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Sheldon Adelson Asks Haim Saban to Help Him Acquire New York Times Co., Fight Episcopalian / Maronite Control of the Media
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From IsraelUSA.net:

Adelson and Saban

Sheldon Adelson Challenges Haim Saban to Team Up and Buy The New York Times

By: Joseph Gelman| Posted: November 9, 2014 6:30 PM

In a spirited public discussion between two of America’s richest men and largest political donors, at the IAC [Israeli American Council] conference in Washington DC, multi-billionaire Sheldon Adelson openly challenged his more left-leaning counterpart and friend, billionaire and media mogul Haim Saban, to jointly purchase the New York Times away from the Sulzberger family, because of the Times’ open hostility towards Israel.

The subject came up in a pubic discussion about media bias and Israel. Saban marveled at how Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos had purchased the Washington Post for a mere $250 million, which Saban called “bupkis,” and that he was sorry that he did not try to buy it himself.

Do you think Lebanese-Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim (net worth approaching $70 billion) regrets the $200 million he put up to financially rescue the New York Times Co. in 2008? He now owns 17% of the company’s stock.

Saban and his Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers

At that point Adelson pounced on Saban and challenged him on the spot to join with him to buy the New York Times from the Sulzberger family.

Saban expressed an openness to the idea, but was concerned that the Sulzberger family would not sell. Adelson dismissed that concern, “You pay significantly more than it’s worth, then the non-family shareholders have the right to bring a suit between the real value and what’s been offered.”

The issue they’re talking about is, I believe, that the New York Times Co. has both voting and nonvoting shares, with the Sulzberger family dominating ownership of the voting shares.

For the Sulzberger family’s interesting ethnic, religious, and ideological history, which included converting to Episcopalianism at one point, see here.

Adelson at Macau Sands casino

Adelson suggested that he and Saban team up and make them an offer that cannot be refused; “There’s only one way to buy it, money…. but it’s not going to be one of those deals where I put up 10 times more than you” Adelson said.

Saban expressed an interest… and then the panel moved on to other subjects.

Haim Saban and Sheldon Adelson together are worth well over 40 billion dollars and are more than financially capable of buying the troubled New York Times. The mere suggestion of such a move has put traditional liberal outlets like the Daily Beast into a virtual meltdown. Clearly, this discussion will continue in a more private setting. The discussion was dead serious in tone and was video taped in front of an audience over 700 people at the Washington Hilton today (Nov. 9) at around 12:00 noon.

 
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  1. I kind of wish the Chinese would start buying up media outlets in America.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "I kind of wish the Chinese would start buying up media outlets in America."

    Headlines will read like fortune cookies.
  2. The Lebanese-Mexican Carlos Slim has a stake. I wonder where he stands.

    • Replies: @Karl
    there's many flavors of Lebanese. Lots of Maronites live in Israel and their kids almost always voluntarily enlist in the IDF. We can expect to see a good fraction of the young people taking advantage of the new opportunity to list themselves as "Aramean" on their ID cards. The Maronites have been in the Levant since time immemorial; it is the Arabic language which is a recent arrival.
    , @George Taylor
    I'm guessing Carlos could care less, Sheldon and him are both open border advocates. Carlos for long distance phone calls and Sheldon needs a continued supply of cheap labor to clean that monstrosity casino of his in Las Vegas.
  3. Linking to the Daily Beast saying it’s having a “virtual meltdown”? Evidently not having any idea who Eli Lake is.

  4. Might as well get the ownership of the NYT into the news and get the public talking about it. Way too many people still think of it as some sort of public service.

    Oddly enough, as the advertising dollars have fallen, the blatant support of immigration, war, and other causes in the news section have increased. Impartial journalism can’t survive the free market any better than corporate research departments and good looking flight attendants. It’s back to yellow journalism all around. And that’s a good thing in some ways, since readers will become more skeptical and writers will need to explicitly take a stand.

  5. Wouldn’t that just force the NYT to compete more squarely with the Wall Street Journal? (I’m not implying anything about Rupert Murdoch’s background). Personally, I like the range of coverage in the NYT, but I frequently disagree with most of the columnists. Also, the reporting often isn’t as solid as it could be. For example, a recent report on the political landscape in Alaska where they described Senator Mark Begich as being the son of school teachers and omitted the fact that his father was a state representative in the 1970s and that he’s partly remembered today because the plane he was on disappeared.

    • Replies: @Scotty G. Vito
    There was a good NYT correction recently... The losing Iowa Senate candidate was quoted saying it's heavy to be 23 years old and "lose your phone" except he actually said "lose your father." ROFL
  6. If they bought the Times (and assuming they could keep most of the talent from defecting), it would be good for the Jews *and* good for America. Pretty much any owner other than the morally repulsive Sulzbergers would be an improvement.

    • Replies: @CJ
    That's probably true. Adelson in particular isn't interested in fighting the culture wars. However, there's no need for Slim to sell out. He can simply keep his shares and the paper can continue to avoid printing any information about Mexico and the immivasion across the southern border. It's unlikely Slim gives a damn about Israel one way or the other. All three can get what they want, and you'd have an NYT ownership group worth $110 billion.
  7. A peculiarly gratifying thing is reading often that The New York Times is “troubled.”

  8. the Times’ open hostility towards Israel

    When did I land in an alternate universe?

    • Replies: @schmenz
    No kidding. Considering how outrageously pro-Israel they are now I would think Adelson should save his money.
  9. The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    'The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me."

    I agree. It is a a bad thing. It should not be allowed. I believe it is forbidden in some countries.
    , @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.
  10. Pinch Sulzberger does try hard to exude an air of waspish ivy league refinement.

    Adelson and Saban buying the NYT would be like Al Czervik buying Bushwood Country Club.

    I can see the first Adelson/Saban NYT headline now.

    What’s Wrong With You Obama, You Big Shmushka? Nuke Tehran Now!

    • Replies: @map
    OMG...I almost spit out my coffee.

    That's the thread winner.
    , @Bugg
    Krugman, Dowd, Brooks and Friedman can be the new Power Rangers , expanding the brand of crappy kids TV to the elites.This is Mr. Saban's circus and you are the monkeys: put on these costumes now or get out!
  11. I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism. There were many more Jews with that attitude than people today think. I don’t know the extent to which this was true or if it changed with later generations. But it could explain Saban’s and Adelson’s interest in taking over the Times.

    “Impartial journalism can’t survive the free market any better than corporate research departments and good looking flight attendants. ”

    This is a fascinating comment, but I don’t quite get it, other than that all three have been disappearing. But arguably corporate research departments were done in by crony capitalism, not the free market. If the main determinant of the success of your business is government subsidized financing, navigating (or lobbying to create) government regulations, and maybe government contracts, how much do you really need to spend on research. And the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don’t get at all.

    • Replies: @Ed
    This is true, I read "The Trust" and it was mentioned prominently. I think part of the reason the Sulzbergers are indifferent towards Israel is that they descend from Sephardi.

    The first Sulzberger's mom comes from a family that I think was one of the Jews Stuyvesant let in. An ancestor fought for the Revolution and she was immensely proud of it even joining the Daughters of the Revoluion. She instilled in her sons a fierce patriotism. The other side of the Sulzberger clan descend from German Jews that arrived before the Civil War.

    Many settled in the South, owned slaves and were pro-Confederacy. I honestly don't believe the Sulzberger clan view Israel as anything more than another country.
    , @Noah172
    the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don’t get at all

    Anti-discrimination laws

    Union rules: can't fire a broad just cuz she's gaining weight or getting old

    Deregulation: once airlines could compete on price rather than amenities, no need to offer competitive pay for hot pieces of ass
    , @Priss Factor
    "I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism."

    http://youtu.be/dwEDgSECGiU

    Even if true, why should we care? What does Israel have to do with white survival?
  12. Adelson can start getting the NYT on the right track by firing Andrew Rosenthal and Adam Nagourney and replacing them with Jackie Mason and Andrew Dice Clay. They can still pack them in in Vegas.

  13. In the end, it’s not about ‘left’ vs ‘right’ but Jews over Gentiles.

  14. Worthless punk is wearing a Priss suit. Infamy!

  15. @Grumpy Old Man
    The Lebanese-Mexican Carlos Slim has a stake. I wonder where he stands.

    there’s many flavors of Lebanese. Lots of Maronites live in Israel and their kids almost always voluntarily enlist in the IDF. We can expect to see a good fraction of the young people taking advantage of the new opportunity to list themselves as “Aramean” on their ID cards. The Maronites have been in the Levant since time immemorial; it is the Arabic language which is a recent arrival.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    "Lots"? That's not true. A couple of dozen maybe.

    Most elite Jews before WWII, especially in the Anglo world, opposed Zionism. They thought it would lead to dual loyalty charges. Hm.....

    *****

    Drudge clickbait department. OT, but interesting:

    "http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/virus-that-makes-humans-more-stupid-discovered-9849920.html

    So viruses change behavior. Who'da thunk?
  16. @Gary Seven
    The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    ‘The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.”

    I agree. It is a a bad thing. It should not be allowed. I believe it is forbidden in some countries.

    • Replies: @interesting
    what about the members of congress that dual US/Israeli citizenship? that to me SCREAMS of conflict of interest, no?

    i just did a quick Google search and found this so don't attack me if the site isn't up to you standards.

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/175479365845092
  17. @Gary Seven
    The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn’t be independent if there had not been French (and other European “mahal-nikkim”) aid.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    They are dual passport members of the tribe and do whats good for Israel and have a strong dislike for the white goyim.

    Adleson is basically a Jewish political kingmaker who supports the demographic destruction of whites in American. He no friend of America. He's it's mortal enemy.

    Saban, is a Israeli citizen and pretty much a nut case Zionist.

    Having them run the NYT is merely a replay of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

    The good news is that no matter who owns it is gonna bleed money. Because the paper is dying along with most of the rest of the prestige print media. Blacks don't read, Mexicans don't read and Asians have their own papers. The young get their news off the internet. The people who do read news papers - older whites have written off these prestige papers, they find them useless and heavily slanted towards the Left.
    , @josh
    According to Google, you are the only person to ever use "mahal-nikkim". What does it mean?
    , @SFG
    Right about the French (part of the reason they had their revolution was they spent huge amounts of money helping us to be independent to screw over their arch-rival Britain), wrong about Episcopalianism; it's basically the American branch of the Anglican Church, which was pretty much what the founding Englishmen believed (apart from the Puritans and Quakers, of course), being the state church of England. So Episcopalianism is still the 'old money' denomination in much of the US and probably about as American as you can get.

    The only reason it has a different name is because right after they got rid of the king, didn't make much sense to keep being Church of England, now did it? The monarch is supreme head of the Church of England.

    , @syonredux

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.
     
    In name only; they practically define what Theodore Roosevelt was warning us about when he discussed the dangers of "hyphenated Americans."

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.
     
    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington's faith.It is part of America.
    , @Anonymous
    defensive and slow? referring to carlos.
    , @Difference Maker
    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn’t be independent if there had not been French (and other European “mahal-nikkim”) aid.


    Good work on the helpful examples of foreigners having undue influence on the country.
  18. From Haym Solomon to Haim Saban in just 240 years. What a slide.

  19. If they bought the Times (and assuming they could keep most of the talent from defecting), it would be good for the Jews *and* good for America. Pretty much any owner other than the morally repulsive Sulzbergers would be an improvement.

    Wouldn’t Adelson still be pushing open borders for the US though?

  20. There *IS* a somewhat small but real market for impartial journalism — business reporting. When it covers merely business, the FT has been pretty good, far better than the pitiful state the WSJ-Open Borders Journal has become in business. If you want to read about the latest breathless pap emanating from Silicon Valley, Google will own everything! Eleventy!11!!!! and things like that, the WSJ is your paper. Otherwise, the FT and Business Insider have you covered for real business news.

    Which is often revealing. About 85% of Apple Juice Concentrate for example used in American Apple Juice comes from … CHINA. And guess what, its often contaminated with all sorts of things. There was an effort to create a few years ago an Apple Juice (frozen concentrate) futures market like the one in Orange Juice and it did not come to pass. Learned that tidbit in the FT.

    The NYT is dying, like most newspapers. The Orange County Register was sold to a liberal investor, who expanded like crazy into Long Beach, LA, and now owes the LAT about $2 for delivery they could not pay. Creditors are suing to get the company to declare formal bankruptcy saying that the main creditor in effect runs the company — to their detriment as other creditors.

    Liberalism is EVERYWHERE, it is the cultural Muzak and you can’t get people to pay much for it anymore. I only subscribe to the LAT for the sports and TV listings, and the business section which will have local stuff of interest. I literally don’t read the Front Page or “California” section.

    No one seriously makes a play for a major property in public. If Adelson was serious, he would have talked in private to make an above market offer that was too good to pass up for the Sulzbergers, who are living on borrowed time.

    Lets put it this way — the NYT sold its HQ building, and leased it back. The classic indicator of a failing company running out of cash rapidly. The awful Nick Denton, and Gawker, or Buzzfeed, or Huffington Post, or what have you can give the same liberal cocooning snark pap, for free. Meanwhile consumers are strapped. Dish Network lost 12,000 customers … last month. Time-Warner Cable shed something like 180,000 last quarter. Particularly under financial pressure, people will substitute free and lesser quality for expensive and “higher” quality.

    Liberal media’s future is Gawker running articles on how awful White guys are and the latest celebrity diet and/or hookup.

  21. OT, but Peter Frost has an interesting article on proto-Europeans:

    https://www.unz.com/pfrost/a-look-at-an-early-european/

  22. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Pinch Sulzberger does try hard to exude an air of waspish ivy league refinement.

    Adelson and Saban buying the NYT would be like Al Czervik buying Bushwood Country Club.

    I can see the first Adelson/Saban NYT headline now.

    What's Wrong With You Obama, You Big Shmushka? Nuke Tehran Now!

    OMG…I almost spit out my coffee.

    That’s the thread winner.

  23. To be fair, the Sulzbergers are Presbyterians.

  24. Isn’t Jaime Sabante already an established figure in the Spanish-language media biz? Forget Adelson, he could just trade some Univision ad time to Carlos for his stake

  25. @IBC
    Wouldn't that just force the NYT to compete more squarely with the Wall Street Journal? (I'm not implying anything about Rupert Murdoch's background). Personally, I like the range of coverage in the NYT, but I frequently disagree with most of the columnists. Also, the reporting often isn't as solid as it could be. For example, a recent report on the political landscape in Alaska where they described Senator Mark Begich as being the son of school teachers and omitted the fact that his father was a state representative in the 1970s and that he's partly remembered today because the plane he was on disappeared.

    There was a good NYT correction recently… The losing Iowa Senate candidate was quoted saying it’s heavy to be 23 years old and “lose your phone” except he actually said “lose your father.” ROFL

  26. “Eliezer Ben-Yehuda says:

    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.”

    Being an “American citizen” doesn’t mean anything anymore. Clearly, it doesn’t mean anything to people like Adelson and Saban.

    I have always thought of Jews as urbane, cultured, and sophisticated: Gustav Mahler, Sigmund Freud, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein. They were always people who were smarter, better educated, and wider read than most gentiles. I know that they were all the descendents of western European Jews, but still, that was always my impression of them. Do Jews have the equivalent concept of “white trash” among their own people? The likes of Adelson and Saban seem like crude caricatures from the Stetl. Aren’t there at least a few Jews who are embarrassed by crass vulgarians such as them?

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Read Our Crowd for a description of Jewish life and characteristics in a prior era. One theme deals with older, established German Jews relative to 'newcomers'. Variations on that theme follow other immigrant groups.

    http://www.amazon.com/Our-Crowd-Jewish-Families-History/dp/0815604114
    , @Anonymous
    Haim Saban's is an Egyptian Jew, not an Ashkenazi from the shtetl. Aaron Copland's ancestors were Lithuanian Jews, and Leonard Bernstein's ancestors were Ukrainian Jews. All of them were likely to have lived in shtetlach. Many cultured, educated American Jews have Eastern European Jewish antecedents.
  27. “Eliezer Ben-Yehuda says:

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.”

    Yeah, imported by MY people who founded MY nation.

    “America wouldn’t be independent if there had not been French (and other European “mahal-nikkim”) aid.”

    Thanks for explaining MY history to me. What would we do without you guys to tell us what to think about our own past? By the way – those French dudes who helped us – frog-eaters all-of-em’ – not very kosher.

  28. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    They are dual passport members of the tribe and do whats good for Israel and have a strong dislike for the white goyim.

    Adleson is basically a Jewish political kingmaker who supports the demographic destruction of whites in American. He no friend of America. He’s it’s mortal enemy.

    Saban, is a Israeli citizen and pretty much a nut case Zionist.

    Having them run the NYT is merely a replay of “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

    The good news is that no matter who owns it is gonna bleed money. Because the paper is dying along with most of the rest of the prestige print media. Blacks don’t read, Mexicans don’t read and Asians have their own papers. The young get their news off the internet. The people who do read news papers – older whites have written off these prestige papers, they find them useless and heavily slanted towards the Left.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Mexicans don’t read
     
    Yeah, they do. Comic books. As much as the Japanese.
  29. @International Jew
    If they bought the Times (and assuming they could keep most of the talent from defecting), it would be good for the Jews *and* good for America. Pretty much any owner other than the morally repulsive Sulzbergers would be an improvement.

    That’s probably true. Adelson in particular isn’t interested in fighting the culture wars. However, there’s no need for Slim to sell out. He can simply keep his shares and the paper can continue to avoid printing any information about Mexico and the immivasion across the southern border. It’s unlikely Slim gives a damn about Israel one way or the other. All three can get what they want, and you’d have an NYT ownership group worth $110 billion.

  30. Jeff Bezos acquired the Washington Post very quietly so was able to buy it at 250 million. He bought it in August 2013. The stock market is frothier since then. The economy is perkier. If Adelson and Saban buy the NYT they will have to pay between one and two billion. At least it would revert back to a better class of Jews. The alleged Jews who own it now are disgusting liberals with semi-Jewish parentage at best. iSteve readers who think the NYT is pro-Israel are mistaken. Pro-gay, pro-illegals, yes. Pro Israel, no.

    • Replies: @Noah172
    At least it would revert back to a better class of Jews. The alleged Jews who own it now are disgusting liberals with semi-Jewish parentage at best

    Adelson and Saban are leftist on US domestic politics more or less like the Sulzbergers (except that Adelson hates organized labor, and wants lower taxes on plutocrats).
  31. Hotair has a post link on how Salon is running a piece, in time for Veteran’s Day, saying the Military Does Not Protect My Freedom, White men evil, heteronormative, etc..

    Basically an anti-White guy screed from some Salon writer about how millions of dead pregnant women are killed every second by (White) cops, how the Military is an epidemic of rape and massacres, see:
    ——————
    Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” The rhetorical sloppiness and intellectual shallowness of affixing such a reverent label to everyone in the military or law enforcement betrays a frightening cultural streak of nationalism, chauvinism, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, but it also makes honest and serious conversations necessary for the maintenance and enhancement of a fragile democracy nearly impossible.
    ——————

    THAT is the future of Journalism. It is red meat to the NYT readers, in a tabloid form they can’t resist. The secret to the NYT fall is that the elite are even MORE tacky than the kind of person who has a velvet oil painting of Elvis in their living room, or the person who reads People for the “interesting articles.” The NYT offers the same thing, but in watered down, half-hearted, “respectable” format when what their readers want is that stuff, above. And you can get Salon for free.

    About 90% of journalism these days is nothing but the hate hate hate for White guys. So there you go; Salon has that in full alcohol content glory and the NYT the same stuff in near-beer non-alcoholic format.

    • Replies: @YIH
    When I saw this I pressed ctrl-f, then typed ''whis'' (didn't even have to finish the word) and look what appeared!
    Good to see you doing your duty here as well as over at http://voxday.blogspot.com when a certain subject about a certain people comes up.
    Continue with what he noted: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/07/how-do-you-say-taqqiya-in-hebrew.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara
    ''Abe Foxman, reacted similarly, saying he was "not distressed or disturbed", and noted that disseminating hasbara has always been the responsibility of every Foreign Ministry staff officer, especially those working abroad''
  32. It doesn’t matter which billionaire owns the Times. In any case it will push open borders, interventionist foreign policy, and social liberalism. The only thing that will change is whether the foreign policy is Cruise-Missile Liberal or Neoconservative.

    Adelson might as well buy the Times. Maybe his crass behavior will alienate enough liberal Times readers that they’ll actually drop their subscriptions.

  33. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    According to Google, you are the only person to ever use “mahal-nikkim”. What does it mean?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    "According to Google, you are the only person to ever use “mahal-nikkim”. What does it mean?"

    Wow, that was obscure; you may well go through the rest of your life before you ever hear that again, but FWIW, there's a Wikipedia article on it: look up "Mahal".
  34. @Ed
    I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism. There were many more Jews with that attitude than people today think. I don't know the extent to which this was true or if it changed with later generations. But it could explain Saban's and Adelson's interest in taking over the Times.

    "Impartial journalism can’t survive the free market any better than corporate research departments and good looking flight attendants. "

    This is a fascinating comment, but I don't quite get it, other than that all three have been disappearing. But arguably corporate research departments were done in by crony capitalism, not the free market. If the main determinant of the success of your business is government subsidized financing, navigating (or lobbying to create) government regulations, and maybe government contracts, how much do you really need to spend on research. And the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don't get at all.

    This is true, I read “The Trust” and it was mentioned prominently. I think part of the reason the Sulzbergers are indifferent towards Israel is that they descend from Sephardi.

    The first Sulzberger’s mom comes from a family that I think was one of the Jews Stuyvesant let in. An ancestor fought for the Revolution and she was immensely proud of it even joining the Daughters of the Revoluion. She instilled in her sons a fierce patriotism. The other side of the Sulzberger clan descend from German Jews that arrived before the Civil War.

    Many settled in the South, owned slaves and were pro-Confederacy. I honestly don’t believe the Sulzberger clan view Israel as anything more than another country.

    • Replies: @Mark Green
    The TIMES is not indifferent or neutral to Israel or to anything 'of concern' to the Jewish community. It is still drenched with pro-Jewish journalism. The Times may sometimes be critical of Israel but this is a strategy to retain its shrinking credibility and readership.

    The kosher discussion and controlled conversation about Israel or The Holocaust or Anti-Semitism or Terrorism or Nazism any number Jewish-dominated issues and concepts are constantly in the NY Times and framed accordingly. It never ends. The Times is not as ardently pro-Zionist as some Jewish fanatics desire, but that's all. But this is a strategic necessity. The Times is still anti-white, pro-black and brown, pro-military-intervention, and pro-immigration into the US. The TIMES' ceaseless efforts to transform America and shore up a Jews Only Israel are still working.

    The paper's editors and writers are overwhelmingly Jewish and I don't recall reading that the Times supports BDS or a One State solution to the never-ending Israel/Palestine disaster.

    But we're supposed to believe that the Schulzbergers are only 'Synagogue Jews' and that they don't believe that the Jews are 'special' or chosen? Ha! Their entire family line is all Jewish. Is this just a coincidence? The Times is hopelessly 'liberal and pro-Zionist and never changing on those subjects.
  35. Traditionally, there’s a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don’t hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn’t allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What’s been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn’t a WASP country club — great-grandpa didn’t want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk — it was a German Jewish country club he couldn’t get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton’s home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Traditionally, there’s a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured.
     
    Excellent point, Steve; people tend to forget (or are encouraged to forget) that terms like "Kike" and "mockie/mocky*" were originally used by German Jews to put down their quasi-Asiatic brethren.Some other related points that spring to mind:

    Counter-Discrimination: When German-Jewish immigrants started coming into New York from Hitler's Germany in the 1930s, many of then complained about receiving nasty treatment from the Russian-Ukrainian Jews. Apparently, many of the Eastern Jews relished the thought at being able to get back at poorer versions of the long established German-Jews who looked down on them.

    Kissinger: People like Norman Podhoretz used to complain behind the scenes that Kissinger was not "reliable" on the question of Jews in the USSR. They felt that he, being a German Jew, would look on them as uncultured rabble.

    * My German speaking, Latvian Jewish grandfather used to use Mockie whenever he would run across a particularly vulgar display from the "Ostjuden." Use of Yiddish would nearly always earn the epithet. To him, a speaker of Hochdeutsch, it was an uncouth dialect, fit only for the kitchen, not for civilized discourse.
    , @IBC

    Traditionally, there’s a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured.
     
    I think H. L. Mencken (who as you probably know wasn't Jewish) is on the record as praising German Jews while simultaneously criticizing those from Eastern Europe. He was probably reacting to the swelling volume of Russian Jewish immigration at the time, but his enthusiasm and identification with German intellectual culture might have been a factor as well.

    You're right that German Jews tended to be better off than later immigrants from the Russian Empire, but I think there were still quite a few who were of modest means but who nevertheless had an advantage because they spoke German rather than Yiddish and because they had been less isolated from the mainstream back home in the German states or in the Habsburg Empire. Joseph Pullitzer would be one example. He found success in heavily-German St. Louis and even married a woman who was supposedly related to Jefferson Davis!
    , @International Jew
    "Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The "German" Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed -- and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end -- it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you're a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.
    , @Anon
    Traditionally, the Sephardic Jews who could trace their descent from Spain (think Cardozo) and Middle European German speaking Jews and their descendants were the absolute Jewish elite. The Eastern Jews, the ones from Russia and Poland, were considered lower class by the Germans and Sephardi, whatever their accomplishments but this was never blamed on any Gentiles, at least not in my family. It was blamed on the German Jews who were considered intermarried snobs. True Sephardic Jews got a pass - they were held in awe somewhat, a true nobility. A great deal of effort was expended by the children of immigrant Eastern Jews to surpass the accomplishments of the German Jews and rub their faces in it a bit.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In Thomas Sowell's Ethnic America chapter on Jews, he makes the point that uptown Jews (German Jews) resented the downtown newcomers (Russian/Polish Jews) and that the derogatory slurs ... originated from German Jews toward Russian/Polish Jews, and not from WASPS. That would actually make sense since WASPS really didn't have contact at all with downtown Jews (initially) and hardly palled around with uptown German Jews to begin with.
    , @WhatEvvs
    Honestly, where DO you get this stuff from?

    Your ass? " consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn’t allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. "

    This is a good example of how great you are at writing blog posts, but you'd never last 5 minutes in the real world, where people require actual evidence. If you can cite a source from a history of Jews written by a Jew that implies such, I'd appreciate it. I read a few Jewish history books (Salo Baron, Norman Cantor, if you want to know the names) and they were always very blunt about intra-Jewish hostilities, no gentile-bashing.

    Please give us the names of the families where these stories predominate. It sure didn't happen in mine.

    It's basically Kevin MacDonald for blog readers.
    , @granesperanzablanco
    Interestingly, this is the explanation for why we have no good Jewish delis in San Francisco. Our Jews came early from Germany and were highly assimilated. California was wide open. The German Jews then actively worked to keep out Eastern European Jews and their pickle carts.
  36. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    Right about the French (part of the reason they had their revolution was they spent huge amounts of money helping us to be independent to screw over their arch-rival Britain), wrong about Episcopalianism; it’s basically the American branch of the Anglican Church, which was pretty much what the founding Englishmen believed (apart from the Puritans and Quakers, of course), being the state church of England. So Episcopalianism is still the ‘old money’ denomination in much of the US and probably about as American as you can get.

    The only reason it has a different name is because right after they got rid of the king, didn’t make much sense to keep being Church of England, now did it? The monarch is supreme head of the Church of England.

  37. Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change…

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today.
     
    Low churches always have been the left side of the Christian spectrum. Canterbury is to the right, and the hard right is Rome and Constantinople. (Whether Unitarianism is, strictly speaking, Christian is another argument entirely.)

    I think you mean "left side of the political spectrum".

    , @IBC

    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change…
     
    I think the Presbyterians were similar in some ways but that they have a different origin starting in Scotland. You're right about the other denominations except for the omission of the Congregationalists. They're probably the most direct descendants of the Puritan mainstream. You could even make a case for the Christian Scientists as distant descendants and maybe even the Spiritualists. As you probably know, Unitarians have the reputation of being the most lefty-liberal these days. They still seem to have some influence in places like Boston. Also, Methodism, the most popular mainstream Protestant denomination in the US, was an 18th century offshoot of the Church of England, i.e. Anglican Church.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Nah, no, the Puritans became the Church of Christ, which if you've ever watched Duck Dynasty, is very conservative leaning, actually. The United Church of Christ is an aberrant version of Church of Christ and is actually on its way to cult status. Bottom line: The Church of Christ many if not most of its congregations are actually quite conservative.

    Also from the Puritans were the Congregationalists which technically still survive today and are not liberal at all.

    Presbyterian USA is US's second largest Presbyterian church, is reformed in theology and conservative.
  38. So if I mention that jews run the media and want to control the minds of people, then it is just another anti-semitic canard. One is supposed to simply ignore all the evidence, even when it is slapping you in face.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    One is supposed to simply ignore all the evidence, even when it is slapping you in face.
     
    Yes.
  39. I can see some Jews not being crazy about Israel. First of all, Diaspora Jews despise settled Jews. Living among gentiles has become second-nature for the majority of Jews. Diaspora Jews in their view, are the real Jews, while only failed and dumb Jews would stoop so low as to actually build their own country. Working the land, doing menial trades is despicable for them.
    The second reason is that Israel is bad PR for Jews worldwide. There Jews aren’t victims, as they like to portray themselves, on the contrary Israeli Jews run an apartheid state with an iron fist. It’s bad for business. All for the sake of their loser third cousins. After all, Israel is a lousy country in a bad neighbourhood. Just leave, you morons! Even Canada is nicer. Only the weather is nice in Israel.
    Three, smarter Jews can sense a losing business venture. Israel was doomed from its inception. A bad idea. Get your money elsewhere, Schlomo! Sooner or later you’ll be overrun by the filty Arabs and whatnot that trickle down from Africa.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    It would be interesting to see if most of modern Israel's Jewish population is either Sephardic or Ashkenazi. Note: I didn't say the original founders or the leaders. I said the majority of the Jewish population.

    Because most US and European Jews are Ashkenazi. Actually, worldwide the Ashkenazi far outnumber the Sephardic in total numbers but since Spain and Portugal are somewhat close to the Middle East distance wise, wonder if the nation's population totals aren't evenly distributed unlike say, in the US, where most Jews are Ashkenazi.

  40. @SFG
    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change...

    Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today.

    Low churches always have been the left side of the Christian spectrum. Canterbury is to the right, and the hard right is Rome and Constantinople. (Whether Unitarianism is, strictly speaking, Christian is another argument entirely.)

    I think you mean “left side of the political spectrum”.

  41. Well so far, if Bezos has made any changes at the WaPo they aren’t in the editorial stance of the paper. Its still a Dan Balz, Dana Milbank publication. There was apoplexy at the LA Times when the Koch Brothers were rumored to be considering a bid for it with the unions in particular vowing to destroy it in order to save it. I presume something similar would happen at the NYT were Adelson and Saban to actually make a bid for the paper.

    Ironically the Reverend Moon arguably lost more money putting out the Washington Times than Bezos paid for the Washington Post. One could only imagine the shock in Washington if , instead of the Washington Times appearing on the news stands in the early 80’s, Wes Pruden was suddenly the managing editor and guys like Richard Grenier, Arnaud de Borchgrave and Joe Sobran were the featured columnists at the Post! If Adelson and Saban were to do something like that at the NYT it would be well worth it. Many liberals would, for the first time in their lives, be exposed to a different opinion.

  42. @rod1963
    They are dual passport members of the tribe and do whats good for Israel and have a strong dislike for the white goyim.

    Adleson is basically a Jewish political kingmaker who supports the demographic destruction of whites in American. He no friend of America. He's it's mortal enemy.

    Saban, is a Israeli citizen and pretty much a nut case Zionist.

    Having them run the NYT is merely a replay of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

    The good news is that no matter who owns it is gonna bleed money. Because the paper is dying along with most of the rest of the prestige print media. Blacks don't read, Mexicans don't read and Asians have their own papers. The young get their news off the internet. The people who do read news papers - older whites have written off these prestige papers, they find them useless and heavily slanted towards the Left.

    Mexicans don’t read

    Yeah, they do. Comic books. As much as the Japanese.

  43. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    In name only; they practically define what Theodore Roosevelt was warning us about when he discussed the dangers of “hyphenated Americans.”

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington’s faith.It is part of America.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington’s faith.It is part of America.

    Indeed. It was the American nation at prayer. More importantly, it was the American national elite at prayer. And when the elite decided to turn left and head over the cliff, the Episcopal Church decided it liked respectability over orthodoxy and followed them.

    The American Episcopal Church, and the Anglican Church, represent two great shipwrecks in the history of Western institutions. And before it's all over, the Catholic Church will follow its Central-South American/Filipino center-of-gravity and depart the traditional West as well.

    It's like watching Rome fall.
    , @Karl
    >> The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America

    America was settled 9000 years before 1607.





    >>> "Jewish trailer trash?"

    that's an ערס "ars" (plural Ars'eem).

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRVjfKOeIxU




    "Joe Sixpack" types would be would be סחים sakh'eem

    where "kh" is the gutteral.

    Saban knows those words. Adelson's wife does; she grew up in Haifa.
  44. If they bought the Times (and assuming they could keep most of the talent from defecting). . .

    I think Adelson would handle the talent the same way he suggests handling the Sulzbergers: “You pay the employees significantly more than they’re worth, then their wives will point out to them the difference between their real value and what’s been offered.”

    Anyway, where is the alternate employer to which this talent would defect?

    Also, what does Adelson have to rope Saban into the deal? Can’t he just buy it himself if he’s so interested?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Saban is very Democratic, a giant Hillary booster, so an Adelson-Saban consortium would be bipartisan. Adelson would never be allowed to buy the NYT because he's Republican, but Saban is a Democrat. The problem is that Saban isn't that rich -- his net worth is $3.4 billion so this would be a significant chunk of change for him, while Adelson is, at least at the moment, much richer. It's a tricky prospect.
  45. @Harry Baldwin
    If they bought the Times (and assuming they could keep most of the talent from defecting). . .

    I think Adelson would handle the talent the same way he suggests handling the Sulzbergers: “You pay the employees significantly more than they're worth, then their wives will point out to them the difference between their real value and what’s been offered.”

    Anyway, where is the alternate employer to which this talent would defect?

    Also, what does Adelson have to rope Saban into the deal? Can't he just buy it himself if he's so interested?

    Saban is very Democratic, a giant Hillary booster, so an Adelson-Saban consortium would be bipartisan. Adelson would never be allowed to buy the NYT because he’s Republican, but Saban is a Democrat. The problem is that Saban isn’t that rich — his net worth is $3.4 billion so this would be a significant chunk of change for him, while Adelson is, at least at the moment, much richer. It’s a tricky prospect.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Saban is very Democratic
     
    Ok, Saban is a Marty Peretz style rabid Jabotinzky Zionist who is a pro Open Borders, pro gay marriage, pro Common Core and pro Obamacare Hillary backing Democrat

    While Adelson is a Norman Podhoretz("WW IV") NeoCon's NeoCon, who is also pro Open Borders, pro gay marriage, pro Obamacare(Lets Socialize the costs of cheap labor), pro Common Core, Jeb Bush backing Republican.

    Ok, you are right, "Two Jews, Three Arguments" can't see what these two fellas could have in common.

    Oh Yeah, NUKE IRAN!!!!

  46. @syonredux

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.
     
    In name only; they practically define what Theodore Roosevelt was warning us about when he discussed the dangers of "hyphenated Americans."

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.
     
    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington's faith.It is part of America.

    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington’s faith.It is part of America.

    Indeed. It was the American nation at prayer. More importantly, it was the American national elite at prayer. And when the elite decided to turn left and head over the cliff, the Episcopal Church decided it liked respectability over orthodoxy and followed them.

    The American Episcopal Church, and the Anglican Church, represent two great shipwrecks in the history of Western institutions. And before it’s all over, the Catholic Church will follow its Central-South American/Filipino center-of-gravity and depart the traditional West as well.

    It’s like watching Rome fall.

  47. @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    Traditionally, there’s a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured.

    Excellent point, Steve; people tend to forget (or are encouraged to forget) that terms like “Kike” and “mockie/mocky*” were originally used by German Jews to put down their quasi-Asiatic brethren.Some other related points that spring to mind:

    Counter-Discrimination: When German-Jewish immigrants started coming into New York from Hitler’s Germany in the 1930s, many of then complained about receiving nasty treatment from the Russian-Ukrainian Jews. Apparently, many of the Eastern Jews relished the thought at being able to get back at poorer versions of the long established German-Jews who looked down on them.

    Kissinger: People like Norman Podhoretz used to complain behind the scenes that Kissinger was not “reliable” on the question of Jews in the USSR. They felt that he, being a German Jew, would look on them as uncultured rabble.

    * My German speaking, Latvian Jewish grandfather used to use Mockie whenever he would run across a particularly vulgar display from the “Ostjuden.” Use of Yiddish would nearly always earn the epithet. To him, a speaker of Hochdeutsch, it was an uncouth dialect, fit only for the kitchen, not for civilized discourse.

  48. I guess I’ll have to step in again to reduce this panic with my 100% accurate predictions (See also Pollard, Ebola, etc).

    This will never happen.

    But I’m surprised that people living (I think) in this century care who owns newspapers. I haven’t read the NYT on paper in decades, and only read parts online when a posting links.

    I suspect that people younger than me don’t even do that.

    Commenters here are really showing their age (and obsessions).

    • Replies: @Ed
    Sorry it matters who is buying the premier newspaper in the land. It's not a question of how many read the NY Times but who reads the NY Times.

    Also it matters because the explicit reason for these two to buy the paper is to manipulate foreign policy by using the media.

    I'm 37 BTW.

  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    (Haaretz 11/9/14) Sheldon Adelson: Palestinians are made-up nation that exists only to destroy Israel

    Obviously the future NYT will not be so sly about its support for Israel as it was in the past (e.g., Judith Miller’s above the fold pieces with anonymous sources supporting the attack on Iraq and trying to instigate an attack on Syria).

  50. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What would be the reason for buying it? Is it believed that it could be turned around and become a money-maker for them? Or would it be to turn it into a major propaganda megaphone for what interests Adelson-Saban? If the latter then we can expect to see stories on how the Iranians are coming to get us, how badly they treat women and gays and therefore how we urgently need to launch an attack upon them now. Yup, let’s reinstitute the draft and embark upon a thirty year war that’ll probably end in stalemate and bankruptcy.

  51. @Whiskey
    Hotair has a post link on how Salon is running a piece, in time for Veteran's Day, saying the Military Does Not Protect My Freedom, White men evil, heteronormative, etc..

    Basically an anti-White guy screed from some Salon writer about how millions of dead pregnant women are killed every second by (White) cops, how the Military is an epidemic of rape and massacres, see:
    ------------------
    Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” The rhetorical sloppiness and intellectual shallowness of affixing such a reverent label to everyone in the military or law enforcement betrays a frightening cultural streak of nationalism, chauvinism, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, but it also makes honest and serious conversations necessary for the maintenance and enhancement of a fragile democracy nearly impossible.
    ------------------

    THAT is the future of Journalism. It is red meat to the NYT readers, in a tabloid form they can't resist. The secret to the NYT fall is that the elite are even MORE tacky than the kind of person who has a velvet oil painting of Elvis in their living room, or the person who reads People for the "interesting articles." The NYT offers the same thing, but in watered down, half-hearted, "respectable" format when what their readers want is that stuff, above. And you can get Salon for free.

    About 90% of journalism these days is nothing but the hate hate hate for White guys. So there you go; Salon has that in full alcohol content glory and the NYT the same stuff in near-beer non-alcoholic format.

    When I saw this I pressed ctrl-f, then typed ”whis” (didn’t even have to finish the word) and look what appeared!
    Good to see you doing your duty here as well as over at http://voxday.blogspot.com when a certain subject about a certain people comes up.
    Continue with what he noted: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/07/how-do-you-say-taqqiya-in-hebrew.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara
    ”Abe Foxman, reacted similarly, saying he was “not distressed or disturbed”, and noted that disseminating hasbara has always been the responsibility of every Foreign Ministry staff officer, especially those working abroad”

  52. Dahlia says:

    Adelson is the type of Jew that Steve is always saying we want on our side.

    He was the sole major funder for the anti-medical marijuana side here in Florida this last election*.
    I went through a half dozen articles searching for what his interest was and almost as many conspiracy theories. Or the authors copped to being flummoxed.
    After giving up, I stumbled across it in one of the first tier publications: he lost a child to drug overdose in 2005.

    *Florida readers: y’all must read Roger Stone’s exposé on Amendement 2 and our ol’ favorite, Mr. Morgan-and-Morgan-for-the-people. I *did* find the sign wavers employed poorly chosen for persuading a yes vote and said so to friends. And that viral video: why was his audience young, unreliable voters when he needed to go after the large vote kitty of the Boomers, I wondered. Slate explored it more, too.
    For extra entertainment, see Stone’s twitter feed when 2 died, Lololloll!

  53. @Karl
    there's many flavors of Lebanese. Lots of Maronites live in Israel and their kids almost always voluntarily enlist in the IDF. We can expect to see a good fraction of the young people taking advantage of the new opportunity to list themselves as "Aramean" on their ID cards. The Maronites have been in the Levant since time immemorial; it is the Arabic language which is a recent arrival.

    “Lots”? That’s not true. A couple of dozen maybe.

    Most elite Jews before WWII, especially in the Anglo world, opposed Zionism. They thought it would lead to dual loyalty charges. Hm…..

    *****

    Drudge clickbait department. OT, but interesting:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/virus-that-makes-humans-more-stupid-discovered-9849920.html

    So viruses change behavior. Who’da thunk?

  54. @anony-mouse
    I guess I'll have to step in again to reduce this panic with my 100% accurate predictions (See also Pollard, Ebola, etc).

    This will never happen.

    But I'm surprised that people living (I think) in this century care who owns newspapers. I haven't read the NYT on paper in decades, and only read parts online when a posting links.

    I suspect that people younger than me don't even do that.

    Commenters here are really showing their age (and obsessions).

    Sorry it matters who is buying the premier newspaper in the land. It’s not a question of how many read the NY Times but who reads the NY Times.

    Also it matters because the explicit reason for these two to buy the paper is to manipulate foreign policy by using the media.

    I’m 37 BTW.

  55. But I’m surprised that people living (I think) in this century care who owns newspapers. I haven’t read the NYT on paper in decades, and only read parts online when a posting links.

    The NY Times largely defines what constitutes news, whether you read it or not. Most Americans still get their news from the MSM, and the MSM follows the lead of the NY Times. Thus, Mexico is mostly off the radar screen while Israel is front and center. The Duke lacrosse-team rape hoax was a major story largely because the NYT gave it so much attention.

  56. “anony-mouse says: …

    “But I’m surprised that people living (I think) in this century care who owns newspapers. I haven’t read the NYT on paper in decades, and only read parts online when a posting links.

    Commenters here are really showing their age (and obsessions).”

    I’m not surprised that you don’t care, at least in this case, for any number of reasons. In any event, a lot of young people don’t think much and aren’t very bright. They seem to think that the world begins and ends at the display of their phone. A lot of people say that they “get their news from the internet” – that usually means they read agregators who link to stories from traditional news outlets – outlets like the New York Times. The Post, the Times, and other “prestige” press institutions still set the tone for local papers in po-dunk towns around the country. It matters who owns them.

  57. “Whiskey says:

    Hotair has a post link on how Salon is running a piece, in time for Veteran’s Day, saying the Military Does Not Protect My Freedom, White men evil, heteronormative, etc..

    Basically an anti-White guy screed from some Salon writer about how millions of dead pregnant women are killed every second by (White) cops, how the Military is an epidemic of rape and massacres, see:
    ——————
    “”Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” “”

    I’m no fan of Salon, but what that guy wrote is essentially right. This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn’t protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    • Replies: @fnn
    This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn’t protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    Worship of soldiers is something that began with World War II, receded dramatically after Vietnam. revived with the Gulf War and later greatly reinforced with the GWOT. Cops weren't very popular until the 1970's crime wave and the roughly concurrent institutionalization of permanent racial polarization. IIRC, I think it was in the same period when it seemed like all the TV westerns were replaced by cop shows.
    , @Jean Cocteausten
    “”Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” “”

    Mr. Anon: I’m no fan of Salon, but what that guy wrote is essentially right. This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn’t protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    ----

    There are three different things going on here.

    1. Use of the word "hero" for someone who hasn't actually done anything, and in the worst case, for someone who is actually a victim

    2. Excessive displays of patriotism and fawning over soldiers and police

    3. Unquestioning acceptance that everything the military does or is ordered to do must be right.

    1 is annoying but a side-effect of our feminized culture, 2 is also annoying but probably harmless except as it contributes to 3, which is the real problem.
  58. @SFG
    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change...

    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change…

    I think the Presbyterians were similar in some ways but that they have a different origin starting in Scotland. You’re right about the other denominations except for the omission of the Congregationalists. They’re probably the most direct descendants of the Puritan mainstream. You could even make a case for the Christian Scientists as distant descendants and maybe even the Spiritualists. As you probably know, Unitarians have the reputation of being the most lefty-liberal these days. They still seem to have some influence in places like Boston. Also, Methodism, the most popular mainstream Protestant denomination in the US, was an 18th century offshoot of the Church of England, i.e. Anglican Church.

    • Replies: @Flip
    The Congregationalists are part of the United Church of Christ.
    , @Ivy
    Many UK residents over the years have categorized some religious people by country:

    Anglican / C of E - English
    Presbyterian - Scottish
    Methodist - Welsh
    Catholic - Irish

    While that is a generalization, and overall observance has been in a secular downtrend, there remains a grain of truth.
  59. @josh
    According to Google, you are the only person to ever use "mahal-nikkim". What does it mean?

    “According to Google, you are the only person to ever use “mahal-nikkim”. What does it mean?”

    Wow, that was obscure; you may well go through the rest of your life before you ever hear that again, but FWIW, there’s a Wikipedia article on it: look up “Mahal”.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Here is what he means;

    Machalniks

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahal_%28Israel%29

    The Machalniks were mostly World War II veterans from American and British armed forces. Allied armies were reduced considerably after the end of the war and many soldiers were demobilised; moreover, the service experience became mundane and did not suit some servicemen, particularly pilots. In various circumstances they were invited, or heard of the Jewish state's struggle for independence and volunteered. In some cases those who enlisted had no prior military experience.[3] There were Jews and Christians, both ideological supporters of Zionism and mercenaries.
     

    One of the most senior Machal personnel was Mickey Marcus, a Jewish United States Army colonel who assisted Israeli forces during the war and became Israel's first Brigadier General. Marcus's wartime experience was vital in breaking the 1948 Siege of Jerusalem.
     
  60. I am overjoyed and more than a little surprised to hear of this potential business deal! How wondrous and exciting it is to live in a time when Jewish America finally comes out of its shell and uses the media to speak to us! What will they say? What will we learn from these noble and silent people? What do they think of us and our ways? It’s all so exciting! It’s like a mysterious hermit kingdom sending ambassadors to our land!

    • Replies: @schmenz
    Priceless.
  61. “…the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian… — it was a German Jewish country club he couldn’t get into. …. Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club.”

    I’ve often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews. I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ….? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews …?

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @66

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews
     
    What do you mean? The majority of German Jews survived the Holocaust. That is one of those odd facts that tends to get brushed over. German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939. The highest mortality was naturally in the neighboring countries where Jews had no reason to expect Germans to show up and start killing them. Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate. Jews were well assimilated into Hungarian society and the Hungarians mostly considered them co-nationals until things started going very badly for the Axis in '43-44.
    , @syonredux

    I’ve often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews.
     
    Well, there are plenty of "disagreeable " British Jews. Two noxious specimens who spring to mind are Jonathan Freedland (Freedland's hysterical anti-eugenics thriller Pantheon, written under his Sam Bourne pseudonym, needs to be read to be believed) and Anthony Julius (cf his Trials of the Diaspora: A History of Anti-Semitism in England to get an inkling of what he really thinks of England).

    I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ….? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews …?
     
    Proportions count for a lot. One of the tragedies of American immigration policy in the 19th-early 20th century is that it allowed too much too soon. Needless to say, the lesson was not learned....
  62. I wonder if the NYT was in danger of being bought by Adelson and Saban, there might be a group of liberal billionaires (e.g. Gates, Buffet, Zuckerberg) who could outbid them or at least scare them out of the game.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    Saban is very Democratic, a giant Hillary booster, so an Adelson-Saban consortium would be bipartisan. Adelson would never be allowed to buy the NYT because he's Republican, but Saban is a Democrat. The problem is that Saban isn't that rich -- his net worth is $3.4 billion so this would be a significant chunk of change for him, while Adelson is, at least at the moment, much richer. It's a tricky prospect.

    Saban is very Democratic

    Ok, Saban is a Marty Peretz style rabid Jabotinzky Zionist who is a pro Open Borders, pro gay marriage, pro Common Core and pro Obamacare Hillary backing Democrat

    While Adelson is a Norman Podhoretz(“WW IV”) NeoCon’s NeoCon, who is also pro Open Borders, pro gay marriage, pro Obamacare(Lets Socialize the costs of cheap labor), pro Common Core, Jeb Bush backing Republican.

    Ok, you are right, “Two Jews, Three Arguments” can’t see what these two fellas could have in common.

    Oh Yeah, NUKE IRAN!!!!

  64. @Mr. Anon
    "Whiskey says:

    Hotair has a post link on how Salon is running a piece, in time for Veteran’s Day, saying the Military Does Not Protect My Freedom, White men evil, heteronormative, etc..

    Basically an anti-White guy screed from some Salon writer about how millions of dead pregnant women are killed every second by (White) cops, how the Military is an epidemic of rape and massacres, see:
    ——————
    ""Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” ""

    I'm no fan of Salon, but what that guy wrote is essentially right. This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn't protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn’t protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    Worship of soldiers is something that began with World War II, receded dramatically after Vietnam. revived with the Gulf War and later greatly reinforced with the GWOT. Cops weren’t very popular until the 1970’s crime wave and the roughly concurrent institutionalization of permanent racial polarization. IIRC, I think it was in the same period when it seemed like all the TV westerns were replaced by cop shows.

  65. @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    Traditionally, there’s a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured.

    I think H. L. Mencken (who as you probably know wasn’t Jewish) is on the record as praising German Jews while simultaneously criticizing those from Eastern Europe. He was probably reacting to the swelling volume of Russian Jewish immigration at the time, but his enthusiasm and identification with German intellectual culture might have been a factor as well.

    You’re right that German Jews tended to be better off than later immigrants from the Russian Empire, but I think there were still quite a few who were of modest means but who nevertheless had an advantage because they spoke German rather than Yiddish and because they had been less isolated from the mainstream back home in the German states or in the Habsburg Empire. Joseph Pullitzer would be one example. He found success in heavily-German St. Louis and even married a woman who was supposedly related to Jefferson Davis!

  66. Use of Yiddish would nearly always earn the epithet. To him, a speaker of Hochdeutsch, it was an uncouth dialect, fit only for the kitchen, not for civilized discourse.

    Yes, that is one reason why German Jewish Zionists like Herzl were so eager to push for Hebrew as the cultural language of the Jews, despite the very rich Yiddish literary and cultural life that had developed in the previous century. The Zionists wanted to eradicate the embarassment of Eastern European shtetl culture almost as badly as the Nazis did. The result is that Israel has a fairly sterile, shallow culture compared to the Yiddish culture that thrived in Poland and New York City before WWII.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Finish the sentence-concept. German Jews of the 18/19th century also made a conscious effort not to learn and speak tons of Yiddish but to learn and speak and conduct their religious services in German instead. The Reform Movement came from German Jews as well as the phrase "Germans of the Jewish Faith."

    But Yiddish or German in the home? That's another way you can tell which Jewish family tree in America one tended to come from.

    If your ancestors spoke Yiddish in the home, chances are your US tree originated from the Ellis Island generations.

    If your ancestors spoke German in the home, its most likely your family migrated much much earlier (17, 18, and early 19 centuries) to America.

  67. @Mr. Anon
    "Whiskey says:

    Hotair has a post link on how Salon is running a piece, in time for Veteran’s Day, saying the Military Does Not Protect My Freedom, White men evil, heteronormative, etc..

    Basically an anti-White guy screed from some Salon writer about how millions of dead pregnant women are killed every second by (White) cops, how the Military is an epidemic of rape and massacres, see:
    ——————
    ""Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” ""

    I'm no fan of Salon, but what that guy wrote is essentially right. This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn't protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    “”Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” “”

    Mr. Anon: I’m no fan of Salon, but what that guy wrote is essentially right. This country does tend to a childish worship of soldiers and policemen. And the military doesn’t protect my freedom. Endless foreign adventures in beknighted third-world hell-holes do NOT secure my freedom or that of any other American citizen. It is only fools like you who believe (or at least say you believe) that it does so.

    —-

    There are three different things going on here.

    1. Use of the word “hero” for someone who hasn’t actually done anything, and in the worst case, for someone who is actually a victim

    2. Excessive displays of patriotism and fawning over soldiers and police

    3. Unquestioning acceptance that everything the military does or is ordered to do must be right.

    1 is annoying but a side-effect of our feminized culture, 2 is also annoying but probably harmless except as it contributes to 3, which is the real problem.

  68. @dearieme
    "...the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian... — it was a German Jewish country club he couldn’t get into. .... Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    I've often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews. I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ....? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews ...?

    It's yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews.

    @66

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews

    What do you mean? The majority of German Jews survived the Holocaust. That is one of those odd facts that tends to get brushed over. German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939. The highest mortality was naturally in the neighboring countries where Jews had no reason to expect Germans to show up and start killing them. Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate. Jews were well assimilated into Hungarian society and the Hungarians mostly considered them co-nationals until things started going very badly for the Axis in ’43-44.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Of the German Jews who were unable to flee to the USA, Canada and Britain, many escaped to France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands and even Italy.

    While certainly civilian and resistance aid to Jews help a great deal. Logistical issues played a big role. Massive Allied fighter airstrikes on trains leaving France, Belgium and Italy prevented many Jews from being sent to concentration camps. Fighters on return from almost daily bomber escort duty were ordered to attack trains. Also there were numerous bombings of Gestapo stations in France that hampered deportations.

    Jews in the Netherlands were not nearly as lucky being next door to Germany and yet not on the direct return flight path back from Germany. Deportations even in 1944 went much more smoothly.

    The Danes threatened massive civil unrest, saving many Jews from deportation.

    Unfortunately for Hungarian Jews, the Italian Campaign bogged down in early 1944. Also Hungary was not in the direct flight path of US bombers hitting synthetic fuel plants in Poland and Romanian oil refineries. Deportations of Jews in the summer of 1944 were mostly uninterrupted by fighter attacks.

    Of course the Russians were in fighter and light bomber(10,000+ planes supplied by US taxpayers) range of the concentration camps and major rail centers through out eastern europe in late 1943-44, but did little to stop the Holocaust. Funny how hard left Holocaust revisionists like Howard Zinn let Stalin off the hook while blaming FDR, Eisenhower and White America(for passing the 1920's immigration acts) for the Holocaust.

    http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/yv/en/education/languages/dutch/pdf/article_croes.pdf
    , @kaganovitch
    "Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate."

    This is not so. Polish jews had a %90 casualty rate , Hungarian jews around 60 percent.
    , @dearieme
    "German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939." Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.
  69. @Ed
    I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism. There were many more Jews with that attitude than people today think. I don't know the extent to which this was true or if it changed with later generations. But it could explain Saban's and Adelson's interest in taking over the Times.

    "Impartial journalism can’t survive the free market any better than corporate research departments and good looking flight attendants. "

    This is a fascinating comment, but I don't quite get it, other than that all three have been disappearing. But arguably corporate research departments were done in by crony capitalism, not the free market. If the main determinant of the success of your business is government subsidized financing, navigating (or lobbying to create) government regulations, and maybe government contracts, how much do you really need to spend on research. And the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don't get at all.

    the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don’t get at all

    Anti-discrimination laws

    Union rules: can’t fire a broad just cuz she’s gaining weight or getting old

    Deregulation: once airlines could compete on price rather than amenities, no need to offer competitive pay for hot pieces of ass

  70. @Clyde
    Jeff Bezos acquired the Washington Post very quietly so was able to buy it at 250 million. He bought it in August 2013. The stock market is frothier since then. The economy is perkier. If Adelson and Saban buy the NYT they will have to pay between one and two billion. At least it would revert back to a better class of Jews. The alleged Jews who own it now are disgusting liberals with semi-Jewish parentage at best. iSteve readers who think the NYT is pro-Israel are mistaken. Pro-gay, pro-illegals, yes. Pro Israel, no.

    At least it would revert back to a better class of Jews. The alleged Jews who own it now are disgusting liberals with semi-Jewish parentage at best

    Adelson and Saban are leftist on US domestic politics more or less like the Sulzbergers (except that Adelson hates organized labor, and wants lower taxes on plutocrats).

  71. @International Jew
    "According to Google, you are the only person to ever use “mahal-nikkim”. What does it mean?"

    Wow, that was obscure; you may well go through the rest of your life before you ever hear that again, but FWIW, there's a Wikipedia article on it: look up "Mahal".

    Here is what he means;

    Machalniks

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahal_%28Israel%29

    The Machalniks were mostly World War II veterans from American and British armed forces. Allied armies were reduced considerably after the end of the war and many soldiers were demobilised; moreover, the service experience became mundane and did not suit some servicemen, particularly pilots. In various circumstances they were invited, or heard of the Jewish state’s struggle for independence and volunteered. In some cases those who enlisted had no prior military experience.[3] There were Jews and Christians, both ideological supporters of Zionism and mercenaries.

    One of the most senior Machal personnel was Mickey Marcus, a Jewish United States Army colonel who assisted Israeli forces during the war and became Israel’s first Brigadier General. Marcus’s wartime experience was vital in breaking the 1948 Siege of Jerusalem.

  72. Sheldon lost one child to drugs, another is an addict who cut them off, while his third is fine.

    To the Adelsons, who have apparently long contributed to anti-drug causes, I give sincerest thanks. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "To the Adelsons, who have apparently long contributed to anti-drug causes, I give sincerest thanks. Thank you."

    Thank God he works in an industry that has nothing to do with addiction.
  73. @Peter Akuleyev
    @66

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews
     
    What do you mean? The majority of German Jews survived the Holocaust. That is one of those odd facts that tends to get brushed over. German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939. The highest mortality was naturally in the neighboring countries where Jews had no reason to expect Germans to show up and start killing them. Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate. Jews were well assimilated into Hungarian society and the Hungarians mostly considered them co-nationals until things started going very badly for the Axis in '43-44.

    Of the German Jews who were unable to flee to the USA, Canada and Britain, many escaped to France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands and even Italy.

    While certainly civilian and resistance aid to Jews help a great deal. Logistical issues played a big role. Massive Allied fighter airstrikes on trains leaving France, Belgium and Italy prevented many Jews from being sent to concentration camps. Fighters on return from almost daily bomber escort duty were ordered to attack trains. Also there were numerous bombings of Gestapo stations in France that hampered deportations.

    Jews in the Netherlands were not nearly as lucky being next door to Germany and yet not on the direct return flight path back from Germany. Deportations even in 1944 went much more smoothly.

    The Danes threatened massive civil unrest, saving many Jews from deportation.

    Unfortunately for Hungarian Jews, the Italian Campaign bogged down in early 1944. Also Hungary was not in the direct flight path of US bombers hitting synthetic fuel plants in Poland and Romanian oil refineries. Deportations of Jews in the summer of 1944 were mostly uninterrupted by fighter attacks.

    Of course the Russians were in fighter and light bomber(10,000+ planes supplied by US taxpayers) range of the concentration camps and major rail centers through out eastern europe in late 1943-44, but did little to stop the Holocaust. Funny how hard left Holocaust revisionists like Howard Zinn let Stalin off the hook while blaming FDR, Eisenhower and White America(for passing the 1920’s immigration acts) for the Holocaust.

    http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/yv/en/education/languages/dutch/pdf/article_croes.pdf

  74. But I’m surprised that people living (I think) in this century care who owns newspapers. I haven’t read the NYT on paper in decades, and only read parts online when a posting links.

    I suspect that people younger than me don’t even do that.

    Commenters here are really showing their age (and obsessions).

    Just because the general public no longer reads newspapers frequently doesn’t mean they don’t matter. Newspapers and other organs of the media push the agenda that later gets put into the political arena. Just as most have no idea what a think tank is, such institutions propose the policies that are later accepted hook, line and sinker by our politicos. In many instances it is think tanks working in conjunction with the print media that sets that agenda for DC.

    By reconnoitering the NYT, the leading paper, Steve is just trying to get a heads up on what is coming next. Thus you will see his frequent reports about the upcoming World War T. So even though you don’t read them, the papers are still working hard to set the agenda.

  75. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran, but he’s praised all around, treated as a wise man, and sought for advice?

    What kind of country are we living in? Is this a liberal democracy or a Zionist-supremacist gangster state?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    "How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran,"

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years. It still is formally, except our resolve to pursue it has weakened along with -- not coincidentally -- our instinct for our own national preservation. To the Obama brain, "What right do we have to deny other countries nuclear weapons?" is persuasive, and in the same way that "What right do we have to live here and deny it to Mexicans?" is persuasive.

    This shouldn't have to be Israel's problem. It just looks that way because Israel is led by people who don't anguish over those naïve dilemmas.

    The US could wreck Iran's nuclear program at low cost -- a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they'd even do that; they can't afford it. There's no need for "boots on the ground", or nation-building that's silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea's nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won't be a pretty one.
  76. @Dahlia
    Sheldon lost one child to drugs, another is an addict who cut them off, while his third is fine.

    To the Adelsons, who have apparently long contributed to anti-drug causes, I give sincerest thanks. Thank you.

    “To the Adelsons, who have apparently long contributed to anti-drug causes, I give sincerest thanks. Thank you.”

    Thank God he works in an industry that has nothing to do with addiction.

  77. “The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.”

    What about foreign books do you want to ban those too? If so why or why not? Should nationals be allowed to seek out information from foreign media?

  78. @Neutral
    So if I mention that jews run the media and want to control the minds of people, then it is just another anti-semitic canard. One is supposed to simply ignore all the evidence, even when it is slapping you in face.

    One is supposed to simply ignore all the evidence, even when it is slapping you in face.

    Yes.

  79. @IBC

    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change…
     
    I think the Presbyterians were similar in some ways but that they have a different origin starting in Scotland. You're right about the other denominations except for the omission of the Congregationalists. They're probably the most direct descendants of the Puritan mainstream. You could even make a case for the Christian Scientists as distant descendants and maybe even the Spiritualists. As you probably know, Unitarians have the reputation of being the most lefty-liberal these days. They still seem to have some influence in places like Boston. Also, Methodism, the most popular mainstream Protestant denomination in the US, was an 18th century offshoot of the Church of England, i.e. Anglican Church.

    The Congregationalists are part of the United Church of Christ.

    • Replies: @IBC
    @IBC

    The Congregationalists are part of the United Church of Christ.
     
    Thanks, I see that you're mostly right. According to Wikipedia, most Congregationalist churches joined the United Church of Christ in the 1950s except for a minority who are still independent to this day.
  80. @Peter Akuleyev
    @66

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews
     
    What do you mean? The majority of German Jews survived the Holocaust. That is one of those odd facts that tends to get brushed over. German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939. The highest mortality was naturally in the neighboring countries where Jews had no reason to expect Germans to show up and start killing them. Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate. Jews were well assimilated into Hungarian society and the Hungarians mostly considered them co-nationals until things started going very badly for the Axis in '43-44.

    “Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate.”

    This is not so. Polish jews had a %90 casualty rate , Hungarian jews around 60 percent.

  81. @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    “Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club.”

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The “German” Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed — and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end — it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you’re a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Wherever did you come up with that?!"

    P. 291 of Stephen Birmingham's "The Rest of Us: The Rise of America's Eastern European Jews."

    http://books.google.com/books?id=M1bzaOS3_tsC&pg=PA291&dq=%22german+jewish%22+club+golf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZpxgVIDwMJS0yATP54K4BA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22german%20jewish%22%20club%20golf&f=false

    , @Jack D
    Regardless of the Polish origins of many of the German Jews (in some cases this was quite distant anyway), by the time they joined the ranks of elite German-American Jewish society, they thought of themselves as being in quite another group than the poor eastern Jewish immigrants that began streaming into the US around the turn of the 20th century. German Jews, if they spoke another language beside English (some families had come in the 1840s and no doubt no longer spoke any other language at all) it was German, not Yiddish. If they attended any religious worship, it was at Reform "Temples", complete with church organs and choirs - basically Protestant churches minus Jesus. Whereas the newcomers were, at least at first, mostly Orthodox and worshiped in synagogues where men and women were separated (the women in the balcony where they took no active part), musical instruments and singing women forbidden, etc. They ate different food (many German Jews no longer kept kosher), etc. They recognized the new immigrants as their coreligionists to whom they owed charitable obligations (esp. to help them assimilate so that they wouldn't be tarred with the same brush) but not as belonging to their "crowd". The fact that great-grandpa may have once upon a time come from the same place as these later arrivals meant nothing. After a few generations in Berlin or Vienna and then New York or New Orleans, their origins in the east were of little relevance.

    It really takes no time at all - when I visited Israel I met some of my distant cousins and the offspring of my father's friends from Poland. Even though their parents and my parents had lived in the same place until they were in their 20s and even in some cases were blood relatives, I was already an "American" and they were "Israelis" and we were quite different from each other in many ways. Later I met others who had been left behind the Iron Curtain and they too had become quite different in the space of one generation.
    , @syonredux

    Steve, you’re a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.
     
    Well, as Steve noted, he got his information regarding German Jewish country clubs from Birmingham's The Rest of Us: The Rise of America’s Eastern European Jews, and Birmingham is an excellent source for details on the history and mores of social elites.Birmingham's other books on elite Jews in the USA ( Our Crowd: The Great Jewish Families of New York and The Grandees: America's Sephardic Elite) are also well worth reading.
    , @Ed
    German Jews had little to do with Polish Jewry until about WW1. The Rothschilds, Warburgs et al had nothing to do with Poland. The Our Crowd Jews had little to do with Poland culturally, they certainly didn't speak Yiddish. German Jewry has been in Germany since about the 4th century.

    The snobbery of German Jewry in America towards Jewish immigrants from the Pale is well documented.
  82. [sorry, unzware hickup]

  83. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    We say US is ruled by elites, but ‘elite’ is an abstract notion.
    After all, Wasp elites were ‘elites’, and Jewish elites are ‘elites’.

    So, are there no differences? No, everything from domestic policy, educational policy, economic policy, border policy, and foreign policy has to do with the ETHNIC makeup of elites.

    So, what is really crucial is ethno-elites or ethnites.

    And one thing for sure, Adelson has more in common with Saban than he does with most conservatives, and Saban has more in common with Adelson than he does with most liberals.

    This is why Francis Fukuyama is ultimately a worthless thinker. He deals with sheer abstractions like ‘liberal democracy’, ‘trust’, ‘history’, ‘elites’, ‘corruption’, ‘rule of law’, and etc.

    While all such concepts, principles, and values are important, they are always manipulated by elites with tribal, selective, or narrow interests.

    Suppose Jewish-Americans rule America in one case, and Palestinian-Americans rule America in the other case. Let’s say in both cases the elites govern American via democracy and rule-of-law. So, will there be no differences between them? Or will Jewish-elites subtly and not-so-subtly steer rule of law toward Jewish interests? Will Palestinian-Americans subtly and not-so-subtly steer rule of law toward Palestinian interests?

    In a youtube video, Fukuyama reminds us that America was full of political corruption in the past too, especially due to the patronage system installed by Andrew Jackson.

    He is correct to say this. Americans shouldn’t be holier than thou in pointing fingers at other nations as if Americans have been pure as snow.

    Even so, the levels of corruption and competence/incompetence are shaped by ethnic natures of a people.

    It’s like Irish-American urban politics was corrupt, but even corrupt Irish-Americans did a much better job than corrupt blacks.
    A corrupt Japanese or German will do a better job than a corrupt Mexican or Tamil. There are issues of racial IQ differences and national characters, but Fukuyama the coward doesn’t wanna go there.

    He also berates Putin for crony-ism, and he’s right that Russia is very corrupt. But he fails to mention what gave to rise to Putin-ism. …

    In the video, Fuku says we should use ‘realism’ to keep the ISIS fighting against Assad. So, Fuku, just like Jews, want more mayhem in the Middle East just so Arabs will slaughter Arabs to the delight of Israel. Assad is no saint,but he was one of the stabilizing forces in the region before US, Saudis, and Israelis began funneling funds and weapons to Syrian rebels.

    Fuku’s realism isn’t realism at all but really just pro-Zionism-by-other-means.

    If realism is about American national interest, what does it matter to us if Assad remains the head of Syria? Syria poses no threat to us.

    It’s Israel that hates Syria as an ally of Iran. It’s not our problem but only became our problem because US foreign policy is controlled by Zionists.

    So, the only true realist policy would be to stop working with rebels—especially the demented Khmer Rouge-like ISIS—to destabilize the Assad regime, but Fuku would rather have US pull strings so that ISIS will keep making trouble for Assad. …

  84. @dearieme
    "...the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian... — it was a German Jewish country club he couldn’t get into. .... Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    I've often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews. I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ....? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews ...?

    It's yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews.

    I’ve often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews.

    Well, there are plenty of “disagreeable ” British Jews. Two noxious specimens who spring to mind are Jonathan Freedland (Freedland’s hysterical anti-eugenics thriller Pantheon, written under his Sam Bourne pseudonym, needs to be read to be believed) and Anthony Julius (cf his Trials of the Diaspora: A History of Anti-Semitism in England to get an inkling of what he really thinks of England).

    I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ….? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews …?

    Proportions count for a lot. One of the tragedies of American immigration policy in the 19th-early 20th century is that it allowed too much too soon. Needless to say, the lesson was not learned….

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Well, there are plenty of “disagreeable ” British Jews. Two noxious specimens who spring to mind are .... and Anthony Julius": yes, he's pretty toxic.


    There are plenty of disagreeable people: it's a question of proportions.

    Come to think of it, the continued existence of people like Anthony Julius is pretty good evidence against an all-powerful Jewish Conspiracy. If there were such a thing, they'd get Julius silenced to protect their reputation.

  85. @International Jew
    "Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The "German" Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed -- and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end -- it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you're a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    “Wherever did you come up with that?!”

    P. 291 of Stephen Birmingham’s “The Rest of Us: The Rise of America’s Eastern European Jews.”

    http://books.google.com/books?id=M1bzaOS3_tsC&pg=PA291&dq=%22german+jewish%22+club+golf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZpxgVIDwMJS0yATP54K4BA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22german%20jewish%22%20club%20golf&f=false

    • Replies: @International Jew
    You left out his "of any size" when you paraphrased him. And his one example -- New York City -- doesn't help us much with a lower bound, huh?
  86. @Priss Factor
    How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran, but he's praised all around, treated as a wise man, and sought for advice?

    What kind of country are we living in? Is this a liberal democracy or a Zionist-supremacist gangster state?

    “How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran,”

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years. It still is formally, except our resolve to pursue it has weakened along with — not coincidentally — our instinct for our own national preservation. To the Obama brain, “What right do we have to deny other countries nuclear weapons?” is persuasive, and in the same way that “What right do we have to live here and deny it to Mexicans?” is persuasive.

    This shouldn’t have to be Israel’s problem. It just looks that way because Israel is led by people who don’t anguish over those naïve dilemmas.

    The US could wreck Iran’s nuclear program at low cost — a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they’d even do that; they can’t afford it. There’s no need for “boots on the ground”, or nation-building that’s silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea’s nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won’t be a pretty one.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Really do you have to repeat a Neocon lie about when North Korea got the bomb. It was under Dubya's watch. And even then it was of a rather low yield.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_North_Korean_nuclear_program

    Sorry, but NeoCon's can not blame Jimmy Carter for everything.

    Jews have had a complex and often beneficial relationship with the Persians since Cyrus the Great to the Shah and beyond. For Israel or the US by proxy to nuke Iran because a bunch of NeoCons got ants in their pants would be a huge mistake.

    And it will take Nukes, big ones to knock out Iran underground facilities.

    , @Lugash
    I'm sure Israel's got a dozen cruise missiles. Let them take of the 'problem'.
    , @Difference Maker
    The US could wreck Iran’s nuclear program at low cost — a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they’d even do that; they can’t afford it. There’s no need for “boots on the ground”, or nation-building that’s silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea’s nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won’t be a pretty one

    Even so, it is not our business. Let Israel take the risk for Israel's own belligerence.

    America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house

  87. @Steve Sailer
    "Wherever did you come up with that?!"

    P. 291 of Stephen Birmingham's "The Rest of Us: The Rise of America's Eastern European Jews."

    http://books.google.com/books?id=M1bzaOS3_tsC&pg=PA291&dq=%22german+jewish%22+club+golf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZpxgVIDwMJS0yATP54K4BA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22german%20jewish%22%20club%20golf&f=false

    You left out his “of any size” when you paraphrased him. And his one example — New York City — doesn’t help us much with a lower bound, huh?

  88. @countenance
    the Times’ open hostility towards Israel

    When did I land in an alternate universe?

    No kidding. Considering how outrageously pro-Israel they are now I would think Adelson should save his money.

  89. @Chubby Ape
    I am overjoyed and more than a little surprised to hear of this potential business deal! How wondrous and exciting it is to live in a time when Jewish America finally comes out of its shell and uses the media to speak to us! What will they say? What will we learn from these noble and silent people? What do they think of us and our ways? It's all so exciting! It's like a mysterious hermit kingdom sending ambassadors to our land!

    Priceless.

  90. The power and paranoia of the jewish elite unmatched, it has worked extremely well for them.

  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking of Jewish people and class, do any if you know the origins of N.Y.C. accents? I think they sound very low brow, but New Yorkers seem to love them. Are they mostly Jewish or Italian in origin, or an amalgamation of the many different ethnic groups that have settled in N.Y.C. over the years.

    FWIW, I always think that Mort Zimmerman is an example of a very elegant man/Jewish man. I really don’t know much about his background. His Wikipedia entry makes him sound like he’s from fairly humble roots, but that’s not really the vibe I get from him.

  92. The “German” Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland,

    No, Polish Jews generally meant Jews from Russian controlled Poland. Jews in Prussian Poland (and there were relatively few) became German very quickly and had identified with German culture even before partition. Jews in Austrian Poland typically thought of themselves as “Galizianer” (“Galician Jews”), not Polish, and spoke Yiddish. “German Jews” in Austria were Jews from places like Vienna, Prague or Brno who spoke German as their mother tongue and identified strongly with German culture. Some of these Jews had roots a few generations back in Poland, but many of them, especially Prague Jews, had been living in their native cities longer than much of the ethnic German population.

  93. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As Steve has noted, the NY media/neocon/neolib elite like to throw the left an LGBT bone nowadays when they want to push something questionable, such as that little LGBT shout out in the New Republic “Make America More Like Qatar” article. All that State Department-manufactured Pussy Riot hysteria tried to get libs worked up about Putin. When we finally nuke some country, you can bet they’ll have a tranny pilot on the bomber.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "When we finally nuke some country, you can bet they’ll have a tranny pilot on the bomber."

    The real Enola Gay.
  94. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Pinch Sulzberger does try hard to exude an air of waspish ivy league refinement.

    Adelson and Saban buying the NYT would be like Al Czervik buying Bushwood Country Club.

    I can see the first Adelson/Saban NYT headline now.

    What's Wrong With You Obama, You Big Shmushka? Nuke Tehran Now!

    Krugman, Dowd, Brooks and Friedman can be the new Power Rangers , expanding the brand of crappy kids TV to the elites.This is Mr. Saban’s circus and you are the monkeys: put on these costumes now or get out!

  95. @anonymous
    As Steve has noted, the NY media/neocon/neolib elite like to throw the left an LGBT bone nowadays when they want to push something questionable, such as that little LGBT shout out in the New Republic "Make America More Like Qatar" article. All that State Department-manufactured Pussy Riot hysteria tried to get libs worked up about Putin. When we finally nuke some country, you can bet they'll have a tranny pilot on the bomber.

    “When we finally nuke some country, you can bet they’ll have a tranny pilot on the bomber.”

    The real Enola Gay.

  96. @International Jew
    "How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran,"

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years. It still is formally, except our resolve to pursue it has weakened along with -- not coincidentally -- our instinct for our own national preservation. To the Obama brain, "What right do we have to deny other countries nuclear weapons?" is persuasive, and in the same way that "What right do we have to live here and deny it to Mexicans?" is persuasive.

    This shouldn't have to be Israel's problem. It just looks that way because Israel is led by people who don't anguish over those naïve dilemmas.

    The US could wreck Iran's nuclear program at low cost -- a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they'd even do that; they can't afford it. There's no need for "boots on the ground", or nation-building that's silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea's nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won't be a pretty one.

    Really do you have to repeat a Neocon lie about when North Korea got the bomb. It was under Dubya’s watch. And even then it was of a rather low yield.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_North_Korean_nuclear_program

    Sorry, but NeoCon’s can not blame Jimmy Carter for everything.

    Jews have had a complex and often beneficial relationship with the Persians since Cyrus the Great to the Shah and beyond. For Israel or the US by proxy to nuke Iran because a bunch of NeoCons got ants in their pants would be a huge mistake.

    And it will take Nukes, big ones to knock out Iran underground facilities.

  97. @International Jew
    "How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran,"

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years. It still is formally, except our resolve to pursue it has weakened along with -- not coincidentally -- our instinct for our own national preservation. To the Obama brain, "What right do we have to deny other countries nuclear weapons?" is persuasive, and in the same way that "What right do we have to live here and deny it to Mexicans?" is persuasive.

    This shouldn't have to be Israel's problem. It just looks that way because Israel is led by people who don't anguish over those naïve dilemmas.

    The US could wreck Iran's nuclear program at low cost -- a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they'd even do that; they can't afford it. There's no need for "boots on the ground", or nation-building that's silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea's nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won't be a pretty one.

    I’m sure Israel’s got a dozen cruise missiles. Let them take of the ‘problem’.

  98. @International Jew
    "Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The "German" Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed -- and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end -- it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you're a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    Regardless of the Polish origins of many of the German Jews (in some cases this was quite distant anyway), by the time they joined the ranks of elite German-American Jewish society, they thought of themselves as being in quite another group than the poor eastern Jewish immigrants that began streaming into the US around the turn of the 20th century. German Jews, if they spoke another language beside English (some families had come in the 1840s and no doubt no longer spoke any other language at all) it was German, not Yiddish. If they attended any religious worship, it was at Reform “Temples”, complete with church organs and choirs – basically Protestant churches minus Jesus. Whereas the newcomers were, at least at first, mostly Orthodox and worshiped in synagogues where men and women were separated (the women in the balcony where they took no active part), musical instruments and singing women forbidden, etc. They ate different food (many German Jews no longer kept kosher), etc. They recognized the new immigrants as their coreligionists to whom they owed charitable obligations (esp. to help them assimilate so that they wouldn’t be tarred with the same brush) but not as belonging to their “crowd”. The fact that great-grandpa may have once upon a time come from the same place as these later arrivals meant nothing. After a few generations in Berlin or Vienna and then New York or New Orleans, their origins in the east were of little relevance.

    It really takes no time at all – when I visited Israel I met some of my distant cousins and the offspring of my father’s friends from Poland. Even though their parents and my parents had lived in the same place until they were in their 20s and even in some cases were blood relatives, I was already an “American” and they were “Israelis” and we were quite different from each other in many ways. Later I met others who had been left behind the Iron Curtain and they too had become quite different in the space of one generation.

  99. @Peter Akuleyev
    @66

    It’s yet another reason to regret the slaughter of the German Jews
     
    What do you mean? The majority of German Jews survived the Holocaust. That is one of those odd facts that tends to get brushed over. German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939. The highest mortality was naturally in the neighboring countries where Jews had no reason to expect Germans to show up and start killing them. Poland suffered worst of all in pure numbers, but I think in percentage terms Hungary had the highest mortality rate. Jews were well assimilated into Hungarian society and the Hungarians mostly considered them co-nationals until things started going very badly for the Axis in '43-44.

    “German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939.” Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939.” Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.
     
    Well, here's WIKIPEDIA on the subject:

    Increasing antisemitism prompted a wave of a Jewish mass emigration from Germany throughout the 1930s. Soon after their rise to power in 1933, the Nazis negotiated the Haavara Agreement between Zionist authorities in Palestine, which was signed on August 25, 1933. Under its terms, 60,000 German Jews were allowed to emigrate to Palestine and take $100 million in assets with them.[39] Between 1929 and 1939, a total of 250,000 Jewish immigrants arrived in Palestine. Of these, 174,000 arrived between 1933 and 1936. After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration. This wave of immigration was part of the Fifth Aliyah, and saw many Jewish doctors, lawyers, professionals, and professors leave the country.

    The United States was another destination for German Jews seeking to leave the country, though the number allowed to immigrate was restricted due to the Immigration Act of 1924. Between 1933 and 1939, more than 300,000 Germans, some 90% of them Jews, applied for immigration visas to the United States. By 1940, only 90,000 German Jews had been granted visas and allowed to settle in the United States. Some 100,000 German Jews also moved to Western European countries, especially France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. However, these countries would later be occupied by Germany, and many of them would still fall victim to the Holocaust. Another 48,000 emigrated to the United Kingdom and other European countries.[40]

    Overall, of the 522,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933, only 214,000 were left by the eve of World War II.[4]
     
    So, the relevant figures are:

    Total German Jewish pop in 1933: 522,00

    Of this total, the number of Jews who, without doubt, escaped the Holocaust by fleeing to safe destinations:

    60,000: Palestine

    90,000: USA

    48,000: UK and other European nations (I'm assuming from the wording that these other nations were beyond the reach of the Nazis: Spain, Sweden, etc)

    60,000 + 90,000+ 48,000= 198,000
  100. @syonredux

    I’ve often wondered why British Jews are reputed to be more agreeable than American Jews.
     
    Well, there are plenty of "disagreeable " British Jews. Two noxious specimens who spring to mind are Jonathan Freedland (Freedland's hysterical anti-eugenics thriller Pantheon, written under his Sam Bourne pseudonym, needs to be read to be believed) and Anthony Julius (cf his Trials of the Diaspora: A History of Anti-Semitism in England to get an inkling of what he really thinks of England).

    I suppose that among British Jews it was the cultured ones who set the tone. Was it a matter of proportions, of timing, ….? Is the same true of French Jews, Dutch Jews, Italian Jews …?
     
    Proportions count for a lot. One of the tragedies of American immigration policy in the 19th-early 20th century is that it allowed too much too soon. Needless to say, the lesson was not learned....

    “Well, there are plenty of “disagreeable ” British Jews. Two noxious specimens who spring to mind are …. and Anthony Julius”: yes, he’s pretty toxic.

    There are plenty of disagreeable people: it’s a question of proportions.

    Come to think of it, the continued existence of people like Anthony Julius is pretty good evidence against an all-powerful Jewish Conspiracy. If there were such a thing, they’d get Julius silenced to protect their reputation.

  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    So-called “Russian” Jews who came here before 1918 were mostly Polish Jews who had lived in the territories annexed by the Russians during the 18th century partitions of Poland (roughly the eastern half of Poland, incl. Warsaw). Several Israeli prime ministers were Polish, incl. Ben-Gurion who was born and raised in a small town north of Warsaw. As the newly opened Polin Museum of the History of Polish Jews in Warsaw demonstrates, it was Poland that offered refuge to the Jews expelled many times from Western Europe, and it became the world center of Jewish life in the last 800 years. This implies that most of the American Ashkenazi Jews actually have their roots in Poland.

    Similarly, many Polish families found themselves living in the territories annexed by the Russian Empire in the 1700s and went on to make great cultural contributions. Tchaikovsky (i.e., Czajkowski), Shostakovich, Tsiolkovsky, and Nijinsky all had Polish ancestry.

  102. @Grumpy Old Man
    The Lebanese-Mexican Carlos Slim has a stake. I wonder where he stands.

    I’m guessing Carlos could care less, Sheldon and him are both open border advocates. Carlos for long distance phone calls and Sheldon needs a continued supply of cheap labor to clean that monstrosity casino of his in Las Vegas.

  103. I corresponded with Haim Saban’s wife Cheryl on Twitter. Here she is on Sheldon Adelson:

  104. @International Jew
    "Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The "German" Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed -- and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end -- it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you're a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    Steve, you’re a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    Well, as Steve noted, he got his information regarding German Jewish country clubs from Birmingham’s The Rest of Us: The Rise of America’s Eastern European Jews, and Birmingham is an excellent source for details on the history and mores of social elites.Birmingham’s other books on elite Jews in the USA ( Our Crowd: The Great Jewish Families of New York and The Grandees: America’s Sephardic Elite) are also well worth reading.

  105. The New York City accent is a Dutch accent that goes back to the days when it was called New Amsterdam. It’s pretty obvious if you’ve been to the Netherlands and hear how they speak English, D’s for Th’s etc.

  106. @International Jew
    "Just about every city in America had the “good” (German) Jewish country club and the “other” (Russian) country club."

    Wherever did you come up with that?!

    Snobbery against Ostjuden reflected typical old-timer snobbery against greenhorns. There was nothing ethnic (subethnic?) about it. The "German" Jews were after all by and large Polish Jews who lived in areas annexed into Germany and Austria following the partition of Poland, and Polish Jews who emigrated westward in search of opportunity. (Indeed -- and this will please the knuckle-draggers here no end -- it was those Polish origins that Hitler seized upon, to justify his expulsions eastward of Jewish citizens.)

    Steve, you're a good guy but you get a lot of your ideas about the Jews from unreliable sources.

    German Jews had little to do with Polish Jewry until about WW1. The Rothschilds, Warburgs et al had nothing to do with Poland. The Our Crowd Jews had little to do with Poland culturally, they certainly didn’t speak Yiddish. German Jewry has been in Germany since about the 4th century.

    The snobbery of German Jewry in America towards Jewish immigrants from the Pale is well documented.

    • Replies: @SFG
    It's counterintuitive to think of the cultures as having anything in common now, but when it comes to intellectual arrogance...who could beat a person who was simultaneously German AND Jewish? ;)

    All: thanks for the hints on denominations. I can't keep them all straight half the time, but it's an important part of American history!
  107. @dearieme
    "German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939." Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.

    “German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939.” Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.

    Well, here’s WIKIPEDIA on the subject:

    Increasing antisemitism prompted a wave of a Jewish mass emigration from Germany throughout the 1930s. Soon after their rise to power in 1933, the Nazis negotiated the Haavara Agreement between Zionist authorities in Palestine, which was signed on August 25, 1933. Under its terms, 60,000 German Jews were allowed to emigrate to Palestine and take $100 million in assets with them.[39] Between 1929 and 1939, a total of 250,000 Jewish immigrants arrived in Palestine. Of these, 174,000 arrived between 1933 and 1936. After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration. This wave of immigration was part of the Fifth Aliyah, and saw many Jewish doctors, lawyers, professionals, and professors leave the country.

    The United States was another destination for German Jews seeking to leave the country, though the number allowed to immigrate was restricted due to the Immigration Act of 1924. Between 1933 and 1939, more than 300,000 Germans, some 90% of them Jews, applied for immigration visas to the United States. By 1940, only 90,000 German Jews had been granted visas and allowed to settle in the United States. Some 100,000 German Jews also moved to Western European countries, especially France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. However, these countries would later be occupied by Germany, and many of them would still fall victim to the Holocaust. Another 48,000 emigrated to the United Kingdom and other European countries.[40]

    Overall, of the 522,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933, only 214,000 were left by the eve of World War II.[4]

    So, the relevant figures are:

    Total German Jewish pop in 1933: 522,00

    Of this total, the number of Jews who, without doubt, escaped the Holocaust by fleeing to safe destinations:

    60,000: Palestine

    90,000: USA

    48,000: UK and other European nations (I’m assuming from the wording that these other nations were beyond the reach of the Nazis: Spain, Sweden, etc)

    60,000 + 90,000+ 48,000= 198,000

    • Replies: @dearieme
    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says "After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration"? My memory is that in "The Myth of Rescue" William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.

    Be that as it may, your arithmetic implies that about 60% of German and Austrian Jews were killed, implying in turn that "most of them got out of Europe by 1939" was indeed wrong.

    60% still seems a fair old slaughter to me, but it clearly is far preferable to 100%.
  108. @Ed
    German Jews had little to do with Polish Jewry until about WW1. The Rothschilds, Warburgs et al had nothing to do with Poland. The Our Crowd Jews had little to do with Poland culturally, they certainly didn't speak Yiddish. German Jewry has been in Germany since about the 4th century.

    The snobbery of German Jewry in America towards Jewish immigrants from the Pale is well documented.

    It’s counterintuitive to think of the cultures as having anything in common now, but when it comes to intellectual arrogance…who could beat a person who was simultaneously German AND Jewish? 😉

    All: thanks for the hints on denominations. I can’t keep them all straight half the time, but it’s an important part of American history!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    That's Henry Kissinger's view of himself. And throw in a little plucky American pragmatism. That kind of self-confidence can take a man places.
  109. @SFG
    It's counterintuitive to think of the cultures as having anything in common now, but when it comes to intellectual arrogance...who could beat a person who was simultaneously German AND Jewish? ;)

    All: thanks for the hints on denominations. I can't keep them all straight half the time, but it's an important part of American history!

    That’s Henry Kissinger’s view of himself. And throw in a little plucky American pragmatism. That kind of self-confidence can take a man places.

  110. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    Traditionally, the Sephardic Jews who could trace their descent from Spain (think Cardozo) and Middle European German speaking Jews and their descendants were the absolute Jewish elite. The Eastern Jews, the ones from Russia and Poland, were considered lower class by the Germans and Sephardi, whatever their accomplishments but this was never blamed on any Gentiles, at least not in my family. It was blamed on the German Jews who were considered intermarried snobs. True Sephardic Jews got a pass – they were held in awe somewhat, a true nobility. A great deal of effort was expended by the children of immigrant Eastern Jews to surpass the accomplishments of the German Jews and rub their faces in it a bit.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Nu, enough already. When the Jews can hijack a perfectly good antisemitic blog like this, that only proves that our ultimate goal is world domination.
  111. @syonredux

    “German and Austrian Jews had money and education, had no desire to live under the Nazis, and most of them got out of Europe by 1939.” Are you sure? I know many left Germany, but they often moved to France, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands, so they were murdered just the same.
     
    Well, here's WIKIPEDIA on the subject:

    Increasing antisemitism prompted a wave of a Jewish mass emigration from Germany throughout the 1930s. Soon after their rise to power in 1933, the Nazis negotiated the Haavara Agreement between Zionist authorities in Palestine, which was signed on August 25, 1933. Under its terms, 60,000 German Jews were allowed to emigrate to Palestine and take $100 million in assets with them.[39] Between 1929 and 1939, a total of 250,000 Jewish immigrants arrived in Palestine. Of these, 174,000 arrived between 1933 and 1936. After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration. This wave of immigration was part of the Fifth Aliyah, and saw many Jewish doctors, lawyers, professionals, and professors leave the country.

    The United States was another destination for German Jews seeking to leave the country, though the number allowed to immigrate was restricted due to the Immigration Act of 1924. Between 1933 and 1939, more than 300,000 Germans, some 90% of them Jews, applied for immigration visas to the United States. By 1940, only 90,000 German Jews had been granted visas and allowed to settle in the United States. Some 100,000 German Jews also moved to Western European countries, especially France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. However, these countries would later be occupied by Germany, and many of them would still fall victim to the Holocaust. Another 48,000 emigrated to the United Kingdom and other European countries.[40]

    Overall, of the 522,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933, only 214,000 were left by the eve of World War II.[4]
     
    So, the relevant figures are:

    Total German Jewish pop in 1933: 522,00

    Of this total, the number of Jews who, without doubt, escaped the Holocaust by fleeing to safe destinations:

    60,000: Palestine

    90,000: USA

    48,000: UK and other European nations (I'm assuming from the wording that these other nations were beyond the reach of the Nazis: Spain, Sweden, etc)

    60,000 + 90,000+ 48,000= 198,000

    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says “After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration”? My memory is that in “The Myth of Rescue” William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.

    Be that as it may, your arithmetic implies that about 60% of German and Austrian Jews were killed, implying in turn that “most of them got out of Europe by 1939” was indeed wrong.

    60% still seems a fair old slaughter to me, but it clearly is far preferable to 100%.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says “After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration”? My memory is that in “The Myth of Rescue” William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.
     
    Anything from WIKIPEDIA comes with an implicit caveat.

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?) has this to say on German Jewish emigration:

    The initial response to the Nazi takeover was a substantial wave of emigration (37,000–38,000), much of it to neighboring European countries (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, and Switzerland). Most of these refugees were later caught by the Nazis after their conquest of western Europe in May 1940.
     

    During the next two years there was a decline in the number of emigrants.
     

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     

    The events of 1938 caused a dramatic increase in Jewish emigration. The German annexation of Austria in March, the increase in personal assaults on Jews during the spring and summer, the nationwide Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom in November, and the subsequent seizure of Jewish-owned property all caused a flood of visa applications. Although finding a destination proved difficult, about 36,000 Jews left Germany and Austria in 1938 and 77,000 in 1939.
     

    By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

     


    At the end of 1939, about 202,000 Jews remained in Germany and 57,000 in annexed Austria, many of them elderly. By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000.
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468


    And here is their estimate for the death toll:

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469

    The USHMM gives the same figure for the 1933 German Jewish pop (522,000):

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.
  112. Let’s get some numbers straight. According to Wikipedia, in 1933 there were only 522,000 Jews in Germany, about 200,000 in Austria, and more than 3.5 million in Poland. Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century. As much as the American Jews don’t like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century.
     
    I didn't see much evidence for "slaughter" in the 19th century; the only large scale anti-Jewish violence mentioned in the article were the Hep-Hep Riots (August to October 1819), and no figures are given for deaths. Here's the WIKIPEDIA description of the events:

    The riots began on 2 August 1819 in Würzburg. After several days troops were called in. The Jewish population fled the city and spent several days in tents in the vicinity. No Jews were killed during the riots in Würzburg.

    The riots swept through other Bavarian towns and villages, then spread to Bamberg, Bayreuth, Darmstadt, Karlsruhe, Mannheim, Frankfurt, Koblenz, Cologne and other cities along the Rhine, and as far north as Bremen, Hamburg, and Lübeck.[10]

    In some towns, the police appeared too late or stood by idly while the mob raged through the streets. In towns where the militia arrived promptly, the riots were put down relatively quickly. In Heidelberg the police were tardy in their response, but two professors and their students took the law into their hands and prevented a bloody pogrom. They restrained the culprits and made citizen's arrests. With the exception of Heidelberg, townspeople generally remained passive bystanders.[11]

    In several cities, members of the bourgeoisie, students, and even university professors were among the instigators. Ludwig Robert, a Jewish playwright who recently converted to Christianity, gave an eyewitness account of the rioting:

    ... I walked all the way to the Waldhorngasse. There I caught sight of the commandant of the city, General Bruckner, on horseback, and as there was still sporadic shouting, he told his patrol: "Let the bastards shout away if they insist, but the minute they do something dumb, let them have it!" Everyone in town was standing at their open windows, and I went back slowly, close to the buildings, so that I could hear what was being said and assess the mood.

    Children were playing in front of the doorsteps, laughing and giggling; they told about the day's events with childish interest. But none of the men or women admonished them or even engaged them in serious conversation. And there was even less chance of seeing a priest, even though in my opinion this was truly where they ought to have been, as teachers of the religion that holds love in such esteem.

    How corrupt people really are and how inadequate their sense of law and justice not to mention their love of humanity - is clear from the fact that there was no indignation expressed at these incidents, not even in the official papers... The townspeople are said to have been angry with Bruckner for closing the taverns right away. They threatened to tear him off his horse."
    —[12]
    After three days of pogrom in Karlsruhe, the infantry was called in and cannons were deployed in the streets. The grand duke of Baden demonstrated his solidarity with the Jews of his capital by taking up residence at the home of a prominent Karlsruhe Jew. After this, calm was restored.[13]
     
    This sounds nasty but it doesn't sound like mass slaughter. Frankly, the anti-Catholic Gordon Riots (1780) in England sound worse, at least in terms of deaths:

    March on Parliament[edit]
    On 2 June 1780 a huge crowd, estimated at 40,000 to 60,000 strong, assembled and marched on the Houses of Parliament. Many carried flags and banners proclaiming "No Popery", and most wore blue cockades which had become the symbol of their movement. As they marched, their numbers swelled. They attempted to force their way into the House of Commons, but without success. Gordon, petition in hand, and wearing in his hat the blue cockade of the Protestant Association, entered the Commons and presented the petition. Outside, the situation quickly got out of hand and a riot erupted. Members of the House of Lords were attacked as they arrived, and a number of carriages were vandalised and destroyed.[12]

    Despite being aware of the possibility of trouble, the authorities had failed to take steps to prevent violence breaking out. The Prime Minister, Lord North, had forgotten to issue an order mobilising the small number of Constables in the area. Those that were present in the House of Commons were not strong enough to take on the angry mob. Eventually a detachment of soldiers were summoned, and they dispersed the crowd without violence. Inside the House of Commons, the petition was overwhelmingly dismissed by a vote of 192 to 6.[13]

    Embassies attacked[edit]
    Once the mob around Parliament had dispersed, it seemed to the government that the worst of the disorder was over. However, the same night a crowd gathered and attacked the Roman Catholic Sardinian Embassy Chapel in Lincoln's Inn Fields.[14] Bow Street Runners and soldiers were called out and made thirteen arrests, although most of the ringleaders had managed to escape. The same night the chapel of the Bavarian Embassy in Warwick Street, Soho, was destroyed[15] and crowds caused random violence in streets known to house rich Catholics

    Moorfields[edit]


    The area of Moorfields, one of the poorest parts of the city, was the home of many Irish immigrant workers and had a large area of open ground where crowds could assemble. Despite the appeal of a prominent Irish merchant, James Malo, to the Lord Mayor, Brackley Kennett, no additional protection was offered to the area. During 3 June a crowd had gathered in Moorfields, and by nightfall it began to go on the rampage. Malo's house was amongst the many to be sacked and burned.[16]

    Newgate Prison was attacked and largely destroyed, as was The Clink.[17] This allowed large numbers of prisoners to escape, many of whom were never recaptured. Severe destruction was inflicted on Catholic churches and homes and chapels on the grounds of several embassies, as well as on the Bank of England, Fleet Prison, and the house of the Lord Chief Justice, William Murray, 1st Earl of Mansfield.

    Army response[edit]


    The army was called out on 7 June and given orders to fire upon groups of four or more who refused to disperse. About 285 people were shot dead, with another 200 wounded. Around 450 of the rioters were arrested. Of those arrested, about twenty or thirty were later tried and executed. Gordon was arrested and charged with high treason, but was found not guilty. Brackley Kennett, the Lord Mayor, was convicted of criminal negligence for not reading out the Riot Act and given a £1,000 fine.[18] The military units which dealt with the rioters included the Horse Guards, Foot Guards, Inns of Court Yeomanry, the Honourable Artillery Company, line infantry[19] including the Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey), and militia brought in from neighbouring counties. The defence of the Bank of England was conducted by the 9th (East Norfolk) Regiment of Foot under the command of Thomas Twisleton, 13th Baron Saye and Sele.

     

    , @Anonymous
    The German-sounding names aren't camouflage. Most Polish Jews spoke Yiddish rather than Polish as a first language, and Yiddish has a largely German-based vocabulary. Polish Jews were to a significant extent the descendants of Jews expelled from Germany during the medieval period, and they brought the language with them.
    , @Jack D
    > As much as the American Jews don’t like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland.

    AFAIK, there is no widespread denial of Polish roots. The Germanic names are not an attempt at camouflage at all - first of all, you don't pick your last name (and if you do, usually you change it to something English, not Germany - Kohn becomes Kerry, etc.) and 2nd Jews have Germanic names because they spoke a Germanic language (Yiddish) and were mostly living in German speaking areas at the time that it became the custom for Jews to have surnames (historically, Jews didn't, long after Christians did - they used patronymics instead).

    2nd a lot of American Jews are confused about their Polish roots because (even though they are from places that are in present day Poland) at the time that their ancestors left, Poland did not exist as a country. To the extent they have any paperwork from their ancestors, it shows them as being citizens of Russia or Austria. It's hard to say WHERE some places are because the flags keep changing. My mother was born in the Galician province of Austria, then it was occupied by the Russians in WWI, then it was Poland when she was growing up, then the Russians came in 1939, then the Germans came, then the Russians came back , now it is Ukraine and any day now the Russians may show back up again.

    Also, lots of Ashkenazi Jews are NOT from Poland. There were large Jewish communities in present day Ukraine, Byelorussia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, etc. Around HALF of Ashkenazi Jews were in Poland (3 million out of 6 million killed in the Holocaust) so American Jews have maybe a 50/50 chance of being from Poland.
  113. @Anon
    Traditionally, the Sephardic Jews who could trace their descent from Spain (think Cardozo) and Middle European German speaking Jews and their descendants were the absolute Jewish elite. The Eastern Jews, the ones from Russia and Poland, were considered lower class by the Germans and Sephardi, whatever their accomplishments but this was never blamed on any Gentiles, at least not in my family. It was blamed on the German Jews who were considered intermarried snobs. True Sephardic Jews got a pass - they were held in awe somewhat, a true nobility. A great deal of effort was expended by the children of immigrant Eastern Jews to surpass the accomplishments of the German Jews and rub their faces in it a bit.

    Nu, enough already. When the Jews can hijack a perfectly good antisemitic blog like this, that only proves that our ultimate goal is world domination.

  114. @Ed
    This is true, I read "The Trust" and it was mentioned prominently. I think part of the reason the Sulzbergers are indifferent towards Israel is that they descend from Sephardi.

    The first Sulzberger's mom comes from a family that I think was one of the Jews Stuyvesant let in. An ancestor fought for the Revolution and she was immensely proud of it even joining the Daughters of the Revoluion. She instilled in her sons a fierce patriotism. The other side of the Sulzberger clan descend from German Jews that arrived before the Civil War.

    Many settled in the South, owned slaves and were pro-Confederacy. I honestly don't believe the Sulzberger clan view Israel as anything more than another country.

    The TIMES is not indifferent or neutral to Israel or to anything ‘of concern’ to the Jewish community. It is still drenched with pro-Jewish journalism. The Times may sometimes be critical of Israel but this is a strategy to retain its shrinking credibility and readership.

    The kosher discussion and controlled conversation about Israel or The Holocaust or Anti-Semitism or Terrorism or Nazism any number Jewish-dominated issues and concepts are constantly in the NY Times and framed accordingly. It never ends. The Times is not as ardently pro-Zionist as some Jewish fanatics desire, but that’s all. But this is a strategic necessity. The Times is still anti-white, pro-black and brown, pro-military-intervention, and pro-immigration into the US. The TIMES’ ceaseless efforts to transform America and shore up a Jews Only Israel are still working.

    The paper’s editors and writers are overwhelmingly Jewish and I don’t recall reading that the Times supports BDS or a One State solution to the never-ending Israel/Palestine disaster.

    But we’re supposed to believe that the Schulzbergers are only ‘Synagogue Jews’ and that they don’t believe that the Jews are ‘special’ or chosen? Ha! Their entire family line is all Jewish. Is this just a coincidence? The Times is hopelessly ‘liberal and pro-Zionist and never changing on those subjects.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pinch Sulzberger is half-Jewish. His mother, Barbara Grant, was an Episcopalian.
  115. https://www.yahoo.com/health/what-its-like-to-be-pregnant-and-male-102296400857.html

    The sort of democratic values that America now exports around the world.

    Maybe the intellectual class is okay with this because the focus on the mind has a way of dissolving sexual differences. You don’t have to be masculine or feminine to be a thinker.

  116. @Flip
    The Congregationalists are part of the United Church of Christ.

    The Congregationalists are part of the United Church of Christ.

    Thanks, I see that you’re mostly right. According to Wikipedia, most Congregationalist churches joined the United Church of Christ in the 1950s except for a minority who are still independent to this day.

  117. @dearieme
    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says "After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration"? My memory is that in "The Myth of Rescue" William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.

    Be that as it may, your arithmetic implies that about 60% of German and Austrian Jews were killed, implying in turn that "most of them got out of Europe by 1939" was indeed wrong.

    60% still seems a fair old slaughter to me, but it clearly is far preferable to 100%.

    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says “After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration”? My memory is that in “The Myth of Rescue” William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.

    Anything from WIKIPEDIA comes with an implicit caveat.

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?) has this to say on German Jewish emigration:

    The initial response to the Nazi takeover was a substantial wave of emigration (37,000–38,000), much of it to neighboring European countries (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, and Switzerland). Most of these refugees were later caught by the Nazis after their conquest of western Europe in May 1940.

    During the next two years there was a decline in the number of emigrants.

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,

    The events of 1938 caused a dramatic increase in Jewish emigration. The German annexation of Austria in March, the increase in personal assaults on Jews during the spring and summer, the nationwide Kristallnacht (“Night of Broken Glass”) pogrom in November, and the subsequent seizure of Jewish-owned property all caused a flood of visa applications. Although finding a destination proved difficult, about 36,000 Jews left Germany and Austria in 1938 and 77,000 in 1939.

    By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

    At the end of 1939, about 202,000 Jews remained in Germany and 57,000 in annexed Austria, many of them elderly. By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468

    And here is their estimate for the death toll:

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469

    The USHMM gives the same figure for the 1933 German Jewish pop (522,000):

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.
     
    Yes, and about 65,000 Austrian Jews (who were culturally "German") of the 250,000 living in Austria in 1933 were murdered. So even if we round up we get 65+180=250,000 deaths out of 770,000, or about 32% of German Jews died in the Holocaust. Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.
    , @dearieme
    "The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?)": I'm old enough to be sceptical of any source. But it seems unlikely that such a source would underestimate the scale of the murder of German Jews, so you have persuaded me.
  118. @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    In Thomas Sowell’s Ethnic America chapter on Jews, he makes the point that uptown Jews (German Jews) resented the downtown newcomers (Russian/Polish Jews) and that the derogatory slurs … originated from German Jews toward Russian/Polish Jews, and not from WASPS. That would actually make sense since WASPS really didn’t have contact at all with downtown Jews (initially) and hardly palled around with uptown German Jews to begin with.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    No one hates lower class whites more than upper class whites. You are always more free to talk trash (even call them trash) about your own.
  119. @SFG
    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change...

    Nah, no, the Puritans became the Church of Christ, which if you’ve ever watched Duck Dynasty, is very conservative leaning, actually. The United Church of Christ is an aberrant version of Church of Christ and is actually on its way to cult status. Bottom line: The Church of Christ many if not most of its congregations are actually quite conservative.

    Also from the Puritans were the Congregationalists which technically still survive today and are not liberal at all.

    Presbyterian USA is US’s second largest Presbyterian church, is reformed in theology and conservative.

  120. @Peter Akuleyev

    Use of Yiddish would nearly always earn the epithet. To him, a speaker of Hochdeutsch, it was an uncouth dialect, fit only for the kitchen, not for civilized discourse.
     
    Yes, that is one reason why German Jewish Zionists like Herzl were so eager to push for Hebrew as the cultural language of the Jews, despite the very rich Yiddish literary and cultural life that had developed in the previous century. The Zionists wanted to eradicate the embarassment of Eastern European shtetl culture almost as badly as the Nazis did. The result is that Israel has a fairly sterile, shallow culture compared to the Yiddish culture that thrived in Poland and New York City before WWII.

    Finish the sentence-concept. German Jews of the 18/19th century also made a conscious effort not to learn and speak tons of Yiddish but to learn and speak and conduct their religious services in German instead. The Reform Movement came from German Jews as well as the phrase “Germans of the Jewish Faith.”

    But Yiddish or German in the home? That’s another way you can tell which Jewish family tree in America one tended to come from.

    If your ancestors spoke Yiddish in the home, chances are your US tree originated from the Ellis Island generations.

    If your ancestors spoke German in the home, its most likely your family migrated much much earlier (17, 18, and early 19 centuries) to America.

  121. @anon 1
    Let's get some numbers straight. According to Wikipedia, in 1933 there were only 522,000 Jews in Germany, about 200,000 in Austria, and more than 3.5 million in Poland. Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century. As much as the American Jews don't like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland

    Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century.

    I didn’t see much evidence for “slaughter” in the 19th century; the only large scale anti-Jewish violence mentioned in the article were the Hep-Hep Riots (August to October 1819), and no figures are given for deaths. Here’s the WIKIPEDIA description of the events:

    The riots began on 2 August 1819 in Würzburg. After several days troops were called in. The Jewish population fled the city and spent several days in tents in the vicinity. No Jews were killed during the riots in Würzburg.

    The riots swept through other Bavarian towns and villages, then spread to Bamberg, Bayreuth, Darmstadt, Karlsruhe, Mannheim, Frankfurt, Koblenz, Cologne and other cities along the Rhine, and as far north as Bremen, Hamburg, and Lübeck.[10]

    In some towns, the police appeared too late or stood by idly while the mob raged through the streets. In towns where the militia arrived promptly, the riots were put down relatively quickly. In Heidelberg the police were tardy in their response, but two professors and their students took the law into their hands and prevented a bloody pogrom. They restrained the culprits and made citizen’s arrests. With the exception of Heidelberg, townspeople generally remained passive bystanders.[11]

    In several cities, members of the bourgeoisie, students, and even university professors were among the instigators. Ludwig Robert, a Jewish playwright who recently converted to Christianity, gave an eyewitness account of the rioting:

    … I walked all the way to the Waldhorngasse. There I caught sight of the commandant of the city, General Bruckner, on horseback, and as there was still sporadic shouting, he told his patrol: “Let the bastards shout away if they insist, but the minute they do something dumb, let them have it!” Everyone in town was standing at their open windows, and I went back slowly, close to the buildings, so that I could hear what was being said and assess the mood.

    Children were playing in front of the doorsteps, laughing and giggling; they told about the day’s events with childish interest. But none of the men or women admonished them or even engaged them in serious conversation. And there was even less chance of seeing a priest, even though in my opinion this was truly where they ought to have been, as teachers of the religion that holds love in such esteem.

    How corrupt people really are and how inadequate their sense of law and justice not to mention their love of humanity – is clear from the fact that there was no indignation expressed at these incidents, not even in the official papers… The townspeople are said to have been angry with Bruckner for closing the taverns right away. They threatened to tear him off his horse.”
    —[12]
    After three days of pogrom in Karlsruhe, the infantry was called in and cannons were deployed in the streets. The grand duke of Baden demonstrated his solidarity with the Jews of his capital by taking up residence at the home of a prominent Karlsruhe Jew. After this, calm was restored.[13]

    This sounds nasty but it doesn’t sound like mass slaughter. Frankly, the anti-Catholic Gordon Riots (1780) in England sound worse, at least in terms of deaths:

    March on Parliament[edit]
    On 2 June 1780 a huge crowd, estimated at 40,000 to 60,000 strong, assembled and marched on the Houses of Parliament. Many carried flags and banners proclaiming “No Popery”, and most wore blue cockades which had become the symbol of their movement. As they marched, their numbers swelled. They attempted to force their way into the House of Commons, but without success. Gordon, petition in hand, and wearing in his hat the blue cockade of the Protestant Association, entered the Commons and presented the petition. Outside, the situation quickly got out of hand and a riot erupted. Members of the House of Lords were attacked as they arrived, and a number of carriages were vandalised and destroyed.[12]

    Despite being aware of the possibility of trouble, the authorities had failed to take steps to prevent violence breaking out. The Prime Minister, Lord North, had forgotten to issue an order mobilising the small number of Constables in the area. Those that were present in the House of Commons were not strong enough to take on the angry mob. Eventually a detachment of soldiers were summoned, and they dispersed the crowd without violence. Inside the House of Commons, the petition was overwhelmingly dismissed by a vote of 192 to 6.[13]

    Embassies attacked[edit]
    Once the mob around Parliament had dispersed, it seemed to the government that the worst of the disorder was over. However, the same night a crowd gathered and attacked the Roman Catholic Sardinian Embassy Chapel in Lincoln’s Inn Fields.[14] Bow Street Runners and soldiers were called out and made thirteen arrests, although most of the ringleaders had managed to escape. The same night the chapel of the Bavarian Embassy in Warwick Street, Soho, was destroyed[15] and crowds caused random violence in streets known to house rich Catholics

    Moorfields[edit]

    The area of Moorfields, one of the poorest parts of the city, was the home of many Irish immigrant workers and had a large area of open ground where crowds could assemble. Despite the appeal of a prominent Irish merchant, James Malo, to the Lord Mayor, Brackley Kennett, no additional protection was offered to the area. During 3 June a crowd had gathered in Moorfields, and by nightfall it began to go on the rampage. Malo’s house was amongst the many to be sacked and burned.[16]

    Newgate Prison was attacked and largely destroyed, as was The Clink.[17] This allowed large numbers of prisoners to escape, many of whom were never recaptured. Severe destruction was inflicted on Catholic churches and homes and chapels on the grounds of several embassies, as well as on the Bank of England, Fleet Prison, and the house of the Lord Chief Justice, William Murray, 1st Earl of Mansfield.

    Army response[edit]

    The army was called out on 7 June and given orders to fire upon groups of four or more who refused to disperse. About 285 people were shot dead, with another 200 wounded. Around 450 of the rioters were arrested. Of those arrested, about twenty or thirty were later tried and executed. Gordon was arrested and charged with high treason, but was found not guilty. Brackley Kennett, the Lord Mayor, was convicted of criminal negligence for not reading out the Riot Act and given a £1,000 fine.[18] The military units which dealt with the rioters included the Horse Guards, Foot Guards, Inns of Court Yeomanry, the Honourable Artillery Company, line infantry[19] including the Queen’s Royal Regiment (West Surrey), and militia brought in from neighbouring counties. The defence of the Bank of England was conducted by the 9th (East Norfolk) Regiment of Foot under the command of Thomas Twisleton, 13th Baron Saye and Sele.

  122. I never knew the depth of this divide between German and Russian Jews. Could this be one of the reasons why Prof. Paul Gottfried is held in such low standing?

    • Replies: @Steve (not Sailer)
    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War. Fraternities, country clubs, synagogues were no longer separated, after the 1950s, as they were before the War. Why? First, the US Russian Jews educated themselves, if not to German standards, then to very high US standards. English replaced Yiddish. The children of the immigrants did not speak comically. They dressed in accord with US standards, played US sports, listened to US music. They replaced the Jewish culture of Easter Europe. Secondly, US Russian Jews became wealthy - if not in the immigrant generation then in the one that followed. So the German Jews dropped their "objections" you might say. Today most Jews do not even realize that such a distinction ever existed.
  123. In all this chatter about German and E European Jews nobody seems to have noticed that Saban was born in Egypt.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    And he married an American Lutheran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Saban
  124. @BB753
    I can see some Jews not being crazy about Israel. First of all, Diaspora Jews despise settled Jews. Living among gentiles has become second-nature for the majority of Jews. Diaspora Jews in their view, are the real Jews, while only failed and dumb Jews would stoop so low as to actually build their own country. Working the land, doing menial trades is despicable for them.
    The second reason is that Israel is bad PR for Jews worldwide. There Jews aren't victims, as they like to portray themselves, on the contrary Israeli Jews run an apartheid state with an iron fist. It's bad for business. All for the sake of their loser third cousins. After all, Israel is a lousy country in a bad neighbourhood. Just leave, you morons! Even Canada is nicer. Only the weather is nice in Israel.
    Three, smarter Jews can sense a losing business venture. Israel was doomed from its inception. A bad idea. Get your money elsewhere, Schlomo! Sooner or later you'll be overrun by the filty Arabs and whatnot that trickle down from Africa.

    It would be interesting to see if most of modern Israel’s Jewish population is either Sephardic or Ashkenazi. Note: I didn’t say the original founders or the leaders. I said the majority of the Jewish population.

    Because most US and European Jews are Ashkenazi. Actually, worldwide the Ashkenazi far outnumber the Sephardic in total numbers but since Spain and Portugal are somewhat close to the Middle East distance wise, wonder if the nation’s population totals aren’t evenly distributed unlike say, in the US, where most Jews are Ashkenazi.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Mizrahi (i.e. native Middle Eastern) Jews and Sephardic Jews together make up slightly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population. If it hadn't been for the large influx of Russian Jews over the past 30 years, they would account for significantly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population.
    , @Jack D
    Too bad that there is no easy way to find this kind of information out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Since this is obviously too hard for you, it's about 50/50, roughly.
  125. Adelson hates blue collar unions. A huge chunk of the cash flow generated by the Times goes to the well-paid printers and drivers. Adelson would likely end the Times as a print and deliver publication and recast it solely as a webzine. In any case, the Times is doomed. It will go the way of the Washington Post, Time and Newsweek. For the eyeballs delivered, print advertising rates are still way overpriced compared to digital media.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Have you looked at print ads lately? I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year, and the ads were fascinating and beautiful, and that's on pulp paper. There were interesting ads for things I'd never Googled for but now that you showed me a large, attractive ad for them I kinda wanted to buy them. Magazine ads on slick paper are much more attractive than web ads. I don't know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.
  126. @Daniel H
    Adelson hates blue collar unions. A huge chunk of the cash flow generated by the Times goes to the well-paid printers and drivers. Adelson would likely end the Times as a print and deliver publication and recast it solely as a webzine. In any case, the Times is doomed. It will go the way of the Washington Post, Time and Newsweek. For the eyeballs delivered, print advertising rates are still way overpriced compared to digital media.

    Have you looked at print ads lately? I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year, and the ads were fascinating and beautiful, and that’s on pulp paper. There were interesting ads for things I’d never Googled for but now that you showed me a large, attractive ad for them I kinda wanted to buy them. Magazine ads on slick paper are much more attractive than web ads. I don’t know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>>I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year....

    Pretty much summarizes the problem for print. I haven't bought a newspaper in over 3 years, and I don't have digital subscriptions to any newspaper either.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Next time the FT has a "How To Spend It" glossy magazine insert on a Saturday, grab a copy. It's worth the $3. That section has some beautiful ads, and often a travel advertorial with some great photos. There are also a couple of interesting editorial features, one in the front called "The Aesthete" which is sort of like their version of the NYT Magazine's Domains feature (if that still exists), where some famous and or rich person tells you what's in their fridge, where they had their best recent meal, etc. And there's one in the back called "Perfect Weekend", where famous person describes what they do on a typical weekend.

    A recent Perfect Weekend featured Wolfgang Puck in Los Angeles; another featured Harvey Weinstein's fashion designer wife in Connecticut.

    Another source of great ads is Monocle Magazine, which I've never spent the $10 or whatever for, but like to leaf through at Barnes & Noble.

    , @Jack D
    Maybe print ads still have greater impact per impression than digital, but on a cost per eyeball basis, print is way overpriced compared to digital. Does a print ad make 5x the impression that a digital one seen by the same person does? Because it would have to in order to account for the price difference at current rates. My guess is that the difference in pricing exists for historic reasons and that if we were starting fresh, no one would pay 5 x as much for a print ad (on a cost/impression basis) and eventually advertisers won't be willing to do so anymore. In the war between tradition and sabermetrics, sabermetrics wins in the long run.
  127. @Mr. Anon
    "Eliezer Ben-Yehuda says:

    @Gary Seven

    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens."

    Being an "American citizen" doesn't mean anything anymore. Clearly, it doesn't mean anything to people like Adelson and Saban.

    I have always thought of Jews as urbane, cultured, and sophisticated: Gustav Mahler, Sigmund Freud, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein. They were always people who were smarter, better educated, and wider read than most gentiles. I know that they were all the descendents of western European Jews, but still, that was always my impression of them. Do Jews have the equivalent concept of "white trash" among their own people? The likes of Adelson and Saban seem like crude caricatures from the Stetl. Aren't there at least a few Jews who are embarrassed by crass vulgarians such as them?

    Read Our Crowd for a description of Jewish life and characteristics in a prior era. One theme deals with older, established German Jews relative to ‘newcomers’. Variations on that theme follow other immigrant groups.

  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.

    Yeah, all of it seems schlocky and scamming. But Google and Facebook are essentially advertising firms (and big government surveillance contractors), so some companies must believe it is the way to go.

    Btw, Google had hype stories in tech media since 2009 regarding Google Glass. In 2013 it had limited release and very limited success if at all. Big flop. But the tech industry is simply a financial industry with a lot of endless techno-BS hype. Except, of course, for Steve Jobs.

  129. @iSteveFan
    I never knew the depth of this divide between German and Russian Jews. Could this be one of the reasons why Prof. Paul Gottfried is held in such low standing?

    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War. Fraternities, country clubs, synagogues were no longer separated, after the 1950s, as they were before the War. Why? First, the US Russian Jews educated themselves, if not to German standards, then to very high US standards. English replaced Yiddish. The children of the immigrants did not speak comically. They dressed in accord with US standards, played US sports, listened to US music. They replaced the Jewish culture of Easter Europe. Secondly, US Russian Jews became wealthy – if not in the immigrant generation then in the one that followed. So the German Jews dropped their “objections” you might say. Today most Jews do not even realize that such a distinction ever existed.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Stephen Birmingham implies the top German Jewish golf club in Westchester County, the Century Country Club, let in their first Russian Jew, Dr. Tarnower of Scarsdale Diet notoriety, in 1948. But there is a little weasel wording about this so it's probably safer to say that Dr. T was one of the first Russian Jews admitted into this all-Jewish club a couple of generations after it opened. A lot of times The club is usually said to date from the very late 19th Century.

    I was wrong that Bill Clinton was a member at Century. As far as I can tell, Clinton is a member at Trump National Westchester, which is owned by The Donald.

    , @Peter Akuleyev

    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War.
     
    There are still some remnants - Hasidism is very much a traditional Eastern European Jewish sect, and there is still a fair amount of hostility between the Hasids and the assimilated Jewish population.
  130. @Mr. Anon
    "Eliezer Ben-Yehuda says:

    @Gary Seven

    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens."

    Being an "American citizen" doesn't mean anything anymore. Clearly, it doesn't mean anything to people like Adelson and Saban.

    I have always thought of Jews as urbane, cultured, and sophisticated: Gustav Mahler, Sigmund Freud, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein. They were always people who were smarter, better educated, and wider read than most gentiles. I know that they were all the descendents of western European Jews, but still, that was always my impression of them. Do Jews have the equivalent concept of "white trash" among their own people? The likes of Adelson and Saban seem like crude caricatures from the Stetl. Aren't there at least a few Jews who are embarrassed by crass vulgarians such as them?

    Haim Saban’s is an Egyptian Jew, not an Ashkenazi from the shtetl. Aaron Copland’s ancestors were Lithuanian Jews, and Leonard Bernstein’s ancestors were Ukrainian Jews. All of them were likely to have lived in shtetlach. Many cultured, educated American Jews have Eastern European Jewish antecedents.

  131. @IBC

    Oh, addendum: the Puritans eventually turned into Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and Unitarians, all on the left side of the Christian spectrum today. Funny how things change…
     
    I think the Presbyterians were similar in some ways but that they have a different origin starting in Scotland. You're right about the other denominations except for the omission of the Congregationalists. They're probably the most direct descendants of the Puritan mainstream. You could even make a case for the Christian Scientists as distant descendants and maybe even the Spiritualists. As you probably know, Unitarians have the reputation of being the most lefty-liberal these days. They still seem to have some influence in places like Boston. Also, Methodism, the most popular mainstream Protestant denomination in the US, was an 18th century offshoot of the Church of England, i.e. Anglican Church.

    Many UK residents over the years have categorized some religious people by country:

    Anglican / C of E – English
    Presbyterian – Scottish
    Methodist – Welsh
    Catholic – Irish

    While that is a generalization, and overall observance has been in a secular downtrend, there remains a grain of truth.

  132. Adelson became a wealthy man building convention centers and casinos in Las Vegas. But he got enough wealth to buy and sell the GOP from his casino investments in Macau. His alleged allegience to Israel is a red herring. Shouldn’t we worry that the money financing the GOP primaries all comes from the People’s Republic of China? And that Xi Jinping could shut that money down with 1 phone call?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Shouldn’t we worry that the money financing the GOP primaries all comes from the People’s Republic of China? And that Xi Jinping could shut that money down with 1 phone call?"

    Good point. So whoever Adelson favors in 2016 should be called The Manchurian Candidate?

  133. @Mark Green
    The TIMES is not indifferent or neutral to Israel or to anything 'of concern' to the Jewish community. It is still drenched with pro-Jewish journalism. The Times may sometimes be critical of Israel but this is a strategy to retain its shrinking credibility and readership.

    The kosher discussion and controlled conversation about Israel or The Holocaust or Anti-Semitism or Terrorism or Nazism any number Jewish-dominated issues and concepts are constantly in the NY Times and framed accordingly. It never ends. The Times is not as ardently pro-Zionist as some Jewish fanatics desire, but that's all. But this is a strategic necessity. The Times is still anti-white, pro-black and brown, pro-military-intervention, and pro-immigration into the US. The TIMES' ceaseless efforts to transform America and shore up a Jews Only Israel are still working.

    The paper's editors and writers are overwhelmingly Jewish and I don't recall reading that the Times supports BDS or a One State solution to the never-ending Israel/Palestine disaster.

    But we're supposed to believe that the Schulzbergers are only 'Synagogue Jews' and that they don't believe that the Jews are 'special' or chosen? Ha! Their entire family line is all Jewish. Is this just a coincidence? The Times is hopelessly 'liberal and pro-Zionist and never changing on those subjects.

    Pinch Sulzberger is half-Jewish. His mother, Barbara Grant, was an Episcopalian.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Actually, that makes him not Jewish at all, since Judaism, or at least religious Judaism, determines religion on a matrilineal basis (on the assumption that paternity is difficult to determine). If your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish, if she isn't, you ain't (unless you convert).
  134. @Ezra
    Adelson became a wealthy man building convention centers and casinos in Las Vegas. But he got enough wealth to buy and sell the GOP from his casino investments in Macau. His alleged allegience to Israel is a red herring. Shouldn't we worry that the money financing the GOP primaries all comes from the People's Republic of China? And that Xi Jinping could shut that money down with 1 phone call?

    “Shouldn’t we worry that the money financing the GOP primaries all comes from the People’s Republic of China? And that Xi Jinping could shut that money down with 1 phone call?”

    Good point. So whoever Adelson favors in 2016 should be called The Manchurian Candidate?

  135. @Steve Sailer
    Have you looked at print ads lately? I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year, and the ads were fascinating and beautiful, and that's on pulp paper. There were interesting ads for things I'd never Googled for but now that you showed me a large, attractive ad for them I kinda wanted to buy them. Magazine ads on slick paper are much more attractive than web ads. I don't know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.

    >>>I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year….

    Pretty much summarizes the problem for print. I haven’t bought a newspaper in over 3 years, and I don’t have digital subscriptions to any newspaper either.

  136. On the marriage gop.

    Does marriage make women more conservative or do conservative women marry more?

  137. @Steve (not Sailer)
    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War. Fraternities, country clubs, synagogues were no longer separated, after the 1950s, as they were before the War. Why? First, the US Russian Jews educated themselves, if not to German standards, then to very high US standards. English replaced Yiddish. The children of the immigrants did not speak comically. They dressed in accord with US standards, played US sports, listened to US music. They replaced the Jewish culture of Easter Europe. Secondly, US Russian Jews became wealthy - if not in the immigrant generation then in the one that followed. So the German Jews dropped their "objections" you might say. Today most Jews do not even realize that such a distinction ever existed.

    Stephen Birmingham implies the top German Jewish golf club in Westchester County, the Century Country Club, let in their first Russian Jew, Dr. Tarnower of Scarsdale Diet notoriety, in 1948. But there is a little weasel wording about this so it’s probably safer to say that Dr. T was one of the first Russian Jews admitted into this all-Jewish club a couple of generations after it opened. A lot of times The club is usually said to date from the very late 19th Century.

    I was wrong that Bill Clinton was a member at Century. As far as I can tell, Clinton is a member at Trump National Westchester, which is owned by The Donald.

  138. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    defensive and slow? referring to carlos.

  139. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    It would be interesting to see if most of modern Israel's Jewish population is either Sephardic or Ashkenazi. Note: I didn't say the original founders or the leaders. I said the majority of the Jewish population.

    Because most US and European Jews are Ashkenazi. Actually, worldwide the Ashkenazi far outnumber the Sephardic in total numbers but since Spain and Portugal are somewhat close to the Middle East distance wise, wonder if the nation's population totals aren't evenly distributed unlike say, in the US, where most Jews are Ashkenazi.

    Mizrahi (i.e. native Middle Eastern) Jews and Sephardic Jews together make up slightly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population. If it hadn’t been for the large influx of Russian Jews over the past 30 years, they would account for significantly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Right, and a lot of the Russian "Jews" aren't fully Jewish (or sometimes not Jewish at all), and a lot of the younger generation is intermarried with Sephardim, so if you are talking about purebred Ashkenazi Jews (especially ones who aren't Hasidic) like Adelson they are a shrinking (dying) minority (as they are for that matter in the US).
  140. @Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
    >> The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn't be independent if there had not been French (and other European "mahal-nikkim") aid.

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.

    America wouldn’t be independent if there had not been French (and other European “mahal-nikkim”) aid.

    Good work on the helpful examples of foreigners having undue influence on the country.

  141. @anon 1
    Let's get some numbers straight. According to Wikipedia, in 1933 there were only 522,000 Jews in Germany, about 200,000 in Austria, and more than 3.5 million in Poland. Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century. As much as the American Jews don't like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland

    The German-sounding names aren’t camouflage. Most Polish Jews spoke Yiddish rather than Polish as a first language, and Yiddish has a largely German-based vocabulary. Polish Jews were to a significant extent the descendants of Jews expelled from Germany during the medieval period, and they brought the language with them.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @143 - Galician Jews, who are the ancestors of a large percentage of American Jews, were all forced to take German last names by the Habsburgs when they took Galicia from Poland at the end of the 18th century.
  142. @International Jew
    "How is it that some senile oligarch can say(with a straight face) that US foreign policy should be to nuke Iran,"

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years. It still is formally, except our resolve to pursue it has weakened along with -- not coincidentally -- our instinct for our own national preservation. To the Obama brain, "What right do we have to deny other countries nuclear weapons?" is persuasive, and in the same way that "What right do we have to live here and deny it to Mexicans?" is persuasive.

    This shouldn't have to be Israel's problem. It just looks that way because Israel is led by people who don't anguish over those naïve dilemmas.

    The US could wreck Iran's nuclear program at low cost -- a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they'd even do that; they can't afford it. There's no need for "boots on the ground", or nation-building that's silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea's nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won't be a pretty one.

    The US could wreck Iran’s nuclear program at low cost — a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they’d even do that; they can’t afford it. There’s no need for “boots on the ground”, or nation-building that’s silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea’s nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won’t be a pretty one

    Even so, it is not our business. Let Israel take the risk for Israel’s own belligerence.

    America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house

    • Replies: @Jack D
    >America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house.

    That worked out really well for us in the '30s. If your neighbor's house is on fire and you have termites, do you call the exterminator first or the fire dept.?
  143. @anony-mouse
    In all this chatter about German and E European Jews nobody seems to have noticed that Saban was born in Egypt.

    And he married an American Lutheran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Saban

  144. @ Yojimbo/ Zaitochi

    Indeed, it doesn’t help that over half of Israel Jews aren’t ashkenazi but rather sephardic or mizrahi. Sephardic Jews fled to Holland, England and the Ottoman Empire after being kicked out of Spain and Portugal. Many Balkan Jews ( thus Sephardic) migrated to Austria after the Austrian Empire took over former Ottoman areas. Which explains the riddle of German speaking Sephardics like Elias Canetti.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I slogged through the first ~150 pages of Canetti's huge, 3-volume autobiography (he was almost like the Jewish Maya Angelou, in that he spent so much time writing about himself). He grew up initially in what is now Bulgaria, IIRC (he writes that people there would say they were going to Europe when they traveled to Austria). Then he moved to England due to his father going into business there, then his father dropped dead and he and his mother moved to Switzerland. I think he was about 10 at this point. That's when he started learning German, because he was going to go to school in Austria, I think.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Caneti's family tree most likely has Ashkenazi.

    The vast majority of US Jews are Ashkenazi. Most of Western European Jews have always been Ashkenazi dating back several dozen centuries. Ashkenazi already were well established in England and Holland before Sephardic Jews arrived.

    In the US, again, the vast majority of Jews are Ashkenazi. If broken down by IQ, wonder which subsection/sect would tend to have the higher IQ?
  145. @Anonymous
    The German-sounding names aren't camouflage. Most Polish Jews spoke Yiddish rather than Polish as a first language, and Yiddish has a largely German-based vocabulary. Polish Jews were to a significant extent the descendants of Jews expelled from Germany during the medieval period, and they brought the language with them.

    @143 – Galician Jews, who are the ancestors of a large percentage of American Jews, were all forced to take German last names by the Habsburgs when they took Galicia from Poland at the end of the 18th century.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Correction - they were forced to take last names period. Lots chose exclusively Jewish names (Cohen and Levy and Israel and Katz and Shapiro, etc.) or the names of their towns, occupations, etc. There are some stories that the "fancy" Germanic names were like vanity plates, available at an extra charge. These were the "Gold" and "Silver" and "Rose(n)" and "berg" (Mountain) and "stein" (stone) , etc. type names.
  146. “Anonymous says:

    Haim Saban’s is an Egyptian Jew, not an Ashkenazi from the shtetl. Aaron Copland’s ancestors were Lithuanian Jews, and Leonard Bernstein’s ancestors were Ukrainian Jews. All of them were likely to have lived in shtetlach. Many cultured, educated American Jews have Eastern European Jewish antecedents.”

    I am aware of that. I have known several Ashkenazis who were educated, cultured people. My question still stands. Are Jews embarrassed by vulgar dreck-peddlars like Adelson and Saban, who – by dint of their enormous fortunes – claim to speak for them? I’d like to think that at least some Jews are.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    If Saban and Adelson are to be considered such pariahs what about Bernie Maddof? He certainly has done some things in his public life that would make many Jews embarrassed.

    If we're going to be honest, how about popular radio talk show host Michael Savage? At times he is consciously doing a stereotypical schtick of pretending to be just off the boat and into the schtetl, even speaking Yiddish phrases from time to time.

    He is of Russian/German heritage and thus quite Ashkenazi and yet his overbearing boisterous mannerisms can be quite grating. Granted, most of this is schtick for his audience.

    One time he played an early episode of nearly twenty years ago when he was just starting out in radio and his voice contained very little of an accent (NY or something else). So he knows what he is doing when he plays to that section of his audience.
    , @IBC
    Take a look at:

    http://mondoweiss.net/

    From its "about" page:

    This blog is co-edited by Philip Weiss and Adam Horowitz. Weiss is 56 and lives in New York state. Horowitz is 39 and lives in Atlanta.

    We maintain this blog because of 9/11, Iraq, Gaza, the Nakba, the struggling people of Israel and Palestine, and our Jewish background.

    This site aims to build a diverse community, with posts from many authors. The views of these authors do not necessarily represent the views of Horowitz and Weiss.
    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss#sthash.7lAEEetH.dpuf
     
  147. @syonredux

    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says “After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration”? My memory is that in “The Myth of Rescue” William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.
     
    Anything from WIKIPEDIA comes with an implicit caveat.

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?) has this to say on German Jewish emigration:

    The initial response to the Nazi takeover was a substantial wave of emigration (37,000–38,000), much of it to neighboring European countries (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, and Switzerland). Most of these refugees were later caught by the Nazis after their conquest of western Europe in May 1940.
     

    During the next two years there was a decline in the number of emigrants.
     

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     

    The events of 1938 caused a dramatic increase in Jewish emigration. The German annexation of Austria in March, the increase in personal assaults on Jews during the spring and summer, the nationwide Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom in November, and the subsequent seizure of Jewish-owned property all caused a flood of visa applications. Although finding a destination proved difficult, about 36,000 Jews left Germany and Austria in 1938 and 77,000 in 1939.
     

    By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

     


    At the end of 1939, about 202,000 Jews remained in Germany and 57,000 in annexed Austria, many of them elderly. By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000.
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468


    And here is their estimate for the death toll:

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469

    The USHMM gives the same figure for the 1933 German Jewish pop (522,000):

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.

    Yes, and about 65,000 Austrian Jews (who were culturally “German”) of the 250,000 living in Austria in 1933 were murdered. So even if we round up we get 65+180=250,000 deaths out of 770,000, or about 32% of German Jews died in the Holocaust. Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Cultural destruction isn't exactly the same as human destruction. Germany has Jews today, but how much of pre-war German culture survives? Eric Warburg went back to Germany after the war, but how many others did? Aren't most Jews in Germany today emigres from Russia?
    , @syonredux

    Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.
     
    Absolutely; one of the key points that Snyder kept making in his Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin is that the Holocaust was primarily an Eastern European event. That was where the bulk of the people who were killed lived. That was where the majority of the killing was done.Western Europe was peripheral.
  148. @Steve (not Sailer)
    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War. Fraternities, country clubs, synagogues were no longer separated, after the 1950s, as they were before the War. Why? First, the US Russian Jews educated themselves, if not to German standards, then to very high US standards. English replaced Yiddish. The children of the immigrants did not speak comically. They dressed in accord with US standards, played US sports, listened to US music. They replaced the Jewish culture of Easter Europe. Secondly, US Russian Jews became wealthy - if not in the immigrant generation then in the one that followed. So the German Jews dropped their "objections" you might say. Today most Jews do not even realize that such a distinction ever existed.

    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War.

    There are still some remnants – Hasidism is very much a traditional Eastern European Jewish sect, and there is still a fair amount of hostility between the Hasids and the assimilated Jewish population.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The only problem is that "the assimilated Jewish population" is itself mostly of Eastern European origin. German-American Jews, who have been a minority since the great Ellis Island wave of immigration, basically no longer exist as a separate community.
  149. “International Jew says:

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years…..”

    Really? So, when did we pressure Israel to give up theirs?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    JFK did. LBJ didn't.
  150. @Mr. Anon
    "International Jew says:

    Nuclear Nonproliferation was US policy for many years....."

    Really? So, when did we pressure Israel to give up theirs?

    JFK did. LBJ didn’t.

  151. @BB753
    @ Yojimbo/ Zaitochi

    Indeed, it doesn't help that over half of Israel Jews aren't ashkenazi but rather sephardic or mizrahi. Sephardic Jews fled to Holland, England and the Ottoman Empire after being kicked out of Spain and Portugal. Many Balkan Jews ( thus Sephardic) migrated to Austria after the Austrian Empire took over former Ottoman areas. Which explains the riddle of German speaking Sephardics like Elias Canetti.

    I slogged through the first ~150 pages of Canetti’s huge, 3-volume autobiography (he was almost like the Jewish Maya Angelou, in that he spent so much time writing about himself). He grew up initially in what is now Bulgaria, IIRC (he writes that people there would say they were going to Europe when they traveled to Austria). Then he moved to England due to his father going into business there, then his father dropped dead and he and his mother moved to Switzerland. I think he was about 10 at this point. That’s when he started learning German, because he was going to go to school in Austria, I think.

  152. @Peter Akuleyev

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.
     
    Yes, and about 65,000 Austrian Jews (who were culturally "German") of the 250,000 living in Austria in 1933 were murdered. So even if we round up we get 65+180=250,000 deaths out of 770,000, or about 32% of German Jews died in the Holocaust. Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.

    Cultural destruction isn’t exactly the same as human destruction. Germany has Jews today, but how much of pre-war German culture survives? Eric Warburg went back to Germany after the war, but how many others did? Aren’t most Jews in Germany today emigres from Russia?

    • Replies: @Karl
    >>> Aren’t most Jews in Germany today emigres from Russia?


    there's actually plenty who are native Israelis. Especially Berlin.
  153. @Steve Sailer
    Have you looked at print ads lately? I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year, and the ads were fascinating and beautiful, and that's on pulp paper. There were interesting ads for things I'd never Googled for but now that you showed me a large, attractive ad for them I kinda wanted to buy them. Magazine ads on slick paper are much more attractive than web ads. I don't know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.

    Next time the FT has a “How To Spend It” glossy magazine insert on a Saturday, grab a copy. It’s worth the $3. That section has some beautiful ads, and often a travel advertorial with some great photos. There are also a couple of interesting editorial features, one in the front called “The Aesthete” which is sort of like their version of the NYT Magazine’s Domains feature (if that still exists), where some famous and or rich person tells you what’s in their fridge, where they had their best recent meal, etc. And there’s one in the back called “Perfect Weekend”, where famous person describes what they do on a typical weekend.

    A recent Perfect Weekend featured Wolfgang Puck in Los Angeles; another featured Harvey Weinstein’s fashion designer wife in Connecticut.

    Another source of great ads is Monocle Magazine, which I’ve never spent the $10 or whatever for, but like to leaf through at Barnes & Noble.

  154. @syonredux

    Should I believe Wikipedia when it says “After that, the British Mandatory authorities imposed limits on Jewish immigration, which led to clandestine illegal immigration”? My memory is that in “The Myth of Rescue” William Rubinstein says that there were spare immigration permits for Palestine every year before the war.

    He also points to large flows of Jews out of Germany in (I think) 1933, then a return by many, than another outflow in 1938. Unless one were careful, one could end up double-counting outflows.
     
    Anything from WIKIPEDIA comes with an implicit caveat.

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?) has this to say on German Jewish emigration:

    The initial response to the Nazi takeover was a substantial wave of emigration (37,000–38,000), much of it to neighboring European countries (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, and Switzerland). Most of these refugees were later caught by the Nazis after their conquest of western Europe in May 1940.
     

    During the next two years there was a decline in the number of emigrants.
     

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     

    The events of 1938 caused a dramatic increase in Jewish emigration. The German annexation of Austria in March, the increase in personal assaults on Jews during the spring and summer, the nationwide Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom in November, and the subsequent seizure of Jewish-owned property all caused a flood of visa applications. Although finding a destination proved difficult, about 36,000 Jews left Germany and Austria in 1938 and 77,000 in 1939.
     

    By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

     


    At the end of 1939, about 202,000 Jews remained in Germany and 57,000 in annexed Austria, many of them elderly. By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000.
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468


    And here is their estimate for the death toll:

    In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 160,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust,
     
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469

    The USHMM gives the same figure for the 1933 German Jewish pop (522,000):

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.

    “The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (a theoretically better source?)”: I’m old enough to be sceptical of any source. But it seems unlikely that such a source would underestimate the scale of the murder of German Jews, so you have persuaded me.

  155. @BB753
    @ Yojimbo/ Zaitochi

    Indeed, it doesn't help that over half of Israel Jews aren't ashkenazi but rather sephardic or mizrahi. Sephardic Jews fled to Holland, England and the Ottoman Empire after being kicked out of Spain and Portugal. Many Balkan Jews ( thus Sephardic) migrated to Austria after the Austrian Empire took over former Ottoman areas. Which explains the riddle of German speaking Sephardics like Elias Canetti.

    Caneti’s family tree most likely has Ashkenazi.

    The vast majority of US Jews are Ashkenazi. Most of Western European Jews have always been Ashkenazi dating back several dozen centuries. Ashkenazi already were well established in England and Holland before Sephardic Jews arrived.

    In the US, again, the vast majority of Jews are Ashkenazi. If broken down by IQ, wonder which subsection/sect would tend to have the higher IQ?

  156. IJ – “When the Jews can hijack a perfectly good antisemitic blog like this ..”

    Antisemetic – it’s the new “racist”. And for the same reason. Just as blacks are unable to resist playing the race card at every conceivable (and, frequently, inconceivable) opportunity, Jews seem congenitally incapable of not describing anything they’d rather not hear as “antisemitic”.

  157. @Mr. Anon
    "Anonymous says:

    @Mr. Anon

    Haim Saban’s is an Egyptian Jew, not an Ashkenazi from the shtetl. Aaron Copland’s ancestors were Lithuanian Jews, and Leonard Bernstein’s ancestors were Ukrainian Jews. All of them were likely to have lived in shtetlach. Many cultured, educated American Jews have Eastern European Jewish antecedents."

    I am aware of that. I have known several Ashkenazis who were educated, cultured people. My question still stands. Are Jews embarrassed by vulgar dreck-peddlars like Adelson and Saban, who - by dint of their enormous fortunes - claim to speak for them? I'd like to think that at least some Jews are.

    If Saban and Adelson are to be considered such pariahs what about Bernie Maddof? He certainly has done some things in his public life that would make many Jews embarrassed.

    If we’re going to be honest, how about popular radio talk show host Michael Savage? At times he is consciously doing a stereotypical schtick of pretending to be just off the boat and into the schtetl, even speaking Yiddish phrases from time to time.

    He is of Russian/German heritage and thus quite Ashkenazi and yet his overbearing boisterous mannerisms can be quite grating. Granted, most of this is schtick for his audience.

    One time he played an early episode of nearly twenty years ago when he was just starting out in radio and his voice contained very little of an accent (NY or something else). So he knows what he is doing when he plays to that section of his audience.

  158. @anon 1
    Let's get some numbers straight. According to Wikipedia, in 1933 there were only 522,000 Jews in Germany, about 200,000 in Austria, and more than 3.5 million in Poland. Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century. As much as the American Jews don't like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland

    > As much as the American Jews don’t like to admit it and camouflage their origins with German-sounding names, the vast majority of the American Ashkenazi Jews have their roots in Poland.

    AFAIK, there is no widespread denial of Polish roots. The Germanic names are not an attempt at camouflage at all – first of all, you don’t pick your last name (and if you do, usually you change it to something English, not Germany – Kohn becomes Kerry, etc.) and 2nd Jews have Germanic names because they spoke a Germanic language (Yiddish) and were mostly living in German speaking areas at the time that it became the custom for Jews to have surnames (historically, Jews didn’t, long after Christians did – they used patronymics instead).

    2nd a lot of American Jews are confused about their Polish roots because (even though they are from places that are in present day Poland) at the time that their ancestors left, Poland did not exist as a country. To the extent they have any paperwork from their ancestors, it shows them as being citizens of Russia or Austria. It’s hard to say WHERE some places are because the flags keep changing. My mother was born in the Galician province of Austria, then it was occupied by the Russians in WWI, then it was Poland when she was growing up, then the Russians came in 1939, then the Germans came, then the Russians came back , now it is Ukraine and any day now the Russians may show back up again.

    Also, lots of Ashkenazi Jews are NOT from Poland. There were large Jewish communities in present day Ukraine, Byelorussia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, etc. Around HALF of Ashkenazi Jews were in Poland (3 million out of 6 million killed in the Holocaust) so American Jews have maybe a 50/50 chance of being from Poland.

  159. @soren
    I kind of wish the Chinese would start buying up media outlets in America.

    “I kind of wish the Chinese would start buying up media outlets in America.”

    Headlines will read like fortune cookies.

  160. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In Thomas Sowell's Ethnic America chapter on Jews, he makes the point that uptown Jews (German Jews) resented the downtown newcomers (Russian/Polish Jews) and that the derogatory slurs ... originated from German Jews toward Russian/Polish Jews, and not from WASPS. That would actually make sense since WASPS really didn't have contact at all with downtown Jews (initially) and hardly palled around with uptown German Jews to begin with.

    No one hates lower class whites more than upper class whites. You are always more free to talk trash (even call them trash) about your own.

  161. @Ed
    I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism. There were many more Jews with that attitude than people today think. I don't know the extent to which this was true or if it changed with later generations. But it could explain Saban's and Adelson's interest in taking over the Times.

    "Impartial journalism can’t survive the free market any better than corporate research departments and good looking flight attendants. "

    This is a fascinating comment, but I don't quite get it, other than that all three have been disappearing. But arguably corporate research departments were done in by crony capitalism, not the free market. If the main determinant of the success of your business is government subsidized financing, navigating (or lobbying to create) government regulations, and maybe government contracts, how much do you really need to spend on research. And the disappearance of attractive female flight attendants I don't get at all.

    “I read somewhere, maybe on this site, that the Sulzbergers were skeptical if not outright opposed to Zionism.”

    http://youtu.be/dwEDgSECGiU

    Even if true, why should we care? What does Israel have to do with white survival?

  162. @ Dave Pinsen

    Yes, I read that book too, but I´d forgotten the details of how he moved to Vienna. It´s a good account of Weimar-era Germany as well. I never could get past the first 100 pages or so of Auto-da-Fé (Die Blendung). Damn Scots-irish, they absorbed so much of our youth, LOL! I blame Mahler.

  163. @Steve Sailer
    Have you looked at print ads lately? I picked up a copy of the L.A. Times for the first time in a year, and the ads were fascinating and beautiful, and that's on pulp paper. There were interesting ads for things I'd never Googled for but now that you showed me a large, attractive ad for them I kinda wanted to buy them. Magazine ads on slick paper are much more attractive than web ads. I don't know why web advertising is so awful still in 2014, it just is.

    Maybe print ads still have greater impact per impression than digital, but on a cost per eyeball basis, print is way overpriced compared to digital. Does a print ad make 5x the impression that a digital one seen by the same person does? Because it would have to in order to account for the price difference at current rates. My guess is that the difference in pricing exists for historic reasons and that if we were starting fresh, no one would pay 5 x as much for a print ad (on a cost/impression basis) and eventually advertisers won’t be willing to do so anymore. In the war between tradition and sabermetrics, sabermetrics wins in the long run.

  164. @Peter Akuleyev

    The hostility between German and Russian Jews disappeared after the War.
     
    There are still some remnants - Hasidism is very much a traditional Eastern European Jewish sect, and there is still a fair amount of hostility between the Hasids and the assimilated Jewish population.

    The only problem is that “the assimilated Jewish population” is itself mostly of Eastern European origin. German-American Jews, who have been a minority since the great Ellis Island wave of immigration, basically no longer exist as a separate community.

  165. @Peter Akuleyev
    @143 - Galician Jews, who are the ancestors of a large percentage of American Jews, were all forced to take German last names by the Habsburgs when they took Galicia from Poland at the end of the 18th century.

    Correction – they were forced to take last names period. Lots chose exclusively Jewish names (Cohen and Levy and Israel and Katz and Shapiro, etc.) or the names of their towns, occupations, etc. There are some stories that the “fancy” Germanic names were like vanity plates, available at an extra charge. These were the “Gold” and “Silver” and “Rose(n)” and “berg” (Mountain) and “stein” (stone) , etc. type names.

    • Replies: @granesperanzablanco
    Pretty sure you either were or were not a Cohen or levy. No choosing in those cases
  166. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    It would be interesting to see if most of modern Israel's Jewish population is either Sephardic or Ashkenazi. Note: I didn't say the original founders or the leaders. I said the majority of the Jewish population.

    Because most US and European Jews are Ashkenazi. Actually, worldwide the Ashkenazi far outnumber the Sephardic in total numbers but since Spain and Portugal are somewhat close to the Middle East distance wise, wonder if the nation's population totals aren't evenly distributed unlike say, in the US, where most Jews are Ashkenazi.

    Too bad that there is no easy way to find this kind of information out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Since this is obviously too hard for you, it’s about 50/50, roughly.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Right, because Wikipedia's information is 100% accurate 100% of the time.

    But again, the vast majority of US's Jews are Ashkenazi.

    Wonder what this animosity is toward Ashkenazi, the best educated and most likely, the higher IQ right section of the Bell Curve compared to the lesser (relatively speaking) Sephardic?

    Or maybe its the old everyone hates the winner, the most dominant, etc.

    Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi.
  167. @Anonymous
    Pinch Sulzberger is half-Jewish. His mother, Barbara Grant, was an Episcopalian.

    Actually, that makes him not Jewish at all, since Judaism, or at least religious Judaism, determines religion on a matrilineal basis (on the assumption that paternity is difficult to determine). If your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish, if she isn’t, you ain’t (unless you convert).

  168. @Anonymous
    Mizrahi (i.e. native Middle Eastern) Jews and Sephardic Jews together make up slightly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population. If it hadn't been for the large influx of Russian Jews over the past 30 years, they would account for significantly more than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

    Right, and a lot of the Russian “Jews” aren’t fully Jewish (or sometimes not Jewish at all), and a lot of the younger generation is intermarried with Sephardim, so if you are talking about purebred Ashkenazi Jews (especially ones who aren’t Hasidic) like Adelson they are a shrinking (dying) minority (as they are for that matter in the US).

  169. @Difference Maker
    The US could wreck Iran’s nuclear program at low cost — a dozen cruise missiles should do it. Reapplied in a few years should Iran rebuild things, but I doubt they’d even do that; they can’t afford it. There’s no need for “boots on the ground”, or nation-building that’s silly Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld stuff.

    Clinton came within a hair of ordering North Korea’s nukes destroyed (until Jimmy Carter negotiated a sham deal that saved the day for Kim Jong Il). We were a different country then. The post-pax-Americana world won’t be a pretty one

    Even so, it is not our business. Let Israel take the risk for Israel's own belligerence.

    America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house

    >America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house.

    That worked out really well for us in the ’30s. If your neighbor’s house is on fire and you have termites, do you call the exterminator first or the fire dept.?

    • Replies: @Difference Maker
    That worked out really well for us in the ’30s. If your neighbor’s house is on fire and you have termites, do you call the exterminator first or the fire dept.?

    Iran is a weak country and is not possibly a threat to the United States, now or ever

    We will avoid sharing the same fate, and therefore must protect our own. If Israel wants our friendship, let us have theirs as well.
  170. ” Portnoy’s Complaint: A disorder in which strongly felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature…”

    Replace ‘sexual’ with ‘tribal’, and we are living in Portnoic times.

  171. If Sulzbergers won’t sell NY Times to Adelson, maybe Adelson should nuke Sulzerberger’s backyard to make a point. (As the house itself will be spared, no one will get hurt.)

  172. @Mr. Anon
    "Anonymous says:

    @Mr. Anon

    Haim Saban’s is an Egyptian Jew, not an Ashkenazi from the shtetl. Aaron Copland’s ancestors were Lithuanian Jews, and Leonard Bernstein’s ancestors were Ukrainian Jews. All of them were likely to have lived in shtetlach. Many cultured, educated American Jews have Eastern European Jewish antecedents."

    I am aware of that. I have known several Ashkenazis who were educated, cultured people. My question still stands. Are Jews embarrassed by vulgar dreck-peddlars like Adelson and Saban, who - by dint of their enormous fortunes - claim to speak for them? I'd like to think that at least some Jews are.

    Take a look at:

    http://mondoweiss.net/

    From its “about” page:

    This blog is co-edited by Philip Weiss and Adam Horowitz. Weiss is 56 and lives in New York state. Horowitz is 39 and lives in Atlanta.

    We maintain this blog because of 9/11, Iraq, Gaza, the Nakba, the struggling people of Israel and Palestine, and our Jewish background.

    This site aims to build a diverse community, with posts from many authors. The views of these authors do not necessarily represent the views of Horowitz and Weiss.
    – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss#sthash.7lAEEetH.dpuf

  173. @Peter Akuleyev

    522,000 minus 180,000 (the upper limit of their death toll estimate) =340,000 German Jewish survivors.
     
    Yes, and about 65,000 Austrian Jews (who were culturally "German") of the 250,000 living in Austria in 1933 were murdered. So even if we round up we get 65+180=250,000 deaths out of 770,000, or about 32% of German Jews died in the Holocaust. Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.

    Horrendous casualties to be sure, but not even close to the cultural destruction wrought on East European Jews.

    Absolutely; one of the key points that Snyder kept making in his Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin is that the Holocaust was primarily an Eastern European event. That was where the bulk of the people who were killed lived. That was where the majority of the killing was done.Western Europe was peripheral.

  174. @Jack D
    Too bad that there is no easy way to find this kind of information out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Since this is obviously too hard for you, it's about 50/50, roughly.

    Right, because Wikipedia’s information is 100% accurate 100% of the time.

    But again, the vast majority of US’s Jews are Ashkenazi.

    Wonder what this animosity is toward Ashkenazi, the best educated and most likely, the higher IQ right section of the Bell Curve compared to the lesser (relatively speaking) Sephardic?

    Or maybe its the old everyone hates the winner, the most dominant, etc.

    Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi." Surely you can replace the first two with people who are easier to admire.
  175. In some 40 years of TV watching I don’t recall a single instance of a Jewish guest on Johnny Carson, Jay Leno, etc. mentioning his Polish roots. It’s almost always Russia (duly alluding to the pogroms and such). And yet the Wikipedia list of the Jews with Polish ancestry is about a mile long:

    – Ben Gurion (born north of Warsaw – by the way, Polish was one of the official languages in the early days of the Knesset)
    – Menachem Begin (Polish name: Mieczyslaw Biegun)
    – Samuel Goldwyn (born in Warsaw) of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer fame
    – Netanyahu’s father (original name: Mileikowski) born and raised in Warsaw
    – Albert Michelson (born in the Prussian-occupied part of Poland, of Jewish father and Polish Catholic mother) first American Nobel Prize winner in Physics.

    Historically, ‘Poland’ is a shorthand for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth prior to the 1770s or Poland prior to WW II. That encompasses a chunk of western Ukraine (incl. Lviv) which for centuries was controlled by Poland. Let’s remember, Ukraine was a region, not a nation, that was almost never independent and only began to acquire national consciousness in the 1600s. It also encompasses parts of today’s Belarus and Lithuania (incl. Vilnius). I may be wrong but I believe this is the definition of Poland adopted by the newly opened Polin Museum of the History of Polish Jews in Warsaw. In other words, Poland is defined as the vast area where the Polish culture, republican governance (in contrast to German and Russian despotism), language, and literature were dominant. It’s a cultural definition, not a geographic one. Let’s not forget, for example, that around 1600 Polish language was the language of the Russian upper classes because at that time Russian was still rather undeveloped.

    Even though the situation has been improving, to many Jews Poland is still a country that shall not be named, that is best passed over in silence or only mentioned in negative terms. This is due to many factors: centuries of Jewish antipolonism, competition over who suffered more during WW II, etc. On the Polish side, there are grievances over the disproportionate Jewish role in imposing Communism on Poland against the will of the people after WW II, and many others. It’ll take decades to sort these things out. Historiography of East Central Europe is still in its infancy. Britain, for example, has a new research project: Tudors of Central Europe. It concerns the fact that the Jagiellonian dynasty of Poland in 1500 controlled half of continental Europe stretching from the Baltic to the Adriatic. Even historians are typically not aware of this fact or that Poland, unlike Germany or Russia, was the cradle of democracy in Europe and had a version of habeas corpus 200 years before England

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    That's debatable and frankly sounds a bit made up. Historians usually are most aware of all relevant facts of history (that's how they make their living, by recording and interpreting the established events and facts of history). Habeas corpus began in England, not Poland. It came thru custom law which predates Magna Carta. Poland in early 13th century was nowhere near establishing democracy or from establishing habeas corpus. The world's first democratically represented parliament was not founded in Warsaw, but in Rejkavik, Iceland in around 1000AD. Iceland would have a much stronger claim to having directly influenced democracy in Europe if we take that tactic.

    Nice try. Whenever its stated "Every single major historian of credible reputation and stature missed out on this one," most likely...it's a crock and a sham.

    Cradles generally get going quite well. Poland was a political backwater and controlled by Germany and Russia throughout most of its centuries of being a mere territory of both which tended to go back and forth between wars of conquest.

    Habeas Corpus came out of the ancient Saxon customs of the late 8th, 9th, and 10th centuries. Poland wasn't doing much during this time whatsoever.

  176. @Anonymous
    'The fact that we allow foreigners to operate media in our country is incomprehensible to me."

    I agree. It is a a bad thing. It should not be allowed. I believe it is forbidden in some countries.

    what about the members of congress that dual US/Israeli citizenship? that to me SCREAMS of conflict of interest, no?

    i just did a quick Google search and found this so don’t attack me if the site isn’t up to you standards.

    Posted by We are all Vittorio Arrigoni on Wednesday, June 22, 2011

  177. @Anon 1
    In some 40 years of TV watching I don't recall a single instance of a Jewish guest on Johnny Carson, Jay Leno, etc. mentioning his Polish roots. It's almost always Russia (duly alluding to the pogroms and such). And yet the Wikipedia list of the Jews with Polish ancestry is about a mile long:

    - Ben Gurion (born north of Warsaw - by the way, Polish was one of the official languages in the early days of the Knesset)
    - Menachem Begin (Polish name: Mieczyslaw Biegun)
    - Samuel Goldwyn (born in Warsaw) of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer fame
    - Netanyahu's father (original name: Mileikowski) born and raised in Warsaw
    - Albert Michelson (born in the Prussian-occupied part of Poland, of Jewish father and Polish Catholic mother) first American Nobel Prize winner in Physics.

    Historically, 'Poland' is a shorthand for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth prior to the 1770s or Poland prior to WW II. That encompasses a chunk of western Ukraine (incl. Lviv) which for centuries was controlled by Poland. Let's remember, Ukraine was a region, not a nation, that was almost never independent and only began to acquire national consciousness in the 1600s. It also encompasses parts of today's Belarus and Lithuania (incl. Vilnius). I may be wrong but I believe this is the definition of Poland adopted by the newly opened Polin Museum of the History of Polish Jews in Warsaw. In other words, Poland is defined as the vast area where the Polish culture, republican governance (in contrast to German and Russian despotism), language, and literature were dominant. It's a cultural definition, not a geographic one. Let's not forget, for example, that around 1600 Polish language was the language of the Russian upper classes because at that time Russian was still rather undeveloped.

    Even though the situation has been improving, to many Jews Poland is still a country that shall not be named, that is best passed over in silence or only mentioned in negative terms. This is due to many factors: centuries of Jewish antipolonism, competition over who suffered more during WW II, etc. On the Polish side, there are grievances over the disproportionate Jewish role in imposing Communism on Poland against the will of the people after WW II, and many others. It'll take decades to sort these things out. Historiography of East Central Europe is still in its infancy. Britain, for example, has a new research project: Tudors of Central Europe. It concerns the fact that the Jagiellonian dynasty of Poland in 1500 controlled half of continental Europe stretching from the Baltic to the Adriatic. Even historians are typically not aware of this fact or that Poland, unlike Germany or Russia, was the cradle of democracy in Europe and had a version of habeas corpus 200 years before England

    That’s debatable and frankly sounds a bit made up. Historians usually are most aware of all relevant facts of history (that’s how they make their living, by recording and interpreting the established events and facts of history). Habeas corpus began in England, not Poland. It came thru custom law which predates Magna Carta. Poland in early 13th century was nowhere near establishing democracy or from establishing habeas corpus. The world’s first democratically represented parliament was not founded in Warsaw, but in Rejkavik, Iceland in around 1000AD. Iceland would have a much stronger claim to having directly influenced democracy in Europe if we take that tactic.

    Nice try. Whenever its stated “Every single major historian of credible reputation and stature missed out on this one,” most likely…it’s a crock and a sham.

    Cradles generally get going quite well. Poland was a political backwater and controlled by Germany and Russia throughout most of its centuries of being a mere territory of both which tended to go back and forth between wars of conquest.

    Habeas Corpus came out of the ancient Saxon customs of the late 8th, 9th, and 10th centuries. Poland wasn’t doing much during this time whatsoever.

  178. Habeas Corpus originally stems from the Assize of Clarendon, a re-issuance of rights during the reign of Henry II of England.[5] In the 17th century the foundations for habeas corpus were “wrongly thought” to have originated in Magna Carta.[6] This charter declared that:

    No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseized of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land.

    William Blackstone cites the first recorded usage of habeas corpus ad subjiciendum in 1305, during the reign of King Edward I. However, other writs were issued with the same effect as early as the reign of Henry II in the 12th century. Blackstone explained the basis of the writ, saying “The King is at all times entitled to have an account, why the liberty of any of his subjects is restrained, wherever that restraint may be inflicted.”

    This is roughly 2-3and a half centuries before the 15th century Polish form which was only extended to nobility and not to the commoners at large for another couple of centuries, in other words, around the time the US, France, and other Western Democracies were already implementing it for the population at large.

    US law comes from English and Roman law, not Polish.

  179. 1. Iceland? Is that the best you can do? In 1000 AD Iceland was a backwater, basically a village on the far periphery of Europe. It hardly qualified as a country. It barely does today. You could have mentioned a better example, Republic of Venice which was partly populated by the escapees from the fallen Western Roman Empire. But again, these two tiny states don’t even begin to compare to the vastness of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (i.e., republic) which around 1600 was the largest state in Europe.

    2. Probably the biggest misconception about the history of Poland, understandable in a largely Protestant country such as the U.S., is that from about 900 AD onwards there was close contact between early Poland and Rome until Poland became the antimurale Christianitatis, i.e., a bulwark of the Western Christendom, guarding the eastern perimeter of Europe. Let’s not forget that Catholicism and Catholic countries such as France, Italy, and Poland were the dominant forces on the Continent until probably the death of Louis the XIV in France. Poland actively participated in the councils of the Catholic Church and played an active role in the dynastic politics of Europe.

    3. Poland’s version of habeas corpus, Neminem captivabimus, was proclaimed in 1430, after Poland gained a measure of self-confidence following the decisive victory over the Teutonic Knights in the Battle of Grunwald (1410), which delayed the eastern German colonialism(Drang nach Osten)
    by at least two centuries. Hitler’s pursuit of Lebensraum which resulted in the Holocaust was a continuation of this German Drang nach Osten.

    4. The proportion of the citizens entitled to vote was 10-15
    percent in Poland around 1500, limited as it was to the nobility (szlachta). If this seems low, let’s remember that this percentage was one that England would not surpass until the Reform Bill of 1867. Only 10-15% were eligible to vote in the early 19th century in England and France. After all, women were not eligible to vote.

    5. Just one example of how advanced the political thought was in early modern Poland: read De Optimo Senatore (1568). Written by Goslicius (Goslicki), a Polish nobleman, it was immediately translated into English and widely read at the time. Jefferson had a copy in his library. Note that at the time when Poland was proclaiming the concept of the noble democracy, the states around it were becoming more and more autocratic.

    6. Note that Poland extended the habeas corpus to all citizens, incl. the peasantry, in the Constitution of May 3, 1791, Europe’s first written constitution. Prussia and Russia, both despotic powers, reacted swiftly, “We mustn’t have this kind of radicalism in our midst. It might give the wrong idea to our peasants, and lead them to imitate the French Revolution.” They quickly clamped down on the Polish experiment.

    Ultimately, Poland’s tragedy was its geopolitical location as part of the defensive perimeter of Europe, defending it from the invasions from the east and the south (e.g., King Sobieski breaking the Muslim siege of Vienna in 1683). Its system, that of a multicultural, multiconfessional, multiethnic republic was far ahead of its time but it was too decentralized, unfortunately in this sense resembling the United States . The U.S. today is also a multiethnic, multicultural republic with the centrifugal balkanizing forces gaining strength, perhaps to a breaking point. Let’s hope, the U.S. won’t share the fate of the 18th century Polish-Lithuanian republic

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Iceland, unlike Poland in 1000, had a democratically elected parliament (since it is the first in western Europe). But no, Iceland in 1000 did not qualify as a separate nation of distinct cultural people with a sustaining national government.

    And...neither did Poland in 1000.

    Hold it, hold it. It is a great exaggeration to state that Poland and not the Hapsburg empire that was the bulwark of Eastern Christendom vs the Islamic/Turks invasions of the 16-17th centuries (no large part derived out of the Holherzolern German provinces of 12-14th centuries via marriage alliances etc.)

    England, during Edward I's reign sent ca. 1295 the top 10-15% of the realm to vote (e.g. Town burghers, merchants, etc) in Parliament for Edward "English Justinian" for taxes and to advise him regarding his future wars vs Scotland and most notably France. That's about 150 yrs or so before Poland. Representative Democratic government got its early start here as Parliament from this time onward would be not directly limited to the King's inner counsellors but now would include representatives from London and other major cities who would officially advise and give consent to the King and his government from this time onward officially. The House of Commons evolved from this parliament meeting between townsmen (middle classes) and the King and his counsellors and was officially recognized during the 14th century. So while one could say its a standoff in the sense that both nations top 10-15% were voting English Law would set the benchmark, the standard worldwide in the centuries to come.

    Regarding women voting, that is a non-sequitur. No nation during the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and into the Enlightenment had a form of Feminism Equality (e.g. Women's Sufferage, etc) and Poland wasn't known for being a standout of allowing women to vote anymore than Russia or all of Europe.

    1791 was the year the US's written Constitution was officially ratified. So we probably beat it by a few yrs. England has never had an officially written Constitution so that's neither hear nor there.

    The Seige of Vienna's chief victor was the Austro-Hungarian Empire since it occurred within its territories. The Holy Roman Empire during the 16th century was the main rival vs the Ottoman Turks.

    It was France, Italy, Spain, England, and The Holy Roman Empire that were the bulwark of Christendom. Poland, for the most part, isn't on the major map of influence during late middle ages/Renaissance. France and England, are Europe's first two modern nation-states, after all

    Jefferson may have read it but he read tons of things. That is a far difference than to attempt to not so subtly claim that it directly influenced his political philosophy, for that you need direct proof of which, you have none. You might as well state that Jefferson was influenced by American Indian governmental systems (the Four Nations) at the time. He was heavily influenced by John Locke, Montisquieu, ancient Greco-Roman philosophers more so than Poland.

    It is understandable to attempt to rewrite or rather, exaggerate Poland's role in world history particularly in representative democracy when nearly all experts have given the bulk of the credit to the US, England, and the West at large. Wonder why?

    But again, Iceland, not Poland, had the world's first democratically elected Parliament. In the year 1000. It's called the Allthing.
  180. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Right, because Wikipedia's information is 100% accurate 100% of the time.

    But again, the vast majority of US's Jews are Ashkenazi.

    Wonder what this animosity is toward Ashkenazi, the best educated and most likely, the higher IQ right section of the Bell Curve compared to the lesser (relatively speaking) Sephardic?

    Or maybe its the old everyone hates the winner, the most dominant, etc.

    Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi.

    “Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi.” Surely you can replace the first two with people who are easier to admire.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ok,

    How's Robert Oppenheimer and Sandy Koufax?

  181. @Jack D
    >America is rotting from within and must take care of its own house.

    That worked out really well for us in the '30s. If your neighbor's house is on fire and you have termites, do you call the exterminator first or the fire dept.?

    That worked out really well for us in the ’30s. If your neighbor’s house is on fire and you have termites, do you call the exterminator first or the fire dept.?

    Iran is a weak country and is not possibly a threat to the United States, now or ever

    We will avoid sharing the same fate, and therefore must protect our own. If Israel wants our friendship, let us have theirs as well.

  182. Everything you need to know about the Israel Hayom (or anti-Sheldon Adelson) law

    A bill that would stymie the U.S. casino magnate’s free Israeli newspaper has passed an early hurdle in the Knesset. So is that good or bad for the country?

    http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.626053?v=03FD364CE4DC9589A503153F48FE28C5

    Immigration news from Israel:

    Indian Jews from ‘lost tribe’ move to Israel
    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=21387

  183. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    Honestly, where DO you get this stuff from?

    Your ass? ” consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn’t allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. ”

    This is a good example of how great you are at writing blog posts, but you’d never last 5 minutes in the real world, where people require actual evidence. If you can cite a source from a history of Jews written by a Jew that implies such, I’d appreciate it. I read a few Jewish history books (Salo Baron, Norman Cantor, if you want to know the names) and they were always very blunt about intra-Jewish hostilities, no gentile-bashing.

    Please give us the names of the families where these stories predominate. It sure didn’t happen in mine.

    It’s basically Kevin MacDonald for blog readers.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Intra-Jewish hostilities? Then Steve was correct. Thomas Sowell's research also showed it as much. Certain main slurs originated among German Jews directed toward Eastern European Jews, the Levi come latelies (Ellis Islanders).
    In fact, many ethnics tend to have some form of elitism among the high and the lower classes within its group. That's not new.

    But its usually put out there for ulterior motives "Big bad WASPY gentiles, look what they did to us, etc."

    FACT: Not all kumbayah between German Jews and the later arrivals Ellis Islanders. Where's it written that the tribe all got along just splendidly in America during the 19th century? They didn't like the fact that the newcomers were making them look bad. Call it snobbish, elitism, if you will. Facts are facts.

    Much the same as how Bobos look down at Larry the Cable Guy Rednecks. Much the same thing.

    Look in the Old Testament. The 12 tribes occasionally fought one another, it wasn't all a bed of roses.

  184. @syonredux

    Saban and Adelson are both American citizens.
     
    In name only; they practically define what Theodore Roosevelt was warning us about when he discussed the dangers of "hyphenated Americans."

    Episcopalianism is a branch of an imported religion.
     
    The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America; it was there at Jamestown in 1607. It was Washington's faith.It is part of America.

    >> The Episcopal/Anglican Church was part of the settling of America

    America was settled 9000 years before 1607.

    >>> “Jewish trailer trash?”

    that’s an ערס “ars” (plural Ars’eem).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRVjfKOeIxU

    “Joe Sixpack” types would be would be סחים sakh’eem

    where “kh” is the gutteral.

    Saban knows those words. Adelson’s wife does; she grew up in Haifa.

  185. @Dave Pinsen
    Cultural destruction isn't exactly the same as human destruction. Germany has Jews today, but how much of pre-war German culture survives? Eric Warburg went back to Germany after the war, but how many others did? Aren't most Jews in Germany today emigres from Russia?

    >>> Aren’t most Jews in Germany today emigres from Russia?

    there’s actually plenty who are native Israelis. Especially Berlin.

  186. Read the Wikipedia article about the history of the Jews in Germany: slaughter followed by persecution followed by slaughter, even in the 19th century.

    And yet, Jews just won’t stop following the white heathens (“gentiles”) around. Jews go straight from zero to hysterical when a heathen suggests that they have the right to have for themselves what Jews have for themselves in Israel; they go nuts at the idea that any white heathens might have a country where Jews aren’t welcome, the way white heathens are unwelcome in Israel.

    It’s clear from IQ and wealth surveys that the smarter, more capable Jews insist on living in the diaspora around the white heathens (not much interest in living among the non-white heathens, relatively speaking), and not in Israel among their own kind. Maybe they know something you don’t.

    Every few years, I read an article about how Jews are slinking back into Germany. If ever there was a poster meme for the idea that Jews never learn. You’d think pride alone would keep them out of Germany, given how much hay they’ve made out of German-Jewish relations…

  187. Actually, that makes him not Jewish at all, since Judaism, or at least religious Judaism

    [/relevance]

  188. Well so far, if Bezos has made any changes at the WaPo they aren’t in the editorial stance of the paper.

    What about Ezra Klein? He’s out. I joined Amazon Prime to celebrate that week.

  189. America was settled 9000 years before 1607.

    It depends upon what your definition of America is. If your definition is the actual land mass that resides on the North American continent, then yes, people have been living here for thousands of years. But if you definition takes into account the unique political, economic and cultural institutions of what we know as the USA, then no, it was not settled 9000 years ago.

    I think the latter definition is more apt. After all, my ancestors came here because of the opportunities created by our English cousins. In fact, I’d venture to guess that all the folks coming to the USA today are coming here not for the land, but rather for the political and economic systems created by the descendants of those settlers from 1607. Even the Mexicans aren’t coming here for the land. The indigenous people of Mexico had thousands of years to wander north, but generally did not bother. Now, however, they can’t seem to get here fast enough to partake in this wonderful creation begun by our English friends.

    Eliezer, even a very large population of your co-ethnics have braved the crappy weather that encompasses most of the USA for the chance to join this English-founded nation, rather than settling in the more appealing climes of Latin America.

    • Replies: @Karl
    >> Eliezer, even a very large population of your co-ethnics have braved the crappy weather




    Tarzana, California doesn't have such bad weather.

    Is Tarzana the only place in California where getting the "homeboy" discount in a Nail Salon - takes throwing IDF slang around, instead of Vietnamese slang?
  190. @Anon 1
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    1. Iceland? Is that the best you can do? In 1000 AD Iceland was a backwater, basically a village on the far periphery of Europe. It hardly qualified as a country. It barely does today. You could have mentioned a better example, Republic of Venice which was partly populated by the escapees from the fallen Western Roman Empire. But again, these two tiny states don't even begin to compare to the vastness of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (i.e., republic) which around 1600 was the largest state in Europe.

    2. Probably the biggest misconception about the history of Poland, understandable in a largely Protestant country such as the U.S., is that from about 900 AD onwards there was close contact between early Poland and Rome until Poland became the antimurale Christianitatis, i.e., a bulwark of the Western Christendom, guarding the eastern perimeter of Europe. Let's not forget that Catholicism and Catholic countries such as France, Italy, and Poland were the dominant forces on the Continent until probably the death of Louis the XIV in France. Poland actively participated in the councils of the Catholic Church and played an active role in the dynastic politics of Europe.

    3. Poland's version of habeas corpus, Neminem captivabimus, was proclaimed in 1430, after Poland gained a measure of self-confidence following the decisive victory over the Teutonic Knights in the Battle of Grunwald (1410), which delayed the eastern German colonialism(Drang nach Osten)
    by at least two centuries. Hitler's pursuit of Lebensraum which resulted in the Holocaust was a continuation of this German Drang nach Osten.

    4. The proportion of the citizens entitled to vote was 10-15
    percent in Poland around 1500, limited as it was to the nobility (szlachta). If this seems low, let's remember that this percentage was one that England would not surpass until the Reform Bill of 1867. Only 10-15% were eligible to vote in the early 19th century in England and France. After all, women were not eligible to vote.

    5. Just one example of how advanced the political thought was in early modern Poland: read De Optimo Senatore (1568). Written by Goslicius (Goslicki), a Polish nobleman, it was immediately translated into English and widely read at the time. Jefferson had a copy in his library. Note that at the time when Poland was proclaiming the concept of the noble democracy, the states around it were becoming more and more autocratic.

    6. Note that Poland extended the habeas corpus to all citizens, incl. the peasantry, in the Constitution of May 3, 1791, Europe's first written constitution. Prussia and Russia, both despotic powers, reacted swiftly, "We mustn't have this kind of radicalism in our midst. It might give the wrong idea to our peasants, and lead them to imitate the French Revolution." They quickly clamped down on the Polish experiment.

    Ultimately, Poland's tragedy was its geopolitical location as part of the defensive perimeter of Europe, defending it from the invasions from the east and the south (e.g., King Sobieski breaking the Muslim siege of Vienna in 1683). Its system, that of a multicultural, multiconfessional, multiethnic republic was far ahead of its time but it was too decentralized, unfortunately in this sense resembling the United States . The U.S. today is also a multiethnic, multicultural republic with the centrifugal balkanizing forces gaining strength, perhaps to a breaking point. Let's hope, the U.S. won't share the fate of the 18th century Polish-Lithuanian republic

    Iceland, unlike Poland in 1000, had a democratically elected parliament (since it is the first in western Europe). But no, Iceland in 1000 did not qualify as a separate nation of distinct cultural people with a sustaining national government.

    And…neither did Poland in 1000.

    Hold it, hold it. It is a great exaggeration to state that Poland and not the Hapsburg empire that was the bulwark of Eastern Christendom vs the Islamic/Turks invasions of the 16-17th centuries (no large part derived out of the Holherzolern German provinces of 12-14th centuries via marriage alliances etc.)

    England, during Edward I’s reign sent ca. 1295 the top 10-15% of the realm to vote (e.g. Town burghers, merchants, etc) in Parliament for Edward “English Justinian” for taxes and to advise him regarding his future wars vs Scotland and most notably France. That’s about 150 yrs or so before Poland. Representative Democratic government got its early start here as Parliament from this time onward would be not directly limited to the King’s inner counsellors but now would include representatives from London and other major cities who would officially advise and give consent to the King and his government from this time onward officially. The House of Commons evolved from this parliament meeting between townsmen (middle classes) and the King and his counsellors and was officially recognized during the 14th century. So while one could say its a standoff in the sense that both nations top 10-15% were voting English Law would set the benchmark, the standard worldwide in the centuries to come.

    Regarding women voting, that is a non-sequitur. No nation during the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and into the Enlightenment had a form of Feminism Equality (e.g. Women’s Sufferage, etc) and Poland wasn’t known for being a standout of allowing women to vote anymore than Russia or all of Europe.

    1791 was the year the US’s written Constitution was officially ratified. So we probably beat it by a few yrs. England has never had an officially written Constitution so that’s neither hear nor there.

    The Seige of Vienna’s chief victor was the Austro-Hungarian Empire since it occurred within its territories. The Holy Roman Empire during the 16th century was the main rival vs the Ottoman Turks.

    It was France, Italy, Spain, England, and The Holy Roman Empire that were the bulwark of Christendom. Poland, for the most part, isn’t on the major map of influence during late middle ages/Renaissance. France and England, are Europe’s first two modern nation-states, after all

    Jefferson may have read it but he read tons of things. That is a far difference than to attempt to not so subtly claim that it directly influenced his political philosophy, for that you need direct proof of which, you have none. You might as well state that Jefferson was influenced by American Indian governmental systems (the Four Nations) at the time. He was heavily influenced by John Locke, Montisquieu, ancient Greco-Roman philosophers more so than Poland.

    It is understandable to attempt to rewrite or rather, exaggerate Poland’s role in world history particularly in representative democracy when nearly all experts have given the bulk of the credit to the US, England, and the West at large. Wonder why?

    But again, Iceland, not Poland, had the world’s first democratically elected Parliament. In the year 1000. It’s called the Allthing.

  191. @WhatEvvs
    Honestly, where DO you get this stuff from?

    Your ass? " consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn’t allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. "

    This is a good example of how great you are at writing blog posts, but you'd never last 5 minutes in the real world, where people require actual evidence. If you can cite a source from a history of Jews written by a Jew that implies such, I'd appreciate it. I read a few Jewish history books (Salo Baron, Norman Cantor, if you want to know the names) and they were always very blunt about intra-Jewish hostilities, no gentile-bashing.

    Please give us the names of the families where these stories predominate. It sure didn't happen in mine.

    It's basically Kevin MacDonald for blog readers.

    Intra-Jewish hostilities? Then Steve was correct. Thomas Sowell’s research also showed it as much. Certain main slurs originated among German Jews directed toward Eastern European Jews, the Levi come latelies (Ellis Islanders).
    In fact, many ethnics tend to have some form of elitism among the high and the lower classes within its group. That’s not new.

    But its usually put out there for ulterior motives “Big bad WASPY gentiles, look what they did to us, etc.”

    FACT: Not all kumbayah between German Jews and the later arrivals Ellis Islanders. Where’s it written that the tribe all got along just splendidly in America during the 19th century? They didn’t like the fact that the newcomers were making them look bad. Call it snobbish, elitism, if you will. Facts are facts.

    Much the same as how Bobos look down at Larry the Cable Guy Rednecks. Much the same thing.

    Look in the Old Testament. The 12 tribes occasionally fought one another, it wasn’t all a bed of roses.

  192. @dearieme
    "Freud, Marx, Einstein, generally all high IQs and all Ashkenazi." Surely you can replace the first two with people who are easier to admire.

    Ok,

    How’s Robert Oppenheimer and Sandy Koufax?

  193. @iSteveFan
    America was settled 9000 years before 1607.

    It depends upon what your definition of America is. If your definition is the actual land mass that resides on the North American continent, then yes, people have been living here for thousands of years. But if you definition takes into account the unique political, economic and cultural institutions of what we know as the USA, then no, it was not settled 9000 years ago.

    I think the latter definition is more apt. After all, my ancestors came here because of the opportunities created by our English cousins. In fact, I'd venture to guess that all the folks coming to the USA today are coming here not for the land, but rather for the political and economic systems created by the descendants of those settlers from 1607. Even the Mexicans aren't coming here for the land. The indigenous people of Mexico had thousands of years to wander north, but generally did not bother. Now, however, they can't seem to get here fast enough to partake in this wonderful creation begun by our English friends.

    Eliezer, even a very large population of your co-ethnics have braved the crappy weather that encompasses most of the USA for the chance to join this English-founded nation, rather than settling in the more appealing climes of Latin America.

    >> Eliezer, even a very large population of your co-ethnics have braved the crappy weather

    Tarzana, California doesn’t have such bad weather.

    Is Tarzana the only place in California where getting the “homeboy” discount in a Nail Salon – takes throwing IDF slang around, instead of Vietnamese slang?

  194. @Steve Sailer
    Traditionally, there's a lot of animus between the Eastern European Jews who arrived later and the German Jews who arrived earlier and tended to be rich and cultured. But you don't hear about that much anymore because the Jewish community has a genius for retconning history to make it all the fault of the gentiles.

    For example, consider all the family stories about how great-grandpa wasn't allowed to join a country club so he had to start his own. What's been forgotten is how much of the time the country club that great-grandpa got blackballed from because he was a crass vulgarian wasn't a WASP country club -- great-grandpa didn't want to hang out with a bad dining room and Protestants who weren stuffy unless they were drunk -- it was a German Jewish country club he couldn't get into. For example, the Century Country Club in Westchester County (Bill Clinton's home course) was German Jewish, and not for Russians. Just about every city in America had the "good" (German) Jewish country club and the "other" (Russian) country club.

    Interestingly, this is the explanation for why we have no good Jewish delis in San Francisco. Our Jews came early from Germany and were highly assimilated. California was wide open. The German Jews then actively worked to keep out Eastern European Jews and their pickle carts.

  195. @Jack D
    Correction - they were forced to take last names period. Lots chose exclusively Jewish names (Cohen and Levy and Israel and Katz and Shapiro, etc.) or the names of their towns, occupations, etc. There are some stories that the "fancy" Germanic names were like vanity plates, available at an extra charge. These were the "Gold" and "Silver" and "Rose(n)" and "berg" (Mountain) and "stein" (stone) , etc. type names.

    Pretty sure you either were or were not a Cohen or levy. No choosing in those cases

  196. Is Tarzana the only place in California where getting the “homeboy” discount in a Nail Salon – takes throwing IDF slang around, instead of Vietnamese slang?

    Why would a man go to a nail salon? Okay, I guess it’s California.

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