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Sullivan: "The Establishment Will Never Say No to a War"
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From New York Magazine:

The Establishment Will Never Say No to a War
By Andrew Sullivan, 12/21/18

The question before us is a relatively simple one: What would be the criteria for removing our remaining troops from the Iraqi, Syrian, and more general Middle Eastern conflicts? Or, for that matter, from Afghanistan, where we have been trapped for more than 17 long years of still open-ended occupation?

If the answer to that question is that only when each of these countries is a healthy pro-American democracy, and Islamist terrorism has ceased to be an “enduring” threat to the West, then the answer, as the old Bob Mankoff joke has it, is “How about never — is never good for you?” …

Get that? After 17 years, we’ve gotten nowhere, like every single occupier before us. But for that reason, we have to stay. These commanders have been singing this tune year after year for 17 years of occupation, and secretaries of Defense have kept agreeing with them. Trump gave them one last surge of troops — violating his own campaign promise — and we got nowhere one more time. It is getting close to insane.

As far as anybody knows after 17 years of strenuously interviewing prisoners, the Taliban, while criminally negligent in hosting Osama bin Laden in 2001, weren’t involved in 9/11. They’ve been punished plenty for their sin of omission.

Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies. It just mutates constantly to find new ways to intervene, to perpetuate forever wars, to send more young Americans to die in countries that don’t want them amid populations that try to kill them. If you want the most recent proof of that, look at Yemen, where the Saudi policy of mass civilian deaths in a Sunni war on Shiites is backed by American arms and U.S. It’s also backed by American troops on the ground — in a secret war conducted by Green Berets that was concealed from Congress. There is no conceivable threat to the U.S. from the Houthi rebels in Yemen; and there was no prior congressional approval. Did you even know we had ground troops deployed there?

There’s actually been some Washington reaction against the war in Yemen the last few weeks as part of the Kashoggi whoop-te-doo.

 
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  1. Wow. Am I going to have to start respecting Andrew Sullivan? Years ago, he supported the Iraq War, so I never thought much of him. But maybe he’s seen the light.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Digital Samizdat

    Digital Samizdat wrote:


    Wow. Am I going to have to start respecting Andrew Sullivan? Years ago, he supported the Iraq War, so I never thought much of him. But maybe he’s seen the light.
     
    Sullivan is a weather vane -- he rarely gets out much in front of acceptable thinking, but when he does turn, it can be a sign that the mainstream is turning.

    We'll accept what allies we can get. A long time ago, someone whom Americans claim to honor said that "peace on earth" was a good thing.
  2. …open-ended occupation?

    He makes a very good point, and one overdue for the MSM. But, speaking of “MSMs”, he should be careful in his choice of words. This phrase, coming from the Curé of Arse himself, is a bit disturbing.

    violating

    Ditto.

    healthy…

    “How about never — is never good for you?”

    These concepts should be closer together.

    There is no conceivable threat to the U.S. from the Houthi rebels in Yemen…

    …until they emigrate.

    …the Kashoggi whoop-te-doo.

    Sounds like the dance craze of 2019.

    • Replies: @donut
    @Reg Cæsar

    "the Kashoggi whoop-te-doo."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yQ1ZPbyT8

  3. “How about never…” is apparently also the answer to “When can Americans be first in their own calculus?” It is all very complicated you see, or rather cannot see, because we cannot trust you with the truth. You might behave selfishly, and attempt to withdraw your commitment to the project.

  4. Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.

    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I'm happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @dfordoom, @Prester John, @Dave Pinsen

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Reg Cæsar

    They were and are also wrong on culture war issues. These are, after all, recycled Trotskyites and Trotsky advocated an even more poisonous brand of communism than Stalin.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    No, they're not really on our side (assuming you are a traditionalist) in the culture-war either. If you doubt that, ask "Giselle" Donnelly.
    , @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    'The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.'

    ? Neoconservatives aren't conservative at all. As a rule, they're for come one, come all, are pro-choice, decry anything that smacks of racism, etc, etc.

    Their sole concern is getting the US to serve Israel, and they're merely 'conservative' because they find the Republican Party a more convenient means to that end than the Democrats. They'd be Greens if it meant we'd invade Iran.

  5. I remember when Andrew Sullivan wrote pro-Iraq war screeds for the Sunday Times, glad to see he has evolved.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @LondonBob

    Evolved? Or has he just changed his meds? Is he still on testosterone? You don't hear about him as much as you used to. I wonder if his bellicosity tracked his testosterone usage.

  6. My favorite Christmas song (after the Nutcracker Suite) from Clarence Carter:

  7. You really have to read the whole article to see what a nutjob Sullivan is. Trump may not be perfect but Sullivan has serious TDS. Best is that he finishes his article trashing Trump’s character and values by explaining that he is a crazy curmudgeon warped by uncurable childhood trauma.

    • Agree: Travis, Daniel H
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Chrisnonymous


    Trump may not be perfect but Sullivan has serious TDS.
     
    I don't think Sullivan had a chance of getting that piece published in any MSM outlet without an ostentatious show of TDS in at least one paragraph. It's pretty much de rigueur nowadays in opinion pieces.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  8. @Reg Cæsar

    Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.
     
    The definition of a "neoconservative" seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I’m happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @Pincher Martin

    Coup insurance.

    , @dfordoom
    @Pincher Martin



    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.
     
    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can't recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war. In fact it's arguable that the rise of the neocons was a huge contributing factor to the loss of the culture wars.

    I find it difficult to think of any issue on which neocons have ever been anything other than dead wrong.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    , @Prester John
    @Pincher Martin

    Score at least one for Trump. Enough of the Syria shit! Am hoping against hope that an Afghan evac is next on the agenda, followed by a general pullout. 7 thousand American dead (not to mention hundreds of thousands of otherwise innocent goat herders) and six trillion dollars for what??

    As to Mattis, good question, but on the other hand Trump remains a novice in the Beltway World.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Pincher Martin

    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1076660762502930433

    https://twitter.com/EddyElfenbein/status/1076506480344530944

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Chrisnonymous

  9. Long-revered black American author Alice Walker is under attack by the New York Times etc and the Jewish community, for supporting Palestinians and for citing the Jewish supremacy claims in the Jewish holy book, the Talmud

    Alice Walker, born 1944, is one of the most honoured American writers, her famous Pulitzer Prize novel ‘The Colour Purple’ (1982) about a young black girl, became a 1985 Steven Spielberg film.

    But Alice Walker finds now that Jews > blacks

    Walker is being denounced as an ‘anti-Semite’ etc, after being in Palestine and horrified at what she saw and learned of Palestinians under Israeli occupation … and for learning from various sources about Jewish historical culture

    Alice Walker has published a poem, ‘It is Our (Frightful) Duty to Study the Talmud’
    http://alicewalkersgarden.com/2017/11/it-is-our-frightful-duty-to-study-the-talmud/
    (The Talmud has parts of what most know as the Old Testament Bible, with commentary by ancient Jewish rabbis – for Jews the Talmud is at the centre of religious thought, more than the Bible books themselves.)

    Alice Walker writes:

    I have witnessed Palestine
    Under Israeli rule. It is demonic
    To the core. But where to look
    For the inspiration
    For so much evil?

    It is our duty, I believe, to study The Talmud.
    It is within this book that,
    I believe, we will find answers
    To some of the questions
    That most perplex us.

    Are Goyim (us) meant to be slaves of Jews, and not only
    That, but to enjoy it?

    The Palestinians of Gaza
    The most obvious representatives of us
    At the present time – are a cruel example of what may be done
    With impunity, and without conscience,
    By a Chosen people,
    To the vast majority of the people
    On the planet
    Who were not Chosen.
    Not chosen to receive the same dubious
    “Blessing” of
    Supremacy over the Earth

  10. Yes, there is no threat to America from rebels in Yemen, that comes latter when they make their way to our shore. Read about the Lackawanna Six if you need an example.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Buffalo Joe

    Then tighten up the borders and make it harder for Middle Eastern nitwits to become US citizens.

    If six naturalized American citizens can cause you to participate in a joint genocide against an entire people in the country from whence those immigrants came, and whose government has never directly threatened you, then your moral compass needs not just a serious readjustment, but a damn good smashing.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

  11. Yemen is the mother of all forever wars. Back in the mid 1960s, Life (or Look) Magazine had cover stories on the civil war in Yemen. At that time Nasser was backing one side and damned if I can remember who was backing the other. The communist backed faction was using some type of poison gas against its opponents. One Life (or Look) cover had a gruesome closeup of one gas victim’s corpse.

    BTW, IIRC, this was the one of those times, at which the infamous Harvard professor, Matthew Meselson, argued against overwhelming evidence that such gas attacks had not occurred. He later went on to argue that poisoned bee shit – something never seen before or since – was responsible for the “yellow rains” which killed hundreds of anti-Vietcong Hmong villagers and which most assumed was actually some type of nerve agent used by the NVA. Later Meselson argued that an Anthrax outbreak near a Soviet bio-weapons plant was due to a natural outbreak of the disease rather than an accidental release of weaponized Anthrax from the site. Later investigations, after the collapse of the USSR, showed that the outbreak was indeed due to weaponized Anthrax. Meselson is a perfect example of the prog apologists for communist atrocities that polluted the world scene back then. His misdeeds should not be forgotten. However, as a reward for his faithful disservices to humanity, Wikipedia provides a carefully bowdlerized version of his criminal facilitation. A little internet research establishes the truth. The infamy of such men should, indeed must, be retained in the historical record.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri, RVBlake
    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    The current criticism from Congress is by those who liked the old Saudi faction that lost the power struggle to MBS, and liberally spread its oil money around DC.

    Same thing about the non-stop MSM whining over Khashoggi.

    https://redice.tv/a/i/c/16/12/pinochet023.jpg

    Replies: @Abe, @Pincher Martin, @PhysicistDave

  12. Seeing as Sullied is part of the establishment, he would know.

    The guy is a creep and a twink hound who AFAICT has never been right about anything.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Andrew Sullivan's husband is a fellow bear, not a twink.

    http://harvardmagazine.com/sites/default/files/styles/4x3_main/public/img/article/0411/MJ11S2_0.jpg

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

  13. @Reg Cæsar

    Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.
     
    The definition of a "neoconservative" seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    They were and are also wrong on culture war issues. These are, after all, recycled Trotskyites and Trotsky advocated an even more poisonous brand of communism than Stalin.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jus' Sayin'...


    They were and are also wrong on culture war issues.
     
    You're saying Vidal was right about buggery? Eww...
  14. open-ended occupation

    I thought this sort of thing was right up Sullivan’s alley?

  15. @Buffalo Joe
    Yes, there is no threat to America from rebels in Yemen, that comes latter when they make their way to our shore. Read about the Lackawanna Six if you need an example.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @snorlax

    Then tighten up the borders and make it harder for Middle Eastern nitwits to become US citizens.

    If six naturalized American citizens can cause you to participate in a joint genocide against an entire people in the country from whence those immigrants came, and whose government has never directly threatened you, then your moral compass needs not just a serious readjustment, but a damn good smashing.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Pincher Martin

    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

  16. anon[210] • Disclaimer says:

    The argument is Syria is primarily with those wanting to enlarge the scope of the war to include mixing it up with Iran, Russia, Assad, newly imagined obligations to ‘partners’, or just because. And with those who wish to argue that the Islamic State might not be sufficiently defeated.

    Initially, the MSM was fairly open about the desires to expand the war, but now is falling back on the second line of argument order to frame the issue as one concerning Trump’s prudence.

    And we have seen the resignations of Trump’s staff who saw their duty as resisting Trump’s policy objectives. No wonder that he had to tweet the decision. Its obvious that with advanced notice, they would have used the time to to continue to resist.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @anon

    Which allies are we betraying in Syrexit? Besides Israel.

  17. the Taliban, while criminally negligent in hosting Osama bin Laden in 2001, weren’t involved in 9/11.

    Uh, how exactly were the Taliban “criminally negligent”?

    • Replies: @SND
    @Anonymous

    So true. Steve is such a normie on foreign policy. Taliban said to US: show us some evidence & we'll consider turning him over. US to Taliban: evidence? we don't need no stinkin' evidence! Taliban to US: no deal. Thus Taliban "criminally negligent." Besides Steve has little idea who were or "weren't involved in 9/11."

    Replies: @Lot, @snorlax

  18. When has a general ever NOT been for war?

    Eisenhower being the exception we haven’t produced a lot of great statesman or political heavyweights from the ranks of our generals. George Washington stands alone and was a unique case.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Polynikes

    Major General Smedley Butler, USMC?

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @Polynikes

    How about George Mashall?

  19. The Deep State won’t allow us to simply leave the mire of misery that is Syria. Nope too much Soros profit on the line.

    Soros needs more billions so lots of Americans need to sacrifice life and limb.

  20. @Buffalo Joe
    Yes, there is no threat to America from rebels in Yemen, that comes latter when they make their way to our shore. Read about the Lackawanna Six if you need an example.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @snorlax

    The Houthi rebels’ motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is

    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam

    I’m not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @snorlax

    Clause 2 explains why Mr. Anschutz killed the Weekly Standard. He reasoned, no doubt correctly, that murdering the Standard would satisfy the second clause for the Houthis. Mr. Anschutz has made a great sacrifice for all of us.

    , @Paleo
    @snorlax

    The Saudis are no more favorable to the United States in the long run than the Houthis. They have funded Wahhabism for decades. If we waged or condoned war against every country that despises the United States we would have to fight the entire Islamic civilization. Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world. The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs. Israel’s long term prospects are dim, maybe not within my lifetime, but eventually they will be overwhelmed by their more numerous, hostile neighbors. The same fate awaits Europe as well, but hopefully there is still time to turn it around.
    Now good Christian American men must shed their blood at the behest of the Jewish lobby. Is that justice?

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Reg Cæsar, @LondonBob

    , @PhysicistDave
    @snorlax

    snorlax wrote:


    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.
     
    The problem is that they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians in the process.

    And your points 1 and 3-5 are just standard rhetoric in the Muslim world, a bit like "making the world safe for democracy." In fact, an awfully good case can be made that the pro-democracy slogans have led to more innocent deaths in the last century than the crazy Muslim slogans.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Ibound1
    @snorlax

    Totally agree. With one addition: No one who lives there can ever move here.

    , @Pincher Martin
    @snorlax


    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.
     
    Perhaps you don't remember all the Saudis who were involved in 9/11 and who would have found nothing objectionable to the content in the Houthi rebels’ motto.
  21. @anon
    The argument is Syria is primarily with those wanting to enlarge the scope of the war to include mixing it up with Iran, Russia, Assad, newly imagined obligations to 'partners', or just because. And with those who wish to argue that the Islamic State might not be sufficiently defeated.

    Initially, the MSM was fairly open about the desires to expand the war, but now is falling back on the second line of argument order to frame the issue as one concerning Trump's prudence.

    And we have seen the resignations of Trump's staff who saw their duty as resisting Trump's policy objectives. No wonder that he had to tweet the decision. Its obvious that with advanced notice, they would have used the time to to continue to resist.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    Which allies are we betraying in Syrexit? Besides Israel.

  22. @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

    Clause 2 explains why Mr. Anschutz killed the Weekly Standard. He reasoned, no doubt correctly, that murdering the Standard would satisfy the second clause for the Houthis. Mr. Anschutz has made a great sacrifice for all of us.

  23. @Digital Samizdat
    Wow. Am I going to have to start respecting Andrew Sullivan? Years ago, he supported the Iraq War, so I never thought much of him. But maybe he's seen the light.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Digital Samizdat wrote:

    Wow. Am I going to have to start respecting Andrew Sullivan? Years ago, he supported the Iraq War, so I never thought much of him. But maybe he’s seen the light.

    Sullivan is a weather vane — he rarely gets out much in front of acceptable thinking, but when he does turn, it can be a sign that the mainstream is turning.

    We’ll accept what allies we can get. A long time ago, someone whom Americans claim to honor said that “peace on earth” was a good thing.

  24. @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

    The Saudis are no more favorable to the United States in the long run than the Houthis. They have funded Wahhabism for decades. If we waged or condoned war against every country that despises the United States we would have to fight the entire Islamic civilization. Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world. The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs. Israel’s long term prospects are dim, maybe not within my lifetime, but eventually they will be overwhelmed by their more numerous, hostile neighbors. The same fate awaits Europe as well, but hopefully there is still time to turn it around.
    Now good Christian American men must shed their blood at the behest of the Jewish lobby. Is that justice?

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Paleo

    Interesting comment; I've often thought Israel may suffer the same fate as the Crusader Kingdoms.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo


    Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world.
     
    As we are constantly reminded, Jerusalem is only the third holiest city in Islam. (Though they always leave out the "only".) Mecca and Medina are the "heart of the Islamic world", and by their prophet's command, we kaffirs aren't even allowed to tread on their magic dirt.

    The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs.
     
    The Ashkenazi are irrelevant. The Oriental Jews have been in the Middle East all along, and know the Arabs to the extent Southerners knew (and know) blacks. They are the heart of the Likudnik enterprise, not the airheaded EuroJews with their fluffy Christian baggage like "Arabs have human rights, too." (Arabs themselves don't seem to have gotten that message, judging by their own regimes.)
    , @LondonBob
    @Paleo

    I thought recent research, not that I particularly follow it, shows ancestry around the black Sea with Ashkenaz being in NE Turkey and then the whole Khazar thing, which is why Yiddish has Slavic roots.

    https://theconversation.com/ashkenazic-jews-mysterious-origins-unravelled-by-scientists-thanks-to-ancient-dna-97962

    Replies: @Paleo

  25. @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

    snorlax wrote:

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    The problem is that they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians in the process.

    And your points 1 and 3-5 are just standard rhetoric in the Muslim world, a bit like “making the world safe for democracy.” In fact, an awfully good case can be made that the pro-democracy slogans have led to more innocent deaths in the last century than the crazy Muslim slogans.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @PhysicistDave


    In fact, an awfully good case can be made that the pro-democracy slogans have led to more innocent deaths in the last century than the crazy Muslim slogans.
     
    Agreed.
  26. Neoconservatism is taking on cuckservative traits, so we are witnessing the emergence of a new ideology :

    NeoCuckservatism.

  27. @LondonBob
    I remember when Andrew Sullivan wrote pro-Iraq war screeds for the Sunday Times, glad to see he has evolved.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Evolved? Or has he just changed his meds? Is he still on testosterone? You don’t hear about him as much as you used to. I wonder if his bellicosity tracked his testosterone usage.

  28. @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

    Totally agree. With one addition: No one who lives there can ever move here.

  29. @Anonymous

    the Taliban, while criminally negligent in hosting Osama bin Laden in 2001, weren’t involved in 9/11.
     
    Uh, how exactly were the Taliban "criminally negligent"?

    Replies: @SND

    So true. Steve is such a normie on foreign policy. Taliban said to US: show us some evidence & we’ll consider turning him over. US to Taliban: evidence? we don’t need no stinkin’ evidence! Taliban to US: no deal. Thus Taliban “criminally negligent.” Besides Steve has little idea who were or “weren’t involved in 9/11.”

    • Replies: @Lot
    @SND

    "Besides Steve has little idea who were or “weren’t involved in 9/11.”

    The joos! The joos!

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/cms/binary/5385084.jpg?size=640x420

    http://www.zombietime.com/berkeley_marines_2-12-2008/part_2/IMG_1440.JPG

    https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/54243684/look-marge-im-a-911-truther.jpg

    Replies: @anon

    , @snorlax
    @SND

    The Taliban said they would turn him over to the Saudis but not to us.

  30. @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I'm happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @dfordoom, @Prester John, @Dave Pinsen

    Coup insurance.

  31. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Yemen is the mother of all forever wars. Back in the mid 1960s, Life (or Look) Magazine had cover stories on the civil war in Yemen. At that time Nasser was backing one side and damned if I can remember who was backing the other. The communist backed faction was using some type of poison gas against its opponents. One Life (or Look) cover had a gruesome closeup of one gas victim's corpse.

    BTW, IIRC, this was the one of those times, at which the infamous Harvard professor, Matthew Meselson, argued against overwhelming evidence that such gas attacks had not occurred. He later went on to argue that poisoned bee shit - something never seen before or since - was responsible for the "yellow rains" which killed hundreds of anti-Vietcong Hmong villagers and which most assumed was actually some type of nerve agent used by the NVA. Later Meselson argued that an Anthrax outbreak near a Soviet bio-weapons plant was due to a natural outbreak of the disease rather than an accidental release of weaponized Anthrax from the site. Later investigations, after the collapse of the USSR, showed that the outbreak was indeed due to weaponized Anthrax. Meselson is a perfect example of the prog apologists for communist atrocities that polluted the world scene back then. His misdeeds should not be forgotten. However, as a reward for his faithful disservices to humanity, Wikipedia provides a carefully bowdlerized version of his criminal facilitation. A little internet research establishes the truth. The infamy of such men should, indeed must, be retained in the historical record.

    Replies: @Lot

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    The current criticism from Congress is by those who liked the old Saudi faction that lost the power struggle to MBS, and liberally spread its oil money around DC.

    Same thing about the non-stop MSM whining over Khashoggi.

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Lot


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there,
     
    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come. I’m assuming the creation of an Iran-controlled Shia regime in Yemen could make either of this possibilities a bit more likelier.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @RonaldB, @AnotherDad

    , @Pincher Martin
    @Lot


    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.
     
    So far. But that's the beauty of endless war - if that number ever changes, it's not like you'll change your mind.

    In the meantime, the war still costs money and without a sane immigration/refugee policy provides the U.S. with endless stream of future Americans we could do without.


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there.
     
    Why? Because we support each other in meaningless wars we never plan to win? We could use fewer allies like that.

    Replies: @gcochran

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Lot

    Lot wrote:


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.
     
    MBS is "our guy"? ?

    Well... he's not my guy. Maybe MBS is no worse than the average corrupt, slightly insane, viciously murderous Mideastern dictator... but I have slightly higher standards than "not as bad as Joe Stalin."

    Let the Arabs resolve Arab problems without our picking sides, especially when both sides are truly evil. If they ever decide they need our "good offices" to actually make peace, by all means let 'em meet at Camp David.

    But, as J. Q. Adams said (and he was merely expressing the general sentiment of our country at the time):

    Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
     
    America for Americans; the Mideast for Mideaasterners. Who knows -- someday the insanity that presently grips the Mideast may pass. I wish them well.
  32. @Pincher Martin
    @Buffalo Joe

    Then tighten up the borders and make it harder for Middle Eastern nitwits to become US citizens.

    If six naturalized American citizens can cause you to participate in a joint genocide against an entire people in the country from whence those immigrants came, and whose government has never directly threatened you, then your moral compass needs not just a serious readjustment, but a damn good smashing.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Buffalo Joe


    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.
     
    According to Wikipedia, they were "friends from childhood in Yemen [-] all six are naturalized American citizens."

    But even if Wikipedia is inaccurate, the U.S. still could have avoided dealing with these young traitors if it had a sane immigration policy. We didn't need their Yemeni fathers here, either.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  33. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Seeing as Sullied is part of the establishment, he would know.

    The guy is a creep and a twink hound who AFAICT has never been right about anything.

    Replies: @Lot

    Andrew Sullivan’s husband is a fellow bear, not a twink.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lot

    Look at the dead-eyed, thousand yard stare of the dog on Sullivan's lap. He must have been witness to some truly horrific things living in that household.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Lot

    Being married to a bear is not mutually exclusive with being a twink hound. I mean, twinks may be a good time, but are you really gonna put a ring on that?

  34. @Polynikes
    When has a general ever NOT been for war?

    Eisenhower being the exception we haven't produced a lot of great statesman or political heavyweights from the ranks of our generals. George Washington stands alone and was a unique case.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Diversity Heretic

    Major General Smedley Butler, USMC?

  35. @Reg Cæsar

    Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.
     
    The definition of a "neoconservative" seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    No, they’re not really on our side (assuming you are a traditionalist) in the culture-war either. If you doubt that, ask “Giselle” Donnelly.

  36. @SND
    @Anonymous

    So true. Steve is such a normie on foreign policy. Taliban said to US: show us some evidence & we'll consider turning him over. US to Taliban: evidence? we don't need no stinkin' evidence! Taliban to US: no deal. Thus Taliban "criminally negligent." Besides Steve has little idea who were or "weren't involved in 9/11."

    Replies: @Lot, @snorlax

    “Besides Steve has little idea who were or “weren’t involved in 9/11.”

    The joos! The joos!

    • Replies: @anon
    @Lot

    these idiots probably think the joos run Hollywood too

  37. @Chrisnonymous
    You really have to read the whole article to see what a nutjob Sullivan is. Trump may not be perfect but Sullivan has serious TDS. Best is that he finishes his article trashing Trump's character and values by explaining that he is a crazy curmudgeon warped by uncurable childhood trauma.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Trump may not be perfect but Sullivan has serious TDS.

    I don’t think Sullivan had a chance of getting that piece published in any MSM outlet without an ostentatious show of TDS in at least one paragraph. It’s pretty much de rigueur nowadays in opinion pieces.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @PiltdownMan

    No way. Sullivan's anti-Trump rhetoric is honest and from-the-heart. He's been rabidly anti-Trump since the beginning. See, for example, his pre-election article calling Trump a tyrant that ends with


    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.
     
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

    Sullivan is just unhinged TDS quintessence.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  38. @Lot
    @SND

    "Besides Steve has little idea who were or “weren’t involved in 9/11.”

    The joos! The joos!

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/cms/binary/5385084.jpg?size=640x420

    http://www.zombietime.com/berkeley_marines_2-12-2008/part_2/IMG_1440.JPG

    https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/54243684/look-marge-im-a-911-truther.jpg

    Replies: @anon

    these idiots probably think the joos run Hollywood too

  39. If people called for war to save Palestinians from Zionist settler-invaders in West Bank, the Establishment will say NO.

    ‘Save the Kurds from enemies of Israel’ is grounds for war. ‘Save the Palestinians from Zionists backed by US Jews’ is never grounds for war.

  40. @SND
    @Anonymous

    So true. Steve is such a normie on foreign policy. Taliban said to US: show us some evidence & we'll consider turning him over. US to Taliban: evidence? we don't need no stinkin' evidence! Taliban to US: no deal. Thus Taliban "criminally negligent." Besides Steve has little idea who were or "weren't involved in 9/11."

    Replies: @Lot, @snorlax

    The Taliban said they would turn him over to the Saudis but not to us.

  41. @Polynikes
    When has a general ever NOT been for war?

    Eisenhower being the exception we haven't produced a lot of great statesman or political heavyweights from the ranks of our generals. George Washington stands alone and was a unique case.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Diversity Heretic

    How about George Mashall?

  42. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.

    Because it is never properly named for what it really is. Jewish Globalist Supremacism. All these wars are not about democracy or liberation. US has been just fine with Saudi Arabia and didn’t lift a finger to liberate Palestinians from liberation. It’s about Jewish Power using US muscle to take out or weaken perceived rivals of Israel. Also, Neoconservatism is joined at the hip with Liberal Zionism. Neocons push for hard war, Liberal Zionists push for soft war. And they work together. Hard war is smashing or encircling the enemies of Israel or Jewish interests with US or NATO power. So, the Middle East and North Africa have been up in flames. Israel has good relations with Russia, but World Jewry hates Russia, and so, Russia must be encircled. If neocons control the military wing of Jewish globo-hegemony, Liberal Zionists control the cultural wing by promoting worship of Jews, Homos, and Blacks to all the world. Homomania is the favorite neo-missionary zeal of the Liberal Zionists. Recruit homos of every nation, shower them with money, and use them to promote minority-supremacism. Via the backdoor of Homomania, rest of Jewish power and globalism sneak in.

    It’s good for Sullivan to criticize these wars, but he has been a total tool of Liberal Zionist globo-hom nonsense.

    Anyway, if you can’t name the thing honestly, it’s pointless. If Nazism sold itself as a missionary movement to ‘save the world’ and if people went along with the charade, it would lasted a long time.

  43. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    If Afghanistan should have turned Osama over to the US, shouldn’t the US hand over Obama to Libyans? Or face the consequences. A gangster world. It’s not about principles but the power. US has the power and gets away with any number of crimes. Just how the world really works.

  44. @Paleo
    @snorlax

    The Saudis are no more favorable to the United States in the long run than the Houthis. They have funded Wahhabism for decades. If we waged or condoned war against every country that despises the United States we would have to fight the entire Islamic civilization. Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world. The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs. Israel’s long term prospects are dim, maybe not within my lifetime, but eventually they will be overwhelmed by their more numerous, hostile neighbors. The same fate awaits Europe as well, but hopefully there is still time to turn it around.
    Now good Christian American men must shed their blood at the behest of the Jewish lobby. Is that justice?

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Reg Cæsar, @LondonBob

    Interesting comment; I’ve often thought Israel may suffer the same fate as the Crusader Kingdoms.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Diversity Heretic

    I've thought the same thing but now I'm skeptical. Arab militaries are just appallingly bad. Recent history seems to confirm this. When civil war broke out in Syria, 5 million Syrians, including lots of fighting age men, just left rather than fight for their country. And ISIS was the worst of the worst. Illiterate savages with rifles and RPGs. Syria's professional military still couldn't defeat them without Russia, Iran, and the Lebanese Hezbollah. I remember watching a video of Syrian tank operations. Zero coordinated tactics.

    Remember Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait? All the wealthy Kuwaitis left. I might have too. Kuwait isn't a real country--it's just some sheik's city-state that we pretend is an actual, serious country. Unless you're related to the sheik, there's not really anything to fight for, and that's kind of the whole tragedy of the Middle East. Nobody really cares about their "country" because they don't really exist in that sense. They've been vassals of successive empires for over two millenia. They were drawn up and "given" independence by the British and French.

    To their credit, they are beginning to evolve a nationalist sensibility. Syrians are becoming "Syrian," not just members of various clans all knifing each other in the ribs. Same for Jordan and Iraq. The Lebanese are extremely nationalist so long as nobody tips the apple cart.

    It's a healthy sentiment which should be encouraged instead of the US squatting in Syria to prop up a landlocked, disruptive Kurdish autonomous region.

  45. Sullivan is right on all counts except one: it is no longer “close” to insane.

  46. @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I'm happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @dfordoom, @Prester John, @Dave Pinsen

    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can’t recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war. In fact it’s arguable that the rise of the neocons was a huge contributing factor to the loss of the culture wars.

    I find it difficult to think of any issue on which neocons have ever been anything other than dead wrong.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @dfordoom


    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can’t recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war.
     
    I can't remember many (if any) neocons who were for tax cuts. Most of them started off as Democrats (or even further to the left), and some of them stayed Democrats. They were quite comfortable with a large state sector, but made the transition to the right in the 1960s and 1970s primarily because of the GOP's positions on 1) the Cold War, 2) Israel, and 3) social issues like crime.

    Did a single neocon focus on tax cuts and reducing the size of the state? A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

    But they didn't want to lose the Cold War. They didn't want the U.S. to adopt an antagonistic attitude toward the Jewish state. And they weren't comfortable with many of the Democratic Party's new crazy positions on social policies (like crime). Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  47. @PhysicistDave
    @snorlax

    snorlax wrote:


    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.
     
    The problem is that they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians in the process.

    And your points 1 and 3-5 are just standard rhetoric in the Muslim world, a bit like "making the world safe for democracy." In fact, an awfully good case can be made that the pro-democracy slogans have led to more innocent deaths in the last century than the crazy Muslim slogans.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    In fact, an awfully good case can be made that the pro-democracy slogans have led to more innocent deaths in the last century than the crazy Muslim slogans.

    Agreed.

  48. @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I'm happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @dfordoom, @Prester John, @Dave Pinsen

    Score at least one for Trump. Enough of the Syria shit! Am hoping against hope that an Afghan evac is next on the agenda, followed by a general pullout. 7 thousand American dead (not to mention hundreds of thousands of otherwise innocent goat herders) and six trillion dollars for what??

    As to Mattis, good question, but on the other hand Trump remains a novice in the Beltway World.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Prester John


    As to Mattis, good question, but on the other hand Trump remains a novice in the Beltway World.
     
    But even a novice should've recognized that Mattis was a bad pick when John McCain and Lindsey Graham starting dancing a jig after their man was nominated to be the SecDef.
  49. @Lot
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    The current criticism from Congress is by those who liked the old Saudi faction that lost the power struggle to MBS, and liberally spread its oil money around DC.

    Same thing about the non-stop MSM whining over Khashoggi.

    https://redice.tv/a/i/c/16/12/pinochet023.jpg

    Replies: @Abe, @Pincher Martin, @PhysicistDave

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there,

    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come. I’m assuming the creation of an Iran-controlled Shia regime in Yemen could make either of this possibilities a bit more likelier.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Abe

    But it would work with Trump's cheap money and manufacturing agenda. American labor would become a lot cheaper, and it would be much easier to start manufacturing a lot in the US again. American exports would get cheaper and more competitive.

    , @RonaldB
    @Abe



    If ... those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world [separated from Saudi Arabia]- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity

     

    I edited your statement a bit. I apologize if I got the intent wrong, which I don't think I did.

    The big stick that Saudi Arabia has over the US is that the Saudis finance US deficit spending by using their excess dollars to purchase treasuries. This masks the effects of deficit spending, which all things being equal, produces inflation. With the exponential increase in deficit spending, going into trillions annually, we are probably looking at hyperinflation, all looking to be triggered by a huge bond selloff by the Saudis (and Chinese).

    A government that spends within its means is far less susceptible to economic manipulation by outside money. If the US government spent within its means, it really wouldn't matter who had access to the oceans of money generated by Saudi oil, whoever owned it. North America is more than able to produce its own oil, once regulations and stupid inefficient requirements such as the energy-sucking ethanol additive are rescinded.

    Eventually, the party will end. It's better it end now than after we've dug further into the hole.
    , @AnotherDad
    @Abe


    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come.
     
    Uh, no. These breathless baroque pull-out-this-key-block-and-the-financial-apocalypse-awaits fantasies are just wrong.

    The US dollar has been the world's premier reserve currency since the end of World War II, because … uh … more people want to use it.

    Largely because:
    a) the US is/was the world's largest economy so plenty of trade and investment opportunities and
    b) it's "safe", ie. the US won't steal your loot--they may inflate it away, but the US won't just steal it
    So plenty of people use the dollar so your use the dollar.

    This has eroded as the US is a smaller portion of the world economy, but has maintained preeminence largely because there is no great replacement. (Like a lot of things, the US would be in terrible shape ... but for the shape everyone else is in!)

    This seigniorage also isn't a big a deal as you think. It's probably worth about $100b/year to the US. It doesn't even pay the real costs of our large illegal alien population. We'd be better off not being a reserve currency and kicking the illegals out. You'll note the the obvious competitor, the Chinese, even as their economy has caught up in size to the US, has not pushed to have the yuan grab pride of place but rather have kept the yuan loosely tied to a currency basket and their monetary operations fairly opaque (and in service of Chinese manufactoring).

    As Anonymous points out, if/when the US dollar slips in its role as world's reserve currency, that makes people in the US poorer--in terms of buying foreign goods (cars, electronics)--but actually improves the competive advantage of US corporations. Manufactoring will tend to return to the US.

    ~~

    No, there isn't some secret "key" block that knocked out brings it all tumbling down for the US.

    Rather what's bringing down the US is precisely the focus of this blog--HBD.

    As the white boomers--like me--leave the labor force we are not being replaced one for one with our equally smart and conscientious children. (I've done my part, most smart whites have not.) Rather we are being replaced by a more "people of color"y--heavily Latin--labor force which is dumber, less conscientious, less productive.

    The US isn't going out with a bang, but rather with an ooze--oozing toward being a more productive but uglier version of Brazil. (With our tedious leftist harridans sucking the fun out of pretty much everything.)

    This, of course, is hideous--a shitty future for my kids--and what "racist!" "Nazi!", "hater!", "Hitler!"s like me would like to stop.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

  50. @Lot
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Andrew Sullivan's husband is a fellow bear, not a twink.

    http://harvardmagazine.com/sites/default/files/styles/4x3_main/public/img/article/0411/MJ11S2_0.jpg

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Look at the dead-eyed, thousand yard stare of the dog on Sullivan’s lap. He must have been witness to some truly horrific things living in that household.

  51. @Abe
    @Lot


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there,
     
    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come. I’m assuming the creation of an Iran-controlled Shia regime in Yemen could make either of this possibilities a bit more likelier.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @RonaldB, @AnotherDad

    But it would work with Trump’s cheap money and manufacturing agenda. American labor would become a lot cheaper, and it would be much easier to start manufacturing a lot in the US again. American exports would get cheaper and more competitive.

  52. @dfordoom
    @Pincher Martin



    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.
     
    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can't recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war. In fact it's arguable that the rise of the neocons was a huge contributing factor to the loss of the culture wars.

    I find it difficult to think of any issue on which neocons have ever been anything other than dead wrong.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can’t recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war.

    I can’t remember many (if any) neocons who were for tax cuts. Most of them started off as Democrats (or even further to the left), and some of them stayed Democrats. They were quite comfortable with a large state sector, but made the transition to the right in the 1960s and 1970s primarily because of the GOP’s positions on 1) the Cold War, 2) Israel, and 3) social issues like crime.

    Did a single neocon focus on tax cuts and reducing the size of the state? A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

    But they didn’t want to lose the Cold War. They didn’t want the U.S. to adopt an antagonistic attitude toward the Jewish state. And they weren’t comfortable with many of the Democratic Party’s new crazy positions on social policies (like crime). Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Pincher Martin


    Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

     

    And Charles Murray.

    A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

     

    Sadly, a lot of folks here and on the alt-right in general seem to agree. "The welfare state would work fine if we just got rid of those pesky Jews!"

    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Anonymous

  53. @Buffalo Joe
    @Pincher Martin

    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.

    According to Wikipedia, they were “friends from childhood in Yemen [-] all six are naturalized American citizens.”

    But even if Wikipedia is inaccurate, the U.S. still could have avoided dealing with these young traitors if it had a sane immigration policy. We didn’t need their Yemeni fathers here, either.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Pincher Martin

    Pincher, we are good. I am Buffalo born and raised and Lackawanna is just down Rte.5, south of the city. So the L-6 was big news here. Merry Christmas my friend.

  54. @snorlax
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Houthi rebels' motto, adopted decades before America had anything to do with Yemen, is


    Allahu Akbar
    Death to America
    Death to Israel
    A Curse Upon the Jews
    Victory to Islam
     
    I'm not particularly big on any of those. I understand there are differing opinions on this site WRT Clauses 3 and 4, but Clause 2 seems pretty objectively undesirable.

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton, @Paleo, @PhysicistDave, @Ibound1, @Pincher Martin

    If the Saudis want to take them out while buying $billions of weapons from us in order to do so, good on them.

    Perhaps you don’t remember all the Saudis who were involved in 9/11 and who would have found nothing objectionable to the content in the Houthi rebels’ motto.

  55. @Reg Cæsar

    Neoconservatism, it seems, never dies.
     
    The definition of a "neoconservative" seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    ‘The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.’

    ? Neoconservatives aren’t conservative at all. As a rule, they’re for come one, come all, are pro-choice, decry anything that smacks of racism, etc, etc.

    Their sole concern is getting the US to serve Israel, and they’re merely ‘conservative’ because they find the Republican Party a more convenient means to that end than the Democrats. They’d be Greens if it meant we’d invade Iran.

  56. @Lot
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    The current criticism from Congress is by those who liked the old Saudi faction that lost the power struggle to MBS, and liberally spread its oil money around DC.

    Same thing about the non-stop MSM whining over Khashoggi.

    https://redice.tv/a/i/c/16/12/pinochet023.jpg

    Replies: @Abe, @Pincher Martin, @PhysicistDave

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    So far. But that’s the beauty of endless war – if that number ever changes, it’s not like you’ll change your mind.

    In the meantime, the war still costs money and without a sane immigration/refugee policy provides the U.S. with endless stream of future Americans we could do without.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there.

    Why? Because we support each other in meaningless wars we never plan to win? We could use fewer allies like that.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @gcochran
    @Pincher Martin

    Enemies can be a lot cheaper than allies.

  57. @PiltdownMan
    @Chrisnonymous


    Trump may not be perfect but Sullivan has serious TDS.
     
    I don't think Sullivan had a chance of getting that piece published in any MSM outlet without an ostentatious show of TDS in at least one paragraph. It's pretty much de rigueur nowadays in opinion pieces.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    No way. Sullivan’s anti-Trump rhetoric is honest and from-the-heart. He’s been rabidly anti-Trump since the beginning. See, for example, his pre-election article calling Trump a tyrant that ends with

    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

    Sullivan is just unhinged TDS quintessence.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Chrisnonymous


    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.

     

    Trump has five children. What Andrew was doing at Bareback City 20 years ago is the extinction-level event.

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/6021912-the-legendary-milky-loads-ad

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  58. @Lot
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Andrew Sullivan's husband is a fellow bear, not a twink.

    http://harvardmagazine.com/sites/default/files/styles/4x3_main/public/img/article/0411/MJ11S2_0.jpg

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Being married to a bear is not mutually exclusive with being a twink hound. I mean, twinks may be a good time, but are you really gonna put a ring on that?

  59. I’m surprised Sullivan is still alive, after all his bare-backing and bug-chasing.

  60. @Lot
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    The current criticism from Congress is by those who liked the old Saudi faction that lost the power struggle to MBS, and liberally spread its oil money around DC.

    Same thing about the non-stop MSM whining over Khashoggi.

    https://redice.tv/a/i/c/16/12/pinochet023.jpg

    Replies: @Abe, @Pincher Martin, @PhysicistDave

    Lot wrote:

    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there, in support of the legitimate internationally recognized government, is not a problem at our current level of involvement.

    MBS is “our guy”? ?

    Well… he’s not my guy. Maybe MBS is no worse than the average corrupt, slightly insane, viciously murderous Mideastern dictator… but I have slightly higher standards than “not as bad as Joe Stalin.”

    Let the Arabs resolve Arab problems without our picking sides, especially when both sides are truly evil. If they ever decide they need our “good offices” to actually make peace, by all means let ’em meet at Camp David.

    But, as J. Q. Adams said (and he was merely expressing the general sentiment of our country at the time):

    Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America’s] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

    America for Americans; the Mideast for Mideaasterners. Who knows — someday the insanity that presently grips the Mideast may pass. I wish them well.

  61. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Reg Cæsar

    They were and are also wrong on culture war issues. These are, after all, recycled Trotskyites and Trotsky advocated an even more poisonous brand of communism than Stalin.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    They were and are also wrong on culture war issues.

    You’re saying Vidal was right about buggery? Eww…

  62. @Paleo
    @snorlax

    The Saudis are no more favorable to the United States in the long run than the Houthis. They have funded Wahhabism for decades. If we waged or condoned war against every country that despises the United States we would have to fight the entire Islamic civilization. Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world. The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs. Israel’s long term prospects are dim, maybe not within my lifetime, but eventually they will be overwhelmed by their more numerous, hostile neighbors. The same fate awaits Europe as well, but hopefully there is still time to turn it around.
    Now good Christian American men must shed their blood at the behest of the Jewish lobby. Is that justice?

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Reg Cæsar, @LondonBob

    Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world.

    As we are constantly reminded, Jerusalem is only the third holiest city in Islam. (Though they always leave out the “only”.) Mecca and Medina are the “heart of the Islamic world”, and by their prophet’s command, we kaffirs aren’t even allowed to tread on their magic dirt.

    The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs.

    The Ashkenazi are irrelevant. The Oriental Jews have been in the Middle East all along, and know the Arabs to the extent Southerners knew (and know) blacks. They are the heart of the Likudnik enterprise, not the airheaded EuroJews with their fluffy Christian baggage like “Arabs have human rights, too.” (Arabs themselves don’t seem to have gotten that message, judging by their own regimes.)

  63. @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    The definition of a “neoconservative” seems to be someone who is right in the culture wars, but wrong in the war wars.
     
    Neocons no longer concern themselves much with the culture wars.

    *****

    I'm happy Trump has decided to decamp from Syria. After all, avoiding prolonged military engagements was part of his 2016 campaign. But what was the guy thinking by hiring Mattis in the first place?

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @dfordoom, @Prester John, @Dave Pinsen

    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Dave Pinsen


    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.
     
    I personally love Trumpism, but can't stand Trump. The man comes with all these strange character defects and personality quirks that have turned his administration's policy-making process into such a contradictory mess. You highlight one example in your post. I find it all too believable that Trump picked Mattis because of how he looked and sounded.

    From the beginning, Mattis was fully on board the John McCain/Lindsey Graham choo-choo train to national security oblivion. But Trump picked him as his SecDef anyway, much to the delight of the neocons and never-Trumpers. Even worse, President Trump followed the general down certain well-trod rabbit holes that candidate Trump said he would not do.

    So I can't give Trump credit for doing something he should've never done in the first place.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, is that the Financial Times in your tweet? Do you really read that shit? I have to read it for my ESL job, and sometimes after we pick apart an article, a student looks at me, like, what was the point of printing this? and, frankly, I don't have an answer for them.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  64. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Okay, let’s keep US troops in the Middle East. But since ISIS is defeated, let’s have the US military work to protect Syria from Israeli aggression. And let’s have the US military aid Syria to regain Golan Heights that was stolen by Israel. And let’s send US troops into West Bank to protect Palestinians from Zionist-settler-imperialists.

    Yes, ‘isolationism’ sure sucks. US must be World Police. It must protect weaker nations from stronger ones. Since Israel periodically attacks Syria but not vice versa, US must protect Syria from Israel. And since Zionists continue to occupy West Bank and steal land, the righteous thing for US military is to protect Palestinians from further invasion and land theft.

    Everyone wins! Neocons and Deep State get to keep the US military in the Middle East, and we get to watch the US military carry out noble duties on behalf of much beleaguered peoples.

  65. @Chrisnonymous
    @PiltdownMan

    No way. Sullivan's anti-Trump rhetoric is honest and from-the-heart. He's been rabidly anti-Trump since the beginning. See, for example, his pre-election article calling Trump a tyrant that ends with


    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.
     
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

    Sullivan is just unhinged TDS quintessence.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.

    Trump has five children. What Andrew was doing at Bareback City 20 years ago is the extinction-level event.

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/6021912-the-legendary-milky-loads-ad

    • LOL: Abe
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Reg Cæsar


    Trump has five children.
     
    Consider that for a moment. That's as many as the last three administrations, lasting 24 years, put together. He got us out of a trough.

    It wasn't the first, though. The Truman-Nixon stretch only produced nine children, ten if you count the Kennedy that lived a day or two.

    The Ford-Bush I era was quite fecund, by today's standards. All had at least four, though in Reagan's case that meant burying one baby and adopting another.

    Replies: @Rob McX

  66. @Pincher Martin
    @dfordoom


    Were they ever concerned with the culture wars? I can’t recall hearing a neocon ever get passionate about anything other than tax cuts and war.
     
    I can't remember many (if any) neocons who were for tax cuts. Most of them started off as Democrats (or even further to the left), and some of them stayed Democrats. They were quite comfortable with a large state sector, but made the transition to the right in the 1960s and 1970s primarily because of the GOP's positions on 1) the Cold War, 2) Israel, and 3) social issues like crime.

    Did a single neocon focus on tax cuts and reducing the size of the state? A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

    But they didn't want to lose the Cold War. They didn't want the U.S. to adopt an antagonistic attitude toward the Jewish state. And they weren't comfortable with many of the Democratic Party's new crazy positions on social policies (like crime). Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

    And Charles Murray.

    A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

    Sadly, a lot of folks here and on the alt-right in general seem to agree. “The welfare state would work fine if we just got rid of those pesky Jews!”

    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    @Reg Cæsar


    And Charles Murray.
     
    Was Charles Murray ever on the left or in the Democratic Party? As a public figure dating back to the early eighties, I've always identified him as a Reagan-style libertarian.
    , @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar


    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.
     
    What do you mean?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  67. @Reg Cæsar
    @Chrisnonymous


    In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event.

     

    Trump has five children. What Andrew was doing at Bareback City 20 years ago is the extinction-level event.

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/6021912-the-legendary-milky-loads-ad

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Trump has five children.

    Consider that for a moment. That’s as many as the last three administrations, lasting 24 years, put together. He got us out of a trough.

    It wasn’t the first, though. The Truman-Nixon stretch only produced nine children, ten if you count the Kennedy that lived a day or two.

    The Ford-Bush I era was quite fecund, by today’s standards. All had at least four, though in Reagan’s case that meant burying one baby and adopting another.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Reg Cæsar

    South African president Jacob Zuma makes them all look like monks. So far he's produced the equivalent of at least half a century of US presidential progeny. Estimates of the fruit of his loins vary from the low 20s to nearly 40.

  68. “As far as anybody knows after 17 years of strenuously interviewing prisoners, the Taliban, while criminally negligent in hosting Osama bin Laden in 2001, weren’t involved in 9/11.”

    Careless and hardly true. Apparently, you don’t have grasp of how the Taliban exist in the country or you would not be making that claim. it’s shallow truth. And serves to be the excuse you claim others engage in to make needless war.

    The Taliban were barely a confederate of communities –

  69. @Dave Pinsen
    @Pincher Martin

    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1076660762502930433

    https://twitter.com/EddyElfenbein/status/1076506480344530944

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Chrisnonymous

    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.

    I personally love Trumpism, but can’t stand Trump. The man comes with all these strange character defects and personality quirks that have turned his administration’s policy-making process into such a contradictory mess. You highlight one example in your post. I find it all too believable that Trump picked Mattis because of how he looked and sounded.

    From the beginning, Mattis was fully on board the John McCain/Lindsey Graham choo-choo train to national security oblivion. But Trump picked him as his SecDef anyway, much to the delight of the neocons and never-Trumpers. Even worse, President Trump followed the general down certain well-trod rabbit holes that candidate Trump said he would not do.

    So I can’t give Trump credit for doing something he should’ve never done in the first place.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Pincher Martin


    The man comes with all these strange character defects and personality quirks that have turned his administration’s policy-making process into such a contradictory mess.
     
    Really? Like what? Every time there's some conflict where Trump bumps heads with staff, it's blamed on Trump. He's the President. What the fuck are his people doing opposing him and trying to overturn the election by leading him into policies he ran against? Yeah, you can say he should pick other people, but who? All the experience is in the opposition.

    Trump is grating, but when he doesn't see eye to eye with his staff and they leave instead of carrying out his policies, I can't put that at Trump's feet.
  70. @Reg Cæsar
    @Pincher Martin


    Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

     

    And Charles Murray.

    A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

     

    Sadly, a lot of folks here and on the alt-right in general seem to agree. "The welfare state would work fine if we just got rid of those pesky Jews!"

    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Anonymous

    And Charles Murray.

    Was Charles Murray ever on the left or in the Democratic Party? As a public figure dating back to the early eighties, I’ve always identified him as a Reagan-style libertarian.

  71. @Prester John
    @Pincher Martin

    Score at least one for Trump. Enough of the Syria shit! Am hoping against hope that an Afghan evac is next on the agenda, followed by a general pullout. 7 thousand American dead (not to mention hundreds of thousands of otherwise innocent goat herders) and six trillion dollars for what??

    As to Mattis, good question, but on the other hand Trump remains a novice in the Beltway World.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin

    As to Mattis, good question, but on the other hand Trump remains a novice in the Beltway World.

    But even a novice should’ve recognized that Mattis was a bad pick when John McCain and Lindsey Graham starting dancing a jig after their man was nominated to be the SecDef.

  72. @Dave Pinsen
    @Pincher Martin

    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1076660762502930433

    https://twitter.com/EddyElfenbein/status/1076506480344530944

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Chrisnonymous

    Dave, is that the Financial Times in your tweet? Do you really read that shit? I have to read it for my ESL job, and sometimes after we pick apart an article, a student looks at me, like, what was the point of printing this? and, frankly, I don’t have an answer for them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Chrisnonymous


    and sometimes after we pick apart an article, a student looks at me, like, what was the point of printing this?
     
    Could you give us some examples?
  73. @Pincher Martin
    @Dave Pinsen


    Trump seems to put a lot of weight into appearances. Mattis looks a little like George C. Scott, who played Patton.
     
    I personally love Trumpism, but can't stand Trump. The man comes with all these strange character defects and personality quirks that have turned his administration's policy-making process into such a contradictory mess. You highlight one example in your post. I find it all too believable that Trump picked Mattis because of how he looked and sounded.

    From the beginning, Mattis was fully on board the John McCain/Lindsey Graham choo-choo train to national security oblivion. But Trump picked him as his SecDef anyway, much to the delight of the neocons and never-Trumpers. Even worse, President Trump followed the general down certain well-trod rabbit holes that candidate Trump said he would not do.

    So I can't give Trump credit for doing something he should've never done in the first place.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    The man comes with all these strange character defects and personality quirks that have turned his administration’s policy-making process into such a contradictory mess.

    Really? Like what? Every time there’s some conflict where Trump bumps heads with staff, it’s blamed on Trump. He’s the President. What the fuck are his people doing opposing him and trying to overturn the election by leading him into policies he ran against? Yeah, you can say he should pick other people, but who? All the experience is in the opposition.

    Trump is grating, but when he doesn’t see eye to eye with his staff and they leave instead of carrying out his policies, I can’t put that at Trump’s feet.

  74. @Pincher Martin
    @Lot


    Our involvement in Yemen, as best as I can tell, has resulted in one American KIA over the past two years.
     
    So far. But that's the beauty of endless war - if that number ever changes, it's not like you'll change your mind.

    In the meantime, the war still costs money and without a sane immigration/refugee policy provides the U.S. with endless stream of future Americans we could do without.


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there.
     
    Why? Because we support each other in meaningless wars we never plan to win? We could use fewer allies like that.

    Replies: @gcochran

    Enemies can be a lot cheaper than allies.

  75. @Paleo
    @snorlax

    The Saudis are no more favorable to the United States in the long run than the Houthis. They have funded Wahhabism for decades. If we waged or condoned war against every country that despises the United States we would have to fight the entire Islamic civilization. Jews made a mistake establishing their country post-WWII in the heart of the Islamic world. The Ashkenazic Jews are highly admixed with significant European ancestry, hence having departed two millennia ago, they have no more right to the Levant than the Arabs. Israel’s long term prospects are dim, maybe not within my lifetime, but eventually they will be overwhelmed by their more numerous, hostile neighbors. The same fate awaits Europe as well, but hopefully there is still time to turn it around.
    Now good Christian American men must shed their blood at the behest of the Jewish lobby. Is that justice?

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Reg Cæsar, @LondonBob

    I thought recent research, not that I particularly follow it, shows ancestry around the black Sea with Ashkenaz being in NE Turkey and then the whole Khazar thing, which is why Yiddish has Slavic roots.

    https://theconversation.com/ashkenazic-jews-mysterious-origins-unravelled-by-scientists-thanks-to-ancient-dna-97962

    • Replies: @Paleo
    @LondonBob

    AJ have major Southern European admixture. See:

    https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006644

    As to the other commenter, Netanyahu is Ashkenazi as is Avigdor Lieberman. Most of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi and they’re not all soft on the Arabs.

  76. https://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/j/jubilationtcornponelilabnerthemusical.html
    JUBILATION T. CORNPONE
    Lil’ Abner : The Musical (1956)

    When we fought the Yankees and annihilation was near,
    Who was there to lead the charge that took us safe to the rear?
    Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone;
    Old “Toot your own horn – pone.”
    Jubilation T. Cornpone, a man who knew no fear!

    When we almost had ’em but the issue still was in doubt,
    Who suggested the retreat that turned it into a rout?
    Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone;
    Old “Tattered and torn – pone.”
    Jubilation T. Cornpone, he kept us hidin’ out!

    Though he’s gone to his reward, his mighty torch is still lit.
    First in war. First in peace. First to holler, “I quit!”

    One of the main problems of the Confederacy was inability to force its members to wholeheartedly contribute to the war effort.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_D%27Aubuisson

    D’Aubuisson was American trained, the Green Berets trained the Salvadorian army.

    https://chomsky.info/unclesam09/
    Jesuit journal America by Daniel Santiago, a Catholic priest working in El Salvador. He tells of a peasant woman who returned home one day to find her three children, her mother and her sister sitting around a table, each with its own decapitated head placed carefully on the table in front of the body, the hands arranged on top “as if each body was stroking its own head.”

    The assassins, from the Salvadoran National Guard, had found it hard to keep the head of an 18-month-old baby in place, so they nailed the hands onto it. A large plastic bowl filled with blood was tastefully displayed in the center of the table.

    According to Rev. Santiago, macabre scenes of this kind aren’t uncommon. People are not just killed by death squads in El Salvador-they are decapitated and then their heads are placed on pikes and used to dot the landscape. Men are not just disemboweled by the Salvadoran Treasury Police; their severed genitalia are stuffed into their mouths. Salvadoran women are not just raped by the National Guard; their wombs are cut from their bodies and used to cover their faces. It is not enough to kill children; they are dragged over barbed wire until the flesh falls from their bones, while parents are forced to watch.

    The Neocons thought you could have a pure foreign policy and forster liberal democracies (instead of t aiding dictatorships in slaughtering their own populations as with Reagan era in Central America). But as that Guatemalan general said, to win you must provide development for a third of the rebel area population, force another third to flee, and kill the remaining third. If you are serious you must go after the families, and the neighbors and their families. This is currently being done in Iraq by Iraqis and has destroyed any prospect of Islamic State coming back. It really will not do to have Green Beret’s doing stuff like that, so they need to be withdrawn from Syria right quick.

    Afghanistan is a Pakistani sphere of influence and they want the elements of the Taliban to remain as a cat’s paw to keep Indian influence out. Time for the US to leave.

    Yemen is quite different, Saudi Arabia is an ally of the US, and thus the Saudis fighting Iranian backed rebels in a country next door to them have the right to expect the US to stand with them. Of course America IS defending itself in Yemen, it is defending its reputation. Failure to do so would prove America lacked determination to defend its friends, which is a two way street.

    China provided all the help Sri Lanka needed to crush the Tamils. (HOW China Got Sri Lanka to Cough Up a Port) China gave Pakistan missile parts and probably assistance in a nuke warheads.

    China has emerged as an all-weather ally of Pakistan, where it has launched several development projects with an investment of over USD 50 billion under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), as part of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s ambitious Border and Road Initiative (BR

    Russia sends a bomber to Venezuela. If America did not back those on the periphery of its bloc then it would find its allies defecting. Iran used to be America’s cop on the beat in the Middle East, and look at the trouble Iran’s defection caused. When someone who has been trusted defects, all remaining loyal are looking to see what happens; maybe the defector can improve their position. America has to punish and bleed Iran and never leave it alone so that everyone can see and be reminded which side their bread is buttered. Britain is being punished for Brexit by France and Germany for much the same reason as why Russia tried to kill Sergei “Scumbag” Skirpal and his daughter.

    Yes Virginia, it is all necessary.

  77. @LondonBob
    @Paleo

    I thought recent research, not that I particularly follow it, shows ancestry around the black Sea with Ashkenaz being in NE Turkey and then the whole Khazar thing, which is why Yiddish has Slavic roots.

    https://theconversation.com/ashkenazic-jews-mysterious-origins-unravelled-by-scientists-thanks-to-ancient-dna-97962

    Replies: @Paleo

    AJ have major Southern European admixture. See:

    https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006644

    As to the other commenter, Netanyahu is Ashkenazi as is Avigdor Lieberman. Most of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi and they’re not all soft on the Arabs.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    ...open-ended occupation?
     
    He makes a very good point, and one overdue for the MSM. But, speaking of "MSMs", he should be careful in his choice of words. This phrase, coming from the Curé of Arse himself, is a bit disturbing.

    violating
     
    Ditto.



    healthy...

    “How about never — is never good for you?”
     
    These concepts should be closer together.

    There is no conceivable threat to the U.S. from the Houthi rebels in Yemen...
     
    ...until they emigrate.

    ...the Kashoggi whoop-te-doo.
     
    Sounds like the dance craze of 2019.

    Replies: @donut

    “the Kashoggi whoop-te-doo.”

  79. @Abe
    @Lot


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there,
     
    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come. I’m assuming the creation of an Iran-controlled Shia regime in Yemen could make either of this possibilities a bit more likelier.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @RonaldB, @AnotherDad

    If … those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world [separated from Saudi Arabia]- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity

    I edited your statement a bit. I apologize if I got the intent wrong, which I don’t think I did.

    The big stick that Saudi Arabia has over the US is that the Saudis finance US deficit spending by using their excess dollars to purchase treasuries. This masks the effects of deficit spending, which all things being equal, produces inflation. With the exponential increase in deficit spending, going into trillions annually, we are probably looking at hyperinflation, all looking to be triggered by a huge bond selloff by the Saudis (and Chinese).

    A government that spends within its means is far less susceptible to economic manipulation by outside money. If the US government spent within its means, it really wouldn’t matter who had access to the oceans of money generated by Saudi oil, whoever owned it. North America is more than able to produce its own oil, once regulations and stupid inefficient requirements such as the energy-sucking ethanol additive are rescinded.

    Eventually, the party will end. It’s better it end now than after we’ve dug further into the hole.

  80. @Diversity Heretic
    @Paleo

    Interesting comment; I've often thought Israel may suffer the same fate as the Crusader Kingdoms.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    I’ve thought the same thing but now I’m skeptical. Arab militaries are just appallingly bad. Recent history seems to confirm this. When civil war broke out in Syria, 5 million Syrians, including lots of fighting age men, just left rather than fight for their country. And ISIS was the worst of the worst. Illiterate savages with rifles and RPGs. Syria’s professional military still couldn’t defeat them without Russia, Iran, and the Lebanese Hezbollah. I remember watching a video of Syrian tank operations. Zero coordinated tactics.

    Remember Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait? All the wealthy Kuwaitis left. I might have too. Kuwait isn’t a real country–it’s just some sheik’s city-state that we pretend is an actual, serious country. Unless you’re related to the sheik, there’s not really anything to fight for, and that’s kind of the whole tragedy of the Middle East. Nobody really cares about their “country” because they don’t really exist in that sense. They’ve been vassals of successive empires for over two millenia. They were drawn up and “given” independence by the British and French.

    To their credit, they are beginning to evolve a nationalist sensibility. Syrians are becoming “Syrian,” not just members of various clans all knifing each other in the ribs. Same for Jordan and Iraq. The Lebanese are extremely nationalist so long as nobody tips the apple cart.

    It’s a healthy sentiment which should be encouraged instead of the US squatting in Syria to prop up a landlocked, disruptive Kurdish autonomous region.

  81. @Reg Cæsar
    @Pincher Martin


    Hence we got men like James Q. Wilson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

     

    And Charles Murray.

    A few of them may have gone along to get along with their new political allies, but most were comfortable with a large social welfare state and everything it entailed.

     

    Sadly, a lot of folks here and on the alt-right in general seem to agree. "The welfare state would work fine if we just got rid of those pesky Jews!"

    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.

    Replies: @Pincher Martin, @Anonymous

    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.

    What do you mean?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    What do you mean?

     

    It paid our admission into a show called "The Great War".

    I'll keep note of your number. I already recognize your style.
  82. @Chrisnonymous
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, is that the Financial Times in your tweet? Do you really read that shit? I have to read it for my ESL job, and sometimes after we pick apart an article, a student looks at me, like, what was the point of printing this? and, frankly, I don't have an answer for them.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    and sometimes after we pick apart an article, a student looks at me, like, what was the point of printing this?

    Could you give us some examples?

  83. @Abe
    @Lot


    The Saudis overall suck, sure, but MBS is our guy over there. Helping him out with his proxy war against Iran there,
     
    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come. I’m assuming the creation of an Iran-controlled Shia regime in Yemen could make either of this possibilities a bit more likelier.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @RonaldB, @AnotherDad

    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come.

    Uh, no. These breathless baroque pull-out-this-key-block-and-the-financial-apocalypse-awaits fantasies are just wrong.

    The US dollar has been the world’s premier reserve currency since the end of World War II, because … uh … more people want to use it.

    Largely because:
    a) the US is/was the world’s largest economy so plenty of trade and investment opportunities and
    b) it’s “safe”, ie. the US won’t steal your loot–they may inflate it away, but the US won’t just steal it
    So plenty of people use the dollar so your use the dollar.

    This has eroded as the US is a smaller portion of the world economy, but has maintained preeminence largely because there is no great replacement. (Like a lot of things, the US would be in terrible shape … but for the shape everyone else is in!)

    This seigniorage also isn’t a big a deal as you think. It’s probably worth about $100b/year to the US. It doesn’t even pay the real costs of our large illegal alien population. We’d be better off not being a reserve currency and kicking the illegals out. You’ll note the the obvious competitor, the Chinese, even as their economy has caught up in size to the US, has not pushed to have the yuan grab pride of place but rather have kept the yuan loosely tied to a currency basket and their monetary operations fairly opaque (and in service of Chinese manufactoring).

    As Anonymous points out, if/when the US dollar slips in its role as world’s reserve currency, that makes people in the US poorer–in terms of buying foreign goods (cars, electronics)–but actually improves the competive advantage of US corporations. Manufactoring will tend to return to the US.

    ~~

    No, there isn’t some secret “key” block that knocked out brings it all tumbling down for the US.

    Rather what’s bringing down the US is precisely the focus of this blog–HBD.

    As the white boomers–like me–leave the labor force we are not being replaced one for one with our equally smart and conscientious children. (I’ve done my part, most smart whites have not.) Rather we are being replaced by a more “people of color”y–heavily Latin–labor force which is dumber, less conscientious, less productive.

    The US isn’t going out with a bang, but rather with an ooze–oozing toward being a more productive but uglier version of Brazil. (With our tedious leftist harridans sucking the fun out of pretty much everything.)

    This, of course, is hideous–a shitty future for my kids–and what “racist!” “Nazi!”, “hater!”, “Hitler!”s like me would like to stop.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @AnotherDad

    Excellent comment.

  84. @Pincher Martin
    @Buffalo Joe


    Pincher, your comment is confusing to me. The Lackawanna Six were US citizens, most born and raised in Lackawanna, NY. Their fathers , Yemeni immigrants, were well employed in WNY at such places as Bethlehem Steel, the Ford stamping plant and Sorento Cheese. My moral compass is fine as I never said we should go to war against an entire country.
     
    According to Wikipedia, they were "friends from childhood in Yemen [-] all six are naturalized American citizens."

    But even if Wikipedia is inaccurate, the U.S. still could have avoided dealing with these young traitors if it had a sane immigration policy. We didn't need their Yemeni fathers here, either.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Pincher, we are good. I am Buffalo born and raised and Lackawanna is just down Rte.5, south of the city. So the L-6 was big news here. Merry Christmas my friend.

  85. @Reg Cæsar
    @Reg Cæsar


    Trump has five children.
     
    Consider that for a moment. That's as many as the last three administrations, lasting 24 years, put together. He got us out of a trough.

    It wasn't the first, though. The Truman-Nixon stretch only produced nine children, ten if you count the Kennedy that lived a day or two.

    The Ford-Bush I era was quite fecund, by today's standards. All had at least four, though in Reagan's case that meant burying one baby and adopting another.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    South African president Jacob Zuma makes them all look like monks. So far he’s produced the equivalent of at least half a century of US presidential progeny. Estimates of the fruit of his loins vary from the low 20s to nearly 40.

  86. @AnotherDad
    @Abe


    Right. Saudis Arabia is a key strategic ally, maybe the most important American ally in practice right now. If a Saudi regime hostile to America came to power, or- Allah forbid- there was a Shia takeover of the country or at least a secession of those Shia-heavy provinces that also happen to be atop some of the most productive oil fields in the world- this would be- through the end of the petro-dollar and the consequent erosion of the dollar’s purchase power- a tangible, real blow to American prosperity which even the little guy on the street would feel for GENERATIONS to come.
     
    Uh, no. These breathless baroque pull-out-this-key-block-and-the-financial-apocalypse-awaits fantasies are just wrong.

    The US dollar has been the world's premier reserve currency since the end of World War II, because … uh … more people want to use it.

    Largely because:
    a) the US is/was the world's largest economy so plenty of trade and investment opportunities and
    b) it's "safe", ie. the US won't steal your loot--they may inflate it away, but the US won't just steal it
    So plenty of people use the dollar so your use the dollar.

    This has eroded as the US is a smaller portion of the world economy, but has maintained preeminence largely because there is no great replacement. (Like a lot of things, the US would be in terrible shape ... but for the shape everyone else is in!)

    This seigniorage also isn't a big a deal as you think. It's probably worth about $100b/year to the US. It doesn't even pay the real costs of our large illegal alien population. We'd be better off not being a reserve currency and kicking the illegals out. You'll note the the obvious competitor, the Chinese, even as their economy has caught up in size to the US, has not pushed to have the yuan grab pride of place but rather have kept the yuan loosely tied to a currency basket and their monetary operations fairly opaque (and in service of Chinese manufactoring).

    As Anonymous points out, if/when the US dollar slips in its role as world's reserve currency, that makes people in the US poorer--in terms of buying foreign goods (cars, electronics)--but actually improves the competive advantage of US corporations. Manufactoring will tend to return to the US.

    ~~

    No, there isn't some secret "key" block that knocked out brings it all tumbling down for the US.

    Rather what's bringing down the US is precisely the focus of this blog--HBD.

    As the white boomers--like me--leave the labor force we are not being replaced one for one with our equally smart and conscientious children. (I've done my part, most smart whites have not.) Rather we are being replaced by a more "people of color"y--heavily Latin--labor force which is dumber, less conscientious, less productive.

    The US isn't going out with a bang, but rather with an ooze--oozing toward being a more productive but uglier version of Brazil. (With our tedious leftist harridans sucking the fun out of pretty much everything.)

    This, of course, is hideous--a shitty future for my kids--and what "racist!" "Nazi!", "hater!", "Hitler!"s like me would like to stop.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Excellent comment.

  87. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar


    Nobody but hardcore lefties believed this 100 years ago. The income tax had already blown up in their faces.
     
    What do you mean?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What do you mean?

    It paid our admission into a show called “The Great War”.

    I’ll keep note of your number. I already recognize your style.

  88. I’ve said it here before – white boycott of the military, or at of least the Army and Marines. Let ’em send Latisha and Mauricio to fight their useless wars, if they dare. (They won’t.) It’s going to happen anyway, coming third-world America will have a third-world military, and adventurin’ they won’t go. Dying in these wars is like dying for Vietnamization in 1971 – pointless. No, it’s worse than that. Fighting for scum who are killing your people back home is criminal. Treasonous conservatives have made sure you get no quid pro quo for your sacrifices, only more destruction. Fighting for this system is madness.

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