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Roland Fryer: Robots Can Replace Affirmative Action
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From the Washington Post opinion section:

Affirmative action in college admissions doesn’t work — but it could
By Roland G. Fryer Jr.
October 30, 2022 at 8:33 a.m. EDT

Roland G. Fryer Jr. is an economics professor at Harvard University, a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and founder of Equal Opportunity Ventures.

Fryer is Harvard College’s superstar economist who does a lot of interesting, often politically incorrect studies. He was Harvard College’s highest paid professor because he brings in huge grants from donors like Michael Bloomberg to try social science experiments that aren’t obviously stupid.

But then he got MeTooed for, as far as I could tell, being interested in the opposite sex without putting a ring on it.

… But affirmative action is very often not targeted at individuals who, because of disadvantage, are achieving below their potential. Seventy-one percent of Harvard’s Black and Hispanic students come from wealthy backgrounds. A tiny fraction attended underperforming public high schools.

A half century ago, at the dawn of affirmative action, Harvard let in some male urban achievers from the deepest reaches of the ghetto. Unfortunate Incidents ensued involving the physical safety of other students.

By the end of the 70s, prep schools had set up their affirmative action pipelines as well, so Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.

First- and second-generation African immigrants, despite constituting only about 10 percent of the U.S. Black population, make up about 41 percent of all Black students in the Ivy League, and Black immigrants are wealthier and better educated than many native-born Black Americans.

There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

Nobody notices that because of the antiquarianism of contemporary American discourse. Who can possibly remember any history more recent than Emmett Till, such as that liberals have been largely in charge of all matter racial for the last 60 years or so, and yet after all this spending and promoting everything black, African-Americans are falling further behind Third World black bourgeois students?

How can affirmative action be made consistent with true meritocracy? How can the minority applicants who have lower scores but high potential be distinguished from those who just have low scores?

The answer is simple: Use data more rigorously. The problem is not affirmative action per se. The problem is lazy implementation of it as a set of blunt racial preferences.

If racial diversity is the only goal, then explicit racial preferences — which are already illegal — are the most efficient way to achieve it. Mathematically, the optimal policy amounts to treating each race as a distinct applicant pool, and then admitting the top students from each one.

Under this approach, students of all races will disproportionately come from wealthier backgrounds, because grades, test scores and other factors used in admissions are positively correlated with parental income.

What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?

Uh, you know, Harvard is one of the world’s great brand names. It had a $53 billion dollar endowment. I suspect Harvard already uses sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top donors to Harvard. The college doesn’t want to reveal what it’s found, but you can reverse engineer it: why does Harvard love obscure sport jocks so much? Why does Harvard keep legacies and fraternities? Why does Harvard have a higher percentage of male students than almost any other general purpose college? Basically, the big donors are Haven Monahan.

Evidence is accumulating that machine-learning algorithms can make better decisions than humans, especially when bias is present. A Cornell study of data on judges’ bail decisions found that computer predictions could reduce crime as much as 25 percent with no change in jailing rates. A Stanford University study found that a machine-learning algorithm performed as well or better than trained radiologists on screening X-rays.

And robots can’t be racist, the whole concept is absurd.

Oh, wait, there’s a growing terror that artificial intelligence won’t pick the Right People.

Why not use this approach in college admissions?

Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

A machine-learning model would be fed historical admissions data, including candidates’ family background and academic achievement, and noncognitive skills such as grit and resilience, along with outcomes of past admission decisions. It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance — as defined by each institution, such as college grade-point average or income 10 years after graduation. The model could figure out which characteristics best predict performance for various subgroups — for example, how salient SAT scores are for public-school Black students raised in the South by single mothers vs. private-school White kids from the Northeast. If we use only unadjusted test scores, all that context is lost.

A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income? Enquring minds want to know.

This approach would sidestep other thorny issues in college admissions as well. If, as some have argued, the SAT test is racially biased, the algorithm could place less weight on scores for Black students. If students who demonstrate resilience as children are more likely to be hidden gems, the data will show that, too.

Here’s what they’d find: the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test; the boys who wrote their application essay about becoming an Eagle Scout; the ones who don’t realize that using “equality” instead of “equity” in your essay is now a Red Flag.

 
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  1. “Seventy-one percent of Harvard’s Black and Hispanic students come from wealthy backgrounds.”

    Next scene

    • LOL: Meretricious
  2. What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?

    You know, something like a standardized test of some kind. But where would we ever find such a thing?

    Give the guy credit, though. He’s thinking hard about how top colleges can better game the racial preference racket.

    • Agree: Polistra, ArthurinCali
    • LOL: Twinkie, Inverness
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @HammerJack

    For 60 years the smartest people at the smartest institutions have been trying to figure out how to get the same percentage of smart people from a population that is one standard deviation below average in IQ. Fryer's brilliant idea: Let's just delegate the problem to a supercomputer since data and AI can solve anything.

    Other problems this AI could equally solve include: How to design a perpetual motion machine? How to turn lead into gold? How to make pi into a rational number?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  3. Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    Um, I don’t think Harvard’s algorithm would select for that. MIT and CalTech might. How about Harvard using a case study approach to teach its algorithm to reject retarded dickheads.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @JimB

    Harvard's a lot more engineer-y than it used to be. Imagine a terrified Harvard trying its hardest to be Stanford so as not to "fall behind" its upstart west-coast rival: that's what's been going on for about a decade now, and they've thrown tons of resources at it.

    Replies: @JimB

  4. Anon[333] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Anon

    Not remotely. We have a hundred articles on this very site which can clear this up for you. Keyword: admixture.

    , @Batman
    @Anon



    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

     

    Lol, no. Our native blacks are the descendants of the eighteenth century stone age spear chuckers who were unlucky enough or dumb enough to be enslaved by other stone age eighteenth century spear chuckers. The Nigerians coming to America today are the very smartest and best of a country of about 300 million people. Even though Nigeria today at the median is a functionally retarded nation, the 99.9999th percentile smartest and most resourceful Nigerians are pretty smart.

    Replies: @Anonymous Jew

    , @Arclight
    @Anon

    No, and this is a good point. The more recent immigrants are often from dominant/conqueror ancestry, and the American slaves were quite literally the conquered. But Steve does have a point in that the culture and mindset our society imprints on black descendants of slaves is not one that inculcates the behaviors that lead to high performance, and children of Africans probably avoid a lot of that (not sure about the next generation, though).

    At any rate, it is interesting to see leftist whites and blacks going to the mat for affirmative action to protect black enrollment rates at elite schools when in absolute numbers the beneficiaries who are descendants of slaves isn't really that large. More troublesome is that at mid and lower level institutions schools admit loads of black students that are levered up with student loans that they simply will never be able to repay because they drop out or don't obtain degrees with enough firepower to earn the money to pay them off.

    Higher ed is essentially like a mafia bust out, only applied to underqualified aspiring minority college students.

  5. Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    • Replies: @George Taylor
    @Anonymous


    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Anonymous

    "why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?"

    Ummm, actually, white people created ALL of them, in case you haven't been noticing.

    And then, of course, (as it always does), Jews happened. And there begins the lesson in Why We Can't Have Nice Things.

    But just for fun, here's a study in something robots can't replace......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8plLqZPSQ2Y&list=RDMM&index=12

    I once won a $100 bet for walking across the entire packed dance floor of a Mary's Danish concert with a glass of beer balanced on my head, and didn't spill a drop. Tried it again at a 52s concert and didn't win, sadly. But the Mary's Danish concert t-shirt is cooler; the only cooler t-shirt I own is the classic Los Bros Love and Rockets Hopey Glass t-shirt, signed by both Xaime AND Beto!

    , @anon
    @Anonymous

    STEM programs in state flagship colleges ARE elite schools. And red state boys may well be better off by not being exposed to postmodernism and political correctness.

    Look at engineering rankings. For example.

    Or look at money received for (largely medical) research by University of Washington, for example.

    , @Anon
    @Anonymous



    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.
     
    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    Would it even be legal to have a White university?

    Even if it were legal, jews would ensure that it was boycotted and that its students were ostracized from American society. Look what jews did to Kanye for saying that White lives matter. They have destroyed his life.
    , @Barnard
    @Anonymous

    How would they do this, just declare, "we have created an elite university!" For decades the idea of an elite university is just what people think of it. It has very little to do with what is being taught.

    , @Wilkey
    @Anonymous


    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    Starting such a university wouldn’t just be legally impermissible. It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously: places like Yeshiva University or Brigham Young University. They don’t technically exclude those who aren’t members of their respective faiths, but they’re religiously rigorous enough that most other people stay away.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Anonymous

    , @Lhhfdsdrfgf
    @Anonymous

    It probably wouldn’t be worth it, and it would eventually become Woke. Those boys are better off getting community college/tech school/real world training to make money and build families and power.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Marquis
    @Anonymous

    There are several. I’m in the Midwest, but can name a few. Chicago puts out better students than Harvard, imo. At least in my industry. Hillsdale, Wabash, etc… in liberal arts. Hanover is easily one of the best engineering schools in the country.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

  6. There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

    To be fair, there are a LOT of Africans in Africa you can filter from to fill out the limited number of slots in the top selective colleges. If schools were actually indifferent to the nationality of their students, you wouldn’t expect African-Americans to outnumber actual Africans. But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures. But this likely applies to American vs selective immigrant cultures more broadly.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @TGGP

    Why should African or any foreigners be admitted to any American college? Especially the state universities especially established by the taxpayers of the state for the benefit of the citizens and taxpayers???

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ. Not only do they hate White women and dance for joy when White women are murdered by non Whites.

    But they accept that their own White children be denied admission to colleges so that Africans and other non White immigrants can get acceptance, degrees and high paid professional jobs White Americans are denied. Because of vicious racial discrimination against White Americans

    Comments like the above are one of the reasons it’s very obvious the men of UNZ don’t have children.

    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    , @anon
    @TGGP

    Agree. Steve is ignoring the HBD, here.

    ADOS have different ancestors than the Igbos do. They're as distinct as the Brahmins are from the subcontinental-descended Gypsies.

    , @Anon
    @TGGP


    But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures.
     
    It is so interesting that readers of this blog attribute difference in performance between descendants of American slaves (DOAS) and immigrants from Africa to “culture” rather than to biology. Were slaves a representative sample of the African population? Could the grouping have had disproportionate elements of criminality and mental illness? How were they selected by their African brethren?
    , @Hypnotoad666
    @TGGP

    The gap between immigrant and domestic blacks in IQ is most likely because immigrant blacks (like Indians, but unlike Mexicans), are highly self-selected for educational attainment and IQ as compared to the average for their native countries.

    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population's average, but to approximately the average between their parent's IQs and the population average. Thus, you'd expect a higher IQ to persist at least into the second generation (before fading out through admixture with the local blacks).

    So the difference is most easily explained with plain old IQ, rather than squishy culture explanations. Sometimes I think Steve goes out of his way to bark up the "culture" tree in trying to explain black scores.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Thomm

  7. “How can the minority applicants who have lower scores but high potential be distinguished from those who just have low scores?”

    That’s easy. Look for an African surname (or light skin in the case of first-generation Latin Americans). You don’t need AI to do that.

  8. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    • Thanks: Polistra, Inverness
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @George Taylor

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    If so, why couldn't they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren't quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    The kind of university I'm talking about is one founded on strong bedrock of meritocracy without considerations of legacy and connections that always defined the Ivies.
    If conservatives are all about meritocracy and there are so many whites who are ignored by elite institutions, why don't conservatives create their own elite institution.

    Same with Hollywood. Why complain about Liberal Hollywood not making movies conservatives like. There are so many conservatives, and there are 50 states, but conservatives cannot create a single viable movie industry of their own?

    Sad.

    Replies: @Bumpkin, @Legba, @George Taylor

  9. Mathematically, the optimal policy amounts to treating each race as a distinct applicant pool, and then admitting the top students from each one.

    So, use computer programs instead of people to screw the White men… got it… SSDD. (Decade)

  10. A blind admissions selection process would be best, but those white boys who are 67% underrepresented would get in a whole lot, and rich Jews like Jared Kushner wouldn’t have a chance..so that’s a no…Asians would get full representation…but we know that Asians cheat a lot on admissions tests…

  11. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    “why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?”

    Ummm, actually, white people created ALL of them, in case you haven’t been noticing.

    And then, of course, (as it always does), Jews happened. And there begins the lesson in Why We Can’t Have Nice Things.

    But just for fun, here’s a study in something robots can’t replace……

    I once won a $100 bet for walking across the entire packed dance floor of a Mary’s Danish concert with a glass of beer balanced on my head, and didn’t spill a drop. Tried it again at a 52s concert and didn’t win, sadly. But the Mary’s Danish concert t-shirt is cooler; the only cooler t-shirt I own is the classic Los Bros Love and Rockets Hopey Glass t-shirt, signed by both Xaime AND Beto!

  12. @Anon

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Batman, @Arclight

    Not remotely. We have a hundred articles on this very site which can clear this up for you. Keyword: admixture.

  13. But then he got MeTooed for, as far as I could tell, being interested in the opposite sex without putting a ring on it.

    And doing research with unpopular results. Note the timing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_G._Fryer_Jr.#Academic_career

    In 2016, Fryer published a working paper concluding that although minorities (African Americans and Hispanics) are more likely to experience police use of force than whites, they were not more likely to be shot by police than whites in a given interaction with police.[17] The paper generated considerable controversy and criticism.[18][19][20][21]

    In March 2018, Harvard barred Fryer from his research lab, the Education Innovation Laboratory (EdLabs), upon launching an investigation into Title IX complaints against him alleging sexual harassment.[28]

    Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.
    https://www.oxfordeagle.com/2018/05/09/show-me-the-man-and-ill-show-you-the-crime/

    • Thanks: Inverness
  14. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:
    @George Taylor
    @Anonymous


    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    If so, why couldn’t they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren’t quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    The kind of university I’m talking about is one founded on strong bedrock of meritocracy without considerations of legacy and connections that always defined the Ivies.
    If conservatives are all about meritocracy and there are so many whites who are ignored by elite institutions, why don’t conservatives create their own elite institution.

    Same with Hollywood. Why complain about Liberal Hollywood not making movies conservatives like. There are so many conservatives, and there are 50 states, but conservatives cannot create a single viable movie industry of their own?

    Sad.

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    @Anonymous

    You make a good point. I always find it strange when the Right obsesses over outdated institutions like universities and broadcast media or outdated tech like twitter, when a whole new world is being born online.

    , @Legba
    @Anonymous

    How many viable film industries do we have now?

    , @George Taylor
    @Anonymous


    If so, why couldn’t they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren’t quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.
     
    "Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy"

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  15. Black immigrants are wealthier and better educated than many native-born Black Americans.

  16. OT: The always excellent Christopher Caldwell on why are we in Ukraine:

    https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/why-are-we-in-ukraine/

    • Thanks: Cagey Beast
  17. Kanye needs a robot psychiatrist to eliminate the chance of bias:

  18. Here’s what they’d find: the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test; the boys who wrote their application essay about becoming an Eagle Scout; the ones who don’t realize that using “equality” instead of “equity” in your essay is now a Red Flag.

    Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan, ic1000
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Sorry Steve, sorry Buzz. It’s 2022, not 1972. Everyone in America knows how to lie and cheat to get into college.

    The very very worst thing a college applicant can do nowadays is mention being an Eagle Scout, 4H member, even if he or she won first prize at the state fair high school ROTC or police cadet anything like that. The colleges also use zip codes. White and wealthy no acceptance White and middle income, no acceptance White and poor no acceptance.

    , @Brit
    @Buzz Mohawk

    As a non American I can't help thinking that the anti Red State bias is storing up a potential problem for liberals. Basically a lot of the very bright and driven young men (and presumably a good chunk of women as well) are not being Ivy Leagued. They go to a decent university, probably near enough home to keep up their social capital and are far more likely to stay within their communities and over time become local leaders rather than being creamed off and becoming part of the coastal elite.

    Of course some of those who go to an Ivy League school will stay Conservative and so there is some ability to navigate the halls of national power that is lost, and perhaps even some wealth lost. And some of those who stay at home will still become quite liberal because they are still going through the credentialed academic mill - although even then more likely to be a more problematic populist liberal.

    But in general the Red States are being allowed to keep a leadership cadre, and that's before any idea of discrimination starts to bristle.

  19. @Anon

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Batman, @Arclight

    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

    Lol, no. Our native blacks are the descendants of the eighteenth century stone age spear chuckers who were unlucky enough or dumb enough to be enslaved by other stone age eighteenth century spear chuckers. The Nigerians coming to America today are the very smartest and best of a country of about 300 million people. Even though Nigeria today at the median is a functionally retarded nation, the 99.9999th percentile smartest and most resourceful Nigerians are pretty smart.

    • Agree: James Speaks
    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
    @Batman

    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.

    Also, if I recall, the children of Britain’s high achieving Black immigrants outscore the bottom of the White bell curve but not the top (unlike the Hindu and Orientals in Britain that do well top to bottom). Also, there’s no hiding the disproportionate amount of Blacks in Britain’s crime. But perhaps they’re more likely to be the children of Caribbean Blacks? (I’m an American, so if anyone has on the ground insights from the UK please feel free to correct me).

    Replies: @res, @International Jew

  20. @TGGP

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    To be fair, there are a LOT of Africans in Africa you can filter from to fill out the limited number of slots in the top selective colleges. If schools were actually indifferent to the nationality of their students, you wouldn't expect African-Americans to outnumber actual Africans. But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures. But this likely applies to American vs selective immigrant cultures more broadly.

    Replies: @Alden, @anon, @Anon, @Hypnotoad666

    Why should African or any foreigners be admitted to any American college? Especially the state universities especially established by the taxpayers of the state for the benefit of the citizens and taxpayers???

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ. Not only do they hate White women and dance for joy when White women are murdered by non Whites.

    But they accept that their own White children be denied admission to colleges so that Africans and other non White immigrants can get acceptance, degrees and high paid professional jobs White Americans are denied. Because of vicious racial discrimination against White Americans

    Comments like the above are one of the reasons it’s very obvious the men of UNZ don’t have children.

    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @Alden


    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family
     
    Who goes to the Ivies matters if you care about who rules over you. In that sense, it does matter to me if other whites are discriminated against. Otherwise, I don't know or care about those schools.

    I truly don't understand why whites are not literally up in arms over the fact that that they are being replaced and discriminated against in their own homeland. I just don't get it. And it's not only women who want to be viewed as nice. You simply can't help people who don't want to be helped.

    Most whites would look at you like you just dropped from outer space if you brought up the topic of racial rapes and violence against whites. It's bizarre.

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They've played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    Replies: @Alden, @Anon, @Alden

  21. > There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @megabar


    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.
     
    Recently I saw Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss how to improve the performance of blacks in this country. I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children and then have those children marry each other and rinse and repeat. In a number of generations later, you’d have a high performing black population. Of course, they might suffer from genetic bottleneck/founders effects and evince supremacism and a high degree of tribalism, but they’d do well.

    Simple. Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement - as in Aesop’s proverbial belling of the cat.

    Replies: @Inverness, @Achmed E. Newman, @Jon

  22. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    STEM programs in state flagship colleges ARE elite schools. And red state boys may well be better off by not being exposed to postmodernism and political correctness.

    Look at engineering rankings. For example.

    Or look at money received for (largely medical) research by University of Washington, for example.

  23. @TGGP

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    To be fair, there are a LOT of Africans in Africa you can filter from to fill out the limited number of slots in the top selective colleges. If schools were actually indifferent to the nationality of their students, you wouldn't expect African-Americans to outnumber actual Africans. But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures. But this likely applies to American vs selective immigrant cultures more broadly.

    Replies: @Alden, @anon, @Anon, @Hypnotoad666

    Agree. Steve is ignoring the HBD, here.

    ADOS have different ancestors than the Igbos do. They’re as distinct as the Brahmins are from the subcontinental-descended Gypsies.

  24. The WEF Goldman Sachs Indian ethnicity British citizenship Prime Minister of the UK, Sunak has a Stanford MBA. Wife has a Stanford degree too. That’s where they met. Wife’s family are multi billionaires. One of the wealthiest families in the world.

    Why should they get Stanford admissions denied Americans? Stanford isn’t a private institution. Because it accepts federal money it’s not a private institution any more. That’s the law, both statutory and judicial. Accept any federal money no institution is private any more.

  25. Anon[316] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Would it even be legal to have a White university?

    Even if it were legal, jews would ensure that it was boycotted and that its students were ostracized from American society. Look what jews did to Kanye for saying that White lives matter. They have destroyed his life.

  26. @HammerJack

    What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?
     
    You know, something like a standardized test of some kind. But where would we ever find such a thing?

    Give the guy credit, though. He's thinking hard about how top colleges can better game the racial preference racket.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    For 60 years the smartest people at the smartest institutions have been trying to figure out how to get the same percentage of smart people from a population that is one standard deviation below average in IQ. Fryer’s brilliant idea: Let’s just delegate the problem to a supercomputer since data and AI can solve anything.

    Other problems this AI could equally solve include: How to design a perpetual motion machine? How to turn lead into gold? How to make pi into a rational number?

    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666


    How to make pi into a rational number?
     
    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing - some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though...

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Adam Smith, @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar

  27. Anon[316] • Disclaimer says:
    @TGGP

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    To be fair, there are a LOT of Africans in Africa you can filter from to fill out the limited number of slots in the top selective colleges. If schools were actually indifferent to the nationality of their students, you wouldn't expect African-Americans to outnumber actual Africans. But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures. But this likely applies to American vs selective immigrant cultures more broadly.

    Replies: @Alden, @anon, @Anon, @Hypnotoad666

    But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures.

    It is so interesting that readers of this blog attribute difference in performance between descendants of American slaves (DOAS) and immigrants from Africa to “culture” rather than to biology. Were slaves a representative sample of the African population? Could the grouping have had disproportionate elements of criminality and mental illness? How were they selected by their African brethren?

  28. @Buzz Mohawk

    Here’s what they’d find: the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test; the boys who wrote their application essay about becoming an Eagle Scout; the ones who don’t realize that using “equality” instead of “equity” in your essay is now a Red Flag.
     
    Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

    Replies: @Alden, @Brit

    Sorry Steve, sorry Buzz. It’s 2022, not 1972. Everyone in America knows how to lie and cheat to get into college.

    The very very worst thing a college applicant can do nowadays is mention being an Eagle Scout, 4H member, even if he or she won first prize at the state fair high school ROTC or police cadet anything like that. The colleges also use zip codes. White and wealthy no acceptance White and middle income, no acceptance White and poor no acceptance.

  29. A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?

    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test

    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions – for both gentile white and East Asian males – who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie


    It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions – for both gentile white and East Asian males – who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.
     
    Is that not a good thing for the Midwest and the South? They don’t lose their sons to the coastal elites and to assimilation into the globalists.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @kb
    @Twinkie

    good take

    , @Twinkie
    @Twinkie

    Anybody have a more up-to-date or detailed source of data than this (with actual attributions/sources)?

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/07/0a/83070a5b560a31e61a4e77d7cac8b5e2.png

    Replies: @Alice in Wonderland, @res

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    ...the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.
     
    These students end up somewhere. Wouldn't the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?

    One really has to wonder how the Ivies and their peers will keep their faculties healthy as the student bodies degenerate. Unless all they care about is the compensation.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Alice in Wonderland
    @Twinkie

    I think the guileless (lol) white boys of Nebraska aren't turned down because they aren't applying to elite schools. Those guys want to go to places like Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, Ohio, etc. It's when AA keeps competent male students out of those schools that parents aka taxpayers get ticked off. Their kids could go to some private school, but those are extremely expensive. Residents want their kids to be able to get into their University of Texas or University of Michigan because they are good, but they are also way way cheaper than the private schools. This is why we have legislation that mandates the schools take the top x% of resident students. They also have automatic acceptance for resident students who meet certain minimum SAT/ACT score. requirements. White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

  30. @megabar
    > There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.

    Recently I saw Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss how to improve the performance of blacks in this country. I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children and then have those children marry each other and rinse and repeat. In a number of generations later, you’d have a high performing black population. Of course, they might suffer from genetic bottleneck/founders effects and evince supremacism and a high degree of tribalism, but they’d do well.

    Simple. Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement – as in Aesop’s proverbial belling of the cat.

    • Replies: @Inverness
    @Twinkie

    Mild eugenics would save this country and many others. I suppose that's one reason we won't be doing it.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Twinkie


    Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement ...
     
    Yeah, it's especially hard when you've been doing the opposite for more than half a century.

    I've worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don't have many kids - one as an average, from a limited number that I know. That's no different from the story of White people - the Welfare State has been re-distributing the money that could go for that "family formation" to dumber people who are doing lots of (usually single-parent) family formation stuff instead.

    First, you've got to stop digging! That means eliminating the Welfare State. Heard anything about that from anyone in power lately? Me neither.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @BosTex

    , @Jon
    @Twinkie


    I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children
     
    The elites are pushing a similar idea - improve the genetics of blacks by breeding them with whites.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  31. ‘…What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?…’

    The comic bit here is that, like it or not, the wealthy were the top performers of the past, and their children — for whatever matrix of reasons — are going to be the top performers of the future.

    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    @Colin Wright


    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.
     
    This assumes drive, luck, and their own family history had nothing to do with the wealthy getting that way. How many children of self-made men do we see who don't have the grit of their parents and thus backslide to the median? Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world? Of course, the latter are exceptional and defy all rules, but there are many like them who attain some wealth.

    If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

  32. @Twinkie
    @megabar


    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.
     
    Recently I saw Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss how to improve the performance of blacks in this country. I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children and then have those children marry each other and rinse and repeat. In a number of generations later, you’d have a high performing black population. Of course, they might suffer from genetic bottleneck/founders effects and evince supremacism and a high degree of tribalism, but they’d do well.

    Simple. Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement - as in Aesop’s proverbial belling of the cat.

    Replies: @Inverness, @Achmed E. Newman, @Jon

    Mild eugenics would save this country and many others. I suppose that’s one reason we won’t be doing it.

  33. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?
     
    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test
     
    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions - for both gentile white and East Asian males - who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @kb, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar, @Alice in Wonderland

    It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions – for both gentile white and East Asian males – who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Is that not a good thing for the Midwest and the South? They don’t lose their sons to the coastal elites and to assimilation into the globalists.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Is that not a good thing for the Midwest and the South? They don’t lose their sons to the coastal elites and to assimilation into the globalists.
     
    Yes, but they are being shut out of the leadership fraction of the society. It's not good for the ambitious sons of the soil (will increase their resentment and contribute to social disturbances in the future) and it's not good for the country, which is being deprived of their talents at the highest level.

    Perhaps we are going to see more and more of this in the future: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/iowa-teens-killed-spanish-teacher-over-bad-grade-says-prosecutor/ar-AA13D3tq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b9354477f1bd4d9bdde54ca85d362b69


    Two Iowa teenagers killed their high school Spanish teacher last year because of frustration over a bad grade, prosecutors said Tuesday in court documents that for the first time reveal a possible motive.
     
    https://cdn.s3-media.wbal.com/Media/2022/11/01/da081c2b-cf2a-4d3f-90bf-957c5a7ef44b/thumb-400.jpg

    They finally found the Great White Defendants (I mean the victim is not black, but a Spanish teacher is close enough!).

  34. Human interviewers would do a better job than any algorithm, when it comes to deciding which candidates are best suited to making a qualitative jump. An Officers Candidate School admissions board does a superb job of assessing who has it and who doesn’t. It is, or at least used to be, a very structured interview, to prevent it from sympathetically wandering-off into topics the candidate is more comfortable with. I think a similar rigorous, pesky, interview process for college admissions would ascertain, among other qualities, who has a chip on his shoulder.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @SafeNow

    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. The officer selection boards are only interested in race diversity and sex. 2022 2022, almost 2023. I’m old too. But I know what year it is.

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    , @Almost Missouri
    @SafeNow


    An Officers Candidate School admissions board does a superb job of assessing who has it and who doesn’t.
     
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/gctscores_watermark.jpg

    Alden vindicated.

    See also, https://www.unz.com/jthompson/afghan-intelligence/#comment-4847858
  35. @TGGP

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    To be fair, there are a LOT of Africans in Africa you can filter from to fill out the limited number of slots in the top selective colleges. If schools were actually indifferent to the nationality of their students, you wouldn't expect African-Americans to outnumber actual Africans. But my impression is that immigrant Africans (not including refugees like most Somalis here) are able to persistently have an advantage into the next generation without much regression to the mean, so they may indeed have more functional cultures. But this likely applies to American vs selective immigrant cultures more broadly.

    Replies: @Alden, @anon, @Anon, @Hypnotoad666

    The gap between immigrant and domestic blacks in IQ is most likely because immigrant blacks (like Indians, but unlike Mexicans), are highly self-selected for educational attainment and IQ as compared to the average for their native countries.

    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population’s average, but to approximately the average between their parent’s IQs and the population average. Thus, you’d expect a higher IQ to persist at least into the second generation (before fading out through admixture with the local blacks).

    So the difference is most easily explained with plain old IQ, rather than squishy culture explanations. Sometimes I think Steve goes out of his way to bark up the “culture” tree in trying to explain black scores.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population’s average, but to approximately the average between their parent’s IQs and the population average.
     
    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one's ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Bill Jones

    , @Thomm
    @Hypnotoad666

    I saw an educated UMC African family at Trader Joe's a few weeks ago.

    It was surreal.

    They were all jet black. From seeing this, we are reminded that ADOS African Americans are 20% white, and that without that 20%, their African component would be very, very ebony.
    The father was a dead ringer for a younger Robert Mugabe, and had thick glasses, and was in office-like attire (collared dress shirt and khakhi pants). He was probably an MD physician. A stethoscope would not have looked out of place on him.
    The mother and daughter were slender and dressed in good clothes (itself a rare sight). The mother also seemed highly educated.
    The teenage son was nerdy-looking with glasses. Entirely unlike what we are accustomed to seeing with black youths. Rather Urkel-like, but not to the extreme of having flugs.
    You could tell that the parents diligently keep their children away from the destructive cultural programming that not just ADOS, but even most white kids are immersed in. I hope they succeed; so far it appeared that they were.

    If anything, everything about them was identical to a studious Asian family, except that they happened to be jet black Africans.

  36. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    How would they do this, just declare, “we have created an elite university!” For decades the idea of an elite university is just what people think of it. It has very little to do with what is being taught.

  37. What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?

    What if, instead, admissions involved the use of magical incantations sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?

    That’s all AI is to society’s word-chopping class – witchcraft, a magical black-box out of which pops the result they want not the result that would be dictated by reality.

  38. “the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test”

    This is a good thing dammit!

    There are still people who aren’t soulless or wasting their time on useless pursuits!

    People should work hard at acquiring useful skills, not polishing their sat scores.

  39. @Hypnotoad666
    @HammerJack

    For 60 years the smartest people at the smartest institutions have been trying to figure out how to get the same percentage of smart people from a population that is one standard deviation below average in IQ. Fryer's brilliant idea: Let's just delegate the problem to a supercomputer since data and AI can solve anything.

    Other problems this AI could equally solve include: How to design a perpetual motion machine? How to turn lead into gold? How to make pi into a rational number?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    How to make pi into a rational number?

    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing – some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though…

    • Replies: @Calvin Hobbes
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos…
     

    Or 6 pieces if you’re not so hungry.

    https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/yogi_berra_141844

    , @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://i.ibb.co/xgHmd1b/Mellow-Mushroom-Great-White.jpg

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @International Jew
    @Achmed E. Newman

    No, I've tried that. The bits that stick to your knife turn out to be of irrational thickness.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing – some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates.
     
    Nah. Any math graduate would apply monohedral tesselation, to get 12:

    https://hips.hearstapps.com/digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/16/35/1472641761-liv-uni-pizza.jpg

  40. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666


    How to make pi into a rational number?
     
    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing - some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though...

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Adam Smith, @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar

    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos…

    Or 6 pieces if you’re not so hungry.

    https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/yogi_berra_141844

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  41. @Twinkie

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?
     
    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test
     
    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions - for both gentile white and East Asian males - who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @kb, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar, @Alice in Wonderland

    good take

  42. A half century ago, at the dawn of affirmative action, Harvard let in some male urban achievers from the deepest reaches of the ghetto. Unfortunate Incidents ensued involving the physical safety of other students.

    By the end of the 70s, prep schools had set up their affirmative action pipelines as well, so Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.

    Forgive my ignorance, but what incidents are being referred to? I’d be interested in reading about them.

    • Replies: @winston smith
    @kb

    Here's just a few that popped up on a quick DDG search. This was a "thing" in the late 60s and early 70s.

    https://teachingsocialstudies.org/2019/08/03/student-takeover-at-cornell-university-1969/

    https://blackamericaweb.com/2018/05/03/little-known-black-history-50th-anniversary-of-black-student-take-over-at-northwestern-university/

    https://www.news.ucsb.edu/2018/019214/north-hall-takeover-50-years-later

    https://www.history.com/news/columbia-university-protest-occupation-1968

    https://www.mnopedia.org/event/morrill-hall-takeover-university-minnesota

    https://exhibits.uflib.ufl.edu/BlackThursdayUF/

    , @Almost Missouri
    @kb

    Maybe stuff like this:

    https://i.redd.it/xzoikw3ce4251.jpg

    https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change

    Okay, that's a different Ivy, but it was a big public spectacle. I think all the Ivies initially embraced the Great Racial Reconciliation they naïvely assumed was about to happen. Cornell's efforts failed most spectacularly, but I think they all suffered a epidemic of Unfortunate Incidents, it's just that most of the UIs were things that were easier to keep out of the public eye: rapes, assaults, threats, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @PiltdownMan

  43. @Twinkie

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?
     
    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test
     
    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions - for both gentile white and East Asian males - who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @kb, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar, @Alice in Wonderland

    Anybody have a more up-to-date or detailed source of data than this (with actual attributions/sources)?

    • Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
    @Twinkie

    I would like to see a table like this that is the Mean Score as a Percentile of the Asian distribution. I think it would be useful because the Asian group is the highest scoring and therefore would make a better benchmark than the second highest scoring group.

    , @res
    @Twinkie

    Looks like our host was the source of that. This 2018 piece
    https://unz.com/isteve/how-the-races-score-on-postgrad-admissions-tests/
    links the original 2009 VDARE article.
    https://vdare.com/articles/graduate-school-admissions-race-and-the-white-status-game

    Not more recent, but nonetheless worth a look.
    https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

    No time to dig deeper right now.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  44. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    Starting such a university wouldn’t just be legally impermissible. It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously: places like Yeshiva University or Brigham Young University. They don’t technically exclude those who aren’t members of their respective faiths, but they’re religiously rigorous enough that most other people stay away.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Wilkey


    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?
     
    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students. If you flunk, you must take a semester of swimming improvement. If you flunk the retest, you are expelled. Also, I would have a required first-semester course in traditional western literature. Finally, although I would grudgingly allow basketball and football teams, the athletic division would be the lowest available. And all sports would be limited to one hour of practice time per day. All of the above, apart from being an effective screening device, would be highly beneficial for all students.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @slumber_j

    , @Anonymous
    @Wilkey

    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    We're not talking of excluding nonwhites. We are talking of giving excluded whites(by Ivies) a fair chance based on merit and aptitude. That's it. It would be open to all as a policy.

    It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    That is pussy-ass talk: 'We can't do it because globalist corpies will diss us.' Well, boo hoo.

    So what? The American Revolution got the republic excluded and targeted by the British Empire. But, the Founders forged on anyway. Mormons were ridiculed and persecuted as a bunch of weirdo pervs, but they carried on despite all obstacles. Amish are growing against the odds. At one time, the idea of creating Israel was a pipe dream. But it happened.
    They all happened against adversity because of determination, will, and lots of guile too.
    But all you deliver is pussy-ass talk. Oh, the globo-corpies won't allow it, so I pee in my pants.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously

    Again, we are talking of a whites only college. We are talking of a college with fair admission policy. If Ron Unz is correct, smart whites are the most discriminated by the elite colleges. Worse, this anti-white policy seems to be spreading in state universities too.

    Then, conservatives should build their own elite university based on merit. Now, how do they ensure it won't be taken over by woke morons? The founding principles must be absolute free speech, and that will keep the woke away cuz they are deathly afraid of free speech. They simply will not apply because free speech is to the woke what oxygen is to bacteria. It kills em.

    Also, to make more attractive to whites and less attractive to non-whites, build it in some place where most nonwhites don't want to go.... like Wyoming, Montana, or some such place. White folks like nature and wilderness more than other races. Most nonwhites will not want to go all the way there to attend school. Another way to keep the woke pests away. Build monuments to great white figures like Beethoven, Shakespeare, and John Wayne.

    Replies: @Francis Miville

  45. @Twinkie

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?
     
    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test
     
    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions - for both gentile white and East Asian males - who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @kb, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar, @Alice in Wonderland

    …the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    These students end up somewhere. Wouldn’t the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?

    One really has to wonder how the Ivies and their peers will keep their faculties healthy as the student bodies degenerate. Unless all they care about is the compensation.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    Wouldn’t the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?
     
    Faculty members also crave the prestige of being affiliated with, well, prestigious institutions. Besides, university professors generally don't spend much time teaching undergraduates. They spend their time slave-driving their grad students and churning out peer-reviewed articles and, maybe, writing lucrative textbooks.

    I mean, why good could come from mingling with undergrads?

    https://youtu.be/hiMVx2C5_Wg

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  46. If we went back to a 90% European descended country, none of this would matter.

  47. @Anon

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Batman, @Arclight

    No, and this is a good point. The more recent immigrants are often from dominant/conqueror ancestry, and the American slaves were quite literally the conquered. But Steve does have a point in that the culture and mindset our society imprints on black descendants of slaves is not one that inculcates the behaviors that lead to high performance, and children of Africans probably avoid a lot of that (not sure about the next generation, though).

    At any rate, it is interesting to see leftist whites and blacks going to the mat for affirmative action to protect black enrollment rates at elite schools when in absolute numbers the beneficiaries who are descendants of slaves isn’t really that large. More troublesome is that at mid and lower level institutions schools admit loads of black students that are levered up with student loans that they simply will never be able to repay because they drop out or don’t obtain degrees with enough firepower to earn the money to pay them off.

    Higher ed is essentially like a mafia bust out, only applied to underqualified aspiring minority college students.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  48. @Wilkey
    @Anonymous


    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    Starting such a university wouldn’t just be legally impermissible. It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously: places like Yeshiva University or Brigham Young University. They don’t technically exclude those who aren’t members of their respective faiths, but they’re religiously rigorous enough that most other people stay away.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Anonymous

    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students. If you flunk, you must take a semester of swimming improvement. If you flunk the retest, you are expelled. Also, I would have a required first-semester course in traditional western literature. Finally, although I would grudgingly allow basketball and football teams, the athletic division would be the lowest available. And all sports would be limited to one hour of practice time per day. All of the above, apart from being an effective screening device, would be highly beneficial for all students.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @SafeNow


    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students.
     
    Why not require drownproofing?
    , @slumber_j
    @SafeNow

    As it happens, Harvard used to have a compulsory swim test for all freshmen. It went away sometime in the 1970s.

  49. I’m just surprised that the Washington Post actually published even that article, with its limited excursion into no-go topics.

    Also, they mustn’t have done their homework on Ronald Fryer. If any younger, female, editor had learned that he had been #me-tooed, the article would have been nixed, regardless of the fact that he’s black.

  50. Eradicating affirmative action is more stubborn than one might think, and one reason for this is that members of public enemy number one, white males, who manage to get into these elite schools, despite the disadvantages attendant with their race and sex, become amongst its fiercest defenders.

    Why is that?

    1) Makes their Ivy league degree even more impressive. If you’re a white guy who can get into these places, you must be extra special (not just special like the losers who don’t get in and bitch about AA, like the plaintiff in the Bakke case).

    2) Once admitted, you’re competing with a bunch of less qualified, affirmative action cases. What’s not to like?

    3) Why rock the boat and be labeled “racist”, even if you’re, you know, doing what’s right.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Patrick in SC


    Eradicating affirmative action is more stubborn than one might think, and one reason for this is that members of public enemy number one, white males, who manage to get into these elite schools, despite the disadvantages attendant with their race and sex, become amongst its fiercest defenders.

    Why is that?

    [...]

    2) Once admitted, you’re competing with a bunch of less qualified, affirmative action cases. What’s not to like?
     
    That you're in a minefield, where the mines are constantly changing their locations, effects and trigger conditions? And those AA cases will be intensely envious of your very real superiority?

    Note this shouldn't apply to Harvard which draws and can accept the best in the US and the world. And perhaps Harvard alone, not counting Caltech and MIT with their tough core math and science curriculum that for example all but eliminates the issue of legacy admits. See Thomas Sowell's writings on the cascading AA admission scam which he first noticed while teaching at Cornell. Below the level of Harvard, Caltech, MIT and I'm not sure where else, school goose their admissions statistics with AA students who can't do the work. But could at a lower level school, and that one too is admitting AA students who can't do the work.

    Back to the big white man on campus: even if you're a true believer, you've got a huge target painted on your back. Although maybe it's not so different at many, many state schools and less elite private ones which are also very very pozzed, and things can get quite nasty at mid-tier schools which are envious of the elite ones. And at those such a person would also stand out even more compared to the white men and women attending....
  51. @Hypnotoad666
    @TGGP

    The gap between immigrant and domestic blacks in IQ is most likely because immigrant blacks (like Indians, but unlike Mexicans), are highly self-selected for educational attainment and IQ as compared to the average for their native countries.

    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population's average, but to approximately the average between their parent's IQs and the population average. Thus, you'd expect a higher IQ to persist at least into the second generation (before fading out through admixture with the local blacks).

    So the difference is most easily explained with plain old IQ, rather than squishy culture explanations. Sometimes I think Steve goes out of his way to bark up the "culture" tree in trying to explain black scores.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Thomm

    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population’s average, but to approximately the average between their parent’s IQs and the population average.

    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one’s ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Twinkie


    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one’s ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.
     
    Yes, that's true. But it just depends how much information you have. If you knew the IQs of every ancestor you could figure out the mean and SD of an individual's expected IQ more accurately. But if you don't have that information, the statistical expectation is that the parent/ancestor genotype is approximately midway between their phenotype and the mean of the general population they come from. (It works both ways, of course, whether they are above or below the mean). There would be some nuance that a mathematician or geneticist could add to the calculation, but basically the average between your parents' IQ, and the average of their ancestors' IQs (weighted by how close of an ancestor they were), would be your average expected IQ. But since most people aren't likely to know the IQs of their parents, much less their grandparents, it's all just Bayesian priors/guessing based on the underlying population they come from
    , @Bill Jones
    @Twinkie


    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one’s ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.
     
    I agree. Regression of The Talented Tenth toward the mean of the White/Asian population would be an increase in IQ.
  52. Anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income? Enquring minds want to know.

    Do they predict performance? Do they predict societal contribution?

  53. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey
    @Anonymous


    If there’s so much untapped white talent, why don’t white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?
     
    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    Starting such a university wouldn’t just be legally impermissible. It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously: places like Yeshiva University or Brigham Young University. They don’t technically exclude those who aren’t members of their respective faiths, but they’re religiously rigorous enough that most other people stay away.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Anonymous

    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    We’re not talking of excluding nonwhites. We are talking of giving excluded whites(by Ivies) a fair chance based on merit and aptitude. That’s it. It would be open to all as a policy.

    It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    That is pussy-ass talk: ‘We can’t do it because globalist corpies will diss us.’ Well, boo hoo.

    So what? The American Revolution got the republic excluded and targeted by the British Empire. But, the Founders forged on anyway. Mormons were ridiculed and persecuted as a bunch of weirdo pervs, but they carried on despite all obstacles. Amish are growing against the odds. At one time, the idea of creating Israel was a pipe dream. But it happened.
    They all happened against adversity because of determination, will, and lots of guile too.
    But all you deliver is pussy-ass talk. Oh, the globo-corpies won’t allow it, so I pee in my pants.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously

    Again, we are talking of a whites only college. We are talking of a college with fair admission policy. If Ron Unz is correct, smart whites are the most discriminated by the elite colleges. Worse, this anti-white policy seems to be spreading in state universities too.

    Then, conservatives should build their own elite university based on merit. Now, how do they ensure it won’t be taken over by woke morons? The founding principles must be absolute free speech, and that will keep the woke away cuz they are deathly afraid of free speech. They simply will not apply because free speech is to the woke what oxygen is to bacteria. It kills em.

    Also, to make more attractive to whites and less attractive to non-whites, build it in some place where most nonwhites don’t want to go…. like Wyoming, Montana, or some such place. White folks like nature and wilderness more than other races. Most nonwhites will not want to go all the way there to attend school. Another way to keep the woke pests away. Build monuments to great white figures like Beethoven, Shakespeare, and John Wayne.

    • Replies: @Francis Miville
    @Anonymous

    Make either Greek and Latin, either German and Russian obligatory with courses given using it : declension-based languages are especially displeasing to POC's and also to ((())) even when they master them. Baden-Powell-style life in contact with raw nature also pisses off POC and ((())) so impose kind of Outward-Bound stages to all students. Impose serious courses of bird-watching and wild animal care.

  54. Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    First nice thing I’ve ever heard Steve say about White people.

  55. Anon[138] • Disclaimer says:

    Some context that Steve may have missed. Fryer was taken down by three female black administrators at Harvard, midwit affirmative action hires all, who resented the fact that Fryer behaved like he was the only black at Harvard who deserved to be there. His was sent to sit on the naughty step for two years, but he knows he’ll never completely recover. His focus now is to extract revenge by getting rich, and he established a consultancy by which to do that. Everything you read from or about him now has some tie-in with this consultancy gig. He’s coming up with all kinds of diversity related gimmicks that he can package for sale to educational institutions, all with some sort of hocus-pocus handwavey math-based spin. This latest AI admissions pitch fits the pattern. Does he really believe it will work? Does he even care? Who knows? Is he making more money than Harvard paid him? Undoubtedly yes. STEMy black guy with a whiff of the ghetto speaking vernacular black English selling DEI potions? Hell yes! Here’s a blank check!

  56. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    ...the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.
     
    These students end up somewhere. Wouldn't the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?

    One really has to wonder how the Ivies and their peers will keep their faculties healthy as the student bodies degenerate. Unless all they care about is the compensation.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Wouldn’t the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?

    Faculty members also crave the prestige of being affiliated with, well, prestigious institutions. Besides, university professors generally don’t spend much time teaching undergraduates. They spend their time slave-driving their grad students and churning out peer-reviewed articles and, maybe, writing lucrative textbooks.

    I mean, why good could come from mingling with undergrads?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie

    I'm not sure which "tier" of New England universities Clark ranks in, but it certainly isn't the top. Yet in two programs they could always compete with any of them-- psychology and geography. When shopping around for graduate geography programs, I quickly wrote Clark off the list. Yale's or Harvard's would have been easier to get into.

    Clark managed to build prestige in selected departments. It was an early player in the superstar prof game. They lost Franz Boas in anthropology to Columbia, but managed to snag Ellen Churchill Semple from Chicago for geography. (The draw appears to have been tenure; it sure wasn't money.) The physics department got Robert Goddard to teach rocketry-- in his hometown.

    So a "lesser" institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

  57. @SafeNow
    Human interviewers would do a better job than any algorithm, when it comes to deciding which candidates are best suited to making a qualitative jump. An Officers Candidate School admissions board does a superb job of assessing who has it and who doesn’t. It is, or at least used to be, a very structured interview, to prevent it from sympathetically wandering-off into topics the candidate is more comfortable with. I think a similar rigorous, pesky, interview process for college admissions would ascertain, among other qualities, who has a chip on his shoulder.

    Replies: @Alden, @Almost Missouri

    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. The officer selection boards are only interested in race diversity and sex. 2022 2022, almost 2023. I’m old too. But I know what year it is.

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Alden


    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. I’m old too. But I know what year it is…
    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.
     
    You raise a good point but there’s this. I have a few times posted a vintage photo of a late-50s suburban street, children at play, a mother sitting on her front lawn with a Collie (not a Pit Bull.) Young people today have no idea of what living in those times was like. Old timers have a responsibility to pass along a sense of what was. Then, if young people decide no thanks, because they prefer the coarsening of society and culture, then well, I tried. And I will remain “behind the times” in my personal life. Music, movies, poetry, habits of speech, patterns of thought, and so on.

    Replies: @Alden

  58. @SafeNow
    @Wilkey


    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?
     
    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students. If you flunk, you must take a semester of swimming improvement. If you flunk the retest, you are expelled. Also, I would have a required first-semester course in traditional western literature. Finally, although I would grudgingly allow basketball and football teams, the athletic division would be the lowest available. And all sports would be limited to one hour of practice time per day. All of the above, apart from being an effective screening device, would be highly beneficial for all students.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @slumber_j

    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students.

    Why not require drownproofing?

  59. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666


    How to make pi into a rational number?
     
    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing - some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though...

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Adam Smith, @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Adam Smith

    It's not a Fibonacci pi [sic], I don't think. Is that a Communist-style division - from each according to his dough, to each according to his kneeds?

    I'll just take care of this myself:

    • Groan: Achmed E. Newman

    Replies: @Adam Smith

  60. There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.

    We’re getting Africa’s cognitive elite minorities like Igbos. Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren’t, I don’t know if it would make much of a difference in this case.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Dave Pinsen


    Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren’t, I don’t know if it would make much of a difference in this case.
     
    Consider this:

    https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/reports/2010/b2465/b2465_chart10.jpg

    The post-60's has been catastrophic for proper family-formation and particularly so for American blacks.

    Replies: @Jon, @Almost Missouri

  61. @Twinkie
    @megabar


    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.
     
    Recently I saw Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss how to improve the performance of blacks in this country. I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children and then have those children marry each other and rinse and repeat. In a number of generations later, you’d have a high performing black population. Of course, they might suffer from genetic bottleneck/founders effects and evince supremacism and a high degree of tribalism, but they’d do well.

    Simple. Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement - as in Aesop’s proverbial belling of the cat.

    Replies: @Inverness, @Achmed E. Newman, @Jon

    Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement …

    Yeah, it’s especially hard when you’ve been doing the opposite for more than half a century.

    I’ve worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don’t have many kids – one as an average, from a limited number that I know. That’s no different from the story of White people – the Welfare State has been re-distributing the money that could go for that “family formation” to dumber people who are doing lots of (usually single-parent) family formation stuff instead.

    First, you’ve got to stop digging! That means eliminating the Welfare State. Heard anything about that from anyone in power lately? Me neither.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I’ve worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don’t have many kids – one as an average, from a limited number that I know.
     
    You are not wrong here - someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don't remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall, and black women are not exceptions to those trends.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Almost Missouri

    , @BosTex
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks Achmed.

    May be it isn’t so much about eliminating the welfare state, but rather make it work in favor of the middle class and working people and not for the layabouts and the parasites?

    The legitimately needy (mentally handicapped, etc): we’ll always have to care for, but if you are a lazy, parasitical bum: nothing should be easy for you. Take a hike.

  62. @Twinkie

    A really important question is how valid are the super-high college admissions testing scores that Asians have been earning in this century. Do they accurately predict post-grad test scores like the MCAT and LSAT? Do they predict income?
     
    Why just MCAT and LSAT? Why not the GRE and GMAT too? And the ACT while we are at it.

    And why not go all the way to MD and attorney sanction rates as proxies for real world outcome? Oh, wait, someone named Charles Murray already did.

    the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test
     
    This is not the 1970’s. While I agree that the Ivies discriminate strongly against non-Jewish white males from rural areas, especially the Midwest and the South, the people hurt by that discrimination aren’t those who can’t muster the effort to do more than one practice test. It’s those gentile non-elite whites who have high intelligence and who diligently studied and prepared for college (and, yes, college entrance) who are still declined despite having high qualifications, including excellent scores.

    This whole “these guile-less white males with less than stellar scores are declined by elite schools because of Affirmative Action” is a cope for parents with middling, unmotivated children. It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions - for both gentile white and East Asian males - who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @kb, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar, @Alice in Wonderland

    I think the guileless (lol) white boys of Nebraska aren’t turned down because they aren’t applying to elite schools. Those guys want to go to places like Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, Ohio, etc. It’s when AA keeps competent male students out of those schools that parents aka taxpayers get ticked off. Their kids could go to some private school, but those are extremely expensive. Residents want their kids to be able to get into their University of Texas or University of Michigan because they are good, but they are also way way cheaper than the private schools. This is why we have legislation that mandates the schools take the top x% of resident students. They also have automatic acceptance for resident students who meet certain minimum SAT/ACT score. requirements. White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Alice in Wonderland

    My contemporaries in California, who attended places like Berkeley and UCLA, have found that their children (no less bright than they) can't get into those places. They end up sending Junior to University of Arizona or Colorado, paying out of state tuition.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Alice in Wonderland


    White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.
     
    The legal team who brought Heller to the Supreme Court desperately wanted a black and/or female plaintiff, but were stuck with an old white male security guard. Their favored black lady, and several others, were turned away for lack of standing. They had never actually applied for a licence, and thus were never turned down. Dick Heller had.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Alice in Wonderland

    Enforcing the Coming Affirmative Action Bans: A Modest Proposal.

    https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2022/10/27/enforcing-the-coming-affirmative-action-bans-a-modest-proposal/

    States could do this for their public schools. Hello, Ron DeSantis?

  63. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Twinkie


    Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement ...
     
    Yeah, it's especially hard when you've been doing the opposite for more than half a century.

    I've worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don't have many kids - one as an average, from a limited number that I know. That's no different from the story of White people - the Welfare State has been re-distributing the money that could go for that "family formation" to dumber people who are doing lots of (usually single-parent) family formation stuff instead.

    First, you've got to stop digging! That means eliminating the Welfare State. Heard anything about that from anyone in power lately? Me neither.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @BosTex

    I’ve worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don’t have many kids – one as an average, from a limited number that I know.

    You are not wrong here – someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don’t remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall, and black women are not exceptions to those trends.

    • Replies: @BosTex
    @Twinkie

    Thanks Twinkie.

    I seem to recall that black American fertility was especially dysgenic, such that educated black females had much, much lower fertility than their
    lower IQ sisters.

    Higher IQ white women were as fertile or pretty close to lower IQ white women. There wasn’t a huge difference.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don’t remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.
     
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/dark-dysgenics/

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall
     
    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but "highly"? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE's post, above.

    black women are not exceptions to those trends.
     
    No, they're not: they're one of the main drivers of those trends. The other driver is the lunatic import-the-third-world policy.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  64. @Twinkie
    @Twinkie

    Anybody have a more up-to-date or detailed source of data than this (with actual attributions/sources)?

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/07/0a/83070a5b560a31e61a4e77d7cac8b5e2.png

    Replies: @Alice in Wonderland, @res

    I would like to see a table like this that is the Mean Score as a Percentile of the Asian distribution. I think it would be useful because the Asian group is the highest scoring and therefore would make a better benchmark than the second highest scoring group.

  65. @Hypnotoad666
    @TGGP

    The gap between immigrant and domestic blacks in IQ is most likely because immigrant blacks (like Indians, but unlike Mexicans), are highly self-selected for educational attainment and IQ as compared to the average for their native countries.

    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population's average, but to approximately the average between their parent's IQs and the population average. Thus, you'd expect a higher IQ to persist at least into the second generation (before fading out through admixture with the local blacks).

    So the difference is most easily explained with plain old IQ, rather than squishy culture explanations. Sometimes I think Steve goes out of his way to bark up the "culture" tree in trying to explain black scores.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Thomm

    I saw an educated UMC African family at Trader Joe’s a few weeks ago.

    It was surreal.

    They were all jet black. From seeing this, we are reminded that ADOS African Americans are 20% white, and that without that 20%, their African component would be very, very ebony.
    The father was a dead ringer for a younger Robert Mugabe, and had thick glasses, and was in office-like attire (collared dress shirt and khakhi pants). He was probably an MD physician. A stethoscope would not have looked out of place on him.
    The mother and daughter were slender and dressed in good clothes (itself a rare sight). The mother also seemed highly educated.
    The teenage son was nerdy-looking with glasses. Entirely unlike what we are accustomed to seeing with black youths. Rather Urkel-like, but not to the extreme of having flugs.
    You could tell that the parents diligently keep their children away from the destructive cultural programming that not just ADOS, but even most white kids are immersed in. I hope they succeed; so far it appeared that they were.

    If anything, everything about them was identical to a studious Asian family, except that they happened to be jet black Africans.

  66. Fryer writes:

    If racial diversity is the only goal, then explicit racial preferences — which are already illegal — are the most efficient way to achieve it. Mathematically, the optimal policy amounts to treating each race as a distinct applicant pool, and then admitting the top students from each one.

    But this is exactly what is done today at elite schools, and not just for racial groups. Schools set the target number of international students (and this is in fact broken out between Asia and Europe etc.), the number of admits each coach is allowed to select, usually there is a softer target by high school for a small number of feeder schools specific to that college, etc. There is a specific target for the number of black students to be admitted this year, and as a practical matter all black applicants are competing for those spots, and nobody else is.

    This is one reason I’m very skeptical about what effect any SCOTUS decision would have in this case. As Fryer notes, SCOTUS has previously declared this to be illegal. Yet, everybody knows that not just HYPSM, but at least the top 20 schools, and likely many more, do it every year. If SCOTUS makes it double-extra illegal, the colleges will just make up some other new bullshit words for it, and with the benefit of opacity keep doing it.

  67. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666


    How to make pi into a rational number?
     
    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing - some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though...

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Adam Smith, @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar

    No, I’ve tried that. The bits that stick to your knife turn out to be of irrational thickness.

  68. Fryer writes about using “AI” (i.e., data + math) to automate college admissions that:

    It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance — as defined by each institution, such as college grade-point average or income 10 years after graduation. The model could figure out which characteristics best predict performance for various subgroups

    Fryer is a smart guy, so he must understand that the entire Arts & Sciences faculty at Harvard would immediately begin to debate the definition of “performance.” You can hear it now: “Are you saying that we at Harvard should view Chad the rapacious Wall Street banker making $5 million per year as higher performance than Jacquelle who is running an NGO assisting low-income neighborhoods reduce carbon emissions by eliminating food deserts?” It would take about 10 minutes to reverse-engineer the definition of performance to create the desired racial composition of this year’s freshman class.

    Fryer has to be sophisticated enough mathematically and practically to understand this, so an interesting question to me is what he is really trying to accomplish by making the suggestion — presumably “follow the money” is the best advice to figuring that out.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Recently Based

    Harvard didn't get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won't tell you what it knows, which I'm betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Recently Based, @William Badwhite, @That Would Be Telling

  69. Why can’t they make the universities bigger?

    It seems that’s the real problem…too many smart people.

  70. Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.

    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Rawhide!
    Don’t try to understand ’em
    Just rope, and throw, and brand ’em
    Soon we’ll be living high and wide.

    Fryer didn’t go to Choate, but to Lewisville High in the exploding northern suburbs of the Metroplex.

    This area is yellowing rapidly. Lewisville is 10% Asian, nearby Plano 24%. 68,000 whites moved into the county from 2010 to 2020, but their percentage sunk from 64% to 54%.

    Has Fryer been attending reunions?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    This area is yellowing rapidly. Lewisville is 10% Asian, nearby Plano 24%.
     
    Or browning. Indians are now the plurality of Asians in America and are the largest legal immigrant group, with no sign of that trend abating.
    , @International Jew
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, but Harvard didn't take Fryer out of high school. They let U Texas at Arlington (BA) and Penn State (PhD) vet him first.

    And in case you're wondering, No, no white man with that kind of resume would ever end up on the Harvard economics faculty.

  71. @Twinkie
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I’ve worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don’t have many kids – one as an average, from a limited number that I know.
     
    You are not wrong here - someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don't remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall, and black women are not exceptions to those trends.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Almost Missouri

    Thanks Twinkie.

    I seem to recall that black American fertility was especially dysgenic, such that educated black females had much, much lower fertility than their
    lower IQ sisters.

    Higher IQ white women were as fertile or pretty close to lower IQ white women. There wasn’t a huge difference.

  72. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666


    How to make pi into a rational number?
     
    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing - some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates. At least they give the right change, though...

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Adam Smith, @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar

    Cut the damn thing into 8 pieces like they do at Dominos, instead of doing that whole circumference divided by diameter thing – some pizza joints hire entirely too many unemployed mathematics graduates.

    Nah. Any math graduate would apply monohedral tesselation, to get 12:

  73. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Twinkie


    Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement ...
     
    Yeah, it's especially hard when you've been doing the opposite for more than half a century.

    I've worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don't have many kids - one as an average, from a limited number that I know. That's no different from the story of White people - the Welfare State has been re-distributing the money that could go for that "family formation" to dumber people who are doing lots of (usually single-parent) family formation stuff instead.

    First, you've got to stop digging! That means eliminating the Welfare State. Heard anything about that from anyone in power lately? Me neither.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @BosTex

    Thanks Achmed.

    May be it isn’t so much about eliminating the welfare state, but rather make it work in favor of the middle class and working people and not for the layabouts and the parasites?

    The legitimately needy (mentally handicapped, etc): we’ll always have to care for, but if you are a lazy, parasitical bum: nothing should be easy for you. Take a hike.

  74. @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population’s average, but to approximately the average between their parent’s IQs and the population average.
     
    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one's ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Bill Jones

    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one’s ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    Yes, that’s true. But it just depends how much information you have. If you knew the IQs of every ancestor you could figure out the mean and SD of an individual’s expected IQ more accurately. But if you don’t have that information, the statistical expectation is that the parent/ancestor genotype is approximately midway between their phenotype and the mean of the general population they come from. (It works both ways, of course, whether they are above or below the mean). There would be some nuance that a mathematician or geneticist could add to the calculation, but basically the average between your parents’ IQ, and the average of their ancestors’ IQs (weighted by how close of an ancestor they were), would be your average expected IQ. But since most people aren’t likely to know the IQs of their parents, much less their grandparents, it’s all just Bayesian priors/guessing based on the underlying population they come from

  75. @Dave Pinsen

    There’s something very wrong with post 1964 Civil Rights Act African-American culture that blacks from liberal America are less and less able to compete with blacks from more socially conservative cultures in Africa.
     
    We're getting Africa's cognitive elite minorities like Igbos. Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren't, I don't know if it would make much of a difference in this case.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren’t, I don’t know if it would make much of a difference in this case.

    Consider this:

    The post-60’s has been catastrophic for proper family-formation and particularly so for American blacks.

    • Replies: @Jon
    @Twinkie

    At least we got rid of abortion.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    WTH happened in 1994?



    (First guess: change in accounting method. But why would that make a noticeable difference? Do people not know if they are married? Change in common law marriages?)

    Replies: @Twinkie

  76. @Buzz Mohawk

    Here’s what they’d find: the demographic most underexploited by elite colleges is Red State white boys who don’t know all the tricks and traps about how to worm your way into college, the ones who took the SAT or ACT only once, having prepped for it by taking one practice test; the boys who wrote their application essay about becoming an Eagle Scout; the ones who don’t realize that using “equality” instead of “equity” in your essay is now a Red Flag.
     
    Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

    Replies: @Alden, @Brit

    As a non American I can’t help thinking that the anti Red State bias is storing up a potential problem for liberals. Basically a lot of the very bright and driven young men (and presumably a good chunk of women as well) are not being Ivy Leagued. They go to a decent university, probably near enough home to keep up their social capital and are far more likely to stay within their communities and over time become local leaders rather than being creamed off and becoming part of the coastal elite.

    Of course some of those who go to an Ivy League school will stay Conservative and so there is some ability to navigate the halls of national power that is lost, and perhaps even some wealth lost. And some of those who stay at home will still become quite liberal because they are still going through the credentialed academic mill – although even then more likely to be a more problematic populist liberal.

    But in general the Red States are being allowed to keep a leadership cadre, and that’s before any idea of discrimination starts to bristle.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  77. @Recently Based
    Fryer writes about using "AI" (i.e., data + math) to automate college admissions that:

    It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance — as defined by each institution, such as college grade-point average or income 10 years after graduation. The model could figure out which characteristics best predict performance for various subgroups
     
    Fryer is a smart guy, so he must understand that the entire Arts & Sciences faculty at Harvard would immediately begin to debate the definition of "performance." You can hear it now: "Are you saying that we at Harvard should view Chad the rapacious Wall Street banker making $5 million per year as higher performance than Jacquelle who is running an NGO assisting low-income neighborhoods reduce carbon emissions by eliminating food deserts?" It would take about 10 minutes to reverse-engineer the definition of performance to create the desired racial composition of this year's freshman class.

    Fryer has to be sophisticated enough mathematically and practically to understand this, so an interesting question to me is what he is really trying to accomplish by making the suggestion -- presumably "follow the money" is the best advice to figuring that out.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Harvard didn’t get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won’t tell you what it knows, which I’m betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Steve Sailer


    Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won’t tell you what it knows, which I’m betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.
     
    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    , @Recently Based
    @Steve Sailer

    As you've pointed out previously, Harvard has been very astute at managing its brand for centuries. So, if they really want to let in more Haven Monahans, why aren't they doing what Fryer suggest now? It's not like they have been somehow unaware of the idea of building a regression (sorry, "AI") model to predict alumni giving by person until Fryer wrote this article.

    Instead, they are literally going to the Supreme Court to protect their right to admit more blacks.

    , @William Badwhite
    @Steve Sailer

    Indeed...



    white male legacy
     
    https://news.yale.edu/2013/09/29/historic-250-million-gift-yale-alumnus-largest-ever

    Republican
     
    https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Charles-Johnson-donates-to-Herschel-Walker-16582030.php

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @That Would Be Telling
    @Steve Sailer

    You're overstating Harvard's competence with money, at least for a period of time, maybe they've recovered. They got their endowment that high, and this increment without restrictions, by setting up a best of the best Wall Street style hedge firm to manage the endowment. And got crazy high returns.

    But part of that business model is paying its people Wall Street compensation, and that just wouldn't do for the faculty and administrators getting paid much less. So those people, including the risk manager and his team were purged, while Harvard somehow expected their replacements would continue to deliver its outsized results. For example started to build a new campus from scratch in Allston on the other side of the river.

    Then the Great Recession hit. As the most notorious extreme, the replacements were so terribad they lost a cool billion dollars by simply not noticing and closing out a very bad investment. That new campus last time I checked was halted in progress, foundation concrete etc. poured and an eyesore.

    OK, now it's got something, a 500,000+ square foot Science and Engineering Complex (SEC) which would comport with slumber_j's comment that Harvard’s a lot more engineer-y than it used to be.

    Along with it competing with Stanford, which of course is a lot more like Harvard than MIT which is in easy walking distance of the main Harvard campus in Cambridge. Not sure if that'll work, Harvard has been trying for more than a century to become a great engineering school. Although it is a great science and math school.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.
     
    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Rawhide!
    Don't try to understand 'em
    Just rope, and throw, and brand 'em
    Soon we'll be living high and wide.

    Fryer didn't go to Choate, but to Lewisville High in the exploding northern suburbs of the Metroplex.


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Lewisville_High_School_logo.jpg


    This area is yellowing rapidly. Lewisville is 10% Asian, nearby Plano 24%. 68,000 whites moved into the county from 2010 to 2020, but their percentage sunk from 64% to 54%.

    Has Fryer been attending reunions?

    Replies: @Twinkie, @International Jew

    This area is yellowing rapidly. Lewisville is 10% Asian, nearby Plano 24%.

    Or browning. Indians are now the plurality of Asians in America and are the largest legal immigrant group, with no sign of that trend abating.

  79. @Steve Sailer
    @Recently Based

    Harvard didn't get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won't tell you what it knows, which I'm betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Recently Based, @William Badwhite, @That Would Be Telling

    Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won’t tell you what it knows, which I’m betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings
     
    Since you mentioned it, I took a quick look at what Li Ka-shing, reputedly Hong Kong's richest man, and a savvy investor who sold his Chinese assets long before* the current ructions, has done, in philanthropic terms. It appears he donated $120m to set up a medical school in Hong Kong.

    https://www.lihs.cuhk.edu.hk/en-us/introduction/thedonor.aspx

    And he donated ~$1.25b to set up a new university in China:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3016416/hong-kong-tycoon-li-ka-shings-influence-threatened-shantou

    This isn't apparently unique. Wealthy Chinese tycoons have often been big backers of charitable initiatives. The problem is that the Chinese state fears their influence, and for good reason. The First Emperor took power as the result of the efforts of a wealthy sponsor and wheeler dealer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BC_Buwei

    The Han dynasty was founded by an illiterate peasant backed by a wealthy father-in-law who took a shine to him based on his natural charisma, and decided to marry his daughter to the man. The narrative reads like Horatio Alger, albeit with oceans of blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Gaozu_of_Han#Birth_and_early_life

    The merchant princes of the West undid its absolute monarchies, either defanging them or abolishing them outright. Pure power politics, not ideological dogma, is at the root of Xi Jinping's quest to level out Chinese society - wealthy tycoons might back his enemies and undo his reign.

    An interesting footnote - in medieval China, a wealthy merchant whose business had been adversely impacted by royal impositions decided to carve a fief out for himself. He had previously been generous with his wealth, and quickly attracted a significant following. While his efforts came to naught, he achieved a kind of immortality in the Chinese classic novel The Water Margin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_La

    * Li took considerable flak from Xi Jinping's minions for his now obviously prescient move:

    https://www.thechinastory.org/yearbooks/yearbook-2015/forum-the-well-%E4%BA%95/li-ka-shing-moves-investments-out-of-china/

    Replies: @Twinkie

  80. @kb

    A half century ago, at the dawn of affirmative action, Harvard let in some male urban achievers from the deepest reaches of the ghetto. Unfortunate Incidents ensued involving the physical safety of other students.

    By the end of the 70s, prep schools had set up their affirmative action pipelines as well, so Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.

     

    Forgive my ignorance, but what incidents are being referred to? I'd be interested in reading about them.

    Replies: @winston smith, @Almost Missouri

  81. @Twinkie
    @megabar


    I wonder if dysgenic selection in the USA can account for some part of this, and if so, to what extent.
     
    Recently I saw Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss how to improve the performance of blacks in this country. I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children and then have those children marry each other and rinse and repeat. In a number of generations later, you’d have a high performing black population. Of course, they might suffer from genetic bottleneck/founders effects and evince supremacism and a high degree of tribalism, but they’d do well.

    Simple. Of course, simple things are often the hardest things to implement - as in Aesop’s proverbial belling of the cat.

    Replies: @Inverness, @Achmed E. Newman, @Jon

    I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children

    The elites are pushing a similar idea – improve the genetics of blacks by breeding them with whites.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jon

    But they're doing it backwards.

    Instead of taking the abundant sperm from the high-performing lower-breeding population and crossing it to the scarcer eggs of the lower-performing higher-breeding population, they are taking the abundant sperm of the lower-performing higher-breeding population and crossing it to the scarce eggs of higher-performing lower-breeding population.

    smdh

    IOW if the elites really want to improve genetics, they should be concubining blackish women to whitish men. Instead they are doing the opposite and will get the opposite result.

    Elites: stupid or evil?

    Replies: @BB753

  82. Yeah, that was my assumption too. If AI or ML could produce better predictions of performance and still yield significant black admissions, Harvard would already be doing it. And if Asian SATs were over-predicting college or job performance, Harvard would already know that and justify its actions on that basis, not on some hoked-up personality excuse.

  83. @Twinkie
    @Dave Pinsen


    Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren’t, I don’t know if it would make much of a difference in this case.
     
    Consider this:

    https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/reports/2010/b2465/b2465_chart10.jpg

    The post-60's has been catastrophic for proper family-formation and particularly so for American blacks.

    Replies: @Jon, @Almost Missouri

    At least we got rid of abortion.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Jon

    Ahhh yes, abortion, the Holy Grail, the Supreme goal of all the retarded idiot conservative White men who want more and more black and brown babies born. Who will grow up and continue to take our jobs housing education and everything from us.

    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  84. @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://i.ibb.co/xgHmd1b/Mellow-Mushroom-Great-White.jpg

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s not a Fibonacci pi [sic], I don’t think. Is that a Communist-style division – from each according to his dough, to each according to his kneeds?

    I’ll just take care of this myself:

    • Groan: Achmed E. Newman

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Nah. It's not a Fibonacci Pi, a Marxist pizza or anything so clever.
    It's simply what Mrs. Smith and I had for lunch yesterday.
    And it was delicious!

  85. @Twinkie
    @Dave Pinsen


    Post-1964 African American culture is bad, but if it weren’t, I don’t know if it would make much of a difference in this case.
     
    Consider this:

    https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/reports/2010/b2465/b2465_chart10.jpg

    The post-60's has been catastrophic for proper family-formation and particularly so for American blacks.

    Replies: @Jon, @Almost Missouri

    WTH happened in 1994?

    [MORE]

    (First guess: change in accounting method. But why would that make a noticeable difference? Do people not know if they are married? Change in common law marriages?)

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri


    First guess: change in accounting method
     
    Quite possibly.

    Here are several different graphs:

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/figure7-1-w640.png

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Nonmarital_Birth_Rates_in_the_United_States%2C_1940-2014.png/500px-Nonmarital_Birth_Rates_in_the_United_States%2C_1940-2014.png

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iXHBKiV8Pd0/TYPA6eFtC9I/AAAAAAAAADw/ibdyMOW3c8k/s1600/Married.png
  86. @JimB

    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.
     
    Um, I don’t think Harvard’s algorithm would select for that. MIT and CalTech might. How about Harvard using a case study approach to teach its algorithm to reject retarded dickheads.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    Harvard’s a lot more engineer-y than it used to be. Imagine a terrified Harvard trying its hardest to be Stanford so as not to “fall behind” its upstart west-coast rival: that’s what’s been going on for about a decade now, and they’ve thrown tons of resources at it.

    • Replies: @JimB
    @slumber_j


    Harvard’s a lot more engineer-y than it used to be. Imagine a terrified Harvard trying its hardest to be Stanford so as not to “fall behind” its upstart west-coast rival: that’s what’s been going on for about a decade now, and they’ve thrown tons of resources at it.
     
    Perhaps so, but less than 18% of their students receive STEM degrees, and that makes them a liberal arts university. Stanford is Harvard’s competitor in professional programs and pure sciences, not engineering. And MIT has taught Harvard the futility of trying to compete in engineering.
  87. @Steve Sailer
    @Recently Based

    Harvard didn't get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won't tell you what it knows, which I'm betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Recently Based, @William Badwhite, @That Would Be Telling

    As you’ve pointed out previously, Harvard has been very astute at managing its brand for centuries. So, if they really want to let in more Haven Monahans, why aren’t they doing what Fryer suggest now? It’s not like they have been somehow unaware of the idea of building a regression (sorry, “AI”) model to predict alumni giving by person until Fryer wrote this article.

    Instead, they are literally going to the Supreme Court to protect their right to admit more blacks.

  88. A machine-learning model would be fed historical admissions data, including candidates’ family background and academic achievement, and noncognitive skills such as grit and resilience, along with outcomes of past admission decisions. It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance — as defined by each institution, such as college grade-point average or income 10 years after graduation. The model could figure out which characteristics best predict performance for various subgroups — for example, how salient SAT scores are for public-school Black students raised in the South by single mothers vs. private-school White kids from the Northeast. If we use only unadjusted test scores, all that context is lost.

    This approach would sidestep other thorny issues in college admissions as well. If, as some have argued, the SAT test is racially biased, the algorithm could place less weight on scores for Black students. If students who demonstrate resilience as children are more likely to be hidden gems, the data will show that, too.

    Anybody know what this “grit and resilience” stuff is that will be “fed” into machine learning models as “data” is?

    Are they going to do quantitative stress-testing on applicants now?

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Burnett
    @Almost Missouri

    I was waiting for someone to comment on that reference. So much of this AI stuff is snake-oil nonsense that depends on people not asking the obvious questions.

  89. @SafeNow
    @Wilkey


    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?
     
    I suggest having a rigorous swim test for all matriculating students. If you flunk, you must take a semester of swimming improvement. If you flunk the retest, you are expelled. Also, I would have a required first-semester course in traditional western literature. Finally, although I would grudgingly allow basketball and football teams, the athletic division would be the lowest available. And all sports would be limited to one hour of practice time per day. All of the above, apart from being an effective screening device, would be highly beneficial for all students.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @slumber_j

    As it happens, Harvard used to have a compulsory swim test for all freshmen. It went away sometime in the 1970s.

  90. What did Fryer do to get MeToo’ed?

  91. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    It probably wouldn’t be worth it, and it would eventually become Woke. Those boys are better off getting community college/tech school/real world training to make money and build families and power.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lhhfdsdrfgf


    It probably wouldn’t be worth it, and it would eventually become Woke.
     
    Universities became woke cuz of lack of free speech and administration.

    What you do is found a university with a pro-white administration that is committed to free speech.
    It doesn't have to be explicitly white or only white. Just a matter of SWPL2, which is Stuff White Patriots Like.

    Total free speech alone will keep most progs, blacks, and others away. They want safe spaces, whereas this will be a frontier education. Frontier in the freedom of thought and discussion.
    And no hypocrisy. Most 'conservative' institutions bitch about lack of free speech in woke colleges but are utterly silent about anti-BDS laws and silencing of critics of Israel. This college will allow true free speech for all.

    Also, play classic music at regular intervals around campus, and that alone will make most blacks not apply.

    Erect statues of men like Robert E. Lee(as well as Abe Lincoln for balance).
    And this college will celebrate not homos and blacks and such stuff but Eurocentric themes and events. Again, all are welcome, but most progs and non-whites will not come.

    Now, running a top notch science and medical institution is very expensive, so this college can focus on arts, culture, humanities, ideas, and etc. You don't need expensive labs to do those. And there can be training centers for white patriots in film-making, music, and other creative endeavors.

    Universities were once not woke but they are now because the progs are determined. But all we get from the conservative side is naysaying, pessimism, lack of courage, no vision.

    Even giants started small.

    It can be like an Animal House of White Free Speech. So, no more wussy talk.
  92. Fryer is Harvard College’s superstar economist

    He does the kind of honest and thorough work that would get him a cum laude for his undergraduate honors thesis at a state school.

    But he’s no “superstar”, he’s an example of the absurd mismatch you get when an elite institution practices affirmative action. At least he doesn’t exploit his privilege (because privilege is what it is) to pump out Ibram X. Kendi type bilge.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @International Jew

    He did about the only actually valuable work in the field in my lifetime, in demonstrating that black kids need extra work, and when you give them the extra work, they can outperform whites, thus all race hustling Big Ideas are scams. This is also why he was attacked.

  93. @Twinkie
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I’ve worked with a number of competent black people. They are in that 10% or probably 5%. They don’t have many kids – one as an average, from a limited number that I know.
     
    You are not wrong here - someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don't remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall, and black women are not exceptions to those trends.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Almost Missouri

    someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don’t remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/dark-dysgenics/

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall

    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but “highly”? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE’s post, above.

    black women are not exceptions to those trends.

    No, they’re not: they’re one of the main drivers of those trends. The other driver is the lunatic import-the-third-world policy.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri


    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but “highly”? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE’s post, above.
     
    You are right - it was incorrect of me to phrase it as "highly."

    I discussed this previously - the fact that fertility decreases as income rises, but increases somewhat at the right end of the income distribution.

    Replies: @Alden

  94. Love your final point about Red State white boys.

    My main concern is the black brain drain out of Africa.
    A few years ago I did an expensive course on data analysis in London. All the instructors were hugely able African first generation immigrants (+ one Indian lady) who had completed a very technical Maths or similar course in Africa then started or completed a post graduate degree in UK. The boss was incredibly smart in both his analysis of the Data Market and his sales pitch.
    Most UK newly hired doctors did not initially qualify here in UK.

    And at the same time we wonder why so many are willing to take the risk of crossing the Med on tiny boats and then the English channel on even tinier boats just to get out of Africa.

  95. @Reg Cæsar

    Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.
     
    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Roland, Roland, Roland
    Rawhide!
    Don't try to understand 'em
    Just rope, and throw, and brand 'em
    Soon we'll be living high and wide.

    Fryer didn't go to Choate, but to Lewisville High in the exploding northern suburbs of the Metroplex.


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Lewisville_High_School_logo.jpg


    This area is yellowing rapidly. Lewisville is 10% Asian, nearby Plano 24%. 68,000 whites moved into the county from 2010 to 2020, but their percentage sunk from 64% to 54%.

    Has Fryer been attending reunions?

    Replies: @Twinkie, @International Jew

    Yeah, but Harvard didn’t take Fryer out of high school. They let U Texas at Arlington (BA) and Penn State (PhD) vet him first.

    And in case you’re wondering, No, no white man with that kind of resume would ever end up on the Harvard economics faculty.

  96. @kb

    A half century ago, at the dawn of affirmative action, Harvard let in some male urban achievers from the deepest reaches of the ghetto. Unfortunate Incidents ensued involving the physical safety of other students.

    By the end of the 70s, prep schools had set up their affirmative action pipelines as well, so Harvard was happy to accept blacks who’d made it through Choate without any Unfortunate Incidents.

     

    Forgive my ignorance, but what incidents are being referred to? I'd be interested in reading about them.

    Replies: @winston smith, @Almost Missouri

    Maybe stuff like this:

    https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change

    Okay, that’s a different Ivy, but it was a big public spectacle. I think all the Ivies initially embraced the Great Racial Reconciliation they naïvely assumed was about to happen. Cornell’s efforts failed most spectacularly, but I think they all suffered a epidemic of Unfortunate Incidents, it’s just that most of the UIs were things that were easier to keep out of the public eye: rapes, assaults, threats, etc.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Almost Missouri

    Huey Newton had his people point the rifles down in Sacramento, in accordance with state law. Did New York's applicable laws differ from California's?

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Almost Missouri

    The New York Times headline from April 1969 didn't mince words.

    https://i.imgur.com/g0sYzpO.jpg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  97. @Alice in Wonderland
    @Twinkie

    I think the guileless (lol) white boys of Nebraska aren't turned down because they aren't applying to elite schools. Those guys want to go to places like Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, Ohio, etc. It's when AA keeps competent male students out of those schools that parents aka taxpayers get ticked off. Their kids could go to some private school, but those are extremely expensive. Residents want their kids to be able to get into their University of Texas or University of Michigan because they are good, but they are also way way cheaper than the private schools. This is why we have legislation that mandates the schools take the top x% of resident students. They also have automatic acceptance for resident students who meet certain minimum SAT/ACT score. requirements. White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

    My contemporaries in California, who attended places like Berkeley and UCLA, have found that their children (no less bright than they) can’t get into those places. They end up sending Junior to University of Arizona or Colorado, paying out of state tuition.

  98. Roland Fryer was pseudo-MeTooed for challenging shameless race hustlers who come from the suburbs and contribute nothing to either academia or black people, not because he actually did anything wrong. It wasn’t a legal proceeding, it was an academic tribunal court composed of the very competitors who hated him.

  99. @International Jew

    Fryer is Harvard College’s superstar economist
     
    He does the kind of honest and thorough work that would get him a cum laude for his undergraduate honors thesis at a state school.

    But he's no "superstar", he's an example of the absurd mismatch you get when an elite institution practices affirmative action. At least he doesn't exploit his privilege (because privilege is what it is) to pump out Ibram X. Kendi type bilge.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    He did about the only actually valuable work in the field in my lifetime, in demonstrating that black kids need extra work, and when you give them the extra work, they can outperform whites, thus all race hustling Big Ideas are scams. This is also why he was attacked.

  100. If robots can perform better than humans in most tasks, as the professor says, what would be the point of spending tens of thousands of dollars to go to university, if there would be no jobs at the end of it?

  101. @Almost Missouri
    @kb

    Maybe stuff like this:

    https://i.redd.it/xzoikw3ce4251.jpg

    https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change

    Okay, that's a different Ivy, but it was a big public spectacle. I think all the Ivies initially embraced the Great Racial Reconciliation they naïvely assumed was about to happen. Cornell's efforts failed most spectacularly, but I think they all suffered a epidemic of Unfortunate Incidents, it's just that most of the UIs were things that were easier to keep out of the public eye: rapes, assaults, threats, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @PiltdownMan

    Huey Newton had his people point the rifles down in Sacramento, in accordance with state law. Did New York’s applicable laws differ from California’s?

  102. @Alice in Wonderland
    @Twinkie

    I think the guileless (lol) white boys of Nebraska aren't turned down because they aren't applying to elite schools. Those guys want to go to places like Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, Ohio, etc. It's when AA keeps competent male students out of those schools that parents aka taxpayers get ticked off. Their kids could go to some private school, but those are extremely expensive. Residents want their kids to be able to get into their University of Texas or University of Michigan because they are good, but they are also way way cheaper than the private schools. This is why we have legislation that mandates the schools take the top x% of resident students. They also have automatic acceptance for resident students who meet certain minimum SAT/ACT score. requirements. White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

    White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    The legal team who brought Heller to the Supreme Court desperately wanted a black and/or female plaintiff, but were stuck with an old white male security guard. Their favored black lady, and several others, were turned away for lack of standing. They had never actually applied for a licence, and thus were never turned down. Dick Heller had.

  103. I know a couple of currently unemployed robots who would make fine admissions officers. Firm but fair.

    • LOL: TWS
  104. @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    Wouldn’t the best faculty eventually congregate whither they went, because they want the best students?
     
    Faculty members also crave the prestige of being affiliated with, well, prestigious institutions. Besides, university professors generally don't spend much time teaching undergraduates. They spend their time slave-driving their grad students and churning out peer-reviewed articles and, maybe, writing lucrative textbooks.

    I mean, why good could come from mingling with undergrads?

    https://youtu.be/hiMVx2C5_Wg

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I’m not sure which “tier” of New England universities Clark ranks in, but it certainly isn’t the top. Yet in two programs they could always compete with any of them– psychology and geography. When shopping around for graduate geography programs, I quickly wrote Clark off the list. Yale’s or Harvard’s would have been easier to get into.

    Clark managed to build prestige in selected departments. It was an early player in the superstar prof game. They lost Franz Boas in anthropology to Columbia, but managed to snag Ellen Churchill Semple from Chicago for geography. (The draw appears to have been tenure; it sure wasn’t money.) The physics department got Robert Goddard to teach rocketry– in his hometown.

    So a “lesser” institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Reg Cæsar


    So a “lesser” institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.
     
    The problem with this system is that it doesn't give the school or as you more accurately say department any continuity. As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves (he had TB, and there were Great Depression and WWII complexities) the department reverts to the mean.

    And I hate to be a snob, but while I heard of many colleges and universities in Massachusetts including its neighbor WPI while I spent a dozen years in and around MIT, I never heard of Clark until today (OK, I guess I forgot that detail in the Goddard biography I read when young in the 1970s)....

    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania's greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less, and at the other end see how the University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign cultivated its 1952 ORDVAC and "Illinois Automatic Computer" ILLIAC I beginnings into today, per USNWR the number five graduate program in computer science, which comports which what I've observed over the decades.

    The biggest well known thing that came out of the school is probably Wolfram Mathematica, which I'll note is another example in how schools can be greedy and lose geniuses, in this case Caltech. Caltech is in the third rank of CS schools (albeit the school is very small), per USNWR tied for eleventh place.

    This can have serious consequences for undergraduates. Schools and professors may or may not care a lot for undergraduate education, the top four CS ones very much do, and that ties in with research opportunities/cheap labor. If you attended Clark while Goddard was there you might have been able to worm your way into working with him (albeit he's a many times over special case including the TB). No school needs a formal program for that, although it obviously helps. See MIT's incentivizing that by not charging overhead on student wages when they work for money in summer and January.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

  105. @Alice in Wonderland
    @Twinkie

    I think the guileless (lol) white boys of Nebraska aren't turned down because they aren't applying to elite schools. Those guys want to go to places like Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, Ohio, etc. It's when AA keeps competent male students out of those schools that parents aka taxpayers get ticked off. Their kids could go to some private school, but those are extremely expensive. Residents want their kids to be able to get into their University of Texas or University of Michigan because they are good, but they are also way way cheaper than the private schools. This is why we have legislation that mandates the schools take the top x% of resident students. They also have automatic acceptance for resident students who meet certain minimum SAT/ACT score. requirements. White (and Asian) non-Jewish, non-wealthy smart boys in NYC are the ones being turned down because they actually apply to Ivy League schools.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

    Enforcing the Coming Affirmative Action Bans: A Modest Proposal.

    https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2022/10/27/enforcing-the-coming-affirmative-action-bans-a-modest-proposal/

    States could do this for their public schools. Hello, Ron DeSantis?

  106. @Anonymous
    @George Taylor

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    If so, why couldn't they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren't quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    The kind of university I'm talking about is one founded on strong bedrock of meritocracy without considerations of legacy and connections that always defined the Ivies.
    If conservatives are all about meritocracy and there are so many whites who are ignored by elite institutions, why don't conservatives create their own elite institution.

    Same with Hollywood. Why complain about Liberal Hollywood not making movies conservatives like. There are so many conservatives, and there are 50 states, but conservatives cannot create a single viable movie industry of their own?

    Sad.

    Replies: @Bumpkin, @Legba, @George Taylor

    You make a good point. I always find it strange when the Right obsesses over outdated institutions like universities and broadcast media or outdated tech like twitter, when a whole new world is being born online.

  107. Steve, you are on FIRE today!!!

  108. @Steve Sailer
    @Recently Based

    Harvard didn't get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won't tell you what it knows, which I'm betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Recently Based, @William Badwhite, @That Would Be Telling

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @William Badwhite


    Indeed…
     
    Yale only got $250 million from the Johnsons. Harvard got $350 million from the Hong Kong Chans. Harvard wins again!
  109. @Almost Missouri
    @kb

    Maybe stuff like this:

    https://i.redd.it/xzoikw3ce4251.jpg

    https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change

    Okay, that's a different Ivy, but it was a big public spectacle. I think all the Ivies initially embraced the Great Racial Reconciliation they naïvely assumed was about to happen. Cornell's efforts failed most spectacularly, but I think they all suffered a epidemic of Unfortunate Incidents, it's just that most of the UIs were things that were easier to keep out of the public eye: rapes, assaults, threats, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @PiltdownMan

    The New York Times headline from April 1969 didn’t mince words.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @PiltdownMan

    Thanks. As winston smith pointed out, similar things happened at other elite-ish universities. Specifically, the year before, there was a black student takeover at fellow Ivy, Columbia, but it didn't generate the bandolier-and-long-gun black militant images.

    It took a thousand NYC cops to end Columbia's Unfortunate Incident. Cornell ended up negotiating against their better armed insurrectionists despite National Guard help.

    A year separated the Columbia UI from the Cornell UI. I imagine that was the interval that it took for the ideology, methods, and materiel to spread from NYC to upstate. As we saw with the George Floyd Riots in 2020, nowadays these insurrectionist programs can mass-replicate almost instantly with social media.

  110. @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Each new generation doesn’t regress all the way to the mean of their population’s average, but to approximately the average between their parent’s IQs and the population average.
     
    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one's ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Bill Jones

    I was under the impression that the regression, as such, is toward the average of one’s ancestors rather than the average between the parents and the larger (racial) population average.

    I agree. Regression of The Talented Tenth toward the mean of the White/Asian population would be an increase in IQ.

  111. @Jon
    @Twinkie


    I know the answer: let only the top 10% blacks breed and have children
     
    The elites are pushing a similar idea - improve the genetics of blacks by breeding them with whites.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    But they’re doing it backwards.

    Instead of taking the abundant sperm from the high-performing lower-breeding population and crossing it to the scarcer eggs of the lower-performing higher-breeding population, they are taking the abundant sperm of the lower-performing higher-breeding population and crossing it to the scarce eggs of higher-performing lower-breeding population.

    smdh

    IOW if the elites really want to improve genetics, they should be concubining blackish women to whitish men. Instead they are doing the opposite and will get the opposite result.

    Elites: stupid or evil?

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Almost Missouri

    "Elites: stupid or evil?"

    Both. Which is why their time is up.

  112. @Anonymous
    @George Taylor

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    If so, why couldn't they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren't quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    The kind of university I'm talking about is one founded on strong bedrock of meritocracy without considerations of legacy and connections that always defined the Ivies.
    If conservatives are all about meritocracy and there are so many whites who are ignored by elite institutions, why don't conservatives create their own elite institution.

    Same with Hollywood. Why complain about Liberal Hollywood not making movies conservatives like. There are so many conservatives, and there are 50 states, but conservatives cannot create a single viable movie industry of their own?

    Sad.

    Replies: @Bumpkin, @Legba, @George Taylor

    How many viable film industries do we have now?

  113. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Adam Smith

    It's not a Fibonacci pi [sic], I don't think. Is that a Communist-style division - from each according to his dough, to each according to his kneeds?

    I'll just take care of this myself:

    • Groan: Achmed E. Newman

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    Nah. It’s not a Fibonacci Pi, a Marxist pizza or anything so clever.
    It’s simply what Mrs. Smith and I had for lunch yesterday.
    And it was delicious!

  114. @Batman
    @Anon



    Is it fair to assume that blacks descended from American slaves have the same genetic profile as blacks who have immigrated to the United States from Africa in the past 30 years?

     

    Lol, no. Our native blacks are the descendants of the eighteenth century stone age spear chuckers who were unlucky enough or dumb enough to be enslaved by other stone age eighteenth century spear chuckers. The Nigerians coming to America today are the very smartest and best of a country of about 300 million people. Even though Nigeria today at the median is a functionally retarded nation, the 99.9999th percentile smartest and most resourceful Nigerians are pretty smart.

    Replies: @Anonymous Jew

    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.

    Also, if I recall, the children of Britain’s high achieving Black immigrants outscore the bottom of the White bell curve but not the top (unlike the Hindu and Orientals in Britain that do well top to bottom). Also, there’s no hiding the disproportionate amount of Blacks in Britain’s crime. But perhaps they’re more likely to be the children of Caribbean Blacks? (I’m an American, so if anyone has on the ground insights from the UK please feel free to correct me).

    • Replies: @res
    @Anonymous Jew


    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.
     
    I think this is an important question for both the Nigerians and South Asians. Both groups are highly selected as immigrants, but I don't know what population mean to expect for Igbos and Brahmins respectively.
    , @International Jew
    @Anonymous Jew

    Nigerians are thick on the ground in Houston. Find a recent list of national merit scholars (they're released by state, by city, by high school). Count the African-sounding names. I did that recently and found at most one such. Versus tons of Chinese and Hindu names.

    Yeah yeah, I've heard of the Igbos too. Supposedly the Jews of Africa. Ok, but that's like winning the intellectual Special Olympics.

  115. @PiltdownMan
    @Almost Missouri

    The New York Times headline from April 1969 didn't mince words.

    https://i.imgur.com/g0sYzpO.jpg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Thanks. As winston smith pointed out, similar things happened at other elite-ish universities. Specifically, the year before, there was a black student takeover at fellow Ivy, Columbia, but it didn’t generate the bandolier-and-long-gun black militant images.

    It took a thousand NYC cops to end Columbia’s Unfortunate Incident. Cornell ended up negotiating against their better armed insurrectionists despite National Guard help.

    A year separated the Columbia UI from the Cornell UI. I imagine that was the interval that it took for the ideology, methods, and materiel to spread from NYC to upstate. As we saw with the George Floyd Riots in 2020, nowadays these insurrectionist programs can mass-replicate almost instantly with social media.

  116. @Steve Sailer
    @Recently Based

    Harvard didn't get a $50 billion endowment by being soft-headed about whom to let in. Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won't tell you what it knows, which I'm betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Recently Based, @William Badwhite, @That Would Be Telling

    You’re overstating Harvard’s competence with money, at least for a period of time, maybe they’ve recovered. They got their endowment that high, and this increment without restrictions, by setting up a best of the best Wall Street style hedge firm to manage the endowment. And got crazy high returns.

    But part of that business model is paying its people Wall Street compensation, and that just wouldn’t do for the faculty and administrators getting paid much less. So those people, including the risk manager and his team were purged, while Harvard somehow expected their replacements would continue to deliver its outsized results. For example started to build a new campus from scratch in Allston on the other side of the river.

    Then the Great Recession hit. As the most notorious extreme, the replacements were so terribad they lost a cool billion dollars by simply not noticing and closing out a very bad investment. That new campus last time I checked was halted in progress, foundation concrete etc. poured and an eyesore.

    OK, now it’s got something, a 500,000+ square foot Science and Engineering Complex (SEC) which would comport with slumber_j’s comment that Harvard’s a lot more engineer-y than it used to be.

    Along with it competing with Stanford, which of course is a lot more like Harvard than MIT which is in easy walking distance of the main Harvard campus in Cambridge. Not sure if that’ll work, Harvard has been trying for more than a century to become a great engineering school. Although it is a great science and math school.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  117. @Twinkie
    @Twinkie

    Anybody have a more up-to-date or detailed source of data than this (with actual attributions/sources)?

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/07/0a/83070a5b560a31e61a4e77d7cac8b5e2.png

    Replies: @Alice in Wonderland, @res

    Looks like our host was the source of that. This 2018 piece
    https://unz.com/isteve/how-the-races-score-on-postgrad-admissions-tests/
    links the original 2009 VDARE article.
    https://vdare.com/articles/graduate-school-admissions-race-and-the-white-status-game

    Not more recent, but nonetheless worth a look.
    https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

    No time to dig deeper right now.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res


    Looks like our host was the source of that.
     
    ;)

    So, when our esteemed host asks loaded questions such as "Hey, if Asian cognitive ability is being accurately measured by the SAT, how come they do poorly on the LSAT and the MCAT?" he is not being uninformed, he is just dog whistling to his core readership ("Asians are just gaming the SAT!").
  118. @Almost Missouri
    @Jon

    But they're doing it backwards.

    Instead of taking the abundant sperm from the high-performing lower-breeding population and crossing it to the scarcer eggs of the lower-performing higher-breeding population, they are taking the abundant sperm of the lower-performing higher-breeding population and crossing it to the scarce eggs of higher-performing lower-breeding population.

    smdh

    IOW if the elites really want to improve genetics, they should be concubining blackish women to whitish men. Instead they are doing the opposite and will get the opposite result.

    Elites: stupid or evil?

    Replies: @BB753

    “Elites: stupid or evil?”

    Both. Which is why their time is up.

  119. @Patrick in SC
    Eradicating affirmative action is more stubborn than one might think, and one reason for this is that members of public enemy number one, white males, who manage to get into these elite schools, despite the disadvantages attendant with their race and sex, become amongst its fiercest defenders.

    Why is that?

    1) Makes their Ivy league degree even more impressive. If you're a white guy who can get into these places, you must be extra special (not just special like the losers who don't get in and bitch about AA, like the plaintiff in the Bakke case).

    2) Once admitted, you're competing with a bunch of less qualified, affirmative action cases. What's not to like?

    3) Why rock the boat and be labeled "racist", even if you're, you know, doing what's right.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

    Eradicating affirmative action is more stubborn than one might think, and one reason for this is that members of public enemy number one, white males, who manage to get into these elite schools, despite the disadvantages attendant with their race and sex, become amongst its fiercest defenders.

    Why is that?

    […]

    2) Once admitted, you’re competing with a bunch of less qualified, affirmative action cases. What’s not to like?

    That you’re in a minefield, where the mines are constantly changing their locations, effects and trigger conditions? And those AA cases will be intensely envious of your very real superiority?

    Note this shouldn’t apply to Harvard which draws and can accept the best in the US and the world. And perhaps Harvard alone, not counting Caltech and MIT with their tough core math and science curriculum that for example all but eliminates the issue of legacy admits. See Thomas Sowell’s writings on the cascading AA admission scam which he first noticed while teaching at Cornell. Below the level of Harvard, Caltech, MIT and I’m not sure where else, school goose their admissions statistics with AA students who can’t do the work. But could at a lower level school, and that one too is admitting AA students who can’t do the work.

    Back to the big white man on campus: even if you’re a true believer, you’ve got a huge target painted on your back. Although maybe it’s not so different at many, many state schools and less elite private ones which are also very very pozzed, and things can get quite nasty at mid-tier schools which are envious of the elite ones. And at those such a person would also stand out even more compared to the white men and women attending….

  120. @Anonymous Jew
    @Batman

    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.

    Also, if I recall, the children of Britain’s high achieving Black immigrants outscore the bottom of the White bell curve but not the top (unlike the Hindu and Orientals in Britain that do well top to bottom). Also, there’s no hiding the disproportionate amount of Blacks in Britain’s crime. But perhaps they’re more likely to be the children of Caribbean Blacks? (I’m an American, so if anyone has on the ground insights from the UK please feel free to correct me).

    Replies: @res, @International Jew

    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.

    I think this is an important question for both the Nigerians and South Asians. Both groups are highly selected as immigrants, but I don’t know what population mean to expect for Igbos and Brahmins respectively.

  121. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie

    I'm not sure which "tier" of New England universities Clark ranks in, but it certainly isn't the top. Yet in two programs they could always compete with any of them-- psychology and geography. When shopping around for graduate geography programs, I quickly wrote Clark off the list. Yale's or Harvard's would have been easier to get into.

    Clark managed to build prestige in selected departments. It was an early player in the superstar prof game. They lost Franz Boas in anthropology to Columbia, but managed to snag Ellen Churchill Semple from Chicago for geography. (The draw appears to have been tenure; it sure wasn't money.) The physics department got Robert Goddard to teach rocketry-- in his hometown.

    So a "lesser" institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

    So a “lesser” institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.

    The problem with this system is that it doesn’t give the school or as you more accurately say department any continuity. As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves (he had TB, and there were Great Depression and WWII complexities) the department reverts to the mean.

    And I hate to be a snob, but while I heard of many colleges and universities in Massachusetts including its neighbor WPI while I spent a dozen years in and around MIT, I never heard of Clark until today (OK, I guess I forgot that detail in the Goddard biography I read when young in the 1970s)….

    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania’s greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less, and at the other end see how the University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign cultivated its 1952 ORDVAC and “Illinois Automatic Computer” ILLIAC I beginnings into today, per USNWR the number five graduate program in computer science, which comports which what I’ve observed over the decades.

    The biggest well known thing that came out of the school is probably Wolfram Mathematica, which I’ll note is another example in how schools can be greedy and lose geniuses, in this case Caltech. Caltech is in the third rank of CS schools (albeit the school is very small), per USNWR tied for eleventh place.

    This can have serious consequences for undergraduates. Schools and professors may or may not care a lot for undergraduate education, the top four CS ones very much do, and that ties in with research opportunities/cheap labor. If you attended Clark while Goddard was there you might have been able to worm your way into working with him (albeit he’s a many times over special case including the TB). No school needs a formal program for that, although it obviously helps. See MIT’s incentivizing that by not charging overhead on student wages when they work for money in summer and January.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @That Would Be Telling


    As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves... the department reverts to the mean.
     
    That may have been true of the physics department, where rocketry was an entertaining diversion with a hometown hero, but not for geography. Ellen Churchill Semple died in 1932, yet fifty years later Clark still ranked at the top of that field. Supposedly the same is true of their psychology department, but I haven't looked into that. (I'm allergic to psychology.)

    They knew how to stay on their game.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @That Would Be Telling


    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania’s greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less...
     
    How did this happen?

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

  122. Anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lhhfdsdrfgf
    @Anonymous

    It probably wouldn’t be worth it, and it would eventually become Woke. Those boys are better off getting community college/tech school/real world training to make money and build families and power.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    It probably wouldn’t be worth it, and it would eventually become Woke.

    Universities became woke cuz of lack of free speech and administration.

    What you do is found a university with a pro-white administration that is committed to free speech.
    It doesn’t have to be explicitly white or only white. Just a matter of SWPL2, which is Stuff White Patriots Like.

    Total free speech alone will keep most progs, blacks, and others away. They want safe spaces, whereas this will be a frontier education. Frontier in the freedom of thought and discussion.
    And no hypocrisy. Most ‘conservative’ institutions bitch about lack of free speech in woke colleges but are utterly silent about anti-BDS laws and silencing of critics of Israel. This college will allow true free speech for all.

    Also, play classic music at regular intervals around campus, and that alone will make most blacks not apply.

    Erect statues of men like Robert E. Lee(as well as Abe Lincoln for balance).
    And this college will celebrate not homos and blacks and such stuff but Eurocentric themes and events. Again, all are welcome, but most progs and non-whites will not come.

    Now, running a top notch science and medical institution is very expensive, so this college can focus on arts, culture, humanities, ideas, and etc. You don’t need expensive labs to do those. And there can be training centers for white patriots in film-making, music, and other creative endeavors.

    Universities were once not woke but they are now because the progs are determined. But all we get from the conservative side is naysaying, pessimism, lack of courage, no vision.

    Even giants started small.

    It can be like an Animal House of White Free Speech. So, no more wussy talk.

  123. @That Would Be Telling
    @Reg Cæsar


    So a “lesser” institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.
     
    The problem with this system is that it doesn't give the school or as you more accurately say department any continuity. As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves (he had TB, and there were Great Depression and WWII complexities) the department reverts to the mean.

    And I hate to be a snob, but while I heard of many colleges and universities in Massachusetts including its neighbor WPI while I spent a dozen years in and around MIT, I never heard of Clark until today (OK, I guess I forgot that detail in the Goddard biography I read when young in the 1970s)....

    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania's greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less, and at the other end see how the University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign cultivated its 1952 ORDVAC and "Illinois Automatic Computer" ILLIAC I beginnings into today, per USNWR the number five graduate program in computer science, which comports which what I've observed over the decades.

    The biggest well known thing that came out of the school is probably Wolfram Mathematica, which I'll note is another example in how schools can be greedy and lose geniuses, in this case Caltech. Caltech is in the third rank of CS schools (albeit the school is very small), per USNWR tied for eleventh place.

    This can have serious consequences for undergraduates. Schools and professors may or may not care a lot for undergraduate education, the top four CS ones very much do, and that ties in with research opportunities/cheap labor. If you attended Clark while Goddard was there you might have been able to worm your way into working with him (albeit he's a many times over special case including the TB). No school needs a formal program for that, although it obviously helps. See MIT's incentivizing that by not charging overhead on student wages when they work for money in summer and January.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

    As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves… the department reverts to the mean.

    That may have been true of the physics department, where rocketry was an entertaining diversion with a hometown hero, but not for geography. Ellen Churchill Semple died in 1932, yet fifty years later Clark still ranked at the top of that field. Supposedly the same is true of their psychology department, but I haven’t looked into that. (I’m allergic to psychology.)

    They knew how to stay on their game.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses. When I was in high school, way back, my teachers were not rocket scientists, but they did not need to be. They were extremely good at teaching the two-eyes-one-nose things. They were great. I would extend this argument to undergraduate teaching. So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers, my two cents worth is to endorse the two-eyes-one-nose teachers. (Conscientious and demanding, of course.). Before you assume, well SafeNow, that’s probably because you were an educational doofus. But I wasn’t. I was certainly a doofus about many things, but rank in class was not one of them.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

  124. @Twinkie
    @Steve Sailer


    Harvard knows exactly which kind of applicants are most likely to write Harvard a 7 figure check some day. But Harvard won’t tell you what it knows, which I’m betting is basically Haven Monahan: white male legacy fraternity jock Republican.
     
    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings

    Since you mentioned it, I took a quick look at what Li Ka-shing, reputedly Hong Kong’s richest man, and a savvy investor who sold his Chinese assets long before* the current ructions, has done, in philanthropic terms. It appears he donated $120m to set up a medical school in Hong Kong.

    https://www.lihs.cuhk.edu.hk/en-us/introduction/thedonor.aspx

    And he donated ~$1.25b to set up a new university in China:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3016416/hong-kong-tycoon-li-ka-shings-influence-threatened-shantou

    This isn’t apparently unique. Wealthy Chinese tycoons have often been big backers of charitable initiatives. The problem is that the Chinese state fears their influence, and for good reason. The First Emperor took power as the result of the efforts of a wealthy sponsor and wheeler dealer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BC_Buwei

    The Han dynasty was founded by an illiterate peasant backed by a wealthy father-in-law who took a shine to him based on his natural charisma, and decided to marry his daughter to the man. The narrative reads like Horatio Alger, albeit with oceans of blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Gaozu_of_Han#Birth_and_early_life

    The merchant princes of the West undid its absolute monarchies, either defanging them or abolishing them outright. Pure power politics, not ideological dogma, is at the root of Xi Jinping’s quest to level out Chinese society – wealthy tycoons might back his enemies and undo his reign.

    An interesting footnote – in medieval China, a wealthy merchant whose business had been adversely impacted by royal impositions decided to carve a fief out for himself. He had previously been generous with his wealth, and quickly attracted a significant following. While his efforts came to naught, he achieved a kind of immortality in the Chinese classic novel The Water Margin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_La

    * Li took considerable flak from Xi Jinping’s minions for his now obviously prescient move:

    https://www.thechinastory.org/yearbooks/yearbook-2015/forum-the-well-%E4%BA%95/li-ka-shing-moves-investments-out-of-china/

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Johann Ricke

    Even before the $350 mil Chan donation to Harvard, the Hong Kong Chinese were massive givers to American schools: https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-tops-list-of-donors-to-u-s-schools-1411401637

    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AI-CK940A_HKGIV_9U_20140922113612.jpg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  125. @Anonymous
    @Wilkey

    You do realize that the new elite university you say whites should start would not be able to exclude non-whites?

    We're not talking of excluding nonwhites. We are talking of giving excluded whites(by Ivies) a fair chance based on merit and aptitude. That's it. It would be open to all as a policy.

    It would also be impractical, as it would be blackballed by pretty much every globalist corporation on the planet.

    That is pussy-ass talk: 'We can't do it because globalist corpies will diss us.' Well, boo hoo.

    So what? The American Revolution got the republic excluded and targeted by the British Empire. But, the Founders forged on anyway. Mormons were ridiculed and persecuted as a bunch of weirdo pervs, but they carried on despite all obstacles. Amish are growing against the odds. At one time, the idea of creating Israel was a pipe dream. But it happened.
    They all happened against adversity because of determination, will, and lots of guile too.
    But all you deliver is pussy-ass talk. Oh, the globo-corpies won't allow it, so I pee in my pants.

    The closest thing whites could get is if said university happened to be a religiously affiliated university that took its religious mission seriously

    Again, we are talking of a whites only college. We are talking of a college with fair admission policy. If Ron Unz is correct, smart whites are the most discriminated by the elite colleges. Worse, this anti-white policy seems to be spreading in state universities too.

    Then, conservatives should build their own elite university based on merit. Now, how do they ensure it won't be taken over by woke morons? The founding principles must be absolute free speech, and that will keep the woke away cuz they are deathly afraid of free speech. They simply will not apply because free speech is to the woke what oxygen is to bacteria. It kills em.

    Also, to make more attractive to whites and less attractive to non-whites, build it in some place where most nonwhites don't want to go.... like Wyoming, Montana, or some such place. White folks like nature and wilderness more than other races. Most nonwhites will not want to go all the way there to attend school. Another way to keep the woke pests away. Build monuments to great white figures like Beethoven, Shakespeare, and John Wayne.

    Replies: @Francis Miville

    Make either Greek and Latin, either German and Russian obligatory with courses given using it : declension-based languages are especially displeasing to POC’s and also to ((())) even when they master them. Baden-Powell-style life in contact with raw nature also pisses off POC and ((())) so impose kind of Outward-Bound stages to all students. Impose serious courses of bird-watching and wild animal care.

  126. @Anonymous
    @George Taylor

    They did. Virtually all Ivy Leagues schools and those colleges with any pedigree at all, were started by Christian White men.

    If so, why couldn't they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren't quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    The kind of university I'm talking about is one founded on strong bedrock of meritocracy without considerations of legacy and connections that always defined the Ivies.
    If conservatives are all about meritocracy and there are so many whites who are ignored by elite institutions, why don't conservatives create their own elite institution.

    Same with Hollywood. Why complain about Liberal Hollywood not making movies conservatives like. There are so many conservatives, and there are 50 states, but conservatives cannot create a single viable movie industry of their own?

    Sad.

    Replies: @Bumpkin, @Legba, @George Taylor

    If so, why couldn’t they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren’t quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.

    “Pournelle’s iron law of bureaucracy”

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @George Taylor

    You see this in internet discussion forums too. A forum about (say) origami will be started by origami enthusiasts, but it will eventually end up in control of people whose main interest is waging internet feuds. Any interest in paper folding will be incidental.

  127. @Reg Cæsar
    @That Would Be Telling


    As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves... the department reverts to the mean.
     
    That may have been true of the physics department, where rocketry was an entertaining diversion with a hometown hero, but not for geography. Ellen Churchill Semple died in 1932, yet fifty years later Clark still ranked at the top of that field. Supposedly the same is true of their psychology department, but I haven't looked into that. (I'm allergic to psychology.)

    They knew how to stay on their game.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses. When I was in high school, way back, my teachers were not rocket scientists, but they did not need to be. They were extremely good at teaching the two-eyes-one-nose things. They were great. I would extend this argument to undergraduate teaching. So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers, my two cents worth is to endorse the two-eyes-one-nose teachers. (Conscientious and demanding, of course.). Before you assume, well SafeNow, that’s probably because you were an educational doofus. But I wasn’t. I was certainly a doofus about many things, but rank in class was not one of them.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @SafeNow


    So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers....
     
    Didn't know we were having a debate about undergraduate teaching, although that's always an interesting question.

    Here you've got multiple dimensions, like how well established is field, how broad is it, and how much does the institution care about teaching? So computer science is particularly problematic in that no one including the top four schools in the world agree on how it should be taught. Two extremes are CMU and MIT, the first coming out of its math department, the other still a part of its EECS department college.

    CMU teaches hard core CS, including down to the machine level, assembly and C, and up to functional programming for all students. MIT after the dot.com bust terrified it and allowed certain actors more power became a Python and Javaschool that made sure you could create gadgets, although its required curriculum has changed since then and I haven't analyzed it.

    ABET requires some standard stuff, like a discrete math course after the standard calculus, but the details in how other courses are taught vary. And as previously mentioned, it believes design per se can be taught and MIT's EECS department disagrees, but famously not the MechE one. (And Harvard's wasn't an ABET program last time I checked....)

    Whoever (I forget) accredits chemistry and physics programs has a fixed set of required subjects and labs, it's standard, agreed upon and makes lots of sense. Biology is I expect harder for that because it's so big, there's also issues like doctor and EE professor Jerry Lettvin complaining circa 1980 about MIT's biology department not doing anything above the level of the cell which had more than a grain of truth.

    For example, what about zoology and botany?? Which particular things do you focus on at the low level? There's way too much to teach it all to undergraduates, or for one person to learn it all even given a lifetime of study (especially since we're still discovering so much).

    At one time I examined Caltech's core required curriculum its biology class was on HIV/AIDS. That's obviously partly political, but they claimed with merit it covered such a swath of subjects it was a good single required course. I note you get everything from weird virus hijinks and how they pervert normal mechanisms from DNA to the adaptive immune system which you have to also learn (the normal way).

    Then we get to your focus I think, how good is the instruction. Infamously many schools are really bad at this, the cliche being an unmotivated grad student, nowadays very likely foreign with poor English skills. I've also seen middle and lower tier schools cargo cult subjects beyond bad instructors, but the lower tier of community colleges and one step above them are often a better bet because the professors are there to teach, are not embittered because they didn't get into a top program to do their research. Those schools regularly sent grad students to MIT.

    I don't know how what I'm told is the increasingly common associate teacher model works in practice across all schools, I know some are great, especially if otherwise retired, or dedicated to a field like a professional author, but it's obviously focused on freeing up money for administrator salaries and reducing the power of tenured and tenure track professors. And not a happy life for a young academic who knows he's being used.

    Some schools are overloaded in majors for one reason or another and may have to weed out a lot of students attempting it, see in a different way our previous discussions of organic chemistry as an invaluable pre-med weed out course. So I wonder how enthusiastic the teachers of those are, but I've generally observed as long as there's a core of students in a class who get it, love it, do well in it the teachers are happy enough. And when a teacher who cares fails hard that's bad all around ... which is not what happened at NYU.

    Here we should also bring in the affirmative action (AA) scam, it's going to be a bad scene in the schools below Harvard and whichever that admit people who can't do the work. I don't know where that line is, just know Caltech, Harvard and MIT don't have that problem and Thomas Sowell reported Cornell had it some time ago.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Alden

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses.
     
    Arnold Schoenberg's university composition texts are surprisingly conservative. He didn't want you messing around with the 12-tone stuff until you had the traditional methods down cold.
  128. @Anonymous
    Because you’d end up letting in more white boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    If there's so much untapped white talent, why don't white people of conservative bent create an elite university of their own?

    Replies: @George Taylor, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @anon, @Anon, @Barnard, @Wilkey, @Lhhfdsdrfgf, @Marquis

    There are several. I’m in the Midwest, but can name a few. Chicago puts out better students than Harvard, imo. At least in my industry. Hillsdale, Wabash, etc… in liberal arts. Hanover is easily one of the best engineering schools in the country.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Marquis

    Harvard's undergraduate output is weird and probably unpredictable. It doesn't demand a great deal from its students, in the late 1980s a strong in math although not at the Math 55 level friend was appalled that it only required students to prove they could do algebra.

    BUT in many fields you can get a world class education if you want. It says something there's only one famous math course in the whole US and it's at Harvard, one which taught Bill Gates some humility and in which Richard Stallman (RMS) excelled, was a very special part of his life and tells us something about his intellect.

    Of course this will depend on your field. I'd guess not humanities today due to wokeness, but it's very strong in science and math. And historically weak in engineering, and iffy for computer science. But looking now it might be a lot stronger, certainly a lot of students as of late and now are majoring in it, around four hundred which would be more than MIT ever did in total and per capita, it's also much heavier in math than the mostly computer science 6-3 MIT major). This sounds like a major change from the 1980s and I assume for a while after.

    Although we're told, and can see it in that huge Allston campus building the university is trying again to address its engineering weakness as it has since a MIT chemistry professor became its president and starting turning it into a Great University.

    Chicago University I don't know much about but most everything I've heard about it is good, at least compared to its competition, and I'm pretty sure it has standards unlike Harvard. Hillsdale at least in theory tries to address Robert Conquest's Second Law of Politics so we can hope its humanities courses and majors are not woke.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alden

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Marquis

    Wabash, Morehouse, and Hampden Sydney are still all-male, the only ones left in the country. Four-year, anyway. There is at least one two-year school, too. How many all-female colleges are left?

    But don't confuse "all-male" with "conservative".

  129. @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses. When I was in high school, way back, my teachers were not rocket scientists, but they did not need to be. They were extremely good at teaching the two-eyes-one-nose things. They were great. I would extend this argument to undergraduate teaching. So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers, my two cents worth is to endorse the two-eyes-one-nose teachers. (Conscientious and demanding, of course.). Before you assume, well SafeNow, that’s probably because you were an educational doofus. But I wasn’t. I was certainly a doofus about many things, but rank in class was not one of them.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

    So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers….

    Didn’t know we were having a debate about undergraduate teaching, although that’s always an interesting question.

    Here you’ve got multiple dimensions, like how well established is field, how broad is it, and how much does the institution care about teaching? So computer science is particularly problematic in that no one including the top four schools in the world agree on how it should be taught. Two extremes are CMU and MIT, the first coming out of its math department, the other still a part of its EECS department college.

    CMU teaches hard core CS, including down to the machine level, assembly and C, and up to functional programming for all students. MIT after the dot.com bust terrified it and allowed certain actors more power became a Python and Javaschool that made sure you could create gadgets, although its required curriculum has changed since then and I haven’t analyzed it.

    ABET requires some standard stuff, like a discrete math course after the standard calculus, but the details in how other courses are taught vary. And as previously mentioned, it believes design per se can be taught and MIT’s EECS department disagrees, but famously not the MechE one. (And Harvard’s wasn’t an ABET program last time I checked….)

    Whoever (I forget) accredits chemistry and physics programs has a fixed set of required subjects and labs, it’s standard, agreed upon and makes lots of sense. Biology is I expect harder for that because it’s so big, there’s also issues like doctor and EE professor Jerry Lettvin complaining circa 1980 about MIT’s biology department not doing anything above the level of the cell which had more than a grain of truth.

    For example, what about zoology and botany?? Which particular things do you focus on at the low level? There’s way too much to teach it all to undergraduates, or for one person to learn it all even given a lifetime of study (especially since we’re still discovering so much).

    At one time I examined Caltech’s core required curriculum its biology class was on HIV/AIDS. That’s obviously partly political, but they claimed with merit it covered such a swath of subjects it was a good single required course. I note you get everything from weird virus hijinks and how they pervert normal mechanisms from DNA to the adaptive immune system which you have to also learn (the normal way).

    Then we get to your focus I think, how good is the instruction. Infamously many schools are really bad at this, the cliche being an unmotivated grad student, nowadays very likely foreign with poor English skills. I’ve also seen middle and lower tier schools cargo cult subjects beyond bad instructors, but the lower tier of community colleges and one step above them are often a better bet because the professors are there to teach, are not embittered because they didn’t get into a top program to do their research. Those schools regularly sent grad students to MIT.

    I don’t know how what I’m told is the increasingly common associate teacher model works in practice across all schools, I know some are great, especially if otherwise retired, or dedicated to a field like a professional author, but it’s obviously focused on freeing up money for administrator salaries and reducing the power of tenured and tenure track professors. And not a happy life for a young academic who knows he’s being used.

    Some schools are overloaded in majors for one reason or another and may have to weed out a lot of students attempting it, see in a different way our previous discussions of organic chemistry as an invaluable pre-med weed out course. So I wonder how enthusiastic the teachers of those are, but I’ve generally observed as long as there’s a core of students in a class who get it, love it, do well in it the teachers are happy enough. And when a teacher who cares fails hard that’s bad all around … which is not what happened at NYU.

    Here we should also bring in the affirmative action (AA) scam, it’s going to be a bad scene in the schools below Harvard and whichever that admit people who can’t do the work. I don’t know where that line is, just know Caltech, Harvard and MIT don’t have that problem and Thomas Sowell reported Cornell had it some time ago.

    • Thanks: SafeNow, BosTex
    • Replies: @BosTex
    @That Would Be Telling

    Thanks Telling. Always enjoy your comments.

    , @Alden
    @That Would Be Telling

    I’m really really sorry to be rude. But it’s 2022.

    These discussions have been going on for more than 60 years. March 6, 1961 actually. When race traitor President Kennedy issued the affirmative action executive order 10925 for federal contracting and employment.


    Way back in the early 1980s, there were many many foreign Asian Indian African Arab etc teachers instructors teaching assistants even entry level professors at the flagship University of Illinois Champaign Urbana. Their English was so bad they could not be understood by students Parents and students filed a lawsuit.

    How can a teacher teach when they can’t speak the language? The lawsuit was filed by parents and students in engineering science and math. The lawsuit pointed out that understandable English was especially important in math science engineering etc. Languages literature history archeology psychology sociology the verbal courses don’t need understandable teachers . Students could just read the books.

    But engineering math and science students need teachers who can speak the language of the students.

    The plaintiffs the students lost the case. They appealed of course. I never heard what how it came out.

    That’s affirmative action. Even if a non White can’t speak English he deserves to teach at a top 25 engineering school because he’s non White.

    Of course all non English speaking foreign students and teachers are required to pass the TOEFL test of reading writing understanding and speaking English. But test scores from the most corrupt countries on earth are not reliable.

    And even when it’s obvious they can’t read speak or understand English; can’t get rid of them That would be racist.

    Even if one anti affirmative action case is won in the courts. The universities government and employers will continue and increase discrimination against Whites.

    It’s 2022 almost 2023. And America is a totalitarian country. Just look at what the dictators did about covid hoax. Or TSA. Treated like cattle. Pawed and mauled Worse than those WW2 spy movies. Show us your papers. Frogs on a hundred year old golf course are slightly different from the frogs in the creek 5 miles away.? EPA seizes and closes the golf course. To protect the frogs who are no different from any other frogs.

    These discussions have gone on for 61 years. Just one result NWNA. No Whites Need Apply.

  130. @Alden
    @SafeNow

    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. The officer selection boards are only interested in race diversity and sex. 2022 2022, almost 2023. I’m old too. But I know what year it is.

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. I’m old too. But I know what year it is…
    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.

    You raise a good point but there’s this. I have a few times posted a vintage photo of a late-50s suburban street, children at play, a mother sitting on her front lawn with a Collie (not a Pit Bull.) Young people today have no idea of what living in those times was like. Old timers have a responsibility to pass along a sense of what was. Then, if young people decide no thanks, because they prefer the coarsening of society and culture, then well, I tried. And I will remain “behind the times” in my personal life. Music, movies, poetry, habits of speech, patterns of thought, and so on.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @SafeNow

    Our four middle aged children have that lifestyle complete with kids although the dogs are not collies. Out 8 grandchildren are growing up in that life style. Grandparents parents and grandkids even the same schools and school uniforms. One son wife and kids are living in the city in the house he grew up in. Same school too. It was a nice way to grow up and still is.

    My point has nothing to do with the good old days.

    My point is that the colleges can and will change their admissions policies to exclude Whiles and Asians in favor of blacks and Hispanics. Just as every job description and requirement in America has been changed to exclude Whites.

    Here’s an example. Before Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Webster firemen had to be hug and strong men able to lift and carry hoses and equipment weighing more than 100 pounds while rushing around. After Griggs and Kaiser cases fire departments were forced to hire tiny little men and even tinier little 5 ft 100 pound Asian women. And did.

    So many tiny midget Asian women swarmed into SFPD that SFPD had to create chokes for the pedals and special cushions for the teeny tiny Asian women. The chokes were wood and strapped unto the pedals so their short little legs could reach the pedals. A thing that was a sort of child car seat was invented so the teeny tiny little ladies could squiggle close enough to the steering wheel to hold it.

    All I care about is affirmative action against Whites by any and all non Whites. Black on White crime and the progress of the genocide against Whites.

  131. If Satanic Supremes find that Harvard discriminated against high SAT Asians in favor of low IQ non Asians absolutely nothing will happen. Which was the result of every anti affirmative action court decision and every successful anti affirmative action referendum.

    Because every Ivy League school and Harvard plus top 5 Stanford plus the mammoth university of California and California State University no longer request SATs. Or will discriminate in anyway against those who don’t submit SAT ACT scores. The huge Cal State and UC systems have abolished SATs entirely. And many state systems will follow.

    Most colleges suspended SATs for fall 2020, 2021, and 2022 admissions. Allegedly because of covid hoax. Actually to ease away from SAT requirements a year at a time until SAT requirements ended completely..

    Brown, Dartmouth, Yale Columbia UPenn Stanford will not use SAT scores for the fall of 2023 class. And will consider extending the moratorium on SAT requirements.

    Cornell has already extended the SAT moratorium to the fall class of 2024. Harvard to 2026.

    If any of the endless articles about the Harvard admissions case had bothered to include. Plaintiffs vs Harvard Admissions, date, state in which case was filed, which county or state judicial district and most important the case number the clerk stamped in the box top of the first page, I might have read the filing. And the cause of action and the declaration of wrongs by the plaintiffs. And the endless pages of evidence stating and proving what defendant/ respondent did to wrong plaintiffs

    I usually google these court cases journalists and others write about without even stating plaintiffs and defendant. Let alone other information so readers can read the case. And learn what’s really happening instead of opinions.

    It’s easy enough to find and read a case using google. But it means looking at endless sites blathering about the case till a legal website comes up with case name year and Case number. So it can be read.

    Since the writers on the UNZ website haven’t bothered to even state the name of the case, let alone what year state judicial district and case number, I won’t waste any time looking for it so I can read the cause of action evidence and what findings are requested if judge or jury.

    As I understand it, the plaintiffs, whoever they are claim that Harvard:

    1 One, uses SAT scores as one, just one of the many criteria for admissions.

    2 Harvard has a long history of admitting non Asians who have substantially lower SAT scores than non Asians.

    3 The above facts prove that Harvard discriminated against Asians.

    Therefore plaintiffs request that the court finds that Harvard discriminated against Asians in violation of the LOL 14th amendment and X Y Z anti discrimination laws

    And plaintiffs request that the court order Harvard to cease discriminating against Asians.

    That’s probably the asian plaintiffs lawsuit against Harvard. It’s the standard form But since the genius of UNZ. com and no other right wing conservative website newsletter or writers have ever bothered to tell their readers the name court and case number of the case. Well, I’m not going to spend any time looking for the actual case so I can read it.

    What actually, really happened was as soon as the universities and colleges all over America heard the case was being prepared; they rushed to eliminate the only objective criteria left in college admissions the SAT ACT requirement.

    I could google Harvard admissions case. But since not one conservative author anywhere has bothered to inform the reader of the name court and case number of the case I sure won’t.

    Writing about legal cases without noting the name court and case number is like advertising to sell a house without mentioning city, price or size.

    The anti White universities ended the SAT submission requirement. Plaintiff’s attorney will argue SAT scores. Harvard’s attorneys will argue Harvard doesn’t use SAT scores. Neither do any other Ivy League schools and some state university system. Request the case be dismissed.

  132. @SafeNow
    @Alden


    Again, and again and again it’s 2022. I’m old too. But I know what year it is…
    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ 60 years behind the times.
     
    You raise a good point but there’s this. I have a few times posted a vintage photo of a late-50s suburban street, children at play, a mother sitting on her front lawn with a Collie (not a Pit Bull.) Young people today have no idea of what living in those times was like. Old timers have a responsibility to pass along a sense of what was. Then, if young people decide no thanks, because they prefer the coarsening of society and culture, then well, I tried. And I will remain “behind the times” in my personal life. Music, movies, poetry, habits of speech, patterns of thought, and so on.

    Replies: @Alden

    Our four middle aged children have that lifestyle complete with kids although the dogs are not collies. Out 8 grandchildren are growing up in that life style. Grandparents parents and grandkids even the same schools and school uniforms. One son wife and kids are living in the city in the house he grew up in. Same school too. It was a nice way to grow up and still is.

    My point has nothing to do with the good old days.

    My point is that the colleges can and will change their admissions policies to exclude Whiles and Asians in favor of blacks and Hispanics. Just as every job description and requirement in America has been changed to exclude Whites.

    Here’s an example. Before Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Webster firemen had to be hug and strong men able to lift and carry hoses and equipment weighing more than 100 pounds while rushing around. After Griggs and Kaiser cases fire departments were forced to hire tiny little men and even tinier little 5 ft 100 pound Asian women. And did.

    So many tiny midget Asian women swarmed into SFPD that SFPD had to create chokes for the pedals and special cushions for the teeny tiny Asian women. The chokes were wood and strapped unto the pedals so their short little legs could reach the pedals. A thing that was a sort of child car seat was invented so the teeny tiny little ladies could squiggle close enough to the steering wheel to hold it.

    All I care about is affirmative action against Whites by any and all non Whites. Black on White crime and the progress of the genocide against Whites.

    • Thanks: SafeNow
  133. @Almost Missouri

    A machine-learning model would be fed historical admissions data, including candidates’ family background and academic achievement, and noncognitive skills such as grit and resilience, along with outcomes of past admission decisions. It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance — as defined by each institution, such as college grade-point average or income 10 years after graduation. The model could figure out which characteristics best predict performance for various subgroups — for example, how salient SAT scores are for public-school Black students raised in the South by single mothers vs. private-school White kids from the Northeast. If we use only unadjusted test scores, all that context is lost.
    ...
    This approach would sidestep other thorny issues in college admissions as well. If, as some have argued, the SAT test is racially biased, the algorithm could place less weight on scores for Black students. If students who demonstrate resilience as children are more likely to be hidden gems, the data will show that, too.
     
    Anybody know what this "grit and resilience" stuff is that will be "fed" into machine learning models as "data" is?

    Are they going to do quantitative stress-testing on applicants now?



    https://post.healthline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/thallium-stress-test_thumb-1.jpg

    Replies: @Burnett

    I was waiting for someone to comment on that reference. So much of this AI stuff is snake-oil nonsense that depends on people not asking the obvious questions.

  134. boys from Nebraska with strong shape-rotator cognitive skills.

    I still think “shapelord” was the better word.

    How did we decide to go with “shape-rotator” again?

  135. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    WTH happened in 1994?



    (First guess: change in accounting method. But why would that make a noticeable difference? Do people not know if they are married? Change in common law marriages?)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    First guess: change in accounting method

    Quite possibly.

    Here are several different graphs:

  136. @SafeNow
    Human interviewers would do a better job than any algorithm, when it comes to deciding which candidates are best suited to making a qualitative jump. An Officers Candidate School admissions board does a superb job of assessing who has it and who doesn’t. It is, or at least used to be, a very structured interview, to prevent it from sympathetically wandering-off into topics the candidate is more comfortable with. I think a similar rigorous, pesky, interview process for college admissions would ascertain, among other qualities, who has a chip on his shoulder.

    Replies: @Alden, @Almost Missouri

    An Officers Candidate School admissions board does a superb job of assessing who has it and who doesn’t.

    Alden vindicated.

    See also, https://www.unz.com/jthompson/afghan-intelligence/#comment-4847858

    • Thanks: Alden
  137. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    someone posted the average fertility among black women by income (or education attainment, I don’t remember exactly) and the fertility of upscale black women was considerably lower than those of more downscale strata of blacks.
     
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/dark-dysgenics/

    American fertility trends are highly dysgenic overall
     
    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but "highly"? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE's post, above.

    black women are not exceptions to those trends.
     
    No, they're not: they're one of the main drivers of those trends. The other driver is the lunatic import-the-third-world policy.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but “highly”? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE’s post, above.

    You are right – it was incorrect of me to phrase it as “highly.”

    I discussed this previously – the fact that fertility decreases as income rises, but increases somewhat at the right end of the income distribution.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Twinkie

    I have no idea what right end of the income distribution means. But I know what 4 kids private schools all the way and a 5 bedroom house in Sea Cliff neighborhood of San Francisco means. . Law and medical school doesn’t make anyone rich. Lawyer incomes are all over the place and there are just too many of them. Drs wages have been sliding down ever since affirmative action for women from poor countries came along.

  138. @That Would Be Telling
    @SafeNow


    So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers....
     
    Didn't know we were having a debate about undergraduate teaching, although that's always an interesting question.

    Here you've got multiple dimensions, like how well established is field, how broad is it, and how much does the institution care about teaching? So computer science is particularly problematic in that no one including the top four schools in the world agree on how it should be taught. Two extremes are CMU and MIT, the first coming out of its math department, the other still a part of its EECS department college.

    CMU teaches hard core CS, including down to the machine level, assembly and C, and up to functional programming for all students. MIT after the dot.com bust terrified it and allowed certain actors more power became a Python and Javaschool that made sure you could create gadgets, although its required curriculum has changed since then and I haven't analyzed it.

    ABET requires some standard stuff, like a discrete math course after the standard calculus, but the details in how other courses are taught vary. And as previously mentioned, it believes design per se can be taught and MIT's EECS department disagrees, but famously not the MechE one. (And Harvard's wasn't an ABET program last time I checked....)

    Whoever (I forget) accredits chemistry and physics programs has a fixed set of required subjects and labs, it's standard, agreed upon and makes lots of sense. Biology is I expect harder for that because it's so big, there's also issues like doctor and EE professor Jerry Lettvin complaining circa 1980 about MIT's biology department not doing anything above the level of the cell which had more than a grain of truth.

    For example, what about zoology and botany?? Which particular things do you focus on at the low level? There's way too much to teach it all to undergraduates, or for one person to learn it all even given a lifetime of study (especially since we're still discovering so much).

    At one time I examined Caltech's core required curriculum its biology class was on HIV/AIDS. That's obviously partly political, but they claimed with merit it covered such a swath of subjects it was a good single required course. I note you get everything from weird virus hijinks and how they pervert normal mechanisms from DNA to the adaptive immune system which you have to also learn (the normal way).

    Then we get to your focus I think, how good is the instruction. Infamously many schools are really bad at this, the cliche being an unmotivated grad student, nowadays very likely foreign with poor English skills. I've also seen middle and lower tier schools cargo cult subjects beyond bad instructors, but the lower tier of community colleges and one step above them are often a better bet because the professors are there to teach, are not embittered because they didn't get into a top program to do their research. Those schools regularly sent grad students to MIT.

    I don't know how what I'm told is the increasingly common associate teacher model works in practice across all schools, I know some are great, especially if otherwise retired, or dedicated to a field like a professional author, but it's obviously focused on freeing up money for administrator salaries and reducing the power of tenured and tenure track professors. And not a happy life for a young academic who knows he's being used.

    Some schools are overloaded in majors for one reason or another and may have to weed out a lot of students attempting it, see in a different way our previous discussions of organic chemistry as an invaluable pre-med weed out course. So I wonder how enthusiastic the teachers of those are, but I've generally observed as long as there's a core of students in a class who get it, love it, do well in it the teachers are happy enough. And when a teacher who cares fails hard that's bad all around ... which is not what happened at NYU.

    Here we should also bring in the affirmative action (AA) scam, it's going to be a bad scene in the schools below Harvard and whichever that admit people who can't do the work. I don't know where that line is, just know Caltech, Harvard and MIT don't have that problem and Thomas Sowell reported Cornell had it some time ago.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Alden

    Thanks Telling. Always enjoy your comments.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
  139. @res
    @Twinkie

    Looks like our host was the source of that. This 2018 piece
    https://unz.com/isteve/how-the-races-score-on-postgrad-admissions-tests/
    links the original 2009 VDARE article.
    https://vdare.com/articles/graduate-school-admissions-race-and-the-white-status-game

    Not more recent, but nonetheless worth a look.
    https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

    No time to dig deeper right now.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Looks like our host was the source of that.

    😉

    So, when our esteemed host asks loaded questions such as “Hey, if Asian cognitive ability is being accurately measured by the SAT, how come they do poorly on the LSAT and the MCAT?” he is not being uninformed, he is just dog whistling to his core readership (“Asians are just gaming the SAT!”).

  140. @That Would Be Telling
    @SafeNow


    So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers....
     
    Didn't know we were having a debate about undergraduate teaching, although that's always an interesting question.

    Here you've got multiple dimensions, like how well established is field, how broad is it, and how much does the institution care about teaching? So computer science is particularly problematic in that no one including the top four schools in the world agree on how it should be taught. Two extremes are CMU and MIT, the first coming out of its math department, the other still a part of its EECS department college.

    CMU teaches hard core CS, including down to the machine level, assembly and C, and up to functional programming for all students. MIT after the dot.com bust terrified it and allowed certain actors more power became a Python and Javaschool that made sure you could create gadgets, although its required curriculum has changed since then and I haven't analyzed it.

    ABET requires some standard stuff, like a discrete math course after the standard calculus, but the details in how other courses are taught vary. And as previously mentioned, it believes design per se can be taught and MIT's EECS department disagrees, but famously not the MechE one. (And Harvard's wasn't an ABET program last time I checked....)

    Whoever (I forget) accredits chemistry and physics programs has a fixed set of required subjects and labs, it's standard, agreed upon and makes lots of sense. Biology is I expect harder for that because it's so big, there's also issues like doctor and EE professor Jerry Lettvin complaining circa 1980 about MIT's biology department not doing anything above the level of the cell which had more than a grain of truth.

    For example, what about zoology and botany?? Which particular things do you focus on at the low level? There's way too much to teach it all to undergraduates, or for one person to learn it all even given a lifetime of study (especially since we're still discovering so much).

    At one time I examined Caltech's core required curriculum its biology class was on HIV/AIDS. That's obviously partly political, but they claimed with merit it covered such a swath of subjects it was a good single required course. I note you get everything from weird virus hijinks and how they pervert normal mechanisms from DNA to the adaptive immune system which you have to also learn (the normal way).

    Then we get to your focus I think, how good is the instruction. Infamously many schools are really bad at this, the cliche being an unmotivated grad student, nowadays very likely foreign with poor English skills. I've also seen middle and lower tier schools cargo cult subjects beyond bad instructors, but the lower tier of community colleges and one step above them are often a better bet because the professors are there to teach, are not embittered because they didn't get into a top program to do their research. Those schools regularly sent grad students to MIT.

    I don't know how what I'm told is the increasingly common associate teacher model works in practice across all schools, I know some are great, especially if otherwise retired, or dedicated to a field like a professional author, but it's obviously focused on freeing up money for administrator salaries and reducing the power of tenured and tenure track professors. And not a happy life for a young academic who knows he's being used.

    Some schools are overloaded in majors for one reason or another and may have to weed out a lot of students attempting it, see in a different way our previous discussions of organic chemistry as an invaluable pre-med weed out course. So I wonder how enthusiastic the teachers of those are, but I've generally observed as long as there's a core of students in a class who get it, love it, do well in it the teachers are happy enough. And when a teacher who cares fails hard that's bad all around ... which is not what happened at NYU.

    Here we should also bring in the affirmative action (AA) scam, it's going to be a bad scene in the schools below Harvard and whichever that admit people who can't do the work. I don't know where that line is, just know Caltech, Harvard and MIT don't have that problem and Thomas Sowell reported Cornell had it some time ago.

    Replies: @BosTex, @Alden

    I’m really really sorry to be rude. But it’s 2022.

    These discussions have been going on for more than 60 years. March 6, 1961 actually. When race traitor President Kennedy issued the affirmative action executive order 10925 for federal contracting and employment.

    Way back in the early 1980s, there were many many foreign Asian Indian African Arab etc teachers instructors teaching assistants even entry level professors at the flagship University of Illinois Champaign Urbana. Their English was so bad they could not be understood by students Parents and students filed a lawsuit.

    How can a teacher teach when they can’t speak the language? The lawsuit was filed by parents and students in engineering science and math. The lawsuit pointed out that understandable English was especially important in math science engineering etc. Languages literature history archeology psychology sociology the verbal courses don’t need understandable teachers . Students could just read the books.

    But engineering math and science students need teachers who can speak the language of the students.

    The plaintiffs the students lost the case. They appealed of course. I never heard what how it came out.

    That’s affirmative action. Even if a non White can’t speak English he deserves to teach at a top 25 engineering school because he’s non White.

    Of course all non English speaking foreign students and teachers are required to pass the TOEFL test of reading writing understanding and speaking English. But test scores from the most corrupt countries on earth are not reliable.

    And even when it’s obvious they can’t read speak or understand English; can’t get rid of them That would be racist.

    Even if one anti affirmative action case is won in the courts. The universities government and employers will continue and increase discrimination against Whites.

    It’s 2022 almost 2023. And America is a totalitarian country. Just look at what the dictators did about covid hoax. Or TSA. Treated like cattle. Pawed and mauled Worse than those WW2 spy movies. Show us your papers. Frogs on a hundred year old golf course are slightly different from the frogs in the creek 5 miles away.? EPA seizes and closes the golf course. To protect the frogs who are no different from any other frogs.

    These discussions have gone on for 61 years. Just one result NWNA. No Whites Need Apply.

    • Agree: Sam Malone
  141. @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri


    American fertility is certainly dysgenic, but “highly”? White dysgenia is surprisingly mild per AE’s post, above.
     
    You are right - it was incorrect of me to phrase it as "highly."

    I discussed this previously - the fact that fertility decreases as income rises, but increases somewhat at the right end of the income distribution.

    Replies: @Alden

    I have no idea what right end of the income distribution means. But I know what 4 kids private schools all the way and a 5 bedroom house in Sea Cliff neighborhood of San Francisco means. . Law and medical school doesn’t make anyone rich. Lawyer incomes are all over the place and there are just too many of them. Drs wages have been sliding down ever since affirmative action for women from poor countries came along.

  142. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie


    It’s the right end of the intelligence and conscientiousness distributions – for both gentile white and East Asian males – who are being elbowed out to make room for less than brilliant Jews and NAMs… though there is a cascading effect on the middle eventually.
     
    Is that not a good thing for the Midwest and the South? They don’t lose their sons to the coastal elites and to assimilation into the globalists.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Is that not a good thing for the Midwest and the South? They don’t lose their sons to the coastal elites and to assimilation into the globalists.

    Yes, but they are being shut out of the leadership fraction of the society. It’s not good for the ambitious sons of the soil (will increase their resentment and contribute to social disturbances in the future) and it’s not good for the country, which is being deprived of their talents at the highest level.

    Perhaps we are going to see more and more of this in the future: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/iowa-teens-killed-spanish-teacher-over-bad-grade-says-prosecutor/ar-AA13D3tq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b9354477f1bd4d9bdde54ca85d362b69

    Two Iowa teenagers killed their high school Spanish teacher last year because of frustration over a bad grade, prosecutors said Tuesday in court documents that for the first time reveal a possible motive.


    They finally found the Great White Defendants (I mean the victim is not black, but a Spanish teacher is close enough!).

  143. @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses. When I was in high school, way back, my teachers were not rocket scientists, but they did not need to be. They were extremely good at teaching the two-eyes-one-nose things. They were great. I would extend this argument to undergraduate teaching. So, regarding the Reg/Telling debate about superstar teachers, my two cents worth is to endorse the two-eyes-one-nose teachers. (Conscientious and demanding, of course.). Before you assume, well SafeNow, that’s probably because you were an educational doofus. But I wasn’t. I was certainly a doofus about many things, but rank in class was not one of them.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

    Pablo Picasso famously said that he had to learn to paint people with two eyes and one nose before he could paint them with one eye and two noses.

    Arnold Schoenberg’s university composition texts are surprisingly conservative. He didn’t want you messing around with the 12-tone stuff until you had the traditional methods down cold.

  144. @George Taylor
    @Anonymous


    If so, why couldn’t they keep it? The fact that Ivy Leagues slipped into the hands of other groups is proof that the founding principles weren’t quite meritocratic but more about power politics, connections, and culture. At one time, it favored dumb Christians over smart non-Christians.
     
    "Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy"

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You see this in internet discussion forums too. A forum about (say) origami will be started by origami enthusiasts, but it will eventually end up in control of people whose main interest is waging internet feuds. Any interest in paper folding will be incidental.

  145. @Anonymous Jew
    @Batman

    I’d be interested to see where regression to the mean places the average American-born Nigerian.

    Also, if I recall, the children of Britain’s high achieving Black immigrants outscore the bottom of the White bell curve but not the top (unlike the Hindu and Orientals in Britain that do well top to bottom). Also, there’s no hiding the disproportionate amount of Blacks in Britain’s crime. But perhaps they’re more likely to be the children of Caribbean Blacks? (I’m an American, so if anyone has on the ground insights from the UK please feel free to correct me).

    Replies: @res, @International Jew

    Nigerians are thick on the ground in Houston. Find a recent list of national merit scholars (they’re released by state, by city, by high school). Count the African-sounding names. I did that recently and found at most one such. Versus tons of Chinese and Hindu names.

    Yeah yeah, I’ve heard of the Igbos too. Supposedly the Jews of Africa. Ok, but that’s like winning the intellectual Special Olympics.

    • Thanks: Chebyshev
  146. Blatant racial quotas are the fucking law, per Griggs v. Duke Power, 1971. What a lyin’-ass asshole.

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Eric Novak

    Thank you thank you. These ancient old codger discussions of affirmative are contemptible. And totally absolutely ignorant about affirmative action. Totally unaware it’s not 1962 when they applied to college.

    I wish Ron would install an It’s 2022 button along with agree disagree etc.

    Replies: @Eric Novak

  147. @Colin Wright
    '...What if, instead, admissions involved the use of sophisticated analytics to predict which applicants stand to become the future top performers?...'

    The comic bit here is that, like it or not, the wealthy were the top performers of the past, and their children -- for whatever matrix of reasons -- are going to be the top performers of the future.

    You don't breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.

    Replies: @Bumpkin

    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.

    This assumes drive, luck, and their own family history had nothing to do with the wealthy getting that way. How many children of self-made men do we see who don’t have the grit of their parents and thus backslide to the median? Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world? Of course, the latter are exceptional and defy all rules, but there are many like them who attain some wealth.

    If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bumpkin


    Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world?
     
    Wasn’t Bezos adopted? What do you know about his genetics?

    Genetics determine more than looks.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Colin Wright
    @Bumpkin

    'If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.'

    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.

    To cite one example, I ran my own moving business for a while, and my background being what it was, a solid one-two truck operation was just fine with me. I mean, I would have been happy to have had more wealth and power -- but if I made about the national average family income, that was all I had to have. Everyone I associated with thought this was just fine.

    Conversely, I had a helper for a while, and eventually, he started his own moving business. He really was a bit of a flake-o -- but daddy had been a millionaire of some sort in the building trades. Not Fortune 500, but decidedly not a small businessman.

    Sure enough: son pretty soon had a string of seven trucks going. That -- I would say -- is what he expected of himself.

    So...the rich will keep getting rich. And they'll keep achieving. It doesn't mean they're better -- or worse -- than you and I. It's just the way it works out. I'm not even sure it needs to be 'fixed.' After all, no one kept me from building a moving empire. I just never particularly wanted to do it --at least, I didn't want to badly enough to bother.

    To cite another example, both I and others have worked with some very able and energetic Hispanic craftsmen -- carpenters and the like. We say, 'you should start your own business.'

    Nahh...they'd rather just keep turning up for work on time. Well, fine -- but then, if one discovers that Hispanics don't rank very high on the economic totem pole, does that mean something's wrong?

    Not really. As long as you could do x if you were motivated enough and gifted enough, there's really nothing amiss with the world. If you choose not to -- well, it's a free country. That you don't doesn't signify much of anything at all.

    Replies: @Bumpkin

  148. @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    No, sir, it’s actually Hong Kong Chinese.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1587769/harvard-university-receives-largest-ever-donation-hong-kong

    It’s been like this for some years now. And Harvard ain’t the only one: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1944445/hong-kongs-rich-among-biggest-givers-kings
     
    Since you mentioned it, I took a quick look at what Li Ka-shing, reputedly Hong Kong's richest man, and a savvy investor who sold his Chinese assets long before* the current ructions, has done, in philanthropic terms. It appears he donated $120m to set up a medical school in Hong Kong.

    https://www.lihs.cuhk.edu.hk/en-us/introduction/thedonor.aspx

    And he donated ~$1.25b to set up a new university in China:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3016416/hong-kong-tycoon-li-ka-shings-influence-threatened-shantou

    This isn't apparently unique. Wealthy Chinese tycoons have often been big backers of charitable initiatives. The problem is that the Chinese state fears their influence, and for good reason. The First Emperor took power as the result of the efforts of a wealthy sponsor and wheeler dealer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BC_Buwei

    The Han dynasty was founded by an illiterate peasant backed by a wealthy father-in-law who took a shine to him based on his natural charisma, and decided to marry his daughter to the man. The narrative reads like Horatio Alger, albeit with oceans of blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Gaozu_of_Han#Birth_and_early_life

    The merchant princes of the West undid its absolute monarchies, either defanging them or abolishing them outright. Pure power politics, not ideological dogma, is at the root of Xi Jinping's quest to level out Chinese society - wealthy tycoons might back his enemies and undo his reign.

    An interesting footnote - in medieval China, a wealthy merchant whose business had been adversely impacted by royal impositions decided to carve a fief out for himself. He had previously been generous with his wealth, and quickly attracted a significant following. While his efforts came to naught, he achieved a kind of immortality in the Chinese classic novel The Water Margin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_La

    * Li took considerable flak from Xi Jinping's minions for his now obviously prescient move:

    https://www.thechinastory.org/yearbooks/yearbook-2015/forum-the-well-%E4%BA%95/li-ka-shing-moves-investments-out-of-china/

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Even before the $350 mil Chan donation to Harvard, the Hong Kong Chinese were massive givers to American schools: https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-tops-list-of-donors-to-u-s-schools-1411401637

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    If Harvard ever learns about this they may suddenly discover they looove their Asian applicants (at least the ones who work some Hong Kong reference into their essays).

    Replies: @Twinkie

  149. @Twinkie
    @Johann Ricke

    Even before the $350 mil Chan donation to Harvard, the Hong Kong Chinese were massive givers to American schools: https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-tops-list-of-donors-to-u-s-schools-1411401637

    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AI-CK940A_HKGIV_9U_20140922113612.jpg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    If Harvard ever learns about this they may suddenly discover they looove their Asian applicants (at least the ones who work some Hong Kong reference into their essays).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Almost Missouri


    If Harvard ever learns about this they may suddenly discover they looove their Asian applicants (at least the ones who work some Hong Kong reference into their essays).
     
    Harvard knows all about it. How do you think it secured the $350 million donation from the Chan family? Harvard does love the wealthy Hong Kong Chinese, it just doesn't care for the middle class or downscale Asian-Americans, because as Mr. Sailer puts it, they are so "lame" unlike the "Cool Blacks" whom everyone loves.
  150. @That Would Be Telling
    @Reg Cæsar


    So a “lesser” institution is indeed capable of competing with the big dogs by bringing together top students and faculty. Albeit, if Clark is a model, department-by-department rather than school-wide.
     
    The problem with this system is that it doesn't give the school or as you more accurately say department any continuity. As soon as that superstar like Goddard leaves (he had TB, and there were Great Depression and WWII complexities) the department reverts to the mean.

    And I hate to be a snob, but while I heard of many colleges and universities in Massachusetts including its neighbor WPI while I spent a dozen years in and around MIT, I never heard of Clark until today (OK, I guess I forgot that detail in the Goddard biography I read when young in the 1970s)....

    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania's greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less, and at the other end see how the University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign cultivated its 1952 ORDVAC and "Illinois Automatic Computer" ILLIAC I beginnings into today, per USNWR the number five graduate program in computer science, which comports which what I've observed over the decades.

    The biggest well known thing that came out of the school is probably Wolfram Mathematica, which I'll note is another example in how schools can be greedy and lose geniuses, in this case Caltech. Caltech is in the third rank of CS schools (albeit the school is very small), per USNWR tied for eleventh place.

    This can have serious consequences for undergraduates. Schools and professors may or may not care a lot for undergraduate education, the top four CS ones very much do, and that ties in with research opportunities/cheap labor. If you attended Clark while Goddard was there you might have been able to worm your way into working with him (albeit he's a many times over special case including the TB). No school needs a formal program for that, although it obviously helps. See MIT's incentivizing that by not charging overhead on student wages when they work for money in summer and January.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jim Don Bob

    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania’s greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less…

    How did this happen?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Jim Don Bob

    As John Mauchly and J. Presper Eckert were conceiving or whatever the EDVAC, the stored program computer following the patch board programmed ENIAC (which in due course got that sort of upgrade), the university demanded they assign all their patents to it. In three months or less. A month before the EDVAC contract was signed in April 1946.

    They simply left and went into business for themselves, eventually resulting in the UNIVAC I, the first of which was accepted and commissioned by the US Census Bureau in early-mid 1951 (the business side of things introduced quite a few delays, but that was the first commercial electronic computer sale).

  151. @Marquis
    @Anonymous

    There are several. I’m in the Midwest, but can name a few. Chicago puts out better students than Harvard, imo. At least in my industry. Hillsdale, Wabash, etc… in liberal arts. Hanover is easily one of the best engineering schools in the country.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

    Harvard’s undergraduate output is weird and probably unpredictable. It doesn’t demand a great deal from its students, in the late 1980s a strong in math although not at the Math 55 level friend was appalled that it only required students to prove they could do algebra.

    BUT in many fields you can get a world class education if you want. It says something there’s only one famous math course in the whole US and it’s at Harvard, one which taught Bill Gates some humility and in which Richard Stallman (RMS) excelled, was a very special part of his life and tells us something about his intellect.

    Of course this will depend on your field. I’d guess not humanities today due to wokeness, but it’s very strong in science and math. And historically weak in engineering, and iffy for computer science. But looking now it might be a lot stronger, certainly a lot of students as of late and now are majoring in it, around four hundred which would be more than MIT ever did in total and per capita, it’s also much heavier in math than the mostly computer science 6-3 MIT major). This sounds like a major change from the 1980s and I assume for a while after.

    Although we’re told, and can see it in that huge Allston campus building the university is trying again to address its engineering weakness as it has since a MIT chemistry professor became its president and starting turning it into a Great University.

    Chicago University I don’t know much about but most everything I’ve heard about it is good, at least compared to its competition, and I’m pretty sure it has standards unlike Harvard. Hillsdale at least in theory tries to address Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics so we can hope its humanities courses and majors are not woke.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @That Would Be Telling

    Oops, oops oops! (Wish for longer edit window!)

    Harvard is not even close to MIT's Computer Science student majors, I was comparing its total majors for four years of students vs. MIT's for each year, which pre-dot.com bust was four hundred for EE or CS or both, back in the 1980s and beyond mostly EE. After the bust and substantial recovery the combined EE and CS major became the most popular.

    Just checked the numbers for this academic year and there are even more total majors than the previous general high, about 450 per year (sophomore through senior), and the primary CS 6-3 major is now 57% of the majors, primary EE is nothing, and both is now less than half of 6-3, perhaps the department college is now sending fewer quants to Wall Street. Also plenty of non-ABET CS curriculum majors.

    , @Alden
    @That Would Be Telling

    Not Chicago university University of Chicago. Primo science school. Lots of colleges in Chicago have the word Chicago in the title. Rinky dink unaccredited law schools, city colleges, University of Illinois at Chicago,

  152. @That Would Be Telling
    @Marquis

    Harvard's undergraduate output is weird and probably unpredictable. It doesn't demand a great deal from its students, in the late 1980s a strong in math although not at the Math 55 level friend was appalled that it only required students to prove they could do algebra.

    BUT in many fields you can get a world class education if you want. It says something there's only one famous math course in the whole US and it's at Harvard, one which taught Bill Gates some humility and in which Richard Stallman (RMS) excelled, was a very special part of his life and tells us something about his intellect.

    Of course this will depend on your field. I'd guess not humanities today due to wokeness, but it's very strong in science and math. And historically weak in engineering, and iffy for computer science. But looking now it might be a lot stronger, certainly a lot of students as of late and now are majoring in it, around four hundred which would be more than MIT ever did in total and per capita, it's also much heavier in math than the mostly computer science 6-3 MIT major). This sounds like a major change from the 1980s and I assume for a while after.

    Although we're told, and can see it in that huge Allston campus building the university is trying again to address its engineering weakness as it has since a MIT chemistry professor became its president and starting turning it into a Great University.

    Chicago University I don't know much about but most everything I've heard about it is good, at least compared to its competition, and I'm pretty sure it has standards unlike Harvard. Hillsdale at least in theory tries to address Robert Conquest's Second Law of Politics so we can hope its humanities courses and majors are not woke.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alden

    Oops, oops oops! (Wish for longer edit window!)

    Harvard is not even close to MIT’s Computer Science student majors, I was comparing its total majors for four years of students vs. MIT’s for each year, which pre-dot.com bust was four hundred for EE or CS or both, back in the 1980s and beyond mostly EE. After the bust and substantial recovery the combined EE and CS major became the most popular.

    Just checked the numbers for this academic year and there are even more total majors than the previous general high, about 450 per year (sophomore through senior), and the primary CS 6-3 major is now 57% of the majors, primary EE is nothing, and both is now less than half of 6-3, perhaps the department college is now sending fewer quants to Wall Street. Also plenty of non-ABET CS curriculum majors.

  153. @Jim Don Bob
    @That Would Be Telling


    Going to one of my best known fields of computers, see how the University of Pennsylvania’s greed ended their number one status in the nation if not world in three months or less...
     
    How did this happen?

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

    As John Mauchly and J. Presper Eckert were conceiving or whatever the EDVAC, the stored program computer following the patch board programmed ENIAC (which in due course got that sort of upgrade), the university demanded they assign all their patents to it. In three months or less. A month before the EDVAC contract was signed in April 1946.

    They simply left and went into business for themselves, eventually resulting in the UNIVAC I, the first of which was accepted and commissioned by the US Census Bureau in early-mid 1951 (the business side of things introduced quite a few delays, but that was the first commercial electronic computer sale).

  154. @Alden
    @TGGP

    Why should African or any foreigners be admitted to any American college? Especially the state universities especially established by the taxpayers of the state for the benefit of the citizens and taxpayers???

    The men of UNZ the men of UNZ. Not only do they hate White women and dance for joy when White women are murdered by non Whites.

    But they accept that their own White children be denied admission to colleges so that Africans and other non White immigrants can get acceptance, degrees and high paid professional jobs White Americans are denied. Because of vicious racial discrimination against White Americans

    Comments like the above are one of the reasons it’s very obvious the men of UNZ don’t have children.

    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family

    Who goes to the Ivies matters if you care about who rules over you. In that sense, it does matter to me if other whites are discriminated against. Otherwise, I don’t know or care about those schools.

    I truly don’t understand why whites are not literally up in arms over the fact that that they are being replaced and discriminated against in their own homeland. I just don’t get it. And it’s not only women who want to be viewed as nice. You simply can’t help people who don’t want to be helped.

    Most whites would look at you like you just dropped from outer space if you brought up the topic of racial rapes and violence against whites. It’s bizarre.

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They’ve played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    • Replies: @Alden
    @OilcanFloyd

    Oldest grandchild is a freshman at an Ivy League school. More in high school maybe they’ll go Ivy League. My mom, born 1927 earned a science PHD from Cornell. Back when she was the only woman in the program.

    If we Aldens don’t obsess about Ivy admissions why should anyone else.

    I did my share. Contributed position papers a couple years before we started gathering signatures to put it on the ballot. Gave talks contributed money to the California anti affirmative proposition 209.

    We won the election. Jewish lawyers filed to overturn the election. We won the court case.

    And absolutely nothing happened to reverse or slow down affirmative action.

    Except for state university admissions. All that happened is the admissions committee stopped admitting totally unqualified blacks. And started admitting more qualified Asians.

    And the percentage of Whites in the university system kept declining every year.

    Prop 209 ended racial preference in all California state county city town and special district ( like school district irrigation district) plus state universities and colleges city colleges employment contracting granting state loans and business licenses.

    And after Prop 209 was passed by the voters. And won in the courts. Guess what happened.

    Nothing absolutely nothing to reverse discrimination against Whites. Except for a few Armenian and Persian families who successfully won university admission discrimination against their children. Armenian and Persian families who had $10,000 retainers to pay lawyers. And another $10,000 to $30,000 to pay those lawyers.

    Since Prop 209 became law, both statutory and judicial law it does give discriminated against Whites standing to sue. If they have a $10,000 retainer. And can find an attorney to take on a case about discrimination against Whites.

    Harvard has already ended the SAT submission requirement. On a temporary basis until 2026. And in 2026 will extend several more years. Or end the requirement already.

    And even if the Supreme Court finds that Harvard discriminated against Asians Whites won’t be helped one bit.

    Has anyone actually looked up the case and read the declarations part of the lawsuit setting out exactly how Harvard discriminates against Asians? . And read Harvard’s response claiming that Harvard does not discriminate against Asians?

    No because UNZ published articles by authors who haven’t read the case. And comments by people who haven’t read the case either.

    , @Anon
    @OilcanFloyd


    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They’ve played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!
     
    Did you mean to write that they are tribal loyalists? Why do you think they haven’t gotten much in return?

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    , @Alden
    @OilcanFloyd

    I’m a White woman. I didn’t just work on California’s anti affirmative action Proposition 209. I worked on it long before it was even written.

    And unlike the men of UNZ whose comments after raped and murders of Whites by blacks is White women deserve to be raped and murdered by blacks. And White men robbed assaulted and murdered by blacks are at fault. Because they didn’t move to a remote area far from blacks.

    Unlike the men of UNZ I a White woman, in a radical liberal county managed to send thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison. Instead of counseling.

    What exactly have you done for Whites? Helped write a state wide anti affirmative action referendum? Sent thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison?

    You’ve done nothing except post pathetic White women are responsible for affirmative action and black on White crime.

    In fact, in actual fact, the satanic Supreme Court judges who ruled against Whited on the 2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978 were all White men. White men, just like you.

    Likewise the satanic supreme who ruled in Brown vs Topeka 1953 and desegregated the schools were all White men just like you.

    It was White male JohnKennedy who issued executive order 10925 March 6 1961 less than 2 months after he became president mandating and ordering affirmative action for blacks in federal employment contracting A White man just like you.

    It was White male Lyndon Johnson who issued executive order 11246 mandating even more affirmative action for blacks. A White man just like you.

    It was White male President Nixon who issued executive order 11625 giving privileged affirmative action status to Hispanic surnamed persons

    And even in Roe vs Wade 1973 it was White male satanic supremes White men just like you. Who made abortion legal. What’s wrong with White men that they want even more black and brown babies born? Whom our taxes will support as children. Then who will discriminate against in jobs housing. everything . And commit half the crimes in America.

    Roe vs Wade was one of the very few SC decisions that helped Whites.

    Men of UNZ men of UNZ. Blame White women for what White men presidents and Supreme Court justices did. Men of UNZ men of UNZ can’t afford to marry and have White children. But want more black and brown babies born.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @OilcanFloyd

  155. @Marquis
    @Anonymous

    There are several. I’m in the Midwest, but can name a few. Chicago puts out better students than Harvard, imo. At least in my industry. Hillsdale, Wabash, etc… in liberal arts. Hanover is easily one of the best engineering schools in the country.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Reg Cæsar

    Wabash, Morehouse, and Hampden Sydney are still all-male, the only ones left in the country. Four-year, anyway. There is at least one two-year school, too. How many all-female colleges are left?

    But don’t confuse “all-male” with “conservative”.

  156. @Eric Novak
    Blatant racial quotas are the fucking law, per Griggs v. Duke Power, 1971. What a lyin’-ass asshole.

    Replies: @Alden

    Thank you thank you. These ancient old codger discussions of affirmative are contemptible. And totally absolutely ignorant about affirmative action. Totally unaware it’s not 1962 when they applied to college.

    I wish Ron would install an It’s 2022 button along with agree disagree etc.

    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    @Alden

    Makes my blood boil.

  157. @OilcanFloyd
    @Alden


    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family
     
    Who goes to the Ivies matters if you care about who rules over you. In that sense, it does matter to me if other whites are discriminated against. Otherwise, I don't know or care about those schools.

    I truly don't understand why whites are not literally up in arms over the fact that that they are being replaced and discriminated against in their own homeland. I just don't get it. And it's not only women who want to be viewed as nice. You simply can't help people who don't want to be helped.

    Most whites would look at you like you just dropped from outer space if you brought up the topic of racial rapes and violence against whites. It's bizarre.

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They've played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    Replies: @Alden, @Anon, @Alden

    Oldest grandchild is a freshman at an Ivy League school. More in high school maybe they’ll go Ivy League. My mom, born 1927 earned a science PHD from Cornell. Back when she was the only woman in the program.

    If we Aldens don’t obsess about Ivy admissions why should anyone else.

    I did my share. Contributed position papers a couple years before we started gathering signatures to put it on the ballot. Gave talks contributed money to the California anti affirmative proposition 209.

    We won the election. Jewish lawyers filed to overturn the election. We won the court case.

    And absolutely nothing happened to reverse or slow down affirmative action.

    Except for state university admissions. All that happened is the admissions committee stopped admitting totally unqualified blacks. And started admitting more qualified Asians.

    And the percentage of Whites in the university system kept declining every year.

    Prop 209 ended racial preference in all California state county city town and special district ( like school district irrigation district) plus state universities and colleges city colleges employment contracting granting state loans and business licenses.

    And after Prop 209 was passed by the voters. And won in the courts. Guess what happened.

    Nothing absolutely nothing to reverse discrimination against Whites. Except for a few Armenian and Persian families who successfully won university admission discrimination against their children. Armenian and Persian families who had $10,000 retainers to pay lawyers. And another $10,000 to $30,000 to pay those lawyers.

    Since Prop 209 became law, both statutory and judicial law it does give discriminated against Whites standing to sue. If they have a $10,000 retainer. And can find an attorney to take on a case about discrimination against Whites.

    Harvard has already ended the SAT submission requirement. On a temporary basis until 2026. And in 2026 will extend several more years. Or end the requirement already.

    And even if the Supreme Court finds that Harvard discriminated against Asians Whites won’t be helped one bit.

    Has anyone actually looked up the case and read the declarations part of the lawsuit setting out exactly how Harvard discriminates against Asians? . And read Harvard’s response claiming that Harvard does not discriminate against Asians?

    No because UNZ published articles by authors who haven’t read the case. And comments by people who haven’t read the case either.

  158. @Bumpkin
    @Colin Wright


    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.
     
    This assumes drive, luck, and their own family history had nothing to do with the wealthy getting that way. How many children of self-made men do we see who don't have the grit of their parents and thus backslide to the median? Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world? Of course, the latter are exceptional and defy all rules, but there are many like them who attain some wealth.

    If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

    Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world?

    Wasn’t Bezos adopted? What do you know about his genetics?

    Genetics determine more than looks.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anonymous

    Bezos Not adopted White Cuban parents. Steve Jobs was adopted. His real parents were two graduate students. So good genetics.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  159. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @OilcanFloyd
    @Alden


    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family
     
    Who goes to the Ivies matters if you care about who rules over you. In that sense, it does matter to me if other whites are discriminated against. Otherwise, I don't know or care about those schools.

    I truly don't understand why whites are not literally up in arms over the fact that that they are being replaced and discriminated against in their own homeland. I just don't get it. And it's not only women who want to be viewed as nice. You simply can't help people who don't want to be helped.

    Most whites would look at you like you just dropped from outer space if you brought up the topic of racial rapes and violence against whites. It's bizarre.

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They've played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    Replies: @Alden, @Anon, @Alden

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They’ve played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    Did you mean to write that they are tribal loyalists? Why do you think they haven’t gotten much in return?

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @Anon


    Did you mean to write that they are tribal loyalists? Why do you think they haven’t gotten much in return?
     
    White women have been a big part of the Left's voting base and big recipients of AA. No, I don't consider white women to be particularly race conscious or loyal, but that may change now that it is becoming clear that whites are under attack, and demographic change is in their faces, against their interests, and is something quite different than what they were told it would be. Hopefully, reality can tear down feminist indoctrination in women and awaken men.
  160. @OilcanFloyd
    @Alden


    Lower middle class American proles discussing admission standards of top 5 colleges reminds me of English proles discussing the royal family
     
    Who goes to the Ivies matters if you care about who rules over you. In that sense, it does matter to me if other whites are discriminated against. Otherwise, I don't know or care about those schools.

    I truly don't understand why whites are not literally up in arms over the fact that that they are being replaced and discriminated against in their own homeland. I just don't get it. And it's not only women who want to be viewed as nice. You simply can't help people who don't want to be helped.

    Most whites would look at you like you just dropped from outer space if you brought up the topic of racial rapes and violence against whites. It's bizarre.

    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They've played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!

    Replies: @Alden, @Anon, @Alden

    I’m a White woman. I didn’t just work on California’s anti affirmative action Proposition 209. I worked on it long before it was even written.

    And unlike the men of UNZ whose comments after raped and murders of Whites by blacks is White women deserve to be raped and murdered by blacks. And White men robbed assaulted and murdered by blacks are at fault. Because they didn’t move to a remote area far from blacks.

    Unlike the men of UNZ I a White woman, in a radical liberal county managed to send thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison. Instead of counseling.

    What exactly have you done for Whites? Helped write a state wide anti affirmative action referendum? Sent thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison?

    You’ve done nothing except post pathetic White women are responsible for affirmative action and black on White crime.

    In fact, in actual fact, the satanic Supreme Court judges who ruled against Whited on the 2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978 were all White men. White men, just like you.

    Likewise the satanic supreme who ruled in Brown vs Topeka 1953 and desegregated the schools were all White men just like you.

    It was White male JohnKennedy who issued executive order 10925 March 6 1961 less than 2 months after he became president mandating and ordering affirmative action for blacks in federal employment contracting A White man just like you.

    It was White male Lyndon Johnson who issued executive order 11246 mandating even more affirmative action for blacks. A White man just like you.

    It was White male President Nixon who issued executive order 11625 giving privileged affirmative action status to Hispanic surnamed persons

    And even in Roe vs Wade 1973 it was White male satanic supremes White men just like you. Who made abortion legal. What’s wrong with White men that they want even more black and brown babies born? Whom our taxes will support as children. Then who will discriminate against in jobs housing. everything . And commit half the crimes in America.

    Roe vs Wade was one of the very few SC decisions that helped Whites.

    Men of UNZ men of UNZ. Blame White women for what White men presidents and Supreme Court justices did. Men of UNZ men of UNZ can’t afford to marry and have White children. But want more black and brown babies born.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Alden


    2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978
     
    United Steelworkers v. Weber (1979)? Incidentally, 3/5 of the majority in Weber were appointed by Republicans, but there has always been a problem with "conservatives" going native in DC.

    Black affirmative action judge Thurgood Marshall was in the majority of both cases, but his absence wouldn't have changed the result.

    , @OilcanFloyd
    @Alden

    You make lots of strange assumptions about me, and your history lesson isn't something that I need. I'm not sure how I pissed you off, but your response to me is odd.

    If you did the things you claim to have done, then you have done more than most whites of either gender, but that doesn't change the way that women vote. The things you did were done when I was a child or young adult, but kudos to you.

    I don't blame victims of crime for their victimization, and I recognize the crime directed at whites, and particularly sex crimes against white women, to be a form of racial warfare. Why that isn't on the feminist list of societal ills is beyond me.

    I didn't go to an Ivy League school, and it was never something that I thought about doing. I worked and paid my way through the schools that I could afford to attend, while it was still possible to do so. I had no help, advice, or connections anywhere, and I know exactly how AA harms whites. I was tailor-made to be on the receiving end, and there was usually a white face on the other side shoveling the bs in my direction.

    I don't hate women, especially white women, but it's no secret that white women were early beneficiaries of AA, and that they have been a major part of the Left's voting bloc.

  161. @That Would Be Telling
    @Marquis

    Harvard's undergraduate output is weird and probably unpredictable. It doesn't demand a great deal from its students, in the late 1980s a strong in math although not at the Math 55 level friend was appalled that it only required students to prove they could do algebra.

    BUT in many fields you can get a world class education if you want. It says something there's only one famous math course in the whole US and it's at Harvard, one which taught Bill Gates some humility and in which Richard Stallman (RMS) excelled, was a very special part of his life and tells us something about his intellect.

    Of course this will depend on your field. I'd guess not humanities today due to wokeness, but it's very strong in science and math. And historically weak in engineering, and iffy for computer science. But looking now it might be a lot stronger, certainly a lot of students as of late and now are majoring in it, around four hundred which would be more than MIT ever did in total and per capita, it's also much heavier in math than the mostly computer science 6-3 MIT major). This sounds like a major change from the 1980s and I assume for a while after.

    Although we're told, and can see it in that huge Allston campus building the university is trying again to address its engineering weakness as it has since a MIT chemistry professor became its president and starting turning it into a Great University.

    Chicago University I don't know much about but most everything I've heard about it is good, at least compared to its competition, and I'm pretty sure it has standards unlike Harvard. Hillsdale at least in theory tries to address Robert Conquest's Second Law of Politics so we can hope its humanities courses and majors are not woke.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alden

    Not Chicago university University of Chicago. Primo science school. Lots of colleges in Chicago have the word Chicago in the title. Rinky dink unaccredited law schools, city colleges, University of Illinois at Chicago,

  162. @Anonymous
    @Bumpkin


    Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world?
     
    Wasn’t Bezos adopted? What do you know about his genetics?

    Genetics determine more than looks.

    Replies: @Alden

    Bezos Not adopted White Cuban parents. Steve Jobs was adopted. His real parents were two graduate students. So good genetics.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Alden

    Bezos's mom divorced his father, a Danish-American, and remarried a Cuban-American Exxon engineer.

    Both Bezos and Steve Jobs had excellent relationships with the non-biological fathers who raised them.

  163. @Alden
    @Eric Novak

    Thank you thank you. These ancient old codger discussions of affirmative are contemptible. And totally absolutely ignorant about affirmative action. Totally unaware it’s not 1962 when they applied to college.

    I wish Ron would install an It’s 2022 button along with agree disagree etc.

    Replies: @Eric Novak

    Makes my blood boil.

  164. @Jon
    @Twinkie

    At least we got rid of abortion.

    Replies: @Alden

    Ahhh yes, abortion, the Holy Grail, the Supreme goal of all the retarded idiot conservative White men who want more and more black and brown babies born. Who will grow up and continue to take our jobs housing education and everything from us.

    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Alden


    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.
     
    For every non-white baby Roe aborted, it created another "lazy pregnancy" coming to term that wouldn't have been conceived before Roe. These "lazy pregnancy" births were disproportionately non-white and criminal.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings fifty years later, but Roe turned out to be anti-white.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

  165. @Alden
    @Anonymous

    Bezos Not adopted White Cuban parents. Steve Jobs was adopted. His real parents were two graduate students. So good genetics.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Bezos’s mom divorced his father, a Danish-American, and remarried a Cuban-American Exxon engineer.

    Both Bezos and Steve Jobs had excellent relationships with the non-biological fathers who raised them.

  166. @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie

    If Harvard ever learns about this they may suddenly discover they looove their Asian applicants (at least the ones who work some Hong Kong reference into their essays).

    Replies: @Twinkie

    If Harvard ever learns about this they may suddenly discover they looove their Asian applicants (at least the ones who work some Hong Kong reference into their essays).

    Harvard knows all about it. How do you think it secured the $350 million donation from the Chan family? Harvard does love the wealthy Hong Kong Chinese, it just doesn’t care for the middle class or downscale Asian-Americans, because as Mr. Sailer puts it, they are so “lame” unlike the “Cool Blacks” whom everyone loves.

  167. @William Badwhite
    @Steve Sailer

    Indeed...



    white male legacy
     
    https://news.yale.edu/2013/09/29/historic-250-million-gift-yale-alumnus-largest-ever

    Republican
     
    https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Charles-Johnson-donates-to-Herschel-Walker-16582030.php

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Indeed…

    Yale only got $250 million from the Johnsons. Harvard got $350 million from the Hong Kong Chans. Harvard wins again!

  168. @Alden
    @OilcanFloyd

    I’m a White woman. I didn’t just work on California’s anti affirmative action Proposition 209. I worked on it long before it was even written.

    And unlike the men of UNZ whose comments after raped and murders of Whites by blacks is White women deserve to be raped and murdered by blacks. And White men robbed assaulted and murdered by blacks are at fault. Because they didn’t move to a remote area far from blacks.

    Unlike the men of UNZ I a White woman, in a radical liberal county managed to send thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison. Instead of counseling.

    What exactly have you done for Whites? Helped write a state wide anti affirmative action referendum? Sent thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison?

    You’ve done nothing except post pathetic White women are responsible for affirmative action and black on White crime.

    In fact, in actual fact, the satanic Supreme Court judges who ruled against Whited on the 2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978 were all White men. White men, just like you.

    Likewise the satanic supreme who ruled in Brown vs Topeka 1953 and desegregated the schools were all White men just like you.

    It was White male JohnKennedy who issued executive order 10925 March 6 1961 less than 2 months after he became president mandating and ordering affirmative action for blacks in federal employment contracting A White man just like you.

    It was White male Lyndon Johnson who issued executive order 11246 mandating even more affirmative action for blacks. A White man just like you.

    It was White male President Nixon who issued executive order 11625 giving privileged affirmative action status to Hispanic surnamed persons

    And even in Roe vs Wade 1973 it was White male satanic supremes White men just like you. Who made abortion legal. What’s wrong with White men that they want even more black and brown babies born? Whom our taxes will support as children. Then who will discriminate against in jobs housing. everything . And commit half the crimes in America.

    Roe vs Wade was one of the very few SC decisions that helped Whites.

    Men of UNZ men of UNZ. Blame White women for what White men presidents and Supreme Court justices did. Men of UNZ men of UNZ can’t afford to marry and have White children. But want more black and brown babies born.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @OilcanFloyd

    2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978

    United Steelworkers v. Weber (1979)? Incidentally, 3/5 of the majority in Weber were appointed by Republicans, but there has always been a problem with “conservatives” going native in DC.

    Black affirmative action judge Thurgood Marshall was in the majority of both cases, but his absence wouldn’t have changed the result.

  169. @Alden
    @Jon

    Ahhh yes, abortion, the Holy Grail, the Supreme goal of all the retarded idiot conservative White men who want more and more black and brown babies born. Who will grow up and continue to take our jobs housing education and everything from us.

    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.

    For every non-white baby Roe aborted, it created another “lazy pregnancy” coming to term that wouldn’t have been conceived before Roe. These “lazy pregnancy” births were disproportionately non-white and criminal.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings fifty years later, but Roe turned out to be anti-white.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @Almost Missouri


    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings fifty years later, but Roe turned out to be anti-white.
     
    Abortion as a form of birth control is morally wrong, but you are right. Abortion along with the welfare state and immigration has likely done more harm to the West than can be repaired.
  170. @Alden
    @OilcanFloyd

    I’m a White woman. I didn’t just work on California’s anti affirmative action Proposition 209. I worked on it long before it was even written.

    And unlike the men of UNZ whose comments after raped and murders of Whites by blacks is White women deserve to be raped and murdered by blacks. And White men robbed assaulted and murdered by blacks are at fault. Because they didn’t move to a remote area far from blacks.

    Unlike the men of UNZ I a White woman, in a radical liberal county managed to send thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison. Instead of counseling.

    What exactly have you done for Whites? Helped write a state wide anti affirmative action referendum? Sent thousands of black criminals to maximum terms in state prison?

    You’ve done nothing except post pathetic White women are responsible for affirmative action and black on White crime.

    In fact, in actual fact, the satanic Supreme Court judges who ruled against Whited on the 2 most important affirmative action cases; Griggs vs Duke Power 1971, and Kaiser vs Weber 1978 were all White men. White men, just like you.

    Likewise the satanic supreme who ruled in Brown vs Topeka 1953 and desegregated the schools were all White men just like you.

    It was White male JohnKennedy who issued executive order 10925 March 6 1961 less than 2 months after he became president mandating and ordering affirmative action for blacks in federal employment contracting A White man just like you.

    It was White male Lyndon Johnson who issued executive order 11246 mandating even more affirmative action for blacks. A White man just like you.

    It was White male President Nixon who issued executive order 11625 giving privileged affirmative action status to Hispanic surnamed persons

    And even in Roe vs Wade 1973 it was White male satanic supremes White men just like you. Who made abortion legal. What’s wrong with White men that they want even more black and brown babies born? Whom our taxes will support as children. Then who will discriminate against in jobs housing. everything . And commit half the crimes in America.

    Roe vs Wade was one of the very few SC decisions that helped Whites.

    Men of UNZ men of UNZ. Blame White women for what White men presidents and Supreme Court justices did. Men of UNZ men of UNZ can’t afford to marry and have White children. But want more black and brown babies born.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @OilcanFloyd

    You make lots of strange assumptions about me, and your history lesson isn’t something that I need. I’m not sure how I pissed you off, but your response to me is odd.

    If you did the things you claim to have done, then you have done more than most whites of either gender, but that doesn’t change the way that women vote. The things you did were done when I was a child or young adult, but kudos to you.

    I don’t blame victims of crime for their victimization, and I recognize the crime directed at whites, and particularly sex crimes against white women, to be a form of racial warfare. Why that isn’t on the feminist list of societal ills is beyond me.

    I didn’t go to an Ivy League school, and it was never something that I thought about doing. I worked and paid my way through the schools that I could afford to attend, while it was still possible to do so. I had no help, advice, or connections anywhere, and I know exactly how AA harms whites. I was tailor-made to be on the receiving end, and there was usually a white face on the other side shoveling the bs in my direction.

    I don’t hate women, especially white women, but it’s no secret that white women were early beneficiaries of AA, and that they have been a major part of the Left’s voting bloc.

  171. @Almost Missouri
    @Alden


    Anti abortion is anti White. Pro abortion is pro White.
     
    For every non-white baby Roe aborted, it created another "lazy pregnancy" coming to term that wouldn't have been conceived before Roe. These "lazy pregnancy" births were disproportionately non-white and criminal.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings fifty years later, but Roe turned out to be anti-white.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings fifty years later, but Roe turned out to be anti-white.

    Abortion as a form of birth control is morally wrong, but you are right. Abortion along with the welfare state and immigration has likely done more harm to the West than can be repaired.

  172. @Anon
    @OilcanFloyd


    I will say that white women are far from tribal loyalists in most cases. They’ve played a key role in getting us to where we are, and for little in return!
     
    Did you mean to write that they are tribal loyalists? Why do you think they haven’t gotten much in return?

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    Did you mean to write that they are tribal loyalists? Why do you think they haven’t gotten much in return?

    White women have been a big part of the Left’s voting base and big recipients of AA. No, I don’t consider white women to be particularly race conscious or loyal, but that may change now that it is becoming clear that whites are under attack, and demographic change is in their faces, against their interests, and is something quite different than what they were told it would be. Hopefully, reality can tear down feminist indoctrination in women and awaken men.

  173. @Bumpkin
    @Colin Wright


    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.
     
    This assumes drive, luck, and their own family history had nothing to do with the wealthy getting that way. How many children of self-made men do we see who don't have the grit of their parents and thus backslide to the median? Conversely, how often do we see men like Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds and become the richest men in the world? Of course, the latter are exceptional and defy all rules, but there are many like them who attain some wealth.

    If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Colin Wright

    ‘If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.’

    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.

    To cite one example, I ran my own moving business for a while, and my background being what it was, a solid one-two truck operation was just fine with me. I mean, I would have been happy to have had more wealth and power — but if I made about the national average family income, that was all I had to have. Everyone I associated with thought this was just fine.

    Conversely, I had a helper for a while, and eventually, he started his own moving business. He really was a bit of a flake-o — but daddy had been a millionaire of some sort in the building trades. Not Fortune 500, but decidedly not a small businessman.

    Sure enough: son pretty soon had a string of seven trucks going. That — I would say — is what he expected of himself.

    So…the rich will keep getting rich. And they’ll keep achieving. It doesn’t mean they’re better — or worse — than you and I. It’s just the way it works out. I’m not even sure it needs to be ‘fixed.’ After all, no one kept me from building a moving empire. I just never particularly wanted to do it –at least, I didn’t want to badly enough to bother.

    To cite another example, both I and others have worked with some very able and energetic Hispanic craftsmen — carpenters and the like. We say, ‘you should start your own business.’

    Nahh…they’d rather just keep turning up for work on time. Well, fine — but then, if one discovers that Hispanics don’t rank very high on the economic totem pole, does that mean something’s wrong?

    Not really. As long as you could do x if you were motivated enough and gifted enough, there’s really nothing amiss with the world. If you choose not to — well, it’s a free country. That you don’t doesn’t signify much of anything at all.

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    @Colin Wright


    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.
     
    You're right, you didn't say that, I was a bit imprecise in my disagreement.

    Let me examine what you actually said.

    like it or not, the wealthy were the top performers of the past, and their children — for whatever matrix of reasons — are going to be the top performers of the future.
     
    Yes, but what made them "the top performers of the past?" Undoubtedly their genetics, but what I was getting at is there were plenty of people with what you may call good genetics who had the misfortune to be born in impoverished areas like Eastern Europe or rural China, ie luck and past history played a large role.

    Another factor is that the environment has changed and what may have favored certain genetics in the past doesn't today. Warren Buffett often mentions that he was extraordinarily lucky not to be born in any century other than the 20th, when he would've had nowhere near the success he had by simply poring over financial statements and picking stocks. Similarly, disagreeable Elon Musk would have been the black sheep of a village a century ago, similarly to how he's being pilloried by many of the Twitter villagers today, ie the genes selected for change over time.

    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.
     
    Finally, even assuming a stable environment, there are only so many "winners," particularly in a tournament. Most of those who descend from past human "show" competitors don't win either, and yes, there's nothing stopping past non-show descendants from competing and winning. You may simply expect a smaller percentage of non-show descendants to succeed if every other factor is "fair," which it never is. Of course, I'm not talking about dog shows but human wealth, where being from a certain breed like a dog show doesn't really matter.

    While we agree that genetics plays a large role, you seemed to be overstating its role IMO.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  174. @Colin Wright
    @Bumpkin

    'If it were merely a dog show based on looks and following orders, you may be right that only genetics matter, but human success is much more complex than that and so genetics is not the only factor, though it plays a significant role.'

    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.

    To cite one example, I ran my own moving business for a while, and my background being what it was, a solid one-two truck operation was just fine with me. I mean, I would have been happy to have had more wealth and power -- but if I made about the national average family income, that was all I had to have. Everyone I associated with thought this was just fine.

    Conversely, I had a helper for a while, and eventually, he started his own moving business. He really was a bit of a flake-o -- but daddy had been a millionaire of some sort in the building trades. Not Fortune 500, but decidedly not a small businessman.

    Sure enough: son pretty soon had a string of seven trucks going. That -- I would say -- is what he expected of himself.

    So...the rich will keep getting rich. And they'll keep achieving. It doesn't mean they're better -- or worse -- than you and I. It's just the way it works out. I'm not even sure it needs to be 'fixed.' After all, no one kept me from building a moving empire. I just never particularly wanted to do it --at least, I didn't want to badly enough to bother.

    To cite another example, both I and others have worked with some very able and energetic Hispanic craftsmen -- carpenters and the like. We say, 'you should start your own business.'

    Nahh...they'd rather just keep turning up for work on time. Well, fine -- but then, if one discovers that Hispanics don't rank very high on the economic totem pole, does that mean something's wrong?

    Not really. As long as you could do x if you were motivated enough and gifted enough, there's really nothing amiss with the world. If you choose not to -- well, it's a free country. That you don't doesn't signify much of anything at all.

    Replies: @Bumpkin

    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.

    You’re right, you didn’t say that, I was a bit imprecise in my disagreement.

    Let me examine what you actually said.

    like it or not, the wealthy were the top performers of the past, and their children — for whatever matrix of reasons — are going to be the top performers of the future.

    Yes, but what made them “the top performers of the past?” Undoubtedly their genetics, but what I was getting at is there were plenty of people with what you may call good genetics who had the misfortune to be born in impoverished areas like Eastern Europe or rural China, ie luck and past history played a large role.

    Another factor is that the environment has changed and what may have favored certain genetics in the past doesn’t today. Warren Buffett often mentions that he was extraordinarily lucky not to be born in any century other than the 20th, when he would’ve had nowhere near the success he had by simply poring over financial statements and picking stocks. Similarly, disagreeable Elon Musk would have been the black sheep of a village a century ago, similarly to how he’s being pilloried by many of the Twitter villagers today, ie the genes selected for change over time.

    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.

    Finally, even assuming a stable environment, there are only so many “winners,” particularly in a tournament. Most of those who descend from past human “show” competitors don’t win either, and yes, there’s nothing stopping past non-show descendants from competing and winning. You may simply expect a smaller percentage of non-show descendants to succeed if every other factor is “fair,” which it never is. Of course, I’m not talking about dog shows but human wealth, where being from a certain breed like a dog show doesn’t really matter.

    While we agree that genetics plays a large role, you seemed to be overstating its role IMO.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Bumpkin

    '...While we agree that genetics plays a large role, you seemed to be overstating its role IMO.'

    I think that at bottom, where we disagree isn't quite there.

    You seem to see an 'inheritance' as simply a matter of genetics.

    It's not; culture is real. Not just human behavior, but the behavior of many advanced animals is determined by culture. Some Killer Whales hunt salmon; others roam the seas ambushing seal pups and things. There're not genetically different -- but they have 'learned' different behaviors, and they pass those behaviors on to their offspring. No doubt if you switched them, the seal-hunting Killer Whales would be at loss as to how to hunt salmon efficiently, while the Salmon-eating Killer Whales might well starve before they caught a single seal.

    Ditto for people. As I attempted to illustrate with the story of my helper versus myself, people respond not just to their genetic inheritance, but to their equally heritable self-imposed expectations, attitudes, etc. One can jump tracks -- but it'll be hard. If I want to head down to South Central and become a gang leader, well...I'll face some personal challenges. Vice-versa -- as perhaps OJ Simpson illustrated. It turned out you could take the boy out of the ghetto, but you couldn't take the ghetto out of the boy.

    It's not good or bad. It's just the way it is -- and I think that beyond avoiding actually reinforcing the barriers with formal legal and social constraints, we would be wise to accept it. People do change social strata -- but they're more the exception than the rule. Andrew Carnegie was born in Scotland 'in a typical weaver's cottage with only one main room, consisting of half the ground floor, which was shared with the neighboring weaver's family.'

    He certainly rose; but I doubt if his was the experience of the average child of a Scottish weaver. In point of fact, most of our 'affirmative action' admissions and hires come from people who were born in the upper social strata to begin with, and I have noticed that your uber-multi-mega billionaires disproportionately had decidedly wealthy individuals for parents -- not impoverished weavers.

    It's not genetics -- at least not primarily genetics -- but that doesn't mean it's easily changed or even that it should be changed. To cite another story -- this one from a good sixty years ago, back when Thailand was still a third-world country, some UN philanthropists went there and gave the peasants some improved rice that would yield double the harvest from each rice plant. The peasants were receptive, and so the philathropists returned a few years later, confidently expected doubled crops and newly wealthy peasants.

    ...the harvest was exactly what it had been. Weren't the peasants using the new rice? They were. Didn't it yield double the crop?

    It did...so the peasants had simply started planting half as much. After all, they knew how much rice they needed. Why work to grow more?

    Most people -- absent acute misery or total social upheaval -- will just do about what their parents did. That's just the way it is. There's nothing unfair about it, nor does it need to be fixed.

  175. @Bumpkin
    @Colin Wright


    Did I say only genetics matter? In any case, both upbringing and internalized expectations have a lot to do with it.
     
    You're right, you didn't say that, I was a bit imprecise in my disagreement.

    Let me examine what you actually said.

    like it or not, the wealthy were the top performers of the past, and their children — for whatever matrix of reasons — are going to be the top performers of the future.
     
    Yes, but what made them "the top performers of the past?" Undoubtedly their genetics, but what I was getting at is there were plenty of people with what you may call good genetics who had the misfortune to be born in impoverished areas like Eastern Europe or rural China, ie luck and past history played a large role.

    Another factor is that the environment has changed and what may have favored certain genetics in the past doesn't today. Warren Buffett often mentions that he was extraordinarily lucky not to be born in any century other than the 20th, when he would've had nowhere near the success he had by simply poring over financial statements and picking stocks. Similarly, disagreeable Elon Musk would have been the black sheep of a village a century ago, similarly to how he's being pilloried by many of the Twitter villagers today, ie the genes selected for change over time.

    You don’t breed dog show winners by crossing all the animals who were never in the show.
     
    Finally, even assuming a stable environment, there are only so many "winners," particularly in a tournament. Most of those who descend from past human "show" competitors don't win either, and yes, there's nothing stopping past non-show descendants from competing and winning. You may simply expect a smaller percentage of non-show descendants to succeed if every other factor is "fair," which it never is. Of course, I'm not talking about dog shows but human wealth, where being from a certain breed like a dog show doesn't really matter.

    While we agree that genetics plays a large role, you seemed to be overstating its role IMO.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘…While we agree that genetics plays a large role, you seemed to be overstating its role IMO.’

    I think that at bottom, where we disagree isn’t quite there.

    You seem to see an ‘inheritance’ as simply a matter of genetics.

    It’s not; culture is real.

    [MORE]
    Not just human behavior, but the behavior of many advanced animals is determined by culture. Some Killer Whales hunt salmon; others roam the seas ambushing seal pups and things. There’re not genetically different — but they have ‘learned’ different behaviors, and they pass those behaviors on to their offspring. No doubt if you switched them, the seal-hunting Killer Whales would be at loss as to how to hunt salmon efficiently, while the Salmon-eating Killer Whales might well starve before they caught a single seal.

    Ditto for people. As I attempted to illustrate with the story of my helper versus myself, people respond not just to their genetic inheritance, but to their equally heritable self-imposed expectations, attitudes, etc. One can jump tracks — but it’ll be hard. If I want to head down to South Central and become a gang leader, well…I’ll face some personal challenges. Vice-versa — as perhaps OJ Simpson illustrated. It turned out you could take the boy out of the ghetto, but you couldn’t take the ghetto out of the boy.

    It’s not good or bad. It’s just the way it is — and I think that beyond avoiding actually reinforcing the barriers with formal legal and social constraints, we would be wise to accept it. People do change social strata — but they’re more the exception than the rule. Andrew Carnegie was born in Scotland ‘in a typical weaver’s cottage with only one main room, consisting of half the ground floor, which was shared with the neighboring weaver’s family.’

    He certainly rose; but I doubt if his was the experience of the average child of a Scottish weaver. In point of fact, most of our ‘affirmative action’ admissions and hires come from people who were born in the upper social strata to begin with, and I have noticed that your uber-multi-mega billionaires disproportionately had decidedly wealthy individuals for parents — not impoverished weavers.

    It’s not genetics — at least not primarily genetics — but that doesn’t mean it’s easily changed or even that it should be changed. To cite another story — this one from a good sixty years ago, back when Thailand was still a third-world country, some UN philanthropists went there and gave the peasants some improved rice that would yield double the harvest from each rice plant. The peasants were receptive, and so the philathropists returned a few years later, confidently expected doubled crops and newly wealthy peasants.

    …the harvest was exactly what it had been. Weren’t the peasants using the new rice? They were. Didn’t it yield double the crop?

    It did…so the peasants had simply started planting half as much. After all, they knew how much rice they needed. Why work to grow more?

    Most people — absent acute misery or total social upheaval — will just do about what their parents did. That’s just the way it is. There’s nothing unfair about it, nor does it need to be fixed.

  176. You seem to see an ‘inheritance’ as simply a matter of genetics.

    It’s not; culture is real.

    No, we agree on that too. I see them as concentric circles that affect your life, with the innermost being your genetics, that only affects you and cannot be changed, to your family, that only affects the family members and can somewhat be mediated after leaving home, to the community you live in, which affects the community members and which nowadays can be changed because of modern transportation, to your country, which affects all your countrymen and changes over time or if you leave, as I have before.

    One can jump tracks — but it’ll be hard.

    You’re right that culture is another barrier for “non-show” folk, but with modern media, not as much as it was.

    It’s not good or bad. It’s just the way it is

    While it certainly isn’t black or white, as you say, I do think there is much more avenue for change now than there was, and that is largely good, ie when a farmer’s son who felt stifled by his father’s line was able to study and go do something else he liked instead.

    I have noticed that your uber-multi-mega billionaires disproportionately had decidedly wealthy individuals for parents — not impoverished weavers.

    The two I noted above, “Bezos or Buffett who come from solidly middle-class backgrounds,” Jeff’s adoptive father was an Exxon engineer and Warren’s was a stock broker who became a Nebraska congressman. Neither was wealthy, though certainly not impoverished like Carnegie.

    that doesn’t mean it’s easily changed or even that it should be changed.

    Why not? There’s a large spectrum between forcing change on someone to completely leaving them alone. I think they should be offered the opportunity to change, whether by their paying for tuition or working apprenticeships at lower pay, which they can turn down or accept as they please. Of course, I would do away with all affirmative action and other government inducements, whether to help the entrenched or the outsiders.

    After all, they knew how much rice they needed. Why work to grow more?

    I mean, if that’s all they really needed and they gained back half their time for other pursuits, it sounds like the program worked. Who are we to decide the best use of the new seeds for them?

    Most people — absent acute misery or total social upheaval — will just do about what their parents did.

    That’s a crucial caveat: we live in a century of constant technology-driven social upheaval, so I’m not sure it’s even “most people” at this point, at least in the first world. You’re right that their wealth percentile and some such other rank metrics will mostly be similar to their ancestors, but their lives are fairly different, whether the work they do or how they live.

    There’s nothing unfair about it, nor does it need to be fixed.

    This is a completely different topic than what we started off with. Suffice to repeat that thie has largely changed in the first world and is spreading in the third world now too.

    Getting back to the original point I disputed, the “show winners” of human wealth are actually largely the result of “crossing all the animals who were never in the show” now, as the rich largely get that way because of drive today, which is more likely in those who were born out of the show, and who happen to have been born with enough intelligence.

  177. @slumber_j
    @JimB

    Harvard's a lot more engineer-y than it used to be. Imagine a terrified Harvard trying its hardest to be Stanford so as not to "fall behind" its upstart west-coast rival: that's what's been going on for about a decade now, and they've thrown tons of resources at it.

    Replies: @JimB

    Harvard’s a lot more engineer-y than it used to be. Imagine a terrified Harvard trying its hardest to be Stanford so as not to “fall behind” its upstart west-coast rival: that’s what’s been going on for about a decade now, and they’ve thrown tons of resources at it.

    Perhaps so, but less than 18% of their students receive STEM degrees, and that makes them a liberal arts university. Stanford is Harvard’s competitor in professional programs and pure sciences, not engineering. And MIT has taught Harvard the futility of trying to compete in engineering.

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