The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Taliban Fail to Think Globally
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

“OK, I admit, I dunno where Afghanistan is on the map. But one thing I do know, like my favorite movie said: ‘We live here.’ You may have all the maps, but we have all the land.”

Then again, for all I know, this whole video could be some guy dressing up in his Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves Halloween costume and faking it.

The concept of a map, much less of a globe, took a long time to catch on in world history. Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps. People thought more in terms of itineraries back then, like GPS instructions now.

I recall a mid-1990s meeting at work to create our firm’s first home page on the World Wide Web:

Woman: “To help visitors get to our office, let’s have street instructions like ‘Turn right on Lake Street then left on Clinton.'”

Man: “Let’s have a map instead.”

Woman: “Does anybody really look at maps?”

[General tumult]

Me: “You know, on the WWW, we have room for both.”

 
Hide 164 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. “You know, on the WWW, we have room to have both.”

    Does anyone remember 1994-95, when the online population still skewed relatively intelligent? A bit nerdy, sure, but not clinically retarded yet? Here it is 2021 and we still have politicians talking about the “digital divide” and how we must devote some of our infinite trillions toward making sure every person has free broadband access? Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Polistra

    To your point, when getting on the Internet required typing commands at a command prompt, it generally required a modicum of intelligence in its users. The creation of the WWW made it possible both for the dumb to get on the net as well as for the net to be used to further dumb them down.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @TelfoedJohn
    @Polistra


    Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.
     
    Technology can make clever people cleverer and dumb people dumber. Among the black underclass of Detroit, Chicago etc, many kids and teenagers are functionally illiterate. To do anything on their phone they just ask Siri (or Google, Samsung equivalents). The ability to read or write is not necessary. Apple are encouraging this by offering a Siri-only Music service, where you can ONLY use your voice to choose music: https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/apple-music-voice-siri-plan-1235091801/
    , @J.Ross
    @Polistra

    They want the internet to be TV and you have just explained why.

    Replies: @Lurker

  2. ‘Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps.’

    It’s interesting looking at what the Romans had instead what we would call maps. More like flow charts; ‘to get to Marseilles from Rome, go to Bologna and turn left.’

    I find it somehow hard to grasp that they might have had little idea of the shape of Italy, for example. I can’t even think of Italy without seeing the image of its map in my head — but if I showed that image to a Roman and told him it was what Italy looked like, he’d think I had a screw loose. For some reason, I was showing him a drawing (and the Romans could draw perfectly well) of what appeared to be a bone with a lot of the meat still on and claiming it was Italy.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Colin Wright

    It's also interesting that Roman engineers didn't have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton, @Bardon Kaldian, @Ralph L, @Eric Novak

    , @El Dato
    @Colin Wright

    An interesting point.

    I guess "maps" had to be invented the same way as our concept of "time". The cloud of locations and points had to be transformed from an incomplete graph of events or graph of places with relative relationships like "comes 5 years after" or "is 15 days' march to the west of" into points on absolute background canvas in which everything that can be located and everything that happens can in principle be seamlessly recorded (though quantum mechanics has thrown a big spanner into this primitive picture as not only is an infinite amount of stuff happening at every single moment but also only a finite amount of it is recorded with any attempt are making things too newtonianically precise hidden behind a veil of imprecision, so ... back to graphs? but which graphs?)

    Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using "grid cells" is progressing

    2014-10: Brain’s Positioning System Linked to Memory: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to three researchers who discovered how the brain navigates the world. Their work may also help illuminate how the mind stores memories.

    2016-01: New Clues to How the Brain Maps Time: The same brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time. The research suggests that our thoughts may take place on a mental space-time canvas.

    2019-01: The Brain Maps Out Ideas and Memories Like Spaces: merging evidence suggests that the brain encodes abstract knowledge in the same way that it represents positions in space, which hints at a more universal theory of cognition.

    2019-10: Goals and Rewards Redraw the Brain’s Map of the World: Two new studies show that the brain’s navigation system changes how it represents physical space to reflect personal experience.

    2021-10: How Animals Map 3D Spaces Surprises Brain Researchers: When animals move through 3D spaces, the neat system of grid cell activity they use for navigating on flat surfaces gets more disorderly. That has implications for some ideas about memory and other processes.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Colin Wright

    , @Muggles
    @Colin Wright

    I am not sure that Roman generals (or others) didn't have maps.

    Paper was very scarce and crumbles badly over time.

    They did have surveys and boundary markers.

    The kind of maps we use now assume an "above the object" perspective, as in a God's eye view or nowadays, from aircraft. Ancient peoples only had mountains or tall objects where the range of vision was at most, perhaps 50 miles.

    Even today property surveys rely on ground measurements and location markers. Point to point surveys rely on distances from markers or larger objects, and angles measured.

    But there are a few early maps showing relative locations of rivers, seas, mountains, etc. sometimes on large walls or even carved. Not many survived.

    There was little paper (which rarely survived), no printing and aside from tall structures or mountains, no aerial overviews. For a general or traveler, simple directions using ground objects, distances estimated or based on time to traverse, would probably be more useful. There were almost no actual "roads" other than animal tracks or wagon tracks. Very few bridges, only ferries.

    Since few were literate in any sense, other than relative sizes and approximate boundaries, maps with names would be useless.

    "Turn left at the Tiber and march for three days, until you reach a mountain with a stone cap"
    would be far more useful.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Colin Wright

    It seems hard to believe they didn't have "maps." Wasn't the pythagorian theory developed for land surveys? And aren't maps just extended surveys?

    On the other hand, the obvious things that weren't invented are sometimes as surprising as the ingenious things that were. For example, the Romans invented cement but the idea of using a saddle or stirrups never occurred to them.

    Seriously? How could you spend hundreds of years falling off of horses and thinking "boy, I wish there was some device to hold me on the back of this animal, but oh well . . ."

  3. I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • LOL: Charon
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.
     
    Can any man follow the directions from that Google Map's bitch's voice emanating from the tablet? It's not Alexa, but may as well be. I want to smash the thing, but I was reared never to hit a girl.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman, @El Dato

    , @Alfa158
    @Anon

    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination. Having GPS systems that give verbal instructions on where to turn have been a godsend for her. If she looks at the display at all, she’ll bring up the screen with the list of directions.
    I’ve never met another man who is quite as bad at map-reading and directions as many women are.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Twinkie

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anon

    Right!

    I do know a certain boy who could be taught to read a map at 6 y/o. I missed a turn on a 200 mile road trip and got him to put me on an alternate routing from the back seat. In the meantime, the boy's Mom, on another occasion, having gone the simple way - with only 6 turns - to the judo place already 4 or 5 times, had run out of the monthly data plan on her phone (due to the boy having used it for something or other) and went ahead and paid $4.95 to get her app back in business to guide her to Judo.

    "C;mon, Mama, it's so simple! Whaddya' need, refresher data? It's all maps nowadays!".

    , @Gordo
    @Anon

    Some years ago, before satnavs, my wife and I drove across Germany, she drove because she couldn't read the map. Nightmare as her driving wasn't better than her map reading.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @Anon

    Interesting. It makes me realize that when I want to go somewhere, I break out my paper map, or make one using Google maps; so I can get the big picture of where I am going. The wife, on the other hand, just prints out turn-by-turn instructions, with zero context about the general surroundings.

  4. 23% of Americans can find Iran on a map.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/can-you-find-iran-on-a-map/

    • Replies: @Charon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That's about how many it's possible to have a reasonably intelligent conversation with, too. On a very good day, I mean.

    You want to have some sort of high-level exchange, it's more like one to two percent.

    Who was the last American president with whom you'd enjoy an abstract or theoretical conversation?

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Hannah Katz
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The good news is that both Iran and Afghanistan are about as far away from us as you can get. Sadly, they and folks from the other Stans are now sneaking across our southern border. :-(

    , @Rob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I wish that number were literally 100%. Then we could avoid the next stupid war.

  5. Also in TikTok news.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1450117732817637383

    The destabilising force of teenage girls on political discourse since around 2013 is the proximate cause of the Great Awokening.

    Teenage girls watch TikTokers with Tourette’s. They subsequently present with Tourette’s. Social contagion and attention-seeking imitation.

    And you just handed those same cohorts the power of who is and isn’t ‘okay’ in politics and society. As well as having tens if not hundreds of thousands of them mutilated and pumped full Lupron and testosterone.

    Well done, ‘adults in the room’.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Altai

    In spite of (christian? cartesian? enlighenment? kantian?) idea of humans-as-islands, they are not. NATO recently declaring the "brain" as a future battlefield is just another sign that we all know that. Get ready for full meme attack via CNN newsticker. Maybe their "next stuff" will be more containable than the Rona.

    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?

    Replies: @Altai

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Altai

    "Kayla—who years earlier had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder"

    What were the incidences of such "disorders" in, say, the 1950s?

    I would imagine that few 17 year old girls in Afghanistan are presenting with Tourette's. Breech presentation is a more likely worry.

    https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/guidelines/gtg20b/

    , @MEH 0910
    @Altai

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1450287283387580420

  6. Does the woman now work for Google Maps?

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    That is even funnier, Redneck, with regard to the new phone apps. My wife will turn them on a few times when I have gotten lazy or it is worth using (on a long road trip at night, diverting to a certain store well off the route to get a birthday cake, for example).

    Have you heard the sound from these things lately? I really believe the software developers were told by marketing to turn this into a NWA. (That's Nagging Wife App.) I mean, you get told 3 times coming up to a turn about making sure to keep right, it's coming soon, etc. Both me and my boy kept going "OK, we got it!"

    This WILL be a blog post on Peak Stupidity. Thanks for the reminder.

    [EDIT: Just saw Reg's comment. DITTO!]

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

  7. The Taliban can’t find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    @R.G. Camara

    They beat the shit out of the boy raping dope dealers and the US.

    Stop defaming your enemies. Often they are bad enough without anglo-american lies, and often you get confused yourself -- as in this case.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Wade Hampton

    , @Sternhammer
    @R.G. Camara

    Boy raping is very common in Afganistan, but not by the Taliban. The two things that made the Taliban popular with the common people are that they didn't take bribes, and they didn't rape little boys. The local warlords were the guys into that.

    You can say the Taliban take a lot of wives, as young as 12, so they're tween girl rapers. But the Taliban hang boy rapers.

    , @The Alarmist
    @R.G. Camara

    Do you think our elites insisted on being in Afghanistan for bacha bazi tips and tricks?

    , @Gordo
    @R.G. Camara


    The Taliban can’t find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.
     
    No, no the boy-raping dope dealers were our allies, now coming to a town near you.
    , @Bill Jones
    @R.G. Camara


    boy-raping dope dealers
     
    Isn't that the CIA's job description?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Partic
    @R.G. Camara

    It's my understanding the Taliban, when last in power, cracked down on man/boy sex.
    Is this wrong?

    , @Dale Entwhistle
    @R.G. Camara

    Actually, to be fair, the boy raping and even the drug dealing come even more from the other side. Not that I support the Taliban, but then I'm not Afghan so it's not really my business who's in charge there. I just don't want a lot of them over here.

  8. @Colin Wright
    'Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps.'

    It's interesting looking at what the Romans had instead what we would call maps. More like flow charts; 'to get to Marseilles from Rome, go to Bologna and turn left.'

    I find it somehow hard to grasp that they might have had little idea of the shape of Italy, for example. I can't even think of Italy without seeing the image of its map in my head -- but if I showed that image to a Roman and told him it was what Italy looked like, he'd think I had a screw loose. For some reason, I was showing him a drawing (and the Romans could draw perfectly well) of what appeared to be a bone with a lot of the meat still on and claiming it was Italy.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @El Dato, @Muggles, @Hypnotoad666

    It’s also interesting that Roman engineers didn’t have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @Simon Tugmutton
    @R.G. Camara

    There may well be people posting on the internet who believe the Roman engineers were instructed by aliens. I do not have the will to look into this myself, but I might sell the idea to Graham Hancock.

    Replies: @meh

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    , @Ralph L
    @R.G. Camara

    They very carefully removed evidence of their centuries of failures. Prestige is worth two legions among the barbarians.

    , @Eric Novak
    @R.G. Camara

    No differential and integral calc, but they did have Greek mathematics and physics and endless numbers of slaves to make up for material and design inefficiencies.

    Replies: @very old statistician

  9. @R.G. Camara
    @Colin Wright

    It's also interesting that Roman engineers didn't have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton, @Bardon Kaldian, @Ralph L, @Eric Novak

    There may well be people posting on the internet who believe the Roman engineers were instructed by aliens. I do not have the will to look into this myself, but I might sell the idea to Graham Hancock.

    • Replies: @meh
    @Simon Tugmutton


    There may well be people posting on the internet who believe the Roman engineers were instructed by aliens. I do not have the will to look into this myself, but I might sell the idea to Graham Hancock.
     
    Graham Hancock does not believe in or sell the idea of ancient aliens, people love strawmanning him on this because it's easier than arguing with what he is actually saying.

    Speaking of ancient maps...

    https://www.amazon.com/Maps-Ancient-Sea-Kings-Civilization/dp/0932813429

    We do have plenty of direct and indirect evidence of ancient map making, but few maps survive and people tended to guard accurate maps as state and/or commercial secrets, back in the day. Ancient libraries tended to get looted, burned, or dispersed over time and maps were part of their store of knowledge.

    Speaking of men and ability to use maps, I've noticed my own map reading ability decline somewhat since coming to rely on GPS, and I had the advantage of growing up in the 1970s when boy scouts and cub scouts were taught to use a map and compass to navigate off trail through the woods. That training and having a male mind does wonders for being able to visualize what a map is trying to represent. I have no idea what kind of map training boys get now in the age of wokeism but it can't be good.
  10. Taliban official is asked to find Bin Laden on a late “Bin Laden” tape. He’s no idea.

    Pakistani official is asked to find Bin Laden’s “compound” on a map. He’s no idea.

    US official is asked to find Bin Laden’s burying place on a map. He’s no idea.

    This could go on for some time.

    “You know, on the WWW, we have room for both.”

    That was a good call.

  11. @Anon
    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alfa158, @Achmed E. Newman, @Gordo, @Mike_from_SGV

    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Can any man follow the directions from that Google Map’s bitch’s voice emanating from the tablet? It’s not Alexa, but may as well be. I want to smash the thing, but I was reared never to hit a girl.

    • LOL: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Charon
    @Reg Cæsar

    I knew a guy with a crap sense of direction, who relied upon his GPS to get around, but he was gay. I also knew a gay guy with perfect positioning sense. So who knows?

    I will say it was fun to see the first guy follow the directions perfectly, when the directions were anything but perfect.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Reg Cæsar

    How about being taught to never defenestrate a girl, Reg? Of course, I mean the phone, but yeah, phone direction apps, you've come a long way, baby! How 'bout another few feet, out past the shoulder into the woods?!

    , @El Dato
    @Reg Cæsar

    Is it "Google Maps in Furs"?

    I remember a joke from an 80s MAD Magazine where they predicted the car telling you about various problems like unfastened seatbelt, full ashtray (!), etc...

    "Okay, car. Okay, car. OKAY, car!. SHUT THE FUCK UP, CAR!"

  12. @Anon
    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alfa158, @Achmed E. Newman, @Gordo, @Mike_from_SGV

    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination. Having GPS systems that give verbal instructions on where to turn have been a godsend for her. If she looks at the display at all, she’ll bring up the screen with the list of directions.
    I’ve never met another man who is quite as bad at map-reading and directions as many women are.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Alfa158

    This GPS culture is so bad that people no longer have any situation awareness.

    I "get" the advantage of an "itinerary" over a map. The turn left, turn right, go 5 miles is what you actually do when driving.

    A GPS isn't even an itinerary -- it is a back-seat driver. I have relied on both a GPS and a back-side driver to call out turns. When I drive that way, I get to having no idea where I am, let alone how to reproduce the route without that aid.

    , @Twinkie
    @Alfa158


    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination.
     
    My wife has a doctorate in STEMM and she still can't read a map. And I have tried to teach her land navigation for decades!

    Years ago (a couple decades ago actually), we were visiting Seattle, and I was driving. My wife was supposed to be navigating with a map. After I reached a certain waypoint, I asked my wife, "What's next?" Her response was, "Um, uh, oh, ah... Just head toward the water!"

    I looked at her with that "mild astonishment" look and said, "There is water in three directions - north, east, and west. We are on a small peninsula." She just smiled uncomfortably. I took the map from her and drove and navigated the rest of the way.

    Even now, she still occasionally tries to "correct" me when I drive. I am old enough to understand this game now, so I don't argue and just follow what she says. Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, "Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?"

    Replies: @El Dato, @kaganovitch, @Bill Jones

  13. @JohnnyWalker123
    23% of Americans can find Iran on a map.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/can-you-find-iran-on-a-map/

    Replies: @Charon, @Hannah Katz, @Rob

    That’s about how many it’s possible to have a reasonably intelligent conversation with, too. On a very good day, I mean.

    You want to have some sort of high-level exchange, it’s more like one to two percent.

    Who was the last American president with whom you’d enjoy an abstract or theoretical conversation?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Charon

    Slick Willy was the last president with an IQ over 115

  14. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.
     
    Can any man follow the directions from that Google Map's bitch's voice emanating from the tablet? It's not Alexa, but may as well be. I want to smash the thing, but I was reared never to hit a girl.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman, @El Dato

    I knew a guy with a crap sense of direction, who relied upon his GPS to get around, but he was gay. I also knew a gay guy with perfect positioning sense. So who knows?

    I will say it was fun to see the first guy follow the directions perfectly, when the directions were anything but perfect.

  15. @Colin Wright
    'Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps.'

    It's interesting looking at what the Romans had instead what we would call maps. More like flow charts; 'to get to Marseilles from Rome, go to Bologna and turn left.'

    I find it somehow hard to grasp that they might have had little idea of the shape of Italy, for example. I can't even think of Italy without seeing the image of its map in my head -- but if I showed that image to a Roman and told him it was what Italy looked like, he'd think I had a screw loose. For some reason, I was showing him a drawing (and the Romans could draw perfectly well) of what appeared to be a bone with a lot of the meat still on and claiming it was Italy.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @El Dato, @Muggles, @Hypnotoad666

    An interesting point.

    I guess “maps” had to be invented the same way as our concept of “time”. The cloud of locations and points had to be transformed from an incomplete graph of events or graph of places with relative relationships like “comes 5 years after” or “is 15 days’ march to the west of” into points on absolute background canvas in which everything that can be located and everything that happens can in principle be seamlessly recorded (though quantum mechanics has thrown a big spanner into this primitive picture as not only is an infinite amount of stuff happening at every single moment but also only a finite amount of it is recorded with any attempt are making things too newtonianically precise hidden behind a veil of imprecision, so … back to graphs? but which graphs?)

    Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using “grid cells” is progressing

    2014-10: Brain’s Positioning System Linked to Memory: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to three researchers who discovered how the brain navigates the world. Their work may also help illuminate how the mind stores memories.

    2016-01: New Clues to How the Brain Maps Time: The same brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time. The research suggests that our thoughts may take place on a mental space-time canvas.

    2019-01: The Brain Maps Out Ideas and Memories Like Spaces: merging evidence suggests that the brain encodes abstract knowledge in the same way that it represents positions in space, which hints at a more universal theory of cognition.

    2019-10: Goals and Rewards Redraw the Brain’s Map of the World: Two new studies show that the brain’s navigation system changes how it represents physical space to reflect personal experience.

    2021-10: How Animals Map 3D Spaces Surprises Brain Researchers: When animals move through 3D spaces, the neat system of grid cell activity they use for navigating on flat surfaces gets more disorderly. That has implications for some ideas about memory and other processes.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @El Dato

    Maybe the Romans maneuvered via landmarks and time. Like: "go to the mountain three days' north of the cluster of lakes in the valley that's two day's march from X town."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    , @Colin Wright
    @El Dato

    'Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using “grid cells” is progressing'

    Since you've brought it up, one thing that fascinates me is that if I have to set the alarm to get up at some inhuman hour, I'll often wake up five minutes before it's set to go off. I can customarily awake about eight am, set the alarm for six am -- and I'll awake at 5:55 am.

    How can my brain do that? I can see it tracking time in some sort of vague biological way: 'we've been sitting here for quite a while.'

    But how can it track time with such mechanical precision? I can't formulate any convincing hypothesis.

    Replies: @bomag

  16. @Altai
    Also in TikTok news.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1450117732817637383

    The destabilising force of teenage girls on political discourse since around 2013 is the proximate cause of the Great Awokening.

    https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1449499150417022982

    Teenage girls watch TikTokers with Tourette's. They subsequently present with Tourette's. Social contagion and attention-seeking imitation.

    And you just handed those same cohorts the power of who is and isn't 'okay' in politics and society. As well as having tens if not hundreds of thousands of them mutilated and pumped full Lupron and testosterone.

    Well done, 'adults in the room'.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @MEH 0910

    In spite of (christian? cartesian? enlighenment? kantian?) idea of humans-as-islands, they are not. NATO recently declaring the “brain” as a future battlefield is just another sign that we all know that. Get ready for full meme attack via CNN newsticker. Maybe their “next stuff” will be more containable than the Rona.

    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?

    • Replies: @Altai
    @El Dato


    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?
     
    It's full of teenage girls. Just like Tumblr. Except whereas Tumblr only had a small subset of teenage girls as a potential target of group socialisation, TikTok has all of them not unlike Twitter. (Except whereas they were power-users on Twitter, they were hardly the only ones there, TikTok has few users who were born before 1995.)

    And TikTok's system of response TikTok's makes it perfect for Jon Stewart style sneering. (Speaking of which, apparently he has gone so twitchy like Sen Schumer that he went on standup recently and bombed.)

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

  17. @R.G. Camara
    @Colin Wright

    It's also interesting that Roman engineers didn't have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton, @Bardon Kaldian, @Ralph L, @Eric Novak

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Kind of looks like subway maps.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Reminds me of the maps that comedian Terry Jones (of Monty Python fame) highlighted in his excellent little miniseries The Great Map Mystery.

    https://www.maproomblog.com/tag/john-ogilby/

    The maps were by John Ogilby from the 17th century. Jones became a collector of maps as he aged. Jones, all by his lonesome, figured out that Ogilby's maps of England and Wales were deliberately straight lined and weird because Ogilby had been secretly commissioned by Catholics to create maps that directed potential invading Catholic troops to either major centers of Catholic support or else places of interest to an invading army (e.g. mines or ports easy to invade into).

    The miniseries-documentary starring Jones (I think his last public outing before dementia kicked in and he retired) was a nice combination of travelogue and intellectual nerdiness explained well, all with Jones's wit. A good afternoon watch.

    , @Twinkie
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The ancient Chinese also had maps that were waypoint-based, rather than cartographically accurate, which were obviously designed for travel and navigation rather than getting a good bird's eye-view of the world, but as early as the 12th century, they seemed to have come up with a cartographically accurate approach to mapping, complete with grids: https://www.viewofchina.com/ancient-chinese-maps/

    https://i1.wp.com/www.viewofchina.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/map-nealiest-grid.jpg?w=880&ssl=1

    , @res
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Thanks. I thought this post linked there was particularly good.
    http://ianjamesross.com/journal/2016/8/24/did-the-romans-have-maps

    I find it interesting that they had detailed city plans but not maps of larger areas. Were there any nautical charts?

    Wikipedia (citing Bowditch) claims "Nautical charts and textual descriptions known as sailing directions have been in use in one form or another since the sixth century BC.[14]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation#Mediterranean

    This looks like a better reference though.
    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44175/44175-h/44175-h.htm


    The early Greek and Roman writers do not allude to charts or maps intended especially for the use of seafarers. There are, however, extant several peripli or descriptions of the coast. Some of these appear certainly to have been intended for use as nautical guides, corresponding to the modern sailing directions. It is probable that they were explanatory of or accompanied by coast charts, now lost. They are of interest therefore as being probably the first compilations for the guidance of seamen.
     
    P.S. I chased down the Bowditch reference. The relevant parts.

    Charts probably existed as early as 600 B.C.
    ...
    Sailing Directions or pilots have existed since at least the 6th century B.C.

     

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @obwandiyag
    @Bardon Kaldian

    That's a medieval map. Of a Roman itinerary.

  18. @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    Kind of looks like subway maps.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Steve Sailer

    Considering that the Greeks figured out geometry, it's probably only sheer chance that they didn't invent maps. After having given plane and solid geometry to the world, I daresay they'd have been pretty good at mere cartography.

    On the other hand, in a the very sparsely inhabited landscapes of Roman times, there probably wasn't much need for accurate two-dimensional maps, since much of the land between inhabited points was wilderness anyway.

    Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Graham

    , @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

  19. Governments still publish Sailing Directions, which are, among other things, verbal descriptions of every port on earth

  20. Anon[484] • Disclaimer says:

    The Romans had peripluses, which were port-by-port guides to voyages and stopover points, going as far as halfway down east Africa, all around the Black Sea, and around the tip of India to Ceylon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periplus

    They also had road trip maps giving similar information about cities and towns that you’d pass while travelling on various Roman roads. These were written linearly or in a switch back pattern, without much regard to distances or relative geographical location.

    In pre-Roman Alexandria Claudius Ptolemy wrote his “Geography” that included world and Mediterranean maps. Ptolemy invented longitude and latitude and two forms of map projections. This information plus an appendix containing locations with their coordinates allowed people in the Middle Ages to reconstruct Ptolemy’s maps, which unlike the text itself had been lost.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_(Ptolemy)

    • Thanks: PiltdownMan, res, TWS
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The Auto Club booklets for cross-country trips were similarly linear.

    Replies: @epebble, @Aspiring Wrapper

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    Ptolemy, born 100 AD, was in Roman Alexandria.

    There probably were maps in pre-Roman Alexandria. In particular, Eratosthenes, 400 years earlier, must have made a detailed map of Egypt to measure the size of the degree latitude. Strabo seems to say that Eratosthenes made a map of the world.

  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Kind of looks like subway maps.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo

    Considering that the Greeks figured out geometry, it’s probably only sheer chance that they didn’t invent maps. After having given plane and solid geometry to the world, I daresay they’d have been pretty good at mere cartography.

    On the other hand, in a the very sparsely inhabited landscapes of Roman times, there probably wasn’t much need for accurate two-dimensional maps, since much of the land between inhabited points was wilderness anyway.

    Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @PiltdownMan

    > Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    I don't want to apply the Disagree tag to your comments very often, Mr. Man. But it seems to me that "of no material interest" isn't correct, when one considers military conflicts.

    Which the Romans engaged in, now and then.

    Jumping ahead a couple of millenia, I could plausibly argue that Lee caused the Union so much grief because he was better at reading maps, and at integrating that information into his plans. This combination of skill and imagination manifested itself to the Federal side when gray soldiers popped up out of nowhere, at the most inconvenient times and places.

    My prior would be that the great generals of classical times, from Hannibal to Belisarius, were great because they were effective at doing much the same (among other things).

    How the invention and spread of the map (as we know it) factors into this -- that's a fascinating question. I appreciate the links to source material that a few other commenters have supplied.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anon

    , @Graham
    @PiltdownMan

    The Greeks did have maps. See the play The Clouds by Aristophanes, in which Strepsiades is shown a map for the first time and recoils in fear because Sparta, the enemy of Athens, seems to be so close to Athens, his city. For that to be funny the audience must have known what maps were.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  22. @Anon
    The Romans had peripluses, which were port-by-port guides to voyages and stopover points, going as far as halfway down east Africa, all around the Black Sea, and around the tip of India to Ceylon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periplus

    They also had road trip maps giving similar information about cities and towns that you'd pass while travelling on various Roman roads. These were written linearly or in a switch back pattern, without much regard to distances or relative geographical location.

    In pre-Roman Alexandria Claudius Ptolemy wrote his "Geography" that included world and Mediterranean maps. Ptolemy invented longitude and latitude and two forms of map projections. This information plus an appendix containing locations with their coordinates allowed people in the Middle Ages to reconstruct Ptolemy's maps, which unlike the text itself had been lost.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_(Ptolemy)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    The Auto Club booklets for cross-country trips were similarly linear.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Steve Sailer

    In Computerese, these linear maps are known as Vector Graphics. This is how PostScript (the language used in PDF files) stores all the text and graphics. If you scale a PDF file by 40 times, you can still see the letters beautifully. You can't do that if it were a photographic magnification (like in a Xerox machine). All the dots will show up and the picture will look grainy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics

    , @Aspiring Wrapper
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember these. The ones from AAA were called "triptiks". I think the local office personnel who created them even highlighted the intended route.

  23. @El Dato
    @Altai

    In spite of (christian? cartesian? enlighenment? kantian?) idea of humans-as-islands, they are not. NATO recently declaring the "brain" as a future battlefield is just another sign that we all know that. Get ready for full meme attack via CNN newsticker. Maybe their "next stuff" will be more containable than the Rona.

    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?

    Replies: @Altai

    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?

    It’s full of teenage girls. Just like Tumblr. Except whereas Tumblr only had a small subset of teenage girls as a potential target of group socialisation, TikTok has all of them not unlike Twitter. (Except whereas they were power-users on Twitter, they were hardly the only ones there, TikTok has few users who were born before 1995.)

    And TikTok’s system of response TikTok’s makes it perfect for Jon Stewart style sneering. (Speaking of which, apparently he has gone so twitchy like Sen Schumer that he went on standup recently and bombed.)

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Altai

    Hard to believe Stewart bombed. I hate the man and all his poisonous marxist propaganda and Obama Defense Team-ism, but having seen him live several times, I can say the guy was a master at reading an audience and working them during his Daily Show days. But perhaps age and Wokeism have finally caught up with him.

    Replies: @Altai

  24. @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    Reminds me of the maps that comedian Terry Jones (of Monty Python fame) highlighted in his excellent little miniseries The Great Map Mystery.

    https://www.maproomblog.com/tag/john-ogilby/

    The maps were by John Ogilby from the 17th century. Jones became a collector of maps as he aged. Jones, all by his lonesome, figured out that Ogilby’s maps of England and Wales were deliberately straight lined and weird because Ogilby had been secretly commissioned by Catholics to create maps that directed potential invading Catholic troops to either major centers of Catholic support or else places of interest to an invading army (e.g. mines or ports easy to invade into).

    The miniseries-documentary starring Jones (I think his last public outing before dementia kicked in and he retired) was a nice combination of travelogue and intellectual nerdiness explained well, all with Jones’s wit. A good afternoon watch.

    • Thanks: ic1000, res
  25. @Altai
    @El Dato


    But why is TikTok so particularly toxic?
     
    It's full of teenage girls. Just like Tumblr. Except whereas Tumblr only had a small subset of teenage girls as a potential target of group socialisation, TikTok has all of them not unlike Twitter. (Except whereas they were power-users on Twitter, they were hardly the only ones there, TikTok has few users who were born before 1995.)

    And TikTok's system of response TikTok's makes it perfect for Jon Stewart style sneering. (Speaking of which, apparently he has gone so twitchy like Sen Schumer that he went on standup recently and bombed.)

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Hard to believe Stewart bombed. I hate the man and all his poisonous marxist propaganda and Obama Defense Team-ism, but having seen him live several times, I can say the guy was a master at reading an audience and working them during his Daily Show days. But perhaps age and Wokeism have finally caught up with him.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @R.G. Camara

    He has become too deranged for normies, he has dropped the 'Stewart' mask. If you weren't born in NYC into a certain kind of family between 1940-1965, you don't empathise with him anymore.

  26. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    They beat the shit out of the boy raping dope dealers and the US.

    Stop defaming your enemies. Often they are bad enough without anglo-american lies, and often you get confused yourself — as in this case.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @byrresheim

    There is a young man in Afghanistan who is going around raping drug traffickers?

    There must be a missing hyphen in there, someplace?

    , @Wade Hampton
    @byrresheim

    The Afghan Taliban are not America's enemies.

    Globalists (i.e. Neocons, the Party of Davos, reptiles like Bush the Dumber and Bill Kristol) consider the Afghan Taliban their enemy because they won't adopt the globo-homo culture of atheism, sexual degeneracy, deracination (i.e. lack of attachment to their blood and soil), etc.

    I don't think the Taliban care about Neocons other than to hold them in contempt, because they were able frustrate the globalists' goals for the past 20 years. If the Afghans can do it, so should Americans be able to.

  27. Me: “You know, on the WWW, we have room for both.”

    With that sort of smart-ass attitude, it’s little wonder you’re working out of your closet at home now. I can’t even!

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  28. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    Boy raping is very common in Afganistan, but not by the Taliban. The two things that made the Taliban popular with the common people are that they didn’t take bribes, and they didn’t rape little boys. The local warlords were the guys into that.

    You can say the Taliban take a lot of wives, as young as 12, so they’re tween girl rapers. But the Taliban hang boy rapers.

    • Thanks: notsaying
  29. @Anon
    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alfa158, @Achmed E. Newman, @Gordo, @Mike_from_SGV

    Right!

    I do know a certain boy who could be taught to read a map at 6 y/o. I missed a turn on a 200 mile road trip and got him to put me on an alternate routing from the back seat. In the meantime, the boy’s Mom, on another occasion, having gone the simple way – with only 6 turns – to the judo place already 4 or 5 times, had run out of the monthly data plan on her phone (due to the boy having used it for something or other) and went ahead and paid \$4.95 to get her app back in business to guide her to Judo.

    “C;mon, Mama, it’s so simple! Whaddya’ need, refresher data? It’s all maps nowadays!”.

  30. @R.G. Camara
    @Altai

    Hard to believe Stewart bombed. I hate the man and all his poisonous marxist propaganda and Obama Defense Team-ism, but having seen him live several times, I can say the guy was a master at reading an audience and working them during his Daily Show days. But perhaps age and Wokeism have finally caught up with him.

    Replies: @Altai

    He has become too deranged for normies, he has dropped the ‘Stewart’ mask. If you weren’t born in NYC into a certain kind of family between 1940-1965, you don’t empathise with him anymore.

    • Thanks: R.G. Camara
  31. @Redneck farmer
    Does the woman now work for Google Maps?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    That is even funnier, Redneck, with regard to the new phone apps. My wife will turn them on a few times when I have gotten lazy or it is worth using (on a long road trip at night, diverting to a certain store well off the route to get a birthday cake, for example).

    Have you heard the sound from these things lately? I really believe the software developers were told by marketing to turn this into a NWA. (That’s Nagging Wife App.) I mean, you get told 3 times coming up to a turn about making sure to keep right, it’s coming soon, etc. Both me and my boy kept going “OK, we got it!”

    This WILL be a blog post on Peak Stupidity. Thanks for the reminder.

    [EDIT: Just saw Reg’s comment. DITTO!]

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I love it when they confuse the direction you need to go. One plant we deliver to I ended up driving past, because I needed to keep left instead of going right. Or go slightly left at the crossroads, instead of go North on Rt. 28. Not fun when you're trying to make a deadline in a state you've never been in.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  32. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.
     
    Can any man follow the directions from that Google Map's bitch's voice emanating from the tablet? It's not Alexa, but may as well be. I want to smash the thing, but I was reared never to hit a girl.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman, @El Dato

    How about being taught to never defenestrate a girl, Reg? Of course, I mean the phone, but yeah, phone direction apps, you’ve come a long way, baby! How ’bout another few feet, out past the shoulder into the woods?!

  33. Off Topic:

    Here’s a great article about the aftermath of illegal basement apartment flooding in Queens during Hurricane Ida last month that killed about a dozen people. It turns out there are a lot more poor and often illegal Asians than you thought there, including Koreans. It also turns out there are a lot more indignant Asians complaining about what America and New York City owes them than I realized.

    If you have ever wondered if illegal immigrants can put in for and receive FEMA benefits, here is your chance to find out.

    It has been really something to contemplate for the last hour how on Earth we got stuck with all these people, how much they will cost us and then remember all those people coming in down in Mexico who will never leave, either.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/idas-basement-flood-victims-were-190822755.html

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @notsaying


    It turns out there are a lot more poor and often illegal Asians than you thought there, including Koreans. It also turns out there are a lot more indignant Asians complaining about what America and New York City owes them than I realized.
     
    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  34. @Altai
    Also in TikTok news.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1450117732817637383

    The destabilising force of teenage girls on political discourse since around 2013 is the proximate cause of the Great Awokening.

    https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1449499150417022982

    Teenage girls watch TikTokers with Tourette's. They subsequently present with Tourette's. Social contagion and attention-seeking imitation.

    And you just handed those same cohorts the power of who is and isn't 'okay' in politics and society. As well as having tens if not hundreds of thousands of them mutilated and pumped full Lupron and testosterone.

    Well done, 'adults in the room'.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @MEH 0910

    “Kayla—who years earlier had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder”

    What were the incidences of such “disorders” in, say, the 1950s?

    I would imagine that few 17 year old girls in Afghanistan are presenting with Tourette’s. Breech presentation is a more likely worry.

    https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/guidelines/gtg20b/

  35. @JohnnyWalker123
    23% of Americans can find Iran on a map.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/can-you-find-iran-on-a-map/

    Replies: @Charon, @Hannah Katz, @Rob

    The good news is that both Iran and Afghanistan are about as far away from us as you can get. Sadly, they and folks from the other Stans are now sneaking across our southern border. 🙁

  36. Anon[195] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    CRIME OCT. 18, 2021
    A Woman Was Raped on a Train While the Rest of the Car Watched
    https://www.thecut.com/2021/10/woman-raped-on-septa-train-while-other-passengers-watched.html

    Kitty Genovese redux?

    When a man raped a woman on a Pennsylvania train last week, a whole carful of people reportedly looked on without doing anything to help: Local police say none of the passengers attempted to intervene or called 911 during the roughly eight-minute attack….

    Although the woman tried to stop him, “he proceeded to rip her clothes off.” While Bernhardt did not specify exactly how many people stood by during the rape that followed — it wasn’t “dozens of people,” he said — he explained that surveillance footage indicated there were enough witnesses that “collectively, they could have gotten together and done something.”

    Here’s the problem with a Kitty Genovese comparison:

    1. The rapist was a black guy (surprise).

    2. Who is stupid enough to step into a situation where a black violent criminal is doing his thing? Will a knife or gun materialize? How are your grappling skills? He’s had practice, and you haven’t.

    3. Let’s say you stab or shoot the guy, or twist his arm so his basketball skills suffer. He’s black. You aren’t. All the black victims of police killings have been felons, and yet they end up being held up as heroes. You will be villainized, perhaps prosecuted, mobbed online, fired from your job, whatever. You stopped a rape, but the world is crazy now. Women just need to deal with black criminals on their own these days. Get a boyfriend or husband and don’t go out without him. There’s no percentage in it for strangers to help.

    4. Many years ago I pushed the alarm button on BART when a crazy schitzo black guy got on the train. At the next stop he was escorted off. When the doors closed I was the target of a lot of hostile glares from black commuters. A black woman pulled out what looked like a cigarette lighter shaped like a gun and pointed it at me. I hoped it wasn’t a gun. So calling 911? Not a good idea.

    5. “Get together and do something”: That requires a leader to initiate it, and the leader becomes the target at that point of the perp or his racemates in the vicinity.

    Bernhardt reportedly said any of them who recorded the assault could face criminal charges too. He clarified, however, that it would be up to the Delaware County district attorney’s office to make that call and to decide what the charges might be.

    This sounds crazy, except that Pennsylvania has a hardcore two-party wiretapping law that they enforce with a vengeance. But you have a right to film anything around you in public, I’d think.

    https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-recording-law

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Anon

    You are a coward.

    Replies: @Whiskey

  37. What about landmark-oriented directions? Like, “Make a hard right turn at the checkerboard ….”

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @The Alarmist

    That would be the old Hong Kong airport. I remember flying into there in the late eighties,people on their balconies just beyond the wingtips as you descended.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @The Alarmist

    Reminds me of the old joke about asking some local for directions: ". . . you make a left right after the spot where the old McKenzie place used to be . . ."

    , @PiltdownMan
    @The Alarmist

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/michael-bloomberg-us-needs-an-awful-lot-more-immigrants/#comment-3580874

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/michael-bloomberg-us-needs-an-awful-lot-more-immigrants/#comment-3581455

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/michael-bloomberg-us-needs-an-awful-lot-more-immigrants/#comment-3582444

  38. @Polistra

    “You know, on the WWW, we have room to have both.”
     
    Does anyone remember 1994-95, when the online population still skewed relatively intelligent? A bit nerdy, sure, but not clinically retarded yet? Here it is 2021 and we still have politicians talking about the "digital divide" and how we must devote some of our infinite trillions toward making sure every person has free broadband access? Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @TelfoedJohn, @J.Ross

    To your point, when getting on the Internet required typing commands at a command prompt, it generally required a modicum of intelligence in its users. The creation of the WWW made it possible both for the dumb to get on the net as well as for the net to be used to further dumb them down.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @The Alarmist

    Blame xerox. The mouse was their idea.

  39. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    Do you think our elites insisted on being in Afghanistan for bacha bazi tips and tricks?

  40. average map fan vs. average quaran enjoyer

  41. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.
     
    Can any man follow the directions from that Google Map's bitch's voice emanating from the tablet? It's not Alexa, but may as well be. I want to smash the thing, but I was reared never to hit a girl.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman, @El Dato

    Is it “Google Maps in Furs”?

    I remember a joke from an 80s MAD Magazine where they predicted the car telling you about various problems like unfastened seatbelt, full ashtray (!), etc…

    “Okay, car. Okay, car. OKAY, car!. SHUT THE FUCK UP, CAR!”

  42. @PiltdownMan
    @Steve Sailer

    Considering that the Greeks figured out geometry, it's probably only sheer chance that they didn't invent maps. After having given plane and solid geometry to the world, I daresay they'd have been pretty good at mere cartography.

    On the other hand, in a the very sparsely inhabited landscapes of Roman times, there probably wasn't much need for accurate two-dimensional maps, since much of the land between inhabited points was wilderness anyway.

    Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Graham

    > Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    I don’t want to apply the Disagree tag to your comments very often, Mr. Man. But it seems to me that “of no material interest” isn’t correct, when one considers military conflicts.

    Which the Romans engaged in, now and then.

    Jumping ahead a couple of millenia, I could plausibly argue that Lee caused the Union so much grief because he was better at reading maps, and at integrating that information into his plans. This combination of skill and imagination manifested itself to the Federal side when gray soldiers popped up out of nowhere, at the most inconvenient times and places.

    My prior would be that the great generals of classical times, from Hannibal to Belisarius, were great because they were effective at doing much the same (among other things).

    How the invention and spread of the map (as we know it) factors into this — that’s a fascinating question. I appreciate the links to source material that a few other commenters have supplied.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @ic1000

    Tangential here was our ability to easily run around the Iraq army in the first Gulf war via GPS. The Iraqis were shocked that we could easily navigate in the featureless desert. They couldn't conceive of moving large groups of soldiers in such a way.

    , @Anon
    @ic1000

    Lee was good because up until Meade and Grant, the Union generals sucked. Lee also had more talent underneath him than the Northern army in the Eastern theater did. In the West, the North had more talent than the south, which was why the Civil War began to be lost by the Confederates in the West.

    When the war started and the the various officer corps split, most of the services divided evenly--except for the topographical corps. Only 3 topographers went south, and all the rest went north. The north was much better off than the south was when it came to maps.

    After the Seven Days' Battles in front of Richmond, Confederate General D.H. Hill complained that there were places in central Africa that were better mapped than the immediate area outside the Confederate's own capital. Both Stonewall Jackson and 'Prince' John Magruder rather notoriously got entire divisions lost during those days, rendering themselves useless. Jackson found out the hard way that there was a difference between Old Cold Harbor and Cold Harbor, and Magruder didn't realize the road on his map spelled Enroughty was the one everyone was calling 'Darby.'

    As for Hannibal, he conquered because of his profound grasp of logistics. Getting elephants over the Alps was no mean feat, and he was able to keep his army in Italy for 15 years living off the land without being starved out because of mastery of logistics. Armies back in that era were prone to being starved out.

    Replies: @res, @Polistra

  43. @Anon
    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alfa158, @Achmed E. Newman, @Gordo, @Mike_from_SGV

    Some years ago, before satnavs, my wife and I drove across Germany, she drove because she couldn’t read the map. Nightmare as her driving wasn’t better than her map reading.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Gordo

    The road signs in Germany and Switzerland are destinations, not cardinal directions. For example A81 Richtung (direction) Stuttgart, not A81 North. My favorite is leaving a town by the Alle Richtungen - all directions. Could be leaving the south side of town and want to go north! This is the way!

  44. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    The Taliban can’t find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    No, no the boy-raping dope dealers were our allies, now coming to a town near you.

  45. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Kind of looks like subway maps.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo

    Yes, reminds me of Beck’s London Underground map.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Gordo

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1450300399274000393

    Replies: @Anonymous, @res

    , @El Dato
    @Gordo

    It's a graph, rather than a map.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Gordo

    Here's the subway system in Peking. Since having a scale on maps seems to be another lost common-sense idea (yeah, I know, it's a schematic), to give you perspective, that outer loop (light blue) is about 35 miles long, meaning E-W on the northern segment is ~ 10 miles

    Now, here's a good sense-of-direction/map/language barrier story: I was coming from near the smaller ("Capital City", I think?) airport in Peking, China, and I went down into that subway to catch that light blue outer loop train to go around and catch that gray one on the NE toward the big airport. I knew one way (CCW or CW) was closer than the other.

    The problem is, that I'd taken a couple of turns while going down into the station. I usually am good in a big store, etc. to know which way is still which. Was it due to going down? I don't know if I had known where I was with respect to North, i.e. which side (inside/outside) of that loop I was to begin with, even before I came down there.

    Now came the MASSIVE language barrier. They had this diagram all over. They had the two "end points" (I guess just the places you'd likely be going) for one way and the other. Those points were in Chinese characters! No, I don't blame them a bit, but to trying to match up one or the other set of squiggles with all the squiggles on that line ... well, a train came one way before I was successful at that pattern matching, so I got on it. Yeah, I made it home.

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/Peking_Subway_Map.jpg

    , @Expletive Deleted
    @Gordo

    I think he cobbed the idea from electrical and early electronics schematics.

    (Damn. Now I'll have to go off into fathomless interwebs rabbit holes to stand this assertion up).

    Replies: @Gordo

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Gordo

    When I stayed between Kilburn Park and Maida Vale and worked between Earl's Court and Gloucester Road, it was quicker to commute by two buses than by two train lines. Even at night, when buses were sparser.

    You can kind of guess that from the diagram, but it's muted. It was really obvious on a map.

  46. He probably couldn’t name any more than two sexes either.

  47. @ic1000
    @PiltdownMan

    > Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    I don't want to apply the Disagree tag to your comments very often, Mr. Man. But it seems to me that "of no material interest" isn't correct, when one considers military conflicts.

    Which the Romans engaged in, now and then.

    Jumping ahead a couple of millenia, I could plausibly argue that Lee caused the Union so much grief because he was better at reading maps, and at integrating that information into his plans. This combination of skill and imagination manifested itself to the Federal side when gray soldiers popped up out of nowhere, at the most inconvenient times and places.

    My prior would be that the great generals of classical times, from Hannibal to Belisarius, were great because they were effective at doing much the same (among other things).

    How the invention and spread of the map (as we know it) factors into this -- that's a fascinating question. I appreciate the links to source material that a few other commenters have supplied.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anon

    Tangential here was our ability to easily run around the Iraq army in the first Gulf war via GPS. The Iraqis were shocked that we could easily navigate in the featureless desert. They couldn’t conceive of moving large groups of soldiers in such a way.

  48. That’s another favorite post just because I LUV LUV LUV Geography.

    Your remark on the www (Small letters. C’mon, man!) was not snark but a great point. Were this a paper brochure, the recurring costs would be larger for an additional page, or both directions and the map would have to be smaller – not the case for the web.*

    How “mid”-1990s was this? If that was 95, you all were ahead of the game. In ’97, “Everybody’s doing it! Now, make me some of those animated .gifs, dammit!”

    Back to the point, bing or google maps now are easy to embed for business, etc. websites, but those directions are often worthless. It all depends on where one is starting from, and they often assume a whole lot about that.

  49. @notsaying
    Off Topic:

    Here's a great article about the aftermath of illegal basement apartment flooding in Queens during Hurricane Ida last month that killed about a dozen people. It turns out there are a lot more poor and often illegal Asians than you thought there, including Koreans. It also turns out there are a lot more indignant Asians complaining about what America and New York City owes them than I realized.

    If you have ever wondered if illegal immigrants can put in for and receive FEMA benefits, here is your chance to find out.

    It has been really something to contemplate for the last hour how on Earth we got stuck with all these people, how much they will cost us and then remember all those people coming in down in Mexico who will never leave, either.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/idas-basement-flood-victims-were-190822755.html

    Replies: @Brutusale

    It turns out there are a lot more poor and often illegal Asians than you thought there, including Koreans. It also turns out there are a lot more indignant Asians complaining about what America and New York City owes them than I realized.

    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Brutusale


    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.
     
    Yeah, but the IQ distribution is not the same among the Chinese and the Indians. Or among whites and blacks, for that matter.

    I am not one of those people who think that "the smart fraction" is everything, but it has societal implications and the smart fraction varies in size and composition relative to the general public among different peoples.

    For our American context, though, things are a bit different. Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country and Indian immigration, in general, has exploded in the past two decades. So expect to run into a lot more high IQ Indians in America now and in the future.

    Whether having this new alien overlord class that has the lowest assimilation index among major Asian immigrant groups is a good thing or not for other Americans, I leave to your imagination.

    What I often find odd is a long-standing positive bias Mr. Sailer seems to have toward Indians (especially compared to East Asians). Contrary to all evidence, Mr. Sailer seems to have long thought Indians more politically conservative, assimilative, etc. (down to believing they donate more to their American almae matres), because they are "more loquacious" or something.

    Replies: @res

  50. One more thing about the women v men thing and spatial orientation. Could it not be harder for women to use maps based on their having not as good perspective? For example, I missed the famous BBQ joint, so I pulled into the gas station, knowing it had to be on this road somewhere.

    “Oh, yeah it’s back the way you came about 10 miles.” Criminy, that was about where I got on the road! Nope, REDACTED was 2 miles back (and closed that day, BTW!). If you’ve walked 2 miles before in your life and you’ve walked 10 miles before, you know the difference. How can one mistake 2 miles for 10? That’s part of the problem.

    Maps rock! Apps suck!

  51. I don’t know if they invented them, but they had maps. There’s a humorous scene in Aristophanes’ “Clouds” in which a clueless oldster is shown a map for the first time and has no idea how it is supposed to work.

  52. @Alfa158
    @Anon

    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination. Having GPS systems that give verbal instructions on where to turn have been a godsend for her. If she looks at the display at all, she’ll bring up the screen with the list of directions.
    I’ve never met another man who is quite as bad at map-reading and directions as many women are.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Twinkie

    This GPS culture is so bad that people no longer have any situation awareness.

    I “get” the advantage of an “itinerary” over a map. The turn left, turn right, go 5 miles is what you actually do when driving.

    A GPS isn’t even an itinerary — it is a back-seat driver. I have relied on both a GPS and a back-side driver to call out turns. When I drive that way, I get to having no idea where I am, let alone how to reproduce the route without that aid.

  53. @byrresheim
    @R.G. Camara

    They beat the shit out of the boy raping dope dealers and the US.

    Stop defaming your enemies. Often they are bad enough without anglo-american lies, and often you get confused yourself -- as in this case.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Wade Hampton

    There is a young man in Afghanistan who is going around raping drug traffickers?

    There must be a missing hyphen in there, someplace?

  54. Anonymous[141] • Disclaimer says:
  55. @Altai
    Also in TikTok news.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1450117732817637383

    The destabilising force of teenage girls on political discourse since around 2013 is the proximate cause of the Great Awokening.

    https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1449499150417022982

    Teenage girls watch TikTokers with Tourette's. They subsequently present with Tourette's. Social contagion and attention-seeking imitation.

    And you just handed those same cohorts the power of who is and isn't 'okay' in politics and society. As well as having tens if not hundreds of thousands of them mutilated and pumped full Lupron and testosterone.

    Well done, 'adults in the room'.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @MEH 0910

  56. @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @MEH 0910

    So Steve is a fan of the abstracted transit maps, e.g. the 1931 Tube map or the 1972 NYC subway map? I’m not a partisan on this because I appreciate the critics’ claim that, if I have this correctly, the time-space dilation introduces undesirable practical effects of mass ignorance at some point in the dysfunctional future. But obviously a more easily apprehended “clean” design is a superior design, if the telos is speedy adoption; I simply choose to view this not as a theological but rather a pragmatic policy. I actually would have heard out the delegation in that ridiculous “West Wing” episode where the Peters projection lobby showed up at the WH, though the boomerish presentation of them (mild-mannered academics) instead of what they would more likely constitute in reality (obnoxious unbathed diversity cranks) was of course offensive and discrediting to the entire conceit

    , @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. This looks like a decent overview of SLDs (Straight Line Diagrams).
    https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog855/node/782
    It references some neat tools for MA and VT highways. The MA tool is not loading now for some reason though.

  57. Turn left at the Walgreens.

    • Replies: @tr
    @Goatweed

    Watch out. If it's in San Francisco it may have just closed.

    (I love maps but hate to give directions. I'm afraid that I may say "Turn right. At the third light, turn left." and then half an hour later remember that fifteen years ago, they put in a fourth light in between the ones I counted.

  58. @Alfa158
    @Anon

    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination. Having GPS systems that give verbal instructions on where to turn have been a godsend for her. If she looks at the display at all, she’ll bring up the screen with the list of directions.
    I’ve never met another man who is quite as bad at map-reading and directions as many women are.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Twinkie

    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination.

    My wife has a doctorate in STEMM and she still can’t read a map. And I have tried to teach her land navigation for decades!

    Years ago (a couple decades ago actually), we were visiting Seattle, and I was driving. My wife was supposed to be navigating with a map. After I reached a certain waypoint, I asked my wife, “What’s next?” Her response was, “Um, uh, oh, ah… Just head toward the water!”

    I looked at her with that “mild astonishment” look and said, “There is water in three directions – north, east, and west. We are on a small peninsula.” She just smiled uncomfortably. I took the map from her and drove and navigated the rest of the way.

    Even now, she still occasionally tries to “correct” me when I drive. I am old enough to understand this game now, so I don’t argue and just follow what she says. Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Twinkie

    When you be in da ghetto and your wife tells you to do something

    https://youtu.be/GrQHPZrnbPk?t=47

    , @kaganovitch
    @Twinkie

    Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”

    Ah Twinkie, Faith and begorrah but yer a brave man.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Bill Jones
    @Twinkie


    “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”
     
    That's on a par with my referring to my spouse as "My first wife".

    It may be correct, but not wise.
  59. @Brutusale
    @notsaying


    It turns out there are a lot more poor and often illegal Asians than you thought there, including Koreans. It also turns out there are a lot more indignant Asians complaining about what America and New York City owes them than I realized.
     
    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.

    Yeah, but the IQ distribution is not the same among the Chinese and the Indians. Or among whites and blacks, for that matter.

    I am not one of those people who think that “the smart fraction” is everything, but it has societal implications and the smart fraction varies in size and composition relative to the general public among different peoples.

    For our American context, though, things are a bit different. Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country and Indian immigration, in general, has exploded in the past two decades. So expect to run into a lot more high IQ Indians in America now and in the future.

    Whether having this new alien overlord class that has the lowest assimilation index among major Asian immigrant groups is a good thing or not for other Americans, I leave to your imagination.

    What I often find odd is a long-standing positive bias Mr. Sailer seems to have toward Indians (especially compared to East Asians). Contrary to all evidence, Mr. Sailer seems to have long thought Indians more politically conservative, assimilative, etc. (down to believing they donate more to their American almae matres), because they are “more loquacious” or something.

    • Replies: @res
    @Twinkie

    In my experience the Indians who have thoroughly assimilated to British norms are quite pleasant. But there is substantial variation, and the clannishness of many is hard to take IMO.

    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to? Given the caste system in India I don't think the answer to that is simple.

    BTW, regarding "Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country." That was kind of my impression as well, but I just went and took a look at the IAB brain-drain data for US male immigrants in 2010
    https://www.iab.de/en/daten/iab-brain-drain-data.aspx

    It's hard to summarize the results (I started to and it just became too complicated), but given their three levels of education and looking at men in 2010 India appears to be in the midst of the highly selective group of countries. Nigeria makes a good comparison. It is a bit more selective, but has an eighth the number of immigrants as India.

    Note that their are separate spreadsheets for immigration and emigration. Really need to look at both.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

  60. @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

    It’s a graph, rather than a map.

  61. @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    The ancient Chinese also had maps that were waypoint-based, rather than cartographically accurate, which were obviously designed for travel and navigation rather than getting a good bird’s eye-view of the world, but as early as the 12th century, they seemed to have come up with a cartographically accurate approach to mapping, complete with grids: https://www.viewofchina.com/ancient-chinese-maps/

    • Thanks: Not Raul
  62. @Twinkie
    @Alfa158


    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination.
     
    My wife has a doctorate in STEMM and she still can't read a map. And I have tried to teach her land navigation for decades!

    Years ago (a couple decades ago actually), we were visiting Seattle, and I was driving. My wife was supposed to be navigating with a map. After I reached a certain waypoint, I asked my wife, "What's next?" Her response was, "Um, uh, oh, ah... Just head toward the water!"

    I looked at her with that "mild astonishment" look and said, "There is water in three directions - north, east, and west. We are on a small peninsula." She just smiled uncomfortably. I took the map from her and drove and navigated the rest of the way.

    Even now, she still occasionally tries to "correct" me when I drive. I am old enough to understand this game now, so I don't argue and just follow what she says. Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, "Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?"

    Replies: @El Dato, @kaganovitch, @Bill Jones

    When you be in da ghetto and your wife tells you to do something

  63. Hey, watch it! My Mother — of blessed memory — was a map-oholic and used to use her road map of England to plan various routes from our home in the NW London suburbs to our vacation in North Wales.

    • Replies: @tr
    @Christopher Chantrill

    How hard can that be? Start at the Marble Arch and take the A5.

  64. Black NHL player Evander Kane, who has been given every accommodation and benefit of the doubt possible through multiple scandals has been suspended for sending the league a fake Covid vaccine card. I speculated some NBA players might do this, it doesn’t seem like it would be hard for them to find a pharmacist to fill one out for them. I wonder if Kane’s was such a bad fake they couldn’t look the other way.

    https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/32425827/san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-suspended-21-games-nhl-established-violation-covid-19-protocol

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Barnard


    ...has been suspended for sending the league a fake Covid vaccine card.
     
    If that isn't white supremacism, what is?
  65. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @MEH 0910
    @Gordo

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1450300399274000393

    Replies: @Anonymous, @res

    So Steve is a fan of the abstracted transit maps, e.g. the 1931 Tube map or the 1972 NYC subway map? I’m not a partisan on this because I appreciate the critics’ claim that, if I have this correctly, the time-space dilation introduces undesirable practical effects of mass ignorance at some point in the dysfunctional future. But obviously a more easily apprehended “clean” design is a superior design, if the telos is speedy adoption; I simply choose to view this not as a theological but rather a pragmatic policy. I actually would have heard out the delegation in that ridiculous “West Wing” episode where the Peters projection lobby showed up at the WH, though the boomerish presentation of them (mild-mannered academics) instead of what they would more likely constitute in reality (obnoxious unbathed diversity cranks) was of course offensive and discrediting to the entire conceit

  66. Have any of you heard of or tried the North Paw? For those who don’t want to open a new tab, it’s an ankle band (an “anklet”) with a compass MEMS chip and a bunch of pager vibrators. It either constantly has the vibrator closest to north firing or it only buzzes you when you change direction.

    The point of the device is to give you an intuitive sense of direction. For those of us who don’t have it, that is a superpower.

    I would get everyone I know a North Paw for Christmas, but I think the dude just sells kits that require some soldering. I would think this would be a great Hammacher Schlemmer or Sharper Image product. Ideally, it would have a design that makes it clear that it’s not a court-ordered ankle monitor.

    In my experience, there are a lot more dudes who think they have a great sense of direction than have one. I for one, welcome our spatially aware overlords. I have hardly any.

    Some cultures use absolute direction. Like when a dude is describing his canoe going north will point north to indicate that, rather than just pointing forward. Or if two hotel rooms are identical to you and me, but one is rotated 90 degrees, they will think it has a different layout. Here we go, an article about peoples who don’t use egocentric directions..

    Right-wingers tend towards “cut down the rainforests for wood and raise cattle until the nutrients in the soul wash easy, and then cut down more forest to start the cycle anew. This does not necessarily apply to iStevers. We really do lose interesting things when cultures die. I am sure the military would love to find a way for special forces and fighter pilots to always know what direction they are facing. Someone should take one of those Aborigines up in a military jet and go all whirlygig, then see if the man still knows where north is. If he does, putting him in an fMRI might give us something interesting.

    • Agree: TelfoedJohn
  67. Anonymous[264] • Disclaimer says:

    I always “hated” maps until I was 27, when I moved to a new city. Shortly after moving there, I found a really user-friendly, fold-up, laminated map of my new city. On one side of it was a map of the whole city, but it lacked a lot of detail. On the other side was a close-up, more detailed map of the inner suburbs and downtown area. It was so easy to use and not intimidating. I became an excellent map reader from this great little map!

  68. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @ic1000
    @PiltdownMan

    > Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    I don't want to apply the Disagree tag to your comments very often, Mr. Man. But it seems to me that "of no material interest" isn't correct, when one considers military conflicts.

    Which the Romans engaged in, now and then.

    Jumping ahead a couple of millenia, I could plausibly argue that Lee caused the Union so much grief because he was better at reading maps, and at integrating that information into his plans. This combination of skill and imagination manifested itself to the Federal side when gray soldiers popped up out of nowhere, at the most inconvenient times and places.

    My prior would be that the great generals of classical times, from Hannibal to Belisarius, were great because they were effective at doing much the same (among other things).

    How the invention and spread of the map (as we know it) factors into this -- that's a fascinating question. I appreciate the links to source material that a few other commenters have supplied.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anon

    Lee was good because up until Meade and Grant, the Union generals sucked. Lee also had more talent underneath him than the Northern army in the Eastern theater did. In the West, the North had more talent than the south, which was why the Civil War began to be lost by the Confederates in the West.

    When the war started and the the various officer corps split, most of the services divided evenly–except for the topographical corps. Only 3 topographers went south, and all the rest went north. The north was much better off than the south was when it came to maps.

    After the Seven Days’ Battles in front of Richmond, Confederate General D.H. Hill complained that there were places in central Africa that were better mapped than the immediate area outside the Confederate’s own capital. Both Stonewall Jackson and ‘Prince’ John Magruder rather notoriously got entire divisions lost during those days, rendering themselves useless. Jackson found out the hard way that there was a difference between Old Cold Harbor and Cold Harbor, and Magruder didn’t realize the road on his map spelled Enroughty was the one everyone was calling ‘Darby.’

    As for Hannibal, he conquered because of his profound grasp of logistics. Getting elephants over the Alps was no mean feat, and he was able to keep his army in Italy for 15 years living off the land without being starved out because of mastery of logistics. Armies back in that era were prone to being starved out.

    • Thanks: ic1000
    • Replies: @res
    @Anon

    Thanks. Are there any references you recommend for the history of the topographical corps? This link seems to indicate more than three went south.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160315071700/http://www.topogs.org/History2.htm

    This is pretty far OT so


    The Civil War brought to an end most of the peacetime activities of the Corps of Topographical Engineers. Most of the officers remained loyal to the Federal government and were transferred to the different fighting arms of the service for recruiting, training, and combat duty. Others were attached to the military headquarters of various armies for topographical duty. Volunteer regiments from various states were officered in part by former topographical officers. From a total of forty-five officers at the beginning of 1861, the Corps was reduced a year later to twenty-eight officers, as a result of these transfers.

    The officers who resigned to take part with the Confederacy were chiefly the younger, more recently appointed ones. Joseph E. Johnston, who had become Quartermaster General of the United States Army on June 28, 1860, after serving for five years in the cavalry, resigned on April 22, 1861, and in the following month became a brigadier general of the Confederate States of America. Capt. M. L. Smith, who resigned on April 1, 1863, also became a general in the Confederate Army. Other officers were F. T. Bryan1, W. P. Smith, Joseph Dixon, W. H. Echols, C. R. Collins, and R. F. Beckham. Joseph C. Ives, after declining an appointment as captain in the 17th Infantry in May, 1861, was dismissed on December 26 for disloyalty to the government, and went South to fight with the Confederacy.

    ...

    A number of former officers of the Topographical Engineers attained prominence during the Civil War. Meade and Fremont became major generals in the United States Army, while Abbot, Michler, and Raynolds became brigadier generals. In the volunteer service, generalships were held by Emory, Franklin, Humphreys, Parke, Poe, Pope, W. F. Smith, Thom, Warren, Wilson, and Wood. Haldemand S. Putnam, J. L. Kirby Smith, O. G. Wagner, and A. W. Whipple lost their lives during the struggle.
     
    , @Polistra
    @Anon

    Thanks. Wish you had a regular nickname around here so I could more easily follow your contributions.

  69. @The Alarmist
    What about landmark-oriented directions? Like, “Make a hard right turn at the checkerboard ....”


    http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/31/2531/1024/kaitak3.jpg

    Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @PiltdownMan

    That would be the old Hong Kong airport. I remember flying into there in the late eighties,people on their balconies just beyond the wingtips as you descended.

  70. holocaust deniers asked to find ash pits of aktion reinhard on a map. they’ve no idea.

  71. @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    Thanks. I thought this post linked there was particularly good.
    http://ianjamesross.com/journal/2016/8/24/did-the-romans-have-maps

    I find it interesting that they had detailed city plans but not maps of larger areas. Were there any nautical charts?

    Wikipedia (citing Bowditch) claims “Nautical charts and textual descriptions known as sailing directions have been in use in one form or another since the sixth century BC.[14]”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation#Mediterranean

    This looks like a better reference though.
    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44175/44175-h/44175-h.htm

    The early Greek and Roman writers do not allude to charts or maps intended especially for the use of seafarers. There are, however, extant several peripli or descriptions of the coast. Some of these appear certainly to have been intended for use as nautical guides, corresponding to the modern sailing directions. It is probable that they were explanatory of or accompanied by coast charts, now lost. They are of interest therefore as being probably the first compilations for the guidance of seamen.

    P.S. I chased down the Bowditch reference. The relevant parts.

    Charts probably existed as early as 600 B.C.

    Sailing Directions or pilots have existed since at least the 6th century B.C.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res


    I find it interesting that they had detailed city plans but not maps of larger areas. Were there any nautical charts?
     
    As you can see in my link about Chinese maps, that tendency was paralleled in pre-modern China. The Chinese had detailed and even accurately scaled city maps, but their larger maps were much more primitive (and geared toward navigation).
  72. This is why the Fraudsident biden Failministration left 85 million taxpayer dollars of military equipment behind, so Abdul can learn to use GPS.

  73. @Charon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That's about how many it's possible to have a reasonably intelligent conversation with, too. On a very good day, I mean.

    You want to have some sort of high-level exchange, it's more like one to two percent.

    Who was the last American president with whom you'd enjoy an abstract or theoretical conversation?

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Slick Willy was the last president with an IQ over 115

  74. The concept of a map, much less of a globe, took a long time to catch on in world history. Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps. People thought more in terms of itineraries back then, like GPS instructions now.

    When I traveled in Mongolia, our driver drove u s half-way across the country, off-road, without a map or GPS system. He just knew the terrain from landmarks.

  75. @Anon
    OT

    CRIME OCT. 18, 2021
    A Woman Was Raped on a Train While the Rest of the Car Watched
    https://www.thecut.com/2021/10/woman-raped-on-septa-train-while-other-passengers-watched.html

    Kitty Genovese redux?


    When a man raped a woman on a Pennsylvania train last week, a whole carful of people reportedly looked on without doing anything to help: Local police say none of the passengers attempted to intervene or called 911 during the roughly eight-minute attack....

    Although the woman tried to stop him, “he proceeded to rip her clothes off.” While Bernhardt did not specify exactly how many people stood by during the rape that followed — it wasn’t “dozens of people,” he said — he explained that surveillance footage indicated there were enough witnesses that “collectively, they could have gotten together and done something.”
     
    Here's the problem with a Kitty Genovese comparison:

    1. The rapist was a black guy (surprise).

    2. Who is stupid enough to step into a situation where a black violent criminal is doing his thing? Will a knife or gun materialize? How are your grappling skills? He's had practice, and you haven't.

    3. Let's say you stab or shoot the guy, or twist his arm so his basketball skills suffer. He's black. You aren't. All the black victims of police killings have been felons, and yet they end up being held up as heroes. You will be villainized, perhaps prosecuted, mobbed online, fired from your job, whatever. You stopped a rape, but the world is crazy now. Women just need to deal with black criminals on their own these days. Get a boyfriend or husband and don't go out without him. There's no percentage in it for strangers to help.

    4. Many years ago I pushed the alarm button on BART when a crazy schitzo black guy got on the train. At the next stop he was escorted off. When the doors closed I was the target of a lot of hostile glares from black commuters. A black woman pulled out what looked like a cigarette lighter shaped like a gun and pointed it at me. I hoped it wasn't a gun. So calling 911? Not a good idea.

    5. "Get together and do something": That requires a leader to initiate it, and the leader becomes the target at that point of the perp or his racemates in the vicinity.

    Bernhardt reportedly said any of them who recorded the assault could face criminal charges too. He clarified, however, that it would be up to the Delaware County district attorney’s office to make that call and to decide what the charges might be.
     
    This sounds crazy, except that Pennsylvania has a hardcore two-party wiretapping law that they enforce with a vengeance. But you have a right to film anything around you in public, I'd think.

    https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-recording-law

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    You are a coward.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Chrisnonymous

    What, you seriously expect White guys to jump on grenades for White women after being told for the last 60 years they are evil, by the very same women?

    This is the world White women made. They turned out in mass numbers for George Floyd. They deserve to get their black thugs in full measure. White women have made it very, very clear they HATE HATE HATE the 95% of White men not Alpha, and side with black thugs.

    And government, the media, the fraudulent President, the Attorney General, states, the GOP, the Dems, the corporations, have all doubled down on this: White men genetically evil and with hereditary blood guilt, blacks all special and magical and racial redeemers.

    OK, message received. White women not relatives or wives/girlfriends of White men are on their own.

    And as strong empowered women, they should be happy. I figure most are. If White women want protection they better be relatives or trade exclusive sex with a White guy and never ever be out alone. Again this is the world they made and they should be happy about it.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Mike_from_SGV

  76. @MEH 0910
    @Gordo

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1450300399274000393

    Replies: @Anonymous, @res

    Thanks. This looks like a decent overview of SLDs (Straight Line Diagrams).
    https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog855/node/782
    It references some neat tools for MA and VT highways. The MA tool is not loading now for some reason though.

  77. @Twinkie
    @Alfa158


    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination.
     
    My wife has a doctorate in STEMM and she still can't read a map. And I have tried to teach her land navigation for decades!

    Years ago (a couple decades ago actually), we were visiting Seattle, and I was driving. My wife was supposed to be navigating with a map. After I reached a certain waypoint, I asked my wife, "What's next?" Her response was, "Um, uh, oh, ah... Just head toward the water!"

    I looked at her with that "mild astonishment" look and said, "There is water in three directions - north, east, and west. We are on a small peninsula." She just smiled uncomfortably. I took the map from her and drove and navigated the rest of the way.

    Even now, she still occasionally tries to "correct" me when I drive. I am old enough to understand this game now, so I don't argue and just follow what she says. Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, "Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?"

    Replies: @El Dato, @kaganovitch, @Bill Jones

    Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”

    Ah Twinkie, Faith and begorrah but yer a brave man.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @kaganovitch

    I’ve learned over the years that women learn best from the pain of their own making. But also that we men must be ready to shoulder the blame. ;)

  78. @El Dato
    @Colin Wright

    An interesting point.

    I guess "maps" had to be invented the same way as our concept of "time". The cloud of locations and points had to be transformed from an incomplete graph of events or graph of places with relative relationships like "comes 5 years after" or "is 15 days' march to the west of" into points on absolute background canvas in which everything that can be located and everything that happens can in principle be seamlessly recorded (though quantum mechanics has thrown a big spanner into this primitive picture as not only is an infinite amount of stuff happening at every single moment but also only a finite amount of it is recorded with any attempt are making things too newtonianically precise hidden behind a veil of imprecision, so ... back to graphs? but which graphs?)

    Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using "grid cells" is progressing

    2014-10: Brain’s Positioning System Linked to Memory: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to three researchers who discovered how the brain navigates the world. Their work may also help illuminate how the mind stores memories.

    2016-01: New Clues to How the Brain Maps Time: The same brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time. The research suggests that our thoughts may take place on a mental space-time canvas.

    2019-01: The Brain Maps Out Ideas and Memories Like Spaces: merging evidence suggests that the brain encodes abstract knowledge in the same way that it represents positions in space, which hints at a more universal theory of cognition.

    2019-10: Goals and Rewards Redraw the Brain’s Map of the World: Two new studies show that the brain’s navigation system changes how it represents physical space to reflect personal experience.

    2021-10: How Animals Map 3D Spaces Surprises Brain Researchers: When animals move through 3D spaces, the neat system of grid cell activity they use for navigating on flat surfaces gets more disorderly. That has implications for some ideas about memory and other processes.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Colin Wright

    Maybe the Romans maneuvered via landmarks and time. Like: “go to the mountain three days’ north of the cluster of lakes in the valley that’s two day’s march from X town.”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Paperback Writer

    I wonder whether - historically - there has been a dramatic rise in visuospatial IQ and whether that’s at least partially responsible for the rise of maps.

    , @Anonymous
    @Paperback Writer

    The Romans put milestones every 1000 paces on their roads. They were numbered and normally told you how far you were from the nearest large town.
    The Romans counted paces military-style ie in pairs thus left right left right left right would be 3 paces in total.

  79. @kaganovitch
    @Twinkie

    Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”

    Ah Twinkie, Faith and begorrah but yer a brave man.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I’ve learned over the years that women learn best from the pain of their own making. But also that we men must be ready to shoulder the blame. 😉

  80. @Paperback Writer
    @El Dato

    Maybe the Romans maneuvered via landmarks and time. Like: "go to the mountain three days' north of the cluster of lakes in the valley that's two day's march from X town."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    I wonder whether – historically – there has been a dramatic rise in visuospatial IQ and whether that’s at least partially responsible for the rise of maps.

  81. @res
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Thanks. I thought this post linked there was particularly good.
    http://ianjamesross.com/journal/2016/8/24/did-the-romans-have-maps

    I find it interesting that they had detailed city plans but not maps of larger areas. Were there any nautical charts?

    Wikipedia (citing Bowditch) claims "Nautical charts and textual descriptions known as sailing directions have been in use in one form or another since the sixth century BC.[14]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation#Mediterranean

    This looks like a better reference though.
    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44175/44175-h/44175-h.htm


    The early Greek and Roman writers do not allude to charts or maps intended especially for the use of seafarers. There are, however, extant several peripli or descriptions of the coast. Some of these appear certainly to have been intended for use as nautical guides, corresponding to the modern sailing directions. It is probable that they were explanatory of or accompanied by coast charts, now lost. They are of interest therefore as being probably the first compilations for the guidance of seamen.
     
    P.S. I chased down the Bowditch reference. The relevant parts.

    Charts probably existed as early as 600 B.C.
    ...
    Sailing Directions or pilots have existed since at least the 6th century B.C.

     

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I find it interesting that they had detailed city plans but not maps of larger areas. Were there any nautical charts?

    As you can see in my link about Chinese maps, that tendency was paralleled in pre-modern China. The Chinese had detailed and even accurately scaled city maps, but their larger maps were much more primitive (and geared toward navigation).

  82. @JohnnyWalker123
    23% of Americans can find Iran on a map.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/can-you-find-iran-on-a-map/

    Replies: @Charon, @Hannah Katz, @Rob

    I wish that number were literally 100%. Then we could avoid the next stupid war.

  83. She was right about maps.

  84. @Twinkie
    @Brutusale


    Whenever I hear anyone droning on about the brilliance of the Chinese and the Indians, I remind the speaker that there are over a billion of each. There may be a galaxy of geniuses, along with a universe of morons.
     
    Yeah, but the IQ distribution is not the same among the Chinese and the Indians. Or among whites and blacks, for that matter.

    I am not one of those people who think that "the smart fraction" is everything, but it has societal implications and the smart fraction varies in size and composition relative to the general public among different peoples.

    For our American context, though, things are a bit different. Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country and Indian immigration, in general, has exploded in the past two decades. So expect to run into a lot more high IQ Indians in America now and in the future.

    Whether having this new alien overlord class that has the lowest assimilation index among major Asian immigrant groups is a good thing or not for other Americans, I leave to your imagination.

    What I often find odd is a long-standing positive bias Mr. Sailer seems to have toward Indians (especially compared to East Asians). Contrary to all evidence, Mr. Sailer seems to have long thought Indians more politically conservative, assimilative, etc. (down to believing they donate more to their American almae matres), because they are "more loquacious" or something.

    Replies: @res

    In my experience the Indians who have thoroughly assimilated to British norms are quite pleasant. But there is substantial variation, and the clannishness of many is hard to take IMO.

    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to? Given the caste system in India I don’t think the answer to that is simple.

    BTW, regarding “Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country.” That was kind of my impression as well, but I just went and took a look at the IAB brain-drain data for US male immigrants in 2010
    https://www.iab.de/en/daten/iab-brain-drain-data.aspx

    It’s hard to summarize the results (I started to and it just became too complicated), but given their three levels of education and looking at men in 2010 India appears to be in the midst of the highly selective group of countries. Nigeria makes a good comparison. It is a bit more selective, but has an eighth the number of immigrants as India.

    Note that their are separate spreadsheets for immigration and emigration. Really need to look at both.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res


    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to?
     
    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years - they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.

    BTW, regarding “Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country.”
     
    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.

    Replies: @res

    , @nebulafox
    @res

    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you've seen, res? India's got 22 official languages, some of which don't even share the same alphabet, let alone language family, so logical to ask.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you've got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country. It shouldn't be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora. In an age of globalization and anti-assimilation being the bien-pensant zeitgeist, such an entrenched attitude isn't going anywhere.

    Singapore's Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore's main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.) But then, Singapore's government could do things to encourage that which are not feasible in the US. The sole exception was a brief concern about local Tamils bankrolling the Tigers in Sri Lanka during that conflict back in the 1980s. But at the same time, Whitey Bulger and Co. were helping the IRA, and I doubt that conflicted with their American identity, so that probably doesn't prove anything.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @res

  85. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    That is even funnier, Redneck, with regard to the new phone apps. My wife will turn them on a few times when I have gotten lazy or it is worth using (on a long road trip at night, diverting to a certain store well off the route to get a birthday cake, for example).

    Have you heard the sound from these things lately? I really believe the software developers were told by marketing to turn this into a NWA. (That's Nagging Wife App.) I mean, you get told 3 times coming up to a turn about making sure to keep right, it's coming soon, etc. Both me and my boy kept going "OK, we got it!"

    This WILL be a blog post on Peak Stupidity. Thanks for the reminder.

    [EDIT: Just saw Reg's comment. DITTO!]

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    I love it when they confuse the direction you need to go. One plant we deliver to I ended up driving past, because I needed to keep left instead of going right. Or go slightly left at the crossroads, instead of go North on Rt. 28. Not fun when you’re trying to make a deadline in a state you’ve never been in.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    I really hope, as a minor The Office fan, Mr. Sailer could put this up in his post. This is a hilarious display of GPS app stupidity:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY

    "Make a U-turn, if possible." Hahaaa!

    Oh, in that 2nd-to-last scene, that's a different movie with the famous (to me) line "OK, who's the U-boat commander?"

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  86. @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

    Here’s the subway system in Peking. Since having a scale on maps seems to be another lost common-sense idea (yeah, I know, it’s a schematic), to give you perspective, that outer loop (light blue) is about 35 miles long, meaning E-W on the northern segment is ~ 10 miles

    Now, here’s a good sense-of-direction/map/language barrier story: I was coming from near the smaller (“Capital City”, I think?) airport in Peking, China, and I went down into that subway to catch that light blue outer loop train to go around and catch that gray one on the NE toward the big airport. I knew one way (CCW or CW) was closer than the other.

    The problem is, that I’d taken a couple of turns while going down into the station. I usually am good in a big store, etc. to know which way is still which. Was it due to going down? I don’t know if I had known where I was with respect to North, i.e. which side (inside/outside) of that loop I was to begin with, even before I came down there.

    Now came the MASSIVE language barrier. They had this diagram all over. They had the two “end points” (I guess just the places you’d likely be going) for one way and the other. Those points were in Chinese characters! No, I don’t blame them a bit, but to trying to match up one or the other set of squiggles with all the squiggles on that line … well, a train came one way before I was successful at that pattern matching, so I got on it. Yeah, I made it home.

  87. @R.G. Camara
    @Colin Wright

    It's also interesting that Roman engineers didn't have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton, @Bardon Kaldian, @Ralph L, @Eric Novak

    They very carefully removed evidence of their centuries of failures. Prestige is worth two legions among the barbarians.

  88. @res
    @Twinkie

    In my experience the Indians who have thoroughly assimilated to British norms are quite pleasant. But there is substantial variation, and the clannishness of many is hard to take IMO.

    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to? Given the caste system in India I don't think the answer to that is simple.

    BTW, regarding "Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country." That was kind of my impression as well, but I just went and took a look at the IAB brain-drain data for US male immigrants in 2010
    https://www.iab.de/en/daten/iab-brain-drain-data.aspx

    It's hard to summarize the results (I started to and it just became too complicated), but given their three levels of education and looking at men in 2010 India appears to be in the midst of the highly selective group of countries. Nigeria makes a good comparison. It is a bit more selective, but has an eighth the number of immigrants as India.

    Note that their are separate spreadsheets for immigration and emigration. Really need to look at both.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to?

    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years – they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.

    BTW, regarding “Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country.”

    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.

    • Replies: @res
    @Twinkie


    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years – they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.
     
    Agreed. But what I don't know is the mean of those ancestral groups. For example, Brahmins are the highest caste and are heavily overrepresented in the US. I suspect the average IQ of Brahmins in the US is high, but have no idea of the average for the caste back in India (which I think is the relevant mean). I have even less of a clue about the other castes.

    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.
     
    Thanks for clarifying. That is what I guessed you meant (why I took care to make the point about Nigerian population size). I agree with you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  89. @Bardon Kaldian
    @R.G. Camara

    https://virtual-rebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Ancient-Roman-Map.jpeg

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-ancient-Romans-have-maps

    Did the ancient Romans have maps?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @R.G. Camara, @Twinkie, @res, @obwandiyag

    That’s a medieval map. Of a Roman itinerary.

    • Agree: Not Raul
  90. @Barnard
    Black NHL player Evander Kane, who has been given every accommodation and benefit of the doubt possible through multiple scandals has been suspended for sending the league a fake Covid vaccine card. I speculated some NBA players might do this, it doesn't seem like it would be hard for them to find a pharmacist to fill one out for them. I wonder if Kane's was such a bad fake they couldn't look the other way.

    https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/32425827/san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-suspended-21-games-nhl-established-violation-covid-19-protocol

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    …has been suspended for sending the league a fake Covid vaccine card.

    If that isn’t white supremacism, what is?

  91. @Colin Wright
    'Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps.'

    It's interesting looking at what the Romans had instead what we would call maps. More like flow charts; 'to get to Marseilles from Rome, go to Bologna and turn left.'

    I find it somehow hard to grasp that they might have had little idea of the shape of Italy, for example. I can't even think of Italy without seeing the image of its map in my head -- but if I showed that image to a Roman and told him it was what Italy looked like, he'd think I had a screw loose. For some reason, I was showing him a drawing (and the Romans could draw perfectly well) of what appeared to be a bone with a lot of the meat still on and claiming it was Italy.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @El Dato, @Muggles, @Hypnotoad666

    I am not sure that Roman generals (or others) didn’t have maps.

    Paper was very scarce and crumbles badly over time.

    They did have surveys and boundary markers.

    The kind of maps we use now assume an “above the object” perspective, as in a God’s eye view or nowadays, from aircraft. Ancient peoples only had mountains or tall objects where the range of vision was at most, perhaps 50 miles.

    Even today property surveys rely on ground measurements and location markers. Point to point surveys rely on distances from markers or larger objects, and angles measured.

    But there are a few early maps showing relative locations of rivers, seas, mountains, etc. sometimes on large walls or even carved. Not many survived.

    There was little paper (which rarely survived), no printing and aside from tall structures or mountains, no aerial overviews. For a general or traveler, simple directions using ground objects, distances estimated or based on time to traverse, would probably be more useful. There were almost no actual “roads” other than animal tracks or wagon tracks. Very few bridges, only ferries.

    Since few were literate in any sense, other than relative sizes and approximate boundaries, maps with names would be useless.

    “Turn left at the Tiber and march for three days, until you reach a mountain with a stone cap”
    would be far more useful.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Muggles

    'I am not sure that Roman generals (or others) didn’t have maps...'

    There are two flaws in your argument.

    First, what the Romans used instead of maps have survived -- the flow charts I described. Had they made maps as well, we'd presumably have an example or two.

    Second, European maps -- albeit often wildly inaccurate -- predate aircraft by a good four hundred years -- if not more. We were perfectly capable of conceiving of a birds-eye view of the world long before we could actually do like a bird.

  92. @Anon
    The Romans had peripluses, which were port-by-port guides to voyages and stopover points, going as far as halfway down east Africa, all around the Black Sea, and around the tip of India to Ceylon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periplus

    They also had road trip maps giving similar information about cities and towns that you'd pass while travelling on various Roman roads. These were written linearly or in a switch back pattern, without much regard to distances or relative geographical location.

    In pre-Roman Alexandria Claudius Ptolemy wrote his "Geography" that included world and Mediterranean maps. Ptolemy invented longitude and latitude and two forms of map projections. This information plus an appendix containing locations with their coordinates allowed people in the Middle Ages to reconstruct Ptolemy's maps, which unlike the text itself had been lost.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_(Ptolemy)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    Ptolemy, born 100 AD, was in Roman Alexandria.

    There probably were maps in pre-Roman Alexandria. In particular, Eratosthenes, 400 years earlier, must have made a detailed map of Egypt to measure the size of the degree latitude. Strabo seems to say that Eratosthenes made a map of the world.

  93. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The Auto Club booklets for cross-country trips were similarly linear.

    Replies: @epebble, @Aspiring Wrapper

    In Computerese, these linear maps are known as Vector Graphics. This is how PostScript (the language used in PDF files) stores all the text and graphics. If you scale a PDF file by 40 times, you can still see the letters beautifully. You can’t do that if it were a photographic magnification (like in a Xerox machine). All the dots will show up and the picture will look grainy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics

  94. Is it okay to admit that my respect for the Taliban rose slightly (to the extent that it exists) after watching that video?

    They are trying to make the poor guy look dumb. But they’re doing it in his office, in the land his people conquered. And he knows it.

    Who’s the dummy here?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Blank


    They are trying to make the poor guy look dumb. But they’re doing it in his office, in the land his people conquered. And he knows it.

    Who’s the dummy here?
     
    The man who told his fellow Americans "Islam is a peaceful religion." Even minimally educated people know that to be false.
  95. > Me: “You know, on the WWW, we have room for both.”

    That reminds me of scam/promotional sites that say things like “We’d love to share our breakthrough idea with you here on this website, but there’s not enough space. However, if you send us some money, we’ll send you a book with all the details.”

  96. @Chrisnonymous
    @Anon

    You are a coward.

    Replies: @Whiskey

    What, you seriously expect White guys to jump on grenades for White women after being told for the last 60 years they are evil, by the very same women?

    This is the world White women made. They turned out in mass numbers for George Floyd. They deserve to get their black thugs in full measure. White women have made it very, very clear they HATE HATE HATE the 95% of White men not Alpha, and side with black thugs.

    And government, the media, the fraudulent President, the Attorney General, states, the GOP, the Dems, the corporations, have all doubled down on this: White men genetically evil and with hereditary blood guilt, blacks all special and magical and racial redeemers.

    OK, message received. White women not relatives or wives/girlfriends of White men are on their own.

    And as strong empowered women, they should be happy. I figure most are. If White women want protection they better be relatives or trade exclusive sex with a White guy and never ever be out alone. Again this is the world they made and they should be happy about it.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Whiskey

    What is known (or not known at this time) of the racial makeup of the bystanders? This might be a Sailer's Law type situation if the race of the participants is not disclosed, one could take an educated guess?

    As to bringing charges against bystanders making cell-phone movies of this, I get a sense that the police regard people recording such images for their prurient entertainment value, which is rather sick, rather than collecting evidence for the trial of the perpetrator? Occam's Razor, bay-bee!

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @Whiskey

    Precisely. They can't have GRRRL PWR! and then turn around and expect help when they're a damsel in distress.

  97. @El Dato
    @Colin Wright

    An interesting point.

    I guess "maps" had to be invented the same way as our concept of "time". The cloud of locations and points had to be transformed from an incomplete graph of events or graph of places with relative relationships like "comes 5 years after" or "is 15 days' march to the west of" into points on absolute background canvas in which everything that can be located and everything that happens can in principle be seamlessly recorded (though quantum mechanics has thrown a big spanner into this primitive picture as not only is an infinite amount of stuff happening at every single moment but also only a finite amount of it is recorded with any attempt are making things too newtonianically precise hidden behind a veil of imprecision, so ... back to graphs? but which graphs?)

    Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using "grid cells" is progressing

    2014-10: Brain’s Positioning System Linked to Memory: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to three researchers who discovered how the brain navigates the world. Their work may also help illuminate how the mind stores memories.

    2016-01: New Clues to How the Brain Maps Time: The same brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time. The research suggests that our thoughts may take place on a mental space-time canvas.

    2019-01: The Brain Maps Out Ideas and Memories Like Spaces: merging evidence suggests that the brain encodes abstract knowledge in the same way that it represents positions in space, which hints at a more universal theory of cognition.

    2019-10: Goals and Rewards Redraw the Brain’s Map of the World: Two new studies show that the brain’s navigation system changes how it represents physical space to reflect personal experience.

    2021-10: How Animals Map 3D Spaces Surprises Brain Researchers: When animals move through 3D spaces, the neat system of grid cell activity they use for navigating on flat surfaces gets more disorderly. That has implications for some ideas about memory and other processes.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Colin Wright

    ‘Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using “grid cells” is progressing’

    Since you’ve brought it up, one thing that fascinates me is that if I have to set the alarm to get up at some inhuman hour, I’ll often wake up five minutes before it’s set to go off. I can customarily awake about eight am, set the alarm for six am — and I’ll awake at 5:55 am.

    How can my brain do that? I can see it tracking time in some sort of vague biological way: ‘we’ve been sitting here for quite a while.’

    But how can it track time with such mechanical precision? I can’t formulate any convincing hypothesis.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Colin Wright

    Seems to be a thing among those with a worrying mechanism.

    I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.

    Say you are used to 12 am down; 8 am up. If you are worried about getting up at 6 am, your body anticipates awakening at 3/4 of a usual cycle.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  98. @Muggles
    @Colin Wright

    I am not sure that Roman generals (or others) didn't have maps.

    Paper was very scarce and crumbles badly over time.

    They did have surveys and boundary markers.

    The kind of maps we use now assume an "above the object" perspective, as in a God's eye view or nowadays, from aircraft. Ancient peoples only had mountains or tall objects where the range of vision was at most, perhaps 50 miles.

    Even today property surveys rely on ground measurements and location markers. Point to point surveys rely on distances from markers or larger objects, and angles measured.

    But there are a few early maps showing relative locations of rivers, seas, mountains, etc. sometimes on large walls or even carved. Not many survived.

    There was little paper (which rarely survived), no printing and aside from tall structures or mountains, no aerial overviews. For a general or traveler, simple directions using ground objects, distances estimated or based on time to traverse, would probably be more useful. There were almost no actual "roads" other than animal tracks or wagon tracks. Very few bridges, only ferries.

    Since few were literate in any sense, other than relative sizes and approximate boundaries, maps with names would be useless.

    "Turn left at the Tiber and march for three days, until you reach a mountain with a stone cap"
    would be far more useful.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I am not sure that Roman generals (or others) didn’t have maps…’

    There are two flaws in your argument.

    First, what the Romans used instead of maps have survived — the flow charts I described. Had they made maps as well, we’d presumably have an example or two.

    Second, European maps — albeit often wildly inaccurate — predate aircraft by a good four hundred years — if not more. We were perfectly capable of conceiving of a birds-eye view of the world long before we could actually do like a bird.

  99. It’s a differences between the sexes thing. I’ve noticed that my wife doesn’t look at the map on her gps. She will just listen to the instructions of the electronic lady (which has a godawful british accent btw, or should I say Bri’ish), and will get the wrong turn because she’s not quite sure what “200 metres” is. Then I’ll tell her to just look at the map, she’ll explain that that’s just impossible and will keep doing what she’s doing. We’re visual, women are not, plus they really really like to follow instructions.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    @kihowi

    Once upon a time I believe it was possible to buy the dictator of directions as a voice of one's choice and load it into the satnav.
    I always hoped somebody would persuade John Motson to issue a plugin.
    Or Henry Blofeld.

    , @S. Anonyia
    @kihowi

    I’m probably better with maps than my husband and I drive us on long road trips. I’ve been a distance runner since I was a teenager and I started driving around my parents and grandparents at 14 before I had a permit. Once I got my license, I drove my friends everywhere for years since I had the most experience and the least fear of the road. If I’ve been somewhere once, I usually don’t need GPS again. Meanwhile my husband did not get his own car until his sophomore year of college because of his cheap, overbearing parents (they had plenty of money so it was absurd). He’s an engineer with decent spatial awareness, yet he dislikes driving and gets easily frustrated with it.

    Anyway, while I’m sure there are sex differences at play with visual thinking or interest in maps, you have to also consider that the typical woman gets way less practice driving and navigating in their youth than the typical man. My situation was pretty unusual.

    , @Lurker
    @kihowi

    Mrs Lurker will take wrong turns when the GPS gives out ambiguous instructions. I'll say "I think we should have turned off there"

    She wonders how I know? "Because I was looking at the map on the GPS"

    She only listens to the instructions, doesn't look at the map. Whereas I never listen at all. Usually turn the sound off.

    And another thing - I like to have a map on board. Avoiding issues, jams etc much better to turn off the main road using the map, let the GPS take over again later. Otherwise it keeps turning you back to the same non-viable route.

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @kihowi

    "plus they really really like to follow instructions" This is why liberal organizations are packed with rule-following female cogs-in-the-machine, who have probably never had an original or insightful thought in their entire life, but damn are they good at following and implementing instructions.

  100. @byrresheim
    @R.G. Camara

    They beat the shit out of the boy raping dope dealers and the US.

    Stop defaming your enemies. Often they are bad enough without anglo-american lies, and often you get confused yourself -- as in this case.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Wade Hampton

    The Afghan Taliban are not America’s enemies.

    Globalists (i.e. Neocons, the Party of Davos, reptiles like Bush the Dumber and Bill Kristol) consider the Afghan Taliban their enemy because they won’t adopt the globo-homo culture of atheism, sexual degeneracy, deracination (i.e. lack of attachment to their blood and soil), etc.

    I don’t think the Taliban care about Neocons other than to hold them in contempt, because they were able frustrate the globalists’ goals for the past 20 years. If the Afghans can do it, so should Americans be able to.

    • Agree: JerseyJeffersonian
  101. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    boy-raping dope dealers

    Isn’t that the CIA’s job description?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Bill Jones


    Isn’t that the CIA’s job description?
     
    Hey now, the company is totally not responsible for what independent subcontractors do in their own time.
  102. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    It’s my understanding the Taliban, when last in power, cracked down on man/boy sex.
    Is this wrong?

  103. @The Alarmist
    @Polistra

    To your point, when getting on the Internet required typing commands at a command prompt, it generally required a modicum of intelligence in its users. The creation of the WWW made it possible both for the dumb to get on the net as well as for the net to be used to further dumb them down.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    Blame xerox. The mouse was their idea.

  104. @Goatweed
    Turn left at the Walgreens.

    Replies: @tr

    Watch out. If it’s in San Francisco it may have just closed.

    (I love maps but hate to give directions. I’m afraid that I may say “Turn right. At the third light, turn left.” and then half an hour later remember that fifteen years ago, they put in a fourth light in between the ones I counted.

  105. @Christopher Chantrill
    Hey, watch it! My Mother -- of blessed memory -- was a map-oholic and used to use her road map of England to plan various routes from our home in the NW London suburbs to our vacation in North Wales.

    Replies: @tr

    How hard can that be? Start at the Marble Arch and take the A5.

  106. @Twinkie
    @Alfa158


    There are some, but I’ve noticed there are also some women even of high intelligence who are so bad at it that they look at a map and can only see blobs of color with text. They seem to have a weird inability to make the correlation between those blobs and lines and the corresponding real world geography. Also they can’t keep track of direction. Sometimes I’ll be driving and my wife will say something like “Honey, shouldn’t we be going that way instead?” I’ll usually just look at her with mild astonishment, she’ll say “Oh yeah, that’s right”, I’ll keep driving in the direction we were , and we arrive at our destination.
     
    My wife has a doctorate in STEMM and she still can't read a map. And I have tried to teach her land navigation for decades!

    Years ago (a couple decades ago actually), we were visiting Seattle, and I was driving. My wife was supposed to be navigating with a map. After I reached a certain waypoint, I asked my wife, "What's next?" Her response was, "Um, uh, oh, ah... Just head toward the water!"

    I looked at her with that "mild astonishment" look and said, "There is water in three directions - north, east, and west. We are on a small peninsula." She just smiled uncomfortably. I took the map from her and drove and navigated the rest of the way.

    Even now, she still occasionally tries to "correct" me when I drive. I am old enough to understand this game now, so I don't argue and just follow what she says. Then once we go the wrong way and she realizes that, I just smile benevolently and say, "Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?"

    Replies: @El Dato, @kaganovitch, @Bill Jones

    “Can we now go the direction I want? You know, the correct way?”

    That’s on a par with my referring to my spouse as “My first wife”.

    It may be correct, but not wise.

    • LOL: Twinkie
  107. @Bill Jones
    @R.G. Camara


    boy-raping dope dealers
     
    Isn't that the CIA's job description?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Isn’t that the CIA’s job description?

    Hey now, the company is totally not responsible for what independent subcontractors do in their own time.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  108. @Paperback Writer
    @El Dato

    Maybe the Romans maneuvered via landmarks and time. Like: "go to the mountain three days' north of the cluster of lakes in the valley that's two day's march from X town."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    The Romans put milestones every 1000 paces on their roads. They were numbered and normally told you how far you were from the nearest large town.
    The Romans counted paces military-style ie in pairs thus left right left right left right would be 3 paces in total.

    • Thanks: Paperback Writer
  109. We all love tittering at these backward Pashtun tribesmen, but they defeated our Princeton chairman of JCoS and our Secretary of Defense with his Masters in ‘Counselor Education’ from Auburn.

    Also, the Taliban wouldn’t let some homeless immigrant bleg rape a woman on a commuter train in front of people filming it with their camera phones:

    https://nypost.com/2021/10/16/passengers-did-nothing-during-rape-on-philadelphia-train-cops/

  110. Hitler’s Missing Globe

    Oct 18, 2021

    What happened to the famous and very valuable Columbus Globe from Hitler’s Berlin office, that disappeared in May 1945?

  111. Two points.

    1. An entertaining video, but are there really Taliban spokesmen who speak fluent French and don’t know what a globe is?

    2. The English countryside is criss-crossed with ancient trails from one village to another. I often walk them, taking a detailed map with me. You consult the map at forks in the trails every half a mile or so – which way, east or south? Maps of the entire country, let alone the globe, are no use whatever. (Star charts are ancient and a different matter.)

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Philip Neal


    The English countryside is criss-crossed with ancient trails from one village to another. I often walk them, taking a detailed map with me. You consult the map at forks in the trails every half a mile or so – which way, east or south?
     
    The weirdest band name in the UK, Public Foot the Roman, was taken from a broken sign on such a path near Cambridge.
  112. @Colin Wright
    @El Dato

    'Semi on-topic, research into how maps are made in brains using “grid cells” is progressing'

    Since you've brought it up, one thing that fascinates me is that if I have to set the alarm to get up at some inhuman hour, I'll often wake up five minutes before it's set to go off. I can customarily awake about eight am, set the alarm for six am -- and I'll awake at 5:55 am.

    How can my brain do that? I can see it tracking time in some sort of vague biological way: 'we've been sitting here for quite a while.'

    But how can it track time with such mechanical precision? I can't formulate any convincing hypothesis.

    Replies: @bomag

    Seems to be a thing among those with a worrying mechanism.

    I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.

    Say you are used to 12 am down; 8 am up. If you are worried about getting up at 6 am, your body anticipates awakening at 3/4 of a usual cycle.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @bomag

    'I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.'

    That's just it. My body's 'guesses' are improbably good.

    Replies: @bomag

  113. @Polistra

    “You know, on the WWW, we have room to have both.”
     
    Does anyone remember 1994-95, when the online population still skewed relatively intelligent? A bit nerdy, sure, but not clinically retarded yet? Here it is 2021 and we still have politicians talking about the "digital divide" and how we must devote some of our infinite trillions toward making sure every person has free broadband access? Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @TelfoedJohn, @J.Ross

    Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.

    Technology can make clever people cleverer and dumb people dumber. Among the black underclass of Detroit, Chicago etc, many kids and teenagers are functionally illiterate. To do anything on their phone they just ask Siri (or Google, Samsung equivalents). The ability to read or write is not necessary. Apple are encouraging this by offering a Siri-only Music service, where you can ONLY use your voice to choose music: https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/apple-music-voice-siri-plan-1235091801/

  114. @Simon Tugmutton
    @R.G. Camara

    There may well be people posting on the internet who believe the Roman engineers were instructed by aliens. I do not have the will to look into this myself, but I might sell the idea to Graham Hancock.

    Replies: @meh

    There may well be people posting on the internet who believe the Roman engineers were instructed by aliens. I do not have the will to look into this myself, but I might sell the idea to Graham Hancock.

    Graham Hancock does not believe in or sell the idea of ancient aliens, people love strawmanning him on this because it’s easier than arguing with what he is actually saying.

    Speaking of ancient maps…

    https://www.amazon.com/Maps-Ancient-Sea-Kings-Civilization/dp/0932813429

    We do have plenty of direct and indirect evidence of ancient map making, but few maps survive and people tended to guard accurate maps as state and/or commercial secrets, back in the day. Ancient libraries tended to get looted, burned, or dispersed over time and maps were part of their store of knowledge.

    Speaking of men and ability to use maps, I’ve noticed my own map reading ability decline somewhat since coming to rely on GPS, and I had the advantage of growing up in the 1970s when boy scouts and cub scouts were taught to use a map and compass to navigate off trail through the woods. That training and having a male mind does wonders for being able to visualize what a map is trying to represent. I have no idea what kind of map training boys get now in the age of wokeism but it can’t be good.

  115. The Taliban defeated the outgoing global power and delivered billions of dollars in weapons and intelligence to the incoming global power. Are you sure they are the ones who aren’t thinking globally? Are you sure maps are a good idea?

  116. @Polistra

    “You know, on the WWW, we have room to have both.”
     
    Does anyone remember 1994-95, when the online population still skewed relatively intelligent? A bit nerdy, sure, but not clinically retarded yet? Here it is 2021 and we still have politicians talking about the "digital divide" and how we must devote some of our infinite trillions toward making sure every person has free broadband access? Imagine that there are even more stupid people on the way.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @TelfoedJohn, @J.Ross

    They want the internet to be TV and you have just explained why.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @J.Ross

    Back in the 1990s various internet providers were trying hammer the square peg of the internet into the round hole of the TV model.

  117. @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

    I think he cobbed the idea from electrical and early electronics schematics.

    (Damn. Now I’ll have to go off into fathomless interwebs rabbit holes to stand this assertion up).

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Gordo
    @Expletive Deleted

    He was an Electrical Engineer so I would say that must be the case.

  118. @kihowi
    It's a differences between the sexes thing. I've noticed that my wife doesn't look at the map on her gps. She will just listen to the instructions of the electronic lady (which has a godawful british accent btw, or should I say Bri'ish), and will get the wrong turn because she's not quite sure what "200 metres" is. Then I'll tell her to just look at the map, she'll explain that that's just impossible and will keep doing what she's doing. We're visual, women are not, plus they really really like to follow instructions.

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted, @S. Anonyia, @Lurker, @Mike_from_SGV

    Once upon a time I believe it was possible to buy the dictator of directions as a voice of one’s choice and load it into the satnav.
    I always hoped somebody would persuade John Motson to issue a plugin.
    Or Henry Blofeld.

  119. @Mr. Blank
    Is it okay to admit that my respect for the Taliban rose slightly (to the extent that it exists) after watching that video?

    They are trying to make the poor guy look dumb. But they're doing it in his office, in the land his people conquered. And he knows it.

    Who's the dummy here?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    They are trying to make the poor guy look dumb. But they’re doing it in his office, in the land his people conquered. And he knows it.

    Who’s the dummy here?

    The man who told his fellow Americans “Islam is a peaceful religion.” Even minimally educated people know that to be false.

  120. @Redneck farmer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I love it when they confuse the direction you need to go. One plant we deliver to I ended up driving past, because I needed to keep left instead of going right. Or go slightly left at the crossroads, instead of go North on Rt. 28. Not fun when you're trying to make a deadline in a state you've never been in.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I really hope, as a minor The Office fan, Mr. Sailer could put this up in his post. This is a hilarious display of GPS app stupidity:

    “Make a U-turn, if possible.” Hahaaa!

    Oh, in that 2nd-to-last scene, that’s a different movie with the famous (to me) line “OK, who’s the U-boat commander?”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    “Make a U-turn, if possible.” Hahaaa!
     
    There were no "No U-turn" signs in our Long Island neighborhood, so I saw my first, in first grade, in rural Oahu. I thought it was local dialect for "Do Not Turn". Really.

    Where Mrs C grew up, in the St Croix Valley, it's called "whipping a 💩ty". I would love to hear that come from the tablet.

    Can you change it in Settings to "Rap"? "Da Kine"? "Locust Valley Lockjaw"? "Pittsburghese"? "Kenneth Branagh"?

    "Geoffrey Holder"?


    https://youtu.be/euvh-eJ1rVg
  121. @kihowi
    It's a differences between the sexes thing. I've noticed that my wife doesn't look at the map on her gps. She will just listen to the instructions of the electronic lady (which has a godawful british accent btw, or should I say Bri'ish), and will get the wrong turn because she's not quite sure what "200 metres" is. Then I'll tell her to just look at the map, she'll explain that that's just impossible and will keep doing what she's doing. We're visual, women are not, plus they really really like to follow instructions.

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted, @S. Anonyia, @Lurker, @Mike_from_SGV

    I’m probably better with maps than my husband and I drive us on long road trips. I’ve been a distance runner since I was a teenager and I started driving around my parents and grandparents at 14 before I had a permit. Once I got my license, I drove my friends everywhere for years since I had the most experience and the least fear of the road. If I’ve been somewhere once, I usually don’t need GPS again. Meanwhile my husband did not get his own car until his sophomore year of college because of his cheap, overbearing parents (they had plenty of money so it was absurd). He’s an engineer with decent spatial awareness, yet he dislikes driving and gets easily frustrated with it.

    Anyway, while I’m sure there are sex differences at play with visual thinking or interest in maps, you have to also consider that the typical woman gets way less practice driving and navigating in their youth than the typical man. My situation was pretty unusual.

  122. @Gordo
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, reminds me of Beck's London Underground map.

    https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2020/01/final.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @El Dato, @Achmed E. Newman, @Expletive Deleted, @Reg Cæsar

    When I stayed between Kilburn Park and Maida Vale and worked between Earl’s Court and Gloucester Road, it was quicker to commute by two buses than by two train lines. Even at night, when buses were sparser.

    You can kind of guess that from the diagram, but it’s muted. It was really obvious on a map.

  123. Julius Caesar’s navigation system: “Hang a right at the Rubicon.”

  124. @R.G. Camara
    @Colin Wright

    It's also interesting that Roman engineers didn't have calculus or chemistry but managed to build mile-long bridges and roads made of materials that lasted two thousand years.

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton, @Bardon Kaldian, @Ralph L, @Eric Novak

    No differential and integral calc, but they did have Greek mathematics and physics and endless numbers of slaves to make up for material and design inefficiencies.

    • Replies: @very old statistician
    @Eric Novak

    They understood derivatives - they used different words - and they understood integration by parts - again they used different words.

  125. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    I really hope, as a minor The Office fan, Mr. Sailer could put this up in his post. This is a hilarious display of GPS app stupidity:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY

    "Make a U-turn, if possible." Hahaaa!

    Oh, in that 2nd-to-last scene, that's a different movie with the famous (to me) line "OK, who's the U-boat commander?"

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    “Make a U-turn, if possible.” Hahaaa!

    There were no “No U-turn” signs in our Long Island neighborhood, so I saw my first, in first grade, in rural Oahu. I thought it was local dialect for “Do Not Turn”. Really.

    Where Mrs C grew up, in the St Croix Valley, it’s called “whipping a 💩ty”. I would love to hear that come from the tablet.

    Can you change it in Settings to “Rap”? “Da Kine”? “Locust Valley Lockjaw”? “Pittsburghese”? “Kenneth Branagh”?

    “Geoffrey Holder”?

  126. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gordo
    @Anon

    Some years ago, before satnavs, my wife and I drove across Germany, she drove because she couldn't read the map. Nightmare as her driving wasn't better than her map reading.

    Replies: @Anon

    The road signs in Germany and Switzerland are destinations, not cardinal directions. For example A81 Richtung (direction) Stuttgart, not A81 North. My favorite is leaving a town by the Alle Richtungen – all directions. Could be leaving the south side of town and want to go north! This is the way!

  127. @bomag
    @Colin Wright

    Seems to be a thing among those with a worrying mechanism.

    I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.

    Say you are used to 12 am down; 8 am up. If you are worried about getting up at 6 am, your body anticipates awakening at 3/4 of a usual cycle.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.’

    That’s just it. My body’s ‘guesses’ are improbably good.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Colin Wright

    I hit an awake time within an hour, which seems within a body's guessing ability.

    Maybe some people are more granular in time recognition, or they remember more vividly the times they hit quite close.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  128. @Colin Wright
    'Even Roman generals, who were really good at their jobs, apparently didn’t have maps.'

    It's interesting looking at what the Romans had instead what we would call maps. More like flow charts; 'to get to Marseilles from Rome, go to Bologna and turn left.'

    I find it somehow hard to grasp that they might have had little idea of the shape of Italy, for example. I can't even think of Italy without seeing the image of its map in my head -- but if I showed that image to a Roman and told him it was what Italy looked like, he'd think I had a screw loose. For some reason, I was showing him a drawing (and the Romans could draw perfectly well) of what appeared to be a bone with a lot of the meat still on and claiming it was Italy.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @El Dato, @Muggles, @Hypnotoad666

    It seems hard to believe they didn’t have “maps.” Wasn’t the pythagorian theory developed for land surveys? And aren’t maps just extended surveys?

    On the other hand, the obvious things that weren’t invented are sometimes as surprising as the ingenious things that were. For example, the Romans invented cement but the idea of using a saddle or stirrups never occurred to them.

    Seriously? How could you spend hundreds of years falling off of horses and thinking “boy, I wish there was some device to hold me on the back of this animal, but oh well . . .”

  129. @Philip Neal
    Two points.

    1. An entertaining video, but are there really Taliban spokesmen who speak fluent French and don't know what a globe is?

    2. The English countryside is criss-crossed with ancient trails from one village to another. I often walk them, taking a detailed map with me. You consult the map at forks in the trails every half a mile or so - which way, east or south? Maps of the entire country, let alone the globe, are no use whatever. (Star charts are ancient and a different matter.)

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The English countryside is criss-crossed with ancient trails from one village to another. I often walk them, taking a detailed map with me. You consult the map at forks in the trails every half a mile or so – which way, east or south?

    The weirdest band name in the UK, Public Foot the Roman, was taken from a broken sign on such a path near Cambridge.

  130. @The Alarmist
    What about landmark-oriented directions? Like, “Make a hard right turn at the checkerboard ....”


    http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/31/2531/1024/kaitak3.jpg

    Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @PiltdownMan

    Reminds me of the old joke about asking some local for directions: “. . . you make a left right after the spot where the old McKenzie place used to be . . .”

  131. @Eric Novak
    @R.G. Camara

    No differential and integral calc, but they did have Greek mathematics and physics and endless numbers of slaves to make up for material and design inefficiencies.

    Replies: @very old statistician

    They understood derivatives – they used different words – and they understood integration by parts – again they used different words.

  132. It is amazing how little maps are used, considering how easy they are today. For example, many newspaper stories would be greatly helped by a map. So would a lot of ads in those papers. And yet maps are rare.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Roger

    There are no maps on-screen in "Lawrence of Arabia," a movie that would be easier to follow with a couple of maps.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  133. @PiltdownMan
    @Steve Sailer

    Considering that the Greeks figured out geometry, it's probably only sheer chance that they didn't invent maps. After having given plane and solid geometry to the world, I daresay they'd have been pretty good at mere cartography.

    On the other hand, in a the very sparsely inhabited landscapes of Roman times, there probably wasn't much need for accurate two-dimensional maps, since much of the land between inhabited points was wilderness anyway.

    Road or linear directions were what you needed to get from one human habitation to the next. What lay in-between was of no material interest to anyone.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Graham

    The Greeks did have maps. See the play The Clouds by Aristophanes, in which Strepsiades is shown a map for the first time and recoils in fear because Sparta, the enemy of Athens, seems to be so close to Athens, his city. For that to be funny the audience must have known what maps were.

    • Thanks: PiltdownMan, ic1000
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Graham

    I've got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  134. @Roger
    It is amazing how little maps are used, considering how easy they are today. For example, many newspaper stories would be greatly helped by a map. So would a lot of ads in those papers. And yet maps are rare.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    There are no maps on-screen in “Lawrence of Arabia,” a movie that would be easier to follow with a couple of maps.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Steve Sailer

    It probably wouldn't have worked, cinematically speaking, but it would have been particularly nice if David Lean had used Lawrence's own maps.

    https://blogs.bl.uk/magnificentmaps/2020/05/te-lawrences-maps-of-the-hejaz.html

  135. @Steve Sailer
    @Roger

    There are no maps on-screen in "Lawrence of Arabia," a movie that would be easier to follow with a couple of maps.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    It probably wouldn’t have worked, cinematically speaking, but it would have been particularly nice if David Lean had used Lawrence’s own maps.

    https://blogs.bl.uk/magnificentmaps/2020/05/te-lawrences-maps-of-the-hejaz.html

    • Thanks: res
  136. @kihowi
    It's a differences between the sexes thing. I've noticed that my wife doesn't look at the map on her gps. She will just listen to the instructions of the electronic lady (which has a godawful british accent btw, or should I say Bri'ish), and will get the wrong turn because she's not quite sure what "200 metres" is. Then I'll tell her to just look at the map, she'll explain that that's just impossible and will keep doing what she's doing. We're visual, women are not, plus they really really like to follow instructions.

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted, @S. Anonyia, @Lurker, @Mike_from_SGV

    Mrs Lurker will take wrong turns when the GPS gives out ambiguous instructions. I’ll say “I think we should have turned off there”

    She wonders how I know? “Because I was looking at the map on the GPS”

    She only listens to the instructions, doesn’t look at the map. Whereas I never listen at all. Usually turn the sound off.

    And another thing – I like to have a map on board. Avoiding issues, jams etc much better to turn off the main road using the map, let the GPS take over again later. Otherwise it keeps turning you back to the same non-viable route.

  137. @res
    @Twinkie

    In my experience the Indians who have thoroughly assimilated to British norms are quite pleasant. But there is substantial variation, and the clannishness of many is hard to take IMO.

    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to? Given the caste system in India I don't think the answer to that is simple.

    BTW, regarding "Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country." That was kind of my impression as well, but I just went and took a look at the IAB brain-drain data for US male immigrants in 2010
    https://www.iab.de/en/daten/iab-brain-drain-data.aspx

    It's hard to summarize the results (I started to and it just became too complicated), but given their three levels of education and looking at men in 2010 India appears to be in the midst of the highly selective group of countries. Nigeria makes a good comparison. It is a bit more selective, but has an eighth the number of immigrants as India.

    Note that their are separate spreadsheets for immigration and emigration. Really need to look at both.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you’ve seen, res? India’s got 22 official languages, some of which don’t even share the same alphabet, let alone language family, so logical to ask.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you’ve got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country. It shouldn’t be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora. In an age of globalization and anti-assimilation being the bien-pensant zeitgeist, such an entrenched attitude isn’t going anywhere.

    Singapore’s Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore’s main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.) But then, Singapore’s government could do things to encourage that which are not feasible in the US. The sole exception was a brief concern about local Tamils bankrolling the Tigers in Sri Lanka during that conflict back in the 1980s. But at the same time, Whitey Bulger and Co. were helping the IRA, and I doubt that conflicted with their American identity, so that probably doesn’t prove anything.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    Singapore’s Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore’s main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.)
     
    Yeah, I think many Singaporean Indians vociferously oppose immigrants from India ("Don't bring your caste-ism here" and whatnot), rather as the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.

    That said, I do wonder whether Singapore's Indians would have stayed that way if they were in control of Singapore rather than having to be mindful of their Chinese overlords (I am aware that there are prominent Indians in power in Singapore and that they do better than the Chinese in some economic terms, but let's not kid ourselves here - at the end of the day, the people who truly rule Singapore are Chinese even if they are very "ecumenical" toward their Indian citizens).

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    , @res
    @nebulafox


    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you’ve seen, res?
     
    I think there is, but I don't have a good enough sense of caste to make reliable judgments.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you’ve got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country.
     
    Agreed.

    It shouldn’t be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora.
     
    IMHO a serious problem. If it didn't matter, the contrast between Indian public views on race and their private views on caste (and race, I suspect) would be funny.

    Your comment about the assimilation of Indians in Singapore is thought provoking. It would be interesting to see a compare/contrast of Singapore with the US in that regard.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  138. @Graham
    @PiltdownMan

    The Greeks did have maps. See the play The Clouds by Aristophanes, in which Strepsiades is shown a map for the first time and recoils in fear because Sparta, the enemy of Athens, seems to be so close to Athens, his city. For that to be funny the audience must have known what maps were.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I’ve got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’ve got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.
     
    1. Herodotus was a master storyteller, but a fantasist. He was no Thucydides.

    2. There is no question the ancients had "maps" - the question is over what maps were in their time.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  139. @Colin Wright
    @bomag

    'I think your body triangulates time and makes a guess.'

    That's just it. My body's 'guesses' are improbably good.

    Replies: @bomag

    I hit an awake time within an hour, which seems within a body’s guessing ability.

    Maybe some people are more granular in time recognition, or they remember more vividly the times they hit quite close.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @bomag

    'Maybe some people are more granular in time recognition, or they remember more vividly the times they hit quite close.'

    It's true that I wouldn't count on my brain to wake me up: at a guess, half the time the alarm does it.

    It's just that other half of time, it's unaccountably close.

    ...and it's not habit. I'm retired: these are things like airplane flights, and the loon who wants me to meet him at his house to go fishing at 4:30 am, and so on. One offs.

    Unlike our benighted forefathers, we can explain most things -- but we haven't yet (and perhaps never will) reach the point where we can explain all things.

    ...sometimes in life there really are mysteries. There's no point in just dismissing them.

  140. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The Auto Club booklets for cross-country trips were similarly linear.

    Replies: @epebble, @Aspiring Wrapper

    I remember these. The ones from AAA were called “triptiks”. I think the local office personnel who created them even highlighted the intended route.

  141. @J.Ross
    @Polistra

    They want the internet to be TV and you have just explained why.

    Replies: @Lurker

    Back in the 1990s various internet providers were trying hammer the square peg of the internet into the round hole of the TV model.

  142. @Anon
    @ic1000

    Lee was good because up until Meade and Grant, the Union generals sucked. Lee also had more talent underneath him than the Northern army in the Eastern theater did. In the West, the North had more talent than the south, which was why the Civil War began to be lost by the Confederates in the West.

    When the war started and the the various officer corps split, most of the services divided evenly--except for the topographical corps. Only 3 topographers went south, and all the rest went north. The north was much better off than the south was when it came to maps.

    After the Seven Days' Battles in front of Richmond, Confederate General D.H. Hill complained that there were places in central Africa that were better mapped than the immediate area outside the Confederate's own capital. Both Stonewall Jackson and 'Prince' John Magruder rather notoriously got entire divisions lost during those days, rendering themselves useless. Jackson found out the hard way that there was a difference between Old Cold Harbor and Cold Harbor, and Magruder didn't realize the road on his map spelled Enroughty was the one everyone was calling 'Darby.'

    As for Hannibal, he conquered because of his profound grasp of logistics. Getting elephants over the Alps was no mean feat, and he was able to keep his army in Italy for 15 years living off the land without being starved out because of mastery of logistics. Armies back in that era were prone to being starved out.

    Replies: @res, @Polistra

    Thanks. Are there any references you recommend for the history of the topographical corps? This link seems to indicate more than three went south.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160315071700/http://www.topogs.org/History2.htm

    This is pretty far OT so

    [MORE]

    The Civil War brought to an end most of the peacetime activities of the Corps of Topographical Engineers. Most of the officers remained loyal to the Federal government and were transferred to the different fighting arms of the service for recruiting, training, and combat duty. Others were attached to the military headquarters of various armies for topographical duty. Volunteer regiments from various states were officered in part by former topographical officers. From a total of forty-five officers at the beginning of 1861, the Corps was reduced a year later to twenty-eight officers, as a result of these transfers.

    The officers who resigned to take part with the Confederacy were chiefly the younger, more recently appointed ones. Joseph E. Johnston, who had become Quartermaster General of the United States Army on June 28, 1860, after serving for five years in the cavalry, resigned on April 22, 1861, and in the following month became a brigadier general of the Confederate States of America. Capt. M. L. Smith, who resigned on April 1, 1863, also became a general in the Confederate Army. Other officers were F. T. Bryan1, W. P. Smith, Joseph Dixon, W. H. Echols, C. R. Collins, and R. F. Beckham. Joseph C. Ives, after declining an appointment as captain in the 17th Infantry in May, 1861, was dismissed on December 26 for disloyalty to the government, and went South to fight with the Confederacy.

    A number of former officers of the Topographical Engineers attained prominence during the Civil War. Meade and Fremont became major generals in the United States Army, while Abbot, Michler, and Raynolds became brigadier generals. In the volunteer service, generalships were held by Emory, Franklin, Humphreys, Parke, Poe, Pope, W. F. Smith, Thom, Warren, Wilson, and Wood. Haldemand S. Putnam, J. L. Kirby Smith, O. G. Wagner, and A. W. Whipple lost their lives during the struggle.

  143. @Twinkie
    @res


    One big question I see is: what mean do the children of those highly IQ selected Indian immigrants regress to?
     
    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years - they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.

    BTW, regarding “Indian immigration is educationally far more selective than that from any other country.”
     
    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.

    Replies: @res

    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years – they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.

    Agreed. But what I don’t know is the mean of those ancestral groups. For example, Brahmins are the highest caste and are heavily overrepresented in the US. I suspect the average IQ of Brahmins in the US is high, but have no idea of the average for the caste back in India (which I think is the relevant mean). I have even less of a clue about the other castes.

    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.

    Thanks for clarifying. That is what I guessed you meant (why I took care to make the point about Nigerian population size). I agree with you.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res


    have no idea of the average for the caste back in India (which I think is the relevant mean). I have even less of a clue about the other castes.
     
    And of course we haven't even explored the possibility of the Flynn Effect among Indians (esp. of the lower castes) since India still suffers from widespread malnutrition, pollution, and other environmental issues that retard IQ potential of the general public and even perhaps the upper segment of the population.

    I think data from India aren't just unreliable - often they don't exist. So much of the way we speak of Indians is highly conjectural, episodic/anecdotal, subjective, and/or otherwise subject to severe selection effect (of dealing with an immigrant population in the West).

    As India's standard of living (and hygiene) improves, I am curious how much its population's cognitive potential will grow. Perhaps it will reach the level of Europe or East Asia or perhaps there will still be certain genetic barriers to such heights (as seems to be the case with Indian lifespan - Indians seem to have serious, longstanding genetic issues that relate to poor cardiovascular health even with, or perhaps even worsened by, higher standards of living).
  144. @nebulafox
    @res

    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you've seen, res? India's got 22 official languages, some of which don't even share the same alphabet, let alone language family, so logical to ask.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you've got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country. It shouldn't be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora. In an age of globalization and anti-assimilation being the bien-pensant zeitgeist, such an entrenched attitude isn't going anywhere.

    Singapore's Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore's main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.) But then, Singapore's government could do things to encourage that which are not feasible in the US. The sole exception was a brief concern about local Tamils bankrolling the Tigers in Sri Lanka during that conflict back in the 1980s. But at the same time, Whitey Bulger and Co. were helping the IRA, and I doubt that conflicted with their American identity, so that probably doesn't prove anything.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @res

    Singapore’s Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore’s main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.)

    Yeah, I think many Singaporean Indians vociferously oppose immigrants from India (“Don’t bring your caste-ism here” and whatnot), rather as the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.

    That said, I do wonder whether Singapore’s Indians would have stayed that way if they were in control of Singapore rather than having to be mindful of their Chinese overlords (I am aware that there are prominent Indians in power in Singapore and that they do better than the Chinese in some economic terms, but let’s not kid ourselves here – at the end of the day, the people who truly rule Singapore are Chinese even if they are very “ecumenical” toward their Indian citizens).

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.
     
    Having read a Pew Survey about the country's attitudes towards China, I gotta wonder, if it's accurate, what we're doing selling F-35's to Singapore:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/30/chinas-international-image-remains-broadly-negative-as-views-of-the-u-s-rebound/

    Seems like a recipe for technology leakage. A while back, I read about a Singaporean-born researcher who worked as a talent spotter for Chinese intelligence.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53544505

    While this may be an exception, it should be setting alarms off among people in DC who set policy in regard to technology export controls.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  145. @nebulafox
    @Graham

    I've got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I’ve got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.

    1. Herodotus was a master storyteller, but a fantasist. He was no Thucydides.

    2. There is no question the ancients had “maps” – the question is over what maps were in their time.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    I'm aware... he's Da Vinci to Thucydides' Newton. IMO, the closer you get to the actual Greco-Persian Wars and the further you get from his attempts to be the first ethnographer as well as historian (first time I read this, I couldn't even get though the chapter on Egypt), the better he gets.

    Judging from the usual attitudes of Greco-Roman authors concerning decadent Orientals, being deemed "philobarbaros" ironically indicates that he's probably being reasonably even handed in his coverage of the conflict, on ancient standards, and makes me more apt to believe the core of the account, if not the details.

  146. @nebulafox
    @res

    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you've seen, res? India's got 22 official languages, some of which don't even share the same alphabet, let alone language family, so logical to ask.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you've got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country. It shouldn't be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora. In an age of globalization and anti-assimilation being the bien-pensant zeitgeist, such an entrenched attitude isn't going anywhere.

    Singapore's Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore's main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.) But then, Singapore's government could do things to encourage that which are not feasible in the US. The sole exception was a brief concern about local Tamils bankrolling the Tigers in Sri Lanka during that conflict back in the 1980s. But at the same time, Whitey Bulger and Co. were helping the IRA, and I doubt that conflicted with their American identity, so that probably doesn't prove anything.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @res

    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you’ve seen, res?

    I think there is, but I don’t have a good enough sense of caste to make reliable judgments.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you’ve got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country.

    Agreed.

    It shouldn’t be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora.

    IMHO a serious problem. If it didn’t matter, the contrast between Indian public views on race and their private views on caste (and race, I suspect) would be funny.

    Your comment about the assimilation of Indians in Singapore is thought provoking. It would be interesting to see a compare/contrast of Singapore with the US in that regard.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @res

    BTW, forgot to add: the "BJP in India, Democrat in US" voter exists. I've worked with them.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I'm deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    (You want the next China, look at Vietnam, which is roughly now where China was 15, 20 years ago. Boom boom booming economy, and they are really into cool tech stuff.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Twinkie

  147. @res
    @Twinkie


    As I understand, progeny regress to the mean of their own ancestors, not to that of the general Indian public. Parsis are still quite bright after all these years – they are highly endogamous, so their regression to the mean is not that of the general Indian public, to say the least. And Indians are perhaps the most endogamous of the major immigrant groups in the U.S.
     
    Agreed. But what I don't know is the mean of those ancestral groups. For example, Brahmins are the highest caste and are heavily overrepresented in the US. I suspect the average IQ of Brahmins in the US is high, but have no idea of the average for the caste back in India (which I think is the relevant mean). I have even less of a clue about the other castes.

    Thanks for pointing this out. I wrote inaccurately in haste. What I meant was among the major immigrant groups. Obviously there are bound to be smaller immigrant groups that are very highly selected, perhaps even more so than Indians, but at very different scales and relevant socio-economic implications upon the host country.
     
    Thanks for clarifying. That is what I guessed you meant (why I took care to make the point about Nigerian population size). I agree with you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    have no idea of the average for the caste back in India (which I think is the relevant mean). I have even less of a clue about the other castes.

    And of course we haven’t even explored the possibility of the Flynn Effect among Indians (esp. of the lower castes) since India still suffers from widespread malnutrition, pollution, and other environmental issues that retard IQ potential of the general public and even perhaps the upper segment of the population.

    I think data from India aren’t just unreliable – often they don’t exist. So much of the way we speak of Indians is highly conjectural, episodic/anecdotal, subjective, and/or otherwise subject to severe selection effect (of dealing with an immigrant population in the West).

    As India’s standard of living (and hygiene) improves, I am curious how much its population’s cognitive potential will grow. Perhaps it will reach the level of Europe or East Asia or perhaps there will still be certain genetic barriers to such heights (as seems to be the case with Indian lifespan – Indians seem to have serious, longstanding genetic issues that relate to poor cardiovascular health even with, or perhaps even worsened by, higher standards of living).

  148. @Whiskey
    @Chrisnonymous

    What, you seriously expect White guys to jump on grenades for White women after being told for the last 60 years they are evil, by the very same women?

    This is the world White women made. They turned out in mass numbers for George Floyd. They deserve to get their black thugs in full measure. White women have made it very, very clear they HATE HATE HATE the 95% of White men not Alpha, and side with black thugs.

    And government, the media, the fraudulent President, the Attorney General, states, the GOP, the Dems, the corporations, have all doubled down on this: White men genetically evil and with hereditary blood guilt, blacks all special and magical and racial redeemers.

    OK, message received. White women not relatives or wives/girlfriends of White men are on their own.

    And as strong empowered women, they should be happy. I figure most are. If White women want protection they better be relatives or trade exclusive sex with a White guy and never ever be out alone. Again this is the world they made and they should be happy about it.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Mike_from_SGV

    What is known (or not known at this time) of the racial makeup of the bystanders? This might be a Sailer’s Law type situation if the race of the participants is not disclosed, one could take an educated guess?

    As to bringing charges against bystanders making cell-phone movies of this, I get a sense that the police regard people recording such images for their prurient entertainment value, which is rather sick, rather than collecting evidence for the trial of the perpetrator? Occam’s Razor, bay-bee!

  149. It’s clear enough that there’s no parallel to it and has a basis in genetics, not culture, and that it does have an impact on the diaspora. They get very tetchy if you are white and point this out too bluntly, not that I give much of a damn these days.

    My main experience with Singapore’s non-Han is with Malays, who are the resident problem minority and do have some issues that the Indians don’t. So take what I say with a grain of salt. That said, a couple of things to point out:

    1) Nearly half of Singapore’s Indians are Tamil. Thanks to similar government assimilation policies that got all the Chinese to speak Mandarin instead of their native tongues, all Singaporean Indians speak the language. (It’s funny to see a pale skinned Sikh dude speaking it.) There’s no room for inter-group conflict as a result, and I suspect caste identify is as eroded in Singapore as it’ll ever be in a South Asian community.

    2) More importantly, the Singaporean and Malaysian Indians and Chinese have been there since the 1800s, i.e, they had centuries to be there. For the Chinese in particular, thanks to politics, there’s been a tremendous cultural divergence, but this applies to the Indians to a lesser extent, too. They retain their culture, of course, but that’s it, and as Twinkie said, they definitely don’t want mass immigration from India.

    Singapore has had some Indian techies come in for cheap coding labor, of course. But they are kept on a tight leash numerically and are expected to leave upon the contract ending. The Indians don’t complain because of the money, of course, but also because they are a lot closer to home and as such, Singapore is a prime destination for guys who might be married and want to stay closer to family. I did know one Indian (Sri Lankan, but whatever) guy who fell in love with a Singaporean Chinese woman, married her, and settled down and got citizenship, so there is a potential loophole there. But he was, to put it mildly, an exception on multiple levels.

    Singapore’s Malays also tend to hold dim views on their co-ethnics in Malaysia, coddled by AA, and Indonesia, for what it is worth. Everybody knows immigration of bumis isn’t going to happen, of course, no matter how verboten it is to say so in the media, so that question is academic, but they wouldn’t want it any more than the other two.

    3) Standard issue policies that are basically the antithesis of what the zeitgeist in the US political class is.

    Let me be clear. I don’t advocate that the US blithely imitate Singapore. For one thing, it wouldn’t work given the vast gap in our societies. For another thing, no matter how benevolent and competent Singapore’s softcore mandarinate is, it’s fundamentally incompatible with what I believe America is, and it shows. Singapore is great at providing the basics, but it isn’t where you go to change history and leave as big a legacy as you. America was, and still is, however quickly that’s changing. But there are certain things you do and you don’t do if your goal is to make your nation win long term, and to refuse to learn from others is stupid. It’s a little late now given the current situation to focus on such things, but ideally, the long term goal would be to emphasize an American identity that encourages as many groups as possible to get absorbed into the bloodstream, leaving those that don’t on the defensive. (And yes, this can’t be done without ceasing the influx of new arrivals, but we here all know that already.)

  150. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    Singapore’s Indians, for what it is worth, have assimilated quite well to their society, despite almost half not being Tamil. (Singapore’s main assimilation issue today, ironically, comes not from the local Malays or Indians but from mainland Chinese immigrants who bring mainland habits that LKY caned and fined their Singaporean counterparts out of in the 1970s.)
     
    Yeah, I think many Singaporean Indians vociferously oppose immigrants from India ("Don't bring your caste-ism here" and whatnot), rather as the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.

    That said, I do wonder whether Singapore's Indians would have stayed that way if they were in control of Singapore rather than having to be mindful of their Chinese overlords (I am aware that there are prominent Indians in power in Singapore and that they do better than the Chinese in some economic terms, but let's not kid ourselves here - at the end of the day, the people who truly rule Singapore are Chinese even if they are very "ecumenical" toward their Indian citizens).

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.

    Having read a Pew Survey about the country’s attitudes towards China, I gotta wonder, if it’s accurate, what we’re doing selling F-35’s to Singapore:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/30/chinas-international-image-remains-broadly-negative-as-views-of-the-u-s-rebound/

    Seems like a recipe for technology leakage. A while back, I read about a Singaporean-born researcher who worked as a talent spotter for Chinese intelligence.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53544505

    While this may be an exception, it should be setting alarms off among people in DC who set policy in regard to technology export controls.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Johann Ricke


    Having read a Pew Survey about the country’s attitudes towards China, I gotta wonder, if it’s accurate, what we’re doing selling F-35’s to Singapore
     
    Singaporeans have a relatively positive views of China (as a nation-state and its foreign activities), but does not have a positive view of Mainland Chinese immigrantsin Singapore.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/world/asia/in-singapore-vitriol-against-newcomers-from-mainland-china.html

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/rapid-growth-singapores-immigrant-population-brings-policy-challenges/
  151. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’ve got my Herodotus out right in front of me as I type this on my phone. He knew what a map was, contemporary accuracy aside.
     
    1. Herodotus was a master storyteller, but a fantasist. He was no Thucydides.

    2. There is no question the ancients had "maps" - the question is over what maps were in their time.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I’m aware… he’s Da Vinci to Thucydides’ Newton. IMO, the closer you get to the actual Greco-Persian Wars and the further you get from his attempts to be the first ethnographer as well as historian (first time I read this, I couldn’t even get though the chapter on Egypt), the better he gets.

    Judging from the usual attitudes of Greco-Roman authors concerning decadent Orientals, being deemed “philobarbaros” ironically indicates that he’s probably being reasonably even handed in his coverage of the conflict, on ancient standards, and makes me more apt to believe the core of the account, if not the details.

  152. @res
    @nebulafox


    Is there any substantial variation based on racial group or caste, from what you’ve seen, res?
     
    I think there is, but I don't have a good enough sense of caste to make reliable judgments.

    The way I see it, India has a degree of endogamy unparalleled anywhere else on Earth thanks to the caste system, so you’ve got thousands of self-contained genetic pools in the country.
     
    Agreed.

    It shouldn’t be shocking that the inevitable cultural attitudes that come from this spill over in the diaspora.
     
    IMHO a serious problem. If it didn't matter, the contrast between Indian public views on race and their private views on caste (and race, I suspect) would be funny.

    Your comment about the assimilation of Indians in Singapore is thought provoking. It would be interesting to see a compare/contrast of Singapore with the US in that regard.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    BTW, forgot to add: the “BJP in India, Democrat in US” voter exists. I’ve worked with them.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I’m deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    (You want the next China, look at Vietnam, which is roughly now where China was 15, 20 years ago. Boom boom booming economy, and they are really into cool tech stuff.)

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @nebulafox


    India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.
     
    Q: What is India's chief export?
    A: Indians
    , @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    the “BJP in India, Democrat in US” voter exists. I’ve worked with them.
     
    Heck yes. Very common. I've met numerous Hindu nationalists ("India for Hindus only, but USA should be for everyone!") among Indian immigrants in the U.S.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I’m deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.
     
    As you well know, China now has areas that offer First World living conditions and stability. India doesn't. Even for relatively wealthy and educated Indian people, the quality of life and security are often quite questionable outside highly segregated/protected areas.

    I suspect that Chinese immigration to the U.S. will decline greatly in the future as Japanese and Korean migration has, but Indian immigration (and brain drain) will continue for a generation or more.
  153. @bomag
    @Colin Wright

    I hit an awake time within an hour, which seems within a body's guessing ability.

    Maybe some people are more granular in time recognition, or they remember more vividly the times they hit quite close.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Maybe some people are more granular in time recognition, or they remember more vividly the times they hit quite close.’

    It’s true that I wouldn’t count on my brain to wake me up: at a guess, half the time the alarm does it.

    It’s just that other half of time, it’s unaccountably close.

    …and it’s not habit. I’m retired: these are things like airplane flights, and the loon who wants me to meet him at his house to go fishing at 4:30 am, and so on. One offs.

    Unlike our benighted forefathers, we can explain most things — but we haven’t yet (and perhaps never will) reach the point where we can explain all things.

    …sometimes in life there really are mysteries. There’s no point in just dismissing them.

  154. @Expletive Deleted
    @Gordo

    I think he cobbed the idea from electrical and early electronics schematics.

    (Damn. Now I'll have to go off into fathomless interwebs rabbit holes to stand this assertion up).

    Replies: @Gordo

    He was an Electrical Engineer so I would say that must be the case.

  155. @R.G. Camara
    The Taliban can't find Afghanistan on a map, but those boy-raping dope dealers beat the shit out of the U.S. military and now run Afghanistan.

    Priorities people.

    Replies: @byrresheim, @Sternhammer, @The Alarmist, @Gordo, @Bill Jones, @Partic, @Dale Entwhistle

    Actually, to be fair, the boy raping and even the drug dealing come even more from the other side. Not that I support the Taliban, but then I’m not Afghan so it’s not really my business who’s in charge there. I just don’t want a lot of them over here.

  156. @Anon
    @ic1000

    Lee was good because up until Meade and Grant, the Union generals sucked. Lee also had more talent underneath him than the Northern army in the Eastern theater did. In the West, the North had more talent than the south, which was why the Civil War began to be lost by the Confederates in the West.

    When the war started and the the various officer corps split, most of the services divided evenly--except for the topographical corps. Only 3 topographers went south, and all the rest went north. The north was much better off than the south was when it came to maps.

    After the Seven Days' Battles in front of Richmond, Confederate General D.H. Hill complained that there were places in central Africa that were better mapped than the immediate area outside the Confederate's own capital. Both Stonewall Jackson and 'Prince' John Magruder rather notoriously got entire divisions lost during those days, rendering themselves useless. Jackson found out the hard way that there was a difference between Old Cold Harbor and Cold Harbor, and Magruder didn't realize the road on his map spelled Enroughty was the one everyone was calling 'Darby.'

    As for Hannibal, he conquered because of his profound grasp of logistics. Getting elephants over the Alps was no mean feat, and he was able to keep his army in Italy for 15 years living off the land without being starved out because of mastery of logistics. Armies back in that era were prone to being starved out.

    Replies: @res, @Polistra

    Thanks. Wish you had a regular nickname around here so I could more easily follow your contributions.

  157. @nebulafox
    @res

    BTW, forgot to add: the "BJP in India, Democrat in US" voter exists. I've worked with them.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I'm deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    (You want the next China, look at Vietnam, which is roughly now where China was 15, 20 years ago. Boom boom booming economy, and they are really into cool tech stuff.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Twinkie

    India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    Q: What is India’s chief export?
    A: Indians

    • LOL: Twinkie
  158. @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    the Singapore Chinese seem to despise the uncouth nouveau riche Mainlanders who settle in Singapore.
     
    Having read a Pew Survey about the country's attitudes towards China, I gotta wonder, if it's accurate, what we're doing selling F-35's to Singapore:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/30/chinas-international-image-remains-broadly-negative-as-views-of-the-u-s-rebound/

    Seems like a recipe for technology leakage. A while back, I read about a Singaporean-born researcher who worked as a talent spotter for Chinese intelligence.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53544505

    While this may be an exception, it should be setting alarms off among people in DC who set policy in regard to technology export controls.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Having read a Pew Survey about the country’s attitudes towards China, I gotta wonder, if it’s accurate, what we’re doing selling F-35’s to Singapore

    Singaporeans have a relatively positive views of China (as a nation-state and its foreign activities), but does not have a positive view of Mainland Chinese immigrantsin Singapore.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/world/asia/in-singapore-vitriol-against-newcomers-from-mainland-china.html

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/rapid-growth-singapores-immigrant-population-brings-policy-challenges/

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  159. @nebulafox
    @res

    BTW, forgot to add: the "BJP in India, Democrat in US" voter exists. I've worked with them.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I'm deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    (You want the next China, look at Vietnam, which is roughly now where China was 15, 20 years ago. Boom boom booming economy, and they are really into cool tech stuff.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Twinkie

    the “BJP in India, Democrat in US” voter exists. I’ve worked with them.

    Heck yes. Very common. I’ve met numerous Hindu nationalists (“India for Hindus only, but USA should be for everyone!”) among Indian immigrants in the U.S.

    They say that India will attract people home like China has, but I’m deeply, deeply skeptical of that: my hunch is that India will probably remain a place people desperately want to get out of as the generational crush continues.

    As you well know, China now has areas that offer First World living conditions and stability. India doesn’t. Even for relatively wealthy and educated Indian people, the quality of life and security are often quite questionable outside highly segregated/protected areas.

    I suspect that Chinese immigration to the U.S. will decline greatly in the future as Japanese and Korean migration has, but Indian immigration (and brain drain) will continue for a generation or more.

  160. @Anon
    I’m sure there are such people, but I don’t know a single woman who can read a map.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alfa158, @Achmed E. Newman, @Gordo, @Mike_from_SGV

    Interesting. It makes me realize that when I want to go somewhere, I break out my paper map, or make one using Google maps; so I can get the big picture of where I am going. The wife, on the other hand, just prints out turn-by-turn instructions, with zero context about the general surroundings.

  161. @Whiskey
    @Chrisnonymous

    What, you seriously expect White guys to jump on grenades for White women after being told for the last 60 years they are evil, by the very same women?

    This is the world White women made. They turned out in mass numbers for George Floyd. They deserve to get their black thugs in full measure. White women have made it very, very clear they HATE HATE HATE the 95% of White men not Alpha, and side with black thugs.

    And government, the media, the fraudulent President, the Attorney General, states, the GOP, the Dems, the corporations, have all doubled down on this: White men genetically evil and with hereditary blood guilt, blacks all special and magical and racial redeemers.

    OK, message received. White women not relatives or wives/girlfriends of White men are on their own.

    And as strong empowered women, they should be happy. I figure most are. If White women want protection they better be relatives or trade exclusive sex with a White guy and never ever be out alone. Again this is the world they made and they should be happy about it.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Mike_from_SGV

    Precisely. They can’t have GRRRL PWR! and then turn around and expect help when they’re a damsel in distress.

  162. @kihowi
    It's a differences between the sexes thing. I've noticed that my wife doesn't look at the map on her gps. She will just listen to the instructions of the electronic lady (which has a godawful british accent btw, or should I say Bri'ish), and will get the wrong turn because she's not quite sure what "200 metres" is. Then I'll tell her to just look at the map, she'll explain that that's just impossible and will keep doing what she's doing. We're visual, women are not, plus they really really like to follow instructions.

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted, @S. Anonyia, @Lurker, @Mike_from_SGV

    “plus they really really like to follow instructions” This is why liberal organizations are packed with rule-following female cogs-in-the-machine, who have probably never had an original or insightful thought in their entire life, but damn are they good at following and implementing instructions.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The Shaping Event of Our Modern World
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement