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Should Novak Djokovic (20 Major Championships) be Allowed to Try to Gain Ground on Federer (20), Nada (20)l, Nicklaus (18), and Tiger (15)? Even if He's Unvaccinated?
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Do you get the impression that all the riots in Australia will turn out to be a dud as Novak Djokovic (20 major championships), in his chance to pull ahead of Roger Federer (20), Rafael Nadal (20,), Jack Nicklaus (18) and Tiger Woods (15), fizzes out in the Australian Open quarterfinals?

Well, string theorist Ed Witten is sure which sides he’s on:

 
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  1. Adept says:

    Witten is a clever and insightful mathematician, but as a physicist he lacks a certain ontological sense — so that, generally, he works on self-referential and self-indulgent mathematical constructs. This is why everybody calls him “gifted,” he wins award after award, and yet his list of accomplishments in physics is startlingly meager.

    That aside, he’s a garden-variety leftist — the kind that goes with the flow and tries not to upset the apple cart. Whether this is genuine or for fear of being cancelled, who knows?

  2. Spud Boy says:

    Novak would probably already have 21 had he not been booted from the US Open for accidentally hitting a lines woman with a ball in 2020. That punishment was excessive IMHO.

    Novak is obsessive about taking care of his body. I’ve heard he uses a hyperbaric chamber among other things. I’m not surprised he has passed on the jabs.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  3. dearieme says:

    Hurray! No need to take sides between the nasty government in Oz and the nasty Serb.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
  4. He has already been allowed to play, a judge has trumped the Assie (sp) government’s ruling. A point to note is that Djokovic would probably already have his 21st slam if he didn’t accidentally hit that old hag in the face with a tennis ball at the US Open several years back.

    I don’t think that either Federer (age) or Nadal (bones) have another slam in them. Added to which Djokovic may still have a few.

    Thank you Novak for your stance! Every bit helps now that the insane Omicron double down is taking place. “They” have to die on this hill. The vax bell cannot be un-rung.

    Cheers-

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Rouetheday
  5. • Thanks: Old Prude
    • LOL: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @mc23
  6. Danindc says:

    It’s crazy all 3 have 20 Majors.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  7. Mike Tre says:

    I dunno Steve, should Jackie Robinson have been allowed to play in the MLB?

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  8. The ferocious tendency towards totalitarianism by vaccines fanatics is fascinating.

    Sure, part of it is our primordial fear of plagues and diseases coming to the surface, but it’s also as if all of the psychic energy normally devoted to keeping “others” out of our living space – for better or worse – is exploding out in vaccine-mania.

    In other words, now that the normal impulse to avoid “others” (different races, clans, people with weird customs or a tendency to mug us) is entirely verboten (“that’s racist!”), it’s bursting out in a socially acceptable context: Persecuting the un-vaccinated. It’s like when you damn up a river going in one direction, the water is going to collect or flow in a different direction.

  9. Nick Kypreos says he wouldn’t want to play Joker after this. He’s eccentric but very determined and immensely talented.

  10. I haven’t been paying much attention to COVID stats for awhile now (basically, my COVID-paying-attention-to is on Steve’s schedule; if he’s not posting about it, I’m not reading about it). But last I recall, there was pretty solid evidence that the various “vaccines” don’t do anything to limit spread (and, in fact, might promote spread by making for more asymptomatic carriers). Am I incorrect on that?

    I ask here because given the dogmatism on all sides of the whole vaxx issue I don’t trust that whatever I might DuckDuckGo will be reliable, so I defer to Steve’s analysis here (and that of various other resident quants).

    If I’m incorrect, and the vaxxs do greatly reduce the chances of transmission, then this global insistence on everybody getting vaxxed makes some sense.

    But if it’s correct that the vaxxs don’t do squat on limiting transmission, then I am really confused as to why every regime around the globe is insisting on them — particularly for kids.

    btw thanks to the commenters for responses to my previous query on stats on kids & Omicron.

    • Replies: @Alrenous
    , @HA
    , @Bill Jones
  11. I actually don’t know what’s going on.

    The Serbian forum I sometimes visit is divided over it. One half considers everything to be some kind of anti-Serbian conspiracy; others think that Đoković is a great athlete, but a pampered asshole who lied about his Covid status. It’s a complicated situation I’m not too interested in, with many nuances & disinfo.

    As I said: I don’t care. But, Đoković is definitely an anti-wax weirdo; also, he’s into paranormal rubbish like Bosnian pyramids paranormal energy infusion (he’s pals with a lunatic Semir Osmanagić).

    So Australia, Australia Open bureaucracy, democracy, sport politics …. are not central anymore; nor are Serbian projections on imaginary rich world conspiracy against Serbs. Now, the real issues are Covid & anti-waxxers.

  12. SeeIt seems like Djokovic submitted evidence that he tested positive for Covid-19 on December 16th, and yet the closing date for applying for visas for the Australian tennis open was December 10th.

    This strongly suggests that his first application was declined because he was not vaccinated, and that he subsequently presented evidence of testing positive for covid-19 on December 16th.

    However the Daily Mail showed pictures of him appearing in public unmasked, and hugging children on the 16th and 17th of December, apparently after he had tested positive, though of course we cannot know the exact date and time when he was given the results of the test and entered quarantine.

    As far as many Australians are concerned, the issue is that everybody should be treated equally regardless of whether they are wealthy and famous. Many people have had to go months staying out of their own country, or not seeing their families, because of quarantine regulations.

    The England cricket team have been playing in Australia for the last several weeks, and have to remain in a quarantine bubble and all that stuff, but they seem to have managed it without any controversy regarding vaccinations.

    The rules for entering Australia seem to be fairly clear, that you need to be double vaccinated with is a vaccine that has been approved in Australia. So Sputnik V is not good enough.

    But what are the current rules for entering the United States?

  13. The “vaccines” don’t prevent the spread of COVID, so of course he should.

  14. EdwardM says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Let’s see if he puts his money where his mouth is and forfeits if he draws him.

  15. @Jonathan Mason

    However the Daily Mail showed pictures of him appearing in public unmasked, and hugging children on the 16th and 17th of December, apparently after he had tested positive

    This part is true.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  16. He’s already had COVID-19 so a vaccination isn’t going to make much difference — and isn’t that exactly why he got a medical exemption from the vaccination requirement for the visa?

    His visa was reinstated a few hours ago by a judge but the PM is threatening to cancel it again. What a great day for rule of law.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  17. BB753 says:

    Morrison, the Australian Prime Minister, is a monster who’s sequestered half of the population of Australia for no reason during the strict COVID lockdowns. Good to see Djokovic challenge the covidian tyrant.

    • Replies: @sb
  18. BB753 says:

    Morrison, the Australian Prime Minister, is a monster who’s sequestered half of the population of Australia for no good reason during the strict COVID lockdowns. Good to see Djokovic challenge the covidian tyrant.

  19. Dumbo says:

    Since the vaccine doesn’t stop spread, and Omicron appears to be pretty mild anyway, it’s just a stupid political theatre. Austfailian politicians don’t want to appear like the clowns they are.

    Also, what does tennis has to do with golf, or iSteve just couldn’t resist bringing it in?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  20. Gabe Ruth says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Obviously that depends on whether or not you are a kulak.

  21. JimDandy says:

    I just saw on the news that it’s not a mass psychosis after all. That’s a relief.

  22. clyde says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Wrong! Australia looks pathetic and Covid deranged by trying to keep Novak out. Plenty of American actors waltzed into Oz last year to make movies, while California was shut down. Fact is that the female hysterics, the feminized male hysterics and millions of Oz hypochondriacs are making Oz a penal colony again. Making Oz a worldwide laughingstock.

    The ultra-vaxxers of Oz have a repressed inner self hatred via their vaxxx doubts. (was I suckered into getting vaxxxed?) So they lash out at Novak. They lay their inner shit on Novak. Misery wants company.

    btw _ __Federale Health Honcho Rachelle Walaensky admitted yesterday that>>>>>

    Sometimes it takes a while, but the truth eventually comes out. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky just admitted that 75 percent of those who have died of COVID-19 had four or more comorbidities that may have actually served as the primary cause of death.

  23. @The Anti-Gnostic

    The vaccines do prevent the spread of COVID, though.

  24. Tennis is too high-class for people to riot over.

  25. Altai says:

    The rioters specifically in support of him seem to be mostly part of the Greek/Balkan diaspora. Gold chain men see each other. I don’t think such celebrations of innate low trustness, low agreeableness and free riding should be supported but then it’s become a politically issue and I’d guess post commentators would be in support of Djokovic. He should know better. If he doesn’t want to be vaccinated fine but don’t go flying halfway across the world.

    That’s the macro conflict here. Djokovic’s defense, that he had contracted covid in December after going to a Euroleague game despite not being vaccinated won’t help in that context. It’ll just be another example of him engaging in high risk actions while everyone else sacrifices.

    That he’d previously been infected in July after getting egg on his face over his Adira Tournament in Belgrade he’d set up which led to mass covid outbreaks forcing him to apologise is not going to help either. Everyone could have predicted how it would go and they did but he still put it on.

    https://theadriatour.com/en/novak-djokovic-statement/

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/24/novak-djokovic-left-isolated-as-adria-tennis-tour-acrimony-rumbles-on

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  26. Should Novak Djokovic (20 Major Championships) be Allowed to Try to Gain Ground on Federer (20), Nada (20)l, Nicklaus (18), and Tiger (15)? Even if He’s Unvaccinated?

    Nada (20)l is a fun typo, with Nadal’s major championships record becoming part of his name.

    And I see that he’s Nada on Steve’s twitter.

  27. Edward Witten is The Smartest Guy In the Room. But he doesn’t have the scientific credentials of Dr Anthony Fauci, so his opinions don’t matter.

    That was my attempt at sarcasm. Sorry, I am not very witty.

  28. Who cares?

    Tennis is for playing a nice game with your wife and another couple at the country club … since you damn sure don’t want to take her out on the golf course.

  29. Barnard says:

    It would be surprising if Djokovic lost in the quarterfinals, although I am sure the delay in training is not good for him. The men’s draw isn’t that deep, which is why Djokovic, Federer and Nadal have been able to rack up 20 grand slam wins a piece. It would be fun to see him draw Nadal in the quarters and beat him easily, considering Nadal’s self serving comments about the situation. Given their risk of getting a severe case of Covid is statistically zero, requiring any of these players to take the vaccine is stupid.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  30. Barnard says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I assume you are taking about hot headed player Nick Kyrgios. It was announced today that even though he has fulfilled all vaccine requirements, he tested positive of Covid. As you would expect with a pro athlete, he is not sick. To his credit, he was already on record wanting Djokovic to be allowed to play.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  31. JimB says:

    Even the greatest minds have an expiration date.

  32. The reaction of the Australian public to the Novak nonsense may not make much sense to people unfamiliar with modern Australians but a perception based on Crocodile Dundee.

    Australians have a very high tolerance for imposed rules regardless of how little sense these might make. In fact, there seems to be a sunk cost fallacy driven resentment of those who don’t comply.

    The disgust by the Australian public may be explained more by self loathing in response to seeing an outsider fight the arbitrary and unscientific laws they were too afraid to oppose.

    If they question why vaccines need to be mandatory in the face of a variant that can spread so easily regardless of vaccine status, they might also need to question many other uncomfortable truths about their behaviours in the last two years.

    Australians have learned which side of the barbed wire they would have been in history and it’s not a comfortable realisation to learn they aren’t the larrikin rule breakers their national self image would have them believe.

    • Agree: dimples
    • Replies: @animalogic
  33. Sean says:

    He is no stranger to injections I can assure you.

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mike Tre
    , @vinteuil
  34. roonaldo says:

    So he’s gaining ground on Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods? Guess I’ll have to tee off with a tennis racquet to learn his secret.

    Screw the Poison Shot propagandists. Hats off to the athletes openly refusing the jabs and three jeers to the athletes, politicians, etc., who lie about taking it or who bought a saline shot.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  35. The data and the science prove that nobody is vaccinated:

    90% of Americans age 50 and up got double or triple-tapped by Trump’s little prick.

    The prick is 95% potent.

    90% X 95% X 300,000 = 256,000: This is the expected number of lives saved by the Prick among people over age 50**.

    300,000 – 256,000 = 44,000: This is the projected number of dead for 2021 post-vaccine [sic] in relation to the 300,000 dead pre-vaccine [sic].

    Actual 2021 body count: 550,000.

    Harm caused by the deadly vax: 550,000 ÷ 44,000 = 12.5 or, expressed in percent, 1250%. Or, expressed another way, the deadly prick is -1250% effective.

    Expressed another way, every immune system on Earth is far more effective than the Prick. The “covid” vaccines are a disaster.

    ** The number dead of “covid” under 50 is minimal and thus irrelevant to the analysis

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  36. Muggles says:

    Australia is proof that behind every politically influential Brit or Brit colonist (AUS, NZ) there lies the beating heart of Winston Smith’s 1984.

    Silly unproven anti COVID theater designed to cow ordinary citizens by claiming to “protect” them from unseen harm.

    As time progresses the utility of pseudo vaxes, lockdowns, masks, social distancing, etc. has diminished as more evidence accumulates.

    Sure, do what you want in that regard. That is your human right. But don’t force everyone to obey for the sake of pretending to do something. Like killing black cats during the Middle Ages plagues.

    There is a nasty authoritarian streak in our Anglo Saxon fore-bearers (some of us) which we were well rid of thanks to G. Washington & Co. A nation with no written constitution and lick-spittle judges has no system of protecting individual rights.

    Shame on Australia. And New Zealand. Where you can find boots smashing into your face every day.

    • Replies: @Emblematic
  37. I haven’t been following all the ins and outs but it’s pretty clear Djokovic attempted to enter Australia improperly. And it looks like he’ll get away with it. Is anyone really upset though? People understand why an exception could be made in his case. My impression is that our prime minister, Mr Morrison, panicked at the negative press coverage and decided to stick his nose in, creating a problem out of nothing.

  38. @Muggles

    You might be right, but the Bill of Rights won’t save you once the demographics tip. If judges can find gay marriage and transsexuals in the Constitution they can find anything.

  39. I think it’s much more difficult to win a major in golf

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Joe Joe
  40. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    This strongly suggests that his first application was declined because he was not vaccinated, and that he subsequently presented evidence of testing positive for covid-19 on December 16th.

    However the Daily Mail showed pictures of him appearing in public unmasked, and hugging children on the 16th and 17th of December, apparently after he had tested positive, though of course we cannot know the exact date and time when he was given the results of the test and entered quarantine.

    It’s likely he got an antibody test showing he already had Covid in the past but not necessarily Covid-positive at that time.

    • Agree: Bernard
  41. Alrenous says: • Website
    @Matthew Kelly

    They’re talking up vaccine transmission-blocking because it’s exactly the opposite of true – most vaccines improve viral transmission.
    Russia and China likely have a full-placebo vaccine on offer, which is superior because there’s few to no side-effects. It’s been well-known for years that we have no effective vaccine strategies for coronaviruses. Checksum: coronas have been endemic ever since they’ve been discovered, and you’ve never been offered a corona vaccine before. Did they hate money before two years ago? See also: rhinovirus.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @Rob
  42. @Alexander Turok

    No they don’t. You can still get COVID and transmit COVID, even after your eleventy-first booster. That’s why the virus marches on and “fully vaccinated” Bryan Adams, Whoopi Goldberg and, most recently, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez all have symptomatic COVID. Everybody is effectively unvaccinated after several months. Then they’ll get a “booster” with each successive one offering diminishing returns as the vaccine chases and pushes the virus from behind, like the flu “vaccines.”

    • Agree: Travis, clyde
    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    , @Rob
  43. @Peter Lund

    It’s a pity he isn’t the world’s greatest soccer player instead of the world’s greatest tennis player. This baloney will surely wake up a few people but soccer fans number in the 100s millions at minimum.

  44. @Jonathan Mason

    Stop saying ‘tested positive for COVID19’. It’s a bullshit piece of misdirection.

    COVID19 is a relatively rare consequence of being infected with SARS-nCoV-2 – a β-coronavirus.

    SARS-nCoV-2 is a relatively-mild pathogen (IFR in the ballpark for seasonal influenza); COVID19 is a disease syndrome that may be brought on by infection with SARS-nCoV-2, particularly for people whose metabolism is dysfunctional (the morbidly obese; those with lifestyle-induced inflammatory diseases).

    The various tests – RT-qPCR and RAT – detect the presence of fragments of SARS-nCoV-2.

    Djokovic returned a positive test for SARS-nCoV-2 in December.

    Like the vast majority of metabolically-prudent people infected with SARS-nCov-2, he had no symptoms whatsoever – if he hadn’t been tested, he wouldn’t have known he had it.

    He didn’t have ‘COVID19’ in December – and his risk of developing COVID19 given infection with SARS-nCoV-2 was low (less than 10% given his metabolic profile) and his risk of hospitalisation and death was so close to zero as to be not worth considering.

    Language is one of the things that (supposedly) separates mankind from the lower animals.

    Using language irresponsibly – conflating SARS-nCoV-2 and COVID (like a fucking jernalist) puts anyone who does it in the same shit-encrusted bucket as Sarah Jeong.

    • Agree: BB753, acementhead
    • Thanks: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Mike1
  45. @Bardon Kaldian

    It’s also completely irrelevant.

    Hugging people who virtually never get a disease (when you don’t have that disease), is a non-issue in any sane society.

    COVID19 is not an inevitable consequence of a positive RT-qPCR test for SARS-nCoV-2.

    It used to require symptoms to be considered diseased, and then gullible fuckwits got led by the nose.

    • Agree: Marcion, Travis
  46. @The Anti-Gnostic

    diminishing returns

    Still worth getting.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  47. @Meretricious

    The outcomes of golf tournaments are more random because

    A) the sample size of times the player hits the ball in a tournament is smaller

    B) the golfer plays against the course while the tennis players play each other.

    So, it’s not uncommon for an all time great to simply be clearly better than his opponents for a couple of years at a time. On the other hand, no 50 year old tennis great is going to win a major championship the way Phil Mickelson did recently, so their career totals are pretty similar.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @roonaldo
    , @Sean
  48. pyrrhus says:
    @Adept

    Witten started out as a humanities loving garden variety leftist…Then he stumbled into math..

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  49. @Barnard

    Nick Kypreos says he wouldn’t want to play Joker after this.

    I assume you are taking about hot headed player Nick Kyrgios.

    It would be difficult to play tennis with a hockey stick. Those work better on graphs.

  50. @Steve Sailer

    B) the golfer plays against the course while the tennis players play each other.

    Golf with goalies would be impossibly difficult. Defenseman, though, could make it more interesting.

  51. Anonymous[501] • Disclaimer says:

    Djokovic has long been disliked by tennis fans before any of this vaccine stuff. In fact, he may be one of the most disliked great players of all time:

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/novak-djokovic-tiger-woods-tom-brady-michael-jordan-french-open-tennis-goat-debate

    Which got me thinking about history, and whether any other infamous G.O.A.T. comes anywhere near the levels of…well, at best, ambivalence…with which most of us greet the Djoker. Let’s run down the list.

    Soccer: Pele, Maradona, Messi…all pretty much beloved.

    Baseball: Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron…all pretty much beloved.

    Hockey: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr…all pretty much beloved.

    Basketball: Michael Jordan, LeBron James…all pretty much beloved.

    Football: Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Walter Payton…well, Brady is not beloved, but people mostly hate his team rather than the man himself. The rest? Beloved.

    Golf: Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus…all pretty much beloved, and that’s really saying something for Tiger.

    Tennis, before Djoker: Federer, Nadal, Agassi, Sampras…all pretty much beloved.

    RELATED: Past Masters champ shares golf story that perfectly illustrates why Tom Brady is the GOAT

    Now, there’s one big caveat here, which is that in baseball, Barry Bonds and Ty Cobb are awfully close to the G.O.A.T. discussion, if not in the thick of it, and both of them were widely reviled human beings (and for good reason). In hockey, Maurice Richard was a complicated figure who is at least adjacent to the best-ever rankings, and you could maybe make an argument that Cristiano Ronald in soccer rubs people the wrong way and is at least top 15 in the sport’s history. So even though I believe humans have a bias toward appreciating greatness and forgiving minor or even major flaws in great athletes (see: Tiger), it’s not like there are zero despised athletes among the upper-upper echelons.

    Still, for those few who are legitimately in the GOAT ranks, I’m not seeing any who inspire quite the level of general antipathy Djokovic does. If you’re not one of his hardcore fans, your general stance on him is likely at least mildly negative, and potentially worse. In that, he stands alone, because the hatred directed at the others is primarily based on hating a team, and that hatred tends to fade away with time. With Djokovic, you can’t really tell his story—his full story—without acknowledging that for the average fan, the guy never inspired the kind of love that most people in his position would have earned a long time ago.

  52. pyrrhus says:
    @dearieme

    Even if Djokovic were nasty, he would be immensely preferable to the criminal Oz Government…

  53. Travis says:

    every argument for the Covid vax mandates has proven to be false. They don’t provide immunity. They don’t prevent hospitalization. And now it has been demonstrated that the vaccines actually increase your risk of contracting the new variants. Omicron: the variant that teaches “the vaccinated” that their three-dose vaccine doesn’t work. Even a little bit.

    • Replies: @Undisclosed
  54. Witten is just channeling his inner-Nazi … or should I say Vaxxi?

    Vaccination Über Alles !

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  55. @Jonathan Mason

    “what are the current rules for entering the United States?”

    Older Englishmen who have spent the past five years in an economically depressed tropical country with a high birthrate and orphans wandering the streets will be flagged.

    • LOL: clyde
  56. Djokovich is my third/favorite Serb, after Gavrilo Princip and Slobodan Milosevic.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  57. HA says:
    @Matthew Kelly

    “the various “vaccines” don’t do anything to limit spread (and, in fact, might promote spread by making for more asymptomatic carriers). Am I incorrect on that?”

    Yes, you are incorrect. You are confusing “significantly reduces” with “doesn’t work at all”. Up till now, the vaccinated have been about 600% less likely to transmit the disease than the unvaxxed, though part of that is likely because the vaxxed also tend to be more careful about other precautions. Even though the maximum viral load was indeed similar for both vaxxed and unvaxxed (see the link below) the vaxxed transmit that load for a shorter period of time (and more importantly are less likely to wind up in hospitals, which have enormous transmission potential depending on the conditions there).

    …vaccinated people clear the virus faster, with lower levels of virus overall, and have less time with very high levels of virus present.

    Therefore, vaccinated people are, on average, likely to be less contagious.

    That 600% decrease in transmission is likely going to be weaker for omicron, which is better at breaking through the virus, but even that means it’s only a 300% reduction, that’s still a lot better than, say, ivermectin, which from what I can tell does little more than reduce the average sick time from 6 days to 4 (i.e. a 33% decrease). And the same people who are now telling you that 600% reductions don’t work were gung-ho about that 33% decrease in the case of ivermectin.

    And let’s not forget the 1000% reduction in dying (not to mention clogging the hospitals and ER’s).

    Seat belts don’t magically stop you from having car wrecks, or getting injured in one. They just significantly increase the likelihood of surviving. Same goes here. Most vaccines — even ones that have been administered for years with little in the way of controversy — have plenty in the way of breakthroughs, particularly the flu vaccine. But even if you do get a breakthrough infection, your odds of surviving the disease are still significantly better if you’re vaxxed.

    • Thanks: Matthew Kelly
  58. Mike Tre says:
    @Sean

    That’s not the physique of a man who uses steroids.

  59. @Alexander Turok

    “Still worth getting.”

    How many boosters can your body safely absorb in one year? What’s your lucky number?

    • Replies: @HA
  60. Alrenous says: • Website
    @Patrick in SC

    Americans lost any moral authority against totalitarianism when Lincoln was lionized.

  61. HA says:
    @Alrenous

    “Checksum: coronas have been endemic ever since they’ve been discovered, and you’ve never been offered a corona vaccine before.”

    No one ever considered it worth the effort. Coronaviruses are part of the grab bag of diseases that cause the common cold, but the common cold doesn’t manage to kill 800K over two years. SARS-1 died out on its own before a virus could be developed and that completely dried up funding for research, but the people who worked on that laid the groundwork for the vaccine this time around.

    And whether or not you’ve been offered a corona vaccine before depends on whether or not you own cows — there has been a bovine coronavirus vaccine on the market for decades now.

    • Replies: @Alrenous
  62. @Dumbo

    Also, what does tennis has to do with golf, or iSteve just couldn’t resist bringing it in?

    Steve is a marketeer. He knows some of his readers (including yours truly) prefer sports like tennis to putt-putt games like golf, and so he brings them in.

    Djokovic will go on to set the record, no matter what happens in Australia. He has years of strong play ahead of him. This is a tempest in a teapot.

    BTW, Novak is right. Australia looks pretty ridiculous right now — definitely not in historical character.

  63. @Anonymous

    Baseball players who were the greatest of their time but who weren’t well-liked nationally: Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds. Lefty Grove was the greatest pitcher between the wars, but didn’t inspire fans the way Christy Mathewson and Walter Johnson had.

    Mike Trout is ignored but not much disliked.

  64. HA says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    “How many boosters can your body safely absorb in one year?’

    Evidently, more than two, if Israel is any indication. And other countries, like Sweden are lining up to provide us with even more data on that regard. Say, whatever happened to all the “let’s be more like Sweden” bros? Not hearing too much of that, these days. I wonder why?

    Finally, all those guys getting paid to take eight shots for their friends and whatnot don’t seem to be keeling over either.

  65. @Adept

    His frizzy hair’d daughter – Daniela Witten – is responsible for removing RA Fisher’s name (a man of infinitely greater talent and accomplishment than the entire Witten family is capable of, nevermind Ed’s derpy daughter) from some endowment or award or whatever at her school. Great work guys!

    • Replies: @Roger
    , @res
  66. NOTA says:
    @Hangnail Hans

    Say, could there be a downside to having our nine philosopher-kings all be innumerate and technologically illiterate?

  67. Basically, Australia didn’t have much Covid-19, until it did, regardless of the measures they’ve taken. Novak Djokovic or anybody else coming into the country won’t make much difference now.

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
    • Replies: @Travis
  68. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:

    Ummm…

    • Replies: @Anon
  69. @HA

    Four shots a year and still doesn’t provide sterilizing immunity.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @Alexander Turok
  70. clyde says:
    @HA

    As usual, talking through your hat when it comes to Covid and its flavor of the month. I can see you here in three years, talking about your 10th Covid jab. When all you or anyone had to do was get their D3 in their blood tested. Then take 10000 units daily until you get to 90 ng/ml. (along w K2 and mag. glycinate)

    The ultra-vaxxxxer madness can be seen by all, now that they and Big Pharma (\$\$\$\$) are pimping for vaxxxing five year olds. You gotta laugh, it’s so mad and stupid.

    • Agree: Travis, Mark G., Old Prude
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    , @HA
  71. roonaldo says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Golfers do indeed play against each other (and not only in match play), as they battle shot for shot down to the wire. When you are tied for the lead and your opponent drills his approach shot to three feet from the pin on the final hole, it is pure mano a mano.

    And tennis players play against the court, as they adapt strategy and shot-making to the qualities and imperfections of clay or grass or hard-surfaced courts.

    They’re two different sports, and not directly comparable. I think you could be a great sports handicapper, but would make for a real joy-killer as a coach! 🤖🎾⛳

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  72. HA says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    “Four shots a year and still doesn’t provide sterilizing immunity.”

    Moving the goalposts, I see. The original question was how many boosters can the body withstand. Aside from the bedwetting daffodils who grab the smelling salts whenever even the notion of one shot comes up, elderly Israelis and Swedes have managed to hobble into vaxx clinics with canes and walkers and lived to tell the tale even after three or four rounds. What a fragile little bunch of hysterics these anti-vaxx flowers turned out to be!

    And no, as I already noted earlier, plenty of things don’t provide sterilizing immunity but still go long way towards keeping you alive and in good shape. Locking your door and shutting your windows doesn’t give you sterilizing immunity against break-ins. Fire extinguishers don’t provide sterilizing immunity against fire damage. You’re still better off surviving with your body and your goods intact if you take those precautions, though in those cases, if you’re dumb enough not to, you at least won’t hog up emergency rooms and hospitals for those who needed them for something less preventable. That excuse doesn’t hold for the soiled-my-underoos-because-of-a-vaccine crowd.

  73. Anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre

    You would be surprised.

  74. @Adam Smith

    Do you have an arguent rooted in actual data or is it just “I feel culturally closer to some anti-vax sportsball commentator than to those scientists?”

  75. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Have you stopped washing your hands, brushing your teeth, wearing your seatbelt, and doing all manner of things that don’t stop 100% of the problem? #RickAndMortyTierIQ

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  76. @roonaldo

    Say there was golf game in which golfers started in the middle of a huge field with goal lines at the opposite ends 1000 yards apart with one golf ball for the two of them. The first player drives in one direction then the second player goes to his ball and drives it back in the opposite direction until one of them knocks the ball over the goal line the other player is defending. That would be more like tennis, in which one player’s good shot disadvantages the other player.

    Similarly, in boxing, champs often have records like 30-1-1 because they don’t get hurt as much as their opponents get hurt by them.

    In golf, players like Woods, Nicklaus, and Hogan appeared to be able to psychologically disadvantage their opponents, but it’s all murkier than blasting a serve past your rival in tennis.

    • Replies: @roonaldo
  77. Alrenous says: • Website
    @HA

    sars-2 also hasn’t killed 800k people

    America is a third world country game show: all the stats are made up because the numbers don’t matter.

    In this particular case it’s been thoroughly documented that bullets to the head and motorcycle crashes are counted as ncov deaths, because hospitals get fabulous cash prizes for each infection and each death. It is entirely possible that all excess mortality in the last two years is due solely to lockdowns and similar iatrogenic policies. (Except tweens and teens, who died noticeably less often due to lower school exposure.) Of course, all the stats are made up, so it’s nearly impossible to tell, except that we know they’re paying hospitals to invent new bodies, not hide them. Have to go around asking individuals, in person, which funerals they went to and what they died of. Nobody I know online has reported a single death they personally witnessed, so have fun with that.

    If there was real morbidity, they would have stuck with “it’s just the flu bro” to get as many folk killed as possible. If there was a real plague, they wouldn’t have to invent bodies. If there was a real threat, the hysteria would be unnecessary. If the vaccine worked, the vaccinated wouldn’t have to be afraid.

    In Reality, the unvaccinated don’t need to be afraid. Vit D >>> all pharma.

    Bonus round: it’s super easy to fake a positive test. Just run PCR a little longer than you’re supposed to. Result: fabulous cash prizes.

    • Replies: @HA
  78. @clyde

    The ultra-vaxxers of Oz have a repressed inner self hatred via their vaxxx doubts. (was I suckered into getting vaxxxed?) So they lash out at Novak. They lay their inner shit on Novak. Misery wants company.

    Is this hypothesis falsifiable? It seems to me that the booster should provide a test case, if people really do regret getting the vaccine, they won’t get the booster. Reminds me of the old belief among gays that all those straight guys were secretly gay and jealous of them and any day now were gonna divorce their wives and move to San Francisco.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    , @clyde
  79. @Bardon Kaldian

    Don’t you think that both factions can be right, that everything is indeed an anti-Serb conspiracy and Mr. Djokovic is certainly a pampered bodily orifice?

    I’ve got it.

    Novak is the South-Slavic Aaron Rogers!

  80. @Patrick in SC

    Yup.

    And this time it’s being done by Mommyism.

    Let’s hope the Matriarchy is gentle because it sure as hell won’t be sane.

  81. @HA

    Bloody hell, mate, we get it. Give it a rest. Some of us are here to read about the Greatest Serb Ever.

    Which reminds me: how many “Australian Serbs” would have fought on the Aussie side if President Vucic made good on his threat to invade if Djokovic was denied entry?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  82. @anon

    The top article on that site is better than the onion. It’s about the M-F vs F-M college tranny swimmer duel.

    https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

  83. When we were kids, my brother and I used to stand about 50 metres apart* and hit a golf ball at each other. The winner was the first one to score a hit.

    One time, my brother skied a ball and I lost sight of it. It hit me fair on the forehead as I was looking up and it knocked me to the ground; the equivalent of a hole in one. Never repeated.

    Personally, I’d like to see pros take a crack at this version. We were wildly inaccurate, but I’ve seen a video of pros skeet shooting with golf balls and hitting the darn things! Two pros aiming for each other should see more direct hits than we could muster.

    *Distance may have increased over the years…

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @Old Prude
  84. J.Ross says:

    The riots are about tennis.
    When we’re in the camps Steve will be the guy complaining about the color of the sheds.

    • Replies: @Undisclosed
  85. @Travis

    Yes but there is by now an “Us vs Them” that we – on the correct side – don’t want to let go of.

    We could resign and let Fauci announce that the data have changed so we no longer need restrictions of sorts A and B and C but by now a lot of us want victory and want to see our enemies smashed.

    With that attitude why would they surrender?

    They hold the whip hand. If we accept their authority they have the room to “see the light” and start being a bit nicer to their subjects but if we demand a revolution, well, they can’t concede that they were wrong now can they?

    We humans care a lot about who/whom stuff.

    I mean, can Steve tell Omar that he was right all along without accepting Omar’s “boomerfag” insults?

    We – who were right – have them cornered.

    In cases like Steve’s I’m 100% for charity. WRT to the Faucists I want them to lick the soles of my shoes. But the price of that preference is their digging in and using their whips liberally.

    Such is the story of Man.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  86. @clyde

    You are right. Australia is almost totally feminized.

  87. Roger says:
    @puttheforkdown

    Can we find a reason to cancel Witten?

  88. @clyde

    all you or anyone had to do was get their D3 in their blood tested. Then take 10000 units daily until you get to 90 ng/ml. (along w K2 and mag. glycinate)

    Mg [bis-]Glycinate is awful stuff. I’ve yet to find a beverage that will mask the taste, and although it doesn’t make one as ‘sharty’ as, say, Mg carbonate (or -chloride, or -oxide), Mg Glycinate still makes me slightly less likely to let rip a fart, for fear of shitting my pants.

    Better to stump up a little more and get Mg L-threonate: dissolves in fluids more easily; has slight positive effects on mental state; and has no after-taste. At ‘normal’ doses (0.4mg), the improvements in mental state do not offset the relaxant properties (I take MgThreo before bed).

    • Replies: @clyde
    , @Mike Tre
  89. @The Alarmist

    Vaccination Über Alles !

    If you want to tweak the right noses, the better phrase is

    Impfung Macht Frei

    • Thanks: Old Prude
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  90. res says:
    @puttheforkdown

    Thanks. Some more on that at
    Award “retired” over R. A. Fisher’s links to eugenics
    https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1740-9713.01411

  91. Travis says:
    @Patrick in SC

    vaccine mandates became a political weapon to punish dissidents. Just another tool of the elites to cancel and Blacklist Americans who refuse to submit. The mandates were never about the health or well being of Americans. The lock-downs, mask mandates and vaccine mandates are methods used by those in power to demonstrate their power and destroy their enemies. Leftists used their media and political power to mandate vaccines to separate the obedient from the disobedient, to get people used to giving up their bodily autonomy, and as a trial run for using “emergencies” as a way to jettison the Constitution and achieve complete totalitarian control over the American people.

    • Agree: acementhead
  92. Of the major sports which ones are PEDs least likely to play a role in conspicuous success?

  93. @Alexander Turok

    It seems to me that the booster should provide a test case, if people really do regret getting the vaccine, they won’t get the booster

    That would depend critically on whether or not being ‘unboosted’ would cost you your livelihood: in parts of Australia only certified mudbloods (i.e., those who satisfy whatever definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ is in force) are eligible for employment in some sectors – including the bureaucracy.

    The number of people willingly getting boosted is a different question: obese women and the people they can browbeat, and the metabolically ignorant or imprudent. (Women being stupider than men, we should always expect them to be vulnerable to propaganda: fat women triply so, since they require easy answers).

    I know… fat women and the metabolically ignorant are sets with significant overlap.

    The poor bastards who were stupid enough to get trapped by squirting a hot load into a future Fat Karen deserve no sympathy either: the inner Fat Karen is obvious, even in teenagers.

    • Replies: @clyde
    , @Old Prude
  94. @Timur The Lame

    Even if Novak doesn’t manage to surpass Federer and Nadal in Grand Slam wins he has a winning record against both of them in head-to-head match-ups, he has more wins in Masters 1000 events, and he has spent the most weeks as world number one. He’s also the only one of the three to have won each Grand Slam tourney at least twice each. Any fair-minded person would acknowledge he’s the undisputed GOAT. Oh, and he’s never had fuckin’ Anna Wintour in his spectator box.

  95. @Alexander Turok

    Greetings, Mr. Turok,

    I don’t watch sportsball…

    Worldwide Bayesian Causal Impact Analysis of Vaccine Administration on Deaths and Cases Associated with COVID-19: A BigData Analysis of 145 Countries

    “The results of this study taken together demonstrate a product that directly causes more COVID-19 associated cases and deaths than otherwise would have existed with zero vaccines.”

    • Replies: @HA
  96. Mike Tre says:
    @Mike Tre

    No, I wouldn’t. I am confident I know much more about the subject than just about anyone here.

    • Replies: @Sean
  97. HA says:
    @clyde

    “all you or anyone had to do was get their D3 in their blood tested…”

    Maybe. I got no problem with people getting adequate amounts of vitamin D, and there was some stuff in Aug 2020 that seemed encouraging. But sadly, not much since, and if your claim true, it’ll take more than your suspiciously Dunning-Kruger-levels of confidence to make it so. This is from a later Jan 2021 paper:

    Some of the evidence about vitamin D and COVID-19 doesn’t pass the smell test…an Indonesian retrospective study linking low vitamin D levels to a higher risk of dying from COVID-19. Although the publication had not been peer-reviewed, “it has taken the internet by storm,”…The problem, they said, was that they couldn’t track down the authors of the study, which didn’t mention the names or number of hospitals involved…

    In mid-October, the editors of PLoS One issued an “expression of concern” about a vitamin D study they had published 3 weeks earlier,…The editors also questioned the authors’ declaration of no competing interests….author Michael Holick, MD, PhD,…does have competing interests, including consulting work, industry funding, and authorship of books (such as 2011’s The Vitamin D Solution), the editors wrote.

    JoAnn Manson, MD, chief of preventive medicine at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital, …coauthored a “call to action” to eliminate vitamin D deficiency during the pandemic. Two of the 11 sources it cited were the questionable preprint from Indonesia and a BMJ “Rapid Response” that also cited the preprint. Tishcon Corporation, a vitamin supplement manufacturer, and Quest Diagnostics, which markets a \$69 vitamin D test directly to consumers, are among the sponsors and collaborators

    Big Vitamin is a lot smaller than Big Pharma, but we’re talking tens of billions of dollars of revenue, which means they have more than enough to fund a legitimate trial. The fact that they’re still relying on some obscure and discredited Indonesian study tells me there’s not much there yet.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @vinteuil
  98. @HA

    The original claim for this magic bug juice was “95% effective.” Those goalposts started widening from the start.

    The risk factor for death or hospitalization from COVID is not vaccinated vs. unvaccinated status; it is age, obesity and medical fragility. 99% of the population overall who got COVID before it was a twinkle in Dr. Fauci’s eye survived it and never had to see the inside of a hospital.

    • Replies: @HA
  99. @Alexander Turok

    Unlike the “vaccination,” washing your hands, brushing your teeth and wearing your seatbelt have actual biomechanical benefits. An already 50% efficacious jab that starts wearing off within a couple of weeks is actually worse than nothing; it’s a leaky vaccine that’s counter-productive.

  100. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The video of Basilashvili was up on Telegram, it was kinda awful, even if he did not directly keel over like the soccer players. Maybe Sailer can do a tennis vs soccer myocarditis post.

  101. @Kratoklastes

    I had the Dead Kennedys’ California Über Alles in mind … and not too many English-speakers know that Impfung is the German for vaccination. Syllabically, Impfung fits the original “offensive” signs … vaccination fits the song.

    I must remember to decline meetings in BW.

  102. @Emblematic

    I haven’t been following all the ins and outs but it’s pretty clear Djokovic attempted to enter Australia improperly. And it looks like he’ll get away with it. Is anyone really upset though? People understand why an exception could be made in his case.

    Foreign pistoliers were allowed to enter the UK along with their weapons in the summer of 2012, and even permitted to fire them before crowds of Londoners who’d have been sentenced to years in prison for doing the same. Few locals complained.

  103. @Bardon Kaldian

    One half considers everything to be some kind of anti-Serbian conspiracy;

    The local Serbs were protesting in front of the hotel where he was being kept, with the mandatory Serbian flags unfurled and everything. A snippet of a TV interview I caught had some Serb saying in what sounded like FOB-accented English “Is wrong lock him up. He is not refugee, he is not criminal!”

  104. HA says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    “99% of the population overall who got COVID before it was a twinkle in Dr. Fauci’s eye survived it and never had to see the inside of a hospital.”

    Good for them. What’s next — are you going to tell me about all the pregnant women your drunk driver buddy DIDN’T crash into? Sorry, that isn’t relevant either.

    What IS relevant is that the unvaxxed portion of the 1% of who weren’t able to breeze through COVID was enough to clog ER rooms and hospitals by a factor of eight or so (relative to the vaxxed), causing mucho turmoil even to people who had the sense to try and do the right thing. That same fraction of vaccine-bedwetters, though a minority of the population at this point, managed to keep COVID transmitting at a rate 600% greater than the vaxxed. THAT is the issue. The “we’re not hurting anyone and want to live our lives as we see fit” line is wearing thin at this point.

  105. @Adept

    Adept wrote:

    Witten is a clever and insightful mathematician, but as a physicist he lacks a certain ontological sense — so that, generally, he works on self-referential and self-indulgent mathematical constructs. This is why everybody calls him “gifted,” he wins award after award, and yet his list of accomplishments in physics is startlingly meager.

    Speaking as a physicist, I am inclined to agree.

    No one denies Witten’s brilliance. However, while he holds a Fields medal in math, I have not heard him seriously discussed for the Nobel in physics.

    In case anyone is wondering , no, I am not claiming to be the equal of Ed Witten!

    Incidentally, unlike Witten, my own teacher, Dick Feynman, often expressed a healthy skepticism towards leftist orthodoxy.

  106. @Afgkllfdrss

    Djokovich is my third/favorite Serb, after Gavrilo Princip and Slobodan Milosevic.

    What? Not Tesla, or this guy?

    Peter Bogdanovich, ‘The Last Picture Show’ and ‘Paper Moon’ Director, Dies at 82

    The Chimes at Midnight sound for Peter Bogdanovich

    And don’t forget “Milorad” Blagojevich!

  107. Mark G. says:
    @HA

    Big Vitamin is a lot smaller than Big Pharma, but we’re talking tens of billions of dollars of revenue, which means they have more than enough to fund a legitimate trial.

    You have a free rider problem here. If a vitamin company spent money funding a study that showed vitamin D was effective in helping to treat Covid all the other vitamin companies would benefit from that because they could sell it too but, unlike the company that spent the extra money on the study, would have lower business costs from not having funded that study. A vitamin company gets no competitive advantage funding such a study.

    You see the same thing with drugs no longer under patent. One of the discoverers of Ivermectin went to Merck and asked them to do a study on whether Ivermectin was helpful in Covid treatment. Merck showed no interest since the patent was expired. At the same time, Merck had a new antiviral drug that they were quite interested in spending money doing studies on since they could patent it and then keep anyone else from selling it.

    The financial incentives here tend to tilt treatments toward patented drugs and vaccines and away from nutritional supplements and no longer patented drugs. Some individual doctors have had good success using the latter but are not able to afford large scale RCTs. Only Big Pharma has the money for a large scale RCT and they use their money to set up a large scale RCT for something they can patent.

    • Agree: clyde
    • Thanks: Matthew Kelly, Old Prude
    • Replies: @HA
  108. Rob says:
    @Alrenous

    Colds don’t kill ~1% of the people who get them. Is this seriously hard? However, were there a polyvalent rhinovirus vaccine, I would take it in a second. Having a cold is unpleasant. There is the hygiene hypothesis to contend with, but that seems to mostly apply to bacterial exposure, not viruses. If we need to be infected to be healthier, there are always live-attenuated vaccines and live enterovirus vaccination, which is cool. Japanese researchers discovered that giving people repeated sub-clinical enterovirus drinks during cold and flu season kicked up the antiviral response, significantly reducing respiratory infections.

    Coronavirus is not the sort of disease that we have trouble coming up with vaccines for. It is not a eukaryote nor does it infect cells required for the immune response. It does not have a sophisticated way to evade immunity, like malaria. It is not hypervariable, like HIV.

    [MORE]

    Four coronaviruses cause colds. There are coronavirus vaccines for animals. The (correct) theory of One Medicine is that if we can vaccinate one species for something, then we can vaccinate similar species for that thing. Incidentally, we can vaccinate animals for several protozoal diseases. There are both live-attenuated vaccines and subunit/killed organisms. The live-attenuated ones are much more effective. There’s not a veterinary vaccine for malaria, but there are ones for similar organisms.

    Bovilis, the cattle vaccine for a coronavirus HA helpfully linked to is live-attenuated. If we had a live-attenuated covid vaccine, especially an intranasal or oral one, we would likely get sterilizing immunity, which would even keep anti-vax freeloaders from getting sick.

    Empirical attenuation is an excellent application of evolutionary biology. it was under-utilized, despite extreme effectiveness. I think it is under-used today. Certainly with modern genetic engineering to provide cells/organisms in which to attenuate with engineered defects in various cellular antiviral responses to select pathogens that have lost adaptations to escape that antiviral response can be combined with transposon-mediated deletions in viral genomes to attenuate the pathogen.

    Here’s one where researchers did that to influenza. Genome-wide identification of interferon-sensitive mutations enables influenza vaccine design. They got a virus that caused a lot more interferon responses in vivo. Because attenuation was mediated by multiple deletions, it is probably difficult for the virus to revert.

    Immunogenicity and reactogenicity, the tendency of a vaccine to have negative side-effects in vaccinees typically go together. We tend to try to minimize reactogenicity in vaccines for people. The seasonal flu vaccine is an excellent example. These are usually killed virus, disassembled (killed) viruses, or just a protein. In most countries, flu shots do not even contain an adjuvant, an ingredient that provides a pathogen- or damage-associated molecular pattern (PAMP and DAMP, respectively). I think we went too far in making flu vaccines less reactogenic. If you get a flu shot too early, your antibody response likely won’t last that year’s flu season! Plus, flu vaccines are pretty ineffective, something like 50% at best. Not to mention, you need to get one every year because influenza mutates.

    The big problem with using empirical attenuation was the time involved. Attenuating bovine tuberculosis into the BCG vaccine took a decade. I forget how long attenuating yellow fever took, but a replication failed. But attenuation can be done much more quickly these days, as genetic engineering allows lots of variants to be produced. Deep sequencing enables researchers to identify variants that are, say, temperature-sensitive in just a few passages. Recoding genes can make reversions less likely, in addition to making viruses that more easily trigger antiviral responses.

    Way back when, like in the forties or the sixties or so, they were getting heterologous immunity, immunity to non-vaccinated strains, using a water in oil emulsion as an adjuvant. Now, I’m not suggesting using Freund’s complete adjuvant, but a flu shot that had side effects but actually works seems worthwhile. Italy recently switched to using adjuvanted seasonal flu shots, I think using alum, aluminum phosphate, and/or aluminum hydroxide microparticles to kill some cells (DAMPs) and prolong local exposure to the antigens. We will see how that goes. I have my fingers crossed.

    If you have a choice, I strongly suggest getting FluMist, the live-attenuated intranasal vaccine, over flu shots. Beneficial heterologous effects from live-attenuated vaccines are real. If you can swing a BCG vaccine for tuberculosis, it’ll even help with blood sugar problems.

    You do bring up a good point, though. We should have a live-attenuated vaccine as a prototype for every viral family. That way, creating a live-attenuated vaccine will be fairly easy. Much like the mRNA vaccines, where the company began designing the vaccine the day the genome was published, with a prototype coronavirus vaccine, substituting the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein gene could have begun immediately. In a lot of cases the “spike” protein equivalent, the viral protein that mediates attachment and entry can be traded out. This has been tried with flaviviruses and the yellow fever vaccine, for example. Pseudotyping, where a designed virus uses the “guts” of one virus and the envelope protein(s) of another sometimes works and sometimes does not.

    I have heard that vaccinology does draw the best scientific and technical minds. COVID may change that. To me, vaccines tie with antibiotics for the best medical tech man has devised. The struggle is not over, though. Cancer and autoimmune disorders may call for vaccine and vaccine-adjacent tech. Given that we need to make medicine better, faster, and cheaper, vaccines show us numerous examples that it can be done.

    Yeah, Alrenous, I know you don’t care about any of this.

  109. HA says:
    @Adam Smith

    “Worldwide Bayesian Causal Impact Analysis of Vaccine Administration on Deaths and Cases Associated with COVID-19: A BigData Analysis of 145 Countries…”

    I figured this was going to be entertaining, given Adam Smith’s vast dungeon of anti-vaxxer nuttiness, and I was not disappointed. Where was this intriguing “impact analysis” published and peer-reviewed? Apparently, by the well-respected editors of “GoogleDrive”. And who was the author of this study? One Kyle A. Beattie — Department of Political Science.

    I kid you not. Talk about scraping from the bottom of the barrel, but if you’re an anti-vaxxer, I guess that’s the only place you got left: “Results indicate that the treatment (vaccine administration) has a strong and statistically significant propensity to causally increase the values in either y1 or y2 over and above…”

    Ah yes, this sounds a lot like that sure-fire argument the anti-vaxxers used with respect to lockdowns happening in large urban areas, or else about how “avalanche warnings seem to be curiously frequent in Colorado and are practically nonexistent in states like Hawaii, and yet, Colorado has more avalanches! From this, we can definitely state that avalanche warnings have a strong and statistically significant propensity to causally increase avalanches, QED” Is that the gist of this, being the Bayesian analysis expert that you totally are?

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  110. @HA

    That same fraction of vaccine-bedwetters, though a minority of the population at this point, managed to keep COVID transmitting at a rate 600% greater than the vaxxed

    6 million%. Another Shoah.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  111. HA says:
    @Alrenous

    “America is a third world country game show: all the stats are made up because the numbers don’t matter.”

    Doesn’t seem to phase the anti-vaxxers when they’re railing about the benefits of ivermectin and Vitamin D. Where are the numbers for those being pulled from? No, the numbers don’t matter only when they tell you stuff you don’t want to hear.

    “Bonus round: it’s super easy to fake a positive test. Just run PCR a little longer than you’re supposed to. Result: fabulous cash prizes.”

    The excess death stats — which do not depend on PCR tests — seem to rise and fall well enough with the number of times COVID makes it to the “cause of death” listing on a pathology report.

    If you could come up with anything remotely as convincing as that — as opposed to “numbers don’t matter (except when I want them to)”, it would go a long way towards helping your case. As it is, I’m not surprised that even a guy who tortures beagles has a higher reputation than people like you at this point. Imagine that. And I will say if this nurse is an crisis actor just “making up deaths”, he deserves an award. Because I totally buy his spiel over anything you or the other can’t-take-a-needle bros have managed to dish out.

    • Troll: Alrenous
    • Replies: @clyde
    , @dimples
  112. JimDandy says:
    @Rob

    Omicron kills what percentage of the people who get it? Apparently, the Pfizer CEO says there will be an Omicron-specific Covid vaccine ready by March! How excited are you?

  113. @HA

    “I figured this was going to be entertaining…
    and I was not disappointed.”

    Hey, I aim to please.

    “Talk about scraping from the bottom of the barrel…”

    And yet you resort to ad hominem as you cannot disprove the data.

    [MORE]

    The epidemiological relevance of the COVID-19-vaccinated population is increasing

    Lancet: 89% of new UK COVID cases among fully vaxxed

    In the United States, Vaccination Rates Are Associated with Increased Rate of Spread of SARS-CoV-2, But Not How They Should Be

    Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

    “The trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people. Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.”

    “Across the US counties too, the median new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the last 7 days is largely similar across the categories of percent population fully vaccinated. Notably there is also substantial county variation in new COVID-19 cases within categories of percentage population fully vaccinated. There also appears to be no significant signaling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated.”

    “Of the top 5 counties that have the highest percentage of population fully vaccinated (99.9–84.3%), the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies 4 of them as “High” Transmission counties. Chattahoochee (Georgia), McKinley (New Mexico), and Arecibo (Puerto Rico) counties have above 90% of their population fully vaccinated with all three being classified as “High” transmission. Conversely, of the 57 counties that have been classified as “low” transmission counties by the CDC, 26.3% (15) have percentage of population fully vaccinated below 20%.”

    Moar Vaxx = Moar Cases!
    Enjoy Your Boosters.


    • Agree: Alrenous
    • LOL: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    , @HA
  114. sb says:

    Some people don’t seem to realise that Djokovic won his case on a procedural issue ie Australian Border Force didn’t do what they said they were going to do
    The “merits ” of his claim for entry are another matter

    Although my feeling ( I’m in Melbourne ) is that the Government will refrain from further action as it may be seen by the ( voting ) public as reeking of sour grapes . Mind you a clear majority were against Djokovic’s entry in the first place but as the Government allowed for the possibility of the unvaxxed to be allowed entry you can’t really blame Djokovic for attempting to enter via this route .
    I should also add that plenty also think that Djokovic was less than honest in his form filling .
    Anyway maybe the numbers for and against have evened out now . I don’t really know but the pro Djokovic crowd are certainly much louder

    Next year I expect the rules will be No jab No entry No exceptions

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  115. JMcG says:
    @Change that Matters

    I know a guy who set up some kind of video driving range in his enormous unfinished basement. He installed it himself, figuring to save a few bucks. He neglected to properly pad a lolly column. One of his drives hit the column and bounced back at him, destroying one of his eyes.

  116. JMcG says:
    @Undisclosed

    If the USG was truly concerned about getting everyone vaccinated, they’d have sidelined Fauci 18 months ago. Half the country will do the opposite of what that conceited pr**k says, no matter what.

  117. Goatweed says:

    As a three shot taker, I’m still curious about those who have been infected?

    Are the infected more resistant to subsequent infections by different strains?

  118. sb says:
    @BB753

    These lockdowns have been done by State Governments .
    The Federal Government headed by Morrison – a centre right leader -didn’t order any lockdowns as they are totally a State matter .
    I should add that State Governments of the Left have a much more authoritarian approach to lockdowns ( especially the State of Victoria which incidentally has had by far the most Covid fatalities )
    Morrison has often indicated that these States , in his view , overdo the lockdowns

    • Agree: Ed Case
    • Replies: @BB753
  119. roonaldo says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Sure, if the criterion is direct contact with the opponent’s body or the object he struck, then I agree that a 100 mile per hour hockey puck to the shins disadvantages me more than a 100 foot putt made by my opponent.

    I think some of those 30-1-1 boxing champs disadvantage folks by just being too hard to knock out. Makes me cringe, thinking of getting pummeled by older kids in neighborhood boxing matches and sandlot football. Ouch–must be those old injuries–time for that shot of moonshine–cheers!

  120. Sean says:
    @anon

    Growth Hormone is administered with large gauge hypo needle in the buttocks I believe.

  121. @sb

    Next year I expect the rules will be No jab No entry No exceptions

    My gym has numerous “no towel, no train, no exceptions” posters on the walls. I was actually asked to leave for not having a towel last year when they instituted the rule and I was unaware of it. One year on, the same manager walks by a dozen towelless people without uttering a peep. So as “woke” on covid as Australia is, I think you should probably expect plenty of exceptions.

  122. Buried in the WaPo article is the fact that Djokovic had previously tested positive for the WuFlu. The immorality of vaccine mandates aside, requiring a vaccine for someone who already had WuFlu is just insane. The world has gone mad.

  123. JimDandy says:
    @Mike Tre

    I believe he “dopes” legally–altitude chamber or something? Maybe that caused the misconception that he does steroids.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  124. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Golf with goalies would be impossibly difficult. Defenseman, though, could make it more interesting.

    What if you made each hole into a theme? Like one hole could be representative of Holland, with a windmill, it’s spinning blades acting as an obstacle to entry into the golf hole. The golfer would require perfect timing, and some knowledge of windmills, to defeat the obstacle, and “hole-in-one’s” would become more problematic.

    Another hole could be themed as an Indiana Jones movie. Once the player is on the actual green, he must make the shot within a specified time, or a massive boulder is released, making his birdie far more problematic to execute successfully.

    Another interesting hole could entertain/challenge via a stripper bar theme, replacing the golf hole flag with a stripper pole, the object for the golfer would be to defeat golfing legend Paige Spiranac as she performed on the pole in the hole. You have to think outside the box when creating golf challenges, I believe.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  125. @J.Ross

    I don’t think so. I think he’ll still be going on about how this latest list of gulag math test scores shows it’s still J>A>W>H>B.

    Also, how black slaves (or Black slaves) tend to act out more often than white slaves do and Lady Wu never aknowledges that because she’s a big fat lying poopie head.

    . . . . .

    The time to act against the Mommyist Tyranny is now.

    NO GREEN PASSPORTS EVER

    MASS VIOLATION OF MASK MANDATES

    it’s now or never.

  126. Rob says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    …as the vaccine chases and pushes the virus from behind, like the flu “vaccines.”

    What does this mean? Do you think that the vaccines put selective pressure on SARS-CoV-2 to be deadlier? This is unlikely. I think the analogy people use here is roughly, “antibiotics prevent severe illness from bacteria. Antibiotic use selects for bacterial resistance to the antibiotic. Vaccines prevent severe illness from viruses. Therefore vaccines select for vaccine-resistant/more virulent viruses.”

    Vaccines are not antibiotics. Vaccines prevent illness by giving the recipient a head start on immunity. If someone gets vaccinated, it is roughly the equivalent of already having had the disease. The better a vaccine is, the more closely it approximates “natural immunity” post-illness. Ideal vaccines would create stronger immunity than the infection, of course. See this Bull paper on that. If vaccinating people causes the disease to evolve higher virulence, then so does the “natural immunity” people have after they’ve been infected! In other words, lots of people being vaccinated does not select for more virulent covid strains any more than people getting covid sans vaccination.

    So, where does my analogy break down? Being vaccinated is not exactly like having had covid. The vaccines do not induce a secretory IgA response. Infection followed by recovery gives a greater T cell response, as the SARS-CoV-2 genome has more viral proteins than the vaccine does. It is easier for a virus to escape a narrower immune response. If this were the case, we would expect to see variants with more divergent non-structural proteins arise in places with lower vaccination rates versus variants that arise in places with higher vaccine coverage.

    That is not what omicron looks like. Omicron has highly diverged spike protein compared to the divergence of its non-structural proteins and envelope proteins that are not included in any of the vaccines. But omicron came up in Africa, where there is very low vaccine coverage.

    This does not apply if omicron is a second lab leak, possibly of a strain that was being attenuated for a live vaccine. I give that a ~20% chance of being true. Not higher than that because attenuating the virus in mice or murine is the most effective strategy. Plus, it is unbelievable that any significant work toward a more effective vaccine is happening in Africa, of all places. In the third world, India would be more likely, as there is both a smart faction and scientific enterprise there. Not to mention, the omicron spike is extremely diverged for an attempt at a vaccine. For an attenuated virus, one would prefer to mutate the “guts” of the virus, the rdrp or proteases, for example. Perhaps an ion channel. A spike protein that is different enough that neutralizing titers to older variants are much less effective against it is an odd choice for a vaccine. Not to mention, a virus attenuated in a non-human host is unlikely to be more infectious in people than the delta variant, to name one. On a humorous note, if Africans really were trying to create a vaccine, I would expect them to do stupid things.

    Tl;dr Vaccines are not antibiotics. They do not put more pressure on the virus than is created by the virus itself.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    , @Anon
  127. @Alexander Turok

    Do you have an arguent rooted in actual data or is it just “I feel culturally closer to some fascist totalitarian functionaries than to those anti-vax sportsball commentators?”

    • LOL: clyde
  128. @Rob

    Colds don’t kill ~1% of the people who get them.

    Neither does covid.

    • Replies: @Alrenous
  129. @Mike Tre

    That’s not the physique of a man who uses steroids.

    Novak Djokovic = Vodka-vino jock.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  130. clyde says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Mg bisGlycinate by Now Foods is what I have. I just put it in my mouth and swallow. You can chase it with water or juice. I am aware of mg L-threonate. It is pimped forth (blood-brain barrier) as the ultimate mg to take, and perhaps it is. Mag Citrate is popular.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  131. @Emblematic

    Actually there is a court ruling now. The judges ruled he did not act improperly.

    Perhaps changing your sources for superficial information might be in order.

    The MSM sadly are beyond untrustworthy and utterly shameless.

  132. sb says:
    @Hangnail Hans

    No thanks

    My guess is that Australians prefer their judges to rule on the law and not be politicians by another name .
    They like matters of public policy to be decided in the Parliament by their elected representatives and not made in so called court rooms where , for example ,a bunch of people with law degrees suddenly decide that there is a right to same sex marriage apparently contained in the foundation documents of the country

  133. clyde says:
    @Alexander Turok

    Is this hypothesis falsifiable? It seems to me that the booster should provide a test case, if people really do regret getting the vaccine, they won’t get the booster.

    Drop the “really”. You are behind the times. Holding conflicting schizo beliefs is the new normal. IOW regret getting vaxxxed but get the booster anyways. Why would this be unusual these days?

  134. clyde says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Hot load etc. Many laughs there. When the typical Australian Dan Andrews tin pot dictator issues his Covid decrees, are they for the sheep? the sheeple? or both?

    Are there more sheep than people in Australia? New Zealand has the higher sheep to people ratio.

  135. Daniel Andrews, the Trotskyist premier of Victoria, imposed a long and draconian lockdown on the citizens of the state whom he rules. However, Mr Andrews did make one exception: he permitted about 10,000 supporters of Black Lives Matter to parade through the streets of Melbourne to show their solidarity with St George.

  136. @Rob

    Vaccines are not antibiotics. They do not put more pressure on the virus than is created by the virus itself.

    Alas, it seems that your confident assertion is very likely false in the case of “leaky” vaccines, such as the anti-covid ones appear to be:

    According to a new study published today in the scientific journal PLOS Biology, some types of vaccines could allow more virulent versions of a virus to survive, putting those who are unvaccinated at greater risk of severe illness.

    To understand this, it’s necessary to examine the difference between “perfect” vaccines and “leaky” ones.

    Perfect vaccines are so-named because they mimic the perfect immunity that humans naturally develop after having certain childhood disease.

    “When a vaccine works perfectly, as do the childhood vaccines for smallpox, polio, mumps, rubella and measles, it prevents vaccinated individuals from being sickened by the disease, and it also prevents them from transmitting the virus to others,” said Andrew Read, an author of the study and an Evan Pugh professor of biology and entomology and Eberly professor in biotechnology at Penn State University…

    These less-than-perfect vaccines create a “leaky” barrier against the virus. Vaccinated individuals may get sick but have less severe symptoms, but the virus survives long enough to transmit to others, which allows it to survive and spread throughout a population.

    “Our research demonstrates that the use of leaky vaccines can promote the evolution of nastier ‘hot’ viral strains that put unvaccinated individuals at greater risk…”

    Marek’s disease used to be a minor ailment that did little harm to chickens in the 1950s, but the virus has grown stronger and today is capable of killing all the unvaccinated birds in poultry flocks, sometimes within 10 days.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/leaky-vaccines-can-produce-stronger-versions-of-viruses-072715

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    , @Alden
  137. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Apparently Nick Kyrgios and Novak dislike each other immensely. And Kyrgios is a total head case, someone to be ignored at all times.

    • Agree: silviosilver
  138. @Matthew Kelly

    But if it’s correct that the vaxxs don’t do squat on limiting transmission, then I am really confused as to why every regime around the globe is insisting on them — particularly for kids.

    The desperate scrabble for universal vaccination is fairly plainly a need to destroy the control group.

    • Agree: Mark G., acementhead, sayless
  139. The lunacy in Australia is sad to watch.

    At this point we know that the vaccines fail to prevent COVID. Even Pfizer has admitted that being fully vaccinated offers no protection. But don’t worry they will have a new improved vaccine against the omicron variant in 3 months.

    In 12 months will Australia still mandate everyone to get the Alpha Vaccine in addition to the new and improved Omicron vaccine ?

  140. @Reg Cæsar

    Golf with goalies would be impossibly difficult. Defenseman, though, could make it more interesting.

    Especially if they could only hit the ball in flight; with a Niblick.

  141. @William of Ockham

    On the whole I don’t disagree with your views on Australians (the “self loathing” bit tho is pure delusion) .
    However, you have
    not hit the nail on the head. A lot of this comes down to Australian egalitarianism — they don’t like to see the rich guy, the popular/powerful guy break or bend the rules & get away with it b/c they are rich, popular etc.

  142. The important thing is that he hasn’t got Covid now so what’s the problem? Not as if he can infect anybody.

    Now with the quarantine hotels. If you test negative for Covid-19 at a border before you enter a quarantine hotel and later test positive that should imply that you got Covid in the quarantine hotel and not that you brought it in with you. I get it that symptoms may take some time to develop after getting Covid but if you’re negative you’re negative so why all the restrictions? Of course the tests may not be reliable anyway.

  143. @Reg Cæsar

    Perhaps NFL with a golf ball might catch on ?
    Love to see a 1 or 3 point kick….

  144. AndrewR says:
    @Adept

    I don’t know but I think he needed a lot more severe bullying as a child

  145. @Anonymous

    Not being American I can only understood the Brady-hate/dislike in theory.
    If you love the game it should be hard to hate Brady — he really is the GOAT.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  146. AndrewR says:
    @Spud Boy

    Not at all excessive. He hit the ball in anger while leaving the court without looking where it was going. The fact that he didn’t want to hit anyone is relevant, but only slightly. A severe beatdown, a felony charge and permanent ban from the sport were all called for. They were too lenient.

  147. Mike Tre says:
    @JimDandy

    From what I have read, the desired effects of altitude chambers (basically packing the bloodstream with more red blood cells than normal) lasts a very short period of time. Pro cyclists use them as well. Their true benefit has been up for debate for a while. If you have the money and means, why not? Tiger Woods (and no doubt others) had his vision corrected to 20/15 so he could see the course better. Is that doping? It was clearly a deliberate modification to his physicality that likely helped him by some measure.

    I think the fact that steroid use has become so widespread, combined with the fact that steroids are portrayed as the “literally Hitler” hormone, makes people suspicious of any athlete who distinguishes himself within that freakish 1%

    • Agree: JimDandy
  148. Mike Tre says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “Novak Djokovic = Vodka-vino jock.”

    Well, it worked for Joe Nameth.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  149. mc23 says:
    @Adam Smith

    I know of 8 people who came down with Covid right after Christmas. The bulk are immediate family at the same gathering and two were family members at a gathering of a co-worker.

    All eight people who got Covid were boosted. In my families case it appears the carrier was boosted since they came down with Covid the day after where the others took 3-4 days to get sick.

    Does anyone claim that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit?

    • Replies: @HA
    , @Adam Smith
  150. mc23 says:
    @Goatweed

    Based on a family gathering over Christmas, No. Eight boosted people got sick at the same party.

  151. @for-the-record

    Yes. Leaky vaccines are a real phenomenon.

    The genie that is now out of the bottle is GOF research to breed a new strain of virus, and then announce a vaccine to protect you from that strain.

    Not saying that’s what happened with COVID, but that seed has been planted in a sociopath’s mind somewhere. Some Progressive is already thinking of this, and how good it would be to teach those Philistines a lesson! For the greater good, of course.

    Something similar has already happened, with suburban dad-type Bruce Ivins, Ph.D., becoming highly agitated and obsessive about the USG’s perceived lackadaisical attitude toward a bioweapons attack by Muslim terrorists.

    We need to move all the Heaven-on-Earth types far away from the levers of power.

    • Agree: sayless
  152. The latest news as per the Daily Mail is that Djokovic had also lied on his visa application about not having traveled within the previous 14 days when leaving from Dubai to Australia, when there is evidence that he had been in Spain a few days earlier during the time that he was supposed to be in 14 days quarantine after his positive test in Serbia on December 16th.

    Double fault.

    Game, set, and match.

    Incidentally, Djokovic, as a non-national, would be required to show proof of double vaccination to enter the United States of America also, but probably the US would not object too much to him lying on his visa application since he is a multimillionaire, famous, and often on TV.

  153. Brutusale says:
    @Adam Smith

    Some people are impervious to the data. Let’s post an update of the data I posted last week:

    https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2022/01/10/mass-reports-60986-new-covid-19-cases-over-3-days-as-well-as-53-new-deaths-from-friday/

    Hospitalized cases are 44% fully vaccinated.

    But wait, wastewater testing seems to peg the infection rate far higher than the official numbers, meaning that the death rate would be much lower.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mass-wastewater-data-suggests-covid-19-cases-substantially-higher-reported

    The last two years have seem the two biggest gaslighting exercises of my lifetime: the Great Covid Panic and the media’s Black Is Beautiful advertising fatwa.

    • Thanks: Matthew Kelly, Adam Smith
    • Replies: @HA
  154. @Change that Matters

    Cannot the Australians be allowed to enforce their own borders as they see fit without everyone and his aunt weighing in that the Australians are “unfair” or “unreasonable”? Isn’t that the point of the Westphalian nation-state to enforce whatever border law they please, especially with respect to persons seeking entry?

    If Israel can build a Wall, America ought to build a Wall, and iStevers should be OK that Australia builds its wall?

    There shouldn’t be any argument. The Australians should have stuck to their guns and said, “We have our laws, you don’t have to come here, buh bye, sir!”

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  155. Old Prude says:
    @Change that Matters

    Hitting golf balls at each other: Great game for boys! I might have taken up golf if we had thought of that when I was eleven.

    What we did think to do was sit ’round a depression in field while one of our older brothers shot arrows into the sky on a ballistic trajectory to fall in our whereabouts. Happy to say no one got an arrow through the top of the skull.

  156. Old Prude says:
    @Kratoklastes

    whether or not being ‘unboosted’ would cost you your livelihood

    Exactly: The local community college won’t allow attendance in any classes unless you are twice vaccinated and boosted. If you have your mind set on self improvement, you have to get the booster.

    I am sure all higher education has the same sheep-like mentality.

    This is a hell of a way to run a country.

    • Replies: @clyde
  157. Old Prude says:
    @Goatweed

    Coworker who got Covid last year and got vaccinated came down with Cooties last week. So that data point says: We’re all going to get it. Some twice. Take off the diapers already.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  158. Mike1 says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Someone that knows the basics. You can’t even talk about this stuff because people don’t have any base knowledge at all.

  159. @Adept

    Witten happened to be working in an era (after the formulation of the standard model) in which no one achieved success with new fundamental predictions. My suggestion is that the future lies with a reorientation of how string theory is applied, towards hints like MOND and the Koide formula, rather than traditional targets like grand unification and low-scale supersymmetry.

    As for the tweet about Djokovic: as a young man, Witten worked on the McGovern presidential campaign, so that may be a clue to his politics; and he is said to be a keen amateur tennis player, so that’s why he would notice and comment on this affair.

  160. HA says:
    @Mark G.

    You have a free rider problem here. If a vitamin company spent money funding a study that showed vitamin D was effective in helping to treat Covid all the other vitamin companies would benefit from that because they could sell it too but, unlike the company that spent the extra money on the study,

    And what about lobbies? You think the petroleum and dairy and soda companies can’t find some enemy-of-my-enemy rationale for pooling some of their earnings into lobbies and other trade associations, despite any free-rider worries? You don’t believe that Big Pharma somehow managed to overcome the same free-rider objections in putting together the lobbies that got them to where they are today? So why is that only a problem for the Big Supplements?

    On the contrary, I assure you that whatever you may think of Santa, lobbies and trade associations and any number of other people who are paid to persuade and bribe and threaten politicians and health officials on behalf of their backers do in fact exist, even for the vitamins/supplements industry.

    I will say this: given that you’re the one who held off getting a vaccine — and wound up in the hospital with COVID as a result — I guess that does give you some added expertise on the problems of being a free rider. It’s too bad that know-how is so perversely selective.

  161. HA says:
    @Adam Smith

    “And yet you resort to ad hominem as you cannot disprove the data.”

    I can’t disprove the data about avalanches being a bigger problem in states where avalanche warnings are regularly issued either. I’m still not idiotic enough to buy into the notion that avalanche warnings cause avalanches.

    But what I can do is not pin my hopes on some poli-sci wonk who now thinks he’s a sudden expert on epidemiology who evidently couldn’t even get some of his fellow poli-sci types to peer review his work. You, on the other hand, grasping at whatever you can, have no problem with that. That ain’t ad hominem.

    There’s a simple way to see if vaccines work: find out how many of the COVID dead managed to get jabbed, and divide through by their relative numbers in the population. That’s going to be a lot more persuasive than some Bayesian flim-flam. So, go and gather up a few links that address that very obvious metric — from what I can tell it is something your links managed to completely overlook for some strange reason — and then we’ll talk.

  162. HA says:
    @Brutusale

    “Some people are impervious to the data. Hospitalized cases [in Massachusetts] are 44% fully vaccinated.”

    In a state where 95% of the population has received one dose, and 75% have received two, the fact that only 44% are hospitalized already tells me something.

    But overall, this is a variation of the same trick that Berenson tried to pull in the case of the UK. Your supposed gotcha doesn’t mean squat unless we compare comparable age brackets.

    Talk about being impervious to data.

  163. Mike1 says:
    @HA

    Gotta love the guy who has discovered Dunning Kruger quoting made up numbers.

    The “wearing thin” messaging is a nice touch too for someone that pretends to read research papers. You’re not anyone’s Daddy here. The inability of the majority to comprehend even the most basic math has long been tiring for those that are able to understand how numbers work.

  164. Mike1 says:
    @Rob

    Small problem: the “vaccines” don’t work. Verbosity doesn’t change that.

  165. @Goatweed

    As an anecdotal example, I recently had Covid, probably Delta since it was a pretty hard flu symptomatically.
    I started feeling cruddy on my way back from a jobsite and I started losing some sense of smell a couple days later.
    I notified the customer, who is triple vaxxed, that I must have the ‘Vid and she came down with it quite hard about 3 days after seeing me. She had been around me for about 15 minutes.

    One of my employees who had had Covid early this spring sat in the truck with me for 4.5 hours that day and never caught a sniffle. Apparently, his natural immunity was still very strong 9 months out, while the customer’s month old booster was less effective.

    Naturally, individual results will vary but I thought the experience was interesting, for what an isolated incident is worth.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  166. Alden says:

    The Australian government is threatening to jail him for lying on his travel & immigration forms.

  167. @HA

    Give it up, shill. If the clotshot is 95% effective, the US will have 44,000 covid deaths in 2021, not the 550,000 we actually had.

    Do yourself a favor and take a vacation like your butt buddies Twat Would Be Shilling and utu. They will come back in late February plumping for the three-course Moronic clotshot and y’all can enjoy a moist homecoming orgy.

    Covid19 is a hoax, the clotshots are poison.

    • LOL: Old Prude
    • Replies: @HA
    , @Rob
  168. @Anonymous

    What if you made each hole into a theme? Like one hole could be representative of Holland, with a windmill, it’s spinning blades acting as an obstacle to entry into the golf hole.

    The thought of adapting a moribund course into a full-size version of a putt-putt has crossed my mind. Along with a miniature copy of St Andrew’s.

  169. Alden says:
    @for-the-record

    So let’s go back to children dying and being handicapped for life due to polio because chickens die of some chicken disease.

    The good old days smallpox diphtheria pertussis Scarlett fever measles which can be deadly on and on and on.

    Know why about 100 pilgrims landed in December in Plymouth Mass And only about 35 were alive in April?

    Diphtheria

    Diphtheria which wasn’t eradicated by vaccines till the mid 20 th century 1930s 40s..

    My grandmothers first husband died of it in the 1920s. Before the vaccine was developed

    3 siblings got polio the year before the Salk vaccine was given to all children.

    May you be reincarnated back to early 1950s and deal with many years of after effects of 3 small kids with polio as my parents did.

    MEN OF UNZ MEN OF UNZ and their ridiculous internet “ research “ and gullibility.

    • Troll: for-the-record, Ed Case
    • Replies: @Ed Case
  170. @Undisclosed

    ‘I mean, can Steve tell Omar that he was right all along without accepting Omar’s “boomerfag” insults? We – who were right – have them cornered.’

    You new round these parts? Sailer called people who are smart enough to reject the ineffectual clotshots “knuckleheads.” Sailer wrote that mega-cringe article “Done in ’21” where he predicted the clotshots would put and end to “covid”. Sailer embarrassed himself immensely all throughout this hoax.

    When Sailer gets something spectacularly wrong or world events contradict his various Narratives, he simply goes silent – he never admits error.

    You new round here?

  171. Sean says:
    @Mike Tre

    That’s why they call you Mike Tren?

    The son of a couple who ran a pizza restaurant, Djokovic eliminated all gluten from his diet.

    One of the tests was particularly interesting. Djokovic was asked to hold his arm up, after which someone tried to push it down. It was difficult.

    He was asked to do the same again, but with a slice of bread against his stomach. This time, his raised arm felt weak and could be pushed down quite easily. Bread was clearly his kryptonite.

    Dr Cetojevic, however, has stressed that the overhauling of Djokovic had a lot more to it beyond just gluten. It involved mindfulness, practising kindness towards self, feeling gratitude and breathing right. Some of Djokovic’s rituals may border on mumbo jumbo. Last year, Djokovic said that molecules in water react “to our emotions, to what is being said.” But they have brought consistent results over a decade.

    In 2011, some months after he first met Dr Cetojevic, Djokovic was virtually unbeatable. Leaner, faster and fresher, he won three majors, and 70 matches in all while losing only six.

    There was no letting up as 2012 arrived. Djokovic beat Rafael Nadal in a five-hour, 53-minute slugfest in the Australian Open final.

    From the year 2015 onwards he has been almost unstoppable again. If fit, he is certain to stand atop the sport’s history with the highest number of major titles. Currently, he is one short of Roger Federer and Nadal. This year, he also has a chance to become the first winner of the Grand Slam – winning all four big titles in a year – since Rod Laver in 1969.

    Anyone believes all that, I have some raffle tickets to sell you.

    • LOL: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  172. HA says:
    @mc23

    “Does anyone claim that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit?”

    Yes, do some reading. Talk to someone outside your echo chamber. The vaxxed are indeed less likely to be in the hospital and have fewer days in which they’re transmitting (though, to be fair, they are also generally more likely to also be masked and more willing to avoid crowds). Things like that still matter. With the alpha variant, the unvaxxed were six times more likely to transmit than the unvaxxed.

    That differential may be much lower in the case of omicron, which is better at breaking through the vaccine, but it won’t erase the fact that the vaxxed are still doing better than the unvaxxed when it comes to length of days in the hospital and so forth. Even after six months, at which point any antibodies conferred by the vaccines have dwindled significantly, the T-cell protection is still a force to be reckoned with.

    The one thing that the unvaxxed have in their favor is that they are more likely to die, at which point their ability to infect others diminishes drastically, but I’ll wait for the data to see if that changes the overall pattern we’ve seen till now as to who is more likely to transmit.

    Sorry if your 8 acquaintances went out and got careless over Christmas and New Year’s. No one said those vaccines were bulletproof, or an invitation to act recklessly, but again, the urge to ignore anything outside one’s echo chamber — including anything about how it’s not necessarily true that the party never ends — is undeniably a strong one.

    • Replies: @mc23
  173. Joe Joe says:
    @Meretricious

    I heartily disagree! To win a golf major only requires four rounds and you can survive a bad round. To win a tennis major requires seven rounds and one bad round knocks you out. Since Tiger Woods started dominating the PGA tour in 1997 there have been 58 different men who have won a golf major. In that same time only 23 different men have won a tennis major

  174. JimDandy says:
    @Mike Tre

    100% of those in the know would vote “natty” after seeing that picture. The shoulder mass is impressive, but I’m guessing that’s partially camera perspective.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  175. clyde says:
    @HA

    Jamoke, your problem is that you are too smart by half. Here is the vitamin D search engine, full of personal accounts. How taking high dose D3 cured them of X, or greatly improved their condition.

    https://taked3.com/can-high-dose-vitamin-d3-cure-your-disease/
    Does your ticker bother you? Put “heart” into the handy dandy D3 search engine. Put in the word “fungus”….. I see good results for D3 getting rid of their toenail fungus.

    • Replies: @HA
  176. @Rob

    To me, vaccines tie with antibiotics for the best medical tech man has devised. The struggle is not over, though. Cancer and autoimmune disorders may call for vaccine and vaccine-adjacent tech. Given that we need to make medicine better, faster, and cheaper, vaccines show us numerous examples that it can be done.

    Terrific, informative comment, Rob. Thanks.

    I think the biggest things going on with the Fauci are
    — differing perceptions of risk
    — politics and desire for political control
    which of course correlate quite a bit.

    But i think there is something going–on both sides–is people are just too far out of touch with historical human reality. Life used to be just way way way way way tougher and more fraught–more hazardous.

    And the anti-vax stuff–the Fauci aside, but as a general thing–is just looney tunes territory. Vaccines and antibiotics are the huge wins of medicine dramatically lifting the burden of disease. Incredible triumphs. (I’ll take the rest of modern medicine as well but honestly it’s a whole lot less important than just lifting the infectious disease burden.)

    • Replies: @Alrenous
  177. Mike Tre says:
    @Kratoklastes

    “Better to stump up a little more and get Mg L-threonate”

    This is correct. The other forms of magnesium are basically laxatives. For people who put their bodies into ketosis, equalizing electrolyte intake (sodium, magnesium, potassium, calcium, etc) is crucial for among other things avoiding the “keto hangover”.

    I’ve also read the while high sodium intake is attributed to hypertension, it’s actually the imbalance of high sodium intake in relation to low potassium and magnesium intake that contributes to hypertension. Studies have shown that equal intake of electrolytes returns blood pressure to more normal levels. So it’s not less sodium that is the solution directly, but that fact that sodium levels are brought nearer to the levels of potassium and magnesium.

    Personally, I supplement K and Mag 3 specifically because I love salt and season my food with it amply. At 46 and 240lbs my last BP was 121 over 70.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  178. Alrenous says: • Website
    @anonymous coward

    Even if the stats weren’t comically adulterated…

    We know from several antibody studies (and general knowledge of epidemiology) that 10-20 times as many are infected as show up in test numbers, so at maximum mortality is 0.1% – 0.05%. In short every wave has run to herd immunity, just like a cold.

  179. Mike Tre says:
    @clyde

    Mag 3’s big appeal to me is it doesn’t make me have the urge to take a crap every couple hours.

    • Replies: @clyde
  180. Alrenous says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    The problem with Fauci is that he’s part of the AMA.

    Medicine in America used to be cheap and widely available. But it’s okay: they fixed it.

    http://freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
    http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/lodge-doctors-and-the-poor/

    As of now, Conquest #3 applies firmly. Exposure to hospitals decreases your life expectancy. Unless you know exactly what you’re doing, you should avoid doctors like the plague. Or at least like a smoking habit, because the cost in life expectancy is about the same.

    From what I know, trauma surgery is good, and if you’re so sick with a bacterial disease you might die, you can get antibiotics. The rest is worse than useless.

  181. @Sean

    One of the tests was particularly interesting. Djokovic was asked to hold his arm up, after which someone tried to push it down. It was difficult.

    He was asked to do the same again, but with a slice of bread against his stomach. This time, his raised arm felt weak and could be pushed down quite easily. Bread was clearly his kryptonite.

    This has the fingerprints of the late Dr John Diamond:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Diamond_(doctor)

    “Muscle testing” was originated by an American chiroptactor:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Goodheart

    As imported physicians go, Dr Diamond inspired more confidence than Godwin Ofikwu:

    https://www.colorectalnv.com/about-us

    Parents of late Jeopardy! champion Brayden Smith, 24, file lawsuit claiming he died due to medical malpractice after hospital removed his colon but failed to put him on anti-clotting drugs afterwards

    Don’t they need more doctors in Nigeria than in Nevada?

  182. vinteuil says:
    @HA

    It’s darkly hilarious the way you guys search out and publicize any dicey studies you can find on Vitamin D, while ignoring the quite overwhelming evidence that:

    (1) Just about everybody outside the tropics who isn’t taking supplements suffers from chronic Vitamin D deficiency, especially in the Winter;

    (2) Vitamin D deficiency greatly increases ones vulnerability, not only to Covid, but to the common cold & flu;

    (3) Taking Vitamin D supplements at least up to 4000 iu per day is about as safe as safe gets.

    • Disagree: Sean
    • Replies: @HA
  183. vinteuil says:
    @Sean

    Is there any woman of child-bearing age who wouldn’t want to be seeded by this guy?

    • Replies: @Sean
  184. vinteuil says:

    Once, when midnight smote the air,
    Eunuchs ran through Hell and met
    On every crowded street to stare
    Upon great Ђоковић riding by:
    Even like these to rail and sweat
    Staring upon his sinewy thigh.

  185. Anon[243] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre

    It’s not the physique of a bodybuilder who uses steroids.

    Bodybuilders specialize in hypertrophy. Tennis players don’t.

    Steroids are a general performance enhancer even if you don’t bodybuild. They help increase and maintain lean body mass, help with recovery and energy maintenance.

    • Agree: Sean
  186. HA says:
    @vinteuil

    “It’s darkly hilarious the way you guys search out and publicize any dicey studies you can find on Vitamin D”

    What’s darkly hilarious is how when someone comes on this site to assert that a Vitamin D3 blood level of 90 ng/ml is the only thing you need to beat COVID, without providing ANY studies or evidence to back that up, what you take issue with is the one guy who DOES provide studies and evidence to show he’s talking smack. Now that’s comedy gold.

    What’s darkly hilarious in your comment is how not a single one of your points do anything to address to what extent Vitamin D will prevent COVID. “Everybody outside the tropics who isn’t taking supplements” is running low, you say? So what? Are you saying that none of those nursing home residents who died of COVID were taking a daily multivitamin and/or fortified milk, butter, bread, etc. that gave them the recommended dose of vitamin D? Really? If so, show me the evidence, however “dicey”. If not, then why would you think that even matters?

    I already told you I have no problem with anyone getting the recommended dose of Vitamin D — or losing weight, or starting an exercise regimen that works the lungs. I’m not standing in your way. What I have a problem with is anyone claiming that that (or ivermectin, or HCQ, or some combination of all those) is all you’re going to need to beat COVID without a single link or study to substantiate it. The lame Vitamin D studies that were criticized in the links I mentioned were backed by people from Harvard Medical and Karolinska Instutet in Sweden, both of whom are serious names. And all that was from last January. If they weren’t able to find any real evidence, and instead chose to cite flaky studies from some unknown hospital somewhere in Indonesia, that tells me a lot more than clyde’s assertiveness or your one-sided appreciation of dark humor as to how little evidence there is that Vitamin D blood levels are all we need to see our way through this.

    [MORE]

    Finally, I’ll note that the Vitamin D dosing back-and-forth has been around a while, in various forms. For a time, people were pushing cod-liver oil as being, at the least, worth the effort. But whatever that was supposed to do for you didn’t hold up to scrutiny either, and depending on the source, led to mercury issues, so it’s not so much in fashion these days. It may also be the case that, as with other vitamins, supplements in pill form aren’t nearly as beneficial as getting them directly from dietary sources (and I’m not sure where that puts Vitamin D fortified foods).

    All of which is to say that if you don’t have evidence that all you need to beat COVID is a blood level of this or that, stop talking with a guy who sees through what you’re doing. And if you’re going to try and defend someone who makes an assertion like that, you need to provide some real evidence for that, too — not irrelevant 3-point red herrings that neither I nor anyone else discounts but ultimately don’t add up to anything. Again, dose up on as much Vitamin D as you want, for all I care. Enjoy those kidney stones — I hear that’s a fun ride. Just don’t pretend it’ll do any more for you in tackling COVID than your precious ivermectin, or whatever other quack alternative you’ll be pushing tomorrow just because some Youtube vlogger suggested it and because it makes you feel like you’re bucking the system.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @vinteuil
    , @Brutusale
  187. Rob says:
    @Rob

    Meant vaccinology does not draw the finest minds. Maybe because so much was empirical and it looked like a mature field?

  188. Ian M. says:
    @Anonymous

    This guy seems to be cherry-picking to prove his thesis, as is evident from his caveat. He also stacks the deck by including guys like Hank Aaron, for example (great certainly, but a candidate for greatest ever? I wouldn’t have thought so).

    I would have said that in baseball, that the greatest have been universally reviled would be closer to the mark (at least in perception, if not perhaps in reality). Ruth is the exception there, not the rule. The author mentions Bonds and Cobb (although in actual fact, Cobb was not universally reviled, but rather his legacy is the victim of a fraudulent revisionist history). In addition, Ted Williams should be in the discussion, and he was a jerk, not sure how well-liked he was outside of Boston. For pitchers, from recent history you have guys like Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez, not guys exactly known for their lovability.

    Is Lebron universally beloved? That’s not my impression.

    Is Tiger Woods universally beloved? That’s also not my impression.

    What about Muhammad Ali in boxing? Iconic and larger than life yes, but hardly universally beloved.

  189. Travis says:
    @PiltdownMan

    so true. Australia took extreme measures , shutting down their borders, even banning their own citizens from returning home….all these mandates failed to stop the spread in Australia, just as they failed to stop the spread in Germany and California and the UK.

    These vaccines, by the way, do nothing to inhibit or curtail the spread of coronavirus. In fact, there is increasing evidence that they have negative efficacy, the vaccinated are more likely to contract the virus and pass it onto others – especially the Omicron variant – than their unvaccinated counterparts.

  190. vinteuil says:
    @HA

    …if you don’t have evidence that all you need to beat COVID is a blood level of this or that, stop talking with a guy who sees through what you’re doing. And if you’re going to try and defend someone who makes an assertion like that, you need to provide some real evidence for that, too — not irrelevant 3-point red herrings that neither I nor anyone else discounts but ultimately don’t add up to anything. Again, dose up on as much Vitamin D as you want, for all I care. Enjoy those kidney stones — I hear that’s a fun ride. Just don’t pretend it’ll do any more for you in tackling COVID than your precious ivermectin, or whatever other quack alternative you’ll be pushing tomorrow just because some Youtube vlogger suggested it and because it makes you feel like you’re bucking the system.

    Heh. Let the record show that commenter HA wrote this.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  191. Anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    I understand you might be losing sleep because of “mucho turmoil” in hospitals. But what about the 20k actual deaths from the vaccine, per VAERS. Does that bother you at all? How exactly do you feel about that?

    • Replies: @HA
  192. Wokechoke says:
    @vinteuil

    It sounds like a 350lb sweaty 25 year old guy with a balding pate. Everyone has had covid a couple of times in my circles at this point. Jig is up.

  193. Wokechoke says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    Australians put up strict borders to exclude East Asians. As you well know. Not to bloody well hassle an elite sportsman touring The Grand Slam circuit.

  194. I feel like I might’ve had something to do with this flamewar.

    You’re welcome, Steve.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  195. HA says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    “If the clotshot is 95% effective, the US will have 44,000 covid deaths in 2021, not the 550,000”

    We had 50M people vaccinated as of end of Feb, 100M vaccinated as of end of Mar, by which point the death toll was roughly 550K. Since then it’s grown about 300K, and most of those corpses — I’m going to say 85% — were unvaxxed. In other words, 255K unvaxxed dead vs 45K vaxxed, the latter number being pretty close to the 44K number you gave me.

    No one claims the “clotshot” will save those who don’t bother to get one so don’t try and blame them on the vaccine.

    All this to say, I’m not sure what part of 255K vs 45K that tells you that vaxxes don’t work, because it’s pretty obvious from that that they do, but given how you do math, I don’t really care.

  196. Brutusale says:
    @animalogic

    Most of it comes from the institutional arrogance of the Patriots organization, of which Brady was the most visible member. Then there was the sin, at least to some of the distaff community, committed when Brady threw his baby mamma over the side and married the world’s wealthiest supermodel.

    Being American, I don’t understand the Ronaldo hate from the international Communist Kickball community, right down to the idiot who penned that list writing that the world’s all-time scoring leader is in the top 15!

  197. Brutusale says:
    @Barbarossa

    I spent the day with my unvaxxed girlfriend and had dinner with her and her 89-year old mother the day before I tested positive for Delta. Neither caught a thing.

  198. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “But what about the 20k actual deaths from the vaccine, per VAERS. Does that bother you at all? How exactly do you feel about that?”

    We had hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine administered in the last year, many to high-risk people in their 80s and 90s. Whenever any of them died within a month — for whatever reason — the health services were told to list them on VAERS. It doesn’t mean the vaccine killed them, no matter what your Facebook feed tells you. So stop with the “actual deaths from the vaccine”. That’s not what VAERS recorded.

    I know the people wetting their panties over COVID needles are really up in arms about myocarditis, but we’ve known since Apr of 2020 that COVID causes clots, and subsequent studies indicate you’re more likely to get a clot from that than from the vaccine — the only possible group for which myocarditis risk from vaccines is greater than from COVID is for young boys, but that’s from a non-peer-reviewed paper published on Dec 24 that has some obvious (though perhaps minor) errors, admits that there just aren’t enough myocarditis events to produce solid evidence, and moreover, those results conflict with a larger FDA study that was carried in order to approve Pfizer for children. Plus, it’s an addendum off an earlier paper by the same authors that affirms my earlier point, which is that for everyone else aside from young boys, the myocarditis risk is actually worse from COVID than from the vaccine, so if it’s inevitable you’re going to get COVID, which seems more and more likely, you’re better off getting the vaccine first.

    So I’ll wait for the actual peer-reviewed version to come out, and maybe it will indeed be the case that young males shouldn’t get a vaccine. It wouldn’t surprise me. But for everyone else, so far, the data points in the other direction.

    Granted, every single health measure has risks associated with it. The sprinkler system that protects you from the fire in your office will cause some people to slip and fall, and maybe cause electrical shorts, and that kills people now and then. People slip and fall from fire escapes when leaving a burning building — it’s regrettable, but it happens. Air bags have decapitated small children, and can and do cause serious damage to anyone, but the data so far show you’re safer if you don’t disable them. Same goes for vaccines.

    You show me any data whatsoever — apart from the exceptions I noted — that shows me you’re less likely to die from COVID than the vaccine, and get back to me. If you don’t give a flip about all the hospitals you’re clogging, and all the morgues the unvaxxed are stacking, don’t try and pretend that I’m the one who’s being callous here.

    • Thanks: silviosilver
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wokechoke
  199. Brutusale says:
    @HA

    Just don’t pretend it’ll do any more for you in tackling COVID than your precious ivermectin, or whatever other quack alternative you’ll be pushing tomorrow just because some Youtube vlogger suggested it and because it makes you feel like you’re bucking the system.

    About that ivermectin…

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/hidden-military-documents-reveal-nih-intent-create-sars-cov-2-using-gain-function-research

    • Replies: @HA
  200. Both the Bogdanoff/Bogdanov twins died, with if not necessarily of Covid, in the past two weeks.

    Is Botox a risk factor?

    Paris says farewell to ‘extraterrestrial’ Bogdanoff twins

  201. Mike Tre says:
    @Matthew Kelly

    Steve’s flirting with a deadline, that’s why minimal new posts today I’d guess.

  202. HA says:
    @clyde

    “Here is the vitamin D search engine, full of personal accounts.”

    Gosh, what could possible be more convincing than “1000+ Self-Reported Case Studies” by a website whose top banner is an for “The Miracles of Vitamin D3”?

    So, if hypervitaminosis D kills me, how am I going to be able to “self-report” my case study? Oh well, I guess I wouldn’t be able to. Too bad.

    Anyway, if this is the alternative to Big Pharma, I’m not surprised they’ve won the latest round.

    • Replies: @clyde
  203. @Mike Tre

    Is there anything more childish than adult fascination with anagrams?

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    , @Reg Cæsar
  204. @JimDandy

    No shit. It wouldn’t even come up for “natty or not” discussion in the first place.

  205. Mike Tre says:
    @silviosilver

    Well, it worked for Hannibal Lector.

  206. HA says:
    @Brutusale

    “About that ivermectin…”

    Yeah, what about it? Ivermectin ranks somewhere above placebo, and somewhere below 95% confidence level — one study said it reduced the sick-time from six days to four. So I’ll give you that because it doesn’t change anything about my argument. I notice nowhere in that story is there a list of HOW well ivermectin works. Back in April 2020, when this paper seems to have been issued — about a year before the vaccines were rolled out to everyone — ivermectin may well have been the best thing around. But now? Who are you kidding?

    I want actual bona find numbers — not vague qualitative mush. What’s the actual reduction in the death toll that ivermectin gives you? Do you even know?

    So go ahead and find out, and stack it against a 10-fold or so reduction in death toll that the vaccines give you (at least, so far) and then get back to me. Maybe at some point, as the virus keeps evolving, the vaccines will become so ineffective that ivermectin might win the day (assuming the virus doesn’t find a way to evolve past that, too). But not today.

    [MORE]

    And remember: India and China are the world manufacturers of ivermectin, with the latter capitalizing the animal market (and I’m sure Merck still has a stake in the companies that crunch it out, so that’s three big names in that corner of the ring).

    Those two countries previously were able to bribe or bully the WHO into accepting their quack traditional medicine as totally legit Ayurvedic cow urine, and who knows what else. Any pittance that the Chinese and Indians are making from their own vaccines is dwarfed by the potential windfall that they’d get from the west if they could similarly bribe or bully someone at the WHO to declare their ivermectin as “just as good as vaccines”. But they couldn’t do that. THAT should tell you how lame ivermectin is.

    Back when HCQ was the hot ticket, there were rumours it was being hoarded by nurses and doctors. You think it’s the doctors who are hoarding ivermectin for themselves? It isn’t. THAT tells me how lame ivermectin is. Again, if they ever decide to lay out what ivermectin actually does, according to a legit controlled study with a decent sample size — the ones that were done in the last year were fairly unimpressive but again, maybe they just weren’t able to bribe enough people or doctor the results sufficiently — get back to me. China and India, and any number of other players, have more than enough clout to put something like that together. If they don’t, stop trying to pretend a DARPA document from April of 2020 means anything at this point.

  207. Anonymous[449] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    So I’ll wait for the actual peer-reviewed version to come out, and maybe it will indeed be the case that young males shouldn’t get a vaccine. It wouldn’t surprise me.

    Hmm, you do look pretty callous to me, if you’re stll for mandating vaccination for young males. How about waiting for after the peer reviews, or at least giving kids a choice. Or is it you like to be surprised?

    • Replies: @HA
  208. @silviosilver

    Tennis? Golf? Football?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  209. J.Ross says:
    @Goatweed

    Have you seen the chart that shows the manufacturers were coordinating batches (so at any given time, the current batch from one manufacturer would be experimental, while the other two vaccines were not)?

  210. Rob says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    What the hell, yo? You call out utu, That Would Be Telling, and HA as vaccine shills.

    but why not me? I am as pro-vax as they are!

  211. Sean says:
    @vinteuil

    https://www.theonion.com/woman-masturbates-to-concept-of-commitment-1819566960
    Woman Masturbates To Concept Of Commitment

    PORTAGE, MI–Soaking in her bathtub Tuesday, area resident Linda Marston, 32, pleasured herself over the thought of a long-term committed relationship. “Mmmm… oh, yeah, baby… I want to settle down with you forever,” moaned the never-married Marston,. “Oh, God, yes… two kids, maybe three… and a house in the country. Big swingset in the backyard.” Several hours later, Marston masturbated again to the idea of loving someone unconditionally through good times and bad.

  212. @Reg Cæsar

    You’re not required to approve of those activities, but what exactly is childish about any of them?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  213. Ed Case says:
    @Alden

    Sounds like you came from poor Stock.
    Just as well you didn’t breed, eh?

  214. clyde says:
    @HA

    Anecdotes are good, you are afraid to admit them as evidence. D3 toxicity is 95% myth. The K2 and magnesium you take with high daily dose D3 guards against this toxicity anyways. When I see your name I think of “Ha Ha Said the Clown” by Manfred Mann.

  215. Sean says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Tiger put on 30lbs ofmuscle and began wearing tight clothes to show it off. Have you seen Mickelson’s calves? Lance Armstrong had cancer, Mickleson has a form of arthritis. Both were perfectly legitimately taking powerful drugs for strictly medical reasons, and if it let them train six days a week as Tiger Woods did why would they stop once they had recovered? Steroids reduce inflammation, so even a standard non steroid not PED medication for arthritis may be useful for an athlete. Also, inflammation makes you depressed and golf is a more mental game.

  216. clyde says:
    @Old Prude

    Exactly: The local community college won’t allow attendance in any classes unless you are twice vaccinated and boosted. If you have your mind set on self improvement, you have to get the booster.

    If you must get vaxxed, here is advice on what to do>
    Update On Vaccine Antidotes To Detox & Release Toxins
    https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/11/17/dr-judy-mikovitis-update-on-vaccine-antidotes-to-detox-release-toxins/
    better video here>>



    Video Link

  217. I guess everyone knows by now, but Djokovic has now come clean, sort of, and admitted to false information on his Oz visa application.

    Read all about it!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10393405/Novak-Djokovic-deported-Australia-government-prepares-case-chuck-out.html

    However a question still remains about how Djokovic did his 14-day quarantine under Serbian law after his positive test on pain of up to three years in prison for noncompliance. Should he get locked up, he might want to take up basketball or soccer to keep fit, as few prisons have tennis facilities.

  218. ANON[146] • Disclaimer says:

    pukeovic will lose in the third round – the russian will win again

  219. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob

    @ If vaccinating people causes the disease to evolve higher virulence, then so does the “natural immunity” people have after they’ve been infected!

    Well, that is the case of dengue. Second natural infections of dengue tend to make more severe (hemorrhagic) forms, whereas the first natural infection passed mildly in the same individual. That is why 100 children died when they started to vaccinate, due to the vaccine causing antibody-facilitated, more severe, infections. Today, the recomendation for the dengue vaccine is to only vaccinate children who previously have had the disease. Real life medicine is not so clear-cut as you seem to think.

    Your use of the term “vaccine”, from which you derive your later conclusion, is too broad. To understand the covid pandemic, and the utility if any of the current vaccines, you must differentiate between DNA and RNA viruses. For the first, you can develop a highly immunizing vaccine and control epidemics. That is the case of polio, for example. (We have not eradicated polio, of course. In fact, there are now more polio variants caused by vaccines than by nature). For the RNA viruses, we have not developed a highly immunizing vaccine, witness the flu vaccine.

    Mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is wholly different from orderly vaccination campaigns absent an epidemic. In the Covid mRNA vaccines case, it does put selection pressures (on the spike). Additionally, it increases the chances of a recombinant variant to appear, and that variant could be deadlier. Thankfully Omicron is more benign. However, studies are coming out in the US, France and Denmark that these leaky mRNA vaccines are (probably) causing a high number of antibody-facilitated covid cases (at least 30%).

    • Replies: @Rob
  220. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Hmm, you do look pretty callous to me, if you’re stll for mandating vaccination for young males.”

    I’m agnostic on mandates for anyone, let alone young males. Why would you even think otherwise, given that I never even discussed them in this thread? Is it because you’re a moron who’s given to making all sorts of unwarranted assumptions about people absent any evidence? If you don’t like me making unwarranted assumptions like that about you, then stop with your own. The issue at hand was whether vaccines save more lives than they destroy, and based on what the anti-vaxxers around here have been able to gather so far, it’s pretty clear that they do (at least until that long-anticipated mass die-off some of them were predicting this winter finally rolls around). But mandates are another matter, and as with anything else in life — and that includes vaccines — there are other tradeoffs to consider and it may well be that at this point any lives saved by a mandate might be minimal in comparison with the Pandora’s box of other problems they introduce. Same was true for lockdowns. They undoubtedly saved lives — which all the truthers who are alarmed that we have more deaths now that they’re gone are implicitly admitting — but they’re a big can of worms, too, and what might work for Chicago may be completely unsuitable for some small town in Iowa. So I try to stay clear of that.

    In the end, if your job mandates any treatment you don’t want, and you don’t want to pay for weekly testing, or whatever alternative they give you, then leave. If the school your kid goes to mandates a vaccine you don’t want him or her to take, then find some other school. If your employer or your school board doesn’t want to deal with the costs and health consequences of dealing with a bunch of anti-vaxxers, I can well understand why at this point. Just go your separate ways and quit crying about it. I ‘ll save my tears for those who really had it rough, not the likes of you.

  221. @mc23

    Clearly you jest…

    The ClotShots were marketed by Big Pharma and authorized by the people masquerading as “government” claiming that they prevent transmission and infection.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  222. Wokechoke says:

    None of these of these passports or measures and punishments were ever discussed in the 2020 US election. They were all on the drawing board already.

  223. Bernard says:

    Perhaps I’m a bit late to this discussion, but if an individual has contracted the disease and has recovered, isn’t that superior in preventing infection to any vaccine available today?

    I’m a pro-Vaxxer, I also think that for most people, not getting vaccinated ranges from silly, but relatively harmless, to dangerously reckless. Having said that and being “pro science”, I know that antibodies from an earlier infection are the best protection a person can have. If one takes a PCR test and it shows sufficient antibodies to indicate that the individual was infected, it should be considered the equivalent of a vaccination.

    The totalitarian, one size fits all mindset of the left is so strong that common sense is impenetrable.

  224. Wokechoke says:
    @HA

    Hi, a lot of people have actually had Covid19 by now. What you are selling is getting old.

    • Replies: @HA
  225. @Mike Tre

    The focus on sodium happened because it was easy to turn into a catchphrase that people could understand: eat less salt. Everyone knows what [table] salt is.

    Turns out that this – like almost all government dietary advice – was based on shoddy analysis (the Dahl study). Dahl fed rats the human equivalent of 500g – over a pound – of salt a day… the rats became hypertensive: PROOF!

    Like all ‘public health’ bullshit, the bureaucrats will not abandon their ‘low salt’ drivel – so people who trust ‘public health’ fuckwits subject themselves to an intervention that simply doesn’t work. Cochrane reviews of the literature find absolutely zero support for low sodium intake as a useful intervention for cardiovascular health.

    As you point out, the ratio of K to Na is far more important than the level of [dietary] Na; adequate bioavailable Mg is also critical, primarily since it relaxes the walls of large arteries, due to its effects on the glycocalyx (vascular endothelium).

    And Iodine supplementation is important for metabolism regulation – mostly because of Iodine deficiency in modern agricultural produce, but also for those saddled with with fluoridated water (I drink unfluoridated, but I shower in tap water).

    Fluoride ‘crowds out’ other halides – in particular Iodine – this means that the thyroid can’t produce key metabolic regulatory hormones T3 and T4 (triiodothyronine and thyroxine).

    Is it any wonder that a very large proportion of the population shows evidence of metabolic dysregulation?

    As I’ve said before: ‘public health’ dietary advice has been wrong in the same direction too often. If the errors were random we would expect some advice to be good for you: since they’re absolutely non-random, we should call it what it is: deliberate.

    • Agree: Mike Tre, sayless
    • Replies: @JMcG
  226. JMcG says:
    @Kratoklastes

    If you would be so kind, could you point me to a resource that discusses such supplements? Thanks very kindly for your trouble.

  227. @pyrrhus

    The vast majority of intellectuals are leftist, both in the humanities and the sciences. Several of the physicists that worked in the Manhattan Project were tried for treason, and I think two were executed for sending secrets to the Soviets.

    Elites, both cognitive and socioeconomic, tend to be either left-wing or center-left and in a minority, libertarian(anti-nationalist, anti-government). Right-wing conservatives are really, really rare among cognitive and socioeconomic elites. Right-wing conservatives are most common among the lower educated, lower income brackets. For instance, among whites, voting Republican correlates very strongly with not having a college degree.

    I think that it was Charles Murray that mentioned that, that the people that most embody the old coservative values of staying married for life, investing heavily in one’s children education and rearing, sobriety and orderliness, etc, are upper middle-class liberals, especially in urban areas.

    Among whites, being a right-wing conservative correlates very strongly with being in the working classes, not having a college education, having children out-of-wedlock, etc. There are exceptions, of course, but it holds true on average.

  228. mc23 says:
    @HA

    I’ve searched for information on transmission risks by vaxxed versus unvaxxed and haven’t found it. I would think there would be data on this and I’d like to see the Government make the case with data for vaccination based on reducing the risk to others.

    I am vaxxed, not boosted. I could care less if people aren’t vaxxed unless their chances of spreading the disease are much higher then vaxxed folks. Certainly for people under 30, even 40, I can see a case for not taking a new leaky vaccine unless they are spreading the disease to others.

    Societies main obligation should be to provide for the wellbeing of their youth and productive people. I don’t see the vaccines providing much protection for young health people but if it cuts down transmission that’s a different story.

    Peak covid fear is over for most people. We will be managing this disease for years. It’s a shame it’s a political football.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @HA
  229. HA says:
    @Wokechoke

    “Hi, a lot of people have actually had Covid19 by now.”

    Great, maybe we can put to rest the “I don’t know anyone who has it, therefore it doesn’t exist” meme. To them I say “See? Told ya so”.

    As for what you think I’m selling, the fact that the death tolls — though thankfully, a tiny fraction of those who “had Covid19” — are overwhelmingly predominated with those who buy into whatever it is that you’re selling, even though they’re a minority of the country at this point, well, that is close enough to a win for me. I have no illusions about trying to sway the likes of you, but even now, there’s still a few people on the fence, and if I can sway the likes of them, that’s frosting on the cake.

  230. HA says:
    @mc23

    “I’ve searched for information on transmission risks by vaxxed versus unvaxxed and haven’t found it. “

    Problem is, as with the comparison study that tries to disentangle the relative myocarditis risk between vaxxed and unvaxxed, there’s an “owl flies at midnight” effect to all this stuff, in that by the time they can get enough data to say anything definitive like what you’re looking for, the game has changed. The myocarditis study I mentioned presumably was mostly about alpha, and maybe also delta, but who knows how it’ll change with omicron, so in that sense it’s already out of date.

    The six-fold reduction in transmission I cited earlier was claimed for the alpha variant, and any such claims are probably significantly less impressive in the case of delta, (and maybe less impressive still for omicron). But the reduction in hospital time (and likelihood of going to an ER) will still seriously dent the likelihood of transmission, and even with omicron, the vaccines still do a good job of keeping people out of those.

    But like I said, it’s a moving target, not to mention skewed datasets (e.g. those who don’t believe COVID exists and that vaccines are unnecessary aren’t going to bother being careful when they get “under the weather”, and so they’ll spread the disease more, but that has nothing to do with vaccines per se) and we’re always going to be like generals who foolishly keep fighting the previous war.

  231. HA says:
    @mc23

    “I’ve searched for information on transmission risks by vaxxed versus unvaxxed and haven’t found it. “

    Problem is, as with the comparison study that tries to disentangle the relative myocarditis risk between vaxxed and unvaxxed, there’s an “owl flies at midnight” effect to all this stuff, in that by the time they can get enough data to say anything definitive like what you’re looking for, the game has changed. The myocarditis study I mentioned presumably was mostly about alpha, and maybe also delta, but who knows how it’ll change with omicron, so in that sense it’s already out of date.

    The six-fold reduction in transmission I cited earlier was claimed for the alpha variant, and any such claims are probably significantly less impressive in the case of delta, (and maybe less impressive still for omicron). But the reduction in hospital time (and likelihood of going to an ER) will still seriously dent the likelihood of transmission, and even with omicron, the vaccines still do a good job of keeping people out of those.

    But like I said, it’s a moving target, not to mention skewed datasets (e.g. those who don’t believe COVID exists and that vaccines are unnecessary aren’t going to bother being careful when they get “under the weather”, and so they’ll spread the disease more, but that has nothing to do with vaccines per se) and so we’re always going to be like generals who keep trying to fight the previous war.

  232. Rob says:
    @Anon

    To understand the covid pandemic, and the utility of any of the current vaccines, you must differentiate between DNA and RNA viruses. For the first, you can develop a highly immunizing vaccine and control epidemics. That is the case of polio, for example. (We have not eradicated polio, of course. In fact, there are now more polio variants caused by vaccines than by nature). For the RNA viruses, we have not developed a highly immunizing vaccine, witness the flu vaccine.

    Polio is an +RNA virus. A cousin of the common cold. Fun fact, polio does not really get anything out of paralyzing people. It’s an enterovirus that just by dumb luck undergoes short-term evolution in someone infected that just happens to cause tropism for muscle neurons.

    People have engineered low-reversion polioviruses. Engineering the Live-Attenuated Polio Vaccine to Prevent Reversion to Virulence and Rational Design of Genetically Stable, Live-Attenuated Poliovirus Vaccines of All Three Serotypes: Relevance to Poliomyelitis Eradication. The first has prettier pictures. I found a paper someone did on evolving a temperature-sensitive poliovirus for the production of inactivated vaccine. An under-explored area. If inactivated vaccines were made from attenuated viruses, there would be less risk when inactivation is incomplete. Workers would be at less risk during the manufacture, and the dangers of a lab leak are greatly reduced.

    Both endosomal and cytosolic DNA, pppRNA, and dsRNA trigger pathogen-associated molecular pattern receptors. Extracellular unmethylated CpG DNA triggers PAMPs, but maybe only when it’s endocytosed? I’m too lazy to google, but I’d be pretty sure extracellular dsRNA triggers some PAMP receptor or another. Again, perhaps only when endocytosed.

    People seem to think that RNA viruses are more mutation-prone than DNA viruses. This is true on a per-base, er, basis, but probably not true on a per-genome basis. Most viruses average one missense mutation per genome per replication.

    Smallpox was defeated by vaccination, but only incidentally to being a dsDNA virus. Smallpox has a huge genome. Want to say 200kb, but will google. Hey, variola has 185kb! I was close. There’s room for a lot of genes in there. More proteins means more things the virus can do, but it also means there are more molecular “handles” for antibodies to grab. There are also more possible MHC-displayed peptides to trigger helper and killer T cells. For comparison, SARS-CoV-2 has around a 30kb genome.

    Smallpox eradication should give us some clues about how other diseases could be eliminated by vaccination, i doubt we will heed them Rinderpest, which infected cattle, was also eliminated. For those of you keeping score, rinderpest was a negative-sense RNA virus.

    So, score so far
    DNA virus: 1
    RNA virus: 1

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  233. @silviosilver

    You’re not required to approve of those activities, but what exactly is childish about any of them?

    Not doing them, watching them. What’s manly about that? At least wordplay sharpens one’s mind for prosody.

  234. clyde says:
    @Mike Tre

    Mag Threonate is supposed to be the ultimate. Must be taken with water or juice. Life Extension company is big on it and sells a lot on Amazon. Going by the number of reviews they get. I should buy some.

    What Is Magnesium Threonate? We Explain Everything To Know
    Search domain the-unwinder.comhttps://the-unwinder.com › insights › what-is-magnesium-l-threonate
    Magnesium threonate promotes cognitive function, reduces symptoms of anxiety and depression, and enhances muscle recovery. Magnesium L-threonate has been referred to as the “master mineral” for a variety of reasons. Here, we’ll explain everything you need to know about magnesium L-threonate including its benefits, proper dosage, and where …

  235. @Bernard

    Perhaps I’m a bit late to this discussion, but if an individual has contracted the disease and has recovered, isn’t that superior in preventing infection to any vaccine available today?

    Apparently not. In most cases the natural immunity acquired after having been sick with Covid-19 does not last as long as the immunity obtained from a vaccine.

    Since you have paid absolutely no attention to any current discussions regarding vaccines, it is a massive leap for you to confidently say that you know that prior infection is the best way to obtain immunity and at the same time say that you are all in favor of following the science, when that is not what the science claims.

    You are completely disregarding the fact but when somebody is given a second vaccination or a third vaccination, then that turbocharges the antibodies to an even higher level then before.

    • LOL: Marcion
    • Replies: @vinteuil
  236. @Bernard

    From the start the fully recovered should have been discouraged from getting vaccinated. Those who have recovered have long-term immunity and it is foolish to mandate vaccinations to those with natural immunity.

  237. vinteuil says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    In most cases the natural immunity acquired after having been sick with Covid-19 does not last as long as the immunity obtained from a vaccine.

    Jeezus, dude – how do you live with yourself?

  238. vinteuil says:
    @Rob

    The first has prettier pictures.

    The parody is too obvious, my friend. You’ve got to do it so somebody could read it all the way through without noticing.

  239. Rob says:

    Not a parody. Pictures communicate quite a lot when done well. Some journals even do “graphical abstracts.” I thought the first paper I linked was more interesting. Among other things, they evolved a viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase to have a lower rate of missense mutations and less template hopping.

    I have a ton of sympathy for the anti-vaxers. The same people telling them to get vaccinated are the ones telling them “die white people, die!” The authorities, not just Trump, though he did a poor job, really effed up every stage of the pandemic. You know how the President (or a governor) can declare someplace a disaster area and it changes what people can/have to do? I think the President should be able to declare “it’s a pandemic, yo,” allowing say, any university lab that can produce PCR primers to test people without FDA approval and be able to ignore HIPA on the results. That’d really help with the sclerotic FDA producing faulty test kits and not approving any other tests. Pandemic would mean flights are suspended from every place that has the disease. US citizens in pandemic areas are not flown home. The state department can pay for their hotel stays in Wuhan.

    Anyway, the authorities that effed up everything are saying “get vaccinated with this never-before-aporoved technology.” Fauci admitted to lying about herd immunity so that people would get vaccinated. Problem with lying for a good cause is that people won’t believe you when you are telling the truth.

    The same media that egged on the BLM riots and said that “lab leak theory” for covid origin was Trump’s conspiracy theory, when in reality, when a disease outbreak occurs hundreds of miles from the animal resevoir in the city with a lab dedicated to playing with viruses in that family, when it looks like it has a cleavage site inserted into the genome, lab leak should be the null hypothesis! That same media is telling them to get vaccinated.

    They know very little about viruses, the immune system, and vaccines. Little bio or biochem in general. Not that they should. No one can be an expert in everything. Like i said,the experts and authorities have not covered themselves in glory from November 2019to today. I doubt they’ll start doing a better job soon.

    But still, get vaccinated! It is not perfect. It’s just better than not getting vaccinated. You (and i) are going to get coronavirus. I don’t know when, but the genie is out of the bottle. Please get vaccinated. When people design vaccines, they try to minimize negative reactions! Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of efficacy.

    [MORE]

    If you want to know more, there are good virology and vaccinology textbooks on library genesis. There are probably open-source textbooks available.

    The current live-attenuated poliovirus vaccine is not fit for its purpose. Wild polio is nearly extinct. One of the viral serotypes (somewhat analogous to a “race” within the species) has a high rate of reversion to virulence. It reverts so readily that vaccine-derived polio infects people in various places. It is ripe for modern genetic engineering to create a much safer vaccine.

    I tend to think we err too heavily on side of caution and inertia with vaccines. Caution in that the most effective vaccines are live-attenuated, but they can revert, especially in people who are immunocompromised. With modern gene synthesis, there are vaccines on the horizon that are much less likely to revert. They may be so un-pathogenic that they can be “transmissible vaccines.” This applies to veterinary vaccines as well, so we might be able to eliminate or drastically reduce rabies in wild animals.

    Recoding viral genomes looks like a very promising strategy. The genetic code is degenerate. Codons are 3 bases long, and there are 4 bases, so 4^3 = 64 codons. There are 61 “sense” codons – they specify amino acid residues in protein. 3 “stop” codons terminate protein synthesis. But there are only 20 amino acids. For any protein, there are a bunch of ways it can be coded in the DNA/RNA. For an amino acid, there can be codons that are read quickly or slowly. The tRNA pool can be depleted of one species, slowing translation. Slower-growing viruses tend to be attenuated.

    There is also the matter of dinucleotide frequency some pairs, specifically UpA and CpG are less frequent than one would predict from base frequencies. They can both trigger cellular antiviral responses. Increasing the number of them, irrespective of codon frequency can attenuate a virus.

    So, genes can be recoded without changing the protein at all! Both methods are “death by a thousand cuts.” Each mutation impacts fitness just a little, but there can be hundreds of mutations from the original virus. Back mutation of all those changes would take a long time. A recoded virus has a much lower “virulence ceiling” than empirically attenuated viruses, which were grown in other organisms (frequently eggs) or cell cultures. In adapting to the new environment, they lost adaptations and were less virulent in humans (or animals for veterinary vaccines) but this was hit or miss.

    There was a guy way back when who thought that cowpox infection in people was mild and immunized them against smallpox. By analogy, he thought that bovine tuberculosis infection would protect people against human tuberculosis. I think it was Calmette, but could be wrong. He, and then another man, grew cow tuberculosis in a medium that was mostly potato starch. He’d grow a plate, and when it was full, he’d transfer a bit to a new plate. This is called passaging or subculturing. After doing this for a decade, over 100 passages, cow tuberculosis bacteria lost its virulence in humans. Today, it is known as Bacille Calmette-Guerin or BCG. It is not perfect protection against tuberculosis. In some places, like the Indian subcontinent, it is 0% protective against tuberculosis. There was a study of Pakistani kids born in Britain who were vaccinated with BCG. By correlates of protection tests, it would work against tuberculosis, so there is something about India, probably other bacteria, that interfere with it. BCG in India does protect against sepsis and improves all-cause mortality.

    Speaking of all-cause mortality, live-attenuated vaccines seem to make people healthier in general, called heterologous effects. BCG induces “trained immunity” of innate immune cells. BCG seems to improve blood sugar control, implying that the “hygiene hypothesis” is that some common modern ailments are exacerbated by lack of pathogen (or non-pathogenic) bacterial exposure.

    People don’t do a lot of live-attenuated bacteria for vaccines. We have antibiotics, but it seems to me that calculus is different in the third world. It is probably easier to get healthy kids (and adults) vaccines that can be given almost any time than to get very sick people antibiotics at a particular time. Probably modern biology can get around the serotype problem, which is that they are a ton of strep strains that do not induce protection against each other. That’s the problem with rhinovirus, too. There are probably ways around those problems.

    People had high hopes for DNA vaccines, but they do not work as well in people as in animals. It’d be nice to know why. They have a lot of potential. There’s also potential in DNA to mRNA vaccines created in situ. That way, heat-tolerant DNA and RNA precursors can be transported without temperature controls and RNA created on-site before injecting people. It could be much cheaper. Have to figure out how to create the lipid-RNA nanoparticles, so may be impossible. On the other hand, ATP (an RNA precursor) is a DAMP and might improve vaccine efficacy.

    There’s one group working on using DNA vaccines to code for live-attenuatec viruses. The not-fragile DNA is easily produced in bacteria (cheap) and is tough for transport. No negative 90° (or whatever) freezer required. Upon injection and entry to cell nuclei, the DNA is transcribed into the attenuated virus, which then acts like an attenuated virus delivered some other way.

    Personally, i’d like to see better delivery methods than needles. They are expensive. Something like the whole population of Egypt got some vaccine through one needle. High rate of hepatitis followed. Oral and intranasal delivery holds promise. That is how a lot of un-attenuated pathogens get inside you! Topical vaccines would be great. Can handle the serotype problem too. I don’t want a 100ml injection, but the same dose slathered on my back? Sign me up! There’s also the matter of non-injected routes causing secreted antibody, reducing spread.

    If you’ve read this far, then thank you. If you don’t get the mRNA or adenovirus-vectored vaccine, then when there is an attenuated or intranasal one, please get that! That’s established tech. The theory is so solid that it cannot be wrong. It’ll probably cause sterilizing immunity.

    Everyone working on vaccines is doing it because they like vaccines. It was not a field to get rich in. It did not draw ambitious, money-oriented people. They are not culture warriors. They are not trying to sterilize you or cause brain damage. Neither one will happen when you get vaccinated. You won’t get impotence. The vaccine will not make your vagina fall off. You won’t have a heart attack. They don’t even have a functional version of the spike protein.

    • Thanks: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @Peter Lund
  240. @Rob

    Can you recommend any good sources on immunology? I haven’t spent much time searching, but all I found was really basic books for med students and papers with atomized knowledge, most of which were hidden behind paywalls. I could really use some pointers…

    • Replies: @Rob
  241. Rob says:
    @Peter Lund

    Janeways immunobiology covers everything. The version i have clocks in at 928 pages. What kind of slant do you want? Do you want somethimg geared towards biochem or cell biology? Deep into proteim structure? Like, i kind of glaze over at “ddm3 phosporylates pkrb9β, which activates gghfIX and deactivates bbeg3 through proteolytic cleavage” Or is Janeway’s the “basic for med school” that you want to avoid? I have “fundamental immunology” by William Paul. It clocks in at 1600+ pages.

    “Vaccinology: An Essential Guide” Milligan and Barrettis more like history and how to, fda approval, clinical trials. Pretty good book though.

    “Introduction to Molecular Vaccinology” by Geise is a lightweight, not even 400 pages. Has a good overview of the immune system from the point of view of someone trying to manipulate it.

    For paywalled articles there’s a .se site that sounds like sky-pub where you can get almost anything published before 2021. For really old papers, like before 1970, it’s kind of hit or miss, but so are a lot of journals for really old stuff.

    For books there’s be oh kay, except the only vowel is an O and there’s a dash after the B. The domain is .cc

    B-ohkay limits you to 5 downloads a day, so i always give L”i8b/g*e3n;.L”c+, except the website is just the letters and the dot. I’m really sorry to put it like that, but i’ve heard that a certain publisher goes after websites and comment sections that have direct links to them. If my on the fly cover-up covered them up to you, i am really sorry.

    I hope this is some help. I’m not an expert. I don’t have a PhD, and I don’t work in the field.

    • Thanks: Peter Lund
    • Replies: @Peter Lund
  242. @Rob

    Whaddaya know, they all suddenly fell off a truck.

    The bokbok site looks scammy and I didn’t figure out how to search for books there but L”i8b/g*e3n;.L”c+ worked like a charm (except it also has epubs, ew). I knew about skyhub but I haven’t actually used it… I should probably change that. I’m so used to comp.sci. papers being either on arxiv or being very easy to google for so I’m kinda spoiled.

    What kind of slant do you want? Do you want somethimg geared towards biochem or cell biology? Deep into proteim structure?

    I don’t know! All I know is that I want real explanations and not something dumbed down for labradoodles. I browsed through all 4 you recommended and they all look good. I would love to see something with a control theoretical slant (*something* must determine how many memory B/T cells to keep around and for how long, for example), but biologists haven’t really heard about that subject yet, unfortunately. Also something about stochastic distributed computation (to explain all those signaling cascades). And something that connects the immune system to what we know about learning from the math/comp.sci. guys. I don’t expect to see that anytime soon, unfortunately.

    As far as I know, we still don’t really know how the body does the selective mutation trick for immune cells or even exactly which parts of the genome are mutated. It would be really nice to know, though.

    Anything you want to know about comp.sci.?

    (Get that PhD!)

    • Replies: @Rob
  243. Rob says:
    @Peter Lund

    Think you got to the wrong site its b- that dash is part of it, this is filler then: ok dot cc.

    I took a teensy bit of control theory, just enough to realize I have an anti-knack for it.

    Network and systems biology ate things these days. I’m sure someone has worked out a bunch of differential equations that govern memory cell formation. It must be a beast of a system, You know how engineers chose things that are discrete and tractable? Evolution badger doesn’t give a fuck!

    Here’s one attempt at figuring out antibody creation Directed attenuation to enhance vaccine immunity. It’s pretty new, so I don’t know if anyone has tried to test the model. But the promise of more attenuated and more immunogenic vaccines is worth investigating.

    I read a consultant’s model of pharma companies’ R&D payoff. He thought that the internal rate of return (cost of capital that would make a project exactly non-profitable) of pharma research would be negative in 2020. Well, 2020-21 has been a good year for pharma! He thought that pharma was going to evolve into biopharma, where their products are things like gene therapy, tissue engineering, and cell therapy.

    [MORE]

    There’s no cure for cancer, but cancer treatment has improved over the last decade. There was a recent paper where the researcher took the crystal structure of interleukin-2 bound to its receptor and mutated maybe 3 amino acids in IL-2 that contributed a lot to binding to get an IL-2 that didn’t bind the receptor. Then he randomized the contacting residues in the receptor, and used in vitro selection to get a receptor that did not interact with IL-2 but did bind the il-2 mutant. He then called them ortho-IL-2/IL2R. Then he added the receptor to chimeric antigen receptor T cells. Ended up with CAR T cells that don’t respond to IL-2, but do proliferate with oIL-2.

    If this translates to people, someone with cancer could get CAR T cells that can be regulated with oIL-2, so they can avoid some of the negative effects of stimulating all someone’s T cells with IL-2.

    If you think about it, that sort of thing opens up the possibility of giving people small, dedicated orthogonal immune systems, at least killer, regulatory, and helper T cells along with B cells to fight things that our natural immune system does not take on very well. Solid tumors tend to suppress immune cells within/near the tumor. The cellular receptors that get the inhibitory signals can be mutated into orthogonal ones so they can infiltrate and kill tumor cells, regulated by orthogonal ligands supplied either by infusion or orthogonal T cells.

    Like, maybe we don’t need to come up with an AIDS vaccine. We can create an anti-HIV “immune system kit” to have B cells producing multiple broadly neutralizing antibodies, HIV-proof helper T cells to stimulate them, and CAR killer T cells to kill any cell with HIV proteins on the surface. It could do all that without attracting the recipients’ HIV-vulnerable T cells.

    Expensive, you say? The government pays for the PREP drugs that keep gay men from catching HIV, a month of that treatment costs ~the average mortgage payment, A one-off prevention treatment looks reasonable when you think of how much we pay for HIV research, AIDS treatment, and prep.

    We could sequence people, figure out who is likely to get, say, rheumatoid arthritis, and give them CAR regulatory T cells for cartilage protein (or whatever triggers arthritis) That could give people decades of not being disabled.

    Maybe we can create a telomerase epitope quasi-unrestricted T cell to kill any cell producing telomerase. Some immune cells might do that, so would have to come up with a way not to kill them

    Of course, if we can just cure aging, we can save a butt-ton, First, we’d have to figure out what aging is, but even if we can just prevent the symptoms, we’d have something that’d greatly increase the quality of life of millions.

    Of course, we’d have to figure out a way to pay for all this. Maybe China will keep paying for our government because they’re really nice?

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