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The Amish Have Grown 110% Since 2000
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From Amish Population Profile, 2022:

Growth Trends, 2000-2022. The North American Amish population grew by an estimated 195,710 since 2000, increasing from approximately 177,910 in 2000 to 373,620 in 2022, an increase of 110 percent. The Amish population doubles about every 20 years. Since 2000, the number of districts has grown from 1,335 to 2,827, an increase of 1,492 districts. The same period saw a net gain of 303 settlements, including settlements in six new states (Colorado, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming) and three new provinces (Manitoba, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island).

Reasons for Population Growth. The primary forces driving the growth are sizable nuclear families (five or more children on average) and an average retention rate (Amish children who join the church as young adults) of 85 percent or more. A few outsiders have joined the Amish, but the growth is almost entirely from within the Amish community.

Reasons for Creating New Settlements. The Amish establish new settlements for a variety of reasons, including a desire for: (1) fertile farmland at reasonable prices, (2) nonfarm work in specialized occupations, (3) rural isolation that supports their traditional, family-based lifestyle, (4) social and physical environments (climate, governments, services, economy) conducive to their way of life, (5) proximity to family or other similar Amish church groups, and (6) a way to resolve church or leadership conflicts.

Thus, Amish population growth in the past has been extraordinary. From The Daily Caller:

If you do a simplistic projection over the next 100 years assuming that the Amish will continue to double in numbers every 20 years, you get this:

The Amish will pass 10 million in the early 22nd century.

If you run the projection out for 300 years, you get:

The Amish will pass 10 billion in the early 24th Century.

That’s probably not going to happen.

But who knows about the 10 million Amish projection?

I wrote about the Amish in 2013, including the Cochran-Harpending theory that one reason their retention rate has gone up over the generations is because they have been boiling off Amish-born individuals with genomes that don’t put up well with the Amish lifestyle, that the Amish have been breeding themselves for their favorite trait: “plainness.”

 
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  1. You know they shun fancy things–like electricity.

    The Amish shall inherit the earth.

    And Weird Al is a genius.

  2. This is an unmitigated catastrophe. Soon we will all be choking on horse apples in the streets as they do in Geauga County, Ohio, with its 20% population. The Amish are a menace that must be checked. Anyone who has tried to drive in areas where they have invaded (NE Ohio, southern Ohio, central Michigan) knows of what I speak. They drive at night. Isnt that supposed to be ungodly? They will cut you off and pull out in front of you on roads with 50 mph speed limits.
    Isnt that forbidden somewhere in Proverbs? Remember, people, they are not supposed to fight back. Act accordingly.

    • LOL: duncsbaby
    • Replies: @epebble
    , @fnn
    , @S. Anonyia
  3. The Amish are good, respectable people. I’m glad to learn that they are doing well. Good luck to them.

    • Agree: Mr. Grey
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  4. JimDandy says:

    I was in a hardcore band named 10 Billion Amish People. We really, really sucked.

    • LOL: Matthew Kelly
  5. Trelane says:

    I’m 18, I want a grown-up income and a plain 16-year-old wife. Where do I sign up?

  6. Farenheit says:

    I’ve worked in Silicon Valley now for thirty years, and have a whole bunch of mildly humorous anecdotes pertaining to the malign influence of technology that end with the punchline, “don’t worry, in 200 years the only people left will be the Amish and the Mormons.

    Glad to see the Amish are keeping up their end of the joke

  7. Alden says:

    Reason the Amish are increasing so much is that the Amish men are familiar with the basic facts of human reproduction. Unlike the Men of UNZ who believe women conceive babies without any male input.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anon
    , @AnotherDad
  8. Pixo says:

    Two examples of populations growing fairly quickly from ~10k to ~10m via natural increase: French Canadians and Ashkenazi Jews.

    Razib reviews a related article:

    https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/the-genomic-heritage-of-french-canadians

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  9. fnn says:
    @Magnus Keith Doodlesong

    So much for “rural isolation.” And I’ve read that most Amish work in non-farm occupations.

    • Replies: @BB753
  10. BobX says:

    Don’t be pickin’ fights with no Mennonites
    Don’t be raisin’ cane while they’re
    Plantin’ grain and workin’ through the night
    Gonna let you know if you ain’t actin’ right

    They make nice furniture, shed, cheese, and jam.

    Northern Michigan ain’t Saskatchewan in 1881, but my brother was a real estate agent that sold several farms to them here in northern Michigan. They showed up for his funeral with their young families in tow. They seemed like the kind of neighbors a person could hope for.

  11. I actually wouldn’t be the guy to test the purported Amish commitment to non-violence.

  12. To riff on Einstein, I can’t tell you who will fight World War 3, but I can tell you who will fight World War 4: the Amish, Hasidim, and Hutterites.

  13. @Matthew Kelly

    Actually they don’t. They will have electricity in their work shops.

    • Replies: @Gary Sudder
  14. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Reason the Amish are increasing so much is that the Amish men are familiar with the basic facts of human reproduction. Unlike the Men of UNZ who believe women conceive babies without any male input.

    It’s hilarious that you use the Amish of all people to get a dig in at the Men of UNZ. The Amish represent everything you routinely rail against and ascribe to the Men of UNZ.

    The Amish are extremely patriarchal and sexist by contemporary standards, and that is the source of their high fertility rates. By restricting women’s choices and options for social and economic roles and material comforts, and by raising the status of men in general, Amish society greatly lowers the cost of reproduction.

    https://serendipstudio.org/exchange/hope/roles-amish-women

    In Amish society there is a clear patriarchy in which gender roles are strictly defined. Amish Women are expected to marry, have children and submit to their husband’s will. There is no divorce. It is the responsibility of the wife to care for the children and the household. Her tasks include cooking, cleaning, sewing, gardening and maintaining the general welfare of the family. Only 3% of Amish women have a job outside of the household (Kraybill, 72). The husband is considered the head of the family and has the final say in spiritual and societal matters. At family meals, the husband sits at the head of the table. Despite the elevated position of the husband, major decisions are usually made jointly by husband and wife. Women have a vote in church meetings, but cannot hold positions of authority within the church.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    , @Dutch Boy
    , @Alden
  15. The Amish will pass 10 billion in the early 24th Century.

    That’s probably not going to happen.

    For anyone interested in this subject, Professor Eric Kaufmann’s book Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? is a must-read. (His answer is: Yes.)

    A reviewer at the Effective Altruism forum makes the interesting point that the Amish may run out of farmland:

    While they have featured consistent growth over the past century, there is some reason to believe that they will not be able to keep up this growth going forward. Historically, the Amish have been farmers, but farmland that they can expand into is getting harder for them to find and afford. While data is sparse enough that it is not possible to establish a causal relationship, rather than a correlation, the subgroups of Amish that have the lowest rates of farming also have the lowest fertility rates and rates of retention. [56]

    https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/mDkfEjt64DQEtyAmr/retrospective-on-shall-the-religious-inherit-the-earth

    My opinion is that predictions are hard, especially about the future. Catholic fertility was once considered unstoppable, but now Ireland, Poland, Italy, and Spain have below replacement TFRs. (Indeed, Protestant Europe may now actually have a slight edge over Catholic Europe in fertility.) So too was Palestinian fertility, but the Israelis have fought hard to win the war of the cradle.

    Kaufmann’s thesis is that there are two competing long term trends regarding demography and religion:

    1) A demographic transition following industrialization, in which first death rates, then birth rates, fall, with populations rising and stabilizing accordingly. Prosperity is accompanied by decreasing religiosity—the “secularization” thesis ably propounded by Profs. Inglehart and Norris. Secularization was always on strong ground even when the US seemed to be an outlier. Now that the most recent generation makes it clear the US was simply lagging behind the Anglosphere/Continental Europe/Japan on the same trajectory, it’s basically undeniable.

    2) As the populations of industrialized nations plateau or shrink, with the wealthiest/most educated/most secular segments shrinking fastest, the religious will rebound as a share of the population thanks to their high fertility. This will lead to a second demographic transition.

    Kaufmann makes an important distinction between two kinds of religious denominations: Ones attempting to grow through conversion (exogenously) and ones attempting to grow through high birthrates (endogenously). Though some of the former have been successful recently (evangelical Protestants at proselytizing to Catholics and animists in Latin America/Africa), they’re vulnerable to the global trend towards secularization, with low retention rates. Furthermore, they “poach” believers from other religions, as opposed to converting the irreligious.

    By contrast, the successful endogenous growth sects are extreme in their insularity, with emphatic social conservatism, rejection of much modern technology, and avoidance of friendly intercourse with the outside world. This makes it much harder to leave them. Not going to your Lutheran church every other Sunday is much less of a change than having to completely abandon your hometown, family, childhood friends, etc.

    Religions that are less radical than these, even their diet coke versions like the Mormons, are suffering from declining fertility and generational retention.

    • Thanks: ic1000
    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    , @Chrisnonymous
  16. Trelane says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    For those about to rock, we salute you (AC/DC) [electricity]

  17. Anon[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Amish are very famous for their woman beating and child sexual abuse. They also hire illegal alien women to sew their “handmade” blankets with sewing machines as Amish women are apparently useless. I bet most of the “Amish” babies are born to Guatemalan and Hmong women

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  18. The Amish will pass 10 billion in the early 24th Century.

    Nope, by then the AI drone ships will have mopped by the last remaining humans.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  19. It won’t be the Amish that inherit the earth – not unless they grow a pair. I realize everyone hear finds tribalism icky – especially our host – but that’s what’s coming. And tribalism requires a willingness to fight for your tribe. Not sure the Amish have it in them.

    Granted, they’re a lot better than your average white, but that’s not saying much.

    Steve won’t say which side he’s on, much less fight for it.

  20. @Magnus Keith Doodlesong

    They also have high rates of genetic diseases due to the fact that they are about as inbred as the Hapsburgs by this point. As a teenager I visited an Amish community in Tennessee with my grandparents and even though there were about 100 farms I only saw 4 different last names on the mailboxes.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  21. In the year 2100 all the whites in America will be either Amish or Jewish. During the time the Amish have doubled in population the white Christian population has actually declined in America. we had 155 million white Christians back in 1999, today just 142 million white Christians live in the United States.

    • Agree: Thoughts
  22. @Pixo

    Founding population of Amish was only 500, though. Significantly smaller than the 8,000-10,000 original French Canadians. Also less “new blood” introduced into the Amish community over the centuries for obvious reasons.

  23. JimDandy says:
    @Trelane

    Can you just show up and join the Amish? I want answers.

    • Replies: @JustTheFacts
  24. wow, there’s almost 1% as many of them as there are third world hordes ready to overwhelm everything. those ‘breeders will save europeans’ scenarios are really gonna pan out.

    America 2100: mormons and amish people are a tiny wave in an ocean of third world faces.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  25. “Cochran-Harpending theory that one reason their retention rate has gone up over the generations is because they have been boiling off Amish-born individuals with genomes that don’t put up well with the Amish lifestyle, that the Amish have been breeding themselves for their favorite trait: “plainness.”

    this is also why jewish people instinctively, reflexively dislike european people so much. jewish groups boil off tribe members who don’t hate europeans, as those people intermarry and dissolve away, the primary fear of jewish leaders. over 2000 years of this, these leaves a core people who dislike europeans strongly.

    that’s why there’s no self awareness or circumspection about how hard and how far they take their political activism against europeans. jewish people today have literally evolved to attack europeans.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  26. @AnotherDad

    The Amish will pass 10 billion in the early 24th Century.

    That’s probably not going to happen.

    Even if it wasn’t for the AI drone ships, this is great example of what I was just writing an hour back on the conspiracy thread:

    There is not fundamentally any “fertility crisis”. Fertility will rebound as “breeder”–i.e. family formation–traits come to fore. There is a eugenic issue. But that’s pretty much it on the fertility side.

    The crisis is the invasion. Absent the invasion of the West, you’d have recovered–and generally pretty high-quality–populations across Europe by 2050, 60, 70 or so. After the adaptation to the birth control shock. The US had more native issues with “diversity”, but it would have done fine too.

    The Amish are a very discrete group of breeders so you can point at them and make cool projections. But they are actually a far smaller than a bunch of other, but less obviously discrete, groups–“Quiverfull Christian” types, trad Catholics, the more traditional Mormons. Even Orthodox Jews–admittedly a wide spectrum of belief and fertility–are in the same demographic ballpark (in the US) as Amish. The next generation of young whites in the US is going to be far more “breedery” than the current one.

    In the end, the “winner” will have three key characteristics:
    — willingness to breed and do so with high-investment parenting
    — willingness to impose eugenic fertility and keep up the capability (IQ, conscientiousness and engagement with technology) to support their population and to defend their patch of turf
    — the *will* to do so from spending money to keep technologically abreast with your defense and most importantly the will to keep invaders out

    This is “just math”. So we have a whole propaganda industry devoted to denying it. “Why?” is a good question.

    • Replies: @Anon
  27. Goatweed says:

    Since Steve brought the Amish up years ago, I’ve seen a future where my descendants protect a billion Amish Americans in return for their electoral support.

    Not sure if it works out but we share many enemies.

  28. They are the shrewdest businessmen. If there is a farmers market and some Amish show up, the farmers market will be all Amish in a matter of months. They will have pushed all others out. They are also involved in industries like building sheds and industrial type buildings, roofing, home remodeling and other like industries. They undercut the others in their area and the unions hate them.

    • Replies: @ic1000
  29. Anon7 says:

    Do the positive effects of Amish lifestyle outweigh their founder effect problems?

    Isn’t it still true that there is a higher incidences of particular genetic disorders, especially among the Old Order Amish. These disorders include dwarfism, Angelman syndrome, and various metabolic disorders, such as Tay-Sachs disease.

    Do the Amish still use five times the special needs requirements of all others in Ohio?

  30. Jay Fink says:
    @Trelane

    I wouldn’t want a plain wife of any age. Amish women turn me off. They have no sex appeal.

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
    , @AnotherDad
  31. George says:

    “boiling off Amish-born individuals with genomes”

    Alternative explanation, they don’t attend public school, they avoid taxation.

    • Replies: @ic1000
  32. The Amish establish new settlements for a variety of reasons, including a desire for…

    (7) genetic diversity, i.e., not having children born with fused fingers or dwarfism.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @kaganovitch
  33. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    There is not fundamentally any “fertility crisis”. Fertility will rebound as “breeder”–i.e. family formation–traits come to fore. There is a eugenic issue. But that’s pretty much it on the fertility side.

    Hah, you must have gone to a public school.

    The fertility rate has continually declined for 50 years. Your mistaken assumption, that “breeders” will appear after the non-breeders die off, is a mathematical impossibility and a violation of one of the fundamental assumptions of statistics, the regression toward the mean.

    We can safely assume that, for the next 50 years, fertility trends in the developed will remain unchanged. And that’s ASSUMING the fertility decline will not accelerate. All indicators suggest that it is. Anti-natality ideology is rising among the youth while religious affiliations like the ones you describe continue to die out among young people.

    The crisis is the invasion. Absent the invasion of the West, you’d have recovered–and generally pretty high-quality–populations across Europe by 2050, 60, 70 or so. After the adaptation to the birth control shock. The US had more native issues with “diversity”, but it would have done fine too.

    No, there is no “crisis of invasion”. The crisis is low fertility. The number of immigrants who came here was small. They would have been swamped out if the native fertility rate had remained at 3.5 where it was in the 1960s, and the USA would still be around 80% non-Hispanic white. The US would be an absolute disaster nowadays, comparable to Ukraine or Russia, if it did not have immigrants.

    • Agree: epebble
    • Disagree: Hangnail Hans
  34. Anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:

    An interesting pondering of the future is to imagine a USA where the Amish comprise the majority of the white population, and their polar opposites in character, behavior and demeanor – blacks, mestizos etc – form the other majority bloc of the population.
    Then the question arises, ‘would the Amish abandon their abjuration of violence in order to preserve and defend themselves’?

  35. So now in addition to The World’s Most Important Graph, we have The World’s Plainest Graph.

    • Thanks: The Anti-Gnostic
  36. Truth says:

    Too bad the Unzistas, are soft, lazy, and love blacks.

  37. anon[481] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    People in this thread are talking about the inbred-ness as if they’re lepers– like the inbred DNA is damaged goods.

    All it takes is one outbreeding and that inbred-ness is GONE. Not partially resolved, but GONE.

    • Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
  38. epebble says:
    @Anon

    From my link above [6],

    Living a ‘childfree’ life: 1 in 5 adults don’t want to have kids

    I enjoy “thought experiments”; but can’t begin to imagine what the country would be without post 1960 immigrants. Best I can imagine, demographically, is USSR/Russia as you mentioned.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    , @Dutch Boy
  39. @Matthew Kelly

    I saw Weird Al in concert in 2019, he was touring with an orchestra and put on an amazing, hilarious show. I highly recommend seeing him live if you have the opportunity.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Thanks: Matthew Kelly
  40. Twinkie says:
    @traducteur

    The Amish are good, respectable people. I’m glad to learn that they are doing well. Good luck to them.

    That’s what I used to think… until I lived and farmed next to them. While they have many admirable qualities, they aren’t exactly angels – they are surprisingly land-avaricious, quite hard nosed about business, and can be querulous internally (hence the reasons 1 and 6 above for their migrations).

    I much prefer the LDS folks as neighbors (but not too many, lest they go theocratic on me and ban liquor sales on Sundays and such or, worse, freeze out the non-Mormons of local business).

    The Amish are fantastic carpenters and woodworkers though.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
  41. Zpaladin says:

    I’d estimate the traditional Catholic population (those who attend the pre-Vatican II Latin mass) to be about 300,000 and average 4 children per couple but with a much higher potential recruitment rate and a similar retention rate. I’d estimate they are less than one percent of the US Catholic population today but could be 10 percent in a generation, in large part due to the general Catholic population decreasing. That would change the dynamics of the church in a major way if a minority of less than one percent becomes 10 percent especially since they would be a near majority of Catholics attending mass on any given Sunday and would account for 1/3 of the revenue. I think that is a reason they are being attacked at present. They are not disappearing but slowing growing as the rest of the church slowly shrinks.

  42. European Roma (aka gypsies) also have a “boiling off” demographic pattern, with those least amenable to a peripatetic lifestyle supported by theft and begging leaving the groups and settling down outside the Roma communitiy, and those staying in the community having very many children. The Roma population is booming, and this is having a big impact on the demographics of Romania and a smaller impact on city centers througout Europe. It is not an exact parallel with the Amish, but the “boiling off” demographic concentration of behavioral traits (different traits) is analogous.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  43. Rob McX says:
    @Anonymous

    You want to argue with Alden about “men of UNZ”?

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
  44. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Yes, I wonder about Amish pacifism. In a sense, they are freeloaders on the willingness of the “English” to enforce the law when crimes are committed against them. I wonder how Hispanic, let alone black police will react to reports of crimes against Amish people, particularly crimes committed by the police’s co-ethnics. I’ll just leave out military service, since at present service in the U.S. military has nothing to do with protecting the United States.

  45. Seran.X says:

    The Jews are busy looking for ways to settle brown, black, and everything else into Amish country as soon as they heard this info. Can’t have white people multiplying, let alone, being independent! Not even the ones who choose to live in the middle ages.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  46. @Rob McX

    Delete all after “Alden”

    • LOL: Rob McX
  47. @epebble

    This country was almost heaven before the arrival of 100 million third world migrants (and their children). Yes, 100.million is how many more people we now have, thanks to Hart-Celler, and 99.9% of them are useless, or worse. Often much worse.

  48. Cido says:

    I wrote about the Amish in 2013, including the Cochran-Harpending theory that one reason their retention rate has gone up over the generations is because they have been boiling off Amish-born individuals with genomes that don’t put up well with the Amish lifestyle, that the Amish have been breeding themselves for their favorite trait: “plainness.”

    This explain why Jews are an eternal race. It’s fascinating. The Jewish ethnic religious system is based on reproduction not outside adherence. There are many somewhat independent groups. The reformists, the conservative, orthodox and ultraorthodox. This heterogeneous population provides conditions to adapt depending on the host population. Since the groups are feed by reproduction there are natural selection.
    The problem is that the selection for smart Jews are going away, at least in Western countries. The smart Jews are assimilating fast. But the Jews will continue to exist with the more conservative groups. The selection works in the same way it works for the Amish. And Darwinian selection doesn’t work for the best, but the most fit. The Haredi people don’t look smart, but this is important for the preservation of their primitive way of life.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Lurker
    , @kaganovitch
  49. @Anon

    There are 100 million legal non whites who moved to the US since 1980. There are a additional up to 50 million illegals in the US. The total US population was projected to reach 250 million in 2050 before the 1965 immigration law changes. That is a crisis of invasion since 1965. Only 3rd world countries with very high fertility rates could manage that. The post industrial west has anything but those fertility rates, which is why mass immigration is being used more along the lines as a white genocide tool than anything.

    • Agree: 3g4me, HammerJack
    • Replies: @Anon
  50. Emma S. says:

    Aren’t the Amish one of the few White groups that have a birth rate above replacement? This is something to admire about them, too bad they’re pacifistic. What do you think could be done about the low White birth rates?

  51. Mike Tre says:
    @Anon

    and Steve approves asinine comments like this…

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @epebble
  52. Enochian says:

    Any idea of what the average Amish IQ is? Are they smart enough that ex-Amish in the 24th century could maintain a technological civilization once everyone else has gone extinct?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  53. AndrewR says:
    @Farenheit

    The elites will end up taking all the Amish land and destroying the Amish lifestyle. In 200 years there will be no Amish. Probably not in 20 years.

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
  54. AndrewR says:
    @Cido

    Jews simply do not assimilate to goyish culture. They only learn how to blend in enough to parasitize their hosts successfully.

  55. AndrewR says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Steve is reliably on the side of the US State Department and CIA.

  56. I’d like to see The World’s Most Plain Graph include the Mennonites, Hutterites and other Anabaptist groups. The Amish are just the Plainest of the Plain. The Hutterites fed the Canadian trucker convoy outside Winnipeg with a huge barbecue so it’s not like these guys all just sit back and don’t get involved in “English” politics.

  57. ic1000 says:
    @George

    > Alternative explanation, they don’t attend public school, they avoid taxation.

    That’s not an alternative explanation. Those are two facets of the environment that high-Amishness genomes are adapted to.

  58. ic1000 says:
    @George o' da Jungle

    > [The Amish] are also involved in industries like building sheds and industrial type buildings, roofing, home remodeling…

    Also notorious for puppy mills.

  59. @Enochian

    As a SWAG, I’d say 95. I’d guess that an Amish planet could maintain what we’ve got but wouldn’t push it forward very far.

    I can’t think of any really smart guys raised Amish, but Ted Sider, the Andrew W. Mellon chair of professor of philosophy at Rutgers (close to the top philosophy department), was raised Mennonite.

    https://www.philosophy.rutgers.edu/faculty-174/182-faculty-profiles/780-sider-ted

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  60. @Seran.X

    Nobody much pays attention to Amish fertility.

    • Agree: Houston 1992, Barbarossa
  61. what % of USA food supply originates from the Amish?
    will high fuel prices, shortages of fertilizer hurt or hinder them, and their expansions into new lands? Might they vertically integrate : frack for natural gas, produce fertilizer from the gas, and grow food? the downside is that the Elites would surely notice them, and many negative documentaries would soon swamp our viewing schedules……

    do Amish vote?

    I assume that they wont serve in the military in any capacity, but do they possess guns for self defense ?

    But since they dont threaten the Elites much then they may be left alone

    Ukranian farmland : Might Putin see them as a way to re-populate the eastern Ukraine and get agriculture production back up? Amish + Afrikaaners =synergy! ( I know that the events of 1917- 1933 were very hard on Amish, but they might be tempted if blocked from expanding elsewhere.)

    • Replies: @Travis
  62. @Twinkie

    That’s what I used to think… until I lived and farmed next to them. While they have many admirable qualities, they aren’t exactly angels – they are surprisingly land-avaricious, quite hard nosed about business, and can be querulous internally (hence the reasons 1 and 6 above for their migrations).

    They can be a handful to deal with externally as well.

    Anyone who has taken Amtrak through the US Midwest may attest to the Amish penchant for being domineering on the trains. They often travel in large groups, and Heaven help you if you do not happen to be part of the group.

    They may well be God-fearing folk, but my experience with them is that they are very much aware they do not have to be violent in order to get their own way.

    The Amish are one of those groups that seem charming from a distance…provided you do not have to deal with them yourself. Once that happens, the charm wears off even quicker than the novelty of seeing folks walking around in so-called “plain” clothing.

    • Replies: @fnn
  63. @S. Anonyia

    They also have high rates of genetic diseases due to the fact that they are about as inbred as the Hapsburgs by this point.

    Yeah, between the small founder population and the lack of inward conversion, which impose genetic limits, and finite farmland, which imposes economic Affordable Family Formation limits, there is some kind of population ceiling out there.

  64. @Farenheit

    Don’t forget the KJV only fundamentalist Baptists.

  65. possumman says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    The Amish are well armed and don’t mind spending money on good guns

  66. Gabe Ruth says:
    @Anon

    Probably not worth responding to an immigration ideologue, but the question is regression to which mean, the last 50 years or the rest of human existence that came before?

  67. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    What will actually happen is that everyone will get Asian wives. Even (especially) WNs.

  68. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    We’d go broke from lack of enchiladas.

  69. fnn says:
    @Luddite in Chief

    Anyone who has taken Amtrak through the US Midwest may attest to the Amish penchant for being domineering on the trains. They often travel in large groups, and Heaven help you if you do not happen to be part of the group.

    Haha, maybe because they’re Germans who haven’t undergone the 77 years of brainwashing.

  70. The Amish Have Grown 110% Since 2000

    What? All of them?
    What’s the average height now and will they be taking up basketball?

    This looks like another White Supremacy ploy.

  71. @Diversity Heretic

    Like I said upthread I bet if the rubber ever really met the road they’d get some guns and fight. I’m betting they already have them.

    Probably, there’s a big deterrent effect with being so homogenous over a lot of acreage. Blacks, latinos, even non-Amish whites who try to slink on a farm and steal some tools or otherwise make trouble are too easy to spot and call the local cops. (I also bet these communities do a lot of low-key things to ingratiate themselves with law enforcement). Another example of how non-diversity is a strength.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  72. Corvinus says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    There is a tribe. It’s called American. Join us or die.

  73. @Matthew Kelly

    Amusingly, some Amish are quite familiar with that song and think it’s hilarious.

    And Weird Al is a genius.

    Absolutely.

  74. Dutch Boy says:
    @Anonymous

    Very non-Amish me has been living this lifestyle for years. It works even without forsaking electricity.

  75. @Farenheit

    Tell us some stories please.

  76. Dutch Boy says:
    @epebble

    In my younger days I knew quite a few women who were unmarried and/or childless by choice, since many of them were intelligent and attractive, e.g., my two sisters-in-law. A number of them had had abortions. I worked with quite a few women, many of them unmarried and the married ones often were childless or had one child. I was considered an oddball with my five children, which my colleagues thought was an extravagant number. These were people with five figure incomes and could have afforded larger families easily but preferred a larger disposable income. The attitude of the men toward their wives was economic: the wives worked and provided additional income which they considered essential to their lifestyle. Children meant Fords instead of BMWs and vacation at the camp ground instead of Paris. This attitude is a spiritual disease that has afflicted vast numbers in our civilization.

    • Replies: @epebble
  77. BB753 says:
    @fnn

    As in what kind of worldly occupations?

  78. @Alden

    Reason the Amish are increasing so much is that the Amish men are familiar with the basic facts of human reproduction. Unlike the Men of UNZ who believe women conceive babies without any male input.

    Ok gents, Alden has spoken!

    You might think you’re familiar with “the basic facts of human reproduction” and those kids are yours, but if you’ve ever seen a bearded guy delivering the mail with a horse and buggy, then per Alden: “DNA test”.

    • Replies: @Alden
  79. @Twinkie

    I have a lot of Amish around me as well and you are correct about some of the bad qualities. However, I think their good qualities outweigh the bad.

    I personally get along fine with them in my own dealings. There is good and bad there just like with everyone else. They generally run a pretty tight ship and keep their places neat, though. I appreciate that since too many non-Amish just have crap and derelict vehicles everywhere.

  80. 10 billion Amish in the 24th century? I can totally see it if in addition there are 10 billion Africans and everybody else — except the technophobic Amish — fled to another planet.

  81. @Peter Johnson

    Yes. According to a Romanian friend, there are lots of highly civilized and successful people in Romania who bear family names that other Romanians recognize as being of Gypsy origin.

  82. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Nor would I, but if those boys have grown up in a peaceful well-ordered society then it’s unlikely they’ve had the opportunity to develop street-fighting skills.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @JimDandy
  83. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:

    The power of wombigration

  84. I wonder however how easy it is to “boil off” from an Amish community into mainstream society at this point with no formal education and lacking basic skills in things like telephone and computer use. The one notable was the girl from the “Breaking Amish” television show who got tarted up to become a Maxim model. But my guess is that for most young Amish the choice is between what you know and an uncertain but likely destitute existence. Maybe in the 1930s you could make a fair go of things but now I can’t really see how one transitions to “English.”

    In Southeastern Pennsylvania most upscale suburbs have some version of a farmer’s market which is partially run by Amish – often they’re the poulterers and butchers but they sell prepared Amish foodstuffs and wares. Out of their late teens the women tend to look rough – with thick, manly hands and sturdy, compact bodies. They must really do a good deal of physical labor.

  85. @Almost Missouri

    Yeah, between the small founder population and the lack of inward conversion, which impose genetic limits, and finite farmland, which imposes economic Affordable Family Formation limits, there is some kind of population ceiling out there.

    Amish societies – so far as we know them – seem to have avoided much of the dysfunction seen in other consanguineous clan-based societies. It’s probably the affordable farmland factor, where if there is a clan dispute one half just moves away and starts over unlike in, say, Sicily where the dispute becomes an intergenerational vendetta which in the aggregate prohibits the formation of a functional social order.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  86. @The Anti-Gnostic

    I actually wouldn’t be the guy to test the purported Amish commitment to non-violence.

    The plot twist in 1985’s Witness is that Harrison Ford’s character (who is a cop hiding out among the Amish in Pennsylvania from other cops from Philadelphia who are trying to kill him because he and an Amish boy uncovered their corruption) witnesses a group of local no good teens harass his Amish group and the Amish won’t fight back. Instead of turning the other cheek, Ford’s character beats the snot out of the teens. The police report of an Amish man fighting is so unusual that it tips Ford’s character’s pursuers off as to his whereabouts, leading to the ultimate shoot out and resolution of the film in Amish country.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
  87. G. Poulin says:
    @Jay Fink

    I don’t know. Those long dresses and heavy boots, coupled with a knowing “you can’t have me” look, can be a real turn-on for some guys.

  88. @Anon

    We can safely assume that, for the next 50 years, fertility trends in the developed will remain unchanged. And that’s ASSUMING the fertility decline will not accelerate. All indicators suggest that it is. Anti-natality ideology is rising among the youth while religious affiliations like the ones you describe continue to die out among young people.

    No, there is no “crisis of invasion”. The crisis is low fertility. The number of immigrants who came here was small. They would have been swamped out if the native fertility rate had remained at 3.5 where it was in the 1960s, and the USA would still be around 80% non-Hispanic white. The US would be an absolute disaster nowadays, comparable to Ukraine or Russia, if it did not have immigrants.

    LOL. Just tell us what country you decamped from to grace us with your “wisdom”.

    I’ll try and be polite. But honestly when your power of mathematical analysis and vision extends to one derivative, and maybe just a touch beyond–maybe it can change a bit the same way it’s been going–you really should not trot forward to offer your mathematical insights.

    Believe it or not there are more derivatives out there. And there are even graphs that don’t zoom off to infinity or plunge to zero. There are even–hold onto your keyboard–waves. You’d have been predicting the imminent extinction of rabbits five or ten years ago when the coyotes were here. But lo and behold … they’re everywhere. (One was just staring at me–like he owned the joint–a few minutes back when I went down to raise some more sails over the patio/West windows. Another warm day in the PNW.)

    Some simple points:

    — Selection is real.

    — The 1960s–i.e. the decade–did not have 3.5 TFR (in the US); The modern period of above 3.0 TFR was the “baby boom” It was preceded and followed by much lower TFR.

    — You, well sane people, would not want to run–your whole population–at 3.5 TFR for very long if your technological level is such that replacement is 2.05. You’ll be doubling roughly every 40 years ( (3.5/2.05)**1.3=2.0). You’ll be up 5x in a century.
    I.e. modernity does require lower TFR to preserve a decent quality of life. Intelligent people understand this.

    — Japan. Japan is an excellent example of what actually matters. Japan is quite crowded already–well beyond “optimum”. It is past its population peak and given its low fertility (1.3-1.4) into a dramatic population fall. But if–granted a big, and critical “if”–if Japan can continue to keep the riff-raff out in three generations or so if will be down to about half its current population with more or less recovered fertility as housing and jobs are plentiful and breeders come to the fore. And it will still be “Japan”. And a much less crowded, much more pleasant Japan.

    — Low TFR is not a completely autonomous variable. Immigration drives down wages, drives up unemployment and housing prices–drives down Steve’s “Affordable Family Formation”. I.e. immigration is one of the (many) causes of lower fertility in the US.

    — It is a trivial exercise to figure out the rough contours of the “no modern immigration” America–simply toss out “Hispanic” and “Asian” numbers. (There have been non-Hispanic white and black immigrants, but proportionately many more blacks, so what follows is actually worse, than what your’d have.) 197m whites, 41m blacks, 2m Indians. In addition, you’d have a few million Hispanics and Asians anyway. Basically–no modern immigration–you’d have a country of 250 million, 80% white, 16% black and a light sprinkling of other.

    — It’s more complicated modelling to handle your “TFR stays at 3.5 while immigration rolls.” But it is absolutely trivial to figure out where that model goes:

    Imagine you’ve got a little swale on your property that has a modest pond at the bottom, with some slightly muddy but quite swimmable water. Then every year you test the water and add in an additional 1.75% to it of exactly the same clarity–water/mud proportion … but then with your loader dump in additional mud from neighbor’s field. Which pond would you rather swim in? Drink from? If that’s your program the water can not get cleaner–it just gets muddier and muddier–and of course it quickly fills up your swale and drowns everything else.

    None of this is remotely complicated to understand, mathematically and otherwise. If you do not want to understand it … that’s on you.

    • Thanks: Rob McX
  89. epebble says:
    @Dutch Boy

    The Roe case is having interesting side effects:

    More women are seeking sterilization since Roe vs. Wade was overturned
    https://news.yahoo.com/more-women-seeking-sterilization-since-120000675.html

    Snipped in solidarity: the American men getting vasectomies after Roe – while they can
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/27/vasectomy-roe-v-wade-abortion-supreme-court

    An unintended consequence of Roe overturning may be fewer births. Just the fear of becoming pregnant may push those who may consider themselves less than disciplined to go permanent.

  90. @Jay Fink

    I wouldn’t want a plain wife of any age. Amish women turn me off. They have no sex appeal.

    I can’t really say “met”–as they generally aren’t very talkative with outsiders–but in their shops I’ve seen cute ones and un-cute ones. (But then I don’t need a girl to “whore up” to be attractive. In fact, I prefer not. Just let your natural femininity do the heavy lifting.)

    Pretty sure, in the community, the Amish girls have what it takes. And we know that under those yards of fabric their feminine equipment is in working order.

  91. @Stolen Valor Detective

    Once Bill Gates has croaked, the Amish will buy up his farmland.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  92. @AndrewR

    On the contrary, today’s elites will all be dead in 20 years, you can’t go against nature and survive. The Amish work with nature not against it and follow it’s rules. They will be the survivors.

  93. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    They actually have some pretty big issues with recessive genetics. A number of years ago I dated a “genetics counselor” (there is such a thing) who had worked with Amish. I don’t recall whether they were becoming pro-active about genetic testing like the Jews have done with Tay-Sachs.

    True story: a Lebanese immigrant from the hill country (he’d be considered a Lebanese “redneck”) told me their priests said they would not marry two people from the same village in the Church. So if you wanted to get married in the Church (and, of course, there was no question that you did) you had to go down into the valley or the next village over. That was how they avoided high consanguinity in a region with missing or dubious birth records. He was over six feet and really fit and fought for one of the militias so it seemed to be a good strategy.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @ScarletNumber
  94. Arthur Sido says: • Website

    The rate of births is slowing, we know tons of Amish families and while the older couples frequently had a dozen or more kids, the younger generation are getting married later and having smaller families. Smaller being relative, like 6-7 kids but still the rate of increase is slowing down at least in our local community.

  95. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Blah blah blah blah. My point is that the Amish have a culture and economy that enables them to

    1 Go to work at a skilled job and earn an comfortable living at a young age. Like 21 instead of 38 when the student loans are paid off

    2 Get married young and support several children in a comfortable home.

    3 And most of all Amish men know that it takes a man and a woman or at least an egg, a sperm and a glass Petri dish to make a baby.

    My diatribes are not directed at patriarchal societies. Nor White men who are the most discriminated demographic b cause of affirmative action.

    My diatribes are directed at the legally defined pedophiles and pervs who endlessly pontificate that it should be legal to have sexual with girls no matter how young as soon as she menstruates a sure sign of fertility. As though every 11 and 12 year old girl wants sex with an icky old perv.

    Then there’s the ignorant morons who claim that just because medieval princesses got engaged at 12 and married at 14 they had a baby 9 months after the wedding . Not true you old perv. Read the histories. Except for Margaret Beaufort Tudor who had a serious agenda, most of those teen queens didn’t have their first child till 18 2o. The most fertile English queen of all had 14 children. 2 by her first husband. 12 by the second. and only 2 died And she had her first at 22.

    Another you icky old perverts endlessly obsessed with female fertility are ignorant of is that right up to the end of the 19th century most White women didn’t start ovulating till 16 to 18. B cause of 2 factors.

    1 bad nutrition
    2 a factor none of you ignorant morons yapping about female fertility know about. Jack D might.

    Endless comments about female fertility and you don’t know a thing about it.

    So all this Men of UNZ defending Epstein and others and pontificating by creepy old men about having sex with 12 year olds is obviously fantasy. And totally absolutely just unseemly.,

    If the Men of UNZ want more White children do what my husband and his brothers did. Get married and have some kids. Instead of whining about women.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Truth
  96. Alden says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    I’ve known several Jewish women who got tested for Tay Sachs in their early 20s. They wanted to know about their own genetics Before they met anyone Excellent idea.

  97. Alden says:
    @AnotherDad

    What I meant was the Men of UNZ including you. Father of two who demands other Whites have 5 or 6 kids to out breed the blacks and browns.

    Endlessly carry on that White women aren’t having enough White children. As though men had nothing to do with conception.

    1948 Truman integrating the military 1953 Supreme Court integrating public schools. 1956 Eisenhower sending the army to shove bayonets in the backs of White kids and tanks to small town Tennessee March 6 1961 race traitor Kennedys executive order 10925 mandating affirmative action for blacks in federal employment and even more important cases contracting .

    Those actions by Truman the satanic Supreme Court Eisenhower and Kennedy were the beginning of the transition of American Whites to basically untouchables denied benefits available to any black brown or Asian who arrived yesterday.

    Only idiots think that a population explosion of White children will remove the bigotry hatred of and discrimination against Whites in America.

    Look what they did to us 3 generations ago. Having more White children wine remove the discrimination and hatred against Whites.

  98. @anon

    If gays can adopt, why not Amish. Certainly some of them are infertile and could adopt some kids. That would end the genetic inbred issue. If one Amish couple in a community adopted four unrelated white children, that would add some fresh meat to their group and some somewhat diverse genetics.

    • Replies: @Alden
  99. @Zpaladin

    “I’d estimate they [trad catholic] are less than one percent of the US Catholic population today but could be 10 percent in a generation, in large part due to the general Catholic population decreasing. That would change the dynamics of the church in a major way if a minority of less than one percent becomes 10 percent especially since they would be a near majority of Catholics attending mass on any given Sunday…”

    It is more like what fraction of teen Catholics that attend mass are traditional sorts.

  100. @Stolen Valor Detective

    I have a solution: let the Amish do ALL the farming.

    USA 2084 is Sparta. Nobody owns anything, the society is entirely focused on ongoing war with the imperial power from the East, and the soy and crickets sustaining it all are grown by the Amish Helot class.

  101. Religious fanatics of low intelligence and authoritarian, anti-libertarian personalities breeding like rabbits. This is exactly what we need more of. This follows the trend that is observed in the entire Western World: the urbanite, college-educated, bourgeoise, liberal/libertarian, agnostic classes are having less and less kids, which is in line with them being strongly K-selected strategists, while the more rural, religious, anti-liberal, less scholarly, working-class, socially conservative people are being more successful at replicating themselves despite having lower average incomes.

    It might be true that this trend might “save” the West in the sense that more rural and conservative people are more hostile to foreigners and people that are different from themselves in general than more liberal-minded people, and with this might keep out hostile foreigners that want to destroy the West outside of it, but this begs the question of what is exactly of the “West” will be saved? Because it is exactly those urbanite, liberal values of the West like individualism, separation of Church and State, and social mobility not stratified by birth class that allowed the West to become economically and technologically so far superior to the rest of the World.

    I wonder what will be left of the West as we understand it if social and religious conservatives take over the West. If the teaching of Evolution is banned from schools, if women’s rights gets rolled back even more than they already were by the recent outrulling of Rowe Vs Wade, if the government starts to enforce collectivistic values based on religious and social prejudices over individual rights, then what exactly will be left of the “West” that makes it what it is? The West will be just a glorified Mexico: a stagnant, structured type of S0ciety with little economic and technological progress.

    Social/religious conservatives are not very good at creating wealth or technological progress. Sillicon Valley, for instance, is even more liberal than Hollywood or the media. The Ivy Leagues, which single-handedly win more than half of American Nobel Prizes, are bastions of liberalism.

    I think that social conservatives are in denial that the greatness of the West was created mostly by the efforts and values of the liberal/urbanite, educated upper-middle and upper classes. White conservatives are the genetic descendents of warriors and farmers, white liberals are the genetic descendents of the merchant/scholar classes, mostly bourgeoise classes.

    The fundamental problem of white liberals is their absolute inability to defend themselves against emotional manipulation from hostile foreigners that hate them and want to destroy them because they are hardwired towards universailist morality, so they need white conservatives to step on the breaks and save them from their own self-destructive tendencies. It’s not the fault of white liberals: it’s the way their brains are hard-wired by Evolution to feel. African dicators have known since the 1960’s that all they have to do to pocket billions from white liberals in the West is to show them pictures of starving children they they caused to starve in the first place, and the altruistic universailist morality of white liberals kicks in and they increase their net worth by billions.

    So the West needs white conservatives to puill the breaks and save the West from the self-destruictive tendencies of it’s natural liberal rulling elite. The real question here is: to what degree? How *far* should the conservatives pull the breaks on their liberal rulling class? At which point does the pulling of the breaks become so severe that the West starts to look more and more like those retrograde societies that we constantly use as examples of why the West is superior, and that we are trying to avoid becoming? *Those* are the important questions. A Society that looks like an Amish town or a Mormon town is no better than an Iranian town living under Sharia law. If this is the price to save the West, it is not worth saving in the first place.

  102. Anon[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas Hotchis

    There are 100 million legal non whites who moved to the US since 1980. There are a additional up to 50 million illegals in the US

    LOL you pulled that out of your ass.

    The US population was 223 million in 1980. Its 336 million today.

    You’re saying that no white person has had kids in America since 1980.

    Why do Conservatards enjoy getting punished like Liberals used to back in the 60s?

    Me thinks a lot you alt-righters are lefties who turned racist because it’s the latest countercultural fad.

    • Replies: @Thomas Hotchis
  103. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Alexander Godunov, playing one the local Amish in Pennsylvania, explains it is because Ford’s character is supposedly his cousin from Ohio, when the local merchant seems incredulous as to why he beat up the local hoods.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  104. Lurker says:
    @Cido

    The problem is that the selection for smart Jews are going away

    Problem?

  105. Anon[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew

    Maybe not, but I’ve heard from people who live close to the Amish that there’s a fair amount of them that beat their kids fairly hard, at least harder than the white “English”(Amish term for non-Amish) parents. Maybe there’s a bit more combat experience than meets the eye to the outside English.

  106. @Zpaladin

    I agree. The big question is retention rate, but as you mentioned, there is also the fact that they have the potential to pull in many recruits.

    The priests of the American-born priests of thr future will largely be drawn from this cohort.

  107. Truth says:
    @Alden

    Tell ’em Aldey!

    BTW; I kinda respect the Men of Ams, too.

  108. @prime noticer

    this is also why jewish people instinctively, reflexively dislike european people so much. jewish groups boil off tribe members who don’t hate europeans, as those people intermarry and dissolve away, the primary fear of jewish leaders. over 2000 years of this, these leaves a core people who dislike europeans strongly.

    This is pretty much the inverse of the truth. Those Jews most likely to be politically active against Europeans (secular , educated) are orders of magnitude more likely to intermarry than those Jews who are pro-European( Orthodox observant Jews).

    • Replies: @prime noticer
  109. @Reg Cæsar

    (7) genetic diversity, i.e., not having children born with fused fingers or dwarfism.

    This revolting display of ‘pentofingerist normativity’ at the expense of the differently fingered , coming at a time when our most basic rights are under assault , is designed to make the otherly fingered and the butterly fingered feel unsafe. Literally shaking here.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  110. @Zero Philosopher

    Social/religious conservatives are not very good at creating wealth or technological progress.

    But really good at building Gothic cathedrals and sailing boats to places like America.

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  111. @Anon

    That’s after 15 years of mass immigration from 1965. The Hispanics in the US didn’t go from less than 1% of the US population in 1965 to more than 20% today in less than 57 years for nothing. Add in the 50+ million illegal Hispanics and they are hovering around 30% of the US population – more than 30 times what they were at in 1965.

    Muslims, Asians, Hindus/Indians, etc. were also bundled in that 1% “other” – other meaning NOT WASP White or Black descended from American slaves – 90% was White WASP in 1965, 9% Black, 1% everything else combined.

    Asians are 6+% now alone. That’s in addition to the Hispanics, and millions of blacks from Africa and the Caribbean that have padded the numbers of Blacks in the country. Muslims ballooned from being never seen to 5%+ or minus a point.

    There are plenty of sources on this. Although I was off by 20 years, it was going to be 250 million by 2030 and not 2050 if LBJ and his ((Handlers)) didn’t change the immigration laws.

    Here is a source right here, and it is from a progressive, someone who would only have reasons to deny it as you do rather than admit the obvious. This is from Page 26 of the book: “How Many Is Too Many?
    The Progressive Argument for Reducing Immigration Into the United States
    By Philip Cafaro · 2015”

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/-zgyBgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

    “Without post 1970-immigration the US population would have leveled off by 2030 at 250 million.”

    There are many other sources from before 1965 that estimate within the same general ballpark – 200 million Whites and 50 million negros by 2030 to 2050, this is without the population replacement scheme / white genocide that the ((Powers That Be)) have instead pushed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  112. George says:

    Do Amish become doctors, scientists, engineers, ect? At some point they will have to as you don’t become millions or billions without actually producing modernity, as opposed to consuming it.

  113. Artists were inspired by religious themes in the past, but that is not the same as great art being created by religious conservatives. Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel, and yet he was a gay man with a huge fondness for boys. Would religious conservative Americans accept Michaelangelo as a social conservative? Nope. They would call him a degenerate bound for Hell.

    You might as well argue that religious consevatives invented calculus, too, since Newton was a practicing Christian. The fact is, the World changes. Social and academic elites were a lot more religious in the past because people were more ignorant and the amount of scientific knowledge that that they had back then was paultry compared to today.

    Fun fact for you: artists are overwhelmingly liberal, and scientists are overwhelmingly agnostic or atheists. Please tell me where is the great art and icience created by social conservatives today? All the time I check, it’s social conservatives trying to shove the Bible down all the non-believers throats and trying to get Evolution banned from schools.

    The same thing for Columbus and all the other explorers like Cortez and Pizarro. They were not “social conservatives”, but men of their time. They were no more religious than the average person of their time. Also, their behavior was no exactly the epitome of Christian behavior: Cortez was mass murderer and serial rapist. He weared the cross around his neck even as he raped Amerindian girls and slit her throat.

    Arguing that social conservatives create great art and do great things because a tiny number of elite artists, explorers and scientists in the distant past, who were conservative and religious for our time but not for theirs, created Gothic cathedrals and amazing paintings and amthematics is incredibly silly and frankly asisine. Newton was not more religious than the norm of his time, nor was Michaelangelo who, again, liked to sleep with boys. Likewise, Columbus was a man of his time and was way more educated than the average man of his tim. Also, your argument is redundant since 99.999% of all the other “conservatves” couldn’t.

    The truth is that the World evolves. Elites were more religious in the past because of ignorance. But as new knowledge was acquired, they unlike the common people became less superstitious. People like you missed a little something called the scientific revolution and the Enlightenement. They eolved, but you stayed in the same place as a subborn mule.

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Alden
    , @Cido
  114. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Every farmer owns and uses guns regularly. First, he has to fend off predators: coyotes, raccoons and such. As well, he has to kill his animals when they’re no longer useful producers and are to be turned into meat. A farmer has a no-exceptions policy of “Don’t mess with my livestock or my garden”.

    Unlike the corrupt court system under which we city-dwellers labor, farmers don’t think of their land and animals as fungible. They’re not just money that walks about on four legs. They’re his, the product of his labor and intelligence. This is the difference between the mass mentality of people living in a mass-produced world and a people living in the world their hands and minds create.

    As Marx pointed out, the bulk of workers are alienated from the product of their labor. Alienated people have a slave mentality. The Amish refuse to buckle under and adopt the slave-like mentality of dispossessed urban drones, the ones who will own nothing and be happy about it. Only dispossessed urban drones display such severe symptoms of sickness such as valuing transvestitism and faggotry. That they do so shows just how alienated they are from their own real nature–and not only their own nature, but Nature herself.

  115. BB753 says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    You have a very apt name, Zero Philosopher.
    How do you know that the builders of cathedrals were any less religious than the average man of his time? Also, what’s this average religiosity? How do you quantify it, man of science?
    Your response is full of unprovable assertions. Cortez as a rapist, for instance. Do you have a citation? In fact, he went on to have a child with Malinche, his interpreter, who was then married off to one of his captains.
    https://www.thoughtco.com/biography-of-malinche-2136516

    While a majority of scientists are atheists or deists, some are Christian. Here’s one instance: the author of the following book, an Orthodox theologian and philosopher, holds a PhD in Physics:
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43941.Aristotle_East_and_West
    Here’s Cornelius Hunter, a biophysicist, a Christian and evolution sceptic:
    https://www.discovery.org/b/darwins-god/

    Get your facts right: Newton was decidedly not a Christian, but rather some kind of unitarian theist, and a committed alchemist and possibly rosacrutian.
    As for artists: who cares about modern artists? It’s all garbage anyhow.

    • Replies: @Alden
  116. @epebble

    I call BS on this. Way too convenient in their timing.

    • Replies: @epebble
  117. And the meek shall inherit the earth?

  118. @JimDandy

    Short Answer: No.

    Rarely done and becoming rarer over time. The gap in daily mental life growing between “English” and Amish even as they adapt slowly.

    https://amishamerica.com/becoming-amish/

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  119. @Zero Philosopher

    “Because it is exactly those urbanite, liberal values of the West like individualism, separation of Church and State, and social mobility not stratified by birth class that allowed the West to become economically and technologically so far superior to the rest of the World.”

    Nonetheless, a mixed blessing.

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  120. @Cido

    The Haredi people don’t look smart, but this is important for the preservation of their primitive way of life.

    I’m not sure if you are talking about Israeli or Western Haredim here? While I’m not aware of any academic IQ study of American Haredim, I have lived almost all my life in a Haredi milieu, Haredi elementary schools, Yeshiva, shuls etc. I can tell you at least from the ‘smart fraction’ perspective Haredim are not significantly, if at all, stupider than their secular Ashkenazi brethren. High level Talmudic study requires significant mental horsepower and there is no shortage of high level Talmudists in the Haredi community.

    • Replies: @Cido
  121. @kaganovitch

    “This is pretty much the inverse of the truth.”

    if you didn’t know anything about biology, ecological niches, or parasites, yes. that would seem to be the case. if you did know anything about that stuff though, obviously no. and the current war between Russia and Ukraine is instructive, as always. all the people posing as “Russians” or “Ukrainians” who actually aren’t, never were, and never intended to be, take the first flight to Israel when things don’t go their way. there would be no flights to Israel if your hypothesis were the case.

    reflexive, instinctive dislike for europeans is the evolved defense mechanism for continued jewish existence under their voluntary, loud, and obnoxious demand to live everywhere europeans live. parasites prefer to live among their hosts, they don’t avoid their hosts. sometimes, the host immune system eliminates them. sometimes not. but if you absolutely, positively demand to live among the other living things which you don’t want to merge into, you have to develop really good friend-enemy distinction mechanisms.

    there are other systems which other groups use. usually the algorithm is “we don’t want much to do with anybody and we’ll live by ourselves, thanks”. and, strangely, those people don’t intensely hate europeans, because they haven’t evolved to do so, because, they don’t demand that they live among and control the people that they don’t want to merge with, as jewish people do.

  122. Alden says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    Check the statistics about White children available for adoption whether legal illegal or Gray market adoptions.

    There are so few White babies available for adoption Whites wanting someone else’s baby have to use surrogate mothers and fertility clinic eggs. It costs a lot of money. And there’s an entire industry of pregnant White women doctors lawyers adoption counselors who connect poor pregnant or poor happy to get pregnant White women with childless Whites able to pay enormous sums for that baby.

    It’s illegal to buy a baby. But it’s perfectly legal to pay extremely high expenses to the biological mother.

    It’s not 1922 with no welfare, enormous stigma and shame about having and keeping illegitimate babies and unwed mothers homes in every city where it was assumed all those babies would be adopted soon after birth. And they were

    It’s 2022

    Reasons for the lack of White babies for adoption are; A effective birth control B welfare being better paid and more secure than most crap jobs. So White women either don’t have illegitimate babies or welcome those babies as a source of steady income for the next 18 years. All those benefits add up. For instance food cards plus WIC food coupons plus free breakfast and lunch at school and day care.

    Check the racial statistics about babies available for adoption

    There’s also nature and nurture.

    Even children born from sperm donated to fertility clinics often turn out much more like the sperm donor than the mother’s husband who raised the child from birth.

    • Replies: @epebble
  123. i found a tall guy who is not in the NBA, so obviously height is not that relevant. i found a smart guy who aces IQ tests but he’s a broke security guard who barely makes ends meet instead of a tenured physics professor, so obviously intelligence is not that relevant. i found a successful jewish person who married a not jewish person, so obviously their proposed biological strategy here is not that relevant.

    in each case, obviously not. it’s less relevant whether their strategy is 100% effective, 90% effective, 80% effective. just as long as the number of biologically jewish people continues to go up every generation, over a hundred generations among the europeans. which it is. thus, it is considered by biology standards to be successful. that is to say, the jewish biology strategy is above replacement.

    indeed, it is particularly good at this specific scenario – the worst case scenario. the one of modern life after 1900 – casual sex, birth control, no arranged marriages, travel over distances is easy, potential mates are plentiful and everywhere instead of less common and provincial. there are hundreds of potential mates instead of a couple.

    despite all this, the strategy remains the same. once you have significant success, do not marry out. stay in the group. ignore the local population and the higher number of marriage options they offer. accept fewer marriage options and possibly lower quality women than you could otherwise get, so you can stay in the group, for the good of the group.

    indeed, you can see this thinking permeate everything they do. is this good for our group? then that’s the thing we do. the post industrial age world reduces the effectiveness of their strategy, but it doesn’t negate it. as long as jewish reproduction remains above replacement, and it is, it just doesn’t matter that Billy Joel married a gentile model, or any other example you can think of. the boil off rate is what matters, and by the numbers, it’s still not a existential threat to the group even today. because of the strategy.

  124. Alden says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    I thought it was Pascal that created calculus????? You’re absolutely right that Newton was a practicing Christian of the official established Church of England.

    Has he not attended Church of England Services on a regular basis as an adult he would have been bankrupted by the recusant fines like the Catholics and Quakers. And would never been appointed to any government job including outhouse cleaner , let alone Controller of the Mint. Had his parents not had him baptized by a Church of England clergy critter sent to Sunday school and confirmed; they too would have been bankrupted by the recusant fines. And he would never have been allowed university had he not been listed as a practicing Church of England Christian.

    Whatever atheists think about Newtons thoughts, Newton was a practicing Christian established state religion CofE variety

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  125. Alden says:
    @BB753

    Whatever atheists agnostics theosophists magicians masons wiccans etc think about Newton’s private thoughts he was a practicing Christian of the official established Church of England variety.

    Had he not been baptized and attended CofE services regularly he would never been appointed Controller of the Mint or any other government office including trash collector , or admitted to Trinity college.

    Had he not been baptized and the family not attended CofE services regularly his parents would have been bankrupted by the recusant fines. Had he stopped attending CofE services he would have been bankrupted by the recusant fines.

    Whatever his private thoughts he was a practicing CofE Christian. Took great courage and a lot of money to not show up to be checked in to the nearest CofE church regularly enough to avoid being a recusant

    Malinche was Aztec ethnicity a slave sold to the Mayans on the east coast. She seems to have resented both nations. There were a few shipwrecked sSpanish sailors in the town. She learned Spanish from them. And that there was an entire world of islands and Spain. When Cortez landed she was right there with the Mayan leaders who conquered the Aztec capital with Cortez. I speak Aztec Spanish and Mayan and I want revenge. Like the goth slaves in Rome who helped the goth army conquer Rome.

    • Replies: @BB753
  126. Anon[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas Hotchis

    Literally nothing you’re quoting says anything to support your fucktarded claim that we added 150 milion non-white immigrants since 1980.

    • Replies: @Thomas Hotchis
  127. Travis says:
    @Houston 1992

    The Amish do not typically vote and do not own guns, nor do they pay FICA taxes since they do not collect social security and they refuse to participate in medicare because they oppose all forms of insurance. Back in the eighties my uncle declared himself Mennonite in order to avoid paying FICA taxes when he was self employed…he did this from 1980 until 1992 when he took a job teaching and was no longer self-employed.

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @Joe Stalin
  128. anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Zpaladin

    I think that is a reason they are being attacked at present. They are not disappearing but slowing growing as the rest of the church slowly shrinks.

    I’d delete the last “slowly” regarding the American church in the 2020s. The two guys who run the online newsletter The Pillar, who do real investigative journalism about Church matters (both in Rome and worldwide), have crunched the numbers from the various authoritative surveys and estimate that, across the board, US parishes averaged about a 15% drop in Mass attendance from February 2020 figures to when the churches re-opened–a staggering decline for only <18 months. Not even the the two waves of pedo/homo scandals (in 2002 and 2018) combined did as much damage.

    Covid was a huge hit below the waterline–really a further nail in the coffin of "cultural Catholicism." That 15% isn't coming back–they were getting up early on Sunday morning simply out of inertia. And as the pig-in-the-python demographic of Catholic Boomers die off, they are not going to be replaced by similar numbers of Millennials–whose plurality religious identification is "none." Ask yourself which Mass is going to be more interesting to these unchurched Nones–the Peter, Paul and Mary guitar "new Masses," or the trad Mass which even Hollywood knows is what Catholicism is supposed to look and feel like?

    It isn't just higher TFRs among the trads–the Church is going to run out of priests to say the new Mass. By 2030, 2035 at the latest, there will be more SSPX (a trad order) priests in the world than Jesuits. Parishes by default will have to be closed, and again, the "cultural Catholics" are not going to drive an extra 10-20 miles for the new Mass, and they too will drop away.

    This is why a lot of trads are angry at the recent attacks, but not afraid–they know the math will eventually and inevitably work for them.

  129. JimDandy says:
    @International Jew

    I’ll take primitive barn-building strength over your average street thugs’ skills.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
  130. epebble says:
    @Travis

    my uncle declared himself Mennonite in order to avoid paying FICA taxes

    If it is this easy, won’t everyone become a Mennonite to get a 15.3% raise?

  131. @Anon

    The information is easily accessible and it shows that they plus their children or anchor babies born here easily gets into the 150 million ballpark. But since you are a lazy 3rd rate troll no different than the 3rd world Gimmegrants that have flooded the US and other parts of the West, that’s asking a bit much of you to do it yourself.

    Here I’ll help:

    The nation’s immigrant population increased sharply from 1970 to 2000, though the rate of growth has slowed since then. Still, the U.S. has—by far—the world’s largest immigrant population, holding about one-in-five of the world’s immigrants (Connor, Cohn and Gonzalez-Barrera, 2013).

    Between 1965 and 2015, new immigrants, their children and their grandchildren accounted for 55% of U.S. population growth. They added 72 million people to the nation’s population as it grew from 193 million in 1965 to 324 million in 2015.

    U.S. Foreign-Born Population Reached 45 Million in 2015, Projected to Reach 78 Million by 2065
    This fast-growing immigrant population also has driven the share of the U.S. population that is foreign born from 5% in 1965 to 14% today and will push it to a projected record 18% in 2065. Already, today’s 14% foreign-born share is a near historic record for the U.S., just slightly below the 15% levels seen shortly after the turn of the 20th century. The combined population share of immigrants and their U.S.-born children, 26% today, is projected to rise to 36% in 2065, at least equaling previous peak levels at the turn of the 20th century.

    Add in the 50+ million illegal Hispanics and the number gets very close to 150 million if not over it once their anchor babies are counted as well.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/

    Btw. This is my last response to you as you can’t back up your own claims while I have done so twice now.

    • Thanks: Alden
  132. Cido says:
    @kaganovitch

    I’m not sure if you are talking about Israeli or Western Haredim here? While I’m not aware of any academic IQ study of American Haredim, I have lived almost all my life in a Haredi milieu, Haredi elementary schools, Yeshiva, shuls etc. I can tell you at least from the ‘smart fraction’ perspective Haredim are not significantly, if at all, stupider than their secular Ashkenazi brethren. High level Talmudic study requires significant mental horsepower and there is no shortage of high level Talmudists in the Haredi community.

    I’m writing about the selection that the Ultra-Orthodox way of life has in the population of that Jewish sect. The character of the Jewish people in the West is their economic prosperity, and occupations in highly cognitive demanding activities , for example science. The Jews needed the brainpower to be ahead of the gentiles and survive in their environment. But nowadays Jews are accepted as equals like their gentile hosts. For many liberal Jews it not make sense to invest in the communal preservation of their ethnicity, if they are looked as equals to members of the host society.

    On the other hand, Ultra-Orthodox Jews are able to dedicate their lives only to perpetuate their ethno -religious roots. This can be feed by generous welfare in Israel, but also in gentile lands like Kyrias Joel in USA. They are motivated to preserve thousand years meaningless superstitions. Smart people are interested in real world objective truts, not Bronze Age superstitions. This is different of the stereotype of the curious Jew, open to philosophical, technological and scientific challenges.

    To be able to live in their alienated way of life, outside the modern world, Ultra-Orthodox Jews need to develop suboptimal psychological traits. One of them is lower scores in the Openness trait of personality, like the Amish. The Openness to new experiences is the personality aspect more connected with intelligence.

    Of course the genetic basis of the traits which fit for the Ultra-Orthodox lifestyle is selected through many generations. The process is the same which have been occurring with the Amish.

  133. @Charlotte Allen

    I posted my reply to you, but forgot to quote it as a reply to you. Here you go:

    “Artists were inspired by religious themes in the past, but that is not the same as great art being created by religious conservatives. Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel, and yet he was a gay man with a huge fondness for boys. Would religious conservative Americans accept Michaelangelo as a social conservative? Nope. They would call him a degenerate bound for Hell.

    You might as well argue that religious consevatives invented calculus, too, since Newton was a practicing Christian. The fact is, the World changes. Social and academic elites were a lot more religious in the past because people were more ignorant and the amount of scientific knowledge that that they had back then was paultry compared to today.

    Fun fact for you: artists are overwhelmingly liberal, and scientists are overwhelmingly agnostic or atheists. Please tell me where is the great art and icience created by social conservatives today? All the time I check, it’s social conservatives trying to shove the Bible down all the non-believers throats and trying to get Evolution banned from schools.

    The same thing for Columbus and all the other explorers like Cortez and Pizarro. They were not “social conservatives”, but men of their time. They were no more religious than the average person of their time. Also, their behavior was no exactly the epitome of Christian behavior: Cortez was mass murderer and serial rapist. He weared the cross around his neck even as he raped Amerindian girls and slit her throat.

    Arguing that social conservatives create great art and do great things because a tiny number of elite artists, explorers and scientists in the distant past, who were conservative and religious for our time but not for theirs, created Gothic cathedrals and amazing paintings and amthematics is incredibly silly and frankly asisine. Newton was not more religious than the norm of his time, nor was Michaelangelo who, again, liked to sleep with boys. Likewise, Columbus was a man of his time and was way more educated than the average man of his tim. Also, your argument is redundant since 99.999% of all the other “conservatves” couldn’t.

    The truth is that the World evolves. Elites were more religious in the past because of ignorance. But as new knowledge was acquired, they unlike the common people became less superstitious. People like you missed a little something called the scientific revolution and the Enlightenement. They eolved, but you stayed in the same place as a subborn mule.

  134. @Alden

    He was a practicing Christian because back then everybody was, because people were so ignorant about how the Universe works(including Newton), that it was almost impossible not to be religious.

    I was using that an an example in my reply to the poster Charlotte Allen, who tried to sass me saying that religious conservatives have built Gothic cathedrals and sailed the World, in reply to my original comment arguing that social conservatives are terrible at creating culture and technology.

    My point is that cultural elites were a lot more religious 500-800 years ago then now because of how ignorant people were in those days about how the World works. So you cannot really count Gothic cathedrals and the Sistine Chapel and other accomplishments made by those elite individuals from the past as accomplishments of “conservatives”, because they were not “conservatves” as modern Americans use the term: They were people of their time.

    This is like saying that Thomas Jefferson was in favor of slavery because he owned slaves. Fact is, any white man of weatlh owned slaves in those times. It’s just the way things were. Thomas Jefferson was extremely liberal for his time, being in favor of separation between Church and State, being against aristocratic rule, etc.

  135. BB753 says:
    @Alden

    Right, Newton publicly was a practicing Anglican and privately an alchemist and heretic. His occultic writings prove it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  136. @JimDandy

    Growing up, I knew a lot of tough guys.

    The average tough guy, looking at that picture, is probably thinking “fresh meat”.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  137. @Prester John

    Absolutely a mixed blessing. It’s obvious that white liberals and liberalism has gone too far, and that now it is a force destroying Western Civilization, the same civilization that the liberals built with their values and efforts and became the envy of the World.

    This is why the white liberals, who are the cultural and economic elites of the West, need white conservatives to pull the breaks and save them from their own destruction. Because white liberals are like heroin junkies for empathy and displays of selflessness, even when it is leading them to their destruction. They cannot help themselves. Their brains are hard-wired for universalist altruistic morality. No, it’s not an act to feel morally superior. They *actually* feel that this is the only way to be a good person.

    Like I said, white conservatives are the genetic descendants of farmers and warriors, while white liberals are the genetic descendants of merchants and scholars. White liberals are just not very violent people. They are not fighters. Because of their gullibleness and univeral altruism, they are easy prey of emotional manipulation from hostile foreigners that hate them, and because they are not fighters they are easily intimidated by threats of violence from hostile minorities and fold like a towel to their concessions.

    BUT…you cannot deny their greatness. Their accomplishments over the past 500 years have been astounding, from overthrowing the aristocracy that could arbitrarily kill any common folk they wanted, to ending Human slavery on almost every corner of the planet, creating the Enlightenement which created the pillars of our current scientific and techjnological World, to creating laws of fair trade, establishing individual rights and stable commercial laws that allowed for the Industrial Revolution, etc.

    When I said that conservatives are in denial, it is because they constantly accuse liberals of destroying the West, when in reality what we understand by the “West”, that makes it so different and better from the rest of the World, is *exactly* those liberal values and the liberals that created them in the first place!

    White liberals tend to be the educated and wealthy classes of the West, and they are the ones that created the values and the accomplishments that makes the West so distinctly better than everybody else over the past several centuries.

    White liberals are destroying the West, which is them and that they created in the first place. It is a form of suicide due to pathological altrusim towards minorities that are not willing to reciprocate the kindness of white liberals. In the past, white liberals were protected from their self-destructive tendencies because they lived in societies where the only other people around were white conservatives, people that, due to ethnic reasons, are not willing to prey on white liberals either emotionally or physically. But now they no longer have the privilege of living in societies where the only people that don’t think like them don’t hate them. Now a lot of the people that don’t share their values actually hate them, and are willing to take advantage of them.

    With the current invasion of the West by hostile foreigners, what will happen to the white liberals when they become a tiny minority and can no longer placate the insatiable lust for “goodies” that the hostile foreigners want? White liberals are not violent people. They are not fighters. They hate guns, they acoid physical confrontation, etc. Again, white liberals are the genetic descendants of merchants and scholars. They are really, really bad at this whole war thing. All those pretty white girls from the upper-middle class liberal families of Manhattan and Boston will be ripe for the picking by Ahmet and Samir. It’s not like the upper-middle class white liberals will be able to do a damn thing about it.

    • Replies: @BB753
  138. Dutch Boy says:
    @epebble

    There are people in my family who have done this.

  139. @BB753

    Newton refused to take holy orders and become an Anglican cleric as his fellowship at Trinity College required. Eventually the rule was changed, probably for him personally.

    Newton’s religious views were complex, tending toward Arianism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton

    • Replies: @BB753
  140. @kaganovitch

    pentofingerist

    Pentadactylist.

    If you have a twisted wing finger, that would be helicopterodactyly.

  141. @Joe Paluka

    Gates’ land is held in one of his Foundation entities. They live forever, an abomination that that will be fixed pdq when I am Emperor.

  142. JimDandy says:
    @Unladen Swallow

    Well, them Ohio Amish must be… different. Around here, the brethren don’t have any of that kinda fight in ’em!

    Great movie.

  143. BB753 says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    “BUT…you cannot deny their greatness. ”

    Yeah right, liberals are the descendants of the geniuses who destroyed Western civilization in less than two centuries to give way to UN and plutocratic rule! Way to go!

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
  144. BB753 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Arianism is one of the oldest heresies, and still alive today among unitarians and Jehovah’s witnesses. None of the non-Trinitarian confessions are considered Christian in any way, shape or form. It’s an irony that Newton taught at Trinity College!

  145. epebble says:
    @Alden

    White women either don’t have illegitimate babies or welcome those babies as a source of steady income for the next 18 years

    Share of non-marital births among all women, including whites, is increasing. It is mostly due to many people considering the institution of marriage a bit passé rather than for benefits. Do you have any source that tells what fraction of women plan and give birth for sake of benefits?

    The fraction of nonmarital births is 41% (28% for whites). Hard to believe one in three babies are born to serve as income source to mothers.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-17.pdf

  146. @The Anti-Gnostic

    True story: despite being born in Colombia, Shakira is of Lebanese ancestry and her surname is Mebarak.

  147. While he isn’t explicitly listed as a member of the tribe, the most common representation of a mainstream Amish person in popular television is Dwight Schrute on The Office

  148. Cido says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    I agree. Christianity was great because of Europeans, not Christianity made Europeans great.

  149. @Chris Mallory

    M. Chris Mallory:

    Reality is that which, even after you stop believing it, doesn’t go away Philip K. Dick).

    This concept is very difficult for USians and other AUSUKS to understand.

  150. @BB753

    BB753, you forgot the scare quotes around the word genius.

  151. JimDandy says:
    @middle-aged vet

    Well, sure, in my hometown of Chicago a couple 11-year-old carjackers armed with automatic pistols would make short work of them.

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