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The Alt-Right Is Political Punk Rock
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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

Political Punk Rock
by Steve Sailer
September 07, 2016

… Hillary’s recent speech denouncing the alt-right has raised eyebrows. It was as if in 1976 progressive-rock titans Emerson, Lake & Palmer had released a double album devoted to excoriating this new band nobody had ever heard of before called the Ramones.

If you can remember back four decades, it might strike you that the alt-right phenomenon of 2016 is basically political punk rock: loud, abrasive, hostile, white, back to basics, and fun.

Johnny Ramone was not as talented a musician as Keith Emerson, but a decade after Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper’s he had some timely ideas about how rock should get on track again. …

But it didn’t seem that way to many at the time. The punk rockers struck most nice people then as barbaric.

Which they sort of were. That was the point of picking up an electric guitar: to make a lot of noise.

Even the most deplorable habit of a few on the alt-right—the use of Nazi imagery—has its punk predecessors. The Ramones’ greatest song was “Blitzkrieg Bop.”

Mick Jones’ proto-Clash band was the London SS. Malcolm McLaren handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols.

Why? Because it was offensive. And offensive was enjoyable.

Read the whole thing there.

I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

I’ll leave the evidence for that for another day.

much.

Update: Commenter “gerold” points out:

“The alt-right 2016 is like punk rock 1977: it’s daring, new, socially unacceptable, inevitable, and scaring the crap out of everyone.”

Written by an “alternative” writer with some rock connections, iirc:

http://gotnews.com/analysis-alt-right-woke-altrightmeans/

I actually hadn’t gotten to that part in Michael Stutz’s article (or I would have linked to it) at Charles C. Johnson’s GotNews website, but clearly Mr. Stutz anticipated my main idea and deserves credit for it.

 
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  1. Steve Sailer wrote in 1979 just the same way as he does in 2016!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @5371

    Pretty much.

    Replies: @pyrrhus

    , @Jay Fink
    @5371

    I noticed that too. I liked how in 1979 Steve wrote about how punk shook up the "rock establishment". This means he has had a lifelong fascination with the theme of new movements vs the establishment.

  2. @5371
    Steve Sailer wrote in 1979 just the same way as he does in 2016!

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jay Fink

    Pretty much.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    @Steve Sailer

    Great analogy with the Ramones.....

  3. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    If the Alt Right wants to really scare the s…..t out of the entrenched establishment it must become like the late 19th century-early 20th century labor movement which gave us the wonderfull Chinese Exclusion Act. Samuel Gompers and Dennis Kearney should be the inspiration and role models for the Alt Right.

    Native Born White American racial dispossesion and economic dispossession is a direct consequence of White Liberal Greedy Cheating Class Mega-CEO greed…this should be fundamental focus of Alt Right rage.

  4. A very sound column…

    It may be age or the passage of time, but Joey Ramone’s vocal style and accent in Blitzkrieg Bop sounds close to that of Joe Strummer, though very syncopated.

    Which is confusing, since it was the Ramones who famously encouraged the Clash to just go on stage and play and Blitzkreig Bop precedes the Clash (slightly). And at that time, I used to think there was no resemblance. Maybe it’s just my old person ears.

    Both the column and the music were a treat.

  5. Well, the alt-right exists not simply to make noise and have fun.

    The alt-right exists because, as Johnny Rotten observed in 1976, we live under a “fascist regime” and “there ain’t no future” and the corporate elites are “stupid fools like EMI.”

  6. Not rock, but from our friends in India, a song dedicated to Trump.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Cattle Guard


    Not rock, but from our friends in India, a song dedicated to Trump.
     
    I can't find a translation online, but apparently the song is all positive and admiring.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/have-you-heard-baba-sehgals-latest-song-on-donald-trump-sounds-like-he-loves-him-3004027/
  7. Anonymous [AKA "Sussex Yeoman"] says:

    You definitely stole this from my head Steve! I have been pushing this meme to everyone but as the alt-right are generally much too young to remember punk v prog it hasn’t taken.

    In fact I think the punk/prog analogy is more descriptive of the alt-right/ nrx situation. Hestia SOC are literally progrock fans as far as I can see . I find it hard to take metal fans seriously but each to his own.
    Hestia seems destined to be The Enid, ploughing their own groove impervious to the larger trends.

  8. CBGB on Bowery, where the Ramones played their first shows, closed a few years ago; that whole area, which was pretty scuzzy a few decades ago and was artsy-cool not too long ago, is now surrounded by Frank Gehry-lite towers of ultra-luxury apartments. So for example right now, you can buy a 6.7 million apartment across the street from where the Ramones did their first shows, or 7.9 million around the corner:
    http://m.trulia.com/for_sale/40.72418947015556,40.72609614934246,-73.99321183346962,-73.99120017670845_xy/18_zm/2p_beds/map_v

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Spotted Toad

    The artists/writers/filmmakers/angsters were priced out of Lower East Side by 1990's. King Tut's Wawa Hut, a bar/performance space that could have been called, 'Alt-Right,' is long gone. The whole area is gentrified, thanks to bankster culture - why do rich people always want to hang around the creative types? CBGB's site is now DBGB's, a restaurant. The gentrification is complete, except for the bums and homeless people, who shamelessly keep pan-handling there. But there was nothing like the 70-80's of NYC fun!

    Replies: @Anonymous

  9. So, who just is the ‘Johnny Rotten’ of the alt-right?

    On the same theme, who is the Malcolm McLaren?

    • Replies: @Jed
    @Anonymous

    Milo.

    Replies: @gruff

    , @Lurker
    @Anonymous

    That's (((Malcolm McLaren))). FYI.

  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Basically, punk rock was all about John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) and no one else.

    In a word he was the high priest, ‘philosopher king’, power, glory, sun king, numero uno, originator etc etc etc of the whole ‘movement’ all rolled into one.

    All the rest, New York Dolls, Ramones, Clash etc etc count for jack-shit in the scheme of things. Without that mad Paddy ‘genius’ of Lydon, all of them would have been roundly forgotten by now.

    John Lydon – what an interesting man. Possessed of absolutely no musical talent or ability whatsoever. A poor man’s John Lennon. But, you’ve got to hand it to him. The animal cunning, the instinctive understanding of psychology, the bumptiousness, the sheer tenacity.

    A man who managed to parlay swearing at TV talk show host on prime time TV – remember in 1976 this was appallingly scandalous – into a highly lucrative career, a big house in Malibu, 40 years of straight f*cking about making dischordant noise (PiL) for the masses, and having the last laugh by having his version of ‘God Save the Queen’ st the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympics.

    Gosh, as a successful con-man only the neo-cons or The Economist magazine can possibly compare.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Anonymous

    "Gosh, as a successful con-man only the neo-cons or The Economist magazine can possibly compare.:"

    Really? I think our Asbestos Remover in Chief is definitely a contender.

  11. Trump (-4.5) v. Kid w/ Leukemia.

    “Trump’s offense is spectacularly explosive, but it often leaves his defense tired and wanting. Kid w/ Leukemia doesn’t appear to have much of offense or defense, but has the power of the megaphone behind him which can’t be underestimated. Trump 21, Leukemia Kid 17.”

  12. OT and rejoice!
    Julian Assange: Wikileaks May Start Releasing Hillary Clinton Email Teasers Next Week http://goo.gl/vD4VSJ
    He said this on Sean Hannity show on FoxNews

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called ‘dinosaur’ bands, and relax.

    I can’t say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the ‘quality’ of ‘popular music’ is ‘does it still sound good and vital – like it was made yesterday – 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future’.
    I’m afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are ‘trendy’ at the moment – mainly because of young people – who could not have had a clue about them, ‘getting into them’. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the ‘great seal’ of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial ‘memory hole’.

    • Replies: @Wolf
    @Anonymous

    I would bet a lot more youngsters like those punk bands more than some of the old dinosaur bands, such as the example Steve brought up, Emerson Lake and Palmer, who sound dated to my ears and also to my 20 year old son's ears. He also loves The Ramones and The Clash, along with The Cure and some others.

    ELP regularly used the very latest electronic instruments which were cutting edge at the time, but ran the risk of becoming dated, which Emerson's Moog synthesizer and Palmer's drum synthesizer (or whatever it's called) now do. You never see stuff like this today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6vN9nadqtQ

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Desiderius
    @Anonymous


    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called ‘dinosaur’ bands, and relax.
     
    Uh, dude, that's the point.

    Relaxation unto death is the opposite of what Rock and Roll (originally slang for copulation - i.e. the creation of new life, not the decay of the old) is about.
    , @Daniel Williams
    @Anonymous


    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are ‘trendy’ at the moment – mainly because of young people – who could not have had a clue about them, ‘getting into them’.
     
    Seriously, Gramps? Those damned kids and their Ramones? Everyone member of that band is dead—including one who succumbed to that great killer of young men, prostate cancer.

    Replies: @anon

    , @dr kill
    @Anonymous

    Man, I feel sorry for anyone still listening to Led Zep voluntarily. Come on, man.

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Anonymous

    I agree.

    I'm in my mid 20s and the "dinosaur" 70s prog/classic rock bands sound pretty good to me and always have. Not my favorite type of music, but it gives me pleasant feelings when I hear it on the radio or in the background at a store/restaurant. New Wave evokes the same thing.

    Punk? Meh. Sounds really try-hard and unmusical. It annoyed me when I was watching Stranger Things and their way of showing one of the main teenage characters was "edgy/different" was showing him listening to the Ramones with his little brother.

    Maybe it's where I live or the fact that I'm just a little too old to have parents who listened to punk, but I don't know ANY young people with nostalgia for punk bands.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  14. The late Joe ‘Sandinista’ Strummer left more behind than the proverbial ‘big house in Surrey’. He had a great big country manor house in Surrey.
    His garage contained one the best vintage Bugatti collections ever.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Anonymous

    I've never heard that before, don't believe it. His interests would have been US classic cars I suspect.

    A quick search yields no evidence for his ownership of any Bugatti.

  15. Another analogy is an internet version of “Fight Club.”

  16. Anonymous [AKA "Ggt"] says:

    Don’t forget the original first lines to “Today your love tomorrow the world” were “I’m a nazi baby a nazi yes I am”

  17. The Clash had White Riot. I think they were pretty explicit about being a white identify movement.

    • Replies: @Tex
    @El-Nathan

    "Black man gotta lot of problems
    He don't mind throwing a brick.
    White people go to school
    Where they teach you how to be thick."

    , @Thea
    @El-Nathan

    Mick Jones went on to form Big Audio Dynamite which was antifa and pro - multi cultural Britain.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

  18. The Clash tried to sell leftism, but at least one time I saw them the audience wasn’t buying. They made the mistake of having Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 open for them at the Pier in NYC around 1986, and the rock audience basically chased away the disco/rap act in about 30 seconds. The Pier(which was very short-lived) was the last rock venue I can recall that still sold glass long neck bottle beer. The bottles went airborne, and the Master and his 5 had their set cut very short for their own safety. Amazed no one was hurt. The Clash may not have grasped their American audience by that time was mostly classic rock and heavy metal fans as much as anything else.Their audience wasn’t much different from U2, Judas Priest or the Who(who they opened for at Shea Stadium a few months later). Sadly the Ramones never really had that crossover into classic rock radio airplay until much later in their career. Because for all the tough guy posturing they were a really fun band.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Bugg

    the Clash opened for the Who in 1982 during their biggest final tour....

    I saw the Clash get booed off the stage at JFK stadium in Philadelphia when they attempted to open for The Who, it was my first concert. The crowd was booing and Joe Strummer taunted the audience until the band was booed off the stage. the attendance at JFK was 95,000 for The Who, more people than at Live-Aid 3 years later.

  19. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

    Along those lines, some snips from a 2006 NYT article about the post-punk American hardcore scene:

    How Hard Was Their Core? Looking Back at Anger

    A new documentary, “American Hardcore,” tells the story of Minor Threat and like-minded bands. And it begins with hardcore veterans talking about the guy Mr. MacKaye wouldn’t sing about. Vic Bondi, from Chicago’s Articles of Faith, talks about the genre as a reaction to Ronald Reagan’s “white man order.”

    The film also hints at an underlying anxiety about race. As one former hardcore kid puts it, the genre was one of the few that “felt like it wasn’t totally ripping off black culture,” which might be another way of saying it felt white.

    Mr. MacKaye mentions another out-of-step experience — his years as a white kid in a majority-black school — by way of explaining his song “Guilty of Being White.” It’s an anti-racist song, he says, meaning anti-anti-white: “You blame me for slavery/A hundred years before I was born.”

    Black Flag had a similar song, “White Minority,” which promised, “Gonna be a white minority.” (It was sung by a Latino singer, Ron Reyes, emphasizing the sarcasm.) Hardcore is, among other things, the sound of whiteness under siege, and in an odd way it’s a joyful noise. In the early 80’s, thanks in part to these bands, even white suburban kids could feel like righteous underdogs.

    All those [desecrated] Reagan heads on flyers seem pretty spiteful, but maybe there’s also a hint of envy: tough young white guys paying grudging tribute to a tough old one.

    • Agree: gruff
  20. Don’t punch to the right. Instead of saying “deplorable” (a highly moralistic word), say “edgy” or “provocative.” In a hypothetical future in which you’re in the left wing of politics, you can call Nazi images deplorable. In the current year in which most people don’t see much difference between you and the nazi fetishists, calling them deplorable just comes off as cucked. Leftists never punch left, so why do you punch right?

    • Replies: @iffen
    @AndrewR

    so why do you punch right?

    Because you can't have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.

    Replies: @Oliver Ironside, @AndrewR

  21. Malcolm McLaren ” handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols ” I’d like to see the evidence for this, Mr Steve.
    Despite his name, McLaren was half-Jewish and brought up in a Jewish household. It is widely accepted that once he took over the Sex Pistols, Nazi imagery was toned down and then swiftly eliminated.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Verymuchalive

    Well, the late unlamented Sid Vicious did prominently sport a very explicit German Nazi flag T shirt in the ' Great Rock and Roll Swindle' - a famous sequence from that godawful rubbishy pretentious unwatchable film has Vicious strutting through the Jewish quarter of Paris wearing that T shirt, with the camera showing the tearful shocked faces of elderly Jews - Jews of an age to have witnessed World War 2.
    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.

    Replies: @Lurker

  22. Well Steve, you are in my wheelhouse with this one. I have had the same thought as I recall how much fun it was to piss off the people who could spend all day arguing about the definition of various types of music. They made rock and roll a museum piece. We hated them for it and they deserved to be hated. It was the only thing they ever earned.

  23. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    My very strongest suspicion is that at the Alt Right comming out Party in DC today..”The Rilly Big Shew’ as Ed Sullivan would say….Jared Taylor will proudly announce that Asians are more intelligent than H…White Americans. Jared Taylor….the Cuck of the Alt Right….

    Orville and Nevile Wright were not two legal immigrant Hindu Brothers from Gujarat India…despite what the Broadway hit musical “Hamilton” claims.

    Steve

    Hillary Clinton….prion disease(Yakov-Kreutzfeld disease)?….And we all thought that the DNC had finally got its cannibalism problem under control. Donald Trump will be debating a spongified brain in early October….Or was it the Huma halal meat at night?

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Party was canceled, can't blame them, Jared is a very intimidating presence.

  24. The alt-right has bouyed both Clinton’s presidential bid as well as pundit careers. Salon’s latest outrage :

  25. Marcotte is throwing down the gauntlet over inappropriate humor :

  26. If Trump wrote the first Ramones album…..

    1. Blitzkrieg Bop (No change. You don’t mess with the classics.)
    2. Beat on the Blacks
    3. Hillary is a Hag
    4. I Wanna Be Your God-Emperor
    5. Chain Saw (one of the tools I’ll use to build The Wall)
    6. Now I Wanna Make America Great Again
    7. I Don’t Wanna Start a Land War with Russia
    8. Loudmouth (No change, just a dedication to Megyn Kelly, Lyin’ Hillary and that fat-disgusting-pig Rosie O’Donnell in the liner notes.)
    9. Havana Affair w/ an Eastern-European Super Model
    10. Listen to My 10-Point Plan on Immigration Reform
    11. (I own all the property on) 53rd & 3rd
    12. Let’s (not) Dance (around the issue of abolishing birthright citizenship)
    13. I Don’t Wanna Fight a War for Jews
    14. Today The Wall, Tomorrow The World

  27. And in response to Her Majesty Hillary — and the regime she serves, which is doing its best to force her coronation down our throats:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    For any old people like Steve who happen to also have a soft spot for punk music, if you missed the post-punk moment of the early 2000s you should check out bands like The Libertines





    A great song with one of the great opening lines of all time:



    Did you see the stylish kids in the riot?

    As for the crypto-white identity politics I hope Steve includes this lyric:

    There are fewer more distressing sights than that
    of an Englishman in a baseball cap
    And we will die in the class that we were born
    Well that's a class of our own my love


    Doherty is certainly getting at something behind the Brexit sentiment.



    The Strokes being the (technically superior if not quite as desperate and honest) American peak of this momentary era:

  28. • Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie
    @Rob McX

    "Johnny Rotten’s not looking too good these days."

    No doubt he looks--and smells--considerably better than Sid Vicious.

    And Hillary is somewhere in between, closer to the badly ageing Rotten than the decomposed Vicious but that's subject to change without notice.

    Pun intended.

    Replies: @backup, @Anonymous

    , @backup
    @Rob McX

    He looks far better than Sid Vicious these days.

    , @Anonymous
    @Rob McX

    He's increasingly resembling the late Ian Paisley, another volatile loud Irishman.

    , @Bill
    @Rob McX

    Rock and Roll should be a Logan's Run kind of thing. You get your fifteen minutes of fame, and then, at age 35, you get your choice of plane crash, motorcycle crash, car crash, or multi-drug overdose.

    , @ATX Hipster
    @Rob McX

    Shane MacGowan, on the other hand, is looking somewhat less likely to die at any moment than he used to.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  29. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Actually, Hillary wouldn’t even have to step down. If Trump was Literally Hitler, wouldn’t she at least compromise a bit with his positions to peel off a few of his voters? Or at least just say she was compromising?

    But then, if Trump was Literally Hitler, would Obama really have gone on vacation last month? Would he have stayed on vacation while Louisiana flooded, giving Literal Hitler a chance to show him up?

    They don’t seem to be taking Literal Hitler as anywhere near as much of a threat as the press does.

  30. https://m.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/51g52y/clinton_cuts_off_informal_press_conference_when/

    That’s Hillary on the airplane. Doesn’t want to answer hard questions. In a way, a microcosm of the modern left – brittle and unable to tolerate any questioning.

  31. Dirk Dagger [AKA "That\'s Not Who We Are"] says: • Website
    @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

  32. Excellent column, Sailer!
    These are interesting times. The post WWII status quo is about as dead as Hillary and anything can happen: power is up for grabs. Naturally, a skilled business shark such as Trump smelled the blood in the water miles away and is now ready for the killing. You can bet that the Davos crowd is finished, and globalism along with it. Globalism and open borders are made obsolete with superpowers like China and Russia. You’ve got to play in the big games or kiss the dollar goodbye.
    Let’s send Hillary and Bill and Soros where they belong : to a shoddy retirement home staffed with vibrants.

    • Replies: @grapesoda
    @BB753

    I could see that happening, as fossil fuel availability declines in the coming decades and people are forced to live more locally (The world becomes a bigger place? Or is it smaller?? I forget.)

    Even smart people tend to think... OK things are going this way now, so in 50 years it will be like this except more. But then black swan events happen and upset the prevailing order of the day. Who would have predicted in the first half of the 20th Century that Germany would become a peaceful nation of emasculated artsy leftists?

    Replies: @BB753, @dr kill

  33. Even the most deplorable habit of a few on the alt-right—the use of Nazi imagery—has its punk predecessors. The Ramones’ greatest song was “Blitzkrieg Bop.” Mick Jones’ proto-Clash band was the London SS. Malcolm McLaren handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols.

    Why? Because it was offensive. And offensive was enjoyable.

    If only a few on the alt-right do this, they sure are prolific.

    I would have considered myself alt-right six or nine months ago, but I’m distancing myself from the label now. Milo, Steve and other sympathetic journalists say that the Nazi stuff is mostly “trolling” for shock value, but I’m starting to doubt that. If you’ve spend any significant amount of time on sites like TRS you know that plenty of the posters there are dead serious about it. Check out the comments under that article by the Jewish guy claiming he was alt-right. The most popular alt-right podcast is Fash the Nation, which recently featured this song. Are they trolling or serious? At a certain point, what difference does it make?

    • Disagree: Sam Haysom
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    @anon1

    The "ovens and 6 gorillions" humor is a way of mocking the gods of the enemy.

    The /pol/chan/TRS wing of the alt-right is hugely into humor. The fashy humor It is primarily for the lolz, imo, but it also serves a serious purpose and. What's changed within the alt-right in the last 1 or 2 years is that a lot more people are getting a bit angrier about the ((( usual suspects ))). TRS and even Vox Day were not as angry about the jews even 1 year ago.

    , @AndrewR
    @anon1

    Well the right flank of the alt right certainly does not care much for Jews and wants to keep Jews out of the alt-right at all costs. I'm not 100% on board this train but I am sympathetic to the No Jews Allowed view. There is little evidence that Jews don't constitute a highly distinct population unwilling and possibly unable to contribute to the ethnic interests of whites as a whole. And what better way is there to ensure Jews stay out of the movement than utter mockery of Holocaustianity? Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we. One need not endorse jokes about genocide or calls for genocide, of course, but I'll repeat what I said above to Sailer: do not punch to the right until you are on the left. In an era when Jamie Foxx (sic) can openly joke about how fun it is to kill white people without so much as a peep of protest from the left, your complaints about the crass memes and songs by the fringe of the fringe comes off as ignorant at best if not outright dishonest.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Marc

    , @EriK
    @anon1

    TRS? Sorry friend I don't get out much. Help me. I'm sure you don't mean Teachers Retirement System.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  34. @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

    “Johnny Rotten’s not looking too good these days.”

    No doubt he looks–and smells–considerably better than Sid Vicious.

    And Hillary is somewhere in between, closer to the badly ageing Rotten than the decomposed Vicious but that’s subject to change without notice.

    Pun intended.

    • Replies: @backup
    @Kylie

    Reminds me of something I read in a pocketbook from Nigel Rees on graffiti. Under the line "Punk's not dead" was added: "No, it just smells that way".

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @Anonymous
    @Kylie

    According to Lydon, Sid Vicious's urn of cremated ashes were inadvertantly dropped whilst being carried through Heathrow Airport's terminal building.
    Lydon joked that the ashes were swept up in the air con system and are currently recycling around Heathrow.
    Such is the caliber and character of the British punk movement.

  35. It was a lot harder to accuse someone of being a Nazi in the 1970’s because many of my generation had fathers, uncles, or family friends who fought against them. The memory was much more fresh and no one (((ethnic))) group claimed it as their unique experience. In fact, one was constantly reminded that is was Americans (now we would call them whites) who saved the Jews from the ovens. Collecting militaria was not nearly as stigmatized especially if someone you knew brought it back as war booty. reading books on WW2, military board games, soldiers occupying Germany were something that could be reflected upon by living memory (for instance now you could not read a new book on ww2 where anyone other than the most junior officer or enlisted man could be interviewed because every higher up is long since dead).The fact that the US and the USSR won the war meant that there was a more casual attitude towards their vanquished foe. Nazism was not something to be feared. In fact, everything that diminished our enemy diminished our efforts. So something like the Ramone’s video is more of a joke than it is a glorification of the Nazis in it because everyone in it were all long dead. We killed them.

  36. @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

    He looks far better than Sid Vicious these days.

  37. “how rock should get on track again. ”

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @George

    Electronica is notably pale.

    , @reiner Tor
    @George

    Metal music went on until well into the 90s. Some bands are still creating something new(ish), though it's mostly just refinement of themes and sub-genres developed earlier.

    , @Desiderius
    @George

    Chris Stapleton's pretty good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkujd73yzt0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4vxz18b59Q

    , @Thea
    @George

    You need to get out more. There are plenty of talented white performers they just aren't promoted in favor of skanks like Miley Cyrus.

    , @OilcanFloyd
    @George

    Much of Roots music is pretty white.

    , @ogunsiron
    @George

    I took a brief look at that subculture a few years ago and they were basically "intersectional BLM" before it was cool. Some of he afropunk people are well meaning oreos who get along fine with white people but most, in my experience, are the kind of oreos who harbor a lot of resentment for those white people they spend all their time with. It's a strange thing.

    , @Captain Tripps
    @George

    You should check out Of Monsters and Men. Icelandic folk rock; I've seen them live; they are superb performers. Typical lefty prog in their politics, but their musical themes plumb Icelandic/Norse pagan folklore.

    https://youtu.be/tBkkplOiSjQ

    https://youtu.be/A76a_LNIYwE

    Replies: @Tacitus2016

  38. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.

    • Replies: @Flinders Petrie
    @Desiderius


    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.
     

    Truly, and modern leftists are intent on forcing white identity (nu-liberalism) down the throat of every nonwhite society across the world. It's a reinvented colonialism/supremacism. Meanwhile the nationalist component of the alt-right are the ones who don't want to force the world to assimilate to white values.
    , @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.
     
    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination....Which is probably why American "conservatives" hate it.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @reiner Tor

  39. @Kylie
    @Rob McX

    "Johnny Rotten’s not looking too good these days."

    No doubt he looks--and smells--considerably better than Sid Vicious.

    And Hillary is somewhere in between, closer to the badly ageing Rotten than the decomposed Vicious but that's subject to change without notice.

    Pun intended.

    Replies: @backup, @Anonymous

    Reminds me of something I read in a pocketbook from Nigel Rees on graffiti. Under the line “Punk’s not dead” was added: “No, it just smells that way”.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @backup

    Lol!

    And along the same lines, I don't envy anyone who has to stand too close to Hillary. She's way past her "sell by" date.

  40. My comment (#43) to Sailer’s February 11, 2016 post “Hillary and Sanders Debate White People:”

    MLK says:
    February 12, 2016 at 8:29 am GMT • 200 Words
    @ziel
    I had a similar immediate reaction (upon reading the beginning of this transcript). Though the problem for Democrats extends well beyond appearing to pander in the run-up to South Carolina.

    It’s untenable for the vote in the Democratic primaries to divide along racial lines. Worse, if Clinton wins the nomination by a combination of overwhelmingly winning blacks and hispanics and Super Delegates, while soundly losing the white vote.

    It’s important to remember what happened in 2008. Then, too, Hillary had locked up the lion’s share of the Super Delegates early. But when the blacks unified behind Obama — and chased Bill Clinton off into the woods for his “racist” backtalk, Hillary was told what time it was. There was no way the Super Delegates were going to be the determining factor in denying Obama the nomination. Even just further white/black split primary results was intolerable. Hillary was told to cut a deal with Obama and she did.

    There must be about three establishment Democrats that aren’t chaffing over the most obvious part of that deal. After all, on what possible basis would a Democrat conclude that their chances of winning in November aren’t much improved with Biden instead of Hillary? Nor do I think that the establishment factions will accept Sanders.

    I remain convinced that the Democrats will switch to PLAN B. (aka Plan Biden). For anyone who thinks they don’t have the temerity to get it done:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/elec02.nj.s.torricelli.race/index.html

  41. @Desiderius

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.

    Replies: @Flinders Petrie, @syonredux

    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.

    Truly, and modern leftists are intent on forcing white identity (nu-liberalism) down the throat of every nonwhite society across the world. It’s a reinvented colonialism/supremacism. Meanwhile the nationalist component of the alt-right are the ones who don’t want to force the world to assimilate to white values.

  42. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

    Absolutely. See Lester Bangs’s “White Noise Supremacists”

    I’d point out that turn of the century indie rock was also very much an implicit white identity movement. It was arty white suburban guys moving to the city and creating a kind of cool that had nothing to do with hip-hop.

  43. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

    One could make an argument that (with the exception of hip-hop) all youth subcultures of the past 50 years were merely fragmented implicit white identity movements.
    -rockabilly
    -hippie
    -punk
    -skinhead
    -goth
    -metal
    -grunge
    -alt-rock
    -indy
    -emo

    Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    -gamer?
    -4chan?

    • Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    The electronic music festival circuit?

    I guess technically this arose out of rave culture which started in Britain and Germany, but mega-festivals (Coachella, Burning Man, Electric Daisy Carnival, Ibiza, etc.) are growing in popularity. Overwhelmingly white audiences.

    , @27 year old
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    >Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    >-gamer?
    >-4chan?

    Hipster
    Fash (Alt-right, etc)
    Bro
    "EDM"

    and of course, SJW

    , @Anonymous
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    I don't know. That's the kind of inane reasoning that leads to manifestly idiotic statements like, "homosexuality is the last stand of implicit white identity."

    Punk had ties to the skinhead scene in 70s Britain, which was a working class, implicitly white identity type scene. That's why neo-Nazis later adopted the skinhead subculture, rather than the myriad other subcultures you list.

    , @Seneca
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    Surprised nobody mentioned country and country rock. It is practically all White 24/7/365.

    This latter style was kick started by bands like the Eagles and the Byrds in the 1970s.

    Also related to this style is Jam Band music started in the 1970s by bands like the Allman Brothers Band and the Grateful Dead .

    And don't forget the the Good Old Boy Southern Rebel Rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Wet Willie and others who are a sub genre of country rock and blues rock.

    Country and Country Rock has very few non White artists.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @flyingtiger

  44. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.”

    This is probably why, for the past few years, there’s been this big push to get a black group from Detroit, called Death, recognized as the first punk group.

  45. Anything to this National Enquirer story about Hillary coming out as a lesbian? http://goo.gl/ju5Gcc Could that be what Assange has up his sleeve? (It might explain her motivation to keep her personal emails secret.) In any event, how would it play with the public? And supposing the story is true, wouldn’t the fact she has been keeping it secret mean that she has been vulnerable to blackmail all along? Just wondering.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Luke Lea

    The sham marriage and alcoholism won't play as well as the lesbian part with her voters. Also, there's no way she could avoid questions about her health if she starts opening up about her private life.

    , @whorefinder
    @Luke Lea

    In an interview with, of all shows, Fox & Friends (Fox News's coffee-klatch morning show), Assange strongly hinted that his next revelations on Sick Hillary would have to do with murder.

    The hosts asked him if his promised revelations would deal with Hillary's health. Assange said it could be broadly "related" to health and went on to say that murder was also related to health. He made that connection, no one else.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQRVdlCJSHk

    My bets:

    (1) Evidence that Hillary wanted that ambassador in Libya dead.
    (2) The DNC staffer who was recently murdered---Seth Rich---evidence Hillary wanted him dead.

    Go Julian!

  46. Hey, this is an optimistic take. Consider that punk utterly destroyed the overproduced, artificial establishment pop music of the 70s and paved the way for some of the better alternative bands of the 80s: the Smiths, Echo and the Bunnymen, the Go-Betweens, New Order, REM, and many more. (You’ll have to forgive my parochialism: I grew up in Australia, so I’m not as familiar with the American post-punk scene.) While post-punk was, to my untrained ear, completely different from the angry vulgarity of the punk scene, it couldn’t have gotten off the ground without punk’s destructive rampage.

    Or maybe I’m wrong. I’m no music historian, just an 80s kid. But if the analogy holds, we might look forward to a true new right arising from the ashes of our exhausted, discredited “conservative” political establishment.

  47. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

    White Riot – a response to blacks rioting at the 1976 Notting Hill Carnival, and the Clash getting mugged by a black gang. “They can do it, why can’t we?”

    White Man In Hammersmith Palais – Joe Strummer goes to a reggae concert and feels alienated and out of place. All his assumptions about ‘the black struggle’ are proven naive and wrong.

    Safe European Home – Strummer gets back home from a holiday in Jamaica and says, “Thank God I don’t live there”. Another song about disillusionment with black culture.

    Fun fact – I knew Strummer towards the end of his life, and he told me he voted Ukip in the 1999 European elections.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Ray Swarnow


    Fun fact – I knew Strummer towards the end of his life, and he told me he voted Ukip in the 1999 European elections.
     
    Blimey.Yay for Joe!

    I bumped into him once in corner shop in Notting Hill, mid 1980s, he was buying a packet of fags, I mumbled an acknowledgement, he noted my Joy Division t-shirt. I don't think I would be able to infer anything political in our meeting. ;-)

  48. @Luke Lea
    Anything to this National Enquirer story about Hillary coming out as a lesbian? http://goo.gl/ju5Gcc Could that be what Assange has up his sleeve? (It might explain her motivation to keep her personal emails secret.) In any event, how would it play with the public? And supposing the story is true, wouldn't the fact she has been keeping it secret mean that she has been vulnerable to blackmail all along? Just wondering.

    Replies: @BB753, @whorefinder

    The sham marriage and alcoholism won’t play as well as the lesbian part with her voters. Also, there’s no way she could avoid questions about her health if she starts opening up about her private life.

  49. The Clash rocked. And bopped.

    Radio Clash

    The Magnificent Seven (live)

    Return to Brixton (1990 Guns of Brixton remix)

    The uneven album Sandinista! has a few great jangly/dubby/atmospheric tracks, some with real emotional punch:

    The Magnificent Seven
    One More Time/One More Dub
    Corner Soul
    The Equaliser
    The Call Up
    Charlie Don’t Surf
    Living In Fame

  50. I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.

  51. @backup
    @Kylie

    Reminds me of something I read in a pocketbook from Nigel Rees on graffiti. Under the line "Punk's not dead" was added: "No, it just smells that way".

    Replies: @Kylie

    Lol!

    And along the same lines, I don’t envy anyone who has to stand too close to Hillary. She’s way past her “sell by” date.

  52. @AndrewR
    Don't punch to the right. Instead of saying "deplorable" (a highly moralistic word), say "edgy" or "provocative." In a hypothetical future in which you're in the left wing of politics, you can call Nazi images deplorable. In the current year in which most people don't see much difference between you and the nazi fetishists, calling them deplorable just comes off as cucked. Leftists never punch left, so why do you punch right?

    Replies: @iffen

    so why do you punch right?

    Because you can’t have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.

    • Replies: @Oliver Ironside
    @iffen


    Because you can’t have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.
     
    The left has hard core racists under their big tent and no one cares, so why not?

    Replies: @iffen

    , @AndrewR
    @iffen

    BLM, CAIR and other assorted leftist client groups leave big piles of doo-doo in the left tent.

  53. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Saw Doctors sound check..Hecksher Park Huntington…Leo Moran told me that the Clash…The Pogues….and the Saw Doctors were gonna go on tour together…Joe Strummer’s sudden death ended this Punk Rock made-in-heaven-tour.

    Now imagine this:The Clash…Pogues….Saw Doctor…Screw Driver….Tour!!!!!!!!!!

    The drummer for the Saw Doctors won the Irish Sweepsakes and retired.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @War for Blair Mountain

    The only time I saw The Pogues, they had Joe Strummer in the band as lead singer. This was @1989-90.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

  54. @Anonymous
    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called 'dinosaur' bands, and relax.

    I can't say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the 'quality' of 'popular music' is 'does it still sound good and vital - like it was made yesterday - 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future'.
    I'm afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are 'trendy' at the moment - mainly because of young people - who could not have had a clue about them, 'getting into them'. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the 'great seal' of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial 'memory hole'.

    Replies: @Wolf, @Desiderius, @Daniel Williams, @dr kill, @S. Anonyia

    I would bet a lot more youngsters like those punk bands more than some of the old dinosaur bands, such as the example Steve brought up, Emerson Lake and Palmer, who sound dated to my ears and also to my 20 year old son’s ears. He also loves The Ramones and The Clash, along with The Cure and some others.

    ELP regularly used the very latest electronic instruments which were cutting edge at the time, but ran the risk of becoming dated, which Emerson’s Moog synthesizer and Palmer’s drum synthesizer (or whatever it’s called) now do. You never see stuff like this today:

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Wolf

    An appreciation of form doesn't preclude appreciation of chaos and release. This from a guy who saw both the Ramones AND Emerson, Lake & Palmer multiple times. You've read Shakespeare and trashy fiction, right?

    I doubt Greg Lake ever broke a bass string. I saw Dee Dee break THREE in one set! He had a roadie in the wings with an intact Precision, and he would run out on stage with the spare. Was it in tune? Who knew, or cared?

  55. @Gunnar von Cowtown

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    One could make an argument that (with the exception of hip-hop) all youth subcultures of the past 50 years were merely fragmented implicit white identity movements.
    -rockabilly
    -hippie
    -punk
    -skinhead
    -goth
    -metal
    -grunge
    -alt-rock
    -indy
    -emo

    Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    -gamer?
    -4chan?

    Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp, @27 year old, @Anonymous, @Seneca

    The electronic music festival circuit?

    I guess technically this arose out of rave culture which started in Britain and Germany, but mega-festivals (Coachella, Burning Man, Electric Daisy Carnival, Ibiza, etc.) are growing in popularity. Overwhelmingly white audiences.

  56. Blah blah blah.

    Punk rock is no more “white” than any other negro-derived guitar-based music (ask a real White musician like Varg Vikernes about that).

    It’s not even the most popular white music: I’m certain that Kenny G has sold more albums (remember them?) than every punk band combined.

    It fulfilled certain Capitalist requirements at the time, and was then tossed aside in favor of the equally annoying but genuinely negroid rap(e) “music.”

    Actual white music (Prog, New Age, Scott Walker) is no more popular on the right than in the popular “culture,” BECAUSE it’s White and you have all been taught to worship negroes.

    Conservative punk rock fans = cucks

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @James O'Meara


    Punk rock is no more “white” than any other negro-derived guitar-based music
     
    Dunno. It certainly repels Blacks......
    , @Antonymous
    @James O'Meara


    Punk rock is no more “white” than any other negro-derived guitar-based music (ask a real White musician like Varg Vikernes about that).

     

    Blues is derived from white folk (and black spirituals), so the borrowing is full circle.
  57. @Anonymous
    So, who just is the 'Johnny Rotten' of the alt-right?

    On the same theme, who is the Malcolm McLaren?

    Replies: @Jed, @Lurker

    Milo.

    • Replies: @gruff
    @Jed

    Milo is a fraud.

  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Verymuchalive
    Malcolm McLaren " handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols " I'd like to see the evidence for this, Mr Steve.
    Despite his name, McLaren was half-Jewish and brought up in a Jewish household. It is widely accepted that once he took over the Sex Pistols, Nazi imagery was toned down and then swiftly eliminated.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Well, the late unlamented Sid Vicious did prominently sport a very explicit German Nazi flag T shirt in the ‘ Great Rock and Roll Swindle’ – a famous sequence from that godawful rubbishy pretentious unwatchable film has Vicious strutting through the Jewish quarter of Paris wearing that T shirt, with the camera showing the tearful shocked faces of elderly Jews – Jews of an age to have witnessed World War 2.
    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Anonymous


    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.
     
    (((Malcolm))) claimed the whole T-shirt thing was his idea.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.
     
    John Lydon despised Nancy and says Sid was a sad, none too bright boy, with a terrible, junkie mother.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive, @Marie

  59. @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

    He’s increasingly resembling the late Ian Paisley, another volatile loud Irishman.

  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kylie
    @Rob McX

    "Johnny Rotten’s not looking too good these days."

    No doubt he looks--and smells--considerably better than Sid Vicious.

    And Hillary is somewhere in between, closer to the badly ageing Rotten than the decomposed Vicious but that's subject to change without notice.

    Pun intended.

    Replies: @backup, @Anonymous

    According to Lydon, Sid Vicious’s urn of cremated ashes were inadvertantly dropped whilst being carried through Heathrow Airport’s terminal building.
    Lydon joked that the ashes were swept up in the air con system and are currently recycling around Heathrow.
    Such is the caliber and character of the British punk movement.

  61. @El-Nathan
    The Clash had White Riot. I think they were pretty explicit about being a white identify movement.

    Replies: @Tex, @Thea

    “Black man gotta lot of problems
    He don’t mind throwing a brick.
    White people go to school
    Where they teach you how to be thick.”

  62. This is a reiteration of the Milo Y spin on the alt right, that it’s smart transgressives trying to épater les bourgeois. That’s true about one percent of the time. Most alt righters are just Stormfronters by a hipper name. Calling them the Ramones? I suppose Oswald Mosley’s crowd were Ramones types, too. It’s distressing to see Steve Sailer, a self-described moderate, going there, implicitly placing himself under the alt-right umbrella, like Buzz Bissinger fitting himself into Gucci stilettos.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @SEATAF


    It’s distressing to see Steve Sailer, a self-described moderate, going there, implicitly placing himself under the alt-right umbrella, like Buzz Bissinger fitting himself into Gucci stilettos.
     
    I'm sure you're real torn up.
  63. We grew up with leftism, so we know all the subversive tricks. Why not throw it in their stupid monkey faces

  64. “Regression to the mean suggests she probably won’t have too many days worse than her Labor Day”

    An example of a worse day: During the first presidential debate, what would happen to Hillary’s polls if she were to have several coughing fits? On LIVE TV, with estimates 100-150 million Americans watching? And, perhaps she might giggle uncontrollably a couple of times during questions? What would happen to her polls then?

    Regression to Hillary’s mean would suggest that this will occur, especially as she has already done this during a few of the Democratic Primary debates. This time, however, the problem would be magnified with nearly one in two Americans having witnessed her coughing fits, on live television.

    Well over a year since he first debate with Sanders, she is continuing to cough. So there is no reason to think that she won’t cough at least once, and that for an extended period of time (ca. 30 seconds, and on live television, thirty seconds is an awful long time).

    a decade after Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper’s he had some timely ideas about how rock should get on track again.

    Uh, Pet Sounds was released in ’66 (June), but Sgt. Pepper wasn’t released until ’67. I think you may have meant Revolver (Aug/Sept. ’66) as it is the fiftieth anniversary of Revolver. It is also the fiftieth anniversary of the Beatles’s final live show, in Candlestick Park, August 29, 1966.

    But I think you may have meant Revolver, not Sgt. Pepper.

  65. @anon1

    Even the most deplorable habit of a few on the alt-right—the use of Nazi imagery—has its punk predecessors. The Ramones’ greatest song was “Blitzkrieg Bop.” Mick Jones’ proto-Clash band was the London SS. Malcolm McLaren handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols.

    Why? Because it was offensive. And offensive was enjoyable.

     

    If only a few on the alt-right do this, they sure are prolific.

    I would have considered myself alt-right six or nine months ago, but I'm distancing myself from the label now. Milo, Steve and other sympathetic journalists say that the Nazi stuff is mostly "trolling" for shock value, but I'm starting to doubt that. If you've spend any significant amount of time on sites like TRS you know that plenty of the posters there are dead serious about it. Check out the comments under that article by the Jewish guy claiming he was alt-right. The most popular alt-right podcast is Fash the Nation, which recently featured this song. Are they trolling or serious? At a certain point, what difference does it make?

    Replies: @ogunsiron, @AndrewR, @EriK

    The “ovens and 6 gorillions” humor is a way of mocking the gods of the enemy.

    The /pol/chan/TRS wing of the alt-right is hugely into humor. The fashy humor It is primarily for the lolz, imo, but it also serves a serious purpose and. What’s changed within the alt-right in the last 1 or 2 years is that a lot more people are getting a bit angrier about the ((( usual suspects ))). TRS and even Vox Day were not as angry about the jews even 1 year ago.

  66. @BB753
    Excellent column, Sailer!
    These are interesting times. The post WWII status quo is about as dead as Hillary and anything can happen: power is up for grabs. Naturally, a skilled business shark such as Trump smelled the blood in the water miles away and is now ready for the killing. You can bet that the Davos crowd is finished, and globalism along with it. Globalism and open borders are made obsolete with superpowers like China and Russia. You've got to play in the big games or kiss the dollar goodbye.
    Let's send Hillary and Bill and Soros where they belong : to a shoddy retirement home staffed with vibrants.

    Replies: @grapesoda

    I could see that happening, as fossil fuel availability declines in the coming decades and people are forced to live more locally (The world becomes a bigger place? Or is it smaller?? I forget.)

    Even smart people tend to think… OK things are going this way now, so in 50 years it will be like this except more. But then black swan events happen and upset the prevailing order of the day. Who would have predicted in the first half of the 20th Century that Germany would become a peaceful nation of emasculated artsy leftists?

    • Replies: @BB753
    @grapesoda

    Agreed, but my point was that for the dollar to survive you need a nation to back it up. You need America. And an industrial backbone, military might, well-defined borders and a coherent and smart if not totally homogeneous population. And some kind of fiscal sanity. Globalists are playing with fire, because China and Russia aren't playing by the same rules the EU and USA are. They're still nation-states with largely state-controlled economies. They both like their borders fine and they don't intend to replace their populations with the riff raff of the entire planet for the moment.
    They don't respect tariffs or copyright laws. They're not on board with unbridled gayness, cultural marxism, identity politics and zero natality..
    Western corporations will soon realize they need strong nations to operate from and military imposed rule of law to run their businesses worlwide.
    Make America Great Again also means: let's keep doing business as Americans or the Chinese will soon own everything and the dollar will be obsolete.
    That's why globalism is dead for the time being.

    , @dr kill
    @grapesoda

    You are embarrassing yourself.

  67. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    Electronica is notably pale.

  68. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    Metal music went on until well into the 90s. Some bands are still creating something new(ish), though it’s mostly just refinement of themes and sub-genres developed earlier.

  69. @Gunnar von Cowtown

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    One could make an argument that (with the exception of hip-hop) all youth subcultures of the past 50 years were merely fragmented implicit white identity movements.
    -rockabilly
    -hippie
    -punk
    -skinhead
    -goth
    -metal
    -grunge
    -alt-rock
    -indy
    -emo

    Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    -gamer?
    -4chan?

    Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp, @27 year old, @Anonymous, @Seneca

    >Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    >-gamer?
    >-4chan?

    Hipster
    Fash (Alt-right, etc)
    Bro
    “EDM”

    and of course, SJW

  70. The Kids are Alt-Right

    Sham 69 – If the Kids are United

  71. “I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.”

    And not only them

  72. @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

    Rock and Roll should be a Logan’s Run kind of thing. You get your fifteen minutes of fame, and then, at age 35, you get your choice of plane crash, motorcycle crash, car crash, or multi-drug overdose.

  73. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    Chris Stapleton’s pretty good:

  74. @El-Nathan
    The Clash had White Riot. I think they were pretty explicit about being a white identify movement.

    Replies: @Tex, @Thea

    Mick Jones went on to form Big Audio Dynamite which was antifa and pro – multi cultural Britain.

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @Thea

    Mick Jones has made comments in the past that he is-was not happy about Muslims in England.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  75. Mick Jones, Malcolm McClaren, Joey Ramone…all Jewish.

  76. At what point Steve are you going to go on Gavin McInnness’s radio show for an interview? With this article, your minds seem to be converging all the more.

  77. anon • Disclaimer says:

    If you think about the timing of punk it was more an anti-white identity movement.

    The skinhead culture was in full flow at the time as a reaction to non-white immigrant gangs cleansing the native blue collar population out of the cities.

    In terms of its effect at the time Punk split the blue collar youth into two antagonistic camps which allowed the ethnic cleansing to succeed.

  78. Punk Rock/Post Punk was where the exciting, dangerous and tactless entertainment existed during the bland, soft rock Seventies through the conformist, yuppie 1980’s. It was also a cultural break from the passive hippie with a more aggressive update of the greaser. The selfish, often puerile interests of the participants mattered, not the common good. Personal politics were much closer to Objectivism than Liberalism despite a lot of leftist blather.

    Regardless of attempts at being co-opted by the Left (Maximum Rock and Roll fanzine, ABC No Rio, Rock Against Racism, Reagan hatred), it remained a DIY entertainment movement for kids, by kids. In the US suburbs it was distilled down to some of the whitest musical rage of the 20th century, despite originating from Jews slumming in the Bowery.

    It was also a sign of cultural decay, and the punkers were canaries in the coal mine. The Alt Right is trying to preserve/restore the Western Culture they were mindlessly destroying the fabric of.

  79. @Luke Lea
    Anything to this National Enquirer story about Hillary coming out as a lesbian? http://goo.gl/ju5Gcc Could that be what Assange has up his sleeve? (It might explain her motivation to keep her personal emails secret.) In any event, how would it play with the public? And supposing the story is true, wouldn't the fact she has been keeping it secret mean that she has been vulnerable to blackmail all along? Just wondering.

    Replies: @BB753, @whorefinder

    In an interview with, of all shows, Fox & Friends (Fox News‘s coffee-klatch morning show), Assange strongly hinted that his next revelations on Sick Hillary would have to do with murder.

    The hosts asked him if his promised revelations would deal with Hillary’s health. Assange said it could be broadly “related” to health and went on to say that murder was also related to health. He made that connection, no one else.

    My bets:

    (1) Evidence that Hillary wanted that ambassador in Libya dead.
    (2) The DNC staffer who was recently murdered—Seth Rich—evidence Hillary wanted him dead.

    Go Julian!

  80. @Steve Sailer
    @5371

    Pretty much.

    Replies: @pyrrhus

    Great analogy with the Ramones…..

  81. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    And in response to Her Majesty Hillary -- and the regime she serves, which is doing its best to force her coronation down our throats:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qa9VjuzTJs

    Replies: @Anonymous

    For any old people like Steve who happen to also have a soft spot for punk music, if you missed the post-punk moment of the early 2000s you should check out bands like The Libertines

    A great song with one of the great opening lines of all time:

    Did you see the stylish kids in the riot?

    As for the crypto-white identity politics I hope Steve includes this lyric:

    There are fewer more distressing sights than that
    of an Englishman in a baseball cap
    And we will die in the class that we were born
    Well that’s a class of our own my love

    Doherty is certainly getting at something behind the Brexit sentiment.

    The Strokes being the (technically superior if not quite as desperate and honest) American peak of this momentary era:

  82. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    You need to get out more. There are plenty of talented white performers they just aren’t promoted in favor of skanks like Miley Cyrus.

  83. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the UK of the late 1970s, the commercial TV network, ITV, – British TV was a lot more daring in those days – produced a very short series of music shows to specifically cater to the ‘punk boom’ entitled ‘Revolver’.

    For some bizarre reason, the late, great British comedian, Peter Cook, hosted the show, and for some equally bizarre reason the whole premise of the show was that Peter Cook played the part of a seedy bingo hall manager, who booked these punk bands in order to drum up business for his ailing bingo hall. Part of the act was that Cook, who introduced the bands, was more or less openly contemptuous of the bands and their music.

    Anyway, in the pure filming ‘warm up’ session, Peter Cook, who was NOT in character, got talking to a whole troupe of ‘prominent scene London punks’ who came to watch their favorite bands live.

    Ever mischievous, Peter Cook concocted in his mind a totally fictious punk band, which he named ‘The Grimbles’ on the spur of the moment, and began riffing with a group of young punks about the fantastical antics of ‘The Grimbles’, ‘do you remember that gig at the Hammersmith Palais last year? ‘ enquired Cook, ‘you know the one at which Mickey Slasher stripped nude, right on stage and defecated on the Union Jack?’, ‘oh yeah, yeah, I remember it well!, I was there! , right at the front stage!’ replied a punk. Then, Cook went on, ‘course, at that point, Slasher got in a pyrotechnics expert and blew up stage’.., yep! We remember that stunt well, we were there!!. ‘, ‘as a finale,’ said Cook, ‘Slasher lived up to his name and pissed, stark bollock naked all over the fans’ , ‘a favored punk greeting, apparently’. ‘Yeah, yeah, we got splashed, still got the wet t shirt at home’, ‘and then good ol’ Mickey turned his back towards the audience and broke wind at them’.
    ‘Yeah, yeah, that was a real monster of a gig, you can’t beat The Grimbles’, ‘when are you going to book them for your show, Peter?’, ‘I’ve got all their albums at home’.

  84. I personally find Kraftwerk to be the quintessential Alt Right music group:

    Kraftwerk – Trans europe express

    Kraftwerk – Europe Endless

    Kraftwerk – Expo 2000 (HD 1080p)

  85. @Spotted Toad
    CBGB on Bowery, where the Ramones played their first shows, closed a few years ago; that whole area, which was pretty scuzzy a few decades ago and was artsy-cool not too long ago, is now surrounded by Frank Gehry-lite towers of ultra-luxury apartments. So for example right now, you can buy a 6.7 million apartment across the street from where the Ramones did their first shows, or 7.9 million around the corner:
    http://m.trulia.com/for_sale/40.72418947015556,40.72609614934246,-73.99321183346962,-73.99120017670845_xy/18_zm/2p_beds/map_v

    Replies: @Lagertha

    The artists/writers/filmmakers/angsters were priced out of Lower East Side by 1990’s. King Tut’s Wawa Hut, a bar/performance space that could have been called, ‘Alt-Right,’ is long gone. The whole area is gentrified, thanks to bankster culture – why do rich people always want to hang around the creative types? CBGB’s site is now DBGB’s, a restaurant. The gentrification is complete, except for the bums and homeless people, who shamelessly keep pan-handling there. But there was nothing like the 70-80’s of NYC fun!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lagertha

    I went to King Tut's Wawa Hut frequently back in 1988, the year of the Tompkins Square Park riot. That area was crawling with drug pushers, homeless and skinheads so I'm not nostalgic for that time and place. I seem to recall the Pyramid Club was nearby and it was at times overrun with trannies so just one more good reason no one has invented a wayback machine.

  86. @Anonymous
    Basically, punk rock was all about John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) and no one else.

    In a word he was the high priest, 'philosopher king', power, glory, sun king, numero uno, originator etc etc etc of the whole 'movement' all rolled into one.

    All the rest, New York Dolls, Ramones, Clash etc etc count for jack-shit in the scheme of things. Without that mad Paddy 'genius' of Lydon, all of them would have been roundly forgotten by now.

    John Lydon - what an interesting man. Possessed of absolutely no musical talent or ability whatsoever. A poor man's John Lennon. But, you've got to hand it to him. The animal cunning, the instinctive understanding of psychology, the bumptiousness, the sheer tenacity.

    A man who managed to parlay swearing at TV talk show host on prime time TV - remember in 1976 this was appallingly scandalous - into a highly lucrative career, a big house in Malibu, 40 years of straight f*cking about making dischordant noise (PiL) for the masses, and having the last laugh by having his version of 'God Save the Queen' st the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympics.

    Gosh, as a successful con-man only the neo-cons or The Economist magazine can possibly compare.

    Replies: @Kylie

    “Gosh, as a successful con-man only the neo-cons or The Economist magazine can possibly compare.:”

    Really? I think our Asbestos Remover in Chief is definitely a contender.

  87. @anon1

    Even the most deplorable habit of a few on the alt-right—the use of Nazi imagery—has its punk predecessors. The Ramones’ greatest song was “Blitzkrieg Bop.” Mick Jones’ proto-Clash band was the London SS. Malcolm McLaren handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols.

    Why? Because it was offensive. And offensive was enjoyable.

     

    If only a few on the alt-right do this, they sure are prolific.

    I would have considered myself alt-right six or nine months ago, but I'm distancing myself from the label now. Milo, Steve and other sympathetic journalists say that the Nazi stuff is mostly "trolling" for shock value, but I'm starting to doubt that. If you've spend any significant amount of time on sites like TRS you know that plenty of the posters there are dead serious about it. Check out the comments under that article by the Jewish guy claiming he was alt-right. The most popular alt-right podcast is Fash the Nation, which recently featured this song. Are they trolling or serious? At a certain point, what difference does it make?

    Replies: @ogunsiron, @AndrewR, @EriK

    Well the right flank of the alt right certainly does not care much for Jews and wants to keep Jews out of the alt-right at all costs. I’m not 100% on board this train but I am sympathetic to the No Jews Allowed view. There is little evidence that Jews don’t constitute a highly distinct population unwilling and possibly unable to contribute to the ethnic interests of whites as a whole. And what better way is there to ensure Jews stay out of the movement than utter mockery of Holocaustianity? Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we. One need not endorse jokes about genocide or calls for genocide, of course, but I’ll repeat what I said above to Sailer: do not punch to the right until you are on the left. In an era when Jamie Foxx (sic) can openly joke about how fun it is to kill white people without so much as a peep of protest from the left, your complaints about the crass memes and songs by the fringe of the fringe comes off as ignorant at best if not outright dishonest.

    • Agree: ogunsiron, Dave Pinsen
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @AndrewR

    Disregard my "Agree" there. Meant to agree w/ the previous comment.

    , @Marc
    @AndrewR

    "Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we".

    The Alt Right will become atomized and over as soon as it's adherents attempt to present a kinder, gentler version of itself (sell out) for mass consumption. The AntiFa never apologizes or castigates the more inflammatory members of it's fringes, and neither should we.

    About one third of what constitutes the online Alt Right I find distasteful, but I will never do denounce them by name. I suspect some of them are COINTELPRO, but you can decide for yourself. The Patriot movement lost any chance of having a tangible effect on public policy and cultural influence because of all the in-fighting (low character charlatan leaders and camo fancying loo-loos were the other). Keeping our disagreements within the larger movement to ourselves is the best strategy. Do not give the opposition a single morsel of "disavowal" to gain purchase. State what YOU stand for and WHOSE viewpoints you consider valid, and leave it at that.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  88. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…loud, abrasive, hostile, white, back to basics, and fun.”

    Hostile, loud, abrasive? Don’t tell me you’re buying into the NYT depiction of the Alt-right?

    Those words are clearly more descriptively appropriate for the hordes of the left- BLM, Occupy, etc., at least if we’re using any kind of conventional meaning of those words. Which side screams down discussion, violently attacks those who disagree with them, etc.? That being said, though, I can see how they would view the alt-right as a threat to their worldview.

    Alt-right is really just commonsense rational commentary centered around the protection and well-being of its supporters, their culture, and their country.

    What is really pissing them off is that they could endlessly parasitize and scapegoat whitey, and darn it, he is now demanding to be treated fairly.

  89. @Desiderius

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.

    Replies: @Flinders Petrie, @syonredux

    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.

    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux


    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.
     
    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I'll pass, thanks.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @reiner Tor
    @syonredux

    1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized (not on racial grounds, simply because of failing mental tests and being on welfare they were not allowed to have more than one kid I think), all the while being fiercely neutral (though of course tilting to the West for obvious reasons), keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It's quite close to an ideal society in my mind. All this in a more or less free, peaceful and democratic society, without genocidal violence, totalitarian dictatorship, overt racialist or nationalist propaganda, etc. (Though, as Sweden's later fate shows, probably they'd needed some overt such propaganda, after all.)

    Replies: @Kylie

  90. @Anonymous
    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called 'dinosaur' bands, and relax.

    I can't say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the 'quality' of 'popular music' is 'does it still sound good and vital - like it was made yesterday - 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future'.
    I'm afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are 'trendy' at the moment - mainly because of young people - who could not have had a clue about them, 'getting into them'. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the 'great seal' of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial 'memory hole'.

    Replies: @Wolf, @Desiderius, @Daniel Williams, @dr kill, @S. Anonyia

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called ‘dinosaur’ bands, and relax.

    Uh, dude, that’s the point.

    Relaxation unto death is the opposite of what Rock and Roll (originally slang for copulation – i.e. the creation of new life, not the decay of the old) is about.

  91. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.
     
    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination....Which is probably why American "conservatives" hate it.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @reiner Tor

    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.

    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I’ll pass, thanks.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.

    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I’ll pass, thanks.
     
    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory. Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    "American conservatives" have chosen the latter option.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  92. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    The terrible truth begins to dawn:

    Leftism is White Identity.
     
    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination....Which is probably why American "conservatives" hate it.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @reiner Tor

    1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized (not on racial grounds, simply because of failing mental tests and being on welfare they were not allowed to have more than one kid I think), all the while being fiercely neutral (though of course tilting to the West for obvious reasons), keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It’s quite close to an ideal society in my mind. All this in a more or less free, peaceful and democratic society, without genocidal violence, totalitarian dictatorship, overt racialist or nationalist propaganda, etc. (Though, as Sweden’s later fate shows, probably they’d needed some overt such propaganda, after all.)

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @reiner Tor

    "1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized...all the while being fiercely neutral... keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It’s quite close to an ideal society in my mind. "

    If a society that sends a lot of aid to the third world is quite close to an ideal society in your mind, then your mind is unhinged.

    Replies: @5371, @reiner Tor

  93. Yeah well in our dark Cyberpunk Future its the punks who don’t give a shit who are the Heroes right? Those lame old men who still want to play the game rigged against them and lose in a dignified manner are dying off literally. That Buckley guy was far too flamboyant to be conservative anyway. His prissy Ivy League Elitist attitude just didn’t have any resonance to Reagan’s base, and he was basically the token conservative who curtsied to the Leftist memes, and bowed out after they called him a racist.
    We’re not gonna take it anymore. If they want smashmouth, they’ll need to eat with straws. Punk isn’t just White Power, its White Style. It doesn’t translate well to others.
    The only thing they have Left is rap and hip hop. That stuff basically admits and glorifies every bad stereotype about blacks The Klan ever said. Violent, criminally-prone White-hating minstrels about sums it up. If they want to go black, all they have is the confirmed stereotypes that make their black bodies stink.

  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    One could make an argument that (with the exception of hip-hop) all youth subcultures of the past 50 years were merely fragmented implicit white identity movements.
    -rockabilly
    -hippie
    -punk
    -skinhead
    -goth
    -metal
    -grunge
    -alt-rock
    -indy
    -emo

    Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    -gamer?
    -4chan?

    Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp, @27 year old, @Anonymous, @Seneca

    I don’t know. That’s the kind of inane reasoning that leads to manifestly idiotic statements like, “homosexuality is the last stand of implicit white identity.”

    Punk had ties to the skinhead scene in 70s Britain, which was a working class, implicitly white identity type scene. That’s why neo-Nazis later adopted the skinhead subculture, rather than the myriad other subcultures you list.

  95. OT but a cry for help….

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can’t challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took “Death Wish” for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can’t be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    One, that anyone who remembers the days before the mid-1960s does not regard the drop since 1990 or so as adequate because they have a different sense of normal or a different baseline expectation. Even the rates per 100,000 on Wikipedia, from the DoJ stats, show that for some violent crimes the levels are still about at their 1970 levels, which was then considered rather high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [expand the chart for rates per 100,000].

    And two, that the concern about rising crime is regional and by type of community as this Bloomberg post has it: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/why-americans-think-crime-is-worse-than-it-is

    Other than those hypotheses, I am at a loss. Since the overall stats are still so much better than they were when I was a kid, teenager, or university student [even here in Canada things are much safer than then, though it was never bad enough for a suburban kid to feel that unsafe here], I have no counterargument for him.

    What would be a Sailerian analysis? I haven’t found it in recent posts and don’t recall your most recent treatments. [NB– your last two crime posts on mass incarceration and women and on the headline about law and order do not show up under the category “Crime” so I’m not sure how well the category tags work.]

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    @random observer

    I would ask your fine young Millennial whether the crime rate in black neighborhoods is perfectly acceptable, and should be ignored, or whether it should be a high priority to reduce it.

    If it's no big deal, then how bad is the plight of blacks in the inner city after all?

    If it is a big deal, then he has his answer as to why "law and order" is important.

    And you can play the same game by asking whether "gun violence" is a bad thing, which we must make a major priority to reduce.

    I think it's generally pretty hard to make a case for the idea that reducing crime isn't a worthwhile effort.

    Replies: @random observer

    , @SEATAF
    @random observer

    Isn't the answer just that there's been a crime spike in the past couple of years that looks like much more than statistical noise? And that it's a lot harder to let things get out of control than it is to regain control?

    Replies: @SEATAF

    , @anon
    @random observer

    A short tactical answer is turn the ethnic proportions round - instead of 50% of homicides are committed by black people -> 50% of victims e.g.

    "50% of homicides occur within black communities - why are you okay with that?"

    , @Antonymous
    @random observer


    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can’t challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took "Death Wish" for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can’t be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.
     

    The annoying millenial is probably aware that black criminality drives US violent crime statistics. Crime declined in tandem with Clinton's 1994 crime bill, which incarcerated some 1 in 3 black men between 15 and 35 years old.

    The recent homicide spikes are highly localized to black portions of Baltimore, East St Louis, Philadelphia, Chicago, and other black-run (or heavily influenced) cities. At 13% of the population blacks can't move the crime needle entirely. Nationally we see "only" a 15% average increase between 2014 and 15. But those within crime prone areas are seeing multi-hundred percent increases in homicide y.o.y. Your colleague does the average black no favor to smear their suffering (largely at the hands of black gangs) in with the national average and pronounce it a statistical blip.

    Much of the resurgence in black crime is related to Obama and Holder, who together with BLM, are agitating the black lower class. And Obama's solution? His "arc of the universe bends toward justice" is to blame whites for disproportionate black criminality and suggest a mass release of felons because of "disparate impact". Who wins with this race-baiting and gang member-coddling? Certainly not the average black or scapegoated white.

    This is why Trump talks about crime -- the skyrocketing black homicide rates in the last several years, and the cynical, exacerbating 'solutions' proposed by Obama.

  96. Is the theme of Mr. Sailer’s Taki’s article that punk was and remains a niche phenomenon, ergo the alt-right is . . . ?

    Curious, isn’t it, that the alt-right resembles not so much a movement but a mosh pit? Chaos with an attitude and loose, often anarchic and contrary conventions, yet lacking comprehensive, unifying order or principle. Does -or, perhaps, more to the point, can – “America First” constitute an alt-right comprehensive, unifying principle?

    Just questions to chew on, and I’m curious to hear what commenters have to say of them.

  97. @War for Blair Mountain
    My very strongest suspicion is that at the Alt Right comming out Party in DC today.."The Rilly Big Shew' as Ed Sullivan would say....Jared Taylor will proudly announce that Asians are more intelligent than H...White Americans. Jared Taylor....the Cuck of the Alt Right....



    Orville and Nevile Wright were not two legal immigrant Hindu Brothers from Gujarat India...despite what the Broadway hit musical "Hamilton" claims.



    Steve


    Hillary Clinton....prion disease(Yakov-Kreutzfeld disease)?....And we all thought that the DNC had finally got its cannibalism problem under control. Donald Trump will be debating a spongified brain in early October....Or was it the Huma halal meat at night?

    Replies: @Marcus

    Party was canceled, can’t blame them, Jared is a very intimidating presence.

  98. @Bugg
    The Clash tried to sell leftism, but at least one time I saw them the audience wasn't buying. They made the mistake of having Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 open for them at the Pier in NYC around 1986, and the rock audience basically chased away the disco/rap act in about 30 seconds. The Pier(which was very short-lived) was the last rock venue I can recall that still sold glass long neck bottle beer. The bottles went airborne, and the Master and his 5 had their set cut very short for their own safety. Amazed no one was hurt. The Clash may not have grasped their American audience by that time was mostly classic rock and heavy metal fans as much as anything else.Their audience wasn't much different from U2, Judas Priest or the Who(who they opened for at Shea Stadium a few months later). Sadly the Ramones never really had that crossover into classic rock radio airplay until much later in their career. Because for all the tough guy posturing they were a really fun band.

    Replies: @Travis

    the Clash opened for the Who in 1982 during their biggest final tour….

    I saw the Clash get booed off the stage at JFK stadium in Philadelphia when they attempted to open for The Who, it was my first concert. The crowd was booing and Joe Strummer taunted the audience until the band was booed off the stage. the attendance at JFK was 95,000 for The Who, more people than at Live-Aid 3 years later.

  99. Rush Limbaugh talks at length today about an essay attacking Anti-Trump conservatives, who uses language very similar to Steve Sailer : http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

  100. @Anonymous
    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called 'dinosaur' bands, and relax.

    I can't say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the 'quality' of 'popular music' is 'does it still sound good and vital - like it was made yesterday - 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future'.
    I'm afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are 'trendy' at the moment - mainly because of young people - who could not have had a clue about them, 'getting into them'. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the 'great seal' of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial 'memory hole'.

    Replies: @Wolf, @Desiderius, @Daniel Williams, @dr kill, @S. Anonyia

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are ‘trendy’ at the moment – mainly because of young people – who could not have had a clue about them, ‘getting into them’.

    Seriously, Gramps? Those damned kids and their Ramones? Everyone member of that band is dead—including one who succumbed to that great killer of young men, prostate cancer.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Daniel Williams

    I don't know about the Ramones, but rediscovering old bands has been trendy for a long time. When I was in college, it was Nick Drake, who had been dead for decades.

    You (or at least I) do see young kids in bars walking around in Ramones shirts fairly often.

    I suspect a lot of it has to do with nostalgia for a time when white New Yorkers were at the forefront of pop culture.

  101. OT: has anyone yet read Mormon cuck Glenn Beck’s latest NYT op-ed, ‘Empathy for Black Lives Matter’?

    Now, as his Facebook page – presumably manned by Beck himself – regularly displays stream-of-consciousness writing tending toward the embarrassingly incoherent, the question naturally arises: who’s Glenn Beck’s ghostwriter?

    We know that David French’s wife (and David French himself?) earns major shekels ghosting for the Palin clan, among other ‘Christian conservatives’. Are the Frenches behind idiocy like the following paragraph of Beck’s retarded op-ed?:

    “After the massacre, I invited several Black Lives Matter believers on my show. I got to know them as people — on and off air — and invited them back again. These individuals are decent, hardworking, patriotic Americans. We don’t agree on everything, certainly not on politics; but are we not more than politics? I refuse to define each of them based on the worst among them. No movement is monolithic. The individuals I met that day are not “Black Lives Matter”; they are black Americans who feel disenfranchised and aggrieved; they are believers; they are my neighbors and my fellow citizens.”

    LOL. Cuck harder, Glenn. Only a matter of time, it seems, until DeRay is extended an invite to a potluck at The Blaze HQ. Can’t wait until Beck goes under…

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Marie

    Several years ago Beck admitted on his radio show that he became a Mormon because there was a women he wanted to fuck who would only fuck Mormons.

    Someone with greater testicular fortitude than I could surely find the audio.

    Replies: @Marie

  102. P.S. Steve, for a good laugh today, please read this.

  103. OT, but in this article much astonishment is registered over the fact that in the recent CNN poll, many of Trump’s specific immigration policies are unpopular, but nonetheless, Hillary and Trump are almost even on how they would handle immigration.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/07/the-weirdest-number-in-the-latest-cnn-poll-on-trumps-immigration-policies/

    What does this article fail to take into account?

    Hillary’s extreme position on immigration. Where are the poll questions asking if we should let in 100s of thousands of effectively unvetted “Syrians”? Whether we should let in additional hordes of people from Mexico and Africa?

    If Hillary and Trump are still even overall, my guess is that the media has managed to muddy both Trump’s message on immigration, and Hillary’s actual policies.

    One hopes that in the debates — and in the ads that Trump is finally airing — these differences will come out.

  104. @random observer
    OT but a cry for help....

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can't challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took "Death Wish" for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can't be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    One, that anyone who remembers the days before the mid-1960s does not regard the drop since 1990 or so as adequate because they have a different sense of normal or a different baseline expectation. Even the rates per 100,000 on Wikipedia, from the DoJ stats, show that for some violent crimes the levels are still about at their 1970 levels, which was then considered rather high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [expand the chart for rates per 100,000].

    And two, that the concern about rising crime is regional and by type of community as this Bloomberg post has it: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/why-americans-think-crime-is-worse-than-it-is

    Other than those hypotheses, I am at a loss. Since the overall stats are still so much better than they were when I was a kid, teenager, or university student [even here in Canada things are much safer than then, though it was never bad enough for a suburban kid to feel that unsafe here], I have no counterargument for him.

    What would be a Sailerian analysis? I haven't found it in recent posts and don't recall your most recent treatments. [NB-- your last two crime posts on mass incarceration and women and on the headline about law and order do not show up under the category "Crime" so I'm not sure how well the category tags work.]

    Replies: @candid_observer, @SEATAF, @anon, @Antonymous

    I would ask your fine young Millennial whether the crime rate in black neighborhoods is perfectly acceptable, and should be ignored, or whether it should be a high priority to reduce it.

    If it’s no big deal, then how bad is the plight of blacks in the inner city after all?

    If it is a big deal, then he has his answer as to why “law and order” is important.

    And you can play the same game by asking whether “gun violence” is a bad thing, which we must make a major priority to reduce.

    I think it’s generally pretty hard to make a case for the idea that reducing crime isn’t a worthwhile effort.

    • Replies: @random observer
    @candid_observer

    I particularly like the 'gun violence' retort. Also the racial angle.

    I agree with your last point but I don't think it would work well, and I'd be tempted to agree with him up to a point- with crime overall and in most if not all categories so much lower, what is the marginal return on more spending on cops and prisons? Even I'd have trouble with it, as my framework for 'unacceptable levels of crime' is 1980s. So I think of the last 25 years as much better and still trending down. He thinks of it, since he was born 1988, as a steady and major downward turn his whole life. My comment that anyone older than 75 still thinks of crime as absurdly high doesn't seem to get much traction. I guess they're too old and their 1940s-50s frame of reference too alien.

    The other line I've considered is that the politics of the 1960s and 70s seemed to include so much crime denial that many Americans have learned to mistrust any denial of crime increases now and go with anecdotal evidence instead. It'd be hard- the evidence for now is clear decline although as that Bloomberg guy pointed out about the possibility that that decline could end is valid. I suspect it could end with officials denying it for years. My colleague would just think that conspiracism.

  105. British skinheads were really into reggae, ’cause it’s fun dance music.

    This became British ska. The band Madness got in some trouble for their previous ‘associations’ when they got famous.

    Skinheads were cool looking which is why Ian invented ‘straight edge’ skins with Minor Threat. My cousin worked with Ian at Y & T records. At age 10 he told my cousin and me: “Remember kids: Disco sucks.”

  106. @anon1

    Even the most deplorable habit of a few on the alt-right—the use of Nazi imagery—has its punk predecessors. The Ramones’ greatest song was “Blitzkrieg Bop.” Mick Jones’ proto-Clash band was the London SS. Malcolm McLaren handed out swastikas to his Sex Pistols.

    Why? Because it was offensive. And offensive was enjoyable.

     

    If only a few on the alt-right do this, they sure are prolific.

    I would have considered myself alt-right six or nine months ago, but I'm distancing myself from the label now. Milo, Steve and other sympathetic journalists say that the Nazi stuff is mostly "trolling" for shock value, but I'm starting to doubt that. If you've spend any significant amount of time on sites like TRS you know that plenty of the posters there are dead serious about it. Check out the comments under that article by the Jewish guy claiming he was alt-right. The most popular alt-right podcast is Fash the Nation, which recently featured this song. Are they trolling or serious? At a certain point, what difference does it make?

    Replies: @ogunsiron, @AndrewR, @EriK

    TRS? Sorry friend I don’t get out much. Help me. I’m sure you don’t mean Teachers Retirement System.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @EriK

    therightstuff.biz

  107. @Desiderius
    @syonredux


    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.
     
    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I'll pass, thanks.

    Replies: @syonredux

    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.

    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I’ll pass, thanks.

    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory. Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    “American conservatives” have chosen the latter option.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux


    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory.
     
    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How's Venezuela's pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.

    Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    “American conservatives” have chosen the latter option.
     

    Of course. Doesn't follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

    * - it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it's a bad thing, not a good one.

    Replies: @syonredux

  108. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    Much of Roots music is pretty white.

  109. @Anonymous
    So, who just is the 'Johnny Rotten' of the alt-right?

    On the same theme, who is the Malcolm McLaren?

    Replies: @Jed, @Lurker

    That’s (((Malcolm McLaren))). FYI.

  110. @Anonymous
    The late Joe 'Sandinista' Strummer left more behind than the proverbial 'big house in Surrey'. He had a great big country manor house in Surrey.
    His garage contained one the best vintage Bugatti collections ever.

    Replies: @Lurker

    I’ve never heard that before, don’t believe it. His interests would have been US classic cars I suspect.

    A quick search yields no evidence for his ownership of any Bugatti.

  111. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    I betcha the National Press Club wouldn’t ban La Raza from having a press conference.

    I betcha the National Press Club wouldn’t ban MECHA from holding a press conference.

    I betcha the National Press Conference wouldn’t ban Neyanyahou from holding a press confrence.

    • Replies: @Thea
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Taylor needs to use the fact he was banned as a selling point. It's worked for others before.

  112. @Anonymous
    @Verymuchalive

    Well, the late unlamented Sid Vicious did prominently sport a very explicit German Nazi flag T shirt in the ' Great Rock and Roll Swindle' - a famous sequence from that godawful rubbishy pretentious unwatchable film has Vicious strutting through the Jewish quarter of Paris wearing that T shirt, with the camera showing the tearful shocked faces of elderly Jews - Jews of an age to have witnessed World War 2.
    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.

    Replies: @Lurker

    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.

    (((Malcolm))) claimed the whole T-shirt thing was his idea.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.

    John Lydon despised Nancy and says Sid was a sad, none too bright boy, with a terrible, junkie mother.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @Lurker

    McLaren liked to claim all the "credit" for the Sex Pistols in later years , much to Lydon's annoyance. McLaren and the Pistols used Vicious as a one man freak show. They became wealthy, Vicious ended up dead very quickly. His estate was minimal.
    Many people, then as now, think they could have done much more to help Vicious. But when you're making lots of money from a freak show, last thing you want is to hospitalise him.
    After Vicious, the Nazi imagery was swiftly eliminated.
    McLaren may have " handed swastikas to his Sex Pistols. " It's just I've never seen conclusive evidence of this. Of course, the evidence may be out there. . Find it, readers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Brutusale

    , @Marie
    @Lurker

    Nancy Spungen's mom wrote an incredibly disturbing book about her that, as I recall, basically paints ol' Nancy as a sociopath from birth.

    She was actively despised by others in the - shall we say - '70s punk rock 'community' for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore. I think Richard Hell was probably the only person who spoke semi-fondly of her...

    Replies: @anon

  113. @grapesoda
    @BB753

    I could see that happening, as fossil fuel availability declines in the coming decades and people are forced to live more locally (The world becomes a bigger place? Or is it smaller?? I forget.)

    Even smart people tend to think... OK things are going this way now, so in 50 years it will be like this except more. But then black swan events happen and upset the prevailing order of the day. Who would have predicted in the first half of the 20th Century that Germany would become a peaceful nation of emasculated artsy leftists?

    Replies: @BB753, @dr kill

    Agreed, but my point was that for the dollar to survive you need a nation to back it up. You need America. And an industrial backbone, military might, well-defined borders and a coherent and smart if not totally homogeneous population. And some kind of fiscal sanity. Globalists are playing with fire, because China and Russia aren’t playing by the same rules the EU and USA are. They’re still nation-states with largely state-controlled economies. They both like their borders fine and they don’t intend to replace their populations with the riff raff of the entire planet for the moment.
    They don’t respect tariffs or copyright laws. They’re not on board with unbridled gayness, cultural marxism, identity politics and zero natality..
    Western corporations will soon realize they need strong nations to operate from and military imposed rule of law to run their businesses worlwide.
    Make America Great Again also means: let’s keep doing business as Americans or the Chinese will soon own everything and the dollar will be obsolete.
    That’s why globalism is dead for the time being.

  114. Limbaugh was talking about this piece on his show today:

    >But for most of the other #NeverTrumpers, is it just a coincidence that they also happen to favor Invade the World, Invite the World?<

    http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

  115. @random observer
    OT but a cry for help....

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can't challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took "Death Wish" for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can't be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    One, that anyone who remembers the days before the mid-1960s does not regard the drop since 1990 or so as adequate because they have a different sense of normal or a different baseline expectation. Even the rates per 100,000 on Wikipedia, from the DoJ stats, show that for some violent crimes the levels are still about at their 1970 levels, which was then considered rather high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [expand the chart for rates per 100,000].

    And two, that the concern about rising crime is regional and by type of community as this Bloomberg post has it: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/why-americans-think-crime-is-worse-than-it-is

    Other than those hypotheses, I am at a loss. Since the overall stats are still so much better than they were when I was a kid, teenager, or university student [even here in Canada things are much safer than then, though it was never bad enough for a suburban kid to feel that unsafe here], I have no counterargument for him.

    What would be a Sailerian analysis? I haven't found it in recent posts and don't recall your most recent treatments. [NB-- your last two crime posts on mass incarceration and women and on the headline about law and order do not show up under the category "Crime" so I'm not sure how well the category tags work.]

    Replies: @candid_observer, @SEATAF, @anon, @Antonymous

    Isn’t the answer just that there’s been a crime spike in the past couple of years that looks like much more than statistical noise? And that it’s a lot harder to let things get out of control than it is to regain control?

    • Replies: @SEATAF
    @SEATAF

    Sorry--meant "it’s a lot easier to let things get out of control than it is to regain control"

    Replies: @random observer

  116. @War for Blair Mountain
    Saw Doctors sound check..Hecksher Park Huntington...Leo Moran told me that the Clash...The Pogues....and the Saw Doctors were gonna go on tour together...Joe Strummer's sudden death ended this Punk Rock made-in-heaven-tour.

    Now imagine this:The Clash...Pogues....Saw Doctor...Screw Driver....Tour!!!!!!!!!!


    The drummer for the Saw Doctors won the Irish Sweepsakes and retired.

    Replies: @Lurker

    The only time I saw The Pogues, they had Joe Strummer in the band as lead singer. This was @1989-90.

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @Lurker

    The Strummer-Pogues blend wasn't very good...just didn't work. Clash-Pogues-Saw Doctors tour great idea.

    Saw Sinead O'Connor at Jones Beach.


    Joe Strummer and the Mescalaros at the Ritz..great concert!!!!...It's on You Tube..."Rudie Rudie" on fire!!!!

  117. @SEATAF
    @random observer

    Isn't the answer just that there's been a crime spike in the past couple of years that looks like much more than statistical noise? And that it's a lot harder to let things get out of control than it is to regain control?

    Replies: @SEATAF

    Sorry–meant “it’s a lot easier to let things get out of control than it is to regain control”

    • Replies: @random observer
    @SEATAF

    That would be my concern as well. I imagine that's on the minds of a lot of people, especially those who lived in the 1970s and 80s.

    He'll just pull graphs on me.

    I suspect time will tell.

    But on the whole, when phrased by Trump or supporters as a major crisis of worsening crime, it still strikes me as his weakest plank.

    I did, however, manage to allude to immigration stuff with a colleague today in earshot of millennial and another of his mind:

    1) If Canada had 1 million illegal Americans, would we claim the right to deport them?
    2) would we expect American help in repatriating their nationals?
    3)and various points around the 'jobs Americans wont do' thesis.

    I managed to get that one main colleague [same vintage as me, politics hard to determine] around to the right of deportation of a sovereign country, the customary requirement of nations claiming to be friendly to assist and take their own back [though one may have to prove thbeir affiliation in some cases], and a rigidly enforced guest worker problem where no labour alternatives can be found, even including prior deportation and readmission legally only for those who have not evaded a deportation order in the past.

    Even managed to work in the notion that the current regime is just importing a serf caste to do scutwork at serf wages, 'South Africanizing' American society. Always throw in a progressive-sounding line.

    Good times.

  118. @Ray Swarnow

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    White Riot - a response to blacks rioting at the 1976 Notting Hill Carnival, and the Clash getting mugged by a black gang. "They can do it, why can't we?"

    White Man In Hammersmith Palais - Joe Strummer goes to a reggae concert and feels alienated and out of place. All his assumptions about 'the black struggle' are proven naive and wrong.

    Safe European Home - Strummer gets back home from a holiday in Jamaica and says, "Thank God I don't live there". Another song about disillusionment with black culture.

    Fun fact - I knew Strummer towards the end of his life, and he told me he voted Ukip in the 1999 European elections.

    Replies: @Lurker

    Fun fact – I knew Strummer towards the end of his life, and he told me he voted Ukip in the 1999 European elections.

    Blimey.Yay for Joe!

    I bumped into him once in corner shop in Notting Hill, mid 1980s, he was buying a packet of fags, I mumbled an acknowledgement, he noted my Joy Division t-shirt. I don’t think I would be able to infer anything political in our meeting. 😉

  119. Elvis Costello was the most talented and intelligent. However he really wasn’t “punk tock”, he had too much musical talent. Still is damn good but again, a British Lefty.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @GSR

    For some reason, in my mind Costello and Joe Jackson are very close musically.
    It's a pity Joe Jackson ( the British musician, not Michael Jackson's father) never reached his full potential. They really should have been in a band together. Costello could write ballads like nobody while Joe Jackson was more of a power pop artist. And Joe Jackson was such a powerful performer ( the rare musician who sounds better live), showman and a great songwriter. One of those tall rock stars Steve writes about, like Joey Ramone and Rick Ocaseck.
    http://youtu.be/98Rm4D0x1GU

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @anon
    @GSR

    Elvis Costello started out as "pub rock", didn't he?

    I've tried listening to "pub rock" before, but I don't get what makes it so distinctive from regular pop music. It's probably one of those British distinctions that makes sense to young people with too much time on their hands. Those were really big in the 90s, in the electronica scene, scene, when there was supposedly a huge difference between jungle, drum & bass, and "Intelligent Dance", and stuff like that.

    Supposedly, though, right at the beginning of British punk, the punks and the "pub rock" guys were really closely aligned for a few weeks or so.

  120. @5371
    Steve Sailer wrote in 1979 just the same way as he does in 2016!

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jay Fink

    I noticed that too. I liked how in 1979 Steve wrote about how punk shook up the “rock establishment”. This means he has had a lifelong fascination with the theme of new movements vs the establishment.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  121. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    I took a brief look at that subculture a few years ago and they were basically “intersectional BLM” before it was cool. Some of he afropunk people are well meaning oreos who get along fine with white people but most, in my experience, are the kind of oreos who harbor a lot of resentment for those white people they spend all their time with. It’s a strange thing.

  122. @SEATAF
    This is a reiteration of the Milo Y spin on the alt right, that it's smart transgressives trying to épater les bourgeois. That's true about one percent of the time. Most alt righters are just Stormfronters by a hipper name. Calling them the Ramones? I suppose Oswald Mosley's crowd were Ramones types, too. It's distressing to see Steve Sailer, a self-described moderate, going there, implicitly placing himself under the alt-right umbrella, like Buzz Bissinger fitting himself into Gucci stilettos.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    It’s distressing to see Steve Sailer, a self-described moderate, going there, implicitly placing himself under the alt-right umbrella, like Buzz Bissinger fitting himself into Gucci stilettos.

    I’m sure you’re real torn up.

  123. @GSR
    Elvis Costello was the most talented and intelligent. However he really wasn't "punk tock", he had too much musical talent. Still is damn good but again, a British Lefty.

    Replies: @BB753, @anon

    For some reason, in my mind Costello and Joe Jackson are very close musically.
    It’s a pity Joe Jackson ( the British musician, not Michael Jackson’s father) never reached his full potential. They really should have been in a band together. Costello could write ballads like nobody while Joe Jackson was more of a power pop artist. And Joe Jackson was such a powerful performer ( the rare musician who sounds better live), showman and a great songwriter. One of those tall rock stars Steve writes about, like Joey Ramone and Rick Ocaseck.
    http://youtu.be/98Rm4D0x1GU

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @BB753

    I saw Joe Jackson a couple of times around 1980 and he was great.

    I saw a letter to the editor in the New York Times about a decade ago when Mayor Bloomberg was banning all smoking in nightclubs. Jackson wrote in to say he was a middle aged grown-up who had been making his living playing in nightclubs for over a quarter of a century and while he knew smoking was bad for his health, he enjoyed smoking and felt he ought to have the right to choose for himself.

    Replies: @Matra

  124. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    pro-White majority plus socialism: winning combination….Which is probably why American “conservatives” hate it.

    What are you, Charlie Sheen?

    I’ll pass, thanks.
     
    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory. Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    "American conservatives" have chosen the latter option.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory.

    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How’s Venezuela’s pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.

    Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    “American conservatives” have chosen the latter option.

    Of course. Doesn’t follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

    * – it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it’s a bad thing, not a good one.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How’s Venezuela’s pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.
     
    Other way around. Socialism with the right kind of people works quite well. Another lesson in HBD....

    Of course. Doesn’t follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

     

    Sure, pro-White socialism isn't the only alternative to anti-White capitalism. It's simply the best alternative....at least for White people.

    * – it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it’s a bad thing, not a good one.
     
    Dunno. Identities are defined by what they exclude.....

    Replies: @Desiderius

  125. @Lurker
    @Anonymous


    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.
     
    (((Malcolm))) claimed the whole T-shirt thing was his idea.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.
     
    John Lydon despised Nancy and says Sid was a sad, none too bright boy, with a terrible, junkie mother.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive, @Marie

    McLaren liked to claim all the “credit” for the Sex Pistols in later years , much to Lydon’s annoyance. McLaren and the Pistols used Vicious as a one man freak show. They became wealthy, Vicious ended up dead very quickly. His estate was minimal.
    Many people, then as now, think they could have done much more to help Vicious. But when you’re making lots of money from a freak show, last thing you want is to hospitalise him.
    After Vicious, the Nazi imagery was swiftly eliminated.
    McLaren may have ” handed swastikas to his Sex Pistols. ” It’s just I’ve never seen conclusive evidence of this. Of course, the evidence may be out there. . Find it, readers.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Verymuchalive

    The link in my article to an article in The Guardian recounts such an incident. I didn't do more research than that.

    , @Brutusale
    @Verymuchalive

    McLaren and his girlfriend Vivienne Westwood were first and foremost fashion people. They actually designed for and dressed the New York Dolls when they met in New York.

    Punk was about rebellion. What would be more rebellious to a London 20-year old in 1975 than to sport a Nazi image?

    http://punkrocker.org.uk/punkscene/swastica.html

    The fashion never did cross the pond. In all the time I spent at the Boston punk mecca, The Rat, the only time I saw a swastika was at a Stranglers show, and half the fans there that night were Brits.

  126. @Lurker
    @Anonymous


    Malcolm McLaren had a direct input into that film.
     
    (((Malcolm))) claimed the whole T-shirt thing was his idea.

    Sid Vicious also wore that T shirt whilst walking out with the very Jewish Nancy Spungen.
     
    John Lydon despised Nancy and says Sid was a sad, none too bright boy, with a terrible, junkie mother.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive, @Marie

    Nancy Spungen’s mom wrote an incredibly disturbing book about her that, as I recall, basically paints ol’ Nancy as a sociopath from birth.

    She was actively despised by others in the – shall we say – ’70s punk rock ‘community’ for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore. I think Richard Hell was probably the only person who spoke semi-fondly of her…

    • Replies: @anon
    @Marie

    She was actively despised by others in the – shall we say – ’70s punk rock ‘community’ for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore.

    Wow. And to think that Courtney Love voluntarily compared herself to her, while being the exact same thing.

    It's like every generation gets the Yoko Ono it deserves.

    Replies: @Marie

  127. @iffen
    @AndrewR

    so why do you punch right?

    Because you can't have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.

    Replies: @Oliver Ironside, @AndrewR

    Because you can’t have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.

    The left has hard core racists under their big tent and no one cares, so why not?

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Oliver Ironside

    The left is not HBD-woke so all they do is flail around and sometimes make things worse. HBD-woke citizenism is the only hope.

  128. @Verymuchalive
    @Lurker

    McLaren liked to claim all the "credit" for the Sex Pistols in later years , much to Lydon's annoyance. McLaren and the Pistols used Vicious as a one man freak show. They became wealthy, Vicious ended up dead very quickly. His estate was minimal.
    Many people, then as now, think they could have done much more to help Vicious. But when you're making lots of money from a freak show, last thing you want is to hospitalise him.
    After Vicious, the Nazi imagery was swiftly eliminated.
    McLaren may have " handed swastikas to his Sex Pistols. " It's just I've never seen conclusive evidence of this. Of course, the evidence may be out there. . Find it, readers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Brutusale

    The link in my article to an article in The Guardian recounts such an incident. I didn’t do more research than that.

  129. @BB753
    @GSR

    For some reason, in my mind Costello and Joe Jackson are very close musically.
    It's a pity Joe Jackson ( the British musician, not Michael Jackson's father) never reached his full potential. They really should have been in a band together. Costello could write ballads like nobody while Joe Jackson was more of a power pop artist. And Joe Jackson was such a powerful performer ( the rare musician who sounds better live), showman and a great songwriter. One of those tall rock stars Steve writes about, like Joey Ramone and Rick Ocaseck.
    http://youtu.be/98Rm4D0x1GU

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I saw Joe Jackson a couple of times around 1980 and he was great.

    I saw a letter to the editor in the New York Times about a decade ago when Mayor Bloomberg was banning all smoking in nightclubs. Jackson wrote in to say he was a middle aged grown-up who had been making his living playing in nightclubs for over a quarter of a century and while he knew smoking was bad for his health, he enjoyed smoking and felt he ought to have the right to choose for himself.

    • Replies: @Matra
    @Steve Sailer

    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I've never listened to his music) it was also due to his opposition to a smoking ban. It was his letter of resignation to CAMRA (the Campaign For Real Ale) due to their support for Britain's smoking ban in pubs. The entire letter is at this site.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Bill Jones

  130. Years ago, I remember that MoMA was obsessed with the supposed transgressive genius that inspired the so-called No Wave movement (a punk offshoot, circa late ’70s NYC).

    Supposedly it was a fearless artistic movement borne of punk rock – and, to the evident delight of their degenerate curators, with even MORE avant-garde nihilism!

    I bought this book they had for sale called “Deathtripping: The Cinema of Transgression”, written by one Jack Sargeant, who conducted various interviews with pseudo-intellectual artists of the movement – people like Nick Zedd, Richard Kern and Lydia Lunch. They were all so retarded, it’s absolutely hysterical.

    I highly recommend the book for those who enjoy a really good hate-read now and again.

  131. @AndrewR
    @anon1

    Well the right flank of the alt right certainly does not care much for Jews and wants to keep Jews out of the alt-right at all costs. I'm not 100% on board this train but I am sympathetic to the No Jews Allowed view. There is little evidence that Jews don't constitute a highly distinct population unwilling and possibly unable to contribute to the ethnic interests of whites as a whole. And what better way is there to ensure Jews stay out of the movement than utter mockery of Holocaustianity? Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we. One need not endorse jokes about genocide or calls for genocide, of course, but I'll repeat what I said above to Sailer: do not punch to the right until you are on the left. In an era when Jamie Foxx (sic) can openly joke about how fun it is to kill white people without so much as a peep of protest from the left, your complaints about the crass memes and songs by the fringe of the fringe comes off as ignorant at best if not outright dishonest.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Marc

    Disregard my “Agree” there. Meant to agree w/ the previous comment.

  132. @Oliver Ironside
    @iffen


    Because you can’t have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.
     
    The left has hard core racists under their big tent and no one cares, so why not?

    Replies: @iffen

    The left is not HBD-woke so all they do is flail around and sometimes make things worse. HBD-woke citizenism is the only hope.

  133. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Lurker
    @War for Blair Mountain

    The only time I saw The Pogues, they had Joe Strummer in the band as lead singer. This was @1989-90.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    The Strummer-Pogues blend wasn’t very good…just didn’t work. Clash-Pogues-Saw Doctors tour great idea.

    Saw Sinead O’Connor at Jones Beach.

    Joe Strummer and the Mescalaros at the Ritz..great concert!!!!…It’s on You Tube…”Rudie Rudie” on fire!!!!

  134. Steve –

    Still time to get your tickets to Prophets of Rage at the Forum on the 15th. The founders’ formative years roughly coincide with the advent of punk.

    Bloomberg Politics produced this overview:

    Generally against the “machine,” but maybe Trump garners the most hate.

    Also interesting that Tom Morello’s father, a Kenyan, left the mother after Morello was born. Sounds vaguely familiar….

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Shaq

    Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine is something like the great-nephew of Jomo Kenyatta, first president of Kenya. He may have ordered the 1969 assassination of Barack Obama Sr.'s mentor, Tom Mboya. BO Sr. was the final witness in the trial of the hitman, who suggested the "Big Man" was behind it.

  135. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Montain"] says:
    @Thea
    @El-Nathan

    Mick Jones went on to form Big Audio Dynamite which was antifa and pro - multi cultural Britain.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    Mick Jones has made comments in the past that he is-was not happy about Muslims in England.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Despite his name, Mick Jones is Jewish.

  136. @Marie
    OT: has anyone yet read Mormon cuck Glenn Beck's latest NYT op-ed, 'Empathy for Black Lives Matter'?

    Now, as his Facebook page - presumably manned by Beck himself - regularly displays stream-of-consciousness writing tending toward the embarrassingly incoherent, the question naturally arises: who's Glenn Beck's ghostwriter?

    We know that David French's wife (and David French himself?) earns major shekels ghosting for the Palin clan, among other 'Christian conservatives'. Are the Frenches behind idiocy like the following paragraph of Beck's retarded op-ed?:

    "After the massacre, I invited several Black Lives Matter believers on my show. I got to know them as people — on and off air — and invited them back again. These individuals are decent, hardworking, patriotic Americans. We don’t agree on everything, certainly not on politics; but are we not more than politics? I refuse to define each of them based on the worst among them. No movement is monolithic. The individuals I met that day are not “Black Lives Matter”; they are black Americans who feel disenfranchised and aggrieved; they are believers; they are my neighbors and my fellow citizens."

    LOL. Cuck harder, Glenn. Only a matter of time, it seems, until DeRay is extended an invite to a potluck at The Blaze HQ. Can't wait until Beck goes under...

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    Several years ago Beck admitted on his radio show that he became a Mormon because there was a women he wanted to fuck who would only fuck Mormons.

    Someone with greater testicular fortitude than I could surely find the audio.

    • Replies: @Marie
    @Bill Jones

    Glenn has always struck me as extremely unstable and probably borderline - he's got the very soul of a SJW. Supposedly he dreamed, at age thirty (!), of shooting himself to the music of Kurt Cobain. Hmmmmm....

    Mormonism, itself probably a cult and definitely laden with bizarre beliefs (somewhat mitigated by their total emphasis on maintaining a conventional, nuclear family in The Current Year) seems to be acting as less and less a viable salve for his obvious psych issues as the years go on.

  137. @Shaq
    Steve -

    Still time to get your tickets to Prophets of Rage at the Forum on the 15th. The founders' formative years roughly coincide with the advent of punk.

    Bloomberg Politics produced this overview:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYCxm0NGRFE

    Generally against the "machine," but maybe Trump garners the most hate.

    Also interesting that Tom Morello's father, a Kenyan, left the mother after Morello was born. Sounds vaguely familiar....

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine is something like the great-nephew of Jomo Kenyatta, first president of Kenya. He may have ordered the 1969 assassination of Barack Obama Sr.’s mentor, Tom Mboya. BO Sr. was the final witness in the trial of the hitman, who suggested the “Big Man” was behind it.

  138. @Anonymous
    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called 'dinosaur' bands, and relax.

    I can't say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the 'quality' of 'popular music' is 'does it still sound good and vital - like it was made yesterday - 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future'.
    I'm afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are 'trendy' at the moment - mainly because of young people - who could not have had a clue about them, 'getting into them'. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the 'great seal' of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial 'memory hole'.

    Replies: @Wolf, @Desiderius, @Daniel Williams, @dr kill, @S. Anonyia

    Man, I feel sorry for anyone still listening to Led Zep voluntarily. Come on, man.

  139. @EriK
    @anon1

    TRS? Sorry friend I don't get out much. Help me. I'm sure you don't mean Teachers Retirement System.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    therightstuff.biz

  140. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Williams
    @Anonymous


    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are ‘trendy’ at the moment – mainly because of young people – who could not have had a clue about them, ‘getting into them’.
     
    Seriously, Gramps? Those damned kids and their Ramones? Everyone member of that band is dead—including one who succumbed to that great killer of young men, prostate cancer.

    Replies: @anon

    I don’t know about the Ramones, but rediscovering old bands has been trendy for a long time. When I was in college, it was Nick Drake, who had been dead for decades.

    You (or at least I) do see young kids in bars walking around in Ramones shirts fairly often.

    I suspect a lot of it has to do with nostalgia for a time when white New Yorkers were at the forefront of pop culture.

  141. @grapesoda
    @BB753

    I could see that happening, as fossil fuel availability declines in the coming decades and people are forced to live more locally (The world becomes a bigger place? Or is it smaller?? I forget.)

    Even smart people tend to think... OK things are going this way now, so in 50 years it will be like this except more. But then black swan events happen and upset the prevailing order of the day. Who would have predicted in the first half of the 20th Century that Germany would become a peaceful nation of emasculated artsy leftists?

    Replies: @BB753, @dr kill

    You are embarrassing yourself.

  142. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Marie
    @Lurker

    Nancy Spungen's mom wrote an incredibly disturbing book about her that, as I recall, basically paints ol' Nancy as a sociopath from birth.

    She was actively despised by others in the - shall we say - '70s punk rock 'community' for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore. I think Richard Hell was probably the only person who spoke semi-fondly of her...

    Replies: @anon

    She was actively despised by others in the – shall we say – ’70s punk rock ‘community’ for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore.

    Wow. And to think that Courtney Love voluntarily compared herself to her, while being the exact same thing.

    It’s like every generation gets the Yoko Ono it deserves.

    • Replies: @Marie
    @anon

    You would have to be both a hugely narcissistic *and* semi-literate moron in order to idolize the pathologically abnormal and vile Nancy Spungen.

    Sounds just like the hugely untalented Courtney, who rode Kurt's coattails from the very beginning. And everybody in Nirvana hates her, too. Looks like she got her wish....

    The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance 'art' is not art

    Replies: @Kylie

  143. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @GSR
    Elvis Costello was the most talented and intelligent. However he really wasn't "punk tock", he had too much musical talent. Still is damn good but again, a British Lefty.

    Replies: @BB753, @anon

    Elvis Costello started out as “pub rock”, didn’t he?

    I’ve tried listening to “pub rock” before, but I don’t get what makes it so distinctive from regular pop music. It’s probably one of those British distinctions that makes sense to young people with too much time on their hands. Those were really big in the 90s, in the electronica scene, scene, when there was supposedly a huge difference between jungle, drum & bass, and “Intelligent Dance”, and stuff like that.

    Supposedly, though, right at the beginning of British punk, the punks and the “pub rock” guys were really closely aligned for a few weeks or so.

  144. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The good news for Hillary is that she won’t have to worry about the alt-right much longer. Google is on the case!

    https://theintercept.com/2016/09/07/google-program-to-deradicalize-jihadis-will-be-used-for-right-wing-american-extremists-next/

    The bad news is, they’re apparently going to focus only on the violent right-wing extremists. So, basically, millions of dollars to stop the next Dylann Roof and maybe another couple of guys.

  145. No surprise that Alt-Right/anti-globalism is taking off in Anglosphere. Brexit, Trump, Australia’s border policies.

    With long arrears to make good,
    Before the Saxon began to flake.

  146. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha
    @Spotted Toad

    The artists/writers/filmmakers/angsters were priced out of Lower East Side by 1990's. King Tut's Wawa Hut, a bar/performance space that could have been called, 'Alt-Right,' is long gone. The whole area is gentrified, thanks to bankster culture - why do rich people always want to hang around the creative types? CBGB's site is now DBGB's, a restaurant. The gentrification is complete, except for the bums and homeless people, who shamelessly keep pan-handling there. But there was nothing like the 70-80's of NYC fun!

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I went to King Tut’s Wawa Hut frequently back in 1988, the year of the Tompkins Square Park riot. That area was crawling with drug pushers, homeless and skinheads so I’m not nostalgic for that time and place. I seem to recall the Pyramid Club was nearby and it was at times overrun with trannies so just one more good reason no one has invented a wayback machine.

  147. @Anonymous
    Well put it this way,

    Even at my advanced age, at the end of a long day, I can put on my headphones and listen to the 50 year old music of one of those much-excoriated but talented musician, songwriter, so-called 'dinosaur' bands, and relax.

    I can't say the same for anything The Ramones ever did.

    The real test of the 'quality' of 'popular music' is 'does it still sound good and vital - like it was made yesterday - 30, 40, 50 or more years into the future'.
    I'm afraid, The Ramones score badly on this measure.

    Yes, I know that the The Ramones are 'trendy' at the moment - mainly because of young people - who could not have had a clue about them, 'getting into them'. That phenomenon was mainly down to the design of a T-Shirt, you know the one parodying the 'great seal' of the USA. Before that T-shirt, they were heading down the proverbial 'memory hole'.

    Replies: @Wolf, @Desiderius, @Daniel Williams, @dr kill, @S. Anonyia

    I agree.

    I’m in my mid 20s and the “dinosaur” 70s prog/classic rock bands sound pretty good to me and always have. Not my favorite type of music, but it gives me pleasant feelings when I hear it on the radio or in the background at a store/restaurant. New Wave evokes the same thing.

    Punk? Meh. Sounds really try-hard and unmusical. It annoyed me when I was watching Stranger Things and their way of showing one of the main teenage characters was “edgy/different” was showing him listening to the Ramones with his little brother.

    Maybe it’s where I live or the fact that I’m just a little too old to have parents who listened to punk, but I don’t know ANY young people with nostalgia for punk bands.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @S. Anonyia


    Punk? Meh. Sounds really try-hard and unmusical.
     
    This is not at all personal, but every time I gain a small insight into how somebody born at a different time from me might experience things completely differently from the way I did, I feel the Grim Reaper has taken one step closer to me.

    Anon:

    “I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.”

    This is probably why, for the past few years, there’s been this big push to get a black group from Detroit, called Death, recognized as the first punk group.
     

    It's really only one song, "Politicians in my eyes ". I don't think it's a race thing. It's probably because they were so utterly different from any contemporaries in black music from Detroit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl3FstCc_OY

  148. @iffen
    @AndrewR

    so why do you punch right?

    Because you can't have hard core racists and Nazis under your big tent, they leave little piles of doo-doo everywhere.

    Replies: @Oliver Ironside, @AndrewR

    BLM, CAIR and other assorted leftist client groups leave big piles of doo-doo in the left tent.

  149. @Gunnar von Cowtown

    I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.
     
    One could make an argument that (with the exception of hip-hop) all youth subcultures of the past 50 years were merely fragmented implicit white identity movements.
    -rockabilly
    -hippie
    -punk
    -skinhead
    -goth
    -metal
    -grunge
    -alt-rock
    -indy
    -emo

    Have there been any youth subcultures since emo?
    -gamer?
    -4chan?

    Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp, @27 year old, @Anonymous, @Seneca

    Surprised nobody mentioned country and country rock. It is practically all White 24/7/365.

    This latter style was kick started by bands like the Eagles and the Byrds in the 1970s.

    Also related to this style is Jam Band music started in the 1970s by bands like the Allman Brothers Band and the Grateful Dead .

    And don’t forget the the Good Old Boy Southern Rebel Rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Wet Willie and others who are a sub genre of country rock and blues rock.

    Country and Country Rock has very few non White artists.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Seneca

    uh, because I'm in a fighting mood (short-lived, promise) I should mention that Darius Rucker/Hootie and the Blowfish, is excellent, singing in a folky-like band - have always loved their music. And, I love Tracy Chapman's soulful songs. Also, Lyle Lovett has many contributors/singers, not to mention, "diverse" long-time artists...big-time musicians in his band. Ok, these musicians/bands were not classically country, but they were 'pulling' in that direction. These are but a few of musicians/bands who are part of country and country rock; there are more musicians, but like many artists, they are not "headliners" or super famous.

    Blacks, vis-a-vis rock n' roll, jazz, or soul (duh- this is all THEIR contribution to music) are intricately entwined into the history of popular music for decades before the 70's punk era (and after). I mean, the term, rock n' roll comes from Black culture.

    And, in the 70's - albeit, white punk rock bands, and white bands of rock n' roll outnumbered anyone else: Prince, MJ, Barry White, EW& F, Diana Ross, Gloria Gaynor, too many black musicians/artists (too many to list) added to the utter weirdness of the 70's. The late 70's and early 80's was an excellent time to be young and happy - was this America's Golden Age???. I went from going to a concert of the Marshall Tucker Band to going to see Diana Ross in The City; with a smattering of Loggins & Messina, Springsteen, James Brown, Elton John - yeah, Rolling Stones, ELP ( I know, I know!), Jethro Tull and the Ramones, Dead Kennedy's, or Clash (when I lived in London). I went to many concerts. I went to the accidental Dead concert in 1981 at the Melkweg in Amsterdam in the autumn of 1981.

    I think music, like art, is a hybrid master beast of craziness who chooses minds over matter. Haha! Good night all, and I am not high! - I'm channeling, remembering those days in the 70's when I had not a care in the world! ...but I was younger then.

    , @flyingtiger
    @Seneca

    The Marshall Tucker band has two Vietnam veterans in it. They were the first successful southern rock band.

  150. @anon
    @Marie

    She was actively despised by others in the – shall we say – ’70s punk rock ‘community’ for being an incredibly irritating and opportunistic groupie whore.

    Wow. And to think that Courtney Love voluntarily compared herself to her, while being the exact same thing.

    It's like every generation gets the Yoko Ono it deserves.

    Replies: @Marie

    You would have to be both a hugely narcissistic *and* semi-literate moron in order to idolize the pathologically abnormal and vile Nancy Spungen.

    Sounds just like the hugely untalented Courtney, who rode Kurt’s coattails from the very beginning. And everybody in Nirvana hates her, too. Looks like she got her wish….

    The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance ‘art’ is not art

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Marie

    "The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance ‘art’ is not art"

    Yes and the cretin John Lennon is Reason #1--in fact the only reason--why we ever learned who Yoko Ono aka The Screech is. It is solely due to his creepy mommy issues that awareness of her was inflicted on an unsuspecting public. His slight talent doesn't begin to compensate for that outrage.

    Replies: @Marie

  151. @Bill Jones
    @Marie

    Several years ago Beck admitted on his radio show that he became a Mormon because there was a women he wanted to fuck who would only fuck Mormons.

    Someone with greater testicular fortitude than I could surely find the audio.

    Replies: @Marie

    Glenn has always struck me as extremely unstable and probably borderline – he’s got the very soul of a SJW. Supposedly he dreamed, at age thirty (!), of shooting himself to the music of Kurt Cobain. Hmmmmm….

    Mormonism, itself probably a cult and definitely laden with bizarre beliefs (somewhat mitigated by their total emphasis on maintaining a conventional, nuclear family in The Current Year) seems to be acting as less and less a viable salve for his obvious psych issues as the years go on.

  152. Just because punk is aggressive and pseudo working class doesn’t mean it’s politically incorrect. Many people on the far left love punk rock (due to its shock value and egalitarian attitudes to musicianship) but their goals are the exact opposite of the alternative right. Punk is simply an aggressive, egalitarian form of popular music that is popular among a certain percentage of the white middle class. Prog is a dynamic, non-egalitarian form of rock music popular among another section of the white middle class.

    Steve also overlooks the fact that punk is unpopular among the white working class because of its lack of musical virtuosity. A lot of working class whites are impressed by musicians with high levels of musical skill, which is why working class headbangers are more likely to listen to a prog bank like Pink Floyd or Porcupine Tree than a three cord punk band like The Clash.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    @unpc downunder

    Well said.

  153. @James O'Meara
    Blah blah blah.

    Punk rock is no more "white" than any other negro-derived guitar-based music (ask a real White musician like Varg Vikernes about that).

    It's not even the most popular white music: I'm certain that Kenny G has sold more albums (remember them?) than every punk band combined.

    It fulfilled certain Capitalist requirements at the time, and was then tossed aside in favor of the equally annoying but genuinely negroid rap(e) "music."

    Actual white music (Prog, New Age, Scott Walker) is no more popular on the right than in the popular "culture," BECAUSE it's White and you have all been taught to worship negroes.

    Conservative punk rock fans = cucks

    Replies: @syonredux, @Antonymous

    Punk rock is no more “white” than any other negro-derived guitar-based music

    Dunno. It certainly repels Blacks……

  154. @Desiderius
    @syonredux


    Which illustrates my point. Pro-White socialism is the road to victory.
     
    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How's Venezuela's pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.

    Anti-White capitalism is the path to defeat.

    “American conservatives” have chosen the latter option.
     

    Of course. Doesn't follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

    * - it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it's a bad thing, not a good one.

    Replies: @syonredux

    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How’s Venezuela’s pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.

    Other way around. Socialism with the right kind of people works quite well. Another lesson in HBD….

    Of course. Doesn’t follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

    Sure, pro-White socialism isn’t the only alternative to anti-White capitalism. It’s simply the best alternative….at least for White people.

    * – it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it’s a bad thing, not a good one.

    Dunno. Identities are defined by what they exclude…..

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You're being argumentative.

    Replies: @syonredux

  155. Anonymous [AKA "Gristoffson"] says:

    I’m pretty sure calling something subversive/anti-establishment “punk rock” that isn’t punk was embarrassing even when punk began.

  156. @unpc downunder
    Just because punk is aggressive and pseudo working class doesn't mean it's politically incorrect. Many people on the far left love punk rock (due to its shock value and egalitarian attitudes to musicianship) but their goals are the exact opposite of the alternative right. Punk is simply an aggressive, egalitarian form of popular music that is popular among a certain percentage of the white middle class. Prog is a dynamic, non-egalitarian form of rock music popular among another section of the white middle class.

    Steve also overlooks the fact that punk is unpopular among the white working class because of its lack of musical virtuosity. A lot of working class whites are impressed by musicians with high levels of musical skill, which is why working class headbangers are more likely to listen to a prog bank like Pink Floyd or Porcupine Tree than a three cord punk band like The Clash.

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan

    Well said.

  157. As a parent of a teenage boy, I was startled to realize that there are no white pop culture icons anymore.
    All pop stars are black, and there are no rock stars at all.

    Top box office draw this year is The Rock, followed by Kevin Hart. Before that, Will Smith. Long gone are the days of Harrison Ford, as the new Star Wars so pointedly reminded us.

    In sports, the NBA dominates in terms of cool and pop culture. People may like Payton Manning or Tom Brady, but no one thinks of them as cool. (just the opposite, really)

    no Captain Kirk or Jean-Luc Picard
    no James Dean or even The Fonz

    weird, huh?

  158. @Steve Sailer
    @BB753

    I saw Joe Jackson a couple of times around 1980 and he was great.

    I saw a letter to the editor in the New York Times about a decade ago when Mayor Bloomberg was banning all smoking in nightclubs. Jackson wrote in to say he was a middle aged grown-up who had been making his living playing in nightclubs for over a quarter of a century and while he knew smoking was bad for his health, he enjoyed smoking and felt he ought to have the right to choose for himself.

    Replies: @Matra

    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I’ve never listened to his music) it was also due to his opposition to a smoking ban. It was his letter of resignation to CAMRA (the Campaign For Real Ale) due to their support for Britain’s smoking ban in pubs. The entire letter is at this site.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Matra


    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I’ve never listened to his music)...
     
    Time to increase the video clip count in iSteve threads, which has been dropping off lately (with Mr. Sailer's gracious permission, of course.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEUlh-UGdo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBJUHvQPFTI

    Replies: @Matra

    , @Bill Jones
    @Matra

    CAMRA is the worlds best example of people successfully fighting against corporatism.

    There are many reasons to despise The Grauniad but their running the column Boston on Beer is to be eternally lauded.

    (And his phrase "The Great Watney Desert" is one for the ages too)

  159. @Seneca
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    Surprised nobody mentioned country and country rock. It is practically all White 24/7/365.

    This latter style was kick started by bands like the Eagles and the Byrds in the 1970s.

    Also related to this style is Jam Band music started in the 1970s by bands like the Allman Brothers Band and the Grateful Dead .

    And don't forget the the Good Old Boy Southern Rebel Rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Wet Willie and others who are a sub genre of country rock and blues rock.

    Country and Country Rock has very few non White artists.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @flyingtiger

    uh, because I’m in a fighting mood (short-lived, promise) I should mention that Darius Rucker/Hootie and the Blowfish, is excellent, singing in a folky-like band – have always loved their music. And, I love Tracy Chapman’s soulful songs. Also, Lyle Lovett has many contributors/singers, not to mention, “diverse” long-time artists…big-time musicians in his band. Ok, these musicians/bands were not classically country, but they were ‘pulling’ in that direction. These are but a few of musicians/bands who are part of country and country rock; there are more musicians, but like many artists, they are not “headliners” or super famous.

    Blacks, vis-a-vis rock n’ roll, jazz, or soul (duh- this is all THEIR contribution to music) are intricately entwined into the history of popular music for decades before the 70’s punk era (and after). I mean, the term, rock n’ roll comes from Black culture.

    And, in the 70’s – albeit, white punk rock bands, and white bands of rock n’ roll outnumbered anyone else: Prince, MJ, Barry White, EW& F, Diana Ross, Gloria Gaynor, too many black musicians/artists (too many to list) added to the utter weirdness of the 70’s. The late 70’s and early 80’s was an excellent time to be young and happy – was this America’s Golden Age???. I went from going to a concert of the Marshall Tucker Band to going to see Diana Ross in The City; with a smattering of Loggins & Messina, Springsteen, James Brown, Elton John – yeah, Rolling Stones, ELP ( I know, I know!), Jethro Tull and the Ramones, Dead Kennedy’s, or Clash (when I lived in London). I went to many concerts. I went to the accidental Dead concert in 1981 at the Melkweg in Amsterdam in the autumn of 1981.

    I think music, like art, is a hybrid master beast of craziness who chooses minds over matter. Haha! Good night all, and I am not high! – I’m channeling, remembering those days in the 70’s when I had not a care in the world! …but I was younger then.

  160. @Cattle Guard
    Not rock, but from our friends in India, a song dedicated to Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPQeQpuyel0

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Not rock, but from our friends in India, a song dedicated to Trump.

    I can’t find a translation online, but apparently the song is all positive and admiring.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/have-you-heard-baba-sehgals-latest-song-on-donald-trump-sounds-like-he-loves-him-3004027/

  161. @S. Anonyia
    @Anonymous

    I agree.

    I'm in my mid 20s and the "dinosaur" 70s prog/classic rock bands sound pretty good to me and always have. Not my favorite type of music, but it gives me pleasant feelings when I hear it on the radio or in the background at a store/restaurant. New Wave evokes the same thing.

    Punk? Meh. Sounds really try-hard and unmusical. It annoyed me when I was watching Stranger Things and their way of showing one of the main teenage characters was "edgy/different" was showing him listening to the Ramones with his little brother.

    Maybe it's where I live or the fact that I'm just a little too old to have parents who listened to punk, but I don't know ANY young people with nostalgia for punk bands.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Punk? Meh. Sounds really try-hard and unmusical.

    This is not at all personal, but every time I gain a small insight into how somebody born at a different time from me might experience things completely differently from the way I did, I feel the Grim Reaper has taken one step closer to me.

    Anon:

    “I’d add that the early punks, especially The Clash, even though they were a famously leftist band, were also an implicit white identity movement.”

    This is probably why, for the past few years, there’s been this big push to get a black group from Detroit, called Death, recognized as the first punk group.

    It’s really only one song, “Politicians in my eyes “. I don’t think it’s a race thing. It’s probably because they were so utterly different from any contemporaries in black music from Detroit.

  162. @War for Blair Mountain
    I betcha the National Press Club wouldn't ban La Raza from having a press conference.



    I betcha the National Press Club wouldn't ban MECHA from holding a press conference.




    I betcha the National Press Conference wouldn't ban Neyanyahou from holding a press confrence.

    Replies: @Thea

    Taylor needs to use the fact he was banned as a selling point. It’s worked for others before.

  163. @Matra
    @Steve Sailer

    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I've never listened to his music) it was also due to his opposition to a smoking ban. It was his letter of resignation to CAMRA (the Campaign For Real Ale) due to their support for Britain's smoking ban in pubs. The entire letter is at this site.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Bill Jones

    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I’ve never listened to his music)…

    Time to increase the video clip count in iSteve threads, which has been dropping off lately (with Mr. Sailer’s gracious permission, of course.)

    • Replies: @Matra
    @PiltdownMan

    I'm familiar with a few of his songs as they got radio airplay back in the 80s. I just meant that I'd never actively listened to him or paid much attention to his existence.

    Anyway, in that letter he sounded more thoughtful than the vast majority of pop/rock performers I've read, seen, or heard being interviewed.

  164. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    And my point is that such a victory is worth about as much as empty sex with whores and a coke habit. How’s Venezuela’s pro-Andean socialism working out? The problems with socialism are human ones, not ethnic ones.
     
    Other way around. Socialism with the right kind of people works quite well. Another lesson in HBD....

    Of course. Doesn’t follow that socialism (or even pro-whitism*, whatever that means) is the only alternative.

     

    Sure, pro-White socialism isn't the only alternative to anti-White capitalism. It's simply the best alternative....at least for White people.

    * – it takes more than standing up to the bigotry of others to constitute a national identity.

    The truth I alleged is horrible because it’s a bad thing, not a good one.
     
    Dunno. Identities are defined by what they exclude.....

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You’re being argumentative.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You’re being argumentative.
     
    More like advancing an argument.

    Capitalism has proven itself to be anti-White.

    Therefore, Whites need to turn to pro-White socialism.

    It offers the best chance of survival for the White race.

    Were he still around, Jack London would agree.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

  165. @Jed
    @Anonymous

    Milo.

    Replies: @gruff

    Milo is a fraud.

  166. @PiltdownMan
    @Matra


    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I’ve never listened to his music)...
     
    Time to increase the video clip count in iSteve threads, which has been dropping off lately (with Mr. Sailer's gracious permission, of course.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEUlh-UGdo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBJUHvQPFTI

    Replies: @Matra

    I’m familiar with a few of his songs as they got radio airplay back in the 80s. I just meant that I’d never actively listened to him or paid much attention to his existence.

    Anyway, in that letter he sounded more thoughtful than the vast majority of pop/rock performers I’ve read, seen, or heard being interviewed.

  167. @Rob McX
    Johnny Rotten's not looking too good these days.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Kylie, @backup, @Anonymous, @Bill, @ATX Hipster

    Shane MacGowan, on the other hand, is looking somewhat less likely to die at any moment than he used to.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @ATX Hipster

    shane MacGowan was supposed to be on death's door when I saw the Pogues in 1988.

    Replies: @Rob McX

  168. East Coast bias; X, the Blasters, Black Flag, the Germs, all had significant impact on Punk, and produced some great records, as did Agent Orange.

    Of course, to make great music that lasts, one cannot shoot up heroin all day. Doing stupid things makes one stupid.

    Which is blaming the JEWSSSSS for everything does. Makes you stupid. Its the mental equivalent of shooting up heroin all day. If the Romans had killed every Jew during the revolt; there would be no significant difference today. IF most White women particularly the Upper classes had a family and children and a household to look after starting in their mid twenties; things would be radically different.

    Punk depended on young men, and young men being rewarded for being rebellious, shocking, and kicking dirt right in the face of respectability. Attitude mattered more than virtuosity and the music was fast and aggressive; music to mosh to not dance like a disco inferno. And yes it was very anti-Black and anti-Gay, the two linked in gayer than gay and Blacker than Black disco.

    Can the same dynamic work today? I dunno. Maybe. It will depend on how many alt-righters are seen to be rewarded. By sex, bluntly.

  169. @Seneca
    @Gunnar von Cowtown

    Surprised nobody mentioned country and country rock. It is practically all White 24/7/365.

    This latter style was kick started by bands like the Eagles and the Byrds in the 1970s.

    Also related to this style is Jam Band music started in the 1970s by bands like the Allman Brothers Band and the Grateful Dead .

    And don't forget the the Good Old Boy Southern Rebel Rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Wet Willie and others who are a sub genre of country rock and blues rock.

    Country and Country Rock has very few non White artists.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @flyingtiger

    The Marshall Tucker band has two Vietnam veterans in it. They were the first successful southern rock band.

  170. @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You're being argumentative.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You’re being argumentative.

    More like advancing an argument.

    Capitalism has proven itself to be anti-White.

    Therefore, Whites need to turn to pro-White socialism.

    It offers the best chance of survival for the White race.

    Were he still around, Jack London would agree.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    @syonredux

    I think that you cannot make social democracy work unless you have a feeling of national solidarity that you onlyl get with low immigration. Socialism is not so much pro white as pro nation state. In places like Scandinavia, Germany and Canada social democracy has worked reasonably well. I don't think that it will continue to work well with mass immigration.

    Venezuela is not a great example of socialism; however before this it wasn't a great example of capitalism either.

  171. @War for Blair Mountain
    @Thea

    Mick Jones has made comments in the past that he is-was not happy about Muslims in England.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Despite his name, Mick Jones is Jewish.

  172. @reiner Tor
    @syonredux

    1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized (not on racial grounds, simply because of failing mental tests and being on welfare they were not allowed to have more than one kid I think), all the while being fiercely neutral (though of course tilting to the West for obvious reasons), keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It's quite close to an ideal society in my mind. All this in a more or less free, peaceful and democratic society, without genocidal violence, totalitarian dictatorship, overt racialist or nationalist propaganda, etc. (Though, as Sweden's later fate shows, probably they'd needed some overt such propaganda, after all.)

    Replies: @Kylie

    “1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized…all the while being fiercely neutral… keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It’s quite close to an ideal society in my mind. ”

    If a society that sends a lot of aid to the third world is quite close to an ideal society in your mind, then your mind is unhinged.

    • Replies: @5371
    @Kylie

    Well, it's better than bringing the third world home, that's for sure.

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @reiner Tor
    @Kylie

    It depends what the aid is used for. People have suggested family planning here. I'd add eugenic programs.

    The problem is, you can't help them usefully without acknowledging that they are, at present, biologically inferior.

    On the other hand, in the 1960s the third world contained a lot of places that weren't much inferior, just very poor, like Korea or Taiwan.

  173. @ATX Hipster
    @Rob McX

    Shane MacGowan, on the other hand, is looking somewhat less likely to die at any moment than he used to.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    shane MacGowan was supposed to be on death’s door when I saw the Pogues in 1988.

  174. @Marie
    @anon

    You would have to be both a hugely narcissistic *and* semi-literate moron in order to idolize the pathologically abnormal and vile Nancy Spungen.

    Sounds just like the hugely untalented Courtney, who rode Kurt's coattails from the very beginning. And everybody in Nirvana hates her, too. Looks like she got her wish....

    The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance 'art' is not art

    Replies: @Kylie

    “The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance ‘art’ is not art”

    Yes and the cretin John Lennon is Reason #1–in fact the only reason–why we ever learned who Yoko Ono aka The Screech is. It is solely due to his creepy mommy issues that awareness of her was inflicted on an unsuspecting public. His slight talent doesn’t begin to compensate for that outrage.

    • Replies: @Marie
    @Kylie

    She admitted at one point that John loved her masculine-looking visage precisely because he was (imagine my shock) closeted.

    She's the reason why modern art is such a fraudulent joke - Yoko's fellow performance 'artists' stuff yams up their butt and smear chocolate syrup over their naked bodies while screaming incoherently about suicide, and then have the temerity to actually claim they're just artists deserving of federal funds (see: Karen Finley and the NEA Four)

    Replies: @Kylie

  175. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Although I’ve never much cared for his music John Lydon always makes for an entertaining chat show guest, and his biographical books make for hilarious reading – he really pulls no punches.
    That said, I more than suspect him of embroidering the truth.
    Lydon goes to great pains to present himself as growing up in a sub Dickensian world of poverty in 1960s London. He even speaks of shoeless children in mid winter. Now that, I can personally attest, is simply just not true. I never ever saw a single shoeless child in my life. Compulsory education was rigidly enforced, and a shoeless child would simply be ‘picked up upon’ by his/her teachers. And besides, ‘family allowance’ money paid to mothers from the local post office was paid universally to every single mother in the country, from the richest to the poorest.The idea of paying it to mothers was to essentially to stop such Dickensian abuses as a dad using the kids’ shoe money as beer money.

    Lydon went on to say that his father worked as a deep sea diver, for a spell, off the the rigs during the 1960s North Sea gas boom.
    Now, in 1960s Britain a diver working off the gas rigs was just about the highest paid employee going, in any industry.
    I stopped believing Lydon’s tales of deprivation after that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

  176. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Not such much ‘punk rock’ but more on the lines of ‘peasants’ revolt’ – and I don’t mean peasant in the general derogatory sense used nowadays by ‘superior’ people.
    The elitists these days The Economist types have more than just a little of the Marie Antoinette arrogant ‘let them eat cake’ about them.

  177. @Steve Sailer
    @ATX Hipster

    shane MacGowan was supposed to be on death's door when I saw the Pogues in 1988.

    Replies: @Rob McX

  178. @Anonymous
    Although I've never much cared for his music John Lydon always makes for an entertaining chat show guest, and his biographical books make for hilarious reading - he really pulls no punches.
    That said, I more than suspect him of embroidering the truth.
    Lydon goes to great pains to present himself as growing up in a sub Dickensian world of poverty in 1960s London. He even speaks of shoeless children in mid winter. Now that, I can personally attest, is simply just not true. I never ever saw a single shoeless child in my life. Compulsory education was rigidly enforced, and a shoeless child would simply be 'picked up upon' by his/her teachers. And besides, 'family allowance' money paid to mothers from the local post office was paid universally to every single mother in the country, from the richest to the poorest.The idea of paying it to mothers was to essentially to stop such Dickensian abuses as a dad using the kids' shoe money as beer money.

    Lydon went on to say that his father worked as a deep sea diver, for a spell, off the the rigs during the 1960s North Sea gas boom.
    Now, in 1960s Britain a diver working off the gas rigs was just about the highest paid employee going, in any industry.
    I stopped believing Lydon's tales of deprivation after that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer’s, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer’s dad’s cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 — he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe’s dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it’s called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe’s ostensible leftism and the more the name “Rudyard Kipling” comes to mind. Joe’s dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling’s protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe’s last released song during his lifetime was “Minstrel Boy,” which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott’s Somali war movie “Black Hawk Down.” “Minstrel Boy” is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston’s adaptation of Kipling’s “The Man Who Would Be King.”

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you’ll find him

    His father’s sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    “Land of Song!” cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) “Tho’ all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!”

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman’s chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne’er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said “No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here’s an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    The climactic scene in "The Man Who Would Be King:"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apfaDqcf2FA

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    The climactic scene in "The Man Who Would Be King:"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apfaDqcf2FA

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I'm pretty sure that Joe Strummer was on a proverbial 'guilt trip' and was genuinely distressed by his privileged upbringing as compared to the harsh reality millions of Britons faced in daily life.

    Out of the pistols, Steve Jones seemed to have been the authentic Cockney waif - a petty criminal from a broken home who more or less had to survive on his own from childhood.
    Jones should have been the 'angry young man' - perhaps it's no surprise that has struggled with terrible heroin habit his entire adult life - but his ambition was to make the embryonic Pistols into a 'feel good' Small Faced, Rod Stewart, 'Jack-the-lad' sort of band, incidentally Jones freely admits to being a 'sex addict' in his youth.
    Lydon took the Pistols into that 'weird' direction we now call 'punk'.

    , @Pat Hannagan
    @Steve Sailer

    Please don't turn Joe Strummer into your next ululation of the English.

    Fuck it, you are aren't you.

    I will never understand Anglophilia.

    https://youtu.be/m-H0uIH5HHQ

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan

    , @Matra
    @Steve Sailer

    Joe’s dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling’s protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    According to some sites his father, Ronald Mellor, actually attended La Martiniere College in Lucknow, which was obviously St Xavier's in Kim. His name doesn't appear on Wikipedia's notable Martinians list.

    There are also La Martiniere schools in Calcutta and Lyon, France. The former was attended by Merle Oberon, the latter by the Lumiere brothers.

    , @syonredux
    @Steve Sailer

    Stewart Copeland (of THE POLICE fame) has a similar family background:


    Stewart Armstrong Copeland was born in Alexandria, Virginia on July 16, 1952,[5][6] the youngest of four children of CIA officer Miles Copeland, Jr. and Scottish archaeologist Lorraine Adie. The family moved to Cairo, Egypt, a few months after his birth, and Copeland spent his formative years in the Middle East. In 1957, the family moved to Beirut, Lebanon,[7] and Copeland attended the American Community School there. He started taking drum lessons at age twelve and was playing drums for school dances within a year. Later he moved to England and attended Millfield[7] from 1967 to 1969. Copeland went to college in California, attending United States International University and University of California, Berkeley. Returning to England, he worked as road manager for the progressive rock band Curved Air's 1974 reunion tour, and then as drummer for the band during 1975 and 1976.
     
    His father:

    Miles Axe Copeland, Jr. (July 16, 1916 – January 14, 1991) was an American musician, businessman, and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer best known for his close personal relationship with Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser and his "controversial books on intelligence," including The Game of Nations: The Amorality of Power Politics (1969) and The Game Player: Confessions of the CIA's Original Political Operative (1989).[1] In his memoirs, Copeland recounted his involvement in numerous covert operations, including the March 1949 Syrian coup d'état and the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.[2] A conservative influenced by the ideas of James Burnham, Copeland was associated with the American political magazine National Review.[3][4] In a 1986 Rolling Stone interview, he stated: "Unlike The New York Times, Victor Marchetti and Philip Agee, my complaint has been that the CIA isn't overthrowing enough anti-American governments or assassinating enough anti-American leaders, but I guess I'm getting old."
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Copeland_Jr.

    His mother:

    Lorraine Copeland (born Elizabeth Lorraine Adie, 1921, died 27 April 2013[1]) was an archaeologist specialising in the Palaeolithic period of the Near East. She was a secret agent with the Special Operations Executive during World War II.
     

    Copeland worked for British Intelligence during the Second World War, in the Special Operations Executive.[3] She met her American husband, Miles Copeland, Jr., during this period, when he was based in the U.K. undertaking counter-intelligence for the OSS (Office of Strategic Services). They married on 25 September 1942 and soon afterwards Miles' work took them to the Near East, particularly Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, and it was whilst in this area that Copeland first developed her interest in archaeology.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_Copeland
  179. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    The climactic scene in “The Man Who Would Be King:”

  180. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    The climactic scene in “The Man Who Would Be King:”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    Here's another version:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYjmfx0ubNU

  181. @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    The climactic scene in "The Man Who Would Be King:"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apfaDqcf2FA

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Here’s another version:

  182. @George
    "how rock should get on track again. "

    Is rock back on track? Punk rock seems to be last rock music genre before the whole category fell into repetition and nostalgia. White music in general has stopped, Garth Brooks being tbe last important country western performer.

    Trump should target Afropunk fans.

    http://www.afropunk.com

    Replies: @Boomstick, @reiner Tor, @Desiderius, @Thea, @OilcanFloyd, @ogunsiron, @Captain Tripps

    You should check out Of Monsters and Men. Icelandic folk rock; I’ve seen them live; they are superb performers. Typical lefty prog in their politics, but their musical themes plumb Icelandic/Norse pagan folklore.

    • Replies: @Tacitus2016
    @Captain Tripps

    Yes they're not bad. There have been a few singers in the past few years who sing in that wimpy voice. It's a thing. Spirit of the times. Intersex.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RBumgq5yVrA

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=foE1mO2yM04

    Makes one long for grunge.

    Replies: @Tacitus2016

  183. @Captain Tripps
    @George

    You should check out Of Monsters and Men. Icelandic folk rock; I've seen them live; they are superb performers. Typical lefty prog in their politics, but their musical themes plumb Icelandic/Norse pagan folklore.

    https://youtu.be/tBkkplOiSjQ

    https://youtu.be/A76a_LNIYwE

    Replies: @Tacitus2016

    Yes they’re not bad. There have been a few singers in the past few years who sing in that wimpy voice. It’s a thing. Spirit of the times. Intersex.

    Makes one long for grunge.

    • Replies: @Tacitus2016
    @Tacitus2016

    Was forgetting that the girl shares vocals. Was thinking of this. Low T delivery.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0gEVaniPOmU

  184. @Tacitus2016
    @Captain Tripps

    Yes they're not bad. There have been a few singers in the past few years who sing in that wimpy voice. It's a thing. Spirit of the times. Intersex.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RBumgq5yVrA

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=foE1mO2yM04

    Makes one long for grunge.

    Replies: @Tacitus2016

    Was forgetting that the girl shares vocals. Was thinking of this. Low T delivery.

  185. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    I’m pretty sure that Joe Strummer was on a proverbial ‘guilt trip’ and was genuinely distressed by his privileged upbringing as compared to the harsh reality millions of Britons faced in daily life.

    Out of the pistols, Steve Jones seemed to have been the authentic Cockney waif – a petty criminal from a broken home who more or less had to survive on his own from childhood.
    Jones should have been the ‘angry young man’ – perhaps it’s no surprise that has struggled with terrible heroin habit his entire adult life – but his ambition was to make the embryonic Pistols into a ‘feel good’ Small Faced, Rod Stewart, ‘Jack-the-lad’ sort of band, incidentally Jones freely admits to being a ‘sex addict’ in his youth.
    Lydon took the Pistols into that ‘weird’ direction we now call ‘punk’.

  186. @Wolf
    @Anonymous

    I would bet a lot more youngsters like those punk bands more than some of the old dinosaur bands, such as the example Steve brought up, Emerson Lake and Palmer, who sound dated to my ears and also to my 20 year old son's ears. He also loves The Ramones and The Clash, along with The Cure and some others.

    ELP regularly used the very latest electronic instruments which were cutting edge at the time, but ran the risk of becoming dated, which Emerson's Moog synthesizer and Palmer's drum synthesizer (or whatever it's called) now do. You never see stuff like this today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6vN9nadqtQ

    Replies: @Brutusale

    An appreciation of form doesn’t preclude appreciation of chaos and release. This from a guy who saw both the Ramones AND Emerson, Lake & Palmer multiple times. You’ve read Shakespeare and trashy fiction, right?

    I doubt Greg Lake ever broke a bass string. I saw Dee Dee break THREE in one set! He had a roadie in the wings with an intact Precision, and he would run out on stage with the spare. Was it in tune? Who knew, or cared?

  187. @Verymuchalive
    @Lurker

    McLaren liked to claim all the "credit" for the Sex Pistols in later years , much to Lydon's annoyance. McLaren and the Pistols used Vicious as a one man freak show. They became wealthy, Vicious ended up dead very quickly. His estate was minimal.
    Many people, then as now, think they could have done much more to help Vicious. But when you're making lots of money from a freak show, last thing you want is to hospitalise him.
    After Vicious, the Nazi imagery was swiftly eliminated.
    McLaren may have " handed swastikas to his Sex Pistols. " It's just I've never seen conclusive evidence of this. Of course, the evidence may be out there. . Find it, readers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Brutusale

    McLaren and his girlfriend Vivienne Westwood were first and foremost fashion people. They actually designed for and dressed the New York Dolls when they met in New York.

    Punk was about rebellion. What would be more rebellious to a London 20-year old in 1975 than to sport a Nazi image?

    http://punkrocker.org.uk/punkscene/swastica.html

    The fashion never did cross the pond. In all the time I spent at the Boston punk mecca, The Rat, the only time I saw a swastika was at a Stranglers show, and half the fans there that night were Brits.

  188. @random observer
    OT but a cry for help....

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can't challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took "Death Wish" for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can't be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    One, that anyone who remembers the days before the mid-1960s does not regard the drop since 1990 or so as adequate because they have a different sense of normal or a different baseline expectation. Even the rates per 100,000 on Wikipedia, from the DoJ stats, show that for some violent crimes the levels are still about at their 1970 levels, which was then considered rather high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [expand the chart for rates per 100,000].

    And two, that the concern about rising crime is regional and by type of community as this Bloomberg post has it: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/why-americans-think-crime-is-worse-than-it-is

    Other than those hypotheses, I am at a loss. Since the overall stats are still so much better than they were when I was a kid, teenager, or university student [even here in Canada things are much safer than then, though it was never bad enough for a suburban kid to feel that unsafe here], I have no counterargument for him.

    What would be a Sailerian analysis? I haven't found it in recent posts and don't recall your most recent treatments. [NB-- your last two crime posts on mass incarceration and women and on the headline about law and order do not show up under the category "Crime" so I'm not sure how well the category tags work.]

    Replies: @candid_observer, @SEATAF, @anon, @Antonymous

    A short tactical answer is turn the ethnic proportions round – instead of 50% of homicides are committed by black people -> 50% of victims e.g.

    “50% of homicides occur within black communities – why are you okay with that?”

  189. @candid_observer
    @random observer

    I would ask your fine young Millennial whether the crime rate in black neighborhoods is perfectly acceptable, and should be ignored, or whether it should be a high priority to reduce it.

    If it's no big deal, then how bad is the plight of blacks in the inner city after all?

    If it is a big deal, then he has his answer as to why "law and order" is important.

    And you can play the same game by asking whether "gun violence" is a bad thing, which we must make a major priority to reduce.

    I think it's generally pretty hard to make a case for the idea that reducing crime isn't a worthwhile effort.

    Replies: @random observer

    I particularly like the ‘gun violence’ retort. Also the racial angle.

    I agree with your last point but I don’t think it would work well, and I’d be tempted to agree with him up to a point- with crime overall and in most if not all categories so much lower, what is the marginal return on more spending on cops and prisons? Even I’d have trouble with it, as my framework for ‘unacceptable levels of crime’ is 1980s. So I think of the last 25 years as much better and still trending down. He thinks of it, since he was born 1988, as a steady and major downward turn his whole life. My comment that anyone older than 75 still thinks of crime as absurdly high doesn’t seem to get much traction. I guess they’re too old and their 1940s-50s frame of reference too alien.

    The other line I’ve considered is that the politics of the 1960s and 70s seemed to include so much crime denial that many Americans have learned to mistrust any denial of crime increases now and go with anecdotal evidence instead. It’d be hard- the evidence for now is clear decline although as that Bloomberg guy pointed out about the possibility that that decline could end is valid. I suspect it could end with officials denying it for years. My colleague would just think that conspiracism.

  190. @SEATAF
    @SEATAF

    Sorry--meant "it’s a lot easier to let things get out of control than it is to regain control"

    Replies: @random observer

    That would be my concern as well. I imagine that’s on the minds of a lot of people, especially those who lived in the 1970s and 80s.

    He’ll just pull graphs on me.

    I suspect time will tell.

    But on the whole, when phrased by Trump or supporters as a major crisis of worsening crime, it still strikes me as his weakest plank.

    I did, however, manage to allude to immigration stuff with a colleague today in earshot of millennial and another of his mind:

    1) If Canada had 1 million illegal Americans, would we claim the right to deport them?
    2) would we expect American help in repatriating their nationals?
    3)and various points around the ‘jobs Americans wont do’ thesis.

    I managed to get that one main colleague [same vintage as me, politics hard to determine] around to the right of deportation of a sovereign country, the customary requirement of nations claiming to be friendly to assist and take their own back [though one may have to prove thbeir affiliation in some cases], and a rigidly enforced guest worker problem where no labour alternatives can be found, even including prior deportation and readmission legally only for those who have not evaded a deportation order in the past.

    Even managed to work in the notion that the current regime is just importing a serf caste to do scutwork at serf wages, ‘South Africanizing’ American society. Always throw in a progressive-sounding line.

    Good times.

  191. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    Please don’t turn Joe Strummer into your next ululation of the English.

    Fuck it, you are aren’t you.

    I will never understand Anglophilia.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    If you ask any ordinary reader which of Dickens's proletarian characters he can remember, the three he is almost certain to mention are Bill Sykes, Sam Weller, and Mrs. Gamp. A burglar, a valet, and a drunken midwife — not exactly a representative cross-section of the English working class.

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan

  192. @Pat Hannagan
    @Steve Sailer

    Please don't turn Joe Strummer into your next ululation of the English.

    Fuck it, you are aren't you.

    I will never understand Anglophilia.

    https://youtu.be/m-H0uIH5HHQ

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan

    If you ask any ordinary reader which of Dickens’s proletarian characters he can remember, the three he is almost certain to mention are Bill Sykes, Sam Weller, and Mrs. Gamp. A burglar, a valet, and a drunken midwife — not exactly a representative cross-section of the English working class.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    You would have done better to have posted my comment about the Nazis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfpRm-p7qlY

  193. @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    If you ask any ordinary reader which of Dickens's proletarian characters he can remember, the three he is almost certain to mention are Bill Sykes, Sam Weller, and Mrs. Gamp. A burglar, a valet, and a drunken midwife — not exactly a representative cross-section of the English working class.

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan

    You would have done better to have posted my comment about the Nazis.

  194. @Kylie
    @Marie

    "The cretin Yoko Ono is Reason #1 of billions why performance ‘art’ is not art"

    Yes and the cretin John Lennon is Reason #1--in fact the only reason--why we ever learned who Yoko Ono aka The Screech is. It is solely due to his creepy mommy issues that awareness of her was inflicted on an unsuspecting public. His slight talent doesn't begin to compensate for that outrage.

    Replies: @Marie

    She admitted at one point that John loved her masculine-looking visage precisely because he was (imagine my shock) closeted.

    She’s the reason why modern art is such a fraudulent joke – Yoko’s fellow performance ‘artists’ stuff yams up their butt and smear chocolate syrup over their naked bodies while screaming incoherently about suicide, and then have the temerity to actually claim they’re just artists deserving of federal funds (see: Karen Finley and the NEA Four)

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Marie

    Ugh. Yoko Ono is truly horrid.

    Her performance "art", is as unbearable as her appearance and personality.
    She'd have done better to stick to something like this:

    https://youtu.be/5He4wiqGJ3o

  195. @AndrewR
    @anon1

    Well the right flank of the alt right certainly does not care much for Jews and wants to keep Jews out of the alt-right at all costs. I'm not 100% on board this train but I am sympathetic to the No Jews Allowed view. There is little evidence that Jews don't constitute a highly distinct population unwilling and possibly unable to contribute to the ethnic interests of whites as a whole. And what better way is there to ensure Jews stay out of the movement than utter mockery of Holocaustianity? Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we. One need not endorse jokes about genocide or calls for genocide, of course, but I'll repeat what I said above to Sailer: do not punch to the right until you are on the left. In an era when Jamie Foxx (sic) can openly joke about how fun it is to kill white people without so much as a peep of protest from the left, your complaints about the crass memes and songs by the fringe of the fringe comes off as ignorant at best if not outright dishonest.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Marc

    “Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we”.

    The Alt Right will become atomized and over as soon as it’s adherents attempt to present a kinder, gentler version of itself (sell out) for mass consumption. The AntiFa never apologizes or castigates the more inflammatory members of it’s fringes, and neither should we.

    About one third of what constitutes the online Alt Right I find distasteful, but I will never do denounce them by name. I suspect some of them are COINTELPRO, but you can decide for yourself. The Patriot movement lost any chance of having a tangible effect on public policy and cultural influence because of all the in-fighting (low character charlatan leaders and camo fancying loo-loos were the other). Keeping our disagreements within the larger movement to ourselves is the best strategy. Do not give the opposition a single morsel of “disavowal” to gain purchase. State what YOU stand for and WHOSE viewpoints you consider valid, and leave it at that.

    • Agree: AndrewR, Kylie, Brutusale
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Marc

    You'd think a fogey like Sailer would have figured this out before the internet was really even a thing.

    The endless failures of the right are largely attributable to the tendency of cuckservatives to throw people to their right under the bus without demanding that the left do the same.

    In an ideal world everyone could freely criticize whomever they wanted.

    In our world, playing clean while allowing the foe to play dirty leads only to defeat.

  196. @Marc
    @AndrewR

    "Just as the leftists left no sacred cow untouched in their quest for power, so must we".

    The Alt Right will become atomized and over as soon as it's adherents attempt to present a kinder, gentler version of itself (sell out) for mass consumption. The AntiFa never apologizes or castigates the more inflammatory members of it's fringes, and neither should we.

    About one third of what constitutes the online Alt Right I find distasteful, but I will never do denounce them by name. I suspect some of them are COINTELPRO, but you can decide for yourself. The Patriot movement lost any chance of having a tangible effect on public policy and cultural influence because of all the in-fighting (low character charlatan leaders and camo fancying loo-loos were the other). Keeping our disagreements within the larger movement to ourselves is the best strategy. Do not give the opposition a single morsel of "disavowal" to gain purchase. State what YOU stand for and WHOSE viewpoints you consider valid, and leave it at that.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    You’d think a fogey like Sailer would have figured this out before the internet was really even a thing.

    The endless failures of the right are largely attributable to the tendency of cuckservatives to throw people to their right under the bus without demanding that the left do the same.

    In an ideal world everyone could freely criticize whomever they wanted.

    In our world, playing clean while allowing the foe to play dirty leads only to defeat.

  197. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    Joe’s dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling’s protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    According to some sites his father, Ronald Mellor, actually attended La Martiniere College in Lucknow, which was obviously St Xavier’s in Kim. His name doesn’t appear on Wikipedia’s notable Martinians list.

    There are also La Martiniere schools in Calcutta and Lyon, France. The former was attended by Merle Oberon, the latter by the Lumiere brothers.

  198. @Marie
    @Kylie

    She admitted at one point that John loved her masculine-looking visage precisely because he was (imagine my shock) closeted.

    She's the reason why modern art is such a fraudulent joke - Yoko's fellow performance 'artists' stuff yams up their butt and smear chocolate syrup over their naked bodies while screaming incoherently about suicide, and then have the temerity to actually claim they're just artists deserving of federal funds (see: Karen Finley and the NEA Four)

    Replies: @Kylie

    Ugh. Yoko Ono is truly horrid.

    Her performance “art”, is as unbearable as her appearance and personality.
    She’d have done better to stick to something like this:

  199. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to do a big statistical study of the background of rock stars. I suspect they tend to come from fairly high achieving if sometimes self-destructive backgrounds.

    The most memorable background for a rock star is perhaps Clash frontman Joe Strummer's, who pretended to be working class by never brushing his teeth. But Strummer's dad's cover story was he was a British diplomat, but was actually MI6 -- he was the code keeper at the British embassy who translated incoming and outgoing messages for the James Bonds. Joe's dad was good friends with Soviet spy Kim Philby.

    Joe was head boy or whatever it's called at his boarding school in England

    The more I learn about Joe, the less I think about Joe's ostensible leftism and the more the name "Rudyard Kipling" comes to mind. Joe's dad was born in Lucknow, India, where Kipling's protagonist Kim went to boarding school.

    Joe's last released song during his lifetime was "Minstrel Boy," which plays over the credits in Sir Ridley Scott's Somali war movie "Black Hawk Down." "Minstrel Boy" is what Sean Connery sings on the rope bridge at the end of John Huston's adaptation of Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2j7R1NL-s

    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death you'll find him

    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him

    "Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
    (Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

    The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
    Could not bring that proud soul under

    The harp he loved ne'er spoke again,
    For he tore its chords asunder

    And said "No chains shall sully thee,
    Thou soul of love and bravery!

    Thy songs were made for the pure and free
    They shall never sound in slavery!

    Here's an even better video made by some Vietnamese maniac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucMDjP-_7E

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Pat Hannagan, @Matra, @syonredux

    Stewart Copeland (of THE POLICE fame) has a similar family background:

    Stewart Armstrong Copeland was born in Alexandria, Virginia on July 16, 1952,[5][6] the youngest of four children of CIA officer Miles Copeland, Jr. and Scottish archaeologist Lorraine Adie. The family moved to Cairo, Egypt, a few months after his birth, and Copeland spent his formative years in the Middle East. In 1957, the family moved to Beirut, Lebanon,[7] and Copeland attended the American Community School there. He started taking drum lessons at age twelve and was playing drums for school dances within a year. Later he moved to England and attended Millfield[7] from 1967 to 1969. Copeland went to college in California, attending United States International University and University of California, Berkeley. Returning to England, he worked as road manager for the progressive rock band Curved Air’s 1974 reunion tour, and then as drummer for the band during 1975 and 1976.

    His father:

    Miles Axe Copeland, Jr. (July 16, 1916 – January 14, 1991) was an American musician, businessman, and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer best known for his close personal relationship with Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser and his “controversial books on intelligence,” including The Game of Nations: The Amorality of Power Politics (1969) and The Game Player: Confessions of the CIA’s Original Political Operative (1989).[1] In his memoirs, Copeland recounted his involvement in numerous covert operations, including the March 1949 Syrian coup d’état and the 1953 Iranian coup d’état.[2] A conservative influenced by the ideas of James Burnham, Copeland was associated with the American political magazine National Review.[3][4] In a 1986 Rolling Stone interview, he stated: “Unlike The New York Times, Victor Marchetti and Philip Agee, my complaint has been that the CIA isn’t overthrowing enough anti-American governments or assassinating enough anti-American leaders, but I guess I’m getting old.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Copeland_Jr.

    His mother:

    Lorraine Copeland (born Elizabeth Lorraine Adie, 1921, died 27 April 2013[1]) was an archaeologist specialising in the Palaeolithic period of the Near East. She was a secret agent with the Special Operations Executive during World War II.

    Copeland worked for British Intelligence during the Second World War, in the Special Operations Executive.[3] She met her American husband, Miles Copeland, Jr., during this period, when he was based in the U.K. undertaking counter-intelligence for the OSS (Office of Strategic Services). They married on 25 September 1942 and soon afterwards Miles’ work took them to the Near East, particularly Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, and it was whilst in this area that Copeland first developed her interest in archaeology.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_Copeland

  200. @Kylie
    @reiner Tor

    "1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized...all the while being fiercely neutral... keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It’s quite close to an ideal society in my mind. "

    If a society that sends a lot of aid to the third world is quite close to an ideal society in your mind, then your mind is unhinged.

    Replies: @5371, @reiner Tor

    Well, it’s better than bringing the third world home, that’s for sure.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @5371

    "Well, it’s better than bringing the third world home, that’s for sure."

    If sending aid to the Third World helped keep Third World citizens there, I'd be all for it. But the First World's policy of "You breed them, we'll feed them" virtually ensures that at some point, the Third World will appear on the First World's shores demanding entry. That's what I want to see prevented.: a The Camp of the Saints situation.

    Replies: @Rob McX

  201. After Twitter lefties complained about the RNC house band playing “Rock the Casbah” I annoyed them with a reminder of what Joe Strummer said right after 9/11:

    https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2013/9/11/takin-the-freight-elevator-to-the-incinerator-joe-strummer-and-911/

    And reminded them that Casbah was about Muslims (not, say, evangelical Christians) calling music sinful.

  202. Oh and the Clash DO have a sort of informal “White” trilogy of songs: White Riot, White Man in the Hammersmith Palais, and Safe European Home — about the trip Joe and Mick took to Jamaica and pretty much got their asses kicked:

    I went to the place where every white face is an
    Invitation to robbery
    An’ sitting here in my safe European home
    I don’t want to go back there again

    https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tdebnfzlaievjbqi6ah5cok6hx4?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics&u=0#

  203. One more thing: On Mick vs Joe’s class differences…

    “When prolier than thou ex-public school boy Joe was outed by the music press for living at Sebastian Conran’s palatial spread, he moved into a squat. Ex-council flat kid Mick was happy enough to spend his advance on a fuck-off rock star’s pad in Chelsea. Cool.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2007/may/21/joestrummerblahblahblahwh

    And you should really read that book about Jews and punk, The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBs, which is only marred by the short shrift given to Mick’s Jewishness. (Joe would have been considered a Jew under the Nuremberg Laws, but not halachically)

  204. Punk was before my time, so I don’t know much about it. But I always associate most Punk with the Left. How many times have I heard Terry Gross or someone else on NPR go on about the Ramones, Iggy Pop or Henry Rollins? I don’t know if it’s from movies, but I have the impression that punks opposed Thatcher from the left.

    I would associate Alt-Right more with music like this:

    or these:

    or this for the hardcore:

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @OilcanFloyd

    I spent a lot of time around the punk scene in Boston, and it drew from angstry working-class kids and artsy college kids, which is why it eventually splintered into New Wave and hardcore. Henry Rollins was a lefty outlier, but he's a sexual abuse survivor, grew up in DC and was mentored by HR, the singer for Bad Brains, the only black punk band anyone can name, so his politics shouldn't be surprising. Johnny Ramone was as conservative as they come, as you'd expect of a plumber from Queens.. Iggy is a nihilist, but as the product of a trailer park he wants to hang with the cool kids like Johnny Depp in his old age.

    Terry Gross was pushing 30 during punk's heyday, far too old to fit into what was a extremely young scene. Punk was transgressive, so it was cool to lefty poseurs.

    I'll leave you with Handsome Dick Manitoba and the Dictators in a murky 1977 video of Master Race Rock:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j07sEK5uXrw

  205. @Matra
    @Steve Sailer

    The last time I heard the name of Joe Jackson (I've never listened to his music) it was also due to his opposition to a smoking ban. It was his letter of resignation to CAMRA (the Campaign For Real Ale) due to their support for Britain's smoking ban in pubs. The entire letter is at this site.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Bill Jones

    CAMRA is the worlds best example of people successfully fighting against corporatism.

    There are many reasons to despise The Grauniad but their running the column Boston on Beer is to be eternally lauded.

    (And his phrase “The Great Watney Desert” is one for the ages too)

  206. WhatEvvs [AKA "Whatever"] says:

    Dee Dee – real name Douglas Colvin – was born on an army base down South but raised for the first 14 years of his life in Germany. His mother was German. His first language was German. Mom divorced drunken brutal father & came to NYC because the daughter, Doug’s sister Beverly, got a scholarship to the School of American Ballet. She wasn’t quite talented to become professional.

    Doug married sweet Vera in a Roman Catholic ceremony in Queens and they stayed married for 17 years and lived in a house in one of the dullest parts of Queens, College Point, because he thought it would keep him off the drugs. Didn’t work out that way.

    Somewhere on Youtube there is a video of Doug, in his 40s, speaking perfectly fluent, colloquial German, with a Queens accent, on a German interview show. He was in pretty good shape although shot to hell.

    RIP Doug Colvin, Jeff Hyman, Tomas Erdelyi and that bastard John Cummings.

  207. @5371
    @Kylie

    Well, it's better than bringing the third world home, that's for sure.

    Replies: @Kylie

    “Well, it’s better than bringing the third world home, that’s for sure.”

    If sending aid to the Third World helped keep Third World citizens there, I’d be all for it. But the First World’s policy of “You breed them, we’ll feed them” virtually ensures that at some point, the Third World will appear on the First World’s shores demanding entry. That’s what I want to see prevented.: a The Camp of the Saints situation.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Kylie

    True. Aid should be tied to birth control programmes. As things stand, aid to Third World countries is financing a population explosion whose fruits will eventually end up on our doorstep. It seems that Africans, especially, will always have more offspring than they can support - r-selection, and all that. There will always be a surplus population whose choice is between starvation or getting to a white country.

  208. @James O'Meara
    Blah blah blah.

    Punk rock is no more "white" than any other negro-derived guitar-based music (ask a real White musician like Varg Vikernes about that).

    It's not even the most popular white music: I'm certain that Kenny G has sold more albums (remember them?) than every punk band combined.

    It fulfilled certain Capitalist requirements at the time, and was then tossed aside in favor of the equally annoying but genuinely negroid rap(e) "music."

    Actual white music (Prog, New Age, Scott Walker) is no more popular on the right than in the popular "culture," BECAUSE it's White and you have all been taught to worship negroes.

    Conservative punk rock fans = cucks

    Replies: @syonredux, @Antonymous

    Punk rock is no more “white” than any other negro-derived guitar-based music (ask a real White musician like Varg Vikernes about that).

    Blues is derived from white folk (and black spirituals), so the borrowing is full circle.

  209. @random observer
    OT but a cry for help....

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can't challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took "Death Wish" for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can't be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    One, that anyone who remembers the days before the mid-1960s does not regard the drop since 1990 or so as adequate because they have a different sense of normal or a different baseline expectation. Even the rates per 100,000 on Wikipedia, from the DoJ stats, show that for some violent crimes the levels are still about at their 1970 levels, which was then considered rather high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [expand the chart for rates per 100,000].

    And two, that the concern about rising crime is regional and by type of community as this Bloomberg post has it: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/why-americans-think-crime-is-worse-than-it-is

    Other than those hypotheses, I am at a loss. Since the overall stats are still so much better than they were when I was a kid, teenager, or university student [even here in Canada things are much safer than then, though it was never bad enough for a suburban kid to feel that unsafe here], I have no counterargument for him.

    What would be a Sailerian analysis? I haven't found it in recent posts and don't recall your most recent treatments. [NB-- your last two crime posts on mass incarceration and women and on the headline about law and order do not show up under the category "Crime" so I'm not sure how well the category tags work.]

    Replies: @candid_observer, @SEATAF, @anon, @Antonymous

    I have a young coworker who compiles crime rates all day and is the most annoying millennial ever, but I can’t challenge him on the content of his chief complaint, which is to call out Trump and all who support him for claiming crime is getting worse in America when the crime rates have so clearly dropped precipitously since the early 1990s [this would be most of his lifetime; I on the other hand was a Gen X adolescent who took “Death Wish” for a documentary of my own times].

    Since they have dropped, massively, the stats alone can’t be the basis for the argument.

    I can think only of two things.

    The annoying millenial is probably aware that black criminality drives US violent crime statistics. Crime declined in tandem with Clinton’s 1994 crime bill, which incarcerated some 1 in 3 black men between 15 and 35 years old.

    The recent homicide spikes are highly localized to black portions of Baltimore, East St Louis, Philadelphia, Chicago, and other black-run (or heavily influenced) cities. At 13% of the population blacks can’t move the crime needle entirely. Nationally we see “only” a 15% average increase between 2014 and 15. But those within crime prone areas are seeing multi-hundred percent increases in homicide y.o.y. Your colleague does the average black no favor to smear their suffering (largely at the hands of black gangs) in with the national average and pronounce it a statistical blip.

    Much of the resurgence in black crime is related to Obama and Holder, who together with BLM, are agitating the black lower class. And Obama’s solution? His “arc of the universe bends toward justice” is to blame whites for disproportionate black criminality and suggest a mass release of felons because of “disparate impact”. Who wins with this race-baiting and gang member-coddling? Certainly not the average black or scapegoated white.

    This is why Trump talks about crime — the skyrocketing black homicide rates in the last several years, and the cynical, exacerbating ‘solutions’ proposed by Obama.

  210. @OilcanFloyd
    Punk was before my time, so I don't know much about it. But I always associate most Punk with the Left. How many times have I heard Terry Gross or someone else on NPR go on about the Ramones, Iggy Pop or Henry Rollins? I don't know if it's from movies, but I have the impression that punks opposed Thatcher from the left.

    I would associate Alt-Right more with music like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-YCtdu7gAM

    or these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3hzR939uB8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J56VVtlZCGE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SIGb-nyWWc

    or this for the hardcore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnPDu9fNOcA

    Replies: @Brutusale

    I spent a lot of time around the punk scene in Boston, and it drew from angstry working-class kids and artsy college kids, which is why it eventually splintered into New Wave and hardcore. Henry Rollins was a lefty outlier, but he’s a sexual abuse survivor, grew up in DC and was mentored by HR, the singer for Bad Brains, the only black punk band anyone can name, so his politics shouldn’t be surprising. Johnny Ramone was as conservative as they come, as you’d expect of a plumber from Queens.. Iggy is a nihilist, but as the product of a trailer park he wants to hang with the cool kids like Johnny Depp in his old age.

    Terry Gross was pushing 30 during punk’s heyday, far too old to fit into what was a extremely young scene. Punk was transgressive, so it was cool to lefty poseurs.

    I’ll leave you with Handsome Dick Manitoba and the Dictators in a murky 1977 video of Master Race Rock:

  211. @Kylie
    @5371

    "Well, it’s better than bringing the third world home, that’s for sure."

    If sending aid to the Third World helped keep Third World citizens there, I'd be all for it. But the First World's policy of "You breed them, we'll feed them" virtually ensures that at some point, the Third World will appear on the First World's shores demanding entry. That's what I want to see prevented.: a The Camp of the Saints situation.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    True. Aid should be tied to birth control programmes. As things stand, aid to Third World countries is financing a population explosion whose fruits will eventually end up on our doorstep. It seems that Africans, especially, will always have more offspring than they can support – r-selection, and all that. There will always be a surplus population whose choice is between starvation or getting to a white country.

    • Agree: Kylie
  212. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    Your replies are just a list of ipse dixit negations.

    You’re being argumentative.
     
    More like advancing an argument.

    Capitalism has proven itself to be anti-White.

    Therefore, Whites need to turn to pro-White socialism.

    It offers the best chance of survival for the White race.

    Were he still around, Jack London would agree.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

    I think that you cannot make social democracy work unless you have a feeling of national solidarity that you onlyl get with low immigration. Socialism is not so much pro white as pro nation state. In places like Scandinavia, Germany and Canada social democracy has worked reasonably well. I don’t think that it will continue to work well with mass immigration.

    Venezuela is not a great example of socialism; however before this it wasn’t a great example of capitalism either.

  213. @Kylie
    @reiner Tor

    "1950s/60s egalitarian Sweden, where Gypsies were subsidized but also sterilized...all the while being fiercely neutral... keeping a strong army, and sending a lot of aid to the third world. It’s quite close to an ideal society in my mind. "

    If a society that sends a lot of aid to the third world is quite close to an ideal society in your mind, then your mind is unhinged.

    Replies: @5371, @reiner Tor

    It depends what the aid is used for. People have suggested family planning here. I’d add eugenic programs.

    The problem is, you can’t help them usefully without acknowledging that they are, at present, biologically inferior.

    On the other hand, in the 1960s the third world contained a lot of places that weren’t much inferior, just very poor, like Korea or Taiwan.

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