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From ESPN:
Some clinicians tasked with evaluating the eligibility of former NFL players for compensation from the league’s landmark 2013 concussion settlement worry that the testing process and protocols discriminate against Black players, an ABC News investigation published Wednesday has found.
The New York Times reported in August that two Black former players — defensive end Kevin Henry and running back Najeh Davenport — have filed a lawsuit against the NFL, accusing the league of “explicitly and deliberately” discriminating against Black players filing dementia-related claims.
At issue is a process called “race-norming,” which has been used by scientists for decades as a way to correct for the lower levels of education often found in minority communities. It was designed to prevent the overdiagnosis of cognitive impairment in these communities, but according to Henry and Davenport’s lawsuit, when applied to the NFL concussion settlement, it is having the opposite effect — making it more difficult for players to show cognitive decline.
No, race-norming is not having “the opposite effect,” it is having the same effect: it prevents “the overdiagnosis of cognitive impairment in these communities.” But we live in a Who? Whom? age, when the dominant question is “Is it good for the blacks?” So, to ESPN it seems like race-norming must be having the opposite effect, because (some) blacks want to have fewer blacks declared cognitively-impaired in one case, while (some) blacks want to have more blacks declared cognitively-impaired in the other case.
When former players file a claim for compensation, they undergo a battery of testing to measure their cognitive functioning. Those scores are compared against a baseline score, or “norm,” meant to represent a normal level of cognitive functioning. If the scores fall far enough below that norm, the player is eligible for compensation. But the norm for Black players is lower than the one for white players.
The underlying issue is the same one that brought UC Berkeley psychology professor Arthur Jensen into the study of IQ in the 1960s: Jensen was asked to look into the conundrum that IQ tests that had been found to be pretty accurate at confirming among whites that organically retarded “funny looking kids” with Down’s Syndrome and the like were, indeed, retarded, was puzzlingly identifying lots of normal-looking black kids who were accepted by other kids on the playground as normal as being retarded also.
Jensen’s investigation eventually determined that, indeed, a large fraction of whites who score under a 70 IQ are obviously organically retarded. On the other hand, because blacks average about a standard deviation lower in IQ, about one-sixth of blacks who don’t have Down’s Syndrome or the like score below 70. These are normal, healthy kids who just aren’t very bright.
But, Jensen found, IQ tests were equally valid at predicting the future achievements of both whites and blacks with low IQ scores, even if the causes of their IQs tended to be different.
The same issue came up in a 2002 Supreme Court ruling on the death penalty that nobody with an IQ below about 70 should be executed because, apparently, they are too dumb to understand “Thou shalt not kill.” Any relative of a Supreme Court Justice with an IQ below 70 is a Funny Looking Kid, but among the criminal element, normal people with IQs below 70 are not rare. An IQ score of 69 predicts future achievements as accurately for blacks as for whites, but the causes of the low IQ score tend to be different. The white kid is generally broken in some obvious sense, while the black kid is usually normal and healthy, just in the left part of the bell curve.
While adjusting for race is not a requirement for clinicians evaluating former players, according to ABC News, the manual outlining testing protocols recommends a “full demographic correction,” which includes age, gender and race.
I have a reasonable, constructive suggestion for what to do.
I’m highly sympathetic to the idea that the NFL give guys who knocked their brains out for my gladiatorial spectator pleasure some of the money they earned the NFL so they can be comfortable in their early dotage.
But, they don’t need to race-norm NFL players because they already have on record two different IQ-like test scores for each individual athlete before they entered the NFL.
- At the NFL combine for college senior draft prospects, everybody is given the Wonderlic IQ test. For example, among the Super Bowl quarterbacks, Tom Brady got 33 right out of 50, and Patrick Mahomes got 24 right. A score of 21 is the median and each additional right answer is the equivalent of two extra IQ points. So Mahomes scored a 106 IQ and Brady a 124. Quarterbacks who enjoy long, successful careers in the NFL usually have 3 digit IQs. (Here is a list of hundreds of NFL Wonderlic scores. Frank Gore, who rushed for 653 yards in 2020, his 16th as an NFL running back, appears to have started out in the NFL above the law, or below it, when it comes to the death penalty, and Lord knows where he is now after 8 seasons over 1,000 yards rushing and the third most carries in NFL history behind only Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton.)
- Similarly, almost all NFL players took either the SAT or ACT college admissions test when they were in high school. That’s more or less the equivalent of an IQ test.
So, just measure each plaintiff individually in terms of his decline from his IQ equivalent score at 18 and/or 22 years old.
Granted, I have no idea how they keep smart guys from successfully pretending to be dumb guys (Pat McInally, I’m looking at you), other than NFL players tend to be motivated by pride and dignity. But, assuming they’ve got that worked out, the NFL has no need to race-norm because they can individual-norm.
English
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Gibs…
There is a lot to digest on that list. Benjamin Watson, with a 48, would be IQ of 154? He’s pretty articulate and has his shit together, but….
An “average” score on the Wonderlic test probably doesn’t equate to an IQ score of 100 in the general population. It really is such an easy test… to such an extent that I have to assume that somebody with an IQ of 125 is probably answering almost every question correctly.
I wonder if NFL players do test prep for the Wonderlic before the combine. I also wonder if coaches give it any real weight in their player evaluations.Replies: @Barnard, @Anonymous Jew
Even organically low IQ people have a tough life. If I was designing what I call a fair system I would not race norm brain damage cases.
What adds the most unhappiness is being told there is more out there that you should have, and someone in power is keeping it from you.
Amazing that Terry Bradshaw did so well, considering…
Bradshaw is an extreme exception - he had a long career, got hit a lot, and at least one serious injury, but seems normal and healthy now.
You notice he is on TV all the time, the 100 retired, busted up QB’s who didn’t hold up so well, you don’t see them on camera much.Replies: @profnasty
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/559133-the-25-dumbest-players-in-nfl-history
Bradshaw is on the list. Aikman is not. I would give Warren Moon, Bret Favre, and Joe Namath honorable mention. Check out the Joe Theisman quote.
Jim Marshall's 60 yard fumble recovery return into his own end zone is in the top ten but that maybe would be better described as having a really bad day. Was there a pattern of dumbness in his case that didn't make the papers?
Bradshaw might not be that dumb as much as the victim of anti-rural-Louisiana prejudice. The man won a lot of games and of the group (Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Stallworth) was by far the best player as well as he might have been the first college player ever that was number one on every team's draft board. Before the draft I don't think anybody thought he was dumb.Replies: @Keypusher
This issue is systemic and requires more thoughtful action
As usual the problem is capitalism
It remains a simple fact that you already have to be brain damaged to want to play football in the first place.
“I know, I Know! Let’s slap a bunch of plastic crap on and run into each other as hard as possible for three or four hours!!”
“Sounds like awesome fun, what could go wrong?”
But there is an interesting point here- detecting a concussion in a 100 IQ individual has to be easier than a 70 IQ individual. Similarly, long term cognitive decline. I just can’t see anybody caring when it is NFL players, they tend to end up 100% shattered wrecks in the long run anyway.
ESPN :
Wow. Amazing this admission was published by ESPN in the current year.
Yeah, it's crimethink to even imagine this set of distributions in the Current Year:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/WAIS-IV_FSIQ_Scores_by_Race_and_Ethnicity.png
I believe Sherlock Holmes once quipped “I dislike exceptions, they disprove the rule”.
Bradshaw is an extreme exception – he had a long career, got hit a lot, and at least one serious injury, but seems normal and healthy now.
You notice he is on TV all the time, the 100 retired, busted up QB’s who didn’t hold up so well, you don’t see them on camera much.
Hence 'exception'. That is- exception to the rule.
Regarding plaintiff Davenport-this is from his Wikipedia page:
Prior to entering the NFL, Davenport allegedly broke into the dorm room of a Barry University woman and defecated in a laundry basket on April 1, 2002.
Anyone have a list of jobs (e.g. store manager) with Wonderlic ranges?
It’s quite simple.
1) Prohibit all Whites from participating in NFL, watching NFL or contributing to NFL financially.
2) Give the black players whatever they want, whenever they want.
3) Let black people decide how they wish to spend their own money.
Time Magazine’s latest cover story is an “If I Did It”-style “behind the scenes” of the alliance between “left-wing activists and powerful people” that “saved the 2020 election.
An excerpt:
“… a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information [were] not rigging the election, they were fortifying it.”
"In order to save democracy we had to destroy it"Replies: @Hypnotoad666
It's everything we knew was happening. But now they are crowing about it openly:
(1) The media was running planted, coordinated, centrally planned propaganda;
(2) The tech oligarchs agreed to systematically censor pro-Trump and anti-Biden information while promoting the planted narrative;
(3) The BLM activists are actually centrally-controlled actors who will show up when and where they are told by the cabal (and will stand down when instructed as well);
(4) Zuckerberg and other billionaires laundered $300 million to bribe, err, "support" the vote counters in Democratic cities in swing states.
(5) The Chamber of Commerce, the cheap labor lobby, and Rinos like "Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger" were also on the team to "save the election" from a Trump win.
And anyone who still thinks election fraud wasn't an additional insurance policy to "save our Democracy," should seek mental health counseling.
I was given to understand that concussion testing involved a baseline, non-concussed test from each player to set a benchmark.
How would race-norming affect this?
From what I’ve seen, life contentment and reported happiness is rather independent of income and intelligence.
What adds the most unhappiness is being told there is more out there that you should have, and someone in power is keeping it from you.
Another solution is to withold 15% of gross salaries in a “Medical Care Fund” which can be used in such cases. It could be tax-deferred. This has the additional benefits of lowering tax rates during the active years while setting aside funds for after retirement. This helps low-IQ Blacks who often cannot plan ahead or comprend thrift.
NFL players all know and accept before hand that they could be injured. They need to take responsibility.
There are two scores listed for Bradshaw, 15 & 16. Same as Jim Kelly and Dan Marino, respectively. Heath Shuler 16?? After football he was in the U.S. Congress.* Vinny Testaverde 17. Michael Vick 20??
Brett Favre 22?? Did you see him on with Tucker Carlson the other day?? It was painful.
*I wish they made members of the U.S. Congress take the Wonderlic. Here are some of my estimates of Congressional Wonderlic scores (I worked in D.C. as a liaison for MOC and personally interacted with many of them):
Interesting that WR Calvin Johnson scored a 41. He went to Georgia Tech, which is is one of the best STEM schools in the country, and is relatively small for a public university. This means there aren’t many majors or classes for GT to “hide” their athletes. This is why they lag in recruiting compared to their hated in-state rival UGA and most of their conference rivals, like Clemson. In recent history, they’ve managed to stay somewhat competitive in football by playing a triple-option offense, similar to what the high-IQ service academies play to keep up with more talented teams.
This article really has it all for the current time.
— “‘race-norming,’ which has been used by scientists for decades as a way to correct for the lower levels of education…” Er, it’s not the lower level of education being controlled for.
— One tester said, “As a group we could have been better advocates.” Isn’t their job to follow the science, to conduct an objective test using the defined protocols?
— Seems like these testers, to their credit, have been (until now) anti-ambulence-chasers, and the result of this investigation and lawsuit will be the typical corruption that is seeping into all of our society’s professions: “The neuropsychologist examining a player should use their professional judgment to select the appropriate demographic adjustments to apply to the player’s test results.” I would think that the incentive would be to get the former players the maximium gibs. It’s not like its anyone’s money other than some deep-pocketed corporation. From now on, whatever, just sign the form and get the payout.
The whole point is that they are DAMAGE cases. You are paying people because they have been cognitively DAMAGED by their football career. If you are just as dumb as you were when you started, then the NFL doesn’t owe you anything for being dumb no matter how hard your life is.
Ryan Fitzpatrick also scored a near perfect 48. He went to Harvard (which I hadn’t realized), so maybe that’s not too surprising.
But here’s the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve’s conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his “leaked” score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren’t always who you would expect.
“As is the case for most incoming NFL rookies, Fitzpatrick took the Wonderlic test. Rumors have indicated that Fitzpatrick recorded a 50 on the test in nine minutes (Wonderlic std time is 12 minutes).
However, according to a The Wall Street Journal report that appeared in the September 30, 2005, edition, Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the exam, not a 50—still considered an exceptionally high score, but the claim that he completed the test in nine minutes is accurate.
Fitzpatrick has the highest Wonderlic Test score ever achieved among NFL quarterbacks.
The only player to earn a verified perfect score on the Wonderlic test was also a Harvard graduate: wide receiver/punter Pat McInally, who played his entire career with the Cincinnati Bengals.”
https://youtu.be/-32d4BFnbQAReplies: @Buffalo Joe
This is an interesting concept. I am intrigued.
Along these same lines, shouldn’t
Frisbee* disk golf scores be handicapped based on the poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? It’s only fair, man.This would be a real boon for statisticians too. Shouldn’t the graphical output of professional statisticians be normed based on how much time they spend indoors in unnatural lighting watching NFL to root for their fantasy guys, instead of getting outside in the sunshine and vitamin D?
.
* Ooops, don’t sue me. I own NOTHING!
You must have quite the entourage.
https://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/growweedeasy.com/files/1-pound-plant.jpg
☮
Pink Floyd didn’t need no Affirmative Action:
It’s Down Syndrome. Not Down’s .
As if the millions these guys pulled in, while playing what anyone with an IQ north of 60 should know is dangerous, was not enough.
Why don’t we bring back gladatorial combat to the death so that the players are clear of the consequences of their choices.
Mensa considers Wonderlic scores of 40 to be IQ 136, and they don’t consider the test to be meaningful above that, i.e. a score of 50 is also pegged at 136.
The average black IQ of 85 maps to 16/50 on Wonderlic. Ten IQ points below, IQ 75, is 5/50, which is where the test bottoms out for IQ prediction. Note: 25 percent of American blacks fall below IQ 75, so they don’t even register on the Wonderlic in terms of IQ prediction, beyond “below 75.”
I think the Wonderlic test is intended to be relatively easy questions but with a time limit that requires quick answers. So it’s more about thinking fast than deep.
I wonder if NFL players do test prep for the Wonderlic before the combine. I also wonder if coaches give it any real weight in their player evaluations.
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
Though I vehemently disagree with his politics, he’s put himself in a position where he makes a ton of money while doing very little work.
Comparison with an individual baseline is what they do now for high school students. Before the season starts they all go in for concusssion testing so that later if a kid gets hit they can test him again and compare. The funny thing about it is everything in public schools has to be done all-out following the latest bandwagon, so it isn’t just the football team being tested. If a kid is on the high school golf team or tennis team, he or she has to take a concussion baseline test.
Anyone who has heard a Lamar Jackson interview is not surprised
How hard would it be to cheat on the Wonderlic, if so inclined? Aren’t there answers one could memorize?
I could see players in certain positions wanting a higher score, and agents or insiders happy to oblige them.
And I could see some players wanting to game it so that it doesn’t come out too high or too low.
seems like it would be fairly simple to intentionally do poorly in the cognitive tests in order to qualify for the dementia-related claims. But maybe these players are not smart enough to figure this out. Do they also need to demonstrate actual brain abnormalities, which can be done with an MRI exam to find brain damage ?
Faking a cognitive test is easier than faking physical injuries and many people fake back and neck problems to gain compensation as accident victims or to gain disability benefits and retire early.. Sometimes they get caught shoveling snow and doing other activities which is used to prove they lied to get disability benefits. But when faking a cognitive test it would be difficult to prove they faked the test. Even people with dementia often are lucid for hours at a time, they have good days and bad days, so it would be difficult to prove that they tanked the test intentionally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0Replies: @Travis
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
When asked about Kaepernick, the test administrator remembered this: “Colin? Oh yeah I remember.. just the sweetest little Asian gal. Even said please and thank you.”
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
Kaepernik turned a rapidly fading football career into a lucrative and prestigious retirement. It’s a little like Trump, whatever you think about the guy, calling him dumb seems like it’s missing the point.
Along these same lines, shouldn't
Frisbee* disk golf scores be handicapped based on the poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? It's only fair, man.This would be a real boon for statisticians too. Shouldn't the graphical output of professional statisticians be normed based on how much time they spend indoors in unnatural lighting watching NFL to root for their fantasy guys, instead of getting outside in the sunshine and vitamin D?
.
* Ooops, don't sue me. I own NOTHING!Replies: @anon, @TWS, @Adam Smith
Along these same lines, shouldn’t Frisbee * disk golf scores be handicapped based on the poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? It’s only fair, man.
Sure, for ancient hippy burnouts. Oh, and Libertarians, of course.
OT:
https://twitter.com/i/events/1357639781166047234
Population in most competitive property and job market in Europe declines by 10%, bringing it back in line almost to where it was pre-2004 EU enlargement. Economist thinks this is a bad thing. Not clear how much was due to Brexit and how much due to Covid in terms of convincing EU migrants to leave or how much churn is in play and which Covid blocked new migrants. (EU migrants would be overreprented in terms of shop assistants/restaurant staff and construction)
Don’t worry boys, Boris will have all those slots filled by Kongers in no time and rocket up the average rent to the moon. At least they’ll be more pleasant than East Europeans but the London professional classes better start preparing for their children being displaced. (Except maybe Law and Finance.)
I look forward to in 30 years time hearing about all the rampant discrimination against Chinese people in Britain since ancient times.
“On the other hand, because blacks average about a standard deviation lower in IQ, about one-sixth of blacks who don’t have Down’s Syndrome or the like score below 70. These are normal, healthy kids who just aren’t very bright.”
Just a slightly OT thought: All testing needs to be racially normed, including developmental milestones for children, since black children speak and walk earlier than white children. We already know that boys speak later than girls, but white boys probably speak even later on average. I suspect that part of the explosion in autism is due to measuring white toddlers, especially boys, by speech milestones that would be normal for black children.
Nope. It’s all caused by white racism/the environment, you see.
A standard method is to look for people intentionally throwing questions. Someone pretending to be retarded will answer the really easy questions correctly, the really hard ones at chance(since they really don’t know the answer), and, for the ones they intentionally throw, will do worse than chance.
Is the NFL also adjusting for the positions played based on frequency of contact? It may be amusing for some people to make the argument that if a Black has suffered brain injury, how can you tell the difference, but snark aside, it would seem reasonable that statistically Black players would have a higher incidence of concussion trauma than Whites. From my admittedly limited viewing of sports, Whites tend to play those positions where they take fewer hits during their career such as Quarterback, Kicker, and Bench.
As blacks in general are faster than the white players, they also have a tendency to dominate those positions that result in high speed collision.
The defensive secondary and wide receiver positions come to mind. Offensive line, not so much.
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
But here’s the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve’s conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
Seems a bit high but merely my opinion based on hearing him speak.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his “leaked” score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
IQ is not the same thing as common sense. There are people with high IQ’s who believe in astrology or even liberalism.
Twin studies.
When are lawyer-dominated, state legislatures going to OK lawyer-ambulance chaser lawsuits, against State U (taxpayers), for injuries sustained by U’s football players?
Ask those state disability program bureaucrats. A busted-up knee/head must be worth a 10/0% disability.
Once again, taxpayers — many of whom oppose Big sports — will get blown away as collateral damage.
(All the ruined NBA knees, MLB arms, etc. must be worth a lot, too.)
From my admittedly limited viewing of sports, Whites tend to play those positions where they take fewer hits during their career such as Quarterback, Kicker, and Bench.
As blacks in general are faster than the white players, they also have a tendency to dominate those positions that result in high speed collision.
The defensive secondary and wide receiver positions come to mind. Offensive line, not so much.
After watching the ESPN 30 for 30 episode “Broke,” I’m of the opinion that the NFL and the NFLPA should agree to provide a substantial chunk of the players’ salaries as deferred compensation (before accounting for head traumas).
Even if they were all of average intelligence, the idea that men of 22 years of age are going to have the wherewithal to be fiscally responsible with money that they will only earn for a very brief window of time in their lives (after which the overwhelming majority will be able to earn only a small fraction of what they earned while playing) is absurd. Deferring compensation with an annuity payment like benefit would be preferable to these guys blowing through millions of dollars on stuff that 20 something high testosterone men like (wine, women, cars, gold chains, etc), and then one day waking up in penury. There would still be enough present compensation to live well or be stupid, but it just makes sense for there to be a substantial benefit to carry them through the rest of adulthood.
Even when the 2o something NFL players were told they were “investing” their money, the investments usually took the form of some scheme calculated to separate them from their money.
Heck, I did reasonably well on my SATs, but if you gave me several million and some fame at 22 I could imagine bad things happening. Financial or otherwise.
I wonder if NFL players do test prep for the Wonderlic before the combine. I also wonder if coaches give it any real weight in their player evaluations.Replies: @Barnard, @Anonymous Jew
I agree. It is designed to give good scores for quick thinking, kind of like a successful contestant on Jeopardy will be able to think of an educated guess quickly. Football players have to react very quickly, I can see why they would want to test for quick thinking rather than purely IQ.
I expect to see an eventual return of the Ming dynasty as the Chinese eventually take over everything.
Dude. Go easy on the low-IQ guys mkay?
Amazing this admission was published by ESPN in the current year.
Yeah, it’s crimethink to even imagine this set of distributions in the Current Year:
Do people still watch college football and the NFL? IF you are White and you still watch college or pro football, IQ scores aside, you are a moron. From my experience most people who brag about their IQ scores, (where do these people get tested and who does the testing) are just about worthless in any endeavor in the real world. Allegedly Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton ranked at the top of IQ scores among our former Presidents for what that is worth.
He wouldn't get into Georgetown for undergrad today and wouldn't sniff Yale law school. He got something like a 90th percentile LSATReplies: @David In TN
Along these same lines, shouldn't
Frisbee* disk golf scores be handicapped based on the poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? It's only fair, man.This would be a real boon for statisticians too. Shouldn't the graphical output of professional statisticians be normed based on how much time they spend indoors in unnatural lighting watching NFL to root for their fantasy guys, instead of getting outside in the sunshine and vitamin D?
.
* Ooops, don't sue me. I own NOTHING!Replies: @anon, @TWS, @Adam Smith
Despite the actions of x game athletes, weed is not a PED.
A few years ago I took the Wonderlic IQ test online. Figuring it was just a dumb-jock test, I raced through it without giving it sufficient attention. I flunked. This shattered my dream of becoming an NFL linebacker. Another impediment is that I never learned the meaning of technical football terms like “down” and “linebacker”.
Thanks, Steve. This post is an excellent real-world example and exposition of the HBD explanation for racial group performance differences. It also circles back to the difference between looking at individuals vs groups. It’s also about a popular American sport.
I’d like to suggest that it is an excellent approach we might use to introduce these critical concepts to any amenable football fans we might encounter this weekend (or any other time), should the opportunity present itself.
This is very true. Some ideas are so dumb that you need a high-IQ and years of advanced education to convince yourself to believe in them.
IDK, in the US east-Asians don’t see themselves as victims so much. And HK people’s complaints against the UK I think are more “why did you abandon us?!” vs “why did you colonize us?”
It might wear off after a while (like, e.g. many young South Koreans reportedly don’t see the Korean War, the Birth and the US presence the way their grand parents did) but I’m hopeful that the east asian integration dynamic in the West will continue to be very different than the black one. For one thing, the group HBD differences being discussed in this thread suggest Asians won’t have the financial underperformance and criminal overperformance issues that really fuel the strife.
Remember that American Asian girl who wrote a whole slam poem about how JK Rowling was racist when she wrote the character of Cho Chan? (Who in the films was weirdly played by a Chinese girl from Scotland who definitely didn't have a Chinese first name as would virtually no Chinese born in a Western country born before 2005, though I'm not sure if the character was from Glasgow in the original.) Nobody told her to do that, to go on stage and perform that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Q8Xobzk-MReplies: @Anonymous
“organically retarded”
Four years high school and one year Cal State Dropout: I played all the offensive line positions. Center, especially for punts, was the worst of it. Although I clearly remember two full contact drill sessions at practice where, in hindsight, I stumbled away from the field with concussion symptoms. But this was in the mid-1980s when the ‘walk it off’ prescription was in use. Though I was still able to function in an at times high-stress position in the USCG after my time on the gridiron. Football is a dumb sport; even dumber than basketball. Fathers, do not let your sons play football. It made me synthetically retarded.
No, not in the least. It detracts from good playing just like the concussions detract from IQ. Maybe my analogy just sucks.
Google on (list dumbest quarterbacks nfl hall of fame) did not return what I was searching for. It did have the following article:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/559133-the-25-dumbest-players-in-nfl-history
Bradshaw is on the list. Aikman is not. I would give Warren Moon, Bret Favre, and Joe Namath honorable mention. Check out the Joe Theisman quote.
Jim Marshall’s 60 yard fumble recovery return into his own end zone is in the top ten but that maybe would be better described as having a really bad day. Was there a pattern of dumbness in his case that didn’t make the papers?
Bradshaw might not be that dumb as much as the victim of anti-rural-Louisiana prejudice. The man won a lot of games and of the group (Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Stallworth) was by far the best player as well as he might have been the first college player ever that was number one on every team’s draft board. Before the draft I don’t think anybody thought he was dumb.
He had a bad play, not a bad day. He played very well in that game, as he’s pointed out.
Marshall is featured in this excellent documentary about the 1969 Vikings. He doesn’t come across as a genius or anything, but high character and very personable. His teammates and coach loved him.
https://youtu.be/7UMVy0-ZjPc
They are.
Or do you think they are paid for their intellectual contributions to the sport?
So he retook the test again in his late 40s and after six (Confirmed or personally suspected) career concussions and only got one question wrong. I wonder if the kinds of guys who go into the NFL is just so self-selected now given that if you’re intelligent there aren’t a lot of barriers to you going into a career path of using it (Or using it to pass test to get a job a person of average or even below average intelligence could do just as well) as opposed to many decades ago when class was more of a rigid barrier. The same could be said for any professional sport. How many Pat McInallys or Jeremy Lins are there today?
There's an old saying, which I've found to be very true: "Every man complains of his luck, but no one of his judgement."
I wonder if NFL players do test prep for the Wonderlic before the combine. I also wonder if coaches give it any real weight in their player evaluations.Replies: @Barnard, @Anonymous Jew
There is, obviously, a correlation between time to complete relatively easy questions and G, but I also wonder about the overall predictive value of the test, especially at the high end. Nothing against Tom Brady, but 125 seems pretty high for him. That’s doctor territory if you’re willing to grind. On the other hand, Mahomes does strike me as a very average guy at everything outside of sports.
If any ethnic community is sufficiently large and alien it will find grievances, particularly if it is highly upwardly mobile into elite positions. You’re looking at the actual Hong Kongers living in Hong Kong where there is a very different context (And a big class component to it too) to all that. It’s their British-born descendants who will be born into a different context and will thus adopt different postures.
Remember that American Asian girl who wrote a whole slam poem about how JK Rowling was racist when she wrote the character of Cho Chan? (Who in the films was weirdly played by a Chinese girl from Scotland who definitely didn’t have a Chinese first name as would virtually no Chinese born in a Western country born before 2005, though I’m not sure if the character was from Glasgow in the original.) Nobody told her to do that, to go on stage and perform that.
This is very true. Some ideas are so dumb that you need a high-IQ and years of advanced education to convince yourself to believe in them.
Someone asked an intelligence gene denier a question along that line during a book release Q&A. I think the author was Gould. He asked how high of an iq does it take to write a book about how intelligence doesn’t exist. There was no response.
Even if they were all of average intelligence, the idea that men of 22 years of age are going to have the wherewithal to be fiscally responsible with money that they will only earn for a very brief window of time in their lives (after which the overwhelming majority will be able to earn only a small fraction of what they earned while playing) is absurd. Deferring compensation with an annuity payment like benefit would be preferable to these guys blowing through millions of dollars on stuff that 20 something high testosterone men like (wine, women, cars, gold chains, etc), and then one day waking up in penury. There would still be enough present compensation to live well or be stupid, but it just makes sense for there to be a substantial benefit to carry them through the rest of adulthood.
Even when the 2o something NFL players were told they were "investing" their money, the investments usually took the form of some scheme calculated to separate them from their money.Replies: @Anonymous Jew, @Buffalo Joe
Agree. Even with an IQ of 115-120, being 22 with a high testosterone level, famous and with a multimillion dollar paycheck (that will dry up in a decade or less) is a recipe for disaster.
Heck, I did reasonably well on my SATs, but if you gave me several million and some fame at 22 I could imagine bad things happening. Financial or otherwise.
Just a slightly OT thought: All testing needs to be racially normed, including developmental milestones for children, since black children speak and walk earlier than white children. We already know that boys speak later than girls, but white boys probably speak even later on average. I suspect that part of the explosion in autism is due to measuring white toddlers, especially boys, by speech milestones that would be normal for black children.Replies: @Spangel123
Do you have data on this? I read a long time ago that black children reach numerous physical milestones earlier, including semi-complex tasks like potty training. Thus, the cognitive gap does not actually emerge in infancy, but between ages 2-5. But I never heard that black children speak earlier. I would have assumed they reached verbal milestones later.
He’s very dumb. His muslim gf orchestrated all the BS.
There’s a guy on Twitter that has a 186 IQ. He’s also very tall 6’ 2”. Quite impressive.
Black players would have a higher incidence of concussion trauma than Whites. From my admittedly limited viewing of sports, Whites tend to play those positions where they take fewer hits during their career such as Quarterback, Kicker, and Bench.
There is some truth to this.
White families don’t encourage their kids to become defensive lineman. They can only play for so long and they take a lot of damage. But the other side is that football is actually ignored by most White families in urban areas. Sometimes Whites have to take their kids outside the city to find a league. Urban Whites put their kids in soccer, lacrosse and sometimes baseball. ‘
The same is true for boxing. People talk about how Blacks dominate boxing but that is only half the story. White people just don’t put their kids in it anymore. It isn’t viewed as being worth the risk. The boxing clubs are all in urban areas and mostly exist to keep Blacks and Hispanics off the streets. Rural Whites don’t have the option of boxing even if they wanted it. Whites are much more likely to view sports as something to keep kids and teens occupied while teaching values like cooperation.
Blacks however view sports as their way to wealth. In junior football the kids can be really nasty because their parents have impressed that it isn’t just a game to them. High school football can be really dangerous because they will pair a small White school against some ghetto school with full grown Blacks looking to prove how ruthless they are. It’s really stupid and they will do this just for an exhibition game. All these dumb schools are still following pre-integration football brackets. It’s downright dangerous but it’s the government and related to race so no surprise.
“Should the NFL race-norm IQ test scores?”
Yes. Also 40-yd dash times.
i posted about this a few times already. under NFL rules, african players come back from concussions faster, because you only need to return to a certain level of mental facility that’s a fraction of your baseline ability. the african players are less smart, so there’s less intelligence to knock out of their heads with concussions. when they get concussed, they don’t have to show much ability on the concussion tests to be right back to where the were before getting hit in the head.
so the rules have always helped them during their careers. yeah, that might be worse for them long term, but who cares about that, unless you’re a lawyer.
Mahomes came back in 1 week after getting a concussion in the Browns game – not sure i’ve ever seen a quarterback come back from a concussion after 1 week, under current NFL rules, post CTE lawsuit era. this happened regularly pre CTE lawsuit of course.
for the record i don’t care about ANY football player’s long term health. they absolutely, positively know what they’re signing up for, and get paid millions of dollars to do it, and get famous for playing a sport. i don’t care if their bodies get smashed and their brains get turned into mush. most guys would trade places with them without having to think about it. i’ll take the 10 million dollars a year and the fame and the ferrari and the women, the former NFL guy can go sit in a cubicle for the next 40 years, getting paid nothing and never even talking to a model, wondering if he can ever afford a house or that payment on his used truck.
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
I think a missing element is memory. Somebody can do quite well on an IQ test (Which only tests short term memory and theoretically mental processing) but if they have poor memory, may not seem as intelligent because they don’t remember or retain information over their lifetime as well.
Kaepernik does seem to have a level of intelligence that is above average, he seems very thoughtful even if his expression of racial grievance seems very conceited. But that kind and style of conceitedness is rather high IQ. It’s a kind of weird post-modern and thoughtful conceitedness. It’s not the kind of thing a dumb person would do. There is thought and strategy to what he is doing, it’s not impulsive.
Most post-modern painters work was quite dumb, but it was a kind of dumbness that only a high IQ person would engage in.
There was a Washington Post article very well documented about wonderlic. Conclusion was there is no relation among players between IQ and performance.
What the article failed to notice is that :
– black players average IQ is 97 versus 83 for Afro American . Almost one full grade above their average.
– there is 15 IQ points difference among QB and TE one hog end and RB and WR on the low end.
Wich means among athletes, If you guesstimates a selection among blacks at 1 in 10k level, IQ has a 30% impact on selection. It’s compatible with some 75 IQ players
Steve
Off topic slightly:
Perhaps all we should be discussing on iSteve is the passage 1965 Immigration Reform Act and it’s very nasty consequences:the complete nullification of the Historic Native Born White American Working Class Majority Vote at POTUS election time.
It was the fatal blow which was meant to destroy us and has now irremediably done so.
I understood that when it happened (I was 17) and have been filled with disgust ever since that so many of its intended victims did not.Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @anon
this reminds me of the NBA lawsuits where the class action suit idea was that forcing players to be 19 to enter the draft was aimed at discriminating against africans, because at the time only 2 or 3 players ever who weren’t africans were drafted directly out of high school. fortunately that effort failed – the rule was really about the owners protecting themselves from expensive first round busts with guaranteed contracts, who had been common for decades by the time of the rule.
contra the lawsuit, lots of players from europe would have been drafted at 18 by now were it not for the rule.
Maybe they should start playing Sarcastaball .
It sounds like the clinicians are woke:
Maybe the clinicians should be explicitly asked, in their expert opinions, how much a player’s cognitive ability has fallen since enterring pro football. In other words, in their expert opinion, is the players cognitive ability nontrivially lower than it was before.
“Racial inequity in payouts” means equality of outcome, so these woke clinicians are pushing for the same monetary payouts, no matter what the drop in smarts.
Nowhere is cognitive impairment more sadly evident than at the USA Today sports desk, where white columnist Nancy Armour dials up a weak-side blitz to sack Tom Brady for his white privilege.
https://summit.news/2021/02/04/usa-today-op-ed-denounces-tom-brady-for-being-white/
Without actually following the NFL you can tell when The Big Game is approaching, as these various woke angles proliferate in the sports and mainstream media. Blacks are exploited, women are objectified, coaches are too white and whatever else is in the media playbook
Clinton being “brilliant” is peak boomer flame.
He wouldn’t get into Georgetown for undergrad today and wouldn’t sniff Yale law school. He got something like a 90th percentile LSAT
I recall during the Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky imbroglio, a liberal columnist (don't recall the name) declared it was time to stop talking about Clinton's supposed superhuman intelligence.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Is there study of IQ by age? I’ve not seen this; I suspect because smart neuro-aware professionals prefer not to know about their own cognitive decline with age.
Should Brady be expected to maintain his cognitive capacity over the past 20 years ?
BTW I posted this here last year but it is sort of on topic again :
https://www.darkmoon.me/2012/world-iq-figures-a-complete-chart-with-notes-and-comments/
Much less to Mensa. They haven’t accepted the SAT since 1994, the ACT since 1989.
https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/
As silly as Mensa may seem, they have always been dead serious about admission standards.
Prior to entering the NFL, Davenport allegedly broke into the dorm room of a Barry University woman and defecated in a laundry basket on April 1, 2002.Replies: @Father O'Hara
So?
I think they will too. But then, there are many kinds of intelligence and no one seems to possess all of them. For example, there’s a kind that tells you it may be time to keep your head down so you don’t end up in the Gulag. But that may be savvy, or common sense, or survival instinct.
There’s an old saying, which I’ve found to be very true: “Every man complains of his luck, but no one of his judgement.”
Remember that American Asian girl who wrote a whole slam poem about how JK Rowling was racist when she wrote the character of Cho Chan? (Who in the films was weirdly played by a Chinese girl from Scotland who definitely didn't have a Chinese first name as would virtually no Chinese born in a Western country born before 2005, though I'm not sure if the character was from Glasgow in the original.) Nobody told her to do that, to go on stage and perform that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Q8Xobzk-MReplies: @Anonymous
Oh, I remember.
On behalf of all good Americans, EFF that angry Chinese Poetry Dyke!
Asian names are fun!
Always HAVE been.
Always WILL be!!
Muhammad Ali was initially rejected for military service due to his low IQ. Many years later after repeated blows to his head, did anyone reasonably expect his IQ to rise above already established “moron” level?
He, like Barry Sanders, was smart enough to retire before any more damage could be done.
https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/
As silly as Mensa may seem, they have always been dead serious about admission standards.Replies: @Anon
The late Christopher Hitchens in Vanity Fair:
When your analytical philosophy tutor was Sir Anthony Kenny, FBA, Master of Balliol College, Oxford— which for Hitchens it was— you have to already know you’re at the highest level of the cognitive elite.
(I say this despite having points of commonality in worldview - e.g., 'Hitch' being one of the '4 Horsemen' of the modern atheist movement when he was still alive. For the life of me I cannot comprehend why Dawkins ever thought Hitchens was worth the time of day: Hitch's schtick was just as pedestrian and unoriginal as his brother's).Replies: @Old Palo Altan
Roger Goodell, the NFL League Commissioner made about $20 million in 2019, without bonuses. The minimun pay for an NFL active roster player is $610,000. In my 25 years as an Ironworker I suffered at least 4 concusions, one fall hospitalizing me for 16 days. Injured NFL players qualify for Workers’ Comp, so did I. My guess is I am brain damaged otherwise I wouldn’t be commenting here at iSteve. Where’s my money?
Female football journalism is pretty weird. Normally the people who go into sports journalism had an earlier life as a participant and there really is no such thing as female youth football so they don’t have any firsthand experience of what they are reporting on. I know of one woman sportswriter who covers football who I can tell is not a complete fraud. The ESPN writer who covers the Houston Texans.
If you are the slightest bit selective you might find that sports journalism is like business journalism and weather journalism. It is mostly honest. It is a distinctively different beast from political journalism which is lies plastered with bullshit almost all. People here post all the time that sports is stupid and we should ignore all of it, but it is near to the only thing that can be discussed openly where there is a common base of true facts.
Then there is the guy at the fix is in who claims the whole thing is fake but his track record for predicting is a lot worse than looking at the board in Las Vegas. Chiefs by 3? It should be a close game. Buccaneers have got a decent .42-.48 chance to win this thing. Tom Brady fans (there are millions of these people) should have a fun time! If Tampa Bay wins after winning three consecutive road playoff games and two consecutive upset playoff wins it will be a feat.
https://www.thefixisin.net/the-2020-nfl-season
What is the white IQ if you take out the truly retarded – the genetically impaired?
Somewhat bizarrely – at least at the HS level – it basically works the way you recommend – they take the test before season so that there’s an individual baseline for during/after. Kinda weird that’s not already done but surprises.
Stop using S A T scores as an equalilent for I .Q. scores .It isn’t. Onward brownshirts.
“I know, I Know! Let’s slap a bunch of plastic crap on and run into each other as hard as possible for three or four hours!!”
“Sounds like awesome fun, what could go wrong?”
But there is an interesting point here- detecting a concussion in a 100 IQ individual has to be easier than a 70 IQ individual. Similarly, long term cognitive decline. I just can’t see anybody caring when it is NFL players, they tend to end up 100% shattered wrecks in the long run anyway.Replies: @james wilson
“It remains a simple fact that you already have to be brain damaged to want to play football in the first place.” The punters apparently agree with you. One scored a 50. On the other hand the quarterbacks did well, but the rules are designed to protect them. Wide receivers are by far the stupidist athletes and they also lead in concussions, but will anyone notice?
A fatal mistake of someone wanting to be diagnosed as mentally impaired is to bring a visible smartphone to the diagnostic meeting. The smartphone implies technical expertise, as well as having an interesting, important, and urgent social network to manage. If I were the applicant, what I would place down on the table is a flip-phone.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/559133-the-25-dumbest-players-in-nfl-history
Bradshaw is on the list. Aikman is not. I would give Warren Moon, Bret Favre, and Joe Namath honorable mention. Check out the Joe Theisman quote.
Jim Marshall's 60 yard fumble recovery return into his own end zone is in the top ten but that maybe would be better described as having a really bad day. Was there a pattern of dumbness in his case that didn't make the papers?
Bradshaw might not be that dumb as much as the victim of anti-rural-Louisiana prejudice. The man won a lot of games and of the group (Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Stallworth) was by far the best player as well as he might have been the first college player ever that was number one on every team's draft board. Before the draft I don't think anybody thought he was dumb.Replies: @Keypusher
“Jim Marshall’s 60 yard fumble recovery return into his own end zone is in the top ten but that maybe would be better described as having a really bad day. Was there a pattern of dumbness in his case that didn’t make the papers?”
He had a bad play, not a bad day. He played very well in that game, as he’s pointed out.
Marshall is featured in this excellent documentary about the 1969 Vikings. He doesn’t come across as a genius or anything, but high character and very personable. His teammates and coach loved him.
I wonder if this explains the McDonald Downs Syndrome Effect: the mentally-retarded white McDonald’s employee is always more skilled, more knowledgeable, nicer, and, yes, smarter than his normal-looking black compatriots. I’ve always ascribed this to lack of motivation on the part of the black employees, but now I wonder.
What’s the entire list? Care to share it? I’d be interested to hear some of your impressions of these people.
Faking a cognitive test is easier than faking physical injuries and many people fake back and neck problems to gain compensation as accident victims or to gain disability benefits and retire early.. Sometimes they get caught shoveling snow and doing other activities which is used to prove they lied to get disability benefits. But when faking a cognitive test it would be difficult to prove they faked the test. Even people with dementia often are lucid for hours at a time, they have good days and bad days, so it would be difficult to prove that they tanked the test intentionally.Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
Can’t they claim they just got better?
An excerpt:
“... a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information [were] not rigging the election, they were fortifying it.”Replies: @Alden, @YetAnotherAnon, @Hypnotoad666
I read some of the Time article on freerepublic. A nasty coalition of everything from chamber of commerce AFL CIO BLM SPLC Mostly used covid hoax as an excuse for mail in voting.
An excerpt:
“... a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information [were] not rigging the election, they were fortifying it.”Replies: @Alden, @YetAnotherAnon, @Hypnotoad666
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
Steal the election = “protect the election”.
“In order to save democracy we had to destroy it”
It's too bad Steve doesn't do election stories, this one is really full of rich material.
https://babylonbee.com/news/casino-claims-they-didnt-rig-the-slot-machines-they-just-fortified-them
If ‘Hitch’ was so fucking brilliant, explain why he got a Third. (That’s like a legacy Gentleman’s C in the Ivies). He had to go to the US – to the much shallower pool, where an accent and self-promotion is enough – to have a shot at being a Public Interleck-shual.
(I say this despite having points of commonality in worldview – e.g., ‘Hitch’ being one of the ‘4 Horsemen’ of the modern atheist movement when he was still alive. For the life of me I cannot comprehend why Dawkins ever thought Hitchens was worth the time of day: Hitch’s schtick was just as pedestrian and unoriginal as his brother’s).
Along these same lines, shouldn't
Frisbee* disk golf scores be handicapped based on the poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? It's only fair, man.This would be a real boon for statisticians too. Shouldn't the graphical output of professional statisticians be normed based on how much time they spend indoors in unnatural lighting watching NFL to root for their fantasy guys, instead of getting outside in the sunshine and vitamin D?
.
* Ooops, don't sue me. I own NOTHING!Replies: @anon, @TWS, @Adam Smith
“poundage of weed smoked during the first 9 holes? ”
You must have quite the entourage.
☮
OT: Ted Wheeler had to pepper spray a member of Antifa who was following him. The guy he zapped was a lawyer and a spoiled crybaby rich guy. It’s beginning to look society needs to bring back dueling or at least would function better if we did. Duelling made life’s obnoxious people shut up and behave themselves.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/individual-pepper-sprayed-portland-mayor-identified-local-attorney-partner-legal-firm/
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
Hypno, Ryan Fitzpatrick has made a great career for himself in the NFL, now on his eighth team. Signs as back up, winds up starting, team acquires their franchise QB, Fitz rides the bench. Season ends, Fitzs moves on, Over and over and over. Probably has made more $ than any of his Harvard classmates with career earnings of $71 million. He also has seven children, each one born in a different state. Research by my wife.
https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/ryan-fitzpatrick-600x375.jpgReplies: @Buffalo Joe
An excerpt:
“... a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information [were] not rigging the election, they were fortifying it.”Replies: @Alden, @YetAnotherAnon, @Hypnotoad666
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
It’s everything we knew was happening. But now they are crowing about it openly:
(1) The media was running planted, coordinated, centrally planned propaganda;
(2) The tech oligarchs agreed to systematically censor pro-Trump and anti-Biden information while promoting the planted narrative;
(3) The BLM activists are actually centrally-controlled actors who will show up when and where they are told by the cabal (and will stand down when instructed as well);
(4) Zuckerberg and other billionaires laundered $300 million to bribe, err, “support” the vote counters in Democratic cities in swing states.
(5) The Chamber of Commerce, the cheap labor lobby, and Rinos like “Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger” were also on the team to “save the election” from a Trump win.
And anyone who still thinks election fraud wasn’t an additional insurance policy to “save our Democracy,” should seek mental health counseling.
He wouldn't get into Georgetown for undergrad today and wouldn't sniff Yale law school. He got something like a 90th percentile LSATReplies: @David In TN
Beginning with Adlai Stevenson liberals and media types declared some Democrat presidential candidates to be Great Intellectuals or of exceptional intelligence. JFK, Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton have been billed this way as candidates.
I recall during the Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky imbroglio, a liberal columnist (don’t recall the name) declared it was time to stop talking about Clinton’s supposed superhuman intelligence.
Years ago I read Barry Sanders had a low Wonderlic score. In interviews, Sanders to me always seemed reasonably bright and sensible. And he left football at the right time.
Hitch was a fat toad who’s talent was to make the News of the World crowd feel smart
I have a comment and a question. The comment is, I suspect that generally the Wonderlic is a pretty low-stakes event, compared to your 40 or the other things that get measured at the combine. So most of these guys probably aren’t putting a lot of effort into this test. I also suspect a lot of them either missed out on the time limit or just lost track of the clock. I doubt that Frank Gore is that dumb.
The question is, wasn’t there a lawsuit over the Wonderlic a few years ago? (It has the racially disparate impact you’d expect.) And wasn’t it replaced by a more “holistic” test?
Well, dang. I read it somewhere and will try to find my source. My sincere apologies. In the meantime, however, if black children speak later, surely they would be topping out autism diagnoses, and they are not. Most autistic black kids seem also to have brain trauma affecting motor skills; my intuition is that they are receiving autism diagnoses in order to pad black autism stats. This is my observation, anyway, as a mother who raised a late-speaking White Boy who taught himself to read by age three.
Of course we should. The fact that Sailer keeps steering us way from it is one reason I no longer take this site very seriously.
It was the fatal blow which was meant to destroy us and has now irremediably done so.
I understood that when it happened (I was 17) and have been filled with disgust ever since that so many of its intended victims did not.
Thanks!
Should Brady be expected to maintain his cognitive capacity over the past 20 years ?Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Anon
There must be: as long ago as 1946 the Nuremberg defendant’s IQs were adjusted upwards to account for age.
(I say this despite having points of commonality in worldview - e.g., 'Hitch' being one of the '4 Horsemen' of the modern atheist movement when he was still alive. For the life of me I cannot comprehend why Dawkins ever thought Hitchens was worth the time of day: Hitch's schtick was just as pedestrian and unoriginal as his brother's).Replies: @Old Palo Altan
There are Thirds and Thirds: those won by the sweat of one’s brow, and those picked up at the end of three years of unbroken sed-indulgence. I suspect that Hitchen’s was of the second sort.
Hollywood Henderson did say before Super Bowl XIII that Bradshaw couldn’t spell cat if given the C and T. We won’t discuss the game’s outcome. Greatest SB, by the way.
under on Scalise, Johnson and Waters; over on Jim Jordan.
Playing for the Detroit Lions organization is more enstupfying & soul sucking than playing the game of football imo
It was the fatal blow which was meant to destroy us and has now irremediably done so.
I understood that when it happened (I was 17) and have been filled with disgust ever since that so many of its intended victims did not.Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @anon
For the life of me, I do not understand how grown White Men watch and care about NFL Football. The young Black NFL Males are Black Males Matter supporters and hate White Male NFL Fans.
If you are watching NFL Football you are outsourcing your White Male manhood to young Black Males who play NFL Football…It’s the definition of cuckholdery. And it describes WFANS on air Sports Talk hosts….total absolute faggotry….I caught the rehabilitated Craig Carton a month ago discussing how he was impregnated by Jets Quarterback Sam Darnold(I don’t watch NFL Football…just a name to me).This is a common metaphor these days to indicate that they are fans of a particular NFL quarterback.
https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/qjKRxf1OGkXH-nit4WUGPjqfDAk=/1200x0/www.trbimg.com/img-5ba5031d/turbine/ny-sports-sam-darnold-jets-browns-streak-notes-20180921
I recall during the Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky imbroglio, a liberal columnist (don't recall the name) declared it was time to stop talking about Clinton's supposed superhuman intelligence.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Does the fact that Bill and Hill are separated by Al and Barry in your list mean it’s meant to be chronological, or are you insinuating something else?
Including Stevenson himself:
The Ivy League Intellectuals boosted Adlai Stevenson as a great intellect. It was claimed that Adlai Stevenson "wrote his own speeches," and Stevenson went along with it. Actually, Stevenson had a huge speechwriting staff.
Even if they were all of average intelligence, the idea that men of 22 years of age are going to have the wherewithal to be fiscally responsible with money that they will only earn for a very brief window of time in their lives (after which the overwhelming majority will be able to earn only a small fraction of what they earned while playing) is absurd. Deferring compensation with an annuity payment like benefit would be preferable to these guys blowing through millions of dollars on stuff that 20 something high testosterone men like (wine, women, cars, gold chains, etc), and then one day waking up in penury. There would still be enough present compensation to live well or be stupid, but it just makes sense for there to be a substantial benefit to carry them through the rest of adulthood.
Even when the 2o something NFL players were told they were "investing" their money, the investments usually took the form of some scheme calculated to separate them from their money.Replies: @Anonymous Jew, @Buffalo Joe
Alec, John Urschel, an OT, retired from the NFL after three seasons with Baltimore. John graduated from the local Jesuit prep and Penn State. He has a Master in Math (some advanced math) and is working on his doctorate. He is published in peer reviewed papers. He said he didn’t want to damage his brain. He lived on $25K per year and drove an older pick up. His mother use to greet him when he came off the field in college and say, “You don’t have to do this.” John’s dad is a surgeon. Rare bird.
Bradshaw is an extreme exception - he had a long career, got hit a lot, and at least one serious injury, but seems normal and healthy now.
You notice he is on TV all the time, the 100 retired, busted up QB’s who didn’t hold up so well, you don’t see them on camera much.Replies: @profnasty
Actually, exceptions PROVE the rule.
Hence ‘exception’. That is- exception to the rule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0Replies: @Travis
yes , people collecting thousands of dollars per month for a fake disability could claim they got better…but they still will stop collecting disability and lose their monthly disability checks…
Four years high school and one year Cal State Dropout: I played all the offensive line positions. Center, especially for punts, was the worst of it. Although I clearly remember two full contact drill sessions at practice where, in hindsight, I stumbled away from the field with concussion symptoms. But this was in the mid-1980s when the 'walk it off' prescription was in use. Though I was still able to function in an at times high-stress position in the USCG after my time on the gridiron. Football is a dumb sport; even dumber than basketball. Fathers, do not let your sons play football. It made me synthetically retarded.Replies: @Macumazahn
In sixth grade PE class our instructor had us playing flag football. No pads, no helmets, nothing. I was placed on the offensive line. The ball was snapped, and I heard a “thud”. I found myself on the ground, dazed. I asked my PE teacher, “What happened?” “You filled a hole,” he replied. “I’m done,” I told him, and I never played another down. I may have been young, but I wasn’t stupid.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/individual-pepper-sprayed-portland-mayor-identified-local-attorney-partner-legal-firm/Replies: @vhrm
afaict there’s no video of this. From that article you post, from the mayor’s own description it kind of sounds like he assaulted the guy:
If the guy had threatened him or took a swing at him or wouldn’t let him get in his car, or they were in a dark alley or something, ok. As is… this sounds like a fairly questionable use of force on the mayor’s part.
"In order to save democracy we had to destroy it"Replies: @Hypnotoad666
Hilariously, that whole Time article never once says the cabal was trying to get Biden elected or get Trump unelected, even though that’s the whole point. Instead of “getting Biden elected” they have to say they were trying to “secure the election” or “fortify the election.” Presumably, this is because working to elect a particular candidate could be construed as a laundered political contribution so they have to keep this silly verbal dance going.
It’s too bad Steve doesn’t do election stories, this one is really full of rich material.
https://babylonbee.com/news/casino-claims-they-didnt-rig-the-slot-machines-they-just-fortified-them
I once “dined” at a Burger King in Massachusetts that was staffed entirely with white retards. The manager seemed to run a tight ship, and my order was filled both quickly and accurately. The experience there was far better than I’ve ever had in a fast-food place staffed with negroes.
At the time of order, I playfully and deliberately gave him a hard time.
After I ate, in order to draw his and everyone else’s — including his shift supervisor —attention, I screamed at him:
“Hey! That was the best chicken sandwich I ever ate!”
He was so proud.
I wish his mom could’ve been there.
It’s meant to be chronological.
The Ivy League Intellectuals boosted Adlai Stevenson as a great intellect. It was claimed that Adlai Stevenson “wrote his own speeches,” and Stevenson went along with it. Actually, Stevenson had a huge speechwriting staff.
It was the fatal blow which was meant to destroy us and has now irremediably done so.
I understood that when it happened (I was 17) and have been filled with disgust ever since that so many of its intended victims did not.Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @anon
Of course we should. The fact that Sailer keeps steering us way from it is one reason I no longer take this site very seriously.
Gosh, that’s a shame. How much are you paying iSteve to write, again?
I understood that when it happened (I was 17) and have been filled with disgust ever since that so many of its intended victims did not.
Please share your plan to repeal the 1960’s legislation with us.
Thanks!
These journalists and their editor are innumerate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innumeracy_(book)
Should Brady be expected to maintain his cognitive capacity over the past 20 years ?Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Anon
In theory cognitive psychologists can distinguish between age-related cognitive decline and injury-related cognitive decline, and can even allocate it by percentage. Age-related cognitive decline affects abilities disproportionately, for instance hitting associatitve memory more than item memory. You’d still need a baseline, either a population average or a past test from the subject.
Oh what a tangled web!
Think of it this way…if a an average dog or an average chimpanzee’s IQ was normed against a human, any average human, they would be classified as severely mentally retarded/cognitively impaired.
Yet the dog and the chimpanzee would not exhibit even the slightest unusual or deficient behaviors that would make one think that they are cognitively impaired or that something is wrong with them. They would just be doing the average dog and chimpanzee things that they instinctively do.
A white American (with the white average IQ of 100) would be noticeably cognitively impaired, indeed something very wrong, with an IQ of 70 (two SDs below white avg)…but a black American (with the black average IQ of 85) would not be noticeably impaired with an IQ of 70 (1 SD below black avg) – they would outwardly appear to be “normal” in appearance and behavior, but they would be very dim with learning any cognitively demanding task or with using abstract reasoning.
He also has the most epic beard in the NFL. But Phillip Rivers has him beat with 9 kids.
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
“Ryan Fitzpatrick also scored a near perfect 48. He went to Harvard (which I hadn’t realized), so maybe that’s not too surprising.”
“As is the case for most incoming NFL rookies, Fitzpatrick took the Wonderlic test. Rumors have indicated that Fitzpatrick recorded a 50 on the test in nine minutes (Wonderlic std time is 12 minutes).
However, according to a The Wall Street Journal report that appeared in the September 30, 2005, edition, Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the exam, not a 50—still considered an exceptionally high score, but the claim that he completed the test in nine minutes is accurate.
Fitzpatrick has the highest Wonderlic Test score ever achieved among NFL quarterbacks.
The only player to earn a verified perfect score on the Wonderlic test was also a Harvard graduate: wide receiver/punter Pat McInally, who played his entire career with the Cincinnati Bengals.”
Here’s a list of the 10 highest scoring Wonderlic test takers in the NFL. Andrew Luck, now retired, is one of the 10, so apparently the list isn’t completely current. Be that as it may, 9 of the 10 highest scorers are quarterbacks. All of those quarterbacks are White.
https://www.collegeconsensus.com/features/smartest-nfl-players.
You forgot about “Hung Too Low”.
https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/ryan-fitzpatrick-600x375.jpgReplies: @Buffalo Joe
Hypno, and Rivers and Fitzpatrick probably know the names of their children, something a former NFL player, whose name I forgot, could not do. Stay safe.
“As is the case for most incoming NFL rookies, Fitzpatrick took the Wonderlic test. Rumors have indicated that Fitzpatrick recorded a 50 on the test in nine minutes (Wonderlic std time is 12 minutes).
However, according to a The Wall Street Journal report that appeared in the September 30, 2005, edition, Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the exam, not a 50—still considered an exceptionally high score, but the claim that he completed the test in nine minutes is accurate.
Fitzpatrick has the highest Wonderlic Test score ever achieved among NFL quarterbacks.
The only player to earn a verified perfect score on the Wonderlic test was also a Harvard graduate: wide receiver/punter Pat McInally, who played his entire career with the Cincinnati Bengals.”
https://youtu.be/-32d4BFnbQAReplies: @Buffalo Joe
dan, I don’t know where John Urschel ranked, having completed a Masters in advanced math at Penn State and being smart enough to leave the NFL after three years and with an intact brain. My favorite college player is Barret Jones an Offensive lineman who started four years at Alabama. Jones is the only player ever to be named All-American at guard, tackle and center. Two national Championships, multiple SEC Championships and winner of the Rimington trophy and the Outland Trophy, top center and top lineman. How do you find how he scored? Short NFL career as an undersized lineman.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pQtSdsR1-H8
As usual the problem is capitalism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LmeXEAZ-dMkReplies: @Truth
Those skits should have been funny, but weren’t. I think the problem is that Trekkies have a hard time playing normal humans.
1) Prohibit all Whites from participating in NFL, watching NFL or contributing to NFL financially.
2) Give the black players whatever they want, whenever they want.
3) Let black people decide how they wish to spend their own money.Replies: @Truth, @Curmudgeon
I can’t see any Constitutional issue there…
But here's the real shocker: Colin Kaepernik supposedly scored 38, which according to Steve's conversion, would be a Mensa level IQ of 134.
No one has ever accused Kap of being smart. So I have to wonder if his "leaked" score is for real, or maybe a PR thing to support his activism.
OTOH, the people who score well on IQ tests aren't always who you would expect.Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @Mike Tre, @Bob, @No Recent Commenting History, @Altai, @Buffalo Joe, @danand, @Truth
He received 40 million dollars for not doing his job for 3 years. How much did you make for doing yours during the same time period?
1) Prohibit all Whites from participating in NFL, watching NFL or contributing to NFL financially.
2) Give the black players whatever they want, whenever they want.
3) Let black people decide how they wish to spend their own money.Replies: @Truth, @Curmudgeon
That has been on the agenda for decades. If they had don it quickly, watching or contributing financially would have stopped long ago.
How many men do you know who are more than “very average” outside of their chosen profession?
-Classic Steve “The emperor has no clothes” Sailer
Couldn’t you fake being a moron or gay to avoid being drafted? In that case, Cassius Clay might not have been that dumb.
The most courteous and efficient, fast-food chicken sandwich order that was ever taken by my order-taker was taken by a young man who was obviously “special needs”.
At the time of order, I playfully and deliberately gave him a hard time.
After I ate, in order to draw his and everyone else’s — including his shift supervisor —attention, I screamed at him:
“Hey! That was the best chicken sandwich I ever ate!”
He was so proud.
I wish his mom could’ve been there.
Yep, White Males getting cucked by blacks who want to get impregnated by Sam Darnold!
https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/qjKRxf1OGkXH-nit4WUGPjqfDAk=/1200×0/www.trbimg.com/img-5ba5031d/turbine/ny-sports-sam-darnold-jets-browns-streak-notes-20180921