more akin to Amish Rumspringa.
    – Jewish matrilineality is indicative of primitive origins (or resignation 😛 )
    Contrary to feminist belief while in Roman law “mater certa”, the paterfamilias had to formally recognize the offspring (to weed out the Nubians, I suppose). Much the same in Sparta.
    As usual Germanic Law was the most sensible: Only the woman can commit adultery
    (hi feminists !) because the other results don´t matter. That, combined with primogeniture, kept women on their toes and bastards out of respectability (on the assumption the mother of someone who didn´t know his father was not premier choix either; usage of the term originates with Tacitus who noted the Bastarnae were so depraved BECAUSE they miscegenated).

    Can´t have that in this New Age of equaller-than-thou, of course – one more thing the French Revolution ruined for us; our lot is to watch the edifice crumble elegantly (more or less) 😀

    • Replies: @Cybele
    That's cultural evolution in action, my friend. Or would you rather go way back in time to the time of the Great Mother and the dying son where men were "most barbarously" sacrificed to bring forth the next year's harvest (ala John Barleycorn/the Wicker Man/Egyptian Hebset)? I for one am glad that I live in times of tolerance and rationality.

    Apparently, the recent discovery of Richard III's bones in a parking lot resulted in the discovery that the current occupants of Windsor Castle have no "legitimate" title! It seems that there was not one but two paternity "breaks" in the lineage. So much for the king's minion's espionage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/25/richard-iii-dna-tests-uncover-evidence-of-further-royal-scandal

  129. @Flip
    I read that Cornelius Vanderbilt commented on his daughters' children that they were very nice but they weren't Vanderbilts.

    Anderson Cooper is crushed.

  130. Anonymous[533] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?
     
    Marriage?

    (It's amazing the number of American women these days whose appearance is a walking adverstisement for their contempt for their husbands.)

    It's The Same Old Moon

  131. @Don't Look at Me
    Of all the women I've slept with, a high number, the only ones I knew to be married were black women. I have been with some white girls who were cheating on a boyfriend, however. None of my Asian conquests were married or dating someone else that I know of. There was one very attractive Filipino lady that tried to get with me and she was married.

    All three were one-nighters and I never met their husbands/boyfriends.

    My first wife (black) had a black girlfriend who would cheat on her husband every time he went out of town. She would even bring her boyfriend over to our house and we'd have dinner and drinks. No shame at all.

    I actually have a personal policy to NOT sleep with married women, (I don't care about boyfriends unless it is someone I know.) but when so many black men, knowing full well my wife was married to me (not black), attempted to get her to stray, I got a chip on my shoulder and decided to make an exception with married black women. That is still my policy today.

    So it is my opinion based on my data set that black men do the must cuckolding, and are also the most cuckolded (sometimes by me).

    Hence the old joke: What’s the most confusing day in the ‘hood? Father’s day.

  132. @BB753
    Lots of mtDNA lineages will disappear too! All those cat ladies, career women, and assorted feminists who reach menopause childless.

    Unfortunately, they usually manage to find some sucker at the 11th hour.

    • LOL: BB753
  133. @anon
    Two takes on the question. But I say if you want faithful and ugly, get yourself a pug. Would rather take my chances with a beautiful woman since beauty is not always only skin deep, and sometimes ugly is ugly down to the bone.

    https://youtu.be/Y1ZJiBHh-Yw

    If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife.
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    https://youtu.be/o1w0VCvSfJ0

    When you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch her eyes
    (Watch her eyes, baby watch her eyes)
    When you're in love with a beautiful woman, you look for lies
    (Keep lookin' for lies, baby keep lookin' for eyes)
    Cause everybody tempts her everybody tells her
    She's the most beautiful woman they know

    Wise words from Even Stevens, the guy who wrote the second song:

    What would be your best piece of advice for a budding country songwriter?

    Get the heck out of town. We don’t need any more songwriters here. Whoops, maybe that was a little too revealing. Seriously, I guess I would suggest that out of quantity comes quality. Just write, write, write. You learn what not to do.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/life/2016/01/20/even-stevens-shares-songwriting-tales-new-memoir/79004266/

  134. @ScarletNumber
    Jack Sprat?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?

    As an aside, I always find it peculiar when I see an in-shape guy with a fat woman. I always wonder how that happens. Does he have low self esteem? Does he not want to put in the work in keeping a woman in his league so he settles for someone lower? What gives?

    Like a one and a zero, neither is a ten, but together they are.

    This book helps explain the phenomenon. Skinny people are usually “takers” who care about their own appearance, not their partners’. The other person’s function is to make life easier. And not complain. “Givers” do both.

  135. @Up2Drew
    Wow. That’s beautifully simple, and I never really thought about it before.

    I have to be careful when I show my contempt for the false and agenda-driven media importance of female sports because if I'm talking to a guy whose little Morgan or Steffie plays soccer they get real edgy real fast.

    And, of course: Small white families.

    When guys only have one or two kids, all girls, they treat their daughters as sons.

    The more I think about this, the more I realize how much this social dynamic is feeding into the current narrative foolishness.

    I take it that you have no female offspring? Or offspring of any gender? Or a long-term relationship with a significant other?
    Sometimes you have to experience life before you can comment on it.

  136. @nokangaroos
    The dame has obvious issues but the fact remains that no people that allowed whoring around has ever BUILT a civilization. For whom, anyway?
    (= the fundamental error of the Greens)

    Assyrian temple prostitution is interesting but like some Polynesian customs probably more akin to Amish Rumspringa.
    - Jewish matrilineality is indicative of primitive origins (or resignation :P )
    Contrary to feminist belief while in Roman law "mater certa", the paterfamilias had to formally recognize the offspring (to weed out the Nubians, I suppose). Much the same in Sparta.
    As usual Germanic Law was the most sensible: Only the woman can commit adultery
    (hi feminists !) because the other results don´t matter. That, combined with primogeniture, kept women on their toes and bastards out of respectability (on the assumption the mother of someone who didn´t know his father was not premier choix either; usage of the term originates with Tacitus who noted the Bastarnae were so depraved BECAUSE they miscegenated).

    Can´t have that in this New Age of equaller-than-thou, of course - one more thing the French Revolution ruined for us; our lot is to watch the edifice crumble elegantly (more or less) :D

    That’s cultural evolution in action, my friend. Or would you rather go way back in time to the time of the Great Mother and the dying son where men were “most barbarously” sacrificed to bring forth the next year’s harvest (ala John Barleycorn/the Wicker Man/Egyptian Hebset)? I for one am glad that I live in times of tolerance and rationality.

    Apparently, the recent discovery of Richard III’s bones in a parking lot resulted in the discovery that the current occupants of Windsor Castle have no “legitimate” title! It seems that there was not one but two paternity “breaks” in the lineage. So much for the king’s minion’s espionage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/25/richard-iii-dna-tests-uncover-evidence-of-further-royal-scandal

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PastClassics
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?