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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

Memory Holing Morris Dees
by Steve Sailer

September 04, 2019

It’s widely assumed in thriller movies that if ever the truth is allowed to leak out about a powerful institution’s fundamental corruption, then its reputation must come crashing down once and for all.

But in real life, multiple disgraces can have negligible impact on an organization’s reputation in the prestige press as long as it continues to serve its function in furthering The Narrative….

For example, just months after three scandals ripped the Southern Poverty Law Center’s reputation to shreds, the prestige press is once again treating the SPLC as the objective authority on whom you must hate.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. Morris Dees, for the sake of posterity here at UR:

    Not to be confused with Rick Dees

    • Replies: @fish
  2. eah says:

    But in real life, multiple disgraces can have negligible impact on an organization’s reputation in the prestige press as long as it continues to serve its function in furthering The Narrative….

    It may have something to do with the moral imprimatur bestowed upon “The Narrative” — but I could be wrong.

  3. The SPLC is far too useful for scaring people to get abandoned by the Occupation Media.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Walsh2
  4. bomag says:

    Who Gets Immunity From Political Scrutiny is a key question that shapes our future.

    We are under orders to like Google and Facebook, even though their fingers are on the scale of what gets presented to the public.

    We are under orders to like the various pro-immigration, pro-refugee groups, even though they are importing misery.

    Homosexuals are immune; POC; women of proper belief enjoy immunity; the various transgendered; etc etc.

  5. Anon[280] • Disclaimer says:

    There was world before cancellation culture. For instance, did you know that Talking Heads was primarily founded by Chris Franz, the drummer, rather than David Byrne, the vocalist and guitarist? Franz had a girlfriend Tina Weymouth, who he talked into learning the bass and joining the band. David Byrne was against it, saying “I think that women’s role shouldn’t really be in the big world because it is a dangerous place for women.

    Is that were dug up on Twitter today, would it be problematic enough to get Byrne cancelled? Remember, Byrne is especially testy about Republicans playing Talking Heads songs at campaign events, and he sued Florida governor Charlie Crist for using a song in a campaign commercial.

    I have a feeling that Rhode Island School of Design era Byrne was a super awkward virgin who was really uncomfortable around the girlfriend of a bandmate.

  6. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    It is well known that MLK plagiarized much or most of his academic work, and now it appears that the rumors of all his philandering and misogyny are true.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7071713/FBI-tapes-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-40-affairs-laughed-friend-raped-parishioner.html

    If anything, his reputation and myth remain more unimpeachable than ever.

  7. Paul says:

    What matters to the New York Times is not the credibility of its sources but instead whether the sources advance the storyline that the newspaper is peddling. So the SPLC is good enough.

  8. I’m not sure I’m right, but when the SPLC stuff went down, and the Smollett fixer went to Alabama to take of it, I immediately thought it was to safeguard the money and the records. If organizations lean right, they have to be above board. This stinks to high heaven.

    George Clooney gave a million bucks to the SPLC just before this broke, but there was no way that he didn’t know it wasn’t a hit organization. I’d love to know the other ones, too.

    But then again, maybe SPLC is just a satire site, so we can all get good laugh about their hate site maps. I particularly liked story they ran about Hawaiians beating up Whites. I later found out it was a real thing, but the friction was only because the Whites didn’t like Spam with their eggs. Go figure.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  9. Its also about good arguments and status isn’t it? I mean, it’s not only about the megaphone-holders but also about those who oppose them with good reasons, such as social psychologist Jonathan Haidt. Haidt is very concerned about this hate-business taking over the – sigh – liberal public sphere and says, that it is utterly dangerous to let such things happen.

    John Derbyshire wrote last week about Jonathan Haidt’s rather dark new American prospects:

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/something-happened-in-2013-2014-haidt-and-codevilla-on-the-elite-drive-for-civil-war/

  10. El Dato says:
    @Redneck farmer

    I takes the form of an oracle: “Ask a question, get a magically trustful response about who is bad today!”

    Oracles are useful for any crusader looking for action.

    But as old stories tell us, you can get really bitten by actually acting on their word.

    OT:

    Nebojsa Malic writes:

    Blaming Bosnia for ‘alt-right’ and mass shootings is both ignorant and wrong

    Drawing a line between the 1990s events in Bosnia and the recent mass shootings in New Zealand and the US is an inversion of facts on par with the original propaganda about that war, which has actually had disastrous consequences.

    Yet that is precisely what Murtaza Hussain of the Intercept has done in a piece published over the weekend, playing the guilt-by-association game to find a common thread to Anders Breivik’s 2011 rampage, the Christchurch mosque shootings in March this year, and even the El Paso mass shooting in Texas last month.

    I didn’t know about the meme of accusing Serbian cleaning ops as influence to the Alt-Right.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  11. You didn’t end it well, Sailerish Sailer.

    OT: Lesbian tween hackers have taken over Taki and are using the site to promote the climate change hoax.

    And I really can’t concern myself with why people who believe self-serving lies don’t care about the moral standards of those who propagate such lies.

  12. Charon says:
    @eah

    It’s a good point. As even a casual study of history will demonstrate, winning a war entitles you to all the spoils, not least of which is the definition of fact vs fiction forever after.

    TPTB aka TWMNBN are in the driver’s seat and are enjoying a grand old time of generating propaganda in their MSM, day in and day out, year-round.

  13. Kirt says:

    People aren’t even scandalized anymore by scandals, just titillated. The corrupt are merely envied for their opportunities for corruption. And anything which happened the day before yesterday or before that is “ancient history”.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  14. fish says:
    @The Alarmist

    Not to be confused with this guy…..

  15. Tiny Duck says:

    Or maybe the SPLC does good work in spite of Dees being a basic white man

    The fight against whiteness and Christian supremacy is righteous and the People know who is in the right

    Consider that Blacks Asians Latinos Jews homosexuals Muslims and women all disagree with you and think of you as evil.

  16. Way way OT, but we finally have a credible case of a white male hanging a noose on a college campus.

    The suspect, Andrew Smith, is a student at the University of Illinois where the incident took place. Please have a look at his mug shot. Easy to find on the Internet.

    This will be a real test of the value of Intersectional Pokémon points.

    Very curious to hear from iSteve readers: expulsion and jail or memory hole? My bet is on memory hole.

  17. Anon[577] • Disclaimer says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    What the heck is going on here? Andrew M. Smith? Pronouns?

    Majoring in mathematics.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  18. eric says:

    I was at Red Lobster last week and tried pulling up unz.com/isteve on my phone via their WiFi. It was blocked as a Hate Site.

    I can understand why they might have the policy to use some third-party to keep users from using bad sites (eg, porn). I bet some group like the SPLC defines hate for them.

  19. snorlax says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Expulsion, community service, memory hole.

  20. Walsh2 says:
    @Redneck farmer

    The Obama machine, or more specifically the machine that brought us Obama, took over the SPLC. The Metoo allegations against Dees were fairly flimsy, even by Metoo allegation standards. It was an orchestrated hit to get him out and get an Obama acolyte in. Not sure is Tchen is still there, if she isn’t someone of similar ilk has or will replace her. After the Clinton dynasty met its final demise the board had to be cleared and pieces put back in place.

    The global Oligarchy has the American board pretty much set.

    King – Obama
    Queen – Deep State
    Bishop – Traditional Media
    Bishop – Academia
    Knight – Social Media
    Knight – Corporate America
    Rook – Judiciary
    Rook – Hollywood
    Pawns – ADL, SPLC, ANTIFA, BLM, College Students, Gay/Trans activists, the Squad, Open Borders activists, and SJWs.

    The other side of the board consists of 12 checkers.

    • LOL: fish, Redneck farmer
  21. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    In summary, The New York Times ran a dozen articles in August citing the Southern Poverty Law Center as the expert authority on who deserves to be hated.

    SPLC is small potatoes. It is enabled by the enablers, the big potatoes who are far worse. The Jewish-run media are many times worse, and they use the bogeyman of ‘white supremacy’ to shame whites into serving Jewish supremacy that remains veiled by anti-white hysteria.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2019/08/the-woody-allen-fallacy/

  22. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    SPLC is nothing compared to the media that pushed WMD lies and Russia Collusion Hoax.

  23. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:

    treating the SPLC as the objective authority on whom you must hate.

    Great line!

  24. Barnard says:

    The scandals got enough attention that an overwhelming majority of SPLC donors should have heard about them. Beyond the personnel scandals, it has to be a purely emotional reaction that compels someone to give to an organization that is simply putting their donation in an endowment. If they choose to keep giving, I don’t know what more can be done to deter them.

    When I read the Washington Post article covering Dees firing, there were a lot of comments supportive of the organization and some supporting Dees claiming he had noble intentions, but had “lost his way.” The SPLC has always been an easy citation for the press when they want to smear someone, they aren’t going to give that up easily.

  25. Kyle says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyherald.com/amp-article/20190904/news/190909763/

    Andrew Smith, 19, found some rope in the elevator in Allen Hall over the weekend and tied it into a noose… as a sophomore with enough credits to graduate this year and a GPA of 3.79. Smith enrolled at the University of Illinois in fall 2018 and is majoring in math.

    Maybe he/she is an highly male brained autistic type who mindlessly ties little pieces of rope into cool knots that they learned in Boy Scouts.
    Here is a picture of him / her / xir.
    https://www-dailyherald-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w820/s/www.dailyherald.com/storyimage/DA/20190904/news/190909763/AR/0/AR-190909763.jpg&updated=201909040701&MaxW=800&MaxH=800&noborder

  26. @NJ Transit Commuter

    Please have a look at his mug shot. Easy to find on the Internet.

    I checked the Sun-Times, which offered this rich headline as well:

    Jussie Smollett lawyers: Even if actor faked attack, cops didn’t need to investigate it so vigorously

    • Replies: @Jack D
  27. eah says:

    OT

    A really heartwarming story:

    California city tests buzzy campaign idea for income

    Susie Garza has never heard of Yang. But since February, she’s been getting $500 a month from a nonprofit in Stockton, California, as part of an experiment that offers something unusual in presidential politics: a trial run of a campaign promise, highlighting the benefits and challenges in real time. … Garza can spend the money however she wants. She uses $150 of it to pay for her cellphone and another $100 or so to pay off her dog’s veterinarian bills. She spends the rest on her two grandsons now that she can afford to buy them birthday presents online and let them get the big bag of chips at the 7-Eleven. … “I’ve never been able to do that. I thought it was just the coolest thing,” said Garza, who is unemployed and previously was addicted to drugs, …

  28. Mr. Anon says:

    But in real life, multiple disgraces can have negligible impact on an organization’s reputation in the prestige press as long as it continues to serve its function in furthering The Narrative….

    Exhibit A: The FBI

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    , @Jack D
  29. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Although it is literally chutzpah for Smollett (thru his lawyers) to be saying this, they are not wrong. If you or I went to the Chicago police and told them that you had been roughed up late at night by two black youths (nothing stolen, no major injuries) they would have taken your report and filed it and that would have been it, even if they believed you. They would not have spent $130,000 on the investigation – they would not have even spent $130 on it. So much for justice being blind. This is really on them (and on our crazy society) for giving so much attention to celebrities and for classifying every alleged white on black crime as a major “hate crime” or “attempted lynching” while black on white assault is just dog bites man.

    • Disagree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Barnard
    , @Marty
    , @donut
  30. Whiskey says: • Website

    Missing the point Steve. Dees has been memory holed because the Ascendant non Whites plan at best a gulag for White men. Don’t think 75% at least of White women would not applaud that.

    The gulag is the best case. We really need a hot war with China. A hot war and Chen and Pajeet don’t look so hot as our replacement.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  31. I think there are many reasons the media still treat the SPLC as the Gospel truth.

    1. Laziness. The SPLC accuses some group or another of being a hate group. Someone complains when a group which the SPLC called a hate site is quoted by some Trumpster or another. All the good Woke people are up in arms!

    If you look at most online journalism these days, they don’t even bother to hire a copy editor. Much of “journalism” is actually putting together Twitter tweets. If you don’t believe me, look at some Yahoo articles for a while. I mean, journalism is all about getting the most clicks for the least effort.

    So, what are the chances some journalist will take the time to investigate whether what the SPLC calls a hate group really is a hate group, when the journalist is too rushed to even check her grammer?

    2. Herd instinct. Most journalists follow the herd of journalists. It has always been that way. Four major examples:
    In 1960, reporters fell in love with JFK, and they didn’t like Nixon. The pro-JFK media bias is sufficient to explain why JFK was elected president. Journalists who had never met JFK or Nixon followed the herd, and were very pro-JFK and anti-Nixon.
    In 2000, reporters decided Gore was a bore, but W was a very personable fellow who gave them cool frat-boy nicknames! They felt like they were part of the cool frat crowd that ostracized them in HS and college. The pro-Bush and anti-Gore bias was not as strong as the pro-JFK and anti-Nixon bias in 1960, but it was sufficient to get Bush in office.
    What about cheating? The pro-JFK media were not really that interested in investigating possible irregularities in Illinois and Texas, nor was the pro-Bush media particularly interested in investigating possible shenanigans in Florida. So even if the media bias needed help from crooked political operatives, the media were NOT about to expose operatives who supported their guy.

    What about when someone the media hated became president?
    Nixon was elected, and then re-elected in a landslide despite being hated by the media. He was forced out of office. To be fair, he really did stuff bad enough he deserved to be forced out of office. Same with Agnew. Both of them were crooks.
    But JFK, LBJ and HHH were all crooks, as well. The media didn’t care.

    The NY media, especially the NY Times, absolutely HATED Bill Clinton. Why? The NY press adored Mario Cuomo, and Cuomo thought Clinton had insulted him. So the NY media went whole hog against Clinton. Of course Whitewater and Foster and all that were nothing burgers, but the NY media, especially the NY Times, fanned the flames and made sure all were investigated. What did they find? Oral sex in the oval office! Not that JFK ever would have done such a thing. But they loved JFK, and hated Clinton, so they fanned the flames so Clinton would get impeached, although the Senate eventually came to his rescue.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Twodees Partain
  32. Jack D says:

    Article about the Poverty Palace by an ex-staffer:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-reckoning-of-morris-dees-and-the-southern-poverty-law-center

    a highly profitable scam.

    Of course, now that Dees is down it’s easy to kick him. “I never liked those guys anyway”.

    From the article, it appears that Dees hasn’t really been at the helm for a long time now but they were still using his image for fundraising purposes. If our society was just a LEETLE more corrupt, Dees would have literally “jumped” out the window rather than just metaphorically and they could have saved the expense of having to reprint all their brochures.

    As for what Dees’s crime was, even now it’s awfully vague and I literally could not remember what he had been accused of, other than some MeTooish crap and it wasn’t clear if he had actually done anything himself or had “tolerated an atmosphere” of sexism or some such.

  33. Brutus says:
    @eric

    So do not go to Red Lobster and tell the manager, and corporate office, why.

    Brutus

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
  34. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    Now, we know how Palestinians feel. No matter what the Jews do to them, the US only cares about Jews and ignores the plight of Palestinians.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  35. Barnard says:
    @Jack D

    The Chicago PD had no choice to prove it was a hoax because of the political and media pressure they would have faced to find the “criminals” who “assaulted” Smollett if they didn’t prove it. Blaming society is partially accurate, but Smollett could have stopped the expensive investigation at any time with a confession, which would have ended the ongoing costs. He should be forced to repay the city for the entire cost plus pay damages for his attempts to defame them through the process.

  36. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    In 2000, reporters decided Gore was a bore, but W was a very personable fellow who gave them cool frat-boy nicknames! They felt like they were part of the cool frat crowd that ostracized them in HS and college. The pro-Bush and anti-Gore bias was not as strong as the pro-JFK and anti-Nixon bias in 1960, but it was sufficient to get Bush in office.

    Oh, bullshit. The mainstream media has been in the bag for Democrats since FDR. Bush was hard to dislike as a human but the media overcame its qualms about doing so – the Cause is more important than personality. EVERY Republican is Hitler when he is running or in office. The only exception are RINOs or designated losers like McCain – they try to flatter them so that they will stab their “fellow” Republicans in the back even more. They LOVED the Republican Senators who were dithering about voting for Kavanaugh when they thought that there was a chance of turning them.

    The Left (and the MSM – same thing really) only likes (non-RINO) Republicans after they are safely dead or out of office when they can be held up as examples of “good” Republicans as compared to the evil Republicans who are then running for office, so Bush’s stock has gone up in recent years. When he was running he was evil, evil, evil. Those nicknames were condescending and evidence of Bush’s low class, bro-type yahoo personality, unlike the noble and dignified Gore who was going to save the planet (when he wasn’t going for Jeffrey Epstein style massages). Mitt Romney, when running, was the evil dude who strapped his dog to the roof of his car but now he is the soul of moderation compared to Trump. Twenty years from now, Trump will be compared favorably to whatever Republican is then running.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
  37. O/T but relates to several iSteve themes:

    America’s Chicken Industry Accused of Conspiring to Keep Immigrant Wages Down
    By Deena Shanker and Polly Mosendz
    September 3, 2019, 12:25 PM EDT

    • Officials meet at Florida hotel to share data, case claims
    • Filing follows price-fixing complaint that spurred U.S. probe

    Companies producing more than 90% of America’s chicken have conspired to depress wages for a largely immigrant work force in some of the nation’s most dangerous jobs, according to a lawsuit.
    The case filed last week is mostly based on interviews with former employees, and claims the conspiracy among 18 companies, their subsidiaries and affiliates and two consulting firms continues until today. It was filed on behalf of three former workers, but seeks class-action status for hundreds of thousands, many with limited language skills and few other prospects for employment.

    [MORE]

    Since 2009, leaders of the firms’ human resources and compensation departments have held annual secret meetings at a Destin, Florida, hotel to discuss pay and benefits for line and maintenance workers at about 200 plants, according to the complaint in Baltimore federal court. Using consulting agencies as intermediaries, the suit says, they share detailed wage information. Plant managers also cooperate, for example calling each other when one announces an expansion to find out what new positions will pay, it says.

    Chicken producers are getting used to being on the receiving end of litigation. Three years ago, a class-action lawsuit filed by Maplevale Farm, a food distributor, accused them of price fixing enabled by the Indiana-based data company Agri Stats Inc. Lawsuits from consumers, distributors, grocery chains and food companies followed, and this summer the Justice Department intervened. It asked the court to halt proceedings while it pursued its own criminal investigation.

    Big Chicken

    The new litigation targets 18 processors including Tyson Foods Inc., Sanderson Farms Inc., Mar-Jac Poultry Inc., Wayne Farms Inc., Perdue Farms Inc. and Pilgrim’s Pride Corp., their subsidiaries and affiliates, as well as Agri Stats and Pennsylvania consultant Webber, Meng, Sahl and Co. Inc.
    “We do not believe this suit has any merit,” Andrea Staub, a Perdue spokeswoman, said in an email. “Our compensation philosophy is to pay fair and in some cases above average wages.”

    Tyson, Mar-Jac, Wayne and Sanderson declined to comment. The other companies and consultants didn’t reply to requests for comment.

    The suit, which seeks unspecified damages, is about more than money, said the lead plaintiff attorney.

    “These workers are some of the most vulnerable workers in the United States,” George F. Farah, a partner at Handley Farah & Anderson PLLC, a Washington-based firm that pursues cases against corporations on social-justice grounds. “I can’t think of a more important case I’ve pursued in my entire career.”

    Chicken is the country’s most popular and cheapest protein: Americans will eat an estimated 94.3 pounds each in 2019, according to the National Chicken Council, and they will pay only $1.90 a pound. Preparing all that meat is gruesome and hazardous. Poultry workers suffered occupational illnesses at a rate five times higher than other U.S. workers in 2013, according to a 2015 Oxfam report, and 72% reported significant work-related illness or injuries.

    Targeted Population

    Finding people willing to do the job has become a challenge, as a 2018 industry report noted, and tougher immigration enforcement has made that even harder than usual.

    On Aug. 7, federal agents raided seven Mississippi plants, arresting 680 undocumented workers. Under President Donald Trump, who ran on limiting legal immigration and forcibly removing undocumented residents, work-site investigations by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement surged to 6,848 in fiscal 2018 from 1,691 the year before. Trump praised the Mississippi raids as a “good deterrent.”

    The defendants in the new case have employed hundreds of thousands of workers, according to the complaint. A laborer may be exposed to live animals, sharp knives, repetitive motions and a litany of other dangers. Wages average about $11 per hour, keeping employees near or below the poverty line, Oxfam found.

    Most of the country’s chicken comes from a concentrated region in the Southeast. Plants are so near that each company “owns and operates a chicken processing plant that is within 28 miles of a competitor’s processing plant,” according to the suit. That should make the labor market competitive, with workers able to move to the employer that pays best. Instead, the would-be competitors collude, according to the suit.

    “As a pure antitrust matter it looks really strong, like there was a pattern of coordination in shared control over wages,” said Peter Carstensen, a former antitrust lawyer for the Justice Department and a University of Wisconsin law school professor.

    Giving, Taking

    While companies have said they are paying more and offering new benefits and better conditions, the plaintiffs claim that wage increases were offset with changes to other benefits, like higher health-insurance premiums. Further, their economists found that wages at non-poultry food plants were both higher and increased faster than those at the defendants’ plants.

    The scheme began in 2009 or even earlier, according to the filing. Executives in charge of human resources, compensation and benefits would meet at “off the books” meetings in Destin, often around the same time as an annual human-resources seminar held by the U.S. Poultry & Egg Association. The meetings didn’t appear on published schedules, according to the suit.
    The association didn’t respond to request for comment on the case.

    Information was also shared through annual surveys commissioned by a rotation of the largest three processors, the suit says. Webber, Meng, Sahl ran the studies and provided data including average wages for each position on a processing line and the number of people in a given plant that held such a position. Benefit information like insurance premiums, time off and retirement-plan contributions were also included. Data were technically anonymous — numbers replaced company names — but the highly specific information made firms readily identifiable when officials met, the suit says.

    Senior executives of the accused companies chastised rivals “that had deviated — by making unauthorized increases to worker compensation — from agreed-upon wages that had been fixed at prior in-person meetings,” the suit alleges.

    Poultry Nexus

    Information-sharing was also enabled by Agri Stats, according to the suit. The company was accused in the previous suit of playing a central role in fixing prices, an allegation denied by the defendant companies. Agri Stats also collects and distributes wage and compensation data for each category of worker, according to the new filing.

    The anonymous information exchanged each month through Agri Stats is specific enough that it is traceable to specific plants: The companies “used the Agri Stats exchange of current wage data to fix and harmonize the wages,” the suit said. They used the data “to monitor, and confirm that no conspirator deviated from, the wage-fixing conspiracy.”

    The allegations against Agri Stats are essential to the case, said Carstensen, the law professor.
    “The kind of information that Agri Stats is producing for its subscribers, the detailed wage information, raises serious concerns, because it gives everyone involved a basis to restrict and limit how they compete,” Carstensen said.

    Corporate headquarters also instructed plant officials to obtain wage information at competitors, according to the complaint. Human resources staff would regularly speak to discuss pay, raises and benefits.

    In 2017, for example, a Tyson plant in Union City, Tennessee, was planning to expand, and a manager at a nearby Pilgrim’s plant requested future pay rates for the positions, according to the complaint. Another manager at the Pilgrim’s plant called a nearby Perdue facility for its rates. This information and more was then compiled into a document and sent to Pilgrim’s executives at corporate headquarters in Colorado.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-03/biggest-chicken-processors-accused-of-immigrant-wage-plot

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
  38. Marty says:
    @Jack D

    This formulation, “you ain’t got to …” (the lawyers classed it up a bit) is a consistent black trope which gets wheeled out in all sorts of contexts. For example, when I called the parking authority on a black woman who parked in a handicapped spot sans placard, that’s what the driver started yelling when the ticket got written. When a basketball player is whistled for stepping out of bounds while making a great move to the hoop, the ref gets, “why you gotta ….?”

    • Replies: @Jack D
  39. @Jack D

    You know a lot more about right-wing talking points than you do about New York intellectuals.

    For example, New York intellectuals adored Jacob Javits and La Guardia, both Republicans.

    New York intellectuals hate southern whites. They didn’t much like Truman (they loved Henry Wallace and Dewey was a New Yorker like them). They didn’t much care for LBJ, Carter, Clinton and Gore. About the only southern white they liked was Fulbright, who was the son of a newspaper publisher and was the first notable politician to break with LBJ over Vietnam.
    I think Clinton was surprised as to how badly he was treated by the NY media, especially the Times. Clinton was a protege of Fulbright, but Cuomo hated Clinton and the NY media worshiped Cuomo, so that was that.

    The NY media tolerated carpetbaggers, like Winthrop Rockefeller and the Bush family.

    Thing is, NY intellectuals, especially those of the Jewish faith, and southerners hate each other. I’ve lived among southerners and NY intellectuals (my father was a NY intellectual and my mother a southerner). I know what they think of each other. There were times southerners thought I was a NY Jew. That does not make for a happy relationship. I’ve had northeast intellectuals actually stop me and ask me if all hillbillies were inbred mongoloids. I am not joking.

    Try looking at The NY Times columns by Judith Miller from about 2001 through the Bush II invasion of Iraq sometime. Very anti Clinton. Very much beating the drums of Whitewater and whatever the latest conspiracy theory was about Clinton. Later on, she was the main cheerleader for W, including being gung-ho about invading Iraq.

    True, more reporters are pro-Dem than pro-GOP, but sometimes the NY intellectuals’ hatred of white southerners trumps their hatred for Republicans.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @William Badwhite
  40. White people ARE Palestinians; they just haven’t figured it out yet.

  41. @eric

    Same with Target. They allow VDARE, but not Unz.

    VDARE is classified as a hate site by SPLC, so I don’t know what the logic is,

    • Replies: @Jack D
  42. That Guy says:

    So I don’t want to be That Guy, but I will be That Guy.

    The “Prestige Press” is basically the Ashkenazi Press, along with an auxiliary army of sycophantic good-thinkers. That’s the simplest way to describe it. (If someone can come up with a clearer way of parsing it, let me know).

    The Ashkenazi Press needs plausibly gentile organizations, like the SLPC, through which they can pump out anti-White bile. Otherwise, in the age of the internet, gumshoes would dig up the ethnic backgrounds of reporters, and notice a certain pattern. If it weren’t the SLCP, then it would be another org serving as the Plausibly Gentile Frontman. It’s ethnic Three Card Monte, honed in Central Europe over centuries.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @Jack D
  43. syonredux says:

    Off-topic,

    Matthew Yglesias thinks that there’s some kind of correlation between being a Leftist and being an artist:

    I think that for all creative endeavors the correlation between psychological openness and left-wing politics is going to lead to this outcome.

    Dunno. Assembling a list of top-tier Right-Wing culture creators is incredibly easy: Kipling, Edith Wharton, HP Lovecraft, Wagner, TS Eliot, John Ford, Howard Hawks, Jimmy Stewart, Evelyn Waugh, Hawthorne, Edmund Burke, Willa Cather, Barbara Stanwyck, ……

  44. @Brutus

    Well, the looting and burning of southern property isn’t unknown. It was something Sherman bragged about.

    Sherman’s troops would loot and completely destroy just about every place in their wake. They would then offer the slaves a choice: either stay on a recently destroyed plantation as slaves, or be free men in Sherman’s army. That was one of the extremely rare cases in world history where an invading army actually grew in size during the invasion. Contrast that with Napoleon in Russia.

    Yes, Sherman and Sheridan and the like committed war crimes in the South during the Civil War. They were then sent out west, where they committed far worse war crimes. The difference being, Sherman and Sheridan saw southerners as an enemy to be completely destroyed economically. They saw Indians as an enemy to be completely wiped off the planet. They treated Indians worse than Hitler’s army treated Jews.

    My grandfather was an officer in the USMC in the Battle of Okinawa. He told me about FAR worse war crimes committed by Marines in Okinawa than what was in this video. FAR worse.

    My grandfather was very proud of his USMC service, and later had Chesty Puller as his direct CO. At my grandfather’s instructions, the Marine Corps Hymn was played at his funeral.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  45. Jack D says:
    @Marty

    For example, when I called the parking authority on a black woman who parked in a handicapped spot sans placard

    Calling the authorities rather than confronting the woman herself was the right thing to do. Michael Drejka was recently convicted of manslaughter in Florida over just such an incident. He told the black woman that she was parked in a handicapped spot, she called her “man” over, the man pushed Drejka to the ground and Drejka, fearful that he was about to be stomped on by a Gentle Giant, pulled his gun and shot him dead. The video was not favorable to Drejka – after he pulled his (legally carried) pistol the Gentle Giant appeared to be backing away and he shot him anyway.

    In Jussie’s case, I think the “you ain’t got to …” applied more to the necessity of charging Jussie himself with a crime (and the black state’s attorney agreed with him). Jussie seemed (at the time) to be totally down with allowing a major manhunt for the perps who attacked him to be launched, along with the attendant publicity, so “you ain’t got to do no big investigation” was really not on offer at the time.

    Bringin the Jussie saga up to date, not only does he have this civil suit against him, but the producers of his TV show have written his character out of the plot for this season. Even though, like OJ, it appeared at first that he had escaped justice for his crime, in the long run there have been consequences. The statute of limitations for his crimes have not expired either and the threat of Federal (or even revived state) charges is still present also. I’m not sure that the black community is really that interested in defending a gay Jewish fruit even if he is black, so I don’t think he has a lot of protection left at this point.

  46. syonredux says:
    @Brutus

    You mean like Lincoln?

    Rubbish. Compare the US Civil War to any other comparable event between, say, 1789 and 1914, and you’ll swiftly see that it was a very gentlemanly affair. For example, compare Sherman’s March to things like the War in the Vendée or the Cuban War of Independence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_the_Vend%C3%A9e

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_War_of_Independence

    Find me something that Sherman did that compares to the Drownings at Nantes or the Reign of Terror:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

    • Replies: @Jack D
  47. @Mr. Anon

    Does the FBI actually do more good than harm? Should a republic have a secret police force that interferes in the political process?

  48. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Logic has nothing to do with it. Target, Red Lobster, etc. all sub the filtering work out to various commercial providers/low bidders and the providers do a half-assed job of filtering according to whatever arbitrary criteria they and their sub-minimum wage Indian offshore workforce set. So of course the filters are riddled with both false positives and false negatives.

    While most people would agree that screen for pornography in public venues is legitimate, the necessity of filtering “hate sites” (which tend to be right wing – is there such a thing as a Left wing “hate site”?) at all is questionable. In Old America, the feeling was that “sunlight is the best disinfectant” and “hate speech” was thought to fall within the ambit of First Amendment protection. Arguably, KKK Weekly was never sold on the magazine racks of Target but blocking websites is more like jamming radio frequencies, which is something that was never done (and is in fact illegal).

  49. @eah

    Spot on, Matt. Brings to mind a little ditty:
    With wealth it matters not how vile you be
    Man forgives all sin – but poverty.

  50. syonredux says:
    @Brutus

    You mean like Lincoln?

    Rubbish. Compare the US Civil War to any other comparable event between, say, 1789 and 1914, and you’ll swiftly see that it was a very gentlemanly affair. For example, compare Sherman’s March to things like the War in the Vendée or the Cuban War of Independence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_the_Vend%C3%A9e

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_War_of_Independence

    Find me something that Sherman did that compares to the Drownings at Nantes or the Reign of Terror:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drownings_at_Nantes

  51. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    Sherman understood the rules of modern warfare – in order to defeat the enemy it’s not sufficient to just meet his uniformed combatants on the battlefield as if you were having a jousting competition between knights. You need to destroy the enemy’s logistics, his supply lines, his manufacturing base, etc. Every war since then has been conducted on the same basis. Sherman famously received an appeal from the citizens of Atlanta not to burn it and his reply was clear – once the Confederacy offered its unconditional surrender he would be their friend again, but until then it was his job to bring about that surrender as quickly as possible.

    You hear the same sour grapes from the losers (who BTW would not have been nearly as merciful if the tables had been turned) in all subsequent wars – shouldn’t have burned Atlanta, shouldn’t have burned Dresden, shouldn’t have burned Hiroshima, etc. Don’t wage aggressive war or start a rebellion (and don’t wage war and then lose it) and then no one will burn your city.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Mr. Anon
  52. Ol’ Moss Dees has been holing everyone else for years. It’s about time he got holed himself. Even if it’s only memory-holed.

  53. Jack D says:
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s true that the FBI had a bullet proof reputation for a long time (despite having stunk for a long time) but I think that Comey, Strzok, etc. have finally succeeded in damaging it, at least with part of the population. For a long time, it was believed by the average man on the street (even Republicans) that the MSM was an unbiased and nonpartisan purveyor of facts and that Walter Cronkite was sort of the Voice of God and not a human with his own (leftist) political sympathies that colored his presentation. But Dan Rather (among others) really caused the scales to fall away from some people’s eyes and Comey and Strzok may have the same function for the FBI.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  54. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    You hear the same sour grapes from the losers (who BTW would not have been nearly as merciful if the tables had been turned) in all subsequent wars – shouldn’t have burned Atlanta, shouldn’t have burned Dresden, shouldn’t have burned Hiroshima, etc. Don’t

    And you can see the stark difference right there. Compare the body-count at the Burning of Atlanta to the body-counts at Dresden and Hiroshima.

    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  55. Sung to the tune of “The Modesty Blaise Theme”:

    He’s never been a college football fan,
    And yet I’ve heard him cheer with pride.
    He sees the tide of cash keep rolling in;
    That’s when you’ll hear him shout “Roll Tide!”.

    Morris Dees
    Morris Dees

    He is the shadow on your bedroom wall,
    He is the dildo in the night.
    You likely won’t get any sleep at all
    Whenever Morris is in sight.

    Morris Dees
    Morris Dees

    He loves his wife, but still moreso her teenage whelp;
    He’ll make them come, though he might need a dildo’s help.

  56. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    My grandfather was an officer in the USMC in the Battle of Okinawa. He told me about FAR worse war crimes committed by Marines in Okinawa than what was in this video.

    One of the things that the USG succeded in doing in WWII was to dehumanize the “Japs” (always easier to fight if you have no human sympathy for your enemy). If your enemy is subhuman vermin, you can roast him, fry him, bake him – whatever it takes. Even his kids are just baby vermin. That the Japanese themselves behaved in a brutal way did not help. Germans were treated much better because they were racially, religiously and culturally much closer to Americans.

  57. OT:

    Roger Ebert once wrote that a movie (Heaven’s Gate) was so bad that the critics “ran gagging from the theater.”

    Now it turns out that the latest Holocaust-porn/Oscar-masturbation movie is having that exact effect on audiences:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7427197/Audience-members-fight-escape-screening-Holocaust-film-Painted-Bird.html

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  58. J.Ross says:

    There hasn’t been a single consequence for establishment leftists. The FBI refuses to identify a hysterical Stalinist feminist as anything but “interested in violent ideologies.” Before Dees and The Rabbi of Shoulder Pads got kicked out, SPLC was already disgraced for numerous baseless defamatory claims and screwing up a federal lecture gig. Assassination talk, encouragement of riots, and lying about Russia have not gotten anyone into any kind of trouble. Hate hoaxes have never been acknowledged or dealt with by the hyperventilating mainstream media. Lying about Charlottesville and mass shootings has never been punished. Social media censorship is still steamrolling dissent. The only leftists who have been dealt with in any way were ones that were effectively suiciding by cop.
    If you want to murder your wife, make sure you’re wearing a Che shirt.

  59. J.Ross says:
    @Stan Adams

    Kosinski’s life was saved by Polish peasants hiding him and he repaid them with a horror-sexploitation grindhouse pulp where they are the bad guys.
    Painted Bird was undiscussed for a while because it was already exposed as totally made up. The fact that it is being made into a movie, no doubt because of some “poetic truth” contained in the imagery, proves that haShoah is license to lie.

  60. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I think Clinton was surprised as to how badly he was treated by the NY media,

    He must have been even more surprised then when his wife carpet bagged into the state and they supported her Senate candidacy whole hog. Oops, shouldn’t mention hog and Hillary in the same sentence.

    Cuomo’s hate everyone not named Cuomo. Vendetta is a genetic thing with Southern Italians. He hates his fellow “Italian” DeBlasio more than he hates Trump. But the NYTimes will always prefer a Democrat to a REAL Republican. “Republicans” in NY such as Bloomberg (and for that matter Trump) are not really Republicans at all – they tend to run on the Republican ticket because for some political reason they are blocked from running on the Democrat line but politically they are at best moderate Democrats (while “real” Democrats in NY are extreme leftists like Occasional Cortex).

  61. @Paleo Liberal

    You know a lot more about right-wing talking points than you do about New York intellectuals

    You know a lot more about hazy “I remember whens” than you do about what is actually happening, or has happened for that matter. Recall when you absurdly argued that liberals “led the fight” against communism? Then you cited Scoop Jackson – who could be called many things but not “liberal”.

    Thing is, NY intellectuals, especially those of the Jewish faith, and southerners hate each other.

    Not really. NY intellectuals, especially Jews, may hate Southerners but the hate is not reciprocated. To the extent the average Southerner has an opinion on Jews at all, it is likely to be positive.

    It is true that many New Yorker “intellectuals” are viewed as pointy-headed dorks that can churn out word salad but would put their eye out if they picked up a screwdriver, but not much time is spent thinking about them and its definitely not “hate”.

  62. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    I don’t believe this (that words are magic). What “dehumanizing” propaganda language tricks preceded these same kids torturing animals or beating schoolmates back home? These are kids, in a war without mercy against a treacherous foe, a foe who started the fight and proudly covered himself in atrocity, well before embedded reporting and viral video. Exactly what is accomplished by magic words that would not happen anyway? What language tricks are African child soldiers using now?
    This is a lie to enable censorship, not a master key to the human psyche. On 4chan years ago there was an experiment with this idea. Black behavior was discussed, but always taking care to use respectful or honorific euphemisms for the “African American gentlemen.” They still came off as scum because of their actions and the content of their character.

  63. @Brutus

    Or do both of these things: 1) Tell the manager at Red Lobster (or wherever) that they have lost your business in perpetuity by falsely advertising that their wifi is free (except when you wish to access corporately-defined BadThink), and if you feel strongly enough about it, register your sentiments with corporate headquarters; 2) Use the 4g or 5g provided by your phone/internet provider to access the Forbidden Website while you are there, and fuck ’em. Don’t be a skinflint when your right to access free speech is impeded, otherwise They win by default.

    Priciples and practicality can go hand in hand.

  64. Jack D says:
    @That Guy

    It’s ethnic Three Card Monte, honed in Central Europe over centuries.

    What organization(s) in Central Europe played the role of the SPLC? Did the Jews of Central Europe control the popular press in the same way that the (literally baptized) “Jews” Sulzberger, Graham, etc. allegedly control the American press? Whatever is going on here, it doesn’t much resemble Central Europe in any way shape or form. America is the REAL Paradisus Judaeorum and Jews here are accepted (except by a few) in a way unlike their always somewhat precarious position in Europe where they were always one blood libel away from a pogrom.

    Accepted to the extent that America is killing the Jews with kindness. Social exclusion was remarkably effective in Europe. My daughter’s DNA test came back 99% Ashkenazi (1% E. European) after 1,000 years in Poland. A hundred years from now, except for the ultra-Orthodox, American “Jews” will be like American Indians are now, like the Sulzbergers are now, with 1/8th Jewish blood tops.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  65. @Jack D

    A couple of key differences as it pertains to how American troops treated Germans vs Japanese.

    Germans would surrender when they knew continuing to fight was hopeless. This was viewed (correctly in my opinion) as people behaving rationally.

    The Japanese for the most part insisted on fighting to the death and would do all sorts of things to take as many Americans as possible with them – booby traps, pretend to be dead then open fire, etc. Americans quickly learned that they wanted to fight to the death, so lets help them get there and while at it, make sure they’re good and dead. There is lots of footage of Marines shooting Japanese corpses in the head in the aftermath of battles, just to be sure.

    Another huge difference was the treatment of American prisoners. The Bataan Death March and other atrocities (e.g. the treatment of those surrendering at Wake Island) were well known. The Germans for the most part were pretty humane to surrendered combatants (at least to Americans, I suspect Russians would tell a different story). A friend of mine’s father was an enlisted crew member on a bomber that was shot down in 1943. He spent the rest of the war in a “Luft Stalag” (for some reason the Germans kept Allied air crews in different POW camps than they did infantry, etc). He said it wasn’t pleasant in the sense that being in jail is not pleasant, but they were treated fine – the food was edible, they were allowed a modicum of exercise, access to medical care, etc. The details of those sorts of things would make their way through the services pretty quickly. “What comes around goes around” applies.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Charon
  66. @Jack D

    I had an interesting sociology class back in college.
    Supposedly, one of the things that keeps a community strong is a certain amount of outside persecution. Too much, and the community is destroyed. Too little, and the community assimilates into the general population.

    There was a long period of time when the Jews of Eastern Europe had just the right amount of persecution. It sounds callous, but it is true. Less persecution would have been better for the individual Jews, but would destroy the community. A Spanish Inquisition level of persecution destroyed the community in Spain. The Holocaust destroyed the community in Eastern Europe. For example, my sister-in-law is E European Jewish, and not one member of the family survived the Holocaust. She, on the other hand, married a goy who at least converted.

    • Replies: @Hopscotch
  67. @eric

    I was at Red Lobster last week and tried pulling up unz.com/isteve on my phone via their WiFi. It was blocked as a Hate Site.

    Well, it is Red Lobster after all.

  68. J.Ross says:

    OT Why the po po gotta enforce the law and all that?
    Jussie Smollett lawyers: Even if actor faked attack, cops didn’t need to investigate it so vigorously
    SEPTEMBER 4, 2019
    https://www.chicagosportsbreakingnews.com/2019/09/04/jussie-smollett-lawyers-even-if-actor-faked-attack-cops-didnt-need-to-investigate-it-so-vigorously/

    This look real although the prank tell “sneed” appears prominently.

  69. donut says:
    @Jack D

    ” and for classifying every alleged white on black crime as a major “hate crime” or “attempted lynching” while black on white assault is just dog bites man.”
    Hmm that reminds me of something I just can’t remember oh well it’ll come to me .

  70. Jack D says:
    @William Badwhite

    The purpose of the Geneva Conventions is not to be humanitarian to the enemy but to encourage reciprocal treatment. The US scrupulously (perhaps TOO scrupulously) observed the Geneva Conventions wrt German prisoners (after the war a lot of them had had such a grand time that they wanted to immigrate) and to some extent this had the desired effect and the Germans (mostly if not in all cases) treated American (and British) prisoners reasonably well or as reasonably as their Nazi ideology would permit. It didn’t hurt that the Germans actually kind of liked the Americans and even the British.

    For some reason, the Germans decided that the Luftwaffe would run the camps for airmen, the army would run the camps for infantry, etc. In German fashion, everything was very well thought out and organized according to district, rank, service, etc.

    Russian prisoners of the Germans OTOH were treated similarly to Jews. 3.5 million died. A few survived only because at some point in the war the Germans decided that they wanted to use them as slave labor where they could die eventually of natural causes (malnutrition, exhaustion) rather than be immediately executed.

  71. Dees was on surprisingly good terms with Federal snitch and current death row inmate Glenn “The Traitor” Miller.

    Even though he had just defeated Miller in a lawsuit and Miller had “threatened” to murder Dees, Dees asked for and received a ride to the airport from Miller.

    Who knows what information Miller was giving Dees?

  72. Charon says:
    @syonredux

    Yes, modern warfare with tanks and nukes tends to kill more than 1860s era with horses and muskets. Did that really need explaining?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  73. Altai says:

    OT: Michael Shannon, a man who has craved out an interesting niche for himself as a totemic angry reactionary WASP/Kryptonian has a message for Trump voters.

    “Michael Shannon Tells Trump Supporters It’s Their Time to Die Now”
    https://www.vulture.com/2016/11/michael-shannon-is-on-an-anti-trump-rage-tour.html

    Much like with Brexit, there is a belief that wrong-think is a state acquired by environmental spoiling that only the over 70s lived to experience.

    Pretty angry energy anyway, maybe he isn’t doing as much acting as we think. Do they still not understand that all those voters in Penn and Michigan would go right back to voting Democrat if only they’d let up on the agenda to destroy them? They were certainly never going to vote Republican after Trump, but now…

  74. J.Ross says:
    @South Texas Guy

    SPLC identified a guy (1) in Michigan who had published a paper newsletter (2) and got into blogging (3). They counted him as four separate hate groups; this is a regular practice of theirs.

  75. Charon says:
    @William Badwhite

    Two percent of American POWs in German captivity perished, compared to nearly half in Japanese captivity. Two percent! About what would be expected from injury, sickness. But don’t try to tell jack that the Germans were human, because some of them apparently killed jews during wartime.

  76. Kronos says:
    @Kirt

    Seemed like a whole lot of PR crisis firms were activated after the Epstein story was published. Is PR just getting better at managing these kind of bombshells?

  77. Kronos says:
    @Jack D

    In the “Gulag Archipelago” the Russians were treated the worst on both sides. The Soviets and those who joined the Germans.

  78. more like memory holing Jeffrey Esptein.

  79. @Tiny Duck

    Yeah, well, you should know that yo’ mama hates you and wants you to die.

    So, there.

  80. @Paleo Liberal

    “In 2000, reporters decided Gore was a bore, but W was a very personable fellow who gave them cool frat-boy nicknames! ”

    Maybe that happened in the bizarro world you inhabit, but in the real world, that’s an obvious lie.

  81. @Jack D

    ” Bush was hard to dislike as a human ”

    I never had any trouble disliking him, but otherwise I agree with much of what you posted.

  82. Neoconned says:
    @Whiskey

    The only problem with a hot war with a WMD club member like Xi and China is of course MAD and said radioactive winter fallout. It would mean were all f***ed.

    Then again as you once postulated…..our nuke arsenal hasn’t really been tested since the l980s or 1990s so how do we know if they even work….

  83. @Jack D

    Russian prisoners of the Germans OTOH were treated similarly to Jews. 3.5 million died. A few survived only because at some point in the war the Germans decided that they wanted to use them as slave labor where they could die eventually of natural causes (malnutrition, exhaustion) rather than be immediately executed.

    Just as I said above (word of how the Japanese treated Americans traveled quickly) I suppose the same thing applied to the Germans. Towards the very end of the war in Europe when it was obvious to all but a few that defeat was near, German soldiers often went to great lengths (including desertion which could have them executed) to surrender to Americans or British rather than Russians. They knew that what comes around goes around.

  84. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    According to Rudolf Hoess, Zyklon B was tested on Soviet POWs.

    How the Germans thought of the two and dealt with them was different, though. Jews, as I’ve mentioned before, were to be dealt with immediately mainly because he thought they’d sabotage everything if left alive for too long and just deporting them wasn’t an option anymore. Hence, Einsatzgruppen squads needed to be allocated. They were active, malicious threats. Soviet POWs were useless, pseudo-Asiatic subhuman mouths who’d waste calories that the Germans “couldn’t” spare food on-and shouldn’t be sparing other resources on, presumably. So, rather than being shot, they were stuck in open encampments and left to starve, for the most part. The Hunger Plan had to be enacted from the get-go according to Berlin’s calculations if the Wehrmacht was to be fed, so where better to start with prisoners that you already had confined and could easily deprive of calories-and according to Nazi ideology, were incapable of doing anything without the Georgian BDSM master or some Jew politruk holding a whip behind them?

    There was no point in wasting bullets on them, unless there were commissars or GPU men or Jews or something else that was threatening enough to need one.

    That, and there was a Machiavellian co-motive: Hitler felt that if he exterminated Soviet POWs, German soldiers would be more likely to prefer a quick death in battle than taking their chances with the vengeful Russians. He was correct. Hitler thought similarly when it came to partisan warfare, punishment battalions, and stand-or-die orders. Put bluntly, in Russia, the man’s true nature could finally let itself fully loose and he could go pursue nothing but final solutions. No wonder he was satisfied with what was in every way *his* war.

    (Hitler changed gears in the winter of 1941-1942 to forced labor for reasons of necessity. Hundreds of thousands would proceed to die over the rest of the war for the reasons you’d expect. But what astonished me about the Soviet POWs was that by far the overwhelming majority of the deaths occurred within a 6 month window in 1941-nearly 3 million of the 3.5 million who’d die over the course of the war. I’d be surprised if many of them even made it to occupied Poland, let alone Germany. The Holocaust went on for longer: Auschwitz didn’t even reach peak operations until 1944 when the Hungarian Jews arrived.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. Hopscotch says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    The myth of Jewish persecution is an undercurrent throughout the humanities and social sciences, because the fields are led by Jewish intellectuals.

    But ultimately, like all myths, the idea of peculiar Jewish persecution does not hold up to the historical record. Unless, we believe the Jews murdered in pogroms, were somehow different than the Huguenots mass-drowned by Catholics, or the Catholics murdered by German Protestants, or the Poles who were murdered by Germans and Russians, or the Roma were persecuted by all Europeans. Last time I checked, dead is dead.

    And somehow, Jewish historians are eager to talk about the 6million Holocaust dead (inflated with about 1M Eastern Front civilian casualties), but not so eager to talk about the comparable number of Ukrainians snuffed out by Stalin, less than a decade earlier, with no war to inflate the numbers. I wonder why.

    The dual, seemingly contradictory myth combo of persecution, while simultaneously, being divinely-chosen, played an important role in Jewish history: it was useful for indoctrinating their children. Pretty much all separatist ethnicities and cults do the same. But as it turns out, pre-nation state Europe, much like Bronze Age levant, was a brutal place, with no one group having a peculiar monopoly on suffering, despite each group indoctrinating their children otherwise.

  86. Corvinus says:

    “For example, just months after three scandals ripped the Southern Poverty Law Center’s reputation to shreds…”

    According to Who/Whom?

  87. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    I agree with what you say. Starving to death must have been even worse than execution.

    The Hungarian Jews had been protected from deportation to Auschwitz by the Horthy government – they had their own anti-Semitic laws but were for the most part not murderous. Up to March of 1944, when the German tanks rolled in, the Jewish community of Hungary was largely intact (while the Holocaust was largely complete elsewhere). But more than half of them would die in the next 12 months. It’s heartbreaking because liberation was only months away.

  88. @Jack D

    I never could quite understand why Germans captured during WWII in Europe and North Africa were transported to the United States as POWs. I suspect the UBoat captains knew which ships the Germans were on. Here they were indeed treated most humanely with plentiful food and medical care After the war many opted to remain in the States and were permitted to do so.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @donvonburg
  89. syonredux says:
    @Charon

    Yes, modern warfare with tanks and nukes tends to kill more than 1860s era with horses and muskets. Did that really need explaining?

    I’m talking about massacres, the wholesale slaughter of defenseless populations. We saw that in WW2 (Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, etc). And we also saw plenty of that kind of thing in pre-20th century warfare:

    The Sack of Magdeburg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Magdeburg

    The Reign of Terror

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

    The Drownings at Nantes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drownings_at_Nantes

    Find me massacres/atrocities on that scale in the US Civil War.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  90. Sean says:

    A surprising number of Evangelicals are on their second marriage or married to someone who is. Pompeo and Pence for example

    I don’t think the NYT trusts the SPLC, but they are reliable source that never let any story down by not coming up with the necessary quote.

    OT: Epstein the clever con man who caused the world financial crisis by being a trusting idiot

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-lost-usd80-million-in-hedge-fund-bet-gone-bad.html

  91. @syonredux

    Compare the body-count at the Burning of Atlanta to the body-counts at Dresden and Hiroshima.

    Or to the body count in Atlanta today.

    https://spotcrime.com/ga/atlanta

    • Replies: @syonredux
  92. @PV van der Byl

    Chickens are rotting in the fields!

  93. syonredux says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Compare the body-count at the Burning of Atlanta to the body-counts at Dresden and Hiroshima.

    Or to the body count in Atlanta today.

    https://spotcrime.com/ga/atlanta

    Indeed. Blacks are the ultimate war crime:

  94. @Jack D

    One of the things that the USG succeded in doing in WWII was to dehumanize the “Japs”

    The Bataan Death March dehumanized the Japanese. The USG just transmitted the deeds they did. The Japanese got off easy. Without the atomic bombs there would have been no more than 20% of the population that survived in Japan. It might have been less than 10%. That is why the Japanese Emperor favored the path they took.

    We did not hunt down the Japanese war criminals in the same way we hunted down the Germans. You know this. The Germans were brought to justice, for the most part. Most of the Japanese were not. See the case of Louis Zamperini. The Japanese sadist who tortured him lived out his life in peace.

    Most of the time you are coherent and perspicacious Jack. Once in awhile you seem like you are completely detached from the world we live in. Come back Jack. Step back from the abyss and rejoin us.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  95. nebulafox says:
    @Simply Simon

    >I never could quite understand why Germans captured during WWII in Europe and North Africa were transported to the United States as POWs.

    Potential sabotage reasons, but by 1944, the average front-line soldier knew the war was lost, so it was getting a bit silly.

    >After the war many opted to remain in the States and were permitted to do so.

    Suppose you are some late teenage or 20-something conscript who came from east of the Oder-Neisse. You have no home to go back to. Your home is now part of Poland or the USSR. You probably have no idea where your family is, assuming that they are alive. Your education, your development, your life was completely interrupted by the war. You have no wife, no children depending on you. You know that even if you somehow manage to escape being sent to a Siberian labor camp and manage to slip into what is now Germany, you face no prospects, employment wise. How will you eat? What future will you have in the bombed out ruins. In this country, by contrast, jobs aren’t lacking… and maybe on a more personal level, this is a chance at a total fresh slate. You can literally reinvent yourself.

    So your decision is simple: ignore the nonsense you are being told about how everything is going to be fine and you just need to sit tight, escape, and try make a new life for yourself in a continent unscratched by WWII. A totally fresh, new start in this romantic, cool country for a kid who knows nothing but war, deprivation, and dictatorship. Or don’t, get sent back, and try your luck with that.

    Probably the easiest decision of your life.

  96. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    You hear the same sour grapes from the losers (who BTW would not have been nearly as merciful if the tables had been turned) in all subsequent wars –

    Especially during Torah readings on the High Holidays.

    Don’t wage aggressive war or start a rebellion (and don’t wage war and then lose it) and then no one will burn your city.

    What do you mean? Won’t aggressors still burn down your city?

    Anyway, your argument ultimately amounts to saying that murdering innocents is alright as long as it’s your side that’s doing it.

  97. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    It’s true that the FBI had a bullet proof reputation for a long time (despite having stunk for a long time) but I think that Comey, Strzok, etc. have finally succeeded in damaging it, at least with part of the population.

    One would have hoped that Hoover would have done that. How anyone could run an agency like the FBI for almost a half a century and not be universally perceived as obviously corrupt is beyond me. People were more trusing of Government back then.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  98. @Tiny Duck

    Or maybe the SPLC does good work in spite of Dees being a basic white man

    Consider that Blacks Asians Latinos Jews homosexuals Muslims and women all disagree with you and think of you as evil.

    What a one-trick pony.
    I love one-trick ponies…but not this one.

  99. J.Ross says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Hoover did a lot of objectively brilliant things (the establishment of a central police crime lab that shared its results with local departments) and his corruption was either irrelevant (homosexuality) or logical and maybe even pragmatic (keeping tabs on every swamp denizen). Comey is a dishonest idiot who fell up and never had a clean accomplishment in his life. Strzok should hang, and be left hanging, in front of a federal workplace.

  100. @Simply Simon

    What was a U boat skipper going to do even if he knew? Torpedo the ship and drown everyone?
    There might have been thousands of POWs on the ship. Even if they made it off how was he getting them home?

    By that time, the happy hunting days were over and any POW ship would have been in a heavy convoy and an attack would have been suicide. Plus, what no one then knew, Allied forces were decoding all U boat radio traffic and so while the Allies famously didn’t act sometimes to keep the Germans from figuring it out, high priority or security shipping was well ordered about to avoid U boats and those boats hot on their trail almost certainly sunk.

    I am, so far as I know, of 100 percent German ethnicity but the last ancestor of mine to leave what is now or was under Hitler Germany, left well before Germany was a united country. My ancestors served in the United States military since the War of 1812. No one in my family has any use for Hitler or National Socialism, an ideology that killed more Germans than Jews (it killed even more Russians, though) and resulted in enormous long term damage not only to Germany and the United States but the entire Western World.

    Although it did kill a lot of Jews, the Hoffjuden, the leaders of mainstream Judaism, suffered very few losses. The “little Jews”, ordinary Jews with little political influence or power, paid the price. And it gave Jews the state of Israel. Today, the little Jews yap in favor of multiculturalism, in favor of gun control, in favor of importing Jew hating Muslims and NS-sympathetic Hindus by the millions. Most of my family thinks like the average reasonably smart outsider: “They didn’t learn a G_d-damned thing”.

    Jews are a famously stiff-necked people, but the real issue is that they are led by leaders with an ideology. To them the individual Jew is not that important. The Jewish leaders were okay with the executions of the Rosenbergs, who were doing what the overall strategy required, they were dumb enough to get caught and unlucky enough to have a David Greenglass in the family. Judge Irving Kaufman (who also famously, and correctly, ruled that ‘Irving Berlin does not own iambic pentameter’) and Roy Cohn were obviously Jews, and so the cattle were shown that, well, Jews were patriotic Americans first and foremost. Later on generations of Jews and liberals generally kvetched about the injustice of it, but it was over and done with then.

    But I, despite having no use for National Socialism or Hitler, do feel a certain empathy for the U-boat crews, very few of which were Party members and many of whom were among the least accepting of Party doctrine in all of the German military. That was, for many in fact, the reason they chose the pig boats, smelly, hot, grimy, dangerous even in the best of times, over other options.

    Their survival rate was very low. Most are now on “eternal patrol”, as submariners say. Of the few survivors very few remain, a few in Germany, a few here, a few in South America. They did their duty knowing they very probably were not coming home.

    Looking back on it you’d think the Germans would have figured out their crypto had been compromised, but they never did. In a way maybe it was a blessing-against the willingness of Russians to die and the ability of American industry to crank out serviceable, rarely superb but usually fairly decent, war materiel in nearly infinite supply Germany would never have won.

    Who won World War Two? The international banking elite, and the willful wreckers of Western civilization. Neither of which is exactly synonymous with Jews, but in both cases there is a lot of overlap.

  101. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Most of the time you are coherent and perspicacious Jack. Once in awhile you seem like you are completely detached from the world we live in.

    One presumes you’ve noticed the pattern by now. Do you need a hint?

  102. @Charon

    …is feeding your detractors with easy arguments to keep bashing you into submission, and that’s exactly what you’re doing here.

    Everything humans do is human, from being generous and showing mercy to being cruel and committing murders and mass murders. By snarkily downgrading the fate of Jews in WW2 to some “apparent killing during wartime” you only serve the purpose of those who control the Narrative. Unless you think the reason Jewish populations throughout Europe disappearing is because they all immigrated to Mars or something.

  103. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Germans particularly the Luftwaffe treated POWs as well as could be expected. The Japanese were brutal.

    That probably had something to do with it.

  104. @Anon

    Quite apart from the tranny affect, that’s a very old 19.

  105. @El Dato

    Yet no one seems to worry about the links between Bosnian Islamist volunteer fighters and Al Qaeda/ISIS, although to be fair a lot of those people had already been blooded at US taxpayer expense in Afghanistan.

  106. Regarding the MSM’s penchant for quietly removing/shoving public figures that have embarrassed themselves in the eyes of the Narrative, Liberal Order, etc for one reason or another, in due time, won’t the same thing be said regarding Jeffery Epstein?

    “Memory Holing Jeffery Epstein”.

  107. JMcG says:
    @syonredux

    Famously, there was only one civilian casualty at Gettysburg. An accidental death.

  108. nymom says:
    @Charon

    To play devil’s advocate here we know more about nutrition now then we knew than and certain body types do require more food than others…Prisoners of war in Japan were fed the exact same diet as Japanese soldiers; however, Japanese soldiers could live off that diet while Westerners slowly starved from it; while also becoming so weakened they died from other diseases.

    I believe I read that one of the Generals who was executed for war crimes might have been spared the death penalty if we had known then what we know now regarding food requirements for different body types…

    You will have to look up this info yourself as I am not that good at sources but believe I read this in a book about WWII, Pacific theater as they call it…my older brother was a WWII buff and had various books on the subject always scattered about.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  109. @nymom

    Prisoners of war in Japan were fed the exact same diet as Japanese soldiers

    According to every source I have read, this is at extreme variance from the facts.

    Gavan Dawes’ account is particularly harrowing and readable; I recommend it highly.

    https://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Japanese-POWs-World-Pacific/dp/0688143709

  110. Yngvar says:
    @Jack D

    The Soviet Union had not ratified the Geneva Conventions so their soldiers wasn’t under its – supposed – protection. After the war no German official was prosecuted for abuse of Soviet POWs for this reason.

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