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From the New York Times:

2nd Official Weighs Filing Complaint Over Trump’s Ukraine Dealings

A second intelligence official alarmed by President Trump’s attempts to pressure Ukraine is considering filing his own formal complaint.

The official, who corroborated the allegations of the original whistle-blower, has more direct information about the events.
1h ago209 comments

And if you can’t trust nameless, faceless members of the intelligence community, you must hate democracy.

 
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  1. Whiskey says: • Website

    So the intel community has gone to war to remove Trump. Good to know. Glad to see our intel community putting all their eggs in Nancy Pelosi’s and Adam Schiff’s basket.

    Rashida Tlaib is saying she will have the US Marshalls arrest all Trump Cabinet members. Schiff and Maxine Waters are talking about impeaching Pompeo, Barr, Pence along with Trump. So Nancy can be President. Yeah, President Nancy.

    Trump damn well better get off the ball and start the good times defense spending rolling. No one wants to stop the party, and the Navy could use five new aircraft carrier groups come to think of it, with fat juicy defense contracts right in certain districts and states. Trump needs to hug his generals and admirals, and start their pensions rolling with consulting contracts for procurement. Sure as shooting, the Dems will cancel it all to pay for illegal health care and get Whitey programs. I’m sure Big Chief Warren and Hillary! have final solutions to the White Man Question.

    • Agree: jim jones
  2. bomag says:

    I’m not keeping up;

    what are the Democrats defending today?

    a) democracy
    b) the constitution
    c) the children
    d) some unnamed, unexplained principle that makes sense to them, but nobody else, so just go along.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  3. Kyle says:

    There is a line of demarcation between people who are disturbed by trumps actions, and those wondering why everyone else is so disturbed. I’m really trying to see the other side of this, because the left is whipped up into such a rapid frenzy that there must be something to it. Could someone explain what trump did that was illegal, treasonous, and immoral? Digging up dirt on a political rival just doesn’t seem all that bad. The most humiliating thing is that it confirms trump watches hannity and believes all of his silly conspiracy theories. In fact wasn’t candidate trump investigated by the Obama administration with the help of foreign intelligence agencies? It’s standard procedure and it isn’t an offense, let alone and impeachable one. This is why republicans were stupid to vote on impeaching Clinton. They opened Pandora’s box.

  4. guest says:

    Anonymous human mulling over filing a complaint maybe? That certainly sounds like “news.”

  5. They’ve given him all the false flag pretenses he needs, but he still won’t go to war. Since presidents don’t ride around in convertibles anymore, this is the best they can do.

  6. anon[603] • Disclaimer says:

    • LOL: bomag
  7. Kylie says:
    @bomag

    Their utterly irrational hatred of Trump.

    • Replies: @Woodsie
    , @Desiderius
  8. J.Ross says:

    Can we please have the cheltingham wainscotting now? Or are we to just continue to have half of the cheltingham wainscotting, with one side playing and the other bravely accepting losses but not fighting back?

    • Replies: @bomag
  9. This is why republicans were stupid to vote on impeaching Clinton. They opened Pandora’s box.

    Instead of a legal case of Clinton’s perjury, they should have made a political case of Juanita Broaddrick’s perjury.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @pyrrhus
  10. jon says:
    @Kyle

    Could someone explain what trump did that was illegal, treasonous, and immoral?

    This is the top comment on the NYT article (923 votes when I posted this).

    Oh please oh please let this be the beginning to the end of this unbelievable nightmare

    So it seems the illegal, treasonous, and immoral thing was beating Hillary, and a significant chunk of the US just isn’t going to stand for it anymore.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  11. Anon[143] • Disclaimer says:

    Replace CIA.

    New agents. All right wing. One country for each branch. Branches not to know one another. Compartmentaliztion. No Ivys. Would work.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  12. Spud Boy says:

    If what Trump did is OK, doesn’t that imply that Obama acted within his power to investigate candidate Trump during his campaign?

  13. Precious says:
    @Kyle

    This is why republicans were stupid to vote on impeaching Clinton. They opened Pandora’s box.

    It is just the opposite. Clinton was impossible to shame into resigning, so he got impeached, and nothing happened. The Democrats in the Senate acquitted him. Everyone now knows that even if Trump were impeached, the Republicans will acquit him.

    Trump wins if he gets impeached by claiming vindication in the Senate when they acquit him, or throw out the charges. Trump also wins if they don’t impeach him, because he will continue investigations on Biden and start bringing charges against other high profile Obama era officials.

    The corrupt agents in the intelligence community have been outmaneuvered. Their best shot was Mueller, and that failed.

  14. Ano says:

    I’m confused. Does Adam Schiff run the CIA, or is he run by the CIA?

  15. Sean says:

    These mirror image of Q Anon followers (nuts) need to be dismissed from the intelligence services like 21-year Air Force veteran decorated for his flying in Vietnam, Major and Minuteman ICBM commander Harold L. Hering was during Nixon’s presidency for asking “How can I know that an order I receive to launch my missiles came from a sane president?”. If they don’t think the President is worthy of their sworn allegiance or prefer meretricious conspiracy theorising to doing their job the way they are handsomely paid to, then they ought to have already taken voluntary retirement.

    • Agree: Precious
  16. Tucker Carlson has a brilliant commentary on this:
    “Trump refused to bow to intelligence agencies”

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Logan
  17. El Dato says:
    @jon

    Ausfailia is getting in on it:

    Victoria no secrets! Australia wants ‘full disclosure’ of Trump call. Will diplomacy survive?

    It appears that not even the distant land down under is safe from the shocking disregard for back-door diplomacy pioneered by Washington, DC. This week, borrowing a page from the US Democrat’s playbook, Australia’s opposition party demanded that the transcript of a recent phone call between Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Donald Trump be made public. It seems the opposition is worried that Morrison agreed to assist Trump with an investigation into the origins of ‘Russiagate’ – the debunked conspiracy theory that says the US president colluded with the Kremlin to win the White House. Judging by recent reports, that investigation appears to be heating up.

    I wonder whether anyone in the world will pick up when the Prez rings anymore … “Nah, let’s meet at a random bar”.

    Oh please oh please let this be the beginning to the end of this unbelievable nightmare

    Don’t worry, the train is slowly pulling into a station. I can’t distinguish the sign … no, wait it’s getting clearer….

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  18. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Precious

    “.. he will continue investigations on Biden and start bringing charges against other high profile Obama era officials.”

    What fantasies led you to vote for him in 2016?

    The puppet show is now jumping the shark.

    • Replies: @Precious
    , @Harry Baldwin
  19. El Dato says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Microsoft says!

    Iran tried to hack hundreds of politicians, journalists email accounts last month, warns Microsoft: No confirmation from Trump yet whether he asked them to do it

    I didn’t even know Microsoft is in the IT security business (more like the IT-insecurity business, right?)

    The company did not go into any detail over why it believes the Iranian government is behind the hacks beyond noting that those targeted included “prominent Iranians living outside Iran.” Presumably, it was able to identify the same pattern of hacking efforts with other accounts not directly connected with Iran and extrapolated from that.

    The timing of the announcement has come at an increasingly interesting time with impeachment proceedings against President Trump for soliciting foreign help with a political rival.

    Last night, Trump’s insistence that he had not sought a “quid pro quo” in which the Ukranian government agreed to investigations in return for US security funding and a visit to the White House was directly questioned when text messages between senior diplomats were published in which they explicitly and repeatedly indicated exactly that.

    Text messages between senior diplomats were published?

    Where?

    Assange is already in Sonderbehandlung (events cheered of The Register btw), so who did THAT?

  20. Realist says:

    The kabuki theater continues…the intrigue is palpable.

  21. @Whiskey

    “the Navy could use five new aircraft carrier groups come to think of it”

    And then they could attack Iran! It’s a win-win!

  22. @Spud Boy

    What Trump did didn’t involve the FBI, just a phone call. A major difference.

  23. @bomag

    They’re not defending, they’re attacking their favorite target:

  24. Hunsdon says:
    @El Dato

    Finally, the use of the phrase debunked conspiracy theory to refer to Russia gate.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  25. bomag says:
    @J.Ross

    …the other bravely accepting losses but not fighting back?

    Like academia,the problem is that too many gov’t agencies, CIA in this case, have become leftist political bathhouses that conservatives don’t want to join. So conservatives are scattered, working jobs in business, or running a business, thinking that they can vote in enough conservative congressmen to keep the bathhouse crews from building interment camps for deplorables, but the plan isn’t working too well.

    At least this thing exposes the CIA as a place willing to do political hatchet jobs on Democrat opponents, but I don’t know if it will change anything.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  26. @Kyle

    “the left is whipped up into such a rapid frenzy that there must be something to it. ”

    How does that logically follow? A lot of people have pretended to be outraged and many other people have whipped themselves into a frenzy. That doesn’t mean that There is something solid upon which their pretense is based.

    “In fact wasn’t candidate trump investigated by the Obama administration with the help of foreign intelligence agencies? It’s standard procedure and it isn’t an offense, let alone and impeachable one. ”

    That isn’t at all what happened, it’s what the frenzied impeachment nutjobs claim happened. Using foreign intelligence services to try to defeat a presidential candidate is a crime, and shouldn’t be regarded as “standard procedure”. Trump did no such thing, by the way.

    “This is why republicans were stupid to vote on impeaching Clinton. They opened Pandora’s box.”

    That’s about as logical as everything else you wrote. Here’s a tip for you: You aren’t going to understand what’s happening by watching TV.

  27. @Spud Boy

    “If what Trump did is OK, doesn’t that imply that Obama acted within his power to investigate candidate Trump during his campaign?”

    Did Trump have the CIA go to work compiling fake evidence that Biden paid somebody to pee on a hotel bed? There’s a big difference in asking another head of state,under the terms of a treaty , to help investigate criminal activity and setting the US intelligence agencies to work to try to destroy a candidate.

  28. @Precious

    “The Democrats in the Senate acquitted him. ”

    Actually, the republicans provided the votes needed to acquit Clinton. It was a foregone conclusion that democrats would vote to acquit. Republicans were supposed to be on the other team, but not all of them were.

    • Replies: @Precious
  29. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tim Howells

    If only President Trump were half the principled, worthy man that Mr. Carlson pretends to believe him to be.

    Another week, another Constitutional Crisis. Why is the puppet show jumping the shark? Because the Establishment grows increasingly desperate in herding enough sheep to root and vote Red v Blue in the meaningless Beltway politics, channeling and harmlessly blowing off dissent and reinforcing the notion that so much of the world and our lives must be ruled from Washington.

  30. Dr. X says:

    Why can’t Trump just order Mossad to take out the CIA???

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  31. Woodsie says:
    @Kylie

    It is not irrational. If the Ukrainian government investigates and cooperates the tar-baby touches not just the Bidens, but the Pelosis, the Romneys, the Clintons, President Obama, and, ultimately, the CIA. They are fighting for their lives.

  32. Logan says:

    One of the most fascinating aspects of this is the fact that until 3 years ago “the intelligence community” was the bugbear of leftists. That a story originated with the FBI or CIA was considered conclusive proof that it was false.

    • Replies: @Prusmc
  33. Logan says:
    @Precious

    To be fair, Trump is also impossible to shame into resigning.

    And I think that if they can get a simple majority in the Senate, they will claim that their charges have been proven true, and only thwarted by partisan GOP senators.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the election.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  34. Logan says:
    @Tim Howells

    Thanks for posting this. Those comments from “members of the intelligence agency” are fascinating (and chilling.)

    They are of course exactly what the Left decries, to some considerable extent rightly, when practiced by cops. When our in-group is attacked, we will close ranks and defend “one of us” “by whatever means necessary.”

    That sense of brotherhood and group loyalty is absolutely necessary for such organizations to function, which is why in theory ultimate control in such organizations should always be held by those who are to some extent outsiders and who can thus recognize that this in-group loyalty is always by definition in conflict with what the actual purpose of the organization is supposed to be.

    The purpose of the CIA is not to protect CIA agents. It’s supposed to be to protect the American people. Just as the purpose of the police is not to protect cops, it’s to protect the public, which in some cases means coming down like a hammer on bad (or sometimes just incompetent or unlucky) cops.

  35. @Buzz Mohawk

    Buzz Mohawk said “They’ve given him all the false flag pretenses he needs, but he still won’t go to war. Since presidents don’t ride around in convertibles anymore, this is the best they can do.

    Agreed, Buzz.

    Remember the first rule of false flags though: the patsy/scapegoat/fall-guy should be an informant for law enforcement, preferably at the highest level. That way, hard stares and stony silence will convey the message to any honest lower-level investigators who start asking real questions.
    Also, confidential informants tend to think of themselves as above the law, and so can be manipulated easily into shady situations (that would give most regular folks pause) by their “handlers.”

    To be a high-level source/informant for an intelligence agency is a certain death warrant, if anything

  36. @Buzz Mohawk

    Buzz Mohawk said “They’ve given him all the false flag pretenses he needs, but he still won’t go to war. Since presidents don’t ride around in convertibles anymore, this is the best they can do.

    Agreed, Buzz.

    Remember the first rule of false flags though: the patsy/scapegoat/fall-guy should be an informant for law enforcement, preferably at the highest level. That way, hard stares and stony silence will convey the message to any honest lower-level investigators who start asking real questions.
    Also, confidential informants tend to think of themselves as above the law, and so can be manipulated easily into shady situations (that would give most regular folks pause) by their “handlers.”

    To be a high-level source/informant for an intelligence agency is a certain death warrant, if anything

  37. Lawrence Auster made the following observation on November 19, 2011. I believe it was quite prescient:

    The two parties are not playing the same game. They play different games, under different rules. What are these different rules? The Republicans more or less follow the laws and constitutional procedures, the Democrats deliberately and consciously break them. But the Republicans, while they complain incessantly about the Democrats, never identify this underlying fact. Why? Because that would show that the system is no longer legitimate. And the function of the Republicans, as “patriotic, conservative Americans,” is to uphold the goodness and legitimacy of the system, a legitimacy which rests on the belief that everyone in American politics shares the same basic principles and loyalties. So the Republicans, as defenders of the system and its presumed basic unity, cannot expose what the Democrats are. If they exposed it, politics would be replaced by open war between two radically incompatible parties and America as we know it would come to an end.

    His comment on November 06, 2012 adds some extra emphasis:

    The Democratic Party continues to demonstrate its criminal and dictatorial nature. Former DNC chairman Howard Dean declared on television that if Obama loses Ohio, it must be because Republicans prevented Democrats from voting or because voting machines did not work. In short, Democrats are entitled to win, entitled to rule the country. Any other result must be because of fraud or voter suppression or racism, and thus is illegitimate. The only legitimate outcome is Democratic victory. This has been for a long time the Democrats’ view of American politics, but the nice, brain-dead Republicans never identify it or make the Democrats accountable for it.

    Trump has really smoked the Democrats out of their holes. They are the enemy of our Republic, not the loyal opposition. They are perfectly willing destroy the social contract rather than accept their political loss.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  38. @Anon

    Why even replace them? Just make foreign intelligence a division of the FBI or the state department. And give the much reduced organization a different name already.

    If our CIA were to disappear, the world would instantly become more peaceful.

    Has anyone tallied their official color revolution and/or “spring” body count?

    It won’t work just by simply saying “no ivys.” Gotta get rid of the Mormons who are entrenched in there too.

  39. @Whiskey

    I’d agree if you said “Border Patrol” or “National Guard” or even “Volunteer EMS/Fire Department.” How about universal carbine ownership and training, like in Switzerland? Of course, you don’t think in those terms because you think of America as a free-floating proposition, not an actual nation in its geographic redoubt. What you’re arguing for in your backhanded way is further enrichment and weaponization of Globohomo.

  40. @Harry Baldwin

    It’s not about Democrats vs Republicans. It’s the uniparty and the deep state who has been running the show since they offed JFK (if you want to go down a rabbit hole, read into the New Orleans district attorney’s office investigation, which is the main reason Cokie Roberts’ disappeared father was the lone dissenting voice on the Warren Commission) . The parties positions swap sides constantly anyway- for instance today Democrats who aren’t Bernie-affiliated are rapidly becoming fans or at least not detractors of the military industrial complex, and a few more Republicans are becoming relatively non-interventionist like Trump. To suggest that Republicans are in general remotely more honorable is to give legitimacy to the Bushie legacy of the past 35 years. Last decent Republican before Trump was Nixon, and similarly, look what they did to him.

    Reagan was a puppet who got credit for a good economy and gave people the warm fuzzies. Maybe he would have been a more principled President, but after that assassination attempt he didn’t stray much from his handlers.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  41. @Spud Boy

    Investigating a prima facie case of political graft is well within bounds; spying on a political opponent is beyond the pale. Your question belies a serious inability to discern between right and wrong.

  42. @Spud Boy

    No, because there was never any evidence of Trump “colluding with Russia” to merit an investigation. The whole thing was concocted by his enemies in the intelligence community in conjunction with the Clinton campaign, using operatives like Joseph Mifsud and Stefan Halper to try to entrap low-level Trump Campaign associates like George Papadopoulos and Carter Page into accepting info from their alleged “Russian sources” (exactly what Clinton’s herself was actually doing in conjunction with the FBI with the “Steele Dossier”). On the other hand there is plenty of evidence of this malfeasance by the FBI together with the Clinton campaign and probably the CIA (given the involvement of Mifsud and Halper) that certainly should and will be investigated.

  43. nymom says:

    I actually think these differences between the two parties started with Watergate…

    At that time, the legacy media was the only tool people had readily available to know anything that was going on in the world and the media played right along with the Democrats to help take a President down that they didn’t like. People didn’t question it as they had faith in the media, the system, the country.

    Over the years, however, people have slowly lost this faith and we are seeing the results of it today.

    Trump might not be the greatest President; but, people do believe he is a man who loves his country and in spite of his many bumbling efforts and some setbacks (mostly due to the Democrats misuse of our court system) he is seen to be generally moving in the right direction.

    So the public is not quite as gullible as we were when it went down with Nixon. That is what has really changed.

    • Agree: jim jones
  44. Muggles says:

    If Trump doesn’t get the message from these fake CIA “whistleblowers”, also known as disinformation agents, perhaps they should send him some photos of JFK waving to crowds in Dallas from that limo.

    Maybe then he will show proper respect to the Deep State and its numerous secret police agencies.

  45. @Spud Boy

    I think there’s a slight difference between asking a foreign government, in accordance with US law, for an independent investigation of wrongdoing within their jurisdiction by an elected US official (who has publicly admitted to this himself), and covertly contracting with a partisan public-relations firm for the principal aim of fabricating dirt on someone

  46. @Spud Boy

    I think there’s a slight difference between asking a foreign government, in accordance with US law, for an independent investigation of wrongdoing within their jurisdiction by an elected US official (who has publicly admitted to this himself), and covertly contracting with a partisan public-relations firm for the principal aim of fabricating dirt on someone

  47. @Kylie

    Evil rarely lacks for a rationale.

  48. @Spud Boy

    If Trump had bragged about conspiring with Putin to the Council of Foreign Relations, sure.

  49. anon[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Al Gore should have moved up to President in 1995 after Clinton was removed from office, and lot of FBI agents should have moved to Huntsville, Texas for the rest of their lives. If liberals really believed their own fables, of course.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  50. @Precious

    There are more than a few R Senators who would jump at the chance of a President Pence if they could get away with it. That’s actually the play. The ongoing coup has always been at least somewhat bi-partisan. That’s why the media’s always been so cocky.

    Trump is going after Biden because of 2016, not 2020. Biden will be lucky to make it to 2020. It’s looking like the coup was/is a Biden/McCain op. Obama was busy watching ESPN in his office.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Precious
  51. pyrrhus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Clinton gave missile guidance technology to China in return for campaign contributions…treasonous enough for most people, but Republicans ignored it.

  52. @anon

    A popular bumper sticker with rank-and-file Republicans read “Gore ’99” .

    (Do Republicans “rank and file”? Maybe that should be “common-stock Republicans”.)

  53. Art Deco says:
    @S. Anonyia

    It’s not about Democrats vs Republicans. It’s the uniparty and the deep state who has been running the show since they offed JFK (if you want to go down a rabbit hole, read into the New Orleans district attorney’s office investigation, which is the main reason Cokie Roberts’ disappeared father was the lone dissenting voice on the Warren Commission) .

    Hale Boggs did not dissent from the Warren Commission report and he certainly was not influenced by a rogue investigation conducted 3-5 years after the report was issue. He died eight years later in a plane crash and there was nothing all that mysterious about that. The investigation by the New Orleans DA’s office was a farce and it took the jurors < two hours to acquit the defendants. Since the thesis was that shadowy members of the military-industrial-intelligence complex killed the president by subcontracting the job to a collection of French Quarter homosexuals (only one of whom had ever had even a tenuous association with Lee Harvey Oswald), that they were acquitted was unsurprising.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  54. @anonymous

    If only President Trump were half the principled, worthy man that Mr. Carlson pretends to believe him to be.

    You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometime … 99.9999% of principled, worthy men would have collapsed under the relentless, ruthless pressure long ago … Donald Trump is exactly what we need right now. And in fact, Donald J. Trump must be pretty squeaky clean, given the big zero that Robert Mueller, Andrew Weissmann, et al came up with over the course of three years.

    • Replies: @Precious
  55. @anonymous

    Two uses of “jump the shark” by Anonymous[340]. You need a time-out.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  56. Precious says:
    @anonymous

    What fantasies led you to vote for him in 2016? The puppet show is now jumping the shark.

    He is building the wall.

    https://www.trumpwall.construction/

    And I am sure you will be back to either congratulate me on being right or to rub it in my face if I am wrong in November of 2020.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  57. anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle

    I’m really trying to see the other side of this, because the left is whipped up into such a rapid frenzy that there must be something to it.

    If “mob is whipped up into frenzy” is your evidential standard, then the Salem witch trials were a good thing that just didn’t go far enough.

    Ditto the Khmer Rouge “Year Zero” in People’s Kampuchea.

  58. Precious says:
    @Desiderius

    There are more than a few R Senators who would jump at the chance of a President Pence if they could get away with it. That’s actually the play. The ongoing coup has always been at least somewhat bi-partisan. That’s why the media’s always been so cocky.

    Trump has a 95% approval rating among Republican voters. What you are saying is that 20-25 Republican senators are going to commit political suicide. If you really believe that and will match my bet, I will put up $1000 that you are wrong. And let’s not forget Democrats like Senator Joe Manchin aren’t going to also commit political suicide just to save Biden and a few other corrupt Democrats. Joe Manchin is a political survivor, not a fanatic.

    The media is not cocky, they are desperate and hysterical. A cocky media wouldn’t be publishing stories about Trump stocking moats with alligators and stealing pancakes.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  59. Precious says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Thanks for the reminder, I had to go look up the vote to refresh my memory. You need 67 votes to obtain a conviction. Even if the Republicans had all voted against Clinton they still would have been 12 votes shy.

  60. Precious says:
    @Tim Howells

    And in fact, Donald J. Trump must be pretty squeaky clean, given the big zero that Robert Mueller, Andrew Weissmann, et al came up with over the course of three years.

    We can argue endlessly over whether or not he is keeping his promises, whether or not he is Deep State, and whether or not he is playing 4D chess.

    But thanks to Mueller’s team, bureaucrat leaks and partisan Democratic party investigations, Trump is the single most vetted American president in modern US history, and possibly all of US history.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  61. Prusmc says:
    @Logan

    With Collins of Maine, Murcoski of Alaska, and Romney of Utah, they only need one more for the simple majority. Marco Rubio of Florida?

  62. @Logan

    To be fair, Trump is also impossible to shame into resigning.

    Which is necessary to survive, the way politics is played today. The Democrats are in no position to shame anyone–principles are only important to them if they can be used against an opponent. They don’t hold themselves accountable to them.

    It’s like the way Ted Kennedy felt that his religion beliefs were a private matter that he shouldn’t impose on anyone, including himself. (I think it was Joe Sobran who came up with that.)

  63. @Art Deco

    He did dissent- not officially, but he questioned the findings more than the other members of the commission & objected to certain language being included in the report, and he later strongly attacked Hoover and declared he “had been lying his eyes out.”

    And yes, it is weird that relatively shortly after denouncing Hoover he disappeared in an Alaskan plane crash and his body was never found!

    You’ve got me on the timing there, and the causation is actually more the opposite of what I implied (Boggs involvement in Warren Commission leads to already skeptical Garrison revisiting Oswald’s NOLA ties as he noticed inaccuracies in report) but that’s it. I guess my point was more that many influential people from the area had connections and interacted and doubted the official story about the assassination pretty early on. And the investigation of the NOLA DA office wasn’t that weird, and its findings were not that bizarre as far as conspiracies go. Just because the jury (who knows what the selection protocol was, and media coverage was lampooning Garrison by that point anyway) voted to acquit early doesn’t mean much. Garrison was bizarre himself, but he was intelligent and was probably closer to finding the truth than many other conspiracists.

    Doesn’t matter. Not like we will ever really know what happened, beyond the fact that intelligence agencies were involved in some capacity.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Anonymous
  64. @anonymous

    The puppet show is now jumping the shark.

    Tortured metaphor of the day.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  65. J.Ross says:
    @bomag

    that conservatives don’t want to join

    Yeah, exactly like all those sons of Judea who found themselves in funny books because they “didn’t want to join” more respectable illustration.

  66. Art Deco says:
    @S. Anonyia

    And yes, it is weird that relatively shortly after denouncing Hoover he disappeared in an Alaskan plane crash and his body was never found!

    he later strongly attacked Hoover and declared he “had been lying his eyes out.”

    When and were? That aside, there’d be quite a body count if it was SOP for Hoover’s minions to arrange nasty accidents every time some public figure said something rude about them. Hoover was dead at the time of the crash in question and his chum Clyde Tolson had retired.

    The aircraft with its pilot and the two members of Congress on board wasn’t found. Nothing mysterious about that. Bad location, bad time of the year, no homing equipment on the small prop plane in which they were flying.

    already skeptical Garrison revisiting Oswald’s NOLA ties as he noticed inaccuracies in report)

    See Tom Bethell’s account of Garrison’s conduct in 1967, 1968, and 1969. He was a kook who would pore over copies of the city directory and then chase down hapless people who happened to live across the street from other people (often hapless) in whom he had some interest. He would spin out wild scenarios and then send his staff on goose-chases to try to confirm them. The net result of this modus operandi was the Shaw trial.

    voted to acquit early doesn’t mean much.

    It’s an indicator of something you’d rather not acknowledge: the case against the defendants was not only not proven, it was absurd.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  67. J.Ross says:
    @Precious

    And decades before any one of those totally useless garbage-golem (whose entire knowledge of law begins and ends with intimidating people into process crime plead deals) decided that Trump was James Bond, Trump was our most public citizen.

  68. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Precious

    But whether you’re right or wrong in November 2020 is of little or no consequence. Voting – especially Red/Blue – only helps to maintain the system.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  69. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Tortured, yet true.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  70. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    Thanks for reading. And you disagree?

  71. @Dr. X

    Why can’t Trump just order Mossad to take out the CIA???

    Trump doesn’t control Mossad, Mossad controls Trump. Try to keep up.

  72. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    But whether you’re right or wrong in November 2020 is of little or no consequence. Voting – especially Red/Blue – only helps to maintain the system.

    By definition in a polity of 300 million plus people one voter has a tiny amount of control authority, but it is foolish to think that not voting does any more good.

    Best play is vote in each and every election, including local nuisance ones, and all primaries. If you really only can vote in one or the other vote in the primary and skip the general.

    If the race is not in play usually you should vote third party. You are shitting in the snotty neighbor’s swimming pool, sure. Doesn’t matter what third party.

    Any and all times there is only one candidate, write someone in. Pick a name out of the phone book.

    I’ve voted in each Presidential general since Reagan vs Mondale and Donald Trump was my first vote for a major party presidential candidate in the general. Why? I live in Kansas, which always votes GOP in the Presidential but will elect donkeys to other offices.

    It does little good, but not voting does none at all.

  73. @Precious

    If they could get away with it. So far they can’t. I’d be surprised if that changed.

  74. @anonymous

    The trouble is “jumped the shark” is already a dumb expression. To add “puppet show” to it creates such a ludicrous mental image that it’s impossible to think a serious point is being made, if that were in fact the case.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  75. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Ludicrous fits, too, but let’s go with:

    “.. as the puppet show accelerates into farce ..”

  76. Yngvar says:

    We should stop using community and start calling them the Intelligence Establishment or a word more sinister.

  77. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle

    I’ve also been trying and not managing to stand in the other side’s shoes. It is hard not to conclude the huffing/puffing about the Ukraine phone call is bad faith, but the emotional need to stab at DJT over something, anything is in the driver’s seat. My experience of California liberals of both the NPC and die-hard Anita-Hill-loving partisan stripes is that they are still ornery about Clinton’s impeachment and Ye Olde Stolen Decision-2000. Those quite unlike events have just merged in their heads. It is like their version of the Tate-LaBianca murders, a switch flipped on paradisical epoch of Clinton (and, I guess, Gingrich) after which the world dimmed into a nightmare. What gnaws at many is that the magical half-Negro didn’t really reverse any of the nightmare. Other than hanging out the pricey new Iraqi government to dry, Obama studiously advanced Beltway priorities. His failed presidency effected a slight attenuation of Bush’s failure. This inconvenient truth causes the casual liberals a bit of angst. So even without a material reason they’ll white-knight for Hunter Biden and pretend to be scandalized by a phone call. Self-styled centrists can be excitable too. People on either end of the spectrum are of course going to say it’s NBD, Trump is not draining the swamp, nothing ever changes, etc.

  78. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hunsdon

    I think RT style guide has always referred to it that way.

  79. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Garrison was a showboating hick. If Oliver Stone hadn’t made a movie out of the Marrs-Garrison Unified Hodgepodge JFK Theory (he wanted out of Vietnam, lol) nobody would remember who was the New Orleans D.A. before Harry Connick, Sr.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  80. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    The grandfathers of the hick in question were, respectively, a lawyer and an auctioneer. His father was a mess much of his life, but did graduate from college, something quite unusual for someone of that vintage. His step-father owned his own business. He was a child of the bourgeoisie.

  81. Corvinus says:

    “And if you can’t trust nameless, faceless members of the intelligence community, you must hate democracy.”

    Classic hit and run commentary by the nervous nellie Mr. Sailer on an issue that requires in-depth analysis. Perhaps another column on hair will calm his nerves.

    Because we all know that Mr. Sailer would be up in arms if Obama was in the EXACT situation. Stay cagey!

  82. anon[232] • Disclaimer says:

    Classic hit and run commentary

    Classic irony. He still won’t pay attention to you, though.

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