The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
San Francisco Still Prioritizing Fighting Stigma Rather Than Coronavirus
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the New York Times:

How Much Should the Public Know About Who Has the Coronavirus?

Amid calls for more transparency, a debate is raging among public health experts over how much data on the spread of the virus should be released.

Thomas Fuller, March 28, 2020

… Across the United States there is even less consistency. New York is listing cases by age bracket, gender and borough despite calls for more localized reporting. Connecticut lists data by town. Florida provides its residents with a wealth of data on the pandemic. The state’s Department of Health has a detailed dashboard and reports showing the spread of the virus — rich with data on the cities affected, the number of people tested, the age brackets of patients, whether they are Florida residents, and the number of cases in nursing homes.

Health departments in the Bay Area make the case that releasing more granular data could heighten discrimination against certain communities where there might be clusters. The first cases in the Bay Area were among ethnic Chinese residents returning from trips to China.

“Pandemics increase paranoia and stigma,” said Dr. Rohan Radhakrishna, the deputy health officer of Contra Costa County, across the Bay from San Francisco, which provides only the total number of cases in the county on its website. “We must be extra cautious in protecting individuals and the community.”

In Santa Clara, health officials say they cannot disclose how many cases are found in each city because of the nation’s strict medical privacy law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996.

But that law was designed for the protection of personal data at doctors’ offices and in hospitals and includes provisions for the release of otherwise protected information during emergencies.

Using the law as a justification for limiting the release of aggregate data about the coronavirus is “ridiculous,” according to Arthur L. Caplan, a professor of bioethics at the N.Y.U. School of Medicine in New York City. …

The U.S. approach contrasts sharply with that of Singapore and Taiwan, whose fights against the virus have been praised as among the most effective. Both governments make public the suspected linkages of cases, anonymized by numbers. In Singapore the authorities sometimes list neighborhoods where patients lived, their workplaces and churches or mosques that they attended.

The irony is that this turned out to be spread less (initially) by The Marginalized and more by skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other versions of The Privileged.

 
Hide 145 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. However the information on the Florida dashboard may be inaccurate. For example for 7 cases in the first county I looked at (Baker), the average age is younger than the youngest of the range, and for Miami Dade the age range of the victims is given as 3-120.

    The average age of cases in all the metropolitan areas of Florida is less than 50, which seems strange, except in Jacksonville, which is no retirement mecca, where the average is in the low 50s.

    Say it ain’t so!

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.
     
    Yeah here, it's bright and sunny and 80 degrees (85 on my thermometer out back, but i'll defer to whatever the air base is reporting) and 75% humidity. Even inside it's 80 and 65% with the fan whirring nicely overhead.

    Makes it a bit harder for the virus to jump into your lungs ...

    Only downside is my eyelids get very heavy reading Steve's corona blog. About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.
  2. How long before we embrace the other Swedish approach, where illegal immigrants have priority to medical care over citizen Seniors?

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/29/sweden-health-board-prioritise-migrants-over-swedes-with-pre-existing-conditions-elderly-for-virus-care/

  3. In San Francisco and environs, ideology triumphs over reality every time!

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Until, that is, reality decides to notice.
    , @Anonymous
    Only 5 dead, 340 infected last I saw. Excellent epidemic stats for a city of about 800,000 full of Chinese immigrants, male gays, tourists, visitors, with a busy international airport.
  4. You’d think Doc Radhakrishna, going by his name, wouldn’t care about people from China being offended.

    • Replies: @SOL
    What are his credentials and how was he selected? Tired of the South Asian invasion.
  5. In the past when things got into the weeds there was no hope that apoliticals and low-information voters would escape trickery, but now, with this straightforward and universal burden, there is a real sense that people (beyond declared or traditional Trump supporters) see a difference between those who want to deal with this and those who want to milk this. Cuomo’s Warehouse is a little too similar to Puerto Rico. I hope Taiwan gets talked up as much as possible as a successful example.

  6. No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well? No, I don’t expect you to NOTICE the hypocrisy on your part.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.
    , @ben tillman

    No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well?
     
    Normal people don't care about that.
  7. In Wuhan, they are lifting restrictions on movement, but you’d better have the right QR code on your phone. To enter a public place with other people, you need to show the app on your phone demonstrating that you have met the requirements. The government knows all about your status and whether you’ve been in the country for at least two weeks, as well as complete information about your movements as tracked by your phone.

    The information may not be public, but the government knows it all. I don’t know for sure, but this probably dovetails with their social credit application development, which penalizes people for social infractions like failing to use a leash with their dog, smoking on trains, etc.

    The stated goal for the application is perfect for the Age of Corona:

    “…to allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step.”

  8. I suspect contact tracing is hopeless at this point.

    As for Frisco, this is the place that put first Vincent Hallinan’s son and then Kathy Boudin’s son in the district attorney’s chair. People pay dearly for the unseriousness of their neighbors.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  9. I’m confused – even if the data showed clusters in homosexual or asian groups, wouldnt that just be more evidence of how white cis patriarchy creates a world that inherently discriminates against everyone else?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I’m confused – even if the data showed clusters in homosexual or asian groups, wouldnt that just be more evidence of how white cis patriarchy creates a world that inherently discriminates against everyone else?
     
    It works like all other inconvenient data and hard facts for the true believers - they of course believe that the data yields the only possible conclusion that it is evidence of oppression, but they know that should the data get into the hands of someone the likes of you or Mr. Sailer that it'll be used for nefarious purposes such as questioning the desirability of mass immigration/open borders or the public health effects of the sexual habits of the LGBQT and sometimes Y community.

    You can only be trusted to have access to data if you're already a professed adherent of this religion and have therefore drawn the correct conclusions prior to receiving it.
  10. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:

    San Francisco is basically run by Chinese so it’s no surprising that saving their own reputation is the priority.

    I don’t get why people say the Chinese/East Asians are so “based” when in reality the cities full of and run by Chinese/East Asians are the biggest leftist dumps in the US. Maybe they’re “based” in their own countries, but when they get to the US they seem more willing than anyone to jump on the open borders, LGBT, rainbow flag socialist bandwagon.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    South Asians =! South-East Asians =! the Han menace =! North-East Asians. North-East Asians have high-trust societies that work as well or better than European ones. I do not recall anybody ever saying that the Chinese were a good model, except as obvious jokes, like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, or that one Australian who went out of his way to visit Israel.
    , @Alden
    I’ve been posting for years that Asians may be entrepreneurial, capitalist but they are officially 40% of the population of San Francisco. That’s just the census. Asians don’t fill out the forms for the first 2 generations. So there are probably more than appears in the census.

    Despite all the whining about prejudice, they’ve been a power in San Francisco since 1850. Yet the city gets crazier and crazier as Asian population and power increases.

    And more of them are involved in brothels, illegal gambling, even worse shylocking associated with illegal gambling and extortion than being genius physicians dentists etc.

    Hate the homeless for being insane drug addicts all you want. The truth is, homelessness is caused by the fact that the Chinese are happy to
    live 25 in a 1,000 sq ft house which has driven rents to astronomical levels.
  11. In Santa Clara, health officials say they cannot disclose how many cases are found in each city because of the nation’s strict medical privacy law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996.

    This is nonsense, but probably public employees are inhibited from doing their jobs properly in case the politicians, or fringe activists, denounce them, so they keep their heads below the HIPAA parapet, even though they actually know this is bullshit.

    HIPAA was originally intended to lay down some guidelines for protecting patient confidentiality so that useful information and medical records could be shared and transmitted between doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies under certain protocols on a need-to-know basis without compromising the doctor/patient confidentiality of individuals and letting personal information get into the hands of journalists, vendors, or nosy neighbors.

    Also to establish some base standards for access to electronic medical records. Newspapers feature stories about lost computers and memory sticks but a more common and longstanding problem is about staff accessing records that they have no right to see. It has always been possible for staff to look at paper records, and in most cases, there is no track of record. Therefore, electronic records make it possible to keep track of who has accessed which records.

    It appears that the only really safe way to transmit confidential information is by fax, which is why that protocol is universal in the medical world.

    HIPAA has since taken on a life of its own, putting out shoots into every area of medical practice, so that even prisoners with acne have to have their diagnosis shielded from other inmates.

    And yet I regularly get junk mail from commercial entities identifying me as a Medicare patient, so apparently the government is giving out access to my information and home address. All in all HIPAA makes a whole lot of rules and regulations, but is not particularly successful in protect confidential patient information.

    Needless to say, only the US has HIPAA, though other entities do have confidentiality rules and the European Community has particularly tough laws about personal data.

    https://www.statnews.com/2018/06/18/privacy-law-eu-health-data/

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    HIPAA has since taken on a life of its own, ...
     
    Agreed, Jonathan. I have to go twice about 8 miles away when I get a lab test once a year, in order to get my results the 2nd time. They will not email it, but they'll put it in the snail mail - seems to take a week. It may as well be back in 1920 the way some things operate today.

    Good comment.
  12. You can say what you want of their PCness, but leaders in CA (and NoCa, in particular) took this way more seriously than virtually any other part of the country and we are being payed for it.

    I drove through SF yesterday and it’s a ghost town. Union Square major retailers (Neiman Marcus, Saks, …) are boarded up with plywood and there’s almost no one out and those that are are almost all masked. Chinatown has been virtually deserted for 3 weeks now. To get in any store there are lines outside with chalk marks on the ground signaling proper distance; you’re sprayed with hand sanitizer on the way in and the way out. It’s all very civilized.

    Drove by the hospitals and nothing like what I’m seeing on the news from NYC. No lines outside the ER, no tents, no hazmat suited triage units.

    Everyone is holding tight and in relatively good humor, but if this blows up NYC, your next Democrat nominee for POTUS is likely to be Newsom and not Cuomo.

    • Replies: @danand
    Deckin, what is really surprising is the low number of infections/deaths in San Francisco (pop ~900K). SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian "metropolis" in the US. Perhaps all their history with other communicable disease has made SF residents more careful/cautious?

    Walked past a homeless guy (which I now note for their relative rarity, rather than "ubiquitousness") near Union Square. He dropped and started doing push-ups, perhaps to demonstrate his health? But you're right, for the most part it's near ghost town. In the towns South of SF there is still at least a little activity.

    Today's numbers:
    https://flic.kr/p/2iK4zkG
    https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp
  13. @Jonathan Mason

    In Santa Clara, health officials say they cannot disclose how many cases are found in each city because of the nation’s strict medical privacy law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996.
     
    This is nonsense, but probably public employees are inhibited from doing their jobs properly in case the politicians, or fringe activists, denounce them, so they keep their heads below the HIPAA parapet, even though they actually know this is bullshit.

    HIPAA was originally intended to lay down some guidelines for protecting patient confidentiality so that useful information and medical records could be shared and transmitted between doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies under certain protocols on a need-to-know basis without compromising the doctor/patient confidentiality of individuals and letting personal information get into the hands of journalists, vendors, or nosy neighbors.

    Also to establish some base standards for access to electronic medical records. Newspapers feature stories about lost computers and memory sticks but a more common and longstanding problem is about staff accessing records that they have no right to see. It has always been possible for staff to look at paper records, and in most cases, there is no track of record. Therefore, electronic records make it possible to keep track of who has accessed which records.

    It appears that the only really safe way to transmit confidential information is by fax, which is why that protocol is universal in the medical world.

    HIPAA has since taken on a life of its own, putting out shoots into every area of medical practice, so that even prisoners with acne have to have their diagnosis shielded from other inmates.

    And yet I regularly get junk mail from commercial entities identifying me as a Medicare patient, so apparently the government is giving out access to my information and home address. All in all HIPAA makes a whole lot of rules and regulations, but is not particularly successful in protect confidential patient information.

    Needless to say, only the US has HIPAA, though other entities do have confidentiality rules and the European Community has particularly tough laws about personal data.

    https://www.statnews.com/2018/06/18/privacy-law-eu-health-data/

    HIPAA has since taken on a life of its own, …

    Agreed, Jonathan. I have to go twice about 8 miles away when I get a lab test once a year, in order to get my results the 2nd time. They will not email it, but they’ll put it in the snail mail – seems to take a week. It may as well be back in 1920 the way some things operate today.

    Good comment.

  14. “Pandemics increase paranoia and stigma,” said Dr. Rohan Radhakrishna…

    …backed by a caste of thousands.

    Across the United States there is even less consistency.

    It’s called “federalism”, Charlie. Diversity, if you prefer.

    In Santa Clara, health officials say they cannot disclose how many cases are found in each city because of the nation’s strict medical privacy law…

    Then they should boycott the upcoming census. It operates on the same principle, individual privacy, with publication of aggregate data.

    The chances of this happening would fit inside the coronavirus itself!

    The U.S. approach contrasts sharply with that of Singapore and Taiwan…

    I like Korea’s approach. Now this is Gangnam style:

    The Small Seoul Street Where Cocktails Reign Supreme

  15. • Thanks: danand
    • LOL: Polynikes
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Norm's the OG. See Gal Gadot, and other douchebags, this is how you do it.
  16. Steve, do you know that Stigma has harmed more people than the Kung Flu ever will?!

    .

    [MORE]

    I mean, no, not physically, but … still… their feelings …

  17. We All Fallodon?*
    Or: San Francisco Prioritizing Fighting of Coronavirus With Stigma and Stamen?

    “If you’re going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair”… and have a ‘”pocket full of posies”…”we all fall down…”

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/scottmckenzie/sanfranciscobesuretowearflowersinyourhair.html

    * “Edward Grey, 1st Viscount Grey of Fallodon (1862–1933). ‘The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time’ ” [from Wiki]

    Also see: Boosting IQ with neurosurgical procedure, Eulogizing traitor, Flowers for Algernon Hiss

    See also: Defend your home with a PISTIL and avoid going stir-crazy by reading Elements of STYLE
    (which, sadly and obviously with respect to the latter, I haven’t)

    • Replies: @Cortes
    Very good, Charlie Gordon!
  18. @Corvinus
    No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well? No, I don’t expect you to NOTICE the hypocrisy on your part.

    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Alfa, it's pointless. Corny's convinced he's the genius anti-Steve--brave defender of the conventional "wisdom". His neurons fire and just has to point out Steve's "hypocrisy". Doesn't matter if it makes absolutely zero sense. (I'm not as fast as i was at 20, but i think, i've still got a 3 digit IQ and can't figure out what Steve's "hypocrisy" is supposed to be here.) Just ignore.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Granted, that the Privileged definitely have had a significant role to play in the spread of the virus (and one can see how government leaders are being affected worldwide), but it shouldn't be so easily dismissed that the virus originated in a specific nation, and yet, we're being told all the time by the MSM that the real virus is shaming, or simply pointing out the fact of who originally gave it to the world. If COVID-19 had originated in say, the UK, Germany, or Switzerland, the MSM would trumpet that fact day and night with questions such as "How could these white nations with all their privilege have done such a thing to the world? Are they really that racist vs eveyone else that they want millions of people of color to catch this virus?" And articles like that would proliferate non-stop.
    , @Corvinus
    "He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached."

    Of course there is a stigma attached. Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part? Could it be to perpetuate the notion that the "elites" and "jet setters" should be outed? Could it be to showcase how globalization is finally rearing its ugly head for us normies to see? Could it be mere clickbait? All are reasonable to assume.

    We know that the vast majority of Covid-19 cases are "everyday" people. Do they not have the right to privacy when it comes to the general public discovering what ails them, especially when some people foolishly believe that this virus is but a Jewish cabal hoax?
    , @syonredux
    Corvinus is a parody account. Don't waste your time taking him seriously.
  19. @Jonathan Mason
    However the information on the Florida dashboard may be inaccurate. For example for 7 cases in the first county I looked at (Baker), the average age is younger than the youngest of the range, and for Miami Dade the age range of the victims is given as 3-120.

    The average age of cases in all the metropolitan areas of Florida is less than 50, which seems strange, except in Jacksonville, which is no retirement mecca, where the average is in the low 50s.

    Say it ain't so!

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.

    Yeah here, it’s bright and sunny and 80 degrees (85 on my thermometer out back, but i’ll defer to whatever the air base is reporting) and 75% humidity. Even inside it’s 80 and 65% with the fan whirring nicely overhead.

    Makes it a bit harder for the virus to jump into your lungs …

    Only downside is my eyelids get very heavy reading Steve’s corona blog. About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “ About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.”

    Enjoy while you can! It is 70 and sunny in San Diego with a mild ocean breeze. Nobody is going to the beach though, you risk arrest.

    Supposedly there’s one beach in an unincorporated area under state jurisdiction still open and Oceanside’s beach (last beach in San Diego County before Camp Pendleton) is subject to “soft closure.” Those probably have a day or two left before a hard shutdown. Some surf addicts who’ve been going twice a week or more for decades are sneaking out late at night to do it.

    Everyone is walking their dog and enjoying the sun on the street though. The rainy late winter really brought out the grass and wildflowers nicely, and all the fit housewives look great in their jogging shorts and ponytails. Even the rambling tweaker bum looked cheery, he told me the Jews and CIA were now conspiring to help him.
    , @Bragadocious
    The virus does seem to dislike hot sunny weather. But according to Ron Unz the reason for California's relatively low incidence of cases is competent leadership, not favorable weather. All those big-brained Californians like London Breed and Eric Garcetti have the right answers while the rest of the country fumbles around like Frank Drebin on a stakeout. I guess Florida is likewise blessed with brilliant leaders--how lucky for you guys.
  20. I’m sure someone named Radhakrishna has the best interests of Americans foremost in mind. On the other hand, the people of San Francisco hate us and want us dead. So maybe it’s all to the good.

    On a different topic, while epidemiologists seem to think pathogens evolve towards lower virulence, that seems to me like something that depends on the pathogen’s lifestyle, and the hosts’ too. If SARS-CoV-2 is asymptomatic a lot of the time, those carriers aren’t sneezing, coughing, and blowing their noses nearly as often as those with symptoms. Doesn’t that mean that the virus has lots of room to evolve to be more virulent, so as to spread better, and presumably kill even more people as somewhat collateral damage? If no symptoms mean less spread to new hosts, along with less reproduction in the current host, more virulent genomes have an advantage in the host, and spreading to new hosts.

    If mildly ill people stay home and self isolate, but sicker hosts go to the hospital, spreading their germs on every surface they touch on the way, and in the waiting room before being seen, and then coughing on healthcare workers, doesn’t that provide a reproductive advantage to more virulent strains?

    Not to mention the possibility that it is spreading like mad in the Uighur concentration camps, that selects for greater virulence, like influenza was selected to be super virulent in the troop transports, trenches, and field hospitals of World War II.

    Maybe we’re putting a lot of faith in the exoN gene keeping the virus’ genome from mutating too much, and exploring varying levels of reproduction, and immune inhibition, and whatever else goes into virulence.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    If mildly ill people stay home and self isolate, but sicker hosts go to the hospital, spreading their germs on every surface they touch on the way, and in the waiting room before being seen, and then coughing on healthcare workers, doesn’t that provide a reproductive advantage to more virulent strains?
     
    I think you've nailed it. Hospital infections can be very nasty precisely because they do not depend on the host being ambulatory. Ideally we'd keep people with infectious diseases and any sort of infection in separate hospitals from where you go for surgery or chemo or with a heart attack.

    The sweet spot for a virus is really "the common cold"--you cough, sneeze, have a running nose--but you're perfectly capable of continue to funAll these corona cases in the hospital--not good.

    Ideally anyone with bad symptoms from Covid-19 would be isolated world wide, and we'd be pushing hard--evolutionarily--against evolution toward severity.
  21. I read the San Francisco Chronicle (SF Gate) and the Berkeley paper (Berkeleyside) on line. Pre pandemic you could find multiple stories daily about the pandemic homeless crisis in California. But, please be kind and don’t stigmatize these people, who shit and piss on the streets. Who confront strangers and cause conventions to cancel ( Oracle’s 40,000 plus convention to San Fran.) No, better to let this hoarde of unhoused spread filth and disease across your city. San fran has “poop patrols” that pick of human waste and hose down streets and in NY, I can’t get a haircut.

  22. If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working? Or is the more likely scenario is that they were are the usual gatherings, celebrations, and entertainment venues that seem to really spread the disease.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @prosa123
    If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working?

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that "Oh no, I might have the infection!" has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off.
    Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.
  23. @Alfa158
    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.

    Alfa, it’s pointless. Corny’s convinced he’s the genius anti-Steve–brave defender of the conventional “wisdom”. His neurons fire and just has to point out Steve’s “hypocrisy”. Doesn’t matter if it makes absolutely zero sense. (I’m not as fast as i was at 20, but i think, i’ve still got a 3 digit IQ and can’t figure out what Steve’s “hypocrisy” is supposed to be here.) Just ignore.

    • Agree: BenKenobi, Kylie
  24. “The first cases in the Bay Area were among ethnic Chinese residents returning from trips to China.”

    AHA!

    “The irony is that this turned out to be spread less (initially) by The Marginalized and more by skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other versions of The Privileged.”

    Which country were global business travelers likely visiting when they brought home COVID-19? Possibly the nation with the most wet markets and bat eaters?

  25. If we eradicated COVID-19 Coronavirus tomorrow, would that end racism? Would that end sexism? Would that end discrimination against the LGBT community? Would that make people feel more welcoming to immigrants overnight?

    • Replies: @Charon

    If we eradicated COVID-19 Coronavirus tomorrow, would that end racism?
     
    Of course not, but if we let enough people die that will cut it back a bit. Especially if they are old white people. So my television tells me.
  26. @Alfa158
    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.

    Granted, that the Privileged definitely have had a significant role to play in the spread of the virus (and one can see how government leaders are being affected worldwide), but it shouldn’t be so easily dismissed that the virus originated in a specific nation, and yet, we’re being told all the time by the MSM that the real virus is shaming, or simply pointing out the fact of who originally gave it to the world. If COVID-19 had originated in say, the UK, Germany, or Switzerland, the MSM would trumpet that fact day and night with questions such as “How could these white nations with all their privilege have done such a thing to the world? Are they really that racist vs eveyone else that they want millions of people of color to catch this virus?” And articles like that would proliferate non-stop.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  27. Anonymous[451] • Disclaimer says:

    Nope. Not skiers. Gentile skiers have been the victims, but once they are diagnosed, they follow self quarantine guidelines. These cover ups are to smother knowledge of the fact that religious Jewish people have been the primary vectors who ignore social distancing and self quarantine guidelines.

    If it was actually white gentiles, the media would already be demanding reparations for their Brown brothers. Do you doubt it for a moment?

    • Agree: HammerJack
  28. The Connecticut data by town, updated daily, has provided insight in some cases. Mostly it is just a function of proximity to Manhattan, but there are some interesting exceptions. I’ve watched some particular locales’ numbers, but I will not go into what they have told me. It’s no big deal anyway, just stuff about social and ethnic connections to certain early hot spots in New York.

    — Ignorant jingoistic boomer who should just die now

    • Replies: @SFG
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular--they're really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    And, no, I don't think it's a Zionist conspiracy--what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    The age cohorts would be useful if the data were also shown on a per capita basis. 7% of the cases and 65% of the deaths were of those 80 or older.

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results. Disconnecticut, of course, no longer has county governments. County data must come from the state, or the towns.

    By the way, Fairfield's fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester's next door (in New York) is suspicious-- eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?
    , @Anon
    Fairfield County, CT, has the highest number of cases in that state. 18% of the whites in Fairfield have Italian ancestry.
  29. With all the news over the coronavirus, I haven’t heard about Nipsey Hussle in three weeks.

  30. They should protect religious people like those at Liberty University. And as often, best protection is total prohibition.

    As you like patterns, you have an obvious pattern of religious gatherings being a big vector of corona virus, even confessional universities where maybe they don’t take the Mexican beer that much .

    Maybe it’s the faithful who spit when they pray out loud together that is filthy, this notwithstanding into wich religion they happen to art.

  31. Disinformation and gag orders, omission of true information to fight prejudice (which usually is true and accurate) is of utmost priority. Much more important than fighting terrorism, school violence, prison rape and mass child rape Rotherham style. And avoiding “prejudice” is more important than fighting a killer disease.
    Media style books, police rules, and social media community standards explicity demand unequal reporting. Sincerity .net demonstrates the universally obeyed PC gag order: Never tell true facts that could stigmatize minorities. It more than ok to stigmatize white repressors, which helps to make “minorities” look even better. Stigmatizing privileged skiers, business travellers is perfectly politically correct, if these are white christian males

  32. @Buzz Mohawk
    The Connecticut data by town, updated daily, has provided insight in some cases. Mostly it is just a function of proximity to Manhattan, but there are some interesting exceptions. I've watched some particular locales' numbers, but I will not go into what they have told me. It's no big deal anyway, just stuff about social and ethnic connections to certain early hot spots in New York.

    -- Ignorant jingoistic boomer who should just die now

    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    And, no, I don’t think it’s a Zionist conspiracy–what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHm56O2NTI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0AlR2eHQyg
    , @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.
  33. • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    So far, it's the more affluent Southern Californians along the coast and near the Hollywood Hills that are getting either hit harder. It's not clear if Chinese neighborhoods have disproportionately high rates.
  34. I’d like to see a list of the following data on every COVID-19 victim: age, BMI, any salient underlying conditions, if they tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and what exactly is listed on their death certificate as the cause of death.

    Completely anonymized of course: no names, addresses, race, next-of-kin, or any other personal identifying information. It’s all available from their medical chart and the DC. It would go along way toward assessing what is really going on.

  35. @SFG
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular--they're really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    And, no, I don't think it's a Zionist conspiracy--what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

    what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    well played
  36. @Dan Hayes
    In San Francisco and environs, ideology triumphs over reality every time!

    Until, that is, reality decides to notice.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  37. @Alfa158
    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.

    “He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached.”

    Of course there is a stigma attached. Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part? Could it be to perpetuate the notion that the “elites” and “jet setters” should be outed? Could it be to showcase how globalization is finally rearing its ugly head for us normies to see? Could it be mere clickbait? All are reasonable to assume.

    We know that the vast majority of Covid-19 cases are “everyday” people. Do they not have the right to privacy when it comes to the general public discovering what ails them, especially when some people foolishly believe that this virus is but a Jewish cabal hoax?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part?"

    Uh ... knowledge? Which is good? Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn't know anything about before New Year's Eve.

    But, no, of course not, it's all part of my vicious anti-skier animus. You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I've kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I've been writing.

  38. @Buzz Mohawk
    The Connecticut data by town, updated daily, has provided insight in some cases. Mostly it is just a function of proximity to Manhattan, but there are some interesting exceptions. I've watched some particular locales' numbers, but I will not go into what they have told me. It's no big deal anyway, just stuff about social and ethnic connections to certain early hot spots in New York.

    -- Ignorant jingoistic boomer who should just die now

    The age cohorts would be useful if the data were also shown on a per capita basis. 7% of the cases and 65% of the deaths were of those 80 or older.

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results. Disconnecticut, of course, no longer has county governments. County data must come from the state, or the towns.

    By the way, Fairfield’s fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester’s next door (in New York) is suspicious– eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results.
     
    There is a town with no hospital that suffered a large number of cases early, which were reported and mapped to that town. I watched it happen. No hospital in town, but lots of cases listed early and mapped to that town.

    My town doesn't have a hospital either, and neither do some others, but we all have our cases listed. This is town-by-town reporting. Overall, I think my state deserves credit for a job well done so far.

    I suppose one could calculate per capita pretty easily; I have a feel for the populations of our towns and cities, so I saw patterns without having to do that. Now things are spreading out, so those early patterns are converging indeed into the population centers that also tend to have hospitals. It is now more and more a function of town population, not hospitals.

    , @Jack D

    By the way, Fairfield’s fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester’s next door (in New York) is suspicious– eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?
     
    Death rate has a lot to do with where Patient Zero started the epidemic in that locality. In a nursing home - very bad. In an Orthodox synagogue with lots of young people and kids - not so bad.
  39. @SFG
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular--they're really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    And, no, I don't think it's a Zionist conspiracy--what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I’m not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn’t have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don’t seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city’s commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It’s near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn’t square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town’s “residents” are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.
     
    Because they both have it in for the rest of us? Politics makes strange bedbugs.
    , @Known Fact
    A fair number of Danbury-area people come over to Brewster NY to take Metro-North RR to Grand Central. Brewster residents meanwhile often shop and bank on the CT side of the border near Danbury, which could add to the spread. (Brewster is about 90 minutes from midtown, about as far as you can go up the line and still reasonably commute to NYC)

    Danbury itself now has a large Brazilian population as well as Central American. There's a yearly Greek festival at their church but I can't think of any Jewish stuff offhand.

    , @Clive Beaconsfield
    Balkan Muslims are not well-known for their zealotry, with some exceptions. Being descended from people whom converted to get ahead under the Ottomans probably makes a difference.
    , @Jack D

    Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.
     
    Why would this be awkward? They are Muslim but not Arab. Historically they mostly got along with their own (small) Jewish communities back home. Prior to the Zionist movement, Christendom had a much worse history of anti-Semitism and pogroms than the Muslim world. Two years of Nazi occupation did far more damage to the Kosovo Jewish community than 500 years of Muslim rule.
    , @kaganovitch
    * = Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.


    Heavily Orthodox Jewish Kensington neighborhood in Flatbush section of Brooklyn is side by side with Bangladeshi/Pakistani Muslim neighborhood . One can literally see the store signs change along Coney Island Ave, from English (with some Hebrew) to Urdu/? from 1 block to the next. There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.
  40. @Reg Cæsar
    The age cohorts would be useful if the data were also shown on a per capita basis. 7% of the cases and 65% of the deaths were of those 80 or older.

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results. Disconnecticut, of course, no longer has county governments. County data must come from the state, or the towns.

    By the way, Fairfield's fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester's next door (in New York) is suspicious-- eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results.

    There is a town with no hospital that suffered a large number of cases early, which were reported and mapped to that town. I watched it happen. No hospital in town, but lots of cases listed early and mapped to that town.

    My town doesn’t have a hospital either, and neither do some others, but we all have our cases listed. This is town-by-town reporting. Overall, I think my state deserves credit for a job well done so far.

    I suppose one could calculate per capita pretty easily; I have a feel for the populations of our towns and cities, so I saw patterns without having to do that. Now things are spreading out, so those early patterns are converging indeed into the population centers that also tend to have hospitals. It is now more and more a function of town population, not hospitals.

  41. • Replies: @ben tillman
    Hallelujah!
    , @Keypusher
    That might be the most astounding thing I’ve read since the pandemic began.
    , @Neuday

    ". . . minority and women owned businesses were given the opportunity to work on federal, state, and local projects . . . "
     
    How stupid or deceptive do you have to be to think that not giving preference to certain groups is the same thing as denying those groups the opportunity? After God-knows how many years of giving "minorities and women-owned businesses" handouts, can't they by now compete with businesses owned by White Males? Sounds like she believes in the indefatigable supremacy of White men. If we're allowed to compete as equals, the POC and women might as well not even show up. Based!
  42. @AnotherDad

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.
     
    Yeah here, it's bright and sunny and 80 degrees (85 on my thermometer out back, but i'll defer to whatever the air base is reporting) and 75% humidity. Even inside it's 80 and 65% with the fan whirring nicely overhead.

    Makes it a bit harder for the virus to jump into your lungs ...

    Only downside is my eyelids get very heavy reading Steve's corona blog. About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.

    “ About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.”

    Enjoy while you can! It is 70 and sunny in San Diego with a mild ocean breeze. Nobody is going to the beach though, you risk arrest.

    Supposedly there’s one beach in an unincorporated area under state jurisdiction still open and Oceanside’s beach (last beach in San Diego County before Camp Pendleton) is subject to “soft closure.” Those probably have a day or two left before a hard shutdown. Some surf addicts who’ve been going twice a week or more for decades are sneaking out late at night to do it.

    Everyone is walking their dog and enjoying the sun on the street though. The rainy late winter really brought out the grass and wildflowers nicely, and all the fit housewives look great in their jogging shorts and ponytails. Even the rambling tweaker bum looked cheery, he told me the Jews and CIA were now conspiring to help him.

  43. @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Because they both have it in for the rest of us? Politics makes strange bedbugs.

    • Disagree: Dissident
  44. Just so you know, California recently passed a law in the education code changing all instances of the term “at risk youth” to “at promise youth”. So this Orwellian denial and obscuration of the truth is full spectrum in the used to be Golden State.

    • Replies: @Neuday

    ". . . in the used to be Golden State."
     
    Oh, you can still call it the Golden State, cuz' it's been pissed away.
  45. @Corvinus
    No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well? No, I don’t expect you to NOTICE the hypocrisy on your part.

    No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well?

    Normal people don’t care about that.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Normal people don’t care about that."

    Assuredly, despite your protestations, normal people do care about where a disease originates. Why you think to the contrary is odd.
  46. It has a satisfying heft to it , in some ways better than a pistol .

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    http://images.library.wisc.edu/Literature/EFacs/ParPressChap/Williams/M/0019.jpg


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gimvEyeTwAY
  47. Having been a denizen of Baghdad on the Bay during the height of the shitshow of AIDS, colour me unsurprised to discover that what tiny residue of horse sense remained in the 80s has long ago been subsumed into the neurotic virtue signalling of the New Class. Play stupid games…

  48. @Dissident
    If we eradicated COVID-19 Coronavirus tomorrow, would that end racism? Would that end sexism? Would that end discrimination against the LGBT community? Would that make people feel more welcoming to immigrants overnight?

    ( Hillary Clinton Suggested Breaking Up the Big Banks Won’t End Racism and Sexism. Is She Right? )

    If we eradicated COVID-19 Coronavirus tomorrow, would that end racism?

    Of course not, but if we let enough people die that will cut it back a bit. Especially if they are old white people. So my television tells me.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  49. @Cagey Beast
    A map of Covid-19 cases in Los Angeles:

    https://csungis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ad3d7225d7114764b2554e8bfa156668

    So far, it’s the more affluent Southern Californians along the coast and near the Hollywood Hills that are getting either hit harder. It’s not clear if Chinese neighborhoods have disproportionately high rates.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    You guys are still confusing confirmed with tests vs having actually contracted the virus. Testing still lags. Rich people are getting tested first, not necessarily contracting it first.
  50. San Francisco Still Prioritizing Fighting Stigma …

    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?

    • LOL: Rob
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?
     
    Or a logo for Six Stigma processes. Which San Francisco must be using-- it's the ultimate in intersectionality, to the sixth dimension.


    https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/eccles-wpmedia/programs/executive-education/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/6-sigma-01.png

    Or a sorority:


    https://a.wattpad.com/cover/12377426-176-k885926.jpg
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FCL9j0SB6s
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Jen, a transgender black dwarf with a full afro, standing in the classic Notre Dame Fighting Leprechaun pose with a banner above: "Non Tactus Capillos"....for those who missed out on Latin classes "Don't touch my hair."
  51. @guest007
    If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working? Or is the more likely scenario is that they were are the usual gatherings, celebrations, and entertainment venues that seem to really spread the disease.

    If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working?

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that “Oh no, I might have the infection!” has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off.
    Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that “Oh no, I might have the infection!” has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off. Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.
     
    Wuflu? Or Blueflu?
    , @Yngvar
    Anyone that's been in (unprotected) contact with a Confirmed have to self isolate for 14 days, to be safe. Can deplete the staff quickly.
  52. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181184638648321

    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181185674743808

    Hallelujah!

  53. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    San Francisco Still Prioritizing Fighting Stigma …
     
    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?

    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?

    Or a logo for Six Stigma processes. Which San Francisco must be using– it’s the ultimate in intersectionality, to the sixth dimension.

    Or a sorority:

  54. OT: Three doctors have died of coronavirus in the UK. All had Middle Eastern names; yet people of Middle Eastern ethnicity are a small minority of British doctors. Is it possible that Middle Easterners are more susceptible to the virus than other people?

    The doctors who died were:

    Dr Habib Zaidi – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-52040991
    Dr Adil El Tayar – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52064450
    Dr Amged El-Hawrani – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52084915

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The first guy is a Paki. The next two are Arabs.

    According to this site, "Asians" are about 30% of NHS doctors. These are primarily South Asians.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/nhs-workforce/latest

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/chart/ethnic-profile-of-nhs-doctors-in-england-compared-with-total-population

    "Other" constitute 4% of doctors. I'm not sure if Arabs are included in this fraction.

    So an ethnic group (South+West Asian) that forms at most 30-34% of the England physician population is 100% of the first three Corona-related physician deaths. That's pretty interesting.

    It's particularly interesting that Southern Euros have been hit way harder than Northern Euros. Iran has been hit pretty hard too....
    , @Whitey Whiteman III
    They have to share their coronavirus hand with their wiping or eating hand.
  55. @Corvinus
    "He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached."

    Of course there is a stigma attached. Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part? Could it be to perpetuate the notion that the "elites" and "jet setters" should be outed? Could it be to showcase how globalization is finally rearing its ugly head for us normies to see? Could it be mere clickbait? All are reasonable to assume.

    We know that the vast majority of Covid-19 cases are "everyday" people. Do they not have the right to privacy when it comes to the general public discovering what ails them, especially when some people foolishly believe that this virus is but a Jewish cabal hoax?

    “Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part?”

    Uh … knowledge? Which is good? Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn’t know anything about before New Year’s Eve.

    But, no, of course not, it’s all part of my vicious anti-skier animus. You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I’ve kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I’ve been writing.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • LOL: Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Uh … knowledge? Which is good?"

    It's more than "knowledge". It's the pushing of a particular narrative. But remain cagey at your peril!

    "Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn’t know anything about before New Year’s Eve."

    That is other than accurate. The signs were there of a coming pandemic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/pandemic-coronavirus-united-states-trump-cdc/608215/

    We were warned in 2018 and 2019, when the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security gathered public-health experts, business leaders, and U.S. government officials for simulations of the devastating humanitarian, political, social, and economic consequences of fictional novel coronaviruses that left tens of millions dead around the world. Participants exited the events thinking, “‘Oh my god, we really need to get working on this,’” Eric Toner, who helped run the exercises, told me. Two months after the second simulation, a novel coronavirus (albeit with what appears to be a substantially lower lethality rate than the fictional viruses in the scenarios at Johns Hopkins) emerged in China.

    We were warned in 2019 of the grave hazards of a new influenza pandemic by the U.S. intelligence community in its annual “worldwide threat assessment.” They had also cautioned us in 2018. And in 2017. And in 2016. And in 2015. And in 2014. And in 2013, when intelligence officials pleaded, “This is not a hypothetical threat. History is replete with examples of pathogens sweeping populations that lack immunity, causing political and economic upheaval.” (The 2020 worldwide threat assessment, which reportedly yet again flagged America’s vulnerability to a flu pandemic, has been postponed without explanation.)
     
    And lest you not NOTICE, at the start of the coronavirus epidemic, Trump chose to treat MEDICINE like POLITICS and the situation as a public relations event. Then, (poof), a talking to by a Fox News analyst (Tucker Carlson), and soon he (and others) reluctantly acknowledge that MEDICINE is MEDICINE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=emb_title

    How is the CDC and other federal officials suppose to take the initiative if Trump or his cronies gets in the way? Are they not beholden to HIS instructions as the head of the executive branch? Does not everything have to go through him first? We have the people to do it, correct? So why are they being hamstrung?

    https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-running-shadow-coronavirus-task-force-testing-1493153

    "You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I’ve kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I’ve been writing."

    Thanks for the strawman. The three little pigs appreciate it!
    , @ScarletNumber

    Uh … knowledge? Which is good?
     
    If it's good enough for Faber College and Steve, it's good enough for me.
  56. @ben tillman

    No. It was spread by people, first in China, then throughout the world, Mr. Sailer. Are you not perpetuating stigma as well?
     
    Normal people don't care about that.

    “Normal people don’t care about that.”

    Assuredly, despite your protestations, normal people do care about where a disease originates. Why you think to the contrary is odd.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    I stated that normal people don't care about the perpetuation of stigma. How your insane brain could read that otherwise is a mystery.
  57. @donut
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PV3S31Y?tag=duckduckgo-ffnt-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

    It has a satisfying heft to it , in some ways better than a pistol .

    • LOL: donut
    • Replies: @reactionry
    "Killer Couples"
    Or: "The Check Is In The Mail"
    Or: Yes, I Remember Avian Flu

    https://www.oxygen.com/killer-couples

    Should June and Ward cleave together or cleave apart?

    See Also:
    Ward, did that federal coronavirus relief check come in time for us to make our mortgage payment?
    -[Un]Wontedly[?], it was late, June.

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/53744/adlestrop

    See Also the classic, "Ward, weren't you a little hard on the Beaver last night?"

  58. @Steve Sailer
    "Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part?"

    Uh ... knowledge? Which is good? Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn't know anything about before New Year's Eve.

    But, no, of course not, it's all part of my vicious anti-skier animus. You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I've kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I've been writing.

    “Uh … knowledge? Which is good?”

    It’s more than “knowledge”. It’s the pushing of a particular narrative. But remain cagey at your peril!

    “Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn’t know anything about before New Year’s Eve.”

    That is other than accurate. The signs were there of a coming pandemic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/pandemic-coronavirus-united-states-trump-cdc/608215/

    We were warned in 2018 and 2019, when the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security gathered public-health experts, business leaders, and U.S. government officials for simulations of the devastating humanitarian, political, social, and economic consequences of fictional novel coronaviruses that left tens of millions dead around the world. Participants exited the events thinking, “‘Oh my god, we really need to get working on this,’” Eric Toner, who helped run the exercises, told me. Two months after the second simulation, a novel coronavirus (albeit with what appears to be a substantially lower lethality rate than the fictional viruses in the scenarios at Johns Hopkins) emerged in China.

    We were warned in 2019 of the grave hazards of a new influenza pandemic by the U.S. intelligence community in its annual “worldwide threat assessment.” They had also cautioned us in 2018. And in 2017. And in 2016. And in 2015. And in 2014. And in 2013, when intelligence officials pleaded, “This is not a hypothetical threat. History is replete with examples of pathogens sweeping populations that lack immunity, causing political and economic upheaval.” (The 2020 worldwide threat assessment, which reportedly yet again flagged America’s vulnerability to a flu pandemic, has been postponed without explanation.)

    And lest you not NOTICE, at the start of the coronavirus epidemic, Trump chose to treat MEDICINE like POLITICS and the situation as a public relations event. Then, (poof), a talking to by a Fox News analyst (Tucker Carlson), and soon he (and others) reluctantly acknowledge that MEDICINE is MEDICINE.

    How is the CDC and other federal officials suppose to take the initiative if Trump or his cronies gets in the way? Are they not beholden to HIS instructions as the head of the executive branch? Does not everything have to go through him first? We have the people to do it, correct? So why are they being hamstrung?

    https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-running-shadow-coronavirus-task-force-testing-1493153

    “You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I’ve kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I’ve been writing.”

    Thanks for the strawman. The three little pigs appreciate it!

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    Yes, Trump is uniquely to blame, even as the pandemic is raging harder and faster in pretty much every country in Western Europe than it is in the US.
  59. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    San Francisco Still Prioritizing Fighting Stigma …
     
    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?

  60. Biden campaign memory holing references to Christine Blasey Ford, the chick who’s afraid of flying despite residing in both California and Hawaii. Joe still likes beer but you have to use both hands when you pop the top so the little hairs don’t get in the table.

    • LOL: Ron Mexico
  61. @reactionry
    We All Fallodon?*
    Or: San Francisco Prioritizing Fighting of Coronavirus With Stigma and Stamen?

    "If you're going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair"... and have a '"pocket full of posies"..."we all fall down..."

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/scottmckenzie/sanfranciscobesuretowearflowersinyourhair.html

    * "Edward Grey, 1st Viscount Grey of Fallodon (1862–1933). 'The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time' " [from Wiki]

    Also see: Boosting IQ with neurosurgical procedure, Eulogizing traitor, Flowers for Algernon Hiss

    See also: Defend your home with a PISTIL and avoid going stir-crazy by reading Elements of STYLE
    (which, sadly and obviously with respect to the latter, I haven't)

    Very good, Charlie Gordon!

  62. Repost because this hilarious cringe of the WHO shilling for China needs to be seen as much as possible:

  63. @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    A fair number of Danbury-area people come over to Brewster NY to take Metro-North RR to Grand Central. Brewster residents meanwhile often shop and bank on the CT side of the border near Danbury, which could add to the spread. (Brewster is about 90 minutes from midtown, about as far as you can go up the line and still reasonably commute to NYC)

    Danbury itself now has a large Brazilian population as well as Central American. There’s a yearly Greek festival at their church but I can’t think of any Jewish stuff offhand.

  64. @Alfa158
    He never said that the vectors of the disease were not people. He is simply pointing out the fact that a significant number of these people were skiers, tourists, international business travelers and other members of the Privileged. No stigma attached. Why do you feel it necessary to rush to the defense of the Privileged? The Privileged don’t need any help, by definition they are doing just fine.

    Corvinus is a parody account. Don’t waste your time taking him seriously.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Speaking of parody, laughs, good humor, etc. Hollywood has basically closed down for the foreseeable future. Shame. Also doesn't help that a respected thespian of theirs such as Tom Hanks came down with it either.
  65. @Deckin
    You can say what you want of their PCness, but leaders in CA (and NoCa, in particular) took this way more seriously than virtually any other part of the country and we are being payed for it.

    I drove through SF yesterday and it's a ghost town. Union Square major retailers (Neiman Marcus, Saks, ...) are boarded up with plywood and there's almost no one out and those that are are almost all masked. Chinatown has been virtually deserted for 3 weeks now. To get in any store there are lines outside with chalk marks on the ground signaling proper distance; you're sprayed with hand sanitizer on the way in and the way out. It's all very civilized.

    Drove by the hospitals and nothing like what I'm seeing on the news from NYC. No lines outside the ER, no tents, no hazmat suited triage units.

    Everyone is holding tight and in relatively good humor, but if this blows up NYC, your next Democrat nominee for POTUS is likely to be Newsom and not Cuomo.

    Deckin, what is really surprising is the low number of infections/deaths in San Francisco (pop ~900K). SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian “metropolis” in the US. Perhaps all their history with other communicable disease has made SF residents more careful/cautious?

    Walked past a homeless guy (which I now note for their relative rarity, rather than “ubiquitousness”) near Union Square. He dropped and started doing push-ups, perhaps to demonstrate his health? But you’re right, for the most part it’s near ghost town. In the towns South of SF there is still at least a little activity.

    Today’s numbers:
    SF 03-29-2020
    https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian “metropolis” in the US.
     
    "Hongcouver" is even odder, considering their proximity to the gateway city of Seattle. Maybe they saw it coming, and took precautions?
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    SF also doesn't have a particularly high percentage of elderly people living within the city proper, have to consider that. SF is mostly a younger persons city.
    , @Deckin
    The sheer charisma of this virus (from any modeling or rough getting-a-handle-on-it perspective) is truly awesome.

    I'm sure that's what's keeping us all from thinking about anything else. We want desperately to know, but the thing is so confounding. From the comments to Marginal Revolution we get European mortality data (which the site there does couch things with extreme caution) like this:

    https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

    From Worldometer (the data drug of choice for the doomsday model) --go to Daily Growth Factor--we get this:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/#cases-growth-factor

    Where's the R0>2? Have we slowed it down that much?

    From the Milanese newspaper, absolutely no mention of excessive deaths--in fact, the top story today is about their stimulus package and after the same kinds of charts we all get everyday, they go, 2 stories down, to the crisis in NY!

    I think until I see good body counts for the relevant time series, it's going to be erring on the side of extreme caution but without any assurance that we have any idea of what's happening or why.

  66. Per the Times of Israel, half the infected in Israel are ultra-Orthodox.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Good Lord, have they been eating bat too? The Torah forbids it so they should know better. Or perhaps they too have a form of wet markets for eating exotic foods.
  67. @Anonymous
    San Francisco is basically run by Chinese so it's no surprising that saving their own reputation is the priority.

    I don't get why people say the Chinese/East Asians are so "based" when in reality the cities full of and run by Chinese/East Asians are the biggest leftist dumps in the US. Maybe they're "based" in their own countries, but when they get to the US they seem more willing than anyone to jump on the open borders, LGBT, rainbow flag socialist bandwagon.

    South Asians =! South-East Asians =! the Han menace =! North-East Asians. North-East Asians have high-trust societies that work as well or better than European ones. I do not recall anybody ever saying that the Chinese were a good model, except as obvious jokes, like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, or that one Australian who went out of his way to visit Israel.

    • Replies: @Anaonymous
    And I was hoping for a good comment. Ah, well.
  68. @Corvinus
    "Normal people don’t care about that."

    Assuredly, despite your protestations, normal people do care about where a disease originates. Why you think to the contrary is odd.

    I stated that normal people don’t care about the perpetuation of stigma. How your insane brain could read that otherwise is a mystery.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00040/full

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-019-1271-3

    Again, quite odd you do not feel that way. Then again, maybe you just don't trust research studies?
  69. @Buzz Mohawk
    The Connecticut data by town, updated daily, has provided insight in some cases. Mostly it is just a function of proximity to Manhattan, but there are some interesting exceptions. I've watched some particular locales' numbers, but I will not go into what they have told me. It's no big deal anyway, just stuff about social and ethnic connections to certain early hot spots in New York.

    -- Ignorant jingoistic boomer who should just die now

    Fairfield County, CT, has the highest number of cases in that state. 18% of the whites in Fairfield have Italian ancestry.

  70. @snorlax
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrhux_CZGRE

    Norm’s the OG. See Gal Gadot, and other douchebags, this is how you do it.

  71. @danand
    Deckin, what is really surprising is the low number of infections/deaths in San Francisco (pop ~900K). SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian "metropolis" in the US. Perhaps all their history with other communicable disease has made SF residents more careful/cautious?

    Walked past a homeless guy (which I now note for their relative rarity, rather than "ubiquitousness") near Union Square. He dropped and started doing push-ups, perhaps to demonstrate his health? But you're right, for the most part it's near ghost town. In the towns South of SF there is still at least a little activity.

    Today's numbers:
    https://flic.kr/p/2iK4zkG
    https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

    SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian “metropolis” in the US.

    “Hongcouver” is even odder, considering their proximity to the gateway city of Seattle. Maybe they saw it coming, and took precautions?

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Nope, I live here. It was “racism would be worse than the virus” from the beginning.

    Vancouver is soft-shut-down now, has been for two weeks. But who knows how many Chinese flew in from China during the initial exodus from Wuhan.

    I’ve been saying around here for some time that the number of deaths in Vancouver is surprisingly low despite the demographics. One would expect bodies in the street by now given the rhetoric in the media.

    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.” Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    , @Neuday
    I've wondered about Hongcouver as well. When I heard about the virus's Canadian connection and how the virus affects those with high expression of ACE2 receptors (i.e, Asians), I thought perhaps the Canadians engineered the virus in an attempt to re-take Vancouver.
  72. @AnotherDad

    The good news is that this plague does not seem to be sweeping through Florida, or is sweeping very slowly, so perhaps the shutdown of communal events is working its magic and stopping the virus from throat-hopping the length of the peninsula, and it has very little grip in the panhandle.
     
    Yeah here, it's bright and sunny and 80 degrees (85 on my thermometer out back, but i'll defer to whatever the air base is reporting) and 75% humidity. Even inside it's 80 and 65% with the fan whirring nicely overhead.

    Makes it a bit harder for the virus to jump into your lungs ...

    Only downside is my eyelids get very heavy reading Steve's corona blog. About all i can muster the energy for is the occasional beach walk.

    The virus does seem to dislike hot sunny weather. But according to Ron Unz the reason for California’s relatively low incidence of cases is competent leadership, not favorable weather. All those big-brained Californians like London Breed and Eric Garcetti have the right answers while the rest of the country fumbles around like Frank Drebin on a stakeout. I guess Florida is likewise blessed with brilliant leaders–how lucky for you guys.

  73. @danand
    Deckin, what is really surprising is the low number of infections/deaths in San Francisco (pop ~900K). SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian "metropolis" in the US. Perhaps all their history with other communicable disease has made SF residents more careful/cautious?

    Walked past a homeless guy (which I now note for their relative rarity, rather than "ubiquitousness") near Union Square. He dropped and started doing push-ups, perhaps to demonstrate his health? But you're right, for the most part it's near ghost town. In the towns South of SF there is still at least a little activity.

    Today's numbers:
    https://flic.kr/p/2iK4zkG
    https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

    SF also doesn’t have a particularly high percentage of elderly people living within the city proper, have to consider that. SF is mostly a younger persons city.

  74. @Goatweed
    Per the Times of Israel, half the infected in Israel are ultra-Orthodox.

    Good Lord, have they been eating bat too? The Torah forbids it so they should know better. Or perhaps they too have a form of wet markets for eating exotic foods.

  75. @syonredux
    Corvinus is a parody account. Don't waste your time taking him seriously.

    Speaking of parody, laughs, good humor, etc. Hollywood has basically closed down for the foreseeable future. Shame. Also doesn’t help that a respected thespian of theirs such as Tom Hanks came down with it either.

  76. Great i-Steve content!

    20,000 new cases per day. 500 new deaths per day. 2,500 total deaths. Every state affected. Hospitals in crisis mode. Economy in tatters. What say Trump on Twitter?

    “President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise…”

    If that wasn’t bad enough, Trump insists that New York is “hoarding” ventilators…without realize this state is storing these devices they need in the next three weeks.

    How is Liberty University doing since Falwell Jr. opened it up? Well, apparently there are a dozen students who have symptoms similar to Covid-19. Is he legally accountable?

    President Trump to Sean Hannity: “A lot of equipment is being asked for that I don’t think they will need.”
    Member of media: How will that thinking impact how you fill their orders?
    Trump: I never said governors wouldn’t need the numbers they were asking for. (Note quote above.)

    More legal accountability? Fox News is concerned about potential legal action after misleading viewers about Corvid-19

  77. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    San Francisco Still Prioritizing Fighting Stigma …
     
    What would a mascot for “The Fighting Stigmas” look like?

    Jen, a transgender black dwarf with a full afro, standing in the classic Notre Dame Fighting Leprechaun pose with a banner above: “Non Tactus Capillos”….for those who missed out on Latin classes “Don’t touch my hair.”

    • LOL: snorlax
  78. @ben tillman
    I stated that normal people don't care about the perpetuation of stigma. How your insane brain could read that otherwise is a mystery.

    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00040/full

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-019-1271-3

    Again, quite odd you do not feel that way. Then again, maybe you just don’t trust research studies?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.
     
    How would you know what a normal person does or does not care about? Do you keep a normal person imprisoned in your basement for study?
    , @kihowi
    Go easy on us non-scientists, Corvinus. Not everybody has your iron grip on Reason and Logic and Google.
    , @More R1b, Less H1B
    lol did you really just google "stigma research" and post those links here? Definitely somebody who Fucking Loves Science
  79. @Rob
    I’m sure someone named Radhakrishna has the best interests of Americans foremost in mind. On the other hand, the people of San Francisco hate us and want us dead. So maybe it’s all to the good.

    On a different topic, while epidemiologists seem to think pathogens evolve towards lower virulence, that seems to me like something that depends on the pathogen’s lifestyle, and the hosts’ too. If SARS-CoV-2 is asymptomatic a lot of the time, those carriers aren’t sneezing, coughing, and blowing their noses nearly as often as those with symptoms. Doesn’t that mean that the virus has lots of room to evolve to be more virulent, so as to spread better, and presumably kill even more people as somewhat collateral damage? If no symptoms mean less spread to new hosts, along with less reproduction in the current host, more virulent genomes have an advantage in the host, and spreading to new hosts.

    If mildly ill people stay home and self isolate, but sicker hosts go to the hospital, spreading their germs on every surface they touch on the way, and in the waiting room before being seen, and then coughing on healthcare workers, doesn’t that provide a reproductive advantage to more virulent strains?

    Not to mention the possibility that it is spreading like mad in the Uighur concentration camps, that selects for greater virulence, like influenza was selected to be super virulent in the troop transports, trenches, and field hospitals of World War II.

    Maybe we’re putting a lot of faith in the exoN gene keeping the virus’ genome from mutating too much, and exploring varying levels of reproduction, and immune inhibition, and whatever else goes into virulence.

    If mildly ill people stay home and self isolate, but sicker hosts go to the hospital, spreading their germs on every surface they touch on the way, and in the waiting room before being seen, and then coughing on healthcare workers, doesn’t that provide a reproductive advantage to more virulent strains?

    I think you’ve nailed it. Hospital infections can be very nasty precisely because they do not depend on the host being ambulatory. Ideally we’d keep people with infectious diseases and any sort of infection in separate hospitals from where you go for surgery or chemo or with a heart attack.

    The sweet spot for a virus is really “the common cold”–you cough, sneeze, have a running nose–but you’re perfectly capable of continue to funAll these corona cases in the hospital–not good.

    Ideally anyone with bad symptoms from Covid-19 would be isolated world wide, and we’d be pushing hard–evolutionarily–against evolution toward severity.

  80. a debate is raging among public health experts over how much data on the spread of the virus should be released.

    Whaddya think, ya got a right to know what your government is doing when they put you on “lockdown”? Sheesh… ya think ya live in a free country, or something???

    Shaddap and do what the “experts” tell ya… that’s all ya need to know!*

    (*Spoken in a Cuomo/Italian-from-New-York accent…)

  81. @JohnnyWalker123

    what kind of Zionist conspiracy would try to kill people in New York?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHm56O2NTI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0AlR2eHQyg

    well played

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  82. They should make a magazine for people that test positive for Cov.

  83. @Steve Sailer
    So far, it's the more affluent Southern Californians along the coast and near the Hollywood Hills that are getting either hit harder. It's not clear if Chinese neighborhoods have disproportionately high rates.

    You guys are still confusing confirmed with tests vs having actually contracted the virus. Testing still lags. Rich people are getting tested first, not necessarily contracting it first.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  84. @danand
    Deckin, what is really surprising is the low number of infections/deaths in San Francisco (pop ~900K). SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian "metropolis" in the US. Perhaps all their history with other communicable disease has made SF residents more careful/cautious?

    Walked past a homeless guy (which I now note for their relative rarity, rather than "ubiquitousness") near Union Square. He dropped and started doing push-ups, perhaps to demonstrate his health? But you're right, for the most part it's near ghost town. In the towns South of SF there is still at least a little activity.

    Today's numbers:
    https://flic.kr/p/2iK4zkG
    https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

    The sheer charisma of this virus (from any modeling or rough getting-a-handle-on-it perspective) is truly awesome.

    I’m sure that’s what’s keeping us all from thinking about anything else. We want desperately to know, but the thing is so confounding. From the comments to Marginal Revolution we get European mortality data (which the site there does couch things with extreme caution) like this:

    https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

    From Worldometer (the data drug of choice for the doomsday model) –go to Daily Growth Factor–we get this:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/#cases-growth-factor

    Where’s the R0>2? Have we slowed it down that much?

    From the Milanese newspaper, absolutely no mention of excessive deaths–in fact, the top story today is about their stimulus package and after the same kinds of charts we all get everyday, they go, 2 stories down, to the crisis in NY!

    I think until I see good body counts for the relevant time series, it’s going to be erring on the side of extreme caution but without any assurance that we have any idea of what’s happening or why.

  85. I wonder if Chinatown in SF had wet markets until before this crisis.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there's water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.
  86. @Reg Cæsar

    SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian “metropolis” in the US.
     
    "Hongcouver" is even odder, considering their proximity to the gateway city of Seattle. Maybe they saw it coming, and took precautions?

    Nope, I live here. It was “racism would be worse than the virus” from the beginning.

    Vancouver is soft-shut-down now, has been for two weeks. But who knows how many Chinese flew in from China during the initial exodus from Wuhan.

    I’ve been saying around here for some time that the number of deaths in Vancouver is surprisingly low despite the demographics. One would expect bodies in the street by now given the rhetoric in the media.

    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.” Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Could humidity be the reason, both in Vancouver and San Francisco, for the low numbers?
    , @anon
    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.”

    Copying the Brits. Who are sposed to go out at some time like 7 or 8 and cheer for the NHS.

    Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Clown world vocalizing.
  87. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181184638648321

    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181185674743808

    That might be the most astounding thing I’ve read since the pandemic began.

  88. @BenKenobi
    Nope, I live here. It was “racism would be worse than the virus” from the beginning.

    Vancouver is soft-shut-down now, has been for two weeks. But who knows how many Chinese flew in from China during the initial exodus from Wuhan.

    I’ve been saying around here for some time that the number of deaths in Vancouver is surprisingly low despite the demographics. One would expect bodies in the street by now given the rhetoric in the media.

    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.” Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Could humidity be the reason, both in Vancouver and San Francisco, for the low numbers?

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Not sure, I'd only be speculating. Vancouver's "winter" mostly consists of rain from January to March and it rarely dips below zero degrees celsius. This winter was particularly wet.

    https://www.vancourier.com/news/vancouver-has-seen-its-longest-run-of-wet-weather-in-more-than-50-years-1.24070322
  89. @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Balkan Muslims are not well-known for their zealotry, with some exceptions. Being descended from people whom converted to get ahead under the Ottomans probably makes a difference.

  90. @Reg Cæsar
    The age cohorts would be useful if the data were also shown on a per capita basis. 7% of the cases and 65% of the deaths were of those 80 or older.

    As far as geography, the stats are by hospital, not residence, which would urbanize the results. Disconnecticut, of course, no longer has county governments. County data must come from the state, or the towns.

    By the way, Fairfield's fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester's next door (in New York) is suspicious-- eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?

    By the way, Fairfield’s fatality rate looks within normal range, but Westchester’s next door (in New York) is suspicious– eight times the number of cases, but half the deaths? WTV?

    Death rate has a lot to do with where Patient Zero started the epidemic in that locality. In a nursing home – very bad. In an Orthodox synagogue with lots of young people and kids – not so bad.

  91. @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Why would this be awkward? They are Muslim but not Arab. Historically they mostly got along with their own (small) Jewish communities back home. Prior to the Zionist movement, Christendom had a much worse history of anti-Semitism and pogroms than the Muslim world. Two years of Nazi occupation did far more damage to the Kosovo Jewish community than 500 years of Muslim rule.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Mr. D, that is unclear. Are you saying that the Nazi occupation was an act by "Christendom?"
  92. @Buzz Mohawk
    Could humidity be the reason, both in Vancouver and San Francisco, for the low numbers?

    Not sure, I’d only be speculating. Vancouver’s “winter” mostly consists of rain from January to March and it rarely dips below zero degrees celsius. This winter was particularly wet.

    https://www.vancourier.com/news/vancouver-has-seen-its-longest-run-of-wet-weather-in-more-than-50-years-1.24070322

  93. @Thomm
    I wonder if Chinatown in SF had wet markets until before this crisis.

    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there’s water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How do you know for certain what the wet markets in SF Chinatown sell?
    , @Johann Ricke

    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there’s water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.
     
    EU hysteria about using diluted bleach as a bug-killer aside, I suspect the Chinese could have had their bats without sparking off a pandemic if only they had slaughtered the bats on the spot, dipped them in chlorine wash and then frozen them. Given the long medicinal/homeopathic tradition behind this practice, I expect they'll have to start settling for frozen over fresh.
  94. anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @BenKenobi
    Nope, I live here. It was “racism would be worse than the virus” from the beginning.

    Vancouver is soft-shut-down now, has been for two weeks. But who knows how many Chinese flew in from China during the initial exodus from Wuhan.

    I’ve been saying around here for some time that the number of deaths in Vancouver is surprisingly low despite the demographics. One would expect bodies in the street by now given the rhetoric in the media.

    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.” Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.”

    Copying the Brits. Who are sposed to go out at some time like 7 or 8 and cheer for the NHS.

    Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Clown world vocalizing.

    • Thanks: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @Lurker
    I think we Brits were copying the Spanish and/or Italians. However our 8pm virtue signal doesn't feel very spontaneous. Ive witnessed it once, in a supermarket, a real North Korean/Orwellian vibe. But no one in my street has bothered.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Phyllis Schlafly once praised Brazilian housewives for doing the same thing. They weren't VSing, they were protesting ham-fisted government policies which the women felt at home in the kitchen.
  95. Here’s an independent reporter trying to confirm the tents outside NY Bellevue are a morgue:

    Ghost Town NYC – Pop Up Morgue at Bellevue Hospital on New York City’s East Side?

    No bodies stacked like cordwood are visible.

    Here’s an official scare video from the NYT:

    ‘People Are Dying’: Battling Coronavirus Inside a N.Y.C. Hospital | NYT News

    Frankly, the NYT video is dogshit. Lots of innuendo, scary text overlays, a picture of a refrigerated semi trailer that is supposedly full of bodies, hysterical nurse demanding ventilators, scare shots of nurses in PPE, scare shots of ventilators wrapped in plastic, etc.

    Give me a fucking break. Does not support the current mass hysteria on any level.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Plus once WCBS Newsradio gets its mitts on a soundbite of a clearly overwrought nurse crying about how "it's like a war zone in there" you can count on hearing it for the next six hours. Medical workers are under great risk but the media is using them to pull our strings.
    , @Hibernian
    I recognize the woman from another propaganda video of a day or two ago.
  96. @Reg Cæsar
    http://images.library.wisc.edu/Literature/EFacs/ParPressChap/Williams/M/0019.jpg


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gimvEyeTwAY

    “Killer Couples”
    Or: “The Check Is In The Mail”
    Or: Yes, I Remember Avian Flu

    https://www.oxygen.com/killer-couples

    Should June and Ward cleave together or cleave apart?

    See Also:
    Ward, did that federal coronavirus relief check come in time for us to make our mortgage payment?
    -[Un]Wontedly[?], it was late, June.

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/53744/adlestrop

    See Also the classic, “Ward, weren’t you a little hard on the Beaver last night?”

  97. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

    Italy: In Italy, there are several reasons why the CFR is higher. The age structure of the Italian population (2nd oldest in the world); highest rates of antibiotic resistance deaths in Europe (Italy tops the EU for antibiotic-resistance deaths, with nearly 1/3rd of the deaths in the EU). Smoking also seems to be a factor associated with poor survival – in Italy, 24% smoke, 28% men. In the UK, for instance, 15% are current smokers.

    Coronavirus: Is Covid-19 the cause of all the fatalities in Italy? Sarah Newy reports Italy’s death rate might also be higher because of how fatalities are recorded. In Italy, all those who die in hospitals with Coronavirus are included in the death counts.

    In this article, Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to, Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88% patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”

    Recording the numbers of those who die with Coronavirus will inflate the CFR as opposed to those that died from Coronavirus, which will deflate the CFR.

    It is also well known that Lombardy has some of the worst (if not the worst) air pollution in Europe, if not the worst. Wuhan also has bad air pollution.

    https://medium.com/@fcameronlister/coronavirus-is-there-something-in-the-air-45964b2f5b37

    That doesn’t just mean that people there are breathing polluted air now. It means that they have been breathing polluted air their whole lives.

  98. I left my needle in San Franshitsco……

    And my murderous illegal immigrant is free to roam about there….

  99. @Corvinus
    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00040/full

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-019-1271-3

    Again, quite odd you do not feel that way. Then again, maybe you just don't trust research studies?

    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    How would you know what a normal person does or does not care about? Do you keep a normal person imprisoned in your basement for study?

    • Replies: @reactionry
    I kept TWO normal persons imprisoned in my basement for company.
    - Wilhelm Frick

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvCCQaQCBU
    , @reactionry
    Triump of the Willis?
    Or: "Bring Out Your Dead"...Bring Out The....WHAT?!?

    My butt buddy pawnshop owner Maynard kept a guy imprisoned in his basement, but yeah, The Gimp wasn't what you'd call "normal."
    - Zed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kPqAV_74M

  100. @prosa123
    If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working?

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that "Oh no, I might have the infection!" has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off.
    Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that “Oh no, I might have the infection!” has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off. Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.

    Wuflu? Or Blueflu?

    • Replies: @guest007
    With all the talk of testing and tracing, one would think that the isolation of direct contacts is understood. Its one of the understated reasons while the let it burn strategy is a failure. No only does the healthcare system collapse but the local law enforcement and EMS also collapses.
  101. The daily death total in the United States is half of what it was yesterday. Newly detected infections are also down. I’d urge everyone to visit the site Ive linked below for the actual numbers. Reading tonight’s New York Times you’d suspect that things are spinning out of control, they aren’t, it’s getting better. If you want to be ahead of the curve, watch these numbers. The ”Trump Pills” are working.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    (Hit the small tab for Now / Yesterday)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'm hoping that's right, but remember that March 29th isn't even over in the Western half of the country.
  102. @Corvinus
    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00040/full

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-019-1271-3

    Again, quite odd you do not feel that way. Then again, maybe you just don't trust research studies?

    Go easy on us non-scientists, Corvinus. Not everybody has your iron grip on Reason and Logic and Google.

  103. @Bernard
    The daily death total in the United States is half of what it was yesterday. Newly detected infections are also down. I’d urge everyone to visit the site Ive linked below for the actual numbers. Reading tonight’s New York Times you’d suspect that things are spinning out of control, they aren’t, it’s getting better. If you want to be ahead of the curve, watch these numbers. The ”Trump Pills” are working.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    (Hit the small tab for Now / Yesterday)

    I’m hoping that’s right, but remember that March 29th isn’t even over in the Western half of the country.

    • Replies: @Bernard
    It’s GMT Steve, it’s over. Take a look again. ICU admissions were down in New York yesterday as well.
  104. @Mr. Anon

    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.
     
    How would you know what a normal person does or does not care about? Do you keep a normal person imprisoned in your basement for study?

    I kept TWO normal persons imprisoned in my basement for company.
    – Wilhelm Frick

  105. @Mr. Anon

    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.
     
    How would you know what a normal person does or does not care about? Do you keep a normal person imprisoned in your basement for study?

    Triump of the Willis?
    Or: “Bring Out Your Dead”…Bring Out The….WHAT?!?

    My butt buddy pawnshop owner Maynard kept a guy imprisoned in his basement, but yeah, The Gimp wasn’t what you’d call “normal.”
    – Zed

  106. @Steve Sailer
    I'm hoping that's right, but remember that March 29th isn't even over in the Western half of the country.

    It’s GMT Steve, it’s over. Take a look again. ICU admissions were down in New York yesterday as well.

  107. @James N. Kennett
    OT: Three doctors have died of coronavirus in the UK. All had Middle Eastern names; yet people of Middle Eastern ethnicity are a small minority of British doctors. Is it possible that Middle Easterners are more susceptible to the virus than other people?

    The doctors who died were:

    Dr Habib Zaidi - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-52040991
    Dr Adil El Tayar - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52064450
    Dr Amged El-Hawrani - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52084915

    The first guy is a Paki. The next two are Arabs.

    According to this site, “Asians” are about 30% of NHS doctors. These are primarily South Asians.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/nhs-workforce/latest

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/chart/ethnic-profile-of-nhs-doctors-in-england-compared-with-total-population

    “Other” constitute 4% of doctors. I’m not sure if Arabs are included in this fraction.

    So an ethnic group (South+West Asian) that forms at most 30-34% of the England physician population is 100% of the first three Corona-related physician deaths. That’s pretty interesting.

    It’s particularly interesting that Southern Euros have been hit way harder than Northern Euros. Iran has been hit pretty hard too….

  108. @Redneck farmer
    You'd think Doc Radhakrishna, going by his name, wouldn't care about people from China being offended.

    What are his credentials and how was he selected? Tired of the South Asian invasion.

  109. @Steve Sailer
    "Why is Mr. Sailer compelled to be on the offensive regarding certain groups of people and imply they are primarily culpable for the spread of a potent virus? What is the endgame on his part?"

    Uh ... knowledge? Which is good? Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn't know anything about before New Year's Eve.

    But, no, of course not, it's all part of my vicious anti-skier animus. You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I've kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I've been writing.

    Uh … knowledge? Which is good?

    If it’s good enough for Faber College and Steve, it’s good enough for me.

  110. @Jack D
    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there's water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.

    How do you know for certain what the wet markets in SF Chinatown sell?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Well, if they do, they keep them in the back where the white devils can't see them.
  111. Considering the lying and corruption in our government…without extensive identifying, verifiable data…it is hard to believe the government.

  112. @Jack D
    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there's water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.

    Depends what you mean by wet market? A place with live lobsters and fish and crabs and frogs and there’s water and fish guts sloshing all over the place? Yes. Places to buy bats and pangolins? Nope.

    EU hysteria about using diluted bleach as a bug-killer aside, I suspect the Chinese could have had their bats without sparking off a pandemic if only they had slaughtered the bats on the spot, dipped them in chlorine wash and then frozen them. Given the long medicinal/homeopathic tradition behind this practice, I expect they’ll have to start settling for frozen over fresh.

  113. anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.
     
    Why would this be awkward? They are Muslim but not Arab. Historically they mostly got along with their own (small) Jewish communities back home. Prior to the Zionist movement, Christendom had a much worse history of anti-Semitism and pogroms than the Muslim world. Two years of Nazi occupation did far more damage to the Kosovo Jewish community than 500 years of Muslim rule.

    Mr. D, that is unclear. Are you saying that the Nazi occupation was an act by “Christendom?”

  114. @anon
    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.”

    Copying the Brits. Who are sposed to go out at some time like 7 or 8 and cheer for the NHS.

    Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Clown world vocalizing.

    I think we Brits were copying the Spanish and/or Italians. However our 8pm virtue signal doesn’t feel very spontaneous. Ive witnessed it once, in a supermarket, a real North Korean/Orwellian vibe. But no one in my street has bothered.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    Update: Apparently the neighbours did respond. Of course I missed it - not being here.
  115. @James N. Kennett
    OT: Three doctors have died of coronavirus in the UK. All had Middle Eastern names; yet people of Middle Eastern ethnicity are a small minority of British doctors. Is it possible that Middle Easterners are more susceptible to the virus than other people?

    The doctors who died were:

    Dr Habib Zaidi - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-52040991
    Dr Adil El Tayar - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52064450
    Dr Amged El-Hawrani - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52084915

    They have to share their coronavirus hand with their wiping or eating hand.

  116. Stigma, I’ll give you stigma. Give stigma to all the pussy hat wearing crowd who love their doggies and kitties, and consider them “JUST LIKE FAMILY”.

    When the mainstream media, if they ever start mainstreaming these images…the blowback will be bigger than any COVID-19 could ever muster up.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8163761/Chinese-markets-selling-bats.html

  117. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Here's an independent reporter trying to confirm the tents outside NY Bellevue are a morgue:

    Ghost Town NYC – Pop Up Morgue at Bellevue Hospital on New York City's East Side?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzCN-3dioOA

    No bodies stacked like cordwood are visible.

    Here's an official scare video from the NYT:

    ‘People Are Dying’: Battling Coronavirus Inside a N.Y.C. Hospital | NYT News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE68xVXf8Kw

    Frankly, the NYT video is dogshit. Lots of innuendo, scary text overlays, a picture of a refrigerated semi trailer that is supposedly full of bodies, hysterical nurse demanding ventilators, scare shots of nurses in PPE, scare shots of ventilators wrapped in plastic, etc.

    Give me a fucking break. Does not support the current mass hysteria on any level.

    Plus once WCBS Newsradio gets its mitts on a soundbite of a clearly overwrought nurse crying about how “it’s like a war zone in there” you can count on hearing it for the next six hours. Medical workers are under great risk but the media is using them to pull our strings.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    And it's barely 90 minutes later and I swear to God I just heard "It's just like a war zone" from yet another NYC nurse (this one sounding cooler, more composed and rehearsed)
  118. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181184638648321

    https://twitter.com/RepBonnie/status/1243181185674743808

    “. . . minority and women owned businesses were given the opportunity to work on federal, state, and local projects . . . “

    How stupid or deceptive do you have to be to think that not giving preference to certain groups is the same thing as denying those groups the opportunity? After God-knows how many years of giving “minorities and women-owned businesses” handouts, can’t they by now compete with businesses owned by White Males? Sounds like she believes in the indefatigable supremacy of White men. If we’re allowed to compete as equals, the POC and women might as well not even show up. Based!

    • Replies: @Biggest Shoe
    I know a guy who does a lot of gov't contract work in Nebraska. He says most of these minority or women owned businesses may be officially owned by a minority or a woman, but the owner in these cases has NOTHING to do with the business.
  119. @Farenheit
    Just so you know, California recently passed a law in the education code changing all instances of the term "at risk youth" to "at promise youth". So this Orwellian denial and obscuration of the truth is full spectrum in the used to be Golden State.

    “. . . in the used to be Golden State.”

    Oh, you can still call it the Golden State, cuz’ it’s been pissed away.

  120. @Reg Cæsar

    SF must be among the lowest in deaths of any high percentage Asian “metropolis” in the US.
     
    "Hongcouver" is even odder, considering their proximity to the gateway city of Seattle. Maybe they saw it coming, and took precautions?

    I’ve wondered about Hongcouver as well. When I heard about the virus’s Canadian connection and how the virus affects those with high expression of ACE2 receptors (i.e, Asians), I thought perhaps the Canadians engineered the virus in an attempt to re-take Vancouver.

  121. Anonymous[343] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes
    In San Francisco and environs, ideology triumphs over reality every time!

    Only 5 dead, 340 infected last I saw. Excellent epidemic stats for a city of about 800,000 full of Chinese immigrants, male gays, tourists, visitors, with a busy international airport.

    • Disagree: Dan Hayes
  122. @Obamahotep
    I'm confused - even if the data showed clusters in homosexual or asian groups, wouldnt that just be more evidence of how white cis patriarchy creates a world that inherently discriminates against everyone else?

    I’m confused – even if the data showed clusters in homosexual or asian groups, wouldnt that just be more evidence of how white cis patriarchy creates a world that inherently discriminates against everyone else?

    It works like all other inconvenient data and hard facts for the true believers – they of course believe that the data yields the only possible conclusion that it is evidence of oppression, but they know that should the data get into the hands of someone the likes of you or Mr. Sailer that it’ll be used for nefarious purposes such as questioning the desirability of mass immigration/open borders or the public health effects of the sexual habits of the LGBQT and sometimes Y community.

    You can only be trusted to have access to data if you’re already a professed adherent of this religion and have therefore drawn the correct conclusions prior to receiving it.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    but they know that should the data get into the hands of someone the likes of you or Mr. Sailer that it’ll be used for nefarious purposes such as questioning the desirability of mass immigration/open borders or the public health effects of the sexual habits of the LGBQT and sometimes Y community.
     
    What does "Y" stand-for? Dare I ask?

    I agree with what you have articulated.

  123. @anon
    Point of interest: for about a week now at 7pm lots of people go to their balconies and bang pots and pans and make lots of noise as a “sign of appreciation for health care workers.”

    Copying the Brits. Who are sposed to go out at some time like 7 or 8 and cheer for the NHS.

    Just more tiresome virtue signalling.

    Clown world vocalizing.

    Phyllis Schlafly once praised Brazilian housewives for doing the same thing. They weren’t VSing, they were protesting ham-fisted government policies which the women felt at home in the kitchen.

  124. @Anonymous
    San Francisco is basically run by Chinese so it's no surprising that saving their own reputation is the priority.

    I don't get why people say the Chinese/East Asians are so "based" when in reality the cities full of and run by Chinese/East Asians are the biggest leftist dumps in the US. Maybe they're "based" in their own countries, but when they get to the US they seem more willing than anyone to jump on the open borders, LGBT, rainbow flag socialist bandwagon.

    I’ve been posting for years that Asians may be entrepreneurial, capitalist but they are officially 40% of the population of San Francisco. That’s just the census. Asians don’t fill out the forms for the first 2 generations. So there are probably more than appears in the census.

    Despite all the whining about prejudice, they’ve been a power in San Francisco since 1850. Yet the city gets crazier and crazier as Asian population and power increases.

    And more of them are involved in brothels, illegal gambling, even worse shylocking associated with illegal gambling and extortion than being genius physicians dentists etc.

    Hate the homeless for being insane drug addicts all you want. The truth is, homelessness is caused by the fact that the Chinese are happy to
    live 25 in a 1,000 sq ft house which has driven rents to astronomical levels.

  125. @Known Fact
    Plus once WCBS Newsradio gets its mitts on a soundbite of a clearly overwrought nurse crying about how "it's like a war zone in there" you can count on hearing it for the next six hours. Medical workers are under great risk but the media is using them to pull our strings.

    And it’s barely 90 minutes later and I swear to God I just heard “It’s just like a war zone” from yet another NYC nurse (this one sounding cooler, more composed and rehearsed)

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Cleaners are on the front lines, fighting the COVID-19 NAZIS!!!!

    On the frontlines fighting COVID-19… for $17.30 an hour

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/on-the-frontlines-fighting-covid-19-for-1730-an-hour-2020-03-30?mod=home-page

    So, what's wrong with the picture on this story?

    Correct, if you said, "all the empty unused beds!"
  126. @Corvinus
    Actually, normal people do care about the perception of stigma. Here are some examples.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00040/full

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-019-1271-3

    Again, quite odd you do not feel that way. Then again, maybe you just don't trust research studies?

    lol did you really just google “stigma research” and post those links here? Definitely somebody who Fucking Loves Science

  127. @Known Fact
    And it's barely 90 minutes later and I swear to God I just heard "It's just like a war zone" from yet another NYC nurse (this one sounding cooler, more composed and rehearsed)

    Cleaners are on the front lines, fighting the COVID-19 NAZIS!!!!

    On the frontlines fighting COVID-19… for $17.30 an hour

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/on-the-frontlines-fighting-covid-19-for-1730-an-hour-2020-03-30?mod=home-page

    So, what’s wrong with the picture on this story?

    Correct, if you said, “all the empty unused beds!”

  128. @Neuday

    ". . . minority and women owned businesses were given the opportunity to work on federal, state, and local projects . . . "
     
    How stupid or deceptive do you have to be to think that not giving preference to certain groups is the same thing as denying those groups the opportunity? After God-knows how many years of giving "minorities and women-owned businesses" handouts, can't they by now compete with businesses owned by White Males? Sounds like she believes in the indefatigable supremacy of White men. If we're allowed to compete as equals, the POC and women might as well not even show up. Based!

    I know a guy who does a lot of gov’t contract work in Nebraska. He says most of these minority or women owned businesses may be officially owned by a minority or a woman, but the owner in these cases has NOTHING to do with the business.

  129. @Lurker
    I think we Brits were copying the Spanish and/or Italians. However our 8pm virtue signal doesn't feel very spontaneous. Ive witnessed it once, in a supermarket, a real North Korean/Orwellian vibe. But no one in my street has bothered.

    Update: Apparently the neighbours did respond. Of course I missed it – not being here.

  130. @Mr. Anon

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that “Oh no, I might have the infection!” has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off. Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.
     
    Wuflu? Or Blueflu?

    With all the talk of testing and tracing, one would think that the isolation of direct contacts is understood. Its one of the understated reasons while the let it burn strategy is a failure. No only does the healthcare system collapse but the local law enforcement and EMS also collapses.

  131. @prosa123
    If one looks at the Covid tests results coming out of NYC, about one percentage of the total confirmed cases in the U.S. are employees of the City of New York. Does anyone really believe that 700 law enforcement officer and 300 plus fire fighters were infected while working?

    Absenteeism in the NYPD has been running at unprecedented high levels, way beyond the number of cops that have actually tested positive. My guess is that "Oh no, I might have the infection!" has become a handy justification for some (paid) days off.
    Of course the NYPD is comically overstaffed, the FDNY is even worse, so all this absenteeism is largely irrelevant from a public safety perspective.

    Anyone that’s been in (unprotected) contact with a Confirmed have to self isolate for 14 days, to be safe. Can deplete the staff quickly.

  132. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How do you know for certain what the wet markets in SF Chinatown sell?

    Well, if they do, they keep them in the back where the white devils can’t see them.

  133. @prosa123
    An awful lot spread from Orthodox Jews, from what I know. Hasidim in particular–they’re really insular and have a lot of gatherings.

    I'm not sure if the Connecticut town figures bear that out. At least as far as the Orthodox are concerned, Connecticut doesn't have many Hasidim. Waterbury has a substantial and growing Orthodox Jewish community,* but its virus figures don't seem out of line given its size. Stamford is of similar population but has more than twice as many cases. The differences between the cities probably result from NYC proximity: Stamford is in the heart of the city's commuter zone, while Waterbury is at the extreme fringe. West Hartford has long had a very large Jewish population, many Orthodox, but the virus has hardly touched it at all.
    One city that does surprise me is Danbury. It's near the edge of the NYC commuter zone, as far as I know does not have a significant Orthodox population, yet it has a high number of cases. Oh, and the complete lack of cases in Somers doesn't square well with the notion that the virus spreads rapidly in densely populated environments, as several thousand of that town's "residents" are prison inmates.

    * = Waterbury's Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    * = Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.

    Heavily Orthodox Jewish Kensington neighborhood in Flatbush section of Brooklyn is side by side with Bangladeshi/Pakistani Muslim neighborhood . One can literally see the store signs change along Coney Island Ave, from English (with some Hebrew) to Urdu/? from 1 block to the next. There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.
     
    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the "hate each other" part.
    As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).
    , @Hibernian
    Serbs and Croats in Chicago generally don't shoot each other much.
  134. In Late February, Nancy Pelosi Encouraged Large Groups to Congregate in Chinatown

    Yet blamed Trump’s early “denial” for spread of coronavirus.

    A video clip from late February shows Nancy Pelosi encouraging large groups of people to congregate in San Francisco’s Chinatown before she would later go on to blame President Trump’s early “denial” for the spread of coronavirus.

    The footage, which was taken on February 24th, is introduced by a reporter noting how Pelosi wanted residents to understand how it’s “perfectly safe to be here” in Chinatown.

    “We do want to say to people, come to Chinatown, here we are…come join us,” said Pelosi.

    https://summit.news/2020/03/30/in-late-february-nancy-pelosi-encouraged-large-groups-to-congregate-in-chinatown/

  135. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I’m confused – even if the data showed clusters in homosexual or asian groups, wouldnt that just be more evidence of how white cis patriarchy creates a world that inherently discriminates against everyone else?
     
    It works like all other inconvenient data and hard facts for the true believers - they of course believe that the data yields the only possible conclusion that it is evidence of oppression, but they know that should the data get into the hands of someone the likes of you or Mr. Sailer that it'll be used for nefarious purposes such as questioning the desirability of mass immigration/open borders or the public health effects of the sexual habits of the LGBQT and sometimes Y community.

    You can only be trusted to have access to data if you're already a professed adherent of this religion and have therefore drawn the correct conclusions prior to receiving it.

    but they know that should the data get into the hands of someone the likes of you or Mr. Sailer that it’ll be used for nefarious purposes such as questioning the desirability of mass immigration/open borders or the public health effects of the sexual habits of the LGBQT and sometimes Y community.

    What does “Y” stand-for? Dare I ask?

    I agree with what you have articulated.

  136. @J.Ross
    South Asians =! South-East Asians =! the Han menace =! North-East Asians. North-East Asians have high-trust societies that work as well or better than European ones. I do not recall anybody ever saying that the Chinese were a good model, except as obvious jokes, like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, or that one Australian who went out of his way to visit Israel.

    And I was hoping for a good comment. Ah, well.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Do you have an example of people who are neither idiots nor traitors saying that Xi Jinping Thought is totally the way to go?
  137. @kaganovitch
    * = Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.


    Heavily Orthodox Jewish Kensington neighborhood in Flatbush section of Brooklyn is side by side with Bangladeshi/Pakistani Muslim neighborhood . One can literally see the store signs change along Coney Island Ave, from English (with some Hebrew) to Urdu/? from 1 block to the next. There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.

    There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.

    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the “hate each other” part.
    As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the “hate each other” part. As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).


    I am not speaking for myself at all. I have no animus against either Christians or Muslims, and number many as friends. It is simply a fact though, that these communities as a general statement hate each other. Whether, as you would doubtless contend, it's all the fault of the Zionists, and without their pernicious influence we would love each other dearly, it's still a fact that these communities hate each other. Culturally , though they are mutually comfortable with each other because of sharing a fundamentally religious weltanschauung, as opposed to a secular worldview.
  138. @Anaonymous
    And I was hoping for a good comment. Ah, well.

    Do you have an example of people who are neither idiots nor traitors saying that Xi Jinping Thought is totally the way to go?

  139. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Here's an independent reporter trying to confirm the tents outside NY Bellevue are a morgue:

    Ghost Town NYC – Pop Up Morgue at Bellevue Hospital on New York City's East Side?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzCN-3dioOA

    No bodies stacked like cordwood are visible.

    Here's an official scare video from the NYT:

    ‘People Are Dying’: Battling Coronavirus Inside a N.Y.C. Hospital | NYT News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE68xVXf8Kw

    Frankly, the NYT video is dogshit. Lots of innuendo, scary text overlays, a picture of a refrigerated semi trailer that is supposedly full of bodies, hysterical nurse demanding ventilators, scare shots of nurses in PPE, scare shots of ventilators wrapped in plastic, etc.

    Give me a fucking break. Does not support the current mass hysteria on any level.

    I recognize the woman from another propaganda video of a day or two ago.

  140. @kaganovitch
    * = Waterbury’s Orthodox live in close proximity to a substantial Albanian/Kosovar Muslim community, which may sound awkward but by all accounts everyone gets along just fine.


    Heavily Orthodox Jewish Kensington neighborhood in Flatbush section of Brooklyn is side by side with Bangladeshi/Pakistani Muslim neighborhood . One can literally see the store signs change along Coney Island Ave, from English (with some Hebrew) to Urdu/? from 1 block to the next. There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.

    Serbs and Croats in Chicago generally don’t shoot each other much.

  141. @Corvinus
    "Uh … knowledge? Which is good?"

    It's more than "knowledge". It's the pushing of a particular narrative. But remain cagey at your peril!

    "Especially when confronted with a massive problem we didn’t know anything about before New Year’s Eve."

    That is other than accurate. The signs were there of a coming pandemic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/pandemic-coronavirus-united-states-trump-cdc/608215/

    We were warned in 2018 and 2019, when the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security gathered public-health experts, business leaders, and U.S. government officials for simulations of the devastating humanitarian, political, social, and economic consequences of fictional novel coronaviruses that left tens of millions dead around the world. Participants exited the events thinking, “‘Oh my god, we really need to get working on this,’” Eric Toner, who helped run the exercises, told me. Two months after the second simulation, a novel coronavirus (albeit with what appears to be a substantially lower lethality rate than the fictional viruses in the scenarios at Johns Hopkins) emerged in China.

    We were warned in 2019 of the grave hazards of a new influenza pandemic by the U.S. intelligence community in its annual “worldwide threat assessment.” They had also cautioned us in 2018. And in 2017. And in 2016. And in 2015. And in 2014. And in 2013, when intelligence officials pleaded, “This is not a hypothetical threat. History is replete with examples of pathogens sweeping populations that lack immunity, causing political and economic upheaval.” (The 2020 worldwide threat assessment, which reportedly yet again flagged America’s vulnerability to a flu pandemic, has been postponed without explanation.)
     
    And lest you not NOTICE, at the start of the coronavirus epidemic, Trump chose to treat MEDICINE like POLITICS and the situation as a public relations event. Then, (poof), a talking to by a Fox News analyst (Tucker Carlson), and soon he (and others) reluctantly acknowledge that MEDICINE is MEDICINE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=emb_title

    How is the CDC and other federal officials suppose to take the initiative if Trump or his cronies gets in the way? Are they not beholden to HIS instructions as the head of the executive branch? Does not everything have to go through him first? We have the people to do it, correct? So why are they being hamstrung?

    https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-running-shadow-coronavirus-task-force-testing-1493153

    "You can tell just how anti-skier I am by how I’ve kept my hatred of skiers hidden over the previous 30 or so years I’ve been writing."

    Thanks for the strawman. The three little pigs appreciate it!

    Yes, Trump is uniquely to blame, even as the pandemic is raging harder and faster in pretty much every country in Western Europe than it is in the US.

  142. @Dissident

    There are ways in which religiously conservative social groups, even ones that hate each other, are culturally comfortable in close proximity.
     
    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the "hate each other" part.
    As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).

    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the “hate each other” part. As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).

    I am not speaking for myself at all. I have no animus against either Christians or Muslims, and number many as friends. It is simply a fact though, that these communities as a general statement hate each other. Whether, as you would doubtless contend, it’s all the fault of the Zionists, and without their pernicious influence we would love each other dearly, it’s still a fact that these communities hate each other. Culturally , though they are mutually comfortable with each other because of sharing a fundamentally religious weltanschauung, as opposed to a secular worldview.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    I am not speaking for myself at all. I have no animus against either Christians or Muslims, and number many as friends.
     
    While I am glad you clarified that, I must note that my point in saying Speak for yourself was not so much to suggest that you personally harbored such animus but rather to clearly, emphatically and unequivocally dispute the categorical, unqualified blanket statement you had made that Orthodox Jews and Muslims hate each other.

    Whether, as you would doubtless contend, it’s all the fault of the Zionists, and without their pernicious influence we would love each other dearly,
     
    I never made any such claim. What I have pointed-out, in numerous past comments, concerning the matter-in-question is the following. (A) That in the pre-Zionist era, Jews, on the whole, fared relatively well in Muslim lands; and (B) prior to the establishment of the Zionist State, Jews and Arabs lived together peaceably, as neighbors in the Holy Land (again, on the whole; for the most part). These are both historical facts. In support of the second, I have cited the personal recollections of an elderly rabbi and his wife who lived in Jerusalem during the pre-1948 era that a friend of mine related hearing directly from them to me. [1]

    The choice that you have presented, between "love each other dearly" and hate is a false and preposterous one. It is much like the false Woke denial of reality vs. virulent bigotry dichotomy. The one under which the enforcers of Goodthink, equating HBD with "White Supremacy", unperson our host Mr. Sailer and all those, such as us, who dare to defy said commissars' anathematizations.

    Love? What man can honestly claim even to love all of the members of whatever extended group he considers his own[2], much less a foreign one? Professions of love for the latter, and certainly for mankind, are invariably and inevitably hollow and self-aggrandizing. That does not, however, leave hate as the only alternative, or even as the default one. Between the extremes of love and hate lie an entire range of sentiment, attitude and approach.

    NOTES
    [1] I could also cite the account of Rabbi Baruch Kaplan of blessed memory (a key figure in establishing the Beis Yaakov network of girls' schools in America) of his experience living through the infamous massacre that occurred in Chevron (Hebron) in 1929, while a student in the renowned yeshiva in that Holy Land town.

    [2] In Judaism, the imperative to love each and every fellow Jew as if he were oneself is a lofty ideal that we are all commanded to strive toward but that few fully achieve.

  143. @kaganovitch
    Speak for yourself, please, concerning the “hate each other” part. As an Orthodox Jew, I am far from alone in hating neither Muslims nor Christians or other White non-Jews. Some elaboration at this past comment of mine (#329 in linked thread).


    I am not speaking for myself at all. I have no animus against either Christians or Muslims, and number many as friends. It is simply a fact though, that these communities as a general statement hate each other. Whether, as you would doubtless contend, it's all the fault of the Zionists, and without their pernicious influence we would love each other dearly, it's still a fact that these communities hate each other. Culturally , though they are mutually comfortable with each other because of sharing a fundamentally religious weltanschauung, as opposed to a secular worldview.

    I am not speaking for myself at all. I have no animus against either Christians or Muslims, and number many as friends.

    While I am glad you clarified that, I must note that my point in saying Speak for yourself was not so much to suggest that you personally harbored such animus but rather to clearly, emphatically and unequivocally dispute the categorical, unqualified blanket statement you had made that Orthodox Jews and Muslims hate each other.

    Whether, as you would doubtless contend, it’s all the fault of the Zionists, and without their pernicious influence we would love each other dearly,

    I never made any such claim. What I have pointed-out, in numerous past comments, concerning the matter-in-question is the following.

    [MORE]
    (A) That in the pre-Zionist era, Jews, on the whole, fared relatively well in Muslim lands; and (B) prior to the establishment of the Zionist State, Jews and Arabs lived together peaceably, as neighbors in the Holy Land (again, on the whole; for the most part). These are both historical facts. In support of the second, I have cited the personal recollections of an elderly rabbi and his wife who lived in Jerusalem during the pre-1948 era that a friend of mine related hearing directly from them to me. [1]

    The choice that you have presented, between “love each other dearly” and hate is a false and preposterous one. It is much like the false Woke denial of reality vs. virulent bigotry dichotomy. The one under which the enforcers of Goodthink, equating HBD with “White Supremacy”, unperson our host Mr. Sailer and all those, such as us, who dare to defy said commissars’ anathematizations.

    Love? What man can honestly claim even to love all of the members of whatever extended group he considers his own[2], much less a foreign one? Professions of love for the latter, and certainly for mankind, are invariably and inevitably hollow and self-aggrandizing. That does not, however, leave hate as the only alternative, or even as the default one. Between the extremes of love and hate lie an entire range of sentiment, attitude and approach.

    NOTES
    [1] I could also cite the account of Rabbi Baruch Kaplan of blessed memory (a key figure in establishing the Beis Yaakov network of girls’ schools in America) of his experience living through the infamous massacre that occurred in Chevron (Hebron) in 1929, while a student in the renowned yeshiva in that Holy Land town.

    [2] In Judaism, the imperative to love each and every fellow Jew as if he were oneself is a lofty ideal that we are all commanded to strive toward but that few fully achieve.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The unspoken statistical reality of urban crime over the last quarter century.
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
How a Young Syndicate Lawyer from Chicago Earned a Fortune Looting the Property of the Japanese-Americans, then Lived...
Becker update V1.3.2