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Sex Differences in Farm Animals vs. Pets
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I suspect the conventional wisdom of the current era downplaying biological and behavioral differences between men and women may have a little to do with a big shift in recent centuries in which animals humans most come in contact with, from farm animals to pets.

Not all, but many farm animals, such as cocks and hens, rams and ewes, and bulls and cows, feature extravagant sex differences. For animals we eat, having a lot of surplus males ready to battle it out with each other to be the reproductive king of the hill isn’t a problem: we just eat the poor losers.

In contrast, pets usually don’t have huge sex differences: I owned five parakeets in a row as a child and really have no clue whether they were boys or girls. The sex differences among dogs are not huge: People who are into dogs have opinions on what those differences are, but there are relatively few stereotypes among the general public. Tomcats fight more when prowling at night, but around the house their behavior isn’t all that different from the female of the species.

And the common practice of neutering pets reduces sex differences even more.

So, our worldviews about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.

 
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  1. ‘So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to…’

    …the more so as we’ve come to vigorously anthropomorphize our pets.

    …and canines at least are among one of the more vigorous practitioners of gender equity in the animal kingdom. See your basic wolf pack. Alpha male and alpha female form an alpha couple. It’s heartwarming.

    • LOL: byrresheim, sayless
  2. As a side note, we started to raise some chickens a few years ago. I took out a book on raising chickens, and I scrolled through the book. the first page I turned to said that a good laying hen has a moist vent.

    • Thanks: Stan D Mute
  3. The sex differences among dogs are not huge…

    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered) dog and there is a female in heat (not spayed) anywhere nearby. All hell breaks loose. Frankly, it is a good lesson in nature and sex if you are lucky enough to witness it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Check the bite. Females are reputed to bite harder than males.

     

    Don't you know it. Just ask Beowulf.

    Replies: @reactionry

    , @Cortes
    @Buzz Mohawk

    During one of the stages of the Conquest, in talks with local leaders (?Tlaxcalans?), Cortés got a soldier to walk past leading a mare in heat while he threatened the bigwigs with unleashing the full might of Spain including the wrath of the stallion going wild beside them. As told by Bernal Diaz del Castillo.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Stan D Mute
    @Buzz Mohawk


    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered)
     
    And there’s the crux of the biscuit. The overwhelming majority of (white) men today are neutered (not to mention the mania for castrations for dogs & cats)…
  4. Yes, it is just a small step for mankind to have children neutered like pets.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Jonathan Mason

    https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john-money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jonathan Mason

    Sir, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

  5. Ron,
    As I remember it, you had two rabbits who waged a protracted thirty years type war against each other. Were they of opposite sex?

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Dan Hayes

    Oops, Steve not Ron!

    Replies: @Yancey Ward

    , @reactionry
    @Dan Hayes

    Rabbits of opposite sex would have probably shagged like lagomorphs.
    There was a thirty year war between rival bands of Samurai immortalized in Crouching Rabbit, Hidden Hand Grenade

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Samurai+rabbit+helmet&hl=en&authuser=0&ei=AICbYPimEtS5tAauubKABA&oq=Samurai+rabbit+helmet&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoFCC4QkwI6BAgAEEM6AggAOggIABAWEAoQHlCOOFjMTGDsTmgBcAJ4AIABwQGIAdkFkgEDNy4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj4ppLvy8PwAhXUHM0KHa6cDEAQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22098

    Dutch traders were unsuccessful in their attempts to intervene via electrocution with the Baghdad Battery, but finally brought an end to the conflict by unexpectedly tossing a recreation of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
    War was briefly rekindled when a group of Samurai sought revenge for the loss of their Lord & Master as outlined in John Updyke's Ronin Redux.

  6. You had two rabbits who waged a protracted thirty years type war against each other. Were they of opposite sex?

  7. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:

    You generally can’t tell male and female dogs or cats apart. Male dogs and cats tend to be slightly bigger, but you typically wouldn’t know unless by comparing them side by side.

    Gamecock farming is increasingly outlawed in the US though it persists underground. In gamecock farming, you breed and raise gamecocks and harvest them by having them fight each other to the death, as opposed to harvesting by say chopping off the head of a broiler chicken.

    Gamecocks are very territorial and love to fight. They are the closest to the original wild junglefowl that chickens descend from. Gamecock farming, which entails harvest by cockfighting, preserves and develops these original types.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @Anonymous

    Intact male cats are look very different from females. But they are still pretty nice around their human friends, except for the spraying.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

  8. I had a marvelous, endlessly entertaining male parakeet, and here’s how to determine a parakeet’s sex: https://www.cuteness.com/article/determine-sex-parakeet

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    @Auntie Analogue

    As adults the budgie males have a blue cere (nose) and the females have a brown cere.

  9. So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.

    Interesting point.

    Maybe five years back my son and I were helping my cousin harvest along with my uncle and the four of us were sitting having a beer after work looking out over a bit of his pasture, where a neighbor runs some cows and had put in bull to do it’s duty.

    But animals are just one bit that’s been lost moving off the farm. I think actual labor tends to keep people more grounded. When people “work” shuffling paper around–and now just typing in bits–and come home saying how hard they worked and how tired they are … perspectives can get a little “unreal”. And this is precisely what people in our media and political classes do.

    I’ve honestly never met anyone in my life who seemed as psychological healthy and well-grounded as my grandmother, who lived her life as farm wife and raised seven kids through the Depression and the War.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @AnotherDad

    One very important thing lost in the transition to office work is the concept of tradeoffs. If I do this, that won't get done. And both things need to be done right away. Oh, and there are things that need to be done every day, as well as two other things it would be nice to get done right now.
    And you can't do most of it, because the wind shifted and now it's raining.

    , @Che Blutarsky
    @AnotherDad

    Your thesis here most likely has some validity, Steve. Coming from someone who in my youth tried to break up several boar fights, the current conventional wisdom can only be seen as non-serious.

    By the way, some tips about breaking up boar fights: Don't even try it. It's very dangerous, plus your chances of success are pretty much zero. The only way to succeed is to try to slide a fence panel between them. Also, don't bother whacking a boar in the skull with a fence post since they won't even feel it. It is a good way to teach yourself what your own limitations are.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @fnn

    , @AndrewR
    @AnotherDad

    Yeah, when people don't have to deal with concrete reality all the time then their minds become unmoored. Our ruling ideology is increasingly one of exponential delusion, because our ruling class is very far removed from any sort of physical labor.

    , @Old Prude
    @AnotherDad

    I took a day off from shuffling papers yesterday. Got up at 4am, put a bullet in the head of a sick sheep, dug the grave. I had to stop when the farrier showed up to trim the horses feet. He left, I buried the sheep, and while the backhoe was out, pulled up some stumps. Then I spent the afternoon mucking six months of sheep manure out of the barn.

    I'm back shuffling papers today. I am f***ing exhausted. It must have been that triple bourbon I had when we were grilling.

  10. @Dan Hayes
    Ron,
    As I remember it, you had two rabbits who waged a protracted thirty years type war against each other. Were they of opposite sex?

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @reactionry

    Oops, Steve not Ron!

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
    @Dan Hayes

    Hard to tell the difference? Is one of them neutered?

  11. Anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    I owned five parakeets in a row as a child

    Jesus, Steve. You really killed them off quickly. A single parakeet should last an entire childhood.

    Did you let them hop around on you while you were lying in bed and then roll over on them?

    I guess avian vets were rarer back then, and owners didn’t know you need to take a bird to the vet at the first slight hint of a problem, since they conceal their illneses, many of which are quickly cured with antibiotics.

    At any rate, birds are the coolest pets for boys, because they are literally dinosaurs, the only surviving dinosaur line, from 150 million years ago, something that wasn’t the conventional wisdom when you were a kid.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    , @Stan Adams
    @Anon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXEb_ODMlhs

  12. @Buzz Mohawk

    The sex differences among dogs are not huge...
     
    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered) dog and there is a female in heat (not spayed) anywhere nearby. All hell breaks loose. Frankly, it is a good lesson in nature and sex if you are lucky enough to witness it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Cortes, @Stan D Mute

    Check the bite. Females are reputed to bite harder than males.

    Don’t you know it. Just ask Beowulf.

    • Replies: @reactionry
    @Reg Cæsar

    Mostly OT
    [Screaming caps used for "perch" words]

    In 2015 John Derbyshire wrote, " In June I turned seventy. That got me to thinking about the time I have left and what I can most usefully do with it. I would, for example, like to write another book or two before I fall off my PERCH." (While Denmark does not have true fjords, he has likely been pining for something like the social democracy of the Spear-Danes' descendants (-haven't the foggiest what he might think about their weird dental fricatives which you recently described))

    In response to a post last month which referenced Harold Stassen, you mentioned Professor Ian Maitland. A brief search confirmed what little I remembered of the latter's ill-fated campaign:
    "He [Maitland] ran for Congress some years ago and spent five or six days PERCHED on top of a billboard."
    https://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/first-national-academic-freedom-conference/faculty-issues-panel/
    The U.S. has a tradition of pole sitting and for all I know, this pol's sitting grew out of some Old Weird Oxford.



    The above search also coughed up hits for what is surely familiar to at least a few Minnesotans "above a certain age" - The [cisgender?] Rajender Consent Decree. She claimed that she had been denied tenure in her field of chemistry on account of her sex and was awarded $100,000. Her attorneys were given about two million dollars. After victory she flew the coop to become a lawyer in San Francisco.
    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/up-against-the-ivory-tower-shyamala-rajender/1137945259
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajender_v._University_of_Minnesota
    While Maitland didn't slay the trend-setting subcon, his odd duck of a lawsuit was not entirely unsuccessful.
    "Maitland said the University settlement with female faculty created the impression that discrimination against women was endemic on our campus."

    " 'I thought it was a lousy settlement,' he said. 'I felt the University wasn’t defending the honor of its male faculty members.' ”

    Ian's settlement likely allowed him to feather his own nest with $225,000 (minus any attorneys' fees?) and he crowed that "he would set aside the settlement money in his 'war chest' in case the University did not uphold its promise to establish pay for faculty members regardless of their gender.' "

    https://mndaily.com/201323/uncategorized/prof-settles-14-year-old-lawsuit-u-over-honor-male-faculty/

  13. “we just eat the poor losers”

    The long-time lament of elite cannibals.

  14. As far removed as we are from nature, i still have to say that this “gender is socially constructed” stuff –pretty much everything the left/feminists/blank-slaters say about sex–is just stone cold stupid.

    I really don’t see how anyone who gets through high school can believe that nonsense. Humans are not the most sexually dimorphic species. But we’re mid-range. Our sexual dimorphism–form, capabilities and behavior–is all around us, pretty much every day of our lives.

    This is in contrast to the “race does not exist” nonsense. Once you see any sort of data, the nonsense is obvious. But most people in the world, don’t have racial differences thrust in their face everyday. Even in America where we have a pretty dramatic white/black racial differences, most people live in relatively segregated neighborhoods, which are in any case class sorted so even with “diversity” differences are muted–likewise at work, occupation and professional sorting. Unless you live in a mixed area–like the old small town South–or were in colonial administration or physically involved in world trade, most people do not really have the direct contact in sufficient quantity to have independent certainty. So blank-slate lies are quasi-believable to people … when the data is hidden and always explained away.

    I just don’t see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about “social construction” when it comes to sex. It’s just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things “ought” to be. Positively Orwellian.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @AnotherDad


    This is in contrast to the “race does not exist” nonsense...
     
    https://i.ibb.co/NCnFCcX/skincolor.jpg

    , @OilcanFloyd
    @AnotherDad


    I just don’t see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about “social construction” when it comes to sex. It’s just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things “ought” to be. Positively Orwellian.
     
    Most of the woke would be nazis tomorrow if nazis were in charge.

    Replies: @vhrm

  15. I’ve often thought this as well. It’s kinda hard to argue that a bull is a bull because he was exposed to a culture of toxic masculinity or whatever. Furthermore, neutered animals don’t become indistinguishable from the opposite gender. A neutered male is still a male, a spayed female is still a female in some behavioral attributes.

    A lot of Midwestern Boomers and some Gen Xers grew up on farms, or regularly visited grandparents on farms, but that’s much less common among Millennials and Zoomers, who may be two or three generations removed from contact with livestock.

    Lots of pet owners have only one dog or one cat at a time, too, and it can be difficult to identify sex-linked behavior as such if you have no basis for comparison.

    • Agree: Stan D Mute
  16. @AnotherDad

    So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.
     
    Interesting point.

    Maybe five years back my son and I were helping my cousin harvest along with my uncle and the four of us were sitting having a beer after work looking out over a bit of his pasture, where a neighbor runs some cows and had put in bull to do it's duty.

    But animals are just one bit that's been lost moving off the farm. I think actual labor tends to keep people more grounded. When people "work" shuffling paper around--and now just typing in bits--and come home saying how hard they worked and how tired they are ... perspectives can get a little "unreal". And this is precisely what people in our media and political classes do.

    I've honestly never met anyone in my life who seemed as psychological healthy and well-grounded as my grandmother, who lived her life as farm wife and raised seven kids through the Depression and the War.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Che Blutarsky, @AndrewR, @Old Prude

    One very important thing lost in the transition to office work is the concept of tradeoffs. If I do this, that won’t get done. And both things need to be done right away. Oh, and there are things that need to be done every day, as well as two other things it would be nice to get done right now.
    And you can’t do most of it, because the wind shifted and now it’s raining.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  17. @Anon

    I owned five parakeets in a row as a child
     
    Jesus, Steve. You really killed them off quickly. A single parakeet should last an entire childhood.

    Did you let them hop around on you while you were lying in bed and then roll over on them?

    I guess avian vets were rarer back then, and owners didn't know you need to take a bird to the vet at the first slight hint of a problem, since they conceal their illneses, many of which are quickly cured with antibiotics.

    At any rate, birds are the coolest pets for boys, because they are literally dinosaurs, the only surviving dinosaur line, from 150 million years ago, something that wasn't the conventional wisdom when you were a kid.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Stan Adams

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
    @Steve Sailer

    I think you should have just written that you had a cat, and left it at that.

    , @Magylson
    @Steve Sailer

    Your dad was a pirate?

    Replies: @Ralph L

    , @jon
    @Steve Sailer


    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V
     
    Growing up, a neighbor girl had a cat named 'Crystal Princess', it got ran over, and was quickly replaced by 'Crystal Princess II', which ran off one day and was never seen again, being replaced by 'Crystal Princess III'.

    I lost touch with the family, so I have no idea how many sequels there were. I like to think she has a daughter who is giving a big ol' hug to 'Crystal Princess' XX right now.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Did your family use teflon cookware? When heated, the gas it gives off kills birds.

    Also, Calico cats are almost exclusively female.

    , @Cortes
    @Steve Sailer

    All those Tweeters and no mention of Woofers: what was the sound quality like?

    (Our dogs, well bitches, were the “Pancha” series).

  18. We should be looking at the behavior of primates and wondering about ourselves. Maybe at some other animals too. We all forget we are animals but in many cases what proof do we have that we are above instinctual animal behavior beside our assumption that we are?

    Years ago there was supposed to be a conference on the biological basis of violence but it was cancelled. Some people were afraid if what would be discussed, I guess. That is the exact wrong attitude to have. We should be happy to find out the truth, whatever it is. I am not thinking violence is in our DNA but some kind of mind-body thing is going on.

    There are things that are crazy but commonplace in America that I can’t explain. One I saw pointed out is the public shootouts where many people can witness who the killer was. Why take that kind of unnecessary risk if there isn’t a payoff of some kind or looking at it another way, some kind of compulsive behavior going on?

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @notsaying


    Years ago there was supposed to be a conference on the biological basis of violence but it was cancelled. Some people were afraid if what would be discussed, I guess. That is the exact wrong attitude to have. We should be happy to find out the truth, whatever it is.
     
    Oh dear. Are you functioning okay in the 21st Century Western World?

    About dogs: the vast majority of human fatalities from canines come at the points of un-neutered males.

  19. vhrm says:

    Setting aside anything about subtle or less subtle differences in personality or temperament, I suspect that more and more regular exposure to the lifecycle of other animals, especially pregnancy and birthing as in livestock and pets would be grounding in imparting felt sense that there are just intrinsic mechanical differences and that the sexes aren’t changeable. If nothing else i don’t imagine people growing up that way would have any illusions about physical (vs. social) transition of any sort.

    That said, the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife and not to my taste. Sex based quotas in professions on boards etc. are anathema, but generally i’m for letting people pursue whatever jobs or positions they want.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @photondancer
    @vhrm

    "the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife "

    Dear lord, yes. To the point where, a few weeks ago, several posters were vociferously opposing women doing sport or physical activity because it somehow made them bad mothers. Even though healthy, fit women are more fertile, survive pregnancy and childbirth better and have bigger, healthier babies. I can only presume that these people feel threatened by any woman who's not a feeble wreck. Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    Replies: @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Bill P

  20. @Dan Hayes
    @Dan Hayes

    Oops, Steve not Ron!

    Replies: @Yancey Ward

    Hard to tell the difference? Is one of them neutered?

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    I think you should have just written that you had a cat, and left it at that.

  22. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    Your dad was a pirate?

    • LOL: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Magylson

    I took it to mean Sailer Sr got tired of hearing it, not that Sr abandoned the rest of the family to fly free with Tweety.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  23. @AnotherDad

    So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.
     
    Interesting point.

    Maybe five years back my son and I were helping my cousin harvest along with my uncle and the four of us were sitting having a beer after work looking out over a bit of his pasture, where a neighbor runs some cows and had put in bull to do it's duty.

    But animals are just one bit that's been lost moving off the farm. I think actual labor tends to keep people more grounded. When people "work" shuffling paper around--and now just typing in bits--and come home saying how hard they worked and how tired they are ... perspectives can get a little "unreal". And this is precisely what people in our media and political classes do.

    I've honestly never met anyone in my life who seemed as psychological healthy and well-grounded as my grandmother, who lived her life as farm wife and raised seven kids through the Depression and the War.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Che Blutarsky, @AndrewR, @Old Prude

    Your thesis here most likely has some validity, Steve. Coming from someone who in my youth tried to break up several boar fights, the current conventional wisdom can only be seen as non-serious.

    By the way, some tips about breaking up boar fights: Don’t even try it. It’s very dangerous, plus your chances of success are pretty much zero. The only way to succeed is to try to slide a fence panel between them. Also, don’t bother whacking a boar in the skull with a fence post since they won’t even feel it. It is a good way to teach yourself what your own limitations are.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Che Blutarsky

    I ran over a baby javelina wild pig with a station wagon going 45 mph in Big Bend National Park in 1977. I came back to put it out of its misery, but it had gotten up and trotted off into the brush.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @TWS
    @Che Blutarsky

    Yeah we kept some heritage breeds the boars were my least favorite creature on the farm including rats.

    , @fnn
    @Che Blutarsky

    The major occupation of Pit Bulls for many years was not pit fighting but "catch dog" (i.e., holding on to the cheek of a hog so Farmer Jones could do whatever had to be done). I think most catch dogs are now employed in hunting feral hogs. The hounds find them, the catch dog pins them and waits for the hunter to kill the hogs with a large knife.

    That reminds me of my late alcoholic stepfather. One day (for no particular reason) he told me about some guy he met (probably while drinking) who owned an auto junk yard in a black neighborhood. The guy was complaining about how the dogs guarding his junkyard kept getting shot. This was many years ago, but obviously there was a market for dogs that attack savagely and without warning in the ghetto. Maybe not for junkyards, but for semi-clandestine businesses that didn't care much about insurance and lawsuits. Thus, the migration of game-bred Pit Bulls from the rural South to the urban North.

  24. @Anonymous
    You generally can't tell male and female dogs or cats apart. Male dogs and cats tend to be slightly bigger, but you typically wouldn't know unless by comparing them side by side.

    Gamecock farming is increasingly outlawed in the US though it persists underground. In gamecock farming, you breed and raise gamecocks and harvest them by having them fight each other to the death, as opposed to harvesting by say chopping off the head of a broiler chicken.

    Gamecocks are very territorial and love to fight. They are the closest to the original wild junglefowl that chickens descend from. Gamecock farming, which entails harvest by cockfighting, preserves and develops these original types.

    Replies: @Bill P

    Intact male cats are look very different from females. But they are still pretty nice around their human friends, except for the spraying.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Bill P

    It's fairly easy to distinguish fixed male cats from females, too.

    Neutered males will have two "dots" under the tail, one is the anus and the other is where the scrotum used to be. The back legs are very distinguishable from the hindquarters.

    Female cats will have a fairly visible anus but then everything below is usually more blended together with less distinguishable hindquarters relative to the legs, very similar to human female anatomy where the butt often just kind of merges with the back of the legs. It's even more "blended" on female cats because everything is covered in fur and "fluffy" compared to males.

    All that being said, I have cows and chickens on my farm and the sex differences are indeed very prominent compared to house pets.

    Replies: @Bill P

  25. Females of the oblate lard noir variety tend to be larger and more violent. Self-righteous, too. So endearing.

  26. @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, it is just a small step for mankind to have children neutered like pets.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Paperback Writer

  27. It’s pretty funny to watch my female four-month-old Border Collie mix grab a mouthful of a plush blanket, gather up a pile of it underneath her, and start humping it. It strongly resembles a male holding a female by the scruff for mating. She’s also beginning to try to pee directionally, but she throws like a girl.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Macumazahn

    Where I live our neighbors have an elderly golden retriever male (Ringo), who in the past has fathered numerous pups, and a thee-year-old mixed breed spayed female similar to a black labrador (Lucky), but a bit more wolf-like.

    The female frequently mounts the older male in copulatory style with thrusting movements, and I believe this behavior is quite common in canines as a show of dominance.

    Not sure what the lesson is here regarding homo sapiens, except that in the long run, as economist John Maynard Keynes said, we are all fucked.

  28. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve found unneutered male dogs tend to look for trouble more than females. Females are more “if you’re looking for trouble, you’ll get it,” whereas male dogs tend to be the one’s looking for trouble.

    The smarter the breed, usually the better the dog of either sex behaves. When they get dumber, their behavior tends to diverge.

    A quick DuckDuckGo check bears some of this out:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201306/are-male-dogs-more-aggressive-females

  29. Interesting point, Steve.

    Of course horses are an exception. They’re so undimorphic that males and females compete in races.

    I guess horses are “the exception that proves the rule”.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @International Jew

    Not entirely, because we don't eat horses. On the other hand, pigs are an exception to the rule, but then maybe you don't eat those and can be forgiven for forgetting them!

    Although changes from domestication are a well-known fact, I don't think domestication accounts for differences between farm and pet. Rather the differences just inhere in the ancestor species. Wolves and many kinds of larger cats have few sex differences between male and female beyond size, while bison and other bovines (eg, deer) have various degrees of more difference.

    I would posit that, following Steve's observations, animals you want live side by side with are not ones that are highly sexually competitive through fighting and strutting, so dog cat ancestors made better companions. The fact some people have pet pigs points in this direction.

    Steve's point about the lessons we learn from our animal companions is quite ingenious, although he's been pointing out for how long that Darwin was a breeder?

    , @Old Prude
    @International Jew

    As far as appearances, stallions and mare are only told apart by looking at the naughty bits. As far as personality and behavior, stallions are not to be trifled with by the inexperienced. As far as intelligence? My mare likes Kenny Rogers. How smart can she be?

    Replies: @International Jew

  30. @Anon

    I owned five parakeets in a row as a child
     
    Jesus, Steve. You really killed them off quickly. A single parakeet should last an entire childhood.

    Did you let them hop around on you while you were lying in bed and then roll over on them?

    I guess avian vets were rarer back then, and owners didn't know you need to take a bird to the vet at the first slight hint of a problem, since they conceal their illneses, many of which are quickly cured with antibiotics.

    At any rate, birds are the coolest pets for boys, because they are literally dinosaurs, the only surviving dinosaur line, from 150 million years ago, something that wasn't the conventional wisdom when you were a kid.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Stan Adams

  31. I’ve long thought this as well.

    Most humans in history lived amongst animals they raised. Even upper middle class folks had chickens or a cow for milk. And the muscular landed Aristocracies throughout history not only made sure their lads knew about horses (better to ride them) but often prided themselves on having their underlings raise the best livestock (e.g. it was fashionable amongst some of the WASP stock to breed a new type of species and name it).

    About the only exceptions have been Jews since the diaspora, who not only loathed farm work as beneath them, but their dietary laws meant an aversion to much of the livestock useful for feeding or commercial purposes. Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the “clever” Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay. Once they became moneylenders to goyim, any Jewish talent at farming was largely destroyed.

    It was only the idle city rich and the Jewish moneylenders who could engage in fantasies where the sexes acted equally and there were no real differences. Because they never engaged with animals.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @R.G. Camara

    I was with you there RG, until you wandered off in a peculiar direction.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @R.G. Camara


    Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the “clever” Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay
     
    Where are these? I would like to read them. Thanks.

    Replies: @Lucia Chiara

  32. Anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:

    Why would people base their opinions of human differences on non-human animals, which as you point out run the gamut between undetectable to enormous? I don’t believe they do.

    In actuality, the modal PC belief is no longer that men and women are genetically identical behaviorally. The clearest way this shift can be seen is regarding trans issues. The prevailing PC explanation of transgenderism requires accepting a concept of gender, which crucially has two distinct but related meanings: either self-presentation (clothes, mannerisms, pronouns) or a deeper male/female essence or soul (“I knew I was a girl in the wrong body”). In either sense, “gender” is distinct from sex but linked to it (such that there is a tendency for a female gender to go with a female sex and likewise for males.) Admirably, many of the more serious feminists have held out against transness and gender theory–they view gender as characterized by self-presentation as an embarrassing distraction from the real issues of real women and girls, and gender as essence as inseparable from sex.

    Of course, there is still the overwhelming PC prohibition on “punching down” (or not properly deferring to those above you on intersectionality pole.) So comparing women’s aptitudes and interest in computer programming to men (unfavorably) would not be PC because it would be considered woman-hating. Also, even comparing women favorably to men at things like homemaking (multitasking!) is not allowed, because it is viewed as justifying the patriarchy and gender roles (bad, unlike gender.) But believing that women have naturally better leadership styles or are better at whatever other traditionally male task is fine. As Steve has pointed out, a lot of transwomen are really good at extremely traditionally male tasks (decathlon, business, computers, sci fi movie directing.) Ironically, this is taken as evidence that whatever gender (good) is, it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with what those sexists think it does (gender roles, bad)!

  33. jon says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V

    Growing up, a neighbor girl had a cat named ‘Crystal Princess’, it got ran over, and was quickly replaced by ‘Crystal Princess II’, which ran off one day and was never seen again, being replaced by ‘Crystal Princess III’.

    I lost touch with the family, so I have no idea how many sequels there were. I like to think she has a daughter who is giving a big ol’ hug to ‘Crystal Princess’ XX right now.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @jon

    The Simpsons' cat is Snowball II, even though it is black.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @jon


    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V
     
    I'd say the Sailer family has some royalties coming from Jack Dorsey.
  34. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:

    I suspect the conventional wisdom of the current era downplaying biological and behavioral differences between men and women may have a little to do with a big shift in recent centuries in which animals humans most come in contact with, from farm animals to pets.

    If it’s a little, then very, very little. In truth, no one claiming that there is no appreciable differences between humans sexes actually believes it.

  35. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    Did your family use teflon cookware? When heated, the gas it gives off kills birds.

    Also, Calico cats are almost exclusively female.

  36. @vhrm
    Setting aside anything about subtle or less subtle differences in personality or temperament, I suspect that more and more regular exposure to the lifecycle of other animals, especially pregnancy and birthing as in livestock and pets would be grounding in imparting felt sense that there are just intrinsic mechanical differences and that the sexes aren't changeable. If nothing else i don't imagine people growing up that way would have any illusions about physical (vs. social) transition of any sort.

    That said, the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife and not to my taste. Sex based quotas in professions on boards etc. are anathema, but generally i'm for letting people pursue whatever jobs or positions they want.

    Replies: @photondancer

    “the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife ”

    Dear lord, yes. To the point where, a few weeks ago, several posters were vociferously opposing women doing sport or physical activity because it somehow made them bad mothers. Even though healthy, fit women are more fertile, survive pregnancy and childbirth better and have bigger, healthier babies. I can only presume that these people feel threatened by any woman who’s not a feeble wreck. Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @photondancer


    Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

     

    By the way, white women, we need you to pop out a lot more white babies. TIA.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @AndrewR
    @photondancer

    I probably am not speaking for everyone you're referring to, but I think there is a BIG difference between being physically active and playing competitive sports. I eagerly welcome "trans women" destroying women's sports. Women have no business competing athletically. But of course I think women should be active and stay fit. You have apparently blurred these things in your mind.

    Replies: @photondancer

    , @Bill P
    @photondancer

    That's a hoot.

    I was one of the commenters opposing women in men's contact sports. You seem to interpret that as a preference for weak women, but that's just not the case. I like them strong and shapely, like Lucy Lawless.

    The problem with contact sports for women is that they get hurt often because they aren't built for them. Their tendons are far more elastic, which leads to a much higher likelihood of overextension and the like. Women get knee injuries playing soccer at higher rates than men playing football. I also don't think they fit women's psychological profile as well. I'm all for women in track and field, swimming, tennis, volleyball, skiing, cycling, etc. But anything that requires aggressive physical contact just seems unnatural and harmful when women do it. If those sports were really so natural for normal women, they wouldn't be so full of lesbians.

    BTW, I think there should be limits for men, too. MMA rubs me the wrong way. I won't let my sons do that, even though they're strong boys (they've got strong mothers).

    Replies: @photondancer

  37. @notsaying
    We should be looking at the behavior of primates and wondering about ourselves. Maybe at some other animals too. We all forget we are animals but in many cases what proof do we have that we are above instinctual animal behavior beside our assumption that we are?

    Years ago there was supposed to be a conference on the biological basis of violence but it was cancelled. Some people were afraid if what would be discussed, I guess. That is the exact wrong attitude to have. We should be happy to find out the truth, whatever it is. I am not thinking violence is in our DNA but some kind of mind-body thing is going on.

    There are things that are crazy but commonplace in America that I can't explain. One I saw pointed out is the public shootouts where many people can witness who the killer was. Why take that kind of unnecessary risk if there isn't a payoff of some kind or looking at it another way, some kind of compulsive behavior going on?

    Replies: @Polistra

    Years ago there was supposed to be a conference on the biological basis of violence but it was cancelled. Some people were afraid if what would be discussed, I guess. That is the exact wrong attitude to have. We should be happy to find out the truth, whatever it is.

    Oh dear. Are you functioning okay in the 21st Century Western World?

    About dogs: the vast majority of human fatalities from canines come at the points of un-neutered males.

  38. @Che Blutarsky
    @AnotherDad

    Your thesis here most likely has some validity, Steve. Coming from someone who in my youth tried to break up several boar fights, the current conventional wisdom can only be seen as non-serious.

    By the way, some tips about breaking up boar fights: Don't even try it. It's very dangerous, plus your chances of success are pretty much zero. The only way to succeed is to try to slide a fence panel between them. Also, don't bother whacking a boar in the skull with a fence post since they won't even feel it. It is a good way to teach yourself what your own limitations are.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @fnn

    I ran over a baby javelina wild pig with a station wagon going 45 mph in Big Bend National Park in 1977. I came back to put it out of its misery, but it had gotten up and trotted off into the brush.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    You are a BAD man.

    First you let your Cocker Spaniel bite your friends. Then you run over a baby pig. Finally, you allow a predatory bird to terrify a poor rabbit.

    You should never be trusted in the presence of animals -- which leads one to wonder why you are trusted to be here with us.

  39. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Check the bite. Females are reputed to bite harder than males.

     

    Don't you know it. Just ask Beowulf.

    Replies: @reactionry

    Mostly OT
    [Screaming caps used for “perch” words]

    In 2015 John Derbyshire wrote, ” In June I turned seventy. That got me to thinking about the time I have left and what I can most usefully do with it. I would, for example, like to write another book or two before I fall off my PERCH.” (While Denmark does not have true fjords, he has likely been pining for something like the social democracy of the Spear-Danes’ descendants (-haven’t the foggiest what he might think about their weird dental fricatives which you recently described))

    In response to a post last month which referenced Harold Stassen, you mentioned Professor Ian Maitland. A brief search confirmed what little I remembered of the latter’s ill-fated campaign:
    “He [Maitland] ran for Congress some years ago and spent five or six days PERCHED on top of a billboard.”
    https://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/first-national-academic-freedom-conference/faculty-issues-panel/
    The U.S. has a tradition of pole sitting and for all I know, this pol’s sitting grew out of some Old Weird Oxford.

    [MORE]

    The above search also coughed up hits for what is surely familiar to at least a few Minnesotans “above a certain age” – The [cisgender?] Rajender Consent Decree. She claimed that she had been denied tenure in her field of chemistry on account of her sex and was awarded $100,000. Her attorneys were given about two million dollars. After victory she flew the coop to become a lawyer in San Francisco.
    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/up-against-the-ivory-tower-shyamala-rajender/1137945259
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajender_v._University_of_Minnesota
    While Maitland didn’t slay the trend-setting subcon, his odd duck of a lawsuit was not entirely unsuccessful.
    “Maitland said the University settlement with female faculty created the impression that discrimination against women was endemic on our campus.”

    ” ‘I thought it was a lousy settlement,’ he said. ‘I felt the University wasn’t defending the honor of its male faculty members.’ ”

    Ian’s settlement likely allowed him to feather his own nest with $225,000 (minus any attorneys’ fees?) and he crowed that “he would set aside the settlement money in his ‘war chest’ in case the University did not uphold its promise to establish pay for faculty members regardless of their gender.’ ”

    https://mndaily.com/201323/uncategorized/prof-settles-14-year-old-lawsuit-u-over-honor-male-faculty/

  40. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    I expect that the lack of knowledge of animal husbandry is more related to the belief that nurture is all.
    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests. This means that the over-educated gender theorists will be ignorant of reality until their mid-thirties, or possibly forever if they fail to breed at all.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Anonymous


    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests.
     
    Later in life ... and smaller families.

    If your family size is two you've got a 50-50 shot of never even getting to this "wake up doofus" slap of reality.

    Replies: @John Mansfield

    , @anon
    @Anonymous

    No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests.

    Many of the most obnoxious male feminists have only daughters. Dads of Daughters Only (DODO) are often the guys who ruin soccer practice, etc. These are the guys who get all upset because some trans track runner is always passing their star-wannabe daughter. Since it could affect college scholarships, it's real in some sense. I imagine being a former jock wannabe, with one and only one child, is stressful.

    That's old stuff, though.

    Now we've gone from the passive "blank slate" feminists who tried the gender-neutral parenting thing to more aggressive Tumblerina "puberty blockers at 10 are a great idea, bigot!" craziness. I dunno if the choice of pets matters or not anymore, since so many people literally live on their phone.

  41. @Dan Hayes
    Ron,
    As I remember it, you had two rabbits who waged a protracted thirty years type war against each other. Were they of opposite sex?

    Replies: @Dan Hayes, @reactionry

    Rabbits of opposite sex would have probably shagged like lagomorphs.
    There was a thirty year war between rival bands of Samurai immortalized in Crouching Rabbit, Hidden Hand Grenade

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Samurai+rabbit+helmet&hl=en&authuser=0&ei=AICbYPimEtS5tAauubKABA&oq=Samurai+rabbit+helmet&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoFCC4QkwI6BAgAEEM6AggAOggIABAWEAoQHlCOOFjMTGDsTmgBcAJ4AIABwQGIAdkFkgEDNy4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj4ppLvy8PwAhXUHM0KHa6cDEAQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22098

    Dutch traders were unsuccessful in their attempts to intervene via electrocution with the Baghdad Battery, but finally brought an end to the conflict by unexpectedly tossing a recreation of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
    War was briefly rekindled when a group of Samurai sought revenge for the loss of their Lord & Master as outlined in John Updyke’s Ronin Redux.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  42. Mr. Sailer has earned my subscription fee with this one little item.

  43. Great observation

    But I’ll add…

    If you actually interact with your pets you realize their are HUGE sex differences…castrated or not.

    Most people however, do no interact with their pets, just like they don’t interact with their children, so they never figure that out

    People always come over to our house and swoon over our pets. But that’s because we interact with our pets so much. It’s very rare nowadays to find people who actually Spend Time with their human family/pet family.

    Both people working full time, stops a lot of life discovery

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  44. Unfortunately some male cattle are just wasted as they are not needed in the dairy trade. The practice around this has become a significant piece of evidence used by the anti dairy cause. It is a particular problem in the UK, where past bad PR has made veal very difficult to sell. In other countries it is much more popular.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Anon55uu

    Why raise a steer except to eat it?

  45. I had a young (and very woke) female colleague a few years ago who kept only female pets, because, as she put it, she preferred females, regardless of species. She joyously “came out” as a lesbian to our office mates on a regular basis, but somehow at one time or another found herself falling into bed with several of the office’s handful of traditionally masculine men in turn.
    She also flew into a rage on several occasions when someone suggested that sex differences were real and not just a social construct.
    As I understand it, her ability to navigate the baffling contradictions in her worldview was undeniable proof of her enlightenment.

  46. I think there might be some selection effect here, at least where it concerns dogs. There is not much difference between the sexes with the breeds that make good family pets in the suburbs, such as labs. That’s how they got to be family breeds. Among many breeds though, the difference is large, and makes them more suited to farms, specific working jobs, etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jimbobjim

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn't matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jonathan Mason

  47. @photondancer
    @vhrm

    "the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife "

    Dear lord, yes. To the point where, a few weeks ago, several posters were vociferously opposing women doing sport or physical activity because it somehow made them bad mothers. Even though healthy, fit women are more fertile, survive pregnancy and childbirth better and have bigger, healthier babies. I can only presume that these people feel threatened by any woman who's not a feeble wreck. Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    Replies: @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Bill P

    Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    By the way, white women, we need you to pop out a lot more white babies. TIA.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Pericles

    By the way, White men, we need you to do the deed that makes White babies. Even if you don’t stick around to financially, emotionally. and socially support those babies for 20 years.

    And while White men are doing that, maybe they could join the Aldens and fight to end affirmative action discrimination against Whites, especially White men.

    Instead of commenting about the lack of White babies, do your part MEN OF UNZ.

    If you are worried about your children’s future in a country in the mid stage of White genocide. Just change your name to a common Spanish one and the kids will be affirmative action aristocrats from birth.

    It wasn’t White women and non Whites who

    1issued the first affirmative action presidential executive order March 1961,

    2 passed the civil rights for all but Whites laws, and the 1968 affirmative action law

    3 made the rulings in Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber. Thus making it possible for White men employers to legally discriminate against other White men.

    It was White men who were presidents Vice Presidents Senators Congress critters and Supreme Court judges.

    White men did it to their fellow White men.

    The all White man boards Presidents Vice Presidents and administrators and workers for the Ford , Rockefeller Carnegie and other great foundations who invented the feminazi cheap labor movement is a story for another day.

  48. @jon
    @Steve Sailer


    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V
     
    Growing up, a neighbor girl had a cat named 'Crystal Princess', it got ran over, and was quickly replaced by 'Crystal Princess II', which ran off one day and was never seen again, being replaced by 'Crystal Princess III'.

    I lost touch with the family, so I have no idea how many sequels there were. I like to think she has a daughter who is giving a big ol' hug to 'Crystal Princess' XX right now.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

    The Simpsons’ cat is Snowball II, even though it is black.

  49. @Jimbobjim
    I think there might be some selection effect here, at least where it concerns dogs. There is not much difference between the sexes with the breeds that make good family pets in the suburbs, such as labs. That’s how they got to be family breeds. Among many breeds though, the difference is large, and makes them more suited to farms, specific working jobs, etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn’t matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Word of warning: when you get a farm, don't hitch a plow to your pigs...

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Steve Sailer


    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn’t matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.
     
    Working dog breeds display obvious dimorphism - without seeing a prepuce you can easily tell working lines German Shepherds apart by sex. They have behavioral differences as well, and as many have pointed out intact male dogs, particularly of working breeds, display marked male behavioral traits. (These dogs are the most willing to challenge humans for pack Alpha, which can be a problem).

    Recall as well that the observable phenotypical diversity of dogs is a product of domestication which selected for neotenous traits - traits like a short muzzle found in Molasser breeds is a product of switching "off" the genes responsible for the lengthening of the muzzle in wolves. Other traits like curly tails, spots, etc., as well as a playful, eternally puppy-like disposition are all the product of "turning off" genes responsible for maturation in wolves leaving the dog in a puppy-like state according to the traits for which it was bred. (N.B., canines have 39 pairs of chromosomes compared with 23 for humans so there is more room to play). In effect, dogs are retarded wolves.

    Dogs bred as pets don't display as much dimorphism because they're bred for companionship and breed conformation (in other words, they're bred not to display dimorphism), so in the process those breeds remain more puppy-like for the duration of their lives. Additionally, other than dogs retained for breeding purposes, these dogs are commonly spayed or neutered very early in life in the West.

    By contrast, working lines of working breeds are bred first for behavioral attributes (including "civil aggression," or the willingness to fight a man) and temperament, and not primarily for companionship or docility. As a consequence, they are more "mature" in many senses than companion dogs, and display marked sexual dimorphism as a result.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Steve Sailer


    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn’t matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.
     
    Forgive the breach of etiquette for double responding.

    Thoroughbred horses are a different kettle of fish - and I believe there is probably a bell curve effect similar to human intelligence by sex - at least at the right tail of the very fastest thoroughbreds suitable for stakes races, the males dominate. The occasional high-performing filly exists but remains rare. In stakes races with other high-performing thoroughbreds, a 1% premium in speed is massive in results.

    Additionally, if you view the thoroughbred industry through the eyes of the owners, there is much less incentive to invest in training a filly to compete in lucrative stakes races because a high performing male thoroughbred can return big dollars in stud fees (although the governing bodies require "live cover" so artificial insemination is prohibited) relative to the approximate year gestation period for foaling.

    As for eating animals, I don't think humans have paid much attention to the dimorphism of those animals because with the exception of male breeding stock, male livestock animals are typically either castrated or consumed young (calves of milking breeds being veal, and lambs). Castration has a history both for making beasts of burden (i.e., oxen) and more controllable livestock free of "boar taint" off flavor in the meat (i.e., steer and barrows). The intact males of common livestock species can be both difficult to control and exceedingly dangerous to human life, so we just don't keep that many of them around. With only a relative few of these animals in existence, and precautions for handling them, there wasn't much incentive to further domesticate them temperamentally.
    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Steve Sailer

    However the males are much more valuable, since they can sire hundreds of offspring, and the females only a few.

  50. @Auntie Analogue
    I had a marvelous, endlessly entertaining male parakeet, and here's how to determine a parakeet's sex: https://www.cuteness.com/article/determine-sex-parakeet

    Replies: @Joe Paluka

    As adults the budgie males have a blue cere (nose) and the females have a brown cere.

  51. Deer hunters are of course quite familiar with the sex differences of the animals. Does are pretty stupid and careless and will often walk right up to you. Bucks, on the other hand, can be quite wily, cautious, and will go nocturnal under pressure. They will let their guard down in pursuit of a hot doe during the rut, though, which can lead to their downfall.

  52. @ Sailer,

    It may be good for discussion purposes but in my opinion the animal-pet-human-sex influence is a truly silly article/premise. Maybe if one grew up with parakeets, or goldfish it might be something to consider but this time it is a bridge too far logically.

    If some think that there are little differences between male and female dogs for example well maybe they could also be forgiven if they can’t see the difference between Bruce and Caitlyn Jenner.

    I farm beef and have a variety of peripheral pets and varmints I have to deal with so to infuse my two cents of observation into the premise may be overly prejudicial but just the same why don’t we take a bit of a historical perspective on the prospective issue with a focus on children, the proverbial future.

    Up to 100 years ago at least 70% of citizens in major western countries lived in rural areas (not necessarily being farmers but seeing lots of livestock). Then the percentages inverted but still in my experience very many kids in cities and suburbia had some sort of pets, hamsters, gerbils etc but mostly cats and dogs. Any one of these pets would in some way or form be a constant reminder if they were a ‘girl’ or a ‘boy’. Many such pets were bred at home. I recall that in the good old days that was one of the reason parents encouraged their children to have pets in the first place as well as teaching them the concept of responsibility.

    Now what changed recently where we even have to consider such insane concepts of there being little to no differences between the sexes? How about the ubiquity of the internet and personal zombie devices coupled with a social media on a purposefully destructive mission to divide kids and their idiot parents to undermine what used to be traditional life? It wasn’t Rex and Princess looking alike.

    I was given a wolf dog pup about 10 years ago by a friend’s son. He had gotten it for his kids for the EXPRESS purpose of getting them off their devices and gaming boxes (forget about contemplating sex differences). It worked good for about 1/2 hour. Then the dog started going potty all over the apartment and chewed the Ikea furniture because the kids kept on being glued to their addictions and didn’t feed or walk the pup while he was away at work.

    In my opinion if your suggested premise was “we should expose ourselves and our children more to pets and perhaps go regularly to the zoo, such that we can observe the differences between the sexes” it would make more sense. Would anyone have difficulty noticing the difference between a male peacock and the hen? Lions? And if it’s not against the law (yet) have the children leave their devices at home. Sorry, too radical. Have them turn them off.

    My dos centavos rant…

    Cheers-

  53. @Anonymous
    I expect that the lack of knowledge of animal husbandry is more related to the belief that nurture is all.
    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests. This means that the over-educated gender theorists will be ignorant of reality until their mid-thirties, or possibly forever if they fail to breed at all.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @anon

    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests.

    Later in life … and smaller families.

    If your family size is two you’ve got a 50-50 shot of never even getting to this “wake up doofus” slap of reality.

    • Replies: @John Mansfield
    @AnotherDad

    With two, a boy and a girl, a parent could still get away with thinking, "They are two different people, so of course they are different." In families with four or more children there is experience that sex differences are a different class of difference. Fifty years ago everyone knew several larger families; now few do. (I do, but my circumstances are exceptional.)

  54. @International Jew
    Interesting point, Steve.

    Of course horses are an exception. They're so undimorphic that males and females compete in races.

    I guess horses are "the exception that proves the rule".

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Old Prude

    Not entirely, because we don’t eat horses. On the other hand, pigs are an exception to the rule, but then maybe you don’t eat those and can be forgiven for forgetting them!

    Although changes from domestication are a well-known fact, I don’t think domestication accounts for differences between farm and pet. Rather the differences just inhere in the ancestor species. Wolves and many kinds of larger cats have few sex differences between male and female beyond size, while bison and other bovines (eg, deer) have various degrees of more difference.

    I would posit that, following Steve’s observations, animals you want live side by side with are not ones that are highly sexually competitive through fighting and strutting, so dog cat ancestors made better companions. The fact some people have pet pigs points in this direction.

    Steve’s point about the lessons we learn from our animal companions is quite ingenious, although he’s been pointing out for how long that Darwin was a breeder?

  55. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimbobjim

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn't matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jonathan Mason

    Word of warning: when you get a farm, don’t hitch a plow to your pigs…

  56. In contrast, pets usually don’t have huge sex differences

    Here are some funny stories about rat balls for you.

  57. Interestingly, the muntjac deer and mouse deer, both pet-acceptable, have rather small antlers despite not being truly domesticated species. This lends credence to the idea that companion animals are chosen, rather than bred, in part for less sexual dimorphism.

    Other animals were chosen for charateristics that made them useful, I suspect, such as tastiness.

  58. And the common practice of neutering pets reduces sex differences even more.

    Would that that were true. I have two GSDs, a dog and a bitch, both the best dogs ever. From the moment we brought the 10 pound puppy-dog home, he attempted to establish dominance over the 90 pound bitch. It was ridiculous to see. He was the alpha male and he let her know it.

    The dog was ridiculously protective of his family, aggressive toward outsiders. Since we didn’t plan to breed him, we had him neutered (turned into a Democrat) at about 18 months for health reasons and hoping to moderate his aggression toward outsiders.

    Yeah, no. Still alpha-male, still very hostile toward non-family, even without testosterone.

  59. @Buzz Mohawk

    The sex differences among dogs are not huge...
     
    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered) dog and there is a female in heat (not spayed) anywhere nearby. All hell breaks loose. Frankly, it is a good lesson in nature and sex if you are lucky enough to witness it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Cortes, @Stan D Mute

    During one of the stages of the Conquest, in talks with local leaders (?Tlaxcalans?), Cortés got a soldier to walk past leading a mare in heat while he threatened the bigwigs with unleashing the full might of Spain including the wrath of the stallion going wild beside them. As told by Bernal Diaz del Castillo.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Cortes

    That is very interesting. Thank you.

    I think there is a lot of historical information regarding that time in Mexican/Conquistador history that most people like me never have been exposed to. Just recently, my Bing page had a picture like this (after the "MORE" tag)
    https://h2.gifposter.com/bingImages/Cholula_EN-US2015612893_1920x1080.jpg

    Apparently, the Spanish/Catholic conquerers built a cathedral right on top of an Aztec pyramid. That is what Jews call chutzpah!

    But people like me know little or nothing about this history, even though it is very real and must have been very tragic for the people who were conquered.

    I judge from your name, Cortes, that you are much closer to this subject than I am. I simply thank you for your interesting reply.

  60. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimbobjim

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn't matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jonathan Mason

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn’t matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Working dog breeds display obvious dimorphism – without seeing a prepuce you can easily tell working lines German Shepherds apart by sex. They have behavioral differences as well, and as many have pointed out intact male dogs, particularly of working breeds, display marked male behavioral traits. (These dogs are the most willing to challenge humans for pack Alpha, which can be a problem).

    Recall as well that the observable phenotypical diversity of dogs is a product of domestication which selected for neotenous traits – traits like a short muzzle found in Molasser breeds is a product of switching “off” the genes responsible for the lengthening of the muzzle in wolves. Other traits like curly tails, spots, etc., as well as a playful, eternally puppy-like disposition are all the product of “turning off” genes responsible for maturation in wolves leaving the dog in a puppy-like state according to the traits for which it was bred. (N.B., canines have 39 pairs of chromosomes compared with 23 for humans so there is more room to play). In effect, dogs are retarded wolves.

    Dogs bred as pets don’t display as much dimorphism because they’re bred for companionship and breed conformation (in other words, they’re bred not to display dimorphism), so in the process those breeds remain more puppy-like for the duration of their lives. Additionally, other than dogs retained for breeding purposes, these dogs are commonly spayed or neutered very early in life in the West.

    By contrast, working lines of working breeds are bred first for behavioral attributes (including “civil aggression,” or the willingness to fight a man) and temperament, and not primarily for companionship or docility. As a consequence, they are more “mature” in many senses than companion dogs, and display marked sexual dimorphism as a result.

  61. @AnotherDad
    @Anonymous


    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests.
     
    Later in life ... and smaller families.

    If your family size is two you've got a 50-50 shot of never even getting to this "wake up doofus" slap of reality.

    Replies: @John Mansfield

    With two, a boy and a girl, a parent could still get away with thinking, “They are two different people, so of course they are different.” In families with four or more children there is experience that sex differences are a different class of difference. Fifty years ago everyone knew several larger families; now few do. (I do, but my circumstances are exceptional.)

  62. @AnotherDad

    So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.
     
    Interesting point.

    Maybe five years back my son and I were helping my cousin harvest along with my uncle and the four of us were sitting having a beer after work looking out over a bit of his pasture, where a neighbor runs some cows and had put in bull to do it's duty.

    But animals are just one bit that's been lost moving off the farm. I think actual labor tends to keep people more grounded. When people "work" shuffling paper around--and now just typing in bits--and come home saying how hard they worked and how tired they are ... perspectives can get a little "unreal". And this is precisely what people in our media and political classes do.

    I've honestly never met anyone in my life who seemed as psychological healthy and well-grounded as my grandmother, who lived her life as farm wife and raised seven kids through the Depression and the War.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Che Blutarsky, @AndrewR, @Old Prude

    Yeah, when people don’t have to deal with concrete reality all the time then their minds become unmoored. Our ruling ideology is increasingly one of exponential delusion, because our ruling class is very far removed from any sort of physical labor.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimbobjim

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn't matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jonathan Mason

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn’t matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Forgive the breach of etiquette for double responding.

    Thoroughbred horses are a different kettle of fish – and I believe there is probably a bell curve effect similar to human intelligence by sex – at least at the right tail of the very fastest thoroughbreds suitable for stakes races, the males dominate. The occasional high-performing filly exists but remains rare. In stakes races with other high-performing thoroughbreds, a 1% premium in speed is massive in results.

    Additionally, if you view the thoroughbred industry through the eyes of the owners, there is much less incentive to invest in training a filly to compete in lucrative stakes races because a high performing male thoroughbred can return big dollars in stud fees (although the governing bodies require “live cover” so artificial insemination is prohibited) relative to the approximate year gestation period for foaling.

    As for eating animals, I don’t think humans have paid much attention to the dimorphism of those animals because with the exception of male breeding stock, male livestock animals are typically either castrated or consumed young (calves of milking breeds being veal, and lambs). Castration has a history both for making beasts of burden (i.e., oxen) and more controllable livestock free of “boar taint” off flavor in the meat (i.e., steer and barrows). The intact males of common livestock species can be both difficult to control and exceedingly dangerous to human life, so we just don’t keep that many of them around. With only a relative few of these animals in existence, and precautions for handling them, there wasn’t much incentive to further domesticate them temperamentally.

  64. anon[982] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I expect that the lack of knowledge of animal husbandry is more related to the belief that nurture is all.
    The gender nonsense will be related to people having children later in life. No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests. This means that the over-educated gender theorists will be ignorant of reality until their mid-thirties, or possibly forever if they fail to breed at all.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @anon

    No one who has raised a son and a daughter could be in any doubt that male and female humans differ markedly in both temperament and interests.

    Many of the most obnoxious male feminists have only daughters. Dads of Daughters Only (DODO) are often the guys who ruin soccer practice, etc. These are the guys who get all upset because some trans track runner is always passing their star-wannabe daughter. Since it could affect college scholarships, it’s real in some sense. I imagine being a former jock wannabe, with one and only one child, is stressful.

    That’s old stuff, though.

    Now we’ve gone from the passive “blank slate” feminists who tried the gender-neutral parenting thing to more aggressive Tumblerina “puberty blockers at 10 are a great idea, bigot!” craziness. I dunno if the choice of pets matters or not anymore, since so many people literally live on their phone.

  65. @Macumazahn
    It's pretty funny to watch my female four-month-old Border Collie mix grab a mouthful of a plush blanket, gather up a pile of it underneath her, and start humping it. It strongly resembles a male holding a female by the scruff for mating. She's also beginning to try to pee directionally, but she throws like a girl.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Where I live our neighbors have an elderly golden retriever male (Ringo), who in the past has fathered numerous pups, and a thee-year-old mixed breed spayed female similar to a black labrador (Lucky), but a bit more wolf-like.

    The female frequently mounts the older male in copulatory style with thrusting movements, and I believe this behavior is quite common in canines as a show of dominance.

    Not sure what the lesson is here regarding homo sapiens, except that in the long run, as economist John Maynard Keynes said, we are all fucked.

  66. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimbobjim

    Perhaps working animals tend to have smaller sex differences that eating animals? Male thoroughbreds average only about 1% faster than female thoroughbreds, which is why female race horses occasionally win big races. My vague impression is that sex doesn't matter too much to Eskimos picking sled dogs.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jonathan Mason

    However the males are much more valuable, since they can sire hundreds of offspring, and the females only a few.

    • LOL: epebble
  67. @Bill P
    @Anonymous

    Intact male cats are look very different from females. But they are still pretty nice around their human friends, except for the spraying.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    It’s fairly easy to distinguish fixed male cats from females, too.

    Neutered males will have two “dots” under the tail, one is the anus and the other is where the scrotum used to be. The back legs are very distinguishable from the hindquarters.

    Female cats will have a fairly visible anus but then everything below is usually more blended together with less distinguishable hindquarters relative to the legs, very similar to human female anatomy where the butt often just kind of merges with the back of the legs. It’s even more “blended” on female cats because everything is covered in fur and “fluffy” compared to males.

    All that being said, I have cows and chickens on my farm and the sex differences are indeed very prominent compared to house pets.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @JR Ewing

    Yeah, I can tell because I've had a cat for most of my life (I don't like living with rats). But the difference with intact toms is really obvious. Their faces are much broader and they are built differently. Neutered males actually get bigger, but they have a neuter look with a narrower face and less rugged physique.

    I have a friend with a farm nearby, and I take my kids there to play every couple weeks or so. The goats really display sexual dimorphism. The males are always butting each other and trying to mount anything they can, while the females are always leading their kids around.

    Children seem to pick up on it very quickly and intuitively understand sex differences when exposed to farm animals. I think Steve is right. Having only neutered pets limits kids' understanding of the natural world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

  68. @AnotherDad
    As far removed as we are from nature, i still have to say that this "gender is socially constructed" stuff --pretty much everything the left/feminists/blank-slaters say about sex--is just stone cold stupid.

    I really don't see how anyone who gets through high school can believe that nonsense. Humans are not the most sexually dimorphic species. But we're mid-range. Our sexual dimorphism--form, capabilities and behavior--is all around us, pretty much every day of our lives.

    This is in contrast to the "race does not exist" nonsense. Once you see any sort of data, the nonsense is obvious. But most people in the world, don't have racial differences thrust in their face everyday. Even in America where we have a pretty dramatic white/black racial differences, most people live in relatively segregated neighborhoods, which are in any case class sorted so even with "diversity" differences are muted--likewise at work, occupation and professional sorting. Unless you live in a mixed area--like the old small town South--or were in colonial administration or physically involved in world trade, most people do not really have the direct contact in sufficient quantity to have independent certainty. So blank-slate lies are quasi-believable to people ... when the data is hidden and always explained away.

    I just don't see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about "social construction" when it comes to sex. It's just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things "ought" to be. Positively Orwellian.

    Replies: @Adam Smith, @OilcanFloyd

    This is in contrast to the “race does not exist” nonsense…

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  69. anon[507] • Disclaimer says:

    When we left the farm behind, we left common sense behind.

    The implications of this theory are enormous. Domestication, whether of animal or human, has the side effect of narrowing sex differences…the aggression is bred out of males and the maternal instinct out of females….or of narrowing the *expected* sex difference (domesticated people tend to want to believe in sex sameness).

    Domestication gave us civilization. White people have been self-domesticating for a long time; it’s what makes White lands liveable. The problem is when domestication goes too far, and the animal – and human – lose the ability to survive in the real world. Domesticated pets are easy prey for feral predators; domesticated humans are easy prey for feral invaders.

    Eventually, domesticated animals revert to their wild form if left to the devices of nature. They relearn their ancient, evolved behaviors that served them well before humans took them in and coddled them with free food and shelter and mandatory neutering.

    Likewise, domesticated Whites will revert to their wild form when left to the devices of nature. Many will be unable to survive. The ones left standing and thriving will have relearned those ancient, evolved behaviors that brought their race to the pinnacle of world domination and achievement.

  70. Pigs are supposed to become very friendly and docile when raised on an old fashioned family farm. Like pets and dairy cows, they grow to like the people feeding them. Like the chickens, the pigs were often the responsibility of the kids who played with the piglets. And left alone with a fenced yard and a shed to sleep in they will pick a certain spot in the outside area for a toilet. Which makes it easier for the farmer to collect for fertilizer.

    There’s a fraternity in Westwood that has a pet pig. It’s natural pig size, About the size of a German Shepherd. It stays in the back yard most of the time but walks around the block sometimes. It’s destroyed the back yard though. Not a sprig of greenery, just hard packed clay. There’s a fad for pet pigs among animal lovers liberals commies gays and other enemies of mankind.

    The real pushback against service animals on airplanes started when a fake service pet pig pooped early in the flight and if you’ve ever smelled pig manure you know how the passengers reacted. Airlines started to push back against the cheapskates refuse to pay to ship their living security blankies as freight.

    Horses get attached to humans too. Or maybe it’s the food and water.

  71. @AnotherDad

    So, our worldviews may about human nature may be subtly influenced by the non-human nature we are most exposed to.
     
    Interesting point.

    Maybe five years back my son and I were helping my cousin harvest along with my uncle and the four of us were sitting having a beer after work looking out over a bit of his pasture, where a neighbor runs some cows and had put in bull to do it's duty.

    But animals are just one bit that's been lost moving off the farm. I think actual labor tends to keep people more grounded. When people "work" shuffling paper around--and now just typing in bits--and come home saying how hard they worked and how tired they are ... perspectives can get a little "unreal". And this is precisely what people in our media and political classes do.

    I've honestly never met anyone in my life who seemed as psychological healthy and well-grounded as my grandmother, who lived her life as farm wife and raised seven kids through the Depression and the War.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Che Blutarsky, @AndrewR, @Old Prude

    I took a day off from shuffling papers yesterday. Got up at 4am, put a bullet in the head of a sick sheep, dug the grave. I had to stop when the farrier showed up to trim the horses feet. He left, I buried the sheep, and while the backhoe was out, pulled up some stumps. Then I spent the afternoon mucking six months of sheep manure out of the barn.

    I’m back shuffling papers today. I am f***ing exhausted. It must have been that triple bourbon I had when we were grilling.

    • Thanks: vhrm
  72. @International Jew
    Interesting point, Steve.

    Of course horses are an exception. They're so undimorphic that males and females compete in races.

    I guess horses are "the exception that proves the rule".

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Old Prude

    As far as appearances, stallions and mare are only told apart by looking at the naughty bits. As far as personality and behavior, stallions are not to be trifled with by the inexperienced. As far as intelligence? My mare likes Kenny Rogers. How smart can she be?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Old Prude

    And then there was Mr. Ed.

  73. @R.G. Camara
    I've long thought this as well.

    Most humans in history lived amongst animals they raised. Even upper middle class folks had chickens or a cow for milk. And the muscular landed Aristocracies throughout history not only made sure their lads knew about horses (better to ride them) but often prided themselves on having their underlings raise the best livestock (e.g. it was fashionable amongst some of the WASP stock to breed a new type of species and name it).

    About the only exceptions have been Jews since the diaspora, who not only loathed farm work as beneath them, but their dietary laws meant an aversion to much of the livestock useful for feeding or commercial purposes. Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the "clever" Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay. Once they became moneylenders to goyim, any Jewish talent at farming was largely destroyed.

    It was only the idle city rich and the Jewish moneylenders who could engage in fantasies where the sexes acted equally and there were no real differences. Because they never engaged with animals.

    Replies: @Old Prude, @Paperback Writer

    I was with you there RG, until you wandered off in a peculiar direction.

  74. @photondancer
    @vhrm

    "the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife "

    Dear lord, yes. To the point where, a few weeks ago, several posters were vociferously opposing women doing sport or physical activity because it somehow made them bad mothers. Even though healthy, fit women are more fertile, survive pregnancy and childbirth better and have bigger, healthier babies. I can only presume that these people feel threatened by any woman who's not a feeble wreck. Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    Replies: @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Bill P

    I probably am not speaking for everyone you’re referring to, but I think there is a BIG difference between being physically active and playing competitive sports. I eagerly welcome “trans women” destroying women’s sports. Women have no business competing athletically. But of course I think women should be active and stay fit. You have apparently blurred these things in your mind.

    • Disagree: notsaying
    • Replies: @photondancer
    @AndrewR

    Nope. It was the posters here who were blurring them. And there is no good reason to oppose womens competitive sport.

  75. @Pericles
    @photondancer


    Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

     

    By the way, white women, we need you to pop out a lot more white babies. TIA.

    Replies: @Alden

    By the way, White men, we need you to do the deed that makes White babies. Even if you don’t stick around to financially, emotionally. and socially support those babies for 20 years.

    And while White men are doing that, maybe they could join the Aldens and fight to end affirmative action discrimination against Whites, especially White men.

    Instead of commenting about the lack of White babies, do your part MEN OF UNZ.

    If you are worried about your children’s future in a country in the mid stage of White genocide. Just change your name to a common Spanish one and the kids will be affirmative action aristocrats from birth.

    It wasn’t White women and non Whites who

    1issued the first affirmative action presidential executive order March 1961,

    2 passed the civil rights for all but Whites laws, and the 1968 affirmative action law

    3 made the rulings in Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber. Thus making it possible for White men employers to legally discriminate against other White men.

    It was White men who were presidents Vice Presidents Senators Congress critters and Supreme Court judges.

    White men did it to their fellow White men.

    The all White man boards Presidents Vice Presidents and administrators and workers for the Ford , Rockefeller Carnegie and other great foundations who invented the feminazi cheap labor movement is a story for another day.

  76. @Steve Sailer
    @Che Blutarsky

    I ran over a baby javelina wild pig with a station wagon going 45 mph in Big Bend National Park in 1977. I came back to put it out of its misery, but it had gotten up and trotted off into the brush.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    You are a BAD man.

    First you let your Cocker Spaniel bite your friends. Then you run over a baby pig. Finally, you allow a predatory bird to terrify a poor rabbit.

    You should never be trusted in the presence of animals — which leads one to wonder why you are trusted to be here with us.

  77. Tomcats fight more when prowling at night, but around the house their behavior isn’t all that different from the female of the species.

    That’s because they’re castrated. You would not want an intact tom in your house. But outside, they’re very entertaining and fun to be around.

  78. @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, it is just a small step for mankind to have children neutered like pets.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Paperback Writer

    Sir, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

  79. @R.G. Camara
    I've long thought this as well.

    Most humans in history lived amongst animals they raised. Even upper middle class folks had chickens or a cow for milk. And the muscular landed Aristocracies throughout history not only made sure their lads knew about horses (better to ride them) but often prided themselves on having their underlings raise the best livestock (e.g. it was fashionable amongst some of the WASP stock to breed a new type of species and name it).

    About the only exceptions have been Jews since the diaspora, who not only loathed farm work as beneath them, but their dietary laws meant an aversion to much of the livestock useful for feeding or commercial purposes. Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the "clever" Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay. Once they became moneylenders to goyim, any Jewish talent at farming was largely destroyed.

    It was only the idle city rich and the Jewish moneylenders who could engage in fantasies where the sexes acted equally and there were no real differences. Because they never engaged with animals.

    Replies: @Old Prude, @Paperback Writer

    Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the “clever” Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay

    Where are these? I would like to read them. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Lucia Chiara
    @Paperback Writer

    Soltzenitzyn's "Two Hundred Years Together" (a very fair and detailed overview of Jews in Russia) describes what happened when 19th century Czars gave Jews large tracts of rich Ukranian farmland at very advantageous terms, providing them with every possible support, in an attempt to get them away from their traditional (exploitive) ways of living. The result was exactly as @R.G Camera describes.
    There's no "official" English translation of this book, but a web search should yield links to various online PDFs of the work you can read

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  80. TWS says:

    Steve just because you can’t tell the difference between a male or female dog doesn’t mean it’s not obvious to anyone who looks. Perhaps reading the breed standards would be more helpful for you.

    The twenty pound average difference in dogs that top out around eighty pounds is huge. You simply can’t be that far on the spectrum that you cannot distinguish A male bullmastiff from female just as an example.

    You keep asserting there isn’t much difference with nothing to base that on other than your own power of observation. Since you’ve failed to identify hundreds of Tiny Duck sock puppets I figure if the subject doesn’t really interest you, you are less discerning. I’m going to assume pets don’t interest you much and you couldn’t tell if you were bitten by a East German working GSD or an American bred show GSD.

    Although trust me, you would feel the difference.

  81. @Che Blutarsky
    @AnotherDad

    Your thesis here most likely has some validity, Steve. Coming from someone who in my youth tried to break up several boar fights, the current conventional wisdom can only be seen as non-serious.

    By the way, some tips about breaking up boar fights: Don't even try it. It's very dangerous, plus your chances of success are pretty much zero. The only way to succeed is to try to slide a fence panel between them. Also, don't bother whacking a boar in the skull with a fence post since they won't even feel it. It is a good way to teach yourself what your own limitations are.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @fnn

    Yeah we kept some heritage breeds the boars were my least favorite creature on the farm including rats.

  82. Aren’t the sex differences between men and women obvious enough?

  83. @Anon55uu
    Unfortunately some male cattle are just wasted as they are not needed in the dairy trade. The practice around this has become a significant piece of evidence used by the anti dairy cause. It is a particular problem in the UK, where past bad PR has made veal very difficult to sell. In other countries it is much more popular.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

    Replies: @TWS

    Why raise a steer except to eat it?

  84. Anonymous[147] • Disclaimer says:

    When I was a kid, I used to spend summer vacations on the old family ranch and learned a lot about life by working with animals. We bred dogs, horses and cattle and had prize breeders whose semen we sold to other breeders.
    Alas, it was not uncommon for a stud animal to be unable to perform and thus had to be stimulated manually. This, for you iSteve bestiality fans, was in no way erotic and was rather gross. It was a job I had to assist in and eventually was assigned as a regular chore, at least for horses and dogs, but not the bulls as they were considered too dangerous for all but experts to handle. Stimulating the stallions required the use of sponges and hot water and could take as long as half an hour, but the ejaculate was sold for, depending on the animal, between $500 and $1,000. Breeding male dogs had to be digitally stimulated in a very specific way but didn’t take as long. Depending on the animal, their ejaculate might sell for more than that of a horse. Bull semen was the most valuable, of course, because ranch income was dependent on the number, size and quality of the beef and dairy cattle it processed.
    I also assisted in inserting the extracted semen into the breeding female, something I had to learn to do without tossing my cookies.
    When it came time to give birth, often the mother would need assistance and the offspring, which would only be partially expelled, had to be pulled all the way out by hand.
    I discovered from helping with this process that sex is not really “sexy,” but actually rather gross , and its purpose is to produce offspring. I also learned that, without a doubt, like breeds like, and that both physical and “personality” characteristics were transmitted from parent to offspring and that if you wanted a certain characteristic in your animal line, you had to breed for it. The idea that random animals would produce the stock you wanted was ridiculous. And if you had a prize breeding female, you did not let her mate with random males but only with chosen sires.
    Anyone dealing with animals in this way couldn’t help but think about these things as applied to humans. I’m sure people throughout history did so, at least up until recent times.
    As an aside, Camille Paglia had some interesting things to say about the invention of glamor and making sex erotic in Sexual Personae, as part of the creation of civilization and distancing the human from the natural world.

  85. @photondancer
    @vhrm

    "the view of the proper role of women on some of the Right, including the alt-right, is more fainting couch than hardy farm wife "

    Dear lord, yes. To the point where, a few weeks ago, several posters were vociferously opposing women doing sport or physical activity because it somehow made them bad mothers. Even though healthy, fit women are more fertile, survive pregnancy and childbirth better and have bigger, healthier babies. I can only presume that these people feel threatened by any woman who's not a feeble wreck. Their ideal woman is modelled on queen ants, I think. Immured in a chamber, immobile and doing nothing but popping out babies.

    Replies: @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Bill P

    That’s a hoot.

    I was one of the commenters opposing women in men’s contact sports. You seem to interpret that as a preference for weak women, but that’s just not the case. I like them strong and shapely, like Lucy Lawless.

    The problem with contact sports for women is that they get hurt often because they aren’t built for them. Their tendons are far more elastic, which leads to a much higher likelihood of overextension and the like. Women get knee injuries playing soccer at higher rates than men playing football. I also don’t think they fit women’s psychological profile as well. I’m all for women in track and field, swimming, tennis, volleyball, skiing, cycling, etc. But anything that requires aggressive physical contact just seems unnatural and harmful when women do it. If those sports were really so natural for normal women, they wouldn’t be so full of lesbians.

    BTW, I think there should be limits for men, too. MMA rubs me the wrong way. I won’t let my sons do that, even though they’re strong boys (they’ve got strong mothers).

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Bill P

    "they wouldn’t be so full of lesbians"

    Citation needed. Something better than naming one or two self-proclaimed lesbians.

    I don't recall contact sport being specifically called out in the prior discussion; it started with competitive sport and segued into any athletic/sports activity. By 'opposing' contact sport do you mean you support not letting women do it at all or merely advising them of the consequences you've listed?

    Replies: @Bill P

  86. @JR Ewing
    @Bill P

    It's fairly easy to distinguish fixed male cats from females, too.

    Neutered males will have two "dots" under the tail, one is the anus and the other is where the scrotum used to be. The back legs are very distinguishable from the hindquarters.

    Female cats will have a fairly visible anus but then everything below is usually more blended together with less distinguishable hindquarters relative to the legs, very similar to human female anatomy where the butt often just kind of merges with the back of the legs. It's even more "blended" on female cats because everything is covered in fur and "fluffy" compared to males.

    All that being said, I have cows and chickens on my farm and the sex differences are indeed very prominent compared to house pets.

    Replies: @Bill P

    Yeah, I can tell because I’ve had a cat for most of my life (I don’t like living with rats). But the difference with intact toms is really obvious. Their faces are much broader and they are built differently. Neutered males actually get bigger, but they have a neuter look with a narrower face and less rugged physique.

    I have a friend with a farm nearby, and I take my kids there to play every couple weeks or so. The goats really display sexual dimorphism. The males are always butting each other and trying to mount anything they can, while the females are always leading their kids around.

    Children seem to pick up on it very quickly and intuitively understand sex differences when exposed to farm animals. I think Steve is right. Having only neutered pets limits kids’ understanding of the natural world.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Bill P

    People seem to understand a lot of things better if they have time in the countryside, away from the city. Life is pretty obvious out here. ("Here" for me is just an exurb-with-farmland outside the NYC monstroCITY.)

    Cities, where apparently most humans live now, are amazing human constructions, but by necessity they cut out things like wild and farm animal characteristics. They are artificial. I still laugh when I think of a natural, organic foods shopper who lives in a damned city. It's hilarious.

    Note that in the US, the geographic divide between "conservatives" and "liberals," -- "right" and "left," in other words -- is very clearly delineated as country vs. city, rural vs. urban. This is not a coincidence.

    Speaking with all due prejudice, life is much clearer and better out here. Urban environments are unnatural and unhealthy, and they give rise to all the perversions and misunderstandings we here lament over and over ad nauseam.

    Ad nauseam.

    Replies: @Sollipsist, @Sollipsist

    , @JR Ewing
    @Bill P

    Speaking of cats’ faces, that reminds me of a Facebook game a couple of years ago where the player had to guess the sex of the cat based on its face alone. Amazingly (or not so amazingly) it was fairly easy to guess right every time. There really is a noticeable difference between males and females, in some instances extremely noticeable.

    Replies: @Ralph L

  87. @Bill P
    @JR Ewing

    Yeah, I can tell because I've had a cat for most of my life (I don't like living with rats). But the difference with intact toms is really obvious. Their faces are much broader and they are built differently. Neutered males actually get bigger, but they have a neuter look with a narrower face and less rugged physique.

    I have a friend with a farm nearby, and I take my kids there to play every couple weeks or so. The goats really display sexual dimorphism. The males are always butting each other and trying to mount anything they can, while the females are always leading their kids around.

    Children seem to pick up on it very quickly and intuitively understand sex differences when exposed to farm animals. I think Steve is right. Having only neutered pets limits kids' understanding of the natural world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

    People seem to understand a lot of things better if they have time in the countryside, away from the city. Life is pretty obvious out here. (“Here” for me is just an exurb-with-farmland outside the NYC monstroCITY.)

    Cities, where apparently most humans live now, are amazing human constructions, but by necessity they cut out things like wild and farm animal characteristics. They are artificial. I still laugh when I think of a natural, organic foods shopper who lives in a damned city. It’s hilarious.

    Note that in the US, the geographic divide between “conservatives” and “liberals,” — “right” and “left,” in other words — is very clearly delineated as country vs. city, rural vs. urban. This is not a coincidence.

    Speaking with all due prejudice, life is much clearer and better out here. Urban environments are unnatural and unhealthy, and they give rise to all the perversions and misunderstandings we here lament over and over ad nauseam.

    Ad nauseam.

    • Agree: Adam Smith, Sollipsist
    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    @Buzz Mohawk

    100% true. You can even go farther and say that the suburbs can offer a small glimpse of how life should be, and that may be part of the reason that suburbs became an object of derision among cosmopolitans and academics during the latter half of the 20th Century.

    Not to the same extent that actual rural areas were deprecated, but maybe more necessary because so many kids were coming from the suburbs and needed to be conditioned against them. The exploitation of youthful restlessness and rebelliousness has been a gold mine for anyone wanting to turn kids against any aspect of healthy traditional life.

    , @Sollipsist
    @Buzz Mohawk

    As a teenager in a small town in the country, I hated it and couldn't wait to become more urban. It was all just contempt of the familiar, adolescent restlessness and rebellion, the usual stuff.

    But I had plenty of encouragement in my hate. Urbanites, cosmopolitans, academics... like sexual predators, they were all so ready to sympathize and exploit that adolescent phase to turn it into a permanent worldview.

    Luckily, I actually moved to a city and got to experience the reality firsthand -- and not in some gated community, commuting to and from white-collar jobs and spending off hours in the arts district. I got to work and live in the real city, and travel to other cities to work in their real areas.

    No doubt in my mind that the country is where to be, especially for kids. Too bad that media technology has made it so much more difficult to get "Far from the madding crowd's ignoble strife..."

  88. @Cortes
    @Buzz Mohawk

    During one of the stages of the Conquest, in talks with local leaders (?Tlaxcalans?), Cortés got a soldier to walk past leading a mare in heat while he threatened the bigwigs with unleashing the full might of Spain including the wrath of the stallion going wild beside them. As told by Bernal Diaz del Castillo.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    That is very interesting. Thank you.

    I think there is a lot of historical information regarding that time in Mexican/Conquistador history that most people like me never have been exposed to. Just recently, my Bing page had a picture like this (after the “MORE” tag)

    [MORE]

    Apparently, the Spanish/Catholic conquerers built a cathedral right on top of an Aztec pyramid. That is what Jews call chutzpah!

    But people like me know little or nothing about this history, even though it is very real and must have been very tragic for the people who were conquered.

    I judge from your name, Cortes, that you are much closer to this subject than I am. I simply thank you for your interesting reply.

  89. @Magylson
    @Steve Sailer

    Your dad was a pirate?

    Replies: @Ralph L

    I took it to mean Sailer Sr got tired of hearing it, not that Sr abandoned the rest of the family to fly free with Tweety.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Ralph L

    We had a canary when we were Orange County contemporaries of Steve and his Lockheed father. Our black cat, "Cutie," constantly stalked our canary from outside the cage.

    The bird never had a name. That's awful, I know.

    When my father's promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

    House cats outrank house birds.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Reg Cæsar

  90. @Ralph L
    @Magylson

    I took it to mean Sailer Sr got tired of hearing it, not that Sr abandoned the rest of the family to fly free with Tweety.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    We had a canary when we were Orange County contemporaries of Steve and his Lockheed father. Our black cat, “Cutie,” constantly stalked our canary from outside the cage.

    The bird never had a name. That’s awful, I know.

    When my father’s promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

    House cats outrank house birds.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Buzz Mohawk

    When we were in Orange County, our Siamese kittens kept putting holes in the backs of our pet turtles until they died. The cat who survived loved apples, bananas, grapes, corn, melon juice (pulp made him puke), and killing the birds at our neighbor's feeder, despite a bell on his collar. Mom picked a crab apart for him on his birthday every year.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    When my father’s promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

     

    "Death Cab for Canary"? Were there Cornishmen nearby, by any chance? Mines?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKXsrWrmbAg
  91. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Ralph L

    We had a canary when we were Orange County contemporaries of Steve and his Lockheed father. Our black cat, "Cutie," constantly stalked our canary from outside the cage.

    The bird never had a name. That's awful, I know.

    When my father's promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

    House cats outrank house birds.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Reg Cæsar

    When we were in Orange County, our Siamese kittens kept putting holes in the backs of our pet turtles until they died. The cat who survived loved apples, bananas, grapes, corn, melon juice (pulp made him puke), and killing the birds at our neighbor’s feeder, despite a bell on his collar. Mom picked a crab apart for him on his birthday every year.

  92. The sex differences among dogs are not huge: People who are into dogs have opinions on what those differences are, but there are relatively few stereotypes among the general public. Tomcats fight more when prowling at night, but around the house their behavior isn’t all that different from the female of the species.

    I’m scratching my head wondering how an otherwise apparently intelligent man could be so ignorant as to write the above.

    Then I recalled the pet history that he shared:

    five parakeets in a row

    THIS is why you should never try to raise a child in California.

  93. @Buzz Mohawk

    The sex differences among dogs are not huge...
     
    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered) dog and there is a female in heat (not spayed) anywhere nearby. All hell breaks loose. Frankly, it is a good lesson in nature and sex if you are lucky enough to witness it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Cortes, @Stan D Mute

    All of that changes when you have a male (not neutered)

    And there’s the crux of the biscuit. The overwhelming majority of (white) men today are neutered (not to mention the mania for castrations for dogs & cats)…

  94. @Bill P
    @JR Ewing

    Yeah, I can tell because I've had a cat for most of my life (I don't like living with rats). But the difference with intact toms is really obvious. Their faces are much broader and they are built differently. Neutered males actually get bigger, but they have a neuter look with a narrower face and less rugged physique.

    I have a friend with a farm nearby, and I take my kids there to play every couple weeks or so. The goats really display sexual dimorphism. The males are always butting each other and trying to mount anything they can, while the females are always leading their kids around.

    Children seem to pick up on it very quickly and intuitively understand sex differences when exposed to farm animals. I think Steve is right. Having only neutered pets limits kids' understanding of the natural world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

    Speaking of cats’ faces, that reminds me of a Facebook game a couple of years ago where the player had to guess the sex of the cat based on its face alone. Amazingly (or not so amazingly) it was fairly easy to guess right every time. There really is a noticeable difference between males and females, in some instances extremely noticeable.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @JR Ewing

    An adult tom's head will narrow after he's gone to the vet to get tutored.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  95. @AnotherDad
    As far removed as we are from nature, i still have to say that this "gender is socially constructed" stuff --pretty much everything the left/feminists/blank-slaters say about sex--is just stone cold stupid.

    I really don't see how anyone who gets through high school can believe that nonsense. Humans are not the most sexually dimorphic species. But we're mid-range. Our sexual dimorphism--form, capabilities and behavior--is all around us, pretty much every day of our lives.

    This is in contrast to the "race does not exist" nonsense. Once you see any sort of data, the nonsense is obvious. But most people in the world, don't have racial differences thrust in their face everyday. Even in America where we have a pretty dramatic white/black racial differences, most people live in relatively segregated neighborhoods, which are in any case class sorted so even with "diversity" differences are muted--likewise at work, occupation and professional sorting. Unless you live in a mixed area--like the old small town South--or were in colonial administration or physically involved in world trade, most people do not really have the direct contact in sufficient quantity to have independent certainty. So blank-slate lies are quasi-believable to people ... when the data is hidden and always explained away.

    I just don't see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about "social construction" when it comes to sex. It's just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things "ought" to be. Positively Orwellian.

    Replies: @Adam Smith, @OilcanFloyd

    I just don’t see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about “social construction” when it comes to sex. It’s just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things “ought” to be. Positively Orwellian.

    Most of the woke would be nazis tomorrow if nazis were in charge.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @OilcanFloyd


    Most of the woke would be nazis tomorrow if nazis were in charge.
     
    They're already Nazis (violent, identity obsessed totalitarian ideologues) right now.
  96. @AndrewR
    @photondancer

    I probably am not speaking for everyone you're referring to, but I think there is a BIG difference between being physically active and playing competitive sports. I eagerly welcome "trans women" destroying women's sports. Women have no business competing athletically. But of course I think women should be active and stay fit. You have apparently blurred these things in your mind.

    Replies: @photondancer

    Nope. It was the posters here who were blurring them. And there is no good reason to oppose womens competitive sport.

  97. @Bill P
    @photondancer

    That's a hoot.

    I was one of the commenters opposing women in men's contact sports. You seem to interpret that as a preference for weak women, but that's just not the case. I like them strong and shapely, like Lucy Lawless.

    The problem with contact sports for women is that they get hurt often because they aren't built for them. Their tendons are far more elastic, which leads to a much higher likelihood of overextension and the like. Women get knee injuries playing soccer at higher rates than men playing football. I also don't think they fit women's psychological profile as well. I'm all for women in track and field, swimming, tennis, volleyball, skiing, cycling, etc. But anything that requires aggressive physical contact just seems unnatural and harmful when women do it. If those sports were really so natural for normal women, they wouldn't be so full of lesbians.

    BTW, I think there should be limits for men, too. MMA rubs me the wrong way. I won't let my sons do that, even though they're strong boys (they've got strong mothers).

    Replies: @photondancer

    “they wouldn’t be so full of lesbians”

    Citation needed. Something better than naming one or two self-proclaimed lesbians.

    I don’t recall contact sport being specifically called out in the prior discussion; it started with competitive sport and segued into any athletic/sports activity. By ‘opposing’ contact sport do you mean you support not letting women do it at all or merely advising them of the consequences you’ve listed?

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @photondancer

    You want a citation from me for saying that women's soccer and basketball are full of lesbians? Get real. You can look it up yourself in less than a minute.

    If women want to go out and hurt each other on the pitch/court while playing an embarrassingly bad version of men's team sports who am I to stop them?

    But don't you think it's kind of unfair to force sports equality in college when people have so much more interest in the male version? Also, why encourage parents to put their daughters in sports that are highly likely to give them permanent joint damage?

    Most people still do not consciously want to feminize their sons, so why is it acceptable to masculinize daughters? If your daughter is a promising athlete there are plenty of sports that don't involve body checking, slide tackling and elbows to the face. I played soccer as a teenager at state championship level (we ended up third place). I've still got scars on my legs to this day. It can be a pretty nasty game, and I certainly wouldn't encourage a daughter to play it. Most of the rest of the world agrees with me on that. I don't know what's wrong with my country sometimes.

    Replies: @anon

  98. @JR Ewing
    @Bill P

    Speaking of cats’ faces, that reminds me of a Facebook game a couple of years ago where the player had to guess the sex of the cat based on its face alone. Amazingly (or not so amazingly) it was fairly easy to guess right every time. There really is a noticeable difference between males and females, in some instances extremely noticeable.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    An adult tom’s head will narrow after he’s gone to the vet to get tutored.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Ralph L

    Also neutered.

  99. @OilcanFloyd
    @AnotherDad


    I just don’t see how anyone can believe any of the nonsense about “social construction” when it comes to sex. It’s just some sort of weird compliance with the narrative, or some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment fantasy or devotional paean to how things “ought” to be. Positively Orwellian.
     
    Most of the woke would be nazis tomorrow if nazis were in charge.

    Replies: @vhrm

    Most of the woke would be nazis tomorrow if nazis were in charge.

    They’re already Nazis (violent, identity obsessed totalitarian ideologues) right now.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    We let them fly all over the house, which had its risks.

    First parakeet, Tweeter I, lived 8 years, including 2 years after surgery at age 6 to remove a large abdominal tumor.

    Tweeter II was kind of a dud and was dead in the bottom of his cage after 1 year.

    Tweeter III was very lively and I believe flew out the door after 4 years.

    Tweeter IV was very gregarious and my dad walked out the door with him on his shoulder after 1 year.

    Tweeter V was Tweeter II all over again.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @Magylson, @jon, @Anonymous, @Cortes

    All those Tweeters and no mention of Woofers: what was the sound quality like?

    (Our dogs, well bitches, were the “Pancha” series).

  101. Sex Differences in Farm Animals vs. Pets

    What about sex between farm animals and pets? Is that a thing? Or do farmhands (ptx) hog all the fun?

  102. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Ralph L

    We had a canary when we were Orange County contemporaries of Steve and his Lockheed father. Our black cat, "Cutie," constantly stalked our canary from outside the cage.

    The bird never had a name. That's awful, I know.

    When my father's promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

    House cats outrank house birds.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Reg Cæsar

    When my father’s promotion took us away from California (thank God) we took Cutie with us, but I have no idea what happened to that canary.

    “Death Cab for Canary”? Were there Cornishmen nearby, by any chance? Mines?

  103. @jon
    @Steve Sailer


    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V
     
    Growing up, a neighbor girl had a cat named 'Crystal Princess', it got ran over, and was quickly replaced by 'Crystal Princess II', which ran off one day and was never seen again, being replaced by 'Crystal Princess III'.

    I lost touch with the family, so I have no idea how many sequels there were. I like to think she has a daughter who is giving a big ol' hug to 'Crystal Princess' XX right now.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

    Tweeter I
    Tweeter II
    Tweeter III
    Tweeter IV
    Tweeter V

    I’d say the Sailer family has some royalties coming from Jack Dorsey.

  104. @Paperback Writer
    @R.G. Camara


    Plus there are numerous hilarious accounts of Christians who tried to force Jews to give up usury and embrace farming by mandate, only for the “clever” Jews to be utterly inept, clumsy, and clueless at simple things like plowing, plucking weeds, and baling hay
     
    Where are these? I would like to read them. Thanks.

    Replies: @Lucia Chiara

    Soltzenitzyn’s “Two Hundred Years Together” (a very fair and detailed overview of Jews in Russia) describes what happened when 19th century Czars gave Jews large tracts of rich Ukranian farmland at very advantageous terms, providing them with every possible support, in an attempt to get them away from their traditional (exploitive) ways of living. The result was exactly as @R.G Camera describes.
    There’s no “official” English translation of this book, but a web search should yield links to various online PDFs of the work you can read

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Lucia Chiara

    The overwhelming majority of such Jews weren't usurers, they were small tradesmen. Have you ever farmed, or done something you had no training in? Tell us how that went. Also please give us an example of any group of people, not individuals or ideologues, but group of people who willingly became peasants. Thanks.

  105. @photondancer
    @Bill P

    "they wouldn’t be so full of lesbians"

    Citation needed. Something better than naming one or two self-proclaimed lesbians.

    I don't recall contact sport being specifically called out in the prior discussion; it started with competitive sport and segued into any athletic/sports activity. By 'opposing' contact sport do you mean you support not letting women do it at all or merely advising them of the consequences you've listed?

    Replies: @Bill P

    You want a citation from me for saying that women’s soccer and basketball are full of lesbians? Get real. You can look it up yourself in less than a minute.

    If women want to go out and hurt each other on the pitch/court while playing an embarrassingly bad version of men’s team sports who am I to stop them?

    But don’t you think it’s kind of unfair to force sports equality in college when people have so much more interest in the male version? Also, why encourage parents to put their daughters in sports that are highly likely to give them permanent joint damage?

    Most people still do not consciously want to feminize their sons, so why is it acceptable to masculinize daughters? If your daughter is a promising athlete there are plenty of sports that don’t involve body checking, slide tackling and elbows to the face. I played soccer as a teenager at state championship level (we ended up third place). I’ve still got scars on my legs to this day. It can be a pretty nasty game, and I certainly wouldn’t encourage a daughter to play it. Most of the rest of the world agrees with me on that. I don’t know what’s wrong with my country sometimes.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @anon
    @Bill P

    Maybe photondancer is all about femininity. Sorta like Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/be/d0/cbbed009c1ca58290bfbca740a60db45.jpg

  106. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Bill P

    People seem to understand a lot of things better if they have time in the countryside, away from the city. Life is pretty obvious out here. ("Here" for me is just an exurb-with-farmland outside the NYC monstroCITY.)

    Cities, where apparently most humans live now, are amazing human constructions, but by necessity they cut out things like wild and farm animal characteristics. They are artificial. I still laugh when I think of a natural, organic foods shopper who lives in a damned city. It's hilarious.

    Note that in the US, the geographic divide between "conservatives" and "liberals," -- "right" and "left," in other words -- is very clearly delineated as country vs. city, rural vs. urban. This is not a coincidence.

    Speaking with all due prejudice, life is much clearer and better out here. Urban environments are unnatural and unhealthy, and they give rise to all the perversions and misunderstandings we here lament over and over ad nauseam.

    Ad nauseam.

    Replies: @Sollipsist, @Sollipsist

    100% true. You can even go farther and say that the suburbs can offer a small glimpse of how life should be, and that may be part of the reason that suburbs became an object of derision among cosmopolitans and academics during the latter half of the 20th Century.

    Not to the same extent that actual rural areas were deprecated, but maybe more necessary because so many kids were coming from the suburbs and needed to be conditioned against them. The exploitation of youthful restlessness and rebelliousness has been a gold mine for anyone wanting to turn kids against any aspect of healthy traditional life.

  107. @Lucia Chiara
    @Paperback Writer

    Soltzenitzyn's "Two Hundred Years Together" (a very fair and detailed overview of Jews in Russia) describes what happened when 19th century Czars gave Jews large tracts of rich Ukranian farmland at very advantageous terms, providing them with every possible support, in an attempt to get them away from their traditional (exploitive) ways of living. The result was exactly as @R.G Camera describes.
    There's no "official" English translation of this book, but a web search should yield links to various online PDFs of the work you can read

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    The overwhelming majority of such Jews weren’t usurers, they were small tradesmen. Have you ever farmed, or done something you had no training in? Tell us how that went. Also please give us an example of any group of people, not individuals or ideologues, but group of people who willingly became peasants. Thanks.

    • Agree: Dissident
  108. @Ralph L
    @JR Ewing

    An adult tom's head will narrow after he's gone to the vet to get tutored.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    Also neutered.

  109. @Bill P
    @photondancer

    You want a citation from me for saying that women's soccer and basketball are full of lesbians? Get real. You can look it up yourself in less than a minute.

    If women want to go out and hurt each other on the pitch/court while playing an embarrassingly bad version of men's team sports who am I to stop them?

    But don't you think it's kind of unfair to force sports equality in college when people have so much more interest in the male version? Also, why encourage parents to put their daughters in sports that are highly likely to give them permanent joint damage?

    Most people still do not consciously want to feminize their sons, so why is it acceptable to masculinize daughters? If your daughter is a promising athlete there are plenty of sports that don't involve body checking, slide tackling and elbows to the face. I played soccer as a teenager at state championship level (we ended up third place). I've still got scars on my legs to this day. It can be a pretty nasty game, and I certainly wouldn't encourage a daughter to play it. Most of the rest of the world agrees with me on that. I don't know what's wrong with my country sometimes.

    Replies: @anon

    Maybe photondancer is all about femininity. Sorta like Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird.

  110. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Bill P

    People seem to understand a lot of things better if they have time in the countryside, away from the city. Life is pretty obvious out here. ("Here" for me is just an exurb-with-farmland outside the NYC monstroCITY.)

    Cities, where apparently most humans live now, are amazing human constructions, but by necessity they cut out things like wild and farm animal characteristics. They are artificial. I still laugh when I think of a natural, organic foods shopper who lives in a damned city. It's hilarious.

    Note that in the US, the geographic divide between "conservatives" and "liberals," -- "right" and "left," in other words -- is very clearly delineated as country vs. city, rural vs. urban. This is not a coincidence.

    Speaking with all due prejudice, life is much clearer and better out here. Urban environments are unnatural and unhealthy, and they give rise to all the perversions and misunderstandings we here lament over and over ad nauseam.

    Ad nauseam.

    Replies: @Sollipsist, @Sollipsist

    As a teenager in a small town in the country, I hated it and couldn’t wait to become more urban. It was all just contempt of the familiar, adolescent restlessness and rebellion, the usual stuff.

    But I had plenty of encouragement in my hate. Urbanites, cosmopolitans, academics… like sexual predators, they were all so ready to sympathize and exploit that adolescent phase to turn it into a permanent worldview.

    Luckily, I actually moved to a city and got to experience the reality firsthand — and not in some gated community, commuting to and from white-collar jobs and spending off hours in the arts district. I got to work and live in the real city, and travel to other cities to work in their real areas.

    No doubt in my mind that the country is where to be, especially for kids. Too bad that media technology has made it so much more difficult to get “Far from the madding crowd’s ignoble strife…”

  111. fnn says:
    @Che Blutarsky
    @AnotherDad

    Your thesis here most likely has some validity, Steve. Coming from someone who in my youth tried to break up several boar fights, the current conventional wisdom can only be seen as non-serious.

    By the way, some tips about breaking up boar fights: Don't even try it. It's very dangerous, plus your chances of success are pretty much zero. The only way to succeed is to try to slide a fence panel between them. Also, don't bother whacking a boar in the skull with a fence post since they won't even feel it. It is a good way to teach yourself what your own limitations are.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @fnn

    The major occupation of Pit Bulls for many years was not pit fighting but “catch dog” (i.e., holding on to the cheek of a hog so Farmer Jones could do whatever had to be done). I think most catch dogs are now employed in hunting feral hogs. The hounds find them, the catch dog pins them and waits for the hunter to kill the hogs with a large knife.

    That reminds me of my late alcoholic stepfather. One day (for no particular reason) he told me about some guy he met (probably while drinking) who owned an auto junk yard in a black neighborhood. The guy was complaining about how the dogs guarding his junkyard kept getting shot. This was many years ago, but obviously there was a market for dogs that attack savagely and without warning in the ghetto. Maybe not for junkyards, but for semi-clandestine businesses that didn’t care much about insurance and lawsuits. Thus, the migration of game-bred Pit Bulls from the rural South to the urban North.

  112. @Old Prude
    @International Jew

    As far as appearances, stallions and mare are only told apart by looking at the naughty bits. As far as personality and behavior, stallions are not to be trifled with by the inexperienced. As far as intelligence? My mare likes Kenny Rogers. How smart can she be?

    Replies: @International Jew

    And then there was Mr. Ed.

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