The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Running the Option
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

iSteve commenter Andrew M suggests in response to Jonathan Kay’s valuable analysis of Super-Spreader Events in Quillette:

The common thread between all these SSEs is “events you would still attend even if you weren’t feeling great”.

Going to a wedding or funeral? Pop a couple of Tylenol and enjoy seeing the extended family. Going on holiday with non-refundable flights booked months in advance? You’re not going to cancel that. If this had hit later in the year, graduation ceremonies would be another huge SSE.

By contrast, going to the movies is very easy to cancel. Driving holidays or one-day breaks (local theme parks) you’re more likely to cancel. A restaurant meal with friends is easily rescheduled.

In the past, I seem to recall airlines offered free cancellation or rescheduling. Maybe that needs to come back, even if it pushes up ticket prices.

A friend suggests that in the future airlines should allow you to back out of a ticket if you feel ill all the way up to the time of boarding in return for a voucher.

 
Hide 68 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. A friend suggests that in the future airlines should allow you to back out of a ticket if you feel ill all the way up to the time of boarding in return for a voucher.

    Kudos

  2. It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Dave Pinsen

    That should also apply to train travel, public transit like subways, any sort of large public or commercial gatherings like ball games, malls, stores, no? Regulate them with price controls that make them prohibitively expensive for ordinary middle class people to consume more than rarely. Plane travel, shopping centers, pro ball games, concerts, etc. should be reserved for the wealthy who can afford private versions of them or afford the regulated higher prices.

    This is actually similar to the policy agenda of globalist "sustainable development" and "green" projects. The aim is to impose regulation and raise prices so that many things are no longer affordable to a broad middle class and are only accessible to the wealthy and connected government elites. A component to these projects was to promote public transit and higher density, so that people could still get around after they would be unable to afford their own cars and plane travel due to price controls and regulations, but this lockdown is showing that those are risky too and unnecessary, and that it's better to just have people deliver necessities.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Dave Pinsen


    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.
     
    So we go back to expensive flights to those few places the CAB decided made sense to them to allow flights to?

    Re-regulate them...
     
    For the benefit of the big guys? They were quite cozy under the old system. Nobody fought it repealing it more fiercely. Especially Juan T Trippe of Pan Am.

    ...let airlines compete on amenities.
     
    Nobody cares about "amenities" for a three-hour flight. The few attempts at all-first-class airlines bombed.

    You sound like that Labour leader who pined for WWII, or Russians who miss Uncle Joe.

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Dave Pinsen

    Say an airplane has 50 rows with 6 seats across in each row for a capacity of 300. Which distanced seating plan would make you more comfortable:

    A. Skipping every row (P for Passenger, X for blocked off)

    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP

    For 2/3 capacity

    B.
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX

    For 50% capacity

    C.
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX

    for 50% capacity

    D.
    PXX PXX
    XPX XPX
    XXP XXP

    for 33% capacity.

    Or some other clever plan?

    By the way, it sounds like a huge question we need an answer to is the risk of infection in which everybody seated is facing the same direction (e.g., airplanes, movie theaters, sports events, school buses, barber chairs) as opposed to people facing each other (restaurants, to some extent subways, etc.). My guess is that uni-directional facing is somewhat less risky than facing together or in semi-random directions like a NYC subway.

    If so, the next question is what is more risky in a unidirectional facing situation: side to side transmission or back to front transmission? E.g., would you rather have an empty seat directly behind you or to the side of you?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anon

    , @Muggles
    @Dave Pinsen

    The problem with re-regulating airfares (cartels) to drive prices up to make them "better" only works for those who can afford the new higher fares.

    I am old enough to remember how expensive air travel, even domestically, used to be relative to other costs.

    So what did many people do back then? Myself included. Took intercity buses. Now mostly gone.

    However in large cities or in cities with high travel needs in between, there are now frequent and fairly cheap buses. They are slow but depending on airports, not that much slower. However most (other than some luxury lines) are quite crowded. Full of poor people, many immigrants, many of whom are "undocumented" depending on where you live. In Texas there are special bus lines who specifically market cheap fares for Hispanic travelers. Quite "diverse" and low income mostly.

    As a young teen my brother and I took a 1000 mile round trip from the NW to New Mexico and back. Quite an adventure. But for longer distances, few want to travel 18-30 hours on crowded buses. Even 60 years ago, bus stations weren't for the faint of heart. Now they are homeless magnets.

    Is that the "high fare" but nicer air travel you are advocating? Pure elitism. And personally I hate the cheapo flights full of gimme cap wearing morons myself. TSA too. But I'm not taking the bus.

    , @Kaz
    @Dave Pinsen

    What? This option already exists..

    Just buy first class tickets!

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Dave Pinsen

    Talk about throwing the baby about with the bathwater.

    If you want more comfort, buy first class. If the issue is proles at the airport, why not just say it?

  3. OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.

    • Thanks: epebble
    • Replies: @peterike
    @Twinkie


    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.
     
    What, are we supposed to be upset by this?
    , @Neil Templeton
    @Twinkie

    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?

    Replies: @eD, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @The Alarmist
    @Twinkie

    My new pack of KN-95 masks just arrived ... the Chinese writing says nothing about prison labour, but I'll take a moment to pray for the poor soul who crafted mine and hope she or he didn't spit into or otherwise sabotage them.

    , @BenKenobi
    @Twinkie

    Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Twinkie


    In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
     
    As a person who moved from Manhattan to Hong Kong in the 1990s, that really stands out. More than ten thousand people have died in New York City from Covid-19.

    The two cities are very similar, in living arrangements, density of population and use of public transportation and in being an open, international city. Hong Kong, despite recent headlines, is no mainland Communist China, in its civic culture, municipal administration, or the temperament of its citizens.

    Perhaps LastRealCalvinist, who actually lives there, would care to comment.
  4. Taking sick leave or working from home when sick should also be made compulsory. Too many people come to work when they are obviously infectious (blowing nose, coughing, sneezing, complaining of fever …)

    • Replies: @Farenheit
    @epebble

    This coming to work sick thing is partly caused by the trend to lump sick time and vacation time together as "paid time off"..or PTO in corporate-speak.

    It incentivises employees to dose up and crawl into work so they can maximize their vacation time.
    It may be time to go back to the old system.

    Replies: @AnonAnon

  5. Can the airlines afford to do that? How many years will it be before airlines reach their pre Wuhan Flu passenger levels? The industry keeps pushing the opposite direction, fees for every single stage of the transaction, checking a bag, getting an assigned seat, wanting to change your flight, etc. The airlines would have to have this forced on them.

    The bigger question is if anyone is willing to put a hard check on the trial lawyers. A number of businesses would reopen tomorrow if they were given immunity from customers suing them for contracting the virus at their establishment.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    @Barnard

    This. Literally no one cares what the CDC says, it’s irrelevant. The ONLY thing ANYONE who matters cares about it “where does my responsibility end? If a worker/customer gets COVID, is that on me?” Until that’s understood, everything will be on permanent freeze

    , @Anonymous
    @Barnard

    Historically the donkeys would rather die than inconvenience twial wawyers-because they contribute a lot of money-and the gop likes to thunder and rail against them while not really wanting to bell the cat because half of them are dirt bag lawyers too and they don't want the heat even if they are too dumb to be trial studs themselves.


    But things change at some point.

  6. @Twinkie
    OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.
     

    Replies: @peterike, @Neil Templeton, @The Alarmist, @BenKenobi, @PiltdownMan

    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    What, are we supposed to be upset by this?

  7. @Twinkie
    OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.
     

    Replies: @peterike, @Neil Templeton, @The Alarmist, @BenKenobi, @PiltdownMan

    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?

    • Replies: @eD
    @Neil Templeton

    "Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?"

    We don't have to allow them to export their products into this country.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Neil Templeton


    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?
     
    Speaking to Twinkie’s example of manufacturing simple goods, the likely fix is domestic automation. Whatever a human pair of hands can do in a mass manufacturing application should be replaced if possible with robust machines serviceable with relatively minimum levels of personnel.

    If we can build machines here that can make all kinds of stuff, we’ll have eliminated a lot of the human labor arbitrage that currently gives China and other peasant-heavy countries a manufacturing advantage.
  8. UK says:

    If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for “feeling” sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won’t. Airlines could experiment.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @UK

    Exactly. It's another of the sort of thing we could enjoy in a high-trust society, but which simply won't work in our Brave New World. Airlines used to offer 'bereavement fares' which offered genuine discounts for those who suddenly had to travel for family reasons, with documentation required of course.

    But if you go back just one generation before that, documentation wasn't even required.

    I'm reminded of the cabins for mountain hikers in Scandinavia, which operate on the honor system. How much longer do they have, I wonder.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @eD
    @UK

    "If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for “feeling” sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won’t. Airlines could experiment."

    These are good points, but several decades ago, for airlines, tickets that were easy to refund and/ or cancel were the norm. So somehow they made it work.

    Note there are refundable tickets now, its just they are so expensive compared to non-refundable tickets that if you are a non-business traveler, it is almost always less expensive to just buy the non-refundable ticket and eat it if you have to. I'm pretty sure the refundable tickets are almost exclusively sold to businesses.

    This probably could only exist in a more regulated environment, but my guess that the way to make this work is some combination of a) all tickets are refundable, there are no cheaper non-refundable options, due to regulation b) high processing fees to just buy a ticket so the airline gets some of its money even if the rest of the ticket is refunded and c) they are changeable instead of refundable, such as converted into miles.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  9. Off yet on topic, I still cannot believe this story is making the rounds without anyone officially suggesting anything unusual about the story.

    https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/man-who-died-ingesting-fish-tank-cleaner-remembered-as-intelligent-levelheaded/

    It almost has the LOL after every quote and comment about the “facts”.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @OscarWildeLoveChild

    Non mainstream media people were speculating his wife killed him within the first couple of days of the story hitting the news. The friends should feel terrible they didn't convince him to leave his crazy wife years ago, she had obviously been trying to kill him for awhile.


    A friend of Lenius's said that Wanda Lenius "often made a cocktail of vitamins for Gary."
     
    The state doesn't seem interested in investigating her for murder, but his life insurance company(assuming he had coverage) should refuse to pay. Too bad this reporter couldn't find out the value of his policy.
  10. Around 15 years ago I was seated in the row behind a young couple on a plane taxiing towards takeoff on a scheduled flight to Barcelona. The young woman was very pale and began to complain about severe pain in her stomach. Her partner/husband called for the flight attendants (against her wishes) and takeoff was aborted…to the immense anger of most people.

    I really admired the young guy. Even after a three hour delay.

  11. UK says:

    A little off topic but for a vaccine to be found quickly they need to be able to vaccinate the subjects and then try to infect them. This is generally considered extremely unethical and (kind of oddly) paying the subjects is considered worse. Nonetheless, given the scale of the crisis paying each subject a million dollars would perfectly feasible. When compared to the risk/reward profile of many other jobs, I don’t see how people can strongly argue against it, especially given the global benefit.

    • Agree: M_Young
    • Replies: @415 reasons
    @UK

    I have been saying this for over a month. See my comment from March 12 saying we’d need to push back on the assumption that vaccine development takes 18 months because that’s how long a normal drug development cycle would take if moved as fast as possible. I’m actually surprised that it’s taken so long for people to realize there’s not even a possibility of returning to anything resembling normal until we have a vaccine.

    , @Colin Wright
    @UK

    '... Nonetheless, given the scale of the crisis paying each subject a million dollars would perfectly feasible...'

    I'll take it! Sign me up.

    ...actually, can I skip the vaccine? The virus I'm not worried about -- the vaccine might have some side effect.

    Make me placebo man.

  12. Anonymous[120] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    That should also apply to train travel, public transit like subways, any sort of large public or commercial gatherings like ball games, malls, stores, no? Regulate them with price controls that make them prohibitively expensive for ordinary middle class people to consume more than rarely. Plane travel, shopping centers, pro ball games, concerts, etc. should be reserved for the wealthy who can afford private versions of them or afford the regulated higher prices.

    This is actually similar to the policy agenda of globalist “sustainable development” and “green” projects. The aim is to impose regulation and raise prices so that many things are no longer affordable to a broad middle class and are only accessible to the wealthy and connected government elites. A component to these projects was to promote public transit and higher density, so that people could still get around after they would be unable to afford their own cars and plane travel due to price controls and regulations, but this lockdown is showing that those are risky too and unnecessary, and that it’s better to just have people deliver necessities.

  13. The Minnesota firm that manufactures the masks actually makes them in a Singapore factory, which has the really important thing: the supply chain, which will all be ‘just in time’ because the Minnesota firm makes more profit that way.It is like the electric railway infrastructure that British capitalists built in Argentina, and then saw nationalised.


    The main symptom is a dry cough, as with dysentery the symptom is the means of spread. In future you will be sacked for turning up for work with a cough. Coughing when anyone is around will be about as acceptable, legal, or likely to start a physical altercation as spitting on them. Coughing on a plane will get you strapped to the seat with a bag over the head.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Sean

    The Minnesota firm that manufactures the masks actually makes them in a Singapore factory,

    How do you know that? Did you find out via the 3M site, a Singapore site, some other site, or are you just repeating what someone else told you?

  14. @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    So we go back to expensive flights to those few places the CAB decided made sense to them to allow flights to?

    Re-regulate them…

    For the benefit of the big guys? They were quite cozy under the old system. Nobody fought it repealing it more fiercely. Especially Juan T Trippe of Pan Am.

    …let airlines compete on amenities.

    Nobody cares about “amenities” for a three-hour flight. The few attempts at all-first-class airlines bombed.

    You sound like that Labour leader who pined for WWII, or Russians who miss Uncle Joe.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @Reg Cæsar


    For the benefit of the big guys?
     
    For you.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  15. … in the future airlines should allow you to back out of a ticket if you feel ill all the way up to the time of boarding in return for a voucher.

    Easily done in the pre-Rona days when airlines frequently oversold flights and could easily slip another sucker in your place; they might not be so willing to let you off the hook if the demand is not there to fill the seat. It will be nice to finally get emptier seats up front though.

  16. @Twinkie
    OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.
     

    Replies: @peterike, @Neil Templeton, @The Alarmist, @BenKenobi, @PiltdownMan

    My new pack of KN-95 masks just arrived … the Chinese writing says nothing about prison labour, but I’ll take a moment to pray for the poor soul who crafted mine and hope she or he didn’t spit into or otherwise sabotage them.

  17. @Reg Cæsar
    @Dave Pinsen


    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.
     
    So we go back to expensive flights to those few places the CAB decided made sense to them to allow flights to?

    Re-regulate them...
     
    For the benefit of the big guys? They were quite cozy under the old system. Nobody fought it repealing it more fiercely. Especially Juan T Trippe of Pan Am.

    ...let airlines compete on amenities.
     
    Nobody cares about "amenities" for a three-hour flight. The few attempts at all-first-class airlines bombed.

    You sound like that Labour leader who pined for WWII, or Russians who miss Uncle Joe.

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    For the benefit of the big guys?

    For you.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @BenKenobi



    For the benefit of the big guys?
     
    For you.

     

    Well, yes, when my dad worked for an Air Force contractor, we were in that lucky sliver of Americans who could afford to fly. When the aerospace industry tanked in the late '60s, we no longer were.
  18. @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    Say an airplane has 50 rows with 6 seats across in each row for a capacity of 300. Which distanced seating plan would make you more comfortable:

    A. Skipping every row (P for Passenger, X for blocked off)

    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP

    For 2/3 capacity

    B.
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX

    For 50% capacity

    C.
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX

    for 50% capacity

    D.
    PXX PXX
    XPX XPX
    XXP XXP

    for 33% capacity.

    Or some other clever plan?

    By the way, it sounds like a huge question we need an answer to is the risk of infection in which everybody seated is facing the same direction (e.g., airplanes, movie theaters, sports events, school buses, barber chairs) as opposed to people facing each other (restaurants, to some extent subways, etc.). My guess is that uni-directional facing is somewhat less risky than facing together or in semi-random directions like a NYC subway.

    If so, the next question is what is more risky in a unidirectional facing situation: side to side transmission or back to front transmission? E.g., would you rather have an empty seat directly behind you or to the side of you?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    What if you had enough space between rows that if someone fully reclined there'd be say, a foot in front of the next row, and you had UV lights on the cabin ceiling emitting a UV "curtain" between rows? Maybe something similar could be done in restaurants and theaters?

    , @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    This is fun. But crazy. It’s a virus that kills old and weak people. Just over a hundred years ago half the children died before adulthood. Now (to paraphrase Norman mailer many years ago) we live in the “ keep everyone alive society “. A different form of decadence.

  19. @Twinkie
    OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.
     

    Replies: @peterike, @Neil Templeton, @The Alarmist, @BenKenobi, @PiltdownMan

    Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @BenKenobi

    >>Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.<<

    Is someone forcing you to live in the US against your will?

    Replies: @Glaivester

  20. Break up the airline monopolies.

  21. @OscarWildeLoveChild
    Off yet on topic, I still cannot believe this story is making the rounds without anyone officially suggesting anything unusual about the story.

    https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/man-who-died-ingesting-fish-tank-cleaner-remembered-as-intelligent-levelheaded/

    It almost has the LOL after every quote and comment about the "facts".

    Replies: @Barnard

    Non mainstream media people were speculating his wife killed him within the first couple of days of the story hitting the news. The friends should feel terrible they didn’t convince him to leave his crazy wife years ago, she had obviously been trying to kill him for awhile.

    A friend of Lenius’s said that Wanda Lenius “often made a cocktail of vitamins for Gary.”

    The state doesn’t seem interested in investigating her for murder, but his life insurance company(assuming he had coverage) should refuse to pay. Too bad this reporter couldn’t find out the value of his policy.

  22. @Steve Sailer
    @Dave Pinsen

    Say an airplane has 50 rows with 6 seats across in each row for a capacity of 300. Which distanced seating plan would make you more comfortable:

    A. Skipping every row (P for Passenger, X for blocked off)

    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP

    For 2/3 capacity

    B.
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX

    For 50% capacity

    C.
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX

    for 50% capacity

    D.
    PXX PXX
    XPX XPX
    XXP XXP

    for 33% capacity.

    Or some other clever plan?

    By the way, it sounds like a huge question we need an answer to is the risk of infection in which everybody seated is facing the same direction (e.g., airplanes, movie theaters, sports events, school buses, barber chairs) as opposed to people facing each other (restaurants, to some extent subways, etc.). My guess is that uni-directional facing is somewhat less risky than facing together or in semi-random directions like a NYC subway.

    If so, the next question is what is more risky in a unidirectional facing situation: side to side transmission or back to front transmission? E.g., would you rather have an empty seat directly behind you or to the side of you?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anon

    What if you had enough space between rows that if someone fully reclined there’d be say, a foot in front of the next row, and you had UV lights on the cabin ceiling emitting a UV “curtain” between rows? Maybe something similar could be done in restaurants and theaters?

  23. @UK
    A little off topic but for a vaccine to be found quickly they need to be able to vaccinate the subjects and then try to infect them. This is generally considered extremely unethical and (kind of oddly) paying the subjects is considered worse. Nonetheless, given the scale of the crisis paying each subject a million dollars would perfectly feasible. When compared to the risk/reward profile of many other jobs, I don't see how people can strongly argue against it, especially given the global benefit.

    Replies: @415 reasons, @Colin Wright

    I have been saying this for over a month. See my comment from March 12 saying we’d need to push back on the assumption that vaccine development takes 18 months because that’s how long a normal drug development cycle would take if moved as fast as possible. I’m actually surprised that it’s taken so long for people to realize there’s not even a possibility of returning to anything resembling normal until we have a vaccine.

    • Agree: Sean
  24. @UK
    If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for "feeling" sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won't. Airlines could experiment.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @eD

    Exactly. It’s another of the sort of thing we could enjoy in a high-trust society, but which simply won’t work in our Brave New World. Airlines used to offer ‘bereavement fares’ which offered genuine discounts for those who suddenly had to travel for family reasons, with documentation required of course.

    But if you go back just one generation before that, documentation wasn’t even required.

    I’m reminded of the cabins for mountain hikers in Scandinavia, which operate on the honor system. How much longer do they have, I wonder.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mr McKenna

    I suspect cabins for backpackers in Scandinavia will be the last to succumb to demographic changes.

  25. @Neil Templeton
    @Twinkie

    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?

    Replies: @eD, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    “Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?”

    We don’t have to allow them to export their products into this country.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @eD

    A lot of the farmers in my state are getting killed by the trade war. Though I'm sure a Trumper will be here to tell me they are just deluded about their own finances because they all watch CNN. We're still waiting on those factories which are supposed to be brought back. But at least Trump's kept Huawei out. Can't have globohomo tech companies like Apple having any competition.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  26. To get the airline travel changes that many people on this thread seem to want, you have to re-regulate then or even nationalize them. This isn’t meant an objection, given the amount of subsidies they seem to need to remain profitable even with all the nickle and dime stuff they pull on their passengers.

    For everything else, it just calling off the media scare campaign may be enough.

  27. @Neil Templeton
    @Twinkie

    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?

    Replies: @eD, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?

    Speaking to Twinkie’s example of manufacturing simple goods, the likely fix is domestic automation. Whatever a human pair of hands can do in a mass manufacturing application should be replaced if possible with robust machines serviceable with relatively minimum levels of personnel.

    If we can build machines here that can make all kinds of stuff, we’ll have eliminated a lot of the human labor arbitrage that currently gives China and other peasant-heavy countries a manufacturing advantage.

  28. @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    The problem with re-regulating airfares (cartels) to drive prices up to make them “better” only works for those who can afford the new higher fares.

    I am old enough to remember how expensive air travel, even domestically, used to be relative to other costs.

    So what did many people do back then? Myself included. Took intercity buses. Now mostly gone.

    However in large cities or in cities with high travel needs in between, there are now frequent and fairly cheap buses. They are slow but depending on airports, not that much slower. However most (other than some luxury lines) are quite crowded. Full of poor people, many immigrants, many of whom are “undocumented” depending on where you live. In Texas there are special bus lines who specifically market cheap fares for Hispanic travelers. Quite “diverse” and low income mostly.

    As a young teen my brother and I took a 1000 mile round trip from the NW to New Mexico and back. Quite an adventure. But for longer distances, few want to travel 18-30 hours on crowded buses. Even 60 years ago, bus stations weren’t for the faint of heart. Now they are homeless magnets.

    Is that the “high fare” but nicer air travel you are advocating? Pure elitism. And personally I hate the cheapo flights full of gimme cap wearing morons myself. TSA too. But I’m not taking the bus.

  29. @UK
    If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for "feeling" sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won't. Airlines could experiment.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @eD

    “If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for “feeling” sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won’t. Airlines could experiment.”

    These are good points, but several decades ago, for airlines, tickets that were easy to refund and/ or cancel were the norm. So somehow they made it work.

    Note there are refundable tickets now, its just they are so expensive compared to non-refundable tickets that if you are a non-business traveler, it is almost always less expensive to just buy the non-refundable ticket and eat it if you have to. I’m pretty sure the refundable tickets are almost exclusively sold to businesses.

    This probably could only exist in a more regulated environment, but my guess that the way to make this work is some combination of a) all tickets are refundable, there are no cheaper non-refundable options, due to regulation b) high processing fees to just buy a ticket so the airline gets some of its money even if the rest of the ticket is refunded and c) they are changeable instead of refundable, such as converted into miles.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @eD

    I've had two tickets, booked for travel in May and June, cancelled in the last week by two different airlines. Since I bought them through an online portals, I'm think totally out of luck-I'm still poring through the contractual fine print to figure out what the force majeure wording is.

    Some degree of regulation of fares types and consistency of terms and conditions for cancellation would be good. It's not all or nothing. We don't have to go all the way back to the pre-deregulation cartelized world rich-people airfares.

  30. @BenKenobi
    @Twinkie

    Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.

    Replies: @Muggles

    >>Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.<<

    Is someone forcing you to live in the US against your will?

    • Replies: @Glaivester
    @Muggles

    I would suspect not, but that's irrelevant. Even if he moved somewhere else, it still would not be "his" country. It's not like he has some other option that will fulfill his needs, because any other nation that protects its people the way he wishes the U.S. would would by definition put him at the back of the priority list.

  31. @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    What? This option already exists..

    Just buy first class tickets!

  32. @epebble
    Taking sick leave or working from home when sick should also be made compulsory. Too many people come to work when they are obviously infectious (blowing nose, coughing, sneezing, complaining of fever ...)

    Replies: @Farenheit

    This coming to work sick thing is partly caused by the trend to lump sick time and vacation time together as “paid time off”..or PTO in corporate-speak.

    It incentivises employees to dose up and crawl into work so they can maximize their vacation time.
    It may be time to go back to the old system.

    • Replies: @AnonAnon
    @Farenheit


    This coming to work sick thing is partly caused by the trend to lump sick time and vacation time together as “paid time off”..or PTO in corporate-speak.
     
    Maybe. I remember in the old days of actual sick leave if you took more than two or three days of it the rumor was HR would flag you.
  33. @Dave Pinsen
    It looks like deregulation of air travel was ultimately a bad idea. It led to cheap flights at the expense of hygiene and comfort.

    Re-regulate them, mandating minimum ticket prices and lower maximum capacity, and let airlines compete on amenities.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Steve Sailer, @Muggles, @Kaz, @Alexander Turok

    Talk about throwing the baby about with the bathwater.

    If you want more comfort, buy first class. If the issue is proles at the airport, why not just say it?

  34. Off topic: Steve Sailer content

    students have successfully gotten the right to sue Detroit for not making them smarter:

    The inalienable right to be within x standard deviations of the average intelligence has been violated and someone(presumably whitey) must pay. I believe that right is in the constitution next to the part about homosexual marriage.

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @bigdicknick


    Detroit students have a fundamental right to basic minimum education
     
    Oh, that's easy. Just end compulsory education after, say, 8th grade. Eighth grade should fulfill "basic minimum", and after that, if you make it clear you don't want to be in school and are preventing others from academic progress, out you go. Easy peasy Japanese-y. For bonus points, reduce or eliminate the minimum wage and reduce the employment tax and allow for the employment of ages 14-17.

    Won't happen, of course, for the obvious reasons, but if we really cared for "the underprivileged" rather than using them for political points, this is what we'd do.

    Replies: @bigdicknick

  35. A very interesting finding regarding masks:

    https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-infections

    “When we first began our universal masking policy, we had 12 to 14 new infections per day among our health care workers,” he said. “And then after we instituted employee masking, that number dropped down to around eight.”

    It dropped still further to about six new infections a day once patients had to wear masks, too.

    This is by no means gold-plated evidence, Klompas said, and correlation is not causation, but it does suggest that wearing simple masks may help stem the spread of the virus, whether in a hospital or out in public.

    He hopes to find out whether other hospitals in the Partners Healthcare system, which imposed the “universal mask” policy system-wide, have seen similar drops. “If it’s a consistent pattern, I’d be more apt to believe it,” he said.

    It’s thought that employees most often catch the virus outside the hospital, Klompas said, so that could explain why the number of new infections did not drop all the way to zero.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @candid_observer

    Add one of Jack Klompas' raincoats and you've really got protection.

    Thanks for the link.

  36. A good compromise for airlines would be through regulation to

    a) require them to make all tickets refundable for at least a credit toward future travel.

    b) reduce penalties to airlines for booting you off a flight when they’ve overbooked.

    The idea here is that the airlines will get relatively good at figuring out what percentage of flyers
    will “call in sick” even including the liars. Then they will simply overbook by that amount. But
    every so often, they will overbook too much, and we the public, can’t crucify them for doing so. That’s the price we pay for requiring them to allow for refundable tickets. Seems like a fair trade to me.

  37. Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets. Would solve a ton of other problems.

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @bellitas et veritas


    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets. Would solve a ton of other problems.
     
    Yeah, we could sell 'em on HubHub.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    @bellitas et veritas


    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets.
     
    You could do that about 20 years ago, and then it was banned for security reasons, or something. I used to buy the family tickets to Houston from people who had frequent flyer miles. I think that's what the airlines didn't like.
  38. @Mr McKenna
    @UK

    Exactly. It's another of the sort of thing we could enjoy in a high-trust society, but which simply won't work in our Brave New World. Airlines used to offer 'bereavement fares' which offered genuine discounts for those who suddenly had to travel for family reasons, with documentation required of course.

    But if you go back just one generation before that, documentation wasn't even required.

    I'm reminded of the cabins for mountain hikers in Scandinavia, which operate on the honor system. How much longer do they have, I wonder.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I suspect cabins for backpackers in Scandinavia will be the last to succumb to demographic changes.

  39. Anonymous[160] • Disclaimer says:

    Whoops thought it was a football thread…

    OT: Idiotic Bengals management drafts Burrow and it only makes sense if they planned to use him to do a great trade deal but no they’re actually going to play him.

    Shitty NFL franchises like Bengals don’t benefit from a guy like Burrow. The franchise is riddled with incompetence. A star passing QB can’t fix a shitty organization.

    Dumb teams sometimes can be vastly improved by young athletic running QBs though. Guys who can win the game on their own and take the incompetent coach & offensive coordinator out of the picture.

    Mike Brown hereditary owner (nepotism) should’ve fired himself a long time ago. Even the Bengals wiki page is depressing. Had high hopes for Burrow WTF.

    Cincinatti would be a perfect place to bring in a bunch of solid boring white guy team player types to stabilize the locker room build morale with work ethic and over achievement. NOPE. Instead it’s ebonics everywhere.

  40. @Steve Sailer
    @Dave Pinsen

    Say an airplane has 50 rows with 6 seats across in each row for a capacity of 300. Which distanced seating plan would make you more comfortable:

    A. Skipping every row (P for Passenger, X for blocked off)

    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP
    PXP PXP

    For 2/3 capacity

    B.
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX

    For 50% capacity

    C.
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX
    PXP PXP
    XPX XPX

    for 50% capacity

    D.
    PXX PXX
    XPX XPX
    XXP XXP

    for 33% capacity.

    Or some other clever plan?

    By the way, it sounds like a huge question we need an answer to is the risk of infection in which everybody seated is facing the same direction (e.g., airplanes, movie theaters, sports events, school buses, barber chairs) as opposed to people facing each other (restaurants, to some extent subways, etc.). My guess is that uni-directional facing is somewhat less risky than facing together or in semi-random directions like a NYC subway.

    If so, the next question is what is more risky in a unidirectional facing situation: side to side transmission or back to front transmission? E.g., would you rather have an empty seat directly behind you or to the side of you?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anon

    This is fun. But crazy. It’s a virus that kills old and weak people. Just over a hundred years ago half the children died before adulthood. Now (to paraphrase Norman mailer many years ago) we live in the “ keep everyone alive society “. A different form of decadence.

  41. @Barnard
    Can the airlines afford to do that? How many years will it be before airlines reach their pre Wuhan Flu passenger levels? The industry keeps pushing the opposite direction, fees for every single stage of the transaction, checking a bag, getting an assigned seat, wanting to change your flight, etc. The airlines would have to have this forced on them.

    The bigger question is if anyone is willing to put a hard check on the trial lawyers. A number of businesses would reopen tomorrow if they were given immunity from customers suing them for contracting the virus at their establishment.

    Replies: @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang, @Anonymous

    This. Literally no one cares what the CDC says, it’s irrelevant. The ONLY thing ANYONE who matters cares about it “where does my responsibility end? If a worker/customer gets COVID, is that on me?” Until that’s understood, everything will be on permanent freeze

  42. @UK
    A little off topic but for a vaccine to be found quickly they need to be able to vaccinate the subjects and then try to infect them. This is generally considered extremely unethical and (kind of oddly) paying the subjects is considered worse. Nonetheless, given the scale of the crisis paying each subject a million dollars would perfectly feasible. When compared to the risk/reward profile of many other jobs, I don't see how people can strongly argue against it, especially given the global benefit.

    Replies: @415 reasons, @Colin Wright

    ‘… Nonetheless, given the scale of the crisis paying each subject a million dollars would perfectly feasible…’

    I’ll take it! Sign me up.

    …actually, can I skip the vaccine? The virus I’m not worried about — the vaccine might have some side effect.

    Make me placebo man.

  43. @Sean
    The Minnesota firm that manufactures the masks actually makes them in a Singapore factory, which has the really important thing: the supply chain, which will all be 'just in time' because the Minnesota firm makes more profit that way.It is like the electric railway infrastructure that British capitalists built in Argentina, and then saw nationalised.

    ---
    The main symptom is a dry cough, as with dysentery the symptom is the means of spread. In future you will be sacked for turning up for work with a cough. Coughing when anyone is around will be about as acceptable, legal, or likely to start a physical altercation as spitting on them. Coughing on a plane will get you strapped to the seat with a bag over the head.

    Replies: @anon

    The Minnesota firm that manufactures the masks actually makes them in a Singapore factory,

    How do you know that? Did you find out via the 3M site, a Singapore site, some other site, or are you just repeating what someone else told you?

    • Troll: Sean
  44. Anonymous[538] • Disclaimer says:
    @eD
    @Neil Templeton

    "Jesus. How are we going to compete with this culture?"

    We don't have to allow them to export their products into this country.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    A lot of the farmers in my state are getting killed by the trade war. Though I’m sure a Trumper will be here to tell me they are just deluded about their own finances because they all watch CNN. We’re still waiting on those factories which are supposed to be brought back. But at least Trump’s kept Huawei out. Can’t have globohomo tech companies like Apple having any competition.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    No one but Apple makes a profit on phones to speak of because Android phones are extremely competitive. Android phones are more versatile but Apple phones in general are much easier to support in the hands of non-facile or technically challenged users. Build quality on Apples are consistently good, on Androids it ranges from excellent to useless.

    Apple appears to have recently announced that they are once more transitioning the Mac processor architecture to ARM. There will be teething problems. Apple will meet its Waterloo sooner or later because Cook is not Steve Jobs. Certain people who have stuck with Mac because of a reluctance to learn new technology when it is a little challenging, will now probably have to learn new technology when it's even more challenging for them. Apple's strategy of maximizing profit share depends on offering a genuinely superior user experience and the UI is not that much better on the latest gen products.

    As someone said, when the Model T with its odd controls unique to it was replaced by the Model A with an industry standard interface, some people just refused to adapt and kept their old "flivvers" going until they died or were too decrepit to drive any more.

    Replies: @Anon87

  45. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Barnard
    Can the airlines afford to do that? How many years will it be before airlines reach their pre Wuhan Flu passenger levels? The industry keeps pushing the opposite direction, fees for every single stage of the transaction, checking a bag, getting an assigned seat, wanting to change your flight, etc. The airlines would have to have this forced on them.

    The bigger question is if anyone is willing to put a hard check on the trial lawyers. A number of businesses would reopen tomorrow if they were given immunity from customers suing them for contracting the virus at their establishment.

    Replies: @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang, @Anonymous

    Historically the donkeys would rather die than inconvenience twial wawyers-because they contribute a lot of money-and the gop likes to thunder and rail against them while not really wanting to bell the cat because half of them are dirt bag lawyers too and they don’t want the heat even if they are too dumb to be trial studs themselves.

    But things change at some point.

  46. The common thread between all these SSEs is “events you would still attend even if you weren’t feeling great”.

    Perhaps surprisingly, choir practice would also make this list. My group’s guidelines specifically say to try not to miss any rehearsal, even if not feeling great. “If you can’t sing, you can still listen and get the notes.” If you miss more than three rehearsals in a season, you need to re-audition for the group next season.

  47. In the early days of air travel, they would simply toss you off the flight with a parachute if they thought you had the WuFlu.

  48. @Twinkie
    OT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/asia/coronavirus-face-masks-hong-kong.html

    HONG KONG — When word came that a dangerous new virus was killing people in mainland China, the people of Hong Kong sprang into action. Virtually overnight, the schools were closed, posters appeared around the city reminding residents to wash their hands, and seemingly everyone on the street was wearing a face mask.

    While the West debated the efficacy of masks, Hong Kong residents, stung by the deadly SARS outbreak 17 years ago, put their trust in them. In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.
    But behind the ubiquitous masks is a truth that not everyone here knows. Millions of Hong Kong’s surgical masks are produced by prisoners, some of whom have been working late at night for mere pennies since the outbreak hit.

    The medium-security Lo Wu prison, located near the mainland border, has been churning out masks 24 hours a day since February, when the Hong Kong government ramped up production to supply the city’s army of medical, public health and sanitation workers.

    Working around the clock, inmates, along with retired and off-duty correction officers volunteering their time, now produce 2.5 million masks per month, up from 1.1 million before the outbreak.
     

    Replies: @peterike, @Neil Templeton, @The Alarmist, @BenKenobi, @PiltdownMan

    In the months since the pandemic began on its doorstep, only four people in Hong Kong, a city of 7.5 million, have died from Covid-19.

    As a person who moved from Manhattan to Hong Kong in the 1990s, that really stands out. More than ten thousand people have died in New York City from Covid-19.

    The two cities are very similar, in living arrangements, density of population and use of public transportation and in being an open, international city. Hong Kong, despite recent headlines, is no mainland Communist China, in its civic culture, municipal administration, or the temperament of its citizens.

    Perhaps LastRealCalvinist, who actually lives there, would care to comment.

  49. @eD
    @UK

    "If you let people back out of a contractual arrangement for “feeling” sick theme everyone becomes Ferris Bueler. Worse, they start booking things that they may only want while knowing they can easily back out of it. This is especially bad with plane tickets with their extreme use of market differentiation.

    Maybe people will to only go on flights like that or maybe they won’t. Airlines could experiment."

    These are good points, but several decades ago, for airlines, tickets that were easy to refund and/ or cancel were the norm. So somehow they made it work.

    Note there are refundable tickets now, its just they are so expensive compared to non-refundable tickets that if you are a non-business traveler, it is almost always less expensive to just buy the non-refundable ticket and eat it if you have to. I'm pretty sure the refundable tickets are almost exclusively sold to businesses.

    This probably could only exist in a more regulated environment, but my guess that the way to make this work is some combination of a) all tickets are refundable, there are no cheaper non-refundable options, due to regulation b) high processing fees to just buy a ticket so the airline gets some of its money even if the rest of the ticket is refunded and c) they are changeable instead of refundable, such as converted into miles.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    I’ve had two tickets, booked for travel in May and June, cancelled in the last week by two different airlines. Since I bought them through an online portals, I’m think totally out of luck-I’m still poring through the contractual fine print to figure out what the force majeure wording is.

    Some degree of regulation of fares types and consistency of terms and conditions for cancellation would be good. It’s not all or nothing. We don’t have to go all the way back to the pre-deregulation cartelized world rich-people airfares.

  50. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    If you are the type that enjoys going to funerals… on the plus side, taking your bug to a funeral bumps up your chances of attending more of them sooner, but with somewhat less people at each.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @Anonymous

    And since Covid19 disproportionately kills males, improves your odds of grievance sex.

  51. @Muggles
    @BenKenobi

    >>Must be nice to have an actual country instead of a polyglot boarding house/strip mall.<<

    Is someone forcing you to live in the US against your will?

    Replies: @Glaivester

    I would suspect not, but that’s irrelevant. Even if he moved somewhere else, it still would not be “his” country. It’s not like he has some other option that will fulfill his needs, because any other nation that protects its people the way he wishes the U.S. would would by definition put him at the back of the priority list.

  52. @Anonymous
    If you are the type that enjoys going to funerals... on the plus side, taking your bug to a funeral bumps up your chances of attending more of them sooner, but with somewhat less people at each.

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    And since Covid19 disproportionately kills males, improves your odds of grievance sex.

  53. @BenKenobi
    @Reg Cæsar


    For the benefit of the big guys?
     
    For you.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    For the benefit of the big guys?

    For you.

    Well, yes, when my dad worked for an Air Force contractor, we were in that lucky sliver of Americans who could afford to fly. When the aerospace industry tanked in the late ’60s, we no longer were.

  54. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @eD

    A lot of the farmers in my state are getting killed by the trade war. Though I'm sure a Trumper will be here to tell me they are just deluded about their own finances because they all watch CNN. We're still waiting on those factories which are supposed to be brought back. But at least Trump's kept Huawei out. Can't have globohomo tech companies like Apple having any competition.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    No one but Apple makes a profit on phones to speak of because Android phones are extremely competitive. Android phones are more versatile but Apple phones in general are much easier to support in the hands of non-facile or technically challenged users. Build quality on Apples are consistently good, on Androids it ranges from excellent to useless.

    Apple appears to have recently announced that they are once more transitioning the Mac processor architecture to ARM. There will be teething problems. Apple will meet its Waterloo sooner or later because Cook is not Steve Jobs. Certain people who have stuck with Mac because of a reluctance to learn new technology when it is a little challenging, will now probably have to learn new technology when it’s even more challenging for them. Apple’s strategy of maximizing profit share depends on offering a genuinely superior user experience and the UI is not that much better on the latest gen products.

    As someone said, when the Model T with its odd controls unique to it was replaced by the Model A with an industry standard interface, some people just refused to adapt and kept their old “flivvers” going until they died or were too decrepit to drive any more.

    • Replies: @Anon87
    @Anonymous

    Apple lives off of marketing and branding, which works quite well for them. They are "easier" because they strip out as much as possible in HW to force you into paying for high margin SW (skimpy internal storage, pay us for cloud storage). Any HW they do have is very proprietary, overpriced, and poorly made.

    They make tons of money and have obscene margins, but let's not kid ourselves that they actually make a good product.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  55. @Farenheit
    @epebble

    This coming to work sick thing is partly caused by the trend to lump sick time and vacation time together as "paid time off"..or PTO in corporate-speak.

    It incentivises employees to dose up and crawl into work so they can maximize their vacation time.
    It may be time to go back to the old system.

    Replies: @AnonAnon

    This coming to work sick thing is partly caused by the trend to lump sick time and vacation time together as “paid time off”..or PTO in corporate-speak.

    Maybe. I remember in the old days of actual sick leave if you took more than two or three days of it the rumor was HR would flag you.

  56. @bigdicknick
    Off topic: Steve Sailer content

    students have successfully gotten the right to sue Detroit for not making them smarter:

    https://twitter.com/detroitnews/status/1253382875824742400

    The inalienable right to be within x standard deviations of the average intelligence has been violated and someone(presumably whitey) must pay. I believe that right is in the constitution next to the part about homosexual marriage.

    Replies: @Neuday

    Detroit students have a fundamental right to basic minimum education

    Oh, that’s easy. Just end compulsory education after, say, 8th grade. Eighth grade should fulfill “basic minimum”, and after that, if you make it clear you don’t want to be in school and are preventing others from academic progress, out you go. Easy peasy Japanese-y. For bonus points, reduce or eliminate the minimum wage and reduce the employment tax and allow for the employment of ages 14-17.

    Won’t happen, of course, for the obvious reasons, but if we really cared for “the underprivileged” rather than using them for political points, this is what we’d do.

    • Replies: @bigdicknick
    @Neuday

    I find this case interesting and hilarious for a variety of reasons.

    1. it's based on the claim that humans have an inalienable right to the labor of others.

    2. the students are already consuming a ton of the labor product of educators. I think detroit spends like 14k/ student/year.

    3. the proof is basically that the students are dumb. So being dumb is a human rights violation for which whites are responsible.

  57. @bellitas et veritas
    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets. Would solve a ton of other problems.

    Replies: @Neuday, @Jim Don Bob

    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets. Would solve a ton of other problems.

    Yeah, we could sell ’em on HubHub.

  58. @candid_observer
    A very interesting finding regarding masks:

    https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-infections


    "When we first began our universal masking policy, we had 12 to 14 new infections per day among our health care workers," he said. "And then after we instituted employee masking, that number dropped down to around eight."

    It dropped still further to about six new infections a day once patients had to wear masks, too.

    This is by no means gold-plated evidence, Klompas said, and correlation is not causation, but it does suggest that wearing simple masks may help stem the spread of the virus, whether in a hospital or out in public.

    He hopes to find out whether other hospitals in the Partners Healthcare system, which imposed the "universal mask" policy system-wide, have seen similar drops. "If it's a consistent pattern, I'd be more apt to believe it," he said.

    It's thought that employees most often catch the virus outside the hospital, Klompas said, so that could explain why the number of new infections did not drop all the way to zero.
     

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    Add one of Jack Klompas’ raincoats and you’ve really got protection.

    Thanks for the link.

  59. @bellitas et veritas
    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets. Would solve a ton of other problems.

    Replies: @Neuday, @Jim Don Bob

    Even easier would be to allow resale of airline tickets.

    You could do that about 20 years ago, and then it was banned for security reasons, or something. I used to buy the family tickets to Houston from people who had frequent flyer miles. I think that’s what the airlines didn’t like.

  60. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    No one but Apple makes a profit on phones to speak of because Android phones are extremely competitive. Android phones are more versatile but Apple phones in general are much easier to support in the hands of non-facile or technically challenged users. Build quality on Apples are consistently good, on Androids it ranges from excellent to useless.

    Apple appears to have recently announced that they are once more transitioning the Mac processor architecture to ARM. There will be teething problems. Apple will meet its Waterloo sooner or later because Cook is not Steve Jobs. Certain people who have stuck with Mac because of a reluctance to learn new technology when it is a little challenging, will now probably have to learn new technology when it's even more challenging for them. Apple's strategy of maximizing profit share depends on offering a genuinely superior user experience and the UI is not that much better on the latest gen products.

    As someone said, when the Model T with its odd controls unique to it was replaced by the Model A with an industry standard interface, some people just refused to adapt and kept their old "flivvers" going until they died or were too decrepit to drive any more.

    Replies: @Anon87

    Apple lives off of marketing and branding, which works quite well for them. They are “easier” because they strip out as much as possible in HW to force you into paying for high margin SW (skimpy internal storage, pay us for cloud storage). Any HW they do have is very proprietary, overpriced, and poorly made.

    They make tons of money and have obscene margins, but let’s not kid ourselves that they actually make a good product.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon87

    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.

    Apple hardware is compact, looks nice, usually runs with little trouble for its supported design life, and if you get AppleCare and it breaks they will get you going again.

    Repairability sucks. Computational power per dollar on Macs is poor. Mac OS, and iOS, are designed to be used one way, Steve’s way. And Steve will be dead a decade here shortly.

    Apple’s fortune comes not from the Mac but from the iOS environment and its ecosystem. Someday there will be a next thing, and there is no one there likely to build it or see it for what it is. Apple is therefore not long term sustainable.

    But then again neither is California, nor The United States Of America. The demise of Apple will probably be the least of the impending collapses to worry about.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Anon87

  61. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon87
    @Anonymous

    Apple lives off of marketing and branding, which works quite well for them. They are "easier" because they strip out as much as possible in HW to force you into paying for high margin SW (skimpy internal storage, pay us for cloud storage). Any HW they do have is very proprietary, overpriced, and poorly made.

    They make tons of money and have obscene margins, but let's not kid ourselves that they actually make a good product.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.

    Apple hardware is compact, looks nice, usually runs with little trouble for its supported design life, and if you get AppleCare and it breaks they will get you going again.

    Repairability sucks. Computational power per dollar on Macs is poor. Mac OS, and iOS, are designed to be used one way, Steve’s way. And Steve will be dead a decade here shortly.

    Apple’s fortune comes not from the Mac but from the iOS environment and its ecosystem. Someday there will be a next thing, and there is no one there likely to build it or see it for what it is. Apple is therefore not long term sustainable.

    But then again neither is California, nor The United States Of America. The demise of Apple will probably be the least of the impending collapses to worry about.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.
     
    The Camry is a pinnacle of what?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Anon87
    @Anonymous

    I assumed the US has essentially collapsed already, but things like Apple keep us pacified enough not to notice. So I fear once that crap fails people will notice what a dysfunctional shithole we've become.

  62. The common thread between all these SSEs is “events you would still attend even if you weren’t feeling great”.

    I get it, but is it really true?

    The event that I attended in February that now appears to have been an SSE is one that I did not attend last year because I was not feeling well.

  63. @Anonymous
    @Anon87

    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.

    Apple hardware is compact, looks nice, usually runs with little trouble for its supported design life, and if you get AppleCare and it breaks they will get you going again.

    Repairability sucks. Computational power per dollar on Macs is poor. Mac OS, and iOS, are designed to be used one way, Steve’s way. And Steve will be dead a decade here shortly.

    Apple’s fortune comes not from the Mac but from the iOS environment and its ecosystem. Someday there will be a next thing, and there is no one there likely to build it or see it for what it is. Apple is therefore not long term sustainable.

    But then again neither is California, nor The United States Of America. The demise of Apple will probably be the least of the impending collapses to worry about.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Anon87

    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.

    The Camry is a pinnacle of what?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @ben tillman

    I could imagine a 2005 Camry as the pinnacle of all aroundness. I have a 1998 Infiniti J30 sedan and it's pretty great, so if 1998 luxury sedan quality had migrated down to a $23k mass market sedan by 2005 ...

    Replies: @ben tillman

  64. @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.
     
    The Camry is a pinnacle of what?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I could imagine a 2005 Camry as the pinnacle of all aroundness. I have a 1998 Infiniti J30 sedan and it’s pretty great, so if 1998 luxury sedan quality had migrated down to a $23k mass market sedan by 2005 …

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Steve Sailer

    I had to ask because I'm still driving a glorified 2005 Camry also know as a Lexus 330. And it was worth it to pay a few thousand extra to be able to enjoy all that wood in the interior for so many years.

  65. @Steve Sailer
    @ben tillman

    I could imagine a 2005 Camry as the pinnacle of all aroundness. I have a 1998 Infiniti J30 sedan and it's pretty great, so if 1998 luxury sedan quality had migrated down to a $23k mass market sedan by 2005 ...

    Replies: @ben tillman

    I had to ask because I’m still driving a glorified 2005 Camry also know as a Lexus 330. And it was worth it to pay a few thousand extra to be able to enjoy all that wood in the interior for so many years.

  66. @Neuday
    @bigdicknick


    Detroit students have a fundamental right to basic minimum education
     
    Oh, that's easy. Just end compulsory education after, say, 8th grade. Eighth grade should fulfill "basic minimum", and after that, if you make it clear you don't want to be in school and are preventing others from academic progress, out you go. Easy peasy Japanese-y. For bonus points, reduce or eliminate the minimum wage and reduce the employment tax and allow for the employment of ages 14-17.

    Won't happen, of course, for the obvious reasons, but if we really cared for "the underprivileged" rather than using them for political points, this is what we'd do.

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    I find this case interesting and hilarious for a variety of reasons.

    1. it’s based on the claim that humans have an inalienable right to the labor of others.

    2. the students are already consuming a ton of the labor product of educators. I think detroit spends like 14k/ student/year.

    3. the proof is basically that the students are dumb. So being dumb is a human rights violation for which whites are responsible.

  67. @Anonymous
    @Anon87

    You have to define “good”. Which is most good, a McLaren F1, a 2005 Toyota Camry, a 1973 Chevy C-20 pickup? Each is a pinnacle of something.

    Apple hardware is compact, looks nice, usually runs with little trouble for its supported design life, and if you get AppleCare and it breaks they will get you going again.

    Repairability sucks. Computational power per dollar on Macs is poor. Mac OS, and iOS, are designed to be used one way, Steve’s way. And Steve will be dead a decade here shortly.

    Apple’s fortune comes not from the Mac but from the iOS environment and its ecosystem. Someday there will be a next thing, and there is no one there likely to build it or see it for what it is. Apple is therefore not long term sustainable.

    But then again neither is California, nor The United States Of America. The demise of Apple will probably be the least of the impending collapses to worry about.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Anon87

    I assumed the US has essentially collapsed already, but things like Apple keep us pacified enough not to notice. So I fear once that crap fails people will notice what a dysfunctional shithole we’ve become.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS