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The 300 Fastest Men Ever
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For those who are interested in patterns of performance, here is my tabulation from the World Athletics database of the 300 fastest male runners in history that I created for my current Taki’s Magazine column.

Top 300 Men’s Runners Ever 100m 200m 400m 800m 1500m 5000m 10,000m Marathon Total
Caribbean 64 48 54 5 0 0 0 0 171
Western Africa 26 15 10 4 0 0 0 0 55
Eastern Africa 4 4 16 94 111 185 206 254 874
Southern Africa 13 16 11 11 4 1 1 3 60
Northwest Africa 0 0 0 17 29 27 12 7 92
Northeast Asia 13 10 1 1 0 1 5 14 45
South Asia 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Southeast Asia 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2
5 Eyes (US UK NZ A C) 148 161 162 78 70 37 37 4 697
Eastern Europe 3 9 10 22 9 2 2 0 57
Western Europe 16 18 18 47 64 31 24 11 229
Western Asia 3 1 0 2 1 3 2 1 13
Persian Gulf 5 2 11 10 11 11 6 4 60
Brazil 3 9 2 6 1 1 2 24
Other Latin America 1 7 4 3 0 2 3 0 20
Total 300 300 300 300 300 300 300 300 2400

Each column adds up to 300 separate runners ranked by his fastest time ever. E.g., Usain Bolt ranks first in the 100 meter dash for his 9.58 in 2009.

It’s skewed toward the 21st Century but includes some famous old times like Jimmy Hines’ 9.95 in 1968 and Valery Borzov’s 10.07 in 1972.

The Five Eyes are the five Anglo-Saxon powers that have cooperated in intelligence gathering since Alan Turing’s day.

These stats are based on what country the athlete was representing at the time of his best race, not where he was born or where his ancestors were from. Regions of emigration like Africa and Eastern Europe are pretty racially homogeneous. Regions of immigration like the Persian Gulf, Western Europe, and the Five Eyes are not, however. Qatar and Bahrain, for instance, recruit a lot of African athletes.

The 400m vs. 800m gap is highly noticeable in some regions like the Caribbean, West Africa, and East Africa. Because that’s the switch from anaerobic to aerobic, the workout schedule is highly different between the two distances, which creates a cultural gap as well.

And here are top 300’s for various countries:

Track Powers 100m 200m 400m 800m 1500m 5000m 10,000m Marathon Total
Jamaica 36 21 22 79
Trinidad 9 8 10 27
Nigeria 17 7 8 1 33
Kenya 2 1 11 80 82 119 128 152 575
Ethiopia 2 21 51 58 92 224
Uganda 1 2 1 8 9 3 24
South Africa 10 11 6 8 4 1 1 3 44
USA 119 139 134 45 28 22 21 3 511
UK 18 12 17 23 22 8 8 1 109
Canada 8 7 2 3 5 2 3 30
Australia 3 3 9 7 11 4 4 41
Spain 1 1 3 8 18 9 5 3 48
Morocco 8 20 23 12 7 70
Japan 9 8 1 1 5 14 38
China 4 1 5
Brazil 3 9 2 6 1 1 2 24

These were up to date through the men’s 100 meter on Sunday, but not since then.

 
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  1. Steve, you into this?

    • LOL: Charon
  2. Isn’t Brazil’s poor showing noteworthy?

  3. LMAAAAOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    17 years without a medal.

    take the 4 fastest guys but make sure to never practice relay exchanges.

    LOOOOOOOOOOLLLL

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @prime noticer

    Getting four USA 100 meter men to cooperate in practice is like getting Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Liston to play nice as a team.

  4. [MORE]

  5. @prime noticer
    LMAAAAOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    17 years without a medal.

    take the 4 fastest guys but make sure to never practice relay exchanges.

    LOOOOOOOOOOLLLL

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Getting four USA 100 meter men to cooperate in practice is like getting Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Liston to play nice as a team.

    • LOL: PiltdownMan
  6. Thanks for the data. I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure). It might be interesting to add per capita results for each distance.

    Most of the population data is from https://www.worldometers.info/population/world/
    Persian Gulf from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gcc-countries
    Five Eyes from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/five-eyes-countries

    Might be good to check how well the regions correspond with yours.

    CSV after the MORE.

    [MORE]

    Top 300 Men’s Runners Ever,100m,200m,400m,800m,1500m,5000m,”10,000m”,Marathon,Total,Population,Total per 1M
    Caribbean,64,48,54,5,0,0,0,0,171,”43,747,735″,3.909
    Western Africa,26,15,10,4,0,0,0,0,55,”412,996,732″,0.133
    Eastern Africa,4,4,16,94,111,185,206,254,874,”457,696,019″,1.910
    Southern Africa,13,16,11,11,4,1,1,3,60,”68,449,288″,0.877
    Northwest Africa,0,0,0,17,29,27,12,7,92,”251,026,522″,0.366
    Northeast Asia,13,10,1,1,0,1,5,14,45,”1,684,074,765″,0.027
    South Asia,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,”1,964,387,146″,0.001
    Southeast Asia,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,2,”675,793,043″,0.003
    5 Eyes (US UK NZ A C),148,161,162,78,70,37,37,4,697,”469,838,950″,1.483
    Eastern Europe,3,9,10,22,9,2,2,0,57,”292,539,491″,0.195
    Western Europe,16,18,18,47,64,31,24,11,229,”196,827,972″,1.163
    Western Asia,3,1,0,2,1,3,2,1,13,”284,292,322″,0.046
    Persian Gulf,5,2,11,10,11,11,6,4,60,”59,562,521″,1.007
    Brazil,3,9,2,6,1,,1,2,24,”214,202,856″,0.112
    Other Latin America,1,7,4,3,0,2,3,0,20,”402,356,118″,0.050
    Total,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,2400,”7,477,791,480″,0.321

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @res

    "I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure)."
    (and wow... look at Caribbean vs West Africa...33x!)
    This strikes me as needing a cultural explanation.
    Regardless of your biological starting point, you need great mental focus both in starting and in focusing once you're in it. And to get to the point where you've got that, you need the mental discipline to submit to the training.
    These are small and smaller countries that manage to cultivate the idea that winning reknown via athletics is an admirable goal.
    (which it is... but life is complex...)

    https://youtu.be/JpvDC_s8aDg

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @showmethereal
    @res

    The Caribbean - like the US - Canada - Great Britain - the sprinters have West African genes. The Caribbean is a super concentrated version - as remember the fittest slaves were taken from Africa to the west...

  7. that last guy got BLAZED on the home stretch. it looked like 4 runners passed him. not sure that team would have won a medal even if the relay exchanges were better, and that was with 3 of the 4 fastest Americans running in prelims. wow.

    by the way, that was Filippo Tortu running last for Italy, zoomed right past the Americans. Tortu has beat Marcell Jacobs regularly for years. then suddenly, out of nowhere, Jacobs begins running under 10, sets the european record in the 100, and even wins the Olympic 100. hmmm…

    China and Japan into the final, USA out. symbolic of the times.

  8. Somewhat ironically, we need to go back to Leni Riefenstahl’s Olympia — where the races were frankly presented as between the whites and the blacks.

    We were watching some middle-distance women’s race. Some black was winning for the US — but we didn’t care about that.

    Who was the white girl taking silver? What nation she was from was not our primary concern.

    Not any more.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Gordo
    @Colin Wright


    Who was the white girl taking silver? What nation she was from was not our primary concern.

    Not any more.
     
    I support the White team, if it's good for Whites it's good.
  9. Hmmm, maybe instead of contests about Who Can Run Fast, or Who Can Smash Into Each Other Hardest, or Who Can Throw a Rubber Ball Through a Hoop, we could have contests about Who Can Organize International Sports, Build Giant Stadiums for Them and Televise Them. If one guy can run 100m faster than another guy by .34 seconds, I’m more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.

    After the Battle of the Little Big Horn, a reporter asked one of the victorious Indian warriors how long the battle had taken. He replied, “About as long as it takes for a hungry man to eat his dinner.”
    Very poetic: but if he had asked a losing US Cavalry soldier how long it took, he would have said, “Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes.” Guess who wins the battle, and who wins the war.

    • Thanks: Rob
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    I’m more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.
     
    No need to worry. America is great in that regard too. We have Clock Boy on our team! Our future diverse, inclusive and equitable inventors are going to be GREAT!

    If your country's technological and economic achievements begin to pale somewhat (not too many clock factories left in America) then at least you can point to your country's continuing strength in the Throwing a Rubber Ball Through a Hoop department.


    Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes.”
     
    Until the invention of shock protection for the balance wheel, even a pocket watch would not have lasted long in the pocket of a cavalryman and they probably did not carry them into combat. Wristwatches only became popular during WWI because watches worn on the wrist take even more of a beating than a pocket watch.

    If an American soldier wears a watch nowadays, it's probably made in Guangdong and not Waltham, MA. In any case, accurate time keeping, which was once a difficult technical problem, is solved beyond most practical needs - the real challenges today lie elsewhere.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    ...I’m more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.



    “Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes.” Guess who wins the battle, and who wins the war.

     

    So if John Harrison had worked a little faster, we'd still be under the Crown, and Joe Biden would be Governor General?


    John Harrison's Marine Chronometers


    https://www.horobox.com/Cms_Data/Contents/SampleBusinessEN/Media/Incelemeler/marine-chronometer-kapak-.jpg
  10. Semi-off-topic: Some prime Narrative Management going on in the NYT here, catnip for the Sailersphere. Emphasis added?

    Why India Struggles to Win Olympic Gold

    By Hannah Beech and Shalini Venugopal Bhagat
    Published Aug. 4, 2021
    Updated Aug. 5, 2021, 12:02 a.m. ET

    ….In recent years, the country’s most powerful crop of Olympians has come from a narrow neck of land in northeastern India, where ethnic minorities live in the shadow of the Himalayas…. Because of their ethnicity, people there often face discrimination….Mary Kom, a light-flyweight boxer from Manipur who captured bronze at the 2012 Games in London, said she has long faced prejudice from Hindu nationalists who say that as a Christian, she is somehow not truly Indian. There are also racist whispers, some not so quiet, that people from the Himalayan foothills are more martial than others in India and that’s why they make good boxers….“Manipuri people, we have a fighting spirit, especially women,” said Kom, who grew up rationing meals to save money for a pair of sneakers

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @BenjaminL

    East Asians are the athletic&military elite of the Subcontinent.

    Look at the Gurkhas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8pIJglsYUE

    Out of India's 4 medals, 2 were won by people with an Asian phenotype.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Steve Sailer
    @BenjaminL

    Thanks.

  11. There are also racist whispers, some not so quiet, that people from the Himalayan foothills are more martial than others in India

    Hardly racist, and hardly whispers. As I recall the British organized the Indian Army along racial lines, deeming some sub-caste groups to be martial races, and fit for military service, while many others were excluded. This was based on existing notions of who were the manly peoples of the subcontinent from before the arrival of the British.

    And as far as I know, the Indian and Pakistani Army still keep those useful distinctions-they have Sikh, Gurkha, Rajput, Baluch, and other regiments in the two armies.

  12. Mary Kom, a light-flyweight boxer from Manipur who captured bronze at the 2012 Games in London, said she has long faced prejudice from Hindu nationalists who say that as a Christian, she is somehow not truly Indian.

    She’s from the farthest eastern reaches of the country, almost in Burma, and looks it. She also seems way to feminine to be a boxer. At least in her civvies:

    She looks tougher in the ring, especially next to fellow Indian boxers Nikhat Zareen and the wonderfully-named Pinki Rani Jangra:

    Mary now has a cross tattooed on that right bicep.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    @Reg Cæsar

    Makeup does wonders. Some female fighters ( MMA, boxing, karate, etc.) who actually looked decent with makeup were Kathy Long, Laila Ali, Meisha Tate, Ronda Rousey, Gina Carrano, etc. Without the war paint these females are not all that but certainly more easy on the eyes than Lucia Rijker, Ann Wolfe, Claressa Shields, Cyborg, ugh.

    With makeup, I say Gina Carrano and Meisha Tate are the two most or were the two most attractive fighters, without makeup, not so much.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  13. @BenjaminL
    Semi-off-topic: Some prime Narrative Management going on in the NYT here, catnip for the Sailersphere. Emphasis added?

    Why India Struggles to Win Olympic Gold

    By Hannah Beech and Shalini Venugopal Bhagat
    Published Aug. 4, 2021
    Updated Aug. 5, 2021, 12:02 a.m. ET

    ....In recent years, the country’s most powerful crop of Olympians has come from a narrow neck of land in northeastern India, where ethnic minorities live in the shadow of the Himalayas.... Because of their ethnicity, people there often face discrimination....Mary Kom, a light-flyweight boxer from Manipur who captured bronze at the 2012 Games in London, said she has long faced prejudice from Hindu nationalists who say that as a Christian, she is somehow not truly Indian. There are also racist whispers, some not so quiet, that people from the Himalayan foothills are more martial than others in India and that’s why they make good boxers....“Manipuri people, we have a fighting spirit, especially women,” said Kom, who grew up rationing meals to save money for a pair of sneakers
     

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Steve Sailer

    East Asians are the athletic&military elite of the Subcontinent.

    Look at the Gurkhas.

    Out of India’s 4 medals, 2 were won by people with an Asian phenotype.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Typical redneck idiot post.


    Gurkhas aren't "east Asian" or "Mongoloid", they are a mixed race population. Some are mostly Caucasoid while others are mostly Mongoloid; many are somewhere inbetween. The ruling tribes and notable soldiers of the Gurkhas are Caucasoid as you can see on their Wikipedia page, and it's these Gurkhas who have the reputation for military prowess. The Mongoloid looking Gurkhas who go to England today are the poor ones, and not the martial Gurkhas of colonial fame.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  14. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    Thanks for the data. I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure). It might be interesting to add per capita results for each distance.

    Most of the population data is from https://www.worldometers.info/population/world/
    Persian Gulf from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gcc-countries
    Five Eyes from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/five-eyes-countries

    Might be good to check how well the regions correspond with yours.

    CSV after the MORE.



    Top 300 Men’s Runners Ever,100m,200m,400m,800m,1500m,5000m,"10,000m",Marathon,Total,Population,Total per 1M
    Caribbean,64,48,54,5,0,0,0,0,171,"43,747,735",3.909
    Western Africa,26,15,10,4,0,0,0,0,55,"412,996,732",0.133
    Eastern Africa,4,4,16,94,111,185,206,254,874,"457,696,019",1.910
    Southern Africa,13,16,11,11,4,1,1,3,60,"68,449,288",0.877
    Northwest Africa,0,0,0,17,29,27,12,7,92,"251,026,522",0.366
    Northeast Asia,13,10,1,1,0,1,5,14,45,"1,684,074,765",0.027
    South Asia,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,"1,964,387,146",0.001
    Southeast Asia,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,2,"675,793,043",0.003
    5 Eyes (US UK NZ A C),148,161,162,78,70,37,37,4,697,"469,838,950",1.483
    Eastern Europe,3,9,10,22,9,2,2,0,57,"292,539,491",0.195
    Western Europe,16,18,18,47,64,31,24,11,229,"196,827,972",1.163
    Western Asia,3,1,0,2,1,3,2,1,13,"284,292,322",0.046
    Persian Gulf,5,2,11,10,11,11,6,4,60,"59,562,521",1.007
    Brazil,3,9,2,6,1,,1,2,24,"214,202,856",0.112
    Other Latin America,1,7,4,3,0,2,3,0,20,"402,356,118",0.050
    Total,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,2400,"7,477,791,480",0.321

    Replies: @Anonymous, @showmethereal

    “I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure).”
    (and wow… look at Caribbean vs West Africa…33x!)
    This strikes me as needing a cultural explanation.
    Regardless of your biological starting point, you need great mental focus both in starting and in focusing once you’re in it. And to get to the point where you’ve got that, you need the mental discipline to submit to the training.
    These are small and smaller countries that manage to cultivate the idea that winning reknown via athletics is an admirable goal.
    (which it is… but life is complex…)

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Anonymous

    The Caribbean is a high concentration of the fittest West Africans... Those are the slaves that were taken.

  15. Anon[539] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @BenjaminL

    East Asians are the athletic&military elite of the Subcontinent.

    Look at the Gurkhas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8pIJglsYUE

    Out of India's 4 medals, 2 were won by people with an Asian phenotype.

    Replies: @Anon

    Typical redneck idiot post.

    Gurkhas aren’t “east Asian” or “Mongoloid”, they are a mixed race population. Some are mostly Caucasoid while others are mostly Mongoloid; many are somewhere inbetween. The ruling tribes and notable soldiers of the Gurkhas are Caucasoid as you can see on their Wikipedia page, and it’s these Gurkhas who have the reputation for military prowess. The Mongoloid looking Gurkhas who go to England today are the poor ones, and not the martial Gurkhas of colonial fame.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anon

    So, his point about athletic performance is mooted by an unrelated group of people on wiki. Okay.

    Replies: @Anon

  16. Totally off topic

    Matty’s (on Twitter) recent tweet storm about Hungary got me thinking. Since there are no first world populations that are reproducing themselves, perhaps we should look at skilled immigration in a new light?

    It seems to me that if a country is producing more skilled (gifted/talented) labor than it can consume, does this not speak well of that country? Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively. Meanwhile, a country like the US, with around 50% of the under-thirty population being various sorts of third worlders, cannot produce all the smart people it needs. Does that not say something very bad about us? I don’t mean a prog very bad America is not turning its ‘groes into quantum doctors, more very bad about us – we are full of fruit pickers and surplus farm equipment.

    I am not sure where this puts various other countries. India produces lots of “smart” workers that it cannot use, but that is because India is third world. If it were developed, it would not produce anywhere near enough of a smart fraction to cover its needs. But Hungary is -not first world, perhaps – but developed to the point where everyone poops in toilets, and has a climate such that if they lived with India’s material culture, then hundreds of thousands would die for of exposure every winter.

    Doesn’t it mean that Hungarians are doing something right, that their labor is in demand in the rest of the world. I feel this does not apply to Mexico or Honduras, because they are producing unskilled workers in poverty – that is so easy even Africans can do it. Producing skilled craftsmen, though, and engineers. That is something the world has trouble doing,

    I realize that Hungary has a crappy TFR, but it seems to me that they are in a better place than America. The country is so flooded with third worlders that any pro-natalist policy would make everything worse. But Hungary is a real nation, and any transfers they made to encourage young parents would go to Hungarians.

    Am I totally off? I kinda think that being all ‘this applies to Hungary, but not third worlders, because reasons’ is special pleading. What say you guys?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Rob


    Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively.
     
    Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven't seen it.

    In most modern developed countries, there's no shortage of smart people (yet). You don't need that many smart people to run an economy. Top universities are getting 25 applications for every slot.

    What you really need (until they figure out robots for EVERYTHING) are legions and legions of low skilled people willing to do menial work. A strawberry farm or meatpacking plant has a handful of people in the office and maintaining the machinery and hundreds and hundreds of people doing menial labor. For every executive at WalMart HQ, there must be 1,000 retail employees. The US has lots of low skilled people but getting natives to do low paid work is difficult in a modern social welfare state where being on the dole or in some makework AA position as a "social worker" pays just as well and often better. There are an unlimited # of 3rd world people willing to do such work - they wouldn't be sneaking across the border if their services were not in demand. As soon as Covid and unlimited unemployment payments disrupted the balance, we saw immediate staffing shortages in the low paid positions. AFAIK, there are no shortages in the executive ranks.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Rob

  17. Steve, is Bob Hayes from the 60s/70s Dallas Cowboys in the fastest 300? Also, Darryl Green of the 80s/90s Redskins? I know they were certainly fastest in their time in the NFL, and both were Olympians IIRC. Green running down Tony Dorset from 60 yards back and across the field on MNF circa 1982 was the greatest open field pursuit ever. Hayes and Green, do they rank?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jim Christian

    They didn't have electronic timing in 1964, but Bob Hayes' 100m gold medal has been timed off the movie footage at 10.06 seconds, which would still rank in the top 300 athletes of all time. And he was running on a cinder track.

    His come from behind anchor leg in the 4x100 relays is assumed to be even faster.

    , @Wolf Barney
    @Jim Christian

    I believe Darrell Green (Washington Redskins) only competed in track during college, where he ran the 100 meters in 10.08. Perhaps you're thinking of Willie Gault, who was an Olympic sprinter and played for the Bears in the NFL during the same time as Green. I think Green defeated Gault once in the "NFL Fastest Man" competition.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  18. @BenjaminL
    Semi-off-topic: Some prime Narrative Management going on in the NYT here, catnip for the Sailersphere. Emphasis added?

    Why India Struggles to Win Olympic Gold

    By Hannah Beech and Shalini Venugopal Bhagat
    Published Aug. 4, 2021
    Updated Aug. 5, 2021, 12:02 a.m. ET

    ....In recent years, the country’s most powerful crop of Olympians has come from a narrow neck of land in northeastern India, where ethnic minorities live in the shadow of the Himalayas.... Because of their ethnicity, people there often face discrimination....Mary Kom, a light-flyweight boxer from Manipur who captured bronze at the 2012 Games in London, said she has long faced prejudice from Hindu nationalists who say that as a Christian, she is somehow not truly Indian. There are also racist whispers, some not so quiet, that people from the Himalayan foothills are more martial than others in India and that’s why they make good boxers....“Manipuri people, we have a fighting spirit, especially women,” said Kom, who grew up rationing meals to save money for a pair of sneakers
     

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

  19. @Jim Christian
    Steve, is Bob Hayes from the 60s/70s Dallas Cowboys in the fastest 300? Also, Darryl Green of the 80s/90s Redskins? I know they were certainly fastest in their time in the NFL, and both were Olympians IIRC. Green running down Tony Dorset from 60 yards back and across the field on MNF circa 1982 was the greatest open field pursuit ever. Hayes and Green, do they rank?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Wolf Barney

    They didn’t have electronic timing in 1964, but Bob Hayes’ 100m gold medal has been timed off the movie footage at 10.06 seconds, which would still rank in the top 300 athletes of all time. And he was running on a cinder track.

    His come from behind anchor leg in the 4×100 relays is assumed to be even faster.

    • Thanks: Jim Christian
  20. @Colin Wright
    Somewhat ironically, we need to go back to Leni Riefenstahl's Olympia -- where the races were frankly presented as between the whites and the blacks.

    We were watching some middle-distance women's race. Some black was winning for the US -- but we didn't care about that.

    Who was the white girl taking silver? What nation she was from was not our primary concern.

    Not any more.

    Replies: @Gordo

    Who was the white girl taking silver? What nation she was from was not our primary concern.

    Not any more.

    I support the White team, if it’s good for Whites it’s good.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  21. Geeze. I so don’t care.

  22. Randy Moss against Cowboys secondary, Thanksgiving 1998. That and this one, legend

  23. @Jim Christian
    Steve, is Bob Hayes from the 60s/70s Dallas Cowboys in the fastest 300? Also, Darryl Green of the 80s/90s Redskins? I know they were certainly fastest in their time in the NFL, and both were Olympians IIRC. Green running down Tony Dorset from 60 yards back and across the field on MNF circa 1982 was the greatest open field pursuit ever. Hayes and Green, do they rank?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Wolf Barney

    I believe Darrell Green (Washington Redskins) only competed in track during college, where he ran the 100 meters in 10.08. Perhaps you’re thinking of Willie Gault, who was an Olympic sprinter and played for the Bears in the NFL during the same time as Green. I think Green defeated Gault once in the “NFL Fastest Man” competition.

    • Thanks: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Wolf Barney

    I had Green in mind because he played Cover-Guy corner on my home team Redskins for 20 years. The Skins were good at finding Cover Guys that could go man to man against the league's best receivers, freeing up an extra rusher or linebacker. A Super bowl team doesn't leave home without one, preferably two. Gibbs always had cover guys, be they Green, Mayhew, AJ Johnson and a host of others. Bobby Beathard had a knack. They didn't do so bad with QBs, either.

  24. Honorable mention to the A’s Herb Washington, famed as the only “designated runner” in MLB history. (Despite being a baseball trivia question he actually did have an impressive track career)

  25. @Reg Cæsar

    Mary Kom, a light-flyweight boxer from Manipur who captured bronze at the 2012 Games in London, said she has long faced prejudice from Hindu nationalists who say that as a Christian, she is somehow not truly Indian.
     
    She's from the farthest eastern reaches of the country, almost in Burma, and looks it. She also seems way to feminine to be a boxer. At least in her civvies:


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Mary_Kom_-_British_High_Commission%2C_Delhi%2C_27_July_2011.jpg


    She looks tougher in the ring, especially next to fellow Indian boxers Nikhat Zareen and the wonderfully-named Pinki Rani Jangra:

    https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/msid-72654002,imgsize-214072,width-400,resizemode-4/72654002.jpg

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/USO0XhdYXXE/maxresdefault.jpg


    Mary now has a cross tattooed on that right bicep.

    Replies: @Trinity

    Makeup does wonders. Some female fighters ( MMA, boxing, karate, etc.) who actually looked decent with makeup were Kathy Long, Laila Ali, Meisha Tate, Ronda Rousey, Gina Carrano, etc. Without the war paint these females are not all that but certainly more easy on the eyes than Lucia Rijker, Ann Wolfe, Claressa Shields, Cyborg, ugh.

    With makeup, I say Gina Carrano and Meisha Tate are the two most or were the two most attractive fighters, without makeup, not so much.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Trinity


    Makeup does wonders.
     
    Facial expression does more. Mary Kom can turn it off. Megan Rapinoe cannot. Nasty is her default.



    https://images.teamusa.org/-/media/TeamUSA/Headshots/2020OlympicQualifiers/USWNT/Rapinoe_Megan_150x250.png?mh=250&mw=150&hash=B2C32842F9A26B98B0708BFB158480937CBA5C7D
  26. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Hmmm, maybe instead of contests about Who Can Run Fast, or Who Can Smash Into Each Other Hardest, or Who Can Throw a Rubber Ball Through a Hoop, we could have contests about Who Can Organize International Sports, Build Giant Stadiums for Them and Televise Them. If one guy can run 100m faster than another guy by .34 seconds, I'm more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.

    After the Battle of the Little Big Horn, a reporter asked one of the victorious Indian warriors how long the battle had taken. He replied, "About as long as it takes for a hungry man to eat his dinner."
    Very poetic: but if he had asked a losing US Cavalry soldier how long it took, he would have said, "Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes." Guess who wins the battle, and who wins the war.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    I’m more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.

    No need to worry. America is great in that regard too. We have Clock Boy on our team! Our future diverse, inclusive and equitable inventors are going to be GREAT!

    If your country’s technological and economic achievements begin to pale somewhat (not too many clock factories left in America) then at least you can point to your country’s continuing strength in the Throwing a Rubber Ball Through a Hoop department.

    Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes.”

    Until the invention of shock protection for the balance wheel, even a pocket watch would not have lasted long in the pocket of a cavalryman and they probably did not carry them into combat. Wristwatches only became popular during WWI because watches worn on the wrist take even more of a beating than a pocket watch.

    If an American soldier wears a watch nowadays, it’s probably made in Guangdong and not Waltham, MA. In any case, accurate time keeping, which was once a difficult technical problem, is solved beyond most practical needs – the real challenges today lie elsewhere.

  27. I just looked at the men’s 200m final on YouTube, and it appears that the runners were all black. So that would mean that out of 160 Olympic finalists since 1980 in the men’s 100m and 200m, just one (the Chinese guy) was nonblack. Right?

    (Too bad it was a Chinese guy rather than a white guy — it would have been Noticed, and would have provoked all sorts of comments, and all sorts of efforts to suppress such comments).

  28. @Rob
    Totally off topic

    Matty’s (on Twitter) recent tweet storm about Hungary got me thinking. Since there are no first world populations that are reproducing themselves, perhaps we should look at skilled immigration in a new light?

    It seems to me that if a country is producing more skilled (gifted/talented) labor than it can consume, does this not speak well of that country? Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively. Meanwhile, a country like the US, with around 50% of the under-thirty population being various sorts of third worlders, cannot produce all the smart people it needs. Does that not say something very bad about us? I don’t mean a prog very bad America is not turning its ‘groes into quantum doctors, more very bad about us - we are full of fruit pickers and surplus farm equipment.

    I am not sure where this puts various other countries. India produces lots of “smart” workers that it cannot use, but that is because India is third world. If it were developed, it would not produce anywhere near enough of a smart fraction to cover its needs. But Hungary is -not first world, perhaps - but developed to the point where everyone poops in toilets, and has a climate such that if they lived with India’s material culture, then hundreds of thousands would die for of exposure every winter.

    Doesn’t it mean that Hungarians are doing something right, that their labor is in demand in the rest of the world. I feel this does not apply to Mexico or Honduras, because they are producing unskilled workers in poverty - that is so easy even Africans can do it. Producing skilled craftsmen, though, and engineers. That is something the world has trouble doing,

    I realize that Hungary has a crappy TFR, but it seems to me that they are in a better place than America. The country is so flooded with third worlders that any pro-natalist policy would make everything worse. But Hungary is a real nation, and any transfers they made to encourage young parents would go to Hungarians.

    Am I totally off? I kinda think that being all ‘this applies to Hungary, but not third worlders, because reasons’ is special pleading. What say you guys?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively.

    Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven’t seen it.

    In most modern developed countries, there’s no shortage of smart people (yet). You don’t need that many smart people to run an economy. Top universities are getting 25 applications for every slot.

    What you really need (until they figure out robots for EVERYTHING) are legions and legions of low skilled people willing to do menial work. A strawberry farm or meatpacking plant has a handful of people in the office and maintaining the machinery and hundreds and hundreds of people doing menial labor. For every executive at WalMart HQ, there must be 1,000 retail employees. The US has lots of low skilled people but getting natives to do low paid work is difficult in a modern social welfare state where being on the dole or in some makework AA position as a “social worker” pays just as well and often better. There are an unlimited # of 3rd world people willing to do such work – they wouldn’t be sneaking across the border if their services were not in demand. As soon as Covid and unlimited unemployment payments disrupted the balance, we saw immediate staffing shortages in the low paid positions. AFAIK, there are no shortages in the executive ranks.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    You have two delusions here which sink your reasoning: one is that executives are "smart", and the other is that what you call "low paid work" should in fact be low paid.

    Also, you seem to think that "3rd world people" are sneaking across the border to "offer their services" when in fact what they want is a) free, nicer stuff, b) to not live in a toilet bowl, c) access to White people, and all the connected goods, both social and concrete, that Whites have ready to hand, and which leftists are giving away for free.

    As they used to say in grade school, your (((epidermis))) is showing.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Rob
    @Jack D

    This idea that an advanced economy needs umpteen gorillion unskilled workers to run, where does it come from? Historically, The first world was first world because we did not have huge numbers of unskilled laborers, and did have lots of capital per capita. That was way back when capital was the means of production, not dollars that the government was printing and shoveling into the ravenous maw of “capitalists.”

    It might be hard to believe, but capital (in ye olde thymes sense) can substitute and complement labor. Also hard to believe, there was a time when “American ingenuity” meant figuring out, and then building machines that did the jobs muscle power used to do. People had words like “progress” to describe the phenomenon. Back then, progress meant things getting better, even for labor. Now progress means sterilizing your daughter, because a BPD-er online convinced her that, because her parents did not understand her, she must be trans. Words change meaning like crazy!

    I have read, though I am not an expert, that US meatpacking plants have declined in sophistication since the 1960’s or so. Labor was unionized and American, so man-hours were expensive. There were lots of clever engineers, though. American companies could also prototype and build here back then. Smart engineers and designers figured out how to get more production out of a man-hour. The labor also spoke English, could read, and had IQ scores of, probably not 100, but mid-90’s. In the eighties and nineties, cheap, dumb Latinx labor was washing up on shore.

    Slaughterhouses substituted newly cheap labor for mechanically whizzytebangs that management was not comfortable with anyway. Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort. Back in the foggy origins of assembly lines, engineers deskilled tasks previously performed by more skilled, but less efficient tradesmen. That pleased the business types, because engineers were much more similar in class interests to the businessmen.

    I have also read that European slaughterhouses rely on less unskilled labor and more on technology. I think Europeans’ substitution of (real) capital for labor is a result of companies promoting engineers to executive positions, unlike US companies, which tend to put finance specialists in charge. European slaughterhouses did not have the same COVID difficulties as ours.

    The reliance on unskilled labor has longer term costs, though. Corvinus, in an attempt to pwn us on the Ottomans’ literary sophistication vis a vis the printing press, cited a scholar who wrote that the Sultan had less need of presses, because Istanbul had cheap, skilled scribes. But a printing press is, once developed, not a bit cheaper than a scribe, it is fantastically cheaper than scribes. So much cheaper that it completely changes costs and benefits in written work.

    Consider Frank Herbert’s Dune novel (just the one, not the sequels and prequels), the mentats were human computers. John von Neumann was sort of a real life version. A dumb emperor would want cheaper mentats (scribes) but a smart, visionary one would prefer computer-computers (printing presses). But once developed, computers are fantastically cheaper than idiot savants. They scale.

    A perhaps more relevant example will be the vegetable, fruit, and berry-harvesting robots compared to fruit pickers. A short-sighted farmer might want fruit-pickers today who are 10% cheaper. But that means there are more fruit pickers depressing the wages of current ones. But fruit picking machines? They scale: they can work all the damn time. If they are very expensive, bot-wranglers will travel the countryside with their entourage of machines, freeing the labor of former fruit-pickers for other tasks.

    This works better when your fruit pickers are capable of doing more than picking fruit. Freeing a thousand Terrence Taos, or Jack Ds, or even a near worthless Rob or two had more value than freeing a thousand Mexican Indios. The high cost of dumb labor is thing, too.

    Economies are dynamic things. There is no set amount of ‘unskilled’ or ‘skilled’ labor either needed or available. It appears that we have an insatiable desire for dumb helots, but that is somewhat illusory - the dumbs are here in reality, so mildly clever capitalists will find tasks they are suited for. If however, the fruit-pickers averaged 145 IQ and James Bond’s Q or Superhero movie Tony Starks, then society would not switch to the wealthy having more servants, but instead would switch to fantastical innovations.

    Take a kinda dumb example. Today, we get dim, short, dumpy Indios immigrating to LA. It looks like there is a near-insatiable demand for cleaning ladies behind the scenes. If however, these immigrants were tall, curvy, and lithe Norwegian blondes, smart entrepreneurs would not run maid services. They would run mistress services. Would these mistresses cook and clean? Yeah, probably, but they’d get paid more, as they would have modeling or acting competing for their valuable gifts.

    Perhaps I’m not explaining my view very well, but it seems to me that the insatiable “demand” for dumb laborers is actually driven by the massive supply of dumbs who can only do unskilled labor. It was a policy and HR decision by the political-legal class and capitalist class. We did not have to decide to become a third world country. Japan did not. China did not. Ergo, avoidable.

    Replies: @Jack D

  29. Steve mentions Valery Borzov, who won the 100 and 200 for the Soviet Union in 1972. Borzov married Ludmilla Tourischeva, the great Soviet gymnast, who was the last of the non-mini gymnasts. (If you are old you remember her and recall briefly falling in love; if you are young, you could watch a balance beam or free-exercise video.). Anyway, she had a famous quote that should have received current attention but has not:

    “I personally support the type of gymnastics which does not exceed a certain amount of acrobatics and risks because then one can still say: what a lovely sport gymnastics is.”

  30. Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven’t seen it.

    Ha, I once read a quip that the hydrogen bomb was a Hungarian high school science project that went a bit too far…

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Farenheit

    Ha, I once read a quip that the hydrogen bomb was a Hungarian high school science project that went a bit too far…

    But that was actually literally true. i.e. The ((( Hungarians))) who populated the Manhattan Project were all graduates of 2 high schools in Budapest , the Fasori( Eugene Wigner, John von Neumann, and Edward Teller) and Minta (Szilard, Kurti, Von Karman) Gymnasiums.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  31. @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Typical redneck idiot post.


    Gurkhas aren't "east Asian" or "Mongoloid", they are a mixed race population. Some are mostly Caucasoid while others are mostly Mongoloid; many are somewhere inbetween. The ruling tribes and notable soldiers of the Gurkhas are Caucasoid as you can see on their Wikipedia page, and it's these Gurkhas who have the reputation for military prowess. The Mongoloid looking Gurkhas who go to England today are the poor ones, and not the martial Gurkhas of colonial fame.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    So, his point about athletic performance is mooted by an unrelated group of people on wiki. Okay.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @J.Ross

    Are you fucking daft, or what? The guy Anon was replying to said Gurkhas were Mongoloid. Anon then countered that not all Gurkhas are Mongoloid -- see their Wikipedia page. Use your brain harder, tarder.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  32. US women won gold in the 4×100 relay in 2012 and 2016 and made it to the finals this year. We’ll see if they can keep their streak going.

  33. @Trinity
    @Reg Cæsar

    Makeup does wonders. Some female fighters ( MMA, boxing, karate, etc.) who actually looked decent with makeup were Kathy Long, Laila Ali, Meisha Tate, Ronda Rousey, Gina Carrano, etc. Without the war paint these females are not all that but certainly more easy on the eyes than Lucia Rijker, Ann Wolfe, Claressa Shields, Cyborg, ugh.

    With makeup, I say Gina Carrano and Meisha Tate are the two most or were the two most attractive fighters, without makeup, not so much.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Makeup does wonders.

    Facial expression does more. Mary Kom can turn it off. Megan Rapinoe cannot. Nasty is her default.

  34. @Farenheit

    Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven’t seen it.
     
    Ha, I once read a quip that the hydrogen bomb was a Hungarian high school science project that went a bit too far...

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Ha, I once read a quip that the hydrogen bomb was a Hungarian high school science project that went a bit too far…

    But that was actually literally true. i.e. The ((( Hungarians))) who populated the Manhattan Project were all graduates of 2 high schools in Budapest , the Fasori( Eugene Wigner, John von Neumann, and Edward Teller) and Minta (Szilard, Kurti, Von Karman) Gymnasiums.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @kaganovitch

    Not many Manhattan Project alumni were willing to participate in hydrogen (not atomic) bomb development. John Archibald Wheeler was the one notable exception which comes to mind.
    Wheeler and Willard Libby were the exceptions which proved the rule regarding liberal/Bolshevik physicists!

  35. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Hmmm, maybe instead of contests about Who Can Run Fast, or Who Can Smash Into Each Other Hardest, or Who Can Throw a Rubber Ball Through a Hoop, we could have contests about Who Can Organize International Sports, Build Giant Stadiums for Them and Televise Them. If one guy can run 100m faster than another guy by .34 seconds, I'm more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.

    After the Battle of the Little Big Horn, a reporter asked one of the victorious Indian warriors how long the battle had taken. He replied, "About as long as it takes for a hungry man to eat his dinner."
    Very poetic: but if he had asked a losing US Cavalry soldier how long it took, he would have said, "Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes." Guess who wins the battle, and who wins the war.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    …I’m more impressed by who built the clock than by who ran the race.

    “Well, according to my precision mass-manufactured watch, it took 23 minutes.” Guess who wins the battle, and who wins the war.

    So if John Harrison had worked a little faster, we’d still be under the Crown, and Joe Biden would be Governor General?

    John Harrison’s Marine Chronometers

  36. @res
    Thanks for the data. I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure). It might be interesting to add per capita results for each distance.

    Most of the population data is from https://www.worldometers.info/population/world/
    Persian Gulf from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gcc-countries
    Five Eyes from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/five-eyes-countries

    Might be good to check how well the regions correspond with yours.

    CSV after the MORE.



    Top 300 Men’s Runners Ever,100m,200m,400m,800m,1500m,5000m,"10,000m",Marathon,Total,Population,Total per 1M
    Caribbean,64,48,54,5,0,0,0,0,171,"43,747,735",3.909
    Western Africa,26,15,10,4,0,0,0,0,55,"412,996,732",0.133
    Eastern Africa,4,4,16,94,111,185,206,254,874,"457,696,019",1.910
    Southern Africa,13,16,11,11,4,1,1,3,60,"68,449,288",0.877
    Northwest Africa,0,0,0,17,29,27,12,7,92,"251,026,522",0.366
    Northeast Asia,13,10,1,1,0,1,5,14,45,"1,684,074,765",0.027
    South Asia,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,"1,964,387,146",0.001
    Southeast Asia,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,2,"675,793,043",0.003
    5 Eyes (US UK NZ A C),148,161,162,78,70,37,37,4,697,"469,838,950",1.483
    Eastern Europe,3,9,10,22,9,2,2,0,57,"292,539,491",0.195
    Western Europe,16,18,18,47,64,31,24,11,229,"196,827,972",1.163
    Western Asia,3,1,0,2,1,3,2,1,13,"284,292,322",0.046
    Persian Gulf,5,2,11,10,11,11,6,4,60,"59,562,521",1.007
    Brazil,3,9,2,6,1,,1,2,24,"214,202,856",0.112
    Other Latin America,1,7,4,3,0,2,3,0,20,"402,356,118",0.050
    Total,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,300,2400,"7,477,791,480",0.321

    Replies: @Anonymous, @showmethereal

    The Caribbean – like the US – Canada – Great Britain – the sprinters have West African genes. The Caribbean is a super concentrated version – as remember the fittest slaves were taken from Africa to the west…

  37. @Anonymous
    @res

    "I gathered some population data to go with that and also computed the overall per capita total (The Caribbean is an extreme outlier by that measure)."
    (and wow... look at Caribbean vs West Africa...33x!)
    This strikes me as needing a cultural explanation.
    Regardless of your biological starting point, you need great mental focus both in starting and in focusing once you're in it. And to get to the point where you've got that, you need the mental discipline to submit to the training.
    These are small and smaller countries that manage to cultivate the idea that winning reknown via athletics is an admirable goal.
    (which it is... but life is complex...)

    https://youtu.be/JpvDC_s8aDg

    Replies: @showmethereal

    The Caribbean is a high concentration of the fittest West Africans… Those are the slaves that were taken.

  38. @J.Ross
    @Anon

    So, his point about athletic performance is mooted by an unrelated group of people on wiki. Okay.

    Replies: @Anon

    Are you fucking daft, or what? The guy Anon was replying to said Gurkhas were Mongoloid. Anon then countered that not all Gurkhas are Mongoloid — see their Wikipedia page. Use your brain harder, tarder.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Okay, but go back and read what was actually written. So.

  39. @Jack D
    @Rob


    Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively.
     
    Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven't seen it.

    In most modern developed countries, there's no shortage of smart people (yet). You don't need that many smart people to run an economy. Top universities are getting 25 applications for every slot.

    What you really need (until they figure out robots for EVERYTHING) are legions and legions of low skilled people willing to do menial work. A strawberry farm or meatpacking plant has a handful of people in the office and maintaining the machinery and hundreds and hundreds of people doing menial labor. For every executive at WalMart HQ, there must be 1,000 retail employees. The US has lots of low skilled people but getting natives to do low paid work is difficult in a modern social welfare state where being on the dole or in some makework AA position as a "social worker" pays just as well and often better. There are an unlimited # of 3rd world people willing to do such work - they wouldn't be sneaking across the border if their services were not in demand. As soon as Covid and unlimited unemployment payments disrupted the balance, we saw immediate staffing shortages in the low paid positions. AFAIK, there are no shortages in the executive ranks.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Rob

    You have two delusions here which sink your reasoning: one is that executives are “smart”, and the other is that what you call “low paid work” should in fact be low paid.

    Also, you seem to think that “3rd world people” are sneaking across the border to “offer their services” when in fact what they want is a) free, nicer stuff, b) to not live in a toilet bowl, c) access to White people, and all the connected goods, both social and concrete, that Whites have ready to hand, and which leftists are giving away for free.

    As they used to say in grade school, your (((epidermis))) is showing.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    what you call “low paid work” should in fact be low paid.
     
    The ones who are delusional are the high minimum wage advocates. If you are doing work that creates $10/hr in added value for your employer, there's no way that the employer can pay you $15 just because the government says so.

    Now low paid work is partly a matter of supply and demand - a Starbucks barista creates a lot more than $12 worth of value added every hour but Starbucks can get away with paying $12 because there are a lot of people willing to do that job. Immigration increases the available supply and so tends to depress wages. But even if you ended all immigration and sealed the borders tight, no employer can pay more than the added value created and remain in business.

    Sealing the borders doesn't mean higher pay, it means more robots to do the low value added tasks. Or the retailer trying to turn you into their unpaid workforce - input your own order at the self-service kiosk, here's a cup - get your own soda, and please bus your own table. Maybe they could press gang you into mopping the floor before they let you leave the restaurant?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  40. Rob says: • Website
    @Jack D
    @Rob


    Hungary produces more smart people than its economy can use productively.
     
    Is that true? If there is a large diaspora of talented Hungarians forced to seek work overseas, I haven't seen it.

    In most modern developed countries, there's no shortage of smart people (yet). You don't need that many smart people to run an economy. Top universities are getting 25 applications for every slot.

    What you really need (until they figure out robots for EVERYTHING) are legions and legions of low skilled people willing to do menial work. A strawberry farm or meatpacking plant has a handful of people in the office and maintaining the machinery and hundreds and hundreds of people doing menial labor. For every executive at WalMart HQ, there must be 1,000 retail employees. The US has lots of low skilled people but getting natives to do low paid work is difficult in a modern social welfare state where being on the dole or in some makework AA position as a "social worker" pays just as well and often better. There are an unlimited # of 3rd world people willing to do such work - they wouldn't be sneaking across the border if their services were not in demand. As soon as Covid and unlimited unemployment payments disrupted the balance, we saw immediate staffing shortages in the low paid positions. AFAIK, there are no shortages in the executive ranks.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Rob

    This idea that an advanced economy needs umpteen gorillion unskilled workers to run, where does it come from? Historically, The first world was first world because we did not have huge numbers of unskilled laborers, and did have lots of capital per capita. That was way back when capital was the means of production, not dollars that the government was printing and shoveling into the ravenous maw of “capitalists.”

    It might be hard to believe, but capital (in ye olde thymes sense) can substitute and complement labor. Also hard to believe, there was a time when “American ingenuity” meant figuring out, and then building machines that did the jobs muscle power used to do. People had words like “progress” to describe the phenomenon. Back then, progress meant things getting better, even for labor. Now progress means sterilizing your daughter, because a BPD-er online convinced her that, because her parents did not understand her, she must be trans. Words change meaning like crazy!

    I have read, though I am not an expert, that US meatpacking plants have declined in sophistication since the 1960’s or so. Labor was unionized and American, so man-hours were expensive. There were lots of clever engineers, though. American companies could also prototype and build here back then. Smart engineers and designers figured out how to get more production out of a man-hour. The labor also spoke English, could read, and had IQ scores of, probably not 100, but mid-90’s. In the eighties and nineties, cheap, dumb Latinx labor was washing up on shore.

    Slaughterhouses substituted newly cheap labor for mechanically whizzytebangs that management was not comfortable with anyway. Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort. Back in the foggy origins of assembly lines, engineers deskilled tasks previously performed by more skilled, but less efficient tradesmen. That pleased the business types, because engineers were much more similar in class interests to the businessmen.

    I have also read that European slaughterhouses rely on less unskilled labor and more on technology. I think Europeans’ substitution of (real) capital for labor is a result of companies promoting engineers to executive positions, unlike US companies, which tend to put finance specialists in charge. European slaughterhouses did not have the same COVID difficulties as ours.

    The reliance on unskilled labor has longer term costs, though. Corvinus, in an attempt to pwn us on the Ottomans’ literary sophistication vis a vis the printing press, cited a scholar who wrote that the Sultan had less need of presses, because Istanbul had cheap, skilled scribes. But a printing press is, once developed, not a bit cheaper than a scribe, it is fantastically cheaper than scribes. So much cheaper that it completely changes costs and benefits in written work.

    Consider Frank Herbert’s Dune novel (just the one, not the sequels and prequels), the mentats were human computers. John von Neumann was sort of a real life version. A dumb emperor would want cheaper mentats (scribes) but a smart, visionary one would prefer computer-computers (printing presses). But once developed, computers are fantastically cheaper than idiot savants. They scale.

    A perhaps more relevant example will be the vegetable, fruit, and berry-harvesting robots compared to fruit pickers. A short-sighted farmer might want fruit-pickers today who are 10% cheaper. But that means there are more fruit pickers depressing the wages of current ones. But fruit picking machines? They scale: they can work all the damn time. If they are very expensive, bot-wranglers will travel the countryside with their entourage of machines, freeing the labor of former fruit-pickers for other tasks.

    This works better when your fruit pickers are capable of doing more than picking fruit. Freeing a thousand Terrence Taos, or Jack Ds, or even a near worthless Rob or two had more value than freeing a thousand Mexican Indios. The high cost of dumb labor is thing, too.

    Economies are dynamic things. There is no set amount of ‘unskilled’ or ‘skilled’ labor either needed or available. It appears that we have an insatiable desire for dumb helots, but that is somewhat illusory – the dumbs are here in reality, so mildly clever capitalists will find tasks they are suited for. If however, the fruit-pickers averaged 145 IQ and James Bond’s Q or Superhero movie Tony Starks, then society would not switch to the wealthy having more servants, but instead would switch to fantastical innovations.

    Take a kinda dumb example. Today, we get dim, short, dumpy Indios immigrating to LA. It looks like there is a near-insatiable demand for cleaning ladies behind the scenes. If however, these immigrants were tall, curvy, and lithe Norwegian blondes, smart entrepreneurs would not run maid services. They would run mistress services. Would these mistresses cook and clean? Yeah, probably, but they’d get paid more, as they would have modeling or acting competing for their valuable gifts.

    Perhaps I’m not explaining my view very well, but it seems to me that the insatiable “demand” for dumb laborers is actually driven by the massive supply of dumbs who can only do unskilled labor. It was a policy and HR decision by the political-legal class and capitalist class. We did not have to decide to become a third world country. Japan did not. China did not. Ergo, avoidable.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Rob


    Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort.
     
    I don't know if you've noticed, but poultry in America is crazy cheap. It's a very competitive industry that has enormous volumes, so that if you can save even a penny a lb. it would add significantly to your plant's bottom line. So if some "visuospatial thinker" presents a gizmo to Tyson management (who BTW are no slouches in the numerical intelligence dept.) they are going to get out their pencils and do the math and if they think that it will save them a penny, they will be testing that machine out on the line tomorrow. But, if they put the machine on the line and it kinda sorta works except when it doesn't work at all, they are gonna call you to come and pick it up. I had an actual case (not in a poultry plant but another type of manufacturer) where exactly this happened. It's like self-driving trucks - the trucking companies would LOVE to have them and get rid of their drivers, but they don't quite work just yet.

    Replies: @Rob

  41. @Anon
    @J.Ross

    Are you fucking daft, or what? The guy Anon was replying to said Gurkhas were Mongoloid. Anon then countered that not all Gurkhas are Mongoloid -- see their Wikipedia page. Use your brain harder, tarder.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Okay, but go back and read what was actually written. So.

  42. > All truths are connected to each other, while all lies are dead ends.

    Great quote at the end, is that original or did someone else say it first?

  43. @kaganovitch
    @Farenheit

    Ha, I once read a quip that the hydrogen bomb was a Hungarian high school science project that went a bit too far…

    But that was actually literally true. i.e. The ((( Hungarians))) who populated the Manhattan Project were all graduates of 2 high schools in Budapest , the Fasori( Eugene Wigner, John von Neumann, and Edward Teller) and Minta (Szilard, Kurti, Von Karman) Gymnasiums.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Not many Manhattan Project alumni were willing to participate in hydrogen (not atomic) bomb development. John Archibald Wheeler was the one notable exception which comes to mind.
    Wheeler and Willard Libby were the exceptions which proved the rule regarding liberal/Bolshevik physicists!

  44. @Wolf Barney
    @Jim Christian

    I believe Darrell Green (Washington Redskins) only competed in track during college, where he ran the 100 meters in 10.08. Perhaps you're thinking of Willie Gault, who was an Olympic sprinter and played for the Bears in the NFL during the same time as Green. I think Green defeated Gault once in the "NFL Fastest Man" competition.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    I had Green in mind because he played Cover-Guy corner on my home team Redskins for 20 years. The Skins were good at finding Cover Guys that could go man to man against the league’s best receivers, freeing up an extra rusher or linebacker. A Super bowl team doesn’t leave home without one, preferably two. Gibbs always had cover guys, be they Green, Mayhew, AJ Johnson and a host of others. Bobby Beathard had a knack. They didn’t do so bad with QBs, either.

  45. @Rob
    @Jack D

    This idea that an advanced economy needs umpteen gorillion unskilled workers to run, where does it come from? Historically, The first world was first world because we did not have huge numbers of unskilled laborers, and did have lots of capital per capita. That was way back when capital was the means of production, not dollars that the government was printing and shoveling into the ravenous maw of “capitalists.”

    It might be hard to believe, but capital (in ye olde thymes sense) can substitute and complement labor. Also hard to believe, there was a time when “American ingenuity” meant figuring out, and then building machines that did the jobs muscle power used to do. People had words like “progress” to describe the phenomenon. Back then, progress meant things getting better, even for labor. Now progress means sterilizing your daughter, because a BPD-er online convinced her that, because her parents did not understand her, she must be trans. Words change meaning like crazy!

    I have read, though I am not an expert, that US meatpacking plants have declined in sophistication since the 1960’s or so. Labor was unionized and American, so man-hours were expensive. There were lots of clever engineers, though. American companies could also prototype and build here back then. Smart engineers and designers figured out how to get more production out of a man-hour. The labor also spoke English, could read, and had IQ scores of, probably not 100, but mid-90’s. In the eighties and nineties, cheap, dumb Latinx labor was washing up on shore.

    Slaughterhouses substituted newly cheap labor for mechanically whizzytebangs that management was not comfortable with anyway. Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort. Back in the foggy origins of assembly lines, engineers deskilled tasks previously performed by more skilled, but less efficient tradesmen. That pleased the business types, because engineers were much more similar in class interests to the businessmen.

    I have also read that European slaughterhouses rely on less unskilled labor and more on technology. I think Europeans’ substitution of (real) capital for labor is a result of companies promoting engineers to executive positions, unlike US companies, which tend to put finance specialists in charge. European slaughterhouses did not have the same COVID difficulties as ours.

    The reliance on unskilled labor has longer term costs, though. Corvinus, in an attempt to pwn us on the Ottomans’ literary sophistication vis a vis the printing press, cited a scholar who wrote that the Sultan had less need of presses, because Istanbul had cheap, skilled scribes. But a printing press is, once developed, not a bit cheaper than a scribe, it is fantastically cheaper than scribes. So much cheaper that it completely changes costs and benefits in written work.

    Consider Frank Herbert’s Dune novel (just the one, not the sequels and prequels), the mentats were human computers. John von Neumann was sort of a real life version. A dumb emperor would want cheaper mentats (scribes) but a smart, visionary one would prefer computer-computers (printing presses). But once developed, computers are fantastically cheaper than idiot savants. They scale.

    A perhaps more relevant example will be the vegetable, fruit, and berry-harvesting robots compared to fruit pickers. A short-sighted farmer might want fruit-pickers today who are 10% cheaper. But that means there are more fruit pickers depressing the wages of current ones. But fruit picking machines? They scale: they can work all the damn time. If they are very expensive, bot-wranglers will travel the countryside with their entourage of machines, freeing the labor of former fruit-pickers for other tasks.

    This works better when your fruit pickers are capable of doing more than picking fruit. Freeing a thousand Terrence Taos, or Jack Ds, or even a near worthless Rob or two had more value than freeing a thousand Mexican Indios. The high cost of dumb labor is thing, too.

    Economies are dynamic things. There is no set amount of ‘unskilled’ or ‘skilled’ labor either needed or available. It appears that we have an insatiable desire for dumb helots, but that is somewhat illusory - the dumbs are here in reality, so mildly clever capitalists will find tasks they are suited for. If however, the fruit-pickers averaged 145 IQ and James Bond’s Q or Superhero movie Tony Starks, then society would not switch to the wealthy having more servants, but instead would switch to fantastical innovations.

    Take a kinda dumb example. Today, we get dim, short, dumpy Indios immigrating to LA. It looks like there is a near-insatiable demand for cleaning ladies behind the scenes. If however, these immigrants were tall, curvy, and lithe Norwegian blondes, smart entrepreneurs would not run maid services. They would run mistress services. Would these mistresses cook and clean? Yeah, probably, but they’d get paid more, as they would have modeling or acting competing for their valuable gifts.

    Perhaps I’m not explaining my view very well, but it seems to me that the insatiable “demand” for dumb laborers is actually driven by the massive supply of dumbs who can only do unskilled labor. It was a policy and HR decision by the political-legal class and capitalist class. We did not have to decide to become a third world country. Japan did not. China did not. Ergo, avoidable.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort.

    I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but poultry in America is crazy cheap. It’s a very competitive industry that has enormous volumes, so that if you can save even a penny a lb. it would add significantly to your plant’s bottom line. So if some “visuospatial thinker” presents a gizmo to Tyson management (who BTW are no slouches in the numerical intelligence dept.) they are going to get out their pencils and do the math and if they think that it will save them a penny, they will be testing that machine out on the line tomorrow. But, if they put the machine on the line and it kinda sorta works except when it doesn’t work at all, they are gonna call you to come and pick it up. I had an actual case (not in a poultry plant but another type of manufacturer) where exactly this happened. It’s like self-driving trucks – the trucking companies would LOVE to have them and get rid of their drivers, but they don’t quite work just yet.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Jack D

    Ok. I will totally buy that x labor-reducing thing does not work yet. Yet is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Does it seem like a clever idea to turn the US into a third world country to “solve” a short term problem? We already have one visually distinct minority that was imported as a fix for a temporary problem. Their economic niche is gone, yet they remain. Is it really a good idea to do it again?

    I realize your answer would be different for a country where you were a member of the dominant and predominant ethnic group, so I’ll ask it slightly differently. Will it turn out well for Jews to be seen as the ones who stabbed America in the back? Leave aside that Jews did not stab Germany in the back in WWI, was the widespread perception that Jews had done so good for German Jews? Or Eastern Jews, for that matter. Over on Astral Codex 10, Scott had a thread on Jewish success in America. One of the Jewish commenters said that ancestors who moved from country to country to avoid their obligations as citizens to serve in the military. One might wonder, would anti-Semitism have been as severe as it actually was, if Jews had shouldered the burdens of citizenship, instead of just showing up after wars to “help

    If it were put to a plebiscite, “should the US grow at 2% a year for five years, and then at 8 percent a year forever (because robots and AI do so much) or should the US grow at 3% a year until the house of cards collapses. If the house does not collapse, America will be third world forever.” I think Americans would vote for slow now, fast later. Corporations would vote for 3% until collapse. Their reasoning would be that a) it might not collapse b) they are on top now, but superior people would eat their lunch come the singularity c) the rich and (((rich))) think China is going to welcome them with open arms once they are done stabbing America in the back.

    I think the MAGA coalition (such as it was) cannot work, but the up and coming smart fraction sees that there are fewer opportunities for them. They cannot have all children, education, and financial stability. For many, getting any of those will be impossible.

    I find it bizarre that a man your age (I am guessing here, but iirc you were born before 1970, right?) is arguing that the post war economic boon, where the US a high tech, high wage, high natality, low immigration nation. A country where housing and education were, by the standards of today, practically free. A country with incomes so high relative to expenses that middle class women did not need jobs. That country did not exist? It simply was impossible!

    Do not get me wrong, there are a ton of modern advances I would not go back on. But even the social changes that are counted as unmixed blessings were actually mixed. Smart blacks could abandon the black community and live and work among whites. That was obviously good for those blacks, but the cost (to them) was always being a token, a living fetish to the gods of Diversity, not bringing talents and ability to the job. Never advancing in ability, because economic reward is uncoupled to blacks’ ability. Not to mention that given how much blacks dislike the stereotype of blacks being dumb, it must be very hard on the smart blacks to always be the dumbest person in the room. The cost to the bottom half of blacks can hardly be calculated.

    Gays are much more free today - but gay liberation was bought with gay corpses.

    Jews are by far the dominant ethnicity, but given how badly their America is turning out, the bill on that might be steep. Certainly the gutting of Higher Ed that is coming will be very hard on a lot of Jews. Given the reaction to CRT in schools, I think lower education is about to get reckt, too.

    You know how no one is super-optimistic about the future these days? No one is all, “in 15 years, when x is up and running, something or other will be great! Find out what it will mean for your community”? No one can imagine the post-white American economy, because it just won’t work half bipoc. Most everyone knows the culture, especially in education, is based on lies. No kid is better at math than another kid? Every kid knows some are! Racism is the only cause of racial disparities? Even the beneficiaries of modern propaganda, like female blacks, knows it is all lies. They are not happy, they are terrified of where they are going to be when the music stops.

    No drunk man is super-optimistic about how he’s gonna feel the next morning. America has been on a 60 year bender. We will be lucky to survive. Good thing all the industry moved to China, where it will be safe!

  46. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    You have two delusions here which sink your reasoning: one is that executives are "smart", and the other is that what you call "low paid work" should in fact be low paid.

    Also, you seem to think that "3rd world people" are sneaking across the border to "offer their services" when in fact what they want is a) free, nicer stuff, b) to not live in a toilet bowl, c) access to White people, and all the connected goods, both social and concrete, that Whites have ready to hand, and which leftists are giving away for free.

    As they used to say in grade school, your (((epidermis))) is showing.

    Replies: @Jack D

    what you call “low paid work” should in fact be low paid.

    The ones who are delusional are the high minimum wage advocates. If you are doing work that creates \$10/hr in added value for your employer, there’s no way that the employer can pay you \$15 just because the government says so.

    Now low paid work is partly a matter of supply and demand – a Starbucks barista creates a lot more than \$12 worth of value added every hour but Starbucks can get away with paying \$12 because there are a lot of people willing to do that job. Immigration increases the available supply and so tends to depress wages. But even if you ended all immigration and sealed the borders tight, no employer can pay more than the added value created and remain in business.

    Sealing the borders doesn’t mean higher pay, it means more robots to do the low value added tasks. Or the retailer trying to turn you into their unpaid workforce – input your own order at the self-service kiosk, here’s a cup – get your own soda, and please bus your own table. Maybe they could press gang you into mopping the floor before they let you leave the restaurant?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    So... you get your sense of the fate of a nation and its people out of a freshman-year economics textbook.

    Velly implessive.

  47. @Jack D
    @Rob


    Technically sophisticated production puts power in the hands of physicistDave’s visuospatial thinkers relative to the verbally (and numerically) intelligent managerial sort.
     
    I don't know if you've noticed, but poultry in America is crazy cheap. It's a very competitive industry that has enormous volumes, so that if you can save even a penny a lb. it would add significantly to your plant's bottom line. So if some "visuospatial thinker" presents a gizmo to Tyson management (who BTW are no slouches in the numerical intelligence dept.) they are going to get out their pencils and do the math and if they think that it will save them a penny, they will be testing that machine out on the line tomorrow. But, if they put the machine on the line and it kinda sorta works except when it doesn't work at all, they are gonna call you to come and pick it up. I had an actual case (not in a poultry plant but another type of manufacturer) where exactly this happened. It's like self-driving trucks - the trucking companies would LOVE to have them and get rid of their drivers, but they don't quite work just yet.

    Replies: @Rob

    Ok. I will totally buy that x labor-reducing thing does not work yet. Yet is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Does it seem like a clever idea to turn the US into a third world country to “solve” a short term problem? We already have one visually distinct minority that was imported as a fix for a temporary problem. Their economic niche is gone, yet they remain. Is it really a good idea to do it again?

    I realize your answer would be different for a country where you were a member of the dominant and predominant ethnic group, so I’ll ask it slightly differently. Will it turn out well for Jews to be seen as the ones who stabbed America in the back? Leave aside that Jews did not stab Germany in the back in WWI, was the widespread perception that Jews had done so good for German Jews? Or Eastern Jews, for that matter. Over on Astral Codex 10, Scott had a thread on Jewish success in America. One of the Jewish commenters said that ancestors who moved from country to country to avoid their obligations as citizens to serve in the military. One might wonder, would anti-Semitism have been as severe as it actually was, if Jews had shouldered the burdens of citizenship, instead of just showing up after wars to “help

    If it were put to a plebiscite, “should the US grow at 2% a year for five years, and then at 8 percent a year forever (because robots and AI do so much) or should the US grow at 3% a year until the house of cards collapses. If the house does not collapse, America will be third world forever.” I think Americans would vote for slow now, fast later. Corporations would vote for 3% until collapse. Their reasoning would be that a) it might not collapse b) they are on top now, but superior people would eat their lunch come the singularity c) the rich and (((rich))) think China is going to welcome them with open arms once they are done stabbing America in the back.

    I think the MAGA coalition (such as it was) cannot work, but the up and coming smart fraction sees that there are fewer opportunities for them. They cannot have all children, education, and financial stability. For many, getting any of those will be impossible.

    I find it bizarre that a man your age (I am guessing here, but iirc you were born before 1970, right?) is arguing that the post war economic boon, where the US a high tech, high wage, high natality, low immigration nation. A country where housing and education were, by the standards of today, practically free. A country with incomes so high relative to expenses that middle class women did not need jobs. That country did not exist? It simply was impossible!

    Do not get me wrong, there are a ton of modern advances I would not go back on. But even the social changes that are counted as unmixed blessings were actually mixed. Smart blacks could abandon the black community and live and work among whites. That was obviously good for those blacks, but the cost (to them) was always being a token, a living fetish to the gods of Diversity, not bringing talents and ability to the job. Never advancing in ability, because economic reward is uncoupled to blacks’ ability. Not to mention that given how much blacks dislike the stereotype of blacks being dumb, it must be very hard on the smart blacks to always be the dumbest person in the room. The cost to the bottom half of blacks can hardly be calculated.

    Gays are much more free today – but gay liberation was bought with gay corpses.

    Jews are by far the dominant ethnicity, but given how badly their America is turning out, the bill on that might be steep. Certainly the gutting of Higher Ed that is coming will be very hard on a lot of Jews. Given the reaction to CRT in schools, I think lower education is about to get reckt, too.

    You know how no one is super-optimistic about the future these days? No one is all, “in 15 years, when x is up and running, something or other will be great! Find out what it will mean for your community”? No one can imagine the post-white American economy, because it just won’t work half bipoc. Most everyone knows the culture, especially in education, is based on lies. No kid is better at math than another kid? Every kid knows some are! Racism is the only cause of racial disparities? Even the beneficiaries of modern propaganda, like female blacks, knows it is all lies. They are not happy, they are terrified of where they are going to be when the music stops.

    No drunk man is super-optimistic about how he’s gonna feel the next morning. America has been on a 60 year bender. We will be lucky to survive. Good thing all the industry moved to China, where it will be safe!

  48. @Jack D
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    what you call “low paid work” should in fact be low paid.
     
    The ones who are delusional are the high minimum wage advocates. If you are doing work that creates $10/hr in added value for your employer, there's no way that the employer can pay you $15 just because the government says so.

    Now low paid work is partly a matter of supply and demand - a Starbucks barista creates a lot more than $12 worth of value added every hour but Starbucks can get away with paying $12 because there are a lot of people willing to do that job. Immigration increases the available supply and so tends to depress wages. But even if you ended all immigration and sealed the borders tight, no employer can pay more than the added value created and remain in business.

    Sealing the borders doesn't mean higher pay, it means more robots to do the low value added tasks. Or the retailer trying to turn you into their unpaid workforce - input your own order at the self-service kiosk, here's a cup - get your own soda, and please bus your own table. Maybe they could press gang you into mopping the floor before they let you leave the restaurant?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    So… you get your sense of the fate of a nation and its people out of a freshman-year economics textbook.

    Velly implessive.

  49. Largely forgotten but true, in respnse to the combination of ski design and average phenotype that led to major success for male Japanese ski-jumpers up to and including at Nagano, the rule-makers changed the rules.

    Kind of like the reverse of gymnastics and Simone Biles.

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