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Silicon Valley Adventuress Plays the Rape Card at Stanford and UVA
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As I’ve been pointing out for awhile, the weak version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis — that our vocabularies influence how hard or easy it is for us to recognize patterns of reality — offers an insight into a lot of recent feminist brouhahas, especially in Silicon Valley. Worldlier cultures than ours recognized that great concentrations of wealth and power, especially in the hands of more unworldly men, attract a certain type of woman formerly known as the adventuress.

In the New York Times Magazine, Emily Bazelon goes over the shocking charges made by a 21-year-old Stanford student and former professional model that she and a 29-year-old Silicon Valley entrepreneur had had sex in their luxury hotel room in Rome, and then in numerous other upscale locations before they broke up after many months. But looking back, she realizes now it was all rape Rape RAPE, and Stanford, pursuant to the Obama Administration’s 2011 Dear Colleague letter on lowering the standards in sexual assault charges, had better make her rich ex-boyfriend’s life hell for her.

While there’s no objective evidence that the bad guy in this story did anything very bad; at least, unlike Haven Monahan, ringmaster of the fraternity initiation gang rape on broken glass at UVA, he exists.

Screenshot 2015-02-11 15.37.25So, the never say the news media aren’t making progress!

Bazelon’s article slowly gets around to insinuating that the story told by ex-model Clougherty and her mother Anne was basically a scam. The key witness is Clougherty’s former friend Jane:

In the months after Jane [the friend] helped Clougherty [the ex-model] break up with Lonsdale [the rich sap], she says that she watched with increasing unease as Clougherty’s accusations mounted, from emotional abuse to rape. “In March 2014, she texted me that she considered herself a ‘sex slave’ during her relationship with Joe,” Jane wrote in her statement. “This is far, far beyond anything that she ever said about the relationship when it was happening or for a long time afterward. It also made no sense in light of her clear enthusiasm about the relationship.”

Jane told me by phone that the breaking point in her friendship with Clougherty came when Stanford began the second investigation of Lonsdale. Jane says she thought the investigation was not warranted and told Clougherty that she would not talk to Pope. Clougherty sent her three texts in April 2014: “Hey, all the investigators need to know is that you witnessed my escape from Joe and saw him pounding on the steering wheel.” “Did you really decline to speak with them?” “I don’t understand, I thought you’d support me.” On the night of the break up, Anne [Cloughtery’s mother] and Jane [the friend] were sitting in the wine bar waiting for Clougherty. They saw Lonsdale drive up with Clougherty. In Anne’s account, she and Jane could see Lonsdale pounding on the steering wheel. Jane jumped up and went outside to knock on the window of the car and make sure Clougherty was O.K.

Jane, though, told me that “the conversation in the car looked completely normal.” She added: “I didn’t go outside. She came in, and I thought, Great! She’s fine, and it’s over.” She gave a short, bitter laugh. “They asked me to lie, and I said no. Ellie yelled at me over the phone.” She gave another short laugh. “She hung up on me after five years of helping her through all her life issues and crises, all the calls from Anne, ‘Will you look after Ellie?’ All of that, only to be put to the side when I won’t do what they want me to do.”

Bazelon adds an amusing coda:

Clougherty is currently a student at the University of Virginia… After Rolling Stone published its story of a lurid fraternity gang rape in November, Clougherty and Anne [her mother] arranged a meeting with the university president, Teresa Sullivan. On the day before Thanksgiving [November 26, 2014, the day after I began commenting on Richard Bradley’s posting expressing skepticism about Rolling Stone’s shattered glass story], they spent a couple of hours sitting in front of a fire at Sullivan’s home, drinking hot chocolate and talking about the effects of trauma. Clougherty gave Sullivan a beaded bracelet she had made and was thrilled when Sullivan mentioned the gift in a major speech on campus the following week, calling Clougherty the survivor of a “brutal assault inflicted on her at another university.”

Here’s the relevant paragraph from the speech UVA president Teresa Sullivan gave on December 1, 2014, the day the mainstream media started to pick up on my November 29, 2014 link to Richard Bradley’s blog:

On my wrist today I am wearing a bracelet that was given to me last week by a rape survivor. We talked for nearly two hours about a brutal assault inflicted on her at another university. I have three takeaways from that conversation. First, rape can destroy lives. She is strong and resilient and rebuilding her life, but it has taken her full-time effort, the constant effort of her family, and the support of therapists to put her life back together. Second, rape is not about sex. Her rape was about domination, anger, isolating your victim, and then making her believe that if she ever talks, something even worse will befall her. Third, rape is a national problem – it happened at this young woman’s college, but it also happens in the military, the workplace, and our high schools. Now our university has been placed at the center of this crisis. We will not shrink from it. We will lead. I will make periodic reports to the community on what we are doing, and you can hold me accountable for our efforts.

So not only was the primary subject of President Sullivan’s speech — Haven Monahan’s gang rape on broken glass — bogus, so was her spotlighted example: the Stanford coed being raped month after month by the zillionaire at five star hotels.

As I wrote back in December:

Attractive women tend to have fewer problems than unattractive ones, but when our society, starting with the White House, relentlessly encourages reasonably attractive women to proclaim themselves victims … watch out. People are hardwired to like and believe attractive young women, so it’s pretty easy to be an adventuress, and they can wreak a lot of havoc.

Chris Rock reflects in Top Five: anything you do with a woman that doesn’t end in you marrying her is, from her point of view, just wasting her time.

By the way, Emily Bazelon is, I would imagine, an old friend of Hanna Rosin from Slate, which Rosin’s husband David Plotz long edited. When Rosin’s old friend from The New Republic, Jonathan Chait, attacked political correctness a couple of weeks ago, I suggested that what we’re seeing is a split among the Former Friends of Stephen Glass.

Glass’s old college buddy Sabrina Rubin Erdely took away the lesson from the Stephen Glass scandal that it’s pretty easy to get away with stuff as long as you let a self-purported witness make stuff up for you rather than make it all up by yourself the way Glass did.

The UVA hoax, in contrast, seems to have gotten Glass’s old pals Rosin and Chait (and their friends like Emily Bazelon and Emily Yoffe) worried about the left of center’s re-descent back into mindless credulity.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Sapir-Whorf 
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  1. One of the joys of Sailer is how he keeps alive old concepts like “disintrestedness”and “adventuress”, that would otherwise become archaisms, accelerating the descent into mass stupidity..

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Yes,adventuress.Very popular term among hip hop artists.
  2. If Hollywood hasn’t warped their sense of reality, the nightly news has.

  3. they spent a couple of hours sitting in front of a fire at Sullivan’s home, drinking hot chocolate and talking about the effects of trauma

    Reporter couldn’t help but to resort to Liberal boilerplate. Sort of like Valley Girls and their usage of “like.”

  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Meh. Neither this “model” (ooooh what a big deal — a neighbor’s wife once told me about taking her daughter to S.F. to “model” for some clothing store catalog, pics probably reprinted exactly once, for the daughter to have & brag about — try being more worldly, Sailer) or U.Va. catfisherwoman are adventuresses. This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM. Give em an opening and they take it. Let’s not feed their adolescent egos even more with comparisons to Mata Hari and Pamela Harriman. BTW you really won’t let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: “The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/the Rev. Wright story/the Iraq war, etc. etc.” You could do like the Taco Bell ad where they quoted random Ronald McDonalds, except your testimonials could be from “Dave Brooks” and “Frank Fuyomomma”

    • Replies: @Trumpenprole

    This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM.
     
    That's not normal behavior, are you insane?

    ...you really won’t let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: “The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/...
     
    you didn't notice how this story ties in to the previous story?
    , @Pat Casey
    Well, whatever you want to call those women of the world, their careers are not being abetted by a merely female-pandering MSM. They're being abetted by females in the media who want to talk about rape victims a lot, probably for the same reason they want to read about rape victims who fall in love with their rapists a lot, and apparently fantasize about being raped a lot. Basically women think about being raped all the time, and since its on the same spectrum of emotion for them as having your heart broken, females in general empathize with the victims and don't distinguish types of rape. It has certainly had a sort of tabloid effect, and come to think of it, aren't adventuresses what make the tabloids?
    , @Jack D
    It's not Steve's fault that we live in an age of mental midgets. It's like what Gloria Swanson says in Sunset Boulevard when told she used to be a big star - "I AM big, it's the pictures that got small!". Nowadays the pictures have shrunken to fit on an iPhone and instead of great novels we have tweets.

    Steve is not the one who is tying the U Va (non)rape to this (non)rape - that was done by the president of U Va herself. I would agree with you that it's utterly ridiculous to connect an imaginary rape in Virginia with a failed romance in California, and if Steve had done it, you could call him out on it, but he didn't, it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted "victim" (or is it "survivor"?) from whom we should all learn important lessons (THREE important lessons, just as in any good fable), just as the young of an earlier age learned from the tribulations of Saints Perpetua and Felicity or young Soviets learned from the heroic labor of Stakhanov.

    We have always expected young'uns to be excitable, to fall victim to the trends of the moment, to be easily misled by charlatans. But it's a new development when this type of naive credulity extends to the very top. I would like to be cynical and say that the people in charge are not that dumb, that they know damn well that they are talking to an adventuress and not a rape victim and that they are using her for their own purposes, but I don't think so. As Steve says, these are people who have been deprived of the very vocabulary needed to analyze the situation and are only capable of framing it in familiar terms. Someone smarter would nevertheless sense that something was rotten, even if they didn't quite have the word for it, but Pres. Sullivan isn't that someone. Idiocracy is here, now.

  5. “Worldlier cultures than ours . . .”

    Thanks again Steve for helping me clarify my own thoughts. The childishness and provincialism of our culture is astounding. It’s as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    "It’s as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls."
     
    This began to happen in the prosperous, postwar America that was the 1950s, with its rock and roll teen market culture and accompanying "beat" pseudointellectualism. The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV. Those teen girls grew up to influence us all.

    As with dada art before it, we have not yet awakened from its silly dream. It is part of the reason we have descended to where we are now.

    We ARE a culture of adolescence, ruled by the youth market.

  6. Steve Mailer is one of the most insightful journalists of our time. As much as he credits me for blog material, trust me, I get 2 column topics back for every 1 sent over the transom

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Oh, well done.
    , @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    That's Norman Mailer's brother Steve right?
  7. Her mom was a type-A personality who built her own business, sold it, then bitched at how the buyers were “intimidated by strong women” (eyeroll). Took her daughter to start modelling at THIRTEEN. Hm… modelling agencies… not the skeeziest career choice for a 13-year old, no. She used to have a website with her modelling photos, some of them were those creepy semi-porny “fashion shoots” — starting at THIRTEEN. Thirteen, wearing revealing clothes, heels, dressing like she was 22, what could go wrong?

    Opportunities from modelling contacts, a pushy type-A helicopter mom. No way could she have been out of her own depth at Stanford, being pushed into a technical degree she may not have had the aptitude to do on her own and been flailing wildly.

    Eating disorders. Therapy.

    Needs attention. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    So she's like one of those pageant moms? The moms who push their young daughters into pageants and modeling and stuff?
    , @bomag
    Needs attention...

    Yeah, this strikes me as bragging: "Look at me! I'm hot! A billionaire wants me; but I don't want him all that much; so he resorts to raping me; 'cause I'm so hot."
    , @Dan
    Almost certainly the girl has borderline personality disorder. Lots of fun to be around...for awhile. Then the drama starts. High prevalence of eating disorders, self mutilation, suicide. Non-validating parents precipitate the condition.
  8. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/02/palantir-cofounder-joe-lonsdale-rape-lawsuit.html

    The comments at liberal NY Magazine ain’t buying her story. 108 comments there.

    California2009 8 days ago

    I know both Ellie and Joe personally. I can tell you, unequivocally, that this entire charade is bs and is Ellie’s revenge on Joe when he dumped her two years ago. She didn’t get her dream wedding and house and kids and rich life she wanted. Joe left her and she got pissed. So she’s revenge suing him for the divorce settlement she never got to have.

    Ellie is mentally ill and so is her mother. The girl needs serious psych meds. Joe treated her like a queen. They were in love. Everyone around them saw it.

    Joe is a powerful guy but a sweet and kind person too. He’s family oriented and hard working. Ellie is a cowardly b**ch just out to get her 15 min of fame and her big pay out. Gold digger anyone?

    I hope for joes sake that this nightmare ends. He deserves better. He’s built companies and employed hundreds of people. Such a shame that Ellie will stop at nothing to hurt his reputation.

    Again, unequivocally, joe is not guilty of ANYTHING being alleged here. Ellie is a monster. Horrible things is right.

  9. >>> The lawsuit states that she “wrote him numerous emails and love letters to let him know how much she cared about him in the hope that it would end the abuse.”

    Parenthesizing the most damning evidence against her case. Not so clever. Any reasonable judge or jury would see right through this ploy.

  10. Somehow, I think that divorce court has always been how the hoi polloi has learned how the .0001% actually lives and works. I, for one, welcome our new adventuress overlords and the information they can obtain for us.

  11. @yaqub the mad scientist
    One of the joys of Sailer is how he keeps alive old concepts like "disintrestedness"and "adventuress", that would otherwise become archaisms, accelerating the descent into mass stupidity..

    Yes,adventuress.Very popular term among hip hop artists.

  12. As much as I strongly approve of the idea of reviving the term “adventuress,” I see the adventuress as sort of a romantic figure, kind of a “steampunk” Diana Rigg, or whatnot. Some lying, conniving, black-mailing slut, who goes around bedding rich dudes so she can sue them for offenses that never actually transpired, isn’t an adventuress.

    I would like to give my frank opinion about such women, but I’m not sure it would meet the public commenting standards of a reputable (if controversial) website such as this.

  13. Trumpenprole [AKA "Pseudonomous"] says:
    @Anonymous
    Meh. Neither this "model" (ooooh what a big deal -- a neighbor's wife once told me about taking her daughter to S.F. to "model" for some clothing store catalog, pics probably reprinted exactly once, for the daughter to have & brag about -- try being more worldly, Sailer) or U.Va. catfisherwoman are adventuresses. This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM. Give em an opening and they take it. Let's not feed their adolescent egos even more with comparisons to Mata Hari and Pamela Harriman. BTW you really won't let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: "The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/the Rev. Wright story/the Iraq war, etc. etc." You could do like the Taco Bell ad where they quoted random Ronald McDonalds, except your testimonials could be from "Dave Brooks" and "Frank Fuyomomma"

    This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM.

    That’s not normal behavior, are you insane?

    …you really won’t let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: “The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/…

    you didn’t notice how this story ties in to the previous story?

  14. What’s the difference between an adventuress and a gold digger?

    SWPL men are too squeamish to publicly use either term, but blacks have at least been able to keep “gold digger” in the culture.

    • Replies: @lydia
    What’s the difference between an adventuress and a gold digger?

    Read the first chapter (or just the first page) of The Outfit by Richard Stark [Donald E. Westlake]. She's already rich (atonement gifts from parents); she just wants a little underworld danger to go with her rough sex.
  15. @Anonymous
    Steve Mailer is one of the most insightful journalists of our time. As much as he credits me for blog material, trust me, I get 2 column topics back for every 1 sent over the transom

    Oh, well done.

  16. OT, Bob Dylan comes out firmly on the side of nurture:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-bob-dylans-complete-riveting-musicares-speech-20150209

    ‘If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you’d have written “How many roads must a man walk down?” too.’

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    OT, Bob Dylan comes out firmly on the side of nurture:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-bob-dylans-complete-riveting-musicares-speech-20150209

    ‘If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you’d have written “How many roads must a man walk down?” too.’


    What blithering nonsense. The ability to write rock music incorporating tropes from Old Weird American folk music is clearly genetic.
  17. Am I the only one who doesn’t think this woman is particularly attractive?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Am I the only one who doesn’t think this woman is particularly attractive?
     
    Nope.

    Not to my eye a particularly attractive woman--something off about her face--particularly at an age when when girls are pumped chock full of estrogen, 95% of the non-fatties are appealing and the truly cute ones are stunning works of art.

    But she's blond and has the long-skinny-heroin-addict look that seems to be popular (with gay men).
    , @interesting
    there is nothing worse than a cute child that grows up to be just average that was a "model" during those cute years and then reality hits......and we're seeing those results now.

    she's average at best.......that kinda reminds me of that line in "American beauty" .....there's nothing worse in life than being ordinary

  18. The dog that isn’t barking: that “adventuresses” don’t try this with: Rap moguls, Basketball players, big time actors, big time politicians, etc. Monica Lewinsky is still “in love” with Bill Clinton. Would do anything for him, really.

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha. I’d imagine the woman is at least as angry at having to have sex with a beta male as anything else.

    Plenty of dominant Alphas have done many things with women, and have never had rape allegations.

    • Replies: @Chief Seattle
    I must be reading this blog too much - I can recognize Whiskey's comments by the second paragraph.
    , @Twinkie

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha.
     
    Maybe in a ghetto. In a civilized society, a violent, unpredictable person is usually a criminal or a psychopath (or both).

    There is such a thing as a calm, quiet dominance. My grandfather was very well-educated and was a consummate gentleman, and he never raised his voice. But he had this "presence" and everyone was afraid of him. When I was a child, I saw him overawe powerful officials in his country with his presence.

    I don't care for all this "alpha male" talk (I think only people with chips on their shoulders go on and on about what makes an alpha male, with nary an idea of what makes for a real one), but if I ever saw an alpha male as such, my grandfather with his quiet, presence was one.
    , @Marty T
    Remember the Kobe rape accusation?
  19. you’ve knocked it out of the park with this one steve. brilliantly done, and the next post as well. jesus, your country is going fucking insane. the new AUMF is out as well, allowing perpetual war anywhere anytime, against a nebulous ill defined enemy.

  20. A wise man once noted – a pussy hair will tow a battleship. He didn’t say anything about towing the battleship around Europe. But I have no doubt a hair from certain pussy could do so. God Bless America.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    A wise man once noted – a pussy hair will tow a battleship. He didn’t say anything about towing the battleship around Europe. But I have no doubt a hair from certain pussy could do so.
     
    Wow. You've managed to fuse Homer with Homer Simpson.
  21. @asininereality
    Her mom was a type-A personality who built her own business, sold it, then bitched at how the buyers were "intimidated by strong women" (eyeroll). Took her daughter to start modelling at THIRTEEN. Hm... modelling agencies... not the skeeziest career choice for a 13-year old, no. She used to have a website with her modelling photos, some of them were those creepy semi-porny "fashion shoots" --- starting at THIRTEEN. Thirteen, wearing revealing clothes, heels, dressing like she was 22, what could go wrong?

    Opportunities from modelling contacts, a pushy type-A helicopter mom. No way could she have been out of her own depth at Stanford, being pushed into a technical degree she may not have had the aptitude to do on her own and been flailing wildly.

    Eating disorders. Therapy.

    Needs attention. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE!

    So she’s like one of those pageant moms? The moms who push their young daughters into pageants and modeling and stuff?

    • Replies: @asininereality
    I believe it was the case that at some social function some man in the industry remarked that her daughter could be a model. She thought this would be one of the many "opportunities" (in addition to music, sports, setting up charitable foundations for Haiti, etc etc etc) that would enhance her daughter's academic and career prospects.

    A high-class high-fashion-model mom. (The mother was exceptionally attractive when she was younger, as well, so perhaps she was living vicariously).

    So basically, yes, a pageant mom, but I think she would think that is too trashy of a comparison.
  22. @asininereality
    Her mom was a type-A personality who built her own business, sold it, then bitched at how the buyers were "intimidated by strong women" (eyeroll). Took her daughter to start modelling at THIRTEEN. Hm... modelling agencies... not the skeeziest career choice for a 13-year old, no. She used to have a website with her modelling photos, some of them were those creepy semi-porny "fashion shoots" --- starting at THIRTEEN. Thirteen, wearing revealing clothes, heels, dressing like she was 22, what could go wrong?

    Opportunities from modelling contacts, a pushy type-A helicopter mom. No way could she have been out of her own depth at Stanford, being pushed into a technical degree she may not have had the aptitude to do on her own and been flailing wildly.

    Eating disorders. Therapy.

    Needs attention. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE!

    Needs attention…

    Yeah, this strikes me as bragging: “Look at me! I’m hot! A billionaire wants me; but I don’t want him all that much; so he resorts to raping me; ’cause I’m so hot.”

  23. @Anonymous
    Steve Mailer is one of the most insightful journalists of our time. As much as he credits me for blog material, trust me, I get 2 column topics back for every 1 sent over the transom

    That’s Norman Mailer’s brother Steve right?

  24. This is what I mean about facial phrenology.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    " Wide, short faces could indicate aggression in men and women"

    https://royalsociety.org/news/2014/Wide-short-faces-could-indicate-more-aggression-in-men-and-women/
  25. @Svigor
    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screenshot-2015-02-11-15.37.25.png

    This is what I mean about facial phrenology.

    ” Wide, short faces could indicate aggression in men and women”

    https://royalsociety.org/news/2014/Wide-short-faces-could-indicate-more-aggression-in-men-and-women/

  26. @Whiskey
    The dog that isn't barking: that "adventuresses" don't try this with: Rap moguls, Basketball players, big time actors, big time politicians, etc. Monica Lewinsky is still "in love" with Bill Clinton. Would do anything for him, really.

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha. I'd imagine the woman is at least as angry at having to have sex with a beta male as anything else.

    Plenty of dominant Alphas have done many things with women, and have never had rape allegations.

    I must be reading this blog too much – I can recognize Whiskey’s comments by the second paragraph.

  27. @Anonymous
    So she's like one of those pageant moms? The moms who push their young daughters into pageants and modeling and stuff?

    I believe it was the case that at some social function some man in the industry remarked that her daughter could be a model. She thought this would be one of the many “opportunities” (in addition to music, sports, setting up charitable foundations for Haiti, etc etc etc) that would enhance her daughter’s academic and career prospects.

    A high-class high-fashion-model mom. (The mother was exceptionally attractive when she was younger, as well, so perhaps she was living vicariously).

    So basically, yes, a pageant mom, but I think she would think that is too trashy of a comparison.

  28. Her eyes are too far apart. Is she a distant relative of Michele Malkin and Jesse Jackson? Something that runs in the family?

  29. She doesn’t have a wide, short face. If anything, she strikes me as the classic long-headed type. But that face screams trouble. She looks like an actress, adventuress, a femme fatale. At least, in that shot. G**gle image search served up more normal-looking pics. ‘Course, Lonsdale’s face is worse. He could make a living in Hollywood as a villain.

  30. I’ve just read as much of the NYT article as I could stand. I feel embarrassed for the young woman, who is crazier than an outhouse rat, and everyone at the NYT involved in producing and publishing it. This kind of stuff just boggles my mind.

    Being homosexual myself, there are times when I stand back and look at the heterosexual milieu with utter amazement. Yep, I know about throwing stones while living in glass houses, so I promise not to toss too big a rock too hard. But if there’s one advantage to being gay, it’s the ability to stand apart from your world, while still being very much a part of it just because of the numbers and the culture. And just like, say, the gay bathhouse phenomenon doesn’t exactly show my tribe at its best, the things we see among our heterosexual brethren sometimes are beyond unreal.

    Come on, folks, you’re the majority, and not by a small margin. However you want to slice Kinsey’s oft-misunderstood numbers, your tribe is 10 to 30 times the size of mine, depending on just how you want to define it. And you put up with this? Why, for chrissakes? Same goes for the current fashionsta feminist crap about campus rape. Forget about the UVA circus for a second; the outrageous crap being thrown around would be outrageous even if that tale from “Jackie” had been true.

    It occurs to me that the people with the most sexual freedom these days are gays. For the moment, we’re like the U.S. Navy. We got where we want, when we want, and do pretty damn well what we feel like doing, with some tragic exceptions that prove the rule. Your tribe? God almighty, the tangled web, and getting more so all the time.

    I know that much of the audience here doesn’t like that state of affairs as it pertains to gays, and I’d be the first to acknowledge the downsides, starting with STDs and moving on through the psychological consequences of too much promiscuity. I’ve been around for several decades, and I think that, in general, my tribe is slowly become more domesticated, but not so domesticated that we’ve got to put up with even a fraction of the horses*** that at least some heterosexual men do.

    Let me state it bluntly: If a gay man told the tale that this “victim” told, I don’t know of a single gay man who would do anything but laugh. And you know how hard gay men can laugh. We are the toughest audience, and this little show would get canceled after the first night. What a complete, total crock!

    So I suppose this is the time for me to express pity, but I can’t. Gather up your courage and fight back, fellas. We did. Things will get worse before they get better, but if you stick together over time, you will win your freedom back.

    • Replies: @Al Gore Rhythms
    "Your tribe? God almighty, the tangled web, and getting more so all the time"

    With respect, I don't think heterosexuals are a tribe, and the reasons for this in part help to explain why the 'tangled web' that we find ourselves in does not really bear any comparison with the issues that the undoubted 'tribe' of homosexuals (at least in the post-Christian West) may face.

    Tribes exist in relation to other tribes, whereas heterosexuality is the normative state of a society. Think of the qualities of a tribe: a tribe is something that one can withdraw or retreat into. Can one 'withdraw' into heterosexual society? Not really, because heterosexual society surrounds and infuses everything, including homosexual sub-cultures, because homosexuals are the result of heterosexual couplings and families themselves. Hence it is homosexuals that seek to mimic/overthrow/satirise/gain acceptance from/ the normative institutions and culture of heterosexuals in the form of marriage and family, whereas there is very little traffic the other way.

    As I say, all this illustrates why this tangled web is so profound and destructive, and will not easily be untangled: in a civilisational sense, heterosexuality matters more. the desire of men and women to have sex and to have children is clearly the defining and necessary impulse of any society that hopes to perpetuate itself. If men and women are at war with each other then the whole of society, including the children and the elderly, will suffer in a way that society will not if gay men became disillusioned with other gay men. Civilisation has these complex and often arcane structures that have been built over centuries to try and contain and channel the complicated and powerful urges that heterosexual sex and their consequences create: children, competition, war, envy, and paternity must all be tightly hemmed in, constrained and directed through marriage, patriarchy, religion, family, rules, government.

    It isn't really an option for men to just 'laugh' at the behaviour of women and mentally 'walk away' from their problems. Their problems are our problems. We complement each other and define each other, we destroy each other and build each other in ways that I do not think is true for gay men. How can we walk away? Walk away to where? As I said, we have no other tribal sub-grouping to withdraw into. We do not have the luxury of being outsiders of spectators.

    Your tribe needed us to be healthy. It may just be that it wasn't such a smart move for the Queer Tribe (of course there are those homosexuals who do not fit into this category) to seek to undermine the work of centuries of building.
  31. @Let's!
    What's the difference between an adventuress and a gold digger?

    SWPL men are too squeamish to publicly use either term, but blacks have at least been able to keep "gold digger" in the culture.

    What’s the difference between an adventuress and a gold digger?

    Read the first chapter (or just the first page) of The Outfit by Richard Stark [Donald E. Westlake]. She’s already rich (atonement gifts from parents); she just wants a little underworld danger to go with her rough sex.

  32. I need to say the following: My post #31 was not schadenfreude, however it might have come across. To me, what’s happening to heterosexual men on college campuses is an infringement of their sexual freedom, and I don’t like infringements on sexual freedom. The closest I can come to schadenfreude is to whisper, “Now you know how it feels.” But it’s not a state of affairs I’d wish on anyone.

  33. Chris Rock reflects in Top Five: anything you do with a woman that doesn’t end in you marrying her is, from her point of view, just wasting her time.

    I strongly suggest to all my single (male) friends the “Three Date Rule”. If she’s not at least potentially something resembling marriage material, never give her more than three dates. There’s no reason to be wasting each others’ precious time. (Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women, so they’re often blindsided when it arrives).

    • Replies: @Karl
    >>> Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women


    location, location, location

    consider the median US social Security check. Now consider how much spending power that is in a mid-size Province Capitol city in north Thailand or South Philippines or East Indonesia. These are cities where you wouldn't need to leave town to get an appendectomy taken care of, or where one can safely and reliably route the SS money to, or where $20/month will get you 97 channels worth of cable Tv. . IE, a comfortable place to live.

    Now ===visit=== one of those cities, and observe the 70-something western guys who are running soft harems of 22 year olds.

    a McDonalds at breakfast time. That's a good place to spot these guys.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "(Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women, so they’re often blindsided when it arrives)."

    A guy may lose his ability to attract hot 22-year olds, but he's always got value to women in his own approximate age group. Personally, I find hot 22-year olds to be too annoying to deal with, even if could get them (I'm 44, and my last girlfriend was a chubby 29, so I don't kid myself about my ability to attract them...fortunately, I don't really want them). That 29-year old was a psycho disaster. My current girlfriend is my age (18 months older, in fact), and I'm much happier.
  34. In November, five African-American male students were arrested for sexual assault for an incident that occurred at William Paterson University in Paterson, New Jersey. Although all such sexual-assault cases are supposed to be investigated and processed by a special unit of Passaic County, the campus police force hastily submitted criminal charges against the five.

    On the basis of those hasty charges, university president Kathleen Waldron expelled the five summarily and made several inflammatory remarks about them publicly.

    In January, the grand jury heard the evidence and refused to indict any of the students for any crime. Nevertheless, the students remained expelled, waiting for the university’s kangaroo-court proceedings to get underway. In the meantime, Waldron has not apologized for her public remarks.

    Now at least four of the students are initiating a lawsuit against Waldron, her university and her campus police.

    I live near Paterson, so I have been reading the articles published in my local newspaper, The Record. The following is from last Saturday’s issue:

    …. “These young men have to live with being called criminals the rest of their lives,” said Michael J. Epstein, an attorney representing [two of the men] ….

    A Passaic County grand jury voted last month not to indict the men, all students at the university who have been barred from campus since their arrests.

    A spokeswoman for the university said Friday that officials would not comment on legal matters. ….

    The case is bound to trigger debate about whether campus police should independently handle any allegations of sexual assault, among the hardest cases to prosecute, defense attorneys and prosecutors agree. Instead, law enforcement experts say that dedicated sex crimes units, with continued training and detectives available around the clock, are more adept at such investigations.

    “The idea is to have these cases handled by a centralized, specialized unit where experts are trained at the statewide and national level rather than have training for officers in every town or at every college,” said Paul B. Brickfield, a former first assistant prosecutor for Bergen County and longtime defense attorney.

    “How many specialists can you have on a local police force?” Brickfield said. “This case sounds like a complicated factual scenario with multiple defendants that would generally call for special investigative action. It seems there was a rush to judgment.”

    The criminal complaint filed by the campus police alleged that four of the five students put the woman “in a condition of involuntary servitude,” turning off the lights and television and “standing in front of the victim and blocking” her. The teens allegedly conspired to commit sexual assault, according to the complaint.

    In a statement after the arrests, William Paterson President Kathleen M. Waldron expressed concern for the “courageous victim.” Waldron said she was “angry and dismayed that this crime was committed on our campus and allegedly by students.”

    In the notice filed Friday, Epstein said the university, Waldron, campus police and others failed to provide [students] Collick and Williams “with due process.” The notice also argues that university officials “failed to conduct a proper investigation, did not have adequate training and experience to conduct investigations into sexual assaults, failed to contact the Passaic County Prosecutor’s Office immediately so experts on allegations of sexual assault could conduct a proper investigation, issued warrants for Mr. Collick’s arrest without probable cause, and engaged in improper searches and seizures.”

    Epstein said Collick and Williams spent nine days in the Passaic County Jail with the general population, including five days in maximum security and four days in medium security.

    Ron Ricci, an attorney for Latimer, filed a separate notice of intent to sue the university for alleged violations of civil rights, “malicious” prosecution and violations of the state’s law against discrimination. The notice includes Waldron for claims of defamation and libel, Ricci said.

    “We absolutely think there was wrongful conduct,” Ricci said. “It’s egregious,” Epstein said regarding Waldron’s comments. “It’s actionable because she defamed their character and said there was criminal activity.” …..

    When the students were cleared, Waldron released a statement saying the university “has its own student conduct process that is independent of the state’s legal proceedings.” That process, she said, “would continue.”

    “It’s not clear if they are suspended or expelled,” Epstein said. “There has been no hearing.” The students would not participate, he said, given how the case has been handled so far. ….

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/3-william-paterson-students-cleared-in-alleged-sex-assault-file-claim-against-university-others-1.1266354

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    That was worthless. How were they "cleared"?
  35. I’ve known Joe for many years now, and about a month ago he sent me this link with his personal statement:

    http://joelonsdalestatement.com/

    I’ve gleaned many more details from his friends at The Review, but let’s just say… that girl may be a TJ grad, but she’s absolutely insane.

  36. New Reader – Gather up your courage and fight back, fellas. We did.

    No, you didn’t. A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not ‘”fight back” any more than blacks or women did.

    • Replies: @Truth
    "No, you didn’t. A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not ‘”fight back” any more than blacks or women did."

    Yup.
    , @New Reader

    A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not ‘”fight back” any more than blacks or women did.
     
    The same could be said of, say, the French deciding to come to the aid of the colonists, providing critically needed support at the right time. So I guess we can write off all that Valley Forge crap as myth. As for blacks, they in fact did fight for their rights. But it's also true that they received critical help from the Jews who established the NAACP "as part of a project of their own."

    I'm grateful to those who fought for the individual rights of Americans, regardless of the time and regardless of who might have helped -- or frankly, why they might have helped. So the colonists were the beneficiaries of European power politics of the 18th century. Let's raise a toast to European power politics of the 18th century, then.

    That much said, in conversations with the (very) occasional militant gay tribesman I meet here or there (actually, for every militant gay male tribesman there are probably five militant lesbian tribeswomen, which is great but would be even better if they'd back down on the "T" part of GLBT), I take pains to point out that, for all the work and sacrifice made by gays of whatever gender, we wouldn't have secured our rights but for the agreement and assistance of heterosexuals.

    Now, were those heterosexuals acting as part of a plot, either inchoate or tightly organizated, to undermine the West? Well, given that there have been tens of millions of straight supporters out there to one degree or another, I'm sure there are some who were bent on undermining something. (If pure motives are a prerequisite for anything, then there is a very, very, very long list of victories of all kinds that need to be invalidated for lack of pure motives on the part of some combatants.)

    But I think that most heterosexuals who sympathized with or actively helped gay people along the way were acting out of fairness and compassion. Silly me. Oops, I just said "silly." Better butch it up here, eh?

  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Wow.
    The movie Gone Girl seemed pretty over the top when I saw it last fall. Now I’m thinking it should be mandatory viewing for every boy before he goes off to college. It will be for my sons.

    Also, saw somewhere else that Clougherty was anorexic…
    You can say what you want about chunky girls in denial about what a turn-off fat is for men, but there is NOBODY crazier than an anorexic.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    By all means, tell your sons to watch out for psychopaths...women and men. And, to add to your feeling about your sons as they go off to college and beyond; you, and everyone, actually, on Steve's blog should take a refresher look at Hare's Checklist. Spine-tingling, scary shit, and...I stayed away from some people who fit this (mostly in my 20's while I worked in NYC - must say, may have saved my life to sever relationships who fit Hare's 20 characteristics). Psychopaths, Borderlines and Histrionics are still relatively rare to the general population. But...stay away like a plague from them. Some of you, bloggers, may like the book, 'The Psychopath next Door."
  38. Adventuress – polite term for gold digger pushing the boundaries.

    Fashion model – polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.

    Clougherty’s fashion career apparently never really took off so she was reduced to looking for a fat wallet to leech off of by 20.

    Lonsdale almost blew it. That’s the problem with geeks, they grew up only dating average looking gals if they were lucky. So when a very good looking woman comes on to them, it makes them feel like a million dollars and they lose their brains. The guy thinks “trophy wife” material, something to match his stellar rise in Silicon Valley. He should have stuck with the girls from the local Waffle House or one from the secretarial pool with big tatas.

    Luckily Lonsdale bailed in time. I bet Clougherty started exhibiting signs of the “crazy” that scared him off.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Fashion model – polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.
     
    That's a bit over the top, no?

    My wife, while she was a college student at an Ivy League university, did catalog-modeling to make some money to pay bills. Her highly educated and wealthy family actually discouraged it, but since they expected her to pay for at least a part of her education own her own, did not forbid it.

    She wasn't a high-level fashion model. She was and is very beautiful, but has a softer girl-next-door look rather than the sharper (and more idiosyncratic) high fashion, runway look. But catalog modeling was steady and paid better than any campus job.

    My wife also has a doctorate in a STEM field and was a world-class athlete while in school, so she wasn't exactly "a useless woman with no job skills..."

    I know the brainless model bit is a common stereotype, but some of her erstwhile colleagues didn't fit that stereotype either.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Silicon Valley killed off the secretarial pool.
  39. Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must). I have warned them to stay away from ‘borderline ‘, unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always. I have given them the advice and the right books I know that will help them to not just perform sexually, but to understand relationships. In the end, the hottest guy is the guy who knows what bills he needs to pay…and who will take care of him (if in a relationship) and keep paying the bills if he falls ill. Money is just a metaphor for “less anxiety,” as my father told me.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    meant to say, "take care of you." SO funny! However, I would be fine with a gay son.
    , @Twinkie

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).
     
    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a "startup" marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as "us." While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had "startup" marriages).

    When we see other people's "merger" marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.
    , @New Reader

    I have warned them to stay away from ‘borderline ‘, unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always.
     
    Age-old advice: "Never get involved with anyone who's crazier than you are."
  40. @Anonymous
    Wow.
    The movie Gone Girl seemed pretty over the top when I saw it last fall. Now I'm thinking it should be mandatory viewing for every boy before he goes off to college. It will be for my sons.

    Also, saw somewhere else that Clougherty was anorexic...
    You can say what you want about chunky girls in denial about what a turn-off fat is for men, but there is NOBODY crazier than an anorexic.

    By all means, tell your sons to watch out for psychopaths…women and men. And, to add to your feeling about your sons as they go off to college and beyond; you, and everyone, actually, on Steve’s blog should take a refresher look at Hare’s Checklist. Spine-tingling, scary shit, and…I stayed away from some people who fit this (mostly in my 20’s while I worked in NYC – must say, may have saved my life to sever relationships who fit Hare’s 20 characteristics). Psychopaths, Borderlines and Histrionics are still relatively rare to the general population. But…stay away like a plague from them. Some of you, bloggers, may like the book, ‘The Psychopath next Door.”

  41. @Lagertha
    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being "on the right path of what really interests you" has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must). I have warned them to stay away from 'borderline ', unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always. I have given them the advice and the right books I know that will help them to not just perform sexually, but to understand relationships. In the end, the hottest guy is the guy who knows what bills he needs to pay...and who will take care of him (if in a relationship) and keep paying the bills if he falls ill. Money is just a metaphor for "less anxiety," as my father told me.

    meant to say, “take care of you.” SO funny! However, I would be fine with a gay son.

  42. @Whiskey
    The dog that isn't barking: that "adventuresses" don't try this with: Rap moguls, Basketball players, big time actors, big time politicians, etc. Monica Lewinsky is still "in love" with Bill Clinton. Would do anything for him, really.

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha. I'd imagine the woman is at least as angry at having to have sex with a beta male as anything else.

    Plenty of dominant Alphas have done many things with women, and have never had rape allegations.

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha.

    Maybe in a ghetto. In a civilized society, a violent, unpredictable person is usually a criminal or a psychopath (or both).

    There is such a thing as a calm, quiet dominance. My grandfather was very well-educated and was a consummate gentleman, and he never raised his voice. But he had this “presence” and everyone was afraid of him. When I was a child, I saw him overawe powerful officials in his country with his presence.

    I don’t care for all this “alpha male” talk (I think only people with chips on their shoulders go on and on about what makes an alpha male, with nary an idea of what makes for a real one), but if I ever saw an alpha male as such, my grandfather with his quiet, presence was one.

  43. So not only was the primary subject of President Sullivan’s speech — Haven Monahan’s gang rape on broken glass — bogus, so was her spotlighted example: the Stanford coed being raped month after month by the zillionaire at five star hotels.

    She was also wrong here –

    Second, rape is not about sex. Her rape was about domination, anger, isolating your victim

    No. Rape is almost always about sex and the desire to have sex even when the other person wont consent.

    Why do so many feminist women not get that?

    My theory is first, they are lesbians and so horrified by heterosexuality they can’t believe anybody could be motivated by heterosexual feelings. It could ONLY be power domination yada yada.

    Second that these feminists are on the autism spectrum and have a genetic/brain flaw inability to conceive of other people with motives unlike their own unless those motives are those of a monstrous “Other”.

    Third, they are sheep-like idiots who repeat the same lies and misinformation.

    Bottom line to these left feminist – rape claims are always true, rape is only about power/anger/domination never non violent sexual desire and only White men rape.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    No. Rape is almost always about sex and the desire to have sex even when the other person wont consent.

    Why do so many feminist women not get that?
     
    They all "get it". They just don't know that they get it or admit that they get it. The fact that it's about sex is the only thing that differentiates it from any other kind of battery. It's the only thing that could possibly make it special or of interest to feminists.
  44. @rod1963
    Adventuress - polite term for gold digger pushing the boundaries.

    Fashion model - polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.

    Clougherty's fashion career apparently never really took off so she was reduced to looking for a fat wallet to leech off of by 20.

    Lonsdale almost blew it. That's the problem with geeks, they grew up only dating average looking gals if they were lucky. So when a very good looking woman comes on to them, it makes them feel like a million dollars and they lose their brains. The guy thinks "trophy wife" material, something to match his stellar rise in Silicon Valley. He should have stuck with the girls from the local Waffle House or one from the secretarial pool with big tatas.

    Luckily Lonsdale bailed in time. I bet Clougherty started exhibiting signs of the "crazy" that scared him off.

    Fashion model – polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.

    That’s a bit over the top, no?

    My wife, while she was a college student at an Ivy League university, did catalog-modeling to make some money to pay bills. Her highly educated and wealthy family actually discouraged it, but since they expected her to pay for at least a part of her education own her own, did not forbid it.

    She wasn’t a high-level fashion model. She was and is very beautiful, but has a softer girl-next-door look rather than the sharper (and more idiosyncratic) high fashion, runway look. But catalog modeling was steady and paid better than any campus job.

    My wife also has a doctorate in a STEM field and was a world-class athlete while in school, so she wasn’t exactly “a useless woman with no job skills…”

    I know the brainless model bit is a common stereotype, but some of her erstwhile colleagues didn’t fit that stereotype either.

    • Replies: @LMH
    My physics TA at Harvard did modeling on the side as well. She is now a professor of physics and astronomy at a well-regarded university. No sugar daddy, as far as I'm aware.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    My high school math teacher had appeared in Playboy, when she was in college just a very few years earlier.

    Oddly, nobody then made a big deal about it. It was just a confirmed rumor around the school. We teenage boys just whispered to each other when we heard about it, and then searched our fathers' closets to find the issue she was in.

    She was a great math teacher, smart and totally appropriate. She clearly liked math and science. (Sure, sometimes I mentally undressed her during class, but that's what a teenage boy would do with a teacher that pretty anyway. It was just easier for me to do the imagining, since I knew what was under there.)

    I remember how funny it was when my father came home from parent-teacher conferences. He couldn't help but exclaim how pretty my math teacher was! (I'll never know, but it would be really funny if he recognized her.)

    I suppose today that teacher might end up becoming a scandal story in the local TV news, without deserving to be. (Honestly, some things really are more puritanical now than they were for a while. People scream about things they would giggle about and leave alone during those few, open decades that have passed. It's a paradox of our anti-white-male, post-post-war age.)

    In any case, a real stereotype breaker, our Playboy model / math teacher was married to a physicist.

    Smart guys do get the babes sometimes. And some babes are smart girls.

  45. @Lagertha
    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being "on the right path of what really interests you" has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must). I have warned them to stay away from 'borderline ', unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always. I have given them the advice and the right books I know that will help them to not just perform sexually, but to understand relationships. In the end, the hottest guy is the guy who knows what bills he needs to pay...and who will take care of him (if in a relationship) and keep paying the bills if he falls ill. Money is just a metaphor for "less anxiety," as my father told me.

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).

    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a “startup” marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as “us.” While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had “startup” marriages).

    When we see other people’s “merger” marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Nice story Twinkie ...
    ... until you got to
    Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other.

    Seriously, grow a pair.

    Look i agree your path is the best path. If you are going to marry a girl--i.e. devote your life's labor to providing for her and her kids--you should at least get to enjoy her prime years of sexual attractiveness.

    But your wife doesn't need to see all your emails any more than she needs to listen to all your conversations with your friends over a beer. My wife's off somewhere or another with one of her friends, meeting more friends for lunch. I don't need to hear all those hens clucking. She doesn't need to read my emails to my buddies.
    , @Anonymous
    Twinkie confirmed for Japanese.
    , @Anton
    That is so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for you both.
    , @Lagertha
    Your marriage sounds wonderful...similar to my parents who moved several times across the Atlantic in pursuit of their careers. However, it is very unique. The first "real" love of my life died, so I was lucky to have finally met someone I had that connection with and married in my 30's It can take a long time for that "connection" to happen for any people. I don't think anyone should really judge when people should marry since there are so many variables. A good friend of mine married for the 1st time (never connected with anyone earlier - he is extremely shy) in his late 40's...and he is forced to attend all those functions in elementary school these days - wonder if his kids are vaccinated? I would chew off my arm from a trap if I ever had to be a "room parent" again.

    I read the article but felt compelled to correct Murray on one glaring mistake: Bill Gates married very late...he's the same age as my husband, but their children and his wife are much younger than mine or me.
  46. @Lagertha
    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being "on the right path of what really interests you" has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must). I have warned them to stay away from 'borderline ', unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always. I have given them the advice and the right books I know that will help them to not just perform sexually, but to understand relationships. In the end, the hottest guy is the guy who knows what bills he needs to pay...and who will take care of him (if in a relationship) and keep paying the bills if he falls ill. Money is just a metaphor for "less anxiety," as my father told me.

    I have warned them to stay away from ‘borderline ‘, unstable in general, and derelict people in college, and later, always.

    Age-old advice: “Never get involved with anyone who’s crazier than you are.”

  47. @Rapparee
    "Chris Rock reflects in Top Five: anything you do with a woman that doesn’t end in you marrying her is, from her point of view, just wasting her time."

    I strongly suggest to all my single (male) friends the "Three Date Rule". If she's not at least potentially something resembling marriage material, never give her more than three dates. There's no reason to be wasting each others' precious time. (Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it's later and less clear-cut than it is for women, so they're often blindsided when it arrives).

    >>> Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women

    location, location, location

    consider the median US social Security check. Now consider how much spending power that is in a mid-size Province Capitol city in north Thailand or South Philippines or East Indonesia. These are cities where you wouldn’t need to leave town to get an appendectomy taken care of, or where one can safely and reliably route the SS money to, or where $20/month will get you 97 channels worth of cable Tv. . IE, a comfortable place to live.

    Now ===visit=== one of those cities, and observe the 70-something western guys who are running soft harems of 22 year olds.

    a McDonalds at breakfast time. That’s a good place to spot these guys.

    • Replies: @Flip
    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.
  48. Hot babes and some comic relief. This is why we love isteve! Thank god this guy was a billionaire though. Otherwise it could have been more serious.

  49. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    "Worldlier cultures than ours . . ."

    Thanks again Steve for helping me clarify my own thoughts. The childishness and provincialism of our culture is astounding. It's as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls.

    “It’s as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls.”

    This began to happen in the prosperous, postwar America that was the 1950s, with its rock and roll teen market culture and accompanying “beat” pseudointellectualism. The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV. Those teen girls grew up to influence us all.

    As with dada art before it, we have not yet awakened from its silly dream. It is part of the reason we have descended to where we are now.

    We ARE a culture of adolescence, ruled by the youth market.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    It didn't "begin to happen in the 50s". Psycho girls and their dramatic stories of victimization were the core of the Salem Witch trials. The eternal nature of women as histrionic liars prone to generate social chaos, particularly with sex, is the reason Judaism and Islam radically discount female testimony in court. Go to any African news aggregator and search for " witch". You will be astounded by the number of young women who weep copiously in court as they tell tales of forced cannibalism, fornication with animals, shape-shifting, flying on the backs of demons, etc. It has always been thus.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV.
     
    "1950's"? "TV"?

    A classic episode of Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story" concerned one "Francis", a pop star of the '40s so magnetic that girls screamed and fainted at his concerts, and would even run up to him on train platforms with scissors in hand to get a lock of his hair.

    The bombshell at the end was that "Francis", the Forties' hottest idol, performed in the 1840s-- as Franz Liszt.

    This isn't a new phenomenon.
  50. @Greenstalk
    New Reader - Gather up your courage and fight back, fellas. We did.

    No, you didn't. A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not '"fight back" any more than blacks or women did.

    “No, you didn’t. A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not ‘”fight back” any more than blacks or women did.”

    Yup.

  51. @Anonymous
    Meh. Neither this "model" (ooooh what a big deal -- a neighbor's wife once told me about taking her daughter to S.F. to "model" for some clothing store catalog, pics probably reprinted exactly once, for the daughter to have & brag about -- try being more worldly, Sailer) or U.Va. catfisherwoman are adventuresses. This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM. Give em an opening and they take it. Let's not feed their adolescent egos even more with comparisons to Mata Hari and Pamela Harriman. BTW you really won't let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: "The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/the Rev. Wright story/the Iraq war, etc. etc." You could do like the Taco Bell ad where they quoted random Ronald McDonalds, except your testimonials could be from "Dave Brooks" and "Frank Fuyomomma"

    Well, whatever you want to call those women of the world, their careers are not being abetted by a merely female-pandering MSM. They’re being abetted by females in the media who want to talk about rape victims a lot, probably for the same reason they want to read about rape victims who fall in love with their rapists a lot, and apparently fantasize about being raped a lot. Basically women think about being raped all the time, and since its on the same spectrum of emotion for them as having your heart broken, females in general empathize with the victims and don’t distinguish types of rape. It has certainly had a sort of tabloid effect, and come to think of it, aren’t adventuresses what make the tabloids?

  52. @Karl
    >>> Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women


    location, location, location

    consider the median US social Security check. Now consider how much spending power that is in a mid-size Province Capitol city in north Thailand or South Philippines or East Indonesia. These are cities where you wouldn't need to leave town to get an appendectomy taken care of, or where one can safely and reliably route the SS money to, or where $20/month will get you 97 channels worth of cable Tv. . IE, a comfortable place to live.

    Now ===visit=== one of those cities, and observe the 70-something western guys who are running soft harems of 22 year olds.

    a McDonalds at breakfast time. That's a good place to spot these guys.

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I don't think he's a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.
    , @AnotherDad

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.
     
    And he's doing it in the US, not Thailand. With a quality--attractive, college educated--white girl. Making more white babies.

    (And its not because he's some sort of player who dumped his first wife. Unfortunately, Maggie Brimelow died of cancer in her early 50s.)

    Brimelow is a stud--as well as a champion of western civilization, and an sane man in insane times.
    , @Twinkie

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.
     
    While I don't object to other people's conceptions of love, that is an interesting definition of a "hero," marrying a young women who is one's daughter's or even granddaughter's age.
  53. Is “Adventuress” a more polite word for “skank” ?

  54. @asininereality
    Her mom was a type-A personality who built her own business, sold it, then bitched at how the buyers were "intimidated by strong women" (eyeroll). Took her daughter to start modelling at THIRTEEN. Hm... modelling agencies... not the skeeziest career choice for a 13-year old, no. She used to have a website with her modelling photos, some of them were those creepy semi-porny "fashion shoots" --- starting at THIRTEEN. Thirteen, wearing revealing clothes, heels, dressing like she was 22, what could go wrong?

    Opportunities from modelling contacts, a pushy type-A helicopter mom. No way could she have been out of her own depth at Stanford, being pushed into a technical degree she may not have had the aptitude to do on her own and been flailing wildly.

    Eating disorders. Therapy.

    Needs attention. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE!

    Almost certainly the girl has borderline personality disorder. Lots of fun to be around…for awhile. Then the drama starts. High prevalence of eating disorders, self mutilation, suicide. Non-validating parents precipitate the condition.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Also the whole back and forth idealization/denigration (BTW, when will that word become verboten?) thing (Joe is the love of my life/Joe is an evil monster) is very indicative of borderline.
  55. @Twinkie

    Fashion model – polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.
     
    That's a bit over the top, no?

    My wife, while she was a college student at an Ivy League university, did catalog-modeling to make some money to pay bills. Her highly educated and wealthy family actually discouraged it, but since they expected her to pay for at least a part of her education own her own, did not forbid it.

    She wasn't a high-level fashion model. She was and is very beautiful, but has a softer girl-next-door look rather than the sharper (and more idiosyncratic) high fashion, runway look. But catalog modeling was steady and paid better than any campus job.

    My wife also has a doctorate in a STEM field and was a world-class athlete while in school, so she wasn't exactly "a useless woman with no job skills..."

    I know the brainless model bit is a common stereotype, but some of her erstwhile colleagues didn't fit that stereotype either.

    My physics TA at Harvard did modeling on the side as well. She is now a professor of physics and astronomy at a well-regarded university. No sugar daddy, as far as I’m aware.

  56. @Anonymous
    Meh. Neither this "model" (ooooh what a big deal -- a neighbor's wife once told me about taking her daughter to S.F. to "model" for some clothing store catalog, pics probably reprinted exactly once, for the daughter to have & brag about -- try being more worldly, Sailer) or U.Va. catfisherwoman are adventuresses. This is normal suburban girl behavior abetted by a female-pandering MSM. Give em an opening and they take it. Let's not feed their adolescent egos even more with comparisons to Mata Hari and Pamela Harriman. BTW you really won't let the Bradley thing drop, will you? Why not change your blog bio: "The man who exposed the U.Va. rape story/the Rev. Wright story/the Iraq war, etc. etc." You could do like the Taco Bell ad where they quoted random Ronald McDonalds, except your testimonials could be from "Dave Brooks" and "Frank Fuyomomma"

    It’s not Steve’s fault that we live in an age of mental midgets. It’s like what Gloria Swanson says in Sunset Boulevard when told she used to be a big star – “I AM big, it’s the pictures that got small!”. Nowadays the pictures have shrunken to fit on an iPhone and instead of great novels we have tweets.

    Steve is not the one who is tying the U Va (non)rape to this (non)rape – that was done by the president of U Va herself. I would agree with you that it’s utterly ridiculous to connect an imaginary rape in Virginia with a failed romance in California, and if Steve had done it, you could call him out on it, but he didn’t, it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted “victim” (or is it “survivor”?) from whom we should all learn important lessons (THREE important lessons, just as in any good fable), just as the young of an earlier age learned from the tribulations of Saints Perpetua and Felicity or young Soviets learned from the heroic labor of Stakhanov.

    We have always expected young’uns to be excitable, to fall victim to the trends of the moment, to be easily misled by charlatans. But it’s a new development when this type of naive credulity extends to the very top. I would like to be cynical and say that the people in charge are not that dumb, that they know damn well that they are talking to an adventuress and not a rape victim and that they are using her for their own purposes, but I don’t think so. As Steve says, these are people who have been deprived of the very vocabulary needed to analyze the situation and are only capable of framing it in familiar terms. Someone smarter would nevertheless sense that something was rotten, even if they didn’t quite have the word for it, but Pres. Sullivan isn’t that someone. Idiocracy is here, now.

    • Replies: @Forbes

    ...it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted “victim” (or is it “survivor”?) from whom we should all learn important lessons...
     
    The 23-year old, first semester grad student, and her mother have a two hour crying jag with UVa president Sullivan because...? Is this how university presidents spend their time? There are 21,000 students at UVa. The mind boggles at the juvenilia on display.
    , @namae nanka
    If I have seen farther than others, it's because I'm knee-deep in dwarves. - Gregory Cochran
    , @Empiricist
    For president Sullivan to shine a "rape survivor" spotlight on this highly suspect accuser, and to refer uncritically to a "brutal rape" certainly makes one wonder about how Sullivan plans to CHANGE THE CULTURE at UVa. What needs to be changed is the foolish acceptance of accusations as facts by "leaders" who should know better.
  57. One nice thing about Woman’s Lib, is that it finally allowed females total sexual freedom — to have as much sex as they wanted, with as many men/women/men-women as they wanted, whenever and wherever they wanted.

    This young girl is living the dream. Good for her.

  58. @Flip
    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    I don’t think he’s a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.

    • Replies: @Flip
    It's better than not being born at all. I know a woman who had two children via sperm donor and so those children have no father at all.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "I don’t think he’s a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents."

    Yeah, well, her other option was non-existence, so I think she made out pretty well, all things considered.
    , @Bill P
    Yeah, my best friend's dad was 54 when he was born, and died when my friend was 25. That's not terrible, except my friend's mom died suddenly right before his dad did while still in her fifties, leaving him alone in this world. They did provide well for him, and they both died rather quickly, which was probably the most convenient outcome -- he inherited enough to start a family in an expensive city, which wouldn't have happened if they'd lingered.

    I just wonder, when Brimelow's well into his dotage and the older kids are all grown up, what kind of sparks will fly over the estate. Someone's going to get the shaft -- that's for sure. As for childcare, I've got another little kid and I'm 40, and it feels like too much already. 67? You've got to be kidding me. I expect grandkids by then!

    I remember as a young father in Seattle with my first kid I'd be hanging out at the park and there would be some older dads there. 40-something was more the norm than my age in Seattle at the time (the city's too expensive for young parents), but every now and then some real old geezer would show up with his little kids. Inevitably, he would be strutting around like a gamecock trying to prove himself while I kicked back with a good book. Oh, his wife would inevitably be interested in talking to me, BTW, which would just drive the old man to even more ridiculous displays of virility, like swinging on monkey bars (hilarious stuff).

    It just looked like so much effort. I am so totally looking forward to being done with that by then (much sooner, actually).
  59. @Dan
    Almost certainly the girl has borderline personality disorder. Lots of fun to be around...for awhile. Then the drama starts. High prevalence of eating disorders, self mutilation, suicide. Non-validating parents precipitate the condition.

    Also the whole back and forth idealization/denigration (BTW, when will that word become verboten?) thing (Joe is the love of my life/Joe is an evil monster) is very indicative of borderline.

    • Replies: @Anton
    Spot on.
  60. Doesn’t ‘model’= prostitute at some level? If I am willing to sell my body for its looks but draw the line at point A, how different is that than the hooker who agrees to point A but draws the line at B?

    BTW when is UVA president Teresa Sullivan going to be fired?

  61. The Billionaire is certainly in the headlines these days. Average men will endure much angst over women en-masse adopting the 50 Shades ingenue-waif bangs over those infernal haughty empower-buns they have been sporting the last few years.

    But this latest installment in the uncanny 72-hour meme cycle contains many ugly truths. Least of which is the fact that female premarital intercouse is the primary cause of later marital discord and the “divorce epidemic”.

    Perhaps the saddest part of this spectacle is seeing a Professional Rape Victim destroy what future possibility she has for finding a loving companion. For who can compare to The Billionaire?

  62. This presages the sequel to Fifty Shades of Grey, where the heroine sues the bejeezus out of Mr. Grey.

  63. I’m looking at the picture here and thinking “damn this guy looks like the founder of that company which flew me out to mountain view, interviewed me, talked about some pretty paltry salary options and then didn’t hire me….” Same guy! Founded Addepar, a seemingly useful service for wealth managers. Didn’t meet him but the place gives off a really strong “harmless, motivated computer expert types” vibe.

  64. @Whiskey
    The dog that isn't barking: that "adventuresses" don't try this with: Rap moguls, Basketball players, big time actors, big time politicians, etc. Monica Lewinsky is still "in love" with Bill Clinton. Would do anything for him, really.

    Money does not make a man Alpha. It merely makes him rich. Charisma, dominance, danger, unpredictability, violence, all are part of being Alpha. I'd imagine the woman is at least as angry at having to have sex with a beta male as anything else.

    Plenty of dominant Alphas have done many things with women, and have never had rape allegations.

    Remember the Kobe rape accusation?

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @vinny
    OT, Bob Dylan comes out firmly on the side of nurture:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-bob-dylans-complete-riveting-musicares-speech-20150209

    'If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you'd have written "How many roads must a man walk down?" too.'

    OT, Bob Dylan comes out firmly on the side of nurture:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-bob-dylans-complete-riveting-musicares-speech-20150209

    ‘If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you’d have written “How many roads must a man walk down?” too.’

    What blithering nonsense. The ability to write rock music incorporating tropes from Old Weird American folk music is clearly genetic.

  66. The old Christian view was that marriage — including abstinence before and faithfulness after — was designed to protect women from predatory men. Now we learn that it’s also to protect men from predatory women.

    Who but the Almighty saw this coming!

  67. Just thinking about how poorly this girl has been served by the lesbians running Feminism Inc, some rules of organizational behavior:

    All feminist organizations will eventually be run by angry lesbians.
    All non-religious conservative organizations will eventually be run by businessmen.
    All socialist organizations will eventually be run by communists.

    And there are probably other examples.

  68. “Adventuress” doesn’t fit quite right. She’s too broken-hearted, confused, and emotionally disturbed.

    Another old-fashioned expression works better: She was “ruined.”

    Ellie Clougherty’s mother’s description of Joe Lonsdale as “angry and controlling” is a spectacular example of what Sailer calls psychological projection.

  69. It’s rarely just about love:

    Gold Digger – looking to marry a millionaire

    Silver Digger – looking to marry someone with a solid job and above average income

    Bronze Digger – looking for someone with any job who can help pay the rent

    These can also be men.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Now i have words to describe the advice i'm giving my daughters:

    i'm telling 'em "go for the silver!"
  70. @Jack D
    It's not Steve's fault that we live in an age of mental midgets. It's like what Gloria Swanson says in Sunset Boulevard when told she used to be a big star - "I AM big, it's the pictures that got small!". Nowadays the pictures have shrunken to fit on an iPhone and instead of great novels we have tweets.

    Steve is not the one who is tying the U Va (non)rape to this (non)rape - that was done by the president of U Va herself. I would agree with you that it's utterly ridiculous to connect an imaginary rape in Virginia with a failed romance in California, and if Steve had done it, you could call him out on it, but he didn't, it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted "victim" (or is it "survivor"?) from whom we should all learn important lessons (THREE important lessons, just as in any good fable), just as the young of an earlier age learned from the tribulations of Saints Perpetua and Felicity or young Soviets learned from the heroic labor of Stakhanov.

    We have always expected young'uns to be excitable, to fall victim to the trends of the moment, to be easily misled by charlatans. But it's a new development when this type of naive credulity extends to the very top. I would like to be cynical and say that the people in charge are not that dumb, that they know damn well that they are talking to an adventuress and not a rape victim and that they are using her for their own purposes, but I don't think so. As Steve says, these are people who have been deprived of the very vocabulary needed to analyze the situation and are only capable of framing it in familiar terms. Someone smarter would nevertheless sense that something was rotten, even if they didn't quite have the word for it, but Pres. Sullivan isn't that someone. Idiocracy is here, now.

    …it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted “victim” (or is it “survivor”?) from whom we should all learn important lessons…

    The 23-year old, first semester grad student, and her mother have a two hour crying jag with UVa president Sullivan because…? Is this how university presidents spend their time? There are 21,000 students at UVa. The mind boggles at the juvenilia on display.

  71. @Twinkie

    Fashion model – polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.
     
    That's a bit over the top, no?

    My wife, while she was a college student at an Ivy League university, did catalog-modeling to make some money to pay bills. Her highly educated and wealthy family actually discouraged it, but since they expected her to pay for at least a part of her education own her own, did not forbid it.

    She wasn't a high-level fashion model. She was and is very beautiful, but has a softer girl-next-door look rather than the sharper (and more idiosyncratic) high fashion, runway look. But catalog modeling was steady and paid better than any campus job.

    My wife also has a doctorate in a STEM field and was a world-class athlete while in school, so she wasn't exactly "a useless woman with no job skills..."

    I know the brainless model bit is a common stereotype, but some of her erstwhile colleagues didn't fit that stereotype either.

    My high school math teacher had appeared in Playboy, when she was in college just a very few years earlier.

    Oddly, nobody then made a big deal about it. It was just a confirmed rumor around the school. We teenage boys just whispered to each other when we heard about it, and then searched our fathers’ closets to find the issue she was in.

    She was a great math teacher, smart and totally appropriate. She clearly liked math and science. (Sure, sometimes I mentally undressed her during class, but that’s what a teenage boy would do with a teacher that pretty anyway. It was just easier for me to do the imagining, since I knew what was under there.)

    I remember how funny it was when my father came home from parent-teacher conferences. He couldn’t help but exclaim how pretty my math teacher was! (I’ll never know, but it would be really funny if he recognized her.)

    I suppose today that teacher might end up becoming a scandal story in the local TV news, without deserving to be. (Honestly, some things really are more puritanical now than they were for a while. People scream about things they would giggle about and leave alone during those few, open decades that have passed. It’s a paradox of our anti-white-male, post-post-war age.)

    In any case, a real stereotype breaker, our Playboy model / math teacher was married to a physicist.

    Smart guys do get the babes sometimes. And some babes are smart girls.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Well, Senator Scott Brown posed in Cosmo and Playgirl in the early 80's, and it seems more like a plus than a "minus" for him since he has gone fairly far in his political career. He and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.

    And, two of my close friends from the 80's were models (one Ford, the other, a runway model in NYC) both did it for the money to pay for their education or their children's education later. Just to make all the men feel good about themselves: both women married very cerebral men who were 6" shorter! - one is bald, the other is chubby like a cute cherub. Their children are gorgeous...both have been married for a long time...one, her first serious love right after HS...both live/lived in NYC. Paulina Porizkova did marry Ric Ocasek, if you remember, whose face my mother said, "was carved with an axe."

  72. @Buzz Mohawk

    "It’s as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls."
     
    This began to happen in the prosperous, postwar America that was the 1950s, with its rock and roll teen market culture and accompanying "beat" pseudointellectualism. The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV. Those teen girls grew up to influence us all.

    As with dada art before it, we have not yet awakened from its silly dream. It is part of the reason we have descended to where we are now.

    We ARE a culture of adolescence, ruled by the youth market.

    It didn’t “begin to happen in the 50s”. Psycho girls and their dramatic stories of victimization were the core of the Salem Witch trials. The eternal nature of women as histrionic liars prone to generate social chaos, particularly with sex, is the reason Judaism and Islam radically discount female testimony in court. Go to any African news aggregator and search for ” witch”. You will be astounded by the number of young women who weep copiously in court as they tell tales of forced cannibalism, fornication with animals, shape-shifting, flying on the backs of demons, etc. It has always been thus.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Where to begin?

    So, you presumably would repeal the 19th amendment to the US Constitution so women cannot vote. That's your logic, and it's ugly.

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.

    You hold up ancient Jewish and archaic Muslim practices as proper ways to handle women. I dated a woman who had been beaten and raped by a Muslim man in a forced marriage. I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    You use African women, of all creatures, as examples of human womanhood. While many are wonderful, and a couple even dated me in a previous life, I must honestly tell you what you should already know: they are practically a separate species. Do not hold them up to me in any attempt to condemn European women. There is no comparison.

    Women are not some kind of irrational, untrustworthy nut jobs you seem to believe they are. What would your mother think? For God's sake man. I was describing a cultural decline I have witnessed, one that was participated in fully by men and women both. I don't know what in hell you are talking about.

  73. We are living the “Homer Badman” episode of The Simpsons.

  74. Wouldn’t life be simpler for him, her and the rest of us if they’d just got married before she gave it up to him? Or – to be less idealistic – wouldn’t it be easier if she wasn’t demanding we punish him for taking her womanly virtue under false pretences while also demanding that we have no say in what she gets up to when she thinks there’s a ring in it for her?

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Wouldn’t life be simpler for him, her and the rest of us if they’d just got married before she gave it up to him? Or – to be less idealistic – wouldn’t it be easier if she wasn’t demanding we punish him for taking her womanly virtue under false pretences while also demanding that we have no say in what she gets up to when she thinks there’s a ring in it for her?
     
    Exactly. There were reasons for our sexual conventions.
  75. Nothing stops a man from pausing for a minute before anything really happens and literally asking (he can do it in a joking manner to keep the mood): “This is consensual…right?”

    You don’t have to record it on your phone or anything, just having the sentence acknowledged is enough.

    I did it in university and it actually saved me a couple of times from the….unbalanced ones (bi-polar…HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW? Its not like they wear a god damn tag indicating it…).

    Sigh…memory lane….

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Nothing stops a man from pausing for a minute before anything really happens and literally asking (he can do it in a joking manner to keep the mood): 'This is consensual…right?'

    You don’t have to record it on your phone or anything, just having the sentence acknowledged is enough."

    Or you could just lie.

    I don't ordinarily condone dishonesty, but within the context of a virulently corrupt and misandrist system, being exploited by a sociopathic slut-twit, I can't find it in my heart to condemn an innocent man for employing a little blatant trickery, if need be in order to protect himself from an unjust outcome.
  76. Fortunately, she ain’t my type.

  77. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    Am I the only one who doesn't think this woman is particularly attractive?

    Am I the only one who doesn’t think this woman is particularly attractive?

    Nope.

    Not to my eye a particularly attractive woman–something off about her face–particularly at an age when when girls are pumped chock full of estrogen, 95% of the non-fatties are appealing and the truly cute ones are stunning works of art.

    But she’s blond and has the long-skinny-heroin-addict look that seems to be popular (with gay men).

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    She looks like she could be Matt Damon's niece. Or fey nephew.
  78. @New Reader
    I've just read as much of the NYT article as I could stand. I feel embarrassed for the young woman, who is crazier than an outhouse rat, and everyone at the NYT involved in producing and publishing it. This kind of stuff just boggles my mind.

    Being homosexual myself, there are times when I stand back and look at the heterosexual milieu with utter amazement. Yep, I know about throwing stones while living in glass houses, so I promise not to toss too big a rock too hard. But if there's one advantage to being gay, it's the ability to stand apart from your world, while still being very much a part of it just because of the numbers and the culture. And just like, say, the gay bathhouse phenomenon doesn't exactly show my tribe at its best, the things we see among our heterosexual brethren sometimes are beyond unreal.

    Come on, folks, you're the majority, and not by a small margin. However you want to slice Kinsey's oft-misunderstood numbers, your tribe is 10 to 30 times the size of mine, depending on just how you want to define it. And you put up with this? Why, for chrissakes? Same goes for the current fashionsta feminist crap about campus rape. Forget about the UVA circus for a second; the outrageous crap being thrown around would be outrageous even if that tale from "Jackie" had been true.

    It occurs to me that the people with the most sexual freedom these days are gays. For the moment, we're like the U.S. Navy. We got where we want, when we want, and do pretty damn well what we feel like doing, with some tragic exceptions that prove the rule. Your tribe? God almighty, the tangled web, and getting more so all the time.

    I know that much of the audience here doesn't like that state of affairs as it pertains to gays, and I'd be the first to acknowledge the downsides, starting with STDs and moving on through the psychological consequences of too much promiscuity. I've been around for several decades, and I think that, in general, my tribe is slowly become more domesticated, but not so domesticated that we've got to put up with even a fraction of the horses*** that at least some heterosexual men do.

    Let me state it bluntly: If a gay man told the tale that this "victim" told, I don't know of a single gay man who would do anything but laugh. And you know how hard gay men can laugh. We are the toughest audience, and this little show would get canceled after the first night. What a complete, total crock!

    So I suppose this is the time for me to express pity, but I can't. Gather up your courage and fight back, fellas. We did. Things will get worse before they get better, but if you stick together over time, you will win your freedom back.

    “Your tribe? God almighty, the tangled web, and getting more so all the time”

    With respect, I don’t think heterosexuals are a tribe, and the reasons for this in part help to explain why the ‘tangled web’ that we find ourselves in does not really bear any comparison with the issues that the undoubted ‘tribe’ of homosexuals (at least in the post-Christian West) may face.

    Tribes exist in relation to other tribes, whereas heterosexuality is the normative state of a society. Think of the qualities of a tribe: a tribe is something that one can withdraw or retreat into. Can one ‘withdraw’ into heterosexual society? Not really, because heterosexual society surrounds and infuses everything, including homosexual sub-cultures, because homosexuals are the result of heterosexual couplings and families themselves. Hence it is homosexuals that seek to mimic/overthrow/satirise/gain acceptance from/ the normative institutions and culture of heterosexuals in the form of marriage and family, whereas there is very little traffic the other way.

    As I say, all this illustrates why this tangled web is so profound and destructive, and will not easily be untangled: in a civilisational sense, heterosexuality matters more. the desire of men and women to have sex and to have children is clearly the defining and necessary impulse of any society that hopes to perpetuate itself. If men and women are at war with each other then the whole of society, including the children and the elderly, will suffer in a way that society will not if gay men became disillusioned with other gay men. Civilisation has these complex and often arcane structures that have been built over centuries to try and contain and channel the complicated and powerful urges that heterosexual sex and their consequences create: children, competition, war, envy, and paternity must all be tightly hemmed in, constrained and directed through marriage, patriarchy, religion, family, rules, government.

    It isn’t really an option for men to just ‘laugh’ at the behaviour of women and mentally ‘walk away’ from their problems. Their problems are our problems. We complement each other and define each other, we destroy each other and build each other in ways that I do not think is true for gay men. How can we walk away? Walk away to where? As I said, we have no other tribal sub-grouping to withdraw into. We do not have the luxury of being outsiders of spectators.

    Your tribe needed us to be healthy. It may just be that it wasn’t such a smart move for the Queer Tribe (of course there are those homosexuals who do not fit into this category) to seek to undermine the work of centuries of building.

  79. @Flip
    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    And he’s doing it in the US, not Thailand. With a quality–attractive, college educated–white girl. Making more white babies.

    (And its not because he’s some sort of player who dumped his first wife. Unfortunately, Maggie Brimelow died of cancer in her early 50s.)

    Brimelow is a stud–as well as a champion of western civilization, and an sane man in insane times.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    And he’s doing it in the US, not Thailand. With a quality–attractive, college educated–white girl. Making more white babies.
     
    I do not know Mr. and Mrs. Brimelow, so I am only speaking hypothetically. But holding other variables constant, shouldn't Mrs. Brimelow be breeding with men near her age? Men in their late sixties have poorer quality sperm and drastically increase the chance of birth defects and autism. Don't you want the white babies to be high quality?

    And, as a father of young daughters, I can tell you that it's no dream of mine for them to marry men who are their grandfather's age.

    What's going to happen to the 29 year-old wife in 30 years, when she hasn't even bit 60 yet and the groom is either 97 or in the grave?

    While I agree that love can conquer call (which is why I would not judge these two folks whom I do not know), as a general statement, this is not a good recipe for a long, successful marriage between two partners, no?
  80. @Twinkie

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).
     
    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a "startup" marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as "us." While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had "startup" marriages).

    When we see other people's "merger" marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.

    Nice story Twinkie …
    … until you got to
    Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other.

    Seriously, grow a pair.

    Look i agree your path is the best path. If you are going to marry a girl–i.e. devote your life’s labor to providing for her and her kids–you should at least get to enjoy her prime years of sexual attractiveness.

    But your wife doesn’t need to see all your emails any more than she needs to listen to all your conversations with your friends over a beer. My wife’s off somewhere or another with one of her friends, meeting more friends for lunch. I don’t need to hear all those hens clucking. She doesn’t need to read my emails to my buddies.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Seriously, grow a pair.
     
    Sorry, I spent my "pair" shooting bad guys overseas and having a very large brood of children.

    It's an interesting concept of masculinity - hiding stuff from your woman.

    Look, the iPads for my wife and me in my household have both of our e-mails on *for convenience* and also because we have no secrets with each other. That doesn't mean we read each other's e-mails as a habit.

    But it does come handy sometimes. I recently bid for a pre-war Walther PPK and was outbid and was oblivious to it. My wife noticed that on her iPad and called me to see if I'd want to exceed the latest bid. I authorized it. She went ahead and placed a new bid on my behalf.

    I now have another Walther PPK in 32 ACP with pre-war markings. I am happy.

    you should at least get to enjoy her prime years of sexual attractiveness.
     
    Marriage is both procreative *and* unitive, the latter being the harmonious, complementary synthesis of the male and the female into one. If one is blessed, a wife is not just a sex toy; she is a most loyal friend, a confidante, an advisor, and indeed an invaluable peek into the half of humanity...

    I've been very blessed, indeed!
  81. @Carlton Meyer
    It's rarely just about love:

    Gold Digger - looking to marry a millionaire

    Silver Digger - looking to marry someone with a solid job and above average income

    Bronze Digger - looking for someone with any job who can help pay the rent

    These can also be men.

    Now i have words to describe the advice i’m giving my daughters:

    i’m telling ’em “go for the silver!”

  82. A simple way to explain this to non-iSteve folks:

    We had\have a simple way to deal with men who are hyper-masculine and immature, exercising poor judgment and impulse control–prison.

    We used to have a way to deal with women who are hyper-feminine and immature, exercising poor judgment and impulse control–ignoring them.

    But now instead we have university departments, bureaucracies, the legal system, the whole culture paying extra attention to them, telling them they are “victims”, showing them with attention and sympathy and egging on their attention whoring.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    When was this era when attractive women were ignored?
  83. @rod1963
    Adventuress - polite term for gold digger pushing the boundaries.

    Fashion model - polite term for a useless woman with no job skills and whose entire identity it tied up with her looks and people kissing her behind. As their looks fade and career circles the drain they seek out the nearest sugar daddy.

    Clougherty's fashion career apparently never really took off so she was reduced to looking for a fat wallet to leech off of by 20.

    Lonsdale almost blew it. That's the problem with geeks, they grew up only dating average looking gals if they were lucky. So when a very good looking woman comes on to them, it makes them feel like a million dollars and they lose their brains. The guy thinks "trophy wife" material, something to match his stellar rise in Silicon Valley. He should have stuck with the girls from the local Waffle House or one from the secretarial pool with big tatas.

    Luckily Lonsdale bailed in time. I bet Clougherty started exhibiting signs of the "crazy" that scared him off.

    Silicon Valley killed off the secretarial pool.

  84. @Jack D
    I don't think he's a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.

    It’s better than not being born at all. I know a woman who had two children via sperm donor and so those children have no father at all.

  85. @AnotherDad

    Am I the only one who doesn’t think this woman is particularly attractive?
     
    Nope.

    Not to my eye a particularly attractive woman--something off about her face--particularly at an age when when girls are pumped chock full of estrogen, 95% of the non-fatties are appealing and the truly cute ones are stunning works of art.

    But she's blond and has the long-skinny-heroin-addict look that seems to be popular (with gay men).

    She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    • Replies: @Truth
    She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    Or Obama's daughter.
  86. @AnotherDad
    A simple way to explain this to non-iSteve folks:

    We had\have a simple way to deal with men who are hyper-masculine and immature, exercising poor judgment and impulse control--prison.

    We used to have a way to deal with women who are hyper-feminine and immature, exercising poor judgment and impulse control--ignoring them.

    But now instead we have university departments, bureaucracies, the legal system, the whole culture paying extra attention to them, telling them they are "victims", showing them with attention and sympathy and egging on their attention whoring.

    When was this era when attractive women were ignored?

  87. @Rapparee
    "Chris Rock reflects in Top Five: anything you do with a woman that doesn’t end in you marrying her is, from her point of view, just wasting her time."

    I strongly suggest to all my single (male) friends the "Three Date Rule". If she's not at least potentially something resembling marriage material, never give her more than three dates. There's no reason to be wasting each others' precious time. (Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it's later and less clear-cut than it is for women, so they're often blindsided when it arrives).

    “(Guys have a sell-by date, too, but it’s later and less clear-cut than it is for women, so they’re often blindsided when it arrives).”

    A guy may lose his ability to attract hot 22-year olds, but he’s always got value to women in his own approximate age group. Personally, I find hot 22-year olds to be too annoying to deal with, even if could get them (I’m 44, and my last girlfriend was a chubby 29, so I don’t kid myself about my ability to attract them…fortunately, I don’t really want them). That 29-year old was a psycho disaster. My current girlfriend is my age (18 months older, in fact), and I’m much happier.

  88. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    Am I the only one who doesn't think this woman is particularly attractive?

    there is nothing worse than a cute child that grows up to be just average that was a “model” during those cute years and then reality hits……and we’re seeing those results now.

    she’s average at best…….that kinda reminds me of that line in “American beauty” …..there’s nothing worse in life than being ordinary

  89. @Jack D
    I don't think he's a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.

    “I don’t think he’s a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.”

    Yeah, well, her other option was non-existence, so I think she made out pretty well, all things considered.

  90. @Max Payne
    Nothing stops a man from pausing for a minute before anything really happens and literally asking (he can do it in a joking manner to keep the mood): "This is consensual...right?"

    You don't have to record it on your phone or anything, just having the sentence acknowledged is enough.

    I did it in university and it actually saved me a couple of times from the....unbalanced ones (bi-polar...HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW? Its not like they wear a god damn tag indicating it...).

    Sigh...memory lane....

    “Nothing stops a man from pausing for a minute before anything really happens and literally asking (he can do it in a joking manner to keep the mood): ‘This is consensual…right?’

    You don’t have to record it on your phone or anything, just having the sentence acknowledged is enough.”

    Or you could just lie.

    I don’t ordinarily condone dishonesty, but within the context of a virulently corrupt and misandrist system, being exploited by a sociopathic slut-twit, I can’t find it in my heart to condemn an innocent man for employing a little blatant trickery, if need be in order to protect himself from an unjust outcome.

  91. @Twinkie

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).
     
    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a "startup" marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as "us." While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had "startup" marriages).

    When we see other people's "merger" marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.

    Twinkie confirmed for Japanese.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Twinkie confirmed for Japanese.
     
    Do elaborate.
  92. @Jack D
    I don't think he's a hero. Chance are good that he will leave this child orphaned before the child finishes high school. No teen wants a feeble 80 year old to be his dad. Even if he has provided financially for the child, children need parents.

    Yeah, my best friend’s dad was 54 when he was born, and died when my friend was 25. That’s not terrible, except my friend’s mom died suddenly right before his dad did while still in her fifties, leaving him alone in this world. They did provide well for him, and they both died rather quickly, which was probably the most convenient outcome — he inherited enough to start a family in an expensive city, which wouldn’t have happened if they’d lingered.

    I just wonder, when Brimelow’s well into his dotage and the older kids are all grown up, what kind of sparks will fly over the estate. Someone’s going to get the shaft — that’s for sure. As for childcare, I’ve got another little kid and I’m 40, and it feels like too much already. 67? You’ve got to be kidding me. I expect grandkids by then!

    I remember as a young father in Seattle with my first kid I’d be hanging out at the park and there would be some older dads there. 40-something was more the norm than my age in Seattle at the time (the city’s too expensive for young parents), but every now and then some real old geezer would show up with his little kids. Inevitably, he would be strutting around like a gamecock trying to prove himself while I kicked back with a good book. Oh, his wife would inevitably be interested in talking to me, BTW, which would just drive the old man to even more ridiculous displays of virility, like swinging on monkey bars (hilarious stuff).

    It just looked like so much effort. I am so totally looking forward to being done with that by then (much sooner, actually).

  93. @Big Bill
    It didn't "begin to happen in the 50s". Psycho girls and their dramatic stories of victimization were the core of the Salem Witch trials. The eternal nature of women as histrionic liars prone to generate social chaos, particularly with sex, is the reason Judaism and Islam radically discount female testimony in court. Go to any African news aggregator and search for " witch". You will be astounded by the number of young women who weep copiously in court as they tell tales of forced cannibalism, fornication with animals, shape-shifting, flying on the backs of demons, etc. It has always been thus.

    Where to begin?

    So, you presumably would repeal the 19th amendment to the US Constitution so women cannot vote. That’s your logic, and it’s ugly.

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.

    You hold up ancient Jewish and archaic Muslim practices as proper ways to handle women. I dated a woman who had been beaten and raped by a Muslim man in a forced marriage. I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    You use African women, of all creatures, as examples of human womanhood. While many are wonderful, and a couple even dated me in a previous life, I must honestly tell you what you should already know: they are practically a separate species. Do not hold them up to me in any attempt to condemn European women. There is no comparison.

    Women are not some kind of irrational, untrustworthy nut jobs you seem to believe they are. What would your mother think? For God’s sake man. I was describing a cultural decline I have witnessed, one that was participated in fully by men and women both. I don’t know what in hell you are talking about.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.
     
    So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?
    , @Bill P

    I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    -Buzz Mohawk
     
    What were you doing looking at a married woman's naked back, praytell?
  94. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Where to begin?

    So, you presumably would repeal the 19th amendment to the US Constitution so women cannot vote. That's your logic, and it's ugly.

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.

    You hold up ancient Jewish and archaic Muslim practices as proper ways to handle women. I dated a woman who had been beaten and raped by a Muslim man in a forced marriage. I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    You use African women, of all creatures, as examples of human womanhood. While many are wonderful, and a couple even dated me in a previous life, I must honestly tell you what you should already know: they are practically a separate species. Do not hold them up to me in any attempt to condemn European women. There is no comparison.

    Women are not some kind of irrational, untrustworthy nut jobs you seem to believe they are. What would your mother think? For God's sake man. I was describing a cultural decline I have witnessed, one that was participated in fully by men and women both. I don't know what in hell you are talking about.

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.

    So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    "So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?"
     
    One was an Indian woman who had been forced into a Muslim marriage in her home country of Kenya. Not her choice at all.

    Another was a relative, in a totally WASP marriage, who somehow kept getting beat up by a drunk husband who refused to let her go out and get a job or do much of anything. She divorced him after serious injury, probably saving herself from something worse.

    One a "diverse" case, and the other not. Are you satisfied now, or do you still want to blame the women? These women I have already known and judged to be intelligent, rational and innocent.
  95. @Buzz Mohawk
    My high school math teacher had appeared in Playboy, when she was in college just a very few years earlier.

    Oddly, nobody then made a big deal about it. It was just a confirmed rumor around the school. We teenage boys just whispered to each other when we heard about it, and then searched our fathers' closets to find the issue she was in.

    She was a great math teacher, smart and totally appropriate. She clearly liked math and science. (Sure, sometimes I mentally undressed her during class, but that's what a teenage boy would do with a teacher that pretty anyway. It was just easier for me to do the imagining, since I knew what was under there.)

    I remember how funny it was when my father came home from parent-teacher conferences. He couldn't help but exclaim how pretty my math teacher was! (I'll never know, but it would be really funny if he recognized her.)

    I suppose today that teacher might end up becoming a scandal story in the local TV news, without deserving to be. (Honestly, some things really are more puritanical now than they were for a while. People scream about things they would giggle about and leave alone during those few, open decades that have passed. It's a paradox of our anti-white-male, post-post-war age.)

    In any case, a real stereotype breaker, our Playboy model / math teacher was married to a physicist.

    Smart guys do get the babes sometimes. And some babes are smart girls.

    Well, Senator Scott Brown posed in Cosmo and Playgirl in the early 80’s, and it seems more like a plus than a “minus” for him since he has gone fairly far in his political career. He and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.

    And, two of my close friends from the 80’s were models (one Ford, the other, a runway model in NYC) both did it for the money to pay for their education or their children’s education later. Just to make all the men feel good about themselves: both women married very cerebral men who were 6″ shorter! – one is bald, the other is chubby like a cute cherub. Their children are gorgeous…both have been married for a long time…one, her first serious love right after HS…both live/lived in NYC. Paulina Porizkova did marry Ric Ocasek, if you remember, whose face my mother said, “was carved with an axe.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    [Scott Brown] and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.
     
    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.
  96. @Buzz Mohawk
    Where to begin?

    So, you presumably would repeal the 19th amendment to the US Constitution so women cannot vote. That's your logic, and it's ugly.

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.

    You hold up ancient Jewish and archaic Muslim practices as proper ways to handle women. I dated a woman who had been beaten and raped by a Muslim man in a forced marriage. I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    You use African women, of all creatures, as examples of human womanhood. While many are wonderful, and a couple even dated me in a previous life, I must honestly tell you what you should already know: they are practically a separate species. Do not hold them up to me in any attempt to condemn European women. There is no comparison.

    Women are not some kind of irrational, untrustworthy nut jobs you seem to believe they are. What would your mother think? For God's sake man. I was describing a cultural decline I have witnessed, one that was participated in fully by men and women both. I don't know what in hell you are talking about.

    I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    -Buzz Mohawk

    What were you doing looking at a married woman’s naked back, praytell?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    "What were you doing looking at a married woman’s naked back, pray tell?"
     
    She had divorced and left her country to get away from her "husband" and his family. She had come to America, where I met her. She was living in a safe house, in fear of being kidnapped and taken back. We became friends, and I slept with her. Is that sufficient for your puritanical/prurient interest, "pray tell?" Or would you prefer that I had honored the forced Muslim marriage she had escaped in Kenya?
  97. @dr kill
    A wise man once noted - a pussy hair will tow a battleship. He didn't say anything about towing the battleship around Europe. But I have no doubt a hair from certain pussy could do so. God Bless America.

    A wise man once noted – a pussy hair will tow a battleship. He didn’t say anything about towing the battleship around Europe. But I have no doubt a hair from certain pussy could do so.

    Wow. You’ve managed to fuse Homer with Homer Simpson.

  98. @Lagertha
    Well, Senator Scott Brown posed in Cosmo and Playgirl in the early 80's, and it seems more like a plus than a "minus" for him since he has gone fairly far in his political career. He and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.

    And, two of my close friends from the 80's were models (one Ford, the other, a runway model in NYC) both did it for the money to pay for their education or their children's education later. Just to make all the men feel good about themselves: both women married very cerebral men who were 6" shorter! - one is bald, the other is chubby like a cute cherub. Their children are gorgeous...both have been married for a long time...one, her first serious love right after HS...both live/lived in NYC. Paulina Porizkova did marry Ric Ocasek, if you remember, whose face my mother said, "was carved with an axe."

    [Scott Brown] and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.

    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.

    • Replies: @New Reader

    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.
     
    Excuse me, but in the end, all Mormons are from Utah, regardless of where they live. You might have noticed that the Mittster, like any proper salmon, has announced that he'll be returning to his spawning grounds. Eventually, I expect him to take a slot on that council of 12, as soon as one of the 80+-year-olds dies of secret coffee withdrawal.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional."

    This is a common misunderstanding. What the 12th Amendment actually states, is that if you have a Presidential and a Vice-Presidential nominee from the same state, Electors from his state may only vote for one or the other. So in the event of a Mitt Romney/Scott Brown ticket, and in the event such a ticket carried Massachusetts, the Bay State Electors would would only be able to vote for Romney-for-President, or Brown-for-Vice-President (but not both). Electors from other states would be free to vote for both of them.

  99. @Twinkie

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).
     
    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a "startup" marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as "us." While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had "startup" marriages).

    When we see other people's "merger" marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.

    That is so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for you both.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That is so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for you both.
     
    I'd try to explain to you about the incredible beauty of the Christian marriage, but I won't since I know you are just "trolling" as kids say.
  100. @Jack D
    Also the whole back and forth idealization/denigration (BTW, when will that word become verboten?) thing (Joe is the love of my life/Joe is an evil monster) is very indicative of borderline.

    Spot on.

  101. With respect, I don’t think heterosexuals are a tribe, and the reasons for this in part help to explain why the ‘tangled web’ that we find ourselves in does not really bear any comparison with the issues that the undoubted ‘tribe’ of homosexuals (at least in the post-Christian West) may face.

    Oh fer chrissakes, it was a figure of speech. If I’d known it would be that much of a problem for you, I’d have used “group” or “category.” But something tells me you’d have been satisfied with nothing much less than “pack of evil faggots.” So, okay, pack of evil faggots it is. Happy? Hey, I aim to please.

    It may just be that it wasn’t such a smart move for the Queer Tribe (of course there are those homosexuals who do not fit into this category) to seek to undermine the work of centuries of building.

    Well, there are at least 7 million American homosexuals, using the lowest estimate. I’m sure some of them want to undermine something, but I’m pretty confident in asserting that most of them just want to get on with their lives.

    in a civilisational sense, heterosexuality matters more. the desire of men and women to have sex and to have children is clearly the defining and necessary impulse of any society that hopes to perpetuate itself. If men and women are at war with each other then the whole of society, including the children and the elderly, will suffer in a way that society will not if gay men became disillusioned with other gay men.

    Well yes, all of that’s true in the abstract. But this is the real world, where disillusionment is rife across all, ah, categories, including the pack of evil faggots. And from my observation and reading of literature, I’d say that men and women have always been “at war with each other.”

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    Does your "tribe" include lesbians, or is that a different tribe?
  102. @Buzz Mohawk

    "It’s as though the grown-ups abandoned their post and the reigns of society have been picked up by a group of 13 year old girls."
     
    This began to happen in the prosperous, postwar America that was the 1950s, with its rock and roll teen market culture and accompanying "beat" pseudointellectualism. The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV. Those teen girls grew up to influence us all.

    As with dada art before it, we have not yet awakened from its silly dream. It is part of the reason we have descended to where we are now.

    We ARE a culture of adolescence, ruled by the youth market.

    The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV.

    “1950’s”? “TV”?

    A classic episode of Paul Harvey’s “The Rest of the Story” concerned one “Francis”, a pop star of the ’40s so magnetic that girls screamed and fainted at his concerts, and would even run up to him on train platforms with scissors in hand to get a lock of his hair.

    The bombshell at the end was that “Francis”, the Forties’ hottest idol, performed in the 1840s— as Franz Liszt.

    This isn’t a new phenomenon.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The French band Phoenix (whose lead singer has a kid with Sophia Coppola) made a song about it: http://youtu.be/4BJDNw7o6so
  103. @Reg Cæsar

    [Scott Brown] and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.
     
    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.

    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.

    Excuse me, but in the end, all Mormons are from Utah, regardless of where they live. You might have noticed that the Mittster, like any proper salmon, has announced that he’ll be returning to his spawning grounds. Eventually, I expect him to take a slot on that council of 12, as soon as one of the 80+-year-olds dies of secret coffee withdrawal.

  104. @Greenstalk
    New Reader - Gather up your courage and fight back, fellas. We did.

    No, you didn't. A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not '"fight back" any more than blacks or women did.

    A very powerful and influential clique of people (not homosexuals) decided to both use you and to give you stuff as part of a project of their own. Gays did not ‘”fight back” any more than blacks or women did.

    The same could be said of, say, the French deciding to come to the aid of the colonists, providing critically needed support at the right time. So I guess we can write off all that Valley Forge crap as myth. As for blacks, they in fact did fight for their rights. But it’s also true that they received critical help from the Jews who established the NAACP “as part of a project of their own.”

    I’m grateful to those who fought for the individual rights of Americans, regardless of the time and regardless of who might have helped — or frankly, why they might have helped. So the colonists were the beneficiaries of European power politics of the 18th century. Let’s raise a toast to European power politics of the 18th century, then.

    That much said, in conversations with the (very) occasional militant gay tribesman I meet here or there (actually, for every militant gay male tribesman there are probably five militant lesbian tribeswomen, which is great but would be even better if they’d back down on the “T” part of GLBT), I take pains to point out that, for all the work and sacrifice made by gays of whatever gender, we wouldn’t have secured our rights but for the agreement and assistance of heterosexuals.

    Now, were those heterosexuals acting as part of a plot, either inchoate or tightly organizated, to undermine the West? Well, given that there have been tens of millions of straight supporters out there to one degree or another, I’m sure there are some who were bent on undermining something. (If pure motives are a prerequisite for anything, then there is a very, very, very long list of victories of all kinds that need to be invalidated for lack of pure motives on the part of some combatants.)

    But I think that most heterosexuals who sympathized with or actively helped gay people along the way were acting out of fairness and compassion. Silly me. Oops, I just said “silly.” Better butch it up here, eh?

  105. Something else.

    I think the biggest factor in support of “gay rights” is one that receives little attention in this context — the birth control pill. Which obviously has no direct connection for gays, but a very powerful indirect connection.

    Introduction of The Pill officially, overtly, and forever (as long as industrial society lasts, that is) cut the link between sex and reproduction. Ever since then, the decision to have kids has been pure choice. (By the way, I’m 100% in favor of the proposal by the Colorado wingnut to stick birth control pills on the drug store shelves, unprescribed. I consider abortion the last refuge of idiots, of which there seems to be no shortage.)

    To put it another way: The Pill made heterosexual sex into recreational sex. Once that happened, it became much tougher to deny the freedom to have sex to men who wanted to have it with men, and women who wanted to have it with women. The very nature and purpose of sex was changed by The Pill, and given the dynamic and freedom-loving nature of our society, it was a short step to changing how homosexuals were treated.

    If I could hop into a time machine and hand out compliments, among those I’d be seeking out would be the people who invented, manufactured, and distributed The Pill. I think it’s hard to overestimate how important it has been, and still is.

  106. @New Reader

    With respect, I don’t think heterosexuals are a tribe, and the reasons for this in part help to explain why the ‘tangled web’ that we find ourselves in does not really bear any comparison with the issues that the undoubted ‘tribe’ of homosexuals (at least in the post-Christian West) may face.
     
    Oh fer chrissakes, it was a figure of speech. If I'd known it would be that much of a problem for you, I'd have used "group" or "category." But something tells me you'd have been satisfied with nothing much less than "pack of evil faggots." So, okay, pack of evil faggots it is. Happy? Hey, I aim to please.

    It may just be that it wasn’t such a smart move for the Queer Tribe (of course there are those homosexuals who do not fit into this category) to seek to undermine the work of centuries of building.
     
    Well, there are at least 7 million American homosexuals, using the lowest estimate. I'm sure some of them want to undermine something, but I'm pretty confident in asserting that most of them just want to get on with their lives.

    in a civilisational sense, heterosexuality matters more. the desire of men and women to have sex and to have children is clearly the defining and necessary impulse of any society that hopes to perpetuate itself. If men and women are at war with each other then the whole of society, including the children and the elderly, will suffer in a way that society will not if gay men became disillusioned with other gay men.
     
    Well yes, all of that's true in the abstract. But this is the real world, where disillusionment is rife across all, ah, categories, including the pack of evil faggots. And from my observation and reading of literature, I'd say that men and women have always been "at war with each other."

    Does your “tribe” include lesbians, or is that a different tribe?

    • Replies: @New Reader

    Does your “tribe” include lesbians, or is that a different tribe?
     
    I vacillate on that one. How about non-kissing cousins?
  107. @Dave Pinsen
    She looks like she could be Matt Damon's niece. Or fey nephew.

    She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    Or Obama’s daughter.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    Or Obama’s daughter."

    There does almost appear to be some faint whiff of the octoroon about her.
  108. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Another thing to always expect in these cases (obviously might not be true in any particular one) is that she was a student in the process of flunking out. There’s a type of female student who seems to always have a relationship disaster at this exact moment, a convenient reason why she flunked out through no fault of her own. (Males have some similar patterns; poor fellow, he just had to sit in that tree all semester to save the environment.)

  109. @Jack D
    It's not Steve's fault that we live in an age of mental midgets. It's like what Gloria Swanson says in Sunset Boulevard when told she used to be a big star - "I AM big, it's the pictures that got small!". Nowadays the pictures have shrunken to fit on an iPhone and instead of great novels we have tweets.

    Steve is not the one who is tying the U Va (non)rape to this (non)rape - that was done by the president of U Va herself. I would agree with you that it's utterly ridiculous to connect an imaginary rape in Virginia with a failed romance in California, and if Steve had done it, you could call him out on it, but he didn't, it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted "victim" (or is it "survivor"?) from whom we should all learn important lessons (THREE important lessons, just as in any good fable), just as the young of an earlier age learned from the tribulations of Saints Perpetua and Felicity or young Soviets learned from the heroic labor of Stakhanov.

    We have always expected young'uns to be excitable, to fall victim to the trends of the moment, to be easily misled by charlatans. But it's a new development when this type of naive credulity extends to the very top. I would like to be cynical and say that the people in charge are not that dumb, that they know damn well that they are talking to an adventuress and not a rape victim and that they are using her for their own purposes, but I don't think so. As Steve says, these are people who have been deprived of the very vocabulary needed to analyze the situation and are only capable of framing it in familiar terms. Someone smarter would nevertheless sense that something was rotten, even if they didn't quite have the word for it, but Pres. Sullivan isn't that someone. Idiocracy is here, now.

    If I have seen farther than others, it’s because I’m knee-deep in dwarves. – Gregory Cochran

  110. @Bill P

    I saw the 6-inch long, half-inch deep scar on her lower back, made by her Muslim husband with a knife during one of her regular beatings. That is the Muslim treatment of women you hold dear.

    -Buzz Mohawk
     
    What were you doing looking at a married woman's naked back, praytell?

    “What were you doing looking at a married woman’s naked back, pray tell?”

    She had divorced and left her country to get away from her “husband” and his family. She had come to America, where I met her. She was living in a safe house, in fear of being kidnapped and taken back. We became friends, and I slept with her. Is that sufficient for your puritanical/prurient interest, “pray tell?” Or would you prefer that I had honored the forced Muslim marriage she had escaped in Kenya?

    • Replies: @Bill P
    It's just that when men are sleeping with women, it lends another dimension to stories told about the woman's former or lovers/husbands. Who hasn't heard a woman describe herself as a victim in her past relationships?

    And a safe house in the US? You've got to be kidding me... Do you think Al Qaeda would go after a runaway wife? She was probably filing for refugee status and using domestic violence as the angle, like almost 100% of the Central American women coming across the border last summer.

    But even if it's true, this is no reflection on Islam. Domestic violence happens all over the world, and no major religion actually condones it.

    And as for honoring the woman's marriage, I wouldn't sleep with a married woman regardless of the circumstances. If she says she's divorced, I'd want proof. I don't take adultery lightly, no matter how the woman might justify it.

    As the good book says:

    Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.
     
  111. @The most deplorable one

    I have personally witnessed, in more than one family and place, the kind of severe mistreatment and disrespect that some men can heap upon perfectly rational, intelligent women. I will not say where, but just that I have. It is as ugly as your logic.
     
    So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?

    “So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?”

    One was an Indian woman who had been forced into a Muslim marriage in her home country of Kenya. Not her choice at all.

    Another was a relative, in a totally WASP marriage, who somehow kept getting beat up by a drunk husband who refused to let her go out and get a job or do much of anything. She divorced him after serious injury, probably saving herself from something worse.

    One a “diverse” case, and the other not. Are you satisfied now, or do you still want to blame the women? These women I have already known and judged to be intelligent, rational and innocent.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Another was a relative, in a totally WASP marriage, who somehow kept getting beat up by a drunk husband who refused to let her go out and get a job or do much of anything. She divorced him after serious injury, probably saving herself from something worse.
     
    I looked up WASP Marriage and came upon this: Wives as Senior Partners but that doesn't seem to apply.

    So, it seems that one out of two of your anecdotes is a case of poor choice on the part of the woman? Have you considered that you seek out such women and pedestalize them?
  112. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "So, were they forced to accept that man by their parents/society or were they insufficiently judicious? Perhaps they simply believed the nonsense about diversity?"
     
    One was an Indian woman who had been forced into a Muslim marriage in her home country of Kenya. Not her choice at all.

    Another was a relative, in a totally WASP marriage, who somehow kept getting beat up by a drunk husband who refused to let her go out and get a job or do much of anything. She divorced him after serious injury, probably saving herself from something worse.

    One a "diverse" case, and the other not. Are you satisfied now, or do you still want to blame the women? These women I have already known and judged to be intelligent, rational and innocent.

    Another was a relative, in a totally WASP marriage, who somehow kept getting beat up by a drunk husband who refused to let her go out and get a job or do much of anything. She divorced him after serious injury, probably saving herself from something worse.

    I looked up WASP Marriage and came upon this: Wives as Senior Partners but that doesn’t seem to apply.

    So, it seems that one out of two of your anecdotes is a case of poor choice on the part of the woman? Have you considered that you seek out such women and pedestalize them?

  113. @Buzz Mohawk

    "What were you doing looking at a married woman’s naked back, pray tell?"
     
    She had divorced and left her country to get away from her "husband" and his family. She had come to America, where I met her. She was living in a safe house, in fear of being kidnapped and taken back. We became friends, and I slept with her. Is that sufficient for your puritanical/prurient interest, "pray tell?" Or would you prefer that I had honored the forced Muslim marriage she had escaped in Kenya?

    It’s just that when men are sleeping with women, it lends another dimension to stories told about the woman’s former or lovers/husbands. Who hasn’t heard a woman describe herself as a victim in her past relationships?

    And a safe house in the US? You’ve got to be kidding me… Do you think Al Qaeda would go after a runaway wife? She was probably filing for refugee status and using domestic violence as the angle, like almost 100% of the Central American women coming across the border last summer.

    But even if it’s true, this is no reflection on Islam. Domestic violence happens all over the world, and no major religion actually condones it.

    And as for honoring the woman’s marriage, I wouldn’t sleep with a married woman regardless of the circumstances. If she says she’s divorced, I’d want proof. I don’t take adultery lightly, no matter how the woman might justify it.

    As the good book says:

    Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

  114. @Twinkie

    Because I have all boys in the age group of 16-21, I have always told them not to marry anyone before 30-35 (after their grad school/after the idea of being “on the right path of what really interests you” has taken hold, after you have your own car, own place, own insurance; after seeing the world on foot if you must).
     
    I married very early, and I agree with Charles Murray here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624827/For-long-lasting-marriage-tie-knot-twenties-Social-scientist-says-getting-married-earlier-growing-makes-stronger-partnership.html

    I had a "startup" marriage. My wife and I grew (up) together and built a solitary identity as "us." While I was in graduate school, my wife sacrificed and worked, delaying her own graduate work, and while she worked on her doctorate, I sacrificed and worked outside the academia instead of taking my dream job at the time at a top university. We never even had a separate bank account and always did everything together. Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other. We really feel like one. There is just so long of a history we share, so many memories we made together, just as our own parents have (they all had "startup" marriages).

    When we see other people's "merger" marriages, we notice instantly the sense of separation that seems to exist in them (separate hobbies, separate bank accounts, separate friends, etc.), it seems very sad to us.

    Your marriage sounds wonderful…similar to my parents who moved several times across the Atlantic in pursuit of their careers. However, it is very unique. The first “real” love of my life died, so I was lucky to have finally met someone I had that connection with and married in my 30’s It can take a long time for that “connection” to happen for any people. I don’t think anyone should really judge when people should marry since there are so many variables. A good friend of mine married for the 1st time (never connected with anyone earlier – he is extremely shy) in his late 40’s…and he is forced to attend all those functions in elementary school these days – wonder if his kids are vaccinated? I would chew off my arm from a trap if I ever had to be a “room parent” again.

    I read the article but felt compelled to correct Murray on one glaring mistake: Bill Gates married very late…he’s the same age as my husband, but their children and his wife are much younger than mine or me.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Your marriage sounds wonderful…similar to my parents who moved several times across the Atlantic in pursuit of their careers. However, it is very unique.
     
    I appreciate the nice comment. Yes, it is. But I don't want others to think that it's perfect. My wife and I are both human beings, so we are highly flawed, and we have had our ups and downs like all other people. But we do have an unshakable faith in ourselves as "us" in one. And we have our parents and grandparents to thank for that - they set the mold. In fact, on my side of the family, there has never been a single divorce. None. Zero. On my wife' side, there has been only one person, an uncle, who has been divorced several times. He's the black sheep of the family. Otherwise, no divorce there either. My wife was taught from childhood that a virtuous woman gives herself body and soul only to her husband, an example set by both her mother and grandmothers. (Interestingly enough, she comes from the state with the lowest divorce rate in the country.)

    I don’t think anyone should really judge when people should marry since there are so many variables.
     
    I don't mean to judge the choices of others in when they marry. But I do think that well-educated, affluent people should encourage their children to marry early and stick to it. Of course, earlier marriages should NOT mean hasty or unwise marriages. I favor a relatively long courtship and an early marriage.
  115. @Reg Cæsar

    The rest of the Western World followed, and soon we had teen girls screaming at mop headed imitators on TV.
     
    "1950's"? "TV"?

    A classic episode of Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story" concerned one "Francis", a pop star of the '40s so magnetic that girls screamed and fainted at his concerts, and would even run up to him on train platforms with scissors in hand to get a lock of his hair.

    The bombshell at the end was that "Francis", the Forties' hottest idol, performed in the 1840s-- as Franz Liszt.

    This isn't a new phenomenon.

    The French band Phoenix (whose lead singer has a kid with Sophia Coppola) made a song about it: http://youtu.be/4BJDNw7o6so

  116. Now Jon Krakauer is on the campus rape beat.

    From The Missoulian:

    Jon Krakauer’s new book, “Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town,” will come out April 21, according to the bestselling author’s website.

    The book presents “a stark, powerful, meticulously reported narrative about a series of sexual assaults at the University of Montana – stories that illuminate the human drama behind the national plague of campus rape.”

    http://bit.ly/1D7zbza

  117. @Reg Cæsar

    [Scott Brown] and Mitt would have been an interesting duo.
     
    Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.

    “Interesting, yes, but unconstitutional.”

    This is a common misunderstanding. What the 12th Amendment actually states, is that if you have a Presidential and a Vice-Presidential nominee from the same state, Electors from his state may only vote for one or the other. So in the event of a Mitt Romney/Scott Brown ticket, and in the event such a ticket carried Massachusetts, the Bay State Electors would would only be able to vote for Romney-for-President, or Brown-for-Vice-President (but not both). Electors from other states would be free to vote for both of them.

  118. @Truth
    She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    Or Obama's daughter.

    “She looks like she could be Matt Damon’s niece. Or fey nephew.

    Or Obama’s daughter.”

    There does almost appear to be some faint whiff of the octoroon about her.

  119. @Jack D
    It's not Steve's fault that we live in an age of mental midgets. It's like what Gloria Swanson says in Sunset Boulevard when told she used to be a big star - "I AM big, it's the pictures that got small!". Nowadays the pictures have shrunken to fit on an iPhone and instead of great novels we have tweets.

    Steve is not the one who is tying the U Va (non)rape to this (non)rape - that was done by the president of U Va herself. I would agree with you that it's utterly ridiculous to connect an imaginary rape in Virginia with a failed romance in California, and if Steve had done it, you could call him out on it, but he didn't, it was the supposed adult in the room, the adulto di tutti adulti, the President of the University herself that was presiding over this farce. She was the one sitting there nodding sympathetically (did she do the head tilt? did she hand her a kleenex to wipe away the tears?) to the little league adventuress and publicly proclaiming her to be a sainted "victim" (or is it "survivor"?) from whom we should all learn important lessons (THREE important lessons, just as in any good fable), just as the young of an earlier age learned from the tribulations of Saints Perpetua and Felicity or young Soviets learned from the heroic labor of Stakhanov.

    We have always expected young'uns to be excitable, to fall victim to the trends of the moment, to be easily misled by charlatans. But it's a new development when this type of naive credulity extends to the very top. I would like to be cynical and say that the people in charge are not that dumb, that they know damn well that they are talking to an adventuress and not a rape victim and that they are using her for their own purposes, but I don't think so. As Steve says, these are people who have been deprived of the very vocabulary needed to analyze the situation and are only capable of framing it in familiar terms. Someone smarter would nevertheless sense that something was rotten, even if they didn't quite have the word for it, but Pres. Sullivan isn't that someone. Idiocracy is here, now.

    For president Sullivan to shine a “rape survivor” spotlight on this highly suspect accuser, and to refer uncritically to a “brutal rape” certainly makes one wonder about how Sullivan plans to CHANGE THE CULTURE at UVa. What needs to be changed is the foolish acceptance of accusations as facts by “leaders” who should know better.

  120. @Mike Sylwester
    In November, five African-American male students were arrested for sexual assault for an incident that occurred at William Paterson University in Paterson, New Jersey. Although all such sexual-assault cases are supposed to be investigated and processed by a special unit of Passaic County, the campus police force hastily submitted criminal charges against the five.

    On the basis of those hasty charges, university president Kathleen Waldron expelled the five summarily and made several inflammatory remarks about them publicly.

    In January, the grand jury heard the evidence and refused to indict any of the students for any crime. Nevertheless, the students remained expelled, waiting for the university's kangaroo-court proceedings to get underway. In the meantime, Waldron has not apologized for her public remarks.

    Now at least four of the students are initiating a lawsuit against Waldron, her university and her campus police.

    I live near Paterson, so I have been reading the articles published in my local newspaper, The Record. The following is from last Saturday's issue:

    .... “These young men have to live with being called criminals the rest of their lives,” said Michael J. Epstein, an attorney representing [two of the men] ....

    A Passaic County grand jury voted last month not to indict the men, all students at the university who have been barred from campus since their arrests.

    A spokeswoman for the university said Friday that officials would not comment on legal matters. ....

    The case is bound to trigger debate about whether campus police should independently handle any allegations of sexual assault, among the hardest cases to prosecute, defense attorneys and prosecutors agree. Instead, law enforcement experts say that dedicated sex crimes units, with continued training and detectives available around the clock, are more adept at such investigations.

    “The idea is to have these cases handled by a centralized, specialized unit where experts are trained at the statewide and national level rather than have training for officers in every town or at every college,” said Paul B. Brickfield, a former first assistant prosecutor for Bergen County and longtime defense attorney.

    “How many specialists can you have on a local police force?” Brickfield said. “This case sounds like a complicated factual scenario with multiple defendants that would generally call for special investigative action. It seems there was a rush to judgment.”

    The criminal complaint filed by the campus police alleged that four of the five students put the woman “in a condition of involuntary servitude,” turning off the lights and television and “standing in front of the victim and blocking” her. The teens allegedly conspired to commit sexual assault, according to the complaint.

    In a statement after the arrests, William Paterson President Kathleen M. Waldron expressed concern for the “courageous victim.” Waldron said she was “angry and dismayed that this crime was committed on our campus and allegedly by students.”

    In the notice filed Friday, Epstein said the university, Waldron, campus police and others failed to provide [students] Collick and Williams “with due process.” The notice also argues that university officials “failed to conduct a proper investigation, did not have adequate training and experience to conduct investigations into sexual assaults, failed to contact the Passaic County Prosecutor’s Office immediately so experts on allegations of sexual assault could conduct a proper investigation, issued warrants for Mr. Collick’s arrest without probable cause, and engaged in improper searches and seizures.”

    Epstein said Collick and Williams spent nine days in the Passaic County Jail with the general population, including five days in maximum security and four days in medium security.

    Ron Ricci, an attorney for Latimer, filed a separate notice of intent to sue the university for alleged violations of civil rights, “malicious” prosecution and violations of the state’s law against discrimination. The notice includes Waldron for claims of defamation and libel, Ricci said.

    “We absolutely think there was wrongful conduct,” Ricci said. “It’s egregious,” Epstein said regarding Waldron’s comments. “It’s actionable because she defamed their character and said there was criminal activity.” .....

    When the students were cleared, Waldron released a statement saying the university “has its own student conduct process that is independent of the state’s legal proceedings.” That process, she said, “would continue.”

    “It’s not clear if they are suspended or expelled,” Epstein said. “There has been no hearing.” The students would not participate, he said, given how the case has been handled so far. ....
     
    http://www.northjersey.com/news/3-william-paterson-students-cleared-in-alleged-sex-assault-file-claim-against-university-others-1.1266354

    That was worthless. How were they “cleared”?

  121. @Rifleman

    So not only was the primary subject of President Sullivan’s speech — Haven Monahan’s gang rape on broken glass — bogus, so was her spotlighted example: the Stanford coed being raped month after month by the zillionaire at five star hotels.
     
    She was also wrong here -

    Second, rape is not about sex. Her rape was about domination, anger, isolating your victim
     
    No. Rape is almost always about sex and the desire to have sex even when the other person wont consent.

    Why do so many feminist women not get that?

    My theory is first, they are lesbians and so horrified by heterosexuality they can't believe anybody could be motivated by heterosexual feelings. It could ONLY be power domination yada yada.

    Second that these feminists are on the autism spectrum and have a genetic/brain flaw inability to conceive of other people with motives unlike their own unless those motives are those of a monstrous "Other".

    Third, they are sheep-like idiots who repeat the same lies and misinformation.

    Bottom line to these left feminist - rape claims are always true, rape is only about power/anger/domination never non violent sexual desire and only White men rape.

    No. Rape is almost always about sex and the desire to have sex even when the other person wont consent.

    Why do so many feminist women not get that?

    They all “get it”. They just don’t know that they get it or admit that they get it. The fact that it’s about sex is the only thing that differentiates it from any other kind of battery. It’s the only thing that could possibly make it special or of interest to feminists.

  122. @Cagey Beast
    Wouldn't life be simpler for him, her and the rest of us if they'd just got married before she gave it up to him? Or - to be less idealistic - wouldn't it be easier if she wasn't demanding we punish him for taking her womanly virtue under false pretences while also demanding that we have no say in what she gets up to when she thinks there's a ring in it for her?

    Wouldn’t life be simpler for him, her and the rest of us if they’d just got married before she gave it up to him? Or – to be less idealistic – wouldn’t it be easier if she wasn’t demanding we punish him for taking her womanly virtue under false pretences while also demanding that we have no say in what she gets up to when she thinks there’s a ring in it for her?

    Exactly. There were reasons for our sexual conventions.

  123. @Oscar Peterson
    Does your "tribe" include lesbians, or is that a different tribe?

    Does your “tribe” include lesbians, or is that a different tribe?

    I vacillate on that one. How about non-kissing cousins?

  124. @AnotherDad
    Nice story Twinkie ...
    ... until you got to
    Our iPads have both of our e-mails on, and we have no secrets from each other.

    Seriously, grow a pair.

    Look i agree your path is the best path. If you are going to marry a girl--i.e. devote your life's labor to providing for her and her kids--you should at least get to enjoy her prime years of sexual attractiveness.

    But your wife doesn't need to see all your emails any more than she needs to listen to all your conversations with your friends over a beer. My wife's off somewhere or another with one of her friends, meeting more friends for lunch. I don't need to hear all those hens clucking. She doesn't need to read my emails to my buddies.

    Seriously, grow a pair.

    Sorry, I spent my “pair” shooting bad guys overseas and having a very large brood of children.

    It’s an interesting concept of masculinity – hiding stuff from your woman.

    Look, the iPads for my wife and me in my household have both of our e-mails on *for convenience* and also because we have no secrets with each other. That doesn’t mean we read each other’s e-mails as a habit.

    But it does come handy sometimes. I recently bid for a pre-war Walther PPK and was outbid and was oblivious to it. My wife noticed that on her iPad and called me to see if I’d want to exceed the latest bid. I authorized it. She went ahead and placed a new bid on my behalf.

    I now have another Walther PPK in 32 ACP with pre-war markings. I am happy.

    you should at least get to enjoy her prime years of sexual attractiveness.

    Marriage is both procreative *and* unitive, the latter being the harmonious, complementary synthesis of the male and the female into one. If one is blessed, a wife is not just a sex toy; she is a most loyal friend, a confidante, an advisor, and indeed an invaluable peek into the half of humanity…

    I’ve been very blessed, indeed!

  125. @Anonymous
    Twinkie confirmed for Japanese.

    Twinkie confirmed for Japanese.

    Do elaborate.

  126. @Flip
    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.

    While I don’t object to other people’s conceptions of love, that is an interesting definition of a “hero,” marrying a young women who is one’s daughter’s or even granddaughter’s age.

    • Replies: @Flip
    In the sense that he is a role model for other white middle aged men.
  127. @AnotherDad

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.
     
    And he's doing it in the US, not Thailand. With a quality--attractive, college educated--white girl. Making more white babies.

    (And its not because he's some sort of player who dumped his first wife. Unfortunately, Maggie Brimelow died of cancer in her early 50s.)

    Brimelow is a stud--as well as a champion of western civilization, and an sane man in insane times.

    And he’s doing it in the US, not Thailand. With a quality–attractive, college educated–white girl. Making more white babies.

    I do not know Mr. and Mrs. Brimelow, so I am only speaking hypothetically. But holding other variables constant, shouldn’t Mrs. Brimelow be breeding with men near her age? Men in their late sixties have poorer quality sperm and drastically increase the chance of birth defects and autism. Don’t you want the white babies to be high quality?

    And, as a father of young daughters, I can tell you that it’s no dream of mine for them to marry men who are their grandfather’s age.

    What’s going to happen to the 29 year-old wife in 30 years, when she hasn’t even bit 60 yet and the groom is either 97 or in the grave?

    While I agree that love can conquer call (which is why I would not judge these two folks whom I do not know), as a general statement, this is not a good recipe for a long, successful marriage between two partners, no?

  128. @Anton
    That is so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for you both.

    That is so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for you both.

    I’d try to explain to you about the incredible beauty of the Christian marriage, but I won’t since I know you are just “trolling” as kids say.

  129. @Lagertha
    Your marriage sounds wonderful...similar to my parents who moved several times across the Atlantic in pursuit of their careers. However, it is very unique. The first "real" love of my life died, so I was lucky to have finally met someone I had that connection with and married in my 30's It can take a long time for that "connection" to happen for any people. I don't think anyone should really judge when people should marry since there are so many variables. A good friend of mine married for the 1st time (never connected with anyone earlier - he is extremely shy) in his late 40's...and he is forced to attend all those functions in elementary school these days - wonder if his kids are vaccinated? I would chew off my arm from a trap if I ever had to be a "room parent" again.

    I read the article but felt compelled to correct Murray on one glaring mistake: Bill Gates married very late...he's the same age as my husband, but their children and his wife are much younger than mine or me.

    Your marriage sounds wonderful…similar to my parents who moved several times across the Atlantic in pursuit of their careers. However, it is very unique.

    I appreciate the nice comment. Yes, it is. But I don’t want others to think that it’s perfect. My wife and I are both human beings, so we are highly flawed, and we have had our ups and downs like all other people. But we do have an unshakable faith in ourselves as “us” in one. And we have our parents and grandparents to thank for that – they set the mold. In fact, on my side of the family, there has never been a single divorce. None. Zero. On my wife’ side, there has been only one person, an uncle, who has been divorced several times. He’s the black sheep of the family. Otherwise, no divorce there either. My wife was taught from childhood that a virtuous woman gives herself body and soul only to her husband, an example set by both her mother and grandmothers. (Interestingly enough, she comes from the state with the lowest divorce rate in the country.)

    I don’t think anyone should really judge when people should marry since there are so many variables.

    I don’t mean to judge the choices of others in when they marry. But I do think that well-educated, affluent people should encourage their children to marry early and stick to it. Of course, earlier marriages should NOT mean hasty or unwise marriages. I favor a relatively long courtship and an early marriage.

  130. @Twinkie

    Peter Brimelow just had another kid at age 67. His wife is about 29. This man is my hero.
     
    While I don't object to other people's conceptions of love, that is an interesting definition of a "hero," marrying a young women who is one's daughter's or even granddaughter's age.

    In the sense that he is a role model for other white middle aged men.

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