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A big change in crime-fighting tactics in California over the last decade has been to stop focusing on arresting just the “kingpins” of street gangs (because, it turns out, it doesn’t actually take some kind of rare Ernst Stavro Blofeld-style malevolent brilliance to run a gang). Instead, all the cop agencies get together and sweep up at once all the low-level “gang-affiliated” usual suspects (e.g., guys with gang tattoos on their heads) and send them to prison on RICO (Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization) charges and/or enhance their sentences for other crimes.
Veteran SoCal crime reporter Sam Quinones explained late last year:
The 2006 case against HLP was the first in Los Angeles to use RICO statutes on foot soldiers as well as gang leadership. Street gangs had previously been seen as small fry, but, by the mid-2000s, “the culture changed in terms of using this great tool,” says Jim Trusty, chief of the U.S. Justice Department’s Organized Crime and Gang section in Washington, D.C.
… Today, federal agents and local police officers routinely work together on cases.
… Prosecuting street gangs has meant abandoning the previous focus on kingpins. “‘Cut off the head and body dies’ just isn’t true” when it comes to Southern California street gangs, says Brunwin. “You have to go after everyone—anyone who had anything to do with, supported, or touched the organization. You have to have an effect on the structure, its daily operation. The only thing that works is adopting a scorched-Earth policy.”
Since 2006, there have been more than two dozen RICO indictments in Southern California, targeting Florencia 13, Hawaiian Gardens (HG-13), Azusa 13, Five-Deuce Broadway Gangster Crips, Pueblo Bishop Bloods, and many more of the region’s most entrenched and violent gangs.
Most of the indictments have dozens of defendants; the Florencia case had 102, while Hawaiian Gardens, in 2009, was one of the largest street-gang indictments in U.S. history, with 147.
Some of these indictments once provided news fodder for days. Now they’re so common that they no longer earn the Los Angeles Times’ front page. A recent RICO indictment against 41 members of the El Monte Flores gang, detailing alleged extortion, drug taxation, and race-hate crimes dating back more than a decade, didn’t even warrant a press conference. …
Most of the Southern California RICO prosecutions have instead swept up large numbers of street gang members. Leaders of prison gangs like the Mexican Mafia usually aren’t even charged in these prosecutions, and are referred to as “unindicted co-conspirators.” “In prosecuting the members, you make [prison-gang leaders] powerless,” Brunwin says. “If no one’s out there on the street doing their work, then they’re just guys in cells.”
Southern California RICO cases have sent large numbers of street-gang soldiers to prisons in places like Arkansas or Indiana, where no girlfriend is coming to visit. In California prisons, inmates usually serve only half their time before getting out on parole, but federal prison sentences are long and provide for no parole.
To my eye, the effects of most RICO prosecutions against Southern California gangs have been dramatic, as if a series of anthills had been not just disturbed but dug up whole. Hawaiian Gardens has seen a 50 percent in drop in violent crime since the prosecutions of 2009. The neighborhoods that spawned Azusa 13 and Florencia 13 seem completely changed. I’ve seen similar post-RICO transformations across Southern California.
Part of this is just high real estate prices driving the families of guys who will grow up to be usual suspects out of Southern California and into the less expensive places like the Central Valley of California.
But still, Quinones may well have a point that these kind of military-style massive raids may be helping.
Of course, rounding up the usual suspects doesn’t sound particularly in line with Anglo-Saxon individualistic principles of jurisprudence.
The good folks in the Central Valley are now trying to reproduce what SoCal law enforcement managed to do with lots of federal help.
The NYT used a more winsome picture
Not surprisingly, the New York Times, with it’s tireless suspicions that flyover folks might be trying to discourage blacks and Hispanics from leaving the big, expensive cities, is alarmed.
In a strange twist, they are defending a white (or whitish) guy named Jesse Sebourn accused in Modesto of belonging to the East Side gang. (He has “ES” visibly tattooed on the back of his head). But, you see, he’s a white guy accused of being in a Hispanic gang:
How Do You Define a Gang Member?
Laws across the country are being used to target young men who fit the description for gang affiliation. But what if they aren’t what they seem?
By DANIEL ALARCÓN MAY 27, 2015
The trial of Sebourn and eight other defendants was a classic POS case of the kind that left Asst. DA Kramer in Bonfire of the Vanities pensive over his career choice. Sebourn and his sister got caught by a North Side gang tagging over the Northsiders’ graffiti and got beat up. A few hours later a member of the Nortenos was murdered, presumably in retaliation.
The cops rounded up the usual suspects in the Surenos, although at least one had vamoosed back to Mexico. They flipped one woman to testify against the other arrestees. So the defense claimed the prosecution’s witness and the fugitive were the real killers and everybody else was just tangentially involved.
The only thing I can conclude is that I’m glad I don’t live in Modesto.
The point of the NYT article is to get us worked up over the prosecution’s use of “gang-enhancement” to boost the maximum sentence possible from 15 years to 50 years. As usual, nobody is very interested in general principles, just whether or some white guys are being racist.
… In Stanislaus [Modesto] County, as in many counties in California and across the United States, law-enforcement officers keep a database of individuals that they have identified as gang members. From their point of view, these lists are vital and necessary, but activists argue that they can be discriminatory. Researchers have found that white gang membership tends to be underestimated and undercounted, while the opposite is true for black and Latino youth. In 1997, California created a statewide database, called CalGang, and by 2012, according to documents obtained by the Youth Justice Coalition, there were more than 200,000 individuals named in it (roughly the same number as the population of Modesto), including some as young as 10. Statewide, 66 percent were Latino, and one in 10 of all African-Americans in Los Angeles County between the ages of 20 and 24 were on the list. … Black and Latino inmates account for more than 90 percent of inmates with gang enhancements; fewer than 3 percent are white.
The article doesn’t document what evidence, if any, there is that white gang members are underestimated and undercounted.
Indeed, the article’s focus on a white guy accused of being part of a Hispanic gang (a not uncommon phenomenon — there are so few white street gangs left that white guys who like the criminal life often join Latin gangs) undercuts the implication that California is full of white street gangs, a concept that’s easier to derive from SPLC fundraising direct mail than from living here.
One interesting lesson that isn’t brought out in the article is that in the age of everybody having a Social Media Permanent Record, it’s harder to be a criminal:
At the Sebourn trial, Brennan showed the jury and his witness, Robert Gumm, a Modesto Police Department detective, image after image of Sebourn’s extended network of friends, photos of young men and women throwing up signs for the number 13, contorting their fingers into crooked forms of the letters CLS, for Celeste Locos Sureños, Sebourn’s clique from the neighborhood near Celeste Street, on the east side of Modesto. Most of the pictures had been taken from the defendants’ cellphones, as well as from their Facebook pages. The jury saw photos of tattoos, of young men drinking 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor, scowling at the camera. It was a gangbanger’s photo album, or at least that was what this curated selection of images appeared to be. And though Sebourn himself was in only a couple, Brennan argued that he was known to these young people, as they were known to him. It was guilt by association. And it was very convincing. That rainy morning in Modesto, I had two contradictory thoughts at once: This doesn’t seem fair; and These knuckleheads sure look like gang members.
If you were a serious mastermind criminal, yeah, you could probably keep pictures of you kicking it with your homies off Facebook. But most street gang members are dopes and are in it for the feelings of social dominance as much as for the money. So if you can’t boast about your exploits online, what’s the point?
According to the defense, the defendant is a dope:
NYT’s slightly less glowering picture of Sebourn and his sister
Sebourn’s father, Michael, was a former Aryan Brotherhood member who spent much of his son’s childhood in prison. He had just been released a few weeks before the murder, and he was also a defendant in the case. Sebourn was raised by his mother, Sandra, who worked at a hospital, and her boyfriend, a man named Kyle Garcia, who died of cancer just before the trial began.
Beginning when Sebourn was in second grade, his teachers wanted to put him in special-education classes, Sandra told me, but she rejected the idea. “I didn’t want him to deal with that stigma,” she said. An expert hired by the defense estimated that Sebourn’s I.Q. was only 70 and described him as having severe intellectual limitations, unable to remember his own address or phone number. Brian Ford, a clerk for Sebourn’s lawyer, told me that Sebourn was something of a neighborhood mascot, a teenager who had never really grown up: a funny, goofy boy, always smiling. He liked to drink, smoke weed and hang out with his friends, most of whom were Latino.
Having a 70 IQ doesn’t seem to have hurt him with the ladies:
He dropped out of school at 16 and became a father a couple of years later. … As for being a gang member, [his mother] had a hard time believing it: “As far as I know, he had six girlfriends, and then he had his son, and then he had to work, so when did he have time to do this gang stuff?”
The hero of the article, a defense expert witness, gets the author to write:
Like young people anywhere, they could be trying on identities. They might be irresponsible, perhaps unlikable, maybe some were even dangerous, but legally, none of that was relevant.
But getting “ES” tattooed on the back of your head seems like a tad more than Bowiesque trying on of identities. The idea behind head tattoos is to Make a Commitment.
Anyway, the article seems to have been a flop at getting the usual SJW mob worked up online. (The long article only has 105 comments after about a week.) Nobody cares about white guys like Sebourn, even if they have been Hispanically acculturated. Heck, SJWs don’t really care about Hispanics.
I did some research and it seems that Seabourn is caucasian on both sides.
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother’s maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here’s another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.
I also wouldn't be too surprised if the genes controlling IQ also had some unrelated effects on facial structure (we read about people having an 'intelligent face' in old Victorian books all the time, and they say one of the things that let our brains grow bigger was having an underdeveloped jaw), but this is probably not a line of inquiry anyone is going to pursue soon.Replies: @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123, @EvolutionistX
Then again, I've had at least 3 people tell me I look like a serial killer.
There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites. Something about squinty eyes, maybe? Also, a round face on a Caucasian man, especially when combined with squinty eyes, makes him look both stupid and thuggish. In contrast a long face tends to be perceived not only as more handsome, but also as more intelligent and higher class. A man with squinty eyes, a roundish face and rabbitty features who is not stupid is more likely to be called cunning than clever.
Perhaps this is purely an American phenomenon. English people tend to have rather long faces ("horse-faced" is a common epithet to describe toffs); perhaps this association between the original settlers - from whom the old American upper class was largely drawn - and a certain look translated into "long face = handsome, clever and classy".
Meanwhile, Slavs tend to the have the squashed-looking face thing and squinty eyes (presumably a heritage from ancestors from the Steppes), particularly Russians. I don't know if the look is associated with stupidity and lower social status in Eastern Europe, though.
As for "rabbitty features" - I don't mean to attack anyone's ethnic pride, but I think they're associated with the Scots-Irish. This may be a purely southern thing, with the historic prejudice of coastal whites (mostly English stock) against the upland people they considered hillbillies being the cause.Replies: @Steve Sailer
As do these lads from the 'Croxteth Crew' gang in Liverpool, England:
http://metro.co.uk/2008/12/16/the-croxteth-crew-gang-members-who-protected-mercer-247171/
Squinty eyes may be an advantage for those whose nature is such that it helps them that their intentions (where their eyes look) are masked. But by virtue of this nature, like those who keep their hands hidden, those with beady eyes become those who others are naturally suspicious of.
Also I look at him and don't see reason to worry about a direct physical confrontation. He doesn't look intimidating (to me).
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/murder-in-the-family-tyler-blansit-charged-with-the-murder-of-his-mother-sherry-ann-blansit/
Tyler Ryan Blansit
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/update-troy-laferrara-murder-miranda-and-elytte-barbour-pled-guilty-sentenced-to-lwop/
Elytte Barbour
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/psycho-for-love-jacob-lee-boyd-charged-with-killing-his-girlfriend-racheal-jean-wiest-for-refusing-to-have-sex-with-him/
Jacob Lee BoydReplies: @Anonymous
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother’s maiden name is Blendheim."
Just his father & mother? That is hardly enough to say he's not mixed.
He sure doesn't look 'white'. Rather George Zimmerman looking
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1520944.1384804227!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/zimmerman-1-1118.jpg
https://tribfox40.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/jesse-sebourn.jpg?w=480
Thanks.
Quinones retired from the LA times last year to write a book about middle and working class people using heroin. He had an op ed on the same gang decline theme recently
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0208-quinones-parks-gangs-20150208-story.html
Someone wrote a book about this and how being bad at school can increse fecundy.
ARTIST: Julie Brown
TITLE: I Like Them Big and Stupid
When I need somethin' to help me unwind
I find a six foot baby with a one track mind
Smart guys are nowhere, they make demands
Give me a moron with talented hands
I go bar-hopping and they say last call
I start shopping for a Neanderthal
The bigger they come the harder I fall
In love 'til we're done then they're out in the hall
{Refrain}
I like 'em big and stupid
I like 'em big and real dumb
I like 'em big and stupid
What kind of guy does a lot for me
A Superman with a lobotomy
My fathers outa Harvard
My brothers outa Yale
But the guy I took home last night
Just got outa jail
The way he grabbed and threw me, ooh it really got me hot
But the way he growled and bit me, I hope he had his shots
The bigger they are the harder they'll work
I got a soft spot for a good lookin' jerk
{Refrain}
I met a guy, who drives a truck
He can't tell time but he sure can drive
I asked his name and he had to think
Could I have found the missing link
He's so stupid you know what he said
Well I forgot what he said, 'cause it was so stupid
The bigger they come the harder I fall
In love 'til we're done then they're out in the hall
{Refrain}
I like 'em big and real dumb
I like 'em big and
As a bonus comment I came across this remarkable comment yesterday in the London Telegraph. It is rare than one comes across such a well written but totally off the wall remark as this man's. Enjoy.
The top Jesuits who run the world for the past 3000 years are
Uzbeks mostly, there are Tajiks who were put in a breeding program and converted to satanic Judaism which is not Judaism, its just plain satanic. I have studied, the Central Asian DNA, compared it to European DNA etc etc. This is correct according to DNA studies. It is very complex because there were equestrian
nomads who wandered from the Pacific to the Atlantic back and forth for thousands of years. When the Parthian empire collapsed, Iranian tribal people (Zoroastrian Mithra worshippers) who were the elite and moved on from eastern Turkey to Italy and among them were prominent families like the Farnese family (Fidel Castro is an Italian Duke and probably Hapsburg Spanish Prince), Pahlavicini, GIggi, Borgia, Aldobrandini, etc. The Farnese family started the
key 12 Etruscan cities – and I knew the Etruscans were Iranian from the metal sculptures of lions etc. and Mithra themes throughout their empire
Blind people get sharper senses, stupid people become more aggressive and generally obnoxious that a certain class of female confuses this idiot pugnacity with strength and being a strong family protector much to their chagrin.
How can anyone be dumb enough to tattoo their gang affiliation on their face?
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
Higher testosterone maybe? Unless you’re born high enough you can go for an investment banking job, more man-juice is a definite disadvantage for most office jobs, where you have to follow orders and lingering too long on a pretty girl’s shirt can lead to a harassment suit.
I also wouldn’t be too surprised if the genes controlling IQ also had some unrelated effects on facial structure (we read about people having an ‘intelligent face’ in old Victorian books all the time, and they say one of the things that let our brains grow bigger was having an underdeveloped jaw), but this is probably not a line of inquiry anyone is going to pursue soon.
Higher IQ requires longer childhood to develop. Lower IQ matures faster, probably leading to greater gender dimorphism in fast-developers than slow-developers.
Smart people and dumb people are genetically distinct.
Yeah, no charisma there.
Blacks, gays/trannies even animals get more SJW points than low class White guys or mestizoish Latinos.
A black guy on death row will even get Frauleins in Germany writing love letters to him. A Garcia in Cali, not so much.
Just another example of how unequal educational opportunities lead to unequal life outcomes.
This comes across as more of the usual strange immigration triumphalism: “see, we can have massive immigration as long as law enforcement takes extraordinary measures and spends massive amounts of resources on all this new lifestyle vibrancy we have imported into the country. We could have bred more of the natives, but that is no fun. We need these projects.”
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
Ex-convicts and frequent jailbirds do have a certain look that a person can spot.
I also wouldn't be too surprised if the genes controlling IQ also had some unrelated effects on facial structure (we read about people having an 'intelligent face' in old Victorian books all the time, and they say one of the things that let our brains grow bigger was having an underdeveloped jaw), but this is probably not a line of inquiry anyone is going to pursue soon.Replies: @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123, @EvolutionistX
Likely a combination of factors. Scrunched up face (testosterone), dull look in the eyes (low IQ), general facial characteristics (mild foetal alcohol syndrome). They never had a chance.
I also wouldn't be too surprised if the genes controlling IQ also had some unrelated effects on facial structure (we read about people having an 'intelligent face' in old Victorian books all the time, and they say one of the things that let our brains grow bigger was having an underdeveloped jaw), but this is probably not a line of inquiry anyone is going to pursue soon.Replies: @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123, @EvolutionistX
I wouldn’t necessarily say he looks high testosterone. More that he looks violent and thuggish. In comparison, lots of fire fighters have high testosterone and tough faces, but they don’t exhibit that thuggish look.
I’ve seen a lot of underclass white guys who looked like Seabourn. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some underclass white Anglo ethnic group from which much of the American white underclass springs from. Men with Seabourn’s face are scarce in places like Seattle and San Francisco, but all over the place in places like Cincinnati and Cleveland.
Interesting observation about genes have an affect on appearance.
I know that we human beings have evolved the ability to look at people and detect their personalities and intentions. I suppose we might have a sophisticated enough radar that we can look at guys like Seabourn and tell that we need to be afraid of them.
A guy like this (link below) exhibits toughness and lots of testosterone, but there’s something honest and trustworthy about his face.
http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2011/09/trial-by-fire-i-was-an-fdny-rookie-on-sept-11/
It's the roided-up version of this squinty look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
Underclass white ethnic group? I'd joke and say the Irish (I'm an Easterner) back in the day--but your Ohio reference makes me think the brawlers there are German. (Ohio is wonderfully endowed with schnitzel places.) I'd guess there's probably some physiologic correlate of low impulse control plus testosterone that you're seeing. It might even differ from nationality to nationality.Replies: @advancedatheist, @EvolutionistX, @JohnnyWalker123
SFG says:I'll vouch for this. Columbus has a slight edge on German restaurants, but Cincinnati has the better Oktoberfest. Ohio had a large influx of Appalachians in the first half of the 20th century, so that distinctive "Ohio white thug" look may be primarily an admixture of German and Scottish ancestry to the pre-existing Anglo-Saxon stock. Get HBD Chick on the case, and we'll get this hammered out before lunch.
On-topic, I think facial expressions do a lot to soften or harden someone's features, and you can't really get that from a picture. You have to see a movie and watch how he expresses himself. You can glean a lot of information, like effeminacy.Replies: @Rob McX
The kingpin theory turned out to be a disaster on the East Coast. In the 70’s and 80’s, the heroin trade in most cities was run by a single gang. The TV show The Wire is based on the life of Peanut King, who was more interesting than the people portrayed in the show. DC, Baltimore, Philly, Atlantic City, New York all had large scale, sophisticated and hierarchical drug gangs dominating the city’s crime.
Then the Feds and locals started taking down these organizations sending the leaders away for life. Instead of the gangs dying, they splintered into a million fragments. The crack epidemic helped a lot too. Heroin users are a bit more discerning compared to crack users so the distribution system for heroin requires more coordination and intelligence. Crack let corner boys get in the game.
Rounding up gangsters wholesale is already having an impact on gang behavior. The more sophisticated operations don’t have their drug carriers dressed as homies. Instead they go preppy with khakis, boat shoes and collared shirts. The assumption is that white people will be so happy to see well behaved young black males they will assume the best.
Interesting fact here is that shipping the gangsters to jails where their people cannot reach them probably has the most benefit. It’s why I think we need to reconsider the use of prison colonies. On the East Coast, the jails are run by black gangs like the BGF. They do so through support of people on the streets and the prison guards. Move the prisons to an island or a compound in Alaska and that changes.
“see, we can have massive immigration as long as law enforcement takes extraordinary measures and spends massive amounts of resources on all this new lifestyle vibrancy we have imported into the country.”
The higher criminality of NAMs demands a dramatically more authoritarian government than European-Americans are accustomed to or inclined to desire – and that doesn’t count all of the limits on our freedom our government adopts in order to fight “racism.” The US has changed dramatically as a result of the massive influx of immigrants, and will continue to do so, and most of this change will be subtractive – the loss of freedoms, customs, etc. – rather than additive.
They keep telling us that multiculturalism will be a blessing to us via all the new customs and folkways we’ll be exposed to – right before they tell us all of the things we can’t do anymore for the sake of not offending the new arrivals
Plus, they keep telling us about all the money left on the table unless we import the unspecified number of GDP gurus that can't wait to come here and make us all that money.
Meanwhile, our GDP shrank in the first quarter of this year. This isn't even about facts and evidence anymore; this is just kool-aid drinking.
Becoming a father despite having an IQ of 70: Idiocracy at work!
OT, but I’m a bit shocked that Steve hasn’t addressed the latest kerfuffle that is the continued dominance of Indian-Americans at the National Spelling Bee. In largd part, this dominance reflects the fact that most Americans, including the intelligent ones, couldn’t give two shits about spelling bees – certainly not to the extent to bother spending hundreds if not thousands of hours in pursuit of victory. But Time had an interesting article on the phenomenon with this little gem: “Part of why you’re seeing their success on the rise is they’re in constant preparation mode for these various academic competitions. And there are several competitions that are exclusively for children of South Asian parentage.”
Got that? So a handful of Americans are nasty racists for insinuating on Twitter and elsewhere that Indian spelling bee winners aren’t fully American. Meanwhile the targets of their racism are prepping their kids in competitions in which non-Indians aren’t allowed – in a totally non-racist manner, of course.
From the NPR story during breakfast, the contestants had seen all of the words multiple times in their preparation.
“The point of the NYT article is to get us worked up over the prosecution’s use of ‘gang-enhancement’ to boost the maximum sentence possible from 15 years to 50 years.”
The New York Times will never say it, but the American Founding Fathers (yes, they were men) said it many times in many different ways:
A free society is only possible with a civilized population.
U.S. government policy of importing barbarian thugs from every third-world sh*thole on the planet dovetails nicely with its policy of repudiating the Constitution and reducing Americans to slavery.
In the words of a dead white male (Patrick Henry):
Having a 70 IQ doesn’t seem to have hurt him with the ladies
ARTIST: Julie Brown
TITLE: I Like Them Big and Stupid
When I need somethin’ to help me unwind
I find a six foot baby with a one track mind
Smart guys are nowhere, they make demands
Give me a moron with talented hands
I go bar-hopping and they say last call
I start shopping for a Neanderthal
The bigger they come the harder I fall
In love ’til we’re done then they’re out in the hall
{Refrain}
I like ’em big and stupid
I like ’em big and real dumb
I like ’em big and stupid
What kind of guy does a lot for me
A Superman with a lobotomy
My fathers outa Harvard
My brothers outa Yale
But the guy I took home last night
Just got outa jail
The way he grabbed and threw me, ooh it really got me hot
But the way he growled and bit me, I hope he had his shots
The bigger they are the harder they’ll work
I got a soft spot for a good lookin’ jerk
{Refrain}
I met a guy, who drives a truck
He can’t tell time but he sure can drive
I asked his name and he had to think
Could I have found the missing link
He’s so stupid you know what he said
Well I forgot what he said, ’cause it was so stupid
The bigger they come the harder I fall
In love ’til we’re done then they’re out in the hall
{Refrain}
I like ’em big and real dumb
I like ’em big and
There’s an article about prison gangs somewhere by a white prisoner who notes that the difference between white and non-white prison gangs is that whites only join them for protection when they’re locked up, whereas the vast majority of black and Hispanic inmates were already in the gangs before they were ever incarcerated.
What have you been doing at American Renaissance, Mr. McX? Don't you know it advocates for white supremacy?Replies: @Rob McX
‘I’ve seen a lot of underclass white guys who looked like Seabourn.’
It’s the roided-up version of this squinty look:
The Mexican Mafia had a ruse where they claimed they were going to try and intervene to end all the drive-bys going on between Hispanic gangs over drug turf. In actuality, they instituted a street tax on the gangs with the added benefit of protection by La Eme if they go to prison.
The idea of taking down everyone in the gang at once has an analogue in the military’s ideas about network warfare. The idea is to “pulse” the network and wipe out some critical percentage of it in one fell swoop. This makes it more difficult for the target social network to repair itself and to conduct the operations it once did.
It’s probably testosterone plus something else–poor impulse control? And that has an effect on the face? It’d be interesting to go back through old physiognomy texts and see if there’s anything there we’ve forgotten.
Underclass white ethnic group? I’d joke and say the Irish (I’m an Easterner) back in the day–but your Ohio reference makes me think the brawlers there are German. (Ohio is wonderfully endowed with schnitzel places.) I’d guess there’s probably some physiologic correlate of low impulse control plus testosterone that you’re seeing. It might even differ from nationality to nationality.
Lots of cities in Ohio (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Youngstown, Akron) and other rust belt areas have substantial numbers of "hillbilly ghettos." This Seabourn guy would fit right in. It does seem that the whites in those ghettos are disproportionately of Southern origin.
Wasn’t the original purpose of the RICO statute to provide police with the means of dismantling organized crime gangs populated by ethnic immigrants? As its name not-accidentally suggests?
That goes without saying.
I dunno. Seems to me that this “expert hired by the defense ” has a pretty strong motivation to provide as low an estimate as possible for Sebourn’s IQ.White Americans with IQs of 70, in my experience, tend to be funny looking.We are, after all, talking about 2 SDs below the White American mean.I think that his IQ is probably somewhere around 85, the dull-normal range for White Americans.
Even when this guy was in school, he probably didn't have much patience for multi-hour fill-in-the-bubble sessions.Replies: @sceptic, @Nathan Wartooth
Universal Pre-K now, Universal Pre-K tomorrow, Universal Pre-K forever!
1. Anyone is allowed in National Spelling Bee. There is no exclusion. It’s 100% objective and results driven.
2. I bet (like many of those talking about South “Asians”), you don’t even know the difference between Aryan and Dravidian (500 million or so of each in India).
3. A lot of these kids are Tamil Brahmin, mostly upper class Dravidian. (The Aryans are actually smarter but less represented in the USA immigrant community).
I've had some Gudjaratis admit that Tamils could run circles around other Indians. Is there a truly credible study that breaks it down regionally?
its
Hey, despite their cretinism, the Sebourn family have inherited very good looks. No wonder they are popular with the local Mexicans, who are heavily deficient in this department. Jesse’s sister must be quite the catch for some local Lothario who is used to steatopygic Amerindian chicks with greasy hair and stretch marks on their breasts. It’s also nice to have a girlfriend who can reach the tequila on the third shelf of the liquor store.
If the Sebourns, frère et soeur, had grown up in 1960’s Queens, NY, frère could have made a good living by working on the back of a garbage truck or driving a city snow plough, and soeur could have married a bricklayer with a union card. Life would have been much better for the both of them.
In most places white street gangs are defunct and no longer exist. Biker gangs and various mafias are the exception but they generally are older and stay out of sight, the Texas brouhaha notwithstanding. The homicide rates of the cities are mostly due to the black-brown gangbangers that live there. Chicago has been estimated to have between 50,000-100,000 gang members depending on which expert you listen to. Any mass roundup of gangbangers would be a sweep of younger black-brown males and would unmistakably be of a racial nature. A third to half of Chicago’s black males under 40 might have to be carted off. Estimates are that there’s 1.5-2 million nationwide. Locking up a few hundred here and there just scratches the surface. A gulag system might have to be created to receive that many black-brown prisoners along with the occasional white. A lot of children are initiated into the gang life by their parents and are 3rd-4th generation members so those are the replacement seedlings.
I live near Modesto and never even noticed this case.
Hispanics dominate the gang scene here. The blacks have theirs down in Fresno and a bit in Stockton (occasionally black gang members from the East Bay take a road trip out this way to rob stores/banks and dump bodies in the orchards) but the Surenos and Nortanos are the favorite teams.
This Sebourn guy may be genetically white, but he’s lumpenprole. White trash like him get swept into whatever the prevailing monkeyshines of the day. In the movie American Graffiti, he would have been one of the greaser characters attempting to steal quarters out of the pin-ball machines. Now, the Section-8 neighborhood he grew up in is filled with the children of illegals, so he hangs with them.
Never truly off topic: The only point she misses is the dishonesty/hypocrisy associated with leftist concern for the environment and mass third-world immigration and population.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/31/ann-coulter-elites-conspire-against-the-middle-class/
The higher criminality of NAMs demands a dramatically more authoritarian government than European-Americans are accustomed to or inclined to desire - and that doesn't count all of the limits on our freedom our government adopts in order to fight "racism." The US has changed dramatically as a result of the massive influx of immigrants, and will continue to do so, and most of this change will be subtractive - the loss of freedoms, customs, etc. - rather than additive.
They keep telling us that multiculturalism will be a blessing to us via all the new customs and folkways we'll be exposed to - right before they tell us all of the things we can't do anymore for the sake of not offending the new arrivalsReplies: @bomag
They keep telling us that multiculturalism will be a blessing to us via all the new customs and folkways we’ll be exposed to – right before they tell us all of the things we can’t do anymore for the sake of not offending the new arrivals
Plus, they keep telling us about all the money left on the table unless we import the unspecified number of GDP gurus that can’t wait to come here and make us all that money.
Meanwhile, our GDP shrank in the first quarter of this year. This isn’t even about facts and evidence anymore; this is just kool-aid drinking.
I’d rather see the RICO statute enforced against the Fed, DTCC and their owners and controllers than these bullshit little gangs.
Yes the demands of modern civilization and our biological clocks seem wildly out of synch. I saw that at least one Japanese city is now offering young women free egg removal and storage so they can bear children later in life. I don’t know the biological implications ( if any) for using in vitro fertilization on decade old eggs but with Japan facing a demographic disaster ( more than a quarter of the population is now 65 or older) IVF and or using surrogate mothers maybe the only way an economically advanced population will be able to sustain its population without heavy immigration or relying on underclass parents to do all the ‘breeding.
As a bonus comment I came across this remarkable comment yesterday in the London Telegraph. It is rare than one comes across such a well written but totally off the wall remark as this man’s. Enjoy.
The top Jesuits who run the world for the past 3000 years are
Uzbeks mostly, there are Tajiks who were put in a breeding program and converted to satanic Judaism which is not Judaism, its just plain satanic. I have studied, the Central Asian DNA, compared it to European DNA etc etc. This is correct according to DNA studies. It is very complex because there were equestrian
nomads who wandered from the Pacific to the Atlantic back and forth for thousands of years. When the Parthian empire collapsed, Iranian tribal people (Zoroastrian Mithra worshippers) who were the elite and moved on from eastern Turkey to Italy and among them were prominent families like the Farnese family (Fidel Castro is an Italian Duke and probably Hapsburg Spanish Prince), Pahlavicini, GIggi, Borgia, Aldobrandini, etc. The Farnese family started the
key 12 Etruscan cities – and I knew the Etruscans were Iranian from the metal sculptures of lions etc. and Mithra themes throughout their empire
Got that? So a handful of Americans are nasty racists for insinuating on Twitter and elsewhere that Indian spelling bee winners aren't fully American. Meanwhile the targets of their racism are prepping their kids in competitions in which non-Indians aren't allowed - in a totally non-racist manner, of course.Replies: @bomag
National Spelling Bee…Part of why you’re seeing their success on the rise is they’re in constant preparation mode for these various academic competitions.
From the NPR story during breakfast, the contestants had seen all of the words multiple times in their preparation.
“Here, son, take this test, if you flunk it they might letcha off easy.”
Even when this guy was in school, he probably didn’t have much patience for multi-hour fill-in-the-bubble sessions.
Fire that "expert"!
Had to post off topic but Lake Forest school district is trying to pull a fast one by hiring a Oak Park River Forest administrator who thinks honors classes are racist. They scheduled a hearing at 7 AM after Memoria Day and scheduled the next one during the eighth grade graduation.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/news/ct-lns-lake-forest-high-meeting-st-0525-20150524-story.html
Underclass white ethnic group? I'd joke and say the Irish (I'm an Easterner) back in the day--but your Ohio reference makes me think the brawlers there are German. (Ohio is wonderfully endowed with schnitzel places.) I'd guess there's probably some physiologic correlate of low impulse control plus testosterone that you're seeing. It might even differ from nationality to nationality.Replies: @advancedatheist, @EvolutionistX, @JohnnyWalker123
The Scots-Irish also settled in significant numbers in Ohio, and that tribe has a reputation for producing its share of rough-edged men.
When will researchers find that white crime rates tend to be overestimated and overcounted, while the opposite is true for hispanics?
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
There’s a certain type of white guy that ends up involved in petty crime. In high school, he’s obsessed with cars and other status items. Every other conversation is about how tough he is and fights he was almost in. When you look at his pics, he never smiles, even his poses with his girlfriend look like a mugshot. I don’t know if its just the pose, but they never seem to have kind eyes.
Then again, I’ve had at least 3 people tell me I look like a serial killer.
Fantasy racist episodes seem so much like those who claim to witness miracles or religious figures.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/30/us/united-flight-muslim-chaplain/index.html
Even when this guy was in school, he probably didn't have much patience for multi-hour fill-in-the-bubble sessions.Replies: @sceptic, @Nathan Wartooth
I have tested one hundred I.Q. points higher than this fellow, and I can’t remember my telephone number either (my house doesn’t have a number).
Fire that “expert”!
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
My grandmother, who was a Southerner, called it “rabbitty features”.
There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites. Something about squinty eyes, maybe? Also, a round face on a Caucasian man, especially when combined with squinty eyes, makes him look both stupid and thuggish. In contrast a long face tends to be perceived not only as more handsome, but also as more intelligent and higher class. A man with squinty eyes, a roundish face and rabbitty features who is not stupid is more likely to be called cunning than clever.
Perhaps this is purely an American phenomenon. English people tend to have rather long faces (“horse-faced” is a common epithet to describe toffs); perhaps this association between the original settlers – from whom the old American upper class was largely drawn – and a certain look translated into “long face = handsome, clever and classy”.
Meanwhile, Slavs tend to the have the squashed-looking face thing and squinty eyes (presumably a heritage from ancestors from the Steppes), particularly Russians. I don’t know if the look is associated with stupidity and lower social status in Eastern Europe, though.
As for “rabbitty features” – I don’t mean to attack anyone’s ethnic pride, but I think they’re associated with the Scots-Irish. This may be a purely southern thing, with the historic prejudice of coastal whites (mostly English stock) against the upland people they considered hillbillies being the cause.
Should whites ever find the need to organize for self-protection, these RICO tactics will be used against them.
Is it now regarded as an offensive ethnic slur to refer to a lower-class white criminal in California as an “Okie”?
We could use some German-American gang-bangers, if you ask me. Well-dressed blond men blaring Mozart from their modified Volkswagens, using proper grammar and addressing their elders politely, replacing graffiti and those godawful murals with something fit to look at, and making communists afraid to walk the streets. Bring back Iowa-by-the-Sea!
Besides, modern German youth culture isn't into Mozart and Leibniz. Thugs gonna thug...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6kRMM0IuQReplies: @JohnnyWalker123
Even when this guy was in school, he probably didn't have much patience for multi-hour fill-in-the-bubble sessions.Replies: @sceptic, @Nathan Wartooth
I doubt they based his IQ off of a test. It sounds like it was estimated. So it was probably based off of school GPA, the fact that he joined a gang, etc.
I can believe that Sebourn has an IQ of 70. He doesn’t look “all there” to me.
However, instead of talking about putting Sebourn in lockup (practically to protect himself), perhaps we should be engaging some other aspects of draconian punishment such as the one handed down to Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, who just got a life sentence with no possibility of parole, or the new law proposed in Israel to give mandatory sentences of 10 to 20 years to anyone throwing stones at the IDF.
I thought we wanted to move away from Incarceration World. Looks like we are headed to Incarceration and Intimidation World.
http://www.amren.com/news/2010/05/integration_at/
What have you been doing at American Renaissance, Mr. McX? Don’t you know it advocates for white supremacy?
Seabourn’s sister isn’t bad-looking and, ahem, healthy. They both seem to have squinty eyes. I don’t know, but them Seabourns look like they might have a touch of Native American decent?
OT: iSteve, have you seen this? Unarmed college kid on shrooms gets shot dead in Woodland Hills. A national circuit debater, no less.
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/29197579/man-killed-in-long-beach-police-shooting-idd-as-nationally-ranked-debater
This part makes me think he might have had a history of mental disorder, but isn’t that usually the case?
“Kamiran Dadah, 20, who was with Feras the night he was shot, told the Press-Telegram the young man was a 2013 graduate of El Camino Real Charter High School in Woodland Hills and had attended Moorpark College in Ventura County, where he earned a 3.9 GPA.
Feras chose to transfer to Long Beach State to save money after being accepted into both UCLA and UC Berkeley, Dadah told the newspaper.”
“Indeed, the article’s focus on a white guy accused of being part of a Hispanic gang (a not uncommon phenomenon — there are so few white street gangs left that white guys who like the criminal life often join Latin gangs)”
If you are a WASP who likes the criminal life, there are really are no gangs out there for people of your ethnicity. This is not a problem though for White guys who have a Russian surname, or an Albanian surname, or an Armenian surname, or an Italian surname and like the criminal life as there are gangs out there that cater specifically to those ethnic groups. White gangsterism is overwhelmingly of Non Anglo Saxon Protestant stock.
“The first of what will surely be a blizzard of federal civil rights lawsuits was filed this morning against the city of Waco and McLennan County, Texas.”
“Scimitar Motorcycle Club member Matthew Alan Clendennen (above) is also suing Waco police officer Manuel Chavez, who signed the criminal complaint against Clendennen and up to 177 other arrestees. Chavez’ criminal complaint states that “I hereby state upon my oath that I have reason to believe and do believe that heretofore, and before making and filing of this complaint, that on or about May 17, 2015 in McLennan County, Texas, the said Clendennen, Matthew Alan did then and there, as a member of a criminal street gang, commit or conspire to commit murder, capital murder, or aggravated assault against the laws of the State.”
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/30/first-waco-twin-peaks-wrongful-arrest-lawsuit-filed/
http://www.agingrebel.com/12944
What have you been doing at American Renaissance, Mr. McX? Don't you know it advocates for white supremacy?Replies: @Rob McX
I wasn’t embarrassed to reveal the source of my information! It’s just that there are five or six excellent articles on the Amren site dealing with US prisons from a racial perspective, and I couldn’t remember which of them gave this fact about gang membership.
One of the advantage of reading extremists is they will occasionally go to bat for people nobody else will.
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
“Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.”
As do these lads from the ‘Croxteth Crew’ gang in Liverpool, England:
http://metro.co.uk/2008/12/16/the-croxteth-crew-gang-members-who-protected-mercer-247171/
I also wouldn't be too surprised if the genes controlling IQ also had some unrelated effects on facial structure (we read about people having an 'intelligent face' in old Victorian books all the time, and they say one of the things that let our brains grow bigger was having an underdeveloped jaw), but this is probably not a line of inquiry anyone is going to pursue soon.Replies: @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123, @EvolutionistX
https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/increased-gender-dimorphism-lower-iq/
Higher IQ requires longer childhood to develop. Lower IQ matures faster, probably leading to greater gender dimorphism in fast-developers than slow-developers.
Smart people and dumb people are genetically distinct.
“When the creation of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security was announced, Marvin Minsky, one of Turing’s leading disciples, responded that “what we need is a Department of Homeland Arithmetic.” He was right. This sounds depressing. What do we have to do, turn all the computers off? No, we just need to turn off the secrecy, and conduct our data collection and data mining in the open, where it belongs. Ordinary citizens can tell the difference between regular police and secret police, and should be trusted to make the choice.
Consider the use of security cameras, for example in the UK. They are ubiquitous, visible, and used openly by the police under rules that have been defined in open court. Similarly, reasonable people might well support the maintenance of a global Internet memory buffer for law enforcement purposes, with access to the repository controlled under open rules by an open court.
There will always be illicit spying, but it should be kept within reasonable bounds. It is disturbing if laws had to be broken to conduct the PRISM surveillance program, but, if laws didn’t have to be broken, that’s worse. Edward Snowden has brought this matter before the public, and the path that led from Corona to Google Earth, through Silicon Valley, demonstrates that a secret program can be brought into the open, to the benefit of all, without necessarily being brought to a halt.”
http://edge.org/conversation/nsa-the-decision-problem
If we don’t keep breaking laws we won’t need new laws.
Underclass white ethnic group? I'd joke and say the Irish (I'm an Easterner) back in the day--but your Ohio reference makes me think the brawlers there are German. (Ohio is wonderfully endowed with schnitzel places.) I'd guess there's probably some physiologic correlate of low impulse control plus testosterone that you're seeing. It might even differ from nationality to nationality.Replies: @advancedatheist, @EvolutionistX, @JohnnyWalker123
Germans are the upperclass in Ohio; the lowerclass is Irish, Scots-Irish, Borderland Scots, etc.
I had the impression German-Americans were sort of solidly upper-middle types--boring, dependable, all the bourgeois virtues. I didn't realize the white 'hood rats' were Irish, Scots, or some combination thereof.Replies: @Jefferson
Who else wants to write about the welfare of white prisoners?
One of the advantage of reading extremists is they will occasionally go to bat for people nobody else will.
“Researchers have found that white gang membership tends to be underestimated and undercounted, while the opposite is true for black and Latino youth.”
More like the opposite, White gang membership tends to be overestimated and over counted while Hispanic gang membership tends to be underestimated and under counted because all of the Vato Cholo gang bangers get classified as “White” by law enforcement even if they look like that Brown Aztec John Quinones from ABC’s “What Would You Do?”.
However, instead of talking about putting Sebourn in lockup (practically to protect himself), perhaps we should be engaging some other aspects of draconian punishment such as the one handed down to Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, who just got a life sentence with no possibility of parole, or the new law proposed in Israel to give mandatory sentences of 10 to 20 years to anyone throwing stones at the IDF.
I thought we wanted to move away from Incarceration World. Looks like we are headed to Incarceration and Intimidation World.Replies: @SFG
Ulbricht made a website used to get around the feds. They’re really, really angry about that.
Israel’s practically a police state for Palestinians at this point. Another reason they ought to deport the settlers back into Israel and give Palestine independence. Two states, two peoples.
The irony is that Israel’s control of the US Congress prevents the only force that could actually shut down the occupation and save the country over the long term, so they are digging their own graves. Eventually there will be more Palestinians than Jews, they will want equal rights, they will eventually get them, by law or by war, and then they will exterminate the Jews.
OTOH, we might get some top-notch technical talent as the country collapses. Hey, it got us the Bomb.
Keeping it real always costs. Like American Blacks, Palestinians go to extreme lengths to keep racial seperateness and avoid assimilation. Successful but at huge cost.
Amusingly he was caught because he spammed Silk Road on theshroomery magic mushroom forum using email accounts he registered under his real name and sought leads for programmers on his real Facebook account.
Seems to be the same in New Zealand, just subbing Maoris for Latinos. Check out this recent photo spread in Vice: http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/portraits-of-new-zealands-mighty-mongrel-mob
Even in Ohio? I did not know that! Thank you!
I had the impression German-Americans were sort of solidly upper-middle types–boring, dependable, all the bourgeois virtues. I didn’t realize the white ‘hood rats’ were Irish, Scots, or some combination thereof.
There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites. Something about squinty eyes, maybe? Also, a round face on a Caucasian man, especially when combined with squinty eyes, makes him look both stupid and thuggish. In contrast a long face tends to be perceived not only as more handsome, but also as more intelligent and higher class. A man with squinty eyes, a roundish face and rabbitty features who is not stupid is more likely to be called cunning than clever.
Perhaps this is purely an American phenomenon. English people tend to have rather long faces ("horse-faced" is a common epithet to describe toffs); perhaps this association between the original settlers - from whom the old American upper class was largely drawn - and a certain look translated into "long face = handsome, clever and classy".
Meanwhile, Slavs tend to the have the squashed-looking face thing and squinty eyes (presumably a heritage from ancestors from the Steppes), particularly Russians. I don't know if the look is associated with stupidity and lower social status in Eastern Europe, though.
As for "rabbitty features" - I don't mean to attack anyone's ethnic pride, but I think they're associated with the Scots-Irish. This may be a purely southern thing, with the historic prejudice of coastal whites (mostly English stock) against the upland people they considered hillbillies being the cause.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Among English soccer stars, Beckham v. Rooney.
It’s an article of faith in the progressive left that whites and blacks commit crimes at the same rate, but that blacks are prosecuted more often. This doesn’t square with the observed facts–people move away from South Central to Thousand Oaks for a reason–but there you go.
I get the impression that the Progressive Left believes the reason why Black areas are dangerous is not because Blacks are committing crimes, it is because the houses and buildings are coming to life like Transformers in these neighborhoods and committing crimes. They believe that if you drop off 25 thousand Compton Blacks into Burbank through Section 8 housing, you will see a zero increase in property and violent crime in Burbank. That is why you see Left Wing comments like Blacks are racially segregated into dangerous neighborhoods. As if you drop off the urban inner city Black underclass into affluent White areas, all of a sudden these Blacks are going to start behaving like Singaporeans and become a Model Minority Nonwhite group who commit very little crime.Replies: @Anonym
Rico was the name of Edward G. Robinson’s Al Capone-like character in pioneering gangster movie talkie “Little Caesar” in 1931.
I had the impression German-Americans were sort of solidly upper-middle types--boring, dependable, all the bourgeois virtues. I didn't realize the white 'hood rats' were Irish, Scots, or some combination thereof.Replies: @Jefferson
“Even in Ohio? I did not know that! Thank you!
I had the impression German-Americans were sort of solidly upper-middle types–boring, dependable, all the bourgeois virtues. I didn’t realize the white ‘hood rats’ were Irish, Scots, or some combination thereof.”
There are no Scotch-Irish Protestant organized crime syndicates in The United States, they do not have their own version of Cosa Nostra. Scotch-Irish Protestant thugs in The United States are pretty much the independent contractors of the criminal world. They are lone wolves like Richard Kuklinski the Polish assassin who mostly worked with criminals who are not of the same ethnic stock as he is. He was an independent contractor, he did not not belong to any Polish organized crime group.
He talks about how by the late 1800's, atomized Anglo criminals could no longer operate in NYC because the organized ethnic mobs would shake them down.
You Can't Win is a fascinating book from an HBD perspective. It depicts a criminal underworld that existed in western North America after the Civil War where NW European cultural values of individualism, reputation based social pecking order and a kind of inverted moral idealism dominated. A totally different criminal under world than that of ethnic organized crime which we are all familiar with from a later era and numerous portrayals in film and literature.
Then the Feds and locals started taking down these organizations sending the leaders away for life. Instead of the gangs dying, they splintered into a million fragments. The crack epidemic helped a lot too. Heroin users are a bit more discerning compared to crack users so the distribution system for heroin requires more coordination and intelligence. Crack let corner boys get in the game.
Rounding up gangsters wholesale is already having an impact on gang behavior. The more sophisticated operations don't have their drug carriers dressed as homies. Instead they go preppy with khakis, boat shoes and collared shirts. The assumption is that white people will be so happy to see well behaved young black males they will assume the best.
Interesting fact here is that shipping the gangsters to jails where their people cannot reach them probably has the most benefit. It's why I think we need to reconsider the use of prison colonies. On the East Coast, the jails are run by black gangs like the BGF. They do so through support of people on the streets and the prison guards. Move the prisons to an island or a compound in Alaska and that changes.Replies: @Steve Sailer
“Move the prisons to an island or a compound in Alaska and that changes.”
Like that Soviet director who made that prison break / runaway train movie in Alaska in the 1980s. Is there really a colossal federal prison in the mountains of Alaska? And maybe there should be?
Anyway, it seems to me that our prison philosophy is due for an update. As I'm sure you know, prisons have become a racket in California. They no longer serve the interests of society. Housing the long term prison population inside industrial cages does not make a lot of sense. Penal colonies would be humane and serve the public interest.
Alternatively, convicts facing life on the the island could join the new foreign legion. If we're going to be the world's cop, we could use the convict army in places like sub-Saharan Africa to fight Ebola and Super AIDS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTdjoA8HeAM
I don't think the courts these days would let us set up some tar paper shacks out at Tule Lake to house a few tens of thousands of prisoners in an open air general population, Stalag Luft 13 style.
Didn’t you see “A History of Violence” with Viggo Mortensen, Ed Harris, and William Hurt as members of the Philadelphia Main Line Mob?
Or did the joke fly over my head?Replies: @Anonymous
That’s the Irish mob. Scotch-Irish are Ulster Scots settled in Ireland and are Protestant rather than Catholic.
Or did the joke fly over my head?
“It’s an article of faith in the progressive left that whites and blacks commit crimes at the same rate, but that blacks are prosecuted more often. This doesn’t square with the observed facts–people move away from South Central to Thousand Oaks for a reason–but there you go.”
I get the impression that the Progressive Left believes the reason why Black areas are dangerous is not because Blacks are committing crimes, it is because the houses and buildings are coming to life like Transformers in these neighborhoods and committing crimes. They believe that if you drop off 25 thousand Compton Blacks into Burbank through Section 8 housing, you will see a zero increase in property and violent crime in Burbank. That is why you see Left Wing comments like Blacks are racially segregated into dangerous neighborhoods. As if you drop off the urban inner city Black underclass into affluent White areas, all of a sudden these Blacks are going to start behaving like Singaporeans and become a Model Minority Nonwhite group who commit very little crime.
We could use some German-American gang-bangers, if you ask me. Well-dressed blond men blaring Mozart from their modified Volkswagens, using proper grammar and addressing their elders politely, replacing graffiti and those godawful murals with something fit to look at, and making communists afraid to walk the streets. Bring back Iowa-by-the-Sea!Replies: @SFG
Uh, German gangs have…other precedents to go by. About 70-80 years old, if you get my drift. I know a lot of you think this is a good idea.
Besides, modern German youth culture isn’t into Mozart and Leibniz. Thugs gonna thug…
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/29197579/man-killed-in-long-beach-police-shooting-idd-as-nationally-ranked-debater
This part makes me think he might have had a history of mental disorder, but isn't that usually the case?
"Kamiran Dadah, 20, who was with Feras the night he was shot, told the Press-Telegram the young man was a 2013 graduate of El Camino Real Charter High School in Woodland Hills and had attended Moorpark College in Ventura County, where he earned a 3.9 GPA.
Feras chose to transfer to Long Beach State to save money after being accepted into both UCLA and UC Berkeley, Dadah told the newspaper."Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @rod1963
I have a friend who was in a Ph.D. program for microbiology in the midwest when he tried ‘shrooms. Doesn’t remember everything, but remembers coming to on the floor with a cop’s foot on his neck. Fortunately, the cop didn’t arrest him, and now he’s a law-abiding father of two.
A. muscarius mushrooms are psychoactive, but produce frightening hallucinations and are very bad for your health. The right mushroom to take, p. cubensis, are a lot of fun if you're a calm, healthy, and smart person, and do not involve the risk of blackout or memory loss. They are also perfectly safe, as the active parts are nearly identical to serotonin and quickly digested by your MAO enzymes.
Why not give the inmates the option of working in a chain gang on an Alaskan fishing ship? Pay them market wages, with two thirds going to compensate their victims, and the other third banked for when they get released or sent to their family members.
Has there ever been a notoriously famous WASP gangster in American history? All of the notoriously famous White gangsters in American history seem to be either Jewish or Catholic. Bugsy Siegel, Lucky Luciano, Al Capone, Mickey Cohen, Henry Hill, Billy The Kid, Sam Giancana, Whitey Bulger, John Gotti, Meyer Lansky, Joey Aiuppa, Richard Kuklinski, Tony Spilotro, etc none of them were of Anglo Saxon Protestant stock.
You have notoriously famous WASP serial killers, but not gangsters. I wonder if organized crime never caught on in WASP culture because WASP culture is too individualistic and organized crime is a group effort where there is no room for individualism.
By the 20th century, most WASPs had moved out of the major cities. Mainly wealthy, upper class WASPs remained and the rest of the urban population was largely non-WASP European immigrant descended.
I read a book about the Valentine Days massacre called "Capone´s American boys". I guess the dark Sicilian considered the whiter midwesterners more "American". The Chicago Italian and Irish gangs used the wild country boys for the worst crimes. He used midwestern farm boys from missouri iowa indiana, not what we consider places to recruit gangster. Or guys from cities like or Kansas City or Omaha, Nebraska. There was a thriving white gang culture in all the midwestern cities that nowadays are as safe as can be. They killed cops and robbed banks and were wild bunch. These were German and Anglo men who were only a few generations removed from wild west intense types. The leader of the Valentine massacre was named Gus Winkler who was murdered by another gangster eventually. Pretty interesting read, and shows that whites were once very willing to be murderous gangbangers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Winkler
http://www.amazon.com/Al-Capone-His-American-Boys/dp/0253009693Replies: @syonredux
2. I bet (like many of those talking about South "Asians"), you don't even know the difference between Aryan and Dravidian (500 million or so of each in India).
3. A lot of these kids are Tamil Brahmin, mostly upper class Dravidian. (The Aryans are actually smarter but less represented in the USA immigrant community).Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
A lot of these kids are Tamil Brahmin, mostly upper class Dravidian. (The Aryans are actually smarter but less represented in the USA immigrant community).
I’ve had some Gudjaratis admit that Tamils could run circles around other Indians. Is there a truly credible study that breaks it down regionally?
Rooney is Irish and looks like something out of a Thomas Nast cartoon.
Go to the Irish parts of either city and you will see Rooney lookalikes by the thousands - he is in fact a better looking example of his race than most.
I have a theory: the more intelligent and enterprising Irish went to Australia, Canada and the United States; the less so went to London, and the least simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow. There they have remained, stewing in the juices of their stupidity, ignorance, and historic grievances.
Horrifyingly, those in Glasgow are now in a position to ruin Scotland as much as their cousins have ruined Ireland itself.
Democracy in action, once again.Replies: @Anonymous, @Ivy
Or did the joke fly over my head?Replies: @Anonymous
Yes, I think they were the Irish mob in A History of Violence. They don’t play up the Irish angle like in The Departed though, so it might have been easy to miss that they were Irish, but I think it is mentioned or alluded to that they are indeed Irish.
I suppose Bill “The Butcher” Poole, depicted in Scorcese’s Gangs of New York would be an example.
By the 20th century, most WASPs had moved out of the major cities. Mainly wealthy, upper class WASPs remained and the rest of the urban population was largely non-WASP European immigrant descended.
Clyde Barrow (of Bonnie & Clyde)? Pretty Boy Floyd? Baby Face Nelson? John Dillinger? Were they all Catholic?
See being stupid is like being blind, other aspects of their bodies compensate for the disability.
Blind people get sharper senses, stupid people become more aggressive and generally obnoxious that a certain class of female confuses this idiot pugnacity with strength and being a strong family protector much to their chagrin.
I noticed the hot sister too. I wonder if girls would think she looks “not right” too, and we’re just blinded by her boobs.
“Clyde Barrow (of Bonnie & Clyde)? Pretty Boy Floyd? Baby Face Nelson? John Dillinger? Were they all Catholic?”
WASPs are still vastly underrepresented among White gangsters. That is why most people tend to only think of the Irish, Russians, and Italians when the subject of White organized crime comes up. Armenians are also brought up for those who live in the Los Angeles metropolitan area.
The motherland of England never created their own version of Cosa Nostra. So there was never a strong organized crime element among the English diaspora descendents in North America, New Zealand, and Australia.
The ethnic origins of US gangsters multiplied dramatically during the Depression era, having been hitherto dominated by Italians, Irish and Jews, but this diversity didn’t endure. Hard times seem to have driven people who would otherwise have been law-abiding to crime, but only temporarily. Dillinger was of German descent. Baby Face Nelson’s ancestors were Belgian. There seem to have been quite a few WASP gangsters at that time, but the only well-known ones I can see on this list are the Barker family.
Americans who are either of mostly or entirely English ancestry that are violent psychopaths, on average they seem to prefer to want to become serial killers instead of gangsters.
The Dixie Mafia of Mississippi, Tennessee, and Louisiana.
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
Forehead to hairline is about an inch and a half. Like a thug I knew in high school who was also stupid and thuggish. Low cranial volume would suggest low IQ.
Squinty eyes may be an advantage for those whose nature is such that it helps them that their intentions (where their eyes look) are masked. But by virtue of this nature, like those who keep their hands hidden, those with beady eyes become those who others are naturally suspicious of.
Also I look at him and don’t see reason to worry about a direct physical confrontation. He doesn’t look intimidating (to me).
I have vague recollections of that movie, but I’m probably confusing it with one staring John Voight. I don’t think that was directed by Soviets.
Anyway, it seems to me that our prison philosophy is due for an update. As I’m sure you know, prisons have become a racket in California. They no longer serve the interests of society. Housing the long term prison population inside industrial cages does not make a lot of sense. Penal colonies would be humane and serve the public interest.
Alternatively, convicts facing life on the the island could join the new foreign legion. If we’re going to be the world’s cop, we could use the convict army in places like sub-Saharan Africa to fight Ebola and Super AIDS.
Unless you count the KKK as a WASP organized crime group. But I would not put David Duke in the same category as a John Gotti. Nobody joins the KKK because they think they are going to make a shit load of money. The KKK is not a organized crime group in the traditional sense of the word.
Organized crime is driven by greed/profit/capitalism, the KKK is driven by racial ideology. You do not see any KKK members living a rich playboy lifestyle driving a Mercedes Benz and living in a McMansion. KKK members usually do not have a pot to piss in because they are so damn broke. KKK members usually just as equally underclass as urban inner city Blacks.
Much more chaotic than Italian, Jewish, or Russian mobs.
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/29197579/man-killed-in-long-beach-police-shooting-idd-as-nationally-ranked-debater
This part makes me think he might have had a history of mental disorder, but isn't that usually the case?
"Kamiran Dadah, 20, who was with Feras the night he was shot, told the Press-Telegram the young man was a 2013 graduate of El Camino Real Charter High School in Woodland Hills and had attended Moorpark College in Ventura County, where he earned a 3.9 GPA.
Feras chose to transfer to Long Beach State to save money after being accepted into both UCLA and UC Berkeley, Dadah told the newspaper."Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @rod1963
Mental disorders I think it’s more likely a lack of a personality, combined with little or no people skills. So they come off weird or nutty. Remember that guy who shot up the theater. He was a brain and batshit crazy to boot for the last 10 years before he did his thing. Yet no one around him thought he was any crazier than normal(his shrink, and teacher excepted) before he went off.
That’s the problem with brains, when they really go unhinged it’s hard to tell since they’re kinda of odd to begin with.
I’ve always thought the geeks I’ve known could have used a stint in the Marine Corps reserve. At least there they wouldn’t be coddled and would be forced man up and to get a bit of confidence, guts and a personality. It would also weed out the weaker ones who then can be put in a special needs camp or something away from the general populace.
Rooney is not Irish – he is Liverpudlian Irish. The only group lower than that in the British Isles is Glaswegian Irish.
Go to the Irish parts of either city and you will see Rooney lookalikes by the thousands – he is in fact a better looking example of his race than most.
I have a theory: the more intelligent and enterprising Irish went to Australia, Canada and the United States; the less so went to London, and the least simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow. There they have remained, stewing in the juices of their stupidity, ignorance, and historic grievances.
Horrifyingly, those in Glasgow are now in a position to ruin Scotland as much as their cousins have ruined Ireland itself.
Democracy in action, once again.
See Hughes book
Thankfully, I’m an Italian-American. And thank you for your support, Senator Geary.
I get the impression that the Progressive Left believes the reason why Black areas are dangerous is not because Blacks are committing crimes, it is because the houses and buildings are coming to life like Transformers in these neighborhoods and committing crimes. They believe that if you drop off 25 thousand Compton Blacks into Burbank through Section 8 housing, you will see a zero increase in property and violent crime in Burbank. That is why you see Left Wing comments like Blacks are racially segregated into dangerous neighborhoods. As if you drop off the urban inner city Black underclass into affluent White areas, all of a sudden these Blacks are going to start behaving like Singaporeans and become a Model Minority Nonwhite group who commit very little crime.Replies: @Anonym
It would be very telling to show a chronologically animated map of ethnic composition and homicide rate over time in the US. County by county or even on the state level. Split each area in two with a different color to indicate the different things being measured, with gradations being light to dark.
Organized crime is driven by greed/profit/capitalism, the KKK is driven by racial ideology. You do not see any KKK members living a rich playboy lifestyle driving a Mercedes Benz and living in a McMansion. KKK members usually do not have a pot to piss in because they are so damn broke. KKK members usually just as equally underclass as urban inner city Blacks.Replies: @Hare Krishna
http://articles.philly.com/1991-10-07/news/25816647_1_judge-vincent-sherry-dixie-mafia-razor-wire
Much more chaotic than Italian, Jewish, or Russian mobs.
If he shaved, and smiled, he’d look just like Mike Trout.
The stat I’ve always heard is that the feds have a 90% conviction rate, and if convicted, you do at least 90% of the time.
The NYT & co. should probably make up their minds as to what they really want. They’ve spent the last 60 years running a Cointel Pro style operation intended to purge white culture of anything resembling a gang mentality, an ethnic mentality, and in particular, an ethnic gang mentality. They’ve gotten their wish, by hook or by crook. Now, when they need some white gangs, they can’t find any. I think I’ve got the world’s smallest fiddle around here somewhere. I’d be happy to play it for the NYT & co., if I can just find it…
Kinda makes you wonder, doesn’t it? Does she only still have a job because she’s a woman? Or, does she simply have more balls than the men? A bit of both?
We probably lost our taste for it long before you guys got here. And, like the Jewish gangsters, the Anglo-Saxon gangsters went legit.
“Thankfully, I’m an Italian-American. And thank you for your support, Senator Geary.”
Hey Salvatore, I am Italian American as well.
Those guys were not organized crime in the Al Capone-Louis “Lepke” Buchalter sense.They were bank robbers, essentially Depression-era versions of Jesse James.
I read that if you adjust for inflation, Al Capone would be considered a billionaire by 2015 standards. Al Capone had a 9 figure net worth during the great depression.
Coulter didn’t suggest it, but I’ve got a great way to get rid of all those criminal aliens without mass arrests and deportations: crack down on their employers. This should be a big hit with liberals, who go to great lengths to show their distaste for evil, wealthy capitalists who exploit The People. Given a viable verification system to establish who’s a citizen and who’s not, it should be quite easy for non-evil, non-exploitative capitalists to distinguish themselves from their evil, exploitative cousins. Then, the gov’t moves in with Drug War type legal mechanisms (heavy fines, prison sentences, and asset forfeiture spring to mind) and eradicates the criminal alien employing class. It wouldn’t take much enforcement of this kind to make most of the evil, exploitative capitalist employers of criminal aliens move rapidly into the non-evil, non-exploitative capitalist class. Threats of bankruptcy, penury, and imprisonment tend to have that effect. We’re talking about a fairly small number of people here, so it shouldn’t be too hard a goal to accomplish.
And as an added bonus, the Republicans and the Chamber of Commerce will hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the idea. And look really, really bad opposing a crackdown on evil capitalists.
But maybe Dems & lefties love evil capitalists?
Thing is, the Democrats want the votes from the anchor babies, and the Republicans' donors want the cheap labor. So, not gonna happen.
Runaway Train, with Jon Voight as Oscar “Manny” Manheim:
It’s funny to see all this speculation here about Scots Irish, Irish, etc. when anyone commenting here could look up the surname of the white gangster in question and discover that Sebourn is a Saxon name.
Jesse Sebourn is an English American with a 100% Anglo name.
Geez…
Ethnic origins of the Scots-Irish in America, from 1718 to 1775:
Northern Ireland: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000
(Fischer, Albion's Seed, 609)
Also, in the USA, Scottish names are regarded as Anglo.Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill P
Jesse Sebourn is an English American with a 100% Anglo name.
Geez...Replies: @syonredux
Lots of Scots and Irish have English names.Also, the Scots-Irish population is drawn from Ulster, Scotland, and Northern England:
Ethnic origins of the Scots-Irish in America, from 1718 to 1775:
Northern Ireland: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000
(Fischer, Albion’s Seed, 609)
Also, in the USA, Scottish names are regarded as Anglo.
Without Scots Irish there would be no United States of America. They were the backbone of the Continental Army, not to mention the colonial forces in the French Indian War, and their spirit of independence and desire for liberty was crucial to the birth of our nation. I highly doubt a real "American" identity as opposed to "English" identity would have emerged without them.
Frankly, it kind of pisses me off to see people here writing them off as a bunch of half-wit hillbillies, when in fact they've made enormous contributions to every field of American endeavor.
Do the names Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Herman Melville, George Patton, Ulysses Grant, Andrew Jackson, John Wayne and Thomas Edison ring a bell? To go on would be to belabor the point, which is that nobody is more American than Americans of Scots Irish ancestry, and a lot of people are a lot less.Replies: @rod1963, @syonredux
I remembered the bit where the father tells his son, if he doesn’t come back, to go to the Protestant minister, but NOT to go to the Catholic priest (who is presumably in with the Irish mob). Might have been kind of oblique though.
That’s been my opinion for a while. (See, we agree on something!)
Thing is, the Democrats want the votes from the anchor babies, and the Republicans’ donors want the cheap labor. So, not gonna happen.
Cracking down on the employers would work. Needless to say it wouldn’t get any GOP support.
More than likely, Israel deports most if the West Bank into Gazastan, uses it massive offshore gas fields to buy peace with neighbors. The Palestinians have wanted war … in their terms anyway. And now the got it. Decades of rockets have destroyed the peace mivement as the Palestinans proved they can’t be trusted but they kept it real. Real jihad.
Keeping it real always costs. Like American Blacks, Palestinians go to extreme lengths to keep racial seperateness and avoid assimilation. Successful but at huge cost.
He also solicited two murders for hire, paid money for them, and included with the deal with a perfect aspie libertarian psycho request: take a picture of the dead body with a random number string.
Amusingly he was caught because he spammed Silk Road on theshroomery magic mushroom forum using email accounts he registered under his real name and sought leads for programmers on his real Facebook account.
I think both of these stories involve taking the wrong type of mushroom.
A. muscarius mushrooms are psychoactive, but produce frightening hallucinations and are very bad for your health. The right mushroom to take, p. cubensis, are a lot of fun if you’re a calm, healthy, and smart person, and do not involve the risk of blackout or memory loss. They are also perfectly safe, as the active parts are nearly identical to serotonin and quickly digested by your MAO enzymes.
Ethnic origins of the Scots-Irish in America, from 1718 to 1775:
Northern Ireland: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000
(Fischer, Albion's Seed, 609)
Also, in the USA, Scottish names are regarded as Anglo.Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill P
Lots of Scots and Irish have Anglicized surnames, which isn’t the same thing as an English surname. Or they will have Norman surnames, which English people also have, since the Normans invaded Scotland and Ireland as well as England and Wales.
I seriously doubt you’re actually Italian-American. You sound like a guy pretending to be Italian-American.
According to my 23AndMe ancestry results, I am not pretending to be Italian American.Replies: @Truth
Right. He has the shaved head and goatee that Hispanic gang members have. Plus the scowl and Clint Eastwood tough guy squint thing.
“Those guys were not organized crime in the Al Capone-Louis “Lepke” Buchalter sense.They were bank robbers, essentially Depression-era versions of Jesse James.”
I read that if you adjust for inflation, Al Capone would be considered a billionaire by 2015 standards. Al Capone had a 9 figure net worth during the great depression.
I seriously doubt the 70 IQ. Isn’t that like retard territory or close to it?
Basically with an IQ of 70 you were expecting him to have down syndrome facial features like those students in K-12 who take the little yellow school bus home and always have adult supervision with them in the cafeteria during lunch.Replies: @NOTA
Ethnic origins of the Scots-Irish in America, from 1718 to 1775:
Northern Ireland: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000
(Fischer, Albion's Seed, 609)
Also, in the USA, Scottish names are regarded as Anglo.Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill P
I know, I’m Scots Irish on my mother’s side and the names on that side of the family are a combination of English, Norman, Scottish and Irish. Scots Irish is a new ethnicity that emerged from the Williamite political/religious movement.
Without Scots Irish there would be no United States of America. They were the backbone of the Continental Army, not to mention the colonial forces in the French Indian War, and their spirit of independence and desire for liberty was crucial to the birth of our nation. I highly doubt a real “American” identity as opposed to “English” identity would have emerged without them.
Frankly, it kind of pisses me off to see people here writing them off as a bunch of half-wit hillbillies, when in fact they’ve made enormous contributions to every field of American endeavor.
Do the names Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Herman Melville, George Patton, Ulysses Grant, Andrew Jackson, John Wayne and Thomas Edison ring a bell? To go on would be to belabor the point, which is that nobody is more American than Americans of Scots Irish ancestry, and a lot of people are a lot less.
The Scott and Irish seem to be viewed by them as little more than tribes of morons with a propensity for violence and boozing.
The Slavs, French and others seems to inhabit even a lower rung on the intellectual and moral ladders.
It must be interesting to be a doorman at a HBD gathering, keeping the lesser humans away from them and such.Replies: @Bill P
Thomas Edison: Was he "Scots-Irish?" Here's the WIKIPEDIA bio:Ulysses S Grant:
He's an interesting case.He had a lot of "Border stock, to use Fischer's phrase, in his ancestry (his mother was the grand-daughter of a man who immigrated from Ulster).On the other hand, the Grant family came over in the Puritan migration in the 1630s (Matthew Grant, his direct ancestor, arrived in the Massachusetts Bay colony circa 1630).According to Fischer, Grant strongly identified with his English Puritan roots (Fischer, Albion's Seed, 837)
Poe: If I remember correctly, his father (David Poe) was of Ulster stock.However, I'm not sure about his mother.Elizabeth "Eliza" Arnold Hopkins Poe was born in London, and I'm not sure about her antecedents.Replies: @Bill P
“I seriously doubt you’re actually Italian-American. You sound like a guy pretending to be Italian-American.”
According to my 23AndMe ancestry results, I am not pretending to be Italian American.
Well, there’s Pelican Bay, the California state supermax prison that’s used for dangerous gangsters. It’s in the far northwest of the state, a few miles from the Oregon border, and as far as possible from major population centers.
I don’t think the courts these days would let us set up some tar paper shacks out at Tule Lake to house a few tens of thousands of prisoners in an open air general population, Stalag Luft 13 style.
Why not both. . . to be fair?
“The US has changed dramatically as a result of the massive influx of immigrants, and will continue to do so, and most of this change will be subtractive – the loss of freedoms, customs, etc. – rather than additive.”
There hasn’t been any observable loss of freedoms with the influx of immigrants–I can still speak my mind in the public square, carry a gun, serve on a jury, and eat, drink, and be merry.
“It’s probably testosterone plus something else–poor impulse control?”
Considering white collar crimes are generally committed by, you guessed it, whites, it does make sense genetically that whites are more prone to this sort of crime.
“From the NPR story during breakfast, the contestants had seen all of the words multiple times in their preparation.”
Damn immigrants and their work ethic!
“The Scots-Irish also settled in significant numbers in Ohio, and that tribe has a reputation for producing its share of rough-edged men.”
Is this due to nature, i.e. their in-born capacity for fighting, or nurture, i.e. men teach boys how to fight? Seriously, I want to know your opinion.
“There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites.”
How dare you believe there are such things as lower class whites. They are merely white.
“If you are a WASP who likes the criminal life, there are really are no gangs out there for people of your ethnicity. “
They prefer solitary company while pilfering and plundering Fortune 500 corporations. It’s in their DNA.
“White gang membership tends to be overestimated and over counted while Hispanic gang membership tends to be underestimated…”
Hispanics are white.
“All of the notoriously famous White gangsters in American history seem to be either Jewish or Catholic. “
Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic, let’s be accurate, please.
“The motherland of England never created their own version of Cosa Nostra.”
That would be Southrons, who developed slavery. Had their own code of honor and ways of making sure the darkies would tow the line, know what I mean?
“The KKK is not a organized crime group in the traditional sense of the word.”
They are a group. Who have their own traditions. Who engage in criminal activity. They are every bit an “organized crime group” in the traditional sense of the word. They are greedy for “white” control of the economy. And some of their most famous members were from privileged backgrounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics#Hugo_Black
“Coulter didn’t suggest it, but I’ve got a great way to get rid of all those criminal aliens without mass arrests and deportations: crack down on their employers.”
And destroy the capitalist spirit in the process by enforcing the laws already on the books? Don’t you know that employers have the liberty to hire whomever they want to ensure higher profits? Don’t you know that prices will rise and shortages will result? Who will cut your lawn? Pick your fruit? Wash your bed linens? Cook your food in a greasy spoon? Man, you no fun!
I don't know what's happened to them now given that their London neighborhoods have been taken over by immigrants and hipsters.
There has been a loss of freedoms with the influx of immigrants - the just expired Patriot Act and other Bush/Obama era legislation. Probably would have happened without immigrants, though.
That is 100 percent false, when you factor in that The U.S mostly receives Hispanic immigrants from predominantly Brown countries like Mexico and Guatemala and not predominantly White countries like Uruguay and Argentina.
The vast majority of Hispanics in the U.S do not look like Lionel Messi.
“I seriously doubt the 70 IQ. Isn’t that like retard territory or close to it?”
Basically with an IQ of 70 you were expecting him to have down syndrome facial features like those students in K-12 who take the little yellow school bus home and always have adult supervision with them in the cafeteria during lunch.
WASPs have moved on from banditry to areas where they can steal legally such as being lawyers. The pay is better and the risks are lower.
Without Scots Irish there would be no United States of America. They were the backbone of the Continental Army, not to mention the colonial forces in the French Indian War, and their spirit of independence and desire for liberty was crucial to the birth of our nation. I highly doubt a real "American" identity as opposed to "English" identity would have emerged without them.
Frankly, it kind of pisses me off to see people here writing them off as a bunch of half-wit hillbillies, when in fact they've made enormous contributions to every field of American endeavor.
Do the names Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Herman Melville, George Patton, Ulysses Grant, Andrew Jackson, John Wayne and Thomas Edison ring a bell? To go on would be to belabor the point, which is that nobody is more American than Americans of Scots Irish ancestry, and a lot of people are a lot less.Replies: @rod1963, @syonredux
There is a certain pecking order here in regards to whites. Those with pure English bloodlines have put themselves at the top – basically apex whites.
The Scott and Irish seem to be viewed by them as little more than tribes of morons with a propensity for violence and boozing.
The Slavs, French and others seems to inhabit even a lower rung on the intellectual and moral ladders.
It must be interesting to be a doorman at a HBD gathering, keeping the lesser humans away from them and such.
Maybe next time they're in trouble we won't do their fighting for them. That's something I bet they haven't considered seriously enough.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
Here’s three more I just easily found on a crime blog site:
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/murder-in-the-family-tyler-blansit-charged-with-the-murder-of-his-mother-sherry-ann-blansit/
Tyler Ryan Blansit
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/update-troy-laferrara-murder-miranda-and-elytte-barbour-pled-guilty-sentenced-to-lwop/
Elytte Barbour
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/psycho-for-love-jacob-lee-boyd-charged-with-killing-his-girlfriend-racheal-jean-wiest-for-refusing-to-have-sex-with-him/
Jacob Lee Boyd
Damn, that’s some powerful ‘shrooms son! Did he see Mario and Princess Peach?
There hasn’t been any observable loss of freedoms with the influx of immigrants--I can still speak my mind in the public square, carry a gun, serve on a jury, and eat, drink, and be merry.
“It’s probably testosterone plus something else–poor impulse control?”
Considering white collar crimes are generally committed by, you guessed it, whites, it does make sense genetically that whites are more prone to this sort of crime.
“From the NPR story during breakfast, the contestants had seen all of the words multiple times in their preparation.”
Damn immigrants and their work ethic!
“The Scots-Irish also settled in significant numbers in Ohio, and that tribe has a reputation for producing its share of rough-edged men.”
Is this due to nature, i.e. their in-born capacity for fighting, or nurture, i.e. men teach boys how to fight? Seriously, I want to know your opinion.
“There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites.”
How dare you believe there are such things as lower class whites. They are merely white.
“If you are a WASP who likes the criminal life, there are really are no gangs out there for people of your ethnicity. “
They prefer solitary company while pilfering and plundering Fortune 500 corporations. It’s in their DNA.
“White gang membership tends to be overestimated and over counted while Hispanic gang membership tends to be underestimated...”
Hispanics are white.
“All of the notoriously famous White gangsters in American history seem to be either Jewish or Catholic. “
Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic, let’s be accurate, please.
“The motherland of England never created their own version of Cosa Nostra.”
That would be Southrons, who developed slavery. Had their own code of honor and ways of making sure the darkies would tow the line, know what I mean?
“The KKK is not a organized crime group in the traditional sense of the word.”
They are a group. Who have their own traditions. Who engage in criminal activity. They are every bit an “organized crime group” in the traditional sense of the word. They are greedy for “white” control of the economy. And some of their most famous members were from privileged backgrounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics#Hugo_Black
“Coulter didn’t suggest it, but I’ve got a great way to get rid of all those criminal aliens without mass arrests and deportations: crack down on their employers.”
And destroy the capitalist spirit in the process by enforcing the laws already on the books? Don’t you know that employers have the liberty to hire whomever they want to ensure higher profits? Don’t you know that prices will rise and shortages will result? Who will cut your lawn? Pick your fruit? Wash your bed linens? Cook your food in a greasy spoon? Man, you no fun!Replies: @Hare Krishna, @Jefferson
The closest thing to a Mafia that Britain developed were the “firms”, who ruled the streets but never were able to get as much power as their US counterparts due to the political system being different.
I don’t know what’s happened to them now given that their London neighborhoods have been taken over by immigrants and hipsters.
There has been a loss of freedoms with the influx of immigrants – the just expired Patriot Act and other Bush/Obama era legislation. Probably would have happened without immigrants, though.
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/murder-in-the-family-tyler-blansit-charged-with-the-murder-of-his-mother-sherry-ann-blansit/
Tyler Ryan Blansit
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/update-troy-laferrara-murder-miranda-and-elytte-barbour-pled-guilty-sentenced-to-lwop/
Elytte Barbour
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/psycho-for-love-jacob-lee-boyd-charged-with-killing-his-girlfriend-racheal-jean-wiest-for-refusing-to-have-sex-with-him/
Jacob Lee BoydReplies: @Anonymous
They look like ordinary guys except they have close cropped hair and sober expressions because they just got arrested.
Well, he looked like a perfectly normal young guy to me, except that his hair was very short and he was squinting a little. Dress him up in a nice suit and he could easily be an associate at Goldman Sachs. In fact, his very short hair makes him look a little like Richard Spencer, the WN activist. He does sound like a thuggish fellow and probably a little on the dim side, but I’d be shocked if his IQ is really 70. It’s obviously just a standard trick by his defense lawyer.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn’t seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he’s an actual gang member. He’s accused of being a sworn member of the “blue gang” which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone’s accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn’t surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it’s very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and http://www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland’s violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto’s violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the “hell-hole” category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this “Hispanic gang” talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I’ve written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the “gangs” aren’t committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a “gang?” Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in “gang prevention funds,” cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.
Jesse SebournStanislaus [county of Modesto] most wantedGoldman Sachs:Our PeopleGoldman Sachs Employees Aren't Allowed To Write Or Respond To "WTF," "Fck," And "F-k"Richard, a vice president in our Investment Banking Division's Strategies GroupInvestment Management Division, New York
Bingo! Like the current crime du jour - Human Trafficking!Replies: @E. Rekshun
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
Not related to your comment but I wanted to thank you for providing a place where alternative views can be discussed. 🙂 Now if Patty B can stop flapping his gums, the right may have a chance in hell of winning an election or two.
Blacks, gays/trannies even animals get more SJW points than low class White guys or mestizoish Latinos.
A black guy on death row will even get Frauleins in Germany writing love letters to him. A Garcia in Cali, not so much.Replies: @Truth
Jealous much?
So you actually have an opinion on this young man’s intellect that conflicts with that of a trained professional, gleaned upon reading a 5 paragraph article on a blog. Might I inquire as to your IQ?
I assume given those incentives any of us could manage to get a 70 on the test. Though the fact that he dropped out of high school and got involved in various lowlife troubles suggests that 70 might have been accurate.Replies: @Truth
Yeah Bro, MS-13, the Mexican Mafia, Nortenos, Surenos, all considered white.
Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Dick Cheney…
Go to the Irish parts of either city and you will see Rooney lookalikes by the thousands - he is in fact a better looking example of his race than most.
I have a theory: the more intelligent and enterprising Irish went to Australia, Canada and the United States; the less so went to London, and the least simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow. There they have remained, stewing in the juices of their stupidity, ignorance, and historic grievances.
Horrifyingly, those in Glasgow are now in a position to ruin Scotland as much as their cousins have ruined Ireland itself.
Democracy in action, once again.Replies: @Anonymous, @Ivy
Strangely enough, Ireland has a much better standard of living than the UK.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
That’s what I thought. He’s not a bad looking guy, actually, except for the dumb expression in the photo.
These sort of ideas circulate frequently Dave, but I think the thing that middle-class guys tend to misunderstand, is that if inmates wanted to work low-paying, square jobs, they probably wouldn’t be inmates.
Some Alaskan boats are high variance, moderate expected payout jobs. Regardless, you know as well as I that this is will be an historical high point for the terminal criminal. It will be centuries in the future, if ever, that they are treated with as much deference and respect as they are today.
NeilReplies: @Truth
According to my 23AndMe ancestry results, I am not pretending to be Italian American.Replies: @Truth
You had to take a genetic test to know if you were Italian, Dr. Cusamano? I take it you eat your Sunday gravy out of a jar.
I only took the test to find out if I have any other ancestry in my family tree besides Italian. I found out I have minor Jewish ancestry, but I am still predominantly Italian.Replies: @Anonymous, @5371
The Scott and Irish seem to be viewed by them as little more than tribes of morons with a propensity for violence and boozing.
The Slavs, French and others seems to inhabit even a lower rung on the intellectual and moral ladders.
It must be interesting to be a doorman at a HBD gathering, keeping the lesser humans away from them and such.Replies: @Bill P
I know, and it’s total bullshit. Wouldn’t surprise me if this attitude isn’t behind a lot of white elites’ justification for screwing the rest of their co-ethnics over.
Maybe next time they’re in trouble we won’t do their fighting for them. That’s something I bet they haven’t considered seriously enough.
The Scots-Irish have their share of leaders and patriots. They also provide the white American population with much needed backbone. I'm glad we have them in this country, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with speculating if some white ethnic groups produce more underclass individuals than others.
The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota "nice" types.Replies: @Truth, @SFG, @OilcanFloyd
John Dillinger maybe. My vague memory is that his mother was English and his father German and his family attended the local Uniting church where the father was a deacon.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
For anyone interested in physiognomy, here is pics of Goldman Sachs people to compare with Modesto criminals.
Jesse Sebourn
Stanislaus [county of Modesto] most wanted
Goldman Sachs:
Our People
Goldman Sachs Employees Aren’t Allowed To Write Or Respond To “WTF,” “Fck,” And “F-k”
Richard, a vice president in our Investment Banking Division’s Strategies Group
Investment Management Division, New York
An article on gangs features a white gang member murdering an Hispanic. Man bites dog.
“You had to take a genetic test to know if you were Italian, Dr. Cusamano? I take it you eat your Sunday gravy out of a jar.”
I only took the test to find out if I have any other ancestry in my family tree besides Italian. I found out I have minor Jewish ancestry, but I am still predominantly Italian.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
From the article:
Maybe he just likes to hang out with his friends who just happen to be gang members. Well, some friends want you to help them move their couch, and these want you to help them spray paint their rival gang’s mural in an alley.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
Personally, I think a great deal of this “Hispanic gang” talk is just a media/political hoax…Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in “gang prevention funds,” cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.
Bingo! Like the current crime du jour – Human Trafficking!
Bingo! Like the current crime du jour - Human Trafficking!Replies: @E. Rekshun
^ Oh, and “Biker Gangs”!
Underclass white ethnic group? I'd joke and say the Irish (I'm an Easterner) back in the day--but your Ohio reference makes me think the brawlers there are German. (Ohio is wonderfully endowed with schnitzel places.) I'd guess there's probably some physiologic correlate of low impulse control plus testosterone that you're seeing. It might even differ from nationality to nationality.Replies: @advancedatheist, @EvolutionistX, @JohnnyWalker123
Physiognomy is a very interesting and neglected subject.
Lots of cities in Ohio (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Youngstown, Akron) and other rust belt areas have substantial numbers of “hillbilly ghettos.” This Seabourn guy would fit right in. It does seem that the whites in those ghettos are disproportionately of Southern origin.
Maybe next time they're in trouble we won't do their fighting for them. That's something I bet they haven't considered seriously enough.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
I don’t think anyone is implying that one group is inherently superior to another.
The Scots-Irish have their share of leaders and patriots. They also provide the white American population with much needed backbone. I’m glad we have them in this country, but that doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with speculating if some white ethnic groups produce more underclass individuals than others.
The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota “nice” types.
One thing that seems underappreciated here is that you can have subgroups of the root stock that have widely divergent outcomes. French-Americans tend not to be too successful, largely because they're descended from blue-collar types, but France has given the world more than its share of scholars, scientists, etc.
At the other end of the alpha-omega continuum, skill at war depends on the types of war you're fighting. I bet the Scotch-Irish are really good at irregular warfare. The average African could probably beat up the average Chinese, but let's see Mugabe march a few columns through China and see what happens.
Ever been to the Northwoods or the Iron Range?
That comment is absolutely bizarre… and 100% accurate. I went to high school in the Cincinnati ‘burbs, and Seabourn looks exactly like every undersized linebacker I ever had to block.
SFG says:
I’ll vouch for this. Columbus has a slight edge on German restaurants, but Cincinnati has the better Oktoberfest. Ohio had a large influx of Appalachians in the first half of the 20th century, so that distinctive “Ohio white thug” look may be primarily an admixture of German and Scottish ancestry to the pre-existing Anglo-Saxon stock. Get HBD Chick on the case, and we’ll get this hammered out before lunch.
The Scots-Irish have their share of leaders and patriots. They also provide the white American population with much needed backbone. I'm glad we have them in this country, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with speculating if some white ethnic groups produce more underclass individuals than others.
The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota "nice" types.Replies: @Truth, @SFG, @OilcanFloyd
Certainly Bro, if the Minnesota “nice” types ran the south, there might be a lot of blacks there.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
Ron,
Modesto actually has a fairly elevated crime rate and poverty rate. Granted, it’s not Oakland, but it’s still fairly bad in comparison to a typical American community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesto,_California#Crime
The issue with Modesto is not that it has a lot of Hispanics, but that the poverty rate is relatively high for both whites and Hispanics. High poverty rates imply large concentrations of underclass residents, who tend to cause a lot of crime . If you look at high-poverty cities with mostly white populations, crime is an issue too.
In San Jose, Hispanics are fairly law abiding because it’s an expensive city that prices out much of the underclass. San Jose Hispanics tend to have a relatively lower poverty rate. The same is true in San Francisco.
The key to low crime rates is to have expensive housing, few rental properties, and limited subsidized housing. That prices out the underclass of all races.
It also doesn't surprise me that it's one of the top American cities in auto-theft. I think it was the setting for Lucas's American Graffiti movie, and since the economy is much worse these days, I'd imagine there's a great deal of joyriding by teenagers.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Boomstick
Besides, modern German youth culture isn't into Mozart and Leibniz. Thugs gonna thug...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6kRMM0IuQReplies: @JohnnyWalker123
Those guys might be Turkish-German.
We should do a thread where we post our pictures and get our jawlines and other features analyzed by the community. Might not do wonders for our careers, but we could stand to win a Mr iSteve trophy for home.
On-topic, I think facial expressions do a lot to soften or harden someone’s features, and you can’t really get that from a picture. You have to see a movie and watch how he expresses himself. You can glean a lot of information, like effeminacy.
I don't see how anyone could think Seabourn is entirely of Northern European descent - just look at the top photo. At the least, he has some Southern European blood. Of course, if he wants to be considered white, all he has to do is shoot a black attacker, and he need never fear being lumbered with the Latino label again.Replies: @Jefferson
Sure, Modesto does have crime rates far above the CA average, but given that it’s pretty impoverished and boring and miserable, that’s not too surprising. Frankly, I was surprised that it had almost exactly the same violent crime and homicide rates as Boston, which is so much more affluent and generally has a very positive national image.
It also doesn’t surprise me that it’s one of the top American cities in auto-theft. I think it was the setting for Lucas’s American Graffiti movie, and since the economy is much worse these days, I’d imagine there’s a great deal of joyriding by teenagers.
I'd note that while most Boston whites are affluent and educated, there still are a substantial number of blue collar and lower-class Irish and Italians left in the city. Some of them have a very rough edge, so it wouldn't surprise me if they boosted the crime rate.Replies: @sceptic, @Ron Unz
Hired defense ‘experts’ are paid to say the right things. You know that so quit pretending.
That’s Richard Bruce Cheney.
Go to the Irish parts of either city and you will see Rooney lookalikes by the thousands - he is in fact a better looking example of his race than most.
I have a theory: the more intelligent and enterprising Irish went to Australia, Canada and the United States; the less so went to London, and the least simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow. There they have remained, stewing in the juices of their stupidity, ignorance, and historic grievances.
Horrifyingly, those in Glasgow are now in a position to ruin Scotland as much as their cousins have ruined Ireland itself.
Democracy in action, once again.Replies: @Anonymous, @Ivy
Some of those enterprising Irish went to Australia courtesy of His Majesty’s transport ships.
See Hughes book
I only took the test to find out if I have any other ancestry in my family tree besides Italian. I found out I have minor Jewish ancestry, but I am still predominantly Italian.Replies: @Anonymous, @5371
Nobody believes that you’re Italian. Stop pretending.
Vaffanculo
Stai zitto
On-topic, I think facial expressions do a lot to soften or harden someone's features, and you can't really get that from a picture. You have to see a movie and watch how he expresses himself. You can glean a lot of information, like effeminacy.Replies: @Rob McX
I think a still photo can be deceptive and people read too much into them. You can capture someone in an infinite number of expressions. Ever try clicking Pause on a YouTube video of someone talking and see how many expressions you can catch? You can make them look dignified or stupid or crazy, or anything you want.
I don’t see how anyone could think Seabourn is entirely of Northern European descent – just look at the top photo. At the least, he has some Southern European blood. Of course, if he wants to be considered white, all he has to do is shoot a black attacker, and he need never fear being lumbered with the Latino label again.
Not all Northern Europeans look Nordic Aryan in phenotype. Look at Ringo Starr for example, phenotype wise he would blend right in Israel, Italy, Lebanon, or Turkey for example. He looks closer to Borat and Jim Croce in phenotype than he does to Paul Bettany the extremely Aryan looking guy from "The Da Vinci Code".
It also doesn't surprise me that it's one of the top American cities in auto-theft. I think it was the setting for Lucas's American Graffiti movie, and since the economy is much worse these days, I'd imagine there's a great deal of joyriding by teenagers.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Boomstick
One major difference between Boston and Modesto is in the proportion of black residents. Modesto is 4% black, while Boston is 24% black. Also, roughly 9% of Boston residents are of Puerto Rican or Dominican ethnicity.
I’d note that while most Boston whites are affluent and educated, there still are a substantial number of blue collar and lower-class Irish and Italians left in the city. Some of them have a very rough edge, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they boosted the crime rate.
Just as the least enterprising Irish simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow, so the least enterprising of those who made it across the Atlantic simply stayed put wherever they landed. The more intelligent and daring moved on.
Proof? The Kennedys, although I admit to a certain grudging admiration for JFK. The disgusting Ted, on the other hand, helped destroy the USA with the 1964 immigration "reform" act.
The Buckleys, by the way, one of the more patrician Irish-American clans, arrived in the USA via Canada.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
Still, Anchorage, Alaska has pretty similar violent crime and homicide rates, and roughly comparable black percentages (5.6% vs. 4%, plus another 8% Amerind). My guess is that despite totally different temperatures, the dynamics of Modesto and Anchorage aren't too different: an overwhelmingly "roughneck" blue-collar white/Hispanic population, faced by an unpleasant local climate and very boring surroundings, leading to a lot drinking and personal brawls. I also think Modesto's pretty impoverished these days. Still, I don't really know much about either city, so it's just speculation on my part.
The Scots-Irish have their share of leaders and patriots. They also provide the white American population with much needed backbone. I'm glad we have them in this country, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with speculating if some white ethnic groups produce more underclass individuals than others.
The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota "nice" types.Replies: @Truth, @SFG, @OilcanFloyd
Depends on what you want, as you’ve said. Soldiers? Merchants? Factory drones?
One thing that seems underappreciated here is that you can have subgroups of the root stock that have widely divergent outcomes. French-Americans tend not to be too successful, largely because they’re descended from blue-collar types, but France has given the world more than its share of scholars, scientists, etc.
At the other end of the alpha-omega continuum, skill at war depends on the types of war you’re fighting. I bet the Scotch-Irish are really good at irregular warfare. The average African could probably beat up the average Chinese, but let’s see Mugabe march a few columns through China and see what happens.
Without Scots Irish there would be no United States of America. They were the backbone of the Continental Army, not to mention the colonial forces in the French Indian War, and their spirit of independence and desire for liberty was crucial to the birth of our nation. I highly doubt a real "American" identity as opposed to "English" identity would have emerged without them.
Frankly, it kind of pisses me off to see people here writing them off as a bunch of half-wit hillbillies, when in fact they've made enormous contributions to every field of American endeavor.
Do the names Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Herman Melville, George Patton, Ulysses Grant, Andrew Jackson, John Wayne and Thomas Edison ring a bell? To go on would be to belabor the point, which is that nobody is more American than Americans of Scots Irish ancestry, and a lot of people are a lot less.Replies: @rod1963, @syonredux
Melville wasn’t “Scots-Irish.” He was Dutch on his mother’s side (she was the daughter of Peter Gansevoort).On his father’s side, he was of Scottish descent.His grandfather was the Boston-born Thomas Melvill, a Revolutionary War hero who was memorialized in Oliver Wendell Holmes’ poem “The Last Leaf.”Scots +Boston+ Dutch New York does not equal Scots-Irish.
Thomas Edison: Was he “Scots-Irish?” Here’s the WIKIPEDIA bio:
Ulysses S Grant:
He’s an interesting case.He had a lot of “Border stock, to use Fischer’s phrase, in his ancestry (his mother was the grand-daughter of a man who immigrated from Ulster).On the other hand, the Grant family came over in the Puritan migration in the 1630s (Matthew Grant, his direct ancestor, arrived in the Massachusetts Bay colony circa 1630).According to Fischer, Grant strongly identified with his English Puritan roots (Fischer, Albion’s Seed, 837)
Poe: If I remember correctly, his father (David Poe) was of Ulster stock.However, I’m not sure about his mother.Elizabeth “Eliza” Arnold Hopkins Poe was born in London, and I’m not sure about her antecedents.
Scots Irish Covenanters were not restricted to the Southern states. Some, including some of my own ancestors, were settled in Vermont to serve as a buffer against Indian attacks for the English colonists in Massachusetts. Many Scots Irish settled in New Hampshire, too, which is why that state to this day has a markedly different political tradition from its neighbors (e.g. "Live Free or Die).
For those above who blame Scots Irish for perpetuating slavery, that is 100% incorrect. The Covenanters were among the most strident opponents of slavery, and it was the tidewater Cavaliers of southern English stock who fully embraced the plantation lifestyle. If some Scots Irish supported slavery (e.g. Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonewall Jackson), it was in spite of their ancestral tradition rather than because of it.
It's about time someone set the record straight on this matter, and people stopped using the term "Scots Irish" to refer to ignoramuses and low class whites, who are descended from every European ethnic group that made its way across the Atlantic. Not that low class people deserve abuse - I think the right thing to do is give them a helping hand and a good example to follow as Andrew Carnegie did - but to conflate them with Scots Irish is not only wrong, but kind of ignorant in itself.
BTW, someone mentioned that the Scandinavians are the best behaved whites. That's true to an extent among the old Lutheran communities, but remove them from that environment and they are the same as any other whites. Spend some time in Alaskan fishing ports and you'll see what I mean (I am a quarter Norwegian, BTW, so I have no animosity toward Scandinavians, but instead consider them kin).Replies: @syonredux
A trained professional hired by the defense, dear fellow.There is such a thing as motivation.And, as I said earlier, White Americans with 70 IQs (two SDs below the norm) tend to be “funny looking.” Hence, I suspect that his IQ is probably more like 85.
Never had it professionally tested.My GRE verbal was 730, if that helps.
Operationally, it is.Cf German-Americans who go by “Miller.”
Which, again, operationally read as English names
Basically with an IQ of 70 you were expecting him to have down syndrome facial features like those students in K-12 who take the little yellow school bus home and always have adult supervision with them in the cafeteria during lunch.Replies: @NOTA
That’s just -2 standard deviations, so in the bottom 3% or so. Some of those guys will have some bigger genetic or developmental problem, but plenty just got a bad roll of the genetic dice.
If he were a Black American (Mean IQ approx 85), I would be more inclined to believe a score of 75.
It’s not about intelligence, it’s about incentives. Take this IQ test, and if you do badly enough without obviously throwing the thing, maybe I can get you a reduced sentence.
I assume given those incentives any of us could manage to get a 70 on the test. Though the fact that he dropped out of high school and got involved in various lowlife troubles suggests that 70 might have been accurate.
On the other hand, having now actually read the NYT article, there doesn't seem any evidence that he had anything to do with the shooting that produced the murder charge. It also seems unlikely he's an actual gang member. He's accused of being a sworn member of the "blue gang" which regards display of the red color of their hated rivals as a mortal affront, sometimes leading to immediate murder. But apparently his Facebook page showed his young son wearing a red shirt and redish shorts. If someone's accused of being an Islamic Fundamentalist and you find their Facebook page filled with pictures showing them wearing crosses and praying at Church, the accusation is probably false. Basically, he seems like a thuggish young guy whom the police tried to railroad on a false murder charge, so it didn't surprise me that the jury failed to convict.
Although I thought the NYT article was pretty good overall, it suffered from the typical lack of quantification, which is very helpful when considering crime. For example, the piece made Modesto sound like a gang-dominated crime hell-hole. My impression of Modesto is that it's very boring and generally impoverished, but without horrifying crime rates, and it took me five minutes to confirm this via Wikipedia and www.neighborhoodscout.com. For example, Oakland's violent crime rate is 150% higher and its homicide rate almost 400% higher. Turns out Modesto's violent crime and homicide rates are very close to those of Boston and Anchorage, Alaska, neither of which are probably in the "hell-hole" category.
Personally, I think a great deal of this "Hispanic gang" talk is just a media/political hoax, since as I've written at length, heavily Hispanic areas tend to have pretty average crime rates. So if the "gangs" aren't committing crimes, what does it mean to be in a "gang?" Given that the federal government gives out huge sums of money in "gang prevention funds," cities are always talking up their gang problems, even San Jose, which has traditionally had just about the lowest urban crime rates in America.Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Bill P, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @E. Rekshun, @JohnnyWalker123, @Jack Hanson
I guess you’ve got a lot of experience with figuring out who’s in a gang from the gated NorCal community you push for more immigration from.
https://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/#the-hidden-motive-for-heavy-immigration
Long story short, Silicon Valley is pretty heavily Hispanic (maybe 30+%) and non-white, and I'm not sure there's a single "gated community" anywhere around. I live in Palo Alto, which is also the home for the CEOs of Google, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, and lots of other major tech companies. Anyone walking around during the day would probably think P.A. was 50% Hispanic because so many of the service and construction workers fall into that category, and it's also right next door to East Palo Alto, which is maybe 60% Hispanic. Despite this, almost none of the homes have fences, let alone gates. For example, the late Steve Jobs had a pretty ordinary looking suburban house right on a residential street, and for years, anyone who wanted could just casually walk in his yard or even peer into his windows.Replies: @Jack Hanson, @Truth, @Hippopotamusdrome
I don't see how anyone could think Seabourn is entirely of Northern European descent - just look at the top photo. At the least, he has some Southern European blood. Of course, if he wants to be considered white, all he has to do is shoot a black attacker, and he need never fear being lumbered with the Latino label again.Replies: @Jefferson
“I don’t see how anyone could think Seabourn is entirely of Northern European descent – just look at the top photo”
Not all Northern Europeans look Nordic Aryan in phenotype. Look at Ringo Starr for example, phenotype wise he would blend right in Israel, Italy, Lebanon, or Turkey for example. He looks closer to Borat and Jim Croce in phenotype than he does to Paul Bettany the extremely Aryan looking guy from “The Da Vinci Code”.
“Nobody believes that you’re Italian. Stop pretending.”
Vaffanculo
There hasn’t been any observable loss of freedoms with the influx of immigrants--I can still speak my mind in the public square, carry a gun, serve on a jury, and eat, drink, and be merry.
“It’s probably testosterone plus something else–poor impulse control?”
Considering white collar crimes are generally committed by, you guessed it, whites, it does make sense genetically that whites are more prone to this sort of crime.
“From the NPR story during breakfast, the contestants had seen all of the words multiple times in their preparation.”
Damn immigrants and their work ethic!
“The Scots-Irish also settled in significant numbers in Ohio, and that tribe has a reputation for producing its share of rough-edged men.”
Is this due to nature, i.e. their in-born capacity for fighting, or nurture, i.e. men teach boys how to fight? Seriously, I want to know your opinion.
“There is definitely a look associated with lower class (poor and low-prole) whites.”
How dare you believe there are such things as lower class whites. They are merely white.
“If you are a WASP who likes the criminal life, there are really are no gangs out there for people of your ethnicity. “
They prefer solitary company while pilfering and plundering Fortune 500 corporations. It’s in their DNA.
“White gang membership tends to be overestimated and over counted while Hispanic gang membership tends to be underestimated...”
Hispanics are white.
“All of the notoriously famous White gangsters in American history seem to be either Jewish or Catholic. “
Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic, let’s be accurate, please.
“The motherland of England never created their own version of Cosa Nostra.”
That would be Southrons, who developed slavery. Had their own code of honor and ways of making sure the darkies would tow the line, know what I mean?
“The KKK is not a organized crime group in the traditional sense of the word.”
They are a group. Who have their own traditions. Who engage in criminal activity. They are every bit an “organized crime group” in the traditional sense of the word. They are greedy for “white” control of the economy. And some of their most famous members were from privileged backgrounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics#Hugo_Black
“Coulter didn’t suggest it, but I’ve got a great way to get rid of all those criminal aliens without mass arrests and deportations: crack down on their employers.”
And destroy the capitalist spirit in the process by enforcing the laws already on the books? Don’t you know that employers have the liberty to hire whomever they want to ensure higher profits? Don’t you know that prices will rise and shortages will result? Who will cut your lawn? Pick your fruit? Wash your bed linens? Cook your food in a greasy spoon? Man, you no fun!Replies: @Hare Krishna, @Jefferson
“Hispanics are white.”
That is 100 percent false, when you factor in that The U.S mostly receives Hispanic immigrants from predominantly Brown countries like Mexico and Guatemala and not predominantly White countries like Uruguay and Argentina.
The vast majority of Hispanics in the U.S do not look like Lionel Messi.
I'd note that while most Boston whites are affluent and educated, there still are a substantial number of blue collar and lower-class Irish and Italians left in the city. Some of them have a very rough edge, so it wouldn't surprise me if they boosted the crime rate.Replies: @sceptic, @Ron Unz
The Boston Irish are a subset of the Irish who went to America; the New York City ones are as well, although not quite so egregiously.
Just as the least enterprising Irish simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow, so the least enterprising of those who made it across the Atlantic simply stayed put wherever they landed. The more intelligent and daring moved on.
Proof? The Kennedys, although I admit to a certain grudging admiration for JFK. The disgusting Ted, on the other hand, helped destroy the USA with the 1964 immigration “reform” act.
The Buckleys, by the way, one of the more patrician Irish-American clans, arrived in the USA via Canada.
I don’t know.His beavior sounds more typical of a low-normal White American (85-ish IQ) Here’s an observation from Cochran:
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/mental-retardation/
If he were a Black American (Mean IQ approx 85), I would be more inclined to believe a score of 75.
Didn’t someone make a movie a decade or so back with something like the gene bomb as a central theme? I think it was even one of Steve’s favorites along side the Road warrior.
Just as the least enterprising Irish simply crossed over to Liverpool and Glasgow, so the least enterprising of those who made it across the Atlantic simply stayed put wherever they landed. The more intelligent and daring moved on.
Proof? The Kennedys, although I admit to a certain grudging admiration for JFK. The disgusting Ted, on the other hand, helped destroy the USA with the 1964 immigration "reform" act.
The Buckleys, by the way, one of the more patrician Irish-American clans, arrived in the USA via Canada.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
The same might be true for Italians in New York City.
I'd note that while most Boston whites are affluent and educated, there still are a substantial number of blue collar and lower-class Irish and Italians left in the city. Some of them have a very rough edge, so it wouldn't surprise me if they boosted the crime rate.Replies: @sceptic, @Ron Unz
Good point. I knew that MA had a fairly low black population—it turns out to be about 8%—but had forgotten it was so heavily concentrated in Boston.
Still, Anchorage, Alaska has pretty similar violent crime and homicide rates, and roughly comparable black percentages (5.6% vs. 4%, plus another 8% Amerind). My guess is that despite totally different temperatures, the dynamics of Modesto and Anchorage aren’t too different: an overwhelmingly “roughneck” blue-collar white/Hispanic population, faced by an unpleasant local climate and very boring surroundings, leading to a lot drinking and personal brawls. I also think Modesto’s pretty impoverished these days. Still, I don’t really know much about either city, so it’s just speculation on my part.
That’s just nonsense. Maybe you should bother reading the discussion of exactly these matters in my long Race/Crime article that’s been prominantly featured on this website forever:
https://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/#the-hidden-motive-for-heavy-immigration
Long story short, Silicon Valley is pretty heavily Hispanic (maybe 30+%) and non-white, and I’m not sure there’s a single “gated community” anywhere around. I live in Palo Alto, which is also the home for the CEOs of Google, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, and lots of other major tech companies. Anyone walking around during the day would probably think P.A. was 50% Hispanic because so many of the service and construction workers fall into that category, and it’s also right next door to East Palo Alto, which is maybe 60% Hispanic. Despite this, almost none of the homes have fences, let alone gates. For example, the late Steve Jobs had a pretty ordinary looking suburban house right on a residential street, and for years, anyone who wanted could just casually walk in his yard or even peer into his windows.
I've noticed the natives are getting a little restless lately, Mr. Unz. I also don't know why the Feds would do a roundup on 147 harmless lawn and gardeners.Replies: @Palo Altan of old
California average: 38%
Center: Palo Alto 6%
North: East Palo Alto 65%
Southeast: Mountain View 46%
South: Los Altos Hills 3%
Northwest: Menlo Park 18%Southeast +1: Sunny Vale 19%
Southeast +2: Santa Clara 19%
Southeast +3: San Hose 33%Moving west out from San Jose, we get Hispanic:
33%, 19%, 19%, 46%, 6%,
and we stop and build our corporate HQ there in the 6%.What if we continue up the valley?Northwest: Menlo Park 18%
Northwest +1: Redwood City 39%
Northwest +2: San Carlos 10%
Northwest +3: Belmont 12%
Northwest +4: San Mateo 27%Lets stop here, at the 6%.Most cities in the valley are lower than the California average of Hispanic proportion, and Palo Alto, with 6% is one of the lowest in the region.
It also doesn't surprise me that it's one of the top American cities in auto-theft. I think it was the setting for Lucas's American Graffiti movie, and since the economy is much worse these days, I'd imagine there's a great deal of joyriding by teenagers.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Boomstick
The central valley car theft problem is mostly the result of gangs, parolees, and druggies. It’s professionalized. It’s more cars getting taken to chop shops, not teenagers joyriding.
Truth,
Some Alaskan boats are high variance, moderate expected payout jobs. Regardless, you know as well as I that this is will be an historical high point for the terminal criminal. It will be centuries in the future, if ever, that they are treated with as much deference and respect as they are today.
Neil
https://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/#the-hidden-motive-for-heavy-immigration
Long story short, Silicon Valley is pretty heavily Hispanic (maybe 30+%) and non-white, and I'm not sure there's a single "gated community" anywhere around. I live in Palo Alto, which is also the home for the CEOs of Google, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, and lots of other major tech companies. Anyone walking around during the day would probably think P.A. was 50% Hispanic because so many of the service and construction workers fall into that category, and it's also right next door to East Palo Alto, which is maybe 60% Hispanic. Despite this, almost none of the homes have fences, let alone gates. For example, the late Steve Jobs had a pretty ordinary looking suburban house right on a residential street, and for years, anyone who wanted could just casually walk in his yard or even peer into his windows.Replies: @Jack Hanson, @Truth, @Hippopotamusdrome
Thinking you can expoliate Silicon Valley trends to the rest of the US just underlines your ridiculousness in constantly arguing for moar immigration. Its the common demoninator between you, Zuckerberg, and the rest of the “let them eat cake” technocrats trying to shave a dollar or two off labor costs.
But what do I know about illegal immigration, being a Border Patrol agent and what not.
Seriously, how many Surenos/MS13/Sinoloans/Zetas have you ever dealt with? They’re an order of magnitude different than a bunch of trained peons you think makes you an expert in immigration, and the former is the face of the immigration wave you keep pandering for.
“Nobody believes that you’re Italian. Stop pretending.”
Stai zitto
Did anyone here ever read Jack Black’s You Can’t Win?
He talks about how by the late 1800’s, atomized Anglo criminals could no longer operate in NYC because the organized ethnic mobs would shake them down.
You Can’t Win is a fascinating book from an HBD perspective. It depicts a criminal underworld that existed in western North America after the Civil War where NW European cultural values of individualism, reputation based social pecking order and a kind of inverted moral idealism dominated. A totally different criminal under world than that of ethnic organized crime which we are all familiar with from a later era and numerous portrayals in film and literature.
Thomas Edison: Was he "Scots-Irish?" Here's the WIKIPEDIA bio:Ulysses S Grant:
He's an interesting case.He had a lot of "Border stock, to use Fischer's phrase, in his ancestry (his mother was the grand-daughter of a man who immigrated from Ulster).On the other hand, the Grant family came over in the Puritan migration in the 1630s (Matthew Grant, his direct ancestor, arrived in the Massachusetts Bay colony circa 1630).According to Fischer, Grant strongly identified with his English Puritan roots (Fischer, Albion's Seed, 837)
Poe: If I remember correctly, his father (David Poe) was of Ulster stock.However, I'm not sure about his mother.Elizabeth "Eliza" Arnold Hopkins Poe was born in London, and I'm not sure about her antecedents.Replies: @Bill P
If you want to be absolutely precise about the “Scots Irish”, they were Covenanters, and Melville was most definitely descended from Presbyterian Covenanters. His father was therefore Scots Irish in the most accurate sense of the term. Thomas Edison’s mother was a devout Presbyterian of Scots Irish descent; his father may have been as well since there was a substantial Covenanter settlement in Nova Scotia. People are generally unaware of the enormous numbers of Covenanters who fled to or were exiled to North America over a period of almost a hundred years starting in the early 18th century. It was an enormous demographic movement.
Scots Irish Covenanters were not restricted to the Southern states. Some, including some of my own ancestors, were settled in Vermont to serve as a buffer against Indian attacks for the English colonists in Massachusetts. Many Scots Irish settled in New Hampshire, too, which is why that state to this day has a markedly different political tradition from its neighbors (e.g. “Live Free or Die).
For those above who blame Scots Irish for perpetuating slavery, that is 100% incorrect. The Covenanters were among the most strident opponents of slavery, and it was the tidewater Cavaliers of southern English stock who fully embraced the plantation lifestyle. If some Scots Irish supported slavery (e.g. Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonewall Jackson), it was in spite of their ancestral tradition rather than because of it.
It’s about time someone set the record straight on this matter, and people stopped using the term “Scots Irish” to refer to ignoramuses and low class whites, who are descended from every European ethnic group that made its way across the Atlantic. Not that low class people deserve abuse – I think the right thing to do is give them a helping hand and a good example to follow as Andrew Carnegie did – but to conflate them with Scots Irish is not only wrong, but kind of ignorant in itself.
BTW, someone mentioned that the Scandinavians are the best behaved whites. That’s true to an extent among the old Lutheran communities, but remove them from that environment and they are the same as any other whites. Spend some time in Alaskan fishing ports and you’ll see what I mean (I am a quarter Norwegian, BTW, so I have no animosity toward Scandinavians, but instead consider them kin).
As for Melville, as I noted upthread, his mother was of old New York Dutch ancestry and his father was descended from Scots who had immigrated to Boston. Dutch New York + Scots+ Puritan Boston does not equal "Scots-Irish."Replies: @Bill P
I assume given those incentives any of us could manage to get a 70 on the test. Though the fact that he dropped out of high school and got involved in various lowlife troubles suggests that 70 might have been accurate.Replies: @Truth
Yes, I understand the theory, but the above poster remarked upon it as though it was a fact. It Is possible that the expert was a paid stooge, it is also possible that this white man has an ID 2 SD lower than that of your average white man. He is not a Doctor, that I know of, and even if he was, he’d be laughed out of court making a supposition based upon a picture.
Here's Cochran again:
https://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/#the-hidden-motive-for-heavy-immigration
Long story short, Silicon Valley is pretty heavily Hispanic (maybe 30+%) and non-white, and I'm not sure there's a single "gated community" anywhere around. I live in Palo Alto, which is also the home for the CEOs of Google, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, and lots of other major tech companies. Anyone walking around during the day would probably think P.A. was 50% Hispanic because so many of the service and construction workers fall into that category, and it's also right next door to East Palo Alto, which is maybe 60% Hispanic. Despite this, almost none of the homes have fences, let alone gates. For example, the late Steve Jobs had a pretty ordinary looking suburban house right on a residential street, and for years, anyone who wanted could just casually walk in his yard or even peer into his windows.Replies: @Jack Hanson, @Truth, @Hippopotamusdrome
LOL, there’s a distinction but is there a difference?
I’ve noticed the natives are getting a little restless lately, Mr. Unz. I also don’t know why the Feds would do a roundup on 147 harmless lawn and gardeners.
The first is a city, which means it is clean, dirty, poor, rich, shoddy, magnificent, dangerous, safe, ugly, beautiful, filled with many dolts and the occasional genius; in other words, it has no gates.
The second is proudly (perhaps, increasingly, defiantly) gated, and thus a fortress: all that its denizens reject is excluded; all that they accept is lovingly embraced and then polished to a dazzling shine. If outsiders wish to see and even participate in some of this glory, they must pay the price of entrance. But even then they find themselves shunned: the country clubs within the gates have further, higher gates of their own.
No difference my eye.
Some Alaskan boats are high variance, moderate expected payout jobs. Regardless, you know as well as I that this is will be an historical high point for the terminal criminal. It will be centuries in the future, if ever, that they are treated with as much deference and respect as they are today.
NeilReplies: @Truth
You may know, I certainly do not. I am not blessed with clairvoyance. I see us going more Sweden at some point, than gulag.
https://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/#the-hidden-motive-for-heavy-immigration
Long story short, Silicon Valley is pretty heavily Hispanic (maybe 30+%) and non-white, and I'm not sure there's a single "gated community" anywhere around. I live in Palo Alto, which is also the home for the CEOs of Google, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, and lots of other major tech companies. Anyone walking around during the day would probably think P.A. was 50% Hispanic because so many of the service and construction workers fall into that category, and it's also right next door to East Palo Alto, which is maybe 60% Hispanic. Despite this, almost none of the homes have fences, let alone gates. For example, the late Steve Jobs had a pretty ordinary looking suburban house right on a residential street, and for years, anyone who wanted could just casually walk in his yard or even peer into his windows.Replies: @Jack Hanson, @Truth, @Hippopotamusdrome
A good choice for a location. Palo Alto is 6.2% Hispanic, compared to California’s 37.6%. This makes a Hispanic proportion 1/6 of the state’s average. It is also majority white at 61%, a rarity in its region
It is also within commuting distance of a large city of one million, San Jose. San Jose is 33.2% Hispanic, a little lower than the state average, but you still don’t want to live there.
To sum up, what we have is run of the mill white flight. A small town with a white majority to live in within commuting distance of the diverse city to work in.
Palo Alto is a white enclave. An enclave is by definition right next door, north, east, west, and south to its majority host.
Hispanic population of bordering cities:
California average: 38%
Center: Palo Alto 6%
North: East Palo Alto 65%
Southeast: Mountain View 46%
South: Los Altos Hills 3%
Northwest: Menlo Park 18%
Southeast +1: Sunny Vale 19%
Southeast +2: Santa Clara 19%
Southeast +3: San Hose 33%
Moving west out from San Jose, we get Hispanic:
33%, 19%, 19%, 46%, 6%,
and we stop and build our corporate HQ there in the 6%.
What if we continue up the valley?
Northwest: Menlo Park 18%
Northwest +1: Redwood City 39%
Northwest +2: San Carlos 10%
Northwest +3: Belmont 12%
Northwest +4: San Mateo 27%
Lets stop here, at the 6%.
Most cities in the valley are lower than the California average of Hispanic proportion, and Palo Alto, with 6% is one of the lowest in the region.
I've noticed the natives are getting a little restless lately, Mr. Unz. I also don't know why the Feds would do a roundup on 147 harmless lawn and gardeners.Replies: @Palo Altan of old
As a former resident of both Palo Alto and that most quintessential of gated communities, Pebble Beach, I consider myself well qualified to insist that there is a very big difference between the two.
The first is a city, which means it is clean, dirty, poor, rich, shoddy, magnificent, dangerous, safe, ugly, beautiful, filled with many dolts and the occasional genius; in other words, it has no gates.
The second is proudly (perhaps, increasingly, defiantly) gated, and thus a fortress: all that its denizens reject is excluded; all that they accept is lovingly embraced and then polished to a dazzling shine. If outsiders wish to see and even participate in some of this glory, they must pay the price of entrance. But even then they find themselves shunned: the country clubs within the gates have further, higher gates of their own.
No difference my eye.
But everyone believes that you’re anonymous, so stop posing.
(Well, no, it really didn't make any sense.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmTTy_MM5w
The photo here of the squinting Jesse Sebourn makes a nice juxtaposition next to the bearded lady at the top of the story to the left. I like this new format; it has so many zany possibilities!
All we need now is a monkey with a stove…
OOOOOOH, Reg, you got him!
(Well, no, it really didn’t make any sense.)
I only took the test to find out if I have any other ancestry in my family tree besides Italian. I found out I have minor Jewish ancestry, but I am still predominantly Italian.Replies: @Anonymous, @5371
Those tests are a total fraud, if you had no reason to think you had Jewish ancestors before taking one, you still have no reason to think so.
Bonnie and Clyde were WASPs.
Scots Irish Covenanters were not restricted to the Southern states. Some, including some of my own ancestors, were settled in Vermont to serve as a buffer against Indian attacks for the English colonists in Massachusetts. Many Scots Irish settled in New Hampshire, too, which is why that state to this day has a markedly different political tradition from its neighbors (e.g. "Live Free or Die).
For those above who blame Scots Irish for perpetuating slavery, that is 100% incorrect. The Covenanters were among the most strident opponents of slavery, and it was the tidewater Cavaliers of southern English stock who fully embraced the plantation lifestyle. If some Scots Irish supported slavery (e.g. Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonewall Jackson), it was in spite of their ancestral tradition rather than because of it.
It's about time someone set the record straight on this matter, and people stopped using the term "Scots Irish" to refer to ignoramuses and low class whites, who are descended from every European ethnic group that made its way across the Atlantic. Not that low class people deserve abuse - I think the right thing to do is give them a helping hand and a good example to follow as Andrew Carnegie did - but to conflate them with Scots Irish is not only wrong, but kind of ignorant in itself.
BTW, someone mentioned that the Scandinavians are the best behaved whites. That's true to an extent among the old Lutheran communities, but remove them from that environment and they are the same as any other whites. Spend some time in Alaskan fishing ports and you'll see what I mean (I am a quarter Norwegian, BTW, so I have no animosity toward Scandinavians, but instead consider them kin).Replies: @syonredux
Actually, Fischer, in Albion’s Seed, provides a different definition.He calls them Border folk, Protestant Scots (the “native” Irish contribution is quite small) and English who immigrated to America from Ulster/the English-Scottish border and settled in the “back country” of North America (cf Albion’s Seed, 618-639).
As for Melville, as I noted upthread, his mother was of old New York Dutch ancestry and his father was descended from Scots who had immigrated to Boston. Dutch New York + Scots+ Puritan Boston does not equal “Scots-Irish.”
It's also natural that Dutch and Scots would easily intermarry, as many from each country were part of the Reformed Church and had a natural affinity for each other (e.g. Covenanters were generally big supporters of William of Orange). I have Dutch ancestors myself and that does nothing to diminish my sense of Scots Irish heritage, but rather affirms it.
As for the "native Irish" contingent (by which I assume you mean Goidelic), it's hard to say what exactly the contribution is to the Scots Irish mix. It's there, for sure, but whether it's more or less than Saxon by blood is an open question. The border people are a broad mix of Brythonic, Saxon, Norman and Goidelic peoples. Names like Wallace and Abernathy probably indicate Brythonic origin, Melville and Montgomery are clearly Norman, McDowell and Duncan are Gaelic, and Clark and Watson look English. All, however, are "Scottish" names that one can find throughout the Lowlands, and in several cases throughout the British Isles from County Kerry to Bristol.Replies: @syonredux
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother's maiden name is Blendheim.
By the way, from my experience, underclass white guys often have a certain look to them. Hard to describe the look, but I know it when I see it. Seabourn has the look for sure.
Here's another guy with that look: http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/spokane-county/2015/04/02/man-with-70-arrests-posts-bond/70823420/
I think assortive breeding often results in different classes assuming certain looks.Replies: @SFG, @anonymous, @duderino, @SteveO, @Perspective, @Anonym, @Rifleman, @Wally
“I did some research and it seems that Seabourn is caucasian on both sides.
His father has the Seabourn surname and his mother’s maiden name is Blendheim.”
Just his father & mother? That is hardly enough to say he’s not mixed.
He sure doesn’t look ‘white’. Rather George Zimmerman looking
Thanks.
Where did I say that it is a fact that Sebourn’s IQ is not 70?
Which is what I observed.An expert hired by the Defense has a strong motivation to produce a certain kind of result.
Sure it’s possible.I never said that it wasn’t.
I’m not in a court, dear fellow. I’m simply noting that American Whites with 70 IQs typically have organic retardation.And that means that they tend to be, as they say in psychometric circles, funny looking.
Here’s Cochran again:
Bonnie and Clyde were probably protestant wasps.
I read a book about the Valentine Days massacre called “Capone´s American boys”. I guess the dark Sicilian considered the whiter midwesterners more “American”. The Chicago Italian and Irish gangs used the wild country boys for the worst crimes. He used midwestern farm boys from missouri iowa indiana, not what we consider places to recruit gangster. Or guys from cities like or Kansas City or Omaha, Nebraska. There was a thriving white gang culture in all the midwestern cities that nowadays are as safe as can be. They killed cops and robbed banks and were wild bunch. These were German and Anglo men who were only a few generations removed from wild west intense types. The leader of the Valentine massacre was named Gus Winkler who was murdered by another gangster eventually. Pretty interesting read, and shows that whites were once very willing to be murderous gangbangers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Winkler
The Scots-Irish have their share of leaders and patriots. They also provide the white American population with much needed backbone. I'm glad we have them in this country, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with speculating if some white ethnic groups produce more underclass individuals than others.
The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota "nice" types.Replies: @Truth, @SFG, @OilcanFloyd
“The Scandanavians of Minnesota are the best behaved whites in America, but I bet most posters here would prefer more hard edged Scots-Irish types and fewer Minnesota “nice” types.”
Ever been to the Northwoods or the Iron Range?
I read a book about the Valentine Days massacre called "Capone´s American boys". I guess the dark Sicilian considered the whiter midwesterners more "American". The Chicago Italian and Irish gangs used the wild country boys for the worst crimes. He used midwestern farm boys from missouri iowa indiana, not what we consider places to recruit gangster. Or guys from cities like or Kansas City or Omaha, Nebraska. There was a thriving white gang culture in all the midwestern cities that nowadays are as safe as can be. They killed cops and robbed banks and were wild bunch. These were German and Anglo men who were only a few generations removed from wild west intense types. The leader of the Valentine massacre was named Gus Winkler who was murdered by another gangster eventually. Pretty interesting read, and shows that whites were once very willing to be murderous gangbangers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Winkler
http://www.amazon.com/Al-Capone-His-American-Boys/dp/0253009693Replies: @syonredux
And, as I noted upthread, Bonnie and Clyde (like John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, etc) have more in common with Jesse James than they do with Al Capone.
Wikipedia says “Religion Roman Catholic”
You don’t need gangs per se to be awash in people who subscribe to a criminally sympathetic and criminally active culture. The term “organized crime” has meaning precisely because crime is generally disorganized.
Gangs are a symptom of the organization of criminals and not necessarily of the extent of criminality that people often take it to be.
As for Melville, as I noted upthread, his mother was of old New York Dutch ancestry and his father was descended from Scots who had immigrated to Boston. Dutch New York + Scots+ Puritan Boston does not equal "Scots-Irish."Replies: @Bill P
Yes, he’s correct. Most of these border folk who immigrated either directly from Scotland or via Ulster were Protestant Scots (Presbyterian Covenanters). Some of the English who immigrated from Ireland were various other kinds of Protestant (e.g. CoI), but most of the “Irish” immigrants (as they were called at the time) were Scots Covenanters.
I’m aware of where Melville is from; my great grandmother on the maternal line was a New England Melville. That doesn’t change the fact that the Melvilles first arrived with the great wave of Presbyterian immigrants and were exactly the same people as the Scots Irish who ended up in places like Virginia. Yes, they were border folk, and many did originally settle in the “back country,” but not only in places like West Virginia and Kentucky. Often in places like New Hampshire, Vermont and upstate New York, too. And as in Melville’s case some of them made it into the big cities of Boston and Philadelphia. It was a matter of class as much as anything, and naturally the Ulster Scots who arrived were, as religious refugees, generally poor.
It’s also natural that Dutch and Scots would easily intermarry, as many from each country were part of the Reformed Church and had a natural affinity for each other (e.g. Covenanters were generally big supporters of William of Orange). I have Dutch ancestors myself and that does nothing to diminish my sense of Scots Irish heritage, but rather affirms it.
As for the “native Irish” contingent (by which I assume you mean Goidelic), it’s hard to say what exactly the contribution is to the Scots Irish mix. It’s there, for sure, but whether it’s more or less than Saxon by blood is an open question. The border people are a broad mix of Brythonic, Saxon, Norman and Goidelic peoples. Names like Wallace and Abernathy probably indicate Brythonic origin, Melville and Montgomery are clearly Norman, McDowell and Duncan are Gaelic, and Clark and Watson look English. All, however, are “Scottish” names that one can find throughout the Lowlands, and in several cases throughout the British Isles from County Kerry to Bristol.
Ulster: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000Replies: @Bill P
It's also natural that Dutch and Scots would easily intermarry, as many from each country were part of the Reformed Church and had a natural affinity for each other (e.g. Covenanters were generally big supporters of William of Orange). I have Dutch ancestors myself and that does nothing to diminish my sense of Scots Irish heritage, but rather affirms it.
As for the "native Irish" contingent (by which I assume you mean Goidelic), it's hard to say what exactly the contribution is to the Scots Irish mix. It's there, for sure, but whether it's more or less than Saxon by blood is an open question. The border people are a broad mix of Brythonic, Saxon, Norman and Goidelic peoples. Names like Wallace and Abernathy probably indicate Brythonic origin, Melville and Montgomery are clearly Norman, McDowell and Duncan are Gaelic, and Clark and Watson look English. All, however, are "Scottish" names that one can find throughout the Lowlands, and in several cases throughout the British Isles from County Kerry to Bristol.Replies: @syonredux
With or without the “e?”
Yes, I’ve commented on that as well.For example, they were a disruptive influence when they started arriving in Philadelphia, and James Logan made a point of settling then on the Western frontier of the colony, where their warlike ways could be put to good use (Albion’s Seed, 633).Things were quite similar in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.The Puritan English strongly encouraged the Ulster folk to leave Boston and settle elsewhere (cf, for example, the aptly named Londonderry, NH).
And, as I commented before, that removes a critical element from the Border folk cultural matrix.Since Thomas Melvill was raised in Boston, he did not partake in the Backcountry environment.The Border Folk matrix is : the Anglo-Scottish border+Ulster+ the American backcountry/frontier.Herman Melville is: Scottish immigrants+Boston+ NY Dutch.
By “Native Irish” I mean people who are ancestrally Irish.The people who immigrated from Ulster to mainland North America were mostly the descendants of Protestant English and Scots settlers in Ireland.They seldom intermarried with the Catholic Irish.
Via Albion’s Seed, sources of immigration for the Border Folk to North America, 1718-1775:
Ulster: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000
That's what I'd assume happened to most Scots Irish. Most of them did not remain in the Appalachians or backwoods, and those that did are not necessarily characteristic of the people as a whole. That's the point I'm trying to make here. Lots of people extrapolate Scots Irish from backwards hillbillies, and that's simply inaccurate.Well, I suppose it's unclear who among the Scots is ancestrally from Ireland these days (although surnames do provide a good clue), given that the Irish Scoti invaded Scotland about the same time the Saxons invaded England. But I know what you mean -- few of them come from the early modern Irish Catholic population. Still, a lot of people seem to think there's some racial proclivity to savagery and warfare among the Scots Irish, so I think it's important to spell out that they are the product of several different populations, and likely have at least as much Germanic blood as the English to the south, who are essentially a mix of Briton and Saxon, and therefore racially not much different from the border folk.
Ulster: 150,000
Scotland: 75,000
Northern England: 50,000Replies: @Bill P
I don’t know off the top of my head. I’d have to ask someone back in NY, most likely, because my grandmother, sadly, is no longer around to tell me. It’s a good question, and one I never thought to ask before.
I’m not sure it’s fair to call them “warlike” by nature so much as by circumstance. There was a campaign to exterminate them in the 17th century, you know. If they fought, it was because they had no choice, what with being sandwiched between the Catholic Highlanders and the CoE English, neither of whom were particularly well-disposed toward them. And I suppose they were shuffled out of the cities and into the wilderness not only because they were politically kind of a hot potato, but also because many of them were indigent and couldn’t afford land in the settled areas along the coast.
Maybe, but I don’t think it’s such a bright line. My grandfather’s family was originally from Vermont, and of Scots Irish heritage. At some point early in the 19th century, the family settled in Illinois, by which time there was some Dutch admixture. My grandfather’s grandfather was a doctor in Illinois, and his father was a New York newspaperman. While way back in the 18th century the family may have been frontier farmers and included some members of the “Green Mountain Boys” militia (according to family lore), that state of affairs clearly didn’t last long past the Revolution. Being part of the “border folk cultural matrix” didn’t leave much of a lasting cultural impact, it seems, as those who had the talent and ability quickly got an education and became “respectable” as soon as the circumstances afforded the opportunity.
That’s what I’d assume happened to most Scots Irish. Most of them did not remain in the Appalachians or backwoods, and those that did are not necessarily characteristic of the people as a whole. That’s the point I’m trying to make here. Lots of people extrapolate Scots Irish from backwards hillbillies, and that’s simply inaccurate.
Well, I suppose it’s unclear who among the Scots is ancestrally from Ireland these days (although surnames do provide a good clue), given that the Irish Scoti invaded Scotland about the same time the Saxons invaded England. But I know what you mean — few of them come from the early modern Irish Catholic population. Still, a lot of people seem to think there’s some racial proclivity to savagery and warfare among the Scots Irish, so I think it’s important to spell out that they are the product of several different populations, and likely have at least as much Germanic blood as the English to the south, who are essentially a mix of Briton and Saxon, and therefore racially not much different from the border folk.