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Testing Gregory Clark's Theories with Ancient DNA
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Ancient DNA has been used so far largely for the study of racial groups: e.g., the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago are pretty different from the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago, but the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago are not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago.

But ancient DNA can also be used to answer questions about much smaller groups, such as local families.

One of the basic anthropological questions is what kind of family structure does a culture have: e.g., do the husbands move in with their wives’ families or do the wives move in with their husbands’ families? But with prehistoric cultures, that’s been hard to figure out from the anthropological record, such as pottery shards and burial goods. But now they can use ancient DNA to figure out who was related to whom.

From Science:

Kinship-based social inequality in Bronze Age Europe

Alissa Mittnik, Ken Massy, Corina Knipper5, Fabian Wittenborn5, Saskia Pfrengle1, Nadine Carlichi-Witjes7, Heidi Deeg8, Anja Furtwängler2, Michaela Harbeck9, Kristin von Heyking7, Catharina Kociumaka10, Isil Kucukkalipci2, Susanne Lindauer5, Stephanie Metz6,11, Anja Staskiewicz12, Andreas Thiel13, Joachim Wahl13, Wolfgang Haak1, Ernst Pernicka5, Stephan Schiffels1, Philipp W. Stockhammer1,4,*, Johannes Krause1,2,*
See all authors and affiliations

Science 10 Oct 2019:

Abstract
Revealing and understanding the mechanisms behind social inequality in prehistoric societies is a major challenge. By combining genome wide data, isotopic evidence as well as anthropological and archaeological data, we go beyond the dominating supra-regional approaches in archaeogenetics to shed light on the complexity of social status, inheritance rules and mobility during the Bronze Age. We apply a deep micro-regional approach and analyze genome wide data of 104 human individuals deriving from farmstead-related cemeteries from the Late Neolithic to the Middle Bronze Age in southern Germany. Our results reveal that individual households lasting several generations consisted of a high-status core family and unrelated low-status individuals, a social organization accompanied by patrilocality and female exogamy, and the stability of this system over 700 years.

So for one village in southern Germany about 4,000 years ago, the culture turns out to have been highly stable for about 700 years. This data point can be used to put in perspective David Reich’s contention that the past was a flurry of migrations and invasions, which many, such as Angela Saini, see as legitimizing mass immigration today.

In this one example, following the steppe barbarian invasions of about 4,500 years ago, not much seems to have happened to change the population over a long period of time. The same families seemed to have hung around for long times, with perhaps some gene flow from women from further away.

This technology would seem to make it feasible to test the speculations of economic historian Gregory Clark, who did lots of archival research on old British wills and surnames in 1200-1800. Clark thinks that most English today are descended largely from the prosperous farmers of the past, rather than from impoverished farm laborers or violent aristocrats. And he suspects they might have evolved genetically over this time to become more bourgeois.

England is full of marked graves of old timers for whom the probate records of their wealth are also on file. If you could dig up a bunch of these bodies with wills and scan their DNA, you’d have gotten pretty far toward testing Clark’s hypotheses.

Of course, there are those pesky grave-robbing laws.

 
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  1. OT perhaps, but the guys (sorry ladies) who conquered the Aztecs and Incas were related.

    And right around now 500 years ago the most important mission statement was made in Cholula.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernán_Cortés

    Where are the diversity celebrations?

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Cortes
    PS (or maybe PD)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day
  2. the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago are pretty different from the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago, but not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago.

    Is that what you meant to say, or did you mean to say that the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago are not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago?

    As it stands, you are saying that the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago went away and then came back.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    No, you're just simple minded. What he's saying is that Britain was originally inhabited by Western Hunter Gatherers, who were replaced by a hybrid people who were 75% Eastern Hunter Gatherer/40% Western Hunter Gatherer. Today British people are about 50% Western Hunter Gatherer, ~35% Neolithic Farmer and ~17% Eastern Hunter Gatherer. The autosomal ancestry of Western Europe has been shifting towards WHG/ENF for the last 4000 years.
    , @Lot
    What Steve means to say is William the Conqueror dindu nuttin.

    https://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Ten-Things-You-May-Not-Have-Noticed-in-the-Bayeux-Tapestry.jpg
    , @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, I'll fix it.
  3. @Cortes
    OT perhaps, but the guys (sorry ladies) who conquered the Aztecs and Incas were related.

    And right around now 500 years ago the most important mission statement was made in Cholula.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernán_Cortés

    Where are the diversity celebrations?
  4. “there are those pesky grave-robbing laws”

    I wasn’t aware of those laws.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Neither was I. Uh, changing the subject, want to buy a diamond ring?
    , @Steve in Greensboro
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse, you know.
  5. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @Glaivester
    the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago are pretty different from the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago, but not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago.

    Is that what you meant to say, or did you mean to say that the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago are not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago?

    As it stands, you are saying that the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago went away and then came back.

    No, you’re just simple minded. What he’s saying is that Britain was originally inhabited by Western Hunter Gatherers, who were replaced by a hybrid people who were 75% Eastern Hunter Gatherer/40% Western Hunter Gatherer. Today British people are about 50% Western Hunter Gatherer, ~35% Neolithic Farmer and ~17% Eastern Hunter Gatherer. The autosomal ancestry of Western Europe has been shifting towards WHG/ENF for the last 4000 years.

    • Troll: HammerJack
    • Replies: @anon
    is evident that you know nothing about genetics and the migratory movements of the bronze age.

    there is so much wrong that i dont know where to start

    british and the rest of north europeans are 25-40% ehg +10-15% chg what you are refering with that 17% is to ancestral north eurasians that was only part of the ancestry of yamnaya or proto corded ware like we know now

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .

    to not complicate things any further europeans are genetically the same as we were 4000 years ago after yamnaya (aryans )conquered all europe

    https://imgur.com/a/H9EIeCP

    ancestry of europeans by primordial groups
  6. I wonder about this too. My father’s family comes from north Spain. One of his surnames on his father’s side is related to those who fought back the Moors in the 700s. I’ve always wondered what would happen if we dig up those graves and we test the cousins who still live in Asturias.

  7. “pesky grave-robbing laws.”

    Pretty sure if Prof Reich digs up an actual marked grave he’d put everything back aside from the little bit of marrow or whatever he tests.

    And graves get moved all the time to suit the land use needs of the living.

    If Charles II can dig up the graves and hang the skeletons of the MPs who signed the death warrant of Charles I, for no reason than spite, Reich should be able to respectfully crack open a long-disused femur bone to access its precious DNA to Advance Science.

    It also might make some sense to clone Issac Newton.

    • Replies: @Realist

    It also might make some sense to clone Issac Newton.
     
    Why so he could develop the law of gravity again...or continue his work in Alchemy?
    , @Uncle Remus
    On the contrary, Lot. The regicides who collaborated in the death of Charles I were murderers, and more than murderers, killing the anointed king and head of state, an offense against the res publica
    and good estate of the people of his three kingdoms. Charles II rightfully punished them, not for
    "spite" but for justice.
  8. @Glaivester
    the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago are pretty different from the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago, but not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago.

    Is that what you meant to say, or did you mean to say that the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago are not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago?

    As it stands, you are saying that the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago went away and then came back.

    What Steve means to say is William the Conqueror dindu nuttin.

  9. @Glaivester
    the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago are pretty different from the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago, but not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago.

    Is that what you meant to say, or did you mean to say that the people who lived in Britain 4000 years ago are not too different from the people who lived in Britain 100 years ago?

    As it stands, you are saying that the people who lived in Britain 5000 years ago went away and then came back.

    Thanks, I’ll fix it.

  10. O/T

    Here we go again, and again, again, again, again, again, again, again

    Tonnes of crops left to rot as farms struggle to recruit EU workers

    The National Farmers’ Union found there was an overall 18% shortfall in the number of agricultural workers in August, even though businesses had tried to head off difficulties by recruiting up to 25% more people than usual.

    wat

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers/ar-AAIDLM3

    • Replies: @newrouter
    All my green tomatoes here in w PA in October will be "rotting the fields". We need more wetbacks!
    , @Alden
    What a crock! What next, no Christmas trees because of immigrant labor shortage?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Why can't they just borrow some equipment from Bob the Builder?


    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/22/285x214/263594_1.jpg
  11. @SunBakedSuburb
    "there are those pesky grave-robbing laws"

    I wasn't aware of those laws.

    Neither was I. Uh, changing the subject, want to buy a diamond ring?

    • LOL: Bubba, Redneck farmer
  12. I’ve always found it obscene that DNA characterization of human remains is not done as a prerequisite for invoking laws pertaining to kinship-based authority over remains. NAGPRA is downright silly in this regard and may be considered a denial of due process.

    Another thing I find obscene is the way custody of Ötzi’s remains were given to a person who answered the question of his DNA relationship to modern populations by saying, in effect, that since he lived so many generations ago, you can invoke exponentiation to claim everyone on earth is descended from him.

    Boas, burn in Hell.

  13. @216
    O/T

    Here we go again, and again, again, again, again, again, again, again

    Tonnes of crops left to rot as farms struggle to recruit EU workers
     

    The National Farmers’ Union found there was an overall 18% shortfall in the number of agricultural workers in August, even though businesses had tried to head off difficulties by recruiting up to 25% more people than usual.
     
    wat

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers/ar-AAIDLM3

    All my green tomatoes here in w PA in October will be “rotting the fields”. We need more wetbacks!

  14. I don’t think certain people want to find out the truth, to be honest.

  15. @216
    O/T

    Here we go again, and again, again, again, again, again, again, again

    Tonnes of crops left to rot as farms struggle to recruit EU workers
     

    The National Farmers’ Union found there was an overall 18% shortfall in the number of agricultural workers in August, even though businesses had tried to head off difficulties by recruiting up to 25% more people than usual.
     
    wat

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers/ar-AAIDLM3

    What a crock! What next, no Christmas trees because of immigrant labor shortage?

  16. So, I just watched Midsommar, written and directed by Ari Aster. Has anything been written interpreting this film as a grotesque, vengeful takedown of “Aryan” culture? I was reminded of your column about Sacha Baron Cohen’s entire career being essentially one, long exercise in Jewish revenge. Midsommar was sort of like Borat, done as arthouse horror.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    I've seen the trailer of Midsommar, what you write makes this one rather clear now for me. Self-hate is a - distorted - way of self-reflection and such distorted movies like that the zeitgeisty version of tradition. Reminds me of borderliners who cut themselves in order to feel something. The method works, but produces - see Midsommar - nasty results.
    Ah - the film is shown in the explicitly left-leaning communal cinema in Konstanz. - It amazes me, just how precise all parts of such stories oftentimes fit together.
    , @J.Ross
    It is that and so are the two interchangeable movies from the same studio that preceded it:
    Witch: Colonial Americans are so disgusting that it would be justice for Salem witches to be real and to win in the end!
    Hereditary: Upper Middle Class modern Americans are so disgusting and creepy!
    Midsommar: Scandinavians are backward and evil!
    The irony is that there are modern violent witchcraft practitioners, but they're black, so A24 will never make a movie about them.
    There is a certain theory, absurd on its face but borne out in every example, that a lot of the art of the entertainment world is a certain group using entertainment resources to get the last laugh, long after everyone has forgotten the discussion. For example, the South Park "Minorities in my Waterpark" episode is really a retconning of a real-life Jewish community center pool that panicked when a gaggle of non-member black people decided to pay a surprise visit. In the episode, all racism is concentrated on a gentile anti-Semitic clown figure, the waterpark is public, and the monorities have every right to be there. Similarly, the real inspiration for Midsommar could be the alternative media outrage at one of Sweden's Jewish cultural leaders claiming that the "refugees" had beautiful and authentic cultures, whereas ridiculous Swedes had "nonsense like Midsommar."
  17. I’m getting Gregory Clark mixed up with Greg Cochran. The first question that headline brought to mind was, how are you going to test 5,000-year-old homos for viruses?

  18. @216
    O/T

    Here we go again, and again, again, again, again, again, again, again

    Tonnes of crops left to rot as farms struggle to recruit EU workers
     

    The National Farmers’ Union found there was an overall 18% shortfall in the number of agricultural workers in August, even though businesses had tried to head off difficulties by recruiting up to 25% more people than usual.
     
    wat

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers/ar-AAIDLM3

    Why can’t they just borrow some equipment from Bob the Builder?

    • Replies: @Sean
    The construction equipment is all busy The EU freedom of movement construction workers have virtually eliminated indigenous builders, especially in the overheated South East. Those Poles are not going anywhere.

    While there are a lot of farm people, the thing thing is they soon find better jobs and almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer. So there needs to be a constant inflow. Which means constant pressure on indigenous wages. There might be a million Poles in the London area alone, multi generational families with granny graduates working as cleaners.
  19. @JimDandy
    So, I just watched Midsommar, written and directed by Ari Aster. Has anything been written interpreting this film as a grotesque, vengeful takedown of "Aryan" culture? I was reminded of your column about Sacha Baron Cohen's entire career being essentially one, long exercise in Jewish revenge. Midsommar was sort of like Borat, done as arthouse horror.

    I’ve seen the trailer of Midsommar, what you write makes this one rather clear now for me. Self-hate is a – distorted – way of self-reflection and such distorted movies like that the zeitgeisty version of tradition. Reminds me of borderliners who cut themselves in order to feel something. The method works, but produces – see Midsommar – nasty results.
    Ah – the film is shown in the explicitly left-leaning communal cinema in Konstanz. – It amazes me, just how precise all parts of such stories oftentimes fit together.

    • Replies: @Logan
    Haven't seen the movie, but have read a couple of reviews. Not planning to see it, not my thing at all.

    Never did get into horror as a genre.

    But I think you're making a critical categorical error here. I've tried to explain this several times before and have made a hash of it, but bear with me if you have the patience.

    These people do NOT hate themselves. In fact, it is blindingly obvious, at least to me, that few people in history have ever had a higher opinion of themselves and those they see as their in-group.

    A very strange dynamic is going on, however. Clearly, they DO hate and despise others that outsiders might see as part of their in-group. As seen in all the white people running around verbally attacking and denouncing other white people for their whiteness.

    But they implicitly exclude themselves and those with their same attitudes, from that hate and contempt by the very fact that they denounce other white people. If you demonstrate enough hatred for "white people," you as a white person acquire a get-out-of-jail-free card for you whiteness.

    And you can run around taking immense pride in your possession of that card, building up immense self-esteem in the process.
    , @JimDandy
    Ari Aster--a Jewish man from New York City--is the man who wrote and directed this film about some young Americans who travel to Sweden to find that despite the peaceful and wholesome veneer, the most Aryan-looking people on the planet are disgusting, sinister weirdos who murder black people, engage in pseudo-eugenics, etc.

    Wiki: 'According to Aster, he had been approached by B-Reel executives to helm a slasher film set in Sweden, an idea which he initially rejected as he felt he "had no way into the story."'

    Well, he found a way into the story.
  20. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton
    No, you're just simple minded. What he's saying is that Britain was originally inhabited by Western Hunter Gatherers, who were replaced by a hybrid people who were 75% Eastern Hunter Gatherer/40% Western Hunter Gatherer. Today British people are about 50% Western Hunter Gatherer, ~35% Neolithic Farmer and ~17% Eastern Hunter Gatherer. The autosomal ancestry of Western Europe has been shifting towards WHG/ENF for the last 4000 years.

    is evident that you know nothing about genetics and the migratory movements of the bronze age.

    there is so much wrong that i dont know where to start

    british and the rest of north europeans are 25-40% ehg +10-15% chg what you are refering with that 17% is to ancestral north eurasians that was only part of the ancestry of yamnaya or proto corded ware like we know now

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .

    to not complicate things any further europeans are genetically the same as we were 4000 years ago after yamnaya (aryans )conquered all europe

    View post on imgur.com

    ancestry of europeans by primordial groups

    • LOL: Sam Coulton
    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    "Ancestral North Eurasian" is a catchall for "primarily Eastern Hunter Gatherer". The only person here who knows nothing is you: the largest components in the British population are by far Early Neolithic Farmer and Western Hunter gatherer.

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .
     
    Laughable. The previous inhabitants of Britain were Y-haplogroup C Western Hunter Gatherers like Cheddar Man not "Anatolian farmers". Contrary to your fucktard claims, the ancestry of Western Europeans has shifted away from Eastern Hunter Gatherers, and the majority of Europeans are today largely Western Hunter Gatherer (WHG) and Neolithic Farmer (ENF). A stark contrast to the Bronze Age, when most Europeans were ~50-80% EHG.


    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1539631045141.jpg


    Also, your misuse of the catchall "Yamnaya" reveals that you know fuckall, as it has always been "Yamnaya-like" due to the problem of virtually no Western European (and indeed, most eastern Eueopeans) carrying the R1b-Z2103 haplogroup of the Yamnaya men. Yamnaya was not the source of the Steppe ancestry in modern Eueopeans, and especially not the Y-DNA haplogroups R1b or R1a. You'll want to read this article when you get through punching holes in the sheetrock of the abandoned toolshed you live in.


    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/is-yamnaya-overrated.html
  21. Anonymous[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Basically, ‘public’ cemeteries did not exist in England prior to the 1830s, and the dead were almost exclusively buried in churchyards.
    Having, of course, limited space, and after many many centuries of constant use, the invariable practice was to ‘reuse’ old graves by pushing older remains under newly dug graves, the remains being disarticulated bones. For this reason the churchyard of a typical ancient English church is around some six feet higher in elevation than the surrounding ground.

  22. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:

    beal beaker that conquered britain 4000 yearago are very similar to native british peopple and identical to north east europeans IDENTICAL

    View post on imgur.com

    also as you can see finno ugrics people are very similar to yamnaya or the original aryans that lived in the eastern european steppe bordering the baltics .

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    I almost forgot to mention: this retard called the Yamnaya "original Aryans". Yamnaya weren't Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.
  23. David Reich’s contention that the past was a flurry of migrations and invasions

    Much like the “solutions” for “climate change” that seem reasonable, even self-evident, to people who never wander away from the concrete-and-criminal hellpits that are modren ‘Murican cities, the notion of endless migration and constant population churn in our pedestrian past seems perfectly feasible to people whose longest “trek” in the last 30 years is from the couch to the refrigerator and back again.

  24. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @anon
    is evident that you know nothing about genetics and the migratory movements of the bronze age.

    there is so much wrong that i dont know where to start

    british and the rest of north europeans are 25-40% ehg +10-15% chg what you are refering with that 17% is to ancestral north eurasians that was only part of the ancestry of yamnaya or proto corded ware like we know now

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .

    to not complicate things any further europeans are genetically the same as we were 4000 years ago after yamnaya (aryans )conquered all europe

    https://imgur.com/a/H9EIeCP

    ancestry of europeans by primordial groups

    “Ancestral North Eurasian” is a catchall for “primarily Eastern Hunter Gatherer”. The only person here who knows nothing is you: the largest components in the British population are by far Early Neolithic Farmer and Western Hunter gatherer.

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .

    Laughable. The previous inhabitants of Britain were Y-haplogroup C Western Hunter Gatherers like Cheddar Man not “Anatolian farmers”. Contrary to your fucktard claims, the ancestry of Western Europeans has shifted away from Eastern Hunter Gatherers, and the majority of Europeans are today largely Western Hunter Gatherer (WHG) and Neolithic Farmer (ENF). A stark contrast to the Bronze Age, when most Europeans were ~50-80% EHG.

    Also, your misuse of the catchall “Yamnaya” reveals that you know fuckall, as it has always been “Yamnaya-like” due to the problem of virtually no Western European (and indeed, most eastern Eueopeans) carrying the R1b-Z2103 haplogroup of the Yamnaya men. Yamnaya was not the source of the Steppe ancestry in modern Eueopeans, and especially not the Y-DNA haplogroups R1b or R1a. You’ll want to read this article when you get through punching holes in the sheetrock of the abandoned toolshed you live in.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/is-yamnaya-overrated.html

    • Replies: @anon
    you seem to be reading a lot of genetic articles without understanding any of them

    - ancestral north north eurarians is not ehg ,ehg is the mix of ancestral north eurasians and whg, big difference
    -when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca

    -that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
    - neholitic europe before the bronze age invasion cluster closely with neholitic farmers as you can in the pca made by davidsky ( the guy from euroegenes you link) while modern european cluster much closely with eastern hunter gatherer and yamnaya or steppe kurgan like ancestry, all the grey point in the left part of the pca are modern europeans .
    https://imgur.com/a/CsDl4We

    -i know perfectly is a yamnaya type ancestry, autosomally identicall but with a different linage i was speaking in known term to not confuse and derail any longer the post.


    incredible that you have been able to supere the stupidy of your first post
  25. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @anon
    beal beaker that conquered britain 4000 yearago are very similar to native british peopple and identical to north east europeans IDENTICAL
    https://imgur.com/a/MAWxXCN

    also as you can see finno ugrics people are very similar to yamnaya or the original aryans that lived in the eastern european steppe bordering the baltics .

    I almost forgot to mention: this retard called the Yamnaya “original Aryans”. Yamnaya weren’t Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.

    • Replies: @Logan
    Yamnaya weren’t Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.

    Ahh, the pleasures and perils of taxonomy!

    Yamnaya, Sintashta and Andronovo are not endonyms, not what these people called themselves. (We don't have a clue what those terms might have been, and anyway it's unlikely that all the people we put in these groups saw themselves as "a people.") They are entirely artificial terms created by modern archaeologists and linguists to describe various groups we deduce existed in the past.

    Until the mid-20th century "Aryan" was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as "Indo-European." That switch was made not because the usage was "incorrect," whatever that means in a context where all terms are artificial. They were made for entirely political and ideological reasons. The Nazis used Aryan to refer to all Indo-Europeans, therefore the term was forever tainted, even though it was widely used long before a Nazi existed. (Same is true for the swastika, BTW, an ancient symbol used in many if not most cultures pretty much as far back as we have any evidence.)

    As Wiki puts it, "The atrocities committed in the name of this racial ideology have led academics to avoid the term "Aryan", which has been replaced, in most cases, by "Indo-Iranian"."

    IOW, his usage of the term was politically incorrect, but not necessarily ill-informed. (Though that may also have been the case.)
  26. In modern Britain, I guess Leave voters are the improvished day labourers which the prosperous Remain bourgeoisie want to see die out, but are frustrated by those pesky laws against democracy-robbing.

  27. @Reg Cæsar
    Why can't they just borrow some equipment from Bob the Builder?


    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/22/285x214/263594_1.jpg

    The construction equipment is all busy The EU freedom of movement construction workers have virtually eliminated indigenous builders, especially in the overheated South East. Those Poles are not going anywhere.

    While there are a lot of farm people, the thing thing is they soon find better jobs and almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer. So there needs to be a constant inflow. Which means constant pressure on indigenous wages. There might be a million Poles in the London area alone, multi generational families with granny graduates working as cleaners.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    All I can say is, if your biggest problem is Poles, you're in a far better position than the rest of the Anglosphere.
    , @216
    https://www.ft.com/content/5212906c-ebf4-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

    Can ex-prisoners help fill the UK’s labour shortage?

    Employers are becoming more open to hiring offenders but obstacles remain
     
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer"

    Not many agricultural labourers around, arable farming these days involves ploughing by satellite location, sometimes at night, seeding and spraying likewise, harvesting too. Mostly contractors these days, quite a few EE employees.

    The only 'real' hard labouring jobs are fruit and veg picking - a day picking strawberries might be hard on the back but pales against picking onions or sprouts from cold and sodden fields. A lot of it done by various swarthy types, immigration status unknown, recruited in the cities by 'gangmasters' and bused out into the country. Surprised they don't all get pneumonia.

    This may be gone one day, there are more and more Dutch-style giant greenhouse complexes with peppers, lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers grown hydroponically under computer-controlled conditions - they never touch any soil.
  28. @Lot
    “pesky grave-robbing laws.”

    Pretty sure if Prof Reich digs up an actual marked grave he’d put everything back aside from the little bit of marrow or whatever he tests.

    And graves get moved all the time to suit the land use needs of the living.

    If Charles II can dig up the graves and hang the skeletons of the MPs who signed the death warrant of Charles I, for no reason than spite, Reich should be able to respectfully crack open a long-disused femur bone to access its precious DNA to Advance Science.

    It also might make some sense to clone Issac Newton.

    It also might make some sense to clone Issac Newton.

    Why so he could develop the law of gravity again…or continue his work in Alchemy?

  29. @Lot
    “pesky grave-robbing laws.”

    Pretty sure if Prof Reich digs up an actual marked grave he’d put everything back aside from the little bit of marrow or whatever he tests.

    And graves get moved all the time to suit the land use needs of the living.

    If Charles II can dig up the graves and hang the skeletons of the MPs who signed the death warrant of Charles I, for no reason than spite, Reich should be able to respectfully crack open a long-disused femur bone to access its precious DNA to Advance Science.

    It also might make some sense to clone Issac Newton.

    On the contrary, Lot. The regicides who collaborated in the death of Charles I were murderers, and more than murderers, killing the anointed king and head of state, an offense against the res publica
    and good estate of the people of his three kingdoms. Charles II rightfully punished them, not for
    “spite” but for justice.

    • Replies: @Lot
    It wasn’t regicide because Charles ceased being a lawful monarch when he made war on his people, including even conspiring with foreign princes to bring foreign mercenaries to kill Englishmen.

    Abusing a bunch of skeletons and hanging them... that’s an act of a spiteful degenerate retard. And a waste of money.

    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Oliver-Cromwell-by-Samuel-010.jpg
    , @Malcolm Y
    Not getting into who's right or wrong but. I used to think that hanging Cromwell's remains from London Bridge et al or nailing his skull to a post or reburying his body under a crossroad was just silly. However, now I think that it was piece of propaganda that says if you strike the king, the next king will hunt you down even into the grave to exact revenge.
  30. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:

    Just out of sheer morbid curiosity, I would like to see the DNA of the notorious Jonathan Wild tested and his closest modern relations ascertained.
    Jonathan Wild – one of the biggest crooks in British history and self styled ‘thief taker general’ was hanged in the 1720s. His skeleton still hangs to this day in the famous ‘Hunterian’ collection of the Royal College of Surgeons.

  31. @Sean
    The construction equipment is all busy The EU freedom of movement construction workers have virtually eliminated indigenous builders, especially in the overheated South East. Those Poles are not going anywhere.

    While there are a lot of farm people, the thing thing is they soon find better jobs and almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer. So there needs to be a constant inflow. Which means constant pressure on indigenous wages. There might be a million Poles in the London area alone, multi generational families with granny graduates working as cleaners.

    All I can say is, if your biggest problem is Poles, you’re in a far better position than the rest of the Anglosphere.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Sadly, people only seem to be really energised against something if it hits them in their wallet.
  32. @Dieter Kief
    I've seen the trailer of Midsommar, what you write makes this one rather clear now for me. Self-hate is a - distorted - way of self-reflection and such distorted movies like that the zeitgeisty version of tradition. Reminds me of borderliners who cut themselves in order to feel something. The method works, but produces - see Midsommar - nasty results.
    Ah - the film is shown in the explicitly left-leaning communal cinema in Konstanz. - It amazes me, just how precise all parts of such stories oftentimes fit together.

    Haven’t seen the movie, but have read a couple of reviews. Not planning to see it, not my thing at all.

    Never did get into horror as a genre.

    But I think you’re making a critical categorical error here. I’ve tried to explain this several times before and have made a hash of it, but bear with me if you have the patience.

    These people do NOT hate themselves. In fact, it is blindingly obvious, at least to me, that few people in history have ever had a higher opinion of themselves and those they see as their in-group.

    A very strange dynamic is going on, however. Clearly, they DO hate and despise others that outsiders might see as part of their in-group. As seen in all the white people running around verbally attacking and denouncing other white people for their whiteness.

    But they implicitly exclude themselves and those with their same attitudes, from that hate and contempt by the very fact that they denounce other white people. If you demonstrate enough hatred for “white people,” you as a white person acquire a get-out-of-jail-free card for you whiteness.

    And you can run around taking immense pride in your possession of that card, building up immense self-esteem in the process.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    I see your point, but


    - - -

    - - - - it might well be, that it goes along quite nicely with my observations. Maybe it all depends on how deep you dig into the phenomenon here. What we both agree upon - in hating whites, they do hate the very group they obviously belong to. From this aspect on, I see no problem to go on just like you did: But they implicitly exclude themselves and those with their same attitudes, from that hate and contempt by the very fact that they denounce other white people. If you demonstrate enough hatred for “white people,” you as a white person acquire a get-out-of-jail-free card for you whiteness.

    That's right, what they do makes sense for them -and pays off. But that's no different from any borderliner who makes those deep cuts into her (it's mostly a she) own - flesh, really, it is not the skin alone, oftentimes they do cut deep. A real mess and ugly and literally insane - just not for them!
  33. @Sam Coulton
    I almost forgot to mention: this retard called the Yamnaya "original Aryans". Yamnaya weren't Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.

    Yamnaya weren’t Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.

    Ahh, the pleasures and perils of taxonomy!

    Yamnaya, Sintashta and Andronovo are not endonyms, not what these people called themselves. (We don’t have a clue what those terms might have been, and anyway it’s unlikely that all the people we put in these groups saw themselves as “a people.”) They are entirely artificial terms created by modern archaeologists and linguists to describe various groups we deduce existed in the past.

    Until the mid-20th century “Aryan” was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as “Indo-European.” That switch was made not because the usage was “incorrect,” whatever that means in a context where all terms are artificial. They were made for entirely political and ideological reasons. The Nazis used Aryan to refer to all Indo-Europeans, therefore the term was forever tainted, even though it was widely used long before a Nazi existed. (Same is true for the swastika, BTW, an ancient symbol used in many if not most cultures pretty much as far back as we have any evidence.)

    As Wiki puts it, “The atrocities committed in the name of this racial ideology have led academics to avoid the term “Aryan”, which has been replaced, in most cases, by “Indo-Iranian”.”

    IOW, his usage of the term was politically incorrect, but not necessarily ill-informed. (Though that may also have been the case.)

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Until the mid-20th century “Aryan” was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as “Indo-European.” That switch was made not because the usage was “incorrect,”
     
    Yes, it patently was, because Aryan is an Indo-Iranian word. The Indo Iranian laguages formed after Yamnaya, and indeed, after the predecessors of the Aryans (Corded Ware) would go on to exterminate or otherwize displace the Yamnaya. There is no "Aryan" word in non-Iranian Indo European langauges. Nobody in their right minds uses Aryan to describe Yamnaya and your Wiki quote has nothing to do with this discussion.
  34. @Sean
    The construction equipment is all busy The EU freedom of movement construction workers have virtually eliminated indigenous builders, especially in the overheated South East. Those Poles are not going anywhere.

    While there are a lot of farm people, the thing thing is they soon find better jobs and almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer. So there needs to be a constant inflow. Which means constant pressure on indigenous wages. There might be a million Poles in the London area alone, multi generational families with granny graduates working as cleaners.

    https://www.ft.com/content/5212906c-ebf4-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

    Can ex-prisoners help fill the UK’s labour shortage?

    Employers are becoming more open to hiring offenders but obstacles remain

    • Replies: @Sean
    They can get a Pole in his 20s instead of a woman, or a someone who has medical problems. No one British is considered with gaps in their work history. But they don't care that Poles new to Britain have uncheckable CVs and quite possibly a criminal record in their homeland. They keep wages from rising, so too many is never enough as far as employers are concerned.
  35. One of the basic anthropological questions is what kind of family structure does a culture have: e.g., do the husbands move in with their wives’ families or do the wives move in with their husbands’ families?

    The Dutch surname Schermerhorn is generally pronounced “skimmer-horn” in the US by descendants of the colonists. But a minority pronounce it the German way.

    Researching this for one of the latter families, I learned that in those cases, a Schermerhorn boy had married a German girl way back when, usually in the Mohawk Valley, and moved in with her relatives. They, of course, got their way over time.

  36. How is “late Neolithic” defined. In this paper I argue that it was characterized by the first human conquests, in which one tribe subdued another and reduced them to servitude, but before complex states with writing (the so-called Urban Revolution) was fully in place. The latter were always characterized by patriarchal institutions, of which patrilocal residence was a feature. But in the early Neolithic based on contemporary examples matrilocal residence was much more common as was matrilineal descent (not to be confused with matriarchy, which never was; cf. Iroquois). This only stands to reason given that at that point women were not only supplying most of the food (they were the gardeners before the invention of the plow and animal power) but also cooking it, doing the weaving and basketry, in charge of pottery, and of course childcare.

    Anyway here is the argument. Don’t be put off by the title:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/10q-cx2v05UnAsHb9BaRBZqYtPljiMZ52h6UxvHj0duA/edit?usp=sharing

  37. How is “late Neolithic” defined? In this paper I argue that it was characterized by the first human conquests, in which one tribe subdued another and reduced them to servitude, but before complex states with writing (the so-called Urban Revolution) was fully in place. The latter was always characterized by patriarchal institutions, of which patrilocal residence was a feature.

    But in the early Neolithic, based on contemporary examples, matrilocal residence was much more common as was matrilineal descent (not to be confused with matriarchy by the way, which never was; cf. to the Iroquois). This only stands to reason given that at that point women were not only supplying most of the food (they were the gardeners after all) but also were in charge of cooking, weaving, basketry, pottery, and of course childcare.

    Anyway here is the argument. Don’t be put off by the title:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/10q-cx2v05UnAsHb9BaRBZqYtPljiMZ52h6UxvHj0duA/edit?usp=sharing

  38. @SunBakedSuburb
    "there are those pesky grave-robbing laws"

    I wasn't aware of those laws.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse, you know.

  39. OT

    I find most Internet commentary boring because it consists of bloviating about political doings. I wish someone (Steve?) would make a list of interesting Internet commenters writing on a regular basis on general subjects. Steve’s pieces are based on his uncanny ability to notice the significant detail. There is an entertaining book by a Danish-born market consultant Small Data who earns a good living by noticing significant details that reflect otherwise unnoticed indices of human intentions. He points them out to his clients thanks to which much consumer crap was successfully peddled.

    John Derbyshire’s writings fall into the category I’m looking for.

    Please someone make a list.

  40. anon[592] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton
    "Ancestral North Eurasian" is a catchall for "primarily Eastern Hunter Gatherer". The only person here who knows nothing is you: the largest components in the British population are by far Early Neolithic Farmer and Western Hunter gatherer.

    the previous inhabitants were anatolian farmer rich not western hunter gatherer

    all the contrary the autosomal ancestry of europe have shifted to yamnaya (ehg+chg)not to whg/enf

    everything you have said is partially wrong or terribly wrong .
     
    Laughable. The previous inhabitants of Britain were Y-haplogroup C Western Hunter Gatherers like Cheddar Man not "Anatolian farmers". Contrary to your fucktard claims, the ancestry of Western Europeans has shifted away from Eastern Hunter Gatherers, and the majority of Europeans are today largely Western Hunter Gatherer (WHG) and Neolithic Farmer (ENF). A stark contrast to the Bronze Age, when most Europeans were ~50-80% EHG.


    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1539631045141.jpg


    Also, your misuse of the catchall "Yamnaya" reveals that you know fuckall, as it has always been "Yamnaya-like" due to the problem of virtually no Western European (and indeed, most eastern Eueopeans) carrying the R1b-Z2103 haplogroup of the Yamnaya men. Yamnaya was not the source of the Steppe ancestry in modern Eueopeans, and especially not the Y-DNA haplogroups R1b or R1a. You'll want to read this article when you get through punching holes in the sheetrock of the abandoned toolshed you live in.


    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/is-yamnaya-overrated.html

    you seem to be reading a lot of genetic articles without understanding any of them

    – ancestral north north eurarians is not ehg ,ehg is the mix of ancestral north eurasians and whg, big difference
    -when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca

    -that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
    – neholitic europe before the bronze age invasion cluster closely with neholitic farmers as you can in the pca made by davidsky ( the guy from euroegenes you link) while modern european cluster much closely with eastern hunter gatherer and yamnaya or steppe kurgan like ancestry, all the grey point in the left part of the pca are modern europeans .

    View post on imgur.com

    -i know perfectly is a yamnaya type ancestry, autosomally identicall but with a different linage i was speaking in known term to not confuse and derail any longer the post.

    incredible that you have been able to supere the stupidy of your first post

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca
     
    Not the British Isles, idiot. Much of Spain was also not "neolitized" genetically.

    that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
     
    2015 isn't "old", you indignant child. Cite a single source that says my chart was inaccurate. There are other charts from as recently as 2019 which show basically the same thing: ENF ancestry is the largest component in western Europeans and East Euro steppe migrant ancestry is very much a minority component. Your claim that Europeans are shiftinv toward EHG/CHG steppe ancestry is not corrobirated by anyone in academia.
  41. @Logan
    Haven't seen the movie, but have read a couple of reviews. Not planning to see it, not my thing at all.

    Never did get into horror as a genre.

    But I think you're making a critical categorical error here. I've tried to explain this several times before and have made a hash of it, but bear with me if you have the patience.

    These people do NOT hate themselves. In fact, it is blindingly obvious, at least to me, that few people in history have ever had a higher opinion of themselves and those they see as their in-group.

    A very strange dynamic is going on, however. Clearly, they DO hate and despise others that outsiders might see as part of their in-group. As seen in all the white people running around verbally attacking and denouncing other white people for their whiteness.

    But they implicitly exclude themselves and those with their same attitudes, from that hate and contempt by the very fact that they denounce other white people. If you demonstrate enough hatred for "white people," you as a white person acquire a get-out-of-jail-free card for you whiteness.

    And you can run around taking immense pride in your possession of that card, building up immense self-esteem in the process.

    I see your point, but

    – – –

    – – – – it might well be, that it goes along quite nicely with my observations. Maybe it all depends on how deep you dig into the phenomenon here. What we both agree upon – in hating whites, they do hate the very group they obviously belong to. From this aspect on, I see no problem to go on just like you did: But they implicitly exclude themselves and those with their same attitudes, from that hate and contempt by the very fact that they denounce other white people. If you demonstrate enough hatred for “white people,” you as a white person acquire a get-out-of-jail-free card for you whiteness.

    That’s right, what they do makes sense for them -and pays off. But that’s no different from any borderliner who makes those deep cuts into her (it’s mostly a she) own – flesh, really, it is not the skin alone, oftentimes they do cut deep. A real mess and ugly and literally insane – just not for them!

  42. @Sean
    The construction equipment is all busy The EU freedom of movement construction workers have virtually eliminated indigenous builders, especially in the overheated South East. Those Poles are not going anywhere.

    While there are a lot of farm people, the thing thing is they soon find better jobs and almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer. So there needs to be a constant inflow. Which means constant pressure on indigenous wages. There might be a million Poles in the London area alone, multi generational families with granny graduates working as cleaners.

    “almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer”

    Not many agricultural labourers around, arable farming these days involves ploughing by satellite location, sometimes at night, seeding and spraying likewise, harvesting too. Mostly contractors these days, quite a few EE employees.

    The only ‘real’ hard labouring jobs are fruit and veg picking – a day picking strawberries might be hard on the back but pales against picking onions or sprouts from cold and sodden fields. A lot of it done by various swarthy types, immigration status unknown, recruited in the cities by ‘gangmasters’ and bused out into the country. Surprised they don’t all get pneumonia.

    This may be gone one day, there are more and more Dutch-style giant greenhouse complexes with peppers, lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers grown hydroponically under computer-controlled conditions – they never touch any soil.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Yes that sounds right, and it's a good thing because Britain is an an advanced economy or it is nothing. Dairy farming in Britain will certainly not be able to compete with economies of scale in New Zealand so it will be subsidised or disappear. As for fruit picking, well if they cannot better organise and mechanise it would be better done in other countries. I mean, the taste of commercial fruit grown in Scotland is often criminal, but it only exists in the unsuitable climate because of cheap foreign labour.
  43. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @Logan
    Yamnaya weren’t Indo Iranian, and therefore not Aryan. Sintashta and Andronovo were the original Aryans.

    Ahh, the pleasures and perils of taxonomy!

    Yamnaya, Sintashta and Andronovo are not endonyms, not what these people called themselves. (We don't have a clue what those terms might have been, and anyway it's unlikely that all the people we put in these groups saw themselves as "a people.") They are entirely artificial terms created by modern archaeologists and linguists to describe various groups we deduce existed in the past.

    Until the mid-20th century "Aryan" was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as "Indo-European." That switch was made not because the usage was "incorrect," whatever that means in a context where all terms are artificial. They were made for entirely political and ideological reasons. The Nazis used Aryan to refer to all Indo-Europeans, therefore the term was forever tainted, even though it was widely used long before a Nazi existed. (Same is true for the swastika, BTW, an ancient symbol used in many if not most cultures pretty much as far back as we have any evidence.)

    As Wiki puts it, "The atrocities committed in the name of this racial ideology have led academics to avoid the term "Aryan", which has been replaced, in most cases, by "Indo-Iranian"."

    IOW, his usage of the term was politically incorrect, but not necessarily ill-informed. (Though that may also have been the case.)

    Until the mid-20th century “Aryan” was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as “Indo-European.” That switch was made not because the usage was “incorrect,”

    Yes, it patently was, because Aryan is an Indo-Iranian word. The Indo Iranian laguages formed after Yamnaya, and indeed, after the predecessors of the Aryans (Corded Ware) would go on to exterminate or otherwize displace the Yamnaya. There is no “Aryan” word in non-Iranian Indo European langauges. Nobody in their right minds uses Aryan to describe Yamnaya and your Wiki quote has nothing to do with this discussion.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Why so belligerent? Logan made a perfectly sensible observation about usage and why there has been a change.
  44. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @anon
    you seem to be reading a lot of genetic articles without understanding any of them

    - ancestral north north eurarians is not ehg ,ehg is the mix of ancestral north eurasians and whg, big difference
    -when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca

    -that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
    - neholitic europe before the bronze age invasion cluster closely with neholitic farmers as you can in the pca made by davidsky ( the guy from euroegenes you link) while modern european cluster much closely with eastern hunter gatherer and yamnaya or steppe kurgan like ancestry, all the grey point in the left part of the pca are modern europeans .
    https://imgur.com/a/CsDl4We

    -i know perfectly is a yamnaya type ancestry, autosomally identicall but with a different linage i was speaking in known term to not confuse and derail any longer the post.


    incredible that you have been able to supere the stupidy of your first post

    when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca

    Not the British Isles, idiot. Much of Spain was also not “neolitized” genetically.

    that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.

    2015 isn’t “old”, you indignant child. Cite a single source that says my chart was inaccurate. There are other charts from as recently as 2019 which show basically the same thing: ENF ancestry is the largest component in western Europeans and East Euro steppe migrant ancestry is very much a minority component. Your claim that Europeans are shiftinv toward EHG/CHG steppe ancestry is not corrobirated by anyone in academia.

    • Replies: @anon
    retard the pic you have posted was made by the davidnsky in 2015 the same genetist that manage eurogenes and where the pca i posted came from.



    here is a peak of the haak study of the proportion of ancestry in the neholitic , 80-90% eneholitic farmer with a little of whg is only in the bronze age when yamnaya type ancestry (ehg+chg) came to spain ,italy,balcans ,hungary,england..... from eastern european steppe .

    https://imgur.com/a/3wk6KC4

    stay silent is evident that you dont know nothing at all
    , @anon
    is incredible how ignorant you are the image you have posted was made by davidnsky the same genetist of the pca i posted.

    before the bronze age conquer by steppe people europe was anatolian farmer and only a little whg
    admixed, only after 3000bc the steppe signal(ehg+chg) appear in europe

    from haak study published in nature

    https://imgur.com/a/LCQwiMf

    https://imgur.com/a/5wPIisN
  45. @Reg Cæsar
    All I can say is, if your biggest problem is Poles, you're in a far better position than the rest of the Anglosphere.

    Sadly, people only seem to be really energised against something if it hits them in their wallet.

  46. @Dieter Kief
    I've seen the trailer of Midsommar, what you write makes this one rather clear now for me. Self-hate is a - distorted - way of self-reflection and such distorted movies like that the zeitgeisty version of tradition. Reminds me of borderliners who cut themselves in order to feel something. The method works, but produces - see Midsommar - nasty results.
    Ah - the film is shown in the explicitly left-leaning communal cinema in Konstanz. - It amazes me, just how precise all parts of such stories oftentimes fit together.

    Ari Aster–a Jewish man from New York City–is the man who wrote and directed this film about some young Americans who travel to Sweden to find that despite the peaceful and wholesome veneer, the most Aryan-looking people on the planet are disgusting, sinister weirdos who murder black people, engage in pseudo-eugenics, etc.

    Wiki: ‘According to Aster, he had been approached by B-Reel executives to helm a slasher film set in Sweden, an idea which he initially rejected as he felt he “had no way into the story.”‘

    Well, he found a way into the story.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    - JimDandy - am I a bit paranoid or is it that some liberals had the idea to make a film to oppose (and cash in at the same time on) - - - Trump's critique of Sweden?
  47. Is it possible to recover mitochondrial DNA from ancient remains, or only regular DNA? It seems you could reconstruct a lot more information about population histories and relationships to current living humans by using both.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    Yes, it is possible to collect mitochondrial DNA from ancient remains. Infact, it is the easiest to acquire.
  48. @216
    https://www.ft.com/content/5212906c-ebf4-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

    Can ex-prisoners help fill the UK’s labour shortage?

    Employers are becoming more open to hiring offenders but obstacles remain
     

    They can get a Pole in his 20s instead of a woman, or a someone who has medical problems. No one British is considered with gaps in their work history. But they don’t care that Poles new to Britain have uncheckable CVs and quite possibly a criminal record in their homeland. They keep wages from rising, so too many is never enough as far as employers are concerned.

  49. Sam Coulton [AKA "S. M. Coulton"] says:
    @WowJustWow
    Is it possible to recover mitochondrial DNA from ancient remains, or only regular DNA? It seems you could reconstruct a lot more information about population histories and relationships to current living humans by using both.

    Yes, it is possible to collect mitochondrial DNA from ancient remains. Infact, it is the easiest to acquire.

  50. Some elite families today go further back than you can imagine — thousands of years. The ritual in eyes wide shut is an ancient ritural that predates classical Greece. Such families practice this ritual. I don’t know why. I think they think that sex with youths brings about longevity.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The blood of the young brings longevity (there's actually papers on this, and commercially available youthening products using human tissue), the sex rituals (not sex) are a way of magically sealing deals, the whole thing is open to newcomers off the street, and a lot of the old families are suffering punishing regression (witness the NXIVM Bronfmanns, Anderson Cooper, David Michael Rothschild, or Alex Soros).
    You'll cowards don't even filter water.
  51. @JimDandy
    So, I just watched Midsommar, written and directed by Ari Aster. Has anything been written interpreting this film as a grotesque, vengeful takedown of "Aryan" culture? I was reminded of your column about Sacha Baron Cohen's entire career being essentially one, long exercise in Jewish revenge. Midsommar was sort of like Borat, done as arthouse horror.

    It is that and so are the two interchangeable movies from the same studio that preceded it:
    Witch: Colonial Americans are so disgusting that it would be justice for Salem witches to be real and to win in the end!
    Hereditary: Upper Middle Class modern Americans are so disgusting and creepy!
    Midsommar: Scandinavians are backward and evil!
    The irony is that there are modern violent witchcraft practitioners, but they’re black, so A24 will never make a movie about them.
    There is a certain theory, absurd on its face but borne out in every example, that a lot of the art of the entertainment world is a certain group using entertainment resources to get the last laugh, long after everyone has forgotten the discussion. For example, the South Park “Minorities in my Waterpark” episode is really a retconning of a real-life Jewish community center pool that panicked when a gaggle of non-member black people decided to pay a surprise visit. In the episode, all racism is concentrated on a gentile anti-Semitic clown figure, the waterpark is public, and the monorities have every right to be there. Similarly, the real inspiration for Midsommar could be the alternative media outrage at one of Sweden’s Jewish cultural leaders claiming that the “refugees” had beautiful and authentic cultures, whereas ridiculous Swedes had “nonsense like Midsommar.”

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    Wow. Excellent post. On that last point, yes, I would bet on it.
  52. @Anon
    Some elite families today go further back than you can imagine -- thousands of years. The ritual in eyes wide shut is an ancient ritural that predates classical Greece. Such families practice this ritual. I don't know why. I think they think that sex with youths brings about longevity.

    The blood of the young brings longevity (there’s actually papers on this, and commercially available youthening products using human tissue), the sex rituals (not sex) are a way of magically sealing deals, the whole thing is open to newcomers off the street, and a lot of the old families are suffering punishing regression (witness the NXIVM Bronfmanns, Anderson Cooper, David Michael Rothschild, or Alex Soros).
    You’ll cowards don’t even filter water.

  53. @Uncle Remus
    On the contrary, Lot. The regicides who collaborated in the death of Charles I were murderers, and more than murderers, killing the anointed king and head of state, an offense against the res publica
    and good estate of the people of his three kingdoms. Charles II rightfully punished them, not for
    "spite" but for justice.

    It wasn’t regicide because Charles ceased being a lawful monarch when he made war on his people, including even conspiring with foreign princes to bring foreign mercenaries to kill Englishmen.

    Abusing a bunch of skeletons and hanging them… that’s an act of a spiteful degenerate retard. And a waste of money.

    • Replies: @BB753
    I don't know about you, but I'd rather be hanged post-mortem than alive.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    A lot cheaper than providing bread and circuses in the Colosseum!
  54. anon[592] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton

    when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca
     
    Not the British Isles, idiot. Much of Spain was also not "neolitized" genetically.

    that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
     
    2015 isn't "old", you indignant child. Cite a single source that says my chart was inaccurate. There are other charts from as recently as 2019 which show basically the same thing: ENF ancestry is the largest component in western Europeans and East Euro steppe migrant ancestry is very much a minority component. Your claim that Europeans are shiftinv toward EHG/CHG steppe ancestry is not corrobirated by anyone in academia.

    retard the pic you have posted was made by the davidnsky in 2015 the same genetist that manage eurogenes and where the pca i posted came from.

    here is a peak of the haak study of the proportion of ancestry in the neholitic , 80-90% eneholitic farmer with a little of whg is only in the bronze age when yamnaya type ancestry (ehg+chg) came to spain ,italy,balcans ,hungary,england….. from eastern european steppe .

    View post on imgur.com

    stay silent is evident that you dont know nothing at all

  55. I read a little about these homestead/farmstead graveyards. There seemed to be the high status owners, men and women, most of whose DNA could be localized to that area. There were low status people who they assumed were workers/servants/slaves who also had localized DNA then there were mysterious high status foreign women – high status because of the things buried with them. They took parts of the bodies of these foreign women and looked for the concentration of a certain chemical element, which I can’t remember, that varies with geographical location. They said that they came from an area around Czechoslovakia. So 4000 years were these guys doing booty calls for hot Czech women? Inquiring minds want to know.

  56. @Uncle Remus
    On the contrary, Lot. The regicides who collaborated in the death of Charles I were murderers, and more than murderers, killing the anointed king and head of state, an offense against the res publica
    and good estate of the people of his three kingdoms. Charles II rightfully punished them, not for
    "spite" but for justice.

    Not getting into who’s right or wrong but. I used to think that hanging Cromwell’s remains from London Bridge et al or nailing his skull to a post or reburying his body under a crossroad was just silly. However, now I think that it was piece of propaganda that says if you strike the king, the next king will hunt you down even into the grave to exact revenge.

  57. anon[592] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton

    when yamnaya entered in europe it was already neolitized and the mayory of ancestry of europe excluding eastern european region was eneholitic farmer with a little of whg only the male halogroup was a remnant of whg you as can look in any pca
     
    Not the British Isles, idiot. Much of Spain was also not "neolitized" genetically.

    that image is old is from 2015 when chg ancestry wasnt even knew and the dzuzuadna ancestry was erroneously atributed to whg when it was part of the common link with chg and the yamnaya type ancestry expansion.
     
    2015 isn't "old", you indignant child. Cite a single source that says my chart was inaccurate. There are other charts from as recently as 2019 which show basically the same thing: ENF ancestry is the largest component in western Europeans and East Euro steppe migrant ancestry is very much a minority component. Your claim that Europeans are shiftinv toward EHG/CHG steppe ancestry is not corrobirated by anyone in academia.

    is incredible how ignorant you are the image you have posted was made by davidnsky the same genetist of the pca i posted.

    before the bronze age conquer by steppe people europe was anatolian farmer and only a little whg
    admixed, only after 3000bc the steppe signal(ehg+chg) appear in europe

    from haak study published in nature

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

  58. @Lot
    It wasn’t regicide because Charles ceased being a lawful monarch when he made war on his people, including even conspiring with foreign princes to bring foreign mercenaries to kill Englishmen.

    Abusing a bunch of skeletons and hanging them... that’s an act of a spiteful degenerate retard. And a waste of money.

    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Oliver-Cromwell-by-Samuel-010.jpg

    I don’t know about you, but I’d rather be hanged post-mortem than alive.

  59. @YetAnotherAnon
    "almost anything is less hard work and bigger pay than being an agricultural labourer"

    Not many agricultural labourers around, arable farming these days involves ploughing by satellite location, sometimes at night, seeding and spraying likewise, harvesting too. Mostly contractors these days, quite a few EE employees.

    The only 'real' hard labouring jobs are fruit and veg picking - a day picking strawberries might be hard on the back but pales against picking onions or sprouts from cold and sodden fields. A lot of it done by various swarthy types, immigration status unknown, recruited in the cities by 'gangmasters' and bused out into the country. Surprised they don't all get pneumonia.

    This may be gone one day, there are more and more Dutch-style giant greenhouse complexes with peppers, lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers grown hydroponically under computer-controlled conditions - they never touch any soil.

    Yes that sounds right, and it’s a good thing because Britain is an an advanced economy or it is nothing. Dairy farming in Britain will certainly not be able to compete with economies of scale in New Zealand so it will be subsidised or disappear. As for fruit picking, well if they cannot better organise and mechanise it would be better done in other countries. I mean, the taste of commercial fruit grown in Scotland is often criminal, but it only exists in the unsuitable climate because of cheap foreign labour.

  60. @J.Ross
    It is that and so are the two interchangeable movies from the same studio that preceded it:
    Witch: Colonial Americans are so disgusting that it would be justice for Salem witches to be real and to win in the end!
    Hereditary: Upper Middle Class modern Americans are so disgusting and creepy!
    Midsommar: Scandinavians are backward and evil!
    The irony is that there are modern violent witchcraft practitioners, but they're black, so A24 will never make a movie about them.
    There is a certain theory, absurd on its face but borne out in every example, that a lot of the art of the entertainment world is a certain group using entertainment resources to get the last laugh, long after everyone has forgotten the discussion. For example, the South Park "Minorities in my Waterpark" episode is really a retconning of a real-life Jewish community center pool that panicked when a gaggle of non-member black people decided to pay a surprise visit. In the episode, all racism is concentrated on a gentile anti-Semitic clown figure, the waterpark is public, and the monorities have every right to be there. Similarly, the real inspiration for Midsommar could be the alternative media outrage at one of Sweden's Jewish cultural leaders claiming that the "refugees" had beautiful and authentic cultures, whereas ridiculous Swedes had "nonsense like Midsommar."

    Wow. Excellent post. On that last point, yes, I would bet on it.

  61. @JimDandy
    Ari Aster--a Jewish man from New York City--is the man who wrote and directed this film about some young Americans who travel to Sweden to find that despite the peaceful and wholesome veneer, the most Aryan-looking people on the planet are disgusting, sinister weirdos who murder black people, engage in pseudo-eugenics, etc.

    Wiki: 'According to Aster, he had been approached by B-Reel executives to helm a slasher film set in Sweden, an idea which he initially rejected as he felt he "had no way into the story."'

    Well, he found a way into the story.

    – JimDandy – am I a bit paranoid or is it that some liberals had the idea to make a film to oppose (and cash in at the same time on) – – – Trump’s critique of Sweden?

  62. One interesting thing to think about is how Clark’s theory fits with the narrative in The Bell Curve. From memory, TBC says there was historically a relatively weak relationship between cognitive ability and social class. Then in the 20th century, particularly with the development of cognitive testing for college admissions and greater economic returns to cognition (e.g., well paying nerd jobs), a strong relationship began to emerge. TBC also suggests that assortative mating increased greatly. Smart guys used to marry the girl next door. Now they marry the girl they met in grad school or whatever, who’s also probably smart. They say these conditions have caused an ongoing cognitive sorting that really took off in the 20th century.

    The first time I read TBC I think I assumed that the alleged weak relationship between cognitive ability and social class was because of lack of meritocracy. Think Jeeves and Wooster. (I would have to reread to see if TBC itself actually implies such a narrative or if that was purely my own interpolation). The great sorting still makes sense with Clark’s model because we should have expected to see a lot of rough diamonds in the lower classes. But it’s not because cognitive ability didn’t used to matter; rather it’s because many of them were descendants of the upper classes who, out of necessity, had to move down socially, despite being bright. And this amounted to a regular infusion of brains among the middle and lower classes.

  63. @Sam Coulton

    Until the mid-20th century “Aryan” was widely used in scientific discussion to express the broader term we now refer to as “Indo-European.” That switch was made not because the usage was “incorrect,”
     
    Yes, it patently was, because Aryan is an Indo-Iranian word. The Indo Iranian laguages formed after Yamnaya, and indeed, after the predecessors of the Aryans (Corded Ware) would go on to exterminate or otherwize displace the Yamnaya. There is no "Aryan" word in non-Iranian Indo European langauges. Nobody in their right minds uses Aryan to describe Yamnaya and your Wiki quote has nothing to do with this discussion.

    Why so belligerent? Logan made a perfectly sensible observation about usage and why there has been a change.

  64. @Lot
    It wasn’t regicide because Charles ceased being a lawful monarch when he made war on his people, including even conspiring with foreign princes to bring foreign mercenaries to kill Englishmen.

    Abusing a bunch of skeletons and hanging them... that’s an act of a spiteful degenerate retard. And a waste of money.

    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Oliver-Cromwell-by-Samuel-010.jpg

    A lot cheaper than providing bread and circuses in the Colosseum!

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