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From BuzzFeed:

The 10-person jury found that Erdely acted with actual malice when the article was first published on Nov. 19, 2014, and Rolling Stone and Wenner Media acted with actual malice when the story was republished on Dec. 5, 2014.

The “actual malice” standard includes a reckless disregard for the truth. It’s clear from reading the Rolling Stone blood libel about gang rape on broken glass that Sabrina Rubin Erdely was motivated by malice –political, gender, ideological and ethnic — against Thomas Jefferson’s U. of Virginia, which she saw as dominated by Southern blond conservative men. That’s why she didn’t notice that Jackie Coakley’s tall tale was self-evidently absurd.

Here’s my Taki’s column from a couple of weeks ago on the trial.

Here’s Richard Bradley’s blog post on November 24, 2014 (with my comments) that kicked off the collapse of this house of cards.

Here’s my November 29, 2014 blog post, “Richard Bradley: Is the ‘Rolling Stone’ Story True?

Here’s my December 3, 2014 Taki’s column “A Rape Hoax for Book Lovers.”

Here’s my December 10, 2014 blog post “Going Going Gone Girl!” when T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post broke the story that Jackie Coakley had catfished rapist / dream date Haven Monahan (whose name hadn’t yet been revealed) into digital pseudo-existence to make a boy she liked jealous.

Here’s my December 17, 2014 Taki’s column “Clusterfake” putting it into the bigger perspective.

KC Johnson has a list of tweets from journalists to Sabrina Rubin Erdely praising her great work on her ludicrous article.

 
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  1. As usual, the best analysis comes from fake North Koreans: https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/794606963531378693

    “Guilty” verdict against US magazine Rolling Stone expected to put a final end to childish fad of so-called “rock and roll” music.

  2. • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @eah

    Campus rapes are a 'pervasive national problem' at Big Football colleges with lots of Diversity.

    Thank you, Diversity!

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Forbes

    , @Opinionator
    @eah

    That's the exact word that RS used in its post-verdict press release. Media zombies.

    , @Veracitor
    @eah

    Fake but accurate!

    , @anon
    @eah

    T Rees Shapiro grabbed onto this like a dog with a bone, once the story got some traction.

    However, he wasn't the first Washington Post reporter to comment on this.

    By Paul Farhi December 1, 2014


    The writer of a blockbuster Rolling Stone magazine story about an alleged gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity has said that she was unable to contact or interview the men who supposedly perpetrated the crime.

    In interviews with The Washington Post and Slate.com last week, writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely declined to answer repeated questions about the men’s response to an allegation by a female student named Jackie that they had sexually assaulted her at a U-Va. fraternity party in 2012.
     

    This was published in the Post Style Section.

    Note that it still follows Bradley/Sailor by a week. I have mixed feelings about Shapiro. The Post was the logical paper to do some of the real reporting, given they are a 2 1/2 hour drive away. Plus, Shapiro seemed to bring a team of junior reporters/interns to do the footwork. But once the story started falling apart, it was a slam dunk for any reporting organization who put the resources on it.

    Its a certainty that Slate wasn't going to find a problem with the narrative. Farhi had the right instincts. This was at a time when there was very little skepticism about the substance of the article.

    Eric Wimple followed with this on December 2.


    For the sake of Rolling Stone’s reputation, Sabrina Rubin Erdely had better be the country’s greatest judge of character. On Nov. 19, the magazine published Erdely’s story about a ghastly alleged gang rape at the stately Phi Kappa Psi fraternity at the University of Virginia. The victim, Jackie, was taken into a dark Phi Kappa Psi room in the early weeks of the 2012 school year and raped by seven men while her date, the pseudonymous “Drew,” and one other man provided “instruction and encouragement,” the story claims.

     

    Until Christmas break, if I recall correctly, the University was still self immolating over this. And there was the belief that even if it didn't happen, it 'could' have happened, given the Fratboy Culture. To find anything remotely like a real frat boy, you probably have to look at one of the top SEC Football schools. Of course, they actually have a traditional interest party culture and drunken sex to bother with the vexing questions regarding consent during drunken copulation. If the male is drunk also, then the notion of intent is called into question

    Replies: @Drahthaar

    , @anon
    @eah

    U Va is a 'public ivy' -- not a football school. It is also highly selective -- with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party -- somehow -- I can't believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists -- it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway. And given that no one seems to be complaining at these places, it makes me wonder. This excludes, of course, sexual assault by black scholarship athletes. I defer to Tom Wolfe

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @Jack D
    @eah

    The story was fake but accurate. Just like the Dan Rather report on the Bush National Guard letters. In a couple of years they will make a move showing Erdely as a brave journalistic martyr who was sold out by suit wearing white men.

    , @Tex
    @eah

    The Narrative never suffers a loss, just rain-outs.

  3. Well good. They had acted recklessly, and should have realized the damage that they would cause on the tertiary characters in the story.
    I honestly hope that Erdley never writes another investigative story again. Have her stick to fiction or training manuals.

    • Replies: @Chicago Girl
    @Half Canadian

    Please keep her away from writing training manuals. She might put a company's processes or workers' safety at risk by inventing what she thinks would help convey a deeper message.

    , @Olorin
    @Half Canadian

    For what it's worth she never wrote an "investigative story" in her tawdry career.

    https://riversong.wordpress.com/journalistic-fabulism-and-ideological-agendas/

    Just a bunch of lurid fictions with the unifying mythos of how evil founding stock American whites are.

    If you look at her other piles of dung--suburban white mommy heroin addicts, suburban white mommy whores, poor innocent church boys of tawny complexion luridly raped by Catholic priests--you will see how thoroughly she inhabits this mythic cosmos and uses "journalism" to inflict it on others whom she despises.

  4. The defense team for Rolling Stone pushed jurors to consider whether the magazine acted with “actual malice,” meaning that the staff had serious doubts about the accuracy of what was in the story before publication.

    So the George Constanza, “it’s not a lie, if you believe it” defense doesn’t quite work yet.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Barnard

    I suspect the jury figured that if it's an obvious lie but you didn't notice it was a lie because of how much you hate the person and what she represents, then it qualifies as actual malice.

    That seems relevant to the more far-fetched interpretations of various leaks about Hillary.

  5. Did Trump just win?

  6. Wow. I was really hoping to wake up Saturday morning to discover 100s of new comments on iSteve because of a Friday revelation damaging Hillary, and this is it…

    • Replies: @antipater_1
    @Chrisnonymous

    That's because Steve's mind has become locked into an 8 cycle infinite loop with Gulenistic-Erdelyistic-golfcourseistic tendencies. Poor bastard. Sad. But I suppose it happens to every man eventually.

    Replies: @NOTA

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Chrisnonymous


    because of a Friday revelation damaging Hillary, and this is it…
     
    Yes, because a duplicitous, Saul Alinsky, Left-wing outlet receiving justice has nothing to do with a a duplicitous, Saul Alinsky, Left-wing candidate running for president.

    Right, got it now.

    BTW, whose side are you on?
  7. Couldn’t happen to a nicer person. The judge tried to stack the deck and malice was still proven. Maybe people are wising up to how vile the media is.

  8. Sir, I believe I speak for everyone when I say thank you for your service.

  9. I was going to refer you to Nick Lowe ” I love the sound of breaking glass” and ” Cruel to be kind”. Unfortunately. YouTube and I are not on good terms. But, if you’re able, please refer to the above.

  10. @Barnard

    The defense team for Rolling Stone pushed jurors to consider whether the magazine acted with “actual malice,” meaning that the staff had serious doubts about the accuracy of what was in the story before publication.
     
    So the George Constanza, "it's not a lie, if you believe it" defense doesn't quite work yet.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I suspect the jury figured that if it’s an obvious lie but you didn’t notice it was a lie because of how much you hate the person and what she represents, then it qualifies as actual malice.

    That seems relevant to the more far-fetched interpretations of various leaks about Hillary.

    • Agree: Barnard, snorlax, syonredux, NOTA
  11. Nice weather outside…..

    let’s see if this post makes it to the board!?

  12. @eah

    Campus rapes are a ‘pervasive national problem’ at Big Football colleges with lots of Diversity.

    Thank you, Diversity!

    • Replies: @Louis Renault
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    You will know it is a real problem when they warn women students that they are entering a rape zone.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce, @Olorin, @Bill Jones

    , @Forbes
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    You'll know it's a real problem when entrance applications from females fall off...

  13. @eah

    That’s the exact word that RS used in its post-verdict press release. Media zombies.

  14. In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award.

    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Karl
    @iffen

    > In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award


    In the pretend-white-nationalist world, people write comments on a blog bitching about the absence of a paper journalism award to a good journalist.

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @iffen

  15. It’s very amusing that Steve Sailer and (to a lesser extent) Richard Bradley are usually left out when the entire UVA/Rolling Stone hoax is written about by most journalists. I don’t think T Rees Shapiro has ever mentioned Sailer’s name in one of his WaPo articles and I think he’s mentioned Bradley once. Of course the amusing part is that even people who agree with your arguments and journalism regarding one subject will discount you if they hate your other politics or philosophy enough. I disagree with the premises behind gay rights and Islamophobia-blaming, but that doesn’t mean I dismiss someone who espouses them, like Glenn Greenwald, when tackling an issue when I am in agreement. “Libertarian” spinster Cathy Young is a good example of this erasure (SJW buzzword alert!), as are many other Reasonites. I never understood this kind of mentality.

    The cognitive dissonance in this type of person is hilarious.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @John Wesley

    The "libertarians" of Reason would be much more accurately classed as "Libertines"

    Replies: @snorlax, @Lyov Myshkin

    , @Opinionator
    @John Wesley

    I grade T. Rees Shapiro's journalistic work on this whole story a C+. Very little innovation, he merely followed the pathway that led out obviously in front of him. And he continued to hang onto the RS narrative in some respects and omit important details even after the coverage cranked up that it was a hoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @2Mintzin1
    @John Wesley

    My guess is that Shapiro, like many MSM journalists, is well aware that a favorable mention of Sailer or Bradley in the Post would be good exposure, and thus worth notoriety, and money, to the mentionee. Neither blogger is a SJW, however, and thus does not deserve this benefit.

    That's why he won't do it.

  16. @John Wesley
    It's very amusing that Steve Sailer and (to a lesser extent) Richard Bradley are usually left out when the entire UVA/Rolling Stone hoax is written about by most journalists. I don't think T Rees Shapiro has ever mentioned Sailer's name in one of his WaPo articles and I think he's mentioned Bradley once. Of course the amusing part is that even people who agree with your arguments and journalism regarding one subject will discount you if they hate your other politics or philosophy enough. I disagree with the premises behind gay rights and Islamophobia-blaming, but that doesn't mean I dismiss someone who espouses them, like Glenn Greenwald, when tackling an issue when I am in agreement. "Libertarian" spinster Cathy Young is a good example of this erasure (SJW buzzword alert!), as are many other Reasonites. I never understood this kind of mentality.

    The cognitive dissonance in this type of person is hilarious.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Opinionator, @2Mintzin1

    The “libertarians” of Reason would be much more accurately classed as “Libertines”

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @snorlax
    @Bill Jones

    They probably imagine themselves as bad boy rock star sex symbols, but the reality is quite a bit more dweebish.

    , @Lyov Myshkin
    @Bill Jones

    All Matt Welch and Nick Gillespie seem to be good for these days is being invited on Bill Maher's show to laugh like good little Sambo's at whatever the left decides is worthy of scorn.

  17. This is truly good news. I’m sure there is no possible way the verdict will be overturned or the award reduced to $1. Of course, I’m also positive that Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart are both still among the living, so my judgment may be somewhat suspect. Nevertheless, I suppose we should still celebrate victories no matter how transient.

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    @NoWeltschmerz

    Exactly. Given our corrupt Justice system the whole jury verdict can be overturned for the most trivial reasons. The appeals will drag on for years.

  18. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    T Rees Shapiro grabbed onto this like a dog with a bone, once the story got some traction.

    However, he wasn’t the first Washington Post reporter to comment on this.

    By Paul Farhi December 1, 2014

    The writer of a blockbuster Rolling Stone magazine story about an alleged gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity has said that she was unable to contact or interview the men who supposedly perpetrated the crime.

    In interviews with The Washington Post and Slate.com last week, writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely declined to answer repeated questions about the men’s response to an allegation by a female student named Jackie that they had sexually assaulted her at a U-Va. fraternity party in 2012.

    This was published in the Post Style Section.

    Note that it still follows Bradley/Sailor by a week. I have mixed feelings about Shapiro. The Post was the logical paper to do some of the real reporting, given they are a 2 1/2 hour drive away. Plus, Shapiro seemed to bring a team of junior reporters/interns to do the footwork. But once the story started falling apart, it was a slam dunk for any reporting organization who put the resources on it.

    Its a certainty that Slate wasn’t going to find a problem with the narrative. Farhi had the right instincts. This was at a time when there was very little skepticism about the substance of the article.

    Eric Wimple followed with this on December 2.

    For the sake of Rolling Stone’s reputation, Sabrina Rubin Erdely had better be the country’s greatest judge of character. On Nov. 19, the magazine published Erdely’s story about a ghastly alleged gang rape at the stately Phi Kappa Psi fraternity at the University of Virginia. The victim, Jackie, was taken into a dark Phi Kappa Psi room in the early weeks of the 2012 school year and raped by seven men while her date, the pseudonymous “Drew,” and one other man provided “instruction and encouragement,” the story claims.

    Until Christmas break, if I recall correctly, the University was still self immolating over this. And there was the belief that even if it didn’t happen, it ‘could’ have happened, given the Fratboy Culture. To find anything remotely like a real frat boy, you probably have to look at one of the top SEC Football schools. Of course, they actually have a traditional interest party culture and drunken sex to bother with the vexing questions regarding consent during drunken copulation. If the male is drunk also, then the notion of intent is called into question

    • Replies: @Drahthaar
    @anon

    Yes, in hindsight, T. Rees Shapiro has received too much credit for his key reportage, Sailer not enough. Undoubtedly Shapiro was keying into Sailer to make his points early in the game. Still, the Washington Post deserves credit for its enterprise. The invented rape went unquestioned by most media, stoked by UVA president and bacchante feminists, all to advance, protect, enforce a false narrative. In a perfect world the Phi Psis will now bleed RS dry and UVA will fire the grotesque, moronic Teresa Sullivan, who was in cahoots with Erdely.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  19. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @eah

    Campus rapes are a 'pervasive national problem' at Big Football colleges with lots of Diversity.

    Thank you, Diversity!

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Forbes

    You will know it is a real problem when they warn women students that they are entering a rape zone.

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @Louis Renault

    I sent No. 1 Daughter Gryce there this fall. In fact, we're visiting her this weekend.

    Replies: @Opinionator

    , @Olorin
    @Louis Renault

    And allow--and encourage--those women to carry firearms on campus, and train with them for credit.

    What we hear about again and again is girls who can't hold their liquor, waking up the next day unsure what happened and ashamed, confused, angry, resentful, etc.

    What we don't hear about, or hear only in massaged bits, is the actual rapes, and who is actually doing them. It's not white frat boys at UVA.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Bill Jones
    @Louis Renault

    And will the White House be declared a "Rape Zone" if Hillary wins?

  20. Remarkable that Bradley opened his first post talking about Glass fooling him with Vern Jordan’s lechery and Terry McAuliffe’s fundraising, as Jordan has been a frequent counter-point to Clinton’s denunciation of Trump in the Billy Bush tape and McAuliffe’s donation to the FBI wife was a major story recently.

  21. @Bill Jones
    @John Wesley

    The "libertarians" of Reason would be much more accurately classed as "Libertines"

    Replies: @snorlax, @Lyov Myshkin

    They probably imagine themselves as bad boy rock star sex symbols, but the reality is quite a bit more dweebish.

  22. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    U Va is a ‘public ivy’ — not a football school. It is also highly selective — with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party — somehow — I can’t believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists — it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway. And given that no one seems to be complaining at these places, it makes me wonder. This excludes, of course, sexual assault by black scholarship athletes. I defer to Tom Wolfe

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @anon


    U Va is a ‘public ivy’ — not a football school. It is also highly selective — with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party — somehow — I can’t believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists — it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway.
     
    People who have experience, rather than speculative opinions, will tell you you're wrong. When I was at Brown, there were one or two frats at Brown where there was a "rape culture". And a law school classmate, a little sister of what she considered the top fraternity at Duke, reported on a train of a passed-out girl by a dozen guys in that house. That's not to say it's not the same or worse at lower-ranked schools, but your hypothesis about "top" schools conflicts with the facts.

    Replies: @Opinionator

  23. If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer. Baylor had the 2003 basketball teammate murder, RG3 was extorted by a basketball player, and in 2014 a former football player was sentenced to 20 years for rape. All of that should have been a clue that there was more than bible studying and choir practice going on.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Triumph104

    Call me a hater, but every flipping church scandal that ever occurred in my neck of the woods involved Southern Baptist Convention officials, preachers, and youth leaders- every single time. The more they witnessed to me with that used car salesman gleam in their eyes, the more disdainful I got.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @David In TN
    @Triumph104

    "If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer."

    Sabrina Erdely has no interest in a rape story with the kind of suspects in the Baylor case.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  24. @NoWeltschmerz
    This is truly good news. I'm sure there is no possible way the verdict will be overturned or the award reduced to $1. Of course, I'm also positive that Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart are both still among the living, so my judgment may be somewhat suspect. Nevertheless, I suppose we should still celebrate victories no matter how transient.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

    Exactly. Given our corrupt Justice system the whole jury verdict can be overturned for the most trivial reasons. The appeals will drag on for years.

  25. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @eah

    Campus rapes are a 'pervasive national problem' at Big Football colleges with lots of Diversity.

    Thank you, Diversity!

    Replies: @Louis Renault, @Forbes

    You’ll know it’s a real problem when entrance applications from females fall off…

  26. I wonder if Sabrina Erdley applied to UVA and was rejected for admission, engendering a smoldering rage at the institution.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Daniel H

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn't get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Almost Missouri, @Olorin

  27. Libertarian Fonzie, aka Nick Gillespie, is always good for a few laughs.

  28. And Coakley goes free after all this. No false reports, no slander trial, she just walks away? She keeps her degree, from a school with an “Honor” council that once forced Teddy Kennedy off the campus for cheating an exam. WTF?

    • Replies: @Karl
    @Jim Christian

    > She [Jaky Coakley] keeps her degree

    she dropped out that same year, as I recall. She went back home to the boondocks and married a local-yokel boy.

    Her father is probably relieved that he didn't have to pay for 4 years of college in order to get married off.

    , @Hibernian
    @Jim Christian

    Teddy Kennedy was booted out of Harvard (undergrad) for cheating. He may have gone to U Va. for law school. (Bobby did for sure.) I think one of them, probably Teddy, was charged with speeding and/or DUI in Charlottesville.)

    Replies: @David In TN

    , @NOTA
    @Jim Christian

    Most media outlets are losing money hand over fist, as all their ad revenue moves over to Google and Facebook. They don't generally have deep pockets for fighting this kind of lawsuit. So imagine how easy it is going to be for Erdely to get future articles published. ("Say, isn't she the one that damned near put Rolling Stone out of business?")

  29. Steve, you’ve done yeoman’s work on this subject. Your wry promotion of the boogeyman concept of “Haven Monahan” has been invaluable. The “Who? Whom?” motivations behind Rubin Erdely’s and Wenner’s witch hunt, the UPenn Stephen “Shattered” Glass prelude, Jackie Coakley’s adolescent world of make-believe colliding with misplaced “rape culture” hysteria, it’s an amazing story that ties together many things that you’ve observed for years, paralleled in other occurrences.

    The Pulitzer for Steve!

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Since we're going about creating a parralel Alt-Right nation and society, perhaps our Pulizter could be "The Sailer Prize"?

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @Olorin
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    At some point this sort of award will have to materialize, though I pity da foos who would be on the judges' panels, sifting and winnowing.

    Still, with the upcoming expected attempts to crystallize DE, Alt-Right, New Right, Dissident Right, etc., opinion and reporting into new media nodes, notice for those who pioneered, developed, and excelled at them will have to follow. I hope our host is on the short list.

    Never mind the model of the Pulitzer Prize, which has been of dubious merit for nearly all my adult life. ***

    Cattle-prodding the whorish (or more accurately courtesanal) MSM into probity, and Zen-slapping them till they see juggalo Care Bears when they've gone astray, deserves its own award.

    Something like Guardian of the Stoa. Or perhaps more accurately Areopagite, and by that I mean the kind Isocrates and Herodotus wrote about, not the 6th century kind.

    *** Janet Cooke's Pulitzer hoax, 1980:
    http://jclass.umd.edu/archive/newshoax/casestudies/journalists/JourJim4a.html

  30. @Triumph104
    If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer. Baylor had the 2003 basketball teammate murder, RG3 was extorted by a basketball player, and in 2014 a former football player was sentenced to 20 years for rape. All of that should have been a clue that there was more than bible studying and choir practice going on.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @David In TN

    Call me a hater, but every flipping church scandal that ever occurred in my neck of the woods involved Southern Baptist Convention officials, preachers, and youth leaders- every single time. The more they witnessed to me with that used car salesman gleam in their eyes, the more disdainful I got.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    These personality types exist everywhere. In the rural South, they'll be SBC officials, preachers, and youth leaders. In the urban Northeast, investment bankers.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

  31. Once its flaws were exposed, the article’s deeper message of the effects of campus rape — a pervasive national problem — was lost amid the allegations of unscrupulous reporting.

    Actually the article and the ensuing libel case exposed the pervasive national problem of activists claiming that there is a “rape culture” on US campuses, without ever really being able to identify which colleges in which states are the epicenters of the imaginary rape culture.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    In the Post, right after the "pervasive national problem" line, they give a link to this story:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women-say-they-were-violated/

    which peddles the "1 in 5" line. Except when you read the story, they stretch the definition of sexual assault beyond all meaning, to include, for example, incidents where the girl "doesn't remember" what happened the night before, so it "might" be sexual assault. By their own admission, 2/3s of these "sexual assaults" occur when the girl has consumed (mass quantities) of alcohol. We don't have a sexual assault problem - we have a female drinking problem.

    Girls - if you wake up the next morning in bed next to a guy and you we so drunk that you can't remember whether it was sexual assault or not, this is how you can tell - if the guy is really cute and has breakfast with you and asks you out again, it wasn't. Otherwise, it was. But there's no rush - wait a couple of dates and see how it goes before you decide whether you were sexually assaulted.

  32. @eah

    The story was fake but accurate. Just like the Dan Rather report on the Bush National Guard letters. In a couple of years they will make a move showing Erdely as a brave journalistic martyr who was sold out by suit wearing white men.

  33. @anon
    @eah

    T Rees Shapiro grabbed onto this like a dog with a bone, once the story got some traction.

    However, he wasn't the first Washington Post reporter to comment on this.

    By Paul Farhi December 1, 2014


    The writer of a blockbuster Rolling Stone magazine story about an alleged gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity has said that she was unable to contact or interview the men who supposedly perpetrated the crime.

    In interviews with The Washington Post and Slate.com last week, writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely declined to answer repeated questions about the men’s response to an allegation by a female student named Jackie that they had sexually assaulted her at a U-Va. fraternity party in 2012.
     

    This was published in the Post Style Section.

    Note that it still follows Bradley/Sailor by a week. I have mixed feelings about Shapiro. The Post was the logical paper to do some of the real reporting, given they are a 2 1/2 hour drive away. Plus, Shapiro seemed to bring a team of junior reporters/interns to do the footwork. But once the story started falling apart, it was a slam dunk for any reporting organization who put the resources on it.

    Its a certainty that Slate wasn't going to find a problem with the narrative. Farhi had the right instincts. This was at a time when there was very little skepticism about the substance of the article.

    Eric Wimple followed with this on December 2.


    For the sake of Rolling Stone’s reputation, Sabrina Rubin Erdely had better be the country’s greatest judge of character. On Nov. 19, the magazine published Erdely’s story about a ghastly alleged gang rape at the stately Phi Kappa Psi fraternity at the University of Virginia. The victim, Jackie, was taken into a dark Phi Kappa Psi room in the early weeks of the 2012 school year and raped by seven men while her date, the pseudonymous “Drew,” and one other man provided “instruction and encouragement,” the story claims.

     

    Until Christmas break, if I recall correctly, the University was still self immolating over this. And there was the belief that even if it didn't happen, it 'could' have happened, given the Fratboy Culture. To find anything remotely like a real frat boy, you probably have to look at one of the top SEC Football schools. Of course, they actually have a traditional interest party culture and drunken sex to bother with the vexing questions regarding consent during drunken copulation. If the male is drunk also, then the notion of intent is called into question

    Replies: @Drahthaar

    Yes, in hindsight, T. Rees Shapiro has received too much credit for his key reportage, Sailer not enough. Undoubtedly Shapiro was keying into Sailer to make his points early in the game. Still, the Washington Post deserves credit for its enterprise. The invented rape went unquestioned by most media, stoked by UVA president and bacchante feminists, all to advance, protect, enforce a false narrative. In a perfect world the Phi Psis will now bleed RS dry and UVA will fire the grotesque, moronic Teresa Sullivan, who was in cahoots with Erdely.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Drahthaar


    UVA will fire the grotesque, moronic Teresa Sullivan
     
    They already did, but she came back undead.

    Who was the gal there with the White House connection? She was likely the main instigator.
  34. @Daniel H
    I wonder if Sabrina Erdley applied to UVA and was rejected for admission, engendering a smoldering rage at the institution.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn’t get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Jack D


    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn’t get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.
     
    I say this as someone with a million Penn degrees in the family: Penn isn't that much better. And, as a state school, UVA has double standards for admission, and it's possible that its standard for out-of-state students is higher than Penn's generally applicable standard. I can tell you that I, as an out-of-state applicant, was able to get into Harvard Law but not UVA law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Taco

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D

    Besides what ben tillman wrote, I also think that UVa has a certain glamour that Penn lacks: Thomas Jefferson, the Honor Code, pretty campus. This may be a larger factor with females than with more league-table minded males. Perhaps there is some pop culture thing that references UVa. I notice its alums have mystical attachment to it that Penn's lack.

    , @Olorin
    @Jack D

    Penn is harder to get into, accepting about 10% of undergrad applicants compared to UVA's 30% or thereabouts. Penn's tuition is about $48K (undergrad) for both in- and out-of-state students. UVA's in-state is about $13,000, out of state about $45,000. Class sizes are much smaller. Penn's 25th-75th percentile SAT range bottoms out within 100 points of the top of UVA's.

    But they are very different schools both now and historically. Rubin was admitted to Penn as a pre-med student intending to study psychiatry; she didn't hack it and quickly switched to a major in English, later writing for the student newspaper's magazine and freelancing after graduation till she found her formula of maliciously deriding and blood-libeling white founding stock Americans and institutions in the guise of "investigative journalism."

    I seriously doubt she would even have considered UVA for one reason: Sabrina Rubin is very Jewish, and UVA is not. Penn surely is, at least in many of its departments. Her antipathy to UVA is precisely, explicitly, simply genetic, cultural, ethnic, or call it what you will. This is a theme that runs through all her myths.

    Look here for yet another glimpse into her internal landscape:

    http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/IvyLeague.pdf

    http://variety.com/2013/film/news/lovelace-directors-on-the-girl-who-conned-the-ivy-league-1200406083/

    http://screenrant.com/girl-who-conned-ivy-league-movie-crosen-49104/

    See? It's shiksas from Montana who are con artists!

  35. @John Wesley
    It's very amusing that Steve Sailer and (to a lesser extent) Richard Bradley are usually left out when the entire UVA/Rolling Stone hoax is written about by most journalists. I don't think T Rees Shapiro has ever mentioned Sailer's name in one of his WaPo articles and I think he's mentioned Bradley once. Of course the amusing part is that even people who agree with your arguments and journalism regarding one subject will discount you if they hate your other politics or philosophy enough. I disagree with the premises behind gay rights and Islamophobia-blaming, but that doesn't mean I dismiss someone who espouses them, like Glenn Greenwald, when tackling an issue when I am in agreement. "Libertarian" spinster Cathy Young is a good example of this erasure (SJW buzzword alert!), as are many other Reasonites. I never understood this kind of mentality.

    The cognitive dissonance in this type of person is hilarious.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Opinionator, @2Mintzin1

    I grade T. Rees Shapiro’s journalistic work on this whole story a C+. Very little innovation, he merely followed the pathway that led out obviously in front of him. And he continued to hang onto the RS narrative in some respects and omit important details even after the coverage cranked up that it was a hoax.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Opinionator

    Shapiro found that it was catfishing.

    Replies: @Opinionator

  36. KC Johnson has a pretty long list of all the journalists who slurped up the hate hoax. MSM clearly wanted the story to be true.

    https://academicwonderland.com/2016/07/07/celebrating-erdely-as-a-journalist/

  37. @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Triumph104

    Call me a hater, but every flipping church scandal that ever occurred in my neck of the woods involved Southern Baptist Convention officials, preachers, and youth leaders- every single time. The more they witnessed to me with that used car salesman gleam in their eyes, the more disdainful I got.

    Replies: @SFG

    These personality types exist everywhere. In the rural South, they’ll be SBC officials, preachers, and youth leaders. In the urban Northeast, investment bankers.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    @SFG

    The ones I've met from the Northeast with that personality were professional "activists"- their version of Tartuffe/Elmer Gantry.

  38. @Opinionator
    @John Wesley

    I grade T. Rees Shapiro's journalistic work on this whole story a C+. Very little innovation, he merely followed the pathway that led out obviously in front of him. And he continued to hang onto the RS narrative in some respects and omit important details even after the coverage cranked up that it was a hoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Shapiro found that it was catfishing.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @Steve Sailer

    An isteve reader is hardly in a position to request information from you, given all that you do already. But...if you have at your fingertips the article where the catfishing story supposedly broke, I'd like to read it again. My recollection is that it emerged in the Washington Post obliquely, tentatively, slowly, while there were ample grounds to give it explicit, prominent treatment.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  39. “Once its flaws were exposed, the article’s deeper message of the effects of campus rape — a pervasive national problem — was lost amid the allegations of unscrupulous reporting.” Shapiro conformed to the false narrative today, or very possibly, his own editor inserted:

    — a pervasive national problem —

    to keep the flame alive, and because that’s what WP editors are for.

  40. @Steve Sailer
    @Opinionator

    Shapiro found that it was catfishing.

    Replies: @Opinionator

    An isteve reader is hardly in a position to request information from you, given all that you do already. But…if you have at your fingertips the article where the catfishing story supposedly broke, I’d like to read it again. My recollection is that it emerged in the Washington Post obliquely, tentatively, slowly, while there were ample grounds to give it explicit, prominent treatment.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Opinionator

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/jackies-story-going-going-gone-girl/

    Replies: @Opinionator

  41. An important lesson which RS and Erdely did not learn – the first rule of holes is to stop digging. Among the factors which led to the finding of malice (and future increases in damages):

    1. In an email to a Post reporter (Shapiro?) when questions about her reporting were already being raised, Erdely wrote that Jackie came forward with her account “only to be met with indifference.”

    2. On Dec. 5, 2014 (when the story was already falling apart) RS posted an editor’s note at the top of the story(which however remained up on their site) acknowledging that there had been doubts cast on Jackie’s account, but an official retraction (and take down from the web) did not come until April. The jury found that by keeping the article up online in its entirety — while simultaneously acknowledging its flawed reporting — Rolling Stone editors knew that the article was false but published it again anyway, a key indicator of actual malice.

    When you’re accused of being a liar, it’s a natural tendency to deny, deny and throw more dirt onto the other side, but in the legal context, at some point it’s better to say, “We’ve made a horrible mistake and are so sorry” and hope that they will go easy on you. I think RS was so blinded by its holy mission against campus rape (and Erdely’s hatred of blonds) that they couldn’t bear to pull the plug on their baby even after it had flatlined.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Jack D

    My guess is that Erdeley and her employers had drunk the koolaid, and genuinely believed the story. The RS editors probably keyed off her certainty and decided to stick with the story.

  42. @SFG
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    These personality types exist everywhere. In the rural South, they'll be SBC officials, preachers, and youth leaders. In the urban Northeast, investment bankers.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

    The ones I’ve met from the Northeast with that personality were professional “activists”- their version of Tartuffe/Elmer Gantry.

  43. @iffen
    In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award.

    Replies: @Karl

    > In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award

    In the pretend-white-nationalist world, people write comments on a blog bitching about the absence of a paper journalism award to a good journalist.

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @Karl

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    How common is this? And how do you know whether the cash actually reaches the intended recipient?

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Karl


    In the pretend...
     
    world of fever swamps there are occasional posters offering posts where their recorded body temperatures are > 105 degrees Fahrenheit. That is, hallucinations unhinged, and unrelated to, reality.

    BTW, you can keep your $20.
    , @iffen
    @Karl

    In the real world, sending $20 to Steve to help buy bunny food will not challenge the hold that the MSM have as interpreter and implementer of reality and those representatives of the “Hebrew-ethnic world” embedded in that MSM don’t need an extra $20. They do quite well financially, thank you very much.

  44. @Jonathan Mason

    Once its flaws were exposed, the article’s deeper message of the effects of campus rape — a pervasive national problem — was lost amid the allegations of unscrupulous reporting.
     
    Actually the article and the ensuing libel case exposed the pervasive national problem of activists claiming that there is a "rape culture" on US campuses, without ever really being able to identify which colleges in which states are the epicenters of the imaginary rape culture.

    Replies: @Jack D

    In the Post, right after the “pervasive national problem” line, they give a link to this story:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women-say-they-were-violated/

    which peddles the “1 in 5” line. Except when you read the story, they stretch the definition of sexual assault beyond all meaning, to include, for example, incidents where the girl “doesn’t remember” what happened the night before, so it “might” be sexual assault. By their own admission, 2/3s of these “sexual assaults” occur when the girl has consumed (mass quantities) of alcohol. We don’t have a sexual assault problem – we have a female drinking problem.

    Girls – if you wake up the next morning in bed next to a guy and you we so drunk that you can’t remember whether it was sexual assault or not, this is how you can tell – if the guy is really cute and has breakfast with you and asks you out again, it wasn’t. Otherwise, it was. But there’s no rush – wait a couple of dates and see how it goes before you decide whether you were sexually assaulted.

    • Agree: Triumph104
    • LOL: snorlax
  45. @Louis Renault
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    You will know it is a real problem when they warn women students that they are entering a rape zone.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce, @Olorin, @Bill Jones

    I sent No. 1 Daughter Gryce there this fall. In fact, we’re visiting her this weekend.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @Percy Gryce

    If you relayed her perspective on the rape culture there, a number of us might be interested.

  46. Anonymous [AKA "Bigot"] says:

    Charles Johnson is giving himself quite a huge pat on the back over this. Did he do anything to deserve it? I know Steve was all over this but I don’t remember much from Chuck. Was he the one who discovered “Haven Monahan”?

    • Replies: @L Woods
    @Anonymous

    Chuck Johnson is in the habit of giving himself a pat on the back for just about everything. How much validity there is to his boasting is difficult to discern.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Anonymous

    Charles Johnson is Haven Monahan. He just doesn't know it.

  47. @Jim Christian
    And Coakley goes free after all this. No false reports, no slander trial, she just walks away? She keeps her degree, from a school with an "Honor" council that once forced Teddy Kennedy off the campus for cheating an exam. WTF?

    Replies: @Karl, @Hibernian, @NOTA

    > She [Jaky Coakley] keeps her degree

    she dropped out that same year, as I recall. She went back home to the boondocks and married a local-yokel boy.

    Her father is probably relieved that he didn’t have to pay for 4 years of college in order to get married off.

  48. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Steve, you’ve done yeoman’s work on this subject. Your wry promotion of the boogeyman concept of “Haven Monahan” has been invaluable. The “Who? Whom?” motivations behind Rubin Erdely’s and Wenner’s witch hunt, the UPenn Stephen “Shattered” Glass prelude, Jackie Coakley’s adolescent world of make-believe colliding with misplaced “rape culture” hysteria, it’s an amazing story that ties together many things that you’ve observed for years, paralleled in other occurrences.

    The Pulitzer for Steve!

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Olorin

    Since we’re going about creating a parralel Alt-Right nation and society, perhaps our Pulizter could be “The Sailer Prize”?

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @BenKenobi

    Sure, provided that the Sailer Institute for Excellence charter and roster is/stays “explicitly right-wing.”

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  49. @Opinionator
    @Steve Sailer

    An isteve reader is hardly in a position to request information from you, given all that you do already. But...if you have at your fingertips the article where the catfishing story supposedly broke, I'd like to read it again. My recollection is that it emerged in the Washington Post obliquely, tentatively, slowly, while there were ample grounds to give it explicit, prominent treatment.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    Thanks for the link. Okay, Shapiro did the legwork in actually interviewing the friends (should have been basic journalism 101) and relating to readers their commentary, commentary from which one could infer catfishing.

    But Shapiro did not suggest catfishing explicitly or implicitly anywhere in the article. And his article contains omissions and a stylistic form that pushes the other way. For example:

    1. Shapiro apparently did not ask the friends why they were texting Drew. As you say, that's an odd thing to do. One theory: they thought her story was bs all along and were playing along in a way that sort of mocked Jackie among themselves behind her back.

    2. Shapiro refers to "Drew" as "the student", rather than the "sender" (of the texts) or the asserted/alleged/claimed/apparent student.

    3. Shapiro refers to Drew and the sender of the texts as a "he".

    4. Shapiro apparently did not ask the friends who they thought Drew was and whether they thought at the time of the alleged incident or at the time of the interview that "he" was in fact Jackie.

    If I recall, you were somewhat mystified in weeks or months after early December that the catfishing theme wasn't picked up by media covering the story. Shapiro's blindness or reticence in this watershed article is partly to blame for that.

  50. @Chrisnonymous
    Wow. I was really hoping to wake up Saturday morning to discover 100s of new comments on iSteve because of a Friday revelation damaging Hillary, and this is it...

    Replies: @antipater_1, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    That’s because Steve’s mind has become locked into an 8 cycle infinite loop with Gulenistic-Erdelyistic-golfcourseistic tendencies. Poor bastard. Sad. But I suppose it happens to every man eventually.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @antipater_1

    Eventually, Steve will figure out how the Gullenists are enticing illegal immigrants to convince transsexuals to push talented-tenth blacks into golf-course design, under the guidance of Haven Monnahan, and his work here will be done.

  51. @Anonymous
    Charles Johnson is giving himself quite a huge pat on the back over this. Did he do anything to deserve it? I know Steve was all over this but I don't remember much from Chuck. Was he the one who discovered "Haven Monahan"?

    Replies: @L Woods, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Chuck Johnson is in the habit of giving himself a pat on the back for just about everything. How much validity there is to his boasting is difficult to discern.

  52. @Jack D
    @Daniel H

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn't get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Almost Missouri, @Olorin

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn’t get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    I say this as someone with a million Penn degrees in the family: Penn isn’t that much better. And, as a state school, UVA has double standards for admission, and it’s possible that its standard for out-of-state students is higher than Penn’s generally applicable standard. I can tell you that I, as an out-of-state applicant, was able to get into Harvard Law but not UVA law.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @ben tillman

    Be that as it may, surely among the Erdelys Penn is considered far superior to UVa, so Jack's point stands.

    , @Taco
    @ben tillman

    You were yield protected.

  53. @BenKenobi
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Since we're going about creating a parralel Alt-Right nation and society, perhaps our Pulizter could be "The Sailer Prize"?

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Sure, provided that the Sailer Institute for Excellence charter and roster is/stays “explicitly right-wing.”

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Jenner Ickham Errican:

    It requires work to stay "explicitly right-wing"! John O'Sullivan pointed out many years ago that unless explicit efforts be made, institutions will become liberal/leftist. An egregious example of this is the MacArthur Foundation which started out with William Simon and other "conservatives" on its board of directors, but which was taken over by "the enemy" and now hands out big-time grants to an assortment of leftist crazies.

  54. Penn was typically the most Jewish of the Ivy League colleges, while UVA was associated with Thomas Jefferson. Here’s 1950s poet Karl Shapiro’s poem “University” about his one semester at UVA:

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/detail/22722

    University Related Poem Content Details
    BY KARL SHAPIRO
    To hurt the Negro and avoid the Jew
    Is the curriculum. In mid-September
    The entering boys, identified by hats,
    Wander in a maze of mannered brick
    Where boxwood and magnolia brood
    And columns with imperious stance
    Like rows of ante-bellum girls
    Eye them, outlanders.

    In whited cells, on lawns equipped for peace,
    Under the arch, and lofty banister,
    Equals shake hands, unequals blankly pass;
    The exemplary weather whispers, “Quiet, quiet”
    And visitors on tiptoe leave
    For the raw North, the unfinished West,
    As the young, detecting an advantage,
    Practice a face.

    Where, on their separate hill, the colleges,
    Like manor houses of an older law,
    Gaze down embankments on a land in fee,
    The Deans, dry spinsters over family plate,
    Ring out the English name like coin,
    Humor the snob and lure the lout.
    Within the precincts of this world
    Poise is a club.

    But on the neighboring range, misty and high,
    The past is absolute: some luckless race
    Dull with inbreeding and conformity
    Wears out its heart, and comes barefoot and bad
    For charity or jail. The scholar
    Sanctions their obsolete disease;
    The gentleman revolts with shame
    At his ancestor.

    And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting. Thanks

    , @drahthaar
    @Steve Sailer

    High Minded Jewish Goy-Prep-Fraternity Hate-Envy Syndrome At Full Throttle many decades ago ... to become an established American literary / intellectual / cinematic tradition and a seed (thorn) of "white" self-hate and doubt.

    Poem is undated. Shapiro "spent part of a year at the University of Virginia (1932-1933) where he felt ostracized by both the Anglo-Saxon majority and by students of German-Jewish background who, Shapiro claims, regarded themselves as superior to Jews whose ancestors, like his own, had come from Russia."

  55. @anon
    @eah

    U Va is a 'public ivy' -- not a football school. It is also highly selective -- with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party -- somehow -- I can't believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists -- it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway. And given that no one seems to be complaining at these places, it makes me wonder. This excludes, of course, sexual assault by black scholarship athletes. I defer to Tom Wolfe

    Replies: @ben tillman

    U Va is a ‘public ivy’ — not a football school. It is also highly selective — with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party — somehow — I can’t believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists — it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway.

    People who have experience, rather than speculative opinions, will tell you you’re wrong. When I was at Brown, there were one or two frats at Brown where there was a “rape culture”. And a law school classmate, a little sister of what she considered the top fraternity at Duke, reported on a train of a passed-out girl by a dozen guys in that house. That’s not to say it’s not the same or worse at lower-ranked schools, but your hypothesis about “top” schools conflicts with the facts.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @ben tillman

    When I was at Brown, there were one or two frats at Brown where there was a “rape culture”.

    Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that. Mere assertion should simply be unacceptable to anyone at this point. What exactly was alleged to have happened at the "one" fraternity (or was it "two"?) at Brown? And while you are at it, define "rape culture."

    That’s not to say it’s not the same or worse at lower-ranked schools, but your hypothesis about “top” schools conflicts with the facts.

    These aren't "facts".

  56. Sailer was key to Bradley’s note being noted as prior to his Sailer Bradley’s post was obscure and not commented upon. Sailer made all the main substantive points relevant to the case that turned out to be true, such as the obvious point that no one would have intercourse on the floor in the midst of broken glass, at least not before turning on the light to see if there were any large shards around. From there, all sorts of other absurdities arose (eg, getting hit by a bottle at tens of feet without a mark on her face).

    The key pillar to this verdict is Steve Sailer, though we know he shall never be acknowledged for anything.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @eric


    The key pillar to this verdict is Steve Sailer, though we know he shall never be acknowledged for anything.
     
    Never is a long time, although it could be as soon as next week.
  57. @Half Canadian
    Well good. They had acted recklessly, and should have realized the damage that they would cause on the tertiary characters in the story.
    I honestly hope that Erdley never writes another investigative story again. Have her stick to fiction or training manuals.

    Replies: @Chicago Girl, @Olorin

    Please keep her away from writing training manuals. She might put a company’s processes or workers’ safety at risk by inventing what she thinks would help convey a deeper message.

  58. @ben tillman
    @anon


    U Va is a ‘public ivy’ — not a football school. It is also highly selective — with 89% of the students in the top 10% of their class.

    I think a place like Arizona State is more likely to have frat boy culture, assuming it exists. I picked it more or less at random, but it accepts 83% of applicants.

    At places where they actually have kids that come to party — somehow — I can’t believe you are going to find entire administrative units devoted to date rape.

    In other words, if it exists — it would exist at a place more like this. In my opinion, anyway.
     
    People who have experience, rather than speculative opinions, will tell you you're wrong. When I was at Brown, there were one or two frats at Brown where there was a "rape culture". And a law school classmate, a little sister of what she considered the top fraternity at Duke, reported on a train of a passed-out girl by a dozen guys in that house. That's not to say it's not the same or worse at lower-ranked schools, but your hypothesis about "top" schools conflicts with the facts.

    Replies: @Opinionator

    When I was at Brown, there were one or two frats at Brown where there was a “rape culture”.

    Sorry, you’re going to have to do better than that. Mere assertion should simply be unacceptable to anyone at this point. What exactly was alleged to have happened at the “one” fraternity (or was it “two”?) at Brown? And while you are at it, define “rape culture.”

    That’s not to say it’s not the same or worse at lower-ranked schools, but your hypothesis about “top” schools conflicts with the facts.

    These aren’t “facts”.

  59. @Steve Sailer
    Penn was typically the most Jewish of the Ivy League colleges, while UVA was associated with Thomas Jefferson. Here's 1950s poet Karl Shapiro's poem "University" about his one semester at UVA:

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/detail/22722

    University Related Poem Content Details
    BY KARL SHAPIRO
    To hurt the Negro and avoid the Jew
    Is the curriculum. In mid-September
    The entering boys, identified by hats,
    Wander in a maze of mannered brick
    Where boxwood and magnolia brood
    And columns with imperious stance
    Like rows of ante-bellum girls
    Eye them, outlanders.

    In whited cells, on lawns equipped for peace,
    Under the arch, and lofty banister,
    Equals shake hands, unequals blankly pass;
    The exemplary weather whispers, “Quiet, quiet”
    And visitors on tiptoe leave
    For the raw North, the unfinished West,
    As the young, detecting an advantage,
    Practice a face.

    Where, on their separate hill, the colleges,
    Like manor houses of an older law,
    Gaze down embankments on a land in fee,
    The Deans, dry spinsters over family plate,
    Ring out the English name like coin,
    Humor the snob and lure the lout.
    Within the precincts of this world
    Poise is a club.

    But on the neighboring range, misty and high,
    The past is absolute: some luckless race
    Dull with inbreeding and conformity
    Wears out its heart, and comes barefoot and bad
    For charity or jail. The scholar
    Sanctions their obsolete disease;
    The gentleman revolts with shame
    At his ancestor.

    And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @drahthaar

    Interesting. Thanks

  60. @Percy Gryce
    @Louis Renault

    I sent No. 1 Daughter Gryce there this fall. In fact, we're visiting her this weekend.

    Replies: @Opinionator

    If you relayed her perspective on the rape culture there, a number of us might be interested.

  61. @Karl
    @iffen

    > In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award


    In the pretend-white-nationalist world, people write comments on a blog bitching about the absence of a paper journalism award to a good journalist.

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @iffen

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    How common is this? And how do you know whether the cash actually reaches the intended recipient?

  62. @Jack D
    @Daniel H

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn't get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Almost Missouri, @Olorin

    Besides what ben tillman wrote, I also think that UVa has a certain glamour that Penn lacks: Thomas Jefferson, the Honor Code, pretty campus. This may be a larger factor with females than with more league-table minded males. Perhaps there is some pop culture thing that references UVa. I notice its alums have mystical attachment to it that Penn’s lack.

  63. @Chrisnonymous
    Wow. I was really hoping to wake up Saturday morning to discover 100s of new comments on iSteve because of a Friday revelation damaging Hillary, and this is it...

    Replies: @antipater_1, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    because of a Friday revelation damaging Hillary, and this is it…

    Yes, because a duplicitous, Saul Alinsky, Left-wing outlet receiving justice has nothing to do with a a duplicitous, Saul Alinsky, Left-wing candidate running for president.

    Right, got it now.

    BTW, whose side are you on?

  64. @Karl
    @iffen

    > In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award


    In the pretend-white-nationalist world, people write comments on a blog bitching about the absence of a paper journalism award to a good journalist.

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @iffen

    In the pretend…

    world of fever swamps there are occasional posters offering posts where their recorded body temperatures are > 105 degrees Fahrenheit. That is, hallucinations unhinged, and unrelated to, reality.

    BTW, you can keep your $20.

  65. @Anonymous
    Charles Johnson is giving himself quite a huge pat on the back over this. Did he do anything to deserve it? I know Steve was all over this but I don't remember much from Chuck. Was he the one who discovered "Haven Monahan"?

    Replies: @L Woods, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Charles Johnson is Haven Monahan. He just doesn’t know it.

  66. @Triumph104
    If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer. Baylor had the 2003 basketball teammate murder, RG3 was extorted by a basketball player, and in 2014 a former football player was sentenced to 20 years for rape. All of that should have been a clue that there was more than bible studying and choir practice going on.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @David In TN

    “If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer.”

    Sabrina Erdely has no interest in a rape story with the kind of suspects in the Baylor case.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @David In TN

    I agree that Erdely has no interest in black athletes, but the rape accusations at Baylor include many non-athletes. She wouldn't have know that at the beginning of her investigation but it would have quickly become apparent. A white fraternity president was indicted for rape earlier this year before the football scandal exploded.

    It is unusual that the black rapes at Baylor are getting more attention than the white rapes, but this is Texas and nothing is more important than the viability of the football team.

  67. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @BenKenobi

    Sure, provided that the Sailer Institute for Excellence charter and roster is/stays “explicitly right-wing.”

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Jenner Ickham Errican:

    It requires work to stay “explicitly right-wing”! John O’Sullivan pointed out many years ago that unless explicit efforts be made, institutions will become liberal/leftist. An egregious example of this is the MacArthur Foundation which started out with William Simon and other “conservatives” on its board of directors, but which was taken over by “the enemy” and now hands out big-time grants to an assortment of leftist crazies.

  68. @Half Canadian
    Well good. They had acted recklessly, and should have realized the damage that they would cause on the tertiary characters in the story.
    I honestly hope that Erdley never writes another investigative story again. Have her stick to fiction or training manuals.

    Replies: @Chicago Girl, @Olorin

    For what it’s worth she never wrote an “investigative story” in her tawdry career.

    https://riversong.wordpress.com/journalistic-fabulism-and-ideological-agendas/

    Just a bunch of lurid fictions with the unifying mythos of how evil founding stock American whites are.

    If you look at her other piles of dung–suburban white mommy heroin addicts, suburban white mommy whores, poor innocent church boys of tawny complexion luridly raped by Catholic priests–you will see how thoroughly she inhabits this mythic cosmos and uses “journalism” to inflict it on others whom she despises.

  69. @Louis Renault
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    You will know it is a real problem when they warn women students that they are entering a rape zone.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce, @Olorin, @Bill Jones

    And allow–and encourage–those women to carry firearms on campus, and train with them for credit.

    What we hear about again and again is girls who can’t hold their liquor, waking up the next day unsure what happened and ashamed, confused, angry, resentful, etc.

    What we don’t hear about, or hear only in massaged bits, is the actual rapes, and who is actually doing them. It’s not white frat boys at UVA.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Olorin

    Given the amount of drinking going on, I'm not sure that's a good idea. Proper fire arms training emphasizes safety and responsibility and an environment where drugs and alcohol are pervasive is contrary to that. Not to mention that many SJW types (e.g. Jackie) have questionable mental stability. The last thing I would want to do is encourage greater firearms ownership among that crowd. I think that on some level they sense it and therefore are afraid of firearms - I wouldn't do anything to change their minds.

  70. @Drahthaar
    @anon

    Yes, in hindsight, T. Rees Shapiro has received too much credit for his key reportage, Sailer not enough. Undoubtedly Shapiro was keying into Sailer to make his points early in the game. Still, the Washington Post deserves credit for its enterprise. The invented rape went unquestioned by most media, stoked by UVA president and bacchante feminists, all to advance, protect, enforce a false narrative. In a perfect world the Phi Psis will now bleed RS dry and UVA will fire the grotesque, moronic Teresa Sullivan, who was in cahoots with Erdely.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    UVA will fire the grotesque, moronic Teresa Sullivan

    They already did, but she came back undead.

    Who was the gal there with the White House connection? She was likely the main instigator.

  71. @eric
    Sailer was key to Bradley's note being noted as prior to his Sailer Bradley's post was obscure and not commented upon. Sailer made all the main substantive points relevant to the case that turned out to be true, such as the obvious point that no one would have intercourse on the floor in the midst of broken glass, at least not before turning on the light to see if there were any large shards around. From there, all sorts of other absurdities arose (eg, getting hit by a bottle at tens of feet without a mark on her face).

    The key pillar to this verdict is Steve Sailer, though we know he shall never be acknowledged for anything.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The key pillar to this verdict is Steve Sailer, though we know he shall never be acknowledged for anything.

    Never is a long time, although it could be as soon as next week.

  72. @ben tillman
    @Jack D


    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn’t get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.
     
    I say this as someone with a million Penn degrees in the family: Penn isn't that much better. And, as a state school, UVA has double standards for admission, and it's possible that its standard for out-of-state students is higher than Penn's generally applicable standard. I can tell you that I, as an out-of-state applicant, was able to get into Harvard Law but not UVA law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Taco

    Be that as it may, surely among the Erdelys Penn is considered far superior to UVa, so Jack’s point stands.

  73. @Jack D
    @Daniel H

    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn't get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Almost Missouri, @Olorin

    Penn is harder to get into, accepting about 10% of undergrad applicants compared to UVA’s 30% or thereabouts. Penn’s tuition is about $48K (undergrad) for both in- and out-of-state students. UVA’s in-state is about $13,000, out of state about $45,000. Class sizes are much smaller. Penn’s 25th-75th percentile SAT range bottoms out within 100 points of the top of UVA’s.

    But they are very different schools both now and historically. Rubin was admitted to Penn as a pre-med student intending to study psychiatry; she didn’t hack it and quickly switched to a major in English, later writing for the student newspaper’s magazine and freelancing after graduation till she found her formula of maliciously deriding and blood-libeling white founding stock Americans and institutions in the guise of “investigative journalism.”

    I seriously doubt she would even have considered UVA for one reason: Sabrina Rubin is very Jewish, and UVA is not. Penn surely is, at least in many of its departments. Her antipathy to UVA is precisely, explicitly, simply genetic, cultural, ethnic, or call it what you will. This is a theme that runs through all her myths.

    Look here for yet another glimpse into her internal landscape:

    http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/IvyLeague.pdf

    http://variety.com/2013/film/news/lovelace-directors-on-the-girl-who-conned-the-ivy-league-1200406083/

    http://screenrant.com/girl-who-conned-ivy-league-movie-crosen-49104/

    See? It’s shiksas from Montana who are con artists!

  74. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Steve, you’ve done yeoman’s work on this subject. Your wry promotion of the boogeyman concept of “Haven Monahan” has been invaluable. The “Who? Whom?” motivations behind Rubin Erdely’s and Wenner’s witch hunt, the UPenn Stephen “Shattered” Glass prelude, Jackie Coakley’s adolescent world of make-believe colliding with misplaced “rape culture” hysteria, it’s an amazing story that ties together many things that you’ve observed for years, paralleled in other occurrences.

    The Pulitzer for Steve!

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Olorin

    At some point this sort of award will have to materialize, though I pity da foos who would be on the judges’ panels, sifting and winnowing.

    Still, with the upcoming expected attempts to crystallize DE, Alt-Right, New Right, Dissident Right, etc., opinion and reporting into new media nodes, notice for those who pioneered, developed, and excelled at them will have to follow. I hope our host is on the short list.

    Never mind the model of the Pulitzer Prize, which has been of dubious merit for nearly all my adult life. ***

    Cattle-prodding the whorish (or more accurately courtesanal) MSM into probity, and Zen-slapping them till they see juggalo Care Bears when they’ve gone astray, deserves its own award.

    Something like Guardian of the Stoa. Or perhaps more accurately Areopagite, and by that I mean the kind Isocrates and Herodotus wrote about, not the 6th century kind.

    *** Janet Cooke’s Pulitzer hoax, 1980:
    http://jclass.umd.edu/archive/newshoax/casestudies/journalists/JourJim4a.html

  75. Saying it was wrong to retract this hoaxy article of Ms. Erdely in order to win at least this libel case was the next wrong move by Rolling-Stone-publisher Jan Wenner. He does not know how to loose.
    Had he, Jenner would have stood firm and said: We’re sorry! We’ve, by means of our own stupidity, worked in a foolish way, to loose this case.

    R’n’R is not only about intensity and self aggrandation. It’s about the blues, about failures and suffering, too.

    Jenner just cut the soul of R’n’R into half. R’n’R is a modern myth, and myths are not simply about winners. They’re as well about poeple who repent.

    – “When they said, repent – I wonder what they meant” (Leonard Cohen -).

    Hers is a bit more – unfortunately, it fits in the whole RS-Erdely-mess quite well:

    Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
    Won’t be nothing
    Nothing you can measure anymore
    The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
    has crossed the threshold
    and it has overturned
    the order of the soul
    When they said REPENT REPENT
    I wonder what they meant
    When they said REPENT REPENT
    I wonder what they meant
    When they said REPENT REPENT
    I wonder what they meant
    (L. Cohen, The Future)

    Basically, myths take in loss , show-business hates losses. J. Wenner turned out to be just that: A not even decent show-business guy. No journalist, no writer. No “Boss” like the one Bruce Springsteen incorporartes, for example, at all.

  76. @Bill Jones
    @John Wesley

    The "libertarians" of Reason would be much more accurately classed as "Libertines"

    Replies: @snorlax, @Lyov Myshkin

    All Matt Welch and Nick Gillespie seem to be good for these days is being invited on Bill Maher’s show to laugh like good little Sambo’s at whatever the left decides is worthy of scorn.

  77. @Steve Sailer
    Penn was typically the most Jewish of the Ivy League colleges, while UVA was associated with Thomas Jefferson. Here's 1950s poet Karl Shapiro's poem "University" about his one semester at UVA:

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/detail/22722

    University Related Poem Content Details
    BY KARL SHAPIRO
    To hurt the Negro and avoid the Jew
    Is the curriculum. In mid-September
    The entering boys, identified by hats,
    Wander in a maze of mannered brick
    Where boxwood and magnolia brood
    And columns with imperious stance
    Like rows of ante-bellum girls
    Eye them, outlanders.

    In whited cells, on lawns equipped for peace,
    Under the arch, and lofty banister,
    Equals shake hands, unequals blankly pass;
    The exemplary weather whispers, “Quiet, quiet”
    And visitors on tiptoe leave
    For the raw North, the unfinished West,
    As the young, detecting an advantage,
    Practice a face.

    Where, on their separate hill, the colleges,
    Like manor houses of an older law,
    Gaze down embankments on a land in fee,
    The Deans, dry spinsters over family plate,
    Ring out the English name like coin,
    Humor the snob and lure the lout.
    Within the precincts of this world
    Poise is a club.

    But on the neighboring range, misty and high,
    The past is absolute: some luckless race
    Dull with inbreeding and conformity
    Wears out its heart, and comes barefoot and bad
    For charity or jail. The scholar
    Sanctions their obsolete disease;
    The gentleman revolts with shame
    At his ancestor.

    And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @drahthaar

    High Minded Jewish Goy-Prep-Fraternity Hate-Envy Syndrome At Full Throttle many decades ago … to become an established American literary / intellectual / cinematic tradition and a seed (thorn) of “white” self-hate and doubt.

    Poem is undated. Shapiro “spent part of a year at the University of Virginia (1932-1933) where he felt ostracized by both the Anglo-Saxon majority and by students of German-Jewish background who, Shapiro claims, regarded themselves as superior to Jews whose ancestors, like his own, had come from Russia.”

  78. @Karl
    @iffen

    > In a just world, Richard Bradley and Steve Sailer would be in line for some sort of quality journalism recognition award


    In the pretend-white-nationalist world, people write comments on a blog bitching about the absence of a paper journalism award to a good journalist.

    In the Hebrew-ethnic world, we give journalism awards by sending the guy a unmarked envelope with a peice of paper-currency that says $20.

    Replies: @Opinionator, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @iffen

    In the real world, sending $20 to Steve to help buy bunny food will not challenge the hold that the MSM have as interpreter and implementer of reality and those representatives of the “Hebrew-ethnic world” embedded in that MSM don’t need an extra $20. They do quite well financially, thank you very much.

  79. @John Wesley
    It's very amusing that Steve Sailer and (to a lesser extent) Richard Bradley are usually left out when the entire UVA/Rolling Stone hoax is written about by most journalists. I don't think T Rees Shapiro has ever mentioned Sailer's name in one of his WaPo articles and I think he's mentioned Bradley once. Of course the amusing part is that even people who agree with your arguments and journalism regarding one subject will discount you if they hate your other politics or philosophy enough. I disagree with the premises behind gay rights and Islamophobia-blaming, but that doesn't mean I dismiss someone who espouses them, like Glenn Greenwald, when tackling an issue when I am in agreement. "Libertarian" spinster Cathy Young is a good example of this erasure (SJW buzzword alert!), as are many other Reasonites. I never understood this kind of mentality.

    The cognitive dissonance in this type of person is hilarious.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Opinionator, @2Mintzin1

    My guess is that Shapiro, like many MSM journalists, is well aware that a favorable mention of Sailer or Bradley in the Post would be good exposure, and thus worth notoriety, and money, to the mentionee. Neither blogger is a SJW, however, and thus does not deserve this benefit.

    That’s why he won’t do it.

  80. @Jim Christian
    And Coakley goes free after all this. No false reports, no slander trial, she just walks away? She keeps her degree, from a school with an "Honor" council that once forced Teddy Kennedy off the campus for cheating an exam. WTF?

    Replies: @Karl, @Hibernian, @NOTA

    Teddy Kennedy was booted out of Harvard (undergrad) for cheating. He may have gone to U Va. for law school. (Bobby did for sure.) I think one of them, probably Teddy, was charged with speeding and/or DUI in Charlottesville.)

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Hibernian

    Teddy also graduated from U Va. law school. Yes, Teddy was the one charged with speeding.

  81. @Olorin
    @Louis Renault

    And allow--and encourage--those women to carry firearms on campus, and train with them for credit.

    What we hear about again and again is girls who can't hold their liquor, waking up the next day unsure what happened and ashamed, confused, angry, resentful, etc.

    What we don't hear about, or hear only in massaged bits, is the actual rapes, and who is actually doing them. It's not white frat boys at UVA.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Given the amount of drinking going on, I’m not sure that’s a good idea. Proper fire arms training emphasizes safety and responsibility and an environment where drugs and alcohol are pervasive is contrary to that. Not to mention that many SJW types (e.g. Jackie) have questionable mental stability. The last thing I would want to do is encourage greater firearms ownership among that crowd. I think that on some level they sense it and therefore are afraid of firearms – I wouldn’t do anything to change their minds.

  82. @eah

    The Narrative never suffers a loss, just rain-outs.

  83. And here is PLEASUREMAN’s post from Nov. 20, 2014, the real start of the fightback: http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/8194-rapes-that-didnt-happen-dot-txt/

  84. @Hibernian
    @Jim Christian

    Teddy Kennedy was booted out of Harvard (undergrad) for cheating. He may have gone to U Va. for law school. (Bobby did for sure.) I think one of them, probably Teddy, was charged with speeding and/or DUI in Charlottesville.)

    Replies: @David In TN

    Teddy also graduated from U Va. law school. Yes, Teddy was the one charged with speeding.

  85. @Jim Christian
    And Coakley goes free after all this. No false reports, no slander trial, she just walks away? She keeps her degree, from a school with an "Honor" council that once forced Teddy Kennedy off the campus for cheating an exam. WTF?

    Replies: @Karl, @Hibernian, @NOTA

    Most media outlets are losing money hand over fist, as all their ad revenue moves over to Google and Facebook. They don’t generally have deep pockets for fighting this kind of lawsuit. So imagine how easy it is going to be for Erdely to get future articles published. (“Say, isn’t she the one that damned near put Rolling Stone out of business?”)

  86. @Jack D
    An important lesson which RS and Erdely did not learn - the first rule of holes is to stop digging. Among the factors which led to the finding of malice (and future increases in damages):

    1. In an email to a Post reporter (Shapiro?) when questions about her reporting were already being raised, Erdely wrote that Jackie came forward with her account “only to be met with indifference.”

    2. On Dec. 5, 2014 (when the story was already falling apart) RS posted an editor’s note at the top of the story(which however remained up on their site) acknowledging that there had been doubts cast on Jackie’s account, but an official retraction (and take down from the web) did not come until April. The jury found that by keeping the article up online in its entirety — while simultaneously acknowledging its flawed reporting — Rolling Stone editors knew that the article was false but published it again anyway, a key indicator of actual malice.

    When you're accused of being a liar, it's a natural tendency to deny, deny and throw more dirt onto the other side, but in the legal context, at some point it's better to say, "We've made a horrible mistake and are so sorry" and hope that they will go easy on you. I think RS was so blinded by its holy mission against campus rape (and Erdely's hatred of blonds) that they couldn't bear to pull the plug on their baby even after it had flatlined.

    Replies: @NOTA

    My guess is that Erdeley and her employers had drunk the koolaid, and genuinely believed the story. The RS editors probably keyed off her certainty and decided to stick with the story.

  87. @antipater_1
    @Chrisnonymous

    That's because Steve's mind has become locked into an 8 cycle infinite loop with Gulenistic-Erdelyistic-golfcourseistic tendencies. Poor bastard. Sad. But I suppose it happens to every man eventually.

    Replies: @NOTA

    Eventually, Steve will figure out how the Gullenists are enticing illegal immigrants to convince transsexuals to push talented-tenth blacks into golf-course design, under the guidance of Haven Monnahan, and his work here will be done.

  88. @David In TN
    @Triumph104

    "If Sabrina Erdely had reported on Baylor in 2014 she would have won a Pulitzer."

    Sabrina Erdely has no interest in a rape story with the kind of suspects in the Baylor case.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    I agree that Erdely has no interest in black athletes, but the rape accusations at Baylor include many non-athletes. She wouldn’t have know that at the beginning of her investigation but it would have quickly become apparent. A white fraternity president was indicted for rape earlier this year before the football scandal exploded.

    It is unusual that the black rapes at Baylor are getting more attention than the white rapes, but this is Texas and nothing is more important than the viability of the football team.

  89. @Louis Renault
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    You will know it is a real problem when they warn women students that they are entering a rape zone.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce, @Olorin, @Bill Jones

    And will the White House be declared a “Rape Zone” if Hillary wins?

  90. @ben tillman
    @Jack D


    Nah, she went to Penn which is a much higher ranked school. Even if she applied to U Va and didn’t get in (unlikely) she would have shrugged it off as a mistake or luck of the draw because she got into a better school.
     
    I say this as someone with a million Penn degrees in the family: Penn isn't that much better. And, as a state school, UVA has double standards for admission, and it's possible that its standard for out-of-state students is higher than Penn's generally applicable standard. I can tell you that I, as an out-of-state applicant, was able to get into Harvard Law but not UVA law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Taco

    You were yield protected.

  91. @Steve Sailer
    @Opinionator

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/jackies-story-going-going-gone-girl/

    Replies: @Opinionator

    Steve,

    Thanks for the link. Okay, Shapiro did the legwork in actually interviewing the friends (should have been basic journalism 101) and relating to readers their commentary, commentary from which one could infer catfishing.

    But Shapiro did not suggest catfishing explicitly or implicitly anywhere in the article. And his article contains omissions and a stylistic form that pushes the other way. For example:

    1. Shapiro apparently did not ask the friends why they were texting Drew. As you say, that’s an odd thing to do. One theory: they thought her story was bs all along and were playing along in a way that sort of mocked Jackie among themselves behind her back.

    2. Shapiro refers to “Drew” as “the student”, rather than the “sender” (of the texts) or the asserted/alleged/claimed/apparent student.

    3. Shapiro refers to Drew and the sender of the texts as a “he”.

    4. Shapiro apparently did not ask the friends who they thought Drew was and whether they thought at the time of the alleged incident or at the time of the interview that “he” was in fact Jackie.

    If I recall, you were somewhat mystified in weeks or months after early December that the catfishing theme wasn’t picked up by media covering the story. Shapiro’s blindness or reticence in this watershed article is partly to blame for that.

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