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From PsyPost:

Researchers identify a new personality construct that describes the tendency to see oneself as a victim

by Beth Ellwood December 9, 2020

A new personality construct has been defined that describes people who persistently see themselves as victims within interpersonal conflicts. The research was published in Personality and Individual Differences.

Study authors Rahav Gabay and team describe how the social world is satiated with interpersonal transgressions that are often unpleasant and seemingly unwarranted, such as being interrupted when speaking.

These psychologists are Israelis, so, yeah, people in Israel likely get interrupted a lot. (My impression is that Israelis rank with Lebanese, Germans, and Russians for brusqueness.)

While some people can easily brush off these moments of hurt, others tend to ruminate over them and persistently paint themselves as a victim. The authors present this feeling of being the victim as a novel personality construct that influences how people make sense of the world around them.

The researchers call it the Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood (TIV), which they define as “an ongoing feeling that the self is a victim, which is generalized across many kinds of relationships.”

Through a series of eight studies among Israeli adults, Gabay and associates sought to test the validity of the construct of TIV and explore the behavioral, cognitive, and emotional consequences of such a personality trait.

An initial three studies established the TIV as a consistent and stable trait that involves four dimensions: moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination.

 
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  1. … a consistent and stable trait that involves four dimensions: moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination.

    Them’s the makins of some good personalities right there!

    First, the iStevey question is of course is this personality, soon to be included in the next DSM book, a product of nature or nurture? Did this recently come about as a result of our present-day victimhood paradigm?

    Second, is it more of an “Israeli” thing? (You know what this means.)

    Third, have they included hair in this? Seriously, they should include black women and their hair.

  2. The authors present this feeling of being the victim as a novel personality construct that influences how people make sense of the world around them.

    Sheesh, these folksie pseuds noticed this three or four decades ago.

    And “Victim-Volunteer” is catchier than “TIV”.

  3. “Jews living among Jews notice a lot of whiny crybabies around.”

    • LOL: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Muggles
  4. Bill P says:

    Shylock syndrome?

    • Replies: @2BR
  5. I´m not too sure Israelis really want to go there (i.e. quantify it).
    And if they only use Israeli studies, how are they going to define “normal”?

    • LOL: 3g4me
  6. Feryl says:

    Does this “construct” include being a black person in a predominately woke white controlled environment?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  7. “…moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination.”

    That describes pretty much every Jew who’s ever lived though.

    • Replies: @Honest sockpuppet
  8. bomag says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    When you reward something, you get more of it.

  9. SafeNow says:

    This does not seem new. Exploring victimhood goes back to, well, Euripides’ Medea. Is a person the victim of harmful forces, or their author? And how do one’s emotions exaggerate those forces? There’s a smart scene in Duck Soup in which Groucho works himself up into a victim lather, and then this really nice foreign ambassador enters and extends his hand to have a handshake, and Groucho says, “So! You won’t shake my hand, eh!!”

    The only new wrinkle I would find important is analyzing how a personality style of victimhood, in today’s world, could lead the US to initiate a nuclear ash pile. Blinken at Anchorage, and the like.

  10. Perpetual victims, in the extreme, otherwise known as mass shooters. After that, they’re just the low-grade assholes at work and play that bitch, bitch, bitch about everything, 99% of these, women. Hardly a new discovery.

  11. AndrewR says:

    moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination

    These traits are so unlike Jewish people…

  12. dearieme says:

    rumination: I don’t suppose they mean chewing the cud. Presumably they mean cultivating their resentments.

  13. @Feryl

    Or does it include those white people who feel that their country is being invaded by blacks as a deliberate policy aimed at depriving their children of their birthright?

    This frame of mind certainly goes back as far as the Old Testament, where the prophets were fond the pointing out that whole races were being punished by God for moral slacking.

    TIV might be better named as the Jonah syndrome named after the poor fellow for whom it always went from bad to worse.

    But there is a fine line between TIV and good old-fashioned paranoid personality.

  14. @Buzz Mohawk

    Sounds like most white Christians

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  15. slumber_j says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Them’s the makins of some good personalities right there!

    Yes: sort of the most repellent personality imaginable, short of having actually violent/psychotic tendencies.

    I do think the inclusion of moral elitism and lack of empathy shows some good insight on the authors’ part. Those traits imply Humorless Scold, which is part of the whole package they’re indicating.

    In my experience victim types usually trace their miserable history back to how mean people were to them in adolescence, which they endlessly resent. What they don’t get is that people were mean to them in high school mostly because they themselves were so unpleasant, and the problem with their own personalities hasn’t changed at all in the intervening years. It can’t change: it won’t let itself.

  16. Jack D says:

    Right now I’m watching a piece on morning TV about a new Broadway play called “Thoughts of a Colored Man”. They proudly announced that it was an all black effort – black producer, black director, all black cast. They said the rehearsals were wonderful, because they were like a “safe space” for blacks to express their thoughts without any white people around.

    Substitute “white” for black in the above and the whole effort becomes deplorable instead of praiseworthy. Everyone involved would be cancelled. Why is that?

  17. Faszkalap says:

    One of the most interesting but least noticed cultural changes in the USA over the last 30 years is the adoption of a victim persona with which to cudgel others to do your selfish bidding.

    Being a victim — rightly or wrongly — had shameful overtones in the not so recent past. But today is the preferred identity of many Americans. Long gone is the frontier-type persona, best seen in the Greatest Generation of resourcefulness and ability to get shit done without complaint.

    This tendency shows up in all aspects of American culture. Elementary school children all have 504/IEPs. TV shows regularly celebrate the sacred and holy victims (all without agency). And today TikTok stars fall over each other to create explainers over who is the biggest victim.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  18. “Study authors Rahav Gabay and team describe how the social world is satiated with interpersonal transgressions…”

    “Satiated”? I assume the illiterate hack pounding this out meant “saturated” here. O for the days when “writers” actually knew what words meant.

  19. @Jack D

    I saw one of those modern electrified ads (what are they called?*) on the street yesterday for that production.

    The “billboard” consists of a rectangular pillar on a sidewalk. The top is a screen that flashes at you. I’ll have to check and describe it more carefully – I usually ignore them, but this was so ridiculous, I had to look.

    I laughed. What response does one have now, to this avalanche of blackolotry? They’ve got their own productions, and demand “representation” (i.e., numerical overrepresentation) in everything else.

    Do you have any suggestions? Don’t suggest that I take out an axe and hack it – I don’t carry when I’m in NYC, it wouldn’t work, and everything is on closed circuit TV, so I’d go to jail for doing something stupid.

    *PS it’s called a digital billboard.

  20. The tendency to see oneself as a victim is described as “Cluster B” personality disorder. One type is known as Borderline Personality Disorder.

    There is voluminous information on the net about this. I’m skeptical of much psychiatric lingo, but not this. BPD is real. All leftist women are BPD. Not most – all. All left-wing men are NPD – Narcissistic Personality Disorder. All.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Muggles
  21. @Jack D

    Substitute “white” for black in the above and the whole effort becomes deplorable instead of praiseworthy. Everyone involved would be cancelled. Why is that?

    That is weird, isn’t it?

    It’s what proves that what is going on now in our time is not some global attempt to be fair, but just the latest cycle in someone gaining dominance while others go down the low side of the sine curve.

    It’s like a kind of climate change, but it is human climate change. The human climate has always changed, with some going higher and some lower. Well, Whitey went all the way up to the Moon, but he is now on his way down to Hell.

    He is no longer allowed to have his own space, even though he is the only human to have explored it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. @Buzz Mohawk

    Second, is it more of an “Israeli” thing?

    Maybe not the answer you were expecting, but I doubt it.

    My own experience is anecdotal, even the total lifetime experience, and presumably under iSteve we are all smart enough to put anecdote in a skeptical little corner, but to relay my experience:

    I rather like working with Israelis. They are hard driving and straightforward and demanding and they don’t pull punches. The way to be successful with this is to answer kind-for-kind: be hard driving, straightforward and demanding and don’t pull punches and … most of them don’t take it personally, and they respect it, and much goodness follows.

    I’ve only encountered one case where a colleague seemed sensitive and I mostly attributed that to a perceived difference in status which, in said company of Israelis who as a rule don’t seem to care much about such things, mostly seemed out of place, so I attributed that to him as an individual.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  23. Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood

    moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination

    Steve, it’s called the Oy-genvalue

  24. The researchers call it the Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood (TIV), which they define as “an ongoing feeling that the self is a victim, which is generalized across many kinds of relationships.”

    It used to be that mental illness first appeared in the DSM of mental disorders and then became a celebrated lifestyle choice. Homosexuality went down this path. It started as a mental illness diagnosis in the DSM and now it is a celebrated lifestyle choice. Same with gender dysphoria. Started as a diagnosis and now is it a celebrated lifestyle choice.

    In today’s globohomo world, we’ve gotten this reversed. First we established the theory of intersectionality to make effeminate people feel better about their feelings of persecution and to set up preferences for them. Then we established the diagnosis — TIV.

  25. Alfa158 says:

    social world is satiated
    I guess PsyPost has taken up the new journalism practice of firing the editor and letting auto spell correction do all the editing.

  26. (My impression is that Israelis rank with Lebanese, Germans, and Russians for brusqueness

    We should keep in mind that the complaints are coming from the interrupted, not the interrupters. Some people spend so much time digressing and equivocating it will drive you mad. Spit it out already.

    Also women. I love my wife but she cannot tell a simple story about what happened to her friend without five minutes of background and exposition. I have several times considered jumping out of a moving car.

    And give me brusqueness over mealy-mouthed, passive-aggressive obsequiousness any day.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  27. 2BR says:
    @Bill P

    There is one honest, intelligent, non-hypocritical, non-whiny, character in that play: Shylock. The merchant, Antonio is a depressed hypocritical whiner. Bassanio doesn’t work, wastes all of his money and marries for money. Jessica and Lorenzo steal Shylock’s money while she whines about him. If that play is antisemitic, I missed it.

  28. Muggles says:
    @R.G. Camara

    When I asked one of my Jewish clients about their visit to Israel, they told me that Israelis were very rude and pushy. Didn’t like it.

  29. @slumber_j

    … they themselves were so unpleasant, and the problem with their own personalities hasn’t changed at all in the intervening years. It can’t change: it won’t let itself.

    Now I feel sorry for them. What horror to be trapped inside something like that.

    (Is this feeling, brought on by your perceptive comment, one of the weaknesses of the White Man? After all, it leads to empathy and then to a wish to help, and then even to sacrifice — until those for whom you feel sorry turn around and kill you.)

  30. Art Deco says:
    @slumber_j

    What they don’t get is that people were mean to them in high school mostly because they themselves were so unpleasant, and the problem with their own personalities hasn’t changed at all in the intervening years. It can’t change: it won’t let itself.

    I knew unpleasant people who were knocked around by their peers, but most of the outcasts weren’t unpleasant, just odd or vulnerable in some way.

    I think Tom Wolfe offered the observation that journalism was thick with people who’d been knocked around on the school yard and wanted revenge.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
  31. Art Deco says:

    Hmmm. There was a Dutch psychiatrist named GMJ van den Aardweg who published a number of monographs and articles on the subject of male homosexuality. His contention was that the genesis and maintenance of homosexual feelings was crucially dependent on seeing oneself as a victim and for that reason male homosexuals were a problem in hierarchical organizations.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  32. Muggles says:
    @Paperback Writer

    The tendency to see oneself as a victim is described as “Cluster B” personality disorder. One type is known as Borderline Personality Disorder.

    This is exactly what the neo Marxist cult of “oppression” is based upon.

    Not the fusty old Marxist “class warfare” but another conceptual model based upon a myopic version of history which divides groups of people from various geographic areas (racially different of course) into the “oppressed” and “oppressors.”

    I.e. “good and bad.”

    The cult of neo Marxist victimhood is the defining characteristic. As you have noted this is an embedded personality disorder for certain large groups of dysfunctional people.

    The entire Woke-Prog political bias is based upon embracing mental illness! That’s putting it delicately. And since all of the victim/victimizers groups are defined by events in the distant past, there is nothing that can be “done” to move from whatever group you were born into.

    Under classic Marxism, the children of the factory owner were tainted by parents but with enough good works (like killing your parents and similar) you might ascend from being a class enemy.

    With Woke Victimhood ideology, your race (however loosely and conveniently defined a/k/a Liz Warren, et. al.) determines your status as oppressed or oppressor.

    With this Marxism 2.0 the only cure isn’t class warfare or “Workers World” but simple extermination of the “oppressor” racial/ethnic group defined as such by DNA and convenient “identification” rules for biracial persons and of course, leaders of BLM.

  33. J.Ross says:

    Fake hysteria rules our world, not because our rulers are cowards, but because they are sociopaths who are largely happy with how it’s been working.
    One of right-wing radio’s more frustrating tendencies is falling for leftist scare-accusations. This is especially annoying given the current 24-hour reliance by the establishment on hysteria. Thus Sean Hannity admonishes listeners to not blow up their school boards. Not only are there no parent-terrorists blowing up school boards, but this scared female administrator garbage explains nearly everything the government does wrong, especially during the lockdown, after The Russians, in the shadow of January Sixth, under the looming new internet censorship, and in memory of the plot to not assassinate Michigan Governor Whitmer. It is also the official explanation for why we cannot have real elections and the reason police need to be defunded. If Republicans stood up to this, as they managed to do just long enough to get Judge Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court, Democrats would have no counter.

  34. J.Ross says:
    @slumber_j

    Strong disagree here: our current vampiric inept elite give off cool kid vibes. Facebook morality is conformity, nothing else.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
  35. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @Muggles

    I have to disagree here. I like the Israelis in Israel far more than their US counterparts. The Israelis are not liberal, not woke, not trying to be funny or clever all the time and very straightforward. You see young people in uniform everywhere. I enjoyed it.

    • Replies: @Right_On
  36. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    It’s what proves that what is going on now in our time is not some global attempt to be fair, but just the latest cycle in someone gaining dominance while others go down the low side of the sine curve.

    Not necessarily. It is consistent with an attempt to level the playing field, an attempt to right wrongs.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Art Deco
  37. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    His contention was that the genesis and maintenance of homosexual feelings was crucially dependent on seeing oneself as a victim and for that reason male homosexuals were a problem in hierarchical organizations.

    How does seeing oneself as a victim pose a problem to hierarchical organizations?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  38. 2BR says:
    @slumber_j

    I disagree. I think Dave Chapelle has turned into a humorless scold. He didn’t use to be. He used to be hilarious. And I agree with him ! – but he is now practically lecturing the audience, like every liberal “comedian”. There is a real angry bitterness about him. I don’t think anyone was mean to him in adolescence – I think it comes from now. Humorless scolds are an unpleasant feature of our entertainment business.

  39. res says:
    @slumber_j

    people were mean to them in high school mostly because they themselves were so unpleasant

    I think that is more commonly related to being different from others than to being unpleasant to them. Appearing weak also contributes.

  40. Yeah, those people who can’t afford a place to hang their hat when rents are mind-bogglingly high have a lot of gall considering themselves victims.

  41. It’s easier to claim victim status than to take responsibility for one’s actions. The world is such a mean place, woe is me.

  42. anon[307] • Disclaimer says:

    what about the “construct” of “shut up. stop playing the victim. embrace the just world phenomenon. stop whining. is = ought.” said to everyone however victimized he may be?

    the powerless are always victims of the powerful, and the powerful are often victims of the even more powerful. and all are victims of Nature. humans are social animals, contrary to libertarian dogma, and thus victims and victimizers are inevitably abundant.

    He asked, “Excuse me, I would like to ask your opinion on the current meat shortage?”

    The American man replied, “what is a shortage?”

    The Somali man said, “what is meat?”

    The North Korean man replied, “what is an opinion?”

    The Israeli replied, “What is ‘excuse me?’”

    germans are the chinks of europe.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  43. Not Raul says:

    So, neurotic narcissists?

  44. Not Raul says:
    @Muggles

    When I asked one of my Jewish clients about their visit to Israel, they told me that Israelis were very rude and pushy. Didn’t like it.

    They would go to a muggle shrink?

  45. njguy73 says:
    @Muggles

    A Russian, a Chinaman, an American, and an Israeli are standing on a street corner. A reporter asks them:

    “Can you tell me your opinion of the meat shortage, please?’

    The Russian: “What’s ‘meat’?”
    The Chinaman: “What’s ‘opinion’?”
    The American: “What’s ‘shortage’?”
    The Israeli: “What’s ‘please’?”

  46. res says:

    Full text of the research paper is available at
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341548585_The_Tendency_for_Interpersonal_Victimhood_The_Personality_Construct_and_its_Consequences

    Some good insights and additional detail. For example.

    This definition was not obvious to me, but seems dead on as a part of the phenomenon we are trying to describe.

    Moral elitism refers to the perception of immaculate morality of the self and the immorality of the other side.

    I’d be careful of generalizing these results too much based on the sample size and uniformity (there was more than one study, samples appear similar, but not identical).

    Participants. Participants were 161 Jewish-Israelis (82 men; Mage = 42.23, SDage = 15.11).

    The external locus of control idea has come up here before–notably in descriptions of how self-defeating some of the way blacks are encouraged to see the world are (basically the opposite of cognitive behavioral therapy).

    This hypothesis draws on the notion that enduring feelings of victimhood are associated with an external locus of control (Bar-Tal et al., 2009).

    Some correlations. Relative lack of Big Five correlations is interesting.

    [TIV] was positively correlated with rejection sensitivity, victim sensitivity, private and public consciousness (Study 2B), exaggerated entitlement in romantic relations, lack of trust, rumination-depression, and was unrelated to the Big Five personality dimensions, except neuroticism (Study 2C).

    negative, but not positive stimuli, appear to activate the victimhood schema

    Also related to CBT comment above.

    According to this literature, victimhood is strongly dissociated from agency, and therefore decreases individuals’ belief that they can deal with difficulties in their interpersonal relations.

    They noticed the CBT connection.

    It provides a better understanding of the way processes of interpretation, attribution, and memory reinforce feelings of victimhood and retaliatory behaviors, which could be treated with different types of therapy (e.g., CBT, schema therapy) to decrease these negative cognitive biases.

    I think this paragraph captures some of the observations of black self esteem which are discussed here at times.

    Two dispositional traits related to TIV have been examined in the past; namely, narcissism and self-esteem, and deserve comment. Similar to TIV, narcissism and self-esteem both involve a general focus on the self and a strong sense of entitlement (Stronge, Cichocka, & Sibley, 2016). In addition, narcissism, but not self-esteem, was found to be associated with experiencing ambiguous situations as more hurtful and involved showing more hostility toward others (Bushman & Baumeister, 1998; McCullough, Emmons, Kilpatrick, & Mooney, 2003). Furthermore, we argue that the self-esteem of high-TIV individuals would be unstable, based on the relationship between TIV, anxious attachment, external locus of control, and sensitivity to imagined or actual offenses. An unstable self-image also characterizes narcissism (Rhodewalt, Madrian, & Cheney, 1998) and leads, in turn, to vulnerability to threats to the self (Bushman & Baumeister, 1997).

    But note the distinction between TIV and narcissism.

    We also posit that both narcissism and TIV are characterized by vulnerability to threats to the self, but that the content of these threats would be different. Narcissists present themselves to the world as strong, capable, and talented (and relatedly, differently from TIV, narcissism was found to be associated with extraversion; Stronge et al., 2016). Therefore, threats are related to anything undermining their grandiosity and superiority, such as extraordinary abilities, achievements or positive qualities. In contrast, the self-presentation of high-TIV individuals is that of a weak victim, who has been hurt and is therefore in need of who must face a cruel and abusive world. Threats to high-TIV individuals are related to anything that can undermine their self-image of moral superiority; or elicit doubts from their environment as to whether the offense occurred, the intensity of the offense, or their exclusivity as victims.

    This reference looks worth following.

    Preliminary evidence indicates that the TIV scale had sufficient reliability and convergent validity in convenience and representative samples of Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. (Hameiri, Moore-Berg, Guillard, Falk, & Bruneau, 2020).

    Hameiri, B., Moore-Berg, S. L., Guillard, C., Falk, E., & Bruneau, E. G. (2020). Perceived victimhood shapes support for political violence. Manuscript submitted for publication.

    I am unable to find a link for it (though the search for the title showed some other articles which might be of interest), but think we should keep an eye out for its publication.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  47. @Muggles

    And I’ll bet that person told you they couldn’t understand it.

    Self-reflection and self-assessment has never been a strong suit amongst the Hebrews.

  48. Thoughts says:
    @slumber_j

    I never saw a nice kid get bullied

    • Disagree: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  49. bomag says:
    @Jack D

    Agree with Buzz. It is a form of the emperor making the court declare that a deer is a horse.

    Typical lib response is that blacks have been so dispossessed by the modern world that we must give them massive amounts of stuff, attention, and all-black media shows to compensate. Problem is, blacks are in charge of perfecting complaints; mandating redress; and deciding when and how much is enough. We should have an objective third party ruling on this, but we are in an age of drinking kool-aid.

  50. pirelli says:

    This is just the way old-fashioned narcissism expresses itself under the current prevailing cultural paradigm, which awards higher social status to so-called “victims.” This isn’t really a new “tendency” or “personality construct,” just a new expression of a preexisting and quite familiar tendency / personality type.

  51. Muggles says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Also women. I love my wife but she cannot tell a simple story about what happened to her friend without five minutes of background and exposition. I have several times considered jumping out of a moving car.

    You’d better not let her know about that…

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  52. Anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:

    Group differences in pain response are something that has been regularly published in recent nursing textbooks:

    • Replies: @res
    , @Brutusale
  53. Anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:

    These psychologists are Israelis, so, yeah, people in Israel likely get interrupted a lot. (My impression is that Israelis rank with Lebanese, Germans, and Russians for brusqueness.)

    Germans, Slavs, and other northern Europeans tend to be introverted and stoic with respect to pain. Whereas Jews and presumably Israelis as well tend to be communicative and emotionally expressive with respect to pain:

    https://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/12/white-culture-jewish-culture-and.html

    Among WASPs (called by Zborowski (1969) “Old Americans”) there were a number of interesting patterns in their responses to pain. There was a general reluctance to speak of, or to express, pain because this was seen as useless…Like WASPs, the Irish emphasized stoicism, selfcontrol, and tried to hide their pain even from their family. [. . .]…This difficulty has been reported among WASP (McGill & Pearce, 1982), German (Winawer-Steiner & Wetzel, 1982), and Polish (Mondykowski, 1982) clients. Therapy is often seen as foreign to their culture, and people are often suspicious of those who practice it and/ or fearful about becoming involved in it….

    Rather than being stoic and viewing emotional expression as useless, Jews tended to be highly communicative and saw value in expressing their emotions. In contrast to “taking it like a man” and finding honor in denying their pain, the expressiveness of Jewish patients seems almost theatrical. One patient reported, “I rolled on the floor from this wall to that wall—chewing the carpet. For eight months!” (1969, p. 99). Another stated, “I bang my head against the wall, I’ve shoved my face into boiling water . . . trying all sorts of things that might give me relief” (p. 99). Regarding the value of expressiveness, a patient said, “I let out the emotion. Because I knew it’s best to let it out than to keep it within yourself. Cry it out and be better off” (p. 102). Another one reported that he cried when in pain: “It’s the only thing I can do—the only outlet I’ve got” (p. 102). Another function of expressiveness was that it connected the patients to other people. Rather than suffering alone and in silence, Jewish suffering was communicated to the entire family who became involved in assisting the patient. Thus, the expression of pain served the dual purposes of release and social connectedness. [. . .]

  54. ATBOTL says:

    My impression is that Israelis rank with Lebanese, Germans, and Russians for brusqueness.

    Ukrainians are the rudest people in the world.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  55. @anon

    “What is ‘excuse me?’” doesn’t properly define Israelis.

    The classic culture-defining joke is the American guy who is on an El Al flight. The flight attendant asks, “Would you like something to drink?”

    American guy asks, “What are my choices”?

    The flight attendant curtly replies, “Yes or no.”

  56. SafeNow says:
    @Muggles

    Ah, a story about what happened to her FRIEND. I think there is a crucial difference between a story about what happened to a friend versus what happened to me myself. Maybe the nicest thing a wife could do for a husband is to say “Tell me a tale.”

  57. ta nehisi coates and roxanne gay and others only claim to fame is that they feel this way and are well compensated for it. Mining SJWs for their livelyhood, and doing well. And, actually, henry louis gates started this with obama’s help and the beer summit.

  58. An initial three studies established the TIV as a consistent and stable trait that involves four dimensions: moral elitism, a lack of empathy, the need for recognition, and rumination.

    Interpersonal victimhood = M.O.: contrived relationship.

  59. anon[302] • Disclaimer says:

    Does anyone see a connection to the Holocaust story?

    “Threats to high-TIV individuals are related to anything that can undermine their self-image of moral superiority; or elicit doubts from their environment as to whether the offense occurred, the intensity of the offense, or their exclusivity as victims.”

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341548585_The_Tendency_for_Interpersonal_Victimhood_The_Personality_Construct_and_its_Consequences

  60. @Muggles

    When I asked one of my Jewish clients about their visit to Israel, they told me that Israelis were very rude and pushy. Didn’t like it.

    “You go to Israel and you come back looking like a shvartzer and talking like Hitler.”

    –Howard Jacobson, The Mighty Waltzer

  61. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    Because the subject feels put upon when treated brusquely and expected to work toward organizational goals.

  62. One of the great paradoxes of the age is that the Woke/D.I.E. movement has failed to produce any sense of self-esteem among so-called “marginalized people” Rather, it has only heightened their sense of victimization.

  63. Right_On says:
    @Anon

    The Israelis are not liberal, not woke . . You see young people in uniform everywhere.

    I visited the place in the 80s; I remember The Cure’s Killing an Arab was still popular.
    I saw a detachment of young IDF women (they conscript gals), all of them good-looking. Made me seriously wonder if the authorities deliberately selected the best eye candy to supervise the tourist areas to make a good impression.

  64. Anon[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thoughts

    Then you have never seen girls in 6th grade.

  65. res says:
    @Anonymous

    So is medical care made better or worse by having that information in the textbook? That is the issue that matters, right?

  66. @Thoughts

    I never saw a nice kid get bullied

    I sure did. There were plenty of Moes around. Perhaps your town’s bullies were retarded? Or just choosier?

  67. Victimhood hard-at-work.

    Black former firefighter sues Florida city after mural depicted her with white face

    Most contemporary public murals are eyesores anyway. She should be relieved.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  68. Anonymous[192] • Disclaimer says:
    @Faszkalap

    This is a consequence of blank-slatism. It used to be believed that looserdom was innate and inherited. Now it’s assumed to be the result of oppression. The stigma is gone.

  69. Too many psychologists; and lawyers.

    I am so sick and tired of Freudian explanations for everything under the sun. Government spending on mental health services is often one of the fastest growing budget items.

    Oh, and get those darn grief counselors OUT of the public schools.

  70. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Isn’t it said that two wrongs don’t make a right? If we have seen the light and declared it wrong (nay, illegal and immoral) for whites to have exclusively white spaces, then why isn’t it equally wrong for blacks to have exclusively black spaces? Either racial exclusion is wrong or it isn’t. The only thing that it is consistent with is кто кого.

  71. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    Not necessarily. It is consistent with an attempt to level the playing field, an attempt to right wrongs.

    If you actually did wish to ‘right wrongs’ you’d be on the side of vigorous order maintenance in slums, vigorous instructional tracking, and the distribution of berths in schools and in public employment through impersonal examinations. You’d be in favor of common provision not infected with perverse incentives. You’d also be in favor of leaving private parties in peace except when monopoly or market dominance is an issue in a given situation. Woke-tards are not in favor of any of these things.

  72. slumber_j says:
    @Art Deco

    Okay, but do the non-unpleasant ones manifest this set of traits in later life? Right about Tom Wolfe, a journalist who wasn’t that way at all.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  73. slumber_j says:
    @J.Ross

    How pleasant do you suppose e.g. Mark Zuckerberg was in high school?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  74. Art Deco says:
    @slumber_j

    Not sure. Two people I can recall who were badly treated by their peers I can locate with short searches. One was pleasant but awkward at the time, the other a resentful bitc*. Both are female; they weren’t roughed up physically; both boys and girls treated them badly. As of now, both appear to be married. Not sure what they do for a living, but they are enmeshed in arts and crafts, which is why you can locate them. One makes jewelry with her daughter; I very seldom find jewelry the least bit interesting unless it’s in a museum and her stuff is meh. The other makes oil paintings sold at galleries in Colorado (she landed a berth at RISD many moons ago). The other’s work is junk as far as I can tell, described by the author and others with the usual gassy blather of contemporary art criticism. One datum which speaks in her favor is that when her ancient father reached a certain age, he decamped to Colorado to be near her rather than stay in town where her brother was and where he’d lived for 50-odd years. Her son works for Google.

    Jonathan Eig of the Wall Street Journal wrote a posthumous profile of the person who’d made him miserable at age 7. It was published in the Journal ca. 2003. Worth a read.

    • Thanks: slumber_j
  75. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous

    You really need to hear my girlfriend’s old stories about her Jewish patients at Beth Israel Hospital.

  76. @Martin Davies

    A lifelong socially rejected person of the high iq type of any ethnicity will tend towards these ugly coping mechanisms… the problem is that Jewish culture is often geared towards producing narrowly developed “brain-only” personalities that live in contradiction to a balanced life and balanced people. That culture has taken the shitty temporary predicament of exclusion and its consequent inferiority/superiority dynamics and kept the jewish people stuck there century after century…

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @anon
    , @Art Deco
  77. Sorry… accidental reposting

  78. J.Ross says:
    @slumber_j

    What I fear is that everybody actually stays the same as they were in high school.

  79. J.Ross says:
    @Honest sockpuppet

    If Joy Behar is brain-only, which brain is she using?

  80. J.Ross says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    At first I thought that was a completely different person. If you look closely, it’s her, from that photograph, but the artist was incompetant and did a bad job dealing with the light, so you get an almost inverted smear. I don’t know enough about photography to identify the exact error but it looks like the artist used the same mechanism or degree to transfer her image as could be safely used with the two white women. One of the best bits in Dolemite Is My Name:
    Ricky: I’m going to shoot it.
    Real actor: No, you can’t; you need a professional. You need someone who knows how to photograph black people.
    Ricky: What?
    Real: The light has to be corrected. Black people photograph differently than white people.
    Ricky: That’s racism!
    Real: No, that’s photography.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  81. anon[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Honest sockpuppet

    That culture has taken the shitty temporary predicament of exclusion and its consequent inferiority/superiority dynamics and kept the jewish people stuck there century after century…

    The whole point of the culture was/is exclusion. It wasn’t a “predicament”; they were the ones who practiced exclusion—exclusion of others. They could have assimilated just like everyone else.

  82. Well heck, what about me?

    I’m short, bald, rather “robust” (round in shape), can’t run very fast and have no luck with women whatsoever. Ya’all cannot even imagine how I have suffered!

    Clearly, I must be a victim of some monstrous discrimination and deserve a very substantial monetary compensation for my endless misery!

    Who in charge of putting things right for me is still quite unclear, but I’ll accept Bitcoin though…

  83. Art Deco says:
    @Honest sockpuppet

    the problem is that Jewish culture is often geared towards producing narrowly developed “brain-only” personalities that live in contradiction to a balanced life and balanced people.

    Is the divorce rate for American Jews higher or lower than national means? How about the bastardy rate? The incarceration rate?

  84. @J.Ross

    Real: The light has to be corrected. Black people photograph differently than white people.
    Ricky: That’s racism!
    Real: No, that’s photography.

    My mother’s late cousin was a pale indoor girl who married a Jamaican music producer. It was almost impossible to photograph them together, not with the technology of forty years ago.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. @res

    Great post and great detail. Thanks!

    The psychologists involved have done us all a favour by sticking a label and some research journal legitimacy to what is a common complex.

    By “complex”, I mean something which anyone can tap into at any point, or fall into, but some people are so totally captured by, that it serves as an archetypal description of who they are.

    I like how they have identified that an “external locus of control” is often the wellspring from where the rest of the traits flow. This is how complexes work, they usually have a core idea, which if too strongly clung to, fixes the individual in an archetype which comes to dominate them and wreaks havoc with how they perceive the world. It is not really distinguishable in practice from the idea of spiritual possession.

    Here is a link to someone exploring this issue in a relatable way. She uses the simple label “victim archetype” and notes how often people fit that description, but are in disguise, even from themselves: https://susannabarlow.com/2021/08/09/understanding-the-victim-archetype/

    [MORE]

    1. She notices that victims and “enablers” work together. The enabler gets to feel needed and the victim has their entitlement validated. Enablers really are just victims but who deny their own need to feel victimhood. You can see this in politics a lot, with people who speak just like “victims” but always about some other group. I suppose they often now call themselves “allies”.

    2. She observes that “victims” have a deep fear that their identity won’t survive, which can be a big practical problem. If someone comes to identify so closely with their archetype, and its primary concern is that they won’t survive, they will defend that archetype to their extreme detriment. Change will be terrifying for them, even to grow past the “victim” state and try to be a “victor.”

    3. Helping people out of this state is made easiest by getting them to see their own incredible entitlement. Of course, they will be seeing it in everyone else before they can see it in themselves, so this may be challenging.

    4. She lists and makes many excellent points about particular flavours of victimhood and what types of “villains” they need to project out. “White supremacy” is an obvious one. What she also notices is how the victim usually has this “villain” in their head. This means that the “villain” is literally them too. I like to observe that if you argue with someone in an internal dialogue repeatedly, then that is because you sort of agree with their points. Otherwise, you would not argue. In this way, those who rail against “white supremacy, ” probably believe literally that whites are innately supreme. This is especially true when you’re allocating all agency and power to the other group.

    5. She adds that victims are constant perpetrators. Of course entitlement + no sense of responsibility = blank cheque for nastiness.

    She also provides useful practical guidance to people mired in all of this.

    1. The enabler needs to recognise that they are the victim. Those who have done that then need to feel their fear, but act regardless.

    2. It is best not to fall into the trap that all power is internal, as that will lead to you constantly unconsciously putting yourself in situations where you are victimised, but realising that your decisions and your actions, in response to circumstance, are what matters to you, provides the balance.

    I would advise anyone reading though, that if you find you have a very strong emotional reaction against the victim archetype, that this is a sign of something dangerous for you. If you can totally repress the victim archetype in yourself then you will likely have few boundaries, except in times of emotional stress, or when you can objectively justify them.

    You may also find you have a politicised fear of apocalypse or collapse of some other catastrophe. For it is only in catastrophe that you might justify seeing the victim complex in yourself and appreciating what it can tell you. Your dreams and what you find yourself interested in are your unconscious trying to balance you out and bring complexes like this to the fore.

    Many white progressives fall into this, which is why they end enablers or “allies”, while being very hard on themselves in their personal lives and they have an inability to assert their own interests or act when they feel in danger.

    The victim archetype is an important part of everybody and, while it should consume no one, otherwise you get the people investigated in the study, it should also be prized as your internal set of warning signs and sense of assertion.

    Not allowing yourself to express when your feelings are hurt, especially to yourself, and act in accordance with that fact, is just as lacking in integrity as using your hurt feelings to try to bully or control others.

  86. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    My mother’s late cousin was a pale indoor girl who married a Jamaican music producer. It was almost impossible to photograph them together, not with the technology of forty years ago.

    You mean like this?

  87. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    … presumably under iSteve we are all smart enough to put anecdote in a skeptical little corner, but to relay my experience:

    Don’t worry. Our anecdotes are, by definition, from real life, and very often indicative of the general truth. I would categorize yours as such.

    My own experiences with “da joos” is similar. In fact it is better. I’ve known them all my life. By a vast margin, they have been:

    Interesting
    Intelligent
    Fair
    Honest
    Friendly
    Witty
    Pretty much like me

    I will add Sexy for the two Jewish women I dated.

    So, what is an UNZ reader to make of this? Really no problem. Perhaps first of all because there seem to be plenty of cool, Jewish commenters here with plenty to contribute. (Oh, don’t go calling them “controlled opposition.” LOL. Some are clearly just as addicted to this site as I am, and I have argued with some of them and even made fun of them. You must know that Jewish humor includes a suit of armor that allows anyone to stand up to ostensibly insulting jokes. No problem! Bring on your joke or your argument!)

    There is a real thing going on that is “Jewish,” but it does not include the vast majority of Jewish people. You see, it’s kind of like what the rest of us White people are going through now: i.e. we all are being labeled as something evil. Ha ha ha, most people of any group are just trying to live the best life they can — and most people of any group possess empathy and deep down want to be good.

  88. @ATBOTL

    Ukrainians are the rudest people in the world.

    Why are you saying that?

    If by “Ukrainian” you actually mean “Russian by another name,” then perhaps I can agree with you — except for the fact that Russians themselves (who might as well be Ukrainian) are not particularly rude.

    My wife, BTW, categorizes Ukrainians as Russians, and thus I do too now, because she is from that region and should know. She also says the same thing about people like Lithuanians and such. To her, they are all Russians. I don’t know, but what I do know is this:

    The Russians (and “Ukrainians”) I have known were: boastful, stoic, overly self-confident, ignorant of much of Western accomplishments, and strangely relaxed about the whole thing.

    The “Ukrainian” nationalist woman I once dated fit that description. So did her father, a former Soviet nuclear submarine captain. I had Thanksgiving dinner with them (I brought the turkey) and he let me put on his old, Soviet captain’s hat. He suddently looked right into my eyes with an electric, jarring stare that I had never experience before. I’m still not sure of the meaning. I was laughing, and maybe that’s what prompted his stare. I was thinking of Sean Connery in Red October.

    There is no reason in the world for your comment. There are far more rude people to be found. Maybe you interpreted massive braggadocio as rudeness. This is to be understood, because they do possess that in spades.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  89. @Buzz Mohawk

    Maybe you interpreted massive braggadocio as rudeness. This is to be understood, because they do possess that in spades.

    Have all the true Yankees left your neighborhood? Braggadoccio is indeed rude, especially the “massive” variety.

    Hell, it’s even a genre of rap:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braggadocio_%28rap%29

    Is there a genre of anything known for understatement? Haiku? Punch cartoons? Sly Economist winks?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  90. @Reg Cæsar

    Have all the true Yankees left your neighborhood?

    Yeah, pretty much. Even I am a transplant from the Rockies.

    Braggadoccio is indeed rude…

    Really? What I have seen among Russians was not directed at me. It’s mostly machismo. It’s simply their egos strutting in front of me. Is that rude, or just pathetic?

    How many Russians have you known? To me, this is just how they act. In the men, it is outward, whereas in the women, it is more of a catlike self-confidence and arrogance.

    Let’s give the Russians some credit. Maybe we should start acting more like them.

    (BTW, I agree “massive” is an overstatement.)

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