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From Radio New Zealand:

Commission pans attempts to close Māori, Pacific achievement gap

11:16 am on 29 November 2021
John Gerritsen, Reporter

The Tertiary Education Commission says hundreds of initiatives aimed at improving Māori and Pacific students’ tertiary education pass rates are poorly-targeted distractions that are not working.

In a briefing to Education Minister Chris Hipkins the commission said gaps in Māori and Pacific students’ achievement would persist unless universities and other institutions adopted a system-wide approach to equity that the commission had developed and tested.

“If the sector keeps doing what it has been doing, there will be no to little change in Māori and Pacific tertiary achievement,” the briefing said.

“There have been hundreds of equity focused interventions across the tertiary education system to support under-served learners, with mixed results. Pilot projects come and go, but the necessary system level change to achieve parity of participation and achievement remains elusive. In many ways, these well-intentioned interventions have been a distraction from a focus on system-wide approaches.”

The briefing published on the commission’s website said the biggest equity gap was in bachelors degrees where less than half of Māori and Pacific learners completed their qualifications in six years compared with more than 62 percent of other learners.

It said the 17 percentage point gap had barely changed in the past six years.

That’s actually not that bad of a gap: 62% of white and East Asian students in New Zealand graduate from college or something like college (“tertiary education”) vs. 45% of Polynesians.

Polynesians only got to places like extraordinarily remote New Zealand by being the world’s best oceanic sailors and wayfinders before the 15th Century Portuguese.

If your country needs an underachieving minority, Maoris are by no means the worst choice.

Granted, as shown by this hit 1994 New Zealand movie that launched part-Maori Cliff Curtis to a Hollywood career playing scary Arabs and Latinos, their descendants have problems with drink and domestic violence (also diabetes, but that’s not as cinematic of a shortcoming):

But the New Zealand Establishment still has hopes for its Maoris and Islander immigrants, whereas the Australian Establishment appears to have quietly given up on its genuine Aborigines and has turned instead to celebrating 15/16th white individuals as its First Aboriginal Theoretical Physicist or whatever while bringing the hammer of the law down upon any journalist who points out that they are basically white.

The commission said it wanted institutions to introduce a “learner success” system called Ōritetanga [“Equality” in Maori] that it had tested with some institutions.

“Tested” does not appear to mean “raised test scores in a random controlled trial” but instead something like “gone through the motions.”

I could imagine effective interventions with 18 year old Maori guys like, say:

You should come to my church this Sunday. A lot of pretty girls are there.

Then this Sunday’s sermon is “Girls Don’t Like It When You Get Drunk” and the Sunday after that, the sermon is “Girls Don’t Like It When You Punch Them, And If You Do, You Have to Go to Jail, Where There Are No Girls.” But, I doubt that’s what Ōritetanga is about.

It said the framework required whole-of-system changes to focus on the needs of their students at every level.

In other words, while, sure, all these hundreds of smaller experiments haven’t worked much, all we have to do is bet the country on one giant experiment.

… “This will be the first higher education programme of its kind at a national level. There is an opportunity to lead the world in delivering an education system that truly works for all our learners and to realise system-wide equity in New Zealand,” the document said.

 
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  1. The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Our popular culture and entertainment industry have been a significantly negative influence since at least the 1960s, probably much earlier than that. It has been one of the driving forces for globalization and destroying local customs and traditions.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @AnotherDad
    @Achmed E. Newman


    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?
     
    American republicanism and "can do" practicality, science+tech were generally positive elements in helping people rise out of the Malthusian trap (ex. the Green Revolution) and encouraging the move toward better governance/institutions.

    But i'm with Barnard. 1990 is only arguable in terms of the Cold War. But America has had a negative influence on the world since the rise of minoritarianism here. It's export to the rest of the West and elsewhere has been an utter disaster for civilization. 1960 is a reasonable pivot date.

    Now our embassies fly the fag flag. 'nuf said.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

  2. Maori prevalence of functional MAOA receptor polymorphism (“warrior gene”)
    is at Bantu levels (actually the only comparable population).

    Lasciate ogni speranza.

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @nokangaroos

    Until the white people showed up, the Maori idea of a good time was killing the neighboring tribe with clubs and spears and eating them. Then when the whites came, their idea shifted to killing the neighboring tribe with muskets.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

    , @odin
    @nokangaroos


    Maori prevalence of functional MAOA receptor polymorphism (“warrior gene”)
    is at Bantu levels
     
    Don't really grasp this but it sounds bad. Citation?
  3. @Achmed E. Newman
    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?

    Replies: @Barnard, @AnotherDad

    Our popular culture and entertainment industry have been a significantly negative influence since at least the 1960s, probably much earlier than that. It has been one of the driving forces for globalization and destroying local customs and traditions.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Barnard

    Indeed. It's no wonder the world thinks us degenerates when they see two 40 something women twerking at the Super Bowl half time show.

    I am not at all a prude, but I thought it vulgar and disgusting. Don't get me started on TV.

    Replies: @Barnard

  4. You should come to my church this Sunday. A lot of pretty girls are there.

    Decades ago when I lived in Bermuda, a local guy explained to me that was the main reason why some young men enthusiastically attended churches, not so much seeking forgiveness for sins, but looking for opportunities to sample the pleasures of the flesh.

    Of course the real horndogs were the guys who obtained holy orders so that they could seduce the choir girls at midweek choir practice.

    • LOL: Kronos
  5. What do the Māori say about what happened on the Chatham Islands? Their “warrior” culture made them think it was just fine to murder and enslave a tribe of pacifists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

    Māori settlement

    [MORE]

    On 19 November and 5 December 1835, about 900 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama previously resident in Te Whanganui-A-Tara (Wellington) and led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. The first mate of the ship had been ‘kidnapped and threatened with death’ unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board. The group, which included men, women and children, brought with them 78 tonnes of seed potato, 20 pigs and seven large canoes called waka.[33]

    The incoming Māori were received and initially cared for by the local Moriori. Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. When it became clear that the visitors intended to stay, the Moriori withdrew to their marae at te Awapatiki. There, after holding a hui (consultation) to debate what to do about the Māori settlers, the Moriori decided to keep with their policy of non-aggression.

    Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama in turn saw the meeting as a precursor to warfare on the part of Moriori and responded. The Māori attacked and in the ensuing action killed over 260 Moriori. A Moriori survivor recalled: “[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep… [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children – indiscriminately”.[34] A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: “We took possession … in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom.”[35]

    After the killings, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, or to have children with each other. Māori kept Moriori slaves until 1863, following a proclamation by the resident magistrate.[4] Many Moriori women had children by their Māori masters. A number of Moriori women eventually married either Māori or European men. Some were taken away from the Chathams and never returned. Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population.[33]

    • Thanks: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Calvin Hobbes

    That story may be one of the best concise illustrations of the dangers of illegal immigration I have ever read.

    , @Curmudgeon
    @Calvin Hobbes

    As I have posted before, by their own admission, there were 'White" people living in NewZealand when the Maori arrived about 800 years ago. They were "Red Heads" and "white haired elves".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBFpGayPATs
    The Maori annihilated the elves, and bred the Red Heads. One remnant Red Head had her DNA traced back to what is now southern Iran and through South America on to New Zealand.
    Are the "red heads" of Easter Island a stopping point? As Thor Heyerdahl noted, it was easier to sail from South America to Easter Island than Easter Island to South America.

    , @jay ritchie
    @Calvin Hobbes

    I remember being interested in the Moriori years ago and various stories about their background. I found a photo recent photo of some Moriori:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018735038/setting-aside-the-moriori-myth

  6. I see they also imported the idea of using six years instead of four in their completion statistics. Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @Anon

    It may be a statistical stunt to make the gap smaller. Possibly, if you look at the graduation rate in four years instead of six it might be, for example, 55% of Whites versus 22% of Māoris graduate in four years. There are lots of ways to obscure truths with stats. You would have to have the raw data to be sure.

    , @I. Racist
    @Anon

    At NZ universities, a bachelor's degree typically takes three years. It causes some difficulties for kiwis seeking jobs in the US, where they are seen as sub-standard.

    , @Paul Mendez
    @Anon


    Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?
     
    Fewer and fewer Americans graduate in four years anymore.

    Many young people start college out of high school, drop out after a year or two for financial reasons or because they’re pregnant or failing, work a menial job for a while, take some vocational courses to gain work skills they realize they lack, eventually understand they’re not going anywhere without a degree and take some community college classes, then find a name-brand college that will give them credits for classes they’ve already taken and “life experience,” and finally graduate.

    Replies: @Moses

  7. @Barnard
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Our popular culture and entertainment industry have been a significantly negative influence since at least the 1960s, probably much earlier than that. It has been one of the driving forces for globalization and destroying local customs and traditions.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Indeed. It’s no wonder the world thinks us degenerates when they see two 40 something women twerking at the Super Bowl half time show.

    I am not at all a prude, but I thought it vulgar and disgusting. Don’t get me started on TV.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Jim Don Bob

    Just look at how much better off culturally the former Soviet bloc countries are in Eastern Europe than the Western European countries. Lack of American pop culture influence for decades had to help in that regard. At this point, why would any country want our entertainment industry and and hedonistic consumer culture influencing their people?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  8. According to Wikipedia, Maoris comprise 16% of NZ’s population but 51% of its prison population.

  9. “That’s actually not that bad of a gap: 62% of white and East Asian students in New Zealand graduate from college or something like college (“tertiary education”) vs. 45% of Polynesians.”

    I imagine the often hostile environment selected for smarter humans over the centuries much like the environments of northern Europe did.

    Maori is another one of these groups who are starting to be worshiped as noble savages and who’s culture of screaming in each other faces at weddings is celebrated as something like, really awesome, man. I have nothing against them, but the fatigue I have from having to hear about all these other great cultures who are so really really great that they have to seek out US and Western prosperity and insist upon it – really really insistfully – to the indigenous people there has grown beyond old.

    • Agree: Old Prude, mc23
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Mike Tre


    I have nothing against them, but the fatigue I have from having to hear about all these other great cultures who are so really really great that they have to seek out US and Western prosperity and insist upon it – really really insistfully – to the indigenous people there has grown beyond old.
     
    This. Revealed preference. You're so great, great, great ... that you have to come to the West?

    Seriously Western Christendom so thoroughly thrashed every other culture in it's golden run that it's a complete joke. And while the Chinese, Indians, Persians and of course the Eastern Christians have interesting complex cultures and some interesting achievements, there's a bunch of cultures that haven't produced anything of particular note. But we're supposed to pretend they are great and their problem is ... us.

    It's pathetic.
  10. I could imagine effective interventions with 18 year old Maori guys like, say:

    Girls used to have this scam going in the West with all men. But they gave it up for the alpha cock carousel. My alpha cock is aging, so I’m not benefiting so much anymore. I hope they’re happy with the memories.

    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
    @Chrisnonymous

    Chris:

    Welcome to the soft-on https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2021-05.html#03

  11. Maori are 15% of NZ population according to a poster here last year. Somehow I think this 15% includes a lot of semi-Maori and Maori scam artists who have a great, great granddad Maori. Anyways, we know that NZ has the worst possible CovidX response, with Australia right behind them. Now we have Austria that want to beat them by forcing all to get vaccinated. With the spike vaxxxxx you cannot relax. You can fret and brow furrow or find a hole to burrow. While wanna be elites feed the know nothing CCP_Beast. Your personal solution is take D3 and see. Get your levels up to 70 or at least 50. This is ng/ml.
    5000-10000 D3 iu per day and the CCP_Beast_Covid_xyz you will slay.

    Do Maori get casinos in NZ? Not that I know of. Though the AI racists that run Google these days say the Maori and Polynesian imports gamble more that the non-vibrant whites who made NZ what it is. A developed first world nation, Covid crazed, female satrap run, Globalist outpost. A Globalist test case, to see how much authoritarian, tyrannical Covid-ization hypochondria the NZers will submit to.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  12. @nokangaroos
    Maori prevalence of functional MAOA receptor polymorphism ("warrior gene")
    is at Bantu levels (actually the only comparable population).

    Lasciate ogni speranza.

    Replies: @Jack D, @odin

    Until the white people showed up, the Maori idea of a good time was killing the neighboring tribe with clubs and spears and eating them. Then when the whites came, their idea shifted to killing the neighboring tribe with muskets.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes
  13. Pilot projects come and go, but the necessary system level change to achieve parity of participation and achievement remains elusive.

    “System-level” = top-down

    (Where is their hyphen? These are teachers!)

  14. The only thing that separates Maori from Zulu levels of crime is 150 years of European genes.

    Maori women were not entirely repulsive, unlike say Bantu tribes in Nigeria and Sierra Leone and Zulus in Natal.

    As a result, most modern Maori have 50% or higher European contributions, mostly British but a non-insignificant Irish.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @magilla


    The only thing that separates Maori from Zulu levels of crime is 150 years of European genes.
     
    Do you have links to pre-1870 crime data from these jurisdiction?
  15. It’s only bad American habits that spread, never good ones.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @dearieme


    It’s only bad American habits that spread, never good ones.
     
    Exactly. It took over a hundred years for news of the Zenger* trial to reach London. Disney and hip-hop are streamed instantaneously. Decimal currency is everywhere now.

    We're keeping the traditional units of measurements and right to bear arms warm for whenever the rest of the Anglosphere is ready to repatriate them.



    *You could say Andrew Hamilton, who argued the case, is more important a Founding Father than is Alexander.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  16. @Achmed E. Newman
    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?

    Replies: @Barnard, @AnotherDad

    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?

    American republicanism and “can do” practicality, science+tech were generally positive elements in helping people rise out of the Malthusian trap (ex. the Green Revolution) and encouraging the move toward better governance/institutions.

    But i’m with Barnard. 1990 is only arguable in terms of the Cold War. But America has had a negative influence on the world since the rise of minoritarianism here. It’s export to the rest of the West and elsewhere has been an utter disaster for civilization. 1960 is a reasonable pivot date.

    Now our embassies fly the fag flag. ‘nuf said.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    This is what you hear from eastern Europeans. They rebelled against Communism because they wanted to be like America circa 1990. They do NOT want all the craziness that has overtaken the western world since then.

    Replies: @Goddard

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @AnotherDad

    I was about to type 1965 in there, as a matter of fact. It would be the case that American culture from before that time would have been a great import for any decent country. However, I was thinking of ALL aspects of American society. As Anonymous #172 replied, after 1990, what was there to want to emulate?

  17. Always the missionary, eh, Steve.

  18. @Calvin Hobbes
    What do the Māori say about what happened on the Chatham Islands? Their “warrior” culture made them think it was just fine to murder and enslave a tribe of pacifists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

    Māori settlement

    On 19 November and 5 December 1835, about 900 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama previously resident in Te Whanganui-A-Tara (Wellington) and led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. The first mate of the ship had been 'kidnapped and threatened with death' unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board. The group, which included men, women and children, brought with them 78 tonnes of seed potato, 20 pigs and seven large canoes called waka.[33]

    The incoming Māori were received and initially cared for by the local Moriori. Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. When it became clear that the visitors intended to stay, the Moriori withdrew to their marae at te Awapatiki. There, after holding a hui (consultation) to debate what to do about the Māori settlers, the Moriori decided to keep with their policy of non-aggression.

    Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama in turn saw the meeting as a precursor to warfare on the part of Moriori and responded. The Māori attacked and in the ensuing action killed over 260 Moriori. A Moriori survivor recalled: "[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children – indiscriminately".[34] A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: "We took possession ... in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom."[35]

    After the killings, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, or to have children with each other. Māori kept Moriori slaves until 1863, following a proclamation by the resident magistrate.[4] Many Moriori women had children by their Māori masters. A number of Moriori women eventually married either Māori or European men. Some were taken away from the Chathams and never returned. Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population.[33]

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Curmudgeon, @jay ritchie

    That story may be one of the best concise illustrations of the dangers of illegal immigration I have ever read.

  19. Remember back in the good ole’ days when Yankees where just horrid, HORRID White people?

  20. “…whereas the Australian Establishment appears to have quietly given up on its genuine Aborigines and has turned instead to celebrating 15/16th white individuals as its First Aboriginal Theoretical Physicist or whatever while bringing the hammer of the law down upon any journalist who points out that they are basically white.”

    As an Australian I take pride in our method of faking equality of achievement. The same method can be used for Maoris, feather Indians, black Americans etc. Elizabeth Warren could be the norm rather than an exception, as she is now.

  21. @AnotherDad
    @Achmed E. Newman


    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?
     
    American republicanism and "can do" practicality, science+tech were generally positive elements in helping people rise out of the Malthusian trap (ex. the Green Revolution) and encouraging the move toward better governance/institutions.

    But i'm with Barnard. 1990 is only arguable in terms of the Cold War. But America has had a negative influence on the world since the rise of minoritarianism here. It's export to the rest of the West and elsewhere has been an utter disaster for civilization. 1960 is a reasonable pivot date.

    Now our embassies fly the fag flag. 'nuf said.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

    This is what you hear from eastern Europeans. They rebelled against Communism because they wanted to be like America circa 1990. They do NOT want all the craziness that has overtaken the western world since then.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman, Escher
    • Replies: @Goddard
    @Anonymous

    Had anyone in 1990 told me that in 2021 we'd be where we are now, I wouldn't have believed him. So negative a scenario would have seemed too unlikely.

  22. The Maori men were lifting engine blocks and lifting all kinds of weight in that movie as I recall.

    That brings up Clint Eastwood saying that he liked lifting weights because it felt good afterwards and Mr. Eastwood also said he very very much enjoyed drinking beer and from personal experience I can say that beer drinking after lifting weights or hiking or biking is good stuff indeed.

    I also recall from the Maori movie that they would batter the crud out of each other at the drop of a hat and they looked fearsome. Linebacker or strong safety material or line for the bigger Maoris.

    Brando could have pulled off acting like a Maori, but not Sam Neill.

    A good indicator that political mayhem of some sort is approaching is the prevalence of younger guys on the internet making fun of David French’s man boobs and other physical symbols of weakness and softness. These guys suggest that just looking at a picture of David French gives them instant motivation to hit the weights. A Civil War II writer once suggested that a good indicator of future political unrest is young men getting in good shape to be in the best shape they can be when all Hell breaks loose.

    The David French man boobs meter at MIT is running high at the moment and the MIT David French man boob meter is the most accurate and predictive.

  23. @AnotherDad
    @Achmed E. Newman


    The Americanization of Everywhere, New Zealand Edition

    That used to be a good thing, till, when 1990, maybe 2000?
     
    American republicanism and "can do" practicality, science+tech were generally positive elements in helping people rise out of the Malthusian trap (ex. the Green Revolution) and encouraging the move toward better governance/institutions.

    But i'm with Barnard. 1990 is only arguable in terms of the Cold War. But America has had a negative influence on the world since the rise of minoritarianism here. It's export to the rest of the West and elsewhere has been an utter disaster for civilization. 1960 is a reasonable pivot date.

    Now our embassies fly the fag flag. 'nuf said.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

    I was about to type 1965 in there, as a matter of fact. It would be the case that American culture from before that time would have been a great import for any decent country. However, I was thinking of ALL aspects of American society. As Anonymous #172 replied, after 1990, what was there to want to emulate?

  24. @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    This is what you hear from eastern Europeans. They rebelled against Communism because they wanted to be like America circa 1990. They do NOT want all the craziness that has overtaken the western world since then.

    Replies: @Goddard

    Had anyone in 1990 told me that in 2021 we’d be where we are now, I wouldn’t have believed him. So negative a scenario would have seemed too unlikely.

    • Agree: Paul Mendez
  25. No mention of IQ? There’s no education system that can take a (very very) slow learner, like Forrest Gump, and make him do college level academic work. (It was hard enough to show him faking running fast, but that was plausible).

    I suggest trying to pay poor students, daily/weekly, for good behavior and reading books with book reviews.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Tom Grey

    Easier said than done.

    https://youtu.be/3v-Pn4W-g48

  26. @Jim Don Bob
    @Barnard

    Indeed. It's no wonder the world thinks us degenerates when they see two 40 something women twerking at the Super Bowl half time show.

    I am not at all a prude, but I thought it vulgar and disgusting. Don't get me started on TV.

    Replies: @Barnard

    Just look at how much better off culturally the former Soviet bloc countries are in Eastern Europe than the Western European countries. Lack of American pop culture influence for decades had to help in that regard. At this point, why would any country want our entertainment industry and and hedonistic consumer culture influencing their people?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Barnard

    "how much better off culturally the former Soviet bloc countries are in Eastern Europe than the Western European countries. Lack of American pop culture influence for decades had to help in that regard"

    I think it's mostly lack of BIPOCs. But don't worry, the EU and the Tribe are working day and night to change that.

  27. @Chrisnonymous

    I could imagine effective interventions with 18 year old Maori guys like, say:
     
    Girls used to have this scam going in the West with all men. But they gave it up for the alpha cock carousel. My alpha cock is aging, so I'm not benefiting so much anymore. I hope they're happy with the memories.

    Replies: @John Derbyshire

  28. @magilla
    The only thing that separates Maori from Zulu levels of crime is 150 years of European genes.

    Maori women were not entirely repulsive, unlike say Bantu tribes in Nigeria and Sierra Leone and Zulus in Natal.

    As a result, most modern Maori have 50% or higher European contributions, mostly British but a non-insignificant Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    • Replies: @mc23
    @Jack D

    Was just reading this- The City of the Saints, and Across the Rocky Mountains to California by Sir Richard F.Burton

    ... women peeped out of the log huts. They were probably not charming, but, next to a sea voyage, a desert march is the finest cosmetic ever invented. We looked upon each as if

    “Her face was like the Milky Way i’ the sky,
    A meeting of gentle lights without a name.

    , @Calvin Hobbes
    @Jack D

    Thanks, Jack.

    Here’s a page linked to on the page you linked to:

    Major General Horatio Gordon Robley with his collection of tattooed Maori heads, 1895

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/robley-maori-tattooed-heads-1895/

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    😳 Those women are two-baggers for sure


    “I knew a girl so ugly that she was known as a two-bagger. That’s when you put a bag over your head in case the bag over her head breaks.” — Rodney Dangerfield
     
    , @Mike Tre
    @Jack D

    Some of them seem to have distinctly Japanese features, no? Almost all of them look like men.

    , @Paul Mendez
    @Jack D


    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently
     
    Heck, horny sailors saw manatees and narwhals, and imagined mermaids.
  29. @Calvin Hobbes
    What do the Māori say about what happened on the Chatham Islands? Their “warrior” culture made them think it was just fine to murder and enslave a tribe of pacifists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

    Māori settlement

    On 19 November and 5 December 1835, about 900 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama previously resident in Te Whanganui-A-Tara (Wellington) and led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. The first mate of the ship had been 'kidnapped and threatened with death' unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board. The group, which included men, women and children, brought with them 78 tonnes of seed potato, 20 pigs and seven large canoes called waka.[33]

    The incoming Māori were received and initially cared for by the local Moriori. Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. When it became clear that the visitors intended to stay, the Moriori withdrew to their marae at te Awapatiki. There, after holding a hui (consultation) to debate what to do about the Māori settlers, the Moriori decided to keep with their policy of non-aggression.

    Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama in turn saw the meeting as a precursor to warfare on the part of Moriori and responded. The Māori attacked and in the ensuing action killed over 260 Moriori. A Moriori survivor recalled: "[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children – indiscriminately".[34] A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: "We took possession ... in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom."[35]

    After the killings, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, or to have children with each other. Māori kept Moriori slaves until 1863, following a proclamation by the resident magistrate.[4] Many Moriori women had children by their Māori masters. A number of Moriori women eventually married either Māori or European men. Some were taken away from the Chathams and never returned. Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population.[33]

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Curmudgeon, @jay ritchie

    As I have posted before, by their own admission, there were ‘White” people living in NewZealand when the Maori arrived about 800 years ago. They were “Red Heads” and “white haired elves”.

    The Maori annihilated the elves, and bred the Red Heads. One remnant Red Head had her DNA traced back to what is now southern Iran and through South America on to New Zealand.
    Are the “red heads” of Easter Island a stopping point? As Thor Heyerdahl noted, it was easier to sail from South America to Easter Island than Easter Island to South America.

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes
  30. It said the framework required whole-of-system changes to focus on the needs of their students at every level.

    If any wokists want to go to NZ and not be ugly Americans,”Whole-of-system” is the Antipodal woke word for “structural”.

  31. @Calvin Hobbes
    What do the Māori say about what happened on the Chatham Islands? Their “warrior” culture made them think it was just fine to murder and enslave a tribe of pacifists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

    Māori settlement

    On 19 November and 5 December 1835, about 900 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama previously resident in Te Whanganui-A-Tara (Wellington) and led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. The first mate of the ship had been 'kidnapped and threatened with death' unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board. The group, which included men, women and children, brought with them 78 tonnes of seed potato, 20 pigs and seven large canoes called waka.[33]

    The incoming Māori were received and initially cared for by the local Moriori. Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. When it became clear that the visitors intended to stay, the Moriori withdrew to their marae at te Awapatiki. There, after holding a hui (consultation) to debate what to do about the Māori settlers, the Moriori decided to keep with their policy of non-aggression.

    Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama in turn saw the meeting as a precursor to warfare on the part of Moriori and responded. The Māori attacked and in the ensuing action killed over 260 Moriori. A Moriori survivor recalled: "[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children – indiscriminately".[34] A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: "We took possession ... in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom."[35]

    After the killings, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, or to have children with each other. Māori kept Moriori slaves until 1863, following a proclamation by the resident magistrate.[4] Many Moriori women had children by their Māori masters. A number of Moriori women eventually married either Māori or European men. Some were taken away from the Chathams and never returned. Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population.[33]

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Curmudgeon, @jay ritchie

    I remember being interested in the Moriori years ago and various stories about their background. I found a photo recent photo of some Moriori:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018735038/setting-aside-the-moriori-myth

  32. @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    Was just reading this- The City of the Saints, and Across the Rocky Mountains to California by Sir Richard F.Burton

    … women peeped out of the log huts. They were probably not charming, but, next to a sea voyage, a desert march is the finest cosmetic ever invented. We looked upon each as if

    “Her face was like the Milky Way i’ the sky,
    A meeting of gentle lights without a name.”

  33. One thing New Zealand has going for it is a single aboriginal language. How many syllables do you suppose are employed in pronouncing the six vowels and two consonants of Aotearoa?

    • Replies: @Foreign Expert
    @John Mansfield


    How many syllables do you suppose are employed in pronouncing the six vowels and two consonants of Aotearoa?
     
    Six. But many languages do not have “syllables “ in the English sense. For example the Japanese word “shimbun” (newspaper) has four “syllables “ even though an English speaker would process it as two.
  34. @Anon
    I see they also imported the idea of using six years instead of four in their completion statistics. Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?

    Replies: @Alfa158, @I. Racist, @Paul Mendez

    It may be a statistical stunt to make the gap smaller. Possibly, if you look at the graduation rate in four years instead of six it might be, for example, 55% of Whites versus 22% of Māoris graduate in four years. There are lots of ways to obscure truths with stats. You would have to have the raw data to be sure.

  35. @magilla
    The only thing that separates Maori from Zulu levels of crime is 150 years of European genes.

    Maori women were not entirely repulsive, unlike say Bantu tribes in Nigeria and Sierra Leone and Zulus in Natal.

    As a result, most modern Maori have 50% or higher European contributions, mostly British but a non-insignificant Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    The only thing that separates Maori from Zulu levels of crime is 150 years of European genes.

    Do you have links to pre-1870 crime data from these jurisdiction?

  36. @Mike Tre
    "That’s actually not that bad of a gap: 62% of white and East Asian students in New Zealand graduate from college or something like college (“tertiary education”) vs. 45% of Polynesians."

    I imagine the often hostile environment selected for smarter humans over the centuries much like the environments of northern Europe did.

    Maori is another one of these groups who are starting to be worshiped as noble savages and who's culture of screaming in each other faces at weddings is celebrated as something like, really awesome, man. I have nothing against them, but the fatigue I have from having to hear about all these other great cultures who are so really really great that they have to seek out US and Western prosperity and insist upon it - really really insistfully - to the indigenous people there has grown beyond old.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I have nothing against them, but the fatigue I have from having to hear about all these other great cultures who are so really really great that they have to seek out US and Western prosperity and insist upon it – really really insistfully – to the indigenous people there has grown beyond old.

    This. Revealed preference. You’re so great, great, great … that you have to come to the West?

    Seriously Western Christendom so thoroughly thrashed every other culture in it’s golden run that it’s a complete joke. And while the Chinese, Indians, Persians and of course the Eastern Christians have interesting complex cultures and some interesting achievements, there’s a bunch of cultures that haven’t produced anything of particular note. But we’re supposed to pretend they are great and their problem is … us.

    It’s pathetic.

    • Agree: Sick of Orcs
  37. @dearieme
    It's only bad American habits that spread, never good ones.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It’s only bad American habits that spread, never good ones.

    Exactly. It took over a hundred years for news of the Zenger* trial to reach London. Disney and hip-hop are streamed instantaneously. Decimal currency is everywhere now.

    We’re keeping the traditional units of measurements and right to bear arms warm for whenever the rest of the Anglosphere is ready to repatriate them.

    *You could say Andrew Hamilton, who argued the case, is more important a Founding Father than is Alexander.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Reg Cæsar


    We’re keeping the traditional units of measurements
     
    Math is really, REALLY hard north of the border I hear.

    https://youtu.be/QxXeq_dAyr0?t=2448

    [40:48]

  38. O/T. As soon as I saw the mug shot of the Oxford, Michigan high school shooter, I could see he was a troubled boy. But what might have pushed him into the abyss? Curious for clues, I went to their H.S. website. Four photos rotate on the masthead. One is a gaggle smiling beautiful girls in cool shirts. The second one is of the football team. The thing high school boys fear most is being ostracized, being out of it, being laughed at. I drilled a little deeper, and found that the girls’ varsity cheerleading squad has three coaches. Then I went to the mastheads of a few other high schools, and these emphasized a nerdier ethos. (A thanksgiving food drive!) My suspicion (from afar and based on slight evidence) is that there was a dominant ethos that was not sufficiently tolerant and supportive of a troubled, uncool boy. Michael Moriarty says, for the last line of that great baseball movie, “Bang the Drum Slowly”: “From here on out, I rag nobody.”

  39. @Reg Cæsar
    @dearieme


    It’s only bad American habits that spread, never good ones.
     
    Exactly. It took over a hundred years for news of the Zenger* trial to reach London. Disney and hip-hop are streamed instantaneously. Decimal currency is everywhere now.

    We're keeping the traditional units of measurements and right to bear arms warm for whenever the rest of the Anglosphere is ready to repatriate them.



    *You could say Andrew Hamilton, who argued the case, is more important a Founding Father than is Alexander.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    We’re keeping the traditional units of measurements

    Math is really, REALLY hard north of the border I hear.

    [40:48]

  40. Back when I visited New Zealand in 2013, their libraries were using psychological warfare against loitering hoodlums. They were blasting classical music to humanely encourage them to move. Imagine it, using the classical arts to strike fear and terror into the hearts and small minds of the New Zealand underclass (mainly Maori.) If components of the Enlightenment burns their eyes and deafens their ears how can you possibly close the gap?

    https://thumbnailer.digitalnz.org/?resize=664%3E&src=https%3A%2F%2Fndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz%2FNLNZStreamGate%2Fget%3Fdps_pid%3DIE24672079&

  41. @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    Thanks, Jack.

    Here’s a page linked to on the page you linked to:

    Major General Horatio Gordon Robley with his collection of tattooed Maori heads, 1895

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/robley-maori-tattooed-heads-1895/

  42. @Tom Grey
    No mention of IQ? There's no education system that can take a (very very) slow learner, like Forrest Gump, and make him do college level academic work. (It was hard enough to show him faking running fast, but that was plausible).

    I suggest trying to pay poor students, daily/weekly, for good behavior and reading books with book reviews.

    Replies: @Kronos

    Easier said than done.

  43. @Anon
    I see they also imported the idea of using six years instead of four in their completion statistics. Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?

    Replies: @Alfa158, @I. Racist, @Paul Mendez

    At NZ universities, a bachelor’s degree typically takes three years. It causes some difficulties for kiwis seeking jobs in the US, where they are seen as sub-standard.

  44. @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    😳 Those women are two-baggers for sure

    “I knew a girl so ugly that she was known as a two-bagger. That’s when you put a bag over your head in case the bag over her head breaks.” — Rodney Dangerfield

  45. Anon[311] • Disclaimer says:

    “In other words, while, sure, all these hundreds of smaller experiments haven’t worked much, all we have to do is bet the country on one giant experiment.”

    Well improving their standard of living would help…unlike here where it turns out we don’t bother: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfOutrageCulture/comments/op96aj/i_need_to_take_a_minute_to_explain_critical_race/

  46. How many times, and for how many levels (tertiary, quarternary, what?), must NZ taxpayers pony up to teach young people the 3Rs? Public education is everywhere, and always, a catastrophe.

  47. NZ is forcing Maori people out of all society with their shiny new Covid Passport. Maori don’t tend to see white people bearing needles as necessarily having their best interests at heart so don’t have high vax rates.
    Maori that can’t legally step foot on a higher education campus may graduate at lower rates…

  48. @Barnard
    @Jim Don Bob

    Just look at how much better off culturally the former Soviet bloc countries are in Eastern Europe than the Western European countries. Lack of American pop culture influence for decades had to help in that regard. At this point, why would any country want our entertainment industry and and hedonistic consumer culture influencing their people?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “how much better off culturally the former Soviet bloc countries are in Eastern Europe than the Western European countries. Lack of American pop culture influence for decades had to help in that regard”

    I think it’s mostly lack of BIPOCs. But don’t worry, the EU and the Tribe are working day and night to change that.

  49. Jacinda Horsemouth should pour money into rugby colleges right across NZ where all they learn is the fine art of rugby. If you’re on a good thing then stick to it.

  50. Little known fact that many Moaris are a soupçon English. For their great, great, great, great, great grandfathers ate Captain Cook. Anyway, it’s our fault, one way or another.

  51. @John Mansfield
    One thing New Zealand has going for it is a single aboriginal language. How many syllables do you suppose are employed in pronouncing the six vowels and two consonants of Aotearoa?

    Replies: @Foreign Expert

    How many syllables do you suppose are employed in pronouncing the six vowels and two consonants of Aotearoa?

    Six. But many languages do not have “syllables “ in the English sense. For example the Japanese word “shimbun” (newspaper) has four “syllables “ even though an English speaker would process it as two.

  52. @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    Some of them seem to have distinctly Japanese features, no? Almost all of them look like men.

  53. @nokangaroos
    Maori prevalence of functional MAOA receptor polymorphism ("warrior gene")
    is at Bantu levels (actually the only comparable population).

    Lasciate ogni speranza.

    Replies: @Jack D, @odin

    Maori prevalence of functional MAOA receptor polymorphism (“warrior gene”)
    is at Bantu levels

    Don’t really grasp this but it sounds bad. Citation?

  54. @Anon
    I see they also imported the idea of using six years instead of four in their completion statistics. Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?

    Replies: @Alfa158, @I. Racist, @Paul Mendez

    Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?

    Fewer and fewer Americans graduate in four years anymore.

    Many young people start college out of high school, drop out after a year or two for financial reasons or because they’re pregnant or failing, work a menial job for a while, take some vocational courses to gain work skills they realize they lack, eventually understand they’re not going anywhere without a degree and take some community college classes, then find a name-brand college that will give them credits for classes they’ve already taken and “life experience,” and finally graduate.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @Paul Mendez


    Many young people start college out of high school, drop out after a year or two for financial reasons or because they’re pregnant or failing, work a menial job for a while, take some vocational courses to gain work skills they realize they lack, eventually understand they’re not going anywhere without a degree and take some community college classes, then find a name-brand college that will give them credits for classes they’ve already taken and “life experience,” and finally graduate.
     
    Lol you just described my old neighbor’s kids, exactly. I just thought they were screwups. Didn’t know this meandering lackadaisical path now a thing.
  55. @Jack D
    @magilla

    The chin tattoos did not add to their appeal.

    Here is a page of vintage photos of Maori women. I would rate most of them somewhere between 0 and 2 on scale of 1 to 10.

    https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vintage-maori-women-tattoos-ta-moko/

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently.

    Replies: @mc23, @Calvin Hobbes, @Anonymous, @Mike Tre, @Paul Mendez

    I suppose if you were a lonely British sailor you might think differently

    Heck, horny sailors saw manatees and narwhals, and imagined mermaids.

  56. @Paul Mendez
    @Anon


    Who are these guys who take six years to finish college?
     
    Fewer and fewer Americans graduate in four years anymore.

    Many young people start college out of high school, drop out after a year or two for financial reasons or because they’re pregnant or failing, work a menial job for a while, take some vocational courses to gain work skills they realize they lack, eventually understand they’re not going anywhere without a degree and take some community college classes, then find a name-brand college that will give them credits for classes they’ve already taken and “life experience,” and finally graduate.

    Replies: @Moses

    Many young people start college out of high school, drop out after a year or two for financial reasons or because they’re pregnant or failing, work a menial job for a while, take some vocational courses to gain work skills they realize they lack, eventually understand they’re not going anywhere without a degree and take some community college classes, then find a name-brand college that will give them credits for classes they’ve already taken and “life experience,” and finally graduate.

    Lol you just described my old neighbor’s kids, exactly. I just thought they were screwups. Didn’t know this meandering lackadaisical path now a thing.

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