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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

On the Origin of Races
Steve Sailer, April 28, 2021

During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

So I’m going to step back from the daily fray this week and sketch out a stylized history of how we came to have two opposing ways to try to make sense of the realities of human biological diversity: as continuous or discontinuous. Do people mostly just differ slightly from their neighbors in a steady progression of blurry differences around the world? Or is it more helpful in organizing our knowledge of human variation to think of most individuals as belonging to largely separate major races?

These mental frameworks grew out of the differing experiences with the Africa to the south of the ancient Greeks in the east and the Renaissance Iberians in the west.

South of Greece in northeastern Africa, the Sahara Desert was less of a barrier to land or sea travel due to the Nile, the green highlands of Ethiopia, and the much-traversed Red Sea and Indian Ocean.

In contrast, in northwestern Africa south of Portugal, both the geography and the culture of the Sahara cut off Europeans from sub-Saharans until the 15th-century Portuguese mariners made their great leap around the Muslim monopoly on trade. Hence, the ancient Greeks tended to see race as more a matter of degree, while the worldview that grew out of Portuguese and Spanish explorations saw it more as a matter of kind. …

Read the whole thing there.

I should have alos mentioned that Shakespeare had an old-fashioned directional sense of race, like the Greeks. Othello, the Moor of Venice, was from yonder down south somewhere, but Shakespeare’s tragedy is pretty vague about whether he was an olive-skinned Moroccan, a brown Mauritanian, or a black sub-Saharan.

About 20 years ago I read Othello closely and found eight lines suggesting he was a black sub-Saharan and two suggesting he was an olive-skinned Moroccan.

Shakespeare likely wrote Othello in the early 1600s, about 150 years after the first black sub-Saharans likely arrived at the docks of London in Portuguese ships (the Portuguese, allies and trading partners of the English, first reached the Senegal River in 1445). So, Shakespeare had probably observed black sub-Saharans down at the docks.

My guess is that Shakespeare, being, above all else, a showman, intended Othello to be what we now think of as a black rather than as just a boring olive-skinned Moroccan.

The single most important genetic divide in the human race is between sub-Saharans and everybody else. As geneticist David Reich of Harvard told poor, intellectually overmatched Angela Saini, sub-Saharans versus everybody else have been evolving largely separately for 70,000 years. This presumably accounts for why sub-Saharans tend to be interesting to other races, while other less distinct variants, such as New World Indians, who have largely been on their own for 15,000 years, especially the corn-growing agriculturalists, are kind of boring to the modern mind.

But it’s not at all clear that Shakespeare, living a century and a half before Linnaeus and Blumenbach crystallized the Enlightenment’s racial conception of distinct races, thought of races as highly separate.

Shakespeare instead seemed to think of Moors as people living far enough south of England to be racially distinct. But Shakespeare didn’t seem to worry much about drawing precise distinctions among the wogs. The further south you went from England, the more woggish the wogs got. But distinctions between olive-skinned wogs and black-skinned wogs were not of intense interest to London’s paying audiences, so Shakespeare wasn’t going to get all nerdy about which kind of wog was Othello.

If you liked to conceive of Othello as a tawny but decorous North African Christian, go for it. But if it intrigued you to think of Othello as a big rampaging black man from somewhere south of civilization, O.J. Simpson avant la lettre, well, Shakespeare wasn’t going to refuse to accept your price of admission either.

 
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  1. Best history lesson ya ever put up, Sailerman.

    • Agree: JR Ewing, Kylie
    • Disagree: Corvinus
  2. A thought-provoking and informative read, and refresher, on the historical Western view of race. Thank you, Mr. Sailer.

    A stray thought. How many readers from the hardcore HBD and genetics crowd from years past still frequent unz.com?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @PhysicistDave
  3. Anonymous[390] • Disclaimer says:

    These mental frameworks grew out of the differing experiences with the Africa to the south of them of the ancient Greeks in the east and the Renaissance Iberians in the west.

    Not your most elegant sentence. (If you don’t want to completely rework it, consider excising “of them.”) By the final sentence of the excerpt, I had a better understanding though.

  4. Polistra says:

    Do people mostly just differ slightly from their neighbors in a steady progression of blurry differences around the world? Or is it more helpful in organizing our knowledge of human variation to think of most individuals as belonging to largely separate major races?

    As you mention in your essay, the second conception applied better in an earlier world, in which the races were indeed mostly separate and distinct.

    The first is becoming more accurate with the passage of time, and especially with the passage of policies making it just about inevitable. As always, there is a ‘tribe’ or two who consider themselves eternally separate, and who seek out and maintain the wherewithal to enforce that separation–on their own terms.

    • Replies: @SMK
  5. Malla says:

    Steve, when Europeans started exploring the World during the 16th century, Europeans slowly started realizing that people from other parts of the world were more different than them collectively than they were with each other (Inter-European)? You know Europeans always had some negative stereotype about the other kinds of Europeans. Give a Pole loads of booze and he would go off about those damn Krauts and Ruskies. Snobby Frenchies would talk condescendingly about those Stupid English, Germans, Spaniards, Italians etc…. You know what I mean. But when they explored the World, they realized that Africans, Asians of all kinds, Native Americans, Eskimo, Native Siberians, Pacific Islanders, Australian Aboes etc… were even more different than them collectively than they are were to each other within the White family. So the concept of Race started getting new significance and they started studying this human diversity in a typical European scientific manner just like they were studying all kinds of flora and fauna they were encountering in new lands.
    And they even wrote positive thing about these other races. Some of the earliest Europeans who went to Japan back in the 16th Century, came to the conclusion that the Japanese were superior in their crafts (and other things) not only among all Oriental peoples but outdid Europeans themselves!!! These observations ended up being vindicated when the Japanese had their Meiji Restoration and Industrialization and later again after WW2,

  6. Anonymous[390] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    A stray thought. How many readers from the hardcore HBD and genetics crowd from years past still frequent unz.com?

    What interests you about the question?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  7. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Apparently a ‘junta’ of retired French generals have published a letter in a leading French newspaper prophesying a future bloody racial civil war in France.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  8. Anonymous[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Disregard this proposed edit: “If you don’t want to completely rework it, consider excising “of them.””

    It would detract from the geographical alignment you are trying to convey in the sentence. I didn’t read it well initially.

  9. @Anonymous

    In my column, I tried to repeat myself in various ways often enough to get my rather novel point across.

  10. Anonymous[171] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘Race does not exist’.

    BUT: Divvying up affirmative action goodies or selling out western – but only western, mind you nations to massive uncontrolled immigration from non white nations – in phenotypic appearance and deep ancestry *does* exist.
    The upshot is that ‘race’ exists alright, but only if somehow the concept can be used in such a way as to wound or to the detriment of white people. Now, *THAT* is the modern ‘scientific’ or otherwise Economist approved definition of race. Everything else is bullshit.

    Basically it’s what Lewis Carroll – himself an academic Oxford logician and mathematician, keenly interested in the notion of rigid proof and the concatenation of abstract and abstruse truths dependent on this axiomization – called ‘Mad Hatter’s Logic’ in reference to the satirical character in ‘Alice in Wonderland, introduced, no doubt for the profoundest of pedagogical reasons.

    ” A thing be true”, intoned the Mad Hatter, “If I say it be true”.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  11. Anon[103] • Disclaimer says:

    The Ancient Greeks were familiar various sub-Saharan types such as Ethiopians, Nubians, Sudanese, etc.

  12. @Jim Christian

    Best history lesson ya ever put up, Sailerman.

    Yes – refreshingly informative and thus an excellent overview. Crisp as the snow on the Dhaulagiri and clear as water from a deep well in the Shara. A perfect textbook entry and future classic. – But – hehe, hopefully, this is not too Germanly nitpicky what I say now: No superlative needed here. I’d hand that superlative over to Wilhelm von Ockham and – let him take care of it (=make it disappear).

    • Replies: @Another Canadian
  13. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    And they even wrote positive thing about these other races. Some of the earliest Europeans who went to Japan back in the 16th Century, came to the conclusion that the Japanese were superior in their crafts (and other things) not only among all Oriental peoples but outdid Europeans themselves!!!

    Why do people continue to parrot this weeaboo faggotry?

    Japanese culture was utterly primitive. Their music sounded like dogshit, their “art” was cartoonish, their material culture quite backwards, their clothing rougher, and their footwear pitiful, compared to Europeans.

    Consider that Japanese carpenters were still using the hand drill in the 19th century. That’s right, a fucking spindle rotated inbetween the hands. They hadn’t even invented the fucking bow drill.

    Even their language is primitive and sounds like something a chimp would speak. To say Iapanese culture was ever superior to Europeans is just outrageous. Even the Japanese will proudly tell you, “we are inferior”.

  14. The differences in archaic human genetic contributions to the different races is an exceedingly powerful argument for a discontinuous view of racial differences. For example most Europeans have roughly 3% Neanderthal genes, while most sub-Saharan Africans of totally different archaic human genes, how can whites and blacks be 99.99% generically similar? Interestingly skull sizes and intelligence are still allowed in discussions of archaic human populations.

    Foucault is useful for dissidents. One problem with the dissident right is they still image they have societal power. Looking at the example of Angela Davis will show you just how things have been turned head to heels. In the early 70’s she was cancelled by Reagan and Big Capital for being a communist. Now it is she and people like her, in alliance with Woke Capital, who are doing the cancelling, and it is the dissident right who are getting cancelled.

    Foucault didn’t discuss race often, but what he did say is extremely useful to the dissident right. First of all he talked about how European concepts of race during the 17th century were linguistic/cultural. For the Gauls and Franks for example, a child born to Gauls but raised by Franks would be Frank. But with Immanuel Kant’s division of race into skin color categories, race became about the body, and thus a black child raised by white parents remained black. Even the wokest of the wokety woke still see race this way.

    When Foucault talks about racism, he almost always talking about intra-race racism, whites declaring other whites as “abnormal”, degenerate, damaged, fit for extermination, a disease to the hygiene of the race. Hillary’s deplorable speech and much woke rhetoric about the dissident right uses this abnormalizing rhetoric. Foucault talks about political death of dissidents which is what we today call cancelling.

    Foucault also discusses race war discourse in a very positive manner. Springing from a mythical, Biblical, messianic discourse–Jerusalem vs Rome–the binary parts of oppressor and oppressed soon become theorized as competing races. While acknowledging the dangers, Foucault points out that race war discourse fueled the first rebellions against sovereign power. He points out that Marx admits that his concept of class war was borrowed from race war discourse.

    Yes, Foucault was a pedophile freak but in a similar light, I never let the fact that Jimmy Page was banging a 13 year old from stopping me enjoying one of his solos. The key to Foucault is identifying yourself as oppressed and society’s dominant power structure as oppressors. This framing should come very easily to the dissident right and with this power alignment Foucault becomes quite useful as a frame of reference.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @AndrewR
  15. Science is racist and sexist. According to individuals who aren’t any good at it.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  16. Origins of Races in the iSteve headline and Origin of Races in the Taki’s Mag headline. – What does that show?

    PS

    The first sentence of the essay shows the crack in the west’s present racial reasoning perfectly well:

    During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    , @anon
  17. “Shakespeare likely wrote Othello in the early 1600s, about 150 years after the first black sub-Saharans likely arrived at the docks of London in Portuguese ships (the Portuguese, allies and trading partners of the English, first reached the Senegal River in 1445).”

    This is unlikely, as 150 yrs earlier the English were still involved in the Hundred Years War with France, and then came the Wars of the Roses. Its unlikely that they’d still be having tons of trading ships from other nations while heavily involved with two wars one after the other. There is also no evidence of such a presence in London. Apparently the first chronicled mention of blacks in London was when future Queen of England, the Spanish Catherine of Aragon brought a few blacks from Spain in her court, which would fix the date about a half century later, ca.1500. But the idea that thousands of blacks resided in London during Shakespeares time is a bit nonsensical.

    Shakespeare explicitly refers to Othello repeatedly as a Moor. Unlike Sub-Saharan Africans, the Moors were well known to Western Christendom well before 1445 (e.g. the Crusades 1099-1291, brought them to prominence to the West). Also, the epic poem El Cid, (ca. 1100) also specifically refers to the Moors. And, people of Shakespeare’s time understood what the Moors looked like. Only about 75 yrs previously Francis I of France made a treaty with Suleiman of Ottoman Empire. So if anything, the Moors resemble Suleiman, not OJ. Up until the mid to late nineteenth century, most of Western Europe was at war with Islam in one form or another (unofficially and officially), so another theme that Shakespeare may be pushing is that a sworn enemy of the West, Islam, a Moor, could be wed to Western European woman, was amazing, fantastic, jaw-dropping, as this simply wasn’t done. Perhaps the Bard wanted to stress the idea of peace between two powers (Italian states and Moorish empire) and that a wedding could achieve peace between two nations, a la Capulets and Montagues in Romeo and Juliet.

    In other words, it wasn’t a major issue in Shakespeare’s time, because he explicitly stated he was a Moor. The Moors weren’t known for being black. Granted Afro-centric historians have recently attempted to claim them, but that doesn’t alter the fact that the Moors were North African and thus non-Sub Saharan. If Shakespeare had wanted to make him black, he certainly wouldn’t have referred to him as being a Moor. Back in Shakepeare’s time, when one said “Moor” that was shorthand for Arabic type, and not Tyrone or George Floyd, and people would’ve understood the reference. Just as in Hamlet when he mentions Denmark, it’s understood that the people resemble a type.

    Point being, in Shakespeare’s time, his more sophisticated London audiences would have understood who he was referring to when he mentioned that Othello was a Moor (and he is referred to as a Moor repeatedly in the play). Whereas if he was simply black, he would’ve been given a unique distinctive identifier and not specifically labeled “Moor”. Contrary to 21st century belief, Shakespeare’s London didn’t have thousands of blacks residing in their midst.

    “So, Shakespeare had probably observed black sub-Saharans down at the docks.”

    Ok. Except there is no direct historical evidence to this. And he explicitly states that he is a Moor. The Moors to Shakespeare’s audiences would’ve understood the reference. Moor = Islam, Arabic, Northern European.

    This fact is borne out by for the first three and a half centuries, white actors played Othello. Because the word “Moor” was understood to be non-black. It’s generally been PC America with its concept of race that takes the word Moor = Africa, and therefore he must be black as where the confusion developed.

  18. The Portuguese must have been the first Europeans to meet pygmies.

    • Thanks: epebble
  19. @Anonymous

    In those kinds of situations, when I am paying attention to what I’m writing, I try not to reuse the same grammar patterns, and I think that increases clarity. In this case we have “[preposition] the [directional noun]” repeated three times doing two different jobs. I would prefer something like

    These mental frameworks grew out of the differing experiences of the eastern Mediterranean’s ancient Greeks and the western Mediterranean’s Rennaissance Iberians with the Africa to the south of each.

    although I’m not real happy with that sentence either. Trying to make both the location and the era salient in the same sentence is difficult. I think the reader tends to pick up only one salient point in that kind of situation. Then as they’re reading the essay, they later get it.

  20. Steve, is there a connection between the portrayal of Othello and the other blackface characters that appear in Europe like Schwart Pete?

  21. @PiltdownMan

    PiltdownMan asked:

    How many readers from the hardcore HBD and genetics crowd from years past still frequent unz.com?

    Probably depends on what you mean by “hardcore.” I’m fascinated by behavioral genetics, by paleo-genetics (e.g., David Reich), etc.

    But it does not have that big an impact on my daily behavior: e.g., I think culture and individual differences trump race.

    Which of course makes me a “race traitor” to our white-nationalist friends. Yes, yes, I am indeed a race traitor!

  22. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    I think we can all agree that “Othello” would have had a far different ending if his wife had been black.

    • LOL: Unladen Swallow
    • Replies: @CCG
    , @Wade Hampton
  23. Interesting article.

    Steve, I have to quibble about Herodotus. He didn’t claim the Phoenicians went around Africa. He reported that some Phoenicians said they did. They claimed it took 3 years, largely because when their wheat supplies got low they stopped, plowed a field, and planted what they had and waited to harvest it. Herodotus ends up telling his readers, “you can believe it or not, but I don’t.” The reason for his skepticism was that the Phoenicians reported that when they were all the way at the southern tip of Africa, when they were rowing East the sun was on their left. Herodotus thought that was clearly a sailor’s tall tale, but for modern readers, that’s how we know they were telling the truth. They didn’t know what the equator was, but they got to the other side of it.

  24. Gordo says:

    Wogs?

    By God Mister Sailer, Wogs are wily oriental gentlemen, may I point you towards ‘The Germans’ episode of Fawlty Towers for a good explanation.

    • Replies: @Wade Hampton
  25. Gordo says:

    These mental frameworks grew out of the differing experiences with the Africa to the south of the ancient Greeks in the east and the Renaissance Iberians in the west.

    Certainly Renaissance-wise, I believe in late Roman times the Sahara could be crossed North/South on horseback.

  26. @Dieter Kief

    Only iSteve would contain a reference to being “Germanly nitpicky.”

  27. At one point, Iago refers to Othello as “the thick-lips”, which suggests, I think, sub-Saharan.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @keypusher
  28. @Jim Christian

    From the excerpt with the geography factors that are part of the history, I know I’m gonna like the column (as usual). Big geography buff here!

    • Agree: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @SafeNow
  29. Anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    Just a few days ago something popped into my head that was a perfect, instantly easy-to-understand analogy, of something everyday and concrete that everyone is familiar with, to the idea of races as basically separate, while being a little fuzzy at the edges with a certain amount of gradation and admixture … but for practical purposes discrete entities. This analogy required zero explanation to be understood.

    And then later when I tried to remember what this wonderful thing was, I realized that I had forgotten it. My aging brain strikes again. I need to up my memo-taking game.

  30. I just read the column. If that is indeed a novel point, and I have no evidence to think otherwise, it’s the kind of stuff that SHOULD BE in a big article in The Atlantic* magazine. If only we were not living in the Crazy Times™, approaching the point of Peak Stupidity™, it would be.

    Instead of the 5 races from Blumenbach, as you mentioned, we had an atlas when I was a kid, not particularly old at that time, that had a section on the 3 races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid. Blumenbach’s “Americans” were considered Mongoloid in this atlas (I specifically remember this), and those “Malayans” would be some cross between all 3 races, I guess.

    All I know is, that when I was reading that atlas, again, mostly in it for the maps I’ve always loved, I had met perhaps 3 people from the race that it dubbed Negroid and ZERO people from the race it dubbed Mongoloid. The atlas never mentioned that one of these races needed to be “compromised”.

    .

    * Get it? Atlantic, as in the Ocean Sea, Christopher Columbus, etc…

  31. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Will India’s current Covid nightmare scotch, once and for all, all the excitable talk of India becoming a new ‘major global superpower’ , ‘the next China in waiting’ etc etc ?

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @El Dato
  32. @Dieter Kief

    The first sentence of the essay shows the crack in the west’s present racial reasoning perfectly well:

    During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

    Indeed. As well as the Greek view of race, and the Portuguese view, there is the New York view. Race does not exist, but black lives matter; and woe betide any white person who pretends to be black.

    It is a prime example of Orwellian doublethink. It is not only a popular view, but a mandatory one, because the truth about racial differences is too painful to bear.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  33. Rich says:

    The Multiregional Origin of Man theory makes much more sense than the Out of Africa theory. Caucasians, Mongloids and Negroids are too different to have all originated in one place and just the logistics of foot travel all over the world seems silly. The Out of Africa theory became popular as a means of integrating blacks into White society. It’s propaganda, that’s all.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  34. VICB3 says:
    @Jim Christian

    Very much on topic:

    Start reading Erectus Walks Amongst Us.

    https://www.unz.com/book/richard_d_fuerle__erectus-walks-amongst-us/

    Turns the whole out of Africa hypothesis on its head. And Blacks – and all of the different races for that matter – have been evolving for a good deal more than 70,000 years.

    Read the first 200 pages in one sitting. Really changed a number of view points on Human development and race..

    Hope this helps!

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    • Thanks: Jim Christian
  35. Jack D says:

    It’s an interesting thesis but is it true? Was there really a difference in the way the Iberians viewed the African races vs. the way that the ancient Greek viewed them and did this view in turn affect how the rest of the West, including the English, viewed them?

    The Portuguese were of course always in contact with Morocco – Faro in the south of Portugal is only a short 150 mile sail from Tangier, about the same distance it is to Lisbon. And the Moors in turn had contact with sub-Saharans long before the age of exploration The Almoravid empire extended down the coast thru all of modern day Western Sahara and north to Lisbon (and later Muslim conquests brought them even deeper into Africa – half of Nigeria is Muslim). So I don’t think the isolation that you posit ever really existed.

    While the primary route to the penetration of sub-Saharan Africa was down along the coasts, the Moors also had camel caravans that went thru the desert to trade. The interior of Africa is lacking in salt and whoever could bring salt in across the desert could earn a fortune. These caravans lasted until modern times.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  36. Good work. Truly the seer of the age.

  37. @Dave Pinsen

    The Portuguese saved the Abyssinian Christians (i.e. Ethiopians) from extinction. If not for their muskets and musketeers, the Muslims would have overrun the highlands and Abyssinia would have ended up like Palestine: Muslim.

  38. @PhysicistDave

    Quite so.

    It would be interesting to study behavioral and cultural differences and similarities and educational achievement, literacy, and crime rates between blacks in the US and other contemporary countries, for example the UK, France, Ghana, Bermuda, Haiti, Guyana, Brazil, Ecuador, Panamá.

    What I really want to know is Steve’s proposed American race-realist solution to The White Man’s burden.

  39. Dr. X says:

    During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

    Race doesn’t exist, but white supremacy does, so we need affirmative action to provide equity to the other races that don’t exist.

    • Replies: @Yahudah1959
  40. As usual, a fascinating take on a complex topic by Steve.

    However, the greatest genetic divide in the human race is not between sub-Saharans and everyone else. The greatest genetic divide in the human race is between sub-Saharan Khoe-San groups and everyone else, including other sub-Saharan populations. The Khoe-San lineage diverged from other African groups ~250,000 years ago (although these African lineages have admixed over the last ~1,000 years owing to the Bantu expansion). As such, there is far more human genetic diversity below the Sahara than there is in the rest of the world combined.* West Africans, East Africans and Europeans are more closely related to each other than either is to the Khoe-San, having diverged ~150,000 and ~75,000 years ago, respectively (see image).

    *What the implications of this are for phenotypic divergence is a matter for interesting speculation.

    Schlebush et al. 2017 Science 358: 652-655 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6363/652

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Paperback Writer
  41. I’ve read both texts & mostly agree, with some marginal dissensions.

    But, there is additional stuff ….

    I’ve seen that most races (big) have evolved during the period 30-90,000 years ago, while Negroes’ oldest skeleton is just 8,000-12,000 years old (forensic anthropology). Although certainly they are “older”, but it seems, as far as looks go, sub-Saharan Africans are the youngest race. Caucasians, east Asians, native Americans,… are much older races.

    Of course, this is if we accept out of Africa theory (which, I think, Chinese evolutionary theorists are rather skeptical about).

    What about further evolution, happening after civilization has appeared ca. 5,000-6,000 years ago? Have we physiologically, not just culturally, evolved in a short span of existing human civilization, which is around 5,000 years? Having in mind that Caucasians, as a separate race, appeared 30,000 to 80,000 years ago, and African Negroes are attested ca. 8,000 to 12,000 years ago- did people change in some non-negligible way in the past, say, 3,000-4,000 years? Mind, Europeans are, generally, 10 to 15 cm taller than just 300 years ago. What about mental & emotional processes? Not just culture, manners, moral norms …. but reflexes, measurable cognitive abilities, certainly immune systems?

    It is true that most races find blacks interesting, but also- loathsome. They mixed with them only to avoid gayness. We can see this in numerous attested examples from Caucasians, east & south Asians, Indians/Native Americans, … Feather Indians, we know, strongly resist, when they can, inclusion of negroid Indian-black mixes into their tribes (while most of them don’t have any problem with whites). Also, we know that others frequently associate blacks with monkeys & something not entirely human (this has little to do with culture, but is some kind of visceral reaction). It is, of course, scientifically (biology etc.) nonsense; from a humanist standpoint, it is cruel & degrading.

    But it is an authentic gut reaction that won’t go away with education, “diversity”, …. For instance, Africans are generally, post-Covid, mostly cleansed from China.

    Also, I doubt that Greeks did not sharply differentiate between blacks & others. They simply did not have much interaction with them; blacks existed, if at all, at the far margins of Greek race-human consciousness.

    What is interesting that Arabs are, as far as I know, the only race that has voluntarily mixed with blacks (Arabs being, of course, Levantines, i.e. Caucasians or slightly tanned whites). I don’t have an explanation for that.

    Anyway, I would agree that the biggest division is between blacks & all others. Without going into IQ & other tiresome stuff- I’ve seen a few videos where multiracial people speak. Personally- I find physically attractive only white- east Asian female (not male) combination, as well as white- Native American (both genders). All others are weird, but blacks mixed with any other clearly stick out as something very, very easy to identify & different.

  42. OT, well known environmentalist Eric Turkheimer proudly displays his totalitarian colors:

    So a journal whose very name is Journal of Controversial Ideas must publish only articles which someone on the editorial board will publicly agree with.

    The man is an out-of-control control freak. He will tell you what you are allowed to think about.

  43. Rob McX says:

    Experience with animals and animal breeding must also have influenced people’s views on race.

  44. ….then in the 600s the new Muslim conquerors cut off the south side of the Mediterranean from Christendom with a sort of Muslin Curtain.

    LOL. Apparently, Christians were total losers. All Muslims had to do was put up a little cotton, and nobody from Europe could break through….

  45. I read somewhere that the melanin/cells in negroes is of one type and in Asians and Caucasins it is a different type. And there is the hair and those exquisite microcurls.

  46. The traditional English point of view used to be that “wogs” begin at Calais. (Calais is the French port on the English channel closest to England.)

    But there is a word from history that I haven’t heard for 50 years. The “W” word is every bit as offensive if not more offensive than the “N” word.

    At least the “N” word is no more than a colloquial form of the Spanish word for black, whereas the “W” word has always been offensively intended.

    And yet the “W” word has become obsolete, while the “N” word is going stronger than ever. Why is that?

  47. @Jack D

    Steve’s article is the length of a freshman essay but as ambitious as a Master’s thesis, so I think he can be forgiven for not fleshing it out yet.

    For example, the issue of Portuguese knowledge of black Africans is probably more complex than just whether or not someone had some knowledge. Later-stage expeditions involving more advanced ships and more extensive organization would require patrons who expected returns that would come in the form of money and/or knowledge. This would lead to a qualitatively different introduction of information to Europe than would hearsay from merchants who talked to merchants who had been to the sub-Saharan.

    Also, cynically, we can’t dismiss the fact that contact of Iberians with blacks came in the context of sectarian-based slavery. The Greeks and Romans had slavery but, as far as I know, it was non-discriminatory. Portuguese were learning from those Muslims you mention as they went along.

    Then there is the tech gap. Greeks meeting blacks were merchants from low-tech agriculturalist societies meeting other low-tech agriculturalists. Portuguese meeting blacks were captains from relatively developed societies.

    did this view in turn affect how the rest of the West, including the English, viewed them?

    That’s a good question, and I bet somebody has done relevant research. As I asked Steve in a comment he hasn’t approved yet, “what is the relationship of Othello to Schwart Pete?”

  48. @Jonathan Mason

    Does English have a bad word for half-Egyptian -Muslim-pedophile-groomer-apologists?
    I suggest “masonite”.

    ” Damn iSteve blog–he’s always approving those f-ing masonite comments before mine!! ”

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  49. songbird says:

    It is my theory that Othello would have been played in blackface just because it was more visible and exotic for the audience. My view is that is the right way to perform the character, and that Shakespeare never intended for blacks to be flown into England to play the role.

  50. Jack D says:
    @Genome Voyager

    But, just as Steve says about American Indians, no one cares about the Khoe-San (formerly known by the now politically incorrect terms Bushmen or Hottentots). They (especially the San) were primitive hunter-gatherer people (not unlike the Aborigines in Australia) who had no chance against the more aggressive and warlike Bantus (let alone Europeans).

    We think of humans as being the one unique species that has the power to reshape the planet (for better or for worse) with their works but the Bushmen were more like just another kind of animal out there on the savannah, searching for roots and bugs to eat and occasionally preying on an antelope or some small game.

  51. Mr. Anon says:

    During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

    The TINSTAR nonsense (There Is No Such Thing As Race) is especially ridiculous in the context of the ongoing campaign to make everything turn on race, and to cast White people as the perpetual villains of history.

    If there is no such thing as race, how do I as a white man know whom to oppress? Let’s say I get up this morning thinking to myself – as I often do – I’d surely like to oppress some downtrodden minority today. But how do I do it? Do I walk up to random people on the street and ask them “Excuse me, Sir, are you by any chance a Person of Color? And, if you are, may I oppress you today? Please fill out this survey, so that I may learn how to better oppress you in future.”

    If there is no difference between races, how do racist white cops know whom to shoot? Why aren’t racist white cops shooting white people?

    It’s all so confusing.

  52. anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.

    The conventional wisdom is worse than useless for predicting human behavior, but it is extremely useful for creating conflict.

  53. johnm33 says:

    Race ‘evolved’ when the only travel was foot traffic, even then hybridisation would take place either forcefully or by agreement/swaps. Inbreeding would have seriously impacted fertility and intelligence, and consequentially competitiveness, leading to more hybridisation when taken over.
    The last great breakthrough was being hard-wired for language, Aus. aboriginals have stories about when women were ruled the roost, since they acquired speech first. Once hard wired speech arrived it would convey such an advantage that there must be some genetic fingerprint of it’s spread.

  54. anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    This article gets better with every reading, because it is epistemological in nature. That is rare, especially in the Current Year.

    Thanks.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
  55. But, just as Steve says about American Indians, no one cares about the Khoe-San (formerly known by the now politically incorrect terms Bushmen or Hottentots). They (especially the San) were primitive hunter-gatherer people (not unlike the Aborigines in Australia) who had no chance against the more aggressive and warlike Bantus (let alone Europeans).

    No one cares about the bushmen because we don’ t have egalitarians taking 1/3 of our income and telling us that one more trillion should turn them into Swedes. Or that we should import even more of them because White people are evil and their racist joojoo kept the San bushmen from discovering cold fusion.

    There is politics and there is anthropology.

    The current form of anthropology has been completely undermined by leftists because they didn’t like the results.

    What we are engaged in is a political struggle where the establishment has decreed that race doth not exist and that is why these articles are important. It undermines their childish “out of Africa” theory where all races end up with the same distribution of character traits (which comes with the inference that Whites have conspired to acquire their current resources).

    We think of humans as being the one unique species that has the power to reshape the planet (for better or for worse) with their works but the Bushmen were more like just another kind of animal out there on the savannah

    Or there are different human subspecies with differing abilities and there isn’t One True Human just as there isn’t One True Deer. This is the most logical conclusion and absolute heresy to the liberal establishment that tells us they follow the science when it comes to policy.

  56. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    ..That phrase was first uttered by the wonderfully monikered George Wigg MP, a Labour member of parliament, and later a peer, who in a varied and colorful life was variously a professional gambler and officer in the first ever tank regiment.
    Wigg made the remark, in Parliament, in the 1960s, in fact he made it an ironic and facetious sense in order to poke fun at the narrow minds of certain British politicians.

  57. OFF LA TOPIQUE:

    PARIS (AP) — Protesters in Paris and other French cities on Sunday denounced a ruling by France’s highest court that the killer of Jewish woman Sarah Halimi was not criminally responsible and therefore could not go on trial.

    Thousands of people filled Trocadero Plaza in Paris, in front of the Eiffel Tower, answering a call by Jewish associations and groups fighting antisemitism who say that justice has not been done. Other protests took place in Marseille, Lyon, Strasbourg, Bordeaux and elsewhere.

    The announcement that the killer would not be sent to trial sparked outrage among the French and international Jewish community.

    Halimi, a 65-year-old Jewish woman, died in 2017 after being pushed out of the window of her Paris apartment by her neighbor, Kobili Traoré, who allegedly shouted “Allahu Akbar” (“God is great” in Arabic). Traoré admitted pushing her.

    The ruling from the Court of Cassation, issued this month, said there was enough evidence to show the act had antisemitic motives. But the court said a person who committed a crime while in a “delirious state” cannot be sent to trial — even if that state was caused by the habitual use of illegal drugs. Traoré used to smoke heavy quantities of cannabis.

    “According to unanimous opinions of different psychiatry experts, that man was presenting at the time of the facts a severe delirious state,” the court said.

    Literally défenestrée.

  58. Chuck says:

    “But it’s not at all clear that Shakespeare, living a century and a half before Linnaeus and Blumenbach crystallized the Enlightenment’s racial conception of distinct races, thought of races as highly separate.”

    Linnaeus did not have a concept of “race”; rather, following John Ray, he had the category of “varieties” in his systematics, which were geographic varieties i.e., environmentally induced deviations from the normal human form. Blumenbach adopted Linnaeus concept of variety until the mid 1790s when he came under the influence of Kant, and then adopted Kant’s concept of race. Kant was influenced by de Buffon, as he explicitly notes.

    Neither Linnaeus or Blumenbach conceptualized their groupings as “highly separate,” let alone discrete. The only thing you get right is that, following the age of discovery, Europeans began making carteographic classifications to organize global variation. Linnaeus and others applied this to human variation.

    But don’t let the details get in the way of your theory. No one else does.

  59. Well, that certainly puts a new spin on “It’s all Greek to me.”

    I guess “Greek love” will cover all things LGBGTQQIAAPPQWERTYUIOP.

  60. anon[104] • Disclaimer says:

    Not quite OT: FDA is working up to a ban on menthol cigarettes.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-poised-ban-menthol-cigarettes-week-experts-predict-n1265209

    If so it will just create another black market.

    • LOL: JMcG
  61. Steve:

    Another thought-provoking VDare article.

    This iSteve post, which uses the article as a basis for, intel alia, musings about Shakespeare’s views on race and ethnicity also provokes thought. Othello was based on the short story known in English as Disdemona and the Moor from the 1665 collection Gki Hecatommithi by Italian author Giovanni Cinthio. Shakespeare lifted the plot from this story, adding, subtracting or tweaking a few elements, principally Iago’s motivation for screwing with Othello.

    Thus, I’d respectfully suggest that, if we’re talking about what the author meant “a Moor,” the relevant author is Cinthio, not Shakespeare. Cinthio was, of course, writing for Italian readers. Since Italy is situated closer than Britain to the area from which Othello was to have hailed, those readers may have had a more intuitive understanding of the 15th century meaning of the term “Moor” than that of English Jacobean audiences. FWIW.

    Gki Hecatommithi had been translated only into other Romance languages by 1605, the first recorded public performance of the play. So it seems Shakespeare read it in one of those languages. This is yet another reminder that Shakespeare, the son of an illiterate glover maker from the backwater town of Stratford-Upon-Avon, is history’s most accomplished autodidact.

    • Replies: @Etruscan Film Star
  62. “About 20 years ago I read Othello closely and found eight lines suggesting he was a black sub-Saharan and two suggesting he was an olive-skinned Moroccan”

    Considering Othello is the title character I can only assume the theory wherein Shakespeare was the nom de plume for a cabal of dissident writers is correct, or Shakespeare was one guy who smoked weed. I can also assume from the above sentence that my operating theory on Steve — a psychological warfare specialist working for a private espionage firm controlled by Valerie Jarrett — is incorrect. Steve’s just a weirdo.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  63. Steve, your article talks about the Spanish and Portuguese viewing race in terms of absolutes, but how do you explain their contemporary view of race, which is more along the Greek lines? In Spanish and especially Portuguese America, they definitely view race in terms of gradients. And why is it that the Northern European colonizers, such as the English and Dutch, viewed (and still view) race in more absolute terms, even going as far to establish “one drop” rules?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @syonredux
  64. @candid_observer

    Environmentalism, anti-racism, public health: the trinity super-spreaders of totalitarianism.

  65. anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:

    Republicans no longer view white minority America as negative. It’s not simply because people don’t want to tell pollsters they don’t like minorities, a lot of Republicans now go along with the idea that slavery is the original sin of America and Latino illegal immigrants play a role in the salvation of the nation. Only by disarming white power are we saved.

    The overall decline in shares who say that the long-term growth in racial and ethnic diversity is bad for the country has been primarily driven by Republicans and Republican-leaning independents. While Republicans are more likely than Democrats to say this change would be bad for the country (19% of Republicans vs. 4% of Democrats), the share of Republicans who express this view has declined by 20 points since 2016.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/01/americans-are-more-positive-about-the-long-term-rise-in-u-s-racial-and-ethnic-diversity-than-in-2016/

    • Replies: @Corn
  66. @Anonymous

    “What interests you about the question?”

    Possible Postal Service internet spy at work. Quite possibly a guy using HBD as a cloak for a pygmy obsession. He’s just a guy who likes to think about pygmies.

    • LOL: PiltdownMan
  67. epebble says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Can you give the source of your quotes? Thanks.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  68. J.Ross says:
    @candid_observer

    It’s interesting also the need to shame and the ignorant over-reliance on consensus. Gravity is there whether you believe it or not. A discovery censored will eventually be rediscovered.

  69. AndrewR says:
    @Anonymous

    Lol do you really think the tribe is only trynna sell out “Western” countries?

  70. Great article as a whole. The point about Shakespeare being a showman needs to be emphasized to every scholar who pores over his works for cultural evidence: he labels the Danes as violent drunks, and the Italians as passionate and violent, both of which help his audience grasp the story line quickly. And I suspect that the hyper-Catholic worldview he posits in most of his plays is just better as a backdrop for stories in which witches and ghosts are actors, not evidence of widespread pre-modern views in England.

    From the perspective of devil’s advocate, I’d amplify that differences within races, caused by cultural choices, can be quite large: technically Middle Easterners are Caucasian, but their national IQ scores are not that far from sub-Saharan Africans. Lots of reasons for that, but the insular societies that almost exclusively marry first cousins and who read their sacred scriptures with extreme literal application based on their own misogyny help explain some of the difference. And the comments above highlight the sizable Khoisan-Bantu divide, even as our cultural vision of white-black relegates them to the same category.

    All in all a refreshing and fearless take in our stale and fearful times.

  71. anon[314] • Disclaimer says:

    OT From paywalled WSJ:

    You wouldn’t know it from recent headlines, but there’s good news about race in the U.S. today. The pessimism peddled on the left by pundits and elected officials is in the service of an ideological agenda, and it’s probably doing more real harm to race relations than any actual racism.

    A big part of the problem is that the political press has never come to grips with Donald Trump’s election in 2016. The media didn’t anticipate it, refused to accept it, and have been willfully misinterpreting the reasons for it. Their preferred narrative is that racists, sexists and xenophobes put Mr. Trump in the White House, thus demonstrating that hatred and bigotry in the U.S. are ascendant. But is it true?

    First, it’s worth clarifying (yet again) that former supporters of Barack Obama, not white nationalists, were the voters responsible for Mr. Trump’s election. Only occasionally did the establishment media acknowledge this in its reporting. “It’s clear that large numbers of white, working-class voters shifted from the Democrats to Mr. Trump,” reads a New York Times dispatch from 2017. “He flipped millions of white working-class Obama supporters to his side. The voter file data makes it impossible to avoid this conclusion.”

    If journalists haven’t avoided this conclusion entirely, they’ve spent far more time pushing an alternative explanation that cites supposed racial retrenchment in the U.S. as the main driver of Mr. Trump’s political success. The fruits of this effort are laid bare by political scientist Eric Kaufmann in a compelling new report from the Manhattan Institute. Using survey data, Mr. Kaufmann notes that racial attitudes have been trending toward more tolerance for well over half a century, even as black politicians (Mr. Obama, Kamala Harris ), professional polemicists (Ta-Nehisi Coates, Ibram X. Kendi ) and major media organs (the New York Times’s “1619 Project”) continue to insist otherwise.

    There is more, but this is the basic thought.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  72. AndrewR says:
    @Jack D

    People always pretend to care about the red man on Columbus Day or Thanksgiving, or any other day when a white person has the Caucasity to want to restrict immigration.

    But when you point out that open borders do not in any way help the “Native Americans” they purport to care about, they get real quiet.

  73. @Malla

    I think differences between Europeans are often still very big despite many attempts, especially by EU officials and supporters to make out that all Europeans are just one big family with tons in common. For example i would seriously suggest that the Germanic countries culturally have a lot more in common with the advanced east Asian countries than they do with less progressive Balkan and Mediterranean countries, there are of course many huge differences too but the similarity in many respects is clear. What is however apparent to just about anyone is just how different Black Africans are, there is indeed a very noticeable difference with Blacks and everyone else and that is clear in many ways.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Anonymous
    , @Malla
  74. @Jack D

    We think of humans as being the one unique species that has the power to reshape the planet (for better or for worse) with their works but the Bushmen were more like just another kind of animal out there on the savannah, searching for roots and bugs to eat and occasionally preying on an antelope or some small game.

    Exactly!

    Extrapolate this idea to “Climate Change™, née Global Warming™,” or anything else for that matter, and you are onto something.

    Each of us is “just another kind of animal” that is part of a much, much larger, much, much more powerful system that we still do not understand fully. Efforts to “do something about it” — which are mostly pushed by propaganda, and which disproportionately harm US — are silly, or misguided, or even evil and aimed against us.

    This preoccupation with the equivalent of bushmen is equal to infantilism. There is even a sexual fetish about that. Pretty soon, diapering (as with our faces now!) will be required by law, along with pegging.

  75. the left: there’s no such thing as race

    also the left: when police kill somebody, we know exactly what race they are

    reaction to all events now flows directly from what race all the participants were. but also, there are no such thing as white people, white nations, white accomplishments, or white interests.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  76. @Jonathan Mason

    If that was truly the “traditional English view” and not just cheeky Victorian humor, why did so many English men and women marry French people throughout the centuries? Huguenot refugees were totally absorbed into the British population in both England and colonial America during the 1600s. Was just as often French man/English woman marriages as it was the reverse.

  77. @Jack D

    searching for roots and bugs to eat and occasionally preying on an antelope or some small game.

    And now Gates and crew want us, we the underclass, to eat insects, just like the Africans do! in order to save the planet.

    And the thought occurred to me that mayhaps the incredible leaps in technology and theoretical knowledge over the last two centuries may have been made possible by the meat-protein rich diet that the American pioneers ate. The brain needs plenty of high quality protein for its development.

    As Jack says, Africans weren’t really that good at procuring meat protein. That’s why there are so many types of big game on the continent today. Until they traded with the British in the 19th century for muskets, Africans could not consistently bag big game and therefore lacked sufficient high quality protein for brain development. Nature conserves. What protein the African harvested went into their bodies, the brains atrophied compared to we Europeans who were more proficient at harvesting big game (going back 40,000 years when we moved up into Europe and exploited the abundant game there). A positive feedback cycle developed.

    The upshot being that Gates, in promoting grasshoppers and grubs as tomorrow’s substitute for red meat may inadvertently be reversing the course of evolution. Future generations will have less high quality protein for higher brain development and therefore be less capable of high powered cognition.

    Ironic, huh? The guy who rode the wave of high intelligence software to riches and fame shall be responsible for cretinizing the human race. Ironic but typical in a sense. Blinded by hubris, Gates blunders forward into fields where we all see through a glass darkly and into which he, with his aspergery myopia, sees not at all.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @anonymous coward
  78. Ironically, the Portuguese colony of Brazil has become known for its interracial mixing and spectrum-like analysis of racial taxonomy within the nation.

    Meanwhile, as we all learned from True Romance, calling a Sicilian a moor or a negro is really not a way to be treated nicely.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @El Dato
  79. What the hell?

    • Replies: @Tex
  80. anon[216] • Disclaimer says:

    As geneticist David Reich of Harvard told poor, intellectually overmatched Angela Saini, sub-Saharans versus everybody else have been evolving largely separately for 70,000 years. This presumably accounts for why sub-Saharans tend to be interesting to other races …

    … interesting …

    Talk about a loaded word … that one carries more freight than all the trains streaming out of The Port of Houston!

  81. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Somehow this sort of thing has become inevitable: Black Mom Sues School After She Says Biracial Son Received Failing Grade In Sociology Class for Refusing to Confess His ‘White Dominance’

    https://atlantablackstar.com/2021/03/15/lawsuit-biracial-high-school-student-receives-failing-grade-in-sociology-class-after-refusing-to-attach-aspects-of-identity-to-oppression-and-dominance/

    You know, if they just taught the 3 Rs, and avoided the subject of race entirely, they’d avoid the lawsuits. Schools got along just fine 50 years, 100 years ago, without teaching about race. Obsessing over race was not, and still isn’t, the business of schools at all.

    You only teach about race if you want to harass, divide, and create hostility among the students in your classroom. It’s teachers trying to bully students and using SJW ideology as an excuse to do it.

    Our current generation of teachers needs to undergo psychological testing for their fitness to teach. Many of them seem to be bullies who enjoy tormenting kids instead of teaching them.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    , @El Dato
  82. El Dato says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes and they are already being Dreyfussed hard.

    French defense minister threatens ‘sanctions’ against ex-generals behind open letter blasting Islamism and ‘suburban hordes’

    The minister argued that even retired military personnel were bound by the duty to refrain from voicing political opinions in public, and the actions of the letter’s signatories were unacceptable and irresponsible. Parly said she has directed the Chief of the Defense Staff to apply “sanctions” against the ex-officers.

    “The military statute, which is known to everyone, permits the military to have opinions, but limits their expression to the private sphere,” Parly said.

    In other words, “shut up she explained.”

    Note that Minister of the Armies Madame Parly is a revolving door occupant for the boards or large french conglomerates. Telling military that they are being insulted by ex-top brass is going to pass well.

    Meanwhile Rudy under investigation for corruption related to Ukraine: Federal investigators execute search warrant at NYC apartment of former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Silly me, I though corruption related to Ukraine was a Biden family thing.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  83. @oliver elkington

    Look closely, even superficially, at non-Europeans, and you will find the same kinds of inter-tribal, inter-ethnic competitions and conflicts.

    Brothers, sisters and cousins fight now and then. That does not mean they are not part of the same family.

    Europeans are indeed a family, a race, just like the three or four others around the world. Do not let anyone distract you from this fact — as indeed they try to.

    • Replies: @oliver elkington
  84. Abe says:
    @Jack D

    It’s an interesting thesis but is it true? Was there really a difference in the way the Iberians viewed the African races vs. the way that the ancient Greek viewed them and did this view in turn affect how the rest of the West, including the English, viewed them?

    Great essay, but too much of the whiff of “childhood wasn’t invented until the Victorian Era”, methinks. The Romans, who had access to both sides of the Mediterranean, seemed to have had pretty commonsensical idea about racial differences, though whether they really thought of race in terms of near-continent sized groupings is not settled by the below, I guess.

    Yet behold, primary source evidence! From THE SATYRICON, where the zany heroes discuss escaping capture by engaging in probably the first recorded instance of Kimmel-face. Note also the attention to Negroid differences is so minute he even discusses adding extremely deep wrinkles/furrows to the forehead- a la blacks like Danny Glover-

    “I have thought up a scheme, see what you think of it! Eumolpus is a man of letters. He will have ink about him, of course. With this remedy, then, let’s change our complexions, from hair to toe-nails! Then, in the guise of Ethiopian slaves, we shall be ready at hand to wait upon you, light-hearted as having escaped the torturer, and, with our altered complexions, we can impose upon our enemies!”

    “Yes, indeed,” sneered Giton, “and be sure and circumcise us, too, so we will be taken for Jews, pierce our ears so we will look like Arabs, chalk our faces so that Gaul will take us for her own sons; as if color alone could change one’s figure! As if many other details did not require consideration if a passable imposture is to result! Even granting that the stained face can keep its color for some time, suppose that not a drop of water should spot the skin, suppose that the garment did not stick to the ink, as it often does, where no gum is used, tell me! We can’t make our lips so hideously thick, can we? We can’t kink our hair with a curling-iron, can we? We can’t harrow our foreheads with scars, can we? We can’t force our legs out into the form of a bow or walk with our ankle-bones on the ground, can we? Can we trim our beards after the foreign style? No! Artificial color dirties the body without changing it. Listen to the plan which I have thought out in my desperation; let’s tie our garments around our heads and throw ourselves into the deep!”

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  85. @Buzz Mohawk

    Europeans are rather 3 distinct races or at least 2 distinct races and one that is a mixture of two races, how i see it you have the Nordics, that includes most of the peoples of the North of Europe including France and Russia, the Alpines which would be a substantial part of the peoples of the North Mediterranean, east Europe and again into southern Russia and central Asia and then the Mediterranean’s who are really a mix of the two former elements and a pure Mediterranean type seen in north Africa and west Asia. As someone who has Spanish ancestry and has been to Spain many times i can say that there really is not much to bind the Spanish and the British apart from perhaps a dislike of Moroccans!

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  86. Hodag says:

    https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/27/free-busing-new-magnet-schools-integration-orders-mn-agrees-63m-annual-plan-settle-cruz-guzman-lawsuit/

    If approved there will be city-suburban busing of schoolchildren in the Minneapolis metro. Think you bought a nice house in the burbs so your children can go to school safely? Think again.

  87. 3g4me says:
    @Anon

    @63 Anon[319]: Oh, you’re so wise. If we were all the same color – just a sort of light brown or cafe-au-lait – then they couldn’t divide ‘us’ and we’d foil their nefarious plans. After all, there’s no ‘hostility among students’ of different races naturally – it’s all artificially introduced by teachers. Why hasn’t anyone figured this out before?

    • Replies: @Anon
  88. @prime noticer

    but also, there are no such thing as white people, white nations, white accomplishments, or white interests.

    Yes, there are, but they are all soaked in guilt. – That is the new perspective.

    And the new equation goes like this: Accept universal white guilt and then realize that this is a much higher accomplishment than anything that has been achieved so far in human civilization.

    Putting guilt at No. 1 diminishes accomplishments, ingenuity, striving, pride. – Luck, happiness, and bliss.

    Since being nice, inventive, productive, and competitive is being perceived more and more as racial, misery shall be the big new normal. A new logic and a brand new value system.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
  89. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Obviously, there is absolutely no ‘right of free speech’ in France.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
  90. anon[307] • Disclaimer says:

    it’s funny (or is it?) how some fear that the SS will ride again.

    watson & crick happened AFTER the war. the nazis had no idea.

    supposedly…it has been learned that (AFTER) humans are the most homogeneous species there is at genetic level because recent and because bottlenecks.

    but OBVIOUSLY humans aren’t like other species. a smidgen is a dollop.

    i pray that steve will some day quit his job as a professional wrestling announcer.

    a trillion years from now hitler will have a jewish girlfriend.

  91. @Chrisnonymous

    Maybe that’s because I don’t make anonymous ad hominem attacks on other posters.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
    • Thanks: Abe
  92. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @oliver elkington

    Obviously, you know very very little about the lives, thoughts and passions of continental Europeans and how they came to be.
    Either you are a Brit or an American who simply doesn’t *know* continental Europeans, though you just, might, have holidayed there – and there think you are an expert.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  93. Dube says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    And yet the “W” word has become obsolete, while the “N” word is going stronger than ever. Why is that?

    They are my subjects, and you are to address them as worthy oriental gentlemen, said the Queen.

    Yes Ma’am, or w.o.g.s for short. It’s an inside joke, as you know, Jonathan. So I guess that the answer to your question is an inside answer.

  94. SafeNow says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “From the excerpt with the geography factors that are part of the history, I know I’m gonna like the column (as usual). Big geography buff here!”

    Agreed! Now, to test and interest your geography buffiness….

    1. Which U.S. State is closest to Africa?
    2. What country do you hit first when you go south from Detroit?
    3. Which US State is the easternmost?

  95. Vlad III says:

    Minor correction: The Burton/Speake expedition that discovered Lake Victoria took place in the late 1850s, though Speake would later return sans Burton in the 1860s.

    Unrelated: the intimidation of witnesses “on the wrong side of history” continues: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/24/990536193/maryland-to-probe-cases-handled-by-ex-medical-examiner-who-testified-in-chauvin-

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  96. Tex says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    When you live in a banana republic, you an expect the current regime to try and lock up members of the previous regime.

  97. @epebble

    That was from Roger Crowley’s “Conquerers”.

    • Thanks: epebble
  98. vhrm says:

    This article, while informative and interesting in itself, it a miss with me when applied to modern day social issues.

    For one thing in ancient times there was a lot less separation between race and culture and even geography. Since neither people nor culture moved around as quickly as they do now. Thus it would be rather difficult to accurately tease out the contribution of these three variables to whatever differences are observed.

    Next, the reason that it’s not particularly applicable to today is because on main socially relevant abilities “the differences within races are larger than the differences between races” at least in the US.

    AFAICT there is no right or duty that should attach to a person because they are black or because they are white. If we do want to give different levels of freedom or power to different individuals we already know that IQ is a better measure than race, or, better yet just develop tests relevant for that domain and allow individuals who pass them to do those things.
    Want to drive? pass driving school and the driving test.
    Want to be a doctor? score well on the MCAT and pass med school classes and make it through internship.
    Want do be a lawyer? take the classes, pass the bar, do the work.

    Are you violent and hurt people? go to juvie and be rehabilitated whether through therapy, punishment or both.
    Still violent and anti-social? go to prison for some more of the same.

    Adjudicated too dumb or too crazy to operate in society? fine… you are then segregated from such. etc. etc.

    Of course this will end up with different races overrepresented in different parts of society, as they are now, but that is pretty well explainable in terms of non-racial terms.

    Finally, it is absolutely true that people COULD generate unfair and irrelevant tests or arguments to exclude people from certain rights or professions and it is fair to examine such things on a regular basis and modify them to see if that appears to be the case. The problem is with those who assume that any disparate outcome on racial groups is inherent proof of ill will or unfair discrimination.

    • Replies: @utu
  99. @oliver elkington

    The fact that you put France and Russia in your same category of “people of the North of Europe” belies your provincial, Spanish perspective.

    From my perspective, I do not see the French as northern European at all, but, rather, a mix of north and south, as determined by their latitude and history.

    There is no end to how far you can divide things. We were taught in school that the ancient Greeks (Europeans, by the way, and probably more White then than now) thought hard about how far you could cut up things before you would get to something immutable.

    Thus, the atom.

    Thus, the individual human being.

    I have a neighbor in one direction who is from Portugal (the next-door country of your cousins, LOL.) He built his own company here — in the land my ancestors built up into the greatest, richest nation in the history of mankind — and then he built his McMansion behind my property.

    In the other direction, up the road, I have neighbors from India. I have no idea where their money comes from, but here they are.

    Still, in another direction, I have Chinese neighbors.

    Now, you tell me, to which neighbor do I feel closer to? The answer is obvious: the same one you feel close to — because you are, and I am, European.

    • Replies: @Cido
  100. Anon[181] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always thought “Wogs begin at Calais” was a delightful expression for Americans to use, simultaneously and equally insulting to (a) South Asians, (b) French, (c) All Other Europeans, and (d) Britis

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  101. CCG says:
    @Anonymous

    Othello is the Renaissance version of “Burn the Coal, Pay the Toll.”

  102. @Anonymous

    “To say Japanese culture was ever superior to Europeans is just outrageous. ”

    It was different, that’s for sure. Today you can walk safely anywhere in Tokyo, at any hour of the day or night. Can’t do that in Washington or any US city I can think of. Maybe Seattle forty years back. Salt Lake City perhaps?

    Churchill:

    Europe had first heard of their existence from Marco Polo about A.D. 1300. The religion of the Japanese nation was a form of Buddhism. The later incursion of the Christian missionaries, the devotion of their converts, and their fierce-fought extermination had been an episode little noticed in Europe. The merciless slaughter of the Christian population, numbering over a quarter of a million, took twenty-four years, and was finished around the year 1638.

    After this deed Japan plunged into strict seclusion, and had remained almost unknown for many generations when the nineteenth century with its own strident challenges broke upon the world. There had been a spell of complete isolation. The arts, culture, and faith of the Japanese had supported a rigid structure of society. Science, machinery, and Western philosophies did not exist
    for them.

    But the steam engine altered the proportions of the globe, and about a hundred years ago ships arrived from across the ocean spaces and knocked at the well-barred feudal doors of Japan with weapons and ideas. For some time after Commodore Perry’s American squadron had paid its
    unwelcome visit in 1853 a British or American gunboat could enforce the will of a British or American Government upon the external behaviour of the Japanese State. With the foreign warships came the revelation of the wonderful tricks which the White Man had found out, and which he was prepared to teach or sell. The gaunt and grave civilisation of the thirteenth century was presented with that of the nineteenth, grinning, prosperous, and well armed.

    Uncle Sam and Britannia were the godparents of the new Japan. In less than two generations, with no background but the remote past, the Japanese people advanced from the two-handed sword of the Samurai to the ironclad ship, the rifled cannon, the torpedo, and the Maxim gun; and a
    similar revolution took place in industry. The transition of Japan under British and American guidance from the Middle Ages to modern times was swift and violent. China was surpassed and smitten. It was with amazement that the world saw in 1905 the defeat of Czarist Russia, not only on the sea, but by great armies transported to the mainland and winning enormous battles in Manchuria.

    Japan now took her place among the Great Powers. The Japanese were themselves astonished at the respect with which they were viewed. “When we sent you the beautiful products of our ancient arts and culture you despised and laughed at us; but since we have got a first-class Navy and Army with good weapons we are regarded as a highly civilised nation.”

    But all they had added was the trappings and panoply of applied science. All was on the surface. Behind stood Old Japan. I remember how in my youth the British caricaturists were wont to depict Japan as a smart, spruce, uniformed messenger-boy. Once I saw an American cartoon in quite a
    different style. An aged priestly warrior towered up, august and formidable, with his hand upon his dagger.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  103. El Dato says:
    @Anon

    Today’s pickings are rich. Among the increasingly hysterical anti-Russian shenanigans, we find these nuggets:

    If Forstater, sacked over transgender comments, loses tribunal appeal, no one with a job can claim to have free speech

    Incredibly, not only was Forstater dismissed for expressing her beliefs but, in 2019, an employment judge ruled that the company she worked for was right to sack her. The judge declared her opinions to be “absolutist” and “incompatible with human dignity and fundamental rights of others.” He decided that a belief in the existence of two sexes – something many people, myself included, would argue is not a belief at all but a scientific fact – is “not worthy of respect in a democratic society” and therefore “not a philosophical belief protected by the Equality Act.”

    We will see how that goes.

    And then:

    Pressure mounts on Charles Michel in ‘Sofagate’ sexism row as Ursula von der Leyen speaks of ‘hurt’ following Turkey trip snub

    > “Women are independent and do need no man”
    > Erdogan puts this to the test and doesn’t provide seating implement for Ursula as the only available seat is occupied by Charles Michel’s ass
    > Ursula still upset a month or so later
    > Cries of “Charles Michel should have defended La Leyden against sexist Turkish President Erdogan”
    > His career is over
    > Probably just didn’t want to create a fuss
    > He’s not exactly Bismarck material either
    > Oy vey Europe and your strong women and pale men!

    In further news:

    This killing of a white cop shows that thanks to US media promoting the ‘racist cop’ narrative, officers are now being targeted

    This week, NYPD Officer Anastasio Tsakos, working to guide traffic around the scene of an accident, was mowed down by a vehicle driven by Jessica Beauvais, 32, a black American woman who just hours earlier had live-streamed a hate-filled invective against, yes, police officers. Now, Tsakos, a father of two young children, is dead, while Beauvais faces up to 15 years in prison on 13 charges, including vehicular manslaughter in the second degree and leaving the scene of an accident.

    Its guess it’s good she didn’t hit an obese antiracist, otherwise she would be looking at several life sentences.

    Ultimately, the greatest victim of this toxic atmosphere that is being nurtured between police officers and minorities will be innocent citizens, who will find themselves increasingly deprived of law enforcement at the crucial moment. Therefore, it is incumbent on the media to get the story on police violence straight, before it’s too late.

    Too late for that bro. Much too late.

    To stay on-topic: Alexander whips the armies of Darius, takes Egypt, visits the Sanctuary of Amon, learns about the Phoenician expedition around Africa, educates himself about Earth being a sphere, decides to build a local datastore and sends an expedition up the Nile. Next stop: More whipping of more armies of the hapless Darius. Those were the times!

    Carlo Marcello draws, Mino Milani and Pierre Castex are scenarists:

    [MORE]

  104. utu says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The explanation for the differences between Spanish and Portuguese vs. English and Dutch should be looked in the religion and especially in Old Testament which Spanish and Portuguese did not read and did not care for while for English and Dutch it was so important that fantasies about the identification with the ancient Hebrews (being a lost tribe and so on) existed and were not discouraged. And as we know Hebrews and their god of the Old Testament were not big fans of miscegenation.

    Portuguese made miscegenation a part of their civilizational doctrine.

    ‘LONGING FOR ONESELF’: HYBRIDISM AND MISCEGENATION IN COLONIAL AND POSTCOLONIAL PORTUGAL
    http://ceas.iscte.pt/etnografica/docs/vol_06/N1/Vol_vi_N1_181-200.pdf

    I think an article on concepts of race as a function of religion would be much more fruitful because as you observed the cases of Spain and Portugal which had longer traditions of exploration than England and the Netherlands undermine the hypothesis that Mr. Sailer tries to sketch.

  105. vhrm says:
    @Anonymous

    Obviously, you know very very little about the lives, thoughts and passions of continental Europeans and how they came to be.
    Either you are a Brit or an American who simply doesn’t *know* continental Europeans, though you just, might, have holidayed there – and there think you are an expert.

    What do you believe he got wrong or find objectionable? I think that he’s right in that continental Europeans covers some cultural variation especially as you move NW to SE.

    As to the passions of Europeans (UK included) over the past two to three thousand years… certainly fighting with each other and trying to subjugate one another has featured prominently. Just like it has everywhere else.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  106. SMK says: • Website
    @Polistra

    In discussing race, and understanding its importance, it’s imperative to distinguish between groups and individuals. Those who deny the importance of race emphasize the immense variation among individuals of the same race and among individuals of different races to argue that “race doesn’t exist” apart from skin color and other negligible and superficial physical characteristics.

    While it’s true that a minority of negros are more intelligent than most “Asians” and Europeans and that the most intelligent negros are far more intelligent than the least intelligent “Asians” and Europeans, Europeans and “Asians” as groups and on average are far more intelligent than sub-Saharan Africans. And the latter reality is far more significant than the former in that it largely explains why pure or almost pure negros -whether in Africa, Haiti, the US, Brazil, the UK, etc.- are far more violent and criminal as groups and on average than “Asians” and Europeans and why all black societies and cultures (nations, black majority cities, sections of nations and cities, e.g., Detroit, Baltimore, Northern Brazil, the south side of Chicago, etc.) are hell-holes.

  107. utu says:
    @vhrm

    Tribalism & Racism among the Ancient Greeks
    http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/AGRacism.pdf

    “… I wish all of you now that the wars are coming to an end, to live happily in peace. All mortals from now on shall live like one people, united and peacefully working forwards a common prosperity. You should regard the whole world as your country – a country where the best govern-, with common laws and no racial distinctions. I do not separate people as many narrow minded others do, into Greeks and Barbarians. I’m not interested in the origin or race of citizens. I only distinguish them on the basis of their virtue. For me each good foreigner is a Greek and each bad Greek is a barbarian. If ever there appear differences among you, you must not resolve them by taking to arms; you should resolve them in peace. If need be, I shall act as your negotiator. You must not think of God as an authoritarian ruler, but you should consider him as common father, so that your conduct resembles the uniform behavior of brothers who belong to the same family. For my part I consider all -whether they be white or black-, equal, and I would like you to be not only the subjects of my common-wealth, but also participants and partners. Within my powers I shall endeavor to fulfill all my promises. You should regard the oath we have taken tonight as a symbol of love…” – THE “OATH” OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT
    – SPEECH BY ALEXANDER THE GREAT AT OPIS (ASSYRIA), IN 324 BC, TO SOME 9,000 DIGNITARIES AND NOBLES OF ALL NATIONS

    • Thanks: vhrm, epebble
  108. It might be easier to view humans as one race but different breeds like we do with cats, dogs, fish, or even our aviary friends.

    Just like dogs can be bred for intelligence, looks (subjective), hair color, etc., along with a vast array of other genealogical traits. https://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/characteristics

    Of course, all animals only retain their own unique breed characteristics if they copulate within their own specific genetic lineage.

    [MORE]

    How easy would it be to breed, say, ethnic Germans, into Han Chinese? And, you could only breed Germans with other Germans containing the same genetic lineage. Could you do it 10 generations? Two thousand years?

    Trick question: If a White Caucasian from modern day Spain (Hispaniola region) were to meet and copulate with someone from modern day Mongolia and produce a child. Would that child be considered Hispanic/Latino if born in the US, Mexico, Central America, or Mongolia?

    It’s been postulated that the North and South American continent were populated with people from that region (Mongolia). Since that area of the world at the time was closer to the Arctic land bridge. But, I suspect more than one genetic tribe traveled that land bridge along with other tribes that arrived following the coastline. That’s why I suspect the Inuit/Eskimo tribes have distinctly different traits than Amerindians further south. It’s possible that group arrived from upper Siberia since they span all the way over to Scandinavia.

  109. Anon[445] • Disclaimer says:
    @3g4me

    If you want to be taught morals, go to church. It’s not the job of schools to teach morals. Leftists are trying to turn schools into churches, if you haven’t noticed. Schools are supposed to teach knowledge and skills, and they do little enough of that as it is.

    • Replies: @3g4me
  110. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “Because the word “Moor” was understood to be non-black”

    There’s an English word, “blackamoor”, used to describe any dark-skinned African, which was in use in the UK in 1596, when a German merchant called Caspar Van Senden applied for permission to “take up…Blackamoores here in this Realm and to transport them into Spain and Portugal” and was still in use among older people in the 1960s. There are various Blackamoor Lanes and Blackamoor Inns in the UK.

    There’s also the Blackamoor decorative style.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackamoor_(decorative_arts)

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  111. prosa123 says:

    Ironically, the Portuguese colony of Brazil has become known for its interracial mixing and spectrum-like analysis of racial taxonomy within the nation.

    Not surprising. While everyone thinks of the African slave trade in terms of the US South and maybe the Caribbean, Brazil got far more than anywhere else. Combine that with relatively few past taboos on racial mixing and immigration from many countries and it’s quite predictable that Brazilians think of race in spectrum terms.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  112. It’s not an idea, it’s an offensive.

  113. jb says:
    @PhysicistDave

    One can believe (as I do) that at the individual level culture and individual differences trump race, while at the same time believing (as I also do) that at the population level, when you are averaging over a large number of individuals, race does in fact explain a lot. The two ideas are not contradictory at all. Indeed, one might argue that this is the central insight that distinguishes HBD from racism.

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    , @3g4me
  114. @Anon

    Color spectrum, light refraction experiment, prism.

    • Replies: @Anon
  115. Anonymous[939] • Disclaimer says:
    @Torn and Frayed

    The key to Foucault is identifying yourself as oppressed and society’s dominant power structure as oppressors. This framing should come very easily to the dissident right and with this power alignment Foucault becomes quite useful as a frame of reference.

    How is this helpful in any way?

  116. Ron Unz says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    In other words, it wasn’t a major issue in Shakespeare’s time, because he explicitly stated he was a Moor. The Moors weren’t known for being black. Granted Afro-centric historians have recently attempted to claim them, but that doesn’t alter the fact that the Moors were North African and thus non-Sub Saharan…This fact is borne out by for the first three and a half centuries, white actors played Othello. Because the word “Moor” was understood to be non-black.

    That would be my impression as well.

    I’m no expert in that era, but I think terms like “Nubian” or “Ethiopian” would have been more likely to designate black Africans.

  117. Rob McX says:

    The Left has never explained why Mother Nature has been keeping her thumb on the human evolution pause button this last 50,000 years.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
  118. Ian Smith says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “ What is interesting that Arabs are, as far as I know, the only race that has voluntarily mixed with blacks (Arabs being, of course, Levantines, i.e. Caucasians or slightly tanned whites). I don’t have an explanation for that”

    The segregation of men and women makes Arab men really horny. All snark aside, I think Arabs banged their slaves for the same reason men in Brazil and Antebellum Virginia did: lack of better options.

    The 72 Houris are supposed to be light skinned. Jihadis aren’t martyring themselves for 72 twerking rap video extras.

    • Replies: @Alden
  119. @utu

    Portugal’s population during the Age of Exploration was maybe 1 million. There weren’t enough Portuguese to man their empire without mixing with locals.

    In contrast, Britain had surplus population to send to its colonies.

  120. Cido says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    From my perspective, I do not see the French as northern European at all, but, rather, a mix of north and south, as determined by their latitude and history

    I agree. French people are a mix of Southern and Northern Europeans. This reflects even in French people temperament. They aren’t as cold as Northern Europeans nor as warm as Southern Europeans.

    • Replies: @oliver elkington
  121. @prosa123

    Brazil has a spectrum racial category (“Pardo”), but they also have whites, blacks, Japanese, and Indians who are pretty much as labeled on the tin.

  122. @Dave Pinsen

    In contrast, Britain had surplus population to send to its colonies.

    As well as a three-way religious war which operated centrifugally. This is what killed New Sweden and New Netherland– the home countries were too united and too prosperous to leave, and the colonies filled up with foreigners.

    They were certainly competent, but had little loyalty to fight for their hosts.

  123. Truth says:
    @utu

    And as we know Hebrews and their god of the Old Testament were not big fans of miscegenation.

    How would that be possible when Moses married an Ethiopian, and his sister and brother were cursed by God for objecting?

    • Replies: @utu
  124. AndrewR says:
    @Torn and Frayed

    I’ve never seriously read Foucault or any other philosopher going back to Plato. I figure others will have digested their work and separated the wheat from the chaff already.

    It is clear that power relations have almost done a 180 since the 1960s. It’s impossible to imagine the FBI harassing any BLM figure the way they (rightfully) harassed MLK. Everyone on the dissident right knows this and absolutely no one in power (or in service of power) will admit this.

    So what do we do?

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Torn and Frayed
  125. @candid_observer

    He’s the guy who recently cited the fact “that people dance the Merengue more in the Dominican Republic than they do in Korea” as evidence against significant heritability of IQ. True story.

    He can’t be stupid enough to be fooling himself. Who does he think he’s fooling?

  126. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Maybe but Shakespeare also refers to Othello as thick-lips and and as and old black ram (not dark mind you black) so who knows. Shakespeare was prone to carelessness and in his case he really mixed his signals- since as you say no one in Tudor England would have associated Moors with dark black skin. Ludvico Sforza, patron of da Vinci, was called the Moor and in not a single depiction is he darker than Ron Unz.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  127. @PhysicistDave

    But different races clearly have different cultures, even when living side by side for centuries. Where do those cultural differences come from, do you suppose?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  128. @Ron Unz

    I sat in the front row for a performance of Othello at the Colorado Shakespeare Festival.

    Val Kilmer played Hamlet that year, and I found him a place to say for the summer — as part of my job.

    The lead in Othello, an American, very black actor, spit on me when he was reciting his lines. He could not help it, and I did not blame him. I was surprised, however.

    I enjoyed the play, and I thought his performance was very good, spit and all.

  129. Anonymous[939] • Disclaimer says:

    Do people mostly just differ slightly from their neighbors in a steady progression of blurry differences around the world? Or is it more helpful in organizing our knowledge of human variation to think of most individuals as belonging to largely separate major races?

    What are the implications of the answer? What is the import of whether groups are distinct in significant ways or whether they are continuous?

  130. @Ron Unz

    Bingo. And Western Europeans generally were aware that, skin colorwise, Ethiopians and Nubians weren’t like the Arabs.

    Funny, it’s not like Steve to take the bait and go all PC on issues such as these. Perhaps it’s merely a one off.

  131. @Anon

    Cities? Metro areas? Neighborhoods? Galaxies?

  132. Anonymous[939] • Disclaimer says:

    Hence, the ancient Greeks tended to see race as more a matter of degree, while the worldview that grew out of Portuguese and Spanish explorations saw it more as a matter of kind. …

    Steve, your argument (as presented here) seems to assume that the subsaharan West African populations due south of Portugal were similar to the Northeast African populations of Egypt, Ethiopia, even Kenya, that were nearer to Greece. In other words, that the two groups, all traits considered, had the same proximity to Europeans. Is that a plausible assumption?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  133. Speaking of Shakespeare, in 1596 Queen Elizabeth I issued an “open letter” to the Lord Mayor of London in which she said there are of late divers blackmoores brought into this realme, of which kinde of people there are allready here to manie. She later reiterated her good pleasure to have those kinde of people sent out of the lande i.e., deportations. In 1601, she complained again about the great numbers of Negars and Blackamoors which are crept into this realm.

    She is yet to be canceled but her mother Anne Boleyn was recently portrayed by a black woman.

    For Jewish author Miranda Kaufmann this is proof that the British Isles has always been multiracial. However, her book Black Tudors was dismissed by other historians as a work of fiction.

    Race denialism is a recent dogma. A while back even most people on the left were realists like pacifist and UK politician Edmund Dene Morel. He was a vocal critic of the French Army’s use of Senegalese and other African soldiers in Germany after WWI.

    Saini is an opportunist like Adam Rutherford who is also Indian (half) and has a “science” show on BBC radio which he presents with “feminist” mathematician Hannah Fry. They have to subscribe to politically correct positions.

    • Replies: @Anon
  134. @Buzz Mohawk

    Look what you just wrote: An AMERICAN actor, so naturally they make Othello out to be literally black a la 21st century standards. Because in the 21st century, that’s what people think of when you say “Moor” or more specifically “black”.

    Both Orson Welles and Laurence Olivier played Othello. African-American singer/actor Paul Robeson played Othello on the stage in London’s West End ca.early 1930’s. Robeson was perhaps the first actual black actor to play Othello.

    The ideal Othello would have been portrayed by legendary Egyptian Omar Sharif. That’s along the lines of what historically “Moor” would be codeword for.

    Feeling like this is from a Fish Called Wanda, where Jamie Lee Curtis has to explain to Kevin Kline all the absurdities. If Jamie Lee could figure it out. From Halloween to Wanda.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  135. @Anonymous

    Once you go black, you never go back.

    Because you can’t. Go back, that is.

    Because you are in a medically-induced coma from the head injuries.

  136. utu says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I do not think that the difference in quantity translates into the difference in quality, the quality in terms of attitudes towards the miscegenation, in this case. Look at 200 million India ruled by 20,000 Brits. Portugal never ruled a colony with similar disproportions of natives the colonists ratio and yet Brits did no miscegenate in India while Portuguese did in Goa where they had significant number of colonists.

    The root for the difference was in Protestantism and its tendency for Biblical Hebrew larping fantasies which now could be called a cultural appropriation while Catholics preserved the concept of universals stemming from the ancient Greeks. For colonists what mattered was what was the perception of their actions in the metropolis. Portuguese did not have to rationalize miscegenation by the deficit in population. It was just accepted.

  137. @Gordo

    Sorry, but no. Wog is short for gollywog. You can find images of gollywog dolls on DuckDuckGo. They resemble the yearbook photo of the current governor of Virginia.

  138. @Rich

    The Multiregional Origin of Man theory makes much more sense than the Out of Africa theory. Caucasians, Mongloids and Negroids are too different to have all originated in one place and just the logistics of foot travel all over the world seems silly.

    The whole multi-regional thing is a waste of head space.

    Humans all have 46 chromosomes and can inter-breed. It’s not convergent evolution. Clearly we have a common origin. Once you realize that, then you’re just talking about “where?” and “when?”

    All the evidence suggests “Africa” and “150,000-50,000 years ago for the largest batch of genes”. It’s clear from the fossil record people–or at least hominids–have been leaking out of Africa for over a million years and the DNA says moderns contain DNA from some prior recent leaks.

    People who reach for “multiregional” because of the racial differences are really missing the point. Actually reversing the key point:

    Selection can be quite fast.

    That’s the key HBD understanding. Selection can go pretty quickly. And since settlement and the neolithic where humans started changing their environment themselves, selection has been rapid. We’ve been “selective breeding” ourselves–gene-culture co-evolution.

    That’s why there are these dramatic racial/ethnic differences: Radically different selective environments since the neolithic revolution and then the dawn of civilization. That is the crux of HBD.

    • Agree: vhrm
    • Disagree: Rich, 3g4me
  139. @SafeNow

    OK, I’ve been off doing non-web stuff, so you’ll have to take my word that I didn’t look anything up or look at any map (easy if I miss one … or more):

    1) Alaska (from the tip of the Aleutians)? Otherwise, Maine, Virginia, NC, or Florida?
    2) Canada (if coming from right downtown, at least).
    3) Maine (but I am not sure, since I figure there’s some trick here). Otherwise, NY due to the tip of Long Island.

    Well? I gots to know!

  140. @candid_observer

    Above all else, the guy’s got a lot of damn gall to appropriate, well, STEAL, that “Steal Your Face” logo of The Dead. Were I a Dead Head version of lawyer Jack D., I’d sue the pants, OK, Birkenstocks, off this fucker as a class action suit on behalf of Jerry’s kids.

  141. @Matt Buckalew

    Even now, now, very now, an old black ram / is tupping your white ewe.

    — Iago to Brabantino (Act 1, Scene 1)

  142. utu says:
    @Truth

    I will go with Lubavitchers on this:

    https://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/2346085/jewish/The-Cushite-Woman.htm
    Tzipporah, the wife of Moses, is referred to as a Cushite. Why is she described as a Cushite when she actually was a Midianite?

    The Cushites historically were a dark-skinned people. A dark-skinned woman is a rare visage in the Torah; thus, the Torah is metaphorically describing that Tziporah was unusual in her deeds. (Talmud, Moed Katan 16b)

    Commentaries explain that just as a dark-skinned person is immediately noticeable, so too an individual described as a Cushite possesses a character that is obvious and clear to all. (Ben Yehoyada, ibid.)

    What was so great about Tzipporah? She was exceptionally modest and unassuming in her actions. (Talmid Rabeinu Yechiel of Paris, ibid.)

    Alternatively, she was capable of transforming the physical into spiritual and darkness into light. (Shaloh, Shavuot 242 and 247).

    It is just a metaphor that she was special because “she was capable of transforming the physical into spiritual and darkness into light.”

    • Replies: @Truth
  143. El Dato says:
    @Anonymous

    Certainly not.

    Though as with fusion power, there is still a way to go.

  144. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Amerimutt Golems

    Speaking of Shakespeare, in 1596 Queen Elizabeth I issued an “open letter” to the Lord Mayor of London in which she said there are of late divers blackmoores brought into this realme, of which kinde of people there are allready here to manie. She later reiterated her good pleasure to have those kinde of people sent out of the lande i.e., deportations. In 1601, she complained again about the great numbers of Negars and Blackamoors which are crept into this realm.

    What is the difference between a “moor” and a “blackmoor”?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    , @Hereward
  145. @Cido

    I would say that the French are generally more northern European, even their temperament is not quite anything like that of the Italians or Spanish, France is also a massive industrial nation, something that few southern European nations(with the exception of the more Nordic-Alpine Italian north) have managed, you only have to look at the stellar airline and rail manufacturing and design that has for long taken place in France not to mention their huge car industry, the Concorde etc and compare all that to what was achieved in Iberia or the southern half of Italy. France is primarily a Germanic nation, most native French sans those with migrant admixture look much more German or British than they do Mediterranean. The whole of northern France especially was heavily influenced by the Germanic invasions and that has generally affected the whole country, France is essentially a central-northern European nation much like Austria or Switzerland.

  146. anon[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What is interesting that Arabs are, as far as I know, the only race that has voluntarily mixed with blacks (Arabs being, of course, Levantines, i.e. Caucasians or slightly tanned whites). I don’t have an explanation for that.

    La Raza Cosmica / Raza Unida also mixed with blacks, especially after slavery was abolished in the early 1820’s. They mixed so well that today there are not that many black Mexicans, those that exist are mainly in small communities on the coasts. However many Mexicans are about 5% – 10% sub-Saharan African in genetics.

    Of course lots of the Razas do not wish to discuss this, preferring instead to focus on the more romantic blending of Conquistador with Aztec to form the perfect Mestizaje. A founding myth that is less than 100 years old.

  147. @SafeNow

    1) Maine
    2) Canada
    3) Not Alaska, as the 180th meridian is an artificial construct.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  148. @Anon

    Ecosystems – from eastern woodland forest to plains grasslands to sagebrush great basin to douglas fir northwest forest. Fuzzy edges as one merges into another. They share common elements, such as grass, but in different concentrations, so the great plains are a grassland and the eastern woodlands are not a grassland even though the woodlands have some grass in them.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  149. Abe says:
    @PhysicistDave

    But it does not have that big an impact on my daily behavior: e.g., I think culture and individual differences trump race.

    As I’ve gotten older (I say this not with any particular relish) I’ve seen that race really does trump all. A recent post was about modern (pre-Kewl Britannia mass migration era) Britons being only 20-30% Anglo-Saxon and the rest Celtic despite the latter’s language being almost totally replaced by English.

    What? Lively, creative, musical, funny, theatrical, poetic, [email protected] at manufacturing Britons being overwhelmingly Celtic? You could have made a seat-of-the-pants guesstimate of Celtic precision manufacturing incompetence, taken the percentage of shells that were duds on the first day of Somme or Jutland, and back-calculated British Celtic-German admixture to within single digit accuracy of the actual 2020 genetic lab values.

  150. @jb

    It turns out human beings are social animals, not individual free floating atoms. We haven’t been that “individualistic” in millions years. Even chimps know their own tribe.

    The problem with guys like Dave (and quite a few HBD’ers) is they just make a sociopathic calculation about what’s good for themselves, with no concern for their people. They’ve deluded themselves into thinking this is “enlightened”. It’s literally pre-human.

    You’d have to go back to the last common ancestor we had with chimps, 7 million years ago, to get to a creature that just did what was good for it in its lifetime, with no sense of loyalty to community or the future.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  151. keypusher says:
    @Lev Myshkin

    Don’t take what Iago says at face value, so to speak.

  152. @PhysicistDave

    And yet Dave doesn’t spend time on non-White sites telling them RACE doesn’t matter. Something funny about a fella who is soooooo motivated to tell White people, over many years, how he really doesn’t care about race and neither should they!

    https://i2.wp.com/surprisinglives.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/thou-doth-protest-too-much.jpg?resize=800%2C800&ssl=1

    • Agree: 3g4me
  153. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s a fun article. The sort of GGS thesis. Along with the links to Wiki geography and Roman history. But seems light on actual evidence on Greek and Iberian views on race. Not to mention the differences in time of course. Feels a little like some Diamond or Gladwell thing.

    Of course, if you’re just putting it forward as a question, light hypothesis, fine. Otherwise…seems too light on evidence and too heavy on rationale.

  154. keypusher says:

    Steve: don’t forget, Shakespeare had an earlier Moor character, the awful Aaron in Titus Andronicus. Here’s a character describing Aaron’s son by the Gothic empress Tamora:

    A joyless, dismal, black, and sorrowful issue:
    Here is the babe, as loathsome as a toad
    Amongst the fairest breeders of our clime:
    The empress sends it thee, thy stamp, thy seal,
    And bids thee christen it with thy dagger’s point.

    Aaron himself refers to the child as a “thick lipp’d slave.”

    So if that’s how the half-white offspring looks, imagine how Aaron is supposed to look.

  155. @utu

    “The root for the difference was in Protestantism and its tendency for Biblical Hebrew larping fantasies which now could be called a cultural appropriation while Catholics preserved the concept of universals stemming from the ancient Greeks.”

    Regarding universals, Catholic theology in practice is anything but Greek. As for Biblical Hebrew, are you saying that the Biblical Jews weren’t related to the Biblical Hebrews? They certainly weren’t Greek. In other words, following the Biblical Hebrew (which is what the OT was written in) it makes sense.

    Also, unlike the Catholic church pre-Trent (and actually up to about the middle of the 20th century), Protestant Bible translators went to the biblical Greek (which is what the NT especially was written in) whereas the Catholic church retained the Vulgate, based on Jerome’s Latin translation of the Greek.
    So one actually went directly to the source, whereas the other relied upon a translation of a translation (which over the centuries became less and less reliable from a translation perspective).

  156. @oliver elkington

    Hopefully it stays that way, which it won’t if it keeps inviting in more and more Moors.

  157. @Anonymous

    Any carpenter will gladly explain a thing or two about Japanese joinery to you, sir.

  158. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I saw James Earl Jones as Othello and Chris Plummer as Iago at the Kennedy Center. As a youth. Seemed pretty well done.

  159. @Steve Sailer

    In my column, I tried to repeat myself in various ways often enough to get my rather novel point across.

    Mark Forsyth knows dozens of ways to do this, most with highfalutin Greek or Latin names. It’s handy to have this on a nearby shelf:

    https://blog.inkyfool.com/

    No fuddy-duddy he, this is the author of this:

  160. vhrm says:
    @utu

    Brits did no miscegenate in India

    I don’t have particular prior knowledge here, and possibly there’s a significant difference in degree compared to Goa, but to what degree are you confident of this ? It seems to me somewhat unlikely considering how these things tend to go.

    83 of 217 wills in Bengal between 1780-85 contained bequests either to Indian companions or their natural children, who were the offspring of high and low in British society, and gentlemen of wealth often left substantial bequests and annuities to their Indian partners and children
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian#Creation

    And speaking of the Portuguese, apparently the higher ups preferred that the British marry local women in India over Portuguese in India on religious concerns. From same page as above:

    At first the Company, with some reluctance, endorsed a policy of local marriage for its soldiers. The board of directors wrote in 1688 to its Council at Fort St. George: “Induce by all meanes you can invent our souldiers (sic) to marry with Native women, because it will be impossible to get ordinary young women, as we have before directed, to pay their own passages although Gentlewomen sufficient do offer themselves.” Until 1741, a special payment was made to each soldier who had his child baptised as a Protestant. The concern in London was that if the soldiers at Fort St. George lived with or married the many Portuguese women there the children would be brought up as Roman Catholics rather than Protestants.

    • Replies: @lysias
  161. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Also, people today tend to forget that Sub-Saharan blacks were really and truly primitive people. Just because they may have smelted and cast iron does not make them modern in any sense of the word. Reading the early explorers, one comes face to face with the reality that African blacks were essentially, technologically, stone-age people. It’s unlikely that a Sub-Saharan black could be cast as the Moor in Shakespeare because they simply didn’t have the culture to even interact with Europeans on any but a very simple level. Again, African blacks were literally humans from another era. They are not just us, as we were ten thousand years ago. Because of introgression with a primate which had diverged from the homo sapiens line over 700 thousand years ago, blacks bear primitive characteristics that we don’t share.

    “The scientists estimated this ghost lineage diverged from the ancestors of Neanderthals and modern humans up to 1.02 million years ago and interbred with the ancestors of modern West Africans from 124,000 years ago up to the present day. “One limitation of our study is that we have mainly sampled present-day West African populations,” Sankararaman said. They don’t know yet how far the ghost lineage spread across Africa, he said.
    The scientists aim to analyze people across Africa for signs of ghost lineages. “We are beginning to understand some of the complexities of human history, but the true picture is almost certainly even more complicated,” Sankararaman said.
    The researchers detailed their findings online Feb. 12 in the journal Science Advances.” Discover

    Also, “Any number of now-extinct human lineages that once existed within Africa may have hybridized with modern humans there as well. However, the sparse nature of the ancient human fossil record in Africa makes it difficult to identify DNA from such “ghost lineages” in modern humans.” Ibid

    Maybe the fossil record is sparse in Africa because homo sapiens did not evolve in Africa but rather modern Sub Saharan Africans are the product of crossbreeding between a homo sapiens that evolved outside of Sub-Saharan Africa with these proto-human species which dwelt in Sub-Saharan Africa. This accounts for both the primitiveness of Sub-Saharan facial and cranial features as well as their genetics relatedness to the rest of the human race. They are both homo sapiens and apelike-men.

  162. keypusher says:
    @Anonymous

    Even their language is primitive and sounds like something a chimp would speak.

    Do share some of the wonderful Western European fiction from back in the days when Lady Murasaki was writing The Tale of Genji.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  163. @Bardon Kaldian

    It is, of course, scientifically (biology etc.) nonsense; from a humanist standpoint, it is cruel & degrading.

    Is it really cruel and degrading? Or the simple unvarnished truth?–as cruel and degrading as that may be.

    “A mysterious extinct “ghost” human lineage that was an even more distant relation than Neanderthals may have interbred with the ancestors of modern West Africans, significantly contributing to their gene pool, a new study finds.”

    “The scientists estimated this ghost lineage diverged from the ancestors of Neanderthals and modern humans up to 1.02 million years ago and interbred with the ancestors of modern West Africans from 124,000 years ago up to the present day.” Discover, from Science Advances

    “Up to the present day.” would impart more primitive traits to living Sub-Saharan Africans than Europeans derived from Neanderthals with whom them may have bred 30,000 years ago. Estimates of the percentage of genes in modern Sub Saharan Africans that are derived from their introgression run around 17%! That’s a lot.

    See my comment below for more.

  164. J.Ross says:
    @Anonymous

    Japanese carpentry is worse than that, it’s literally “Koreans do it better so let’s kidnap thousands of Korean carpenters and just say they … have a cold.”

  165. @Dieter Kief

    “That is the new perspective.”

    it can be condensed to this:

    when attacking – whites exist. “All white people are racist.”

    when defending – there’s no such thing as whites. “You didn’t build that.”

  166. @Anon

    Moor = Caucasian Muslim from North Africa.
    Blackamoor = Sub-Saharan African Muslim.

  167. Jack D says:
    @utu

    Brits did no[t] miscegenate in India

    This is not true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian

    The difference is that in Portuguese colonies there was no strict color line. In English colonies (including the US) either you were 100% white (and could join the gentlemen’s clubs, etc.) or you weren’t and if you weren’t then your status was somewhat lower (Anglo-Indians ranged higher than Indians but lower than white people – the British staffed the middle management of the railroads, post office and civil service with as many Anglo-Indians as they could find). Of course Indians are in no position to criticize the British for assigning people to castes.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  168. lysias says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Doesn’t Shakespeare make it clear that Othello is Christian? Am I misremembering? Am I just thinking of Verdi?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  169. “A number of ghost lineage genetic variants were unusually common in the Yoruba and Mende genomes, suggesting they might confer some evolutionary advantages. These included genes involved in tumor suppression, male reproduction and hormone regulation.’

    Equatorial Africa is notoriously hard on human beings. Diseases for which humans have only imperfect immunity ravage the populations. Could it be that the homo sapiens who bred back into the more primitive hominid forms that lived there from time immemorial benefited genetically by virtue of acquiring immunity to some of the local diseases?

    Or, looked at another way, if we Europeans and Asians did evolve in equatorial Africa, then where did our immunity to Malaria etc. go?

    In other words, equatorial Africa may have been the last settled part of the Globe because homo sapiens simply couldn’t survive there until they had interbred with these more primitive hominids who possessed immunity by virtue of their having evolved there. The only way modern humans could survive in equatorial Africa was to interbreed with the local, more primitive yet hardier hominid forms.

    That”s why there is a dearth of fossils.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  170. Corvinus says:

    “When the Greeks went west to the Pillars of Hercules, people only changed a little before the known world ended in the Atlantic. Go east and people slowly changed, but it was all rather vague because the Greeks had little in-person contact with East Asians.”

    iSteve is really simplifying matters here, but I understand why…

    “Therefore, the Greek understanding of the intersection of geography and race was woozy. They tended to think in terms of “yonder”: If you go in that direction the people will increasingly look different…”

    Because he admittedly draws a conclusion that seems reasonable, but when unpacked, lacks perspective and nuance (and research). I get it, he has limited space for your Taki column, so let me oblige.**

    “While the Greeks were somewhat aware of racial discontinuities, they mostly saw race as deriving from the height of the sun in the sky, which varies continuously.”

    LOL, Mr. Sailer, where are you even getting this notion from? Support, please.

    **This understanding was not “woozy”—what a weird term to employ. Yes, the Greeks (and Romans and Europeans thereafter) looked at different groups of people in terms of “yonder”–they were over “there”. But the Greeks (and Romans) had various phrases that encompassed the idea of identity based on descent groups, geographic origin, and shared cultural practices—hardly “hazy” or “vague” or “unclear” at all. Moreover, Greeks (and Romans) had specific reasons as to why those groups were different by way of their mythical genealogies and through the descriptions of their customs. In essence, the Greeks articulated the physical differences AND perceived differences of those groups shaped by birth and environment. While the Athenians sought to preserve their gene pool through “citizen purity”, NOTICE how the Thebans, Argives, and Romans each had histories of racial and ethnic blending, with citizenship conferred to a wide range of groups.

    As an important aside, some of the fine posters here maintain the ancient Greeks (and Romans) are the foundation of “white western Christian civilization”…even though they did not directly refer to themselves as “white”. Need we remind people that this category of “white” is a modern invention and was even altered to include Mediterranean peoples? What is “white”, anyways?

    http://www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/White.htm

    “In contrast, the more hard-edged Enlightenment categories that emerged from the discoveries of the age of exploration, picturing the human race as being reasonably divisible into continental-scale races, are now anathema.”

    Yet unreasonably determined. Race was enshrined as science during the Enlightenment by European predicated on rudimentary categorization methods, patently no knowledge of Darwinian Evolution, and scant (or biased) firsthand knowledge of the “races” they were judging.

    • Replies: @Keypusher
  171. Corvinus says:

    “During America’s current racial crisis, it’s striking how useless and irrelevant has been the intellectual conventional wisdom, which denies that race even exists.”

    Race is linked to biology; ethnicity is linked to culture. Race is a biological and social construct. Ethnicity is a social construct. Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. Certainly, race and ethnicity overlap, but they are distinct. For example, a Japanese-American would probably consider himself a member of the Asian race, but, if he does not engage in any of the practices or customs of his ancestors, he might not necessarily identify with the ethnicity, but rather consider himself to be American. Of course, American is not a “race”, it is a conglomeration of distinct ethnic groups all rolled into one, with a common cultural bond.

    Remember, natural science consists of mental constructs, created with the objective of explaining sensory experience of our world. Human beings affix labels to make sense of our environment. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. biological construct. The name of the creature is a human designation—strix occidentalis, i.e. human construct. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by people, to name species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically labeled it. Race, biology, ethnicity–all are concepts created by man as an organizational tool to offer a consistency about the natural world in which they observe.

    Breeds are manufactured through selective breeding (artificial selection). A Boston terrier is an explicitly defined animal: the AKC ultimately decides which dog meets the criteria. I am probably stating the obvious here, but geographic isolation, and natural or sexual selection, have resulted in some alleles in human beings being more frequent in some groups compared to human beings, and ancestry determines the distribution of some genes. As far as I know, the major genetic clusters consisted of Europeans/West Asians (whites), sub-Saharan Africans, East Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%. It also seems to me that this debate over race as a biological construct–I happen to believe that race is both a biological and social construct–originated in the desire to establish the genetic inferiority of some races compared to others.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
  172. @Anonymous

    You’re right in some specifics, but I think you miss the overall impression that the Japanese gave to the first travelers arriving from Europe. I agree that Japan was “primitive” at that time, but it was a highly developed and refined primitiveness. You might learn more from the book “Everyday Things in Premodern Japan.”

  173. Keypusher says:
    @Corvinus

    Race was enshrined as science during the Enlightenment by European predicated on rudimentary categorization methods, patently no knowledge of Darwinian Evolution, and scant (or biased) firsthand knowledge of the “races” they were judging.

    And yet they got the basic categories right, as their better-informed descendants found. Because race is really pretty simple and obvious.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
  174. Alden says:

    Othello told Desdemona he was Egyptian. Captured by Turks and enslaved at 14. He and some Italian slaves escaped and went home to Venice. Othello went with them. That’s how icky ugly old Othello wooed her. Told her the story of his poor poor pitiful life. Appealed to her maternal rescue instincts . Play was based on a true contemporary murder. A Venetian admiral murdered his wife. A native Venetian , not an immigrant Egyptian.

  175. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Missing the point here. The point is the warning. Not the punishment to be expected of the messengers.

    Bottom line, Macron can fake another victory over Le Pen, easily. He counts the votes. So he can have only one supporter and pallets of ballots make their way to the counting stations at 4 am.

    No problem.

    Problem: Muslim and black men make up about 65% of the under thirty age range. They can if they want take over every single French city, kill all the White people, and take their stuff. Declare an Islamic Republic. There is NOTHING Macron can do about that.

    His being in the Eurozone, and existing Covid-19 expenditures means he can no longer stuff the Muslims and blacks with money. He can’t raise taxes on the White working/middle class any more without a revolt there. Much of the Army and Police are Muslim and/or black. A coup would see Macron killed in the first hours of fighting by the new Islamic Republic. Macron has tried to have it both ways, deporting some Muslims and calling for erasing White people from France’s history. He can fake any election he wants, but once the mass killing starts and it will by Muslims and blacks who can count and see they are most of the Fighting Age men around, then its pretty much over.

    Already a Smith College black professor has called for killing all the White people. He thought it funny. Here in this country most black people figure killing most White people, to take their stuff, is both approved by the ruling class (it is) and will be easy (it won’t be for a lot of White people). A Smith College Professor is hardly the hardscrabble rebel in some cave — that’s the heart of the ruling elite.

    Some cop will do something here, and blacks will start killing Whites in mass numbers. Already Brett Stephens has figured out, gasp he’s White and his skin color is his uniform. Biden being senile and his people stupid, will only add fuel to the fire by helping out the killing and seeking to disarm Whites.

    We have a large cohort of untalented black leaders who cannot advance without killing most White people and taking their stuff: money, property, power, positions, status. Already Disney in Falcon and the Winter Soldier are advocating that. Main plot in the series is a group of diverse people who get the dead people’s stuff: money, property, status, etc. now want to kill the resurrected and get the stuff they were given back. This is presented as good and reasonable, as is killing cops and soldiers who prevent this action. Hollywood being all black now is all in on the wave of mass killing.

    And its worse in France. There its likely more months than years away. That’s the point of the message. The Generals knew what they would get. They were experienced operators and had no illusions. That they did it says what they think is coming. The highest hierarchy of needs is not being dead.

  176. Corvinus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Though lumped together as “Pygmies” by outsiders, including their patrons, these peoples are not related to each other either ethnically or linguistically. Different Pygmy peoples may have distinct genetic mechanisms for their short stature, demonstrating diverse origins. Furthermore, there is no “Pygmy linguistic family”. All the tongues spoken by Pygmy groups are clearly related to other African languages, belonging to the two phyla of Central Africa: Niger-Kordofanian and Nilo-Saharan.

  177. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    Steve, your argument (as presented here) seems to assume that the subsaharan West African populations due south of Portugal were similar to the Northeast African populations of Egypt, Ethiopia, even Kenya, that were nearer to Greece.

    That’s a good point. East Africans, such as Ethiopians, are something of an outlier among Sub-Saharan Africans, and have been Christianized with reasonably developed states for the last couple of thousand years, hence the Medieval legend of Prester John.

    Despite some of their Africanized traits, such as skin and hair, I think they’re actually closer to being quasi-Caucasoids of the Semitic branch (I’m sure someone can easily check my recollection on this).

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Alden
    , @Chrisnonymous
  178. hhsiii says:
    @Corvinus

    Really? Do people categorize tomatoes as a fruit because they want to establish its inferiority to spinach?

  179. J.Ross says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I just saw Halloween for the first time. Instead of fear I was in love with the Maxfield Parrish gorgeous tableaus of floral ivy-bedecked suburban Indiana.

  180. @Steve Sailer

    Good piece — but just one quibble. It starts by posing a question about the racial “territory” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation ]:

    Do people mostly just differ slightly from their neighbors in a steady progression of blurry differences around the world?

    But then it quickly shifts to considering the issue of whether a particular cognitive “map” of racial variation is valid/ useful — a frame that’s maintained throughout the remainder of the essay:

    Or is it more helpful in organizing our knowledge of human variation to think of most individuals as belonging to largely separate major races?
    These mental frameworks

    Kind of conflating the two.

    But for the sake of argument, let’s assume that the initial statement is an accurate description of racial differences in the real world — a continuous spectrum with minimal “lumpiness.” Could the concept of race still be a useful one, that reproducibly captures an important aspect of physical/ biological reality? Let’s look at an analogy involving our “map” of an aspect of the physical world that definitely is a steady, gradual progression, but is commonly described using a “mental framework” that involves a small number of “separate” categories:

    Electromagnetic radiation. It has basically zero intrinsic “lumpiness” — green shades gradually and continuously in to yellow, and yellow into orange, etc. There’s no “gap” between the colors where one suddenly transitions into another. At what exact wavelength does yellow turn into orange? Yet “green,” “orange,” and “yellow” are still useful concepts that correspond to important aspects of the physical world, and no one runs around screeching “Color is just a social construct, you redist bigot! What are you, some kind of maroon supremacist!?” The names of the colors, the exact dividing lines between them, even the exact number of colors are all clearly somewhat arbitrary “social constructs” — yet the concept of “colors” accurately captures an aspect of reality that exists independent of our cognitive “map” of the physical world.

    Of course, human genetic and phenotypic variation is significantly lumpy — but not discontinuous. The major races are significantly different, but there is no clean “gap” between them. Then again, the same is true of subspecies…

    At higher levels [family, genus, species], there typically is a gap — they’re separate clades:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clade

    And at lower levels, as you move down more toward ethnies, the biological differences gradually become less important, and the cultural differences more important.

    Hence, today’s demand that the Enlightenment’s way of thinking about race as discontinuous be utterly abandoned and forgotten is another example of the growing science denialism of our times.

    Sure. An imperfect map is better than no map.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Ron Unz
  181. Alden says:
    @AndrewR

    Maybe you could start by not defending Phillip Adams, a black man who recently slaughtered 6 Whites including 2 small children and 2 workers who just happened to be in his way to the house.

    It wasn’t a “ very complicated incident” as you called it. It was just another vicious evil black person slaughtering Whites.

    • LOL: AndrewR
  182. lysias says:
    @Ron Unz

    Amharic and most of the other current languages of Ethiopia, as well as Ge’ez, Old Ethiopic, the liturgical language of the Ethiopian Church, are Semitic.

  183. Alden says:
    @Ron Unz

    Supposedly Ethiopians are the descendants of native African negroes of some type and some type of Caucasian colonists from what is now Yemen at some time in the past.

  184. @oliver elkington

    the Concorde etc and compare all that to what was achieved in Iberia or the southern half of Italy.

    Concorde was an early example of Brit-Frog entente after the last War (as we see it; “Hitler’s War”, as the few surviving oldsters call it round by here. It was really just the second half of the First, with a break for oranges and a change of opposition management at half-time).

    The aircraft itself was initially conceived as a further iteration of Britain’s “V-bomber” project, after the glorious Vulcan. War (in Western Europe) became unfashionable about then, and missile tech came on in leaps and bounds, so vulnerable white-elephant nuke carriers had to be repurposed. Get the French on board, maybe they can help cash-strapped Blighty pay for this thing, and try supersonic executive travel as the market.

    My old man (ex-61 Squadron, Canberras) used to grind his remaining teeth about the ignominious fate of the TSR-2, BAC designed, as Concorde was by that company’s predecessors, which he reckoned was “a beautiful aircraft” that he never got to fly in. I think there’s one buried in the beach in Wales or somewhere.

    The wife’s old man was on one of the first flights of Concorde to the US, compliments of his company.
    Still got the complimentary travel bag, and the little desk model (for wowing reps from competitors).

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  185. lysias says:
    @vhrm

    Brits certainly did miscegenate in 18th century India. William Dalrymple’s books discuss how that changed in the 19th century.

  186. I thought it was going to be some kind of academic article. Instead, it just rehearses Wikipedia-style generalizations. Totally lame. Not to mention some of its assertions are wrong, and some debatable. It’s so general, anyhow, it’s mostly neither right nor wrong.

  187. Poolnet says:

    The only thing I remember from Othello is that a certain “Black Ram” is reportedly tupping a “White Ewe”. It sounds definitive to me.

    • Replies: @Alden
  188. @James Forrestal

    A point I should have stressed more is that the framework you hold in your head helps determine which evidence it’s easy for you to notice and remember. For example, if you are ideologically committed to the clinal model of human variation, you will pay more attention to Nile than to the western Sahara. And the Atlantic Ocean will tend to slip your mind entirely.

    But just because the Atlantic Ocean was a near perfect barrier to gene flow until 1492, doesn’t mean that there aren’t other places in the world where the clinal model works pretty well. So if you committed to the discrete race model, it’s harder to remember the more clinal parts of the world.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @James Forrestal
  189. Corn says:
    @anonymous

    Jesus people are naive.

    • Disagree: Rich
  190. @Jack D

    In South and Central America and the West Indies, they have about 20 races, careful color gradations, gradual differentiation, just the opposite of what Sailer posits. He’s Americo-centric. Nobody else ever had a thought according to him.

  191. @ThreeCranes

    One theory is that falciparum malaria didn’t become a major problem until the emergence of agriculture and deforestation in West Africa a few thousand years ago. The mosquito that carries the worst kind of malaria needs sunlit still water to hatch its eggs. Much of tropical Africa was dense shady rain forest, which would support a few humans living a pygmy lifestyle. But then Bantus developed agriculture, and the malaria mosquitos (anopheles?) started breeding like crazy in all the mud puddles exposed to the sun. Thus, the main genetic defense against falciparum malaria, the sickle cell gene, seems like a pretty quick and dirty defense, suggesting it has only been around for a few thousand years. In contrast, sub-Saharans enjoy a defense against vivax malaria, the Duffy gene, that has much less downside, so it may have been in refinement longer than the sickle cell defense.

  192. @lysias

    Right. Othello is a Christian. If he’s from Egypt, that would imply he’s a Copt, like actor Rumi Mallek.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @syonredux
  193. @ThreeCranes

    Many Renaissance and Enlightenment Europeans such as Blumenbach (and, IIRC, Jefferson) noted that sub-Saharans adapted to white ways more readily than did other, more-standoffish races, such as North American Indians.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @Corvinus
  194. Hereward says:
    @Anon

    16th Century Europeans distinguished between “Blackamoors” and Berber or Arabic Moors. From Ian Mortimer’s social history “The Time Traveler’s Guide to Elizabethan England”: “[early 16th Century Explorer] Andrew Boorde divides them into ‘white moors and black moors’ and states that the latter are taken as slaves ‘to do all manner of service but they be set most commonly to vile things.’ [French explorer] André Thevet, author of ‘The New Found Worlde’ (1568), explains that those of the north of Africa are ‘brown colored, whom we call white Moors, others are clean black: the most parte go all naked.’ Thevet adds that the heat of their climate makes black women promiscuous and the men ‘poor, ignorant and brutish.’”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Anon
  195. Ron Unz says:
    @James Forrestal

    Of course, human genetic and phenotypic variation is significantly lumpy — but not discontinuous. The major races are significantly different, but there is no clean “gap” between them. Then again, the same is true of subspecies…

    This relates to a column I published in 2014 prompted by Nicholas Wade’s excellent book on racial issues:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/does-race-exist-do-hills-exist/

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  196. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Have we physiologically, not just culturally, evolved in a short span of existing human civilization, which is around 5,000 years?

    Think of it as a manifestation of compound interest.

    Assume a genetic trait gives individuals only an 0.1% better chance to procreate, per generation. The trait could be entirely novel, or could be a sporadically occurring mutation that has suddenly become advantageous due to its interplay with physical or cultural factors, e.g. hot/cold climate, social conditions in dense agricultural societies, access to cow’s milk, etc.

    Taking 25 years as one generation, 5,000 years is equivalent to 200 generations.

    All other things being equal, the cumulative benefit of the new trait over 5,000 years is:

    1.001 ^ 200 = 1.221 i.e. about 22%.

    For a more distinct reproductive advantage of 0.5% per generation, the cumulative benefit would be as much as 71%.

    This simple calculation ignores positive feedback loops. For example, a sizeable proportion of adults with lactase persistence might take positive steps to secure a steady supply of milk and milk products, which in turn would increase the reproductive benefit.

    Note that a trait conferring a genetic advantage on one group may be deleterious in another. For example, high disease resistance in “scheduled” Indian sub-castes or “scheduled tribes” would be of little advantage to a high caste Southern Indian researcher working in a nice university lab in Montreal, Quebec.

    • Thanks: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  197. Alden says:
    @Ian Smith

    British later American Whites haven’t voluntarily mixed with blacks? Even more so in slavery days than now. Or maybe it was to produce more livestock than the blacks could do alone.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  198. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    It’s kinda like topography. You wrote about this, I am sure.

    Someone walking from Cleveland, Ohio to Cheyenne, Wyoming will cover a lot of miles but won’t really encounter any major vertical changes, so there’s no such thing as “mountain” in his experience. Some other guy walking from Denver, Co. to Sacramento, Ca. will have a different experience, and will firmly believe in “mountains”…the plural, not the singular.

  199. Alden says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The Turks did not enslave fellow Muslims. Or Jews because Jews made arrangements also known as extortion payments.

    Othello told Desdemona he was Egyptian so he must have been a Christian. Did Shakespeare know Turks didn’t enslave fellow Muslims,. Was it generally known in Europe? Nothing in the play about religious differences.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  200. @Vlad III

    An even more minor correction to yours. It’s Speke.

    I read this when I was 12 years old, and it still remains the best thing I’ve read about the great Victorian expeditions that went in search of the source of the Nile. It is a classic and I still have it on my bookshelf.

    The companion volume, Alan Moorehead’s The Blue Nile, is a pretty good read, too, and is mostly about Ethiopia.

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  201. @rebel yell

    My vague impression is that just inland from Chicago there was a pretty distinct line between forest and prairie.

    • Replies: @rebel yell
  202. @James N. Kennett

    Indeed. As well as the Greek view of race, and the Portuguese view, there is the New York view. Race doesn’t exist, but black lives matter; and woe betide any white person who pretends to be black

    It’s as was said of (lapsed Catholic and putative atheist)G. Santayana. “Santayana believes ,There is no G-d and Mary is his mother”.

    I hasten to add , I don’t think he was an atheist myself.

  203. @Hereward

    I vaguely recall that in Mauritania, the terms “white Moor” and “black Moor” are still used.

  204. Alden says:
    @Poolnet

    Black and brown skin color didn’t necessarily mean negroes, or dark skinned Asians Arabs Indians. Author Jane Austen was sometimes described as medium brown hair, light brown eyes and brown skin. I assume her brown skin wasn’t brown but not the palest White.

    A character in Mansfield Park, Henry Crawford is actually described as black. He’s not a mulatto brought over from the islands but English. His sister Mary is described as small and very dark.

    Two of the characters spent years in Antigua. No mention of sun tan when they came home.

    If 1810 English novel characters were described as black and dark and the author described as having brown skin, who knows how the English of Shakespeare’s time described complexions.

    Then there’s the purely Scots and Irish Shawn Connery, dark as an Arab old Movie star Rock Hudson the same.

  205. @SunBakedSuburb

    Considering Othello is the title character I can only assume the theory wherein Shakespeare was the nom de plume for a cabal of dissident writers is correct, or Shakespeare was one guy who smoked weed

    Not far from the Laurie/Atkinson take.

  206. @Expletive Deleted

    There are still a couple of examples in museums in the UK.


    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  207. @Jonathan Mason

    The “W” word is every bit as offensive if not more offensive than the “N” word.

    Sir, I think you need to lighten up a shade or two. From analysis of context, it seems to me “wog” is not a fighting word. For many users it might have been intended as a slight put-down, but on the whole it was just humorous slang meaning any foreigner (“the wogs begin at Calais” is an example; do you not get that it’s a joke?). I’ve never heard of a bar fight or street march over somebody’s saying “wog.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  208. @Dave Pinsen

    Britain’s population wasn’t that much greater than Portugal’s, and during that time period, it was maybe half the population of Spain and a quarter that of France. In fact, Britain didn’t really come close to France in population until the 19th century.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  209. @utu

    As Jack D notes, the British had some miscegenation in India. But there were some key differences between the Portuguese and British in India, and the British in India and elsewhere.

    For starters, the British were likely better administrators than the Portuguese. They also had more advanced technology in the 19th century Raj than the Portuguese had when they were establishing their presence in India two hundred years earlier. The British also benefited to some extent from the Portuguese getting their first, so there were some Indians already familiar with the Latin alphabet, etc.

    And unlike North America or Australia, India was already densely populated, so it wasn’t somewhere Britain exported surplus population.

  210. SafeNow says:

    Achmed and Scarlet, Geography answers follow. Thank you for participating. Traditional subjects deserve support! — Geography, earth science, the traditional, unwoke literature canon, etc.

    The U.S. State closest to Africa is Maine(!).
    Head South from Detroit, and the first foreign country you hit is Canada (!)
    The Easternmost US State is Alaska, because it goes so far west, that it crosses the longitude line that places it into the eastern hemisphere. (as Scarlet notes, a very technical assessment).

    • Disagree: ScarletNumber
  211. B36 says:

    This is another one that should go right into the printed (as in physical book) Great Sailer Anthology. Because we can be sure that the internet powers that be will have to cancel Steve at some point and wipe all evidence of his existence and product from cyberspace.

    (Steve, just wondering, if we crowdsourced the cost, how much would you need to assemble, edit, and publish the great Anthology?)

  212. e says:
    @Anonymous

    Steve, I had to read the sentence several times. It’s a grammatical mess. Fix it.

  213. @I, Libertine

    This is yet another reminder that Shakespeare, the son of an illiterate glover maker from the backwater town of Stratford-Upon-Avon, is history’s most accomplished autodidact.

    It’s off-topic in response to a post about racial history, but since you brought it up:

    “Shakespeare” was the greatest anonymous writer of all time. The theatrical actor-manager who bore that name didn’t write the plays, sonnets, etc. (He may have tinkered with some of the plays, adding bits of low comedy to keep the groundlings yucking it up.) Actor-manager Shakespeare had his hands full running a theater company, with neither time nor energy for literary immortality; most academics writing about “Shakespeare’s” identity have no idea of the work that goes into real-world theatrical production.

    He was not even the barely educated Stratford bloke who spelled his name Shaksper, “recruited” later to retroactively fill the authorship role. National pride in Shakespeare and the Stratford tourism industry had early beginnings.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
  214. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Why do people continue to parrot this weeaboo faggotry?

    Admiration for Japan might have been weeaboo since WW2 perhaps. before that, there was a lot of admiration for Japanese martial spirit, Samurais, Bushido and the lot.

    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Japan#First_contacts_with_Europe_(16th_century)
    Japan was also perceived as a sophisticated feudal society with a high culture and advanced pre-industrial technology. It was densely populated and urbanized. Prominent European observers of the time seemed to agree that the Japanese “excel not only all the other Oriental peoples, they surpass the Europeans as well” (Alessandro Valignano, 1584, “Historia del Principo y Progresso de la Compania de Jesus en las Indias Orientales).
    Early European visitors were amazed by the quality of Japanese craftsmanship and metalsmithing.
    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanban_trade
    “Their Scimitar -alike swords and daggers cut so well that they can cut a soft paper just by putting it on the edge and by blowing on it.” (“Relations of Mme de St Tropez”, October 1615, Bibliothèque Inguimbertine, Carpentras).[note 2]
    Renaissance Europeans were quite fond of Japan’s immense richness in precious metals, mainly owing to Marco Polo’s accounts of gilded temples and palaces, but also due to the relative abundance of surface ores characteristic of a volcanic country, before large-scale deep-mining became possible in Industrial times. Japan was to become a major exporter of copper and silver during the period. At its peak, 1/3 of the world’s silver came from Japan.

    Europeans including the cultured French even went wild for Japanese culture and design immediately after the opening of Japan to the West. Though the West has had gone wild for Chinese art, Indian philosophy and Islamic Sufism too at various times.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japonisme

    Japonisme[a] is a French term that refers to the popularity and influence of Japanese art and design in western Europe in the nineteenth century following the forced reopening of trade of Japan in 1858.[1][2] Japonisme was first described by French art critic and collector Philippe Burty in 1872.[3]

    While the effects of the trend were likely most pronounced in the visual arts, they extended to architecture, landscaping and gardening, and clothing.[4] Even the performing arts were affected; Gilbert & Sullivan’s The Mikado is perhaps the best example.

    From the 1860s, ukiyo-e Japanese woodblock prints, became a source of inspiration for many Western artists.[5] These prints were created for the commercial market in Japan.[5] Although a percentage of prints were brought to the West through Dutch trade merchants, it was not until the 1860s that ukiyo-e prints gained popularity in Europe.[5] Western artists were intrigued by the original use of color and composition. Ukiyo-e prints featured dramatic foreshortening and asymmetrical compositions.[6]

    Japanese decorative arts, including ceramics, enamels, metalwork, and lacquerware, were as influential in the West as the graphic arts.[7] During the Meiji era (1868–1912), Japanese pottery was very successfully exported around the world.[8] From a long history of making weapons for samurai, Japanese metalworkers had achieved a very expressive range of colours by combining and finishing metal alloys.[9] Japanese cloissoné enamel reached its “golden age” from 1890 to 1910,[10] producing items more advanced than ever before.[11] Lacquer from Japanese workshops was recognised as technically superior to what could be produced anywhere else in the world.[12] These items were widely visible in nineteenth-century Europe: a succession of world’s fairs displayed Japanese decorative art to millions[13][14] and it was picked up by galleries and fashionable stores.[7] Writings by critics, collectors and artists expressed considerable excitement about this “new” art.[7] Collectors including Siegfried Bing[15] and Christopher Dresser[16] displayed and wrote about these works. Thus Japanese styles and themes reappeared in the work of Western artists and craftsmen.[7]

    Consider that Japanese carpenters were still using the hand drill in the 19th century.

    Well, nearly all cultures were primitive compared to Europe during that time on this account. I have seen descriptions of Indian and Persian craftmen and they all used inferior tools compared to European craftsmen in general and yet according to European observers “came up with beautiful works”. It is just that it took more time, something which took an English carpenter 3 days to do would take an Indian carpenter a month. Some British observers believed that the smallness/nimbleness of the hands of the Indian craftmen compared to the more beefy fingers of Europeans were responsible of such excellent works of art even though Indians used more primitive tools and very cheap too. Many British civil servants worked personally to protect traditional Indian crafts.

    their clothing rougher,

    This could be because the Japanese were on average poorer than Western Europeans like all of humanity by the 1600s due to the great divergence. Japanese elites dressed like thisSamurai Hasekura Tsunenaga

  215. @Dave Pinsen

    Puzzles me that nobody ever mentions the French, the Dutch and even the Danes in the context of colonialism in (what was to become) India.
    That shower got there before the Brits, and, as any fule kno, no Englishman never ever stirred either hand nor foot outside the Island but for the express object of Fucking With The Damn’ Frogs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_people_in_India

    Either get there before them (the Pacific and Australasia) or shoving the garlicky buggers out (Canada, Spain, Louisiana and so on).
    So why does our evident superiority cause such resentment among the rag-headed multitudes? “Boohoo U steal our mega-diamond”? Yeh because before that the Maharaja used to let all the slaves/peasants into his palace once a year to lick the sacred rock? I somehow really doubt that.

    Fuck. I wish Hirohito had bagged you all after Singapore. Would have taught you some goddam manners, you incessant whingers and bludgers.

  216. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Did Shakespeare know Turks didn’t enslave fellow Muslims? Was it generally known in Europe?

    Not sure about Shakespeare’s personal knowledge of Ottoman slavery practices, but his colleague and senior contemporary Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra (the author of Don Quixote) had first-hand experience of the practice, having lived as an Ottoman slave for nearly five years before being ransomed.

    One imagines basic insights about “the Turk” as slave master traveling fast among educated Western Europeans given that slave raids to the British coast remained an ongoing problem until much later.

  217. Neoconned says:
    @Anonymous

    You’re just mad because all the hot cosplay girls come to our anime cons and flirt with us and spurn your 3rd rate neckbeard d&d con brah. Get over yourself.

  218. @Anon

    I’ve always thought “Wogs begin at Calais” was a delightful expression for Americans to use, simultaneously and equally insulting to (a) South Asians, (b) French, (c) All Other Europeans, and (d) Britis[h]

    Ayuh. Sure do.

  219. @Dave Pinsen

    For starters, the British were likely better administrators than the Portuguese. They also had more advanced technology in the 19th century Raj than the Portuguese had when they were establishing their presence in India two hundred years earlier. The British also benefited to some extent from the Portuguese getting the[re] first, so there were some Indians already familiar with the Latin alphabet, etc.

    Prince Henry was the son of an Englishwoman. A bit of back-and-forth between the “oldest allies” there.

  220. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    This is wrong. Iago refers to Othello as “the thick lips.” Thinking (wrongly) that Desdemona is untrue to him, Othello says “Haply because I am black …” More largely, dramatically the tragedy is playing with antithetical images of white and black. Othello is clearly sub-Saharan. The assumption that the word “Moor” has only one signification is to ignore everything else going on in the play.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  221. @Reg Cæsar

    And the Englishwoman had learned navigation from Chaucer.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  222. @Mr. Anon

    If there is no difference between races, how do racist white cops know whom to shoot?

    1. The black cops are not too find of negroes either.
    2. Anybody who thinks race doesn’t exist is an argument has never listened to a police radio scanner for a couple hours. When the dispatcher describes a suspect or person-of-interest the first datum in their description is the person’s race. 100% of the time. Always. Every time.

    (Jews are white people to the police dispatch operator, BTW.)

  223. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Their music sounded like dogshit. Even their language is primitive and sounds like something a chimp would speak.

    Wow Really? Of course we have our own individual tastes and you are entitled to your taste. But I personally beg to differ.


    Takeda No Komoriuta/ Lullaby of Takeda – Traditional Japanese Folk Song by Saori Yuki
    If this is not beautiful (music and language), what is?


    Sakura – Classical Koto Music by Toshiko Yonekawa

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcyFHUpaBF0
    From a historical drama, does not look like a primitive society to me at all but a sophisticated culture

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  224. @Reg Cæsar

    Philippa of Lancaster. She’s honored on their Monument of the Discoveries.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  225. @AndrewR

    People with the inclination and aptitude should read philosophy with a “right-wing eye”. Because of this 180 flip in power relations, the oppressors of left wing thinkers of the past are now the very same forces oppressing right dissidents. The most obvious example is that capitalism, writ large, is responsible for the globohomo, deindustrialization, opioid addicted, obese and diversity infected disaster that much of white America finds itself in. By reading Marx, one comes to understand that the pre-Civil War US was in many ways an excellent example of anti-capitalism. Or his theory of surplus value explains why feminism is so popular with capitalists and why a single breadwinning household is so much better for workers. Just have a peak at Engel’s “Irish Immigration” and you will read the absolute GOAT of antiimmigration agitprop and it will not take much imagination to see the same processes occurring between Mexico and the US.

    But the goal is not at accept at 100% facevalue the ideas of these thinkers. For example Marx’s lazy idea of replacing the concentration the means of production into the hands of a few plutocrats by
    concentrating them into the hands of a few bureaucrats is not all that inspired. A better idea is to fracture the means of production into as many hands as possible. Instead of atomizing society, atomize capital, or more realistically, break it into much smaller clumps. Instead of dreaming of the proletariat becoming universal and gaining power, instead push for the interests of the petit bourgeois, crafts not mass, smaller business, small contractors, small farms, etc., where the roles of the proletariat and bourgeoisie, and thus the class war, are often combined into the same person. Marx’s disgust towards the parasitical lumpenproletariat and his explicit linking of them to “lumpenfinance”, is also very useful in these days of riots, criminality and Wall Street parasitism! One Marxist slogan now forgotten is; “He who does not work shall not eat”, which yes, they lifted straight from the Bible!

    The French Poujadist movement was s petit bourgeois political alignment that militated against huge grocery chains back in the 50’s. They were incredibly prescient about the danger of rampant merchant capitalism (Walmartification) destroying small business and national culture. Under Poujade they were left/right fluid, appealing to both sides with an anti-tax, pro-small business, pro-little guy, pro-French cultural program. Unfortunately the glowie Jean Marie Le Pen took over and turned them away from small business and into a pro-Algerian war party. Just imagine the internal contradictions of being anti-tax but pro-war at the same time…

    Another real world example was recently DeSantis in Florida used the term “corporate media”. I was hoping he would go one step further and mention “manufacturing consent”. There is plenty of old leftwing anti-media agitprop to appropriate.

    Foucault is interesting for nothing else for his Eurocentrism and his encyclopedic knowledge of super interesting classical and medieval sources. His College de France lectures are more accessible than his books. He talks about domination, normalization, state power, etc. A lot of current leftish rhetoric is based on some of his concepts, for example his tropes about the body. He uses Nietzsche’s concept of a genealogy of morals in order to undermine current perceived truths.

    Another concrete example of this is the dissident right lifting of the concept of “ethno-narcissism” from the Frankfurt School. There are now a proliferation of “theory” channels on Youtube or podcasts. They are typically left leaning but with philosophy it is hard to keep strong ideas locked into a partisan sheep cage.

    A final example is Hegel and dialectical thinking. Often misunderstood, the dialectic is a powerful tool of conceptual thought. For example the interplay of land and water in plate tectonics is a dialectical relationship with their opposing forces, fluidity and constant movement: these are not smooth, linear processes, but take place through contradictions and leaps of cataclysmic, dare we say revolutionary, dimensions. From this emerges Hegel’s ubiquitous lordship / bondman dialectic (often wrongly called master/slave) which in my reading is a testament to the power of production over consumption. Obviously the post-industrial US has fallen into a consumption trap and a key strategic goal of the dissident right should be production over consumption.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  226. Anonymous[160] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm

    Just out of interest, are you a continental European, ‘born and bred’?

    • Replies: @3g4me
  227. @Steve Sailer

    Forest to prairie is more gradual from Missouri to Kansas. But the divide between the rainforest on the west side of the Cascades and the ponderosa pine on the dry east side happens in a few short miles.

  228. Anonymous[160] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm

    The implication of his comment was that a German has more in common with a Korean than he does with a Romanian, say.

    Which is pure bullshit, and only could be made by the childish and ignorant – someone who neither knows the Germans, the Romanians or the Koreans.
    For starters, a substantial, and fully assimilated ethnic German population has existed in Romania for a thousand years.

    Switzerland, for example, the quintessence of the best Europe can offer, is a rare fusion of the German, the Gaul and the Latin, and in post war years has taken in vast numbers of southern Italians and Yugoslavs.
    On a similar note, although there might be a certain degree of initial friction between a Yugoslav gastarbeiter and his descendants in Germany, at a basic basic level, stripped of the patina of ‘culture’, there is an affinity of life and outlook there, which tends to eventual full assimilation.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  229. @rebel yell

    Is Bend, Oregon right on the border, so you get lots of water coming down from the Cascades but locally the weather is sunnier?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @rebel yell
  230. El Dato says:
    @candid_observer

    We are all product of our times.

    Here we have shit product of shit times.

  231. @Expletive Deleted

    Fuck. I wish Hirohito had bagged you all after Singapore. Would have taught you some goddam manners, you incessant whingers and bludgers.

    If you did actually delete your expletives, there would be a lot of blank spaces in your comments.

  232. @Dave Pinsen

    Philippa of Lancaster. She’s honored on their Monument of the Discoveries.

    Wish I’d’ve known that when I visited in 1992. Spain was getting all the attention that year.

    Seville hosted the World’s Fair, but Chicago was accorded the same honor the same year. They were unable, or unwilling, to pull it off. (Perhaps Steve knows the details; he lived there at the time.) Same with Mexico City, a century earlier.

    That was the last World’s Fair awarded to North America. Our continent hasn’t hosted a full one since 1967, and our country since 1962. The 1964-5 bash in Flushing Meadows was unauthorized, and the fairs in San Antonio, Spokane, Knoxville, New Orleans, and Vancouver were merely “Specialized” ones.

    Mexico has never hosted an Expo. The other North American countries that have are Guatemala and Panama, both over a century ago.

  233. @Steve Sailer

    Is Bend, Oregon right on the border, so you get lots of water coming down from the Cascades but locally the weather is sunnier?

    Not Bend, but some other cities in eastern Oregon are only one hour behind Pensacola and Panama City, Florida.

    https://www.travelmath.com/time-change/from/Ontario,+OR/to/Pensacola,+FL

  234. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Dunno about Othello being an Egyptian:

    That handkerchief

    Did an Egyptian to my mother give.

    She was a charmer, and could almost read

    The thoughts of people. She told her, while she kept it,

    ’Twould make her amiable and subdue my father

    Entirely to her love. But if she lost it,

    Or made a gift of it, my father’s eye

    Should hold her loathèd, and his spirits should hunt

    After new fancies. She, dying, gave it me,

    And bid me, when my fate would have me wived,

    To give it her.

    III.iv.55-65

    Note how he says that an Egyptian gave his mother the handkerchief. If his mother were also an Egyptian, would he have referenced the giver’s origins? And if he did, wouldn’t he have made reference to the giver being a fellow countryman?

    Othello is a Christian

    The standard academic view is that Othello was a Muslim who converted to Christianity.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  235. @Foreign Expert

    And the Englishwoman had learned navigation from Chaucer.

    From a customs agent? He was– what?– her granduncle-by-marriage?

  236. @Torn and Frayed

    The second part of your remarks about Hegel is quite right.
    What translation is concerned: Lordship and bondman is correct, no doubt, that’s what Hegel said. Master and slave are indeed a bit misleading here, for a myriad of sociological reasons. One being that with the IQ gap there just is no way to think of slaves as being masters at times – and rightfully so. That was Hegel’s key idea here: That is was reasonable that the power shifted – over time – from lordship to bondman. In a way it was just a polite way to describe what was in plain sight for everybody: The Lordship decaying on their estates and their bondman rising to the economic power of hitherto never seen dimensions during the great leap forward in the eighteenth century.

    I don’t think that Hegel meant this dialectic as a necessity though. Here is where his pupil Koal Moax (that’s how the Viennese pronounce him) took a wrong turn. Hegel meant his lordship/bondman dialectic as a provocative remark. In the end, he did not care much about class struggles (exactly like Geothe) – and more about – – – -productivity, wit, life, work and play, productivity and esthetics – joys and culture – : – That’s the Schiller part here: Schiller turns Hegel around and stresses, how dependent the emerging productive variant of the bourgeois society had become to make the understanding and the shaping of values a public affair…(all in accordance and with big support of Goethe from the moment on they started to cooperate. Goethe wanted Schiller to develop his Kantian (and Hegelian) ideas and thus made him a professor of history in Jena. That scared Schiller in the beginning: He had no idea how he should do that. Goethe told him to be courageous and go ahead – and he told him, that he would find out how to be a professor of history and he did indeed – quite soon (it was important that that happened fast because Schiller had only a decade or so left to live).

    This aspect of liberal bourgeois productivity is the main thought Foucault did get wrong for most of his life. Key Foucault thus is a pretty useless (and often historically wrong – as in his history of the mental asylums) a little bit childish version of the world as a theater of scary monsters (the institutions) people had to fight.

    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel understood this much better and did like it that there is a problem of intersubjectivity*** (Habermas) at the core of a liberal modern society rather than one of eternal (=structural) oppression and liberation.

    ****Anerkennung was Hegel’s word: The respect you earn while becoming a functioning (=productive) (!) member of society (that’s important: For Hegel, this respect was no natural thing – as it wasn’t for Goethe and Kant -and, as you remark rightfully above, not for Koal Moax*** too (you mentioned his tirades against the unproductive (!) lumpenproletariat). This idea of societal respect as being something natural rather than being something the individual has to earn/achieve is one of the big (and rather destructive) errors of the woke mentality/mindset. – Natural rights are the foundation of the (Rousseauan) equity-concept that leads to big scale chaos, decay, and suffering.

    ***I oftentimes find myself pronouncing Marx like they do in Vienna and thinking that you can – just by pronouncing his name that way, understand with absolute certainty and precision, why he is wrong (and that he was not wrong altogether too – I know that this is a rather theatrical idea, but nevertheless – I – let it slip through – at least this time).

  237. Malla says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    For starters, the British were likely better administrators than the Portuguese.

    This is true. The British (like the Dutch) were also more tolerant w.r.t native religions unlike the Portuguese (or even the French up to some extent) in the early period (they became more tolerant with modernity). This made the British comparatively more popular with Indians who in those days look at human diversity more from a lens of religion than race, though racial attitudes existed as well. The British Colonial elites even went to native pagan festivals such as Durga Pooja (festival of worship of Goddess Durga, most popular festival among Bengali Hindus) at the invitations of native Bengali Hindu elites.
    https://scroll.in/article/763617/how-the-british-victory-at-plassey-created-the-modern-durga-pujo
    How the British victory at Plassey created the modern Durga Pujo

    Robert Clive of the British East India Company after his victory at the Battle of Plassey in 1757, desired to offer his benedictions to the Lord. However, Nawab Siraj ud-Daulah the earlier ruler of Bengal had destroyed the only Anglican Church in the city of Calcutta. Taking advantage of the situation, Hindu King Raja Nabakrishna Deb, a prominent family in Bengal, turned Clive’s attention towards Durga Puja, and arranged for a grand celebration at his Shobhabazar Mansion. Robert Clive and top level English East India Company officials attended the massive worship ceremony of Goddess Durga and thus was created a tradition of British Governors of Bengal to patronize and visit Durga festivals every year.English East India Company Officials as guests of native elites at Hindu Durga worship festivals in Colonial Bengal

    Also the Portuguese were more corrupt though the early East India Company Englishmen were corrupt as well but the administration rapidly changed with time and it became more clean, as parliament started exerting more influence and a lot of Lords appear. The British Aristocrats were quite rich anyways from the money from their estates while the earlier European trader class came to India to make a fortune. They were more interested in ruling well and basically wanted to LARP Roman Patrician in their new Indian Empire.

    The closing words of the Muslim history book, Riyazu-s-Salatin (1788) eulogized the English in India as ‘unrivalled in their laws for the administration of justice, for the safety of their subjects, for extermination of tyranny, and for protection of the weak. . . . And, notwithstanding their difference of creed, they do not interfere with the faith, laws, and religion of Musalmans.’

    Meredith Townsend wrote in 1904
    “That the English in India are regarded by large sections of the people as ” unaccountable, uncomfortable works of God ” may be true enough, but they are not despised, are not held to be bad, and do not, in the majority of cases, in any way disgrace their creed. To the bulk of the native population they are little known, because they are not visible, their numbers, except in the seaports and a few garrison towns, being inappreciable, but those (Indians) who know them know and admit them to be a competent people, brave in war and capable in peace, always just, usually benevolent, though never agreeable, and living for the most part steadily up to such light as they have.”

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  238. Anon[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Color spectrum, light refraction experiment, prism.

    This is good … maybe this was it.

    The only trouble is that the color spectrum itself is continuously variable, like an even, linear clinal change. It’s the human perception of the colors that is more like a slightly roundy/slanty postal graph.

  239. @RichardTaylor

    Man is a social being/animal.

    Aristotle

  240. Cido says:
    @oliver elkington

    I would say that the French are generally more northern European, even their temperament is not quite anything like that of the Italians or Spanish, France is also a massive industrial nation

    Ok. But there are elements that Northern Europeans don’t have. For example the rich aesthetics. The same can be said about Northern skills. Scientific activity in Germanic countries are better than in France.

  241. @Dieter Kief

    Great stuff! What makes Hegel’s dialectic so rich are the numerous interpretations one can conjure from it. I can see it as an allegory on the domestication of man; a retelling of the journey through Lewis H. Morgan’s categories of savagery, barbarism to civilization. The key to each stage is increasing domestication. To better understand these categories, for animals the corresponding would be wild, tame/feral, and domesticated. For animals, domestication is an increasing dependance on man. For man, domestication is an increasing dependence on elites.

    In Hegel’s allegory, the two men meet as savages and immediately fight in pursuit of “recognition”. If they both die, nothing changes, no dialectical process is initiated. But if one man loves his life more than his freedom, he will submit to the other man who is willing to fight to the death. One man screams uncle and a relationship of servitude and eventually interdependence is established. The lord and the servant becomes feral/tame. As the servant acquired to ability to increasingly control and master the material world, he becomes domesticated. The lord remains feral/tame as he is unable to produce and only able to consume. He is now dependent on the servant having lost the ability to intervene in the material world.

    For human civilization it is similar. Savage man learns to domesticate fire. When he eventually domesticates plants and animals, he become barbarous. Little does he know though that the domestication of plants and animals is a two way street, little by little barbarous man becomes dependent on his crops and animals. At this point, man’s production powers are high enough so that elites can start to form and live off the surplus value that the increasingly domesticated masses are able to produce. Civilization was born with elites controlling irrigation systems. Full blown slave economies appeared in Greece and Rome. Barbarous Germanic tribes overran the inefficient Roman world and feudalism was born. In its turn the bourgeoisie eventually “freed” the peasants from both their servitude and access to any means of subsistence and in the process turned them into free wage slaves. The problem of capitalism was feral elites ruling over domesticated workers.

    Alexandre Kojove continued the Hegelian dialectic to the point of civilizing the lord so as to make the servant and lord in similar, civilized positions. Post WW2, Les Trentes Glorieuses was the golden age of capitalism precisely because capitalist elites were “domesticated” in every sense of the word. It was ironically enough, fear of Marxism, that domesticated the capitalist beasts. But with the fall of the Berlin Wall, western elites are increasingly feral, and have shifted production to cheaper lands. This lack of production is at the same time increasingly turning the American masses feral/tame. At the extremes, feral would describe antifa/BLM, meth heads, etc., while tame would describe obese white opioid addicts. In general, the population is getting increasingly feral/tame as consumption increasingly dominates over production. In contrast, through production, China is increasingly becoming the lords of the world. Their elites are authoritarian but clearly domesticated in the sense of being nationalist. In their corner of the world, the Chinese are doing their best to domesticate what is increasingly becoming a feral global capitalism.

  242. Malla says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    And unlike North America or Australia, India was already densely populated, so it wasn’t somewhere Britain exported surplus population.

    1] India had a huge supply of cheap labour. Near 1600 AD,Indian labour wage was 1/5th of the British labour wage in Silver wage. The Great Divergence in between Western Europe and the rest of the World had already started.
    2] Lord Wellesley Governor General of India was against much White immigration to India as he thought that the White immigrants might eventually do an American style revolution. They did not expect the brown natives doing something of the sort. Until Lord Macaulay introduced liberal Western education, soon Western education Indian elites were reading about the American Revolution and “getting ideas”.
    3] Indian caste system mindset made large colonization of India counterproductive but also made ruling India easy. Let me explain, why do you think a tiny number of British men could so easily rule India for so long.
    many reasons
    a] Military conquests. The British were militarily hard to defeat both by Indian powers as well as mutineers. Partly because of discipline, superior technology, bravery in battle as well as good physical and intellectual traits of the British and Europeans in general (Dutch, French). This led to awe among Indians for the British.
    b] Good rulership overall. British taxation rates were low, modern technology like railways/medicine etc… was permeating in Indian society improving people’s lives, British justice system was superior and more fair, the British put an end to thugees, pindari dacoits, the British united the Indian subcontinent under Pax Britannia. No more Mughals, Maratha, Sikhs, Afghans etc… attacking each other and ravaging the land. There was peace. That is why other European travelers who came in the earlier period to India wrote about the “placid masses” of British India.
    c] The Important point, the British were respected because they did not do any manual work or farming. See the Indian caste system looks down upon people who do any form of manual work including farming but excluding soldiering. Soldiering is kshatriya (k is silent) or warrior caste, so White people soldiering was OK. Brahmins did not do manual work and so were respected the most. Nor did vaishya traders. If there would have been large scale settlement of Europeans in India as farmers, White people would have lost the respect and controlling Indians would be harder. Indians would not easily submit to people who do manual labour, it would be loss of status. Strangely in the minds of Indians, because Whites did not do any manual work during the Raj, there has formed a belief that Whites need other races to manual work to survive, a kind of “weak parasite race”. What these buffoons do not realise it was because of their own caste system.
    d] Small number of British people could run India because the British sent their best to rule India. Intellectually, physically and morally superior people. The Indians immediately respected these ‘Sahibs’, Indians have an eye for quality and respected superiority. The Indian Civil service exams taken by Britishers was the toughest in the World at that time along with the similar exams among the Dutch for service in Indonesia or the Dutch East Indies. Later Indians too took these exams. These British civil servants, some of the brightest in the World had a tough life. Living across the vast lands of India they lived in harsh heat, suffered from loneliness as there were few British-men around, taking petitions from Indians and doing their service for Empire. After the Julianwala Baug incident, where the British Government itself went after General Dyer and tried to destroy him, many Britishers got disgusted by a Government bent on attacking its own Imperial civil servants (Like what France did in Algeria, the French generals found this out too) and the best and brightest of the British stopped trying for service in India, quality quickly deteriorated, the respect for the White Sahib deteriorated further precipitating the fall of British Raj further (as was planned by some Globalist factions [like the Jew Montague, Secretary of State for India] in Britain itself.)

    • Thanks: Mark G.
  243. Ian Smith says:
    @Alden

    White men will sleep with non-white women when white women aren’t around. And even in places like the antebellum South and the Caribbean, whiter looking women were still preferred (ex. wealthy men in New Orleans having quadroon or octoroon mistresses.

    There’s a reason that the only sex tourists to Africa are over-the-hill white women.

  244. @Steve Sailer

    I’m a little confused here. Do studies by Reich such as that reviewed by you in your 2020 article about Old, Weird Africa supercede the one I cited?

    It seems we’re looking at two distinct “ghost lineages”, a “modern” one and an “ancient” one. Reich seems to be talking about one that dates to 250,000 years ago, which existed alongside the other three that persisted on into modern times. The article I cited refers (I believe) to a ghost lineage which persisted into modern times but which had separated from our trunk of the hominid tree one million years ago but which had, right up to modern times, been bred back into our line through, well, sort of cross breeding.

    I’m confused by the two different time scales. Are these parallel or is the article I cited just plain wrong?

  245. @Etruscan Film Star

    Oops. I forgot to click the sarcasm button.

    I’m not even sure he was an actor. Some who’ve delved deeply into the topic say that the “cast lists” on which (something like) his name appears – a rare piece of tangible evidence that the guy from Stratford appeared on stage in front of an audience – are in fact lists of people who got paid for the performance of plays, which includes stage managers, schleppers, etc.

    P.S. I’d say that about half of all iSteve comments are either completely OT, or are just tangentially related to the subject at hand. That’s why I usually read the comment section even if the topic doesn’t grab me.

  246. T.Chris says:
    @oliver elkington

    Industrialization had nothing to do with race or temperament. It had to do with where resources (coal and hydropower) were located:

    https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/12/geography-and-industry.html

    Northern Italians are not Nordic. They’re fully Southern European genetically and phenotypically:

    https://italianthro.blogspot.com/p/italians101.html

    France has a lot of Iberian and Italian-like ancestry, even in the “Germanic” North:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0584-1

  247. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “Don’t call me stupid.” LOL

    FWIW, I was only recounting an experience from 33 years ago, when I enjoyed watching a black actor play the lead in a Shakespeare play — from just a few feet away — with tickets comped to me by Val Kilmer.

    I was not arguing that a black actor should play Othello, nor that he should be seen as a viable representation of Othello.

    However, having thought more about it, after reading your reply, I now remember that the play was not Othello, but Titus Andronicus. So, you CAN indeed call me stupid. I will accept that.

    Whether or not a black man should play Titus Andronicus is another question, one to which I am sure you have an answer.

  248. @ThreeCranes

    Pretty sure the Bantu were cow pastoralists since forever.

    The Bantu have a thousand problems, but not getting enough protein probably ain’t one.

  249. 3g4me says:
    @Anon

    @116 Anon[445]: It is not the ‘schools’ job to teach children. Children ought to be taught by their parents – beginning with morality, which is the basis of wisdom. Credentialism is one of the altars of conservatards.

  250. 3g4me says:
    @jb

    @120 jb: Anyone who uses the term ‘racism’ unironically is merely anti-White while larping as an erudite rationalist.

  251. FPD72 says:
    @SafeNow

    1. Which U.S. State is closest to Africa? Maine

    2. What country do you hit first when you go south from Detroit?
    Canada

    3. Which US State is the easternmost? Alaska (the western most Aleutian Island is in the Eastern Hemisphere).

    • Disagree: ScarletNumber
  252. 3g4me says:
    @Anonymous

    @235 Anonymous[160]: He’s a subcon squatting in America. He tried posting his bs at less ambiguous sites than Sailer’s and got run off by people unwilling to give his larping a pass.

  253. Anon[390] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hereward

    but they be set most commonly to vile things.

    Thank you. What do you think he meant by this sentence?

    • Replies: @Hereward
  254. Anonymous[390] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    For example, a sizeable proportion of adults with lactase persistence might take positive steps to secure a steady supply of milk and milk products, which in turn would increase the reproductive benefit.

    It’s called “lactose tolerance.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  255. Anon[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @Etruscan Film Star

    From analysis of context, it seems to me “wog” is not a fighting word. For many users it might have been intended as a slight put-down, but on the whole it was just humorous slang meaning any foreigner (“the wogs begin at Calais” is an example; do you not get that it’s a joke?). I’ve never heard of a bar fight or street march over somebody’s saying “wog.”

    “Wog” is like “Gentile.”

  256. @ScarletNumber

    On (3), I thought about the artifact of the 180th meridian too. I hope that wasn’t the trick. Let me go to my globe now, since Mr. Safenow has not written back yet, and look at this.

    Back. Man, not even close. The western tip of the Aleutian chain is still over 6,000 nautical miles from Somalia or what have you. (I am in nautical miles, because I used the string and compared to a curve down from the N. Pole – it went all the away to ~ 15 deg S., so 105 degrees and 1 degree of latitude = 60 nm.) From Maine, Africa is about (45 deg x 60 nm/deg) = only 2,700 nm or so. I only brought up the Aleutians because I thought there was some trick..

    The answers are:

    1) Maine
    2) Canada
    3) Maine

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  257. @Redneck farmer

    Science is racist and sexist. According to individuals who aren’t any good at it.

    Science is racist and sexist, according to blacks and women.

    TFTFY

  258. anon[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    This idea of societal respect as being something natural rather than being something the individual has to earn/achieve is one of the big (and rather destructive) errors of the woke mentality/mindset. – Natural rights are the foundation of the (Rousseauan) equity-concept that leads to big scale chaos, decay, and suffering.

    Earning respect by becoming is the masculine way.

    Being admired for existing is the feminine way.

    It should not come as any surprise to focus on philosophists such as Rousseau with critical lens and discover that they were not just effete but effeminate.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  259. Malla says:
    @oliver elkington

    This is true in some ways. For example, the Japanese seem quite similar to the English and Germans in many traits though with less individualism.
    However when outside of Europe, Europeans tend to see more inter-Europe similarities as compared to the non Europeans around them. For example, I was reading some book about some poor American tramp guy who was travelling the World. He ends up in Egypt and befriends a German tramp. A Greek businessman hires them for an easy temporary job with good pay and the two tramps realized that the Greek just wanted to help them. On the last day , day of payment, the Greek says that it broke his heart to see fellow Europeans being so poor in Egypt.
    Similarly after the Russo-Japanese wars, when Russian prisoners of war were brought to Japan, the Western Europeans in Japan, though some of them anti-Russian, could not help but feel that these Russian captives were their own kind and a sense of dread and fear fell on their hearts to see White prisoner of War under the command of Asian soldiers.

    • Replies: @oliver elkington
  260. @rebel yell

    Yep. Go from Ellensburg, up through Cle Elem and Rosyln (actual setting of parts of Northern Exposure) and then only 50 miles or so to the 3,000 ft high Snoqualmie pass on down to Seattle on the I-90. Within half an hour one can see a big change in the flora.

    • Replies: @Prester John
  261. The show biz folks nowadays seem to think they have the answer. In both the play and the Verdi/Boito opera based upon the same, the Moor is made up to look black. Thus authentic blacks like Larry Fishburne and James E. Jones could undertake the role and get away with it without drawing snickers. Incidentally, though I didn’t see the play, I’ve heard that Chris Plummer’s Iago outgunned Jones when they appeared in “Othello” on Broadway in the 70s. Then again Iago has always been the far more interesting of the two. That would NEVER pass muster if Shakespeare were a playwright in 21st century Yoo Ess of Aay though

  262. @Achmed E. Newman

    Totally concur. Been there, done that. Saw the same thing driving from the White Mountains of NE Arizona into Phoenix. In an hour or so you go from the so-called “Canadian zone” into a desert environment. From pine/Douglas fir to saguaro cactus/mesquite.

  263. Truth says:
    @utu

    So let me see if I understand your brilliant thesis:

    Moses was a white person, who married a white person, which greatly upset his brother and sister, which caused them to be reprimanded by God, yet somehow, this proves that the Hebrews were anti-miscegenation, although the bible says this absolutely nowhere.

    Am I somewhere along the right track on this one?

  264. syonredux says:

    If you liked to conceive of Othello as a tawny but decorous North African Christian, go for it. But if it intrigued you to think of Othello as a big rampaging black man from somewhere south of civilization, O.J. Simpson avant la lettre, well, Shakespeare wasn’t going to refuse to accept your price of admission either.

    Which explains why Shakespeare chose to make Othello a Black man: It’s more dramatic. As Winthrop Jordan notes in White Over Black:

    It was important, if incalculably so, that English discovery of Black Africans came at a time when the accepted standard of ideal beauty was a fair complexion of rose and white. Negroes not only failed to fit this ideal but seemed the very picture of perverse negation.

    The massive dichotomy dividing White from Black is just so much more fascinating than the muted opposition between White and Tawny….

  265. @Steve Sailer

    A point I should have stressed more is that the framework you hold in your head helps determine which evidence it’s easy for you to notice and remember.

    Sure. In its “weak” form, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis has significant explanatory power. Especially when discussing concepts that are already somewhat abstract. Hence the relentless “progress” in the reification of neologisms that we see in the narrative promotion industry (typically utilizing tropes first manufactured by academics in the social “sciences”).

    Just compare the assumptions embedded in the labels “racist” vs. “self-hating jew” [or the analogous terms “Uncle Tom” (more commonly called a “coon” these days), “banana,” “coconut,” etc.].

    The term “racist” invariably evokes the mental model that exhibiting “too much” in-group preference towards members of one’s own race/ ethny/ clade is a Very Bad Thing, perhaps even the Worst Thing Ever… for autochthonous Europeans and their diaspora only.**

    While the “self-hating jew” trope is based on exactly the opposite assumption — that for a certain tribe of Levantine origin, there is no such thing as “too much” in-group preference, and that exhibiting “too little” in-group preference is the Worst Thing Ever.

    And when it comes to human collective identities, the relationship between narrative and reality is a two way one: a positive group identity helps to maintain a particular group’s physical existence over time, while relentlessly attacking any sort of positive collective identity [deconstructing/ abolishing “Whiteness”] will have long term effects similar to more direct physical attacks.

    **GOPe types will often attempt to obscure/ mystify this meaning — which has been solidly established by almost a century of regular usage — by incorrectly claiming that non-Whites can somehow exhibit “racism” toward Whites; or at least that the term “racism” should encompass this meaning. But if you look at the way that defenders of the hegemonic narrative respond to this sort of low energy pilpul, they commonly employ the term “reverse racism”:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=reverse+racism&ia=web

    Because they know that the entire concept of so-called “racism” is intrinsically anti-White — and always has been. The now-dominant ideology of critical race theory makes this even more obvious. Stripped of its convoluted sophistry and empty blabbering, CRT dogma boils down to:
    – “Racism” is a Very Bad Thing
    Only Whites can be “racist”
    All Whites are “racist”
    Clearly “racist” is merely a pejorative term for people of European descent; an anti-White slur. It has no meaning beyond that. Trying to reappropriate/ redefine the term is pointless.

    This is also why we see The Narrative strain so hard to blame people of European descent for criminal attacks on Orientals that are overwhelmingly committed by Blacks — it makes zero sense in terms of the “terrain;” but fits perfectly into the desired “map.” If a particular social ill is attributed to so-called “racism,” it must be Whitey’s fault.

  266. @Rob McX

    Believing that evolution gave us groups as divergent as Samoans and Pygmies but at the same time every group has the exact same behavioral profile is akin to believing that Mosses parted the Red Sea or Jonah lived in a whale. New religion; same stupid humans. G-d, I miss Christians. I never thought it would come to this, but I’m much like those stereotypical Christians in the 80s (see Ned Flanders) in that I have to cut myself – and my children – off from popular culture. Only this time I’m the pagan and they’re the Taliban.

    Humans can’t live without religion, so it may as well be a mild one like Christianity. Wokianity is in heated competition with Islam for ‘Worst Religion Ever’.

    *I’m usually facetious and have great respect for the West’s Christian tradition. Also, I eat bacon. Lots of it.

  267. @Malla

    I think in America people generally feel closer to Europeans in general if they are of European descent regardless of how Med or Nordic they are. That is probably because America seems to have a very different view of what White is. For example i believe that Americans also often label west Asian Christians especially like Armenians as White, in Europe things are more complex and probably more honest, Germans even today tend to look down on the less “sophisticated” Slavs of south eastern and eastern Europe though have a grudging respect for the Russians with their technological and Space exploration achievements. Brits certainly don’t feel they have much in common with the noisier apartment dwelling Spaniards and Italians, indeed it is often living arrangements that place the likes of Spaniards firmly outside the North European camp who love their space, the outdoors and seem to have a bigger lust for travel and adventure.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  268. Shakespeare was clearly of the view (correctly) that Wogs begin at Calais.

  269. The single most important genetic divide in the human race is between sub-Saharans and everybody else. As geneticist David Reich of Harvard told poor, intellectually overmatched Angela Saini, sub-Saharans versus everybody else have been evolving largely separately for 70,000 years.

    What does living separately under different evolutionary pressures to everyone else have to do with blacks being in any way different from everyone else? We’re all the same, I tell ya. All the same.

  270. @Malla

    Nigel Cliff’s book on Vasco da Gamma is titled “The Last Crusade” as he sees his conquests as an extension of them. But by the time the British got involved, Islam was much weaker.

    The first generation of the Portuguese in India had some highly capable, honest administrators like Afonso de Albuquerque, but ~50 years later, the poet Camões was already lamenting decline.

  271. rec1man says:
    @utu

    In India, due to the caste system, any native who miscegenated with a Mlechcha ( non-Hindu ) was instantly outcasted and their family shunned

    There was a strong disincentive to miscegenate,

    Technically , per the caste system, the touch of a European required a cleansing bath

    In no other society would the natives impose a societal penalty

    • Replies: @Malla
  272. Hereward says:
    @Anon

    I’d say it means they were given the most menial tasks.

  273. @anon

    It would be rather helpful if – the West? – would understand, that Rousseau has his merits, but that he for sure is no man to make the general rules.

    Jordan Peterson understands this problem, as does the furious lesbian writer Camille Paglia – the only public intellectual with a sense for the hero and manliness…as it looks at times. Well Paglia and Joe Rogan, so there are two of them. I could even add Taki Theodoracopulos…

    Feminism is pretty much lost in the equality/equity trap. As is the woke left in general.

    As Peterson loves to point out, the reality is in the way of hard feminism/wokism, not least the social reality in the most elaborate social states like Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, and Sweden, where the differentiation in occupation along the lines of the sexes is stronger than in other societies. – The more women have the choice, the less they go out and work as bricklayers or canal-cleaners and mathematicians and go for the nurse job and teaching, childcare, social work, psychotherapy, etc.

    Earning respect by becoming is the masculine way.

    Being admired for existing is the feminine way.

    That’s a nice and precise way to express something real and important. With this difference along come the kids though. And societal merits/obligations – I really loved the way Jonathan Franzen shows that in his novel Freedom. – How it is Patty’s ability/task to connect her Berglund family to their neighbors after they have moved to a new house and begin to raise their kids.

  274. @Achmed E. Newman

    Safenow has responded, and for 3 he used the trick that the Aleutian Islands do indeed cross the 180th meridian. However, I content that it doesn’t make Alaska the eastern-most state. After all, would you say that Los Angeles is east of Tokyo, or west of Tokyo?

    [MORE]
    I would say that LA is east of Tokyo, even though Tokyo is in the east and LA is in the west. The western and eastern hemispheres are artificial constructs, unlike the northern and southern hemispheres.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  275. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Exactly. The term “Moor” was never used as a synonym for “Bantu.”

    See also “Saracen”. People tend to think of that term as an archaic equivalent to Mohammedan/ Muslim, but it actually goes back to pre-Islamic times (at least to the 400s) as a term used specifically for Arabs. “Moor” was used more in reference to Berbers/ North Africans. To illustrate the difference:

    When the indigenous peoples of Spain were attacked by settler-colonialist oppressors from the Maghreb in the early 700s, the invading army was largely made up of Moors, and was led by a Moor (Tariq ibn Ziyad), but the overall commander of that invasion (Musa ibn Nusayr), and the supreme leader of the Mohammedan settler-colonialist regime at the time ( Al-Walid I), were both Saracens.

    But because the rise of Islam was so closely associated with the Arab imperialist expansion, and the Berbers [a closely related people] were incorporated as allies in that project early on, both terms came to be used to refer to Muslims in general, without any implication of sub-Saharan ancestry. The Song of Roland [1th century] refers to the “black” skin of Saracens, but no one tries to argue that’s a reference to Negroes.

    Only about 75 yrs previously Francis I of France made a treaty with Suleiman of Ottoman Empire. So if anything, the Moors resemble Suleiman, not OJ.

    An illustration of the broader meaning of the term [Muslim], as Suleiman was a Turk — an invading tribe from Asia, not the Levant.

    another theme that Shakespeare may be pushing is that a sworn enemy of the West, Islam, a Moor, could be wed to Western European woman, was amazing, fantastic, jaw-dropping, as this simply wasn’t done. Perhaps the Bard wanted to stress the idea of peace between two powers (Italian states and Moorish empire) and that a wedding could achieve peace between two nations, a la Capulets and Montagues in Romeo and Juliet.

    Suleiman’s wife Roxelana, the first Haseki Sultan and the mother of his heir Selim II, was a Ruthenian [Polish] Christian who had been captured by Turk slave raiders, then sold in the Constantinople slave markets, before she ended up in the Sultan’s harem and moved up the ranks to wife status. Though I don’t think that led to any sustained pause in the Ottoman Empire’s constant slave raids or its imperialist aggression against European Christians…

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  276. @Dr. X

    Race, is a human construct. Yah sees nations, and will judge humans by the nations they are a part of, not skin color. Besides, the best way to learn about Nations (Races), is the 1611 KJV of The Bible, not so-called experts of lies. For instance, The Negroes are from the Tribe of Judah, and that fact will be painfully obvious to all pretty soon. Imagine what will happen when it is known that the most hated people on earth, ARE IN FACT YAH’S CHOSEN SEED. Limmee, guess… MORE HATE, AND SH** YOURSELF FEAR. I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE THE FACES OF THE EDOMITES/ESAU…LMAO

  277. @Ron Unz

    You are correct. The horn of Africa has admixture from lands to its east.

  278. syonredux says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    In Spanish and especially Portuguese America, they definitely view race in terms of gradients. And why is it that the Northern European colonizers, such as the English and Dutch, viewed (and still view) race in more absolute terms, even going as far to establish “one drop” rules?

    Can’t comment in detail on the Dutch, but the key difference between the Brits and the Iberians was the sex ratio. Anglo settler colonies (Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand) had a highly favorable sex ratio (in 17th century New England, it was nearly 50/50). Iberian colonies in the New World had very few European women, hence, miscegenation was a practical necessity. Indeed, the the 16th century Americas were a kind of sexual utopia for Iberian men, with lots of concubinage and de facto polygyny (the Church simply looked the other way).

  279. @ScarletNumber

    I haven’t found SafeNow’s response. Do you mean commenter FPD72? If so, I agree with you on the basic concept you expressed after the [MORE] tag. SafeNow’s wording was: Which US State is the easternmost?

    Hmmmm, I guess if you mean by that “the place with the most easterly longitude coordinate”, then OK. Alaska. If you mean “easternmost compared to the rest”, then, well, it’s Maine.

    Yes, indeed, “Western” vs. “Eastern” hemisphere are political geography terms, not basic geographical concepts as the Northern and Southern hemisphere are.

    I enjoyed the chance to look at the globe again. Thanks, all.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  280. syonredux says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The Anglo nations had more people who were willing to permanently settle abroad. Note, for example, the massive flow of English into New England in the 1630s.

  281. syonredux says:
    @utu

    The explanation for the differences between Spanish and Portuguese vs. English and Dutch should be looked in the religion and especially in Old Testament

    Don’t be a goon. The key difference was European women. The Anglo colonies had them, but the Iberians did not.

  282. @Malla

    Traditional Japanese music is an acquired taste. The “sho” is a multi-tone drone like bagpipes. I don’t mind traditional Japanese music, and I like bagpipes a lot, especially the piobaireachd. However, I have to admit that compared to Bach, harpsichords, cellos, etc, they are pretty undeveloped.

    Compare Japanese court music with western court music…

    Of course, common people had their own music, but I don’t think Japan fares well on that front either….

  283. @Jack D

    The Portuguese were of course always in contact with [Moors]

    Perhaps not always, but given that Moorish settler-colonialists invaded Iberia in the early 700s, and occupied it for 700+ years afterwards, it would seem that contact goes back quite a ways.

    And of course, people any coastal areas of Europe would be familiar with the risk of slave raids by Moors from the Barbary Slave States:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

    While the primary route to the penetration of sub-Saharan Africa was down along the coasts, the Moors also had camel caravans that went thru the desert to trade.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_slave_trade

    See also:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world

  284. Corvinus says:
    @Steve Sailer

    “Many Renaissance and Enlightenment Europeans such as Blumenbach (and, IIRC, Jefferson) noted that sub-Saharans adapted to white ways more readily than did other, more-standoffish races, such as North American Indians.”

    They adapted to ways of life different than them. In some cases, it was under threat of force or under duress.

  285. vhrm says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree with you more than not, and would probably have agreed fully at some point, but the ethnic violence around the breakup of Yugoslavia was a real wake-up call that i still don’t know what to make of. Some of it still continues in Kosovo apparently. To me that seems more Rawanda or Afghanistan stuff than Europe, but it happened. The BS being stoked in Eastern Ukraine isn’t too encouraging either.

    On the other hand i think Japan, South Korea and Taiwan seem to be quite compatible with modern technological cosmopolitan consumer society and culture.

    A VW and a Honda were probably always more alike and competitive with each other than either was with a Dacia. (1)

    I’m no anthropologist, but industrialization, world wars and post-industrialization have changed our lives and cultures so much in the past 100 years that it trumps what happened, culturally, in the previous 2000 at least in the first world nations.

    Whatever we once were, we’re globohomo now and most people, at least the non-poor, can get with the program.

    Significant current outliers for different reasons are most of Africa (prob. because of IQ and violence), the Middle East (because of Islam and tribalism) and China because of its Communist legacy of one party, quasi-totalitarian, low civil rights government. Ironically enough also a Western import.

    1) Though now Dacia’s part of Renault which is really “Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance” soo… it’s all one big happy world. Except for Carlos Ghosn who afaict ran afoul of Japanese culture and some nationalism. He’s probably not so happy.

  286. @Steve Sailer

    Bend is a sunny desert like much of the west, with the Deschutes river flowing through it from snow melt. It’s amazing how the snow melt can sustain a river so it flows year-round through a desert with little rain.
    That being said, I spent a weekend in a cabin in Bend two years ago during a non-stop downpour that canceled my son’s baseball tournament.

  287. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s called “lactose tolerance.”

    “Lactose tolerance” in adults is achieved through “lactase persistence” which adults in many populations lack.

    Lactase is the enzyme that enables lactose in milk products to be digested. Lactase is present in babies to permit human milk to be absorbed. Generally, lactase levels recede in adults who can no longer digest milk products (containing lactose) in any quantity. Lactose intolerance is quite common e.g. among East Asian adults.

    Lactose intolerant individuals must take lactase pills to enjoy cheesecake without deleterious after-effects.

    Certain other populations (e.g. Indo-European “Yamnaya” and Eastern/Southern Bantu) with long-standing cattle-raising cultures evolved to achieve lactase persistence into adulthood, thus permitting those adults to digest substantial quantities of milk and milk products containing lactose.

  288. Malla says:
    @rec1man

    In India, due to the caste system, any native who miscegenated with a Mlechcha ( non-Hindu ) was instantly outcasted and their family shunned. There was a strong disincentive to miscegenate,

    This is true, that is why it was easier for Europeans to get with more Muslim women, because by simple conversion, they would become Muslims. After all British Lieutenant-Colonel James Achilles Kirkpatrick married Hyderabadi Princess, Khiar-un-Nissa, who was a Sayyida or a pure descendant of Prophet Mohammed via Ali. This was much more difficult to do with snobby Hindus. Many if not converted, took the cut down there (you know what I mean, circumcise and sheeet..) to become agreeable for the Muslim ladies. However since 30% of all European men (not only Brits but French, Dutch , Portuguese and even Danes and Germans) at one time were married to Indian women, it is unlikely all of them were Muslim.
    In many cases Hindu women including upper caste women converted to Islam to marry some European. For example Mubarak Begum, wife of Sir David Ochterlony (Major-general Sir David Ochterlony, 1st Baronet of Pitforthy, 1st Baronet of Ochterlony, British Resident to the Mughal Court) started off from a poor upper caste Brahmin family in Pune and found her way to Delhi (as a nuatch girl) where she converted to Islam & married Sir Ochterlony, who built her the last great Mughal tomb, Mubarak Bagh. He was reputed to have thirteen Indian concubines (as seen by the British) or wives (as seen by others). Every evening, he used to take all thirteen of his wives on a promenade around the walls of the Red Fort, each on the back of her own elephant.

    Technically , per the caste system, the touch of a European required a cleansing bath

    Technically the touch of any non upper caste Hindu would have needed a cleansing bath. Even the Mughal Emperor ruling over us was an unclean mleccha (barbarian) according to our caste rule. They all ate beef after all.

    In no other society would the natives impose a societal penalty

    Such societal penalties against intermarriage is extremely common throughout the world. And dislike for intermarriage is again very common around the world. Even today, Gulf Arab men dislike their women marrying other Muslim Arabs let alone a non Arab Muslim and let alone a lowly Kaffir. But of course they have no qualms marrying women from other communities. LOL.

  289. Malla says:
    @oliver elkington

    There is a definite Northern Euro-Southern Euro Divide. Northern Europeans (all the way to Russia in the East) love the outdoors more and love to live in homes separated from others with a bit of nature (gardens and trees) around their houses. Southern Euros prefer (or do not mind) living close to each other and like urban living more. Traditionally the Northern Euro types were more into camping and a love for outdoors. However now all that has spread among other races, today even Indians, influenced by the West are getting more into camping and stuff.
    The Japanese too have this love for nature but in a different way. More so than Koreans and Chinese.

  290. AndrewR says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Japan stayed aware of foreign technology and culture during their isolation period. They were caught off guard by Perry but they were not isolated as that person claims.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  291. @ThreeCranes

    That would appear to suggest that a species of people, a la the Neanderthals, interbred with Sub-Saharans. But DNA samples show that Sub-Saharan blacks contain no DNA from Neanderthals at all. There’s no evidence that Neanderthals were even on the African Continent, much less tens of thousands of miles south (around modern South Africa area) just to interbred with blacks, whereas we do know that Neanderthals did breed with Asians and Caucasians.

    So perhaps this speculation that blacks bred with another species is just that…mere speculation and nothing more.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @anon
  292. @keypusher

    Beowulf. One of the pillars of what lead to the English language and influenced far and wide creative people, from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, Kurosawa’s 7 Samurai, to the Beatles’ Yellow Submarine film.

    As an epic poem, Beowulf ranks among the first order of the early previous millennium.

  293. @Wade Hampton

    Wade Hampton asked me:

    But different races clearly have different cultures, even when living side by side for centuries. Where do those cultural differences come from, do you suppose?

    Cultural differences come largely from history — often contingent historical events — and partly from the environment. E.g., almost all historians I know of think that Russian culture would have been very different had the Mongols not conquered Russia in the late Middle Ages.

    The one thing we know for absolute certain is that these cultural difference do not come from immutable genetic differences involving personality traits or intelligence.

    The reason we know that with such certainty is that genetic traits for which there is wide variation within a population are simply not immutable. They respond to selective pressures and can change with remarkable rapidity over just a few generations.

    Everyone knows this when it comes to breeding dogs, but the exact same population-genetics analysis applies to humans. If a ruthless dictator were able single-mindedly to control the breeding of African-Americans, he could raise (or lower) the average IQ by dozens of points within a few generations. The same, of course, applies to White Americans or to Russians or Chinese or Brazilians.

    But aren’t there now genetic differences among different human populations with regard to average IQ, personality, etc.? I defer to the Harvard paleo-geneticist David Reich, who knows far more than I do about this subject: his answer is that, sure, there almost certainly is.

    But, again, any such variation is itself the product of selective pressures due to past history, culture, and environment. And it can change over time, potentially in a few generations.

    Given the reality of natural selection, genetics is not an independent variable.

    Indeed, there is strong evidence that Caucasian populations are now undergoing a very serious decline in genetic intelligence: given current trends, White IQ scores may be lower than current Black scores sometime in the next century. (See Woodley of Menie and Dutton’s At Our Wits’ End.)

    Serious workers in the field of HBD — Sailer, Razib Khan, etc. — know this as well as I do.

    But I fear a lot of non-scholars interested in the subject have yet to grasp this simple and very, very certain fact.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  294. Malla says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    That would appear to suggest that a species of people, a la the Neanderthals, interbred with Sub-Saharans.

    The “ghost population” the Black Africans mixed with were not neanderthal but something very primitive, maybe some form of homoerectus.There were Caucasian looking people in Africa before Black Africans even evolved, living parallel to the ancestors of Black Africans (who had not evolved into Black Africans like today) check the Hofmeyr Skull found in South Africa older than any Khoi San and Bantus Skulls ever found but having physical traits similar to UP Europeans. Besides it seems Africa, that huge continent had many parallel races, many of them became extinct, check out the Ishango skull, which is of a race which is extinct today. So it seems Black Africans are actually a newer race but also a more primitive race of humans due to mixing with some primitive populations.
    And who said, African blacks did not get heir dose of Neanderthal too? They got it when Europeans migrated back to Africa.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/africans-carry-surprising-amount-neanderthal-dna
    Africans carry surprising amount of Neanderthal DNA
    By Michael Price
    Jan. 30, 2020
    For 10 years, geneticists have told the story of how Neanderthals—or at least their DNA sequences—live on in today’s Europeans, Asians, and their descendants. Not so in Africans, the story goes, because modern humans and our extinct cousins interbred only outside of Africa. A new study overturns that notion, revealing an unexpectedly large amount of Neanderthal ancestry in modern populations across Africa. It suggests much of that DNA came from Europeans migrating back into Africa over the past 20,000 years.

  295. Malla says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    The oldest current or modern Negroid Skull ever found is only 4,500BC ( or 6,500 years ago) revised from 4,200 dating… And the oldest progenitor of ” proto-Negroid ” ever found ( Iwo Eleru) date now to 9,100BC, so not even as old as we thought…. And Gobekli Tepe is older than the oldest proto -Negroid….

    Discussions on the OOA theory and why today’s Black Africans are not the ancestors of non Africans but have received DNA from Eurasians as well as ghost populations.
    Within Africa, fossil evidence suggests that AMH (Anatomically Modern Humans) and a variety of archaic forms coexisted for much of the last 200000 years. The archaic population introgressed into the ancestors of the present day Africans contributing 2 to 19% of their ancestry. Europeans are a far older race than Sub Saharan as the Hofmeyr Skull which is 35,000 years old in South Africa is similar to Upper Paleolithic Europeans but has no similarity with Khoi San or Bantus. Which means, Europeans had back migrated all the way to Southern Africa.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  296. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    That would appear to suggest that a species of people, a la the Neanderthals, interbred with Sub-Saharans.

    There is genetic evidence for that.

    But DNA samples show that Sub-Saharan blacks contain no DNA from Neanderthals at all.

    This should not be a surprise, given that the “ghosts” in question were not Neanderthal. They were some other group. Not Denisovan, either.

    So perhaps this speculation that blacks bred with another species is just that…mere speculation and nothing more.

    It is much more than speculation, at the very least it is a reliable inference from deduction.

  297. @Ron Unz

    Is that where I got the analogy from? Could be. Seems self-evident at this point that the word-thing/ map-territory/ narrative-reality relationships are closely analogous, but when and where I realized that… lost in the mists of time.

    Wade kinda reminds me of Caldwell — a NYT columnist who wrote a book with a considerable amount of frankly heretical content, and got some pushback for it, but no serious attempt to actually deplatform him.

    Meanwhile, given Gould’s strength in words but his weakness in thinking, I find it reasonably likely that he simply believed many of the absurdities he was spouting.

    Yeah he was a good pop science writer. I read [and liked] several of his other books in high school/ college before coming across Mismeasure, and finding it quite disappointing. Really gave me the impression “This guy’s making his point — that the more political significance attaches to a particular scientific question, the less ‘objective’ scientists are in examining it — but not in the way he thinks he is…”

    All of that extended argumentation about factor analysis and “reification” came across as just sophistry and handwaving [at the time, I wasn’t aware of the importance of the latter concept in Marxist thought]. Pretty obvious motivated reasoning on the internal evidence, even before the Morton fraud came out.

  298. @AndrewR

    They made a significant effort to keep tabs on Western advances in science and technology, while excluding almost all foreigners/ foreign cultural influences:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

    …body of knowledge developed by Japan through its contacts with the Dutch enclave of Dejima, which allowed Japan to keep abreast of Western technology and medicine in the period when the country was closed to foreigners, 1641–1853, because of the Tokugawa shogunate’s policy of national isolation (sakoku).

    Then shifted into high gear on the “Eastern ethics, Western technical learning” after Perry. One example:

    1853 Perry — Shogunate repeals ban on building large oceangoing vessels

    1854 Japanese complete construction of several [sailing] frigates, like this one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_warship_Sh%C5%8Dhei_Maru

    1863 First Japanese-built steam-driven warship

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_gunboat_Chiyodagata

    Working pretty hard with those hand-driven spindles, I guess.

  299. @Dieter Kief

    Natural rights are the foundation of the (Rousseauan) equity-concept that leads to big scale chaos, decay, and suffering.

    The “John Dewey of the 18th century” was the primary intellectual inspiration for both Robespierre and Saint-Just — the architects of the Terror.

    Not to mention:

    >”Expert” on child development/ education

    >Abandoned all 4 (5? No one seems to know for sure) of his children in orphanages

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  300. @candid_observer

    The man is an out-of-control control freak. He will tell you what you are allowed to think about.

    Yeah that sort of overwhelming drive to control the thoughts of the goyim — to “Shut it down!” — is a characteristic feature of toxic semitism:

    “If I may address my fellow Jews for a moment, consider this.”

    https://www.cato-unbound.org/2007/11/21/eric-turkheimer/race-iq

    Turkheimer believes that all narratives, facts, and hypotheses that are not officially-certified beforehand as “Good for the jews” should be ruthlessly suppressed. See also:

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/06/16/eric-turkheimer-jewish-ethnic-interests-masquerading-as-ethical-concerns/

  301. Malla says:
    @Expletive Deleted

    “Boohoo U steal our mega-diamond”?

    Actually the British had far more right to the Kohinoor diamond as they won it fair and square by war like many who possessed it earlier. The truth is that the average Indian has a poor grasp of history and barks around bullshit on the internet. Indian history books are just revenge and complaint porn, supported by international globalist commie post colonial “studies” propaganda . How the evul British did this and did that, a lot of lies and propaganda. Now the Muslims and Chinese are at the receiving ends of such Indian/Hindu revenge porn. When the revenge porn history was anti-British/anti-European, they both parties cheered on with glee. but now it has turned against them, they make excuses, scream, screech, are confused and blame “Indian fascism”. Indian be “fellow revolutionaries” when his fake revenge porn “history” was anti-British but now as it turns against them, they both parties scream “Indian be fascist and sheet”. Oy Vey.

    Anyways back to the Kohinoor diamond. It is believed that the Kohinoor diamond was acquired by Alauddin Khalji, brutal ruler of the Khalji dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate, when he invaded the kingdoms of southern India at the beginning of the 14th century and was probably in the possession of the Hindu Kakatiya dynasty. (Conqueror gets the diamond). It later passed to succeeding dynasties of the Sultanate, and founder of the Mughal Empire, Babur received the diamond in 1526 as a tribute for his conquest of Delhi and Agra at the Battle of Panipat. (Conqueror gets the diamond)

    [MORE]

    Following the 1739 invasion of Delhi by Nadir Shah, the Afsharid Shah Emperor of Persia, the treasury of the Indian Mughal Empire was looted by his army in an organised and thorough acquisition of the Mughal nobility’s wealth. After this spectacular victory, Iranian Emperor Nadir Shah captured Indian Mughal Emperor Mohammad Shah and entered Delhi. When a rumour broke out that Nadir had been assassinated, some of the Indians due to the humiliation of the defeat, attacked and killed Iranians; by midday 900 Iranian soldiers had been killed. Nadir, furious, reacted by ordering his soldiers to sack the city. During the course of one day (March 22) 20,000 to 30,000 Indians were killed by the Iranian troops and as many as 10,000 women and children were taken as slaves, forcing Mohammad Shah to beg Nader for mercy. In response, Nader Shah agreed to withdraw, but Mohammad Shah paid the consequence in handing over the keys of his royal treasury, and losing even the fabled Peacock Throne to the Iranian emperor. The Peacock Throne, thereafter, served as a symbol of Iranian imperial might. It is estimated that Nader took away with him treasures worth as much as seven hundred million rupees. Among a trove of other fabulous jewels, Nader also looted the Koh-i-Noor (meaning “Mountain of Light” in Persian) and Darya-ye Noor (meaning “Sea of Light”) diamonds. The booty they had collected was loaded on 700 elephants, 4,000 camels, and 12,000 horses. The plunder seized from India was so much that Nader stopped taxation in Iran for a period of three years following his return. Many low IQ Indian idiots prater aloud that the “evul British” stole the peacock throne, the British never had the peacock throne but it was always in Iran until it disappeared from history after the Islamic Revolution of 1971. Maybe some Mullah stole it and put it in his Swiss account? Iranian Emperor Nadir Shah also looted out the Darya-i-Noor diamond, which are now in the Iranian Crown Jewels, why India not demand this back??? The diamond is currently in the Iranian Crown Jewels collection of the Central Bank of Iran in Tehran. Why only target Britain? Post colonial hate YT? Iranian Emperor Nadir Shah exclaimed Koh-i-Noor!, Persian and Hindi-Urdu for “Mountain of Light“, when he obtained the famous stone. This course of events which forever weakened the Indian Mughal Empire not only shocked and mortified the Mughals themselves permanently, but also shocked other powers in India as well, including the Marathas, Rajputs, British, French and the Dutch.

    • Replies: @Malla
  302. Malla says:
    @Malla

    After Iranian Emperor Nadir Shah was killed and his empire collapsed in 1747, the Koh-i-Noor fell to his grandson, who in 1751 gave it to Ahmad Shah Durrani, founder of the Afghan Empire, in return for his support. One of Ahmed’s descendants, Shuja Shah Durrani, wore a bracelet containing the Koh-i-Noor on the occasion of Mountstuart Elphinstone’s visit to Peshawar in 1808. A year later, Shuja formed an alliance with the British Empire to help defend against a possible invasion of Afghanistan by the Russian Empire in Central Asia. This was the period of the Great Game in between the British and Russian Empires. He was later overthrown, mostly with the help of Imperial Russian agents but fled with the diamond to Lahore to seek British help, where , founder of the Sikh Empire, Ranjit Singh, in return for his hospitality, insisted upon the gem being given to him, and he took possession of it in 1813. Later Ranjit Singh donated 125,000 rupees to Shuja for the diamond.

    In June 1839, Ranjit Singh suffered his third stroke, and it became apparent that he would die soon. On his deathbed, he started giving away his valuable possessions to religious charities, and appointed his eldest son Kharak Singh as his successor. A day before his death, on 26 June 1839, a major argument broke out between his courtiers regarding the fate of Koh-i-Noor. Ranjit Singh himself was too weak to speak, and communicated using gestures. Bhai Gobind Ram, the head Brahmin of Ranjit Singh, insisted that the king had willed Koh-i-Noor and other jewels to the Jagannath Temple in Puri (Brahmins love accumulate wealth in temples). However, treasurer Beli Ram insisted that it was a state property rather than Ranjit Singh’s personal property, and therefore, should be handed over to Kharak Singh.

    [MORE]

    On 8 October 1839 the new emperor Kharak Singh, was overthrown in a coup by his prime minister Dhian Singh. The prime minister’s brother Gulab Singh, King of Jammu, came into possession of the Koh-i-Noor. Kharak Singh later died in prison, soon followed by the mysterious death of his son and successor Nau Nihal Singh on 5 November 1840. Gulab Singh held onto the stone until January 1841, when he presented it to emperor Sher Singh in order to win his favour. On 15 September 1843, both Sher Singh and prime minister Dhian Singh were assassinated in a coup led by Ajit Singh Sandhawalia. However, the next day in a counter coup led by Dhian’s son Hira Singh the assassins were killed. Aged 24, Hira Singh succeeded his father as prime minister, and installed the five-year old infant Duleep Singh as emperor. The Koh-i-noor was now fastened to the arm of the child emperor in court at Lahore.

    Ranjit Singh always instructed never to attack the British Empire territories. But after he died, the Sikh Empire did exactly that. When Ranjit Singh died in 1839, the Sikh Empire began to fall into disorder. There was a succession of short-lived rulers at the central Durbar (court), and increasing tension between the Army and the Durbar. Eventually, the increasing tension led to the Sikh Army to invade British territory, under weak leaders. This led to the hard-fought First Anglo-Sikh War.

    It was followed up by the Second Anglo Sikh War, when rebellious troops murdered a British agent, Lieutenant Patrick Vans Agnew. The war was The Sikh Empire and Afghan Empire on one side and the British Empire on the other ended in defeat for the Sikh-Afghan coalition.

    On 21 February, Gough (Field Marshal Hugh Gough, 1st Viscount Gough, KP, GCB, GCSI, PC) attacked the Sikh coalition Army at the Battle of Gujrat. Here, he began the battle with a three-hour bombardment from almost 100 guns, which drove the Sikhs from their hasty entrenchments. He then sent his cavalry and horse artillery after them in a pursuit which lasted for four hours. The Sikh loss was estimated at between 3,000 and 5,000 men and 53 guns; the British casualties were 96 killed and 700 wounded. On 12 March, Chattar Singh and Sher Singh surrendered to Sir Walter Gilbert near Rawalpindi. Some 20,000 men (mainly irregular cavalry) laid down their arms. The Afghan contingent fled back to Afghanistan through Attock and Peshawar, which the British reoccupied. Afghan King Dost Mohammad Khan later signed a treaty with the British acknowledging British possession of these cities. The war resulted in the fall of the Sikh Empire, and the annexation of the Punjab and what subsequently became the North-West Frontier Province, by the British Empire. The Last Treaty of Lahore was signed, officially ceding the Koh-i-Noor to Queen Victoria.
    Article III of the treaty read:
    “The gem called the Koh-i-Noor, which was taken from Shah Sooja-ool-moolk by Maharajah Ranjeet Singh, shall be surrendered by the Maharajah of Lahore to the Queen of England.”
    The governments of India, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan have all claimed rightful ownership of the Koh-i-Noor and demanded its return ever since India gained independence from the UK in 1947. The British government insists the gem was obtained legally under the terms of the Last Treaty of Lahore and has rejected the claims.

  303. @Crouchback

    “Iago refers to Othello as “the thick lips.”

    Uh, some white people have thick lips too. Now if his hair had been mentioned, then you might be getting somewhere.

    “Othello is clearly sub-Saharan.”

    No, he’s not. More likely North African as where the Moors originated.

    “The assumption that the word “Moor” has only one signification”

    Historically speaking, for nearly 1,000 yrs (pre-Afrocentric History), it did.

    “is to ignore everything else going on in the play.”

    And to assume that he’s Sub-Saharan is to ignore the historical context of which the play was written. The Moors were well known to Western Europe (and for not being Sub-Saharan).

    Also, in the UK, for several centuries, they do tend to use the word “dark” and “black” for those who aren’t Sub-Saharans. Example, Indians (dot, not feather) were often referred to as black. As were some North Africans.

    Again and again: The word “black” in the US has a very explicit and one meaning only: Sub-Saharan peoples. In the UK they referred to people from various parts of the world (yes, including Sub-Saharans). The primary definition for being “black” or “dark” in the UK simply meant having darker skin than normal.

    Example: the term “Black Irish” does not refer to Shauntavius O’Reilly. Neither does it refer to Demetrius O’Donnell. It referred to Irish peoples who had: Darker features, and also some who had perhaps interbred with Spanish peoples who were originally part of the Armada in 1588, some of the extra ships were blown towards Ireland.

    Example: King Edward III’s son, Edward, the Prince of Wales was known as “The Black Prince.” No, he wasn’t black (Sub-Saharan), it was due to the fact of the color of the armor that he wore in battle during the Hundred Years War.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  304. @James Forrestal

    “The Song of Roland [1th century] refers to the “black” skin of Saracens, but no one tries to argue that’s a reference to Negroes.”

    Not yet, but give it time. Best not to let Ta-Nahesi or Kendi get wind about this little tidbit, or they’ll try and run with it.

    Funny, they’re the only race that seems to feel a psychological need to directly insert themselves into every other race’s history. Why is that?

  305. @YetAnotherAnon

    “There’s an English word, “blackamoor”, used to describe any dark-skinned African,”

    Including North Africa (non-Sub-Saharans). Thanks.

    Othello is explicitly referred to as a Moor (capital M), meaning an explicit designated place of origin, meaning North Africa. As the Bard consulted Holinshed’s Chronicles for his Histories, he certainly would have had access to a map of the known world at the time.

    Also, up until about 30 or so yrs ago, the Brits tended to refer to most peoples with dark(er) skin than whites as either “dark” or “black”. This would include Mid. Easterners, Indians, Pakistanis, as well as Africans. The first three groups are not Sub-Saharans.

  306. @Malla

    A lot of news for me. Thanks.

  307. anon[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Given the reality of natural selection, genetics is not an independent variable.

    Human behavior is a mix of nature and nurture. Anyone who has raised children knows this at some level. To see a child acting similar to a parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, etc. can be a surprise, but should not be. The behaviors of entire families will show certain similar patterns, even across the extended family. A clan of interrelated people will show those same patterns.

    The behaviors of a clan or even a village are thus a mix of nature and nurture. We call those large scale behaviors “culture”.

    Therefore “culture” in in part a genetic inheritance. Although civic nationalists cannot see this, it remains true.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  308. @James Forrestal

    Joseph Joubert (Paul Auster translated some of his – sentences, epigrams and: Wrote a foreword to his little edition, which ends with an utterly humane anecdote about the fate of one of the copies he had handed over to friends and which became the magic focus of a reading group in a psychiatric clinic – incredible, but not impossible = beautiful story) – oh: Joseph Joubert and Friedrich von Schiller and Immanuel Kant all stepped back from their revolutionary enthusiasm after la terreur had taken place. – Goethe did not have to step back – same as Edmund Burke and Arthur Schopenhauer and – Jean Paul (= Friedrich Richter).
    Rousseau was a character though, whereas John Dewey – – more a bureaucrat or a perfectionist or some such? – Descartes’ l’homme machine?

    PS
    I’m glad I read your George-Floyd comments. You were the only one who rejected Dr. Mark Tobin’s testimony with good arguments around here.

  309. @Expletive Deleted

    or shoving the garlicky buggers out

    The French are much less garlicky than the Italians, who in turn can’t hold a candle to the Koreans. A Korean gentleman just off the plane once nearly floored me with his breath.

    Korean Narrative: What’s With the Garlic?

    Something about being trapped on a peninsula with aggressive men?

  310. @Malla

    Now that’s more like it. Cogent historical detail. Me gusta. Moar plz.

    Also; it’s just a bit of hard-boiled coal. We’ve got loads of that.

    The Ivans worked out how to make them artificially, sometime possibly (failing memory) back in the 1970s. And so diamonds became actually valuable as useful industrial materials (which is where real Wealth comes from).
    India (in the widest sense) has much more useful minerals; carborundum sands, sapphires, large crystalline birefringent feldspars, and even tin (but not as much as that long skinny bit of [wherever it was] across the sea below Burma. Malaya?)

    My favourite stones are still franked with “India Oilstone” [grade whatever], despite them being cooked up in a foundry in Brum or something. Which I suppose would make them fakes.
    Still beats Charnley Forest, which takes just forever after a busy day, and you just wouldn’t need that. Or even a zinc plate and aforesaid Indian carborundum sand [sieved to grade].
    No, I’m not a poof, nor a barber, so Washita and Indian Lake (some kind of Yellowstone novaculite, but the box is worn to shit and now illegible,so I could be wrong) don’t get a look-in. Don’t have the time.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  311. @Expletive Deleted

    tsk. Silly old man that I am, I forgot rubies. LASERs and that sort of thing.

  312. @PiltdownMan

    That’s very welcome. I thought they were all gone. It’s probably the reason my dad absolutely hated the Labour Party all the time I remember.
    Thanks. Now that Princess Nicola has permitted international travel since last Monday, I feel inspired to bully the family into the car and go have a looksee.

    I was born on station. Upwood, by Ramsey. Not too far from where the missus’ mother died in a “home” in Broughton. After that, we found out she’d worked at Bletchley. Nobody knew, not even her late husband (R.A. captain 1940-43(malaria)).
    Been told to just shut up about it. So she did. To her dying day.
    Did like a crossword though, and a spot of gin.

    • Thanks: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  313. @Expletive Deleted

    There’s also a more complete example at RAF Museum, Cosford, apparently. I’ll get there someday. 🙂

  314. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Black is a fairly common surname in the UK.

  315. @Jonathan Mason

    Black is also a somewhat noticeable surname in the US as well, among a certain group (non-Sub-Saharan).

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  316. @Jonathan Mason

    The main point of Steve’s otherwise excellent article is downplayed. The reason that nations such as the US have a clear explicit understanding of the word “black” is because they have significant populations of POC. Whereas until fairly recent times, Europe did not. Elizabethan England did not have a significant sizable population of blacks, period. This idea that they were expert nautical crewmen (Sub-Saharan Africans weren’t particularly known for their naval exploits, as opposed to the English or the Portuguese), is utterly ridiculous. They were, however, known as being useful for doing forced manual labor, particularly in excessive high temperatures. In Africa, conquered blacks who weren’t eaten by their enemies were often reduced to slavery. In Portugal and Spain, they were put to work on their estates as slaves.

    Shakespeare was looking for a distinctive characteristic to show his character Othello was not from around here (16/17th century England). He could just as easily have made him from Arabia and the audiences would’ve taken the hint. It’s basically the same thing. The key word is that Othello is a Moor, similar to Egypt or Arabia. It’s only in the modern understanding of the word “black” that it is taken completely out of context of what the audiences nearly half a millennium would have understood the term to mean. In other words, Shakespeare may or may not have had a problem casting OJ Simpson as Othello, but he’d have said “But that dude’s not what I meant. Othello is a Moor.” And Western Europeans knew exactly who the Moors were and what they looked like. Unlike today, apparently. (In 1991 Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, the Moor in 12th Century England is played by Morgan Freeman).

    And, for nearly three and a half centuries, the actors who played Othello tended to be white. Laurence Olivier was Oscar nominated for his 1965 portrayal as Othello (and Olivier wasn’t black). Orson Welles played Othello in 1951, and his film was nominated for best picture at the Cannes Film Festival (and Welles wasn’t black either). Obviously it would be harder to cast a white actor in the role of Othello today, but the fact remains that that was how Othello was viewed: Basically, Othello was like Egyptian actor Omar Sharif. Google Omar Sharif and the meaning becomes clear.

  317. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    For those who still don’t understand the context of Othello, if anyone were to watch Wyler’s 1959 film Ben-Hur, with Charlton Heston. The Arab Sheik Ilderim is played by Hugh Griffin (who won the Oscar for Supporting Actor). Just google Hugh Griffin in Ben-Hur and the understanding should be clear.

  318. @Malla

    • Replies: @Malla
  319. @PhysicistDave

    “Indeed, there is strong evidence that Caucasian populations are now undergoing a very serious decline in genetic intelligence: given current trends, White IQ scores may be lower than current Black scores sometime in the next century. ”

    This doesn’t quite add up, unless you mean that white population IQs will drop below black scores. There really isn’t any direct evidence that black IQ scores are significantly rising (at least in the US) to significantly challenge white’s IQs. Also, as black IQ scores have risen over the past half century, so too have white’s IQs. So the standard deviation remains. Where is the full evidence that black IQ’s are steadily rising and closing the IQ gap with whites? It doesn’t exist. So then, the only way would be if white’s IQs drop below blacks. Currently, US blacks IQ scores are around 85, with whites IQs around 100. Whites IQ would have to drop a full deviation. The question is, why would this occur?

    What you seem to be suggesting is that whites are slowly being dumbed down over the next century. How exactly is this occurring? You don’t directly explain this phenomena. Honestly cannot see how this would occur without blacks IQs also declining as well over time. If indeed whites IQs are dropping as a whole, it would seem to make sense that blacks IQs would also drop as well. There is nothing per se to suggest that blacks IQs as a whole are significantly improving, and that over the next century, they will be at the level currently occupied by whites (e.g. that over time, the mean IQ for blacks will rise to 100, about where whites IQs currently stands). Currently, the evidence does not suggest that this is occurring, correct? So if its not happening for blacks, how exactly will their IQs significantly improve?

    Ironically, one small way that black’s IQs would rise is due to intermarriage with whites, with the bi-racial offspring IQs landing somewhat between the two races.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  320. @anon

    anon[383] wrote to me:

    Therefore “culture” in in part a genetic inheritance. Although civic nationalists cannot see this, it remains true.

    Civnats cannot see it because what you assert simply is not true.

    There is a filmmaker named Carma Hinton who was raised by crazy Maoist parents in China: her first language was Chinese. She speaks English with a Chinese accent.

    She and her parents were all Caucasians.

    Human cultures are not genetic inheritances. All of the evidence is that any human being can acquire any human culture if raised in it from birth.

    • Replies: @anon
  321. Malla says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Interesting Stuff. Thanks. Lord Hanuman, the monkey God is often worshiped by body builders.

  322. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo/Zatoichi wrote to me:

    This doesn’t quite add up, unless you mean that white population IQs will drop below black scores.

    Yes, that is what I mean: if current trends continue, in a century or two, Whites will have lower IQ scores than Blacks currently have.

    YZ also asked:

    Whites IQ would have to drop a full deviation. The question is, why would this occur?

    That is my whole point: differential reproduction. Dumb Whites are having more kids than smart Whites.

    Dysgenics.

    Read Dutton and Woodley of Menie’s book. The evidence is pretty compelling.

    Whites are getting dumber.

    People my age have seen this anecdotally, but the systematic evidence backs us up.

    It is just a fact of population genetics that if some trait varies widely within a population, then moderate selective pressures can shift that trait quite dramatically in a few generations.

    You don’t know this?

    Read the book.

    • Replies: @Malla
  323. anon[581] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    There is a filmmaker named Carma Hinton who was raised by crazy Maoist parents in China: her first language was Chinese. She speaks English with a Chinese accent.
    She and her parents were all Caucasians.

    So?

    Human cultures are not genetic inheritances.

    Human behavior is partly genetic. Human culture stems from human behavior. Therefore human culture in in part genetic. This is not a difficult chain of reasoning to grasp. Although it causes cog-dis in the faith of blank-slate true believers.

    All of the evidence is that any human being can acquire any human culture if raised in it from birth.

    All the evidence? Really? Not one single counter-example exists to this sweeping generalization?

  324. @anon

    anon[581] asked me:

    [Dave]All of the evidence is that any human being can acquire any human culture if raised in it from birth.

    [anon]All the evidence? Really? Not one single counter-example exists to this sweeping generalization?

    I should have said any human who is not disabled in some way: obviously, someone who is severely mentally disabled cannot pick up any culture.

    But, yes, with that caveat, there are no known exceptions.

    You don’t know this?

  325. @anon

    anon[581] wrote to me:

    Human behavior is partly genetic. Human culture stems from human behavior. Therefore human culture in in part genetic. This is not a difficult chain of reasoning to grasp. Although it causes cog-dis in the faith of blank-slate true believers.

    Civnats (and indeed everyone else) have no problem grasping this: it is, after all, why chimps and mole rats cannot acquire human culture.

    But all humans who are not disabled in some way can pick up any human culture if exposed to it from birth.

    You really do not know this?

    You seem not to understand what “blank-slatism” is: the “blank-slate” idea denies that there is such a thing as human nature. That of course is wrong: there is such a thing as human nature, just as there is such a thing as chimp nature or mole rat nature (or, for that matter, gadolinium nature or sulfur nature).

    But what allows human beings to pick up any human culture they have been exposed to from birth on is part of this generic human nature. It is not specific to any race.

    There are no known exceptions (again, among humans who are not disabled in some way).

    Again, you really don’t know this???

  326. Malla says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Dumb people of every race are having more children. So it is unlikely Blacks will overall overtake Whites on IQ. Also populations eventually may deviate to their mean with time. The IQ gap is much more deep for some reason.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  327. CCG says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    For starters, the British were likely better administrators than the Portuguese.

    I disagree. British people prefer moving to Goa instead of coastal areas of British India. British residents in Goa have also started NGOs (e.g. Mango Tree) back home in the UK in order to encourage the flooding of Goa with immigrants from the rest of the Indian subcontinent, ignoring objections from the native Goans. If the British rule of India was so superior, then none of these native British or Indian immigrants would bother to come here.

    • Agree: RSDB
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  328. @Malla

    Malla wrote to me:

    So it is unlikely Blacks will overall overtake Whites on IQ.

    If you look back at what I wrote, you will see that I very carefully said that, if current trends continue, then Whites will end up with IQs lower than the IQs Blacks currently have. I made no prediction about future Black IQs.

    Malla also wrote:

    The IQ gap is much more deep for some reason.

    No, it isn’t. It is just selective pressures — population genetics in action. There are enough very bright Blacks that if selective pressure were pushing for higher Black IQs, that is what we would get.

    The racial genetics of IQ is still unsettled scientifically. But if it should turn out that Black IQ is currently lower than White IQ for genetic reasons, it will be easy to come up with selective pressures: the environment in sub-Saharan Africa tends to select for K vs. r strategies (no winters and lots of nasty endemic diseases and parasites), domestication (i.e., slavery) tends to make animals dumber, etc. Indeed, there are too many possible explanations: the real problem would be figuring out which was correct.

    There is no deep reason for genetic differences among different groups of human beings for traits for which there is wide variation within the group. It is just natural selection. The only problem is correctly identifying the particular selective pressure.

    And those pressures can and do change. Whatever the current genetic ranking among ethnic groups for IQ happens to be, in a few centuries or millennia it is likely to be different.

    • Replies: @Malla
  329. Malla says:
    @CCG

    ritish residents in Goa have also started NGOs (e.g. Mango Tree) back home in the UK in order to encourage the flooding of Goa with immigrants from the rest of the Indian

    Sometimes I believe the British supported the Indian State in taking over Goa and thus backstabbing the Estado Novo regime of Portugal and not honouring the Angko-Portuguese defense treaty. Britain behind the scenes, has a Globalist Judao Communist deep State.
    There is a theory that the British deep state defended the Falklands not because they cared for the Falkland Islanders (who wanted to be with Britain 100%), the Brits were giving away their possessions like hot cake, they went against the Rhodesians. Actually this is what the Argentinian regime was banking on. Many believe the real reason the Communist Globalist Judao British Deep State responded against the Argentine invasion of Falklands/ Malvinas was to help bring down the right winged Leopoldo Galtieri regime (which was becoming unpopular anyways).

  330. Malla says:
    @PhysicistDave

    And those pressures can and do change. Whatever the current genetic ranking among ethnic groups for IQ happens to be, in a few centuries or millennia it is likely to be different.

    Makes sense but these are all speculations for the moment and hopefully policies are not made on such possibilities (IQ rise) in the future. The best policy in the long term would still be racial separation and high IQ blacks should help their own nations. And hopefully White nations would be able to arrest the IQ drop and work towards increasing it.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  331. Malla says:
    @CCG

    I disagree.

    It is difficult to really compare Portuguese India with British India. For example Goa was much smaller than the gigantic British India and thus more manageable, Goa was for a much longer period of time a part of an European Empire and thus more in contact with Europe, Goa had a much larger percentage Christian population which in the last few centuries meant more progressive populations as less Hinduvadi and Islamic fundamentalist crackpot backlashes against traditional modernity. Also the Portuguese mixed in with Goans a lot more and thus Goa was far more Europeanised than British India however Goa was less Europeanised as compared to other Portuguese Empire territories.
    The British on the other hand was dealing with a gigantic population and landmass which was much less Christian. After the mutiny, the British policy was that of minimum interference in Cultural and religious affairs which meant British India was Europeanised even less. Goa was more thoroughly Europeanied which is why British India (which remained more native) was a shithole and even today Goa is the richest state in India even now. The higher Europeanised Christian population also meant the gap in between the rich and poor was much less in Goa.
    From a different post of yours

    The more I learn about Salazar from the Goan perspective, the more he appears to be some kind of Controlled Opposition. There was a serious problem of illegal immigrants flooding from British India into Portuguese India territories from the start of the Portuguese

    Good point. But more I study the Raj, I think there were globalist forces inside the British Empire which dissolved the Raj. The Raj could not even stop the Theosophical Society crackpots from entering India!! They were responsible for stopping positive Westernisation of India and palyed a big part in triggering the Indian Independence movement. And also Hindutva and Buddhist fundamentalism. Why didn’t the British Raj Government of India simply ban them including Anne Besant. Even the Amritsar Incident was accepted by most Indians immediately afterwards, Government using force against a rioting mob who had terrorized Punjab for days. Any government, including the present Indian Government would have used force. History is taught wrong to us, most Indians had accepted the actions by General Dyer. It was the British government including Churchill who went after him. It was only after this that Indians started attacking Geberal Dyer’s actions too. The whole Indian Independence struggle was fake, The Raj was dissolved by forces from inside Britain.
    And if you ask me most anti-colonial movements (except maybe the Mau Mau) were fake. Douglas Reed writes about how America -Wall Street in collusion with forces within the metropoles of these European Empires as well as collusion with the USSR, PRC, DPR Korea and Cuba played a part in destroying European Colonial Empires in Africa.

    India acted like asshole with French India too. Except Chandannagore in Bengal, no other French Indian Territory wanted to join Independent India. All kind of bullying and slimey tactics were used by Indian State to get them into India. Hell even the Socialists of Pondicherry wanted to remain a part of France.

  332. @Malla

    Malla wrote to me:

    The best policy in the long term would still be racial separation and high IQ blacks should help their own nations.

    African-Americans are part of our nation: their ancestors have been in this country longer than many White Americans’ ancestors, and the Black folks are not going to leave.

    Malla also wrote:

    And hopefully White nations would be able to arrest the IQ drop and work towards increasing it.

    The wise approach is the same for Blacks and Whites. For starters, we need to celebrate the fact that doing a good job raising children is a good way to spend a good part of your life. Indeed, it is a much more valuable contribution to society than being a Walmart checkout clerk (or, arguably, a lawyer).

    American women have been sold a bill of goods that “career” is more important than family. That lie has caused enormous human suffering. (For any lurking feminists: I stayed home with our kids and homeschooled them. Yes, guys can do this. But more women than men want to do this.)

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