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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

Ships of State
by Steve Sailer

May 29, 2019

The RMS Titanic was notoriously marketed as “unsinkable” because it featured sixteen internal watertight compartments. If its hull sprang a leak at any one spot, doors would automatically shut and contain the water. If no more than two, or in some cases four, compartments flooded, the Titanic would stay afloat.

Unfortunately, by sideswiping an iceberg, the Titanic compromised its hull, perhaps in part due to poor-quality rivets. The long gashes and separation of the plates exposed a fatal five compartments to the sea. Moreover, the internal bulkheads didn’t extend all the way up to the deck and therefore weren’t as watertight as advertised, allowing water to slosh throughout. The Titanic therefore sank rapidly, before help could arrive.

But that doesn’t mean separate compartments within the hull were a bad idea. They remain a shipbuilding standard today.

Thinking about the fundamental trade-offs of ship architecture offers an unsettling insight into the design dangers in both the European Union and United States of America.

These two ships of state lack watertight internal compartments, which increases the need for strong external borders to prevent flooding from abroad. In a century in which would-be migrants from the Global South will increase vastly in number, we need to draw analogies from the maritime disasters of the past to have a chance of avoiding a similar fate.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. That was a really good one.

    I don’t know what the deal is with getting an opinion piece in, god forbid, the New York Times, but maybe it’s worth taking a shot from time to time when you’re particularly inspired. Who knows?

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anon

    The NYT would never print Steve. They stopped printing Razib when they learned he had similar views.

    If Steve wanted to do op eds again, he knows the best way to get started: send them unsolicited to 100+ smaller newspapers. Most of them are not as censorious as the NYT on HBD issues.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  2. But the normally bossy E.U. delegated border defense of the continent to individual member states, not seeing it as a collective responsibility. Of course, the poorer states, such as Greece, didn’t have much short-term incentive (or means) to turn back migrants arriving by sea since the newcomers hardly wanted to stay in Greece, with its flat-broke welfare state.

    Actually there is an EU-level border security force, Frontex, though it currently only guards the Schengen Area, with Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia not part of Schengen as yet so it is chiefly deployed to Hungary, Greece, Italy and Spain.
    https://frontex.europa.eu/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Border_and_Coast_Guard_Agency

    Frontex was established in 2005 as the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders, and primarily responsible for coordinating border control efforts. In response to the European migrant crisis of 2015–2016, the European Commission proposed on 15 December 2015, to extend Frontex’s mandate and to transform it into a fully-fledged European Border and Coast Guard Agency. On 18 December 2015, the European Council roundly supported the proposal, and after a vote by the European Parliament, the European Border and Coast Guard was officially launched on 6 October 2016 at the Bulgarian external border with Turkey.

    To enable the agency to carry out its tasks, its budget would be gradually increased from the €143 million originally planned for 2015 up to €238 million in 2016, €281 million in 2017, and will reach €322 million (about US$350 million) in 2020. The staff of the agency would gradually increase from 402 members in 2016 to 1,000 by 2020.

    • Replies: @peterike
    @Altai


    To enable the agency to carry out its tasks, its budget would be gradually increased from the €143 million originally planned for 2015 up to €238 million in 2016, €281 million in 2017, and will reach €322 million (about US$350 million) in 2020. The staff of the agency would gradually increase from 402 members in 2016 to 1,000 by 2020.

     

    So they started with €143 million and could only employ 402 people? That's like €355,000 per person. Nice gig. And how many migrants did they stop with that? My guess is the number approaches zero.

    Here's a better approach. Five dudes on the shoreline with .50 caliber machine gun batteries and shoot to kill orders. Number of migrants stopped: 100%. Lots cheaper too.
  3. I’m afraid California’s neighbors aren’t going to defend their borders…..

  4. A E.U. funded borer patrol exists but it is way too weak. And there is a raging debate in the E.U.: Whether it really wants its borders protected. – This situation will linger on for years to come.

    What is not (yet?) widely accepted or understood are two things:

    a) The Robert-Putnam-insight, that diversity can be threatening or even destructive

    b) The blank slaters idea, that everybody can be – a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    (If you’d want to, you could add the famous Gumball-Video by Mr. Beck to the mix).

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Dieter Kief

    It only takes one EU member state to issue passports willy nilly, like Malta selling passports, Sweden's open borders or Spain giving passports to any Jew who asks, or Merkel's boner and every EU state has open borders. The weakest determines the fate of the whole.

    The latest theory is there was a coal fire on the Titanic which fatally weakened the Hull just where the iceberg struck.

    https://medium.com/s/story/the-titanic-was-on-fire-for-days-before-the-iceberg-hit-94fa26471dfa

    , @Altai
    @Dieter Kief

    What I find strange is that outside Britain there is no understanding that mass migration from Eastern and later after the economy had been terra-formed into a low-wage immigrant one with the ECB deciding to effectively write-off the Southern economies, Southern Europe was already the reason for Brexit and what may be the beginning of the existential crisis for the EU and third-way neoliberalism. The borders were already expanded too far to include too much cheap labour. (And the EMU was already a guaranteed disaster when Germany and Italy were put into a currency union)

    Over the last 15 years EU migration has been far greater and far more deleterious for living conditions and sense of community for the working classes who left Labour to wither away and voted to leave the EU who might otherwise have voted remain or not voted at all, they were the key new factor. Asylum seeker class people live mostly off the public purse and don't have much to offer in labour competition. Their impact is mostly spatial, but EU migrants displace spatially and economically and are far more numerous to boot.

    The rest of the EU doesn't get it because the amount of inter-EU migration is negligible in comparison. Poland destroyed the EU by exporting so many people to the UK, not by making a ruckus over Merkel's Million Man March.

    The fatal concern for the EU right now is what the consequence of any roll back of integration will be, all this has so far been powered by the overwhelming force of TINA (There is no alternative) and a sense of manifest-destiny. I don't think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    , @Logan
    @Dieter Kief

    everybody can be – a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    For those who really think this, I suggest tuning in to Jeopardy tonight.

    James is up to something like 25 wins and over $2M. He holds, I think, the top 12 records for one-day winnings.

    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that? Despite 50+ years and tens of thousands of contestants for some reason being unable to do so?

    It seems entirely obvious to me, and I suspect most people, that James was born with immense talent useful for this very specific purpose, and then spent a great deal of time acquiring the knowledge necessary to make that talent work.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @bomag

  5. Ship hulls and water are inanimate. The problem is how you use state violence to enforce the US border. At the current time, there is no desire to use force to stop people from crossing the border or even deport them.

    At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like. This is the cleaned up version, I can’t find the raw video anymore.

    Egyptian Guards Shoot Palestinian Trying To Leave Gaza

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith’s invisible hand.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @George


    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by... Adam Smith’s invisible hand.
     
    America: goosed by the Invisible Hand.


    or, for Steve's readers in Japan...

    Open borders: enforced by Adam Smith's Invisible Kancho!

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Corvinus
    @George

    "At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like."

    I can do you one better.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/zvRhU1X9pZI2

    Rumor has it that Syrian Shirley Temple, Shumaila Tamer, was coerced by her slavers to sing the Alt Right version of “The Good Ship Lollipop” in broken English for some Rooh Afza. Here is the first verse.

    “I’ve been thrown in the water, really cold it feels
    I will make some noise with real live shrieks and squeals
    Didn’t think I would drown, it’s not neat to sink
    And when I do, how great a trip on this rink a dink-dink”

    “On the Bad Ship, No Bread Crumbs
    It’s a rough trip on the Mare Nostrum
    No boom-boom guns?
    Just sink the damn ships, you Italians”

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @George

    Libertarian idiocy. If the borders were governed by market forces, the category of immigrant would disappear. There would only be owners and tenants. Trespassers would be shot or die in the desert or on the high seas. There would be no Title VII, no due process, no public roads, and no helpful bilingual ICE agents to ask if you need insulin or have a heart condition or if you were sold to the guy calling himself your father.

    Remove the State, and the People will draw their own borders PDQ. When the State stops enforcing the borders I should be free to stop paying the taxes.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @George


    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith’s invisible hand.
     
    His invisible hand predated the welfare state. Without that, many, perhaps most, immigrants would fail, and return home.

    That's what happened in the 19th century.
  6. The Ship of State metaphor, which far as I know is borrowed from Plato, is usually about who or what makes the best navigator. Democracy is the Ship of Fools; the best captain is the Philosopher King, etc. Naval architecture is taken for granted. Generic Abstract Ship #1 will do.

    Not taking design for granted is an interesting twist. Forget the captain, who could be a saint or a madman (or both). Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant? At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a ‘berg, the “unsinkable” craft remains as advertised.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @guest


    Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant?
     
    Aren't you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative to existing governmental configurations?

    At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a ‘berg, the “unsinkable” craft remains as advertised.
     
    If you sink one of the fifty states, the other forty-nine survive, no?

    It didn't work the last time, but what if we propose a new twist? What if we posit a two-state solution? One red, the other blue?

    Good for us, but bad for Steve Sailer.

    Replies: @guest, @Anon87

    , @donut
    @guest

    Don't we already have a state where the capt. is irrelevant ?

    Replies: @Old Prude

  7. @Dieter Kief
    A E.U. funded borer patrol exists but it is way too weak. And there is a raging debate in the E.U.: Whether it really wants its borders protected. - This situation will linger on for years to come.

    What is not (yet?) widely accepted or understood are two things:

    a) The Robert-Putnam-insight, that diversity can be threatening or even destructive

    b) The blank slaters idea, that everybody can be - a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    (If you'd want to, you could add the famous Gumball-Video by Mr. Beck to the mix).

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Altai, @Logan

    It only takes one EU member state to issue passports willy nilly, like Malta selling passports, Sweden’s open borders or Spain giving passports to any Jew who asks, or Merkel’s boner and every EU state has open borders. The weakest determines the fate of the whole.

    The latest theory is there was a coal fire on the Titanic which fatally weakened the Hull just where the iceberg struck.

    https://medium.com/s/story/the-titanic-was-on-fire-for-days-before-the-iceberg-hit-94fa26471dfa

    • Agree: GermanReader2
  8. • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAaPFFgCVwU

    Replies: @duncsbaby

  9. Good essay.

    But the best designed ship depends on maintenance; the best designed regulations require enforcement. Considering that politics comes down to giving things away to your political supporters, modern politicians are all too happy to trash the immigration regulations for temporary political support from the newcomers.

  10. @Dieter Kief
    A E.U. funded borer patrol exists but it is way too weak. And there is a raging debate in the E.U.: Whether it really wants its borders protected. - This situation will linger on for years to come.

    What is not (yet?) widely accepted or understood are two things:

    a) The Robert-Putnam-insight, that diversity can be threatening or even destructive

    b) The blank slaters idea, that everybody can be - a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    (If you'd want to, you could add the famous Gumball-Video by Mr. Beck to the mix).

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Altai, @Logan

    What I find strange is that outside Britain there is no understanding that mass migration from Eastern and later after the economy had been terra-formed into a low-wage immigrant one with the ECB deciding to effectively write-off the Southern economies, Southern Europe was already the reason for Brexit and what may be the beginning of the existential crisis for the EU and third-way neoliberalism. The borders were already expanded too far to include too much cheap labour. (And the EMU was already a guaranteed disaster when Germany and Italy were put into a currency union)

    Over the last 15 years EU migration has been far greater and far more deleterious for living conditions and sense of community for the working classes who left Labour to wither away and voted to leave the EU who might otherwise have voted remain or not voted at all, they were the key new factor. Asylum seeker class people live mostly off the public purse and don’t have much to offer in labour competition. Their impact is mostly spatial, but EU migrants displace spatially and economically and are far more numerous to boot.

    The rest of the EU doesn’t get it because the amount of inter-EU migration is negligible in comparison. Poland destroyed the EU by exporting so many people to the UK, not by making a ruckus over Merkel’s Million Man March.

    The fatal concern for the EU right now is what the consequence of any roll back of integration will be, all this has so far been powered by the overwhelming force of TINA (There is no alternative) and a sense of manifest-destiny. I don’t think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Altai


    I don’t think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.
     
    I'm a firm believer in the right understanding of what's going on. Some people get it - Guillaume Durocher over at unz gets what's going on.
    A big advantage of the E.u. is that it is so divided - thus the biggest mistakes are always counteracted by opponents such as Orban or the people in GB or Kurz in Austria or - - - the Swiss even, who cooperate, but make their own thing - right in front of our noses, which is quite impressive.

    The E.U. will continue to muddle through. - The man who understood the E. U: best from all I know is German intellectual Hans Magnus Enzensberger. He - in 2011! - published an 80 p. (lucid) essay and his main thesis is hidden in the final chapter (a fictional dialogue): The E. U. has to be downsized! - I think Enzensberger is still - and even more so than before - quite right.

    Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Brussels, the Gentle Monster: or the Disenfranchisement of Europe, 2011

    In French

    Le Doux Monstre de Bruxelles ou L’Europe sous tutelle, traduit par Bernard Lortholary, Paris, Gallimard, 2011 (ISBN 978-2-07-013499-1)

    Replies: @Anonymous

  11. Anonymous[203] • Disclaimer says:

    No so much San Francisco ‘dumping its migrants on the rest of America’.

    More like migrants taking dumps on the Streets of San Francisco.

    • LOL: Lockean Proviso
  12. Boston Whaler used to do demonstrations of their foam-core hulls where the demonstrator would cut the vessel in half crosswise, which would show that both halves would still float earning the brand the moniker “unsinkable.”

    I don’t believe that a Boston Whaler has ever encountered an iceberg, however.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Flotation has been understood since the time of Archimedes - if the weight of the water displaced by an object is less than the weight of the object, the object will float. Ships are a combination of steel (heavy) and air (light) which average out to a density that is less than that of water, but if you replace the air with water then steel + water is heavier than just water and the ship sinks. However, if you fill part of a boat up with foam (which is mostly trapped bubbles of air) then it becomes impossible for water to displace the air inside that part of the boat and if there is enough foam the boat becomes unsinkable even if you fill the remaining part with water. Unfortunately for the passengers on the Titanic, Styrofoam had not yet been invented in 1912 and even if it had, you would have needed to fill most of the ship with it to make it unsinkable - even today ocean liners don't use this technology. Rather, they have addressed the weaknesses in the Titanic's design - the watertight compartments extend to the deck and most importantly, ships now carry adequate lifeboats to evacuate all the passengers.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

  13. Anonymous[203] • Disclaimer says:

    The *REAL* point, which must be understood to gauge the situation, is the realisation that the Economist run Deep State which runs the West – forget the political puppet show as an irrelevant sound and fury joke – is working tirelessly and ceaselessly to abolish all immigration restrictions whatsoever in the west. And of course, The Economist *always* gets its way.

    The further, unavoidable and inevitable realisation is that, to put it bluntly, The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    The further, unavoidable and inevitable realisation is that, to put it bluntly, The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.
     
    Rubbish. I'm quite sure they don't want rich white people to vanish. They are after all mostly rich white people themselves.

    They don't care what happens to poor white people, but then rich people never did care about poor people. Rich white people do not consider poor white people to be members of the same species.

    And they don't support Open Borders on ideological grounds. They support Open Borders because those rich white people believe that Open Borders will make rich white people even richer and more powerful.

    The most dangerous enemies of our civilisation are those rich white people.
    , @Lockean Proviso
    @Anonymous

    "The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish."

    Maybe just the ones who don't subscribe to The Economist and buy £10,000 watches or villas in Tuscany.

  14. @Dieter Kief
    A E.U. funded borer patrol exists but it is way too weak. And there is a raging debate in the E.U.: Whether it really wants its borders protected. - This situation will linger on for years to come.

    What is not (yet?) widely accepted or understood are two things:

    a) The Robert-Putnam-insight, that diversity can be threatening or even destructive

    b) The blank slaters idea, that everybody can be - a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    (If you'd want to, you could add the famous Gumball-Video by Mr. Beck to the mix).

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Altai, @Logan

    everybody can be – a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    For those who really think this, I suggest tuning in to Jeopardy tonight.

    James is up to something like 25 wins and over $2M. He holds, I think, the top 12 records for one-day winnings.

    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that? Despite 50+ years and tens of thousands of contestants for some reason being unable to do so?

    It seems entirely obvious to me, and I suspect most people, that James was born with immense talent useful for this very specific purpose, and then spent a great deal of time acquiring the knowledge necessary to make that talent work.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Logan

    I know and talk to lots (!) of people here who talk like that. If confronted with your James example, the usual reaction would be something like: Ok, but Jeopardy-James is an exception. - The thinking here is very flexible and usually has no problem giving in - as long as the basic blank-slatism is not touched. I've seen - really good minded and helpful people failing to help immigrants to learn something useful - at times two or three times in a row after 2015.

    But they still find reasons, what the obstacles were. The last resort is often times: He (or she) is traumatized. What's incredibly bad is, that the experiences in the US, for example, are not being told. - And if told, not really accepted. The usual explanation for the relative underperformance of US blacks here in Germany is - racism - or unconscious biases (caused by racism...).

    (There is hardly any German journalist in the US, who has at least a bit of insight. They all read (and firmly believe in ) the NYT... (and that's it)). And the field of professional pedagogy in the West is in complete agony - a (black, sigh) miracle of sorts!

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @bomag
    @Logan


    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that?
     
    Well, Steve's always stated that things are about 50-50 in the nature/nurture dichotomy.

    Over time, things tend to get hacked. I believe one statement of this in economics is "perfecting the market."
  15. Hell of a column, Steve. As much as I support the South, in a historic sense, I can’t argue with your condemnation of the South Carolinian politicians in wanting to have it both ways. It’s simple – they were wrong to want to enforce those “property” rights far across state lines, but right in their later view that they had every right to bail out of a Union that was not working for them.

    As far as the Constitutional wording on naturalization, I agree too, and I don’t say this much, that it was a bad idea. Keep in mind that the various State were indeed very independent entities in those early years. It would take a while for the realization that, yeah, we’d better agree on a common railway track gauge, and later, yeah, we need the interstate highways to have the same rules and signage and let people drive here using other states’ licenses. However, I think this can still be accomplished very well with State Compacts, as agreed on by Governors and Legislatures.

    The border control, at this point, should not even be thought of as “naturalization”. The people coming are completely in violation of all Federal law at this point, and it’s an invasion, plain and simple. This should be the purview of the President as Commander-in-Chief, if we had one with any brains and guts at all.

  16. Off- topic: Amy Harmon reports on the state of nonbinary identity:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/nonbinary-drivers-licenses.html

    World War NB is a strong candidate to follow up World War T.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @benjaminl

    The Jew York Times is always fighting the good fight for the most important issues of our times!

    Meanwhile:

    ‘London isn’t an English city anymore’: John Cleese hot take sparks Twitter firestorm


    David Aaronovitch, a columnist with the Times, sought to give Cleese a brief history and geography lesson: “London has long been a British city, John. Which you might expect, what with it being the capital.”
     
    Still, despite all the British-ness, the cries of "THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS SO INCREASING" are getting more and more high-pitched.

    Invades the World, Invites the World, Won't Notice:

    Aaronovitch is the son of communist intellectual and economist Sam Aaronovitch, and brother of actor Owen Aaronovitch, and author and screenwriter Ben Aaronovitch. His parents were atheists whose "faith was Marxism", according to Aaronovitch, and he is ethnically half Jewish and half Irish. He has written that he was brought up "to react to wealth with a puritanical pout". ... Aaronovitch also hosted the BBC series The Blair Years (2007), which examined the prime ministership of Tony Blair. The choice of Aaronovitch to interview Blair was criticised by the Daily Mail's Peter Oborne, who asserted in July 2007 that "over the past ten years Aaronovitch has never... ceased to extend a helping hand to Tony Blair... Whatever his merits as a journalist, Aaronovitch cannot be regarded as an independent figure who could be trusted to interrogate a former prime minister on behalf of the British public.
     
    , @guest
    @benjaminl

    Isn't that the same world war?

  17. you are wrong, steve…the constitution stripped the white prole majority of their ability to control the govt, which was the problem for the elites under the articles of confederation…the check and balances and separation of powers and enlarged voting districts allowed the elites to use “geographic diversity” to destroy voter unity…the EU was designed along the same lines as america–create a higher layer of govt with larger voting districts and more checks and balances and separation of powers…the articles of confederation kept power more local…meaning that local politicians had the power, and they were more accountable because the local voters were more united…diversity divides, whether is is racial or geographic or gender…

    the constitution is why the elites were able to shove the civil rights movement and mass immigration down the throats of the white prole majority…the constitution that conservative white males worship is the tool of the elites to destroy white male proles…

    anyway, dr holton explains this in great detail in his book, unruly americans, and the gist of his argument can be found on page 43 of the phi kappa phi summer 2006 forum –just google “an excess of democracy or a shortage “” the crisis that led to the constitution” and woody holton

  18. Nothing about lifeboats until the last paragraph. And nothing about maritime rodent desertion. Good job.

    For example, the slave states generally ran Washington before the Civil War…

    They knew their days were numbered. Alexandria County retroceded to Virginia in 1847.

    • Replies: @bored identity
    @Reg Cæsar

    Someone here proposed 18 years of citizenship period as a requirement to vote.

    That alone could prolong Titanic Philharmonic performance for quite a while.

    At this pount, the SCOTUS Conductors still have a chance to stick their batons in the hull's pinholes.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Reg Cæsar

    Fucking Masons.

    , @Anon
    @Reg Cæsar

    Nothing good will come of a swamp.

  19. Anon[483] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Mackenzie Bezos signed the Gates/Buffett pledge.

    Selfish Jeff just throws his money away on cool projects and companies that create jobs.

    My prediction: MacKenzie will follow the well trod philanthropy path whose goal is:

    Fix black people.

    FBP has two pillars:

    1. Fix Africa or shit that mostly happens in Africa.

    2. Close the achievement gap.

    These two can absorb all the money that will ever exist in the world.

    Professional nonprofit folks will make six figures per year in perpetuity.

  20. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2nCugGQZO0

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://youtu.be/ZHh0V7UjVXI

  21. But of course San Francisco doesn’t actually want its illegal immigrants to settle down and spend the rest of their lives in San Francisco. When they are worn-out or just sick of hot-bunking, it wants to dump them on the rest of the country. The same costly rules that discourage Americans from moving to San Francisco encourage immigrants to leave.

    Two can play the costly rules game.

    We already have a workable compartmentalization when it comes to voting qualifications. Even better, those are defined not by legal residence, but by citizenship. The states can require residents to be citizens to vote, and every state has since 1926, when Arkansas was the last to allow non-citizens to vote.

    Now apply the same logic to wages and benefits. States already set minimum hourly wages at levels above the federal one. Simply set a higher one for those not eligible to vote. (Underage and felon citizens excepted.)

    As a cherry on the sundae, include in the minimum wage full health insurance– for the worker and all his dependents.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Reg Cæsar

    We already have this system in place, which is the reason the tech firms all want more H1B visas. Currently 900,000 Asians are working in the United states on h1b visas, and they work for less than American citizens which is the main reason businesses lobby for more H1b visas.
    The number of total H-1B visa applications filed by employers on behalf of foreign workers increased from 246,126 in fiscal 2009 to 399,349 in 2016, and is on pace to reach a new high in 2017. Overall, U.S. employers filed more than 3.4 million H-1B visa applications from fiscal 2007 through the end of June 2017

    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts. A better plan would be to eliminate the h1B visas program instead of encouraging firms to hire more cheap foreign labor.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    It would appear you aren’t a huge fan of privatizing the profits while socializing the costs.

  22. @Reg Cæsar

    But of course San Francisco doesn’t actually want its illegal immigrants to settle down and spend the rest of their lives in San Francisco. When they are worn-out or just sick of hot-bunking, it wants to dump them on the rest of the country. The same costly rules that discourage Americans from moving to San Francisco encourage immigrants to leave.
     
    Two can play the costly rules game.

    We already have a workable compartmentalization when it comes to voting qualifications. Even better, those are defined not by legal residence, but by citizenship. The states can require residents to be citizens to vote, and every state has since 1926, when Arkansas was the last to allow non-citizens to vote.

    Now apply the same logic to wages and benefits. States already set minimum hourly wages at levels above the federal one. Simply set a higher one for those not eligible to vote. (Underage and felon citizens excepted.)

    As a cherry on the sundae, include in the minimum wage full health insurance-- for the worker and all his dependents.

    Replies: @Travis, @Paleo Liberal

    We already have this system in place, which is the reason the tech firms all want more H1B visas. Currently 900,000 Asians are working in the United states on h1b visas, and they work for less than American citizens which is the main reason businesses lobby for more H1b visas.
    The number of total H-1B visa applications filed by employers on behalf of foreign workers increased from 246,126 in fiscal 2009 to 399,349 in 2016, and is on pace to reach a new high in 2017. Overall, U.S. employers filed more than 3.4 million H-1B visa applications from fiscal 2007 through the end of June 2017

    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts. A better plan would be to eliminate the h1B visas program instead of encouraging firms to hire more cheap foreign labor.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Travis


    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts.
     
    You completely missed my point. I proposed a higher minimum wage for non-citizens.

    $50/hr would be a good start.

    It's only "racist (and "sexist") if minimum wages are inherently so. Because minimums were originally originally enacted to keep out black and female competition.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Travis

  23. unfortunately mass migration cannot be stopped here in the United States. the courts have stopped Trump from ending DACA and the courts are one reason the borders accept all families at the border. Even after the American people elected president primarily due to his promise to build a wall, his own party stopped him from allocating funds for the wall.

    Wealthy areas can continue to areas can continue to build “walls” around their communities, keeping the infiltrators out of their schools and communities. But the rest of America will need to learn how to deal with increased diversity or move to Vermont, Maine , West Virginia or New Hampshire to escape it.

  24. OT — Très bien, France! Can’t spook le-Duc. The spire rises!

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    This was the correct decision by the French Senate. It's too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  25. @benjaminl
    Off- topic: Amy Harmon reports on the state of nonbinary identity:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/nonbinary-drivers-licenses.html

    World War NB is a strong candidate to follow up World War T.

    Replies: @El Dato, @guest

    The Jew York Times is always fighting the good fight for the most important issues of our times!

    Meanwhile:

    ‘London isn’t an English city anymore’: John Cleese hot take sparks Twitter firestorm

    David Aaronovitch, a columnist with the Times, sought to give Cleese a brief history and geography lesson: “London has long been a British city, John. Which you might expect, what with it being the capital.”

    Still, despite all the British-ness, the cries of “THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS SO INCREASING” are getting more and more high-pitched.

    Invades the World, Invites the World, Won’t Notice:

    Aaronovitch is the son of communist intellectual and economist Sam Aaronovitch, and brother of actor Owen Aaronovitch, and author and screenwriter Ben Aaronovitch. His parents were atheists whose “faith was Marxism”, according to Aaronovitch, and he is ethnically half Jewish and half Irish. He has written that he was brought up “to react to wealth with a puritanical pout”. … Aaronovitch also hosted the BBC series The Blair Years (2007), which examined the prime ministership of Tony Blair. The choice of Aaronovitch to interview Blair was criticised by the Daily Mail’s Peter Oborne, who asserted in July 2007 that “over the past ten years Aaronovitch has never… ceased to extend a helping hand to Tony Blair… Whatever his merits as a journalist, Aaronovitch cannot be regarded as an independent figure who could be trusted to interrogate a former prime minister on behalf of the British public.

  26. @Alec Leamas
    Boston Whaler used to do demonstrations of their foam-core hulls where the demonstrator would cut the vessel in half crosswise, which would show that both halves would still float earning the brand the moniker "unsinkable."

    I don't believe that a Boston Whaler has ever encountered an iceberg, however.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Flotation has been understood since the time of Archimedes – if the weight of the water displaced by an object is less than the weight of the object, the object will float. Ships are a combination of steel (heavy) and air (light) which average out to a density that is less than that of water, but if you replace the air with water then steel + water is heavier than just water and the ship sinks. However, if you fill part of a boat up with foam (which is mostly trapped bubbles of air) then it becomes impossible for water to displace the air inside that part of the boat and if there is enough foam the boat becomes unsinkable even if you fill the remaining part with water. Unfortunately for the passengers on the Titanic, Styrofoam had not yet been invented in 1912 and even if it had, you would have needed to fill most of the ship with it to make it unsinkable – even today ocean liners don’t use this technology. Rather, they have addressed the weaknesses in the Titanic’s design – the watertight compartments extend to the deck and most importantly, ships now carry adequate lifeboats to evacuate all the passengers.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    Shouldn't we have the technology now to have an emergency response foam spraying system, like a fire extinguishing system?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Just guessing, as I don't know him personally, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Leamas, both at home and at work, understands the concept of buoyancy. I'm not a maritime guy, though I've sailed before. The foam that's the inside layer of that Boston Whaler hull structure is polyurethane, not styrofoam, as on a dock or in a pontoon.

    You are right on the point of having volume that can't be filled with water, Jack. However, the foam can also be a structural part of a hull too, (as the webbing of the "plate", with the two thin pieces of fiberglass being the flanges.) It can make for a stronger structure, and even with a compromise of both layers of fiberglass in various places, the remains of the boat can float - so you're gonna get wet, but you've got something to keep you from being submersed in cold water (or any is just as bad if you can't swim until the Carpathia, or Coast Guard, comes).

    I imagine the architects of the big ships want all the volume they can get, hence the reason for no filler.

    The lack of adequate lifeboat room was the biggest mistake made with the Titanic, as you wrote. I'm guessing every single passenger who was old enough to have read about the Titanic took the lifeboat drills seriously ever since 1912, during those many years of Atlantic Ocean passages. When you take a 2-man rubber raft with a 5-gallon gas can and 2.2 Mercury across the Pacific from the big LA Marina (del Rey) to Avalon, you really get how big the water is!

    Replies: @David

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alec Leamas

  27. Anon[483] • Disclaimer says:

    Sanctuary cities are such a silly distraction.

    Target the 11 million non-criminal (other than their illegal presence) with eVerify, and block them from access to financial accounts and the use of any remittance services, along with other assorted harassment of them and their citizen abetters, at the federal level. Offer carrots in the form of graduated bribes to get the hell out and stay out, as Canada has sometimes done. The only illegals left for sanctuary cities will then be criminal riff-raff, and local voters will soon tire of them.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Trump has said (per Derb, who included an audio clip) that eVerify is too hard. If he still has rallies, people at his rallies should hold up "eVerify" on signs (the best would be to cross out "Trump" and write "eVerify" underneath, emphasizing it as an alternative).

  28. @Reg Cæsar
    Nothing about lifeboats until the last paragraph. And nothing about maritime rodent desertion. Good job.

    For example, the slave states generally ran Washington before the Civil War...
     
    They knew their days were numbered. Alexandria County retroceded to Virginia in 1847.


    https://steemitimages.com/DQmPdLJi7YkAjumam573zGmXv17KUuzr1hRALRj85YcYxyy/dcboundarystones2.png

    Replies: @bored identity, @R.G. Camara, @Anon

    Someone here proposed 18 years of citizenship period as a requirement to vote.

    That alone could prolong Titanic Philharmonic performance for quite a while.

    At this pount, the SCOTUS Conductors still have a chance to stick their batons in the hull’s pinholes.

  29. I think it was in my copy of Landmark Arrian: The Campaigns of Alexander where the author characterizes civilizations as either Persian style or Greek style. The Persian style has a tough outer shell, but once you crack that it has a soft nougatty center that’s easy to smash. The Greek style is one long fight for every scrap of useless land, but the fights aren’t that hard because they don’t help each other.

    Lincoln had Andrew Jackson as a precedent:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Bill

    • Replies: @Anon
    @KunioKun

    This distinction was made by Machiavelli in The Prince, between states are easy to invade but difficult to rule, and states that are difficult to invade but easy to rule.

    Modern examples of the former would be Iraq and Afghanistan, and of the latter, Germany and Japan.

  30. But then in 1860, the Democrats self-destructed and Republican Abraham Lincoln was elected with only 40 percent of the vote. Immediately, the Fire-Eaters of South Carolina rediscovered the sacred principle of states’ rights and launched the Confederacy.

    Not quite accurate. The principle of states’ rights had featured prominently in the Nullification Controversy of the 1830s, which, incidentally, also involved S. Carolina.

  31. @Reg Cæsar
    Nothing about lifeboats until the last paragraph. And nothing about maritime rodent desertion. Good job.

    For example, the slave states generally ran Washington before the Civil War...
     
    They knew their days were numbered. Alexandria County retroceded to Virginia in 1847.


    https://steemitimages.com/DQmPdLJi7YkAjumam573zGmXv17KUuzr1hRALRj85YcYxyy/dcboundarystones2.png

    Replies: @bored identity, @R.G. Camara, @Anon

    Fucking Masons.

  32. If Americans wanted to end the current migration of migrants across our borders we could easily stop it. The reason it continues is due to our elected senators want the current system in place. While congress passed laws to force ships to comply with safety rules, our congress refuses to fund the wall , they refuse to eliminate the diversity lottery and the courts refuse to enforce immigration laws , they allow the sanctuary states to ignore federal laws.

    If we elected more politicians who advocated strong borders , and those who favor reforming our immigration laws to eliminate the diversity visa and restrict legal immigration to 500,000 per year we could curtail the coming ethnic cleansing of America. Sadly very few senators favor reducing immigration. Most would not even vote to eliminate the unpopular diversity lottery.

    Currently the United States is like the Titanic , heading full speed into icebergs and the first class passengers are telling the captain to go faster. The wealthy oligarchs have lifeboats filled with treasure , and are ready to abandon ship….While the elites are complaining about the deplorables working in the engine room because they are all white and are warning the the passengers about the icebergs, mocking the ignorant workers for their superstitious fears and bigotry.

  33. Is “Chemirmir” a Somali name? Chemirmir is described as “born in Kenya,” but nearly half of Kenya is Somali.
    Oh and don’t worry, Chemirmir may be a serial killer but Donald Trump is making sure Chemirmir gets a green card.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/05/28/accused-illegal-serial-killer-given-green-card-after-overstaying-visa/

  34. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Flotation has been understood since the time of Archimedes - if the weight of the water displaced by an object is less than the weight of the object, the object will float. Ships are a combination of steel (heavy) and air (light) which average out to a density that is less than that of water, but if you replace the air with water then steel + water is heavier than just water and the ship sinks. However, if you fill part of a boat up with foam (which is mostly trapped bubbles of air) then it becomes impossible for water to displace the air inside that part of the boat and if there is enough foam the boat becomes unsinkable even if you fill the remaining part with water. Unfortunately for the passengers on the Titanic, Styrofoam had not yet been invented in 1912 and even if it had, you would have needed to fill most of the ship with it to make it unsinkable - even today ocean liners don't use this technology. Rather, they have addressed the weaknesses in the Titanic's design - the watertight compartments extend to the deck and most importantly, ships now carry adequate lifeboats to evacuate all the passengers.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

    Shouldn’t we have the technology now to have an emergency response foam spraying system, like a fire extinguishing system?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @J.Ross

    Interesting idea but I'm not sure it is practical. TBH, there haven't been many Titanic type sinkings (outside of wartime) since 1913. Roll over accidents where the ship lists heavily to one side (or even flips completely) still seem to be the most deadly type remaining. The list can interfere with the launching of the lifeboats and trap people below deck.

    A lot of flotation at the bottom might make such accidents even worse. One of the reasons the Andrea Doria listed over so severely ( 18 degrees within minutes after the crash) was that, contrary to the ship's operating manual, the empty fuel tanks at the bottom had NOT been filled with seawater ballast as they were supposed to (it was an effort to fill them and then to empty them again before you got to port - easier to just skip it). The starboard tanks flooded with seawater as a result of the gash but the empty port tanks were still full of air and this heeled this ship over almost instantly.

  35. … as the British headed for the lifeboats. But, as on the Titanic, it’s turned out that there aren’t as many as hoped.

    No, their cruel captain and crew locked them below decks.

  36. Border cost per area goes down as the inverse square of territory protected, so there is always the temptation to extend territory (economies of scale). However this also tends to be more “inclusive” to the point that internal divisions doom the entire project due to the Prisoner’s Dilemma: Eventually you’ll evolve critters that invisibly exploit locales and move on with the loot before the damage can be detected let alone traced back to the damaging critters.

  37. Steve not getting it. The dynasties big and small running the West want it flooded with the third world. Jean Claude Juncker being exhibit A.

    We must be crushed and exterminated so we don’t prevent princess Chelsea and Prince Jared and Prince Hunter and the Munger family from ruling us like lords.

    Flooding is the whole point.

    Making life hot for princess and prince is the proper response.

    A punch in the mouth beats a million arguments.

  38. @Reg Cæsar

    But of course San Francisco doesn’t actually want its illegal immigrants to settle down and spend the rest of their lives in San Francisco. When they are worn-out or just sick of hot-bunking, it wants to dump them on the rest of the country. The same costly rules that discourage Americans from moving to San Francisco encourage immigrants to leave.
     
    Two can play the costly rules game.

    We already have a workable compartmentalization when it comes to voting qualifications. Even better, those are defined not by legal residence, but by citizenship. The states can require residents to be citizens to vote, and every state has since 1926, when Arkansas was the last to allow non-citizens to vote.

    Now apply the same logic to wages and benefits. States already set minimum hourly wages at levels above the federal one. Simply set a higher one for those not eligible to vote. (Underage and felon citizens excepted.)

    As a cherry on the sundae, include in the minimum wage full health insurance-- for the worker and all his dependents.

    Replies: @Travis, @Paleo Liberal

    It would appear you aren’t a huge fan of privatizing the profits while socializing the costs.

  39. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Flotation has been understood since the time of Archimedes - if the weight of the water displaced by an object is less than the weight of the object, the object will float. Ships are a combination of steel (heavy) and air (light) which average out to a density that is less than that of water, but if you replace the air with water then steel + water is heavier than just water and the ship sinks. However, if you fill part of a boat up with foam (which is mostly trapped bubbles of air) then it becomes impossible for water to displace the air inside that part of the boat and if there is enough foam the boat becomes unsinkable even if you fill the remaining part with water. Unfortunately for the passengers on the Titanic, Styrofoam had not yet been invented in 1912 and even if it had, you would have needed to fill most of the ship with it to make it unsinkable - even today ocean liners don't use this technology. Rather, they have addressed the weaknesses in the Titanic's design - the watertight compartments extend to the deck and most importantly, ships now carry adequate lifeboats to evacuate all the passengers.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

    Just guessing, as I don’t know him personally, but I’m pretty sure Mr. Leamas, both at home and at work, understands the concept of buoyancy. I’m not a maritime guy, though I’ve sailed before. The foam that’s the inside layer of that Boston Whaler hull structure is polyurethane, not styrofoam, as on a dock or in a pontoon.

    You are right on the point of having volume that can’t be filled with water, Jack. However, the foam can also be a structural part of a hull too, (as the webbing of the “plate”, with the two thin pieces of fiberglass being the flanges.) It can make for a stronger structure, and even with a compromise of both layers of fiberglass in various places, the remains of the boat can float – so you’re gonna get wet, but you’ve got something to keep you from being submersed in cold water (or any is just as bad if you can’t swim until the Carpathia, or Coast Guard, comes).

    I imagine the architects of the big ships want all the volume they can get, hence the reason for no filler.

    The lack of adequate lifeboat room was the biggest mistake made with the Titanic, as you wrote. I’m guessing every single passenger who was old enough to have read about the Titanic took the lifeboat drills seriously ever since 1912, during those many years of Atlantic Ocean passages. When you take a 2-man rubber raft with a 5-gallon gas can and 2.2 Mercury across the Pacific from the big LA Marina (del Rey) to Avalon, you really get how big the water is!

    • Replies: @David
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Freeman Dyson argues that the sinking of the Titanic was a good thing in that transatlantic liners were both quickly increasing in size and competing on transatlantic speed.

    Seeing as how it was just a matter of time before one of those big ships crashed into an iceberg, and the longer it took the bigger the ship was likely to be, the sooner the better.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  40. The European Union Titanic is sinking and it must be scuttled to hasten its watery end.

    The American Empire must be strategically imploded to defend and protect and preserve the United States of America.

    Barroso and Van Rompuy must come back to the EU Parliament for an Old Timer’s Day to allow Farage the chance to blast those baby boomer globalizer whores once again!

    Nigel Farage(2012):

    “This ship — the Euro Titanic — has now hit the iceberg, and, sadly, there simply aren’t enough lifeboats.”

    Tweet from 2015:

    • Replies: @An Aussie
    @Charles Pewitt

    Would be interesting to see a timeline of bailouts, etc since the EU formation.

  41. Fellas, it’s too rough to feed ya.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Ozymandias

    At least it's been nice to know ya.

    I think of those 29 sailors frequently in the context of immigration. Those lost lives were part of what we put into this country, and every immigrant gets an equal share of it without investing a ************* thing in it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  42. @benjaminl
    Off- topic: Amy Harmon reports on the state of nonbinary identity:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/nonbinary-drivers-licenses.html

    World War NB is a strong candidate to follow up World War T.

    Replies: @El Dato, @guest

    Isn’t that the same world war?

  43. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    OT — Très bien, France! Can’t spook le-Duc. The spire rises!

    https://twitter.com/TheLocalFrance/status/1133330473042698241

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    This was the correct decision by the French Senate. It’s too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cagey Beast


    It’s too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.
     
    I don’t get why that would be desirable in the first place. It has already existed as a complete, coherent work for 150+ years. Viollet-le-Duc was commissioned in the 1800s because major bits and pieces of the cathedral had gone missing from centuries of decay.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Cagey Beast

  44. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Flotation has been understood since the time of Archimedes - if the weight of the water displaced by an object is less than the weight of the object, the object will float. Ships are a combination of steel (heavy) and air (light) which average out to a density that is less than that of water, but if you replace the air with water then steel + water is heavier than just water and the ship sinks. However, if you fill part of a boat up with foam (which is mostly trapped bubbles of air) then it becomes impossible for water to displace the air inside that part of the boat and if there is enough foam the boat becomes unsinkable even if you fill the remaining part with water. Unfortunately for the passengers on the Titanic, Styrofoam had not yet been invented in 1912 and even if it had, you would have needed to fill most of the ship with it to make it unsinkable - even today ocean liners don't use this technology. Rather, they have addressed the weaknesses in the Titanic's design - the watertight compartments extend to the deck and most importantly, ships now carry adequate lifeboats to evacuate all the passengers.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    And then he abandoned ship. Helluva a guy. The Concordia didn't exactly sink because the water was too shallow - rather it heeled over onto its side and came to rest sticking up out of the water about halfway (and some people were trapped inside and died, although it could have been much much worse - only around 30 dead out of over 4,000 people on board). Fortunately they were very close to shore because having the ship tilted on its side makes it very difficult to launch the lifeboats.

    Yes, the engineering to right the ship and refloat it was extremely clever, taking advantage of the weight of water and the buoyancy of air. They welded giant metal tanks to the side of the ship. At first they filled the tank on the upper side with water and once they had dragged the ship upright with cables to a certain degree, the weight of the water did the rest and pulled the ship upright the rest of the way. Then they pumped the water out of the tanks and they acted as giant water wings and kept the ship afloat as they towed it to port even though the main hull was still flooded.

    , @Alec Leamas
    @Buffalo Joe


    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.
     
    The best engineering is keeping a horny Italian away from the controls of your vessel.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  45. The Ship of State that is America did not hit an ice berg. It was torpedoed !

  46. Ship of state, my eye.

    What we’re talking about here is the Raft of the Medusa.

  47. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alec Leamas

    And then he abandoned ship. Helluva a guy. The Concordia didn’t exactly sink because the water was too shallow – rather it heeled over onto its side and came to rest sticking up out of the water about halfway (and some people were trapped inside and died, although it could have been much much worse – only around 30 dead out of over 4,000 people on board). Fortunately they were very close to shore because having the ship tilted on its side makes it very difficult to launch the lifeboats.

    Yes, the engineering to right the ship and refloat it was extremely clever, taking advantage of the weight of water and the buoyancy of air. They welded giant metal tanks to the side of the ship. At first they filled the tank on the upper side with water and once they had dragged the ship upright with cables to a certain degree, the weight of the water did the rest and pulled the ship upright the rest of the way. Then they pumped the water out of the tanks and they acted as giant water wings and kept the ship afloat as they towed it to port even though the main hull was still flooded.

  48. @Altai

    But the normally bossy E.U. delegated border defense of the continent to individual member states, not seeing it as a collective responsibility. Of course, the poorer states, such as Greece, didn’t have much short-term incentive (or means) to turn back migrants arriving by sea since the newcomers hardly wanted to stay in Greece, with its flat-broke welfare state.
     
    Actually there is an EU-level border security force, Frontex, though it currently only guards the Schengen Area, with Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia not part of Schengen as yet so it is chiefly deployed to Hungary, Greece, Italy and Spain.
    https://frontex.europa.eu/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Border_and_Coast_Guard_Agency

    Frontex was established in 2005 as the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders, and primarily responsible for coordinating border control efforts. In response to the European migrant crisis of 2015–2016, the European Commission proposed on 15 December 2015, to extend Frontex's mandate and to transform it into a fully-fledged European Border and Coast Guard Agency. On 18 December 2015, the European Council roundly supported the proposal, and after a vote by the European Parliament, the European Border and Coast Guard was officially launched on 6 October 2016 at the Bulgarian external border with Turkey.

    To enable the agency to carry out its tasks, its budget would be gradually increased from the €143 million originally planned for 2015 up to €238 million in 2016, €281 million in 2017, and will reach €322 million (about US$350 million) in 2020. The staff of the agency would gradually increase from 402 members in 2016 to 1,000 by 2020.
     

    Replies: @peterike

    To enable the agency to carry out its tasks, its budget would be gradually increased from the €143 million originally planned for 2015 up to €238 million in 2016, €281 million in 2017, and will reach €322 million (about US$350 million) in 2020. The staff of the agency would gradually increase from 402 members in 2016 to 1,000 by 2020.

    So they started with €143 million and could only employ 402 people? That’s like €355,000 per person. Nice gig. And how many migrants did they stop with that? My guess is the number approaches zero.

    Here’s a better approach. Five dudes on the shoreline with .50 caliber machine gun batteries and shoot to kill orders. Number of migrants stopped: 100%. Lots cheaper too.

  49. J.Ross says: • Website

    You wouldn’t know it from mainstream journalism lately but ships of state with any pretense to democratic values suffer if the legitimate and accepted captain is easily murdered. Unhinged activist-journalists in the antipodes are distinguishing themselves for hostility to democratic values by celebrating the privileged brat who penetrated security to attack a senator with an egg.
    Dear kids who can’t think good, and journalists: if you can get to a top-level politician’s body with an egg, you can get there with something else.
    The activist-journalist gets further from any pretense to journalistic ethics by flat-out lying and defaming the senator in question, describing him as “pro-Tarrant” — that is, this person claiming to be a journalist is leaving a written claim that this senator supports terrorism and mass murder. It sure would be a shame if he lost his job and was sued. No, wait, that wouldn’t be a shame. That would be justice.
    The thoughtless moron who knows nothing about how jernamalizm works? Reuters, the people we used to trust to be better than the NYT.

    https://archive.is/AE42o

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shooting-australia/australias-egg-boy-donates-70000-to-christchurch-attack-victims-idUSKCN1SZ009

  50. @Logan
    @Dieter Kief

    everybody can be – a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    For those who really think this, I suggest tuning in to Jeopardy tonight.

    James is up to something like 25 wins and over $2M. He holds, I think, the top 12 records for one-day winnings.

    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that? Despite 50+ years and tens of thousands of contestants for some reason being unable to do so?

    It seems entirely obvious to me, and I suspect most people, that James was born with immense talent useful for this very specific purpose, and then spent a great deal of time acquiring the knowledge necessary to make that talent work.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @bomag

    I know and talk to lots (!) of people here who talk like that. If confronted with your James example, the usual reaction would be something like: Ok, but Jeopardy-James is an exception. – The thinking here is very flexible and usually has no problem giving in – as long as the basic blank-slatism is not touched. I’ve seen – really good minded and helpful people failing to help immigrants to learn something useful – at times two or three times in a row after 2015.

    But they still find reasons, what the obstacles were. The last resort is often times: He (or she) is traumatized. What’s incredibly bad is, that the experiences in the US, for example, are not being told. – And if told, not really accepted. The usual explanation for the relative underperformance of US blacks here in Germany is – racism – or unconscious biases (caused by racism…).

    (There is hardly any German journalist in the US, who has at least a bit of insight. They all read (and firmly believe in ) the NYT… (and that’s it)). And the field of professional pedagogy in the West is in complete agony – a (black, sigh) miracle of sorts!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Dieter Kief

    The irony is that since Holzhauer is a (part) Jap and since Japs were once considered to be from an inferior race, we should draw the lesson from James that Guatemalans are just Japs who are a generation or two behind. In Jeopardy 2059 (unfortunately Alex won't be around to see it - he shouldn't even be buying green bananas at this point) Jaime Maduro will display the same feat if we only stop being racist and give him the chance.

  51. @Anon
    Sanctuary cities are such a silly distraction.

    Target the 11 million non-criminal (other than their illegal presence) with eVerify, and block them from access to financial accounts and the use of any remittance services, along with other assorted harassment of them and their citizen abetters, at the federal level. Offer carrots in the form of graduated bribes to get the hell out and stay out, as Canada has sometimes done. The only illegals left for sanctuary cities will then be criminal riff-raff, and local voters will soon tire of them.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Trump has said (per Derb, who included an audio clip) that eVerify is too hard. If he still has rallies, people at his rallies should hold up “eVerify” on signs (the best would be to cross out “Trump” and write “eVerify” underneath, emphasizing it as an alternative).

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
  52. @Dieter Kief
    @Logan

    I know and talk to lots (!) of people here who talk like that. If confronted with your James example, the usual reaction would be something like: Ok, but Jeopardy-James is an exception. - The thinking here is very flexible and usually has no problem giving in - as long as the basic blank-slatism is not touched. I've seen - really good minded and helpful people failing to help immigrants to learn something useful - at times two or three times in a row after 2015.

    But they still find reasons, what the obstacles were. The last resort is often times: He (or she) is traumatized. What's incredibly bad is, that the experiences in the US, for example, are not being told. - And if told, not really accepted. The usual explanation for the relative underperformance of US blacks here in Germany is - racism - or unconscious biases (caused by racism...).

    (There is hardly any German journalist in the US, who has at least a bit of insight. They all read (and firmly believe in ) the NYT... (and that's it)). And the field of professional pedagogy in the West is in complete agony - a (black, sigh) miracle of sorts!

    Replies: @Jack D

    The irony is that since Holzhauer is a (part) Jap and since Japs were once considered to be from an inferior race, we should draw the lesson from James that Guatemalans are just Japs who are a generation or two behind. In Jeopardy 2059 (unfortunately Alex won’t be around to see it – he shouldn’t even be buying green bananas at this point) Jaime Maduro will display the same feat if we only stop being racist and give him the chance.

  53. @Altai
    @Dieter Kief

    What I find strange is that outside Britain there is no understanding that mass migration from Eastern and later after the economy had been terra-formed into a low-wage immigrant one with the ECB deciding to effectively write-off the Southern economies, Southern Europe was already the reason for Brexit and what may be the beginning of the existential crisis for the EU and third-way neoliberalism. The borders were already expanded too far to include too much cheap labour. (And the EMU was already a guaranteed disaster when Germany and Italy were put into a currency union)

    Over the last 15 years EU migration has been far greater and far more deleterious for living conditions and sense of community for the working classes who left Labour to wither away and voted to leave the EU who might otherwise have voted remain or not voted at all, they were the key new factor. Asylum seeker class people live mostly off the public purse and don't have much to offer in labour competition. Their impact is mostly spatial, but EU migrants displace spatially and economically and are far more numerous to boot.

    The rest of the EU doesn't get it because the amount of inter-EU migration is negligible in comparison. Poland destroyed the EU by exporting so many people to the UK, not by making a ruckus over Merkel's Million Man March.

    The fatal concern for the EU right now is what the consequence of any roll back of integration will be, all this has so far been powered by the overwhelming force of TINA (There is no alternative) and a sense of manifest-destiny. I don't think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    I don’t think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.

    I’m a firm believer in the right understanding of what’s going on. Some people get it – Guillaume Durocher over at unz gets what’s going on.
    A big advantage of the E.u. is that it is so divided – thus the biggest mistakes are always counteracted by opponents such as Orban or the people in GB or Kurz in Austria or – – – the Swiss even, who cooperate, but make their own thing – right in front of our noses, which is quite impressive.

    The E.U. will continue to muddle through. – The man who understood the E. U: best from all I know is German intellectual Hans Magnus Enzensberger. He – in 2011! – published an 80 p. (lucid) essay and his main thesis is hidden in the final chapter (a fictional dialogue): The E. U. has to be downsized! – I think Enzensberger is still – and even more so than before – quite right.

    Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Brussels, the Gentle Monster: or the Disenfranchisement of Europe, 2011

    In French

    Le Doux Monstre de Bruxelles ou L’Europe sous tutelle, traduit par Bernard Lortholary, Paris, Gallimard, 2011 (ISBN 978-2-07-013499-1)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Dieter Kief

    'The biggest mistakes are always countered'.

    Well, the decision to abandon national currencies and bring in the Euro was steamrollered in, unopposed, by Euro elites. Germans were solemnly promised that 'there would be no transfer union' under currency unification.
    The Euro was imposed unopposed and agreed upon by the German people, and indeed most other continental Europeans.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  54. @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    Shouldn't we have the technology now to have an emergency response foam spraying system, like a fire extinguishing system?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Interesting idea but I’m not sure it is practical. TBH, there haven’t been many Titanic type sinkings (outside of wartime) since 1913. Roll over accidents where the ship lists heavily to one side (or even flips completely) still seem to be the most deadly type remaining. The list can interfere with the launching of the lifeboats and trap people below deck.

    A lot of flotation at the bottom might make such accidents even worse. One of the reasons the Andrea Doria listed over so severely ( 18 degrees within minutes after the crash) was that, contrary to the ship’s operating manual, the empty fuel tanks at the bottom had NOT been filled with seawater ballast as they were supposed to (it was an effort to fill them and then to empty them again before you got to port – easier to just skip it). The starboard tanks flooded with seawater as a result of the gash but the empty port tanks were still full of air and this heeled this ship over almost instantly.

  55. @Cagey Beast
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    This was the correct decision by the French Senate. It's too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It’s too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.

    I don’t get why that would be desirable in the first place. It has already existed as a complete, coherent work for 150+ years. Viollet-le-Duc was commissioned in the 1800s because major bits and pieces of the cathedral had gone missing from centuries of decay.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    But le Duc didn't just put back what was missing (even though what was missing was pretty much known from old engravings, etc.) He reimagined the spire and some other parts in order to out Gothic the Gothics. Generally speaking , "great" architects (the original cathedrals didn't really have architects, they had anonymous builders) feel obligated to put their stamp on a building, whether it is new or a renovation. Very few are humble enough to make themselves invisible. And maybe if he had done so, we wouldn't even know who le Duc was, so maybe he was right.

    , @Cagey Beast
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Almost every tour of an historic building I remember mentioned an improvement added after a fire in 1640, 1890 or whenever. That seems to be the rule, rather than the exception. In that sense, this ruling by the French Senate is exceptional but it's nevertheless correct.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  56. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cagey Beast


    It’s too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.
     
    I don’t get why that would be desirable in the first place. It has already existed as a complete, coherent work for 150+ years. Viollet-le-Duc was commissioned in the 1800s because major bits and pieces of the cathedral had gone missing from centuries of decay.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Cagey Beast

    But le Duc didn’t just put back what was missing (even though what was missing was pretty much known from old engravings, etc.) He reimagined the spire and some other parts in order to out Gothic the Gothics. Generally speaking , “great” architects (the original cathedrals didn’t really have architects, they had anonymous builders) feel obligated to put their stamp on a building, whether it is new or a renovation. Very few are humble enough to make themselves invisible. And maybe if he had done so, we wouldn’t even know who le Duc was, so maybe he was right.

  57. @Travis
    @Reg Cæsar

    We already have this system in place, which is the reason the tech firms all want more H1B visas. Currently 900,000 Asians are working in the United states on h1b visas, and they work for less than American citizens which is the main reason businesses lobby for more H1b visas.
    The number of total H-1B visa applications filed by employers on behalf of foreign workers increased from 246,126 in fiscal 2009 to 399,349 in 2016, and is on pace to reach a new high in 2017. Overall, U.S. employers filed more than 3.4 million H-1B visa applications from fiscal 2007 through the end of June 2017

    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts. A better plan would be to eliminate the h1B visas program instead of encouraging firms to hire more cheap foreign labor.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts.

    You completely missed my point. I proposed a higher minimum wage for non-citizens.

    $50/hr would be a good start.

    It’s only “racist (and “sexist”) if minimum wages are inherently so. Because minimums were originally originally enacted to keep out black and female competition.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    I like this idea from the accelerationist P.O.V. How many non-citizens i.e. aliens are undergrads at Berkeley and Harvard? What about the faculty? Foreign profs, deans, and grad-student TA's must be paid 3x their Murican equivalent salary; the holiness of immigrants requires it, it's who we are

    , @Travis
    @Reg Cæsar

    this would greatly increase the demand for green card holders at the expense of citizens.
    The average citizen would go begging , unable to find employment as all the firms and individuals would hire non-citizens. Instead of hiring the current crew that landscapes our property for about $12 an hour we would have to replace them with foreigners earning $20 an hour to avoid paying the Americans $50 an hour.

    it would be far easier to increase the fees we currently charge firms for each H1b worker. Obama actually doubled the fees firms must pay to hire an H1b worker. The H1B visa petition application fee paid to USCIS for new and extensions to be increased by $4000 USD and the L1 visa application fee to increase by $4,500 USD for employers in 2015.
    https://redbus2us.com/news-h1b-and-l1-fee-to-go-up-by-4000-and-4500-until-year-2025/

    100,000 foreign workers are brought to the US on the H-1B visa and are allowed to stay for up to six years. There are currently 750,000 H-1B visa foreign workers in the US

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  58. @Charles Pewitt
    The European Union Titanic is sinking and it must be scuttled to hasten its watery end.

    The American Empire must be strategically imploded to defend and protect and preserve the United States of America.

    Barroso and Van Rompuy must come back to the EU Parliament for an Old Timer's Day to allow Farage the chance to blast those baby boomer globalizer whores once again!

    Nigel Farage(2012):

    "This ship -- the Euro Titanic -- has now hit the iceberg, and, sadly, there simply aren't enough lifeboats."

    Tweet from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/593912657910099968

    https://youtu.be/TN_1mF-3JTI

    Replies: @An Aussie

    Would be interesting to see a timeline of bailouts, etc since the EU formation.

  59. Turkey admitted about 3 million Syrian migrants. Not letting them join the EU as the Euroweenie-Economist Magazine crowd demanded was quite the prescient decision.

  60. The core issue here is that you should not–can not–be in a nation with a whole lot of people who are disloyal to the nation.

    When i was a kid, while there were a bunch of the typical American class, ethnic, sectional and ideological divisions, 95% of the people were loyal to their fellow Americans … even if they didn’t like some of them very much!

    50 years of minoritarianism, mass immigration, non-enforcement of borders, globalization and new-class post-Christian virtue signalling … that’s just gone.

    Minoritarianism and immigration have thoroughly balkanized any concept of Americaness. Large numbers of “elite” whites have adopted a new religion of minoritarian good-thought-thinking and have moved from simple class superiority to adopting essentially Jewish attitudes of disconnection and contempt toward their flyover country/flyover class relatives. They simply do not feel, that they share a heritage, culture or nation with, nor have any responsibility toward, “deplorable” Americans.

    ~~

    What is required is a clear and unambigous message that while they are entitled to live as global cosmopolitans, they have no right to destroy our nations and make the rest of us, who want to continue living in our nations, live that way as well.

    My take is that once we can get to that–“you go live in your rainbow utopia but it doesn’t include us”–point … it’s over.

    The truth is both:
    — these global elites don’t really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.

    Absent the productive, well behaved, nation oriented white people to extract from–couped up with their diversity pets–their lifestyles would take a terrible tumble. At the prospect of actual separation, almost all these elites–so keen to lecture us now on “diversity”–would dump diversity in milliseconds and would be baying at the gates demanding their place in white nations.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @AnotherDad

    You talk with “average elites” much? They really do think mass migration can replace middle America with no ill effects. To the extent they think about demographics at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @JackOH
    @AnotherDad

    "The truth is both:
    — these global elites don’t really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction."

    AD, yep. Parasitic extraction under color of law and deliberative process is probably why a lot of us are here. It was something of a shock to my system when I discovered in my early 30s that legislation and corporate practices are often driven by a "let's see what we can get away with" ethic, and to hell with the consequences. I don't know what you do with our sleazebag elites. They've got the megaphone, they control the levers of power, and resistance to them is extremely difficult.

    , @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.
     
    This sounds like socialism to me - the labor theory of value. According to market theory, everyone makes what the market is willing to pay them. If the market is willing to pay someone who "produces nothing" $350/hr for his talents and someone else who makes widgets $20/hr, then that's the right price for their services - maybe there are lots of people who can do the $20/hr job but the talents needed to do the $350/hr job are in shorter supply.

    So what you are advocating is a sort of socialism combined with nationalism. You might call it National Socialism. I think I've seen this movie already.

    Also note that in any place where they decide to get rid of "parasites" instead of the workers getting richer they got even poorer - it turns out that "parasites" actually serve some valuable function so that's why we have them in the 1st place.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lot, @AnotherDad

  61. @Logan
    @Dieter Kief

    everybody can be – a scientist or whatever, as soon as the schoolteachers (and society as a whole) are unprejudiced and thus give him the needed support and a fair chance.

    For those who really think this, I suggest tuning in to Jeopardy tonight.

    James is up to something like 25 wins and over $2M. He holds, I think, the top 12 records for one-day winnings.

    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that? Despite 50+ years and tens of thousands of contestants for some reason being unable to do so?

    It seems entirely obvious to me, and I suspect most people, that James was born with immense talent useful for this very specific purpose, and then spent a great deal of time acquiring the knowledge necessary to make that talent work.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @bomag

    Can anybody watch him perform and seriously contend that just anybody could learn or be trained to do that?

    Well, Steve’s always stated that things are about 50-50 in the nature/nurture dichotomy.

    Over time, things tend to get hacked. I believe one statement of this in economics is “perfecting the market.”

  62. Lot says:
    @Anon
    That was a really good one.

    I don't know what the deal is with getting an opinion piece in, god forbid, the New York Times, but maybe it's worth taking a shot from time to time when you're particularly inspired. Who knows?

    Replies: @Lot

    The NYT would never print Steve. They stopped printing Razib when they learned he had similar views.

    If Steve wanted to do op eds again, he knows the best way to get started: send them unsolicited to 100+ smaller newspapers. Most of them are not as censorious as the NYT on HBD issues.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Lot


    The NYT would never print Steve. They stopped printing Razib when they learned he had similar views.
     
    There's a slight overlap, but not much.
  63. @AnotherDad
    The core issue here is that you should not--can not--be in a nation with a whole lot of people who are disloyal to the nation.

    When i was a kid, while there were a bunch of the typical American class, ethnic, sectional and ideological divisions, 95% of the people were loyal to their fellow Americans ... even if they didn't like some of them very much!

    50 years of minoritarianism, mass immigration, non-enforcement of borders, globalization and new-class post-Christian virtue signalling ... that's just gone.

    Minoritarianism and immigration have thoroughly balkanized any concept of Americaness. Large numbers of "elite" whites have adopted a new religion of minoritarian good-thought-thinking and have moved from simple class superiority to adopting essentially Jewish attitudes of disconnection and contempt toward their flyover country/flyover class relatives. They simply do not feel, that they share a heritage, culture or nation with, nor have any responsibility toward, "deplorable" Americans.

    ~~

    What is required is a clear and unambigous message that while they are entitled to live as global cosmopolitans, they have no right to destroy our nations and make the rest of us, who want to continue living in our nations, live that way as well.

    My take is that once we can get to that--"you go live in your rainbow utopia but it doesn't include us"--point ... it's over.

    The truth is both:
    -- these global elites don't really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    -- these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media--i.e. "overhead". They don't produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.

    Absent the productive, well behaved, nation oriented white people to extract from--couped up with their diversity pets--their lifestyles would take a terrible tumble. At the prospect of actual separation, almost all these elites--so keen to lecture us now on "diversity"--would dump diversity in milliseconds and would be baying at the gates demanding their place in white nations.

    Replies: @Lot, @JackOH, @Jack D

    You talk with “average elites” much? They really do think mass migration can replace middle America with no ill effects. To the extent they think about demographics at all.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Lot

    Who are these "average elites"? Douglas Murray rubbished the possible effectiveness of replacement without breaking "respectable" character. I have trouble believing that anybody believes this would work, especially true elites. What they believe is that Europe is evil and deserves to be erased, and that automation will moot the question of replacement.

    Replies: @Lot

  64. @George
    Ship hulls and water are inanimate. The problem is how you use state violence to enforce the US border. At the current time, there is no desire to use force to stop people from crossing the border or even deport them.

    At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like. This is the cleaned up version, I can't find the raw video anymore.

    Egyptian Guards Shoot Palestinian Trying To Leave Gaza
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVJzhjdki6I

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Corvinus, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Reg Cæsar

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by… Adam Smith’s invisible hand.

    America: goosed by the Invisible Hand.

    or, for Steve’s readers in Japan…

    Open borders: enforced by Adam Smith’s Invisible Kancho!

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Chrisnonymous

    Yes, good of you to bring up Japan, the backward and bitterly lamented wasteland which proves that open borders are an economic necessity.

  65. The EU approach to immigration is in the tradition of a notorious ship of state

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    RORO ferries like the Herald of Free Enterprise had no watertight compartments, sunk very quickly and that accounted for the high level of fatalities despite it sinking in shallow water close to harbour and the quick rescue attempt.

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember. Watched the coverage on Swedish TV in Stockholm, the port it was heading to. Used to take the ferry every summer to Scandinavia when I was younger and those two disasters meant it was always slightly on my mind as to whether everything would be fine when I woke up the next morning. Otherwise I don't think I have ever slept as well as I did on those ferries, gentle rocking is very soothing.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

  66. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Travis


    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts.
     
    You completely missed my point. I proposed a higher minimum wage for non-citizens.

    $50/hr would be a good start.

    It's only "racist (and "sexist") if minimum wages are inherently so. Because minimums were originally originally enacted to keep out black and female competition.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Travis

    I like this idea from the accelerationist P.O.V. How many non-citizens i.e. aliens are undergrads at Berkeley and Harvard? What about the faculty? Foreign profs, deans, and grad-student TA’s must be paid 3x their Murican equivalent salary; the holiness of immigrants requires it, it’s who we are

  67. Lot says:

    Steve, a very bright anonymous academic has a medium account and has written two very worthy articles:

    1. A summary of Jewish IQ research that is more up to date than the best prior one (by Greg Cochran).

    2. A long, devastating takedown of Eric Turkheimer.

    There’s also a third article about tax opinion polling I didn’t look at yet.

    All are here:

    https://medium.com/@cremieux

    A sample of 2:

    “Eric Nathan Turkheimer, the Hugh Scott Hamilton Professor of Psychology at the University of Virginia, is much more likely to be a meretricious fraud promoting skullduggery than he is to be a scientist. He has committed himself to the misrepresentation of science, its history, and the actors within it, for clearly ideological reasons. His scientific raison d’être has already been declared, and it is not only unscientific but anti-scientific. In this piece, I elaborate and substantiate this claim, showing that Turkheimer has produced weak research, knowingly misrepresented findings, and treated himself to statistical liberties that would be unacceptable across the political divide. He has done this and more for the purpose of striking at the credibility of scholars with whom he disagrees for ideological reasons.”

    • Agree: theo the kraut
    • Replies: @Lot
    @Lot

    Hmm, I think he may have one item wrong in the Jewish IQ article. He quotes Nisbett saying AJs score 10 points worse than nonAJ whites, who in turn cites Lynn 1991.

    However, my memory of reading the 1972 project talent article was the difference was a lot smaller than that.

    I can’t access the 1972 paywalled article anymore, however Dunkel has a table with the results, and it shows about a 1/6 of a SD AJ deficit, resulting in a 3D visuospatial AJ subtest IQ of about 97.5, not 90.

    Replies: @res

    , @res
    @Lot

    Good find. Thanks.

    Does anyone know about this calculation mentioned in the Turkheimer piece?


    The between-group heritability calculated via DeFries formula (which Turkheimer acts ignorant of) is at least 71–73% for the Jewish-white Gentile difference.
     
    I was able to find the DeFries formula in chapter 2 of https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Environment-Behavior-Implications-Educational/dp/B001U03EPW
    but have no idea where Crémieux got the numbers to plug into it.

    DeFries himelf used his equation to look at the B-W IQ difference with inconclusive results. See Equation (9) and pp. 10-11.

    P.S. I liked this bit from 2.

    Bad maths does not disturb Turkheimer if it comports with his ideology, which can be summarized as such:

    1. Opposition to findings that comport with a unidimensional view of cognitive ability;
    2. Opposition to high heritabilities;
    3. Opposition to the existence of genetic group differences;
    4. A dogmatic insistence that there is no genetic component to (select) group differences.

     

    Replies: @Lot

  68. @AnotherDad
    The core issue here is that you should not--can not--be in a nation with a whole lot of people who are disloyal to the nation.

    When i was a kid, while there were a bunch of the typical American class, ethnic, sectional and ideological divisions, 95% of the people were loyal to their fellow Americans ... even if they didn't like some of them very much!

    50 years of minoritarianism, mass immigration, non-enforcement of borders, globalization and new-class post-Christian virtue signalling ... that's just gone.

    Minoritarianism and immigration have thoroughly balkanized any concept of Americaness. Large numbers of "elite" whites have adopted a new religion of minoritarian good-thought-thinking and have moved from simple class superiority to adopting essentially Jewish attitudes of disconnection and contempt toward their flyover country/flyover class relatives. They simply do not feel, that they share a heritage, culture or nation with, nor have any responsibility toward, "deplorable" Americans.

    ~~

    What is required is a clear and unambigous message that while they are entitled to live as global cosmopolitans, they have no right to destroy our nations and make the rest of us, who want to continue living in our nations, live that way as well.

    My take is that once we can get to that--"you go live in your rainbow utopia but it doesn't include us"--point ... it's over.

    The truth is both:
    -- these global elites don't really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    -- these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media--i.e. "overhead". They don't produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.

    Absent the productive, well behaved, nation oriented white people to extract from--couped up with their diversity pets--their lifestyles would take a terrible tumble. At the prospect of actual separation, almost all these elites--so keen to lecture us now on "diversity"--would dump diversity in milliseconds and would be baying at the gates demanding their place in white nations.

    Replies: @Lot, @JackOH, @Jack D

    “The truth is both:
    — these global elites don’t really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.”

    AD, yep. Parasitic extraction under color of law and deliberative process is probably why a lot of us are here. It was something of a shock to my system when I discovered in my early 30s that legislation and corporate practices are often driven by a “let’s see what we can get away with” ethic, and to hell with the consequences. I don’t know what you do with our sleazebag elites. They’ve got the megaphone, they control the levers of power, and resistance to them is extremely difficult.

  69. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Just guessing, as I don't know him personally, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Leamas, both at home and at work, understands the concept of buoyancy. I'm not a maritime guy, though I've sailed before. The foam that's the inside layer of that Boston Whaler hull structure is polyurethane, not styrofoam, as on a dock or in a pontoon.

    You are right on the point of having volume that can't be filled with water, Jack. However, the foam can also be a structural part of a hull too, (as the webbing of the "plate", with the two thin pieces of fiberglass being the flanges.) It can make for a stronger structure, and even with a compromise of both layers of fiberglass in various places, the remains of the boat can float - so you're gonna get wet, but you've got something to keep you from being submersed in cold water (or any is just as bad if you can't swim until the Carpathia, or Coast Guard, comes).

    I imagine the architects of the big ships want all the volume they can get, hence the reason for no filler.

    The lack of adequate lifeboat room was the biggest mistake made with the Titanic, as you wrote. I'm guessing every single passenger who was old enough to have read about the Titanic took the lifeboat drills seriously ever since 1912, during those many years of Atlantic Ocean passages. When you take a 2-man rubber raft with a 5-gallon gas can and 2.2 Mercury across the Pacific from the big LA Marina (del Rey) to Avalon, you really get how big the water is!

    Replies: @David

    Freeman Dyson argues that the sinking of the Titanic was a good thing in that transatlantic liners were both quickly increasing in size and competing on transatlantic speed.

    Seeing as how it was just a matter of time before one of those big ships crashed into an iceberg, and the longer it took the bigger the ship was likely to be, the sooner the better.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @David

    To me it'd sure have been better if that first one WAS a smaller ship, and there were enough lifeboats and the Mayday was sent and received quickly to vessels closer by. The lesson would still have been learned, right?

    Radar was a long time into the future, though, so speed and lack of good reports were the biggest factors, I guess.

  70. Great analogy by Steve with the Titanic hull and watertight compartments vs the E.U. immigration situation. Apt and true.

  71. @Lot
    @AnotherDad

    You talk with “average elites” much? They really do think mass migration can replace middle America with no ill effects. To the extent they think about demographics at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Who are these “average elites”? Douglas Murray rubbished the possible effectiveness of replacement without breaking “respectable” character. I have trouble believing that anybody believes this would work, especially true elites. What they believe is that Europe is evil and deserves to be erased, and that automation will moot the question of replacement.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @J.Ross

    My point is: don’t overestimate the knowledge or intelligence of the people running the country.

    The Kochs are about as elite as it gets. And they love Malcolm Gladwell.

    Also highly popular among rich businessmen are Ayn Rand and Thomas Friedman.

    Now at the very top of the elite class they get smarter, certainly Gates, Buffet, Zuck, Bezos, Ellison all have huge IQs.

    But the mass elite, people in the top 1% of income, wealth, or political or social influence mostly know nothing at all about demographic trends. If you asked them something basic like the black and asian share of the US population, they mostly wouldn’t know.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  72. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Cagey Beast


    It’s too bad we live in an era when architects and artists simply cannot be trusted to add their own contribution to the cathedral.
     
    I don’t get why that would be desirable in the first place. It has already existed as a complete, coherent work for 150+ years. Viollet-le-Duc was commissioned in the 1800s because major bits and pieces of the cathedral had gone missing from centuries of decay.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Cagey Beast

    Almost every tour of an historic building I remember mentioned an improvement added after a fire in 1640, 1890 or whenever. That seems to be the rule, rather than the exception. In that sense, this ruling by the French Senate is exceptional but it’s nevertheless correct.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Cagey Beast

    In 1640 or 1890 the improvements were improvements. Everyone knows what's waiting for the wings here and it would not be a improvement.

  73. @Ozymandias
    Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    At least it’s been nice to know ya.

    I think of those 29 sailors frequently in the context of immigration. Those lost lives were part of what we put into this country, and every immigrant gets an equal share of it without investing a ************* thing in it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @ben tillman

    Ben, if you watch the video, one of my favorites, wait until the end when the list of names and places of origin are shown - mostly they are from right around the Great Lakes, all white men. It was truly the America of American Dad's comment above.

    "And all that remains is the faces and the names
    of the wives and the sons and the daughters."

  74. @AnotherDad
    The core issue here is that you should not--can not--be in a nation with a whole lot of people who are disloyal to the nation.

    When i was a kid, while there were a bunch of the typical American class, ethnic, sectional and ideological divisions, 95% of the people were loyal to their fellow Americans ... even if they didn't like some of them very much!

    50 years of minoritarianism, mass immigration, non-enforcement of borders, globalization and new-class post-Christian virtue signalling ... that's just gone.

    Minoritarianism and immigration have thoroughly balkanized any concept of Americaness. Large numbers of "elite" whites have adopted a new religion of minoritarian good-thought-thinking and have moved from simple class superiority to adopting essentially Jewish attitudes of disconnection and contempt toward their flyover country/flyover class relatives. They simply do not feel, that they share a heritage, culture or nation with, nor have any responsibility toward, "deplorable" Americans.

    ~~

    What is required is a clear and unambigous message that while they are entitled to live as global cosmopolitans, they have no right to destroy our nations and make the rest of us, who want to continue living in our nations, live that way as well.

    My take is that once we can get to that--"you go live in your rainbow utopia but it doesn't include us"--point ... it's over.

    The truth is both:
    -- these global elites don't really want to live in their globotopia, they just want to assert power, get cheap labor, and rub our deplorable noses in it
    -- these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media--i.e. "overhead". They don't produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.

    Absent the productive, well behaved, nation oriented white people to extract from--couped up with their diversity pets--their lifestyles would take a terrible tumble. At the prospect of actual separation, almost all these elites--so keen to lecture us now on "diversity"--would dump diversity in milliseconds and would be baying at the gates demanding their place in white nations.

    Replies: @Lot, @JackOH, @Jack D

    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.

    This sounds like socialism to me – the labor theory of value. According to market theory, everyone makes what the market is willing to pay them. If the market is willing to pay someone who “produces nothing” $350/hr for his talents and someone else who makes widgets $20/hr, then that’s the right price for their services – maybe there are lots of people who can do the $20/hr job but the talents needed to do the $350/hr job are in shorter supply.

    So what you are advocating is a sort of socialism combined with nationalism. You might call it National Socialism. I think I’ve seen this movie already.

    Also note that in any place where they decide to get rid of “parasites” instead of the workers getting richer they got even poorer – it turns out that “parasites” actually serve some valuable function so that’s why we have them in the 1st place.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    The market doesn't certify that they actually do anything, just that they suckered someone or got a sweetheart deal from them. "Anger management" courses are meaningless unscientific tripe and their proctors make plenty of money for doing nothing. Homeopathy is still around because it is profitable.
    Our elites are stupid people, clueless inheritors, the proverbial third generation that cannot retain the family wealth. There's more than enough gentiles in that group to moot the "you know who else liked eating vegetables?" schtick.

    , @Lot
    @Jack D

    The problem is AD is conflating “taxation and elite extraction.”

    He’s right we have a bloated public sector. But if finance wasn’t adding value, why in the competition between nations is it always there in successful nations?

    At the same time, market wage outcomes feel unfair to me, and making elites pay most taxes seems a fair way to correct this (with taxes themselves much lower but also more progressive and more focused on unearned income such as rents and inheritances, and also pollution and luxury goods. )

    Replies: @Jack D, @SimpleSong

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D



    This sounds like socialism to me ...
     
    Jack, my point isn't exactly rocket science to comprehend so i assume you simply do not want to comprehend it.

    Government, finance, for that matter, the military, the police, prisons, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. etc. are not creating wealth, nor are they things that people actually want to consume. They are ancillary non-productive services that people require once there is the production of wealth. (Yes, they are each a bit different, i'm not trying to drill down into each one.)

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer--and the Illinois farmer, and the Wisconsin dairyman, and the Michigan auto maker, the Pennsylvannia steel maker and the Ohio jet engine engineer, and the Texas oil man, and the Washington aerospace engineer, and the California ... ok, never mind.

    In short:
    America is not rich because of Wall Street, Wall Street is rich because of America.
    America is not rich because of Washington, Washington is rich because of America.

    Whack America down to one tenth it's size and ... Washington and Wall Street would suddenly become a *lot* poorer. Likewise replace America's white population with blacks and ... Washington and Wall Street would be a lot poorer. These places do not produce anything they take a cut of the American economy and suddenly there would be a whole lot less money sloshing around. Suddenly that genius K-street lobbyist would not be "worth" $1000 an hour.

    None of this is difficult to comprehend.

    This isn't to say a bunch of these people aren't sharp or capable. But they are rich, because they are doing elite extraction on top of a big huge rich nation with decent land, with a highly capable and productive white population. Move these very same people to do finance and government in say ... Botswana and suddenly for all their genius they are not longer so "productive" ... because they aren't actually producing anything, they are taking a cut.


    And my point is that if separation came and a whole lot of the United States separated off to be the nationalist "USA Classic"--ex. say along the lines of Trump-Clinton vote--then although the folks destined for "United States of Rainbow" contains a lot of people with high-incomes right now they would have dramatically lower incomes tomorrow, because their incomes are not based on producing anything that anyone in the world actually wants to consume, but rather because they had been doing elite extraction on top of big rich white nation ... which is no longer theirs! And--as i claimed--since they aren't generally dolts a whole lot of them--if push came to shove--would have a rethink on joining an open-borders rainbow globotopia and decide "uh ... um ... maybe i'll just stick with the deplorable white guys."

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @SimpleSong, @Reg Cæsar

  75. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alec Leamas

    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.

    The best engineering is keeping a horny Italian away from the controls of your vessel.

    • LOL: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Alec Leamas

    Alec, hmmm, it is an Italian cruise line so at least they hire Italian captains, But he had to be really stupid to sail as he did.

  76. “When I was a kid, while there were a bunch of the typical American class, ethnic, sectional and ideological divisions, 95% of the people were loyal to their fellow Americans … even if they didn’t like some of them very much!”

    Your minoritazion comments don’t meet the standard of what occurred in history. Minorities who existed in the country or arrived by choice legally have a history of deep loyalty to the US. That is why they came after all. As for others, It’s hard to place the native population, but those who were former slaves spent most of their history trying top prove their worth despite the response they kept at it until around the early 1990’s when I think even successful african americxans thought the matter thin. The Times article about successful angry black men introduced that dynamic.

    But your comments regarding life when I was younger even into my thirties, I think reflect with great accuracy the state of what it meant to be a citizen. I could have an argument with someone over politics one night, wake up and be their ready to work right alongside —

    I think the strange and incorrect response to Vietnam really opened that door with subsequent “me generation” ethos.

    Immigration both legal and illegal are certainly at issue.

  77. immigration is a federal and state matter. And neither the states nor the federal government should dismissing the right of US to be unburdened by people who have entered the country illegally.

    Note: No state of the US is a nation unto itself. That ended with the IS Constitutions to replace the Articles of Confederation.

    I am firm believer that the preamble matters . . . ..

    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    Constitution of the United States.

    Note the Supremacy clause.

  78. @George
    Ship hulls and water are inanimate. The problem is how you use state violence to enforce the US border. At the current time, there is no desire to use force to stop people from crossing the border or even deport them.

    At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like. This is the cleaned up version, I can't find the raw video anymore.

    Egyptian Guards Shoot Palestinian Trying To Leave Gaza
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVJzhjdki6I

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Corvinus, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Reg Cæsar

    “At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like.”

    I can do you one better.


    Rumor has it that Syrian Shirley Temple, Shumaila Tamer, was coerced by her slavers to sing the Alt Right version of “The Good Ship Lollipop” in broken English for some Rooh Afza. Here is the first verse.

    “I’ve been thrown in the water, really cold it feels
    I will make some noise with real live shrieks and squeals
    Didn’t think I would drown, it’s not neat to sink
    And when I do, how great a trip on this rink a dink-dink”

    “On the Bad Ship, No Bread Crumbs
    It’s a rough trip on the Mare Nostrum
    No boom-boom guns?
    Just sink the damn ships, you Italians”

  79. @Reg Cæsar
    @Travis


    But any law which actually sets a lower minimum wage for non-citizens would be deemed racist by the courts.
     
    You completely missed my point. I proposed a higher minimum wage for non-citizens.

    $50/hr would be a good start.

    It's only "racist (and "sexist") if minimum wages are inherently so. Because minimums were originally originally enacted to keep out black and female competition.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Travis

    this would greatly increase the demand for green card holders at the expense of citizens.
    The average citizen would go begging , unable to find employment as all the firms and individuals would hire non-citizens. Instead of hiring the current crew that landscapes our property for about $12 an hour we would have to replace them with foreigners earning $20 an hour to avoid paying the Americans $50 an hour.

    it would be far easier to increase the fees we currently charge firms for each H1b worker. Obama actually doubled the fees firms must pay to hire an H1b worker. The H1B visa petition application fee paid to USCIS for new and extensions to be increased by $4000 USD and the L1 visa application fee to increase by $4,500 USD for employers in 2015.
    https://redbus2us.com/news-h1b-and-l1-fee-to-go-up-by-4000-and-4500-until-year-2025/

    100,000 foreign workers are brought to the US on the H-1B visa and are allowed to stay for up to six years. There are currently 750,000 H-1B visa foreign workers in the US

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Travis

    You have the worst reading comprehension of any commenter I've seen here in, what?, ten years of Steve taking comments. I explicitly wrote that we should raise the minimum wage for foreigners, not Americans. And somehow you interpret that as raising it for Americans and not for foreigners.

    Go back and sue your high school.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  80. @Lot
    @Anon

    The NYT would never print Steve. They stopped printing Razib when they learned he had similar views.

    If Steve wanted to do op eds again, he knows the best way to get started: send them unsolicited to 100+ smaller newspapers. Most of them are not as censorious as the NYT on HBD issues.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    The NYT would never print Steve. They stopped printing Razib when they learned he had similar views.

    There’s a slight overlap, but not much.

  81. @George
    Ship hulls and water are inanimate. The problem is how you use state violence to enforce the US border. At the current time, there is no desire to use force to stop people from crossing the border or even deport them.

    At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like. This is the cleaned up version, I can't find the raw video anymore.

    Egyptian Guards Shoot Palestinian Trying To Leave Gaza
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVJzhjdki6I

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Corvinus, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Reg Cæsar

    Libertarian idiocy. If the borders were governed by market forces, the category of immigrant would disappear. There would only be owners and tenants. Trespassers would be shot or die in the desert or on the high seas. There would be no Title VII, no due process, no public roads, and no helpful bilingual ICE agents to ask if you need insulin or have a heart condition or if you were sold to the guy calling himself your father.

    Remove the State, and the People will draw their own borders PDQ. When the State stops enforcing the borders I should be free to stop paying the taxes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @The Anti-Gnostic


    Libertarian idiocy.
     
    There is nothing libertarian about subsidized immigration.

    If anything, we should sell residence permits. Say, for $300,000 apiece. They can always take out a mortgage.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  82. Lot says:
    @Lot
    Steve, a very bright anonymous academic has a medium account and has written two very worthy articles:

    1. A summary of Jewish IQ research that is more up to date than the best prior one (by Greg Cochran).

    2. A long, devastating takedown of Eric Turkheimer.

    There’s also a third article about tax opinion polling I didn’t look at yet.

    All are here:

    https://medium.com/@cremieux

    A sample of 2:

    “Eric Nathan Turkheimer, the Hugh Scott Hamilton Professor of Psychology at the University of Virginia, is much more likely to be a meretricious fraud promoting skullduggery than he is to be a scientist. He has committed himself to the misrepresentation of science, its history, and the actors within it, for clearly ideological reasons. His scientific raison d’être has already been declared, and it is not only unscientific but anti-scientific. In this piece, I elaborate and substantiate this claim, showing that Turkheimer has produced weak research, knowingly misrepresented findings, and treated himself to statistical liberties that would be unacceptable across the political divide. He has done this and more for the purpose of striking at the credibility of scholars with whom he disagrees for ideological reasons.”

    Replies: @Lot, @res

    Hmm, I think he may have one item wrong in the Jewish IQ article. He quotes Nisbett saying AJs score 10 points worse than nonAJ whites, who in turn cites Lynn 1991.

    However, my memory of reading the 1972 project talent article was the difference was a lot smaller than that.

    I can’t access the 1972 paywalled article anymore, however Dunkel has a table with the results, and it shows about a 1/6 of a SD AJ deficit, resulting in a 3D visuospatial AJ subtest IQ of about 97.5, not 90.

    • Replies: @res
    @Lot

    I see the results you quote in Table 5 of https://openpsych.net/paper/22
    I'm not sure how to relate that to what I see below.

    The 1972 project talent article is available on libgen. Here is the reference from the link above:
    Bachman, M. E. (1972). Patterns of mental abilities: Ethnic, socioeconomic, and sex differences.
    American Educational Research Journal, 9, 1-12.

    Relevant text:


    Ninety percent of the total variance was accounted for by the main effects and interactions of the variables (Table 3). Sex accounted for a much larger proportion of the total variance than did either ethnicity or SES. Sex was significantly (p<.001) related to both the shape and the level of the patterns. The relationship of sex to the shape of the patterns accounted for 69% of the total variance. Females received higher mean scores on ENG, PSA, and MEM, and males received higher mean scores on VKN, MAT, and VIS (Table 2). The relationship of sex to the level of the patterns was considered to be unimportant as it accounted for .00 of the total variance when rounded to two significant figures.

    Ethnicity, the only other variable showing a substantial effect on the patterns, accounted for 13% of the total variance: 9% associated with shape and 4% associated with level. The pattern of mental abilities of the Jewish-whites was characterized by high mean scores on VKN and MAT and low mean scores on VIS and MEM (Table 2). The pattern of mental abilities of the Orientals was characterized by a high mean score on MAT; little difference was noted among their mean scores on the other mental ability factors. Negroes received higher mean scores on PSA and MEM than on the other factors; their mean scores on the other factors did not differ from each other to any great extent. There was little variation among the mean scores on the six mental ability factors for the non-Jewish-whites; this was expected as the factor scores had been standardized on a sample that was predominantly non-Jewish-white. A Scheff6 test revealed that the average level of the pattern of mental abilities of the Negroes (47.9) was significantly lower (p<.01) than the average level of the patterns of mental abilities of the other ethnic groups (Jewish-whites-51.9; non-Jewish-whites-51.2; and Orientals-52.0).
     

    The real meat is in the tables and figures though. Looking at Table 2 we see many interesting group differences laid out. Here is an attempt to replicate the meat of that table.

    Group/Test   VKN ENG   MAT   VIS    PSA   MEM
    Jewish            57.1   50.8    58.6   46.0   51.0   47.8
    White             51.9   51.1     52.1    51.8    49.5   50.9
    Negro            46.0   47.5    47.3    45.1    50.9   50.4
    Oriental        49.0   52.5   59.1     49.4   50.3    51.6
    Male              53.7    40.9   63.9    54.5   49.1    44.3
    Female          48.3   60.0   44.6    41.7   51.7     56.0
     
    Description of the tests.

    The six mental ability factors examined were: Verbal Knowledges (VKN)--.a general factor, but primarily a measure of general information; English Language (ENG)--a measure of grammar and language useage; Mathematics (MAT)-a measure of high school mathematics with a minimum of computation; Visual Reasoning (VIS)-a measure of reasoning with spatial forms; Perceptual Speed and Accuracy (PSA)-a measure of visual-motor coordination under speeded conditions; and Memory (MEM)--a measure of short-term recall of verbal symbols.
     
    I'm not sure how they derived the 10 point difference (100 point IQ scale) for spatial, but it seems plausible given the values in the table above.

    Replies: @Lot

  83. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.
     
    This sounds like socialism to me - the labor theory of value. According to market theory, everyone makes what the market is willing to pay them. If the market is willing to pay someone who "produces nothing" $350/hr for his talents and someone else who makes widgets $20/hr, then that's the right price for their services - maybe there are lots of people who can do the $20/hr job but the talents needed to do the $350/hr job are in shorter supply.

    So what you are advocating is a sort of socialism combined with nationalism. You might call it National Socialism. I think I've seen this movie already.

    Also note that in any place where they decide to get rid of "parasites" instead of the workers getting richer they got even poorer - it turns out that "parasites" actually serve some valuable function so that's why we have them in the 1st place.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lot, @AnotherDad

    The market doesn’t certify that they actually do anything, just that they suckered someone or got a sweetheart deal from them. “Anger management” courses are meaningless unscientific tripe and their proctors make plenty of money for doing nothing. Homeopathy is still around because it is profitable.
    Our elites are stupid people, clueless inheritors, the proverbial third generation that cannot retain the family wealth. There’s more than enough gentiles in that group to moot the “you know who else liked eating vegetables?” schtick.

  84. @Cagey Beast
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Almost every tour of an historic building I remember mentioned an improvement added after a fire in 1640, 1890 or whenever. That seems to be the rule, rather than the exception. In that sense, this ruling by the French Senate is exceptional but it's nevertheless correct.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    In 1640 or 1890 the improvements were improvements. Everyone knows what’s waiting for the wings here and it would not be a improvement.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  85. Lot says:
    @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.
     
    This sounds like socialism to me - the labor theory of value. According to market theory, everyone makes what the market is willing to pay them. If the market is willing to pay someone who "produces nothing" $350/hr for his talents and someone else who makes widgets $20/hr, then that's the right price for their services - maybe there are lots of people who can do the $20/hr job but the talents needed to do the $350/hr job are in shorter supply.

    So what you are advocating is a sort of socialism combined with nationalism. You might call it National Socialism. I think I've seen this movie already.

    Also note that in any place where they decide to get rid of "parasites" instead of the workers getting richer they got even poorer - it turns out that "parasites" actually serve some valuable function so that's why we have them in the 1st place.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lot, @AnotherDad

    The problem is AD is conflating “taxation and elite extraction.”

    He’s right we have a bloated public sector. But if finance wasn’t adding value, why in the competition between nations is it always there in successful nations?

    At the same time, market wage outcomes feel unfair to me, and making elites pay most taxes seems a fair way to correct this (with taxes themselves much lower but also more progressive and more focused on unearned income such as rents and inheritances, and also pollution and luxury goods. )

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Lot


    market wage outcomes feel unfair to me,
     
    Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am. MY market wage outcome I feel just fine about.

    Honestly, I don't profess to understand markets. I sit on my ass and make more than someone who heaves cement blocks all day. I complete a matter and present the client with a little folder of papers and it costs as much as a nice new car or what some schnook at Wal-Mart makes in a year. OTOH, when I was a kid, sometimes the price of eggs was 29 cents/dozen or less than it cost to produce them. Markets are impersonal - they don't follow any logic or fairness.

    Replies: @Lot

    , @SimpleSong
    @Lot

    It's true that all advanced economies have advanced financial sectors, but that doesn't mean that the chunk of the US economy involved in finance isn't 1.) too large and 2.) overpaid. Finance is a much larger piece of the US economy than in other advanced industrial nations (with the exception of places like Luxembourg, Switzerland, and possibly Britain...) Given that such a large chunk of the economy is devoted towards allocating capital, do you believe that the U.S. does a better job at allocating capital than, say, Denmark? Personally, I wouldn't. I don't recall Denmark having a massive housing bubble and subsequent crash caused by Wall Street dumbassery.

    Here's an alternative explanation for why finance is bloated:

    1.) the US dollar has become the world's reserve currency due to our victories in WWII and the Cold War. Our most valuable export, somewhat amazingly, is green pictures of Benjamin Franklin that foreigners trade for real stuff and put in central bank vaults never to see the light of day. (Boeing airplanes and soybeans and stuff are like a very distant second) The finance sector acts as an intermediary for our most important export and skims some off the top.

    2.) Economic stimulus is no longer done with Keynsian spending programs but rather injections of capital into the economy through things like quantitative easing, cutting interest rates to zero, etc. That money gets injected into the economy via banks and they skim some off the top.

    tl,dr; it's possible to have too much of a good thing.

    Replies: @Lot

  86. @ben tillman
    @Ozymandias

    At least it's been nice to know ya.

    I think of those 29 sailors frequently in the context of immigration. Those lost lives were part of what we put into this country, and every immigrant gets an equal share of it without investing a ************* thing in it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Ben, if you watch the video, one of my favorites, wait until the end when the list of names and places of origin are shown – mostly they are from right around the Great Lakes, all white men. It was truly the America of American Dad’s comment above.

    “And all that remains is the faces and the names
    of the wives and the sons and the daughters.”

  87. @David
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Freeman Dyson argues that the sinking of the Titanic was a good thing in that transatlantic liners were both quickly increasing in size and competing on transatlantic speed.

    Seeing as how it was just a matter of time before one of those big ships crashed into an iceberg, and the longer it took the bigger the ship was likely to be, the sooner the better.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    To me it’d sure have been better if that first one WAS a smaller ship, and there were enough lifeboats and the Mayday was sent and received quickly to vessels closer by. The lesson would still have been learned, right?

    Radar was a long time into the future, though, so speed and lack of good reports were the biggest factors, I guess.

  88. Lot says:
    @J.Ross
    @Lot

    Who are these "average elites"? Douglas Murray rubbished the possible effectiveness of replacement without breaking "respectable" character. I have trouble believing that anybody believes this would work, especially true elites. What they believe is that Europe is evil and deserves to be erased, and that automation will moot the question of replacement.

    Replies: @Lot

    My point is: don’t overestimate the knowledge or intelligence of the people running the country.

    The Kochs are about as elite as it gets. And they love Malcolm Gladwell.

    Also highly popular among rich businessmen are Ayn Rand and Thomas Friedman.

    Now at the very top of the elite class they get smarter, certainly Gates, Buffet, Zuck, Bezos, Ellison all have huge IQs.

    But the mass elite, people in the top 1% of income, wealth, or political or social influence mostly know nothing at all about demographic trends. If you asked them something basic like the black and asian share of the US population, they mostly wouldn’t know.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Lot

    When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn't that really them commanding the peasants to read him? Bill Gates endorsed this awful pop-math book and I can't imagine he's unaware of the problems with it.

    Replies: @Lot

  89. @Lot
    @J.Ross

    My point is: don’t overestimate the knowledge or intelligence of the people running the country.

    The Kochs are about as elite as it gets. And they love Malcolm Gladwell.

    Also highly popular among rich businessmen are Ayn Rand and Thomas Friedman.

    Now at the very top of the elite class they get smarter, certainly Gates, Buffet, Zuck, Bezos, Ellison all have huge IQs.

    But the mass elite, people in the top 1% of income, wealth, or political or social influence mostly know nothing at all about demographic trends. If you asked them something basic like the black and asian share of the US population, they mostly wouldn’t know.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him? Bill Gates endorsed this awful pop-math book and I can’t imagine he’s unaware of the problems with it.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @J.Ross

    “When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him?”

    Sometimes. That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    But the rich corporate guy I know that loves Friedman sees me as a fellow petty-elite. I started to mention how low an opinion I have of Friedman and I saw in his face I was going to hurt his feelings if I continued.

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @J.Ross

  90. @Lot
    @Jack D

    The problem is AD is conflating “taxation and elite extraction.”

    He’s right we have a bloated public sector. But if finance wasn’t adding value, why in the competition between nations is it always there in successful nations?

    At the same time, market wage outcomes feel unfair to me, and making elites pay most taxes seems a fair way to correct this (with taxes themselves much lower but also more progressive and more focused on unearned income such as rents and inheritances, and also pollution and luxury goods. )

    Replies: @Jack D, @SimpleSong

    market wage outcomes feel unfair to me,

    Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am. MY market wage outcome I feel just fine about.

    Honestly, I don’t profess to understand markets. I sit on my ass and make more than someone who heaves cement blocks all day. I complete a matter and present the client with a little folder of papers and it costs as much as a nice new car or what some schnook at Wal-Mart makes in a year. OTOH, when I was a kid, sometimes the price of eggs was 29 cents/dozen or less than it cost to produce them. Markets are impersonal – they don’t follow any logic or fairness.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jack D

    “Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am.”

    You might want to leave a little margin of comfort, maybe $30,000 above your AGI, before the new soak the rich tax starts.

    I can say though my argument to tax unearned income more than labor income applies to me directly.

    I look at my taxes at the end of the year and see all my hard labor is getting taxed at 40% marginal rate. And then I make a fair amount doing absolutely nothing in passive investment income and growing home equity, and that is taxed at 0, 15% or 20%. I’m too young to retire, but I certainly will do so earlier because of our dumb rentier-biased system.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

  91. @Chrisnonymous
    @George


    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by... Adam Smith’s invisible hand.
     
    America: goosed by the Invisible Hand.


    or, for Steve's readers in Japan...

    Open borders: enforced by Adam Smith's Invisible Kancho!

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Yes, good of you to bring up Japan, the backward and bitterly lamented wasteland which proves that open borders are an economic necessity.

  92. @Anonymous
    The *REAL* point, which must be understood to gauge the situation, is the realisation that the Economist run Deep State which runs the West - forget the political puppet show as an irrelevant sound and fury joke - is working tirelessly and ceaselessly to abolish all immigration restrictions whatsoever in the west. And of course, The Economist *always* gets its way.

    The further, unavoidable and inevitable realisation is that, to put it bluntly, The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Lockean Proviso

    The further, unavoidable and inevitable realisation is that, to put it bluntly, The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.

    Rubbish. I’m quite sure they don’t want rich white people to vanish. They are after all mostly rich white people themselves.

    They don’t care what happens to poor white people, but then rich people never did care about poor people. Rich white people do not consider poor white people to be members of the same species.

    And they don’t support Open Borders on ideological grounds. They support Open Borders because those rich white people believe that Open Borders will make rich white people even richer and more powerful.

    The most dangerous enemies of our civilisation are those rich white people.

  93. Lot says:
    @Jack D
    @Lot


    market wage outcomes feel unfair to me,
     
    Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am. MY market wage outcome I feel just fine about.

    Honestly, I don't profess to understand markets. I sit on my ass and make more than someone who heaves cement blocks all day. I complete a matter and present the client with a little folder of papers and it costs as much as a nice new car or what some schnook at Wal-Mart makes in a year. OTOH, when I was a kid, sometimes the price of eggs was 29 cents/dozen or less than it cost to produce them. Markets are impersonal - they don't follow any logic or fairness.

    Replies: @Lot

    “Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am.”

    You might want to leave a little margin of comfort, maybe $30,000 above your AGI, before the new soak the rich tax starts.

    I can say though my argument to tax unearned income more than labor income applies to me directly.

    I look at my taxes at the end of the year and see all my hard labor is getting taxed at 40% marginal rate. And then I make a fair amount doing absolutely nothing in passive investment income and growing home equity, and that is taxed at 0, 15% or 20%. I’m too young to retire, but I certainly will do so earlier because of our dumb rentier-biased system.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Lot

    Too many retirees for the system to change. Basically, the US (and most of the other advanced countries) has a relatively huge "minor aristocracy". They don't really have that great of incomes, but they're not having to do much to get them. It sucked saving up the down payments for your rental properties, or contributing to your 401K, or putting up with your relatives until you finally get control of the family business. But once the mortgages are paid off, or the value of your investments reaches "critical mass", or "huh, none of the kids want to take over in the family business, I guess I'll rent out the farm/store/factory", it's not so bad.
    And old people, not having to work, have nothing better to do than fight anyone who tries to change things in a way that might cost them money.

  94. Lot says:
    @J.Ross
    @Lot

    When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn't that really them commanding the peasants to read him? Bill Gates endorsed this awful pop-math book and I can't imagine he's unaware of the problems with it.

    Replies: @Lot

    “When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him?”

    Sometimes. That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    But the rich corporate guy I know that loves Friedman sees me as a fellow petty-elite. I started to mention how low an opinion I have of Friedman and I saw in his face I was going to hurt his feelings if I continued.

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Lot


    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.
     
    As for [Bernie Sanders | Hillary Clinton | Joe Biden | Eric SwallWell | Camel A. Harris | Apple Core E Booker T. Washington | Al Sharpton | Rachel Maddog | Brika Mirror Zhen Ski + Scab Jarborogh] , if you don’t think [her|his|theirs|zeez|weez|Mr. Freeze's] followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    You haven't narrowed the range of inquiry much Lot.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Lot


    That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.
     
    The Kochs have Aspergers. It might not have manifested itself without great wealth. But the Kochs are at least as spergy as the average Jewish university professor.

    Combine tunnel vision, an echo chamber, inherited wealth, and a life of luxury, and you get the Kochs.
    , @J.Ross
    @Lot

    At least when Ayn was still alive she took care of her followers.

  95. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    — these global elites for all their noise, are overwhelmingly parasites. They are government, finance, law, academia, media–i.e. “overhead”. They don’t produce what they need, they make a living off the production of white people in white nations through taxation and elite extraction.
     
    This sounds like socialism to me - the labor theory of value. According to market theory, everyone makes what the market is willing to pay them. If the market is willing to pay someone who "produces nothing" $350/hr for his talents and someone else who makes widgets $20/hr, then that's the right price for their services - maybe there are lots of people who can do the $20/hr job but the talents needed to do the $350/hr job are in shorter supply.

    So what you are advocating is a sort of socialism combined with nationalism. You might call it National Socialism. I think I've seen this movie already.

    Also note that in any place where they decide to get rid of "parasites" instead of the workers getting richer they got even poorer - it turns out that "parasites" actually serve some valuable function so that's why we have them in the 1st place.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lot, @AnotherDad

    This sounds like socialism to me …

    Jack, my point isn’t exactly rocket science to comprehend so i assume you simply do not want to comprehend it.

    Government, finance, for that matter, the military, the police, prisons, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. etc. are not creating wealth, nor are they things that people actually want to consume. They are ancillary non-productive services that people require once there is the production of wealth. (Yes, they are each a bit different, i’m not trying to drill down into each one.)

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer–and the Illinois farmer, and the Wisconsin dairyman, and the Michigan auto maker, the Pennsylvannia steel maker and the Ohio jet engine engineer, and the Texas oil man, and the Washington aerospace engineer, and the California … ok, never mind.

    In short:
    America is not rich because of Wall Street, Wall Street is rich because of America.
    America is not rich because of Washington, Washington is rich because of America.

    Whack America down to one tenth it’s size and … Washington and Wall Street would suddenly become a *lot* poorer. Likewise replace America’s white population with blacks and … Washington and Wall Street would be a lot poorer. These places do not produce anything they take a cut of the American economy and suddenly there would be a whole lot less money sloshing around. Suddenly that genius K-street lobbyist would not be “worth” $1000 an hour.

    None of this is difficult to comprehend.

    This isn’t to say a bunch of these people aren’t sharp or capable. But they are rich, because they are doing elite extraction on top of a big huge rich nation with decent land, with a highly capable and productive white population. Move these very same people to do finance and government in say … Botswana and suddenly for all their genius they are not longer so “productive” … because they aren’t actually producing anything, they are taking a cut.

    And my point is that if separation came and a whole lot of the United States separated off to be the nationalist “USA Classic”–ex. say along the lines of Trump-Clinton vote–then although the folks destined for “United States of Rainbow” contains a lot of people with high-incomes right now they would have dramatically lower incomes tomorrow, because their incomes are not based on producing anything that anyone in the world actually wants to consume, but rather because they had been doing elite extraction on top of big rich white nation … which is no longer theirs! And–as i claimed–since they aren’t generally dolts a whole lot of them–if push came to shove–would have a rethink on joining an open-borders rainbow globotopia and decide “uh … um … maybe i’ll just stick with the deplorable white guys.”

    • Agree: SimpleSong
    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @AnotherDad

    Oh c'mon, you know perfectly well that Jack D understands your conceptual point. He's just having a breakdown because he knows that you know that he knows that you know that the parasitical class as usual contains an astonishingly high number of Our Best Friends Forever.

    And we can't have people knowing that.

    , @SimpleSong
    @AnotherDad

    A couple of things you have to understand about JackD:

    1.) He hasn't figured out that price and value are not the same things. What is the value of a diamond to an individual? Essentially nothing--you can live without a diamond quite easily . But they are very pricey. What is the value of potable water? Extremely high, since you will quickly die without it. How much does water cost? Not very much. Price does not equal value to an individual, and the price of something certainly does not reflect value to a society.

    He constantly argues that because the price of one's labor is high the value of one's labor to society is also high. That is a non-sequitur. It also must be psychologically quite crippling for JackD to believe this, as I am sure he does not make as much money as prominent pornographers such as Larry Flynt (RIP). How can JackD live with himself knowing that his value to society is but a small fraction of a moderately successful porno mag publisher?

    2.) He thinks that any government interventions that put a thumb on a scale to shift the price of something closer to the value of something is immoral and the first step on the slippery slope to communism, gulags, etc.

    Apparently despite being a lawyer JackD is unfamiliar with the existence of the patent office. Long ago some dead white dudes figured out that new inventions often had immense value to society, but inventors would generally not be paid for their inventions as they could be freely copied. Price did not align with value. Hence, they used the law to put a thumb on the scale to try to align value and price slightly better. Of course this is only one of many, many examples of the government attempting to align pro-social behaviors with economic rewards. In fact every government everywhere has always done this. Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn't, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.

    3.) He is blissfully unaware of the labor market distortions caused by extremely large and long running trade deficits, which the US has sustained for, well, many people's entire lifetime as Asia has industrialized. To summarize: people in credentialed service industries and finance get overpaid, people in manufacturing get global market rates. I know some Japanese surgeons and they are all excellent and they all make far less than I do. Japan also has fewer lawyers, that make less on average. They have fewer finance droids, that make less on average. Their teachers make less despite producing better outcomes (although that is an HBD issue primarily.)

    The long running US trade deficit is a result of policy decisions. The inflation of the salaries of American doctors, lawyers, and teachers, compared to the rest of the world, is due to a policy decision. So don't give me this bunkum about how, shucks, it's crazy how much money I make, but I guess the invisible hand wills it...

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @AnotherDad


    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer
     
    If the Iowa farmer goes into debt to plant this season, with the help of subsidies and price supports, his claim that Wall Street and Washington are unnecessary is a little, shall we say, nuanced.

    Check out the 1938 and 1940 elections if you think farmers don't have various, and varying, views on these matters.

    Replies: @Jack D

  96. @Travis
    @Reg Cæsar

    this would greatly increase the demand for green card holders at the expense of citizens.
    The average citizen would go begging , unable to find employment as all the firms and individuals would hire non-citizens. Instead of hiring the current crew that landscapes our property for about $12 an hour we would have to replace them with foreigners earning $20 an hour to avoid paying the Americans $50 an hour.

    it would be far easier to increase the fees we currently charge firms for each H1b worker. Obama actually doubled the fees firms must pay to hire an H1b worker. The H1B visa petition application fee paid to USCIS for new and extensions to be increased by $4000 USD and the L1 visa application fee to increase by $4,500 USD for employers in 2015.
    https://redbus2us.com/news-h1b-and-l1-fee-to-go-up-by-4000-and-4500-until-year-2025/

    100,000 foreign workers are brought to the US on the H-1B visa and are allowed to stay for up to six years. There are currently 750,000 H-1B visa foreign workers in the US

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    You have the worst reading comprehension of any commenter I’ve seen here in, what?, ten years of Steve taking comments. I explicitly wrote that we should raise the minimum wage for foreigners, not Americans. And somehow you interpret that as raising it for Americans and not for foreigners.

    Go back and sue your high school.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Raising minimum wages for foreigners, particularly H-1B recipients, and using a sliding local scale based on apartment rents and other living costs and also requiring Teamsters level or better health care for them and all dependents would be a splendid idea. I noticed Travis dropped the ball on that idea.


    It would become impossible to use H-1B labor in the By Area or NYC, for instance.


    It would however make Overland Park, KS an even more attractive place to employ them and we would be faced with the constant White Castle smell of Indian eateries all over town. Even though we actually don't have White Castle any more.

    Oh well. maybe it will help decuck Johnson County and we will get a better brand of local politico.
    On second thought, probably not.

  97. @guest
    The Ship of State metaphor, which far as I know is borrowed from Plato, is usually about who or what makes the best navigator. Democracy is the Ship of Fools; the best captain is the Philosopher King, etc. Naval architecture is taken for granted. Generic Abstract Ship #1 will do.

    Not taking design for granted is an interesting twist. Forget the captain, who could be a saint or a madman (or both). Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant? At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a 'berg, the "unsinkable" craft remains as advertised.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @donut

    Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant?

    Aren’t you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative to existing governmental configurations?

    At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a ‘berg, the “unsinkable” craft remains as advertised.

    If you sink one of the fifty states, the other forty-nine survive, no?

    It didn’t work the last time, but what if we propose a new twist? What if we posit a two-state solution? One red, the other blue?

    Good for us, but bad for Steve Sailer.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    "Aren't you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative"

    Not that I recall. But for what it's worth, anti-federalists were proven justified in their criticisms and the Constitution definitely failed. I mean, in that it not only ceased to be followed but led to civil war. Or at least couldn't prevent it.

    Not that the Articles wouldn't have failed too. Actually, they did in a way since they allowed themselves rather easily to be replaced by the coup in Philadelphia.

    , @Anon87
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Did you happen to see Colin Quinn's stand-up special on CNN (I know, I know, but don't hold the channel against him): Red State, Blue State?

  98. @George
    Ship hulls and water are inanimate. The problem is how you use state violence to enforce the US border. At the current time, there is no desire to use force to stop people from crossing the border or even deport them.

    At the extreme, at the Egypt Gaza border, this is what border enforcement looks like. This is the cleaned up version, I can't find the raw video anymore.

    Egyptian Guards Shoot Palestinian Trying To Leave Gaza
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVJzhjdki6I

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Corvinus, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Reg Cæsar

    One reason the open borders politicians are successful is that open borders are enforced by economics and Adam Smith’s invisible hand.

    His invisible hand predated the welfare state. Without that, many, perhaps most, immigrants would fail, and return home.

    That’s what happened in the 19th century.

  99. @Lot
    @J.Ross

    “When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him?”

    Sometimes. That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    But the rich corporate guy I know that loves Friedman sees me as a fellow petty-elite. I started to mention how low an opinion I have of Friedman and I saw in his face I was going to hurt his feelings if I continued.

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @J.Ross

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    As for [Bernie Sanders | Hillary Clinton | Joe Biden | Eric SwallWell | Camel A. Harris | Apple Core E Booker T. Washington | Al Sharpton | Rachel Maddog | Brika Mirror Zhen Ski + Scab Jarborogh] , if you don’t think [her|his|theirs|zeez|weez|Mr. Freeze’s] followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    You haven’t narrowed the range of inquiry much Lot.

  100. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @George

    Libertarian idiocy. If the borders were governed by market forces, the category of immigrant would disappear. There would only be owners and tenants. Trespassers would be shot or die in the desert or on the high seas. There would be no Title VII, no due process, no public roads, and no helpful bilingual ICE agents to ask if you need insulin or have a heart condition or if you were sold to the guy calling himself your father.

    Remove the State, and the People will draw their own borders PDQ. When the State stops enforcing the borders I should be free to stop paying the taxes.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Libertarian idiocy.

    There is nothing libertarian about subsidized immigration.

    If anything, we should sell residence permits. Say, for $300,000 apiece. They can always take out a mortgage.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar

    That's too cheap.

  101. @Lot
    @J.Ross

    “When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him?”

    Sometimes. That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    But the rich corporate guy I know that loves Friedman sees me as a fellow petty-elite. I started to mention how low an opinion I have of Friedman and I saw in his face I was going to hurt his feelings if I continued.

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @J.Ross

    That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    The Kochs have Aspergers. It might not have manifested itself without great wealth. But the Kochs are at least as spergy as the average Jewish university professor.

    Combine tunnel vision, an echo chamber, inherited wealth, and a life of luxury, and you get the Kochs.

  102. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D



    This sounds like socialism to me ...
     
    Jack, my point isn't exactly rocket science to comprehend so i assume you simply do not want to comprehend it.

    Government, finance, for that matter, the military, the police, prisons, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. etc. are not creating wealth, nor are they things that people actually want to consume. They are ancillary non-productive services that people require once there is the production of wealth. (Yes, they are each a bit different, i'm not trying to drill down into each one.)

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer--and the Illinois farmer, and the Wisconsin dairyman, and the Michigan auto maker, the Pennsylvannia steel maker and the Ohio jet engine engineer, and the Texas oil man, and the Washington aerospace engineer, and the California ... ok, never mind.

    In short:
    America is not rich because of Wall Street, Wall Street is rich because of America.
    America is not rich because of Washington, Washington is rich because of America.

    Whack America down to one tenth it's size and ... Washington and Wall Street would suddenly become a *lot* poorer. Likewise replace America's white population with blacks and ... Washington and Wall Street would be a lot poorer. These places do not produce anything they take a cut of the American economy and suddenly there would be a whole lot less money sloshing around. Suddenly that genius K-street lobbyist would not be "worth" $1000 an hour.

    None of this is difficult to comprehend.

    This isn't to say a bunch of these people aren't sharp or capable. But they are rich, because they are doing elite extraction on top of a big huge rich nation with decent land, with a highly capable and productive white population. Move these very same people to do finance and government in say ... Botswana and suddenly for all their genius they are not longer so "productive" ... because they aren't actually producing anything, they are taking a cut.


    And my point is that if separation came and a whole lot of the United States separated off to be the nationalist "USA Classic"--ex. say along the lines of Trump-Clinton vote--then although the folks destined for "United States of Rainbow" contains a lot of people with high-incomes right now they would have dramatically lower incomes tomorrow, because their incomes are not based on producing anything that anyone in the world actually wants to consume, but rather because they had been doing elite extraction on top of big rich white nation ... which is no longer theirs! And--as i claimed--since they aren't generally dolts a whole lot of them--if push came to shove--would have a rethink on joining an open-borders rainbow globotopia and decide "uh ... um ... maybe i'll just stick with the deplorable white guys."

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @SimpleSong, @Reg Cæsar

    Oh c’mon, you know perfectly well that Jack D understands your conceptual point. He’s just having a breakdown because he knows that you know that he knows that you know that the parasitical class as usual contains an astonishingly high number of Our Best Friends Forever.

    And we can’t have people knowing that.

  103. @guest
    The Ship of State metaphor, which far as I know is borrowed from Plato, is usually about who or what makes the best navigator. Democracy is the Ship of Fools; the best captain is the Philosopher King, etc. Naval architecture is taken for granted. Generic Abstract Ship #1 will do.

    Not taking design for granted is an interesting twist. Forget the captain, who could be a saint or a madman (or both). Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant? At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a 'berg, the "unsinkable" craft remains as advertised.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @donut

    Don’t we already have a state where the capt. is irrelevant ?

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @donut

    We have a winner! (Comment that is, not CIC)

  104. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D



    This sounds like socialism to me ...
     
    Jack, my point isn't exactly rocket science to comprehend so i assume you simply do not want to comprehend it.

    Government, finance, for that matter, the military, the police, prisons, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. etc. are not creating wealth, nor are they things that people actually want to consume. They are ancillary non-productive services that people require once there is the production of wealth. (Yes, they are each a bit different, i'm not trying to drill down into each one.)

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer--and the Illinois farmer, and the Wisconsin dairyman, and the Michigan auto maker, the Pennsylvannia steel maker and the Ohio jet engine engineer, and the Texas oil man, and the Washington aerospace engineer, and the California ... ok, never mind.

    In short:
    America is not rich because of Wall Street, Wall Street is rich because of America.
    America is not rich because of Washington, Washington is rich because of America.

    Whack America down to one tenth it's size and ... Washington and Wall Street would suddenly become a *lot* poorer. Likewise replace America's white population with blacks and ... Washington and Wall Street would be a lot poorer. These places do not produce anything they take a cut of the American economy and suddenly there would be a whole lot less money sloshing around. Suddenly that genius K-street lobbyist would not be "worth" $1000 an hour.

    None of this is difficult to comprehend.

    This isn't to say a bunch of these people aren't sharp or capable. But they are rich, because they are doing elite extraction on top of a big huge rich nation with decent land, with a highly capable and productive white population. Move these very same people to do finance and government in say ... Botswana and suddenly for all their genius they are not longer so "productive" ... because they aren't actually producing anything, they are taking a cut.


    And my point is that if separation came and a whole lot of the United States separated off to be the nationalist "USA Classic"--ex. say along the lines of Trump-Clinton vote--then although the folks destined for "United States of Rainbow" contains a lot of people with high-incomes right now they would have dramatically lower incomes tomorrow, because their incomes are not based on producing anything that anyone in the world actually wants to consume, but rather because they had been doing elite extraction on top of big rich white nation ... which is no longer theirs! And--as i claimed--since they aren't generally dolts a whole lot of them--if push came to shove--would have a rethink on joining an open-borders rainbow globotopia and decide "uh ... um ... maybe i'll just stick with the deplorable white guys."

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @SimpleSong, @Reg Cæsar

    A couple of things you have to understand about JackD:

    1.) He hasn’t figured out that price and value are not the same things. What is the value of a diamond to an individual? Essentially nothing–you can live without a diamond quite easily . But they are very pricey. What is the value of potable water? Extremely high, since you will quickly die without it. How much does water cost? Not very much. Price does not equal value to an individual, and the price of something certainly does not reflect value to a society.

    He constantly argues that because the price of one’s labor is high the value of one’s labor to society is also high. That is a non-sequitur. It also must be psychologically quite crippling for JackD to believe this, as I am sure he does not make as much money as prominent pornographers such as Larry Flynt (RIP). How can JackD live with himself knowing that his value to society is but a small fraction of a moderately successful porno mag publisher?

    2.) He thinks that any government interventions that put a thumb on a scale to shift the price of something closer to the value of something is immoral and the first step on the slippery slope to communism, gulags, etc.

    Apparently despite being a lawyer JackD is unfamiliar with the existence of the patent office. Long ago some dead white dudes figured out that new inventions often had immense value to society, but inventors would generally not be paid for their inventions as they could be freely copied. Price did not align with value. Hence, they used the law to put a thumb on the scale to try to align value and price slightly better. Of course this is only one of many, many examples of the government attempting to align pro-social behaviors with economic rewards. In fact every government everywhere has always done this. Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn’t, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.

    3.) He is blissfully unaware of the labor market distortions caused by extremely large and long running trade deficits, which the US has sustained for, well, many people’s entire lifetime as Asia has industrialized. To summarize: people in credentialed service industries and finance get overpaid, people in manufacturing get global market rates. I know some Japanese surgeons and they are all excellent and they all make far less than I do. Japan also has fewer lawyers, that make less on average. They have fewer finance droids, that make less on average. Their teachers make less despite producing better outcomes (although that is an HBD issue primarily.)

    The long running US trade deficit is a result of policy decisions. The inflation of the salaries of American doctors, lawyers, and teachers, compared to the rest of the world, is due to a policy decision. So don’t give me this bunkum about how, shucks, it’s crazy how much money I make, but I guess the invisible hand wills it…

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @SimpleSong

    The problem with "value" is that it is highly subjective. Your values may not be my values. In a modern market system, the government sometimes interferes with prices in order to impose its values (e.g. put a heavy tax on cigarettes) but generally speaking this is not a good idea and should be limited to the most egregious cases because any deviation from market pricing is like static in the price signals that the market is sending and constitute a limit on personal freedom. If you mess with too many price signals, you get the Soviet Union where goods and services were allocated in a clearly inefficient way to everyone's detriment.

    But long before that you get sub-optimal outcomes because of issues like regulatory capture. The Founders said that copyrights should be for a "limited time" and thought that about 20 years was the proper balance between compensation for authors and the free flow of information, but the lobbyists from Disney think that a "limited time" means until the end of time minus 1 day and the lobbyists from Disney have bigger checkbooks than you or I. The patent system sounds great until you find out that it is mostly patent trolls and big corporations and patents for "business methods" - the chances that you as an individual citizen will be able to invent a better cloth loom and make money off of it the way the Founding Fathers imagined are close to nil.

    Socialists (including National Socialists) see no limit on this interference and often mess with things that they don't really understand. They declare that according to their value system, finance or law is "parasitic" and should be done away with, when they are necessary aspects of the efficient allocation of capital and the rule of law. It's as if someone gave you a car and you said, "I can save weight and get better gas mileage if I get rid of the air filter and chuck the spare tire. They are "parasitic" compared to the pistons which produce the real power in this car." This may even work for a little while but in the long run those things were put there by the designers for a good reason.

    Perfect market systems don't exist in the real world. Sure the US has made "policy decisions" that favor free trade and imports of manufactured goods and it's naturally easier to have free trade in goods vs. services. OTOH, it has made other decisions (tariffs, import quotas, trade agreements) that have actually prevented manufacturing from leaving the US to an even greater extent. Even absent these policy decisions, comparative advantage would have dictated that simple industries like garment sewing would migrate to 3rd world places like Bangladesh and high skilled industries like aircraft manufacture and movie production would stay here. The fact that government interference with a state of nature exists doesn't mean that the invisible hand doesn't still apply. Sure there are market distortions but the market still exists. And for me as an individual, I don't make those decisions so they are all "invisible hand" to me even if they are distorted by government policy.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @SimpleSong


    Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn’t, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.
     
    Murray Rothbard opposed patents but supported copyright. I thought there was a bit of a conflict of interest there.

    Replies: @Jack D

  105. res says:
    @Lot
    Steve, a very bright anonymous academic has a medium account and has written two very worthy articles:

    1. A summary of Jewish IQ research that is more up to date than the best prior one (by Greg Cochran).

    2. A long, devastating takedown of Eric Turkheimer.

    There’s also a third article about tax opinion polling I didn’t look at yet.

    All are here:

    https://medium.com/@cremieux

    A sample of 2:

    “Eric Nathan Turkheimer, the Hugh Scott Hamilton Professor of Psychology at the University of Virginia, is much more likely to be a meretricious fraud promoting skullduggery than he is to be a scientist. He has committed himself to the misrepresentation of science, its history, and the actors within it, for clearly ideological reasons. His scientific raison d’être has already been declared, and it is not only unscientific but anti-scientific. In this piece, I elaborate and substantiate this claim, showing that Turkheimer has produced weak research, knowingly misrepresented findings, and treated himself to statistical liberties that would be unacceptable across the political divide. He has done this and more for the purpose of striking at the credibility of scholars with whom he disagrees for ideological reasons.”

    Replies: @Lot, @res

    Good find. Thanks.

    Does anyone know about this calculation mentioned in the Turkheimer piece?

    The between-group heritability calculated via DeFries formula (which Turkheimer acts ignorant of) is at least 71–73% for the Jewish-white Gentile difference.

    I was able to find the DeFries formula in chapter 2 of https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Environment-Behavior-Implications-Educational/dp/B001U03EPW
    but have no idea where Crémieux got the numbers to plug into it.

    DeFries himelf used his equation to look at the B-W IQ difference with inconclusive results. See Equation (9) and pp. 10-11.

    P.S. I liked this bit from 2.

    Bad maths does not disturb Turkheimer if it comports with his ideology, which can be summarized as such:

    1. Opposition to findings that comport with a unidimensional view of cognitive ability;
    2. Opposition to high heritabilities;
    3. Opposition to the existence of genetic group differences;
    4. A dogmatic insistence that there is no genetic component to (select) group differences.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @res

    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.

    Hypo: all racism disappears and children are randomly assigned to non birth families at birth. How much do group IQ averages converge once the children each age 30? Nearly 30% seems unrealistically high.

    Replies: @res

  106. Lot says:
    @res
    @Lot

    Good find. Thanks.

    Does anyone know about this calculation mentioned in the Turkheimer piece?


    The between-group heritability calculated via DeFries formula (which Turkheimer acts ignorant of) is at least 71–73% for the Jewish-white Gentile difference.
     
    I was able to find the DeFries formula in chapter 2 of https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Environment-Behavior-Implications-Educational/dp/B001U03EPW
    but have no idea where Crémieux got the numbers to plug into it.

    DeFries himelf used his equation to look at the B-W IQ difference with inconclusive results. See Equation (9) and pp. 10-11.

    P.S. I liked this bit from 2.

    Bad maths does not disturb Turkheimer if it comports with his ideology, which can be summarized as such:

    1. Opposition to findings that comport with a unidimensional view of cognitive ability;
    2. Opposition to high heritabilities;
    3. Opposition to the existence of genetic group differences;
    4. A dogmatic insistence that there is no genetic component to (select) group differences.

     

    Replies: @Lot

    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.

    Hypo: all racism disappears and children are randomly assigned to non birth families at birth. How much do group IQ averages converge once the children each age 30? Nearly 30% seems unrealistically high.

    • Replies: @res
    @Lot


    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.
     
    Good thought, but I'm reluctant to make a comment so obviously traceable to me here on a different commenting platform.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.
     
    I think that is the correct interpretation. I have been tending to stick to a non-committal 50/50 until we get better evidence. I feel like I can make arguments for both under and over 50% (e.g. inner city black environments are really toxic IMHO, but harder to argue that for Jewish-European difference).

    Replies: @Lot

  107. @Lot
    @Jack D

    The problem is AD is conflating “taxation and elite extraction.”

    He’s right we have a bloated public sector. But if finance wasn’t adding value, why in the competition between nations is it always there in successful nations?

    At the same time, market wage outcomes feel unfair to me, and making elites pay most taxes seems a fair way to correct this (with taxes themselves much lower but also more progressive and more focused on unearned income such as rents and inheritances, and also pollution and luxury goods. )

    Replies: @Jack D, @SimpleSong

    It’s true that all advanced economies have advanced financial sectors, but that doesn’t mean that the chunk of the US economy involved in finance isn’t 1.) too large and 2.) overpaid. Finance is a much larger piece of the US economy than in other advanced industrial nations (with the exception of places like Luxembourg, Switzerland, and possibly Britain…) Given that such a large chunk of the economy is devoted towards allocating capital, do you believe that the U.S. does a better job at allocating capital than, say, Denmark? Personally, I wouldn’t. I don’t recall Denmark having a massive housing bubble and subsequent crash caused by Wall Street dumbassery.

    Here’s an alternative explanation for why finance is bloated:

    1.) the US dollar has become the world’s reserve currency due to our victories in WWII and the Cold War. Our most valuable export, somewhat amazingly, is green pictures of Benjamin Franklin that foreigners trade for real stuff and put in central bank vaults never to see the light of day. (Boeing airplanes and soybeans and stuff are like a very distant second) The finance sector acts as an intermediary for our most important export and skims some off the top.

    2.) Economic stimulus is no longer done with Keynsian spending programs but rather injections of capital into the economy through things like quantitative easing, cutting interest rates to zero, etc. That money gets injected into the economy via banks and they skim some off the top.

    tl,dr; it’s possible to have too much of a good thing.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @SimpleSong

    Wall Street gets away with a lot of fraud and borderline fraud behavior that should be illegal but isn’t. Better regulation and enforcement would cut the size of the sector.

    However, Denmark isn’t a good comparison. We export financial services, which is a clean and well paid industry. Imagine you grafted Luxembourg onto Belgium. They’d have an outsized financial sector too, even if it wasn’t the dominant industry. That’s how the USA is.

  108. res says:
    @Lot
    @Lot

    Hmm, I think he may have one item wrong in the Jewish IQ article. He quotes Nisbett saying AJs score 10 points worse than nonAJ whites, who in turn cites Lynn 1991.

    However, my memory of reading the 1972 project talent article was the difference was a lot smaller than that.

    I can’t access the 1972 paywalled article anymore, however Dunkel has a table with the results, and it shows about a 1/6 of a SD AJ deficit, resulting in a 3D visuospatial AJ subtest IQ of about 97.5, not 90.

    Replies: @res

    I see the results you quote in Table 5 of https://openpsych.net/paper/22
    I’m not sure how to relate that to what I see below.

    The 1972 project talent article is available on libgen. Here is the reference from the link above:
    Bachman, M. E. (1972). Patterns of mental abilities: Ethnic, socioeconomic, and sex differences.
    American Educational Research Journal, 9, 1-12.

    Relevant text:

    Ninety percent of the total variance was accounted for by the main effects and interactions of the variables (Table 3). Sex accounted for a much larger proportion of the total variance than did either ethnicity or SES. Sex was significantly (p<.001) related to both the shape and the level of the patterns. The relationship of sex to the shape of the patterns accounted for 69% of the total variance. Females received higher mean scores on ENG, PSA, and MEM, and males received higher mean scores on VKN, MAT, and VIS (Table 2). The relationship of sex to the level of the patterns was considered to be unimportant as it accounted for .00 of the total variance when rounded to two significant figures.

    Ethnicity, the only other variable showing a substantial effect on the patterns, accounted for 13% of the total variance: 9% associated with shape and 4% associated with level. The pattern of mental abilities of the Jewish-whites was characterized by high mean scores on VKN and MAT and low mean scores on VIS and MEM (Table 2). The pattern of mental abilities of the Orientals was characterized by a high mean score on MAT; little difference was noted among their mean scores on the other mental ability factors. Negroes received higher mean scores on PSA and MEM than on the other factors; their mean scores on the other factors did not differ from each other to any great extent. There was little variation among the mean scores on the six mental ability factors for the non-Jewish-whites; this was expected as the factor scores had been standardized on a sample that was predominantly non-Jewish-white. A Scheff6 test revealed that the average level of the pattern of mental abilities of the Negroes (47.9) was significantly lower (p<.01) than the average level of the patterns of mental abilities of the other ethnic groups (Jewish-whites-51.9; non-Jewish-whites-51.2; and Orientals-52.0).

    The real meat is in the tables and figures though. Looking at Table 2 we see many interesting group differences laid out. Here is an attempt to replicate the meat of that table.

    Group/Test   VKN ENG   MAT   VIS    PSA   MEM
    Jewish            57.1   50.8    58.6   46.0   51.0   47.8
    White             51.9   51.1     52.1    51.8    49.5   50.9
    Negro            46.0   47.5    47.3    45.1    50.9   50.4
    Oriental        49.0   52.5   59.1     49.4   50.3    51.6
    Male              53.7    40.9   63.9    54.5   49.1    44.3
    Female          48.3   60.0   44.6    41.7   51.7     56.0

    Description of the tests.

    The six mental ability factors examined were: Verbal Knowledges (VKN)–.a general factor, but primarily a measure of general information; English Language (ENG)–a measure of grammar and language useage; Mathematics (MAT)-a measure of high school mathematics with a minimum of computation; Visual Reasoning (VIS)-a measure of reasoning with spatial forms; Perceptual Speed and Accuracy (PSA)-a measure of visual-motor coordination under speeded conditions; and Memory (MEM)–a measure of short-term recall of verbal symbols.

    I’m not sure how they derived the 10 point difference (100 point IQ scale) for spatial, but it seems plausible given the values in the table above.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @res

    Dunkel’s myopia paper using the same data shows the difference in 3d vis scores to be about .15 with a SD of just under 1 for both the myopic and non myopic AJ v non AJ white groups. That also accorded with my memory of reading the 1972 paper a few months ago.

    Is there a free link somewhere? Possibly on Gwern’a site, which isn’t well indexed.

    Jews were often artisans like glass blowers, silversmiths, lens-makers. They didn’t need extreme VS ability for this, but decaying down to 90 compared to the mostly farmers around them seems unrealistic.

    Replies: @res

  109. Lot says:
    @SimpleSong
    @Lot

    It's true that all advanced economies have advanced financial sectors, but that doesn't mean that the chunk of the US economy involved in finance isn't 1.) too large and 2.) overpaid. Finance is a much larger piece of the US economy than in other advanced industrial nations (with the exception of places like Luxembourg, Switzerland, and possibly Britain...) Given that such a large chunk of the economy is devoted towards allocating capital, do you believe that the U.S. does a better job at allocating capital than, say, Denmark? Personally, I wouldn't. I don't recall Denmark having a massive housing bubble and subsequent crash caused by Wall Street dumbassery.

    Here's an alternative explanation for why finance is bloated:

    1.) the US dollar has become the world's reserve currency due to our victories in WWII and the Cold War. Our most valuable export, somewhat amazingly, is green pictures of Benjamin Franklin that foreigners trade for real stuff and put in central bank vaults never to see the light of day. (Boeing airplanes and soybeans and stuff are like a very distant second) The finance sector acts as an intermediary for our most important export and skims some off the top.

    2.) Economic stimulus is no longer done with Keynsian spending programs but rather injections of capital into the economy through things like quantitative easing, cutting interest rates to zero, etc. That money gets injected into the economy via banks and they skim some off the top.

    tl,dr; it's possible to have too much of a good thing.

    Replies: @Lot

    Wall Street gets away with a lot of fraud and borderline fraud behavior that should be illegal but isn’t. Better regulation and enforcement would cut the size of the sector.

    However, Denmark isn’t a good comparison. We export financial services, which is a clean and well paid industry. Imagine you grafted Luxembourg onto Belgium. They’d have an outsized financial sector too, even if it wasn’t the dominant industry. That’s how the USA is.

  110. res says:
    @Lot
    @res

    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.

    Hypo: all racism disappears and children are randomly assigned to non birth families at birth. How much do group IQ averages converge once the children each age 30? Nearly 30% seems unrealistically high.

    Replies: @res

    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.

    Good thought, but I’m reluctant to make a comment so obviously traceable to me here on a different commenting platform.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.

    I think that is the correct interpretation. I have been tending to stick to a non-committal 50/50 until we get better evidence. I feel like I can make arguments for both under and over 50% (e.g. inner city black environments are really toxic IMHO, but harder to argue that for Jewish-European difference).

    • Replies: @Lot
    @res

    “inner city black environments are really toxic IMHO”

    Inner city captures a wide range. Housing projects are really awful, but does that apply to all of the black South Side of Chicago?

    Relatedly: the black-white gap may be smaller in childhood due to different maturation rates.

    Then, starting by about 14, you have a higher black drop out, violent death, and institutionalization rate. This will effect the bottom of the distribution the most.

    So both childhood and adult testing could also be understating the eventual adult B-W gap in g.

  111. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAaPFFgCVwU

    Replies: @duncsbaby

  112. Lot says:
    @res
    @Lot

    I see the results you quote in Table 5 of https://openpsych.net/paper/22
    I'm not sure how to relate that to what I see below.

    The 1972 project talent article is available on libgen. Here is the reference from the link above:
    Bachman, M. E. (1972). Patterns of mental abilities: Ethnic, socioeconomic, and sex differences.
    American Educational Research Journal, 9, 1-12.

    Relevant text:


    Ninety percent of the total variance was accounted for by the main effects and interactions of the variables (Table 3). Sex accounted for a much larger proportion of the total variance than did either ethnicity or SES. Sex was significantly (p<.001) related to both the shape and the level of the patterns. The relationship of sex to the shape of the patterns accounted for 69% of the total variance. Females received higher mean scores on ENG, PSA, and MEM, and males received higher mean scores on VKN, MAT, and VIS (Table 2). The relationship of sex to the level of the patterns was considered to be unimportant as it accounted for .00 of the total variance when rounded to two significant figures.

    Ethnicity, the only other variable showing a substantial effect on the patterns, accounted for 13% of the total variance: 9% associated with shape and 4% associated with level. The pattern of mental abilities of the Jewish-whites was characterized by high mean scores on VKN and MAT and low mean scores on VIS and MEM (Table 2). The pattern of mental abilities of the Orientals was characterized by a high mean score on MAT; little difference was noted among their mean scores on the other mental ability factors. Negroes received higher mean scores on PSA and MEM than on the other factors; their mean scores on the other factors did not differ from each other to any great extent. There was little variation among the mean scores on the six mental ability factors for the non-Jewish-whites; this was expected as the factor scores had been standardized on a sample that was predominantly non-Jewish-white. A Scheff6 test revealed that the average level of the pattern of mental abilities of the Negroes (47.9) was significantly lower (p<.01) than the average level of the patterns of mental abilities of the other ethnic groups (Jewish-whites-51.9; non-Jewish-whites-51.2; and Orientals-52.0).
     

    The real meat is in the tables and figures though. Looking at Table 2 we see many interesting group differences laid out. Here is an attempt to replicate the meat of that table.

    Group/Test   VKN ENG   MAT   VIS    PSA   MEM
    Jewish            57.1   50.8    58.6   46.0   51.0   47.8
    White             51.9   51.1     52.1    51.8    49.5   50.9
    Negro            46.0   47.5    47.3    45.1    50.9   50.4
    Oriental        49.0   52.5   59.1     49.4   50.3    51.6
    Male              53.7    40.9   63.9    54.5   49.1    44.3
    Female          48.3   60.0   44.6    41.7   51.7     56.0
     
    Description of the tests.

    The six mental ability factors examined were: Verbal Knowledges (VKN)--.a general factor, but primarily a measure of general information; English Language (ENG)--a measure of grammar and language useage; Mathematics (MAT)-a measure of high school mathematics with a minimum of computation; Visual Reasoning (VIS)-a measure of reasoning with spatial forms; Perceptual Speed and Accuracy (PSA)-a measure of visual-motor coordination under speeded conditions; and Memory (MEM)--a measure of short-term recall of verbal symbols.
     
    I'm not sure how they derived the 10 point difference (100 point IQ scale) for spatial, but it seems plausible given the values in the table above.

    Replies: @Lot

    Dunkel’s myopia paper using the same data shows the difference in 3d vis scores to be about .15 with a SD of just under 1 for both the myopic and non myopic AJ v non AJ white groups. That also accorded with my memory of reading the 1972 paper a few months ago.

    Is there a free link somewhere? Possibly on Gwern’a site, which isn’t well indexed.

    Jews were often artisans like glass blowers, silversmiths, lens-makers. They didn’t need extreme VS ability for this, but decaying down to 90 compared to the mostly farmers around them seems unrealistic.

    • Replies: @res
    @Lot

    Go to libgen.io and search for the paper title in Scientific articles.

    I'm guessing Dunkel looked at finer grained subtests than those used in the 1972 paper.

    This excerpt from Dunkel supports that and also raises the issue of only looking at 12th graders:


    As stated in the quote by Lynn (2004), Backman (1972) analyzed data from Project Talent, which was a nationwide survey of multiple aspects of America’s youth including cognitive ability. However, unlike the quote implies Project Talent was not a nationwide survey of the abilities of 18 year olds. Project Talent was a nationwide survey of high school students; grades nine through 12. Inexplicably Backman (1972) only analyzed the data from the twelfth graders. Thus, roughly three quarters of the potential sample was not included. Backman (1972) further culled the sample to make the groups more equivalent in size and composition by both removing white non-Jewish participants and participants at the low or high end of socioeconomic status.

    Backman (1972) also did not measure what is properly understood as g. She factor analyzed 60 tests, the number of which and description of the procedures in the codebook suggests a large number were tests of knowledge on specific topics (e.g., photography). Eleven factors emerged of which six were used for further analysis. The factors used for further analysis were labeled verbal knowledge, English language, mathematics, visual reasoning, perceptual speed and accuracy, and memory. The factors not further analyzed included knowledge of hunting-fishing, color-foods, etiquette, and games and a factor called screening which identified illiterate and uncooperative participants.

    In comparing gentile and Jewish Whites, Backman (1972) found Jewish Whites scored higher in verbal knowledge and mathematics, but lower in visual reasoning and memory. The finding that Jews have higher g is often qualified by the findings of more specific abilities in which it appears Jews score especially high on verbal and mathematical tests, roughly equivalent on memory tests, and below average on mental rotation (Cochran, Hardy, & Harpending, 2006;Lynn, 2004). Thus Backman’s (1972) findings were consistent with the findings of these other studies. But, given the manner in which the sample was determined and the data analyzed it is thought that further elucidation may be achieved by a more extensive analysis. Thus one impetus for the current investigation was to reanalyze the Project Talent data using a larger sample and including analyses at a more molecular (i.e., individual tests) and molar (i.e., g) levels.
     

    That mentions 60 tests, while I only see 16 used by Dunkel.

    I suspect using the factor analysis vs. using individual subtests was a big part of the apparent difference in results. If I am interpreting Table 2 in Dunkel correctly, that Visualization in 3-Dimensions test is heavily g loaded.

    I tend to trust Backman more on group differences given that was the focus of that paper, but there are some methodological questions. From her paper:


    Data had originally been obtained from Project TALENT for a sample of 3,086 respondents: This included only those for whom information on all essential variables was available; since a large majority of the students were non-Jewish-white, data were obtained for only a 5% sample of that group. As there were only a small number of students at the extreme ends of the SES scale, it was not considered feasible to make comparisons of extreme SES groups. Also, although the SES distributions of the ethnic groups overlapped, the Jewishwhites tended to be displaced toward the upper end of the SES scale and the Negroes toward the lower end. To control for differences in SES the analysis was restricted to those in the middle range of the SES scale. The resulting sample of 2,925 students was divided into two groups: upper-middle SES and lower-middle SES, which covered 80-99 and 100-119 respectively on the SES scale.
     
    I wish she had given results for how much of the variance of the 60 cognitive tests was explained by each of the 11 (6 used) factors.

    One intriguing thing was Table 3 in Backman with an ANOVA showing the vast majority of the variance was accounted for by the 5 degrees of freedom associated with the sex x factor interaction terms.

  113. Lot says:
    @res
    @Lot


    I never heard of the De Fries formula so I cannot help. Maybe ask him? A new blogger can get lonely and discouraged.
     
    Good thought, but I'm reluctant to make a comment so obviously traceable to me here on a different commenting platform.

    I’d guess that between group adult IQ differences in the same country, absent substantially different levels of extreme deprivation, would be higher than 71-73% genetic, though I could be misunderstanding the question.
     
    I think that is the correct interpretation. I have been tending to stick to a non-committal 50/50 until we get better evidence. I feel like I can make arguments for both under and over 50% (e.g. inner city black environments are really toxic IMHO, but harder to argue that for Jewish-European difference).

    Replies: @Lot

    “inner city black environments are really toxic IMHO”

    Inner city captures a wide range. Housing projects are really awful, but does that apply to all of the black South Side of Chicago?

    Relatedly: the black-white gap may be smaller in childhood due to different maturation rates.

    Then, starting by about 14, you have a higher black drop out, violent death, and institutionalization rate. This will effect the bottom of the distribution the most.

    So both childhood and adult testing could also be understating the eventual adult B-W gap in g.

  114. @Anonymous
    The *REAL* point, which must be understood to gauge the situation, is the realisation that the Economist run Deep State which runs the West - forget the political puppet show as an irrelevant sound and fury joke - is working tirelessly and ceaselessly to abolish all immigration restrictions whatsoever in the west. And of course, The Economist *always* gets its way.

    The further, unavoidable and inevitable realisation is that, to put it bluntly, The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Lockean Proviso

    “The Economist urgently wants white people to vanish.”

    Maybe just the ones who don’t subscribe to The Economist and buy £10,000 watches or villas in Tuscany.

  115. @Cortes
    The EU approach to immigration is in the tradition of a notorious ship of state

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise

    Replies: @LondonBob

    RORO ferries like the Herald of Free Enterprise had no watertight compartments, sunk very quickly and that accounted for the high level of fatalities despite it sinking in shallow water close to harbour and the quick rescue attempt.

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember. Watched the coverage on Swedish TV in Stockholm, the port it was heading to. Used to take the ferry every summer to Scandinavia when I was younger and those two disasters meant it was always slightly on my mind as to whether everything would be fine when I woke up the next morning. Otherwise I don’t think I have ever slept as well as I did on those ferries, gentle rocking is very soothing.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @LondonBob

    I’ve used ROROs a lot. And after reading the chapter in “The Outlaw Sea” on the Estonia was completely shaken out of my previous complacency. Aeons ago I took a cabin for the Santander-Plymouth journey. Never again. The uncomfortable seats are going to be enough even in rough sea areas.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @LondonBob


    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember.
     
    Over a thousand, largely women and children, perished on the General Slocum:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum


    The victims were mostly from New York's German community, mothers and children out for a day's picnic. There were reports of men returning from their workday to learn that their entire family was gone.

    This is the demographic from which my mother's family came, as is of the Trumps. Our families were spared, though.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Jack D
    @LondonBob

    ROROs are particularly vulnerable as the car deck needs to be low and open by design and because of the "free surface effect" where the flood waters slosh to one side and counteract a ship's natural tendency to right itself.

    Therefore it is important that the utmost caution be exercised with regard to the design and locking of the bow doors. They should be double locked and triple checked and then locked and checked some more, as if the lives of hundreds or thousands of people depend on them, because they do. Unfortunately, in these accidents, the opposite was done. Ferries, by their nature, go back and forth constantly on thousands of trips and so after a while complacency tends to set in. Most of the time, these disasters are the result of not just defective design but defective design COMBINED WITH HUMAN ERROR AND SLOPPINESS. Designs can be improved (the latest standards call for the ship remaining afloat with up to 20 in. of water on the car deck) but the main improvement possible is in human factors - inculcating a safety culture among the crew.

    Unfortunately, safety is not a revenue center for ship operators - in fact it is a cost center, so it tends to be neglected by management, especially those operated by marginal carriers. The same thing is true with airlines so your chances are much better on say Lufthansa or United than on EgyptAir or Pakistan Airlines. So you should pay attention when booking and not buy that 3rd worldish ferry or plane ticket in order to save $4 - it's worth your life to go with the 1st class carrier.

  116. Anonymous[260] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Travis

    You have the worst reading comprehension of any commenter I've seen here in, what?, ten years of Steve taking comments. I explicitly wrote that we should raise the minimum wage for foreigners, not Americans. And somehow you interpret that as raising it for Americans and not for foreigners.

    Go back and sue your high school.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Raising minimum wages for foreigners, particularly H-1B recipients, and using a sliding local scale based on apartment rents and other living costs and also requiring Teamsters level or better health care for them and all dependents would be a splendid idea. I noticed Travis dropped the ball on that idea.

    It would become impossible to use H-1B labor in the By Area or NYC, for instance.

    It would however make Overland Park, KS an even more attractive place to employ them and we would be faced with the constant White Castle smell of Indian eateries all over town. Even though we actually don’t have White Castle any more.

    Oh well. maybe it will help decuck Johnson County and we will get a better brand of local politico.
    On second thought, probably not.

  117. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief
    @Altai


    I don’t think anyone knows how to run the EU otherwise.
     
    I'm a firm believer in the right understanding of what's going on. Some people get it - Guillaume Durocher over at unz gets what's going on.
    A big advantage of the E.u. is that it is so divided - thus the biggest mistakes are always counteracted by opponents such as Orban or the people in GB or Kurz in Austria or - - - the Swiss even, who cooperate, but make their own thing - right in front of our noses, which is quite impressive.

    The E.U. will continue to muddle through. - The man who understood the E. U: best from all I know is German intellectual Hans Magnus Enzensberger. He - in 2011! - published an 80 p. (lucid) essay and his main thesis is hidden in the final chapter (a fictional dialogue): The E. U. has to be downsized! - I think Enzensberger is still - and even more so than before - quite right.

    Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Brussels, the Gentle Monster: or the Disenfranchisement of Europe, 2011

    In French

    Le Doux Monstre de Bruxelles ou L’Europe sous tutelle, traduit par Bernard Lortholary, Paris, Gallimard, 2011 (ISBN 978-2-07-013499-1)

    Replies: @Anonymous

    ‘The biggest mistakes are always countered’.

    Well, the decision to abandon national currencies and bring in the Euro was steamrollered in, unopposed, by Euro elites. Germans were solemnly promised that ‘there would be no transfer union’ under currency unification.
    The Euro was imposed unopposed and agreed upon by the German people, and indeed most other continental Europeans.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Anonymous

    Well - the Brits and the Swiss and the Norwegians and the Swedes - - - did not join the Euro. So - you have the usual European mix of pros and cons here too. Europe is - and will be a mixed bag.

  118. res says:
    @Lot
    @res

    Dunkel’s myopia paper using the same data shows the difference in 3d vis scores to be about .15 with a SD of just under 1 for both the myopic and non myopic AJ v non AJ white groups. That also accorded with my memory of reading the 1972 paper a few months ago.

    Is there a free link somewhere? Possibly on Gwern’a site, which isn’t well indexed.

    Jews were often artisans like glass blowers, silversmiths, lens-makers. They didn’t need extreme VS ability for this, but decaying down to 90 compared to the mostly farmers around them seems unrealistic.

    Replies: @res

    Go to libgen.io and search for the paper title in Scientific articles.

    I’m guessing Dunkel looked at finer grained subtests than those used in the 1972 paper.

    This excerpt from Dunkel supports that and also raises the issue of only looking at 12th graders:

    As stated in the quote by Lynn (2004), Backman (1972) analyzed data from Project Talent, which was a nationwide survey of multiple aspects of America’s youth including cognitive ability. However, unlike the quote implies Project Talent was not a nationwide survey of the abilities of 18 year olds. Project Talent was a nationwide survey of high school students; grades nine through 12. Inexplicably Backman (1972) only analyzed the data from the twelfth graders. Thus, roughly three quarters of the potential sample was not included. Backman (1972) further culled the sample to make the groups more equivalent in size and composition by both removing white non-Jewish participants and participants at the low or high end of socioeconomic status.

    Backman (1972) also did not measure what is properly understood as g. She factor analyzed 60 tests, the number of which and description of the procedures in the codebook suggests a large number were tests of knowledge on specific topics (e.g., photography). Eleven factors emerged of which six were used for further analysis. The factors used for further analysis were labeled verbal knowledge, English language, mathematics, visual reasoning, perceptual speed and accuracy, and memory. The factors not further analyzed included knowledge of hunting-fishing, color-foods, etiquette, and games and a factor called screening which identified illiterate and uncooperative participants.

    In comparing gentile and Jewish Whites, Backman (1972) found Jewish Whites scored higher in verbal knowledge and mathematics, but lower in visual reasoning and memory. The finding that Jews have higher g is often qualified by the findings of more specific abilities in which it appears Jews score especially high on verbal and mathematical tests, roughly equivalent on memory tests, and below average on mental rotation (Cochran, Hardy, & Harpending, 2006;Lynn, 2004). Thus Backman’s (1972) findings were consistent with the findings of these other studies. But, given the manner in which the sample was determined and the data analyzed it is thought that further elucidation may be achieved by a more extensive analysis. Thus one impetus for the current investigation was to reanalyze the Project Talent data using a larger sample and including analyses at a more molecular (i.e., individual tests) and molar (i.e., g) levels.

    That mentions 60 tests, while I only see 16 used by Dunkel.

    I suspect using the factor analysis vs. using individual subtests was a big part of the apparent difference in results. If I am interpreting Table 2 in Dunkel correctly, that Visualization in 3-Dimensions test is heavily g loaded.

    I tend to trust Backman more on group differences given that was the focus of that paper, but there are some methodological questions. From her paper:

    Data had originally been obtained from Project TALENT for a sample of 3,086 respondents: This included only those for whom information on all essential variables was available; since a large majority of the students were non-Jewish-white, data were obtained for only a 5% sample of that group. As there were only a small number of students at the extreme ends of the SES scale, it was not considered feasible to make comparisons of extreme SES groups. Also, although the SES distributions of the ethnic groups overlapped, the Jewishwhites tended to be displaced toward the upper end of the SES scale and the Negroes toward the lower end. To control for differences in SES the analysis was restricted to those in the middle range of the SES scale. The resulting sample of 2,925 students was divided into two groups: upper-middle SES and lower-middle SES, which covered 80-99 and 100-119 respectively on the SES scale.

    I wish she had given results for how much of the variance of the 60 cognitive tests was explained by each of the 11 (6 used) factors.

    One intriguing thing was Table 3 in Backman with an ANOVA showing the vast majority of the variance was accounted for by the 5 degrees of freedom associated with the sex x factor interaction terms.

  119. @Lot
    @Jack D

    “Me too, but only for people who are making more than I am.”

    You might want to leave a little margin of comfort, maybe $30,000 above your AGI, before the new soak the rich tax starts.

    I can say though my argument to tax unearned income more than labor income applies to me directly.

    I look at my taxes at the end of the year and see all my hard labor is getting taxed at 40% marginal rate. And then I make a fair amount doing absolutely nothing in passive investment income and growing home equity, and that is taxed at 0, 15% or 20%. I’m too young to retire, but I certainly will do so earlier because of our dumb rentier-biased system.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Too many retirees for the system to change. Basically, the US (and most of the other advanced countries) has a relatively huge “minor aristocracy”. They don’t really have that great of incomes, but they’re not having to do much to get them. It sucked saving up the down payments for your rental properties, or contributing to your 401K, or putting up with your relatives until you finally get control of the family business. But once the mortgages are paid off, or the value of your investments reaches “critical mass”, or “huh, none of the kids want to take over in the family business, I guess I’ll rent out the farm/store/factory”, it’s not so bad.
    And old people, not having to work, have nothing better to do than fight anyone who tries to change things in a way that might cost them money.

    • Agree: Lot
  120. @Anonymous
    @Dieter Kief

    'The biggest mistakes are always countered'.

    Well, the decision to abandon national currencies and bring in the Euro was steamrollered in, unopposed, by Euro elites. Germans were solemnly promised that 'there would be no transfer union' under currency unification.
    The Euro was imposed unopposed and agreed upon by the German people, and indeed most other continental Europeans.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Well – the Brits and the Swiss and the Norwegians and the Swedes – – – did not join the Euro. So – you have the usual European mix of pros and cons here too. Europe is – and will be a mixed bag.

  121. Jack Hanson says:

    Ross Douthat of all people is publishing about how America is an empire, which is a somewhat honest take. However, his solution seems to be “roll the dice on a catastrophic fallout by trying to thread the needle on ethnopluralism”.

    He doesn’t want to really address the problem with that, which is that our new Woke state religion loses the devil in its pantheon and then who is N’Quistisha going to write screeds about in the paper of record about how powerless she is and also MY HAIR?

    Its also why any attempts at a velvet divorce are bound to failure – Wokeness needs flyover country to keep it fed and actually generate *things* beyond SV VC bubbles and they can’t stop meddling to get their dopamine hits. Look at Georgia and the rest to see how Woke Capital is reacting to “lets not kill babies”.

  122. @Alec Leamas
    @Buffalo Joe


    Jack, the Costa Concordia, great cruise line, great ship. sunk when its Captain gashed the side as he cruised close to shore so his girlfriend could have a better view. There is a program that shows the effort put into refloating the ship so it could be towed away for scrap. Find it. Watch it. Outstanding engineering.
     
    The best engineering is keeping a horny Italian away from the controls of your vessel.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Alec, hmmm, it is an Italian cruise line so at least they hire Italian captains, But he had to be really stupid to sail as he did.

  123. @SimpleSong
    @AnotherDad

    A couple of things you have to understand about JackD:

    1.) He hasn't figured out that price and value are not the same things. What is the value of a diamond to an individual? Essentially nothing--you can live without a diamond quite easily . But they are very pricey. What is the value of potable water? Extremely high, since you will quickly die without it. How much does water cost? Not very much. Price does not equal value to an individual, and the price of something certainly does not reflect value to a society.

    He constantly argues that because the price of one's labor is high the value of one's labor to society is also high. That is a non-sequitur. It also must be psychologically quite crippling for JackD to believe this, as I am sure he does not make as much money as prominent pornographers such as Larry Flynt (RIP). How can JackD live with himself knowing that his value to society is but a small fraction of a moderately successful porno mag publisher?

    2.) He thinks that any government interventions that put a thumb on a scale to shift the price of something closer to the value of something is immoral and the first step on the slippery slope to communism, gulags, etc.

    Apparently despite being a lawyer JackD is unfamiliar with the existence of the patent office. Long ago some dead white dudes figured out that new inventions often had immense value to society, but inventors would generally not be paid for their inventions as they could be freely copied. Price did not align with value. Hence, they used the law to put a thumb on the scale to try to align value and price slightly better. Of course this is only one of many, many examples of the government attempting to align pro-social behaviors with economic rewards. In fact every government everywhere has always done this. Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn't, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.

    3.) He is blissfully unaware of the labor market distortions caused by extremely large and long running trade deficits, which the US has sustained for, well, many people's entire lifetime as Asia has industrialized. To summarize: people in credentialed service industries and finance get overpaid, people in manufacturing get global market rates. I know some Japanese surgeons and they are all excellent and they all make far less than I do. Japan also has fewer lawyers, that make less on average. They have fewer finance droids, that make less on average. Their teachers make less despite producing better outcomes (although that is an HBD issue primarily.)

    The long running US trade deficit is a result of policy decisions. The inflation of the salaries of American doctors, lawyers, and teachers, compared to the rest of the world, is due to a policy decision. So don't give me this bunkum about how, shucks, it's crazy how much money I make, but I guess the invisible hand wills it...

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    The problem with “value” is that it is highly subjective. Your values may not be my values. In a modern market system, the government sometimes interferes with prices in order to impose its values (e.g. put a heavy tax on cigarettes) but generally speaking this is not a good idea and should be limited to the most egregious cases because any deviation from market pricing is like static in the price signals that the market is sending and constitute a limit on personal freedom. If you mess with too many price signals, you get the Soviet Union where goods and services were allocated in a clearly inefficient way to everyone’s detriment.

    But long before that you get sub-optimal outcomes because of issues like regulatory capture. The Founders said that copyrights should be for a “limited time” and thought that about 20 years was the proper balance between compensation for authors and the free flow of information, but the lobbyists from Disney think that a “limited time” means until the end of time minus 1 day and the lobbyists from Disney have bigger checkbooks than you or I. The patent system sounds great until you find out that it is mostly patent trolls and big corporations and patents for “business methods” – the chances that you as an individual citizen will be able to invent a better cloth loom and make money off of it the way the Founding Fathers imagined are close to nil.

    Socialists (including National Socialists) see no limit on this interference and often mess with things that they don’t really understand. They declare that according to their value system, finance or law is “parasitic” and should be done away with, when they are necessary aspects of the efficient allocation of capital and the rule of law. It’s as if someone gave you a car and you said, “I can save weight and get better gas mileage if I get rid of the air filter and chuck the spare tire. They are “parasitic” compared to the pistons which produce the real power in this car.” This may even work for a little while but in the long run those things were put there by the designers for a good reason.

    Perfect market systems don’t exist in the real world. Sure the US has made “policy decisions” that favor free trade and imports of manufactured goods and it’s naturally easier to have free trade in goods vs. services. OTOH, it has made other decisions (tariffs, import quotas, trade agreements) that have actually prevented manufacturing from leaving the US to an even greater extent. Even absent these policy decisions, comparative advantage would have dictated that simple industries like garment sewing would migrate to 3rd world places like Bangladesh and high skilled industries like aircraft manufacture and movie production would stay here. The fact that government interference with a state of nature exists doesn’t mean that the invisible hand doesn’t still apply. Sure there are market distortions but the market still exists. And for me as an individual, I don’t make those decisions so they are all “invisible hand” to me even if they are distorted by government policy.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D

    I think the problem we're having with Free Market Theology is that the reason we think having an ec0nomy is a good thing is because it meets human needs well.

    When the free market ceases to serve human needs it requires correction.

    I think this will become much clearer in the near to mid-term future, where the proportion of people who can produce no real value for their labor will vastly increase. What do we do when, say, 80% of people can't do anything that a robot/computer or third world wage slave can't do better, faster, and cheaper? Do we let them starve? Do we hold them in a perpetual state of adolescent dependence and resentment while meeting their bare physical needs?

    The Free Market uber alles types don't really seem to have an answer, or to have given this much thought whatsoever. This reality will be upon us much sooner than we now realize.

    Replies: @Jack D

  124. On most cruise lines, you are still going to get European captains if not from the same country as the carrier – maybe the line is Norwegian but the captain is Greek (lots of Greek sea captains). But below the officer level it is going to be 3rd worlders as far as the eye can see – Filipinos (lot of Filipinos) and Indonesians and Pakistanis, etc.

  125. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @guest


    Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant?
     
    Aren't you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative to existing governmental configurations?

    At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a ‘berg, the “unsinkable” craft remains as advertised.
     
    If you sink one of the fifty states, the other forty-nine survive, no?

    It didn't work the last time, but what if we propose a new twist? What if we posit a two-state solution? One red, the other blue?

    Good for us, but bad for Steve Sailer.

    Replies: @guest, @Anon87

    “Aren’t you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative”

    Not that I recall. But for what it’s worth, anti-federalists were proven justified in their criticisms and the Constitution definitely failed. I mean, in that it not only ceased to be followed but led to civil war. Or at least couldn’t prevent it.

    Not that the Articles wouldn’t have failed too. Actually, they did in a way since they allowed themselves rather easily to be replaced by the coup in Philadelphia.

  126. @Jack D
    @SimpleSong

    The problem with "value" is that it is highly subjective. Your values may not be my values. In a modern market system, the government sometimes interferes with prices in order to impose its values (e.g. put a heavy tax on cigarettes) but generally speaking this is not a good idea and should be limited to the most egregious cases because any deviation from market pricing is like static in the price signals that the market is sending and constitute a limit on personal freedom. If you mess with too many price signals, you get the Soviet Union where goods and services were allocated in a clearly inefficient way to everyone's detriment.

    But long before that you get sub-optimal outcomes because of issues like regulatory capture. The Founders said that copyrights should be for a "limited time" and thought that about 20 years was the proper balance between compensation for authors and the free flow of information, but the lobbyists from Disney think that a "limited time" means until the end of time minus 1 day and the lobbyists from Disney have bigger checkbooks than you or I. The patent system sounds great until you find out that it is mostly patent trolls and big corporations and patents for "business methods" - the chances that you as an individual citizen will be able to invent a better cloth loom and make money off of it the way the Founding Fathers imagined are close to nil.

    Socialists (including National Socialists) see no limit on this interference and often mess with things that they don't really understand. They declare that according to their value system, finance or law is "parasitic" and should be done away with, when they are necessary aspects of the efficient allocation of capital and the rule of law. It's as if someone gave you a car and you said, "I can save weight and get better gas mileage if I get rid of the air filter and chuck the spare tire. They are "parasitic" compared to the pistons which produce the real power in this car." This may even work for a little while but in the long run those things were put there by the designers for a good reason.

    Perfect market systems don't exist in the real world. Sure the US has made "policy decisions" that favor free trade and imports of manufactured goods and it's naturally easier to have free trade in goods vs. services. OTOH, it has made other decisions (tariffs, import quotas, trade agreements) that have actually prevented manufacturing from leaving the US to an even greater extent. Even absent these policy decisions, comparative advantage would have dictated that simple industries like garment sewing would migrate to 3rd world places like Bangladesh and high skilled industries like aircraft manufacture and movie production would stay here. The fact that government interference with a state of nature exists doesn't mean that the invisible hand doesn't still apply. Sure there are market distortions but the market still exists. And for me as an individual, I don't make those decisions so they are all "invisible hand" to me even if they are distorted by government policy.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I think the problem we’re having with Free Market Theology is that the reason we think having an ec0nomy is a good thing is because it meets human needs well.

    When the free market ceases to serve human needs it requires correction.

    I think this will become much clearer in the near to mid-term future, where the proportion of people who can produce no real value for their labor will vastly increase. What do we do when, say, 80% of people can’t do anything that a robot/computer or third world wage slave can’t do better, faster, and cheaper? Do we let them starve? Do we hold them in a perpetual state of adolescent dependence and resentment while meeting their bare physical needs?

    The Free Market uber alles types don’t really seem to have an answer, or to have given this much thought whatsoever. This reality will be upon us much sooner than we now realize.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    A market economy is like democracy, it's the worst possible system except for all of the others.

    Humans need to be useful. We have tried the "guaranteed income" experiment already on the black women of America and the results have not been good. No matter how many robots and immigrants we get, there is always going to be some task that you can do that has a greater than zero value. If $15/hr is really the minimum "living wage" but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don't pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  127. @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    RORO ferries like the Herald of Free Enterprise had no watertight compartments, sunk very quickly and that accounted for the high level of fatalities despite it sinking in shallow water close to harbour and the quick rescue attempt.

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember. Watched the coverage on Swedish TV in Stockholm, the port it was heading to. Used to take the ferry every summer to Scandinavia when I was younger and those two disasters meant it was always slightly on my mind as to whether everything would be fine when I woke up the next morning. Otherwise I don't think I have ever slept as well as I did on those ferries, gentle rocking is very soothing.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    I’ve used ROROs a lot. And after reading the chapter in “The Outlaw Sea” on the Estonia was completely shaken out of my previous complacency. Aeons ago I took a cabin for the Santander-Plymouth journey. Never again. The uncomfortable seats are going to be enough even in rough sea areas.

  128. @donut
    @guest

    Don't we already have a state where the capt. is irrelevant ?

    Replies: @Old Prude

    We have a winner! (Comment that is, not CIC)

  129. @Lot
    @J.Ross

    “When elites say they love a particular celebrity-intellectual, isn’t that really them commanding the peasants to read him?”

    Sometimes. That may have been the case with the Kochs. They gave free copies of a gladwell book to my College Republicans organization.

    But the rich corporate guy I know that loves Friedman sees me as a fellow petty-elite. I started to mention how low an opinion I have of Friedman and I saw in his face I was going to hurt his feelings if I continued.

    As for Ayn Rand, if you don’t think her followers are sincere, go out and attend a fan club meeting, they have them all over the USA.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @J.Ross

    At least when Ayn was still alive she took care of her followers.

  130. Too bad that the example of the Titanic was a hoax. Insurance fraud on a massive scale.
    http://mileswmathis.com/titan.pdf

    Nation states are hoaxes. “Democracies” with predetermined winners and losers. Ruled by super national Corporations owned by trillionaires. Governments by, of, and for the trillionaires.

    People are just another resource to be exploited.

  131. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D

    I think the problem we're having with Free Market Theology is that the reason we think having an ec0nomy is a good thing is because it meets human needs well.

    When the free market ceases to serve human needs it requires correction.

    I think this will become much clearer in the near to mid-term future, where the proportion of people who can produce no real value for their labor will vastly increase. What do we do when, say, 80% of people can't do anything that a robot/computer or third world wage slave can't do better, faster, and cheaper? Do we let them starve? Do we hold them in a perpetual state of adolescent dependence and resentment while meeting their bare physical needs?

    The Free Market uber alles types don't really seem to have an answer, or to have given this much thought whatsoever. This reality will be upon us much sooner than we now realize.

    Replies: @Jack D

    A market economy is like democracy, it’s the worst possible system except for all of the others.

    Humans need to be useful. We have tried the “guaranteed income” experiment already on the black women of America and the results have not been good. No matter how many robots and immigrants we get, there is always going to be some task that you can do that has a greater than zero value. If $15/hr is really the minimum “living wage” but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don’t pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    If $15/hr is really the minimum “living wage” but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don’t pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.
     
    In a way I think you're missing my point and you're betraying your own "market sets price not value" principles. You're agreeing with your interlocutors and not understanding that you are.

    The employer can hire an AI Superbutt 3000 which intercepts any cigarette butt within 30 seconds of hitting the pavement, not only picks it up but scrubs the area and leaves it sweet smelling. The robot costs pennies an hour to operate and children find it entertaining. Why does the employer pay someone $15.00 to do a subpar job? The market price is $0.03 an hour, and the value is better than what can be bought at $15.00 an hour.

    We're both lawyers. What happens when they invent the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000 which is a program that all of the Fortune 500 Companies agree to submit their disputes to for resolution?

    The program can process millions of bites of information quickly and render a fair and predictable resolution at a scintilla of a fraction of the cost of hiring white shoe firms to battle for years.

    Are you going to fill one of those makework cigarette butt scooping jobs for the (non-market determined) $15.00 per hour? Better hope they don't invent the AI Superbutt 3000 before the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000!

    Replies: @Jack D

  132. @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    RORO ferries like the Herald of Free Enterprise had no watertight compartments, sunk very quickly and that accounted for the high level of fatalities despite it sinking in shallow water close to harbour and the quick rescue attempt.

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember. Watched the coverage on Swedish TV in Stockholm, the port it was heading to. Used to take the ferry every summer to Scandinavia when I was younger and those two disasters meant it was always slightly on my mind as to whether everything would be fine when I woke up the next morning. Otherwise I don't think I have ever slept as well as I did on those ferries, gentle rocking is very soothing.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember.

    Over a thousand, largely women and children, perished on the General Slocum:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum

    The victims were mostly from New York’s German community, mothers and children out for a day’s picnic. There were reports of men returning from their workday to learn that their entire family was gone.

    This is the demographic from which my mother’s family came, as is of the Trumps. Our families were spared, though.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Gen'l Slocum disaster was a little early (1891) for the Trumps who did not move to NY until 1902. Also the Slocum drew its passengers from Little Germany (more or less the modern Alphabet City) whereas the Trumps ended up in Morrisania in the Bronx before moving to Queens. So the Trumps were not quite from that demographic.

  133. @SimpleSong
    @AnotherDad

    A couple of things you have to understand about JackD:

    1.) He hasn't figured out that price and value are not the same things. What is the value of a diamond to an individual? Essentially nothing--you can live without a diamond quite easily . But they are very pricey. What is the value of potable water? Extremely high, since you will quickly die without it. How much does water cost? Not very much. Price does not equal value to an individual, and the price of something certainly does not reflect value to a society.

    He constantly argues that because the price of one's labor is high the value of one's labor to society is also high. That is a non-sequitur. It also must be psychologically quite crippling for JackD to believe this, as I am sure he does not make as much money as prominent pornographers such as Larry Flynt (RIP). How can JackD live with himself knowing that his value to society is but a small fraction of a moderately successful porno mag publisher?

    2.) He thinks that any government interventions that put a thumb on a scale to shift the price of something closer to the value of something is immoral and the first step on the slippery slope to communism, gulags, etc.

    Apparently despite being a lawyer JackD is unfamiliar with the existence of the patent office. Long ago some dead white dudes figured out that new inventions often had immense value to society, but inventors would generally not be paid for their inventions as they could be freely copied. Price did not align with value. Hence, they used the law to put a thumb on the scale to try to align value and price slightly better. Of course this is only one of many, many examples of the government attempting to align pro-social behaviors with economic rewards. In fact every government everywhere has always done this. Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn't, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.

    3.) He is blissfully unaware of the labor market distortions caused by extremely large and long running trade deficits, which the US has sustained for, well, many people's entire lifetime as Asia has industrialized. To summarize: people in credentialed service industries and finance get overpaid, people in manufacturing get global market rates. I know some Japanese surgeons and they are all excellent and they all make far less than I do. Japan also has fewer lawyers, that make less on average. They have fewer finance droids, that make less on average. Their teachers make less despite producing better outcomes (although that is an HBD issue primarily.)

    The long running US trade deficit is a result of policy decisions. The inflation of the salaries of American doctors, lawyers, and teachers, compared to the rest of the world, is due to a policy decision. So don't give me this bunkum about how, shucks, it's crazy how much money I make, but I guess the invisible hand wills it...

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar

    Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn’t, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.

    Murray Rothbard opposed patents but supported copyright. I thought there was a bit of a conflict of interest there.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    In the abstract, having a system for protecting intellectual property is a good idea but the devil is in the details. In practice, our IP system is as corrupt and broken as Amtrak and the DC Metro and anything else that the government touches. It has been hijacked by various special interests and constituencies and does almost nothing to help the mythical guy in his garage who invents a better mousetrap or struggling author. OTOH, it does strengthen the monopoly power of megacorporations like Disney and Apple and Google and also helps a bunch of parasitic (even I would agree that these guys are parasites) “patent trolls” and trial lawyers, etc.

    Once you deviate from the market and let economic questions be decided by politics, this is what you tend to get in the modern world. Our Founding Fathers were a small group of exceptionally wise and cultured men ruling over a small, mainly rural population and so could put systems in place that were relatively benign and free from corruption but in the modern world the little guy doesn’t stand a chance in the face of those with billions to protect. The arena is controlled by elephants and all the mice can do is pray that they don’t get trampled underfoot.

  134. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D



    This sounds like socialism to me ...
     
    Jack, my point isn't exactly rocket science to comprehend so i assume you simply do not want to comprehend it.

    Government, finance, for that matter, the military, the police, prisons, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. etc. are not creating wealth, nor are they things that people actually want to consume. They are ancillary non-productive services that people require once there is the production of wealth. (Yes, they are each a bit different, i'm not trying to drill down into each one.)

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer--and the Illinois farmer, and the Wisconsin dairyman, and the Michigan auto maker, the Pennsylvannia steel maker and the Ohio jet engine engineer, and the Texas oil man, and the Washington aerospace engineer, and the California ... ok, never mind.

    In short:
    America is not rich because of Wall Street, Wall Street is rich because of America.
    America is not rich because of Washington, Washington is rich because of America.

    Whack America down to one tenth it's size and ... Washington and Wall Street would suddenly become a *lot* poorer. Likewise replace America's white population with blacks and ... Washington and Wall Street would be a lot poorer. These places do not produce anything they take a cut of the American economy and suddenly there would be a whole lot less money sloshing around. Suddenly that genius K-street lobbyist would not be "worth" $1000 an hour.

    None of this is difficult to comprehend.

    This isn't to say a bunch of these people aren't sharp or capable. But they are rich, because they are doing elite extraction on top of a big huge rich nation with decent land, with a highly capable and productive white population. Move these very same people to do finance and government in say ... Botswana and suddenly for all their genius they are not longer so "productive" ... because they aren't actually producing anything, they are taking a cut.


    And my point is that if separation came and a whole lot of the United States separated off to be the nationalist "USA Classic"--ex. say along the lines of Trump-Clinton vote--then although the folks destined for "United States of Rainbow" contains a lot of people with high-incomes right now they would have dramatically lower incomes tomorrow, because their incomes are not based on producing anything that anyone in the world actually wants to consume, but rather because they had been doing elite extraction on top of big rich white nation ... which is no longer theirs! And--as i claimed--since they aren't generally dolts a whole lot of them--if push came to shove--would have a rethink on joining an open-borders rainbow globotopia and decide "uh ... um ... maybe i'll just stick with the deplorable white guys."

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @SimpleSong, @Reg Cæsar

    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer

    If the Iowa farmer goes into debt to plant this season, with the help of subsidies and price supports, his claim that Wall Street and Washington are unnecessary is a little, shall we say, nuanced.

    Check out the 1938 and 1940 elections if you think farmers don’t have various, and varying, views on these matters.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Putting aside the confused attitude of farmers toward Washington ("Politicians - keep your hands off my subsidies") , modern farming EXISTS because of Wall Street. No Wall Street, no tractor factories (try putting together a billion or so for a tractor assembly plant without Wall Street). No tractor factories, no tractors or combines. No railroads to transport your crops. No GMO soybean seed, no insecticide and fertilizer plants. No financing for your crop or bank loan to build a new barn. Sure you can "farm" without Wall Street but it's going to be you and your mules and the barn that you built with your own hands.

  135. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    A market economy is like democracy, it's the worst possible system except for all of the others.

    Humans need to be useful. We have tried the "guaranteed income" experiment already on the black women of America and the results have not been good. No matter how many robots and immigrants we get, there is always going to be some task that you can do that has a greater than zero value. If $15/hr is really the minimum "living wage" but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don't pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    If $15/hr is really the minimum “living wage” but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don’t pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.

    In a way I think you’re missing my point and you’re betraying your own “market sets price not value” principles. You’re agreeing with your interlocutors and not understanding that you are.

    The employer can hire an AI Superbutt 3000 which intercepts any cigarette butt within 30 seconds of hitting the pavement, not only picks it up but scrubs the area and leaves it sweet smelling. The robot costs pennies an hour to operate and children find it entertaining. Why does the employer pay someone $15.00 to do a subpar job? The market price is $0.03 an hour, and the value is better than what can be bought at $15.00 an hour.

    We’re both lawyers. What happens when they invent the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000 which is a program that all of the Fortune 500 Companies agree to submit their disputes to for resolution?

    The program can process millions of bites of information quickly and render a fair and predictable resolution at a scintilla of a fraction of the cost of hiring white shoe firms to battle for years.

    Are you going to fill one of those makework cigarette butt scooping jobs for the (non-market determined) $15.00 per hour? Better hope they don’t invent the AI Superbutt 3000 before the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    Better hope they don’t invent the AI Superbutt 3000 before the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000!
     
    It's almost certain that they will. Picking up cigarette butts is an inherently easier task which is why human cigarette butt picker uppers make less than we do already. The market price is (to some extent) a signal as to how difficult a task is. OTOH, Megacorp. can save $300+/hr by getting rid of its outside counsel but only $15/hr by getting rid of its butt pickers, so there's a greater incentive.

    There was a time (before the last financial crisis) where "securitization" was the watchword of the day and it looked like every conceivable form of loan (and not just home mortgages) would be "securitized" - bundled up with a bunch of similar loans and turned into a bond and sold on Wall St. In order for securitization to work, the loans have to all be a standard product. The lender presents you with a set of canned documents and you can't change a single word or the loan is "non-conforming" and can't be packaged and sold. (Good luck getting your mortgage lender to change a single word in your home mortgage). A large part of what I do is negotiating with bank counsel about the form of their commercial loan documents (tweak this grace period and that covenant and that representation, etc. ) so if securitization had really taken over, it would have taken away a lot of my billable hours. But lucky for me it didn't turn out that way.
  136. @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    RORO ferries like the Herald of Free Enterprise had no watertight compartments, sunk very quickly and that accounted for the high level of fatalities despite it sinking in shallow water close to harbour and the quick rescue attempt.

    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember. Watched the coverage on Swedish TV in Stockholm, the port it was heading to. Used to take the ferry every summer to Scandinavia when I was younger and those two disasters meant it was always slightly on my mind as to whether everything would be fine when I woke up the next morning. Otherwise I don't think I have ever slept as well as I did on those ferries, gentle rocking is very soothing.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    ROROs are particularly vulnerable as the car deck needs to be low and open by design and because of the “free surface effect” where the flood waters slosh to one side and counteract a ship’s natural tendency to right itself.

    Therefore it is important that the utmost caution be exercised with regard to the design and locking of the bow doors. They should be double locked and triple checked and then locked and checked some more, as if the lives of hundreds or thousands of people depend on them, because they do. Unfortunately, in these accidents, the opposite was done. Ferries, by their nature, go back and forth constantly on thousands of trips and so after a while complacency tends to set in. Most of the time, these disasters are the result of not just defective design but defective design COMBINED WITH HUMAN ERROR AND SLOPPINESS. Designs can be improved (the latest standards call for the ship remaining afloat with up to 20 in. of water on the car deck) but the main improvement possible is in human factors – inculcating a safety culture among the crew.

    Unfortunately, safety is not a revenue center for ship operators – in fact it is a cost center, so it tends to be neglected by management, especially those operated by marginal carriers. The same thing is true with airlines so your chances are much better on say Lufthansa or United than on EgyptAir or Pakistan Airlines. So you should pay attention when booking and not buy that 3rd worldish ferry or plane ticket in order to save $4 – it’s worth your life to go with the 1st class carrier.

  137. @Reg Cæsar
    @AnotherDad


    The Iowa farmer does not exist because of Wall Street, rather Wall Street exists because of the Iowa farmer
     
    If the Iowa farmer goes into debt to plant this season, with the help of subsidies and price supports, his claim that Wall Street and Washington are unnecessary is a little, shall we say, nuanced.

    Check out the 1938 and 1940 elections if you think farmers don't have various, and varying, views on these matters.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Putting aside the confused attitude of farmers toward Washington (“Politicians – keep your hands off my subsidies”) , modern farming EXISTS because of Wall Street. No Wall Street, no tractor factories (try putting together a billion or so for a tractor assembly plant without Wall Street). No tractor factories, no tractors or combines. No railroads to transport your crops. No GMO soybean seed, no insecticide and fertilizer plants. No financing for your crop or bank loan to build a new barn. Sure you can “farm” without Wall Street but it’s going to be you and your mules and the barn that you built with your own hands.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  138. @Reg Cæsar
    @SimpleSong


    Sometimes it works reasonably well, sometimes it doesn’t, but apart from Ayn Rand pretty much everybody thinks this is a reasonable role for government.
     
    Murray Rothbard opposed patents but supported copyright. I thought there was a bit of a conflict of interest there.

    Replies: @Jack D

    In the abstract, having a system for protecting intellectual property is a good idea but the devil is in the details. In practice, our IP system is as corrupt and broken as Amtrak and the DC Metro and anything else that the government touches. It has been hijacked by various special interests and constituencies and does almost nothing to help the mythical guy in his garage who invents a better mousetrap or struggling author. OTOH, it does strengthen the monopoly power of megacorporations like Disney and Apple and Google and also helps a bunch of parasitic (even I would agree that these guys are parasites) “patent trolls” and trial lawyers, etc.

    Once you deviate from the market and let economic questions be decided by politics, this is what you tend to get in the modern world. Our Founding Fathers were a small group of exceptionally wise and cultured men ruling over a small, mainly rural population and so could put systems in place that were relatively benign and free from corruption but in the modern world the little guy doesn’t stand a chance in the face of those with billions to protect. The arena is controlled by elephants and all the mice can do is pray that they don’t get trampled underfoot.

  139. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    If $15/hr is really the minimum “living wage” but you can only produce $8/hr worth of useful services, maybe your employer should give you the $8 and the government make up the rest (they do that already anyway to some extent) but goddamn it you should get out of bed and do that $8/hr worth of stuff and not stay home and play video games. There is plenty of stuff to be done. The streets of Filthadelphia are filthy. There are old and lonely people who would like someone to talk to them over a meal. Go and pick up cigarette butts but don’t pay people to sit on their asses and play video games.
     
    In a way I think you're missing my point and you're betraying your own "market sets price not value" principles. You're agreeing with your interlocutors and not understanding that you are.

    The employer can hire an AI Superbutt 3000 which intercepts any cigarette butt within 30 seconds of hitting the pavement, not only picks it up but scrubs the area and leaves it sweet smelling. The robot costs pennies an hour to operate and children find it entertaining. Why does the employer pay someone $15.00 to do a subpar job? The market price is $0.03 an hour, and the value is better than what can be bought at $15.00 an hour.

    We're both lawyers. What happens when they invent the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000 which is a program that all of the Fortune 500 Companies agree to submit their disputes to for resolution?

    The program can process millions of bites of information quickly and render a fair and predictable resolution at a scintilla of a fraction of the cost of hiring white shoe firms to battle for years.

    Are you going to fill one of those makework cigarette butt scooping jobs for the (non-market determined) $15.00 per hour? Better hope they don't invent the AI Superbutt 3000 before the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000!

    Replies: @Jack D

    Better hope they don’t invent the AI Superbutt 3000 before the AI Dispute-O-Matic 10,000!

    It’s almost certain that they will. Picking up cigarette butts is an inherently easier task which is why human cigarette butt picker uppers make less than we do already. The market price is (to some extent) a signal as to how difficult a task is. OTOH, Megacorp. can save $300+/hr by getting rid of its outside counsel but only $15/hr by getting rid of its butt pickers, so there’s a greater incentive.

    There was a time (before the last financial crisis) where “securitization” was the watchword of the day and it looked like every conceivable form of loan (and not just home mortgages) would be “securitized” – bundled up with a bunch of similar loans and turned into a bond and sold on Wall St. In order for securitization to work, the loans have to all be a standard product. The lender presents you with a set of canned documents and you can’t change a single word or the loan is “non-conforming” and can’t be packaged and sold. (Good luck getting your mortgage lender to change a single word in your home mortgage). A large part of what I do is negotiating with bank counsel about the form of their commercial loan documents (tweak this grace period and that covenant and that representation, etc. ) so if securitization had really taken over, it would have taken away a lot of my billable hours. But lucky for me it didn’t turn out that way.

  140. @Reg Cæsar
    @LondonBob


    The MS Estonia, the second deadliest European maritime disaster after the Titanic, was the other one I remember.
     
    Over a thousand, largely women and children, perished on the General Slocum:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum


    The victims were mostly from New York's German community, mothers and children out for a day's picnic. There were reports of men returning from their workday to learn that their entire family was gone.

    This is the demographic from which my mother's family came, as is of the Trumps. Our families were spared, though.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The Gen’l Slocum disaster was a little early (1891) for the Trumps who did not move to NY until 1902. Also the Slocum drew its passengers from Little Germany (more or less the modern Alphabet City) whereas the Trumps ended up in Morrisania in the Bronx before moving to Queens. So the Trumps were not quite from that demographic.

  141. @Reg Cæsar
    @The Anti-Gnostic


    Libertarian idiocy.
     
    There is nothing libertarian about subsidized immigration.

    If anything, we should sell residence permits. Say, for $300,000 apiece. They can always take out a mortgage.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    That’s too cheap.

  142. Steve Sailer like a lot of Vdare writers thought that the upper Midwest was going Republican when Trump barely won those states. In fact Trump in April had a higher approval rating in Texas and Florida. Two large states that will had electrical college votes in 2024 while PA and Michigan lose them. Pa and Michigan blue collar whites are less Republican than South Carolina or Texas due to being more union hacks. Trump could win election by losing both Michigan and PA by winning Arizona, the 2nd district of Maine, Wisconian, Ohio, Iowa, and Florida to get 270. By 2024, the upper Midwest states and the Northeast states will lose probably 10 electircal votes to the South or the west. The upper Midwest served its purpose for 2016, 2020, and 2024. In fact there are less illegal immigrants in PA overall than Texas. One reason why Trump is more popular in Texas than PA.

  143. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @guest


    Can we structure the state so as to make the captain irrelevant?
     
    Aren't you the one that proffered the Articles of Confederation to me as a viable alternative to existing governmental configurations?

    At least as far as staying afloat is concerned. If the worst happens and a drunken fool hits a ‘berg, the “unsinkable” craft remains as advertised.
     
    If you sink one of the fifty states, the other forty-nine survive, no?

    It didn't work the last time, but what if we propose a new twist? What if we posit a two-state solution? One red, the other blue?

    Good for us, but bad for Steve Sailer.

    Replies: @guest, @Anon87

    Did you happen to see Colin Quinn’s stand-up special on CNN (I know, I know, but don’t hold the channel against him): Red State, Blue State?

  144. @KunioKun
    I think it was in my copy of Landmark Arrian: The Campaigns of Alexander where the author characterizes civilizations as either Persian style or Greek style. The Persian style has a tough outer shell, but once you crack that it has a soft nougatty center that's easy to smash. The Greek style is one long fight for every scrap of useless land, but the fights aren't that hard because they don't help each other.


    Lincoln had Andrew Jackson as a precedent:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Bill

    Replies: @Anon

    This distinction was made by Machiavelli in The Prince, between states are easy to invade but difficult to rule, and states that are difficult to invade but easy to rule.

    Modern examples of the former would be Iraq and Afghanistan, and of the latter, Germany and Japan.

  145. @Reg Cæsar
    Nothing about lifeboats until the last paragraph. And nothing about maritime rodent desertion. Good job.

    For example, the slave states generally ran Washington before the Civil War...
     
    They knew their days were numbered. Alexandria County retroceded to Virginia in 1847.


    https://steemitimages.com/DQmPdLJi7YkAjumam573zGmXv17KUuzr1hRALRj85YcYxyy/dcboundarystones2.png

    Replies: @bored identity, @R.G. Camara, @Anon

    Nothing good will come of a swamp.

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