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Sainted Whistleblower Is Actually CIA
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From the New York Times:

… The whistle-blower, a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House at one point, first expressed his concerns anonymously to the agency’s top lawyer. …

Dean Baquet, the executive editor of The New York Times, said The Times was right to publish information about the whistle-blower. “The president and some of his supporters have attacked the credibility of the whistle-blower, who has presented information that has touched off a landmark impeachment proceeding,’’ Mr. Baquet said. “The president himself has called the whistle-blower’s account a ‘political hack job.’’’

Mr. Baquet added, “We decided to publish limited information about the whistle-blower — including the fact that he works for a nonpolitical agency and that his complaint is based on an intimate knowledge and understanding of the White House — because we wanted to provide information to readers that allows them to make their own judgments about whether or not he is credible. We also understand that the White House already knew he was a C.I.A. officer.”

Huh … I’d assumed the whistleblower was a Karen Silkwood-type, a simple low-level American worker who’d stumbled upon Incriminating Information. Now he turns out instead to be CIA.

I worry that this could lead to Conspiracy Theories.

When you belong to the Intelligence Community, you never Bowl Alone.

Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”

 
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  1. This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

    • Agree: Colin Wright, byrresheim
    • Disagree: Anononymous
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Prof. Woland

    Stalin-level of ultra-cynical, but not impossible.

    https://i.imgur.com/NY3M89w.gif


    he works for a nonpolitical agency
     
    Comrades, please!
    , @George
    @Prof. Woland

    An alternative theory is the leaker was a lone screwball.

    The woman who knew nothing much but leaked it anyway and ended up in the can:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

    FWIW, Winner was probably 'radiclized' but it seems to me to be certain she was bowling alone.

    , @Charles Pewitt
    @Prof. Woland


    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

     

    If it ain't Ben and Jerry's New York City pal Bernie Sanders as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see millions of voters go for the Green Party.

    Elizabeth Warren, as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, won't be able to keep the Green Party from getting big vote totals in important Electoral College states. Warren skepticism from millions of voters will balloon the vote totals for the Green Party.

    If Joe Biden is the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see the Green Party bursting at the seams with all the votes they will get.

    If the Green Party grabs the allegiance of millions of voters after it is clear who the Democrat Party presidential nominee is, you'll see the corporate propaganda apparatus give wide media coverage of a Ross Perot/Pat Buchanan/Alt-Right candidate and political party to siphon votes from Trump and the Republican Party.

    First past the post electoral systems naturally creates a two-party system, but sometimes, as in England and the USA now, situations arise where the two major parties splinter asunder and new political groupings emerge.

    Replies: @Redman, @Cato

  2. How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jack Henson

    When you're part of the Intelligence Community, you never Bowl Alone.

    , @kaganovitch
    @Jack Henson

    17 if you can believe it . Yes 17. Fwiw each of the armed forces has its own I.A. none of which are part of DIA.

    Replies: @bored identity

    , @Lot
    @Jack Henson

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    Replies: @Hail, @Twinkie, @Bardon Kaldian, @slumber_j

    , @Rufio Panman Fan
    @Jack Henson

    They all ultimately answer to the Mossad. I don't know of it's blackmail or fear of the Sampson Option (look it up) but that's the world we live in.

    Replies: @Olorin

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Each of the armed services has an intelligence branch (4); there are several civilian agencies under the Secretary of Defense (4); there's a small (300 headcount) analytical service in the State Department; (1); there's a Bush-Ridge era something-or-other in the Treasury department (1), another such office in the Energy department (1), and another such office in Homeland Security (1); a couple of the federal police services are also classified as 'intelligence agencies' (2); and then there's the CIA (1). I think I missed a few. It looks like something you might profitably re-arrange. Then you remember that the last time Congress and the President moved agencies around, you got the Homeland Security department, which is top-heavy with deputy secretaries, undersecretaries, deputy undersecretaries, and what not and which has a rather indistinct mission, as well as components with bad seminal cultures (e.g. TSA).

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Jack Henson


    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have?
     
    If you include counter-intelligence, lots of 'em - including ones you never heard of.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @R.G. Camara

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Jack Henson

    My niece's husband works for an intelligence agency, the NGA. He's fanatically anti-Trump. I met another guy recently whose brother works for the FBI. He told me that his brother wears a t-shirt at the gym that says "Proud Agent of the Deep State." These people have picked a side and are confident they'll win.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Corvinus

    , @SaneClownPosse
    @Jack Henson

    Naval Intelligence was America's first spy organization.
    Naval attaches posted to US embassies were the equivalent of a CIA Chief of Station.

  3. a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House at one point

    In what capacity are CIA officers “detailed” to the White House?

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Anonymous


    In what capacity are CIA officers “detailed” to the White House?
     
    To collect intelligence...of course...

    (Posted the the NSC, AFAIK.)
    , @Prester John
    @Anonymous

    Hmmm....!!

  4. Maybe Trump getting caught was part of his master plan?

    • LOL: Kronos, IHTG
  5. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    When you’re part of the Intelligence Community, you never Bowl Alone.

  6. Well, trump does appear to be crashing this plane…..

    ….WITH NO SURVIVORS!

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @anonymous


    Well, trump does appear to be crashing this plane...WITH NO SURVIVORS!
     
    You gotta love Sailer - no post is too stupid to be published.
  7. https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anonymous

    Interesting. I don't have a way of knowing how well funded the propaganda networks are, but it does seem like they're asking for money more often than in the past, and the local station is saying that their fall pledge drive failed to hit the mark.
    Supposedly all the big media brands recovered from the subscription failure and fraud which was exposed in 2016, borne aloft solely by Trump derangement syndrome -- but that information comes from people who had already been caught lying about their subscription numbers.

    , @donvonburg
    @Anonymous


    Before you cancel your New York Times subscription: Do you think our country would be better off without the New York Times, or with an under-funded New York Times?
     
    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That's an easy one.

    Replies: @Anon, @BenKenobi

    , @bomag
    @Anonymous


    But man, more than ever, we need to support serious, hard-hitting journalism
     
    Give to iSteve.
    , @Bugg
    @Anonymous

    We don't hear much about Carlos Slim any more. We know having tons of illegals in the US buying his ripoff phone cards and making remittances from El Norte is very good for his bottom line. The Times never talks about those things when it discusses immigration. The 1619 nonsense is a great way to deflect any discussions of the exploitation of 3rd world Latinos by their conquistador/Falange betters, as long as the later are paying the Times' bills. The Sulzburger family is perfectly happy to take money from an oligarch and then ignore his manifestly exploitive business practices. If they are in fact looking for money they would be willing to look the other way about any such benefactor again.

    , @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Yes, the country would be better off without most of the media. I doubt there are many reporters anymore, by which I mean people like the Kilgallans (father and daughter) who saw it as their vocation to tell stories of any and all kinds. Fun fact: three of James Kilgallan's four great-grandchildren work in media and communications, but none of them are reporters.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    @Anonymous

    I thought the New York Times was the CIA?

    Perhaps I have been dumbed down by reading this internet stuff.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    I can't understand how #CancelNYT works as a left-wing mob. Of course we have dummy lumpencons who blanche at the thought of any "blown cover" or harsh words said in anger against the noble Army/Navy/Air Force/CIA/NSA (comprising "our brave men in uniform," am I right). However, making an admittedly huge exception for Valerie Plame, I can't recall liberals giving a damn about cover-blowing. In the 70s they egged it on. For an exception to test the rule, the Plame affair was obviously phony and opportunistic, to the point that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby didn't think before idly mocking it to other Journalists. Not to mention it was led by NatSec lifer bureaucrat Republicans, with the MoveOn/HuffPo sheep following in the fun.

    In the Bidenkrainegate case, not only was the "undercover" agent already known to Trump & co. at the time, this "exposure" only lathers on more media protection to the guy or lady. It turned out not to be some lowly White House tour guide taking huge personal risk, whose life is now going to be upended, etc. How do you arrive at knee-jerk whiteliberal outrage at the NYT from what's known so far?

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1177622805246091264

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @MEH 0910

    , @jamsel
    @Anonymous

    Yeah. What we need is even more well funded propaganda arms of the deep state. The Soviets were never so clever.

  8. Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Daniel Williams

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?


    Yes, that was the lefty line for decades ; The FBI cannot be trusted, Cointelpro etc. etc. It's as Erdogan says "Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off". The Left is Erdoganite at heart. All their sogenannte principles are simply means to achieve power. Once achieved those "principles" can be safely dispensed with.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Daniel Williams

    G-Men have all sucked for a long time. Hasn't been a good one since James Cagney.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_y_27HVo-A

    , @Jack Henson
    @Daniel Williams

    It's all Who Whom.

    DHS/CBP was "running concentration campa at the border", and you had facilities attacked, agents' home addresses published, and the response was "Whattaya want from me?" from the media and government.

    Meanwhile the FBI/CIA is busy trying to overthrow a President and acting like a fourth branch of government/praetorian guard. And Comgress is silent.

    , @Alden
    @Daniel Williams

    Leftists hated the government because they weren’t the government. Now they are the government they have nothing but praise for government workers.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Daniel Williams


    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?
     
    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest's Second Law of Politics: "Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing."

    Case in point: Do you think the Dulles brother would have spent one second worrying about how global warming affects national security.* https://insideclimatenews.org/news/13022018/climate-change-conflict-disasters-worldwide-threat-assessment-intelligence-agencies-refugees

    * Aside from man-made thermonuclear warming, that is.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Daniel Williams

    The Cult Marxists are in power. Hence why the secret police agencies have gone from the bad guys to the good guys in their minds; because now the secret police agencies work for the commies. Hence why Comey let Hillary walk and exonerated her in a press conference, and why they illegally spied on Trump at Obama's behest using false information.

    The KGB was lauded by the Soviets because it kept them in power. The same with the FBI/CIA/NSA and the commies today.

    , @ben tillman
    @Daniel Williams


    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?
     
    The CIA's foreunner (OSS) was founded as an antifa organization. It's always been on the Left.
  9. Is that what Robert Putnam would call anti-social capital?

  10. In fairness, from the New York Time’s perspective the CIA is “nonpolitical,” since the two of them are always in bed together regardless of which party controls the White House.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yes, this is one of the defining characteristics of the current ruling class: as much as possible, they pretend they don't exist. It's part of the "end of history" consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best. Only a tinfoil hat wearing Flat Earther or populist Nazi would say the CIA or NYT are a part of an elite political faction that's fighting Trump to maintain its turf.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross

    , @Forbes
    @Hypnotoad666

    In fairness, from the CIA’s perspective the New York Times is “nonpolitical,” since the two of them are always in bed together regardless of which party controls the White House.

    Does that work any better...

  11. Sainted Whistleblower

    Gayest military exercise since Joint Forcible Entry, RIMPAC, and Tandem Thrust.

  12. The radio propaganda networks have been trying their damnedest to make this sound like a news story, but they have relied on outrageous constructions warned about by Orwell: [asking a Brookings Institition talking head]: “would you say that Trump is feeling worried, and is he right to be feeling worried?” Nothing said about Joe Biden having $600,000/yr more in real ties to Eastern European governments than Trump did during the whole period when Trump was supposed to have been in Putin’s pocket. Every sentence mentioning Trump is cheaply forced into negativity: Trump is caught, Trump is cornered, Trump is blundering.
    At least our tanks will be in Moscow for Christmas.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @J.Ross

    "Would you say that the walls are closing in on Trump, this time for real?"

  13. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    Interesting. I don’t have a way of knowing how well funded the propaganda networks are, but it does seem like they’re asking for money more often than in the past, and the local station is saying that their fall pledge drive failed to hit the mark.
    Supposedly all the big media brands recovered from the subscription failure and fraud which was exposed in 2016, borne aloft solely by Trump derangement syndrome — but that information comes from people who had already been caught lying about their subscription numbers.

  14. Flashback. Remember when this kooky lady was going to bring down Trump?

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Clifford Brown

    It’s been Riley Coyote vs. The Road Runner for the last three years.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/97/68/f29768a83d196e199673b89c22ec4fb5.gif

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @sayless
    @Clifford Brown

    Why did the producer give the green light to showcase/exploit this mentally ill woman. Didn’t anybody talk to her for one minute before putting her on the air?

    You can see it from orbit, how disturbed she is. And now she’s on YouTube. Great.

    Wonderful work, CNN. You all really covered yourself with glory there.

  15. I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    – Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    – Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.
     
    Maybe your first two. But everyone and their pet dog is glad to see the back of Hillary ... ok that's the wrong phrase but you get my point.


    It's going to be Warren. Trump should be able to win with incumbancy, but his inconstancy and lack of understanding and will on immigration may well sink him, if the economy flatens any more.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    , @Hail
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    prediction:
    – Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.
     
    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    , @Reactionary Utopian
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.
     
    Popcorn’s on me! Thanks ... if this happens, my will to live makes a conditional comeback. Nothing’s better to watch than a good ol’ train wreck.
    , @RAZ
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    On board with Biden being out, not sure if right after NH.

    Not sure why Pelosi agreeing to hearings works against her with her Progressive wing. Expect her to make it past the election, so Trump would have to be re-elected for her to be out before Trump is out.

    HRC would love that, but I'm thinking Democrats have moved on and this is not happening. Great anger at her for losing a winnable election against whom they see as a despicable opponent. My liberal children would not want her back in.

    , @Prester John
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Biden is bye-byeski. Not sure about Pelosi yet, though she has backed obviously backed herself into a corner with this impeachment dreck. We'll see. As to the Rodham woman, she was recently reported to be on another one of her patented "listening tours."

  16. These are the consequences of living in a world where a critical mass of the population has a <95 IQ. I’m not interested enough to research the details of this alleged scandal. I vaguely recall hannity blathering about this Biden Ukraine conspiracy theory months ago. It was hilarious and unremarkable. My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?

    • Replies: @Russ
    @Kyle

    "My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?"

    As Democrat doyenne Maxine Waters will explain to you, Peach Foe Tee Fie has been the plan since Trump took office, and any details behind the means to this end are meaningless.

    , @Corvinus
    @Kyle

    "My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?"

    Simple.

    Trump is told by DHS the Ukraine conspiracy theory he's pushing is false; Ukraine asks for military aid; Trump says he needs a favor because the US-Ukraine relationship isn't reciprocal; Trump's ask aims to get what he knows would be false information. He then proceeds to have his toadies ask for additional information from leaders from Italy and Australia. Furthermore, Trump has “deliberately chosen to put the life and security of this whistleblower at risk” by trying to find out the whistleblower’s identity, which "under the law, whistleblowers are protected … and the President has violated that law.”

    You do realize that the two Ukrainians named in the whistleblower report that touched off an impeachment inquiry stated that Guiliani--Trump's private attorney--pushed for an investigation into Trump's political rivals' dealings in the country, right?

    You do realize that two corrupt Ukrainian prosecutors repeatedly dropped cases connected to Paul Manafort’s old pro-Kremlin boss, Viktor Yanukovych, at the behest of Trump, right?

    You do realize the former Ukrainian prosecutor at the heart of the Trump whistleblower scandal states he saw no evidence of criminality by Hunter Biden, right?

    You do realize that Attorney General Barr held private meetings overseas with foreign intel officials seeking their help in a DOJ inquiry...to discredit U.S. intelligence agencies' examination of Russian interference in the 2016 election, right?

    The Obama rule applies here. Had Obama engaged in the EXACT behavior in this SPECIFIC event, Republicans would be calling for impeachment.

    But I am certain that Mr. Sailer will take NOTICE of these facts at some point in time.

  17. Peeling back the putrid can of worms that is the Ukraine is going to be way more fun than talking about Russian Facebook ads.

    There is going to be sooo much corruption that will be sooo embarrassing to pretty much everybody except Trump. I can hardly wait.

    For example, just tonight I heard two chattering heads on NPR running through talking points to shore up the reputation of the former U.S. Ambassador, Marie Yavonovich. She was recalled because the Ukrainians complained that she served them with a list of untouchable people that they weren’t allowed to prosecute.

    But don’t worry, the NPR ninnies had it on good authority from Yovanovich’s DC friends that she was always very “professional.”

    You see, Trump is actually the bad guy here as well because he violated the “norm” of never speaking ill of our CIA operatives, I mean, diplomats.

    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
    @Hypnotoad666

    "There is going to be sooo much corruption that will be sooo embarrassing to pretty much everybody except Trump..."

    You mean like Mitt Romney's 2012 NatSec advisor, Joseph Cofer Black, sitting on the Burisma Board with Cocaine Hunter? No wonder Mitt was so agitated about Russia back then.

    , @Bugg
    @Hypnotoad666

    No discussion at all that a country with $22 trillion in debt is still handing out foreign aid like goodies in stockings on Christmas morning. The worry to the deep state is Trump may interrupt business as usual in a 2nd term.

  18. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    17 if you can believe it . Yes 17. Fwiw each of the armed forces has its own I.A. none of which are part of DIA.

    • Replies: @bored identity
    @kaganovitch

    Actually, it's 18...

    DOA is hatching in Social DOJ incubator.

  19. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Yes, that was the lefty line for decades ; The FBI cannot be trusted, Cointelpro etc. etc. It’s as Erdogan says “Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off”. The Left is Erdoganite at heart. All their sogenannte principles are simply means to achieve power. Once achieved those “principles” can be safely dispensed with.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @kaganovitch

    "They're our (the Left's) [war] planes now." During the administrations of Billy Jeff, and it was supposed to be permanent after 1/20/2013. Our planes, our tanks, our ships, our FBI, and our CIA.

  20. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Lot


    Community
     
    Do you ever notice that the word "community," has been -- re-appropriated?

    The political class loves the word "community" for groups it approves of, and neglects to use it otherwise. Hence that famous phrase, so often heard from elite media and on down the line, "the Black community." Never does one hear of a "White community."

    "Intelligence community": Likewise a sainted phrase, used and approved from on-high. When talking about US intelligence agencies, it seems almost obligatory to use this charming and inoffensive phrasing. "Community"!

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hail, @Anonymous

    , @Twinkie
    @Lot

    And that’s just the feds.

    Even the NYPD has a foreign intelligence-gathering program and stations officers overseas.

    Replies: @bomag, @Jack Henson

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Lot

    Probably many of these guys spy on each other without knowing it. It's like black "procreation strategy": frequently you know who your mother is, but never who is the father.

    , @slumber_j
    @Lot


    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.
     
    That we know of...

    Replies: @Art Deco

  21. Nothing said about Joe Biden having $600,000/yr more in real ties to Eastern European governments than Trump did during the whole period when Trump was supposed to have been in Putin’s pocket.

    Also nothing has been said about Hunter’s enthusiasm for cocaine and how it could be used to pressure his dad.What happens in the Burisma board room doesn’t necessarily stay there.

    • Agree: sayless
  22. We decided to publish limited information about the whistle-blower — including the fact that he works for a nonpolitical agency

    Good to know.

  23. duh. well, now that is get away from all the other lies and monumental bs…..really Jersey bs!, hahahhaaaa

  24. The Cia is now basically the DNC. So every Republican will distrust it and refund it.

    I expect Trump to say global warming is such a top priority he’s detailing the entire via to Alaska to check it out and get back to him.

    Meanwhile pumping up Military intelligence. He really needs a money spigot military buildup like Reagan. No one wants to end the good times rolling.

    Cia. Now eternally at war with Republicans. And deplorable s.

    Oh yes Hillary is running.

    • Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster
    @Whiskey

    "Oh yes Hillary is running."

    Well, this is what I've been thinking all along: she's waiting (maybe conniving at) for the crash-and-burn of the current bumbling crew and plans to jump in at some point as "The Savior" of the party.
    Her argument: "Hey, I actually won the 2016 election, after all, I got 3 million more votes than Doofus; this time around I'll be more careful and not let the Russians interfere, and I'll stuff the boxes in MI, PA, and WI so there will be no question. What's not to like?"

    Replies: @Neoconned

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Whiskey

    My impression is the CIA is Congregation Beth Shalom and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

  25. @Lot
    @Jack Henson

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    Replies: @Hail, @Twinkie, @Bardon Kaldian, @slumber_j

    Community

    Do you ever notice that the word “community,” has been — re-appropriated?

    The political class loves the word “community” for groups it approves of, and neglects to use it otherwise. Hence that famous phrase, so often heard from elite media and on down the line, “the Black community.” Never does one hear of a “White community.”

    “Intelligence community”: Likewise a sainted phrase, used and approved from on-high. When talking about US intelligence agencies, it seems almost obligatory to use this charming and inoffensive phrasing. “Community”!

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Hail

    Yeah, it's like every ensemble TV show episode has to mention the current cast is 'family'.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Hail
    @Hail

    Ngram has the phrase "intelligence community" emerging in the 1960s, and reaching its later, sustained rate of use by the late 1970s (it first shows up with initial capital letters also in the late 1970s).

    While many say Ngram is not necessarily reliable after 2000, extending the search-range to 2006 shows a a big increase in use of the phrase "intelligence community" starting in the early 2000s. A closer look shows the upswing dates precisely to 2002 (set smoothing to zero to see it), which is plausible. If correct, 2002 is the biggest sustained one-year jump in uses of "intelligence community" in our language ever.

    Rate of use of phrase "intelligence community" in AmEng corpus (2001=100)
    - <2: 1945 to 1962 (generally 0/year)
    - <20: mid-1960s
    - 100: mid-1970s-to-2001 running average
    - 100: 2001 (i.e., still at running-avg.)
    - 150: 2002
    - 215: 2005 [peak year in Ngram corpus, ending in 2006]
    - ?: 2010s [can estimate using other sources, like NYT uses by year, for those w/access]

    ________________

    The earliest use I find of the phrase "intelligence community," in a brief look through the Google Books archive, is from remarks before Congress given in August 1963 by then-Rep. John Lindsay, later Mayor of New York City (elected to four-year terms in Nov. 1965 and Nov. 1969).

    This may not be the first-ever use, but if you glance through the transcript, Linsday is at pains to explain the term and define it. The Congressional transcriptionist used quotation marks around the phrase several times, suggesting it was brand-new to him/her and not in current use.

    Search for the following to find this in the Congressional record:


    By the phrase “intelligence community” I mean the numerous agencies within the executive branch concerned with intelligence collection and evaluation: the CIA, the new Defense Intelligence Agency, the State Department, Rand, and so on. [John Lindsay speaking.]
     
    Interesting that Lindsay, speaking in 1963, included RAND as part of his definition of the "intelligence community." And also the State Department itself.
    , @Anonymous
    @Hail

    "community" - n. Collective designation for groups of people who always cooperate. They never criticize, spy on, or try to steal each other's work-product, instead behaving as a cohesive large family with shared interests. e.g.:
    the LGBTIAQ+ community;
    the Scientific community, a/k/a global Scientific community;
    the Silicon Valley/tech community;
    the Hollywood pedo community;
    ...and so on.

  26. @Clifford Brown
    Flashback. Remember when this kooky lady was going to bring down Trump?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvNGX00LJk

    Replies: @Kronos, @sayless

    It’s been Riley Coyote vs. The Road Runner for the last three years.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Kronos

    It's Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner, but you are correct otherwise.

    Replies: @Kronos

  27. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Maybe your first two. But everyone and their pet dog is glad to see the back of Hillary … ok that’s the wrong phrase but you get my point.

    It’s going to be Warren. Trump should be able to win with incumbancy, but his inconstancy and lack of understanding and will on immigration may well sink him, if the economy flatens any more.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @AnotherDad


    Trump should be able to win with incumbency...
     
    The Dems notice this, and suspect their candidates are relatively weak, so they are pulling out the stops now; the "October surprise" is coming early this year; anything after January 2020 will be dismissed as politics.

    Timing is still not good: only 20 days of scheduled congress for this year, and impeachment will stretch into the election year. Dems are honing their negative message on Trump, but when all you do is shout his name, that's not so great for your side.
  28. • Replies: @Jack Henson
    @Ano

    I always thought it was interesting how Bush I's past of being chief spymaster for the country never got 1% of the mention of say, Putin 's, in the media.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Uncle Remus

  29. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Right, like that noted patriotic, decent, honorable Max Boot fellow?

    , @El Dato
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax.
     
    Gee, grandpa Akuleyev, are you the last one of the Russiagate believers? Tell us about your times!
    , @Mr. Anon
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Max Boot, for example, is not a moderate conservative, and has no notion of patriotism (not toward my country anyway), honor, or decency. Same goes for Adam Schiff, Eric Swallwell, Brad Sherman, AOC, Jihada Tlaib (or whatever her name is), or brother-marrier Ilhan Omar.

    , @dr kill
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I think you must share Joe Biden's paste.

    , @J.Ross
    @Peter Akuleyev

    >patriotism
    >honor
    >decency
    >torturing children within earshot of their parents
    >Hitlerite war crimes, ie, aggression
    >the massive lies effected to justify aggression
    >allowing businesses to write their own regulations
    >Mitch giving boats to China
    >the complete abandonment of endangered people and historical allies
    >the embrace of enemies who want us to die violently
    >the destruction of the Constitution to look good for the next election
    >patriotism
    >honor
    >decency

    , @Desiderius
    @Peter Akuleyev

    No, moderate conservatives resent Trump for shaming their silence and inaction.

    , @Neoconned
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I'd wager on foreign policy issues I fall in with the Matt Taibibi crowd. And I do agree, the Russiagate hoax is the biggest nothing in decades....

  30. @J.Ross
    The radio propaganda networks have been trying their damnedest to make this sound like a news story, but they have relied on outrageous constructions warned about by Orwell: [asking a Brookings Institition talking head]: "would you say that Trump is feeling worried, and is he right to be feeling worried?" Nothing said about Joe Biden having $600,000/yr more in real ties to Eastern European governments than Trump did during the whole period when Trump was supposed to have been in Putin's pocket. Every sentence mentioning Trump is cheaply forced into negativity: Trump is caught, Trump is cornered, Trump is blundering.
    At least our tanks will be in Moscow for Christmas.

    Replies: @Pericles

    “Would you say that the walls are closing in on Trump, this time for real?”

  31. @Hail
    @Lot


    Community
     
    Do you ever notice that the word "community," has been -- re-appropriated?

    The political class loves the word "community" for groups it approves of, and neglects to use it otherwise. Hence that famous phrase, so often heard from elite media and on down the line, "the Black community." Never does one hear of a "White community."

    "Intelligence community": Likewise a sainted phrase, used and approved from on-high. When talking about US intelligence agencies, it seems almost obligatory to use this charming and inoffensive phrasing. "Community"!

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hail, @Anonymous

    Yeah, it’s like every ensemble TV show episode has to mention the current cast is ‘family’.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Pericles

    The less that real communities and families exist, the more we have to talk about fake ones.

  32. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    • LOL: TWS
    • Replies: @peterike
    @Peter Akuleyev


    the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower

     

    Lol! You really do live in a delusional echo chamber. Thanks for the regurgitated DNC talking points, hack-boy.
    , @Alden
    @Peter Akuleyev

    The president of the United States called and spoke with the president of Ukraine about a Ukrainian corruption investigation involving the son of a US Vice President.

    Nothing wrong with that. Foreign affairs, such as speaking with other heads of state is the US Presidents job.

    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Peter Akuleyev

    OK, I am dense, I am stoopid, I am partisan. What did President Trump say (channeling Harvey Fierstein) that is so . . . wrooonnng?

    Are we even looking at the same transcript? The rumors were that Mr. Trump nagged Mr. Zelensky about l'Affaire Hunter Biden, and we know Mr. Trump likes to repeat himself in his sales pitches, but eight times?

    Fake news. In what I saw of the transcript, Trump and Zelensky go about their bromance-building congratulatory patter when Mr. Trump asks a "favor" of Mr. Zelensky, to look into Crowd Strike, which had something to do with the Russian Collusion accusations. Zelensky brushes off the offered help saying his new prosecutor will get to the bottom of it. It is Zelensky who then offers that his prosecutor will also pursue the Hunter Biden matter. Trump counters that Zelensky can telephone Rudy as well as Attorney General Barr?

    What was even remotely improper about this exchange? Did they exchange tips how as married men they could "pick up hot Ukranian babes?"

    , @JudgeSmails
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.
     
    Admitted to what?

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @J.Ross
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Distract them from what? Here and in the whole collusion Hillary server issue, Democrats defend themselves by treating criticism as a crime.
    Hillary violated classified material handling laws. Saying that Hillary violated the law isn't the crime. What Hillary did is the crime.
    Biden used aid to force a foreign government to give his family money. Trump pointing that put isn't a crime. What Biden did was a crime.

  33. @Hail
    @Lot


    Community
     
    Do you ever notice that the word "community," has been -- re-appropriated?

    The political class loves the word "community" for groups it approves of, and neglects to use it otherwise. Hence that famous phrase, so often heard from elite media and on down the line, "the Black community." Never does one hear of a "White community."

    "Intelligence community": Likewise a sainted phrase, used and approved from on-high. When talking about US intelligence agencies, it seems almost obligatory to use this charming and inoffensive phrasing. "Community"!

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hail, @Anonymous

    Ngram has the phrase “intelligence community” emerging in the 1960s, and reaching its later, sustained rate of use by the late 1970s (it first shows up with initial capital letters also in the late 1970s).

    While many say Ngram is not necessarily reliable after 2000, extending the search-range to 2006 shows a a big increase in use of the phrase “intelligence community” starting in the early 2000s. A closer look shows the upswing dates precisely to 2002 (set smoothing to zero to see it), which is plausible. If correct, 2002 is the biggest sustained one-year jump in uses of “intelligence community” in our language ever.

    Rate of use of phrase “intelligence community” in AmEng corpus (2001=100)
    – <2: 1945 to 1962 (generally 0/year)
    – <20: mid-1960s
    – 100: mid-1970s-to-2001 running average
    – 100: 2001 (i.e., still at running-avg.)
    – 150: 2002
    – 215: 2005 [peak year in Ngram corpus, ending in 2006]
    – ?: 2010s [can estimate using other sources, like NYT uses by year, for those w/access]

    ________________

    The earliest use I find of the phrase "intelligence community," in a brief look through the Google Books archive, is from remarks before Congress given in August 1963 by then-Rep. John Lindsay, later Mayor of New York City (elected to four-year terms in Nov. 1965 and Nov. 1969).

    This may not be the first-ever use, but if you glance through the transcript, Linsday is at pains to explain the term and define it. The Congressional transcriptionist used quotation marks around the phrase several times, suggesting it was brand-new to him/her and not in current use.

    Search for the following to find this in the Congressional record:

    [MORE]

    By the phrase “intelligence community” I mean the numerous agencies within the executive branch concerned with intelligence collection and evaluation: the CIA, the new Defense Intelligence Agency, the State Department, Rand, and so on. [John Lindsay speaking.]

    Interesting that Lindsay, speaking in 1963, included RAND as part of his definition of the “intelligence community.” And also the State Department itself.

  34. @Lot
    @Jack Henson

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    Replies: @Hail, @Twinkie, @Bardon Kaldian, @slumber_j

    And that’s just the feds.

    Even the NYPD has a foreign intelligence-gathering program and stations officers overseas.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Twinkie

    And I imagine each state has resources devoted to such. My small population state next to the Canadian border has stories about task forces dealing with drug flows from Mexico, which would require ties with the "community".

    , @Jack Henson
    @Twinkie

    As has been pointed out around here, the NYPD is another agency that never seems to get a fraction of attention from the DOJ in the way that say, Ferguson PD did.

    The stuff that place got away with and to an extent still does boggles the mind until you realise it's the center of the universe.

  35. @Prof. Woland
    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

    Replies: @El Dato, @George, @Charles Pewitt

    Stalin-level of ultra-cynical, but not impossible.

    he works for a nonpolitical agency

    Comrades, please!

  36. Giuliani doesn’t have the mental abilities he once had.

    That said I am astonished the way the media has tried to turn yet another Obama admin corruption scandal in to a Trump scandal. Thank God for RT, had a nice piece on all the corrupt deals Biden family members did with foreign countries when Joe was VP. Joe isn’t the brightest and is easily manipulated by his handlers, wandering hands too.

    Interesting Revilo P. Oliver said military intelligence referred to the OSS as the Office of Soviet Stooges.

  37. @Lot
    @Jack Henson

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    Replies: @Hail, @Twinkie, @Bardon Kaldian, @slumber_j

    Probably many of these guys spy on each other without knowing it. It’s like black “procreation strategy”: frequently you know who your mother is, but never who is the father.

  38. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Right, like that noted patriotic, decent, honorable Max Boot fellow?

  39. Sainted Whistleblower Is Actually CIA

    Perhaps a tranny, like Bradley Chelsea Manning, or a fetishist like Robert Hanssen?

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Perhaps a tranny, like Bradley Chelsea Manning, or a fetishist like Robert Hanssen?"

    I believe "secret witness" would be the appropriate moniker.

  40. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    prediction:
    – Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Hail


    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?
     
    I don't know that he's made a formal prediction...but he seems to think Warren will be the nominee.

    And if so, then he is correct.

    Replies: @Hail

  41. Terminate, with extreme prejudice.

  42. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    Before you cancel your New York Times subscription: Do you think our country would be better off without the New York Times, or with an under-funded New York Times?

    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That’s an easy one.

    • Agree: Realist, Aft, Corn, pyrrhus
    • Replies: @Anon
    @donvonburg


    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That’s an easy one.
     
    The entire organization should have been scrapped after it was tainted by Operation Mockingbird. Torn down to its studs so that anything erected in its place could have no heritage leading back to the original.

    The same goes for the intelligence agencies involved. The demonic and well-documented horrors of MKUltra, waged against the citizens of North America and including child rape, also serving to accuse the alphabet agencies. Crimes to which they still have not been held accountable.

    In a legitimate democracy, getting rid of those iterations of those organizations wouldn't have even been a decision. In our pseudo-democracy, these operations apparently were legitimate building blocks to the society that we now have.

    Another obvious symptom of the dysfunctional nature of this pseudo-democracy is that The Washington Post should be held to be a journalistic joke by all other journalists after its owner famously got in bed with the CIA. But it isn't.

    , @BenKenobi
    @donvonburg

    Not too mention all the NYT staff and any unironic subscribers!

  43. The vilest thing about the Biden at theCouncil for Foreign Relations video is that after he’s done with his tale of brutally ass-raping Ukraine…..the whole audience starts laughing, sniggering and giggling.

    Just despicable.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Russ
    @Hugh


    The vilest thing about the Biden at theCouncil for Foreign Relations video is that after he’s done with his tale of brutally ass-raping Ukraine…..the whole audience starts laughing, sniggering and giggling.
     
    Mere mention of the CFR used to suffice to launch the left into a snit; now, as you note, it's all sniggers and giggles.
  44. @Hypnotoad666
    In fairness, from the New York Time's perspective the CIA is "nonpolitical," since the two of them are always in bed together regardless of which party controls the White House.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Forbes

    Yes, this is one of the defining characteristics of the current ruling class: as much as possible, they pretend they don’t exist. It’s part of the “end of history” consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best. Only a tinfoil hat wearing Flat Earther or populist Nazi would say the CIA or NYT are a part of an elite political faction that’s fighting Trump to maintain its turf.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Cagey Beast


    It’s part of the “end of history” consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best.
     
    You are right. And that view betrays an incredible present-bias in the thinking of a lot of people. Governments have throughout history mostly been run by cynical, ambitious, often amoral schemers. The notion that the circumstances of our own particular time and place are likely to be any different is pretty far-fetched when you think about it.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    , @J.Ross
    @Cagey Beast

    Gold box; and hence the possible crisis when just ordinary guy Joe Blow (who happens to be related to a former Vice-President of the United States) gets $600,000/yr from an embattled foreign government.

  45. Huh … I’d assumed the whistleblower was a Karen Silkwood-type, a simple low-level American worker who’d stumbled upon Incriminating Information. Now he turns out instead to be CIA.

    Hah!!! Of course he was a Deep State guy.

    Remember, it was Mark Felt, a jilted FBI guy who turned out to be “Deep Throat,” the Watergate “whistleblower.”

    And don’t forget how Ambassador Wilson and his Deep State wife Plame dropped a turd into W’s punch bowl.

    And I’m not even going to get into all the Kennedy conspiracy stuff here.

    Not to mention the coup against Trump by the FBI and the rigged Hillary e-mail investigation.

    The Deep State has been controlling this country for the past fifty years, at least…

  46. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    G-Men have all sucked for a long time. Hasn’t been a good one since James Cagney.

  47. Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”

    The way the word “political” as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called “electioneering” which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are “political”–meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word “political” nearly always means “electioneering” or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word “partisan” that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    @Jonathan Mason

    It is good to know that domestic agitation, institution subversion, propaganda, blackmail, bribery, data fakery, data theft and assassination are "non-political".

    That makes me feel _so_ _much_ _better_ about the CIA. ;-)

    , @El Dato
    @Jonathan Mason

    I don't know whether there is "confusion".

    "Nonpolitical" in this context means that said TLA is meant to support the governmental and legislative decision process with objective data, they are not supposed to meddle around, have their own home-grown political attitude, not supposed to favour one party over the other, not supposed to sex-up dossiers or invent them from whole cloth, not supposed to mislead law enforcement, not supposed to perform state-sponsored terrorism and be a power center with a license to kill which may even be for sale for the benefit of selected players etc.

    Evidence tells us that the above is not congruent with reality as we currently perceive it.

    , @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    You are missing the point. The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party. So that when the other party is in the White House, the CIA and the rest of the Permanent Government is a 5th Column undermining the elected government. And when their party is in office, you have a sort of echo chamber where the President is not getting objective advice either.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal (and the answer was no). The President is the head of the Executive Branch and is entitled to loyal and trusted advisers. If my clients thought that I was going to rat them out, they wouldn't be able to speak freely to me and they couldn't get proper advice from me. Everyone inside the White House should have the same obligation of confidentiality. Otherwise it becomes impossible to govern.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason

    Having personal opinions on the one hand and pursuing your own policy agenda or that of outsiders opposed to your nominal boss on the other are two very different things. What's happening is electioneering, and it's become permanent.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @dr kill
    @Jonathan Mason

    This is ironic, no? Do you not know where Papa Bush tended bar for 350 whole days in 1976? Have a read of this loving tongue bath.

    The men and women of the Central Intelligence Agency join the nation in mourning the loss of one of the most influential and beloved directors in the Agency’s history.

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2018-featured-story-archive/george-h-w-bush2014the-11th-director-of-central-intelligence.html

    Take a guess at the name of the CIA HQ building, and I'll try a guess at your friend's name. Brent Scowcroft?

    , @Prester John
    @Jonathan Mason

    Can't speak about the CIA but I have a cousin who's a retired Secret Service employee and who was assigned to the White House when the Clintons slithered in. He once told me that the general consensus among SecSvce personnel was that both of 'em were lowlife scum. That he and his colleagues continued to do their job is testimony to their peerless professionalism.

  48. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    But man, more than ever, we need to support serious, hard-hitting journalism

    Give to iSteve.

  49. @Whiskey
    The Cia is now basically the DNC. So every Republican will distrust it and refund it.

    I expect Trump to say global warming is such a top priority he's detailing the entire via to Alaska to check it out and get back to him.

    Meanwhile pumping up Military intelligence. He really needs a money spigot military buildup like Reagan. No one wants to end the good times rolling.

    Cia. Now eternally at war with Republicans. And deplorable s.

    Oh yes Hillary is running.

    Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster, @The Anti-Gnostic

    “Oh yes Hillary is running.”

    Well, this is what I’ve been thinking all along: she’s waiting (maybe conniving at) for the crash-and-burn of the current bumbling crew and plans to jump in at some point as “The Savior” of the party.
    Her argument: “Hey, I actually won the 2016 election, after all, I got 3 million more votes than Doofus; this time around I’ll be more careful and not let the Russians interfere, and I’ll stuff the boxes in MI, PA, and WI so there will be no question. What’s not to like?”

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Stephen Paul Foster

    I've mentioned on here off/on since early 2017 that Hillary will return "with a vengeance".....who else will they run? Biden?
    That means a Trump landslide.

    And Bernie and Warren CANT get ANYWHERE near the White House. "They" will not allow it. Somebody on Wall Street will pay off rogue CIA types and military contractors to go and round up a Hinckley or an Oswald. 2 or 3 of the best snipers in NATO.....probably farmed out to the Brits or the Canucks or something.....they'll pop them 60 ways from Sunday and the Oswald will take the patsy fall. Happened before could happen again.

    Theres just simply put too much money to lose with a President Sanders or Warren. Think tens of trillions lost over a decade by Wall Street due to more regulation & higher taxation and MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY Warren and Bernie will force the central bankers to use monetary policy at the executive whim of a socialist presidency and NO MATTER WHAT THAT WILL NEVER happen in the United states simply due to the "real owners" of this country standing to lose too much dough.

    Trump may be bad to some but in comparison to Warren or Sanders he's a Reagan....

    Replies: @Corvinus

  50. anon[231] • Disclaimer says:

    The heavily lawyered whistleblower document will prove to be a problem.

    The cover up charge is silly, since Trump/Guilani have been very public about what they have been doing. And released the call transcript.

    It’s obviously not a whistleblower but the CIA making anonymous charges and trying to hide its involvement using whistleblower protections.

    The key cover up charge is that unnamed officials were worried about the phone call and tried to contain damaging political information.

    1. The whistleblower states he has no direct knowledge.
    2. The indirect knowledge was rather the opinion and behavior of unnamed officials, not Trump.

    So is someone supposed to investigate the feelings of unnamed officials?

    Or just take the CIA leaker’s word for it?

  51. @AnotherDad
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.
     
    Maybe your first two. But everyone and their pet dog is glad to see the back of Hillary ... ok that's the wrong phrase but you get my point.


    It's going to be Warren. Trump should be able to win with incumbancy, but his inconstancy and lack of understanding and will on immigration may well sink him, if the economy flatens any more.

    Replies: @bomag

    Trump should be able to win with incumbency…

    The Dems notice this, and suspect their candidates are relatively weak, so they are pulling out the stops now; the “October surprise” is coming early this year; anything after January 2020 will be dismissed as politics.

    Timing is still not good: only 20 days of scheduled congress for this year, and impeachment will stretch into the election year. Dems are honing their negative message on Trump, but when all you do is shout his name, that’s not so great for your side.

  52. @kaganovitch
    @Jack Henson

    17 if you can believe it . Yes 17. Fwiw each of the armed forces has its own I.A. none of which are part of DIA.

    Replies: @bored identity

    Actually, it’s 18…

    DOA is hatching in Social DOJ incubator.

  53. @Twinkie
    @Lot

    And that’s just the feds.

    Even the NYPD has a foreign intelligence-gathering program and stations officers overseas.

    Replies: @bomag, @Jack Henson

    And I imagine each state has resources devoted to such. My small population state next to the Canadian border has stories about task forces dealing with drug flows from Mexico, which would require ties with the “community”.

  54. @Lot
    @Jack Henson

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

    Replies: @Hail, @Twinkie, @Bardon Kaldian, @slumber_j

    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.

    That we know of…

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @slumber_j

    Ha ha ha. Call me Janey. All my friends do.

    Replies: @Anon

  55. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    It is good to know that domestic agitation, institution subversion, propaganda, blackmail, bribery, data fakery, data theft and assassination are “non-political”.

    That makes me feel _so_ _much_ _better_ about the CIA. 😉

  56. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    They all ultimately answer to the Mossad. I don’t know of it’s blackmail or fear of the Sampson Option (look it up) but that’s the world we live in.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @Rufio Panman Fan

    Not all.

  57. @Prof. Woland
    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

    Replies: @El Dato, @George, @Charles Pewitt

    An alternative theory is the leaker was a lone screwball.

    The woman who knew nothing much but leaked it anyway and ended up in the can:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

    FWIW, Winner was probably ‘radiclized’ but it seems to me to be certain she was bowling alone.

  58. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    It’s all Who Whom.

    DHS/CBP was “running concentration campa at the border”, and you had facilities attacked, agents’ home addresses published, and the response was “Whattaya want from me?” from the media and government.

    Meanwhile the FBI/CIA is busy trying to overthrow a President and acting like a fourth branch of government/praetorian guard. And Comgress is silent.

  59. @Ano
    ...political hack job...

    What are the odds this CIA officer will be a future Democrat hack politician?

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/03/no-precedent-us-political-history-extraordinary-number-ex-cia-operatives-running-congress-democrats/

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/07/dems-m07.html

    Replies: @Jack Henson

    I always thought it was interesting how Bush I’s past of being chief spymaster for the country never got 1% of the mention of say, Putin ‘s, in the media.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Bush held the job for 1 year. Nixon and Ford used Bush as a utility man in a series of positions (which he held for a mean of about 18 months). He never worked in intelligence before or after. Putin was a career spook, employed in that trade for nearly 25 years.

    Replies: @Jack Henson, @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    , @Uncle Remus
    @Jack Henson

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush's CIA career began when
    he became Director has been questioned by many researchers. The whitewashing of this man and his family, both prior generations and succeeding ones, has been well-orchestrated and has gone on for decades. Now that all pretense of respect for political leaders has been abandoned, the guns need to be trained on the nefarious history of senior Bush and those that came with him.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Neoconned

  60. Be sure to read Linh Dinh’s recent article and especially his very interesting comments in the comment section.

    https://www.unz.com/ldinh/jack-london/

  61. @Twinkie
    @Lot

    And that’s just the feds.

    Even the NYPD has a foreign intelligence-gathering program and stations officers overseas.

    Replies: @bomag, @Jack Henson

    As has been pointed out around here, the NYPD is another agency that never seems to get a fraction of attention from the DOJ in the way that say, Ferguson PD did.

    The stuff that place got away with and to an extent still does boggles the mind until you realise it’s the center of the universe.

  62. “Huh … I’d assumed the whistleblower was a Karen Silkwood-type, a simple low-level American worker who’d stumbled upon Incriminating Information. ”

    Yeah, my mind first went to Madeleine Westerhout.

  63. @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower

    Lol! You really do live in a delusional echo chamber. Thanks for the regurgitated DNC talking points, hack-boy.

  64. This article on how CNN played with the transcript of Trump’s call is highly instructive of how the media lies. This is the sort of stuff dunces like Peter Akuleyev fall for every time.

    No seriously. Read this.

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/25/cnn-just-yadda-yadda-yaddad-540-words-to-frame-trump-for-favor-he-never-requested/

  65. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    We don’t hear much about Carlos Slim any more. We know having tons of illegals in the US buying his ripoff phone cards and making remittances from El Norte is very good for his bottom line. The Times never talks about those things when it discusses immigration. The 1619 nonsense is a great way to deflect any discussions of the exploitation of 3rd world Latinos by their conquistador/Falange betters, as long as the later are paying the Times’ bills. The Sulzburger family is perfectly happy to take money from an oligarch and then ignore his manifestly exploitive business practices. If they are in fact looking for money they would be willing to look the other way about any such benefactor again.

  66. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    Each of the armed services has an intelligence branch (4); there are several civilian agencies under the Secretary of Defense (4); there’s a small (300 headcount) analytical service in the State Department; (1); there’s a Bush-Ridge era something-or-other in the Treasury department (1), another such office in the Energy department (1), and another such office in Homeland Security (1); a couple of the federal police services are also classified as ‘intelligence agencies’ (2); and then there’s the CIA (1). I think I missed a few. It looks like something you might profitably re-arrange. Then you remember that the last time Congress and the President moved agencies around, you got the Homeland Security department, which is top-heavy with deputy secretaries, undersecretaries, deputy undersecretaries, and what not and which has a rather indistinct mission, as well as components with bad seminal cultures (e.g. TSA).

  67. I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    There’s a reason Wm. J. Casey set up a separate brain trust of outsiders who hadn’t been promoted within the ranks. One of the members of it gave a talk at Hillsdale College some years back and offered that one of the problems with the agency is that it’s employees think the information flow to them relieves them of the obligation of doing any outside reading. Most, he said, read nothing more demanding than a few metropolitan newspapers. The man disparaging the intelligence of Messrs. Clinton, Bush, and Obama prospered in a bureaucracy which promoted Aldrich Ames again and again.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment? I thought he was retained as a chess piece to insulate other, more competent double agents during the mid-80s freakout where undercover Americans were getting rolled up on the other side. Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA's part.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob

  68. @slumber_j
    @Lot


    The U.S. Intelligence Community has 17 agencies.
     
    That we know of...

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Ha ha ha. Call me Janey. All my friends do.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Art Deco

    Sorry, please explain?

  69. I thought that the New York Times was a subsidiary of the CIA?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Mike Zwick

    Or is it the other way around?

  70. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    Yes, the country would be better off without most of the media. I doubt there are many reporters anymore, by which I mean people like the Kilgallans (father and daughter) who saw it as their vocation to tell stories of any and all kinds. Fun fact: three of James Kilgallan’s four great-grandchildren work in media and communications, but none of them are reporters.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco

    We need a Warren Commission to look into Dorothy Kilgallen's untimely death.

    She was on What's My Line?, but someone else might have been eligible for I've Got a Secret.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

  71. @Hypnotoad666
    Peeling back the putrid can of worms that is the Ukraine is going to be way more fun than talking about Russian Facebook ads.

    There is going to be sooo much corruption that will be sooo embarrassing to pretty much everybody except Trump. I can hardly wait.

    For example, just tonight I heard two chattering heads on NPR running through talking points to shore up the reputation of the former U.S. Ambassador, Marie Yavonovich. She was recalled because the Ukrainians complained that she served them with a list of untouchable people that they weren't allowed to prosecute.

    But don't worry, the NPR ninnies had it on good authority from Yovanovich's DC friends that she was always very "professional."

    You see, Trump is actually the bad guy here as well because he violated the "norm" of never speaking ill of our CIA operatives, I mean, diplomats.

    Replies: @Thirdtwin, @Bugg

    “There is going to be sooo much corruption that will be sooo embarrassing to pretty much everybody except Trump…”

    You mean like Mitt Romney’s 2012 NatSec advisor, Joseph Cofer Black, sitting on the Burisma Board with Cocaine Hunter? No wonder Mitt was so agitated about Russia back then.

  72. @Hypnotoad666
    Peeling back the putrid can of worms that is the Ukraine is going to be way more fun than talking about Russian Facebook ads.

    There is going to be sooo much corruption that will be sooo embarrassing to pretty much everybody except Trump. I can hardly wait.

    For example, just tonight I heard two chattering heads on NPR running through talking points to shore up the reputation of the former U.S. Ambassador, Marie Yavonovich. She was recalled because the Ukrainians complained that she served them with a list of untouchable people that they weren't allowed to prosecute.

    But don't worry, the NPR ninnies had it on good authority from Yovanovich's DC friends that she was always very "professional."

    You see, Trump is actually the bad guy here as well because he violated the "norm" of never speaking ill of our CIA operatives, I mean, diplomats.

    Replies: @Thirdtwin, @Bugg

    No discussion at all that a country with $22 trillion in debt is still handing out foreign aid like goodies in stockings on Christmas morning. The worry to the deep state is Trump may interrupt business as usual in a 2nd term.

  73. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    I don’t know whether there is “confusion”.

    “Nonpolitical” in this context means that said TLA is meant to support the governmental and legislative decision process with objective data, they are not supposed to meddle around, have their own home-grown political attitude, not supposed to favour one party over the other, not supposed to sex-up dossiers or invent them from whole cloth, not supposed to mislead law enforcement, not supposed to perform state-sponsored terrorism and be a power center with a license to kill which may even be for sale for the benefit of selected players etc.

    Evidence tells us that the above is not congruent with reality as we currently perceive it.

  74. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax.

    Gee, grandpa Akuleyev, are you the last one of the Russiagate believers? Tell us about your times!

  75. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have?

    If you include counter-intelligence, lots of ’em – including ones you never heard of.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Mr. Anon

    NCIS (in real life as well as the show) is counterintel for the Navy and Marine Corps, along with its criminal investigation duties (for felonies.)

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Mr. Anon

    Yeah, its how we at least have the Venona files. The Army was running intel that the corrupted FBI and CIA didn't know about, and thus couldn't shut down.

    Sadly, I think the alphabet agencies learned their errors and have the military intel on lockdown these days. That plus diversity in the ranks killed any chance of that being an asset today.

  76. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    Max Boot, for example, is not a moderate conservative, and has no notion of patriotism (not toward my country anyway), honor, or decency. Same goes for Adam Schiff, Eric Swallwell, Brad Sherman, AOC, Jihada Tlaib (or whatever her name is), or brother-marrier Ilhan Omar.

  77. I can remember when liberals – self-professed liberals – didn’t trust the CIA, the FBI, and all the various clandestine organs of the State. They even used to make movies like Three Days of the Condor, Missing, Executive Action, and JFK. Now, a good liberal Democrat’s standard of American patriotism is unquestioning acceptance of whatever propaganda is put out by agents of the National Security State.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Mr. Anon

    Well, the JFK conspiracies (about 90% of them, anyway) are just lefties covering for themselves.

    In reality, its a pretty strong case that an ardent communist ex-marine Oswald murdered the extremely anti-communist JFK because of JFK's strident anti-communist actions at the time----the Cuban missile crisis, the Berlin Airlift, the JFK Berlin speech, etc.

    But the Left freaked out over that, denied reality, and have concocted some rube goldberg-esque theories to cover that up---and blame the U.S. to boot. You'd be hardpressed to find any corporate media account mentioning Oswald's fierce communism or JFK's fierce anti-communism as the causes.

    I mean, FFS, Oswald literally defected to the USSR for a few years, and then tried to defect to Cuba. and then tried to kill an anti-communist U.S. general before turning to JFK. But practically no story about the JFK murders in the corporate media mentions those extremely relevant facts.

    Ironically, the only other logical possibilities are...brainwashing of Oswald by some government agency or foreign government. But we also have nothing to support that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

  78. @Cagey Beast
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yes, this is one of the defining characteristics of the current ruling class: as much as possible, they pretend they don't exist. It's part of the "end of history" consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best. Only a tinfoil hat wearing Flat Earther or populist Nazi would say the CIA or NYT are a part of an elite political faction that's fighting Trump to maintain its turf.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross

    It’s part of the “end of history” consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best.

    You are right. And that view betrays an incredible present-bias in the thinking of a lot of people. Governments have throughout history mostly been run by cynical, ambitious, often amoral schemers. The notion that the circumstances of our own particular time and place are likely to be any different is pretty far-fetched when you think about it.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Anon

    The notion that the circumstances of our own particular time and place are likely to be any different is pretty far-fetched when you think about it.

    To be fair to the postwar generations, I can see how they got the impression we'd left harsh class distinctions and shameless political bosses behind forever. I'm unironically jealous of their optimism.

  79. @kaganovitch
    @Daniel Williams

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?


    Yes, that was the lefty line for decades ; The FBI cannot be trusted, Cointelpro etc. etc. It's as Erdogan says "Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off". The Left is Erdoganite at heart. All their sogenannte principles are simply means to achieve power. Once achieved those "principles" can be safely dispensed with.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    “They’re our (the Left’s) [war] planes now.” During the administrations of Billy Jeff, and it was supposed to be permanent after 1/20/2013. Our planes, our tanks, our ships, our FBI, and our CIA.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  80. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    You are missing the point. The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party. So that when the other party is in the White House, the CIA and the rest of the Permanent Government is a 5th Column undermining the elected government. And when their party is in office, you have a sort of echo chamber where the President is not getting objective advice either.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal (and the answer was no). The President is the head of the Executive Branch and is entitled to loyal and trusted advisers. If my clients thought that I was going to rat them out, they wouldn’t be able to speak freely to me and they couldn’t get proper advice from me. Everyone inside the White House should have the same obligation of confidentiality. Otherwise it becomes impossible to govern.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party.
     
    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal
     
    Well, I don't think Comey said that he would be disloyal, more that it was not appropriate for one public servant to swear personal allegiance to another, which would be an insult to his integrity. Or should there be something like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDhUjM8D4Q

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hibernian

  81. Trump needs to stop playing defense and start prosecuting these swamp dwellers and putting them in prison.

    I don’t think he ever realized what a bloodsport politics is and he naively filled his cabinet with swamp dwellers.

    Although, maybe an impeachment and removal will lead to the civil break up and national divorce that I want.

  82. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    Having personal opinions on the one hand and pursuing your own policy agenda or that of outsiders opposed to your nominal boss on the other are two very different things. What’s happening is electioneering, and it’s become permanent.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Hibernian

    Exactly. The permanent bureaucracy is determined that voting shall not be allowed to change the government.

  83. @Pericles
    @Hail

    Yeah, it's like every ensemble TV show episode has to mention the current cast is 'family'.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The less that real communities and families exist, the more we have to talk about fake ones.

  84. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    You are missing the point. The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party. So that when the other party is in the White House, the CIA and the rest of the Permanent Government is a 5th Column undermining the elected government. And when their party is in office, you have a sort of echo chamber where the President is not getting objective advice either.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal (and the answer was no). The President is the head of the Executive Branch and is entitled to loyal and trusted advisers. If my clients thought that I was going to rat them out, they wouldn't be able to speak freely to me and they couldn't get proper advice from me. Everyone inside the White House should have the same obligation of confidentiality. Otherwise it becomes impossible to govern.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party.

    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal

    Well, I don’t think Comey said that he would be disloyal, more that it was not appropriate for one public servant to swear personal allegiance to another, which would be an insult to his integrity. Or should there be something like this?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason


    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.
     
    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage - he is not "one of them". Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @dfordoom

    , @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason

    The President is a clown; if he were smart he would have just said to himself, "I know this guy is not loyal, like a lot of others, and he's in a very key position. I need to fire him just as soon as I've identified a replacement." Instead he created ammunition for his enemies.

    Replies: @Jack D

  85. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    – HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Popcorn’s on me! Thanks … if this happens, my will to live makes a conditional comeback. Nothing’s better to watch than a good ol’ train wreck.

  86. … The whistle-blower, a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House at one point, first expressed his concerns anonymously to the agency’s top lawyer. …

    Have we got a name, yet. Surely there were not that many CIA operatives assigned to the White House during Trumps early days. George Smiley, perhaps.

  87. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    I thought the New York Times was the CIA?

    Perhaps I have been dumbed down by reading this internet stuff.

  88. Anon[782] • Disclaimer says:
    @donvonburg
    @Anonymous


    Before you cancel your New York Times subscription: Do you think our country would be better off without the New York Times, or with an under-funded New York Times?
     
    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That's an easy one.

    Replies: @Anon, @BenKenobi

    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That’s an easy one.

    The entire organization should have been scrapped after it was tainted by Operation Mockingbird. Torn down to its studs so that anything erected in its place could have no heritage leading back to the original.

    The same goes for the intelligence agencies involved. The demonic and well-documented horrors of MKUltra, waged against the citizens of North America and including child rape, also serving to accuse the alphabet agencies. Crimes to which they still have not been held accountable.

    In a legitimate democracy, getting rid of those iterations of those organizations wouldn’t have even been a decision. In our pseudo-democracy, these operations apparently were legitimate building blocks to the society that we now have.

    Another obvious symptom of the dysfunctional nature of this pseudo-democracy is that The Washington Post should be held to be a journalistic joke by all other journalists after its owner famously got in bed with the CIA. But it isn’t.

  89. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    I think you must share Joe Biden’s paste.

  90. @Whiskey
    The Cia is now basically the DNC. So every Republican will distrust it and refund it.

    I expect Trump to say global warming is such a top priority he's detailing the entire via to Alaska to check it out and get back to him.

    Meanwhile pumping up Military intelligence. He really needs a money spigot military buildup like Reagan. No one wants to end the good times rolling.

    Cia. Now eternally at war with Republicans. And deplorable s.

    Oh yes Hillary is running.

    Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster, @The Anti-Gnostic

    My impression is the CIA is Congregation Beth Shalom and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

    • LOL: Gordo
  91. @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason

    Having personal opinions on the one hand and pursuing your own policy agenda or that of outsiders opposed to your nominal boss on the other are two very different things. What's happening is electioneering, and it's become permanent.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Exactly. The permanent bureaucracy is determined that voting shall not be allowed to change the government.

    • Agree: Hail
  92. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    This is ironic, no? Do you not know where Papa Bush tended bar for 350 whole days in 1976? Have a read of this loving tongue bath.

    The men and women of the Central Intelligence Agency join the nation in mourning the loss of one of the most influential and beloved directors in the Agency’s history.

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2018-featured-story-archive/george-h-w-bush2014the-11th-director-of-central-intelligence.html

    Take a guess at the name of the CIA HQ building, and I’ll try a guess at your friend’s name. Brent Scowcroft?

  93. President Trump answered questions from reporters for the first time since James Comey, the FBI director he fired, testified in great detail about his interactions with the president. Trump flatly denied that he ever asked Comey for a pledge of loyalty.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/06/09/532288979/trump-denies-asking-james-comey-for-pledge-of-loyalty

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Jonathan Mason


    President Trump answered questions from reporters for the first time since James Comey, the FBI director he fired, testified in great detail about his interactions with the president. Trump flatly denied that he ever asked Comey for a pledge of loyalty.
     
    Great. I’m sure sainted JFK swore his little brother to a sacred oath of disinterestedness before making him the FBI director’s boss.
  94. @Anonymous

    a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House at one point
     
    In what capacity are CIA officers "detailed" to the White House?

    Replies: @Forbes, @Prester John

    In what capacity are CIA officers “detailed” to the White House?

    To collect intelligence…of course…

    (Posted the the NSC, AFAIK.)

  95. @Jonathan Mason
    President Trump answered questions from reporters for the first time since James Comey, the FBI director he fired, testified in great detail about his interactions with the president. Trump flatly denied that he ever asked Comey for a pledge of loyalty.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/06/09/532288979/trump-denies-asking-james-comey-for-pledge-of-loyalty

    Replies: @Abe

    President Trump answered questions from reporters for the first time since James Comey, the FBI director he fired, testified in great detail about his interactions with the president. Trump flatly denied that he ever asked Comey for a pledge of loyalty.

    Great. I’m sure sainted JFK swore his little brother to a sacred oath of disinterestedness before making him the FBI director’s boss.

    • LOL: JMcG
  96. @Hypnotoad666
    In fairness, from the New York Time's perspective the CIA is "nonpolitical," since the two of them are always in bed together regardless of which party controls the White House.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Forbes

    In fairness, from the CIA’s perspective the New York Times is “nonpolitical,” since the two of them are always in bed together regardless of which party controls the White House.

    Does that work any better…

  97. @Prof. Woland
    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

    Replies: @El Dato, @George, @Charles Pewitt

    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

    If it ain’t Ben and Jerry’s New York City pal Bernie Sanders as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see millions of voters go for the Green Party.

    Elizabeth Warren, as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, won’t be able to keep the Green Party from getting big vote totals in important Electoral College states. Warren skepticism from millions of voters will balloon the vote totals for the Green Party.

    If Joe Biden is the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see the Green Party bursting at the seams with all the votes they will get.

    If the Green Party grabs the allegiance of millions of voters after it is clear who the Democrat Party presidential nominee is, you’ll see the corporate propaganda apparatus give wide media coverage of a Ross Perot/Pat Buchanan/Alt-Right candidate and political party to siphon votes from Trump and the Republican Party.

    First past the post electoral systems naturally creates a two-party system, but sometimes, as in England and the USA now, situations arise where the two major parties splinter asunder and new political groupings emerge.

    • Replies: @Redman
    @Charles Pewitt

    Doubt it. Bernie will cave, like he caved when he had his one real shot against Cankles.

    He’ll tell his acolytes to support the “younger” and more feminine version of himself when it’s clear he’s done. And they’ll do so easily.

    Warren has a legit shot here.

    , @Cato
    @Charles Pewitt

    If the Democrats move toward Green, and away from Identity, I would be happy. Identity politics are tearing us apart, while Green politics, like the politics of war, can bring us together. I'm tired of an America where everyone hates me, the white hetero male.

  98. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party.
     
    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal
     
    Well, I don't think Comey said that he would be disloyal, more that it was not appropriate for one public servant to swear personal allegiance to another, which would be an insult to his integrity. Or should there be something like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDhUjM8D4Q

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hibernian

    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.

    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage – he is not “one of them”. Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior),

    How does George W Bush qualify as a 'West Texas pseudo-hick'? He's lived variously in Houston, Dallas, and the Hill Country, none of which are in West Texas. The family did live in Midland at one time, but that was nearly 60 years ago. He has a Southern accent, but that's quite unremarkable for someone born in 1946 who has lived about 3/4 of his life in Texas. Brother Neil Bush drawls too, though it's less intense. There's an antique video of Marvin Bush on Youtube. He also had a noticeable drawl at age 31. As for Bush's hobbies, they include his exercise program, reading biographies, Bible study, and, in recent years, painting - all blandly suburban.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Simply Simon

    , @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    And consider Brennan appearing at the Aspen Institute. The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture. They're massively into Hollywood and big tech, they are the promoters and perhaps the plotters of these disastrous cultural experiments, which after all are what they did during the Cold War: identify and strengthen countercultural freak points in an enemy society.
    Trump is an attempt by America to at least register disapproval with everything they've been forcing on us, so it goes beyond club membership.
    Trump was dumb to treat his first day as president as a first day as CEO, but the truly correct move would have been to shut things down until we can find out what's been going on. If the CIA wouldn't tell Jimmy Carter anything about UFOs, they certainly wouldn't respect any order (or national will) regarding their lifetime project. Which kicks the ball into new and exciting territory.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    ...you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump
     
    \

    Lots of people will have voted for Trump because they always vote Republican all the way down the ticket regardless of whether they like the party candidate.

    I didn't like Trump, but I voted for him as the lesser of two evils and because he seemed to be offering a less belligerent foreign policy and radical health care insurance reform. Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary?

    Washington DC is mostly black, but many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @William Badwhite

    , @dfordoom
    @Jack D


    The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA.
     
    Yep. And it's true of the officer corps of the military and it's largely true of the whole law enforcement apparatus. Despite the fantasies of rightists.

    Why this is true is a question for another day,
     
    And it's a very very important question.

    and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites
     
    The intelligence agencies exist in order to serve the elites. That's always been the case. The nature of the elites may have changed somewhat over the years, although probably less than most people think.
  99. @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Yes, the country would be better off without most of the media. I doubt there are many reporters anymore, by which I mean people like the Kilgallans (father and daughter) who saw it as their vocation to tell stories of any and all kinds. Fun fact: three of James Kilgallan's four great-grandchildren work in media and communications, but none of them are reporters.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    We need a Warren Commission to look into Dorothy Kilgallen’s untimely death.

    She was on What’s My Line?, but someone else might have been eligible for I’ve Got a Secret.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    Would a Warren Commission investigation of her death whitewash it?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  100. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    Leftists hated the government because they weren’t the government. Now they are the government they have nothing but praise for government workers.

  101. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    My niece’s husband works for an intelligence agency, the NGA. He’s fanatically anti-Trump. I met another guy recently whose brother works for the FBI. He told me that his brother wears a t-shirt at the gym that says “Proud Agent of the Deep State.” These people have picked a side and are confident they’ll win.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Harry Baldwin

    NGA I think is National Geospatial Agency. People like Special Agents Mc Gee and Bishop on NCIS. (I think Gibbs [the boss] recruited Bishop from the similar, but better known, NSA.) They're graduate level math (or related field) majors who tend to be socially and politically like English and History majors. It's more concerning when Fedgovs street cops go Left. It probably has something to do with society in general going left and their wanting to go with the flo, and my guess is they don't tend to be hard left

    , @Corvinus
    @Harry Baldwin

    "These people have picked a side and are confident they’ll win."

    Indeed. They protect America.

  102. @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    The president of the United States called and spoke with the president of Ukraine about a Ukrainian corruption investigation involving the son of a US Vice President.

    Nothing wrong with that. Foreign affairs, such as speaking with other heads of state is the US Presidents job.

  103. @donvonburg
    @Anonymous


    Before you cancel your New York Times subscription: Do you think our country would be better off without the New York Times, or with an under-funded New York Times?
     
    I think our country would be better off without the New York Times. That's an easy one.

    Replies: @Anon, @BenKenobi

    Not too mention all the NYT staff and any unironic subscribers!

  104. @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    OK, I am dense, I am stoopid, I am partisan. What did President Trump say (channeling Harvey Fierstein) that is so . . . wrooonnng?

    Are we even looking at the same transcript? The rumors were that Mr. Trump nagged Mr. Zelensky about l’Affaire Hunter Biden, and we know Mr. Trump likes to repeat himself in his sales pitches, but eight times?

    Fake news. In what I saw of the transcript, Trump and Zelensky go about their bromance-building congratulatory patter when Mr. Trump asks a “favor” of Mr. Zelensky, to look into Crowd Strike, which had something to do with the Russian Collusion accusations. Zelensky brushes off the offered help saying his new prosecutor will get to the bottom of it. It is Zelensky who then offers that his prosecutor will also pursue the Hunter Biden matter. Trump counters that Zelensky can telephone Rudy as well as Attorney General Barr?

    What was even remotely improper about this exchange? Did they exchange tips how as married men they could “pick up hot Ukranian babes?”

  105. @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco

    We need a Warren Commission to look into Dorothy Kilgallen's untimely death.

    She was on What's My Line?, but someone else might have been eligible for I've Got a Secret.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    Would a Warren Commission investigation of her death whitewash it?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Liberal


    Would a Warren Commission investigation of her death whitewash it?
     
    Sinatra is dead.

    Get Rowan Farrow on the story!

  106. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    The problem is not that CIA officers have political views. It is that these views nowadays are mostly aligned with one party.
     
    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.

    Trump grasped this on day 1 when he asked Comey whether he would be loyal
     
    Well, I don't think Comey said that he would be disloyal, more that it was not appropriate for one public servant to swear personal allegiance to another, which would be an insult to his integrity. Or should there be something like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDhUjM8D4Q

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hibernian

    The President is a clown; if he were smart he would have just said to himself, “I know this guy is not loyal, like a lot of others, and he’s in a very key position. I need to fire him just as soon as I’ve identified a replacement.” Instead he created ammunition for his enemies.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hibernian

    He is not a clown but he had never held elective office before. He had come from a world where employees are generally loyal to the people who sign their paychecks. When Trump buys a hotel, the employees of that hotel switch their loyalty to him and don't act as spies for Hilton.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  107. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    >patriotism
    >honor
    >decency
    >torturing children within earshot of their parents
    >Hitlerite war crimes, ie, aggression
    >the massive lies effected to justify aggression
    >allowing businesses to write their own regulations
    >Mitch giving boats to China
    >the complete abandonment of endangered people and historical allies
    >the embrace of enemies who want us to die violently
    >the destruction of the Constitution to look good for the next election
    >patriotism
    >honor
    >decency

  108. @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason

    The President is a clown; if he were smart he would have just said to himself, "I know this guy is not loyal, like a lot of others, and he's in a very key position. I need to fire him just as soon as I've identified a replacement." Instead he created ammunition for his enemies.

    Replies: @Jack D

    He is not a clown but he had never held elective office before. He had come from a world where employees are generally loyal to the people who sign their paychecks. When Trump buys a hotel, the employees of that hotel switch their loyalty to him and don’t act as spies for Hilton.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Most employees are if anything too damn loyal for their own good. Corporations do insanely stupid stuff all the time and it would be rational for employees to dime out their failing policies, especially in public corporations where theoretically there could be a shareholder revolt.

    That said I bet Trump is a good, maybe great employer and is genuinely respected by his employees.

  109. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason


    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.
     
    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage - he is not "one of them". Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @dfordoom

    (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior),

    How does George W Bush qualify as a ‘West Texas pseudo-hick’? He’s lived variously in Houston, Dallas, and the Hill Country, none of which are in West Texas. The family did live in Midland at one time, but that was nearly 60 years ago. He has a Southern accent, but that’s quite unremarkable for someone born in 1946 who has lived about 3/4 of his life in Texas. Brother Neil Bush drawls too, though it’s less intense. There’s an antique video of Marvin Bush on Youtube. He also had a noticeable drawl at age 31. As for Bush’s hobbies, they include his exercise program, reading biographies, Bible study, and, in recent years, painting – all blandly suburban.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You're describing good reasons supporting Mr. D attaching "Pseudo" to hick." No, he's not a likely character for "Walker, Texas Ranger" except as the town banker, or more likely one in DFW or Houston, maybe Austin. However, the Bible study is a more likely hobby for suburbanites in Texas or Georgia, not so much in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, or even Chicago.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Bubba

    , @Simply Simon
    @Art Deco

    If you are a Texan, anything west of Austin is West Texas.

  110. @Harry Baldwin
    @Jack Henson

    My niece's husband works for an intelligence agency, the NGA. He's fanatically anti-Trump. I met another guy recently whose brother works for the FBI. He told me that his brother wears a t-shirt at the gym that says "Proud Agent of the Deep State." These people have picked a side and are confident they'll win.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Corvinus

    NGA I think is National Geospatial Agency. People like Special Agents Mc Gee and Bishop on NCIS. (I think Gibbs [the boss] recruited Bishop from the similar, but better known, NSA.) They’re graduate level math (or related field) majors who tend to be socially and politically like English and History majors. It’s more concerning when Fedgovs street cops go Left. It probably has something to do with society in general going left and their wanting to go with the flo, and my guess is they don’t tend to be hard left

  111. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior),

    How does George W Bush qualify as a 'West Texas pseudo-hick'? He's lived variously in Houston, Dallas, and the Hill Country, none of which are in West Texas. The family did live in Midland at one time, but that was nearly 60 years ago. He has a Southern accent, but that's quite unremarkable for someone born in 1946 who has lived about 3/4 of his life in Texas. Brother Neil Bush drawls too, though it's less intense. There's an antique video of Marvin Bush on Youtube. He also had a noticeable drawl at age 31. As for Bush's hobbies, they include his exercise program, reading biographies, Bible study, and, in recent years, painting - all blandly suburban.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Simply Simon

    You’re describing good reasons supporting Mr. D attaching “Pseudo” to hick.” No, he’s not a likely character for “Walker, Texas Ranger” except as the town banker, or more likely one in DFW or Houston, maybe Austin. However, the Bible study is a more likely hobby for suburbanites in Texas or Georgia, not so much in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, or even Chicago.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Hibernian

    No, Mr. D is pretending George W. Bush manufactured a fake persona. Which he didn't.

    , @Bubba
    @Hibernian


    ...except as the town banker,
     
    His brother Neil did that at Silverado Banking, Savings and Loan Association and it cost the U.S taxpayers over $1 billion.
  112. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason


    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.
     
    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage - he is not "one of them". Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @dfordoom

    And consider Brennan appearing at the Aspen Institute. The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture. They’re massively into Hollywood and big tech, they are the promoters and perhaps the plotters of these disastrous cultural experiments, which after all are what they did during the Cold War: identify and strengthen countercultural freak points in an enemy society.
    Trump is an attempt by America to at least register disapproval with everything they’ve been forcing on us, so it goes beyond club membership.
    Trump was dumb to treat his first day as president as a first day as CEO, but the truly correct move would have been to shut things down until we can find out what’s been going on. If the CIA wouldn’t tell Jimmy Carter anything about UFOs, they certainly wouldn’t respect any order (or national will) regarding their lifetime project. Which kicks the ball into new and exciting territory.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @J.Ross

    The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture.

    Or it's a flabby, inept, self-dealing public bureaucracy. Think of John Brennan as Karen Lewis with language skills.

    Replies: @Jack D

  113. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    On board with Biden being out, not sure if right after NH.

    Not sure why Pelosi agreeing to hearings works against her with her Progressive wing. Expect her to make it past the election, so Trump would have to be re-elected for her to be out before Trump is out.

    HRC would love that, but I’m thinking Democrats have moved on and this is not happening. Great anger at her for losing a winnable election against whom they see as a despicable opponent. My liberal children would not want her back in.

  114. @Cagey Beast
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yes, this is one of the defining characteristics of the current ruling class: as much as possible, they pretend they don't exist. It's part of the "end of history" consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best. Only a tinfoil hat wearing Flat Earther or populist Nazi would say the CIA or NYT are a part of an elite political faction that's fighting Trump to maintain its turf.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross

    Gold box; and hence the possible crisis when just ordinary guy Joe Blow (who happens to be related to a former Vice-President of the United States) gets $600,000/yr from an embattled foreign government.

  115. @Anonymous

    a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House at one point
     
    In what capacity are CIA officers "detailed" to the White House?

    Replies: @Forbes, @Prester John

    Hmmm….!!

  116. @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    Would a Warren Commission investigation of her death whitewash it?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Would a Warren Commission investigation of her death whitewash it?

    Sinatra is dead.

    Get Rowan Farrow on the story!

  117. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics: “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.”

    Case in point: Do you think the Dulles brother would have spent one second worrying about how global warming affects national security.* https://insideclimatenews.org/news/13022018/climate-change-conflict-disasters-worldwide-threat-assessment-intelligence-agencies-refugees

    * Aside from man-made thermonuclear warming, that is.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Hypnotoad666


    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics: “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.”
     
    They haven't really changed their outlook very much at all. To be mainstream right-wing these days means to be a worshipper of globalism and bureaucracy. And the national security crowd were always fans of bureaucracy, being a species of bureaucrat themselves.

    Conquest was wrong. Most institutions have become effectively more right-wing over time. Globalism, social justice, open borders - all right-wing ideologies. These are all ideologies supported and funded by capitalists, because they're in the interests of capitalists. Since Conquest formulated his law the Left has in fact collapsed. Communism has disappeared.

    The national security crowd are probably overwhelmingly Democrat voters. Why wouldn't they be? The Democrats are fully onboard with all these right-wing ideologies.

    A more accurate version of Conquest’s Second Law of Politics would be: “All organizations become progressively more corrupt and self-serving and more in tune with those who wield the real power."

    Replies: @Art Deco

  118. @Art Deco
    @slumber_j

    Ha ha ha. Call me Janey. All my friends do.

    Replies: @Anon

    Sorry, please explain?

  119. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited. But, that’s about an impressive as predicting the sun will rise tomorrow.

    Couple of more predictions:
    - Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.

    - Pelosi is out as Speaker before Trump is out of the Oval Office. When she agreed to impeachment hearings she gave the Squad the rope they will us to hang her.

    - HRC jumps back in the race as the “moderate, electable” candidate to oppose Warren and America is subject to six months of two banshees clawing each other’s eyes out to become the Democratic candidate.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Peter Akuleyev, @Hail, @Reactionary Utopian, @RAZ, @Prester John

    Biden is bye-byeski. Not sure about Pelosi yet, though she has backed obviously backed herself into a corner with this impeachment dreck. We’ll see. As to the Rodham woman, she was recently reported to be on another one of her patented “listening tours.”

  120. @Reg Cæsar

    Sainted Whistleblower Is Actually CIA
     
    Perhaps a tranny, like Bradley Chelsea Manning, or a fetishist like Robert Hanssen?

    Replies: @Ozymandias

    “Perhaps a tranny, like Bradley Chelsea Manning, or a fetishist like Robert Hanssen?”

    I believe “secret witness” would be the appropriate moniker.

  121. You know how small businesses and movie posters have testimonial blurbs on their ads? The C.I.A. should do that: “…a nonpolitical agency… 4 stars” — N.Y. Times, 2019

    • LOL: Hibernian
  122. @Jonathan Mason

    Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency.”
     
    The way the word "political" as used in the US constantly leads to confusion.

    In UK current affairs speak, there is a very useful word called "electioneering" which describes anything done or said by politicians that is related to trying to garner votes in current or future elections, as distinct from actions that are "political"--meaning matters of government or public affairs.

    In the US, the word "political" nearly always means "electioneering" or something to do with political parties struggling for power, although there is also the word "partisan" that refers to matters of political parties.

    When the Editor of the NYT says the CIA is a nonpolitical agency, that just means that it is not aligned with one party or the other, and that its members are federal government employees, not political appointees, except for the Director of the CIA, who is nominated by the President, but must be confirmed by the Senate.

    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    Replies: @Justvisiting, @El Dato, @Jack D, @Hibernian, @dr kill, @Prester John

    Can’t speak about the CIA but I have a cousin who’s a retired Secret Service employee and who was assigned to the White House when the Clintons slithered in. He once told me that the general consensus among SecSvce personnel was that both of ’em were lowlife scum. That he and his colleagues continued to do their job is testimony to their peerless professionalism.

  123. What are the laws covering the identity of CIA employees?

    How careful do Republicans have to be?

  124. @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You're describing good reasons supporting Mr. D attaching "Pseudo" to hick." No, he's not a likely character for "Walker, Texas Ranger" except as the town banker, or more likely one in DFW or Houston, maybe Austin. However, the Bible study is a more likely hobby for suburbanites in Texas or Georgia, not so much in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, or even Chicago.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Bubba

    No, Mr. D is pretending George W. Bush manufactured a fake persona. Which he didn’t.

  125. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    I can’t understand how #CancelNYT works as a left-wing mob. Of course we have dummy lumpencons who blanche at the thought of any “blown cover” or harsh words said in anger against the noble Army/Navy/Air Force/CIA/NSA (comprising “our brave men in uniform,” am I right). However, making an admittedly huge exception for Valerie Plame, I can’t recall liberals giving a damn about cover-blowing. In the 70s they egged it on. For an exception to test the rule, the Plame affair was obviously phony and opportunistic, to the point that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby didn’t think before idly mocking it to other Journalists. Not to mention it was led by NatSec lifer bureaucrat Republicans, with the MoveOn/HuffPo sheep following in the fun.

    In the Bidenkrainegate case, not only was the “undercover” agent already known to Trump & co. at the time, this “exposure” only lathers on more media protection to the guy or lady. It turned out not to be some lowly White House tour guide taking huge personal risk, whose life is now going to be upended, etc. How do you arrive at knee-jerk whiteliberal outrage at the NYT from what’s known so far?

  126. Former CIA, NSA directors, retired generals, launch gun control group

    Former directors of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, as well as several 3- and 4-star generals and admirals have launched a new effort to control the sales of guns in the United States. The effort is certain to attract attention after last weekend’s deadly mass shooting in Orlando, Florida. The group, which calls itself Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, is led by former CIA Director David Petraeus, former CIA and NSA Director Michael Hayden, and US Army General (ret.) Stanely McChrystal. The group’s advisory committee includes recognizable figures such as that of Admiral Eric Olson, who led US Special Operations Command from 2007 to 2011 and was the first US Navy SEAL to be appointed to four-star rank. Other advisory committee members include high-ranking veterans from every branch of the US Armed Forces, such as R. Adm. Jamie Barnett, Brig. Gen. Stephen Cheney and Air Force commander Lt. Gen. Norman Seip.

    The group was formally launched at a press conference in Washington, DC, on Friday, just hours before Sunday morning’s mass shooting in Orlando. The organizers of the new effort said it came out of the 120,000-member strong Veterans for Responsible Solutions, a project spearheaded by USN R. Adm. Barnett in 2013, after the mass shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, which killed 15 people. Another group that has offered support for the new effort, and will act as its parent organization, is Americans for Responsible Solutions, a non-profit organization that promotes gun control in compliance with the US Constitution. It was founded shortly after the 2012 shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtwon, CT, which killed 28. The organization’s founders are former NASA astronaut Mark Kelly and his wife, Gabrielle Giffords, whose Congressional career was cut short in January 2011, after she and 18 other people were shot in Tucson, AZ.

    During their press conference on Friday, Veterans Coalition for Common Sense leaders said each had “swore an oath to protect our Constitution and the homeland”. But they were now “asking our leaders to do more to protect our rights and save lives”, they added. The group said they aimed to encourage their elected representatives to “do more to prevent gun tragedies”, including closing legal loops on gun background checks, strengthening gun control laws more broadly, and focusing on the mental health component that appears to be part of many mass shootings. In a separate development, another former Director of the CIA, John McLaughlin, said on Monday that “an assault weapons ban makes sense, at least to me”. In an interview with news site OZY, McLaughlin said that, in his personal view, “it is way past time for an assault weapons ban”.

    https://intelnews.org/2016/06/14/01-1918/

  127. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail
    @Lot


    Community
     
    Do you ever notice that the word "community," has been -- re-appropriated?

    The political class loves the word "community" for groups it approves of, and neglects to use it otherwise. Hence that famous phrase, so often heard from elite media and on down the line, "the Black community." Never does one hear of a "White community."

    "Intelligence community": Likewise a sainted phrase, used and approved from on-high. When talking about US intelligence agencies, it seems almost obligatory to use this charming and inoffensive phrasing. "Community"!

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hail, @Anonymous

    “community” – n. Collective designation for groups of people who always cooperate. They never criticize, spy on, or try to steal each other’s work-product, instead behaving as a cohesive large family with shared interests. e.g.:
    the LGBTIAQ+ community;
    the Scientific community, a/k/a global Scientific community;
    the Silicon Valley/tech community;
    the Hollywood pedo community;
    …and so on.

  128. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason


    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.
     
    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage - he is not "one of them". Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @dfordoom

    …you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump

    \

    Lots of people will have voted for Trump because they always vote Republican all the way down the ticket regardless of whether they like the party candidate.

    I didn’t like Trump, but I voted for him as the lesser of two evils and because he seemed to be offering a less belligerent foreign policy and radical health care insurance reform. Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary?

    Washington DC is mostly black, but many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jonathan Mason

    You have eight major jurisdictions in the Washington commuter belt. The Republicans are competitive in two and dominate none.

    , @William Badwhite
    @Jonathan Mason


    Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary...many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.
     
    Yes, there is plenty of reason. The DC suburbs are an occupied territory filled with federal employees, contractors, lawyers, and their spawn all feeding at the trough. These people vote overwhelmingly Democrat. The counties surrounding Imperial Rome, err Washington are the reason Virginia went Dem. DC itself went 93% for Clinton. 93% is Soviet type margins.

    The MD and VA counties surrounding Washington DC:

    Virginia: The city of Alexandria went 77% for Clinton; Arlington County 77%; Fairfax County 65%; formerly very conservative Loudoun County, former territory of the Gray Ghost of the Confederacy John Mosby went 55% for the drunken war criminal; Prince William County 57%.

    Maryland: Prince George's County went 89% for Clinton; Montgomery County 76%; Howard County 64%.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  129. @Hail
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    prediction:
    – Joe Biden is out after the NH primary. He’s the primary victim of this mess.
     
    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?

    I don’t know that he’s made a formal prediction…but he seems to think Warren will be the nominee.

    And if so, then he is correct.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Kevin O'Keeffe


    I don’t know that he’s made a formal prediction
     
    "I very seldom make election predictions." -- Steve Sailer, November 5, 2018.

    ______________

    he seems to think Warren will be the nominee
     
    I would like to here engage in some Sailerology by guessing what Steve's long-run-average 'prediction' is based on his blogging rates by candidate name.

    iSteve blog posts with with "Harris" in title since Jan. 2019: 7, plus 5 for "Kamala" without Harris = 12. (First-ever posts on Kamala were in June 2016 [Takimag article] and Jan. 2018)

    ... with "Biden" in title: 9, plus 1 for 'Old White Joe' = 10.

    ...with "Warren" in the title: 8, of which one was Warren Buffet and one Warren Zevon, leaving 6 for Elizabeth "0.2% Amerind" Warren. Plus 1 for 'Fauxcahontas,' = 7.

    ...with "Booker" in title: 5.

    ...with "Sanders" in title: 1, plus 2 for "Bernie," of which one is Madoff and one is Sanders), = 2. (Steve Sailer blogged much more about Bernie in 2015-2016, with about two posts per month with "Bernie" or "Sanders" in the title during the entire election season starting in May 2015; at the same rate today, he would have about 10 Bernie posts, not 2.)

    ...with "Beto" in title: 2.

    ...with "Buttigieg" in title: 1.

    ...with "Yang" in title: 1.

    ...with "Gabbard" or "Tulsi" in title: 0.

    _____________
    Total of above: 40 posts, with Harris at 30%, Biden at 25%, Warren at 17.5%, Booker at 12.5%, Sanders at 5%, Beto at 5%.

    The RCP rolling average today has Biden at 28%, Warren at 21%, Sanders at 17%, Buttigieg at 5.5%, Harris at 5.0%, Yang at 3.3%, Beto at 2.5%, and Booker, Klobuchar, Castro, Tulsi, Bennet, and Steyer at between 0.8% and 1.8% each.

    --> This method of Sailerology finds Sailer posts track the Biden and Warren polling averages very well, but far overpredict Harris and Booker and far underpredict Sanders.
  130. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    I had an acquaintance at one time who was a retired CIA intelligence agent who had met a number of Presidents during the course of his work. He did not rate their intelligence very highly with the exception of the elder Bush. No doubt CIA agents, whether electorally partisan or not, form personal opinions about Presidents.

    There's a reason Wm. J. Casey set up a separate brain trust of outsiders who hadn't been promoted within the ranks. One of the members of it gave a talk at Hillsdale College some years back and offered that one of the problems with the agency is that it's employees think the information flow to them relieves them of the obligation of doing any outside reading. Most, he said, read nothing more demanding than a few metropolitan newspapers. The man disparaging the intelligence of Messrs. Clinton, Bush, and Obama prospered in a bureaucracy which promoted Aldrich Ames again and again.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment? I thought he was retained as a chess piece to insulate other, more competent double agents during the mid-80s freakout where undercover Americans were getting rolled up on the other side. Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA’s part.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA’s part.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy321dfYvms

    , @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    Yes, the CIA is full of geniuses playing 5D chess and effortly executing triple bankshot moves like this.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Anonymous


    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment?
     
    The KGB rolled up almost every asset the CIA had in Russia and executed most of them. I would have stood Ames up against a wall and shot him.
  131. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack Henson


    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have?
     
    If you include counter-intelligence, lots of 'em - including ones you never heard of.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @R.G. Camara

    NCIS (in real life as well as the show) is counterintel for the Navy and Marine Corps, along with its criminal investigation duties (for felonies.)

  132. @Hibernian
    @Art Deco

    You're describing good reasons supporting Mr. D attaching "Pseudo" to hick." No, he's not a likely character for "Walker, Texas Ranger" except as the town banker, or more likely one in DFW or Houston, maybe Austin. However, the Bible study is a more likely hobby for suburbanites in Texas or Georgia, not so much in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, or even Chicago.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Bubba

    …except as the town banker,

    His brother Neil did that at Silverado Banking, Savings and Loan Association and it cost the U.S taxpayers over $1 billion.

  133. @Mike Zwick
    I thought that the New York Times was a subsidiary of the CIA?

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Or is it the other way around?

  134. @Jack Henson
    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have? Off the top of my head we have the CIA, DIA, NSA.

    Is Naval Intelligence part of the DIA?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @kaganovitch, @Lot, @Rufio Panman Fan, @Art Deco, @Mr. Anon, @Harry Baldwin, @SaneClownPosse

    Naval Intelligence was America’s first spy organization.
    Naval attaches posted to US embassies were the equivalent of a CIA Chief of Station.

  135. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    The Cult Marxists are in power. Hence why the secret police agencies have gone from the bad guys to the good guys in their minds; because now the secret police agencies work for the commies. Hence why Comey let Hillary walk and exonerated her in a press conference, and why they illegally spied on Trump at Obama’s behest using false information.

    The KGB was lauded by the Soviets because it kept them in power. The same with the FBI/CIA/NSA and the commies today.

  136. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack Henson


    How many intelligence-esque agencies does the US have?
     
    If you include counter-intelligence, lots of 'em - including ones you never heard of.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @R.G. Camara

    Yeah, its how we at least have the Venona files. The Army was running intel that the corrupted FBI and CIA didn’t know about, and thus couldn’t shut down.

    Sadly, I think the alphabet agencies learned their errors and have the military intel on lockdown these days. That plus diversity in the ranks killed any chance of that being an asset today.

  137. @Mr. Anon
    I can remember when liberals - self-professed liberals - didn't trust the CIA, the FBI, and all the various clandestine organs of the State. They even used to make movies like Three Days of the Condor, Missing, Executive Action, and JFK. Now, a good liberal Democrat's standard of American patriotism is unquestioning acceptance of whatever propaganda is put out by agents of the National Security State.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Well, the JFK conspiracies (about 90% of them, anyway) are just lefties covering for themselves.

    In reality, its a pretty strong case that an ardent communist ex-marine Oswald murdered the extremely anti-communist JFK because of JFK’s strident anti-communist actions at the time—-the Cuban missile crisis, the Berlin Airlift, the JFK Berlin speech, etc.

    But the Left freaked out over that, denied reality, and have concocted some rube goldberg-esque theories to cover that up—and blame the U.S. to boot. You’d be hardpressed to find any corporate media account mentioning Oswald’s fierce communism or JFK’s fierce anti-communism as the causes.

    I mean, FFS, Oswald literally defected to the USSR for a few years, and then tried to defect to Cuba. and then tried to kill an anti-communist U.S. general before turning to JFK. But practically no story about the JFK murders in the corporate media mentions those extremely relevant facts.

    Ironically, the only other logical possibilities are…brainwashing of Oswald by some government agency or foreign government. But we also have nothing to support that.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @R.G. Camara

    His widow has denied he was vociferous about the President. Others in the Russian emigre community in Dallas interviewed by reporters for Newsweek many years after the fact were emphatic that John Connolly was an object of considerable resentment for Oswald, as Oswald blamed him for his dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps.

    , @Anonymous
    @R.G. Camara

    It's a tribute to the power of the media that most people think Kennedy was shot by the far right not the far left.

  138. @Jack Henson
    @Ano

    I always thought it was interesting how Bush I's past of being chief spymaster for the country never got 1% of the mention of say, Putin 's, in the media.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Uncle Remus

    Bush held the job for 1 year. Nixon and Ford used Bush as a utility man in a series of positions (which he held for a mean of about 18 months). He never worked in intelligence before or after. Putin was a career spook, employed in that trade for nearly 25 years.

    • Replies: @Jack Henson
    @Art Deco

    Are you arguing that CIA Director is a meaningless title then? "Only a year." As if the Bushes weren't involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Art Deco

    George H.W. Bush appears to have helped his CIA friends from Skull and Bones out in the Bay of Pigs operations by letting them use his offshore oil drilling in Mexico assets for their logistics. Whether Bush was in the CIA or just an ally is a more complicated question.

    J. Edgar Hoover once referred to Bush as being in the CIA, but it could be that Bush was just a friend of the CIA.

    , @Clifford Brown
    @Art Deco

    Whose name graces the CIA Headquarters in Langley?

  139. @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    And consider Brennan appearing at the Aspen Institute. The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture. They're massively into Hollywood and big tech, they are the promoters and perhaps the plotters of these disastrous cultural experiments, which after all are what they did during the Cold War: identify and strengthen countercultural freak points in an enemy society.
    Trump is an attempt by America to at least register disapproval with everything they've been forcing on us, so it goes beyond club membership.
    Trump was dumb to treat his first day as president as a first day as CEO, but the truly correct move would have been to shut things down until we can find out what's been going on. If the CIA wouldn't tell Jimmy Carter anything about UFOs, they certainly wouldn't respect any order (or national will) regarding their lifetime project. Which kicks the ball into new and exciting territory.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture.

    Or it’s a flabby, inept, self-dealing public bureaucracy. Think of John Brennan as Karen Lewis with language skills.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    At some point, the KGB became a flabby , inept, self-dealing bureaucracy but they were still plenty dangerous. It's like having an elderly rattlesnake as a pet - it's still a rattlesnake as long as it lives and breathes.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  140. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment? I thought he was retained as a chess piece to insulate other, more competent double agents during the mid-80s freakout where undercover Americans were getting rolled up on the other side. Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA's part.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob

    Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA’s part.

  141. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    ...you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump
     
    \

    Lots of people will have voted for Trump because they always vote Republican all the way down the ticket regardless of whether they like the party candidate.

    I didn't like Trump, but I voted for him as the lesser of two evils and because he seemed to be offering a less belligerent foreign policy and radical health care insurance reform. Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary?

    Washington DC is mostly black, but many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @William Badwhite

    You have eight major jurisdictions in the Washington commuter belt. The Republicans are competitive in two and dominate none.

  142. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    ...you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump
     
    \

    Lots of people will have voted for Trump because they always vote Republican all the way down the ticket regardless of whether they like the party candidate.

    I didn't like Trump, but I voted for him as the lesser of two evils and because he seemed to be offering a less belligerent foreign policy and radical health care insurance reform. Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary?

    Washington DC is mostly black, but many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @William Badwhite

    Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary…many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.

    Yes, there is plenty of reason. The DC suburbs are an occupied territory filled with federal employees, contractors, lawyers, and their spawn all feeding at the trough. These people vote overwhelmingly Democrat. The counties surrounding Imperial Rome, err Washington are the reason Virginia went Dem. DC itself went 93% for Clinton. 93% is Soviet type margins.

    The MD and VA counties surrounding Washington DC:

    Virginia: The city of Alexandria went 77% for Clinton; Arlington County 77%; Fairfax County 65%; formerly very conservative Loudoun County, former territory of the Gray Ghost of the Confederacy John Mosby went 55% for the drunken war criminal; Prince William County 57%.

    Maryland: Prince George’s County went 89% for Clinton; Montgomery County 76%; Howard County 64%.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @William Badwhite

    Putting a Trump sticker on your car here in the Peoples' Republic will almost surely get it keyed by a compassionate liberal. Trump made him do it, of course.

    NoVa turned Virginia blue in the last 20 years.

  143. @Art Deco
    @J.Ross

    The CIA is our real government and our enemy, in their actions but also in their culture.

    Or it's a flabby, inept, self-dealing public bureaucracy. Think of John Brennan as Karen Lewis with language skills.

    Replies: @Jack D

    At some point, the KGB became a flabby , inept, self-dealing bureaucracy but they were still plenty dangerous. It’s like having an elderly rattlesnake as a pet – it’s still a rattlesnake as long as it lives and breathes.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    The KGB was the sole part of the Soviet government that kept functioning competently until the end, precisely because they did not tolerate Party princelings joining. It was probably the only place in the late USSR, one of the least class-mobile societies on the planet, that someone like Vladimir Putin could gain upward mobility.

    Beria seemed to be quite aware that Communism couldn't compete with the West and the USSR was best off embracing the new reality of being a neo-Muscovite imperium openly. In his memos in the early 1950s, he was in favor of ending the Cold War and restoring private property to some extent. Like most secret police chiefs (never a well liked man in any regime, even if you didn't have a sociopathic serial rapist who preyed on underage girls in the position), he had too many enemies within the regime to take power after Stalin's death and put these ideas into reality. But it is an indicator that despite being the agency that enforced official ideology, it was the least ideological agency you'd find in Moscow. They were always relatively more in touch with reality than any other part of the Soviet government as the system declined. Stalin's purges and ethnic transformation of the secret police changed it from "vanguard of the revolution" to "Ohkrana with proletarian praising slogans and amplified level of viciousness".

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  144. @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Bush held the job for 1 year. Nixon and Ford used Bush as a utility man in a series of positions (which he held for a mean of about 18 months). He never worked in intelligence before or after. Putin was a career spook, employed in that trade for nearly 25 years.

    Replies: @Jack Henson, @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    Are you arguing that CIA Director is a meaningless title then? “Only a year.” As if the Bushes weren’t involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    As if the Bushes weren’t involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    Again, that's the issue of someone's imagination, which you fancy.

    Replies: @Jack Henson

  145. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment? I thought he was retained as a chess piece to insulate other, more competent double agents during the mid-80s freakout where undercover Americans were getting rolled up on the other side. Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA's part.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob

    Yes, the CIA is full of geniuses playing 5D chess and effortly executing triple bankshot moves like this.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  146. @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    Admitted to what?

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @JudgeSmails

    Exactly.

  147. @Jack Henson
    @Ano

    I always thought it was interesting how Bush I's past of being chief spymaster for the country never got 1% of the mention of say, Putin 's, in the media.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Uncle Remus

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush’s CIA career began when
    he became Director has been questioned by many researchers. The whitewashing of this man and his family, both prior generations and succeeding ones, has been well-orchestrated and has gone on for decades. Now that all pretense of respect for political leaders has been abandoned, the guns need to be trained on the nefarious history of senior Bush and those that came with him.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Uncle Remus

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush’s CIA career began when he became Director has been questioned by many researchers

    That's right, I don't pay attention to Jim Marrs-style fantasy literature.

    , @Neoconned
    @Uncle Remus

    Until about a yr ago I didn't even know there were Reagan assassination conspiracy theories.....this guy in the comments section of a YouTube video I watched brought it up.

    At first I blew the guy off but at his urging I googled old newspaper clippings from the Google newspaper archive and found old articles talking about how Hinckley socialized with 1 of H W Bush's sons(not Dubya, Neil maybe....).....even having dinner or lunch with him.

    Here:

    http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html#.XY8o6h5Ok0M

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley.....dunno but after reading about it I said "dunno if its truth or not BUT THATS WHY people think Bush Sr was behind Reagan and his assassination attempt......."

    Replies: @Art Deco

  148. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    At some point, the KGB became a flabby , inept, self-dealing bureaucracy but they were still plenty dangerous. It's like having an elderly rattlesnake as a pet - it's still a rattlesnake as long as it lives and breathes.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    The KGB was the sole part of the Soviet government that kept functioning competently until the end, precisely because they did not tolerate Party princelings joining. It was probably the only place in the late USSR, one of the least class-mobile societies on the planet, that someone like Vladimir Putin could gain upward mobility.

    Beria seemed to be quite aware that Communism couldn’t compete with the West and the USSR was best off embracing the new reality of being a neo-Muscovite imperium openly. In his memos in the early 1950s, he was in favor of ending the Cold War and restoring private property to some extent. Like most secret police chiefs (never a well liked man in any regime, even if you didn’t have a sociopathic serial rapist who preyed on underage girls in the position), he had too many enemies within the regime to take power after Stalin’s death and put these ideas into reality. But it is an indicator that despite being the agency that enforced official ideology, it was the least ideological agency you’d find in Moscow. They were always relatively more in touch with reality than any other part of the Soviet government as the system declined. Stalin’s purges and ethnic transformation of the secret police changed it from “vanguard of the revolution” to “Ohkrana with proletarian praising slogans and amplified level of viciousness”.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @nebulafox


    Beria seemed to be quite aware that Communism couldn’t compete with the West and the USSR was best off embracing the new reality of being a neo-Muscovite imperium openly. In his memos in the early 1950s, he was in favor of ending the Cold War and restoring private property to some extent.
     
    If true, that is likely because, as secret police chief, he had unfiltered access to news from outside the Soviet bloc. He got to see the information before distortions - to make the Marxist-Leninist state look good by comparison - were added in.
  149. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Anonymous

    That's very funny. Institutions keep on hiring attack dogs that bite their new owners. Trump's favourite poem about taking a serpent into the house just keeps on getting proven right.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon

    , @MEH 0910
    @Anonymous

    Siva Vaidhyanathan Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1177748021121081344

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  150. @Charles Pewitt
    @Prof. Woland


    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

     

    If it ain't Ben and Jerry's New York City pal Bernie Sanders as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see millions of voters go for the Green Party.

    Elizabeth Warren, as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, won't be able to keep the Green Party from getting big vote totals in important Electoral College states. Warren skepticism from millions of voters will balloon the vote totals for the Green Party.

    If Joe Biden is the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see the Green Party bursting at the seams with all the votes they will get.

    If the Green Party grabs the allegiance of millions of voters after it is clear who the Democrat Party presidential nominee is, you'll see the corporate propaganda apparatus give wide media coverage of a Ross Perot/Pat Buchanan/Alt-Right candidate and political party to siphon votes from Trump and the Republican Party.

    First past the post electoral systems naturally creates a two-party system, but sometimes, as in England and the USA now, situations arise where the two major parties splinter asunder and new political groupings emerge.

    Replies: @Redman, @Cato

    Doubt it. Bernie will cave, like he caved when he had his one real shot against Cankles.

    He’ll tell his acolytes to support the “younger” and more feminine version of himself when it’s clear he’s done. And they’ll do so easily.

    Warren has a legit shot here.

  151. @Rufio Panman Fan
    @Jack Henson

    They all ultimately answer to the Mossad. I don't know of it's blackmail or fear of the Sampson Option (look it up) but that's the world we live in.

    Replies: @Olorin

    Not all.

  152. @Peter Akuleyev
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I would brag that I predicted in an earlier post that the “whistleblower” would turn out to be totally discredited.

    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.

    The only tactic Trump has is to keep trying to focus attention on Biden to distract the rubes.

    Replies: @peterike, @Alden, @Inquiring Mind, @JudgeSmails, @J.Ross

    Distract them from what? Here and in the whole collusion Hillary server issue, Democrats defend themselves by treating criticism as a crime.
    Hillary violated classified material handling laws. Saying that Hillary violated the law isn’t the crime. What Hillary did is the crime.
    Biden used aid to force a foreign government to give his family money. Trump pointing that put isn’t a crime. What Biden did was a crime.

  153. @Mr. Anon
    @Cagey Beast


    It’s part of the “end of history” consensus they built since the Nineties. According to them, in other times and places there may have been rule by aristocracy or oligarchy but here in the West we just have a bunch of highly-credentialed, facts-based, hardworking folks doing their best.
     
    You are right. And that view betrays an incredible present-bias in the thinking of a lot of people. Governments have throughout history mostly been run by cynical, ambitious, often amoral schemers. The notion that the circumstances of our own particular time and place are likely to be any different is pretty far-fetched when you think about it.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    The notion that the circumstances of our own particular time and place are likely to be any different is pretty far-fetched when you think about it.

    To be fair to the postwar generations, I can see how they got the impression we’d left harsh class distinctions and shameless political bosses behind forever. I’m unironically jealous of their optimism.

  154. @Kronos
    @Clifford Brown

    It’s been Riley Coyote vs. The Road Runner for the last three years.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/97/68/f29768a83d196e199673b89c22ec4fb5.gif

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    It’s Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner, but you are correct otherwise.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks for pointing that out. (I was close though.)

  155. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1177622805246091264

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @MEH 0910

    That’s very funny. Institutions keep on hiring attack dogs that bite their new owners. Trump’s favourite poem about taking a serpent into the house just keeps on getting proven right.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Cagey Beast

    He gave her a huge compliment and praised her journalism (because they're on the same side, ie anti-white), and she wasn't even nice to him. Because she's an Elite who works for the NYT, and he is a proletariat scum on her shoe.

    , @Anon
    @Cagey Beast

    Future new reporter orientation:

    The Times is your mother! The Times is your father!
    (I can't hear you!)

  156. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment? I thought he was retained as a chess piece to insulate other, more competent double agents during the mid-80s freakout where undercover Americans were getting rolled up on the other side. Whether it made any sense or not, promoting him must have been a knowing strategy on the CIA's part.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob

    Ames was a treasonous goldbricker to be sure, but did the KGB get anything out of their multimillion dollar investment?

    The KGB rolled up almost every asset the CIA had in Russia and executed most of them. I would have stood Ames up against a wall and shot him.

  157. @William Badwhite
    @Jonathan Mason


    Is there any reason to think that a preponderance of CIA employees would have preferred Hillary...many professional government employees live in suburbs with Maryland or Virginia addresses.
     
    Yes, there is plenty of reason. The DC suburbs are an occupied territory filled with federal employees, contractors, lawyers, and their spawn all feeding at the trough. These people vote overwhelmingly Democrat. The counties surrounding Imperial Rome, err Washington are the reason Virginia went Dem. DC itself went 93% for Clinton. 93% is Soviet type margins.

    The MD and VA counties surrounding Washington DC:

    Virginia: The city of Alexandria went 77% for Clinton; Arlington County 77%; Fairfax County 65%; formerly very conservative Loudoun County, former territory of the Gray Ghost of the Confederacy John Mosby went 55% for the drunken war criminal; Prince William County 57%.

    Maryland: Prince George's County went 89% for Clinton; Montgomery County 76%; Howard County 64%.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Putting a Trump sticker on your car here in the Peoples’ Republic will almost surely get it keyed by a compassionate liberal. Trump made him do it, of course.

    NoVa turned Virginia blue in the last 20 years.

  158. Lol I love how Peter Akulyev keeps trying to come here and muddy the waters with his MSM talking points and gets BTFO every single time. I wonder why he even bothers coming here. It’s not like it ends up making his side look any better.

    • Replies: @Icy Blast
    @Anon

    This "Akulyev" guy caught my attention by being silly and incoherent. Maybe he's just a bored prankster trying to steal some of Tiny Duck's comedic glory.

  159. @Cagey Beast
    @Anonymous

    That's very funny. Institutions keep on hiring attack dogs that bite their new owners. Trump's favourite poem about taking a serpent into the house just keeps on getting proven right.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon

    He gave her a huge compliment and praised her journalism (because they’re on the same side, ie anti-white), and she wasn’t even nice to him. Because she’s an Elite who works for the NYT, and he is a proletariat scum on her shoe.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  160. @Clifford Brown
    Flashback. Remember when this kooky lady was going to bring down Trump?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvNGX00LJk

    Replies: @Kronos, @sayless

    Why did the producer give the green light to showcase/exploit this mentally ill woman. Didn’t anybody talk to her for one minute before putting her on the air?

    You can see it from orbit, how disturbed she is. And now she’s on YouTube. Great.

    Wonderful work, CNN. You all really covered yourself with glory there.

  161. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior),

    How does George W Bush qualify as a 'West Texas pseudo-hick'? He's lived variously in Houston, Dallas, and the Hill Country, none of which are in West Texas. The family did live in Midland at one time, but that was nearly 60 years ago. He has a Southern accent, but that's quite unremarkable for someone born in 1946 who has lived about 3/4 of his life in Texas. Brother Neil Bush drawls too, though it's less intense. There's an antique video of Marvin Bush on Youtube. He also had a noticeable drawl at age 31. As for Bush's hobbies, they include his exercise program, reading biographies, Bible study, and, in recent years, painting - all blandly suburban.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Simply Simon

    If you are a Texan, anything west of Austin is West Texas.

  162. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    The KGB was the sole part of the Soviet government that kept functioning competently until the end, precisely because they did not tolerate Party princelings joining. It was probably the only place in the late USSR, one of the least class-mobile societies on the planet, that someone like Vladimir Putin could gain upward mobility.

    Beria seemed to be quite aware that Communism couldn't compete with the West and the USSR was best off embracing the new reality of being a neo-Muscovite imperium openly. In his memos in the early 1950s, he was in favor of ending the Cold War and restoring private property to some extent. Like most secret police chiefs (never a well liked man in any regime, even if you didn't have a sociopathic serial rapist who preyed on underage girls in the position), he had too many enemies within the regime to take power after Stalin's death and put these ideas into reality. But it is an indicator that despite being the agency that enforced official ideology, it was the least ideological agency you'd find in Moscow. They were always relatively more in touch with reality than any other part of the Soviet government as the system declined. Stalin's purges and ethnic transformation of the secret police changed it from "vanguard of the revolution" to "Ohkrana with proletarian praising slogans and amplified level of viciousness".

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Beria seemed to be quite aware that Communism couldn’t compete with the West and the USSR was best off embracing the new reality of being a neo-Muscovite imperium openly. In his memos in the early 1950s, he was in favor of ending the Cold War and restoring private property to some extent.

    If true, that is likely because, as secret police chief, he had unfiltered access to news from outside the Soviet bloc. He got to see the information before distortions – to make the Marxist-Leninist state look good by comparison – were added in.

  163. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Hail


    Is Steve Sailer on record with a prediction on the D-team nominee?
     
    I don't know that he's made a formal prediction...but he seems to think Warren will be the nominee.

    And if so, then he is correct.

    Replies: @Hail

    I don’t know that he’s made a formal prediction

    “I very seldom make election predictions.” — Steve Sailer, November 5, 2018.

    ______________

    he seems to think Warren will be the nominee

    I would like to here engage in some Sailerology by guessing what Steve’s long-run-average ‘prediction’ is based on his blogging rates by candidate name.

    iSteve blog posts with with “Harris” in title since Jan. 2019: 7, plus 5 for “Kamala” without Harris = 12. (First-ever posts on Kamala were in June 2016 [Takimag article] and Jan. 2018)

    … with “Biden” in title: 9, plus 1 for ‘Old White Joe’ = 10.

    …with “Warren” in the title: 8, of which one was Warren Buffet and one Warren Zevon, leaving 6 for Elizabeth “0.2% Amerind” Warren. Plus 1 for ‘Fauxcahontas,’ = 7.

    …with “Booker” in title: 5.

    …with “Sanders” in title: 1, plus 2 for “Bernie,” of which one is Madoff and one is Sanders), = 2. (Steve Sailer blogged much more about Bernie in 2015-2016, with about two posts per month with “Bernie” or “Sanders” in the title during the entire election season starting in May 2015; at the same rate today, he would have about 10 Bernie posts, not 2.)

    …with “Beto” in title: 2.

    …with “Buttigieg” in title: 1.

    …with “Yang” in title: 1.

    …with “Gabbard” or “Tulsi” in title: 0.

    _____________
    Total of above: 40 posts, with Harris at 30%, Biden at 25%, Warren at 17.5%, Booker at 12.5%, Sanders at 5%, Beto at 5%.

    The RCP rolling average today has Biden at 28%, Warren at 21%, Sanders at 17%, Buttigieg at 5.5%, Harris at 5.0%, Yang at 3.3%, Beto at 2.5%, and Booker, Klobuchar, Castro, Tulsi, Bennet, and Steyer at between 0.8% and 1.8% each.

    –> This method of Sailerology finds Sailer posts track the Biden and Warren polling averages very well, but far overpredict Harris and Booker and far underpredict Sanders.

  164. @R.G. Camara
    @Mr. Anon

    Well, the JFK conspiracies (about 90% of them, anyway) are just lefties covering for themselves.

    In reality, its a pretty strong case that an ardent communist ex-marine Oswald murdered the extremely anti-communist JFK because of JFK's strident anti-communist actions at the time----the Cuban missile crisis, the Berlin Airlift, the JFK Berlin speech, etc.

    But the Left freaked out over that, denied reality, and have concocted some rube goldberg-esque theories to cover that up---and blame the U.S. to boot. You'd be hardpressed to find any corporate media account mentioning Oswald's fierce communism or JFK's fierce anti-communism as the causes.

    I mean, FFS, Oswald literally defected to the USSR for a few years, and then tried to defect to Cuba. and then tried to kill an anti-communist U.S. general before turning to JFK. But practically no story about the JFK murders in the corporate media mentions those extremely relevant facts.

    Ironically, the only other logical possibilities are...brainwashing of Oswald by some government agency or foreign government. But we also have nothing to support that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    His widow has denied he was vociferous about the President. Others in the Russian emigre community in Dallas interviewed by reporters for Newsweek many years after the fact were emphatic that John Connolly was an object of considerable resentment for Oswald, as Oswald blamed him for his dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps.

  165. @Uncle Remus
    @Jack Henson

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush's CIA career began when
    he became Director has been questioned by many researchers. The whitewashing of this man and his family, both prior generations and succeeding ones, has been well-orchestrated and has gone on for decades. Now that all pretense of respect for political leaders has been abandoned, the guns need to be trained on the nefarious history of senior Bush and those that came with him.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Neoconned

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush’s CIA career began when he became Director has been questioned by many researchers

    That’s right, I don’t pay attention to Jim Marrs-style fantasy literature.

  166. @Jack Henson
    @Art Deco

    Are you arguing that CIA Director is a meaningless title then? "Only a year." As if the Bushes weren't involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    As if the Bushes weren’t involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    Again, that’s the issue of someone’s imagination, which you fancy.

    • Replies: @Jack Henson
    @Art Deco

    Ah, two posts in and you revert to caved in head form.

    Imagine believing that being CIA Director is only a figurehead.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  167. @Charles Pewitt
    @Prof. Woland


    This whole fracas was about removing Biden. Any collateral damage to Trump is a bonus.

     

    If it ain't Ben and Jerry's New York City pal Bernie Sanders as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see millions of voters go for the Green Party.

    Elizabeth Warren, as the Democrat Party presidential nominee, won't be able to keep the Green Party from getting big vote totals in important Electoral College states. Warren skepticism from millions of voters will balloon the vote totals for the Green Party.

    If Joe Biden is the Democrat Party presidential nominee, you will see the Green Party bursting at the seams with all the votes they will get.

    If the Green Party grabs the allegiance of millions of voters after it is clear who the Democrat Party presidential nominee is, you'll see the corporate propaganda apparatus give wide media coverage of a Ross Perot/Pat Buchanan/Alt-Right candidate and political party to siphon votes from Trump and the Republican Party.

    First past the post electoral systems naturally creates a two-party system, but sometimes, as in England and the USA now, situations arise where the two major parties splinter asunder and new political groupings emerge.

    Replies: @Redman, @Cato

    If the Democrats move toward Green, and away from Identity, I would be happy. Identity politics are tearing us apart, while Green politics, like the politics of war, can bring us together. I’m tired of an America where everyone hates me, the white hetero male.

  168. @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    As if the Bushes weren’t involved in clandestine shit since Prescott.

    Again, that's the issue of someone's imagination, which you fancy.

    Replies: @Jack Henson

    Ah, two posts in and you revert to caved in head form.

    Imagine believing that being CIA Director is only a figurehead.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Again, there's what I say, and there's what you fancy you've read. They aren't the same thing.

    He was in charge of the CIA for one year. He likely had very little effect on the organization in that one year, as bureaucratic organizations have considerable inertia. He had no association with it before or after. One of his predecessors (James Schlesinger) and one of his successors (Stansfield Turner) were noted (and criticized) for canning a great many people (who evidently did not have civil service protection). Bush wasn't.

    Bush was derided ca. 1988 for being a walking resume, because his life in politics had consisted of brief stints running this and that agency (without much indication that his tenure in any of them was significant in any way). He was, over a six year period, the chief of mission at the United Nations, Republican national chairman, director of the U.S. Liaison office in China, and director of the CIA. Accounts of his M.O. during the Reagan Administration (in documents like the Tower Commission report) indicated he listened at meetings but seldom offered his own opinion.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  169. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Hibernian

    He is not a clown but he had never held elective office before. He had come from a world where employees are generally loyal to the people who sign their paychecks. When Trump buys a hotel, the employees of that hotel switch their loyalty to him and don't act as spies for Hilton.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Most employees are if anything too damn loyal for their own good. Corporations do insanely stupid stuff all the time and it would be rational for employees to dime out their failing policies, especially in public corporations where theoretically there could be a shareholder revolt.

    That said I bet Trump is a good, maybe great employer and is genuinely respected by his employees.

  170. Anybody who ever watched Yesminister knows an established bureaucracy is The Enemy.

  171. @Jim Don Bob
    @Kronos

    It's Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner, but you are correct otherwise.

    Replies: @Kronos

    Thanks for pointing that out. (I was close though.)

  172. @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Bush held the job for 1 year. Nixon and Ford used Bush as a utility man in a series of positions (which he held for a mean of about 18 months). He never worked in intelligence before or after. Putin was a career spook, employed in that trade for nearly 25 years.

    Replies: @Jack Henson, @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    George H.W. Bush appears to have helped his CIA friends from Skull and Bones out in the Bay of Pigs operations by letting them use his offshore oil drilling in Mexico assets for their logistics. Whether Bush was in the CIA or just an ally is a more complicated question.

    J. Edgar Hoover once referred to Bush as being in the CIA, but it could be that Bush was just a friend of the CIA.

  173. @Anon
    Lol I love how Peter Akulyev keeps trying to come here and muddy the waters with his MSM talking points and gets BTFO every single time. I wonder why he even bothers coming here. It's not like it ends up making his side look any better.

    Replies: @Icy Blast

    This “Akulyev” guy caught my attention by being silly and incoherent. Maybe he’s just a bored prankster trying to steal some of Tiny Duck’s comedic glory.

  174. @R.G. Camara
    @Mr. Anon

    Well, the JFK conspiracies (about 90% of them, anyway) are just lefties covering for themselves.

    In reality, its a pretty strong case that an ardent communist ex-marine Oswald murdered the extremely anti-communist JFK because of JFK's strident anti-communist actions at the time----the Cuban missile crisis, the Berlin Airlift, the JFK Berlin speech, etc.

    But the Left freaked out over that, denied reality, and have concocted some rube goldberg-esque theories to cover that up---and blame the U.S. to boot. You'd be hardpressed to find any corporate media account mentioning Oswald's fierce communism or JFK's fierce anti-communism as the causes.

    I mean, FFS, Oswald literally defected to the USSR for a few years, and then tried to defect to Cuba. and then tried to kill an anti-communist U.S. general before turning to JFK. But practically no story about the JFK murders in the corporate media mentions those extremely relevant facts.

    Ironically, the only other logical possibilities are...brainwashing of Oswald by some government agency or foreign government. But we also have nothing to support that.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    It’s a tribute to the power of the media that most people think Kennedy was shot by the far right not the far left.

  175. @Kyle
    These are the consequences of living in a world where a critical mass of the population has a <95 IQ. I’m not interested enough to research the details of this alleged scandal. I vaguely recall hannity blathering about this Biden Ukraine conspiracy theory months ago. It was hilarious and unremarkable. My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?

    Replies: @Russ, @Corvinus

    “My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?”

    As Democrat doyenne Maxine Waters will explain to you, Peach Foe Tee Fie has been the plan since Trump took office, and any details behind the means to this end are meaningless.

  176. @Hugh
    The vilest thing about the Biden at theCouncil for Foreign Relations video is that after he's done with his tale of brutally ass-raping Ukraine.....the whole audience starts laughing, sniggering and giggling.

    Just despicable.

    Replies: @Russ

    The vilest thing about the Biden at theCouncil for Foreign Relations video is that after he’s done with his tale of brutally ass-raping Ukraine…..the whole audience starts laughing, sniggering and giggling.

    Mere mention of the CFR used to suffice to launch the left into a snit; now, as you note, it’s all sniggers and giggles.

  177. I find it funny that the old Soviet Union had political officers attached to various leaders and institutions (like the armed forces), and it appears that our beloved CIA also has its officers attached to our various luminaries and institutions. We are more like the Soviet Union than we are different.

    Now, who won the Cold War?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Antonio

    All of this is straight out of Moldbug.

    https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2013/09/technology-communism-and-brown-scare/

    , @Desiderius
    @Antonio

    All of this is straight out of Moldbug.

    https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2013/09/technology-communism-and-brown-scare/

    , @Desiderius
    @Antonio

    All of this is straight out of Moldbug.

    https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2013/09/technology-communism-and-brown-scare/

  178. @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Bush held the job for 1 year. Nixon and Ford used Bush as a utility man in a series of positions (which he held for a mean of about 18 months). He never worked in intelligence before or after. Putin was a career spook, employed in that trade for nearly 25 years.

    Replies: @Jack Henson, @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    Whose name graces the CIA Headquarters in Langley?

  179. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    No, moderate conservatives resent Trump for shaming their silence and inaction.

  180. @Antonio
    I find it funny that the old Soviet Union had political officers attached to various leaders and institutions (like the armed forces), and it appears that our beloved CIA also has its officers attached to our various luminaries and institutions. We are more like the Soviet Union than we are different.

    Now, who won the Cold War?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Desiderius, @Desiderius

  181. @Antonio
    I find it funny that the old Soviet Union had political officers attached to various leaders and institutions (like the armed forces), and it appears that our beloved CIA also has its officers attached to our various luminaries and institutions. We are more like the Soviet Union than we are different.

    Now, who won the Cold War?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Desiderius, @Desiderius

  182. @Antonio
    I find it funny that the old Soviet Union had political officers attached to various leaders and institutions (like the armed forces), and it appears that our beloved CIA also has its officers attached to our various luminaries and institutions. We are more like the Soviet Union than we are different.

    Now, who won the Cold War?

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Desiderius, @Desiderius

  183. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1177332841794932748

    Read the replies. The People say it is NOT okay for the NYT to out the CIA.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @donvonburg, @bomag, @Bugg, @Art Deco, @simple_pseudonymic_handle, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @jamsel

    Yeah. What we need is even more well funded propaganda arms of the deep state. The Soviets were never so clever.

  184. @Stephen Paul Foster
    @Whiskey

    "Oh yes Hillary is running."

    Well, this is what I've been thinking all along: she's waiting (maybe conniving at) for the crash-and-burn of the current bumbling crew and plans to jump in at some point as "The Savior" of the party.
    Her argument: "Hey, I actually won the 2016 election, after all, I got 3 million more votes than Doofus; this time around I'll be more careful and not let the Russians interfere, and I'll stuff the boxes in MI, PA, and WI so there will be no question. What's not to like?"

    Replies: @Neoconned

    I’ve mentioned on here off/on since early 2017 that Hillary will return “with a vengeance”…..who else will they run? Biden?
    That means a Trump landslide.

    And Bernie and Warren CANT get ANYWHERE near the White House. “They” will not allow it. Somebody on Wall Street will pay off rogue CIA types and military contractors to go and round up a Hinckley or an Oswald. 2 or 3 of the best snipers in NATO…..probably farmed out to the Brits or the Canucks or something…..they’ll pop them 60 ways from Sunday and the Oswald will take the patsy fall. Happened before could happen again.

    Theres just simply put too much money to lose with a President Sanders or Warren. Think tens of trillions lost over a decade by Wall Street due to more regulation & higher taxation and MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY Warren and Bernie will force the central bankers to use monetary policy at the executive whim of a socialist presidency and NO MATTER WHAT THAT WILL NEVER happen in the United states simply due to the “real owners” of this country standing to lose too much dough.

    Trump may be bad to some but in comparison to Warren or Sanders he’s a Reagan….

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Neoconned

    "And Bernie and Warren CANT get ANYWHERE near the White House. “They” will not allow it. Somebody on Wall Street will pay off rogue CIA types and military contractors to go and round up a Hinckley or an Oswald. 2 or 3 of the best snipers in NATO…..probably farmed out to the Brits or the Canucks or something…..they’ll pop them 60 ways from Sunday and the Oswald will take the patsy fall. Happened before could happen again."

    You should contact Vox Day and write fiction for Castalia House.

  185. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Daniel Williams

    The anti-CIA left is opposed to impeachment and thinks Trump‘s collusion with Russia is no big deal or a hoax. The left would be your Stephen Cohens, Matt Taibbis, etc. Most people who consider Trump a criminal are moderate conservatives who still naively cling to the notion that patriotism, honor and decency are not just words.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @El Dato, @Mr. Anon, @dr kill, @J.Ross, @Desiderius, @Neoconned

    I’d wager on foreign policy issues I fall in with the Matt Taibibi crowd. And I do agree, the Russiagate hoax is the biggest nothing in decades….

  186. @Uncle Remus
    @Jack Henson

    More than interesting. The supposition, held by Art Deco, that GHW Bush's CIA career began when
    he became Director has been questioned by many researchers. The whitewashing of this man and his family, both prior generations and succeeding ones, has been well-orchestrated and has gone on for decades. Now that all pretense of respect for political leaders has been abandoned, the guns need to be trained on the nefarious history of senior Bush and those that came with him.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Neoconned

    Until about a yr ago I didn’t even know there were Reagan assassination conspiracy theories…..this guy in the comments section of a YouTube video I watched brought it up.

    At first I blew the guy off but at his urging I googled old newspaper clippings from the Google newspaper archive and found old articles talking about how Hinckley socialized with 1 of H W Bush’s sons(not Dubya, Neil maybe….)…..even having dinner or lunch with him.

    Here:

    http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html#.XY8o6h5Ok0M

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley…..dunno but after reading about it I said “dunno if its truth or not BUT THATS WHY people think Bush Sr was behind Reagan and his assassination attempt…….”

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Neoconned

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley…

    What, into thinking that if he shot Ronald Reagan, Jodie Foster would sleep with him?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  187. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1177622805246091264

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @MEH 0910

    Siva Vaidhyanathan Retweeted:

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/hotairblog/status/1178105125203841026

  188. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason


    CIA officers are mostly a pretty conservative bunch, and have good health care and pensions, so who knows how they vote in their personal voting lives.
     
    The District of Columbia voted 91% Democrat and 4% Republican in 2016. Maybe the 4% consisted of CIA officers but I doubt it. The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA. Why this is true is a question for another day, but it is true and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites and hate him with a blinding rage - he is not "one of them". Even if they vote Democrat, they could tolerate a classy Republican RINO boss like McCain or Romney just as they were OK with the elder Bush (not so much with the West Texas pseudo-hick junior), but never the low class Trump with his tasteless gold furniture and trashy multiple families.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason, @dfordoom

    The old joke was that Jews live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. That is now true of our entire elite, including the CIA.

    Yep. And it’s true of the officer corps of the military and it’s largely true of the whole law enforcement apparatus. Despite the fantasies of rightists.

    Why this is true is a question for another day,

    And it’s a very very important question.

    and you are delusional if you think that more than a handful of CIA officers voted for Trump. Mostly they are like other DC elites

    The intelligence agencies exist in order to serve the elites. That’s always been the case. The nature of the elites may have changed somewhat over the years, although probably less than most people think.

  189. @Jack Henson
    @Art Deco

    Ah, two posts in and you revert to caved in head form.

    Imagine believing that being CIA Director is only a figurehead.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Again, there’s what I say, and there’s what you fancy you’ve read. They aren’t the same thing.

    He was in charge of the CIA for one year. He likely had very little effect on the organization in that one year, as bureaucratic organizations have considerable inertia. He had no association with it before or after. One of his predecessors (James Schlesinger) and one of his successors (Stansfield Turner) were noted (and criticized) for canning a great many people (who evidently did not have civil service protection). Bush wasn’t.

    Bush was derided ca. 1988 for being a walking resume, because his life in politics had consisted of brief stints running this and that agency (without much indication that his tenure in any of them was significant in any way). He was, over a six year period, the chief of mission at the United Nations, Republican national chairman, director of the U.S. Liaison office in China, and director of the CIA. Accounts of his M.O. during the Reagan Administration (in documents like the Tower Commission report) indicated he listened at meetings but seldom offered his own opinion.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Art Deco


    Bush was derided ca. 1988 for being a walking resume, because his life in politics had consisted of brief stints running this and that agency (without much indication that his tenure in any of them was significant in any way).
     
    That a career dilettante is credited with being this fiendish Machiavelli is testament to how little the average Unz commenter has looked into this stuff apart from having bought, lock, stock and barrel, the half-truths and propaganda dished out by left-wing pundits over the decades. I read this stuff decades ago when I was a rabid left-winger, and it was unconvincing to me even then.
  190. @Neoconned
    @Uncle Remus

    Until about a yr ago I didn't even know there were Reagan assassination conspiracy theories.....this guy in the comments section of a YouTube video I watched brought it up.

    At first I blew the guy off but at his urging I googled old newspaper clippings from the Google newspaper archive and found old articles talking about how Hinckley socialized with 1 of H W Bush's sons(not Dubya, Neil maybe....).....even having dinner or lunch with him.

    Here:

    http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html#.XY8o6h5Ok0M

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley.....dunno but after reading about it I said "dunno if its truth or not BUT THATS WHY people think Bush Sr was behind Reagan and his assassination attempt......."

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley…

    What, into thinking that if he shot Ronald Reagan, Jodie Foster would sleep with him?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Wasn’t Jodie known as a mussypuncher even back then? Although very discreet, more so even than Joan Jett.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  191. @Hypnotoad666
    @Daniel Williams


    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?
     
    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest's Second Law of Politics: "Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing."

    Case in point: Do you think the Dulles brother would have spent one second worrying about how global warming affects national security.* https://insideclimatenews.org/news/13022018/climate-change-conflict-disasters-worldwide-threat-assessment-intelligence-agencies-refugees

    * Aside from man-made thermonuclear warming, that is.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics: “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.”

    They haven’t really changed their outlook very much at all. To be mainstream right-wing these days means to be a worshipper of globalism and bureaucracy. And the national security crowd were always fans of bureaucracy, being a species of bureaucrat themselves.

    Conquest was wrong. Most institutions have become effectively more right-wing over time. Globalism, social justice, open borders – all right-wing ideologies. These are all ideologies supported and funded by capitalists, because they’re in the interests of capitalists. Since Conquest formulated his law the Left has in fact collapsed. Communism has disappeared.

    The national security crowd are probably overwhelmingly Democrat voters. Why wouldn’t they be? The Democrats are fully onboard with all these right-wing ideologies.

    A more accurate version of Conquest’s Second Law of Politics would be: “All organizations become progressively more corrupt and self-serving and more in tune with those who wield the real power.”

    • Disagree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @dfordoom

    To be mainstream right-wing these days means to be a worshipper of globalism and bureaucracy.

    A statement which will fool no one who actually reads what's written by starboard opinion journalists or academics. The closest that gets to being accurate would be some of the capons at the Mercatus Center.

  192. @Cagey Beast
    @Anonymous

    That's very funny. Institutions keep on hiring attack dogs that bite their new owners. Trump's favourite poem about taking a serpent into the house just keeps on getting proven right.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon

    Future new reporter orientation:

    The Times is your mother! The Times is your father!
    (I can’t hear you!)

    • LOL: Cagey Beast
  193. @dfordoom
    @Hypnotoad666


    The migration of the national security apparatus from anti-communist warriors to left-wing globalist bureaucrats certainly fits with Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics: “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.”
     
    They haven't really changed their outlook very much at all. To be mainstream right-wing these days means to be a worshipper of globalism and bureaucracy. And the national security crowd were always fans of bureaucracy, being a species of bureaucrat themselves.

    Conquest was wrong. Most institutions have become effectively more right-wing over time. Globalism, social justice, open borders - all right-wing ideologies. These are all ideologies supported and funded by capitalists, because they're in the interests of capitalists. Since Conquest formulated his law the Left has in fact collapsed. Communism has disappeared.

    The national security crowd are probably overwhelmingly Democrat voters. Why wouldn't they be? The Democrats are fully onboard with all these right-wing ideologies.

    A more accurate version of Conquest’s Second Law of Politics would be: “All organizations become progressively more corrupt and self-serving and more in tune with those who wield the real power."

    Replies: @Art Deco

    To be mainstream right-wing these days means to be a worshipper of globalism and bureaucracy.

    A statement which will fool no one who actually reads what’s written by starboard opinion journalists or academics. The closest that gets to being accurate would be some of the capons at the Mercatus Center.

  194. @anonymous
    Well, trump does appear to be crashing this plane.....

    ....WITH NO SURVIVORS!

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Well, trump does appear to be crashing this plane…WITH NO SURVIVORS!

    You gotta love Sailer – no post is too stupid to be published.

  195. @Art Deco
    @Jack Henson

    Again, there's what I say, and there's what you fancy you've read. They aren't the same thing.

    He was in charge of the CIA for one year. He likely had very little effect on the organization in that one year, as bureaucratic organizations have considerable inertia. He had no association with it before or after. One of his predecessors (James Schlesinger) and one of his successors (Stansfield Turner) were noted (and criticized) for canning a great many people (who evidently did not have civil service protection). Bush wasn't.

    Bush was derided ca. 1988 for being a walking resume, because his life in politics had consisted of brief stints running this and that agency (without much indication that his tenure in any of them was significant in any way). He was, over a six year period, the chief of mission at the United Nations, Republican national chairman, director of the U.S. Liaison office in China, and director of the CIA. Accounts of his M.O. during the Reagan Administration (in documents like the Tower Commission report) indicated he listened at meetings but seldom offered his own opinion.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Bush was derided ca. 1988 for being a walking resume, because his life in politics had consisted of brief stints running this and that agency (without much indication that his tenure in any of them was significant in any way).

    That a career dilettante is credited with being this fiendish Machiavelli is testament to how little the average Unz commenter has looked into this stuff apart from having bought, lock, stock and barrel, the half-truths and propaganda dished out by left-wing pundits over the decades. I read this stuff decades ago when I was a rabid left-winger, and it was unconvincing to me even then.

  196. https://mobile.twitter.com/climateaudit/status/1177580473566093312

    This twitter thread says that Adam Schiff got the whistle blower complaint in August but sat on it for some reason.

    Sometime in August, the CIA changed its whistle blower requirements form and removed the requirement that the knowledge of the alleged infraction be first hand. IOW, hearsay is now sufficient. The new form was published September 25th or so, just before Captain CIA Courageous went public.

    But I am assured there is no Deep State.

  197. @JudgeSmails
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Pretty difficult now since Trump has publicly admitted to it, the memo release by the WH supports the whistle blower and Giuliani is running around making things worse.
     
    Admitted to what?

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Exactly.

  198. @Daniel Williams
    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Jack Henson, @Alden, @Hypnotoad666, @R.G. Camara, @ben tillman

    Does anyone else find it odd and hokey that the agents of our unaccountable alphabet agencies are suddenly being praised like they’re the Cowboy G-Men?

    I thought lefties hated the government—I thought they were practically anarchists at heart. And what better represents the repressive side of government than an unelected secret police with shadowy quasi-military leanings?

    The CIA’s foreunner (OSS) was founded as an antifa organization. It’s always been on the Left.

  199. @MEH 0910
    @Anonymous

    Siva Vaidhyanathan Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1177748021121081344

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  200. Let’s see if this whistle blower has beech friends like Blasey-Ford had. My guess is that they are all part of the same Lawfare scum.

  201. @Art Deco
    @Neoconned

    Maybe Bushs CIA friends helped brainwash Hinckley…

    What, into thinking that if he shot Ronald Reagan, Jodie Foster would sleep with him?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Wasn’t Jodie known as a mussypuncher even back then? Although very discreet, more so even than Joan Jett.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Not that I remember. Prior to about 1989, even our highly unscrupulous media would not have published it had it been true of her. Michaelangelo Signorile and his employers made a name for themselves at the end of the decade by doing this. I think outfits like People and The National Enquirer had oblique ways of referring to it, however (e.g. publishing a story about Rock Hudson wherein he denies it, or publishing a profile of Paul Lynde where his 'personal assistant' is depicted). I seem to recall some rude bit of business about Foster where her brother dished the dirt on her, the burden of which was she wasn't exclusively lesbian until after age 30.

  202. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Wasn’t Jodie known as a mussypuncher even back then? Although very discreet, more so even than Joan Jett.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Not that I remember. Prior to about 1989, even our highly unscrupulous media would not have published it had it been true of her. Michaelangelo Signorile and his employers made a name for themselves at the end of the decade by doing this. I think outfits like People and The National Enquirer had oblique ways of referring to it, however (e.g. publishing a story about Rock Hudson wherein he denies it, or publishing a profile of Paul Lynde where his ‘personal assistant’ is depicted). I seem to recall some rude bit of business about Foster where her brother dished the dirt on her, the burden of which was she wasn’t exclusively lesbian until after age 30.

  203. “Huh … I’d assumed the whistleblower was a Karen Silkwood-type, a simple low-level American worker who’d stumbled upon Incriminating Information. Now he turns out instead to be CIA.”

    Exactly, CIA. A person who is looking out for America’s interests first.

    “I worry that this could lead to Conspiracy Theories.”

    Trying to be cagey, but I see that chink in your straight laced armor. So you have Abramson’s books, after all, but just cannot bring yourself to admit that he has been on point for the past three years.

    “Fortunately, the Editor of the New York Times assures us that CIA is “a nonpolitical agency”.

    A nonpolitical agency when required to ensure the safety of our nation. You do realize Mr. Sailer that ex-CIA who are Republican/conservative are definitively troubled by Trump’s most recent actions. Yet, you stubbornly insist on not NOTICING.

  204. @Neoconned
    @Stephen Paul Foster

    I've mentioned on here off/on since early 2017 that Hillary will return "with a vengeance".....who else will they run? Biden?
    That means a Trump landslide.

    And Bernie and Warren CANT get ANYWHERE near the White House. "They" will not allow it. Somebody on Wall Street will pay off rogue CIA types and military contractors to go and round up a Hinckley or an Oswald. 2 or 3 of the best snipers in NATO.....probably farmed out to the Brits or the Canucks or something.....they'll pop them 60 ways from Sunday and the Oswald will take the patsy fall. Happened before could happen again.

    Theres just simply put too much money to lose with a President Sanders or Warren. Think tens of trillions lost over a decade by Wall Street due to more regulation & higher taxation and MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY Warren and Bernie will force the central bankers to use monetary policy at the executive whim of a socialist presidency and NO MATTER WHAT THAT WILL NEVER happen in the United states simply due to the "real owners" of this country standing to lose too much dough.

    Trump may be bad to some but in comparison to Warren or Sanders he's a Reagan....

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “And Bernie and Warren CANT get ANYWHERE near the White House. “They” will not allow it. Somebody on Wall Street will pay off rogue CIA types and military contractors to go and round up a Hinckley or an Oswald. 2 or 3 of the best snipers in NATO…..probably farmed out to the Brits or the Canucks or something…..they’ll pop them 60 ways from Sunday and the Oswald will take the patsy fall. Happened before could happen again.”

    You should contact Vox Day and write fiction for Castalia House.

  205. @Harry Baldwin
    @Jack Henson

    My niece's husband works for an intelligence agency, the NGA. He's fanatically anti-Trump. I met another guy recently whose brother works for the FBI. He told me that his brother wears a t-shirt at the gym that says "Proud Agent of the Deep State." These people have picked a side and are confident they'll win.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Corvinus

    “These people have picked a side and are confident they’ll win.”

    Indeed. They protect America.

  206. @Kyle
    These are the consequences of living in a world where a critical mass of the population has a <95 IQ. I’m not interested enough to research the details of this alleged scandal. I vaguely recall hannity blathering about this Biden Ukraine conspiracy theory months ago. It was hilarious and unremarkable. My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?

    Replies: @Russ, @Corvinus

    “My question now is what does that have to do with trump, and why is he being impeached?”

    Simple.

    Trump is told by DHS the Ukraine conspiracy theory he’s pushing is false; Ukraine asks for military aid; Trump says he needs a favor because the US-Ukraine relationship isn’t reciprocal; Trump’s ask aims to get what he knows would be false information. He then proceeds to have his toadies ask for additional information from leaders from Italy and Australia. Furthermore, Trump has “deliberately chosen to put the life and security of this whistleblower at risk” by trying to find out the whistleblower’s identity, which “under the law, whistleblowers are protected … and the President has violated that law.”

    You do realize that the two Ukrainians named in the whistleblower report that touched off an impeachment inquiry stated that Guiliani–Trump’s private attorney–pushed for an investigation into Trump’s political rivals’ dealings in the country, right?

    You do realize that two corrupt Ukrainian prosecutors repeatedly dropped cases connected to Paul Manafort’s old pro-Kremlin boss, Viktor Yanukovych, at the behest of Trump, right?

    You do realize the former Ukrainian prosecutor at the heart of the Trump whistleblower scandal states he saw no evidence of criminality by Hunter Biden, right?

    You do realize that Attorney General Barr held private meetings overseas with foreign intel officials seeking their help in a DOJ inquiry…to discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of Russian interference in the 2016 election, right?

    The Obama rule applies here. Had Obama engaged in the EXACT behavior in this SPECIFIC event, Republicans would be calling for impeachment.

    But I am certain that Mr. Sailer will take NOTICE of these facts at some point in time.

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