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Strange Bedfellows: Saini, Taleb, Hazony
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Greg Cochran has a very funny review of Angela Saini’s review in Nature of a book about race and sports. Her piece is in response to my derisive review of Saini’s Science Denialist book Superior: The Return of Race Science:

Now you’d think that if if you were trying to defend blank slatism, you wouldn’t want to spend much of your time on your weakest possible point, any more than a PR-wise Stalinist would go on and on about how wise and good Katyn Forest was: how the Chekists killed those Polish POWs in self-defense, after a heroic struggle, etc. Arguing for zero physical differences between populations is that weak: everyone can see them, for Christ’s sake. And a lot of people are very interested in, and knowledgeable about, sports.

Yet, in Saini’s review, she does just that.

My impression is that Saini is a ladylike Indian lady with a husband and a child who has zero innate interest in sports, so she is as ignorant of sports as I am of soap operas.

She’s pushing obvious falsehoods – not just ones that can only be noticed by the elite that know how to do long division.

For example: “Some have speculated that Kenyans might have, on average, longer, thinner legs than other people.”

And then Greg shows a picture of a Kenyan relay team who “have, on average, longer, thinner legs than other people.”

My impression is that Current Year thinkers seem to assume that the more obviously factually wrong they are, the more Pokemon Points they deserve: it’s a stereotype that Kenyan runners tend to be skinny, therefore it can’t be true.

Anyway, Claire Lehman, the pretty editrix of Quillette, weighed in on Twitter on the ridiculousness of Saini being granted a pulpit in Nature to expound on her ignorance.

Then N . N. Taleb denounced Lehman in defense of Saini. (My 2018 response to Taleb’s Science Denialism on IQ is here.)

Then America’s new-found top intellectual, Israeli political philosopher Yoram Hazony, jumped in in defense of Taleb against Lehman, although he later backed off.

 
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  1. How do “Meds” do in sports? If they won all the medals would Taleb have a different opinion?

    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    Yes, and it's the same with IQ. Lebanon has the same IQ as Zimbabwe.
    , @NickG

    How do “Meds” do in sports? If they won all the medals would Taleb have a different opinion?
     
    Judging by his Twatter outburst Taleb is off his Meds.

    I gave him the benefit of doubt as is my wont for general curmudgeonliness.

    Mea Culpa — Taleb's a wilfully ignorant tosser.
  2. Current Year thinkers seem to assume that the more obviously factually wrong they are, the more Pokemon Points they deserve

    This has been noted for some time in regard to police shootings of blacks. In cases where the police were obviously wrong, there doesn’t seem to be as much progressive outrage as when it’s likely the shooting was justified.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
  3. It really is becoming an iSteve world, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If you have a Google Alert set for "Angela Saini" I guess so
    , @Dieter Kief
    Yep - Steve Sailer is at the front in big fights. And he was one of the first American writers to acknowledge - - - - Yoram Hazony (and this did not happen for no reason) ... Which might look a tad confusing, but not for him, - at least as far as I keep track and can say (and I do keep track - because it is - - really interesting (and very insightful)!
    , @CrunchybutRealistCon
    Sadly, one gets the impression that Taleb won't concede any ground to race realists or HBD folks because he's paranoid of a slippery slope. A slope leading to a Hollywood dystopia where Blond haired villains like Roy Batty or Max Zorin oppress all others. It's tiresome really.
  4. Please quote the tweets for those of us (some on principle) do not participate with Twitter. Thanks!

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Just click on the links, creamcake.
  5. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer
    It really is becoming an iSteve world, isn't it?

    If you have a Google Alert set for “Angela Saini” I guess so

  6. One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers (“racists”). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation – your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you’re afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it’s a power play. It’s an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don’t recognize it because we don’t have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.

    • Agree: Sean, Kronos, PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood.
     
    How does this story map at all onto the situation? Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch's lie? And where is the "reasonable people might differ" similarity?
    , @WowJustWow
    Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we brought a bunch of Pygmies in as refugees and thrust them into the spotlight at diversity celebrations and bankrolled them to run for Congress. They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.
    , @ben tillman

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are.
     
    It's no more obvious that athletic traits are heritable than that intelligence is.
    , @International Jew

    As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you
     
    That's what "diversity training" is about. You can't dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.
     
    We're already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?
    , @Johann Ricke

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.
     
    It may be more than a story:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Gao#Calling_a_deer_a_horse
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_the_Grand_Historian#Reliability_and_accuracy
    , @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote:

    The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are.
    [snip]

    In other words, it’s a power play. It’s an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don’t recognize it because we don’t have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it.
     
    Oh, I'd say pretty much all political systems and all religions do the same thing. You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh. You want to be a good Muslim? Pretend that Muhammad was not a mass murderer and child molester. You want to be a good American? Pretend that the USA has not chosen to get involved in more wars in the last seventy years than any other regime on the planet.

    And, similarly for a good socialist or good conservative or whatever.

    Human societies are built on lies. You prove your loyalty by accepting and parroting the lies.

    (No, I do not think this is acceptable, but there does not seem to be anything I can do about it.)
  7. Two gatekeepers – one Jewish, the other probably Jewish – arguing about which gate works best to keep white goys from waking up. Just another day in modern America.

    Well, I guess that it does prove that there’s no organized conspiracy to destroy whites, just a general agreement about the ultimate goal.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!
  8. Racial determinism

    Using this ridiculous term just proves that Hazony is a liar. He is obviously setting up for a motte-and-bailey argument where if challenged on the ridiculousness of his position, he can just retreat to saying that he is not a ‘determinist’ about racial differences because he doesn’t believe that everything is determined by genes or whatever.

  9. Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus? (“Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It’s a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let’s not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    (“Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.)
     
    What do you mean by this?

    Hazony is facilitating an interesting conversation, or at least contributing to it. People should engage with his arguments rather than reject him and call him bad names.
    , @Jack D
    If Hazony is a one man Monkees band, who is his impresario, his Svengali, his Rafelson?
    , @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    Hazony is another in a longline of "conservative" grifters.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony
     
    Nah. Naming, shaming, and ridicule is the way to go.

    Unless you want to signal weakness.
    , @ben tillman

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?
     
    Not if people like you keep spreading the word.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.
     
    The only flaw in this analogy is that the Monkees had some pretty solid tunes: Last Train to Clarksville; Stepping Stone; etc. They weren't the Beatles, but then again, who is?
    , @Hypnotoad666

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?
     
    It basically seems like Hazony is just trying to get out in front of a new "respectable" Conservatism by rebranding it as: "New and Improved Formula -- Now with 20% More Populism!"

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.
    , @Old Jew
    I understand the temptation to treat Hazony as a Magyar surname.

    But in Hebrew the name is spelled:

    חזוני

    which means "my vision" from " חזונ" = prophecy (prophetic vision)
    , @kimchilover
    I get what you're saying but the problem is the Monkees were a pretty amazing band (they fall easily into the top 10 pop acts of the 60's). Their album Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones is a masterpiece.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Hey! Retract this post.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJ6QP8BYn0

    I like the Monkees.
    , @International Jew

    “Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.
     
    No, it's Hebrew. חזוני. It means something like "prophetic".
    , @SFG
    1. He may fail, and be of no importance.

    2. He may succeed to some degree, and be an important voice in whatever direction the GOP takes after Trump.
    2a. 'National conservatism' may fail to catch the interest of the base (due to its obsession with Israel) and be replaced by something else.
    2a1. This could be a collapse back to free-market fundamentalism, and the GOP could be back as a minority party for a few decades, with increased immigration.
    2a2. This could be a genuine white nationalism...
    2a2a. ...which brings back the 1950s.
    2a2b. ...which leaves the GOP as a minority party for 20 years while the Dems flood the country with immigrants.

    2b. 'National conservatism' may catch the interest of the base and affect policy.
    2b1. If it affects policy, we may get the same 'Israel first' crap with a sprinkling of nationalism and a mild decrease in immigration levels, leading to a slight slowing of demographic replacement.
    2b2. If it affects policy, we may get the same 'Israel first' crap with an actual decrease in immigration levels, leading to a considerable slowing of demographic replacement.

    Your guess is as good as mine.
  10. Utter nonsense. Nothing is heritable. Everything is random, and we are all born equal in every possible way under the sun. Just look around you and you will see the truth in this. Anyone who denies these self-evident truths is socially maladjusted and must be immediately de-platformed and should be physically removed to psychiatric care for his or her their own good and the good of society as a whole.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Quite so! Why, I've known it ever since that magical day when I was yet a boy and our dog a had a litter of kittens....
  11. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood.

    How does this story map at all onto the situation? Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch’s lie? And where is the “reasonable people might differ” similarity?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch’s lie? And where is the “reasonable people might differ” similarity?
     
    The horse - deer story is typical of declining Empires. In such Empires, the political establishment is as yet unassailable, but money comes from politics, nothing else, the bureaucracies handle almost all the real work, and the political elite has noticed that holding office is everything. Politics within the court overrules reality outside the court almost entirely[1]. Nobody can be trusted to do more than plot for advancement and toe the political line.
    When that happens, the chief danger to an Emperor is civil war with a member of the political class, or possibly an assassination.
    Given that "declining empire" scenario, the Emperor quite often tries to permit only terrified cowards to hold top offices. The reasoning is that terrified cowards won't contest the Emperor's rule.
    Of course, eventually the resulting misgovernment fails, but that's eventually.

    Examples:
    Luttwak wrote a book on Roman Grand Strategy, and there is a Youtube video [2] that summarizes it. The summary includes actions of late Roman Empire that are said to illustrate the above situation in that the Roman Emperor kept significant armed forces near him rather than out near the frontiers. The idea was to cut down on revolts by frontier troop commanders sick of an incompetent central rule. The assertion's fidelity to real Roman policy is questionable, but it illustrates the sorts of things an Emperor typically does in a declining society.
    During the Revolutions of 1848 surviving regimes also used their military as a bodyguard: moved away from urban mobs to rural areas protected by their militaries, and consequently survived (as a governing group) for another 3 generations, until 1914.

    Summary:
    Government " of the people, by the people, and for the people" is highly atypical of governments, and tends to decay to a self serving government that disappears into its own political reality. If you look at it the right way, you can see this in most industrialized countries right now. Nobody knows how to govern an industrialized country - Nietzsche was right about that.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] which is why we call it "political reality": politics that replaces reality in the governing class.
    2] "Defensive Strategies of the Roman Empire".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymMR_TJt4go
    , @hhsiii
    It was the eunuch, the most powerful man behind the emperor, who killed people who didn’t support his lie.
  12. @songbird
    How do "Meds" do in sports? If they won all the medals would Taleb have a different opinion?

    Yes, and it’s the same with IQ. Lebanon has the same IQ as Zimbabwe.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Really?
  13. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    (“Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.)

    What do you mean by this?

    Hazony is facilitating an interesting conversation, or at least contributing to it. People should engage with his arguments rather than reject him and call him bad names.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I was trying to show off my familiarity with things Hungarian (which I like, BTW) and instead made a fool of myself. Commenters here have informed us that the name Hazony is actually Hebrew. It just looks Hungarian to me.
  14. Current Year thinkers seem to assume that the more obviously factually wrong they are, the more Pokemon Points they deserve.

    This is the converse of Orwell’s postulate, which in paraphrase goes “some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them”. Therefore, if I believe in really stupid ideas, I must therefore be an intellectual! QED.

    An intellectual has the mental subtlety to see past the falsehoods that the ignorant masses believe. These things may appear obvious on their face but as someone of great wisdom and intelligence I see past the obviousness and understand the REAL truth. I am a veritable Galileo – the yahoos see the sun’s path across the sky and assume that it is moving but I know that the sun is standing still and it is the EARTH that is moving. Don’t let your eyes deceive you. Eppur si muove!

    • Replies: @tomv
    That's not a converse. It's not even a corollary.

    If you must call it something, it's syllogism, with Orwell's famous quote as major premise.

    Major premise: All BS believers are intellectuals.
    Minor premise: I am a BS believer.
    Conclusion: I am an intellectual.
  15. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Two gatekeepers - one Jewish, the other probably Jewish - arguing about which gate works best to keep white goys from waking up. Just another day in modern America.

    Well, I guess that it does prove that there's no organized conspiracy to destroy whites, just a general agreement about the ultimate goal.

    I guess you didn’t notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    Saini herself is just repeating nonsense made up by Jews more than fifty years ago. Perhaps you should look up who Ashley Montagu or Steven J Gould or Franz Boaz are.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I was discussing the gatekeepers and their quarrel, Jack, not all of the participants. I already know that Saini wants to destroy my people's world. Taleb is, well, Taleb. He seems to love one thing and that's Taleb.

    You're an interesting guy and often make wonderful points, but you're lack of self-awareness on the role of Jews in getting where are and where we're going always amazing me (and many others). Indeed, it's flat out scary.

    If some on the Dissident Right see a Jew under every rock, you seem unable to see a Jew anywhere. You come across as just as crazy on the subject.
    , @Anonymous
    Ill guesstimate the genetic distance from Taleb to Hazony is not all that great. Though I doubt that makes them simpatico.
    , @Anonymous
    Citizen was just doing the Unz version of the deer/horse heresy hunt. Make the absurd claim that a famous Christian Arab is a Jew, then see who objects, thus outing potential dissidents.
    , @istevefan

    Taleb is a Christian Arab.
     
    I think he calls himself a Christian Phoenician.
    , @Neil Templeton
    Termites, Carpenter Ants, and Wood Borers all feed on rotten wood. But to your point, the rot is the essential cause, not the capitalists.
    , @Ragno
    They don't call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing, you know. Just switch beef for pork and you're halfway there.
  16. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    If Hazony is a one man Monkees band, who is his impresario, his Svengali, his Rafelson?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    That question can be interpreted as a trick one.

    He could be his own Rafelson and the effect would be the same. The whole system is ready and waiting for people like him to step in and co-opt anything that threatens the status quo. He can get all the exposure he wants while other "public intellectuals" like Steve and Ron languish here with us insomniacs -- as long as he steers things away from where they naturally would go, and keeps certain prime movers out of the Ritz-Carlton.

    The Monkees were just a money-making operation and kind of fun, but this is different.

    Now a question for you: What do you think his objectives are?

  17. @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    Saini herself is just repeating nonsense made up by Jews more than fifty years ago. Perhaps you should look up who Ashley Montagu or Steven J Gould or Franz Boaz are.

  18. @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we brought a bunch of Pygmies in as refugees and thrust them into the spotlight at diversity celebrations and bankrolled them to run for Congress. They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    That's the sort of "problem" George H.W. Bush's Diversity Visa program was intended to rectify.
  19. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    Hazony is another in a longline of “conservative” grifters.

  20. We live in bizarro world.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    A person might hold pretty ridiculous religious beliefs, but be the soul of common sense and facing reality in her everyday life. These people willfully ignore observable reality. I wonder how many would be willing to take a walk one night in one of the less than salubrious neighborhoods in Baltimore. They twist themselves into a pretzel justifying to themselves and others why they wouldn’t.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    MSM Republicans are saying that for the same reason they claim ANTIFA are "white supremacists".
    , @AnotherDad

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.
     
    No argument on the thrust here. There's nothing worse than GOPe and these PC cuckservatives.

    Nonetheless it is true that Baltimore is *particularly* worse because it has been ruled by Democrats--or more honestly both that "progressives"/"minoritarians" have been in charge in the US the last 50+ and that Baltimore is locally dominanted by them.

    It's just flat out true that blacks behaved *better* when i was born under an essentially "liberal but normal/traditional" regime that would be considered "facism!" today.

    Progressivism is destructive even in your modern up-scale suburb. But some direct clown shit--mentally ill boys sent into your daughter's locker room--aside it mostly functions. The real damage there is longterm--filling your kids head with insanely stupid ideas, telling the girls their great goal in life is corporate CEO, suppressing your children's fertility.

    But as Steve has pointed out, for people on the left half of the bell curve, with poorer native judgement, progressivism is just an absolute disaster--crime, dysfunction, illegitimacy, a breakdown in public order, educational collapse, a collapse of work, generational welfare class and a generational criminal class ... more crime, more illegitimacy, more welfare.
    , @JMcG
    This is my favorite ongoing conceit on Glenn Reynolds’ blog, coopted long ago by PJ Media. It’s gone down the same road as the Corner on NRO. That’s the reason I’ve combined all my former subscriptions and send them on to Steve once a year. He’s indispensable.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Ris_Eruwaedhiel wrote:

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.
     
    When I was a young kid in the late '50s/early '60s, black communities were certainly not utopias, and not nearly as pleasant as white communities.

    But they were not the hellholes the black ghettos are today.

    They can be and should be better.

    Yeah, the GOP is not the savior of black folks: the GOP is almost as infected with progressivism as the Dens.

    But if the culture as a whole returned to endorsing, encouraging, and, when necessary, enforcing bourgeois values, the life of everyone, but most especially the white working class and the black underclass, would be much, much better.

    We know what culture and values work best in a modern industrial society: the much-derided Victorian values. But no one has the guts to push this point publicly.
  21. … it’s a stereotype that Kenyan runners tend to be skinny, therefore it can’t be true.

    I’ve been seeing a rabbit in my yard lately and, for some reason, he’s not afraid of me. I like giving him snacks like pieces of banana peel, broccoli stems and leaves, and celery tops. The thing he gets most excited for, though, is carrots. I’d always assumed Bugs Bunny was an insidious ethnic stereotype, but rabbits really do like carrots.

    • Replies: @Flip
    I gave my cat catnip one time and she went crazy. I always thought it was a myth.
  22. @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    I was discussing the gatekeepers and their quarrel, Jack, not all of the participants. I already know that Saini wants to destroy my people’s world. Taleb is, well, Taleb. He seems to love one thing and that’s Taleb.

    You’re an interesting guy and often make wonderful points, but you’re lack of self-awareness on the role of Jews in getting where are and where we’re going always amazing me (and many others). Indeed, it’s flat out scary.

    If some on the Dissident Right see a Jew under every rock, you seem unable to see a Jew anywhere. You come across as just as crazy on the subject.

  23. you wouldn’t want to spend much of your time on your weakest possible point, any more than a PR-wise Stalinist would go on and on about how wise and good Katyn Forest was: how the Chekists killed those Polish POWs in self-defense, after a heroic struggle, etc

    This is not at all what the Stalinists did. Rather they just claimed that the Nazis had done it, not them. This is the real totalitarian playbook (still good today – look at MH17). This kind of denial has several functions, aside from its “calling a deer a horse” aspect (i.e. you can tell who your friends are by whether they go along with your version of the truth no matter how much evidence points in the other direction). If you have been accused of a (war) crime then the most obvious defense is not “I confess that I did it, but it was in self-defense” but “I didn’t do nuthin’.” As soon as you confess your guilt, the battle is mostly lost. Make the other side PROVE their case, don’t do their work for them. Confessions are for the weak. Don’t confess unless the other side has the power to torture it out of you and make you pay for it. They don’t have that power? Then F’em. I dindu nuffin. (Trump BTW understands this .)

    Since no one has accused Saini of a crime, the analogy doesn’t quite work.

  24. eah says:

    …so she is as ignorant of sports as I am of soap operas.

    She couldn’t be that ignorant of sports (?) — and if she is, then why is she reviewing a book about sports (which she knows nothing about — ?) and race (“Angela Saini’s review in Nature of a book about race and sports”)?

    From a comment at the Cochran site:

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It’s hard to disagree — the question is why — ?

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Because as Vox Day has observed, SJWs always double down when they're wrong.
    , @Forbes

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It’s hard to disagree — the question is why — ?
     
    There are always more virgin fields to plow, more bars to be raised--each battle won points to yet more territory to conquer. What could be more obvious.

    The PC/SJW brigades are on a mission to the future, they have no endgame in mind--except the acquisition of power--power over you.. Obama always had that in mind with his declaration about "the right side of history." It was the "right side" because he was declaring it so. It was your obligation to go along.

    And cucks never learn. They think their compromise(s) will end the game/debate/dispute. It won't and it doesn't.

    Most of this is the power politics as previous played out in the French and Russian revolutions.
  25. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:

    Anyway, Claire Lehman, the pretty editrix of Quillette, weighed in on Twitter on the ridiculousness of Saini being granted a pulpit in Nature to expound on her ignorance.

    Then N . N. Taleb denounced Lehman in defense of Saini. (My 2018 response to Taleb’s Science Denialism on IQ is here.)

    Then America’s new-found top intellectual, Israeli political philosopher Yoram Hazony, jumped in in defense of Taleb against Lehman, although he later backed off.

    “And it’s a multilateral naval manoeuver as various rebel alliances emerge from the fog banks! Very close patterns as indirect fire is exchanged!”

    My impression is that Current Year thinkers seem to assume that the more obviously factually wrong they are, the more Pokemon Points they deserve: it’s a stereotype that Kenyan runners tend to be skinny, therefore it can’t be true.

    I think it’s mainly a female thing. “So you think X is a fact? I will show you! It will show you that ¬X is a fact, by sheer willpower.” (breaks all bones doing that)

    Ladies never fully grow out of this girlish behaviour. I supppose the very idea of telekinesis comes out of that corner.

  26. @Jack D
    If Hazony is a one man Monkees band, who is his impresario, his Svengali, his Rafelson?

    That question can be interpreted as a trick one.

    He could be his own Rafelson and the effect would be the same. The whole system is ready and waiting for people like him to step in and co-opt anything that threatens the status quo. He can get all the exposure he wants while other “public intellectuals” like Steve and Ron languish here with us insomniacs — as long as he steers things away from where they naturally would go, and keeps certain prime movers out of the Ritz-Carlton.

    The Monkees were just a money-making operation and kind of fun, but this is different.

    Now a question for you: What do you think his objectives are?

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    To try and co-opt the burgeoning nationalism revival into neocohenism with a special carve out for Israel so they can do whatever they want.

    Someone on The Federalist of all places nailed Hazony to the wall on this and called his project an attempt to establish a cordon sanitaire.

    I don't think it will work because think tanks and intellectual "projects" are 1980s and when you, the big brain intellectual, are getting destroyed by Twitter users with anime loli avatars, it tends to call into question your abilities and whether you know what you re talking about.

    , @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

  27. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    Ill guesstimate the genetic distance from Taleb to Hazony is not all that great. Though I doubt that makes them simpatico.

  28. anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:

    In Taleb’s Incerto screed railing against IQ testing, he came up with this gem.

    “In the real world you interview people from their CV (not from some IQ number sent to you as in a thought experiment), and, once you have their CV, the 62 IQ fellow is naturally eliminated. ”

    I would say that we’d all be happy to admit immigrants or confer citizenship based on their CV.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "we’d all be happy to admit immigrants or confer citizenship based on their CV"

    I wouldn't, because (unless it came say from Holland or Denmark) the CV would probably be forged or written by their cousin, or written after money had changed hands.
    , @Autochthon
    I would say you should not presume what "we" would all be happy with. The place is full. It is overpopulated. I don't give a tinker's damn if a fellow is about to cure cancer – he can do it in his own country and Americans will gladly license the patents or otherwise pay the costs for his treatment. Hell, we may even invest in his laboratory. But he doesn't need to be here for any of it.

    And I can attest many others agree.

    "We" would certainly not "all" be happy with your proposals. (If you only meant to refer to some smaller group you belong to, or if you are the King of Spain, you ought not have apended the term "all.")
  29. Historically, it kinda makes sense: during the Lebanese Civil War, Israel took the side of Lebanese Christians.

  30. OT

    These are President Trump’s tweets this morning. Referring to @RepCummings⁩ as “King Elijah” and using the term “Whites”.

    Interesting exchange after the above tweet:

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I'm glad to see the leader of the free world capitalize the W in "Whites". Of course Trump is very Victorian in the way he capitalizes any word he wants to. Still, it's progress.
    , @Hail
    The hashtag #WhiteNationalist is currently listing @realDonaldTrump as the top and only hit for 'People.'
  31. @Buzz Mohawk
    That question can be interpreted as a trick one.

    He could be his own Rafelson and the effect would be the same. The whole system is ready and waiting for people like him to step in and co-opt anything that threatens the status quo. He can get all the exposure he wants while other "public intellectuals" like Steve and Ron languish here with us insomniacs -- as long as he steers things away from where they naturally would go, and keeps certain prime movers out of the Ritz-Carlton.

    The Monkees were just a money-making operation and kind of fun, but this is different.

    Now a question for you: What do you think his objectives are?

    To try and co-opt the burgeoning nationalism revival into neocohenism with a special carve out for Israel so they can do whatever they want.

    Someone on The Federalist of all places nailed Hazony to the wall on this and called his project an attempt to establish a cordon sanitaire.

    I don’t think it will work because think tanks and intellectual “projects” are 1980s and when you, the big brain intellectual, are getting destroyed by Twitter users with anime loli avatars, it tends to call into question your abilities and whether you know what you re talking about.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Lot
    “co-opt the burgeoning nationalism”

    What does this actually mean, specifically?

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?
  32. @Buzz Mohawk
    That question can be interpreted as a trick one.

    He could be his own Rafelson and the effect would be the same. The whole system is ready and waiting for people like him to step in and co-opt anything that threatens the status quo. He can get all the exposure he wants while other "public intellectuals" like Steve and Ron languish here with us insomniacs -- as long as he steers things away from where they naturally would go, and keeps certain prime movers out of the Ritz-Carlton.

    The Monkees were just a money-making operation and kind of fun, but this is different.

    Now a question for you: What do you think his objectives are?

    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn’t sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there’s a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don’t know who the shadowy “System” is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON’T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you’ll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don’t use their real names because they don’t want to be publicly associated with “far right” figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn’t it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn’t having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a “gateway drug” just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn’t sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there’s a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don’t know who the shadowy “System” is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON’T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz . . . .
     
    That "fringey nutjob" has on occasion been extremely influential.
    , @Anonymous

    In such an environment, isn’t it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn’t having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a “gateway drug” just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.
     
    JackD is right.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    You and I, my friend, use pseudonyms here because we have to. Ron is independently wealthy, and Steve bravely crossed the Rubicon years ago. Contrary to what you just wrote, I -- unlike you -- stand by them both, with all their mortal faults.

    I send them both money. Not enough to make a difference in their lives, it talks nevertheless.

    Things are not the neat package you imply them to be. You comment here anonymously as we all do. That is your right and ours. Benjamin Franklin did the same.

    Anonymity is not the same thing as distance.

    If everything were as nice and fair as you imply, then we could use our real names here and Steve could be on TV. To put it simply in a way you might understand: You lie.

    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I give you credit, Jack. You stay on message. Never give an inch, no matter how absurd it makes you look.

    Hazony isn't a "gateway" drug; he's a sedative. And you know it. His job is to keep gentile whites from thinking like Jews and every other tribe in the world. If by some miracle, he doesn't realize this, then he's an idiot, but academics are better than most at fooling themselves so perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh.

    Hazony is the globalists' realization that ignoring nationalist sentiments isn't working so they're hoping to co-opt those movements into a safe zone. Hell, it'll probably work. Gentile whites just seem desperate to avoid the realities of race and tribalism.
    , @International Jew

    there are many here (including you and me) who don’t use their real names because they don’t want to be publicly associated with “far right” figures like Steve
     
    That's me. I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here.
  33. @WowJustWow
    Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we brought a bunch of Pygmies in as refugees and thrust them into the spotlight at diversity celebrations and bankrolled them to run for Congress. They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    That’s the sort of “problem” George H.W. Bush’s Diversity Visa program was intended to rectify.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I'd rather have a Honduran and a pygmy than two Hondurans. They couldn't unite against me, without direction.

    The problem with the visa lottery was its not being twinned with a cap. Its proponents weren't forced to choose. They got two Hondurans and a pygmy.

    Who could send home for his clan.
    , @Lucas McCrudy
    Along with that, the new-world-order Pappy Bush gave us a doubling of largely Third World sourced immigration (thanks to the earlier 65 Act) and created the hb1 visa, a program which has brought many more Angela Sainis to our fine shores.
    Someone should do an analysis just calculating the demographic effects of the 1990 Immigration Act, since we all basically know what the 65 Act did demographically in its first 2 decades prior using data from the 1970-1990 censuses.
  34. @Michael Soeren
    Please quote the tweets for those of us (some on principle) do not participate with Twitter. Thanks!

    Just click on the links, creamcake.

    • Replies: @Yngvar
    Sysadmin have blocked SoMe. Can't see anything.
  35. @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are.

    It’s no more obvious that athletic traits are heritable than that intelligence is.

    • Agree: lavoisier
    • Replies: @Sean
    Gettysburg settled nothing then.
  36. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony

    Nah. Naming, shaming, and ridicule is the way to go.

    Unless you want to signal weakness.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Nah. Naming, shaming, and ridicule is the way to go.
     
    You are looking a gift horse in the mouth.
  37. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?

    Not if people like you keep spreading the word.

  38. @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn’t sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there’s a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don’t know who the shadowy “System” is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON’T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz . . . .

    That “fringey nutjob” has on occasion been extremely influential.

  39. @Harry Baldwin
    They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    That's the sort of "problem" George H.W. Bush's Diversity Visa program was intended to rectify.

    I’d rather have a Honduran and a pygmy than two Hondurans. They couldn’t unite against me, without direction.

    The problem with the visa lottery was its not being twinned with a cap. Its proponents weren’t forced to choose. They got two Hondurans and a pygmy.

    Who could send home for his clan.

    • Replies: @Lot
    The diversity lottery does have a cap, though it is pretty high. But Chinese and Indians and Filipinos can’t enter.

    The worst part of the diversity lottery visa I think is it creates a little beachhead for further migration of the illegal and legal-chain types for groups that have plenty of reason to migrate but not much local help here on the ground.

    There are also a ton of scams that use the existence if the lottery to rip off foreigners. Try visiting an English language site from a poor country, and you will be bombarded with big blinking ads for these scams.

    , @Autochthon
    Please, sir! Please, I implore you: won't someone think of the Honduran pygmies and the pygmy Hondurans?!

    Such narrow-mindedness....
    , @Pericles
    The very idea of a visa lottery is bizarre and evil. Does anyone but the USA do this?
  40. Of course, the runners have long, thin legs. The question is whether the general population in Kenya has longer, thinner legs.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they do. But looking at a picture of runners to prove that is as silly as using a picture of the offensive line of the New England Patriots to prove that Americans have no necks.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is not quite true because if you took a picture of a mixed group of long distance runners containing some of the (few) remaining non-E. African runners, the white guys would not have the same physiognomy as the Kenyans simply because having such long lower legs is past the 100%th percentile for Caucasian leg length - there simply aren't any white people built that way.

    https://i.imgur.com/JhPssej.jpg

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level.

    , @PiltdownMan
    Here's a picture of some Kalenjin people, the ethnic group that almost all elite Kenyan runners are from.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/b0/b8/ebb0b88470f122180e510c5efb358419.jpg



    Here's an NPR article on the Kalenjin from 2013. It went where it would not have dared to go today, in 2019, and would likely have been written very differently, if at all.

    "There are 17 American men in history who have run under 2:10 in the marathon," Epstein says. "There were 32 Kalenjin who did it in October of 2011."

    The Role Of Genetics

    Scientists and sports gurus have proposed all sorts of explanations over the years for Kalenjin prowess on the track: from their high-starch diet, to the altitude, to socioeconomics.

    All those factors are important, but none of them explain why this particular tribe is so dominant. That left Epstein when he was writing his book exploring a more controversial line of inquiry: Is there something genetically different about the Kalenjin that makes them superior runners?

    Asking that question almost convinced Epstein to back out of his book contract. He realized he'd have to address sensitive questions of ethnic and racial differences. Academics told him they had evidence of genetic advantage but wouldn't share their research with him for fear they'd lose their jobs. "And these were professors with tenure," he says.

    But some scientists did talk to him; and they explained one aspect of innate biology that clearly helps Kalenjin: the shape of their bodies.

    Kalenjin have particularly thin ankles and calves, a body build common to Nilotic tribes who grow up near the equator. Epstein says this is particularly important in running because your leg is like a pendulum. The more weight you have farther away from your center of gravity, the more difficult it is to swing.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners


     
  41. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    I'd rather have a Honduran and a pygmy than two Hondurans. They couldn't unite against me, without direction.

    The problem with the visa lottery was its not being twinned with a cap. Its proponents weren't forced to choose. They got two Hondurans and a pygmy.

    Who could send home for his clan.

    The diversity lottery does have a cap, though it is pretty high. But Chinese and Indians and Filipinos can’t enter.

    The worst part of the diversity lottery visa I think is it creates a little beachhead for further migration of the illegal and legal-chain types for groups that have plenty of reason to migrate but not much local help here on the ground.

    There are also a ton of scams that use the existence if the lottery to rip off foreigners. Try visiting an English language site from a poor country, and you will be bombarded with big blinking ads for these scams.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The diversity lottery does have a cap, though it is pretty high.
     
    I meant twin it with a cap on total immigration. Then it would be of some use, in lowering the totals of the top countries.

    Like a salary cap in sports. You have to take some from the stars to improve-- or to diversify-- the bench.
  42. I don’t understand Talebs appeal. Because someone has a good command of probabilities – I don’t know he made any discovery in the file neither in logic, math, philosophy or cognitive science domain – he can disparage people’s work with ad hominem and straw man arguments.

    As if extremistan and mediocristan added anything to Gauss work (or Spearman factor analysis) …

    If he wanted to produce an interesting criticism of IQ, he could have started with Jensen « G » raw material and explaining why it would be flawed.

    The Levantine (non Jewish) scientists, Muslim or Christian or Zoroastrian, are gone since a long time. That’s why Iranian call Arabs countries the backward states.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    'The Levantine (non Jewish) scientists, '

    Lol what an idiot.
  43. from the Atlantic, April 17, 2012:

    Why Kenyans Make Such Great Runners: A Story of Genes and Cultures

    “It turns out that Kenyans’ success may be innate. Two separate, European-led studies in a small region in western Kenya, which produces most of the race-winners, found that young men there could, with only a few months training, reliably outperform some of the West’s best professional runners. In other words, they appeared to have a physical advantage that is common to their community, making it probably genetic. The studies found significant differences in body mass index and bone structure between the Western pros and the Kenyan amateurs who had bested them. The studied Kenyans had less mass for their height, longer legs, shorter torsos, and more slender limbs. One of the researchers described the Kenyan physical differences as “bird-like,” noting that these traits would make them more efficient runners, especially over long distances.

    Surprisingly, Western popular writing about Kenyans’ running success seems to focus less on these genetic distinctions and more on cultural differences.”

    Surprisingly?

  44. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    Citizen was just doing the Unz version of the deer/horse heresy hunt. Make the absurd claim that a famous Christian Arab is a Jew, then see who objects, thus outing potential dissidents.

  45. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    The only flaw in this analogy is that the Monkees had some pretty solid tunes: Last Train to Clarksville; Stepping Stone; etc. They weren’t the Beatles, but then again, who is?

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Jack D
    He didn't say that they were bad, just that they were artificially constructed and "inauthentic". The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality (if perhaps not truly great) - e.g. Kraft Cracker Barrel cheddar cheese. Or you can be 100% authentic and yet suck - some "artisanal" cheese that tastes like a barnyard (which in turn is still perhaps better than tasting like a chemical factory). But the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package - authenticity AND quality.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    The Monkees were carefully chosen for their mix of skills and appeal. Many of their songs were from the top writers of the day-- Goffin-King, Neil Diamond, John Stewart, etc.

    Their house composers were Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart, responsible for about half their hits. They had put their own performing career on hold for that, but it paid off hugely in royalties, and Boyce and Hart were Monkees in all but name on the revival circuit. (Mike Nesmith wished them well, but had no need to tour himself. His mother had invented Liquid Paper, and he was set for life.)


    Boyce, like Del Shannon, shot himself to death. Hart's recent autobiography only briefly mentions his former partner's passing, not giving its cause. That's weird.

    , @Ganderson
    Pleasant Valley Sunday (written by Carole King) is a good tune.

    The allure of Southern California to a young upper Midwesterner in the late 60’s and 70’s can’t be overestimated.
  46. @Lot
    The diversity lottery does have a cap, though it is pretty high. But Chinese and Indians and Filipinos can’t enter.

    The worst part of the diversity lottery visa I think is it creates a little beachhead for further migration of the illegal and legal-chain types for groups that have plenty of reason to migrate but not much local help here on the ground.

    There are also a ton of scams that use the existence if the lottery to rip off foreigners. Try visiting an English language site from a poor country, and you will be bombarded with big blinking ads for these scams.

    The diversity lottery does have a cap, though it is pretty high.

    I meant twin it with a cap on total immigration. Then it would be of some use, in lowering the totals of the top countries.

    Like a salary cap in sports. You have to take some from the stars to improve– or to diversify– the bench.

  47. @ben tillman

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are.
     
    It's no more obvious that athletic traits are heritable than that intelligence is.

    Gettysburg settled nothing then.

  48. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?

    It basically seems like Hazony is just trying to get out in front of a new “respectable” Conservatism by rebranding it as: “New and Improved Formula — Now with 20% More Populism!”

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.
     
    Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
    , @Pericles

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

     

    I wouldn't accept that gift. It will more likely serve to divert any impulse or discussion of nationalism into Rah Rah Israel, Hazony media tour, Hazony editorial, Hazony speaks out against anti-semitism, etc.
  49. @Hypnotoad666

    He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.
     
    The only flaw in this analogy is that the Monkees had some pretty solid tunes: Last Train to Clarksville; Stepping Stone; etc. They weren't the Beatles, but then again, who is?

    He didn’t say that they were bad, just that they were artificially constructed and “inauthentic”. The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality (if perhaps not truly great) – e.g. Kraft Cracker Barrel cheddar cheese. Or you can be 100% authentic and yet suck – some “artisanal” cheese that tastes like a barnyard (which in turn is still perhaps better than tasting like a chemical factory). But the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.
    , @Vinteuil
    The Beatles at their absolute peak:

    https://youtu.be/A_MjCqQoLLA

    Authenticity & quality?

    Greatness?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality
     
    Any random flamenco guitarist off a dusty Andalucian street could compose a more "authentic" opera about Seville than could a Frenchman, an Italian or, God help us, some Salzburger.

    That doesn't stop us from listening to Carmen, The Barber of Seville, or The Marriage of Figaro.
  50. Have Taleb and Cochran ever taken verbal shots at each other? Or do they prefer targets that aren’t up to returning in kind with the level of venom that they each relish dishing out?

    • Replies: @Craken
    Cochran had a comment on Taleb's IQ clucking:
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2019/01/04/taleb/
  51. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    We live in bizarro world.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream "conservatives" are quick to claim that Baltimore's problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    A person might hold pretty ridiculous religious beliefs, but be the soul of common sense and facing reality in her everyday life. These people willfully ignore observable reality. I wonder how many would be willing to take a walk one night in one of the less than salubrious neighborhoods in Baltimore. They twist themselves into a pretzel justifying to themselves and others why they wouldn't.

    MSM Republicans are saying that for the same reason they claim ANTIFA are “white supremacists”.

  52. @Hypnotoad666

    He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.
     
    The only flaw in this analogy is that the Monkees had some pretty solid tunes: Last Train to Clarksville; Stepping Stone; etc. They weren't the Beatles, but then again, who is?

    The Monkees were carefully chosen for their mix of skills and appeal. Many of their songs were from the top writers of the day– Goffin-King, Neil Diamond, John Stewart, etc.

    Their house composers were Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart, responsible for about half their hits. They had put their own performing career on hold for that, but it paid off hugely in royalties, and Boyce and Hart were Monkees in all but name on the revival circuit. (Mike Nesmith wished them well, but had no need to tour himself. His mother had invented Liquid Paper, and he was set for life.)

    Boyce, like Del Shannon, shot himself to death. Hart’s recent autobiography only briefly mentions his former partner’s passing, not giving its cause. That’s weird.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there's not much call for the stuff nowadays.
    , @hhsiii
    One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer):

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp_eI23YFZY
  53. @Roger Sweeny
    Of course, the runners have long, thin legs. The question is whether the general population in Kenya has longer, thinner legs.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they do. But looking at a picture of runners to prove that is as silly as using a picture of the offensive line of the New England Patriots to prove that Americans have no necks.

    This is not quite true because if you took a picture of a mixed group of long distance runners containing some of the (few) remaining non-E. African runners, the white guys would not have the same physiognomy as the Kenyans simply because having such long lower legs is past the 100%th percentile for Caucasian leg length – there simply aren’t any white people built that way.

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level
     
    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops. Put him next to another Bol, Todd, the creator of Little Free Libraries. It will have to be caskets, though; both men are gone.

    Perhaps we can persuade Bol Bol, Manute's son, to devote a Little Free Library to his father's memory-- at his eye level. Make sure the steps are safe.


    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you're introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?


    Baseball, cricket, soccer, ice and field hockey, and others appear at first glance to be populated mostly by normal people.

    It would be interesting to see a basketball league with a height limit. The sport is popular in Puerto Rico and the Philippines.
  54. @Reg Cæsar
    The Monkees were carefully chosen for their mix of skills and appeal. Many of their songs were from the top writers of the day-- Goffin-King, Neil Diamond, John Stewart, etc.

    Their house composers were Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart, responsible for about half their hits. They had put their own performing career on hold for that, but it paid off hugely in royalties, and Boyce and Hart were Monkees in all but name on the revival circuit. (Mike Nesmith wished them well, but had no need to tour himself. His mother had invented Liquid Paper, and he was set for life.)


    Boyce, like Del Shannon, shot himself to death. Hart's recent autobiography only briefly mentions his former partner's passing, not giving its cause. That's weird.

    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there’s not much call for the stuff nowadays.

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
    His mom saved up all the royalties from the Liquid Paper patents and bequeathed them to Mike in her will. It amounted to around 25 million dollars, enough to keep a Monkee in bananas for the rest of his life. Mike still plays music, not because he has to but because he likes it.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there’s not much call for the stuff nowadays.
     
    The Monkees broke up about the same time as the Beatles, and he was strapped for a while, partly by choice. His mother died in 1980, and he got an inheritance. She had just sold the company to Gillette, for about $170 million in today's dollars.

    He was comfortable thereafter.

    Among other activities, he officiated at the wedding of A Whitney Brown and Carolyn Wonderland in 2011. On Doug Sahm Hill.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLfP-FWJ-5c

  55. Taleb is smarter than you.

    If you so smart, why ain’t you rich.

    I love you cretins “refuting” people whose intellect is so superior to yours you actually can’t comprehend it.

  56. Taleb is an expert in statistics.

    You argue using statistics.

    He knows more about statistics than you do.

    A lot more.

    I suspect you don’t understand statistics at all. You just copy and paste.

    An interesting Taleb observation eminently germane: “Statistics without probability is worthless.”

  57. @Jack D
    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there's not much call for the stuff nowadays.

    His mom saved up all the royalties from the Liquid Paper patents and bequeathed them to Mike in her will. It amounted to around 25 million dollars, enough to keep a Monkee in bananas for the rest of his life. Mike still plays music, not because he has to but because he likes it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    That was pretty nice of her, considering that he had told Hit Parader magazine that he didn't like her or Peter Tork.
  58. I almost feel bad for Taleb. He is so offended by the idea that Arabs have lower average IQs than Europeans that he has decided to attack the reality of IQ. This is a prime example of letting one’s feelings get in the way of reality.

    Of course, there are many bright Lebanese, as well as Arabs and Persians, just that there seem to be many dumb ones as well. They also tend to let their feelings override their reason.

    As to Hazony, he seemed ok at first, but he is clearly the latest attempt to keep heritage Americans from claimining their heritage.

  59. (I’m now blocked by Hazony, Taleb, and Saini, and followed by Claire).

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    A zeitgeist crystallization. Kudos!
    , @El Dato
    Once genetics advances to actual engineering, we will need a bigger boat for the "racial determinism" angle.
    , @Forbes
    I've read his books and some of his papers, but nntaleb just doesn't have patience for people who disagree/differ with him--and less patience with people who have difficulty understanding him. It tends to make him look close-minded. I'm sure he thinks he doesn't suffer fools gladly. And I know he doesn't care about my opinion.
  60. @Redneck farmer
    It really is becoming an iSteve world, isn't it?

    Yep – Steve Sailer is at the front in big fights. And he was one of the first American writers to acknowledge – – – – Yoram Hazony (and this did not happen for no reason) … Which might look a tad confusing, but not for him, – at least as far as I keep track and can say (and I do keep track – because it is – – really interesting (and very insightful)!

  61. @Dave Pinsen
    (I’m now blocked by Hazony, Taleb, and Saini, and followed by Claire).

    https://twitter.com/deploradude/status/1155458051404632065?s=21

    A zeitgeist crystallization. Kudos!

  62. “My impression is that Saini is a ladylike Indian lady with a husband and a child who has zero innate interest in sports, so she is as ignorant of sports as I am of soap operas.”

    Picking up on that. Here in the Bay Area, where there are tons of Asians both East and South, one thing that stands out is their relative commitment to recreational competitive sports. For both East and South Asian men, tennis is, overwhelmingly, their game. Basically any USTA team from Fremont down around to Foster City will be 70-90% Asians of one stripe or another (especially at the lower levels).

    Where it gets interesting is with women. East Asian women share that passion for tennis that the men do and they populate USTA line ups all around. They’re known (as are the men of that ilk), for a kind of grinding, lobbing, mentally tough but physically ungraceful game. But South Asian women, as contrasted with the men, are unicorns. The only ones I’ve ever seen are actually American born and raised and usually play for fancy private clubs. The ones here with their engineer husbands wouldn’t be caught dead doing anything athletic–they don’t even come out to root for them.

    Perhaps Saini is true to type.

  63. @Jack D
    This is not quite true because if you took a picture of a mixed group of long distance runners containing some of the (few) remaining non-E. African runners, the white guys would not have the same physiognomy as the Kenyans simply because having such long lower legs is past the 100%th percentile for Caucasian leg length - there simply aren't any white people built that way.

    https://i.imgur.com/JhPssej.jpg

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level.

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level

    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops. Put him next to another Bol, Todd, the creator of Little Free Libraries. It will have to be caskets, though; both men are gone.

    Perhaps we can persuade Bol Bol, Manute’s son, to devote a Little Free Library to his father’s memory– at his eye level. Make sure the steps are safe.

    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you’re introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?

    Baseball, cricket, soccer, ice and field hockey, and others appear at first glance to be populated mostly by normal people.

    It would be interesting to see a basketball league with a height limit. The sport is popular in Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I played a few pickup b-ball games in the Far East, many years ago. Sometimes against local college students, other times against the local army draftees.

    In the US I was a bad player. I the Far East I was dominating in those games because (a) I was slightly over 6’ tall and (b) I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall. The former was genetic, the latter cultural.

    In the early days of the sport, b-ball was dominated by Jews, since it was a popular inner city game in the Jewish neighborhoods. Good HS players would get scholarships to summer camps in the Catskills to play against the rich Jewish kids. Having a good team was a big selling point for the summer camps. Later on, the camps would give scholarships to the better black kids. Wilt Chamberlain spent his summers in the Catskills. He lost the NCAA championship to a team of Jewish kids who spent their summers playing against Wilt.

    In those days, many of the top college teams were either in NYC or had a lot of NYC Jews. CCNY and NYU were power houses back then.

    In later years the sport became less popular among Jews and more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana as from the entire continent of Africa.
    , @Jack D

    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops.
     
    It is for someone who never saw a basketball until he was nearly an adult.

    Bol said that growing up that he didn't know how tall he was because they didn't have the concept of measuring human height in units in his village. It was just not a thing.
    , @Pericles

    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you’re introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?

     

    Basketball is an easy, dumb sport in many ways. Apart from tallness being a deciding factor(*), don't forget that what decides your team's fate in the NBA is getting two good guys, no more. Makes life easier for the 'analysts'. Scoring is on the pinball level while spectators get their mood pumped up by cheerleaders waggling their bits in the breaks, along with some plain drunkenness. And when I see a clip from a game I usually wonder what is the median IQ on the court.

    (*) But not the only one. International games show that some European teams (like Spain and Croatia) actually are larger and more robust than the US team, though the US tends to win anyway.
  64. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    I understand the temptation to treat Hazony as a Magyar surname.

    But in Hebrew the name is spelled:

    חזוני

    which means “my vision” from ” חזונ” = prophecy (prophetic vision)

  65. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    In such an environment, isn’t it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn’t having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a “gateway drug” just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    JackD is right.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    What Hazony is doing is just neoconservatism 2.0. Early neocons were fairly tough talking about racial issues. Did that lead to anything good?
  66. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony
     
    Nah. Naming, shaming, and ridicule is the way to go.

    Unless you want to signal weakness.

    Nah. Naming, shaming, and ridicule is the way to go.

    You are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

  67. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?
     
    It basically seems like Hazony is just trying to get out in front of a new "respectable" Conservatism by rebranding it as: "New and Improved Formula -- Now with 20% More Populism!"

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

    Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

  68. @Jack D
    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there's not much call for the stuff nowadays.

    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there’s not much call for the stuff nowadays.

    The Monkees broke up about the same time as the Beatles, and he was strapped for a while, partly by choice. His mother died in 1980, and he got an inheritance. She had just sold the company to Gillette, for about $170 million in today’s dollars.

    He was comfortable thereafter.

    Among other activities, he officiated at the wedding of A Whitney Brown and Carolyn Wonderland in 2011. On Doug Sahm Hill.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.
  69. Saini, Taleb, Hazony = Zanies. Banality. Oh.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    You don’t get enough credit for these anagrams - they’re always fun.
  70. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    I get what you’re saying but the problem is the Monkees were a pretty amazing band (they fall easily into the top 10 pop acts of the 60’s). Their album Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones is a masterpiece.

  71. @the one they call Desanex

    ... it’s a stereotype that Kenyan runners tend to be skinny, therefore it can’t be true.
     
    I’ve been seeing a rabbit in my yard lately and, for some reason, he’s not afraid of me. I like giving him snacks like pieces of banana peel, broccoli stems and leaves, and celery tops. The thing he gets most excited for, though, is carrots. I’d always assumed Bugs Bunny was an insidious ethnic stereotype, but rabbits really do like carrots.

    I gave my cat catnip one time and she went crazy. I always thought it was a myth.

  72. @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    You and I, my friend, use pseudonyms here because we have to. Ron is independently wealthy, and Steve bravely crossed the Rubicon years ago. Contrary to what you just wrote, I — unlike you — stand by them both, with all their mortal faults.

    I send them both money. Not enough to make a difference in their lives, it talks nevertheless.

    Things are not the neat package you imply them to be. You comment here anonymously as we all do. That is your right and ours. Benjamin Franklin did the same.

    Anonymity is not the same thing as distance.

    If everything were as nice and fair as you imply, then we could use our real names here and Steve could be on TV. To put it simply in a way you might understand: You lie.

    • Replies: @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

  73. @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    Taleb is a Christian Arab.

    I think he calls himself a Christian Phoenician.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Does he speak Phoenician?
    , @BengaliCanadianDude
    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-phoenicians-dna/in-lebanon-dna-may-yet-heal-rifts-idUSL0559096520070910

    https://stepfeed.com/dna-tests-prove-lebanese-are-direct-descendants-of-ancient-phoenicians-8777
  74. @Dave Pinsen
    (I’m now blocked by Hazony, Taleb, and Saini, and followed by Claire).

    https://twitter.com/deploradude/status/1155458051404632065?s=21

    Once genetics advances to actual engineering, we will need a bigger boat for the “racial determinism” angle.

  75. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    Hey! Retract this post.

    I like the Monkees.

  76. @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    I give you credit, Jack. You stay on message. Never give an inch, no matter how absurd it makes you look.

    Hazony isn’t a “gateway” drug; he’s a sedative. And you know it. His job is to keep gentile whites from thinking like Jews and every other tribe in the world. If by some miracle, he doesn’t realize this, then he’s an idiot, but academics are better than most at fooling themselves so perhaps I shouldn’t be so harsh.

    Hazony is the globalists’ realization that ignoring nationalist sentiments isn’t working so they’re hoping to co-opt those movements into a safe zone. Hell, it’ll probably work. Gentile whites just seem desperate to avoid the realities of race and tribalism.

    • LOL: IHTG
  77. anon[298] • Disclaimer says:

    The Greyhound Racing Association has filed a lawsuit against the Weiner Dog Racing Association for discriminatory exclusion on the basis of race from Weiner Dog races. The WDRA filed a defence stating that exclusion has nothing to do with race/evolution/breeding and everything to do with qualifying leg-length as per the WDRA charter.

  78. I recall Taleb explaining in his book “Skin in the Game” that neuroscience is mainly bullshit. That its mathematically impossible to map/predict gene and neuron combos (and he didn’t say it but but that subsequently includes IQ.) That the hopes of Steve Hsu and Richard Haier to discover IQ genes/alleles is a fools game.

    I remember trying to understand Taleb’s arguments on IQ during the 2018 Taleb-Sailer “Battle of the Bands” debate, but I’m not sufficiently quantitatively literate to fully grasp it. (*crying noises in background* sniff, “I’m a failure!”)

    https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

    Linda S. Gottfredson made some great points on some of the weaknesses of IQ data, like its not ratio based but interval. Also, two people may possess the same IQ score but possess very different gene architectures to match/create that score.

    https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2009fallacies.pdf

    Even Arthur Jensen wanted to switch from psychometrics to chronometrics.

    Would any of these changes soothe the rage which is Taleb?

    • Replies: @Pericles

    Would any of these changes soothe the rage which is Taleb?

     

    Well ... No.
  79. @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you

    That’s what “diversity training” is about. You can’t dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.

    We’re already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?

    • Replies: @Vinteuil

    We’re already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?
     
    Precisely so.

    The Present Year version of "calling a deer a horse" is calling Jonathan Yaniv "Jessica," and calling him "her":

    https://www.takimag.com/article/waxing-your-balls-for-social-justice/

    ...except that forcing people to call a deer a horse is merely comical. Forcing them to call a man a woman bespeaks a pathology a thousand times more savage and more terrifying.
    , @Forbes

    That’s what “diversity training” is about. You can’t dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.
     
    Yeah--it used to be called "sensitivity training," and it's all a load of horseshit. Everyone knows it is a waste of time, though employers use it to defend against hostile workplace lawsuit liability.

    The reason such diversity training falsehoods are introduced is because far too many employees have way too much time on their hands, introducing their melodramas and personal opinions into the workplace, creating havoc among their co-workers, rather than sticking to their job responsibilities, and minding their own business.

    So everyone gets tortured with nonsense to warn the bad apples about their on the job conduct.
    , @Pericles
    Point man make woman.
  80. @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    It may be more than a story:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Gao#Calling_a_deer_a_horse
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_the_Grand_Historian#Reliability_and_accuracy

  81. David Reich has made it non-taboo among human genetics researchers to acknowledge, at least very circumspectly, the link between race and IQ. Here for instance is a tweet from another major figure, Ewan Birnley:

    “More seriously, my position here about the genetics of IQ and educational attainment is *NOT* that there is no genetics to it, nor fluctuation in populations, it is that other traits, in particular skin pigmentation, don’t predict the genetics IQ traits. Same with height.”

    You have to pick apart the deliberately obscure wording here. Eliminating the two double-negatives from the first part of the sentence, and replacing “fluctuation in populations” with the simpler and clearer “differ across races” the first part becomes:

    IQ is partly genetic and differs across races.

    The last part of this long sentence, about skin pigmentation and height, is just verbal distraction to throw the SJW posse off his scent.

  82. @Buzz Mohawk
    You and I, my friend, use pseudonyms here because we have to. Ron is independently wealthy, and Steve bravely crossed the Rubicon years ago. Contrary to what you just wrote, I -- unlike you -- stand by them both, with all their mortal faults.

    I send them both money. Not enough to make a difference in their lives, it talks nevertheless.

    Things are not the neat package you imply them to be. You comment here anonymously as we all do. That is your right and ours. Benjamin Franklin did the same.

    Anonymity is not the same thing as distance.

    If everything were as nice and fair as you imply, then we could use our real names here and Steve could be on TV. To put it simply in a way you might understand: You lie.

    Steve could be on TV

    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn’t Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who’d replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear “This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers…”

    Or, “This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land.”

    • Agree: Vinteuil, Richard B
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Did you catch the NPR story a few weeks back, where they talk about how wonderful Paris is (there was a brief break from painting their faces with ash because Trump ate the sun, they actually describe some interesting Parisian sights), and their token dig at Evil America is this Yale-educated black woman who lives in Paris having grown up in Harlem. She repeatedly and effortfully denounces class bigotry while under the impression that it is racism. At one point she even comes close to admitting it's class not race. But she says the moment she realized Paris was different from the evil American oppression was when she and her friend attempted to cut in libe to see a movie. You see, evil oppressive white people in evil America (spit!) would oppressively let her cut.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    That would be great! Very entertaining too. I bet the ratings would be a lot higher.

    During my college years, I volunteered at the local NPR station, located above a good diner on a downtown corner. Even then, when I was thoroughly indoctrinated into Leftism and anti-American everything, ready to eat my own shit if Asian or Latin American communists did the same, the recordings that came to us on reel-to-reel tape seemed somnolent to me.

    Nothing has changed. That is a theme I repeat here: Everything SJW newsworthy here in America now was already addressed in the 1980s. Been there. Done that.

    Your programming would be great!

    , @hhsiii
    Lol, that sounds like my NPR experience. Listen all the time. It really is amazingly big how much is race baiting, open border defense, Trump bashing and pro free trade. The last part is truly the tell.
    , @midtown
    I'd pay a year's subscription for that content.
    , @Elsewhere

    What a treat it would be to hear “This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter.” ... Or, “This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. ”
     
    I'm dying...
    , @snorlax
    The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is what the British call a quango, so it's not that simple. Anyway, George W. Bush of all people tried to do something like that; the Dems of course stymied the effort while destroying the life and reputation of the guy in charge of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Tomlinson
  83. Taleb is just massively overrated. His IQ meltdown was the wake-up call that he wasn’t /ourguy/, but going through his older posts and books, it became clear that he was actually never /ourguy/, he just appealed to us (or to me at least) because of his smack-talking about credentialed “experts”.

    But he’s more like the semi-autistic black sheep of the family than actually being against the family; the cynical, nihilistic teenager who wears all black and listens to death metal, but still really loves his intellectual tribe and wants to be accepted by them, despite the occasional tantrum. At best he’s a slightly rebellious progressive, not a rightist or reactionary who happens to have climbed the elite ranks.

  84. @Jack D
    I have no reason to doubt that Hazony doesn't sincerely hold his own beliefs. I have no evidence that Hazony noticed that there's a market demand for radical but not too radical right wing thinkers and cynically decided to fill that niche as a nice way to make a living. I don't know who the shadowy "System" is who was ready and waiting to use him to co-opt the REAL thinkers like Ron.

    Just as Hazony sincerely holds his own beliefs, there are others who hold similar beliefs and who DON'T belief in fringey nutjobs like Unz who believe in the blood libel and are Holocaust deniers. In the current PC environment, you'll note that there are many here (including you and me) who don't use their real names because they don't want to be publicly associated with "far right" figures like Steve (and that Steve has been largely deplatformed from mainstream publications such as the National Review). In such an environment, isn't it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn't having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a "gateway drug" just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.

    there are many here (including you and me) who don’t use their real names because they don’t want to be publicly associated with “far right” figures like Steve

    That’s me. I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here.

    • Replies: @David
    I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here

    We read _Between the World and Me_ in my all-female (except me) book club. A few people thought it was brilliant/inspiring/lyrical/moving. An equal number spoke against it, but in very carefully measured terms. I was tempted, of course, to go all iStevey on it, but I like getting invited back, so…

    Sigh
    , it’s like that most everywhere I go. The lefties say whatever they want to say and clearly don’t give a crαp if they’re offending any conservatives in the room, and the conservatives always walk on eggshells.
     
  85. I lived in England and when it comes to sports coverage the focus on soccer is just overwhelming. And from 3000 professional players about 10 are said to be asian, and that includes guys of mixed background with british names. Theres also a strong anti middle class and anti intellectual bias in the soccer world there too.

  86. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    “Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.

    No, it’s Hebrew. חזוני. It means something like “prophetic”.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I lot of Israelis have made up names like Hazony - this is something they have in common with African Americans. Sometimes these names sound a little bit like their former European names - Green became Ben Gurion and sometimes not (Mileikowsky becomes Netanyahu). Since these names were invented they tend to be unique - I'll bet that anyone named Hazony is related to Yoram.

    Their first names tend to sound like space alien names - Yoram is a good space alien name. Hebrew, which didn't have words for a lot of things since it went out of daily use 2,000 years ago, did have lots of perfectly good first names like Moshe and Shlomo but these were too old school and biblical for good Israeli socialist pioneers so they invented new ones. Israel was a place where you could reinvent yourself. When American blacks give themselves made up names like Keshawn or Deshawn it's trashy but when Israelis call their kids Ronit and Gal it's cool.
  87. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    We live in bizarro world.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream "conservatives" are quick to claim that Baltimore's problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    A person might hold pretty ridiculous religious beliefs, but be the soul of common sense and facing reality in her everyday life. These people willfully ignore observable reality. I wonder how many would be willing to take a walk one night in one of the less than salubrious neighborhoods in Baltimore. They twist themselves into a pretzel justifying to themselves and others why they wouldn't.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    No argument on the thrust here. There’s nothing worse than GOPe and these PC cuckservatives.

    Nonetheless it is true that Baltimore is *particularly* worse because it has been ruled by Democrats–or more honestly both that “progressives”/”minoritarians” have been in charge in the US the last 50+ and that Baltimore is locally dominanted by them.

    It’s just flat out true that blacks behaved *better* when i was born under an essentially “liberal but normal/traditional” regime that would be considered “facism!” today.

    Progressivism is destructive even in your modern up-scale suburb. But some direct clown shit–mentally ill boys sent into your daughter’s locker room–aside it mostly functions. The real damage there is longterm–filling your kids head with insanely stupid ideas, telling the girls their great goal in life is corporate CEO, suppressing your children’s fertility.

    But as Steve has pointed out, for people on the left half of the bell curve, with poorer native judgement, progressivism is just an absolute disaster–crime, dysfunction, illegitimacy, a breakdown in public order, educational collapse, a collapse of work, generational welfare class and a generational criminal class … more crime, more illegitimacy, more welfare.

    • Replies: @midtown
    I agree that Baltimore won't transform into utopia given its current demographics, but it could at least be cleaned up. A lot of majority-minority charter schools function pretty well due to a "broken windows" policy on steroids. Strictness will get you a fair distance in these circumstances, if not all the way.
  88. Yoram Hazoni has had an interesting career. One of his recent ventures has been founding a college (in Israel) modelled on St John’s College —
    https://www.sjc.edu.

    Before that he ran a magazine (Azure/תכלת, now defunct) that tried to acquaint Israelis with classical Anglo-American liberalism.

    Love him or hate him, but it’s a mistake to try to place him on the spectrum of American Jewish punditry. He’s an Israel-American hybrid.

  89. The lionization by some of a middle-brow like Taleb has always been regrettable.

    I stopped reading his book at the point where he was talking about standard deviation, and essentially said “I won’t bother telling you what that is.” Left me with the feeling that he was just incapable of describing the idea, either how it is arrived at or what it means.

    The idea that the crash of 2008 was a “black swan” event is ludicrous. It was completely predictable and in fact was predicted by lots of people who had studied similar effects of credit expansion in the past or just paid attention to P/E ratios. Heck, even a rube like me knew what was going to happen.

  90. @International Jew

    As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you
     
    That's what "diversity training" is about. You can't dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.
     
    We're already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?

    We’re already there; who dares to “misgender” a tranny?

    Precisely so.

    The Present Year version of “calling a deer a horse” is calling Jonathan Yaniv “Jessica,” and calling him “her”:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/waxing-your-balls-for-social-justice/

    …except that forcing people to call a deer a horse is merely comical. Forcing them to call a man a woman bespeaks a pathology a thousand times more savage and more terrifying.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    And of course it was the eunuch. We are the latter-day Confucianists, insisting on the rectification of names.
  91. Hazony very sloppily attempted to create a pathway to repair the spiritual and intellectual damage of cultmarx. David French’s recent efforts have been attempts to acknowledge reality while not obviously questioning leftist dogma. Taleb’s most exciting and correct strikes have been in pointing out big unquestioned wrong ideas, but race is a real blind spot for him.
    The intellectual game is now recognizably Soviet, something like curling or bacci, trying to get the text as close to what is for non-intellectuals as screamingly obvious as possible without ever goimg over the line. That sounds sad but it’s good. If intellectuals are trying to mumble something like the truth it means they’re not mired in the other major intellectual game, which is falling in love with disastrously bad ideas.

  92. @Redneck farmer
    It really is becoming an iSteve world, isn't it?

    Sadly, one gets the impression that Taleb won’t concede any ground to race realists or HBD folks because he’s paranoid of a slippery slope. A slope leading to a Hollywood dystopia where Blond haired villains like Roy Batty or Max Zorin oppress all others. It’s tiresome really.

  93. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    Did you catch the NPR story a few weeks back, where they talk about how wonderful Paris is (there was a brief break from painting their faces with ash because Trump ate the sun, they actually describe some interesting Parisian sights), and their token dig at Evil America is this Yale-educated black woman who lives in Paris having grown up in Harlem. She repeatedly and effortfully denounces class bigotry while under the impression that it is racism. At one point she even comes close to admitting it’s class not race. But she says the moment she realized Paris was different from the evil American oppression was when she and her friend attempted to cut in libe to see a movie. You see, evil oppressive white people in evil America (spit!) would oppressively let her cut.

  94. @Harry Baldwin
    They are unjustly underrepresented in our cosmopolitan multicultural project.

    That's the sort of "problem" George H.W. Bush's Diversity Visa program was intended to rectify.

    Along with that, the new-world-order Pappy Bush gave us a doubling of largely Third World sourced immigration (thanks to the earlier 65 Act) and created the hb1 visa, a program which has brought many more Angela Sainis to our fine shores.
    Someone should do an analysis just calculating the demographic effects of the 1990 Immigration Act, since we all basically know what the 65 Act did demographically in its first 2 decades prior using data from the 1970-1990 censuses.

  95. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    That would be great! Very entertaining too. I bet the ratings would be a lot higher.

    During my college years, I volunteered at the local NPR station, located above a good diner on a downtown corner. Even then, when I was thoroughly indoctrinated into Leftism and anti-American everything, ready to eat my own shit if Asian or Latin American communists did the same, the recordings that came to us on reel-to-reel tape seemed somnolent to me.

    Nothing has changed. That is a theme I repeat here: Everything SJW newsworthy here in America now was already addressed in the 1980s. Been there. Done that.

    Your programming would be great!

    • Replies: @International Jew

    Your programming would be great!
     
    It's what Trump would have done if he'd really lived up to the left's idea of him.
  96. @Jack D
    He didn't say that they were bad, just that they were artificially constructed and "inauthentic". The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality (if perhaps not truly great) - e.g. Kraft Cracker Barrel cheddar cheese. Or you can be 100% authentic and yet suck - some "artisanal" cheese that tastes like a barnyard (which in turn is still perhaps better than tasting like a chemical factory). But the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package - authenticity AND quality.

    …the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.

    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs – and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. “Yesterday” & “Hey, Jude” were, for a time, all the rage – but, for today’s youth, they’re about as relevant as Stephen Foster’s “Camptown Races” or “Old Folks at Home.” I don’t see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future – or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60’s pop group.

    The phrase “true greats” should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'm not saying that they were Mozart but the comparison to Stephen Foster is apt - how many of Foster's contemporaries can you name? Can you hum the tune to Camptown Races? 150 years from now (if we still have a Western civilization) after the Gerry and the Pacemakers become a name known only to a handful of buffs, the average person will still know who the Beatles were and will still be able to hum a few Beatles tunes.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    I disagree.

    True greats can be in any genre. Very much including popular music.

    And true greats can fall out of fashion. At one point Bach’s son, an early Classical composer, was far more popular than his Baroque father. These days the elder Bach is more highly regarded.

    There were some true greats who wrote popular music. Writers of Christmas songs over the past few hundred years. Stephen Foster was a true great. So was Irving Berlin, Leadbelly, and others. And yes, the Beatles were in the category of true greats. Their music survives 50 years after Abbey Road. Just as Stephen Foster’s music survives more than 150 years after be wrote it.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    “Yesterday” & “Hey, Jude” were, for a time, all the rage –
     
    And highly overrated. Beatles songs are like U.S. presidents. The worst are ranked at the top, the best, or, more to the point, least destructive, at the bottom.

    The most iconic Beatle song is "Bad to Me". On a tinny radio, it sounds like Paul wrote it for John's voice. But in reality, John wrote it for Billy J Kramer's.
    , @PiltdownMan
    It's easy for someone of a later generation to mistake "Hey Jude" and "Yesterday" as being emblematic Beatles songs from the late Sixties that Boomers would listen to in their youth, but I clearly recall that those two conventional sounding violin and piano ballads, in particular, were popular with my parents' generation which couldn't relate at all to the rock revolution going on around them.

    The vast majority of the younger crowd was listening to other, more exciting music all around them, from the Airplane to the Dead, to Cream and all the rock that was just spilling forth. Beatles' tunes that got airplay were numbers like "Back in the USSR", "Revolution" or "Get Back".

    , @jim jones
    Kids react to the Beatles:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M9US-cXJMo
    , @Pericles
    For that period, don't sleep on the insidious ear worms of ABBA.
  97. @Reg Cæsar

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level
     
    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops. Put him next to another Bol, Todd, the creator of Little Free Libraries. It will have to be caskets, though; both men are gone.

    Perhaps we can persuade Bol Bol, Manute's son, to devote a Little Free Library to his father's memory-- at his eye level. Make sure the steps are safe.


    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you're introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?


    Baseball, cricket, soccer, ice and field hockey, and others appear at first glance to be populated mostly by normal people.

    It would be interesting to see a basketball league with a height limit. The sport is popular in Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

    I played a few pickup b-ball games in the Far East, many years ago. Sometimes against local college students, other times against the local army draftees.

    In the US I was a bad player. I the Far East I was dominating in those games because (a) I was slightly over 6’ tall and (b) I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall. The former was genetic, the latter cultural.

    In the early days of the sport, b-ball was dominated by Jews, since it was a popular inner city game in the Jewish neighborhoods. Good HS players would get scholarships to summer camps in the Catskills to play against the rich Jewish kids. Having a good team was a big selling point for the summer camps. Later on, the camps would give scholarships to the better black kids. Wilt Chamberlain spent his summers in the Catskills. He lost the NCAA championship to a team of Jewish kids who spent their summers playing against Wilt.

    In those days, many of the top college teams were either in NYC or had a lot of NYC Jews. CCNY and NYU were power houses back then.

    In later years the sport became less popular among Jews and more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana as from the entire continent of Africa.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall.
     
    Bob Uecker said the only way to deal with a wild pitch or passed ball from a knuckleballer was to let it roll to a stop.

    more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana
     
    Basketball has been a religion of sorts in rural Indiana for generations. Same for Kentucky, Utah, and a few other places. The geography of the old ABA, which was built on enthusiasm as much as on economics, reflected that.
  98. @International Jew

    “Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.
     
    No, it's Hebrew. חזוני. It means something like "prophetic".

    I lot of Israelis have made up names like Hazony – this is something they have in common with African Americans. Sometimes these names sound a little bit like their former European names – Green became Ben Gurion and sometimes not (Mileikowsky becomes Netanyahu). Since these names were invented they tend to be unique – I’ll bet that anyone named Hazony is related to Yoram.

    Their first names tend to sound like space alien names – Yoram is a good space alien name. Hebrew, which didn’t have words for a lot of things since it went out of daily use 2,000 years ago, did have lots of perfectly good first names like Moshe and Shlomo but these were too old school and biblical for good Israeli socialist pioneers so they invented new ones. Israel was a place where you could reinvent yourself. When American blacks give themselves made up names like Keshawn or Deshawn it’s trashy but when Israelis call their kids Ronit and Gal it’s cool.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Hungarian or not, Hazony gets his welcome:

    https://hungarytoday.hu/orban-meets-israeli-philosopher-yoram-hazony/

    https://hungarytoday.hu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/D_MTI20190325011-1024x683.jpg
    , @International Jew

    Yoram is a good space alien name.
     
    Yoram was one of the kings of ancient Israel — spelled Jehoram in the King James Bible. Yoram is how it's pronounced in Hebrew — יוֹרָם

    A lot of given names people think are modern Israeli coinages, are actually biblical or mishnaic. They're just less well-known in the west. This is in part thanks to the decline in biblical literacy among both Christians and Jews in the west.

    You see a similar phenomenon among Mexican immigrants in the US: they draw their kids' names from a smaller set than the one familiar to Mexican Mexicans.

    African American names likewise reflect a decline in literary sophistication, unfortunately from a low level to begin with.

    Trust me, Yoram doesn't sound like a space alien name to a Hebrew speaker. (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)

  99. OT

    (((Steyer))) seems to have in incurable case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    https://twitter.com/Lagud2/status/1155960557872144386

  100. @istevefan

    Taleb is a Christian Arab.
     
    I think he calls himself a Christian Phoenician.

    Does he speak Phoenician?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Hazoni would do a lot better tban Taleb, if you handed him a Phoenician text.
  101. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    I’m not saying that they were Mozart but the comparison to Stephen Foster is apt – how many of Foster’s contemporaries can you name? Can you hum the tune to Camptown Races? 150 years from now (if we still have a Western civilization) after the Gerry and the Pacemakers become a name known only to a handful of buffs, the average person will still know who the Beatles were and will still be able to hum a few Beatles tunes.

    • Agree: Paleo Liberal
  102. Angela Saini writing in Scientific American:

    In Superior: The Return of Race Science, I interview researchers at the cutting edge of research into human difference to journalistically expose the dangerous history of scientific racism. It is ground that has been trodden by respected scholars in the past, including evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould, historian Evelynn Hammonds and anthropologist Jonathan Marks, as well as journalists such as Amy Harmon at the New York Times. Despite all our efforts, sometimes it feels as though we are no further along.

    If anything, the public debate around race and science has sunk into the mud. To state even the undeniable fact that we are one human species today means falling afoul of a cabal of conspiracy theorists. The “race realists,” as they call themselves online, join the growing ranks of climate change deniers, anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers in insisting that science is under the yoke of some grand master plan designed to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. In their case, a left-wing plot to promote racial equality when, as far as they’re concerned, racial equality is impossible for biological reasons.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Lol, shouldn't it by now be Pseudo-Scientific American.
  103. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    I disagree.

    True greats can be in any genre. Very much including popular music.

    And true greats can fall out of fashion. At one point Bach’s son, an early Classical composer, was far more popular than his Baroque father. These days the elder Bach is more highly regarded.

    There were some true greats who wrote popular music. Writers of Christmas songs over the past few hundred years. Stephen Foster was a true great. So was Irving Berlin, Leadbelly, and others. And yes, the Beatles were in the category of true greats. Their music survives 50 years after Abbey Road. Just as Stephen Foster’s music survives more than 150 years after be wrote it.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil

    True greatness can be in any genre. Very much including popular music.
     
    Agreed. There are a few popular songs that I can think of just off the top of my head that have stood the test of time. One or two of them might even have been written in the 20th Century. All honor to them.
  104. @Jack D
    I lot of Israelis have made up names like Hazony - this is something they have in common with African Americans. Sometimes these names sound a little bit like their former European names - Green became Ben Gurion and sometimes not (Mileikowsky becomes Netanyahu). Since these names were invented they tend to be unique - I'll bet that anyone named Hazony is related to Yoram.

    Their first names tend to sound like space alien names - Yoram is a good space alien name. Hebrew, which didn't have words for a lot of things since it went out of daily use 2,000 years ago, did have lots of perfectly good first names like Moshe and Shlomo but these were too old school and biblical for good Israeli socialist pioneers so they invented new ones. Israel was a place where you could reinvent yourself. When American blacks give themselves made up names like Keshawn or Deshawn it's trashy but when Israelis call their kids Ronit and Gal it's cool.
  105. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    Lol, that sounds like my NPR experience. Listen all the time. It really is amazingly big how much is race baiting, open border defense, Trump bashing and pro free trade. The last part is truly the tell.

  106. @eah
    ...so she is as ignorant of sports as I am of soap operas.

    She couldn't be that ignorant of sports (?) -- and if she is, then why is she reviewing a book about sports (which she knows nothing about -- ?) and race ("Angela Saini’s review in Nature of a book about race and sports")?

    From a comment at the Cochran site:

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It's hard to disagree -- the question is why -- ?

    Because as Vox Day has observed, SJWs always double down when they’re wrong.

  107. @Vinteuil

    We’re already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?
     
    Precisely so.

    The Present Year version of "calling a deer a horse" is calling Jonathan Yaniv "Jessica," and calling him "her":

    https://www.takimag.com/article/waxing-your-balls-for-social-justice/

    ...except that forcing people to call a deer a horse is merely comical. Forcing them to call a man a woman bespeaks a pathology a thousand times more savage and more terrifying.

    And of course it was the eunuch. We are the latter-day Confucianists, insisting on the rectification of names.

  108. @Reg Cæsar

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level
     
    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops. Put him next to another Bol, Todd, the creator of Little Free Libraries. It will have to be caskets, though; both men are gone.

    Perhaps we can persuade Bol Bol, Manute's son, to devote a Little Free Library to his father's memory-- at his eye level. Make sure the steps are safe.


    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you're introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?


    Baseball, cricket, soccer, ice and field hockey, and others appear at first glance to be populated mostly by normal people.

    It would be interesting to see a basketball league with a height limit. The sport is popular in Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops.

    It is for someone who never saw a basketball until he was nearly an adult.

    Bol said that growing up that he didn’t know how tall he was because they didn’t have the concept of measuring human height in units in his village. It was just not a thing.

  109. @Reg Cæsar
    The Monkees were carefully chosen for their mix of skills and appeal. Many of their songs were from the top writers of the day-- Goffin-King, Neil Diamond, John Stewart, etc.

    Their house composers were Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart, responsible for about half their hits. They had put their own performing career on hold for that, but it paid off hugely in royalties, and Boyce and Hart were Monkees in all but name on the revival circuit. (Mike Nesmith wished them well, but had no need to tour himself. His mother had invented Liquid Paper, and he was set for life.)


    Boyce, like Del Shannon, shot himself to death. Hart's recent autobiography only briefly mentions his former partner's passing, not giving its cause. That's weird.

    One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer):

    • Replies: @Peterike
    “One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer)”

    “Pleasant Valley Sunday” is another crass anti-white song written by Jews.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Peter Tork (RIP) was the American Ringo.

    Micky Dolenz wasted a promising song title, "Randy Scouse Git", but only one Monkee was a real songwriter, and it wasn't him. Dolenz was the voice of Boyce and Hart, in the way Dionne Warwicke was for Bacharach and David. Except for "Valleri". Why Davy Jones sang it instead I don't know, but it might be tied to the fact that an exec asked them for a song with a girl's name, and Boyce lied and said one was already done. (Don't you hate it when your co-workers obligate you like that?)

    Mike Nesmith was the creative one. I nominate this for the band's best original, and among their best all around:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JF8QU0ZTsss

    , @hhsiii
    Understood. But fairly similar musically to Paperback Writer, which also takes a shallow dig at shallow culture. Same year. Sonically, PBW back more wallop. McCartney’s bass and Ringo’s drumming particularly. Ringo in that time was in his element (Rain, Paperback Writer and Baby You’re a Rich Man).
  110. I’m not sure if Hazony’s first tweet was supportive, or merely cryptic commentary to his Israeli contemporaries (what the ADL and NYT call “dog whistling,” when Goyim cryptically comment). Hazony stated:

    Ignore the rhetoric and follow the argument. Academic papers on population genetics are fueling the rise of a political theory based on racial determinism. Academic freedom isn’t at all the only pressing issue here.

    I took this to mean ignore the obvious propagandist Taleb and listen to the erudite Mischling Goddess Lehmann. I took the entire quote to mean, “We have now arrived at the point where articulate and good faith commentators, like Lehmann, are willing to state the obvious: that race is, at least in part, a determinant of sociological realities. As such, people like Lehmann and her writers are openly considering how their own polities should react to the obvious reality of racial differences.”

    The Ashkenazi are in their best position, ever, to have the entire world openly acknowledge that they’re really smart and have certain other characteristics that lead to the acquisition of wealth and power. There is no unifying ethnic group in any of the major diaspora countries to institute another anti-Jewish genocide (see diversity in U.S., E.U., the other Five Eyes etc.). They also have a very nice Mediterranean territory of vast ethno-religious significance on which they have a couple hundred ballistic payloads, and probably at least a few inter-continental delivery devices for those payloads.

    Perhaps Hazony was gingerly suggesting to his coethnics that Jews stop being the chief propagandists of the Marx -> Boaz -> Gould -> Lewontin -> Turkheimer Endless Stream of Lies and Bullshit. It’s making everybody look bad.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?
    , @SFG
    I suspect it's more about the GOP realizing they have to go nationalist but still being afraid of looking like Nazis, and in comes Hazony who's apparently a fan of Anglo-American political thought according to some of the commenters here, and realizes he's the man of the hour.

    It could be a nice way to launder nationalism through Zionism--see, we'll leave you guys your mansions on Park Avenue, just let us slow immigration. (Seems totally reasonable to me, but then I'm not at the Harvard Hillel.)

    I have no clue if it's going to work.
  111. @Jack D
    He didn't say that they were bad, just that they were artificially constructed and "inauthentic". The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality (if perhaps not truly great) - e.g. Kraft Cracker Barrel cheddar cheese. Or you can be 100% authentic and yet suck - some "artisanal" cheese that tastes like a barnyard (which in turn is still perhaps better than tasting like a chemical factory). But the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package - authenticity AND quality.

    The Beatles at their absolute peak:

    Authenticity & quality?

    Greatness?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    "Hey Jude" and "Let It Be" get far too much attention and praise now whenever people refer to how great that band was. Please. The greatness of the Beatles, whatever is was, was in all the music they made, for many years. Those two songs are, to me at least, mostly Paul McCartney features released in the late, depressed years and not even particularly representative of the band's oeuvre.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I was driving a cab in NYC when Hey Jude came out. It is 7 minutes of self indulgence and they played it over and over, probably so DJs could take a leak. I hate it to this day.
    , @Inquiring Mind
    I call your "Hey Jude" and I raise you Michael Nesmith's "Different Drum"

    https://youtu.be/w9qsDgA1q8Y

  112. Douthat’s latest column in the NYT offers another hint that he’s a secret Sailer fan:

    “When conservatives talk about liberal media bias, for instance, their complaint isn’t necessarily that mainstream outlets fail to report stories that might confirm a conservative worldview. Rather, it’s that they report on them in ways that make them sound dry and dull or just random and unrepresentative, without ever acknowledging their wider interest or significance.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/opinion/sunday/the-stories-that-divide-us.html

    Other than Steve, I honestly can’t think of any conservatives pointing out that liberals often present conservative worldview-affirming stories in a “dry and dull” fashion (“this is a very complicated and boring story so don’t pay too much attention to it”). I always saw it as an original observation by Steve.

    • Replies: @SFG
    He's said some pretty iStevey things on occasion. Heck, David Brooks quoted Steve directly on natalism before they went after him.

    Honestly, I'm here to read what all the right-wing pundits are going to say two weeks before they say it. 200 years later Steve will be seen as an Avicenna-like figure by Chinese historians piecing together the decline of the West. "See, if they'd listened to him they wouldn't be working as houseboys for us. Johnny, get my chopsticks!"
  113. @AnotherDad

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.
     
    No argument on the thrust here. There's nothing worse than GOPe and these PC cuckservatives.

    Nonetheless it is true that Baltimore is *particularly* worse because it has been ruled by Democrats--or more honestly both that "progressives"/"minoritarians" have been in charge in the US the last 50+ and that Baltimore is locally dominanted by them.

    It's just flat out true that blacks behaved *better* when i was born under an essentially "liberal but normal/traditional" regime that would be considered "facism!" today.

    Progressivism is destructive even in your modern up-scale suburb. But some direct clown shit--mentally ill boys sent into your daughter's locker room--aside it mostly functions. The real damage there is longterm--filling your kids head with insanely stupid ideas, telling the girls their great goal in life is corporate CEO, suppressing your children's fertility.

    But as Steve has pointed out, for people on the left half of the bell curve, with poorer native judgement, progressivism is just an absolute disaster--crime, dysfunction, illegitimacy, a breakdown in public order, educational collapse, a collapse of work, generational welfare class and a generational criminal class ... more crime, more illegitimacy, more welfare.

    I agree that Baltimore won’t transform into utopia given its current demographics, but it could at least be cleaned up. A lot of majority-minority charter schools function pretty well due to a “broken windows” policy on steroids. Strictness will get you a fair distance in these circumstances, if not all the way.

  114. Harzony is going nowhere fast. Most Americans like Israel because they despise Muslims since the 1970s.

    Chick Norris fought Muslims not Israelis.

    However there is no calling the bullet back. Sixty years of anti White stuff and hate Whites has birthed White identity.

  115. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    I’d pay a year’s subscription for that content.

  116. @Vinteuil
    The Beatles at their absolute peak:

    https://youtu.be/A_MjCqQoLLA

    Authenticity & quality?

    Greatness?

    “Hey Jude” and “Let It Be” get far too much attention and praise now whenever people refer to how great that band was. Please. The greatness of the Beatles, whatever is was, was in all the music they made, for many years. Those two songs are, to me at least, mostly Paul McCartney features released in the late, depressed years and not even particularly representative of the band’s oeuvre.

    • Agree: Forbes
    • Replies: @ganderson
    My two cents worth: The Beatles's Rubber Soul and Revolver are two of the greatest rock and roll albums ever- much of the rest of their oeuvre is somewhat dated- much quality but much Moody Blues/Pink Floyd style pretentiousness.
  117. Published in Nature??

    How long before she wins a genius prize or perhaps the Nobel Prize?

    I mean if Coates can ascend to such heights why not Angela Saini?

  118. @Reg Cæsar
    Saini, Taleb, Hazony = Zanies. Banality. Oh.

    You don’t get enough credit for these anagrams – they’re always fun.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Thanks. But I just find them. It's like panning for gold.
  119. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:

    Could someone outline Taleb’s argument? I do not understand the jargon he uses.

    • Replies: @Uilleam Yr Alban
    He has no argument, hence his statements’ incomprehensibility. Put differently, his argument is: “Neither consider nor talk about this aspect of reality.”
  120. @Hypnotoad666

    He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.
     
    The only flaw in this analogy is that the Monkees had some pretty solid tunes: Last Train to Clarksville; Stepping Stone; etc. They weren't the Beatles, but then again, who is?

    Pleasant Valley Sunday (written by Carole King) is a good tune.

    The allure of Southern California to a young upper Midwesterner in the late 60’s and 70’s can’t be overestimated.

  121. @Reg Cæsar

    I doubt that Nesmith lived off of Liquid Paper royalties. The patent is long expired and there’s not much call for the stuff nowadays.
     
    The Monkees broke up about the same time as the Beatles, and he was strapped for a while, partly by choice. His mother died in 1980, and he got an inheritance. She had just sold the company to Gillette, for about $170 million in today's dollars.

    He was comfortable thereafter.

    Among other activities, he officiated at the wedding of A Whitney Brown and Carolyn Wonderland in 2011. On Doug Sahm Hill.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLfP-FWJ-5c

    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.

     

    I saw him in the tight confines of the Cabooze, between Tepeetown and Little Mogadishu. (I know you know where that is.)

    That song wasn't his, and wasn't really about San Antonio, his hometown. This one is both:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCzi8-H08Jw
  122. @anonymous
    In Taleb's Incerto screed railing against IQ testing, he came up with this gem.

    "In the real world you interview people from their CV (not from some IQ number sent to you as in a thought experiment), and, once you have their CV, the 62 IQ fellow is naturally eliminated. "

    I would say that we'd all be happy to admit immigrants or confer citizenship based on their CV.

    “we’d all be happy to admit immigrants or confer citizenship based on their CV”

    I wouldn’t, because (unless it came say from Holland or Denmark) the CV would probably be forged or written by their cousin, or written after money had changed hands.

  123. @Jack D
    Does he speak Phoenician?

    Hazoni would do a lot better tban Taleb, if you handed him a Phoenician text.

  124. @eah
    OT

    These are President Trump’s tweets this morning. Referring to @RepCummings⁩ as “King Elijah” and using the term “Whites”.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAo43DoXUAE6JyE.jpg

    Interesting exchange after the above tweet:

    https://twitter.com/Darlene4NY/status/1155836158645088256

    https://twitter.com/BurzumVevo/status/1155836725031329792

    I’m glad to see the leader of the free world capitalize the W in “Whites”. Of course Trump is very Victorian in the way he capitalizes any word he wants to. Still, it’s progress.

  125. @Jack Hanson
    To try and co-opt the burgeoning nationalism revival into neocohenism with a special carve out for Israel so they can do whatever they want.

    Someone on The Federalist of all places nailed Hazony to the wall on this and called his project an attempt to establish a cordon sanitaire.

    I don't think it will work because think tanks and intellectual "projects" are 1980s and when you, the big brain intellectual, are getting destroyed by Twitter users with anime loli avatars, it tends to call into question your abilities and whether you know what you re talking about.

    “co-opt the burgeoning nationalism”

    What does this actually mean, specifically?

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?
     
    Bill Kristol, David Frum, and Zack Beauchamp seem to think so.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Obviously considering that Hazony appeared out of nowhere with a "nationalism" conference that featured primarily neocons telling us that nationalism is supporting war with Iran and special pleading regarding why Israel shouldn't take in a million refugees but Europe and the US should.
  126. At the time. everyone in the UK wanted to think that The Monkees phenomenon was just typical Americans trying to copy us by manufacturing a Boy Band to rival the Beatles.

    The trouble was that The Monkees had some great songs that are every bit as memorable as those of the Beatles or any other Pop Group of that era. Their manager apparently made sure to employ only the best songwriters.

    The sixties of course was the Golden Age of Pop.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    The 70s were pretty darn good as well.
    , @Autochthon
    The Beach Boys, not the Monkees (ugh!), were America's answer to the Beatles, and every bit as good if not better.
  127. @Jack D
    I lot of Israelis have made up names like Hazony - this is something they have in common with African Americans. Sometimes these names sound a little bit like their former European names - Green became Ben Gurion and sometimes not (Mileikowsky becomes Netanyahu). Since these names were invented they tend to be unique - I'll bet that anyone named Hazony is related to Yoram.

    Their first names tend to sound like space alien names - Yoram is a good space alien name. Hebrew, which didn't have words for a lot of things since it went out of daily use 2,000 years ago, did have lots of perfectly good first names like Moshe and Shlomo but these were too old school and biblical for good Israeli socialist pioneers so they invented new ones. Israel was a place where you could reinvent yourself. When American blacks give themselves made up names like Keshawn or Deshawn it's trashy but when Israelis call their kids Ronit and Gal it's cool.

    Yoram is a good space alien name.

    Yoram was one of the kings of ancient Israel — spelled Jehoram in the King James Bible. Yoram is how it’s pronounced in Hebrew — יוֹרָם

    A lot of given names people think are modern Israeli coinages, are actually biblical or mishnaic. They’re just less well-known in the west. This is in part thanks to the decline in biblical literacy among both Christians and Jews in the west.

    You see a similar phenomenon among Mexican immigrants in the US: they draw their kids’ names from a smaller set than the one familiar to Mexican Mexicans.

    African American names likewise reflect a decline in literary sophistication, unfortunately from a low level to begin with.

    Trust me, Yoram doesn’t sound like a space alien name to a Hebrew speaker. (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)
     
    How do you perform a bris on a man of steel?
  128. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    I'm not sure if Hazony's first tweet was supportive, or merely cryptic commentary to his Israeli contemporaries (what the ADL and NYT call "dog whistling," when Goyim cryptically comment). Hazony stated:

    Ignore the rhetoric and follow the argument. Academic papers on population genetics are fueling the rise of a political theory based on racial determinism. Academic freedom isn’t at all the only pressing issue here.
     
    I took this to mean ignore the obvious propagandist Taleb and listen to the erudite Mischling Goddess Lehmann. I took the entire quote to mean, "We have now arrived at the point where articulate and good faith commentators, like Lehmann, are willing to state the obvious: that race is, at least in part, a determinant of sociological realities. As such, people like Lehmann and her writers are openly considering how their own polities should react to the obvious reality of racial differences."

    The Ashkenazi are in their best position, ever, to have the entire world openly acknowledge that they're really smart and have certain other characteristics that lead to the acquisition of wealth and power. There is no unifying ethnic group in any of the major diaspora countries to institute another anti-Jewish genocide (see diversity in U.S., E.U., the other Five Eyes etc.). They also have a very nice Mediterranean territory of vast ethno-religious significance on which they have a couple hundred ballistic payloads, and probably at least a few inter-continental delivery devices for those payloads.

    Perhaps Hazony was gingerly suggesting to his coethnics that Jews stop being the chief propagandists of the Marx -> Boaz -> Gould -> Lewontin -> Turkheimer Endless Stream of Lies and Bullshit. It's making everybody look bad.

    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Jealous Lot? We do not want anybody turning into a pillar of salt.
    , @Uilleam Yr Alban
    I thought I read it somewhere, but maybe it’s just the classically Germanic-Jewish surname. I could be wrong.
    , @Cowboy shaw
    It's her married surname. I've tried to find her original name and failed. She is from Adelaide, which is not a Jewish stronghold, and looks just like any other attractive Middle class Australian woman.
    , @SFG
    Looks like that and uncommonly rational...of course she's taken. Hah!

    I've been reading Quillette religiously, and haven't seen anything that would upset the Tribe. Though she may just figure it's a smart way to sneak around the 'Nazi' epithet.
    , @Uilleam Yr Alban
    Eh, I find Jewish women very attractive. The people saying she doesn't look at all Jewish haven't been around many attractive Jewish women.
  129. @Buzz Mohawk
    That would be great! Very entertaining too. I bet the ratings would be a lot higher.

    During my college years, I volunteered at the local NPR station, located above a good diner on a downtown corner. Even then, when I was thoroughly indoctrinated into Leftism and anti-American everything, ready to eat my own shit if Asian or Latin American communists did the same, the recordings that came to us on reel-to-reel tape seemed somnolent to me.

    Nothing has changed. That is a theme I repeat here: Everything SJW newsworthy here in America now was already addressed in the 1980s. Been there. Done that.

    Your programming would be great!

    Your programming would be great!

    It’s what Trump would have done if he’d really lived up to the left’s idea of him.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.

    I am a liberal. I like NPR. But NPR is as biased as Fox News. The difference being the taxpayers don’t pay for Fox.

    There have been truly great things on NPR. For example, I once heard a fantastic interview with Tommy John about modern day sports injuries. I learned a lot. OTOH, within the past hour or so the fellow being interviewed made a casual Trump-bashing comment that the interviewer just let slide.

    Over the years, I remember a few things that were so egregious that even I, a liberal, was shocked that the interviewer didn’t grill the person.
  130. @Paleo Liberal
    I disagree.

    True greats can be in any genre. Very much including popular music.

    And true greats can fall out of fashion. At one point Bach’s son, an early Classical composer, was far more popular than his Baroque father. These days the elder Bach is more highly regarded.

    There were some true greats who wrote popular music. Writers of Christmas songs over the past few hundred years. Stephen Foster was a true great. So was Irving Berlin, Leadbelly, and others. And yes, the Beatles were in the category of true greats. Their music survives 50 years after Abbey Road. Just as Stephen Foster’s music survives more than 150 years after be wrote it.

    True greatness can be in any genre. Very much including popular music.

    Agreed. There are a few popular songs that I can think of just off the top of my head that have stood the test of time. One or two of them might even have been written in the 20th Century. All honor to them.

  131. My 2018 response to Taleb’s Science Denialism on IQ is here.

    steve thinks psychology is a science.

    all the actual evidence is IQ is NOT heritable at all.

    but steve is a shabbos goy so he can’t unnuhstan dis.

    he probably thinks economics is a science too.

    sad!

  132. @Vinteuil
    The Beatles at their absolute peak:

    https://youtu.be/A_MjCqQoLLA

    Authenticity & quality?

    Greatness?

    I was driving a cab in NYC when Hey Jude came out. It is 7 minutes of self indulgence and they played it over and over, probably so DJs could take a leak. I hate it to this day.

  133. @hhsiii
    One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer):

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp_eI23YFZY

    “One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer)”

    “Pleasant Valley Sunday” is another crass anti-white song written by Jews.

  134. @International Jew

    As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you
     
    That's what "diversity training" is about. You can't dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.
     
    We're already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?

    That’s what “diversity training” is about. You can’t dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Yeah–it used to be called “sensitivity training,” and it’s all a load of horseshit. Everyone knows it is a waste of time, though employers use it to defend against hostile workplace lawsuit liability.

    The reason such diversity training falsehoods are introduced is because far too many employees have way too much time on their hands, introducing their melodramas and personal opinions into the workplace, creating havoc among their co-workers, rather than sticking to their job responsibilities, and minding their own business.

    So everyone gets tortured with nonsense to warn the bad apples about their on the job conduct.

  135. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    “co-opt the burgeoning nationalism”

    What does this actually mean, specifically?

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?

    Bill Kristol, David Frum, and Zack Beauchamp seem to think so.

  136. Hazony. A repost. Because ….

    To be more specific, there are essentially two model for nationhood: “Greek” & “Roman”. “Greek” is an ethno-nationalist (common ancestry, language, customs, frequently religion, a sense of common identity & destiny). “Roman” is the progenitor of “civic nationalism” – you belong to a nation if you are citizen, never mind your origin or race or culture. In reality, actual ancient Romans never developed anything from it.

    “Greek” model became the template for Central & East European nations (Germans, Czechs, Poles, Croats, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Russians,…) & it was later called ethnic nationalism. “Roman” model was dominant in Western Europe (France, Britain, Spain,…), named “civic nationalism”.

    But “civic nationalism” is a conundrum. Essentially, more powerful ethnies in those countries used it as a fig-leaf to assimilate other peoples (linguistically, culturally) into their ethnic corpus, while pretending to remain “fair” & non-imposing. In France, French assimilated groups like Bretons or Gascons, and even clearly different German-speaking Alsatians; in Britain, English tried, with more or less success, to assimilate Welsh & Scots & others; in Spain, Castilians to absorb Catalans, Basques, Valencians, ..).

    So, in all cases of “civic nationalism” it is: a) a mask for more powerful ethnic nation to absorb phenotypically- unlike linguistically-culturally- not much different “others”, b) there was not, anytime, an intent to absorb different races (real race-mixing on a significant scale was not technically possible, or in rare cases, it was shunned) or to live side by side with really different cultures (Muslims, Hindus,…). Jews were generally allowed to stay, but they were put into ghettos. They themselves did not want to become a part of, say, French or Spanish “nation”, nor were locals- mostly- enthusiastic about that.

    Any real nation is an extended family with common identity & historical culture.

    As I said earlier, Jews are an anomaly because their focus was on an axis religion- common historical culture- ethnic “genealogical” identity. They switched the identity accent from time to time, but any sociologist & historian will tell you they included, from the beginning, various “races” while retaining the common core of ancient Levantine tribe. Even after secularization in the 19th C, their point of view remained not classically racialist in our, European sense: if your mother was a Jewess, you are a Jew, even if your father is Australian Aborigine, Okinawan, Inuit, Hutu or Amazonian Indian. At least in theory, you are sanctioned by their religious-legal authorities to be a Jew, even if you looked like Kunta Kinte or Fu Manchu. At least, this is the theory.

    Theirs is an ethnic religion, similar to various American Indian tribes, Zoroastrians or Sikhs, but loaded with historically specific elements (their ethnic history is viewed as a sacred history, which is not the case with, say, Sikhs).

    So much for ordinary, historical peoples & nations.

    In the New World, national question is something like a puzzle. Are there nations at all?
    In my view, Canadian nation never existed; American nation did exist from, say, 1790s to 1970s & it was composed of English-speaking whites belonging to Western culture (forms of Christianity & marginally diluted Judaism) & cherishing specifically American national traditions (founding fathers etc). Freed blacks never belonged to the American nation, but they had been American national minority; various Indian peoples living in reservations were not “American” in any national sense.

    When we come to the Hispanic & Portuguese Americas, we see that Bolivar tried to unite all Hispanophone countries in a “nation”, but he failed. Are Mexicans a nation? I don’t know, perhaps they are, a Mestizo nation ruled by light Mestizo/white elite & common culture (language, religion, mostly post-Conquistador history). Peruvians? Bolivians? No, there are too many Indians speaking various non-European languages. Brazilians? Yes & no. They may be considered to be a stratified people where whites clearly dominate & they are defined by their language, different from Spanish (and in a few pockets of Dutch and English) by which they are surrounded.

    So, “proposition nation” has never existed & will never exist. In the world of mass migrations, anti-white advocates try to impose this ludicrous concept on “receiving” countries, which are almost 100% white European in history, culture or identity.

    We all know that there is no chance that anyone rational could consider a black to belong to the Swedish people, even if he speaks only Swedish & lives in that historical-geographic-cultural space; nor would we think that a bunch of whites of, say, Slovak origin could be considered Koreans, even if they totally assimilate into Korean culture. And numbers are crucial: just let, say, 100 million Chinese in Russia & let them assimilate, become Orthodox & speak only Russian as their national language. Would Evgeny Hungovich Pingpongovsky be a Russian, just like the rest- and those Pingponongovskies would constitute 40% of the country?

    Hazony’s hypocrisy is evident from the following: if anyone- in this case,virtually all non-white- could come to the US & become “American” just by learning English, following common law, saying “we” when, theoretically, he refers to Daniel Boone or Buffalo Bill – while remaining Muslim & brown & his heart pointing to Mecca; then, why not let a bunch, hundreds of thousands of Somalis & Ethiopians & Arabs & Gujaratis in?

    They can become “Israelis” just by learning Hebrew as their future primary language, use that particular historical calendar & proudly refer to their historical tribulations like expulsion from Spain & Holocaust.

    Why not let Nigerians & Chinese galore (learning Hebrew etc.) who will say they are proud of their ancestor Abraham & their “people” had suffered greatly during the time of Crusades?

    Hazony is a hypocrite.

    Anyway, I’ve said all this & more on the topic where it appeared: https://www.unz.com/article/yoram-hazony-and-his-israeli-ethnostate-sorry-proposition-nation/

  137. @eah
    OT

    These are President Trump’s tweets this morning. Referring to @RepCummings⁩ as “King Elijah” and using the term “Whites”.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAo43DoXUAE6JyE.jpg

    Interesting exchange after the above tweet:

    https://twitter.com/Darlene4NY/status/1155836158645088256

    https://twitter.com/BurzumVevo/status/1155836725031329792

    The hashtag #WhiteNationalist is currently listing @realDonaldTrump as the top and only hit for ‘People.’

  138. @istevefan

    Taleb is a Christian Arab.
     
    I think he calls himself a Christian Phoenician.

    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-phoenicians-dna/in-lebanon-dna-may-yet-heal-rifts-idUSL0559096520070910

    https://stepfeed.com/dna-tests-prove-lebanese-are-direct-descendants-of-ancient-phoenicians-8777

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians
     
    But the Moslems are inbred, and the Christians are not.

    Though the two groups seem to have influenced each other, and the gap is not as wide in this region as it is in general.
    , @gcochran
    It _is_ dependent upon religion. " Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins. " The Moslems also have more, and more recent, sub-saharan African admixture.
  139. @eah
    ...so she is as ignorant of sports as I am of soap operas.

    She couldn't be that ignorant of sports (?) -- and if she is, then why is she reviewing a book about sports (which she knows nothing about -- ?) and race ("Angela Saini’s review in Nature of a book about race and sports")?

    From a comment at the Cochran site:

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It's hard to disagree -- the question is why -- ?

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It’s hard to disagree — the question is why — ?

    There are always more virgin fields to plow, more bars to be raised–each battle won points to yet more territory to conquer. What could be more obvious.

    The PC/SJW brigades are on a mission to the future, they have no endgame in mind–except the acquisition of power–power over you.. Obama always had that in mind with his declaration about “the right side of history.” It was the “right side” because he was declaring it so. It was your obligation to go along.

    And cucks never learn. They think their compromise(s) will end the game/debate/dispute. It won’t and it doesn’t.

    Most of this is the power politics as previous played out in the French and Russian revolutions.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The PC/SJW brigades are on a mission to the future, they have no endgame in mind–except the acquisition of power–power over you..
     
    The endgame is the eradication of Whites and white ethnies. Couldn't be more obvious.
  140. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bruno
    I don’t understand Talebs appeal. Because someone has a good command of probabilities - I don’t know he made any discovery in the file neither in logic, math, philosophy or cognitive science domain - he can disparage people’s work with ad hominem and straw man arguments.

    As if extremistan and mediocristan added anything to Gauss work (or Spearman factor analysis) ...

    If he wanted to produce an interesting criticism of IQ, he could have started with Jensen « G » raw material and explaining why it would be flawed.

    The Levantine (non Jewish) scientists, Muslim or Christian or Zoroastrian, are gone since a long time. That’s why Iranian call Arabs countries the backward states.

    ‘The Levantine (non Jewish) scientists, ‘

    Lol what an idiot.

  141. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    Jealous Lot? We do not want anybody turning into a pillar of salt.

    • LOL: Kent Nationalist
  142. @Dave Pinsen
    You don’t get enough credit for these anagrams - they’re always fun.

    Thanks. But I just find them. It’s like panning for gold.

  143. @Roger Sweeny
    Of course, the runners have long, thin legs. The question is whether the general population in Kenya has longer, thinner legs.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they do. But looking at a picture of runners to prove that is as silly as using a picture of the offensive line of the New England Patriots to prove that Americans have no necks.

    Here’s a picture of some Kalenjin people, the ethnic group that almost all elite Kenyan runners are from.

    Here’s an NPR article on the Kalenjin from 2013. It went where it would not have dared to go today, in 2019, and would likely have been written very differently, if at all.

    “There are 17 American men in history who have run under 2:10 in the marathon,” Epstein says. “There were 32 Kalenjin who did it in October of 2011.”

    The Role Of Genetics

    Scientists and sports gurus have proposed all sorts of explanations over the years for Kalenjin prowess on the track: from their high-starch diet, to the altitude, to socioeconomics.

    All those factors are important, but none of them explain why this particular tribe is so dominant. That left Epstein when he was writing his book exploring a more controversial line of inquiry: Is there something genetically different about the Kalenjin that makes them superior runners?

    Asking that question almost convinced Epstein to back out of his book contract. He realized he’d have to address sensitive questions of ethnic and racial differences. Academics told him they had evidence of genetic advantage but wouldn’t share their research with him for fear they’d lose their jobs. “And these were professors with tenure,” he says.

    But some scientists did talk to him; and they explained one aspect of innate biology that clearly helps Kalenjin: the shape of their bodies.

    Kalenjin have particularly thin ankles and calves, a body build common to Nilotic tribes who grow up near the equator. Epstein says this is particularly important in running because your leg is like a pendulum. The more weight you have farther away from your center of gravity, the more difficult it is to swing.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners

    • Replies: @Roger Sweeny
    Thanks.
  144. @Anonymous
    Could someone outline Taleb's argument? I do not understand the jargon he uses.

    He has no argument, hence his statements’ incomprehensibility. Put differently, his argument is: “Neither consider nor talk about this aspect of reality.”

  145. @Dave Pinsen
    (I’m now blocked by Hazony, Taleb, and Saini, and followed by Claire).

    https://twitter.com/deploradude/status/1155458051404632065?s=21

    I’ve read his books and some of his papers, but nntaleb just doesn’t have patience for people who disagree/differ with him–and less patience with people who have difficulty understanding him. It tends to make him look close-minded. I’m sure he thinks he doesn’t suffer fools gladly. And I know he doesn’t care about my opinion.

  146. @Jack D
    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of "calling a deer a horse". This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it's obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are. The followers in turn know that if they fail to go along, they may be outed as less than true believers ("racists"). As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you and sets you up for further humiliation - your overlords in effect DARE you to call them on their BS, knowing that you're afraid to do so. Accept your cuckhood!

    In other words, it's a power play. It's an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don't recognize it because we don't have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it. Maybe we'll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we'd like.

    Jack D wrote:

    The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are.
    [snip]

    In other words, it’s a power play. It’s an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don’t recognize it because we don’t have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it.

    Oh, I’d say pretty much all political systems and all religions do the same thing. You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh. You want to be a good Muslim? Pretend that Muhammad was not a mass murderer and child molester. You want to be a good American? Pretend that the USA has not chosen to get involved in more wars in the last seventy years than any other regime on the planet.

    And, similarly for a good socialist or good conservative or whatever.

    Human societies are built on lies. You prove your loyalty by accepting and parroting the lies.

    (No, I do not think this is acceptable, but there does not seem to be anything I can do about it.)

    • Replies: @HA
    "You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh."

    That's a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is "I believe because it is absurd", not "I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question".

    Trying to equate that to what Saini is doing would make sense only if Catholics claimed that that a communion wafer is physically transformed into flesh, to the extent that carbs become proteins and a host sprayed with luminol glows in the dark. To the extent any medieval Catholic peasant believed that, it wasn't dogma.

  147. @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    I thought I read it somewhere, but maybe it’s just the classically Germanic-Jewish surname. I could be wrong.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Andrew Joyce says she’s Jewish, but he’s Jew Mad. Otherwise, I cannot find any source on this.

    Usually crimethinkers who try to maintain mainstream respectability would make public any fraction of a wokemon point they might have, but she has not, so I’d guess she’s 0% Jew, or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.

    She does have some vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips. But you could say that about 1/3 or more of NW Europeans.
  148. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    What a treat it would be to hear “This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter.” … Or, “This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. ”

    I’m dying…

  149. @hhsiii
    One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer):

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp_eI23YFZY

    Peter Tork (RIP) was the American Ringo.

    Micky Dolenz wasted a promising song title, “Randy Scouse Git”, but only one Monkee was a real songwriter, and it wasn’t him. Dolenz was the voice of Boyce and Hart, in the way Dionne Warwicke was for Bacharach and David. Except for “Valleri”. Why Davy Jones sang it instead I don’t know, but it might be tied to the fact that an exec asked them for a song with a girl’s name, and Boyce lied and said one was already done. (Don’t you hate it when your co-workers obligate you like that?)

    Mike Nesmith was the creative one. I nominate this for the band’s best original, and among their best all around:

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    A bit like Honey Pie. Or Winchester Cathedral.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jKc1OCJ7iXk
  150. @Paleo Liberal
    I played a few pickup b-ball games in the Far East, many years ago. Sometimes against local college students, other times against the local army draftees.

    In the US I was a bad player. I the Far East I was dominating in those games because (a) I was slightly over 6’ tall and (b) I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall. The former was genetic, the latter cultural.

    In the early days of the sport, b-ball was dominated by Jews, since it was a popular inner city game in the Jewish neighborhoods. Good HS players would get scholarships to summer camps in the Catskills to play against the rich Jewish kids. Having a good team was a big selling point for the summer camps. Later on, the camps would give scholarships to the better black kids. Wilt Chamberlain spent his summers in the Catskills. He lost the NCAA championship to a team of Jewish kids who spent their summers playing against Wilt.

    In those days, many of the top college teams were either in NYC or had a lot of NYC Jews. CCNY and NYU were power houses back then.

    In later years the sport became less popular among Jews and more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana as from the entire continent of Africa.

    I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall.

    Bob Uecker said the only way to deal with a wild pitch or passed ball from a knuckleballer was to let it roll to a stop.

    more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana

    Basketball has been a religion of sorts in rural Indiana for generations. Same for Kentucky, Utah, and a few other places. The geography of the old ABA, which was built on enthusiasm as much as on economics, reflected that.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    The pitcher Tommy John came from Indiana.
    He says his dream was to play in the NBA. At some point some coaches took him aside and told him he would never make the big time as a b-ball player, but he was an extremely talented pitcher. So in college he had to give up basketball and concentrate on his pitching.
  151. @International Jew

    Your programming would be great!
     
    It's what Trump would have done if he'd really lived up to the left's idea of him.

    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.

    I am a liberal. I like NPR. But NPR is as biased as Fox News. The difference being the taxpayers don’t pay for Fox.

    There have been truly great things on NPR. For example, I once heard a fantastic interview with Tommy John about modern day sports injuries. I learned a lot. OTOH, within the past hour or so the fellow being interviewed made a casual Trump-bashing comment that the interviewer just let slide.

    Over the years, I remember a few things that were so egregious that even I, a liberal, was shocked that the interviewer didn’t grill the person.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.
     
    I'm unsure if that's possible. I used to listen, for years, and NPR was always at the vanguard of any progressive agitation within the context of any mainstream channel. The last time that I tuned in, their commentary on the Michael Brown / George Zimmerman issues and then running up to the election was especially egregious.

    In the context of a nation that tries hard to regulate political money, I was continuously flabbergasted at how my tax money could be used to promote political propaganda to me that was specifically hostile to my social and political interests and that promoted those of my political and social rivals.

  152. @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    Termites, Carpenter Ants, and Wood Borers all feed on rotten wood. But to your point, the rot is the essential cause, not the capitalists.

  153. @Reg Cæsar

    I would fight for the rebound instead of sitting and watching where the ball would fall.
     
    Bob Uecker said the only way to deal with a wild pitch or passed ball from a knuckleballer was to let it roll to a stop.

    more popular among blacks and rural gentile whites. This cultural reason explains why there were as many great players from French Lick Indiana
     
    Basketball has been a religion of sorts in rural Indiana for generations. Same for Kentucky, Utah, and a few other places. The geography of the old ABA, which was built on enthusiasm as much as on economics, reflected that.

    The pitcher Tommy John came from Indiana.
    He says his dream was to play in the NBA. At some point some coaches took him aside and told him he would never make the big time as a b-ball player, but he was an extremely talented pitcher. So in college he had to give up basketball and concentrate on his pitching.

    • Replies: @FPD72
    Maybe Tommy should have tried to stick with basketball as well, joining the 13 players who played in both MLB and the NBA: Chuck Connors, Danny Ainge, Frank Baumholtz, Gene Conley, Dave DeBusschere, Johnny Gee, Dick Groat, Steve Hamilton, Mark Hendrickson, Cotton Nash, Ron Reed, Dick Ricketts and Howie Schultz. In addition to these 13, Bob Gibson played for both the St. Louis Cardinals and the Harlem Globetrotters. I think Ainge was the last one to pull this off; the need for specialization and year-round training today is probably too great of a hurtle to overcome. Plus, both sports have become financially lucrative enough that there is no monetary need.
  154. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    “Yesterday” & “Hey, Jude” were, for a time, all the rage –

    And highly overrated. Beatles songs are like U.S. presidents. The worst are ranked at the top, the best, or, more to the point, least destructive, at the bottom.

    The most iconic Beatle song is “Bad to Me”. On a tinny radio, it sounds like Paul wrote it for John’s voice. But in reality, John wrote it for Billy J Kramer’s.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    Nice but a bit too proto. I’d go with I Dont Want to Spoil the Party. Although I’d say Paul was the talent.
  155. Anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    Hazony is a flash in the pan: a product of well funded PR. He’s another anti- European Jewish Nationalist trying to reinvent the Neocon platform to retain power. He’ll fail, like they all do, because the nationalist renaissance demands substance and the primary goal of these guys is to divert away from that substance and toward Jewish interests (facilitate the ineffectiveness of the Right, direct support toward Jews and Israel, etc). All of these assholes need to disappear.

  156. Taleb: “I block/mute people when I have no more use for them, nothing to learn from their arguments: Jordan Peterson, Impostor Molyneux, Mountebank Charles Murray, RacePromoter @clairlemon
    Not Sailer, Cochran, etc.

    Emphasis added. Steve, I daresay that might be compliment.

  157. @Vinteuil
    The Beatles at their absolute peak:

    https://youtu.be/A_MjCqQoLLA

    Authenticity & quality?

    Greatness?

    I call your “Hey Jude” and I raise you Michael Nesmith’s “Different Drum”

  158. @hhsiii
    One of my favorites by the Monkees (Pleasant Valley Sunday was like Paperback Writer):

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp_eI23YFZY

    Understood. But fairly similar musically to Paperback Writer, which also takes a shallow dig at shallow culture. Same year. Sonically, PBW back more wallop. McCartney’s bass and Ringo’s drumming particularly. Ringo in that time was in his element (Rain, Paperback Writer and Baby You’re a Rich Man).

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    Meant as a reply to Peterike’s reply.
  159. @hhsiii
    Understood. But fairly similar musically to Paperback Writer, which also takes a shallow dig at shallow culture. Same year. Sonically, PBW back more wallop. McCartney’s bass and Ringo’s drumming particularly. Ringo in that time was in his element (Rain, Paperback Writer and Baby You’re a Rich Man).

    Meant as a reply to Peterike’s reply.

  160. @Reg Cæsar
    Peter Tork (RIP) was the American Ringo.

    Micky Dolenz wasted a promising song title, "Randy Scouse Git", but only one Monkee was a real songwriter, and it wasn't him. Dolenz was the voice of Boyce and Hart, in the way Dionne Warwicke was for Bacharach and David. Except for "Valleri". Why Davy Jones sang it instead I don't know, but it might be tied to the fact that an exec asked them for a song with a girl's name, and Boyce lied and said one was already done. (Don't you hate it when your co-workers obligate you like that?)

    Mike Nesmith was the creative one. I nominate this for the band's best original, and among their best all around:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JF8QU0ZTsss

    A bit like Honey Pie. Or Winchester Cathedral.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    My mom's favorite song of 1966. Never mind nostalgia for the Sixties, there was plenty of nostalgia in the Sixties.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sDyWhgWj7Pc

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZfKcYlefE

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GisCRxREDkY

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSlcNfThUA


    And, like "WC", new tunes that sounded old:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DK346Wcev7E

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlQEQ0BRImc
  161. @Reg Cæsar

    “Yesterday” & “Hey, Jude” were, for a time, all the rage –
     
    And highly overrated. Beatles songs are like U.S. presidents. The worst are ranked at the top, the best, or, more to the point, least destructive, at the bottom.

    The most iconic Beatle song is "Bad to Me". On a tinny radio, it sounds like Paul wrote it for John's voice. But in reality, John wrote it for Billy J Kramer's.

    Nice but a bit too proto. I’d go with I Dont Want to Spoil the Party. Although I’d say Paul was the talent.

  162. review of Angela Saini’s review in Nature of a book about race and sports.

    Wait. Did Mr. Sailer just review the review of the review? My head hurts….

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  163. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    We live in bizarro world.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream "conservatives" are quick to claim that Baltimore's problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    A person might hold pretty ridiculous religious beliefs, but be the soul of common sense and facing reality in her everyday life. These people willfully ignore observable reality. I wonder how many would be willing to take a walk one night in one of the less than salubrious neighborhoods in Baltimore. They twist themselves into a pretzel justifying to themselves and others why they wouldn't.

    This is my favorite ongoing conceit on Glenn Reynolds’ blog, coopted long ago by PJ Media. It’s gone down the same road as the Corner on NRO. That’s the reason I’ve combined all my former subscriptions and send them on to Steve once a year. He’s indispensable.

  164. @Reg Cæsar
    I'd rather have a Honduran and a pygmy than two Hondurans. They couldn't unite against me, without direction.

    The problem with the visa lottery was its not being twinned with a cap. Its proponents weren't forced to choose. They got two Hondurans and a pygmy.

    Who could send home for his clan.

    Please, sir! Please, I implore you: won’t someone think of the Honduran pygmies and the pygmy Hondurans?!

    Such narrow-mindedness….

  165. @International Jew

    Steve could be on TV
     
    I was thinking about that as I listened to an hour of nonstop propaganda on NPR in my car: first a sob story from the border, next a black prison inmate and his dindu-nuffin story, etc.

    And I thought, Why didn't Trump replace the head of NPR with someone on our team, who'd replace everyone else?

    What a treat it would be to hear "This is Morning Edition, with Ann Coulter. [sound effects] That screaming you hear is the sound of 4-year-old Maria Gonzalez begging her parents not to sell her to human traffickers..."

    Or, "This is Prairie Home Companion with John Derbyshire. Today Lars Jorgensen meets five armed Hmong poachers on his land."

    The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is what the British call a quango, so it’s not that simple. Anyway, George W. Bush of all people tried to do something like that; the Dems of course stymied the effort while destroying the life and reputation of the guy in charge of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Tomlinson

  166. HA says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote:

    The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood. Saini is just trying to find out who the true followers are.
    [snip]

    In other words, it’s a power play. It’s an ancient totalitarian move that Stalin used a lot. Americans don’t recognize it because we don’t have totalitarian traditions but any Chinese schoolchild would get it.
     
    Oh, I'd say pretty much all political systems and all religions do the same thing. You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh. You want to be a good Muslim? Pretend that Muhammad was not a mass murderer and child molester. You want to be a good American? Pretend that the USA has not chosen to get involved in more wars in the last seventy years than any other regime on the planet.

    And, similarly for a good socialist or good conservative or whatever.

    Human societies are built on lies. You prove your loyalty by accepting and parroting the lies.

    (No, I do not think this is acceptable, but there does not seem to be anything I can do about it.)

    “You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh.”

    That’s a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is “I believe because it is absurd”, not “I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question”.

    Trying to equate that to what Saini is doing would make sense only if Catholics claimed that that a communion wafer is physically transformed into flesh, to the extent that carbs become proteins and a host sprayed with luminol glows in the dark. To the extent any medieval Catholic peasant believed that, it wasn’t dogma.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:


    “[Dave]: You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh.”
     
    [HA]: That’s a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is “I believe because it is absurd”, not “I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question”.
     
    Well... you can try to make that distinction, but, in terms of the sociological point I was making, it is irrelevant.

    No one -- and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one -- claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism. It just is not ever a belief that someone somehow reaches just as a result of random thought and inquiry independent of commitment to membership in some religious denomination.

    In fact, that is a much clearer example of the "belief as a badge of group membership" phenomenon than race denial, climate-change hysteria, and many other current leftist obsessions.

    It's not insane to deny races exist -- some racial divisions are indeed more clinal than sharp. It is of course an error of logic to assume that because a distinction is gradual it therefore does not exist. But, it is possible to see how someone can make that error of logic for some reason other than proving his membership in some group.

    Similarly, for climate-change hysteria: maybe global warming will proves to be huge and catastrophic. It's just that right now there is no convincing scientific evidence for that proposition. But, some scientist might have higher confidence than warranted in that hypothesis for some reason other than proving he is politically correct.

    For both climate-change hysteria and race denial, what shows these to be badges of group membership for most believers is how they react when their beliefs are questioned. They treat the questioners not as honest but mistaken but as heretics who must be extirpated.

    And, of course, a Catholic who denies transubstantiation is (or at least was until recent decades) in the same boat: it's one thing for a Baptist or an atheist to deny transubstantiation, but a Catholic who did this was rejecting a symbol that showed his loyalty to the group.

    Yeah, the Catholics appeal to "faith" and the leftists to (pseudo-) science. That is intrinsic to the different contrasting belief systems.

    But, in both cases, beliefs are serving as badges of group identity.

    Which I find exceedingly strange, but which seems to be a part of almost all human societies.
  167. @martin2
    At the time. everyone in the UK wanted to think that The Monkees phenomenon was just typical Americans trying to copy us by manufacturing a Boy Band to rival the Beatles.

    The trouble was that The Monkees had some great songs that are every bit as memorable as those of the Beatles or any other Pop Group of that era. Their manager apparently made sure to employ only the best songwriters.

    The sixties of course was the Golden Age of Pop.

    The 70s were pretty darn good as well.

  168. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    It’s easy for someone of a later generation to mistake “Hey Jude” and “Yesterday” as being emblematic Beatles songs from the late Sixties that Boomers would listen to in their youth, but I clearly recall that those two conventional sounding violin and piano ballads, in particular, were popular with my parents’ generation which couldn’t relate at all to the rock revolution going on around them.

    The vast majority of the younger crowd was listening to other, more exciting music all around them, from the Airplane to the Dead, to Cream and all the rock that was just spilling forth. Beatles’ tunes that got airplay were numbers like “Back in the USSR”, “Revolution” or “Get Back”.

  169. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    Kids react to the Beatles:

    • LOL: Vinteuil
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    The Beatles suck and are boring. They're only relevant as an example of social engineering by media-savvy producers.

    Can't imagine somebody in their right mind would listen to them today willingly.
  170. @anonymous
    In Taleb's Incerto screed railing against IQ testing, he came up with this gem.

    "In the real world you interview people from their CV (not from some IQ number sent to you as in a thought experiment), and, once you have their CV, the 62 IQ fellow is naturally eliminated. "

    I would say that we'd all be happy to admit immigrants or confer citizenship based on their CV.

    I would say you should not presume what “we” would all be happy with. The place is full. It is overpopulated. I don’t give a tinker’s damn if a fellow is about to cure cancer – he can do it in his own country and Americans will gladly license the patents or otherwise pay the costs for his treatment. Hell, we may even invest in his laboratory. But he doesn’t need to be here for any of it.

    And I can attest many others agree.

    “We” would certainly not “all” be happy with your proposals. (If you only meant to refer to some smaller group you belong to, or if you are the King of Spain, you ought not have apended the term “all.”)

  171. @martin2
    At the time. everyone in the UK wanted to think that The Monkees phenomenon was just typical Americans trying to copy us by manufacturing a Boy Band to rival the Beatles.

    The trouble was that The Monkees had some great songs that are every bit as memorable as those of the Beatles or any other Pop Group of that era. Their manager apparently made sure to employ only the best songwriters.

    The sixties of course was the Golden Age of Pop.

    The Beach Boys, not the Monkees (ugh!), were America’s answer to the Beatles, and every bit as good if not better.

  172. Anonymous[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Forbes

    I thought PC had peaked 10yrs ago, but it’s now worse than ever.

    It’s hard to disagree — the question is why — ?
     
    There are always more virgin fields to plow, more bars to be raised--each battle won points to yet more territory to conquer. What could be more obvious.

    The PC/SJW brigades are on a mission to the future, they have no endgame in mind--except the acquisition of power--power over you.. Obama always had that in mind with his declaration about "the right side of history." It was the "right side" because he was declaring it so. It was your obligation to go along.

    And cucks never learn. They think their compromise(s) will end the game/debate/dispute. It won't and it doesn't.

    Most of this is the power politics as previous played out in the French and Russian revolutions.

    The PC/SJW brigades are on a mission to the future, they have no endgame in mind–except the acquisition of power–power over you..

    The endgame is the eradication of Whites and white ethnies. Couldn’t be more obvious.

  173. @Ganderson
    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.

    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.

    I saw him in the tight confines of the Cabooze, between Tepeetown and Little Mogadishu. (I know you know where that is.)

    That song wasn’t his, and wasn’t really about San Antonio, his hometown. This one is both:

    • Replies: @ganderson
    Spent many a night at the Cabooze, as well as the Triangle. I have a memory of a riot there (I was not in attendance ) when, during a performance by Buddy Miles, someone realized that it was not in fact, Buddy Miles, but an impostor. Apparently the fake Buddy Miles did not have a diamond in his front tooth. AHHH... memories.
  174. I am the walrus, I am the eggman. This is genius? The drunken hobo down on the corner mumbles more coherently than this tripe.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    It lacks the Æolian cadences of the early, innovative days.


    https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/beatles-blog/aeolian-cadence

    , @Uilleam Yr Alban
    The genius of the 19 year old, the truest expression of human wanting, fades into travesty as the years progress.

    It's less painful in sports, as a few embarrassments will destroy a star's marketability. (Tyson, Jordan, countless others.) Less so in music.
  175. @hhsiii
    A bit like Honey Pie. Or Winchester Cathedral.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jKc1OCJ7iXk

    My mom’s favorite song of 1966. Never mind nostalgia for the Sixties, there was plenty of nostalgia in the Sixties.

    And, like “WC”, new tunes that sounded old:

  176. @Ozymandias
    I am the walrus, I am the eggman. This is genius? The drunken hobo down on the corner mumbles more coherently than this tripe.

    It lacks the Æolian cadences of the early, innovative days.

    https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/beatles-blog/aeolian-cadence

  177. @Ozymandias
    I am the walrus, I am the eggman. This is genius? The drunken hobo down on the corner mumbles more coherently than this tripe.

    The genius of the 19 year old, the truest expression of human wanting, fades into travesty as the years progress.

    It’s less painful in sports, as a few embarrassments will destroy a star’s marketability. (Tyson, Jordan, countless others.) Less so in music.

  178. @G. Poulin
    His mom saved up all the royalties from the Liquid Paper patents and bequeathed them to Mike in her will. It amounted to around 25 million dollars, enough to keep a Monkee in bananas for the rest of his life. Mike still plays music, not because he has to but because he likes it.

    That was pretty nice of her, considering that he had told Hit Parader magazine that he didn’t like her or Peter Tork.

  179. @Anonymous

    (“Hazony” is obvious Hungarian BTW.)
     
    What do you mean by this?

    Hazony is facilitating an interesting conversation, or at least contributing to it. People should engage with his arguments rather than reject him and call him bad names.

    I was trying to show off my familiarity with things Hungarian (which I like, BTW) and instead made a fool of myself. Commenters here have informed us that the name Hazony is actually Hebrew. It just looks Hungarian to me.

  180. @TelfoedJohn
    Yes, and it's the same with IQ. Lebanon has the same IQ as Zimbabwe.

    Really?

  181. @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    It’s her married surname. I’ve tried to find her original name and failed. She is from Adelaide, which is not a Jewish stronghold, and looks just like any other attractive Middle class Australian woman.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It’s her married surname.

    Is her husband Jewish?
  182. @Reg Cæsar
    I'd rather have a Honduran and a pygmy than two Hondurans. They couldn't unite against me, without direction.

    The problem with the visa lottery was its not being twinned with a cap. Its proponents weren't forced to choose. They got two Hondurans and a pygmy.

    Who could send home for his clan.

    The very idea of a visa lottery is bizarre and evil. Does anyone but the USA do this?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The very idea of a visa lottery is bizarre and evil.
     
    Yes, but it will exist within a context. In the present, it does no good. Attached to a general cap, though, it would ameliorate one of the worst aspects of the present situation-- too many people from each of the top countries and cultures.

    Chemotherapy is also bizarre and evil-- until you have cancer. Were a cap on immigration in place, but with no sources favored as in 1921, then a diversity provision, lottery or otherwise, would dilute the immigrant stream.

    If you're not going to be a majority, at least be a plurality. Their diversity will be your strength. You can still divide and conquer, or at least survive.

    The Cincinnati and Twin Cities metro areas are about equally nonwhite. But all the nonwhites in Cincinnati are black. Thus, you get riots. This doesn't happen in Minnesota because the nonwhite population is split four or five ways.

  183. @HA
    "You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh."

    That's a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is "I believe because it is absurd", not "I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question".

    Trying to equate that to what Saini is doing would make sense only if Catholics claimed that that a communion wafer is physically transformed into flesh, to the extent that carbs become proteins and a host sprayed with luminol glows in the dark. To the extent any medieval Catholic peasant believed that, it wasn't dogma.

    HA wrote to me:

    “[Dave]: You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh.”

    [HA]: That’s a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is “I believe because it is absurd”, not “I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question”.

    Well… you can try to make that distinction, but, in terms of the sociological point I was making, it is irrelevant.

    No one — and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one — claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism. It just is not ever a belief that someone somehow reaches just as a result of random thought and inquiry independent of commitment to membership in some religious denomination.

    In fact, that is a much clearer example of the “belief as a badge of group membership” phenomenon than race denial, climate-change hysteria, and many other current leftist obsessions.

    It’s not insane to deny races exist — some racial divisions are indeed more clinal than sharp. It is of course an error of logic to assume that because a distinction is gradual it therefore does not exist. But, it is possible to see how someone can make that error of logic for some reason other than proving his membership in some group.

    Similarly, for climate-change hysteria: maybe global warming will proves to be huge and catastrophic. It’s just that right now there is no convincing scientific evidence for that proposition. But, some scientist might have higher confidence than warranted in that hypothesis for some reason other than proving he is politically correct.

    For both climate-change hysteria and race denial, what shows these to be badges of group membership for most believers is how they react when their beliefs are questioned. They treat the questioners not as honest but mistaken but as heretics who must be extirpated.

    And, of course, a Catholic who denies transubstantiation is (or at least was until recent decades) in the same boat: it’s one thing for a Baptist or an atheist to deny transubstantiation, but a Catholic who did this was rejecting a symbol that showed his loyalty to the group.

    Yeah, the Catholics appeal to “faith” and the leftists to (pseudo-) science. That is intrinsic to the different contrasting belief systems.

    But, in both cases, beliefs are serving as badges of group identity.

    Which I find exceedingly strange, but which seems to be a part of almost all human societies.

    • Replies: @HA
    No one — and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one — claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism.

    And that's the precisely the key difference in admitting -- even to themselves -- that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don't expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation -- in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether. The fact that you can't seem to admit this, or wish to pretend it's immaterial, tells me you're the one in this case who wants us all to assert that a deer is a horse. I'm not buying it.

  184. @Hypnotoad666

    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new “National Conservatism” circus?
     
    It basically seems like Hazony is just trying to get out in front of a new "respectable" Conservatism by rebranding it as: "New and Improved Formula -- Now with 20% More Populism!"

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

    His main objective is probably to promote pro-Israel policy from the right. But if he helps to mainstream nationalism in the process it may do some good.

    I wouldn’t accept that gift. It will more likely serve to divert any impulse or discussion of nationalism into Rah Rah Israel, Hazony media tour, Hazony editorial, Hazony speaks out against anti-semitism, etc.

  185. @Reg Cæsar

    There are zero white basketball players who have the proportions of the late Manute Bol. I once passed him on the street in NY and his belt buckle was at my eye level
     
    Bol finished his US career with the Florida Beach Dogs, not exactly the apex of hoops. Put him next to another Bol, Todd, the creator of Little Free Libraries. It will have to be caskets, though; both men are gone.

    Perhaps we can persuade Bol Bol, Manute's son, to devote a Little Free Library to his father's memory-- at his eye level. Make sure the steps are safe.


    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you're introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?


    Baseball, cricket, soccer, ice and field hockey, and others appear at first glance to be populated mostly by normal people.

    It would be interesting to see a basketball league with a height limit. The sport is popular in Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

    There is something fundamentally wrong with a sport that rewards such extremities to the detriment of the middle of the curve. If you’re introduced to a sport relatively late yet rise to the top mostly on your dimensions, what does that say?

    Basketball is an easy, dumb sport in many ways. Apart from tallness being a deciding factor(*), don’t forget that what decides your team’s fate in the NBA is getting two good guys, no more. Makes life easier for the ‘analysts’. Scoring is on the pinball level while spectators get their mood pumped up by cheerleaders waggling their bits in the breaks, along with some plain drunkenness. And when I see a clip from a game I usually wonder what is the median IQ on the court.

    (*) But not the only one. International games show that some European teams (like Spain and Croatia) actually are larger and more robust than the US team, though the US tends to win anyway.

  186. @jim jones
    Kids react to the Beatles:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M9US-cXJMo

    The Beatles suck and are boring. They’re only relevant as an example of social engineering by media-savvy producers.

    Can’t imagine somebody in their right mind would listen to them today willingly.

    • Troll: jim jones
  187. @Kronos
    I recall Taleb explaining in his book "Skin in the Game" that neuroscience is mainly bullshit. That its mathematically impossible to map/predict gene and neuron combos (and he didn't say it but but that subsequently includes IQ.) That the hopes of Steve Hsu and Richard Haier to discover IQ genes/alleles is a fools game.

    I remember trying to understand Taleb's arguments on IQ during the 2018 Taleb-Sailer "Battle of the Bands" debate, but I'm not sufficiently quantitatively literate to fully grasp it. (*crying noises in background* sniff, "I'm a failure!")

    https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39


    Linda S. Gottfredson made some great points on some of the weaknesses of IQ data, like its not ratio based but interval. Also, two people may possess the same IQ score but possess very different gene architectures to match/create that score.

    https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2009fallacies.pdf


    Even Arthur Jensen wanted to switch from psychometrics to chronometrics.

    https://www.amazon.com/Clocking-Mind-Chronometry-Individual-Differences/dp/0080449395/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1564431525&refinements=p_27%3AArthur+R.+Jensen&s=books&sr=1-3&text=Arthur+R.+Jensen


    Would any of these changes soothe the rage which is Taleb?

    Would any of these changes soothe the rage which is Taleb?

    Well … No.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Would you care to elaborate? Your in a safe space Pericles, Taleb isn’t going send his goon “Fat Tony” over to this chat room and break your kneecaps.
  188. @International Jew

    As Darymple said, remaining silent also humiliates you
     
    That's what "diversity training" is about. You can't dodge it anymore if you work in government, education or large corporations.

    Maybe we’ll also get to know about calling a deer a horse sooner than we’d like.
     
    We're already there; who dares to "misgender" a tranny?

    Point man make woman.

  189. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    We live in bizarro world.

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream "conservatives" are quick to claim that Baltimore's problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    A person might hold pretty ridiculous religious beliefs, but be the soul of common sense and facing reality in her everyday life. These people willfully ignore observable reality. I wonder how many would be willing to take a walk one night in one of the less than salubrious neighborhoods in Baltimore. They twist themselves into a pretzel justifying to themselves and others why they wouldn't.

    Ris_Eruwaedhiel wrote:

    Right now, with Baltimore in the news, mainstream “conservatives” are quick to claim that Baltimore’s problem is the population makes the mistake of voting for the Democrats. If they voted Republican, Baltimore would be a great place to live and work. Yeah, right.

    When I was a young kid in the late ’50s/early ’60s, black communities were certainly not utopias, and not nearly as pleasant as white communities.

    But they were not the hellholes the black ghettos are today.

    They can be and should be better.

    Yeah, the GOP is not the savior of black folks: the GOP is almost as infected with progressivism as the Dens.

    But if the culture as a whole returned to endorsing, encouraging, and, when necessary, enforcing bourgeois values, the life of everyone, but most especially the white working class and the black underclass, would be much, much better.

    We know what culture and values work best in a modern industrial society: the much-derided Victorian values. But no one has the guts to push this point publicly.

  190. @Vinteuil

    ...the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package – authenticity AND quality.
     
    The Beatles were talented singers/writers of popular songs - and the popular song is an ancient & honorable tradition. But let us not dignify them too much. "Yesterday" & "Hey, Jude" were, for a time, all the rage - but, for today's youth, they're about as relevant as Stephen Foster's "Camptown Races" or "Old Folks at Home." I don't see any of their stuff returning to favor in the foreseeable future - or, for that matter, deserving to do so. In the end, they were a fashionable & very commercially successful 60's pop group.

    The phrase "true greats" should be reserved for sterner stuff.

    For that period, don’t sleep on the insidious ear worms of ABBA.

  191. @MEH 0910
    Angela Saini writing in Scientific American:
    https://twitter.com/sciam/status/1155825357448187904

    In Superior: The Return of Race Science, I interview researchers at the cutting edge of research into human difference to journalistically expose the dangerous history of scientific racism. It is ground that has been trodden by respected scholars in the past, including evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould, historian Evelynn Hammonds and anthropologist Jonathan Marks, as well as journalists such as Amy Harmon at the New York Times. Despite all our efforts, sometimes it feels as though we are no further along.

    If anything, the public debate around race and science has sunk into the mud. To state even the undeniable fact that we are one human species today means falling afoul of a cabal of conspiracy theorists. The “race realists,” as they call themselves online, join the growing ranks of climate change deniers, anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers in insisting that science is under the yoke of some grand master plan designed to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. In their case, a left-wing plot to promote racial equality when, as far as they’re concerned, racial equality is impossible for biological reasons.
     

    Lol, shouldn’t it by now be Pseudo-Scientific American.

  192. @Pericles

    Would any of these changes soothe the rage which is Taleb?

     

    Well ... No.

    Would you care to elaborate? Your in a safe space Pericles, Taleb isn’t going send his goon “Fat Tony” over to this chat room and break your kneecaps.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Lol, if we put it on video and upload to World Star, I'd be willing to impromptu wrestle Taleb by the lectern. Make sure you lift before we go, NNT!

    But since you ask for clarification, Kronos, it seems with Taleb to be less a matter of facts and much more a matter of belonging to a group. So I'm betting on a rapid, wholesale rejection of your proposals.
  193. @Anonymous

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood.
     
    How does this story map at all onto the situation? Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch's lie? And where is the "reasonable people might differ" similarity?

    Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch’s lie? And where is the “reasonable people might differ” similarity?

    The horse – deer story is typical of declining Empires. In such Empires, the political establishment is as yet unassailable, but money comes from politics, nothing else, the bureaucracies handle almost all the real work, and the political elite has noticed that holding office is everything. Politics within the court overrules reality outside the court almost entirely[1]. Nobody can be trusted to do more than plot for advancement and toe the political line.
    When that happens, the chief danger to an Emperor is civil war with a member of the political class, or possibly an assassination.
    Given that “declining empire” scenario, the Emperor quite often tries to permit only terrified cowards to hold top offices. The reasoning is that terrified cowards won’t contest the Emperor’s rule.
    Of course, eventually the resulting misgovernment fails, but that’s eventually.

    Examples:
    Luttwak wrote a book on Roman Grand Strategy, and there is a Youtube video [2] that summarizes it. The summary includes actions of late Roman Empire that are said to illustrate the above situation in that the Roman Emperor kept significant armed forces near him rather than out near the frontiers. The idea was to cut down on revolts by frontier troop commanders sick of an incompetent central rule. The assertion’s fidelity to real Roman policy is questionable, but it illustrates the sorts of things an Emperor typically does in a declining society.
    During the Revolutions of 1848 surviving regimes also used their military as a bodyguard: moved away from urban mobs to rural areas protected by their militaries, and consequently survived (as a governing group) for another 3 generations, until 1914.

    Summary:
    Government ” of the people, by the people, and for the people” is highly atypical of governments, and tends to decay to a self serving government that disappears into its own political reality. If you look at it the right way, you can see this in most industrialized countries right now. Nobody knows how to govern an industrialized country – Nietzsche was right about that.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] which is why we call it “political reality”: politics that replaces reality in the governing class.
    2] “Defensive Strategies of the Roman Empire”.

  194. @John Mansfield
    Have Taleb and Cochran ever taken verbal shots at each other? Or do they prefer targets that aren't up to returning in kind with the level of venom that they each relish dishing out?

    Cochran had a comment on Taleb’s IQ clucking:
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2019/01/04/taleb/

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Clucking, or cucking?
  195. @Buzz Mohawk
    Can we please just ignore Yoram Hazony and his brand new "National Conservatism" circus? ("Hazony" is obvious Hungarian BTW.) He is like The Monkees, a make believe band that was constructed to be like the Beatles and attract an audience.

    It's a neat little trick that certain people are good at and have been perpetrating for a long time.

    The Monkees became somewhat popular. Let's not let Úr Hazony Yoram become the same. If we do, we will be facilitating the co-opting of our political beliefs and allowing ourselves to be defanged.

    1. He may fail, and be of no importance.

    2. He may succeed to some degree, and be an important voice in whatever direction the GOP takes after Trump.
    2a. ‘National conservatism’ may fail to catch the interest of the base (due to its obsession with Israel) and be replaced by something else.
    2a1. This could be a collapse back to free-market fundamentalism, and the GOP could be back as a minority party for a few decades, with increased immigration.
    2a2. This could be a genuine white nationalism…
    2a2a. …which brings back the 1950s.
    2a2b. …which leaves the GOP as a minority party for 20 years while the Dems flood the country with immigrants.

    2b. ‘National conservatism’ may catch the interest of the base and affect policy.
    2b1. If it affects policy, we may get the same ‘Israel first’ crap with a sprinkling of nationalism and a mild decrease in immigration levels, leading to a slight slowing of demographic replacement.
    2b2. If it affects policy, we may get the same ‘Israel first’ crap with an actual decrease in immigration levels, leading to a considerable slowing of demographic replacement.

    Your guess is as good as mine.

  196. @pirelli
    Douthat’s latest column in the NYT offers another hint that he’s a secret Sailer fan:

    “When conservatives talk about liberal media bias, for instance, their complaint isn’t necessarily that mainstream outlets fail to report stories that might confirm a conservative worldview. Rather, it’s that they report on them in ways that make them sound dry and dull or just random and unrepresentative, without ever acknowledging their wider interest or significance.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/opinion/sunday/the-stories-that-divide-us.html

    Other than Steve, I honestly can’t think of any conservatives pointing out that liberals often present conservative worldview-affirming stories in a “dry and dull” fashion (“this is a very complicated and boring story so don’t pay too much attention to it”). I always saw it as an original observation by Steve.

    He’s said some pretty iStevey things on occasion. Heck, David Brooks quoted Steve directly on natalism before they went after him.

    Honestly, I’m here to read what all the right-wing pundits are going to say two weeks before they say it. 200 years later Steve will be seen as an Avicenna-like figure by Chinese historians piecing together the decline of the West. “See, if they’d listened to him they wouldn’t be working as houseboys for us. Johnny, get my chopsticks!”

  197. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    I'm not sure if Hazony's first tweet was supportive, or merely cryptic commentary to his Israeli contemporaries (what the ADL and NYT call "dog whistling," when Goyim cryptically comment). Hazony stated:

    Ignore the rhetoric and follow the argument. Academic papers on population genetics are fueling the rise of a political theory based on racial determinism. Academic freedom isn’t at all the only pressing issue here.
     
    I took this to mean ignore the obvious propagandist Taleb and listen to the erudite Mischling Goddess Lehmann. I took the entire quote to mean, "We have now arrived at the point where articulate and good faith commentators, like Lehmann, are willing to state the obvious: that race is, at least in part, a determinant of sociological realities. As such, people like Lehmann and her writers are openly considering how their own polities should react to the obvious reality of racial differences."

    The Ashkenazi are in their best position, ever, to have the entire world openly acknowledge that they're really smart and have certain other characteristics that lead to the acquisition of wealth and power. There is no unifying ethnic group in any of the major diaspora countries to institute another anti-Jewish genocide (see diversity in U.S., E.U., the other Five Eyes etc.). They also have a very nice Mediterranean territory of vast ethno-religious significance on which they have a couple hundred ballistic payloads, and probably at least a few inter-continental delivery devices for those payloads.

    Perhaps Hazony was gingerly suggesting to his coethnics that Jews stop being the chief propagandists of the Marx -> Boaz -> Gould -> Lewontin -> Turkheimer Endless Stream of Lies and Bullshit. It's making everybody look bad.

    I suspect it’s more about the GOP realizing they have to go nationalist but still being afraid of looking like Nazis, and in comes Hazony who’s apparently a fan of Anglo-American political thought according to some of the commenters here, and realizes he’s the man of the hour.

    It could be a nice way to launder nationalism through Zionism–see, we’ll leave you guys your mansions on Park Avenue, just let us slow immigration. (Seems totally reasonable to me, but then I’m not at the Harvard Hillel.)

    I have no clue if it’s going to work.

  198. @Jack D
    I guess you didn't notice that Saini (who is the prime conspirator) is Indian and Taleb is a Christian Arab. Look, a Jew!

    They don’t call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing, you know. Just switch beef for pork and you’re halfway there.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    They don’t call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing
     
    They don't call them that at ALL. That makes no sense. In the subcontinent, Hindus are the majority race. Now there have been times and places (e.g. colonial E. Africa) where overseas Indians acted as a market dominant minority and you could have justly said "Indians are the Jews of East Africa". But, market dominant minorities (not just Jews) breed resentment among lower IQ populations everywhere and the Indians of E. Africa are mostly gone - expelled.

    Indian intelligence seems to be more like Jewish intelligence than Chinese intelligence in that it is more evenly divided between the verbal and mathematical sphere, but it's really hard to compare the tiny # of Jews to the billions of Indians or Chinese in their home countries - quantity has its own quality.
  199. @Kronos
    Would you care to elaborate? Your in a safe space Pericles, Taleb isn’t going send his goon “Fat Tony” over to this chat room and break your kneecaps.

    Lol, if we put it on video and upload to World Star, I’d be willing to impromptu wrestle Taleb by the lectern. Make sure you lift before we go, NNT!

    But since you ask for clarification, Kronos, it seems with Taleb to be less a matter of facts and much more a matter of belonging to a group. So I’m betting on a rapid, wholesale rejection of your proposals.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Fair enough.
  200. @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    Looks like that and uncommonly rational…of course she’s taken. Hah!

    I’ve been reading Quillette religiously, and haven’t seen anything that would upset the Tribe. Though she may just figure it’s a smart way to sneak around the ‘Nazi’ epithet.

  201. HA says:
    @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:


    “[Dave]: You want to be a good Catholic? Then pretend the the wine and the wafer really are blood and flesh.”
     
    [HA]: That’s a ridiculous comparison. Catholics have the honesty to admit that the transformation in question is an article of faith, not science, and that the particulars of how it takes place are ultimately a mystery beyond comprehension. The relevant aphorism is “I believe because it is absurd”, not “I am certain of this because the science on the matter is settled, and beyond question”.
     
    Well... you can try to make that distinction, but, in terms of the sociological point I was making, it is irrelevant.

    No one -- and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one -- claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism. It just is not ever a belief that someone somehow reaches just as a result of random thought and inquiry independent of commitment to membership in some religious denomination.

    In fact, that is a much clearer example of the "belief as a badge of group membership" phenomenon than race denial, climate-change hysteria, and many other current leftist obsessions.

    It's not insane to deny races exist -- some racial divisions are indeed more clinal than sharp. It is of course an error of logic to assume that because a distinction is gradual it therefore does not exist. But, it is possible to see how someone can make that error of logic for some reason other than proving his membership in some group.

    Similarly, for climate-change hysteria: maybe global warming will proves to be huge and catastrophic. It's just that right now there is no convincing scientific evidence for that proposition. But, some scientist might have higher confidence than warranted in that hypothesis for some reason other than proving he is politically correct.

    For both climate-change hysteria and race denial, what shows these to be badges of group membership for most believers is how they react when their beliefs are questioned. They treat the questioners not as honest but mistaken but as heretics who must be extirpated.

    And, of course, a Catholic who denies transubstantiation is (or at least was until recent decades) in the same boat: it's one thing for a Baptist or an atheist to deny transubstantiation, but a Catholic who did this was rejecting a symbol that showed his loyalty to the group.

    Yeah, the Catholics appeal to "faith" and the leftists to (pseudo-) science. That is intrinsic to the different contrasting belief systems.

    But, in both cases, beliefs are serving as badges of group identity.

    Which I find exceedingly strange, but which seems to be a part of almost all human societies.

    No one — and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one — claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism.

    And that’s the precisely the key difference in admitting — even to themselves — that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don’t expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation — in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether. The fact that you can’t seem to admit this, or wish to pretend it’s immaterial, tells me you’re the one in this case who wants us all to assert that a deer is a horse. I’m not buying it.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    And that’s the precisely the key difference in admitting — even to themselves — that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don’t expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation — in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether.
     
    Hmmm... and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Roman Catholicism (and Christianity in general) has collapsed as an organization that has any real social power (I am sympathetic to those who claim that in some sense Christianity is spiritually stronger now that it has lost secular power, but, still, it has lost secular power).

    Leftism is the dominant faith of our age, and Leftists now behave as Christians behaved when Christianity was socially dominant.

    It's as simple as that.

    Yeah, yeah, Leftists pretend, quite unconvincingly, to be "scientific." just as early Christians tried to appropriate half-understood concepts from neo-Platonism. And, for that matter, starting in the High Middle Ages, Roman Catholics claimed, also quite unconvincingly, that the basic truth of Christianity could be apprehended via Aristotelian reason. Aquinas actually tried to "explain" transubstantiation via the whole substance/accident silliness: I like to think Aristotle would have gotten a big laugh out of this.

    Of course, every means of using ideas as badges of group identity is different: that is the whole point of doing it --you need a unique form of silliness to prove your loyalty to your group. The silliness can be based on "faith" or "science" or the ineluctable historical laws of dialectical materialism or racial essentialism or the well-established "fact" of reincarnation or a million other possible forms of dogmatic silliness.

    Of course these details matter to the members of the group who are using the ideas as a badge of group identity.

    Again, that is the whole point.

    But from the viewpoint of a perceptive outsider, it is all the same: a willingness to lie to prove your loyalty to the group.
  202. @Lot
    “co-opt the burgeoning nationalism”

    What does this actually mean, specifically?

    Is there any anti-Israel nationalism out there in the USA worth co-opting? Such as?

    Obviously considering that Hazony appeared out of nowhere with a “nationalism” conference that featured primarily neocons telling us that nationalism is supporting war with Iran and special pleading regarding why Israel shouldn’t take in a million refugees but Europe and the US should.

  203. Anonymous[418] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cowboy shaw
    It's her married surname. I've tried to find her original name and failed. She is from Adelaide, which is not a Jewish stronghold, and looks just like any other attractive Middle class Australian woman.

    It’s her married surname.

    Is her husband Jewish?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Yes, it turns out that Claire herself is a full blooded Aryan, but is she guilty of Rassenschande?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out - do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?
  204. Anon[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.

    I am a liberal. I like NPR. But NPR is as biased as Fox News. The difference being the taxpayers don’t pay for Fox.

    There have been truly great things on NPR. For example, I once heard a fantastic interview with Tommy John about modern day sports injuries. I learned a lot. OTOH, within the past hour or so the fellow being interviewed made a casual Trump-bashing comment that the interviewer just let slide.

    Over the years, I remember a few things that were so egregious that even I, a liberal, was shocked that the interviewer didn’t grill the person.

    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.

    I’m unsure if that’s possible. I used to listen, for years, and NPR was always at the vanguard of any progressive agitation within the context of any mainstream channel. The last time that I tuned in, their commentary on the Michael Brown / George Zimmerman issues and then running up to the election was especially egregious.

    In the context of a nation that tries hard to regulate political money, I was continuously flabbergasted at how my tax money could be used to promote political propaganda to me that was specifically hostile to my social and political interests and that promoted those of my political and social rivals.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I was gobsmacked today.

    NPR was doing a show about immigration issues.
    They actually had a much fairer collection of ideas. Some conservatives there to say the issue was with the massive rush of asylum seekers who were mostly fraudulent.

    Remember, this is NPR.

    The callers seemed sympathetic to that view as well.

    Speaking as a liberal Democrat, I am very worried.
    Either the extreme views of many Democrats will get Trump re-elected, or else we will have a Democratic president with dangerously extremist views on immigration. I don’t like either option.
  205. @Anonymous

    In such an environment, isn’t it better to have someone like Hazony who can show his face in public and whom you can publicly support than having no one except Leftists in the public sphere? Isn’t having Hazony better than nothing? Maybe Hazony can act as a “gateway drug” just as listening to the Monkees may have led some fans to more sophisticated music in the long run.
     
    JackD is right.

    What Hazony is doing is just neoconservatism 2.0. Early neocons were fairly tough talking about racial issues. Did that lead to anything good?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    What Hazony is doing is just neoconservatism 2.0. Early neocons were fairly tough talking about racial issues. Did that lead to anything good?
     
    Don't be so passive. Hazony has created a forum for discussion, and it isn't certain where things will go. It's an opportunity. Engage with it and with him.
  206. @Anon

    Instead IIRC he cut funding for NPR, which probably drove it further to the extreme.
     
    I'm unsure if that's possible. I used to listen, for years, and NPR was always at the vanguard of any progressive agitation within the context of any mainstream channel. The last time that I tuned in, their commentary on the Michael Brown / George Zimmerman issues and then running up to the election was especially egregious.

    In the context of a nation that tries hard to regulate political money, I was continuously flabbergasted at how my tax money could be used to promote political propaganda to me that was specifically hostile to my social and political interests and that promoted those of my political and social rivals.

    I was gobsmacked today.

    NPR was doing a show about immigration issues.
    They actually had a much fairer collection of ideas. Some conservatives there to say the issue was with the massive rush of asylum seekers who were mostly fraudulent.

    Remember, this is NPR.

    The callers seemed sympathetic to that view as well.

    Speaking as a liberal Democrat, I am very worried.
    Either the extreme views of many Democrats will get Trump re-elected, or else we will have a Democratic president with dangerously extremist views on immigration. I don’t like either option.

  207. @Craken
    Cochran had a comment on Taleb's IQ clucking:
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2019/01/04/taleb/

    Clucking, or cucking?

  208. @BengaliCanadianDude
    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-phoenicians-dna/in-lebanon-dna-may-yet-heal-rifts-idUSL0559096520070910

    https://stepfeed.com/dna-tests-prove-lebanese-are-direct-descendants-of-ancient-phoenicians-8777

    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians

    But the Moslems are inbred, and the Christians are not.

    Though the two groups seem to have influenced each other, and the gap is not as wide in this region as it is in general.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude

    But the Moslems are inbred
     
    Moreso than the Christians in that region? 100%. But to what extent?


    Like you said, the gap is probably minimal, and quite trivial
  209. @Reg Cæsar

    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians
     
    But the Moslems are inbred, and the Christians are not.

    Though the two groups seem to have influenced each other, and the gap is not as wide in this region as it is in general.

    But the Moslems are inbred

    Moreso than the Christians in that region? 100%. But to what extent?

    Like you said, the gap is probably minimal, and quite trivial

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Steve sent me to one site with "Consanguinity" in its name. There was one study that showed that among Palestinians, 16% of Christian marriages and 29% of Moslem ones were consanguine. Figure in, too, that the Christian mating pool is much smaller.

    This was the only direct Christian/Islamic comparison I could find. But 16% was on the high end of one group, and 29% on the low end for the other.

    The Maronites are in communion with Rome, but wouldn't be held to that church's degree-of-relation regulations any more than to priestly celibacy. They probably have their own set of rules, though.

    Protestants were less picky about this, but still had limits Second-cousin marriages weren't rare in the American colonies, but first-person ones certainly were.
  210. @Anonymous
    It’s her married surname.

    Is her husband Jewish?

    Yes, it turns out that Claire herself is a full blooded Aryan, but is she guilty of Rassenschande?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out – do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out – do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?
     
    You are projecting, Jack.

    But more importantly, what is it that Jews want? What motivates people to be Jewish, to separate themselves from others? What is the purpose?

    , @Lot
    “do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?”

    http://www.tausend-rosen.at/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/eisi_0_0.png?itok=pl0UjNAe
    , @Peterike
    “Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization.”

    Yes, and have you noticed lately they are reveling in it? Maybe you need a Twitter account.

    “Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names”

    For some reason, right now the name “Robert Maxwell” comes to mind. Would you like a hundred more? I hear Ralph Lauren keeps a list.
  211. @Pericles
    Lol, if we put it on video and upload to World Star, I'd be willing to impromptu wrestle Taleb by the lectern. Make sure you lift before we go, NNT!

    But since you ask for clarification, Kronos, it seems with Taleb to be less a matter of facts and much more a matter of belonging to a group. So I'm betting on a rapid, wholesale rejection of your proposals.

    Fair enough.

  212. @Reg Cæsar

    Doug Sahm- tremendously underrated. Love his version of “Is Anybody Going to San Antone”.

     

    I saw him in the tight confines of the Cabooze, between Tepeetown and Little Mogadishu. (I know you know where that is.)

    That song wasn't his, and wasn't really about San Antonio, his hometown. This one is both:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCzi8-H08Jw

    Spent many a night at the Cabooze, as well as the Triangle. I have a memory of a riot there (I was not in attendance ) when, during a performance by Buddy Miles, someone realized that it was not in fact, Buddy Miles, but an impostor. Apparently the fake Buddy Miles did not have a diamond in his front tooth. AHHH… memories.

  213. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Yes, it turns out that Claire herself is a full blooded Aryan, but is she guilty of Rassenschande?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out - do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out – do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?

    You are projecting, Jack.

    But more importantly, what is it that Jews want? What motivates people to be Jewish, to separate themselves from others? What is the purpose?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

    As for separation, when Jews wish to separate themselves, anti-Semites tell them to assimilate and when they try to assimilate, anti-Semites try to pick them out of the crowd. It's really a no-win proposition.
    , @J.Ross
    It is a matter of some concerned note that many people born Jewish don't want to be Jewish.
  214. @Buzz Mohawk
    "Hey Jude" and "Let It Be" get far too much attention and praise now whenever people refer to how great that band was. Please. The greatness of the Beatles, whatever is was, was in all the music they made, for many years. Those two songs are, to me at least, mostly Paul McCartney features released in the late, depressed years and not even particularly representative of the band's oeuvre.

    My two cents worth: The Beatles’s Rubber Soul and Revolver are two of the greatest rock and roll albums ever- much of the rest of their oeuvre is somewhat dated- much quality but much Moody Blues/Pink Floyd style pretentiousness.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    The first two albums I owned were The Beatles' Revolver and The Monkees' Headquarters. I agree with you about Rubber Soul and Revolver, and I'm not anti-Monkees.

    I like real Roquefort cheese from the Combalou caves of Roquefort-sur-Soulzon, and I enjoy eating Cheetos out of the bag and licking the orange powder off my fingers.

  215. @Ragno
    They don't call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing, you know. Just switch beef for pork and you're halfway there.

    They don’t call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing

    They don’t call them that at ALL. That makes no sense. In the subcontinent, Hindus are the majority race. Now there have been times and places (e.g. colonial E. Africa) where overseas Indians acted as a market dominant minority and you could have justly said “Indians are the Jews of East Africa”. But, market dominant minorities (not just Jews) breed resentment among lower IQ populations everywhere and the Indians of E. Africa are mostly gone – expelled.

    Indian intelligence seems to be more like Jewish intelligence than Chinese intelligence in that it is more evenly divided between the verbal and mathematical sphere, but it’s really hard to compare the tiny # of Jews to the billions of Indians or Chinese in their home countries – quantity has its own quality.

    • Replies: @Ragno
    It has nothing to do with percentage of population, and everything to do with strategy and tactics. Obsequious "friendliness" masking a deep-seated contempt is only one outward manifestation.

    I refer you to Tobias Langdon's article on Boris Johnson's recent ascent to PM [https://www.unz.com/article/a-government-of-grovelling-goys] for further illumination.
  216. Lot says:
    @Uilleam Yr Alban
    I thought I read it somewhere, but maybe it’s just the classically Germanic-Jewish surname. I could be wrong.

    Andrew Joyce says she’s Jewish, but he’s Jew Mad. Otherwise, I cannot find any source on this.

    Usually crimethinkers who try to maintain mainstream respectability would make public any fraction of a wokemon point they might have, but she has not, so I’d guess she’s 0% Jew, or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.

    She does have some vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips. But you could say that about 1/3 or more of NW Europeans.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.
     
    Does that describe journalist Jonathan Swan?
    , @Jack D

    vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips
     
    I must have missed that chapter in Der Giftpilz.

    My wife and daughter have small eyes and thin lips - does this mean that they aren't Jewish?
  217. @Jack D
    Yes, it turns out that Claire herself is a full blooded Aryan, but is she guilty of Rassenschande?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out - do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?

    “do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?”

  218. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Andrew Joyce says she’s Jewish, but he’s Jew Mad. Otherwise, I cannot find any source on this.

    Usually crimethinkers who try to maintain mainstream respectability would make public any fraction of a wokemon point they might have, but she has not, so I’d guess she’s 0% Jew, or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.

    She does have some vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips. But you could say that about 1/3 or more of NW Europeans.

    or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.

    Does that describe journalist Jonathan Swan?

  219. @PiltdownMan
    Here's a picture of some Kalenjin people, the ethnic group that almost all elite Kenyan runners are from.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/b0/b8/ebb0b88470f122180e510c5efb358419.jpg



    Here's an NPR article on the Kalenjin from 2013. It went where it would not have dared to go today, in 2019, and would likely have been written very differently, if at all.

    "There are 17 American men in history who have run under 2:10 in the marathon," Epstein says. "There were 32 Kalenjin who did it in October of 2011."

    The Role Of Genetics

    Scientists and sports gurus have proposed all sorts of explanations over the years for Kalenjin prowess on the track: from their high-starch diet, to the altitude, to socioeconomics.

    All those factors are important, but none of them explain why this particular tribe is so dominant. That left Epstein when he was writing his book exploring a more controversial line of inquiry: Is there something genetically different about the Kalenjin that makes them superior runners?

    Asking that question almost convinced Epstein to back out of his book contract. He realized he'd have to address sensitive questions of ethnic and racial differences. Academics told him they had evidence of genetic advantage but wouldn't share their research with him for fear they'd lose their jobs. "And these were professors with tenure," he says.

    But some scientists did talk to him; and they explained one aspect of innate biology that clearly helps Kalenjin: the shape of their bodies.

    Kalenjin have particularly thin ankles and calves, a body build common to Nilotic tribes who grow up near the equator. Epstein says this is particularly important in running because your leg is like a pendulum. The more weight you have farther away from your center of gravity, the more difficult it is to swing.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners


     

    Thanks.

  220. @Anonymous

    One of the Cochran commenters notes that this may be a case of “calling a deer a horse”. This relates to a story, well known to all Chinese, of a court eunuch who presented a deer to the Emperor and said it was a horse. He took note of everyone who protested or even remained silent in the face of this obvious falsehood and had them executed.

    In other words, reasonable people might differ as to whether intelligence is heritable but it’s obvious that athletic traits are. The test of a true follower is whether he will remain loyal EVEN in the face of obvious falsehood.
     
    How does this story map at all onto the situation? Why would the Emperor want his advisors to go along with the eunuch's lie? And where is the "reasonable people might differ" similarity?

    It was the eunuch, the most powerful man behind the emperor, who killed people who didn’t support his lie.

  221. @Anonymous

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out – do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?
     
    You are projecting, Jack.

    But more importantly, what is it that Jews want? What motivates people to be Jewish, to separate themselves from others? What is the purpose?

    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

    As for separation, when Jews wish to separate themselves, anti-Semites tell them to assimilate and when they try to assimilate, anti-Semites try to pick them out of the crowd. It’s really a no-win proposition.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote:

    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.
     
    Well, I am Irish/English/German/etc. because I was born Irish/English/German/etc., but I do not do anything special because I am Irish/English/German/etc. as opposed to if I had been born, say, Polish/Italian. Nor do I go to any effort to associate with other Irish/English/German/etc.'s as opposed to, say, Polish/Italians.

    That I am Irish/English/German/etc. is just a somewhat uninteresting fact about my ancestry, a bit less interesting than the fact that my grandfather was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII or that a (half) great-great uncle died fighting in Europe during WWI.

    Lots of Jews do seem to be a lot more intense about their ethnic background than I am about mine.

    And that does ask for an explanation.
  222. @Lot
    Andrew Joyce says she’s Jewish, but he’s Jew Mad. Otherwise, I cannot find any source on this.

    Usually crimethinkers who try to maintain mainstream respectability would make public any fraction of a wokemon point they might have, but she has not, so I’d guess she’s 0% Jew, or maybe about an 1/8 like a lot of elite Australians.

    She does have some vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips. But you could say that about 1/3 or more of NW Europeans.

    vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips

    I must have missed that chapter in Der Giftpilz.

    My wife and daughter have small eyes and thin lips – does this mean that they aren’t Jewish?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Boys, boys, please. Let's just apply the Monty Python Australian solution and call everyone a Jew. That will avoid confusion.

    Shalom.
  223. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Just click on the links, creamcake.

    Sysadmin have blocked SoMe. Can’t see anything.

  224. @Paleo Liberal
    The pitcher Tommy John came from Indiana.
    He says his dream was to play in the NBA. At some point some coaches took him aside and told him he would never make the big time as a b-ball player, but he was an extremely talented pitcher. So in college he had to give up basketball and concentrate on his pitching.

    Maybe Tommy should have tried to stick with basketball as well, joining the 13 players who played in both MLB and the NBA: Chuck Connors, Danny Ainge, Frank Baumholtz, Gene Conley, Dave DeBusschere, Johnny Gee, Dick Groat, Steve Hamilton, Mark Hendrickson, Cotton Nash, Ron Reed, Dick Ricketts and Howie Schultz. In addition to these 13, Bob Gibson played for both the St. Louis Cardinals and the Harlem Globetrotters. I think Ainge was the last one to pull this off; the need for specialization and year-round training today is probably too great of a hurtle to overcome. Plus, both sports have become financially lucrative enough that there is no monetary need.

  225. @HA
    No one — and, to the best of my knowledge, literally no one — claims to believe in transubstantiation unless they wish to assert their membership in some Christian denomination, most commonly, Roman Catholicism.

    And that's the precisely the key difference in admitting -- even to themselves -- that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don't expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation -- in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether. The fact that you can't seem to admit this, or wish to pretend it's immaterial, tells me you're the one in this case who wants us all to assert that a deer is a horse. I'm not buying it.

    HA wrote to me:

    And that’s the precisely the key difference in admitting — even to themselves — that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don’t expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation — in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether.

    Hmmm… and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Roman Catholicism (and Christianity in general) has collapsed as an organization that has any real social power (I am sympathetic to those who claim that in some sense Christianity is spiritually stronger now that it has lost secular power, but, still, it has lost secular power).

    Leftism is the dominant faith of our age, and Leftists now behave as Christians behaved when Christianity was socially dominant.

    It’s as simple as that.

    Yeah, yeah, Leftists pretend, quite unconvincingly, to be “scientific.” just as early Christians tried to appropriate half-understood concepts from neo-Platonism. And, for that matter, starting in the High Middle Ages, Roman Catholics claimed, also quite unconvincingly, that the basic truth of Christianity could be apprehended via Aristotelian reason. Aquinas actually tried to “explain” transubstantiation via the whole substance/accident silliness: I like to think Aristotle would have gotten a big laugh out of this.

    Of course, every means of using ideas as badges of group identity is different: that is the whole point of doing it –you need a unique form of silliness to prove your loyalty to your group. The silliness can be based on “faith” or “science” or the ineluctable historical laws of dialectical materialism or racial essentialism or the well-established “fact” of reincarnation or a million other possible forms of dogmatic silliness.

    Of course these details matter to the members of the group who are using the ideas as a badge of group identity.

    Again, that is the whole point.

    But from the viewpoint of a perceptive outsider, it is all the same: a willingness to lie to prove your loyalty to the group.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Hmmm… and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Ah, so now you're shifting goalposts from the aforementioned "obvious falsehoods" to any and all crime thoughts? Shifting the goalposts is certainly not the most honest way to admit defeat, but I suspect it's the best I'll get from you, so it will have to do.

    Yeah, there was certainly plenty of punishment of crimethoughts, regardless of whether or not they were obvious falsehoods. Leading people into ruination was regarded as a serious blow to the well being of the community back then. But despite all the Black Legend myths about "eppur si muove" and Inquisitors refusing to look into Galileo's telescope lest Satan thereby trick them (spoiler alert: that never happened), there was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can't. Save the goalshifting and other weasel maneuvers for someone who is unable to see them for what they really are.

  226. @Jack D
    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

    As for separation, when Jews wish to separate themselves, anti-Semites tell them to assimilate and when they try to assimilate, anti-Semites try to pick them out of the crowd. It's really a no-win proposition.

    Jack D wrote:

    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

    Well, I am Irish/English/German/etc. because I was born Irish/English/German/etc., but I do not do anything special because I am Irish/English/German/etc. as opposed to if I had been born, say, Polish/Italian. Nor do I go to any effort to associate with other Irish/English/German/etc.’s as opposed to, say, Polish/Italians.

    That I am Irish/English/German/etc. is just a somewhat uninteresting fact about my ancestry, a bit less interesting than the fact that my grandfather was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII or that a (half) great-great uncle died fighting in Europe during WWI.

    Lots of Jews do seem to be a lot more intense about their ethnic background than I am about mine.

    And that does ask for an explanation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don't identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion. I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc. A lot of them construct their identity and their social life around being proud ___-Americans. If you were to ask them what motivates them to be Greek they'd look at you like you were an idiot. They ARE Greek, you don't need a motivation. Most people I know who are 1/4 Jewish aren't that connected to Judaism either.
  227. @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote:

    This is a stupid question. What motivates a dog to be a dog and not a cat? Most people are Jewish because they were born Jewish. Motivation has nothing to do with it.
     
    Well, I am Irish/English/German/etc. because I was born Irish/English/German/etc., but I do not do anything special because I am Irish/English/German/etc. as opposed to if I had been born, say, Polish/Italian. Nor do I go to any effort to associate with other Irish/English/German/etc.'s as opposed to, say, Polish/Italians.

    That I am Irish/English/German/etc. is just a somewhat uninteresting fact about my ancestry, a bit less interesting than the fact that my grandfather was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII or that a (half) great-great uncle died fighting in Europe during WWI.

    Lots of Jews do seem to be a lot more intense about their ethnic background than I am about mine.

    And that does ask for an explanation.

    It’s not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don’t identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion. I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc. A lot of them construct their identity and their social life around being proud ___-Americans. If you were to ask them what motivates them to be Greek they’d look at you like you were an idiot. They ARE Greek, you don’t need a motivation. Most people I know who are 1/4 Jewish aren’t that connected to Judaism either.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote to me:

    It’s not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don’t identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion.
     
    Well, factually Ashkenazi Jews certainly seem to be a mixture. I had an Israeli friend in grad school who looked as if he could have been my brother -- blond hair and blue eyes, more like me than my middle brother. It seems unlikely that he was of pure, unmixed ancient Mideastern stock.

    As to religion, I was raised attending a fundamentalist Baptist church. I did not like it, refused to join the church or go through the joining rituals (such as baptism), and stopped going as soon as I could.

    I retain no ties at all to the Baptist denomination (and was in fact never listed as a church member, since I refused to join, even though my parents were members).

    So, why should Jews retain closer ties to the religion of Judaism than I do to the Baptists? Of course, I know that many Jews do not hold traditional Jewish theological beliefs, but, as you suggest, quite a few of these folks still feel a tie to Judaism. Why?

    Jack also wrote:

    I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc.
     
    Sure, I know a lot of these people, too. I grew up among many of them.

    For example, we know a very sweet elderly Greek lady who grew up on Crete under the Nazi occupation. But, her daughter married a guy of Swedish extraction. And their kids are exceedingly unlikely to marry Greek-Americans.

    Or take my brother-in-law who is of Polish and Italian extraction. He married a Chinese-American girl. It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy.

    Most other European ethnic groups get diluted into the great American melting pot fairly rapidly.

    But Jews not so much. And I'm not sure why.

    (I suppose our biological-determinist friends will say it is in the genes. My guess is culture and history. But it is unusual.)
  228. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Montagu

    “Montagu began life as Israel Ehrenberg… During the 1940s, Montagu published a series of works questioning the validity of race as a biological concept, including the UNESCO “Statement on Race”, and his very well known Man’s Most Dangerous Myth: the Fallacy of Race.”

  229. @Jack D
    Yes, it turns out that Claire herself is a full blooded Aryan, but is she guilty of Rassenschande?

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out - do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?

    “Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization.”

    Yes, and have you noticed lately they are reveling in it? Maybe you need a Twitter account.

    “Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names”

    For some reason, right now the name “Robert Maxwell” comes to mind. Would you like a hundred more? I hear Ralph Lauren keeps a list.

  230. Who is the guy that is so desperate to demonstrate that Lebanese aren’t Arabs in the least to lecture anybody else about racism?

  231. @International Jew

    there are many here (including you and me) who don’t use their real names because they don’t want to be publicly associated with “far right” figures like Steve
     
    That's me. I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here.

    I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here

    We read _Between the World and Me_ in my all-female (except me) book club. A few people thought it was brilliant/inspiring/lyrical/moving. An equal number spoke against it, but in very carefully measured terms. I was tempted, of course, to go all iStevey on it, but I like getting invited back, so…

    Sigh, it’s like that most everywhere I go. The lefties say whatever they want to say and clearly don’t give a crαp if they’re offending any conservatives in the room, and the conservatives always walk on eggshells.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    I'm flattered to see you follow my oeuvre so closely!

    Anyhow, notice all I said was that I didn't "go all iStevey" on them. Between that and not saying anything there's a lot of daylight. The other thing is that that book club was, like work, a place I valued for reasons unrelated to politics, and behaved accordingly.

    As it happens, I eventually got kicked out of that book club when some of the ladies found my Facebook page.

  232. @ganderson
    My two cents worth: The Beatles's Rubber Soul and Revolver are two of the greatest rock and roll albums ever- much of the rest of their oeuvre is somewhat dated- much quality but much Moody Blues/Pink Floyd style pretentiousness.

    The first two albums I owned were The Beatles’ Revolver and The Monkees’ Headquarters. I agree with you about Rubber Soul and Revolver, and I’m not anti-Monkees.

    I like real Roquefort cheese from the Combalou caves of Roquefort-sur-Soulzon, and I enjoy eating Cheetos out of the bag and licking the orange powder off my fingers.

  233. @Anonymous

    It continues to amaze me that the Jew sniffing dialog on unz.com had not advanced one bit from the Good Old Days. Bolshevik Joos are undermining Western Civilization. Sometimes they disguise themselves with Aryan names but we can sniff them out – do I detect a Semitic heaviness in her eyelids? A whiff of the shtetl in her earlobes? Has a Semite been sharing her bed?
     
    You are projecting, Jack.

    But more importantly, what is it that Jews want? What motivates people to be Jewish, to separate themselves from others? What is the purpose?

    It is a matter of some concerned note that many people born Jewish don’t want to be Jewish.

  234. Rumor has it that Nature will soon rename itself Nurture.

  235. My first was the Beatles VII (VI?). Eight days a Week was the hit.
    I like this:
    Q: What do you think of the Monkees?
    GARCIA: What am I supposed to think of them? [Laughs.] I mean, what do you want me to say?

    Q: Well, I mean, why should they get to be Number One?
    GARCIA: I don’t know. Maybe because their records are really pretty good. They should be good, because they have the best L.A. studio musicans and the best arrangers…

  236. @BengaliCanadianDude
    No different from other Lebanese Shia or Sunni Muslims. Or Druze. Their genetic makeup is pretty uniform, and not dependent on religion. Muslims in Lebanon have the same amount of Phoneician in them. Similar can be said about many Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-phoenicians-dna/in-lebanon-dna-may-yet-heal-rifts-idUSL0559096520070910

    https://stepfeed.com/dna-tests-prove-lebanese-are-direct-descendants-of-ancient-phoenicians-8777

    It _is_ dependent upon religion. ” Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins. ” The Moslems also have more, and more recent, sub-saharan African admixture.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    I mean even the Lebanese scientist disagrees with you. Muslim Lebanese don't look different from their Christian counterparts. It literally says in the articles that the difference between them is linguistic, and/or cultural
  237. HA says:
    @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    And that’s the precisely the key difference in admitting — even to themselves — that the doctrine is an article of faith, something that Saini will not do. Catholics don’t expect Muslims or Jews to believe in transubstantiation — in fact, they admit that what they believe is miraculous and cannot be ascertained by way of physical measurement. Saini, in claiming that what she preaches is ineluctably based on science and rationality, and in being willing to persecute anyone, anywhere, who in her mind defies her, is a different animal altogether.
     
    Hmmm... and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Roman Catholicism (and Christianity in general) has collapsed as an organization that has any real social power (I am sympathetic to those who claim that in some sense Christianity is spiritually stronger now that it has lost secular power, but, still, it has lost secular power).

    Leftism is the dominant faith of our age, and Leftists now behave as Christians behaved when Christianity was socially dominant.

    It's as simple as that.

    Yeah, yeah, Leftists pretend, quite unconvincingly, to be "scientific." just as early Christians tried to appropriate half-understood concepts from neo-Platonism. And, for that matter, starting in the High Middle Ages, Roman Catholics claimed, also quite unconvincingly, that the basic truth of Christianity could be apprehended via Aristotelian reason. Aquinas actually tried to "explain" transubstantiation via the whole substance/accident silliness: I like to think Aristotle would have gotten a big laugh out of this.

    Of course, every means of using ideas as badges of group identity is different: that is the whole point of doing it --you need a unique form of silliness to prove your loyalty to your group. The silliness can be based on "faith" or "science" or the ineluctable historical laws of dialectical materialism or racial essentialism or the well-established "fact" of reincarnation or a million other possible forms of dogmatic silliness.

    Of course these details matter to the members of the group who are using the ideas as a badge of group identity.

    Again, that is the whole point.

    But from the viewpoint of a perceptive outsider, it is all the same: a willingness to lie to prove your loyalty to the group.

    “Hmmm… and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts? Shifting the goalposts is certainly not the most honest way to admit defeat, but I suspect it’s the best I’ll get from you, so it will have to do.

    Yeah, there was certainly plenty of punishment of crimethoughts, regardless of whether or not they were obvious falsehoods. Leading people into ruination was regarded as a serious blow to the well being of the community back then. But despite all the Black Legend myths about “eppur si muove” and Inquisitors refusing to look into Galileo’s telescope lest Satan thereby trick them (spoiler alert: that never happened), there was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t. Save the goalshifting and other weasel maneuvers for someone who is unable to see them for what they really are.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts?
     
    Uh, no. No shifting of goalposts at all.

    I take to to be far, far more obvious that the wine and the wafer are indeed wine and wafer than that race denialism or global-warming alarmism is false.

    For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on "faith" makes it not obviously false. Nope. Just as labeling Marzism as being based on the "dialectic" does not keep it from being false.

    Of course, it is much, much more obvious that transubstantiation is false than most other belief systems.

    HA also wrote:

    [T]here was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t.
     
    Whatever. So, you would not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word "physical."

    And, they did burn people at the stake for publicly stating things they were not allowed to say: Giordano Bruno, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know: if Bruno had just crafted his words a little more carefully and stayed away from theological hot spots they might have let him live.

    Again, same thing with the PC SJWs today: you can talk about genetic variation among humans if you avoid certain theological hot spots --don't talk about intelligence, avoid the word "race," etc.

    One huge difference, of course: as nasty as the SJW PC police can be, they do not actually kill people.

    They may publicly humiliate you, cost you your job, limit your access to certain discussion venues (Twitter, etc.), kick you off university campuses, etc. All very nasty.

    But they do not try to actually kill you.

    In the good old days, Leftists did really murder people in large numbers for crimethink: Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Truly evil.

    But our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    The Church did. And it was not an aberration: Aquinas went into detail as to why it was morally justified.

    Rather a big distinction.
  238. @Jack D

    vaguely AJ facial features: big eyes and lips
     
    I must have missed that chapter in Der Giftpilz.

    My wife and daughter have small eyes and thin lips - does this mean that they aren't Jewish?

    Boys, boys, please. Let’s just apply the Monty Python Australian solution and call everyone a Jew. That will avoid confusion.

    Shalom.

  239. @HA
    "Hmmm… and I guess you have not heard about how the Roman Catholics used to deal with crimethinkers???

    Ah, so now you're shifting goalposts from the aforementioned "obvious falsehoods" to any and all crime thoughts? Shifting the goalposts is certainly not the most honest way to admit defeat, but I suspect it's the best I'll get from you, so it will have to do.

    Yeah, there was certainly plenty of punishment of crimethoughts, regardless of whether or not they were obvious falsehoods. Leading people into ruination was regarded as a serious blow to the well being of the community back then. But despite all the Black Legend myths about "eppur si muove" and Inquisitors refusing to look into Galileo's telescope lest Satan thereby trick them (spoiler alert: that never happened), there was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can't. Save the goalshifting and other weasel maneuvers for someone who is unable to see them for what they really are.

    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts?

    Uh, no. No shifting of goalposts at all.

    I take to to be far, far more obvious that the wine and the wafer are indeed wine and wafer than that race denialism or global-warming alarmism is false.

    For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on “faith” makes it not obviously false. Nope. Just as labeling Marzism as being based on the “dialectic” does not keep it from being false.

    Of course, it is much, much more obvious that transubstantiation is false than most other belief systems.

    HA also wrote:

    [T]here was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t.

    Whatever. So, you would not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical.”

    And, they did burn people at the stake for publicly stating things they were not allowed to say: Giordano Bruno, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know: if Bruno had just crafted his words a little more carefully and stayed away from theological hot spots they might have let him live.

    Again, same thing with the PC SJWs today: you can talk about genetic variation among humans if you avoid certain theological hot spots –don’t talk about intelligence, avoid the word “race,” etc.

    One huge difference, of course: as nasty as the SJW PC police can be, they do not actually kill people.

    They may publicly humiliate you, cost you your job, limit your access to certain discussion venues (Twitter, etc.), kick you off university campuses, etc. All very nasty.

    But they do not try to actually kill you.

    In the good old days, Leftists did really murder people in large numbers for crimethink: Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Truly evil.

    But our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    The Church did. And it was not an aberration: Aquinas went into detail as to why it was morally justified.

    Rather a big distinction.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    If I may....

    You gentlemen are having two different, unilateral arguments, each against the imagined (rather than the actual) points and rebuttals of the other. It's a surreal, but futile exercise.
    , @HA
    "For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on “faith” makes it not obviously false."

    I'm saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.

    I'm not sure what your remaining blather means with regard to leftists who less than a century ago murdered people en masse for thought crimes but now choose not to, and Catholics who several centuries ago killed people for thought crimes and now also don't, but really, I doubt you yourself know. I'm guessing it's something similar to the cloud of ink a squid squirts when it's trying to retreat, but it's anyone's guess.

    , @Vinteuil

    ...our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.
     
    Wait.
  240. @BengaliCanadianDude

    But the Moslems are inbred
     
    Moreso than the Christians in that region? 100%. But to what extent?


    Like you said, the gap is probably minimal, and quite trivial

    Steve sent me to one site with “Consanguinity” in its name. There was one study that showed that among Palestinians, 16% of Christian marriages and 29% of Moslem ones were consanguine. Figure in, too, that the Christian mating pool is much smaller.

    This was the only direct Christian/Islamic comparison I could find. But 16% was on the high end of one group, and 29% on the low end for the other.

    The Maronites are in communion with Rome, but wouldn’t be held to that church’s degree-of-relation regulations any more than to priestly celibacy. They probably have their own set of rules, though.

    Protestants were less picky about this, but still had limits Second-cousin marriages weren’t rare in the American colonies, but first-person ones certainly were.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24418538_Consanguineous_Marriages_in_Morocco_and_the_Consequence_for_the_Incidence_of_Autosomal_Recessive_Disorders

    The prevalence of consanguinity in Morocco was found to be 15.25%
     
    I mean....

    Morocco has a consanginous marriage rate of 15.25 %

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24418538_Consanguineous_Marriages_in_Morocco_and_the_Consequence_for_the_Incidence_of_Autosomal_Recessive_Disorders



    https://en.qantara.de/content/marital-traditions-in-the-islamic-world-marriage-first-love-later?nopaging=1

    Jordan has a rate of about or less than 20 percent

    in Jordan the figure is thought to be around 20 %.
     
  241. @Jack D
    It's not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don't identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion. I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc. A lot of them construct their identity and their social life around being proud ___-Americans. If you were to ask them what motivates them to be Greek they'd look at you like you were an idiot. They ARE Greek, you don't need a motivation. Most people I know who are 1/4 Jewish aren't that connected to Judaism either.

    Jack D wrote to me:

    It’s not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don’t identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion.

    Well, factually Ashkenazi Jews certainly seem to be a mixture. I had an Israeli friend in grad school who looked as if he could have been my brother — blond hair and blue eyes, more like me than my middle brother. It seems unlikely that he was of pure, unmixed ancient Mideastern stock.

    As to religion, I was raised attending a fundamentalist Baptist church. I did not like it, refused to join the church or go through the joining rituals (such as baptism), and stopped going as soon as I could.

    I retain no ties at all to the Baptist denomination (and was in fact never listed as a church member, since I refused to join, even though my parents were members).

    So, why should Jews retain closer ties to the religion of Judaism than I do to the Baptists? Of course, I know that many Jews do not hold traditional Jewish theological beliefs, but, as you suggest, quite a few of these folks still feel a tie to Judaism. Why?

    Jack also wrote:

    I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc.

    Sure, I know a lot of these people, too. I grew up among many of them.

    For example, we know a very sweet elderly Greek lady who grew up on Crete under the Nazi occupation. But, her daughter married a guy of Swedish extraction. And their kids are exceedingly unlikely to marry Greek-Americans.

    Or take my brother-in-law who is of Polish and Italian extraction. He married a Chinese-American girl. It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy.

    Most other European ethnic groups get diluted into the great American melting pot fairly rapidly.

    But Jews not so much. And I’m not sure why.

    (I suppose our biological-determinist friends will say it is in the genes. My guess is culture and history. But it is unusual.)

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy
     
    https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/reynolds___liberace.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1
    , @tomv
    Of course, culture and history play a role, but to the extent that ethnocentrism is at all heritable (and practically all traits are more or less) then so must genetics. It's not either-or. The two can actually work together.

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.

  242. @Jack D
    He didn't say that they were bad, just that they were artificially constructed and "inauthentic". The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality (if perhaps not truly great) - e.g. Kraft Cracker Barrel cheddar cheese. Or you can be 100% authentic and yet suck - some "artisanal" cheese that tastes like a barnyard (which in turn is still perhaps better than tasting like a chemical factory). But the true greats (e.g. the Beatles) have the full package - authenticity AND quality.

    The truth is that you can be a slick corporate product lacking all authenticity and still be of good quality

    Any random flamenco guitarist off a dusty Andalucian street could compose a more “authentic” opera about Seville than could a Frenchman, an Italian or, God help us, some Salzburger.

    That doesn’t stop us from listening to Carmen, The Barber of Seville, or The Marriage of Figaro.

    • LOL: Vinteuil
  243. @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote to me:

    It’s not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don’t identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion.
     
    Well, factually Ashkenazi Jews certainly seem to be a mixture. I had an Israeli friend in grad school who looked as if he could have been my brother -- blond hair and blue eyes, more like me than my middle brother. It seems unlikely that he was of pure, unmixed ancient Mideastern stock.

    As to religion, I was raised attending a fundamentalist Baptist church. I did not like it, refused to join the church or go through the joining rituals (such as baptism), and stopped going as soon as I could.

    I retain no ties at all to the Baptist denomination (and was in fact never listed as a church member, since I refused to join, even though my parents were members).

    So, why should Jews retain closer ties to the religion of Judaism than I do to the Baptists? Of course, I know that many Jews do not hold traditional Jewish theological beliefs, but, as you suggest, quite a few of these folks still feel a tie to Judaism. Why?

    Jack also wrote:

    I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc.
     
    Sure, I know a lot of these people, too. I grew up among many of them.

    For example, we know a very sweet elderly Greek lady who grew up on Crete under the Nazi occupation. But, her daughter married a guy of Swedish extraction. And their kids are exceedingly unlikely to marry Greek-Americans.

    Or take my brother-in-law who is of Polish and Italian extraction. He married a Chinese-American girl. It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy.

    Most other European ethnic groups get diluted into the great American melting pot fairly rapidly.

    But Jews not so much. And I'm not sure why.

    (I suppose our biological-determinist friends will say it is in the genes. My guess is culture and history. But it is unusual.)

    It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy

  244. @The Alarmist
    Utter nonsense. Nothing is heritable. Everything is random, and we are all born equal in every possible way under the sun. Just look around you and you will see the truth in this. Anyone who denies these self-evident truths is socially maladjusted and must be immediately de-platformed and should be physically removed to psychiatric care for his or her their own good and the good of society as a whole.

    Quite so! Why, I’ve known it ever since that magical day when I was yet a boy and our dog a had a litter of kittens….

    • LOL: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmzuRXLzqKk
  245. @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts?
     
    Uh, no. No shifting of goalposts at all.

    I take to to be far, far more obvious that the wine and the wafer are indeed wine and wafer than that race denialism or global-warming alarmism is false.

    For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on "faith" makes it not obviously false. Nope. Just as labeling Marzism as being based on the "dialectic" does not keep it from being false.

    Of course, it is much, much more obvious that transubstantiation is false than most other belief systems.

    HA also wrote:

    [T]here was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t.
     
    Whatever. So, you would not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word "physical."

    And, they did burn people at the stake for publicly stating things they were not allowed to say: Giordano Bruno, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know: if Bruno had just crafted his words a little more carefully and stayed away from theological hot spots they might have let him live.

    Again, same thing with the PC SJWs today: you can talk about genetic variation among humans if you avoid certain theological hot spots --don't talk about intelligence, avoid the word "race," etc.

    One huge difference, of course: as nasty as the SJW PC police can be, they do not actually kill people.

    They may publicly humiliate you, cost you your job, limit your access to certain discussion venues (Twitter, etc.), kick you off university campuses, etc. All very nasty.

    But they do not try to actually kill you.

    In the good old days, Leftists did really murder people in large numbers for crimethink: Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Truly evil.

    But our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    The Church did. And it was not an aberration: Aquinas went into detail as to why it was morally justified.

    Rather a big distinction.

    If I may….

    You gentlemen are having two different, unilateral arguments, each against the imagined (rather than the actual) points and rebuttals of the other. It’s a surreal, but futile exercise.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Autochthon wrote to me:

    You gentlemen are having two different, unilateral arguments, each against the imagined (rather than the actual) points and rebuttals of the other. It’s a surreal, but futile exercise.
     
    No, not at all.

    I have, after all, gotten HA to admit that he is okay with burning people at the stake of they fial to utter the magic word "physical" when they ridicule the doctrine of transubstantiation. His therapy is progressing well.

    You seem to be assuming that because he and I continue to disagree we must be talking past each other.

    Not at all. We have both clarified our own and the other person's views quite a lot.

    He now knows that I think his concept that transubstantiation is true in a "metaphysical" sense is quite obviously false. Indeed, I think this is more obviousaly false than just abouot any other weird idea I can think of that is held by large numbers of people.

    And I now know that he will not burn me at the stake if I just utter the magic word "physical," which, alas, I decline to do.

    So, I guess I get to become a human torch!

    See: HA and I are coming to a deeper and deeper mutual understanding. Just not agreement.
  246. HA says:
    @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts?
     
    Uh, no. No shifting of goalposts at all.

    I take to to be far, far more obvious that the wine and the wafer are indeed wine and wafer than that race denialism or global-warming alarmism is false.

    For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on "faith" makes it not obviously false. Nope. Just as labeling Marzism as being based on the "dialectic" does not keep it from being false.

    Of course, it is much, much more obvious that transubstantiation is false than most other belief systems.

    HA also wrote:

    [T]here was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t.
     
    Whatever. So, you would not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word "physical."

    And, they did burn people at the stake for publicly stating things they were not allowed to say: Giordano Bruno, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know: if Bruno had just crafted his words a little more carefully and stayed away from theological hot spots they might have let him live.

    Again, same thing with the PC SJWs today: you can talk about genetic variation among humans if you avoid certain theological hot spots --don't talk about intelligence, avoid the word "race," etc.

    One huge difference, of course: as nasty as the SJW PC police can be, they do not actually kill people.

    They may publicly humiliate you, cost you your job, limit your access to certain discussion venues (Twitter, etc.), kick you off university campuses, etc. All very nasty.

    But they do not try to actually kill you.

    In the good old days, Leftists did really murder people in large numbers for crimethink: Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Truly evil.

    But our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    The Church did. And it was not an aberration: Aquinas went into detail as to why it was morally justified.

    Rather a big distinction.

    “For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on “faith” makes it not obviously false.”

    I’m saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.

    I’m not sure what your remaining blather means with regard to leftists who less than a century ago murdered people en masse for thought crimes but now choose not to, and Catholics who several centuries ago killed people for thought crimes and now also don’t, but really, I doubt you yourself know. I’m guessing it’s something similar to the cloud of ink a squid squirts when it’s trying to retreat, but it’s anyone’s guess.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    I’m saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.
     
    Oh, I understand what you are saying: I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false.

    I think the wine and wafer obviously remain wine and wafer, and that any claims to the contrary, whether or not using the magic word "metaphysical," are quite obviously falsehoods made to show one's loyalty to the group: typical, indeed paradigmatic, examples of beliefs proclaimed to serve as badges of group loyalty.

    HA also wrote:

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.
     
    Oh, I realize perfectly well what you are saying: I simply think you are trying to draw a distinction that makes no difference at all.

    If Saini claimed that her statements were "metaphysical," that would not redeem them in the slightest: her beliefs simply happen to be wrong, just like yours.

    In fact, she has arguments for her claims that, superficially, are indeed "rational and scientific." Those arguments are mistaken, but she is not insanely irrational or unscientific.

    The problem with her claims is simply that she is wrong. And, of course, she does pretty clearly adhere to those beliefs because they serve to validate her loyalty to groups to which she wishes to belong.

    Exactly like you, though your beliefs are a good deal crazier than hers, which is why your beliefs serve so much better -- for more then a millennium! -- to prove your unbending loyalty to your group. Her beliefs will probably not even last for a few centuries.
    , @Vinteuil
    "...transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim..."

    Hmmm...by "metaphysical" do you mean, more or less, "symbolic?" I.e., the wine symbolizes the blood of Christ, and the wafer represents His flesh?

    In philosophy, "metaphysics" means, more or less, the fundamental presuppositions upon which any understanding of reality depends

    In popular culture, "metaphysics" means, more or less, new-age crap.

    I'm wondering what particular line you're trying to tread between philosophy & popular culture.
  247. @Jack D

    Current Year thinkers seem to assume that the more obviously factually wrong they are, the more Pokemon Points they deserve.
     
    This is the converse of Orwell's postulate, which in paraphrase goes "some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them". Therefore, if I believe in really stupid ideas, I must therefore be an intellectual! QED.

    An intellectual has the mental subtlety to see past the falsehoods that the ignorant masses believe. These things may appear obvious on their face but as someone of great wisdom and intelligence I see past the obviousness and understand the REAL truth. I am a veritable Galileo - the yahoos see the sun's path across the sky and assume that it is moving but I know that the sun is standing still and it is the EARTH that is moving. Don't let your eyes deceive you. Eppur si muove!

    That’s not a converse. It’s not even a corollary.

    If you must call it something, it’s syllogism, with Orwell’s famous quote as major premise.

    Major premise: All BS believers are intellectuals.
    Minor premise: I am a BS believer.
    Conclusion: I am an intellectual.

  248. @Autochthon
    If I may....

    You gentlemen are having two different, unilateral arguments, each against the imagined (rather than the actual) points and rebuttals of the other. It's a surreal, but futile exercise.

    Autochthon wrote to me:

    You gentlemen are having two different, unilateral arguments, each against the imagined (rather than the actual) points and rebuttals of the other. It’s a surreal, but futile exercise.

    No, not at all.

    I have, after all, gotten HA to admit that he is okay with burning people at the stake of they fial to utter the magic word “physical” when they ridicule the doctrine of transubstantiation. His therapy is progressing well.

    You seem to be assuming that because he and I continue to disagree we must be talking past each other.

    Not at all. We have both clarified our own and the other person’s views quite a lot.

    He now knows that I think his concept that transubstantiation is true in a “metaphysical” sense is quite obviously false. Indeed, I think this is more obviousaly false than just abouot any other weird idea I can think of that is held by large numbers of people.

    And I now know that he will not burn me at the stake if I just utter the magic word “physical,” which, alas, I decline to do.

    So, I guess I get to become a human torch!

    See: HA and I are coming to a deeper and deeper mutual understanding. Just not agreement.

  249. @PhysicistDave
    Jack D wrote to me:

    It’s not quite the same thing because you are a mixture and don’t identify with one nationality. Also you fail to mention religion.
     
    Well, factually Ashkenazi Jews certainly seem to be a mixture. I had an Israeli friend in grad school who looked as if he could have been my brother -- blond hair and blue eyes, more like me than my middle brother. It seems unlikely that he was of pure, unmixed ancient Mideastern stock.

    As to religion, I was raised attending a fundamentalist Baptist church. I did not like it, refused to join the church or go through the joining rituals (such as baptism), and stopped going as soon as I could.

    I retain no ties at all to the Baptist denomination (and was in fact never listed as a church member, since I refused to join, even though my parents were members).

    So, why should Jews retain closer ties to the religion of Judaism than I do to the Baptists? Of course, I know that many Jews do not hold traditional Jewish theological beliefs, but, as you suggest, quite a few of these folks still feel a tie to Judaism. Why?

    Jack also wrote:

    I know a lot of (non-Jewish) people who identify strongly with their ethnicity/religion. They identify with other Armenians or Greeks or Irish or Ukrainians or whatever they are and are proud of their accomplishments, they do Greek or Armenian folk dancing or singing or or something, they attend the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Church, etc.
     
    Sure, I know a lot of these people, too. I grew up among many of them.

    For example, we know a very sweet elderly Greek lady who grew up on Crete under the Nazi occupation. But, her daughter married a guy of Swedish extraction. And their kids are exceedingly unlikely to marry Greek-Americans.

    Or take my brother-in-law who is of Polish and Italian extraction. He married a Chinese-American girl. It would be just dumb coincidence if either of his daughters married a Polish-Italian guy.

    Most other European ethnic groups get diluted into the great American melting pot fairly rapidly.

    But Jews not so much. And I'm not sure why.

    (I suppose our biological-determinist friends will say it is in the genes. My guess is culture and history. But it is unusual.)

    Of course, culture and history play a role, but to the extent that ethnocentrism is at all heritable (and practically all traits are more or less) then so must genetics. It’s not either-or. The two can actually work together.

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    tomv wrote to me:

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.
     
    Interesting hypothesis. I wonder if anyone has any insight as to how likely it is to be true.

    I should probably explain why I do not just assume it is true: For a long time, Chinese have used chopsticks. [Fill in similar chain of reasoning.] Therefore, Chinese are genetically adapted to use chopsticks. Or to take an even more absurd example (stolen from Shaw's Saint Joan), the English tendency to swear "God damn!" shows that the English have a gene for "God-damnedness"! Obviously, increasingly bizarre examples could be multiplied ad infinitum.

    I do agree that a trait that might be called "clannishness" is more likely to have a genetic component than a trait for "chopstickiness" or "Goddamnedness."

    But, the point is that we only have so many genes and genes cannot actually control (or even strongly influence) everything: almost certainly some traits are overwhelmingly cultural rather than genetic.

    So, how can we tell if your hypothesis is true?
  250. @HA
    "For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on “faith” makes it not obviously false."

    I'm saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.

    I'm not sure what your remaining blather means with regard to leftists who less than a century ago murdered people en masse for thought crimes but now choose not to, and Catholics who several centuries ago killed people for thought crimes and now also don't, but really, I doubt you yourself know. I'm guessing it's something similar to the cloud of ink a squid squirts when it's trying to retreat, but it's anyone's guess.

    HA wrote to me:

    I’m saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.

    Oh, I understand what you are saying: I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false.

    I think the wine and wafer obviously remain wine and wafer, and that any claims to the contrary, whether or not using the magic word “metaphysical,” are quite obviously falsehoods made to show one’s loyalty to the group: typical, indeed paradigmatic, examples of beliefs proclaimed to serve as badges of group loyalty.

    HA also wrote:

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.

    Oh, I realize perfectly well what you are saying: I simply think you are trying to draw a distinction that makes no difference at all.

    If Saini claimed that her statements were “metaphysical,” that would not redeem them in the slightest: her beliefs simply happen to be wrong, just like yours.

    In fact, she has arguments for her claims that, superficially, are indeed “rational and scientific.” Those arguments are mistaken, but she is not insanely irrational or unscientific.

    The problem with her claims is simply that she is wrong. And, of course, she does pretty clearly adhere to those beliefs because they serve to validate her loyalty to groups to which she wishes to belong.

    Exactly like you, though your beliefs are a good deal crazier than hers, which is why your beliefs serve so much better — for more then a millennium! — to prove your unbending loyalty to your group. Her beliefs will probably not even last for a few centuries.

    • Replies: @HA
    "I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false."

    Ah, and there we have it; there's the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn't begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini's claims.

    So even though you continue to insist you can't see the difference, that is evidently just blowhard bluster on your part. To the extent you want to continue to THINK you haven't just dug yourself in deeper, feel free to do so. I know better.

    As for the rest of what you wrote -- about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that's just more tangential smoke-blowing. Believing that the cosmos rests on a giant turtle strikes me as a belief far more absurd (precisely because it is not just metaphysical) than any number of doctrines that have replaced them. Under your theory, the absurdity should have actually enhanced its survival. It didn't. Indeed, the cosmic turtle went out of favor long before we were flying people to the moon. In other words, you're wrong again. To the extent that blatantly idiotic pontification such yours is typical of what follows when people discard Christianity, that, I suspect, will do far more to ensure its survival than any inherent absurdity of transubstantiation.

  251. HA says:
    @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    I’m saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.
     
    Oh, I understand what you are saying: I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false.

    I think the wine and wafer obviously remain wine and wafer, and that any claims to the contrary, whether or not using the magic word "metaphysical," are quite obviously falsehoods made to show one's loyalty to the group: typical, indeed paradigmatic, examples of beliefs proclaimed to serve as badges of group loyalty.

    HA also wrote:

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.
     
    Oh, I realize perfectly well what you are saying: I simply think you are trying to draw a distinction that makes no difference at all.

    If Saini claimed that her statements were "metaphysical," that would not redeem them in the slightest: her beliefs simply happen to be wrong, just like yours.

    In fact, she has arguments for her claims that, superficially, are indeed "rational and scientific." Those arguments are mistaken, but she is not insanely irrational or unscientific.

    The problem with her claims is simply that she is wrong. And, of course, she does pretty clearly adhere to those beliefs because they serve to validate her loyalty to groups to which she wishes to belong.

    Exactly like you, though your beliefs are a good deal crazier than hers, which is why your beliefs serve so much better -- for more then a millennium! -- to prove your unbending loyalty to your group. Her beliefs will probably not even last for a few centuries.

    “I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false.”

    Ah, and there we have it; there’s the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn’t begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini’s claims.

    So even though you continue to insist you can’t see the difference, that is evidently just blowhard bluster on your part. To the extent you want to continue to THINK you haven’t just dug yourself in deeper, feel free to do so. I know better.

    As for the rest of what you wrote — about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that’s just more tangential smoke-blowing. Believing that the cosmos rests on a giant turtle strikes me as a belief far more absurd (precisely because it is not just metaphysical) than any number of doctrines that have replaced them. Under your theory, the absurdity should have actually enhanced its survival. It didn’t. Indeed, the cosmic turtle went out of favor long before we were flying people to the moon. In other words, you’re wrong again. To the extent that blatantly idiotic pontification such yours is typical of what follows when people discard Christianity, that, I suspect, will do far more to ensure its survival than any inherent absurdity of transubstantiation.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, and there we have it; there’s the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn’t begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini’s claims.
     
    First of all, I certainly cannot see how Saini's claims are different: what "recourse to physics or empirical measurements" could possibly prove she is wrong???

    None at all.

    She is guilty of a simple error of logic: she seems to think that because there are not sharp differences between races, therefore race does not exist. Everyone knows that that is silly.

    And, of course, same thing for transubstantiaition.

    Look: "blood" refers to stuff that can course through artieries and veins and bring oxygen to various parts of the body and that contains erythrocytes (red blood cells), platelets, plasma, various chemicals dissolved in the plasam, etc.

    So, where are the platelets in "consecrated" wine? "Metaphysical" platelets perhaps? Erythrocytes? The standard components of plasma?

    They're not there.

    No one thinks they are there. No one thinks that "consecrated" wine really contains "metaphysical" erythrocytes and "metaphysical"platelets that just happen to be undetectable physically.

    The whole idea that the "consecrated" wine is really ("metaphysically") blood comes from a time when people did not know what blood actually is.

    But, in the twenty-first century, if you want to call something "blood" that has no red blood cells, no platelets, no plasma, etc., you are just playing silly games with words.

    And everyone knows that.

    Everyone knows it is simply using ideas (or, in this case, empty verbiage) as a badge of group identity.

    You keep using the word "physics" and referring to "emprical measurements" as if I am trying to make any sort of point using those words. But, I am not. You are the one obsessed with contrasting the words "physical" and "metaphysical," as if "metaphysical" is a magical word that turns nonsense into sense.

    But it isn't: nonsense labeled "metaphysical" is still just plain old nonsense.

    Yes, I happen to be a physicist, but any normal adult -- an accountant, a truck driver, a biologist, etc. -- could make my point without referring to physics at all.

    Our exchange really has made my point in a stunning way: no one is going to think you have made any kind of case at all that consecrated wine is really blood, except for those, like you, who feel obligated to assent to that claim to prove their loyalty to a group.
    , @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    As for the rest of what you wrote — about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that’s just more tangential smoke-blowing.
     
    That's not what I said. What I indicated was that when the purpose of a belief is to prove your loyalty to a group because of the belief's absurdity, then the absurdity can actually be a plus.

    The problem Saini has is that her beliefs claim to rest on science, and ongoing advances in science make them increasingly silly.

    But, as you have emphasized again and again, you will never accept any scientific test of your absurd belief in transubstantiation. Your belief is still fading, even among your fellow believers: despite your protestations to the contrary, modern knowledge of blood makes your belief more than slightly silly. Indeed, I have had a bit of trouble finding many Catholics who really still believe in it unreservedly. (Which makes you a rare find indeed, HA!)

    But, still, our exchange here shows that your belief is a bit more absurd than Saini's and it has indeed survived a longer time.
  252. @songbird
    How do "Meds" do in sports? If they won all the medals would Taleb have a different opinion?

    How do “Meds” do in sports? If they won all the medals would Taleb have a different opinion?

    Judging by his Twatter outburst Taleb is off his Meds.

    I gave him the benefit of doubt as is my wont for general curmudgeonliness.

    Mea Culpa — Taleb’s a wilfully ignorant tosser.

  253. @gcochran
    It _is_ dependent upon religion. " Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins. " The Moslems also have more, and more recent, sub-saharan African admixture.

    I mean even the Lebanese scientist disagrees with you. Muslim Lebanese don’t look different from their Christian counterparts. It literally says in the articles that the difference between them is linguistic, and/or cultural

  254. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:
    @ATBOTL
    What Hazony is doing is just neoconservatism 2.0. Early neocons were fairly tough talking about racial issues. Did that lead to anything good?

    What Hazony is doing is just neoconservatism 2.0. Early neocons were fairly tough talking about racial issues. Did that lead to anything good?

    Don’t be so passive. Hazony has created a forum for discussion, and it isn’t certain where things will go. It’s an opportunity. Engage with it and with him.

  255. @PhysicistDave
    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, so now you’re shifting goalposts from the aforementioned “obvious falsehoods” to any and all crime thoughts?
     
    Uh, no. No shifting of goalposts at all.

    I take to to be far, far more obvious that the wine and the wafer are indeed wine and wafer than that race denialism or global-warming alarmism is false.

    For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on "faith" makes it not obviously false. Nope. Just as labeling Marzism as being based on the "dialectic" does not keep it from being false.

    Of course, it is much, much more obvious that transubstantiation is false than most other belief systems.

    HA also wrote:

    [T]here was never any punishment of those who averred that there is no physical difference whatsoever between a consecrated and an unconsecrated Communion wafer.

    If you want to claim otherwise, produce the evidence. Otherwise, at least be honest enough to admit you can’t.
     
    Whatever. So, you would not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word "physical."

    And, they did burn people at the stake for publicly stating things they were not allowed to say: Giordano Bruno, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know: if Bruno had just crafted his words a little more carefully and stayed away from theological hot spots they might have let him live.

    Again, same thing with the PC SJWs today: you can talk about genetic variation among humans if you avoid certain theological hot spots --don't talk about intelligence, avoid the word "race," etc.

    One huge difference, of course: as nasty as the SJW PC police can be, they do not actually kill people.

    They may publicly humiliate you, cost you your job, limit your access to certain discussion venues (Twitter, etc.), kick you off university campuses, etc. All very nasty.

    But they do not try to actually kill you.

    In the good old days, Leftists did really murder people in large numbers for crimethink: Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Truly evil.

    But our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    The Church did. And it was not an aberration: Aquinas went into detail as to why it was morally justified.

    Rather a big distinction.

    …our current PC police are not actually killing people for crimethink.

    Wait.

  256. @HA
    "For some reason you seem to think that claiming that transubstantiation is based on “faith” makes it not obviously false."

    I'm saying that transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim. So, no, you would indeed not be burned at the stake if you remembered to include the magic word “physical”, and it is therefore an important distinction, if only for that reason.

    On the contrary, Saini is not about to admit that her claims are metaphysical. She is presenting them as absolutely 100% rational and scientific. Even you, I suspect, for all your frantic attempts to blow smoke to deflect from a failing argument, can realize that crucial difference.

    I'm not sure what your remaining blather means with regard to leftists who less than a century ago murdered people en masse for thought crimes but now choose not to, and Catholics who several centuries ago killed people for thought crimes and now also don't, but really, I doubt you yourself know. I'm guessing it's something similar to the cloud of ink a squid squirts when it's trying to retreat, but it's anyone's guess.

    “…transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim…”

    Hmmm…by “metaphysical” do you mean, more or less, “symbolic?” I.e., the wine symbolizes the blood of Christ, and the wafer represents His flesh?

    In philosophy, “metaphysics” means, more or less, the fundamental presuppositions upon which any understanding of reality depends

    In popular culture, “metaphysics” means, more or less, new-age crap.

    I’m wondering what particular line you’re trying to tread between philosophy & popular culture.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Hmmm…by “metaphysical” do you mean, more or less, “symbolic?

    No, in this case I mean it not empirically measurable. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that claiming that transubstantiation is merely a symbolic transformation amounts to heresy as far as the vast majority of Christians (e.g., Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) are concerned. But it's certainly doesn't extend to claiming that atoms are being shifted around.

    And I don't pretend to know where the boundary exists, but Christians are hardly alone in regarding metaphysical notions as important. Many Americans would be hard pressed to tell you how many human rights can dance on the head of a pin, but they're 100% sure they possess these metaphysical entities in abundance, more with each passing generation.

  257. @David
    I comment under my own name where Facebook comments are supported, and say pretty much the things I say here

    We read _Between the World and Me_ in my all-female (except me) book club. A few people thought it was brilliant/inspiring/lyrical/moving. An equal number spoke against it, but in very carefully measured terms. I was tempted, of course, to go all iStevey on it, but I like getting invited back, so…

    Sigh
    , it’s like that most everywhere I go. The lefties say whatever they want to say and clearly don’t give a crαp if they’re offending any conservatives in the room, and the conservatives always walk on eggshells.
     

    I’m flattered to see you follow my oeuvre so closely!

    Anyhow, notice all I said was that I didn’t “go all iStevey” on them. Between that and not saying anything there’s a lot of daylight. The other thing is that that book club was, like work, a place I valued for reasons unrelated to politics, and behaved accordingly.

    As it happens, I eventually got kicked out of that book club when some of the ladies found my Facebook page.

  258. HA says:
    @Vinteuil
    "...transubstantiation make zero claims about the physical properties of the communion wafer, and on the contrary, is a metaphysical claim..."

    Hmmm...by "metaphysical" do you mean, more or less, "symbolic?" I.e., the wine symbolizes the blood of Christ, and the wafer represents His flesh?

    In philosophy, "metaphysics" means, more or less, the fundamental presuppositions upon which any understanding of reality depends

    In popular culture, "metaphysics" means, more or less, new-age crap.

    I'm wondering what particular line you're trying to tread between philosophy & popular culture.

    “Hmmm…by “metaphysical” do you mean, more or less, “symbolic?

    No, in this case I mean it not empirically measurable. I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that claiming that transubstantiation is merely a symbolic transformation amounts to heresy as far as the vast majority of Christians (e.g., Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) are concerned. But it’s certainly doesn’t extend to claiming that atoms are being shifted around.

    And I don’t pretend to know where the boundary exists, but Christians are hardly alone in regarding metaphysical notions as important. Many Americans would be hard pressed to tell you how many human rights can dance on the head of a pin, but they’re 100% sure they possess these metaphysical entities in abundance, more with each passing generation.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    OK, so by "metaphysical" you mean "not empirically measurable?"

    Maybe the word "mystical" would be a little closer to what you mean?
  259. @Pericles
    The very idea of a visa lottery is bizarre and evil. Does anyone but the USA do this?

    The very idea of a visa lottery is bizarre and evil.

    Yes, but it will exist within a context. In the present, it does no good. Attached to a general cap, though, it would ameliorate one of the worst aspects of the present situation– too many people from each of the top countries and cultures.

    Chemotherapy is also bizarre and evil– until you have cancer. Were a cap on immigration in place, but with no sources favored as in 1921, then a diversity provision, lottery or otherwise, would dilute the immigrant stream.

    If you’re not going to be a majority, at least be a plurality. Their diversity will be your strength. You can still divide and conquer, or at least survive.

    The Cincinnati and Twin Cities metro areas are about equally nonwhite. But all the nonwhites in Cincinnati are black. Thus, you get riots. This doesn’t happen in Minnesota because the nonwhite population is split four or five ways.

  260. @International Jew

    Yoram is a good space alien name.
     
    Yoram was one of the kings of ancient Israel — spelled Jehoram in the King James Bible. Yoram is how it's pronounced in Hebrew — יוֹרָם

    A lot of given names people think are modern Israeli coinages, are actually biblical or mishnaic. They're just less well-known in the west. This is in part thanks to the decline in biblical literacy among both Christians and Jews in the west.

    You see a similar phenomenon among Mexican immigrants in the US: they draw their kids' names from a smaller set than the one familiar to Mexican Mexicans.

    African American names likewise reflect a decline in literary sophistication, unfortunately from a low level to begin with.

    Trust me, Yoram doesn't sound like a space alien name to a Hebrew speaker. (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)

    (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)

    How do you perform a bris on a man of steel?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    He has to perform it on himself, with his teeth.
  261. @Reg Cæsar

    (Now the names of Superman and his father (Jorel and Kalel) do have a certain biblical sound thanks to the theophoric -el suffix, and they were both, technically, Jewish space aliens.)
     
    How do you perform a bris on a man of steel?

    He has to perform it on himself, with his teeth.

  262. @tomv
    Of course, culture and history play a role, but to the extent that ethnocentrism is at all heritable (and practically all traits are more or less) then so must genetics. It's not either-or. The two can actually work together.

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.

    tomv wrote to me:

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.

    Interesting hypothesis. I wonder if anyone has any insight as to how likely it is to be true.

    I should probably explain why I do not just assume it is true: For a long time, Chinese have used chopsticks. [Fill in similar chain of reasoning.] Therefore, Chinese are genetically adapted to use chopsticks. Or to take an even more absurd example (stolen from Shaw’s Saint Joan), the English tendency to swear “God damn!” shows that the English have a gene for “God-damnedness”! Obviously, increasingly bizarre examples could be multiplied ad infinitum.

    I do agree that a trait that might be called “clannishness” is more likely to have a genetic component than a trait for “chopstickiness” or “Goddamnedness.”

    But, the point is that we only have so many genes and genes cannot actually control (or even strongly influence) everything: almost certainly some traits are overwhelmingly cultural rather than genetic.

    So, how can we tell if your hypothesis is true?

    • Replies: @Roger Sweeny
    You might be interested in Robert Plomin's Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are (2018). It doesn't really live up to the subtitle but is largely about "hereditability". For the last several decades, Plomin has been The Man in twin and adoption studies. One of his themes is that most traits (e.g., intelligence) are affected by hundreds of genes, thus most traits are a continuum.
  263. @Lot
    “Mischling Goddess Lehmann”

    https://splicetoday.imgix.net/uploads/posts/photos/23430/claire_lehmann.jpg

    Goddess, yes. Source for semi-jew claim?

    Eh, I find Jewish women very attractive. The people saying she doesn’t look at all Jewish haven’t been around many attractive Jewish women.

  264. @HA
    "I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false."

    Ah, and there we have it; there's the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn't begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini's claims.

    So even though you continue to insist you can't see the difference, that is evidently just blowhard bluster on your part. To the extent you want to continue to THINK you haven't just dug yourself in deeper, feel free to do so. I know better.

    As for the rest of what you wrote -- about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that's just more tangential smoke-blowing. Believing that the cosmos rests on a giant turtle strikes me as a belief far more absurd (precisely because it is not just metaphysical) than any number of doctrines that have replaced them. Under your theory, the absurdity should have actually enhanced its survival. It didn't. Indeed, the cosmic turtle went out of favor long before we were flying people to the moon. In other words, you're wrong again. To the extent that blatantly idiotic pontification such yours is typical of what follows when people discard Christianity, that, I suspect, will do far more to ensure its survival than any inherent absurdity of transubstantiation.

    HA wrote to me:

    Ah, and there we have it; there’s the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn’t begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini’s claims.

    First of all, I certainly cannot see how Saini’s claims are different: what “recourse to physics or empirical measurements” could possibly prove she is wrong???

    None at all.

    She is guilty of a simple error of logic: she seems to think that because there are not sharp differences between races, therefore race does not exist. Everyone knows that that is silly.

    And, of course, same thing for transubstantiaition.

    Look: “blood” refers to stuff that can course through artieries and veins and bring oxygen to various parts of the body and that contains erythrocytes (red blood cells), platelets, plasma, various chemicals dissolved in the plasam, etc.

    So, where are the platelets in “consecrated” wine? “Metaphysical” platelets perhaps? Erythrocytes? The standard components of plasma?

    They’re not there.

    No one thinks they are there. No one thinks that “consecrated” wine really contains “metaphysical” erythrocytes and “metaphysical”platelets that just happen to be undetectable physically.

    The whole idea that the “consecrated” wine is really (“metaphysically”) blood comes from a time when people did not know what blood actually is.

    But, in the twenty-first century, if you want to call something “blood” that has no red blood cells, no platelets, no plasma, etc., you are just playing silly games with words.

    And everyone knows that.

    Everyone knows it is simply using ideas (or, in this case, empty verbiage) as a badge of group identity.

    You keep using the word “physics” and referring to “emprical measurements” as if I am trying to make any sort of point using those words. But, I am not. You are the one obsessed with contrasting the words “physical” and “metaphysical,” as if “metaphysical” is a magical word that turns nonsense into sense.

    But it isn’t: nonsense labeled “metaphysical” is still just plain old nonsense.

    Yes, I happen to be a physicist, but any normal adult — an accountant, a truck driver, a biologist, etc. — could make my point without referring to physics at all.

    Our exchange really has made my point in a stunning way: no one is going to think you have made any kind of case at all that consecrated wine is really blood, except for those, like you, who feel obligated to assent to that claim to prove their loyalty to a group.

  265. @HA
    "I just think what you are defending is obviously (and bizarrely!) false."

    Ah, and there we have it; there's the difference. You THINK they are false. You did not prove them. You did not make recourse to physics or empirical measurements to settle them because no one was talking about physical transformation in the first place. You (and anyone else, for that matter) wouldn't begin to know how to use physics to settle them. Not so with regard to Saini's claims.

    So even though you continue to insist you can't see the difference, that is evidently just blowhard bluster on your part. To the extent you want to continue to THINK you haven't just dug yourself in deeper, feel free to do so. I know better.

    As for the rest of what you wrote -- about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that's just more tangential smoke-blowing. Believing that the cosmos rests on a giant turtle strikes me as a belief far more absurd (precisely because it is not just metaphysical) than any number of doctrines that have replaced them. Under your theory, the absurdity should have actually enhanced its survival. It didn't. Indeed, the cosmic turtle went out of favor long before we were flying people to the moon. In other words, you're wrong again. To the extent that blatantly idiotic pontification such yours is typical of what follows when people discard Christianity, that, I suspect, will do far more to ensure its survival than any inherent absurdity of transubstantiation.

    HA wrote to me:

    As for the rest of what you wrote — about how more absurdity makes a claim more likely to survive, that’s just more tangential smoke-blowing.

    That’s not what I said. What I indicated was that when the purpose of a belief is to prove your loyalty to a group because of the belief’s absurdity, then the absurdity can actually be a plus.

    The problem Saini has is that her beliefs claim to rest on science, and ongoing advances in science make them increasingly silly.

    But, as you have emphasized again and again, you will never accept any scientific test of your absurd belief in transubstantiation. Your belief is still fading, even among your fellow believers: despite your protestations to the contrary, modern knowledge of blood makes your belief more than slightly silly. Indeed, I have had a bit of trouble finding many Catholics who really still believe in it unreservedly. (Which makes you a rare find indeed, HA!)

    But, still, our exchange here shows that your belief is a bit more absurd than Saini’s and it has indeed survived a longer time.

  266. @PhysicistDave
    tomv wrote to me:

    Jews have lived as diasporas for a long time. The ones less genetically predisposed to stay with the tribe had plenty of reasons and opportunities to leave and did do so. With the weaker phenotypes thus boiled off, the remaining gene pool becomes more ethnocentric over time.
     
    Interesting hypothesis. I wonder if anyone has any insight as to how likely it is to be true.

    I should probably explain why I do not just assume it is true: For a long time, Chinese have used chopsticks. [Fill in similar chain of reasoning.] Therefore, Chinese are genetically adapted to use chopsticks. Or to take an even more absurd example (stolen from Shaw's Saint Joan), the English tendency to swear "God damn!" shows that the English have a gene for "God-damnedness"! Obviously, increasingly bizarre examples could be multiplied ad infinitum.

    I do agree that a trait that might be called "clannishness" is more likely to have a genetic component than a trait for "chopstickiness" or "Goddamnedness."

    But, the point is that we only have so many genes and genes cannot actually control (or even strongly influence) everything: almost certainly some traits are overwhelmingly cultural rather than genetic.

    So, how can we tell if your hypothesis is true?

    You might be interested in Robert Plomin’s Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are (2018). It doesn’t really live up to the subtitle but is largely about “hereditability”. For the last several decades, Plomin has been The Man in twin and adoption studies. One of his themes is that most traits (e.g., intelligence) are affected by hundreds of genes, thus most traits are a continuum.

  267. @HA
    "Hmmm…by “metaphysical” do you mean, more or less, “symbolic?

    No, in this case I mean it not empirically measurable. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that claiming that transubstantiation is merely a symbolic transformation amounts to heresy as far as the vast majority of Christians (e.g., Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) are concerned. But it's certainly doesn't extend to claiming that atoms are being shifted around.

    And I don't pretend to know where the boundary exists, but Christians are hardly alone in regarding metaphysical notions as important. Many Americans would be hard pressed to tell you how many human rights can dance on the head of a pin, but they're 100% sure they possess these metaphysical entities in abundance, more with each passing generation.

    OK, so by “metaphysical” you mean “not empirically measurable?”

    Maybe the word “mystical” would be a little closer to what you mean?

  268. @Autochthon
    Quite so! Why, I've known it ever since that magical day when I was yet a boy and our dog a had a litter of kittens....

  269. @Jack D

    They don’t call Hindos the Jews of the subcontinent for nothing
     
    They don't call them that at ALL. That makes no sense. In the subcontinent, Hindus are the majority race. Now there have been times and places (e.g. colonial E. Africa) where overseas Indians acted as a market dominant minority and you could have justly said "Indians are the Jews of East Africa". But, market dominant minorities (not just Jews) breed resentment among lower IQ populations everywhere and the Indians of E. Africa are mostly gone - expelled.

    Indian intelligence seems to be more like Jewish intelligence than Chinese intelligence in that it is more evenly divided between the verbal and mathematical sphere, but it's really hard to compare the tiny # of Jews to the billions of Indians or Chinese in their home countries - quantity has its own quality.

    It has nothing to do with percentage of population, and everything to do with strategy and tactics. Obsequious “friendliness” masking a deep-seated contempt is only one outward manifestation.

    I refer you to Tobias Langdon’s article on Boris Johnson’s recent ascent to PM (https://www.unz.com/article/a-government-of-grovelling-goys%5D for further illumination.

  270. @Reg Cæsar
    Steve sent me to one site with "Consanguinity" in its name. There was one study that showed that among Palestinians, 16% of Christian marriages and 29% of Moslem ones were consanguine. Figure in, too, that the Christian mating pool is much smaller.

    This was the only direct Christian/Islamic comparison I could find. But 16% was on the high end of one group, and 29% on the low end for the other.

    The Maronites are in communion with Rome, but wouldn't be held to that church's degree-of-relation regulations any more than to priestly celibacy. They probably have their own set of rules, though.

    Protestants were less picky about this, but still had limits Second-cousin marriages weren't rare in the American colonies, but first-person ones certainly were.

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