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From my new column at Taki’s Magazine:

Numerous identity politics uproars, such as Ferguson, Trayvon, and Duke Lacrosse, have turned out to be humiliating fiascos for the national press when all the facts are finally toted up. Note that these were the mainstream media’s wars of choice, battlegrounds chosen to teach the public lessons.

What can we expect from the next crisis in the press’s pipeline, the purported fraternity initiation gang rape?

Even as the Ferguson narrative exploded, both metaphorically and literally, in an orgy of media-encouraged looting and arson (plus a white St. Louis man who was murdered with hammers on Sunday), vanguard elements were moving on to the upcoming obsession. A long article in Rolling Stone by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, entitled “A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA,” appeared on November 19th.

Read the whole thing there.

By the way, before I linked to Richard Bradley’s November 24th post expressing skepticism about the Rolling Stone article here on November 29th, virtually nobody in the press was expressing any doubts about even the details of the story. I was the only commenter on Bradley’s post, until I put up the link here. Then comments from my readers flooded in to his site.

Now, Bradley-inspired questions are everywhere. We helped bring a more balanced perspective to the attention of the world.

 
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  1. aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    • Replies: @ladague
    It doesn't appear that they are required to be made of safety glass.

    In Europe, where I live, they are required to be made of safety glass, so I had a look round for the regulations for Virginia but I couldn't find anything. I did eventually come across this site:

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/glass-tables-and-pyrex-shattering

    Go down to the headline 'Glass Tables a Serious Safety Hazard'. The article says that non-tempered glass can be life-threatening and it gives a couple of examples. In one, a woman was sitting on the edge of a glass-topped coffee table when the glass shattered and a large shard punctured her kidney and chipped her vertebrae; she was told that she would never walk again. In the other, a man was nearly decapitated by glass shards when he dropped the glass table he had been carrying.

    Basically, if the glass in this story was safety glass, it would have broke into more or less harmless cubes. These cubes still wouldn't have been good if they had been ground into the skin for hours, of course and they would have left marks. If the glass was not safety glass, and that seems to be most likely, then no-one would have had - or, more to the point, been able to have - sex on it for any amount of time, let alone some hours. It would have been dangerous from the start.

    This is just one of the things that convinces me that there is no truth at all to this story. That and the fact that it was told at all. If it had been real, it would have been reported to the police, and since it wasn't, why tell it after all this time? 'Jackie' must be a bit depressed and needs attention, I should think. That goes for the 'reporter' as well.
    , @ben tillman

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     
    That's a question someone telling the truth would have anticipated and answered. Just like she would have explained that at some point the lights came on making identification of the participants possible, etc.
    , @syonredux

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     

    Although glass doors and windshields are mandated to contain tempered glass, which is four to five times stronger than standard glass and breaks into small fragments that are unlikely to cause injury, no such mandates apply to glass tables, whether patio or indoor furniture. Injuries are typically caused when children jump, sit, or fall on glass tables or knock them over. The shattered glass — or jagged edges of broken tables — can cause severe lacerations, leaving disfiguring scars and damaging tendons and nerves.

    “Huge shards of glass are basically like knives. If they sever an artery, they can cause uncontrolled bleeding, and the injury can be fatal,” says Amir Kimia of the Division of Emergency Medicine at Children’s Hospital Boston, who led the study.

    Last December, a Rhode Island girl died from a severe puncture wound to her leg. After earlier media reports about children seen at Children’s Hospital Boston with severe lacerations, Consumers Union collaborated with Kimia on a systematic study.
     
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/03/glass-tables-an-overlooked-safety-threat/
    , @Lot

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     
    Some are, but there is no requirement.

    Safety glass can still break. It shatters into tiny pieces that are less dangerous than big shards. The main thing I learned googling this is that they are extremely dangerous either way and regularly kill children and severely injure adults.

    Glass patio tables also can spontaneously shatter from sudden temperature changes.
  2. It’s strange: when was the last time you encountered a really world-famous literary fraud from Britain? Why can’t modern Britain pull its weight in the literary fraud stakes?

    Time was when Britain could manage heavy-duty literary frauds with the best of them. Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud, with with the emergence of James “Ossian” Macpherson and George “Formosan” Psalmanazar. In the early 20th century Britain produced the bogus Sinologist Edmund Backhouse and the truly amazing Richard Meinertzhagen, who not only did his single-handed best to destroy ornithology as an exact science, but might have popped his second wife in a Scottish village (as you do). T.E. Lawrence was no slouch in the fraud stakes either.

    Perhaps current British culture is simply too nihilistic to be a fruitful source of authorial mountebanks (or – more likely – British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile cases suggest). In our time, it’s Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out. Two canonical works of the misery-memoir genre, Kathy O’Beirne’s Don’t Ever Tell and Frank McCourt’s Angela’s Ashes, are these days trusted only by those who would buy, sight unseen, the Brooklyn Bridge.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "In our time, it’s Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out." What should we make of the author of the excellent (so I'm told) Master and Commander books, having a fake claim to be Irish?


    By the by, congrats to iSteve for alerting the world to the UVA rape fraud (if such it be). But you'll get precious little credit for it Steve, what with being a racist, baby-eating Nazi, and probably a vampire to boot. Or so your bed-wetting tendency will say, if they even deign to mention you at all.
    , @WhatEvvs
    You never heard of this?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/aug/28/topstories3.books

    Best. Literary. Fraud. Ever.

    And speaking of frauds, I've concluded that this Rolling Stone story is a crock. I don't have the energy to parse it. It just seems phony to me. A woman who had been raped by numerous men, while lying on glass shards wouldn't be able to walk, and without doubt, a college educated victim of rape would be instructing the cops in the proper use of rape kits.

    Not believable.

    If you google Sabrina Rubin Erdely's name, you will now see a bunch of hits with words like "stretches credulity." An avalanche of skeptical articles is occurring. Check it out.

    , @josh
    "Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud."

    Double Heck. They did it earlier than that. How can you forget Sir John Mandeville. The G.O.A.T.
    , @The most deplorable one

    or – more likely – British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris
     
    Hey, cut that out. Rolf Harris is Australian. At least he was counted as Australian when I saw him sing "I'm Jake the Peg" in Darwin, even if he did live in England.
  3. “I was the only commenter on Bradley’s post, until I put up the link here. Then comments from my readers flooded in to his site. We helped bring a more balanced perspective to the attention of the world.”

    you guys did a great job. i came across richard bradley’s essay thanks to your tweet, steve.

  4. @A Reader From Australia
    It's strange: when was the last time you encountered a really world-famous literary fraud from Britain? Why can't modern Britain pull its weight in the literary fraud stakes?

    Time was when Britain could manage heavy-duty literary frauds with the best of them. Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud, with with the emergence of James "Ossian" Macpherson and George "Formosan" Psalmanazar. In the early 20th century Britain produced the bogus Sinologist Edmund Backhouse and the truly amazing Richard Meinertzhagen, who not only did his single-handed best to destroy ornithology as an exact science, but might have popped his second wife in a Scottish village (as you do). T.E. Lawrence was no slouch in the fraud stakes either.

    Perhaps current British culture is simply too nihilistic to be a fruitful source of authorial mountebanks (or - more likely - British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile cases suggest). In our time, it's Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out. Two canonical works of the misery-memoir genre, Kathy O'Beirne's Don't Ever Tell and Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes, are these days trusted only by those who would buy, sight unseen, the Brooklyn Bridge.

    “In our time, it’s Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out.” What should we make of the author of the excellent (so I’m told) Master and Commander books, having a fake claim to be Irish?

    By the by, congrats to iSteve for alerting the world to the UVA rape fraud (if such it be). But you’ll get precious little credit for it Steve, what with being a racist, baby-eating Nazi, and probably a vampire to boot. Or so your bed-wetting tendency will say, if they even deign to mention you at all.

  5. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:
    @A Reader From Australia
    It's strange: when was the last time you encountered a really world-famous literary fraud from Britain? Why can't modern Britain pull its weight in the literary fraud stakes?

    Time was when Britain could manage heavy-duty literary frauds with the best of them. Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud, with with the emergence of James "Ossian" Macpherson and George "Formosan" Psalmanazar. In the early 20th century Britain produced the bogus Sinologist Edmund Backhouse and the truly amazing Richard Meinertzhagen, who not only did his single-handed best to destroy ornithology as an exact science, but might have popped his second wife in a Scottish village (as you do). T.E. Lawrence was no slouch in the fraud stakes either.

    Perhaps current British culture is simply too nihilistic to be a fruitful source of authorial mountebanks (or - more likely - British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile cases suggest). In our time, it's Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out. Two canonical works of the misery-memoir genre, Kathy O'Beirne's Don't Ever Tell and Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes, are these days trusted only by those who would buy, sight unseen, the Brooklyn Bridge.

    You never heard of this?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/aug/28/topstories3.books

    Best. Literary. Fraud. Ever.

    And speaking of frauds, I’ve concluded that this Rolling Stone story is a crock. I don’t have the energy to parse it. It just seems phony to me. A woman who had been raped by numerous men, while lying on glass shards wouldn’t be able to walk, and without doubt, a college educated victim of rape would be instructing the cops in the proper use of rape kits.

    Not believable.

    If you google Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s name, you will now see a bunch of hits with words like “stretches credulity.” An avalanche of skeptical articles is occurring. Check it out.

  6. Excellent article, Steve. Of course, the entire college rape crisis moral panic is built on the bogus ” one-in-five women in college are raped” myth, but we don’t see the mainstream press examining that too closely, either.

    • Replies: @DPG
    Technically, the statistic isn't 1-in-5 are raped, it's 1-in-5 are sexually assaulted. Of course, that's cited as evidence of a "rape culture." It's a huge bait and switch. The 1-in-5 stat is based off of surveys, as well, rather than police reports or university investigations. They ask girls if they've been sexually assaulted according to a very broad definition, count as a yes every girl who's had her ass grabbed by a drunken frat boy, and then report that percentage as proof that hundreds of thousands of girls are getting date raped.

    From an article in Weekly Standard that Steve linked to a while ago:

    "The bogus statistics thrown around by the feminist-industrial complex—a one-in-four to one-in-five incidence of sexual assault among undergraduate girls—dwarf any known crime rate, even in the most brutal African ethnic wars. In 2012, Newark, New Jersey’s rate for all violent crimes—murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—was 1.1 percent; its rape rate was under .02 percent. Activist researchers attain their 20-25 percent rape incidence statistic by the strategic phrasing of questions and the exquisite parsing of definitions. In a 1986 Ms. survey that sparked the campus-rape industry, 73 percent of respondents whom the study characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped when asked the question directly. Forty-two percent of these supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants—an inconceivable behavior in the case of actual rape. Sixty-five percent of females whom a 2000 Department of Justice study deemed “completed rape” victims said that they did not think that their experiences were “serious enough to report,” nor did their alleged “victimization” result in physical or emotional injuries."
    , @Anonymous
    I've always understood it to be one-in-four. In high school, a male student group from UVA called "One-in-Four", referencing the "one-in-four college women are raped" statistic, came to speak to the senior class to raise awareness about how one-in-four college women are raped:

    https://atuva.student.virginia.edu/organization/oneinfour

    One in Four is an all-male sexual assault peer education group at U.Va. We present a one-hour program, "How to Help a Sexual Assault Survivor: What Men Can Do," to any group of men who will listen -- sports teams, residence hall students, student organizations, fraternities, off campus groups -- anyone. We also perform for coed audiences from time to time under special circumstances.
     
  7. The story in Rolling Stone of gang-rape at UVA is a kind of Vagina Monologue gone wrong and would do Dan Rather proud.

    And behind it, no doubt a hoax, is Feminism, malicious Feminism, which provides a philosophical framework, however rickety, as well as a veneer of respectability, for the phobias of women who, in better times, were recognized as hysterics or depressives–or simply as misfits for whom life is too much.

  8. This look at the writer’s literary influences explains well the search for the perfect campus on which to set her story. The article is supposedly important because rape is a big problem everywhere, on every campus, but not every campus strikes the writer as the perfect setting for her follow on to the works of Tom Wolfe and Hunter S. Thompson. “Would Wolfe or Thompson write about this place? No, keep looking.”

  9. My heart feels like an alligator (when reading this Taki article)!

  10. @robot
    aren't glass tables made with safety glass?

    It doesn’t appear that they are required to be made of safety glass.

    In Europe, where I live, they are required to be made of safety glass, so I had a look round for the regulations for Virginia but I couldn’t find anything. I did eventually come across this site:

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/glass-tables-and-pyrex-shattering

    Go down to the headline ‘Glass Tables a Serious Safety Hazard’. The article says that non-tempered glass can be life-threatening and it gives a couple of examples. In one, a woman was sitting on the edge of a glass-topped coffee table when the glass shattered and a large shard punctured her kidney and chipped her vertebrae; she was told that she would never walk again. In the other, a man was nearly decapitated by glass shards when he dropped the glass table he had been carrying.

    Basically, if the glass in this story was safety glass, it would have broke into more or less harmless cubes. These cubes still wouldn’t have been good if they had been ground into the skin for hours, of course and they would have left marks. If the glass was not safety glass, and that seems to be most likely, then no-one would have had – or, more to the point, been able to have – sex on it for any amount of time, let alone some hours. It would have been dangerous from the start.

    This is just one of the things that convinces me that there is no truth at all to this story. That and the fact that it was told at all. If it had been real, it would have been reported to the police, and since it wasn’t, why tell it after all this time? ‘Jackie’ must be a bit depressed and needs attention, I should think. That goes for the ‘reporter’ as well.

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know about literary frauds, but the British are still kings of the classic ‘wind-ups’ as they call them, or in other words elaborate practical jokes in which a poor sap is fooled into believing a completely false – and often fraught – set up situation is true.
    TV’s late Jeremy Beadle was a master of the genre, but the king must be the celebrated comedian Chris Morris and his iconic but long departed ‘Brass Eye’ TV program. The ‘nonce-sense’ scene in which many big name celebrities were publicly fooled and conned iscan absolute classic.

  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,
    To return to my pet theme, it’s that old totem pole working its magic again.
    All social band political life in contemporary America must be judged by the positioning of the gods on the sacred totem pole. After me banging on about it for so long, you must know the order of precedence of the gods and the relative degrees of genuflection offered.
    As you know, the sacred avatars of the gods upon earth ie black people are the ‘kings of the gods’, next, just to bore you again, come the yoni.

  13. Dahlia says:

    Excellent article.
    This is so important and I think it got buried in the final comments in the last post. Those “Rugby Road” lyrics.

    To recap, the president of the Glee club, Zachary Reid, said Erdely contacted him wanting to know if he had the rest of the lyrics as she suspected there were more than just two. He was only aware of the two. He, and members of the Virginia Gentlemen are shocked to open up Rolling Stone and find all those extra lyrics as nobody knew the song was so long. A dozen internet comments, often of people who are reporting searching out others who might know, have revealed no knowledge, no source.

    Then last night, in an article about how disappointed the interviewed students and activists were with how they’d been twisted as to be unrecognizable and a follow-up with a combative Erdely on this, I found this:

    Erdely acknowledged that her story showed one side of UVA culture, “but it is the dominant culture,” she said. Which is why she kept hammering on those “Rugby Road” verses.

    “That’s what I wanted to address, that the degradation of women is intrinsically woven into the campus, and on every campus, and frankly in our culture,” she said. “If people are getting confused by that, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s another aspect of their denialism.”

    I think Sabrina Erdely fabricated those lyrics.

    http://www.c-ville.com/uva-activists-author-rolling-stone-article-speak/#.VH8FzEnpbiM
    http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/university-glee-club-temporarily-retires-rugby-road

  14. I did my part by linking that Bradley column on several sites I peruse, some political and some not so much so. I even linked it on a college football board for my alma mater, where it got several pages of comments, most of which where favorable.

  15. Correct me if I am wrong.

    But, have not most of us as college freshman heard of fantastic college rape and gang bang stories that later turned out to be entirely false or at least grossly exaggerated?

    The tales of white fraternity pledges being encouraged by the house’s upperclassmen to engage in a gangbang/rape of a drunken/drugged prospective “little sister” on the pool table in full view of dozens of frat bros were commonplace ways of unmasking gullible freshman when I went to school.

    I just don’t things have changed much over the years.

    I knew personally of a couple girls in college who turned out to have very serious untreated(or unmedicated) bi-polar disorders who were sexually taken advantage of but by no means raped by multiple predatory minded males. But none of what these girls experienced anything close to lurid nonsense in the Rolling Stone article.

  16. Much of this immense article is devoted to puzzling scenes in which Jackie’s friends and female mentors tell her to cheer up and get over it.

    This sounds like something from the ’50s-mocking movie Pleasantville rather than the victim-worshipping America of today.

    One man flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.

    This doesn’t sound right to me. I might be wrong, but a blow to the side of the face strong enough to shatter a beer bottle seems like it would break a bone. Certainly it would do more damage than leave a bruise. Perhaps she was hit with a bottle but it didn’t shatter and the shattering was added for literary effect.

    I was unfortunate enough to work with the writer Stephen Glass on a number of articles.

    A number of Glass’s stories were featured on This American Life in the late ’90s. Apparently they appealed to the pre-existing biases of Ira Glass too. They have since been removed from the archived programs with an explanation.

    Wouldn’t the rapists get cut by the broken glass all over the floor, too?

    This confuses me. The article says “…a body barreled into her, tripping her backward and sending them both crashing through a low glass table. There was a heavy person on top of her…” There are no such things as “glass tables,” only glass-topped tables with a strong underlying frame. So was she lying within that frame? It doesn’t sound like it–she says the rape began immediately upon her crashing through the table. What happened to that frame? Assuming the story were true, did Erdely decide that moving the victim away from the table frame and broken glass diminished the brutality of the tableau? If so, Erdely undercut the credibility of her own story by adding too much extra drama.

  17. I don’t know what kind of reputation Rolling Stone has for good journalism with the public or in the industry, but its reputation was pretty abysmal already with me because it was the host of the truth-indifferent sensational writings of Matt Taibbi.

    However: I am a little worried that the Sailersphere is setting itself up for embarrassment here. Sure, Sabrina R.E. is a hack, and the story is shoddily reported and surely exaggerated. It *might* be a total fabrication, and it was totally fair to call for moderation and skepticism. But terrible stuff does happen in the world, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and I would definitely not go “all in” on the notion that there was no real horrific crime here.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It's important not to assume nothing bad happened. It's just part of the pattern of the media choosing the worst cases to go all in on.
  18. @A Reader From Australia
    It's strange: when was the last time you encountered a really world-famous literary fraud from Britain? Why can't modern Britain pull its weight in the literary fraud stakes?

    Time was when Britain could manage heavy-duty literary frauds with the best of them. Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud, with with the emergence of James "Ossian" Macpherson and George "Formosan" Psalmanazar. In the early 20th century Britain produced the bogus Sinologist Edmund Backhouse and the truly amazing Richard Meinertzhagen, who not only did his single-handed best to destroy ornithology as an exact science, but might have popped his second wife in a Scottish village (as you do). T.E. Lawrence was no slouch in the fraud stakes either.

    Perhaps current British culture is simply too nihilistic to be a fruitful source of authorial mountebanks (or - more likely - British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile cases suggest). In our time, it's Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out. Two canonical works of the misery-memoir genre, Kathy O'Beirne's Don't Ever Tell and Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes, are these days trusted only by those who would buy, sight unseen, the Brooklyn Bridge.

    “Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud.”

    Double Heck. They did it earlier than that. How can you forget Sir John Mandeville. The G.O.A.T.

  19. Progressivism increasingly has the marks of a fundamentalist religion. It’s reached the tipping point where the more preposterous the story, the better. The purpose of the stories is not to inform, but to give the true believers a chance to demonstrate their loyalty to the cause. It’s the same as handling snakes or standing on a sidewalk in Pyongyang screaming and tearing your hair out because Kim Jong-Il died.

  20. Well done again, sir.

    It is funny how you keep seeing Steve talk about stuff, and then it appears two weeks later in the MSM. The sad thing is, the one guy who actually tried to give him credit–David Brooks on natalism–got piled on it later for ‘reading the racist author Steve Sailer’.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gladwell attacked Pinker in the New York Times for reading me.
  21. This Paterson University gang rape couldn’t have come at a worse time for the MSM.

  22. The latest developments include a follow-up story by Allison Benedikt and Hanna Rosin at Slate, which strikes me as more critical and says the Washington Post has spoken to Jackie for another story that has not yet run (they say she had agreed to speak with Benedikt and Rosin but backed out); and a piece by KC Johnson of Durham-in-Wonderland fame. He posts these days at Minding the Campus. I had gone over there several days ago, wondering if he had weighed in, and found an earlier post where he was just recounting early reports. The new piece is more hard-hitting and, in addition to noting Erdley’s one-sided interview technique, he notices one of those sources is Wendy Murphy, who made all kinds of wild claims, later disproven, during the Duke lacrosse fraud. Of course that’s not mentioned in the Rolling Stone piece.

  23. Looked on Twitter…
    I believe I’m the only person who has questioned the veracity of those lyrics as of yesterday evening and this morning. At best, Erdely is the victim of a practical joker, but I believe she made them up. No matter what the truth, it’s damning.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe there is somewhere on the Internet somebody posted a bunch of verses he made up.
  24. The article in the link you provided, that talked about why Richard Blow became Richard Bradley, never mentioned how traumatic it would be for a boy to go through life with a name like “Dick Blow.” I can see why he might want to change his name!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yeah. Dick Blow.

    Richard is one of those first names that you can be confident will never become a girl's name. But it has its downsides.

  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, did you see the latest Bloggingheads episode with Glenn Loury and John McWhorter? I know McWhorter has taken some nasty shots at you in the past, but I suspect he reads your site. They both agree with you (without attribution) that the media and black leaders did a terrible job picking Ferguson as the hill to fight on. I suspect McWhorter feels worried by the backlash to saying that, so he hedges by saying that Trayvon was fighting back against being illegally “detained,” (a bizarre allegation I have seen nowhere else). But I think that’s just cover for conceding your basic point.

    I wonder if your status as a pariah who must not be mentioned actually encourages more leftists to read you? Kind of like how 13 year old boys are super eager to see R-rated movies.

  26. Thank you, Steve, for calling attention to this. Congratulations on making a difference.

    If it’s relevant at all, I was a resident advisor at a “prestigious university,” and I can say from experience that delusional coeds have been known to panic and tell distorted stories about their new sexual experiences. I guess the phenomenon is common enough. I remember a couple of girls like that crying like victims when it was obvious all they did was give in to their carnal desires and regret it later.

    Advice to college boys: stay off a girl until you know she’s not a psycho who will panic later. She’s been hearing anti-male propaganda all her life, which is going to cause her some serious cognitive dissonance after the fact.

  27. “One man flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.”

    Yeah, no. Have you ever tried to break a bottle? They’re stout. They have to be to withstand handling by stock boys in stores. They only break over someone’s head in movies, where the stunt men use special candy prop glass. In real life they’re going to go “clunk” if they hit someone in the head. I don’t think you can throw a bottle fast enough to break it over a skull.

    • Replies: @enemylimes
    You can, but it will knock the target out 9/10. Also, it will not shatter, but break in two with a couple of small triangular bits breaking away. Any time a bottle is broken on someone's head they are out cold, generally bleeding heavily. IMO, if a bottle was thrown at "Jackie" with enough force to break, she would be knocked unconscious, with a bad cut bleeding profusely, and a broken cheek bone or eye socket. Source: working in pubs for over a decade.
  28. “Ferguson narrative exploded “- Not really. Trying to explain rioting is a fools game. The rioting was not about Michael Brown, it transformed into something else. The most interesting development was the video of officer Wilson abusing a “middle class” white guy pressure washing his house for apparently no reason at all, beyond Wilson was unusually sensitive a out people looking at him. So it is not impossible to believe Wilson was picking fights with people until one day he got into one he could not handle without opening fire. Wilson also seemed to showed no concern for where his stray bullets might go, as he fired a lot of rounds through his window. In short Wilson seemed to panic.

    You might watch that video as you try to resurrect the Nixon strategy as the Sailor strategy.

  29. Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?"

    That's implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You'd think that after all these years or decades, they'd at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    , @ben tillman

    Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?
     
    Yes, that is what Erdely claimed.
  30. Great stuff, Steve. I think that your subtle allusions to the Jewish “WASP Country Club” mythos are very much on-point. Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s * description of the campus is saturated with it:

    aura of preppy success, where throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students fanned across a landscape of neoclassical brick buildings.

    *Not wanting to simply assume that someone with “Rubin” in her name is Jewish, I googled her background.She’s Jewish . She references her Jewishness in an article called “I’ll be Damned” (http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/IllBeDamned.pdf)

  31. I saw this linked on Twitter – http://www.catholicleague.org/rolling-stone-gets-ugly-vile-hit-on-philly-archdiocese-2/ Apparently this isn’t the first time that Sabrina Rubin Erdely has written an advocacy piece that leaves out key facts that don’t fit the “narrative”.

  32. This is one story I’m going to try not to follow. One more red herring in the game of distracting the masses from the things that really matter to their economic well-being: current trade and immigration policy. Or am I being naive and cynical?

  33. Steve from Sex and the City

    July 10th, 2007 by Larry Smith
    By Sabrina Rubin Erdely

    Two years ago, not long after I returned to work post-maternity leave, I found myself at a Planned Parenthood gala in D.C. I felt like a tourist. Having just spent five months in my sweatpants, speaking in baby-rhyme with an infant hanging from my boob, I might as well have been an alien among these well-dressed people, with their wine glasses and their witty repartee. So as I sat down at my table, I was relieved to recognize the man seated next to me. Semitic, bespectacled, nebbishly handsome—I couldn’t place him, but a wash of warmth told me this was an old friend.

    “Do we know each other?” I asked.

    “Maybe,” he said, playing along. “You look familiar, too.” Asteve.jpg couple of rounds of Jewish Geography got us nowhere. He smiled an impish smile—so familiar!—and threw up his hands in defeat, but I persisted: “Are you with Planned Parenthood?” That’s when his face changed to an expression that said, Oh wow, she really doesn’t know. In that instant, my brain woke up. It was Steve from Sex and the City.

    My mind reeled. How couldn’t I have recognized David Eigenberg?
    http://www.smithmag.net/2007/07/10/steve-from-sex-in-the-city/

    • Replies: @syonredux

    So as I sat down at my table, I was relieved to recognize the man seated next to me. Semitic, bespectacled, nebbishly handsome—I couldn’t place him, but a wash of warmth told me this was an old friend.

    “Do we know each other?” I asked.

    “Maybe,” he said, playing along. “You look familiar, too.” Asteve.jpg couple of rounds of Jewish Geography got us nowhere. He smiled an impish smile—so familiar!—and threw up his hands in defeat, but I persisted: “Are you with Planned Parenthood?” That’s when his face changed to an expression that said, Oh wow, she really doesn’t know. In that instant, my brain woke up. It was Steve from Sex and the City.

    My mind reeled. How couldn’t I have recognized David Eigenberg?
     
    She seems to have over-estimated (imagined?) Eigenberg's level of Jewishness:

    Eigenberg was born in Manhasset, New York[1] on Long Island and grew up in Naperville, Illinois. His mother, Beverly, owns pre-schools, and his father, Harry Eigenberg, is a retired certified public accountant.[2] He has a younger sister, Betsy, and an older sister, Helen.[3] Eigenberg was raised in his mother's Episcopalian religion (Eigenberg's father was Jewish).[4]
     
  34. I am glad that I am not the only one who thought that the girl confabulated this story to somehow comfort herself after an “I Am Charlotte Simmons” event.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Maybe she lost her virginity that night. Our culture is not very cognizant of the emotional power of that happening. Wolfe's novel is one of the few recent ones to deal with that in detail.
  35. What is the responsibility of all those retailing the lurid fantasies of an obviously sick and unhappy woman? They are exposing her to the mob for eventual public ridicule and abuse which in the end can’t be helpful to her. Instead of trying to get a person needed mental health services they trot her out like an exhibit at a carny show. They’re trying to make some point, I suppose, and she’s the vehicle for it. It takes about three minutes of reading her account to realize she doesn’t have a full deck; it’s like those stories of UFO abductees claiming that the aliens sexually assaulted them. Those selling the story must know it’s obviously untrue yet play this ‘perhaps it’s true’ game.
    Let’s not be surprised if she’s found unconscious from a pill overdose.

    • Replies: @HandsomeWhiteDevil
    "What is the responsibility of all those retailing the lurid fantasies of an obviously sick and unhappy woman? They are exposing her to the mob for eventual public ridicule and abuse which in the end can’t be helpful to her. Instead of trying to get a person needed mental health services they trot her out like an exhibit at a carny show."

    I've considered posting numerous comments on this fast-developing story, something along the lines of how odd it is that every advance in feminism dating back at least to the Progressive era, perhaps even as far back as the 1840's and '50s, seems to first involve defiant calls for greater expression of female sexuality, followed shortly after by reactionary wails against the way women are used and abused by the carnal lusts of beastly men.

    (Almost as if the "Madonna vs. Whore" syndrome is something that really exists within women, both individually and collectively.)

    But I can't. I just can't.

    I've worked in the mental health/homeless systems (there is a great deal of overlap) for nearly a quarter century and I've met too many actual, real victims of actual, real violence, both male and female, and plenty of rape victims as well. An exchange student, raped overseas, brought back to a mental hospital in the US, whose plaintive cries of "Rape" echoed through the ward as she was being examined by a male physician. An intelligent but dyslexic girl sent to a special school by parents who were embarrassed by her imperfections, one of the few white students there, raped three times by NAM students, and didn't tell anyone until years later (I'm sure Rolling Stone will be right on this story any day now...) Another case of a bright and cheerful young lady, whom I ran into several years later, now a drugged-up medicated mess as a result of her rape, and with a young son, the product of her rapist.

    Surely there must be a special circle of hell for those who would use events such as this to score political points.
  36. I’m not sure whether this is an example of overreach or the beginings of a cultural shift. For decades, feminists have been getting away with lies that you’d think normal people would be terribly embarrassed to be associated with. First, the idea that men and women are identical from birth, and only differ later on because of patriarchal conditioning. Then the stories of women hiding out in a sort of underground railroad to protect themselves from monstrous ex-husbands. Turns out on closer examination that many of these women simply weren’t satisfied with court judgments, and subsequently abducted their children and vilified their ex-husbands as a cover story to avoid prosecution.

    Finally the rape hysteria, ongoing since the 90s, that makes fantastic claims about how many women are raped and how few men prosecuted. After reviewing one claim about how few guilty men are convicted that made the rounds a couple years ago, I calculated that, according to feminist statistics, 40 million American men – one in four of us – should be in prison for rape. I suppose that would leave the other three to pick up the tab for incarceration, or perhaps slave labor is the idea here (more likely). I came up with that figure by multiplying the number of men currently supervised by the criminal justice system for sex crimes (does not include those who are merely registered sex offenders — only those in prison, on parole or on probation), which is already enormous, and comprises a higher percentage of our population than people under supervision for all crimes in many other countries.

    Feminists have been getting away with outrageous lies for so long that perhaps Rolling Stone and Erdely saw no need to fact check the story, assuming that nobody would dare question it, especially if it stayed out of criminal court, which probably appeared likely. It must have come come as a rude shock, then, that people have begun to do so.

    However, it is not right to assume that this litany of lies is confined to the liberal media and parts of academia. It has permeated society to the extent that it occurs every single day in family courtrooms across the nation. I suspect that this is where it began, because it has been going on ever since divorce became a civil matter in American courts in the late 19th century.

    I often tell men who don’t believe me to spend a morning or afternoon in family court – which is a grotesque chimera made up of various parts of criminal and civil courts stitched together into a lucrative mostrosity – to watch proceedings. Vicious accusations that beggar belief roll easily off the tongues of attorneys and their clients. Perjury hangs like a fog in the courtrooms, obscuring any clear truth, and judges accordingly rule in the most arbitrary manner.

    It is this fog of lies, I think, that has made its way into journalism and academia from below rather than the other way around.

    However, it’s long been known that divorce courts are filled with slander and bogus allegations, so nobody takes the accusations seriously enough to do more than use them as leverage to extract concessions. I can’t say it’s an encouraging sign, but perhaps people are starting to feel the same way about this kind of journalism. While that may not reflect well on our standards and culture, it’s probably appropriate at this point.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's floating around on the Internet a purported divorce filing by the ex-wife of a wealthy bad guy who has devoted his immense PR skills to persecuting politically incorrect people. But I won't link to it because who knows how much of it is pure BS.
  37. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/393815/sessions-house-gop-verge-breaking-2014-campaign-promises-joel-gehrke

    Just like ‘gay marriage’. The fix is in.

    Cons who don’t have the guts and spine to defend true marriage cannot be expected to defend rule of law.

    Law is now whatever the globo-elites say it is.

  38. Jackie was just starting her freshman year at the University of Virginia when she was brutally assaulted by seven men at a frat party. When she tried to hold them accountable, a whole new kind of abuse began.

    Of course, she didn’t try to hold anyone accountable. If the rape happened, which I strongly doubt, she decided the rapists should get away with it.

  39. @robot
    aren't glass tables made with safety glass?

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    That’s a question someone telling the truth would have anticipated and answered. Just like she would have explained that at some point the lights came on making identification of the participants possible, etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. The incompatibility of the details suggests that Jackie was never questioned all that hard.
  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The power of ‘Totem-Pole’ theory to explain the modern world can easily be demonstrated thus:
    In Rotherham UK, there was recent *real* massive trend of systematic, targeted mass rape and sexual abuse – this time really involving actual broken glass bottle ends being forcefully shoved into wombs and vaginas – perpetrated on white girls by Pakistani men.
    The usual voices that scream blue murder at such occurrences – the yoni being assailed by the lingam, how dare he? – were strangely silent as lambs about this atrocity.
    ‘Why?’ I hear you ask. ‘Well’, I say, ‘Just look at the totem-pole’ and ‘look at which god out-ranks the other god’.

  41. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @A Reader From Australia
    It's strange: when was the last time you encountered a really world-famous literary fraud from Britain? Why can't modern Britain pull its weight in the literary fraud stakes?

    Time was when Britain could manage heavy-duty literary frauds with the best of them. Heck, in the 18th century Brits almost invented literary fraud, with with the emergence of James "Ossian" Macpherson and George "Formosan" Psalmanazar. In the early 20th century Britain produced the bogus Sinologist Edmund Backhouse and the truly amazing Richard Meinertzhagen, who not only did his single-handed best to destroy ornithology as an exact science, but might have popped his second wife in a Scottish village (as you do). T.E. Lawrence was no slouch in the fraud stakes either.

    Perhaps current British culture is simply too nihilistic to be a fruitful source of authorial mountebanks (or - more likely - British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile cases suggest). In our time, it's Ireland rather than Britain where the truly industrious literary liars seem to hang out. Two canonical works of the misery-memoir genre, Kathy O'Beirne's Don't Ever Tell and Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes, are these days trusted only by those who would buy, sight unseen, the Brooklyn Bridge.

    or – more likely – British mountebankery now takes non-authorial and more sinister forms, as the Rolf Harris

    Hey, cut that out. Rolf Harris is Australian. At least he was counted as Australian when I saw him sing “I’m Jake the Peg” in Darwin, even if he did live in England.

  42. RE: clubs and fraternities at elite universities,

    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs:

    The Skulls (2000)

    The Skulls II (2002)

    The Skulls III (2004)

    As you might imagine, the films take their inspiration from Skull and Bones.

    The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat.

  43. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his men"] says:

    This was not a rape-hoax:On October 23 in Lumperton North Carolina a gang of teenager Black Males broke into the home of Kenneth Byrd 67. Mr. Bird and his wife were beaten up by these Black Yuts who then attempted to gang rape Kenneth Byrd’s teenage daughter. Kenneth Byrd, badly beaten, managed to find his gun and shoot everyone of the suspects…all were wounded. If you guessed that the Byrd Family was White…you guessed right. I already googled Kenneth Byrd’s photo.

    You can predict with 100 percent certainty that there will be an increase in Black Yuts breaking into White Homes and gang raping the White Women in these homes-post-Ferguson racial agitation of Al Sharpton and the Kenyan Foriegner Dear Leader.

  44. Google “Jahmel Latimer, William Paterson University.” This is a case of (alleged) gang rape I’m not sure the MSM will be interested in.

    Also, the Ferguson obsessives will take an about face on the principle of presumption of innocence and waiting for all the facts.

  45. RE: clubs and fraternities at elite universities,

    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs:

    The Skulls (2000)

    The Skulls II (2002)

    The Skulls III (2004)

    As you might imagine, the films take their inspiration from Skull and Bones.

    The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs

    The phrase "evil WASP" is redundant.
    , @Oswald Spengler
    "The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiXTA4_T_tE

    "Bell...as in Liberty Bell."
  46. I wonder if Rubin Erdely is related to Tomas Erdely, aka Tommy Ramone.

    It just means Transylvanian:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvania

  47. @robot
    aren't glass tables made with safety glass?

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    Although glass doors and windshields are mandated to contain tempered glass, which is four to five times stronger than standard glass and breaks into small fragments that are unlikely to cause injury, no such mandates apply to glass tables, whether patio or indoor furniture. Injuries are typically caused when children jump, sit, or fall on glass tables or knock them over. The shattered glass — or jagged edges of broken tables — can cause severe lacerations, leaving disfiguring scars and damaging tendons and nerves.

    “Huge shards of glass are basically like knives. If they sever an artery, they can cause uncontrolled bleeding, and the injury can be fatal,” says Amir Kimia of the Division of Emergency Medicine at Children’s Hospital Boston, who led the study.

    Last December, a Rhode Island girl died from a severe puncture wound to her leg. After earlier media reports about children seen at Children’s Hospital Boston with severe lacerations, Consumers Union collaborated with Kimia on a systematic study.

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/03/glass-tables-an-overlooked-safety-threat/

    • Replies: @Volksverhetzer
    Small pieces of shattered tempered glass is just as sharp, but as they shatter into small pieces, they don't cut very deep.

    You might stay hours on the operating table to pick out glass fragments, but you don't get disfiguring scares, as the wounds are only skin deep. From the guys I know who have been cut this way, both had fragments the doctors overlooked, coming out long after the cuts were healed.
    , @ic1000
    > aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    I searched Google Images with "glass table broken" and similar word combinations. Well over 95% of the relevant images show tables that had been made with safety (tempered) glass. (The majority were patio furniture, which may tilt towards safety glass by custom or regulation.)

    It seems more plausible than I had initially expected, that a frat house coffee table would have been made with safety glass.

    Author Rubin Erdely does relate Jackie's description of "sharp shards digging into her back". As pointed out at Richard Bradley's post, the virtue of safety glass is that it tends to produce granular chunks rather than jagged shards.
  48. “Overwhelming blonde”

    Fascinating. http://www.virginia.edu/Facts/Glance_Enrollment.html

    About 30% minority. There are a few blonde hispanics — I dated one, an Irish-Argentine — but they are pretty rare.

    I’ve heard plenty of frat boys boast about running a train on a girl. Wait, actually I haven’t.

    This is nothing more than a 21st century salem witch trial.

  49. Something I found at TheSabre.com reporting on a Slate article:

    Caitlin Flanagan, who did an investigation into bad behavior at fraternities for the Atlantic, emailed us:

    “In all my time studying fraternity rapes for my own essay, I didn’t come across a single report of anything like this. I did find reports of women who were raped by multiple men on one night—but those always involved incapacitation, either by alcohol or a drugged drink. And I did also find accounts of violent, push-down rape of the kind in the essay—but those were always by one member, not a bunch of members. (In fact, many of that kind—now that I think about it—were committed by non-members, or by visiting former members). But a planned gang rape, without alcohol or drugs, and keyed to initiation—I have never seen a case like that. Nor have I seen penetration with a foreign object—I’ve seen plenty of that committed by brothers to pledges as hazing, but I haven’t seen it in sexual assault cases. I’m sure it’s happened, but again—as part of a ritualized gang rape … Never anything like it.”

    That accords completely with what I’ve heard, and that’s why I was immediately skeptical.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. Caitlin did a big hostile article on fraternities recently, especially deaths and crippling from drunk students falling off balconies during parties. (That happened to a kid I knew.) The national fraternities are very adept at shucking legal responsibility for the damages and getting the parents of individual members to get stuck with the bill.
  50. Great article and awesome work on this topic generally.

    Interesting cultureworld note: one of the bigger and more dramatic divisions (in terms of point of view, temperament, values, taste-set, etc) is between the northeastern intellectual set and the southern set. They really revile each other, and have zero comprehension of and sympathy for each other. The northeastern intellectuals are infuriated by the southerners’ pacing, stateliness, preference for classical tradition and attachment to the land (and, of course, supposed racism), while the southerners feel really offended, misunderstood and angered by the kind of flashy grandstanding and displays of ego and self-importance the northeasterners are prone to.

    The black intellectual Albert Murray, who never made much of an impact on the northeasterners until late in life (even though he lived in Harlem for decades) once said to me something like, “The NYC crowd” — and by this we both knew he was talking about Jewish intellectuals — “never got my work. But the southern boys did.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Norman Podhoretz's memoir of the 1960s has a section about all the Southern writers moving to New York City and taking over. Midge Decter says that if the southerners could pass up a drink they'd take over.
  51. I can’t say how Phi Kappa Psi is at U of Va. But at Texas, that frat was sort of the 12th out of 12 in the “who’s who” of frats, generally a more gentle and nerdy brand of frat boy, something at the exact other end of the caricature of the big, unruly, jock, macho boy frat. I assume that frats at the bigger name state universities like UVa, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas, the “University of” place, with the Med School, with the Law School, especially ones with students that have parents that have some money to pay for the Big U, all sort of follow the same general pecking order of social power. So I assume Phi Kappa Psi is sort of down there at the bottom part of list. The hottest girls are not fighting over invites to that house on a Saturday night.

    For a lot of those guys, the combined frat dues plus the cost of living in the house are actually cheaper than renting some equivalent student housing option. So when you are talking about “the rooms”, you are talking about the place where people live. To have 9 guys in on this, easily 10% of that whole frat (Phi Kappa Psi is not a big frat with 120 members like some of the bigger names with a bigger national exposure), 9 Phi Kappa Psi beta nerds wearing button down collars, barely getting in to the whole Frat experience, involved in something this planned, this violent, in a room of some guy, where some guy lives is fucking incredible to me. The IQ of those frats at those Big “University of” schools is pretty high and these guys were not that stupid.

    And furthermore, Virginia is very different sort of place than a lot of other places. They take the idea of being a “gentleman” very seriously unless these Millennials are dramatically different than other Virginians I have known. Jeez, just close your eyes and say “Virginian” and what comes to mind? I am not buying that 9 guys from Virginia would stand by and let this level of criminal violence to a woman go on without one of those “Virginians” saying “No, I am not going to stand for this.” Especially a Virginian from “The University of”

  52. Google Campus Rape Myth.
    Read article at city-journal.org by Heather Mac Donald.
    She destroys the one-in-five and rape culture myths.

  53. Maybe it’s the prole in me, but I can’t help but think of this when you say glass shatters:

  54. wildly off-topic, but of possible interest to Sailer fans: Unamusement Park (see: iSteve sidebar, under ‘Diversity’) is back up and running after a long, long period of inactivity.

  55. Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology and Director of Center for Computational Biology, UCal-Berekley: The perfect human is Puerto Rican

  56. CNN is still trying to stir up trouble over Ferguson. What a horrible excuse for anything.
    Fox News peddles it’s bible thumping and warmongering. As has been said before the media is crap.

  57. Anonymous [AKA "Yoder"] says:

    Steve, you’ve got to coin a term for this new phenomenon wherein actual headlines are ripped from ripped-from-the-headlines confirmation bias porn like Law & Order. Talk about an echo chamber. This whole UVA thing, and a lot of other local crime stories gone national lately, attract the media when the guest stars match the script, and embarrass them when Eric Holder is no McCoy and there is no script.

  58. Remember this hate hoax?

  59. @syonredux
    RE: clubs and fraternities at elite universities,

    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs:

    The Skulls (2000)

    The Skulls II (2002)

    The Skulls III (2004)

    As you might imagine, the films take their inspiration from Skull and Bones.

    The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat.

    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs

    The phrase “evil WASP” is redundant.

  60. Thanks, Steve, for all you do to support the true spirit of argument, a word which comes from the Latin word “argumentum,” which shares the same root as the word for silver, “argentum.”

    The concept behind the word is that argument is a refining process where well-meaning, diligent, careful people work with each other, through the process of argument, to refine narratives, ideas and plans until the impurities of falsehood and folly are refined out, and the narratives and ideas become polished and perfected.

    It would be great if we lived in a world where people argued in that way. But self-interest and tribal loyalties usually prevent civilized and honest argument among adversaries.

    Here is a Bible verse for today: “The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in an earthen furnace, purified seven times.” (Psalms 12:6).

  61. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Can those alleged rapists, if they even exist, claim the status of False Rape Claim Survivors?

  62. @syonredux
    RE: clubs and fraternities at elite universities,

    There was a series of films in the early ’00s revolving around evil WASP university clubs:

    The Skulls (2000)

    The Skulls II (2002)

    The Skulls III (2004)

    As you might imagine, the films take their inspiration from Skull and Bones.

    The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat.

    “The earliest iteration of the evil WASP university club/fraternity that I can find is The Brotherhood of the Bell (1970). In that one, Glenn Ford learns the sinister truth about his old college frat.”

    “Bell…as in Liberty Bell.”

  63. Jamelle “SlateStats” Bouie isn’t buying any of this

    https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/539234490070351872

  64. Jamelle “SlateStats” Bouie isn’t buying any of this

    https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/539234490070351872

  65. I’m surprised more people haven’t raised an eyebrow to the woman’s claim that someone broke a bottle on her face. The “breaking a bottle on someone’s head” thing is a Hollywood stunt. In reality, bottles are pretty sturdy. Breaking a beer bottle on someone’s FACE (not skull) would likely result in fairly severe facial damage, including broken bones. She claims just some bruising around the eye. When reading the article for the first time, the broke-a-bottle-on-her-face claim was my first “wait a second…” moment.

    I know this because while an undergrad, I stupidly broke a bottle on my head to impress my fellow idiots (in our evil fraternity). It took a few tries, and when I succeeded the pain was overwhelming. I vomited a couple hours later. In retrospect I likely gave myself a concussion. That was over the skull – a bottle to the face? Sorry, that’s complete BS.

    And like the rapists, this crime also went unpunished?

  66. Dahlia says:

    Comment appears stuck; trying again

    Excellent article.
    This is so important and I think it got buried in the final comments in the last post. Those “Rugby Road” lyrics.

    To recap, the president of the Glee club, Zachary Reid, said Erdely contacted him wanting to know if he had the rest of the lyrics as she suspected there were more than just two. He was only aware of the two. He, and members of the Virginia Gentlemen are shocked to open up Rolling Stone and find all those extra lyrics as nobody knew the song was so long. A dozen internet comments, often of people who are reporting searching out others who might know, have revealed no knowledge, no source.

    Then last night, in an article about how disappointed the interviewed students and activists were with how they’d been twisted as to be unrecognizable and a follow-up with a combative Erdely on this, I found this:

    Erdely acknowledged that her story showed one side of UVA culture, “but it is the dominant culture,” she said. Which is why she kept hammering on those “Rugby Road” verses.

    “That’s what I wanted to address, that the degradation of women is intrinsically woven into the campus, and on every campus, and frankly in our culture,” she said. “If people are getting confused by that, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s another aspect of their denialism.”

    I think Sabrina Erdely fabricated those lyrics.
    At best, she’s a victim of a practical joker, at worst….

    http://www.c-ville.com/uva-activists-author-rolling-stone-article-speak/#.VH8FzEnpbiM
    http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/university-glee-club-temporarily-retires-rugby-road

  67. @syonredux

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     

    Although glass doors and windshields are mandated to contain tempered glass, which is four to five times stronger than standard glass and breaks into small fragments that are unlikely to cause injury, no such mandates apply to glass tables, whether patio or indoor furniture. Injuries are typically caused when children jump, sit, or fall on glass tables or knock them over. The shattered glass — or jagged edges of broken tables — can cause severe lacerations, leaving disfiguring scars and damaging tendons and nerves.

    “Huge shards of glass are basically like knives. If they sever an artery, they can cause uncontrolled bleeding, and the injury can be fatal,” says Amir Kimia of the Division of Emergency Medicine at Children’s Hospital Boston, who led the study.

    Last December, a Rhode Island girl died from a severe puncture wound to her leg. After earlier media reports about children seen at Children’s Hospital Boston with severe lacerations, Consumers Union collaborated with Kimia on a systematic study.
     
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/03/glass-tables-an-overlooked-safety-threat/

    Small pieces of shattered tempered glass is just as sharp, but as they shatter into small pieces, they don’t cut very deep.

    You might stay hours on the operating table to pick out glass fragments, but you don’t get disfiguring scares, as the wounds are only skin deep. From the guys I know who have been cut this way, both had fragments the doctors overlooked, coming out long after the cuts were healed.

  68. @robot
    aren't glass tables made with safety glass?

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    Some are, but there is no requirement.

    Safety glass can still break. It shatters into tiny pieces that are less dangerous than big shards. The main thing I learned googling this is that they are extremely dangerous either way and regularly kill children and severely injure adults.

    Glass patio tables also can spontaneously shatter from sudden temperature changes.

  69. The “rape culture” issue is a rare one I disagree with H-Mac. She says it is mostly BS but the main affect will be to discourage drunken college hookup culture, which itself is bad. But enjoyed my college years for just this reason.*

    Now if it discourages college attendance in general, especially kids ruining their lives with $150,000 in debt for low-value liberal arts degrees, she’s right.

    *I went to school at the best possible time: after grade inflation, but well before tuition inflation had reached its peak; after PCs replaced typewriters and word processors and the internet replaced slow and boring book library research; when student loans were at 2 and 3% and fixed for 30 years (now around 7.5%); after the big loosening of morals but before the big wave of feminist prudery took hold; just the 2000’s boom was heating up making summer and post-grad jobs easy to find. Also the dollar was at its peak value and European vacations were extremely cheap.

  70. OT: San Francisco swipple gets stabbed while defending his NAM girlfriend from harasser in the Tenderloin, proposes a crusade against catcalling:

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-stabbing-victim-We-need-to-end-catcalling-5910056.php

    Suspect is 100% descriptionless across at least 7 media outlets that I saw.

  71. Attention hogs like Jackie always feel as if they are not getting enough attention so they keep upping the stakes. Every time they re-tell the story, the details get more lurid and their victimhood even greater.

    My daughter had (note the past tense) a friend who was Jackie-type figure at her university – let’s call her “Jill”. Jill also attended a frat party early in her freshman year and “something happened”. Jill was from a very sheltered fundamentalist Christian background so her threshold for “something” was very low. In the initial telling, it was mild enough that her friends were not overly impressed – a drunken fratboy had rubbed up against her – not very nice but in the context of what goes on at frat parties, not the end of the world either. In later versions (and there were many later versions as she retold her story to anyone who would listen), the details got better and better each time. Jill must have learned to calibrate the heat of the story until it was sufficiently hot enough to evoke the desired gasps and empathy. My daughter was initially very supportive of her and went with Jill to the “rape crisis” center and listened to her endless repetitions of the story. My daughter noticed the inconsistencies of the retellings, but at first she attributed this to Jill’s trauma – maybe she had blacked out what happened at first but now she was recovering the real horrifying memories of what happened that night. Some of the details seemed a little off – somehow this had happened in a public place and yet there were no witnesses. Jill, who had been a brilliant student in high school, began falling apart mentally and flunked some of her courses, even though my daughter tried to help her.

    The end of the friendship came at a “Take Back the Night” rally where Jill tearfully stood and confessed her tale of woe to a large crowd, which included my daughter and their mutual friends, by invitation. “What I am about to tell you now, I have told no one, not even my mother”, she lied and then she began her spiel to the transfixed crowd. This was by far her biggest audience to date (though nowhere near the millions who have now heard “Jackie’s Story”). And then, to my daughter’s horror, she threw in the kicker – after she staggered home from her “rape”, her best friend (and here she gave enough details so that their mutual friends would know exactly who she was talking about), had coldly ignored her trauma and called her a liar. None of the authorities would believe her either – it was a hellish nightmare!

    In short, this was the Jackie story almost to a T (except Jill never got as far as claiming gang rape). You start with someone who is intelligent (and thus able to craft a good story) but of questionable mental soundness. Then there is some triggering event where their already fragile stability is upset. The incident is something bad, at least in their own eyes (but nowhere near as bad as will appear in the later retellings). Maybe the victim feels torn by guilt – that which she has been taught to consider sin actually felt kind of good for a moment there, until she “came to her senses” and realized, no, it really was a grievous sin. But no, the crisis counselor tells her, she never really gave her consent and so she is a blameless victim and not a willing participant. From there, the victim spirals downward, but somewhere along the way she discovers that her trauma is also her ticket to attention from others.

    Smart but mentally ill people, in their crazy way, have sensitive antenna as to what will resonate in their culture to evoke the most sympathy. The ones who are not that smart claim alien abduction or something that is ridiculous on its face, but the smart ones know (up to a point) how to tell a tale that will be believed by most (at least at first) because it fits prevailing prejudices. Perhaps in a different society, they would claim to be the victims of witches who have cast spells upon them or that they had been raped by a Negro, but in today’s society, blond frat boys seem to be the safe choice as designated bogeymen.

  72. Another issue is a prolonged gang rape would be pretty hard to pull off in the middle of a big party. The college parties I went to, all the rooms upstairs would be used to hold coats and to smoke pot.

    People would pop in and out, and open doors without knocking looking to smoke out or for a bathroom. Over a three hour period, even if locked, the door handle was probably wiggled 40 times and knocked on 20 times.

    The fellow freshmen also don’t sound like real 18 year olds. Is it really realistic that they would not be invited to parties because a friend “cried rape?” Like there is a big frat blacklist and they get together to share notes and add people to ban lists, including guilt by association? And how many 18 year olds have the mature and very politically incorrect “cry rape” phrase in their vocabulary?

    Another thing that doesn’t match my experience are the beer bottles. Every big party I went to had a keg and used big solo cups. People also did not hand girls drinks, except directly from the keg. Mixed drinks were made on a little table that had various bottles of liquor and mixers sitting on them. Beer bottles at a party with 100s of drunken kids would get broken all over the floor and quickly ruin the party. The liquor bottles too were generally 1.75L plastic bottles. (possible exception would be a closely guarded bottle of Gold Schlager)

    Finally, while I suppose the fetish exists, how many men really would be willing to not just have sex with “sloppy seconds” but fifths and sixths? That’s disgusting. And wholly unnecessary at a party full of drunk freshmen.

    Everyone is a sociopath in the article: the rapists, the college admins, and the freshmen friends. In reality, prestigious college students are among the most altruistic and idealistic cohort you can find.

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    You mean the people who end up getting jobs writing articles that promote the 1 in 5 statistic? The people who end up getting jobs promoting/lying about Obamacare? You mean the entire mainstream media? Those people are the most altruistic?

    Interesting definition of altruistic ya got there, buddy.

    , @The Practical Conservative
    You mean the people who end up getting jobs writing articles that promote the 1 in 5 statistic? The people who end up getting jobs promoting/lying about Obamacare? You mean the entire mainstream media? Those people are the most altruistic?

    ORLY.
  73. @syonredux

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     

    Although glass doors and windshields are mandated to contain tempered glass, which is four to five times stronger than standard glass and breaks into small fragments that are unlikely to cause injury, no such mandates apply to glass tables, whether patio or indoor furniture. Injuries are typically caused when children jump, sit, or fall on glass tables or knock them over. The shattered glass — or jagged edges of broken tables — can cause severe lacerations, leaving disfiguring scars and damaging tendons and nerves.

    “Huge shards of glass are basically like knives. If they sever an artery, they can cause uncontrolled bleeding, and the injury can be fatal,” says Amir Kimia of the Division of Emergency Medicine at Children’s Hospital Boston, who led the study.

    Last December, a Rhode Island girl died from a severe puncture wound to her leg. After earlier media reports about children seen at Children’s Hospital Boston with severe lacerations, Consumers Union collaborated with Kimia on a systematic study.
     
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/03/glass-tables-an-overlooked-safety-threat/

    > aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    I searched Google Images with “glass table broken” and similar word combinations. Well over 95% of the relevant images show tables that had been made with safety (tempered) glass. (The majority were patio furniture, which may tilt towards safety glass by custom or regulation.)

    It seems more plausible than I had initially expected, that a frat house coffee table would have been made with safety glass.

    Author Rubin Erdely does relate Jackie’s description of “sharp shards digging into her back”. As pointed out at Richard Bradley’s post, the virtue of safety glass is that it tends to produce granular chunks rather than jagged shards.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    I searched Google Images with “glass table broken” and similar word combinations. Well over 95% of the relevant images show tables that had been made with safety (tempered) glass. (The majority were patio furniture, which may tilt towards safety glass by custom or regulation.)

    It seems more plausible than I had initially expected, that a frat house coffee table would have been made with safety glass.

    Author Rubin Erdely does relate Jackie’s description of “sharp shards digging into her back”. As pointed out at Richard Bradley’s post, the virtue of safety glass is that it tends to produce granular chunks rather than jagged shards.

     

    Well, all I can say is that there does not appear to be a legal requirement for safety glass in furniture (at least not in 2009; perhaps the laws have been changed), and injuries do occur:

    Using a computer algorithm to search electronic records, Kimia and colleagues identified 174 glass-table injuries logged by Children’s emergency department between 1995 and 2007. On reviewing the patients’ charts, they concluded that half of the injuries would have been preventable or less severe with safety glass.

    Almost two-thirds of patients were boys, and the median age was 3.4 years. Cuts were most often on the face, especially in young children, followed by feet, legs, hands, and arms. Forty percent of patients needed imaging to find buried pieces of glass, and 80 percent needed surgical repair.

    Kimia notes that although some glass furniture uses tempered glass, there’s no way to tell by simply looking at it. Promulgation of mandatory standards can ensure that all glass furniture manufactured in the future will enhance the safety of furniture with glass.
     
    Personally, I'm inclined to doubt the glass table aspect of the story.The rape is, after all, presented to us as a premeditated fraternity initiation ritual.That being the case, they would have prepared the room well beforehand and moved the glass table well out of the way.
  74. I also don’t understand how she could lie down on the floor over a broken glass table. While the glass might break, the usually metal frame of a coffee table would not have. You can’t lie on top of a coffee table frame.

    Also, what frat that has parties all the time has glass furniture, especially easy to break glass furniture, and stores it in a bedroom? Who has coffee tables in their bedroom of any sort, much less their “rape room?”

  75. From the Taki’s piece:

    “Something deeply upsetting likely happened to Jackie, too, but exactly what is a mystery.”

    Right. Erdely knows there’s enough truth to this story to prevent a Duke-style meltdown, even if she got carried away with flubbing all the details. So we can’t really call it a “hoax.”

    But anyway, nice job, Steve. This story is now the top article on the Washington Post page.

  76. http://www.newsmax.com/US/university-of-virginia-gang-rape-fraternity-Rolling-Stone/2014/12/03/id/610749/?ns_mail_uid=95521983&ns_mail_job=1597931_12032014&s=al&dkt_nbr=wi4qrhkr
    This source is somewhere between the Globe and the Enquirer, but it is one more example of journalists starting to question the story.

  77. Seems like there is an easy way to confirm her story. If ‘Jackie’ has scars all over her back (from the broken glass), then she’s most likely telling the truth. But if her back is lacking these scars, then we know that this part of the story isn’t true.

  78. And we are once again reminded of Janet Malcolm’s famous line: “Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible.”

    Erdely doesn’t seem too stupid to me. Was she too full of herself to consider that it might not be kind, exploiting the probable confabulations of a disturbed woman for the sake of a dramatic narrative?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. The word "hoax" is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she's had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.
    , @dearieme
    "it might not be kind, exploiting the probable confabulations of a disturbed woman": well said, sir.
  79. Chattering classes on shattering glasses.

    Glass War than Class War.

  80. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    Hammers and glass.

    Forget the real hammers and fixate on the mythical glass.

    Still, the fact that some degree of skepticism developed around this story shows that even the MSM got burned too many times.

    Maybe just maybe this story is real, but ‘Jackie’ sure made a mess of it, and the reporter did a shoddy job, more to promote herself than serve any real justice.

    Not so much a case of ‘never cry wolf’ but ‘if you’re going to cry wolf, don’t wait 2 yrs’.

  81. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    There is a BIRTH OF A NATION-like scene in ENTER THE DRAGON. A big white guy(Bob Wall) chases after Angela Mao(who plays Bruce Lee’s sister) to rape her, and she is beaten by him and his thugs. But instead of giving into the eeeeeeeeeeevil white man, she saves her honor by doing harakiri or hongkongfuey(as the case may be) with a shard of glass.

    So, if a white woman kills herself for honor in BIRTH, that is ‘racist’. When a yellow woman does it(when chased by white guy), it’s tragic and moving.

    ————

    One thing about Richard Bradley. He’s a jerk for having WANTED TO BELIEVE that all those anti-white stories were true. With stuff like Duke Lacrosse case, he was disappointed that they were bogus.
    And if he’s more skeptical now than before, it’s only because he doesn’t to be made a fool again, not because he doesn’t want to believe white males are cretins.

  82. Not only does a glass ceiling keep women down, a glass floor is for raping them.

    Is this glass half-full or half-empty?

    If she wants to see violence and glass together, just go to Ferguson. Broken glass strewn all over the place.

    UNBREAKABLE. “They call me Mr. Glass!”

    He the one?

  83. As you’ve noted, in the cases like Ferguson and Zimmerman, the media seems to pick the worst cases to hone in on – and by “worst” I mean the one’s where any thoughtful person could see that the narrative is almost certain to unravel upon investigation. I’ve come to wonder if, from their point of view, this is a feature, not a bug. Perhaps they understand that the groups who they wish to stir up are going to have irrevocably made up their minds long before the actual facts are known, so this will make the inevitable acquital seem all the more unjust to them, thereby allowing a much longer period of unrest and outrage. What mileage would they get out of a legitimate case in which justice is promptly served?

  84. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.

    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?

    • Replies: @Anon
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    None of those excerpted statements corroborate Jackie's story.
    , @syonredux

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     
    Ah, sorority folk-tales as evidence.Instead of the story of the killer with a hook for a hand, let's tell the one about the coke bottle rapist":I knew this girl who told me that there was a fraternity where the pledges have to rape a girl with a coke bottle to get in."

    And when I was growing up in Northern California I told, in all seriousness, about the "lights out" gang initiation ritual. They drive around at night with their lights off, waiting for someone to blink their lights at them as a friendly warning.When that happens, they pull out their guns and start shooting. This is totally true.It happened to a friend of a friend* of mine.


    *Folklorists call this the F.O.A.F.
    , @Priss Factor
    "I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation."

    It may well be true. The real issue isn't "did it happen or not happen" but the idiocy of the victim(if she was a victim) and the sensationalism of the journalism. When it's handled this stupidly and badly, we don't know what is and isn't true. Journalism shouldn't play Rashomon.

    Rapist guys are scum, but in many cases in college, it takes two to tango or bango. A lot of girls act like sluts and lead men on.. and when things get out of hand, they cry foul.
    If you lead men on in a hormone fueled environment, you are playing with fire. Even if rapists should still be accused, convicted, and jailed, girls should learn to act more proper and stop acting like easy sluts.
    If you put yourself in a world where boys play rough, don't be too surprised if things get rough. Also, if you don't want boys to act rough, don't lead them out... as when the lust comes out, even men can't control themselves.
    It's like if a child plays rough with a dog, the aggressive side of the dog might emerge and maul the kid. Then, the kid will cry and play the helpless victim.

    It's like what Edward says in TWILIGHT. When vampires taste blood--even just a little bit--, a kind of frenzy takes over and they lose control of themselves. Most college guys boozed on alcohol, sports culture, and loud music are NOT Carlisle(the saint of vampires). They are raging with hormones and trying to keep control. But they want sex, and if they think they can have some, a kind of 'frenzy' can take place.

    So, boys behave... but girls better behave to so that boys won't be encouraged to act like frenzied vampires.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDkKX50q9HU

    http://youtu.be/sSB82RNHtM4?t=37s

    Look at fatty Americans. Is it cuz they wanna be fat? No, they can't help themselves when they see all that cheapie food. They know they shouldn't eat it. They know too much food will turn them into uglyass fatsos and ruin their health. But they still pig out. When they smell them greasy fries, chicken, ice cream, and chocolate, one bite won't suffice. They eat and eat and eat until belly full.
    Young men, with booze/drugs/sports/music, can feel the same way about a woman if she plays slut. If you poke holes in a dam, don't be too surprised if the whole thing bursts.

    I know of a girl who kept on teasing and fooling around with a boy with a bad reputation. When I heard he raped her, I wasn't surprised. She didn't report it to the police out of shame, but she had it coming even if she didn't deserve it.

    PS. Why are rapists called rapists and not rapers? It's an act, not an ideology.

    , @syonredux

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     
    Ah, sorority folk-tales as evidence.Instead of the story of the killer with a hook for a hand, let’s tell the one about the coke bottle rapist”:I knew this girl who told me that there was a fraternity where the pledges have to rape a girl with a coke bottle to get in.”

    And when I was growing up in Northern California I was told, in all seriousness, about the “lights out” gang initiation ritual. They drive around at night with their lights off, waiting for someone to blink their lights at them as a friendly warning.When that happens, they pull out their guns and start shooting. This is totally true.It happened to a friend of a friend* of mine.

    *Folklorists call this the F.O.A.F.
    , @Rapparee
    "She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime."

    This is the elephant in the room for the "Rape Culture" debate, and something feminist agitators would rather sweep under the rug. Rigorous studies on the issue of campus rape (most notably those of Dr. David Lisak) reliably conclude that about 90% of all rapes on campus take place at the hands of a few serial rapists, comprising a tiny fraction of the male half of the student body. The problem is not, as feminists allege, that campus culture "institutionalizes" rape. The problem is that campus culture promotes binge drinking and casual sex, which in turn provides a fertile hunting ground for a handful of dedicated predators. (Not all of them are students, either- as an undergraduate, my wife once had to intervene to separate her inebriated friend from a man quite literally twice the girl's age, who obviously had unwholesome designs on the young lady. Nobody knew whence he had come, or who had invited him.) "Teaching our sons not to rape" is a pointless exercise in misandric browbeating, since over 90% of young men already don't rape, and the ones who do certainly aren't dissuaded by sensitivity workshops. The only way to stop the predators is to put a stop to drunken hook-ups. Ending co-ed dorms might actually do some good (in schools without fraternities and sororities), but that's a crowning achievement of the "Sixties People" in their takeover of the universities, so it'll never happen.

    Of course, certain alt-right conservatives also miss this point, being too quick to dismiss allegations with "She's crying rape because he never called the next morning". If a serial date-rapist averages about six victims, and maybe 1%-3% of male students are serial rapists, then a large school with 10,000 students might house on campus, at any one time, the victims of around 300-900 separate rapes (not necessarily 300-900 rape victims, though, if certain unfortunate women fall victim repeatedly, which seems likely). That's not a small number. Thus, when a woman says "I know lots of girls who've been raped", and a man says "I don't know any man who's ever raped anyone", they're probably both telling the truth as they know it. Their mutual incomprehension is good for the professional grievance-mongers, though, so nobody ever injects sanity into the discussion.
  85. My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction, and before skepticism was voiced here and on Bradley’s blog. I was less willing to dismiss it as fake … probably because I’m more trusting in general, but also because I was impressed by Caitlin Flanagan’s excellent piece, “The Dark Power of Fraternities,” last year in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/). To be sure, Flanagan doesn’t cite any instances of gang rape or anything as brutal as this UVA case. But there does seem to be a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse, and a lot of people getting injured at fraternity houses, and no administrative will to crack down on fraternity misbehavior. I wonder what Flanagan’s opinion of the Rolling Stone piece is.

    Speaking of quality female journalists and literary fraud, Charlotte Allen covered the Zizek plagiarism case back in July (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fetish-zizek_800372.html). And I was surprised to hear that Sailer never responded to her request for comment?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Caitlin Flanagan, who is a good journalist, wrote that in investigating her denunciation of fraternities she never heard of anything this bad.

    I'm sorry I didn't see Charlotte Allen's email about Zizek.

    , @Anon
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction

    What is a DH?
    , @dearieme
    "a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse": aha, is that what this is about?
    , @DPG
    Fraternities are punished regularly, but it's done quietly and on an ad hoc basis. At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two. They would have to be recolonized, and the kids recruited to recolonize (often the recruitment effort spearheaded by hoary chapter alumni and the national fraternity's upstanding field secretaries) were bookish types who didn't want to deal with the competitive nature of rush and the subsequent hazing. After a few years they would attract mild-mannered guys who were a bit cooler than the initial colony, but didn't quite fit in with the party hardy crowd. Their reputation would start to improve and the cycle would start anew. They'd be on the path to being kicked off campus again in 15-20 years.

    I'll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it's really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen.
  86. Props to Steve for helping turn Bradley’s smoldering tinder into what will surely become yet another bonfire of the vanities.

    But now that cat’s out of the bag… Old news, old news. Nothing to see here, move along. LOL

    OTOH, of late there’s been an ever-so-slow improvement in how aggressively the Left is being called out on their propaganda. Stuff like this piece at The Federalist puts enough stuff in one place that it’s hard not to notice.

  87. Well Steve, you and all the other evil skeptics and doubters have egg on your face because the police have already caught and charged the college gang rapers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2857152/Female-student-held-captive-darkened-William-Paterson-University-dorm-room-raped-five-men.html

    I just can’t understand why there has been no national media follow up on the story.

  88. I think that, at this point, using the glass shards problem as evidence that the story is false is probably unnecessary — the story is falling apart on its own, and I can’t imagine it being defended even by the worst hacks for much longer. (Well, OK, the worst hacks will keep it up. But not the next to the worst.)

    Insofar as it’s useful to think about all this glass, it’s as a literary device, and so discussion should be in the form of literary criticism–much as Steve has pursued it. It’s like a movie review (another favorite of Steve’s), not journalism.

    • Replies: @John Cunningham
    I have not been able to track it down just now, but a blog comment claimed that the UVA frat claimed that no member in 2012 was ever employed at the aquatic center, where the victim claimed to be a coworker with the frat member who set her up. also, the frat noted that it conducts rush in the spring of the academic year, not the fall, when Jackie said that rape by pledges occurred. they also noted that they are required to register all frat parties with the college admin, and that none was held on sept, 28.
    I think there are way too many signs of hoaxing to credit any of her story.
  89. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Yup, Sabrina is definitely nursing a grudge of some sort.

    The student body is just ‘overwhelmingly blonde’ down in those parts…something MUST be amiss!

    UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn’t put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools ‘just didn’t feel right’

    • Replies: @691
    Erdely is clearly an Ivy League homer, having worked with Stephen Glass in college at the UPenn newspaper. Better not let those 2nd tier schools get uppity.
    , @Anon
    Yup, Sabrina is definitely nursing a grudge of some sort.

    The student body is just ‘overwhelmingly blonde’ down in those parts…something MUST be amiss!


    Probably pure malice, and not a grudge.
  90. @ic1000
    > aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?

    I searched Google Images with "glass table broken" and similar word combinations. Well over 95% of the relevant images show tables that had been made with safety (tempered) glass. (The majority were patio furniture, which may tilt towards safety glass by custom or regulation.)

    It seems more plausible than I had initially expected, that a frat house coffee table would have been made with safety glass.

    Author Rubin Erdely does relate Jackie's description of "sharp shards digging into her back". As pointed out at Richard Bradley's post, the virtue of safety glass is that it tends to produce granular chunks rather than jagged shards.

    I searched Google Images with “glass table broken” and similar word combinations. Well over 95% of the relevant images show tables that had been made with safety (tempered) glass. (The majority were patio furniture, which may tilt towards safety glass by custom or regulation.)

    It seems more plausible than I had initially expected, that a frat house coffee table would have been made with safety glass.

    Author Rubin Erdely does relate Jackie’s description of “sharp shards digging into her back”. As pointed out at Richard Bradley’s post, the virtue of safety glass is that it tends to produce granular chunks rather than jagged shards.

    Well, all I can say is that there does not appear to be a legal requirement for safety glass in furniture (at least not in 2009; perhaps the laws have been changed), and injuries do occur:

    Using a computer algorithm to search electronic records, Kimia and colleagues identified 174 glass-table injuries logged by Children’s emergency department between 1995 and 2007. On reviewing the patients’ charts, they concluded that half of the injuries would have been preventable or less severe with safety glass.

    Almost two-thirds of patients were boys, and the median age was 3.4 years. Cuts were most often on the face, especially in young children, followed by feet, legs, hands, and arms. Forty percent of patients needed imaging to find buried pieces of glass, and 80 percent needed surgical repair.

    Kimia notes that although some glass furniture uses tempered glass, there’s no way to tell by simply looking at it. Promulgation of mandatory standards can ensure that all glass furniture manufactured in the future will enhance the safety of furniture with glass.

    Personally, I’m inclined to doubt the glass table aspect of the story.The rape is, after all, presented to us as a premeditated fraternity initiation ritual.That being the case, they would have prepared the room well beforehand and moved the glass table well out of the way.

  91. It seems as if most of the people who read Steve don’t want to admit reading Steve, Like they’re afraid of the consequences.

    Kinda like how in the Soviet Union people didn’t want the KGB to know that they knew certain people. Now, the idea that a cadre of powerful politically extreme ideologues have a secret spy organization that will ruin people’s lives if the people are caught knowing or reading the works of dissidents…it’s just silly…this is the U.S. of A and all that….

    Hey, weren’t the 1960s onward just plain weird and counterintuitive? What up with that?

  92. Annealed glass when it breaks produces deadly shards. Tempered glass breaks into small pebble-like pieces. Except these “pebbles” of tempered glass are still as sharp as hell. Try rutting around on top of a layer of broken tempered glass pieces for three hours and I can assure you there will be a whole lot of blood. And these little pieces would certainly find there way into very uncomfortable places. It is out of the question that they broke even a tempered glass table and continued a three hour gang rape on top of the resulting tiny shards. Jackie would have had to go to a hospital to have all the pieces removed from her backside and other more sensitive areas. And the dudes would have at least had them embedded at least in around their knees.

  93. It’s all about the narrative and the truth be d**ned. The 5 W’s of reporting are long dead and buried. The prestige media has a narrative to promote and they won’t let anything, even the truth to get in the way of that narrative.

    It’s time that people treat the prestige news media the same way ordinary Russians treated Pravda and Tass when the Soviets were running the shop.

    • Replies: @Anon
    The 5 W’s of reporting are long dead and buried.

    What are the 5 Ws of reporting.
  94. RE: influences on Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s article,

    A lot of people have commented on how the use of “it” for the victim sounds lifted from The Silence of the Lambs (“It puts the lotion on its skin,” etc). I am curious as to whether the pitch-black room room motif was not also lifted from the book/film. Again, as others have noted, the darkness of the room seems odd. If it’s that black, how can the gang of rapists see her? Wouldn’t that hinder their planned activities?

    Well, in Silence there is a sequence where the killer traps Clarice in his cellar and turns off the lights.It’s pitch-black, and she cannot see a thing. The killer (“Buffalo Bill”) is equipped with night vision goggles and can see her quite clearly.In the book, we get the added detail that Buffalo Bill has trapped women in his dark cellar before, and played sinister cat and mouse games with them.He gets off on putting on his night vision goggles and watching them stumble about in their blind terror.

    Maybe that sequence played into the dark room scenario? Maybe in an earlier draft they had on night vision goggles but that detail was dropped because it sounded a bit too thriller novel-esque?

  95. @Anon
    Yup, Sabrina is definitely nursing a grudge of some sort.

    The student body is just 'overwhelmingly blonde' down in those parts...something MUST be amiss!

    UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn't put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools 'just didn't feel right'

    Erdely is clearly an Ivy League homer, having worked with Stephen Glass in college at the UPenn newspaper. Better not let those 2nd tier schools get uppity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I'm sure that was part of it, but the frats and the frat parties at the Ivies are also much milder than at places like UVA.
  96. @Uptown Resident
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction, and before skepticism was voiced here and on Bradley's blog. I was less willing to dismiss it as fake ... probably because I'm more trusting in general, but also because I was impressed by Caitlin Flanagan's excellent piece, "The Dark Power of Fraternities," last year in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/). To be sure, Flanagan doesn't cite any instances of gang rape or anything as brutal as this UVA case. But there does seem to be a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse, and a lot of people getting injured at fraternity houses, and no administrative will to crack down on fraternity misbehavior. I wonder what Flanagan's opinion of the Rolling Stone piece is.

    Speaking of quality female journalists and literary fraud, Charlotte Allen covered the Zizek plagiarism case back in July (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fetish-zizek_800372.html). And I was surprised to hear that Sailer never responded to her request for comment?

    Caitlin Flanagan, who is a good journalist, wrote that in investigating her denunciation of fraternities she never heard of anything this bad.

    I’m sorry I didn’t see Charlotte Allen’s email about Zizek.

  97. Another possible influence also comes to mind.A lot of ink has been spilled on the Muslim rape “grooming” gangs in England.Vulnerable girls are approached by a, presumably, more presentable member of the gang. He then lures her to a spot where she can be gang-raped.

    Doesn’t this read a bit like that scenario?Only now the politically unacceptable image of South Asian rape gangs is swapped for something more pleasing to the PC mindset: White Frat boys.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The audience for these kinds of articles - middle and upper-middle class whites - tend to go to, or know people who got to, have daughters who go to, etc., places like UVA, so they're going to be more interested regardless.
  98. @Chip Smith
    And we are once again reminded of Janet Malcolm's famous line: "Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible."

    Erdely doesn't seem too stupid to me. Was she too full of herself to consider that it might not be kind, exploiting the probable confabulations of a disturbed woman for the sake of a dramatic narrative?

    Right. The word “hoax” is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she’s had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What most likely happened is that Jackie got really drunk at a frat party and screwed a bunch of guys at once. Afterwards she was known as "that girl" and obviously regretted it and felt embarrassed. According to libs/feminists, this can qualify as rape. That's probably why Jackie and the author of the piece can so confidently paint this as an instance of rape.
    , @syonredux

    Right. The word “hoax” is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she’s had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.
     
    I'm perfectly willing to believe that something bad happened to Jackie; maybe this "Drew" guy got her drunk/high and raped her. Maybe her mind has warped ordinary evil into screenplay evil.
    , @Peter Akuleyev

    she tends to invent some details and downplay others.
     
    I assume that her counselors, peers and Erdely probably encouraged her fantasies, to the point where Jackie herself probably doesn't know the truth. Naturally every time she added a more gruesome detail to the story, the more attention and sympathy she got. It wouldn't be hard for a nasty but mundane story like "I got drunk and my date and his room-mate raped me" to morph into this gothic horror story.

    Now, thanks to these efforts at "consciousness raising", even if Jackie really was raped her story is now so muddled that she can't hope to press charges and will probably be branded publicly as a delusional liar. Nice job, Erdely, hope you are proud of yourself.
    , @candid_observer
    My own guess is that there isn't an ounce of truth to any of the story. No possible truth is close enough to the fabrication to serve as any kind of plausible starting point.

    I've met a couple of people who lie like that. It takes a little time to get used to the idea of someone lying with zero basis in reality, and doing so regularly and spectacularly, but it happens.

    The question of whether there is any truth to the story is, to me, about the only interesting thing about it that remains genuinely open.
  99. @691
    Erdely is clearly an Ivy League homer, having worked with Stephen Glass in college at the UPenn newspaper. Better not let those 2nd tier schools get uppity.

    I’m sure that was part of it, but the frats and the frat parties at the Ivies are also much milder than at places like UVA.

  100. @Paleo Retiree
    Great article and awesome work on this topic generally.

    Interesting cultureworld note: one of the bigger and more dramatic divisions (in terms of point of view, temperament, values, taste-set, etc) is between the northeastern intellectual set and the southern set. They really revile each other, and have zero comprehension of and sympathy for each other. The northeastern intellectuals are infuriated by the southerners' pacing, stateliness, preference for classical tradition and attachment to the land (and, of course, supposed racism), while the southerners feel really offended, misunderstood and angered by the kind of flashy grandstanding and displays of ego and self-importance the northeasterners are prone to.

    The black intellectual Albert Murray, who never made much of an impact on the northeasterners until late in life (even though he lived in Harlem for decades) once said to me something like, "The NYC crowd" -- and by this we both knew he was talking about Jewish intellectuals -- "never got my work. But the southern boys did."

    Norman Podhoretz’s memoir of the 1960s has a section about all the Southern writers moving to New York City and taking over. Midge Decter says that if the southerners could pass up a drink they’d take over.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    He was very resentful of their liberal racial guilt, having grown up terrified of blacks in Brooklyn.

    BTW, WWT is breaking out in....Minnesota. Yes. Minnesota.

  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Right. The word "hoax" is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she's had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    What most likely happened is that Jackie got really drunk at a frat party and screwed a bunch of guys at once. Afterwards she was known as “that girl” and obviously regretted it and felt embarrassed. According to libs/feminists, this can qualify as rape. That’s probably why Jackie and the author of the piece can so confidently paint this as an instance of rape.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.
  102. Re: the broken glass metaphor. Charlie Kaufman alludes to how cliche it is in “Adaptation” by having Charlie’s dumb twin, Donald, use broken mirrors as a visual motif in his screenplay. Donald is following the advice of Bob the screenwriting instructor that an “Image System greatly increases the complexity of an aesthetic emotion.”

    DONALD
    Cool! Hey, my script’s going amazing!
    Right now I’m working out an Image
    System. Bob calls it an invaluable
    asset. Because of my multiple
    personality theme, I’ve chosen the motif
    of broken mirrors to show my
    protagonist’s fragmented self. Bob
    teaches that an Image System greatly
    increases the complexity of an aesthetic
    emotion.

  103. @Steve Sailer
    Right. The word "hoax" is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she's had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    Right. The word “hoax” is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she’s had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    I’m perfectly willing to believe that something bad happened to Jackie; maybe this “Drew” guy got her drunk/high and raped her. Maybe her mind has warped ordinary evil into screenplay evil.

    • Replies: @Sean
    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don't think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they'd been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen, and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.
  104. @syonredux
    Another possible influence also comes to mind.A lot of ink has been spilled on the Muslim rape "grooming" gangs in England.Vulnerable girls are approached by a, presumably, more presentable member of the gang. He then lures her to a spot where she can be gang-raped.

    Doesn't this read a bit like that scenario?Only now the politically unacceptable image of South Asian rape gangs is swapped for something more pleasing to the PC mindset: White Frat boys.

    The audience for these kinds of articles – middle and upper-middle class whites – tend to go to, or know people who got to, have daughters who go to, etc., places like UVA, so they’re going to be more interested regardless.

  105. @rod1963
    It's all about the narrative and the truth be d**ned. The 5 W's of reporting are long dead and buried. The prestige media has a narrative to promote and they won't let anything, even the truth to get in the way of that narrative.

    It's time that people treat the prestige news media the same way ordinary Russians treated Pravda and Tass when the Soviets were running the shop.

    The 5 W’s of reporting are long dead and buried.

    What are the 5 Ws of reporting.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    who what when where why
  106. “Doesn’t this read a bit like that scenario?Only now the politically unacceptable image of South Asian rape gangs is swapped for something more pleasing to the PC mindset: White Frat boys.”

    Left WingFeminists would probably call you a racist if you said the vast majority of pimps in the world who run prostitution rings are Nonwhite men, not White frat boys.

    Even the marxist commie Feminists know race trumps gender.

  107. Glass Menagerie

  108. @Anon
    Yup, Sabrina is definitely nursing a grudge of some sort.

    The student body is just 'overwhelmingly blonde' down in those parts...something MUST be amiss!

    UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn't put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools 'just didn't feel right'

    Yup, Sabrina is definitely nursing a grudge of some sort.

    The student body is just ‘overwhelmingly blonde’ down in those parts…something MUST be amiss!

    Probably pure malice, and not a grudge.

  109. @Uptown Resident
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction, and before skepticism was voiced here and on Bradley's blog. I was less willing to dismiss it as fake ... probably because I'm more trusting in general, but also because I was impressed by Caitlin Flanagan's excellent piece, "The Dark Power of Fraternities," last year in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/). To be sure, Flanagan doesn't cite any instances of gang rape or anything as brutal as this UVA case. But there does seem to be a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse, and a lot of people getting injured at fraternity houses, and no administrative will to crack down on fraternity misbehavior. I wonder what Flanagan's opinion of the Rolling Stone piece is.

    Speaking of quality female journalists and literary fraud, Charlotte Allen covered the Zizek plagiarism case back in July (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fetish-zizek_800372.html). And I was surprised to hear that Sailer never responded to her request for comment?

    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction

    What is a DH?

    • Replies: @Uptown Resident
    Oh, sorry, "DH" must be an abbreviation common on women's forums. lol. I'm pretty sure it means "Dear Husband."
  110. @Anonymous
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.



    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     

    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    None of those excerpted statements corroborate Jackie’s story.

  111. Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.
     
    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.
  112. @Steve Sailer
    Right. The word "hoax" is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she's had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    I assume that her counselors, peers and Erdely probably encouraged her fantasies, to the point where Jackie herself probably doesn’t know the truth. Naturally every time she added a more gruesome detail to the story, the more attention and sympathy she got. It wouldn’t be hard for a nasty but mundane story like “I got drunk and my date and his room-mate raped me” to morph into this gothic horror story.

    Now, thanks to these efforts at “consciousness raising”, even if Jackie really was raped her story is now so muddled that she can’t hope to press charges and will probably be branded publicly as a delusional liar. Nice job, Erdely, hope you are proud of yourself.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    She's the star of her rape survivor support group because she's got the most horrifying story.
  113. Annealed glass when it breaks produces deadly shards. Tempered glass breaks into small pebble-like pieces. Except these “pebbles” of tempered glass are still as sharp as hell.

    -Torn and frayed

    Yes, that’s right. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I’ve had a couple unfortunate experiences with tempered glass. It does mostly break into little chunks, but there are also lots of tiny slivers in it that are extremely sharp and cause a lot of superficial bleeding. Furthermore, it is strong enough that breaking it requires enough force to cause serious injury regardless of cuts (try kicking out a car window — most people can’t because it takes a good deal of force). If the scene described involved safety glass, it would be like falling backward on hardwood with someone on top of you (likely to cause serious injury itself), and then being assaulted for three hours on top of a layer of little glass cubes and slivers, which would pretty much grind someone’s back into hamburger.

    The idea that someone could just walk away from that and have their friends tell them to sleep it off is beyond belief.

  114. @Chip Smith
    And we are once again reminded of Janet Malcolm's famous line: "Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible."

    Erdely doesn't seem too stupid to me. Was she too full of herself to consider that it might not be kind, exploiting the probable confabulations of a disturbed woman for the sake of a dramatic narrative?

    “it might not be kind, exploiting the probable confabulations of a disturbed woman”: well said, sir.

  115. @Anonymous
    What most likely happened is that Jackie got really drunk at a frat party and screwed a bunch of guys at once. Afterwards she was known as "that girl" and obviously regretted it and felt embarrassed. According to libs/feminists, this can qualify as rape. That's probably why Jackie and the author of the piece can so confidently paint this as an instance of rape.

    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right, but in most cases nothing comes of it. The girl is embarrassed and regrets it the next morning, but she doesn't feel she was victimized and doesn't dwell on it and tries to forget about it. It ends up being an inside story for the frat brothers and close friends to high five about. And that's pretty much it. It doesn't turn into a giant sh*tstorm.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    Only in the unlikely event that they found themselves, at one of their parties, in the presence of ladylike behavior.

  116. BBC – “Are the media ignoring another St Louis killing?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-30287363

    By Anthony Zurcher – Editor, Echo Chambers

    Never heard of him, but from his mealy-mouthed piece he’s not exactly bias-free.

    “Beyond the local reaction, the story has gained traction among conservative commentators and bloggers, who view it as an example of media and liberal activist hypocrisy for expressing outrage over Brown’s death but ignoring the Begic attack.

    If the episode can somehow be linked to the Ferguson demonstrations, that fact could be used to discredit the protest as a whole, characterising it as the work of lawless and violent malcontents (a theme also raised during recent episodes of looting and vandalism).”

    Daniel H has a good link, btw. A current example of (alleged) campus gang rape, and it’s not all over the media ? It’s almost as if the campaign’s not about campus gang rape at all!

  117. @Uptown Resident
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction, and before skepticism was voiced here and on Bradley's blog. I was less willing to dismiss it as fake ... probably because I'm more trusting in general, but also because I was impressed by Caitlin Flanagan's excellent piece, "The Dark Power of Fraternities," last year in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/). To be sure, Flanagan doesn't cite any instances of gang rape or anything as brutal as this UVA case. But there does seem to be a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse, and a lot of people getting injured at fraternity houses, and no administrative will to crack down on fraternity misbehavior. I wonder what Flanagan's opinion of the Rolling Stone piece is.

    Speaking of quality female journalists and literary fraud, Charlotte Allen covered the Zizek plagiarism case back in July (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fetish-zizek_800372.html). And I was surprised to hear that Sailer never responded to her request for comment?

    “a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse”: aha, is that what this is about?

  118. @Peter Akuleyev

    she tends to invent some details and downplay others.
     
    I assume that her counselors, peers and Erdely probably encouraged her fantasies, to the point where Jackie herself probably doesn't know the truth. Naturally every time she added a more gruesome detail to the story, the more attention and sympathy she got. It wouldn't be hard for a nasty but mundane story like "I got drunk and my date and his room-mate raped me" to morph into this gothic horror story.

    Now, thanks to these efforts at "consciousness raising", even if Jackie really was raped her story is now so muddled that she can't hope to press charges and will probably be branded publicly as a delusional liar. Nice job, Erdely, hope you are proud of yourself.

    She’s the star of her rape survivor support group because she’s got the most horrifying story.

  119. @syonredux

    Right. The word “hoax” is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she’s had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.
     
    I'm perfectly willing to believe that something bad happened to Jackie; maybe this "Drew" guy got her drunk/high and raped her. Maybe her mind has warped ordinary evil into screenplay evil.

    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don’t think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they’d been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen, and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities should have minimal standards of behavior of never more than one brother having sex with a guest in their house in one night. If they really want to violate that rule, go to a Las Vegas hotel and hire a professional.
    , @syonredux

    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don’t think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they’d been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen,
     
    Sure, gang rapes happen.It's just that the details of this alleged gang rape sound rather.....baroque.

    and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.
     
    I would argue that it is an assumption that the article wants us to make
  120. @Anon
    The 5 W’s of reporting are long dead and buried.

    What are the 5 Ws of reporting.

    who what when where why

  121. @Anonymous
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.



    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?

    Ah, sorority folk-tales as evidence.Instead of the story of the killer with a hook for a hand, let’s tell the one about the coke bottle rapist”:I knew this girl who told me that there was a fraternity where the pledges have to rape a girl with a coke bottle to get in.”

    And when I was growing up in Northern California I told, in all seriousness, about the “lights out” gang initiation ritual. They drive around at night with their lights off, waiting for someone to blink their lights at them as a friendly warning.When that happens, they pull out their guns and start shooting. This is totally true.It happened to a friend of a friend* of mine.

    *Folklorists call this the F.O.A.F.

  122. Steve-
    I don’t mean to pile on a fellow writer, but you might be interested in the recent post by Rod Dreher addressing this situation. In it, he seems to be repeating what appears to be the conventional wisdom with regards to the situation: specifically, that the writer of the original article didn’t try hard enough to contact the alleged rapist (I think ‘Drew’ is meant, even though ‘Drew’ isn’t supposed to have actually been one of the rapists). He quotes a Washington Post article, which brings up a basic journalistic practice of attempting to contact the accused.

    What’s interesting about this whole line of thought is that it takes the onus of failure off of the credulous readers (Rod Dreher, the administration of UVA, the commetariat in general), and places it back on the original writer.

    In other words, the entire spun up crisis is based on incredibly lazy and noncritical reading on the part of just about everybody (i..e while the writer did a poor-and perhaps dishonest- job of writing, the social problem is, essentially, poor reading by everybody else). But if the REAL problem is that the writer of the Rolling Stone article just didn’t make enough phone calls, then responsibility is shifted; all of those dupes who bought the preposterous story aren’t responsible for their naivete. It really is fascinating to see this dance being played out.

    joeyjoejoe

  123. Numerous identity politics uproars, such as Ferguson, Trayvon, and Duke Lacrosse, have turned out to be humiliating fiascos for the national press when all the facts are finally toted up.

    It would be nice if that was the case, but it’s not. Nobody in the press was forced to take any punishment for their disgraceful behavior in any of these media-driven frenzies. If Sabrina Ederly gets fired by RS (unlikely in itself) she’ll land a comfortable sinecure at some other lefty organization. Because even if she’s proven to have knowingly published a pack of lies they won’t think she did any wrong. Her intent was to attack those evil southern white frat boys, and that intent excuses a multitude of sins in the eyes of the left.

  124. @Sean
    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don't think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they'd been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen, and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.

    Fraternities should have minimal standards of behavior of never more than one brother having sex with a guest in their house in one night. If they really want to violate that rule, go to a Las Vegas hotel and hire a professional.

  125. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:
    @Anonymous
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.



    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     

    “I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation.”

    It may well be true. The real issue isn’t “did it happen or not happen” but the idiocy of the victim(if she was a victim) and the sensationalism of the journalism. When it’s handled this stupidly and badly, we don’t know what is and isn’t true. Journalism shouldn’t play Rashomon.

    Rapist guys are scum, but in many cases in college, it takes two to tango or bango. A lot of girls act like sluts and lead men on.. and when things get out of hand, they cry foul.
    If you lead men on in a hormone fueled environment, you are playing with fire. Even if rapists should still be accused, convicted, and jailed, girls should learn to act more proper and stop acting like easy sluts.
    If you put yourself in a world where boys play rough, don’t be too surprised if things get rough. Also, if you don’t want boys to act rough, don’t lead them out… as when the lust comes out, even men can’t control themselves.
    It’s like if a child plays rough with a dog, the aggressive side of the dog might emerge and maul the kid. Then, the kid will cry and play the helpless victim.

    It’s like what Edward says in TWILIGHT. When vampires taste blood–even just a little bit–, a kind of frenzy takes over and they lose control of themselves. Most college guys boozed on alcohol, sports culture, and loud music are NOT Carlisle(the saint of vampires). They are raging with hormones and trying to keep control. But they want sex, and if they think they can have some, a kind of ‘frenzy’ can take place.

    So, boys behave… but girls better behave to so that boys won’t be encouraged to act like frenzied vampires.

    http://youtu.be/sSB82RNHtM4?t=37s

    Look at fatty Americans. Is it cuz they wanna be fat? No, they can’t help themselves when they see all that cheapie food. They know they shouldn’t eat it. They know too much food will turn them into uglyass fatsos and ruin their health. But they still pig out. When they smell them greasy fries, chicken, ice cream, and chocolate, one bite won’t suffice. They eat and eat and eat until belly full.
    Young men, with booze/drugs/sports/music, can feel the same way about a woman if she plays slut. If you poke holes in a dam, don’t be too surprised if the whole thing bursts.

    I know of a girl who kept on teasing and fooling around with a boy with a bad reputation. When I heard he raped her, I wasn’t surprised. She didn’t report it to the police out of shame, but she had it coming even if she didn’t deserve it.

    PS. Why are rapists called rapists and not rapers? It’s an act, not an ideology.

  126. The UVA administration’s response makes sense if they know of or suspect a lot of campus rapes that have been swept under the rug. They may doubt this one happened while knowing a serious investigation will find dozens of real cases that are less literary, but more directly verifiable by interviewing victims who are willing to go on the record and say “Yeah, I was druged and raped at that fraternity and the school was mainly interested in quieting the whole thing down.”

  127. @Anon
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction

    What is a DH?

    Oh, sorry, “DH” must be an abbreviation common on women’s forums. lol. I’m pretty sure it means “Dear Husband.”

  128. @Anonymous
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.



    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?

    Ah, sorority folk-tales as evidence.Instead of the story of the killer with a hook for a hand, let’s tell the one about the coke bottle rapist”:I knew this girl who told me that there was a fraternity where the pledges have to rape a girl with a coke bottle to get in.”

    And when I was growing up in Northern California I was told, in all seriousness, about the “lights out” gang initiation ritual. They drive around at night with their lights off, waiting for someone to blink their lights at them as a friendly warning.When that happens, they pull out their guns and start shooting. This is totally true.It happened to a friend of a friend* of mine.

    *Folklorists call this the F.O.A.F.

  129. The Washington Times had an article on the general rape crisis in universities.
    Dec 2, 2014. I thought it explained a lot, especially the power of Executive agencies and how important it is to have your type of President setting the Administrative Agency tone.

    “The federal crackdown can be traced to an April 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter from the Department of Education’s civil rights office, which put academic institutions on notice that sexual misconduct constitutes a violation of Title IX. The letter also lowered the standard of proof in handling such cases to a “preponderance of the evidence,” from the “clear and convincing evidence” standard some schools were using, much less the “beyond a reasonable doubt” rule of criminal rape cases.

    In May, the agency released a list of 55 higher education institutions under investigation for possible Title IX violations “over the handling of sexual violence and harassment complaints.” The list has since grown to more than 80 universities and colleges.

    Big risks

    For academic institutions, the risks are huge. A finding against the school could result in a complete withdrawal of federal funding, which for large research universities could amount to as much as 20 percent of their budgets, said Joe Cohn, legislative and policy director of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

    “So whereas the incentives in the past may have been to sweep things under the rug, I think if advocates have accomplished anything on this, it’s changing the incentives structure so now it’s predominantly for schools to crack down on accused students to make sure that they get the feds off of their back,” Mr. Cohn said. “And stay out of the public relations disasters that other schools are experiencing.”

    At the top of that list would be the University of Virginia, which was roiled by a Nov. 19 article in Rolling Stone in which a student identified only as “Jackie” says she was gang-raped in 2012 as part of a fraternity initiation. University President Teresa Sullivan reacted by suspending all fraternities until Jan. 9, apologizing to the student and calling for a police investigation of the charges.”

    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/1/title-ix-invoked-by-male-university-of-colorado-st/#ixzz3KsENjGje

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Washington Times had an article on the general rape crisis in universities.

    The alleged rape crisis.
  130. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    Right, but in most cases nothing comes of it. The girl is embarrassed and regrets it the next morning, but she doesn’t feel she was victimized and doesn’t dwell on it and tries to forget about it. It ends up being an inside story for the frat brothers and close friends to high five about. And that’s pretty much it. It doesn’t turn into a giant sh*tstorm.

  131. Hussein Obama was talking about the Staten Island incident involving the Black man who was put in a choke hold by a White police officer.

    I am sick and tired of Hussein always sticking his nose into these situations. I hope America does not elect a Black Democrat president again anytime soon, ideally not again in my lifetime.

    With the last 8 years of White male police officers being demonized under a Democratic administration, I can not see too many White male police officers pulling the lever for a politician with a D next to their name in 2016.

  132. Mr Zurcher must have zurched very hard to find these talking points :

    “Black-on-white crime, which appears to be the primary concern of some conservatives in the Begic case, is relatively infrequent. According to recent statistics, 83% of whites are killed by other whites, while 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks”

  133. @Tom-in-VA
    Excellent article, Steve. Of course, the entire college rape crisis moral panic is built on the bogus " one-in-five women in college are raped" myth, but we don't see the mainstream press examining that too closely, either.

    Technically, the statistic isn’t 1-in-5 are raped, it’s 1-in-5 are sexually assaulted. Of course, that’s cited as evidence of a “rape culture.” It’s a huge bait and switch. The 1-in-5 stat is based off of surveys, as well, rather than police reports or university investigations. They ask girls if they’ve been sexually assaulted according to a very broad definition, count as a yes every girl who’s had her ass grabbed by a drunken frat boy, and then report that percentage as proof that hundreds of thousands of girls are getting date raped.

    From an article in Weekly Standard that Steve linked to a while ago:

    “The bogus statistics thrown around by the feminist-industrial complex—a one-in-four to one-in-five incidence of sexual assault among undergraduate girls—dwarf any known crime rate, even in the most brutal African ethnic wars. In 2012, Newark, New Jersey’s rate for all violent crimes—murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—was 1.1 percent; its rape rate was under .02 percent. Activist researchers attain their 20-25 percent rape incidence statistic by the strategic phrasing of questions and the exquisite parsing of definitions. In a 1986 Ms. survey that sparked the campus-rape industry, 73 percent of respondents whom the study characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped when asked the question directly. Forty-two percent of these supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants—an inconceivable behavior in the case of actual rape. Sixty-five percent of females whom a 2000 Department of Justice study deemed “completed rape” victims said that they did not think that their experiences were “serious enough to report,” nor did their alleged “victimization” result in physical or emotional injuries.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Lots of stuff happens, especially under the influence of drink, that's not good.
  134. @Sean
    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don't think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they'd been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen, and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.

    There is a lot of alcohol at these occasions (frat boys have actually died of alcohol poisoning at such parties) so don’t think everyone was thinking all that straight. I have read a few cases of boys on trial for participating in a gang rape who said they they’d been told the girl was of her own free will taking on any guy . Sometimes the first to have sex with her gets acquitted and the hapless gullible weak minded fools who follow get convicted. Drew could have told the men that Jackie wanted a gang bang. And young women having given an odd explanations for how the rape happened with a minimum of resistance from them are in no way unusual. Gang rapes do happen,

    Sure, gang rapes happen.It’s just that the details of this alleged gang rape sound rather…..baroque.

    and it is mere assumption that the culprits were white.

    I would argue that it is an assumption that the article wants us to make

  135. I’ve touched broken glass once, and it is really really really sharp. If she was assaulted and raped on top of broken glass shards for three hours straight she(and everyone who raped her) would have all bled out.

  136. Good job putting it all together.

    The Rolling Stone story was too surreal to believe at face value, yet most people fell for it. This fact doesn’t inspire much confidence in the citizenry or media, which is still behind most comments sections in what it will point out. Aside from this, the story after the story–the story about who is hoaxing, who is gullible, who is real, and who isn’t–is fascinating.

    For instance I doubted “Jackie’s” existence after the first reading so it surprised me that Jackie appears to be real (and that apparently “Jackie” is her first name). But it makes sense now. A student at UVA named Jackie was merely the vehicle or inspiration for “Jackie”–the fictitious amalgamation of Jackie’s bizarre memories and Erdely’s fabulism.

    Perusing the topic of “fabulism” online, I ran across this website which lists its top 50 fabulist books–many of which are feminist-leaning. The escapism in the surreal and fantastical seems to attract these types, who were able to exploit the credulity of both feminists and readers from RS. Notice how the surreal aspects of the story–the dreamlike inability for “Jackie” to convince anyone of her story, the repeated sightings of “Drew,” the lack of emotional support from the university dean–play themselves out in the aftermath of the story. Instead of “Jackie” it is the fraternity–a real place with real men named Phi Kappa Psi–which surreally cannot defend itself. It sees abuse, not in the form of broken glass bottles but in the vandalism and vicious protests. Not only is any university support lacking, it is serving as the sonderkommando, willing to shut down Greek activities without due process.

    So who serves as “Drew,” what was Jackie’s interaction with Phi Psi, what meetings with Jackie can the university document, and where are these alleged other victims of Phi Psi gang rape?

  137. @DPG
    Technically, the statistic isn't 1-in-5 are raped, it's 1-in-5 are sexually assaulted. Of course, that's cited as evidence of a "rape culture." It's a huge bait and switch. The 1-in-5 stat is based off of surveys, as well, rather than police reports or university investigations. They ask girls if they've been sexually assaulted according to a very broad definition, count as a yes every girl who's had her ass grabbed by a drunken frat boy, and then report that percentage as proof that hundreds of thousands of girls are getting date raped.

    From an article in Weekly Standard that Steve linked to a while ago:

    "The bogus statistics thrown around by the feminist-industrial complex—a one-in-four to one-in-five incidence of sexual assault among undergraduate girls—dwarf any known crime rate, even in the most brutal African ethnic wars. In 2012, Newark, New Jersey’s rate for all violent crimes—murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—was 1.1 percent; its rape rate was under .02 percent. Activist researchers attain their 20-25 percent rape incidence statistic by the strategic phrasing of questions and the exquisite parsing of definitions. In a 1986 Ms. survey that sparked the campus-rape industry, 73 percent of respondents whom the study characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped when asked the question directly. Forty-two percent of these supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants—an inconceivable behavior in the case of actual rape. Sixty-five percent of females whom a 2000 Department of Justice study deemed “completed rape” victims said that they did not think that their experiences were “serious enough to report,” nor did their alleged “victimization” result in physical or emotional injuries."

    Lots of stuff happens, especially under the influence of drink, that’s not good.

  138. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30317807

    Any thoughts on this case, Steve? Most of the other recent media circuses have seemed to me unjustified, but from what I’ve read about this case the cop in question seems to seriously messed up, and I’m surprised he wasn’t charged.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You know, New York City is special. Special people live there. They took all that civil rights / civil liberties stuff seriously during the Lindsay Administration 1965-1973 and look where that got them. Now, New Yorkers realize you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. But, they can still fight civil rights battles, just out in Ferguson, MO and Sanford, FL and the like.
  139. UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn’t put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools ‘just didn’t feel right’

    It seems a safe bet that Sabrina Rubin Ederly is Jewish. The frats at Ivy League schools would have a lot of Jewish guys in them, in fact they might even be majority Jewish. If you’re a JSJW (Jewish Social Justice Warrior) looking to score points against the Evil Right Wing Patriarchy I can see where writing a hitpiece against Harvard or Yale just wouldn’t feel right.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    It seems a safe bet that Sabrina Rubin Ederly is Jewish.
     
    She is.She references her Jewishness in an article called “I’ll be Damned” (http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/IllBeDamned.pdf)

    The frats at Ivy League schools would have a lot of Jewish guys in them, in fact they might even be majority Jewish. If you’re a JSJW (Jewish Social Justice Warrior) looking to score points against the Evil Right Wing Patriarchy I can see where writing a hitpiece against Harvard or Yale just wouldn’t feel right.
     
    One might also note note that Harvard and Yale are a tad more elite (i.e., more powerful) than UVA; you don't want them angry at you.
    , @Anonymous
    Mark Zuckerberg was in a frat at Harvard. He was in Alpha Epsilon Pi, which is a historically Jewish frat. It's majority Jewish but does have gentile members. It's a Jewish frat because fraternities go back to when they did significantly discriminate. Sort of like why there are historically Jewish country clubs today.

    But this gives us the real reason why she couldn't write about frats at Harvard or Yale. Not because there are Jewish frat members. There are Ivy League frats that are basically almost entirely composed of the members of a particular sport and thus have few or no Jewish members, since they mostly get in for academics. The real reason is because guys like Mark Zuckerberg are in them. Nobody is going to believe gangs of Mark Zuckerbergs at Harvard are raping girls at frat parties.
  140. @Troy
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30317807

    Any thoughts on this case, Steve? Most of the other recent media circuses have seemed to me unjustified, but from what I've read about this case the cop in question seems to seriously messed up, and I'm surprised he wasn't charged.

    You know, New York City is special. Special people live there. They took all that civil rights / civil liberties stuff seriously during the Lindsay Administration 1965-1973 and look where that got them. Now, New Yorkers realize you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs. But, they can still fight civil rights battles, just out in Ferguson, MO and Sanford, FL and the like.

  141. @Half Canadian
    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.

    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.

    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The white student body at UVA tends to be a lot more gentile, Southern, etc. than those at the Ivies and other northeastern schools.
    , @Anonymous
    Blonde babes aren't the focus of the article.

    The whole point of the article is to paint a picture of a group of men doing something bad to an innocent woman, Jackie, who's described as brunette. The image she's trying to convey is of a group of blond, preppy frat brothers raping Jackie.
    , @whorefinder

    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me. Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.
     
    Actually, it's Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason---Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    One only has to view modern Jewish-American art and entertainment to find an inordinate number of "blond bombshells." Portnoy's Complaint, I believe, involved a shishka who was blond; almost all of Mel Brooks's films had the main "bombshell" as a blond (Young Frankenstein, The Producers, Blazing Saddles).

    Or to see secularized Jewish men---they have an inordinate number of blond gfs. Every Jewish man who can remember it goes nuts thinking about Marylin Monroe with Arthur Miller. It was like he was living the dream man.

    Jewish women, naturally, are more than a little piqued at this, hence their constant stream of attacks on blonds.
  142. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom-in-VA
    Excellent article, Steve. Of course, the entire college rape crisis moral panic is built on the bogus " one-in-five women in college are raped" myth, but we don't see the mainstream press examining that too closely, either.

    I’ve always understood it to be one-in-four. In high school, a male student group from UVA called “One-in-Four”, referencing the “one-in-four college women are raped” statistic, came to speak to the senior class to raise awareness about how one-in-four college women are raped:

    https://atuva.student.virginia.edu/organization/oneinfour

    One in Four is an all-male sexual assault peer education group at U.Va. We present a one-hour program, “How to Help a Sexual Assault Survivor: What Men Can Do,” to any group of men who will listen — sports teams, residence hall students, student organizations, fraternities, off campus groups — anyone. We also perform for coed audiences from time to time under special circumstances.

  143. @ben tillman
    Something I found at TheSabre.com reporting on a Slate article:

    Caitlin Flanagan, who did an investigation into bad behavior at fraternities for the Atlantic, emailed us:

    "In all my time studying fraternity rapes for my own essay, I didn’t come across a single report of anything like this. I did find reports of women who were raped by multiple men on one night—but those always involved incapacitation, either by alcohol or a drugged drink. And I did also find accounts of violent, push-down rape of the kind in the essay—but those were always by one member, not a bunch of members. (In fact, many of that kind—now that I think about it—were committed by non-members, or by visiting former members). But a planned gang rape, without alcohol or drugs, and keyed to initiation—I have never seen a case like that. Nor have I seen penetration with a foreign object—I’ve seen plenty of that committed by brothers to pledges as hazing, but I haven’t seen it in sexual assault cases. I’m sure it’s happened, but again—as part of a ritualized gang rape ... Never anything like it."
     

    That accords completely with what I've heard, and that's why I was immediately skeptical.

    Right. Caitlin did a big hostile article on fraternities recently, especially deaths and crippling from drunk students falling off balconies during parties. (That happened to a kid I knew.) The national fraternities are very adept at shucking legal responsibility for the damages and getting the parents of individual members to get stuck with the bill.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Right. Caitlin did a big hostile article on fraternities recently, especially deaths and crippling from drunk students falling off balconies during parties. (That happened to a kid I knew.)
     
    I give you a brother/sister pair of anecdotes. Sister was on a deck that collapsed at a party. No one was seriously injured. They laughed and made T-shirts that said "Deck Wreck '89".

    Brother left his keys in his room. His date went to get them by stepping onto the fraternity's letters attached to the outside of the building (which happened to be between his room and the next) so that she could open his window, go in, and get the keys.

    She fell and died. Brother also was dropped from height and almost died on another occasion.
  144. Read the whole thing there.

    That’s kinda funny. “Read the whole thing here” with link for ‘here’ is the common phrase . But you just won’t fully participate.

  145. Sean – Gang rapes do happen

    Of course gang rapes happen. How often do they happen and the victim refuses to report the matter to the police? How often do they happen and the victims friends know all about it but tell her to keep her mouth shut because they’re worried the gang rapists won’t invite them to their next gang rape party?

    Abductions do happen. It doesn’t follow that we must credulously accept the word of somebody who claims she was abducted by an alien spaceship.

  146. @syonredux

    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.
     
    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.

    The white student body at UVA tends to be a lot more gentile, Southern, etc. than those at the Ivies and other northeastern schools.

  147. @Greenstalk
    UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn’t put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools ‘just didn’t feel right’


    It seems a safe bet that Sabrina Rubin Ederly is Jewish. The frats at Ivy League schools would have a lot of Jewish guys in them, in fact they might even be majority Jewish. If you're a JSJW (Jewish Social Justice Warrior) looking to score points against the Evil Right Wing Patriarchy I can see where writing a hitpiece against Harvard or Yale just wouldn't feel right.

    It seems a safe bet that Sabrina Rubin Ederly is Jewish.

    She is.She references her Jewishness in an article called “I’ll be Damned” (http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/IllBeDamned.pdf)

    The frats at Ivy League schools would have a lot of Jewish guys in them, in fact they might even be majority Jewish. If you’re a JSJW (Jewish Social Justice Warrior) looking to score points against the Evil Right Wing Patriarchy I can see where writing a hitpiece against Harvard or Yale just wouldn’t feel right.

    One might also note note that Harvard and Yale are a tad more elite (i.e., more powerful) than UVA; you don’t want them angry at you.

  148. @ben tillman

    aren’t glass tables made with safety glass?
     
    That's a question someone telling the truth would have anticipated and answered. Just like she would have explained that at some point the lights came on making identification of the participants possible, etc.

    Right. The incompatibility of the details suggests that Jackie was never questioned all that hard.

  149. @Steve Sailer
    Norman Podhoretz's memoir of the 1960s has a section about all the Southern writers moving to New York City and taking over. Midge Decter says that if the southerners could pass up a drink they'd take over.

    He was very resentful of their liberal racial guilt, having grown up terrified of blacks in Brooklyn.

    BTW, WWT is breaking out in….Minnesota. Yes. Minnesota.

  150. “You know, New York City is special. Special people live there. They took all that civil rights / civil liberties stuff seriously during the Lindsay Administration 1965-1973 and look where that got them. Now, New Yorkers realize you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs. But, they can still fight civil rights battles, just out in Ferguson, MO and Sanford, FL and the like.”

    Los Angeles is also Special and Special People live there, but the left wing media still shit all over that city when the police officers were found not guilty in the Rodney King case.

  151. @Still-Life
    I am glad that I am not the only one who thought that the girl confabulated this story to somehow comfort herself after an "I Am Charlotte Simmons" event.

    Maybe she lost her virginity that night. Our culture is not very cognizant of the emotional power of that happening. Wolfe’s novel is one of the few recent ones to deal with that in detail.

    • Replies: @Dahlia
    Completely agree.

    When the furor dies down, I would love a discussion on colleges. I don't believe there's a "rape culture" remotely like Erdely invented, but I do want to avoid a Charlotte Simmons experience for my children. When I thought this story was true and was reeling, my husband and I had a discussion based on it in regards to plans for our children. I'd just like to know the truth about the various institutions.
    I read that Flanagan piece. Is there anything good to recommend a fraternity to a Christian?
  152. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.
     
    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.

    Blonde babes aren’t the focus of the article.

    The whole point of the article is to paint a picture of a group of men doing something bad to an innocent woman, Jackie, who’s described as brunette. The image she’s trying to convey is of a group of blond, preppy frat brothers raping Jackie.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Blonde babes aren’t the focus of the article.
     
    Didn't mean to imply that they were, merely noting that brunettes seem somewhat overly cognizant of their blonde (bottle or otherwise) sisters

    The whole point of the article is to paint a picture of a group of men doing something bad to an innocent woman, Jackie, who’s described as brunette.
     
    Which makes the brunette author all the more sympathetic to her, I'm sure

    The image she’s trying to convey is of a group of blond, preppy frat brothers raping Jackie.
     
    Quite so
  153. @Steve Sailer
    Right. The word "hoax" is likely too black and white. My modal guess would be that something bad happened to Jackie and she's had serious emotional problems since, but she tends to invent some details and downplay others.

    My own guess is that there isn’t an ounce of truth to any of the story. No possible truth is close enough to the fabrication to serve as any kind of plausible starting point.

    I’ve met a couple of people who lie like that. It takes a little time to get used to the idea of someone lying with zero basis in reality, and doing so regularly and spectacularly, but it happens.

    The question of whether there is any truth to the story is, to me, about the only interesting thing about it that remains genuinely open.

  154. @conatus
    The Washington Times had an article on the general rape crisis in universities.
    Dec 2, 2014. I thought it explained a lot, especially the power of Executive agencies and how important it is to have your type of President setting the Administrative Agency tone.

    "The federal crackdown can be traced to an April 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter from the Department of Education’s civil rights office, which put academic institutions on notice that sexual misconduct constitutes a violation of Title IX. The letter also lowered the standard of proof in handling such cases to a “preponderance of the evidence,” from the “clear and convincing evidence” standard some schools were using, much less the “beyond a reasonable doubt” rule of criminal rape cases.

    In May, the agency released a list of 55 higher education institutions under investigation for possible Title IX violations “over the handling of sexual violence and harassment complaints.” The list has since grown to more than 80 universities and colleges.

    Big risks

    For academic institutions, the risks are huge. A finding against the school could result in a complete withdrawal of federal funding, which for large research universities could amount to as much as 20 percent of their budgets, said Joe Cohn, legislative and policy director of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

    “So whereas the incentives in the past may have been to sweep things under the rug, I think if advocates have accomplished anything on this, it’s changing the incentives structure so now it’s predominantly for schools to crack down on accused students to make sure that they get the feds off of their back,” Mr. Cohn said. “And stay out of the public relations disasters that other schools are experiencing.”

    At the top of that list would be the University of Virginia, which was roiled by a Nov. 19 article in Rolling Stone in which a student identified only as “Jackie” says she was gang-raped in 2012 as part of a fraternity initiation. University President Teresa Sullivan reacted by suspending all fraternities until Jan. 9, apologizing to the student and calling for a police investigation of the charges."

    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/1/title-ix-invoked-by-male-university-of-colorado-st/#ixzz3KsENjGje

    The Washington Times had an article on the general rape crisis in universities.

    The alleged rape crisis.

  155. @Bill P
    I'm not sure whether this is an example of overreach or the beginings of a cultural shift. For decades, feminists have been getting away with lies that you'd think normal people would be terribly embarrassed to be associated with. First, the idea that men and women are identical from birth, and only differ later on because of patriarchal conditioning. Then the stories of women hiding out in a sort of underground railroad to protect themselves from monstrous ex-husbands. Turns out on closer examination that many of these women simply weren't satisfied with court judgments, and subsequently abducted their children and vilified their ex-husbands as a cover story to avoid prosecution.

    Finally the rape hysteria, ongoing since the 90s, that makes fantastic claims about how many women are raped and how few men prosecuted. After reviewing one claim about how few guilty men are convicted that made the rounds a couple years ago, I calculated that, according to feminist statistics, 40 million American men - one in four of us - should be in prison for rape. I suppose that would leave the other three to pick up the tab for incarceration, or perhaps slave labor is the idea here (more likely). I came up with that figure by multiplying the number of men currently supervised by the criminal justice system for sex crimes (does not include those who are merely registered sex offenders -- only those in prison, on parole or on probation), which is already enormous, and comprises a higher percentage of our population than people under supervision for all crimes in many other countries.

    Feminists have been getting away with outrageous lies for so long that perhaps Rolling Stone and Erdely saw no need to fact check the story, assuming that nobody would dare question it, especially if it stayed out of criminal court, which probably appeared likely. It must have come come as a rude shock, then, that people have begun to do so.

    However, it is not right to assume that this litany of lies is confined to the liberal media and parts of academia. It has permeated society to the extent that it occurs every single day in family courtrooms across the nation. I suspect that this is where it began, because it has been going on ever since divorce became a civil matter in American courts in the late 19th century.

    I often tell men who don't believe me to spend a morning or afternoon in family court - which is a grotesque chimera made up of various parts of criminal and civil courts stitched together into a lucrative mostrosity - to watch proceedings. Vicious accusations that beggar belief roll easily off the tongues of attorneys and their clients. Perjury hangs like a fog in the courtrooms, obscuring any clear truth, and judges accordingly rule in the most arbitrary manner.

    It is this fog of lies, I think, that has made its way into journalism and academia from below rather than the other way around.

    However, it's long been known that divorce courts are filled with slander and bogus allegations, so nobody takes the accusations seriously enough to do more than use them as leverage to extract concessions. I can't say it's an encouraging sign, but perhaps people are starting to feel the same way about this kind of journalism. While that may not reflect well on our standards and culture, it's probably appropriate at this point.

    There’s floating around on the Internet a purported divorce filing by the ex-wife of a wealthy bad guy who has devoted his immense PR skills to persecuting politically incorrect people. But I won’t link to it because who knows how much of it is pure BS.

    • Replies: @Hard Line Realist
    Come on Steve. Have a heart. We just want to have fun.

    Give us a search string!
  156. @Anonymous
    The story does seems to be corroborated by people affiliated with UVA though.

    “Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone

    Rolling Stone’s investigation into sexual assault on the University of Virginia campus elicits intense personal stories”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

    Within hours of Rolling Stone publishing Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s harrowing report, “A Rape on Campus,” the article went viral and the outpouring of comments from women, both UVA students and alumni as well as others, who shared their own stories of campus sexual assault was stunning. Below is a selection of those comments that further illuminate the chilling frequency with which sexual assault on campus occurs.

    Sadly

    I was also raped at UVA in a frat house in 2013. I reported it through the Sexual Misconduct Board at the University and had it tried in 2014. My evidence included texts calling for help, police testimony consistent with mine, and numerous witnesses. But the University still found him innocent. I found Nicole Eramo very unfeeling as well — sociopathic, almost. She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime. It was a very negative experience to go through — to be raped and then told that your offender was innocent. I even left clothing as I ran out of the frat house that the University gathered as evidence and it was never returned to me. Not that the clothing was important. It wasn’t. The police discouraged me from pursuing it criminally, saying that I didn’t have enough evidence to win. They also told me that I should be cautious about pursuing this formally, since court proceedings and news articles related to my case could spread publicly on the Internet. For privacy reasons (I didn’t want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges), I decided to pursue justice through the University. But the outcome of this process was painful and disappointing. I will never stop wondering why UVA so often expels students for academic lying, cheating, and stealing but has never once expelled a student for rap.



    Another UVA Female and Ally – UVA female student

    As a fourth year female at UVA, this article made me cry. Statistically speaking, you have almost definitely encountered a rapist on school grounds. The problem is that most of the students here too oblivious to know that they are rapists. Two days a week, I enjoy the experience of sitting in a small class with a person who raped one of my closest friends. Had I been unaware of the incident, I would not know he was a rapist: Rapists blend in. He was not punished, despite a trial replete with corroborating evidence on the victim’s part. Second-hand, I have heard of many – countless even – incidents of sexual violence in my four years here. And I can tell you that this article captures our school’s problem accurately. I love the University of Virginia, but what I don’t love are people ignoring the problem – and it is indeed a problem.

    Hibiscus Old ‘Hoo

    I went to UVA in the Eighties and this was spot-on then. It all echoes my own personal experience. There was a culture of sexual assault, along with a disdain for those who attempt to report it, and it apparently continues to this day. I am grateful that this is finally being brought into the light

    Mad UVA Mom

    I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?
     

    She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime.

    This is the elephant in the room for the “Rape Culture” debate, and something feminist agitators would rather sweep under the rug. Rigorous studies on the issue of campus rape (most notably those of Dr. David Lisak) reliably conclude that about 90% of all rapes on campus take place at the hands of a few serial rapists, comprising a tiny fraction of the male half of the student body. The problem is not, as feminists allege, that campus culture “institutionalizes” rape. The problem is that campus culture promotes binge drinking and casual sex, which in turn provides a fertile hunting ground for a handful of dedicated predators. (Not all of them are students, either- as an undergraduate, my wife once had to intervene to separate her inebriated friend from a man quite literally twice the girl’s age, who obviously had unwholesome designs on the young lady. Nobody knew whence he had come, or who had invited him.) “Teaching our sons not to rape” is a pointless exercise in misandric browbeating, since over 90% of young men already don’t rape, and the ones who do certainly aren’t dissuaded by sensitivity workshops. The only way to stop the predators is to put a stop to drunken hook-ups. Ending co-ed dorms might actually do some good (in schools without fraternities and sororities), but that’s a crowning achievement of the “Sixties People” in their takeover of the universities, so it’ll never happen.

    Of course, certain alt-right conservatives also miss this point, being too quick to dismiss allegations with “She’s crying rape because he never called the next morning”. If a serial date-rapist averages about six victims, and maybe 1%-3% of male students are serial rapists, then a large school with 10,000 students might house on campus, at any one time, the victims of around 300-900 separate rapes (not necessarily 300-900 rape victims, though, if certain unfortunate women fall victim repeatedly, which seems likely). That’s not a small number. Thus, when a woman says “I know lots of girls who’ve been raped“, and a man says “I don’t know any man who’s ever raped anyone“, they’re probably both telling the truth as they know it. Their mutual incomprehension is good for the professional grievance-mongers, though, so nobody ever injects sanity into the discussion.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities need to throw out the real bad guys.
  157. @Erik L
    Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?

    “Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?”

    That’s implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You’d think that after all these years or decades, they’d at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?”

    That’s implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You’d think that after all these years or decades, they’d at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.
     
    You can sense the confabulation here. This isn't just some ad hoc horror; this this an organized conspiracy that goes back years, decades, centuries!Perhaps it was initiated by Thomas Jefferson himself back in 1825.Maybe Poe's Gothic tales contains hidden clues to the horrors that he witnessed (perhaps even participated in!) as an undergraduate at UVA. Perhaps that explains his mysterious disappearance and death in 1849! Was Reynolds (Poe's dying words referred to a "Reynolds") the name of the blond (perhaps even Albino) UVA assassin who dispatched Poe before he could tell too much?

    There's a Dan Brown screenplay in this, I tell you!
    , @Anonymous
    According to a "mad UVA mom", the "coke bottle rapists" have been wreaking havoc at UVA since at least the early 80s.
    , @Erik L
    It's probably the first time it happened; I'm sure they added it to the bylaws after this incident.

    Seriously though, Susan Walsh at Hooking Up Smart makes a pretty convincing case that there is a significant rape problem on college campuses and that it is done by a small number of serial rapists. The problem I see with stories like this one is they are trying to group all men, or all of a certain kind of men (fraternity members) as potential or even likely rapists. The fraternity guys look around and say "I would never do that and I can't imagine my friends doing that so it sounds like BS". It's not a good way to get action on the problem.
  158. @Steve Sailer
    There's floating around on the Internet a purported divorce filing by the ex-wife of a wealthy bad guy who has devoted his immense PR skills to persecuting politically incorrect people. But I won't link to it because who knows how much of it is pure BS.

    Come on Steve. Have a heart. We just want to have fun.

    Give us a search string!

  159. @Mike Zwick
    The article in the link you provided, that talked about why Richard Blow became Richard Bradley, never mentioned how traumatic it would be for a boy to go through life with a name like "Dick Blow." I can see why he might want to change his name!

    Yeah. Dick Blow.

    Richard is one of those first names that you can be confident will never become a girl’s name. But it has its downsides.

  160. @Dahlia
    Looked on Twitter...
    I believe I'm the only person who has questioned the veracity of those lyrics as of yesterday evening and this morning. At best, Erdely is the victim of a practical joker, but I believe she made them up. No matter what the truth, it's damning.

    Or maybe there is somewhere on the Internet somebody posted a bunch of verses he made up.

  161. @SFG
    Well done again, sir.

    It is funny how you keep seeing Steve talk about stuff, and then it appears two weeks later in the MSM. The sad thing is, the one guy who actually tried to give him credit--David Brooks on natalism--got piled on it later for 'reading the racist author Steve Sailer'.

    Gladwell attacked Pinker in the New York Times for reading me.

  162. Dahlia says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Maybe she lost her virginity that night. Our culture is not very cognizant of the emotional power of that happening. Wolfe's novel is one of the few recent ones to deal with that in detail.

    Completely agree.

    When the furor dies down, I would love a discussion on colleges. I don’t believe there’s a “rape culture” remotely like Erdely invented, but I do want to avoid a Charlotte Simmons experience for my children. When I thought this story was true and was reeling, my husband and I had a discussion based on it in regards to plans for our children. I’d just like to know the truth about the various institutions.
    I read that Flanagan piece. Is there anything good to recommend a fraternity to a Christian?

    • Replies: @IA
    "Is there anything good to recommend a fraternity to a Christian?"

    Hi. I can tell you that traditional fraternities (most founded in the 19th century) promote christian values in their pledge/initiation books. Fraternities should and do build character, but they don't exist in a cultural vacuum.
  163. @syonredux

    Regarding UVA being full of blonde people, in Fall 2013, 62% of their enrollment were whites.

    With ~64% of their 2010 population being white, non-hsipanic, that hardly seems inordinate.
     
    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.

    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me. Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.

    Actually, it’s Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason—Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    One only has to view modern Jewish-American art and entertainment to find an inordinate number of “blond bombshells.” Portnoy’s Complaint, I believe, involved a shishka who was blond; almost all of Mel Brooks’s films had the main “bombshell” as a blond (Young Frankenstein, The Producers, Blazing Saddles).

    Or to see secularized Jewish men—they have an inordinate number of blond gfs. Every Jewish man who can remember it goes nuts thinking about Marylin Monroe with Arthur Miller. It was like he was living the dream man.

    Jewish women, naturally, are more than a little piqued at this, hence their constant stream of attacks on blonds.

    • Replies: @HandsomeWhiteDevil
    Actually, it’s Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason—Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    I haven't seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of "Rhoda" involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda's mind...
  164. @Uptown Resident
    My DH called the Rolling Stone article phony after reading the introduction, and before skepticism was voiced here and on Bradley's blog. I was less willing to dismiss it as fake ... probably because I'm more trusting in general, but also because I was impressed by Caitlin Flanagan's excellent piece, "The Dark Power of Fraternities," last year in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/). To be sure, Flanagan doesn't cite any instances of gang rape or anything as brutal as this UVA case. But there does seem to be a lot of drunken and regretted intercourse, and a lot of people getting injured at fraternity houses, and no administrative will to crack down on fraternity misbehavior. I wonder what Flanagan's opinion of the Rolling Stone piece is.

    Speaking of quality female journalists and literary fraud, Charlotte Allen covered the Zizek plagiarism case back in July (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fetish-zizek_800372.html). And I was surprised to hear that Sailer never responded to her request for comment?

    Fraternities are punished regularly, but it’s done quietly and on an ad hoc basis. At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two. They would have to be recolonized, and the kids recruited to recolonize (often the recruitment effort spearheaded by hoary chapter alumni and the national fraternity’s upstanding field secretaries) were bookish types who didn’t want to deal with the competitive nature of rush and the subsequent hazing. After a few years they would attract mild-mannered guys who were a bit cooler than the initial colony, but didn’t quite fit in with the party hardy crowd. Their reputation would start to improve and the cycle would start anew. They’d be on the path to being kicked off campus again in 15-20 years.

    I’ll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it’s really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen.

    • Replies: @Uptown Resident
    "I’ll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it’s really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen."

    I completely agree that the fraternity problem is just a symptom of a general decadence and, as Sailer implies, the absence of a code of conduct for gentlemanly and ladylike behavior. The 20's are a pretty savage time. Now as my husband and I are expecting our first (!), I'm already worrying about how one teaches a child to navigate the dating and drinking scene in college without emotional trauma or an STD. I need to start a file of items, like Caitlin Flanagan's piece on fraternities, on the hazards of college drinking. My own parents, nice but naive religious nuts, equipped their four daughters with lessons in "Biblical Sexuality," which backfired in two out of the four cases.
    , @Another Canadian

    At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two.
     
    Is Dean Wormer still there?
  165. @Rapparee
    "She later told me she didn’t believe the studies that showed rapists, in particular, were repeat offenders of this heinous crime."

    This is the elephant in the room for the "Rape Culture" debate, and something feminist agitators would rather sweep under the rug. Rigorous studies on the issue of campus rape (most notably those of Dr. David Lisak) reliably conclude that about 90% of all rapes on campus take place at the hands of a few serial rapists, comprising a tiny fraction of the male half of the student body. The problem is not, as feminists allege, that campus culture "institutionalizes" rape. The problem is that campus culture promotes binge drinking and casual sex, which in turn provides a fertile hunting ground for a handful of dedicated predators. (Not all of them are students, either- as an undergraduate, my wife once had to intervene to separate her inebriated friend from a man quite literally twice the girl's age, who obviously had unwholesome designs on the young lady. Nobody knew whence he had come, or who had invited him.) "Teaching our sons not to rape" is a pointless exercise in misandric browbeating, since over 90% of young men already don't rape, and the ones who do certainly aren't dissuaded by sensitivity workshops. The only way to stop the predators is to put a stop to drunken hook-ups. Ending co-ed dorms might actually do some good (in schools without fraternities and sororities), but that's a crowning achievement of the "Sixties People" in their takeover of the universities, so it'll never happen.

    Of course, certain alt-right conservatives also miss this point, being too quick to dismiss allegations with "She's crying rape because he never called the next morning". If a serial date-rapist averages about six victims, and maybe 1%-3% of male students are serial rapists, then a large school with 10,000 students might house on campus, at any one time, the victims of around 300-900 separate rapes (not necessarily 300-900 rape victims, though, if certain unfortunate women fall victim repeatedly, which seems likely). That's not a small number. Thus, when a woman says "I know lots of girls who've been raped", and a man says "I don't know any man who's ever raped anyone", they're probably both telling the truth as they know it. Their mutual incomprehension is good for the professional grievance-mongers, though, so nobody ever injects sanity into the discussion.

    Fraternities need to throw out the real bad guys.

    • Replies: @Rapparee
    A university serious about preventing sexual assault would teach incoming students the common red flags that identify serial predators, with information on how to isolate, avoid, and report them. This could certainly include extra annual training for all frat officers on when and how to expel the lowlifes from their ranks (as well as from their parties). Just as "Friends don't let friends drive drunk" is a more effective slogan than "Don't drink and drive", productive training should focus on getting sane bystanders to intervene to prevent bad behavior on the part of those who lack the moral compass to restrain themselves.

    Most feminist-scripted, emotion-drenched freshman "education" programs instead screech at students, "You'd better not even THINK about raping anyone!", when the real message they need to hear is "If you see these warning signs, take action". Compared to feminist histrionics, the latter message is also far more likely to resonate with macho fraternity jocks, by appealing to the heroic instinct- "Don't just be a meek bystander, step in and stop the bad guy!".
  166. @Steve Sailer
    "Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?"

    That's implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You'd think that after all these years or decades, they'd at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    “Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?”

    That’s implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You’d think that after all these years or decades, they’d at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    You can sense the confabulation here. This isn’t just some ad hoc horror; this this an organized conspiracy that goes back years, decades, centuries!Perhaps it was initiated by Thomas Jefferson himself back in 1825.Maybe Poe’s Gothic tales contains hidden clues to the horrors that he witnessed (perhaps even participated in!) as an undergraduate at UVA. Perhaps that explains his mysterious disappearance and death in 1849! Was Reynolds (Poe’s dying words referred to a “Reynolds”) the name of the blond (perhaps even Albino) UVA assassin who dispatched Poe before he could tell too much?

    There’s a Dan Brown screenplay in this, I tell you!

  167. @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    Only in the unlikely event that they found themselves, at one of their parties, in the presence of ladylike behavior.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Nah.
  168. “Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.”

    It doesn’t make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    It doesn’t make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty.
     
    I don't know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc
    , @syonredux

    The Fox News Channel
     
    What do those tasteless clods over at FOX NEWS know about Western Civilization?

    hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.
     
    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS
    , @syonredux
    Besides, dear fellow, the true aesthete knows that there is something faintly vulgar and meretricious about blondes; true beauty lies with the girl whose skin is the hue of marble and whose hair bears the stamp of the raven's wing.Just ask Mr Poe.

    But we live in dark and decadent times.Any day now, I expect to read of a rough beast, with a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, slouching towards Bethlehem to be born
    , @Ivy
    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.
    , @HandsomeWhiteDevil
    It doesn’t make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty.

    I read somewhere that the public fascination with blondes started during the late 19th Century, with a very popular band of blonde lady singers, whose name I unfortunately can't remember...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the Renaissance weren't redheads considered the acme of female beauty?
  169. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve Sailer said:

    You know, New York City is special. Special people live there. They took all that civil rights / civil liberties stuff seriously during the Lindsay Administration 1965-1973 and look where that got them. Now, New Yorkers realize you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs. But, they can still fight civil rights battles, just out in Ferguson, MO and Sanford, FL and the like.

    Yep, the NYPD is the protective detail of the elites. They’re untouchable. Heck even the cop that choked him had three serious prior misconducts. What a joke. Gardner was pleading that he couldn’t breathe. He was then was left unconscious and not responding as NYPD didn’t call for an ambulance. Oh well, just another multi-million dollar city payout for NYPD misconduct.

  170. @Jonathan Silber
    Fraternities need standards of gentlemanly behavior.

    Only in the unlikely event that they found themselves, at one of their parties, in the presence of ladylike behavior.

    Nah.

  171. @Anonymous
    Blonde babes aren't the focus of the article.

    The whole point of the article is to paint a picture of a group of men doing something bad to an innocent woman, Jackie, who's described as brunette. The image she's trying to convey is of a group of blond, preppy frat brothers raping Jackie.

    Blonde babes aren’t the focus of the article.

    Didn’t mean to imply that they were, merely noting that brunettes seem somewhat overly cognizant of their blonde (bottle or otherwise) sisters

    The whole point of the article is to paint a picture of a group of men doing something bad to an innocent woman, Jackie, who’s described as brunette.

    Which makes the brunette author all the more sympathetic to her, I’m sure

    The image she’s trying to convey is of a group of blond, preppy frat brothers raping Jackie.

    Quite so

  172. @Jefferson
    "Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down."

    It doesn't make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    It doesn’t make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty.

    I don’t know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc

  173. @Dahlia
    Completely agree.

    When the furor dies down, I would love a discussion on colleges. I don't believe there's a "rape culture" remotely like Erdely invented, but I do want to avoid a Charlotte Simmons experience for my children. When I thought this story was true and was reeling, my husband and I had a discussion based on it in regards to plans for our children. I'd just like to know the truth about the various institutions.
    I read that Flanagan piece. Is there anything good to recommend a fraternity to a Christian?

    “Is there anything good to recommend a fraternity to a Christian?”

    Hi. I can tell you that traditional fraternities (most founded in the 19th century) promote christian values in their pledge/initiation books. Fraternities should and do build character, but they don’t exist in a cultural vacuum.

  174. Uh-oh! Even the local Charlottesville news, which has been fanning flames, is picking up on the “doubt” angle:

    http://www.nbc29.com/story/27540920/some-cast-doubt-on-alleged-uva-gang-rape-article

  175. @Jefferson
    "Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down."

    It doesn't make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    The Fox News Channel

    What do those tasteless clods over at FOX NEWS know about Western Civilization?

    hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    No true conservative plays silly status games.
    , @ByronK

    no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS
     
    Fox News deserves credit for being better than all other news stations --in either the US or Europe.
  176. “I don’t know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc”

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Hair dyes improved a lot over the last 150 years. Red hair used to be more fashionable because there was good red dye. But Jean Harlow wrecked her hair by dyeing it blonde in the 1930s.
    , @syonredux

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.
     
    Fah! I'll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

    Compare Marilyn Monroe to Ave Gardner? It's a ludicrous exercise, a fool's errand.Ava outmatches Marilyn in every way.

    Jaclyn Smith vs Suzanne Somers? Hah! Bread after meat. Jaclyn makes Suzanne look like an ape in human clothing.

    Caroline Munro vs Pamela Anderson? Don't make me laugh.
    , @Art Deco
    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    No their ain't. Blonde hair seldom survives the young adult years. It's coming out of a bottle. I doubt you'll find one natural blonde in front of a camera at Fox or any other network.



    This is Jessica Savitch as a juvenile radio reporter in 1963

    http://www.jessicasavitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jessica1-e1340007841226.jpg


    This is what Jessica Savitch thought she had to look like applying for work at local television stations in 1969

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1492760/thumbs/o-85584533-570.jpg


    This is Jessica Savitch the last year of her life and work:

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4jjIjfnPB9k/hqdefault.jpg


    Less is more, but people in the media will not figure it out.
  177. @DPG
    Fraternities are punished regularly, but it's done quietly and on an ad hoc basis. At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two. They would have to be recolonized, and the kids recruited to recolonize (often the recruitment effort spearheaded by hoary chapter alumni and the national fraternity's upstanding field secretaries) were bookish types who didn't want to deal with the competitive nature of rush and the subsequent hazing. After a few years they would attract mild-mannered guys who were a bit cooler than the initial colony, but didn't quite fit in with the party hardy crowd. Their reputation would start to improve and the cycle would start anew. They'd be on the path to being kicked off campus again in 15-20 years.

    I'll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it's really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen.

    “I’ll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it’s really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen.”

    I completely agree that the fraternity problem is just a symptom of a general decadence and, as Sailer implies, the absence of a code of conduct for gentlemanly and ladylike behavior. The 20’s are a pretty savage time. Now as my husband and I are expecting our first (!), I’m already worrying about how one teaches a child to navigate the dating and drinking scene in college without emotional trauma or an STD. I need to start a file of items, like Caitlin Flanagan’s piece on fraternities, on the hazards of college drinking. My own parents, nice but naive religious nuts, equipped their four daughters with lessons in “Biblical Sexuality,” which backfired in two out of the four cases.

  178. “Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS”

    So it is mostly Liberals who watch Fox News ?

    “What do those tasteless clods over at FOX NEWS know about Western Civilization?”

    They know blond hair is the epitome of Western Civilization since extremely few Non Western people carry the genes for blond hair.

    Also since you have a strong preference for brunette women, you should be in favor of more amnesty and open borders since the vast majority of those Spicy Latina Illegals are raven haired brunettes.

  179. Even NYT published about the doubts raised about the article. This is a sign that they will not throw themselves behind the Narrative like they did with the Duke Lacrosse Team.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/us/magazines-account-of-gang-rape-on-virginia-campus-comes-under-scrutiny.html?_r=0

    Those of you who raised questions about the credibility of the Rolling Stone fantasy did a great thing by bravely speaking up about your doubts.

  180. @Jefferson
    "Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down."

    It doesn't make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    Besides, dear fellow, the true aesthete knows that there is something faintly vulgar and meretricious about blondes; true beauty lies with the girl whose skin is the hue of marble and whose hair bears the stamp of the raven’s wing.Just ask Mr Poe.

    But we live in dark and decadent times.Any day now, I expect to read of a rough beast, with a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, slouching towards Bethlehem to be born

  181. I’ve tracked down some of the purported Rugby Road lyrics. A couple stanzas appear in the Sept 27, 1976 issue of The Daily Cavalier in a column titled “Rush Weekend”:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1807&dat=19760927&id=Gh4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Cn8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6341,645179

    It’s a humor column, so it’s most likely that the lyrics were parodies conceived by that year’s Daily Cavalier staff. Far from a “traditional” song.

    But many of the other stanzas don’t appear anywhere on the web prior to the release of the RS article. It’s possible that SRE made these lyrics up, though I think it’s more likely that the lyrics were drawn from a fraternity’s “Filth Book”, as they’re called. I know my fraternity had a book of humorous filth songs, some of which were much worse than what’s printed in the article.

    But no one takes these things seriously. Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages. These lyrics certainly don’t deserve to be intertwined into a serious investigative story as if they were somehow relevant.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "A couple stanzas appear in the Sept 27, 1976 issue of The Daily Cavalier in a column titled “Rush Weekend”:

    Different standards in the 1970s: compare National Lampoon then to The Onion today.

    , @syonredux

    But no one takes these things seriously. Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages. These lyrics certainly don’t deserve to be intertwined into a serious investigative story as if they were somehow relevant.
     
    They set the stage, like mood music.
  182. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Greenstalk
    UVAs fraternities are essentially just Nazi rape camps to Sabrina and her ilk.

    I guess we know why she didn’t put her microscope on Harvard or Yale, why those schools ‘just didn’t feel right’


    It seems a safe bet that Sabrina Rubin Ederly is Jewish. The frats at Ivy League schools would have a lot of Jewish guys in them, in fact they might even be majority Jewish. If you're a JSJW (Jewish Social Justice Warrior) looking to score points against the Evil Right Wing Patriarchy I can see where writing a hitpiece against Harvard or Yale just wouldn't feel right.

    Mark Zuckerberg was in a frat at Harvard. He was in Alpha Epsilon Pi, which is a historically Jewish frat. It’s majority Jewish but does have gentile members. It’s a Jewish frat because fraternities go back to when they did significantly discriminate. Sort of like why there are historically Jewish country clubs today.

    But this gives us the real reason why she couldn’t write about frats at Harvard or Yale. Not because there are Jewish frat members. There are Ivy League frats that are basically almost entirely composed of the members of a particular sport and thus have few or no Jewish members, since they mostly get in for academics. The real reason is because guys like Mark Zuckerberg are in them. Nobody is going to believe gangs of Mark Zuckerbergs at Harvard are raping girls at frat parties.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Southern Universities traditionally had Jewish frats and sororities. Dinah Shor was president of her Vanderbilt sorority.
  183. @Geroge
    I've tracked down some of the purported Rugby Road lyrics. A couple stanzas appear in the Sept 27, 1976 issue of The Daily Cavalier in a column titled "Rush Weekend":

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1807&dat=19760927&id=Gh4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Cn8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6341,645179

    It's a humor column, so it's most likely that the lyrics were parodies conceived by that year's Daily Cavalier staff. Far from a "traditional" song.

    But many of the other stanzas don't appear anywhere on the web prior to the release of the RS article. It's possible that SRE made these lyrics up, though I think it's more likely that the lyrics were drawn from a fraternity's "Filth Book", as they're called. I know my fraternity had a book of humorous filth songs, some of which were much worse than what's printed in the article.

    But no one takes these things seriously. Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages. These lyrics certainly don't deserve to be intertwined into a serious investigative story as if they were somehow relevant.

    “A couple stanzas appear in the Sept 27, 1976 issue of The Daily Cavalier in a column titled “Rush Weekend”:

    Different standards in the 1970s: compare National Lampoon then to The Onion today.

  184. @Anonymous
    Mark Zuckerberg was in a frat at Harvard. He was in Alpha Epsilon Pi, which is a historically Jewish frat. It's majority Jewish but does have gentile members. It's a Jewish frat because fraternities go back to when they did significantly discriminate. Sort of like why there are historically Jewish country clubs today.

    But this gives us the real reason why she couldn't write about frats at Harvard or Yale. Not because there are Jewish frat members. There are Ivy League frats that are basically almost entirely composed of the members of a particular sport and thus have few or no Jewish members, since they mostly get in for academics. The real reason is because guys like Mark Zuckerberg are in them. Nobody is going to believe gangs of Mark Zuckerbergs at Harvard are raping girls at frat parties.

    Southern Universities traditionally had Jewish frats and sororities. Dinah Shor was president of her Vanderbilt sorority.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Southern Universities traditionally had Jewish frats and sororities. Dinah Shor was president of her Vanderbilt sorority.
     

    Alpha Epsilon Phi (ΑΕΦ) is a sorority and member of the National Panhellenic Conference. It was founded on October 24, 1909 at Barnard College in Harlem, New York City by seven Jewish women; Helen Phillips Lipman, Ida Beck Carlin, Rose Gerstein Smolin, Augustina "Tina" Hess Solomon, Lee Reiss Liebert, Rose Salmowitz Marvin, and Stella Strauss Sinsheimer. The mission of Alpha Epsilon Phi Sorority is "to inspire and support exemplary women dedicated to friendship and a lifelong commitment to Alpha Epsilon Phi while building on the vision of our Jewish founders."[1] It is a national sorority, meaning it has multiple chapters across the United States, rather than a local sorority, meaning it has strictly one site location and chapter. Although it is a historically Jewish sorority, it is not a religious organization and welcomes women of all religions and race who honor, respect and appreciate the Jewish faith and identity and are comfortable in a Jewish milieu to pledge for sisterhood.[2]
     
    Dinah was very much the big girl on campus:

    In 1934, when she graduated from Hume-Fogg High School, she was voted Best All-Around Girl.
    Then she enrolled at Vanderbilt as a sociology major. Not only was she a member of Alpha Epsilon sorority, but she served as its president and competed on its fencing team. She joined the arts and German and French clubs, the Glee Club and the Masque Club, and she became president of the Women’s Student Government Club. When she developed a crush during her sophomore year, it was naturally on the captain of the football team.
     
  185. @Geroge
    I've tracked down some of the purported Rugby Road lyrics. A couple stanzas appear in the Sept 27, 1976 issue of The Daily Cavalier in a column titled "Rush Weekend":

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1807&dat=19760927&id=Gh4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Cn8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6341,645179

    It's a humor column, so it's most likely that the lyrics were parodies conceived by that year's Daily Cavalier staff. Far from a "traditional" song.

    But many of the other stanzas don't appear anywhere on the web prior to the release of the RS article. It's possible that SRE made these lyrics up, though I think it's more likely that the lyrics were drawn from a fraternity's "Filth Book", as they're called. I know my fraternity had a book of humorous filth songs, some of which were much worse than what's printed in the article.

    But no one takes these things seriously. Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages. These lyrics certainly don't deserve to be intertwined into a serious investigative story as if they were somehow relevant.

    But no one takes these things seriously. Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages. These lyrics certainly don’t deserve to be intertwined into a serious investigative story as if they were somehow relevant.

    They set the stage, like mood music.

  186. @Jefferson
    "I don’t know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc"

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    Hair dyes improved a lot over the last 150 years. Red hair used to be more fashionable because there was good red dye. But Jean Harlow wrecked her hair by dyeing it blonde in the 1930s.

  187. @Steve Sailer
    "Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?"

    That's implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You'd think that after all these years or decades, they'd at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    According to a “mad UVA mom”, the “coke bottle rapists” have been wreaking havoc at UVA since at least the early 80s.

  188. @Steve Sailer
    Southern Universities traditionally had Jewish frats and sororities. Dinah Shor was president of her Vanderbilt sorority.

    Southern Universities traditionally had Jewish frats and sororities. Dinah Shor was president of her Vanderbilt sorority.

    Alpha Epsilon Phi (ΑΕΦ) is a sorority and member of the National Panhellenic Conference. It was founded on October 24, 1909 at Barnard College in Harlem, New York City by seven Jewish women; Helen Phillips Lipman, Ida Beck Carlin, Rose Gerstein Smolin, Augustina “Tina” Hess Solomon, Lee Reiss Liebert, Rose Salmowitz Marvin, and Stella Strauss Sinsheimer. The mission of Alpha Epsilon Phi Sorority is “to inspire and support exemplary women dedicated to friendship and a lifelong commitment to Alpha Epsilon Phi while building on the vision of our Jewish founders.”[1] It is a national sorority, meaning it has multiple chapters across the United States, rather than a local sorority, meaning it has strictly one site location and chapter. Although it is a historically Jewish sorority, it is not a religious organization and welcomes women of all religions and race who honor, respect and appreciate the Jewish faith and identity and are comfortable in a Jewish milieu to pledge for sisterhood.[2]

    Dinah was very much the big girl on campus:

    In 1934, when she graduated from Hume-Fogg High School, she was voted Best All-Around Girl.
    Then she enrolled at Vanderbilt as a sociology major. Not only was she a member of Alpha Epsilon sorority, but she served as its president and competed on its fencing team. She joined the arts and German and French clubs, the Glee Club and the Masque Club, and she became president of the Women’s Student Government Club. When she developed a crush during her sophomore year, it was naturally on the captain of the football team.

  189. “Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages.”

    There were many such filthy parodies sung in the Army.

    In 60s and 70s UK they were known as “rugby songs”, to be sung at all-male rugby club drinking sessions, but were also sung by sporty students. As a new undergrad I listened bemused as the studious-looking girls from the potholing* club joined in a hearty chorus of “tooraloo, tooralit, it’s a ****ing good song and it’s all about ****”.

    * cave exploration

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I can recall a student from England at Rice in the 1970s who sang UK rugby songs that were pretty shocking to a genteel Catholic schoolboy like myself.
  190. @Jefferson
    "Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down."

    It doesn't make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Never heard of Fox Movietone News, I take it?

    Blondes have never really gone out of fashion, but as America has gotten more nonwhite, the number of brunette sex symbols has declined somewhat. (Other than Asians, blacks, and the Kardashians....)
    , @syonredux

    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.
     
    How anyone could spare a glance for Marilyn Monroe whilst Jane (va-va-voom) Russell was on screen is beyond me
  191. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Making up dirty lyrics to traditional songs is something people have done for ages."

    There were many such filthy parodies sung in the Army.

    In 60s and 70s UK they were known as "rugby songs", to be sung at all-male rugby club drinking sessions, but were also sung by sporty students. As a new undergrad I listened bemused as the studious-looking girls from the potholing* club joined in a hearty chorus of "tooraloo, tooralit, it's a ****ing good song and it's all about ****".


    * cave exploration

    I can recall a student from England at Rice in the 1970s who sang UK rugby songs that were pretty shocking to a genteel Catholic schoolboy like myself.

  192. @Jefferson
    "I don’t know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc"

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

    Compare Marilyn Monroe to Ave Gardner? It’s a ludicrous exercise, a fool’s errand.Ava outmatches Marilyn in every way.

    Jaclyn Smith vs Suzanne Somers? Hah! Bread after meat. Jaclyn makes Suzanne look like an ape in human clothing.

    Caroline Munro vs Pamela Anderson? Don’t make me laugh.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

     

    I'm more even-handed-- black, brown, blond, red, as long as it's natural and gracing a pretty face, it's fine with me. (Though blonds will give you cuter kids.)

    From your statement, I'd guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin' hot Jan Smithers.

    Oh, did she look good at 17!

  193. @Esquire
    I don't know what kind of reputation Rolling Stone has for good journalism with the public or in the industry, but its reputation was pretty abysmal already with me because it was the host of the truth-indifferent sensational writings of Matt Taibbi.

    However: I am a little worried that the Sailersphere is setting itself up for embarrassment here. Sure, Sabrina R.E. is a hack, and the story is shoddily reported and surely exaggerated. It *might* be a total fabrication, and it was totally fair to call for moderation and skepticism. But terrible stuff does happen in the world, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and I would definitely not go "all in" on the notion that there was no real horrific crime here.

    It’s important not to assume nothing bad happened. It’s just part of the pattern of the media choosing the worst cases to go all in on.

  194. @Ivy
    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.

    Never heard of Fox Movietone News, I take it?

    Blondes have never really gone out of fashion, but as America has gotten more nonwhite, the number of brunette sex symbols has declined somewhat. (Other than Asians, blacks, and the Kardashians….)

  195. @Ivy
    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.

    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.

    How anyone could spare a glance for Marilyn Monroe whilst Jane (va-va-voom) Russell was on screen is beyond me

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Monroe was naturally brunette. Almost all the blonde female icons were and are.
    , @Ivy
    But did the Kennedys ever sample her charms?
    Jayne Mansfield and Sophia Loren are two more exemplars of past beauty, from a simpler era. Grace Kelly was also a fan favorite. Blondes, brunette and the occasional redhead amused and titillated many young and not so young boys.
  196. Men are attracted to the opposite type from what they are.

  197. @syonredux

    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.
     
    How anyone could spare a glance for Marilyn Monroe whilst Jane (va-va-voom) Russell was on screen is beyond me

    Monroe was naturally brunette. Almost all the blonde female icons were and are.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Europeans' hair color often changes when exposed to the sun (and chlorine in pool water). Chicago's Loop is full of blondish men in suits in July but not in February. Female actresses and models can't afford to spend time in the sun, however.
  198. @syonredux

    The Fox News Channel
     
    What do those tasteless clods over at FOX NEWS know about Western Civilization?

    hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.
     
    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    No true conservative plays silly status games.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    No true conservative plays silly status games.
     
    Perish the thought, dear fellow.This isn't about playing "silly status games." This is about drawing the thin red line between Western Civilization and barbarism. FOX NEWS is a dire combination of neo-conservatism and vulgarity. Watching it is like immersing oneself in slime.
  199. Yes, agree. I’m not trying to defend boorish behavior by fraternities. I saw plenty of it and engaged in some of it myself in college. But fraternity houses are not really the underlying cause; they’re just a more convenient place to do this stuff than an off campus house or a dorm. The problem is permissive attitudes toward academic indolence, alcohol abuse and promiscuity. Another ingredient is the coy nature of female sexuality. Throw in youthful hormones, too.

    For all the criticism that’s thrown the way of fraternities, the key point is that girls still show up to their parties in droves. Why? Because that’s where the cool guys are. There are plenty of girls who, even when they’re stone cold sober, will gladly sleep with frat guys. The guys know this and the non-promiscuous girls see this as well.

    [MORE]

    I think the following is an extremely common scenario: a girl on the prudish side (maybe not Charlotte Simmons, but something like that) heads to a fraternity because there’s some cute guys there and she has no intention of having sex but wouldn’t mind meeting a boy and making out for a while. A guy indeed starts giving her attention and she drinks a lot more than she usually does.

    From the guy’s perspective, he’s been down this road before. He’s also drunk, and things are moving a little more slowly than usual but she’s giving all the right signs. He assumes that this will end in consensual sex. The girl ends up in the guy’s room and either gives no resistance because she’s too inebriated or only shows minor concern about moving too fast. Even girls with easy reputations in his frat would say things like or “I don’t normally do this” or “No, not yet” the first time he tried to unbutton something. This is why I mentioned female coyness and it’s where you can get seriously dangerous ambiguity between a promiscuous girl who needs to assuage her natural instinct to not put out to easily, and a genuinely hesitant girl who may want at least some semblance of a relationship. I’m reminded of this Louis CK video:

    To continue the story, she wakes up the next day conflicted at what she did, and the guy callously treats the encounter as if she’d known this would happen the entire time. She resents the pace that he moved at. Now, is this rape? It could in a strict sense be called non-consensual, but is the young man in this story a predator?

    In a Ross Douthat article earlier this year, he cited a study that showed a disconnect between the amount of sex that people were having, and how much sex they perceived others to having. People tend to think others are having lots of sex. This has an impact on both genders. It leads to young men assuming that most girls really are easy and looking for it. After all, every Sunday afternoon during football their buddies regale them with tales of conquest from the weekend. It leads to chaste girls feeling like they need to move faster than they otherwise might like to if they’re going to win and keep the attention of a young man. After all, that boy from class always seems to be accompanied by a girl with sorority letters on her sweatpants.

    Colleges are generally tolerant of both underage drinking and promiscuity. Students get several violations before they’re kicked out for a semester, and the campus health center gives out free birth control (I believe mine actually provided Plan B). Grade inflation means that students can drink 3-4 nights a week and still scrape by with a 3.0 GPA.

    Fraternities are easy targets because they’re filled with white men. The underlying cause of “rape culture,” however, is the extremely liberal attitudes toward youthful indiscretion, substance abuse, and promiscuity on campuses. Banning fraternity houses will not prevent students from partying in other venues.

    My personal solution would be onerous grading curves on any course larger than 20 students, stricter punishments for alcohol and drug abuse (while simultaneously lowering the drinking age to 18 to make it easier to obtain alcohol outside of environments dominated by upper classmen, though that’s outside the control of universities), and ending women’s studies programs.

    The truly difficult thing to do is to end the perception that “everyone is being promiscuous, so I should be getting in on it too.” This atmosphere makes it extremely difficult to have a stable relationship as a college student. It’s kind of like the increased divorce rate in our society except the relationships are on a compressed time scale relative to marriage. I don’t really have a solution (not even politically unpalatable ones like grading curves and abolition of women’s studies.)

  200. Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did ‘Jackie’ ever meet Liz ?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did ‘Jackie’ ever meet Liz ?
     
    Here's Seccuro's tale of her rape:

    The Phi Kappa Psi house was lit up like a Christmas tree, and we could see revelers gathered with cups of beer on the porch and dancing in the large rooms inside. I was introduced to several of the fraternity brothers, one of whom asked if Jim and I would like a house tour. We agreed and climbed the grand staircase. Upstairs, Jim was offered pot, and left me for a while to smoke. I saw people I knew from my dorm, so I felt comfortable. Someone offered me punch, calling it "the house special." Though I had a beer and didn't want to drink more, I didn't want to seem like a loser, either. So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.
    A tall, owlish-looking young man introduced himself as Will and kept leaning in to whisper in my ear. I felt like Alice in Wonderland. Everything was in slow-motion. Will took me by the hand and lifted me off the couch. I could barely walk. He began to yank me into a room, insisting that he wanted to show me something. Pulling. Dragging. As he tightened his grip on me and told me to relax, I broke free and ran. But another fraternity brother caught me, picked me up like a sack of autumn leaves, threw me over his shoulder, and shoved me back into the room. The door slammed shut loudly and the lights were cut. I swam in total blackness. Someone was holding me up and ripping my clothes off roughly, restraining me first by one arm, then the other. I had never been naked in front of anyone in my life. I screamed "No!" repeatedly. Then, with a wash of pain, I passed out.
    Hours later, sunlight streamed through the window. I opened my eyes and assessed my situation. With horror, I saw the bloodstains from my thighs all the way down to my ankles. At 17, I had no experience with crime or with sex, but I knew that after something so unspeakably violent I needed to get to a hospital. In 1984, there were no cell phones, no easy way to call a friend, so I just willed myself to walk. When I arrived at the University of Virginia Medical Center, I approached a desk and stood there like a ghost. "I've been raped," I said. "I need to see a doctor." I was left waiting for what seemed like hours, and then the nurse on duty informed me that the hospital didn't have the tests that needed to be conducted on rape victims. I'd have to go to Richmond or Washington, D.C. for that. There was no way I could make the trip, so I gathered my things and walked out the door.
     
    Three men, not seven ("Drew" as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.Maybe something similar happened to Jackie and she decided to gild the lily, as it were?
  201. @Lot
    Another issue is a prolonged gang rape would be pretty hard to pull off in the middle of a big party. The college parties I went to, all the rooms upstairs would be used to hold coats and to smoke pot.

    People would pop in and out, and open doors without knocking looking to smoke out or for a bathroom. Over a three hour period, even if locked, the door handle was probably wiggled 40 times and knocked on 20 times.

    The fellow freshmen also don't sound like real 18 year olds. Is it really realistic that they would not be invited to parties because a friend "cried rape?" Like there is a big frat blacklist and they get together to share notes and add people to ban lists, including guilt by association? And how many 18 year olds have the mature and very politically incorrect "cry rape" phrase in their vocabulary?

    Another thing that doesn't match my experience are the beer bottles. Every big party I went to had a keg and used big solo cups. People also did not hand girls drinks, except directly from the keg. Mixed drinks were made on a little table that had various bottles of liquor and mixers sitting on them. Beer bottles at a party with 100s of drunken kids would get broken all over the floor and quickly ruin the party. The liquor bottles too were generally 1.75L plastic bottles. (possible exception would be a closely guarded bottle of Gold Schlager)

    Finally, while I suppose the fetish exists, how many men really would be willing to not just have sex with "sloppy seconds" but fifths and sixths? That's disgusting. And wholly unnecessary at a party full of drunk freshmen.

    Everyone is a sociopath in the article: the rapists, the college admins, and the freshmen friends. In reality, prestigious college students are among the most altruistic and idealistic cohort you can find.

    You mean the people who end up getting jobs writing articles that promote the 1 in 5 statistic? The people who end up getting jobs promoting/lying about Obamacare? You mean the entire mainstream media? Those people are the most altruistic?

    Interesting definition of altruistic ya got there, buddy.

  202. @Jefferson
    "I don’t know; it seems to me that there is a rich history of celebrated brunette beauties:Ava Gardner, Linda Darnell, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Collins, Megan Fox, Courtney Cox, Teri Hatcher, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc"

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    No their ain’t. Blonde hair seldom survives the young adult years. It’s coming out of a bottle. I doubt you’ll find one natural blonde in front of a camera at Fox or any other network.

    This is Jessica Savitch as a juvenile radio reporter in 1963

    This is what Jessica Savitch thought she had to look like applying for work at local television stations in 1969

    This is Jessica Savitch the last year of her life and work:

    Less is more, but people in the media will not figure it out.

    • Replies: @ByronK

    Blonde hair seldom survives the young adult years. It’s coming out of a bottle.
     
    You're probably right. Even Marissa Mayer was a brunette in her youth.
  203. There’s floating around on the Internet a purported divorce filing by the ex-wife of a wealthy bad guy who has devoted his immense PR skills to persecuting politically incorrect people. But I won’t link to it because who knows how much of it is pure BS.

    -Steve Sailer

    I’ve read it, and it’s just boilerplate defamation, with a few serious allegations such as accusing him of felonious assault (breaking her jaw). Some of it could be true, but with these things you just have no way of knowing because people lie so much in family court. This was one of the reasons no-fault divorce was considered a reform when first signed into law. People (erroneously) thought it would do away with this nonsense.

    Mia Farrow’s attacks on Woody Allen were even worse, and it appears that she successfully convinced their daughter that Allen molested her when she was a toddler.

    I’m quite serious when I say that this sort of journalism reflects family court. The made-up stories, character assassination, feverish accusations and allegations, damsel in distress needing to be rescued trope and all that sound exactly like what I had to listen to over and over while waiting my turn in family court. Almost every time the judge called a contested case before the bench it was like he pulled a string in a doll’s back, upon which you’d hear the same story of a violent sociopath terrorizing a pure, innocent woman and child.

    If it were all true, we’d need mobile triage units in every neighborhood on a 24-hour basis.

    BTW, I grew up very close to and spent a lot of my youth in a tough neighborhood, and what amazes me is how safe colleges are given how many young people attend. Serious violence and sexual assault were an order of magnitude worse where I lived when I was a very young man, but somehow none of the “take back the night” marches went there.

    Also, someone on Taki’s said frat boys are suburban pansies. It doesn’t sound nice, but it’s true. Very, very few of them have what it takes to rape. People who commit forcible rape of women are usually scary, hypermasculine dudes with a very casual attitude toward crime. They typically look like the kinds of guys who could rape someone, which is why I think people are so fascinated with exception proves the rule types like Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Check out photos of Jesse Matthew, who abducted and murdered a UVA coed in September.
  204. @syonredux

    The Fox News Channel
     
    What do those tasteless clods over at FOX NEWS know about Western Civilization?

    hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.
     
    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    Fox News deserves credit for being better than all other news stations –in either the US or Europe.

  205. @Bill P

    There’s floating around on the Internet a purported divorce filing by the ex-wife of a wealthy bad guy who has devoted his immense PR skills to persecuting politically incorrect people. But I won’t link to it because who knows how much of it is pure BS.

    -Steve Sailer
     
    I've read it, and it's just boilerplate defamation, with a few serious allegations such as accusing him of felonious assault (breaking her jaw). Some of it could be true, but with these things you just have no way of knowing because people lie so much in family court. This was one of the reasons no-fault divorce was considered a reform when first signed into law. People (erroneously) thought it would do away with this nonsense.

    Mia Farrow's attacks on Woody Allen were even worse, and it appears that she successfully convinced their daughter that Allen molested her when she was a toddler.

    I'm quite serious when I say that this sort of journalism reflects family court. The made-up stories, character assassination, feverish accusations and allegations, damsel in distress needing to be rescued trope and all that sound exactly like what I had to listen to over and over while waiting my turn in family court. Almost every time the judge called a contested case before the bench it was like he pulled a string in a doll's back, upon which you'd hear the same story of a violent sociopath terrorizing a pure, innocent woman and child.

    If it were all true, we'd need mobile triage units in every neighborhood on a 24-hour basis.

    BTW, I grew up very close to and spent a lot of my youth in a tough neighborhood, and what amazes me is how safe colleges are given how many young people attend. Serious violence and sexual assault were an order of magnitude worse where I lived when I was a very young man, but somehow none of the "take back the night" marches went there.

    Also, someone on Taki's said frat boys are suburban pansies. It doesn't sound nice, but it's true. Very, very few of them have what it takes to rape. People who commit forcible rape of women are usually scary, hypermasculine dudes with a very casual attitude toward crime. They typically look like the kinds of guys who could rape someone, which is why I think people are so fascinated with exception proves the rule types like Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez.

    Check out photos of Jesse Matthew, who abducted and murdered a UVA coed in September.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    Yes, Jesse Matthew looks like what he is. He was also linked by DNA to the kidnap-murder of another coed, Morgan Harrington.
  206. @Hare Krishna
    Monroe was naturally brunette. Almost all the blonde female icons were and are.

    Europeans’ hair color often changes when exposed to the sun (and chlorine in pool water). Chicago’s Loop is full of blondish men in suits in July but not in February. Female actresses and models can’t afford to spend time in the sun, however.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    "Europeans’ hair color often changes when exposed to the sun (and chlorine in pool water). "

    And the hair color of Europeans tends to darken with age, until it goes gray. This is why some people believe the myth that blondes are dying out - they remember lots of blondes around when they were kids, but don't notice as many now that they're adults.
  207. @syonredux

    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes hit the silver screen long before there was any news in the Fox organization.
     
    How anyone could spare a glance for Marilyn Monroe whilst Jane (va-va-voom) Russell was on screen is beyond me

    But did the Kennedys ever sample her charms?
    Jayne Mansfield and Sophia Loren are two more exemplars of past beauty, from a simpler era. Grace Kelly was also a fan favorite. Blondes, brunette and the occasional redhead amused and titillated many young and not so young boys.

  208. @Steve Sailer
    Check out photos of Jesse Matthew, who abducted and murdered a UVA coed in September.

    Yes, Jesse Matthew looks like what he is. He was also linked by DNA to the kidnap-murder of another coed, Morgan Harrington.

  209. But did the Kennedys ever sample her charms?

    Jane was too good for a pair of jumped up Irish thugs with a Harvard veneer

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Jane was quite religious and a goody-goody off-screen, in direct contrast to her naughty screen image. She was a born again Christian who went to the same church as her close friends Roy Rogers and Dale Evans. Not someone the Kennedys would have seen as a potential lay.

    Yet, she had a long-running extramarital affair with her frequent co-star Robert Mitchum, which spanned decades and lasted until his death. Dorothy Mitchum and Jane's husband Bob Waterfield were fully aware of the affair.
  210. @candid_observer
    I think that, at this point, using the glass shards problem as evidence that the story is false is probably unnecessary -- the story is falling apart on its own, and I can't imagine it being defended even by the worst hacks for much longer. (Well, OK, the worst hacks will keep it up. But not the next to the worst.)

    Insofar as it's useful to think about all this glass, it's as a literary device, and so discussion should be in the form of literary criticism--much as Steve has pursued it. It's like a movie review (another favorite of Steve's), not journalism.

    I have not been able to track it down just now, but a blog comment claimed that the UVA frat claimed that no member in 2012 was ever employed at the aquatic center, where the victim claimed to be a coworker with the frat member who set her up. also, the frat noted that it conducts rush in the spring of the academic year, not the fall, when Jackie said that rape by pledges occurred. they also noted that they are required to register all frat parties with the college admin, and that none was held on sept, 28.
    I think there are way too many signs of hoaxing to credit any of her story.

    • Replies: @GW
    I saw something like this too, I believe in the comments of the original RS article. It could be hearsay, but these are the facts which any good journalist should at least double check before publishing such an article.
  211. @Luke
    Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did 'Jackie' ever meet Liz ?

    Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did ‘Jackie’ ever meet Liz ?

    Here’s Seccuro’s tale of her rape:

    The Phi Kappa Psi house was lit up like a Christmas tree, and we could see revelers gathered with cups of beer on the porch and dancing in the large rooms inside. I was introduced to several of the fraternity brothers, one of whom asked if Jim and I would like a house tour. We agreed and climbed the grand staircase. Upstairs, Jim was offered pot, and left me for a while to smoke. I saw people I knew from my dorm, so I felt comfortable. Someone offered me punch, calling it “the house special.” Though I had a beer and didn’t want to drink more, I didn’t want to seem like a loser, either. So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.
    A tall, owlish-looking young man introduced himself as Will and kept leaning in to whisper in my ear. I felt like Alice in Wonderland. Everything was in slow-motion. Will took me by the hand and lifted me off the couch. I could barely walk. He began to yank me into a room, insisting that he wanted to show me something. Pulling. Dragging. As he tightened his grip on me and told me to relax, I broke free and ran. But another fraternity brother caught me, picked me up like a sack of autumn leaves, threw me over his shoulder, and shoved me back into the room. The door slammed shut loudly and the lights were cut. I swam in total blackness. Someone was holding me up and ripping my clothes off roughly, restraining me first by one arm, then the other. I had never been naked in front of anyone in my life. I screamed “No!” repeatedly. Then, with a wash of pain, I passed out.
    Hours later, sunlight streamed through the window. I opened my eyes and assessed my situation. With horror, I saw the bloodstains from my thighs all the way down to my ankles. At 17, I had no experience with crime or with sex, but I knew that after something so unspeakably violent I needed to get to a hospital. In 1984, there were no cell phones, no easy way to call a friend, so I just willed myself to walk. When I arrived at the University of Virginia Medical Center, I approached a desk and stood there like a ghost. “I’ve been raped,” I said. “I need to see a doctor.” I was left waiting for what seemed like hours, and then the nurse on duty informed me that the hospital didn’t have the tests that needed to be conducted on rape victims. I’d have to go to Richmond or Washington, D.C. for that. There was no way I could make the trip, so I gathered my things and walked out the door.

    Three men, not seven (“Drew” as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.Maybe something similar happened to Jackie and she decided to gild the lily, as it were?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy."

    GHB/benzos/ludes/roofies all take at least 15 minutes to kick in.
    , @Anonymous
    Three men, not seven (“Drew” as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.

    What evidence is there that this particular rape occurred? (And if these people were intent on drugging and raping a woman, why would they do a gang rape? Do guys fantasize about sharing a female partner with other men?)
  212. @Art Deco
    Dear fellow, no true conservative would be caught dead watching FOX NEWS

    No true conservative plays silly status games.

    No true conservative plays silly status games.

    Perish the thought, dear fellow.This isn’t about playing “silly status games.” This is about drawing the thin red line between Western Civilization and barbarism. FOX NEWS is a dire combination of neo-conservatism and vulgarity. Watching it is like immersing oneself in slime.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    It's a silly status game. Sorry to break it to you. There is no such thing as a 'neo-conservative' and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox's production values.
  213. @syonredux

    But did the Kennedys ever sample her charms?
     
    Jane was too good for a pair of jumped up Irish thugs with a Harvard veneer

    Jane was quite religious and a goody-goody off-screen, in direct contrast to her naughty screen image. She was a born again Christian who went to the same church as her close friends Roy Rogers and Dale Evans. Not someone the Kennedys would have seen as a potential lay.

    Yet, she had a long-running extramarital affair with her frequent co-star Robert Mitchum, which spanned decades and lasted until his death. Dorothy Mitchum and Jane’s husband Bob Waterfield were fully aware of the affair.

  214. @DPG
    Fraternities are punished regularly, but it's done quietly and on an ad hoc basis. At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two. They would have to be recolonized, and the kids recruited to recolonize (often the recruitment effort spearheaded by hoary chapter alumni and the national fraternity's upstanding field secretaries) were bookish types who didn't want to deal with the competitive nature of rush and the subsequent hazing. After a few years they would attract mild-mannered guys who were a bit cooler than the initial colony, but didn't quite fit in with the party hardy crowd. Their reputation would start to improve and the cycle would start anew. They'd be on the path to being kicked off campus again in 15-20 years.

    I'll grant you that fraternities make it easier for bad behavior, but it's really about the general culture. Colleges turn a blind eye to underage drinking, have allowed rampant grade inflation that eases the ability of students to party, and actively promote promiscuity through various means (free birth control, sex ed classes, slut walks, etc.) For example, the Duke Lacrosse case occurred at off campus housing. The Occidental story about a rape accusation occurred between first-semester freshmen.

    At my heavily Greek school, it was practically an epicycle. A frat with a party reputation would attract the heaviest partiers until their behavior got too out of line and the university would shut them down for a year or two.

    Is Dean Wormer still there?

  215. “We helped bring a more balanced perspective to the attention of the world.”

    And I have yet to see a single person mention you for it. You remain verboten. When that changes, then we’ll see real change.

  216. @Steve Sailer
    "Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year?"

    That's implied although not completely stated in the article.

    You'd think that after all these years or decades, they'd at least have learned that when prepping the rape room to move the glass table out of the way.

    It’s probably the first time it happened; I’m sure they added it to the bylaws after this incident.

    Seriously though, Susan Walsh at Hooking Up Smart makes a pretty convincing case that there is a significant rape problem on college campuses and that it is done by a small number of serial rapists. The problem I see with stories like this one is they are trying to group all men, or all of a certain kind of men (fraternity members) as potential or even likely rapists. The fraternity guys look around and say “I would never do that and I can’t imagine my friends doing that so it sounds like BS”. It’s not a good way to get action on the problem.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    there is a significant rape problem on college campuses

    There is a significant rape problem in the society at large, if, by significant, you mean it happens often enough to be familiar even to small-town municipal police.

    The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there are about 260,000 'rapes or sexual assaults' or attempts toward that end (according to their data collection method) in a given year in this country. They do not decompose this statistic in their recent data reports, but from mining reports from a generation ago, one can posit that perhaps 30% of this population of offenses consist of rapes. So, you have about 80,000 rapes in a year. I've seen contentions in print that about 12% of criminal perpetrators are drawn from bourgeois strata, and that roughly 55% of all perpetrators are of collegiate age (18-25). Let's posit there is not much co-variance between the severity of a crime, the social status of the perpetrator, and the age range of the perpetrator. Let us posit further that 90% of the sexual assaults by collegians occur during the school year. So, you have 10,000 rapes by bourgeois, 5,500 by bourgeois of college age, and 5,000 by bourgeios on campus.

    Now, 770,000 women matriculate at baccalaureate-granting institutions in a typical year. If you have 5,000 rapes for every 770,000 matriculants, that suggests your chances of being raped during your tour in higher education would be about 0.65%. That's a rough back-of-the-envelope stab at assessing the dimensions of the problem.
  217. @syonredux

    Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did ‘Jackie’ ever meet Liz ?
     
    Here's Seccuro's tale of her rape:

    The Phi Kappa Psi house was lit up like a Christmas tree, and we could see revelers gathered with cups of beer on the porch and dancing in the large rooms inside. I was introduced to several of the fraternity brothers, one of whom asked if Jim and I would like a house tour. We agreed and climbed the grand staircase. Upstairs, Jim was offered pot, and left me for a while to smoke. I saw people I knew from my dorm, so I felt comfortable. Someone offered me punch, calling it "the house special." Though I had a beer and didn't want to drink more, I didn't want to seem like a loser, either. So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.
    A tall, owlish-looking young man introduced himself as Will and kept leaning in to whisper in my ear. I felt like Alice in Wonderland. Everything was in slow-motion. Will took me by the hand and lifted me off the couch. I could barely walk. He began to yank me into a room, insisting that he wanted to show me something. Pulling. Dragging. As he tightened his grip on me and told me to relax, I broke free and ran. But another fraternity brother caught me, picked me up like a sack of autumn leaves, threw me over his shoulder, and shoved me back into the room. The door slammed shut loudly and the lights were cut. I swam in total blackness. Someone was holding me up and ripping my clothes off roughly, restraining me first by one arm, then the other. I had never been naked in front of anyone in my life. I screamed "No!" repeatedly. Then, with a wash of pain, I passed out.
    Hours later, sunlight streamed through the window. I opened my eyes and assessed my situation. With horror, I saw the bloodstains from my thighs all the way down to my ankles. At 17, I had no experience with crime or with sex, but I knew that after something so unspeakably violent I needed to get to a hospital. In 1984, there were no cell phones, no easy way to call a friend, so I just willed myself to walk. When I arrived at the University of Virginia Medical Center, I approached a desk and stood there like a ghost. "I've been raped," I said. "I need to see a doctor." I was left waiting for what seemed like hours, and then the nurse on duty informed me that the hospital didn't have the tests that needed to be conducted on rape victims. I'd have to go to Richmond or Washington, D.C. for that. There was no way I could make the trip, so I gathered my things and walked out the door.
     
    Three men, not seven ("Drew" as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.Maybe something similar happened to Jackie and she decided to gild the lily, as it were?

    “So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.”

    GHB/benzos/ludes/roofies all take at least 15 minutes to kick in.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.”

    GHB/benzos/ludes/roofies all take at least 15 minutes to kick in.
     
    I'm willing to allow a certain degree of time compression after a traumatic event.
  218. Numerous identity politics uproars, such as Ferguson, Trayvon, and Duke Lacrosse…

    Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
    Can you tell me where to look?
    I thought I saw him walkin’ up over the hill
    With Ferguson, Trayvon, and Duke…

  219. @Anonymous
    "So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy."

    GHB/benzos/ludes/roofies all take at least 15 minutes to kick in.

    “So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.”

    GHB/benzos/ludes/roofies all take at least 15 minutes to kick in.

    I’m willing to allow a certain degree of time compression after a traumatic event.

  220. @syonredux

    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.
     
    Fah! I'll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

    Compare Marilyn Monroe to Ave Gardner? It's a ludicrous exercise, a fool's errand.Ava outmatches Marilyn in every way.

    Jaclyn Smith vs Suzanne Somers? Hah! Bread after meat. Jaclyn makes Suzanne look like an ape in human clothing.

    Caroline Munro vs Pamela Anderson? Don't make me laugh.

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

    I’m more even-handed– black, brown, blond, red, as long as it’s natural and gracing a pretty face, it’s fine with me. (Though blonds will give you cuter kids.)

    From your statement, I’d guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin’ hot Jan Smithers.

    Oh, did she look good at 17!

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The Bailey character was attractive without being 'smokin hot'. The Jennifer character was camp.
    , @syonredux

    From your statement, I’d guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin’ hot Jan Smithers.
     
    That goes without saying.
    , @Brutusale
    I was always a big fan of Jan Smithers!

    I felt the same way about Mila Kunis' teenaged stick figure as the sexy one, while the seriously dressed- down Laura Prepon floated my boat!

    https://www.google.com/search?q=laura+prepon+hot+photos&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&imgil=RnASJma6jtq9NM%253A%253BwxvuzLnpahL_LM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%252
  221. @Steve Sailer
    Right. Caitlin did a big hostile article on fraternities recently, especially deaths and crippling from drunk students falling off balconies during parties. (That happened to a kid I knew.) The national fraternities are very adept at shucking legal responsibility for the damages and getting the parents of individual members to get stuck with the bill.

    Right. Caitlin did a big hostile article on fraternities recently, especially deaths and crippling from drunk students falling off balconies during parties. (That happened to a kid I knew.)

    I give you a brother/sister pair of anecdotes. Sister was on a deck that collapsed at a party. No one was seriously injured. They laughed and made T-shirts that said “Deck Wreck ’89”.

    Brother left his keys in his room. His date went to get them by stepping onto the fraternity’s letters attached to the outside of the building (which happened to be between his room and the next) so that she could open his window, go in, and get the keys.

    She fell and died. Brother also was dropped from height and almost died on another occasion.

  222. @Erik L
    It's probably the first time it happened; I'm sure they added it to the bylaws after this incident.

    Seriously though, Susan Walsh at Hooking Up Smart makes a pretty convincing case that there is a significant rape problem on college campuses and that it is done by a small number of serial rapists. The problem I see with stories like this one is they are trying to group all men, or all of a certain kind of men (fraternity members) as potential or even likely rapists. The fraternity guys look around and say "I would never do that and I can't imagine my friends doing that so it sounds like BS". It's not a good way to get action on the problem.

    there is a significant rape problem on college campuses

    There is a significant rape problem in the society at large, if, by significant, you mean it happens often enough to be familiar even to small-town municipal police.

    The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there are about 260,000 ‘rapes or sexual assaults’ or attempts toward that end (according to their data collection method) in a given year in this country. They do not decompose this statistic in their recent data reports, but from mining reports from a generation ago, one can posit that perhaps 30% of this population of offenses consist of rapes. So, you have about 80,000 rapes in a year. I’ve seen contentions in print that about 12% of criminal perpetrators are drawn from bourgeois strata, and that roughly 55% of all perpetrators are of collegiate age (18-25). Let’s posit there is not much co-variance between the severity of a crime, the social status of the perpetrator, and the age range of the perpetrator. Let us posit further that 90% of the sexual assaults by collegians occur during the school year. So, you have 10,000 rapes by bourgeois, 5,500 by bourgeois of college age, and 5,000 by bourgeios on campus.

    Now, 770,000 women matriculate at baccalaureate-granting institutions in a typical year. If you have 5,000 rapes for every 770,000 matriculants, that suggests your chances of being raped during your tour in higher education would be about 0.65%. That’s a rough back-of-the-envelope stab at assessing the dimensions of the problem.

    • Replies: @Erik L
    I'm not invested enough to moderate the discussion. You can check her website if you are interested. I believe the discrepancy is down to method. My guess is that the stats you quote are based on reports to the police while hers are based on men reporting using force or having sex with a girl who was intoxicated enough to be incapacitated.
  223. @Reg Cæsar

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

     

    I'm more even-handed-- black, brown, blond, red, as long as it's natural and gracing a pretty face, it's fine with me. (Though blonds will give you cuter kids.)

    From your statement, I'd guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin' hot Jan Smithers.

    Oh, did she look good at 17!

    The Bailey character was attractive without being ‘smokin hot’. The Jennifer character was camp.

  224. I don’t know what kind of reputation Rolling Stone has for good journalism with the public or in the industry

    They’ve had their moments. I remember a great piece by Greider in the late 1980’s on the exaggeration of the risk of contracting AIDS heterosexually.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Rolling Stone was quite popular and profitable for a long time. For example, Jan Wenner paid Tom Wolfe, coming off the success of 1979's "The Right Stuff" a lot of money to publish "Bonfire of the Vanities" in Rolling Stone as a serial in the mid-1980s. But, the first draft wasn't terribly good, so Wolfe rewrote it heavily before publishing it as a book in 1987.

    RS employed a lot of famous rock critics like Greil Marcus and Gary Gilmore's brother Mikal Gilmore. It was the leading rock music magazine at a time when rock music was huge.

    , @Art Deco
    I remember a great piece by Greider in the late 1980′s on the exaggeration of the risk of contracting AIDS heterosexually.

    Cribbed off Michael Fumento, no doubt.
  225. @syonredux

    No true conservative plays silly status games.
     
    Perish the thought, dear fellow.This isn't about playing "silly status games." This is about drawing the thin red line between Western Civilization and barbarism. FOX NEWS is a dire combination of neo-conservatism and vulgarity. Watching it is like immersing oneself in slime.

    It’s a silly status game. Sorry to break it to you. There is no such thing as a ‘neo-conservative’ and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox’s production values.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    It’s a silly status game.Sorry to break it to you.
     
    Ah, dear boy, to be so young and foolish.....

    There is no such thing as a ‘neo-conservative’
     
    Quite right.They are simply traitors.

    and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox’s production values.
     
    .

    No, Western Civilization is being injured by their moral and aesthetic values. FOX NEWS is a morass, a vile compendium of treason vulgarity.
    , @syonredux

    It’s a silly status game.Sorry to break it to you.
     
    Ah, dear boy, to be so young and foolish…..

    There is no such thing as a ‘neo-conservative’
     
    Quite right.They are simply traitors.

    and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox’s production values.
     
    .

    No, Western Civilization is being injured by their moral and aesthetic values. FOX NEWS is a morass, a vile compendium of treason and vulgarity.
  226. @Art Deco
    There is an even richer history of celebrated blonde beauties in Western media.

    No their ain't. Blonde hair seldom survives the young adult years. It's coming out of a bottle. I doubt you'll find one natural blonde in front of a camera at Fox or any other network.



    This is Jessica Savitch as a juvenile radio reporter in 1963

    http://www.jessicasavitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jessica1-e1340007841226.jpg


    This is what Jessica Savitch thought she had to look like applying for work at local television stations in 1969

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1492760/thumbs/o-85584533-570.jpg


    This is Jessica Savitch the last year of her life and work:

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4jjIjfnPB9k/hqdefault.jpg


    Less is more, but people in the media will not figure it out.

    Blonde hair seldom survives the young adult years. It’s coming out of a bottle.

    You’re probably right. Even Marissa Mayer was a brunette in her youth.

  227. @ben tillman

    I don’t know what kind of reputation Rolling Stone has for good journalism with the public or in the industry
     
    They've had their moments. I remember a great piece by Greider in the late 1980's on the exaggeration of the risk of contracting AIDS heterosexually.

    Rolling Stone was quite popular and profitable for a long time. For example, Jan Wenner paid Tom Wolfe, coming off the success of 1979’s “The Right Stuff” a lot of money to publish “Bonfire of the Vanities” in Rolling Stone as a serial in the mid-1980s. But, the first draft wasn’t terribly good, so Wolfe rewrote it heavily before publishing it as a book in 1987.

    RS employed a lot of famous rock critics like Greil Marcus and Gary Gilmore’s brother Mikal Gilmore. It was the leading rock music magazine at a time when rock music was huge.

  228. @Lot
    Another issue is a prolonged gang rape would be pretty hard to pull off in the middle of a big party. The college parties I went to, all the rooms upstairs would be used to hold coats and to smoke pot.

    People would pop in and out, and open doors without knocking looking to smoke out or for a bathroom. Over a three hour period, even if locked, the door handle was probably wiggled 40 times and knocked on 20 times.

    The fellow freshmen also don't sound like real 18 year olds. Is it really realistic that they would not be invited to parties because a friend "cried rape?" Like there is a big frat blacklist and they get together to share notes and add people to ban lists, including guilt by association? And how many 18 year olds have the mature and very politically incorrect "cry rape" phrase in their vocabulary?

    Another thing that doesn't match my experience are the beer bottles. Every big party I went to had a keg and used big solo cups. People also did not hand girls drinks, except directly from the keg. Mixed drinks were made on a little table that had various bottles of liquor and mixers sitting on them. Beer bottles at a party with 100s of drunken kids would get broken all over the floor and quickly ruin the party. The liquor bottles too were generally 1.75L plastic bottles. (possible exception would be a closely guarded bottle of Gold Schlager)

    Finally, while I suppose the fetish exists, how many men really would be willing to not just have sex with "sloppy seconds" but fifths and sixths? That's disgusting. And wholly unnecessary at a party full of drunk freshmen.

    Everyone is a sociopath in the article: the rapists, the college admins, and the freshmen friends. In reality, prestigious college students are among the most altruistic and idealistic cohort you can find.

    You mean the people who end up getting jobs writing articles that promote the 1 in 5 statistic? The people who end up getting jobs promoting/lying about Obamacare? You mean the entire mainstream media? Those people are the most altruistic?

    ORLY.

  229. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Google Liz Seccuro-gang raped at uva in 1984 by three members of this same fraternity. Did ‘Jackie’ ever meet Liz ?
     
    Here's Seccuro's tale of her rape:

    The Phi Kappa Psi house was lit up like a Christmas tree, and we could see revelers gathered with cups of beer on the porch and dancing in the large rooms inside. I was introduced to several of the fraternity brothers, one of whom asked if Jim and I would like a house tour. We agreed and climbed the grand staircase. Upstairs, Jim was offered pot, and left me for a while to smoke. I saw people I knew from my dorm, so I felt comfortable. Someone offered me punch, calling it "the house special." Though I had a beer and didn't want to drink more, I didn't want to seem like a loser, either. So he poured the pale, citrusy green drink in a small, clear plastic tumbler, and I sipped it. Almost instantly I began to feel light-headed and dizzy.
    A tall, owlish-looking young man introduced himself as Will and kept leaning in to whisper in my ear. I felt like Alice in Wonderland. Everything was in slow-motion. Will took me by the hand and lifted me off the couch. I could barely walk. He began to yank me into a room, insisting that he wanted to show me something. Pulling. Dragging. As he tightened his grip on me and told me to relax, I broke free and ran. But another fraternity brother caught me, picked me up like a sack of autumn leaves, threw me over his shoulder, and shoved me back into the room. The door slammed shut loudly and the lights were cut. I swam in total blackness. Someone was holding me up and ripping my clothes off roughly, restraining me first by one arm, then the other. I had never been naked in front of anyone in my life. I screamed "No!" repeatedly. Then, with a wash of pain, I passed out.
    Hours later, sunlight streamed through the window. I opened my eyes and assessed my situation. With horror, I saw the bloodstains from my thighs all the way down to my ankles. At 17, I had no experience with crime or with sex, but I knew that after something so unspeakably violent I needed to get to a hospital. In 1984, there were no cell phones, no easy way to call a friend, so I just willed myself to walk. When I arrived at the University of Virginia Medical Center, I approached a desk and stood there like a ghost. "I've been raped," I said. "I need to see a doctor." I was left waiting for what seemed like hours, and then the nurse on duty informed me that the hospital didn't have the tests that needed to be conducted on rape victims. I'd have to go to Richmond or Washington, D.C. for that. There was no way I could make the trip, so I gathered my things and walked out the door.
     
    Three men, not seven ("Drew" as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.Maybe something similar happened to Jackie and she decided to gild the lily, as it were?

    Three men, not seven (“Drew” as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.

    What evidence is there that this particular rape occurred? (And if these people were intent on drugging and raping a woman, why would they do a gang rape? Do guys fantasize about sharing a female partner with other men?)

    • Replies: @syonredux

    What evidence is there that this particular rape occurred? (And if these people were intent on drugging and raping a woman, why would they do a gang rape? Do guys fantasize about sharing a female partner with other men?)
     
    One of Liz Seccuro's attackers confessed to the crime:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357706/Rape-victim-Liz-Seccuro-forgave-attacker-20-years-pressed-charges.html
  230. @ben tillman

    I don’t know what kind of reputation Rolling Stone has for good journalism with the public or in the industry
     
    They've had their moments. I remember a great piece by Greider in the late 1980's on the exaggeration of the risk of contracting AIDS heterosexually.

    I remember a great piece by Greider in the late 1980′s on the exaggeration of the risk of contracting AIDS heterosexually.

    Cribbed off Michael Fumento, no doubt.

  231. @I am anonymous
    What is the responsibility of all those retailing the lurid fantasies of an obviously sick and unhappy woman? They are exposing her to the mob for eventual public ridicule and abuse which in the end can't be helpful to her. Instead of trying to get a person needed mental health services they trot her out like an exhibit at a carny show. They're trying to make some point, I suppose, and she's the vehicle for it. It takes about three minutes of reading her account to realize she doesn't have a full deck; it's like those stories of UFO abductees claiming that the aliens sexually assaulted them. Those selling the story must know it's obviously untrue yet play this 'perhaps it's true' game.
    Let's not be surprised if she's found unconscious from a pill overdose.

    “What is the responsibility of all those retailing the lurid fantasies of an obviously sick and unhappy woman? They are exposing her to the mob for eventual public ridicule and abuse which in the end can’t be helpful to her. Instead of trying to get a person needed mental health services they trot her out like an exhibit at a carny show.”

    I’ve considered posting numerous comments on this fast-developing story, something along the lines of how odd it is that every advance in feminism dating back at least to the Progressive era, perhaps even as far back as the 1840’s and ’50s, seems to first involve defiant calls for greater expression of female sexuality, followed shortly after by reactionary wails against the way women are used and abused by the carnal lusts of beastly men.

    (Almost as if the “Madonna vs. Whore” syndrome is something that really exists within women, both individually and collectively.)

    But I can’t. I just can’t.

    I’ve worked in the mental health/homeless systems (there is a great deal of overlap) for nearly a quarter century and I’ve met too many actual, real victims of actual, real violence, both male and female, and plenty of rape victims as well. An exchange student, raped overseas, brought back to a mental hospital in the US, whose plaintive cries of “Rape” echoed through the ward as she was being examined by a male physician. An intelligent but dyslexic girl sent to a special school by parents who were embarrassed by her imperfections, one of the few white students there, raped three times by NAM students, and didn’t tell anyone until years later (I’m sure Rolling Stone will be right on this story any day now…) Another case of a bright and cheerful young lady, whom I ran into several years later, now a drugged-up medicated mess as a result of her rape, and with a young son, the product of her rapist.

    Surely there must be a special circle of hell for those who would use events such as this to score political points.

  232. @Erik L
    Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?

    Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?

    Yes, that is what Erdely claimed.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    To be precise, Erdely _implied_ it was an initiation rite. Presumably she could come with more strained readings of the two quotes from the rapists that don't necessarily state what most readers assumed.
  233. @Jefferson
    "Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me.Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down."

    It doesn't make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty. The Fox News Channel hires mostly blonde haired female news anchors because they know that is what White male conservative viewers love to see.

    There are so many blonde haired women working for The Fox News Channel that it might as well be called The Scandinavian News Channel.

    It doesn’t make sense to you why most White guys prefer blondes over brunettes ? It is because blonde haired women are seen as the epitome of Western female beauty.

    I read somewhere that the public fascination with blondes started during the late 19th Century, with a very popular band of blonde lady singers, whose name I unfortunately can’t remember…

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but during the Renaissance weren’t redheads considered the acme of female beauty?

  234. Here is a website with a number of alternate verses to the Rugby Road song:

    http://reocities.com/RodeoDrive/2693/drink.html

    This appears to be where the author got the additional verses from.

    Some college students said some naughty words. Shocking.

  235. @whorefinder

    Brunettes like Sabrina Rubin Erdely tend to be a bit obsessive about the blonde competition, feeling that they get too much attention from men, etc.

    Frankly, it never made much sense to me. Given a choice between Ava Gardner and Pamela Anderson, Ava wins hands down.
     
    Actually, it's Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason---Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    One only has to view modern Jewish-American art and entertainment to find an inordinate number of "blond bombshells." Portnoy's Complaint, I believe, involved a shishka who was blond; almost all of Mel Brooks's films had the main "bombshell" as a blond (Young Frankenstein, The Producers, Blazing Saddles).

    Or to see secularized Jewish men---they have an inordinate number of blond gfs. Every Jewish man who can remember it goes nuts thinking about Marylin Monroe with Arthur Miller. It was like he was living the dream man.

    Jewish women, naturally, are more than a little piqued at this, hence their constant stream of attacks on blonds.

    Actually, it’s Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason—Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    I haven’t seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of “Rhoda” involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda’s mind…

    • Replies: @whorefinder

    I haven’t seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of “Rhoda” involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda’s mind…
     
    Bingo. the insecurity of Jewish women about shishkas is almost doubled when she's a blond. When you think about movies/TV shows employing blond bombshells, think about the situation having what might be called a "Jewish sensibility." It's been going on for a very long time in American pop culture ("Say goodnight, Gracie").

    It doesn't help Jewish women's insecurity when their men openly extoll shishkas as superior, which often happens in pop culture, mostly as a joke-but-its-really-true trope (Portnoy's Complaint). There was some recent Broadway musical involving this sort of humor--that Jewish women are well aware that they come off as more difficult/less attractive to Jewish men than shishkas.

    In fact, black women and Jewish women have that in common---their men openly talk about how much harder it is to deal with them than blond gentile women. Chris Rock talked about this briefly in one of his star-making stand-ups---how a white woman just did what you said, didn't contradict you, smiled at you, called you daddy, etc.
  236. @ben tillman

    Maybe someone has covered this already but, this was supposed to be part of the initiation ceremony? Do I understand correctly that they are implying this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy that rotates new people in every year? And every year, everyone is confident that no one would ever go to the police?
     
    Yes, that is what Erdely claimed.

    To be precise, Erdely _implied_ it was an initiation rite. Presumably she could come with more strained readings of the two quotes from the rapists that don’t necessarily state what most readers assumed.

  237. @Art Deco
    It's a silly status game. Sorry to break it to you. There is no such thing as a 'neo-conservative' and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox's production values.

    It’s a silly status game.Sorry to break it to you.

    Ah, dear boy, to be so young and foolish…..

    There is no such thing as a ‘neo-conservative’

    Quite right.They are simply traitors.

    and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox’s production values.

    .

    No, Western Civilization is being injured by their moral and aesthetic values. FOX NEWS is a morass, a vile compendium of treason vulgarity.

  238. @Anonymous
    Three men, not seven (“Drew” as general, not as direct participant).And, unlike Jackie, she was drugged and unconscious for most of the ordeal.

    What evidence is there that this particular rape occurred? (And if these people were intent on drugging and raping a woman, why would they do a gang rape? Do guys fantasize about sharing a female partner with other men?)

    What evidence is there that this particular rape occurred? (And if these people were intent on drugging and raping a woman, why would they do a gang rape? Do guys fantasize about sharing a female partner with other men?)

    One of Liz Seccuro’s attackers confessed to the crime:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357706/Rape-victim-Liz-Seccuro-forgave-attacker-20-years-pressed-charges.html

  239. @Art Deco
    It's a silly status game. Sorry to break it to you. There is no such thing as a 'neo-conservative' and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox's production values.

    It’s a silly status game.Sorry to break it to you.

    Ah, dear boy, to be so young and foolish…..

    There is no such thing as a ‘neo-conservative’

    Quite right.They are simply traitors.

    and Western civilization is not going to be injured by Fox’s production values.

    .

    No, Western Civilization is being injured by their moral and aesthetic values. FOX NEWS is a morass, a vile compendium of treason and vulgarity.

  240. @Reg Cæsar

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

     

    I'm more even-handed-- black, brown, blond, red, as long as it's natural and gracing a pretty face, it's fine with me. (Though blonds will give you cuter kids.)

    From your statement, I'd guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin' hot Jan Smithers.

    Oh, did she look good at 17!

    From your statement, I’d guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin’ hot Jan Smithers.

    That goes without saying.

  241. I’ve broken a glass coffee table before, by falling on it. It was soon to make its way to a garage sale so it was no great loss. I wish I could say it left me an authority on how glass coffee tables break, but it was such a non-event that I don’t recall that much about it.

    Needless to say, it broke into more than two pieces but fewer than 100. Also needless to say, though I don’t know how sharp the pieces were, I was not especially inclined to call my wife and ask if she wanted to have sex on them.

  242. “Erdely acknowledged that her story showed one side of UVA culture, “but it is the dominant culture,” she said. Which is why she kept hammering on those “Rugby Road” verses.”

    As everyone knows, no one ever makes up dirty lyrics to pre-existing songs. And of course once those dirty lyrics are made up, they officially become part of the song. Because rape culture. And anyone who sings the original song is responsible for the fact that someone made up dirty lyrics to that song, even if they don’t sing those lyrics.

  243. @Steve Sailer
    Europeans' hair color often changes when exposed to the sun (and chlorine in pool water). Chicago's Loop is full of blondish men in suits in July but not in February. Female actresses and models can't afford to spend time in the sun, however.

    “Europeans’ hair color often changes when exposed to the sun (and chlorine in pool water). “

    And the hair color of Europeans tends to darken with age, until it goes gray. This is why some people believe the myth that blondes are dying out – they remember lots of blondes around when they were kids, but don’t notice as many now that they’re adults.

  244. @HandsomeWhiteDevil
    Actually, it’s Jewish women who obsesses about blonds. And for good reason—Jewish men obsess about blonds.

    I haven't seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of "Rhoda" involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda's mind...

    I haven’t seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of “Rhoda” involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda’s mind…

    Bingo. the insecurity of Jewish women about shishkas is almost doubled when she’s a blond. When you think about movies/TV shows employing blond bombshells, think about the situation having what might be called a “Jewish sensibility.” It’s been going on for a very long time in American pop culture (“Say goodnight, Gracie”).

    It doesn’t help Jewish women’s insecurity when their men openly extoll shishkas as superior, which often happens in pop culture, mostly as a joke-but-its-really-true trope (Portnoy’s Complaint). There was some recent Broadway musical involving this sort of humor–that Jewish women are well aware that they come off as more difficult/less attractive to Jewish men than shishkas.

    In fact, black women and Jewish women have that in common—their men openly talk about how much harder it is to deal with them than blond gentile women. Chris Rock talked about this briefly in one of his star-making stand-ups—how a white woman just did what you said, didn’t contradict you, smiled at you, called you daddy, etc.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles' wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.
  245. @Boomstick
    "One man flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye."

    Yeah, no. Have you ever tried to break a bottle? They're stout. They have to be to withstand handling by stock boys in stores. They only break over someone's head in movies, where the stunt men use special candy prop glass. In real life they're going to go "clunk" if they hit someone in the head. I don't think you can throw a bottle fast enough to break it over a skull.

    You can, but it will knock the target out 9/10. Also, it will not shatter, but break in two with a couple of small triangular bits breaking away. Any time a bottle is broken on someone’s head they are out cold, generally bleeding heavily. IMO, if a bottle was thrown at “Jackie” with enough force to break, she would be knocked unconscious, with a bad cut bleeding profusely, and a broken cheek bone or eye socket. Source: working in pubs for over a decade.

  246. @whorefinder

    I haven’t seen it in decades, but I recall an episode of “Rhoda” involving Brenda taking on a beautiful blonde Shiksa roommate, which brings up all sorts of anxieties, insecurities, and neuroses in Rhoda’s mind…
     
    Bingo. the insecurity of Jewish women about shishkas is almost doubled when she's a blond. When you think about movies/TV shows employing blond bombshells, think about the situation having what might be called a "Jewish sensibility." It's been going on for a very long time in American pop culture ("Say goodnight, Gracie").

    It doesn't help Jewish women's insecurity when their men openly extoll shishkas as superior, which often happens in pop culture, mostly as a joke-but-its-really-true trope (Portnoy's Complaint). There was some recent Broadway musical involving this sort of humor--that Jewish women are well aware that they come off as more difficult/less attractive to Jewish men than shishkas.

    In fact, black women and Jewish women have that in common---their men openly talk about how much harder it is to deal with them than blond gentile women. Chris Rock talked about this briefly in one of his star-making stand-ups---how a white woman just did what you said, didn't contradict you, smiled at you, called you daddy, etc.

    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles’ wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.

    • Replies: @whorefinder

    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles’ wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.
     
    Steve Sailer's First Law of Female Journalism comes to mind.

    Of course, in most cultures historically, women have desired fairer skin, but usually not to attract men; it was an intra-female status symbol. Having fairer skin than your rivals meant you didn't spend time in the sun, which meant your family was wealthy enough to employ enough servants and slaves and workers that you could spend your days indoors/sleeping off your hangover/partying all night.

    It wasn't until the industrial revolution that it became fashionable for women to tan; as the industrial revolution allowed even working women to work indoors, a woman having a tan meant you had enough money not to work and could spend your days on the beach. Again, this was all intra-female status whoring; male desire on this issue was secondary.

    The reversal reminds me how once, having someone present you with ready-made coffee was a sign of wealth, but now, since anyone can, the real luxury is grinding your own beans and hand-selecting them.

    The black/Jewish fiending for blondness, however, is totally male-driven, which is a different animal from the female desire for fair skin.

    Jewish and black women should be paying attention more the real complaints of their men: that non-black, non-Jewish women, blond or no, are less mannish, more coquettish, and more polite in behavior. Of course, that would require black/Jewish women to admit to behavioral faults and social faux pauxs and to change their behavior to suit men, things that no female hamster these days would ever allow a woman to do.
  247. Geez…

    All this way and nobody got the difference between safety glass (a sheet of plastic sandwiched between two pieces of plain ol’ glass – your windshield), tempered glass (glass that has gone through a heat process to improve strength, this breaks into pebbles – your car door windows), and plain ol’ glass.

    A young lady would not be comfortable on her back for three hours on pieces of any of the three types,
    raped or not.

    I believe the table was plain glass or tempered glass. Safety glass would be very unusual in a table top application. But, like someone way up thread said, falling through that top with some guy on top of her would have hurt like a mother when hitting the frame/legs/base. Broken rib or two? Another detail left out? Or maybe the whole thing was…

  248. @Art Deco
    there is a significant rape problem on college campuses

    There is a significant rape problem in the society at large, if, by significant, you mean it happens often enough to be familiar even to small-town municipal police.

    The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there are about 260,000 'rapes or sexual assaults' or attempts toward that end (according to their data collection method) in a given year in this country. They do not decompose this statistic in their recent data reports, but from mining reports from a generation ago, one can posit that perhaps 30% of this population of offenses consist of rapes. So, you have about 80,000 rapes in a year. I've seen contentions in print that about 12% of criminal perpetrators are drawn from bourgeois strata, and that roughly 55% of all perpetrators are of collegiate age (18-25). Let's posit there is not much co-variance between the severity of a crime, the social status of the perpetrator, and the age range of the perpetrator. Let us posit further that 90% of the sexual assaults by collegians occur during the school year. So, you have 10,000 rapes by bourgeois, 5,500 by bourgeois of college age, and 5,000 by bourgeios on campus.

    Now, 770,000 women matriculate at baccalaureate-granting institutions in a typical year. If you have 5,000 rapes for every 770,000 matriculants, that suggests your chances of being raped during your tour in higher education would be about 0.65%. That's a rough back-of-the-envelope stab at assessing the dimensions of the problem.

    I’m not invested enough to moderate the discussion. You can check her website if you are interested. I believe the discrepancy is down to method. My guess is that the stats you quote are based on reports to the police while hers are based on men reporting using force or having sex with a girl who was intoxicated enough to be incapacitated.

  249. @Hare Krishna
    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles' wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.

    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles’ wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.

    Steve Sailer’s First Law of Female Journalism comes to mind.

    Of course, in most cultures historically, women have desired fairer skin, but usually not to attract men; it was an intra-female status symbol. Having fairer skin than your rivals meant you didn’t spend time in the sun, which meant your family was wealthy enough to employ enough servants and slaves and workers that you could spend your days indoors/sleeping off your hangover/partying all night.

    It wasn’t until the industrial revolution that it became fashionable for women to tan; as the industrial revolution allowed even working women to work indoors, a woman having a tan meant you had enough money not to work and could spend your days on the beach. Again, this was all intra-female status whoring; male desire on this issue was secondary.

    The reversal reminds me how once, having someone present you with ready-made coffee was a sign of wealth, but now, since anyone can, the real luxury is grinding your own beans and hand-selecting them.

    The black/Jewish fiending for blondness, however, is totally male-driven, which is a different animal from the female desire for fair skin.

    Jewish and black women should be paying attention more the real complaints of their men: that non-black, non-Jewish women, blond or no, are less mannish, more coquettish, and more polite in behavior. Of course, that would require black/Jewish women to admit to behavioral faults and social faux pauxs and to change their behavior to suit men, things that no female hamster these days would ever allow a woman to do.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    All the Iranian ladies who cut my hair at Fantastic Sam's have dyed their hair blondes.
    , @Goodwin5
    Italians also famously have an interest in blondes. As do the Japanese. And Latin Americans.

    It's only a matter of time before China's genetic scientists allow blondism to become popular around the world.

  250. @whorefinder

    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles’ wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.
     
    Steve Sailer's First Law of Female Journalism comes to mind.

    Of course, in most cultures historically, women have desired fairer skin, but usually not to attract men; it was an intra-female status symbol. Having fairer skin than your rivals meant you didn't spend time in the sun, which meant your family was wealthy enough to employ enough servants and slaves and workers that you could spend your days indoors/sleeping off your hangover/partying all night.

    It wasn't until the industrial revolution that it became fashionable for women to tan; as the industrial revolution allowed even working women to work indoors, a woman having a tan meant you had enough money not to work and could spend your days on the beach. Again, this was all intra-female status whoring; male desire on this issue was secondary.

    The reversal reminds me how once, having someone present you with ready-made coffee was a sign of wealth, but now, since anyone can, the real luxury is grinding your own beans and hand-selecting them.

    The black/Jewish fiending for blondness, however, is totally male-driven, which is a different animal from the female desire for fair skin.

    Jewish and black women should be paying attention more the real complaints of their men: that non-black, non-Jewish women, blond or no, are less mannish, more coquettish, and more polite in behavior. Of course, that would require black/Jewish women to admit to behavioral faults and social faux pauxs and to change their behavior to suit men, things that no female hamster these days would ever allow a woman to do.

    All the Iranian ladies who cut my hair at Fantastic Sam’s have dyed their hair blondes.

  251. @whorefinder

    It was long de rigeur for young Jewish girls in Los Angeles’ wealthy and upper middle class Jewish neighborhoods, and in the monied suburbs of New York and New Jersey, to get nose jobs and to dye their hair blonde, as Jewish men were blonde crazy. It may still be.

    The same phenomenon also occurred in the wealthy suburbs of Mexico City, and probably still goes on.
     
    Steve Sailer's First Law of Female Journalism comes to mind.

    Of course, in most cultures historically, women have desired fairer skin, but usually not to attract men; it was an intra-female status symbol. Having fairer skin than your rivals meant you didn't spend time in the sun, which meant your family was wealthy enough to employ enough servants and slaves and workers that you could spend your days indoors/sleeping off your hangover/partying all night.

    It wasn't until the industrial revolution that it became fashionable for women to tan; as the industrial revolution allowed even working women to work indoors, a woman having a tan meant you had enough money not to work and could spend your days on the beach. Again, this was all intra-female status whoring; male desire on this issue was secondary.

    The reversal reminds me how once, having someone present you with ready-made coffee was a sign of wealth, but now, since anyone can, the real luxury is grinding your own beans and hand-selecting them.

    The black/Jewish fiending for blondness, however, is totally male-driven, which is a different animal from the female desire for fair skin.

    Jewish and black women should be paying attention more the real complaints of their men: that non-black, non-Jewish women, blond or no, are less mannish, more coquettish, and more polite in behavior. Of course, that would require black/Jewish women to admit to behavioral faults and social faux pauxs and to change their behavior to suit men, things that no female hamster these days would ever allow a woman to do.

    Italians also famously have an interest in blondes. As do the Japanese. And Latin Americans.

    It’s only a matter of time before China’s genetic scientists allow blondism to become popular around the world.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @ Steve

    Yes, but is there really a stereotype about Italian and Iranian men complaining about their own women in public and in comparison to blond bombshells?

    Black and Jewish writers/comedians/philosophers share this trope, but I've never heard an Italian or Iranian start degrading/insulting his own women and claiming that Northern European women/blonds are better, nicer, etc.. Perhaps it exists, but I've never heard of it. It's such a trope that black women have entire movies about blonds stealing their man and how to deal with it (that Beyonce movie; 1/4 of the women in Waiting to Exhale). And Jewish men....when Jon Stewart is still referencing Portnoy's Complaint these days, it's still here.

    As for the Iranian women, they are in LA; catching a powerful man --or just fitting into such a culture--might require looking like what the local power brokers want.

    Italian men---eh, the only thing I've heard about them is that they aggressive towards ALL good-looking women, not merely blonds. Since a blond is rarer to Italians than in norway, she might stand out.

    But circling around---the main complaint blacks/Jews make in jokes about their women is the difficulty in dealing with them and their unfeminine/pushy behavior that is unattractive--and how gentile white women are much better behaved. It's a behavior thing, not a looks thing per se. It's similar to how nerdy white men are drawn to asian women over white women---because said asian women are stereotyped as accepting the nerdy man, being more submissive to him, and not trying to change him/push him around.
  252. “Italians also famously have an interest in blondes. As do the Japanese. And Latin Americans.”

    A blonde haired Northern European woman who looks similar to Taylor Swift would get a lot of catcalls from dark haired Wog looking Italian men if she traveled to Italy.

  253. A commenter over at Taki’s suggests a likely allusion Sabrina Rubin Erdely was making with her broken glass image system:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

    • Replies: @syonredux

    A commenter over at Taki’s suggests a likely allusion Sabrina Rubin Erdely was making with her broken glass image system:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
     
    Well, that pretty goes without saying.Interesting thing about Kristallnacht. Terrible as it was, it also conveyed a sense of the limits of anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany:

    The reaction of non-Jewish Germans to Kristallnacht was varied. Many spectators gathered on the scenes, most of them in silence. The local fire departments confined themselves to prevent the flames spreading to neighbouring buildings. In Berlin, police Lieutenant Otto Bellgardt barred SA troopers from setting the New Synagogue on fire, earning his superior officer a verbal reprimand from the commissioner.[40] The British historian Martin Gilbert believes that "many non-Jews resented the round up",[41] his opinion being supported by German witness Dr. Arthur Flehinger who recalls seeing "people crying while watching from behind their curtains".[42] The extent of the damage was so great that many Germans are said to have expressed their disapproval of it, and to have described it as senseless.[43]

    In an article released for publication on the evening of 11 November, Goebbels ascribed the events of Kristallnacht to the "healthy instincts" of the German people. He went on to explain: "The German people are anti-Semitic. It has no desire to have its rights restricted or to be provoked in the future by parasites of the Jewish race."[44] Less than 24 hours after the Kristallnacht Adolf Hitler made a one hour long speech in front of a group of journalists where he managed to completely ignore the recent events on everyone's mind. According to Eugene Davidson the reason for this was that Hitler wished to avoid being directly connected to an event that he was aware that many of those present condemned, regardless of Goebbels's unconvincing explanation that Kristallnacht was caused by popular wrath.[45]

    In 1938, just after Kristallnacht, the psychologist Muller-Claudius interviewed 41 randomly selected Nazi Party members on their attitudes towards racial persecution. Of the interviewed party-members 63% percent expressed extreme indignation against it, while only 5% expressed approval of racial persecution, the rest being noncommittal. A study conducted in 1933 had then shown that 33% of Nazi Party members held no racial prejudice while 13% supported persecution; Sarah Ann Gordon sees two possible reasons for this difference: By 1938 large numbers of Germans had joined the Nazi Party for pragmatic reasons rather than ideology thus diluting the percentage of rabid antisemites, and the Kristallnacht could have caused party members to reject anti-Semitism that had been acceptable to them in abstract terms but which they could not support when they saw it concretely enacted.[46] During the Kristallnacht several Gauleiter and deputy Gauleiters had refused orders to enact the Kristallnacht, and many leaders of the SA and of the Hitler Youth also openly refused party orders, while expressing disgust.[47] Many Nazis actually helped Jews during the Kristallnacht.[47]

    As it was aware that the German public did not support the Kristallnacht, the propaganda ministry directed the German press to portray opponents of racial persecution as disloyal.[48] The press was also under orders to downplay the Kristallnacht, describing general events at local level only, with prohibition against depictions of individual events.[49] In 1939 this was extended to a prohibition on reporting any anti-Jewish measures.[50]

    The vast majority of the German public disapproved of the Kristallnacht as for example evidenced by the torrent of reports attesting to this by diplomats in Germany.[51]

    The US ambassador to Germany reported:

    In view of this being a totalitarian state a surprising characteristic of the situation here is the intensity and scope among German citizens of condemnation of the recent happenings against Jews.[52]

    To the consternation of the Nazis the Kristallnacht affected public opinion counter to their desires, the peak of opposition against the Nazi racial policies was reached just then, when according to almost all accounts the vast majority of Germans rejected the violence perpetrated against the Jews.[53] Verbal complaints grew rapidly in numbers, and for example the Duesseldorf branch of the Gestapo reported a sharp decline in anti-semitic attitudes among the population.[54]

    There are many indications of Protestant and Catholic disapproval of racial persecution, for example the Catholic church had already distributed Pastoral letters critical of Nazi racial ideology, and the Nazi regime expected to encounter organised resistance from the powerful Catholic church following Kristallnacht.[55] The Catholic leadership however, just as the various Protestant churches, refrained from responding with organised action to Kristallnacht, thereby wasting a golden opportunity considering the public mood.[55] While individual Catholics and Protestants took action, the churches as a whole chose silence publicly.[55

     

  254. @Reg Cæsar

    Fah! I’ll match a legion of beauteous brunettes against an army of blondes any day!

     

    I'm more even-handed-- black, brown, blond, red, as long as it's natural and gracing a pretty face, it's fine with me. (Though blonds will give you cuter kids.)

    From your statement, I'd guess that you, like me, looked right past the overrated Loni Anderson to the silent, smokin' hot Jan Smithers.

    Oh, did she look good at 17!

    I was always a big fan of Jan Smithers!

    I felt the same way about Mila Kunis’ teenaged stick figure as the sexy one, while the seriously dressed- down Laura Prepon floated my boat!

    https://www.google.com/search?q=laura+prepon+hot+photos&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&imgil=RnASJma6jtq9NM%253A%253BwxvuzLnpahL_LM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%252

  255. “All the Iranian ladies who cut my hair at Fantastic Sam’s have dyed their hair blondes.”

    A lot of Armenian women in California also like to dye their hair blonde, even though the majority of Armenian females were not even naturally blonde as children let alone naturally blonde as adults.

    The majority of Armenians are brunettes even in childhood.
    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=372&q=ARMENIAN+CHILDREN&oq=ARMENIAN+CHILDREN&gs_l=img.12..0l2j0i24l8.4101.6918.0.8461.17.17.0.0.0.0.121.1304.13j4.17.0.chm_qwpr…0…1.1.58.img..0.17.1301.OTFqpFpKUlo#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=yC-RhEcbePVnRM%253A%3B2io776LyV6AVlM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Farmenianchild.ucoz.com%252F__-1-.bmp%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Farmenianchild.ucoz.com%252F%3B307%3B296

  256. @Steve Sailer
    A commenter over at Taki's suggests a likely allusion Sabrina Rubin Erdely was making with her broken glass image system:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

    A commenter over at Taki’s suggests a likely allusion Sabrina Rubin Erdely was making with her broken glass image system:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

    Well, that pretty goes without saying.Interesting thing about Kristallnacht. Terrible as it was, it also conveyed a sense of the limits of anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany:

    The reaction of non-Jewish Germans to Kristallnacht was varied. Many spectators gathered on the scenes, most of them in silence. The local fire departments confined themselves to prevent the flames spreading to neighbouring buildings. In Berlin, police Lieutenant Otto Bellgardt barred SA troopers from setting the New Synagogue on fire, earning his superior officer a verbal reprimand from the commissioner.[40] The British historian Martin Gilbert believes that “many non-Jews resented the round up”,[41] his opinion being supported by German witness Dr. Arthur Flehinger who recalls seeing “people crying while watching from behind their curtains”.[42] The extent of the damage was so great that many Germans are said to have expressed their disapproval of it, and to have described it as senseless.[43]

    In an article released for publication on the evening of 11 November, Goebbels ascribed the events of Kristallnacht to the “healthy instincts” of the German people. He went on to explain: “The German people are anti-Semitic. It has no desire to have its rights restricted or to be provoked in the future by parasites of the Jewish race.”[44] Less than 24 hours after the Kristallnacht Adolf Hitler made a one hour long speech in front of a group of journalists where he managed to completely ignore the recent events on everyone’s mind. According to Eugene Davidson the reason for this was that Hitler wished to avoid being directly connected to an event that he was aware that many of those present condemned, regardless of Goebbels’s unconvincing explanation that Kristallnacht was caused by popular wrath.[45]

    In 1938, just after Kristallnacht, the psychologist Muller-Claudius interviewed 41 randomly selected Nazi Party members on their attitudes towards racial persecution. Of the interviewed party-members 63% percent expressed extreme indignation against it, while only 5% expressed approval of racial persecution, the rest being noncommittal. A study conducted in 1933 had then shown that 33% of Nazi Party members held no racial prejudice while 13% supported persecution; Sarah Ann Gordon sees two possible reasons for this difference: By 1938 large numbers of Germans had joined the Nazi Party for pragmatic reasons rather than ideology thus diluting the percentage of rabid antisemites, and the Kristallnacht could have caused party members to reject anti-Semitism that had been acceptable to them in abstract terms but which they could not support when they saw it concretely enacted.[46] During the Kristallnacht several Gauleiter and deputy Gauleiters had refused orders to enact the Kristallnacht, and many leaders of the SA and of the Hitler Youth also openly refused party orders, while expressing disgust.[47] Many Nazis actually helped Jews during the Kristallnacht.[47]

    As it was aware that the German public did not support the Kristallnacht, the propaganda ministry directed the German press to portray opponents of racial persecution as disloyal.[48] The press was also under orders to downplay the Kristallnacht, describing general events at local level only, with prohibition against depictions of individual events.[49] In 1939 this was extended to a prohibition on reporting any anti-Jewish measures.[50]

    The vast majority of the German public disapproved of the Kristallnacht as for example evidenced by the torrent of reports attesting to this by diplomats in Germany.[51]

    The US ambassador to Germany reported:

    In view of this being a totalitarian state a surprising characteristic of the situation here is the intensity and scope among German citizens of condemnation of the recent happenings against Jews.[52]

    To the consternation of the Nazis the Kristallnacht affected public opinion counter to their desires, the peak of opposition against the Nazi racial policies was reached just then, when according to almost all accounts the vast majority of Germans rejected the violence perpetrated against the Jews.[53] Verbal complaints grew rapidly in numbers, and for example the Duesseldorf branch of the Gestapo reported a sharp decline in anti-semitic attitudes among the population.[54]

    There are many indications of Protestant and Catholic disapproval of racial persecution, for example the Catholic church had already distributed Pastoral letters critical of Nazi racial ideology, and the Nazi regime expected to encounter organised resistance from the powerful Catholic church following Kristallnacht.[55] The Catholic leadership however, just as the various Protestant churches, refrained from responding with organised action to Kristallnacht, thereby wasting a golden opportunity considering the public mood.[55] While individual Catholics and Protestants took action, the churches as a whole chose silence publicly.[55

  257. @Goodwin5
    Italians also famously have an interest in blondes. As do the Japanese. And Latin Americans.

    It's only a matter of time before China's genetic scientists allow blondism to become popular around the world.

    @ Steve

    Yes, but is there really a stereotype about Italian and Iranian men complaining about their own women in public and in comparison to blond bombshells?

    Black and Jewish writers/comedians/philosophers share this trope, but I’ve never heard an Italian or Iranian start degrading/insulting his own women and claiming that Northern European women/blonds are better, nicer, etc.. Perhaps it exists, but I’ve never heard of it. It’s such a trope that black women have entire movies about blonds stealing their man and how to deal with it (that Beyonce movie; 1/4 of the women in Waiting to Exhale). And Jewish men….when Jon Stewart is still referencing Portnoy’s Complaint these days, it’s still here.

    As for the Iranian women, they are in LA; catching a powerful man –or just fitting into such a culture–might require looking like what the local power brokers want.

    Italian men—eh, the only thing I’ve heard about them is that they aggressive towards ALL good-looking women, not merely blonds. Since a blond is rarer to Italians than in norway, she might stand out.

    But circling around—the main complaint blacks/Jews make in jokes about their women is the difficulty in dealing with them and their unfeminine/pushy behavior that is unattractive–and how gentile white women are much better behaved. It’s a behavior thing, not a looks thing per se. It’s similar to how nerdy white men are drawn to asian women over white women—because said asian women are stereotyped as accepting the nerdy man, being more submissive to him, and not trying to change him/push him around.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy's sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented - and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.
  258. OK, so you’ve had a good, collective whine for about, what, three weeks now?

    Your heads happily on each other’s shoulders, leaving wet, runny stains of tears. Lots of Leo Buscaglia, “I’m OK, you’re OK shit.” One large 6-5 295 lb. straw man built so that you can each collectively take a swipe at it with your Lee press- nails to distract yourselves from the mundane/ pathetic nature of your everyday lives. And other than I few minor interjections I didn’t interfere much, because, well, contrary to popular belief The Truthster has a warm heart, and you needed the circle jerk. And besides, I appreciate you guys perfectly symbiotic relationship with the press; they tell you what to think, you think it!

    But I just heard a loud chime, so tell me; are we ready to get back to the real world?

    “For example, FBI clearance and arrest tabulations now indicate black youths under age 18 account for just 2% of the nation’s homicides.”

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/24/1347121/-Study-Today-s-young-African-Americans-display-the-lowest-rates-of-crime-of-any-generation#

    • Replies: @syonredux

    But I just heard a loud chime, so tell me; are we ready to get back to the real world?

    “For example, FBI clearance and arrest tabulations now indicate black youths under age 18 account for just 2% of the nation’s homicides.”
     
    On the other hand:

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000. Additional information contained in the FBI
    SHR data on black homicide includes the following.
    Gender
    Of the 6,309 black homicide victims, 5,452 (86 percent) were male, and 854 (14 percent) were female. The homicide
    rate for black male victims was 31.67 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for male homicide victims was 7.13
    per 100,000. For white male homicide victims it was 3.85 per 100,000. The homicide rate for female black victims was
    4.54 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for female homicide victims was 1.81 per 100,000. For white female
    homicide victims it was 1.45 per 100,000.

    Four hundred eighty-seven black homicide victims (8 percent) were less than 18 years old and 100 black homicide victims
    (2 percent) were 65 years of age or older. The average age was 30 years old.


    In 2011, the national black homicide victimization rate was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, Nebraska ranked first as the
    state with the highest black homicide victimization rate. Its rate of 34.43 per 100,000 was nearly double the national
    average for black homicide victims. The remaining states that comprise the top 10 are listed in the chart following.
    Additional information for each of these 10 states can be found in Appendix One, including: age and gender of victims;
    most common weapons used; relationship of victim to offender; and, the circumstances of the murders. According to the
    SHR data, 23 states had a black homicide victimization rate higher than the national per capita rate of 17.51 per 100,000.
    For an alphabetical listing of all states that submitted data to the FBI, please see Appendix Two.


    Blacks in the United States are disproportionately affected by homicide. For the year 2011, blacks represented 13 percent
    of the nation’s population, yet accounted for 50 percent of all homicide victims.3

     

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf
  259. @Steve Sailer
    Fraternities need to throw out the real bad guys.

    A university serious about preventing sexual assault would teach incoming students the common red flags that identify serial predators, with information on how to isolate, avoid, and report them. This could certainly include extra annual training for all frat officers on when and how to expel the lowlifes from their ranks (as well as from their parties). Just as “Friends don’t let friends drive drunk” is a more effective slogan than “Don’t drink and drive“, productive training should focus on getting sane bystanders to intervene to prevent bad behavior on the part of those who lack the moral compass to restrain themselves.

    Most feminist-scripted, emotion-drenched freshman “education” programs instead screech at students, “You’d better not even THINK about raping anyone!“, when the real message they need to hear is “If you see these warning signs, take action“. Compared to feminist histrionics, the latter message is also far more likely to resonate with macho fraternity jocks, by appealing to the heroic instinct- “Don’t just be a meek bystander, step in and stop the bad guy!“.

  260. @John Cunningham
    I have not been able to track it down just now, but a blog comment claimed that the UVA frat claimed that no member in 2012 was ever employed at the aquatic center, where the victim claimed to be a coworker with the frat member who set her up. also, the frat noted that it conducts rush in the spring of the academic year, not the fall, when Jackie said that rape by pledges occurred. they also noted that they are required to register all frat parties with the college admin, and that none was held on sept, 28.
    I think there are way too many signs of hoaxing to credit any of her story.

    I saw something like this too, I believe in the comments of the original RS article. It could be hearsay, but these are the facts which any good journalist should at least double check before publishing such an article.

  261. @Truth
    OK, so you've had a good, collective whine for about, what, three weeks now?

    Your heads happily on each other's shoulders, leaving wet, runny stains of tears. Lots of Leo Buscaglia, "I'm OK, you're OK shit." One large 6-5 295 lb. straw man built so that you can each collectively take a swipe at it with your Lee press- nails to distract yourselves from the mundane/ pathetic nature of your everyday lives. And other than I few minor interjections I didn't interfere much, because, well, contrary to popular belief The Truthster has a warm heart, and you needed the circle jerk. And besides, I appreciate you guys perfectly symbiotic relationship with the press; they tell you what to think, you think it!

    But I just heard a loud chime, so tell me; are we ready to get back to the real world?

    "For example, FBI clearance and arrest tabulations now indicate black youths under age 18 account for just 2% of the nation’s homicides."

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/24/1347121/-Study-Today-s-young-African-Americans-display-the-lowest-rates-of-crime-of-any-generation#

    But I just heard a loud chime, so tell me; are we ready to get back to the real world?

    “For example, FBI clearance and arrest tabulations now indicate black youths under age 18 account for just 2% of the nation’s homicides.”

    On the other hand:

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000. Additional information contained in the FBI
    SHR data on black homicide includes the following.
    Gender
    Of the 6,309 black homicide victims, 5,452 (86 percent) were male, and 854 (14 percent) were female. The homicide
    rate for black male victims was 31.67 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for male homicide victims was 7.13
    per 100,000. For white male homicide victims it was 3.85 per 100,000. The homicide rate for female black victims was
    4.54 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for female homicide victims was 1.81 per 100,000. For white female
    homicide victims it was 1.45 per 100,000.

    Four hundred eighty-seven black homicide victims (8 percent) were less than 18 years old and 100 black homicide victims
    (2 percent) were 65 years of age or older. The average age was 30 years old.

    In 2011, the national black homicide victimization rate was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, Nebraska ranked first as the
    state with the highest black homicide victimization rate. Its rate of 34.43 per 100,000 was nearly double the national
    average for black homicide victims. The remaining states that comprise the top 10 are listed in the chart following.
    Additional information for each of these 10 states can be found in Appendix One, including: age and gender of victims;
    most common weapons used; relationship of victim to offender; and, the circumstances of the murders. According to the
    SHR data, 23 states had a black homicide victimization rate higher than the national per capita rate of 17.51 per 100,000.
    For an alphabetical listing of all states that submitted data to the FBI, please see Appendix Two.

    Blacks in the United States are disproportionately affected by homicide. For the year 2011, blacks represented 13 percent
    of the nation’s population, yet accounted for 50 percent of all homicide victims.3

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf

    • Replies: @Hard Line Realist
    He probably meant that only 2% were the perps.
  262. @syonredux

    But I just heard a loud chime, so tell me; are we ready to get back to the real world?

    “For example, FBI clearance and arrest tabulations now indicate black youths under age 18 account for just 2% of the nation’s homicides.”
     
    On the other hand:

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000. Additional information contained in the FBI
    SHR data on black homicide includes the following.
    Gender
    Of the 6,309 black homicide victims, 5,452 (86 percent) were male, and 854 (14 percent) were female. The homicide
    rate for black male victims was 31.67 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for male homicide victims was 7.13
    per 100,000. For white male homicide victims it was 3.85 per 100,000. The homicide rate for female black victims was
    4.54 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for female homicide victims was 1.81 per 100,000. For white female
    homicide victims it was 1.45 per 100,000.

    Four hundred eighty-seven black homicide victims (8 percent) were less than 18 years old and 100 black homicide victims
    (2 percent) were 65 years of age or older. The average age was 30 years old.


    In 2011, the national black homicide victimization rate was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, Nebraska ranked first as the
    state with the highest black homicide victimization rate. Its rate of 34.43 per 100,000 was nearly double the national
    average for black homicide victims. The remaining states that comprise the top 10 are listed in the chart following.
    Additional information for each of these 10 states can be found in Appendix One, including: age and gender of victims;
    most common weapons used; relationship of victim to offender; and, the circumstances of the murders. According to the
    SHR data, 23 states had a black homicide victimization rate higher than the national per capita rate of 17.51 per 100,000.
    For an alphabetical listing of all states that submitted data to the FBI, please see Appendix Two.


    Blacks in the United States are disproportionately affected by homicide. For the year 2011, blacks represented 13 percent
    of the nation’s population, yet accounted for 50 percent of all homicide victims.3

     

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf

    He probably meant that only 2% were the perps.

  263. @whorefinder
    @ Steve

    Yes, but is there really a stereotype about Italian and Iranian men complaining about their own women in public and in comparison to blond bombshells?

    Black and Jewish writers/comedians/philosophers share this trope, but I've never heard an Italian or Iranian start degrading/insulting his own women and claiming that Northern European women/blonds are better, nicer, etc.. Perhaps it exists, but I've never heard of it. It's such a trope that black women have entire movies about blonds stealing their man and how to deal with it (that Beyonce movie; 1/4 of the women in Waiting to Exhale). And Jewish men....when Jon Stewart is still referencing Portnoy's Complaint these days, it's still here.

    As for the Iranian women, they are in LA; catching a powerful man --or just fitting into such a culture--might require looking like what the local power brokers want.

    Italian men---eh, the only thing I've heard about them is that they aggressive towards ALL good-looking women, not merely blonds. Since a blond is rarer to Italians than in norway, she might stand out.

    But circling around---the main complaint blacks/Jews make in jokes about their women is the difficulty in dealing with them and their unfeminine/pushy behavior that is unattractive--and how gentile white women are much better behaved. It's a behavior thing, not a looks thing per se. It's similar to how nerdy white men are drawn to asian women over white women---because said asian women are stereotyped as accepting the nerdy man, being more submissive to him, and not trying to change him/push him around.

    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy’s sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented – and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "As for Iranian blonde obsession"

    It's a Beverly Hills thing. If you move to Beverly Hills or its low class fringes, you want to look Beverly Hills.

    Also dyeing your hair blonde is a good way to deal with the first streaks of grey. Southern California is full of ladies of a certain age who might have been brunette in college but are now blonde.

    , @whorefinder
    Again, however: is there a cultural trope within Italians, Iranians, or Latin Americans complain that their women are difficult/mannish and that blonds are nicer, easier, more feminine?

    Because that's what I'm harping on: that blacks and Jews constantly insult their women in art and entertainment as being less worthy than blonds based on behavior. Again, their attraction to blonds is about behavior more than looks on that front, something that Jewish and black women refuse to confront head-on.

    The other groups mentioned might claim the physicality of blonds alone attracts them, but I don't think Italians, Iranians, or Latins are claiming that blond are somehow more feminine than their own women. If so, I'm wrong, but I know of only two groups that degrades their own women openly in favor of gentile white women, especially blonds: blacks and jews.
    , @Anonymous
    That goes back to Roman times. Here's a good post on hair dying in ancient Rome:

    http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2011/11/hair-dye-and-wigs-in-ancient-rome.html

    In her reference book Encyclopedia of Hair, Victoria Sherrow explains that blonde hair in Rome was linked with prostitution at first, and obtained from slaves:

    In ancient Rome, blond hair was initially considered to be a symbol of a prostitute, and these women were required to bleach their hair blond or wear blond wigs. After slave girls were acquired from Scandinavia and Germany, noblewomen began to wear more wigs made from their hair, and the stigma attached to blond hair diminished. Women also began dying their hair lighter shades using infusions made from saffron flowers.

    ...

    Popular anthropologist Desmond Morris describes in an amusing passage how blonde hair lost its prostitution stigma, how and why it gained in popularity, and what it represented (hint: not high morals):

    Roman prostitutes were carefully organized. They were licensed, taxed, and actually required by law to wear blonde hair. The third wife of the Emperor Claudius, the wild nymphomaniac Messalina, was so excited by the idea of sudden, brutal sex with strangers that she would sneak out at night clad in a whore's wig and prowl the city. So violent was her lovemaking that it is rumoured she frequently dislodged her blonde hairpiece, returning to the royal precincts in all too recognizable condition.

    Other Roman ladies of fashion were soon imitating her, and the lawmakers were impotent to stem the trend. Their blonde-wig-whoring law was ruined, but the element of wickedness and abandon by now associated with blondness was to survive down the centuries, repeatedly re-surfacing as an opposing strand in contrast to the image of fair-haired virginal innocence.

    ...


    Prior to that (and probably long after as well), Romans were much more likely to use dark colored dyes, often to hide gray hair and restore their natural color. Victoria Sherrow explains again:

    Hair dyes were popular in ancient Rome, and historians have found more than 100 different recipes that the Romans used for bleaching or dying hair. Early Romans preferred dark hair, and at one time, blond hair was the mark of a prostitute. Light hair became fashionable after Greek culture reached Italy and the Roman legionnaires began bringing back fair-haired slaves from Gaul.

    ...

    Indeed, according to archaeologist Elizabeth Bartman, Romans also imported black hair from India, while their use of blonde hair had political significance. Unlike the Indian hair, which was acquired through trade, Germanic hair became a symbol of Rome's subjugation of barbarians
     
    , @Scott
    Lilli Gruber's not blonde, she's ginger (probably fake) and not all that attractive. The only reason Italian men go for blondes (mostly North European and American tourists) is because they're easy, but they actually find brunette women more attractive. Same goes for most other men too.

    http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/09/mens-hair-and-eye-color-preferences.html

    As for dyed blonde hair being common in Italy, I doubt it's more common than in the UK.

    http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/most-british-blondes-are-fake.html
  264. @Hare Krishna
    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy's sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented - and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.

    “As for Iranian blonde obsession”

    It’s a Beverly Hills thing. If you move to Beverly Hills or its low class fringes, you want to look Beverly Hills.

    Also dyeing your hair blonde is a good way to deal with the first streaks of grey. Southern California is full of ladies of a certain age who might have been brunette in college but are now blonde.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    "It’s a Beverly Hills thing. If you move to Beverly Hills or its low class fringes, you want to look Beverly Hills."

    So Iranians are doing the same exact thing that the Jewish residents of those areas have done for 60 plus years? (And yes I know some Persian-Americans are Jewish)
  265. @Steve Sailer
    "As for Iranian blonde obsession"

    It's a Beverly Hills thing. If you move to Beverly Hills or its low class fringes, you want to look Beverly Hills.

    Also dyeing your hair blonde is a good way to deal with the first streaks of grey. Southern California is full of ladies of a certain age who might have been brunette in college but are now blonde.

    “It’s a Beverly Hills thing. If you move to Beverly Hills or its low class fringes, you want to look Beverly Hills.”

    So Iranians are doing the same exact thing that the Jewish residents of those areas have done for 60 plus years? (And yes I know some Persian-Americans are Jewish)

  266. “There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy’s sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.”

    I 100% agree with you.

    On The Sopranos for example, you never see any blond haired men but you do see some blonde haired women like Adriana and Carmela. Is it because Italian women are more likely than Italian men to carry the gene for blond hair ? Nope, it is because Italian brunette women love the blonde bottle.

  267. @Hare Krishna
    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy's sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented - and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.

    Again, however: is there a cultural trope within Italians, Iranians, or Latin Americans complain that their women are difficult/mannish and that blonds are nicer, easier, more feminine?

    Because that’s what I’m harping on: that blacks and Jews constantly insult their women in art and entertainment as being less worthy than blonds based on behavior. Again, their attraction to blonds is about behavior more than looks on that front, something that Jewish and black women refuse to confront head-on.

    The other groups mentioned might claim the physicality of blonds alone attracts them, but I don’t think Italians, Iranians, or Latins are claiming that blond are somehow more feminine than their own women. If so, I’m wrong, but I know of only two groups that degrades their own women openly in favor of gentile white women, especially blonds: blacks and jews.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    There was a cultural trope in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Latin America about blonde Northern Europeans (and North Americans) being much more sexually accessible than their own women.

    Martin Scorsese's films depict blondes as ideals or embodying excitement and thrills for the Italian-American or Jewish-American protagonists. (I wonder if The Wolf Of Wall Street got slammed because the powers that be thought in an era of rising antisemitism in Europe and among African-Americans that it could somehow fuel even more antisemitism)


    http://www.awardscircuit.com/2014/01/23/blonde-angels-devils-litter-scorseses-landscape/
  268. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hare Krishna
    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy's sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented - and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.

    That goes back to Roman times. Here’s a good post on hair dying in ancient Rome:

    http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2011/11/hair-dye-and-wigs-in-ancient-rome.html

    In her reference book Encyclopedia of Hair, Victoria Sherrow explains that blonde hair in Rome was linked with prostitution at first, and obtained from slaves:

    In ancient Rome, blond hair was initially considered to be a symbol of a prostitute, and these women were required to bleach their hair blond or wear blond wigs. After slave girls were acquired from Scandinavia and Germany, noblewomen began to wear more wigs made from their hair, and the stigma attached to blond hair diminished. Women also began dying their hair lighter shades using infusions made from saffron flowers.

    Popular anthropologist Desmond Morris describes in an amusing passage how blonde hair lost its prostitution stigma, how and why it gained in popularity, and what it represented (hint: not high morals):

    Roman prostitutes were carefully organized. They were licensed, taxed, and actually required by law to wear blonde hair. The third wife of the Emperor Claudius, the wild nymphomaniac Messalina, was so excited by the idea of sudden, brutal sex with strangers that she would sneak out at night clad in a whore’s wig and prowl the city. So violent was her lovemaking that it is rumoured she frequently dislodged her blonde hairpiece, returning to the royal precincts in all too recognizable condition.

    Other Roman ladies of fashion were soon imitating her, and the lawmakers were impotent to stem the trend. Their blonde-wig-whoring law was ruined, but the element of wickedness and abandon by now associated with blondness was to survive down the centuries, repeatedly re-surfacing as an opposing strand in contrast to the image of fair-haired virginal innocence.

    Prior to that (and probably long after as well), Romans were much more likely to use dark colored dyes, often to hide gray hair and restore their natural color. Victoria Sherrow explains again:

    Hair dyes were popular in ancient Rome, and historians have found more than 100 different recipes that the Romans used for bleaching or dying hair. Early Romans preferred dark hair, and at one time, blond hair was the mark of a prostitute. Light hair became fashionable after Greek culture reached Italy and the Roman legionnaires began bringing back fair-haired slaves from Gaul.

    Indeed, according to archaeologist Elizabeth Bartman, Romans also imported black hair from India, while their use of blonde hair had political significance. Unlike the Indian hair, which was acquired through trade, Germanic hair became a symbol of Rome’s subjugation of barbarians

  269. @whorefinder
    Again, however: is there a cultural trope within Italians, Iranians, or Latin Americans complain that their women are difficult/mannish and that blonds are nicer, easier, more feminine?

    Because that's what I'm harping on: that blacks and Jews constantly insult their women in art and entertainment as being less worthy than blonds based on behavior. Again, their attraction to blonds is about behavior more than looks on that front, something that Jewish and black women refuse to confront head-on.

    The other groups mentioned might claim the physicality of blonds alone attracts them, but I don't think Italians, Iranians, or Latins are claiming that blond are somehow more feminine than their own women. If so, I'm wrong, but I know of only two groups that degrades their own women openly in favor of gentile white women, especially blonds: blacks and jews.

    There was a cultural trope in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Latin America about blonde Northern Europeans (and North Americans) being much more sexually accessible than their own women.

    Martin Scorsese’s films depict blondes as ideals or embodying excitement and thrills for the Italian-American or Jewish-American protagonists. (I wonder if The Wolf Of Wall Street got slammed because the powers that be thought in an era of rising antisemitism in Europe and among African-Americans that it could somehow fuel even more antisemitism)

    http://www.awardscircuit.com/2014/01/23/blonde-angels-devils-litter-scorseses-landscape/

  270. @AnonymousForGoodReason
    Steve from Sex and the City

    July 10th, 2007 by Larry Smith
    By Sabrina Rubin Erdely

    Two years ago, not long after I returned to work post-maternity leave, I found myself at a Planned Parenthood gala in D.C. I felt like a tourist. Having just spent five months in my sweatpants, speaking in baby-rhyme with an infant hanging from my boob, I might as well have been an alien among these well-dressed people, with their wine glasses and their witty repartee. So as I sat down at my table, I was relieved to recognize the man seated next to me. Semitic, bespectacled, nebbishly handsome—I couldn’t place him, but a wash of warmth told me this was an old friend.

    “Do we know each other?” I asked.

    “Maybe,” he said, playing along. “You look familiar, too.” Asteve.jpg couple of rounds of Jewish Geography got us nowhere. He smiled an impish smile—so familiar!—and threw up his hands in defeat, but I persisted: “Are you with Planned Parenthood?” That’s when his face changed to an expression that said, Oh wow, she really doesn’t know. In that instant, my brain woke up. It was Steve from Sex and the City.

    My mind reeled. How couldn’t I have recognized David Eigenberg?
    http://www.smithmag.net/2007/07/10/steve-from-sex-in-the-city/

    So as I sat down at my table, I was relieved to recognize the man seated next to me. Semitic, bespectacled, nebbishly handsome—I couldn’t place him, but a wash of warmth told me this was an old friend.

    “Do we know each other?” I asked.

    “Maybe,” he said, playing along. “You look familiar, too.” Asteve.jpg couple of rounds of Jewish Geography got us nowhere. He smiled an impish smile—so familiar!—and threw up his hands in defeat, but I persisted: “Are you with Planned Parenthood?” That’s when his face changed to an expression that said, Oh wow, she really doesn’t know. In that instant, my brain woke up. It was Steve from Sex and the City.

    My mind reeled. How couldn’t I have recognized David Eigenberg?

    She seems to have over-estimated (imagined?) Eigenberg’s level of Jewishness:

    Eigenberg was born in Manhasset, New York[1] on Long Island and grew up in Naperville, Illinois. His mother, Beverly, owns pre-schools, and his father, Harry Eigenberg, is a retired certified public accountant.[2] He has a younger sister, Betsy, and an older sister, Helen.[3] Eigenberg was raised in his mother’s Episcopalian religion (Eigenberg’s father was Jewish).[4]

  271. @Hare Krishna
    There are many stereotypes about Italian attraction to blondes, in both Italy itself and the diaspora. For years, polls to determine who was Italy's sexiest woman were won overwhelmingly by newscaster Lilli Gruber, a petite blonde from Sudtirol whose appearance, as well as her name, were quite Germanic, rather than by big-busted brunette sexpots. Dyed blonde hair is common enough in those parts of Italy that have few blondes (most of the country, excepting the north). Italian TV is filled with dyed blondes.

    This is also true in Spain.

    Latin American blonde obsession is also well documented - and can be seen in the Spanish language media of the Americas. As for Iranian blonde obsession, there may be some documentation somewhere, but in Farsi.

    Lilli Gruber’s not blonde, she’s ginger (probably fake) and not all that attractive. The only reason Italian men go for blondes (mostly North European and American tourists) is because they’re easy, but they actually find brunette women more attractive. Same goes for most other men too.

    http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/09/mens-hair-and-eye-color-preferences.html

    As for dyed blonde hair being common in Italy, I doubt it’s more common than in the UK.

    http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/most-british-blondes-are-fake.html

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